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[CALL TO ORDER]
OKAY.MY NAME IS LOUIS SOBRO AND I AM CHAIR OF THE CITY OF AUSTIN ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION.
I CALL THE ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION MEETING TO ORDER IS SEPTEMBER 22ND, 2021.
WE'RE AT CITY HALL ROOM 1101, THE BOARDING COMMISSION'S MEETING ROOM.
UM, AND WE HAVE ONE OR MORE COMMISSIONERS THAT MAY BE ATTENDING VIRTUALLY.
SO I'M ABOUT TO CALL THE ROLE.
WHEN I SAY YOUR NAME, PLEASE SAY HERE, IF YOU COULD UNMUTE YOUR UNMUTE, THE ZOOM WORLD IS STILL INFECTING MY DAILY LIFE.
UH, YOU COULD PRESS PUSH TURN ON YOUR MICROPHONE TO SAY HERE AND THEN TURN IT BACK OFF WHEN YOU'RE DONE TALKING.
UM, SO CHAIR SOBER ON HERE SO THEY CAN SEE IN DISTRICT TWO SECRETARY LEARNER.
COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, COMMISSIONER KALE HERE.
COMMISSIONER LAURIE IS NOT HERE.
AND COMMISSIONER TENANT YUCA, I BELIEVE VIRTUALLY EASIER.
SO NEXT WE HAVE CITIZEN COMMUNICATION.
UM, DO WE HAVE, UH, MEREDITH, DO YOU KNOW IF WE HAVE ANYONE SIGNED UP FOR CITIZEN COMMUNICATION? THERE'S NO ONE SIGNED UP.
UM, ALL RIGHT, THEN WE WILL JUMP STRAIGHT INTO OUR AGENDA ITEMS. AND THE FIRST
[1.a. Election of a Commission vice chair due to Vice Chair J. Michael Ohueri’s resignation from the Commission.]
ON THE AGENDA IS OUR NEW BUSINESS ITEM ONE, A ELECTION OF A NEW VICE CHAIR.UM, SO THIS IS A RESULT OF A COMMISSIONER FORMER VICE CHAIR.
OH, HURRIES RESIGNATION AND STEPPING DOWN.
UM, SO NORMALLY THE FLOOR IS JUST OPEN FOR NOMINATIONS.
IF ANYONE WANTS TO EXPRESS INTEREST IN, UH, APPLYING QUOTE UNQUOTE FOR THE JOB, WE'RE HAPPY TO TALK ABOUT THAT TOO, BUT IT'S OPEN FOR DISCUSSION.
DO WE HAVE SOMEONE THAT HAS THE EXPERIENCE AND IS INTERESTED IN RUNNING? THAT'S BEEN ON THE COMMISSION FOR AWHILE BECAUSE SHE NEEDED TO HAVE THAT BACKGROUND.
DO YOU WANT TO DO THIS AGAIN? VERY KALE, LOUISE, OR COULD YOU GO OVER THE RESPONSIBILITIES REAL QUICKLY? I THINK IT'S A LOT TIMING.
SO, UH, I MEAN, IN A NUTSHELL, IT IS WHENEVER THE CHAIR IS UNABLE TO ATTEND A MEETING OR IS CONFLICTED OUT OF PRESIDING OVER AN ITEM ON THE AGENDA OR A COMPLAINT, THE VICE-CHAIR WOULD ASSUME THE ROLES OF THE CHAIR, WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY PRESIDING OVER THE MEETING.
UM, MAKING JURISDICTIONAL DETERMINATIONS WHEN THERE'S A NEW COMPLAINT, MAKING DECISIONS ABOUT THE TIMING OF HEARINGS.
IF WE HAVE TO POSTPONE A HEARING FOR SOME LEGITIMATE REASON, UM, I CAN POINT TO THE, UH, ARTICLE FIVE OF OUR BYLAWS SAYS BASICALLY WHAT I SAID IN FANCIER LANGUAGE.
UM, SO THAT, IS IT IN A NUTSHELL, ANY, ANY INTEREST, ANY TAKERS, ANY DISCUSSION? UM, I WOULD JUST SAY THAT, I DON'T KNOW.
I MEAN, I AGREE THAT IN A PERFECT ROLE, IT'S SOMEONE WHO'S BEEN HERE FOR A WHILE, BUT I DO HAVE SOME THAT MAYBE WOULD BE INTERESTED.
SO IS IT NOT? WELL, THE REASON I MENTIONED SOMEONE THAT HAD SOME VARIANCE, BECAUSE WE CAN'T GET INTO PEOPLE WHO ARE NEW THAT DON'T KNOW QUITE EVERYTHING.
AND MARY HAS DONE THIS BEFORE.
I DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT WHEN I, WHEN I FIRST DID IT, YOU LEARNED, I LEARNED YOU LEARN ON THE SPOT.
SO IF ANYBODY IS INTERESTED IN DOING IT, I WOULD ENCOURAGE THEM TO STEP FORWARD.
IF NOT, I'M HAPPY TO DO IT OR, YOU KNOW, MAYBE SOMEBODY ELSE, BUT IT IS A GREAT LEARNING OPPORTUNITY AS WELL.
BUT YEAH, AND, BUT FOR SOMEBODY WHO'S BEEN TO A FEW MEETINGS, I THINK THAT WE REALLY NEED TO HAVE A ONE OR TWO MEETINGS IS NOT GOING TO TELL YOU REALLY WHAT WE DO.
UM, SINCE I'VE BEEN ON THE COMMISSION THE LONGEST, RIGHT? WELL THEN I LEAVE THAT LEAVES YOU DONNA, BETH, BETSY AND DON AND DEBRA.
WELL, MARY ARE, YOU SAID I'M HAPPY.
I'M HAPPY TO DO IT, BUT I DON'T WANT TO TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY AWAY FROM SOMEONE.
UH, I'M REALIZING THAT NORMALLY ON ZOOM, THE MUTANT UNMUTE IS HOW I MANAGE PARLIAMENTARY PROCEDURE.
SO I'M GOING TO BE A LITTLE MORE DILIGENT ABOUT RECOGNIZING FOLKS, BUT EITHER WAS
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A NOMINATION BY DONNA BETH MCCORMICK AND A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER GREENBERG.SO DISCUSSION, I DON'T WANT TO ROLL OUT SOMEBODY ELSE FROM BEING PUTTING THEMSELVES FORWARD, OR I DUNNO IF COMMISSIONER LEVIN'S IS INTERESTED, IT'S A GREAT WAY TO GET INVOLVED IN WHAT WE DO.
UM, I'M NOT UNWILLING, BUT I'M, UH, I'M NOT GOING TO RAISE CAMPAIGN MONEY AND CAMPAIGN MONEY.
I'M NOT, I'M NOT UNWILLING, BUT, UM, I THINK THERE'S PROBABLY SOME WISDOM TO SAYING SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN ON THE COMMISSION A LITTLE LONGER.
UM, I, I WOULD DEFER TO THAT UNLESS THERE ARE NO MORE EXPERIENCED MEMBERS WHO ARE WILLING AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE IS SO FAIR ENOUGH.
BUT IF SOMEBODY, I MEAN, THERE'S NO, I DON'T THINK THERE'S A LAW THAT SAYS IF WE, WE, WE DO HAVE ELECTIONS ONCE A YEAR, BUT THERE'S, I DON'T BELIEVE THERE'S ANYTHING SAYING THAT WE COULDN'T CHANGE MID-YEAR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
AND I MEAN, IT'S UM, SO, AND TO BE KIND OF CLEAR ABOUT HOW OPERATIONALLY THIS IS HAPPENING, UM, VICE-CHAIR OR HURRY TECHNICALLY IS A HOLD OVER COMMISSIONER.
SO HE IS STILL AN APPOINTEE TO THE COMMISSION.
UM, BUT HIS RESIGNATION THAT BROUGHT US HERE AS HIS RESIGNATION AS VICE CHAIR.
UM, AND SO UNTIL THERE IS AN APPOINTMENT IN DISTRICT TWO, UM, WHICH I THINK WAS HIS, SORRY.
DISTRICT ONE, WHICH WAS HIS APPOINTING COUNCIL MEMBER.
UM, HE IS STILL TECHNICALLY TECHNICALLY A COMMISSIONER, BUT WE HAVE TO FILL BECAUSE OF THE RESIGNATION FOR VICE-CHAIR.
SO MID-YEAR, THERE WAS AN EXPRESSION OF INTEREST IN SOMEONE ELSE WANTING TO BECOME VICE CHAIR, UM, NOT WITHSTANDING THE KIND OF INCUMBENCY THAT WOULD HAPPEN AFTER TODAY.
THEN THAT'S SOMETHING WE COULD ALSO ENTERTAIN AT THAT POINT.
WELL, AND THERE'S GOTTA BE A LOT OF CHANGES BECAUSE OF THOSE THAT ARE GOING OFF THE COUNCIL AND IN A FEW MONTHS, SO THERE'LL BE A LOT OF CHANGES AND WE'LL HAVE NEW PEOPLE IN.
AND SO WE NEED TO KEEP THE EXPERIENCE PEOPLE UPFRONT AND BECAUSE IT COULD GET A TED HARRY, WHEN WE HAVE SOME OF THE CASES THAT WE MAY HAVE LATER ON.
NO, I I'LL ALWAYS REMEMBER MY FIRST RODEO, UH, CHAIRING A HEARING WAS ONE WHERE THE IMPORTANT PEOPLE SHOWED UP AS WITNESSES.
AND I FELT LIKE I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT I WAS DOING.
UM, AND IT GOT A LITTLE, GOT A LITTLE TENSE THAT DID, UM, COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, THE MID-YEAR APPOINTMENT.
SO WE'RE NOT, YOU'RE NOT TAKING IT ON FOR A FULL YEAR.
WELL, ANY OTHER DISCUSSION COMMISSIONERS? WE HAVE A NOMINATION AND THE SECOND, AND I THINK THEN WE'LL PROCEED TO A VOTE AND WE'LL DO IT THE SAME WAY.
WE'LL DO, WE'LL DO A ROLL CALL VOTE.
WE HAVE OUR COMMISSIONER WHO'S REMOTE.
SO WE'LL DO THE SAME WAY WE ROLL CALLED ROLL FOR THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING.
I'LL JUST GO DOWN THE LIST AND UNMUTE OR PUSH YOUR MIC TO SAY AYE OR NAY.
DANBURG COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, COMMISSIONER KALE.
THAT IS UNANIMOUS WITH AN ABSENCE IN VACANCY.
SO CONGRATULATIONS, VICE CHAIR, KALE COURSE.
THAT IS, UM, I DUNNO IF THAT'S THIS, THIS MAY BE UNPRECEDENTED.
SO CONGRATULATIONS ON SOMEONE COMING BACK FROM CHAIR TO VICE CHAIR, WHATEVER ELSE.
[1.b. Parliamentarian training available to Chair and Vice Chair and option of electing a parliamentarian.]
ITEM ON OUR AGENDA IS NEW BUSINESS, ONE B AND IT IS A PARLIAMENTARY TRAINING AVAILABLE TO THE CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR AND THE OPTION OF ELECTING A PARLIAMENTARIAN.SO NOW THAT YOU'RE VICE CHAIR, IF YOU WANT TO BE TRAINED IN THE WAYS OF PARLIAMENTARY PROCEDURE, THE OPTIONS THERE.
UM, BUT THE OTHER THING THAT, UH, WE WERE GOING TO DISCUSS OUR BYLAWS TECHNICALLY HAVE, UM, AN OPTION IF WE WANT TO HAVE A PARLIAMENTARIAN AS AN ADDITIONAL OFFICER, UM, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE CAN DO,
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UH, THEN WE COULD DO IT RIGHT NOW SINCE WE'RE AGENDIZED FOR IT.UM, NORMALLY THE KIND OF RULES, THE PERSON WHO WOULD BE SORT OF ENFORCING THE RULES OF PARLIAMENTARY PROCEDURE IS SIMPLY THE CHAIR OF THE PRESIDING OFFICER.
PARLIAMENTARIAN WOULD BE SOMEONE TO KIND OF HELP ENFORCE THOSE RULES AND TO KIND OF BE THE PERSON TO ANSWER QUESTIONS ABOUT, IS THIS A PROPER MOTION? HOW DO WE SECOND IT, UM, THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO FLOOR IS OPEN TO DISCUSS IF WE WANT TO GIVE ME A CENTER GREENBERG IN PARLIAMENTARIAN BEFORE ON OTHER COMMISSIONS AND WOULD VOLUNTEER FOR THAT.
IF THE COMMISSION WANTS TO HAVE ONE, BASICALLY THE PARLIAMENTARIAN JUST STEPS IN IF THERE'S A QUESTION, RIGHT? ANY OTHER DISCUSSION COMMISSIONERS, MR. GREENBERG? DANBURG SORRY.
WE USED TO HAVE THE BIRD CAUCUS IN THE LETTER.
UM, I DON'T, I DON'T WISH TO BE PARLIAMENTARIAN, BUT, UH, IF THEY WOULD MAKE THAT TRAINING AVAILABLE TO ANY OF US, IT'S BEEN 15 YEARS SINCE I WAS DOING IT EVERY DAY.
SO IT WOULD BE FUN TO HAVE A REFRESHER, I THINK.
NO, I THINK WE COULD DEFINITELY PUT THE QUESTION FOR IT.
I MEAN, IT WAS VERY PRETTY EXPLICITLY FOR THE CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR AT THIS TIME, BUT MAYBE, MAYBE IF WE EXPRESSED INTEREST, WE COULD SEE IF THERE'S, OF COURSE I'LL PASS THAT ON TO LYNN WHEN SHE GETS BACK.
BUT I THINK THAT THE CLERK'S OFFICE HAD SAID THAT THIS ONE IS LIMITED IN SPACING AND THAT WHEN THEY OFFER IT AGAIN, THEY WILL LET US KNOW.
UH, SO BETSY, CAN YOU, UH, COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, UM, CAN YOU DESCRIBE A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT HOW I'VE ALSO BEEN PLACES WHERE THERE'S A PART OF THE ENGINEERING, BUT I CAN'T REALLY IMAGINE KIND OF HOW THAT WOULD WORK.
LIKE IF, IF WE WERE DOING THE WRONG PROCEDURE AND THEY WOULD STEP IN AND SAY, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, THIS IS THE INCORRECT PROCEDURE.
OR EVEN JUST, WE KNOW WE NEED A MAJORITY VOTE.
IS THAT A MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE HERE IS THAT SIX COMMISSIONERS, JUST TO ANSWER A SORT OF QUESTIONS THAT DO SEEM TO COME UP.
I MEAN, I'M NOT, I'M NOT AGAINST IT.
I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT, WHAT DOES THAT, I DON'T KNOW, LIKE MY CHAIR, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING IF THERE'S YEAH, I KIND OF, I KIND OF LIKED THE IDEA, FRANKLY.
I THINK IT'S A NICE BACKUP BECAUSE I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS CHAIR, I WOULD HAVE TO PERIODICALLY LEAN OVER AND SORT OF DISCUSS OFF THE, YOU KNOW, IN HUSHED TONES, UM, WHAT TO DO NEXT KIND OF A THING.
UH, EVEN THOUGH I'D READ THROUGH ROBERT'S RULES MULTIPLE TIMES AND EVERYTHING, I THINK IT'S, UH, I THINK IT WOULD BE A NICE RESOURCE FOR US TO HAVE, PLUS I WOULD LOVE TO DO THE TRAINING.
I KNOW, I KNOW I AM GOING TO TRY TO MAKE THE TRAINING.
I WENT TO THE TRAINING, UM, MUST HAVE BEEN THREE, MAYBE FOUR YEARS AGO NOW.
UH, I REMEMBER GOING TO A TRAINING ON PARLIAMENT ON ROBERT'S RULES.
I FOUND IT TO BE REALLY USEFUL AND INTERESTING, AND THERE'S A LITTLE YELLOW SLIP THAT I KEPT WITH ME AND I USED TO CARRY AROUND WITH ME EVERYWHERE.
AND IT WAS A PERFECT LITTLE CHEAT SHEET OF, UM, YOU KNOW, DEBATABLE MOTIONS, LIKE WHAT NEEDS A SECOND AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
UM, SO I FOUND IT TO BE REALLY USEFUL.
UM, YES, COMMISSIONER DANBURG.
I UNDERSTAND WHY THEY MIGHT HAVE A LIMITED GROUP, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE WITH ZOOM, UH, YOU KNOW, MAYBE HAVE THE PRINCIPLES IN, IN PERSON, BUT THEN THEY COULD MAYBE SHARE IT ON ZOOM.
THAT WOULD BE REALLY A GREAT OPPORTUNITY, I THINK.
SO, UM, IS THERE ANY, LET'S SEE IF THERE IS ANY KIND OF A FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS SPECIFIC QUESTION OF THE PARLIAMENTARIAN YES.
I WAS WONDERING, IS IT POSSIBLE OR, OR FEASIBLE TO HAVE THAT ROLE OF PARLIAMENTARIAN BE ABSORBED BY STAFF LIAISON THAT CURRENTLY SUPPORTS EACH COMMISSION? SO THEN THERE WOULD BE A PARLIAMENTARIAN ROLE FOR, FOR EACH COMMISSION, WHICH I THINK IS VERY HELPFUL.
SO, SO THAT'S A, IT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
AND I'LL SAY FUNCTIONALLY FOR PARLIAMENTARY QUESTIONS.
UM, WE'VE BASICALLY RELIED ON, UH, STAFF LIAISONS OR THE KIND OF, UH, CITY ATTORNEY THAT'S SITTING NEXT TO US OR OUTSIDE COUNSEL ON OCCASION, IF IT'S A CON DURING YOUR COMPLAINT WHERE WE HAVE OUTSIDE COUNSEL.
UM, AND, UH, SO, YOU KNOW, IF WE, FOR EXAMPLE, IF WE TOOK A PASS ON THIS AND DECIDED WE DIDN'T NEED A SPECIFIC PARLIAMENTARIAN AMONG
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MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION, THAT WOULD LIKELY STILL BE THE PRACTICE WHERE JARED VICE-CHAIR WOULD HAVE THE OPTION OF ATTENDING A MEETING OR TRAINING RATHER ON PARLIAMENTARY PROCEDURE, UM, CONTINUE TO ENFORCE ROBERT'S RULES AS BEST AS WE CAN, UM, WITH THE OCCASIONAL ADVICE OF, UH, LYNN OR LENS, UH, YOU KNOW, COUNTERPART SUCCESS OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE.WELL, SINCE WE HAVE A VOLUNTEER AND WE HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO HAVE ONE ON COMMITTEE, OUR COMMISSION, I SAY, WE'D GO FOR IT AND TAKE THE TRAIN.
AND SINCE WE HAVE THE OPTION AND THE OFFER AND THE OPPORTUNITY, AND FOR NOW, WHAT IS IN THE REALM OF OUR DECISION AS WHETHER OR NOT WE WANT TO HAVE A TRAINING AND HAVE ONE.
SO LET'S SAY WE JUST DO THAT BECAUSE WE CAN'T DECIDE THINGS FOR THE CITY, WHETHER THEY CAN OFFER MORE THOUGHTS OR WHETHER THE STAFF ATTORNEY CAN DO IT.
WE CAN JUST MAKE A DECISION TODAY ABOUT WHETHER WE WANT TO HAVE ONE AND HAVE SOMEBODY TRAINED.
SO IF IT'S, YEAH, THAT'S MY, SO MY TAKE IS WE, WE ACCEPT THE OFFER AND GO FOR THE STUFF FROM THE COMMISSION.
ONE, ONE QUESTION THAT I DO HAVE, AND, UH, SPEAKING OF MAYBE WE NEED A PARLIAMENTARIAN.
UM, SO MEREDITH I NOTICED THAT ON HER AGENDA, UM, IT SAYS THAT WE CAN DISCUSS AND TAKE ACTION ON THE OPTION OF ELECTING A PARLIAMENTARIAN IN CONTRAST TO ITEM ONE A, WHICH IS THE ELECTION OF VICE CHAIR.
UM, WOULD IT BE YOUR, I THINK WE'RE PERFECTLY AGENDIZED TO ELECT, UH, TO NOMINATE AND ELECT A PARLIAMENTARIAN, BUT I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT WAS A FAIR UNDERSTANDING.
IF I'M BEING TOO TECHNICAL, YOU CAN SAY CHAIR, SO BROWN YOU'RE BEING TOO TECHNICAL HERE.
SHE'S ACTUALLY ON, ON NOT ON CAMERA.
I DUNNO HOW TO GET MYSELF ON CAMERA.
THIS IS CAROLINE WEBSTER WITH THE LAW DEPARTMENT AND, UH, I THINK THAT THE WAY THAT'S WORDED, UH, DOES ALLOW YOU TO IN FACT, ELECT SOMEONE TODAY, IF THAT'S YOUR DESIRE TO DO SO.
THANK YOU SO MUCH, MS. WEBSTER.
COMMISSIONER DAN BURKE MIGHT HAVE A QUESTION FOR KARA WHEN YOU HAVE ANY IDEA, IF, UH, THERE WOULD BE A WAY TO MAKE THAT TRAINING AVAILABLE TO MORE OF US, BUT SPECIFICALLY THE CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR AND PARLIAMENTARIAN.
IF WE DO THAT, UH, BUT THEN ALLOW OTHERS OF US TO PARTICIPATE BY ZOOM.
UH, YEAH, I'D HAVE TO TAKE A LOOK.
IF IT WAS SOMETHING YOU ALL WOULD WANT TO DO AT THE SAME TIME, IT'S CAROLINE WEBSTER SPEAKING.
IT WAS SOMETHING YOU WANT TO DO ALL AT THE SAME TIME.
WE MIGHT HAVE TO POST IT AS A MEETING, OR IT MAY BE THAT THE TRAINING COULD BE RECORDED AND YOU COULD EACH WATCH IT ON YOUR OWN TIME.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S VARIOUS METHODS AS TO HOW THAT COULD GO, HOW THAT COULD TAKE PLACE.
I MEAN, LEGALLY, YOU'RE CERTAINLY WELCOME TO TAKE THE TRAINING AND I THINK IT, UH, YOU KNOW, AS, AS IF YOU ALL FIND WOULD FIND IT BENEFICIAL, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S YOUR OPTION TO DO SO IT JUST BE, WOULD BE A QUESTION OF HOW EXACTLY IT WAS IMPLEMENTED.
LIKE I SAID, IF IT WAS ALL YOU TOGETHER, WE'D PROBABLY HAVE TO POST IT AS A MEETING.
UH, BUT THERE'S THOSE OTHER OPTIONS TO LOOK AT.
UH, COMMISSIONER REFORMS, CAROLINE, UH, COULDN'T THE CITY DO IT.
LIKE THEY DO THE ETHICS TRAINING THAT WE ALL HAVE TO TAKE.
AND SO YOU COULD GO AND SIGN IN AND THEY CAN DO IT.
I THINK YOU, YOU MAY BE ABLE TO DO THAT.
IT'S WOULD BE TOMA KICKS IN WHEN IT'S SOMETHING THAT IS ORGANIZED BY YOU ALL AS A COMMISSION.
AND IF YOU ALL ARE HOSTING IT, UH, THEN IT, IT BASICALLY MEETS THE DEFINITION OF A MEETING.
IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT, UH, ANNOUNCED A DIFFERENT TRAINING THAT THE CLERK'S OFFICE OR SOME OTHER ENTITY IS HOSTING, AND YOU'RE JUST GOING TO BE ATTENDING AND NOT ACTUALLY DISCUSSING OR MAKING ANY DECISIONS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, THEN YEAH.
IT COULD PROBABLY BE SET UP THAT WAY.
SO, YEAH, THAT'S A POSSIBILITY AS WELL.
THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER COMMISSIONS THAT CAN USE IT TOO SHORT.
I'VE BEEN THERE TO TWO IN THE MORNING.
CAN YOU HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHAT IS THE OUTCOME OR THE QUESTION AT HAND FOR BIZ, UH, FOR NEW BUSINESS ITEM ONE B I'M UNCLEAR WHETHER WE IS THE QUESTION.
DO WE WANT TO TAKE THE OFFER OF TRAINING THAT'S AVAILABLE TO THE CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR AND, OR DO WE WANT TO TAKE THE OPTION OF ELECTING A PARLIAMENTARIAN OR IF WE TAKE THE TRAINING TO THE CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR, IS IT GOING TO BE EXTENDED TO THE PARLIAMENTARIAN? SHOULD WE CHOOSE TO ELECT ONE? I THINK SO.
UM, ALL OF THE ABOVE, UH, UH, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE CHAIR AND VICE-CHAIR TAKING THE TRAINING, I
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DON'T THINK PRECLUDES OUR ELECTION IN OR NOMINATION AND ELECTION OF A PARLIAMENTARIAN.UM, I ASSUME THAT WHEN WE DO SO, UH, I WOULD HOPE AT LEAST THAT THE PARLIAMENTARIAN WOULD BE ALLOWED TO ATTEND THAT TRAINING.
UM, UNDERSTANDING THAT IT'S INITIALLY KIND OF OFFERED TO THE PRINCIPALS OF EACH BOARD AND COMMISSION THE CHAIR AND VICE-CHAIR, UM, MAYBE THAT IS A POINT OF CLARIFICATION FOR EITHER MEREDITH OR CAROLINE.
IF WE ELECT A PARLIAMENTARIAN, IT WOULD BE PRETTY NICE IF THEY COULD ATTEND THE PARLIAMENTARY TRAINING.
IS THAT THE CASE I WOULD NEED CLARIFICATION FROM THE CLERK'S OFFICE.
UM, I'M READING THE EMAIL THAT THEY HAD ORIGINALLY SENT AND THEY, THEY SPECIFICALLY STATE CHAIR AND VICE-CHAIR HOWEVER WE CAN GET MORE CLARIFICATION.
