* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.
          [00:00:04]
          ALL RIGHT, 
          [CALL MEETING TO ORDER]
EVERYBODY, IF YOU WILL GO AHEAD AND TAKE YOUR SEATS. 
          WE'RE GOING TO GO AHEAD AND BEGIN AS WE HAVE A QUORUM. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          UH, FOR THE RECORD, UH, PRESENT IN PERSON, WE HAVE COMMISSIONER STONE, COMMISSIONER AND GORY COMMISSIONER HARMON, MR. BLACKBURN, COMMISSIONER WHITE AND COMMISSIONER CHEVERIA AND VIRTUALLY WE HAVE COMMISSIONER DAVIS. 
          UH, SO LET'S, I WILL CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER, UH, FIRST UP CITIZEN 
          [CITIZEN COMMUNICATION: GENERAL]
COMMUNICATION. 
          UH, WE HAVE THREE CITIZENS SIGNED UP, UH, TWO OF WHICH HAVE DONATED THEIR TIME TO PAUL ROBBINS. 
          SO PAUL, YOU HAVE NINE MINUTES AND THE FLOOR IS YOURS COMMISSION. 
          I'M PAUL ROBBINS. 
          I'VE BEEN AN ENVIRONMENTAL ACTIVIST AND CONSUMER ADVOCATE SINCE 1977. 
          I WANT TO THANK MY FRIENDS, GAIL. 
          BORST A GREEN ARCHITECT AND MELANIE MCAFEE MANAGER OF THE BAR MANSION EVENT CENTER FOR DONATING THEIR TIME TO ME. 
          SLIDE SLIDE. 
          UM, W WON'T GET AN ANSWER POLL. 
          THANK YOU. 
          I COULD DO HAND PUPPETS. 
          UM, I'M INDISPOSED. 
          IF THIS GOES ON ANOTHER COUPLE MINUTES, WE'LL JUST, UM, TRY TO WING IT WITHOUT THE PRESENTATION. 
          THERE'S A SLIDESHOW OPTION ON THE MENU BAR IN THE MIDDLE. 
          ARE WE GOOD? JUST A SECOND. 
          PAUL, LET ME GET THE, GO AHEAD. 
          [00:05:07]
ALL RIGHT, NATASHA. 
          WE GOOD? ALRIGHT, GO AHEAD. 
          OKAY. 
          I'M HERE REGARDING THE GREENWASHED ENERGY CONSERVATION PROGRAMS RUN BY TEXAS GAS SERVICE. 
          THE COMPANY IS MISSPENDING AS MUCH AS $1.8 MILLION A YEAR. 
          THAT SHOULD EITHER BE REIMBURSED TO RATE PAYERS OR SPENT FOR MORE USEFUL PURPOSES, SUCH AS CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE TO THE POOR OR RESEARCH ON RENEWABLE ENERGY SLIDE, THREE CONSERVATION PROGRAMS. IF YOU CAN CALL THEM THAT ARE IN QUESTION HERE, THEY INCLUDE REBATES FOR TANKLESS WATER HEATERS, CENTRAL FURNACES AND CLOTHES DRYERS. 
          THIS EQUIPMENT WILL NEVER PAY FOR ITSELF IN ENERGY SAVINGS OVER LIFE OF THE APPLIANCES. 
          UH, THE WASTED MONEY AMOUNTS TO AS MUCH AS $1.8 MILLION A YEAR OR $5.5 MILLION OVER THE COURSE OF THREE YEARS, SLIDE TANKLESS, WATER HEATER REBATES WASTE OVER HALF OF THIS MONEY. 
          THEIR COMBUSTION IS MORE EFFICIENT AND THEY DO NOT LOSE HEAT THROUGH STORAGE TANK WALLS LIKE CONVENTIONAL UNITS. 
          DO THESE MIGHT BE A GOOD INVESTMENT IN COMMERCIAL SETTING LIKE A LAUNDROMAT OR AN ALL-NIGHT RESTAURANT IN LOW TRAFFIC, RESIDENTIAL SETTINGS. 
          THEY ARE A HORRIBLY BAD INVESTMENT CONSULTANTS FOR BOTH TEXAS GAS SERVICE AND THE CITY CLAIM. 
          THESE UNITS HAVE MINIMAL COSTS, UH, COST PREMIUMS, WHICH ARE LESSENED EVEN FURTHER, UH, BY THEIR SUPPOSEDLY LONGER LIFE. 
          BUT NEITHER CONSULTANT APPEARS TO HAVE LOOKED AT WHAT THE REAL COSTS ACTUALLY ARE. 
          I WENT TO EXTRAORDINARY LENGTHS TO REVIEW RECEIPTS SPENDING AT LEAST THREE DAYS OF UNPAID TIME. 
          I FOUND THAT THE AVERAGE COST OF A RETROFIT UNIT WAS ABOUT $5,000. 
          ANOTHER THING ABOUT THESE IS THAT THEY REQUIRE PERIODIC SCALE CLEANING, UH, TO MAINTAIN THEIR EFFICIENCY. 
          THE MOST RECENT ENERGY INFORMATION ADMINISTRATION OR REPORT ON RESIDENTIAL APPLIANCE COSTS ACTUALLY INCLUDES THIS IN ITS ECONOMIC DATA. 
          A GAS UTILITY RESEARCH GROUP ACTUALLY UNDERTOOK A PROJECT TO ADDRESS THE SCALE PROBLEM SLIDE. 
          AND THIS EQUIPMENT IS SUSCEPTIBLE TO FREEZE DAMAGE. 
          IN MY REVIEW, I FOUND 116 UNITS OVER HALF OF THOSE THAT I REVIEWED WERE DAMAGED BY WINTER STORM URI. 
          THIS PLACES, THE CLAIM OF INCREASED UNIT LIFETIME IN DOUBT, ALSO CONSIDER THAT THESE 116 TANKLESS UNITS ACHIEVE LITTLE OR NO SAVINGS WHILE MINIMAL SAVINGS CAN BE ACHIEVED BY REPLACING A CONVENTIONAL STORAGE TANK UNIT WITH A TANKLESS UNIT, LITTLE OR NO SAVINGS WILL BE ACHIEVED BY REPLACING A TANKLESS UNIT WITH ANOTHER TANKLESS UNIT. 
          THIS IS SUCH AN EGREGIOUS WASTE OF RATE PAYER MONEY THAT I REQUESTED THE CITY'S REGULATORY OFFICE TO CONDUCT AN IMPRUDENCE INVESTIGATION TO GET $89,000 IN RATE PAYER MONEY REIMBURSED BY THE GAS COMPANY. 
          THIS INVESTIGATION HAS NOT OCCURRED. 
          SLIDE NOW MOVING TO GAS, CLOTHES DRYERS. 
          THIS IS PERHAPS THE MOST CREATIVE USE OF GREENWASHING. 
          I HAVE EVER SEEN. 
          TEXAS GAS SERVICE WILL GIVE RATE PAYERS AS MUCH AS $325 TO REPLACE A GAS CLOTHES DRYER WITH ANOTHER GAS CLOTHES DRYER. 
          THE CONSERVATION DEVICE REQUIRED A MOISTURE SENSOR WILL SAVE ABOUT A DOLLAR 31 CENTS A YEAR. 
          THIS IS A PAYBACK OF ABOUT 248 YEARS FOR AN APPLIANCE THAT LASTS 13 YEARS SLIDE. 
          AND THEN THERE ARE CENTRAL FURNACES. 
          THIS EQUIPMENT IS MORE THAN 92% EFFICIENT COMPARED TO A BASE EFFICIENCY OF ABOUT 80%. 
          THIS COMES HOWEVER, AT A STEEP PREMIUM, THESE UNITS MIGHT PAY FOR THEMSELVES IN COLD WINTER CLIMATES LIKE MINNEAPOLIS OR THE YUKON 
          [00:10:01]
MOUNTAIN RANGE, BUT NOT IN THE SOUTHERN UNITED STATES. 
          I WANT TO ALSO BRIEFLY SPEAK TO THE ISSUE OF RENEWABLE ENERGY SLIDE. 
          UM, COULD YOU, UH, GO SLIDE FURTHER. 
          I WANT TO BRIEFLY SPEAK TO THE ISSUE OF RENEWABLE ENERGY, TEXAS GAS SERVICE RELEASED A REPORT IN 2020. 
          I'M SURE MOST OF YOU HAVE GLANCED AT IT. 
          UH, AND IT TALKED ABOUT THE POTENTIAL OF RENEWABLE NATURAL GAS. 
          I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO READ THE WHOLE THING AND FOUND IT LACKING IT'S SUBSTANCE. 
          IT IS LARGELY IMPRACTICAL GIVEN THE LIMITED AVAILABILITY AND EXTREMELY HIGH COSTS OF BIOGENIC GAS AT WORST. 
          IT IS A DELAYING TACTIC TO AVOID MORE SUBSTANTIAL ACTION SLIDE. 
          UH, I BELIEVE THAT RESEARCH IN SOLAR FUELS THAT DIRECTLY USE SOLAR ENERGY OR THAT MAKE USE OF HYDROGEN AND METHANE PRODUCED WITH RENEWABLE ENERGY MAY BE A MORE LONG MAY BE OF MORE LONG-TERM VALUE. 
          UH, NOW, WOULD YOU GO BACK TWO SLIDES PLEASE, NATASHA. 
          UH, I WANT TO TURN TO HOW YOUR COMMISSION WAS TREATED THIS FALL. 
          YOU WERE PREVENTED FROM GOING ON RECORD ABOUT THIS RECKLESS SPENDING IN SEPTEMBER THE CONSERVATION ADJUSTMENT CLAUSE, CLEARLY STATES QUOTE, THE COMMISSION WILL REVIEW THE PROGRAM SELECTION IN BUDGET, PROVIDE INPUT AND MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE CITY OF HOWEVER, THE REGULATORY OFFICE OF THE CITY DID NOT POST THIS FOR A VOTE ONLY DISCUSSION. 
          THIS MANIPULATION IS A VIOLATION OF THE TARIFF. 
          YOUR COMMISSION AS A BODY CANNOT MAKE A RECOMMENDATION. 
          IF IT DOES NOT VOTE, IT IS PRETTY CLEAR. 
          AND THIS WAS NOT JUST AN OVERSIGHT. 
          I CONTACTED THE REGULATORY OFFICE PERSONALLY, BEFORE THIS MEETING AND INFORMED THEM OF THE ERROR AND NO CORRECTIVE ACTION WAS TAKEN. 
          UM, WOULD YOU, UH, GO BACK, GO FORWARD AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UH, SO I'M PROPOSING SOMETHING DIFFERENT. 
          LET'S TAKE THE WASTED CONSERVATION MONEY MEANT FOR GREENWASHED MARKETING AND IMPLEMENT A PLAN TO HELP THE POOR ON THEIR BILL. 
          LET'S TAKE THE MONEY MEANT FOR THINGS LIKE DRYERS WITH A 248 YEAR PAYBACK AND FUND PRAGMATIC, RENEWABLE RESEARCH. 
          LET'S TAKE THE WASTED MONEY AND GIVE SOME OF IT BACK TO THE RATE PAYERS WHO ARE ALREADY REELING FROM TEXAS GAS SERVICE RATE INCREASES. 
          THEY'VE ALREADY GONE UP ABOUT 25% IN THE LAST TWO YEARS. 
          YOU HAVE TWO RESOLUTIONS ON THIS TONIGHT, THE FIRST, WHICH SPEAKS TO COST EFFECTIVENESS OF ALL THESE CONSERVATION PROGRAMS WILL HOPEFULLY RECTIFY PAST PROBLEMS, SUCH AS BENEFIT COST ANALYSES THAT ARE GAMED AND THREE YEAR TARIFFS, WHICH ARE NOT REVIEWED REGULARLY. 
          I SUGGEST YOU UPDATE THE LANGUAGE TO READ FOR THE YEAR 2023. 
          UH, SO WE CAN HOPEFULLY GET CITY COUNCIL TO ACT ON THIS NEXT YEAR, BEFORE EVEN MORE MONEY GETS WASTED. 
          THE SECOND RESOLUTION SPEAKS TO ESTABLISHMENT OF A COMMUNITY BENEFIT FUND AT THE GAS COMPANY THAT WILL FUND LEGITIMATE ENERGY CONSERVATION PROGRAMS ASSISTANCE TO THE POOR AND RENEWABLE ENERGY RESEARCH. 
          IT WILL ALLOW WE PURPOSING OF THESE WASTED CONSERVATION FUNDS. 
          I URGE PASSAGE OF BOTH. 
          LET'S GET COUNCIL TO STOP THIS GREENWASHING ONCE AND FOR ALL NEXT YEAR AND DO SOMETHING USEFUL WITH THE MONEY. 
          I APPRECIATE YOUR ATTENTION. 
          THANK YOU VERY MUCH, PAUL. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          UH, BEFORE WE JUMP INTO THE AGENDA, JUST A QUICK NOTE, I BELIEVE EVERYONE'S HAS SIGNED IN. 
          REMEMBER, UH, WHEN YOU'RE SPEAKING, EVERYONE HAS A MIC, UH, PRESS THE BUTTON ON THE RIGHT WILL TURN RED, UH, WHICH MEANS THAT YOUR MIC IS LIVE. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          UH, FIRST UP 
          [APPROVAL OF MINUTES]
ITEMS WANTED TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF THE AUGUST 17TH MINUTE MEETING, AS WELL AS THE, UH, SEPTEMBER 21ST MEETING, UH, COMMISSIONERS. 
          YOU SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED, UH, BOTH OF THESE DOCUMENTS IN THE, UH, PACKET THAT WAS SENT OUT PREVIOUSLY. 
          DID ANYONE HAVE ANY CORRECTIONS TO THOSE? 
          [00:15:02]
ALL RIGHT. 
          HEARING NONE. 
          THE MINUTES ARE APPROVED. 
          WE WILL MOVE ON 
          [3. Generation Portfolio Announcement Briefing]
TO ITEM NUMBER THREE GENERATION PORTFOLIO ANNOUNCEMENT BRIEFING. 
          I BELIEVE WE HAD PAT SWEENEY FROM AUSTIN ENERGY. 
          UH, I'M SORRY. 
          I DIDN'T REALIZE WE WERE TAKING A VOTE THERE. 
          IS THAT WHAT WE'RE DOING ON? UM, IF THERE ARE NO CORRECTIONS, THEN THE MINUTES ARE APPROVED. 
          UH, THIS PROCEDURE WAS, UH, SO WE HAD A PARLIAMENTARY TRAINING ABOUT A MONTH AGO OF WHICH YOU WERE INVITED TO ATTEND. 
          RIGHT? SO THIS PROCEDURE WAS, UH, WHAT THE CITY CLERK'S OFFICE HAS NOW GIVEN US FOR ADOPTION OF, UH, ADMINISTRATIVE ITEMS, SUCH AS THE MINUTES. 
          OKAY. 
          SO IT'S BASICALLY LIKE A CONSENT AGENDA. 
          IS THAT, UH, THAT'S CORRECT. 
          OKAY. 
          THEN I WOULD LIKE TO BE SHOWN VOTING. 
          NO REPEAT THAT. 
          I WANT TO BE SHOWN VOTING. 
          NO, ON THAT ITEM. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          UH, PAT, ARE YOU READY? YES. 
          YOU BET YOU WHERE'S YOURS A GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS. 
          MY NAME IS PAT SWEENEY. 
          I'M VICE-PRESIDENT FOR POWER PRODUCTION FOR AUSTIN ENERGY. 
          UM, UH, I'M HERE TO GIVE YOU AN UPDATE, UH, ON AN ANNOUNCEMENT THAT WE MADE BACK ON NOVEMBER 1ST REGARDING OUR GENERATION PORTFOLIO. 
          UH, THERE WERE THREE THINGS THAT WERE INCLUDED IN THAT ANNOUNCEMENT ARE, ARE THE STATUS OF OUR NEGOTIATIONS REGARDING THE FAYETTE RETIREMENT, THE RETIREMENT OF OUR DECKER TWO STEAM UNIT AND THE NACADOCIOUS BIOMASS PLANT. 
          UM, WE CAN GO TO GOING ADVANCE TWO SLIDES, I GUESS. 
          OH, THERE WE GO. 
          UM, SO RELATIVE TO FAYETTE, UM, UH, AND, AND FOR SOME BACKGROUND, MAKE SURE EVERYONE'S ON THE SAME PAGE. 
          UH, AUSTIN ENERGY CO OWNS THE FAYETTE POWER PROJECT OR FPP WITH LCRA. 
          WE, WE OWN 50% OF UNITS, ONE AND TWO. 
          THERE ARE THREE UNITS. 
          AUSTRALIA OWNS THE ENTIRETY OF UNIT THREE. 
          UH, LCRA IS THE PROJECT MANAGER. 
          SO THEY MANAGE THE FACILITY. 
          UH, THERE'S A JOINT OWNERSHIP AGREEMENT THAT GOVERNS THE OPERATION OF THE FACILITY. 
          AND IT DOES NOT SET OUT HOW ONE PARTY CAN RETIRE ONLY ITS SHARE OF THE PROJECT. 
          SO AS A RESULT, UH, WE ENTERED INTO NEGOTIATIONS WITH LCRA RELATIVE TO OUR GOAL OF EXITING, ACTUALLY RE RETIRING OUR SHARE OF THE FAYETTE POWER PROJECT, UH, AT, AND WE MADE THIS ANNOUNCEMENT BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN UNABLE TO REACH TERMS THAT, UH, WOULD ALLOW US TO SHUT IT DOWN. 
          AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, THOSE TERMS NEED TO BE MUTUALLY AGREEABLE BECAUSE OF THE PARTNERSHIP. 
          UH, THE COUNSEL WAS FULLY BRIEFED, UH, THROUGHOUT THIS PROCESS, UH, IT BECAME NECESSARY GIVEN THE TIMEFRAME AND THE IMPASSE. 
          WE REACHED THAT, UH, WE MAKE THIS ANNOUNCEMENT NOW, UH, IN THAT WE WILL BE PLANNING OUR BUDGET AT THE BEGINNING OF NEXT YEAR. 
          AND THAT BUDGET FOR THE FOLLOWING YEAR WILL SPAN INTO THAT PERIOD THAT THE UNIT WOULD, THOSE UNITS WOULD HAVE OTHERWISE RETIRED. 
          SO WE HAVE TO MAKE A BUDGET DECISIONS THAT REFLECT THAT REALITY, UM, GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE. 
          SO WHAT'S NEXT RELATIVE TO FAYETTE. 
          UH, WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO RUN OUR PORTION, UH, BUT WE WILL MINIMIZE A SCHEDULED OUTPUT USING OUR REACH, UH, PROGRAM. 
          AND, UH, THAT PROGRAM, AS YOU KNOW, HAS BEEN UNDERWAY FOR ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF NOW, IT'S BEEN PRETTY SUCCESSFUL AND WE AIM TO IMPROVE ON THAT SUCCESS, UH, THROUGH ADDITIONAL USE OF REACH THAT STRATEGY CONSIDERS A COST OF CARBON AND THE UTILITIES OFFER TO SELL THE GENERATION FROM FAYETTE. 
          IN OTHER WORDS, WE PUT A PRICE ADDER THAT REDUCES THE CALLING OF THE UNIT GOING UP OR THE UNITS. 
          AND, UH, THE THIRD BULLET IS ALSO PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT THAT WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO NEGOTIATE WITH LCRA, UH, REGARDING, UH, RETIREMENT, UH, THE DOORS, THE DOORS OPEN REMAINS OPEN. 
          WE STILL HAVE OUR GOALS AND WE STILL AIM TO ACHIEVE THOSE GOALS. 
          UH, BUT AGAIN, WE HAD TO REFLECT REALITY WHERE WE ARE NOW AS WE MOVE INTO A BUDGET SEASON COMING UP HERE IN JUST A FEW MONTHS, THAT WOULD ENCOMPASS THAT, THAT PERIOD THAT THE, UH, WAS PLANNED FOR THE RETIREMENT. 
          UM, SO, UH, ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS I WOULD POINT OUT IS THESE UNITS ARE, UH, 42 YEARS OLD AND 40, 41 AND 42 YEARS OLD RESPECTABLY. 
          THEY'RE NOT GETTING ANY YOUNGER LIKE ME. 
          UH, SO THERE'S A, THERE'S A FUTURE. 
          UH, THEIR FUTURE OPERATION IS GOING TO ALSO BE HIGHLY DEPENDENT UPON THEIR VIABILITY GOING FORWARD, UH, BOTH ECONOMICALLY AND BY AGE. 
          UH, SO THAT'S SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND. 
          WE'LL GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE. 
          UH, SO THE OTHER ONE, THE OTHER ELEMENTS OF OUR ANNOUNCEMENT WAS THE RETIREMENT OF DECKER STEAM UNIT TWO. 
          THIS HAS BEEN A LONGSTANDING 
          [00:20:01]
PLAN, UH, TO RETIRE THIS UNIT. 
          BY THE END OF THIS YEAR, WE RETIRED DECKER STEAM UNIT ONE AT THE END OF LAST YEAR AS PER OUR RESOURCE PLAN, WE OPTED TO EXTEND THE OPERATION OF THAT UNIT FOR THREE MORE MONTHS INTO 2022, SO THAT WE ARE NOW PLANNING TO RETIRE AT, IN MARCH, MARCH 31ST OF NEXT YEAR. 
          AND THAT'S REFLECTIVE OF THE, WHAT HAPPENED IN FEBRUARY AND THE CURRENT STATE OF AFFAIRS IN THE ERCOT MARKET. 
          SO WE FELT IT WAS PRUDENT FOR US TO JEANNE TO MAKE THAT UNIT AVAILABLE FOR THOSE THREE MONTHS TO COVER THIS UPCOMING WINTER. 
          IT WAS A PRETTY EASY EXERCISE TO JUST EXTEND THE OPERATION A BIT. 
          BUT OVERALL THAT UNIT ALONG WITH IT'S A SISTER UNIT THAT ARE RETIRED REFLECTS MUCH, LIKE I MENTIONED ON FAYETTE, THE AGE OF THE, THESE UNITS ARE ABOUT ROUGHLY ABOUT 10 YEARS OLDER, GENERALLY SPEAKING IN THE FA UNITS, UH, THEY'RE LOWER, EFFICIENT THAN A NEWER MORE MODERN, NATURAL GAS UNITS, LIKE OUR COMBINED CYCLE UNIT AT THE SANDHILL FACILITY. 
          UH, AND THEY HAVE, UH, AND, AND ULTIMATELY WHEN WE SHUT THEM DOWN, WE WILL HAVE LOWER CARBON EMISSIONS AS A RESULT. 
          NEXT SLIDE, I'VE COVERED A LITTLE BIT OF THIS, BUT SOME PARTICULARS ABOUT HOW THAT WORKS IN ERCOT. 
          UH, WHAT WE DID WAS WE SUBMITTED WHAT'S CALLED A NOTICE OF SUSPENSION OF OPERATION OR AN NSO, UH, THAT IS REQUIRED TO BE DONE 150 DAYS BEFORE YOUR INTENDED RETIREMENT DATE OF A GENERATOR AND THAT'S FOR ALL MARKET PARTICIPANTS. 
          SO WE, EVERYONE HAS TO FOLLOW THE SAME PROCESS. 
          AGAIN, THE EFFECTIVE DATE THAT WE SUBMITTED IS FOR MARCH 31ST, 2022, UH, AND IN THIS PROCESS, ERCOT DETERMINES WHETHER A UNIT IS NEEDED TO CONTINUE, UH, NEEDS TO CONTINUE OPERATING, TO MAINTAIN RELIABILITY OF THE SYSTEM. 
          UH, IF IT MAKES THAT DETERMINATION, IT CAN ENGAGE THE ONGOING OPERATION THAT UNIT THROUGH WHAT'S CALLED A RELIABILITY LIABILITY, MUST RUN COMMITMENT OR CONTRACT, UH, WHEREBY THEY COMPENSATE THE GENERATOR OWNER FOR THE ONGOING OPERATION, THAT UNIT, UH, THOSE, THOSE ARE PRETTY FEW AND FAR BETWEEN THEY'VE NOT REALLY BEEN ANY IN RECENT TIMES, UH, AND THAT THOSE ARE INTENDED TO BE, UH, INTERIM AGREEMENTS USUALLY UNTIL THE REQUIRED TRANSMISSION IMPROVEMENTS CAN BE MADE IN THOSE ONCE THOSE IMPROVEMENTS WERE MADE THAN THE UNITS ALLOWED TO BE RETIRED, DON'T HAVE ANY INDICATION THAT THIS WILL BE AN ISSUE, BUT, BUT IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE THE APPROVAL OF ERCOT AS, AS WHAT ANYONE TO RETIRE UNIT. 
          AND SO, UH, WE HAVE NOT HEARD YET ON THAT, UH, THAT THEY HAVE UP TO THAT FULL 150 DAYS TO DO THAT. 
          ALTHOUGH WE WOULD EXPECT SOME TIME MAYBE MIDWAY THROUGH THAT A WINDOW OF TIME TO HEAR, UH, AND CONFIRM THE ABILITY TO CLOSE AS WE INTEND THAT UNIT, UH, BEYOND THAT AT DECKER, UH, THERE ARE FOUR, UH, GAS TURBINES THAT ARE THERE FOR FOUR 50 MEGAWATT TURBINES, THEY'RE PEAKER UNITS, QUICK-START UNITS. 
          WE ONLY TURN THEM ON AND THEN TURN THEM OFF WHEN THEY'RE NEEDED. 
          UM, AND SO THEY CAN, THEY CAN BE DISPATCHED QUICKLY, RESPOND QUICKLY TO PRICE, UH, CHANGES IN DEMAND CHANGES RAPIDLY. 
          SO THEY WILL CONTINUE TO REMAIN AN OPERATION. 
          THERE'S NOT YET A SHUTDOWN DATA STABLISH FOR THEM. 
          NEXT, NEXT SLIDE. 
          UH, THE LAST ITEM WE WANTED TO MENTION WAS THE NACADOCIOUS BIOMASS PLANT, UH, WILL BE AVAILABLE THROUGHOUT THE YEAR, COMING UP HERE PREVIOUSLY. 
          UH, WE HAD, UH, AS YOU MAY KNOW, THAT'S A WOOD WASTE PLANT, UH, UP IN THE NORTHEAST PART OF TEXAS, UH, HEAVILY, UH, FORCED IT, IF YOU HAVEN'T BEEN IN THAT AREA WITH A LARGE FORCE INDUSTRY, UH, WE PREVIOUSLY HAD IT UNDER WHAT'S CALLED A SEASONAL MOTH BALL, MEANING WAS, UH, MADE AVAILABLE TO RUN DURING THE HIGH ENERGY DEMAND OR HIGHER PRICE MONTHS, NAMELY THE SUMMER. 
          UH, AND THAT JUST REFLECTED THE ECONOMIC REALITY THAT IT WAS BEST SUITED FROM ITS PRICE POINT TO RUN DURING THOSE PERIODS AND NOT COST US EXTRA MONEY. 
          UH, YOU MAY RECALL THAT WE PURCHASED THIS PLANT, UH, FROM UNDER A PURCHASE POWER AGREEMENT THAT HAD BEEN OUTSTANDING WITH SOUTHERN COMPANY, UH, THAT PURCHASE, UH, BUYING THAT DOWN, SO TO SPEAK, UH, SAVED US ABOUT 275 MILLION OVER WHAT WOULD HAVE, WOULD HAVE OTHERWISE BEEN THE LIFE OF THAT PPA? UH, ONE OF THE ADVANTAGES OF OWNING THE UNIT IS WE HAVE FULL CONTROL OVER ITS OPERATION, AND WE'RE NOT SUBJECT TO SOME LIMITATIONS THAT WE HAD ON THE PPA. 
          AND SO, FOR EXAMPLE, WE'VE MADE SOME OPERATIONAL IMPROVEMENTS THAT WE CAN GET THE UNIT ON A BIT QUICKER THAN, THAN WOULD HAVE OTHERWISE BEEN THE CASE IN THE PAST. 
          PLUS THE MARKET CONDITIONS ARE SUPPORTING ITS ONGOING OPERATIONS. 
          THAT RE THAT'S A REFLECTION OF THE HIGH, NATURAL GAS PRICES THAT ARE PERSISTING, UH, CURRENTLY AND OUT IN THE NEXT YEAR THAT MAKE THE UNIT VIABLE, HAVE MADE IT VIABLE. 
          IT'S BEEN ONLINE QUITE A BIT SINCE LAST, UH, LAST SUMMER WHEN IT CAME ON, UM, AND, AND, AND IS EXPECTED TO CONTINUE TO BE ON AND AVAILABLE THROUGHOUT THE NEXT YEAR OF NEXT LINE. 
          SO AS WE LOOK FORWARD, UH, OUR CURRENT AUSTIN ENERGY GENERATION PORTFOLIO, WE'RE 66% CARBON FREE, UH, VERSUS 
          [00:25:01]
34%, UM, UH, CONVENTIONAL POWER ON OUR, ON OUR GENERATING CAPACITY. 
          AND IF YOU LOOK TO THE RIGHT, UH, AFTER MARCH, 2022, ONCE THE DECKER UNIT TO ASSUMING IT'S RETIRED, UM, WE'LL HAVE SEVEN SOLAR FARMS THAT NEARLY A THOUSAND MEGAWATTS, EIGHT WIND PROJECTS, AND ALMOST 1800 1800 MEGAWATTS, THE SOUTH TEXAS NUCLEAR PROJECT FOUR IN 30 MEGAWATTS, OUR SANDHILL ENERGY CENTER, WHICH IS 570 MEGAWATTS. 
          IT'S A NATURAL GAS FACILITY. 
          OF COURSE, THE POWER PLANT, UH, WHICH IS 590 MEGAWATTS, OUR SHARE, UH, THE NACADOCIOUS A BIOMASS PLANT, WHICH IS A HUNDRED MEGAWATTS. 
          AND THEN THE DECKER QUICK START GAS TURBINES, AS I MENTIONED IT, 200 MEGAWATTS. 
          AND SO AT THAT POINT, UH, AFTER ON THE ASSUMPTION THAT DECKER TWO IS ALLOWED TO RETIRE, THEN THE MARCH, THEN WE WOULD BE AT 71% ON A CAPACITY BASIS. 
          CARBON-FREE IF WE'LL GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, THAT'S IT ACTUALLY. 
          SO I CAN ENTERTAIN QUESTIONS THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE SEEN IN MY SLIDE DECK. 
          THANK YOU VERY MUCH. 
          UM, COMMISSIONER DOES QUESTIONS, UH, COMMISSIONER CHEVERIA. 
          SO WITH RESPECT TO THE FAYETTE POWER PLANT, I WAS CURIOUS ABOUT WHETHER AUSTIN ENERGY'S LOOKED AT ANY OTHER, UM, OPTIONS OTHER THAN REACH IN ORDER TO REDUCE EMISSIONS FROM THE PLANT, FOR EXAMPLE, ANY TECHNOLOGICAL OPTIONS THERE THAT CAN REDUCE EMISSIONS. 
          UH, THERE THERE'S BEEN CONSIDERATION OF THAT IN THE PAST, LIKE A CARBON CAPTURE, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. 
          UH, BUT THE ECONOMICS OF THAT ARE VERY TOUGH. 
          AND AGAIN, GIVEN OUR PARTNERSHIP ARRANGEMENT, WE CAN'T, WE CAN'T IMPLEMENT SOMETHING LIKE THAT ON OUR OWN. 
          SO EVEN IF YOU CAME UP WITH SOMETHING ELSE HERE, I WOULD NEED TO AGREE TO THAT. 
          YES, THOSE UNITS ARE, ARE SORTA LIKE TENANTS IN COMMON. 
          THEY'RE THEY'RE THERE, WE DON'T, WE HAVE A SHARE OF TWO UNITS, NOT ONE OR THE, IS IT BECAUSE ELSEWHERE I WOULD HAVE TO SHARE IN THE COST OF IMPLANTS? WELL, THEY WOULD HAVE TO AGREE WITH US. 
          SO LET'S, LET'S USE AS AN EXAMPLE, IF WE SAID THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO DO THAT, UH, THEN THEY WOULD HAVE TO AGREE WITH US TO DO THAT. 
          AND THEN THEY WOULD ULTIMATELY SHARE IN THAT COST. 
          OKAY. 
