* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:05] THERE YOU GO. AND THERE, IT SOUNDS ABOUT RIGHT. I SEE 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. UM, SO, UH, UNLESS, UH, THERE'S ANYTHING THAT NEEDS TO BE DISCUSSED ON THE FRONT END. I AM HAPPY TO JUST START FORMALLY OUR MEETING. UM, ARE WE, ARE WE GOOD TO GO, LYNN? I'M NOT, UH, I ALWAYS ASK FOR YOU'RE ALL CLEAR. WE'RE GOOD TO GO. YES. YES. OKAY, GREAT. AND GOOD EVENING, EVERYONE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE. MY NAME IS LOUIS SILVER ON, I AM CHAIR OF THE CITY OF BOSTON ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION, AND I CALL THE ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION MEETING TO ORDER IT'S JULY 14TH. AND THE TIME IS 6:08 PM. COMMISSION COMMISSIONERS ARE ATTENDING THIS MEETING VIRTUALLY VIA A WEBEX AND THIS MEETING IS BEING RECORDED. SO I'M GOING TO CALL THE ROLL. PLEASE UNMUTE YOUR PHONES OR YOUR COMPUTERS. ANSWER OUT LOUD, YOUR NAME, AND THEN MUTE YOUR DEVICE ONCE YOU'VE SAID HERE OR PRESENT. SO I'M GOING TO GO IN THE ORDER. IT APPEARS ON THE AGENDA. SHARE SOBER ON PRESENT. VICE-CHAIR OVER HERE. OKAY. SECRETARY LERNER IS ABSENT COMMISSIONER DANBURG HERE. COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, COMMISSIONER KALE HERE. MISSIONARY LAURIE LOOKS LIKE IT'S ABSENT. UM, COMMISSIONER LEVIN, PRESIDENT COMMISSIONER MCCORMICK, COMMISSIONER STANTON PRESENT, AND THEN COMMISSIONER ATTENDANT. YOU READY? WE HAVE A QUORUM THAT IS QUITE A WORD THESE DAYS. I'M GLAD TO SEE EVERYONE HERE. UM, SO FIRST STEP WE HAVE CITIZENS COMMUNICATION, UM, BECAUSE NO ONE'S SIGNED [1.EXECUTIVE SESSION] UP. WE CAN MOVE STRAIGHT TO OUR FIRST ITEM ON THE AGENDA, WHICH IS TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION. LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHTENED OUT. ONE MOMENT. IF YOU'LL GIVE ME A SECOND TO PULL UP THE MAGIC CLOSED SESSION WORDS. ALL RIGHT. WELL THAT DIDN'T WORK. APOLOGIES COMMISSIONERS. I THOUGHT I HAD IT RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME AND BACKED THAT. LET'S SEE. I SHOULD HAVE A BACKUP. OKAY, HERE WE GO. SO HONOR, AGENDA ITEM ONE. WITHOUT OBJECTION. THE ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION WILL GO INTO CLOSED SESSION TO TAKE UP ONE ITEM PURSUANT TO SECTION 5, 5, 1 0.07. ONE OF THE TEXAS GOVERNMENT CODE. THE ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION WILL CONSULT WITH LEGAL COUNSEL ON LEGAL ISSUES. RELATED TO THE FOLLOWING COMMISSION MAY GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION TO DISCUSS A COMPLAINT FILED BY JOSEPH CASINO AGAINST OTTO SWINDLER, WHICH COMPLAINT ALLEGES VIOLATIONS OF CITY CODE CHAPTER TWO DASH TWO, CAMPAIGN FINANCE SECTIONS 2 2 2 3 2 AND 2, 2 3, 2 B AND A TWO TO THREE THREE. IS THERE ANY OBJECTION TO GOING INTO AN EXECUTIVE SESSION ON THE ITEMS ANNOUNCED, LOOKING AROUND, SEEING AND HEARING NONE. THE COMMISSIONER WILL NOW GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION. THE TIME IS 6:12 PM UH, COMMISSIONERS. YOU WILL, UH, EXIT THIS MEETING IN JOINED THE MEETING VIA THE OTHER LINK THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE EMAIL PROVIDED EARLIER TODAY. AND I WILL SEE YOU ALL ON THE OTHER SIDE. I THINK WE'RE JUST WAITING ON COMMISSIONER A YUCA, UM, [00:05:03] WHILE WE'RE WAITING ON HER TO POP ON, I'M JUST GONNA, UH, QUICKLY CHECK, UH, THE CONNECTION FOR THE PARTIES FOR THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM. OUR FINAL HEARING, UH, MR. CASINO AND MR. SWINDLER, ARE YOU HERE? FEEL FREE TO UNMUTE YOURSELVES AND SAY HERE? YES. MR. JEREMY, ERIC. GREAT. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER ATTENDANT. YOU CAN NOW WANTED TO MAKE SURE THERE WEREN'T TECHNICAL ISSUES BEFORE WE STARTED. UM, ONCE THEY SEE COMMISSIONER TENNEY UCAS CAMERA POP-UP I WILL BRING US FORMALLY BACK IN OPEN SESSION. HELLO. GREAT. [2. FINAL HEARING Discussion and possible action regarding the following: A complaint filed by Joseph Cascino against Otto Swingler, which complaint allegesviolations of City Code Chapter 2-2 (Campaign Finance), Section 2-2-32 (Reporting of Direct Campaign Expenditures), Section 2-2-32(B), and Section 2-2-33 (Disclosure Statement Required).] OKAY. SO WE ARE NOW OUT OF CLOSED SESSION. THE TIME IS 7:03 PM. IN CLOSED SESSION. WE TOOK UP AND DISCUSSED LEGAL ISSUES RELATED TO A COMPLAINT FILED BY JOSEPH CASINO AGAINST OUT OF SPRINKLER, WHICH COMPLAINT ALLEGES VIOLATIONS OF CITY CODE SECTIONS 2, 2 32 TO 2 32 B AND 2, 2 33. SO NOW THAT WE ARE BACK IN OUR OPEN SESSION, WE CAN MOVE ON TO ITEM TWO ON THE AGENDA, WHICH IS THE FINAL HEARING BY JOSEPH CASINO GUN START-UP SPRINKLER THAT I JUST DESCRIBED. UM, SO I WILL ASK EACH OF THE PARTIES, COMPLAINANT, AND RESPONDENT TO SIMPLY ANNOUNCE THEMSELVES STATE YOUR NAME, UM, AS APPEARING. UM, AND THEN I'M GOING TO, UH, DESCRIBE OUR FINAL HEARING PROCEDURES. SO FIRST COMPLAINANT, UM, IF YOU COULD ANNOUNCE YOURSELF, UH, YOUR NAME, UH, COMPLAINANT HERE, UH, JOSEPH CASINO. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AND RESPONDENT, IF YOU COULD ANNOUNCE YOURSELF, PLEASE. YEAH. HI, UH, AUTO SWINDLER HERE. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU BOTH VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE. UM, I'M GOING TO DO A OVERVIEW OF THE PROCEDURES. UM, I BELIEVE THAT EACH OF YOU PRIOR TO THE FINAL HEARING RECEIVED A COPY OF THE RULES OF THE COMMISSION, UM, AND HOW WE CONDUCT THESE HEARINGS AND, UH, AN OUTLINE OF WHAT THOSE PROCEDURES ARE, BUT FOR THE BENEFIT OF EVERYONE HERE, UM, I WILL DO A WALK. SO THIS IS A FINAL HEARING UNDER THE CITY CODE SECTION 2 7 4 5, WHICH, UH, SETS FORTH OUR PROCEDURES, THE SIGNS COMPLAINING IT'S AUTO SWINDLER WAS FILED WITH THE CITY CLERK IN ACCORDANCE WITH SECTION 2 74 ONES. SO THE EXCEPTION OF THE IDENTIFICATION OF A DATE ON ONE OF THE VIOLATION FORMS GROUP PAGES, UH, PRELIMINARY HEARING WAS PREVIOUSLY HELD WHERE THE COMMISSION DETERMINED THAT REASONABLE GROUNDS, IT MAY EXIST TO BELIEVE THEIR VIOLATION WITHIN THE COMMISSION'S JURISDICTION, DID OCCUR AND PROCEED TO A FINAL HEARING. THE ISSUE AT THE FINAL HEARING IS WHETHER A VIOLATION WITHIN THE COMMISSION'S JURISDICTION HAS THE COMPLAINANT CARRIES THE BURDEN OF PROOF TO ESTABLISH A VIOLATION. THE COMMISSION WILL MAKE ITS DECISION BASED ON THE PREPONDERANCE OF THE CREDIBLE EVIDENCE PRESENTED BY THE PARTY. THE COMMISSION WILL ALSO CONSIDER THE ADMISSIONS, IF ANY OF THE RESPONDENTS SWINGER, IF THE RESPONDENT AGREES THAT A VIOLATION HAS OCCURRED, THE RESPONDENT MAY SO STATE AND THE COMMISSION MAY CONSIDER THE APPROPRIATE SANCTION OR PROSECUTION. THE COMPLAINANT HAS THE RIGHT TO OPEN AND CLOSE THE PRESENTATION OF EVIDENCE AND ARGUMENT RESPONDENTS MAY, BUT IT'S NOT REQUIRED TO PRESENT AN ARGUMENT, PRESENT EVIDENCE AND ARGUMENT SUPPORTING ITS DEFENSE. THE COMPLAINANT MAY BE PERMITTED TO PRESENT A REBUTTAL EVIDENCE ON ANY DEFENSE RAISED IN THE FIRST RESPONDENTS PRESENTATION. THE CHAIR HAS THE OPTION OF ALLOWING THE PARTIES TO PRESENT SHORT CLOSING STATEMENTS, SUMMARIZING THE EVIDENCE AND WHAT THE PARTIES BELIEVE THE EVIDENCE PROVE OR FAILED. WE'RE GOING TO BEGIN WITH OPENING STATEMENTS. THE COMPLAINANT IS GOING TO BE ALLOWED 10 MINUTES TO ADDRESS AND EXPLAIN ALL THE ALLEGATIONS IN THE COMPLAINT AND RESPONDENT OR COUNSEL WOULD BE ALLOWED 10 MINUTES TO RESPOND. THEN ALL WITNESSES, THE COMPLAINANT AND RESPONDENT MUST MAKE THEIR STATEMENTS UNDER OATH. THE COMMISSION MAY ALSO ASK QUESTIONS OF THE COMPLAINANT RESPONDENT OR ANY OTHER WITNESSES PRESENT. UM, THE PARTIES ARE INSTRUCTED TO RESPOND TO QUESTIONS AND TO REFRAIN FROM INTERJECTING COMMENTS OR INTERRUPTING THE CONDITIONERS OR THE OTHER PARTIES, PRESENTATION OF EVIDENCE, THE CHAIR REQUESTS THAT, UH, ANY QUESTIONS, UM, NOT LEAD A WITNESS, WE'D ACTUALLY DON'T HAVE WITNESSES. I DON'T BELIEVE SO. I'M GOING TO SKIP THAT PART. UM, THEN AFTER THE PRESENTATION OF EVIDENCE, THE COMMISSION WILL DELIBERATE AND COME TO A DECISION. AND THEN IF THE COMMISSION DETERMINES THAT ONE OR MORE OF THE VIOLATIONS AS OCCURRED, THE COMMISSION IS GOING TO STATE THE COMMISSION'S FINDINGS AND WRITINGS AND IDENTIFY EACH CODE SECTION OR CHARTER [00:10:01] PROVISION THAT BEEN VIOLATED. AND IF WE DETERMINED THAT A VIOLATION HAS OCCURRED, UM, WE'LL PROCEED TO A DETERMINATION OF APPROPRIATE SANCTIONS IN ACCORDANCE WITH CITY CODE SECTION TWO DASH 7 4 8 2 DASH 7 4 9. UM, SO, UH, UNLESS THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS WE'LL PROCEED TO THE OPENING STATEMENT. I DID WANT TO KIND OF MAKE A BRIEF COMMENT BEFORE WE DO GO TO THE OPENING STATEMENTS IS JUST BIG PICTURE. HOW, UM, THE PROCEEDINGS GOING TO GO. SO 10 MINUTES FOR THE COMPLAINANT, 10 MINUTES FOR THE RESPONDENT, IT IS YOUR CHOICE TO ON HOW YOU USE THAT TIME. AS I EXPLAINED, THERE'S OPPORTUNITY FOR REBUTTAL. UM, IF YOU WANTED TO, UH, SAVE SOME OF YOUR TIME TO HAVE ADDITIONAL COMMENTS AT THE END OF ONE OF THE PRESENTATIONS. UM, AND THEN AFTER THAT, UH, WE'LL OPEN THE FLOOR FOR COMMISSIONERS TO HAVE A Q AND A PERIOD. UM, I'M GOING TO RESPECTFULLY ASK, IT'S NOT A WRITTEN REQUIREMENT IN OUR ROLES, BUT I'M GOING TO RESPECTFULLY ASK THAT WE LIMITED TO ABOUT 20 MINUTES AND I'M GOING TO ASK OUR TIMEKEEPER TO KIND OF HOLD US TO THAT. UM, AND THEN AFTER OUR Q AND A PERIOD, I WILL ASK IF WE HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS AND I'LL GIVE A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME FOR PEOPLE TO THINK REALLY HARD. UM, BUT THEN WE'LL MOVE TO DELIBERATIONS AT WHICH POINT QUESTIONS FOR THE PARTIES ARE GOING TO BE OVER AND WE'LL DISCUSS, UH, THAT'LL BE THE TIME WHERE WE CAN OPENLY DISCUSS THIS COMPLAINT AND ANY MOTIONS WE MIGHT TO MAKE CRYSTAL QUICK, ANY QUESTIONS, UM, BEFORE WE JUMP IN AND QUESTIONS FROM THE PARTIES TO, UH, PROCEDURAL QUESTIONS, HAPPY TO TAKE. OKAY. SEEING HEARING NONE, THEN I'M GOING TO RECOGNIZE THE COMPLAINANT, MR. CASINO, IF YOU WANT TO STATE YOUR NAME AGAIN. UM, AND THEN WHENEVER YOU GET STARTED WITH YOUR STATEMENT, I BELIEVE OUR SECRETARY WILL START A TIMER FOR 10 MINUTES. SO WHENEVER YOU ARE READY, MR. CASINO, THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. UH, THIS IS JOE CASINO, THE COMPLAINANT, UH, APPRECIATE YOU AND ALL THE MEMBERS OF THIS COMMISSION, UM, TAKING THIS UP AND, UM, GIVING IT THE SERIOUSNESS THAT IT REQUIRES. UM, I WON'T TAKE 10 MINUTES. I PROBABLY WON'T EVEN TAKE FIVE AT RISK OF BEATING A DEAD HORSE, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, IN MY VIEW, A GO-FUND ME WAS SET UP WITH THE INTENT OF RAISING, UM, $30,000 FOR PRO PROPERTY BILLBOARDS. UM, ON THIS SITE, UH, THERE WAS NO DISCLOSURE STATEMENT AND DURING HERS WERE LISTED AS ANONYMOUS. UM, THIS IS AN APPARENT VIOLATION OF SECTIONS TWO DASH TWO DASH 32, 2 DASH TWO DASH 33 OF THE CITY'S CODES, CAMPAIGN FINANCE AND STATE LAW. UM, THIS GO FUND ME WAS THE ACTIVATED BY THE ORGANIZER AFTER REACHING ITS $30,000 GOAL. UM, SO I, AS, AS I KNOW, THE COMMITTEE ASKED ME TO TRY AND MAKE A GOOD FAITH EFFORT, UM, TO FIND A COPY OF THAT ORIGINAL, UH, PAGE, WHICH I DID, UH, BUT I WAS NOT ABLE TO, UM, TO, TO, TO FIND IT, BUT I DID MAKE THE EFFORT FOR SURE. UM, BUT NONETHELESS, UM, THERE IS A SCREENSHOT WHICH I'VE SUBMITTED, UM, AS EVIDENCE THAT SHOWS THAT THE $30,000 GOAL WAS RAISED, BUT THAT THE FUNDRAISER WAS, UM, DEACTIVATED. UM, AND THOUGH NOW 4 0 4, UM, IF IT'S GOOGLED THE DESCRIPTION STILL SAYS THAT THE LEAD ORGANIZER, MR. SWINDLER, SOME $10,000, HIS OWN UNREPORTED MONEY INTO THE PROJECT, UM, AT THE HEARING LAST MONTH, IT WAS FLAMED. THE MONEY RAISED WAS DONATED TO SAVE AUSTIN NOW IN MR. SWINDLERS NAME, UM, ON THE ADVICE OF COUNSEL, UM, UH, I HAVE RE I HAVE ATTACHED, UM, SAVE AUSTIN NOW'S LAST REPORT, WHICH WAS FILED ON APRIL THE 23RD. UH, MR. SWINDLERS NAME IS ON PAGE 190, UM, LISTED AS HAVING DONATED, UH, I BELIEVE $9,844, UM, WHICH, UM, WOULDN'T ACCOUNT FOR THE OTHER 30,000 THAT, UM, THAT SCREENSHOT ALLEGES WAS, OR I MEAN, STATES WAS RAISED. UM, AND, UH, W WOULD ALSO JUST ADD, I MEAN, THAT ALSO IS CLOSE TO $10,000, UM, AND MAYBE THAT'S WHAT MR. SPANGLER WAS REFERRING TO IF MR. SWINDLER CAN PRODUCE, UH, THE NAMES AND OCCUPATIONS OF ALL THE PEOPLE WHO HAD DONATED, UM, YOU KNOW, IN, IN, UM, TO THE GOFUND ME, UM, IN HIS EVIDENCE, WHICH, UH, WAS NOT SHARED WITH ME BEFOREHAND, FOR REASONS I DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND. UM, BUT NONETHELESS, UM, UM, I MEAN THAT MONEY, I THINK, SHOULD HAVE BEEN RETURNED TO ITS DONORS WE'LL STOP. UM, YOU KNOW, AND THERE WERE SOME CONTRADICTORY ANSWERS, UH, THAT BOTH SWINDLER AND HIS COUNSEL GAVE LAST TIME AROUND AS TO WHETHER OR NOT HE DONATED TO THE GOFUNDME ITSELF HIMSELF, AND AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS EXPRESSED ADVOCACY. UM, HE ADMITTED [00:15:01] TO HAVING WRITTEN THAT HE HAD DONATED $10,000, UM, BUT STATED THAT IT WAS A LIE AS A MARKETING PLOY. UM, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I, I, WE JUST KIND OF NEED TO KNOW WHERE THE $30,000 NUMBER COMES FROM WHERE THAT MONEY WENT. UM, AND I MEAN, I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, UM, I MEAN, I, I SUBMITTED EVIDENCE, UM, ALL THAT HAS BEEN REQUESTED OF ME, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, AGAIN, THE $9,844 ON PAGE 190 THAT MR. SWINDLERS DONATION WAS, UM, YOU KNOW, THE SCREENSHOT THAT STATES THAT $30,000 GOAL HAD BEEN RAISED. UM, THE LINE THAT STATES HE HAD SPENT $10,000 WAS OWED MONEY. AND, UM, I ALSO INCLUDED THE LINK TO THE GOFUNDME TERMS OF SERVICE AS REQUESTED. UM, BUT ALSO JUST TO KIND OF SAVE MONEY, I WOULD SAY AT THE TIME, EXCUSE ME, UM, FOR EVERYBODY READING IT, UM, YOU KNOW, THE ONE LINE I COULD FIND ABOUT POLITICAL CONTRIBUTIONS, UH, WAS QUOTE, YOU WILL COMPLY WITH ALL RELEVANT AND APPLICABLE LAW AND FINANCIAL REPORTING OBLIGATIONS, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO LAWS AND REGULATIONS RELATING TO REGISTRATION, TAX, REPORTING, POLITICAL CONTRIBUTIONS AND ASSET DISCLOSURES FOR YOUR PROJECT, UM, BY MR. SWINDLERS OWN ADMISSION LAST TIME AROUND, UM, HE BELIEVED THAT, YOU KNOW, UM, YOU KNOW, AND HE ON THE ADVICE OF COUNSEL WAS GOING TO TURN OVER THE NAMES AND, AND THE DONATIONS TO SAVE AUSTIN. NOW, UM, IF THAT HAD HAPPENED AGAIN, IT REMAINS YET TO BE SEEN, BUT LIKE EVEN SO, UM, IT WAS IN VIOLATION OF, OF THE GOFUNDME TERMS OF SERVICE. SO, UM, THAT'S REALLY ALL I HAVE TO SAY. I MEAN, WE'VE, WE'VE DISCUSSED THIS FOR A VERY LONG TIME AND, UM, YOU KNOW, I LOOK FORWARD TO, TO FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS ISSUE, SO THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. CASINO. UM, NOW, UH, LET'S, UH, JUST GET FROM THE SECRETARY, HOW MUCH TIME IS REMAINING IN CASE YOU WANT TO USE IT BRIEFLY ON MUTE YOURSELF, SECRETARY LEARNER, UH, GIVE US A MINUTE, UH, ROUGHLY 5 25, 20 25. OKAY. THANK YOU SO MUCH. AND NOW, UM, FOR THE RESPONDENT, UM, IF YOU COULD STATE YOUR NAME, INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND THEN, UH, FEEL FREE TO BEGIN YOUR 10 MINUTES OF STATEMENT WHENEVER YOU LIKE, AND THE SECRETARY KEEP THE TIME. SO IT IS TWO, YOU RESPONDED. SURE. YEAH. THIS IS A AUTO SWINDLER. AND, UM, YEAH, I, UH, WOULD JUST RESPOND THAT THE DISCLOSURE STATEMENT, I GUESS, KIND OF GOING DOWN THE LIST OF WHAT, UH, JOE MENTIONED THE DISCLOSURE STATEMENT, UM, WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN PUT ON THE GO FUND ME BECAUSE, UM, THE, UH, TH THAT WASN'T POLITICAL ADVERTISING PERIOD, SO NO DISCLOSURE STATEMENT IS NEEDED. I DON'T THINK THAT, THAT THE GO FUND ME HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THAT TWO, TWO DASH 33. THERE WAS A VERY CLEAR, UM, DISCLOSURE STATEMENT PUT ON THE BILLBOARDS, UH, THAT SAID, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT, UM, THIS WHOLE, THIS WHOLE, UM, THING, IT WAS PREDICATED ON TRYING TO