UM, AND EVEN IF THAT PARLIAMENTARIAN WEREN'T ABLE TO ATTEND THAT TRAINING, UM, I THINK SOMEONE WHO'S AT LEAST FAMILIAR WITH HOW MEETINGS RUN AND PARLIAMENTARY PROCEDURE, GENERALLY HAVING SOMEONE DESIGNATED AS THAT PERSON, UM, WOULD STILL BE HELPFUL IN SOMEONE WHO'S ALSO NOT JUST FAMILIAR WITH ROBERT'S RULES, BUT OUR BYLAWS, HOW ARE SPECIFIC RULES OF PROCEDURE WORK FOR HEARINGS ON COMPLAINTS, UM, AND JUST OTHER THINGS THAT ARE VERY UNIQUE TO THIS COMMISSION, AS OPPOSED TO ALL PARLIAMENTARY SETTINGS.
ANY OTHER DISCUSSION SEEING NONE? THEN I THINK WE HAVE SOMEONE WILLING TO BE A PARLIAMENTARIAN AND THE FLOOR IS OPEN, I THINK FOR NOMINATIONS.
WE HAVE A NOMINATION SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER DANBURG IS OPEN FOR DISCUSSION FOR SPEECHES FOR THE NOMINEE.
IF THE NOMINEE IS SO INCLINED TO GIVE A SPEECH, I'LL TRY TO BE QUIET AND HELP THE MEETING GO MORE EFFICIENTLY, PERSUASIVE CASE, CERTAINLY, RIGHT.
LIKE A GOOD PARLIAMENTARIAN SPOKEN LIKE A GOOD PARLIAMENTARIAN.
THEN I WILL CALL THE ROLE IF THERE'S NO OTHER DISCUSSION IN THE SAME WAY THAT I DID BEFORE, PLEASE UNMUTE YOURSELF, SAY YOUR VOTE AND THEN MUTE YOURSELF AGAIN.
SO STARTING FROM THE TOP CHEER.
SECRETARY LEARNER, COMMISSIONER DANBURG COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, COMMISSIONER KALE COMMISSIONER.
COMMISSIONER MCCORMICK, COMMISSIONER STANTON OR YES.
[1.c. A working group to review, evaluate, and make recommendations on dollar limits established in Chapter 2-2 (Campaign Finance) in accordance with City Code subsection (A)(5) of Section 2-7-30 (Duties) and to review and make recommendations related to the Campaign Finance Brochure for the 2022 elections. ]
IS ONE C WHETHER WE WANT TO HAVE A NEW WORKING GROUP, UM, TO EVALUATE AND MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS ON DOLLAR LIMITS ESTABLISHED UNDER TWO DASH TWO IN ACCORDANCE WITH CITY CODE, SECTION A SUB SECTION EIGHT FIVE OF SECTION TWO DASH SEVEN DASH THREE ZERO, AND TO REVIEW AND MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS RELATED TO THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE BROCHURE FOR THE 2022 ELECTIONS.SO, UH, WE'RE OPEN TO DISCUSS THIS ITEM.
UM, I'M HAPPY TO GIVE A LITTLE MORE BACKGROUND.
WE SHOULD HAVE, UH, YOU SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED, I BELIEVE SOMETHING RIGHT.
NOT PHYSICAL COPIES, BUT AT LEAST AHEAD OF THE MEETING, UM, GOTTEN AN EMAIL, UH, WITH SOME BACKGROUND MATERIAL ON AGENDA ITEM ONE C UM, SO I WILL GIVE JUST A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND IF Y'ALL WOULD LIKE IT.
SO THE CITY CODE ACTUALLY CALLS ON OUR COMMISSION TO ANNUALLY REVIEW THE DOLLAR LIMITS IN OUR CAMPAIGN FINANCE CODE, UM, AND TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT THOSE ARE APPROPRIATE LIMITS.
UM, AND HISTORICALLY, UH, WE'VE BEEN A LITTLE ON AND OFF ABOUT DOING IT ANNUALLY.
I THINK MAYBE WE'VE DONE IT MORE BIANNUALLY.
UM, SO THIS IS, UH, THE, THE WORKING GROUP THAT IT WAS, IS KIND OF CONTEMPLATED BY AGENDA ITEM.
ONE C WOULD TAKE THE WORKING GROUP THAT NORMALLY DOES THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE BROCHURE FOR THE ELECTIONS AND ALSO TASKS THAT WORK IN GROUP, UM, WITH REVIEWING THE CAMPAIGN, UH, FINANCE DOLLAR LIMITS.
UM, AND SO THAT WORKING GROUP, FOR EXAMPLE, LAST TIME, I THINK IT WAS COMMISSIONER MCCORMICK AND KALE THAT DID THE, BOTH THE FORUMS AND, UH, REVIEWED THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE BROCHURE.
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OKAY.UM, SO THIS WOULD BE A WORKING GROUP THAT WOULD DO THAT SAME THING, AND ALSO KIND OF TAKE ON A REVIEW OF THE DOLLAR AMOUNTS IN OUR CITY CODE.
SO COMMISSIONER GREENBERG RELATIVELY RECENTLY, THE MAXIMUM CONTRIBUTION PER PERSON WENT FROM THREE 50 TO 400.
DID WE AS A COMMISSION SIGN OFF ON THAT, OR THAT JUST HAPPENS BECAUSE OF INFLATION? THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
UM, YOU KNOW, I'M AN ACTUALLY, I'M GOING TO PITCH THAT TO CAROLINE WEBSTER.
I UNDERSTAND THAT SHE IS, UH, AN ELECTION LAW XTRORDINAIR.
SO, UM, MS. WEBSTER, UH, IF YOU WANT TO TACKLE THAT ONE, GO FOR IT.
UH, I'D HAVE TO LOOK UP THE SPECIFIC VERBIAGE, BUT IT IS BASED ON A CERTAIN INDEX.
UM, SO IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU ALL REALLY HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF DISCRETION OVER.
I MEAN, YOU CAN'T JUST SUDDENLY MAKE IT $10,000, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, UM, SO IT'S BASED ON A, ON A, ON A PARTICULAR INDEX AND YOU HAVE TO KIND OF HAVE IT WITH A RE REASONABLE RANGE OF THAT.
UH, IF, IF I KNOW THAT THE CLERK'S OFFICE HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN, IN SETTING THAT NUMBER IN THE PAST, UH, IF, IF YOU ALL HAVEN'T BEEN, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING WAS THAT THEY, IN THE PAST, THEY'D ALWAYS BEEN WORKING WITH, WITH YOU ALL TO GET THAT INFORMATION, BUT I CAN, UH, GIVE ME A SECOND.
I CAN PROBABLY LOOK UP WHAT THE INDEX IS, BUT, BUT AGAIN, IT'S NOT SOMETHING WHERE YOU GET, UM, COMPLETE LEEWAY TO CHOOSE ANY SORT OF NUMBER THAT YOU WANT TO ESSENTIALLY, YOU KNOW, IT USUALLY GOES UP A SPECIFIC AMOUNT AND IT IS TIED TO INFLATION AND VARIOUS OTHER THINGS, MR. CHAIRMAN, IF I MAY, YEAH.
UM, AND THIS IS ONE OF THE DOCUMENTS ATTACHED TO THE EMAIL, OR WE RECEIVED THE LIMITS ON CONTRIBUTION TO CANDIDATES.
IT DOES STATE THAT THE CONSUMER PRICE INDEX IS USED, AND THERE'S AN ADJUSTMENT TO THE NEAREST $50.
THAT IS, THAT IS KEYED TO INFLATION.
AT LEAST THE CPI IS MEASURE OF IT.
SO I WOULD PRESUME THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE THAT INCREASE CAME FROM.
AND IT IS IF I'M READING THIS CORRECTLY OUT OF OUR JURISDICTION.
SO WHAT ARE WE BEING ASKED TO LOOK AT? WELL, THAT IS A FAIR QUESTION.
I'VE HAD TECHNICAL ISSUES IN GETTING MY EMAIL.
SO SOME OF THE SAME THING FOR THE FIRST DAY, UM, SORRY, I DIDN'T HEAR THE QUESTION THEN, UH, FROM COMMISSIONER GREENBERG AND, UM, I HAVE, IF THE COMMISSIONERS WOULD ACCOMMODATE ME, I AM, UM, HARD OF HEARING.
SO IF YOU WOULD PLEASE SPEAK LOUDLY, I KNOW WE HAVE THE MICROPHONE MAYBE SPEAK INTO IT.
I APPRECIATE THAT I WILL MOVE.
SO COMMISSIONER GREENBERG'S QUESTION, IF WAS, I THINK, AND FEEL FREE TO CORRECT ME IF THE CAM, IF THE CONTRIBUTION LIMIT, UM, IN OUR CAMPAIGN FINANCE CODE IS TIED TO AN INDEX AND WILL AUTOMATICALLY GO UP AND DOWN ACCORDING TO THAT INDEX, AND WHY ARE WE REVIEWING THE DOLLAR AMOUNTS OR THE DOLLAR LIMITS? AND THAT IS A QUESTION THAT, UH, WE'RE TRYING TO ANSWER.
I BELIEVE THAT THERE IS A PROVISION OF OUR CITY CODE.
THE SHORT ANSWER, I THINK, IS THAT THERE'S A PROVISION OF OUR CITY CODE THAT ASKS THE ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION TO REVIEW IT.
IF THE CONTRIBUTION LIMITS MOVE ON THEIR OWN, THEN WHAT ARE WE REVIEWING? THERE ARE OTHER, UM, DOLLAR LIMITS IN THE CODE THAT ARE NOT CONTRIBUTION LIMITS THEIR EXPENDITURE LIMITS OR THRESHOLDS RATHER.
UM, BUT I'LL LET CAROLINE WEBSTER, I SAW HER, UH, SQUARE BLINK AS THOUGH SHE WERE ABOUT TO JUMP IN.
SO CAROLINE WEBSTER, IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO ADD BY ALL MEANS, I DO.
SO, SO ALTHOUGH IT'S CORRECT, YOU CAN'T ARBITRARILY SET THE NUMBER IT IS BASED ON THAT CONSUMER PRICE INDEX.
IT DOESN'T, THE CHANGE DOESN'T AUTOMATICALLY HAPPEN.
YOU ALSO HAVE A ROLE IN REVIEWING THAT, YOU KNOW, SEEING WHAT IT WAS BEFORE SEEING IF BASED ON THE CONSUMER PRICE INDEX, A CHANGE IS APPROPRIATE.
AND IF YOU ALL DETERMINED THAT A CHANGE, EITHER AN INCREASE, OR I GUESS, CONCEIVABLY A DECREASE THOUGH, IT'S USUALLY AN INCREASE WHAT IS APPROPRIATE, THEN YOU MAKE THAT RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL.
AND SO THERE IS A ROLE THAT YOU PLAY.
IT DOESN'T SORT OF HAPPEN AUTOMATICALLY.
THAT RECOMMENDATION HAS TO COME FROM YOU ALL AFTER TAKING THE LOOK AND MAKING A DETERMINATION, WHETHER A CHANGE IS APPROPRIATE AT THAT TIME.
MR. GREENBERG, UM, I DON'T REMEMBER DOING THAT, BUT MAYBE I WAS ABSENT.
UM, BUT ONE THING, UM, OUR WORKING GROUP IS LOOKING AT IS THE TRIGGER FOR WHEN YOU HAVE TO FILE AFTER EXPENDITURE.
SO THAT'S ANOTHER DOLLAR AMOUNT THAT THE WORKING
[00:30:01]
GROUP IS ANY WAY LOOKING AT.SO I'M NOT SURE IF WE NEED A SEPARATE WORKING GROUP FOR THIS.
MAYBE WE SHOULD TABLE IT UNTIL THE NEXT MEETING.
YEAH, THAT'S AN, SO THAT WAS ANOTHER THOUGHT THAT I HAD, UM, AS, UH, LYNN AND I WERE KIND OF TALKING ABOUT TODAY'S AGENDA.
UM, I WANTED TO HAVE IT AVAILABLE AS AN OPTION, THE OTHER WORKING GROUP.
UM, AND WE'LL TALK MORE ABOUT THAT WHEN WE GET TO THAT ON OUR AGENDA, BUT IT'S SCOPE AND IT'S, UH, I GUESS CHARGE IS BROAD ENOUGH TO ENCOMPASS THIS FUNCTION OF REVIEWING THE DOLLAR LIMITS.
UM, GIVEN THE SCOPE, I FIGURED THAT MAYBE, UH, YOU KNOW, DISTRIBUTION OF THE WORKLOAD MIGHT BE SOMETHING WORTH CONSIDERING ON THE PART OF THE COMMISSION, BUT I THINK IT'S ALSO APPROPRIATE POTENTIALLY TO SILO THINGS INTO ONE, ONE PLACE, AS OPPOSED TO HAVE DIFFERENT WORKING GROUPS WORKING ON THINGS THAT ARE TOO SIMILAR.
UM, COMMISSIONER DANBURG, AM I MISREMEMBERING THIS, OR IS THAT GROUP ALSO LOOKING AT, UH, ADEQUACY OF THE FINES THAT WE CAN LEVY? YES.
SO I'M HAPPY TO, UM, UH, TABLE THIS, IF WE CAN.
UM, I DON'T THINK THAT WE, WE DON'T HAVE A DEADLINE FOR PRODUCING A KIND OF A RECOMMENDATION TO COUNCIL.
I DON'T THINK, UH, ON THIS SPECIFIC ITEM, BUT SECRETARY LEARNER, GO AHEAD.
SO THIS IS ALSO THE CANDIDATES FORUMS, SO THAT IS NOT GOING TO BE UNTIL AFTER THE PRIMARY IS CORRECT.
THE CANDIDATE FORUM CANDIDATE.
I HAVE NOT GOTTEN ANY UPDATES ON THE CANDIDATE FORUMS, SO I DON'T SEE ANYTHING IN THE IMMINENT PIPELINE.
DO YOU DOCTOR, BUT TYPICALLY WHAT IS, WHEN IS THAT TIME? IT'S AFTER THE PRIMARIES, RIGHT? YES.
IT WON'T BE UNTIL 22, RIGHT? RIGHT.
THIS IS, THIS IS CAROLINE WEBSTER.
SO THE DEADLINE FOR FOLKS TO FILE FOR A PLACE ON THE BALLOT FOR THE CITY COUNCIL IS AUGUST.
AND THE CANDIDATE FORUMS WOULD TAKE PLACE.
UH, ONCE THAT APPLICATION PERIOD IS OVER.
SO, SO YOU HAVE ALMOST A YEAR, WELL ABOUT A YEAR, PROBABLY BEFORE THE FORUMS WOULD USUALLY BE HELD.
IT'S JUST A QUESTION OF, UM, MAKING SURE THAT THE CANDIDATE PACKET THAT IS PREPARED USUALLY HAS INFORMATION ABOUT THE CANDIDATE FORMS. AND SO THE CANDIDATE PACKET IS USUALLY READY, STARTING ABOUT A MONTH BEFORE THAT DEADLINE.
UH, SO, SO PROBABLY AROUND MID JULY, WE PROBABLY NEED TO HAVE A DECISION FROM YOU ALL ABOUT THE CANDIDATE FORUMS OF 2022 CANDIDATE FORUMS USUALLY STARTED SEPTEMBER, UH, NOT VERY LONG AFTER THEY HAVE FILED, AND THEN DEPENDING ON HOW MANY WE NEED, UH, TO FIT THEM IN BEFORE THE ELECTION.
AND WE DIDN'T HAVE SOME BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE REALLY CANDIDATES.
IF WE JUST HAVE ONE CANDIDATE POSITION, SOMETIMES WE DIDN'T THE MOST WE EVER HAD AT A CANDIDATE FORUM WAS 12 GOOD TIMES, UM, 12 CANDIDATE CANDIDATE FORUM.
UH, SO ONE, ONE QUESTION THAT I ACTUALLY HAVE FOR CAROLINE WEBSTER, UM, THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE BROCHURE, IS THAT THE ONE THING THAT I THINK MIGHT BE TIME SENSITIVE IS HAVING A CAMPAIGN FINANCE BROCHURE, UM, IN TIME FOR THE OPENING OF FILINGS, OUR FILINGS CURRENTLY OPEN FOR, UM, UH, POSITIONS ON THE CITY BALLOT, MAYOR AND COUNCIL, THE FIRST DAY TO FILE THIS CAROLINE, THE FIRST DAY TO FILE AN APPLICATION FOR THE BALLOT IS 30 DAYS BEFORE THE FILING DEADLINE.
SO IT'S ON OR ABOUT JULY 22ND, 21ST, 22ND, 23RD, RIGHT AROUND THERE.
AND I KNOW THAT THE CLERK'S OFFICE WILL BE BUSY WORKING ON THOSE CANDIDATE PACKETS BECAUSE THEY DO START GETTING REQUESTS FOR THEM, UM, AROUND THAT TIME.
BUT, BUT YEAH, THAT'S WHEN THAT'S WHEN THE CLERK'S OFFICE IS GOING TO BE BUSY WORKING ON IT IS IN, UH, KIND OF JUNE AND JULY, REALLY, ESPECIALLY JULY OF 2022.
SO, SO THAT'S REALLY THE TIMEFRAME.
IT IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR SOMEONE TO, UM, FILE A PLACE FOR AN APPLICATION FOR PLACE ON THE BALLOT AT THIS POINT.
AND SO THE, THE REAL QUESTION THAT I HAVE IS HOW, HOW QUICKLY WOULD WE NEED TO KIND OF REVIEW AND APPROVE A CAMPAIGN FINANCE BROCHURE BEFORE THE ELECTION? CAUSE, UM, IF SOMEONE, YOU KNOW, IF THERE ARE CANDIDATES THAT ARE INTERESTED IN SETTING UP EXPLORATORY COMMITTEES OR, UM, YOU KNOW, EVEN ANNOUNCING CANDIDACY AND APPOINTING TREASURERS, IT MIGHT BE WHO OF US TO HAVE AN UPDATED OR AT LEAST A REVIEWED CANDIDATE BROCHURE, UM, OR CAMPAIGN FINANCE BROCHURE RATHER.
[00:35:01]
TO HAVING A CAMPAIGN FINANCE BROCHURE? UH, YEAH.I MEAN, I THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO, I DON'T THINK YOU WANT TO WAIT TO START LOOKING AT IT UNTIL JULY OF NEXT YEAR.
I THINK THE CLERK'S OFFICE USUALLY WANTS TO GET THOSE THINGS IN HAND EARLIER, AND YES, THERE WILL BE INTEREST FROM CANDIDATES, AS YOU SAID, WHO ARE FORMING EXPLORATORY COMMITTEES, OR MAYBE THINKING ABOUT MAKING A RUN, ET CETERA.
UH, WE ARE ALSO RIGHT NOW, STILL IN A LEGISLATIVE SESSION, SO IT'S POSSIBLE WE COULD STILL SEE SOME CHANGES TO THESE LAWS.
UM, SO IT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU'D NEED TO LOOK AT RIGHT NOW ANYWAY, BUT I, I WOULD THINK THE WANT TO BE LOOKING AT IT, UH, MAKING ACTUAL CHANGES, I WOULD THINK AROUND SORT OF JANUARY, FEBRUARY, MARCH, SO THAT THE CLERK'S OFFICE CAN GET THOSE PREPARED AND PRINTED AND, AND ON THEIR WEBSITE AND READY FOR CANDIDATES WHO ARE ASKING ABOUT THEM.
THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER, UH, GREENBERG THEN MCCORMICK.
I JUST WONDER IF IT REALLY SHOULD BE SOONER BECAUSE THE FUNDRAISING IS ALLOWED A FULL YEAR BEFORE THE ELECTION, RIGHT.
AND IT IS NOW SEPTEMBER AND THERE ARE ALREADY EXPLORATORY COMMITTEES BEING FORMED.
AND HENCE MY QUESTION IN REFERENCE, UM, I MEAN PROBABLY THE EARLIER THE BETTER, MOST LIKELY, BUT I DON'T THINK IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT REALLY DROP DEAD DEADLINES, I DON'T THINK, I MEAN, LIKE I SAID, WE'RE STILL IN THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION, SO THEORETICALLY SOMETHINGS COULD CHANGE.
I'M NOT SEEING REALLY BILLS FILED ON IT RIGHT NOW, BUT, UM, BUT I MEAN, I THINK THE SOONER, THE BETTER ONCE WE KNOW FOR SURE THE LAWS AREN'T GOING TO CHANGE, I THINK IS PROBABLY A GOOD APPROACH.
WELL, IF, UH, IF WE HAD A CRYSTAL BALL OR A WINDOW INTO THE MIND OF THE GOVERNOR AND WHAT HE'S GOING TO ADD ON A SPECIAL SESSION CALL, THAT WOULD BE, UM, UH, I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE HAS THAT.
UM, BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, THE LEGISLATIVE CHANGES, NOT WITHSTANDING, I THINK IT MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA TO AT LEAST SET UP THE GROUP.
THAT'S GOING TO BE LOOKING AT IT.
UM, SO THAT AT OUR NEXT MEETING, UM, WE CAN MAYBE START DISCUSSING, UH, CHANGES WE MAY OR MAY NOT WANT TO MAKE TO THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE BROCHURE.
SO I'M A LITTLE CONFUSED AS TO WHAT WE CAN CHANGE.
IF IT'S THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE IS GOVERNED BY THE CODE OR THE FEC, RIGHT? LIKE THE EXPLORATORY COMMITTEES ARE SET UP BY THE FEDERAL LECTURE ELECTIONS COMMISSIONER.
WELL, SO THERE ARE, I MEAN, IT'S A FAIR QUESTION.
THE, I THINK THE REAL QUESTION IS, UH, BEFORE US RIGHT NOW IS WHETHER OR NOT WE COULD USE A WORKING GROUP THAT LOOKS AT THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE BROCHURE.
CAUSE I THINK THAT'S THE SAME WORKING GROUP THAT EVENTUALLY IS GOING TO LEAD TO THE CANDIDATE FORUMS. BUT I MEAN, WHAT DOES THE FINANCE BRUSH IS THAT JUST COLLECTING THE INFORMATION THAT IS OUT THERE IN THE WORLD AND PUTTING IN A BROCHURE FOR OUR CANDIDATES SO THAT THEY KNOW WE'RE NOT MAKING OUR, OR IS IT ASKING US TO MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT IT'S JUST, IT, WOULD IT BE A BROCHURE THAT TELLS YOU WHAT THE LAW IS, RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT.
SO, UH, MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT CORRECT.
UH, WELL WE MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS ON CAMPING FINANCE, BUT WE DON'T CHANGE THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE CODE DIRECTLY.
UM, AND I THINK IN REVIEWING THE BROCHURE, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS, YOU KNOW, INTELLIGIBILITY, IS IT IN PLAIN ENGLISH? UM, ARE THERE ANY RECENT CHANGES TO CAMPAIGN FINANCE RULES, UM, THAT ARE RELEVANT TO THE BROCHURE? OKAY.
SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT UPDATING SOMETHING THAT EXISTS AND THEN, OKAY.
SO, AND SO WHAT I'M HEARING FROM OTHER COMMISSIONERS IS WE PROBABLY OUGHT TO GET THAT UPDATED BEFORE PEOPLE START GETTING IN MOTION, SO THAT IT'S A MODERNIZED, UPDATED BROCHURE.
I SAW COMMISSIONER DANBURG AND I THINK I SAW COMMISSIONER STANDS.
AND SO DAN BURKE FIRST, AND IF YOU, IF YOU COULD LET ME KNOW, IS, IS THERE ANYTHING, WHEN SOMEONE IS CHOOSING TO RUN AS A CANDIDATE, UM, GET A CAMPAIGN TREASURER, ET CETERA.
AND WHEN THEY'RE CHOOSING TO PUT PROPOSITIONS ON THE BALLOT, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT THOSE CANDIDATES OR, OR TREASURERS HAVE TO SIGN SAYING I'VE BEEN GIVEN THIS I'VE BEEN MADE AWARE OF THAT I WILL, YOU KNOW, ABIDE BY IT, ET CETERA, BECAUSE LESS WITH CANDIDATES, BUT VERY OFTEN WITH PROPOSITIONS, WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO SAY, I'VE NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE I WAS TAKING SOMEBODY'S ADVICE.
AND I DON'T, YOU KNOW, I CAN'T FORM NEGATIVE INTENT BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW.
UH, WELL, WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL.
WE'RE NOT GETTING OFF THE AGENDA HERE.
I MEAN, I CAN JUST QUICKLY RESPOND THAT THE ANSWER TO THAT IS NO,
[00:40:01]
THERE IS.I MEAN, WHEN YOU'RE USING THE CLERK'S SYSTEM, THERE'S AN ACKNOWLEDGEMENT THAT YOU KIND OF READ THE INSTRUCTIONS WITHIN THAT SYSTEM, BUT WE DON'T GIVE LEGAL ADVICE TO FOLKS OUTSIDE WHO ARE NOT CITY EMPLOYEES OR CITY OFFICIALS.
SO, AND WE DON'T GIVE CAMPAIGN ADVICE TO CITY OFFICIALS, UH, BECAUSE THEN THEY'RE ACTING LIKE CANDIDATES, NOT LIKE CITY OFFICIALS.
SO, YOU KNOW, SO NO, WE DON'T, WE DON'T GIVE THEM ANY LEGAL ADVICE.
WE'LL REFER THEM TO THEIR OWN ATTORNEY OR TO THE TEXAS ETHICS COMMISSION.
SO JUST TO CLARIFY THE ITEM ONE C IT IS TO REVIEW AND MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS ON THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE BROCHURE.
BUT WITHIN THIS BROCHURE COULD BE RECOMMENDATION TO REVISE THE DOLLAR LIMITS.