          JUST HYPOTHETICALLY, UM, HYPOTHETICALLY, IF AUSTIN ENERGY WANTED TO IMPLEMENT SOMETHING AND LCRA DIDN'T HAVE TO SHARE IN THE COST, WOULD WE CONTRACTUALLY BE ABLE TO DO THAT? NO, WE COULDN'T. 
          WE COULDN'T MODIFY THE UNIT, THE OPERATION OR NATURE OF THOSE UNITS ON OUR OWN. 
          OKAY. 
          OKAY. 
          W WHAT DO YOU, UM, PROJECT THE USEFUL LIFE IS LEFT FOR THE FAYETTE? I, YOU KNOW, I DON'T HAVE A HARD PROJECTION OF MOST POWER PLANTS WHEN THEY'RE BUILT, HAVE, HAVE A NOMINAL LIFE OF 30 TO 50 YEARS. 
          UH, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE LIKE A LOT OF THINGS WHERE YOU CAN KEEP PUTTING MONEY INTO THEM AND YOU CAN MAKE THINGS GO THINK OF ANTIQUE CARS THAT YOU SEE ON THE ROAD FROM TIME TO TIME IT'S POSSIBLE, BUT THAT'S A HOBBY, YOU KNOW, UH, GENERALLY SPEAKING, UH, IT'S NOT THE ECONOMICS, THE WEAR AND TEAR ON THE FACILITIES, UH, DICTATE WHEN THAT END OCCURS. 
          AND SO, UH, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF MARKET PRESSURE IN RECENT YEARS, UH, THAT IS MAKING THE OPERATION, THAT FACILITY AND ONES LIKE IT, MORE CHALLENGING. 
          UH, I SUSPECT THAT'S GOING TO CONTINUE. 
          AND AGAIN, THOSE UNITS DON'T GET ANY YOUNGER. 
          AND, UH, WHEN YOU LOOK AT, UH, NEEDS TO POTENTIALLY RE MAKE MAJOR REPAIRS, IF THOSE NUMBERS ARE HIGH ENOUGH, IT WOULD PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, SPELL A SHORTENED, UH, YOU KNOW, SHORTEN LIFE AT THAT POINT. 
          WELL, THEY ALSO HAVE TO AGREE THAT THE USEFUL LIFE. 
          SO AGAIN, ULTIMATELY WE'RE, WE ARE PARTNERS AND THERE HAS TO BE AN AGREEMENT AS TO WHENEVER THAT END COMES. 
          OKAY. 
          OKAY. 
          OKAY. 
          I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS. 
          THANK YOU. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          BUT I THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. 
          SURE. 
          I'M ON A SLIDE SEX TOXIN TALKING ABOUT DECKER STEAM UNIT TOO. 
          SO WHEN ED RETIRED, UH, ARE THERE ANY ISSUES WITH CAPACITY FOR EAST AUSTIN RESIDENTS OR ANY OTHER BUSINESSES IN THAT AREA? WOW. 
          NO, WE'RE NOT AWARE OF ANY. 
          UH, AND, AND SO JUST TO BE CLEAR ON A COUPLE OF POINTS ONE, UH, SO OUR GENERATORS, THIS IS TRUE OF ALL THE FOLKS IN ERCOT. 
          WE DON'T, OUR GENERATORS DON'T DIRECTLY SERVE OUR DEMANDS OF THE ENERGY FROM, AND THIS IS TRUE OF OUR CONVENTIONAL UNITS THAT ARE LOW LOCAL OR NEARBY, OR ANY OF THE REMOTE ONES, FAYETTE, STP, OR, OR ANY OF THE RENEWABLE UNITS THAT, THAT POWER JUST IS PUSHED IN THE MARKET. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND WE SELL IT IN AND WE PAYMENT BACK. 
          SO THEY'RE NOT MATCHED UP TO JUST THE AUSTIN ENERGY LOAD NOW IN A VERY LOCAL SENSE. 
          AND THIS IS TRUE AGAIN, OF ANY GENERATOR. 
          UH, AND THIS IS WHAT THE ERCOT PROCESS IS DESIGNED TO DO. 
          THERE MIGHT BE, THEY'RE NOT SAYING THERE IS IN THIS CASE, UH, WE DON'T BELIEVE THERE IS, BUT THEY LOOK AT THAT RELATIVE 
          [00:30:01]
TO A GENERATOR BEING RETIRED AS TO WHETHER IN THAT VERY SPECIFIC AREA, THE TRANSMISSION LINES THAT COME IN AND OUT OF THAT PLANT MIGHT CREATE A, HAVE A BOTTLENECK SITUATION, FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE THERE'S AN INADEQUATE AMOUNT OF, UH, FLOW OF POWER, UH, COMING, YOU KNOW, COMING OUT VERSUS COMING IN. 
          AND SO, UH, BUT IT WOULD NOT BE, IT WOULD NOT BE ON A NEIGHBORHOOD TYPE BASIS. 
          IT'S MORE, IT'S A GRID GRID LEVEL BASIS, BUT IN THAT, THAT REGION, AROUND THAT FACILITY. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, ONE MORE QUESTION ON, ON A SLIGHT EIGHT, UH, THIS HAS TO DO WITH THAT 71% THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT 66 VERSUS 71, RIGHT? SO IN THE PORTFOLIO, UH, IT STILL TALKS ABOUT FED CALLS. 
          SO THAT'S MEAN THAT EVEN HAVE 71% CARBON-FREE MINUS THE FAYETTE AND SAN HILL AND DECKER OR SO, SO THIS IS, THIS, THESE NUMBERS ARE BASED ON THE PRODUCTION CAPACITY, THE FACILITIES. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, MEANING IT DOESN'T, IT DOESN'T COUNT THE ENERGY OUTPUT THAT COMES FROM THEM. 
          UH, BUT ON THAT BASIS, THIS WOULD BE AFTER, YOU KNOW, AS A MARCH ON THE ASSUMPTION THAT WE DO RETIRE DECKER, THAT THESE, ALL OF THESE OTHER UNITS ARE STILL THERE AND OPERATING AND, AND ARE AVAILABLE OPERATE ANYWAY. 
          AND SO ON THAT BASIS, UH, THAT THAT'S WHAT THAT SPLIT WOULD BE ON CARBON EMITTING VERSUS NON-CARBON EMITTING. 
          OKAY. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          THANKS. 
          SURE. 
          THANK YOU. 
          APPRECIATE THE UPDATE. 
          UM, COUPLE OF QUESTIONS, UM, ON FAYETTE, I'M WONDERING, YOU MENTIONED THIS ISSUE OF, YOU KNOW, THE PLANT IS AGING, AND YOU'RE GOING TO, AT SOME POINT HAVE TO START MAKING INVESTMENTS IF IT'S EVEN GONNA BE ABLE TO KEEP RUNNING. 
          IS THAT SOMETHING THAT AUSTIN ENERGY AS A PARTNER HAS TO APPROVE OF, OR DOES LCRA GET TO MAKE THOSE INVESTMENTS AND THEN JUST CHARGE AUSTIN ENERGY? YOU'RE HALF. 
          SO AUSTIN IS PART OF OUR ROLE. 
          THERE. 
          WE, WE PARTICIPATE ON A MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE AND THAT COMMITTEE APPROVES THE BUSINESS PLAN, WHICH INCLUDES THE BUDGET FOR THE FACILITY AND CAPITAL PROJECTS AND THINGS OF THAT SORT. 
          SO WE DO HAVE A VOICE IN, UH, THE APPROVAL OF SPENDING MONEY ON LIFE, EXTENSION OP YOU KNOW, THINGS OF THAT SORT THAT WOULD, UH, BE INTENDED TO EXTEND THE LIFE OR REPAIR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. 
          YES. 
          IS THAT LIKE A 50, 50 VOICE OR SOMETHING LESS? UH, WELL, IT'S, IT'S A PROPORTION. 
          IT'S OUR OWNERSHIP SHARE VOICE FOR OUR TWO. 
          RIGHT. 
          OKAY. 
          THAT'S HELPFUL. 
          UM, AND THEN I GUESS MY OTHER QUESTION IS KIND OF AROUND REACH OR ANY OTHER STRATEGY TO NOT RUN THE UNIT OR RUN THE UNIT LESS. 
          HOW DOES THAT TRANSLATE INTO THE OPERATING COSTS THAT AUSTIN ENERGY HAS TO PAY? DOES IT, IF SAY AUSTIN ENERGY ON A GIVEN DAY IS NOT RUNNING IT'S HALF DO, DOES THE UTILITY STILL HAVE TO PAY HALF OF THE OPERATING EXPENSES OR DOES LCRA HAVE TO COVER THAT? SO YOU CAN IMAGINE, SO FE IT'S LIKE, UM, VIRTUALLY ANY OTHER KIND OF CONVENTIONAL POWER PLANT. 
          UM, YOU, YOU, YOU HAVE A CERTAIN EXPENSE FOR JUST BEING SITTING THERE RIGHT. 
          AND AVAILABLE. 
          SO YOU'VE, YOU'VE BUILT IT, HAVE THE MORTGAGE ON IT, YOU PAY THE FOLKS THAT, THAT ARE THERE TO OPERATE IT AND MAINTAIN IT. 
          AND SO YOU HAVE SOME CERTAIN LEVEL OF A FIXED EXPENSE THAT THAT EXPENSE WOULD STILL BE THERE. 
          IT'S WHAT, WHERE THE DIFFERENCE IS, IS JUST THE, THE VARIABLE EXPENSE, WHICH IS IN THIS CASE, IN THIS CASE WILL BE FUEL. 
          WE, WE WOULD NOT BE BURNING SOME OF THAT FUEL. 
          OKAY. 
          OKAY. 
          AND SO EVEN IF AUSTIN ENERGY SAY WERE TO SAY, WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT GOING TO RUN OUR PORTION ALL YEAR, YOU WOULD STILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR PAIN, HALF OF THOSE FIXED EXPENSES, OR IF IT WAS A MORE KIND OF PERMANENT THING, WOULD THAT CHANGE, RIGHT. 
          SO WE HAVE, SO THOSE FIXED EXPENSES ARE SPLIT ON, ON OWNERSHIP SHARES. 
          YES. 
          YUP. 
          UM, YEAH. 
          THANKS FOR, UH, PRESENTING. 
          UM, I WAS CURIOUS IF THE DECISION TO CONTINUE RUNNING OR, OR TO, TO, UM, EXTEND THE, SORT OF EXTEND THE DECK HERE TO, UM, SORRY. 
          I'M PROBABLY GETTING TOO FAR AWAY FROM THE MIC. 
          UM, WAS THAT JUST AN AUSTIN ENERGY AND TONAL DECISION OR WAS THAT A COUNCIL DECISION OR AN IN CONSULTATION WITH THEM? COULD YOU DESCRIBE THAT? SO WE DID BRIEF COUNSEL AHEAD OF TIME ON, ON THAT, THAT PLAN. 
          YES. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, AND LET'S SEE, 
          [00:35:04]
UM, IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION ON, UM, INCREASING THE PRICE ADDER FOR REACH, UH, GIVEN THAT, YOU KNOW, THE COAL PLANT WON'T BE, UH, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST, UH, IN THEORY WON'T BE AS RETIRED AS QUICKLY. 
          AND SO IN, IN THAT SENSE, THERE WOULD BE MORE CARBON EMISSIONS. 
          SO I DON'T HAVE PARTICULARS, BUT, UH, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT AS TO HOW TO USE BREACH MORE. 
          AND SO ONE OF THE WAY, THE BASIC WAY YOU WOULD PROBABLY DO THAT IS TO INCREASE THE PRICE, ADD HER TO DECREASE THE AMOUNT OF OUTPUT MORE THAN IT WOULD OTHERWISE HAVE BEEN. 
          OKAY. 
          THANKS YET. 
          THAT'S WHAT I HOPE TO HEAR. 
          SO, PAT, SO WHEN YOU IMPLEMENT REACH, WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS YOU'RE ADDING A KIND OF AN ARTIFICIAL AMOUNT TO THE BID PRICE OF THAT UNIT TO MAKE IT RUN LESS CORRECT. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND I MEAN, HOW DOES THAT INTERACT WITH LCRA? I MEAN, DO THEY HAVE INPUT INTO THAT AS WELL? NO, WE, WE EACH HAVE, WE HAVE DISPATCH CONTROL OVER OUR SHARE OF, OF THE UNITS. 
          HOWEVER, NEITHER PARTY CAN SHUT DOWN A UNIT. 
          THERE'S A MINIMUM BELOW, WHICH WE CAN'T GO AND SAME IS TRUE OF THEM. 
          BUT ABOVE THAT MINIMUM, UH, UP, UP TO THE TOP OR DOWN TO THAT MINIMUM, IT'S BASED ON THE OFFER THAT WE MAKE FOR THE UNIT TO, INTO ERCOT. 
          IN OTHER WORDS, WE SAY ERCOT SEES, UH, A SET OF OFFERS FROM MERCK, FROM LCRA, FOR THEIR SHARE. 
          AND THEY SEE ONE FROM OUR SHARE AND THE SIGNALS COME IN SEPARATELY TO, TO MOVE THE UNIT UP OR DOWN. 
          BUT, BUT IT'S A SINGLE UNIT, RIGHT? I MEAN, HOW DOES THAT AFFECT THE, THE, THE PHYSICAL DISPATCH OF THE UNIT WHEN YOU'VE GOT TWO DIFFERENT? SO THERE'S, SO THERE'S TWO UNITS, RIGHT? UH, AND, AND THIS IS THE CASE FOR IN ERCOT. 
          THESE ARE CALLED JOINTLY THEY'RE JOINTLY OWN UNITS. 
          UH, SOUNDS OBVIOUS, I SUPPOSE, BUT, UH, THEY, IN ERCOT, THOSE UNITS ARE TREATED THROUGH A, A PRESET METERING SCHEME THAT RECOGNIZES THAT. 
          FOR EXAMPLE, WE OWN HALF OF A UNIT ONE AND TWO AT FAYETTE. 
          AND SO WHEN WE MAKE AN OFFER TO SELL POWER FROM THAT UNIT, UH, IT ONLY REFLECTS OUR SHARE IN ARCATA KNOWS THAT AHEAD OF TIME. 
          AND SO WHEN THEY RESPOND TO OUR, OUR OFFER, THE SIGNAL THAT COMES BACK TO GO UP OR DOWN ALSO ONLY AFFECTS OUR SHARE. 
          NOW AT THE SAME TIME, LCRA ON THEIR SIDE OR ANY OWNER OF A JOINT UNIT IS ALSO RECEIVING A SIGNAL. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND SO THE SIGNAL THEN IS INTEGRATED SO THAT THE END RESULT IS THE UNIT MOVING UP OR DOWN BY THE RIGHT AMOUNT, RIGHT? SO YOU GOTTA HAVE ONE GOING UP. 
          AND ONE GOING DOWN THE, THE COMPUTER SYSTEM DOES THE MATH AND PUTS THE UNIT WHERE, YOU KNOW, WHERE IT NEEDS TO GO ON A NET BASIS. 
          AND THEN, THEN IT'S A BOOKKEEPING EXERCISE ON THE PART OF, OF ERCOT AND THE METERING. 
          GOTCHA. 
          SO THERE, THEY KIND OF USE LIKE A BLENDED RATE WHEN THEY'RE DISPATCHING A SINGLE UNIT THAT'S OWNED BY TWO OWNERS. 
          NO, THEY ACTUALLY KNOW THAT EACH OWNER OF A, OF A, OF A, UH, JOINTLY OWN UNIT IS ACTUALLY GIVING ERCOT A PRICE JUST FOR THEIR SHARE OF THAT UNIT. 
          SO AGAIN, THE, THE, THE, THE, THE ERCOT RESPONSE TO THE PRICE FROM THE DIFFERENT, OR SAME PRICES, WHATEVER, THEY MIGHT BE PRICES FROM THE OWNERS, UH, AND SINCE DISPATCH. 
          SO LET'S SAY THERE'S THREE OWNERS, IT WOULD SEND THREE DIFFERENT DISPATCH INSTRUCTIONS BASED ON THOSE THREE OWNERS PRICES. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND SO IT COULD HAVE ONE GOING UP OR ONE GOING DOWN AND TWO GOING UP AND ONE GOING DOWN. 
          AND WHAT HAPPENS THOUGH, IS THOSE ALL COME BACK TO A CENTRAL CONTROL SYSTEM, SO THAT THEY'RE ALL EFFECTIVELY ADDED TOGETHER. 
          AND AGAIN, THE NET RESULT OF WHATEVER THE UNIT NEEDS TO DO ON A NET BASIS OF ALL THOSE THREE OWNERS THEN, YOU KNOW, MOVES IT UP OR DOWN. 
          AND THEN AGAIN, THERE'S A, THERE'S AN ONLINE EFFECTIVELY, AN ONLINE METERING AND ACCOUNTING SYSTEM THAT KEEPS TRACK OF WHO SHARE IS GOING UP OR DOWN OUT OF THAT TOTAL. 
          GOTCHA. 
          UM, THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU FOR THE EXPLANATION. 
          AND I'M SORRY TO PING PONG BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN FAYETTE AND DECKER. 
          UM, BUT WE'D LOVE TO MAYBE EXTEND THAT A BIT MORE, BECAUSE I WAS CURIOUS ABOUT THE ECONOMICS OF THE FOUR TURBINES THAT WILL REMAIN QUICK-START TURBINES. 
          AND SO, SO REACH WILL BE AFFECTING THE ECONOMICS OF, OF WHEN THOSE TURBINES COME ON. 
          AND THEN I WOULD ASSUME THAT THE FACT THAT THE, IF, IF, IF DECKER DOES SHUT DOWN, THAT WILL ALSO AFFECT THE ECONOMICS OF THE QUICK START OPERATION. 
          IS THAT TRUE? SO DOES THAT, DO THOSE UNITS BECOME MORE EXPENSIVE, I GUESS IS KIND OF WHERE I'M GOING? THEY'RE TOTALLY SET. 
          SO THE G AGAIN, THE GAS TURBANS ARE DECKER, UH, UH, FED 
          [00:40:01]
IS A FULLY WHOLLY SEPARATE FACILITY. 
          SO, UH, REACH THE REACH ADDER IS APPLIED TO THE FAYETTE UNITS, THE COAL, NOT, NOT TO GAS AT ALL. 
          OH, NOT CURRENTLY. 
          RIGHT. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          SORRY. 
          I WAS, I THINK THE RESOURCE PLAN SAID THEY'D BE APPLIED TO, TO NATURAL GAS AFTER COAL WAS, UH, SHUT DOWN. 
          IS THAT CORRECT? I, I, I CAN'T SAY FOR CERTAIN, I DON'T RECALL SPECIFICALLY, BUT, UH, AT THE MOMENT THAT WOULD BE IT'S RELATIVE TO FAYETTE. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UM, JUST WANTED TO FOLLOW UP ON THE QUESTION ABOUT, UM, INCREASE IN THE USE OF REACH. 
          UM, ARE YOU LOOKING AT INCREASING THAT FOR 2022 OR AFTER 2022 OR BOTH? UH, RIGHT NOW THE PRIMARY FOCUS IS TO CONSIDER WHAT WE WOULD DO AFTER 20. 
          I'M GOING TO SAY AFTER 2022, JANUARY 1ST, 2023, WHICH WAS OUR TARGET DATE FOR RETIRING, UM, THAT, OKAY. 
          YEAH, JUST, I I'M ASKING BECAUSE I'M THINKING, WELL, SINCE REACH, CAN'T GET THE SAME RESULT AS RETIRING THE UNIT IN TERMS OF CARBON REDUCTION, ONE WAY TO PARTIALLY MAKE UP FOR THAT WOULD MAYBE BE TO RAMP IT UP QUICKER IN THE COMING YEAR. 
          UM, JUST A THOUGHT THERE. 
          UM, I DID ALSO HAVE A, I THINK I'M STILL NOT A HUNDRED UNDERSTANDING THE, UM, THE MINIMUM DOES THAT APPLY. 
          I KNOW THERE'S LIKE A PHYSICAL MINIMUM THAT THE PLANT CAN'T GO BELOW WITH AND WITHOUT SHUTTING IT OFF, CAN AUSTIN ENERGY BE AT ZERO THOUGH, IF LCRA HAS THEIR SHARE RUNNING ABOVE THAT PHYSICAL MINIMUM? UH, NO, NOT REALLY. 
          SO, UM, AND FAYETTE IS NOT UNIQUE IN TERMS OF OTHER GENERATORS. 
          THERE'S A, TYPICALLY THESE BIGGER GENERATORS, THESE PARTICULARLY ONES LIKE DECKER FAYETTE THAT WERE ORIGINALLY DESIGNED TO OPERATE AS BASE-LOAD FACILITIES AROUND THE CLOCK, THEY HAVE A LOW OPERATING LIMIT, AND YOU'LL, YOU'LL HEAR AN ERCOT PAR LANCERS AT WHAT'S CALLED A LSL OR LOW SUSTAINABLE LIMIT. 
          WHAT THAT MEANS IS FROM THE DESIGN OF THE FACILITY, THAT'S AS LOW AS THEY CAN KIND OF GO. 
          SO CALL IT SOMETHING AKIN TO IDLE IN A CAR ALMOST, UH, BEFORE THEY WOULD BECOME UNSTABLE AND POTENTIALLY GO OFFLINE. 
          AND SO, IN, IN FAYETTE'S CASE, IF AS, AS WE EITHER PARTY CAN GO DOWN TO THEIR SHARE OF THAT LSL, BUT THAT'S AS LOW AS YOU CAN GO. 
          OKAY. 
          SO EVEN IF, IF THE UNIT WOULD OTHER BI WAS BE RUNNING JUST FINE AT SAY 50%, BECAUSE THEY'LL SYRIA WAS RUNNING THEIR FULL PORTION BECAUSE OF THE CONTRACT, YOU CAN GO DOWN TO ZERO. 
          WE CAN WRITE, WE STILL CAN'T GO TO ZERO. 
          WE CAN ONLY GO TO OUR SHARE OF THE MINIMUM. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND WHAT IS THAT? 70 ABOUT 75 MEGAWATTS. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          SORRY, IS THAT A TOTAL OR 70 HALF? THAT'S OUR SHARE PER UNIT PER UNIT. 
          OKAY. 
          YEP. 
          ALL RIGHT, PAT. 
          UH, NO FURTHER QUESTIONS. 
          THANK YOU VERY MUCH. 
          WE APPRECIATE YOU HAVING YOU COME IN TONIGHT. 
          THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME APPRECIATE IT. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          UM, NEXT UP 
          [4. Briefing from Arushi Frank of the ERCOT Innovation Caucus on demand response
technologies and opportunities. (Sponsors: Blackburn; Chavarria)]
ITEM FOUR BRIEFING FROM ARUSHI, FRANK OF THE ERCOT INNOVATION CAUCUS ON DEMAND, RESPONSE TECHNOLOGIES AND OPPORTUNITIES. 
          UM, I I'LL KIND OF TEE OFF THIS TOPIC. 
          UH, THIS IS ONE THAT, UH, I'VE BECOME REALLY INTERESTED IN LATELY. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IN KIND OF THE AFTERMATH OF THE WINTER STORM, UH, JUST THINKING ABOUT, UM, MYSELF AND PROBABLY A LOT OF FOLKS AROUND THE STATE, UM, AT MY HOUSE, FOR EXAMPLE, I HAVE SOLAR, BUT I DID NOT INSTALL A BATTERY BECAUSE THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO FINANCIAL REASON FOR ME TO DO SO. 
          I HAVE AN EVIE, BUT THERE'S NO INCENTIVE FOR ME NOT TO PLUG IT IN AT FIVE O'CLOCK IN THE AFTERNOON ON AUGUST. 
          UH, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT'S HOT AND POWER PRICES ARE VERY HIGH. 
          UM, I HAVE A CONTROLLABLE LOAD IN THE FORM OF AN HVAC OR, UH, YOU KNOW, WATER HEATER. 
          AND I THINK I'M PRETTY, THAT'S, THAT'S PRETTY, UM, I WOULD SAY FAIRLY COMMON WITHIN AUSTIN AND IT'S, IT'S, IT'S REALLY AN INTERESTING IDEA OF HOW CAN WE USE THOSE TYPES OF CONTROLLABLE TECHNOLOGIES ON THE DEMAND SIDE, UH, TO HELP REDUCE OUR PEAKS AND ACTUALLY TO BECOME A GRID RESOURCE, UM, RATHER THAN JUST THINKING ABOUT THE GRID AS A ONE-WAY, UH, YOU KNOW, RESOURCE WHERE WE HAVE THESE POWER PLANTS THAT WE DISPATCH WHEN WE NEED POWER, UH, THAT, HOW CAN WE ACTUALLY USE THE DEMAND SIDE TO, TO HELP TO MANAGE THAT AS WELL? UM, SO I'VE, WE'VE INVITED ARUSHI WITH, UH, WHO WAS WITH A COALITION OF, OF 
          [00:45:01]
COMPANIES, UH, THAT ARE WORKING IN TEXAS AROUND THOSE ISSUES. 
          AND I'VE ASKED HER TO GIVE US AN OVERVIEW OF WHAT, UH, IS BEING DONE IN TEXAS. 
          AND WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT WE CAN BE THINKING ABOUT, UM, AS WE WORK WITH AUSTIN ENERGY TO IMPLEMENT SOME OF THESE PROGRAMS, UH, WITHIN, WITHIN THE AUSTIN TERRITORY AND HOW CAN, HOW CAN WE, UH, YOU KNOW, HELP THE UTILITY BECOME MORE EFFECTIVE AT MANAGING WHAT, WHAT REALLY IS A, IS A NEW SET OF TECHNOLOGIES AND A NEW SET OF POSSIBILITIES. 
          SO ARUSHI ARE YOU, YOU CAN, CAN YOU HEAR ME ALL RIGHT. 
          UH, AND WE CAN HEAR YOU, SO, UH, YOUR PRESENTATION IS BEING UPLOADED AND I WILL TURN IT OVER TO YOU. 
          THANK YOU SO MUCH. 
          I'M JUST ON BACKGROUND. 
          I AM A TESLA ENERGY NOW, BUT I'VE ONLY BEEN HERE FOR ABOUT TWO YEARS, AND I HAVE SPENT MY CAREER IN ENERGY POLICY AND LEGAL WORK. 
          UM, I'VE REPRESENTED SNAFFLE GAS UTILITIES HERE ON CAPITOL HILL, UM, AT THE NATIONAL TRADE ASSOCIATION AND TAKING THEM, UM, THROUGH THE ROPES WITH GREENHOUSE GAS REGULATION, UM, PERMITTING NISA PARK REGULATION OF GAS SHIPPERS. 
          I'VE BEEN TRANSFERRED OVER TO COMPETITIVE POWERS AND REPRESENTED IPTS, UM, AS LEAD COUNSEL FOR THE ELECTRIC POWER SUPPLY ASSOCIATION IN WASHINGTON, DC AS WELL. 
          UM, AND THEN FROM THERE, I MOVED INTO EXELON CORPORATION INTO THEIR COMPETITIVE GENERATION SIDE, UM, MANAGING COMPLIANCE WITH RTO ISO REGULATIONS AROUND THE COUNTRY, UM, AND DID THAT FOR ABOUT THREE AND A HALF YEARS. 
          UM, SO HERE AT TESLA AND MY ROLE IS TO GET INVOLVED IN RTO, I, AS A POLICY ON THE COUNTRY, UM, HEALTH REGULATORS, AS WELL AS STAKEHOLDERS UNDERSTAND THE BURGEONING REGULATORY CONSTRUCT THAT GOES AROUND EVERYTHING THAT WE TALK ABOUT WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT ENERGY POLICY, UM, AND REALLY HELP OUR OWN CUSTOMERS AND THROUGH TESLA, WHAT THEIR BEST OPTIONS ARE AND HELP THEM LEVERAGE THE BEST PROGRAMS AVAILABLE TO DEVASTATE BY STATE, AND THEN WORK WITH THE STATES WITH REGIONAL AND FEDERAL REGULATORS AS WELL TO PUSH FORWARDS PROGRAMS THAT MAKE SENSE AND WE'LL PENCIL ON MECHANICS, SO THAT THEY'RE ACTUALLY ADOPTERS OUT THERE FOR THE PROGRAMS. MY PRESENTATION TODAY IS ON BEHALF OF MYSELF AS AN EXPERT ON BEHALF OF TESLA ENERGY, AS WELL AS ON BEHALF OF THE TESLA INNOVATION OFFICE. 
          I AM A REPRESENTATIVE FOR TESLA. 
          I SIT ON THE INDEPENDENT GENERATORS SEGMENT OF HER CAR BECAUSE WE HAVE A A HUNDRED MEGAWATT, 201 MEGAWATT HOUR BATTERY OPERATES AS A CONVENTIONAL RESOURCE AND ENERGY STORAGE RESOURCE ON THAT SYSTEM. 
          UM, AS YOU ALL MAY ALREADY KNOW THE COVER IMAGE UP THIS SLIDE SHOWS WHAT ELSE TESLA DOES IN THE ENERGY SPACE. 
          UM, WE SELL BATTERY PRODUCTS, WE SELL SOLAR PRODUCTS. 
          WE ALSO SELL THE SOFTWARE AS FAR AS THE PROGRAMMING THAT IT'S DESIGNED TO PROVIDE BACKEND SUPPORT, UH, TO THIRD PARTY DEVICES. 
          SO NOT EVERY TEST TESLA PRODUCT, FOR EXAMPLE, IT GETS INSTALLED WITH A TESLA, SOLAR INVERTER. 
          WE HAVE OTHER INVERTERS IN STOCK. 
          WE SOMETIMES HAVE OTHER BATTERIES ON STOCK AS AN INSTALLER. 
          WE WILL BE PUTTING IN OTHER TECHNOLOGIES WHERE WE HAVE NEITHER IN SUPPLY, OR MAYBE JUST FOR CONTRACT REASONS. 
          WE HAVE SOMEONE ELSE'S TECHNOLOGY AS PART OF OUR INSTALL PORTFOLIO FOR A SPECIFIC PROJECT OR REGION. 
          AND SO WITH THAT BACKGROUND, I DO WANT TO EXPRESS THANKS TO THE COMMISSION TODAY FOR HAVING ME. 
          AND, UM, I WOULD LIKE TO RESERVE SOME TIME FOR QUESTIONS. 
          I'M GOING TO RUN MY PRESENTATION FOR LITTLE UNDER 20 MINUTES TO SAVE SOME TIME AND TRY TO RESERVE UP TO EIGHT MINUTES FOR QUESTIONS. 
          UM, IT GIVES ME A WARNING IF I DON'T TRY IT MYSELF AT AROUND SEVEN 40 CENTRAL, AND I'LL DO MY BEST TO WRAP IT UP, BUT OPEN THE FLOOR. 
          UM, TWO MORE POINTS. 
          I HAVE SOMEONE WITH ME FROM THE INNOVATION CAUCUS, ACTUALLY TWO FOLKS. 
          JOHN WHALEY IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE TEXAS CHAPTER OF OAK CONNECT TO MEET MAJOR DEMAND RESPONSE PROVIDER. 
          UM, HIS COMPANY ON CONNECT IS ALSO A PART OF THE INNOVATION POCKETS AND, UM, OUR CAUCUS LEAD ERIC GOFF, UH, IS CURRENTLY INDEPENDENT CONSULTANT WORKING WITH US AND WITH SEVERAL OTHER COMPANIES IN ERCOT ON, UM, RESILIENCY AND TECHNOLOGY SOLUTIONS FOR THE MARKET IS FULL, IS ALSO HERE. 
          SO IF I START TO FILL OUT, BUT ANY OF THE QUESTIONS YOU ALL ASKED ME TONIGHT, I WILL TURN IT OVER TO A COUPLE OF EXPERTS WHO ARE DEEPLY VESTED IN ALL THINGS, TEXAS MILKINGS, ENERGY, XYZ REALLY QUICK. 
          UH, COULD YOU, UH, WE'VE GOT YOU TURNED OFF AS LOUD AS WE CAN, BUT IT'S A LITTLE SOFT ON OUR END. 
          COULD YOU LEAN A LITTLE BIT, HAVE TO MAKE SURE ALL THAT MEANS IS DRAWING THE LAPTOP CLOSER AND CLOSER IN, AND WE'LL SEE WHAT THAT DOES FOR YOU. 
          OKAY. 
          HOW IS THIS? YEAH, MUCH BETTER. 
          THANK YOU. 
          FANTASTIC. 
          OKAY, NEXT SLIDE. 
          COOL. 