FOLLOW THE, UH, VERY COMPLICATED, UH, POLITICAL CONTRIBUTION LAWS THAT I FOUND OUT WERE IN PLACE, YOU KNOW, KIND OF HALFWAY THROUGH RAISING THIS MONEY ON GIVE FUND ME. AND SO I WENT TO PAINSTAKING EFFORTS COORDINATING WITH THE SAVE AS TO NOW COUNCIL TO MAKE SURE WE FOLLOWED THE RULES. THE FACT THAT WE STILL DID NOT FOLLOW THE RULES. I, I, FRANKLY I'M PERPLEXED. UM, WE, YOU KNOW, MADE SURE THAT ALL THE MONEY THAT WAS RAISED WAS GIVEN TO SAVE AUSTIN NOW SAVE AWESOME OUTPUT, YOU KNOW, POLITICAL ADVERTISING PAID FOR BY SAY BOSTON NOW. AND IT WAS TO THE TREASURER'S NAME. IT WAS ON EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE BILLBOARDS WAS, YOU KNOW, 25 OF THESE AROUND TOWN. UM, THE REASON THAT NO, OF THE, NONE OF THE DONORS ON MY GO FUND ME PAGE WERE LISTED UNTIL AFTER THIS. UM, YOU KNOW, WITH THESE, ALL THESE CALLS WAS, I WAS THE ONE WHO DONATED THE MONEY TO SAY LESS THAN AN HOUR. UM, I PROVIDED WEN WITH, UH, PROOF OF THE RECEIPT, UH, LIKE, LIKE MY RECEIPT OF THE MONEY THAT WAS RAISED. AND I THINK IT WAS LIKE 29,700 LEN CAN CERTAINLY CONFIRM OR SHARE THAT CHAIRED THE, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, SHARE WHAT I SENT HER IF SHE WANTS. UM, AND THAT MATCHES, I THINK, I THINK IT'S OFF BY A FEW HUNDRED BUCKS AND I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHY, BUT IT MATCHES VERY CLOSELY TO THE EXACT, UH, DONOR, UH, CONTRACTS TOTAL, UH, THAT I HAD PROVIDED SAVE AUSTIN NOW BACK. YEAH. IN, UH, EITHER LATE MAY OR EARLY JUNE. AND I CAN'T REMEMBER WHEN, BUT, UM, THE, THE, ALL THE DONOR'S NAMES ADDRESS PLACES OF WORK AMOUNTS CONTRIBUTED WERE ALL TRACKED. UM, SO THAT'S BEEN SHARED WITH, WITH LYNN AS WELL. UM, SO I GUESS FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, [00:20:01] YOU KNOW, STARTING TO GO FUND ME AS A CONCERNED CITIZEN, I'VE NEVER BEEN POLITICALLY ACTIVE PERIOD THOUGHT THIS WAS A VERY IMPORTANT, YOU KNOW, NOT A LOT OF ATTENTION GETS RAISED TO THESE LOCAL ELECTIONS. UM, AND, AND FRANKLY, THAT IS NOT, NOT A LOT OF VOTER TURNOUT. UM, TYPICALLY SPEAKING, UM, I, YOU KNOW, THIS HAS BEEN A PAINSTAKING PROCESS, UM, $2,500 INTO THIS AND MY ATTORNEY, WHICH IS WHY HE'S NOT ON THIS CALL ANYMORE, BECAUSE IT'S BEEN A VERY COSTLY FROM A TIME PERSPECTIVE AND, UM, JUST DOLLARS TOO. I FEEL LIKE I DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG. AND WE WENT TO GREAT LENGTHS TO TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL THE BILLBOARDS HAD THE DISCLOSURE STATEMENT AND IT WAS NEEDED. UM, YOU KNOW, I DONATED THROUGH THE SAVE AUSTIN MT. PORTAL, ALL THE MONEY THAT I HAD RAISED, YOU KNOW, WHEN ASKED, I IMMEDIATELY GAVE ALL THE NAMES FROM THE GO FUND, ME TUESDAY, BOSTON NOW, UM, OVER SIX WEEKS AGO, SEVEN WEEKS AGO AT THIS POINT, UM, THOSE NAMES AND THE AMOUNTS HAVE BEEN SHARED WITH WHEN, UH, AS REQUESTED, UM, YOU KNOW, QUITE, QUITE HONESTLY, I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE. YOU KNOW, WE'RE IN THE 12TH HOUR OF TALKING ABOUT THIS. UM, I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHAT I DID WRONG. SO I GUESS I WOULD JUST ASK, ASK THE GROUP, UM, YOU KNOW, I I'VE SORT OF FEEL LIKE I'M BEING PENALIZED FOR WANTING TO BE AN ACTIVE MEMBER OF THE, THE CITY I GREW UP IN AND, YOU KNOW, QUITE FRANKLY, IT'S VERY UNMOTIVATING TO EVER PARTICIPATE IN A CITY ELECTION PERIOD GOING FORWARD. AND SO I GUESS I WOULD JUST ASK FOR SOMEONE TO TELL ME, HEY, WHAT DID I REALLY DO WRONG HERE? AND I'LL, I'LL LEAVE IT AT THAT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SWINDLER, UM, SECRETARY LEARNER, WHAT IS THE TIME LEFT IF WE WANT, UH, I'M FOR CLOSING GRIP, BUT OKAY. 5, 5 55. THANK YOU. SO, ALL RIGHT. UM, SO I'LL GIVE A BRIEF OPPORTUNITY, UH, MR. CASINO, IF YOU WANT, UH, UH, REBUTTAL TIME, YOU FIVE MINUTES AND 22 SECONDS LEFT, UM, OR WE CAN PROCEED STRAIGHT TO Q AND A, AND THEN, UH, IF YOU, IF YOU DO OFFER REBUTTAL, MR. CHRISTINA, I'M GOING TO GIVE MR. SPANGLER AN OPPORTUNITY TO KIND OF CLOSE OUT THAT TIME, BUT, UM, JUST WANTED TO GIVE IT TO YOU MR. CASINO, ANY, ANY ADDITIONAL STATEMENTS IN REBUTTAL? OKAY, JEREMY, I, I WOULD JUST, UM, BRIEFLY ADD THAT. UM, I MEAN, IT WAS VERY CLEARLY A POLITICAL AD IN STATEMENT. I MEAN, THE TITLE OF THE PAGE WAS, UM, REINSTATE AUSTIN, CAMPING BAN SAVE OUR CITY, WHICH WAS THE ISSUE ON THE BALLOT OF PROPERTY. I BELIEVE THAT REQUIRED, UM, SOME SORT OF DISCLOSURE STATEMENT. AND, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, JUST TO READ AGAIN, SECTION TWO DASH TWO DASH 32 SECTION EIGHT, SAYS THAT A PERSON WHO MAKES ONE OR MORE DIRECT CAMPAIGN EXPENDITURES AND A CITY ELECTION THAT AN AGGREGATE MEET OR EXCEED $500 SHALL REPORT, YOU KNOW, FULL NAME AND ADDRESS OF THE PERSON. UM, YOU KNOW, IF THE PERSON WHO MAKES THE EXPENDITURES INDIVIDUAL IT'S THEIR OCCUPATION, EMPLOYER, OR FULL NAME AND ADDRESS ALL, ALL OF THAT. I MEAN, IT'S ALL, IT'S ALL IN THE CODE. AND I MEAN, EVEN IF IT WAS IN MR SWINDLERS NAME, THEN, YOU KNOW, UM, I MEAN, IT, IT, IT, IT NEEDED TO HAVE THE, I MEAN, I'M SURE MORE PEOPLE, PEOPLE DONATED OVER $500, YOU KNOW? I MEAN, IT, IT JUST, IT JUST, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK IT'S IN LINE WITH, WITH THE CODE, SO THAT'S ALL I WOULD HAVE TO SAY. OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UM, THEN MR. SWINDLER, I'LL GIVE YOU AN OPPORTUNITY. YOU HAVE SIX MINUTES, THE SPECIFIC VIOLATION THAT I BELIEVE I'M ABSOLUTELY MOST CLEAR ON. UM, WE SPENT NO MONEY PERIOD CREATING A FREE TO MAKE, GO FUND ME PAGE. AND SO I WANT TO BE REALLY CLEAR THAT THE, THE, THE REASON THAT YOU WANT TO HAVE A DISCLOSURE STATEMENT IS YOU DON'T WANT, YOU KNOW, ONE VERY WEALTHY OR EXTRAORDINARILY WEALTHY CITIZEN OR INDIVIDUAL OR COMPANY TO BE ABLE TO SWAY ELECTIONS. AND I TOTALLY GET THAT. UM, IT WOULDN'T, IT WOULDN'T BE FAIR FOR, FOR A BILLIONAIRE TO JUST PAINT EVERY BUILDING, YOU KNOW? YES. THIS WAY. UH, AND I UNDERSTAND WHY THE DISCLOSURE WOULD BE NEEDED. THAT IS FOR WHEN YOU'RE SPENDING MONEY. JUST TO BE CRYSTAL CLEAR. IF I, IF I WANT TO GO SCREAM, WHEN EVERY CORNER OF THE STREET WHO I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD VOTE FOR THAT'S FREE SPEECH, GO FUND ME, CHARGE ME $0 TO, TO CREATE THIS AT IT. WASN'T AN AD. IT WAS A, A REQUEST TO RAISE MONEY. SO, FIRST OF ALL, IT WASN'T AN AD. SECOND OF ALL, UH, WE DIDN'T SPEND ANY MONEY. SO NO, JUST THE DISCLOSURE STATEMENT IS SPECIFICALLY FOR WHEN YOU'RE SPENDING MONEY FOR POLITICAL, UH, ADVERTISEMENT. AND SO SINCE WE SPENT $0 WHERE BOTH MYSELF AND THE ATTORNEY THAT WAS HELPING ME WITH THIS, WE ARE CRYSTAL CLEAR THAT WE DID NOT PILATE THIS, THIS DISRESPECT LETTER IS STILL THERE. IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'VE GOT [00:25:01] IT. YOU GOT A LITTLE CUT OFF. OKAY. I WAS TRYING TO FOLLOW THE RULES ON THIS. I DONATED TO SAVE AUSTIN ALLEN. THEY PUT THE DISCLOSURE STATEMENT THAT THEY NEEDED TO HAVE SINCE THEY PURCHASED THE BILLBOARDS, UM, AND PUT THEM ON, YOU KNOW, ON THERE, WE TRY TO FOLLOW THE RULES. SO I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW THAT JOE YOU'RE REQUIRED UNDERSTANDING THAT THE CODE THERE IS NO MONEY WAS SPENT. UM, THAT'S THE ONLY REASON THAT DISCLOSURE STATEMENTS MADE IT. I CAN MAKE A FREE SIGN IN ST ON THE STREET CORNER WITH IT. AND THERE'S CERTAINLY NO, JUST GO. YOUR STATEMENT NEEDED, UM, I DON'T KNOW, FEW A FREE POSTING, JUST LIKE A FACEBOOK POST OR AN INSTAGRAM OR A TWEET OR A GO FUND ME POSTS. IT'S FREE TO CREATE. THERE'S NO DISCLOSURE STATEMENT NEEDED TO DO THAT. I'M DONE SAME ON TIME FOR LATER. OKAY. WELL THAT IS, SO I APPRECIATE THAT. UM, SO, UH, THOSE ARE THE STATEMENTS, AND NOW I'M GOING TO OPEN IT UP FOR Q AND A, UM, FROM OUR COMMISSIONERS. SO, LIKE I SAID, COMMISSIONERS, I'M GOING TO SET ASIDE ABOUT 20 MINUTES. IT'S ABOUT 7 24. NOW I'LL TRY TO KEEP AN EYE ON THE CLOCK MYSELF. I'M GONNA RELY ON MY SECRETARY TO DO MOST OF THE TIMEKEEPING. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE PRECISELY 20 MINUTES. UM, IT'S JUST, UH, A FRIENDLY REQUEST. AND I SEE COMMISSIONER GREENBERG WITH HER HAND UP FIRST. SO COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, GO AHEAD. SO I HAVE QUESTIONS FOR MR. SWINDLER. UM, THE GO FUND ME TERMS OF SERVICE, SAY, UM, THE CAMPAIGN ORGANIZER, YOU AS A CAMPAIGN ORGANIZER REPRESENT WARRANT AND COVENANT, THAT ALL INFORMATION YOU PROVIDE IN CONNECTION WITH THE CAMPAIGN OR BENEFICIARY IS ACCURATE, COMPLETE, AND NOT LIKELY TO DECEIVE REASONABLE USERS. DID YOU ADHERE TO THAT REQUIREMENT? YEAH, I MEAN, I'M SURE I DIDN'T READ THE GO-FUND ME, UM, UH, RULES AND REGULATIONS AS A POSITIVE THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE EVER USED GO FROM ME HAVE NOT READ THEM. BUT, UM, I, I, I THINK THAT, THAT THE MAJORITY OF WHAT I WROTE WAS FROM MY HEART THAT, HEY, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A BIG DEAL TO OUR CITY. UM, THIS, THIS LAW THAT THE COUNCIL HAD EVER TURNED WITHOUT VOTER APPROVAL IS QUITE FRANKLY, RUINED IT OVER THE PAST 18 MONTHS. LIKE, LET'S DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS. LET'S, LET'S RAISE SOME MONEY AND LET'S PUT THESE BILLBOARDS UP AND LET'S JUST TRY TO GET PEOPLE TO THE POLLS. YOU I'M SURE CERTAIN PEOPLE MORE THAN I ASKED. OH, OKAY. GOTCHA. BUT, UM, WITH ONLY 20 MINUTES FOR Q AND A, I THINK WE WANT TO JUST STICK TO ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS. OKAY. IS MY, IS MY READING OF, OF DETAILED 30 PAGE DISCLOSURE LANGUAGE ON GET A FUND TO BE RELEVANT TO THIS? JUST TO BE CLEAR, I'M JUST ASKING IT'S THE 20 MINUTES. UM, JUST ASK, NOBODY'S READ THE DISCLOSURE STATEMENT AND GO FUND ME SINCE IT, SINCE IT WAS WRITTEN. I MEAN, THE C'MON, YOU'RE THE ONE WHO BROUGHT UP THE DISCLOSURE STATEMENT. WHEN YOU SAID THAT THE CONTRIBUTIONS WERE THE PERSONAL PROPERTY OF YOU, THE RECIPIENT. SO YES, WE DID LOOK AT IT, BUT MY CONCERN IS THAT THE PAGE SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED THAT YOU WOULD SPENT YOUR OWN MONEY FOR ARTWORK AND VINYL. UM, WAS THAT ACCURATE, COMPLETE, AND NOT LIKELY TO DECEIVE REASONABLE USERS? WELL, THAT'S, HE IS, AS I EXPLAINED SPECIFICALLY IN OUR LAST SIX HOUR CALL, THE SECOND SIX HOUR CALL, I VERY SPECIFICALLY USE THAT AS THE MARKETING PLOY TO SAY, HEY, I'M GOING TO GET THIS GOING. LIKE, WE'VE GOT A LITTLE BIT OF A WANING IN OUR SALES. LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE KIND OF KICK-STARTING THIS, UM, I VERY SPECIFICALLY ADDRESS THIS. THAT'S ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. I DID NOT, DID NOT SPEND ANY MONEY. UM, I, I WROTE THAT AS LIKE, HEY, IF WE DON'T GET ANYTHING GOING ON, I'M PROBABLY JUST GOING TO WRITE THIS CHECK FOR 10 GRAND MYSELF AND BE HAPPY TO DO THAT FOR A GREAT CAUSE. OKAY. I'LL TAKE THAT AS A NO. UM, SO GO FUND ME SAYS THAT 29, 6 40 WAS RAISED THE DEPOSITS TOTALED 29 98, BUT THE CONTRIBUTIONS ON SAVE AUSTIN NOW, FINANCE REPORT SHOWS $9,844 FROM AUTO SWINDLER. SO WHAT HAPPENED TO THE REST OF THE MONEY? UH, IT WAS ALL DEMANDED TO SAY BOSTON NOW, AND THEY CAN CONFIRM THAT THAT'S NOT MY RESPONSIBILITY TO DO, BUT IT WAS ALL I'LL CONFIRM UNDER OATH THAT I DONATED ALL THE MONEY TO SAVE AUSTIN NOW, PER THE SPREADSHEET I PROVIDED. BUT WHEN I'M DOING ON MONDAY UNDER YOUR NAME, THAT'S CORRECT. YEAH. OKAY. DO YOU KNOW WHO ERIC IS? UH, ERIC IS MY MIDDLE NAME. THAT'S PROBABLY ME. I DUNNO IF I TYPED IN THE BOXES WRONG, BUT, BUT ERIC LIVES AT A DIFFERENT UNIT. NO, ERIC IS MY, LITERALLY MY MIDDLE NAME. IT'S ON MY DRIVER'S LICENSE AND I DON'T, YOU KNOW, MY LAST QUESTION IS KENDALL BROWN AND JOHN HENRY [00:30:01] SWINDLER ARE LISTED ON THE GOFUNDME PAGE AS MEMBERS OF THE FUNDRAISE FUNDRAISING TEAM. YOU KNOW WHO THOSE ARE AS WELL. RIGHT? YEAH. I ADDED THEM AS ADMINISTRATORS TO LIKE, YOU KNOW, HELP OUT. THEY DIDN'T ASK TO BE INVOLVED OR WANTING TO BE INVOLVED THAT HAD NO CHOICE. I JUST SORT OF ADDED THEM ON THERE. SO IT WASN'T REALLY THEIR THING. SO THEY WERE PART OF THE FUNDRAISING TEAM AND THEY WOULD ABSOLUTELY NOT AS WHAT I JUST SAID, YOU JUST CLICK A BUTTON AND YOU CAN ADD WHOEVER YOU WANT TO IT. I JUST ADDED, YOU KNOW, MY BROTHER AND MY GIRLFRIEND. THAT'S, THAT'S MY RELATIONSHIP WITH THOSE TWO PEOPLE. SO AGAIN, ABOUT THE ACCURACY COMPLETENESS, AND NOT LIKELY TO DECEIVE REASONABLE USERS, WHAT ABOUT THAT BOYS NAMES THAT AREN'T REALLY PART OF THE TEAM? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? I ADDED MY GIRLFRIEND AND MY BROTHER TO THE GO FUND ME PAGE IN ORDER FOR THEM TO, YOU KNOW, HELP LIKE SPREAD THE WORD. UM, YOU KNOW, THEY DIDN'T ASK TO BE INVOLVED. THEY'RE LIKE MY TWO CLOSEST PEOPLE TO ME. AND I DON'T, I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE POINT OF NATURE, THIS QUESTION, AND YOU'RE PAINTING ME IN A CORNER. LIKE I'M, I'M, UH, I WAS A CONCERNED CITIZEN. IT RAISED SOME MONEY HALFWAY THROUGH RAISING THE MONEY, DONATED IT TO SAY BOSTON NOW TO TRY TO FOLLOW THE RULES. I MEAN, TO TRY TO PIN ME AS SOMEBODY WHO MALICIOUSLY DIDN'T FOLLOW THE, YOU KNOW, 19 PAGES OF, OF 8.5 AND THE GO-FUND ME PARAGRAPH IS JUST RIDICULOUS. I CAN'T QUITE UNDERSTAND WHY WE WOULD EVEN SPEND A SECOND ON THE SUBJECT. SURE. SO IF ANYBODY'S USED THEIR FUND LEAVING, UH, I'M GOING TO JUST JUMP IN REAL QUICK. UM, I WANT TO MAKE TWO COMMENTS. ONE IS THAT, UM, I HOPE THAT THE QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ARE RESPECTFUL FROM COMMISSIONERS AND PARTIES ALIKE AND TO, UM, JUST AS A GENERAL LINE OF INQUIRY. I'M NOT SURE THAT, UM, UH, QUESTIONING WHETHER OR NOT A PARTIES COMPLIED WITH THE TERMS OF SERVICES ON A WEBSITE IS, UM, PARTICULARLY RELEVANT. WE DON'T HAVE LIKE A SUPER STRICT EVIDENTIARY RELEVANCE RULE, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, I, I JUST WANT TO HAVE THAT, HAVE US BE MINDFUL OF THAT. MOVING FORWARD WITH THAT. I SEE COMMISSIONER KALE, AND THEN GO TO COMMISSIONER DAMPER. SO COMMISSIONER KALE. UM, I JUST, I HAVE ONE QUICK QUESTION FOR MR. SWINDLER. UM, I WAS WONDERING, UM, WHY INSTEAD OF LIKE MAKING ONE LARGE CONTRIBUTION TO SAVE AUSTIN, NOW IT'S IN SEVERAL CHUNKS. SURE. YEAH. I'D BE HAPPY TO EXPLAIN THAT. UM, WE INITIALLY, WHEN THIS WAS GOING TO BE MY THING AND WITH NO INVOLVEMENT OF SAY BOSTON NOW, WHICH WAS, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE THE ORIGINAL INTENT, THE REASON I, THE ONLY REASON TO GIVE THE MONEY TO SAY BOSTON NOW WAS IN AN INTENTION TO TRY TO FOLLOW THE RULES. YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY LET ME KNOW, HEY, YOU'VE GOT TO PUT DISCLOSURE STATEMENTS ON THIS STUFF. AND THEN REALIZING THAT, OH, IF YOU, IF YOU BUY SOMETHING THAT COSTS MORE THAN 500 BUCKS, YOU'VE GOT TO CREATE A PACK. AND THAT COSTS A LOT OF MONEY. IT'S A BUNCH OF PAPERWORK. IT'S A BUNCH OF TIME. I WAS KINDA LIKE, GOSH, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO THAT. THIS IS RIDICULOUS. I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW MUCH WORK GOES INTO CREATING THIS POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE. I'M JUST TRYING TO BUY A FEW BILLBOARDS FROM MY FRIENDS THAT WANTED TO BUY THAT. I'M LIKE, WHY CAN'T WE JUST BUY THIS? YOU KNOW? SO WE, WE PAINSTAKINGLY TRIED TO FOLLOW THE RULES. I DONATED ALL THE MONEY TO JUST SAY BOSTON. NOW THERE WAS THREE DIFFERENT, UM, PURCHASES OF BILLBOARDS. ONE, UH, ONE WAS WITH, UH, WITH, WITH ONE COMPANY AND THE OTHER ONE WAS WITH A DIFFERENT COMPANY. WE HAD A THIRD THAT WAS, UH, WITH A DIFFERENT COMPANY. SO WE WENT THREE DIFFERENT PURCHASES. THAT'S WHY IT WAS DONATED IN DIFFERENT, UM, LIKE CHUNKS, I GUESS, AND SAY, BOSTON OUTCOME CONFIRM A LATIN AMISH HIM UNDER OATH. YEP. AND WHEN YOU SAID WE HAD THREE DIFFERENT PURCHASES, WHO OR WHOM ARE YOU REFERRING TO AS WE LIKE, SAY BOSTON NOW, AND MYSELF, I GUESS JUST TRYING TO COORDINATE TO FOLLOW THE RULES, YOU KNOW, LIKE I WAS KIND OF LIKE, HEY, I RAISED THIS MONEY. I WANT TO BUY THIS BILLBOARDS. UM, YOU KNOW, IF I DONATE IT, SAY BOSTON