Jun 21, 2022 Resource Management

UH, WE'RE GONNA GO AHEAD AND GET STARTED.

THEY NOW, CAN YOU CONFIRM, YOU CAN HEAR ME ALL RIGHT.

PERFECT.

UH, GO AHEAD AND CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER IT IS TUESDAY, JUNE 21ST AT 6:07 PM.

UH, FIRST THING WE'RE GOING TO DO IS HAVE A ROLL CALL VOTE.

UH, PLEASE TURN THE CAMERAS ON COMMISSIONERS.

UH, WE'LL GO STRAIGHT DOWN THE LIST.

MR. BLACKBURN IS HERE.

COMMISSIONER WHITE.

I'M HERE PRESENT MR. DAVIS.

HERE IS PRESENT IN THE ROOM.

THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER AND GORY, MR. JOHNSON.

UH, MR. ROBBINS IS HERE IN THE ROOM.

MR. STONE PRESENT IS HERE IN THE ROOM, CHRIS, YOUR HARMON I'M HERE.

THANK YOU COMMISSIONER BRENDA, MAN.

IT'S NOT HERE.

COMMISSIONER CHEVERIA IS NOT HERE.

ITEM NUMBER ONE, PROOF MINUTES OF THE MAY 17TH, 2022 MEETING OF THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION.

UH, LET'S GO AHEAD AND AGAIN, UH, CITIZEN COMMUNICATION.

NATASHA, DO WE HAVE ANYONE? ALL RIGHT, SO NO CITIZEN COMMUNICATION TONIGHT.

SO WE'LL MOVE ON TO

[1. Approve minutes of the May 17, 2022 Meeting of the Resource Management Commission.]

UH, DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY CHANGES OR CORRECTIONS TO THE MINUTES AS PRESENTED, UH, PREVIOUSLY BY NATASHA HEARING? NONE, THE MINUTES ARE APPROVED.

WE WILL MOVE ON TO ITEM

[2. Austin Energy Green Building Presentation.]

NUMBER TWO, AUSTIN ENERGY GREEN BUILDING PRESENTATION, AND I BELIEVE KURT IS HERE.

UM, SO I'LL JUST ASK YOU TO ADVANCE.

BEAUTIFUL, GOOD EVENING.

I'M CURTIS DOGVILLE I'M MANAGER FOR GREEN BUILDING AND SUSTAINABILITY FOR AUSTIN ENERGY.

I'M ALSO JOINED BY, CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW? THANK YOU.

LET ME START OVER AGAIN.

UH, GOOD EVENING.

I'M CURTIS DOGVILLE I'M MANAGER FOR GREEN BUILDING AND SUSTAINABILITY FOR AUSTIN ENERGY.

I'M ALSO JOINED BY HEIDI CASPER.

SHE'S OUR RESIDENTIAL MANAGER.

SHE'S HERE TO ASK ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE THAT I CAN'T ANSWER.

AND I THINK I'M ALSO JOINED REMOTELY BY SARAH TALKINGTON, WHO WAS ON VACATION.

AND SARAH, IF YOU CAN HEAR ME PLEASE LEAVE AND GO ON VACATION.

THAT ABSOLUTELY ENJOY.

AT CONSIDERING RECOMMENDATIONS TO COME FORWARD OUT OF THIS GROUP.

UH, SO HERE THIS EVENING, UH, THE RMC PASSED, UH, UH, DEVELOPMENT OF A WORKING GROUP DEDICATED TO LOOKING INTO TOXIC MATERIALS AND MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS BASED UPON TOXIC MATERIALS.

AND THEY'RE GOING TO BRING FORWARD TO THE COLLECTIVE RMC, A SERIES OF POTENTIAL RECOMMENDATIONS FOR CONSIDERATION.

AND I UNDERSTAND THAT.

COULD YOU MUTE YOURSELF? CAN YOU PLEASE MUTE YOURSELF PLEASE? HEY, COMMISSIONER.

BRENNAMAN COULD YOU PUT YOURSELF ON MUTE NEXT? SO UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE LOOKING

[00:05:01]

UH, WE NEED TO PROVIDE YOU WITH SOME INFORMATION THAT YOU CAN CONSIDER AND TO HELP YOU WITH THOSE, WITH THOSE CONSIDERATIONS, INCLUDING INFORMATION ABOUT OUR RATINGS PROGRAM, UH, THINGS THAT INFLUENCE, UH, THE DECISIONS WE MAKE AND CONSIDERATIONS THAT WE WEIGH AS WE MAKE PROGRAMMATIC DECISIONS, AS WELL AS SOME TIMELINE CONSIDERATIONS.

SO THIS SAME PRESENTATION THAT WAS BEING DELIVERED TONIGHT WAS DELIVERED TO THE WORKING GROUP AS THEIR KICKOFF, UH, TO START THAT OFF.

SO, UH, WITH THAT NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.

SO WE HAVE A NUMBER OF PROGRAM DRIVERS FOR WHAT WE DO.

UH, WE'VE GOT THE AUSTIN RESOURCE PLAN GENERATION RESOURCE PLAN THAT DICTATES A LOT OF OUR DECISIONS FROM AN ENERGY PERSPECTIVE, UH, DRIVEN HEAVILY BY THE CLIMATE EQUITY PLAN.

UH, WE ALSO SHARED A ROLE IN DEVELOPMENT OF THE CLIENT OF AN EQUITY PLAN.

WE HAD TEAM MEMBERS THAT WERE, UH, TEAM LEADS ON THE SUSTAINABLE BUILDINGS TEAM AND THE TRANSPORTATION ELECTRIFICATION TEAMS, BOTH IN CONCERT WITH REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE OFFICE OF SUSTAINABILITY, UH, PROJECT CONNECT, UH, WATER, UH, WATER FORWARD AUSTIN RESOURCE RECOVERIES, A ZERO WASTE MASTER PLAN ALL HAVE SIGNIFICANT IMPACTS ON WHAT WE DO OVERALL FROM A PROGRAMMATIC STANDPOINT.

WE'RE ALSO MISSION DRIVEN.

UH, WE'VE GOT AUSTIN ENERGY'S GREEN BUILDINGS MISSION UP HERE.

UH, WHAT WE DO FROM A HEALTH PERSPECTIVE IS, IS A HEAVY DRIVER OF A LOT OF OUR CONSIDERATIONS FROM A PROGRAM PERSPECTIVE.

WHAT I HAVE LISTED HERE IS WHAT WE'VE LOOKED AT TRADITIONALLY.

UH, THESE INDICATORS, OBESITY, CARDIOVASCULAR, CARDIOVASCULAR DISEASE, DIABETES, MENTAL HEALTH, ALL OF THESE ISSUES WERE SPELLED OUT AS SIGNIFICANT COMMUNITY CONCERNS AND HIGHLIGHTED THROUGH IMAGINE AUSTIN AND CONTINUE TO BE HIGHLIGHTED AND TRACKED BOTH BY TRAVIS COUNTY AND THE CITY OF AUSTIN.

SO HEALTHY BUILDINGS.

AND IN PARTICULAR, THESE INDUSTRIES ARE THINGS THAT WE'RE, WE'VE BEEN TRACKING.

UH, AS YOU LOOK AT TOXIC MATERIALS, THEY MAY NOT TOUCH QUITE AS MUCH ON SOME OF THESE AND MAY HAVE SOME OTHER DRIVERS FROM A HEALTH PERSPECTIVE.

SO WE'LL LOOK TO BROADEN THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE AS WE LOOK TO CONSIDER MAKE THOSE CONSIDERATIONS.

CLIMATE IS OBVIOUSLY A BIG DRIVER, NOT JUST CARBON, BUT THE FACT THAT WE LIVE IN A HOT HUMID CLIMATE HAS SIGNIFICANT IMPACTS ON BUILDING DESIGN MOLD IS AN INCREDIBLE POTENTIAL AREA OF TOXICITY THAT WE LOOK TO AVOID.

UH, IT ALSO HAS SPECIAL REQUIREMENTS FROM A VENTILATION PERSPECTIVE, AND YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S NOT JUST THE BUILDING MATERIALS THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT, BUT HOW YOU HANDLE THE AIR THAT'S IN THE BUILDINGS ALSO IMPACTS THE OVERALL ULTIMATE TOXICITY AND EXPOSURE THAT YOU MAY HAVE FROM THOSE MATERIALS.

EQUITY IS A BIG DRIVER OF WHAT WE LOOK AT.

UH, TRADITIONALLY WE'VE LOOKED A LOT AT COSTS AND IN PARTICULAR UPFRONT COSTS A BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE BETTER MEASURES TO LOOK AT.

AND B BECAUSE THE UPFRONT COST WAS OF PARTICULAR INTEREST TO A LOT OF OUR VERY VESTED STAKEHOLDERS.

I THINK THAT WE'LL LOOK, BE ABLE TO LOOK MORE BROADLY AT DRIVERS AROUND EQUITY, AS THE CITY BEGINS TO BETTER DEVELOP THINGS.

THEY'VE ALREADY BEGUN TO DEVELOP THAT.

IN ADDITION, THEY'RE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT THINGS LIKE THE CITY HAS ALREADY BEGUN TO LOOK AT SOCIAL COST OF CARBON.

SO THESE WILL BE THINGS THAT WE'LL BE CONSIDERING MOVING FORWARD.

BUILDING CODES OBVIOUSLY IMPACT WHAT WE DO, AND THEN JUST GENERICALLY TRENDS, BUILDING INDUSTRY TRENDS, SOCIAL TRENDS, REGULATORY TRENDS, ALL IMPACT THE DECISIONS THAT WE MAKE AND WEIGH IN ON THE PRIORITIES THAT WE DECIDE TO, TO EMPHASIZE WITHIN OUR RATINGS.

OPPORTUNITY FOR THE COMMUNITY TO VET PROCESSES AND PRACTICES THAT ULTIMATELY ARE GOING TO BE SEEN IN CODE AND HELP US WORK THROUGH SOME OF THOSE ISSUES AND CHALLENGES.

SO I'D LIKE TO SPEAK A LITTLE BIT TO THE PURPOSE OF GOALS OF OUR RATINGS, AND WE'RE REALLY LOOKING TO ADVANCE THE COMMUNITY'S UNDERSTANDING AND APPLICATION OF SUSTAINABILITY PRACTICES.

UH, THE BETTER EDUCATED OUR COMMUNITY IS PARTICULARLY OUR DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION COMMUNITY IS IN THESE SUSTAINABILITY PRACTICES.

THE BETTER ABLE THEY ARE TO UNDERSTAND A, THE IMPACTS ON THEIR BUSINESS IN, IN IMPLEMENTING THEM AS WELL AS ULTIMATELY THE IMPACTS ON THE BUILDINGS THEMSELVES AND THE TENANTS, ULTIMATELY THE TENANTS THAT LIVE IN THEM.

UH, WE ALSO LOOK AT OUR RATINGS TO POSITION NEW PRINCIPLES FOR CONSIDERATION AND CONCEPTS TO BE ADOPTED AS STANDARD PRACTICES, EITHER THROUGH BEST PRACTICES OR POTENTIALLY ULTIMATELY IT CODES.

SO WE REALLY LOOK AT OUR RATINGS AS KIND OF A, AN INTRODUCTORY

[00:10:01]

SO IF WE SEE CHALLENGES, WE CAN HELP THROUGH THE CODE ADOPTION OR CODE DESIGN PROCESS AND LOCAL AMENDMENTS TO HELP OFFSET POTENTIAL CHALLENGES THAT WE MAY HAVE ENCOUNTERED.

AS WE EXPLORED SOME OF THESE PRACTICES BEFORE THEY BECAME CODIFIED.

WE ALSO LOOK TO BE BALANCED IN WHAT WE OFFER AS A TOTAL OFFERING FOR OUR, THROUGH OUR RATINGS.

WE LOOK TO ENCOMPASS THE ENTIRE SPECTRUM OF SUSTAINABILITY.

WE DON'T LOOK TO BE TOO HEAVY HANDED IN WHAT WE PRESCRIBE OR WHAT WE DIRECT FOLKS TO DO THROUGH THE RATINGS.

EVERYBODY HAS DIFFERENT OBJECTIVES.

EVERYBODY HAS DIFFERENT GOALS AROUND WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING TO ACHIEVE.

UH, WE DON'T WANT TO BE TOO HEAVY HANDED IN WHAT WE DO FROM A RATINGS PERSPECTIVE.

AND I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT HERE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT OUR RATINGS ARE NOT AS WELL AS WHAT THEY ARE.

AND I KNOW THAT THERE WAS AN, UH, DESIRE EXPRESSED TO BE IMPACTFUL WITH WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH TOXIC MATERIALS, BUT WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT TOO HEAVY HANDED.

THERE IS THE POTENTIAL TO HAVE NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES.

IF WE ARE TOO HEAVY HANDED WITH OUR RATINGS PRODUCT, UH, YOU KNOW, WE COULD HAVE, YOU KNOW, DECREASES IN, IN, UH, PROGRAM PARTICIPATION.

WE COULD EVEN POTENTIALLY SEE LEGISLATIVE AND POLITICAL FALLOUT.

UH, SO WE HAVE BEEN VERY CAREFUL TO WORK PROACTIVELY WITH OUR PROGRAM PARTICIPANTS AND STAKEHOLDERS, TO BRING THEM ALONG, TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE COMFORTABLE WITH WHAT WE'RE DOING AND THAT THEY'RE IN SUPPORT OF WHAT WE'RE DOING AND TO GET THEIR BUY-IN.

UH, OBVIOUSLY WE WANT TO CONTINUE TO PUSH THE ENVELOPE, BUT WE DON'T WANT TO ALIENATE OUR PARTICIPANTS.

SO, UH, IT, IT IS VERY MUCH A PARTNERSHIP AND A COLLABORATION PROCESS WITH OUR STAKEHOLDERS NEXT GOAL, OR THE NEXT SLIDE.

SO SPECIFIC TO OUR RATINGS, WE'VE GOT THREE AREAS THAT WE LOOK TO ADDRESS.

UH, WE'VE GOT A RESIDENTIAL WHICH LOOKS AT, UH, CUSTOM AND, AND PRODUCTION HOMES.

UH, RESIDENTIAL ALSO TOUCHES ON MULTI-FAMILY THERE'S, UH, AN ERROR IN THIS SLIDE.

IT'S ACTUALLY, UH, BELOW EIGHT STORIES IS CONSIDERED RESIDENTIAL FROM OUR, FOR OUR PROGRAMS. AND THEN FOR OUR COMMERCIAL CONSTRUCTION, OUR COMMERCIAL GROUP TOUCHES NOT ONLY ON COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES, BUT ALSO ON HIGH-RISE RESIDENTIAL.

SO ANYTHING, EIGHT STORIES AND ABOVE IS CONSIDERED A COMMERCIAL RESIDENTIAL FOR US.

ANY NEGATIVE OR MITIGATE ANY NEGATIVE IMPACTS, UH, PVCS AND .

SO WANT TO GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF A BACKGROUND ON OUR RATINGS AND HOW WE LOOK TO, TO WEIGHT THINGS.

UH, THIS IS, UH, UH, REALLY A VIEW OF OUR RESIDENTIAL PROGRAM THAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE TONIGHT.

THERE ARE SOME SUBTLE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN OUR RESIDENTIAL AND OUR COMMERCIAL PROGRAM.

THIS WILL GIVE YOU A PRETTY GOOD IDEA OF BOTH, BUT THIS IS SPECIFIC JUST TO RESIDENTIAL THIS EVENING.

UH, SO WE'VE GOT A TIERED RATING SYSTEM, HIGHER LEVELS OF ACHIEVEMENT, MORE STARS, IT'S ONE TO FIVE STARS.

UH, SO FOR A ONE-STAR BUILDING, WE HAVE A SERIES OF BASIC REQUIREMENTS.

ONE OF THE BASIC REQUIREMENTS IS THEY HAVE TO MEET CODE.

WELL, THERE ARE AREAS WHERE WE CAN DO A BETTER JOB OF, OF CODE ENFORCEMENT, THINGS LIKE ENERGY CODE, SOME OF THE MECHANICAL CODE, THINGS THAT ARE IMPORTANT FROM A SUSTAINABILITY PERSPECTIVE, WE MAKE SURE THEY GET LOOKED AT INTENTIONALLY THROUGH OUR REVIEW PROCESS.

SO IF WE FIND THINGS THAT AREN'T, UH, CONSISTENT WITH WITH CODE, WE'RE NOT GOING TO MOVE THEM FORWARD.

SO BIG, BIG REQUIREMENT THERE.

UH, AS YOU MOVE UP TO TWO STARS, THEN YOU HAVE STILL HAVE TO MEET THE BASIC REQUIREMENTS FOR A ONE-STAR BUILDING, AND THEN YOU HAVE SOME ADDITIONAL, UH, TWO-STAR BASIC REQUIREMENTS.

AND THEN YOU HAVE A SERIES OF POINTS THAT YOU'RE ELIGIBLE TO RECEIVE, AND IT KIND OF BUILDS CUMULATIVELY.

THE HIGHER UP YOU GO FROM A STORAGE PERSPECTIVE, THE MORE REQUIREMENTS, AND THE MORE POINTS YOU NEED TO RECEIVE.

NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.

SO YOU'D ASK US WHERE WE WERE.

WE'RE LOOKING AT TOXIC MATERIALS IN THE RATINGS, AND WE ARE LOOKING AT TOXIC MATERIALS IN A NUMBER OF AREAS WITHIN THE RATINGS ALREADY.

UH, A LOT OF ATTENTION, AGAIN, TO THIS IDEA OF WHAT WE'RE DOING FROM A VENTILATION PERSPECTIVE.

IF YOU HAVE BAD AIR AND YOU MOVE THAT BAD AIR OUT, YOU CERTAINLY ARE, ARE MITIGATING THE EXPOSURE, POTENTIAL, UH, EDUCATION, THE HOME MANUAL, REALLY TO THAT, THE BETTER WE CAN EDUCATE FOLKS AS TO WHAT'S GOING INTO THEIR HOMES OR WHAT IS LIKELY TO BE GOING INTO THEIR HOMES.

THEY CAN INFLUENCE THAT AND UNDERSTAND HOW TO IMPACT

[00:15:01]

THESE ARE MATERIALS THAT WE SPECIFICALLY, UH, ADDRESS THROUGH POINTS.

AND WE ALSO HAVE AN INNOVATION INNOVATION CREDITS WHERE IF THEY BRING IN IDEAS THAT AREN'T SPECIFICALLY OUTLINED WITHIN OUR RATINGS, THEY CAN POTENTIALLY GET CREDIT FOR THOSE IDEAS.

AND CERTAINLY TOXIC MATERIALS WILL CALL A FIRE FOR THAT NEXT SLIDE.

SO THE NEXT TWO SLIDES ARE A LISTING OF THE CATEGORIES OF SUSTAINABILITY MEASURES AND POINTS THAT THEY, THAT OUR PARTICIPANTS CAN GET IN THEIR RATINGS.

YOU GO OVER TO THE NEXT COLUMN, YOU'VE GOT SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS, AND THEN YOU'VE GOT THE POTENTIAL POINTS, RANGE OF POINTS THAT THEY CAN GET TO MEET THOSE REQUIREMENTS.

AND THEN ON THE FAR RIGHT, I'VE TALKED ABOUT HOW IT MAY BE RELEVANT TO TOXIC BUILDING MATERIALS THEMSELVES.

AND THEN I'VE GOT DOWN HERE IN THE BOTTOM, RIGHT, AGAIN, JUST FOR REFERENCE AN IDEA OF THE TOTAL NUMBER OF STARS REQUIRED FOR THE DIFFERENT RATINGS LEVELS.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE FIRST PAGE, THERE'S NOT A LOT THERE, UH, SPECIFIC TO TOXIC MATERIALS SPECIFICALLY, BUT THEY DO GET POTENTIALLY CREDIT FOR EXPANDED HOMEOWNER EDUCATION.

UH, THERE IT'S A LIST OF THE MATERIALS THAT ARE INCLUDED, UH, ANY, ANY KIND OF PESTICIDE TREATMENTS THAT ARE, THAT ARE GIVEN.

THOSE ARE DISCLOSED THERE.

AS WE MOVE TO THE SECOND GROUP, THOUGH, YOU GOT A LOT MORE POTENTIAL AREAS WHERE TOXIC MATERIALS COULD BE ADDRESSED.

IF YOU MOVED DOWN TO MATERIALS AND RESOURCES, THE SECOND ONE SPEAKS TO DURABLE FINISHED FLOORS THAT CAN GET TWO TO FOUR POINTS FOR NO VINYL FLOORING OR VINYL COMPOSITE TILES.

IF YOU LOOK AT PEST CONTROL, UH, IT SPEAKS TO A BORE EIGHT TREATMENT OR A TERMITE BARRIERS.

THESE ARE LOWER IMPACT MITIGATION STRATEGIES FOR, FOR, FOR PEST CONTROL ON THE PVCS AND ALLIED SIDE SIDE OF THINGS YOU CAN GET FROM ONE TO FIVE POINTS THAT INCLUDES PVC FREE WIRING, UH, SUPPLY SIDE PVC BEING, OR A SUPPLY SIDE, UH, WATER BEING PVC FREE.

UH, WE'VE LOOKED AT SUPPLY SIDE SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE THAT'S THE WATER YOU'RE GOING TO BE DRINKING.

UH, ALSO LOOKING AT, UH, UH, WINDOWS AND, AND, UH, AND FLOORS THERE.

UH, IF YOU GO DOWN TO IMPROVED AIR QUALITY, WE SPEAK AGAIN A LOT TO VENTILATION AC FILTRATION, UH, AND THEN YOU'VE GOT INNOVATION POINTS.

IF YOU LOOK AT ALL OF THIS COLLECTIVELY, THERE'S A POTENTIAL FOR UP TO 36 POINTS THAT HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED, UH, IN THE AREAS OF, OF SPECIFIC TO TOXIC MATERIALS THAT ARE IN OUR CURRENT RATINGS.

SO WE DO PAY SPECIFIC AND SIGNIFICANT ATTENTION TO TOXIC MATERIALS IN OUR CURRENT RATINGS.

BUT OBVIOUSLY YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE OTHER THINGS THAT WE CAN DO.

WE ALSO PROVIDE CREDIT FOR OTHER RATINGS AND OTHER CERTIFICATIONS THAT ARE NOT SPECIFICALLY SPELLED OUT IN AN AGB, UH, IN PARTICULAR LEAD AND WELL, OR A COUPLE OF THEM.

WE LOOK AT NEXT SLIDE, MEANING THAT IF A LEADER, WELL, SPELT SPELLS OUT CREDIT FOR TOXIC MATERIALS, YOU CAN APPLY AND GET CREDIT FOR THEM WITHIN OUR RATINGS AS WELL.

IF YOU LOOK AT TRENDS RELATED TO RATINGS ADMINISTRATION, UH, THERE WAS A LOT OF TALK ABOUT WHERE OUR PROGRAM WAS WHEN IT WAS INITIATED BACK IN 19 92 93, UH, THERE WAS A LOT MORE ART THAN SCIENCE APPLIED TO GREEN BUILDING AND SUSTAINABILITY BACK IN 1992, THERE HAS BEEN A SIGNIFICANT MIGRATION TO A MUCH MORE HIGHLY TECHNICAL SCIENTIFIC BASE DATA-BASED APPROACH, ANALYTICAL APPROACH TO SUSTAINABILITY, AND AS SUCH, OUR STAFFING NEEDS HAVE CHANGED.

AND WE HAVE A LOT HIGHER DEGREE OF TECHNICAL APTITUDE ON OUR STAFF THAN WE DID.

UH, BACK IN 1992, WE ALSO LOOK TO ADDRESS WHAT'S TIMELY IN OUR RATINGS.

UH, EQUITY FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS HAS BEEN AT THE FOREFRONT OF A LOT OF WHAT WE DO.

UH, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, AS WE COME FORWARD WITH FUTURE RATINGS UPDATES, WE'LL AGAIN, LOOK TO ADDRESS WHAT'S TIMELY.

YOU CANNOT ADDRESS EVERYTHING SUSTAINABILITY COMPREHENSIVELY IN YOUR RATINGS, OR YOU'RE GOING TO GET DILUTION SUCH THAT YOU REALLY DON'T IMPACT ANYTHING SIGNIFICANTLY.

WE REALLY WANT TO BE ABLE TO VERIFY WHAT WE'RE DOING IS EFFECTIVE.

UH, AN EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING THAT WAS LESS EFFECTIVE THAN WE ANTICIPATED, WE DON'T REALLY KNOW THE IMPACTS IS THE IDEA OF GETTING OUT OF PAINTS.

WELL, WE WERE ABLE TO GET VOC,

[00:20:01]

FREE PAINT OPTIONS.

WE'RE NOT SURE THAT THE ALTERNATIVES THAT HAVE COME OUT ARE BETTER OR WORSE.

WE REALLY DON'T KNOW.

WE JUST KNOW THAT THEY DON'T SPECIFICALLY HAVE VOC.

IF YOU'VE GOT A MEASURE THAT YOU'VE IMPLEMENTED, THAT YOU REALLY CAN'T VERIFY ITS EFFICACY, IT'S HARD TO SUPPORT FROM A SUSTAINABILITY PERSPECTIVE.

SO WE REALLY WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN MEASURE AND VERIFY THE MEASURES THAT WE'RE TAKING HAVE AN IMPACT, HAVE A POSITIVE IMPACT.

WE WANT TO GET AWAY FROM BEING OVERLY PRESCRIPTIVE.