          THANK YOU. 
          SO WHAT I'M GOING TO COVER TODAY IS ESSENTIALLY TRYING TO EXPLAIN AT A HIGH LEVEL WHAT DEMAND 
          [00:50:01]
SIDE RESILIENCY IS. 
          I JUST SAW ON THE SCREEN, UM, A PRESENTATION THAT SHOWED US WHAT AUSTIN GENERATION SIZE CURRENT RESOURCE MIX LOOKS LIKE. 
          UM, YOU HAVE ALMOST A THOUSAND MEGAWATTS OF SOLAR COMING ONLINE. 
          YOU HAVE A COUPLE OF HUNDRED MEGAWATTS AND PLANTS LIKE DECKER, AND YOU HAVE SOMEWHERE BETWEEN A FIVE, 500,500 MICROWATTS AND A THOUSAND MEGAWATTS AND OTHER PLANTS AND TECHNOLOGY COMING ONLINE TO START TO PUSH YOUR GENERATION PORTFOLIO TO WORK A GREENER MIX, YOU KNOW, FOR YOUR 20 OR 2030 TARGETS, THE WHOLE POINT OF DEMAND SIDE RESILIENCY IS TO BE ABLE TO OFFSET THOSE SUPPLY SIDE CONSTRAINTS AND FIGURE OUT WAYS TO ESSENTIALLY BUILD ELECTRIC SYSTEM RESILIENCY, UNSERVED DEMAND FROM TECHNOLOGIES THAT ARE INSTALLED ON THE DISTRIBUTION SIDE OF THE SYSTEM, ESSENTIALLY HAVE WINNING COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH. 
          AND OF COURSE, ALL THE OTHER FLAVORS OF FINANCIAL EMISSIONS, ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS ASSOCIATED WITH HAVING TO FURTHER BUILD OUT YOUR GENERATION FLEET. 
          UM, SO WE'RE GOING TO COVER ESSENTIALLY WHAT THE DEMAND SIDE RESILIENCY REALLY IS. 
          I'M GOING TO INTRODUCE SOME OF THE PILLARS OF WHAT AN EFFECTIVE DEMAND SIDE PROGRAM LOOKS LIKE, UM, AND HOW THAT PLAYS INTO ENERGY RESILIENCY POLICY. 
          AND JUST GONNA RUN THROUGH SOME EXAMPLES OF THINGS THAT ARE ALREADY OUT THERE BEING DEPLOYED BY TESLA AT OTHER COMPANIES AROUND THIS COUNTRY AND AROUND THE WORLD. 
          UM, SOME THINGS ARE NOT GOING TO MAKE IT TO MY PRESENTATION TODAY, LIKE THE VEHICLE OF THE GRID. 
          AND THAT'S BECAUSE THOSE ARE STILL NASCENT PROGRAMS. WHAT I WANTED TO DO FOR THIS GROUP TODAY IS SHOW YOU WHAT'S ALREADY HERE ALREADY BEING IMPLEMENTED AND ALREADY EARNING MONEY AND EARNING ENVIRONMENTAL CREDIT, UM, AND EARNING THE RESPECT AND THE ATTENTION OF UTILITIES AND REGULATORS AROUND THE WORLD. 
          IT'S ALREADY HERE. 
          IT'S READY TO GO. 
          AND FRANKLY, I THINK THAT, UM, COOPERATIVE UTILITIES LIKE AUSTIN ENERGY, MUNICIPAL UTILITIES, LIKE AUSTIN ENERGY AND CO-OPS AS WELL BECAUSE THEY HAVE A VERTICAL MODEL. 
          THEY ARE ACTUALLY BETTER SUITED TO. 
          AND IN MANY CASES HAVE ALREADY DEMONSTRATED IN SOME OF THESE PROGRAMS. THEY'LL TALK ABOUT THEIR ABILITY TO CAPTURE ALL OF THESE VALUES AND REALLY BUILD OUT SOME OF THESE PROGRAMS. NEXT SLIDE. 
          OKAY. 
          SO REALLY QUICKLY, UM, AGAIN, WE JUST SPOKE IN THE PRIOR PRESENTATION ABOUT SUPPLY SIDE CHANGES, DEMAND SIDE. 
          THE TECHNOLOGY IS SIMPLY ANY TECHNOLOGY THAT ALLOWS AN ELECTRIC CUSTOMER, AN INDIVIDUAL, A COMMERCIAL, OR EVEN THE WHOLE UTILITY NETWORK CUSTOMER TO MODIFY THE MODEL OF ELECTRICITY. 
          IT MUST DRAW IN REAL TIME FROM THE BULK ELECTRIC SYSTEM TO SERVICE REAL-TIME ENERGY NEEDS, DEMAND SIDE POLICY THEN IS ANY POLICY THAT PROVIDES EITHER ECONOMIC INCENTIVE, A PRICE SIGNAL, OR A NON-ECONOMIC INCENTIVE LIKE A EMERGENCY CALL FROM AUSTIN ENERGY TO SHUT OFF YOUR POWER, UM, WHICH THEN CHANGE IN ELECTRICITY CUSTOMERS BEHAVIOR IN A WAY THAT DIRECTLY IMPACTS THE REALTIME RATE OF ENERGY CONSUMPTION OVER A TIMESCALE, ANYWHERE FROM SECONDS AND MINUTES TO HOURS AND SEASONS. 
          COUPLE OF GOOD EXAMPLES. 
          IF YOU ARE A PART OF A PROGRAM WHERE DURING THE WINTER MONTHS, YOUR UTILITY INCENTIVIZES YOU TO SAVE ON YOUR POWER BILLS THERE, THAT IS A SEASONAL PROGRAM FOR DEMAND RESPONSE REDUCTION. 
          IT'S A DEMAND SIDE PROGRAM DESIGNED TO BENEFIT THE UTILITIES OVERALL PEAK OVER A SEASON. 
          WHAT HAPPENED DURING THE STORM WITH CUSTOMERS BEING CALLED TO SUPPORT THE ROLLING OUTAGE PLAN FOR AUSTIN ENERGY IS AN EXAMPLE OF A TIMESCALE OF MINUTES AND HOURS OVER JUST A COUPLE OF DAYS, A PROGRAM THAT DID NOT HAVE A PRIVATE PRICE SIGNAL TO CUSTOMERS. 
          THERE'S NO OTHER ECONOMIC INCENTIVES DRIVING, HOW CUSTOMER BEHAVIOR SHOULD OCCUR IN THE MOMENTS LEADING UP TO A SEVERE GRID CONSTRAINT, ENROLLING OUTAGES. 
          SO THAT'S JUST TO EXPLAIN TO YOU THAT BROADLY SPEAKING, ANYTHING CAN BE A DEMAND SIDE POLICY. 
          THE REAL QUESTION IS HOW DO YOU GET TO THE POLICIES THAT SET UP AN ENHANCE A FRAMEWORK FOR CUSTOMERS TO RESPOND BY THEMSELVES AND EITHER EARN CREDITS OR SAVINGS ON THEIR FILL IN SCENT, THEIR INVESTMENTS IN DEMAND SIDE TECHNOLOGY LIKE STORAGE, SOLAR BACKUP, POWER, AND SHIPPED CONSUMPTION ON A NORMAL DAY, NOT JUST WHEN IT'S GOING TO BE A STORM OUTSIDE SO THAT YOU HAVE DAILY MANAGEMENT OF SYSTEM PEAKS AND RESILIENCY BUILDING, AS WELL AS ENERGY PLANT BUILDING THROUGH THE CHANGE BEHAVIOR OF YOUR CUSTOMERS ON EVERY DAILY PEAK OF EVERY DAY ON THE SYSTEM. 
          NEXT SLIDE. 
          OKAY. 
          SO BEFORE I PREFER TO PROCEED ANY FURTHER, I JUST WANT TO MAKE ONE SHOUT OUT TO, UM, MY COLLEAGUE CYRUS REED AT THE SIERRA CLUB, WHO OFTEN COMES TO YOUR PUC OR COTTON MEETINGS WITH A LOT OF GREAT DATA. 
          UM, AFTER THIS PRESENTATION, I'LL SEND YOU TO JONATHAN BLACKBURN A LINK TO CYRUS, HIS PRESENTATION TO THE PUC IN SEPTEMBER, AS PART OF THE BEGINNING OF THEIR MARKET DESIGN PROCEEDINGS, IN WHICH HE POINTED 
          [00:55:01]
OUT THAT RIGHT NOW ON THE SYSTEM ON THE ERCOT SYSTEM, THERE ARE ALREADY A THOUSAND MEGAWATTS OF DISTRIBUTED GENERATION SIZE UNDER ONE MEGAWATT, WHICH ERCOT DOES NOT HAVE ANY VISIBILITY TO AND DOES NOT HAVE PROGRAMS TO VALUE THE CONTRIBUTIONS OF THIS SMALL RESOURCES IN AGGREGATE IN THE ERCOT MARKET. 
          WITH THAT BEING SAID, AS FAR AS DEMAND SIDE PROG, UH, PROGRAMS AND TECHNOLOGY GOES, THERE'S A BIG JOB THERE. 
          AND IT REALLY, THE QUESTION BECOMES THAT WITHOUT HAVING OUR CUT INVOLVED, WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT VERTICAL UTILITIES, MEANING UTILITIES, CO-OP UTILITIES AND OTHERS CAN DO TO LEVERAGE REALLY SMALL DEMAND SIDE TECHNOLOGY CONTRIBUTIONS OF INDIVIDUAL CUSTOMERS AND DEVELOP THE SAME AMOUNT OF EFFECTIVE DEMAND RESPONSE AS ONE MIGHT GET FROM A MAJOR PROGRAM INVOLVING A LARGE DATA CENTER OR INVOLVING MAJOR COMMERCIAL OR INDUSTRIAL CUSTOMERS. 
          I JUST WANTED TO POINT THAT OUT AND I WILL SEND THAT AROUND I'M AFTER THE MEETING GOING TO HERE TO THIS SLIDE, UM, I WANT TO SET UP SOME OF THE EXAMPLES GOING TO TALK TODAY IN TERMS OF THESE PILLARS OF WHAT MAKES FOR GOOD RESILIENCY PROGRAMS. WE'VE JUST DISCUSSED WHAT A ECONOMIC PRICE SIGNAL IS. 
          IT'S A SIGNAL THAT INCENSE CUSTOMER BEHAVIOR PROVIDES A CLEAR BASIS FOR CUSTOMERS TO SET UP THE ENERGY CONSUMPTION BEHAVIORS IN CERTAIN WAYS THAT SUPPORT THE SYSTEM AND COMPENSATE THE CUSTOMER. 
          ANOTHER CRITICAL PILLAR IS THAT UTILITIES AND SYSTEM OPERATORS HAVE TO APPROVE THE TECHNOLOGY THAT MAKES THESE SOLUTIONS POSSIBLE. 
          THIRD IS THAT UTILITIES NEED TO FOCUS ON SOMETHING THAT YOU ALL OVERSEE VERY CLOSELY, WHICH IS RATE DESIGN AND PROGRAM VALUE. 
          ALL OF THOSE PROGRAMS, VALUE BENEFITS, BUT THE REAL QUESTION IS, ARE YOU VALUING ALL THE BENEFITS OF THE DEMAND SIDE OF YOUR SYSTEM? THE FOURTH PILLAR IS DESIGNED FOR CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE. 
          EXPERIENCE HAS DIFFERENT FLAVORS, JUST AS MUCH AS ACCESSIBILITY DOES, UM, EXPERIENCE AND ACCESSIBILITY GO HAND IN HAND BECAUSE PART OF BEING ABLE TO ACCESS THESE PROGRAMS MEANS A THEY NEED TO BE OFFERED TO ALL CUSTOMERS OR TO AS MANY CUSTOMERS AS POSSIBLE. 
          YOU MIGHT NEED TO ITERATE ON WHAT YOU OFFER TO A CUSTOMER, DEPENDING ON THE INCOME LEVEL AND THEIR ABILITY TO AFFORD A SPECIFIC TECHNOLOGY. 
          AND YOU WANT TO DESIGN SO THAT THE CUSTOMERS KNOW WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO GET. 
          YOU CERTAINLY DON'T WANT A CUSTOMER TO SIGN UP FOR SOMETHING AND THEN BE CONFUSED FIVE MONTHS LATER ABOUT WHY THEY SIGNED UP FOR IT AND WHY THEY'RE BUILT DOESN'T LOOK ANY DIFFERENT THAN IT WAS FIVE MONTHS PAST NEXT SLIDE. 
          OKAY. 
          SO I'M GOING TO SORT OF THE BENEFITS THAT WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT IN THESE EXAMPLES. 
          I'M NOT GOING TO READ THEM ALL HERE, BUT JUST AGAIN, BREAKING DOWN THAT THERE IS A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF VALUE TO ALL PARTIES, UM, AND DEMAND SIDE PROGRAMS, UTILITY COSTS TO SERVE, ESPECIALLY FOR OUR VERTICAL UTILITY, LIKE AUSTIN ENERGY, WHERE YOU HAVE A DEMAND SIDE GENERATION PORTFOLIO SUPPORTING THE, UH, SUPPLY SIDE PORTFOLIO, SUPPORTING THE DEMAND SIDE OF THE SYSTEM. 
          UM, IT IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT TO THINK ABOUT HOW THE UTILITY IS PASSING COST TO ITS CUSTOMERS AND WHAT CHANGES CAN BE MADE OVER TIME TO JUST CHANGE THE OVERALL COST OF SERVE LOAD. 
          I HEAR A LOT OF MISCONCEPTION ABOUT WHY RENEWABLE PROGRAMS ARE, AND AREN'T BENEFICIAL FOR ALL RATE PAIRS. 
          AND ONE OF THE THINGS I WANT TO POINT OUT TODAY, ESPECIALLY WITH THE INTRODUCTION OF STORAGE, UM, THE ABILITY TO DO YOUR VIRTUAL POWER PLANTS, THE ABILITY TO DO T AND D TRANSMISSION AND DISTRIBUTION COSTS REFER A DEFERRAL WITH RENEWABLE MICROGRIDS. 
          I JUST WANT TO BE ABLE TO POINT OUT THAT THESE ARE THE MOMENTS IN WHICH WE START TO SEE IN POLICY MAJOR SHIFTS IN OVERALL SAVINGS FOR HOW UTILITY SERVES ITS OWN CUSTOMERS, HOW IT HEDGES HIS EXPOSURE TO THE WHOLESALE MARKET BY HAVING DEMAND SIDE SOLUTIONS ON ITS SYSTEM AND HOW CUSTOMERS CAN NOT ONLY SAVE ON THEIR ENERGY BILLS, BUT THEY CAN BE PART OF A SOLUTION THEMSELVES BY GETTING MORE, MORE PATCHED, IF YOU WILL, FOR EXPORTING THEIR POWER BACK TO THE SYSTEM. 
          THESE ARE NOT JUST THEORETICAL MODELS. 
          THESE ARE PROGRAMS THAT ARE BEING RUN AROUND THE WORLD AND THERE SOME REALLY GOOD ONES BEING RUN RIGHT NOW, UM, ALONG THE EAST COAST AND THE WEST COAST THAT I WILL REFER TO TODAY. 
          NEXT SLIDE. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, DEMAND, RESPONSE, UM, VALUE PROPOSITION FOR DEMAND RESPONSE. 
          I THINK IT'S PRETTY WELL KNOWN. 
          THE THING I WANTED TO MENTION HERE IS THAT IN TERMS OF HOW YOU BUILD A PROGRAM, NOT EVERY CUSTOMER NEEDS TO HAVE A THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS OF SYSTEMS ON THEIR PROPERTY TO PARTICIPATE. 
          YOU CAN BUILD A DEMAND RESPONSE PROGRAM THAT REWARDS MICRO BEHAVIORAL RESPONSE TO MY THERMOSTAT, UM, ALL THE WAY UP TO REWARDING A CUSTOMER FOR STORAGE AND THEIR CALLED. 
          THE REAL QUESTION IS, DOES THE UTILITY HAVE THE TOOLS IT NEEDS TO ACTUALLY ADMINISTER ITS OWN VR PROGRAM OR TO WORK WITH ANOTHER AGGREGATOR TO CREATE THAT PROGRAM, AND THEN PERHAPS BE ABLE TO VALUE 
          [01:00:01]
THIS PROGRAM BENEFITS IN A WAY THAT ACTUALLY OFFSETS THE CAPACITY COSTS THAT UTILITY HAS FOR OTHERWISE SERVING THOSE SAME DEMAND NEEDS. 
          THOSE PEAK NEEDS FROM THE ENERGY SYSTEM. 
          IN THIS CASE, IT WILL BE FROM OUR COD NEXT SLIDE. 
          THIS IS AN EXAMPLE. 
          I'M NOT GOING TO GO THROUGH IT IN ANY DETAIL, BUT GO RIGHT BACK TO THE POINT THAT DEMAND RESPONSE PROGRAMS ARE HEDGES FOR UTILITIES. 
          IF YOU'RE ABLE TO HEDGE THE COST OF PROCURING POWER EMERGENCY, UM, BY CONTRACTING WITH A DEMAND RESPONSE PROVIDER, THAT IS A MODEL THAT IS ALREADY OUT THERE AND BEING PURSUED OR CONNECTED STUDENTS IN CALIFORNIA WITH A LOCAL COMMUNITY UTILITY. 
          AND I WOULD DEFINITELY ENCOURAGE YOU TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE STRUCTURE OF THAT PROGRAM AS A WAY OF FORMING RECOMMENDATIONS THAT COULD HELP AUSTIN ENERGY WITH ITS OWN NEEDS. 
          NEXT SLIDE. 
          HERE'S SOMETHING JONATHAN WAS TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF PROGRAMS, UM, THAT AUSTIN ENERGY COULD HAVE STORAGE. 
          I ALSO HEAR BEING SPOKEN ABOUT AS ADVANTAGE DEVICE, WHICH IS AN INTERESTING AND AN UNFORTUNATE WAY TO THINK ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT MEANS THAT THERE ISN'T A PROGRAM, BUT ACTUALLY VALUE STORAGE. 
          WHAT IT CAN DO IF YOU DON'T HAVE THESE PROGRAMS, THE STORAGE IS A VERY EXPENSIVE DEVICE TO HAVE ON YOUR HOME ENERGY SYSTEM. 
          BUT IF YOU HAVE THE PROGRAMS, THESE ARE SOME OF THE VALUES YOU ARE GETTING. 
          YOU'RE GETTING, OF COURSE THE INSURANCE VALUE. 
          EVERYONE TALKS ABOUT EVERYONE. 
          ELSE'S LIGHTS ARE OUT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD DURING THE STORM. 
          YOURS ARE NOT, THAT'S GREAT, BUT THAT'S ALSO JUST ONE VALUE. 
          THE DAILY VALUE OF STORAGE IS TO DO WHAT, EVERYTHING, WHAT, EVERYTHING, UM, WHAT EVERY, WHATEVER SOLAR WAS DOING FOR HEALTH, EXCEPT THAT YOU WERE NOW ALSO GETTING THE TIME VALUE OF STORING YOUR SOLAR ENERGY FOR CONSUMPTION AT A LATER TIME. 
          IN ADDITION TO THAT, BECAUSE STORAGE IS DYNAMIC, YOU'RE ABLE TO ADD PAYMENTS TO A UTILITY PROGRAM THAT REWARDS YOU FOR SHIFTING YOUR CONSUMPTION TO YOUR BATTERY POWER. 
          UM, DURING CRITICAL PEAK MOMENTS. 
          IN OTHER WORDS, UTILITIES CAN DESIGN RATE PROGRAMS THAT SAY, WE'LL CHARGE YOU 5 CENTS MORE FOR CRITICAL PEAKS, BUT THEN WE'LL PAY YOU A TON MORE MONEY. 
          UM, WHEN WE ARE IN AN OFF PEAK MODE AND YOU'RE REDUCING YOUR POWER. 
          AND FINALLY, ANOTHER IMPORTANT PART OF THESE PROGRAMS IS ACTUALLY BEING ABLE TO EXPORT ENERGY FROM YOUR STORAGE SYSTEMS TO THE GRID. 
          UM, ANOTHER MISCONCEPTION IS THAT HOW CAN I STORAGE FOR MYSELF FOR A BACKUP NEED IF I'M SENDING IT ALL BACK TO MARKET. 
          AND THE ANSWER THERE IS THAT BATTERIES ARE NOT BUILT JUST FOR YOUR TWO KILOWATTS OF CONSUMPTION. 
          AN AVERAGE HOME USUALLY HAS 10 KILOWATTS OR 13.5 KILOWATT HOURS OF BATTERIES ON THE SYSTEM, UM, ON THE HOME SYSTEM. 
          AND OUT OF THAT, YOU ARE GOING TO BE USING ANYWHERE BETWEEN 20 AND 30%, AND THEN YOU STILL HAVE THE REST OF THE BATTERY CAPACITY AND POWER CAPACITY AVAILABLE TO EXPORT TO PROVIDE SHORT TERM SERVICES, SR SERVICES AND LONGER TERM SERVICES LIKE ENERGY, NEXT SLIDE. 
          SO I'M RUNNING CLOSE TO THE TIME WHERE I SAID, I CHECKED MY OWN TIME, SO I WILL NOT BE SUPER FAST, BUT I DO WANT TO BE QUICK ABOUT, UM, JUST EXPLAINING SOME OF THESE EXAMPLES. 
          UM, SACRAMENTO MUNICIPAL UTILITY DISTRICT IS A PHENOMENAL EXAMPLE OF A EVOLVING AND INCREASINGLY VALUABLE SOLAR AND STORAGE PROGRAM. 
          SMART HAS GONE THROUGH A PRETTY GRAY, PRETTY GRAND EXERCISE OF TRYING TO MOVE ITSELF AWAY FROM NET ENERGY METERING, TO LOOK MORE CAREFULLY AT HOW THEY VALUE EVERY KILOWATT THAT COMES BACK FROM THE DEMAND SIDE OF THE SYSTEM AND COMPENSATED FAIRLY FOR ITS FULL VALUE. 
          THAT PROGRAM HAS RESULTED IN SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN PRETTY INCREDIBLE FOR THE INDUSTRY. 
          AND IT'S JUST CUTTING UP, UM, ENERGY THAT IS EXPORTED BACK FROM A HOME BATTERY, RECEIVES A CREDIT THAT DEVELOPED THAT REPRESENTS THE VALUE OF GHG EMISSIONS, GAS SAVINGS, TNG AVOIDANCE GENERATION. 
          I EAT. 
          WHAT WOULD THAT SAME KILOWATT HAVE COST IF IT KEEPS THE ELECTRIC GRID. 
          AND ON TOP OF THAT STORAGE INCENTIVE STACK, UM, THERE'S THAT $500 BASE INCENTIVE. 
          IF YOU'RE IN DUAL ENROLLED IN THEIR CRITICAL PEAK PROGRAM OR YOU'RE ENROLLED IN THEIR VIRTUAL POWER PLANT, I E YOU GIVE YOUR BATTERY UP IN TERMS OF CONTROL SO THAT THE UTILITY CAN DISPATCH THAT BATTERY FOR YOU AND HELP YOU OPTIMIZE YOUR OWN ENERGY USE FROM YOUR BATTERY. 
          YOU GET A $2,500 CREDIT. 
          THAT'S PRETTY INCREDIBLE, BUT IT ALSO DOES SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR ACCESSIBILITY OF THESE PROGRAMS, WHICH IS THAT IT REWARDS PARTICIPATION AT EVERY LEVEL. 
          YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO HAVE A BATTERY TO PARTICIPATE IN THESE PROGRAMS. THERE'S ANOTHER PORTION OF THIS PROGRAM THAT ALSO REWARDS CUSTOMERS WHO LIVE IN AN APARTMENT BUILDING WITH A COMMON SOLAR ROOF INSTALLATION, UM, AND JUST SEND SOME CREDITS BACK THAT ARE DIVIDED AMONGST THE WHOLE BUILDING AMONG ALL THE TENANTS, SIMPLY ON THE VALUE OF THE EXCESS SOLAR PRODUCTION AT AN EXPORT IT BACK TO THE GRID AND STORE BY THE UTILITY, AND THEN USE TO OFFSET THEIR OWN PEAK NEEDS. 
          UM, NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE, LET'S GO TO TWO. 
          THIS IS ANOTHER VIRTUAL POWER PLANT AND GREEN MOUNTAIN 
          [01:05:01]
POWER VERMONT, WHICH IS ALSO A VERTICAL UTILITY. 
          UM, NEXT SLIDE. 
          LET'S GO TO THE NEXT ONE. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, JUST WANTED TO REITERATE ANOTHER POINT HERE IS THAT WHEN WE LOOK AT COST TO SERVE CUSTOMERS, WE'RE LOOKING AT SHAVING THE SYSTEM. 
          SO EVEN IF YOU HAVE 200 CUSTOMERS ON FOR DISTRIBUTION PEERS, AND THOSE ARE THE ONLY CUSTOMERS THAT ARE GETTING THE DIRECT BILL SAVINGS FOR REDUCING THE COMMODITY COST OF POWER GMP, THIS UTILITY ENTIRE COST OF SERVING OFFICE CUSTOMERS HAS GONE DOWN SIGNIFICANTLY BECAUSE OF THEIR ABILITY TO HAVE SOME CUSTOMERS THAT HAVE STORAGE. 
          THE THING THAT I LOVE ABOUT THIS PROGRAM OR THIS TYPE OF TYPE OF PROGRAM IS THAT CUSTOMERS WHO BUY STORAGE ARE ESSENTIALLY SUPPORTING A SOCIALIZED REDUCTION OF COST TO THE WHOLE SYSTEM, WHICH IS SORT OF THE OPPOSITE OF HOW WE ENTERED INTO RENEWABLE TECHNOLOGY POLICY FOR RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS, WHERE IT WAS WELL ONLY SOME CUSTOMERS GET THE DEVICE. 
          THEREFORE ONLY THOSE CUSTOMERS GET THE BENEFITS. 
          THIS MODEL WHERE STORAGE IS PART OF THE SOLAR SOLUTION REALLY TURNS ALL OF THAT ON ITS HEAD, UM, AND HAS TREMENDOUSLY VALUABLE IMPACTS AND IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING A LOT OF UTILITIES ARE LOOKING AT AROUND THE COUNTRY AS THEY TRY TO EVOLVE AWAY FROM SOLAR ONLY, OR THAT METERING. 
          OKAY, NEXT SLIDE. 
          JUST, UM, ONE MORE ELEMENT I REALLY WANT TO FOCUS ON, AND THAT IS THAT HOUSING AUTHORITIES CAN BE IMPORTANT TO THESE SORTS OF OFFERS IN SOUTH AUSTRALIA, WHERE A TESLA IS INVESTING IN THE BIGGEST VPP IN THE WORLD. 
          UM, WE'RE GOING FOR 50,000 CUSTOMERS OR SYSTEMS ENROLLED IN THOUSAND MEGAWATTS OF BPP CAPACITY. 
          I IE RESIDENTIAL SITE CAPACITY, UM, IN THAT, AS A RESULT OF THAT PROGRAM, WE'RE ACTUALLY BEEN ABLE TO OFFER THROUGH OUR PARTNERING RETAILER, A LOWER RETAIL ENERGY RATE, EVEN TO HOUSING TENANTS WHO ARE NOT BATTERY CUSTOMERS. 
          SO THEY'RE STILL GETTING A 20% DISCOUNT ON THE DEFAULT MARKET OFFER AVAILABLE TO RETAIL CUSTOMERS IN SOUTH AUSTRALIA BECAUSE THEY'RE PART OF THIS PROGRAM, BUT BECAUSE FILMING, IF THEIR NEIGHBORS DO HAVE BATTERIES, UM, I THINK THAT'S INCREDIBLE. 
          AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE FUTURE REALLY IS FOR STORAGE. 
          UM, IN TERMS OF RESIDENTIAL ADOPTION AND ACCESSIBILITY. 
          UM, ONE MORE I, ONE MORE SLIDE. 
          LET'S JUST GO TO 13. 
          OKAY. 
          SO, UM, I'M GOING TO END MY FORMAL REMARKS WITH THIS SLIDE AND THEN TURN IT UP FOR QUESTIONS JUST TO BE RESPECTFUL OF EVERYONE'S TIME. 
          UM, ONE OF THE LAST PILLARS THAT THIS IS A GREAT EXAMPLE OF HIS UTILITY TECHNOLOGY APPROVALS. 
          UM, TEFILLAH IS PART OF THE PARTNERSHIP FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE SMART HOMES COMMUNITY AT EASTERN PARK, WHICH IS A PROCURE PROJECT. 
          AND WHAT HAS REALLY HELPED US WITH CREATING THE HUGE PROGRESS WE'VE SEEN JUST IN A FEW MONTHS, A COMMUNITY. 
          IF YOU'VE DRIVEN AROUND THERE USED TO BE NOTHING THERE FEW MONTHS AGO. 
          NOW THERE'S A LOT, UM, IS GETTING TECHNOLOGY APPROVALS, AND THOSE ARE DRIVEN BY POLICY FOR STARTERS, UM, AND THE BLUEBONNET, WE ARE ABLE TO INSTALL POWERWALL PLUS, WHICH IS THE DEVICE YOU SEE ON THE LEFT. 
          IT HAS A SHARED INVERTER THAT SUPPORTS BOTH THE BATTERY AND THE ROOF. 
          IT IS THE NEXT GENERATION PRODUCT. 
          IT COSTS LESS THAN ATTEMPTING TO INSTALL BOTH SEPARATELY WITH THEIR OWN INVERTERS. 
          THERE'S LESS WIRING, THERE'S LESS CABLING. 
          IT'S FAR MORE EFFICIENT. 
          HOWEVER, THIS PRODUCT IS DESIGNED FOR A PROGRAM OR FOR A METERING SYSTEM THAT IS ABLE TO SEPARATE SOLAR PRODUCTION AND CONSUMPTION, UM, FROM WHAT THE BATTERY IS CONSUMING EITHER FROM SOLAR OR FROM THE GRID, THAT PROGRAM DOESN'T EXIST IN US IN ENERGY. 
          SO WE CAN'T EVEN INSTALL THIS PARTICULAR PRODUCT IN AUSTIN. 
          UM, AT THIS TIME ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE IS ANOTHER DEVICE. 
          WE CAN INSTALL AN AUSTIN ENERGY AND THAT'S THE TEST OF BACKUP SWITCH, THE BACKUP SWITCHES, ESSENTIALLY THE RING THAT FACILITATES WHOLE-HOG BACKUP. 
          IF THE UTILITY POWER IS LOST TO YOUR HOME. 
          IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU JUST HAVE SOLAR ON YOUR HOME, YOU DON'T HAVE A BATTERY. 
          IF THERE'S A POWER OUTAGE, YOU CAN NOT CONTINUE RUNNING YOUR SOLAR FACILITY ON YOUR, UH, ON YOUR ROOF NOW, JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN GET REVERSE POWER SURGES, IT'S AN INCREDIBLY UNSAFE CONDITION. 
          UM, AND THERE'S NO WAY TO ESSENTIALLY ISLAND YOUR SOLAR FROM YOUR DE ENERGIZE UTILITY LINE, WHICH IS THE STAPLE LINE IS IN, DURING AN OUTAGE. 
          THE BACKUP SWITCH IS BASICALLY THE MODERN, LOW-COST NO TIME TO INSTALL VERSION OF THE CONTROLLER BOX. 
          YOU USUALLY SEE ON THE SIDE OF A HOME, AS WELL AS ALL THE ADDITIONAL BOXES YOU SEE TO REWIRE ALL THE LOADS IN THE HOME IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO ISOLATE IT DURING AN OUTAGE. 
          UM, BLUEBONNET HAS GONE THROUGH A REALLY AGGRESSIVE APPROVAL REVIEW AND APPROVAL SCHEDULE FOR THE SWITCH. 
          UM, IT'S GONE THROUGH THE UL TESTING. 
          IT'S GONE THROUGH SAFETY TESTING, ALL THAT FUN STUFF. 
          UM, AND IT'S ONE OF THE MANY UTILITIES WHERE, BECAUSE WE'VE ADOPTED THE DEVICE, WE'RE ABLE TO DO A BATTERY AND SOLAR INSTALL AND ISOLATION. 
          UM, IN UNDER ONE HOUR, 
          [01:10:01]
THE TYPICAL TIMELINE FOR THIS KIND OF PROJECT IS OVER OVER A DAY. 