NOW, AND THEN SAY BOSTON OUTFITS, IT'S ALL THE CORRECT POLITICAL, UH, YOU KNOW, DISCLOSURE STATEMENTS ON THE BILLBOARDS. WE THOUGHT WE WERE FOLLOWING THE RULES. AND QUITE FRANKLY, LIKE THE REASON I WOULDN'T HAVE GIVEN MY DONOR'S NAMES, YOU KNOW, THE VAST MAJORITY OF THESE WERE ON, UM, THE MAJORITY OF THESE WERE ON THE GOFUNDME, BUT EVEN THE ANONYMOUS ONES ARE, ARE INCLUDED IN MY SPREADSHEET BECAUSE MYSELF AS THE ADMINISTRATOR HAD ACCESS TO THAT, UM, BUT THE, THE REASON I WOULDN'T HAVE DONE IT, IT, THEIR NAMES AS THEY WERE, THEY DIDN'T DONATE MONEY TO SAVE AUSTIN NOW. SO LIKE THROUGH THE PORTAL THAT SAY BOSTON NOW RAISED THE MONEY THROUGH, I WAS THE ONLY ONE, LIKE, YOU KNOW, GIVING, YOU KNOW, GIVING MONEY TO THEM SO THAT, I GUESS WE THOUGHT WE WERE COVERED. BUT, YOU KNOW, THEY'VE OBVIOUSLY HAD THE LIST OF NAMES AS OF A COUPLE MONTHS AGO. DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? UM, IT ACTUALLY, IT ACTUALLY KIND OF RAISED [00:35:01] A COUPLE OF OTHER QUESTIONS FOR ME, UM, SORT OF GOOGLING THROUGH THE FINANCE REPORT. AND I GUESS I WAS WONDERING ABOUT THE TIMING. I'M SURE I CAN FIND THE DATES IN THE REPORT. UM, THE COORDINATION LEVEL BETWEEN YOU AND SAY BOSTON NOW, WHEN SAY BOSTON NOW WAS PURCHASING THOSE BILLBOARDS, WHAT WAS THE LEVEL OF COORDINATION, UM, ON THOSE DIFFERENT CHUNKS OF PAYMENTS TO SAVE AUSTIN NOW? UM, IT WAS A PHONE CALL THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, I BASICALLY SAID, HEY GUYS, LIKE 10, I HEARD THAT THERE'S THIS PACK. I'M GOING TO FORM NO IDEA HOW TO DO THAT AND ARE INTEREST IN DOING THAT. DON'T WANT US TO SPEND THE MONEY TO DO THAT, OR THE TIME CAN I JUST DONATE THIS MONEY TO Y'ALL AND WE ALL, WE ALL PUT IT TOWARDS BILLBOARDS. I THINK THIS IS A GREAT IDEA. AND THEY WERE LIKE, YEAH, SURE. YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'VE ALREADY RAISED THE MONEY FOR IT, YOU KNOW, GIVE IT TO US, WE'LL HANDLE THE, YOU KNOW, THE POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE PART OF IT. AND WE'LL PUT OUR PAC NAME ON THE BILLBOARD SO THAT WE FOLLOW THE RULES. I MEAN, THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF DOING THIS WAS TO FOLLOW THE RULES, QUITE FRANKLY. SO IT'S JUST STARTED, LIKE, I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT, UM, THAT I'M SPENDING ALL THIS TIME AND EFFORT, ENERGY AND MONEY TO, YEAH. SO WE, WE THOUGHT WE'D DO THIS FOR THE PURE PURPOSE OF, OF FOLLOWING THE RULES. SO VERY, VERY LITTLE COORDINATION, JUST TO BE CRYSTAL CLEAR THAT I ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION, I'LL CALL THEM DOWN INTO THE MONEY THEY CONTRACT WITH THE BILLBOARD COMPANIES. YOU KNOW, THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT TO DO. SO MY QUESTION THEN IS, AND I'M SORRY ABOUT MY DOGS. THEY'RE REALLY OBNOXIOUS. UM, UH, MY QUESTION IS, SO IT LOOKS LIKE, UM, YOU MADE A DONATION ON MARCH 30TH AND KENDALL GROUND MADE A DONATION ON MARCH. YOU MAJORS OF 9,844. KENDALL BRANDON MADE HERS ON MARCH 30TH OF 7,156. AND THEN ERIC SWINDLER THAT BEING YOU AGAIN, MADE ONE ON TECH, UH, ON, UH, APRIL 6TH OF 10,345. SO WHAT WAS, UM, WAS THE GO FUND ME, UH, WHEN DID THE GO FUND ME CLOSED DOWN? AND WAS IT RUNNING IN TANDEM WITH THIS, WITH THESE THREE DONATIONS THAT I, THAT I SPOTTED TO SAVE AUSTIN NOW? SO WHEN DID, WHEN DID YOU GO FUND ME OFFICIALLY SHUT DOWN, I GUESS MAYBE THAT PROBABLY THAT DATE IS IN SOME OF THE INFORMATION. AND I, I JUST WANTED TO KNOW, NO, I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY HAS THAT DATA INCLUDING MYSELF. I MEAN, AS SOON AS WE RAISED THE MONEY, THERE WAS KIND OF LIKE NO REAL NEED TO CONTINUE RAISING MORE. SO A GOAL OF SHUTTING IT DOWN WAS TO STOP THE MONEY COMING IN. WE RAISED 30 GRAND IN LIKE 48 OR FOUR DAYS, YOU KNOW, I, I ONLY HAD IT ORIGINALLY LIKE 17 BASKET DOLLARS WHERE THE BILLBOARDS TO BUY. I WAS FRANKLY WORRIED THAT WE WEREN'T GOING TO BE ABLE TO PUT THE MONEY TO WORK. SO WE CLOSED THE GOFUND MADE TO AVOID RAISING ADDITIONAL MONEY. OBVIOUSLY HE LIVES IN THE MIDST OF VOTER TURNOUT AND IMMENSE INTEREST IN THIS SUBJECT. SO I WAS KIND OF WORRIED, HEY, IF WE GET UP TO 50 OR $60,000 ANOTHER WEEK, WHERE ARE WE GOING TO PUT THE MONEY? YOU KNOW, LIKE I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO. SO THAT'S THE REASON TO SHUT IT DOWN. THE REASON FOR IT TO THERE BEING AN ERIC SWINDLER, JUST TO BE CRYSTAL CLEAR. THAT WAS MY, UH, THERE'S NO TRICKERY GOING ON. MY DEBIT CARD LITERALLY SAYS EVERYBODY'S RINGLER. MY CREDIT CARD SAYS AUTO FOREMAN, WINKLER. I HAVE TWO MIDDLE LANES. ERIC IS LEGAL. ERIC WAS MY LEGAL FIRST NAME. I'VE ALWAYS GONE BY AUTO. WHEN I WAS IN COLLEGE, I CHANGED IT FROM AUTO OR FROM ERIC TO AUTO SOME OF MY DRIVER'S LICENSE STUFF OR MY, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST, I JUST PUT DOWN ON THE FORM, WHAT CARD I USE AND, UM, KENDALL, UH, NOW YOU BRING THAT UP. KENDALL'S, YOU KNOW, SHE'S MY ROOMMATE AND MY GIRLFRIEND, AND WE WOULD LIVE TOGETHER AND THEY HAVE USED HER CARD BECAUSE MY CREDIT CARD WAS MAXED OUT. I MEAN, A $10,000 DONATION I NEEDED TO LIKE USE HER CARD TO MAKE THE DONATION AND THEN OTHER COULD'VE BEEN MOTOR OR REGULAR, A CHECK OR SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, WHENEVER MY CARD WASN'T, WASN'T FILLED UP. YEAH. AND I, I DIDN'T, I DIDN'T MEAN TO ASK PERSONAL QUESTIONS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. I'M JUST KIND OF TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE, YOU KNOW, SORT OF THE TIMING BETWEEN THE GO FUND ME AND SAY BOSTON NOW. YEAH. AND I THINK YOU ACTUALLY MAY HAVE ANSWERED MARY. YOU MAY HAVE ANSWERED JOE'S QUESTION OR, OR MAYBE EVEN BETSY'S QUESTION THOSE, THOSE THREE AMOUNTS. IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU, YOU MIGHT HAVE THEM MORE ACCESSIBLE THAN ME, BUT IT WAS LIKE 10,000, 9,000 AND 7,000. DID I HEAR YOU RIGHT? YES. PRETTY QUICK. I THINK IT'S IN THE 28, 20 $9,000 RANGE PLUS OR MINUS, YOU KNOW, THERE MAY HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW, 1500 BUCKS THAT I MADE VARIOUS OTHER THOUSAND DOLLARS PERSONAL DONATIONS TO SAVE AUSTIN NOW. AND WHATEVER I HAD LEFTOVER, UH, FROM THIS, I, I CERTAINLY DONATED THE REMAINDER PLUS, YOU KNOW, TWO OR 3000 OF MY OWN [00:40:01] MONEY. SO I, I CERTAINLY GAVE, YOU CAN GO THROUGH THE, THE RECORDS I'VE PUT NOW. I CERTAINLY GAVE OVER THE, OVER THE $30,000 THAT I RAISED, UH, TUESDAY, BOSTON NOW, YOU KNOW, LIKE I, I GAVE THOSE THREE DONATIONS YOU'RE REFERRING TO PLUS TWO OR THREE OTHER LIKE THOUSAND OR $1,500 DONATIONS BECAUSE IT WAS SOMETHING I CARED A LOT ABOUT. OKAY. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. COMMISSIONER DAN BERG. YEAH. FIRST, I MEAN, IT'S KINDA, IT'S KINDA SETTLED DOWN, BUT I JUST WANT TO SAY TO MR. CASINO AND MR. SWINDLER AND EVERYBODY ELSE WHO COMES HERE, IF WE'RE ASKING A QUESTION THAT DOES NOT MEAN WE'RE ACCUSING ANYBODY, WE REALLY ARE JUST TRYING TO GET INFO. UM, SO ON THAT POINT I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS DOES GO FUND ME WHOLE BACK ANY OF THE MONEY AS ANY KIND OF A FEE OR CONVENIENCE COST OR WHATEVER. AND THEN THE OTHER QUESTION IS, WELL, LET ME, LET ME JUST ASK THAT FIRST. AND I'LL ASK THE OTHER ONE IN A MINUTE. DOES GO FUND ME, HOLD BACK. ANY PORTION OF THE DONATIONS AS I HAD, I HEARD ONE DAY I HAD ONE DONATION IN LIKE THE THREE OR $400 DOLLAR RANGE. AND THIS MAY BE WHY MY SPREADSHEET IS SLIGHTLY OFF BY LIKE TWO OR 300 BUCKS FROM THE, UM, FROM THE AMOUNT IN MY, UH, CHECKING ACCOUNT SCREENSHOT THAT I SHARED. SO THE CHECKING ACCOUNT SCREENSHOT, I THINK IS LIKE $400 LESS THAN THE SPREADSHEET I SHOWED, YOU KNOW, IT'S 29,600 INSTEAD OF 29,200 OR WHATEVER THE MATH SHAKES OUT YOU'LL HAVE THE INFO. BUT, UH, ONE OF MY DONORS, I THINK SAW THE CREDIT CARD STATEMENT AND THOUGHT OF IT AS A FRAUDULENT CHARGE. SO SHE DISPUTED IT IS A GO FUND. ME RETURNED HER MONEY. I HAD ALREADY SPENT IT DONATED TO SAVE US NOW. SO THAT WAS WHY MY NUMBERS WERE OFF, BUT I DIDN'T PAY ANYTHING TO BE TOO, TOO. UM, I DIDN'T PAY A FEE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT TO LIST SOMETHING ON GOOD FUND ME. OKAY. YOU CAN ASK APOLLO CONTRIBUTE. AMBER, GO AHEAD. OKAY. AND THEN, THEN MY, MY OTHER QUESTION, UH, MS. , DO YOU KNOW WHAT A BUNDLER IS? AND DO YOU THINK OF YOURSELF AS ONE? UH, I, I WOULD NEED THE DEFINITION. I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS, UH, UH, COMMISSIONER ELEVEN'S HAND, I THINK, GO AHEAD. OH YEAH. A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS FOR MR. CASINO. UM, CAN YOU IDENTIFY A SINGLE DIRECT CAMPAIGN EXPENDITURE THAT MR. SLINGER MAY WELL, UH, BY HIS OWN ADMISSION, UM, YOU KNOW, SAY HE HAD BEEN ELECTIONEERING AND MAKING EXPENDITURES TO HELP PASS PROPERTY. COULD YOU DEFINE THAT? I'M GOING TO ASK YOU NOT TO INTERJECT OR INTERRUPT OR ASK QUESTIONS IT'S UM, FOR COMMISSIONERS TO ASK AND FOR PARTIES, INTENSIFY TO ANSWER, UM, GO AHEAD, COMMISSIONER 11. SO MR. CASINO, YOUR ALLEGATION YOU'RE ONE OF THEM, IS THAT MR. SWANGER VIOLATED TWO DASH TWO DASH 32, RIGHT? YES, SIR. WHICH IS WHICH, UH, IS ABOUT REPORTING DIRECT CAMPAIGN EXPENDITURES, CORRECT? YES, SIR. AND DO YOU HAVE ANY, ANY, CAN YOU IDENTIFY ONE EXPENDITURE THAT MR. SWINGER MADE ONE DIRECT CAMPAIGN EXPENDITURE AS IT'S DEFINED IN THE CUPBOARD THAT YOU ALLEGED HE VIOLATED? WELL, I MEAN, HE DONATED, WHICH IS AN EXPENDITURE. SO YOU THINK THAT A CONTRIBUTION ISN'T AS A DIRECT CAMPAIGN EXPENDITURE? I MEAN, IF YES, I DO. YES, SIR. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. UM, DO YOU CONTEND THAT, UH, MR. SWINGER ACTUALLY HIMSELF PURCHASED ANY BILLBOARDS? YES OR NO? UH, YES, SIR. I DO. HE HIMSELF PURCHASED IT. YES, SIR. I DO. AND HOW MUCH DID HE PAY FOR THAT? I MEAN, TH LIKE IT WASN'T $10,000 ANY, HE SAID THAT BY HIS OWN ADMISSION AND THE, UM, I MEAN, THAT'S LISTED IN MY BUT $10,000. YES, SIR. OKAY. AND TO PAY THAT, WELL, HE ALSO HAD, UM, COORDINATED THAT ON THE PHONE WITH SAVE AUSTIN NOW. OKAY. BUT THAT'S NOT HIM MAKING THE EXPENDITURE THAT SAVE AUSTIN. NOW, DO YOU AGREE? UM, NO, SIR. I DON'T. SO YOU THINK THAT WHEN A CON CONTRIBUTOR GIVES MONEY TO A PACK AND THE PACK SPENDS THAT MONEY, THE CONTRIBUTOR IS MAKING A DIRECT CAMPAIGN EXPENDITURE? WELL, I MEAN, HE DID, HE DIRECTLY ASKED THEM TO MAKE THAT EXPENDITURE. SO YES, I WOULD SAY THAT [00:45:01] HE WAS MAKING BAD DIRECTION. THAT'S NOT WHAT I ASKED MR. CASINO. IT'S AN IT, HE GETTING THE MONEY TO SAVE AUSTIN. NOW, DO YOU AGREE THAT THAT'S TRUE? YES, I DO, BUT OKAY. AND THEN, AND THEN LET ME, UH, YOU'VE ANSWERED MY QUESTION. I, I DON'T HAVE A TON OF TIME HERE AND THEN SAVE AUSTIN NOW PAID FOR THE BILLBOARD. TRUE OR FALSE. UM, I MEAN, IT SEEMS AS SUCH. YES, SIR. OKAY. AND YOU ARE CON YOU'RE TELLING THIS COMMISSION THAT, THAT SITUATION RIGHT THERE IS MR. SWINGER MAKING A DIRECT CAMPAIGN EXPENSE? YES, SIR. I AM. OKAY. THAT'S GOOD TO KNOW. HE COORDINATED WITH THEM AND THAT IS WHY I INTEND THAT BY HIS OWN ADMISSION. OKAY. THAT'S ALL I'VE GOT. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. UH, SECRETARY LEARNER AND COMMISSIONERS. I JUST WANT EVERYONE TO KNOW I'M NOT GOING TO BE HYPER STRICT. I KNOW THAT WE ARE COMING UP ON ABOUT 20 MINUTES, BUT I'M GOING TO BE A LITTLE BIT LENIENT ON THAT TIME WHEN THE SECRETARY LEARNED TO GO AHEAD. OKAY. JUST REAL QUICK, JUST FOLLOWING ON, UM, UH, COMMISSIONER LEVIN'S LINE OF QUESTIONING. SO, SO MR. CASINO, IF, IF THEY, IF THEY'VE ASKED IT NOW HAD SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT BILLBOARDS AREN'T EFFECTIVE, WE'RE GOING TO, WE'RE GOING TO DO RADIO ADS. HOW, WHERE WOULD YOU FALL ON THIS? WELL, I MEAN, IT'S A, IT'S THE SAME SORT OF THING. I MEAN, AT THE END OF THE DAY, I MEAN, UM, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, HE HAD COORDINATED WITH THEM, YOU KNOW, UM, AND HE HAD, IT WAS, IT WAS HIS, UM, AND HIS DONATION IS AN EXPENDITURE, BUT IF HE, BUT THE C, SO WHAT I'M HEARING YOU SAY IS OPERATIVE. I THINK THE OPERATIVE ELEMENT, WHAT I'M HEARING FROM YOU IS THAT HE GAVE HIM MONEY FOR AN EXPRESS PURPOSE THAT SAVE AUSTIN. NOW, ALMOST LIKE HE'S CONTRACTING, SAVE AUSTIN NOW TO DO SOMETHING THAT HE WANTS. YES. MA'AM WOULD IT BE DIFFERENT FOR YOU? IF HE JUST SAID, HEY, SAVE US NOW. HERE'S MONEY. WE RAISED MONEY. WE WANT THEM TO GO TOWARD THAT PROPERTY ADVOCACY. UM, EVEN, EVEN SO, I MEAN, THAT'S STILL ELECTIONEERING, WHICH, UM, WOULD FIT, UM, UNDER DEFINITIONS THAT WOULD VIOLATE THE CITY CODE. AND IF HE JUST SAID, HEY, SAVE OUT. I LIKE WHAT YOU'RE DOING. HERE'S $30,000, WHICH YOU ALL WITH IT? UM, NO, I MEAN, I WOULD, I WOULD STILL SAY AT THE END OF THE DAY, UM, THAT, YOU KNOW, IT WAS, IT WASN'T, IT WAS ELECTIONEERING. AND, UM, EVEN IF HE DIDN'T MENTION PROPERLY IS WHAT I'M SAYING. I MEAN, JUST TRYING TO, I WOULD ALSO ADD THAT PROPERTY IS MENTIONED, UM, YOU KNOW, UM, ON THE FUNDRAISER ITSELF, BUT I ALSO THINK THAT HE WOULDN'T SOLICIT, UM, YOU KNOW, ANY OF HIS OWN MONEY. I THINK THE OPERATIVE QUESTION HERE IS ABOUT HOW MUCH OF THIS DONATION WAS FOR AN EXPRESS LECTIONARY PURPOSE. AND SO, BECAUSE THE BILLBOARDS I'M HEARING YOU SAY THAT BECAUSE HE ASKED FOR BILLBOARDS AND BILLBOARDS WERE WHAT HAPPENED. YEAH. THAT'S THE DIRECT CONNECTION. YES. THAT, THAT, THAT I WOULD ADD AS DIRECT CONNECTION TO SAVE AUSTIN NOW AND WITH WINDFALL, BY AS AN EXPENDITURE. YEAH. OKAY. JUST FOR A TIME CHECK. JUST WANT EVERYONE TO KNOW THAT WE PASSED 20 MINUTES. I'M GOING TO PUT ANOTHER 10 MINUTES ON THE CLOCK. SURE. WELL, I WAS GONNA, UH, I SAW COMMISSIONER DANBURG AND, UM, AND THEN I WAS GONNA ADD RECOMMENDER, DAN BROOKE'S QUESTION. I WAS GONNA MAKE A FINAL CALL FOR QUESTIONS. SO I'D GO TO COMMISSIONER DANBURG FOR A QUESTION, AND THEN I'LL DO AROUND TO SEE IF ANYONE ELSE HAS FINAL QUESTION. GO AHEAD. I APPRECIATE IT. AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT AFTER MANY, MANY, MANY YEARS OF BEING INVOLVED IN THIS, I'M STILL NOT QUITE SURE WHAT I THINK OF IT. I WOULD LIKE TO ASK BOTH THE COMPLAINANT AND THE RESPONDENT, WHAT THEY THINK ABOUT THE LEVEL OF COORDINATION. WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO GO FIRST COMMISSIONER, SIR. ALL RIGHT. WELL, UM, I MEAN HE, MR. SWINDLER, UM, YOU KNOW, HAD MULTIPLE PHONE CALLS WITH THEM, WHICH HE HAD ADMITTED AND, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, JUST THE, THE IMPORTANT POINT IS THAT, THAT I JUST WANT TO GET BACK TO YOU IS THAT HE RAISED $30,000, WHICH WAS NOT ALL OF HIS, UM, AND HE SOLICITED FUNDS AND TO COORDINATE WITH SAVE AUSTIN NOW. AND I MEAN, SO THAT'S, I WOULD, I WOULD SAY THAT THAT WAS A HIGH LEVEL, OF COURSE, UH, MS. UH, COMMISSIONER KLINGLER. OKAY, SURE, SURE. YEAH. I WOULD SAY THERE IS VERY LITTLE TO NONE COORDINATION SINCE I WAS THE ONE COORDINATING IT. THAT PROBABLY SHOULD BE THE ONE TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION. UM, AS OPPOSED TO JOE'S SPECULATION ON THE SUBJECT, IT CAN BE, UH, THE ENTIRE GO FUND ME WAS VERY CLEARLY ME TRYING TO RAISE MONEY [00:50:01] TO, TO BUY THESE BILLBOARDS. I'M I'M, AS I'VE STATED TWICE ON THIS CALL AND ON, AND BOTH OF THE OTHER, UH, PREVIOUS CALLS, I FOUND OUT THAT, HEY, THERE'S, THERE'S THESE RULES TO FOLLOW, AND YOU HAVE TO CREATE A PACK. IF IT'S OVER 500 BUCKS, FOUND THAT OUT. I WAS, IT WAS SUGGESTED TO ME TO CALL SAY, BOSTON ALLEN, GO THROUGH THEIR PACK. YOU KNOW, LIKE, HEY, TRY TO FOLLOW THE RULES. YOU KNOW, GO, GO DONATE THE MONEY TO THE PACK THAT IS LITERALLY SET UP TO HANDLE THIS SUBJECT PROPERTY THAT WE WERE RAISING MONEY TO ADVOCATE FOR. SO, YOU KNOW, UH, I, I GUESS I, I AM CONFUSED AS TO WHY THERE'D BE SPECULATION OTHER THAN, YOU KNOW, WHEN I DECIDED, HEY, I CALLED THEM, DONATED THE MONEY THEY CONTRACTED FOR SOME BILLBOARDS, YOU KNOW, WE, WE THOUGHT WE WERE FOLLOWING ALL THE RULES. I'M NOT QUITE SURE HOW COULD THERE COULD BE SPECULATION THAT THERE WAS MORE THAN A CALL BECAUSE I PREVIOUS STATED ON