THE IDEA OF MASSIVE CHECKLISTS OF THINGS.

UH, THERE ARE 80,000 SOMETHING TOXIC MATERIALS OR 80,000 SOME CHEMICALS OUT THERE, UH, TO, TO TRY AND TRACK.

IT GETS TO BE A PRETTY LABORIOUS CHECKLIST.

SO, AND, AND IT ALSO SPEAKS TO THE OVERALL ADMINISTRATIVE LOAD.

WE, WE LOOK TO REDUCE THE ADMINISTRATIVE BURDEN AS MUCH AS WE CAN WITH OUR, WITH OUR RATINGS.

WE USE PREEXISTING CERTIFICATIONS WHERE WE CAN, IF YOU LOOK OVER TO THE RIGHT, YOU'VE GOT UL'S GREENGUARD CERTIFICATION, IT'S A, A TOXIC MATERIALS CERTIFICATION THAT UNDERWRITERS LABORATORIES HAS.

UH, AND BACK AGAIN TO THIS IDEA OF, OF STREAMLINED ADMINISTRATION.

AND YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR MORE ABOUT THIS.

UH, THESE PROGRAMS DO NOT COME WITHOUT A COST TO OUR PARTICIPANTS TO ADMINISTER OR FOR US TO ADMINISTER.

AND ONE OF THE COSTS IS BANDWIDTH.

IF WE SPEND TIME ADMINISTERING THINGS THROUGH OUR, OUR RATINGS PROGRAM, THAT IS TIME THAT WE CAN NOT SPEND PUSHING THE ENVELOPE IN OTHER AREAS, MOVING THINGS FORWARD.

WHOLE SLEW OF LEEDY AND WELL ACCREDITED PROFESSIONALS ON OUR WORK GROUP.

THIS SLIDE SPEAKS AGAIN TO THIS BANDWIDTH ISSUE, UH, IN THE ADMINISTRATIVE BURDEN.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE GRAPH ON THE LEFT, IT SPEAKS TO WORKLOAD THAT WE HAD IN THE CITY OF AUSTIN, UH, FROM A CONSTRUCTION PERSPECTIVE, AUSTIN ENERGY, GREEN BUILDINGS, RATINGS, PROJECT LOAD, AND WORKLOAD IS ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY DRIVEN BY NEW CONSTRUCTION IN AUSTIN.

IN 2015, WHEN I BECAME MANAGER OF THIS PROGRAM, WE HAD APPROXIMATELY 15 MILLION SQUARE FEET OF NEW CONSTRUCTION IN OUR RATINGS PIPELINE BEING ACTIVELY MANAGED BY STAFF BY 2022.

TODAY WE'RE UP TO 35 MILLION SQUARE FEET OF SPACE ACTIVELY BEING MANAGED WITHIN OUR PROJECT PIPELINE.

SO MORE THAN DOUBLE THE PROJECT LOAD THERE.

IN ADDITION, THOSE, THOSE PROJECTS ARE MORE COMPLEX THAN THEY'VE EVER BEEN.

WE ALSO HAVE A RAPID RAPID RATE OF RETURN AS THE INDUSTRY HAS GOTTEN BETTER AT PUTTING UP BUILDINGS AND GETTING THEIR CAPITAL WORKING AND ACTUALLY WORKING FOR THEM ACTIVELY.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE GRAPH ON THE RIGHT, IT SPEAKS TO THE STAFFING LEVELS THAT WE HAVE TO SUPPORT THAT.

AND I POINT THIS OUT, NOT AS AN ASK FOR ADDITIONAL STAFF, THAT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT WHAT THIS IS ABOUT.

OUR STAFFING NEEDS ARE DRIVEN THROUGH OUR BUDGET PROCESS AND ARE LOOKED AT HOLISTICALLY ACROSS THE ENTERPRISE.

I WORK WITH MY BOSS THROUGH ALL OF CUSTOMER ENERGY SOLUTIONS TO IDENTIFY APPROPRIATE STAFFING LEVELS.

THIS IS VERY MUCH THOUGH, TO, TO HELP YOU UNDERSTAND THAT RECOMMENDATIONS THAT YOU HAVE WILL CAUSE US TO LOOK AT PRIORITIES THAT WE HAVE, AND POTENTIALLY HAVE TO, TO JUGGLE THOSE, TO BE ABLE TO TAKE ON ADDITIONAL WORKLOAD.

WE DO NOT HAVE SLACK WITHIN OUR WORK GROUP TO TAKE ON ADDITIONAL WORK.

SOMETHING ELSE IS GOING TO DROP OFF THE TABLE TO THAT END.

NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.

JUST WITHIN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, WE'VE SPENT SUBSTANTIAL TIME LOOKING AT TRYING TO WEED OUT THIS ADMINISTRATIVE BURDEN AND WORKLOAD.

SO WE'VE, WE'VE GOT, UH, AS MUCH SLACK OUT OF THAT AS WE THINK WE CAN, UH, WE'VE SUSPENDED OUR INTEGRATED MODELING PROGRAM AND MOVE SOME RESOURCES OVER TO HELP SUPPORT THAT.

UH, WE'VE CUT OUR EDUCATIONAL SEMINARS DOWN FROM 12 PER YEAR TO SIX PER YEAR, UH, DELAYED SOME PROGRESS ON SOME, SOME NEW WORK THAT WE HAVE NEW PROJECTS THAT WE HAVE AS WELL.

SO, YOU KNOW, JUST UNDERSTAND THAT AS YOU COME FORWARD WITH RECOMMENDATIONS THAT THEY DO COME AT A COST AND, AND W WE'LL BE HAPPY TO TELL YOU WHAT THOSE TRADE OFFS MAY BE, BUT, BUT, BUT THEY WILL COME AT A COST.

NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.

I'D ALSO LIKE TO SPEAK TO STAFF EXPERIENCE, UH, AS YOU COME UP WITH THESE RECOMMENDATIONS, YOU'RE GOING TO BE ASKING US WHAT THE IMPACT IS.

AND WE HAVE SIGNIFICANT STAFF EXPERIENCE.

WE HAVE NEARLY 300 YEARS OF RELEVANT STAFF EXPERIENCE ON HAND, UH, SPEAKING TO THE TECHNICAL, UH, REQUIREMENTS IN NATURE OF OUR WORK.

NOW WE HAVE SIX TEXAS STATE OF TEXAS LICENSED PES, AND A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT ENGINEERING DISCIPLINES ON STAFF.

WE HAVE THREE REGISTERED ARCHITECTS.

WE HAVE A

[00:25:01]

WE EVEN HAVE A MEMBER OF THE INTERNATIONAL CODE COUNCILS CONSENSUS COMMITTEE.

SO SHE'S WORKING ON DEVELOPMENT OF THE RESIDENTIAL ENERGY CODE AT, AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL.

WE HAVE GREAT EXPERTISE TO BRING TO BEAR AND GREAT INFORMATION TO BRING YOU, ASK US, WE'LL TELL YOU WHAT WE THINK, AND WE'LL LET YOU KNOW WHAT WE THINK ON THAT NEXT SLIDE.

AND I TALKED TO HIM ABOUT SOME OF THE INNOVATIVE WORK WE HAVE UNDERWAY, AND WE REALLY ARE STILL PUSHING THE NEEDLE.

AND SOME OF THIS IS, UH, A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE ON OUR PART.

WE HAVE NOT COME TO YOU RECENTLY AND TOLD YOU WHAT WE'RE UP TO.

AND THAT'S A FAILURE ON MY PART.

UH, I THINK ALSO SOME OF THAT AS A RESULT OF THE PANDEMIC AND NONE OF THE BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS WERE OPERATING AT THE SAME LEVEL WITH ALL THE COMMUNICATIONS CHALLENGES THAT THEY HAD, UH, WE WILL BE BRINGING FORWARD MORE INFORMATION ON THESE IN THE COMING MONTHS, BUT JUST AT A HIGH LEVEL.

UH, IF YOU LOOK AT THE AREA OF CARBON, CARBON MITIGATION, YOU REALLY HAVE THREE ELEMENTS OF CARBON THAT REALLY MOVED THE NEEDLE.

YOU'VE GOT ELECTRICITY GENERATION, YOU'VE GOT TRANSPORTATION ELECTRIFICATION.

AND THEN YOU'VE GOT A THIRD, WHICH IS EMBODIED CARBON AND EMBODIED CARBON IS THE CARBON THAT GOES INTO THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE BUILDING, BOTH IN DEVELOPMENT AND, YOU KNOW, MINING PROCESSING OF THE BUILDING MATERIALS THEMSELVES, AS WELL AS THE PHYSICAL CONSTRUCTION OF THE BUILDING.

TWO OUT OF THOSE THREE AREAS IN THAT PUZZLE OR THAT PIE ARE ALREADY BEING ADDRESSED, UH, THROUGH OTHER CITY PLANS, THE CLIMATE EQUITY PLAN, OTHER SUSTAINABILITY PRINCIPLES EMBODIED CARBON HAS ABSOLUTELY NOT BEEN TACKLED YET BY THE SUSTAINABILITY COMMUNITY.

IT'S REALLY KIND OF THE NEXT FRONTIER FROM A CARBON PERSPECTIVE.

THIS IS REALLY WHERE WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING SPECIFIC TO THAT.

WE HIRED AN INTERN TWO YEARS AGO THAT HAD A VERY STRONG CONCRETE BACKGROUND AS AN ENGINEER.

AND WE HAD HIM DO SOME BASELINE WORK, LOOKING AT DEVELOPING A LOW CARBON STANDARD FOR LOCAL CONCRETE MANUFACTURERS.

HE HAS SINCE APPLIED TO BE A GRAD STUDENT AND IS GETTING HIS MASTER'S DEGREE FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF COLORADO.

AND HE'S WORKING UNDER DR.

WEIL SHREW BARR WHO RUNS THE LIVING MATERIALS LAB AT COLORADO UNIVERSITY.

SO HE'S A, A LEADING MATERIAL SCIENCE EXPERT.

WE ARE FUNDING HIS, UH, PARTICIPATION IN, UH, THAT PROGRAM.

AND THEN AS A RESULT, WE ARE PRETTY MUCH EXCLUSIVELY GETTING IN HIS INPUT, HIS OUTPUT FOR THE NEXT TWO YEARS IN DEVELOPING THIS LOW CARBON STANDARD.

WHAT WE PLAN TO DO IS BREAK DOWN DIFFERENT BUILDING MATERIALS BY SEGMENT, LOOKING AT THE HIGHEST CARBON IMPACT SEGMENTS FIRST.

SO WE'RE GOING TO START WITH CONCRETE.

WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT STEEL MOVE FROM THERE AND CONTINUE TO ADDRESS SYSTEMATICALLY THE, THE EMBODIED CARBON ELEMENTS OF NEW CONSTRUCTION, LOOKING TO REDUCE AND DOCUMENT THE LEVELS OF CARBON IN EMBODIED CARBON FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION FOR AUSTIN.

NEXT ONE, I'VE GOT SPEAKS TO GRID OPTIMAL, UH, U S GBC AND LEAD HAD A RATING FOR ELECTRIC UTILITIES FOR SUSTAINABILITY, BUT IT REALLY IGNORED THE ROLE THAT THE BUILDING AND THE BUILT ENVIRONMENT PLAYS IN GRID IMPACTS.

AND WE WENT TO THEM AND SAID, HEY, WE'D REALLY LIKE TO SEE A HOLISTIC APPROACH WHERE WE CAN LOOK AT MEASURES TO DETERMINE LOOKING AT BOTH THE INCUMBENT UTILITY STRUCTURE AND THE BUILDINGS THEMSELVES, AND THE BUILDINGS ABILITY TO INTERACT WITH THE GRID TO RATE THAT BUILDING FOR GRID FRIENDLINESS.

WE WENT OUT AND WE GOT A GRANT $50,000 GRANT FROM THE AMERICAN PUBLIC POWER ASSOCIATION THROUGH WHAT'S CALLED THEIR, THEIR DEED PROGRAM.

UH, IT'S AN R AND D UH, PROGRAM THROUGH APA AND GOT A PART-TIME RESOURCE DEDICATED TO THE NEW BUILDINGS INSTITUTE, WHICH IS PART OF U S GBC.

AND THEY DEVELOPED A NEW STANDARD, A NEW RATING STANDARD FOR GRID FRIENDLINESS.

AND THEY'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO DEVELOP THAT.

AND WE WERE PART OF, OF THE WORK GROUP THAT ESTABLISHED THAT NEW RATING ON THE EQUITY FRONT CONTINUE TO DO A TON OF WORK THERE.

WE'VE WORKED VERY ACTIVELY WITH THE NAACP, WORKED WITH US GREEN BUILDING COUNCIL AND LEAD, CONTINUE TO WORK WITH LOCAL ORGANIZATIONS THERE AS WELL.

AND ON THE TOXIC BUILDING MATERIALS FRONT, WE ALSO HAVE SOME EFFORTS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT THERE.

SPECIFICALLY, WE HAVE MONEY IN THE 23 BUDGET.

SO THE COMING BUDGET, WHICH THIS GROUP ACTIVELY APPROVED, LOOKING AT DEVELOPING A TOOL

[00:30:01]

TO ALLOW A PROJECT TEAM, TO EVALUATE THE CUMULATIVE IMPACTS OF THEIR MATERIALS DECISIONS, TO UNDERSTAND HOW THEIR DECISIONS IMPACT THE, THE HEALTH OF THE BUILDING IN THE BUILD ENVIRONMENT.

IT'S REALLY HARD GETTING BACK TO THIS IDEA THAT YOU'VE GOT 87,000 CHEMICALS OUT THERE TO TRY AND LOOK AT AND UNDERSTAND WHERE THEY'RE BAD FOR YOU, HOW THEY'RE BAD FOR YOU, BUT HOW DO YOU LOOK AT THOSE? YOU KNOW, THERE'S NOT GREAT INFORMATION OUT THERE.

IT'S HARD TO LOOK AT ALL THOSE PIECES INDEPENDENTLY.

WE'RE LOOKING AT DEVELOPING A CALCULATOR, WHICH WILL ALLOW A BUILDING DESIGN TEAM TO UNDERSTAND THE CUMULATIVE IMPACTS OF THEIR MATERIALS DECISIONS SO THAT THEY CAN WEIGH THE COSTS AND BENEFITS AND OPTIMIZE THEIR DECISIONS THAT THEY MAKE BASED OFF OF THIS INFORMATION.

NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

SO WE HAVE SOME OTHER AREAS THAT INFLUENCE WHAT WE DO AND HOW WE CAN DO THINGS, PARTICULARLY FROM A RATINGS PERSPECTIVE, UH, SPOKE EARLIER ABOUT BUILDING CODES.

THAT'S A BIG DRIVER FOR WHAT WE DO.

UH, SO INTERNATIONAL CODE COUNCIL IS THE GROUP THAT'S RESPONSIBLE FOR D FOR DEVELOPING, UH, THE INTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODES.

THEY COME OUT WITH NEW CODES EVERY THREE YEARS.

IT'S A CONSISTENT CYCLE.

UH, THEY PASS LAST CODES IN 21.

THE CITY OF AUSTIN HAS SINCE ADOPTED THOSE CODES.

SO THE 21 CODES BECAME EFFECTIVE IN THE CITY OF AUSTIN.

IN SEPTEMBER OF LAST YEAR, THEY'RE BASICALLY ON A CONSTANT ITERATIVE CYCLE.

I'VE HEARD THAT WITH THE, WITH THE, UH, UH, YELLOW GATE BRIDGE OR THE BRIDGE OVER, UH, SAN FRANCISCO, THAT THEY CONTINUE TO PAINT IT.

AND THAT TEAM JUST TURNS AROUND WHEN THEY FINISH IT.

AND THEY TURNED BACK AROUND AND STARTED ALL OVER AGAIN, SAME THING WITH THE CODES.

UH, ONCE THEY DEVELOP A NEW SET OF CODES, THEY IMMEDIATELY START DEVELOPING THE NEXT SET OF CODES.

SO THEY'RE WORKING CURRENTLY ON WHAT THE 24 CODES LOOK LIKE.

THE CITY ADOPTS THESE NEW CODES, WHENEVER THERE'S SIGNIFICANT CHANGES THAT THEY FEEL NEED TO BE ADOPTED.

BUT WITH THE CAVEAT THAT THEY NOW LOOK TO ADOPT CODES, AT LEAST EVERY TWO CODE CYCLES.

SO EVERY SIX YEARS, THEY'RE GOING TO LOOK TO ADOPT NEW CODES.

A LOT OF THAT HAS TO DO WITH, UH, INSURANCE RATES ARE AFFECTED NEGATIVELY IF THE CITY ISN'T UP-TO-DATE WITH THEIR CODES, UH, WE EXPECT TO KNOW THE BULK OF RECOMMENDATIONS COMING OUT OF THE 24 CODES WITHIN THE NEXT COUPLE OF MONTHS.

WE HAVE A PRETTY GOOD FEEL WITH WHERE WE ARE IN THE COMMERCIAL SIDE.

THERE'S A LITTLE MORE UNCERTAINTY ON THE RESIDENTIAL SIDE.

SO AS SUCH, THAT IMPACTS WHAT WE DO FROM A RATINGS UPDATE PERSPECTIVE.

WE LOOK TO COINCIDE OUR RATINGS UPDATES WITH THE ADOPTION OF THE NEW CODE CYCLE AND BE AS CLOSE AS WE CAN TO THE NEW CODES COMING FORWARD.

UH, BECAUSE AGAIN, WE LOOK TO MOVE CODE AND PROMOTE NEW CODES WITH OUR RATINGS.

SO WE LOOK FOR GENERALLY A RATINGS UPDATE CYCLE OF EVERY THREE YEARS, WE TRY TO MINIMIZE MID CYCLE CHANGES.

UH, SO IF, IF WE GET RECOMMENDATIONS, DID THAT INCLUDE RATINGS UPDATES AS PART OF THESE, OF THESE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT COME FORWARD? WE WOULD REALLY LIKE TO GET THOSE TO SYNC UP WITH OUR RATINGS UPDATES.

UH, IT'S REALLY HARD TO COME UP WITH A VERSION 2.1 AND THEN TO ADMINISTER WHAT PROJECT CAME IN UNDER VERSION 2.0 VERSUS 2.1.

AND IT'S ALSO HARD FOR OUR, OUR PARTICIPANTS TO KEEP TRACK OF THAT.

SO WE REALLY TRY TO MINIMIZE THE MIDSTREAM CHANGES THAT WE DO TO OUR RATINGS.

WE'RE CURRENTLY UPDATING THE COMMERCIAL RATINGS, UH, EXPECT TO HAVE THAT DONE SOMETIME IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF MONTHS.

WE'RE LOOKING AGAIN, THE RESIDENTIAL RATING UPDATE CYCLE IS LAGGING BACK A LITTLE BIT.

UH, WE'RE LOOKING TO, TO INITIATE THE RESIDENTIAL RATING TO UPDATE PROCESS THIS FALL AND LOOK TO HAVE IT EFFECTIVE SOMETIME NEXT CALENDAR YEAR.

SO THAT GIVES YOU AN IDEA OF KIND OF THE WINDOW OF IF YOU MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS, UH, THAT INVOLVE RATINGS, UH, INVOLVEMENT WITH THAT.

THIS IS KIND OF THE, THE TIMEFRAME YOU'RE LOOKING AT FOR THINGS TO BECOME EFFECTIVE.

SHE CAN BRING BOTH A MULTIFAMILY PERSPECTIVE AS WELL AS AN AFFORDABLE PERSPECTIVE AND AN EQUITY PERSPECTIVE TO REVIEW OF, OF THIS WORK AND PARTICIPATION IN THIS WORK.

SO YOU, YOU CREATED THE WORKING GROUP, UH, THE NAMES OF THE COMMISSIONERS THAT ARE PARTICIPANTS WAS ARTICULATED DURING THE MEETING WHERE YOU, YOU DEVELOP THE WORK GROUP.

THERE WAS SOME TO BE DETERMINED WORK AS FAR AS OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN NETWORK GROUP.

UH, SO WE'VE GOT THE THREE COMMISSIONERS LISTED HERE.

WE ALSO HAD GAIL VITTORI, UH, WITH CENTER FOR MAXIMUM POTENTIAL BUILDING SYSTEMS AND GAIL BORST THAT WERE PARTICIPANTS IN THE DISCUSSIONS THAT YOU HAD HERE ON THE DIOCESE, UH, THEIR PARTICIPANTS.

WE'VE ALSO ADDED RAY TAAN JESS.

HE IS A GREEN HOME BUILDER HERE IN AUSTIN, HAD A LOT OF EXPERIENCE IN, IN WORKING WITHIN OUR RATING SYSTEM.

WE'VE GOT MEGAN MATTHEWS, SHE'S THE DIRECTOR OF DESIGN FOR FOUNDATION COMMUNITIES.

[00:35:01]

UH, AS WELL AS TREY FARMER, HE'S A LOCAL ARCHITECT.

IT'S VERY VESTED IN THE TOXIC MATERIALS DISCUSSION.

WE ARE LOOKING AT THIS ADVISORY GROUP, ARE THESE SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS, NOT JUST TO SUPPORT THE WORK OF THE WORKING GROUP, BUT TO BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THE BROADER RECOMMENDATIONS THAT COME OUT OF THE COMMISSION.

SO YOU AS COMMISSIONERS WILL BE ABLE TO CALL ON THEM AND ASK FOR THEIR FEEDBACK.

YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE THE CONSIDERATIONS THAT WERE MADE? HOW DOES THIS POTENTIALLY IMPACT US? BECAUSE WE REALLY WANT TO REFLECT A BROADER VOICE IN, IN THESE CONSIDERATIONS, YOU WILL NOTICE THAT AUSTIN ENERGY STAFF IS NOT LISTED ON HERE.

WE ARE FACILITATORS IN THIS PROCESS.

WE CAN NOT BY, BY A COVENANT AS, AS THE, THE BYLAWS ARE WRITTEN, BE ACTIVE PARTICIPANTS IN THE OUTCOME OF THIS, AS FAR AS THERE IS NOT GOING TO BE A CONSENSUS THAT COMES OUT OF THIS WORKING GROUP THAT SAYS, WE AGB ARE FULLY ON BOARD WITH THIS.

THIS IS GOING TO BE A RECOMMENDATION.

THAT'S GOING TO STAND ON THIS LOAN FROM ON ITS OWN.

FROM THIS WORKING GROUP, WE ARE CERTAINLY GOING TO WORK WITH THE, WITH THE GROUP TO PROVIDE INPUT IS WHAT DO WE AGREE WITH AND WHAT WE DON'T ANY KIND OF CONSENSUS THAT'S ACTUALLY GOING TO BE AGREED TO WOULD BE WITH THE BROADER COMMITTEE OR COMMISSION AS A WHOLE BEING ACTING AS A, AS A WHOLE BODY TO THAT END AS WELL.

UH, I'M REPORTING ON STATUS OF THAT WORKING GROUP TONIGHT AS A MATTER OF CONVENIENCE BECAUSE I'M HERE, BUT YOU WILL EXPECT TO GET UPDATES ON THE COMMITTEE STATUS FROM YOUR COMMISSIONER PARTICIPANTS MOVING FORWARD AS PART OF THIS AS WELL.

OBVIOUSLY HOW LONG THESE MATERIALS ARE PRESENT AND WHAT THEIR IMPACTS ARE CUMULATIVELY IS, IS A SIGNIFICANT COMPONENT OF, OF DEVELOPING THESE RECOMMENDATIONS.

SO PROPOSED SCHEDULE MOVING FORWARD, WHAT IT IS THIS WORKING GROUP REALLY PLANS TO DO, UH, HAD THE FIRST MEETING MAY 24TH, UH, REVIEWED THIS VERY SAME PRESENTATION THAT YOU'VE SEEN HERE THIS EVENING.

UH, WE TALKED ABOUT THE WORK GROUP COMPOSITION YOU'VE SINCE SEEN THAT.

SO WE'RE, WE'RE PRETTY SOLID ON THAT.

ALTHOUGH THAT MAY CHANGE SOME AS, AS NEEDS CHANGE MOVING FORWARD.

I THINK WE REALLY NEED TO DO A LEVEL SETTING ON THE FUNDAMENTALS OF TOXIC BUILDING MATERIALS.

UH, WE'VE GOT ONE MEETING DEDICATED TO THAT WE REALLY WANT TO UNDERSTAND OR GET EVERYBODY ON A COMMON UNDERSTANDING OF THE TOPICS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.

WE NEED TO DO AN ECOSYSTEM OVERVIEW.

I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE AT LEAST TWO MEETINGS.

WE REALLY NEED TO UNDERSTAND ALL THEIR PARTICIPANTS THAT ARE LOOKING AT TOXIC BUILDING MATERIALS.

WE'VE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT LEAD AND WELL W THERE, UH, YOU KNOW, AN, A NUMBER OF OTHERS, UL, THERE'S OTHER RATINGS THAT ARE LOOKING AT THIS, THERE ARE OTHER, ALSO OTHER WORK GROUPS.

UH, WE, WE REALLY NEED TO UNDERSTAND COMPREHENSIVELY WHAT WORK IS BEING DONE OUT THERE.

WHAT WE CAN PULL UPON, PULL FROM WHAT WE CAN ACTIVELY APPLY TO WHAT WE'RE DOING, AND ALSO UNDERSTAND WHERE THE HOLES ARE THAT, YOU KNOW, SO YOU CAN UNDERSTAND WHERE IT IS THAT YOU MAY WANT TO ADDRESS YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS.