          IT'S USUALLY 14 TO 25 HOURS, UM, DEPENDING ON THE TYPE OF PANELING AND THE TYPE OF, UM, FOAM YOU'RE ON. 
          SO WE'VE SEEN BOTH OF THESE DEVICES GO THROUGH APPROVALS VERY QUICKLY. 
          THAT HAS BEEN OF TREMENDOUS VALUE TO OUR CUSTOMERS, AS WELL AS TO DEVELOPMENTS LIKE THIS ONE, WHICH ARE GOING TO BE FRANKLY, THE FUTURE OF SUSTAINABLE ENERGY ON THE RESI SIDE. 
          UM, SO WITH THAT, I'M GOING TO END MY FORMAL REMARKS AND OPEN IT UP FOR QUESTIONS. 
          THANK YOU. 
          YOUR WISH. 
          YOU REALLY APPRECIATE, UH, THE PRESENTATION, UH, COMMISSIONERS, ANY QUESTIONS? WELL FIRST, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT PRESENTATION. 
          IT'S FASCINATING. 
          UM, I WAS REALLY INTERESTED IN, UM, THE DEMAND RESPONSE PROVIDER CONCEPT AND CURIOUS ABOUT WHETHER, YOU KNOW, IN ORDER TO IMPLEMENT SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WHETHER YOU NEED CHANGES TO MARGARET RULES OR PROTOCOLS, OR IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT CAN BE IMPLEMENTED WITHOUT CHANGES LIKE THAT, ARUSHI YOU'RE ON MUTE. 
          SORRY, LET'S GO TO SLIDE 23 FOR A SECOND. 
          AND I CAN TALK ABOUT THAT. 
          THERE YOU GO. 
          THANK YOU. 
          YES. 
          SO, UM, I HAD A POINT IN HERE, THANK YOU FOR BRINGING UP. 
          UM, THE RESILIENCY PROGRAMS ARE EASIER TO IMPLEMENT IN MUNIES AND CO-OPS WITHOUT RECOVER FARMS. WHY IS THAT IT'S BECAUSE YOUR MUNICIPAL OR CO-OP ENTITY OR YOUR KNOWING OR CAUGHT, RIGHT. 
          YOU'RE NON OFTEN ENTITY. 
          THAT'S WHAT THE SHORT FORM IS. 
          IT'S NOT A GREAT ACRONYM, BUT THAT'S WHAT IT IS. 
          UM, IS YOUR LOAD SERVING ENTITY IS ALSO THE OPERATOR FOR THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM AND OWNS THE RELATIONSHIP WITH A CUSTOMER UNDER STATE LAW FOR BUYING AND SELLING ALL POWER AND RELATED SERVICES. 
          SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, UM, MANY OF THE, KIND OF THE TARIFF OR POLITICAL CHANGES THAT ARE REQUIRED AT ERCOT FOR A CUSTOMER IN A COMPETITIVE RETAIL AREA, TO BE ABLE TO CONTRACT WITH THEIR REP, THEIR RETAIL ENERGY PROVIDER FOR THE ENERGY COMMODITY, AND THEN ALSO BE ABLE TO ADD OTHER PRODUCTS ON TOP OF THAT. 
          LIKE, I WANT TO BE PAID, YOU KNOW, 2 CENTS OR 0.50 CENTS FOR EVERY KILOWATT HOUR. 
          I SHIFT IN MY CONSUMPTION BEHAVIOR. 
          DEVELOPING THOSE PRODUCTS REQUIRES A LOT OF SYSTEM CHANGES ON OUR CUT SIDE BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO MAKE THEM FOR EVERY SINGLE LOAD SERVING ENTITY OR EVERY REP THAT'S OUT THERE THAT THAT CUSTOMER COULD HAVE. 
          SO I'M SITTING IN MY HOME AND ONE DAY I HAVE REP ONE AS MY PROVIDER FOR THOSE AGGREGATED VR SERVICES. 
          AND THEN I CHANGED MY MIND AND CHOOSE A DIFFERENT PROVIDER THE NEXT DAY. 
          THAT IS A TREMENDOUS IMPACT ON THE MARKET SIDE. 
          UM, THAT IS JUST QUITE QUICKLY, I THINK IT'S MIND BOGGLING FOR, UM, SOME OF THE INFRASTRUCTURAL KIND OF IMPLICATIONS THAT HAS FOR CAUGHT SYSTEMS. SO THAT BEING SAID, UM, THE AUSTIN ENERGY, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE SERVED BY ANYBODY WHO IS IN AUSTIN ENERGY. 
          UM, IF YOU'RE IN BLUEBONNET, YOU'RE GOING TO CRANE TO BE SERVED BY ANYBODY ELSE EITHER. 
          UM, SO IT'S REALLY UP TO, UM, THE UTILITY AT THAT POINT TO ASCERTAIN WHETHER THEY CAN CONTRACT WITH THESE PROVIDERS. 
          CERTAINLY MANY OF THEM HAVE ENTERED THE TEXAS RETAIL MARKETS SINCE THE STORM, UM, AND COME UP WITH THOSE PROGRAMS. UM, AND IN MY PRESENTATION, WHICH DEFINITELY YOU CAN TAKE A DEEPER LOOK INTO. 
          I ACTUALLY ONLY USED EXAMPLES OF VPP AND DEMAND RESPONSE PROGRAMS THAT ARE BEING ADMINISTERED IN VERTICAL MEANY OR CO-OP OR COMMUNITY UTILITY AREAS AROUND THE COUNTRY. 
          CAUSE I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT POINT THAT YOU'RE SEEING A LOT OF SUCCESS IN THE AREAS WHERE THERE IS A LOT MORE INDEPENDENCE FROM RTO OPERATIONS IN TARIFFS TO CREATE THESE PROGRAMS. I APPRECIATE IF I CAN, IF I CAN JUMP IN REAL QUICK THAT JUST BECAUSE THIS WAS, THIS IS THE PART THAT'S NEAR AND DEAR TO ME, SHE SAID, SHE'S, BY THE WAY, MY NAME'S DAWN WHALEY. 
          AND I'M THE PRESIDENT OF, UM, CONNECT HERE IN TEXAS. 
          AND AS YOU SAW ON ONE OF THE SLIDES, WE DO DEMAND RESPONSE IN CALIFORNIA RIGHT NOW, UH, AS AN ADJUNCT, WE'RE NOT A COMMODITY SUPPLIER, THE REASON WE'RE IN TEXAS AND FOR ALL THE REASONS SHE JUST ARTICULATED IN THE COMPETITIVE PARTS OF THE STATE, WHERE YOU HAVE A RETAILER THAT YOU SELECT FROM. 
          AND THEN IF YOU WANTED TO HAVE DEMAND RESPONSE, THERE'D BE ALL SORTS OF SYSTEM CHANGES TO TRY TO OVERLAY THAT IF THEY WERE TWO DIFFERENT ENTITIES, WHAT WE'RE DOING, THAT'S THE ONLY THING BEING LIKE IT THAT'S LIKE IT IN THE STATE IS WE'RE OFFERING THE COMMODITY SUPPLY AND THEN WE PAY OUR CUSTOMER WE'RE BEHAVIORAL RESPONSE. 
          AND SO, UH, WE INCENTIVIZE THEM TO SHED LOADS DURING TIMES OF PEAK AND WHAT WE'VE FOUND. 
          UM, WE HAVE 180,000 CUSTOMERS IN CALIFORNIA THAT EQUATES TO ABOUT 160 MEGAWATT VIRTUAL POWER PLANT. 
          UH, BUT WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN TEXAS IS THAT THE BASELINES, BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF AIR CONDITIONING, THE BASELINES IN TEXAS ARE ANYWHERE FROM 
          [01:15:01]
TWO TO THREE TIMES WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN CALIFORNIA. 
          AND THEREFORE THE REDUCTION CAPABILITIES ARE TWO TO THREE TIMES THE SAME SIZE. 
          UH, AND YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS THAT GOES, WE, IF YOU WANT THAT TECHNOLOGY, WE CAN DO THAT RIGHT NOW FOR AUSTIN ENERGY TO THAT, THAT, THAT SAME TECHNICAL BACKGROUND OR, UH, BACKEND WE CAN BRING RIGHT NOW TO EMPOWER THAT SORT OF REDUCTIONS FOR YOU GUYS, ARUSHI WHAT'S WHAT HAS BEEN, UH, BLUE ON ITS KIND OF REACTION TO THIS. 
          AND IS IT, I MEAN, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT, THAT YOU GUYS KIND OF HAVE APPROACHED THEM ABOUT IMPLEMENTING? I MEAN, I'M JUST CURIOUS HOW THESE PROGRAMS GET STARTED. 
          YEAH. 
          UM, I THINK THAT PROGRAMS ARE PRIMARILY THE PRODUCT OF CUSTOMER INTEREST. 
          SO IF WE KNOW, JUST SAY AFTER THE FEBRUARY STORM, I THINK THAT TESLA EARNINGS REPORT THAT CAME OUT AT ABOUT THE INVESTOR DECK SAID THAT, UM, POWERWALL DEMAND IN TEXAS HAS GROWN 10 X SINCE THE STORM. 
          UM, AND SO THEN IT COMES BACK TO US AS THE POLICY TEAM FOR TESLA TO FIGURE OUT LIKE, OKAY, LIKE, THAT'S NICE, BUT HOW DO YOU ACTUALLY CREATE A VALUABLE PROGRAM OUT OF, YOU KNOW, 5,000 NEW POWER WALL BATTERIES ON THE SYSTEM? UM, SO WE TYPICALLY WILL GET A LOT OF INTEREST FROM CUSTOMERS AND THEN WE'LL REACH OUT TO THE LOCAL UTILITIES IF IT'S A, UM, NON-COMPETITIVE AREA OR WE'LL REACH OUT TO, UM, A REGULATORY ENTITY OR A STAKEHOLDER PROCESS IN THE COMPETITIVE AREAS AND SAY LIKE, WELL, WE HAVE X DEMAND IN YOUR REGION. 
          YOU KNOW, WE WANNA BE ABLE TO SERVE THAT DEMAND, BUT THERE'S OTHER STUFF THAT YOU COULD DO THAT WILL CREATE MORE VALUE FOR EVERY BATTERY ON THE SYSTEM. 
          THESE ARE WHAT THOSE VALUES LOOK LIKE. 
          AND THEN WE WILL TAKE THAT INFORMATION BACK AND THEN DECIDE HOW WE SCOPE AN OFFER, YOU KNOW, HOW WE PRICE IT OUT FOR US IN TERMS OF THE ECONOMICS OF WHY WE WOULD PUT THE NEXT POWERWALL IN THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT OR IN A DIFFERENT CUSTOMER PROJECT. 
          UM, AND JUST KIND OF GO FROM THERE. 
          IT'S VERY MUCH IT'S EVERYTHING STARTS WITH WHAT THE CUSTOMERS WANT. 
          UM, AND WITH ANOTHER ELEMENT TO THIS, AS I MENTIONED IN SOUTH AUSTRALIA, WE HAD MULTIPLE GRANTS. 
          IT WAS JUST CRAZY. 
          UM, HOW WELL THIS TURNED OUT MULTIPLE GRANTS COMING FROM DIFFERENT AGENCIES THAT WERE DRIVEN BY THE BELIEF, WHICH IS ACCURATE THAT THE VIRTUAL POWER PLANT MODEL IS THE ECONOMICALLY DRIVEN TOOL FOR MAKING SOLAR AND STORAGE. 
          UM, A REALITY ON THE SYSTEM IN A REALITY FOR RENEWABLE GOALS. 
          SO IN SOUTH AUSTRALIA, YOU HAD THE HOUSING AUTHORITY INVOLVED, YOU HAD THE STATE'S RENEWABLE ENERGY AGENCY INVOLVED, YOU HAD PRIVATE GRANTS INVOLVED, YOU HAD LEGISLATED GRANTS, LIKE EVERYTHING KIND OF WORKING TOGETHER TO CREATE THIS MODEL WHERE THERE'S A ZERO UPFRONT COST FOR THE CUSTOMERS TO GET THE STORAGE SYSTEMS. UM, AND THAT'S, WHAT'S DRIVING THE GROWTH OF THAT POWER PLANT. 
          UM, AND IN THE BLUEBONNET CASE, WE ALREADY HAVE OTHER PARTNERSHIPS GOING ON THE FLIP ON IT BECAUSE WE HAVE, UM, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A FACTORY PROJECT BEING BUILT IN BLUEBONNET TERRA SERVICE TERRITORY. 
          WE HAVE BROOKFIELD COMING UP WITH THE EASTERN PARK DEVELOPMENT. 
          UM, AND, AND THEN IN AUSTIN, JUST GENERALLY WE HAVE TREMENDOUS DEMAND FOR THE PRODUCT AND IT'S COME DOWN TO LIKE, WELL, YOU KNOW, WE NOTICED WE DON'T WANT THIS TO JUST BE A THING WHERE PEOPLE BUY POWERWALLS BECAUSE OF AN OUTAGE. 
          YOU BUY A POWER WALL BECAUSE YOU ARE PART OF A PROGRAM THAT REWARDS YOUR USAGE OF STORAGE. 
          AND BECAUSE THERE IS TREMENDOUS VALUE IN CAPITAL COST AND LOAD SERVING COST FOR THE UTILITY THAT IS OUT THERE TO BE CAPTURED AND THERE'S GHD REDUCTIONS VALUE. 
          UM, SO NOW IT'S BECOME SORT OF OUR IMPETUS TO GO OUT AND ACTIVELY ADVOCATE FOR THOSE PROGRAMS SUPPORTED BY THE WORK THAT A LOT OF HORRIFIC UTILITIES HAVE DONE AROUND THE COUNTRY. 
          UM, JUST OPEN THE DOOR. 
          THANK YOU, COMMISSIONERS. 
          UH, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? ALL RIGHT. 
          ARUSHI AND COLLEAGUES. 
          I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU GUYS BEING HERE. 
          THIS HAS BEEN A GREAT PRESENTATION AND WE'LL, WE'LL FOLLOW UP IF WE HAVE, UH, ANY, ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS, BUT THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING. 
          GREAT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANKS SO MUCH. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          UH, NEXT UP ON THE AGENDA 
          [5. Discussion and possible action regarding forming a Fayette Power Plant Resource Plan
Working Group jointly with the EUC. (Sponsors: Blackburn; Chavarria)]
DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING FORMING A FAYETTE POWER PLANT RESOURCE PLAN WORKING GROUP JOINTLY WITH THE EUC. 
          UM, I WILL NOTE THAT THAT, UH, RESOLUTION, UH, DID PASS THE AUC LAST WEEK. 
          UM, JUST BEFORE WE START, THESE NEXT THREE ITEMS ARE, UH, ALL, UH, RESOLUTIONS. 
          I WANTED TO KIND OF TALK THROUGH THE PROCEDURE, HOW WE'RE GOING TO HANDLE THESE, UM, FIRST, JUST SO EVERYONE KNOWS HOW THIS WILL WORK. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          SO FIRST UP, WHAT I'M GOING TO DO IS I'M GOING TO ASK, UM, IF THERE'S, UH, EMOTIONAL ON THE TABLE, UM, THE RESOLUTIONS YOU GUYS HAVE ALL RECEIVED, 
          [01:20:02]
UH, PRIOR TO THIS MEETING. 
          UM, SO WHEN I ASK IT, IS THERE A MOTION ON TABLE? UH, SOMEONE PRESUMABLY ONE OF THE SPONSORS WILL MAKE A MOTION TO ADOPT THE RESOLUTION, UH, UH, THAT, THAT, UH, IS IN QUESTION. 
          UM, AT THAT POINT WE WILL OPEN THE FLOOR FOR DISCUSSION, UH, ON THE RESOLUTION. 
          UM, IF ANYONE HAS ANY, UH, PROPOSED CHANGES THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE, UM, YOU MAY THEN MAKE A MOTION, UH, FOR YOUR CHANGE. 
          UH, THEN WE'LL DISCUSS, UH, THAT PARTICULAR CHANGE AND EVENTUALLY TAKE A VOTE ON, UH, THAT CHANGE. 
          UM, IF THE VOTE PASSES, THE CHANGE GETS IMPLEMENTED, IF IT DOESN'T THE, THE CHANGE DOES NOT, ONCE WE'VE GONE THROUGH EVERYONE'S SUGGESTIONS FOR CHANGES TO THE RESOLUTION, THEN WE WILL TAKE A VOTE ON THE RESOLUTION ITSELF AS A WHOLE, UH, AS, AS AMENDED, IF IT HAS BEEN AMENDED, UM, A NOTE ON THE VOTING, UH, TO PASS A RESOLUTION, WE DO NEED A SIX, UH, SO THAT, UH, HAS TO BE, WE HAVE A QUORUM. 
          SO SIX VOTES, UH, AFFIRMATIVE, UH, FOR A RESOLUTION TO PASS. 
          IT IS NOT A MAJORITY RULE IN THIS CASE. 
          UM, A FIVE TO ONE VOTE, FOR EXAMPLE, WOULD NOT PASS A RESOLUTION. 
          UH, THERE, THERE, YOU HAVE TO BE A SIX VOTES, UM, FOR THE CHANGES TO THE RESOLUTION, THOSE ARE JUST A MAJORITY VOTE. 
          SO I THINK THAT TAKES CARE OF THE PROCEDURAL STUFF. 
          SO ITEM FIVE IS, UH, THERE A MOTION ON THE TABLE. 
          I'LL MOVE FOR PASSAGE OF THE RESOLUTION. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          UH, COMMISSIONER CHEVERIA MOVES TO PASS THE RESOLUTION ON FORMING A, UH, A JOINT WORKING GROUP WITH THE UC ON THE FAYETTE POWER PLANT. 
          UH, WE, UH, WE'LL NOW OPEN THIS TOPIC FOR DISCUSSION. 
          UM, I WOULD ASK, UH, TO START GOING TO SHARE, IF YOU COULD KIND OF GIVE US AN OVERVIEW OF THE RESOLUTION AND, UH, YOUR, UH, YOUR TAKE ON IT. 
          WELL, I DON'T KNOW THAT I'M PREPARED TO SUMMARIZE IT, HOPEFULLY EVERYBODY'S REVIEWED IT, BUT I, YOU KNOW, AT ITS CORE IT'S TO CREATE A WORKING GROUP, UM, TO WORK COLLABORATIVELY, TO COME UP WITH SOME RESOLUTIONS TO THE FAILURE, TO CLOSE THE FAYETTE POWER PLANT. 
          UM, I THINK SOME OF THE PROPOSES PROPOSALS IN THE RESOLUTION ARE, UH, PERHAPS OPERATING A VIRTUAL, UH, VIRTUAL SHUTDOWN OF THE POWER PLANT, UM, PERHAPS FINDING, UM, SOLAR OR OTHER RESOURCES THAT WOULD REPLACE, UM, THE FED POWER PLANT. 
          AND WE WOULD WORK WITH, UM, THE EUC IN THAT WORKING GROUP. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          SOUNDS GOOD. 
          SO, UH, WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO NOW, IF ANYONE HAS COMMENTS OR CHANGES, UM, CLEARLY THIS IS IN RESPONSE TO, YOU KNOW, THE AUSTIN ENERGY FOLKS WE HAD EARLIER. 
          UM, AS I MENTIONED, EEC HAS ALREADY PASSED THE RESOLUTION, UH, AS IT WAS WRITTEN AND THE DISTRIBUTION. 
          UH, HOWEVER, OF COURSE, WE'RE NOT BOUND BY THAT. 
          UH, SO I SAID THAT I'LL PAUSE ANY COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION. 
          UH, I HAVE COUPLE OF QUESTIONS, MAYBE COMMENTS, UM, ON THE PARAGRAPH FOUR, IT TALKS ABOUT VIRTUAL RETIREMENT. 
          MAYBE SOMEBODY CAN EXPLAIN WHAT THAT MEANS, WHERE EVERYBODY GOES. 
          YEAH, I, SO I THINK THAT REALLY GETS TO THAT CONCEPT OF, YOU KNOW, I'VE KIND OF ASKED THEM SOME QUESTIONS ON, WE HAVE THIS, YOU KNOW, REACH PROGRAM WHERE WE'RE ARTIFICIALLY ADDING, UM, A COST TO THE BID PRICE. 
          AND SO THERE IS A POINT WHERE, UH, YOU KNOW, IF THE UNIT IS TECHNICALLY STILL IN SERVICE, BUT YOUR BID PRICE IS SO HIGH THAT IT NEVER GETS DISPATCHED. 
          IT IS EFFECTIVELY RETIRED. 
          I THINK THAT'S REALLY WHAT THE LANGUAGE IS TRYING TO GET OUT THERE THAT WELL, WHILE YOU HAVE A WORKING POWER PLANT, UH, IT DOESN'T EVER RUN BECAUSE THE, THE BID THAT'S BEING BUILT INTO THE ERCOT SYSTEM IS, IS, UH, ABOVE THE THRESHOLD. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          AND I'M ON A PARAGRAPH PAGE WHERE IT SAYS CONTINUED NEGOTIATION WITH LCRA. 
          UM, THERE ARE ACTUALLY THREE DATES THERE YOU DIDN'T, UH, LESS BY THE END OF 20, 22 OR ANOTHER DATE IN THE FUTURE, SUCH AS 23 AND 24. 
          SO MY UNDERSTANDING IS BASED ON WHAT I'VE READ SO FAR FOR SEVERAL YEARS, ALL OF A SUDDEN ANGIE AND LCRA, UH, I'VE BEEN TALKING AND THEY HAVEN'T REALLY GOTTEN ANYWHERE. 
          UM, AND SO WE'RE SAYING THAT, UH, LET'S TRY TO DO THIS BY THE END OF 2022, BUT THAT REALLY DOESN'T LEAVE MUCH TIME. 
          [01:25:01]
UM, WHICH MEAN THAT WITHIN THREE OR FOUR MONTHS FROM NOW, THEY HAVE TO COME TO SOME KIND OF AGREEMENT, AS YOU ALL KNOW, ANYTHING THAT GOES TO THE COUNCIL OR LCR LCR IS GOING TO TAKE SIX MONTHS AFTER EVERYBODY COMES TO SOME KIND OF AGREEMENT. 
          SO I'M JUST WONDERING WHETHER THOSE DATES, WHETHER WE NEED TO HAVE ONE DATE AND SAY, I CAN, BY THIS DATE, WE NEED TO COME TO SOME KIND OF CONCLUSION. 
          AND, UM, YOU KNOW, IF NOT WHAT HAPPENS. 
          YEAH. 
          I MEAN THAT PARTICULAR DATE, THE 2022 DATE THAT THAT'S REALLY BASED ON, UM, AUSTIN ENERGY IN THE, UH, IN THE CLIMATE EQUITY PLAN, THEY WERE PLANNING TO RETIRE THAT THOSE TWO UNITS BY THAT DATE, ANYWAYS, THAT'S KIND OF WHERE THAT COMES FROM. 
          UM, I THINK THE CONCERN, YOU KNOW, WITH THE NEW NEWS IS THAT THAT DATE PROBABLY IS GONNA, IT LOOKS LIKE IT MIGHT GET STRETCHED OUT. 
          UH, SO THAT'S REALLY WHERE THE GENESIS OF THOSE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE FUTURE YEARS ARE, ARE COMING FROM. 
          OKAY. 
          COMMISSIONER HARMON. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UM, CAN YOU GUYS REMIND US OF THE PROCESS OR THE RULES AROUND A WORKING GROUP SUBCOMMITTEE FOR THE RMC? I KNOW IT HAS TO BE LESS THAN QUORUM, OTHERWISE IT WOULD BE CONSIDERED AN RMC MEETING. 
          DO WE, IS THERE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF COMMISSIONERS THAT MUST ATTEND AND HOW DO WE DECIDE? YEAH. 
          UM, GREAT QUESTION. 
          UH, SO TH THIS HAS, UH, THE, THE WORKING GROUP AT THE EUC, WHICH, YOU KNOW, FOR FOLKS THAT MAY NOT KNOW ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION, THIS IS A SIMILAR COMMISSION TO OURS THAT PRIMARILY DEALS WITH, WITH AUSTIN ENERGY. 
          UM, WE, WE DEAL IN A LOT OF OVERLAPPING TOPICS. 
          SO THEY HAVE CREATED A WORKING GROUP ON THIS SPECIFIC TOPIC. 
          UM, AS YOU MENTIONED, IT, IT IS NOT, UH, A WORKING GROUP IS NOT AN OFFICIAL, UH, MEETING OF A COMMISSION, WHICH MEANS THAT THERE CANNOT BE A QUORUM. 
          SO FOR US, THAT'S SIX MEMBERS. 
          SO, UH, THE WORKING GROUP WOULD BE LIMITED TO FIVE MEMBERS. 
          UH, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE, HOW DO WE CHOOSE THOSE? UM, WE WOULD START BY, BY TAKING VOLUNTEERS THAT YOU SEE A WORKING GROUP HAS FIVE MEMBERS, SO THAT THE MAXIMUM AMOUNT, UM, IF WE HAVE MORE THAN FIVE VOLUNTEERS, WELL, WE'LL, WE'LL, WE'LL, WE'LL SEE, WE'LL CROSS THAT BRIDGE WHEN WE COME TO IT. 
          DOES THAT ANSWER THAT? THANK YOU. 
          UH, THANKS FOR THIS, UH, JUST THIS ISSUE OF THE VIRTUAL RETIREMENT. 
          UH, I DON'T SEE THAT IN THE PRESS RELEASE AND IT JUST, IT FEELS LIKE THAT'S ACTUALLY TEND TO WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO WORK TOWARDS. 
          SO I'M WONDERING IF WE CAN REMOVE THAT FROM THAT FOURTH PARAGRAPH. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          SO IF YOU'RE ASKING TO REMOVE IT, THE PROCESSES, YOU MAKE EMOTION TO THAT EFFECT, WE WILL THEN TAKE A VOTE OR A DISCUSS AND THEN EVENTUALLY TAKE A VOTE ON THAT. 
          SURE. 
          I'LL MAKE THE MOTION. 
          I'M JUST CURIOUS IF THAT IS AMENABLE TO YOU. 
          UH, I, I MEAN, PERSONALLY, UH, YOU KNOW, THIS IS KIND OF RELATED TO MY QUESTIONS TO PAT EARLIER. 
          UH, I FEEL LIKE THAT IT WOULD PROBABLY IS A STRATEGY THAT CAN BE, UH, IMPLEMENTED IN THE, UH, DISPATCH OF THE UNIT THAT RESULTS IN A, UH, A VIRTUAL SHUTDOWN OF THE UNIT, EVEN IF IT IS OPERATIONALLY STILL AVAILABLE IN THEORY. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO I ACTUALLY, I, I ACTUALLY LIKED THAT SOLUTION. 
          OH YEAH, NO, I AGREE. 
          UH, IT JUST IS SAYING THAT THAT HAS BEEN, SEEMS UNREASONABLE. 
          RIGHT? I'M LOOKING, I'M LOOKING AT PARAGRAPH FOUR, NOT, NOT DONE BELOW. 
          YOU'RE SAYING THAT YOU'RE, THAT AUSTIN ENERGY HAS NOT DEEMED THAT REASONABLE, THE VIRTUAL RETIREMENT. 
          THIS IS SAYING THAT THEY'VE FAILED TO DO A VIRTUAL RETIREMENT, AND I DON'T SEE THAT IN THEIR PRESS RELEASE. 
          I DIDN'T HEAR THAT IN A PRESENTATION. 
          IT SOUNDED MORE LIKE THAT WAS SORT OF WHAT THEY WERE WORKING TOWARDS. 
          SO IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S ALSO WHAT, YOU'RE JUST NOT SURE THIS IS DOING WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE. 
          OKAY. 
          BUT ARE YOU SAYING IT, IT ALMOST READS AS THOUGH THAT WAS PART OF WHAT AUSTIN ENERGY ANNOUNCED IS THAT THEY'D BEEN UNABLE TO REACH AN AGREEMENT FOR A VIRTUAL RETIREMENT AND THAT IS NOT WHAT HAD BEEN COMMUNICATED, CORRECT. 
          YEAH. 
          THAT, THAT DOES SEEM TO BE AT 
          [01:30:01]
CONFLICT WITH, UH, THE LANGUAGE YOU MENTIONED THE PARAGRAPH EIGHT. 
          YEAH. 
          THOSE TWO THINGS DO SEEM TO BE IN CONFLICT. 
          YEAH. 
          THE, I GUESS THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS I THINK WE'D HAVE TO ASK CYRUS WHAT HE INTENDED WHEN HE WROTE THAT. 
          BUT I, I SUSPECT THERE'S MAYBE SOME DIFFERENCES BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, AUSTIN ENERGY OWNS HALF OF TWO UNITS AND THERE WAS SOME TALK OF MAYBE, YOU KNOW, CONSOLIDATING THAT INTO ONE AND, YOU KNOW, KIND OF PLAYING AROUND WITH THE OWNERSHIP THERE. 
          I SUSPECT THAT'S MAYBE WHAT THAT REFERS TO. 
          YEAH. 
          I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE INTENTION, UH, WAS THERE. 
          UH, I'M JUST READING IT AND IT DOESN'T QUITE READ ACCURATELY. 
          THAT'S WHY I WAS MAKING HER SUGGESTION. 
          WOULD WE JUST BE MAKING THE CHANGES THAT WE COULD BE FACTUALLY CORRECT. 
          IS THAT, WOULD THAT BE, YEAH. 
          OKAY. 
          WELL, I, WE HAVEN'T OFFICIALLY HAD A MOTION, SO YES, I AM GOING TO MOVE THAT WE DELETE THE, IN THE FOURTH PARAGRAPH OR A VIRTUAL RETIREMENT, UH, TO THE END OF THAT SENTENCE, WE'RE JUST ALREADY ABOARD VIRTUAL RETIREMENT. 
          JUST THOSE WORDS. 
          YEAH, JUST THOSE WORDS. 
          OKAY. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          SO THE MOTION IS MADE BY COMMISSIONER WHITE TO DELETE FROM THE FOURTH PARAGRAPH OR A VIRTUAL RETIREMENTS. 
          UM, ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY COMMENTS, QUESTIONS, OR DISCUSSION, SORRY, ON THAT MOTION OR ON THE REGULATION? ONE, UH, THAT PARTICULAR THAT CHANGE, I MEAN, IT MIGHT NEED THE SLIGHT, LIKE GRAMMAR MASSAGE AFTERWARD, BUT I'M FINE WITH THAT. 
          THEY GET YOU, IF WE READ IT, THEN IT WOULD SAY, UM, HOW TO ASSURE RETIREMENT OF EITHER ONE UNIT FAYETTE OF THE APPROXIMATELY I GUESS. 
          UH, I THINK THAT MAYBE THAT IS FINE. 
          SORRY. 
          KIND OF READING OUT LOUD. 
          I THINK IT MAYBE HELPS HOW TO SHARE YOUR TIME AT EITHER ONE UNIT FAYETTE OF THE APPROXIMATELY 600 BY, YEAH. 
          I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT, WHAT, I MEAN WHEN IT, YOU KNOW, IT, IT KIND OF MAKES IT CHALLENGING BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY OWN PART OF TWO UNITS, BUT REALLY THERE'S A CHANCE THAT THEY COULD CONSULT HER. 
          THERE WAS A CHANCE THEY COULD CONSOLIDATE AND JUST RETIRE THE ONE UNIT SAME CAPACITY. 
          RIGHT. 
          I KIND OF AGREE THAT THAT WOULD STILL BE A PHYSICAL RETIREMENT, NOT A VIRTUAL ONE. 
          RIGHT. 
          YEAH. 
          OKAY. 
          SO, SO JUST THE SLIGHT EDIT WHAT YOU SAID, CABER. 
          UM, I THINK, UH, SO I THINK WE WOULD KEEP THE WORD OR IN THE STATE OR THE APPROXIMATELY 600 MEGAWATTS AND SO DELETE EVERYTHING BETWEEN R AND D. 
          DOES THAT SOUND RIGHT? UH, I THINK ACTUALLY IT SEEMS LIKE WHAT IF WE, THE, THE, THE, IT WAS EXPANDED TO SAY RETIREMENT OF DELETED THAT ENTIRE PHRASE TO VIRTUAL RETIREMENT. 
          SO THE APPROXIMATELY 600 MEGAWATTS OF COAL ON BY AUSTIN ENERGY. 
          SO THAT THOSE TWO OPTIONS ARE NOT EVEN PRESENTED ARE THOSE TWO KIND OF CONFUSING PHRASES. 
