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[00:00:04]

AND WELCOME TO

[CALL TO ORDER]

THE FEBRUARY 16TH, 2022 MEETING OF THE CITY OF AUSTIN DOWNTOWN COMMISSION.

UH, IT IS NOW 5:37 PM.

AND I'LL CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER.

UH, THE FIRST ITEM IS FOR A ROLL TO BE TAKEN.

DO YOU WANT PREFER THAT I DO THAT OR DID SOMEBODY OVER THERE WANT TO DO IT? I HAPPENED TO DO IT.

YEP.

OKAY.

ROCK PAPER, SCISSOR.

OKAY.

AND FOR THOSE WHO ARE, UM, VIRTUAL AND NON-VIRTUAL, IF YOU COULD SAY PRESENT, PLEASE, AND NOT JUST RAISE THE HAND.

I APPRECIATE IT.

CHAIR HARRIS PRESENT.

SORRY.

UH, CHRISTOPHER LEHMAN CAVE.

AHA.

ASKING YOU SHOWS.

RECEIVED.

GOOD TO SEE YOUR ORB.

MEGAN.

MEISENBACH PRESENT.

THANK YOU.

I LIKE THAT FOLLOW MEGHAN'S LEAD.

CHRIS NAPPY.

CAN I HAPPY? OKAY.

JEN WEAVER, AS IN AHA.

THANK YOU.

JOSTLE.

LICK LICK TIG RESIDENT.

SORRY IF I BUTCHERED YOUR NAME.

JOEL, SHARE PRESENT.

THANK YOU, BEN.

HI, I'M SETH RESONANT.

HI.

I LOVE IT.

LOUD AND PROUD.

KIMBERLY KEATON.

DID SHE RESIGNED? YEAH.

YEAH.

SO THAT WE NEED TO MAKE THAT AS A, AS A CHANGE HAS BEEN A RECENT CHANGE.

DAVID GOMEZ, PRESIDENT KEW, NATALIE RAMIREZ.

CYNTHIA WEATHER BE PRESENT.

STEVE.

THANK YOU.

KIMBERLY TAYLOR.

OKAY.

MIKE LEE LEVINE IS HAVING THIS CONNECTION.

OKAY.

PRESTON RINEY LAURA TEMPLETON PRESENT CHRISTOPHER LEMO, CAITLIN ROBINSON PRESENT.

THANK YOU TO YOU BACK TO YOUR CHAIR.

THANK YOU.

HE VERY MUCH.

AND IN TERMS OF THE ARTS COMMISSION REPRESENTATIVE, WHAT'S THE STATUS ON THAT? I'LL HAVE TO GET BACK TO YOU ON THE STATUS OF THAT.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

UM, DO WE HAVE ANYBODY REGISTERED TO SPEAK TODAY FOR GENERAL COMMUNICATION SIGNED UP AND NO ONE'S SIGNED UP ON OKAY.

NO CITIZEN COMMUNICATIONS ARE THE NEXT

[1. Approval of Minutes of the January 19, 2022 Meeting Minutes]

ITEM APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES.

DOES ANY HAVE, HAS, EXCUSE ME, HAS EVERYBODY HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THE MINUTES? AND ARE THERE ANY CHANGES THAT NEED TO BE MADE HEARING NONE SEEING NONE ONLINE? UH, THE MINUTE STAND IS APPROVED STAND APPROVED.

UM, OUR

[2.a. Convention Center Expansion: Downtown Commission Working Group Recommendation]

ONLY ITEM OF BUSINESS TONIGHT, UH, BECAUSE WE HAD A NUMBER OF AGENDA ITEMS GET PULLED.

SO W WHAT WE THOUGHT WAS GOING TO BE A BUSY FEBRUARY EVENING IS GOING TO BE A BIT VERY BUSY MARCH EVENING.

UH, THE ITEM OF BUSINESS WE HAVE THIS EVENING IS, UM, REGARDING THE, UH, CONVENTION CENTER EXPANSION, UH, AND A REPORT FROM THE DOWNTOWN COMMISSION WORKING GROUP.

AND I BELIEVE COMMISSIONER TEMPLETON IS GOING TO INITIATE THE CONVERSATION ON BEHALF OF THE WORKING GROUP.

AND WE HAVE PROFESSOR HAYWOOD SANDERS, UH, AVAILABLE REMOTELY WHO IS GOING TO MAKE A PRESENTATION IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN.

WHY DON'T YOU? YEAH, LET'S GO AHEAD AND START WITH HIM.

[00:05:01]

HELLO? HAYWOOD.

CAN YOU HEAR ME THE CITY HALL AB YEAH, I CAN HEAR YOU CITY HALL LADY.

UNFORTUNATELY, MY, I TRUST YOU CAN HEAR ME.

OKAY.

I CAN HEAR YOU.

UM, WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE IN PRESENTER MODE SO YOU CAN SHOW YOUR PRESENT, UH, PRESENTATION? I WOULD THINK THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF YOU'D ALLOW ME TO SHARE A SCREEN.

ABSOLUTELY.

UM, I'M ALSO HAVING SOME ISSUES IN STARTING IN STARTING CAMERA.

OKAY.

OH, OKAY.

UM, ARE YOU JOINING FROM THE BROWSER OR THE APP? I THINK I'M JOINING WELL, LET'S SEE.

I THINK I'M JOINING FROM THE, FROM THE BROWSER BECAUSE IT WANTED TO SET UP THE BROWSER, BUT I'VE GOT AN APP WINDOW OPEN THAT SHOWS WEBEX EVENTS.

I WOULD RECOMMEND THE APP.

SO IT WANTS TO TAKE YOU TO THE BROWSER, BUT THAT DOESN'T, UM, SPECIFICALLY REALLY WELL FOR PEOPLE.

IF YOU'LL JUST NAVIGATE OVER TOWARDS THE APP, YOU'LL PROBABLY HAVE, UM, MORE OF A SUCCESS RATE WITH.

OKAY.

WELL, WOULD YOU SUGGEST HOW I DO THAT? CAUSE MY NORMAL WEBEX APP IS NOT SHOWING UP.

OKAY.

UM, YOU, YOU MIGHT HAVE TO ASK THE MEANING REAL QUICK AND GO OUT AND COME BACK IN.

WELL THEN LET ME EXIT AND I'LL SEE WHAT I CAN DO.

CAN I USE THE SAME LINK THAT MONA SANCHEZ SENT ME? ABSOLUTELY.

OKAY.

LET ME GO.

OKAY.

WHILE WE'RE WAITING FOR, UH, PROFESSOR SANDERS TO COME BACK, IS THERE, DO YOU WANT TO MAKE ANY BRIEF COMMENTS? OKAY, SURE.

WE HAD A, WE HAD A PRODUCTIVE MEETING WITH PROFESSOR SANDERS, UH, ABOUT TWO, TWO WEEKS AGO, JOE, I THINK, UH, HE HAS A LOT OF DATA, A LOT OF INFORMATION, AND HOPEFULLY NEXT MONTH WE'LL BE ABLE TO PRESENT A MOTION WE'LL RECONVENE AND PRESENT A MOTION.

IS THAT YEP.

SOUND GOOD? THAT'S PERFECT.

UM, COMMISSIONER LAYMAN, DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION? I DID.

I HAD TROUBLE GETTING A VIDEO GOING LAST MEETING, BUT I WAS HERE FOR THE WHOLE MEETING AND EVENTUALLY GOT THE VIDEO GOING.

AND I MENTIONED IT BECAUSE THE MINUTE SHOW ME IS ABSENT.

SO WE MAY GET TO SEE YOU YET AGAIN, LATE IN THE MEETING.

WE LOOK FORWARD TO IT.

COMMISSIONER, SIR, WHILE WE'RE WAITING, ANYTHING THAT YOU MIGHT WANT TO ADD PRIOR TO HIS PRESENTATION? HELLO? ARE YOU THERE? HEY, WHAT MR. SANDERS, DO YOU NEED TO ADJUST THE MINUTES? CAUSE HE WAS HERE LAST WEEK.

LAST MONTH, CHRIS LAMB, LAYMAN.

DID HE SAY THAT HE WOULD, CAN YOU HEAR US, CHRISTINE WE'LL NEED TO MAKE A CHANGE TO THE MINUTES.

COMMISSIONER LEHMAN WAS THE VIDEO IS NOT WORKING AND I CAN SHARE A SCREEN WITH YOU, WHICH MAKES IT KIND OF DIFFICULT TO DO A PRESENTATION.

ONE SECOND.

I JUST PUT PRESENT.

NOW I CAN.

THAT'S FINE.

LET'S SEE HOW THIS WORKS.

LET ME TRY IT.

LET ME TRY THE POWERPOINT VERSION AND YOU TELL ME IF YOU CAN SEE THAT WE CAN SEE IT.

OKAY, WONDERFUL.

SO IF THAT'S THE CASE, LET'S SEE IF THIS WORKS.

OKAY.

WE'LL GO INTO PRESENTATION MODE.

IS THAT OKAY? YES, THAT PERFECT.

OKAY.

UH, SO WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO, UH, COMMISSION MEMBERS AND CHAIR, UH, IS GIVE YOU SOME BACKGROUND MATERIAL, UH, IN TWO PARTS.

UH, THE FIRST PORTION OF THIS, UH, DEALS WITH THE STATE OF THE CONVENTION INDUSTRY PRE COVID, ESSENTIALLY THE PREDICATE TO WHERE WE ARE NOW.

UH, THE SECOND PORTION WILL DEAL SPECIFICALLY WITH AUSTIN.

UH, SO, UH, CHAIR, I WILL LEAVE IT TO YOU TO DECIDE HOW YOU'D PREFER TO HANDLE QUESTIONS.

I THINK WHAT PROFESSOR SANDERS, I THINK WHAT WE'D LIKE TO DO IS GET THROUGH YOUR PRESENTATION AND THEN HAVE QUESTIONS AT THE END.

OKAY.

UH, THAT'S FINE.

UH, AND WEBEX IS BEING CRANKY.

I'M SORRY TO SAY SO LET'S SEE IF WE CAN'T GO AHEAD.

ALL RIGHT.

AND NOW I CAN'T SEE MY SCREEN.

LET ME GET THIS OUT OF THE WAY.

UM, SO LET ME START IN THE BEGINNING.

UH,

[00:10:01]

THERE, THERE IS A MODEST VARIETY OF DATA, UH, ON THE, THE OUTER OVERVIEW OF THE CONVENTION INDUSTRY IN TERMS OF PERFORMANCE, BECAUSE OF LIMITATIONS WITH A WIDE VARIETY OF SOURCES.

UH, I CHOSE SOME TIME AGO TO TRACK IT MYSELF, LOOKING AT THE FOUR MAJOR CONVENTION VENUES IN THE COUNTRY, UH, THAT WOULD BE CHICAGO'S MCCORMICK PLACE, THE ORANGE COUNTY CONVENTION CENTER IN ORLANDO, THE PUBLICLY OWNED LAS VEGAS CONVENTION CENTER AND THE GEORGIA WORLD CONGRESS CENTER IN ATLANTA.

UH, AND TO LOOK AT THEIR ATTENDANCE OVER TIME, THIS PARTICULAR GRAPHIC SHOWS THEIR ATTENDANCE AT CONVENTIONS AND TRADE SHOWS.