ALSO WANT THIS GROUP TO BE ABLE TO DISCUSS WHAT LEADERSHIP LOOKS LIKE FOR THE COMMUNITY AND WHAT POSITION YOU MAY WANT TO TAKE WITH REGARDS TO TOXIC BUILDING MATERIALS, MOVING FORWARD, UH, AGAIN, UNDERSTAND THE IMPACTS AND THE DRIVERS, AND AS RECOMMENDATIONS BEGIN TO BE, UH, DEVELOPED, UH, UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, GET INPUT FROM YOUR, FROM YOUR SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS AND YOUR KEY STAKEHOLDER SEGMENTS, TO BE ABLE TO BOUNCE THESE IDEAS OFF OF THEM INFORMALLY BEFORE YOU MAKE FORMALIZED RECOMMENDATIONS AND THEN HAVE A MEETING TO DEVELOP THE FORMALIZED RECOMMENDATIONS.

AND I THINK WITH THAT, I CAN TAKE ANY QUESTIONS YOU GOT.

THANKS VERY MUCH.

APPRECIATE IT.

UH, COMMISSIONER HAS ANY QUESTIONS? UM, COMMISSIONER WHITE.

YEAH, THANKS.

UM, I, I DID, I HAD A COMMENT, UM, I GUESS FIRST AND, AND I GUESS SORT OF A QUESTION, UM, THE COMMENT BEING THAT, UM, NOR A RESOLUTION DID, UH, SPECIFICALLY CALL OUT CONSIDERING THE, UM, LIFECYCLE IMPACTS OF MATERIALS.

AND, UH, SO JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT IS, UH, REMAINING, YOU KNOW, AS A, A PIECE OF WHAT IS BEING CONSIDERED.

UM, AND, AND I GUESS QUESTION, YOU KNOW, IS, IS THAT PART OF WHAT, WHAT IS, UM, YOU KNOW, FALLING UNDER THE WORK OF, OF THIS GROUP GOING FORWARD THAT WILL ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO BE, UH, A CONSIDERATION, UH,

[00:40:01]

SO IT WILL ABSOLUTELY BE A PART OF WHAT'S GOING DISCUSSED AND CONSIDERED.

GREAT.

I'M GLAD TO HEAR THAT.

CAUSE YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU MENTIONED EQUITY AS A PRINCIPAL A FEW TIMES, AND THAT'S GREAT.

I'M GLAD TO HEAR THAT.

UM, JUST, YOU KNOW, KIND OF FOR A BINDER THAT, THAT, THAT I THINK DOES REQUIRE LOOKING OUTSIDE THE WALLS OF THE BUILDING, BECAUSE OF COURSE, COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, ESPECIALLY IN THIS STATE, UM, BUT IN GENERAL ARE, UH, YOU KNOW, MOST IMPACTED BY THAT MANUFACTURING AND A LOT OF THE, THE MORE TOXIC MATERIALS THAT WE, THAT WE USE IN BUILDINGS AND ELSEWHERE.

SO JUST, YEAH, THANK YOU.

JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WASN'T GETTING LOST.

SO IF YOU'D LIKE A VIEW INTO THE VERY FIRST THING THAT'S BEING CONSIDERED BY THIS GROUP, UH, OUR HOMEWORK GOING FORWARD WAS TO LOOK AT A SERIES OF VIDEOS BY DR.

ARLENE BLOOM OUT OF BERKELEY.

UH, SHE'S GOT A SERIES OF VIDEOS CALLED SIX CLASSES WHERE SHE BREAKS DOWN, UH, CHEMICALS INTO SIX BASIC CLASSES, UH, AS A WAY TO BETTER GET A GRASP ON IT.

AND SHE SPEAKS EXTENSIVELY ABOUT LIFE CYCLE IMPACTS AND IMPACTS ACROSS THE GLOBE THAT ARE EXPERIENCED FROM THIS.

IF YOU GO TO AND LOOK UP ARLENE BLOOM, BLOOM SIX CLASSES, THERE ARE, I BELIEVE, SEVEN VIDEOS, THERE'S AN INTRO.

AND THEN THE SIX CLASSES IT TAKES ABOUT 30 MINUTES TO VIEW ALL OF THEM.

THAT'LL GIVE YOU A GOOD PRIMER INTO THE FIRST THING THAT THIS, THIS WORK GROUP IS GOING TO BE CONSIDERING TOMORROW.

THAT'S AWESOME.

UM, ACTUALLY I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GREAT LINK.

UM, IT'S COULD YOU SEND THAT AROUND TO THE CONVENTION? I THINK THAT WOULD BE GOOD FOR US IF IT ONLY TAKES 30 MINUTES, PROBABLY A BUNCH OF US CAN TAKE THE TIME TO EDUCATE OURSELVES A LITTLE MORE.

YOU'LL BE HAPPY TO.

UH, THANKS.

AND I GUESS THAT SORT OF ADDRESSES MY QUESTION, UM, WHICH WAS, I, YOU KNOW, FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU.

UM, AND I SEE THAT YOU'VE ADDED, UH, YOU KNOW, THE OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE INDICATED INTEREST IN JOINING, UH, THE WORKING GROUP.

I THINK THAT'S GREAT.

UM, I DON'T SEE ANY HEALTH PROFESSIONALS AND I, AND I WILL SAY I DID REACH OUT TO PHYSICIANS FOR, UH, PHYSICIANS FOR RESPONSIBILITY IN THE HOPE THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE SOMEBODY AND THEY JUST DIDN'T HAVE ANYBODY THAT HAD CAPACITY.

UM, BUT SO I DON'T SEE ANYBODY THAT KIND OF CHECKS THAT BOX THERE.

IT SOUNDS LIKE, UM, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU ARE GETTING SOME CONTENT, UM, FROM SOMEBODY WITH THAT KIND OF BACKGROUND, BUT JUST WONDERING, HAS ANYBODY BEEN IDENTIFIED THAT, UM, CAN PROVIDE ANY ADDITIONAL CONSULTING FOR THE US, FOR THIS WORK, FROM THE, YOU KNOW, KIND OF MEDICAL STANDPOINT? WE HAVEN'T IDENTIFIED THEM SPECIFICALLY YET.

UH, EITHER WE, WE HAVEN'T, WE HAVEN'T DETERMINED WHO WE WOULD LIKE TO LOOK TO FROM A CONTENT PERSPECTIVE.

UH, WE'RE TRYING TO FIND CANNED CONTENT TO BRING FORWARD.

UH, WE REALLY DON'T HAVE BANDWIDTH TO PROVIDE A BUNCH OF, OF ORIGINAL CONTENT.

UH, AND WE'RE ALSO LOOKING AT TRYING TO BE MINDFUL OF MANAGING THE SIZE OF, OF THIS WORKING GROUP TO BE MANAGEABLE.

UH, SO I WOULD LEAVE IT TO THEM IF THEY WANNA, IF THEY WANT TO ADD MEDICAL, UH, MEDICAL PERSPECTIVE, THAT'D BE UP TO THEM, BUT WE ARE, WE'RE ALL, THEY'RE ALSO TRYING TO BE MINDFUL OF, OF HAVING A MANAGEABLE SIZE GROUP AS WELL.

CAN I MAKE A COMMENT? UH, YES.

COMMISSIONER ROBBINS.

UM, I REALIZED THAT I REALIZED THAT IT'S, UH, NOT, UM, STAFF'S JOB TO, UM, PROMOTE THE NEED FOR MORE STAFF AND MORE SUPPORT, BUT INFORMALLY IT'S OUR JOB.

AND WE SHOULD, IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, BE ADVOCATING FOR MORE STAFF SO THAT THEY'RE NOT, UH, OVEREXTENDED.

WELL, ACTUALLY IT'S NOT EVEN INFORMAL FORMAL.

IT IS FORMALLY PART OF OUR, I AGREE.

COMMENTS FOR KURT? I HAVE A QUESTION SLASH COMMENT OR MAYBE ONE OF EACH CAN YOU ALL HEAR ME? OKAY, GREAT.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR

[00:45:01]

UM, YEAH, SO A LITTLE BIT EARLIER IN THE SLIDES UNDER DRIVERS, Y'ALL MENTION EQUITY AND, AND TALKS A LOT ABOUT COST AND AFFORDABILITY.

UM, SO, YOU KNOW, A KEY COMPONENT OF EQUITY IS ALSO UNDERSTANDING THE DISPROPORTIONATE IMPACTS ON PEOPLE OF COLOR.

AND SO I'M CURIOUS, UH, IF THERE'S DEMOGRAPHIC DATA IN ADDITION TO COST OR AFFORDABILITY DATA THAT Y'ALL ARE LOOKING AT, UM, THERE, UH, AND THEN THAT'S ALSO A KEY COMPONENT THAT THE WORKING GROUP I THINK SHOULD BE, SHOULD BE LOOKING AT IS, IS THAT IS, UH, RACE AND OTHER DEMOCRAT DEMOGRAPHIC DATA, SOMETHING Y'ALL ARE LOOKING AT IN TERMS OF THE DRIVERS.

UM, WE HAVEN'T YET.

UH, BUT ALSO, UM, I'M GOING TO ASK SOME OF THE COMMISSIONERS TO SPEAK TO SOME OF THIS, AS WELL AS TO SOME OF THE AREAS THEY WANT TO HEAD SHANE.

UM, I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S A STATISTICALLY VALID SURVEY, BUT IT IS HIGHLY LIKELY THAT, UH, POOR PEOPLE ARE MORE ADVERSELY AFFECTED SIMPLY BECAUSE SOME OF THE MATERIALS THAT ARE MORE TOXIC ARE LESS EXPENSIVE AND THEY'RE MORE LIKELY TO BE USED IN APARTMENTS AND TRACT HOMES THAN IN UPPER SCALE HOMES.

THANKS FOR POINTING THAT OUT.

UM, MAYBE I'LL, I'LL CLARIFY THAT PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY LOW INCOME.

AND SO THERE'S, THERE'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE AN OVERLAP WITH, IN TERMS OF DISPROPORTIONATE IMPACTS ON RACE FOR ANY ISSUE, BUT IT'S FORTUNATELY IMPACTS, UH, LOW-INCOME PEOPLE.

SO I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S CLEARLY UNDERSTOOD.

UM, BUT YEAH, I, AND, AND, YOU KNOW, GRANTS AT ALL, I'LL SAY, YOU KNOW, THE, UM, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A QUICK OVERVIEW OF, UH, OF, OF A LARGE PROGRAM AND, YOU KNOW, I DON'T EXACTLY KNOW WHAT KIND DATA AND PROCESSES Y'ALL USE TO, IN TERMS OF THE DRIVERS.

SO, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S A WAY TO LOOK AT FROM AFAR DEMOGRAPHIC DATA CAN BE BROUGHT IN, I THINK THAT'D BE REALLY POWERFUL FROM AFAR.

UH, WE PROBABLY HAVE ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL ALLIES ON THIS ISSUE THAT WE COULD ASK FOR IN AUSTIN, WHICH WOULD BE FOUNDATION COMMUNITIES.

UH, THEY, WELL, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THEIR REPUTATION SHANE, BUT I'M NOT SURE IF, YOU KNOW, UH, HOW MUCH THEY WORK ON SUSTAINABILITY, UM, AS WELL AS AFFORDABILITY.

SO, UM, HOPEFULLY, UH, THEIR PARTICIPATION WILL, UM, UH, ASSUAGE SOME OF YOUR, UH, CONCERNS.

THANKS FOR UPLIFTING THAT, UM, OF ALL.

UM, YEAH, I, I THINK THAT, UM, IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, ADDING, ADDING ADDITIONAL X IN AN IDEAL WORLD WHERE WE COULD ADD A LOT MORE ADDITIONAL EXPERTISE AND CAPACITY TO THE, TO THE WORKING GROUP, I THINK IT WOULD BE, IT WOULD BE VERY IMPORTANT TO HAVE PEOPLE WHO HAVE EXPERTISE IN RACIAL EQUITY AND ANALYSIS THERE IN ADDITION TO, TO, UH, A HEALTH EXPERT OR HEALTH PRACTITIONER.

UM, SO JUST SEEING THEM ADD THAT TO THE, AT LEAST TO THE WISHLIST, YOU KNOW, IF THAT'S, IF IT ENDS UP NOT BEING POSSIBLE TO ADD TO THIS WORKING GROUP, I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S, UH, UH, THAT PERSPECTIVE IS COMMUNICATED.

Y'ALL ALL RIGHT.

FINAL QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS.

UH, MR. HARMON.

I MADE UP OF OUR COMMISSIONERS TO THE COMMISSION WOULD LOVE TO CONTINUE TO HEAR, UM, YOU KNOW, KIND OF WHAT, WHAT METRICS YOU'RE TRACKING, UM, WHAT ORGANIZATIONS ARE INVOLVED.

UM, SO FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, KURT FOR THE THOUGHTFUL PRESENTATION.

THIS WAS REALLY HELPFUL FOR ME, UM, PERSONALLY, AND, UM, APPRECIATE YOU TAKING US THROUGH IT ALL.

UM, I WAS HAPPY TO HEAR THE MENTION OF THE EQUITY FOCUS AT SEVERAL POINTS IN YOUR PRESENTATION, BUT I'LL, I'LL ECHO THE SENTIMENT OF THE COMMISSION.

YOU KNOW, CLEARLY IT IS A TOPIC THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO US.

AND, UM, I'M PERSONALLY HAPPY TO HEAR YOU ALL GOING BEYOND AFFORDABILITY, KIND OF RECOGNIZING THAT THERE'S A LOT MORE TO IT THAN THAT.

AND, UM, EITHER IN YOUR UPDATES TO THE COMMISSION OR TO, OR FROM THE, THE, UM, WORKING GROUPS UPDATES

[00:50:01]

I KNOW YOU, YOU MENTIONED NAACP AND SEVERAL OTHERS AND, AND LOCAL ORGANIZATIONS, UM, WILL BE GREAT TO HEAR, UM, WHO, WHO ALL YOU HAVE INVOLVED, UH, IN, IN, AS, AS YOU'RE ENGAGING WITH THE COMMUNITY IN THAT RESPECT.

UM, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE A COUPLE OF OTHER QUICK COMMENTS WHILE I'VE GOT, UM, THE, THE MIC.

UM, I THINK IT'S GREAT TO SEE THE PARTNERSHIPS.

I THINK THE, THE PARTNERSHIP WITH THE UNIVERSITY OF COLORADO, OR EXCUSE ME, COLORADO UNIVERSITY, IS REALLY INNOVATIVE AND, UM, COOL TO, TO, TO HEAR, UM, THAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE BRINGING IN, UH, ACADEMIC RESEARCH, UH, INTO YOUR PROGRAM.

UM, AND YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S OPPORTUNITIES, UM, I DON'T KNOW, BUT, YOU KNOW, FOR SOME OF CON UH, COMMENTS REGARDING PULL LIFE CYCLE AND, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THAT RESEARCH, I THINK THAT WOULD BE REALLY INTERESTING TO, TO HEAR ABOUT, UM, AS, AS WELL.

UM, I GUESS MY, MY, MY REAL QUESTION HERE, UM, NEXT IS MAYBE MORE TO THE WORKING GROUP THEN TO KURT, YOU AND YOUR TEAM.

AND THAT IS FOR THE WORKING GROUP, UM, PAUL OR OTHERS ON THE WORKING GROUP WOULD LOVE TO HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS ON HOW, YOU KNOW, AS THIS WORK PROCEEDS, AND YOU GO THROUGH THE, THE MEETINGS THAT, UM, THAT CURRENT OUTLINED FOR US, HOW DO YOU EXPECT THE KIND OF COMMUNICATION BACK TO THE FULL COMMISSION TO GO, AND HOW CAN WE BE MOST SUPPORTIVE TO YOU ALL IN YOUR WORK AND TO AGB IN KIND OF HELPING TO ADVANCE THE MISSION OVERALL? UM, COULD YOU SPEAK TO THAT FOR A MINUTE OR TWO PLEASE? UM, SORRY, I DIDN'T MEAN TO JUMP THE SPOT.

PAUL JUST WOULD LOVE TO HEAR YOUR I'LL JUST I'LL, I'LL ECHO WHAT I SAID A FEW MOMENTS AGO, WHICH IS THAT, UM, WE NEED, WE ARE PROBABLY GOING TO NEED MORE STAFF TIME, UH, DEDICATED TO A PROGRAM, UH, IF WE ARE SUCCESSFUL IN ORIGINATING ONE, UH, UH, IT'S NOT MY INTENT, UH, TO, UH, ADD ONE MORE BURDEN TO THE GREEN BUILDING PROGRAMS STAFF.

UH, I'M HOPING THAT IF WE COME UP WITH SOMETHING SUCCESSFUL, WE CAN ALL ADVOCATE FOR, UH, THE WHEREWITHAL TO GET IT DONE.

UM, AND, AND IF, IF THERE'S ONE THING THAT, UH, I WOULD ASK HELP FROM, UH, FOR THE COMMISSIONERS ON THIS, IT WOULD BE TO GET MORE STAFF IF WE'RE SUCCESSFUL.

UH, AND THE OTHER THING WOULD BE TO GO TO YOUR RESPECTIVE, UH, COUNCIL MEMBERS THAT APPOINTED YOU AND TELL THEM, SAY WE NEED THIS OR THAT THAT'S COME OUT OF THE WORKING GROUP.

THAT THAT'S HELPFUL.

AND PERHAPS WE CAN HAVE A DISCUSSION ON THE STAFF POINT SPECIFICALLY, UM, AS, AS THE WORK PROGRESSES AND WE GET CLOSER TO RECOMMENDATIONS.

I KNOW I'VE HEARD KURT SAY THAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE NOT ASKING FOR MORE STAFF SPECIFICALLY.

AND SO, UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE COMMISSIONER WILL BE VERY, UM, YOU KNOW, INTERESTED IN HEARING WHAT YOU MAY BE ASKING FOR IN ORDER TO ACTUALLY IMPLEMENT THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT COME OUT OF THE COMMISSION, YOU KNOW, KIND OF LIKE WHAT WOULD BE A WORKABLE PATH.

UM, SO I KNOW I, FOR ONE WOULD BE INTERESTED IN THAT AS, AS THIS COMMISSION GOES THROUGH ITS, UM, ITS EXERCISES.

UM, BUT I GUESS PAUL, MAYBE WHAT I MEANT MORE SPECIFICALLY WAS AS YOU GO THROUGH THE SERIES OF MEETINGS, COULD WE EXPECT LIKE A, I DON'T KNOW, A REPORT OUT TO THE, TO THE FULL COMMISSION, UM, OF THE PROGRESS OF EACH OF THE MEETINGS AND KIND OF, YOU KNOW, KIND OF JUST A, BASICALLY AN UPDATE OF THE, THE WORK OF THE GROUP.

UH, IT MAY TAKE THREE OR FOUR MEETINGS BEFORE WE HAVE A FEEL FOR WHAT, UH, WHERE WE'RE HEADED.

BUT DON'T EXPECT TOO MUCH QUICKLY.

UH, MY GUESS IS THAT THIS IS, UH, GOING TO, UH, TAKE SEVERAL MEETINGS TO CRYSTALLIZE, BUT HAVING SAID THAT IT'S NOT MY INTENTION TO KEEP ANY COMMISSIONER OR ANY, UH, NON COMMISSIONER FOR THAT MATTER IN THE DARK, IF I'M ASKED, UH, YEAH, WE CAN, WE CAN DO UPDATES, BUT I I'M, I DON'T WANT TO OVER PROMISE EXCITEMENT.

[00:55:01]

UNDERSTOOD, BUT TO TOTALLY GET THAT.

AND WE'LL LEAVE IT UP TO YOU GUYS TO TELL US WHEN, WHEN IT MAKES SENSE, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, TO THE EXTENT THAT WE'RE ABLE TO, UM, I KNOW, YOU KNOW, THIS, BUT FOR EXAMPLE, DEVELOP RECOMMENDATIONS AND HOPEFULLY GET THEM PAST THE COMMISSION, YOU KNOW, IN ADVANCE OF A BUDGET PROCESS BY, YOU KNOW, JUST WORKING IN THE TIMELINE, UM, YOU KNOW, JUST WOULD HELP TO BE THOUGHTFUL ABOUT THOSE, UM, YOU KNOW, TH THOSE EVENTS AND, AND REALLY AT THE END, I THINK MY, MY, MY INTENT YEARS TO, YOU KNOW, TO, TO REALLY, I THINK IT'S, I THINK IT'S FANTASTIC THAT THERE'S THIS COLLABORATIVE WORKING RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE WORKING GROUP AND AUSTIN ENERGY STAFF.

THAT'S MANAGING IT.

UM, I LOVE TO HEAR THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A COLLABORATIVE PARTNERSHIP.

UM, YOU KNOW, MY HOPE IS THAT AS A RESULT OF THIS, UM, YOU KNOW, GOOD THINGS WILL HAPPEN MEANINGFUL IMPACT THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, CONTINUES TO PUSH THE ENVELOPE, BUT AVOIDS THE, UM, YOU KNOW, POTENTIAL GOING TOO FAST AND, AND, UM, YOU KNOW, SEEING SOME OF THE NEGATIVE FALLOUT, THE CURT MENTIONED THAT THE STAFF IS AWARE OF.

UM, SO I GUESS MAYBE WHAT I'M SAYING IS JUST LET US KNOW WHAT YOU NEED FROM US, AND WE'LL LOOK FORWARD TO UPDATES, UM, AS, AS THEY'RE AVAILABLE.

COMMISSIONER SIR.

I JUST WANTED TO, SORRY, LET ME BRING THAT A LITTLE BIT CLOSER.

JUST WANTED TO, YOU KNOW, PUT A LITTLE BIT OF COLOR AROUND THINGS HERE.

UM, IT HAS BEEN MORE OR LESS OUR INTENT THAT IS PART OF THIS COLLABORATION WITH AUSTIN ENERGY ON THIS PROJECT, THAT THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THIS, UH, COMMITTEE, UH, SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMISSION.

I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE WHAT OUR LANGUAGES HERE, BUT, UH, OF THIS WORKING GROUP ARE TO COME UP WITH RECOMMENDATIONS FOR AUSTIN GREEN BUILDING TO INCORPORATE INTO ITS EXISTING PROGRAM.

UM, SO IT WILL BE SOMETHING WE'RE, WE'RE GOING TO BASICALLY REACH A CONSENSUS ALONG WITH THE, YOU KNOW, WE WILL REACH A CONSENSUS AND KURT WILL SIT ACROSS THE TABLE AND KIND OF GIVE US THE NOD.

LIKE, NO, YOU CAN'T DO THAT.

OR YES, YOU CAN DO THAT.

AND WE'LL KIND OF KNOW WHAT OUR PATH FORWARD IS GOING TO BE THERE.

SO IT WILL BE SOMETHING THAT THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO ADD INTO THE EXISTING PROGRAM AS PART OF THEIR REGULAR REVIEW.

SO WE DON'T REALLY SEE THIS AS BEING SOMETHING WHERE IT'S GOING TO BE.

WE HOPE ANYWAY, A MUCH BIGGER BURDEN ON THEM OTHER THAN BASICALLY HAVING TO SIT THERE AND PLAY BABYSITTER FOR US DURING THESE MEETINGS AS WE'RE GOING THROUGH THIS PROCESS.

UM, IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT? KURT? ABSOLUTELY.

SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I HAD THAT CORRECT.

UM, AND THEN, UH, I FORGOT WHAT THE OTHER THING WAS IN THE MEANTIME, SO I'LL JUST SHUT UP AGAIN.

UH, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? HI, THIS IS REBECCA.

CAN YOU GUYS HEAR ME? OKAY.

UM, MY, MY IDEA OF THIS WORKING GROUP AND THE TOXIC MATERIALS, UM, ISSUE IS MORE TO JUST CONTINUE PUSHING, UM, AUSTIN ENERGY AND THE CITY OF AUSTIN TO CONTINUALLY UPDATE AS THINGS CHANGE BECAUSE, UM, YOU KNOW, THINGS DON'T STAY THE SAME AND AUSTIN PRIDES ITSELF ON BEING, UM, A FORWARD-THINKING CITY.

SO, YOU KNOW, JUST TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THAT TOXIC MATERIALS IS JUST ONE WAY TO KIND OF CREATE MAYBE A METHOD FOR, UM, OR MAYBE JUST, UH, JUST A WAY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO UPDATE AS THINGS COME UP.

UM, SO THE TOXIC MATERIALS IS JUST THE FIRST EXAMPLE, BUT OTHER THINGS ARE GONNA COME UP.

AND SO, UM, EVEN IF SOMETHING DOESN'T COME UP WHERE LIKE THEY NEED EXTRA STAFF, WHICH HOPEFULLY NOT, IT, IT BECOMES PART OF THEIR PROCESS TO JUST LOOK AT WHAT THEY'RE DOING, LOOK AT WHAT, UM, THEY COULD BE DOING BETTER.

AND, UM, SO THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I'M EXPECTING FROM THIS.

AND SO AS THINGS, UM, DEVELOP FROM THE WORKING GROUP, UM, WE'LL DEFINITELY LET THE REST OF THE COMMISSION KNOW, DOES THAT, IS THAT HELPFUL? CAUSE THAT, THAT'S HOW I SEE IT.

UM, I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GONNA COME OF IT.

HOPEFULLY THEY JUST INCORPORATE THESE THINGS LIKE THEY NORMALLY DO EVERY SIX YEARS OR, YOU KNOW, UM, SO IT'S JUST A PART OF US TO PUSH THEM TO DO BETTER.

THAT WAS ALL HELPFUL TO ME.

THANK YOU GUYS.