          YEAH, THAT, THAT SEEMS FINE. 
          TO ME. 
          THAT'S PROBABLY A LITTLE CLEANER. 
          HOW DOES THAT SUNDAY PAPER UNDERSTOOD IT? SO YOU'RE SAYING STARTING WITH THE COMMA DELETE UNTIL YOU GET TO THE WORD OWNED, UM, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, STARTING WITH THE THIRD SENTENCE, RETIREMENT, THE WORD RETIREMENT DELETE THE FIRST VERSION, THE FIRST INSTANCE OF RETIREMENT, START THE DELETION THERE AND END IT AFTER THE SECOND INSTANCE OF RETIREMENT. 
          YEP. 
          GESTION SUGGESTION. 
          HOW ABOUT IF WE JUST SAY FOR SURE, HOW TO ASSURE RETIREMENT OF AUSTIN ENERGY'S INTEREST IN, UM, THE FAYETTE POWER PLANT. 
          I MEAN, IT SEEMS TO GO INTO A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL THAN IT NEEDS TO, AND IF IT'S JUST, WE'RE JUST SAYING THEY'RE INTERESTED IN THE POWER PLANT, THEN IT'S RECOVERED, 
          [01:35:01]
RIGHT. 
          JUST THE WORDING AROUND EITHER ONE UNIT AT FAD IT'S KIND OF, YEAH. 
          LEAVE IT OPEN-ENDED. 
          YEAH. 
          UH, WELL, IT'S STILL SAY BY THE END OF 2022 THERE. 
          OKAY, COOL. 
          SO IF THAT WORKS FOR YOU, DOES THAT WORK FOR YOU? OKAY. 
          SO WHAT IS THE RE LET LET'S PRETEND LIKE WE DIDN'T HAVE, LET'S JUST HAVE A REVISED TO MY PREVIOUS MOTION, MAKE A NEW MOTION TO DELETE IN THE FOURTH PARAGRAPH, STARTING WITH, OH, EITHER THROUGH THE WORD RETIREMENT, ACTUALLY THROUGH THE WORD OF RIGHT. 
          OH, NO RETIREMENT. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO IF I'M STARTING WITH US, THEN WE'LL LEAVE THE SECOND OF SORRY. 
          YEAH. 
          OKAY. 
          DOES THAT, THAT MAKES SENSE TO YOU AS WELL. 
          OKAY. 
          YES, IT DOES. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          SO THE MOTION IS MADE TO FOURTH PARAGRAPH DELETE, UH, STARTING OF AN ENDING AFTER THE SECOND INSTANCE OF RETIREMENT. 
          ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THAT? ALL RIGHT. 
          LET'S TAKE A VOTE SHOW OF HANDS ALL IN FAVOR. 
          SAY, RAISE YOUR HAND THREE, FOUR. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          THAT'S UNANIMOUS. 
          SO THAT CHANGE IS MADE. 
          YOU WILL HEAR ME. 
          THIS IS KELLY. 
          GOTCHA. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          UH, SO THAT CHANGE IS ACCEPTED. 
          UH, SO NOW WE'LL GO BACK TO THE OVERALL MOTION. 
          UH, ANY FURTHER COMMENTS, SORRY, JUST ONE ADDITIONAL QUESTION. 
          UM, RELATED TO THE WORKING GROUP, THIS IS A JOINT WORKING GROUP WITH EUC OR R DO WE, ARE WE FORMING TWO SEPARATE WORKING GROUPS THAT WILL JOINTLY MEET AND WHERE I'M GOING WITH THIS IS ARE WE SETTING OURSELVES UP THAT THE RECOMMENDATIONS COMING FROM BOTH WORKING GROUPS ARE THE SAME, OR MAY WE ACT, WILL THE WORKING GROUPS BE ABLE TO PRESENT DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT RECOMMENDATIONS REPRESENTING EACH BODY, IF THAT IS THE RESULT OF THE WORKING GROUP? YES. 
          UH, ANY RESOLUTION OR ANY ACTION TAKEN BY THE RMC WILL BE OUT OF THE VOTE OF THE RMC. 
          SO, YOU KNOW, SIMILAR TO HOW WE DID THE CLIMATE PLAN OR THE GENERATION PLAN A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, UH, WE TOOK SEPARATE VOTES. 
          SO THAT'S HOW THAT WOULD WORK. 
          OKAY. 
          SO THE, THE RECOMMENDATIONS WOULD BE PRESENTED TO THE FULL RMC BY THE MEMBERS OF THE RMC WORKING GROUP, AND THEN THE ACTION WOULD BE TAKEN BY THE RMC. 
          THAT'S RIGHT. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU FOR THAT CLARIFICATION. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          FURTHER. 
          YES. 
          JUST TO, UM, UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS GOING ON, RIGHT. 
          YEAH, SURE. 
          SO, UH, ONCE THE WORKING GROUP GET TOGETHER RMC WORKING GROUP, RIGHT. 
          WITH A WORKING GROUP, IDEALLY WE'LL BE JOINED. 
          SO, UM, PROBABLY FOLKS FROM BOTH FROM BOTH, DO YOU MEAN THEY COME TO SOME CONCLUSION, SOME SOLUTION, THEN THE RMC GROUP OR COMMITTEE BRING THE INFORMATION HERE? AM I CORRECT? THAT'S RIGHT. 
          SO WE PASSED THAT AND THEN AFTER THAT, IT GOES TO THE COUNCIL AND OKAY. 
          YEAH, THERE, I DOUBT THERE WILL BE, WELL, WE'LL SEE IF THERE'S ANY COUNCIL ACTION. 
          EITHER BUTTON. 
          YEAH. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          UH, SEEING NO FURTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS ON THE ISSUE. 
          UH, LET'S TAKE A VOTE ALL IN FAVOR. 
          PLEASE RAISE YOUR HAND. 
          ALL RIGHT, MR. DAVIS, I SEE YOUR HAND UP. 
          UH, I'M SORRY. 
          I DIDN'T SEE THE SIDE ALL IN FAVOR. 
          PLEASE RAISE YOUR HAND. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          SO THE VOTE PASSES ON ANYONE TO EIGHT TO ZERO VOTES. 
          UH, THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED AS AMENDED. 
          UH, SO THEN THE NEXT QUESTION IS, UH, WHO WOULD LIKE TO SERVE ON THE WORKING GROUP? SO LET'S JUST START WITH A RAISE OF HANDS WHO WOULD LIKE TO SERVE ON THE WORKING GROUP. 
          WE'VE GOT ONE, TWO, WE'VE GOT FIVE SLOTS, TOTAL AND GLORY. 
          ANY ANYONE ELSE? NO ONE ELSE. 
          I WOULD LIKE TO RAISE MY HAND FOR THAT AS WELL. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          SO WE THAT'S WHO, UH, THE WORKING GROUP FROM THE RMC WILL CONSIST OF COMMISSIONER CHEVERIA FISHER, WHITES, MR. ANN GORY 
          [01:40:01]
AND COMMISSIONER BLACKBURN. 
          ARE WE ABLE TO ADD MEMBERS WHO AREN'T HERE? IF THEY LATER SHOW INTEREST? WE ARE. 
          OKAY. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          IN FACT, MANY OF THEM ARE, I JUST, IT OCCURRED TO ME AS I UNDERSTAND IT. 
          THE EUC ACTUALLY ADDED A MEMBER TO THEIR WORKING GROUP THAT WASN'T IN ATTENDANCE. 
          CAN I MAKE A QUICK COMMENT? UM, ALSO IF MY MEMORY SERVES CORRECTLY, UM, WORKING GROUPS ARE TECHNICALLY OPEN TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC AS WELL. 
          SO WE CAN INCLUDE OTHER FOLKS OUTSIDE OF BOTH COMMISSIONS. 
          IT'S JUST THAT WE HAD THEM, LIKE YOU WERE SAYING, WE DO HAVE THE QUORUM LIMIT FOR THE COMMISSION NUMBERS. 
          SO I JUST WANTED TO REMIND PEOPLE THAT YEAH, THAT THAT'S CORRECT. 
          WE JUST, WE, WE DO HAVE TO KEEP IT, UH, LESS THAN SIX MEMBERS OF THIS COMMISSION AT ANY MEETING OF THE WORKING GROUP. 
          AND SORRY, JUST TO CLARIFY, OH, OPEN TO OTHER MEMBERS TO JOIN THOSE MEETINGS, BUT NOT NECESSARILY PUBLIC MEETINGS. 
          RIGHT? LIKE AS THESE ARE, UH, IT WILL NOT BE POSTED AS A PUBLIC MEETING BECAUSE THERE WON'T BE A QUORUM, BUT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC MEANING OTHERS CAN JOIN ANY MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC AND JOIN AS FAR AS IN AUSTIN OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, ALL RIGHT. 
          NEXT TOPIC. 
          YES. 
          SO IT'S NOT A PUBLIC MEETING. 
          SO OUT IN THE PUBLIC KNOW TO, TO ATTEND WELL, WHEN I SAY NOT, IT'S NOT A PUBLIC MEETING UNDER THE KIND OF RULES FOR POSTING, UH, YOU KNOW, ON THE, ON THE WEBSITE. 
          I THINK WHAT SHANNON IS SAYING IS THAT WE CAN INVITE OTHER MEMBERS TO JOIN THE WORKING GROUP. 
          IT'S NOT THAT ANYBODY OFF THE STREET CAN SAY, HEY, I'M PART OF YOUR WORKING GROUP. 
          IT'S THAT WE CAN SAY, YOU KNOW, THAT WE WOULD LIKE PEOPLE WE CAN INVITE PEOPLE TO JOIN. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          ANY FURTHER COMMENTS ON THAT ITEM? ALL RIGHT. 
          SO LET'S MOVE ON 
          [6. Discussion and possible action regarding a resolution on the Texas Gas Service
Conservation Programs. (Sponsors: Stone; Harmon)]
TO ITEM SIX DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING A RESOLUTION ON THE TEXAS GAS SERVICE CONSERVATION PROGRAMS. UH, THAT RESOLUTION WAS ALSO DISTRIBUTED. 
          UH, IS THERE A MOTION ON THE TABLE, UH, COMMISSIONER STONE MOVES TO ADOPT THE RESOLUTION, UH, AS PRESENTED, UH, COMMISSIONER STONE OR COMMISSIONER HARMON? I WOULD FIRST INVITE COMMENTS FROM, UH, EITHER BOTH OF YOU ON, UH, ON THE RESOLUTION, THIS THING HERE. 
          UM, BASICALLY WHAT I HAVE LEARNED IN MY SHORT TIME HERE IS THAT, UH, TEXAS GAS IS IN THE BUSINESS OF SELLING GAS. 
          THAT'S THEIR PRIMARY JOB. 
          IF I GO TO A BURGER KING, I DON'T EXPECT THEM TO HAND OUT WEIGHTWATCHERS COUPONS. 
          AND I DON'T EXPECT THESE PEOPLE TO RUN A REASONABLE PROGRAM TO HELP US REDUCE OUR NATURAL GAS USAGE OVER THE LONG-TERM. 
          THE PROGRAM THAT THEY'VE HAD SO FAR HAS BEEN AN EFFECTIVE OF MEETING ITS STATED OBJECTIVES. 
          THERE'S NO NEUTRAL SCOREKEEPER, IT'S UNAUDITABLE FOR THE MOST PART. 
          AND THE FUNDING MECHANISM IS REGRESSIVE, AND WE SEEK TO CHANGE THIS PROGRAM AS A RESULT. 
          SO THANK YOU. 
          UM, SO I I'D CO-SPONSORED UM, THIS RESOLUTION ON OUR AGENDA, BECAUSE I THINK IT'S WORTHWHILE TO HAVE THIS DISCUSSION AT THE COMMISSION LEVEL RELATED TO THE COST EFFECTIVENESS OF THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAMS FOR TEXAS GAS SERVICES, THE GAS SERVICE. 
          I DO THINK IT'S DIRECTLY RELATED TO OUR PURVIEW AS A COMMISSION WITH REGARD TO RESOURCE EFFICIENT RESOURCE CONSERVATION. 
          UM, AND I THINK THAT THERE ARE MANY GOOD POINTS IN THE RESOLUTION THAT, UH, ARE WORTH BRINGING UP, BUT HERE AT THE COMMISSION LEVEL, THAT BEING SAID, I ALSO APPRECIATE AFTER SUBSEQUENT REFLECTION AND DISCUSSIONS WITH REGARD TO THE WAY THE RESOLUTIONS ARE DRAFTED, I'M NOT SURE THAT WE'VE HAD AMPLE TIME FOR, UM, CONSULTATION WITH CITY STAFF AND WITH TEXAS GAS SERVICE IN TERMS OF THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS. 
          UM, AND, AND IN SOME CASES I FEEL THAT IT'S WORTH, UH, ADDITIONAL EVALUATION ON, UH, HOW THE COST EFFECTIVENESS IS MEASURED. 
          UM, FOR EXAMPLE, THE CLAUSE, UH, RELATED TO AUSTIN ENERGY STAFF. 
          SO WHILE I AM IN FAVOR OF A DISCUSSION AT THE COMMISSION LEVEL RELATED TO COST-EFFECTIVENESS OF THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY REBATES, UM, I DO FEEL THAT THERE ARE SOME POINTS IN THIS, UH, RESOLUTION THAT WOULD BE WORTH ADDITIONAL DISCUSSION BY, BY THE COMMISSION OR A SUB SUB MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION. 
          AND SO IT WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO, UH, TO KEEP INTO THE DISCUSSION OPEN HERE. 
          [01:45:01]
AND ARE WE TALKING ABOUT BOTH AT THE SAME TIME, OR DO WE WANT TO LET'S TAKE ONE AT A TIME. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, THAT BEING SAID, I ALSO W ONE FINAL COMMENT BEFORE WE OPEN IT UP, UM, I DO WANT TO SAY, UM, THANK YOU TO PAUL ROBBINS FOR THE WORK AND EFFORT THAT HE'D PUT INTO THE PRESENTATION, UH, THAT HE SHARED EARLIER AND ALL OF THE HOURS THAT HE PUT INTO THE ANALYSIS RELATED TO THE COST-EFFECTIVENESS OF, UH, OF, OF THE PROGRAMS AND BRINGING THOSE POINTS TO OUR ATTENTION. 
          I APPRECIATE THAT, THAT CONTRIBUTION. 
          ALRIGHT, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. 
          UH, SO AT THIS TIME, UH, OPEN IT UP TO COMMENTS, UH, ON EITHER THE OVERALL CONCEPT OR THE RESOLUTION IN PARTICULAR, UH, OR ANY PROPOSED CHANGES, UM, UNDER ITEM NUMBER ONE, WHAT'S THIS THEN BE IT RESOLVED. 
          AND THEN THE ONE, I NEED A LITTLE BIT OF EXPLANATION ON THAT. 
          UM, I'M JUST WONDERING ABOUT THIS BENEFIT COST RATIO. 
          SO IF SAY BENEFIT IS $10 IN THE COST, $10, SO THEN RATIOS IS ONE, RIGHT? AND SO WE ALWAYS WANT MORE BENEFIT THAN COST. 
          AND THEN, UM, IT SAYS THAT THE LET'S SEE WHAT THE TOTAL, UH, REESE'S COST LOWER THAN ONE THAT THEY SHOULD NOT BE RIGHT. 
          NO ENERGY EFFICIENT SHOULD HAVE AS LOWER THAN ONE. 
          UM, SO LOWER THAN ONE, MEANING THAT YOUR COST IS HIGHER THAN YOUR BENEFIT, THAT, THAT WHAT WE'RE GETTING AT THAT'S CORRECT. 
          AND MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE PROGRAM AND FROM THE PRESENTATIONS THAT WE'VE RECEIVED AT THIS COMMISSION IS THAT OVERALL THE PORTFOLIO, A BENEFIT COST RATIO IS GREATER THAN ONE, BUT THERE ARE CERTAIN INCENTIVES. 
          FOR EXAMPLE, THE ONES THAT PAUL POINTED IT POINTED OUT TO US WHERE THERE MAY BE A, UH, A BENEFIT COST RATIO THAT IS LESS THAN ONE. 
          AND SO THOSE PARTICULAR INCENTIVES ARE NOT COST-EFFECTIVE. 
          UM, AND HERE WE'RE BASICALLY PROPOSING THAT THOSE, ANY INCENTIVE IN THE PROGRAM WOULD EFFECTIVELY BE COST-EFFECTIVE SAVE THE LOW INCOME PROGRAMS. UM, WHICH I THINK IS THE COMMON FOR THOSE TWO TO, UH, TO HAVE, UH, A COST BENEFIT BENEFIT COST RATIO, LESS THAN ONE. 
          OKAY. 
          ARE YOU ASKING THOUGH, BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE THIS IS ADVOCATING FOR PROGRAMS THAT ARE LOWER IT'S NOW THAT I'M READING IT, THAT'S WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE TO ME. 
          LIKE THERE NEEDS TO BE, SHOULD NOT HAVE, OR LOWER SHOULD BE HIGHER. 
          IS THAT LIKE, NOW I'M CONFUSED. 
          OH, IT STARTS OFF. 
          IT SAYS, NO, IF YOU TAKE OUT ALL THE EXTRA STEP, IT SAYS NO PROGRAM SHOULD HAVE A BENEFIT COST FOR TOTAL COST RATIO LOWER THAN ONE. 
          SO I CAN TAKE OUT THE EXTRA TASK. 
          IT'S IT'S SAYING NO PROGRAM, SHOULD I GUESS JUST LIKE A GENERAL COMMENT. 
          UM, I, I DO, I SUPPORT A LOT OF WHAT IS HERE. 
          I HAVE SOME CONCERN ABOUT LIKE MAKING SUCH A LIKE HARD BLANKET STATEMENT OF THE TOP, UH, ABOUT, UH, PROGRAMS SHOULD BE DESIGNED TO SAVE ENERGY AT LESS THAN THE COST OF PURCHASING IT. 
          LIKE A GENERAL. 
          I AGREE WITH THAT. 
          I JUST THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE ALREADY IS ONE EXCEPTION BAKED INTO THIS, YOU KNOW, AS WE JUST READ AND THERE MIGHT BE OTHER EXAMPLES TOO. 
          SO, UH, I DON'T KNOW, IT JUST MAYBE NEEDS TO BE SOFTENED UP A LITTLE, YOU KNOW, I WOULD ALSO MAKE A, JUST A PROCEDURAL COMMENT. 
          UH, WHAT, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE COME TO LIGHT WHEN THIS, WHEN THE, UH, THE PROGRAM WAS ORIGINALLY PRESENTED, UM, IT WAS, UH, AN, AN, AN ITEM THAT WAS ACTIONABLE BY CITY COUNCIL, UH, BECAUSE WHEN IT ORIGINATED, UH, THERE WAS AN INCREASE IN THE RATE FOR COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS, UM, UNDER THE CURRENT TARIFF, THAT'S ACTUALLY WHAT PRECIPITATES A COUNCIL ACTION, RIGHT? IF THERE'S AN INCREASE, THAT'S WHEN COUNSEL COMMENTS ON, UH, THIS PARTICULAR TARIFF, UM, TEXAS GAS SUBSEQUENTLY TO THAT REVISE THAT SUCH THAT THERE IS NOT AS, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THERE IS NOT AN INCREASE, UH, TO THE RATE 
          [01:50:01]
FOR COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS ANYMORE, WHICH AS I'M SURE YOU GUYS HAVE SEEN THE MEMO FROM, UH, MANDELA HAWKINS TO THAT EFFECT, WHICH IS WHY, UH, THIS IS NO LONGER BILLING TO COUNCIL. 
          AND SO I GUESS, YOU KNOW, MY CONCERN ABOUT THE RESOLUTION IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS ISN'T AN, AN ACTION ITEM, WHICH IS, IS, IS REALLY NOT GERMANE UNDER THE CURRENT TARIFF, UH, THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS, THIS REALLY SOME OF THE CONCEPTS, UH, ARE DEFINITELY WORTH EXPLORING, BUT FROM A PROCEDURAL, UH, JUST A PROCEDURAL STANDPOINT, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THERE'S THERE, YOU KNOW, THAT THE TARIFF IS WHAT IT IS, THE PR THE, THE RULES ARE WHAT THEY ARE. 
          AND, UH, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S WHY, YOU KNOW, COUNCIL ACTION IS NOT REQUIRED. 
          SO I APOLOGIZE. 
          THIS WILL BE A KIND OF A QUESTION. 
          AND I, I PROCEDURALLY WOULD LIKE TO UNDERSTAND THE APPROPRIATE WAY TO ADDRESS THIS TOPIC SPECIFICALLY. 
          I, I APPRECIATE HOW DRAFTING A RESOLUTION TO GO TO COUNCIL WHEN COUNCIL ACTION ISN'T REQUIRED DOES FEEL PROCEDURALLY, PERHAPS NOT THE BEST OR MOST EFFECTIVE APPROACH. 
          DO WE HAVE A MECHANISM AS A BODY OTHER THAN DRAFTING RESOLUTIONS TO, UH, MAKE OUR VOICES HEARD, UH, WITH REGARD TO THAT TOPIC, UM, WITH THE OFFICE OF TELECOMMUNICATIONS REGULATORY AFFAIRS OR, OR OTHERWISE, IS THERE ANOTHER PROCEDURAL MECHANISM BY WHICH WE CAN BRING UP THIS TOPIC OTHER THAN DRAFTING A RESOLUTION TO GO TO COUNCIL? YEAH, THERE ARE, I MEAN, THERE ARE A FEW WAYS, UH, ONE OF WHICH, YOU KNOW, WE'VE JUST TAKEN ON THE AUSTIN ENERGY SIDE IN THE FORM OF A WORKING GROUP. 
          SO THAT, THAT COULD BE A WAY, UM, AND ALSO TO INVITE INPUT FROM, UH, UH, THE, BOTH THE CITY AND TEXAS GAS ON A MORE, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, MAYBE, UH, A LESS FORMAL BASIS, RIGHT. 
          TO HAVE, UH, YOU KNOW, KIND OF A MORE OPEN DIALOGUE ON SOME OF THESE ISSUES, BECAUSE SOME OF THEM I AGREE ARE IMPORTANT. 
          UH, I JUST, I, I DON'T KNOW IF A RESOLUTION IS THE RIGHT ACTION AT THIS POINT, IS THERE A WAY TO PROPERLY KIND OF DUMB THIS BACK DOWN SO THAT I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY THIS RESOLUTION I HAD SUBMITTED TIMELY IN SEPTEMBER IS ESSENTIALLY BEING DEEMED MOOT? WHAT EXACTLY WAS THE MECHANISM THAT HAPPENED WHERE THIS WAS ESSENTIALLY TAKEN OFF OF OUR PLATE? CAUSE THAT'S, I GUESS THE PIECE THAT I'M STILL MISSING HERE? WELL, I MEAN, THE RESOLUTION'S NOT MOOD. 
          I MEAN, AS A COMMISSION, WE CAN PASS A RESOLUTION ON, YOU KNOW, ESSENTIALLY ANYTHING, UH, THE, THE PROBLEM BECOMES IF WE ARE PASSING, YOU KNOW, RESOLUTIONS, WHICH AREN'T JERMAINE, YOU KNOW, EVENTUALLY WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE PAID ATTENTION TO. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND WHY, WHY DOES THE DANCE, WHY DID THIS ADVANCE OUTSIDE OF WHAT WE UNDERSTOOD THE PROCESS TO BE BACK IN SEPTEMBER? THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND. 
          AND JUST IN GENERAL. 
          SURE. 
          SO AS I UNDERSTAND IT, AND THIS IS CONTAINED IN RHONDELLA HAWKINS HIS MEMO, UM, ORIGINALLY IT WAS SLATED FOR COUNCIL ACTION BECAUSE THERE WAS AN INCREASE IN, UH, THE, THE RATE FOR COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS UNDER THE TARIFF THAT DOES, UH, INSTITUTE, UH, COUNCIL AND, YOU KNOW, AS WELL, UH, THE RMC, UH, REVIEW, UM, THAT WAS IN THEIR KIND OF ORIGINAL DRAFT RATE THAT WAS, UH, REVISED SUCH THAT IT, THERE IS NO LONGER AN INCREASE IN THAT RATE. 
          AND SO THAT, UH, COUNCIL ACTION IS NO LONGER RELEVANT UNDER THE, UNDER THE TARIFF. 
          SO IF THEY KNEW THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME IN FRONT OF THIS COMMITTEE, THEN WOULDN'T IT BE IN THEIR BEST INTEREST TO GO AHEAD AND REDUCE THEIR RATE, TO AVOID ANY ACTION THAT WE MIGHT TAKE AND SEND ONTO THE COUNCIL? UH, I, I MEAN, I CAN'T RESPOND FOR TGS, OBVIOUSLY IF I MAY BRING UP ONE ADDITIONAL AND I'M SORRY TO OPEN WHAT I FEAR WILL BE A CAN OF WORMS HERE, BUT WITH REGARD TO, I CAN APPRECIATE THE PROCESS THAT WE WERE FOLLOWING IN SEPTEMBER WITH REGARD TO PASSING A RESOLUTION THAT WOULD HAVE GONE 
          [01:55:01]
ON TO CITY COUNCIL. 
          IT IS STILL THE CASE THAT RMC DOES NOT HAVE EXPLICIT PURVIEW OVER TGS RATES. 
          UM, SO WHILE WE HAVE PURVIEW OVER ENERGY CONSERVATION, UM, ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAMS, UH, UH, RESPONSIBLE ADMINISTRATION OF THOSE PROGRAMS, WE ALSO STILL DON'T HAVE, WE, WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR RATE REVIEW OF, OF TEXAS GAS SERVICE, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, UM, WHICH DOES MAKE THESE CONVERSATIONS A LITTLE BIT COMPLICATED, BECAUSE THERE'S A POINT AT WHICH OUR THERE'S A LIMIT TO WHICH OUR INPUT, UH, IS HER RECEIVED. 
          I GUESS THAT IS THE CASE, RIGHT. 
          I GUESS I'M LOOKING FOR, UH, I, I, I, I WILL HAVE TO TRACK THAT QUESTION DOWN. 
          I DON'T KNOW, DANA, YOU KNOW, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT IF, IF IT'S AN ACTION THAT'S TIED BACK TO EFFICIENCY OR CONSERVATION IN SOME WAY, THEN THAT MAKES IT RELEVANT FOR US. 
          SO I DON'T, I DON'T THINK THAT THIS IS OUTSIDE OF OUR, OUR BONES, BY MY UNDERSTANDING WE WE'VE TAKEN ACTION ON THINGS SIMILAR TO THIS IN THE PAST. 
          AND, AND I GUESS TO THIS POINT OF WHETHER IT'S TIMELY WITH COUNCIL, I THINK WE COULD JUST, AND I'M NOT NECESSARILY SAYING WE SHOULD MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS TODAY, BUT IF WE WERE TO FINE TUNE THIS FOR FUTURE ACTION, I THINK WE COULD MAYBE ADJUST IT SO THAT IT WAS RECOMMENDING THE COUNCIL MAKE A POLICY DECISION THAT WILL AFFECT THE NEXT ROUND OF THIS TARIFF. 
          RIGHT? SO JUST LIKE WE, WE ARE ALLOWED TO TAKE ACTION ON AN ITEM, EVEN IF IT'S NOT HEMLEY SAME THING FOR COUNCIL, RIGHT? SO EVEN THOUGH THE TARIFF ISN'T COMING TO THEM, THEY COULD PROACTIVELY MAKE A POLICY DIRECTION OF THAT WOULD AFFECT A FUTURE TARIFF. 
          THAT THAT WOULD BE MY READ, WHETHER WE WANT TO DO THAT OR NOT. 
          I THINK THAT WOULD BE THE LOGIC AND WE'D MAYBE WANT TO ADJUST THE LANGUAGE APPROPRIATELY. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          KAY. 
          YOU BUY THAT, THAT IS HELPFUL. 
          AND THAT I THINK DOES GIVE US KIND OF A GUIDING RAILS WITH WHICH WE CAN, WE CAN OPERATE. 
          I THINK IT ALSO, I BELIEVE IT ALSO MEANS THAT WE DO HAVE SOME, SOME TIME TO WORK THROUGH THE SPECIFIC LANGUAGE WRITTEN HERE AND, YOU KNOW, TO THE POINT THAT I MADE EARLIER, UM, I REALLY, I, I APPRECIATED THE LANGUAGE AND THE PREVIOUS RESOLUTION FOR THE WORKING GROUP ABOUT WORKING WITH THE UTILITY AND IN CITY STAFF, UM, AS WELL AS THE UC. 
          UM, AND I DO BELIEVE THAT THERE AN OPPORTUNITY TO WORK MORE COLLABORATIVELY COLLABORATIVELY ON THE LANGUAGE, UH, HERE WITH THE INTENT OF REFLECTING THE POSITION OF THE RMC RELATED TO COST-EFFECTIVENESS OF THE PROGRAMS. UM, AND, AND SO I, I GUESS WHERE I'M GOING IS THAT ULTIMATELY IS MY RECOMMENDATION THAT WE DO TWEAK THIS LANGUAGE A BIT IN A WAY THAT IS, UM, UH, REFLECTS A BROADER STAKEHOLDER PROCESS THAT WE CAN THEN TAKE TO COUNCIL FOR CONSIDERATION. 
          YEAH. 
          SO FROM A PROCEDURAL STANDPOINT, IT IS POSSIBLE TO TABLE THE RESOLUTION, UH, FOR A FUTURE DATE WHILE THAT IS WORKED OUT THAT PARTICULAR LANGUAGE. 
          IF, IF, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE ASKING, I THINK I AM, BUT I'M NOT THE ONLY PERSON SPONSORING THE RESOLUTION. 
          SO PLEASE DON'T LET ME, UH, SO JUST PROCEDURALLY, IF WE DO LAY THIS ON THE TABLE, WE'RE ABLE TO BASICALLY COME BACK WITH AN AMENDMENT OR MULTIPLE AMENDMENTS TO THIS DOCUMENT TO INTRODUCE IT THAT TIME. 
          THAT WOULD BE OUR, OUR PROCESS TO GO FORWARD ON THIS ONE, OR IS IT BETTER TO TAKE THIS GUY OUT BACK AND SHOOT IT AND START FRESH? UM, UM, I MEAN, YOU COULD DO EITHER, UH, THE POSTING, YOU KNOW, YOU WOULD JUST REQUEST AN AGENDA ITEM THAT HAS THAT RESOLUTION, UH, W AND WHETHER IT'S REVISED OR HOWEVER IT'S REVISED IS FINE. 
          OKAY. 
          I'M COMFORTABLE PUTTING IT ON THE TABLE. 
          OKAY. 
          SO CAN I, I'M SORRY, MATE, BEFORE WE TABLE IT, MAY I, I GUESS PART OF, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I WANTED TO, TO TRY TO DETERMINE FROM THIS COMMISSION WAS JUST GENERAL INTEREST IN PURSUING COST-EFFECTIVENESS OF THE TGS REBATES FOR ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND KIND OF GENERAL AGREEMENT THAT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD PURSUE AS A BODY. 
          UM, I, I FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT IT, BUT WOULD LIKE TO JUST KIND OF HEAR AMONG THE GROUP THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE WANT TO PUT OUR ENERGY 
          [02:00:01]
INTO. 
          YEAH. 
          I, I MEAN, I I'LL TELL YOU, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE THAT'S WORKED AT ENERGY EFFICIENCY FOR ON THE ELECTRICITY SIDE FOR A WHILE. 
          I DO HAVE A CONCERN WITH TESTS THAT LOOK AT INDIVIDUAL MEASURES VERSUS, UM, PORTFOLIOS OR ENTIRE PROGRAMS, BECAUSE IT IS A VERY COMMON THING WITH UTILITIES, GAS, UTILITIES, ELECTRIC UTILITY IS THAT SOME MEASURES ARE BY THEMSELVES GOING TO BE HARD TO BE COST EFFECTIVE, BUT WHEN PAIRED WITH OTHER MEASURES THAT ARE COST-EFFECTIVE, UH, THAT THAT'S REALLY THE WAY TO GET THE MOST COST BENEFIT OUT OF IT. 
          SO FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, THE THERMOSTAT MIGHT BE THE DEVICE THAT, YOU KNOW, EVERYONE WANTS, AND THIS IS, YOU KNOW, KIND OF THE SEXY THING TO HAVE, BUT WHILE YOU'RE DOING THAT, YOU WOULD ALSO WANT TO UPDATE YOUR WINDOWS OR YOUR ATTIC INSULATION. 