IS THAT CORRECT? SO THEY SEPARATE SEPARATE OH YES.
SO IT IT'S, UH, THE WAY I UNDERSTAND AND, UH, I'M REALIZING THAT THERE MIGHT BE SOME GRAMMATICAL SYNTACTICAL AMBIGUITY, BUT IT WOULD BE A WORKING GROUP THAT WOULD DO TWO THINGS.
ONE IS TO REVIEW THE DOLLAR LIMITS AND ANOTHER IS TO DO REVIEW AND MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS ON THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE BROCHURE.
AND SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE WERE DISCUSSING IS WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS NECESSARY TO HAVE A WORKING GROUP LOOK AT THE DOLLAR LIMITS, GIVEN THE THINGS THAT WE WERE DISCUSSING.
AND SO NOW WE'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT THE WORKING GROUP BEING TASKED TO REVIEW THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE BROCHURE.
UM, SO SECRETARY LEARNER, YES.
AND SO CAROLINE WEBSTER, THE, THE, WHAT I HEARD OUR TASK IS, IS TO THE DOLLAR AMOUNT IS PEGGED TO THE CONSUMER PRICE INDEX.
BUT WE TAKE, WE HAVE A ROLE TO SORT OF LIKE SAY YES OR NO, RIGHT? LIKE THAT.
SO YOU HAVE A ROLE IN SAYING, YES, THIS NEEDS TO BE ADJUSTED.
AND THIS IS WHAT, BASED ON THE CONSUMER PRICE INDEX, WE RECOMMEND A NEW CAMPAIGN FINANCE LIMITS ARE.
AND THEN WHEN YOU'RE DOING THE BROCHURE, THERE ARE VARIOUS THINGS IN THE BROCHURE, BUT IT WILL INCLUDE, UH, INFORMATION ABOUT THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE LIMITS.
I'M NOT SURE IF THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION.
I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT WE HAVE, I THINK, A SUBJECT TO DISCUSSION.
I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE ONE COMMITTEE TO DO BOTH, BUT THAT'S JUST PERSONALLY I FEEL THAT WAY.
LEN THAT IS THAT I THINK THAT'S OR THE EXISTING WORKING GROUP.
I JUST MEAN, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW THAT I SEE A NEED FOR TWO SEPARATE ONES, UNLESS IT'S EASIER BECAUSE THEY'RE JUST MORE DISTINCT.
UM, I AM PERSONALLY FINE EITHER WAY.
UH, IF WE WANT TO HAVE, I THINK, I THINK IT WOULD BE WORTHWHILE TO HAVE A DEDICATED GROUP OF COMMISSIONERS LOOK AT THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE BROCHURE.
UM, IF YOU LOOKED AT THE, THE ONE THAT WE'VE HAD, AND THAT WE'VE BEEN RELYING ON, I HAVE, I HAVE THOUGHTS ABOUT WAYS THAT MIGHT BE, UH, UPDATED, UH, FOR AESTHETIC AND CLARITY PURPOSES.
UM, SO I THINK THAT, UH, UH, DISTINCT WORKING GROUP LOOKING AT THAT WOULD BE USEFUL.
AND PART OF MY THINKING IN CRAFTING THIS AGENDA ITEM WAS THAT IF THEY'RE ALREADY GOING TO BE LOOKING AT THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE BROCHURE AND GETTING UP TO SPEED ON CAMPAIGN FINANCE RULES, LIMITS, THINGS LIKE THAT, THEY MIGHT AS WELL LOOK AT THAT AS WELL.
BUT THEY'RE BEING KIND OF THE OTHER THING THAT WE DISCUSSED EARLIER THAT WE ALREADY HAVE A WORKING GROUP.
THAT'S LOOKING AT THE KIND OF BIG PICTURE, WHAT'S THIS COMMISSION DOING WHAT IT'S OUR JURISDICTION, UM, SUBSTANTIVE CHANGES POTENTIALLY TO CODE THAT WE WOULD WANT TO RECOMMEND.
UM, SO IT MIGHT MAKE SENSE TO ALSO KIND OF CONDUCT THAT REVIEW THERE.
UM, SO I THINK, UH, IF I'M HAPPY TO ENTERTAIN A MOTION, IF ANYONE HAS ONE EITHER TO CREATE THE WORKING GROUP AND TO HAVE IT BE ON BOTH OF THESE TOPICS, THE REVIEWING THE DOLLAR LIMITS AND THE BROCHURE, AND WE CAN KIND OF PROCEED WITH DISCUSSION VOTE ON THAT MOTION.
SO COMMISSIONER DAN BERG, I MOVED THAT WE, UH, HAVE THE WORKING GROUP, UH, AS IT EXISTS, LOOK AT THOSE TWO THINGS.
UM, AND I THINK THAT SINCE THIS IS A, UH, RECENT RE UPPING OF THAT WORKING GROUP, WE SHOULD ENCOURAGE ANYBODY ELSE WHO WANTS TO BE IN THAT WORKING GROUP TO S LOVE IT, LET US KNOW.
[00:45:01]
BY COMMISSIONER STANTON.SO DISCUSSION, MAY I ASK A QUESTION ON THE MOST YES.
COMMISSIONER ELEVEN'S, UM, DAN, YOU REFERRED TO THE WORKING GROUP AS IT EXISTS.
IS THERE A WORKING GROUP THAT EXISTS THAT HAS MEMBERS? SO THE WORKING GROUP? YES.
SO ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE, I'M SORRY.
SO NOT ON THE NARROW ISSUE OF DOLLAR LIMITS.
THE WORKING GROUP THAT CURRENTLY EXISTS IS THE, UH, IT'S GOING TO BE UNDER OLD BUSINESS ONCE WE GET TO IT.
AND IT'S THE KIND OF BIG PICTURE, LIKE LOOKING AT THE SUBSTANTIVE CODE THAT WE HAVE JURISDICTION OVER, UM, BECAUSE INTERPRET, YOU CAN INTERPRET THAT WORK IN GROUPS CHARGED TO INCLUDE THE SUBSTANTIVE DOLLAR LIMITS THAT ARE EXIST IN TWO DASH TWO OF THE CITY CODE.
UM, SO THAT IS HOW I'M INTERPRETING COMMISSIONER DAN BRIGGS MOTION.
IS THAT THE EXISTING ALREADY EXISTING WORKING GROUP.
THAT'S LOOKING AT THESE BIG PICTURE QUESTIONS LISTED UNDER OLD BUSINESS.
UH, C WOULD YOU JUST, WOULD YOU JUST COME OUT AND EXPLICITLY NAME IT? CAUSE THERE ARE TWO EXISTING WORKING GROUPS.
UH, THIS IS THE WORKING GROUP ON SANCTIONS PROCEDURES AND OTHER ISSUES.
UH, CHAIRMAN SOVEREIGN HAS BEEN VICE CHARO HEARING AND COMMISSIONERS GREENBERG, LERNER AND STANTON.
I THINK I MIGHT UNDERSTAND IS THAT THE TWO SEPARATE WORKING GROUPS WERE COMBINED INTO ONE.
YES, THERE THERE'S A, THERE IS ANOTHER WORKING GROUP ON RACE EQUITY AND IDENTITY, SO THEY DID NOT.
SO THERE'S STILL A SEPARATE, DISTINCT WORKING GROUP ON RACE, IDENTITY AND EQUITY.
THERE WERE TWO WORKING GROUPS THAT WERE VERY SIMILAR PRIOR TO THAT.
THIS IS MAYBE WHY IT'S ADVISABLE TO JUST HAVE A ONE WORKING GROUP BECAUSE WE HAD BEEN POPULATED WITH WORKING GROUPS LATELY.
SO THERE WERE FORMERLY TWO WORKING GROUPS.
ONE WAS ON THE SUBSTANCE OF THE CITY CODE THAT WE HAVE JURISDICTION OVER.
UM, AND IT INCLUDED THINGS LIKE THE SANCTIONS WE CAN LEVY.
THEN THERE WAS A SEPARATE WORKING GROUP THAT WAS THE PROCEDURES, BYLAWS, UM, HOW THE COMMISSION OPERATES, BUT ALSO TALKED ABOUT SANCTIONS.
SO THOSE WERE MERGED INTO ONE WORKING GROUP.
SUBSEQUENTLY THERE WAS ANOTHER WORKING GROUP ESTABLISHED ON RACE THAT IDENTITY AND EQUITY GOT THAT NAME WRONG.
SO THIS WAS TO THINK OF MAYBE ANOTHER WORKING GROUP COMMISSIONER DAN BURKE SUGGESTION IS THAT WE JUST PUT IT WITH THE EXISTING ONE.
THIS IS AT LEAST THE THIRD OR FOURTH WORKING GROUP WE'VE HAD INVOLVED WITH THIS OVER THE YEARS.
IT STARTED OUT YEARS AGO WITH JUST TWO OF US.
AND WE REPORTED TO THE CITY COUNCIL COMMITTEE AND THEN THERE WAS LIKE THREE OR FOUR OF US.
AND ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE GONE NOW, HERE IS ANOTHER ONE NOW.
SO OVER THE YEARS WE'VE HAD, WE'VE DONE IT ALL ONE WAY.
COMMISSIONER DANBURG IF I'M RECALLING CORRECTLY.
UH, WHEN WE STARTED AT LEAST ONE OF THOSE TWO WORK IN GROUPS THAT GOT COMBINED, IT WAS BECAUSE A NUMBER OF NEW COMMISSIONERS WERE NOT UNDERSTANDING AND WANTED TO UNDERSTAND, UH, SOME OF THE HISTORY, NOT EXACTLY PRECEDENT BECAUSE WE DON'T REALLY HAVE THAT, BUT, BUT BASICALLY HOW IT'S WORKED AND WHY IT HAS WORKED THOSE WAYS.
UM, AND TO THAT EFFECT, I WOULD LIKE TO MENTION THAT, UM, PRESUMABLY VICE-CHAIR HEARING WOULD NOT BE STILL ON THERE.
AND SO IF SOMEONE WANTED TO JOIN, IT WOULD NOT BE A CORPORAL THAT'S.
UM, SO THAT, AND I THINK THAT'S A REALLY GOOD POINT TOO, THAT WE CAN, UH, KIND OF RECONSIDER THE CONFIGURATION OF THAT WORKING GROUP WITH THE VACANCY, UH, COMMISSIONER GREENBERG AND THEN SECRETARY LEARNER.
SO MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT SECRETARY LERNER RESIGNED FROM THAT WORKING GROUP AND THAT, UM, COMMISSIONER TEND TO YUCA IS ON THE, UM, YES, THAT I THINK IS, UH, A SLIGHT TYPO.
I THINK WE MADE IT THE LAST MEETING.
SO THE MOTION THAT HAS BEEN SECONDED IS STILL BEFORE US, UM, THINK I'M GOING TO DO A QUICK ROLL CALL UNLESS THERE'S ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON CREATING AN ASSIGNING TO THIS WORKING GROUP, THESE TWO THINGS, THE DOLLAR LIMITS AND REVIEWING THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE BROCHURE.
SO WITH THAT, GOING DOWN THE ROLL CALL CHEER.
NO, NO, I'M STAYING JUST BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE THAT WORKING GROUP HAS ALREADY GOT A LOT TO DO, BUT IF EVERYBODY ELSE VOTES YES, THEN, THEN WILL DO IT.
[00:50:01]
OKAY.SO COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, ABSTAINS COMMISSIONER, KALE COMMISSIONER, KALE VOTES.
COMMISSIONER LEVIN'S AYE, MR. LEVIN'S AYE.
COMMISSIONER MCCORMICK STANTON OR YES.
SO WITH ONE ABSTENTION AND THE REMAINING, I'S GOING TO DO A QUICK COUNT 1, 2, 3, 8 EYES, AND WHAT ABSTENTION IT PASSES.
[1.d. The Candidate Forum Working Group for candidate forums for the 2022 city council elections.]
WE ARE GOING TO MOVE RIGHT ALONG TO ITEM ONE D AND THAT IS TO CONSIDER WHETHER MEMBERS WANT TO BE PART OF THE CANDIDATE FORUM, WORKING GROUP, SPEAKING OF WORKING GROUPS.UM, SO COMMISSIONERS MCCORMICK AND CALEB SERVED ON IT SINCE 2019.
AND IF THERE'S ANYONE ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO JOIN, OR IF THERE WOULD LIKE TO BE A RESHUFFLING UPSET WORKING GROUP, CAN I, CAN YOU GUYS, CAN YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN WHAT THE JOB TO BE DONE THIS? UM, SO IT'S PRETTY LIGHT WORKLOAD.
I WILL SAY THAT FIRST WE MEET WITH CITY COUNTY, UH, CITY STAFF TO LOOK OVER POTENTIAL DATES AND LOCATIONS TO HOST THE CITY COUNCIL FORUMS. AND THEN WE WORK, SEND THE DRAFT BACK AND FORTH TO MAKE SURE IT LOOKS GOOD THAT THOSE ARE GOING TO WORK OUT AND TO TROUBLESHOOT ANY POTENTIAL ISSUES.
DOES THAT SOUND RIGHT? DONNA BETH.
AND THEN WE ALSO ENCOURAGE MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION TO SHOW UP.
AND THEIR FORUMS ARE ANY THAT THEY WANT TO, UM, DID.
AND SOMETIMES WE HAVE A FEW LITTLE ISSUES TOO, THAT WE HAVE TO ADDRESS ON THE FORUMS. THERE WAS ONE THAT PREDATES ME AND I'M KIND OF DRAWING A BLANK ON IT.
SOMETHING LIKE THE ONE OVER, UM, AT THE EAST AUSTIN CENTER, THERE WAS, THERE WAS SOME KIND OF SNAFU, BUT I THINK THEY RESOLVED, IT WAS A REQUEST THAT, UH, NOT FROM ANY OF THE CANDIDATES AND NOT, IT WAS JUST A REQUEST FROM SOMEBODY ELSE TOO, SHALL NOT BE NAMED THAT WE HAVE, UH, SECURITY POLICE OF WHICH THEY CAME.
AND, YOU KNOW, THERE REALLY WASN'T A PROBLEM, BUT IT'S THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT COME UP FROM THE PUBLIC THAT WE ALSO HAVE TO ADDRESS.
AND IT DOES THAT THE CITY DOES PUBLISH THE INFORMATION IN THE, IS IT IN THE UTILITY BILL DOORBELL THAT THEY PUT THE INFORMATION IN THE UTILITY? YES.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE ALSO NEED TO LOOK AT BECAUSE THE FIRST THING THAT CAME OUT AND THE UTILITY BILL WAS WRONG AND THAT'S THE SNAFU I WAS THINKING, RIGHT.
PEOPLE SHOWED UP INCLUDING ME.
AND THERE WASN'T A, THERE WASN'T A FORM THAT NIGHT.
I THINK WE REALLY HIT HOME WITH HOW IMPORTANT THAT WAS.
AND SO ANYWAY, WE PROOF IT BEFORE IT GOES OUT IN THE CITY UTILITY BILL, MAKE SURE IT ALL LOOKS GOOD.
SECRETARY LEARNING THE MOTHER, HAPPY TO VOLUNTEER TO WORK ON THAT.
SO WORKING GROUP NOW OF THREE.
USUALLY IT'S JUST THE LEAGUE, RIGHT? THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS.
WE WORKED WITH THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS.
THEY PRETTY MUCH RUN THE SHOW.
THEY RUN THE FORUMS. SO THIS IS, I THINK COMMISSIONER MCCORMICK, THIS WORKING GROUP HAS TRIPLED IN THE PAST.
IT WAS A CONVENIENCE, A WORKING GROUP OF ONE FOR A LOT OF YEARS, FOR A LONG TIME.
THIS WAS A WORKING GROUP OF ONE.
CONGRATULATIONS ON THE ADDITIONS.
I'M HAPPY TO VOLUNTEER TO HELP IF IT'S NEEDED.
IT'S NICE TO YOU GO AND SEE AND SEE WHO THE CANDIDATES ARE, WHAT THEY SAY, WHAT THE AUDIENCE IS.
AND WE HAVE HAD TO HAVE SOME, A SERGEANT AT ARMS DEALS, BUT THE LEGAL WOMEN VOTERS ARE VERY GOOD ABOUT THAT.
I DON'T, I ASSUMED IF YOU, IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN WORKING WITH THEM, THEN BY ALL MEANS, OKAY, GREAT.
I DON'T THINK WE, WE DON'T HAVE TO TAKE OFFICIAL ACTION TO ADD SOMEONE TO A WORKING GROUP.
YOU JUST KIND OF SIGN UP AND DROP OUT AS YOU, NOBODY ELSE WANTED TO DO IT FOR YEARS.
BUT ERIC CAME ALONG AND THEN WAS GETTING POPULAR.
WELL, WHEN WE WENT TO TEN ONE, IT GOT TO BE MORE
[00:55:01]
INVOLVED WITH, UH, MORE LOCATIONS AND MORE CANDIDATES.SO THIS ONE, WE HAD 12 AT ONE MONTOPOLIS.
THAT'S WHERE IT WAS OVER IN EAST AUSTIN, UH, COMMISSIONER, UH, MR. CHAIRMAN, UH, COMMISSIONER MCCORMICK.
YOU SEEM TO BE THE DEFACTO CHAIR OF THIS WORKING GROUP.
UM, SO I'LL JUST STATE MY WILLINGNESS TO PARTICIPATE.
IF MORE PEOPLE, IT BECOMES TOO MANY COOKS IN THE KITCHEN, I'M HAPPY TO, TO, WE REALLY NEED IS FOR PEOPLE TO SHOW UP THAT ARE COMMISSIONED MEMBERS AT THAT YOU GUYS SHOW UP.
WE REALLY LIKED FOR YOU TO SHOW UP AT YOUR, UH, COUNCIL MEMBERS POSSESSION, BUT SOME OF US GO TO ALL OF THEM.
ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON, UH, THIS ITEM COMMISSIONERS? I HAVE A QUICK COMMENT.
I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE OR REQUEST THAT WHEN THAT DOES COME UP, I'D LIKE TO PARTICIPATE IN MY DISTRICT AT LEAST IF ANYTHING.
SO IF YOU GUYS COULD JUST REMIND ME, I'D LIKE TO REPRESENT, BE A REPRESENTATION OF A DISTRICT TO YOU.
WE'LL PUT OUT A SCHEDULE AND AT THE MEETING AND THEN THERE'S A SCHEDULE AND THE, UH, ELECTRIC BILL.
[2.a. Draft Op-Ed by the Working Group on Race, Identity, and Equity]
WE'RE GOING TO GO TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER TWO, WHICH IS OUR OLD BUSINESS STARTING WITH TWO EIGHT, THE DRAFT UP ED BY THE WORKING GROUP ON RACE, IDENTITY AND EQUITY.UM, THAT BEING THE WORKING GROUP THAT IS COMMISSIONER KALE, COMMISSIONER, LAURIE, WHO'S ABSENT TODAY AND MYSELF, AND I WILL APOLOGIZE FOR HAVING NOT BEEN TERRIBLY ACTIVE IN THE WORKING GROUP.
THAT'S BEEN A TERRIBLY BUSY TIME.
I CAN ONLY IMAGINE, BUT, UM, I WILL GIVE YOU ALL A STATUS.
I HAVE A DRAFT OUT WITH THE WORKING GROUP AND ALSO LYNN CARTER HAS GONE OVER IT AND MADE SOME UPDATES TO IT.
I INCORPORATED ALL OF YOUR COMMENTS FROM OUR LAST MEETING, BUT I STILL ENVISION, YOU KNOW, IT'S A DRAFT, YOU'LL HAVE MORE COMMENTS IN THE MEANTIME.
UM, I, UH, COMPILED A LIST OF AGAIN, USING YOUR INPUT OF MEDIA OUTLETS AND WAYS TO GET THE WORD OUT, INCLUDING THINGS LIKE CITY BUSES, UTILITY BILLS, ET CETERA, COMPILED A SPREADSHEET THAT I SENT TO LYNN.
SHE FORWARDED IT TO CITY STAFF AND THEY'RE REVIEWING IT FOR US.
AND, UM, WITH AN UNDERSTANDING THAT OUR GOAL REALLY IS TO GET THE WORD OUT ABOUT WHAT WE DO TO AS MANY PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY AS POSSIBLE.
SO IT'S ALL IN THE WORKS RIGHT NOW.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR LEADING THE CHARGE ON THAT TOO.
UM, ANY, ANY COMMENTS, SUGGESTIONS, DISCUSSION? I WELCOME INPUT ON, I DID MY BEST TO GATHER INFORMATION ON PRESS OUTLETS IN DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOODS AROUND TOWN.
I WAS GOING INTO GROCERY STORES AND OTHER PLACES AND PICKING UP RANDOM NEWSPAPERS EVERYWHERE I WENT.
BUT IF YOU HAVE ONE IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD OR COMMUNITY THAT I MIGHT'VE MISSED, WHICH IS TOTALLY POSSIBLE, I WOULD LOVE TO GET THAT INFORMATION FROM YOU.
AND ANOTHER, AND ANOTHER THING THAT JUST OCCURRED TO ME ARE, YOU KNOW, SPECIFIC NEIGHBORHOOD NEWSLETTERS, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, I DUNNO, CIRCULATIONS BACK A BIG PART OF THAT IS GOING TO BE THE CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS OWN NEWSLETTERS.
UM, UH, THINGS LIKE, WELL, CITY STAFF IS WEIGHING THIS AND WHAT THE VARIOUS COSTS ARE AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND OBVIOUS WHEN THAT DONNA BETH TOLD ME IS THE CITY UTILITY BILL.
SO, BUT THEY'RE, THEY'RE VETTING THAT FOR US AND HAVE HAD A LOT OF GOOD FEEDBACK.
AND COMMISSIONER STANTON, GO AHEAD.
I CAN'T RECALL IF THIS QUESTION HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP BEFORE, BUT IS THERE A CONSIDERATION OF HAVING THIS, UM, OP ED PIECE TRANSLATED INTO AT LEAST SPANISH AND PERHAPS CHINESE OR VIETNAMESE AS THE THIRD LANGUAGE? YES.
THAT'S A LITTLE FURTHER DOWN THE ROAD, BUT RIGHT.
I CAN FORWARD YOU THIS STUFF FROM ALLEN.
ANY OTHER DISCUSSION COMMISSIONERS?
[01:00:01]
CAUSE WE WILL JUST MOVE RIGHT ALONG OTHERWISE.[2.b. Draft Commission Statement on Equity, Access, and the Need for Reform by the Working Group on Race, Identity, and Equity]
THEN ITEM TWO, B IS THE, LET'S SEE DRAFT COMMISSION STATEMENT ON EQUITY ACCESS AND THE NEED FOR A FORM.UM, SO THIS IS YOU, THIS IS COMMISSIONER LAURIE'S KIND OF PROJECT.
I THINK WE'LL TABLE THIS, UM, AGAIN, UNLESS, UH, COMMISSIONER KALE, YOU HAVE AN UPDATE.
I KNOW THAT THIS WAS SOMETHING COMMISSIONER LAURIE HERSELF WAS WORKING ON AND KIND OF CIRCULATED AMONG US BEFORE, BUT UM, SHE SENT OUT A DRAFT TO, TO US.
UM, BUT I HAVEN'T HEARD WHETHER SHE, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S NEXT FOR HER ON THAT AHEAD.
WELL, SO I, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU ALL KNOW, BUT SHE HAS A NEW TAKEN ON A NEW JOB I'M NOT ABLE TO THAT'S.
SO, UH, UH, I GUESS A RELATED UPDATES, SINCE WE'RE STILL TALKING ABOUT THE WORKING GROUP, UM, I WANT TO STAY ON TOPIC WITH THE AGENDA, BUT COMMISSIONER LAURIE HAS A NEW JOB AND THE CHIEFS, I THINK CURRENTLY SEEKING APPROVAL TO CONTINUE HER COMMISSIONER, LAURIE HAS A NEW JOB AND IS, UH, CHECKING WITH HER NEW BOSS AS TO HER SERVICE ON THE COMMISSION.
SHE CAN CONTINUE SERVING ON THE COMMISSION.
SO DEFINITELY HIATUS, UH, I THINK IS MAYBE THE EXPLANATION FOR THIS AGENDA ITEM.
IT MIGHT BEHOOVE THE COMMITTEE, THE WORKING GROUP TO THINK ABOUT SOMEONE ELSE SHE RIGHT ON.
WELL TAKEN, WELL WE'LL TABLE THAT ONE FOR NOW.
ANYBODY ELSE? I MEAN, WE, WE COULD STILL ADD ANOTHER PERSON TO THE WORKING GROUP SINCE THERE'S ONLY THREE OF US.
UM, WE WOULDN'T, WE WOULDN'T, WE'RE NOT CLOSE TO QUORUM ON THAT.
SO IF ANYBODY WANTED TO JOIN THAT, UM, WE'D LOVE TO HAVE YOU.
UM, BUT, UM, AGAIN, IT'S THE KIND OF THING WE, WE, OUR GOAL IS TO GET UNANIMOUS APPROVAL OF WHAT WE END UP WITH.
SO ALL OF YOU IN THAT SENSE ARE KIND OF ON THE WORKING GROUP ANYWAY, BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO DISCUSS IT AND APPROVE IT AT COMMISSION MEETINGS.