A LITTLE BIT EARLIER, BUT, UM, UH, IN REGARDS SPECIFICALLY TO THE SIZE OF THE COMMISSION, UM, KURT CAN TELL YOU JUST BY OUR LAST DOODLE POLL, TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO AGREE UPON A SIMPLE MEETING TIME TO BE ABLE TO HAVE OUR SECOND MEETING, HOW MUCH OF A CHORE THAT IS.

UH, COMMISSIONER SEWN.

UM, YEAH, THE OTHER THING THAT I, I KIND OF FORGOT

[01:00:01]

AND SO WE'VE BEEN TRYING DELIBERATELY TO KEEP THE GROUP RELATIVELY SMALL.

WE HAVE EIGHT STANDING MEMBERS PLUS THREE HELPING US.

SO WE'RE ALREADY UP AT 11.

SO THAT'S PART OF WHY I AM NOT CONCERNED NECESSARILY ABOUT HAVING STANDING MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE FROM OTHER CONSTITUENCIES, AS LONG AS WE CAN FIND PEOPLE TO ACT AS A RESOURCE FOR US AS WE CONTINUE TO MOVE THROUGH THIS PROCESS AND CAN BOUNCE INFORMATION OFF OF THEM ON A ONE-OFF OR A REGULAR BASIS ON A CONSULTATIVE BASIS, RATHER THAN ACTING AS MEMBERS OF THE STANDING COMMITTEE.

SO IT'S KIND OF LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN WE GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS AND WE COME UP WITH SOME RECOMMENDATIONS ON BUILDING MATERIAL, LET'S SAY THAT SHOULD ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY, NEVER BE USED AGAIN.

AND SO WE WILL NOW GO TO THE BUILDING COMMUNITY.

WE'LL TALK TO PEOPLE IN THE TRADES THERE AS WELL TO SECURE THEIR BUY-IN SAME THING.

YOU WOULD ALSO BE TALKING TO PEOPLE WHO REPRESENT, UH, COMMUNITIES OF COLOR AND YOU WOULD GET THEM, YOU WOULD GET BUY IN FROM THEM AS WELL ON SOME OF THESE PLANS.

BUT THE IDEA IS WE WANT TO KEEP THE ACTUAL WORKING GROUP SOMETHING THAT'S MORE MANAGEABLE.

AND SO THAT'S WHY WE KIND OF SETTLED ON THE SIZE THAT WE'RE IN RIGHT NOW.

FINAL QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS.

UH, THANK YOU, KURT.

APPRECIATE IT.

I DON'T KNOW WHY I COULDN'T THINK OF THE GOLDEN GATE BRIDGE, BUT THAT WAS WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT.

IT'S RECORDED FOR POSTERITY.

TO ITEM THREE, AUSTIN ENERGY RESILIENCY AS A SERVICE PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT UPDATE.

UH, MOVING ON

[3. Austin Energy Resiliency as a Service (RaaS) Program Development Update.]

GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS.

MY NAME IS ERIC .

I'M VICE PRESIDENT ENERGY MARKET OPERATIONS AND RESOURCE PLANNING HERE AT AUSTIN ENERGY.

AND, UM, IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, WE'LL GO OVER A BACKGROUND ON, UH, THIS PROGRAM AND A PROGRAM OVERVIEW AND THEN TAKE ANY QUESTIONS YOU GUYS MIGHT HAVE.

OKAY, GOOD.

EXCELLENT.

UM, UM, SO FOR SOME TIME, UM, GROCERY STORES, CRITICAL LOAD HAVE, UH, GROCERY STORES LIKE HEB.

THEY'VE BEEN PARTNERING WITH GENERATION COMPANIES, UH, INSTALLING DISTRIBUTED GENERATION, UM, ON THEIR SIDE OF THE METER ON CUSTOMER, ON CUSTOMER, UH, AT THE CUSTOMER LOCATION.

AND, UM, THEY'RE LOOKING, YOU KNOW, BACKUP GENERATION ANYWHERE FROM THAT LOWER LEVEL, THE 2,250 KILOWATTS UP TO UP TO 10 MEGAWATTS AND THIS KIND OF RESILIENCY, THIS, THIS GENERATION IS, IS BEING SOUGHT AFTER, UM, BY CUSTOMERS, UH, TO PROVIDE PROTECTION FROM HURRICANES, FROM STORMS AND OTHER TYPES OF OUTAGES GENERATION COMPANIES ACTUALLY OPERATE THE GENERATORS AND THEY SELL INTO THE ERCOT MARKET DURING WINTER STORM, UH, URI, UH, GROCERY STORES WITH BACKUP GENERATION MAINTAINED POWER THROUGHOUT THE STORM.

UM, IN THE MIDDLE OF LAST YEAR, UM, SB 3 98 ACTUALLY, UM, ALLOWED GROCERY STORES, FOOD SUPPLY CHAINS TO CONTRACT WITH GENERATION COMPANIES TO INSTALL BACKUP GENERATION AND ACCESS THE WHOLESALE MARKET IN NOEY SERVICE TERRITORIES.

SO NOAH'S DO HAVE RIGHT OF FIRST REFUSAL, UH, TO EITHER BUY THE GEN OR ACT AS A QUEASY.

UM, BUT THE BILL DOES REQUIRE NON-OPEN ENTITIES, UH, TO ALLOW INTERCONNECTION AND TO PROVIDE ACCESS TO TRANSMISSION SYSTEMS, UH, TO THE TRANSMISSION SYSTEM ON A NON-DISCRIMINATORY BASIS.

AND THERE'S ALSO A REQUIREMENT TO DO THIS, UH, IN A VERY TIMELY MANNER.

SO A STOP STOP, UH, CLOCK, UH, DOES START ONCE THAT APPLICATION HAS BEEN SUBMITTED AND WE'RE REQUIRED TO, TO TURN THAT AROUND WITHIN A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME GO TO THE NEXT.

SO, UM, AUSTIN ENERGY, UM, MOVED, UH, TO BE PART OF, UH, THIS SOLUTION FOR, DO YOU HAVE, OH, OKAY.

SORRY ABOUT THAT.

UH, YOU HAVE A HOST CUSTOMER THAT'S DRIVING THIS, UM, THIS NEED OR THIS WANT, UM, AUSTIN ENERGY IS, UH, PROVIDING A PLATFORM THAT WILL ALLOW FOR THEM TO, UM, MEET WITH A QUALIFIED VENDORS, UM, AND, UH, DETERMINE WHAT A RESILIENCY PROGRAM BEST FITS THE SOLUTION THEY REQUIRE.

UM, SO ONCE THIS BILL WAS PASSED, UM, AUSTIN ENERGY, UM, WORKED TO, UH, DEVELOP A PROGRAM, UH, THAT WOULD MEET THEIR CUSTOMER NEEDS.

THIS PROGRAM IS, UM, TO MEET, UM, OUR CUSTOMER'S RESILIENCY NEEDS, UM, BUT ALSO BE PART OF THE SOLUTION.

UM, UH, SO THEN WE CAN BE PART OF THAT, UH, CONTROL AND MANAGE THAT GENERATION IN OUR SERVICE TERRITORY DOES, YOU CAN SEE HERE,

[01:05:01]

UH, AND THEN, UH, WE WILL WORK WITH OUR CUSTOMERS, UM, TO, UH, DEVELOP THAT RELATIONSHIP WITH, UH, THOSE, UH, VENDORS ON OUR, UM, VENDOR REQUIRED LIST.

WE HAVE A CERTAIN LIST THAT THEY HAVE TO MEET SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS.

UM, AND THEN, UM, WE WILL WORK WITH THEM, UH, IN THAT, UH, RELATIONSHIP.

SO THEN OUR CUSTOMER HAS, UM, YOU KNOW, THE BEST PRODUCT POSSIBLE.

YOU CAN GO TO THE NEXT PROGRAM.

SO THE PROGRAM HAS, UM, WE, WE WORKED, UH, TO DEVELOP THIS PROGRAM.

SO THEN IT WOULD REALLY OPTIMIZE, UM, THE, UM, THE BENEFITS THAT THIS CAN BRING OUR CUSTOMERS.

SO FIRST OF ALL, IT PROVIDES IMPROVED RELIABILITY AND RESILIENCY, UM, UH, TO, TO THE HOST SITE, TO THE HOST CUSTOMER.

UH, IT PROVIDES THEM BUSINESS CONTINUITY AND AN AFFORDABLE WAY FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THIS RELIABILITY.

THIS ALSO, UH, CAN BRING THIS ALSO BRINGS VALUE TO OUR CUSTOMER'S PORTFOLIO AS FAR AS HEDGE VALUE, PRICE PROTECTION FOR CP REDUCTION, UH, AND THEN LOAD ZONE PRICE, UH, SEPARATION MITIGATION THAT WE EXPERIENCED IN OUR LOAD ZONE, UH, AS A UTILITY IT'S PROVIDES US THAT FLEXIBILITY, UM, TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE THIS, UH, RESOURCE OR, OR THIS, UM, THIS NEED THAT OUR CUSTOMER HAS AND AT THE SAME TIME BE PART OF THAT SOLUTION.

SO WE ARE, UM, AWARE OF WHAT IS OCCURRING IN OUR LOAD ZONE.

UH, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT, UM, WILL OCCUR WITH OR WITHOUT US.

UM, SO IT IS A WAY FOR US TO BE ABLE TO, UM, PROTECT, UH, THE AMOUNT OF GENERATION THAT IS COMING INTO OUR SERVICE TERRITORY, IF YOU CAN GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE.

SO THE KEY TAKEAWAYS, UM, FOR, FOR YOU TODAY IS THAT THIS PROGRAM IS ABOUT PROVIDING RESILIENCY AND SAFETY FOR OUR CUSTOMERS AND FOR OUR COMMUNITY.

OUR CUSTOMERS HAVE DEMANDED THIS PROGRAM AND WE'RE REQUIRED TO FACILITATE THIS, UM, BY S UH, SENATE BILL 3 98.

UM, THESE DISTRIBUTED GENERATION FACILITIES ARE GOING TO BE INSTALLED WITH, OR WITHOUT THIS RISE PROGRAM.

AND UNDER THIS PROGRAM, THESE ASSETS WILL RUN ROUGHLY 10% OR LESS ANNUALLY.

AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT CAN NOT BE COMMITTED TO OR PROMISED.

UM, IF WE'RE NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION, NATURAL GRASSES IS A BRIDGE FUEL, AND THE NEXT STEP IS FOLDING IN OUR SOLAR PLUS STORAGE SOLUTION.

UH, RAZ PASSES THESE RELIABILITY, UH, THE RELIABILITY AND THE COST SAVINGS BENEFITS TO AI CUSTOMERS THAT WOULD NOT OTHERWISE BE CAPTURED IF WE WERE NOT PROVIDING THE SERVICE TO OUR CUSTOMERS AND ALLOWING THEM TO GO TO THIRD PARTY VENDORS.

SO THAT'S ALL I HAVE FOR YOU TODAY, UH, WITH REGARDS TO THE PROGRAM.

ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS I CAN ANSWER? THANKS, ERICA.

THAT'S A REALLY, REALLY INTERESTING DO YOU, I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.

DO YOU, UH, ARE THERE ANY ASSETS THAT YOU HAVE LIVE ALREADY IN THIS PROGRAM? NO.

HAVE, WHEN, WHEN WE SPEAK TO OUR CUSTOMERS, UM, WE TALKED TO THEM ABOUT BEING ABLE TO, UM, USE THAT AS KIND OF A GOAL TO GET TO, UM, AS THAT SOLUTION BECOMES MORE AFFORDABLE FOR THEM, THEN WE WOULD BE ABLE TO TRANSITION THEM.

UH, AND IS THERE LIKE A, I MEAN, YOU HAVE A LIST OF DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS OR WHERE, WHAT ARE THE, WHERE THE ACTUAL ASSETS STAND? UH, IT'S WE HAVE A LIST OF CRITICAL LOAD THAT IS INTERESTED IN PARTICIPATING.

SO WE HAVE ALREADY, WE'VE BEEN CONTACTED BY OUR CUSTOMERS, UM, UH, THAT WE ALREADY HAVE A DEVELOPED, WE'VE ALREADY GOTTEN APPROVED, LIKE A PILOT PROGRAM.

SO FOR UM, SMALL, UH, BEHIND THE METER AS WELL AS SOME OF OUR LARGER IN FRONT OF THE METER TYPE LOAD.

GOTCHA.

DO YOU, UH, WHAT TECHNOLOGIES ARE FOLKS MENTIONING WHEN THEY COME TO YOU TO PARTICIPATE IN THAT? SO RIGHT NOW THEY'RE INTERESTED IN AFFORDABLE, UM, UH, RESILIENCY.

SO THEY'RE INTERESTED IN, UH, NA NATURAL GAS, UM, DISPATCHABLE GENERATION TO PUT, UM, BEHIND THEIR METER.

GOTCHA.

AND THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU MENTIONED NATURAL GAS IS A BRIDGE FUEL.

THE NEXT STEP IS FOLDING IN SOLAR AND STORAGE.

WHAT IS THAT LOOK LIKE? UM, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN, UM, EVALUATING, PURSUING.

UM, IT IS A SOLUTION THAT OUR CUSTOMERS DON'T IT'S IS NOT AFFORDABLE FOR THEM YET.

UM, BUT WHEN WE, UH,

[01:10:01]

SO, UH, LOOKING AT, UH, SHORTER TIME HORIZONS ON CONTRACTING FOR GENERATION.

SO THEN, YOU KNOW, SHOULD THAT EMERGING TECHNOLOGY START TO COME INTO, YOU KNOW, UH, UH, INTO, UH, IN A MORE AFFORDABLE SPHERE, THEN THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THOSE CUSTOMERS THAT DO WANT THAT, UH, WE CAN TRANSITION THEM INTO THAT.

GOTCHA.

ANYBODY ELSE HAVE QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, COMMISSIONER STONE.

IS THERE A WAY YOU'RE ABLE TO DUMB THIS DOWN FOR ME? AND I KNOW THIS IS GOING TO SOUND BAD, BUT CAUSE LIKE YOU'RE SAYING FOR EXAMPLE, ASSETS RUN 10% OR LESS ANNUALLY.

I STILL DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND WHAT AN ASSET IS.

SO MAYBE HONESTLY, IF YOU COULD BACK UP AND GIVE ME THE FIFTH GRADE VERSION, THE GENERATOR THAT IS, UM, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW, UH, WHAT WE'RE TRYING IS FOR, UH, OUR CUSTOMERS NOT TO CHOOSE DIESEL THAT'S LIKE THAT THAT'S A DISASTER.

RIGHT? AND SO WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS HAVE THEM CHOOSE AN AFFORDABLE RESILIENCY SOLUTION, UM, THAT WE CAN CONNECT THEM WITH VENDORS THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD OWN THE ASSET AND OUR CUSTOMER WOULD BE LEASING IT FROM THEM.

SO IN THIS SCENARIO, FOR EXAMPLE, A GROCERY STORE WOULD HAVE BASICALLY A BACKUP GENERATOR, ESSENTIALLY THAT'S RUNNING OFF OF NATURAL GAS OR SOLAR, WHATEVER THE FUTURE BRINGS.

AND SO WHERE IS THIS 10% COMING FROM? IS THE IDEA THAT YOU GUYS ARE ALSO ABLE TO TAP BACK INTO IT, LIKE WHEN PEOPLE SAY, OKAY, THAT'S RIGHT.

SO ESSENTIALLY, YOU KNOW, OUR CUSTOMERS HAVE, UM, LOAD OBLIGATION, RIGHT? SO WE HAVE TO BE MEET OUR CUSTOMERS, UM, ENERGY NEEDS HERE IN AUSTIN ENERGY'S LOAD ZONE.

AND, UM, WE, PART OF OUR JOB IS TO PROTECT THE PRICE, UM, THAT THEY PAY IN THE WHOLESALE MARKET.

THESE ASSETS ARE IN THE WHOLESALE MARKET.

AND SO BY US BEING ABLE TO PARTNER WITH OUR CUSTOMER AND THE VENDOR, I NOW HAVE SOLE RIGHTS TO BE ABLE TO UTILIZE THAT ASSET IN THE WHOLESALE MARKET FOR EITHER INSULARY SERVICES, UH, FOR HEDGING FOR NEXT DAY, UM, ON A VERY, VERY HOT DAY.

UM, THIS IS, UH, ONCE AGAIN, COMPLETELY DREW MY, MY CUSTOMER.

SO THEY HAVE FOR THE IT'S THEIRS UNTIL THEY SAY, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN USE IT.

UM, IT'S THE EMERGENCY BACKUP GENERATION.

SO WHAT WE'VE SEEN OVER THE LAST 10, 12 YEARS IS THESE ASSETS GET USED BY PEOPLE WHO, UH, PUT THEM INTO THE WHOLESALE MARKET.

UM, AND THEN THE PERSON WHO, WHO IS LEASING IT OR OWNS THAT GENERATION, UM, IS, AND COULD BE LEASING IT BACK TO THE PERSON WHO'S IN THE WHOLESALE MARKET, BECAUSE THAT IS JUST A CUSTOMER, UH, OR LOAD.

UM, THEN, UM, THEY DON'T, THEY USE IT A VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF TIME.

SO THE REST OF THOSE, THOSE, THOSE DAYS OUT OF THE YEAR, UM, ARE THERE FOR US TO USE, UM, TO MEET OUR PORTFOLIO OF NEEDS, OUR POWER PORTFOLIO NEEDS AS FAR AS HEDGING IS CONCERNED, UH, AND THAT PRICE PROTECTION.

SO WHAT WE HAVE ESTIMATED OR WHAT WE, YOU KNOW, BY USING HISTORICAL DATA AND FORECASTING DATA, WE DO NOT NEED THAT ASSET VERY MUCH.

OUR OBJECTIVES ARE DIFFERENT THAN A VENDOR THAT WOULD COME INTO OUR SERVICE TERRITORY.

THEIR OBJECTIVES ARE MORE, UM, PROFIT DRIVEN AND OUR OBJECTIVES ARE MORE, UH, PRICE PROTECTION DRIVEN.

SO WE ESTIMATE THAT WE WOULD BE USING IT LESS THAN YOUR STANDARD VENDOR, THAT WOULD BE IN OUR, IN OUR SERVICE TERRITORY.

UH, COMMISSIONER WHITE.

ASSETS INTO THE TRANSMISSION SYSTEM.

UM, THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION, ERICA.

UM, I GUESS I, I ALSO BETTER UNDERSTAND, UM, SPECIFICALLY THE, UH, THE LINE BETWEEN WHAT IS LEGALLY REQUIRED.

CAUSE I UNDERSTAND THIS LEGISLATION, YOU KNOW, IT PASSED AUSTIN ENERGY, UH, YOU KNOW, THERE NEEDS TO RE RESPOND OR, OR ELSE SOMEBODY ELSE WILL.

SO, UM, GRANTED, I JUST AM NOT TOTALLY UNDERSTANDING WHERE THE LINE IS, IS THE LINE THAT AUSTIN ENERGY WOULD HAVE TO ALLOW FOR THE CONNECTION TO THE WHOLESALE MARKET AND PROCURE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF THE ENERGY FROM THESE ASSETS.

OR CAN YOU JUST LAY IT OUT AGAIN? SURE.

SO WE ARE REQUIRED TO CONNECT, UM, THESE

[01:15:01]

SHOULD THEY SUBMIT AN APPLICATION TO AUSTIN ENERGY, TO CON TO CONNECT INTO THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM OR INTO OUR TRANSMISSION SYSTEM? SO WE'RE REQUIRED TO DO THAT.

UM, AND THEN, UM, IF WE WANT THEM, IF, IF, IF WE, WE HAVE A CHOICE TO SAY, WELL, I CAN EITHER BE THE QUALIFIED SCHEDULING ENTITY AND FACILITATE THIS, UM, ACTIVITY IN THE WHOLESALE MARKET.

UM, AND I, AND I CAN ALSO BE PART OF THAT.

I CAN BE THE ONE THAT MANAGES THAT GENERATION IN THE WHOLESALE MARKET.

IF I DON'T MANAGE THE GENERATION IN THE WHOLESALE MARKET IN MA IN AUSTIN ENERGY'S LOAD ZONE, SOMEONE ELSE WILL, AND THEY WILL RUN IT TO MEET THEIR OBJECTIVES.

AND WHAT WE ARE COMMUNICATING THROUGH THIS PROGRAM IS, IS THAT WE ARE, OUR OBJECTIVES, UM, ARE DIFFERENT THAN VENDOR OBJECTIVES THAT ARE COMING, COMING IN TO OPTIMIZE FOR PURE PROFIT.

WE CAN COME IN AND WE, WE, WE MANAGE IT FOR PRICE PROTECTION.

SO, UM, WE SEE THIS AS A WAY TO BE ABLE TO HAVE TRANSPARENCY IN OUR, IN OUR MARKET OR IN OUR LOAD ZONE, AS WELL AS PROVIDE THAT PRICE PROTECTION TO OUR CUSTOMERS.

SO, UH, YEAH, I UNDERSTAND, UH, IT SOUNDS LIKE AUSTIN ENERGY WOULD BE THE, THE, UM, QUALIFIED SCHEDULING ENTITY IN THIS CASE AND, UM, WOULD MAKE THOSE DECISIONS.

SO DOES THAT MEAN, YOU KNOW, THE, THE YOU, OR WHOEVER WOULD HAVE, YOU KNOW, FULL CONTROL OVER WHEN TO RUN THOSE ASSETS, UH, OUTSIDE OF THOSE TIMES THAT THEY ARE NEEDED FOR EMERGENCY BACKUP? THAT'S CORRECT.

SO, SO THE, THE PROGRAM, UM, ALLOWS FOR OUR CUSTOMER TO HAVE TO USE IT AS THEY SEE FIT, RIGHT.

IT IS, IT IS THERE FOR THEIR BACKUP AND THEN IF THEY'RE NOT USING IT, THEN AUSTIN ENERGY RETAINS THE REST OF THAT CONTROL.

SO THERE'S NOT A MINIMUM AMOUNT THAT AUSTIN ENERGY WOULD HAVE TO RUN THESE ASSETS.

THAT'S NOT HOW THE, UM, THE, THAT IS NOT HOW THE CONTRACTS ARE CONSTRUCTED.

UM, THERE'S NOT A MINIMUM.

UM, THAT'S GOOD TO HEAR.

AND I ASSUME YOU'RE TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION THE, THE RESOURCE PLAN, THE RESOURCE GENERATION AND CLIMATE PROTECTION PLAN TO 2030.

IS THAT BEEN PART OF THE CONSIDERATION AND HOW YOU MOVE FORWARD WITH US? UH, ABSOLUTELY.

UM, THE, UH, AUSTIN ENERGY RESOURCE GENERATION AND CLIMATE PROTECTION PLAN TO 2030, UH, ALLOWS FOR AUSTIN ENERGY, UH, TO PROVISION, UH, EMERGENCY BACKUP GENERATION FOR CRITICAL FACILITIES.

UM, THAT'S ON PAGE TWO, FOOTNOTE SEVEN, AND THAT WAS PUT THERE FOR, YEAH.

SO, UM, UH, SO THAT HAS BEEN TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION, UM, WHEN, UM, MANAGING THIS PROGRAM.

LOAD WAS SHED DURING URI AND, UM, OUR CUSTOMERS HAVE SERIOUS CONCERNS, HAVE SERIOUS COSTS THAT THEY HAVE TO, UM, PROTECT.

UM, WAS JUST OUT OF CURIOSITY, WAS PROVIDING, UM, GENERATION FOR CRITICAL FACILITIES THAT WERE NOT PART OF THE CITY, THE INTENTION WITH THAT FOOTNOTE THERE, THAT, FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE THAT WERE NOT PART OF THE CITY, I'M NOT SURE WHERE YOU'RE GOING.

UH, YEAH.

UH, LIKE ASIDE FROM, I MEAN, YEAH, I HAVE TO ADMIT THAT, LIKE WE, I MEAN, WE DIDN'T REALLY DISCUSS THAT, UM, IN THAT PROCESS.

UH, AND I JUST KIND OF ASSUMED THAT IT WAS LIKE AUSTIN ENERGIES OR THE CITY'S CRITICAL FACILITIES.

UM, I REALIZED THAT THE STATE HAS NOW DEFINED THESE AS CRITICAL FACILITIES.

UM, I'M JUST WONDERING WHAT YOUR, UM, YEAH, W I MEAN, I THINK REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE RESOURCE PLAN IS SAYS, UH, YOU'LL HAVE TO DO SOMETHING IN RESPONSE FOR, IT MAKES SENSE FOR YOU ALL TO DO SOMETHING IN RESPONSE TO THIS LEGISLATION.

I'M, I'M JUST WONDERING WHAT YOUR THOUGHTS WERE ON THAT, THAT FOOTNOTE, WHEN I WAS PUT IN THERE WAS, WAS PROVIDING GENERATION TO PRIVATE ENTITIES, SOMETHING THAT WAS CONTEMPLATED.

SO THE GENERATION PLAN, UM, UH, I BELIEVE IS WRITTEN, UM, FOR OUR CUSTOMERS AND IT, IT, IT IS, IT EMBODIES WHAT OUR CUSTOMERS WANTS AND NEEDS ARE.

UM, SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT CRITICAL FACILITIES, WE'RE LOOKING AT, UM, CRITICAL LOAD, UM, AND, UH, YOU KNOW, CRITICAL

[01:20:01]

AND, UM, THAT'S WHAT THIS, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT'S REALLY THE INTENT OF, UM, BEING ABLE TO, TO WRITE THAT PROVISION.