JUST TO BE CLEAR FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DON'T KNOW SOME OF THE PECULIAR SPECIFICS OF THE INDUSTRY OR CENTER PERFORMANCE, UH, CONVENTION CENTERS LIKE AUSTIN'S AND ACCOMMODATE A WIDE VARIETY OF EVENTS, SMALL MEETINGS, BANQUETS, SOCIAL EVENTS, AS WELL AS CONVENTIONS AND SO-CALLED PUBLIC OR CONSUMER SHOWS LIKE THE AUTO SHOW WHERE THE HOME SHOW, UH, THIS PARTICULAR GRAPHIC AND MY ANALYSIS WILL FOCUS ON ATTENDANCE AT CONVENTIONS AND TRADE SHOWS AS THOSE ARE THE EVENTS THAT ATTRACT OUT OF TOWN ATTENDEES, WHICH IN TURN GENERATE ECONOMIC IMPACT.

SO A COUPLE OF NOTES ON THIS GRAPHIC SUMMARIZING THE AGGREGATE ATTENDANCE OF THE FOUR MAJOR CENTERS.

YOU CAN OBVIOUSLY SEE THE IMPACT OF THE 2008 RECESSION.

UH, BY 2017.

ATTENDANCE HAD BARELY GOTTEN BACK TO THE LEVEL.

IT WAS PRE 2008 AND IT DECLINED THEN IN BOTH 2018 AND 2019.

UH, THAT'S AN IMPORTANT THING TO NOTE BECAUSE THIS INDUSTRY WAS BY THIS METRIC, NOT A GROWING, EXPANDING ONE, EVEN PRIOR TO THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC.

UH, SOME FOLKS HAVE ASKED WHY, AND THE ANSWER TO THAT CAN BE FOUND TO SOME DEGREE IN THE PERFORMANCE OF A VARIETY OF INDIVIDUAL MEETING OF ANTS, WHICH I'D LIKE TO SHARE.

UH, THIS CHART, FOR EXAMPLE, SHOWS THE ATTENDANCE AT THE ANNUAL, UH, PRINCIPLE CONVENTION OF THE AMERICAN HEART ASSOCIATION, THEIR SCIENTIFIC SESSIONS.

UH, AND I THINK THE PATTERN HERE IS PRETTY EVIDENT.

UM, IN THIS CASE, THE ATTENDANCE AT THE ACT, THE DESIGN AUTOMATION CONFERENCE AND EVENT, WHICH AUSTIN HOSTED FOR TWO YEARS AND WHICH SUBSEQUENTLY DID NOT RETURN, UH, DAK IS THE PROFESSIONAL EVENT FOR CHIP FABRICATION SYSTEMS DESIGNERS.

UH, AND THIS IS THE ATTENDANCE, UH, HISTORY IN RECENT YEARS.

YOU'LL NOTE IN EVERY CASE WE'RE STOPPING AT 2019, SO IS NOT TO BE MISLED BY THE PANDEMIC IMPACT FOR THE BIOTECHNOLOGY INDUSTRY ORGANIZATION, BIO, UH, THE PATTERN HERE, ALTHOUGH IT VARIES TO SOME DEGREE ACROSS A VARIETY OF INDIVIDUAL EVENTS AND INDUSTRY SEGMENTS IS THAT ATTENDANCE WAS GENERALLY NOT GROWING PRIOR TO THE PANDEMIC.

UH, AT THE SAME TIME, THE SUPPLY OF EXHIBIT HALL SPACE AT CONVENTION CENTERS IN NORTH AMERICA HAD BEEN GROWING AND INDEED CONTINUES TO GROW.

UH, THE RESULT WAS A PHENOMENON, UH, THAT A NUMBER OF DESTINATION MARKETING ORGANIZATIONS, CVBS COMPARABLE TO VISIT AUSTIN, UH, HAVE DESCRIBED AS A BUYER'S MARKET, UH, AND FACED WITH THAT BUYER'S MARKET, UH, CENTERS AND MARKETING ORGANIZATIONS ROUTINELY OFFERED A VARIETY OF DISCOUNTS, INCENTIVES, AND INDEED FREE RENT DEALS.

UH, THOSE INCENTIVES AND FREE RENT DEALS WERE THE NORM FOR MAJOR COMPETITIVE CENTERS COMPETING FOR ROTATING EVENTS.

UH, I CAN DOCUMENT THEIR THEY'RE USED IN VENUES AS LARGE AND DIFFERENT AS MCCORMICK PLACE IN CHICAGO.

UH, THE ORANGE COUNTY CENTER, UH, LOS ANGELES, SAN DIEGO, UH, IT'S PRETTY MUCH EVERYWHERE.

UH, AND FOR EXAMPLE, UH, THIS IS THE LAST PAGE

[00:15:01]

OF A CONTRACT SIGNED BY THE MCDONALD'S CORPORATION, UH, PRIOR TO THEIR ANTICIPATED, BUT ULTIMATELY NOT HELD EVENT IN 2020, UH, THEIR CONTRACT AND LEASE AGREEMENT WITH THE ORANGE COUNTY CENTER IN ORLANDO.

UH, YOU WILL NOTE, UH, THE BASIC SUBTOTAL RENT IN EXCESS OF 1.6 MILLION AND THE BOTTOM LINE NET TOTAL RENT ADDS ZERO, UH, THIS FROM THE ANNUAL REPORT OF THE PHOENIX CVB VISIT PHOENIX, PHOENIX WITH BOTH FREE CONVENTION CENTER RENTAL AND FREE WIFI.

UH, AND IN ONE PARTICULAR ORGANIZATION THAT KIND OF EXEMPLIFIES THIS PATTERN, UH, O H B M THE ORGANIZATION FOR HUMAN BRAIN MAPPING, UH, FOR ITS PLAN 2020 CONVENTION.

UH, THE RESPONSE TO THE PROPOSAL FROM THE PHILADELPHIA CONVENTION AND VISITOR BUREAU, UH, OFFERING THEM, UH, A SIGNIFICANT DISCOUNT, UH, FROM THE ROUGHLY $130,000 BASE RENT DOWN TO 87,000, UH, O H BM ALSO RECEIVE PROPOSALS FOR THEIR 2020 EVENT FROM OTHER VENUES, UH, INCLUDING, I MIGHT NOTE, UH, AUSTIN, UH, WHICH ROUTINELY OFFERS A DISCOUNT BASED ON A ROOM NIGHT CREDIT, UM, RELATIVE TO THE NUMBER OF HOTEL ROOM NIGHTS, UH, GENERATED ESTIMATED TO BE GENERATED BY AN ANNUAL EVENT, ULTIMATELY, HOWEVER, UH, O H B M CHOSE A DIFFERENT VENUE.

OH, I MIGHT NOTE IN PASSING NEW ORLEANS ALSO PROPOSED WITH A DISCOUNTED RENT.

UH, THIS IS THE RESPONSE FROM, UH, TO A PRISMA MEMORIAL, UH, FOR THE USING, UH, PALLADIO KHAN GRAY IN MONTREAL.

UH, YOU WILL NOTE THAT THE BALANCE FOR YOU TO PAY HERE ARE $0 PLEASANTLY THE SAME IN BOTH CANADIAN AND US.

UH, SO WITH THAT, I'LL BE GLAD TO, UH, I'LL BE, BE GLAD TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS, IF THAT'S CAN BE LENIENT AND OTHERWISE WE CAN MOVE ON TO THE NEXT LET'S GO AHEAD AND MOVE ON.

THAT'S FINE.

SO WHAT I'D NOW LIKE TO DO IS SPEAK TO A LITTLE BIT OF THE HISTORICAL AND BROADER CONTEXT OF AUSTIN'S CONVENTION CENTER.

UH, AND LET ME GO INTO THE APPROPRIATE MODE IF YOU ALL CAN SEE THAT.

YEAH.

YES.

THANK YOU.

GREAT.

SO WITH THAT, LET'S GO BACK A FEW YEARS, UH, TO THE POINT IN, UH, MID 1997, WHEN THE CITY WAS CONSIDERING AN EXPANSION OF THE AUSTIN CONVENTION CENTER AND COMMISSIONED A STUDY FROM C H JOHNSON CONSULTING, EXAMINING BOTH THE THEN CURRENT PERFORMANCE OF THE AUSTIN CONVENTION CENTER, UH, AND PROVIDING, UH, ANALYSIS OF THE FORECAST PERFORMANCE POST EXPANSION IN MUCH THE SAME WAY OTHER CONSULTANTS HAVE, UH, MORE RECENTLY, UH, EXAMINED THE ECONOMIC AND MARKET IMPLICATIONS OF A FURTHER EXPANSION AND PRESENTED FORECASTS OF THAT.

UH, SO HERE FROM CHARLIE JOHNSON'S 1997 REPORT, NOTING THAT THE CENTER THERE THEN WAS COMPARATIVELY SMALL AND RECOMMENDING AN IMMEDIATE EXPANSION, ROUGHLY DOUBLING THE CENTER SIZE TO CIRCA 250,000 SQUARE FEET, UH, NOTING THE EROSION OF AUSTIN'S COMPETITIVE POSITION AND ON THE BOTTOM OF THE SLIDE, UH, BASED LARGELY ON SO-CALLED LOSS BUSINESS REPORTS FROM THE AUSTIN CONVENTION AND VISITOR BUREAU, UH, OF ROOM NIGHTS THAT WERE LOST TO THE CENTER PEAK BECAUSE ALL THE INADEQUATE FACILITIES

[00:20:01]

UH, AND HERE A TABULATION OF THE REASON FOR THAT LOSS BUSINESS, NOTING A LACK OF AVAILABLE DATES AND INADEQUATE MEETING SPACE, AS WELL AS A LACK OF LARGE HOTELS AS THE PRINCIPAL REASONS AND CONCLUDING THAT THE CENTER IS TOO SMALL TO ACCOMMODATE POTENTIAL DEMANDS.

NATIONAL ROTATING EVENTS CANNOT RETURN BECAUSE THEY'RE NOW TOO LARGE AND STATE EVENTS THAT OUTGROWN THE FACILITY.

UH, I NOTE THIS TABLE FROM THE 97 JOHNSON REPORT INDICATING THAT THE CENTERS CONVENTION AND TRADE ATTENDANCE AT THAT JUNCTURE WAS 150,000.

AND THAT WITH AN EXPANSION, UH, TO ROUGHLY 250,000 SQUARE FEET OF EXHIBIT SPACE, UM, ATTENDANCE WOULD MORE THAN DOUBLE TO A TOTAL OF 329,000.

I'D ASK YOU TO KEEP THAT NUMBER IN MIND FOR THE NEXT FEW MINUTES.

OKAY.

AND IN ADDITION, JOHNSON OFFERED A FORECAST AND PROJECTION FOR THE GENERATION OF HOTEL ROOM LIGHTS.