SO, BUT IF YOU WANT TO BE ON THE SMALLER WORKING GROUP, WE'D LOVE, HAVE YOU SURE THE DOOR IS OPEN? UH, AGAIN, WE DON'T HAVE TO TAKE OFFICIAL ACTION TO ADD PEOPLE TO THE WORKING GROUP, BUT IF THOSE ARE TOPICS THAT INTEREST YOU AND BY ALL MEANS, UM,
[2.c. Working group status reports and/or recommendations on the following. i. Working Group on Sanctions, Procedures, and other Issues (Chair Soberon, ViceChair Ohueri, and Commissioners Greenberg, Lerner, and Stanton) on the following subjects: - Commission sanctions including effectiveness, past cases, and recommendations. - Potential amendments to City Code, Chapter 2-7 (Ethics and Financial Disclosure). - Commission procedures including effectiveness, past cases, and recommendations. - Scope of work of the Commission (powers, duties, and obligations), including effectiveness, past cases, and recommendations. - Potential amendments to the Rules of the Ethics Review Commission. - Best practices for city attorney opinions including effectiveness, past cases, and recommendations. ii. Working Group on Race, Identity, and Equity (Commissioners Kahle, Lari, and Soberon) status report and/or recommendations on: addressing issues of race, identity, and equity including: (i) planning for presentations or trainings by the Equity Office; (ii) helping focus the Commission’s evaluation of racial injustice and how the Commission can operate more fairly and effectively in light of racial injustice.]
SO IN THE MEANTIME, WE WILL MOVE ON TO AGENDA ITEM TWO C, WHICH IS, UH, WORKING GROUP STATUS REPORTS FROM OUR TWO OTHER WORKING GROUPS.THIS IS SO THE ONE WE HAD DISCUSSED EARLIER THIS EVENING, THE BIG ONE BIG PICTURE SANCTIONS PROCEDURES, AND OTHER ISSUES.
UM, AND I'LL JUST JUMP ONTO TWO C ROMAN NUMERAL TWO.
UM, I'M GOING TO ASK COMMISSIONER KALE VERY BRIEFLY ON THE WORKING GROUP ON RACE, IDENTITY AND EQUITY.
IF THERE ARE ANY OTHER UPDATES, UM, SINCE WE'VE DISCUSSED A COUPLE OF THEM ALREADY, UH, THERE ARE NO OTHER UPDATES.
WE TALKED LAST YEAR WITH BRIAN OAKS AT THE CITY ABOUT DOING SORT OF A COMMISSION WIDE TRAINING ON EQUITY INCLUSION.
AND, UM, I DON'T REALLY, I DON'T REALLY RECALL WHAT HAPPENED WITH THAT.
I HONESTLY I'M SORT OF DRAWING A BLANK AS TO WHETHER WE WERE GOING TO TRY TO DO SOME KIND OF GROUP THING, LOUIE.
UM, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT EITHER.
UM, I KNOW IT WAS LIKE A LIVE DISCUSSION AND IT WAS COMMUNICATION WITH THE EQUITY OFFICE.
AND, UH, I THINK, I THINK IT'S SIMPLY TRAILED OFF IF I'M GOING TO BE COMPLETELY HONEST.
UM, AND I KNOW THAT THERE WAS OTHER DISCUSSION ABOUT TRYING TO SEE IF WE COULD COLLECT DATA AND INFORMATION ON PRIOR COMPLAINT, DEMOGRAPHIC INFORMATION ON PRIOR COMPLAINTS TO KIND OF SEE THE, UH, HOW THOSE ISSUES INTERSECT WITH THE WORK OF THIS COMMISSION SPECIFICALLY.
AND I THINK THAT MAY HAVE TRAILED OFF TOO.
UM, SO THINGS AGAIN, IF ANYONE ELSE WANTS TO JOIN THE WORKING GROUP AND, UH, HELP US WITH, UH, SOME OF THESE GREAT IDEAS, UM, DOORS OPEN, BUT I THINK OTHERWISE SET ABOUT DOING FOR UPDATES FROM THE WORKING GROUP.
AND I'LL JUMP BACK THEN TO TWO C ONE, WHICH IS THE WORKING GROUP ON SANCTIONS PROCEDURES AND OTHER ISSUES.
THE WORKING GROUP THAT IS CURRENTLY MYSELF, COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, COMMISSIONER, STANTON, AND COMMISSIONER
UM, SO WHAT WE'VE PASSED OUT AND WHAT WE CIRCULATED BEFORE THE MEETING WERE A SERIES OF SLIDES THAT KIND OF GOES OVER THINGS THAT WE'RE DOING.
UM, I WANT TO ALSO PARTICULARLY GIVE A SHOUT OUT TO COMMISSIONER GREENBERG WHO HAS BEEN KIND OF LIGHTING THE FIRE AND GETTING US ALL ON BOARD SAYING, CAN YOU MEET, LIKE, CAN WE MEET ON THIS DAY? CAN WE TALK ON THIS DAY? THANK YOU.
UM, SO I'M GONNA, I THINK KICK IT SLIDES.
[01:05:04]
OH, GREAT.AND THEN I'M GOING TO KICK IT THEN TO COMMISSIONER GREENBERG.
IF YOU WANT TO WALK THROUGH THE SLIDES, KIND OF GIVE THE UPDATE FOR THE WORKING GROUP AND WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING.
UM, SO THERE'S A LOT OF ISSUES BEING CONSIDERED.
UM, THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE'VE LOOKED AT SO FAR PENALTIES, INCLUDING THE POSSIBILITY OF FINES.
INSTEAD OF CRIMINAL PROSECUTION EXPENDITURE REPORTING REQUIREMENT TRIGGERS, WHICH IS A DOLLAR AMOUNT OTHER THAN THE $400, UM, CONTRIBUTION LIMIT, UM, FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE REQUIREMENTS, SUCH AS THOSE THAT THE, UM, SOME COMMISSIONS PLUS THE COUNCIL HAVE TO FILL OUT, UM, ANNOUNCEMENT OF POSTPONEMENTS FOR THIS COMMISSION, WHICH, UM, IS A MINOR THING, I GUESS.
UM, THE COMPLAINT FORM REQUIREMENTS, THE HEARING PROCESS, AND LOTS OF DETAILS ABOUT THE HEARING PROCESS HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED ABOUT SWEARING IN CROSS-EXAMINATION RULES, EXCLUDING WITNESSES, SO THAT THEY DON'T HEAR OTHER WITNESSES, TESTIMONIES, AND THE POSSIBILITY OF SPECIFICALLY, UM, ALLOWING FOR SETTLEMENTS, UM, LIMITATIONS ON THE EX PARTE COMMUNICATION, NOT TO GET RID OF IT, BUT POSSIBLY MAKE IT A LITTLE LESS STRICT, UM, TRAINING AND JURISDICTION.
AND THEN IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, WE'RE GOING TO LOOK TODAY.
THE COMPLAINT FORM REQUIREMENTS AND TRAINING, UM, WE SORTA THOUGHT ARE KIND OF LOW HANGING FRUIT, UM, THAT MIGHT BE EASIEST TO MAKE PROGRESS ON THE QUICKEST.
UM, SO THE NEXT SLIDE JUST TALKS ABOUT THE, YOU CAN GO ON, WE MAKING A SPREADSHEET, WHICH LISTS THE CITY CODE AND THE LANGUAGE AND THE ISSUE, AND EVENTUALLY ALTERNATIVE LANGUAGE THAT WE LIKE TO HAVE.
UM, WE'RE ALSO PLANNING A SURVEY.
UM, SOMEONE ELSE MIGHT WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT, BUT THEY'RE BASICALLY, IT WAS THREE OPEN-ENDED QUESTIONS TO SEE WHAT'S WORKING AND WHAT'S NOT WORKING TO SEND IT TO THE ETHICS, RECURRENT ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION MEMBERS, PAST OFFICERS, AND SOME PEOPLE THAT WE THINK OF AS FREQUENT FLYERS IN FRONT OF OUR COMMISSION.
UM, AND THEN I THINK THERE'S ONE MORE BULLET.
IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, UM, THAT WE WOULD PRESENT THE ITEMS TO THE ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION FOR ENDORSEMENT BEFORE FINALIZING PROPOSED CHANGES.
SO IT'S KIND OF A LONG LAUNDRY LIST AND WE DON'T WANT TO LIKE DO ALL THE WORK UNLESS THERE'S SORT OF INTERESTS FROM THE COMMISSION OF MAKING THOSE CHANGES.
SO IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE AGAIN, THE ONES WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT TODAY ARE THE ISSUES WITH THE COMPLAINT FORM AND TRAINING.
SO YOU CAN GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, THE COMPLAINT FORM, UM, BASICALLY ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IT ASKS FOR THE SECTION OF THE CHARTER OR THE ORDINANCE THAT'S VIOLATED, UM, THE DATE OF THE VIOLATION AND THE ALLEGED ACTIONS OR THE ACTIONS ALLEGED TO BE A VIOLATION.
AND IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT, THE ISSUE IS THAT INDIVIDUALS FILE COMPLAINTS, UM, THAT DESCRIBE VIOLATIONS THAT ARE WITHIN OUR JURISDICTION, BUT OFTEN HAPPENS THAT THEY DON'T CITE THE CORRECT SECTION.
AND THE ENDING RESULT IS THAT THE VIOLATION OR THE COMPLAINT GETS DISMISSED EITHER AS NOT BEING WITHIN OUR JURISDICTION OR NOT REALLY BEING WHAT'S EXACTLY ALLEGED.
UM, SO IT'S, IT'S A PROBLEM THAT WE THOUGHT WE SHOULD TRY TO FIX.
SO THE WAYS POSSIBLE TO FIX IT OR ON THE NEXT SLIDE THAT WE TALKED ABOUT IS THAT THE ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION CAN, ACCORDING TO OUR RULES AND ACCORDING TO CITY CODE FILE ITS OWN COMPLAINT WITHIN THE JURISDICTION OF THE COMMISSION, HOWEVER, WE'RE SORT OF THEN WHERE ARE THE ONES WHERE BOTH THE COMPLAINANT AND THE JURY, RIGHT? SO IT'S A PROCESS THAT SEEMS A LITTLE BIT UNCLEAR ABOUT WHETHER WE WOULD WANT TO DO THAT OR HOW WE WOULD DO THAT.
UM, SO ANOTHER OPTION IS TO CHANGE OUR
[01:10:01]
CODE.IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT, UM, IF YOU CLICK FORWARD, INCLUDE IN OUR RULES, THAT WE CAN MAKE CHANGES OR CORRECTIONS TO THE COMPLAINT.
AND I THINK PEOPLE WERE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THAT OPTION.
YOU KNOW, IF WE START SAYING, NO, YOU MEANT TO SAY THIS, THEN WE'RE REALLY TAKING SIDES AND WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE OBJECTIVE.
SO THE THIRD POSSIBILITY, UM, THAT I THINK WE WANT TO RECOMMEND IS THE NEXT BULLET, UM, SAYS, IF YOU GO FORWARD TO SIMPLIFY THE COMPLAINT FORM, UM, AND DON'T REQUIRE THE COMPLAINANT TO SPECIFY THE SPECIFIC CODE, UM, THIS IS, IF YOU LOOK AT THE, I THINK THE NEXT SLIDE, MY CHOSE SAN ANTONIO'S FORM.
SO IT'S, IT'S A LITTLE BIT TOO HARD TO READ, BUT, UM, WHAT IT SAYS, I GUESS WE MIGHT AS WELL JUST GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE IS TO DESCRIBE THE NATURE OF THE ALLEGED VIOLATION, INCLUDING IF POSSIBLE, THE RULE OR RULES ALLEGEDLY VIOLATED SO THAT WE'RE NOT THROWING OUT COMPLAINTS SIMPLY BECAUSE SOMEBODY PUT THE WRONG SECTION OF THE CODE, UM, WHICH SEEMS TO HAPPEN.
UM, I HAVE SOME COMMENTS IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT CLICK FORWARD, THE, IN THIS CASE AS ALWAYS, THE CHAIR HAS TO MAKE A JURISDICTIONAL DETERMINATION AND DECIDE WHICH CODE IS, IS BEING ALLEGED.
I MEAN, THE CHAIR CAN READ THE DESCRIPTION OF THE VIOLATION AND BASED ON THAT, DECIDE IF IT'S WIN WITHIN OUR JURISDICTION.
UM, BUT IT DOES PUT A LITTLE EXTRA RESPONSIBILITY OR MAYBE YOU FEEL A LOT EXTRA RESPONSIBILITY ONTO THE CHAIR.
UM, WE ALSO THOUGHT ONE ADVANTAGE WAS THAT THE AGENDA THEN WOULDN'T NEED TO BE SO SPECIFIC EITHER.
UM, CAUSE IF YOU REMEMBER, THERE WAS A CASE WHERE THE AGENDA, I DUNNO, MAYBE TRANSPOSED TWO NUMBERS AND THE, UM, PERSON WHO WAS WHAT'S THE PERSON WHO'S BEING COMPLAINED AGAINST RESPONDENT, RESPONDENT.
THE RESPONDENTS SAID BASED ON THAT, IT SHOULD BE DROPPED.
UM, AND WE DON'T WANT STUFF DROPPED.
THAT'S EVEN WORSE TECHNICALITY OF A TYPO ON THE AGENDA, UM, THAT WERE DROPPING COMPLAINTS.
UM, AND THEN ONE MORE COMMENT IS, UM, IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT, UM, BULLET POINT THAT I DID LOOK AND DALLAS EL PASO AND THE TEXAS ETHICS COMMISSION COMPLAINT FORMS DO ALL ASK FOR THE SPECIFIC LAW OR RULE THAT'S VIOLATED HOUSTON.
I COULDN'T EVEN FIND THEIR FORM AND THEIR INSTRUCTIONS WERE, UM, I DON'T KNOW, A LITTLE BIT LESS SPECIFIC.
SO I COULDN'T TELL WHETHER THE CODE WAS REQUIRED IN HOUSTON.
UM, BUT YOU KNOW, I THINK SAN ANTONIO IS AN OUTLIER IN, WITHIN THE STATE, BUT I'D BE HAPPY IF WE WOULD DECIDE TO JOIN SAN ANTONIO AND NOT REQUIRE THAT CODE ON THE FORM BECAUSE IT JUST RESULTS IN, UM, SITUATIONS WHERE THERE APPEARS TO BE A VIOLATION, BUT WE CAN'T GO FORWARD.
SO THAT'S KIND OF OUR, THE WHARTON GROUP SORT OF TOOK AS THE SORT OF FIRST ORDER OF PRIORITY WOULD BE THAT WE WOULD CHANGE THE COMPLAINT FORM.
IT ALSO REQUIRES THAT WE CHANGE THE CODE BECAUSE THE CODE SAYS THAT YOU HAVE TO PUT IN THAT, UM, THE ACTUAL SPECIFIC VIOLATION.
AND SO WE'D HAVE TO HAVE A CODE CHANGE, WHICH I BELIEVE WOULD REQUIRE CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL.
UM, SO, YOU KNOW, IF THE COMMISSION IS GOOD WITH THAT, I THINK WE COULD JUST GO AHEAD AND GET STARTED.
AND THE OTHER THING THAT WE THOUGHT WAS KIND OF A TOP PRIORITY, IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE IS TO HAVE TRAINING.
I MEAN, WE GET TRAINING, BUT OUR TRAININGS NO DIFFERENT THAN THE TRAINING OF EVERY OTHER COMMISSION.
UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT SPECIFIC TO OUR RESPONSIBILITIES AND OUR RESPONSIBILITIES ARE PRETTY TECHNICAL.
UM, SO I WOULD SAY THAT SPECIFIC TRAINING FOR THE ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION WOULD BE HELPFUL.
UM, THERE'S ONE MORE, SOME WORDING ABOUT WHAT WE MIGHT WANT TO ASK FOR WHICH IT'S LIKE, THIS IS VERY EASY FOR US TO ASK FOR MAYBE NOT SO EASY FOR CITY LEGAL TO PROVIDE, BUT THE NEXT BULLET SAYS THAT CITY LEGAL WOULD ESTABLISH AN ANNUAL PROGRAM TO PROVIDE TRAINING, UM, TO THE LAWS ADMINISTERED AND ENFORCED BY THIS COMMISSION
[01:15:01]
FOR THE NEWLY APPOINTED AND THE CONTINUING MEMBERS.CAUSE I THINK THAT TRAINING WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL.
A LOT OF TIMES OUR MEETINGS GO ALONG BECAUSE THERE'S SO MANY QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING, WHAT'S ALLOWED, WHAT DOES THIS REALLY MEAN IN THE CODE? AND SO THAT'S THE END OF MY PRESENTATION THAT, YOU KNOW, THE, SOMEBODY ELSE MAYBE WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE SURVEY.
UM, SO TO BRIEFLY TOUCH ON THE KIND OF GOING BACK ON THE PRESENTATION, UM, THE THING WAS ONE OF THE SLIDES WE TALKED ABOUT IN KIND OF OPEN-ENDED SURVEY TO THE CURRENT COMMISSIONERS AND PEOPLE WHO HAD PREVIOUSLY SERVED ON THE COMMISSION, TYPICALLY THE CHAIRS AND VICE-CHAIRS OF THE PAST WHO HAVE GONE ON TO GREENER PASTURES, ONE MIGHT SAY, UM, AND OTHER PEOPLE WHO'VE KIND OF FREQUENTLY COME TO THE COMMISSION, UH, EITHER AS PEOPLE WHO PRESENT BEFORE THE COMMISSION WHO REPRESENTED MULTIPLE PEOPLE BEFORE THE COMMISSION, UM, WHO HAVE OBVIOUSLY SHOWN AN INTEREST ONE WAY OR ANOTHER IN WHAT THE COMMISSION DOES AND KIND OF EXTENDING AN OPEN-ENDED SURVEY TO THEM, UH, TO KIND OF COLLECT ANONYMOUS RESPONSES THAT ARE JUST, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT CAN THE COMMISSION DO BETTER? WHAT ARE PARTS OF THE COMMISSION'S WORK THAT COULD DO SOME IMPROVEMENT? UM, AND SO, UH, JUST KIND OF A SAMPLE OF PRIOR CHAIRS AND VICE-CHAIRS AND PEOPLE WE WERE THINKING ABOUT REACHING OUT TO, UM, THE LIST WOULD, I MEAN, DONNA, BETH, YOU WOULD BE SUPER USEFUL TO HAVE SOME OF YOUR INPUT HERE BECAUSE OF YOUR HISTORICAL KNOWLEDGE.
UM, THE PEOPLE THAT IMMEDIATELY CAME TO MY MIND WERE PEOPLE LIKE, UH, AUSTIN KAPLAN, UM, WHO NOT ONLY WAS A FORMER CHAIR, BUT ALSO SERVED AS OUTSIDE COUNSEL ON A COMPLAINT OR TWO FOR US AND DID A GREAT JOB.
UM, WE HAVE, UH, PETER EINHORN, BEN STRATMAN, UH, DENNIS SPEIGHT, UM, NOW VICE-CHAIR OF HURRY AS A FORMER MEMBER AND VICE CHAIR.
UM, AND I'M TO HAPPY TO HEAR FROM, UH, DONNA BETH COMMISSIONER DANBURG, UM, AS WELL, LIKE YOU'VE SERVED A LONG TIME ON THE COMMISSION.
UM, OTHER, OTHER FOLKS THAT WOULD BE GOOD TO REACH OUT TO THAT HAVE SERVED ON THE COMMISSION IN THE PAST OR THE FREQUENT FLYERS THAT WE'VE SEEN COMMISSIONER DANNENBERG, UM, IS PART OF YOUR CONCEPT TO HAVE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN REPRESENTATIVES OF CON CON COMPLAINANTS THEMSELVES ARE REPRESENTATIVE OF COMPLAINANTS OR RESPONDENTS THEMSELVES ARE REPRESENTATIVES OF RECENT.
UH, SO I COULD OPEN-ENDED AT MANY TIMES IT SEEMS LIKE WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE SOMETIMES IN ONE OF THOSE ROLES AND SOMETIMES IN THE OTHER, AND I'VE SEEN IT FROM BOTH DIRECTIONS.
SO YEAH, THOSE, THOSE AS WELL, IN THOSE, IN THOSE PARTICULAR INDIVIDUALS THAT COME TO MIND ARE FRED LEWIS, MARK LITTLEFIELD, HAS IT HAD A NUMBER OF COMPLAINTS, UM, UH, DRAWING A BLANK ON A FEW OTHERS FOR A COUPLE OF THE DIFFERENT PAT GROUPS.
UH, COMMISSIONER STANTON, GO AHEAD.
SORRY FOR BRINGING THAT UP, BECAUSE THAT WAS ONE OF MY COMMENTS AND I JUST WANT TO BRING UP SO THAT IN CASE I'M NOT ABLE TO MAKE, UM, ANOTHER MEETING OF THE WORK GROUP, I DIDN'T WANT TO THIS FEEDBACK TO BE LOST, BUT I'D LIKE FOR US TO OPEN UP THE SURVEY TO INDIVIDUALS THAT HAVE BEEN NAMED ON PAST CASES, PERIOD, WHETHER THEY ARE FREQUENT FLYERS OR NOT, THEY ARE THE BEST I WOULD SAY, MEASURE OF WHAT'S WHAT WORKS WELL AND WHAT DOESN'T WORK WELL.
SO COULD WE DO THAT OPENED UP JUST TO ANY INDIVIDUAL WHO'S BEEN NAMED, UH, ON A CASE IN THE PAST AND INSTEAD OF PAST OFFICERS, AGAIN, JUST PAST MEMBERS, REGARDLESS OF THEIR ROLE.
NO, I THINK, I THINK OPENING IT UP TO, UH, PAST MEMBERS GENERALLY IS A GOOD IDEA AS WELL.
UM, THE PEOPLE THAT IMMEDIATELY CAME TO MY MIND WERE PEOPLE THAT I INTERACTED WITH IN THEIR CAPACITY AS PRINCIPALS QUOTE, UNQUOTE CHAIRS OR VICE-CHAIRS, BUT, UM, THINKING BACK ON PAST MEMBERS, COMMISSIONER THOMPSON, UM, WAS A GREAT MEMBER, UH, LIKE REALLY THOUGHTFUL OPINIONATED, UM, IF NOTHING ELSE.
UM, SO, UH, COMMISSIONER MCCORMICK, YOU GOT, YOU GOT SOME THOUGHTS THINKING OF PEOPLE JUMP IN.
COMMISSIONER KALE TO SORT OF PIGGYBACK OFF WHAT COMMISSIONER STANTON SAID.
WE ALSO HAVE PEOPLE WHO REGULARLY DO CITIZEN COMMUNICATION.
AND SO I DON'T SEE HOW WE CAN, I, I THINK WE CAN, I DON'T SEE HOW WE CAN'T JUST OPEN IT TO THE PUBLIC, FRANKLY.
I MEAN, UM, YES, WE WANT TO REALLY EMPHASIZE THAT THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE EXPERIENCED BEFORE US,
[01:20:01]
UH, FOR OBVIOUS REASONS THAT'S REALLY VALUABLE INPUT, BUT, BUT I DON'T SEE HOW WE, WE DON'T ALLOW ANYBODY.I MEAN, BECAUSE WHEN WE S YOU KNOW, WHEN WE'VE HAD THESE MEETINGS, WE'LL HAVE A COMPLAINANT AND THE RESPONDENT, BUT THEN WE'LL ALSO HAVE FAMILY MEMBERS WE'LL HAVE COMMUNITY SUPPORTERS WHO COME.
UM, SO WE HAVE ALL THESE OTHER, UM, PEOPLE WHO ARE PARTICIPATING IN THE PROCESS.
AND SO I, UH, I FRANKLY DON'T SEE HOW WE COULDN'T JUST OPEN UP.
COMMITTEE THE SECRETARY LEARNER, I GUESS IT WOULD BE, I GUESS IT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF THERE IS SORT OF SOME, UM, CRITERIA FOR HOW YOU'RE GOING TO USE THE INFORMATION.
SO, BECAUSE YOU'LL, IF YOU'RE GETTING A WHOLE BUNCH OF STUFF FROM A WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE, THEN THERE'S GOING TO BE A NATURAL, UM, SUBJECTIVE DETERMINATION OF SOMETHING'S USEFUL OR NOT USEFUL.
SO I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE DEFINED WHAT I DON'T MEAN.
LIKE WE HAD TO VOTE ON SOMETHING, BUT I MAY, I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE CLEAR, UM, WHAT THAT INPUT IS MEANT TO DO.
AND IF IT'S JUST TO INFORM, AND I'D SAY IN THE, IN THE COMMISSION CAN STILL MAKE ITS DECISION, BUT IF YOU START OPENING IT UP AND THEN YOU DON'T UTILIZE SOMEONE'S INPUT, THEN JUST LOOKING AT ME.
THERE REPERCUSSIONS FROM THAT.
HANDS, HANDS ARE BOUNDING, SO IT WILL GO THIS WAY.
I WAS NOT KEEPING TRACK, UH, COMMISSIONER DANBURG.
UM, IN A NUMBER OF SITUATIONS, LIKE IF I'M SIGNING ON TO AN OPEN LETTER ON THAT HAS, YOU KNOW, 1200 LAWYERS SIGN ONTO IT, OR IF I'M SIGNING ON TO A SURVEY OF, UH, SERVICE PROVIDING OR WHATEVER MANY TIMES, THEY WILL HAVE BOXES THAT ARE FAIRLY GENERAL.
LIKE, ARE YOUR, HAVE YOU EVER BEEN A MEMBER OF THE BAR? UH, AND I THINK THAT IF WE HAVE, IF WE CAN CERTAINLY OPEN IT TO EVERYBODY, BUT I THINK IF WE HAVE ON THERE, ARE YOU, OR HAVE YOU EVER BEEN, UH, COMPLAINANT OR RESPONDENT BEFORE THE COMMISSION? ARE YOU, OR HAVE YOU EVER BEEN, UH, A CANDIDATE OR TREASURER UTILIZING THESE RULES? I THINK THAT THAT WOULD HELP US WEIGH THE INPUT THAT WE'RE GETTING BASED ON SOME LEVEL OF EXPERIENCE, NOT JUST A GENERAL OPINION ABOUT ETHICS.