WELL, UH, I WISH I HAD PAID MORE ATTENTION TO THAT.

UM, OBVIOUSLY, UM, DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT ASSUMPTIONS THERE, BUT, UH, KIND OF WATER UNDER THE BRIDGE, I GUESS.

UM, I AM WONDERING IN TERMS OF, UM, TRYING TO NUDGE ENTITIES IN THE DIRECTION OF SOLAR AND STORAGE, INSTEAD OF, YOU KNOW, UM, GETTING THESE, THESE NEW GENERATORS THAT WILL, I THINK PROBABLY STICK AROUND ONCE THEY'RE IN PLACE.

YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S KIND OF UNLIKELY THAT THEY'RE GONNA, YOU KNOW, SWAP THEM OUT, UM, WITHOUT A REAL REASON TO DO SO.

UM, SO IT SEEMS LIKE, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO GET THEM TO MOVE IN THAT DIRECTION NOW, AS OPPOSED TO THINKING OF IT AS A, YOU KNOW, FUTURE THING WOULD, IT WOULD HAVE SOME REAL VALUE.

SO I'M JUST WONDERING IF, IF YOU'VE CONSIDERED OPPORTUNITY PERHAPS TO, UM, YOU KNOW, PUT SOME OF THOSE CAUSED STUDENTS TO SAY COMMUNITY SOLAR PROGRAM, IF, YOU KNOW, THE SOLAR COULD BE USED FOR THAT PURPOSE DURING, YOU KNOW, NON-EMERGENCY CONDITIONS, IF HAVE YOU Y'ALL LOOKED AT ANY OF, UM, YOU KNOW, KIND OF, I GUESS, CROSS PROGRAMMATIC OPTIONS THAT MIGHT MOVE FOLKS IN THE DIRECTION OF RENEWABLE ENERGY INSTEAD OF MORE FOSSIL FUELS.

SO WE, UM, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THE, THE, THE DRIVER OF THIS PROGRAM IS IT'S DRIVEN BY OUR CUSTOMERS AND, UM, WE LISTENED TO, YOU KNOW, KIND OF THEIR NEEDS AND AS WELL AS THEIR WANTS, UM, MANY OF OUR CUSTOMERS DO WANT, UM, UH, TO BE AS SUSTAINABLE AS POSSIBLE.

UM, THE, THE ISSUE RIGHT NOW WITH WHERE SOLAR AND STORAGE IS, IS IT'S, IT ISN'T, UM, IT CAN'T PROVIDE THAT RESILIENCY LONG ENOUGH TO MEET THEIR NEEDS, UM, FOR THE COST, UH, THAT IT'S AT, OR, YOU KNOW, JUST THAT TECHNOLOGY ISN'T THERE YET, UH, TO MEET THEIR NEEDS.

SO, UM, I WILL, I WILL TELL YOU THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, WE, WE LOOK AT WHETHER IT'S RENEWABLE GAS, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, THEY, THEY ARE LOOK THEY'RE ACTIVELY, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, AWARE OF WHERE THOSE MARKETS ARE.

UM, AND, UM, YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T THINK IT'S, IT'S, I DON'T THINK IT IS A BIG LEAP FOR THEM TO TRANSITION, UM, YOU KNOW, GIVEN, UM, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW WE'RE, WE'RE KIND OF SEEING A BUBBLE COME BACK UP WITH, UH, SOLAR WAS TAKING SUCH A, SUCH A, SUCH A DOWNWARD, YOU KNOW, A WONDERFUL TRAJECTORY AND, YOU KNOW, SOME THINGS HAVE CHANGED OBVIOUSLY IN THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS.

UM, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE WON'T BE BACK TO THAT STATE.

SO WE ALWAYS TALK TO OUR CUSTOMERS IN A LONGTERM TYPE PLANNING HORIZON.

UM, AND SO, UH, YOU KNOW, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE DISCUSS.

UM, BUT IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT THEY'RE INTERESTED IN RIGHT NOW.

UH, SO, UM, UH, WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE KEEPING ALWAYS THAT DISCUSSION OPEN, UH, TO KEEP THEIR SOLUTION, UM, AS SUSTAINABLE AS POSSIBLE.

UM, BUT AGAIN, UM, YOU KNOW, AFFORDABILITY IS A, IS, IS A, IS A KEY COMPONENT HERE.

SO I HEARD TWO THINGS AND I GUESS I HAVE QUESTIONS ON BOTH.

ONE WAS THE DURATION, WHAT IS THE DURATION THAT THEY, YOU KNOW, WOULD CONSIDER LIKE A MINIMUM, YOU KNOW, TO, TO MEET THEIR NEEDS WHEN YOU, ARE YOU, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT LIKE A CONTRACT TERM OR W WHAT'D YOU SAY NO FROM THAT FROM A TECHNOLOGICAL STAND? I MEAN, I ASSUMED THAT'S WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT WHEN YOU, YOU SAID THAT, UM, SOLAR AND STORAGE CON COULDN'T MEET THEIR NEEDS.

UH, MAYBE, MAYBE I JUST MISSED HER.

THE STORM WAS FIVE, SIX DAYS, SO MULTIPLY THAT TIMES 24 HOURS.

AND SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT AT THIS POINT, THESE FACILITIES DON'T, IS IT THAT THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH ROOF SPACE FOR ENOUGH SOLAR TO RECHARGE THEIR BATTERIES? IS THAT YES.

THAT'S THAT, THAT IT'S NOT, YEAH, IT'S NOT REASONABLE FOR THEM TO EXPECT ON SIT IN A SITUATION THAT THEY EXPERIENCED, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE OVER A YEAR AGO WHERE THERE WOULD BE NO SUN AND THAT THEY WOULD BE RELYING ON THAT IT'S NOT ADEQUATE FOR THEIR NEEDS.

THANKS, MR. HARMON.

[01:25:03]

UM, ERICA, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE PRESENTATION AND IT'S, UH, IT'S, IT'S REALLY A FASCINATING PROGRAM AND I KNOW A LOT TO THINK ABOUT WITH IT.

UM, I THINK I EVEN ACTUALLY TOUCHED ON SOME OF THE QUESTIONS THAT I HAD, BUT JUST MAYBE I'LL ASK FOR CLARIFICATION.

UM, AND THE PRESENTATION, UM, THE BULLET SAYS THE LEGISLATION MENTIONED SPECIFICALLY GROCERY AND FOOD SUPPLY CHAIN STORES.

UM, I KNOW YOU'VE, YOU'VE TALKED AT LENGTH ABOUT YOUR CUSTOMERS KIND OF AT LARGE.

IS, IS THIS A PROGRAM TARGETED SPECIFICALLY FOR GROCERY? I KNOW YOU USED AN HEB EXAMPLE, BUT IS IT SPECIFICALLY GROCERY? IS IT ALL AVAILABLE TO ALL AES COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS? WE, WE HAVE ONLY APPROVED, UH, THE PROGRAM FOR CRITICAL LOAD, AND THAT IS A DEFINITION THAT ERCOT PROVIDES.

SO IT'S CRITICAL, IT'S OUR CRITICAL CUSTOMERS.

UM, AND THE REASON I WANTED TO ASK THAT QUESTION, AND I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS WHERE CABLE WAS HEADED, BUT I WAS WONDERING IF THIS, UM, PROGRAM COULD BE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR PERHAPS, UM, YOU KNOW, COMMUNITY RESILIENCE, HUBS, UM, THAT COULD BE DISTRIBUTED THROUGHOUT THE CITY IF THE, IF THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY IN THE FUTURE, UM, WHICH I APPRECIATE MEANS THAT THE, YOU KNOW, YOUR, YOUR CUSTOMERS IN THAT CASE WOULD NEED TO, TO VALUE, UM, THE, THAT RESILIENCE, UM, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT'S BEING CONSIDERED OR WHERE YOU COULD SEE? YEAH, WE'VE BEEN TALKING, UH, TO THE SUSTAINABILITY OFFICE, UM, ABOUT, UM, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO PARTNER WITH THEM ON A SOLUTION WHERE, UM, WE COULD, UH, USE THIS WITH, FOR THE RESILIENCY HUBS, UH, RIGHT NOW WE'RE, UM, KIND OF, UH, TRYING TO KIND OF GET THIS FIRST STEP UNDERWAY BECAUSE, UH, ONCE THINGS ARE, ONCE THESE INTERCONNECTION REQUESTS ARE SUBMITTED, WE ONLY HAVE, WE HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME THAT WE HAVE TO TURN THEM AROUND.

UH, SO THAT'S WHY, UM, WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON KIND OF OUR PHASE ONE, BUT, UH, YES, WE HAVE BEEN TALKING TO THE SUSTAINABILITY OFFICE ABOUT POTENTIALLY WORKING WITH THEM ON SOME SOLUTIONS FOR THE RESILIENCY HUBS.

AND THEN ONE FINAL, JUST CLARIFICATION FOR MY UNDERSTANDING QUESTION.

UM, WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT THE PROGRAM BENEFITS FOR THE PORTFOLIO PORTFOLIO AND THE COST SAVINGS AND THE, THE FOR CP REDUCTION, UM, AS EXAMPLE, ARE THOSE COST SAVINGS.

THAT'S NOT THOSE AREN'T BEING REALIZED JUST BY THE CUSTOMER OR THE HOST FACILITY, BUT THAT'S REALLY A TRYING TO KEEP THE, TRYING TO AVOID BUYING MORE EXPENSIVE POWER FROM THE WHOLESALE MARKET.

IS THAT RIGHT? IT'S REALLY, UM, USING, UH, IS ASSETS THAT ARE GOING TO BE IN OUR SERVICE TERRITORY, UH, TO, TO PROVIDE THE PROTECTION TO OUR CUSTOMERS AT TIMES THAT WE NEED THEM, UH, AS WELL AS ANCILLARY SERVICES.

SO, UM, SO YOU ARE CORRECT IT, SO THEN WE WOULDN'T BE BUYING THAT PROTECTION MORE EXPENSIVELY, UM, SOMEWHERE ELSE.

I APPRECIATE THE PRESENTATION AND THE VERIFICATION, MR. ROBBINS, UM, TWO QUESTIONS DEED.

DO YOU HAVE A MEGAWATT GOAL? UH, AND ARE YOU ALSO MOVING IN THE DIRECTION OF AGGREGATING THE SMALL RESIDENTIAL GENERATORS THAT ARE BEING BUILT NOW BEING INSTALLED NOW? SO, UM, WE HAVE A CAP, SO WE HAVE IT UP TO FOUR, UM, THE BEHIND THE METER, AS WELL AS THE, IN FRONT OF THE METER.

UM, AND, UM, WE HAVE NOT GOTTEN DOWN TO THE RESIDENTIAL LEVEL YET.

WHAT IS THE MEGAWATT LEVEL THAT YOU'RE AIMING TOWARDS ON COMMERCIAL IT'S, UH, 25 MEGAWATTS FOR, UM, THE SMALLER, UH, BEHIND THE METERS, AND THEN IT'S 200 FOR OUR LARGER INDUSTRIAL CUSTOMERS THAT ARE LOOKING FOR THIS TYPE OF PROTECTION.

IT MIGHT BE 50 FOR THE BEHIND THE METER.

I'M SORRY, PAULA.

I'LL, I'LL CLARIFY THAT.

I BELIEVE IT'S 25 50 I'LL I'LL I'LL CONFIRM THAT COMMISSIONER JOHNSON, UH, THE, OF, ARE YOU, DO YOU STILL HAVE YOUR HAND, DID YOU RAISE YOUR HAND AGAIN FIRST ON THE, ON THE, GO AHEAD.

I DO HAVE A QUESTION, BUT YOU GO FOR IT.

EVERYTHING YOU'VE DESCRIBED AND THE POWER NEEDS OF THESE NOW DEFINED CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE OR CRITICAL CUSTOMER LOADS, UM, AND THAT IN MANY OF THEM, ESPECIALLY BIGGER ONES WOULD BE, UH, PRESUMABLY NATURAL GAS OR SOMETHING ELSE SIMILAR.

UM, YEAH, YOU KNOW, THIS IS SUPER INTERESTING IN SOME WAYS, UM, I, I'M CURIOUS, UH, GIVEN, YOU KNOW, THE, OR GIVEN

[01:30:01]

UM, THE DO Y'ALL HAVE ANY IDEAS OF, OF CARBON EMISSION IMPACTS FROM THAT AND HOW THAT COULD AFFECT OUR, OUR GOALS AND THE RESOURCE PLAN OR THE CLIMATE PLAN.

UH, AND THEN SECONDARILY GIVEN THOSE POTENTIAL CARBON IMPACTS, ARE THERE, IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION OR INTEREST IN BUYING OFFSETS OR THINGS LIKE THAT TO, TO HELP MITIGATE EX? SURE.

SO, UM, WE, UH, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE, UH, AN IDEA OF IF, IF, IF THE PROGRAM WERE AT FULL CAPACITY, RIGHT, BECAUSE WE HAVE AN UP TO NUMBER AND WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO GO, YOU KNOW, WE, WE, WE BASICALLY HAVE IDENTIFIED CUSTOMERS THAT ARE SEEKING THIS.

SO THE, AGAIN, THIS IS CUSTOMER DRIVEN.

UM, AND WE, WE, WE KNOW THE, THE EMISSIONS THAT GIVEN THAT THE GENERATORS THAT, THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT, DEPENDING ON WHAT THEY CHOOSE, UM, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE AN IDEA OF WHAT, OF WHAT THAT WILL, UM, WHAT THAT WILL ADMIT.

UM, WE CURRENTLY, UM, ARE VERY TRANSPARENT ABOUT THE EMISSIONS, UM, THAT WE HAVE IN OUR PORTFOLIO.

AND, UM, WE WILL BE WRAPPING THIS INTO THAT PORTFOLIO, UM, OBVIOUSLY ON A ROLLED UP BASIS.

WE WON'T BE, UH, TALKING ABOUT A SPECIFIC CUSTOMER, BUT WE'LL BE ROLLING IT UP AS TO THE TWO DIFFERENT PROGRAMS THAT WE HAVE.

UM, BECAUSE WE, UM, UH, ARE DOING THAT WITH OUR REACH PROGRAM RIGHT NOW.

UH, WE ACTUALLY REPORT, UM, EMISSIONS ON BOTH OUR, UM, ON ALL OF OUR FOSSIL FUEL AND FOSSIL FUEL UNITS.

AND SO WOULD BE A PART OF THAT.

THANKS FOR CLARIFYING.

CAN YOU GIVE US A CURRENT ESTIMATE OF WHAT THE GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS WOULD BE IF IT WERE AT CAPACITY, THIS PROGRAM? I DON'T HAVE THAT NUMBER ON ME.

HER POOPS ON IMPACT OF THIS.

HOPEFULLY IT, CAN YOU FOLLOW UP AND SEND THAT TO THE COMMISSION? ABSOLUTELY.

CAN I ASK MY OTHER QUESTION? ARE YOU DONE SHANE? YEAH, GO FOR IT.

OH, NO WORRIES.

UM, OKAY.

I HEARD YOU MENTIONED THAT THIS WAS OPEN TO ALL CRITICAL LOAD CUSTOMERS, AND I, I KNOW THAT ENCOMPASSES A NUMBER OF OTHER TYPES OF CUSTOMERS BEYOND GROCERY STORES.

UM, THE LEGISLATION ONLY AFFECTED GROCERY STORES, RIGHT.

OR GROCERY STORES, OR CAN YOU CONTINUE EXPLAINING WHAT EXACTLY WHAT THE LAW, THE LEGAL LINE IS AND WHY AUSTIN ENERGY MIGHT BE GOING BEYOND IT? SO OUR CUSTOMERS, UM, WENT TO SEEK THIS LEGISLATION BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T ABLE TO DO IT IN OUR SERVICE TERRITORY.

SO THAT'S STEP NUMBER ONE, RIGHT? THEY NEEDED THIS.

AND SO THEY WENT AND HAD THIS WRITTEN INTO LEGISLATION.

WE KNOW THAT OUR CUSTOMERS NEED THIS TYPE OF RESILIENCY.

SO BEFORE THEY GO AND CONTINUE TO OPEN UP THAT DOOR IN OUR SERVICE TERRITORY, UH, WE'RE INTERESTED IN WORKING WITH THEM TO PROVIDE THEM THE SERVICE THEY NEED.

IF THEY ARE GOING TO TURN AROUND AND SAY, AUSTIN RG CAN, CANNOT PROVIDE US THE SERVICE WE NEED, THEN THAT DOES NOT LOOK GOOD FOR US.

SO THAT IS OUR DECISION IN STRIKING A BALANCE BETWEEN JUST TALKING TO THE GROCERY STORES, UM, AND SHUTTING EVERYBODY ELSE OUT, UM, TO SAYING, WE'RE GOING TO TALK TO THE CRITICAL LOAD.

THEY ARE GOOD CUSTOMERS, THEY NEED THIS TYPE OF PRODUCT, AND WE CAN HELP THEM, UH, IN A MANAGEABLE WAY, UH, TO OBTAIN IT.

SO IT IS, UM, UH, IT'S A STRATEGIC MOVE.

SO THEN, UH, WE MAINTAIN, UM, THESE CUSTOMERS, UM, YOU KNOW, IN A WAY THAT, UH, KEEPS THEM, UH, HAPPY AND, AND, YOU KNOW, PRODUCTIVE IN OUR SERVICE TERRITORY.

I HEAR THAT.

IT JUST SEEMS LIKE IF YOU HAVE THE PROGRAM SET UP AND IF THEY DECIDE TO LEGISLATE ASKING, YOU KNOW, REQUIRING OTHER, UM, CUSTOMERS BEING INCLUDED, THAT THEN THEY COULD BE INCLUDED AT THAT TIME.

I I'LL JUST BE STRAIGHTFORWARD.

I'M, I'M PRETTY CONCERNED ABOUT THE POTENTIAL MAGNITUDE OF THIS PROGRAM.

UM, SO I DO HOPE YOU, UM, CAN GET US, UM, THE, YOU KNOW, KIND OF FULL POTENTIAL MEGAWATTS AND GREENHOUSE STAFFS AND, AND, AND LOCAL, UH, OR HERE AT

[01:35:01]

BECAUSE, UH, I MEAN, I THINK AS WE ALL KIND OF REALIZE THERE'S A LARGE NUMBER OF, YOU KNOW, QUOTE, CRITICAL FACILITIES, AND I, I'M NOT SAYING THAT THEY'RE NOT IMPORTANT, UH, AND THAT WE DON'T NEED TO FIND WAYS TO, UM, GET, UH, ALLOW THEM TO FUNCTION DURING TIMES OF EMERGENCY.

I AM SUPPORTIVE OF THAT.

UM, IT JUST, I DEFINITELY AM HAVING SOME START ON ABOUT HOW THIS FITS IN WITH OUR CLIMATE GOALS AND ALSO JUST THE, THE LOCAL AIR POLLUTION THAT WILL COME IF ALL CRITICAL FACILITIES DECIDE TO, UM, PUT IN GENERATORS.

AND I DO APPRECIATE THAT YOU'LL ARE, UM, THE GOAL OR AT LEAST, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO KEEP THEM AWAY FROM DIESEL, WHICH WOULD, WOULD, AS YOU, I THINK PUT, YOU KNOW, BE A DISASTER FOR LOCAL AIR POLLUTION.

UM, BUT YOU KNOW, IT JUST, UM, I, I, I UNDERSTAND THE, KIND OF THE BALANCE YOU'RE TRYING TO STRIKE.

I JUST WANT TO SHARE THAT AS A CONCERN UNDERSTOOD, WHAT'S YOUR SON DO DO THESE CUSTOMERS WITHIN THIS PROGRAM, ARE THEY GETTING ANY KIND OF REBATE MONEY OR INCENTIVE FROM, UH, AUSTIN ENERGY AS A RESULT OF PARTICIPATING IN THIS? OR IS IT JUST THE INTRODUCTION TO A GENERATOR MANUFACTURER? ESSENTIALLY, AUSTIN ENERGY IS PAYING A, A TYPE OF DISPATCH, UH, OPTION PREMIUM SO THEY CAN ACCESS THE, THE GENERATION.

YOU'RE USING THOSE BIGGER WORDS AGAIN, BASICALLY.

UM, WE'RE, WE'RE SAYING, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO USE THAT GENERATOR WHEN OUR LOAD NEEDS IT PRICE PROTECTION.

SO WE ARE, WE'RE, WE'RE PAYING A FEE FOR THAT, AND THAT HELPS THE CUSTOMER NOT PAY AS HIGH FOR FEET TO LEASE, UM, THAT GENERATOR.

AND THIS IS REALLY ANTICIPATED TO BE USED ONLY IN CASES WHERE YOU SEE A DRAMATIC INCREASE IN LOAD TO THE POINT WHERE YOU'RE AFRAID THAT MARKET PRICES WILL GET OUT OF HAND.

AND SO THIS IS YOUR WAY TO BE ABLE TO STEP IN AND TRY TO HELP MITIGATE THAT A LITTLE BIT.

SO IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO BE RUNNING ALL THE TIME.

SO AT LEAST FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, THE IDEA THAT OCCASIONALLY SOMEBODY IS GOING TO FIRE UP A NATURAL GAS GENERATOR IN ORDER TO KEEP THE LIGHTS ON IN THEIR STORE.

BECAUSE LIKE YESTERDAY, FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAD THE, A HEB THAT WAS OVER AT BURNET AND, UH, BURN IT.

AND WHAT DOES THAT BURN IT AND CANUCK GIVE OR TAKE, UH, THEY LOST THEIR POWER YESTERDAY.

AND SO IMAGINE WHAT IT COSTS THEM TO THROW THINGS OUT BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE BACKUP GENERATION APPARENTLY AT THAT LOCATION.

UM, SO I DON'T THINK I WOULD BE TOO UPSET IF SOMEBODY SAID THAT WE'RE GOING TO TURN THIS THING ON FOR TWO HOURS WHILE AUSTIN ENERGY FIX IS WHATEVER THE PROBLEM MIGHT HAVE BEEN.

WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO BE CONTINUOUSLY ON AND RUNNING.

NOW, IF THAT WERE THE CASE, THEN I WOULD PROBABLY JUMP RIGHT ON BOARD WITH MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS AND BE ASKING A LOT MORE QUESTIONS.

BUT TO ME IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE IT'S A BIG PROBLEM.

TO BE, UH, SO ERICA, MAYBE IF YOU COULD CLARIFY HERE, THIS IS NOT JUST FOR BACKUP POWER.

WE'RE SAYING THAT THE CUSTOMER CAN USE IT WHEN THEY NEED BACKUP POWER, BUT YOU GUYS WILL USE IT BASED ON MARKET CONDITIONS.

UH, EVEN THOUGH YOU COULD THEORETICALLY SOURCE THE POWER SOMEWHERE ELSE.

SO THAT'S CORRECT.

WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS, IS THAT WE, THE CUSTOMERS CAN BE USING IT FOR BACKUP GENERATION, WHICH TYPICALLY IS A VERY, VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF TIME ON TOP OF THAT.

WE'RE PAYING TO ACCESS THAT GENERATION.

AND AS YOU SAW IN THE SLIDES, WE FORECAST THAT WE WILL ONLY BE USING IT 10% OF THE 10% OF THE TIME IN THE YEAR.

SO NOT MANY HOURS DO WE REQUIRE, OR DOES THE MARKET MANIFEST HIGH PRICES OR EVEN, UM, SOME OF THE, UH, PRICE SEPARATION THAT I'VE TALKED ABOUT.

IT DOESN'T HAPPEN VERY OFTEN, BUT WHEN IT DOES HAPPEN, IT'S EXPENSIVE.

AND THE PROBLEM WITH, UM, ME SEEKING IT IN ANOTHER WAY IN THE MARKET IS IT CAN BE A LOT MORE EXPENSIVE BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHEN IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

SO I NEED TO HAVE THAT PROTECTION ALL THE TIME, AS OPPOSED TO HAVING THE ASSET, NOT RUNNING, SITTING THERE.

AND THEN WHEN THAT, UH, THAT, UH, MARKET EVENT OCCURS, THEN I'M USING IT.

SO WE'VE GONE BACK HISTORICALLY, WE HAVE GONE BACK AND SEEING HOW OUR POWER PORTFOLIO PORT FOR PERFORMS, AND WE HAVE CALCULATED THAT THAT'S HOW OFTEN WE WILL NEED THOSE ASSETS THING IS, IS WHEN YOU NEED THEM.

THEY, THEY REALLY PROVIDE A LOT OF VALUE.

WE JUST DON'T NEED THEM VERY MUCH.

THAT NEEDS A BACKUP POWER, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THE STORM EVENT HAPPENS FOR FOUR OR FIVE DAYS AND SOLAR AND STORAGE DOESN'T HAVE THE DURATION TO MEET THAT.

SO I GUESS THAT, THAT THE ISSUE, IT SEEMS LIKE HERE TO ME IS THAT I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT, YOU KNOW, THE CUSTOMER

[01:40:01]

RIGHT? SURE.

BUT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MARKET CONDITIONS, UH, THESE ARE NOT EVENTS THAT LASTS FOR FOR SIX DAYS, 24 HOURS, STRAIGHT 15 MINUTES.

EXACTLY.

SO WHEN YOU'RE PAYING THIS FEE TO THE CUSTOMER, UH, FOR USE OF THEIR GENERATOR DURING THE MARKET CONDITION, YOU ARE ESSENTIALLY SUBSIDIZING THEIR GAS GENERATION WHEN YOU COULD BE TAKING THAT AND PROCURING SOLAR PLUS STORAGE, WHICH WILL MEET YOUR, YOU KNOW, 15, 30 MINUTE DURATIONS THAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR NECESSARILY.