LET ME NOTE PARANTHETICALLY THAT THAT'S A PARTICULARLY RELEVANT METRIC AND ASSESSING THE PERFORMANCE OF A CONVENTION CENTER, AND ONE THAT YOU ALL MIGHT HAVE ENCOUNTERED PREVIOUSLY, UH, CENTERS CAN ACCOMMODATE LOTS OF DIFFERENT EVENTS AND DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

UH, THE HOTEL ROOM NIGHT METRIC DIRECTLY ASSESSES THE ACTIVITY AND PRESENCE OF OVERNIGHT VISITORS, THE FOLKS WHO ARE BRINGING PRESUMABLY, UH, NEW SPENDING DOLLARS INTO THE COMMUNITY.

AND IN THIS CASE, AGAIN, MORE THAN DOUBLE IN CONCERT WITH THE ATTENDANCE GROWTH TO ABOUT 332,600, IF YOU WOULD KEEP THAT IN MIND AS WELL.

UH, AND THIS FROM THE CITY'S WEBSITE IN APRIL OF 2002, UM, AT ABOUT THE TIME WHEN THE EXPANDED CENTER OPENED, UH, NOTING AGAIN, THE FIGURES FROM JOHNSON AT THE BOTTOM OF THE SLIDE INDICATING THAT ROOM NIGHT GENERATION WOULD MORE THAN DOUBLE FROM ABOUT 150,000 TO 332,000 PLUS.

SO, UH, LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT SOME ASPECTS OF WHERE THE CENTER HAS BEEN PERFORMING A PRETTY PANDEMIC.

UH, IN THIS CASE, I'M RELYING ON SOME DATA PROVIDED BY THE ACC STAFF IN RESPONSE TO A REQUEST BY ACCOUNT, UH, BASED ON FISCAL YEAR 2018.

AND I'M GOING TO APOLOGIZE FOR THE SIZE OF THIS.

IT'S TOUGH TO GET ON ONE SLIDE.

I TRUST YOU ALL CAN SEE THIS.

LET ME LET, I DID ENCOURAGE YOU TO TAKE A LOOK AT THIS IN SOME DETAIL FOR A COUPLE OF, UH, COUPLE OF MOMENTS.

UH, AND I'D LIKE TO FOCUS YOU'LL YOU'LL NOTE THE NAME OF THE, THE NAME OF THE EVENT IS ON THE LEFT-HAND SIDE.

UH, THERE ARE THREE COLUMNS TO THE RIGHT, UH, THE COLUMN FOR THIS TO THE RIGHT IS THE NUMBER OF HOTEL ROOM NIGHTS GENERATED BY THE INDIVIDUAL EVENT.

UH, THE COLUMN TO THE LEFT OF THAT IS THE ACTUAL NUMBER OF ATTENDEES AND THE COLUMN FURTHER TO THE LEFT IN THE CASE OF, UH, FOR EXAMPLE, SPICEWORLD THE 3000 NUMBER, UH, IS THE PRE EVENT FORECAST CHAIR, IF IT'S ALL RIGHT.

MY, I POSE A QUESTION TO THE COMMISSION MEMBERS WHO ARE THERE VIRTUALLY AND IN PERSON, CERTAINLY.

UH, DO ANY OF YOU FOLKS NOTICE ANYTHING OF PARTICULAR INTEREST OR RELEVANCE HERE? ARE THERE ANY NUMBERS OR EVENTS THAT STAND OUT TO YOU SOUTH BY SOUTHWEST HAS THE MOST ATTENDEES THAT'S THE LARGEST? LET ME SEE THAT BEFORE.

YEAH.

[00:25:01]

I THINK THAT'S QUITE OBVIOUS THAT THAT SOUTH BY SOUTHWEST IS, IS FAR AND AWAY THE LARGEST SINGLE EVENT WITH AN ACTUAL ATTENDANCE IN EXCESS OF 200,000.

UH, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT IS INTERESTING OR, OR THAT, THAT YOU NOTE ABOUT SOUTH BY SOUTHWEST HERE? NOT THAT MANY HOTEL ROOMS, 53,000 AS COMPARED TO THE ATTENDANCE.

SO I WOULD THINK THAT MOST OF THE PEOPLE ATTENDING SOUTH BY SOUTHWEST, MANY OF THEM ARE LOCALS AND OUR FOREST.

IF I RECOGNIZE THAT THAT'S THE VOICE OF LAURA TEMPLETON, I THINK IT IS LAURA.

OKAY.

THANK YOU, LAURA.

YEAH.

I MEAN, THIS IS A PARTICULARLY NOTABLE THING, AND WE MIGHT TALK ABOUT THIS IN A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL.

UM, YOU WILL NOTE FOR SOME MEETINGS, UH, THE, UH, NUMBER OF HOTEL ROOM NIGHTS IS A MULTIPLE OF THE NUMBER OF ATTENDEES IN GENERAL.

THEN YOU HAVE LOTS OF, OUT OF TOWN ATTENDEES WHO WERE STAYING OVER MULTIPLE NIGHTS.

UH, BUT YOU WILL NOTE ALSO IN A, IN A NUMBER OF OTHER CASES, YOU WILL HAVE VERY LARGE NUMBERS OF ATTENDEES AND A VERY MODEST NUMBER OF HOTEL ROOM NIGHTS.

THAT'S CERTAINLY THE CASE FOR SOUTH BY, I THINK YOU'LL NOTE, THAT'S ALSO THE CASE FOR THE DREAM HACK EVENT IN THIS PARTICULAR YEAR.

UH, ANOTHER LARGE EVENT WITH 36,000 ATTENDEES THAT GENERATED ALL OF US.

HOW WAS IN 79 ROOM NIGHTS? UH, I WOULD CALL YOUR ATTENTION TO A COUPLE OF INDIVIDUAL EVENTS HERE.

AND THEN I SHOULD NOTE WHERE WE'RE MISSING A FEW, UH, THAT WERE ON A SEPARATE PAGE THAT I COULDN'T MANAGE TO GET IN HERE.

UH, BUT I WOULD CALL YOUR ATTENTION TO A COUPLE OF EVENTS HERE.

UH, ONE OF WHICH IS S W E FOURTH, DOWN FROM THE TOP, THE SOCIETY OF WOMEN ENGINEERS, UH, WHICH IN THIS CASE HAD A RELATIVELY LARGE ATTENDANCE IN EXCESS OF 14,000, UH, AND SLIGHTLY UNDER 8,000 ROOM NIGHTS, UH, GENERATED.

I THINK SOME OF YOU MIGHT ALSO KNOW THE NAMES OF SOME OF THESE EVENTS, ALTHOUGH IN SOME CASES THEY ARE NOT PARTICULARLY CLEAR.

UM, ONE OF WHICH A NUMBER OF THEM START WITH T THAT WOULD BE T AS IN TEXAS, THOSE ARE STATE EVENTS AS OPPOSED TO ROTATING NATIONAL OR REGIONAL EVENTS.

UH, AND I WOULD CALL YOUR ATTENDANCE IN PARTICULAR, YOUR ATTENTION, I'M SORRY, IN PARTICULAR TO TWO EVENTS, A SECOND FROM THE TOP IS THE SPICE WORLD, AUSTIN 2017 EVENT, UH, FOR THE USERS OF SPICEWORKS SOFTWARE AND THEN, UH, AS WELL, THE SOCIETY OF WOMEN ENGINEERS, SWE, UH, WHICH I THOUGHT I MIGHT MENTION, ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS? I HAVE ONE ABOUT THE, AND THIS IS CHAIR HARRIS.

I'VE GOT ONE QUESTION ABOUT THE DATA IN THE RIGHT-HAND COLUMN.

IS THAT ROOM NIGHTS? YES.

YES, SURE.

HARRIS.

THAT IS, THAT IS THE NUMBER OF ROOM NIGHTS.

OKAY.

OKAY.

WELL, IT'S THERE THERE'S ONE THAT HAS 80 PARTICIPANTS IN 671 ROOM NIGHTS.

UH, I, I NOTE THAT THAT'S THE RUN.

I TAKE IT.

THAT'S THE W LET ME SEE.

YEAH, THAT'S THE ZERO CON AUSTIN.

UM, AGAIN, I'M SIMPLY PROVIDING YOU HERE, UH, MATERIAL THAT THE ACC STAFF PROVIDED TO COUNCIL MEMBER ALTAR, AND I'D BE GLAD TO GIVE YOU THE, THE ORIGINAL DOCUMENT IN PDF FORM, IF YOU'D LIKE, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE ARE OTHER, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD NOTE THAT EVEN THE ACTUAL EVENT, UH, ATTENDANCE NUMBERS ARE ROUNDED, UH, IN A NUMBER OF CASES, BUT THIS IS, THIS IS WHAT THE CENTER PROVIDED.

AND THE CENTER PRESUMABLY USES IN REPORTING ON ITS PERFORMANCE.

JARED HARRIS.

THANK YOU.

AND I CAN'T SEE THE WHOLE THING, BUT ONE OF THEM IN THE MIDDLE HAS 53,681 ROOM NIGHTS AND LESS THAN 3000 ATTENDEES, IF I'M READING IT CORRECTLY, WHAT IS, YEAH.

YEAH.

IF YOU HAVE, IF THAT THE

[00:30:01]

53,681 ROOM NIGHT EVENT IS SOUTH BY SOUTHWEST THE 18, YES.

WITH A TOTAL OF 200,310 ATTENDEES.

IS THAT OKAY? THAT'S GREAT.

THANK YOU.

OKAY.

AND AGAIN, IF, IF YOU CHAIR HARRIS, IF YOU, OR ANY OF THE MEMBERS WOULD, WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE ORIGINAL STAFF MEMO, I'D BE GLAD TO DO THAT.

IT'S, IT'S NOT A PROBLEM AT ALL.

I THINK THAT WOULD BE FINE IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND, INCLUDING THAT WITH YOUR PRESENTATION.

NO, NOT AT ALL.

THANK YOU, SIR.

OH, I WONDER, UM, THAT THE ONE THAT WAS MENTIONED A SECOND AGO IS IN DECEMBER.

AND SO IS THERE A CORRELATION BETWEEN, UH, CONFERENCES THAT HAPPENED AROUND HOLIDAYS THAT PEOPLE MIGHT EXTEND TO STAY LONGER DURING HOLIDAYS, AS OPPOSED TO NOT, UH, IN, AS FAR AS HOTEL ROOMS, UH, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S ENTIRELY POSSIBLE.

IT'S A FUNCTION OF THE BOOKING ARRANGEMENT WITH YOUR DESTINATION MARKETING ORGANIZATION VISIT AUSTIN.

BUT AGAIN, THESE ARE THE NUMBERS THAT ARE, THAT WERE PROVIDED BY CITY STAFF.

OKAY.

AND PRESUMABLY EQUIVALENT TO THE NUMBERS THAT CITY STAFF AND, AND, AND THE IN, AND THE BREAKDOWNS THAT CITY STAFF HAS PROVIDED TO OUTSIDE CONSULTANTS REAL QUICKLY.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE METHODOLOGY IS THAT WAS USED FOR ANY OF THESE NUMBERS? I MEAN, I KNOW YOU SAID THEY PRESENTED THE INFORMATION, BUT DID THAT, DOES THAT REPORT INCLUDE A METHODOLOGY FOR HOW THEY ESTIMATE THOSE? I, I WOULD, UH, I I'D BE GLAD TO SHIP ALONG TO YOUR STAFF LIAISON, MONA SANCHEZ, UH, A COPY OF THE, YOUR ORIGINAL MEMO FROM THE STAFF TO THE COUNCIL MEMBER THAT I HAVE, AND YOU CAN SEE WHAT THERE IS.