THIS PHONE CALL, BUT THAT'S, THAT WAS THE LEVEL OF COORDINATION. AND I THINK THEY'VE ALSO NOW WITH IT, SAME THING, BUT THOSE WERE THE PARTIES INVOLVED, YOU KNOW, MY MYSELF AND SAY, BOSTON NOW, THANK YOU BOTH. ALL RIGHT, COMMISSIONERS, I'M GOING TO DO, UH, IF ANYONE HAS A BURNING ADDITIONAL QUESTION, THEY WOULD LIKE TO ASK ONE OF THE PARTIES. THE FLOOR IS OPEN NOW, UM, FOR A FINAL QUESTION, OKAY. I'M NOT SEEING ANY TAKERS. UM, OKAY. THEN THE HEARING IS GOING TO BE CLOSED. AND SO WE ARE GOING TO PROCEED WITH DELIBERATIONS. SO AT THIS POINT, NO MORE ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS TO THE WITNESSES OR SORRY TO THE PARTIES. UM, AND THE PARTIES, UH, ARE INSTRUCTED POLITELY NOT TO INTERJECT AS WE DO THESE DELIBERATIONS. UM, SO THIS IS WHERE WE DISCUSS AMONGST OURSELVES COMMISSIONERS. AND IT'S ALSO A TIME WHERE WE WOULD BE MAKING MOTIONS. SO WITH THAT FLOOR IS OPEN FOR DISCUSSION OR MOTIONS. OKAY. I WILL JUMP IN IF THERE AREN'T ANY MEDIA TAKERS AND JUST BRIEFLY COMMENT, UM, THAT ARE JUST ONE IS DESCRIBED FOR THE EDIFICATION OF ARE THE PARTIES THAT HAVE GIVEN A LOT OF THEIR TIME TO THIS PROCESS. UM, AND THAT DECIDED TO, YOU KNOW, SHOW UP HERE TODAY, UM, THAT WHAT WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW IS SIMPLY GETTING INFORMATION. IF YOU FIND OUT WHETHER OR NOT A VIOLATION HAS OCCURRED, THERE'S NO PRESUMPTION OF GUILT ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. UM, I KNOW THAT IT'S, UH, IT CAN BE KIND OF A GRUELING PROCESS AND SOMETIMES A FRUSTRATING PROCESS, BUT I WANT TO AT LEAST SPEAK ON BEHALF OF THE COMMISSION. I GOT PRETTY GOOD FAITH THAT NO ONE COMES IN WITH A PRECONCEIVED NOTION OR, UH, YOU KNOW, MOVE INTO A DESIRED OUTCOME BASED ON ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT THE EVIDENCE IS IN FRONT OF US. UM, AND I JUST WANTED TO THANK THE PARTIES AGAIN TO THEIR PATIENTS. I KNOW IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME AND THERE HAVE BEEN LONG HEARINGS. UM, SO I SAW I SAT COMMISSIONER GREENBERG'S AND THEN I'LL GET TO COMMISSIONER STANTON. SO I SAW YOUR HAND RIGHT AS I WAS JUMPING INTO. GO AHEAD, COMMISSIONER GREENBERG. THANK YOU. UM, SO FOR ME, WHAT I SEE IS THE MONEY WAS COLLECTED SPECIFICALLY FOR THE PURPOSE OF PUTTING UP BILLBOARDS TO, UM, IN FAVOR OF PROPOSITION B AND EXPENDITURES WERE MADE TO PUT THOSE BILLBOARDS UP, UM, PASSING THE MONEY TO SAVE AUSTIN NOW DOES NOT REALLY IN MY MIND CHANGE THAT ESSENTIAL FACT. AND WHAT WAS KIND OF SURPRISING TO ME TODAY WAS HEARING MR. SWINDLER REPEATEDLY USE THE WORD WE FIRST, HE SAID, WE MADE SURE THAT THE DISCLOSURES WERE ON THE BILLBOARD. WE MADE THREE PURCHASES. UM, TO ME THAT SOUNDS LIKE EXPENDITURES, WHETHER IT WAS PUT INTO THE MONEY, PUT INTO, UM, SAVE AUSTIN NOW. SO SAVE AUSTIN NOW COULD TECHNICALLY MAKE THE PURCHASES. IT'S STILL SEEMS LIKE THE RESPONDENT PLANNED. IT MADE THE PURCHASES SAID $17,000. THERE'S AN EXPRESS $17,000 PURCHASE FOR BILLBOARDS IN THE, UM, SAVE AUSTIN. NOW DISCLOSURE, IT WAS ALL PLANNED AND THE DIFFERENCES IS REALLY JUST A TECHNICALITY [00:55:01] IN MY MIND. AND, UM, THAT'S ALL I WANT TO SAY RIGHT NOW. UH, SURE. I'LL UM, I'LL, I'LL PASS. I SAW COMMISSIONER STANTON 10, AND THEN COMMISSIONER 11. WHAT I WANT TO JUST BRIEFLY SAY FOR THE SAKE OF COMMISSIONERS, UH, DELIBERATIONS. UM, ONE THING TO BEAR IN MIND IS THAT A DIRECT CAMPAIGN EXPENDITURE IS ONE THAT IS MADE WITHOUT COORDINATION. UM, AND THAT IS SPECIFICALLY WHAT'S BEING ALLEGED IN THE COMPLAINT. UM, AND WITH THAT, I'LL TURN TO COMMISSIONER STANTON, AND THEN COMMISSION TO LOVE AND STUFF. COMMISSIONER STANDING, GO AHEAD. THANK YOU, SARAH. I JUST WANTED TO REITERATE, UM, YOUR STATEMENT TO, UH, TO THE PARTIES INVOLVED HERE AND TO THANK THEM FOR THEIR TIME AND THAT EFFORT. AND I ALSO WANTED TO, UM, SAY THAT FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, AND I THINK THAT, UH, I COULD PROBABLY SPEAK FOR OTHERS ON THE COMMISSION AS WELL, WHICH IS, UM, UH, MR. SWINDLER AND MR. CASINO, PLEASE DO NOT, UH, INTERPRET, UH, THIS, ANY DECISIONS AS A JUDGMENT OF YOUR CHARACTER. THAT IS CERTAINLY NOT. UM, IT, IT IS JUST FROM MY PERSPECTIVE WHEN YOU'RE JUST DECIDING WHETHER, UM, A VIOLATION OF A CODE HAS OCCURRED. UM, THIS IS NOT A ON EITHER, UM, CHARACTER OF EITHER OF YOU. SO PLEASE KEEP THAT IN MIND. THANK YOU. THAT'S ALL THAT I HAVE TO SAY RIGHT NOW. OKAY. UH, COMMISSIONER, LEVIN'S GO AHEAD. YEAH. AND COMMISSIONER GREENBERG. I JUST WANT TO SEE IF I UNDERSTAND YOUR POSITION. I, WHAT I'M HEARING FROM YOU IS THAT YOU'RE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE LEVEL OF COORDINATION BETWEEN MR. SWINGER AND SAY BOSTON. NOW, IF I'M HEARING THAT WRONG, OBVIOUSLY CORRECT ME. UM, AND THAT, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S COOL WITH THAT, I'M SORRY. ARE YOU ASKING ME A QUESTION? YEAH. AS PART OF DELIBERATION TO SEE IF I UNDERSTAND YOUR IT'S, UM, NOT SO MUCH THE COORDINATION AS THIS SPECIFICALLY, UM, BASIC BASICALLY JUST PASSING THE MONEY THROUGH TO DO WHAT HE ALWAYS INTENDED TO DO. IT'S TO PROVIDE THE DISCLOSURES NEEDED SPECIFICALLY, MR. COOPER, MR. SPANGLER, PLEASE. UH, UH, AS I INSTRUCTED YOU EARLIER, PLEASE DON'T INTERJECT, UM, COMMISSIONERS DELIBERATION AT THIS POINT. UM, AND, UH, THANK YOU. UH, SO COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, IF YOU HAD A FURTHER ANSWER OR COMMISSIONED 11, IF YOU HAVE FURTHER COMMENT, GO AHEAD. UM, I WANT TO, IF YOU'RE FINISHED WITH THAT COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, I HAD KIND OF A FOLLOW-UP QUESTION, WHICH IS, IS THAT LEVEL OF COORDINATION OR, OR EVEN IF IT'S DIRECTLY, MR. SWINGER SAYS, SAVE AUSTIN. NOW HERE'S X DOLLARS. I WANT YOU TO SPEND IT ON BILLBOARDS AND SAVE AUSTIN. NOW IT TURNS AROUND AND SPENDS IT ON BILLBOARDS. IS THAT PROHIBITED BY TWO DASH TWO DASH 32? THAT'S NOT MY POINT. MY POINT IS HE JUST DID WHAT HE ALWAYS PLANNED TO DO. IS THAT A VIOLATION? SO I I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IF YOU'RE MAKING THE CONTENTION THAT IN DOING SO, MR. SWINGER VIOLATED A PART OF THE FAN FINANCE CODE OR THAT IT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE NOT, UH, PARTICULARLY PLEASED ABOUT, WHICH IS FAIR ENOUGH. I'M NOT CRITICIZING THAT. I'M JUST WANTING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE. I DO BELIEVE HE VIOLATED PART OF THE FINANCE CODE. I BELIEVE THAT HE COLLECTED MONEY FOR THE PURPOSE OF, YOU KNOW, FOR A BALLOT MEASURE. AND THAT WAS MORE THAN $500. THERE WAS NO CAMPAIGN TREASURER APPOINTED. THERE WAS NO PAC PAPERWORK SET UP. THERE WERE NO CAMPAIGN FINANCE REPORTS. SO IF YOU'RE ASKING ME, DO I THINK HE VIOLATED CAMPAIGN FINANCE LAW? THE ANSWER IN MY MIND IS YES. OKAY. AND THAT, I GUESS TO ME, THAT'S FAIR ENOUGH, PERHAPS. SO, BUT IT'S NOT WHAT THE ALLEGATION IS. YEAH. THAT THAT'S DUE AND I THINK ARE, ARE AT LEAST ON THAT POINT ON THE SAME PAGE THAT IF IT'S A VIOLATION, IT'S NOT A VIOLATION TO 2 32. THAT'S ALL I HAVE FOR NOW. IT WAS JUST A CONTRIBUTION. NOT AN EXPENDITURE. YEAH. SURE. OKAY. UH, COMMISSIONERS, ANY OTHER, UH, FLOORS OPENS THOUGH? UM, I'M JUST LOOKING FOR HANDS. UM, SEE COMMISSIONER DANBURG I I'M, I THINK I'M IN LINE WITH COMMISSIONER LEVIN'S AND COMMISSIONER GREENBERG THAT MR. SWING BLUR [01:00:03] DID AS BEST AS HE NOTED NEW TO DO. AND THAT, UH, SITE AUSTIN NOW DID COORDINATE WITH HIM, BUT NOW IN THE HECK, WOULD HE HAVE KNOWN THOSE RULES? IT'S IF YOU WANT TO, I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW HE KNOWS THE RULES, THE RULES OF THE RULES. WELL, I DIDN'T SEE THE SPEED LIMIT SIGN, BUT I'M STILL EXPECTED TO OBEY IT. SURE. UM, I HAVE, UH, UH, I'LL JUMP IN QUICKLY AND JUST, UH, OBSERVE THAT A FEW THINGS CAN BE TRUE, RIGHT. UM, THAT ONE, WE HAVE RULES AND THEY ARE IMPORTANT AND THEIR COMPLEXITY DOESN'T DIMINISH THEIR IMPORTANCE. UM, IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THEY'RE FOLLOWED. UM, IT CAN ALSO BE THE CASE THAT SOMEONE TRIES THEIR HARDEST, UH, TO FIGURE OUT THOSE RULES AND MAKE GOOD FAITH EFFORTS TO COMPLY WITH THEM. UM, AND I, I MEAN, I THINK ONE, ONE THING I'M STRUGGLING WITH IS THE, THE BASIS, THE REASON WE ARE HERE IS BECAUSE BASED ON WHAT WE HEARD IN THE PRELIMINARY HEARING, UM, THERE WERE REASONABLE GROUNDS TO THINK THAT MAYBE A VIOLATION OCCURRED. UM, I CAN SPEAK PERSONALLY AND SAY THAT, UH, FOR ME IT WAS THE, UM, THE, AT LEAST THE DESCRIPTION OF THE GOFUNDME, HE'S SAYING I'VE ALREADY SPENT $10,000 OF MY OWN MONEY DOING THIS THING. AND THEN IT MENTIONED THAT MR. SWINDLER, THE RESPONDENT WAS THE AUTHOR OF THAT. UM, TO ME, THAT WAS REASONABLE. AND THOSE WERE GROUNDS OF REASONABLE ENOUGH TO THINK THAT MAYBE, MAYBE THERE'LL BE DIRECT CAMPAIGN EXPENDITURE. UM, SO OUR PURPOSE HERE IS TO SEE WHAT EVIDENCE THE PARTIES CAN PRODUCE AND SPECIFICALLY WHAT THE COMPLAINANT CAN OFFER SINCE THE BURDEN IS ON HIM TO PROVE THIS PROOF, THAT THERE WAS A VIOLATION TO SEE WHAT ADDITIONAL EVIDENCE THERE IS TO SUGGEST THAT A DIRECT CAMPAIGN EXPENDITURE OCCURRED UNDER 2 32 DENTISTS, TWO DASH 32. UM, SO THAT IS KIND OF WHERE I'M STUCK, UM, IS THAT I DON'T, WE'VE KIND OF BEEN EQUIVOCATING ON SOME REALLY IMPORTANT TERMS ON WHAT IS AN EXPENDITURE, UH, AND, UM, WHAT, AS, YOU KNOW, DOING SOMETHING INDEPENDENTLY OR DOING SOMETHING IN COORDINATION. UM, I THINK THOSE WATERS GOT A LITTLE UNNECESSARILY MUDDIED. UM, BUT, UH, ONE THING THAT I THINK IS PRETTY CLEAR TO ME IS THAT I HAVE NOT YET SEEN, UM, THE KIND OF EVIDENCE THAT I THINK MEETS WHAT THE CODE SAYS. UM, SPECIFICALLY THERE WAS AN EXPENDITURE FOR ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE ACTIVITIES, RIGHT. UM, SPECIFICALLY A DIRECT CAMPAIGN EXPENDITURE. OH, SORRY. UH, SPECIFICALLY, UM, UH, POLITICAL ADVERTISEMENT, ELECTIONARY COMMUNICATION OR EXPRESS ADVOCACY, UM, AFTER 2, 2 33, UM, THAT WOULD REQUIRE SOME KIND OF DISCLOSURE STATEMENT OR THAT, UH, THAT ANYTHING ELSE HAS MET THE DEFINITION OF A DIRECT CAMPAIGN EXPENDITURE THAT WOULD REQUIRE REPORTING. UM, I THINK THERE WAS A SUGGESTION, BUT, UH, PROOF IS NOT SOMETHING THAT I FOUND AT THIS YEAR. UM, BUT, UH, AGAIN, FLOOR'S OPEN COMMISSIONERS. UH, I'LL TAKE ANY OTHER COMMENTS MOTIONS. YEAH, GO AHEAD. AS WE DISCUSSED THIS THERE JUST A FEW THINGS THAT COME TO MY MIND. I MEAN, THE FIRST THING IS, UM, AS DIFFICULT AS IT MIGHT BE OR CHALLENGING AS IT MIGHT BE. I, YOU KNOW, I THINK PART OF WHAT MAKES THIS COUNTRY A WONDERFUL COUNTRY TO LIVE IN AS WELL AS COUNTY AND CITY, IS THAT WHEN IT COMES TO ALLEGATIONS THAT ARE, UH, THAT ARE AFFECTED SOMEHOW BY THE WAY OF GOVERNMENT THAT A PERSON HAS TO BE SHOWN TO HAVE VIOLATED THE SPECIFIC VIOLATIONS. AND THE SPECIFIC VIOLATIONS HERE ARE SPENDING ARE MAKING A, UM, EXCUSE [01:05:01] ME, WHAT IS THE WORD I'M LOOKING FOR AN EXPENDITURE, RIGHT? SO EITHER TWO DASH 32, I READ CAMPAIGN EXPENDITURE THAT PERSON MADE THE EXPENDITURE OR TWO DASH TWO DASH 33, WHICH AGAIN, REQUIRED REQUIRES A DIRECT EXPENDITURE, UH, THAT IS MADE SOMEHOW. AND SO FOR ME IN FRAMING, THIS, THE FIRST QUESTION I'M GOING TO ASK WAS WHETHER THE RESPONDENT MADE A DIRECT EXPENDITURE. NOW, WHETHER HE CALLED SOMEONE UP AND SAID, HEY, CAN YOU MAKE THIS EXPENDITURE NOW, WHETHER HE BUMBLED MONEY AND THEN PASS THAT MONEY ALONG, WHETHER HE HIMSELF MADE A DIRECT EXPENDITURE AS OPPOSED TO A CONTRIBUTION, BECAUSE THE CODE DOESN'T MAKE A DISTINCTION. AND SO IN FRAMING THIS ISSUE, THAT'S FOR ME, THAT'S, THAT'S GONNA BE THE BREAD AND BUTTER OF IT. AND FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN, THERE IS NOT EVIDENCE THAT HE CAN SELL, MADE A DIRECT EXPENDITURE. NOW WHETHER OR NOT SAY BOSTON NOW REPORTED THEIR CONTRIBUTIONS THAT THEY RECEIVED CORRECTLY. THAT'S ANOTHER MATTER WHETHER OR NOT RESPOND SHOULD HAVE TAKEN SOME ADDITIONAL STEPS AS IT RELATES TO OTHER PARTS OF THE CODE. THAT, AGAIN, IT'S A DIFFERENT MATTER BEFORE THE ISSUE THAT IS BEFORE US. I KIND OF STRAINED TO SEE OUR DIRECT EXPENDITURE HAS BEEN MADE. THANK YOU, VICE CHAIR. UM, ANY OTHER COMMENTS, UM, OR DISCUSSION COMMISSIONERS? UM, OH, GO AHEAD. I SAID COMMISSIONER 11. EDIT. IS THAT YOUR HAND? OH, I THOUGHT IT WAS SORRY. UM, NOW THAT'S ME JUST FIDGETING. SORRY. NO, THAT'S FAIR. I'M TRYING TO BE HYPERSENSITIVE TO A POSSIBLE HAND. UM, AND SO YEAH, ONE THING, UM, I'LL ALSO OFFER IS THAT, UM, I, EVEN IF THERE WAS, UH, A TECHNICAL VIOLATION THAT YOU COULD MAYBE DIVINE, IF YOU INTERPRET THE RIGHT WORDS THE RIGHT WAY, UM, IT SEEMS PRETTY CLEAR TO ME THAT MR. SWINDLER REALLY DID TRY TO DO, UH, TO GO BY THE BOOK, SO TO SPEAK AND DEVIATIONS FROM, BY THE BOOK, UM, CAN BE LAID AT THE FEET OF PEOPLE WHO SHOULD'VE KNOWN BETTER. UM, SO THAT'S, THAT'S JUST AN ADDITIONAL OBSERVATION I WANTED TO MAKE, UM, COMMISSIONERS I'M, I'M HAPPY. I DON'T SEE MUCH MORE DELIBERATION OR COMMENTS. UM, SO I'M HAPPY TO ENTERTAIN A MOTION, BEN WITH HANDS ON MOTION, MR. MCHALE. OH, I WOULD LIKE TO ENTERTAIN THE MOTION THAT WE DISMISS THE COMPLAINT AGAINST MR. SWINDLER. UM, I DON'T SEE EVIDENCE OF A DIRECT EXPENDITURE FROM THE GO FUND ME REAL QUICK. LET'S GET A SECOND ON THAT. UH, AND JUST TO CLARIFY THE MOTION AS WELL. UM, I SAW, UH, DAN BROOKS HANDS, SO SHE'LL BE THE SECOND, BUT I WANT TO CLARIFY THE MOTION AS WELL. THAT IT'S, UH, THAT THERE HAS NOT BEEN A VIOLATION OF THE SECTIONS ALLEGED TO HAVE BEEN VIOLATED. OKAY. THAT'S THE MOTION BY COMMISSIONER KALE SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER DANBURG COMMISSIONER CAROL. YOU CAN JUST DISCUSS THE MOTION PART OF IT. GO AHEAD. WELL, I JUST, I, UM, I I'M, I LIKE, I LIKE TO KEEP A PRETTY TIGHT REIGN, YOU KNOW, ON, ON, UH, THESE CAMPAIGN FINANCE ISSUES AND, UM, UM, TRY TO RUN EVERYTHING AS ETHICALLY AND FINANCIALLY TRANSPARENT AS POSSIBLE, BUT I DON'T SEE EVIDENCE OF DIRECT EXPENDITURES ON MR. SWINDLERS PART FOR ADVOCACY. YES. HE DONATED TO SAVE AUSTIN NOW AND YES, THEY ULTIMATELY BOUGHT BILLBOARD SPACE WITH THOSE DONATIONS, BUT I DON'T SEE THE COORDINATION AND PLANNING THAT WOULD INDICATE A VIOLATION HAS OCCURRED. OKAY. THAT'S CONDITIONER IS ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS MOTION, MR. GREENBERG? UM, I JUST WANT TO MENTION, I WILL VOTE FOR THE MOTION, BUT AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, I DO BELIEVE A VIOLATION HAS OCCURRED. UM, I WOULD ENCOURAGE THE, UM, COMPLAINING TO REFILE [01:10:01] AND PERHAPS NOT BE SO SPECIFIC IN NAMING THE SECTION OF THE CODE. UM, I'VE SEEN COMPLAINTS THAT JUST MENTIONED TWO DASH TWO OR EVEN TWO DASH TWO AND TWO DASH SEVEN, UM, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, WITHIN OUR JURISDICTION. AND IF YOU'RE SO SPECIFIC THAT WE HAVE TO SAY, WELL, NO, THERE WASN'T AN EXPENDITURE. THEN WE'RE IN A POSITION WHERE WE HAVE TO DISMISS, EVEN WHEN IT'S PRETTY CLEAR THAT THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN A CAMPAIGN TREASURER, THAT THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN A FILING FOR A PACK. UM, AND YOU KNOW, SOMEONE TOLD MR. SWINDLER THAT, UM, BUT THEN, SO HE GAVE THE MONEY TO SAVE LOSTON NOW, BUT I'M NOT REAL CLEAR THAT THAT JUST MEANS HE DIDN'T HAVE A VIOLATION. I THINK HE DID. I'M GONNA, UM, RESPECTFULLY ASK THAT WE KEEP DISCUSSION TO THE MOTION MERITS OF THE MOTION. UM, AND I, I KIND OF WANT TO CAUTION AGAINST ANY, UM, SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONS TO A PARTY ON HOW TO PROCEED OTHER THAN IN ADVISING THEM THAT HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO, UH, EXPLORE THE ISSUE FURTHER AND FILED A SUBSEQUENT COMPLAINT. I DON'T WANT TO TRY TO, UM, SUGGEST HOW A COMPLAINT SHOULD BE WRITTEN OR THAT A COMPLAINT SHOULD BE VAGUE IN ITS ALLEGATIONS. UM, SO I, I THINK MR. CASINO IS APPRISED OF THE FACT NOW THAT, UM, THERE MAY HAVE BEEN A PROBLEM IN THE EYES OF THE COMMISSION WITH THIS COMPLAINT AND THAT HE CAN, UH, EXPLORE THE ISSUE FURTHER IF HE SO CHOOSES, UM, AND DISCUSSING THE MOTION, UH, I'LL OFFER A QUICK COMMENT AS WELL. I THINK I'M GOING TO BE SUPPORTING THE MOTION. UM, AND I THINK THAT THE, I THINK THE RESPONDENT HAS LEARNED THAT THERE ARE CAMPAIGN FINANCE RULES AND THAT THEY ARE IMPORTANT. UM, AND, UH, BUT, UH, FOR REASONS I'VE PREVIOUSLY DISCUSSED, I'LL BE VOTING FOR THE MOTION TO DISMISS, UM, ANY OTHER DISCUSSION COMMISSIONERS ON THIS MOTION SPECIFICALLY. OKAY. SEEING AND HEARING NONE, THEN I'M GOING TO PROCEED TO A ROLL CALL ON THIS MOTION, AND I'M GOING TO GO IN ORDER INSTEAD OF THE FEATURES ON THE AGENDA. I'M GOING TO MAKE SURE THAT I AM THE RIGHT PLACE. SORRY. I'VE GOT JUST A MESS OF THINKERS. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO PLEASE UNMUTE YOURSELF, UM, SAY YOUR VOTE. I'LL REPEAT YOUR VOTE BACK TO YOU AS CONFIRMATION, AND THEN PLEASE SUBSEQUENTLY MUTE YOURSELF. SO IN THE ORDER THAT IT APPEARS CHAIR SOBER ON VOTES, AYE. VICE CHAIR, OR HEARD VICE CHAIR OVER HER. HE VOTES. AYE. SECRETARY LEARNER, SECRETARY LERNER VOTES. AYE. COMMISSIONER DANBURG. AYE MISSIONER DANBURG VOTES. AYE. COMMISSIONER GREENBERG. MR. GREENBERG VOTES. AYE. COMMISSIONER KALE. VOTES. AYE. COMMISSIONER ELEVEN'S AYE. COMMISSIONER LEVIN'S VOTES. AYE. COMMISSIONER STANTON. I OR YES. MR. STANTON VOTES ARE YES. AND COMMISSIONER TENANT. YUKON. YOU SHOULD MENTION COMMISSIONER MCCORMICK. HOW COULD I POSSIBLY FORGET, UM, COMMISSIONER MCCORMICK VOTES? AYE. AND THE CHAIR EXPRESSES HIS DEEP APOLOGIES FOR SKIPPING OVER COMMISSIONER REQUIREMENT. I BELIEVE THAT IS 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10. NO, THAT'D BE NINE. IS THAT CORRECT? 10. THANK YOU SO MUCH, LYNN. UM, I DIDN'T KEEP THE NORMAL TELLY THAT I HAVE. SO 10 EYES, ZERO NAYS, UM, AND ONE ABSENT. SO THAT MOTION PREVAILS AND THE COMPLAINT IS DISMISSED. UM, MR. CASINO AND MR. SWINDLER, THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE THROUGHOUT THIS PROCESS. THANK YOU FOR YOUR PARTICIPATION, UM, IN THE PROCESS. AND, UM, THAT IS ALL YOU'RE, YOU'RE DISMISSED IF YOU'D LIKE TO LEAVE. UM, AND WE'LL PROCEED WITH THE REST OF OUR MEETING, BUT THANK YOU VERY MUCH, BOTH OF YOU. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO THAT IS GENDER ITEM [01:15:01] TWO. OKAY. [3.(a) Draft Op-Ed by the Working Group on Race, Identity, and Equity ] COMMISSIONERS THEN AGENDA ITEM THREE IS NEW BUSINESS. SO WE HAVE, UH, TWO THINGS DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING THREE, A DRAFT OP-ED BY THE WORKING GROUP ON RACE, IDENTITY AND EQUITY. AND YOU'D BE DRAFT COMMISSION STATEMENT ON EQUITY ACCESS AND THE NEED FOR REFORM BY THE WORKING GROUP ON RACE, IDENTITY, AND EQUITY. UM, SO, UH, HAPPY TO TURN IT OVER TO THAT WORKING GROUP TO SEE IF THERE ARE UPDATES. UM, AND I KNOW AS A MEMBER OF THAT WORKING GROUP, I SHOULD HAVE SOME UPDATES AS WELL. AND I APOLOGIZE THAT I HADN'T PARTICIPATED A WHOLE LOT IN WHAT THAT WORKING GROUP'S BEEN DOING OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF WEEKS, BUT I TALKED COMMISSIONER COCO. YEAH. I'LL JUMP IN AND I NEED TO RELABEL BETTER WHAT THE PORTION I WORKED ON. UM, SO MY, UM, DRAFT OR THE ONE THAT I WORKED WITH CHAIR SOVEREIGN, SO GARONNE AND, UM, COMMISSIONER LORIANNE. IT, LAURIE IS, UM, IT STARTS WITH WHO IS ON THE ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION. THAT'S THE INTRO PARAGRAPH. AND I'M JUST TELLING YOU THAT. SO, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE RIGHT DOCUMENT. UM, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO READ THROUGH IT YET OR NOT, BUT THE GOAL OF THIS, UM, IS, IS TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE COME UP IN THE COURSE OF OUR MEETINGS, WHICH IS, UM, PUBLIC CITIZENS. UH, FOR THE MOST PART, AREN'T AWARE, EVEN IN SOME CASES OF THE EXISTENCE OF THE BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS, UH, MUCH LESS HOW TO GET IN CONTACT WITH US HELPS YOU FILE COMPLAINTS, JUST THE PROCEDURAL ASPECTS OF WHAT OUR COMMISSION DOES. AND, AND THAT EVEN CAME UP IN OUR LAST, UM, UH, OUR MEETING IN JUNE WHERE, UM, QUESTIONS OF ACCESS. AND, UM, IN FACT, I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW COMMISSIONS WERE A THING TO USE, YOU KNOW, SORT OF THE JARGON UNTIL I WAS APPOINTED TO ONE. SO, UM, SO THE PURPOSE OF THIS DRAFT IS TO PUT THAT INFORMATION OUT THERE. AND AS WE TALKED ABOUT AT ONE OF OUR MEETINGS A FEW MONTHS AGO, WE WOULD LIKE TO PUT IT IN A LOT OF THE PERIODICALS. UM, IT WOULD BE GREAT TO HAVE IT OBVIOUSLY DIGITAL AND IN PRINT AND AS MANY OF THE LOCAL PERIODICALS AS POSSIBLE. SO OBVIOUSLY THE STATESMAN IS THE BIGGEST ONE, THINGS LIKE THE AUSTIN CHRONICLE AND THEN SOME OF THE COMMUNITY PAPERS THAT ARE AROUND TOWN. UM, I HAVE NOT DRAFTED A LIST OF THE LIST OF THOSE YET, AND I COULD DO THAT BY OUR NEXT MEETING, BUT I JUST WOULD ASK YOU ALL TO TAKE A LOOK AT THIS. UM, LYNN HAS READ IT OVER FOR ME AND, UM, DOUBLE-CHECKED SOME OF MY PROCEDURAL STATEMENTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT AND THE CONTACT INFORMATION AND HOW IT ALL WORKS. AND SO I WOULD ASK YOU ALL TO LOOK OVER THAT AND PERHAPS AT NEXT MONTH, OR WHENEVER BE PREPARED TO TAKE A VOTE ON IT OR, OR, OR WHICH IS WHAT THE NEXT STEPS ARE TO GET THIS IN SOME KIND OF FINAL FORM THAT WE SUBMIT TO THESE VARIOUS OUTLETS, COMMISSIONER GREENBERG. UM, AND THEN I SEE COMMISSIONER MCCORMICK, AND THEN I'VE GOT A COMMENT AS WELL, YOUR GREENBERG, I READ IT OVER. AND I JUST FELT REALLY UNCLEAR. WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE? ARE WE TRYING TO GET MORE PEOPLE TO APPLY FOR POSITIONS? ARE WE TRYING TO GET MORE PEOPLE TO FILE COMPLAINTS? UM, WHAT EXACTLY IS THE GOAL? SO I WAS GOING TO GOAL AS, UM, WELL, BOTH OF THOSE THINGS, BECAUSE I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE, BUT MORE PEOPLE WOULD APPLY IF THEY KNEW WE EXISTED. I ALSO THINK THAT PEOPLE WHO AREN'T IN THE KNOW POLITICALLY, UM, OR OTHERWISE, UM, IT WOULD EMPOWER THEM WHEN THEY SEE THINGS WITHIN THE COMMUNITY, IF THEY HAVE VALID REASONS TO FILE A COMPLAINT TO DO SO. ANOTHER, ANOTHER MAJOR GOAL OF THIS IS TO, UM, TO ENCOURAGE PARTICIPATION REMOTELY. WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO, UM, CITIZEN, CITIZEN COMMUNICATION, WHO SHOW UP TO TALK TO US ABOUT SOME OF THESE ISSUES. AND, UM, I THINK INCREASING THEIR VOICE, UM, IS A BIG PART OF THIS. UM, I WOULD SAY TOO, I MEAN, THIS IS MY FIFTH YEAR ON THE COMMISSION AND WE SEE A LOT OF THE SAME POLITICAL PLAYERS. WE SEE A LOT OF THE SAME COUNCIL COME BEFORE US. UM, AND [01:20:01] I PERSONALLY WOULD LIKE TO CHANGE THAT. I WANT TO GIVE EVERYBODY A VOICE IN WHAT IS HAPPENING OUR CITY, BUT I MAKE A DRAFT. I MEAN, EDIT AWAY. I'M TOTALLY, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT TO TWEAK IT OR YOU WANT TO CHANGE THOSE GOALS OR, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER, I'M TOTALLY FINE WITH THAT. OBVIOUSLY, MS. JENNER MCCORMICK HAD AT HAND AND, UH, COMMISSIONER KENNEDY, YOU OKAY. AS THE LONGEST ONE ON THIS COMMISSION, WE WENT FROM A COMMISSION THAT WAS A SLEEPY LITTLE COMMISSION, HAD A FEW PUBLIC COMMENTS AND THEN CODE STUFF. THEN TEN ONE HIT. AND WE HAD NINE MEETINGS BETWEEN, UH, JULY AND THE MIDDLE OF JANUARY. THEN WHAT TWO OTHER PLACES THAT WE COULD ADVERTISE? ONE IS IN THE AUSTIN ENERGY BILL AND THEIR NEWSLETTER. THE OTHER ONE IS TO MAKE NEIGHBORHOODS AWARE OF THE AUSTIN NEIGHBORHOOD COUNCIL. IF THAT'S WHAT WE, I GET CALLS FROM PEOPLE THAT WANT ABOUT ETHICS COMPLAINTS, AND THEN THEY'LL TELL ME, OH, WHAT, WHAT IT IS. AND IF IT'S AN ALWAYS SOMETHING THAT WE CAN DO, BUT THE WHOLE CITY NEEDS TO BE PROBABLY MORE AWARE OF OTHER COMMISSIONS. THEY KNOW THAT THE PARKS COMMISSION, THEY KNOW ABOUT THE ZONING, BUT I'VE BEEN PAYING CAUSE THEY DON'T ALWAYS KNOW ABOUT IT UNLESS THEY HAVE DEFINITE COMPLAINTS. SO LIKE I SAID, THE CITY OF AUSTIN WEBSITE COULD USE A WHOLE LOT OF IMPROVEMENT, BUT IF THAT'S WHAT WE WANT TO DO, THERE ARE TWO PLACES THAT WE COULD GET MORE VISIBILITY IS IN THE AUSTIN ENERGY. AND THEY DO ADVERTISE, UH, US WHEN WE HAVE FORUMS AND ALSO THE AUSTIN NEIGHBORHOOD COUNCIL. THESE ARE GREAT IDEAS. THOSE ARE GREAT OUTLETS. ABSOLUTELY. YEAH. CAUSE THEY'RE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE REALLY GOING TO BE INTERESTED IN THINGS IS ESPECIALLY IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD COUNCILS. AND A LOT OF THE NEIGHBORHOODS HAVE VERY SMALL COUNCILS AND THEY'RE NOT REAL ACTIVE. IT'S NOT LIKE ALLENDALE WHERE IT'S KATY BAR THE DOOR WITH US. SO THERE'S A COUPLE OF PLACES. OKAY. THAT'S IT. RIGHT. UH, SORRY, COMMISSIONER TENET, YUCA. UM, AND THEN, UH, I HAD, UH, I HAD A COMMENT AS WELL AND THEN STANTON. SO WE'LL GO , I'LL SAY A THING AND THEN STANTON. SO GO AHEAD, COMMISSIONER, TELL YUCA, JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT I AGREE THAT WE NEED TO GIVE THE CITIZENS OF VOICE, UM, AND MAYBE A LITTLE BIT MORE EDUCATION ABOUT THE COMMISSIONS. CAUSE I, AS WELL DIDN'T KNOW THAT THEY EXISTED EITHER AND I WAS BORN AND RAISED HERE. UM, I DO, WOULD, I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW, IS THERE A LIST OF OTHER THINGS THAT THE WORKING GROUP IS WORKING ON? UM, LIKE ALL OF THE THINGS THEY'D LIKE TO SEE IMPROVED IN THIS COMMISSION. CAUSE JUST MY SHORT EXPERIENCE WITH THIS GROUP, I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE SOME SUGGESTIONS AS WELL AS SOME THINGS THAT COULD USE IMPROVEMENT, UM, AND MAYBE POSSIBLY BE ON THE GROUP TO HEAR WHAT'S GOING ON AND MAYBE OFFER MY ASSISTANCE IN CONTRIBUTING TO SOME OF THAT, IF THAT'S OKAY. WAIT, THERE'S A WORKING GROUP. UM, THAT UNDER BETSY THAT IS, UM, SUPPOSEDLY LOOKING AT WAYS TO STRENGTHEN THE CODE, REALLY LIKE LOOKING AT KIND OF LIKE THINGS ACTIONS AND WHAT WE CAN ACTUALLY DO, WHAT OTHER, WE WERE LOOKING AT SORT OF COMPARATIVELY AND, UH, JUSTIN AND BETSY AND I ARE ON IT. WE HAVEN'T, YOU KNOW, IT NEEDS SOME REINVIGORATION FOR SURE. BUT THAT MIGHT BE SOMEPLACE THAT YOU'RE INTERESTED IN. YEAH. I, I AM INTERESTED IN THAT IF YOU GUYS COULD SIT ME DOWN FOR THAT. AND I ALSO JUST WANTED TO SAY, I THINK THERE'S SOME OPPORTUNITIES FOR SOME OF THE COMMISSIONS TO WORK TOGETHER. SO MAYBE THEY'RE LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, SOME EDUCATION TO THE COMMUNITY. I KNOW THAT THERE'S SOME COMMUNITY COMMISSIONER OUT THERE. UM, SO MAYBE THERE ARE SOME AREAS THAT WE CAN JUST KIND OF WORK WITH EACH OTHER ON STRENGTHENING SOME OF THESE AREAS THAT I THINK HAVE SOME GAPS. YEAH. UH, ONE, YEAH. IN ONE, UM, A COUPLE OF QUICK OBSERVATIONS ONE, UM, WE W WE WE'LL GET TO THOSE WORKING GROUPS THAT ARE DOING LIKE, KIND OF THE, HOW WE'RE GOING TO CHANGE, UH, CODE AND PROCEDURE IN A MINUTE. AND I'VE GOT SO, OH MAN, I SHOULD BE KEEPING A [01:25:01] TALLY OF THE THINGS THAT I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THERE. BUT, UM, SPECIFICALLY ON THIS STATEMENT, ONE THING, UM, THAT I THINK, UM, IT COULD USE, AND THIS IS COMING FROM, SO IT'S COMING FROM SOMEONE WHO IS TECHNICALLY A LAWYER, UM, IS I THINK WE COULD USE LESS LAWYERLY LANGUAGE, UM, LIKE A LOT LESS LAWYERLY LANGUAGE. UH, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE, WE CAN HAVE LIKE SOME SPARSE CITATIONS TO CITY CODE, BUT OTHER THAN THAT, I THINK IF THE GOAL IS, UH, EDUCATING PEOPLE THAT WE, WE ARE HERE, UM, I THINK WE COULD EVEN HAVE LIKE A INTRODUCTORY PARAGRAPH THAT IS SORT OF LIKE, WHY ARE YOU READING THIS? WHY IS THIS IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO PUT YOUR EYES ON? UM, JUST KINDA LIKE A, UH, SORT OF INFORMAL, WHY WE'RE HERE, LIKE THE CITY OF AUSTIN AS A BOARD AND COMMISSIONS THAT TALK ABOUT ALL SORTS OF IMPORTANT THINGS FROM, YOU KNOW, WHAT GOES ON WITH YOUR PARKS, FROM WHAT WE DO WITH ZONING, UH, ANY NUMBER OF THINGS. ONE OF THEM IS THE ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION THAT TRIES TO MAKE SURE THAT CITY OR THAT AUSTIN CITY, GOVERNMENT, UH, COMPORTS ITSELF WITH INTEGRITY AND THAT THE ELECTIONS IN THE CITY ARE FAIR. AND THEN START TO KIND OF HAVE A, LIKE, TAKE THIS GREAT DESCRIPTION OF WHAT OUR AUTHORITY IS AND WHAT, HOW CITIZENS CAN PARTICIPATE. UM, AND SPECIFICALLY THE AUTHORITY PART, LIKE KIND OF MAKE IT VERY PLAIN LANGUAGE. LIKE WHAT ACTUALLY DO WE DO? WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE? SO, YEAH, YEAH, I HEAR YOU. AND THAT WAS A, THAT'S A CHALLENGE. LIKE I WANT TO SAY EXACTLY WHAT WE DO AND NOT GET IT WRONG, BUT IT ALSO HAS TO BE ACCESSIBLE IN THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN NOW IT'S, IT'S NOT VERY ACCESSIBLE. AND SO I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THAT. YEAH. AND I'LL, I'LL OFFER THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN I, WHEN I WRITE THINGS, UM, IN MY DAY JOB WHERE IT'S THE TECHNICAL SUBJECT, BUT IT'S FOR A PRESS RELEASE OR A WIDER AUDIENCE, MY FIRST DRAFT IS OFTEN HYPER-TECHNICAL TO MAKE SURE THAT I GET IT RIGHT. AND THEN SUBSEQUENT DRAFTS, UM, UH, I WILL KIND OF THINK TO MYSELF, LIKE, WHAT IS, WHAT DOES THIS SOUND LIKE IF IT'S NOT COMING OUT OF MY MOUTH, IF I'M THE RECEIVER AND I DON'T KNOW, YOU KNOW, ABOUT WHATEVER SUBJECT IS. UM, BUT ANYWAYS, UH, STANTON, AND THEN I'LL GO DANBURG UM, I THINK STANTON ST GO AHEAD. YEAH. THANK YOU. FIRST COMMISSIONER KALE. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR DRAFTING THIS AND DOING THEIR SIDE, UH, COMPLETELY AGREE. THIS IS AN EXCELLENT IDEA, MUCH NEEDED AND A CHAIR. SO BRIAN, YOU TOOK THE WORDS OUT OF MY MOUTH. THAT WAS THE SECOND COMMENT THAT I HAVE ABOUT THIS IS WORD CHOICE. YOU KNOW, LET'S MAKE IT EASY FOR EVERYDAY PERSON TO READ AND UNDERSTAND. AND ALSO, UM, WHAT MIGHT ALSO HELP I'D LIKE TO OFFER THIS SUGGESTION IS INSTEAD OF WRITTEN IN PARAGRAPH FORM, WHICH, YOU KNOW, JUST KIND OF LOOKS LIKE A PAPER, UM, IF WE COULD USE BULLET POINTS, RIGHT. JUST KIND OF, UM, SHORTEN AND THEN, YOU KNOW, DRAW YOUR EYES TO, YOU KNOW, WHO ARE WE, YOU KNOW, AND JUST KINDA SHORT BULLETS, UM, BULLET POINT, WHAT DO WE DO? AND THEN THE THIRD COMMENT IS, UH, ALSO IN SUPPORT OF WHAT, UH, THE CHAIR, HIS COMMENTS ABOUT HE, YOU KNOW, ASKED, UM, OR HE SUGGESTED TO PUT OUT FIRST, WHY IS THIS IMPORTANT? LIKE, WHY SHOULD YOU BE READING THIS? AND IT ALIGNS WITH WHAT I WAS THINKING, WHICH IS, WHAT CAN THE ERC DO FOR YOU? UM, WHY SHOULD I BE INTERESTED IN THIS? RIGHT. I MEAN, IT'S A GOOD, GREAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALWAYS ASKING FOR, FOR FOLKS, UH, TO PARTICIPATE AS CITIZENS AND BETTERING OUR, BUT THE OTHER QUESTION THAT I THINK, UM, IS, IS ON PEOPLE'S MINDS IS HOW CAN THIS HELP ME, RIGHT? W AGAIN, WE'RE ALWAYS ASKING FOR PEOPLE TO HELP THE CITY, HOW CAN THE CITY HELP YOU? HOW CAN THE ERC HELP YOU? AND I THINK THAT DRAWS MORE, OH, SO THIS IS WHAT, OH, SO THIS IS WHAT YOU DO. AND MAYBE OUR COMMISSIONS ISN'T AS THE BENEFIT ISN'T AS DIRECTOR PALATABLE AS OTHER COMMISSIONS. BUT I, I STILL THINK THAT IS IMPORTANT. SO THOSE, THOSE THREE COMMENTS, BULLET POINTS, UM, STATING, YOU KNOW, JUST KIND OF PUTTING OUT THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM IS WHAT, WHAT CAN THE UNIVERSITY DO FOR YOU? WHY, WHY IS IT IMPORTANT? WHY WOULD YOU BE INTERESTED IN THE ERC AND THEN, UM, PLAYING LANGUAGE AS, UH, AS THE CHAIR HAD SAID. SO THANK YOU SO MUCH. AND I'D BE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, FOUND MAYBE JUST ONE MINOR EDIT, I'M HAPPY TO, [01:30:01] TO PARTICIPATE IN, IN HELPING REVIEWING THIS. I APPRECIATE YOUR WORK ON THIS. UM, A RELATED THING SOMEONE HAD MENTIONED WORKING WITH OTHER COMMISSIONS, UM, I THINK THAT WAS TENNEY, YUCA THAT COMMISSIONER TELLING YOU TO MENTION ABOUT TO WORKING WITH THE OTHER COMMISSIONS. AND THEN I STARTED THINKING BIGGER, EVEN BIGGER PICTURES WHO WOULD BE TALKED TO, OR AS A SUGGESTION TO ADVERTISE ON OUR CITY BUSES ABOUT GETTING INVOLVED IN BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS, NOT JUST OURS, BUT ALL BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS RIGHT NOW. YOU ONLY KNOW IF YOU'RE IN THE WORK, RIGHT? LIKE I FIRST KNEW, FOUND OUT ABOUT SERVING ON BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS BECAUSE OF MY WORK IN THE COMMUNITY, RIGHT? IT'S, IT'S THE SAME PLAYERS, UM, COMMENT BEFORE, RIGHT? AND IF WE, WE REALLY WANT THIS, WE WANTED ACCESSIBLE BY ANYBODY IN THE COMMUNITY, NOT THOSE WHO ARE, WHO'VE BEEN DOING THIS WORK FOR YEARS ADVOCACY, OR THOSE WHO ARE ALREADY SERVING ON BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS, BUT WE, WE REALLY WANT TO HEAR, AND WE WANT REPRESENTATION BY YOUR AVERAGE CITIZEN, RIGHT. PEOPLE WHO, SO THESE THINGS AFFECT. SO I JUST HAD THAT IDEA OF HOW COULD WE MAKE THAT SUGGESTION WHERE IT WOULD EVEN BE CONSIDERED SERIOUSLY IS ADVERTISING FOR, HEY, WHAT TO MAKE, MAKE THE CITY BETTER, VOLUNTEER ON BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS AND GO TO THIS SITE OR GO TO THE CITY SITE. AND THAT'D BE ON A CITY BUS. YOU'VE BEEN RUNNING THE SHOW ON THIS. SO GO AHEAD AND JUMP IN. I DON'T WANT TO, I DON'T WANT TO BELABOR IT. THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER STAN. I, I, THOSE ARE GREAT IDEAS, WHICH KIND OF, UM, MAKES ME THINK THAT, UM, THAT WE DO NEED TO, UH, INSTITUTE SOME KIND OF EFFORTS SO THAT PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT ALL COMMISSIONS. AND I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE THE BANDWIDTH TO DO, OR JUST HOW WE WOULD DO THAT. UM, THAT'S OBVIOUSLY I DON'T WANT TO SPEND THE NEXT HOUR DISCUSSING THAT THAT'S SOMETHING I CAN EMAIL BACK AND FORTH A LITTLE BIT WITH LYNN ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHETHER WE WANT TO DO THAT. BUT, UM, PARTICULARLY IF WE'RE GOING TO SEND SOMETHING OUT AND I UTILITY BILL, WHICH I JUST SAW, I LOVE THAT IDEA THE WAY WE DO FOR THE, UM, THE CAMP, THE FORUMS, UM, IT SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD NEED TO BE FOR ALL THE CONDITIONS. AND SO MAYBE AT SOME POINT WE ENTERTAIN SOME KIND OF MOTION OR STATEMENT THAT WE SEND TO CITY COUNCIL TO GET, UH, THEIR, THEIR INPUT ON AND, UM, THEIR, THEIR, UM, THEIR BACK THEY'RE BACKING FOR. SO, YEAH. YEAH. UM, ARE YOU WITH THAT? AND DAN BERGAN DENNIS R GREENBERG. SO GO AHEAD. UH, THE WORK THAT COMMISSIONER KALE, THEY'RE ALL THAT Y'ALL HAVE DONE IS IMPORTANT AND IT'S EYEOPENING. AND I THINK WHEN IS SAYING REALLY, I, I, I THINK, AND IT'S WAY BEYOND WHAT WE CAN DO, BUT WE CAN CERTAINLY HELP FORM IT. I THINK WHEN PEOPLE GO TO THE CITY OF AUSTIN, THEY'RE DEPRESSED, IT'S LIKE, IT'S LIKE A PHONE TREE YOU CAN BLOW TO GETTING IN TOUCH WITH YOUR COUNCIL MEMBER DOT. AND I DIED AT DA. YOU COULD ALSO GO TO AN ENTIRE GRID OF WAYS YOU CAN PARTICIPATE THROUGH BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS. WHAT ARE, WHAT IS YOUR PRIORITY TODAY IS YOUR PRIORITY TODAY? PARKS IS YOUR PRIORITY TODAY. UM, ELECTION INTEGRITY, ETHICS IS YOUR PRIORITY TO, YOU KNOW, AND, AND KIND OF DO AN ONLINE PHONE TREE WHERE PEOPLE CAN GO TO MAKE THEIR VOICES HEARD. AND THEN WHEN YOU, WHEN, WHEN YOU'VE CHOSEN TO GO TO THIS PHONE TREE, I JUST WANT TO GET IN TOUCH WITH MY COUNCIL MEMBER, OR YOU GOT TO THIS PHONE TREE. I WANT TO HAVE INPUT. HERE ARE THE THINGS YOU CAN HAVE INPUT ON. YOU COULD HAVE IT PUT ON PARKS, THEY DO THIS, THIS, AND THIS. YOU CAN ADD INPUT ON [01:35:01] ETHICS, THEY DO THIS, THIS, AND THIS. YOU CAN HAVE INPUT ON, YOU KNOW, I, I, AND, AND MAKE IT EASY FOR PEOPLE TO THINK, OKAY, THIS IS WHAT I AM CALLING ABOUT TODAY, OR, OR ONLINE PRIORITIZING TODAY. AND HERE IS HOW I CAN GET HELP. I APPRECIATE THAT. I DO. I WANT TO, UM, JUST CAUTION AGAINST, UH, SPREADING OUR WINGS A LITTLE TOO FAR. UM, IT, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I, MAN, LIKE THERE ARE TIMES, UH, IN, IN MY DAY JOB, I WORK IN THE TEXAS STATE LEGISLATURE AND THERE ARE DAYS WHERE I SAY LIKE, MAN, IF I WERE KING OF THE LEGISLATURE, THIS IS HOW I CHANGE EVERYTHING. UM, BUT THAT IS WELL OUTSIDE OF MY JURISDICTION. UM, AND THIS IS IN A, IN A MEASLY LITTLE OFFICE. UM, SO I, I WANTED TO KIND OF RECOGNIZE, I THINK THAT THIS IS AN IMPORTANT EFFORT THAT I THINK THERE ARE THE, ONE OF THE REASONS I LIKE OUR WORK ON THIS SPECIFIC WEEK. LIKE GETTING THE WORD OUT ABOUT THE COMMISSION IS BECAUSE I THINK THAT THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE IN THE CITY OF AUSTIN THAT ARE PASSIONATE ABOUT GOVERNMENTAL INTEGRITY, PASSIONATE ABOUT CLEAN FAIR ELECTIONS. UM, AND I THINK GETTING THE WORD OUT ABOUT OUR COMMISSION IS GOING TO KIND OF BROADEN THE POOL OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE INPUT WHEN WE CONSIDER RULES CHANGES, WHEN WE CONSIDER, UM, ANY NUMBER OF THINGS THAT AREN'T IMMEDIATELY, UH, KIND OF RELATED TO SOME OF THE NITTY GRITTY HEARING STUFF. UM, BUT ALSO KIND OF THE PRESSURE FRESH IN THE POOL OF IDEAS, CAUSE YEAH, LIKE A LOT OF RETURN CUSTOMERS AND, UH, WHO HAS INPUT ON OUR, ON OUR MEETINGS. SO I THINK, UM, UH, IS IT ALSO AS A NOTE OF CLARIFICATION ON, UH, ADVERTISEMENTS ON BUSES, UM, CABINETRY WAS TECHNICALLY A DIFFERENT GOVERNMENTAL ENTITY THAN THE CITY OF AUSTIN AND THE CITY DOESN'T OWN BUSES, BUT, UM, I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T KNOW WHAT BUDGET, UH, WITH BUDGETARY RESTRICTIONS WE'RE OPERATING WITH. I KNOW WE'RE NOT A COMMISSION THAT MAKES BUDGET RECOMMENDATIONS. UM, SO, UH, LET'S SEE THERE WHO, OKAY. THAT'S LERNER, MCCORMICK AND STANTON IN THAT ORDER. SORRY. I'D HAD MY HAND UP AND PUT IT BACK DOWN. I, I JUST DON'T WANT, I MEAN, I GUESS I JUST WOULD LIKE TO LIMIT THIS CONVERSATION TO, UM, THE PURPOSE OF ON THE AGENDA BECAUSE I DO IT IS NICE TO HAVE TIME TO KIND OF BRAINSTORM WITH EACH OTHER. UM, BUT IT, WE DO TEND TO HAVE VERY LONG MEETINGS HERE. SO, UM, I DO, IT'S NICE TO, I MEAN, IF WE WANT TO SOMEHOW ADVOCATE WITH OUR OWN, UH, SEPARATELY IN OUR PERSONAL OR, YOU KNOW, CAPACITY TO TALK TO OUR COUNCIL MEMBERS ABOUT THAT, THAT'S MAYBE A GOOD IDEA, SO WE CAN ADVOCATE SEPARATELY. BUT, UM, I LIKE THE IDEA OF MAKING A REFERENCE IN YOUR OP-ED MARRIED LIKE THAT. THESE ARE HERE'S WHERE YOU GO TO FIND INFORMATION. I THINK THAT WOULD BE GREAT. AND I I'M HOPING THAT WE DON'T BELABOR THIS CONVERSATION. YEAH. HEAR THAT. THANKS. UM, SO MCCORMICK AND THEN STANTON QUICK. YEAH. TALKING BULLET AND EMAIL IT TO EVERYBODY. THIS IS A CAMPAIGN. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. MISUNDERSTAND THAT. YES. LET ME CLARIFY. I WAS NOT SUGGESTING THAT THAT IS THE ROUTE THAT WE TAKE RIGHT NOW IS TO DO A MASSIVE CAMPAIGN WHERE IT'S WELL OUT OF OUR SCOPE. UM, THAT WAS MORE, UH, DREAMING, RIGHT? HEY, UH, SHOOTING FOR THE MOON. WHAT I, WHAT I AM, WHAT I WILL SUGGEST AS A GOOD, UH, MAYBE STEPPING STONE OR COMPILE, WHICH ALSO, UM, ADDRESSES, UH, UH, COMMISSIONER TELLING YOU CAUSE, UM, INPUT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WORKING WITH OTHER COMMISSIONS. AND I THINK WE CAN DO THIS EASILY IS ONCE WE FINALIZE THIS, THEN SHARE IT WITH THE OTHER COMMISSIONS AS THIS IS WHAT WE'RE DOING AND THEN THEY COULD, HOPEFULLY THEY WOULD, THIS WOULD BE AN INSPIRATION FOR THEM. I KNOW THAT WITH MY TIME SERVING ON THE ASIAN-AMERICAN QUALITY OF LIFE ADVISORY COMMISSION, WE HAD THE SAME CONCERN THAT PEOPLE JUST WERE NOT AWARE OF WHAT THAT COMMISSION DID. AND SO, UM, WE HAD A WORK GROUP SPECIFICALLY FOR OUTREACH. AND SO I THINK THAT THIS WOULD BE A REALLY GOOD IDEAS THAT WE DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT ON THAT COMMISSION COMING OUT HERE, PUTTING IT AS A PART OF THE, YOU KNOW, UM, THE FLYERS FOR A CITY OF BOSTON, YOU KNOW, THE ELECTRIC BILL OR OTHERS. LIKE, THAT'S A GREAT IDEA. AND SO I'M SUGGESTING THAT WE DO THIS AND [01:40:01] SHARE IT WITH THE OTHER COMMISSIONS AND LET THEM TAKE AWAY FROM, FROM OUR EXPERIENCE WHAT THEY WILL, THAT THAT'S THE MOST OF IT AND SUGGESTING CITY, UM, OFFICE, I GUESS, LIAISON STAFF TO TAKE ON AND DO WHAT THEY WILL WITH THE SUGGESTION OF A BROADER, UM, OUTREACH. RIGHT. FOR ALL COMMISSIONS. BUT THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT I WOULD SUGGEST THAT WE TAKE ON, WE, WE HANDLE OUR, OUR HEALTH, OUR BUSINESS FIRST AND DO THAT WELL, SHARE IT WITH OTHER COMMISSIONS. YEAH. I APPRECIATE THAT. UM, YOU KNOW, UH, THE THOUGHT OCCURRED TO ME THAT IF WE HAD ALL THE MONEY IN THE WORLD, WE COULD HAVE A SKY WRITER THAT DOES E R C FOR YOU JOB DONE. UM, AND SO I THINK WE CAN MOVE ON TO [3.(b) Draft Commission Statement on Equity, Access, and the Need for Reform by the Working Group on Race, Identity, and Equity] THREE B. I KNOW THAT, UH, COMMISSIONER LAURIE, AND I THINK YOU SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED, UH, WORKED ON A KIND OF STATEMENT ON EQUITY ACCESS AND THE NEED FOR REFORM. UM, UH, I'LL WE'LL IF ANYONE WANTS TO CHIME IN, I'LL LET YOU CHIME IN. I WAS GONNA SUGGEST THAT SINCE, UM, COMMISSIONER LAURIE WAS THE PRIMARY AUTHOR ON THE STATEMENT THAT, UM, WE, WE COULD DISCUSS IT LATER. UM, I DO HAVE SOME THOUGHTS, UH, BUT I SEE COMMISSIONER, DANBURG HAD A FINGER THAT A HAND OR FINGER. NO, IT'S A FINGER THAT I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. SURE, SURE. OKAY. THEN WE, WE CAN DISCUSS THAT. I THINK THE SUBSEQUENT MEETING, UM, SO WE'RE GOING TO GET TO OLD BUSINESS ITEM NUMBER FOUR. NOW, BEFORE WE JUMP YOUR COMMISSIONER STAND, GO AHEAD. DO WE, AS A MATTER OF PROCEDURE, DO WE NEED TO MAKE A MOTION TO TABLE DISCUSSION OF THIS TOPIC? UM, NO THAT'S NOT, UH, PARTICULARLY NECESSARY. WE MIGHT, UM, JUST THINK BY MAKING A MENTION THAT THIS IS SOMETHING WE WANT TO DO AT OUR NEXT MEETING, THAT'S KIND OF SUFFICIENT. IF WE WANTED TO BE A LITTLE MORE BY THE BOOKISH, THEN WE COULD, UH, ONCE WE GET TO AGENDA ITEM SIX, WHICH I'M ABOUT TO ACTUALLY, UM, KIND OF GO THERE AND SAY SPECIFICALLY, LET'S MAKE SURE THAT THIS IS ON THE AGENDA, BUT LYNN IS IF NOTHING, UH, FASTIDIOUS NOTE TAKER. UM, AND I THINK THAT YOU WILL UNDERSTAND THAT OUR, UH, DISCUSSION ON THIS KIND OF PASSING ON TAKING FURTHER ACTION AND DISCUSSION MEANS THAT WE'RE GOING TO, UM, TAKE IT UP NEXT TIME. UM, SO I DO WANT TO MOVE [6. FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS AND ANNOUNCEMENTS (Part 1 of 2)] INTO ITEM FOUR, BUT BEFORE THAT, UM, I GUESS BY THE BOOK, UH, WANTED TO QUICKLY JUMP INTO DISCUSSION OF FUTURE ITEMS AND SPECIFICALLY AN ANNOUNCEMENT, UM, TO EVERYONE. IF YOU DID NOT KNOW, UH, OUR CHAIR, JAY MICHAEL HURRIES, UM, THERE WE GO. UH, SO OUR VICE CHAIR IS, UH, EFFECTIVE TOMORROW. I BELIEVE NO LONGER GOING TO BE OUR VICE CHAIR AND NO LONGER GOING TO BE OUR COMMISSIONER. UH, AND THAT IS, UH, I'M JUST GOING TO SAY AS A POINT OF PRIVILEGE, UM, A TRAGEDY FOR THE COMMISSION ONLY BECAUSE YOU'VE BEEN SUCH AN ASSET. UM, I THINK YOU'VE BEEN A COMMISSIONER. YOU WERE ON THE COMMISSION WHEN I JOINED. UM, AND IT WAS, I ALWAYS LOOKED UP TO YOU AS KIND OF LIKE, WOW, HE ASKS GOOD QUESTIONS. HE LISTENS. UM, EH, I JUST WANT TO THANK YOU PERSONALLY FOR YOUR SERVICE AND YOUR WORK ON THE COMMISSION. UM, IT'S BEEN SOMETHING I'VE ALWAYS ADMIRED AND LOOKED TO WHEN WAS FIRST FIGURING OUT HOW DO I DO THIS THING? UM, SO I WANTED TO THANK YOU AND MAKE THAT POINT BEFORE WE GOT TO FOUR, BECAUSE I'VE GOT SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT FOUR AND YOU'RE ON ONE OF THOSE WORKING GROUPS, BUT FLORA'S OPEN IF ANYONE ELSE WANTS TO EULOGIZE OUR DEARLY DEPARTMENT COMMISSIONER BEFORE HE LEAVES. UM, I SEE COMMISSIONER DANBURY, GO AHEAD. IT'S ALL PROSECUTORS HAD THE ETHICS OF J MICHAEL O'KEEFE YURI. WE WOULD BE IN A MUCH BETTER PLACE. UM, I WANT TO SAY SOME BANG. YEAH. SO, UM, I NOMINATED JUSTIN TO BECOME THE VICE CHAIR. SO I DO FEEL A LITTLE BIT LIKE YOU'RE LETTING ME DOWN, BUDDY, BUT I JUST HAVE LOVED, YOU ARE JUST REALLY SUCH A QUALITY HUMAN BEING AND YOU'RE SUCH AN UPSTANDING COMMISSIONER AND PERSON. SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, JUST TO HOPEFULLY ALL GOOD THINGS FOR YOU GOING FORWARD AND WE ALL, UM, HOPE TO FOLLOW YOU NEXT BIG, BIGGER AND BETTER THINGS. [01:45:01] HMM. WELL, HEY, THANK YOU. UH, THANK YOU TO EVERYONE ON THE COMMISSION. THANK YOU TO, TO LYNN CARTER AND HER SERVICE. SHE'S BEEN HERE A WHILE AS LEGAL COUNSEL. UM, IT IS CERTAINLY BEEN A PRIVILEGE AND AN HONOR TO BE ABLE TO SERVE WITH THE COMMISSION. THERE ARE JUST A FEW THINGS GOING ON, FAMILY OBLIGATIONS. I'LL PUT IT. THE TIMING IS RIGHT FOR ME TO, TO MOVE ON FROM THE COMMISSION. BUT AGAIN, THANK YOU. I WILL SAY THAT ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE ENJOYED ABOUT THE COMMISSION IS HEARING DIFFERENT PEOPLE'S PERSPECTIVES. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAKE THIS COMMISSION VERY UNIQUE IS THAT WE GET LAWYERS AND NON-LAWYERS, AND WE PUT THEM ALL TOGETHER. AND WE SAY WHAT THE VIEW, THE CODE AND MAKE A DECISION. AND THE REASON WE DRAW PEOPLE FROM DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE CITY IS BECAUSE, UH, OUR LIFE EXPERIENCES, TO SOME EXTENT, I BRING SOME CONTEXT TO HOW WE SEE, UM, THE RULES AND WHAT I WOULD SAY, WHAT I WOULD CAUTION AND ENCOURAGE EACH OF THE COMMISSIONERS TO CONTINUE TO DO IS, UM, THIS JOB, WELL, THIS VOLUNTEER JOB CAN BE DIFFICULT BECAUSE WE DO RECEIVE COMPLAINTS. UM, SOMETIMES FROM ANONYMOUS COMPLAINANTS, SOMETIMES FROM INDIVIDUALS THAT HAVE, UH, SOME POLITICAL, UH, BONE TO PICK, WHICH IS FINE. WE STILL KEEP PRAYING AT THE, AT THE GOAL ITSELF, BUT NEVER TO LOSE SIGHT OF MAKING SURE THAT WE, WE GIVE A FAIR VOICE TO ALL PERSPECTIVES, UH, IN THE CITY, WHETHER THAT'S AT OUR REGULAR PERSPECTIVE, WHEN IT COMES TO SEX OR IT COMES TO RACE BECAUSE OF RELIGION OR EVEN COMES TO POLITICAL COMES FROM, AND I'VE READ THE POLITICAL VIEWPOINT. WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE TRY TO TREAT EVERYONE AS FAIRLY AS A KID AND GIVE THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SERVE. UH, IT HAS BEEN, UH, ONE OF THE MOST EXCITING VOLUNTEER OPPORTUNITIES I'VE BEEN A PART OF. SO THANK YOU SO MUCH. I WILL MISS YOU ALL DEARLY. OKAY. YEAH, GO AHEAD. UH, WE HAVE MUTUAL FRIENDS, SO WE SEE EACH OTHER OUTSIDE OF THIS. WE ALSO BELONG TO SOME OF THE SAME GROUP. SO WE ALSO SEE EACH OTHER AND I'M SURE I'LL KEEP SAYING YOU, RIGHT? YES. USUALLY KEEP SAYING YES. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. WELL, I JUST WANTED TO AT LEAST, UH, TAKE A PIT STOP IN OUR MEETING TO ACKNOWLEDGE, UH, THE SERVICE AND THE MOVING ON OF VICE-CHAIR OR HURRY, UM, AND USE THAT AS A SEGUE, UH, TO TALK [4.a. Working group status reports and/or recommendations on the following. i. Working Group on Sanctions, Procedures, and other Issues (Chair Soberon, Vice-Chair Ohueri, and Commissioners Greenberg, Lerner, and Stanton) on the following subjects: - Commission sanctions including effectiveness, past cases, and recommendations. - Potential amendments to City Code, Chapter 2-7 (Ethics and Financial Disclosure). - Commission procedures including effectiveness, past cases, and recommendations. - Scope of work of the Commission (powers, duties, and obligations), including effectiveness, past cases, and recommendations. - Potential amendments to the Rules of the Ethics Review Commission. - Best practices for city attorney opinions including effectiveness, past cases, and recommendations. ii. Working Group on Race, Identity, and Equity (Commissioners Kahle, Lari, and Soberon) status report and/or recommendations on: addressing issues of race, identity, and equity including: (i) planning for presentations or trainings by the Equity Office; (ii) helping focus the Commission’s evaluation of racial injustice and how the] IN OUR OLD BUSINESS, WE GOT THESE WORKING GROUPS AND, UH, VICE-CHAIR OR HEARD HE WAS IN ONE OF THOSE WORKING GROUPS. SO THAT WORKING GROUP IS THE NOW COMBINED. UH, WE DID THAT, I THINK TWO MEETINGS AGO, MAYBE, UM, THE COMBINED WORKING GROUP ON SANCTIONS PROCEDURES AND OTHER ISSUES, UM, THAT WORKING GROUP, UH, IS COMPRISED OF MYSELF, THE VICE CHAIR AND THEN COMMISSIONERS, GREENBERG, LERNER, AND STANTON. UM, SO THERE IS OFFICIALLY AN OPENING ON THAT WORKING GROUP, UM, AND WANTED TO FIRST, UH, SEE IF ANYONE WAS INTERESTED. I HEARD, UH, COMMISSIONER TENOR, YUCA EXPRESS AN INTEREST IN BEING ON THAT WORK IN GROUP. UM, AND YOU'LL SEE KIND OF A DESCRIPTION OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE LAID OUT FOR THE WORKING GROUP TO LOOK AT. UM, BUT, UH, SO HAPPY TO ENTERTAIN SOME DISCUSSION THERE. I WILL SAY SECRETARY LEARNER'S SUGGESTION A LITTLE WHILE AGO ABOUT REINVIGORATING THAT WORKING GROUP, UM, IS WELL TAKEN AND SOMETHING I WANTED TO SPEND A LITTLE BIT OF TIME TALKING ABOUT, BUT, UM, I THINK THE ONLY LIMITATION IS THAT WE CAN'T GO BIGGER THAN QUORUM ON THE WORKING GROUP. SO THE FACT THAT IT CAN'T GO UP TO GO FIVE IS THE MAX, RIGHT? SO WE CURRENTLY HAVE FIVE, WELL, YES, UH, FOUR WITH THE DEPARTURE OF VICE-CHAIR OR SO YOU DO HAVE AN OPEN SEAT. GO AHEAD, MR. LIEUTENANT YUCA, I'M INTERESTED, BUT IF ANYBODY ELSE IS REALLY INTERESTED AS WELL I'M, UM, IF ANYBODY HAS A STRONG INTEREST AND I'M HAPPY TO ROTATE. OKAY. UM, WELL I THINK, UH, I THINK WE'RE FINE. I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S, THERE'S NO LIKE OFFICIAL ACTION THAT NEEDS TO BE TAKEN. UM, I DON'T, UH, BUT COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, GO AHEAD. I THINK ONE THING THAT WOULD HELP, WE KIND OF USED, UM, [01:50:01] TEXTING TO ARRANGE MEETINGS AND AT THIS POINT, UM, SOME NEW MEMBERS, I DON'T HAVE THEIR TELEPHONE NUMBER. UM, IF THAT COULD BE SHARED WITH, UM, MRS. CARTER, UM, TO BE SHARED, IF THAT'S AN OKAY WAY TO COMMUNICATE. I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T READ THE BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS EMAIL EVERY DAY. UM, SO IT MIGHT BE EASIER TO, TO JUST, UM, ARRANGE MEETINGS BY TEXTING. UM, I THINK WE, IT WAS, WE FOUND THAT FAIRLY EASY, BUT THEN THERE WERE JUST THE THREE OF US, UM, TO ARRANGE THOSE MEETINGS. UM, I DID KIND OF WANT TO MENTION IT'S REALLY A LONG TIME, BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE WE'VE FORMED THE MEETING, THE COMMITTEE WORKING GROUP, NOT COMMITTEE, RIGHT. UM, IN RESPONSE TO A STATESMAN ARTICLE WHERE THEY KIND OF SAID, YOU KNOW, WE CAN HAVE THESE HEARINGS, BUT THEN WE GET TO DECIDE WHETHER TO WRITE A MEAN LETTER OR A LITTLE BIT MEANER LETTER. AND WE WERE KIND OF CONCERNED THAT THAT'S NOT REALLY, IT'S KIND OF A WASTE OF TIME IF THAT'S, I MEAN, HOPEFULLY NOT ALWAYS THE TIME, BUT THAT MAYBE THAT WE COULD HAVE SOME RULES THAT HAD MORE TEETH. I THINK JUSTIN, I THINK YOUR PERSPECTIVE THAT, UM, WELL, MORE TEETH AND ALSO THAT MAYBE, YOU KNOW, WE GET, WE GET BOGGED DOWN IN, IN, UM, AND NOT TDM THAT MINUTIAE AND MY NEW CLAIMS THAT, THAT BORDER ON THIS JUST LIKE LITTLE TIT FOR TAT BETWEEN INDIVIDUALS. AND LIKE, YOU KNOW, WHEN I LOOK AT THE LIST OF BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS, UM, THERE, SO MOST OF THEM JUST DEVISE A COUNCIL, NEW REVISED COUNCIL, AND THIS ONE ACTUALLY MAKES DECISIONS. SO IT'D BE NICE IF OUR DECISIONS WERE MEANINGFUL, BUT IF THIS STEP DOES TAKE TIME AND PEOPLE HAVE TO ACTUALLY DEVOTE TIME TO IT. SO IT'S JUST A CHALLENGE WITH EVERYTHING ELSE. YEAH. AND YOU KNOW, ONE LAST THING I WOULD JUST SAY ABOUT THE WORKING GROUP. SO AS WELL, ONE OF THE GOALS IS TO HAVE TEETH, BUT ANOTHER GOAL FOR ANYONE WHO COMES ON IS ALSO TO CONSIDER A WAY TO, UH, ACKNOWLEDGE THAT SOMEONE THAT HAS CREATED IT AS COMMITTED A VIOLATION, BUT PERHAPS THERE'S NO PUNISHMENT THAT COMES WITH IT. THAT RIGHT NOW IS NOT AN ASPECT OF THE CODE. AND THE REALITY IS WHEN IT COMES TO PROSECUTORIAL BODIES AND PROSECUTORIAL BODIES, BUT THIS IS THE PSEUDO PRESENT OF TOTAL BODY. THERE ARE INSTANCES IN WHICH THOSE BODIES CAN NOT TO HAND OUT A PUNISHMENT. AND THAT JUST IS NOT THE CASE RIGHT NOW, UH, WITH THE COLOR. SO THAT WAS DEFINITELY SOMETHING I WOULD STRONGLY ENCOURAGE THE BODY LOOKS AT DIFFERENT OPTIONS. YEAH. AND I WANT TO THANK YOU SINCE I DIDN'T EARLIER. I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR SERVICE. ABSOLUTELY. ABSOLUTELY. YOU SHOULD AGREE BERG. WE'RE NOT CURRENTLY ON THAT AGENDA ITEM, YOU HAVEN'T CELL PHONE NUMBER, JUST TEXT HIM. I, I WOULD HOPE, UH, UH, VICE GENERAL HURRY THAT. UM, ANY OTHER THOUGHTS THAT YOU HAVE MOVING FORWARD? I, THE THING ABOUT THIS WORKING GROUP IS THAT, UM, I, IN ONE THING THAT I WANT TO HOPEFULLY GET ACROSS IN THE, UH, OP ED THAT WE DISCUSSED EARLIER IS THAT I DON'T WANT IT JUST TO BE KIND OF US PUTTING OUR HEADS TOGETHER. I THINK WE'RE ALL SMART AND I THINK WE'RE ALL PERFECTLY QUALIFIED. UM, BUT WHAT I WOULD, UH, WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO AS WELL WITH THE WORKING GROUP IS KIND OF DO OUTREACH TO FORMER CHAIRS AT THE COMMISSION. THAT'S ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT I THINK COULD HAVE USEFUL COMMENTS ON HOW TO IMPROVE WHAT WE DO, WHAT COULD BE USEFUL. UM, UH, PEOPLE, I MEAN, I SENT A LETTER ACTUALLY TO COUNCIL, UM, AT THE END OF LAST YEAR OR EARLIER THIS YEAR, UM, WHICH WAS, UH, KIND OF IN RESPONSE TO SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT WE'VE BEEN WORKING THROUGH AND WAS AN INVITATION TO COUNSEL. LIKE IF YOU'VE GOT QUESTIONS FOR THESE WORKING GROUPS, OR IF YOU'VE GOT A COMPETENCE AND THOUGHTS TO OFFER FOR THIS WORK IN GROUP, AS WE EXPLORE HOW TO IMPROVE OUR SUBSTANTIVE CODE AND OUR PROCEDURES, PLEASE SEND THEM OUR WAY. UH, I DON'T THINK I'VE GOTTEN ANYTHING IN MY INBOX FROM COUNCIL THEY'RE BUSY, UNDERSTANDABLY. UM, BUT I JUST WANT TO KIND OF LIKE OPEN THE UNIVERSE WITH PEOPLE THAT WE PROACTIVELY CONSULT. UM, SO, UH, ALL THAT TO SAY, UH, VICE CHAIR, UM, YOU'RE OFF THE HOOK TO A DEGREE, BUT WE MAY BE CALLING YOU UP FOR SOME OF YOUR EXPERT, UM, EXPERT ADVICE, UH, SECRETARY, UM, I, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE [01:55:01] TO REPLACE HIM AS AN OFFICER OF THE VICE CHAIR ROLE. WE'VE GOT TIME THAT'LL SO THAT'S, THAT WAS THE OTHER THING I WAS GOING TO DISCUSS UNDER, UM, FUTURE ITEMS. UH, WHEN WE GOT BACK TO SIX, KIND OF JUMPED AROUND JUST TO LIKE HAVE A MOMENT FOR OUR VICE CHAIR AND THEN TALK ABOUT GETTING SOMEONE ELSE IN THE WORKING GROUP. UM, SO I THINK, UM, YEAH, ONE THING THAT I'LL SAY BRIEFLY ABOUT THE WORKING GROUP IS I, UM, OUR DOCKET IS BASICALLY CLEAR AT THIS POINT. UM, WE RECEIVED NO COMPLAINTS. UH, THIS COMPLAINT THAT WE JUST RESOLVED, UM, IS, WAS THE LAST THING THAT WAS KIND OF PENDING. UM, AND THAT SORT OF FREES US UP, I THINK, AS A COMMISSION TO REALLY GO DEEP ON THIS WORK IN GROUP, UM, TO REALLY SPEND SOME DEDICATED TIME TO THINK THROUGH, UH, ARE THERE THINGS WE WANT TO DO WITH OUR PROCEDURES TO CLARIFY CERTAIN THINGS, TO MAKE THINGS MORE EFFICIENT? UM, ONE THING THAT, UH, I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT IN THE PAST IS LIKE, UH, IS THERE A WAY TO DEAL WITH KIND OF FRIVOLOUS, UM, SUBMISSIONS, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, CLARIFYING HOW POSTPONEMENTS WORK THAT WAS SOMETHING WE'VE BEEN THROUGH JUST, UH, OPEN INVITATION FOR ANYONE IN THE COMMISSION TO BRAINSTORM ABOUT THESE THINGS. UM, BUT WANT TO KIND OF MAKE MY INTENTION PRETTY CLEAR TO THE WORKING GROUP ITSELF, UM, OF WHICH I THINK NOW COMMISSIONER ATTENDANT EUCHRE, YOU WERE A MEMBER, UM, THAT I'LL BE, UH, WORKING WITH LENDING MADE SURE THAT I'VE GOT, UH, EVERYONE'S NUMBERS. AND I THINK IT'S PERFECTLY FINE TO JUST TEXT, TO COORDINATE TIMES TO MEET AND TALK. UM, LYNN CAN CORRECT ME IF I'M EVER STEPPING OVER THE TEXAS OPEN MEETINGS ACT LINE. UM, BUT, UH, JUST TO MAKE CLEAR THAT I INTEND TO REACH OUT TO YOU IN THE VERY NEAR FUTURE, UM, TO SET UP TIME TO TALK THROUGH, UH, WHAT THE WORKING GROUPS HAVE, WHAT THE WORKING GROUPS, WHEN THEY WERE TO HAD DONE, UM, BRING IT TOGETHER, UH, AND THEN SEE WHAT WE CAN DO MOVING FORWARD AND PRODUCING SOME CONCRETE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE COULD HAVE HOPEFULLY BY THE FALL FOR THE COMMISSION TO ACT ON. UM, BUT YEAH, GO AHEAD, CHRIS. YOU UNDERSTAND? AM I CORRECT IN UNDERSTANDING THAT WE CANNOT USE COMMISSION TIME FOR WORK GROUP ACTIVITIES OR DISCUSSION? IS THAT CORRECT? NO, NO, NO, NOT AT ALL. UM, SO YEAH, SO THE, THE WORK GROUP IS JUST A WAY FOR US TO HAVE KIND OF DESIGNATED COMMISSIONERS WHO MEET OUTSIDE OF A COMMISSION MEETING THAT'S BEEN NOTICED AND AGENDIZED, UM, TO REALLY TALK THROUGH THESE THINGS AND I'VE KIND OF, UH, JUST A STRUCTURE AND A PURPOSE FOR WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. UM, AND THEN ONCE WE COME BACK, EVERY TIME THIS IS ON THE AGENDA, IT'S OPEN FOR DISCUSSION. UM, SO EVERY TIME I CALL THIS UP, UH, AS CHAIR, UM, I MEAN, WHEN YOU ASK THOUGHTS, LIKE, HEY, BY THE WAY, I WAS THINKING THE OTHER DAY, WHY DON'T WE HAVE A RULE ABOUT THIS? YOU'RE WELCOME TO BRING IT UP AT THAT POINT. UM, AND THE WORK THAT YOU CAN KIND OF LIKE TAKE IT AND RUN WITH IT, UM, AND WE CAN ACT ON IT. SO, BUT COULD WE, COULD WE, AS A WORKING GROUP USE THE COMMISSION TIME, RIGHT? OUR REGULAR STANDING COMMISSION TIME TO ACTUALLY DO WORK WORKING GROUP STUFF, LIKE DISCUSS THE BAY, HEY, COME UP WITH YOUR TIME. SO I THINK TECHNICALLY YES, BUT, UM, WHAT I WANT TO CAUTION AGAINST IS EVERY COM EVERY SINGLE MEETING, HAVING KIND OF AN OPEN, PERMANENT DEBATE ON ALL OF OUR RULES, EVERYTHING UNDER TWO DASH SEVEN, TWO DASH TWO. UM, BUT, UH, I THINK WHENEVER THE, ONE OF THE REASONS WE HAVE A WORKING GROUP, AS WELL AS, BECAUSE IT'S AN ORDERLY WAY TO COME UP WITH A PROPOSAL AND TO KIND OF SPECIFICALLY AGENDA IS WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THIS PROPOSAL AT THIS MEETING. UM, BUT IF ANY COMMISSIONER HAS ANY THOUGHTS ON THE POTENTIAL AMENDMENTS TO CITY CODE TWO DASH SEVEN OR THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THE COMMISSION, UM, OUR SANCTIONS, UH, WELCOME TO BRING IT UP IN OUR OPEN MEETINGS WHEN WE GET TO THIS AGENDA ITEM. UH, BUT THE WORKING GROUP IS FOR PEOPLE TO DO THAT WHEN WE'RE NOT IN A MEETING. SO JUST TO CLARIFY DOKE, UM, SO THAT'S OLD BUSINESS, ANYTHING ELSE UNDER AGENDA ITEM FOUR THAT ANYONE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT? DID NOT. I WAS [5. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: APRIL 14, 2021, MAY 12, 2021, and June 9, 2021 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETINGS. Discussion and possible action regarding the minutes for: (a) the April 14, 2021 regular commission meeting; (b) the May 12, 2021 regular commission meeting; and (c) the June 9, 2021 regular commission meeting.] GOING TO MOVE ON DOWN TO APPROVAL OF OUR MINUTES. WE'VE GOT THREE SETS OF MINUTES TO APPROVE. YEAH. [02:00:02] FIRST I SAW, UH, I LOOKED UP AND I SAW MCCORMICK AND STAN AND I'LL GO MCCORMICK THEN STANTON. I HAVE, I HAVE NOT READ APRIL 14TH. I DIDN'T FIND THOSE, BUT I DID MAY 12TH AND JUNE 9TH AND I RECOMMEND APPROVAL. OKAY. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON OUR MINUTES AND LYNN CARTER FROM THE LAW DEPARTMENT? UM, I DID NOT QUITE FINISH THE APRIL MINUTES, SO I PROMISED TO HAVE THOSE TO YOU FOR THE NEXT MEETING. THAT'S WHY I COULDN'T FIND THEM. YEP. OKAY. AND THAT MAKES SENSE AS WELL. YEAH. I WAS LOOKING AT THE EMAIL AND THE ATTACHMENTS WERE ORDERED FOR SOME REASON. OKAY. THAT IS FINE. THEN COMMISSIONERS, ANY OTHER DISCUSSION COMMISSIONER STANDING? THAT'S RIGHT. OKAY. I'M SORRY. I ACTUALLY HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE WORK GROUP. UM, CHAIR. I WAS JUST WONDERING, DO YOU, ARE YOU ALSO CHAIR OF THE WORK GROUP OR LEAD ON THE WORKERS? THERE'S NO, UH THERE'S NO, I DON'T THINK IT'S A DEMOCRATIC STRUCTURE, BUT THERE'S NOT AN IDENTIFIED LEAD, I MEAN, NECESSARILY, BUT WORKING GROUP BETSY WAS THE LEAD. YEAH. LIKE KIND OF DE FACTO, LIKE ONE PERSON TO KIND OF LIKE, YOU KNOW, DO THE LOGISTICAL ORGANIZING, BUT I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY ONE PERSON WHO'S LIKE REALLY MY, MY OVERALL QUESTION IS I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WHOEVER THE LEAD OR SOMEHOW THAT WORKED GROUP HAS A LIST OF TOPICS, BECAUSE I THINK WE'VE ACCUMULATED AT LEAST TWO TOPICS SPECIFICALLY FOR THAT WORK GROUP. AND I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER HOW THAT HAS CAPTURED THE NOTES. I JUST DON'T WANT THE WORK GROUP TO LOSE SIGHT OF THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE, THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS IN THE WORK GROUP SHOULD THAT'S MY QUESTION IS, DO WE HAVE THAT LIST OF TOPICS AFTER SOMEWHERE? AND SO IN THE AGENDA, UM, EVERY MEETING THAT WE HAVE, OUR WORK GROUP, UH, WE HAVE A LIST OF, UH, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 SPECIFIC SUBJECTS THAT THE WORK GROUP IS FOCUSED ON. UM, AND THOSE SUBJECTS ARE WRITTEN INTENTIONALLY BROADLY SO THAT WE CAN KIND OF LET THE WORK GROUP ORGANICALLY, UH, TALK ABOUT THE REAL ISSUES THAT WE'VE BEEN FACING IN TERMS OF OUR PROCEDURES AND, UH, OUR SUBSTANTIVE CODE. UM, BUT THEY ARE IN THE AGENDA. UM, OKAY. BUT YOU SAID, YOU SAID THAT THEY WERE MORE TOPICAL. LIKE I SEE THE, THE, THE ITEMS, RIGHT. IT'S WHAT I'M ASKING FOR IS SPECIFIC SPECIFIC ITEMS. FOR EXAMPLE, ONE TOPIC THAT I BROUGHT UP IS, UM, REVISING THE FORM, WRITING SOME GUIDANCE, MAKING IT MORE USER-FRIENDLY EASIER FOR, AND, AND I KNOW THAT THAT IS COVERED IN THESE BROAD TOPICS, BUT I, I'M INTERESTED IN MAKING SURE THAT WE, THAT WE DON'T LOSE SIGHT OF THESE SPECIFIC THINGS THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS AS A WORK GROUP. SURE. SO THOSE CAN BE, UH, BECAUSE, UH, OUR WORK GROUP IS FULL, UM, PERSONALIZED. UM, IF YOU WANT TO SEND TO LYNN OF A SPECIFIC LIST OF, UH, YOU KNOW, MORE SPECIFIC THINGS THAT THE WORKING GROUP YOU THINK SHOULD ADDRESS BY ALL MEANS, UM, I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO BE APPROPRIATE TO KIND OF PUT IN THE AGENDA. UM, EVERY MEETING A, LIKE A LIST THAT COULD BE, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY A HUNDRED ITEMS LONG OF DISCRETE THINGS. UM, BUT, UH, APPRECIATE THAT THOUGHT. AND I THINK THAT WE SHOULD BE KEEPING TRACK OF VERY SPECIFIC TOPICS. UM, AND SO JUMPING BACK TO AGENDA ITEM FIVE IS, UH, I'M HERE. I'M READY FOR A MOTION. UM, IF EVERYONE'S GOT IT, I SEE COMMISSIONER MCCORMICK LIGHTENING FAST, GO AHEAD. WE APPROVED IN JUNE THE NIGHT. THOSE ARE THE TWO THAT I'VE READ. OH, THAT IS A PERFECTLY PLANNED MOTION LOOKING FOR A SECOND. UH, UH, YEP. WAS IT LEARNER OR DANBURG FIRST? I'M GOING TO GIVE IT TO LEARNER. I THINK DENVER HAS ALREADY GOT AGAIN A QUICK, NO SECONDS. SO SECOND AND BACK BURNER. UM, I'M GOING TO DO A QUICK ROLL CALL, SO PLEASE. OH, UM, OH, I WAS ACTUALLY REALIZED SOMETHING. I, I, I SHOULD, I WASN'T AT THE APRIL MEETING, SO I PROBABLY SHOULDN'T SECOND. THE, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT MATTERS. YOU'RE FINE TO SECOND THE MOTION. YEAH, SURE. UM, SO YEAH, WE'RE ON THE MOTION NOW. UH, BUT YES, COMMISSIONER STAN, [02:05:01] WE HAVE A SECOND. IS THAT CORRECT? AND IS IT NOW, IS IT NOW OPEN FOR DISCUSSION OR AMENDMENTS? IS THIS CORRECT PROCEDURE WISE OR SO I WAS ABOUT TO CALL THE VOTE, UM, AND TECHNICALLY THE, ONCE THE VOTE'S BEEN CALLED, DISCUSSION'S DONE. UM, UM, I'M HAPPY IF YOU HAVE, UH, SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT YOU WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS ABOUT THE MINUTES, THEN I'M HAPPY TO HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY. UM, BUT OTHERWISE I PREFER TO FOLLOW ROBERT'S RULES SINCE I ANNOUNCED THAT I WAS ABOUT TO CALL A ROLL CALL AND PROCEED, BUT GO AHEAD. IF YOU HAVE, IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU'D LIKE TO ADD ABOUT IT. YEAH. GREAT. YEAH. IS THIS THE PROPER WAY TO IN FRONT OF THE AMENDMENT? OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. UM, SO ON THE MAY MINUTES, AGAIN, IT'S JUST SUGGESTIONS, UM, FOR FRIENDLY AMENDMENT TO ADD FIRST NAMES IN, UM, IT