UM, UH, BECAUSE THE S THE S THE, THE SOLAR AND STORAGE, ISN'T GONNA BE THERE EXACTLY WHEN I NEEDED, UM, IT DOESN'T PROVIDE THE ANCILLARY SERVICE SUPPORT THAT I NEED.

UM, AND THE PRICE DIFFERENCE IS QUITE LARGE.

SO THESE ASSETS, UM, THAT WE'RE BASICALLY SAYING THESE ASSETS ARE GONNA COME INTO MY SERVICE TERRITORY, I ALREADY KNOW THEY'RE GOING TO BE HERE.

UM, SO I AM, UH, WANTING TO OPTIMIZE THAT AND SAY, I AM GOING TO PAY A MUCH LOWER FEE THAN I WOULD HAVE TO PAY SOMEWHERE ELSE, WHETHER IT'S ANOTHER TECHNOLOGY, OR IT'S ANOTHER HEDGE, LIKE WITH A BANK OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THIS IS A MUCH MORE ECONOMICAL WAY, UM, FOR THE REST OF OUR PORTFOLIO, TO BE ABLE TO BENEFIT FROM SOMETHING THAT IS ALREADY GOING TO BE IN MY MARKET, BECAUSE HEB HASN'T ALL OVER THE STATE AND THEY NEED THEM IN NON OPT-IN TERRITORIES.

SO I WANT TO BE ABLE TO WORK WITH THAT CUSTOMER SO THAT I CAN, UM, BE ABLE TO KIND OF MAKE THE BEST RELATIONSHIP AS POSSIBLE AND MINIMIZE THE AMOUNT OF TIME IF I DON'T DO THAT, THEN THEY'LL COME.

THE NOTE, THOSE ASSETS WILL BE IN OUR SERVICE TERRITORY, AND THEY'RE GOING TO RUN THEM MORE THAN, THAN I WILL.

SO NOBODY IS BETTER OFF, BUT IF WE'RE CONTROLLING THEM, THEN WE'RE THE ONES THAT GET TO DECIDE, YOU KNOW, WHEN TO USE THEM FOR PRICE PROTECTION, UH, NOT NECESSARILY FOR, UH, RUNNING THEM, SELLING OPTIONS ON THEM, UH, YOU KNOW, RUNNING THEM IN THE MARKET ALL THE TIME.

THAT'S NOT WHAT OUR VALUE PROPOSITION IS.

UH, WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO, UH, MAKE SURE WE CAN PROVIDE THIS TO CRITICAL LOAD CUSTOMERS, CUSTOMERS THAT ARE HOSPITALS, FIRE STATIONS, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THINGS THAT AREN'T JUST GROCERY STORES, RIGHT.

UM, SO ALL OF THESE TYPES OF FACILITIES THAT NEED TO BE AVAILABLE FOR OUR ENTIRE COMMUNITY, UM, THEY'RE LOOKING FOR THIS SOLUTION.

UH, SO WE ARE TRYING TO FACILITATE THAT BECAUSE I KNOW I HAVE TO, I DON'T HAVE A CHOICE.

UM, AND IF I AM DIFFICULT WITH THOSE CUSTOMERS THAT DIDN'T GET ON THE, THE LEGISLATION, THEN I'M JUST ASKING FOR THEM TO GO BACK AND MAKE SURE THAT THAT DOOR OPENS EVEN WIDER.

SO TRYING TO WORK WITH OUR CUSTOMERS AND PROVIDE REALLY THE BEST SOLUTION POSSIBLE, GIVEN ALL THE CONSTRAINTS, YOU KNOW, THAT WE, WE FACE, UH, COMMISSIONER JOHNSON.

UH, OH, I, I THINK I JUST DIDN'T PUT MY HAND DOWN.

UM, YOU, THE, UM, A FEE THAT YOU'RE PAYING, UH, DO YOU HAVE ACCESS, CAN YOU TELL US HOW MUCH THAT FEE IS? IT'S, IT'S A, IT'S A PRICE THAT DEPENDS ON THE CUSTOMER.

SO I DON'T, IT'S A CONFIDENTIAL NUMBER THAT REALLY IS, IT'S A, IT'S AN, A CONTRACT.

SO IT'S, IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE CAN PUBLISH.

CAN YOU PUBLISH IT? YOU SAYING THAT IT VARIES DEPENDING ON EACH CUSTOMER OR THAT THIS PROGRAM IS GOING TO HAVE A SET SCHEDULE OF FEES, BUT THE, NO, WE'RE LOOKING SO MANY THAT'S IN THE LARGER, UH, PROGRAM, THE, THE, THE, FOR THE, IN FRONT OF THE, IN FRONT OF THE METER, THOSE ARE NEGOTIATED BY CUSTOMER.

UM, AND THEN, UH, FOR THE SMALLER, THAT IS, THAT IS A STANDARD FEE FOR THE BEHIND THAT THOSE, THE, THIS, THE GROCERY STORES AND SO FORTH, THAT'S A STANDARDIZED NUMBER.

UM, BUT THAT'S A CONFIDENTIAL NUMBER THAT WE'RE IN THE WHOLESALE MARKET.

SO I COMPETE IN THE WHOLESALE MARKET LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE IN ERCOT, SO THAT THAT'S, THAT'S A CONTRACTUALLY, UM,

[01:45:01]

PROTECTED, UH, VALUE.

SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT, I MEAN, THE CUSTOMER WILL HAVE TO KNOW THAT HOW, HOW ARE YOU AT, HOW ARE WE HAVING CONVERSATION? I DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW THAT WORKS.

HOW ARE YOU BUILDING A PROGRAM WHERE THE CUSTOMER DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE PAYING THE CUSTOMER KNOWS.

THE CUSTOMER IS VERY AWARE.

UM, I GUESS I FIND THAT A LITTLE CONCERNING THAT THIS IS AN UNKNOWN AMOUNT OF MONEY BEING SPENT AS JONATHAN POINTED OUT TO, TO SUBSIDIZE NATURAL GAS GENERATION.

AND, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE, YOU'RE TELLING US THE, THE THAT'S BEEN DONE BECAUSE THE SOLAR AND STORAGE SOLUTION IN PART IS TOO EXPENSIVE, BUT THAT SOLUTION DOES ALIGN WITH OUR POLICY GOALS.

UM, I DUNNO, I JUST, UM, IT'S TOO EXPENSIVE FOR OUR CUSTOMERS, FOR WHICH CUSTOMERS, FOR THE CUSTOMERS THAT ARE INTERESTED IN RESILIENCY.

SO I GUESS THAT'S WHERE I'M, I'M JUST KIND OF, UM, I, I UNDERSTAND THAT THAT, THAT THEY MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO, OR WILLING TO PAY THAT FULL AMOUNT, BUT GIVEN THAT THERE ARE POLICY OBJECTIVES THAT SHOULD NUDGE THE UTILITY IN THE DIRECTION OF RENEWABLE RESOURCES, IT SEEMS LIKE THERE ARE SOLUTIONS THAT HAVEN'T REALLY BEEN EXPLORED, LIKE, YOU KNOW, IN SOME WAY INCORPORATING, UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE COMMUNITY SOLAR PROGRAM, WHICH IS SO SUBSCRIBED TO, AND I'M SURE WOULD SUBSCRIBE MORE PEOPLE IF THERE WAS MORE CAPACITY.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THERE'S ALWAYS A WAITING LIST AND IT SELLS OUT QUICKLY WHEN THERE'S NEW CAPACITIES.

SO IT SEEMS LIKE THERE WOULD BE OTHER WAYS TO KIND OF, UM, ADD TO THE AVAILABLE POT OF MONEY FOR, UM, DOING RENEWABLE RESOURCES.

AND I, I GUESS I WOULD JUST REALLY ASK THAT THAT BE EXPLORED, UM, WITHOUT JUST KIND OF, YOU KNOW, DECIDING THAT THERE'S, THAT THERE'S NOT ANOTHER SOLUTION.

UM, I REALLY, SOME CUSTOMERS ARE GOING TO GO WITH THE NATURAL GAS ANYWAY, AND YOU CAN'T STOP THEM.

UM, BUT PROVIDING SOME ADDITIONAL, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, I THINK IT'S, I WAS GOING TO SAY INCENTIVE, BUT IT'S NOT EVEN REALLY AN INCENTIVE.

IT'S JUST, UM, WHATEVER ADDITIONAL REVENUE STREAM FOR RENEWABLE ENERGY PROJECTS I THINK COULD, COULD BE A WIN-WIN.

SO WE ALWAYS OFFER THAT AS A SOLUTION, OUR CUSTOMERS THAT HAVE, THAT HAVE APPROACHED US TO DATE, UM, DO NOT FIND THAT SOLUTION SUITABLE AS A RESILIENCY PRODUCT.

SO THAT IS WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW.

AND WE ARE, UM, YOU KNOW, THIS IS LIKE I SAID, SOMETHING THAT WE WANT, YOU KNOW, WE WILL ALWAYS BE THERE OFFERING THAT AS A SOLUTION.

UM, BUT TO DATE THOSE CUSTOMERS THAT ARE, UH, THAT NEED THIS RESILIENCY, UM, THEY FEEL THAT THE SOLAR PLUS STORAGE SOLUTION IS THEY DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THAT ADEQUATELY PROVIDING RESILIENCY YET THAT, THAT TECHNOLOGY HASN'T, DOESN'T GIVE THEM A SENSE OF COMFORT AS A RESILIENCY PRODUCT.

I HEAR THAT.

IT'S JUST LIKE, I KNOW THAT THERE ARE, I MEAN, THERE'S FACILITIES THAT ARE OFF GRID AND JUST TO LEARN BATTERIES.

SO, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SAYING THAT EVERY TYPE OF FACILITY CAN DO THAT.

UM, I'M SURE THAT MANY OF THESE PERHAPS, YOU KNOW, CON COULDN'T GO FIVE DAYS.

UM, BUT I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK THAT IF AUSTIN ENERGY COULD MAYBE DO MORE TO TRY TO PUSH THAT OPTION, THAT AT LEAST SOME OF THEM WILL GO IN THAT DIRECTION.

MR. JOHNSON, I JUST HAD A TOTAL, UH, YOU KNOW, BRAIN, A BRAIN FART AND FORGOT WHAT THE QUESTION I JUST THOUGHT OF.

UM, GIVE ME, GIVE ME A COUPLE SECONDS, UH, UH, OR IF THERE'S ANYBODY ELSE WHO WANTS TO ASK THE QUESTION? SURE.

COMMISSIONER ROBBINS SIMPLY AGAIN, COULD YOU PLEASE, UH, PROVIDE US IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS, A SUMMARY OF YOUR GOALS AND AN ESTIMATE OF YOUR COSTS? UH, AN AGGREGATED ESTIMATE, OF COURSE.

[01:50:05]

UH, COMMISSIONER JOHNSON.

UM, YEAH, SO, AND, AND A LOT OF IT'S IS, UH, JUST REPEATING SO I CAN UNDERSTAND.

UM, SO JUST, UH, I KNOW YOU SAID SOME OF THIS ALREADY, UH, SO THIS, THIS LAW REQUIRES, UM, THAT BASICALLY GROCERY STORES OR FOOD SUPPLY CHAIN FACILITIES ARE, ARE BACKED UP.

IS, IS THAT, IS THAT CORRECT? IT, IT REQUIRES, UH, AUSTIN ENERGY TO INTERCONNECT A GENERATOR.

IF AN APPLICATION INTERCONNECTION APPLICATION HAS BEEN SUBMITTED, UH, BY, UM, A FOOD SUPPLY OR FOOD CHAIN, UH, CUSTOMER.

SO I AM REQUIRED TO CONNECT THEM INTO THE WHOLESALE MARKET.

SO IT'S BASICALLY OFTEN, BUT ON TERMS OF THE, WE HAD SUPPLY CHAIN INFANCY.

UM, AND, UM, AND SO YOU WERE REFERENCING EARLIER, UH, CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE OR EXCUSE ME, OR, YOU KNOW, CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE, CRITICAL LOAD.

WAS THAT DEFINED IN THAT BILL OR, OR IS, OR IS THAT IN, UH, IN, UH, ANOTHER, UH, ANOTHER LOSS, JUST SO WE CAN KNOW WHERE TO LOOK, IT'S OUR CRITICAL LOAD.

I'M HAPPY TO INCLUDE THAT WITH NO.

AND THAT, SO IT'S WHAT Y'ALL DEFINE OR WHAT Y'ALL HAVE IDENTIFIED AS CRITICAL LOAD BASED ON THE STATE DEFINITION THOUGH.

IS THAT CORRECT DEFINITION? IS IT OKAY? IT MIGHT JUST BE OUR AUSTIN ENERGY'S CRITICAL LOAD DEFINITION.

UH, YEAH, DEFINITELY SEND US A FOLLOW UP TO CLARIFY EXACTLY WHAT THAT IS ONCE YOU KNOW, FOR SURE.

UH, ANYONE ELSE? OKAY, ERICA, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE PRESENTATION.

WE'LL, WE'LL FOLLOW UP WITH ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS, BUT WE APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE TONIGHT.

I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

[4. Discussion regarding a resolution on Texas Gas Service Conservation Programs.]

TEXAS GAS SERVICE TO TAKE THIS SAVED, UH, MONEY AND SPEND IT FOR THINGS THAT MIGHT BE MORE USEFUL, SUCH AS, UH, LOW INCOME, UH, DISCOUNT ASSISTANCE AND RENEWABLE ENERGY RESEARCH.

UH, NEXT UP ITEM FOR DISCUSSION REGARDING A RESOLUTION ON TEXAS GAS SERVICE CONSERVATION PROGRAMS. SO SPONSORS ROBBINS, WHITES, AND BRENNAMAN.

UH, SO THIS RESOLUTION WAS DISTRIBUTED AS PART OF THE MEETING PACKET.

UH, I WOULD ASK ONE OF THE SPONSORS TO GIVE US AN OVERVIEW OF THE RESOLUTION, UH, WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH, UH, AND, AND WE'LL TAKE IT FROM THERE.

UH, FIRST, UH, LET ME JUST PREFACE BY SAYING THAT LOUIS STONE IS THE INVISIBLE FOURTH SPONSOR.

WE COULDN'T GET HIS NAME ON, IN TIME FOR POSTING, BUT HE'S THE FOURTH ONE.

UH, AND THAT TEXAS GAS SERVICE WAS INDEED CONTACTED.

UH, UM, IN FACT, UH, THEY RECEIVED NOTICE PRIOR TO SOME OF THE COMMISSIONERS GETTING NOTICED, AND THAT THIS IS LARGELY CENTERED ON THE CENTER POINT RESOLUTION THAT PASSED IN JANUARY BY, UH, THIS COMMISSION.

UH, AND IT BASICALLY, UH, IS MEANT TO, UM, STOP TEXAS GAS SERVICE FROM GIVING REBATES TO NEW, UH, HOMES, UH, AND TO, UM, STOP REBATES OF TANKLESS, WATER HEATERS, UH, HIGH EFFICIENCY FURNACES AND, UH, CLOTHES DRYERS, WHICH DO NOT MAKE ECONOMIC SENSE AND TO ASK FOR, UH, AT LEAST COOPERATION FROM WATER UTILITIES, UH, IN THE FORM OF FUNDING, UH, DIRECT INSTALLATION PROGRAMS, UH, THAT WOULD SAVE WATER AS WELL AS ENERGY.

IT ALSO, UM, SUGGESTS, UH, ASKING

[01:55:01]

UM, THIS IS MEANT FOR DISCUSSION ONLY TONIGHT, UH, UH, AT LEAST ONE COMMISSIONER, UH, DANA HARMAN HAS SUGGESTED THAT SHE WANTS TO, UH, TALK TO, UM, THE GAS COMPANY AND, UH, SEE IF SHE CAN GAIN BUY IN.

UM, THE ONLY OTHER THING I CAN ADD IN SUMMARY IS THAT, UH, I DID VERY BRIEFLY CORRESPOND WITH, UH, LARRY GRAHAM AT TEXAS GAS SERVICE.

AND, UH, HE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE IN ATTENDANCE TONIGHT, BUT HE SAID, WELL, WITH GAS COSTS GOING UP, WE THINK WE'RE EVEN MORE COST-EFFECTIVE.

AND I REPLIED, I LOOKED AT THAT LARRY AND I DON'T AGREE, AND I DID LOOK AT IT, UH, AS, UH, SOME OF, YOU KNOW, NATURAL GAS COSTS ARE, UH, IN LARGE PART BECAUSE, UH, DOMESTIC PRICES ARE NOW COMPETING WITH EXPORTS OF LIQUIFIED NATURAL GAS OVERSEAS, UH, BUT STILL DESPITE THESE EXAGGERATED GAS COSTS, THESE EXAGGERATED FUEL COSTS, UM, I CAN'T SEE THESE PARTICULAR ITEMS BEING ABLE TO COMPETE, UH, AND WE CONTINUE TO WASTE MONEY, UH, THAT COULD BE EITHER SAFE FOR THE RATE PAYER OR SPENT USEFULLY MORE USEFULLY FOR OTHER THINGS, UH, WITH THAT, UH, I'LL TAKE QUESTIONS OR, UM, THE COMMISSION CAN TALK AMONGST THEMSELVES.

YOU CAN, I LEARNED 40 YEARS AGO THAT WITH THE RIGHT STATISTICS, I CAN MAKE A HAMSTER ON A TREADMILL PRODUCE COST-EFFECTIVE POWER.

UH, JUST REAL QUICK, UH, ON, ON THAT TOPIC.

UM, ONE REALLY APPRECIATE YOU GUYS REACHING OUT TO, UH, TEXAS GAS BEFOREHAND.

UH, I DID REALLY SPEAK TO LARRY TODAY AND HE MENTIONED THAT, SO THAT, THAT IS, UH, MUCH APPRECIATED.

ALSO APPRECIATE SENDING YOU GUYS SENDING THIS AROUND FOR DISCUSSION THIS TIME, INSTEAD OF, UH, YOU KNOW, KIND OF, UH, GIVING US SOMETHING TO DISCUSS ON THE FLY AND THEN VOTE ON.

UH, SO I THINK THAT THAT'S A, THAT'S A GOOD PROCEDURAL, UH, IMPROVEMENT.

UM, THE ONE THING THAT KEEPS COMING UP IS PAUL, YOUR ANALYSIS OF THE COST EFFECTIVENESS AND COMING UP WITH A DIFFERENT RESULT THAN WHAT TEXAS GAS IS SHOWING IN TERMS OF COST EFFECTIVENESS.

UM, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT LARRY HAS IN THE PAST OFFERED IS FOR THEIR, UH, THIRD-PARTY CONSULTANT TO GIVE, UH, INTERESTED MEMBERS OF THE RMC, A, UH, KIND OF PRIMMER WORKSHOP ON HOW EXACTLY COST EFFECTIVENESS, WHAT WAS THE MATH BEHIND COST EFFECTIVENESS? UM, I THINK THAT SOMETHING LIKE THAT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA FOR THIS COMMISSION AS, UH, NOT MANY OF US ARE EXPERTS IN, UH, CALCULATING ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND, UH, THE FINANCIAL IMPLICATIONS OF THAT.

UM, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I AM, WE'RE GOING TO TRY AND SET UP SOMETIME IN JULY.

UH, PAUL, I WOULD ASK THAT FOR, IF YOU HAVE AN UPDATED ANALYSIS AROUND THAT MAYBE YOU COULD SEND THAT OUT TO THE COMMISSION.

UM, AND IDEALLY THIS SEEMS LIKE AN, A TOP AN ANSWER THAT OR SOMETHING, A QUESTION THAT WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET AN ANSWER ON, UH, NAMELY WHAT ARE THE KEY ASSUMPTIONS THAT ARE DRIVING A DIFFERENCE IN PAUL, WHAT YOUR RESULTS ARE SHOWING VERSUS WHAT, UH, TEXAS GAS'S CONSULTANT IS SHOWING, UH, WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT ARE THOSE LEVERS THAT ARE DRIVING THE DIFFERENCE? IT'S, IT'S HARD TO, UH, YOU KNOW, OTHERWISE WE'RE JUST KIND OF ACCEPTING FOLKS HIS WORD FOR IT, RIGHT? SO, UH, JUST STAY TUNED ON THAT.

AND I W I WOULD ASK IF YOU CAN SEND OUT THAT ANALYSIS, ANY UPDATES TO THAT THAT WOULD BE APPRECIATED.

UH, YOU, MIKE, MIKE, I CAN DO THAT, UH, CHAIR, UH, AND PROBABLY EASILY, BUT I REALIZE WHAT I'M ABOUT TO SAY IS RATHER CAUSTIC, BUT, UM, I'LL REMIND YOU OF THE FAMOUS, UH, SAYING OF MARK TWAIN.

THERE ARE LIES, DAMN LIES IN STATISTICS TICKS, AND

[02:00:01]

UH, ONE THING I'LL SAY RIGHT OFF, UM, THIS IS EASY.

UH, ONE DIFFERENCE IS THAT TEXAS GAS SERVICE DIDN'T BOTHER TO LOOK AT RECEIPTS.

THEY JUST TOOK A DEEMED COST THAT THEY READ SOMEWHERE AND SAID, HM, WE'LL USE THIS.

I ASKED FOR RECEIPTS, UH, AND SPENT ABOUT THREE DAYS GOING THROUGH, UM, THEM, AND THE ONLY ONES THAT WERE USEFUL, UH, WERE THE ONES FOR TANKLESS WATER HEATERS.

BUT I'LL USE THAT AS AN EXAMPLE, UH, TEXAS GAS SERVICE WAS PRESUMING THAT THERE WOULD BE AN EXTRA COST OF MAYBE GOING FROM MEMORY HERE, MAYBE $750.

AND MY, UM, RESEARCH ON THE ACTUAL RECEIPTS SAID IT WAS MORE ON THE ORDER OF FOUR OR $5,000, AND I CAN PROVIDE YOU THOSE RECEIPTS, AND I CAN PROVIDE YOU WITH THE XL SUMMARY OF THE THREE DAYS THAT I SPENT ON THOSE RECEIPTS, UH, IN THE CASE OF, UM, IN THE CASE OF, UH, FURNACES, UM, WOULD YOU ACCEPT THE TECHNICAL REF RESOURCE MANUAL FROM, UM, ILLINOIS, WHERE THEY SAID THAT THE COST OF THESE FURNACES COULD BE ABOUT $1,900 ABOVE NORMAL? UH, I HAD TALKED TO THREE LOCAL CONTRACTORS AND GOTTEN OUTRAGEOUS COSTS FOR THESE VARIOUS UNITS.

UH, SO I WENT TO GREAT LENGTHS TO DOCUMENT WHAT, UM, TEXAS GAS SERVICE AND FOR THAT MATTER WHAT THE CITY'S OWN CONSULTANT DID NOT.

UM, AND YES, I'LL, I'LL PROVIDE THEM AND I'LL PROVIDE THEM IN, UH, LIKE ONE OR TWO PAGES.

SO YOU WON'T BE SWIMMING IN NUMBERS, BUT I'M QUITE CERTAIN I'VE GOT THIS RIGHT.

I WOULD NOT BRING THIS BEFORE YOU, IF I WERE NOT.

ARE THERE COMMENTS FOR DISCUSSION ON THE DRAFT RESOLUTION? UM, THANK YOU FOR THIS.

I JUST WANTED TO ASK A CLARIFYING QUESTION IN NUMBER TWO OF THE PROPOSED RESOLUTION IT'S TALKS ABOUT THE ELIMINATION OF REBATES FOR CLOTHES WASHERS.

IS THAT CORRECT? I THOUGHT I HEARD IT MENTIONED TO BE CLOSED DRYERS WAS THE APPLIANCE THAT WE WANTED TO REMOVE.

UM, I, UM, I GUESS I COULD BE A LITTLE MORE EMBARRASSED IF I TRIED.

THIS IS JUST THE FIRST YEAR.

AND IT WASN'T THE CLOTHES DRYERS.

I APOLOGIZE.

IT IS A DRAFT I HAVE ONE ADDITIONAL QUESTION.

I KNOW THIS WAS, UM, MODELED, UM, PRIMARILY, OR AT LEAST INITIALLY ON THE RESOLUTION THAT THIS COMMISSION PASSED IN JANUARY FOR, UM, THE CENTER POINT ENERGY.

AND CAN YOU TELL US JUST FOR RECOLLECTION WHAT'S, WHAT IS THE PRIMARY DIFFERENCE FROM THAT RESOLUTION? ARE THERE THESE, UH, ELIMINATION OF REBATES? IS, ARE THESE THE ONES, THIS POINT NUMBER TWO, IS THAT A DIFFERENCE FROM THE RESOLUTION THAT WAS PASSED? IF YOU COULD JUST KIND OF OUTLINE WHAT WHAT'S DIFFERENT ABOUT THIS ONE GOING FROM MEMORY? UM, I RECALL THAT WE HAD CENTER POINT SAID, WELL, THIS IS PRETTY FAR ALONG AND WE NEED, WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING.

HOWEVER,

[02:05:01]

SO I BELIEVE YOU ALL WORDED IT SO THAT THEY WOULD WORK TOWARDS ELIMINATING THE, UH, REBATES FOR, UH, INEFFECTIVE OR COST FOR, UH, FURNACES AND WATER HEATERS THAT WERE NOT COST-EFFECTIVE AND, UH, WORK INSTEAD TO COORDINATE WITH, UH, UTILITIES THAT WERE GIVING REBATES FOR THINGS LIKE INSULATION AND DUCT CEILING.