NO, THAT'S A GOOD POINT AND SOMETHING THAT I WAS GONNA, UH, BRING UP AS WELL, IS THAT THE, I THINK AS WE HAD DISCUSSED IT MOST RECENTLY, IT WOULD BE A SURVEY WHERE THE RESULTS THAT WE GET ARE KIND OF FAIRLY ANONYMOUS, WHICH IS HOW WE STARTED WITH THE IDEA OF BEING SELECTIVE OF WHO WE SEND THE SURVEY, THE KIND OF POPULATION OR THE, OF WHO WE SEND THE SURVEY TO.
UM, IF WE DO BROADEN IT OUT, UH, WHICH I THINK IS A PERFECTLY FINE SUGGESTION TO OTHER FOLKS, THEN I THINK, UH, HAVING MAYBE THAT KIND OF INDICATOR OF YOU, IT CAN BE AS BROAD AS HAVE YOU A QUESTION THAT IS MAYBE A LONG QUESTION, BUT HAVE YOU EVER SERVED ON THE ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION, HAVE YOU EVER PRESENTED BEFORE THE ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION, HAVE YOU EVER, UH, ENGAGED OR BEEN, UH, APPOINTED TREASURER CANDIDATE IN A CITY ELECTION? AND, YOU KNOW, IT COULD BE A LONG QUESTION, BUT A QUESTION THAT YEAH, YOU COULD, YOU COULD HAVE YES OR NO, BOX THIS AFTER EACH GROUPING OF THAT WITHOUT BEING SO SPECIFIC THAT, OH MY GOSH, THEY'RE GONNA SEE ME AS ONE OF THE COMPLAINER'S.
THE CONCERN ABOUT HAVING KIND OF MULTIPLE YES OR NO QUESTIONS IS THAT YOU CAN THROUGH PROCESS OF ELIMINATION, SAY LIKE, OH, YOU HAVEN'T SERVED ON THE COMMISSION, BUT YOU'VE BEEN A RESPONDENT.
AND YOU'VE ALSO BEEN IN AN ELECTION.
WHO COULD THAT BE? OH, YOU KNOW, I THINK IF WE, IF WE PUT IT ON THE CITY WEBSITE AND OPEN IT TO EVERYBODY, BUT SEND IT AND ASK PEOPLE TO PARTICIPATE ANONYMOUSLY TO THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN COMMISSIONERS BEFORE TO PEOPLE WHO'VE BEEN COMPLAINANTS OR RESPONDENTS BEFORE, TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE, UH, BEEN TREASURES FOR PACS THAT NEED TO FOLLOW THESE RULES, UH, CANDIDATES WHO NEED TO FOLLOW THESE RULES.
UH, SO WE LIKE KIND OF ACTIVELY SOLICIT ANONYMOUS RESPONSES FROM THOSE FOLKS, BUT CERTAINLY PUT IT ON THE CITY WEBSITE FOR ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO PARTICIPATE.
NO, I THINK THAT'S, THAT IS A REALLY GOOD SUGGESTION.
AND I APPRECIATE THE OPENING IT UP AND BEING ABLE TO JUST CHECK THE BOX, COMMISSIONER MCCORMICK, AND THEN COMMISSIONER LEVIN'S NEXT, SORRY.
GUIDELINES, OR WE'RE REALLY OPENING PANDORA'S
[01:25:01]
BOX WITH SOME OF THESE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN BEFORE US BEFORE.NO, AND I MEAN, THE MORE WE OPEN IT UP, UH, THE BIGGER, THE POPULATION OF POTENTIAL SURVEY RESPONDENTS, THE GREATER, THE LIKELIHOOD OF COLORFUL RESPONSES, I'M SURE.
UH, COMMISSIONER LEVIN'S AND THEN STANTON, THIS STRIKES ME AS A PERFECT OPPORTUNITY FOR THE WORKING GROUP TYPE SETTING WHERE IN WHICH WE WERE NOT OPERATING WITH A QUORUM AND WE CAN SIT DOWN PRIVATELY AND OFF THE RECORD WITH PEOPLE WHO HAVE INTERACTED WITH THIS COMMISSION, WHETHER, WHETHER ON THIS SIDE OF THE TABLE OR ON THAT SIDE.
UM, BECAUSE I, I WOULD IMAGINE THAT A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE WOULD HAVE INSIGHTFUL THINGS THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL, BUT THEY DON'T NECESSARILY WANT TO SAY IT PUBLICLY.
UM, AND SO THE SURVEY IS ANONYMOUS.
YOU HAVEN'T HAD A PROBLEM WITH A SURVEY, UM, UNLESS YOU HAVE VERY OPEN-ENDED QUESTIONS, UM, IT'S, YOU'RE LIMITED IN WHAT KIND OF INFORMATION YOU CAN GATHER AS OPPOSED TO SITTING ACROSS THE TABLE WITH COFFEE, LUNCH, WHATEVER, AND SAYING, TELL ME, TELL ME ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE.
TELL ME WHAT WORKED, TELL ME WHAT DIDN'T.
UM, AND THROUGH THAT, WE CAN SIMPLY EDUCATE OURSELVES AS COMMISSION MEMBERS ABOUT WHAT IT'S REALLY LIKE TO BE.
UM, ESPECIALLY THE ONES WHO COME BEFORE THE COMMISSION.
I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT KIND OF INFORMATION CAN BE GLEANED THROUGH A SURVEY AND, AND YOU CAN'T ASK A FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS ON THOSE SURVEYS.
AND I THINK, UH, IS, UH, AS I'VE KIND OF ENVISIONED THE SURVEYS, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT IN THE WORKING GROUP, UM, I'VE SEEN IT AS A TOOL.
UM, AND I DON'T THINK IT'S MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE TO DO A SURVEY TO A BROADER GROUP.
AND THEN TO KIND OF SPECIFICALLY, YOU KNOW, TARGET, YOU KNOW, IF I COULD HAVE AUSTIN KAPLAN JUST LIKE COME RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW AND EXPLAIN ALL THE GREAT IDEAS HE MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE FOR THE COMMISSION, I WOULD DO IT IN A HEARTBEAT.
UM, BUT COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, UM, COMMISSIONER TENANT UCO MAY HAVE A LIST OF THE QUESTIONS THAT WE HAD DRAFTED, UM, THAT MAY BE HELPFUL TO THE COMMISSION.
AND WE COULD ADD A QUESTION THAT SAYS, HAVE YOU HAD INVOLVEMENT WITH THE COMMISSION? IF SO, WHAT WAS YOUR INVOLVEMENT RATHER THAN THIS WHOLE CHECKLIST OF BOXES THAT WE MIGHT MISS SOMETHING? UM, AND WE COULD HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION THAT SAYS, WOULD YOU LIKE TO MEET PERSONALLY WITH THE WORKING GROUP BECAUSE THERE SOME PEOPLE MIGHT, LIKE YOU SAID, RATHER SAY IT THAN WRITE IT DOWN.
YEAH, I THINK, I THINK THAT'S A FINE QUESTION.
AND JUST THE QUESTIONS THAT WE'VE CRAFTED SO FAR, I THINK ARE TWO REALLY IT'S.
YEAH, IT WAS A, UH, YEAH, GO AHEAD.
SO THE FIRST QUESTION IS WHAT DO YOU THINK CAN BE IMPROVED WITH THE COMMISSION, FOR EXAMPLE, MEMBERSHIP OPERATIONS, COMPLAINT, PROCESS, HEARINGS, PENALTIES, OR JURISDICTION? UH, NUMBER TWO IS WHAT WORKED WELL.
AND NUMBER THREE, DO YOU HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL COMMENTS OR SUGGESTIONS? VERY OPEN-ENDED.
UM, YEAH, SO, UH, I THINK, UH, ANOTHER QUESTION OR ANOTHER BOX IN A SURVEY THAT IS, WOULD YOU LIKE TO, UH, COMMUNICATE YOUR IDEAS FURTHER WITH THE WORKING GROUP WOULD BE APPROPRIATE OR ANOTHER BOX THAT SAYS, PLEASE DESCRIBE THE CONCERN I HAVE WITH THE POLICE.
DESCRIBE PAST INVOLVEMENT IS THAT THEY COULD WRITE, THEY COULD SAY, WELL, MY NAME IS JOHN SMITH AND THEY COULD, UM, THEY'RE GOOD.
I LOVE THE IDEA OF FACE-TO-FACE KIND OF ENGAGEMENT WITH, WITH OUR, UM, CONSTITUENTS, IF YOU WILL, RIGHT.
AND, UH, I'D LIKE TO PROPOSE THAT WE CONSIDER, AND I'LL BRING THIS UP DURING THE WORK GROUP AS WELL, BUT SOMETHING THAT THE ASIAN AMERICAN QUALITY OF LIFE ADVISORY COMMISSION, UM, DOES ON A REGULAR BASIS IS DO EXACTLY THAT.
WE HAVE A COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT FUNCTION WHERE WE INVITE IT'S FREE, OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.
WE PROVIDE MAYBE REFRESHMENTS AND WE COMMISSIONERS, UM, TAKE A ROLE OF FACILITATING DISCUSSION AND EXACTLY THAT IS, YOU KNOW, DIALOGUE WITH THE PEOPLE.
AND I THINK THAT THAT IS VERY, IT SHOWS THAT WE REALLY, WE CARE AND THAT WE ARE OPEN TO CHANGES, UM, TO MAKE IT BETTER.
THE QUESTION I HAVE IS I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WE NEED TO GET INTO THE WHOLE BUSINESS OF WEIGHING THE FEEDBACK.
MY WHOLE POINT IS FEEDBACK IS FEEDBACK.
SO WHETHER IT'S COLORFUL OR NOT, OR WHETHER IT'S MISSPELLED OR WHETHER IT'S WRITTEN OR IN CRAYON HER, WHAT HAVE YOU IT'S FEEDBACK.
AND SO I THINK WE'RE MISSING THE POINT OF
[01:30:01]
MAKING THIS PROCESS EASY FOR THE PEOPLE WHO USE IT WHEN WE GET INTO, WELL, LET'S NOT CONSIDER THAT FEEDBACK BECAUSE IT'S COMING FROM SOMEBODY WHO DOESN'T HAVE EXPERIENCE ON THE COMMISSION.IT DEFEATS THE WHOLE POINT OF MAKING THIS PROCESS SIMPLER AND REALLY LISTENING TO THE PEOPLE, TO THE PEOPLE.
SO I, I WOULD NOT THE, FOR, UM, ASKING THAT INFORMATION TO WAY HOW, WHAT QUALIFIED THE FEEDBACK IS.
SO I, WHAT I'M SAYING IS IT NEEDS TO BE VERY CLEAR WITHIN THIS COMMISSION, HOW TO USE IT.
SO WE, THIS BODY GETS USED TO, TO BATTLE OUT, UH, PERSONAL AGENDAS AND BIASES AND PREJUDICES AND, UM, AND, UM, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE WORD IS THAT I'M LOOKING FOR, BUT, UM, THINGS THAT ARE INAPPROPRIATE FOR THE USE OF THIS BODY.
AND SO IT'S JUST LIKE, THAT CAN EASILY COME OUT, ESPECIALLY PEOPLE WHO COME FOR A CITIZEN COMPLAINT LIKE THAT IT'S OFTEN REALLY LIKE THEY HAVE A GRUDGE AGAINST THE WOMEN'S COMMISSION, RIGHT.
I'M SAYING THAT THE OFTEN OUR BODIES, THIS BODY IS USED FOR INAPPROPRIATE, UM, MOTIONS, RIGHT.
ESPECIALLY IN CITIZEN COMPLAINT, LIKE WHERE THERE ARE TIMES WHERE PEOPLE IT'S, IT'S A REALLY A PERSONAL GRUDGE, IT'S A PERSONAL PREJUDICE, IT'S A PERSONAL BIAS AND IT BECOMES AN OFFICIAL COMPLAINT.
AND SO WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT WE JUST HAVE TO BE VERY CLEAR WHAT THE PURPOSE OF ASKING THE QUESTIONS IS FOR WHAT END, BECAUSE YOU THEN MIGHT SAY, WELL, THAT IS A CLEARLY BIASED PERSPECTIVE AGAINST SOME ASPECT OF CITY GOVERNMENT THAT'S PLAYING OUT HERE, WHICH IS NOT REALLY CONSTRUCTIVE COMMENTARY TO WHAT WE'RE ASKING, BUT RATHER IT'S A MECHANISM TO STATE A PERSONAL OPINION ABOUT SOMETHING.
SO OBVIOUSLY THAT WILL BE SOMETHING THAT IT'S NOT WITHIN THE CONFINES OF WHAT WE'RE ASKING.
IT GOES OUTSIDE, OUTSIDE THE QUESTION, BUT IT'S, I'M JUST SAYING THAT WE NEED TO, WE'VE SEEN THIS PLAYS OUT IN OUR COMMISSION WHEN WE HAVE CITIZENS COME UP AND WE'RE OPEN AND PEOPLE CAN SAY WHATEVER THEY WANT, BUT IT'S NOT NECESSARILY RELEVANT TO, TO THE BODY.
AND ONE THING THAT I'LL OFFER ABOUT THE SURVEY IS THAT IT IS THE, AS IT WAS ENVISIONED, UM, IT WAS SIMPLY A TOOL FOR THE WORKING GROUP TO KIND OF, BECAUSE UNDERSTANDING THAT THE WORKING GROUP OF FOUR OR FIVE EVEN COMMISSIONERS IS, YOU KNOW, LIKE I THINK THE WORLD OF US INDIVIDUALLY, I THINK WE'RE ALL VERY SMART AND CAPABLE PEOPLE, BUT OBVIOUSLY LIMITED IN OUR, UM, PERSPECTIVES AND EXPERIENCES, UM, THAT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE IDEA OF THE SURVEY WAS TO BROADEN OUT THE, YOU KNOW, KIND OF EXPAND THE BRAIN TRUST OF THE WORKING GROUP WITHOUT VIOLATING QUORUM RULES AND WITHOUT, YOU KNOW, UH, TRYING TO GET TO, UM, EXPAND TOO FAR OUT W GIVEN THE RESOURCES THAT WE HAVE IN THE FULL-TIME JOBS THAT WE ALL HAVE.
UM, I THINK, I THINK IT'S VERY WELL TAKEN THAT IT SHOULD LIKELY BE OPEN TO ANYONE BECAUSE I CAN'T THINK OF EVERY HUMAN BEING IN THE CITY OF AUSTIN THAT MAY HAVE AN INTEREST IN ETHICS OR CAMPAIGN FINANCE RULES OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.
UM, BUT, UM, I DO THINK THAT IT IS WORTHWHILE AT LEAST TO HAVE LIKE A, A BOX OR AN INDICATOR IN THE SURVEY THAT JUST, UH, LETS THE WORKING GROUP, AS WE'RE LOOKING AT THESE RESPONSES KNOW LIKE, OH, THIS IS SOMEONE LIKE, IF WE HAVE A BOX THAT SAYS, HAVE YOU INTERACTED WITH CITY ELECTIONS OR THE COMMISSION IN THE PAST? AND THEY SAY, I FILED MILLIONS OF COMPLAINTS BACK IN THE DAY.
AND IT USED TO WORK LIKE THIS, LIKE BACK IN THE NINETIES, LIKE, WOW, THAT'S A VERY UNIQUE AND INTERESTING PERSPECTIVE.
AND I'M GLAD I KNOW THAT IT'S COMING FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS TO, WHO DEALT WITH A PRIOR ITERATION OF A COMMISSION.
SO I THINK I DEFINITELY HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND I DON'T, I THINK THAT WOULD BE INCUMBENT ON THE WORKING GROUP, NOT TO, UM, INAPPROPRIATELY DISCRIMINATE BETWEEN THE RESPONSES TO SAY THIS IS JUST SOME JOE SCHMOE OR THIS WAS A PRIOR CHAIR.
UM, I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S FOR THE WORKING GROUP TO KIND OF, UH, BE JUDICIOUS ABOUT AS THEY READ SURVEY RESPONSES.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN SEE COMMISSIONER TANNY YUCA.
HI, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HI COMMISSIONER TENDER.
UM, I WAS JUST GONNA, UH, I UNDERSTAND COMMISSIONER LEARNERS', UH, CONCERN AND I, I THINK IT'S VALID AND I WAS GOING TO JUST SUGGEST THAT MAYBE WE HAVE A STATEMENT CRAFTED AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SURVEY THAT KIND OF TALKS, UM, THE OVERALL GOAL OF WHAT THE SURVEY IS INTENDING TO ACHIEVE.
AND ALSO WHAT WE WOULD BASICALLY, UM, EXCLUDE FROM THE SCOPE OF THE SURVEY.
AND SO I THINK THAT MIGHT COVER, UM, WHAT HER CONCERN AND I THINK WE COULD CROP THAT PRETTY EASILY.
[01:35:01]
YEAH.IT DEPENDS ON HOW MUCH YOU WANT THIS TO GET OUT.
AND WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN HERE.
MOST OF YOUR NEW ONES DON'T KNOW BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T HAD PRESS AND THEY WILL GO OUT AND TALK TO THE PRESS AND TALK ABOUT US AND TALK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED AND YOU GO HOME AND THAT'S THE FIRST THING YOU SEE ON YOUR EMAIL OR IT'S IN THE BULLDOG OR IT'S IN THE CHRONICLE OR IT'S IN THE STATE MONITOR OR THE MONITOR, EVERY MEETING.
SO YOU NEED TO DECIDE EXACTLY HOW YOU WANT TO FEEL THIS BECAUSE WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT CAN HARDLY WAIT THAT WE'LL BE HERE AND THEY'LL BE AT THE DOOR TALKING ABOUT IT.
OH, I MEAN, I'VE, I'VE BEEN AT SOME OF THOSE MEETINGS.
UM, HENCE HENCE THE SURVEY IDEA AND THE WORKING GROUP IDEA YOU NEED TO THINK ABOUT.
SO THAT'S REALLY LIKE, THAT'S REALLY WHERE I'M GOING.
I'M NOT, I DON'T REALLY CARE IF SOMEBODY HAS BEEN IN FRONT OF THIS COMMISSION OR NOT LIKE THAT TO ME IS LIKE, I MEAN, I, I THINK WHAT COMMISSIONER LEVIN SAID WHEN THE IDEA OF SITTING DOWN WITH PEOPLE IS THERE IS A GREAT, IT'S NOT THAT PEOPLE, WE HAVE TIME FOR THAT, BUT I MEAN, I THINK THAT IS HOW YOU GET TO, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT KIND OF PROBING, LIKE REALLY WAS WHAT WAS HARD ABOUT THIS? WHAT WAS, WHAT OBSTRUCTED YOU FROM BEING ABLE TO REALLY GET TO THE HEART OF WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO? LIKE WRITE THAT AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS MAKE THIS BETTER, NOT HAVE AN OPEN FORM FOR JUST OPEN-ENDED COMPLAINTS AGAINST THE COMMISSION.
IT'S ABOUT CONSTRUCTIVELY MOVING US TOWARD A BETTER CODE.
AND I KNOW THAT AS A IT'S, IT'S A TOUGH, IT'S TOUGH BECAUSE WE NEED TO BE OPEN TO THE WHOLE CITY AND BE, IF WE'RE GOING TO DO SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE OPEN AND AVAILABLE AND ACCESSIBLE TO ALL, WHICH MEANS MAYBE DIFFERENT LANGUAGES.
LIKE, I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT TO THAT.
UM, BUT I DO THINK THAT, UH, W WE HAVE TO ALSO GO BACK TO WHAT COMMISSIONER TEDDY YOU GUYS SAID, WHICH I AGREE WITH, WHICH IS THAT WE CAN HAVE A, UM, THAT STATEMENT WOULD BE VERY IMPORTANT MO ALMOST TO REMIND US OF WHY WE'RE DOING THIS RIGHT, BECAUSE WE WILL LOSE TRACK AND LOSE SIGHT OF WHAT THE PURPOSE OF THIS IS, BUT THEN I DON'T WANT THAT TO BE, IT BECOME THIS WHOLE EFFORT THAT DOESN'T RESULT IN WHAT WE NEED IT TO RESULT IN.
AND I JUST, I REALLY THINK THAT PEOPLE SHOULD KEEP THAT IN MIND.
UM, AND I'LL JUST, UH, BRIEFLY SAY, I DON'T WANT TO DWELL TOO, TOO MUCH ON THE SURVEY ITSELF.
UM, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE WERE AS A WORKING GROUP, HOPING TO DISCUSS TODAY WAS THE IDEA OF, UH, LIKE PITCHING THE RECOMMENDATION THAT WAS KIND OF LAID OUT IN THE SLIDES ABOUT CHANGING THE COMPLAINT FORM AND POTENTIALLY TAKING ACTION ON THAT RECOMMENDATION, UM, AND THE TRAINING, UM, ITSELF.
UH, SO I THINK WHAT I'M GOING TO DO IS MAYBE TACKLE THOSE IN THE ORDER THAT I THINK WILL BE THE EASIEST.
SO THE TRAINING FIRST, UM, SO I THINK THE IDEA THERE, AS WE HAD DISCUSSED, IT IS A KIND OF PARTICULAR TRAINING ON THE CODE THAT WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ADJUDICATING COMPLAINTS ON.
UM, SO WE GET KIND OF NORMAL ETHICS TRAINING THAT EVERY BOARD AND COMMISSION MEMBER WILL GET.
UH, WE GET SOME TRAINING ON THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT, HOW CITY GOVERNMENT WORKS, BUT WE DO NOT GET SPECIFIC TRAINING ON THE CITY ON TWO DASH TWO OR TWO DASH SEVEN, UM, RESULTING IN, YOU KNOW, LIKE FIRST TIME I REMEMBER, UH, JUMPING INTO A MEETING, IT WAS, THERE WAS A COMPLAINT.
IT WAS LIKE HALFWAY THROUGH THE PROCESS AND EVERYONE ELSE WAS LIKE, KIND OF UP TO SPEED ON THE EVIDENCE.
BUT I WAS LOOKING AT THIS KIND OF BRAND NEW CODE, UM, WITH A MILLION QUESTIONS ABOUT NOT EVEN JUST LIKE, WHAT ARE WE DOING AND HOW MUCH TIME DO THEY HAVE AGAIN, BUT SPECIFICALLY, YOU KNOW, LIKE WHAT EXACTLY DOES THIS WORD MEAN IN THE CODE? SO IT KIND OF SPECIFIC TRAINING ABOUT THE CODE THAT WE'RE TASKED WITH GOVERNING AND THE CODE THAT UNDERLIES THE COMPLAINTS THAT WE ADJUDICATE IS SORT OF THE IDEA THERE.
SO WITH THAT, UM, I THINK A QUESTION WOULD BE WELL SUITED FOR CAROLINE WEBSTER WITH THE LAW DEPARTMENT, UM, WHICH IS BASICALLY, WOULD IT BE FEASIBLE TO CRAFT A TRAINING LIKE THAT THAT IS SPECIFIC TO THE ETHICS COMMISSION AND THE CODE THAT WE HAVE JURISDICTION OVER.
SO TO YOU, OR GO AHEAD, SECRETARY LEARNER,
[01:40:02]
IT DOES SOMETHING LIKE THIS ALREADY EXIST IN SOME FORMAT, AT LEAST SIMILARLY THAT, UM, FOR EMPLOYEES OF THE SURE.SO I'LL KICK IT TO CAROLINE WEBSTER, UH, ETHICS COMMISSION, SPECIFIC TRAINING, AND WHETHER SOMETHING LIKE IT ALREADY EXISTS.
THAT IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT COULD BE DONE.
UH, I WOULD THINK THAT, THAT, THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, LYNN CARTER, WHO IS VERY, VERY FAMILIAR WITH YOU ALL WOULD, WOULD BE ABLE TO GIVE THAT KIND OF TRAINING OR SOMEONE ELSE IN MY DIVISION.
UM, YEAH, THERE'S, THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT WE COULD DO THAT.
AND IT COULD BE A SORT OF A KIND OF REFRESHER FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO'VE BEEN DOING IT FOR A WHILE AND THEN, UH, UH, SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, INTRODUCTORY COURSE FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE BRAND NEW.
THERE'S NO REASON THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT COULDN'T BE DONE.
I MEAN, HONESTLY, WE CAN DO ANY KIND OF TRAINING THAT YOU GUYS ASK FOR.
AGAIN, IT'S JUST A QUESTION OF, OF POSTING IT IN THE APPROPRIATE MANNER, DEPENDING ON HOW THE TRAINING IS DONE.
UM, WE HAD A QUESTION BEFORE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE WAY THE, KIND OF THE CLERK'S OFFICE DOES ETHICS TRAINING AND SUCH.
IT COULD BE A LARGE-SCALE TRAINING, BUT SINCE HE WANTS SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE MORE SPECIFIC TO YOU ALL, THAT'S SOMETHING OUR DIVISION DOES RELATIVELY OFTEN IS WE'LL GO TO SPECIFIC BOARDS OR COMMISSIONS AND WE'LL GIVE THEM A SPECIFIC TRAINING ON A TOP THAT THEY WANT TRAINING ON.
IT COULD BE OPEN MEETINGS FOR YOU ALL.
IT COULD BE VERY SPECIFIC ABOUT YOUR DUTIES AND SOME OF THE PROCESSES INVOLVED AND THE VARIOUS DEADLINES THAT COME UP AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO, YEAH, THAT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING WE COULD DO.
AND I THINK, UM, UH, ONE WAY TO AVOID THE, UH, OPEN MEETING PROBLEM POTENTIALLY IS TO, YOU KNOW, LIMIT IT TO, YOU KNOW, CERTAIN NUMBER OF COMMISSIONERS AT A TIME IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LIVE TRAININGS, UM, WHICH I THINK WOULD BE KIND OF IDEAL.