OKAY.

LET'S GO AHEAD AND CONFIRM IF YOU'D LIKE ME TO MOVE AHEAD.

CHAIR HARRIS.

OKAY.

YOU'LL NOTE, I MENTIONED THE SOCIETY OF WOMEN ENGINEERS THAT YOU HOSTED IN THE PAST IN 2017, YOU'LL NOTE FROM SWE, HIS WEBSITE, THEIR PAST CONFERENCE, LOCATION, AND ATTENDANCE, AS WELL AS THEIR FUTURE LOCATIONS.

UH, THEY HAVE SINCE ADDED A 20, 25 LOCATION IN ATLANTA AT THE GEORGIA WORLD CONGRESS CENTER.

I WANT TO MAKE A POINT HERE, UH, TO GIVE YOU A SENSE OF, UH, KINDS OF VENUES THAT YOU ARE COMPETING AGAINST FOR ROTATING NATIONAL EVENTS LIKE SWE, I WOULD NOTE IN PASSING THAT THE CENTERS IN INDIANAPOLIS, ANAHEIM, PHILADELPHIA, AND NASHVILLE TO SAY NOTHING OF THE CENTERS, THE GEORGE R. BROWN CENTER IN HOUSTON, A LOS ANGELES CONVENTION CENTER.

AND OF COURSE CHICAGO'S MCCORMICK PLACE, WHICH IS THE LARGEST CENTER IN THE COUNTRY AT, IN EXCESS OF 2 MILLION SQUARE FEET OF EXHIBIT HALL SPACE, OR ROUGHLY 10 TIMES THE SIZE OF THE AUSTIN CENTER.

UM, THE NATURE OF THE COMPETITIVE ENVIRONMENT TODAY IS THAT NO MATTER HOW BIG IT IS, AUSTIN IS COMPETING AND WILL CONTINUE TO COMPETE WITH THE LARGEST CENTERS IN THE COUNTRY, BECAUSE THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT THE COMPETITIVE MARKETPLACE LOOKS LIKE AND HOW IT FUNCTIONS.

UH, AND THIS FROM THE 2020 HBS REPORT, UH, ON THE PROPOSED EXPANSION GIVES YOU A SENSE OF WHERE YOU ARE NOW, UH, IN TERMS OF EXHIBIT SPACE, BALLROOM AND MEETING SPACE AND WHERE THE THEN PROPOSED EXPANSION WOULD PUT YOU, UH, YOU WILL NOTE AGAIN, RELATIVE TO THAT COMPETITIVE REALITY, THAT YOU'D STILL BE SMALLER THAN HOUSTON, UH, AND ONLY SLIGHTLY LARGER IN TOTAL SIZE, BUT ACTUALLY SMALLER IN EXHIBIT HALLS SPACE.

THEN THE KING BAILEY HUTCHISON CONVENTION CENTER IN DALLAS.

UH, WE'LL GET BACK TO THAT.

CAUSE THAT'S A PARTICULAR NOTE HERE.

[00:35:02]

UH, TWO OTHER MENTIONS THE SPICE WORLD EVENT THAT YOU ACCOMMODATED, UH, WE'LL BE BACK IN AUSTIN, UH, LATER THIS YEAR IN SEPTEMBER, BUT AS OPPOSED TO ITS EARLIER INCARNATION, WHEN IT WAS ENTIRELY IN-PERSON, SPICEWORLD LIKE A GREAT MANY OTHER SUCH EVENTS TODAY WILL BE A HYBRID EVENT THAT WILL OFFER ATTENDEES THE OPTION OF ATTENDING IN PERSON OR VIRTUALLY NEEDLESS TO SAY, VIRTUAL ATTENDANCE WILL HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE NUMBER OF, OUT OF TOWN VISITORS TO AUSTIN FOR THAT EVENT, AS IT WILL FOR ANY OTHER EVENT THAT CHOOSES TO AS A GREAT MANY HAVE FUNCTIONED IN THE FUTURE IN HYBRID FORM.

AND AGAIN, TO GIVE YOU A SENSE OF THE KINDS OF DESTINATIONS, YOU ARE COMPETING WITH THIS FROM THE AMERICAN VETERINARY MEDICAL ASSOCIATION EVENT, UH, WHICH IS ON THE BOOKS FOR AUSTIN TWO YEARS.

HENCE, UH, FINALLY, WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO IS SPEND A COUPLE OF MINUTES TAKING A LOOK BASED ON THAT, UH, DATA THAT THE STAFF SHARED WITH COUNCIL MEMBER ALTAR, UH, AT THE RECENT PERFORMANCE OF THE CONVENTION CENTER.

YOU MAY RECALL THE NUMBERS THAT I SHARED WITH YOU EARLIER IN TERMS OF THE FORECAST ATTENDANCE FROM CHARLIE JOHNSON'S 1997 REPORT, AS WELL AS THE NUMBER OF HOTEL ROOM NIGHTS JOHNSON FORECAST THAT THE EXPANDED AUSTIN CONVENTION CENTER WOULD GENERATE, UH, FOR THE MOMENT.

LET ME FOCUS ON HIS FORECAST OF HOTEL ROOM NIGHTS.

I TRUST YOU RECALL THAT THAT FIGURE WAS A TOTAL OF 332,600 EACH YEAR.

UH, YOU SHOULD NOTE, UH, THAT IN THESE, EACH OF THESE THREE YEARS PRIOR TO THE PANDEMIC, THIS CENTURY DID NOT REACH THAT 332,000 FIGURE IN TOTAL.

AND THAT WHEN ADJUSTING BY EXCLUDING THE SOUTH BY SOUTHWEST FIGURE, UM, BOTH OF THE ATTENDANCE AND THE HOTEL ROOM NIGHT GENERATION WERE SIGNIFICANT LEGAL S THAN THE 332,600 THAT JOHNSON FORECASTS.

THIS IS NOT AN UNUSUAL OUTCOME WITH ONLY THE RAREST OF EXCEPTIONS OVER THE LAST 20 ODD YEARS, NEW AND EXPANDED CONVENTION CENTERS HAVE FAILED TO REACH THE LEVEL FORECASTS I CAN THEN OUTSIDE CONVENTION CENTER CONSULTANT, INTEGRATE MANY CASES.

UH, THE ACTUAL ATTENDANCE AND HOTEL ROOM NIGH GENERATION HAS AMOUNTED TO HALF OR LESS OF WHAT THE CONSULTANT FORECAST.

CAN I ASK YOU ONE THING? UM, CERTAINLY YOU SHOWN THAT THE PROJECTION AND THE 1997 LETTER THERE'S 329,000, BUT IF I'M LOOKING AT THE CHART CORRECTLY, F Y 16, 17, AND 1718, BOTH EXCEEDED THOSE NUMBERS AND YES, FOR ATTENDANCE, BUT WE NOTE FOR EXAMPLE, AND IT'S PARTICULARLY RELEVANT THAT IN THE CASE OF THE SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF INDIVIDUAL EVENTS, THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE IDENTIFIED AS CONVENTION EVENTS BY THE CITY STAFF, BUT THEY ARE OVERWHELMINGLY ATTENDED BY LOCALS, THEIR GENERATION OF ROOM NIGHTS, AS IN THE CASE OF, OF DREAM HACK.

UH, I SHOULD MENTION THE RTX GAMING CONVENTION AS WELL.

UH, AND SOUTH BY SOUTHWEST IS SIGNIFICANTLY LESS THEN THE NUMBER OF ATTENDEES, THE CENTER, EVEN WHEN IT DRAWS CONVENTION ATTENDANCE IN THOSE CASES IS DRAWING FOLKS FROM THE IMMEDIATE AUSTIN VICINITY, THOSE ATTENDEES DO WHAT WE CALL DATE RIPPING.

THEY DRIVE IN FOR THE DAY AND THEY DRIVE HOME AT NIGHT.

[00:40:01]

THE RESULT IS THEY DON'T OCCUPY HOTEL ROOMS. THEY DON'T GENERATE FOR THE CITY HOTEL, OCCUPANCY TAX OR HOT REVENUES.

THEY ESSENTIALLY DON'T BRING IN ANY NEW SPENDING THOUGH.

THEY MAY PAY FOR PARKING AND LUNCH DOWNTOWN.

UH, THAT IS A SIGNIFICANT ISSUE FOR SOME CONVENTION CENTER AND NOTABLY FOR AUSTIN CONVENTION CENTER.

SIR, ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR SHALL I MOVE ON? NO, I HAVE, I HAVE A QUESTION.

UM, AS YOU LOOK AT TRENDS THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY, UH, I'M JUST WONDERING IF I WAS RUNNING A COMPANY, UM, AND SENDING PEOPLE TO A CONFERENCE BECAUSE THIS IS THE CONFERENCE FOR THE BUSINESS THAT I RUN.

AND IF I WAS TIGHTENING MY BELT, I WOULD SAY YOU CAN GO, BUT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SHARE A ROOM AS OPPOSED TO HAVING, UH, INDIVIDUAL ROOMS. AND I'M JUST WONDERING IF, UM, IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU GUYS KEEP TRACK OF, IF, IF THERE ARE MORE BECAUSE OF FINANCES, THERE ARE MORE COMPANIES SENDING PEOPLE IN SAYING YOU HAVE TO SHARE A ROOM INSTEAD OF GETTING SEPARATE ROOMS. ARE YOU, ARE YOU ASKING THAT PRE COVID OR, OR IN THE CURRENT ENVIRONMENT OR THE WHERE THE, YOUR EXPECTATION OR, OR THE, MY EXPECTATION ABOUT THE FUTURE? WELL, I THINK IT WOULD BE NICE TO GET, TO GET IT ALL, UH, FOR, FOR ALL OF THOSE EVENTS, BUT I, I, I'M WONDERING MORE AS, UH, AS THINGS HAVE TIGHTENED UP, UM, IF, IF THAT, IN FACT IS SOMETHING THAT'S HAPPENING, NOT JUST IN AUSTIN, BUT IN OTHER PLACES ALSO.

OH YEAH.

I MEAN, IT'S HAPPENING TO A SIGNIFICANT DEGREE NOW, AGAIN, SOME OF WHAT I JUST DESCRIBED FOR AUSTIN IS THE NATURE OF THE EVENT, A GAMING CONVENTION, LIKE RTX OR DREAM IS A VERY DIFFERENT KIND OF CONVENTION THAN A PROFESSIONAL MEETING OF THE VETERAN AREAS.

UM, BUT YOU KNOW, I, I THINK IF YOU'LL RECALL THOSE CHARTS LOOKING AT SOME OF THE INDIVIDUAL EVENTS, LIKE THE AMERICAN HEART ASSOCIATION, UH, ANNUAL SCIENTIFIC SESSIONS, IT'S QUITE CLEAR THAT 2008 HAD A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON ATTENDANCE, UH, WHAT SEEMS TO HAVE HAPPENED.