UH, I THINK I'M RECALLING THIS RIGHT.

AND SO, UH, SINCE TEXAS GAS SERVICE IS ALREADY COORDINATING WITH AUSTIN ENERGY FOR, UH, KEEPING, UH, UM, REBATES FOR INSULATION AND DUCT CEILING.

UH, WE DIDN'T HAVE TO DO THAT HERE.

SO INSTEAD IT JUST CALLS FOR ILLUMINATING, UH, THE REBATES FOR FURNACES AND WATER HEATERS AND CLOTHES DRYERS.

I HAD THE SAME QUESTION.

UM, AND SO I, I DID PULL UP THE RESOLUTION THAT WE PASSED AND IN JANUARY AND, AND PAUL, I THINK YOUR, YOUR MEMORY IS, IS VERY CLOSE.

UM, I, I WILL SAY THAT MY READ ON THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THESE, THE CENTERPOINT RESOLUTION AND THIS ONE IS AS DRAFTED HERE.

UM, WE, WE HAD, UM, A GOOD, UH, LENGTHY DISCUSSION AS I RECALL ABOUT, UM, TRYING TO BE, NOT NECESSARILY PRESCRIPTIVE, UM, BUT DEVELOP A SET OF RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WERE THEN PASSED.

AND SO SPECIFICALLY FOR THAT POINT IT'S POINT NUMBER FOUR, IN THE CENTER POINT RESOLUTION, UM, THE LANGUAGE IS ENCOURAGED CENTER POINT TO CONSIDER THE SUBSTITUTION OF DECK CEILING, CEILING INSULATION, AND COST-EFFECTIVE WEATHERIZATION MEASURES INSTEAD OF CENTRAL FURNACE AND WATER HEATER REBATES.

UM, WHAT WAS THE LANGUAGE THAT WAS THERE? AND SO I, MY, MY PERSONAL READ ON, ON THIS IS THAT THE CENTER POINT RESOLUTION WAS, UM, REALLY A SET OF RECOMMENDATIONS, UM, IN MANY WAYS AND PERHAPS A BIT LESS PRESCRIPTIVE THAN THIS LANGUAGES.

UM, SO I JUST KIND OF WANTED TO POINT OUT, UM, DIFFERENCE IN THE WAY THAT I INTERPRET THE TWO, UM, THE OTHER, YOU KNOW, WE, WE DIDN'T HAVE THE DISCUSSION ABOUT, OR THE, THE LANGUAGE ABOUT COST EFFECTIVENESS, UM, IN, IN THAT RESOLUTION, BECAUSE THAT, THAT WASN'T ON THE TABLE FOR THE EXISTING PROGRAM AT THE TIME.

UM, I'M A LITTLE BIT, IT DOES FEEL LIKE WE'RE TRYING TO DO A LOT IN, IN THIS ONE PROPOSED RESOLUTION.

UM, YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE'S THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT COST-EFFECTIVENESS AND WHOSE NUMBERS ARE RIGHT.

UM, WHICH IS AN IMPORTANT ONE.

AND I, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET A GOOD ANSWER TOO.

UM, THERE'S THIS PUSH TOWARDS, UM, UH, THE ELIMINATION OF REBATES FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION, UM, WHICH WAS IN THE CENTER POINT RESOLUTION, AND I THINK IS AN IMPORTANT POINT, UM, HERE AND FORGIVE ME, I HAVEN'T ACTUALLY COMPARED THE LANGUAGE, BUT MY READ IS THAT THE, THE ELIMINATION OF, OF, UH, REBATES FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION IS FAIRLY SIMILAR, I THINK.

UM, AND SO THOSE, THOSE ARE IN KEY THING.

UM, BUT AGAIN, I THINK OF IN MY MIND, A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT FROM COST-EFFECTIVENESS.

UM, BUT TH THE OTHER, I THINK KEY POINT HERE IS I BELIEVE THE TEXAS GAS SERVICE DOES SEE THIS AS A SPEEDING UP THE TIMELINE FOR THIS DISCUSSION.

UM, AND SO, AND I, YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR LARRY.

I DID HAVE A BRIEF EXCHANGE WITH HIM AS WELL.

UM, BUT I THINK PART OF WHAT WE'RE WE'RE DOING HERE IS, YOU KNOW, WITH THE CENTERPOINT RESOLUTION, THIS WAS A PILOT PROGRAM, UM, THAT WE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO SHAPE HERE.

THERE'S AN EXISTING PROGRAM THAT WE WOULD BE MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS TO CHANGE.

PAUL I'VE, I'VE HEARD YOUR ARGUMENT THAT THERE'S NO NEED TO WAIT TILL THE, YOU KNOW, THE THREE-YEAR CYCLE IS UP AND THAT THE COMMISSION CAN MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS MID CYCLE IF WE WANT TO CALL IT THAT, BUT THAT IS, THAT'S A CHANGE, UM, YOU KNOW, A MAJOR DIFFERENCE, UM, THAT I THINK THAT WE SHOULD CONSIDER.

UM, AND, YOU KNOW, I, I, I DO STAND BY IT.

I THINK WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND FROM TEXAS GAS, WHAT IT MEANS TO THEM TO MAKE THESE RECOMMENDATIONS OUT OF CYCLE, OR KIND OF WHAT THAT DOES FOR THEIR PROGRAMS. UM, JUST LIKE THE, UM, GREEN BUILDINGS WORKING GROUP DID EARLIER.

I THINK THAT WAS A, AN EXCELLENT MODEL FOR US, UM, JUST IN TERMS OF, OF UNDERSTANDING THE IMPLICATIONS OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS.

UM, AND THEN FINALLY, FINALLY, SINCE I'VE GOT THE MIC,

[02:10:01]

I WILL SAY THERE IS THIS OTHER, THE REDIRECT, UM, OF THE SAVINGS TO KIND OF TWO DIFFERENT PLACES OF POTENTIAL SAVINGS TO TWO DIFFERENT PLACES.

UM, THE SAVINGS FROM THE, THE LACK OF THE REBATE PROGRAMS AND, AND THOSE ARE, YOU KNOW, TO, TO GO FOR UTILITY ASSISTANCE, UM, IS MY UNDERSTANDING FOR INCOME VERIFIED, UM, CUSTOMERS AND FOR R AND D, UM, WHICH ARE BOTH IMPORTANT AND, AND ALMOST SEPARATE TOPICS A LITTLE BIT.

SO, UM, I THINK THESE ARE ALL GOOD FOR US TO HAVE, BUT I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT COMMENT THAT IT FEELS LIKE WE'RE HAVING A LOT OF DISCUSSIONS AT ONCE, UM, IN THIS, IN THIS RESOLUTION.

AND IF THE COMMISSIONER IS OKAY WITH THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT'S GREAT, BUT IT, IT JUST FEELS LIKE WE'RE TRYING TO GET A LOT DONE.

UM, AND, AND THIS ONE PROPOSED RESOLUTION, WE COULD BREAK IT UP INTO TWO.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE AS PASSED SOMETHING THAT IS WORKABLE AND LIKELY TO BE IMPLEMENTED, AND THAT DOES TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION WHAT IT'S GOING TO TAKE FOR THE IMPLEMENTATION.

UM, YOU KNOW, I'M, I'M ON AS A CO-SPONSOR.

UM, AND I, UH, I, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE THINGS THAT ARE, THAT ARE IN HERE.

I, I, I DO SUPPORT ALL OF THIS, BUT I WILL SAY THAT LIKE, UM, THERE, I ALSO HAVE, LIKE, I GUESS, PRIORITIES WITHIN THIS.

I WOULD SAY THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, I, I, I THINK THAT, UM, PERSONALLY I WOULD BE FINE WITH MAYBE ELIMINATING SOME PIECES OF, OF THE LANGUAGE IN HERE TO, TO ADDRESS SOME OF WHAT YOU JUST RAISED, DANA, UH, SPECIFICALLY THE REALLOCATION OF THE MONEY.

UM, NOT, NOT A TOP PRIORITY FOR ME PERSONALLY.

LIKE MY TOP PRIORITY IS REALLY AROUND THE, THE ELIMINATION OF INCENTIVES FOR NEW EQUIPMENT IN NEW CONSTRUCTION.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THAT IS JUST, UM, YOU KNOW, PRETTY CUT AND DRY, NOT ALIGNED WITH CITY POLICY IN TERMS OF DECARBONIZATION.

UM, AND, AND SO, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE MY, MY PERSONAL PRIORITY IS.

AND SO FRANKLY, IF WE, IF WE CUT EVERYTHING ELSE OUT OF HERE, UM, EXCEPT FOR THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, I WOULD STILL CONSIDER IT A GOOD STEP FORWARD.

I DO THINK THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THE COST EFFECTIVENESS, UM, ARGUMENT MATTERS.

UM, BUT I THINK THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THESE, I MEAN, REALLY A LOT OF THESE COULD, COULD STAND JUST ON, ON A KIND OF LIKE ALIGNMENT WITH POLICY IN TERMS OF, OF CARBON GOALS.

UM, YOU KNOW, W W WHEN THAT EVENT, THE BAN ON WHAT IS COST-EFFECTIVE AND WHAT ISN'T, UM, I, YOU KNOW, I'M, I'M HAPPY, I GUESS, TO JUST SPEND A LITTLE TIME WITH THE CONSULTANT, BUT I ALSO, YOU KNOW, DON'T EXPECT THEM TO LIKE, TURN AROUND AND SAY THAT LIKE, THEIR, THAT THEIR WORK WAS SUBPAR AND CHANGED THEIR MIND, YOU KNOW? UM, SO YEAH, I GUESS I'LL JUST SAY THAT, LIKE, I DON'T, I PERSONALLY HOPE WE DON'T SET THAT BAR AS LIKE THAT WE ALL COME TO AN AGREEMENT ON THE NUMBERS.

UM, BECAUSE I, I JUST THINK THAT THAT'S UNLIKELY JUST WANTING TO SHARE WHERE MY PRIORITIES ARE.

DANA, CAN I ASK QUESTION DANA? YEAH, OF COURSE.

UM, IT'S, UM, KIND OF A LIGHT IN THE EVENING, SO I'LL JUST CUT TO THE CHASE.

WHAT WILL MAKE YOU HAPPY? UM, MY, UM, MY GOAL HERE IS, UM, I I'VE GROWN QUITE INTOLERANT TO, UH, THE VARIOUS DELAYING TACTICS OF THE GAS UTILITY OVER THE YEARS.

UM, THE, UM, THERE, I WAS AT THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING WHERE THE CITY REGULATOR, RON DELLA HAWKINS TOLD THE CITY COUNCIL BLUNTLY, YOU CAN CHANGE THIS LATER IF YOU WANT TO THAT'S PARAPHRASE, BUT THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID.

SO THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT IF THE COUNCIL CHOOSES TO, THEY CAN CHANGE THIS.

SO I'M GOING TO DOUBLE BACK TO YOU DANA AND SAY, GIVEN WHAT I'VE JUST SAID, WHAT WILL SATISFY YOU? WELL? UM, I THINK WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE HERE IS

[02:15:01]

UM, AND I DO FEEL THAT WE'RE TRYING AGAIN, TO GET A LOT DONE IN THIS ONE RESOLUTION.

SO I SUPPORT, I DO THINK IT MAKES SENSE FOR US TO TAKE UP THESE ISSUES SEPARATELY.

UM, AND I WOULD BE SUPPORTIVE OF KITE, HIS SUGGESTION TO TAKE UP THE ELIMINATION OF REBATES FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION SEPARATELY.

UM, I BELIEVE THAT SOMETHING THAT WE'VE, WE'VE KIND OF SET PRECEDENT FOR WITH THE CENTER POINT RESOLUTION.

I THINK THE, THE ISSUE THAT I BELIEVE WILL BE A POINT THAT WE NEED TO, TO COME TO SOME SORT OF AGREEMENT ON, UM, IS TIMING.

UM, SO I, I THINK THAT TEXAS GAS, YOU KNOW, THEIR, THEIR PERSPECTIVE ON THIS IS THAT THAT'S UP FOR DISCUSSION IN 2026.

IT FEELS LIKE THAT'S NOT THE, THE FEELING OF, OF THIS COMMISSION THAT THAT'S WHEN WE NEED TO, YOU KNOW, MAKE ANY PROGRAMMATIC CHANGES.

UM, I GUESS I ALSO APPRECIATE THE, YOU KNOW, MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS FOR PROGRAM CHANGES HAVE IMPLICATIONS, YOU KNOW, ON THE, IN THE PART OF THE UTILITY FOR WHAT THAT MEANS, WHAT, WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? UM, AND I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE TEXAS GAS TELL US WHAT THAT MEANS FOR THEM.

UM, AND ALSO HERE, ANY THOUGHTS ON HOW WE CAN HELP GET THERE AND HELP GET TO THE ALL NEW BUILDINGS OR NET ZERO CARBON, UM, UH, AN EMISSIONS FROM EXISTING BUILDINGS, OR ARE RELEASED BASICALLY HELPING TO, TO GET TO THE GOALS THAT ARE SET OUT IN THE CLIMATE EQUITY PLAN.

I THINK IF WE CAN FOCUS ON THAT, I, I DO THINK THAT THAT IS A, A USEFUL RECOMMENDATION.

I THINK THE OTHERS ARE AS WELL.

UM, I KNOW WE'VE BEEN HAVING THIS COST EFFECTIVENESS ARGUMENT FOR AWHILE.

IT, IT SEEMS I DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND WHY WE DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT ANSWER.

WE DON'T HAVE CONSENSUS ON TO WHAT CA AS TO WHAT COST EFFECTIVENESS MEANS.

UM, BUT I WORRY THAT WE'RE MUDDLING IT.

ONE DISCUSSION IS GETTING MUDDLED WITH THE OTHER.

AND SO I THINK I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THOSE, THOSE THINGS SEPARATED.

UM, SO I GUESS MAYBE WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE PAUL TASK YOUR QUESTION ABOUT WHAT WOULD MAKE ME HAPPY.

UM, IT IS PROBABLY SOMETHING THAT IS STRAIGHTFORWARD THAT WE THINK THAT WE CAN PASS.

IT IS MODELED ON THE CENTER POINTS RESOLUTION RELATED TO, UM, ELIMINATION OF REBATES FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION.

LET'S, LET'S SEE IF WE CAN GET THAT MOVE FORWARD, UM, IN A WAY THAT IS PRODUCTIVE AND CONSTRUCTION AND CONSTRUCTIVE AND HAS, YOU KNOW, IS LIKELY TO PASS CITY COUNCIL, AND THEN WE CAN PERHAPS TAKE UP THE OTHER ISSUES SEPARATELY.

THAT'S MY RESPONSE.

YOU KNOW, AN ARGUMENT FROM THE CONSULTANT, UM, OTHERWISE.

UM, I'M GOING TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH YOU OFFLINE TO GET THIS, UH, IN A MORE GRANULAR FORM, BUT WOULD, UH, I'M GOING TO FLOAT THE IDEA THAT AT THE NEXT MEETING, PERHAPS WE COULD VOTE ON NEW CONSTRUCTION SEPARATELY AND THEN TAKE UP A BROADER DISCUSSION OF COST-EFFECTIVENESS OF THE EXISTING OF THE REBATES FOR EXISTING, UH, HOMES AND PERHAPS A SEPARATE RESOLUTION FOR, UH, WISHFUL SPENDING.

SO THAT WOULD BE THREE, THREE RESOLUTIONS.

AM I, AM I, AM I FOLLOWING YOU? I THINK POTENTIALLY AT LEAST TWO PAUL.

UM, SO ONE FOR THE NEW REBATES, NEW CONSTRUCTION, UM, REBATES, I THINK THAT THE SECOND FOR THE WISHFUL SPENDING THINK THAT IS, UH, A GOOD WAY TO, TO PHRASE IT.

I, I THINK THAT THOSE TWO SHOULD BE TAKEN SEPARATELY, UM, REGARDING THE COST EFFECTIVENESS.

UM, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF I AGREE THAT WE'RE TO THE POINT OF SUPPORTIVE OF A RESOLUTION AT THE NEXT MEETING YET.

UM, IT DOES SOUND LIKE THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE DISCUSSION AND WE REALLY NEED TO HOPEFULLY FINALLY GET TO AN ANSWER ON, ON WHETHER OR NOT THE PROGRAMS ARE CO COST-EFFECTIVE, UM, WHICH IS NOT MY AREA OF EXPERTISE.

AND PAUL, YOU'VE DONE A LOT OF WORK, UM, IN THIS SPACE.

I KNOW THAT THERE'S,

[02:20:01]

AND SO I'M, I'M HOPEFUL THAT WE CAN COME TO A PLACE THAT, THAT THERE IS AGREEMENT THERE.

AND IF SO, THEN PERHAPS THERE'S A RESOLUTION THAT COMES OUT OF IT.

BUT YEAH, I GUESS THAT'S, THAT'S THREE.

AND BY MY COUNTING, THERE WILL, I CAN PROMISE YOU THAT THERE WILL NOT BE, I CAN, I WILL BET YOU MONEY, UH, HERE IN PUBLIC, UH, HOW MUCH MONEY TO THE CHARITY OF YOUR CHOICE, THAT TEXAS GAS SERVICE.

AND I WILL NOT AGREE BY THE END OF THE JULY MEETING.

UM, UM, AND ALTHOUGH THERE ARE, UM, UM, INTELLECTUAL ARGUMENTS THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, POINTS OF DISAGREEMENT, THEY CAN BE JUSTIFIED ONLY TO A POINT.

YOU CANNOT GIVE A 300 AND TWENTY-FIVE DOLLAR REBATE FOR A GAS DRYER THAT SAVES A DOLLAR AND 31 CENTS A YEAR AND HAVE THIS BE COST EFFECTIVE.

THERE'S JUST NO WAY TO DO IT.

UM, I DON'T KNOW THAT YOUR GREAT GRANDCHILDREN WILL BE ALIVE WHEN IT FINALLY BREAKS.

EVEN I'M OPEN TO THOUGHTS FROM THE REST OF THE COMMISSIONERS ON, ON THIS.

UM, BUT I AM IN SUPPORT OF SEPARATING THESE AND PROPOSING THE ELIMINATION OF REBATES FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION AT THE NEXT, UM, AT THE NEXT MEETING, I W I WILL, I WILL WORD IT THUS COMMISSIONER STONE.

UH, THIS IS JUST ME BEING A TRANSPLANT HERE.

UM, SO I'M JUST GOING TO ASK KIND OF A QUESTION AND THAT IS ON RESIDENTIAL REBATE PROGRAMS WHEN IT COMES TO, UH, YOU KNOW, INCENTIVIZING, UH, USING RENEWABLES OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE.

UM, DO THEY DO THINGS HERE LIKE WE DO UP IN, LIKE WE DID UP IN ILLINOIS EVENTUALLY I'LL STOP THINKING I LIVE THERE, UM, WHERE YOU BASICALLY GOT A LOT OF THOSE REBATES FOR KINDS OF HOME PRODUCTS, JUST RIGHT THERE AT THE POINT OF SALE AT THE STORE, OR IS EVERYTHING REQUIRED TO DO A MAILING AND A COUPON WITH RECEIPTS AND WAITING SIX WEEKS FOR A CHECK TO COME IN THE MAIL? IT'S KIND OF JUST GENERAL QUESTION, BECAUSE I JUST DON'T KNOW HOW IT WORKS DOWN HERE FOR THESE KINDS OF PROGRAMS. AUSTIN ENERGY WOULD BE THE BEST THERE.

I THINK THEY'RE TRYING TO GET IT TO WHERE IT'S AT POINT OF SALE, BUT I KNOW IN THE PAST IT HAS BEEN A, YOU HAVE TO SUBMIT THROUGH THE WEBSITE.

IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE AWKWARD.

'CAUSE I MEAN, TO ME, ANYWAY, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT STRUCTURING RESIDENTIAL TYPE PROGRAMS IN GENERAL, THAT WOULD KIND OF BE MY PREFERENCE IS BASICALLY LET HOME DEPOT AND LOWE'S DO THE FILING FOR YOU ESSENTIALLY, YOU KNOW, THEY'LL GO AND AHEAD AND TAKE THE REBATES AND, AND, AND FILE WHATEVER PAPERWORK.

AND THEY JUST GIVE YOU THE DISCOUNT RIGHT THERE AT THE CASH REGISTER.

UM, SO AS WE TALK ABOUT THAT PORTION OF THIS, WHICH I THINK IS IN BILL TWO, A OR THREE, DEPENDING ON HOW WE LOOK AT IT, IF WE'RE ABLE TO SEE IF MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE COULD ALSO TRY TO ENCOURAGE, I UNDERSTAND THAT THAT'S A WHOLE SEPARATE THING, BUT IT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT I LOOK AT AND SAY, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TRYING TO HELP PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO ARE DOING, YOU KNOW, BASIC REHABS, TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, PUT IN MORE ENERGY EFFICIENT WINDOWS OR INSULATION OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE, THAT'S KIND OF AN EASY WIN TO HELP THEM ADOPT A LITTLE BIT BETTER AS OPPOSED TO BEING COMPLETELY OUT OF POCKET.

THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FOR THE TANKLESS WATER HEATER, AS AN EXAMPLE, OUR FAVORITE TOPIC, UH, JUST LIKE THEY'LL GET PAUL'S BLOOD PRESSURE GOING, UM, AS OPPOSED TO BEING ABLE TO GO ON AHEAD AND GET THE $500 OFF OR WHATEVER THE NUMBER MIGHT BE WITHIN A REBATE PROGRAM.

SO I JUST KIND OF WANTED TO THROW THAT OUT THERE AND CHEW ON THAT'S ALL THAT.

UH, COMMISSIONER BRENNAMAN I, UM, I JUST WANTED TO ASK PAUL, UM, IS THERE A VALUE OR A RATIO FOR THE COST EFFECTIVENESS THAT CAN BE COMPARED AND MAYBE HAVE SOME KIND OF JUST A SMALL ONE-TIME WORKING GROUP WITH, UM, TEXAS GAS SERVICE TO GO THROUGH THE NUMBERS WITH A COUPLE OF COMMISSIONERS THAT WE UNDERSTAND WHERE THEY'RE COMING FROM, WHAT THE DIFFERENCES ARE, AND THEN IN THE PROPOSED RESOLUTION REGARDING THE COST EFFECTIVENESS, UM, IF, IF AN APPLIANCE OR A REBATE DOESN'T MEET A MINIMUM VALUE OR RATIO, THEN IT GETS ILLUMINATED LIKE THERE'S NO REBATE, UM, THAT WILL YOU JUST SET THE THRESHOLD.

YOU DON'T GO THROUGH SPECIFIC NUMBERS AND OVERLY PRESCRIBED

[02:25:02]

DETAIL.

UM, YOU JUST SAY, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S NOT COST-EFFECTIVE AND IT DOESN'T CONSERVE ENERGY OR WHATEVER THE NUMBERS ARE THAT YOU'RE USING, UM, I MEAN, WOULD THAT BE A GOOD IDEA TO, TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE CAN WORK THROUGH THE NUMBERS AND THE DIFFERENCES THAT WE HAVE, BOTH TEXAS GAS SERVICE WE'LL SEND YOU, THEY'VE SENT ME SEVERAL, UH, OF THEIR YEARLY ANALYSIS AND THEY'RE DONE ON COMPLICATED SPREADSHEETS AND THEY HAVE EXACTLY THE RATIOS THAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR.

THE PROBLEM IS NOT THE RATIOS, REBECCA.

THE PROBLEM IS THE ASSUMPTIONS TO CREATE THOSE RATIOS.

IF YOU HAVE A $700 COST FOR A TANKLESS WATER HEATER, AND YOU DON'T PUT IN THE CLEANING COSTS BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO BE REGULARLY CLEANED, UH, THEN IT'S GOING TO LOOK A WHOLE LOT MORE COST-EFFECTIVE THAN IF YOU HAVE A COST THAT'S MORE LIKE $4,000 AND YOU HAVE TO CLEAN IT EVERY THIRD OR FOURTH YEAR.

UH, UM, AND, AND THAT'S WHERE, UH, THE DEBATE COMES IN.

UH, THAT'S WHY I DEMANDED THAT THE CITY SEND ME RECEIPTS DURING THE LAST, UM, LAST YEAR WHEN THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO, UH, BE RE-EVALUATED.

AND IT'S WHY I SPENT THREE DAYS GOING THROUGH THOSE RECEIPTS.

UM, THIS IS WHAT TEXAS GAS SERVICES CONSULTANT SHOULD BE DOING, BUT THEY, THEY DID NOT DO IT.

LOOK, I DON'T WANT TO GET BOGGED DOWN ON THIS COST EFFECTIVENESS, BACK AND FORTH AT THIS MEETING.

I WILL, I WILL TAKE THIS, UH, AND WE WILL SET UP A WORKING GROUP SESSION, SOME TYPE OF PRIMER ON HOW THESE ANALYSIS SHOULD BE DONE.

I MEAN, I WOULD SAY JUST AS SOMEONE WHO HAS DONE A LOT OF THESE ANALYSIS IN THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY SECTOR IN THE PAST, IT'S NOT APPROPRIATE TO CHERRY PICK OUTLIERS, AND THEN EXTRAPOLATE THAT TO AN ENTIRE CLASS OF TECHNOLOGIES.