UH, YOU'RE LOOKING AT ME WITH THE, UH, COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, IF YOU HAVE, I THINK THE WHOLE COMMISSION COULD BE ABLE TO BE TRAINED AT ONCE.
AND SO FOR THE WHOLE COMMISSION LAWYER CAN TELL US, RIGHT.
SO IF CAROLINE, UH, OR MS. WEBSTER, IS IT, WOULD IT BE BETTER TO HAVE TRAININGS WITH SMALLER NUMBERS OF COMMISSIONERS, LIKE FOUR AT A TIME, AS OPPOSED TO THE WHOLE COMMISSION? I, MY QUESTION IS BASICALLY WOULD THERE BEING OPEN MEETINGS PROBLEM WITH DOING THE TRAINING FOR EVERYONE ALL AT ONCE.
I THINK YOU COULD DO IT ALL OF YOU TOGETHER.
IT WOULD BE AS LONG AS WE VIEWED IT, IT WAS KIND OF BUILT MORE AS A STAFF BRIEFING AS OPPOSED TO A DISCUSSION ITEM.
SO IN OTHER WORDS, THE STAFF BRIEF BRIEFING COULD BE, YOU KNOW, STOCK PRESENTATION OR STAFF BRIEFING ON DUTIES OF THE ETHICS COMMISSION, OR, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
I MEAN, SO AS LONG AS IT'S BILLED AS SOMETHING THAT, UM, IS NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU WILL THEN BE DISCUSSING AMONG YOURSELVES, UH, IT WOULD STILL HAVE TO BE POSTED AS A MEETING, BUT ANYTHING GETS A STAFF BRIEFING.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO TAKE PUBLIC COMMENT ON.
UH, SO WE STILL HAVE TO KIND OF EVERYONE SIT THERE AND HAVE A MEETING ABOUT IT, BUT IT WOULD PRIMARILY BE A STAFF PRESENTATION.
AND YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO ASK QUESTIONS OF THE INDIVIDUAL, MAKING THE PRESENTATION FOR CLARIFICATION, OR WHAT HAVE YOU.
AND THEN ONCE THAT TRAINING WAS DONE, THEN YOU WOULD JUST ADJOURN YOUR MEETING.
UM, AGAIN, IF IT'S HOSTED BY YOU ALL AND ORGANIZED BY YOU ALL, THEN IT IS A MEETING.
UH, BUT AGAIN, YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE THE PUBLIC, UM, SIGN UP TO SPEAK ON ANY ITEMS. IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S PRESENTED TO THE STAFF BRIEFING, IF YOU DID WANT TO DO IT THE OTHER WAY WITH GROUPS OF SMALLER COMMISSIONERS, THAT'S FINE AS WELL.
UM, AS LONG AS YOU, UM, DID NOT THEN GO AND DISCUSS IT WITH EACH OTHER TO SORT OF ACCIDENTALLY CREATE A WALKING QUORUM.
UM, YOU KNOW, SO WE'D HAVE, YOU'D HAVE TO BE CAREFUL OF THAT, BUT YEAH, THAT'S SOMETHING WE COULD KIND OF WHATEVER YOUR PREFERENCE IS.
WE COULD LOOK AT DOING IT EITHER WAY.
WELL, I THINK THEN WHAT I WOULD, UH, RECOMMEND TO THE COMMISSION SO THAT WE CAN GET TO THE OTHER, UH, RECOMMENDATION FROM THE WORKING GROUP IS THAT WE HAVE A MOTION THAT, UH, DIRECTS THE CITY LAW DEPARTMENT TO, UH, COME UP WITH A TRAINING, UM, LIKE A FORMAT AND AN OUTLINE OF A TRAINING, UH, THAT IS SPECIFIC TO OUR DUTIES AND JURISDICTION.
UM, IF ANYONE WANTS TO TAKE A STAB AT CRAFTING THAT MOTION, OR I CAN JUST DO IT MYSELF, I THINK I JUST DID.
I LIKE IT WHEN Y'ALL DO THE MOTIONS.
I DON'T WANT TO, LIKE, I DON'T WANT TO BE THE OVERBEARING JURY THAT MOVES EVERYTHING.
WE HAVE TO BE SPECIFIC AS TO WHO ACTUALLY PROVIDES THE TRAINING OR IS IT JUST OUR REQUEST THAT THERE BE THAT TRAINING BE PROVIDED TO OUR COMMISSION ON THE CODE AND I JUST DON'T WANT TO BOX US IN UNNECESSARILY, RIGHT? SURE.
SO I THINK THE NATURAL PROVIDER OF THE TRAINING IS THE CITY LAW DEPARTMENT, UM, WHICH HENCE THE KIND OF DIRECTION TO THEM TO DEVELOP
[01:45:01]
IT, UM, AND TO DEVELOP THE OUTLINE OF THE TRAINING.UM, SO THAT, I THINK WHAT WE'RE, WHAT THIS RECOMMENDATION IS HEADING TOWARDS IS A REQUIREMENT THAT COMMISSIONERS HAVE THIS TRAINING.
I THINK I'M SEEING THAT'S THANK YOU.
AND STEP TWO WOULD BE TO, UH, INCORPORATE IT INTO OUR BYLAWS AS A REQUIREMENT, UM, WITHIN A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME UPON APPOINTMENT THAT YOU HAVE THIS DEPARTMENT.
THE COMMISSIONER DAMPER, I SECOND YOUR MOTION AND WANT TO HAVE ANOTHER MOTION IN A MINUTE TO GO TO THE BATHROOM? SURE.
SO I'M GOING TO JUST RESTATE THE MOTION.
THE MOTION IS TO DIRECT THE CITY LAW DEPARTMENT TO, UM, DEVELOP AN OUTLINE FOR A RE UH, TRAINING ON THE COMMISSION'S DUTIES AND, UH, UH, COMMISSION SPECIFIC TRAINING ON OUR JURISDICTION AND OUR DDS SECOND AND BY COMMISSIONER DANBURG I'M GOING TO DO A VERY QUICK ROLL CALL.
COMMISSIONER KALE, COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, COMMISSIONER MCCORMICK, COMMISSIONER LEVINS.
COMMISSIONER DANBURG AND COMMISSIONER TENDER.
AND I THINK, UM, WITH THAT, WE'LL TAKE A BRIEF RECESS.
LET'S UH, WE WILL RECESS FOR FIVE MAX.
WE'LL RECESS FOR FIVE MINUTES AND WE'LL SEE Y'ALL IN A MOMENT.
UM, THE TIME IS 8:04 PM AND WE ARE STILL ON AGENDA ITEM.
AND WE WERE JUST ABOUT TO DISCUSS, UH, THE RECOMMENDATION FROM THE WORKING GROUP TO CHANGE THE COMPLAINT FORM SO THAT THE SPECIFIC SECTION OF CHARTER OR ORDINANCE VIOLATED DOES NOT HAVE TO BE PARTICULARLY REFERENCED, UM, UH, HAPPY TO, UH, GIVE A SUPER QUICK SUMMARY OF SORT OF THE, THE ISSUE AND THE GENESIS OF THE IDEA.
I THINK COMMISSIONER GREENBERG LAID IT OUT PRETTY CLEARLY AND IN DETAIL IN HER PRESENTATION, BUT JUST AS A REFRESHER SO THAT I CAN OPEN IT UP, UM, FOR DISCUSSION AND COMMENTS, THE THINKING WAS THAT IN THE PAST WE'VE HAD CASES WHERE, UM, A CITIZEN HAS FILED A COMPLAINT AND IT'S A CITIZEN WHO IS NOT REPRESENTED BY COUNSEL, A CITIZEN WHO IS NOT NECESSARILY, UH, AN EXPERT IN READING CITY ORDINANCES OR CHARTER PROVISIONS, UM, AND FILES A COMPLAINT.
AND THEN BECAUSE THEY FAILED TO PICK THE RIGHT NUMERICAL CODE THAT DESIGNATES TWO DASH SEVEN DASH, WHATEVER, UM, THE COMPLAINT GETS DISMISSED OR DROPPED, OR, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING HAPPENS WHEN THEY MAY HAVE HAD A CASE.
AND IF, YOU KNOW, GIVEN THE RIGHT, UH, CHANCE OR OPPORTUNITY THEY COULD HAVE, UH, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, MADE THEIR CLAIM, BUT, UH, TECHNICALITIES AND, UH, THAT SPECIFICALLY KIND OF PREVENTED THEM FROM DOING IT.
SO WITH THAT, I'M GOING TO OPEN IT UP FOR DISCUSSION COMMENTS, UM, ON THAT RECOMMENDATION.
IT'S NOT A, I DON'T THINK IT'S A VERY KIND OF LIKE, I THINK THE RECOMMENDATION IS JUST TO SAY IF KNOWN, RIGHT, RIGHT.
UM, IF WE'RE GOING TO PICK LIKE A SPECIFIC PROPOSAL, BUT, UM, COMMISSIONER DANBURG AND THEN I SEE COMMISSIONER LEVIN'S MICROPHONE.
UM, EARLIER THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT OF ILLUSION TO THIS, AND HERE'S MY CONCERN WITH NOT HAVING TO SAY ANYTHING ABOUT A COMPLAINT
[01:50:02]
IS THAT THE PUBLIC IS REALLY UNFAMILIAR WITH WHAT IS OR IS NOT WITHIN THE ETHICS COMMISSION AND WITHIN OUR JURISDICTION.AND SO THEY MIGHT JUST BE MAD AT A CITY COUNCIL MEMBER OR MAD AT A POLICE OFFICER OR MAD AT SOMEBODY WHO SAID SOMETHING THEY THOUGHT WAS RUDE OR WHATEVER, AND THEY WANT US TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
AND THAT ISN'T WHAT WE CAN DO.
THEY, THEY HAVE TH THEY ARE PERFECTLY LEGITIMATE IN THEIR ANGER, BUT IT CAN'T BE DEALT WITH HERE EFFECTIVELY.
AND I THINK, UM, AND THAT'S PROBABLY GOING TO DOVETAIL INTO A CONVERSATION THAT, LIKE, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SOMEONE DOES NOT SAY A SPECIFIC CODE VIOLATION, THEY JUST DESCRIBE EVENTS, UM, AND A LAW FOR THAT, THE JURISDICTIONAL DETERMINATION PART OF THE PROCESS THAT THE CHAIR MAKES AT THE OUTSET ALREADY KIND OF PLAYS A PART IN THIS WHERE THERE'S A DECISION THAT'S MADE.
IS THIS A VIOLATION? IS THIS A CODE THAT IS IN OUR JURISDICTION AND ARE THE EVENTS DESCRIBED? THIS WAS A VERY PARTICULAR CASE.
UM, BUT DO ARE THE EVENTS THAT ARE DESCRIBED IN THE COMPLAINT, DO THEY EVEN MATCH THE SECTION THAT IS ALLEGED TO BE VIOLATED? LIKE IF THAT SECTION IS IN OUR CODE, BUT THE EVENTS ARE DESCRIBING SOMETHING THAT'S COMPLETELY UNRELATED TO THAT SECTION.
IS IT A COMPLAINT THAT'S IN OUR JURISDICTION? SO ALREADY WE KIND OF GRAPPLE WITH THOSE QUESTIONS, BUT YOU, BUT YOU CAN'T HAVE AN EX PARTE DISCUSSION WITH THAT MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC, CORRECT.
TO SAY, TO LET THEM KNOW THAT THIS ISN'T WITHIN OUR JURISDICTION IN LESS XYZ.
UH, SO UNTIL THEY ACTUALLY GET IN FRONT OF THE COMMISSION AND OUR OUTSIDE COUNSEL OR INSIDE COUNSEL, OR WHOEVER'S ADVISING US, UH, LETS US KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT THEY UPHOLD YOUR DECISION, THAT IT'S NOT WITHIN OUR JURISDICTION.
AND HERE'S WHY, OR, YOU KNOW, THAT IN FACT IT IS WITHIN OUR JURISDICTION, BUT IT'S NOT THERE.
YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST, IT'S, I DUNNO, IT'S, IT'S DIFFICULT TO, YOU KNOW, AND IF YOU, IF YOU DO TRY TO STEER THEM, IT'S NOT NECESSARILY APPRECIATE IT.
THEY WANT THIS COMMISSION TO HEAR IT.
SO COMMISSIONER LEVIN'S AND THEN COMMISSIONER GREENBERG.
SO FIRST OF ALL, ONE OF THE, THE SUGGESTIONS THAT I THINK IS, UH, THAT I THINK IS A GREAT ONE, IS THAT THE AGENDA SHOULDN'T HAVE TO SAY THE SPECIFIC CODE THAT HAS BEEN ALLEGEDLY VIOLATED.
I DON'T KNOW IF CHANGING THAT.
I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANY OPEN MEETINGS IMPLICATIONS OF THAT.
AND I DON'T KNOW THAT OUR CODE REQUIRES THAT WE DO THAT, BUT THAT SEEMS LIKE IF WE JUST SAY THIS IS, YOU KNOW, BOB VERSUS SALLY, WE'RE GOING TO HEAR THAT ONE.
UM, THERE'S SOME OF THE OTHER ONES ABOUT WHICH I'M SOMEWHAT LESS ENTHUSIASTIC.
UM, THE IT'S A HIGHLY TECHNICAL MATTER TO COMPLY WITH THIS CODE AS A PACK OR A CANDIDATE OR WHATNOT.
WE SHOULDN'T LOWER THAT BURDEN TO BRING SANCTIONS AGAINST PEOPLE WHO FAIL TO COMPLY.
IT SHOULD BE AT LEAST AS TECHNICAL TO PUNISH SOMEONE FOR FAILURE AS IT IS TO COMPLY IN THE FIRST PLACE.
UM, AND I THINK IF WE SAY, WELL, YOU DON'T HAVE TO CITE THE SPECIFIC, UH, THING.
WE RUN INTO A DUE PROCESS PROBLEM.
UM, AND SOMEBODY COMES IN HERE READY TO DEFEND THEMSELVES ON SUBSECTION A OIL.
AND IT TURNS OUT, GOSH, IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SUBSECTION G UM, WELL NOW WE HAVE SOMEONE MORE THAN LIKELY UNREPRESENTED OR AT LEAST OFTEN UNREPRESENTED WHO HAS TO ON THE FLY REWORK, HIS OR HER DEFENSE.
UM, AND IF THEY COME IN WITH COUNSEL AND WE JUST SAY TO THE COMPLAINANT, OKAY, WELL, YOU CAN AMEND AND WE COME BACK.
WELL, NOW WE'RE NOW WE'RE JUST, UM, INCREASING THE COST OF SOMEONE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY'VE DONE ANYTHING WRONG.
WE HAVEN'T EVEN DETERMINED IF THEY'VE DONE SOMETHING WRONG YET, BUT THE PROCESS BECOMES THE PUNISHMENT.
UM, IF SOMEONE WANTS TO DISMISS THEIR COMPLAINT BECAUSE THEY FAILED TO CITE THE SPECIFIC ONE AND THEN, THEN RE ALLEGED COMPLAINTS CITING THE CORRECT ONE, I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S A REASONABLE THING.
UM, AND THEN FINALLY THE, UH, THIS BODY
[01:55:01]
IS TECHNICALLY PERMITTED TO FILE ITS OWN COMPLAINT, UM, OR NOT.DID I SAY COMMITTED? I MEANT PERMITTED, UM, TO FILE ITS OWN COMPLAINT, RIGHT? UH, COMMISSIONER DRINK, GREENBERG, YOU'RE SHAKING YOUR HEAD.
UH, WE ARE ALLOWED TO, I'M JUST SHAKING MY HEAD BECAUSE I JUST DON'T THINK IT'S A PRACTICAL SOLUTION.
AND, UH, I ACTUALLY THINK THE, WE SHOULDN'T BE PERMITTED TO DO THAT.
I THINK IT WOULD BE FINE IF, FOR EXAMPLE, I WANT TO FILE A COMPLAINT.
UM, I CAN STEP OUT OF MY ROLE AS A COMMISSIONER STEP INTO A ROLE AS A, UH, AS A PRIVATE CITIZEN AND I DON'T GET TO VOTE.
I JUST GET TO PRESENT EVIDENCE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
HOPEFULLY IF I'M ON THIS COMMISSION, I CAN GET THE RIGHT, UH, CODE PROVISION THAT'S BEEN VIOLATED.
UM, AND BECAUSE I THINK, I THINK WE RUN INTO, UM, BY MAKING IT EASIER TO PUNISH PEOPLE FOR COMPLYING WITH A HIGHLY TECHNICAL LAW, WE HAVE THE UNINTENDED EFFECT OF GETTING PEOPLE OUT OF THE PROCESS.
AND I THINK THAT IS THE EXACT W WE NEED SOME TRANSPARENCY AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR, BUT WE DON'T WANT TO SEND PEOPLE HOME FOR FEAR THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE PUNISHED FOR NOT UNDERSTANDING THIS CODE.
UM, I'LL GO COMMISSIONERS GREENBERG THEN SECRETARY OF HONOR.
UM, BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, IT'S REALLY DISTURBING TO SEE COMPLAINTS FILED ALLEGED BEHAVIOR.
THAT'S CLEARLY A VIOLATION AND THEY'RE JUST, UM, ALLEGING THE WRONG SECTION OF THE CODE.
UM, I THINK YOU WERE CHAIR AT THE TIME WHEN SOMEONE ALLEGED THAT A COUNCIL MEMBER HAD USED THEIR COUNCIL OFFICE, UM, FOR CAMPAIGNING AND THEY JUST PUT IN THE WRONG SECTION OF THE CODE AND IT NEVER GOT REFILED.
I THINK PEOPLE GET DISCOURAGED.
UM, AND IT WASN'T A TECHNICAL, IT WASN'T A REALLY TECHNICAL THING THAT WE WOULD HAVE BEEN HELPING WITH.
IT WAS REALLY JUST A STRAIGHTFORWARD, WRONG NUMBER IN THE FORM.
AND I JUST HATE TO SEE PEOPLE VIOLATING OUR ETHICS RULES.
AND, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE VIOLATE ETHICS RULES AND NOBODY MAKES A COMPLAINT LIKE COMPLAINTS GET MADE, AND THEY'RE BASICALLY DROPPED BASED ON A TECHNICALITY.
AND THAT IS THE, THE THING THAT I THINK WE SHOULD FIX.
AND I DON'T THINK WE THAT'S THE SAN ANTONIO METHOD, I WILL SAY IN RESPONSE TO PEOPLE WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT ALL SORTS OF THINGS.
WE'VE CERTAINLY SHOULD STILL HAVE ON THE FORM THAT THIS IS THE JURISDICTION OF THE COMMISSION.
AND STILL, IF YOU LOOK AT SAN ANTONIO'S ANNUAL REPORT, MORE OF THEIR COMPLAINTS ARE, ARE DROPPED AND NOT EVEN HAVING A HEARING THEN GOING FORWARD, POSSIBLY BECAUSE OF THE SIMPLER FORM OR POSSIBLY BECAUSE OF OTHER ASPECTS OF THEIR CODE.
I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE, BUT IF PEOPLE MAKE A COMPLAINT AND WE HAVE TO SAY, THAT'S NOT IN OUR JURISDICTION, THAT'S NOT THE WORST THING IN THE WORLD COMPARED TO THEM MAKING A COMPLAINT.
WE SAY, IT'S NOT IN OUR JURISDICTION, JUST BECAUSE THE NUMBER'S WRONG SECRETARY LEARNER.
UM, SO IT, IT FEELS TO ME LIKE WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IN THE LAW CONTEXT THAT PEOPLE NEED A REPRESENTATION TO DO THINGS CORRECTLY, AND THEY'RE PRO BONO ATTORNEYS THAT DO STUFF, I'M GOING TO SAY WHAT IT FEELS LIKE SHOULD HAPPEN, KNOWING THAT IT'S UNLIKELY THAT THESE SOLUTIONS ARE PRACTICAL.
ONE WOULD BE THAT THERE WOULD BE A HANDBOOK OR A GUIDE ON OUR WEBSITE THAT THERE WOULD BE A HANDBOOK OR A GUIDE ON OUR WEBSITE AS TO HOW, YOU KNOW, MAYBE A TYPICAL EITHER SOME HYPOTHETICAL SCENARIOS OR, UM, WHAT THIS MEANS, SOME PLAIN LANGUAGE.
AND THIS WOULD GO WITH OUR EQUITY, YOU KNOW, W WITH OUR EFFORTS TO, TO DRIVE EQUITY IN THIS WHOLE, UM, EFFORT OR WHATEVER IN OUR PROCESS.
UM, SO A HANDBOOK, I HAVE NO IDEA WHO WOULD DO THAT.
I, IT FEELS LIKE THE LAW OFFICE WOULD BE THE EXPERTS THAT WE WOULD NEED TO DO THAT.
BUT, UM, SO THAT'S WHY I THINK IT'S IMPRACTICAL.
I DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE ANY BUDGET FOR ANY OF THIS STUFF.
THE SECOND THING IS OFTENTIMES, YOU KNOW, I'M SURE SOME OF US WHO ARE ATTORNEYS HAVE BEEN PRO BONO ATTORNEYS.
UM, IF THERE ARE CIVIC ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE, THAT ARE SET UP TO ASSIST PEOPLE WITH THINGS LIKE THIS, THAT MAY BE ON OUR WEBSITE COULD BE, YOU KNOW, A LISTING,
[02:00:01]
UM, THAT WOULD NOT BE, WE WOULD NOT PICK AND CHOOSE.WE COULD DO AN OPEN SOLICITATION FOR ORGANIZATIONS THAT WOULD, UM, BE AVAILABLE TO ASSIST PEOPLE IN FILING THEIR COMPLAINT WITHOUT BEING PART, NOT REPRESENTING THEM, BUT JUST IN THE FILING, LIKE SORT OF, YOU KNOW, ANYWAY, I THINK, YOU KNOW, WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, THAT WOULD, THAT'S ANOTHER THOUGHT I HAVEN'T THOUGHT THROUGH THE RAMIFICATIONS OF THAT, BUT MAYBE THAT'S POSSIBLE.
WAS THERE A HAND ON THIS SIDE THAT I MISSED? UM, I WAS CHAIR KILL, AND THEN I'VE GOT A QUICK COMMENT, BUT GOOD.
SO ONE OF MY QUESTIONS AND COMMISSIONER GREENBERG BRIEFLY TOUCHED ON IT WAS HOW EFFECTIVE THE SAN ANTONIO FORM HAS BEEN, AND WHETHER Y'ALL TALK TO ANY COMMISSIONERS IN SAN ANTONIO TO, TO, UM, GET THEIR EVALUATION OF THAT.
UM, CAUSE I, I LIKE, I MEAN, I I'M LIKE YOU, I REALLY CAN'T STAND WHEN WE HAVE TO DISMISS SOMETHING BECAUSE OF A TECHNICALITY LIKE THAT.
UM, AND AT THE SAME TIME, I SEE SOME OF THE, UH, JUDGMENT CALLS THAT WOULD BE PLACED UPON THE CHAIR AND, UH, PARDON ME AND VICE CHAIR.
I'M NOT SURE MAKING MY RESPONSIBILITY, BUT I'M JUST SAYING THAT'S A PRETTY BIG JUDGMENT CALL ON SOME CASES.
UM, AND I JUST, I JUST WANTED TO THROW THAT OUT THERE AND TO SEE IF, YOU KNOW, Y'ALL KNEW WHAT PEOPLE, WHAT THE COMMISSIONERS IN SAN ANTONIO FELT, IF THEY FELT IT WAS WORKING, I COULDN'T EVEN FIND THE LIST OF COMMISSION MEMBERS OR I COULDN'T FIND THEIR CONTACT INFORMATION, UH, COMMISSIONER STANTON.
WHAT ABOUT COMPROMISING? I MEAN, WE HAVE ON THE FORM, WHICH CODE DO YOU THINK HAS BEEN VIOLATED, BUT NOT MAKE THAT A CRITERION WHERE WE DISMISS THE COMPLAINT BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T GET THE CORRECT CODE.
I MEAN, THERE'S NOTHING THAT PRECLUDES US FROM, FROM DOING THAT.
SO THERE IS, UM, IT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
UH, THERE IS A PART OF OUR CITY CODE AND I WOULD HAVE TO JUMP TO IT, BUT, UM, THAT THERE ARE REQUIREMENTS IN RIGHT THERE, REQUIREMENTS FOR WHAT'S ON THE COM WHAT A COMPLAINT IS, A COMPLAINT HAS TO CONTAIN CERTAIN THINGS.
AND ONE OF THEM, I BELIEVE IS THAT IT CITE THE PROVISION OF CODE OR THE CHARTER THAT'S BEING VIOLATED.
SO, SO ANYTHING THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING RIGHT NOW WILL TAKE THE FORM OF A RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL, UM, TO CHANGE THE COMPLAINT FORM REQUIREMENT IN CITY CODE.
UM, THE OTHER, I MEAN, WE CAN ALSO THOUGH, LIKE TALK ABOUT OTHER CHANGES THAT WE COULD MAKE POTENTIALLY THAT ARE OUTSIDE OF A RECOMMENDATION TO COUNCIL, BUT INSTEAD HAVE TO DO WITH OUR OWN PROCESS.
UM, BUT THIS SPECIFICALLY THE COMPLAINT FORM AND WHAT'S ON IT IS A CITY CODE PROBLEM.
IT REQUIRES THAT YOU LIST, WHAT CODE DO YOU THINK IS BEING VIOLATED, BUT DOES IT SAY EXPLICITLY IF YOU PICK THE WRONG CODE, IT WILL NOT BE HEARD IF I MAY.