AND AGAIN, TO SOME DEGREE, IT'S GOING TO VARY BY EVENT AND, AND WHO GOES TO THESE MEETINGS, UH, IS THAT A VARIETY OF ORGANIZATIONS? UH, LET'S SAY THE, THE SCHOOL BOARD, THE NATIONAL SCHOOL BOARD ASSOCIATION, UH, SEE IS ITS ATTENDANCE IMPACTED BY THE FACT THAT IN THE WAKE OF A RECESSION, WHEN PUBLIC AGENCIES ARE MUCH MORE FISCALLY STRAPPED, THEY'RE NOT PREPARED TO SEND A WHOLE BUNCH OF THEIR BOARD MEMBERS TO A NATIONAL MEETING.

UH, IT'S MUCH THE SAME FOR INDIVIDUAL FIRMS SENDING REPRESENTATIVES TO A TRADE SHOW.

UM, IT'S MUCH THE SAME FOR ME IN MY UNIVERSITY PAYING TO SEND ME TO AN ACADEMIC CONFERENCE.

OKAY.

AND SO IN THOSE CASES, YES, FOLKS CUT BACK.

THEY EITHER CEASE PROVIDING FINANCIAL AID OR PICKING UP THE ENTIRE TAB FOR SENDING EMPLOYEES TO A MEETING EVENT, OR THEY SEND THEM FOR FEWER DAYS OR THEY SEND FEWER PEOPLE.

THE LAST OF WHICH HAS BECOME QUITE COMMON.

UH, I'LL SHARE A LITTLE VIEW OF, OF WHAT'S GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE FUTURE, BUT YEAH, IT'S VERY CLEAR THAT POST 2008, UH, AS HAS FINANCES OF BERMS AND, UH, AND ORGANIZATIONS BE THEY PROFIT MAKING FIRMS OR HOSPITALS OR SCHOOL BOARDS, OR THE CITY OF AUSTIN CUT BACK ON FINANCING ATTENDANCE AT DISTRICT MEETINGS.

OH YEAH.

I, I JUST HAD A THOUGHT ABOUT THE SOUTH BY SOUTHWEST STUFF BECAUSE, UH, I DO A LOT OF WORK IN THE HOMELESS, UH, FIELD.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE NOTICED BACK WHEN SOUTH BY SOUTHWEST FIRST STARTED WAS THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT WERE COMING TO SOUTH BY SOUTHWEST AND STAYING IN THE SHELTERS JUST SO THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO PAY FOR THE HOTELS.

AND IT WAS COOL TO DO THAT.

UM, AND I, I JUST WONDER IF, IF, UH, IF ANYBODY'S INTERESTED IN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IF THE, THE CAPACITY

[00:45:01]

AT THE SHELTERS WAS ABOVE CAPACITY ON THE DAYS THAT ON THE, ON THOSE TIMES FROM SOUTH BY SOUTHWEST WAS, WAS IN THE CITY, BECAUSE THERE WERE A LOT OF PEOPLE, UM, THAT WOULD USE THE SHELTERS DURING THAT TIME.

AND SADLY, SOME OF THEM STUCK AROUND.

SO ANYWAY, JUST STANDING A SIDE NOTE.

YEAH.

I CAN'T IDENTIFY YOU BY VOICE.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, I WOULD SUGGEST THAT LOOK AT THAT INDIVIDUAL EVENT, DATA RAISES A GREAT MANY QUESTIONS, UH, ABOUT WHO'S COUNTING WHAT AND HOW, AND WHAT IT AMOUNTS TO, UH, AND THAT THOSE QUESTIONS MERIT SOME SERIOUS, UH, ANALYSIS AND REVIEW, UH, UH, JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, IF A COMMISSIONERS WANT TO SPEAK, PLEASE IDENTIFY YOURSELVES FIRST FOR THE RECORD.

THANK YOU.

OKAY.

AND WITH THAT, I'M GOING TO MOVE ON.

THAT WOULD BE WONDERFUL.

THANK YOU.

UH, SO NOW WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO IS DEAL SPECIFICALLY A LITTLE BIT WITH THE, THE MATERIAL THAT WAS PRESENTED IN THE 2020 REPORT BY HVS INVENTION, SPORTS AND ENTERTAINMENT CONSULTING, UH, AND TOM HAS IN SKI.

AND SO THE NEXT COUPLE OF SLIDES JUST COME RIGHT OUT OF THE 2020 HBS REPORT THAT THE STAFF HAS, UH, HAS MENTIONED WITH SOME REGULARITY.

UH, HERE, YOU'LL SEE THE DEMAND HISTORY.

UH, AND WHAT I WANT TO NOTE IS A COUPLE OF THINGS.

UH, YOU WILL NOTE A, THE NUMBER OF CONVENTIONS HERE, UM, IN THE HIGH THIRTIES, 1 42 IN 2017 AT A VERY MODEST NUMBER OF TRADE SHOWS.

THESE NUMBERS OF COURSE, OF EVENTS ARE SIGNIFICANTLY LESS THAN THE JOHNSON CONSULTING FORECAST IN THAT 1997 REPORT.

UH, IN THIS CASE, HVS HAS BROKEN OUT CONVENTION ATTENDANCE FROM ATTENDANCE AT SOUTH BY SOUTHWEST, WHICH YOU WILL SEE IN THAT BOTTOM ROW.

WELL, I'M SORRY, ONE UP FROM THE BOTTOM ROW.

UH, AND AGAIN, IT SHOULD BE PARTICULARLY NOTABLE THAT THE ATTENDANCE AT THE CONVENTION CENTER IN AGGREGATE, BUT IN PARTICULAR AT CONVENTIONS AND TRADE SHOWS IS REALLY DOMINATED, UH, BY THE MONTH LONG SOUTH BY SOUTHWEST PRESENCE, UH, EACH MARCH, UH, THOSE CONVENTION ATTENDANCE NUMBERS, UNDERESTIMATED ATTENDEES, UH, COMPARE, COMPARE PRETTY CLOSELY TO THE FISCAL YEAR DATA THAT WAS PROVIDED TO COUNCIL MEMBER ALTAR.

UH, AND AGAIN, IF WE EXCLUDE SOUTH BY SOUTHWEST, YOU CAN COMPARE THAT TO THE 329,000 TOTAL, UH, FORECAST BY JOHNSON.

UH, HERE ARE, UH, UH, HAS IN SKIS, DEMAND, PROJECTION FORECASTS.

UH, SO YOU WILL KNOW, UH, FROM A 2024 BASE, ROUGHLY COMPARABLE TO THE PRE PANDEMIC TOTALS, UH, THE NUMBER OF CONVENTIONS IS FORECAST TO INCREASE BY JUST OVER 70% WITH AN INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF CONVENTION ATTENDEES ON THE ORDER OF 77%.

IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, THAT'S A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN ATTENDANCE FORECAST.

UH, AND ONE NOTABLE THING, UH, IS THAT THIS HBS REPORT NOT SURPRISINGLY BECAUSE THAT IS THE NORM FOR SUCH REPORTS HAS NOT PROVIDED ANY, ANY EVIDENCE OF OTHER CONVENTION CENTER EXPANSIONS ELSEWHERE THAT HAVE SEEN ATTENDANCE CONVENTION ATTENDANCE INCREASES ON THE ORDER OF 70% OR MORE.

UH, I WOULD ALSO NOTE, HE SHOWS THAT SOUTH BY SOUTHWEST ATTENDANCE WOULD GROW FROM AN ESTIMATED 161,000 TO 250,000.

UH, BUT YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU ALL SHOULD BE AWARE THAT CONVENTION

[00:50:01]

CENTER EXPANSIONS NOW CURRENTLY UNDERWAY OR PROPOSED ARE BY NO MEANS LIMITED TO THE CITY OF AUSTIN.

UH, SO LET ME SHARE THIS PARTICULAR STAFF PRESENTATION FROM A FEW MONTHS AGO, UH, BY THE CITY OF DALLAS STAFF TO THEIR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE REGARDING, UH, THE MASTER PLAN FOR REDEVELOPMENT AND EXPANSION OF THE KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON CONVENTION CENTER IN DALLAS.

UH, THIS SLIDE FROM THAT OCTOBER, 2021 PRESENTATION SHOWS THE TOTAL SHOWS THE VARIOUS FUNDING SOURCES, UH, AS WELL AS THE TOTAL PROPOSED FUNDING AT THE BOTTOM OF THE SLIDE OF $4 BILLION OR MORE.

AND THE DALLAS CITY STAFF ALSO SHARED THEIR CONSULTANTS ASSESSMENT OF CURRENT PERFORMANCE AND FORECAST POST EXPANSION.

YOU WILL NOTE THAT THE DALLAS CONVENTION CENTER WAS DESCRIBED AS THEN GENERATING 300 CIRCA 330,000 HOTEL ROOM NIGHTS, AND THEN EXPANSION WOULD MORE THAN DOUBLE THAT TOTAL TO CIRCA 700,000 ROOM NIGHTS, A FORECAST SIMILAR TO THE ONE PROVIDED BY, UH, HBS FOR YOU, UH, ALTHOUGH BY A DIFFERENT CONSULTANT.

UH, I DIDN'T HAVE A CHANCE TO SHARE THAT AS PART OF THIS PRESENTATION, UH, BUT THAT CONSULTANT, UH, ROB HUNTIN BY NAME, UH, IS CURRENTLY EMPLOYED BY THE CITY OF FORT WORTH AND HAS PROVIDED AN ANALYSIS OF THEIR PROPOSED CONVENTION CENTER EXPANSION, UH, SUGGESTING THAT AN EXPANSION OF THE CENTER, UH, COUPLED WITH THE DEVELOPMENT OF TWO ADJACENT THOUSAND ROOM HOTELS WOULD PRODUCE A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN BOTH CONVENTION AND TRADE SHOW, ATTENDANCE AND HOTEL ROOM NIGHT GENERATION FOR FORT WORTH.

UM, JUST A COUPLE OF QUICK VIEWS OF WHERE WE ARE NOW ON SOME INDIVIDUAL EVENTS, UH, THE RADIOLOGICAL SOCIETY OF NORTH AMERICA, SORRY FOR THE TYPO.

I DIDN'T CATCH THAT OUR SNA MEETS ANNUALLY AT MCCORMICK PLACE IN CHICAGO, UH, IN LATE NOVEMBER OR EARLY DECEMBER.

UH, THIS CHART SHOWS THAT THEIR ATTENDANCE HISTORY FROM THE MID 1990S, UH, THAT RED DOT DOWN BY THE BOTTOM IS THE 2021, UH, JUST A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO PAST ATTENDANCE.

IN-PERSON, UH, THE CONSUMER ELECTRONIC SHOW CES IS HELD EVERY IN LAS VEGAS.

UH, AND AGAIN, I KNOW, UH, IN THE RED IT'S ATTENDANCE, UH, IN JANUARY OF 2022, AND FINALLY JUST A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO IN LAS VEGAS, UH, THE ANNUAL WORLD OF CONCRETE CONSTRUCTION SHOW, I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T MANAGE TO BREAK THEM ONE OUT SEPARATELY AND READ, UH, BUT I THINK YOU CAN GET A SENSE OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO ATTENDANCE THERE.