          UM, THOSE TECHNOLOGIES ON THEIR OWN HAVE PAYBACKS THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES DECADES, RIGHT. 
          BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE THEM BAD TECHNOLOGIES. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO I, YOU KNOW, WE'RE JUST KIND OF, I, I'M HESITANT TO, UH, LOOK AT, UH, HAVE A, UH, A MEASURE LEVEL TEST, UH, WHEN IT COMES TO EFFICIENCY PROGRAMS, BECAUSE IT REALLY, IT'S MORE OF A PORTFOLIO VIEW THAT, THAT WE SHOULD BE TAKING HERE. 
          UH, I'M SORRY, PAUL, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT IS ALLOWED. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THAT'S HELPFUL. 
          SORRY. 
          I'M I'M SAYING WELL, SINCE YOU'RE, IT SEEMS LIKE YOU'RE ASKING FOR KIND OF INPUT FOR THE NEXT ROUND. 
          I AM. 
          I ALSO HAVE SOME CONCERN WITH, WITH A SUPER HARD LINE. 
          UH, I THINK THAT WE COULD PROBABLY COME UP WITH SOME RECOMMENDATION THAT IS TIGHTENS THINGS UP MORE THAN THEY ARE, BUT MAYBE DOESN'T TAKE SUCH A HARD LINE THAT LIKE NOTHING SHOULD BE LOWER. 
          UM, BUT IN ADDITION, I THINK THAT WE SHOULD CONSIDER, YOU KNOW, THING AT LEAST ONE FACTOR BEYOND JUST COST AND NAMELY THAT'S ACTUAL EMISSIONS REDUCTIONS. 
          AND, YOU KNOW, WE JUST PASSED THE CLIMATE EQUITY PLAN AND, YOU KNOW, THIS IS ONE OF THE AREAS THAT THE PLAN DOES IDENTIFY THAT, THAT, UH, WORK IS NEEDED. 
          AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE HAVE HAD QUITE A FEW CONVERSATIONS AT THIS COMMISSION. 
          I KNOW SOME ARE PREDATE SOME OF THE MEMBERSHIP HERE, BUT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHICH OF THESE, UH, PROGRAMS ARE ACTUALLY REDUCING THE USE OF GAS VERSUS SUPPOSEDLY REDUCING EMISSIONS THROUGH A CALCULATION, YOU KNOW? UM, SO I, I WOULD LIKE TO REVISIT THAT ISSUE POTENTIALLY IN THE, IN THE SAME RESOLUTION, IF THAT'S OF INTEREST IT, I WOULD BE INTERESTED CAVAN. 
          I KNOW WE'VE, WE'VE HAD THIS DISCUSSION WITH REGARD TO, HOW CAN WE, W WE LOOK COMPREHENSIVELY AT EMISSIONS REDUCTION POTENTIAL OF ALL OF THE PROGRAMS THAT, YOU KNOW, AS WE'RE EXPLORING. 
          AND I, I, I WOULD SUPPORT THAT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          SO I BELIEVE THAT YOUR REVISED MOTION IS TO TABLE THE RESOLUTION FOR THE, FOR THE TIME BEING YEAH. 
          THE PENDING REVISION. 
          IS THAT THAT'S CORRECT? YES. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          UH, ANY FURTHER COMMENTS OR DISCUSSION ON THAT? ALRIGHT. 
          UM, UM, UM, YOU KNOW, AS I'M LOOKING AT THIS, UH, THE TWO PARAGRAPH THAT I'M HAVING A LITTLE BIT OF A PROBLEM WITH, AND HOPEFULLY FOR NEXT TIME WE MEET, WE HAVE SOME MORE INFORMATION ON THAT'S, UH, PARAGRAPH THREE, WHERE IT TALKS ABOUT $1.9 MILLION, EIGHT, $8 AND SO ON. 
          UM, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME BACKUP ON THAT INFORMATION BECAUSE I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW WHERE THOSE NUMBERS ARE COMING FROM. 
          UM, I KNOW THAT PAUL HAS DONE A LOT OF WORK, BUT IS THIS ALSO SOMETHING THAT'S COMING FROM CITY OR, OR, YOU KNOW, WHERE, WHERE THIS NUMBER IS COMING FROM? AND, UM, I CAN ANSWER THAT WHEN IT DID COME FROM TEXAS GAS, THAT WAS IN THEIR PITCH DECK. 
          OKAY. 
          AND THEN, UH, UH, WHAT I TALKED ABOUT OR QUESTION ABOUT, UM, EARLIER, UH, ITEM NUMBER ONE, AFTER WHERE IT SAYS THEN VIET RESULT. 
          SO I GET THE FIRST PART, THE NO ENERGY PROGRAM SHOULD HAVE A COSMETIC RATIO LOWER THAN ONE, UNLESS THEN IT GOES BACK TO UNLESS IS FOR THIS OTHER PROGRAMS. 
          [02:05:01]
SO, UM, I THINK THERE'S GOTTA BE SOME KIND OF REVISION. 
          AND THE SECOND PART, BECAUSE BASICALLY WHAT WE'RE SAYING HERE IS THAT THE, UH, FOR THE LOW INCOME CUSTOMERS, UM, UH, THE COST IS GOING TO BE HIGHER. 
          SO I'LL BE LOOKING AT, OR PLANNING TO LOOK AT, OR WHOEVER'S LOOKING AT THIS PLANNING TO LOOK AT OTHER WAYS TO REDUCE THE COSTS SO THAT IT WOULD TRULY BE, UM, ENERGY, UM, TRULY BE A, UM, EFFICIENT PROGRAM. 
          NOT SO EVERYTHING'S OKAY HERE, BUT IF YOU WANT TO DO THIS OTHER THING, THEN THE COST WILL BE HIGHER. 
          SEE WHAT I'M SAYING OR FOR SURE. 
          WELL, I THINK SO, DANA, YOU PROBABLY KNOW MORE ABOUT THIS THAN ME, BUT, UH, REALLY WHAT THIS IS GETTING AT IS THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES THE, THE GOALS OF, UH, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, AN LMI PROGRAM, UH, DON'T HAVE TO MEET THE COST BENEFIT TEST, ESSENTIALLY THE UTILITY IS PROVIDING A SUBSIDY TO IMPLEMENT THOSE TECHNOLOGIES. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, EVEN THOUGH THE COST OF BENEFIT MAY NOT PASS, UH, FROM, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, THE, THE RATIO STANDPOINT, RIGHT. 
          THAT'S CORRECT. 
          UM, AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT IS THAT IS QUITE COMMON AND IN LMI ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAMS, BOTH ON THE GAS AND THE ELECTRICITY SIDE, UM, AND HAS TO DO WITH A NUMBER OF FACTORS OF FACTORS, INCLUDING JUST, YOU KNOW, CONSUMPTION WISE, THE, THE AMOUNT OF ENERGY USED AS WELL AS HOUSING CONDITIONS AND OUTREACH AND ENGAGEMENT WITH, WITH PROGRAMS. SO THERE ARE OFTEN INHERENTLY HIGHER COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH THOSE PROGRAMS, EVEN IF YOU'RE IMPLEMENTING THE SAME TECHNOLOGIES, UM, IS, IS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT BEING SAID, I, WE DO WORK WITH LOW INCOME PROGRAMS, BUT I'M ALSO NOT AN ENERGY EFFICIENCY EXPERT. 
          SO I'D HAVE TO RELY ON, UM, TGS STAFF TO, TO CONFIRM THAT I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, HAS TO DO ALSO WITH JUST PAYING A HIGHER PERCENTAGE, OFTEN A HUNDRED PERCENT OF WHATEVER THE MEASURE IS INSTEAD OF SOME PORTION OF IT AND RELYING ON THE CUSTOMER TO PAY FOR THE OTHER PORTION, IF YOU'RE DEALING WITH LOW INCOME CUSTOMERS, THEY DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY SOME PERCENTAGE GOOD POINT. 
          AND THEN ON THE NEXT PAGE, UH, I THINK IT'S, UH, PARAGRAPH 10 AND 11. 
          UM, WELL, IT'D BE ITEM TWO AND THREE, AND DID BEGINNING IN 2021, IS THAT THIS CORRECT NUMBERS OR IS THIS SUPPOSED TO BE BEGINNING 28? I WOULD BE AMENDING THOSE TO 2023 AT THIS POINT. 
          UM, BUT I FIGURED SINCE WE'RE HAVING MORE OF A HOLISTIC DISCUSSION OF THE WHOLE THING, I WASN'T GOING TO OFFER CORRECTIVE AMENDMENTS AT THIS POINT. 
          OKAY. 
          THANKS. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          UH, SO THE MOTION ON THE TABLE IS TO TABLE THE RESOLUTION PENDING FOR THE REVISIONS. 
          SO LET'S TAKE A VOTE ON THAT ALL IN FAVOR. 
          PLEASE RAISE YOUR HAND. 
          UH, MR. DAVIS, HIS HAND IS UP. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          UH, THANK YOU ALL FOR THE FEEDBACK. 
          WELL, WE'LL COME BACK TO THE COMMISSION. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          SO MOTION IS TABLED, UH, FOR FURTHER REVISIONS, UM, MOVING ON 
          [7. Discussion and possible action regarding a resolution on the establishment of a
community benefit charge for Texas Gas Service. (Sponsors: Stone; Harmon)]
ITEM SEVEN, DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING A RESOLUTION ON THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A COMMUNITY BENEFIT CHARGED FOR TGS. 
          UM, IS THERE A MOTION ON THE TABLE? ALRIGHT, MOTION IS MADE TO ADOPT THE RESOLUTION AS PRESENTED. 
          UH, WE WILL OPEN THE FLOOR FOR DISCUSSION, UM, SIMILAR TO THE LAST, UH, UH, RESOLUTION THAT WE DISCUSSED. 
          UH, I, I HAVE FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEMS WITH THE WAY THAT THE TEXAS CENTRAL GAS, UH, PROGRAM IS, IS, UH, BEING ADMINISTERED, BUT SORRY, I HAD PROBLEMS WITH THE WAY THAT THE TEXAS GAS SERVICE PROGRAM IS BEING ADMINISTERED, BUT GIVEN WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DOING WITH THE PRIOR RESOLUTION, I'M HOPING PERHAPS WE'RE ABLE TO TAKE THESE TWO, MARRY THEM TOGETHER AND COME UP WITH ONE MORE HOLISTIC APPROACH TO THIS. 
          UM, SO IF IT WANTS TO BE LAID BACK ON THE TABLE, I WOULD NOT BE OFFENDED AT ALL. 
          AND JUST TO ADD TO THAT, I DO THINK THAT THESE RESOLUTIONS DO DO GO TOGETHER IN SOME WAYS, BECAUSE IT WAS LOOKING AT WAYS TO KIND OF DEPLOY THE COST SAVINGS POTENTIALLY FROM THE PREVIOUS RESOLUTION, UH, DISCUSSION. 
          BUT I THINK THERE ARE SEVERAL REALLY INTERESTING IDEAS IN THIS RESOLUTION THAT I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THIS COMMISSION EXPLORE, UM, PERHAPS IN ONE CENTRAL RESOLUTION, BUT ALSO POTENTIALLY A SEPARATE TOPICS, UM, RELATED TO THE COMMUNITY BENEFIT CHARGE FOR UTILITY ASSISTANCE. 
          UM, I, I THINK IS AN IMPORTANT TOPIC FOR, FOR US TO EXPLORE, BUT ADDITIONALLY, A SEPARATE TOPIC 
          [02:10:01]
RELATED TO, UH, RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT DOLLARS, UM, AND HOW, WHETHER, AND HOW THIS COMMISSION, UM, MAY BE ABLE TO ENCOURAGE TEXAS GAS SERVICE, TO INVEST MORE CREATIVELY IN RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT THAT CAN HELP, UM, POTENTIALLY ACCELERATE THE DECARBONIZATION, UM, OF, OF THAT PORTFOLIO, I THINK IS A REALLY INTERESTING TOPIC THAT WOULD BE WORTHWHILE FOR THIS COMMISSION TO DISCUSS AS WELL. 
          SO WHILE I AGREE WITH MR. STONE ON IT, IT PROBABLY DOES MAKE SENSE TO TABLE THIS RESOLUTION FOR, FOR TODAY'S MEETING. 
          UM, I DO BELIEVE THAT THROUGH THIS PROCESS, THERE WERE A COUPLE OF INTERESTING TOPICS THAT WILL COME UP OUT THAT WOULD BE WORTH EXPLORING, WHICH MAY BE RELATED, BUT ALSO COULD, COULD BE ADDRESSED INDEPENDENTLY BY THIS BODY IF WE THOUGHT THAT THAT MADE SENSE. 
          YEAH. 
          I MEAN, I WILL SAY LIKE TH THIS IDEA OR THE CONCEPT OF, UH, HAVING SOME TYPE OF FUNDING MECHANISM TO ASSIST, UH, TGS AND THEIR, UM, YOU KNOW, LOW CARBON FUELS EFFORTS. 
          AND I THINK IT IS REALLY INTERESTING AND I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, TGS WOULD DEFINITELY WANT TO BE INVOLVED IN AND, AND MAYBE INTERESTED IN THEMSELVES, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT, UH, REALLY WOULD BE BEST SUITED AS PART OF, UH, SUCH AS A UTILITY RATE CASE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. 
          AND I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, UTILITY RATE CASES ARE VERY COMPLICATED AND CERTAINLY IT'S SOMETHING THAT, THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO THINK THROUGH VERY CAREFULLY. 
          IS IT A COMMUNITY BENEFIT CHARGE THAT DOES THAT, OR IS THERE SOME OTHER MECHANISM, BUT I THINK THIS IDEA OF HAVING SOME MECHANISM TO, TO, TO HELP PROMOTE TGS, UH, TO THEIR GOALS, UH, AMONGST CARBON IS A VERY INTERESTING CONCEPT. 
          I THINK IT JUST NEEDS TO BE FLESHED OUT A LITTLE BIT MORE. 
          THANK YOU. 
          I GUESS I'D BE OPEN TO OTHER INTERESTED IN OTHER PEOPLE'S FEEDBACK ON THAT TOPIC AS WELL, IF YOU'RE WILLING. 
          YEAH. 
          I WAS JUST CURIOUS, UM, WAS THE INTENT OF THE RESOLUTION TO, UM, HAVE TGS FOCUS ONLY ON SOLAR FUELS OR I WASN'T SURE WHY, UM, SOLAR FUELS WAS INCLUDED SPECIFICALLY. 
          MY IMPRESSION IS THE INTENT IS TO, TO REALLY LOOK AT HOW TGS CAN HELP INVEST IN, UH, R AND D THAT CAN HELP, UH, ACCELERATE EMISSIONS REDUCTIONS BROADLY. 
          UH, IT DOES EXPLICITLY CALL IT CALL-OUT SOLAR FUELS, AND I FEEL LIKE IT MAY BE AN OPPORTUNITY TO BROADEN THAT, RIGHT. 
          YEAH. 
          SO IF IT WAS SOMETHING THAT DIDN'T, YOU KNOW, DICTATE EXACTLY WHAT OKAY, THANK YOU. 
          AND HONESTLY, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY I TAKE MORE OF A PRACTICAL APPROACH WHEN I JUST, YOU KNOW, KIND OF, LIKE I MENTIONED EARLIER, YOU KNOW, I CAN'T LOOK TO THEM TO COME UP WITH PROGRAMS THAT ARE GOING TO SAVE ON NATURAL GAS USAGE. 
          THEREFORE, I LOOKED AT THIS AND SAYING, IT COULD BE A WAY TO TAKE THOSE FUNDS IF WE WERE TO GO A DIFFERENT ROUTE FROM THE PREVIOUS, UH, RESOLUTION, TAKE THOSE FUNDS AND ESSENTIALLY HAVE SOMEBODY ELSE DO THAT HARD WORK FOR THEM THAT THEY JUST WON'T DO. 
          THAT WAS KIND OF MY THOUGHT PROCESS. 
          AND THAT'S WHY I MARRY THESE TWO BILLS AND MY TWO RESOLUTIONS IN MY HEAD A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN MAYBE I SHOULD, BUT THAT'S PART OF MY THOUGHT PROCESS THERE SO DO WE STILL, DID WE, SORRY, DID WE VOTE ON TABLING THIS ONE OR IS THAT THE NEXT WELL, IS THAT I BELIEVE THAT IS THAT THE MOTION THAT'S BEING MADE THAT WILL TAKE ALL RIGHT. 
          UH, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          SO WE'LL TAKE A VOTE ON, UH, TABLING THIS RESOLUTION, UH, FOR FURTHER, UH, REVISIONS YES. 
          OR VOTING. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE RAISE YOUR HANDS. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          UH, SO MOVED WE ITEM SEVEN, WE WILL, UH, TABLE FOR FUTURE REVISIONS, UH, NEXT ON THE 
          [8. Discussion and possible recommendation to Council on CenterPoint Energy Resources
Corporation proposed Energy Efficiency Rate Tariff (Rate Schedule EE- Austin).]
AGENDA ITEM, EIGHT DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE RECOMMENDATION TO COUNCIL ON CENTER POINT ENERGY RESOURCES, CORPORATION, PROPOSED ENERGY EFFICIENCY RATE TARIFF. 
          I BELIEVE WE HAVE SHAY RICHARDSON FROM THE CENTER POINTS. 
          YES, YES. 
          CAN EVERYBODY HEAR ME? OKAY. 
          WE CAN, CAN YOU GIVE ME JUST A MINUTE? UH, RON DELL IS GOING TO, UH, GIVE SOME BRIEF OPENING REMARKS. 
          OKAY. 
          BUT EVENING RONDO HAWKINS, UH, WITH THE CITY'S TELECOMMUNICATIONS AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS OFFICE AND A CENTER POINT ENERGY, UM, THE, THE NATURAL GAS SIDE, UM, THEY, THEY HAVE A GAS FRENCH FRANCHISE WITH THE CITY. 
          AND, UH, WHILE TEXAS GAS IS THE INCUMBENT A LONGSTANDING COMPANY, WE HAVE CENTER POINT ENERGY AND UNDER THE FRANCHISE, THEY ARE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE AN ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM. 
          WHENEVER 
          [02:15:01]
WE GRANTED THE FRANCHISE, THEY HAD 500 CUSTOMERS AND IN THE FRANCHISE, ONCE THEY REACHED 5,000 CUSTOMERS. 
          IT TRIGGERS THEM THE OFFERED A PROGRAM IN THE CITY OF AUSTIN. 
          NOW THEY HAVE LESS THAN 5,000. 
          I THINK THERE ARE ABOUT 2000, BUT THEY HAD COME TO THIS. 
          THEY COME TO THE CITY AND ACTUALLY FILED A TARIFF, A RIGHT TARIFF TO, UM, TO BEGIN A REAL SMALL SCALE, UM, ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM. 
          AND SO, UM, BECAUSE THAT'S A NEW RATE, IT, THIS WOULD BE A RATE PAYER FUNDED, UM, ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM, UH, THAT THEY WOULD, THEY'RE LOOKING AT AN EFFECTIVE DATE OF FEBRUARY, THE FIRST OF 2022. 
          AND, UH, BECAUSE IT'S A NEW RATE, IT DOES REQUIRE, UM, A CITY COUNCIL PUBLIC HEARING AND, UH, COUNCIL ADOPTION. 
          SO I JUST WANTED TO KIND OF LAY THE BACKGROUND, UH, AND WE HAVE, UH, SHAVE RICHARDSON WHO IS THE COMPLIANCE MANAGER OF ENERGY EFFICIENCY, UH, WITH CENTER POINT, I, THEY HAVE A BRIEF PRESENTATION. 
          AND SO, UM, ONCE HE WRAPS IT UP, THEN I CAN JUST KIND OF GO OVER NEXT STEPS, TIMELINE. 
          AND, UM, AND SO THAT'S WHY I JUST WANTED TO TEE UP THE PRESENTATION. 
          SO I'M GOING TO STEP ASIDE. 
          THANK YOU. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UH, SHEA, ARE YOU, CAN YOU, YOU CAN HEAR ME. 
          YES, I CAN. 
          OKAY. 
          YOU'RE REALLY QUIET. 
          COULD YOU LEAN INTO THE MIC? MAYBE YOU'RE A LITTLE CLOSER TO, YEAH. 
          IS THAT BETTER? IT'S IT'S STILL PRETTY QUIET, UH, THAT WE CAN, WE CAN HEAR YOU BETTER. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, I MAY HAVE MADE THE MISTAKE OF CALLING THROUGH ON MY PHONE, SO I'LL HAVE TO LEAN IN HERE, HOPEFULLY. 
          UH, HOPEFULLY THAT'S A LITTLE BIT BETTER. 
          OKAY. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          YEAH, GO FOR IT. 
          WE'LL WE'LL KEEP IT QUIET. 
          OKAY. 
          OKAY. 
          AND I'LL TRY TO SPEAK LOUD. 
          SO I JUST, AGAIN APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK, UH, AT THIS, AT THIS MEETING TONIGHT, UH, IN FRONT OF THE COMMISSION AND AS, AND AS RHONDA ELLA MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, WE SENT A POINT G UH, REALLY WANT TO, UH, JUST TALK THROUGH A PLAN WE HAVE FOR RUNNING A SMALL SCALE, ENERGY EFFICIENCY, NATURAL GAS PILOT, AND IN AUSTIN, TEXAS. 
          AND, YOU KNOW, I KNOW RHONDA GAVE SOME BACKGROUND ON OUR FRANCHISE AGREEMENT AND, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT A CERTAIN POINT, BUT THAT WE ARE REQUIRED TO, UM, DELIVER SUCH A PROGRAM. 
          BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE REALLY, UM, REALLY GOT A CHALLENGE THIS YEAR FROM, FROM OUR COMPANY LEADERSHIP A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, WE EMBARKED ON A, UH, A CARBON POLICY, UH, FOR REDUCING CARBON EMISSIONS, UH, ATTRIBUTABLE ATTRIBUTABLE, NOT JUST TO, UH, COMPANY OPERATIONS, BUT TO CUSTOMER USAGE AS WELL. 
          AND ONE OF THE KEY, UH, KEY COMPONENTS OF THAT PLAN IS, UH, ENERGY CONSERVATION AND ENERGY EFFICIENCY, IMPROVEMENT PROGRAMS FOR OUR CUSTOMERS. 
          UM, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'VE DONE THROUGHOUT, UM, OUR, OUR SERVICE TERRITORY AND MULTIPLE STATES, ARKANSAS, INDIANA, MINNESOTA, MISSISSIPPI, OHIO IN OKLAHOMA. 
          WE ALL HAVE, UH, WE IMPLEMENT GAS, NATURAL GAS, ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAMS IN THOSE STATES. 
          UH, WE ALSO HAVE ELECTRIC PROGRAMS, UH, IN OUR, UH, HOUSTON, TEXAS METRO AREA AND IN INDIANA AS WELL. 
          UH, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT IN THE SPACE OF OFFERING NATURAL GAS, ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAMS FOR ANY OF OUR TEXAS CUSTOMERS. 
          AND SO, UH, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE REALLY WANTED TO, UM, TO LOOK AT THIS YEAR AND DEVELOP A PLAN FOR HOW WOULD YOU GET INTO THAT SPACE AND PROVIDE SOMETHING, UM, UH, FOR CUSTOMERS TO REDUCE THEIR NATURAL GAS AND, UM, THEY JUST OPPORTUNITIES FOR THEM TO BE MORE EFFICIENT. 
          AND SO, UH, WITH THAT, WITH THAT CHALLENGE, UH, WITH THAT CALL, YOU KNOW, WE, WE REALLY LOOKED TO AUSTIN, UM, TO, TO DEVELOP SUCH A PILOT. 
          UH, AGAIN, WE HAVE A VERY SMALL CUSTOMER BASE. 
          SO, UH, IT IS A, A VERY, VERY LIMITED PILOT, BUT WHEN WE THINK IS, IS, IS A GOOD INTRODUCTION TO, UM, UM, PROVIDING SOMETHING LIKE THAT FOR A CUSTOMER. 
          SO IF I COULD ASK YOU TO MOVE TO THE NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. 
          SO IN DEVELOPING THIS PILOT, WE, WE REALLY LOOKED AT, UH, THREE OF THE BANKS. 
          ONE, WE, WE CERTAINLY WANTED TO PROVIDE OPPORTUNITIES FOR CUSTOMERS TO REDUCE THEIR NATURAL GAS USAGE AND CONSERVE RESOURCES, UH, AND DO THAT COST EFFECTIVELY. 
          UH, LET'S TAKE A WORD, YOU KNOW, JUST BE ENVIRONMENTAL BENEFIT THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, WE, WE, 
          [02:20:01]
WE SEE WITH OUR OTHER NATURAL GAS PROGRAMS AND KIND OF PROVIDING THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, BY INFLUENCING OUR CUSTOMERS IN THE MARKET TO, UH, UH, MAKE ENERGY EFFICIENT CHOICES. 
          AND, AND THAT KIND OF MOVES TO THE THIRD. 
          THE THIRD BULLET IS JUST, YOU KNOW, ALONG WITH THE TANGIBLE BENEFITS AND THE ENERGY SAVINGS THAT I'LL GO THROUGH HERE IN A BIT, UH, IS REALLY JUST PROVIDING EDUCATION AND PROMOTING THAT ENERGY CONSCIOUS ATTITUDE, UH, AND BEHAVIORS THAT SUPPORT CUSTOMERS TO BE MORE EFFICIENT. 
          SO THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING TO DO WITH THIS PILOT. 
          AGAIN, THIS IS, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S NEW FOR US IN TEXAS AND IN AUSTIN, BUT IT'S CERTAINLY NOT NEW TO THE COMPANY, UH, IN TERMS OF WHAT OUR GOALS ARE, UH, BEFORE A CARBON POLICY AND OUR HISTORY OF DELIVERING ENERGY EFFICIENCY. 
          SO IF I COULD ASK YOU TO MOVE TO THE NEXT, UM, THE NEXT SLIDE, I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW WE APPROACH TO THE DESIGN OF THIS. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, I, I KNOW FROM HERE'S SOME OF THE CONVERSATION EARLIER ON, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY EVERYONE ON THIS CALL IS VERY FAMILIAR WITH ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND SOME OTHER THINGS THAT ARE ALREADY BEING DONE IN YOUR AREA. 
          UM, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE REALLY WANTED TO LOOK AT AGAIN, BECAUSE WE HAVE A VERY SMALL CUSTOMER BASE, UM, AND, AND THEN WANTED TO HAVE A, WE'LL HAVE A LIMITED BUDGET FOR THIS KIND OF PILOT. 
          WE LOOK AT THIS AS KIND OF A QUICK START APPROACH, AND THAT'S A TERM THAT WE'VE USED IN, AND IN MANY OTHER STATES WHERE WE HAVE IMPLEMENTED, UM, YOU KNOW, INITIAL ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAMS. SO WE'RE LOOKING AT THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN DO WITH MINIMAL BUDGET, MINIMAL RESOURCES THAT, OR HE NEEDS ME FOR CUSTOMERS TO PARTICIPATE IN, UH, BUT STILL PRODUCE ENERGY SAVINGS, STILL COST EFFECTIVE, UH, AND STILL COMPREHENSIVE IN TERMS OF WHAT WE'RE OFFERING AND, UH, THE TYPES OF CUSTOMERS THAT CAN PARTICIPATE AND HOW THEY'RE ABLE TO GET INVOLVED. 
          SO WE REALLY WANTED TO IDENTIFY SOME SPECIFIC PROGRAMS AND SOME SPECIFIC END USE MEASURES THAT WOULD FIT, UH, THAT TYPE OF A PILOT. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, FROM THERE, WE LOOKED AT DEVELOPING AUSTIN SPECIFIC ENERGY SAVINGS, UH, FOR, FOR THOSE SPECIFIC MEASURES AND, AND THEN REALLY LOOKING AT COST PROJECTIONS OF, OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE THOUGHT IT WOULD TAKE TO DELIVER SUCH A PROGRAM AND WHAT TYPE OF CUSTOMER INCENTIVES THAT WE WOULD OFFER, THINGS LIKE THAT. 
          UM, AGAIN, MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE DOING THAT COST EFFECTIVELY. 
          AND THEN, UH, REALLY THE LAST THING IS LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE MOST EFFECTIVELY MARKET THAT AND DELIVER THAT TO GET THAT INFORMATION OUT TO OUR CUSTOMERS AND TO OUR, YOU KNOW, THE TRADE ALLIES AND CONTRACTORS WHO ARE, UM, SERVING THOSE CUSTOMERS IN OUR AREA. 
          SO, YOU KNOW, WE REALLY LOOKED AT ALL THOSE THINGS, UH, RELIED ON A LOT OF, UM, YOU KNOW, INFORMATION THAT WE HAD AND KIND OF OUR HISTORY IN DELIVERING PROGRAMS. AND WHAT WE HAVE, UH, REALLY TO PROPOSE IS THREE DIFFERENT COMPONENTS OF THIS PILOT AND THE FIRST BEING PRESCRIPTIVE EQUIPMENT REBATES, WHICH IS, UH, JUST A, UH, A CASH REBATE FOR OUR CUSTOMERS FOR HIGH EFFICIENCY EQUIPMENT, SUCH AS WATER HEATERS, FURNACES, THERMOSTATS. 
          UH, THE SECOND COMPONENT IS A, WE CALL A DIY, DO IT YOURSELF, HOME CONSERVATION, APPROVEMENT PRODUCTS. 
          AND THAT'S REALLY A, UM, JUST A DIRECT MAIL, FREE CONSERVATION IMPROVEMENT KITS THAT OUR CUSTOMERS COULD REQUEST. 
          AND THOSE WOULD BE SHIPPED TO THEM DIRECT MAIL. 
          AND THE THIRD COMPONENT IS, UH, SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE FOR THE, UH, COMMERCIAL COMMERCIAL MARKET FOR OUR COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS. 
          AND THAT'S THE DIRECT INSTALL PROGRAM THAT IS DESIGNED TO, UH, IT'S REALLY A LIKE TO LIKE TURN KEY PROGRAM IS EQUIPMENT REPLACEMENT, UH, FOR, UM, STANDARD KIND OF EFFICIENCY EQUIPMENT THAT YOU WOULD SEE ON NORMAL THINGS IN A, IN A COMMERCIAL FACILITY, PARTICULARLY A KITCHEN TYPE EQUIPMENT PRE-READ SPRAY VOWELS, THINGS LIKE THAT. 
          I'LL GET INTO A LITTLE BIT OF THE DETAILS OF THE MEASURES LATER, BUT I LIKED THE LIGHT REPLACEMENT, UH, WITH A MORE EFFICIENT OPTION. 
          SO AGAIN, TRY TO LOOK AT, UH, THINGS THAT HAVE, YOU KNOW, BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN THE PAST. 
          WE RUN ALL THESE PROGRAMS AND AGAIN, AND OTHER STATES, AND THEY HAVE BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL THINGS THAT WE THOUGHT TO BE COST EFFECTIVE, BUT SOMETHING THAT WE COULD OFFER, UM, YOU KNOW, AND REALLY HAVE SOMETHING AVAILABLE FOR OUR ENTIRE CUSTOMER BASE, UH, WITHIN AUSTIN TO, TO PARTICIPATE IN. 
          SO IF I COULD ASK IF YOU'VE MOVED TO 
          [02:25:01]
THE NEXT, THE NEXT SLIDE, AND I WOULD ALSO ASK, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS, UH, CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, AT THE END, I'M SURE THERE'LL BE, BE SOME QUESTIONS FOR ME, BUT IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT I'M, UM, UH, YOU HAVE ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS AS I GO THROUGH SOME OF THIS MATERIAL OR ANYTHING YOU'D LIKE TO ASK, OR I NEED ME TO CLARIFY, PLEASE LET ME KNOW. 
          SO AGAIN, I MENTIONED, THIS IS A VERY SMALL-SCALE PILOT. 
          UM, OUR, OUR PLAN FOR THIS IS WE HAVE A PROPOSED BUDGET OF ABOUT $20,000 FOR, UH, THIS PILOT WOULD GO FROM, UH, JANUARY, 2022 THROUGH DECEMBER, 2022, ACTUALLY IN, AS RON DELLA MENTIONED, UH, OUR CARE OF, UH, YOU KNOW, WE REALLY APPROACHED THIS AS A, UM, CALENDAR YEAR PILOT FOR 2022. 