AND SO I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE USING RECEIPTS, BUT YOU CAN ALWAYS FIND OUTLIERS, WHICH ARE GOING TO, IF YOU ASSUME IN COMP, YOU KNOW, ENCOMPASSES THE ENTIRE CLASS OF TECHNOLOGY IS THAT IT'S, YOU KNOW, YOUR ASSUMPTIONS ARE, ARE JONATHAN, YOU ARE, CAN WE CHAIR, UH, BLACKBURN, YOU ARE CORRECT.

ONE CAN CHERRY PICK.

UH, AND I EXHAUSTED MYSELF TRYING TO DO, UH, THE OPPOSITE, TRYING TO GET EVERY LEGIBLE RECEIPT IN THIS DATABASE THAT I COULD, I ASKED FOR, UH, MANY TIMES MORE RECEIPTS THAN I WAS GIVEN.

SO, UH, YOU'RE YOU'RE RIGHT, BUT I'M RIGHT TOO.

TO BE OFF TIMING FROM TEXAS GAS PERSPECTIVE.

UH, SO LET'S ANY, ANY OTHER COMMENTS, COMMISSIONER DAVIS REAL QUICK, UH, OKAY.

SOMETHING FOR THE SPONSORS TO CONSIDER? UM, I I'M HEARING THERE'S, THERE'S A COUPLE OF ITEMS IN THIS PROPOSED RESOLUTION.

ONE IS TO ELIMINATE THE REBATES FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION.

UM, THE OTHER FOUR EXISTING RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS FOR DRYERS FURNACES AND WATER HEATERS.

SO THOSE TO ME SEEM LIKE TWO COMPONENTS THAT, UH, WOULD NATURALLY FIT IN A RESOLUTION THAT WE MIGHT SEND TO COUNCIL.

UM, I'M WONDERING IF, UH, WE KNOW WITH REGARD TO EXISTING EXISTING BUILDING VERSUS NEW CONSTRUCTION, WHAT'S THE BIGGER IMPACT IF WE WERE TO SAY, UM, YOU KNOW, WHICH OF THESE COMPONENTS OF THE RESOLUTION WOULD HAVE A BIGGER IMPACT ON EMISSIONS? UM, ONE OF THE THINGS, UH, THAT I RECALL FROM WHEN LARRY GRAHAM WAS IN THE MEETING LAST TIME WAS WE TALKED ABOUT THE AUSTIN CLIMATE EQUITY PLAN.

AND IT SEEMED TO BE THE, THE FIRST TIME THAT THE BASELINE FOR THE, UM, UH, REDUCTION IN, UH, UH, CARBON WAS, WAS KNOWN, UM, DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE CLIMATE EQUITY PLAN WAS ADOPTED BACK IN SEPTEMBER.

UM, SO I THINK THAT GIVEN THAT, UM, THIS WOULD BE SEEN

[02:30:01]

THEY'RE THINKING NOT TILL 20, 24, WOULD THIS EVEN COME UP AGAIN FOR DISCUSSION, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MAKING, UM, SOME PROPOSALS, SOME RESOLUTIONS TO CHANGE THIS REBATE PROGRAM, MAYBE WE LOOK AT TRYING TO GET THE BEST POSSIBLE RESOLUTION COMBINED, BOTH OF THOSE INTO ONE.

I DEFINITELY THINK THAT THE, YOU KNOW, SAVINGS GOING TO RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT OR TO, UM, YOU KNOW, TO RATE PAIR SAVINGS FOR LOW-INCOME PROGRAM.

THOSE THAT TO ME DOES SEEM SEPARATE.

UM, BUT IT FEELS LIKE SOMETHING WE MIGHT TRY TO CRAFT THE BEST, MOST THOUGHTFUL, WORKABLE PLAN AND SEND THAT ONE THROUGH AS OPPOSED TO LET'S TRY AND GET THE NEW CONSTRUCTION PUSHED THROUGH NEXT TIME.

AND THEN A COUPLE MONTHS LATER, LET'S TRY AND GET THESE OTHER, UM, RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS, UH, REBATES ELIMINATED THROUGH.

SO THAT'S KIND OF WHERE MY HEAD IS AT FOR, FOR THIS RIGHT NOW.

WELL, I RESPECT IT.

UM, YOU NEED TO CONVINCE, UH, YOUR, UM, COMMISSIONERS HARMON AND WHITE, UH, THAT THIS IS THE BETTER W THEY'RE TELLING THEY WOULD PREFER TO DO THIS NOW.

AND YOU'RE TELLING ME YOU'D PREFER TO DO IT AS A LARGER, UH, EFFORT.

I SHOULD CLARIFY.

I'M NOT SAYING I PREFER TO DO IT AS A LARGER, I'M JUST SAYING THAT, UM, ONE THING TO CONSIDER IS IF WE CAN GO THROUGH WITH THE NEW CONSTRUCTION ALIGNING WITH WHAT WE DID FOR CENTER POINT, UH, IT JUST MAY NOT BE AS IT MAY NOT SEEM AS PRESSING TO DO THE REST OF IT.

YEAH, SURE.

CHARLOTTE, I THINK THAT IS A REALLY GOOD POINT.

AND I, UM, YOU KNOW, I, I DO THINK THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO ADDRESS THE OTHER, UM, INCENTIVES FOR, UH, FOR NEW NATURAL GAS EQUIPMENT.

SO, UM, I, MY PREFERENCE WOULD BE JUST LIKE YOU PROPOSE TO, TO MOVE THOSE FORWARD.

I DON'T HAVE ANY OBJECTION TO DIVERTING THE MONEY, BUT, UM, I IT'S, IT IS, I GUESS, KIND OF THE LOWER OF THE THREE PRIORITIES FOR ME PERSONALLY.

UM, YEAH, SO I, I DON'T WANT TO INTERRUPT IF YOU HAD OTHER THINGS TO SAY, BUT I JUST WANTED TO, SINCE MY NAME WAS STATED TO SAY THAT I DO AGREE WITH THAT.

UM, IT SHOWS A SAVINGS BECAUSE THEY, THEY, YOU KNOW, IT'S A DEEMED SAVINGS AND THEY ACCOUNT FOR THE ELECTRICITY AND, YOU KNOW, BUT NOT NECESSARILY ON, ON THE, UM, ACTUAL EMISSIONS BASIS.

NOW THAT WAS IT.

AND IF I MAY RESPOND, UM, TO IT AS WELL, AND I'M NOT, I'M NOT OPPOSED, UM, TO, TO TRYING TO PUT THE, THE NEW AND EXISTING REBATES TOGETHER AND A RESOLUTION, IF, IF WE FEEL LIKE WE CAN GET SOMETHING, UM, THAT IS WORKABLE AND PASSABLE.

UM, AND SO I CAN, CHARLOTTE, I THINK, I THINK YOU DO MAKE GOOD POINTS THERE.

UM, I AM REALLY INTERESTED IN THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION THAT YOU JUST PROPOSED ABOUT THE GREATER IMPACT OR RELATIVE IMPACT OF ONE TO THEN TO THE OTHER, WHICH I, I ADMIT I DON'T HAVE ANY SORT OF FEEL FOR, UM, PAUL.

I DON'T KNOW IF, IF YOU WOULD, OR IF THAT'S A QUESTION THAT WE CAN, WE CAN ASK OF, OF TEXAS GAS AND SAY, YOU KNOW, JUST IN TERMS OF THE PROJECTIONS, WHAT, WHAT DO WE FEEL WOULD BE THE GREATEST IMPACT? BUT I DO THINK THAT'S A, IT'S A GREAT QUESTION, AND THAT WOULD LOVE TO KNOW THE ANSWER AS WELL.

UH, UM, ALSO I KNOW THAT, UH, FOR, FOR Y'ALL WHO AREN'T IN THE, UM, AREN'T IN THE VIRTUAL SPACE, YOU CAN'T SEE THE LINK I JUST SHARED.

UM, UM, I WOULD REQUEST THAT THIS LINK BE SENT AROUND TO THE, UM, TO THE FULL COMMISSION.

IT IS A RESOLUTION THAT THE RMC PASSED IN JUNE, 2017.

I THINK THAT PERHAPS I'M THE ONLY, UH, REMAINING RMC MEMBER MAYBE REBECCA WAS ON.

I'M NOT SURE.

ANYWAY, UM, WE WE'VE BEEN HERE, WE'VE HAD THIS SIMILAR CONVERSATION.

UM, WELL, IT WAS MORE THAN FIVE YEARS AGO CAUSE THAT'S WHEN WE ACTUALLY, UH, PASSED A RESOLUTION.

UM, AND, AND YOU'LL WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS, UM, SEE THE, UH, IT RECOMMENDS A FEW THINGS, BUT ONE OF THEM I THINK IS REALLY RELEVANT TO THIS AND THAT IT IT'S SETTING A NEW GOAL, UM, OR RECOMMENDING THAT THE COUNCIL SET A NEW GOAL, UH, FOR ACTUAL NATURAL GAS USAGE REDUCTION.

AND THIS CAME OUT OF A SERIES OF QUESTIONS AND CONVERSATIONS ABOUT HOW, UM, ENERGY SAVINGS ARE CALCULATED WHEN IT COMES TO NATURAL GAS AND, UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY BE INCREASING THE USE OF NATURAL GAS AND THE WAY THEY WERE DOING THERE AND STILL ARE DOING THEIR CALCULATIONS.

[02:35:01]

UM, SO THAT'S WHY THIS BODY BACK THEN DID RECOMMEND THAT THEY MOVE TO HAVING A GOAL THAT ACTUALLY PUSHES THEM IN THE DIRECTION OF REDUCING THE USAGE OF NATURAL GAS, JUST LIKE ELECTRIC UTILITIES HAVE GOALS TO ACTUALLY REDUCE THE USAGE OF ELECTRICITY.

UM, SO I THINK THAT SORT OF GETS TO THE, UM, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE BIT, AT LEAST TO THE, THE NEW CONSTRUCTION ISSUE.

CAUSE YOU REALLY CAN'T ADD NEW EQUIPMENT, BUT EVEN IF IT'S NOT NEW CONSTRUCTION, IT, YOU SAY ARE REPLACING A ELECTRIC DRYER OR, OR AN ELECTRIC WATER HEATER WITH A NATURAL GAS.

UM, YOU'RE, YOU'RE GOING TO BE INCREASING THE USE OF NATURAL GAS.

SO THAT WOULD, UM, YOU KNOW, COUNTER AGAINST SUCH A GOAL IF, IF THEY WERE ACTUALLY, UM, TO FOLLOW THAT.

SO I JUST KIND OF WANTED TO SHARE THAT TO, YOU KNOW, PUT IN SOME CONTEXTS THAT LIKE THE, YOU KNOW, IF FOR ANYBODY WHO MIGHT BE FEELING LIKE WE MIGHT BE RUSHING OR, YOU KNOW, LIKE THIS, THIS IS, THIS HAS BEEN A VERY, VERY LONG CONVERSATION.

UM, GOING BACK, I'D SAY YEAH, FIVE TO SIX YEARS AT THIS POINT.

UH, SO YEAH, JUST WANTED TO ADD THAT CONTEXT IF I CAN JUMP IN KIND OF THING.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR SENDING THIS.

IT IS SUPER HELPFUL.

SO THIS, THIS RESOLUTION PASSED RMC.

AND DID IT, WAS IT ADOPTED BY COUNCIL OR, SORRY, WHAT? I DON'T KNOW.

I MEAN, YEAH, AS, AS YOU CAN SEE ON THERE THAT THEY GET IT PASSED UNANIMOUSLY ABOUT OF NINE TO ZERO.

UM, I DON'T KNOW THAT, UM, I GUESS IT WAS ACTUALLY A RECOMMEND THE PATIENT TO THE OFFICE OF TELECOMMUTE TELECOMMUNICATIONS AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS.

SO, UM, IT WASN'T ACTUALLY A REQUEST TO COUNCIL, WHICH PROBABLY WAS A MISTAKE ON OUR PART SINCE, UM, YEAH.

THAT'S WHERE WE SHOULD HAVE SENT THAT RECOMMENDATION.

SO, YOU KNOW, IMPROVEMENT IN THE CURRENT EFFORT, I GUESS, ON THAT FRONT.

BUT, UH, I DON'T KNOW THAT ANYTHING WAS DONE ON THIS.

I DON'T, I DON'T THINK IT WAS.

AND I THINK THE LAST TIME THAT I ASKED, UH, TEXAS STATS ABOUT THEIR CALCULATIONS, THEY CONFIRMED THAT THEY ARE NOT CALCULATING AT THIS WAY.

SO IT HAS NOT CHANGED.

REBATES AND CLOSE WASHERS WOULD BE CORRECTED TO CLOSE DRYERS NOW, UM, IS THAT WHAT I'M HEARING, UH, A GENERAL CONSENSUS ON FROM THE PEOPLE HERE? CAN I INSTEAD MAKE ONE OTHER SUGGESTION THAT MIGHT JUST, UM, RE REMOVE SOME MESSINESS THAT MAYBE WE, UM, MAYBE WE DON'T HAVE TO, UM, EVEN SAY THE PIECE ABOUT COST-EFFECTIVENESS AND THE CALCULATIONS IN THIS RESOLUTION.

UM, SORRY, I HAVE A FEW THOUGHTS, BUT I DON'T WANT TO OPEN TO OTHERS AS WELL, BUT I THINK WHAT DOES MAKE SENSE FOR THIS RESOLUTION IS, I MEAN, IT IS SAYING THAT THE, THE RMC WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT THE BENEFIT TO COST RATIO OF GREATER THAN ONE, YOU KNOW, FOR, FOR REBATES, WHICH IS, I MEAN, THAT, THAT'S KIND OF A SIMPLE WAY TO, TO, YOU KNOW, FOR NOW, FOR US TO ARGUE OVER A SPECIFIC REBATE OR SPECIFIC APPLIANCE AND HOW COST EFFECTIVE IT IS.

BUT BASICALLY THAT WE'D LIKE TO SEE THAT THAT RATIO WOULD BE GREATER THAN ONE, FEELS LIKE A, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, A THOUGHTFUL WAY TO STATE THAT OBJECTIVE.

UM, SO THAT, THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.

UM, AND THEN THE, THE OTHER THING I DO THINK THAT THE, THE, YOU KNOW, GOALS FOR NATURAL GAS USAGE, UM, KEEPING UP TOTAL OF 5% OF OUR NEXT FIVE YEARS, STARTING IN 2018, THAT WOULD HAVE GONE TO 20, 23 HADN'T PASSED.

UM, RIGHT.

SO THAT, I, I THINK THAT THAT IS SUPER INTERESTING.

AND ALSO IT TAKES INTO ACCOUNT THE POINT THAT CHARLOTTE, HE BROUGHT UP ABOUT LIKE WHAT, WHAT, WHICH OF THESE THINGS HAS THE GREATEST IMPACT IN TERMS OF REDUCING CONSUMPTION, UM, OR, OR, UM, CONSERVATION.

UM, SO I GUESS MY, MY IMMEDIATE REACTION TEVA IS, IS THANK YOU.

THIS IS SUPER HELPFUL.

UM, AND IT, IT DOES FEEL LIKE IT COULD GIVE US SOME GOOD LANGUAGE FOR CONSIDERATION AS WE'RE THINKING ABOUT HOW TO STRUCTURE, UM, THE, THE NEXT VERSION OF THIS.

SO WE'D LIKE TO TAKE UP AT THE NEXT MEETING AND TO MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THEN REVISED RESOLUTION WILL REMOVE THE WISHFUL SPENDING PART AT THE END AND WILL POSSIBLY REMOVE THE COOPERATION WITH WATER UTILITIES.

UH, BUT THE FIRST TWO TENANTS, UH, WOULD STAY IN AND THEY INCLUDE NEW CONSTRUCTION REBATES AND EXISTING CONSTRUCTION

[02:40:01]

I THINK THAT THERE ARE OTHER REASONS THAT WE CAN LEAN ON AND MAYBE IT JUST AVOIDS, UM, A NEVER-ENDING ARGUMENT ABOUT WHOSE NUMBERS ARE, RIGHT.

ALTHOUGH PAUL, I AM CURIOUS WHERE YOU GOT THE RECEIPTS AGAIN, WAS THAT FROM TEXAS GAS, OR I MISSED YOUR WORD WHERE I GOT THE, WHAT KYLA, THE RECEIPTS THAT YOU'VE BEEN USING RECEIPTS.

I, UM, GOT THEM FROM TEXAS GAS SERVICE BY, UM, UM, NAGGING RHONDELLA HAWKINS TO DEATH.

UH, I BASICALLY AT THE TIME THERE WAS GOING TO BE, UH, SOMETHING TANTAMOUNT TO A RATE CASE.

THIS WAS GOING TO COME UP BEFORE CITY COUNCIL, AND I SAID, I DEMAND THE RIGHT TO GATHER EVIDENCE.

AND WHEN SHE IGNORED ME, I WENT TO THE CITY ATTORNEY.

AND THE NEXT THING I KNEW I WAS GETTING THE RECEIPTS, BUT I WAS ONLY GIVEN A FRACTION OF WHAT, THE NUMBER THAT I REQUESTED.

AND AGAIN, I'LL BE HAPPY TO SHARE, DEPENDING ON THE GRANULARITY THAT THIS COMMISSION WANTS.

I CAN SHARE THE SUMMARY SPREADSHEET, OR I CAN GIVE YOU THE, UH, I CAN SHOW YOU THE COPIES OF EVERY SINGLE ONE THAT I REVIEWED.

THANK YOU, PAUL.

I, I STILL, STILL AM.

AM I, UM, IF, IF W CHI TO FOLLOW YOUR SUGGESTION, IF WE ELIMINATE, UH, THE, UM, LANGUAGE ABOUT COST-EFFECTIVENESS FOR EXISTING, UH, UM, WATER HEATERS, FURNACES, AND CLOTHES DRYERS, THEN IT BECOMES SUBJECTIVE.

AND I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM, BUT THEN SOMEONE COULD TURN AROUND AND ARGUE THAT, WELL, YOU'RE JUST DOING THIS BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE IT.

AND NOT BECAUSE IT'S BASED ON ANY STANDARD.

SO, WELL, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK THAT THERE'S NO STANDARD.

I THINK THAT THERE IS A STANDARD WEED WE'VE ESTABLISHED AS A CITY THAT WE'RE TRYING TO MOVE TO ZERO CARBON EMISSIONS, UH, TO NET ZERO CARBON EMISSIONS ANYWAY.

AND, AND WE WANT TO MINIMIZE THE USE OF OFFSETS AND, YOU KNOW, UH, AT LEAST STOPPING INCENTIVES FOR FOSSIL FUEL USE USAGE.

UH, IT SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD BE, UH, IN LINE WITH THAT ESTABLISHED POLICY OBJECTIVE, BUT WHEN WE WANT TO CONTINUE FOR INSULATION.

I THINK THAT MIGHT'VE JUST BEEN, BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T CONSIDERING GUESTS DRYERS.

WHICH I MEAN THAT WHAT, THAT, DOESN'T, THAT'S NOT AN INCENTIVE FOR A NATURAL GAS APPLIANCE.

SO, AND I THINK JUST TO, UM, I HAD THE SAME THOUGHT WITH THE EXISTING INCENTIVES IT'S IT'S, WHICH IS OUR OBJECTIVE.

AND, AND I KNOW IT'S BOTH, BUT IN TERMS OF LOOKING, MOVING TOWARDS NET ZERO BUILDINGS OR, AND, OR COST EFFECTIVENESS, THOSE ARE KIND OF TWO SEPARATE ARGUMENTS BY WHICH WE'RE, YOU KNOW, CONSIDERING THESE, I DID WANT TO BRING UP THE POINT THAT IN THE CENTER POINT RESOLUTION, WE DID SAY, UM, THAT WE'D LIKE TO ENCOURAGE CENTER POINT TO CONSIDER SUBSTITUTION DUCT CEILING, CEILING INSTALLATION, AND COST-EFFECTIVE WEATHERIZATION, INSTEAD OF, UM, WE, WE, THERE, WE SAID CENTRAL FURNACE AND WATER HEATER REBATES.

UM, AND I'M SORRY, PAUL, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE WE ACTUALLY DIDN'T HAVE, UM, UH, GAS CLOTHES DRYERS IN THAT LANGUAGE, BUT THAT'S WHAT THE CENTER POINT RESOLUTION SAID.

[02:45:01]

I'M NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT SURE, BUT I THINK LIKE THOSE MIGHT'VE BEEN, THE, THEIR PROGRAM WAS EDITED.

AND I THINK MAYBE THAT'S ALL THEY WERE EVEN CONSIDERING.

I BET YOU'RE RIGHT.

THAT, THAT SOUND SOUND RIGHT.

BUT I, I, FOR ONE, WOULD, I PERSONALLY WOULD ENCOURAGE THE IDEA OF DUCT CEILING AND CEILING INSTALLATION AND COST-EFFECTIVE WEATHERIZATION AS PART OF THE REBATE PROGRAM.

I THINK THAT MAKES A WORLD OF SENSE.

AND I WOULD, THAT WOULD BE FOR THAT.

WELL, I I'M, I'M TORN HERE ON A COUPLE FRONTS, ONE I'D LIKE US TO LEAVE BEFORE 11 TONIGHT AND TWO I'M I'M GRASPING FOR SOME KIND OF CONSENSUS, SO THAT, SO THAT, UH, I CAN REWORD THIS IN A CONSTRUCTIVE WAY FOR DISCUSSION IN JULY.

AND THE ONLY THING I'M SURE OF IS YOU WANT ME TO ELIMINATE THE TAG AT THE END ABOUT WHAT THIS MONEY COULD BE USED FOR INSTEAD.

AND WE CAN TAKE THAT UP AT A LATER TIME IF WE CHOOSE TO I GET THAT.

BUT I, UM, MY, MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE, UH, WE'RE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO GET CONSENSUS ON A FINAL LANGUAGE TONIGHT, UH, BUT IT DOES NOT NEED TO WAIT UNTIL JULY TO DISCUSS IT AGAIN.

UH, YOU CAN DISCUSS THIS WITH INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION, UH, NOT IN THIS FORUM.

I CAN ONLY DISCUSS IT WITH FIVE OF THEM AS YOU NOW.

CORRECT.

AND, UM, UNFORTUNATELY, UM, I MEAN, I CAN'T CONFER WITH YOU.

I CAN'T CONFER WITH CHARLOTTE.

YOU, YOU CAN'T IN REAL TIME, BUT YOU CAN IN SEQUENCE, PLEASE BRIEFLY EXPLAIN, YOU CAN DISCUSS WITH ME AND FOUR OTHER COMMISSIONERS, THEN YOU MAKE A DISCUSS WITH THE OTHER, HOWEVER MANY COMMISSIONERS.

I MEAN, I ISN'T THAT ON A ROLLING THAT'S A CALLED THE WALK-IN COURTROOM AND IT'S NOT ALLOWED ALL.

ALRIGHT, WELL, REGARDLESS WE DO NOT NEED TO.

I'M GONNA TAKE MY BEST GUESS AT, UH, COMING UP WITH A STRAW RESOLUTION FOR THE NEXT MEETING, UH, BASED ON THE INPUT THAT I'VE RECEIVED FROM, UH, THE GOOD COMMISSIONERS HERE AND WE CAN REWORD AS APPROPRIATE.

UM, UM, ANY, ANY FINAL THOUGHTS? PAUL DANA SAID, SHE'LL MEET WITH US TO WORK OUT THE LANGUAGE AND SHE'S ALREADY PART OF OUR DANCE CARDS.

SO THAT'S ON THE UP AND UP.

SOUNDS GOOD.

YEAH, I WILL.

AND THE ONLY OTHER THING THAT I'LL SAY, AND PAUL, I HEAR YOU WHEN YOU'RE SAYING IT'S HIGHLY UNLIKELY THAT WE'RE GOING TO COME TO CONSENSUS WITH TEXAS GAS SERVICE ON IT.

BUT I DO THINK THAT IT'S WORTH THE MEDIA.

LIKE WE'RE WORTH A DISCUSSION, NOT JUST A SENDING THE LANGUAGE OVER THE FENCE, BUT MEETING WITH TEXAS GAS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEANS AND HOW, HOW IT MIGHT BE IMPLEMENTED.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT IT'S, WE'RE ALL GOING TO COME TO AGREEMENT AT THE END, BUT I THINK WE'VE, WE NEED TO GO THROUGH THAT EXERCISE.

I'M UM, I'M VERY MUCH, I'M VERY GRATEFUL FOR YOU ALL HEARING THIS OUT.

ITEM, BUT TO POTENTIAL FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS. UH, JUST AS A REMINDER, IF YOU HAVE POTENTIAL FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS, PLEASE SEND THOSE TO NATASHA AND MYSELF.

UH, ALL RIGHT, SO WE'LL MOVE ON, UH, FINAL

[5. Discuss potential future agenda items.]

AND, UH, WE WILL GET THAT MOVING.

I DID HAVE A QUESTION THERE.

YEP.

UM, WHEN DO WE HAVE TEXAS GAS COMING IN TO GIVE THEIR NEXT SCHEDULED PRESENTATION? I THINK IT'S, THEY'RE SCHEDULED FOR AUGUST, AUGUST.

ANYTHING ELSE? JUST MAYBE MY MEMORY IS, IS, ARE, IS THERE A JULY MEETING? UM, FOR, THERE WAS SOMEBODY MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT POTENTIALLY NOT HAVING A JOB BY MEETING, BUT JUST TO CONFIRM THERE, THERE IS ONE ON THE BOOKS CURRENTLY.

THERE'S A JULY MEETING SCHEDULED.

SORRY.

I'M NOT SURE WHERE THAT CAME FROM THIS DISREGARD.

UH, LAST CALL.