UH, IT'S ALSO INTERESTING THAT THE WORLD OF CONCRETE, UH, ATTENDANCE HISTORY NEATLY ILLUSTRATES THE KIND OF PHENOMENON THAT WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT IN THE WAKE OF THE 2008 RECESSION, UH, AND IT'S IMPACTED IN THIS CASE, ON THE CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY.

UH, AND WITH THAT, I'M DONE.

UH, SO IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, THANK YOU, PROFESSOR SANDERS, UH, COMMISSIONER'S QUESTIONS, COMMISSIONER GOMEZ.

I WAS WONDERING, I WAS WONDERING ON THE SECOND AND THIRD TO THE LAST SLIDES THAT YOU SHOWED THE RED DOT BEING, WHERE AT THE BOTTOM IT WOULD, IT WOULD WHERE THERE WAS IT A VIRTUAL OR HYBRID SITUATION.

AND THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY SHOWED UP WAS VERY, VERY SMALL, BUT WE'RE THERE THE TOTAL NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT REGISTERED AND ACTUALLY TOOK PART IN THE CONFERENCE

[00:55:01]

THAT MIGHT'VE DONE IT VIRTUALLY, WAS THAT NUMBER CONSISTENT, OR AT LEAST CLOSE TO WHAT IT HAD BEEN IN YEARS BEFORE? UH, TH TH THE ANSWER FOR OUR SNA AND THE CHICAGO, UH, COMMISSIONER WAS THE, THE THAT'S THE IN-PERSON NUMBER, RATHER THAN THE NOT, NOT INCLUDING VIRTUAL ATTENDANCE, RSNH HAD STARTED VIRTUAL ATTENDANCE PRIOR TO THE PANDEMIC.

UH, IF YOU'D LIKE, I'LL GET YOU THE EXACT NUMBERS, BUT, YOU KNOW, FOR MY PURPOSES, THE REALLY RELEVANT ISSUE IS, UH, IS IN PERSON ATTENDANCE.

CAUSE THAT'S THE THING THAT'S GONNA, THAT'S GONNA BRING ANY COMMUNITY OUT OF TOWN VISITORS THAT FILL THE HOTELS AND BUY MEALS IN RESTAURANTS, ET CETERA.

BUT IF YOU, IF YOU'D LIKE ME TO TRY AND GET THE, THE VIRTUAL ATTENDANCE FIGURES FOR 2021 AND EARLIER, I'D BE GLAD TO, WELL, MY REASON FOR ASKING IS THAT IF THE TREND CONTINUES TO BE THAT VIRTUAL ATTENDANCE IS, IS GOING TO BE MUCH GREATER THAN PEOPLE COMING INTO THE CITY, UH, THEN, THEN MAYBE OUR CONVENTION CENTER IS BIG ENOUGH.

UH, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT, I'M NOT SURE, UH, BUT IF YOU COULD, IT WOULD BE NICE TO SEE THE DATA.

YEAH, THAT WOULD BE FINE.

I THINK THE CONCLUDE THAT CONCLUSION IS AN ENTIRELY REALISTIC ONE, QUITE FRANKLY.

AND, AND LET ME STRESS SOMETHING ELSE, UM, WHICH I DIDN'T MENTION WHEN I PROVIDED YOU THAT, UH, THAT CHART ON THE MA THOSE FOUR MAJOR CENTERS, COMMISSIONER, TH THE AGGREGATE ATTENDANCE OF THOSE FOUR IN 2019 WAS ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME AS WHAT IT WAS IN 1996, NOT WITHSTANDING THE FACT THAT THOSE CENTERS IN THE AGGREGATE HAD EXPANDED THEIR SPACE BY 61%.

OVER THAT PERIOD, THERE IS NO NECESSARY RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN EXPANDING A CENTER AND GETTING MORE BUSINESS OVER AND OVER CITIES HAVE EXPANDED EXISTING CENTERS AND SEEN THE SAME ATTENDANCE THEY USED TO HAVE, OR LESS A CLASSIC EXAMPLE IS THE PENNSYLVANIA CONVENTION CENTER IN PHILADELPHIA.

IN 2003, THEY EMPLOYED THE CSL FIRM TO DO A STUDY, A MARKET STUDY OF A PLANNED EXPANSION THAT STUDY, WHICH I'M GLAD TO SHARE, UH, DOCUMENTED THAT THE AVERAGE ATTENDANCE PRIOR TO THAT DATE WAS 500.

I'M SORRY, THE AVERAGE HOTEL ROOM NIGHT PRODUCTION ANNUALLY PRIOR TO THAT DATE WAS 503,000 AND FORECAST THAT THE EXPANDED CENTER WOULD ACCOMMODATE 786,000 HOTEL ROOM NIGHTS, OR PRODUCE 786,000 HOTEL ROOM NIGHTS.

AS I RECALL, IT'S HOTEL ROOM NIGHT PRODUCTION IN 2019 WAS APPROXIMATELY 380,000 ROOM NIGHTS.

THAT IS TO SAY SIGNIFICANTLY LESS THAN THAT CENTER HAD PRODUCED IN THE EARLY TWO THOUSANDS.

GETTING MORE SPACE DOESN'T NECESSARILY GET YOU ANY MORE BUSINESS, LAS VEGAS AS WELL, DOUBLED THE SIZE OF THEIR CENTER IN 2002.

AND THEIR 2019 BUSINESS WAS JUST ABOUT THE SAME AS IT WAS IN 1999 AND 2000 PRIOR TO THE EXPANSION.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

UH, COMMISSIONER GOMEZ.

YEAH, I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION.

THERE WAS A DISCUSSION IN YEARS PAST, AS, AS THIS HAS BEEN AN ISSUE FOR A WHILE HERE IN AUSTIN, THAT D THAT WE HAD LOST A LOT OF CONVENTIONS BECAUSE, UH, WE DIDN'T HAVE THE SIZE.

UM, AND I'M JUST WONDERING IF, HOW TRUE THAT WAS.

WELL, IS IT TRUE? IS IT TRUE THAT VISIT AUSTIN ELECTS LOST BUSINESS DATA? AND THE ANSWER IS YES, VISIT AUSTIN.

LIKE ESSENTIALLY EVERY ONE OF ITS COMPETITIVE COUNTERPART DESTINATION MARKETING ORGANIZATIONS COLLECTS AND BREAKS DOWN LOST BUSINESS.

OKAY.

AND AS YOU MAY RECALL, COMMISSIONER GOMEZ IN JULY 19 7, 19 77, I'M SORRY, THE JOHNSON CONSULTING REPORT

[01:00:01]

BASED ITS ARGUMENT THAT AUSTIN WAS TOO SMALL ON LOSS BUSINESS REPORTS.

YOU KNOW, I LIKEN THAT TO TALKING ABOUT CAR DEALERS.

IF SOMEBODY WALKS INTO THE CAR DEALERSHIP, IN-PERSON ACTUALLY, OR VIRTUALLY AND WALKS OUT WITHOUT BUYING A CAR, THAT'S LOST BUSINESS.

SO EVERY SINGLE CONVENTION CENTER IN THIS COUNTRY HAS LOST BUSINESS AND NO MATTER HOW BIG THEY ARE OR HOW SMALL THEY HAVE LOST BUSINESS, IS THERE, IS THERE ANY RESEARCH THAT DOCUMENTS THAT EXPANDING A CENTER ALLOWS YOU TO ATTRACT A SIGNIFICANT FRACTION OF THAT LOST BUSINESS? AND THE ANSWER IS NO.

I MEAN, IF YOU'D LIKE, I'D BE PLEASED TO SHARE WITH YOU AND YOUR COLLEAGUES, ANY NUMBER OF CONSULTANT REPORTS AND REPORTS FROM INDIVIDUAL CENTERS SHOWING LOST BUSINESS, EVERYBODY HAS LOST BUSINESS.

AND IN FACT, WHAT'S EVEN MORE PECULIAR ABOUT LOST BUSINESS.

LET ME, IF YOU RECALL, THE EXAMPLE I GAVE YOU FOR, FOR THE ORGANIZATION FOR HUMAN BRAIN MAPPING WERE PHILADELPHIA HAD LOST BUSINESS AND AUSTIN HAD LOST BUSINESS AND NEW ORLEANS HAD LOST BUSINESS BECAUSE EACH OF THEM RESPONDED TO THAT PROPOSAL AND THE GROUP CHOSE CHOSE MONTREAL INSTEAD.

SO NOT ONLY, NOT ONLY IS THERE NO NECESSARY RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN VOLUME OF LOST BUSINESS AND THE ACTUAL CAPTURE OF THAT, IF YOU EXPAND A LOCAL CONVENTION AND VISITOR BUREAU CAN, CAN GENERATE LOST BUSINESS SIMPLY BY RESPONDING TO PROPOSALS, WHETHER THEY'RE COMPETITIVE OR NOT.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT IF, IF, IF I, IF I OFFER MY SPACE OR RESPOND TO MORE PROPOSALS FROM INDIVIDUAL EVENTS, THEN I'M GOING TO HAVE MORE LOST BUSINESS COMMISSIONER.

MEISENBACH MIKE ON, PLEASE, PROFESSOR SANDERS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR PRESENTATION.

UM, I'M NOT REALLY INTERESTED IN FIGURES USUALLY, BUT YOU'VE MADE THESE VERY INTERESTING AND I, I APPRECIATE ALSO YOUR, UM, APPRECIATION FOR ALL THE DIFFERENT KINDS OF CONVENTIONS AND ORGANIZATIONS, BUT I, I MAY HAVE MISSED A MEMO, BUT COULD YOU GIVE ME YOUR CREDENTIALS AND WHERE YOU HAVE BEEN A PROFESSOR MAYBE BRIEFLY, OR IS THAT AVAILABLE SOMEWHERE THAT I MISSED? WELL, MY, MY, MY, MY CURRICULUM VITAE, MY CV IS AVAILABLE ONLINE, BUT I'M PLEASED TO TELL YOU BRIEFLY, SHALL I START WITH MY EDUCATION BRIEFLY? YOU'RE A PROFESSOR AT AN INSTITUTION AND MAYBE ARE YOU PROFESSOR OF STATISTICS OR SOCIAL SENTIMENT? NOT AT ALL, NOT, NOT AT ALL COMMISSIONER.

UH, I AM, I AM EMPLOYED AT THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS AT SAN ANTONIO IN THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION.

I AM A PROFESSOR OF PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION.

I UNDERGRADUATE DEGREE IS FROM JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY.

MY GRADUATE DEGREE IN GOVERNMENT IS FROM HARVARD UNIVERSITY.

I HAVE PREVIOUS TO TEACHING AT UTS, WHICH I BEGAN IN 2001.

UH, I PREVIOUSLY HAD TAUGHT AT BROWN UNIVERSITY, THE UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS AND TRINITY UNIVERSITY IN SAN ANTONIO.

I'VE RESEARCHED, WRITTEN AND PUBLISH ON CONVENTION CENTERS AND CONVENTION CENTER PERFORMANCE SINCE THE MID 1990S, INCLUDING A 2015 BOOK CONVENTION CENTER, FOLLIES PUBLISHED BY THE UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA PRESS.

UH, AND I CONTINUE TO RESEARCH AND EXAMINE CONVENTION CENTERS AROUND THE COUNTRY ON A REGULAR BASIS.