IT'S TWO DASH SEVEN DASH 41, B AS IN BOY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
NOW I'LL READ IT FOR THE GROUP, A COMPLAINT, ALLEGING A VIOLATION OF A PROVISION WITHIN THE JURISDICTION OF THE ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION SHALL SPECIFY EACH CODE SECTION OR CHARTER PROVISION ALLEGED TO HAVE BEEN VIOLATED, PERIOD.
UM, SO I THINK THEN LIKE IF WE WERE TO ADOPT A RECOMMENDATION, IT WOULD BE A RECOMMENDATION TO COUNCIL TO ADJUST THIS LANGUAGE SOMEHOW TO SAY, IF NOT SPECIFY, UH, TO SAY, YOU KNOW, SO SPECIFY EACH CODE SECTION OR CHARTER PROVISION, ALLEGED TO HAVE BEEN VIOLATED IF KNOWN OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
UM, THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF RIGHT, BUT IT DOESN'T SAY IT HAS TO BE CORRECT.
RIGHT? SO THE COMPLAINT SHALL SPECIFY EACH CODE OR CHARTER PROVISION ALLEGED TO HAVE BEEN VIOLATED BY THE INDIVIDUAL I PUT DOWN.
THIS IS THE CODE THAT I THINK IT DOESN'T SAY IT HAS TO BE CORRECT IN ORDER TO BE HEARD BY THE COMMISSION.
WELL, UM, NO, THAT'S IT THERE'S I SEE WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM.
SO IT'S YEAH, AN ASSUMPTION OR PRESUMPTION HERE IN THAT STATEMENT AND IT'S A LOOPHOLE IS WHAT I'M IS HOW I INTERPRETED.
I WOULD BE FOR NOT REQUIRING IT, BUT I'M SAYING READING THIS RIGHT HERE, I DON'T SEE IN HERE THAT IT SAYS YOU HAVE TO BE CORRECT OR ELSE IT WILL BE THROWN OUT.
[02:05:01]
TO, YOU HAVE TO SPECIFY.SO YOU'RE SPECIFYING, UH, YOU'RE SPECIFYING AS PART OF THE ALLEGATION, RIGHT? SO THE, THE COMPLAINT IS AN ALLEGATION AND YOU'RE ALLEGING THAT CERTAIN FACTS HAPPENED AND YOU'RE ALLEGING THAT THOSE FACTS CONSTITUTE A VIOLATION OF THIS CODE THAT I HAVE SPECIFIED.
UM, SO, UH, THE WAY I UNDERSTAND IT IS THE WAY I UNDERSTAND THIS CODE AND HAVE UNDERSTOOD IT AS I'VE HAD TO MAKE JURISDICTIONAL DETERMINATIONS, IS THAT THE CODE SPECIFIED IN THE COMPLAINT AS REQUIRED BY THE CITY CODE? LIKE THE PROVISION THAT'S SPECIFIED IN THE COMPLAINT IS PART OF THE COMPLAINT.
IT IS, IT KIND OF IS THE COMPLAINT COMBINED WITH THE FACTS THAT ARE ALLEGED AND THE QUESTION OF WHETHER OR NOT IT'S IN OUR JURISDICTION, IF THE CODE SPECIFIED OR THE CODE SECTION OR CHARTER PROVISION SPECIFIED IS NOT TECHNICALLY IN OUR JURISDICTION, THOSE ARE GROUNDS TO DISMISS.
UM, OR IF THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS OF A COMPLAINT, IT COMES TO LIGHT THAT THE FACTS THAT ARE REALLY ALLEGED DON'T AMOUNT TO A VIOLATION OF THAT SECTION, EVEN IF THERE'S ANOTHER SECTION ENTIRELY, THAT REALLY WAS VIOLATED AND IT IS IN OUR JURISDICTION, IT JUST WASN'T PART OF THE COMPLAINT FORM ITSELF.
SO, YEAH, COMMISSIONER DANBURG COMMISSIONER LEVIN'S POINT, I THINK, IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ON THIS.
UM, IT VIOLATES DUE PROCESS TO HAVE ANYONE HAVE A HEARING WHERE THEY ARE NOT NOTIFIED OF WHAT THEY ARE BEING COMPLAINED ABOUT.
AND JUST TO GIVE Y'ALL SOME HISTORIC PERSPECTIVE.
WE'RE ONLY DISCUSSING RIGHT NOW, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A CITIZEN, WHO'S NOT AN ATTORNEY WHO DOESN'T HAVE AN ATTORNEY.
WHAT HAPPENS WITH CITIZEN COMES IN HERE AND FILES A COMPLAINT THAT HAS BEEN THE EXPERIENCE SINCE A COUPLE OF Y'ALL HAVE BEEN ON HERE.
MOST OF THE TIME, IT'S NOT THE EXPERIENCE OF THE COMMISSION.
HISTORICALLY, OUR EXPERIENCE HISTORICALLY IS THAT 80% OF THE COMPLAINTS ARE BROUGHT BY THE CITY CONTROLLER, VERY LAWYERED UP ALL THE STAFF IN THE WORLD TO DO INVESTIGATIONS ALL THE MONEY IN THE WORLD TO PROSECUTE SOMEBODY WHO MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE ANSWER THEIR CITY CELL PHONE ON AN EMERGENCY CALL FROM THEIR WIFE.
AND WE HAVE GOT TO BE LOOKING AT THIS FROM THE SIDE OF DUE PROCESS, THAT IF SOMEBODY IS DEFENDING THEMSELVES, THEY HAVE GOT TO KNOW WHAT IT IS THEY'RE ACCUSED OF DOING AND THE DATES SO THAT THEY CAN GET THEIR ALIBI AND SAY, I WASN'T EVEN IN TOWN THAT WEEK, I WASN'T ON THE CITY PAYROLL THAT WEEK THAT'S 80 OR 90% OF WHAT WE USUALLY GET.
IT'S VERY UNUSUAL TO HAVE THE COMPLAINTS FROM INDIVIDUAL CITIZENS WHO AREN'T THEMSELVES, LAWYERS COMPLAINING ABOUT OTHER CITIZENS WHO ARE THEMSELVES LAWYERS OR HAVE LAWYERS.
WE GET THOSE, BUT IT'S NOT OUR MAIN DEAL.
WELL, ONE THING THAT ALL OFFER AND I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT PERSPECTIVE.
AND I THINK TO ME, WHAT IT HIGHLIGHTS IS THE KIND OF ROLE OF THE JURISDICTIONAL DETERMINATION ITSELF.
CAUSE THERE HAVE BEEN OCCASIONS, UM, THAT I'VE OBSERVED.
AND I THINK MAYBE ONE OR TWO TIMES WHERE I'VE ACTUALLY BEEN IN THE CHAIR TO MAKE THAT DETERMINATION WHERE IT'S MULTIPLE CODE VIOLATIONS THAT ARE ALLEGED AND SOME OF THEM ARE IN OUR JURISDICTION AND SOME OF THEM AREN'T RIGHT.
AND SO WHAT ENDS UP HAPPENING IS THAT THERE'S A NOTICE SENT TO THE PARTIES THAT WE'RE GOING TO SCHEDULE A PRELIMINARY HEARING.
AND THIS IS WHAT IT'S ABOUT BECAUSE THERE'S A JURISDICTIONAL DETERMINATION THAT WAS MADE ON THESE OTHER VIAL, ALLEGED VIOLATIONS THAT DIDN'T MAKE THE CUT.
AND EVERY TIME THERE IS A JURISDICTIONAL DETERMINATION, UM, THE COMMISSION ALWAYS HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THAT, UM, TO OVERTURN THE RULING OF THE CHAIR AS WELL.
UM, SO WHAT I THINK WOULD FUNCTIONALLY HAPPEN.
SO LET'S GO WITH THE HYPOTHETICAL THAT THERE IS A CITIZEN COMPLAINANT, UM, THAT DOESN'T KNOW THE CODE VERY WELL AND FILES A COMPLAINT.
AND THEY SAY, I THINK IT'S SOMETHING IN TWO DASH SEVEN, MAYBE HERE, BUT HERE'S WHAT HAPPENED.
SOMEONE, UH, HAS A BUSINESS INTEREST AND THEY DIRECTED MONEY TO THAT BUSINESS INTEREST CITY MONEY TO THAT BUSINESS INTEREST.
SO THERE WOULD BE A JURISDICTIONAL DETERMINATION THAT'S MADE.
AND IT WOULD BE UP TO THE CHAIR TO SAY, IS THIS POTENTIALLY IF TRUE, WOULD THIS AMOUNT TO A VIOLATION OF OUR CODE? AND THEN ASSUMING THAT THAT DETERMINATION IS YES, THAT IS LIKELY THAT COULD BE A VIOLATION OF THE CODE.
IF THE FACTS ALLEGED ARE TRUE, THEN THE NOTICE
[02:10:01]
THAT GOES OUT WOULD SAY, HERE IS THE POTENTIAL VIOLATION THAT IS GOING TO BE THE SUBJECT OF THE HEARING.UM, SO THERE'S ALWAYS A NOTICE THAT PROCEEDS A PRELIMINARY HEARING A FEW DAYS BEFORE A PRELIMINARY HEARINGS ACTUALLY SET.
UM, BUT I, ONE THING I DO WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE IS THAT IT DOES PUT A LOT ON THE CHAIR, UM, TO KIND OF MAKE THAT CALL AND IT WEIGHS A LITTLE BIT INTO THE TIER TWO.
THE THING THAT, WHERE I'M ACTUALLY ON THE FENCE, IS THAT A WAYS INTO THE TERRITORY OF WRITING A COMPLAINT FOR THE COMPLAINANT OR KIND OF PERFECTING A COMPLAINT FOR THE COMPLAINANT? UM, I, WHERE I ULTIMATELY LAND IS, I DON'T THINK IT'S QUITE, IT DOESN'T QUITE MEET THAT FOR ME.
LIKE, I DON'T THINK IT'S QUITE WRITING THE COMPLAINANTS COMPLAINT FOR THEM.
IF IT'S JUST TO SAY HERE'S A FACT PATTERN, THEY THINK IT'S A VIOLATION, THIS IS THE LAW.
AND IT'S KIND OF LIKE IN, IN CIVIL PROCEEDINGS, ME NOT BEING A LITIGATOR.
SOMEONE CAN TOTALLY JUMP ALL OVER ME IF YOU KNOW, BETTER THAN ME, BUT, UM, THERE'S, YOU KNOW, THE, WHAT IS IT, THE WELL-PLAYED COMPLAINT RULE THAT, YOU KNOW, UH, UH, PLAINTIFF DOES NOT HAVE TO SAY UNDER THIS PRECEDENT, THIS STATUTE PRECISELY TO SAY I WAS HIT, THIS PERSON WAS DRUNK AND I'VE GOT BILLS.
UM, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE SO PARTICULAR AND SO PRECISE WITH ALL THE MAGIC WORDS TO BE A LAWSUIT, IT'S STILL A LAWSUIT AND THE JUDGE CAN DO WITH IT, WHAT HE WANTS, BUT THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE MY COMMENTS.
I ACTUALLY, SINCE I, I AM A TRIAL LAWYER BY ALL MEANS, CORRECT.
I I'M, I'M NOT GOING TO CORRECT ANYTHING YOU SAID, BECAUSE WHAT YOU SAID IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
UM, AND THERE'S THE FAIR NOTICE STANDARD.
IF YOU CAN, YOU CAN READ THE PETITION AND YOU CAN SAY, OKAY, I GET THE GENERAL IDEA HERE.
THE PROBLEM IS, AND THE REASON I DON'T THINK THAT APPLIES IT IN THE SAME WAY HERE AS HERE, WE HAVE A VERY COMPRESSED TIME SCHEDULE, UM, IN A LAWSUIT FOR BETTER OR WORSE, THEY TAKE A LONG TIME.
UM, AND THE, UH, I'M HAPPY ABOUT THAT WHEN I'M BILLING BY THE HOUR.
NOT SO, UM, BUT HERE WE HAVE, WE HAVE A VERY COMPRESSED TIME SCHEDULE.
UM, AND I THINK PROBABLY FOR GOOD REASON, UM, WE DON'T WANT TO DRAG OUT THE PROCESS UNNECESSARILY.
UM, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE, UH, YOU DON'T HAVE A BUNCH OF DISCOVERY.
YOU DON'T HAVE TIME FOR THE DEFENDANT TO, UM, FOR THE, THE ACCUSED REALLY TO, TO FLESH OUT WHAT EXACTLY OKAY.
I GET THE GENERAL IDEA OF WHAT I'M BEING ACCUSED OF, BUT NOW I GET TO, I GET TO PROD INTO IT AND FIND OUT AND REALLY PIN YOU DOWN ON WHAT EXACTLY YOU'RE ACCUSING ME OF DOING.
BUT THEN THE, THE ACCUSED HAS TO COME IN AND BE READY FOR ANY CHANGES THAT MIGHT BE MADE AT THE LAST MINUTE BY THE, BY THE ACCUSER.
SO I THINK THE IDEA OF FAIR NOTICES IS WORTH THINKING ABOUT, BUT IN ORDER TO PUT SOMETHING IN THAT PROTECTS THE ACCUSER, WE NEED TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT SIMILARLY PROTECTS THE ACCUSED.
AND I THINK WE ALWAYS HAVE TO BE MINDFUL.
AND I, UH, THIS IS, UM, THIS IS DIFFERENT THAN, THAN THE CRIMINAL LAW, BUT THERE ARE POTENTIAL CRIMINAL IMPLICATIONS OF WHAT HAPPENS HERE.
UM, AND FOR SO MANY PEOPLE, THE PROCESS BECOMES THE PUNISHMENT.
THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS GETTING HAULED IN AND HELD IN JAIL FOR SIX MONTHS.
IT'S NOT THE SAME, BUT THE PRINCIPLE REMAINS THAT, UM, YOU SHOULDN'T BE CHILLED FROM PARTICIPATING IN OUR POLITICAL PROCESS FOR FEAR THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE, UH, BLINDSIDED BY A COMPLAINT IN THIS, IN THIS COMMISSION.
THANK YOU FOR THAT REMAIN SOMEWHAT ALSO TOO, DEPENDING ON THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS WITH RIGHT.
I WASN'T CALLED ON EITHER, BUT THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON THE COMPLAINANT, RIGHT? SO WHAT ARE THEY COMPLAINING OF THAT THE DEFENDANT OR THE RESPONDENT NEEDS TO DEFEND THEMSELVES ABOUT? SURE.
UM, I HAVE THOUGHTS, BUT I'M GOING TO GO FROM AFTER THE JURISDICTIONAL DETERMINATION, THERE WILL BE NOTICE.
AND THEN NO, I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD ALLOW THE COMPLAINANT TO JUST CHANGE WHAT THEY'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT AS YOU'RE DESCRIBING.
I MEAN, ONCE THEY'VE DESCRIBED A BEHAVIOR IN THE COMPLAINT AND THERE WAS A JURISDICTIONAL DETERMINATION OF WHAT PORTION OF THE CODE, IF IT APPLIES, WOULD APPLY AND THAT'S IT, THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE BEING ACCUSED OF.
AND THAT'S WHAT THE HEARING WOULD
[02:15:01]
BE ABOUT.IT WOULD NOT BE OPEN TO OH, BUT THEY ALSO DID BLAH, BLAH, LIKE JUST ADDING NEW COMPLAINTS.
YOU MEAN THE FACT PATTERN WOULD BE ESTABLISHED REGARDLESS OF THE THINGS, BASED ON WHAT THEY'VE DESCRIBED, UM, IN THE COMPLAINT WE'RE ONLY WORRIED ABOUT DO THEY HAVE TO GET THE NUMBER AND LETTERS, RIGHT.
I MEAN, WE COULD ALSO AS SORT OF A COMPROMISE, HAVE A CHECK BOX OR TWO CHECK BOXES, 2.2 DASH TWO AND TWO DASH SEVEN, YOU COULD CHECK ONE OR THE OTHER OR BOTH.
AND THAT SORT OF SATISFIES EVEN THE REQUIREMENT OF THE CODE.
BUT IT'S SURE MAKES IT EASIER THAN HAVING TO SAY, YOU KNOW, WHICH, YOU KNOW, TWO DASH SEVEN DASH 74 B OR WHATEVER THAT, WHATEVER, YOU KNOW, THAT IT'S, DOESN'T HAVE TO BE SO SPECIFIC.
AND THAT, THAT'S ACTUALLY ANOTHER VERY INTERESTING THOUGHT THAT I DON'T THINK WE'VE TALKED ABOUT YET, WHICH IS CHANGING THE FORM TO SAY LIKE IF WE HAD IN THE FORM, HERE'S TWO DASH SEVEN AND HERE ARE THE SUB CHAPTERS.
CAUSE OUR JURISDICTION ACTUALLY DOES BREAK DOWN INTO SUB CHAPTERS.
UM, THERE ARE SOME SUB CHAPTERS, I THINK OF TWO DEATHS, SEVEN THAT WE DO HAVE JURISDICTION OVER.
AND SOME THAT WE DON'T AND MAYBE HAVING AT LEAST THE HEADINGS OF THE SUB CHAPTERS, UM, SO THAT THEY CAN SEE, IS THIS A CONFLICT OF INTEREST PROBLEM? IS THIS A LIKE, RIGHT.
UM, BUT I THINK, FOR EXAMPLE, THE ONE WHO WAS USING THEIR OFFICE, PERHAPS IN APPROPRIATELY, THE, IT WAS LISTED AS CONFLICT OF INTEREST, WHICH WAS WHEN IT WAS A CAMPAIGN FINANCE THING OR USE OF CITY FACILITIES, RIGHT.
INAPPROPRIATE USE OF CITY FACILITIES, WHATEVER, WE DIDN'T DECIDE WHAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE RIGHT CODE.
UM, WE JUST KNEW THE CODE THAT WAS LISTED.
WASN'T THE BEHAVIOR THAT WAS DESCRIBED.
AND I THINK, UM, ONE THING ON, I DO WANT TO COMMENT BRIEFLY ON THE, ON THE NOTICE QUESTION, CAUSE I THINK IT'S VERY, VERY IMPORTANT.
UM, WHAT I, ONE THING THAT I'VE THOUGHT OF IN THE PAST IS WHETHER OR NOT THERE SHOULD BE A PROCESS TO AMEND A COMPLAINT LIKE THERE IS IN A NORMAL CIVIL PROCESS, LIKE TELL THEM LIKE IF A COMPLAINT IS STILL ALIVE, BUT YOU CAN FILE AN AMENDED COMPLAINT AS OPPOSED TO DISMISSING IT AND TELLING THEM TO COME BACK.
AND THAT'S WHERE I DO GET SOME NOTICE CONCERNS BECAUSE IF YOU LET SOME, I MEAN, WE DON'T, WE HAVE A COMPRESSED TIMELINE AND IF YOU LET SOMEONE AMEND A COMPLAINT A WEEK BEFORE A HEARING, THAT'S A HUGE PROBLEM.
AND COMPLETELY, YOU KNOW, LIKE IMAGINE WE ALREADY HAD A PRELIMINARY HEARING AND NOW WE'RE HAVING A FINAL HEARING AND THEY'VE HAD THIS WHOLE LEFT-FIELD COMPLAINT THAT COMES OUT OF NOWHERE SAYING HERE'S ANOTHER CODE VIOLATION TO THINK ABOUT, UM, AND DEVELOP A DEFENSE AGAINST LIKE THAT DUE PROCESS PROBLEMS ARE BOUND THERE TOO.
UM, I DO THINK THAT THE, THE TIME THAT IS THE TIME THAT USUALLY OCCURS BETWEEN THE FILING OF A COMPLAINT AND THE JURISDICTIONAL DETERMINATION AND NOTICE THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE A HEARING, UM, OR RATHER THE TIME BETWEEN NOTICE OF A HEARING IN THE HEARING ITSELF, I THINK IS WHO, WHAT IS IT? UM, IF SOMEONE KNOWS, PLEASE JUMP IN I'M I'M HAVING TO WRITE.
SO CAROLINE WEBSTER, IF YOU HAPPEN TO KNOW BETWEEN THE, THE TIMELINE BETWEEN SENDING OUT NOTICE OF A PRELIMINARY HEARING AND THE PRELIMINARY HEARING ITSELF, IT'S UH, SORRY.
I WAS LOOKING AT THE JURISDICTION ART, UH, LET'S SEE.
UH, VICE CHAIR, KALE AND SECTION TWO OF OUR NOTEBOOK UNDER AF UH, G UH, SECTION TWO TAB TWO.
OH, I SEE THE RULES AND PROCEDURES FOR OUR G YEAH.
E AS IN EDWARD, G AS IN GIRL, RIGHT? SORRY.
GET, I THINK THE FINAL HEARINGS TALKS ABOUT THE FINAL HEARING SHALL BE HELD NOT LATER IN THE 60TH DAY AFTER THE DETERMINATION, BY THE COMMISSION, THAT THERE ARE REASONABLE GROUNDS TO BELIEVE THAT A VIOLATION WITHIN THE JURISDICTION OF THE COMMISSION HAS OCCURRED.
SO THE QUESTION IS THE PRELIMINARY HEARING WOULD, Y'ALL LIKE ME TO READ THAT.
AND THAT'S COMING OUT OF OUR RULES.
[02:20:01]
OKAY.AND IT'S ON THE BACK OF THE FIRST PAGE, UNDER F AS IN NO G AS IN GIRL.
NOTICE OF PRELIMINARY HEARING NO LATER THAN THE 10TH WORKING DAY AFTER RECEIPT OF A COMPLAINT BY ERC ERC SHALL NOTIFY IN WRITING THE COMPLAINANT AND THE RESPONDENT HAVE A DATE AND TIME FOR THE PRELIMINARY HEARING HEARING SHALL BE HELD WITHIN 20 WORKING DAYS OF RECEIPT OF THE COMPLAINT.
IF THE HEARING IS HELD BEYOND THAT DATE, ERC SHALL NOTIFY THE COMPLAINANT OF THE REASONS FOR THE DELAY AND SHALL SUBSEQUENTLY GIVE THE COMPLAINANT THE APPROPRIATE NOTIFICATION.
THAT'S CITING 2 41
THIS, SO THIS IS, UM, ONE THING THAT I NOTICED, UH, AS PART OF THE OLD WORKING GROUP, UM, IS THAT OUR RULES OF PROCEDURE HAVE INACCURATE CITATIONS SOMETIMES.
UM, DID, UH, DID A GOOD SCRUB OF THAT AT ONE POINT? UM, IT'S ACTUALLY UNDER, SO NOPE.
WHERE DID THIS IN THE CODE? GOOD QUESTION.
SO IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT OUR CITY CODE, THANKS FOR BEARING WITH ME.
IT'S TWO DASH SEVEN DASH 41 H ONE.
SO IT'S UNDER ACTUALLY TAB ONE BEHIND TAB ONE.
SO IT SAYS IF THE CHAIR DETERMINES THAT A COMPLAINT WITHIN THE COMMISSION IS WITHIN THE COMMISSION'S JURISDICTION, THE CHAIR SHALL SET THE COMPLAINT FOR A PRELIMINARY HEARING, NOT LATER THAN THE 60TH DAY AFTER THE CHAIR'S INITIAL DETERMINATION, UNLESS AGREED TO BY THE PARTIES OR BY A VOTE OF THE COMMISSION.
SO, AND THEN YOU HAVE 10 DAYS PRIOR TO THE MEETING, THE CHAIR HAS CAUSED TO SEND WRITTEN NOTICE OF THE DATE OF THE PRELIMINARY HEARING.
SO THERE'S 10 DAYS BETWEEN THE NOTICE AND THE HEARING.
SO IF THERE'S A JURISDICTIONAL DETERMINATION THAT'S MADE, UM, THEN, AND THE CHAIR DETERMINES, YES, THIS IS A VIOLATION AND IT'S IN OUR JURISDICTION, UH, NOTICES SENT AT NO LATER THAN 10 DAYS BEFORE THAT PRELIMINARY HEARING WOULD BE, UM, IT'S A SHORTER TIMELINE THAN I THOUGHT IT WAS TO BE COMPLETELY HONEST.
I THINK IT'S, I THINK IT'S WORTH TALKING ABOUT THAT TIMELINE AS WELL.
IF WE ARE GOING TO CHANGE, UH, THE SPECIFICITY WITH WHICH WE HAVE TO NAIL DOWN, WHAT'S IN THE FORM.
UM, I DO WANT TO KIND OF OPEN THE DISCUSSION THOUGH.
I REALLY DID LIKE THE SUGGESTION ABOUT MAYBE CHECKBOX.
A CHECKBOX OF SORTS THAT KIND OF HAS OUR JURISDICTION DESCRIBED BETTER THAN THE CURRENT FORM DOES BECAUSE OUR CURRENT FORM DOES HAVE, IT SAYS OUR COMMISSION'S JURISDICTION IS TO DASH TO CAMPAIGN FINANCE WITH NO FURTHER ELABORATION.
I LIKE TWO DASH SEVEN, THESE SUB CHAPTERS WITH NO FURTHER ELABORATION.
THERE IS A GREAT, UH, REMINDED ME OF A GREAT TWEET ABOUT HOW LIKE CITING CODE IS A HORRIBLE FOR COMMUNICATIONS.
UM, I'LL FIND IT AND SEND IT TO EVERYONE AT SOME POINT VIA LYNN TO NOT VIOLATE OPEN MEETINGS RULES.
UM, IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION OR THOUGHTS ON THAT ABOUT KIND OF HAVING, MAYBE OFFERING A CHECKBOX COMMISSIONER TEND TO YUCA? YES, GO AHEAD.
I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY THAT I REALLY LIKE THAT SUGGESTION AND I, I FEEL LIKE IT WOULD BE, UM, CHECK OFF SOME OF THE BOXES.
IT'S SOME OF THE OTHER CONCERNS OF NOT LISTING TO CODE, BUT IF WE COULD JUST HAVE LIKE AN OVERALL CODE WITH, YOU KNOW, TWO DASH TWO, AND THEN HAVE EVERYTHING THAT KIND OF FALLS UNDER THAT, I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GOOD COMPROMISE.