ALL, ALL NAMES, ESPECIALLY FOR THE COMMISSIONERS. SO IN THE MAIN MINUTES OF VICE CHAIR, JUSTIN, IS THAT CORRECT AT HIS FIRST NAME? AND THEN, UM, FOR MY NAME, ADD MY FIRST NAME JUST IN, IN THE US, IN THE FIRST LINE MENTIONED OF THE COMMISSIONER'S NAMES, WHERE IT'S COMMISSIONERS IN ATTENDANCE, EVERYONE ELSE HAS THEIR FIRST NAME. AND I THINK THAT'S SUPPORTING IF WE COULD, AGAIN, FRIENDLY SUGGESTION. UM, I JUST HAVE TO TWO OTHER COMMENTS, I DON'T KNOW. AND THEN THE SECOND COMMENT IS THAT NEXT PARAGRAPH ABOUT THE SENTENCE COMMISSIONER'S NOT IN ATTENDANCE DUE TO THE NECESSITY OF COMPLETING BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS. IS THERE, IS THERE A, IS THERE A WORD MISSING? IS IT COMPLETING BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS TRAINING? OKAY. I WASN'T SURE IF THE INTENT WAS DUE TO THE NECESSITY OF COMPETING BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS OR COMPLETING BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS TRAINING. SO WE COULD ADD IN TRAINING FOR CLARITY SAKE. UM, AND THEN, AND THEN THE THIRD AND FINAL SUGGESTION IS, UM, ON PAGE TWO, UNDER ITEM NUMBER TWO, PRELIMINARY HEARING THE STATEMENTS ABOUT ITEM TWO B WAS TAKEN UP OUT OF ORDER COMPLAINANT, OLIVIA TURF APPEARED WERE SQUANDERED. IT WAS NOT PRESENT WE'VE NAMED AND ALL THE OTHER MINUTES OR THE OTHER MINUTES AND EVERYWHERE ELSE WE'VE NAMED WHO THEY ARE, WHO THE COMPLAINANT IS, OR THE RESPONSE TO THE OUTSIDE COUNSEL, WHO THE EXECUTIVE LIAISON AND ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY. MY SUGGESTION IS TO NAME THE RESPONDENT EXPLICITLY IN THIS ITEM. AND THAT'S MY THIRD AND FINAL SUGGESTION FOR A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT. JUST A QUICK, UH, SO POINT OF CLARIFICATION, UM, WHERE IN THE MAIN MINUTES ARE YOU REFERRING TO, UH, THE RESPONDENT BEING UNNAMED? SURE. ON PAGE TWO UNDER PRELIMINARY, UH, ITEM NUMBER TWO PRELIMINARY HEARING, IT IS THE FOURTH PARAGRAPH. SO IT'S IN BOLD, IT STARTS IT'S THE FIRST BOLD ITEM TO BE WAS TAKEN UP OUT OF ORDER COMPLAINANT, OLIVIA OVER TURF APPEARED AND PUT IN THAT PERIOD, BUT THAT'S A MINOR THING I'M NOT GONNA, UH, WE RESPONDED WAS NOT PRESENT OUTSIDE COUNSEL OR IS IT ONLY, IS IT ONLY YOU NAME THEM ONLY IF THEY ARE PRESENT? I FEEL THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO NAME THE RESPONDENT SHIFT, YOU KNOW, WHAT I'LL, UM, BRIEFLY OFFER THAT? UM, I THINK I APPRECIATE THE THOROUGHNESS IN THERE. I THINK THE TECHNICAL CORRECTIONS AND, UH, OH, MAYBE THE WORD TRAINING, UM, UP AT THE TOP THAT'S THAT'S APPROPRIATE AND I THINK IT'S FINE TO INCLUDE, UH, I THINK THE FULL NAMES, UM, IN THAT FIRST PARAGRAPH AS WELL IS, UH, I THINK FINE. UM, UH, BUT YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT LAST ONE, I JUST THINK, UM, THERE ARE TWO OTHER OCCASIONS IN THE MINUTES IN WHICH THE RESPONDENT IS NAMED IN THE EXECUTIVE SESSION ITEM, AND THEN THE PRELIMINARY HEARING ITEM, UM, BY THE TIME THE DILIGENT CITIZEN IS READING, UH, GETS TO THAT FOURTH PARAGRAPH ON THE SECOND PAGE, THEY WILL KNOW WHO THE RESPONDENT IS, AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S COMPLETELY NECESSARY. UM, BUT I THINK IT DOESN'T HURT. UM, SO, UH, YEAH, DONNA BETH MAKE A MOTION. CAN I MAKE A COMMENT ABOUT MINUTES AND HAVING DONE MINUTES FOR ABOUT 40 YEARS, MINUTES ARE [02:10:01] A GENERAL AS TO WHAT HAS HAPPENED. IT IS NOT A BOOK. IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO BE PRESENTED IN A COURT OF LAW. IT IS A GENERAL WHAT HAS HAPPENED. SO AS LONG AS WE HAVE THE NAMES AND THE PEOPLE OF THE PEOPLE, IT'S NOT, DOESN'T HAVE TO BE CONSISTENT ALL THE WAY THROUGH. I MEAN, WE'VE GOT THE LAST NAME WE HAVE WHO THEY ARE. WE HAVE WHAT HAPPENED? YOU MINUTES ARE TO HAVE SOME ROOM. IT'S NOT A BOOK. RIGHT. I THINK, YEAH. I, YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S WELL TAKEN THAT THE MINUTES ARE NOT A TRANSCRIPTION OR, UM, SIMPLY, UH, TO TRY TO ACCURATELY REFLECT WHAT HAPPENED. YEAH. IT'S TO BE USED IN A PORTER LAW. IT'S, IT'S A GENERAL WHAT HAPPENED, BUT, UH, WELL, IT GOES SO FAR AS TO SAY THAT MINUTE'S NEVER COME UP IN A COURT OF LAW, BUT COME UP. BUT I MEAN, IF, IF THERE'S A KID NITPICKING LIKE THIS, THEN I GET MERITS FOR REGENTS AND STUFF AND IT'S WAS NEVER IT'S MINUTES OR PRIMARILY THE ACTIONS OF WHAT WAS TAKEN AND WHAT HAPPENED. AND THAT'S IT. SURE. I THINK, YOU KNOW, IN LIGHT OF, I APPRECIATE THAT COMMENT, UH, COMMISSIONER MCCARTER. AND I THINK IN LIGHT OF THAT, UM, WHAT I'M GOING TO SUGGEST IS THAT, UH, AN AMENDMENT TO THE MOTION THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING, UM, SIMPLY MAKE REFERENCE TO TECHNICAL CORRECTIONS. UM, SO FOR EXAMPLE, THE EMISSION OF THE WORD TRAINING TO CLARIFY. YEAH. OKAY. LIKE THAT. BUT WHEN YOU GET DOWN TO THE, THE, THESE ARE THE A'S AND THE BUTS THAT'S WELL TAKEN. OKAY. SO, UH, UH, COMMISSIONERS, I'M GOING TO, I'M GOING TO CAUTION AGAINST TOO MUCH DISCUSSION ON THE MINUTES. UM, BUT I SEE, I SAW GREENBERG AND KALE'S HANDS. SO IF EITHER OF YOU HAVE SOMETHING ELSE TO ADD, I'M HAPPY TO HEAR IT. OTHERWISE I WAS GOING TO MAKE A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT TO THE MAIN MOTION THAT WE WERE ON. UM, I'LL JUMP IN IF THAT'S OKAY. BETSY. UM, SO I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, UM, PERIODS OF PUNCTUATION AND THINGS LIKE THAT, I'M NOT GOING TO NITPICK CAUSE I KNOW HOW MUCH WORK THIS IS. I WOULD SAY, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO PUT PEOPLE'S NAMES, FIRST NAMES FOR EVERYBODY. SO I THINK THAT POINT IS VERY WELL-TAKEN. CAN YOU NOT WRITE THEIR NAMES, BUT YOU KNOW, AS LONG AS WE HAVE THE LAST NAMES THAT USUALLY WHAT WE PUT IN WELL, AND I WOULD SAY GIVEN THAT EVERYBODY ELSE'S FIRST NAME IS INCLUDED. YEAH. IF WE WANT TO BE ACCESSIBLE AND WALK THE WALK THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, WE NEED TO PUT EVERYBODY'S FIRST NAME IN FRONT OF THEIR LAST NAME AND GIVE IT OUT FOR TWO COMMISSIONERS. SO I WOULD ALSO SAY AS A HISTORIAN, PEOPLE USE MINUTES FROM A HUNDRED YEARS AGO AND NAMES ARE VALUABLE. THEY GO BACK TO THESE THINGS AND IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO SEE FULL NAMES. YEAH. OH YEAH. AND, BUT AS LONG AS THEY'RE IN THERE SOMEWHERE, THEY CAN GO BACK AND SEE, YOU KNOW, AND OUR NAMES ARE LISTED IN THERE A LOT IN THE INTEREST, IN THE INTEREST OF TIME. UM, WHAT I'M GOING TO HAVE AT THIS MOMENT IS I'M GOING TO MAKE A MOTION TO AMEND THE MOTION THAT HAS BEEN SECONDED AND THAT AMENDED MOTION WILL SOUND LIKE THIS. UH, I MOVE TO AMEND THE MOTION BY INSTRUCTING THAT THE, THE MINUTES FOR THE MAY MEETING, UM, IDENTIFIED THE FIRST AND LAST NAMES OF ALL NAMED COMMISSIONERS AND PARTIES AND THAT ANY FURTHER TECHNICAL ADJUSTMENTS BE MADE ANY FURTHER NEEDED TECHNICAL ADJUSTMENTS. THAT IS MY MOTION. DO I HAVE A SECOND? I HAVE A SECOND FROM COMMISSIONER TENANT. YOU COULD. THANK YOU. THIS IS A DISCUSSION ON THIS MOTION TO AMEND, UM, IS THAT I THINK I SEE SOMEONE FROZE A LITTLE BIT. ANY DISCUSSION ON THE YOKA YES. COMMISSIONER STANDING. GO AHEAD. UH, YOU THINK YOU FROZE FOR A SECOND? UH, YES. I'M SORRY. I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY, I AM NOT SUGGESTING THAT WE USE FULL NAMES WITH EVERY MENTION I'M BEING VERY SPECIFIC. THAT IS FULL NAMES. THE FIRST ONE FIRST MENTION YES. WHICH FIRST MENTIONED ADD. YES. SO TO CLARIFY, UH, FIRST NAMES, UH, FULL NAMES IN THERE FIRST MENTIONED AND OTHER DETECTIVES GOT IT. SO THAT WAS, UH, I DIDN'T, IT WAS COMMISSIONER TENANT, YUCA WHO SECONDED MY MOTION TO AMEND, UM, ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS MOTION TO AMEND. CAUSE THEN WE'RE JUMPING BACK TO THE MOTION. ALL RIGHT, THEN I'M GOING TO JUST, UH, RUN SUPER FAST. UH, EVERYONE BE READY TO UNMUTE. UM, I'M GOING TO SAY YOUR NAME. I WON'T REPEAT THE VOTE, UH, BUT I WILL GO THROUGH THE ROLL CALL. SO [02:15:01] FIRST CHAIR SOBER ON BOATS. I VICE CHAIR TO HURRY. BOTH SECRETARY LERNER, THE COMMISSIONER DANBURG YES. COMMISSIONER MCCORMICK. OKAY. MR. GREENBERG. YES. COMMISSIONER KALE MISUNDERSTANDING COMMISSIONER LEVIN'S AYE. COMMISSIONER TENA, YUCA. THAT IS UNANIMOUS. AND NOW WE WERE BACK ON THE MAIN MOTION. THIS IS TO APPROVE THE MINUTES AND THE MOTION AS AMENDED REFLECTS A, THE NAME CHANGES AT THE FIRST MENTION OF THE MAIN MINUTES AND OTHER TECHNICAL CORRECTIONS AS NEEDED IN THE MAY MINUTES. UM, ANY DISCUSSION GOING ONCE, TWICE, THREE TIMES SOLD, WE'RE GOING TO GO TO THE ROLL CALL AND I'M GOING TO GO PROCEED THE EXACT SAME MANNER. UM, SO IT'D BE READY TO UNMUTE YOURSELVES AND STATE YOUR VOTE CLEARLY. AND BY ONE VICE OR SORRY, STARTING WITH ME CHAIR. SO BROWN VOTES. AYE. VICE-CHAIR NO HURRY. THAT'S TRUE. I HEARD SIZE SECRETARY LERNER, SECRETARY LERNER VOTES. AYE. COMMISSIONER DANBURG. YES. MR. DAN VOTES. YES. COMMISSIONER REMOTE CORMICK COMMISSIONER MCCORMICK VOTES. YES. UH, COMMISSIONER GREENBURG. YES. MR. GREENBERG VOTES. YES. COMMISSIONER KALE, KALE VOTES. AYE. COMMISSIONER STANTON. AYE. MISUNDERSTAND. BUT I, OR YES, COMMISSIONER LEVIN'S. I MENTIONED ELEVEN'S BOATS. I AM CONSIDERED A TENDER YUCA AND THAT IS UNANIMOUS MINUTES ARE APPROVED SUBJECT TO MODIFICATION. OKAY. NOW [6. FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS AND ANNOUNCEMENTS (Part 2 of 2)] WE'RE ON TO FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS AND ANNOUNCEMENTS. WE'VE ALREADY DONE SOME OF THAT WORK. UM, SO I WILL OPEN THE FLOOR. IF ANYONE WANTS TO INTENTIONALLY PUT SOMETHING NEW THAT IS NOT ALREADY KIND OF PREDESTINED FOR THE NEXT AGENDA. LIKE I SAID SO FAR, WE'VE HAD NO COMPLAINTS THAT HAVE BEEN FILED. SO WE DON'T HAVE A PRELIMINARY HEARING, UM, CURRENTLY ON THE SCHEDULE FOR OUR NEXT MEETING. BUT, UH, I THINK WE'VE DISCUSSED KINGS THAT WE WANT TO DO AT OUR NEXT MEETING. THEY INCLUDE SOME OF THE NEWS BINS, NEW BUSINESS THAT WE DIDN'T GET TO POTENTIALLY UPDATES FROM WORKING GROUPS. ANYTHING ELSE? WELL, ONE THING I WANTED TO THROW OUT THERE WAS THAT TYPICALLY MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT, UH, THE COMMISSION, THE MONTH OF JULY OFF, AND THAT DID NOT HAPPEN THIS YEAR. SO FOR HALF, UH, EARLY LABOR DAY CELEBRATION AND GETTING, UH, THE MONTH OF AUGUST OFF, YOU KNOW, THAT, UM, THAT IS A FINE IDEA. UH, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I AM HAPPY TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION AS I CONSIDER TASKMASTER. UH, HERE'S WHAT I'M GOING TO SAY. UM, I DON'T WANT TO, UH, MAKE AN EXPRESS COMMITMENT UNLESS LIKE THERE'S A STRAIGHT UP MUTINY AND SOMEONE MOVES TO SKIP AUGUST. UM, I'LL SAY THAT IF THERE IS SOME KIND OF URGENT COMPLAINT THAT'S FILED LIKE TOMORROW, THERE WOULD BE TIME FOR US TO HAVE IT IN AN AUGUST MEETING. AND I WOULDN'T WANT TO PUT THAT OFF THE TABLE IF PEOPLE WERE IN TOWN, BUT I HEAR YOU. UM, THEY ANNOUNCED TBA. SO WHEN WE'RE DISCUSSING OUR FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS, WE'RE NOT SAYING IT'S GOING TO BE THE NEXT MONTH. THAT'S A SHORTHAND I SOMETIMES USE, BUT THE NEXT MEETING, WHENEVER THAT IS. UM, SO, UH, THE ONLY THING THAT I'LL ADD TO OUR FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS IS THAT WE'LL NEED TO ELECT A NEW OFFICER. UM, SINCE OUR CURRENT VICE CHAIR IS DEPARTING, WE WILL NEED TO FILL THAT POSITION. UM, AND WE CAN TAKE NOMINATIONS AND GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS AT THAT TIME. BUT I AM GOING TO SUGGEST THAT WE PUT IT ON THAT NEXT AGENDA. SO I SEE COMMISSIONER DAMPER, AND NOW WE HAVE SOMEBODY NEW COMING IN TOO. UM, I MEAN, AT SOME POINT WE WILL, OH, I THOUGHT WE HAD SOMEBODY THAT WAS IN 10 NEW ONES THAT WE HAD THREE NEW ONES. I THOUGHT WE HAD ONE MORE NEW ONE COMING IN NASHVILLE. I'M TRYING TO THINK THAT WE'VE GOT, WE'VE GOT OUR THREE NEW ONES. YEAH. I HAVE A FULL HOUSE UNTIL, UH, UNTIL PHIL, DAVE I THINK WE'VE GOT A FULL HOUSE ACTUALLY. UNLESS IF WE WE'VE SEEN, WE'VE GOTTEN, YEAH. I BEEN, YOU KNOW, GOOD. I AM NOT ASKING PERMISSION TO LEARN OF THIS AND I DON'T KNOW IF SHE WOULD BE OPEN TO THIS AT ALL, BUT SHE HAS DONE A WONDERFUL JOB AS A SECRETARY. [02:20:02] UH, SHE CERTAINLY HAS AN ANALYTICAL MIND. AND SO IF HE'S INTERESTED IN BEING A VICE CHAIR, I CERTAINLY WOULD NOMINATE HER. SHE'S ALREADY FILLED IN ONE TIME TO HELP OUT WHEN Y'ALL WEREN'T THERE. MY VERY FIRST ON MY DEBUT. YEAH. ISN'T THAT FUN. MY FIRST TIME, UH, AS VICE CHAIR WAS ACCOMPANIED BY MY FIRST TIME CHAIRING, UH, WE HAD A BIG PROBLEM THAT NIGHT. WE, SO IT WAS WILD BECAUSE THE MAYOR WAS THERE. IT WAS A WHOLE, OH, I REMEMBER THAT. OH MY GOSH. REMEMBER THAT WE WERE NOT HAPPY WITH THE OUTCOME. OH MAN. IT WAS, IT WAS A LEARNING EXPERIENCE. I'LL SAY THAT MUCH. UM, WHAT I'LL SAY IS WE'RE NOT CURRENTLY AGENDA TO TAKE NOMINATIONS AND HAVE THE ELECTION OF OFFICERS, UH, WHICH IS WHY I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT IT WAS PLACED ON THAT FUTURE AGENDA. UH, I THINK IT'S A WONDERFUL SUCCESS SUGGESTION THAT, THAT WE CAN TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THOUGH. I APPRECIATE THAT. UH, COMMISSIONER DAN BURKE, HEY, THIS IS A QUESTION FOR LAN I, BECAUSE WE HAVE A NUMBER OF NEW PEOPLE AND A COUPLE OLD FARTS LEAVING. IF WE SWEAR TO GOD OR ALLAH OR WHATEVER HIGHER POWER IS THAT WE WON'T TALK ABOUT ANY ITEMS ON THE AGENDA. CAN WE HAVE LIKE A LITTLE RECEPTION AT MY HOUSE AND GET TO KNOW EACH OTHER? YES. YOU JUST HAVE TO PROMISE NOT TO DISCUSS ANY BUSINESS OF THE COMMISSION. I WOULDN'T PUNISH HER. WE WON'T DISCUSS ANY BUSINESS AND THAT'S HAPPENED BEFORE BECAUSE A LOT OF US WILL SHOW UP. WE SHOW UP AT THE SAME ADVANCE AND WE DON'T TALK ABOUT A BUSINESS, BUT I AM ORDER WHAT OLD FARTS BESIDES JUSTIN ARE STEPPING DOWN. I MEAN, DEBRA, ARE YOU TRYING TO TELL US THAT WE DON'T KNOW DEBRA AND I ARE STILL HERE FOR A LITTLE WHILE? I, I THINK, I THINK IT'S A, I THINK IT'S A GREAT SUGGESTION, UH, THAT WE, UH, MEET SOMEWHERE TO GET TO KNOW EACH OTHER. I WAS HOPING THAT THIS WAS GOING TO BE OUR FIRST IN-PERSON MEETING SINCE WE STARTED THE PANDEMIC. I'M HOPEFUL THAT NEXT ONE IS. AND I'M GOING TO MAKE IT A POINT TO TALK TO MY APPOINTING COUNCIL MEMBER ABOUT LIKE, WHY, WHY AM I NOT YET, UH, SKIING? MY COMMISSIONER'S FACE TO FACE, LIKE I WANT TO. UM, BUT I THINK A RECEPTION WOULD BE GREAT AND I WILL LEAVE IT TO LYNN TO TELL US WHETHER OR NOT WE NEED TO HAVE A NOTICE THAT I KNOW IN THE TEXAS HOUSE. FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN THE, UH, COMMITTEES HAVE A DINNER AT THE END OF THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION, THEY HAVE TO ACTUALLY POST NOTICE THAT WE'RE GOING TO HULA HUT AND AVID TO SEE IF ANYBODY READS IT. THAT WOULD BE YEP. THAT SUPPORT THAT YOU, UM, ANY OTHER FUTURE, MY HOUSE IS MADE FOR ORTIZ. WE REDID IT TO HAVE GATHERINGS AND THEY'RE VERY DIVERSE AND I WOULD LOVE TO HOST THIS AND WE'LL JUST FIGURE OUT WHEN, WHEN WE KNOW WHERE OH, SURE. YEAH. WELL, AND YOU LOOK PRETTY SIMPLE TOO. I LOOK FORWARD. I LOOK FORWARD TO AN INVITATION AND I ALSO, I DON'T, I CAN'T REMEMBER IF THIS WAS, UH, BEING BROADCAST ON ATX THEN, BUT SINCE THEY DO TRANSCRIPTS AND LOOKING FORWARD TO A TRANSCRIPT OF COMMISSIONER, DAN BERG VOTED, MY HOUSE HAS MADE FOR PARTIES. UM, ANY OTHER DISCUSSION, ANY FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS, UM, OR ANY FURTHER ANNOUNCEMENTS. OKAY. THEN SEEING AND HEARING, THEN I'M HAPPY TO TAKE US FORMALLY OUT OF OUR AGENDA. SO ADJOURNMENT NO LONGER A VOTE. IF THERE'S NO OBJECTION. SEEING IN HERE, NONE, THE ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION IS GOING TO BE ADJOURNED FOR THIS MEETING. THE TIME IS 9:22 PM ON JULY 14TH, 2021 COMMISSIONERS. THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK, YOUR SERVICE, BE SAFE. UM, STAY COOL. UM, AND JAY, MICHAEL, WE WILL SEE YOU ON THE OTHER SIDE, SIR. I'LL SAY MY NEXT MEETING IS STILL GOING ON AS THE EDC. OKAY, BYE. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.