IS THAT, OH, YES.

OH YES.

I'M MORE THAN ENOUGH.

I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

NOT QUESTIONING YOUR EXPERTISE.

JUST CURIOUS ABOUT THE WHOLE THING FULLY ALLOWED YOU TO QUESTION MY EXPERTISE, BUT IF THAT ANSWERS YOU, THAT'S FINE.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

UH, COMMISSIONER, LIKE, YEAH.

UM, JUST A COUPLE OF, EXCUSE MY IGNORANCE HERE.

UM, THIS IS NOT A SUBJECT I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH, BUT, UM, IT SEEMS LIKE RECENTLY

[01:05:01]

OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS, THE DESIRABILITY OF LOCATIONS HAS SHIFTED.

AND SO ARE THERE EXAMPLES OF LOCATIONS THAT IS GROWING THEIR CONVENTION BUSINESS? UH, YEAH, THERE ARE A COUPLE, UH, WE STICK TO MAJOR ONES, UH, AND, AND LET ME DO WHAT I CAN TO EXPLAIN SOME OF THE BULL.

WHY, IF THAT, IF YOU'D LIKE, OKAY, SURE.

UM, AMONG THE FOUR CENTERS THAT THE FOUR MAJOR CENTERS THAT I, UH, I PRESENTED YOU INFORMATION ON EARLIER THREE OF THE FOUR HAVE CONSISTENTLY LOST A BUSINESS, THE ONLY CENTER, UH, THAT HAS SEEN ANY REAL INCREASE IN ITS CONVENTION.

ATTENDANCE IS THE ORANGE COUNTY CONVENTION CENTER IN ORLANDO.

UH, IT DOUBLED ITS SIZE AND IT SAW A RELATIVELY MODEST INCREASE.

I'LL BE GLAD TO GET YOU THE EXACT NUMBERS IF YOU WAIT A COUPLE OF MOMENTS, BUT, UM, SO THAT LEADS ME TO ASK, WELL, WHY HAS THE ORANGE COUNTY CENTER DONE WELL WHEN OTHERS HAVE NOT? UH, AND THERE'S A TWOFOLD EXPLANATION.

UH, ONE IS, AS I TRUST YOU NOTED FROM THAT CONTRACT FOR MCDONALD'S, UH, THE ORANGE COUNTY CENTER HAS BEEN PARTICULARLY ENERGETIC AND VIGOROUS AND GENEROUS IN OFFERING DISCOUNTS AND INCENTIVES OF A VARIETY OF FORMS. UH, IT HAS ALSO SUCCEEDED IN ATTRACTING EVENTS FROM OTHER CENTERS, NOTABLY FROM MCCORMICK PLACE IN CHICAGO OF EVENTS LIKE THE PLASTICS CONVENTION, FOR EXAMPLE, BUT ONE NOTABLE THING ABOUT, UH, THE ORLANDO VENUE IS THAT IT HAS SEEN A SIGNIFICANT SHIFT IN RECENT YEARS, THAT IS RECENT PRE PANDEMIC YEARS, AND THE NATURE OF WHAT THAT, THE KINDS OF EVENTS THAT CONSTITUTE THAT CONVENTION AND TRADE SHOW ATTENDANCE IN PARTICULAR, WHAT HAS INCREASED, UH, ACCORDING TO THE ORANGE COUNTY CENTER'S ANNUAL REPORTS IS SO-CALLED SMURF BUSINESS.

UH, SMURF IS AN ACRONYM STANDING FOR SOCIAL, MILITARY EDUCATIONAL, RELIGIOUS, AND FRATERNAL GROUPS.

AND THOSE ARE BY AND LARGE EVENTS THAT ATTRACT INDIVIDUALS WHO PAY THEIR OWN WAY, UH, AND QUITE OFTEN DOUBLE OR TRIPLE OR QUADRUPLE UP IN HOTEL ROOMS AND, AND ORDERING PIZZA OR MCDONALD'S.

UH, IN ADDITION, ORLANDO HAS BEEN PARTICULARLY VIGOROUS IN ATTRACTING AMATEUR SPORTS EVENTS, UH, JUNIOR NATIONAL JUNIOR VOLLEYBALL COMPETITIONS, AND SO-CALLED ON EVENTS.

UH, THE CON EVENTS ARE TYPICALLY POS PLAY OR COSTUME PLAY EVENTS, UH, SIMILAR TO THE KIND OF GRANDDADDY HTAN EVENT, THE COMIC CON EVENT ANNUALLY IN SAN DIEGO.

UH, AND THOSE EVENTS HAVE, UH, HAVE THE CHARACTERISTIC SIMILAR TO SOUTH BY AND DREAM HACK OF ATTRACTING LARGE NUMBERS OF LOCALS.

SO FOR EXAMPLE, COMIC CON IN SAN DIEGO ATTRACTS, UH, OR THE CENTER REPORTS 130,000 ANNUAL ATTENDEES, UH, BUT A NUMBER OF HOTEL ROOM NIGHTS.

AS I RECALL OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD ON THE ORDER OF ABOUT 30,000 IN THE CASE OF THE ORANGE COUNTY CENTER IN ORLANDO, UH, THEY HOST AN EVENT CALLED MEGA CON THAT SIMILARLY HAS ENORMOUS ATTENDANCE, UH, BUT A RELATIVELY LOW NUMBER OF HOTEL ROOM NIGHT GENERATION.

UH, THE ONE OTHER CASE THAT ISN'T, THAT HAS BEEN AN EXCEPTION IS THE INDIANA CONVENTION CENTER IN INDIANAPOLIS, UH, AND IN MUCH THE SAME WAY THEY HOST, UH, THEIR ATTENDANCE TENDS TO BE SIGNIFICANTLY ENLARGED BY THOSE KINDS OF EVENTS IN THEIR CASE, UM, GEN CON UM, AS WELL AS THE ANNUAL EVENT OF THE FFA, THE FORMER FUTURE FARMERS OF AMERICA.

OKAY.

THAT'S HELPFUL.

UM, AND THEN ANOTHER KIND OF NATIONAL QUESTION, AND THEN ONE AUSTIN QUESTIONS SPECIFIC, BUT CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO ME, W W I'M SURE THERE'S A GOOD REASON BEHIND THIS, BUT WHY IS THERE SUCH A FOCUS ON ROOM NIGHTS AS OPPOSED TO OTHER, UM, TYPES OF ECONOMIC IMPACT? I IMAGINE IT'S A, IT'S A PROXY, AND THEN

[01:10:01]

I IMAGINE IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH HOTEL TAX AS WELL.

NO, NO, LET ME, CAN I INTERRUPT YOU AND TRY TO ANSWER THAT FIRST? SURE.

WELL, AGAIN, THE PRINCIPLE DISTINCTION HERE, YOU KNOW, WE, WE TALK ABOUT ATTENDANCE APP CONVENTIONS, BUT AS I THINK YOU WILL KNOW FROM THAT INDIVIDUAL EVENT DATA FOR AUSTIN, UH, ATTENDANCE CAN TAKE A VARIETY OF FORMS. UH, ATTENDEES AT A GIVEN EVENT CAN BE LOCALS.

THEY CAN BE DRIVE IN ATTENDEES SO-CALLED DAYTRIPPERS.

AND WE SEE SOME PARTICULAR CENTERS, THE JAVITS CENTER IN NEW YORK CITY, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT TENDS TO ATTRACT, TENDS TO HAVE AN EVENT BASE THAT THAT IS DOMINATED BY DAY TRIPPERS BY LOCALS.

UM, SO THE ROOM NIGHT NUMBER, WHICH IS GENERALLY PRODUCED BY THE LOCAL CONVENTION OR VISITOR BUREAU VISIT AUSTIN IN YOUR CASE, UH, IS, IS A FIGURE THAT HOTEL ROOM USE THAT IS A MORE EFFECTIVE METRIC OF, OUT OF TOWN VISITORS RATHER THAN LOCALS.

OKAY.

YEP.

AND, AND IT SEEMS LIKE THAT MAY BE MISSING A PORTION OF THE ECONOMIC IMPACT WHEN YOU LOOK AT RESTAURANTS PARKING ENTERTAINING.

NO, NO, YEAH, BUT AGAIN, AGAIN, LOCALS, AREN'T GOING TO BE EATING THREE MEALS A DAY IN THE, IN OR IN THE VICINITY OF YOUR CONVENTION CENTER.

LOCALS MAY BE PARKING, BUT THEY MAY ALSO BE PARKING FOR SOMETHING ELSE.

I MEAN, THEY MAY BE, THEY MAY SIMPLY HAVE WALKED FROM THEIR PLACE OF EMPLOYMENT, FOR EXAMPLE.

NO, THAT MAKES SENSE.

UM, YOU KNOW, SO IT'S, IS IT, DOES IT TAPPING ALL THE DIMENSIONS OF AN OUT OF TOWN VISITOR SPENDING? NO.

NO, NOT, NOT AT ALL, BUT IT'S, IT'S TAPPING OUT OF TOWN VISITATION IS THE CRUCIAL, THE CRUCIAL IDEA HERE.

OKAY.

THAT MAKES SENSE.

AND I WONDER IF THERE'S ALSO ALTERNATIVES TO HOTELS, AIRBNB, AND THE SUCH THAT MAY BE MISSING THERE, BUT, UM, AND IT'S, IT GETS A BIT MORE COMPLEX, BUT IN GENERAL, AND, AND FOLKS IN THE INDUSTRY ARGUE THAT FOLKS, AHEM, BOOK OUTSIDE THE BLOCK THAT IS, THEY STAY IN HOTELS THAT DO THAT ARE NOT PART OF THE EVENT ROOM BLOCK.

YEP.

AND THAT HAPPENS TO SOME DEGREE.

AND THERE IS SOME EVIDENCE THAT IF IT HAS HAPPENED MORE OF LATE, AND CLEARLY THERE IS A PHENOMENON WITH AIRBNB, BUT, BUT YOU KNOW, PART OF THE ISSUE WITH RESPECT TO OUT OF TOWN VISITORS, IT'S DIFFICULT TO GET A HANDLE ON THE AIRBNB PHENOMENON.

UH, BUT IT'S, IT'S ALSO THE CASE THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU MAY FIND A HOTEL IN AUSTIN FOR SOUTH BY SOUTHWEST FOR MOMENTARY CONNECTION ISSUE.

DID WE GET ALL YOUR QUESTIONS COVERED? I HAD ONE MORE, BUT IT'S FOR PROFESSOR.

WE'VE LOST YOU FOR THE MOMENT.

HOLD ON.

OH, WITH I'M SORRY.

I CAN'T DO MUCH ABOUT THAT.

NO.

UM, LET'S SEE IF WE HAVE ANY COMMISSIONERS WHO ARE ONLINE, WHO MIGHT HAVE A QUESTION, IS THERE ANYBODY OUT THERE SINCE WE'RE DOING A HYBRID MEETING TONIGHT, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT Y'ALL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO CHIME IN.

I'M NOT HEARING ANYBODY.

UH, I DO HAVE ONE QUESTION FOR YOU AND IF I'VE MISSED SOMEBODY, PLEASE LET ME KNOW.