          UH, WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING REALLY TO START THAT AND START THE COLLECTION OF DOLLARS AND THE TARIFF THAT, UH, RHONDELLA HAD DISCUSSED IN FEBRUARY. 
          SO, UM, AGAIN, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S IT'S COUNTY YEAR 2022. 
          UH, WE WOULD NOT BEGIN COLLECTING COSTS UNTIL FEBRUARY, UH, BUT WE'RE LOOKING AT REALLY, AGAIN, IT'S A CALENDAR YEAR PILOT. 
          UM, OUR, OUR ANNUAL ENERGY SAVINGS IS, BUT 9,500 CCS, WHICH, UH, AGAIN, THAT'S, THAT'S VERY SMALL SCALE, BUT CONSIDERING OUR CUSTOMER COUNTS, WHICH WE HAVE A LITTLE OVER 2000 RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS AND APPROXIMATELY 70 COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS. 
          SO, UH, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THE, THE, THE BUDGET FOR THIS IS MINIMAL AND, UM, VIA ENERGY SAVINGS IS, UH, CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT WE FEEL WE CAN ACHIEVE. 
          IT'S, IT'S NOT A HUGE NUMBER, BUT AGAIN, WE THINK THAT'S COST EFFECTIVE. 
          UM, SO AGAIN, 9,500 CCS AND NET OP ECONOMIC VISITS OF ABOUT $41,000. 
          AND, UH, YOU KNOW, I KNOW KIND OF HEARING SOME OF THE DISCUSSION EARLIER THAT'S MEASURED THROUGH THE TOTAL RESOURCE COST TEST IS HOW WE EVALUATED, UM, THE NET ECONOMIC BENEFITS AND REALLY THE, UM, COST-EFFECTIVENESS FOR, UH, ALL OF OUR, ALL THESE THREE PROGRAM COMPONENTS AND ALL THE MEASURES WITHIN THOSE PROGRAMS, JUST TO SPEAK TO THE, THE FUNDING AND HOW WE HAVE REQUESTED TO FUND THIS PROGRAM AND THAT $20,000 BUDGET. 
          UH, AGAIN, WE HAVE, UH, PUT TOGETHER A TARIFF THAT WE WOULD COLLECT COSTS CONCURRENTLY WITH PROGRAM IMPLEMENTATION, AND THAT WOULD BE A MONTHLY CHARGE FOR OUR RESIDENTIAL AND OUR GENERAL SERVICE, UH, SMALL COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS. 
          AND JUST TO GIVE YOU, UH, THE SCALE OF THAT AND, AND, AND HOW THAT WORKS OUT, THAT IS ABOUT A 59 CENT CHARGE PER MONTH FOR RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS FOR THE PILOT, THIS SIZE, AND FOR RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS FOR COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS, THAT'S ABOUT AN $8 AND 73 CENTS CHARGE PER MONTH. 
          UM, AGAIN, JUST LOOKING AT OUR CUSTOMER COUNCILS, A LITTLE OVER 2000 RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS AND 70 COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS AND WHERE WE EXPECT TO BE, UH, BUDGET AND BENEFITS TO BE FOR THOSE RESPECTIVE RATE CLASSES. 
          UM, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING TO CHARGE ON A MONTHLY BASIS PER CUSTOMER, ANY QUESTIONS THUS FAR? UM, I I'LL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER, UH, IF, IF NOT, I WANT TO GO INTO A LITTLE BIT OF DETAIL AROUND EACH ONE OF THESE PROGRAM COMPONENTS AND SOME OF THE MEASURES AND, YOU KNOW, IN USE AND USE THINGS THAT WE'RE LOOKING TO, UM, REALLY INFLUENCE IN TERMS OF, UM, PROVIDING ENERGY EFFICIENCY, UM, FOR, FOR THESE CUSTOMERS, PLEASE SEND TO ME GREAT. 
          UH, CAN I HAVE YOU SHIFT TO THE NEXT PAGE, PLEASE? SO, AS I MENTIONED, THE THREE PROGRAM COMPONENTS BEING HIGH EFFICIENCY, EQUIPMENT REBATES, A DIY, A HOME IMPROVEMENT CONSERVATION KIT IN THE DIRECT INSTALL MEASURES. 
          I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE, UM, PRESCRIPTIVE REBATES THAT WE HAVE IN THE PLAN. 
          SO AGAIN, WE LOOKED AT THINGS THAT WE THOUGHT, UM, THAT WE THOUGHT REALLY WE COULD, WE COULD PROMOTE, WE COULD GET CUSTOMERS INTERESTED IN, AND WE PROVIDE ENERGY SAVINGS COST EFFECTIVE WEEK. 
          SO WE LOOKED AT, UM, REALLY LOOKED AT FORCED THEIR FURNACES AND TWO DIFFERENT WATER HEATING PIECES OF, 
          [02:30:01]
UH, FULL PRESCRIPTIVE REBATES, AS WELL AS THE THERMOSTAT. 
          SO, UH, YOU SEE THE TABLE HERE, WE ARE PROPOSING THAT WE HAVE, UH, WE PROVIDE A $600 REBATE FOR A NATURAL GAS, FORCED AIR FURNACE, UH, AND 95% AFU E OR HIGHER, AND DO THAT IN COMPARISON. 
          SO THE EFFICIENCY SAVINGS THERE ARE COMING FROM, UM, THAT, THAT HIGH, THAT HIGHER AFUE, AS OPPOSED TO JUST YOUR STANDARD, 80% NATURAL, YOUR GAS FURNACE, THE SECOND COMPONENT BEING NATURAL GAS, TANKLESS WATER HEATER. 
          WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF SUCCESS, UM, WITH THOSE TANKLESS WATER HEATERS AND PROVIDING A LOT OF ENERGY SAVINGS. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, WE ARE LOOKING FOR, FOR THAT AT A VERY, AT A VERY HIGH, EVEN ON THE SCALE OF WATER HEATING FOR BOTH OUR TANKLESS AND TANK WATER HEATERS AT A HIGH UNIFORM ENERGY FACTOR. 
          SO, UH, TO QUALIFY PARTICIPANT WOULD HAVE A, UH, 0.8, SEVEN UEF OR HIGHER FOR A TANKLESS WATER HEATER, AND THAT'S A $350 REBATE WE'RE PROPOSING FOR THAT EQUIPMENT. 
          AND, UH, WE ALSO WANTED TO LOOK, YOU KNOW, WE, WE AGAIN HAVE HAD A LOT OF SUCCESS WITH THE TANKLESS WATER HEATERS WE HAVE SEEN, UM, THAT THAT'S BEEN A VERY COST-EFFECTIVE AND I PROVIDE A LOT OF ENERGY SAVINGS, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU REALIZE THAT, UH, THAT'S NOT A GREAT OPTION, PERHAPS FOR EVERY CUSTOMER. 
          AND SO WE DO WANT TO LOOK AT, UH, NATURAL GAS TOWARDS TANK WATER HEATERS AS WELL. 
          AND SO FOR THAT MEASURE, WE'RE LOOKING AT, UH, AGAIN, REALLY ON, ON THE HIGHER EFFICIENCY END OF THE SPECTRUM FOR A CUSTOMER TO THAT INSTALLS A 0.7 OEF OR HIGHER, UH, EQUIPMENT, UH, IN TERMS OF STORAGE TANK, WATER HEATER, THAT WOULD BE ELIGIBLE FOR A HUNDRED DOLLARS REBATE. 
          AND THEN THE LAST MEASURE REALLY IS, UM, SOMETHING THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD A LOT OF, UM, A LOT OF GROWTH IN, IN, IN RECENT YEARS IN TERMS OF, UH, CUSTOMER INTEREST IN THAT IS A ENERGY STAR QUALIFIED, SMART THERMOSTAT. 
          SO THAT'S NOT JUST A PROGRAMMABLE THERMOSTAT. 
          THAT IS A THERMOSTAT THAT, UM, IS ENERGY STAR CERTIFIED AND IS A LEARNING CAPABLE THERMOSTATS. 
          SO THINGS THAT A LOT OF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH SUCH AS NEST AND ECO BEAD, THERE'S OTHERS THAT HAVE OPTIONS THERE SO THAT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE SAVINGS THERE ARE, ARE REALLY BASED ON, UM, SOMEONE HAVING THAT TYPE OF TECHNOLOGY AS A THERMOSTAT THAT'S, THAT'S LEARNING WHERE THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE TO PROGRAM IT. 
          UM, IT'S, UM, IT'S IN, IN REALLY BEING COMPARED TO KIND OF YOUR STANDARD STANDARD THERMOSTAT, THAT WOULD BE IN A CUSTOMER'S HOME. 
          SO THOSE ARE, UM, THOSE ARE REALLY THE FOUR MEASURES WE FOCUSED ON, UH, IN BELIEVE THE DELIVERY MODEL THERE WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD, WE TRY TO LEVERAGE, UH, SOME, SOME MARKETING AND OUTREACH TO, UH, PROMOTE EDUCATION AWARENESS THAT WE HAVE THESE AVAILABLE SHOW CUSTOMERS, THE BENEFITS OF HAVING THIS TYPE OF EQUIPMENT. 
          UH, WE'D ALSO LIKE TO WORK WITH OUR, OUR LOCAL TRADE ALLIES AND CONTRACTORS WHO ARE DOING THINGS LIKE INSTALLATIONS FOR FURNACES AND WATER HEATERS, UM, AND REACH OUT AND REALLY PROMOTE THAT WE HAVE THESE SPEEDS REBATES TO OUR CUSTOMERS, AND THEN TO PARTICIPATE THE, UH, THE CUSTOMER WOULD BE JUST REQUIRED TO PROVIDE SOME INFORMATION ON THE EQUIPMENT THAT, THAT VERIFIED THEY HAD PURCHASED AND INSTALLED THAT EQUIPMENT THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, WE THEN HERE AT CENTER POINT ENERGY WOULD VERIFY, UH, TO PROVIDE THEM THE REBATE. 
          UH, AND THEN WE WOULD TRACK THAT REALLY. 
          AND JUST TO, JUST TO MONITOR OUR PERFORMANCE AND, YOU KNOW, TRACK AT A, UH, AT A EDDY SITE LEVEL, BASED ON THE EQUIPMENT INSTALLED WHAT THE, UH, WHAT WE WOULD HAVE TO MAKE THE ACTUAL ENERGY SAVINGS TO BE FOR THIS PROGRAM, WHERE THIS IS OUR LARGEST BUDGET OF THE THREE COMPONENTS, UH, FOR THIS SPECIFIC, UH, REBATE PROGRAM. 
          WE'RE LOOKING AT A $10,500 BUDGET WITH ANNUAL ENERGY SAVINGS OF 2300 TCF. 
          AND BASED ON THAT TRC, A NET ECONOMIC BENEFITS OF A LITTLE UNDER $20,000 MOVING ONTO THE NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. 
          SO THE HOME CONSERVATION IMPROVEMENT PRODUCTS, I KNOW INTERESTING, YOU SAID EARLIER IS, UM, IT'S A VERY SIMPLE PROGRAM. 
          IT'S, IT'S VERY 
          [02:35:01]
BASIC, BUT I THINK ONE OF THE GREAT THINGS ABOUT THIS PROGRAM IS THAT IT'S SOMETHING THAT CUSTOMERS CAN, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S REALLY A NO COST INTRODUCTION FOR CUSTOMERS TO, TO, OR, OR OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE IN YOUR VIEW EFFICIENCY. 
          SO, YOU KNOW, EVEN IF, UH, CUSTOMERS ARE LOOKING TO REPLACE THE EQUIPMENT OR, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS A SENDING THEIR BUDGET, OR WHEN THEY'RE, THEN THEY'RE PLANNING TO DO FOR, FOR THE PROGRAM HERE, IT'S SOMETHING WHERE, UM, THE CUSTOMER COULD, WE WOULD PROVIDE A, A WEB RESOURCE AND A PHONE NUMBER AS WELL, WHERE A CUSTOMER COULD REALLY REQUEST KITS CONSISTING OF SHOWER HEADS, FAUCET, EARS, BATHROOM MIRRORS, REALLY WATER SAVING MEASURES THAT, UM, FOR THE CUSTOMERS THAT HAVE, UH, GAS WATER HEATING, THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO, UH, SAVE NOT ONLY WATER, BUT, UH, UH, NATURAL GAS, UH, THIRD USAGE FOR REDUCE WATER USAGE REDUCED, UM, REDUCE HEATING COSTS FOR THAT WATER. 
          AND SO, AGAIN, THAT'S, THAT'S REALLY A VERY SIMPLE, UH, DELIVERY MECHANISM IN WHICH THE CUSTOMER WOULD BE ABLE TO, UM, GO ONLINE AND REQUEST A KIT THAT WOULD CONSIST OF, UH, A NUMBER OF PERHAPS A SHOWERHEAD AND TWO AIR RAIDERS. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD VERIFY THAT THE, IT WAS A CNP NATURAL GAS CUSTOMER. 
          UM, WE WOULD HAVE A CAP ON THE NUMBER OF, UH, PIECES OF EQUIPMENT. 
          SO A CUSTOMER COULDN'T COULDN'T COULDN'T LOG IN AND REQUEST 2020, UH, UH, SHOWERHEADS OR, OR 30 AREAS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. 
          UM, BUT, UH, ESSENTIALLY IT WOULD BE, IT WOULD BE A KIT OF THOSE COMPONENTS THAT WOULD BE DIRECT MAIL DIRECTLY TO THEIR HOME, AND WE HAVE INSTRUCTIONS FOR, FOR THEM TO INSTALL. 
          SO IT'S, IT'S REALLY EASY FOR THEM TO PARTICIPATE. 
          AND THIS IS ONE THAT'S VERY COST-EFFECTIVE FOR US, CAUSE IT'S, IT'S RELATIVELY, UM, UM, SIMPLE IN TERMS OF THE IMPLEMENTATION SIDE, WHICH AGAIN, WE'RE HAVING TO WORK AT WITH, WE'RE KIND OF HAVING A VERY SMALL SCALE AND PILOT. 
          SO THE OVERALL BUDGET FOR THIS PROGRAM IS ABOUT $2,900, 890 CCS AND ENERGY SAVINGS, AND A NET ECONOMIC BENEFITS OF A LITTLE LETTER, $4,000. 
          WE WOULD EXPECT WITH THE COMBINATION OF, UH, EQUIPMENT THAT WE WOULD SEND THAT WE COULD REACH POTENTIALLY 65 CUSTOMERS. 
          IT COULD BE A LITTLE BIT UNDER THAT, BUT THAT'S KIND OF AN ESTIMATE, UM, UH, BASICALLY, AND AT OTHER STATES KIND OF LOOKING AT THE, UM, THE BUDGET LEVEL THAT WE HAVE HERE AND WITH THAT, I'LL MOVE ON TO THE THIRD AND FINAL COMPONENT. 
          AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE, UM, WE REALLY WANTED TO LOOK AT IN TERMS OF THE COMPREHENSIVENESS OR PORTFOLIO. 
          AND, AND GIVEN THAT WE DO HAVE SOME SMALL COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS, WE WOULD LIKE TO PROVIDE AN OPPORTUNITY, UM, FOR THOSE CUSTOMERS FOR, UH, ENERGY EFFICIENCY, UH, PARTICIPATION. 
          AND, AND THAT'S REALLY WHERE WE LOOKED AT, UH, FOR, FOR A PROGRAM THIS SCALE ON THIS SIDE, LOOKING AT SOME OF THE THINGS WE DO FOR COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS IN OUR OTHER, OTHER STATES IN OUR JURISDICTIONS, WE HAVE A LOT OF DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITIES, HAVE A LOT OF CUSTOM TYPE PROGRAMS. WE DIDN'T REALLY FEEL LIKE THAT WOULD, UH, WE HAD A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT AND THIS KIND OF INTRODUCTORY PILOT, BUT WHERE WE DID FEEL LIKE WE COULD PROVIDE SOME BENEFIT, SOME VALUE FOR THOSE COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS IS THROUGH THIS DIRECT INSTALL, UH, EQUIPMENT REPLACEMENT PROGRAM. 
          SO WHAT WE LOOKED AT DOING IS, UH, WHAT WE REALLY WOULD LIKE TO DO IS AGAIN, JUST A TURNKEY PROGRAM WHERE A COMMERCIAL CUSTOMER, THE COMMERCIAL FACILITY, UM, COULD HAVE, UH, LIKED THE LIKE EQUIPMENT REPLACEMENT WITH, UM, EQUIPMENT SUCH AS LOW-FLOW, UH, FAUCET AERATORS. 
          THEY PRE-READ SPRAY VOWS, WHICH ARE PROBABLY, UH, I WOULD EXPECT THAT WOULD BE THE BIGGEST COMPONENT OF THIS PROGRAM FOR FACILITIES THAT HAVE, UM, YOU KNOW, ANY TYPE OF KITCHEN EQUIPMENT AND DISH WASHING EQUIPMENT, THINGS LIKE THAT, WHERE, UH, WE WOULD PUT A, UM, A VERY EFFICIENT, UM, UNIT PIECE OF EQUIPMENT IN TERMS OF, UM, WATER USAGE. 
          AND AGAIN, WITH, WITH, UH, THE NATURAL GAS WATER HEATING THAT WOULD ELIMINATE OR NOT ELIMINATE, 
          [02:40:01]
BUT IT WOULD LOWER NOT ONLY THEIR WATER USAGE, BUT ALSO THEIR ENERGY USAGE, UH, IN TERMS OF TERMS. SO THE EXPECTED BUDGET FOR THIS PROGRAM IS ABOUT $6,600. 
          UH, WE DO EXPECT TO SEE, UH, FOR THAT BUDGET, YOU KNOW, A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT ENERGY SAVINGS OF 6,300 TCS ON AN ANNUAL BASIS WITH THE OVERALL, UH, NET ECONOMIC BENEFITS OF, UH, ABOUT $18,000, UH, OVER, YOU KNOW, OVER THE LIFE OF THE PROGRAM, PARTICIPATING CUSTOMERS, UH, DID EXPECT THAT, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD EXPECT THERE WOULD BE MULTIPLE UNITS, EACH FACILITY. 
          SO PROBABLY LOOKING AT FOUR TO FIVE CUSTOMERS FOR BEING ABLE TO PARTICIPATE, UH, AT, AT THE SCALE, UM, AND A BUDGET OF WHAT WE HAVE ALLOCATED FOR THIS SPECIFIC PROGRAM SEGMENT. 
          AND I THINK THAT'S REALLY THE ONLY, UH, THAT'S REALLY ALL I HAVE IN TERMS OF PRESENTATION IN TERMS OF SLIDES. 
          UH, I DID JUST WANT TO, UH, REITERATE THAT AGAIN. 
          WE, YOU KNOW, WE TRIED TO HONE IN ON SOME VERY, SOME VERY SPECIFIC THINGS WE COULD DO THAT WOULD TARGET IT, BROUGHT AUDIENCE, BUT, UH, THINGS WE THOUGHT WE COULD DELIVER COST EFFECTIVELY, UM, WITH A SMALL SCALE PILOT AND PROVIDE SOME TANGIBLE ENERGY SAVINGS. 
          AND, AND I DID WANT TO ADD THAT, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE, WE ARE, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY, UM, YOU KNOW, EXPECTING TO PROVIDE THOSE MEASURABLE, UH, ENERGY SAVINGS, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE REALLY DO JUST ALSO WANT TO EDUCATE CUSTOMERS, PROMOTE AWARENESS AND, AND REALLY GATHERED FEEDBACK FROM THIS PILOT AS WELL, TO LOOK AND SEE, UM, YOU KNOW, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT, UH, CERTAINLY SUCCESSFUL, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE WOULD, WE WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE AND IN SUBSEQUENT YEARS. 
          SO I THINK WE, YOU KNOW, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, WE REALLY WANT TO LOOK AT THIS, THIS, THIS FIRST YEAR IMPLEMENTING SUCH A PROGRAM, UH, AS A GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO GET FEEDBACK FROM, YOU KNOW, OUR CUSTOMERS AND PARTICIPANTS IN THE PROGRAM AND REALLY LEARN, UM, AND, AND REFINE WAYS THAT WE CAN PROVIDE OUTREACH TO PROMOTE PROGRAMS, UH, YOU KNOW, LEARN WHICH, WHICH MEASURES ARE, ARE WORKING REALLY WELL, WHICH THINGS WE NEED TO IMPROVE ON, YOU KNOW, OPPORTUNITIES TO, TO CHANGE THE PROGRAM IN THE FUTURE. 
          SO I THINK IT WILL BE A REALLY GOOD OPPORTUNITY TRUST TO, UM, TO GET SO OF THAT KIND OF INFORMATION AND, AND, AND, YOU KNOW, USE THAT TO, TO, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, FURTHER DEVELOP THESE KINDS OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR FUTURE PROGRAM YEARS. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE PRESENTATION. 
          I THINK WE DO HAVE SOME QUESTIONS. 
          SURE. 
          BE HAPPY TO FEEL BOTH. 
          THANK YOU. 
          I'M JUST WONDERING THE OTHER, UH, UH, APPLIANCES, UH, IF ANY OF THAT COULD DO CONSTRUCTION. 
          YES. 
          UH, WE, WE WOULD, WE WOULD OFFER THE, AND I THINK YOU'RE WHEN YOU'RE SPEAKING APPLIANCES, EQUIPMENT REBATES, THINGS LIKE WATER HEATING, UH, FURNACES, IS THAT CORRECT? AM I READING YOUR QUESTION CORRECTLY? YES. 
          YES. 
          SO THIS IS SOMETHING WHERE, UM, THOSE EQUIPMENT REBATES WOULD BE APPLICABLE FOR BOTH NEW CONSTRUCTION AND RETROFIT. 
          ABSOLUTELY. 
          UH, I HAD A QUESTION AND THAT IS WHY DID YOU CHOOSE A FLAT RATE, UH, FOR YOUR CUSTOMERS AS OPPOSED TO CHARGING BY THE CUBIC FOOT? YEAH. 
          SO IN TERMS OF THE, UM, THE VOLUME, YOU KNOW, JUST, JUST A FLAT MONTHLY CHARGE VERSUS A, UM, A VOLUMETRIC RATE, UH, AND, AND KEEP, KEEP WATER. 
          NO, IF YOU'RE ON, UH, FROM ONE OF OUR, UM, UH, WHAT AM I SPENDING FOR COLLEAGUES KEEP ON, I BELIEVE, MAYBE ON THE CALL. 
          SO HE MAY BE OUT TO BE ABLE TO ADD A LITTLE BIT TO THAT, BUT I THINK WE JUST LOOKED AT IT AS, UM, YOU KNOW, RATHER THAN TRYING TO PROJECT OUT WHAT THOSE BILLING DETERMINANTS WOULD BE IN TERMS OF USAGE AND, UH, THE KIND OF THE VARIABILITY OF THAT FOR 2022, WE JUST KIND OF WANTED TO LOOK AT IT ON A, ON A PER CUSTOMER BASIS. 
          WE DID, WE DID WANT TO SPLIT THAT BETWEEN OUR RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS. 
          UM, BUT JUST LOOK AT THAT AS KIND OF A SIMPLER WAY OF, OF DOING IT ON A, ON A PER MONTH BASIS, RATHER THAN, UM, YOU KNOW, BASING THAT ON, ON USAGE. 
          AND PERHAPS THERE BEING SOME VARIABILITY THERE, KEYS, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO ADD TO THAT, OR SURE. 
          IF YOU'RE STILL ON THE CALL 
          [02:45:02]
THAT'S RIGHT. 
          WE WERE JUST WITH THIS BEING A PILOT, UM, AND FOR, YOU KNOW, UM, TRYING TO CALCULATE THE BUDGET, UM, WE JUST FELT LIKE IT WAS, UM, PROBABLY MORE APPROPRIATE TO START BY JUST DOING A CUSTOMER CHARGE AS OPPOSED TO VOLUMETRIC CHARGE, UM, TO ALLOW US TO MANAGE THE BUDGET BETTER. 
          ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS, COMMISSIONERS? I JUST HAVE QUICK QUESTION. 
          UM, SHANE, SO, SO THE, THE RE THE 59 CENTS, UH, RESIDENTIAL AND $8 FOR COMMERCIAL, UM, IS THAT JUST TO COVER, TO RUN THE PROGRAM, UH, TO COVER THE BUDGET OR ALSO TO COVER THE EQUIPMENT AND REBATES? THAT'S ONE QUESTION, AND THEN I'M GUESSING THAT THIS RATE IS FOR THE DURATION OF THE PILOT, AND THEN ONCE YOU GAIN MORE CUSTOMERS, THEN THESE RATES WILL BE REVISITED. 
          YEAH. 
          LET ME, LET ME TAKE THAT IN, IN, IN BOTH PARTS. 
          SO, UH, I THINK THE, THE FIRST QUESTION AROUND THE BUDGET THAT YES, THAT, THAT IS, AND I, TO MAKE SURE I'M UNDERSTANDING CORRECTLY, I THINK YOU WERE SPEAKING DIRECTLY TO THE BUDGET FOR THE EQUIPMENT REBATES, IS THAT CORRECT? WELL, I WAS LOOKING AT THE $20,000 BUDGET DOLLARS. 
          SO I WAS WONDERING IF THE 59 CENTS AN $8 JUST COVERED THAT OR COVER THAT PLUS THE EQUIPMENT AND REBATES. 
          NO. 
          SO THAT THE, THE REBATES AND ALL THE DELIVERY COSTS FOR THE PRO THIS PROGRAM IS INCLUDED IN THAT $20,000, UH, PROGRAM BUDGET. 
          SO I WANT TO MAKE SURE I'M ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION CORRECTLY, BUT SO THAT, THAT, THAT MONTHLY MONTHLY CHARGE, UM, IS, IS DESIGNED TO, UM, COLLECT THAT, THAT $20,000 PROGRAM BUDGET, WHICH COVERS EVERYTHING FROM, UH, THE, THE PER UNIT EQUIPMENT REBATES THAT WE WOULD OFFER, UM, THE DIRECT INSTALLATION KITS OR THE DIRECT INSTALLATION OF THE COMMERCIAL EQUIPMENT, THE HOME CONSERVATION IMPROVEMENT KITS. 
          UM, IT'S, IT ENCOMPASSES, UH, ALL THE COSTS THAT WE WOULD EXPECT TO INCUR FOR, FOR THAT PROGRAM, TO YOUR QUESTION AROUND THE, UM, DURATION OF, OF THAT, UH, OF THOSE RATES AND THAT, THAT MONTHLY CUSTOMER CHARGE. 
          YES, THERE'S THE EXPECTATION IS THAT IS FOR PROGRAM YEAR 2022. 
          AND, UH, YOU KNOW, I, I THINK WHAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVEN'T, WE HAVEN'T DEVELOPED ANYTHING CERTAINLY BEYOND THAT, BUT I THINK THE EXPECTATION WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, THAT RIGHT NOW, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS THE DURATION OF THE PILOT. 
          AND I, I CERTAINLY THINK WE WOULD, UM, WE WOULD, WE CERTAINLY HOPE TO EXTEND THAT INTO 20, 23 AND YEARS BEYOND. 
          AND I, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT IT'S SOMETHING WHERE WE WOULD LOOK, UM, YOU KNOW, LATER ON DROP PROGRAMMING OR DURING CALENDAR YEAR 2022, PARTICULARLY ONCE WE'VE HAD, UM, A FEW MONTHS OF IMPLEMENTATION OF THIS PILOT PROGRAM, UM, THAT WE'VE GOT SOME INFORMATION FOR, WE BEGIN LOOKING AT 2023, UH, ANY KIND OF CHANGES TO OUR BUDGET, TWEAKS TO THE PROGRAM DESIGN, UH, PLAN AND THINGS LIKE THAT. 
          LOOKING AT OUR NEW CUSTOMER COUNTS REALLY TO DEVELOP, UM, A NEW BUDGET FOR THAT POTENTIAL 20, 23 PROGRAM YEAR. 
          UM, AND, AND SO, YOU KNOW, AND THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD GO INTO EFFECT THE NEXT YEAR. 
          AND JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I'M, HOPEFULLY THAT'S COVERING YOUR QUESTION. 
          I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT I'M ANSWERING THAT CORRECTLY. 
          SURE. 
          I HAD ANOTHER QUESTION. 
          WHAT IS THE ADMINISTRATIVE COST ATTACHED TO THIS PROGRAM? SO THE, I WILL TELL YOU THAT IF I DON'T THINK I HAVE IT, UM, SPECIFICALLY IDENTIFIED IN THIS PARTICULAR, UM, SLIDE DECK THAT YOU FOLKS HAVE. 
          SO IN TERMS OF THE, UH, ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS, WHEN WE KIND OF, WE'RE LOOKING AT OUT OF THE $20,000 BUDGET, THE DIRECT INCENTIVE COSTS TO CUSTOMERS. 
          [02:50:01]
AND WHEN I, WHEN I SAY DIRECT INCENTIVE COST, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE CUSTOMER REBATES FOR A DISTILLATION OF THE HIGH EFFICIENT EQUIPMENT, WATER HEATERS, UM, FURNACES, THERMOSTATS, AS WELL AS THE, UH, DIRECT VALUES EQUIPMENT FOR THE DIRECT INSTALL AND THOSE HOLES, THOSE MAIL-IN HOME CONSERVATION IMPROVEMENT KIDS, UH, THAT IS, UH, ABOUT $11,300 OUT OF THE $20,000 BUCKET. 
          UM, THE REST OF THOSE COSTS ARE DELIVERY COSTS FOR IMPLEMENTATION OF THE PROGRAM. 
          YOU KNOW, THINGS LIKE MAILING THE, THE KITS, UM, CONTRACTOR COSTS FOR THE DIRECT INSTALL, PROGRAM, MARKETING DELIVERY, UH, THINGS OF, UM, THINGS LIKE THAT. 
          SO, UH, ESSENTIALLY A LITTLE BIT OVER HALF OF THE TOTAL PROGRAM COST IS THE, UH, DIRECT TO PARTICIPANT EQUIPMENT BENEFIT EITHER IN THE FORM OF A REBATE OR THE EQUIPMENT THAT IS PROVIDED. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          UH, HEARING NO FURTHER QUESTIONS, SHEA, I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND THE PRESENTATION. 
          I THINK ONE, DELLA, DID YOU SAY YOU HAVE SOME FINAL COMMENTS? THANK YOU FOR THE CHANEL OPPORTUNITY, UM, BEFORE, YOU KNOW, BEFORE I FOLLOW THE NEXT STEPS, I MEAN, I REALLY THINK THAT YOUR DISCUSSION TONIGHT ABOUT THE TOMMY DISCUSSION ABOUT THE FRAMEWORK FOR THESE ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAMS ABOUT THE COST EFFECTIVENESS, THE ITEMS, THE TWO RESOLUTIONS THAT YOU ALL TABLED, IT'S VERY TIMELY, UM, TO LOOK AT SOME POLICY GUIDANCE OR POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS SINCE NOW, YOU KNOW, THERE'S TEXAS GAS, WE'VE GOT CENTERPOINT ENERGY, THERE'S THAT MUCH ENERGY. 
          UM, SO I JUST, I JUST REALLY THINK IT'S A TIMELY THAT YOU SET UP THE WORK GROUPS SO THAT WE DO ACTUALLY HAVE LIKE, YOU KNOW, A UNIT, A UNIFORM UNIFIED POLICY TO FOLLOW, UM, GOING FORWARD. 
          UM, BUT JUST AS WITH THIS PROGRAM, UM, AND THE PROPOSED TARIFF, THE, UH, SO THE PROCESS WOULD BE THE RECOMMENDATION FROM THE, FROM, FROM YOUR COMMISSION, UM, TO CITY COUNCIL. 
          AND WE HAVE TO, WE'RE GOING TO COUNCIL ON DECEMBER 9TH TO SET UP PUBLIC HEARING, BECAUSE THIS IS A NEW RATE. 
          SO IT TRIGGERS THE CITY CHARTER REQUIREMENT FOR, UM, A PUBLIC HEARING. 
          AND THE FIRST COUNCIL MEETING IN JANUARY IS THE 27TH. 
          SO JANUARY 27TH WOULD BE THE, UH, CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING AND, AND THE CITY COUNCIL WOULD TAKE ACTION, UM, ON, ON THIS, ON THIS NEW PROGRAM AND RATE. 