UM, AND THE SAME THING FOR THE OTHER ONES THAT TWO DASH SEVEN AND KIND OF EVERYTHING THAT FALLS UNDERNEATH THERE, THE SUBSECTIONS, LIKE I DON'T, I GUESS I JUST, I UNDERSTAND THE CONCERN, BUT I KIND OF FEEL LIKE AS LONG AS THEY HAVE SOME KIND OF CHECK BOX THAT SHOULD HELP WITH THAT, I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GREAT COMPROMISE.
AND YOU KNOW, ANOTHER THING, UM, THAT I'LL JUST ADD BRIEFLY IS THAT PART OF THE NOTICE IS THE COMPLAINT FORM ITSELF.
SO WHEN WE SEND NOTICE OF A PRELIMINARY HEARING ATTACHED TO THAT NOTICE IS A COPY OF THE COMPLAINT.
SO IT'S NOT AS THOUGH IT'S JUST THE NOTICE THAT SAYS, HEY, PRELIMINARY HEARING, THERE MIGHT BE A VIOLATION THAT'S ALLEGED, IT'S THE FULL COMPLAINT ITSELF.
UM, BUT COMMISSIONER STANTON, GO AHEAD.
IN THE INTEREST OF TIME HEARING, JUST TO KIND OF REGROUP AND MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE ON TASK.
[02:25:01]
I THINK WE'RE GETTING INTO THE DETAILS OF WHAT THE FORM COULD LOOK LIKE.AND I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT WE DEFER TO THE WORKING GROUP FOR THAT.
PERHAPS WE COULD USE THIS TIME DURING THE COMMISSION TO SOLICIT INPUT OR IDEAS OR SUGGESTIONS, BUT I DON'T BELIEVE THAT WE ARE READY TO VOTE ON ANYTHING REGARDING THE FORM.
SO IF COULD USE THIS TIME TO GET IDEAS, TAKE IT BACK TO THE WORK GROUP AND THE WORK GROUP RECOMMEND AN ACTUAL FORM AND WE GET PRINTOUTS OF WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE AND PROCEED THAT WAY.
THAT IS THE DIRECTION I WAS HEADED.
AND I APPRECIATE THE NUDGE COMMISSIONER STANTON.
UM, SO COMMISSIONER GREENBERG GUARDS.
I THINK THE INTENT TODAY WASN'T TO PASS A NEW FORM AND A NEW CODE, IT WAS TO SEE, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT THE WHOLE COMMISSION THINKS THAT THE WORKING GROUP SHOULD PROCEED TO WORK ON? SURE.
AND YEAH, THERE'S MORE OF A TEMPERATURE CHECK AS OPPOSED TO A RIGHT.
SO MAYBE I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT, UM, THE ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION ASKS THE WORKING GROUP TO CONTINUE TO WORK TOWARDS, UM, A WAY TO RESOLVE THE PROBLEM WITH THE, UM, IN INCORRECT CODES BEING LISTED ON THAT.
SO WE DON'T, I DON'T THINK WE ACTUALLY NEED EMOTION TO DO THAT.
UM, BUT IT'D BE HELPFUL TO KNOW THAT THERE'S EVEN SIX VOTES TO SUPPORT THAT IF THERE'S NOT, THEN I DON'T WANT TO WORK ON IT.
SO SECRETARY LEARNER AND THEN, UH, COMMISSIONER MCCORMICK, I THINK IF WE'RE GOING TO FRAME IT IN A WAY, I DO STILL THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO FRAME IT IN TERMS OF EQUITY, ACCESS AND INCLUSION, BECAUSE WE DO END UP EXCLUDING WITH A COMPLICATED AND COMPLEX PROCEDURE.
SO I THINK THAT WOULD BE NICE TO LINK IT TOGETHER AND THAT WOULD MAKE IT EVEN GERMANE TO THE COMBINED WORKING GROUP, I THINK, OR THE, OH, THERE'S TWO SEPARATE.
ANYWAY, I THINK IT'S A GOOD DIRECTION FOR OUR COMMISSION COMMISSIONER MCCORMICK.
I THINK WE NEED, WE COULD JUST SAY THERE'S A DIRECTIVE FROM THE COMMISSION TO THE WORKING GROUP TO CONTINUE.
THAT'S ANOTHER, WE DON'T NEED IT.
I THINK THE DIRECTION THAT I WAS GOING TO GO, I MEAN, IT SEEMS LIKE THERE'S, UH, I'VE WHAT I'VE GAUGED IS THAT A MAJORITY OF COMMISSIONERS RECOGNIZE THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM OF, UH, LIKE GOOD FAITH COMPLAINTS BEING DISMISSED ON TECHNICAL GROUNDS.
AND I THINK THAT WE'VE HEARD DIRECTED.
AND I THINK, I THINK THAT THE WORKING GROUP, UM, I MEAN ALL THE MEMBERS OF THE WORKING GROUP ARE HERE AND I THINK WE'VE HEARD SOME OF THE VERY VALID AND REALLY APPRECIATED COMPLAINT OR, UH, CONCERNS THAT HAVE BEEN RAISED ABOUT JUST SAYING, WRITE WHATEVER YOU WANT ON THE FORM THAT, ON THE SPECTRUM BETWEEN LIKE SPECIFY.
LIKE BE PRECISE WITH THE RIGHT CODE VIOLATION OR ELSE YOU'RE OUT AND WRITE WHATEVER YOU WANT ON THE COMPLAINT FORM ON THAT SPECTRUM.
I THINK WE'VE HEARD, YOU KNOW, KIND OF ENOUGH TO DIRECT SOME SUGGESTIONS FROM THE WORKING GROUP.
SO I THINK THAT THE WORKING GROUP CAN KIND OF CONTINUE AND MAYBE COME BACK WITH SOME CONCRETE PROPOSALS THAT MENU OF OPTIONS AND SEE WHAT THE COMMISSION WANTS TO DO WITH THAT COMMISSIONER.
I JUST, I WANT TO GIVE JUST ONE HISTORICAL BITTER PERSPECTIVE.
UM, AGAIN, UH, ONE OF THE COMPLAINTS WE HEARD ONE TIME WAS AGAINST A WOMAN WHO WAS THE SHERIFF OF TRAVIS COUNTY.
SHE WAS A MEMBER OF ALL THESE FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION GROUPS.
SHE WAS ASKED TO SPEAK ALL OVER THE COUNTRY ON, UH, YOU KNOW, ISSUES OF INAPPROPRIATE POLICING.
AND SHE MADE SOME REAL ENEMIES IN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT BECAUSE WHEN THE POLICE WOULD VIOLATE SOMEONE'S CIVIL LIBERTIES, IT WAS HER JOB TO DEAL WITH IT.
THAT'S A PRETTY TOUGH GROUP OF PEOPLE TO HAVE ON YOUR CASE, IF SHE WOULD HAVE HER DEFENSE ATTORNEY WAS ROY MET AND SHE WAS WELL-REPRESENTED BOB MINTON.
NO, NO IT'S I, NO, BUT IT WASN'T RIGHT.
IT WAS, I THOUGHT IT WAS PERRY JUST FOR THE RECORD, NOT RELEVANT, VERY RELEVANT.
IT WAS, UH, IT WAS, UH, HE, SHE HAD MAJOR DEFENSE BECAUSE IF SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN FOUND GUILTY OF THE TINIEST MISDEMEANOR AND SHE, YOU KNOW, SHE HAD DOCUMENTATION THAT SHE HAD MADE ARRANGEMENTS WHEN SHE TOOK THE JOB TO BE ABLE TO DO THESE SPEAKING ENGAGEMENTS OF HOW TO HANDLE THE CALLS IN AND ET CETERA, IF SHE HAD BEEN FOUND GUILTY OF THE TINIEST INFRACTION, SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN BLACKBALLED
[02:30:01]
FROM EVER HOLDING AN OFFICE LIKE THAT.AGAIN, IT'S THAT LEVEL OF BURDEN OF PROOF THAT WE HAVE TO BE CONSIDERATE UP FOR SOME PEOPLE IT'S RIGHT UP RIGHT.
NEXT TIME, PUT IT IN THE CONTRIBUTIONS, YOU'RE FIGURING OUT.
BUT FOR SOME PEOPLE REALLY THE DEFENSE, THEY HAVE TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE BEING CHARGED WITH.
AND THEY HAVE TO BE ABLE TO HAVE ALL THE RULES OF EVIDENCE SUPPORTED BECAUSE OTHERWISE THEY COULD BE ADMITTING THINGS IN THIS ROOM THAT COULD THEN, OR HAVING SOMEONE ADMIT SOMEBODY IN THIS ROOM THAT COULD GO ON TO REALLY RUIN THEIR LIVES.
BUT DO YOU THINK HAVING, LIKE, DO YOU THINK THAT, UM, HAVING TO GO IN AND CHECK THE SPECIFIC, THE SPECIFIC ALLEGED VIOLATION IS AS IMPORTANT AS THE FACTS BEING CLEARLY ESTABLISHED, UH, WHAT THE, WHAT YOU WERE SAYING ABOUT MAKING IT EASIER TO GO AHEAD AND MAKE AMENDMENTS DURING THE PROCESS RATHER THAN, I MEAN, WE, WE, THE CASE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, WE TOLD THE PERSON WE'RE DISMISSING IT, BUT IT CAN BE REFILED.
UM, SHE WAS TOLD THAT VERY CLEARLY, BUT IF IT WOULD BE GENTLER TO SAY, RATHER THAN DISMISSING THIS, WE WILL GIVE YOU X AMOUNT OF TIME TO AMEND IT, I THINK WOULD BE GENTLER AND GET TO WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO WITHOUT DENYING THE DEFENDANT.
THE NOTICE THAT THEY'RE REALLY ENTITLED TO.
UM, AND YOU KNOW, ONE THING, ONE THING THAT I'LL OFFER, AND THEN I'LL KIND OF MOVE US ON FROM THIS TO KIND OF CLOSE OUT OUR MEETING.
CAUSE IT'S BEEN A LITTLE LONGER THAN I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE.
AND THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR SPENDING THE TIME WITH US, UM, IS, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE THAT I THINK IS WORTH NOTING, WHICH IS COMPLAINTS THAT ARE FILED UNDER TWO DASH 70 ETHICS VIOLATIONS.
THOSE ARE TYPICALLY COMPLAINTS.
THOSE ARE TYPICALLY COMPLAINTS THAT ARE MADE ANONYMOUSLY AND THEN INVESTIGATED AND BROUGHT BY THE CITY AUDITOR'S OFFICE.
AND THEY DO HAVE THE RESOURCES WHEN THEY FILED THE COMPLAINT.
IT'S MORE LIKE COMPLAINT IS A MUSHY WORD.
SOMETIMES SOMEONE BRINGS AN ALLEGATION TO THE ATTENTION OF THE AUDITOR'S OFFICE AND THE AUDITOR'S OFFICE AS PROSECUTOR FILES A COMPLAINT.
AND THE AUDITOR'S OFFICE IS PERFECTLY RESOURCED TO A DAY.
IF ANYONE KNOWS THE CODE, IT'S GOING TO BE THEM, THEY WILL KNOW THE CODE THAT HAS BEEN ALLEGED TO HAVE BEEN VIOLATED AND BRING THE COMPLAINT.
THERE ARE OCCASIONS, I THINK, WHERE WE HAVE HAD CITIZENS BRING TWO DASH SEVEN COMPLAINTS ON THEIR OWN AND THEY CAN UNDER THE CODE, BUT MORE OFTEN THAN NOT THAT PROCESS, IF IT'S A CITY OFFICIAL OR A CITY EMPLOYEE, THAT'S UNDER OUR JURISDICTION, IT GOES TO THE CITY AUDITOR'S OFFICE AND THEY DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM PICKING OUT THE RIGHT CODE.
IT'S MORE OFTEN THAN NOT THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE CASES, RIGHT.
WHERE DOES A CITIZEN WHO SAYS, UH, I SAW THIS BILLBOARD AND I THINK THERE'S SOMETHING FISHY HERE.
I SAW THIS HAPPEN AND I THINK THERE'S SOMETHING FISHY.
UM, AND THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT DON'T HAVE KIND OF THE SAME TECHNICAL EXPERTISE POTENTIALLY AS THE CITY AUDITOR'S OFFICE, WHEN THEY'RE BRINGING TWO DASH SEVEN COMPLAINTS.
I MEAN, I'M NOT GONNA PICK AND CHOOSE WHICH, UH, CHAPTER OF THE CITY CODE IS MORE IMPORTANT TO DESK SEVEN OR DUDE AS DO.
UM, BUT, UH, IT'S ALL BEEN VERY, VERY GOOD FEEDBACK, I THINK FOR THE WORKING GROUP.
UM, IS THERE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THE COMPLAINT FORM IDEA? OTHERWISE I THINK THE WORKING GROUP HAS ENOUGH TO WORK ON.
IT'S BEEN A REALLY GOOD DISCUSSION.
[3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: APRIL 14, 2021, JUNE 9, 2021, and JULY 14, 2021 REGULAR COMMISSION MEETINGS]
SO MOVING ON, THEN WE'VE GOT ITEM NUMBER THREE APPROVAL OF MINUTES, UH, FOR THE RECORD, THE, UH, INCLUSION OF THE JUNE MEETINGS MINUTES, IT WAS AN ERROR.WE ACTUALLY APPROVED THOSE IN JULY.
SO WE'RE JUST LOOKING AT THE APRIL MINUTES, UH, WHICH ARE LEFTOVER AND THE JULY MINUTES.
DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY, UM, COMMENTS I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION, BUT WE DIDN'T.
THOSE, THERE WAS AN ERROR IN THOSE THAT THE, OUR APPROVAL OF THOSE MINUTES, DO WE HAVE COPIES OF THOSE MINUTES? THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN CIRCULATED VIA EMAIL.
UM, IT SEEMS TO ME, I WAS LOOKING FOR THEM AND I DON'T KNOW THAT WE GOT THEM, UM, UNTIL I THINK I WAS, I COULD BE WRONG.
I THINK I WAS LEAVING MY HOUSE WHEN I SAW THEM.
THE APRIL MINUTES, THE APRIL MINUTES CAME AT ABOUT 5:20 PM AND, UM, YEAH, I WAS ALREADY GONE.
[02:35:01]
YES.SO THE APRIL MINUTES, UH, CAME WEDNESDAY 5:17 PM.
UH, BUT THE JULY MINUTES CAME EARLIER TODAY.
EXCUSE ME, IF NOT, THEN I THINK IT'S PERFECTLY FINE.
WE CAN, WE CAN IMPROVE THEM AT OUR NEXT MEETING.
IF COMMISSIONERS ARE MORE COMFORTABLE TAKING THE TIME TO LOOK AT THEM, WE WILL POSTPONE AGENDA ITEM NUMBER THREE THEN.
[4. FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS AND ANNOUNCEMENTS]
ALL RIGHT.THEN NUMBER FOUR IS A FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS AND ANNOUNCEMENTS.
UM, I'M GOING TO OPEN THE FLOOR WHILE I PLUG IN MY LAPTOP BECAUSE I'M ABOUT TO LOSE MY SCRIPT.
UH, SO FLORES OPEN SECRETARY LEARNER.
SO WE HAVE THIS, UH, THIS ISSUE WITH OUR DATES ARE OUR MEETING DATES.
SO, UM, IN ORDER TO ACCOMMODATE THE HYBRID, AS YOU ALL SAW, WE ARE MOVED TO THE FOURTH WEDNESDAY, WHICH PRESENTS TWO PROBLEMS IN NOVEMBER AND DECEMBER.
UM, SO, UM, I THINK IT WOULD, I DON'T KNOW, WHAT CAN I ASK COMMISSIONER TENDON YUKON, ARE YOU, AND THIS NO JUDGMENT, JUST BASICALLY DETERMINING IF WE WILL NEED TO HAVE HYBRID OR IF WE ANTICIPATE THAT PEOPLE WILL ALL WANT TO BE IN-PERSON GOING FORWARD, IN WHICH CASE IF WE'RE, IF WE'RE ALL IN PERSON AND THIS IS NO PRESSURE EITHER WAY.
UM, IF, BUT IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE IF IT'S ALL IN PERSON, THEN WE CAN CHANGE THE DATES OR, UM, THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE THE FOURTH WEDNESDAY OF EVERY MONTH, BUT IF WE RETAIN A HYBRID, THEN WE DO HAVE TO DO THE FOURTH WEDNESDAY, AND THEN WE DO HAVE THE DAY BEFORE THANKSGIVING AND THE 23 DAYS BEFORE CHRISTMAS.
UM, CAN WE DO, UM, A HYBRID ON, UM, MOST OF THEM EXCEPT FOR NOVEMBER AND DECEMBER.
OH, WOULD THAT BE AN OPTION? UM, OH, DID WE TALK ABOUT, SO THE, SO ONE THING THAT WE CAN DO, UM, THAT I THINK I'LL LIKELY JUST BROADCAST TO OUR CITY FOLKS, UM, IS THAT WE CAN, UH, SO THIS IS A SPECIAL CALLED MEETING.
YOU MIGHT'VE NOTICED ON THE AGENDA.
IT IS A MEETING THAT WE, IT WAS NOT KIND OF PREVIOUSLY SCHEDULED ACCORDING TO OUR NORMAL CALENDAR.
UM, WE CAN INFORMALLY SOLICIT FROM COMMISSIONERS, UH, NEXT DATE IN OCTOBER AND NOVEMBER AND DECEMBER.
UM, AND TRY TO FIND TIMES THAT WORK POTENTIALLY.
UM, BUT, UH, YES, THE, THE COMPLICATION OF OUR HYBRID MODEL, UH, I THINK IT'S BECAUSE IT HAS TO HAPPEN IN THIS ROOM BASICALLY, UH, LEAVES US WITH THE FOURTH WEDNESDAY OF THE MONTH MOVING FORWARD FOR THIS YEAR.
UM, BUT IF WE DON'T WANT TO DO HYBRID MODEL FOR SOME OF THOSE, UH, MEETINGS, THEN WE CAN PLAY WITH OUR SCHEDULE A LITTLE BIT MORE COMMISSIONER GREENBERG.
I THOUGHT IT WAS MORE THAN JUST THE HYBRID ISSUE.
I THOUGHT IT WAS THAT WE ARE NOW ON VIDEO AND THE ROOM THAT WE HAD USED IN THE PAST ONLY HAD AUDIO RECORDING CAPABILITY.
AND SO THE REASON FOR CHANGING THE DATE WAS TO FIND A DATE WHERE A ROOM WAS AVAILABLE WITH VIDEO CAPABLE.
THAT IS THE HYBRID, BUT THAT'S BECAUSE WE'RE NOT, NO IT'S BECAUSE WE'VE ALSO DECIDED TO BE ON VIDEO.
OH, YOU MEAN FOR THE, FOR THE, UM, CITIZENS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, YOU DON'T MEAN JUST FOR OUR COMMISSIONERS, SO EVERYTHING GOTCHA.
SO A YEAR AGO WE WERE NOT BROADCAST.
SO I DON'T KNOW IF WE TOOK A VOTE EVER THAT I REMEMBER DISCUSSING IT A LOT.
AND I REMEMBER BEING LIKE ONE OF THE ADVOCATES FOR LIKE, WE SHOULD ALWAYS BE ON ATX THEN, BECAUSE THE PUBLIC SHOULD SEE WHAT WE DO.
UM, UH, I THINK THERE SHOULD BE CAMERAS IN THE COURTROOM.
UM, BUT, UH, SORRY, IT'S GETTING LATE.
UM, I KNOW THIS IS EARLY I ON A DAY.
UM, SO, UH, I DON'T THINK WE'VE TAKEN A VOTE THOUGH ON SPECIFICALLY DOING ATX N FOR ALL OF OUR MEETINGS, THE ISSUE AS I HAVE UNDERSTOOD IT FROM LYNN, IS THAT THE HYBRID MODEL, UM, LIKE THE, THE OTHER ROOM DOES NOT HAVE THE CAPACITY TO DO A ZOOM SLASH IN-PERSON OR VIDEO AT ALL.
UH, THERE IS, THERE'S A PROJECTOR IN THAT ROOM.
NO, I MEAN, ATX ON BROADCAST, RIGHT? NO, YOU CAN'T DO ATX ON BROADCAST IN THAT ROOM.
YOU COULD PROJECT A ZOOM MEETING.
UM, BUT RECORDING THE AUDIO FROM THAT, IT'S NOT TECHNICALLY EQUIPPED FOR THAT.
UM, I'M GETTING NODS FROM MEREDITH, UM, WHO IS ALSO, WHO'S SITTING IN
[02:40:01]
CITY LIAISON.I APPRECIATE IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD TO THAT, I'M HAPPY TO HEAR IT NOW.
SO CORRECT THAT WE'RE HERE BECAUSE OF THE HYBRID MODEL, NOT BECAUSE OF THE ATX AND BROADCAST CAPABILITY, UM, ROOM'S AVAILABLE THROUGHOUT THE CITY THAT WE COULD POSSIBLY LOOK INTO DOING HYBRID MEETINGS AT.
UM, WE WOULD JUST HAVE TO CONSULT WITH THE CLERK'S OFFICE TO GET, UM, A NEW UPDATED SCHEDULE BECAUSE THOSE, THOSE ROOMS HAVE ALREADY BOOKED UP WITH OTHER BOARDS, COMMISSIONS AS WELL.
SO THE BOOKING OF THAT HAS BEEN AN ISSUE BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE WANT TO DO HYBRID.
SO I THINK, UM, BECAUSE WE'RE ON FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS, I THINK WHAT WE CAN SAY IS THAT, UH, CITY, CITY STAFF AND THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, THEY'VE GOT A DIRECTION AND UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY'LL CONSULT WITH US AS WE FIGURE OUT NEXT MONTH'S MEETING, WHETHER OR NOT IT WILL ACTUALLY BE ON THE 27TH.
WE'RE NOT ACTUALLY TAKING A VOTE ON WHETHER OR NOT THE NEXT MEETING IS ON THE 27TH.
UM, AND THEN A FUTURE AGENDA ITEM IN OUR OCTOBER MEETING WILL BE HOW WE'RE GOING TO FIGURE OUT NOVEMBER, DECEMBER AND MEETINGS MOVING FORWARD.
ANY OTHER FUTURE AGENDA COMMISSIONER STANDING? YES.
I WOULD LIKE FOR US TO CONSIDER ADDING TO, UH, PIECES OF DATA OR INFORMATION TO OUR AGENDA, THAT WOULD BE THE SCOPE OR THE CODE THAT IS WITHIN JURISDICTION FOR OUR COMMISSION AND ADDING THE DISTRICT THAT EACH COMMISSION MEMBER REPRESENTS YOU MEAN TO INCLUDE ON THE AGENDA ITSELF, CORRECT.
SO THAT MY INTENT IS THAT IT BE A STANDALONE ITEM.
YOU KNOW, A PERSON, YOU KNOW, FROM THE PUBLIC CAN LOOK AT THE AGENDA AND UNDERSTAND, OKAY, HERE ARE THE COMMISSIONS, OH, HERE ARE THE DISTRICTS THAT ARE REPRESENTED.
AND TO WHAT, WHAT ARE, WHAT ARE THE CODES THAT SINCE, SINCE OUR WORK IS VERY SPECIFIC, I DON'T THINK IT WOULD ADD THAT MUCH MORE ROOM, BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT INFORMATION.
I THINK IT'S, I THINK THAT'S A DISCUSSION BETTER HAD AS A FULL AGENDIZED ITEMS. SO I THINK WE CAN CERTAINLY INCLUDE THAT ON AS PART OF OUR DISCUSSION IN OCTOBER AS TO WHAT, WHAT IS ON OUR AGENDA MOVING FORWARD, BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S SOME, THERE'S SOME CONCERNS, THERE'S SOME THOUGHTS AND CONCERNS THAT I THINK MAY BE RAISED ABOUT HOW IT'S PRESENTED ON AN AGENDA.
UM, BUT I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA AND I WOULD LOVE TO DISCUSS IT.
IT TAKES TWO COMMISSIONERS, UH, IN A MEETING TO LIKE, SAY, THIS IS GOING TO GO ON THE NEXT AGENDA.
ANY OTHER FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS, ANNOUNCEMENTS, UM, THINGS LIKE THAT.
HOW IS THERE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR CURRENT COMMISSIONERS TO RECOMMEND SOMEONE TO FILL A VACANCY AND UNDERSTAND WE HAVE A VACANCY, UH, LEFT BY, UM, OUR PREVIOUS VICE CHAIR? IS THERE A MECHANISM OR PROCESS BY WHICH WE COULD DO? SO IF NO FORMAL MECHANISM, UM, IT'S UP TO THE COUNCIL MEMBER.
SO COULD WE RECOMMEND TO YOU? SURE.
THERE'S YOU WERE ALWAYS ENTITLED TO COMMUNICATE WITH COUNCIL MEMBERS, UM, ON YOUR OWN.
UH THERE'S I DON'T THINK THERE ARE ANY PROHIBITIONS OR SPECIFIC RULES OR CONSIDERATIONS BEFORE YOU, IF YOU THOUGHT THAT THERE WAS SOMEONE THAT WOULD BE JUST SO PERFECT FOR THE COMMISSION, YOU CAN ALWAYS REACH OUT TO THAT COUNCIL MEMBER ON YOUR OWN.
IT'S A JOKE QUESTION YOU'RE ASKING.
IF THERE ARE NO OTHER FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS I'M SEEING YES.
THEN THE ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION WILL BE ADJOURNED.
STILL THE TIME IS 9:00 PM ON THE DOT.
THERE WAS A MEETING ON THE 29TH.