UM, YOU HAD MENTIONED THE 1997, UH, STUDY THAT WAS DONE, AND THEN REFERENCED THAT WE WERE LOSING SOME OF THESE COMPONENT CONVENTIONS BECAUSE OF A LACK OF LARGE HOTELS AND A LACK OF MEETING SPACE.

AND SINCE THAT, SINCE 1997, AUSTIN HAS HAD A SIGNIFICANT GROWTH IN THE HOSPITALITY INDUSTRY AMONG OTHER HOTELS DOWNTOWN, WE'VE ADDED THE HILTON, WE'VE ADDED THE FAIRMONT, WE'VE ADDED THE MARRIOTT AND THOSE HAVE AN EXCESS OF, I BELIEVE, 200,000 SQUARE FEET OF A CONVENTION

[01:15:01]

CONFERENCE, MEETING SPACE.

HAVE YOU LOOKED AT THE INTERPLAY BETWEEN THE CITIES, UH, CONVENTION CENTERS AND THESE LARGE CONVENTION HOTELS? UH, AND IS THERE, IS THERE ANY CHANCE THAT AT SOME POINT THEY EITHER COMPETE WITH, OR FEED OFF OF EACH OTHER? DO THEY CANNIBALIZE? YEAH, LET ME, LET ME ANSWER THAT IN A COUPLE OF WAYS.

UM, THERE ARE A GREAT MANY MEETING EVENTS, UH, MY OWN URBAN AFFAIRS ASSOCIATION, FOR EXAMPLE, UH, WHOSE ANNUAL ANNUAL EVENT DOESN'T USE A CONVENTION CENTER.

WE DON'T, WE REQUIRE MEETING ROOMS, BREAKOUT ROOMS OF ALL ROOM, BUT WE DON'T HAVE THE EXHIBIT SPACE NEEDS THAT A CONVENTION CENTER PASO.

WE ARE.

WHAT IS TERMED AN IN-HOUSE GROUP MEETING FOR A HOTEL? PARDON ME? SANDERS.

THIS IS CITY HALL AB UH, WOULD YOU MIND, UM, MAYBE TAKING DOWN YOUR SLIDE SO WE CAN SEE ALL THE TIME? OH, I'M SORRY.

ABSOLUTELY.

I APOLOGIZE.

SO LET ME HIT STOP SHARING.

THANK YOU.

YOU'RE VERY WELCOME.

IS THAT TAKE CARE OF YOU? THAT'S PERFECT.

THANKS.

OKAY.

SO THERE ARE A GREAT MANY GREAT MANY MEETINGS THAT DON'T REQUIRE THE EXHIBIT SPACE OR BREAKOUT OR MEETING ROOM SCALE OF A CONVENTION CENTER, AND THEY WILL BE ACCOMMODATED IN A HOTEL.

UM, AND, AND, AND HOTELS ROUTINELY SEEK TO GET THOSE GROUPS BECAUSE THEY'RE ALSO GOING TO BE FILLING THEIR HOTEL ROOMS. NOW, IN THE CASE THAT YOU REFERENCED IN THE JOHNSON REPORT, UH, THE JOHNSON REPORT SAID THERE WERE INSUFFICIENT LARGE HOTELS, AND THAT WAS THE PREDICATE FOR THE, THE DEVELOPMENT AND THE PUBLIC FINANCING OF THE AUSTIN HILTON UNDER THE AUSPICES OF AUSTIN CONVENTION ENTERPRISES INCORPORATED.

UH, THE ARGUMENT WAS MADE THAT, UH, THE CITY, AN ADJACENT HEADQUARTERS HOTEL AT THAT JUNCTURE IN THE LATE NINETIES, THERE WAS NO PRIVATE DEVELOPER INTERESTED IN BUILDING A SUFFICIENTLY LARGE HEADQUARTERS HOTEL.

AS I RECALL OFFHAND, THEY HILTON HAS CIRCA 800 ROOMS IN ADDITION TO THE CONDOS ON TOP.

UH, AND SO THE CITY UNDERTOOK THE FINANCING AND DEVELOPMENT OF THAT HOTEL ITSELF, UH, WITH ITS COST PAID BY A BOND ISSUE.

SO, YOU KNOW, THAT ISSUE THAT JOHNSON IDENTIFIED WAS RESOLVED THAT WAY.

UH, AND AUSTIN'S EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN REPLICATED IN A VERY LARGE NUMBER OF OTHER CITIES, PARTICULARLY IN TEXAS, WHERE CONSULTANTS HAVE SAID, WHAT YOU NEED IS A LARGE HEADQUARTERS HOTEL NEXT DOOR, AND FAILING TO FIND A PRIVATE DEVELOPER.

THOSE CITIES HAVE FINANCED THE HOTELS THEMSELVES PUBLICLY, OH, US.

UM, DALLAS HAS A THOUSAND ROOM OMNI BRANDED HOTEL THAT IS PUBLICLY OWNED AND FINANCE.

UH, THERE'S A SIMILAR 1200 ROOM HOTEL IN HOUSTON, THE HILTON AMERICAS HERE IN SAN ANTONIO.

WE HAVE A PUBLICLY OWNED AND FINANCED HOTEL, THE GRAND HYATT.

UM, THERE, THERE ARE A WIDE VARIETY OF, OF THOSE.

AND THEN IMPLICITLY, THOSE HOTELS WILL TRY AND GET IN-HOUSE ROUTE MEETING BUSINESS.

IN ADDITION TO SUPPLYING HOTEL ROOMS FOR CONVENTION CENTER EVENTS.

UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S NOTABLE IN YOUR CASE WITH, UH, WITH, WITH THE FAIRMONT, THE RECENT FAIRMONT AND MARRIOTT DEVELOPMENTS IS THAT, UH, YOU NOW HAVE AN ABUNDANCE OF LARGE HEADQUARTERS HOTELS THAT HAVE A PARTICULAR INTEREST IN GETTING MORE MEETING BUSINESS, PARTICULARLY THROUGH THE CONVENTION CENTER, BUT THAT, THAT PHENOMENON OF CENTERS COMPETING BY PROMOTING WERE, WERE THERE PUBLIC SECTOR OWNERS, DEVELOPING HOTELS HAS BECOME REALLY QUITE COMMON ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

UH, IN FACT, ATLANTA JUST WENT TO THE BOND MARKET A FEW MONTHS AGO, UH, TO FINANCE THE DEVELOPMENT OF A NEW SIGNIA BY HILTON HOTEL WITH JUST UNDER A THOUSAND ROOMS. SO THAT'S YET ANOTHER COMPETITIVE DIMENSION.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

UM, NOW, UH, NOW THAT I CAN SEE EVERYBODY, IS THERE ANYBODY

[01:20:01]

ONLINE THAT HAS A QUESTION.

OKAY.

I'M NOT SEEING ANY YET.

WELL, LET ME JUST, OH, LET ME CHECK COMMISSIONER HUBSTAFF.

YEAH.

PROFESSOR SANDERS, THANK YOU FOR THE BREADTH OF YOUR PRESENTATION.

AND OBVIOUSLY THOSE OF US WHO ARE NOT AS WELL VERSED IN ALL OF THESE DETAILS, UM, WHEN IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO, AS I UNDERSTAND IT IS A QUESTION OF POLICY NOW THROUGHOUT YOUR CAREER, YOU HAVE STUDIED AND CLEARLY HAVE SHOWN US FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, THE, UM, THE DOWNSIDE, IF YOU WILL, OR, OR, UH, MADE A NEGATIVE, UH, UH, PRESENTATION TO WHAT ESSENTIALLY OUR POLICY CROSSROADS THAT VARIOUS ENTITIES COME TO.

UH, BUT I, I GUESS I WANT TO JUST THINK THROUGH THIS A LITTLE BIT MORE WITH YOU IN THAT YOU ALSO ARE AT THE SAME TIME, ACKNOWLEDGING THAT SOME OF THESE LARGER CITIES ARE IN FACT QUEUING UP AND WILL BE EXPANDING AND INVESTING IN THEIR CONVENTION CENTERS.

UM, THE PAST ONLY GIVES US SOME AMOUNT OF GUIDANCE, BUT YOU'RE ALSO SHOWING US WHERE CURRENT TRENDS ARE, BUT IS, IS THIS A MATTER OF AUSTIN DECIDING THAT FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE IT'S CONVENTION, INVESTMENT IS SUFFICIENT, AND WE SHOULD ASSUME THAT IT WAS GOING TO CONTINUE TO SERVE THE CITY AND ITS NEEDS WITHOUT FURTHER MA MAJOR RE REPROGRAMMING.

UH, AND THESE OTHER COMPETITORS IN THE, IN THIS LARGE MARKET WORLD WILL CONTINUE AND THEY'LL BE BEAT ON EACH OTHER, BUT THAT'S A DIFFERENT MARKET AND WE DON'T NEED TO BE PART OF IT, OR WHAT IS THE CONSEQUENCES IF WE MISS THAT, AND THERE IS A BIG MARKET AND THESE OTHER CITIES ARE COMPETING AND WE'RE NOT PART OF THIS.

AND, AND I, I BRING THIS MORE AS AN ACADEMIC TYPE QUESTION BECAUSE I HAVE NO DOG IN THIS HUNT.

AND I'M JUST TRYING TO PIECE TOGETHER WHAT THIS POLICY CRITICAL POLICY POINT IS FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, IS IT, IS IT THAT WE COULD DECIDE TO PLAY THIS GAME IT'S EXPENSIVE AND RISKY? OR WE COULD JUST SAY, WE DON'T NEED TO, BECAUSE WHERE WE, WHERE WE ARE IS ACTUALLY QUITE, QUITE SUFFICIENT AND WE'RE DOING QUITE WELL.

THANK YOU.

THERE'S, THERE'S SOME, THERE'S SOME VARIATION OF THEM IN YOUR MESSAGE.

I'M TRYING TO GET, LET ME TRY AND ANSWER THAT COMMISSIONER.

I'M NOT TELLING YOU WHAT TO DO.

YOU KNOW, I, I TRY AND I TRIED TO INDICATE, AND I, I DO TO JOURNALISTS WHENEVER THEY CONTACT ME, YOU KNOW, I TRY TO SHARE DATA WITH FOLKS.

I TRY TO DISTINGUISH THAT DATA, WHETHER IT'S A LOOK BACKWARDS, PREVIOUS CONSULTANT REPORTS, OR A LOOK ACROSS AT OTHER CITIES OR A LOOK AT INDIVIDUAL EVENTS, I TRY AND DISTINGUISH THAT DATA FROM MY OWN CONCLUSIONS OR POTENTIAL POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS.

IF YOU'RE ASKING ME ABOUT POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS, THEN I'M, I'M GLAD TO THOSE, BUT LET ME DO THAT IN A CONTEXT.

OKAY.

OKAY.

SURE.

AND I THINK THE APPROPRIATE CONTEXT IS TO ASK, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE SET BEFORE YOU, WHEN I'VE LOOKED AT PREVIOUS ACC STAFF PRESENTATIONS TO THE DOWNTOWN COMMISSION, FOR EXAMPLE, I'VE SEEN A, A REPEATED GRAPHIC OF THE TIMELINE WITH LOTS OF REPORTS AND LOTS OF STUDIES,