          GOTCHA. 
          SO JUST SO I'M CLEAR, YOU'RE, YOU'RE ASKING FOR A RECOMMENDATION BY THE COMMISSION TO, TO COUNCIL TO APPROVE THE PROGRAM THAT'S PRESENTED YES. 
          OR WITH ANY INPUT, UM, RECOMMENDATIONS ON, ON THE PROPOSAL, ON THE PROPOSED TARIFF, IN THE PROGRAM. 
          DO YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS FLAT FEE VERSUS HER ENERGY? SO PRIOR TO, UH, SO MY EXPERIENCE, I MEAN, THE EXPERIENCE, UM, WHEN WE HAD THE VOLUMETRIC RATE, I MEAN, TEXAS GAS FOR A LONG TIME HAD THE VOLUMETRIC RATE AND IT WAS AN ANNUAL BUDGET. 
          AND I THINK THE CHALLENGE WAS FOR BUDGETING FOR THEM TO BUDGET AND PROJECT, WHAT IS GOING TO BE THE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE REVENUE BROUGHT IN TO FUND THE BUDGET FOR THE FOLLOWING YEAR. 
          SO THERE WAS THIS CONSTANT, YOU KNOW, UPWARD, DOWNWARD, UM, THERE WAS A VARIABLE. 
          AND SO THE FIXED RATE WHILE, I MEAN, I'VE HEARD YOU ALL SAY IT'S REGRESSIVE IT JUST, I GUESS IT DOES ALLOW FOR, UM, LOOKING AT PROJECT PROJECTIONS AND PROJECTING THE, YOU KNOW, THE BUDGET FOR A LONGER TERMS. AND THEN YOU CAN, YOU KNOW, KEEP YOUR, YOU KNOW, YOUR MARKETING MATERIALS AND YOUR APPLICATION. 
          ANYWAY, THAT'S JUST ALL VERY ADMINISTRATIVE. 
          SO, UM, I DO THINK THOUGH THE, THE CHALLENGE WITH THE VOLUMETRIC RATE WAS JUST IN KEEPING THE PROJECTIONS AND MATCHING IT UP. 
          UM, SO, BUT THAT'S, YOU KNOW, AND AGAIN, UM, IF YOU HAVE THE ANNUAL RATE OR A BI-ANNUAL RATE, I MEAN, MAYBE IT'S NOT A TRY IT, UH, YOU KNOW, A THREE-YEAR BUDGET, IT'S A TWO-YEAR BUDGET, UM, THAT IT ALLOWS FOR SOME ADJUSTMENTS 
          [02:55:01]
AND TWEAKS AS THINGS ARE CHANGING, UM, POLICY CHANGES. 
          SO, UM, I KIND OF HAVE A, I'M JUST LOOKING AT IT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE FROM A, FROM A BUDGETING PERSPECTIVE AND JUST TRYING TO KEEP, YOU KNOW, JUST FOR THE EASE OF ADMINISTERING. 
          UM, SO THAT'S, THAT'S MY THOUGHTS, I GUESS MAYBE I DON'T UNDERSTAND YOUR ROLE. 
          I THOUGHT THAT YOUR ROLE WAS TO BE LOOKING OUT FOR THE CONSUMER. 
          UM, MY ROLE IS A REGULATORY ROLE, UH, THE REGULATORY ROLE OF, UH, WE'VE GOT THE, THE COUNCIL ADOPTED, WE ARE LOOKING OUT FOR THE CONSUMER AND THE RATE PAYER. 
          I MEAN, WHEN THERE'S A RATE AT A RATE CASE, UH, YOU TRY TO MINIMIZE THE RATE IMPACT AND ENSURE THAT THE RATES ARE APPROPRIATE AND JUSTIFIED AND REASONABLE, AND THAT THE RATE DESIGN, UM, YOU KNOW, LOOKING OUT FOR THE RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER. 
          UM, BUT MY ROLE IS A IN REGULATORY IS THAT THERE'S COMPLIANCE WITH THE, UH, WITH THE T YOU KNOW, WITH THE, THE COUNCIL ADOPTED TARIFF. 
          OKAY. 
          SO, UM, YES, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S THE ROLE OF OUR OFFICE AND IF THERE'S OTHER POLICIES, YOU KNOW, SET FORTH ANOTHER BY CITY COUNCIL, OR, UH, THAT HELPS SET THE FRAMEWORK FOR THIS PROGRAM, FOR EXAMPLE, THEN, UM, WE WOULD LOOK AT CERTAINLY IMPLEMENTING IT, BUT, UM, THAT'S, THAT'S THE ROLE OF THE REGULATORY OFFICE. 
          OKAY. 
          SO THEY JUST, THE OTHER QUESTION IS AROUND HOW, HOW DID THE ADOPTION OF THE AUSTIN CLUB EQUITY PLAN FACTOR INTO YOUR ANALYSIS OF THIS PROPOSAL? HOW DID THE, AND THIS I HAVEN'T THIS, THE CENTER POINT PROPOSAL. 
          YEAH. 
          UM, I HAVE, I HAVE NOT ANALYZED, I JUST RECEIVED THE TARIFF, LIKE ON NOVEMBER THE 10TH, BUT YOU'RE RECOMMENDING THAT WE RECOMMEND THAT I'M NOT RECOMMENDING, I AM NOT, NO, I AM SEEKING A RECOMMENDATION FROM THIS COMMISSION TO CITY COUNCIL. 
          OKAY. 
          REGARDLESS OF WHAT IT IS, THAT'S HELPFUL. 
          YES. 
          UM, I AM JUST CURIOUS IF, UH, IF SHEA OR, OR KEITH WAS ON THE CALL WHEN, UH, MR. ROBBINS GAVE HIS PRESENTATION EARLIER TALKING ABOUT THE RELATIVE INEFFICIENCY OF SOME OF THE EQUIPMENT THAT THEY'RE LOOKING TO MAKE ELIGIBLE FOR REBATE. 
          AND IF THEY COULD COMMENT ON THAT, THINK THEY'RE ON MUTE. 
          I THINK THEY'RE DOING SOMETHING ELSE. 
          I APOLOGIZE. 
          I WAS ON MRS. SHAY WITH CENTER POINT ENERGY. 
          SO I DID NOT HEAR ALL OF MR. ROBBINS PRESENTATION AND I, I'M NOT AS FAMILIAR WITH THE, I DON'T KNOW THAT I CAN COMMENT ON, UM, ANY OF THE INFORMATION THAT HE HAD PRESENTED. 
          UM, IF THAT'S, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE ASKING, I, I, I WILL JUST KIND OF A, UH, TO SPEAK TO WHAT THE ANALYSIS THAT WE HAD DONE FOR, UM, THE, THE PROGRAMS AND THE SPECIFIC MEASURES THAT WE ARE PROPOSING AND THE CENTER POINT ENERGY PILOT, YOU KNOW, WE, WE TOOK A LOT OF DETAIL TO LOOK AT, UM, THE ENERGY SAVINGS. 
          WE, WE LOOKED A LOT AT, UH, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANY FAMILIARITY WITH THE TECHNICAL REFERENCE MANUAL FOR TEXAS, THAT IS, UH, SOMETHING THE ELECTRIC UTILITIES USE FOR, UM, ALGORITHMS AND SAVINGS FOR DIFFERENT EQUIPMENT MEASURES. 
          SO, UH, YOU KNOW, WE LOOKED AT THAT ANALYZE THAT AS WELL AS TECHNICAL REFERENCE MANUALS THAT WOULD USE AND, AND ENERGY SAVINGS OUT RHYTHMS FOR, UM, UM, THAT, THAT HAVE BEEN PUT TOGETHER BY, THROUGH A LOT OF RESEARCH, UH, IN OUR, IN OUR OTHER JURISDICTIONS, UH, WEATHERIZE THAT, UM, TO BE VERY SPECIFIC TO THE AWESOME WEATHER ZONE. 
          SO I FEEL VERY CONFIDENT THAT THE SAVINGS THAT WE'RE PUTTING FORTH FOR THE PROGRAMS OR FOR THE MEASURES, UM, ARE, ARE, ARE VALID, GOOD SAVINGS. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, WE, WE, WE CERTAINLY WON'T BE ABLE TO, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT SOMETHING WHERE WE'RE GOING TO MEASURE EACH INDIVIDUAL, UM, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT ACTUAL METER DATA FOR EACH INDIVIDUAL, UM, REBATE THAT WE PROVIDED IN AND THROUGHOUT OUR ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAMS IN EVERY STATE. 
          BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, WE DO USE THE, UM, REALLY THE LATEST, 
          [03:00:01]
UM, AND, AND, AND, AND GREATEST THAT WE CAN IN TERMS OF, UM, EXPECTED ENERGY SAVINGS FOR DIFFERENT MEASURES, UM, IN DIFFERENT APPLICATIONS, IN DIFFERENT CLIMATE ZONES. 
          AND I FEEL VERY CONFIDENT ABOUT HOW WE PUT TOGETHER THAT ANALYSIS. 
          SO THIS IS MORE OF A COMMENT, I SUPPOSE, THAN A QUESTION, BUT I, I DO FEEL IN LIGHT OF THE EARLIER DISCUSSION THAT IT IS, IT'S CLEAR THAT COST-EFFECTIVENESS IS AN IMPORTANT TOPIC TO THIS BODY. 
          UM, AND RHONDELLA APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS, THAT THE DISCUSSION IS TIMELY. 
          UM, AND IT DOES FEEL LIKE WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY AT THE ONSET OF THIS PILOT TO, TO REALLY INFLUENCE THE PROGRAM DESIGN, OR AT LEAST HAVE OUR COMMENTS HEARD IN THE PROGRAM DESIGN. 
          UM, I DID WANT TO MAKE SURE FROM A TIMING PERSPECTIVE, UM, THAT I, I APPRECIATED WHAT YOU SAID. 
          RHONDELLA, SO THIS COMMISSION WILL MEET AGAIN IN DECEMBER PRIOR TO, I HEARD YOU SAY THAT THE COUNCIL MEETING IS JANUARY 27TH. 
          IF, IF THERE IS A RESOLUTION OR RECOMMENDATION PROPOSED RESOLUTION PROPOSED AT THAT OUR DECEMBER MEETING IS THAT TIMELY FOR, TO BE CLEAR WEEK. 
          THERE ACTUALLY IS NOT A DECEMBER MEETING. 
          UH, UH, THERE IS A JANUARY 18TH MEETING, WHICH WOULD BE PRIOR TO THE COUNCIL. 
          SO WE DO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO VISIT THIS, UM, IDEALLY IN LIGHT OF KIND OF BOTH, BOTH DISCUSSIONS WITH TGS AND WITH CENTER POINTS TO, TO COME UP WITH A KIND OF COLLECTIVE CONSTRUCT, UM, FOR RMC IN TERMS OF COST-EFFECTIVENESS OF THESE ENERGY EFFICIENCY MEASURES. 
          WELL, LET ME ASK THAT QUESTION. 
          WHAT IS THE, I GUESS, THE TH THE DIFFERENT OPTIONS WE HAVE, WE CAN EITHER RECOMMEND COUNCIL APPROVE THE TARIFF AS IT'S WRITTEN. 
          WE COULD RECOMMEND THE, UH, DISAPPROVED THE COUNCIL, THE TARIFF HAS WRITTEN OR WEEKEND, UH, REVISIT THIS ISSUE IN JANUARY FOR, UH, SOME TYPE OF RECOMMENDATION AT THAT POINT THAT WOULD THEN GO TO COUNCIL. 
          IS THAT CORRECT? YES. 
          THAT THOSE, THOSE WOULD BE THE THREE, I MEAN, I SAID JANUARY THE 18TH, THE COUNCIL MEETING IS THE 27TH. 
          SO THAT WOULD BE ABOUT NINE DAYS. 
          AND I, YOU KNOW, I'M THINKING OF THIS AS ALSO A PILOT. 
          I KNOW WE DON'T WANT TO, YOU KNOW, SETTING, LIKE YOU DON'T WANT TO SET THE PRECEDENT FOR THE PILOT. 
          UM, BUT CERTAINLY IT'S SOME THAT THIS IS A ONE YEAR AND IT'S GONNA, YOU KNOW, GO BACK AND REVIEW. 
          I ANALYZE, UH, AND THERE COULD BE HALF THESE POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS THAT SETS THE, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT OUR PRIVATE UTILITY ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAMS, AS FAR AS SOME POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS TO COUNCIL, THAT WOULD BE THE PRE-WORK FOR A LONGER TERM PROGRAM. 
          UM, SO YEAH, I THINK, YES, YOU CAN CERTAINLY READDRESS THIS BACK IN JANUARY. 
          I MEAN, THAT, THAT ALLOWS TIME FOR US TO SUBMIT YOUR WORK, UM, OVER NATASHA, THE SUBMIT THE RESOLUTION FOR THE, THE COMMISSION RESOLUTION FOR THE COUNCIL MEETING. 
          I HAD ONE QUICK FOLLOW-UP I HEARD YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT A PUBLIC HEARING ON DECEMBER 9TH, THOUGH. 
          OH, THAT'S THE COUNCIL ITEM TO SET THE PUBLIC HEARING. 
          SO ON DECEMBER 9TH, WE HAVE TO COUNSEL HAS TO SET A PUBLIC HEARING, WHICH WILL BE, THAT WILL BE DONE ON DECEMBER THE NINTH, NOT DEPENDENT ON OUR STAFF. 
          SO I, I APPRECIATE THIS IS JUST A PILOT, BUT I DO THINK THAT GETTING STARTED ON THE WRONG FOOT IS, UH, IS, UH, YOU KNOW, INTERESTING WAS COUNTER PRODUCTIVE. 
          AND THE REASON I ASK ABOUT THE AUSTIN CLIMATE EQUITY PLAN IS BECAUSE IT, IT DOES, YOU KNOW, CLEARLY PUT ELECTRIFICATION AS SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO BE MOVING TOWARDS AND, YOU KNOW, INCENTIVE AND THE INSTALLATION OF NATURAL GAS APPLIANCES IN NEW CONSTRUCTION IS IN DIRECT CONTRADICTION TO THAT. 
          IT'S ACTUALLY CREATING MORE LOCK-IN FOR FOSSIL FUEL USE. 
          SO I THINK AT THE VERY LEAST WE SHOULD DIRECT DEMAND AGAINST THOSE EQUIPMENT REBATES AND INCENTIVES, WRITING THOR FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION. 
          AND I'M FINE WITH THE, YOU KNOW, ALL THE LOW FLOW AERATORS, ALL THAT. 
          IT DOESN'T HAVE THAT SAME SORT OF EFFECT OF TECHNOLOGY LOCK-IN, BUT THE APPLIANCES TIE, IT JUST ADDS A FOLLOW UP FROM OUR PREVIOUS CONVERSATION. 
          I ALSO FEEL LIKE THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO, UM, TO PROPOSE EMISSIONS REDUCTIONS 
          [03:05:01]
TARGETS ASSOCIATED WITH NOT JUST COST EFFECTIVENESS, BUT ALSO LOOKING AT EMISSIONS, UH, ASSOCIATED WITH EACH OF THE MEASURES, UH, CONSIDERED IN THE PROGRAM. 
          UM, AND WHICH I THINK IS A KIND OF, UH, A PART OF OUR DISCUSSION PREVIOUSLY AND WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT INCLUDED, UH, HERE IN THE PILOT AS WELL. 
          AND IN FACT, I THINK A PILOT, PROBABLY A GOOD PLACE TO LOOK AT IMPLEMENTING SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES. 
          SO ALONG THE LINES OF THE TIE WITH THE CLIMATE EQUITY PLAN, I THINK IT, I WOULD DEFINITELY SUPPORT US LOOKING AT HOW MAKING SURE THAT WE UNDERSTAND THOSE CONNECTIONS, UM, ASSOCIATED WITH, UH, PILOT FOR CENTER POINT. 
          SO I GUESS RHONDELLA THEN THE QUESTION TO YOU IS IF, IF THERE WERE ASPECTS OF THIS TARIFF AS PRESENTED THAT, UH, WE WOULD LIKE TO RECOMMEND TWEAKING OR ADJUSTING, UH, PRIOR TO, YOU KNOW, RECOMMENDING SOMETHING TO COUNCIL, WHAT, WHAT IS THE AVENUE TO DO THAT? IS THAT SOMETHING WE DISCUSS IN THE MEANTIME BETWEEN JANUARY OR I GUESS I WOULD DISCUSS IN THE MEANTIME, AND IN JANUARY THAT YOU ADOPT THOSE, THOSE TWEAKS RECOMMENDATIONS AND FORWARD ON TO COUNCIL, UM, YOU KNOW, THESE ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAMS ARE FOR THE, YOU KNOW, IT'S FOR THE, FOR THE SERVICES THAT ARE PROVIDED BY THE UTILITY. 
          SO THAT'S, THIS IS OUR FRANCHISE REQUIREMENT, UM, THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY CONSERVATION PROGRAM. 
          AND AS FAR AS, YES, THE, I THINK CENTER POINT IS FAMILIAR WITH THE EQUITY PLAN OR WAS AT LEAST SOMEWHAT INVOLVED IN WORKING WITH THE OTHER NATURAL GAS UTILITIES THAT WERE PROBABLY MORE ENGAGED. 
          UM, BUT IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THIS COMMISSION WISHES TO RECOMMEND, I MEAN, THAT'S, UM, CERTAINLY WITHIN YOUR PURVIEW. 
          SO MY SUGGESTION, YOU HAVE, I'M JUST WONDERING ABOUT THE TIMING, LIKE TECHNICALLY IT'S BEFORE COUNCIL DECISION, BUT IN TERMS OF THE, MAYBE MAKING AN ADJUSTMENT TO THIS PROGRAM, DOES THAT, IS THAT REALISTIC IN A NINE DAY TURNAROUND? I DO THINK THAT THAT'S A VERY AMBITIOUS THE NINE DAYS FOR, FOR THE COMPANY TO MAKE IT CAUSE THEY FILED THE TARIFF THEY FILED. 
          I THINK IT'D BE A MATTER OF PROBABLY WANTING, YOU KNOW, MAYBE, UH, TRY TO HAVE MORE TIME AS NEEDED, BUT NINE DAYS IS A LITTLE UNREALISTIC. 
          SO IN THAT CASE, I'M WONDERING IF FOLKS WOULD FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH SOME GENERAL RECOMMENDATIONS NOW THAT WE CAN MAYBE FOLLOW UP WITH SOMETHING THAT'S BROADER, NOT JUST FOR CENTER POINT, BUT THIS IS MOVING FORWARD, YOU KNOW, MAKING, MAKING SOME STATEMENTS NOW THAT THEY COULD WORK OFF FOR A POSSIBLE ADJUSTMENT. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          I'M JUST, I'M, I'M A LITTLE NERVOUS TO DO THAT ON THE FLY HERE COLLECTIVELY, BUT WE REALLY DON'T HAVE ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY TO DO IT. 
          DO IT LIKE, JUST IN TERMS OF DRAFTING THE LANGUAGE. 
          WELL, I GUESS RANDELL. 
          SO WHAT HAPPENS IF WE COME BACK IN JANUARY, WE HAVE SOME TWEAKS WE WOULD LIKE TO BE MADE, UH, AND THOSE ARE RECOMMENDED. 
          UH, I MEAN, IS THERE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THOSE TO GET IMPLEMENTED AND THEN RE ADDRESSED AT A SUBSEQUENT COUNCIL MEETING? WELL, HOW I, HOW I SEE THIS WOULD PLAY OUT WOULD BE THAT, UM, THERE'LL BE THE COUNCIL, THE PUBLIC HEARING THERE'LL BE THE COMMISSION RECOMMENDATION VIA RESOLUTION OR WHATEVER. 
          AND, UM, CENTER POINT WILL BE IN ATTENDANCE, UM, AT THE COUNCIL MEETING, UM, FOR GETTING FEEDBACK AND COMMENTS. 
          UM, I WOULD THINK THAT THE COUNCIL WITH THEY WOULD ACCEPT THE RECOMMENDS, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY ACCEPT THE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE TWEAKS. 
          THEN, UM, THERE WOULD BE THE DIALOGUE BETWEEN THE COMPANY COUNCIL AND THE TERRIBLE WOULD BE ADOPTED EITHER AS PROPOSED OR WHAT THESE CHANGES. 
          BUT I MEAN, THE COMPANY DOES HAVE TO, THERE HAS TO BE SOME, YOU KNOW, THERE HAS TO DEFINITELY BE SOME DISCUSSION AND, UH, THAT'S HOW I WOULD SEE IT BE PLAYING OUT. 
          I MEAN, WE WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO WORK THOSE THINGS OUT BEFORE GOING TO CITY COUNCIL, BUT I MEAN, THAT DOESN'T ALWAYS HAPPEN. 
          AND THEN GIVEN THE TIMELINESS, UM, AND IF THERE IS NO, ACTUALLY, YEAH, THERE'S NO ACTION TAKEN. 
          IT DOES GO, IT DOES AUTOMATICALLY GO INTO EFFECT AS PROPOSED IF THERE'S NO ACTION TAKEN BY THE COUNCIL, BUT THEY'RE GOING TO, WE HAVE TO, UH, BUT THERE, THEIR 
          [03:10:01]
ACTIONS ARE NOT LIMITED TO JUST APPROVING OR DISAPPROVING. 
          THEY COULD PUT POTENTIALLY TWEAK THE, THE PROGRAM AS IT WAS PRESENTED. 
          UH, YEAH, THEY COULD ACTUALLY DID NOT. 
          I MEAN LIKE, LIKE VOTE, NO, LIKE, NO, WE DIDN'T HIDE THIS, THIS, THIS, THIS TEAR UP. 
          I MEAN, IT'S LIKE WE OPPOSE IT AND THAT MEANS THAT COULD BE DONE TO RIGHT. 
          BUT COULD THEY APPROVE IT WITH CHANGES CHANGES? YES. 
          AND THEN THOSE CHANGES WOULD BE TO BE IMPLEMENTED BY CENTER POINT. 
          YES. 
          YES. 
          AND IF SOME END OF THE COMPANY, REGARDLESS THEY WOULD, IF THEY WANTED, YOU KNOW, TO APPEAL THE DECISION OF THE CITY THAT WOULD BE DONE TO THE RAILROAD COMMISSION, THE STATE RAILROAD COMMISSION, RIGHT? ONE QUESTION, SIR, UM, ON THE RATES, UM, THE 59 CENTS ON $8, UM, DO WE HAVE ANY RATE ANALYSIS TO SHOW HOW THAT CAME UP WITH THE 59 CENTS AND $8 I'M UNCOMFORTABLE, THE POOLING, ANYTHING WE'LL MAKE AN, A RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL, NOT KNOWING WHERE THE NUMBERS COME FROM? UM, NOT IN THE, IN THE TARIFF, WE JUST HAVE THE BUDGET SO WE CAN CERTAINLY FOLLOW UP. 
          I MEAN, THAT WAS SOMETHING WE WOULD FOLLOW UP WITH THEM. 
          AND HOW DID THEY COME UP WITH THIS RATE? I MEAN, I KNOW THAT THEY WOULD SPREAD IT OVER THE NUMBER OF CUSTOMERS AND THEN THE, THE BUDGET, THE 20,000 OVER THE 2000 OR WHATEVER THE CUSTOMERS, AND THEN OVER THE MONTHLY, UM, OVER THE 11 MONTH PERIOD, THAT'S TYPICALLY HOW IT'S CALCULATED. 
          SO I BELIEVE BASED ON THESE DISCUSSIONS THAT IT FEELS TO ME THAT THEY'RE KIND OF TWO AREAS AND THEY MAY BE RATHER LARGE AREAS, BUT THE TWO AREAS FOR POTENTIAL TWEAKS BASED ON THIS PROGRAM, PILOT PROGRAM IS PRESENTED IN THIS DISCUSSION ARE REALLY RELATED TO THE COST EFFECTIVENESS OR COST BENEFIT RATIO OF THE SPECIFIC MEASURES INCLUDED IN THE PROGRAM BASED ON OUR PREVIOUS DISCUSSION. 
          AND, UM, I BELIEVE THE, THE CONCEPT OR THE IDEA RELATED OF HOW THE PROGRAM TIES TO AND CONTRIBUTES TO, IN SOME WAYS THE CALIBER TO THE CLUB, THE AUSTIN'S CLIMATE EQUITY PLAN. 
          UM, SO I THINK, I BELIEVE THAT THOSE ARE THE TWO KIND OF KEY AREAS UNDER WHICH WE MAY MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS, UM, OR RECOMMENDATIONS COULD COME. 
          UM, WE DID NOT FORM AN OFFICIAL WORKING GROUP OR, YOU KNOW, SUB COMMITTEE, THIS BODY AND THE PREVIOUS DISCUSSION TO TRY TO ADDRESS THOSE TOPICS. 
          BUT I THINK THEY ARE THE RELATED FOR, FOR BOTH CENTER POINT IN TEXAS GAS SERVICE, BUT CURIOUS IF THAT'S THE RIGHT APPROACH, UM, AND YOU KNOW, KIND OF CONSISTENT WITH THE, UM, I GUESS THE, THE SPIRIT OR THE TONE OF THIS COMMISSION, YOU KNOW, SORT OF A MULTI-STAKEHOLDER PROCESS WHEREBY WE'RE WORKING WITH THE CITY AND WITH THE COMPANY ON HOW MIGHT THAT EFFECTIVELY BE IMPLEMENTED. 
          DOES IT FEEL LIKE A PROCESS THAT MAKES SENSE? UM, I'M HESITANT TO RECOMMEND A WORKING GROUP, THE SLATE IN FIVE MINUTES TO 10, BUT IT IS THAT, UH, A SOLUTION TO, TO TRY TO ADDRESS THIS, OR SO THAT'S CERTAINLY A SOLUTION. 
          UH, BUT YOU KNOW, COMING BACK AT, AT OUR JANUARY MEETING WITH A LIST OF, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN EVEN VOTE ON INDIVIDUALLY, UH, ON THOSE, ON THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS, YOU KNOW, SUGGESTED RECOMMENDATIONS AND THAT CAN BE DONE THROUGH A FORMAL WORKING GROUP, OR EVEN JUST AN AD HOC AD HOC. 
          EXACTLY. 
          OKAY. 
          THAT MAYBE LESS FORMAL WAS, IS IDEAL IN THIS CASE. 
          UM, BUT, BUT IT DOES FEEL LIKE THERE IS SOME ADDITIONAL DISCUSSION THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL, INCLUDING DISCUSSION WITH SEPARATE POINT ON, ON KIND OF MAKING SURE WE UNDERSTAND SOME OF THE INS AND OUTS. 
          YEAH. 
          SO, I MEAN, MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE THAT WE, UH, ALSO KIND OF MAKES ME NERVOUS DRAFTING RECOMMENDATIONS ON THE FLY. 
          I THINK WE SHOULD TAKE US INTO MORE CONSIDERATION, UM, CENTER POINTS. 
          UH, IF YOU GUYS COULD PROVIDE SOME COST DATA OR SOME ANALYSIS ON YOUR, UH, THE, THE, THE COST BENEFIT, UH, YOU KNOW, WHERE, WHERE THAT, WHERE SOME OF THOSE NUMBERS CAME FROM AND WOULD BE WILLING TO ENGAGE IN A DISCUSSION WITH, UH, YOU KNOW, MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION. 
          AND THEN WE COME BACK IN JANUARY WITH, UH, YOU KNOW, INDIVIDUALS HAVE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE CAN ADDRESS AT THAT POINT. 
          I THINK THAT MAKES SENSE. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          UH, 
          [03:15:01]
ANY COMMENTS ON THAT? HOW DO WE GET CONTACT WITH, I GUESS WE SHOULD WITH SHEA? UH, I DON'T ABSOLUTELY. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          UH, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THAT TOPIC? SO I, IT SOUNDS LIKE WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE TAKING ACTION TONIGHT ON THAT TOPIC, BUT WE WILL BRING IT BACK AT OUR MEETING IN JANUARY, UH, TO ADDRESS FURTHER. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          UH, JAY, AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. 
          THANKS FOR STAYING ON SO LATE. 
          WE REALLY APPRECIATE IT. 
          I REALLY APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY. 
          THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND, UM, YOU KNOW, ENJOYED, UM, SHARING EVERYTHING WITH YOU. 
          LOOK FORWARD TO TALKING WITH YOU SOON. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          YOU AS WELL. 
          THANK YOU. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          UH, MOVING ON AGENDA 
          [9. Discussion and possible action regarding the 2022 Resource Management Commission
Meeting Schedule.]
ITEM NINE, DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING THE, UH, 2022, UH, MEETINGS OF THE RMC. 
          UH, THOSE MEETINGS WERE DISTRIBUTED. 
          WE JUST, AS A NOTE MEET ON THE THIRD TUESDAY. 
          SO NEXT YEAR, ALL OF THOSE MEETINGS ARE ON THE THIRD TUESDAY, EXCEPT FOR MARCH, WHICH HAS MOVED TO THE SPRING BREAK. 
          UM, ALSO WORTH NOTING AFTER FEBRUARY 28TH. 
          UH, THERE WILL BE A VIRTUAL OPTION AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE EXCEPT THE CHAIR. 
          SO WE WON'T HAVE TO HAVE A, UH, SIX MEMBER FORUM IN PERSON. 
          UH, SO TWO MORE MEETINGS UNTIL THAT, UH, UH, IT GOES INTO EFFECT. 
          UM, I BELIEVE IT WAS JUST, IT WAS AN ORDINANCE THAT THERE'S A, MAYBE A TIME PERIOD OR SOMETHING. 
          YEAH. 
          SO, UM, AT THIS TIME I WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO APPROVE OUR 20, 22 MEETING SCHEDULE. 
          WOULD ANYONE LIKE TO MAKE THAT MOTION SO MOVED, UH, ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE, OR RAISE YOUR HANDS. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          UH, THAT MOTION PASSES UNANIMOUSLY ITEM 10, 
          [10. Discuss potential future agenda items.]
DISCUSS POTENTIAL FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS. UH, SO AS I MENTIONED, WE DON'T HAVE A DECEMBER MEETING, UH, OR JANUARY MEETINGS, OUR NEXT ONE, UH, TWO ITEMS ON THERE ALREADY, UH, THE ED READY, UH, TOPIC AS WELL AS THE DISTRIBUTED COMMUNITY SOLAR TOPIC, AND, UH, ACTUALLY THREE ITEMS. THE ONE WE JUST DISCUSSED, THE CENTER POINT, UH, TARIFF, UM, ANY DISCUSSION AROUND FUTURE TOPICS. 
          UM, I, AGAIN, I WOULD ASK THAT FOR, UH, THAT YOU DO JUST PUT A FORMAL SUBMISSION IN WRITING, UH, TO GET THEM ON THE AGENDA. 
          AND PLEASE LET ME KNOW, UH, AHEAD OF TIME, JUST ONE QUICK COMMENT. 
          I ONLY WANTED TO SAY THANK YOU FOR THE, UM, DISTRIBUTED, UH, RESILIENT, THE, THE TESLA PRESENTATION AND REALLY KIND OF BRINGING FORWARD SOME CUTTING EDGE TECHNOLOGIES TO IN FRONT OF THE COMMISSION. 
          I THINK THAT'S HELPFUL FOR US TO KEEP OUR EYE ON WHAT'S GOING ON OUT THERE. 
          SO THANK YOU TO THE COMMISSION COMMISSIONERS WHO SPONSORED THAT ITEM. 
          YEAH. 
          YOU KNOW, AND FOLLOWING ON THAT, I WOULD ACTUALLY LIKE AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE, MAYBE NOT IN JANUARY, BUT AT SOME POINT TO TAKE, TO, TO BRING IN THE AUSTIN ENERGY FOLKS THAT, THAT, UH, KIND OF ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THOSE PROGRAMS AND TO HEAR HOW THEY'RE THINKING ABOUT IT AND, UH, YOU KNOW, HOW WE CAN WORK WITH THEM TO, UH, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY TO, TO EXPAND THE CAPABILITIES THAT WE HAVE HERE. 
          I AGREED I WOULD, I WOULD SUPPORT THAT DISCUSSION. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          UH, HEARING NOTHING FURTHER ON THAT TOPIC. 
          I BELIEVE THAT IS IT. 
          SO, UH, LET'S GO AHEAD AND ADJOURN THE MEETING. 
          UH, EVERYONE, I APPRECIATE YOU STAYING SO LATE.
* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.