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[00:00:06]

LET'S GO ON THE RECORD.

SURE.

ALL RIGHT.

UM, ARE THE FOLKS IN THE BACK READY TO GO ON THE RECORD? ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

I SEE.

I CAN SEE BACK THERE FOR SOME REASON.

UM, WE ARE ON THE RECORD TODAY IS, UH, JULY 13TH, 2022.

THIS IS DAY ONE OF THE, UH, FINAL CONFERENCE IN THE AUSTIN ENERGY, 2022 BASE RATE PROCEEDING.

MY NAME IS TRAVIS VICKERY ON THE INDEPENDENT HEARING EXAMINER I'M I'M HERE TODAY WITH A TEAM, UH, FROM MY LAW FIRM, WHICH CONSISTS OF ANDREW EDGE TO MY RIGHT WITH CEL CLARK, AUSTIN JONES AND LINDA RADFORD, UH, WILL BE, THERE'LL BE ASSISTING ME WITH PRESIDING, BUT ALSO ASSISTING WITH THE WRITING OF THE FINAL REPORT.

UM, ALL RIGHT, WE'RE READY TO GET STARTED WITH APPEARANCES AND I'D LIKE TO GO PRETTY QUICKLY THROUGH APPEARANCES OF PARTICIPANTS AND REPRESENTATIVES FOR PARTICIPANTS STARTING WITH AUSTIN ENERGY.

GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR.

THOMAS MERCATO, TAYLOR DENISON, TAMMY COOPER HERE FOR AUSTIN ENERGY.

GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR.

BEN HALLMARK, UH, FOR TEXAS INDUSTRIAL ENERGY CONSUMERS WITH ME AS JOHN HUBBARD.

UH, WE MAY BE JOINED DURING THE HEARING BY KATIE COLEMAN, UH, AND TIC REPRESENTATIVE JASON MOSS FROM SAMSUNG IS ALSO HERE.

THANK YOU.

AND YOUR HONOR TO TALK TO YOUR BRO ON BEHALF OF DATA BOUNDARY.

GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR, TOD KIMBRO ON BEHALF OF DATA FOUNDRY.

THANK YOU, MR. KIMBRO.

GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR, CHRIS HUGHES ON BEHALF OF NXP AND AS WELL AS WITH ME AS A ELENA'S ARMINO OF, UH, REPRESENTING AN XP AND CHRIS READER REPRESENTING AN XP.

ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU.

HI, ASHLEY FISHER, REPRESENTING SOLAR AND STORAGE COALITION MIGHT BE JOINED LATER BY ERIC GOFF.

LINETTA COOPER WITH TWO WR.

THANK YOU.

ROGER.

BORGELT REPRESENTING HOMEOWNERS UNITED FOR RATE FAIRNESS.

THANK YOU FOR JOHN B. KAUFMAN REPRESENTING THE INDEPENDENT CONSUMER ADVOCATE OR ICA.

THANK YOU, MR. KAUFMAN, JAMES BRAZELLE AND DREW SPILLER FOR SIERRA CLUB PUBLIC CITIZEN.

AND WITH US TODAY ARE TEVA WHITE CYRUS REED, AND, UH, ADRIAN SHELLEY.

THERE MAY BE OTHERS JOINING US THIS WEEK.

ALRIGHT, THANK YOU, MR. BRAZIL, ANY OTHER APPEARANCES? OKAY.

UM, LET'S GET STARTED WITH, UH, WHAT WE WENT OVER BRIEFLY BEFORE WE WENT ON THE RECORD, BASICALLY YESTERDAY DURING THE PRELIMINARY CONFERENCE, WE ESSENTIALLY ADMITTED ALL OF THE EXHIBITS, WHICH WERE FILED, NOT AS EXHIBITS, BUT WE CONVERTED EVERYTHING THAT WAS FILED IN TERMS OF STATEMENTS OF POSITION AND, UH, ESSENTIALLY WITNESS TESTIMONY INTO EXHIBITS YESTERDAY.

AND WE'RE WORKING ON A, FOR THE RECORD, WE'RE WORKING ON A, UH, UNIFIED EXHIBIT LIST THAT WE'RE GOING TO CIRCULATE LATER IN THE PROCEEDING.

UH, WE ALSO AGREED TO BASICALLY EVERY MORNING, IF YOU THINK YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE CROSS EXAMINATION EXHIBITS AND CROSS EXAMINATION, EXHIBITS ARE EXHIBITS THAT ARE JUST USED FOR CROSS, ESSENTIALLY.

THEY'RE NOT YOUR DIRECT CASE NECESSARILY.

UH, WE AGREED TO HAVE CROSS EXAMINATION EXHIBITS UP AT THIS FRONT TABLE.

FOLKS CAN LAY THEM OUT IN THE MORNING AND THEN THOSE WHO WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT THEM TO SEE IF THEY HAVE ANY OBJECTIONS CAN TAKE A LOOK AT THEM.

UM, TO THAT END.

IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT AUSTIN ENERGY MAY HAVE SOME OBJECTIONS TO, OR AT LEAST SOME CLARIFICATION'S ON POTENTIAL CROSS-EXAMINATION EXHIBITS, WHICH WERE PUT ON THE TABLE THIS MORNING.

MR BURRITO.

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

YES.

AND YOU'LL EXCUSE ME, BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN GETTING SOME OF THESE, UH, EXHIBIT LIST OVER EMAILS LAST NIGHT AND THIS MORNING, AS WELL AS, UM, BEING PLACED ON THE TABLE.

SO I'LL TRY TO MOVE THROUGH THIS AS QUICKLY AND EFFICIENTLY AS I CAN.

SO I'LL START WITH THE ICA EXHIBITS AND AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THEY'VE GOT WHAT LOOKS LIKE.

I BELIEVE FIVE EXHIBITS, THREE ARE RESPONSES TO OUR, TO THEIR DISCOVERY REQUESTS.

I HAVE NO OBJECTIONS TO ANY OF THOSE.

UM, THEN THERE IS AN EXPERT THAT LOOKS LIKE IT'S OFF OF THE ORPHAN ENERGY, UH, WEBSITE AND DON'T HAVE ANY OBJECTION TO THAT EITHER.

ALTHOUGH WE MIGHT NEED OPTIONAL COMPLETENESS, UM, RESERVED, UH, AND THEN FINALLY THERE'S AN EXCERPT FROM PRINCIPLES OF PUBLIC UTILITY RATES.

AGAIN, UM, I DON'T HAVE AN OBJECTION, BUT WE WOULD RESERVE OPTIONAL COMPLETENESS.

DID I MISS ANYTHING? WE MIGHT HAVE TO INCLUDE ALL, BUT CLARENCE, ANY, ANY, UH, DID I MISS ANYTHING? DID I MISS ANY ICA EXHIBIT? OKAY.

SO THAT'S WHERE WE ARE ON THEIR EXHIBITS.

ALL RIGHT.

SO A TOTAL OF FIVE EXHIBITS FOR CROSS

[00:05:01]

OR YEAH, THOSE ARE POTENTIAL CROSS EXHIBITS.

OKAY.

POTENTIAL CROSS EXHIBITS, PLEASE.

UM, AND THIS GOES FOR EVERYONE, PLEASE MAKE SURE THAT IF YOU ENDED UP USING THEM THAT YOU HAVE THEM, I MEAN, THEY NEED TO BE MARKED, I'D LIKE TO REFER TO THEM ON THE RECORD.

THIS IS ICA EXHIBIT SIX, YOU KNOW, LET'S MARK THEM AND MAKE SURE THAT, THAT YOU PROVIDE THEM TO US.

UM, I WANT TO ADMIT THOSE, ARE YOU READY TO OFFER THOSE EXHIBITS OR DO YOU KNOW WHEN NOT YOU'RE GONNA BE USING THEM? UM, YES.

I MEAN, I, YEAH, I COULD OFFER THEM NOW IF THAT LET'S JUST DO IT AND, UM, AND MAKE SURE I GET THE RIGHT NUMBERS, I DON'T HAVE, UM, I WOULD, UM, SUGGEST THAT, UH, THE RESPONSE TO ICA FOR DASH EIGHT WOULD BE EXHIBIT ICA SIX.

AND THEN THE RESPONSE TO ICA FOR 11 WOULD BE EXHIBIT ICA SEVEN.

THE RE AM I GOING TOO FAST? NO.

OKAY.

THE RESPONSE TO ICA FOUR DAYS 12 WOULD BE ICA EXHIBIT ICA EIGHT, THE, UM, THE EXCERPT FROM THE AUSTIN ENERGY, UH, WEBSITE, WHICH IS THAT SHOWING THE, UH, RESIDENTIAL RATES THAT WOULD BE ICA EXHIBIT ICA NINE TWO PAGES, AND DO NOT OBJECT TO ADDING MORE FOR CONTEXT, IF THAT'S WHAT MR. MERCATO WOULD LIKE.

AND THEN FINALLY, THE EXCERPT FROM THE BOND, BRIGHT PRINCIPLES OF PUBLIC UTILITY RATES PAGES TWO 90 AND 2 91 THAT WOULD BE EXHIBIT ICA 10, ALL RIGHT.

SUBJECT TO, UH, AUSTIN ENERGY'S RIGHT.

TO, UH, PROVIDE THE REST OF THOSE DOCUMENTS AND HAD A REAL OPTIONAL COMPLETENESS.

THOSE EXHIBITS ARE ADMITTED.

UH, THAT'S ICA EXHIBITS, SIX THROUGH 10.

UH, NEXT WE HAVE TIC EXHIBITS AND I WAS GIVEN THIS NOTEBOOK WITH 18 EXHIBITS.

UM, THE ONLY ONES THAT I WOULD MAKE OBSERVATIONS ON, UM, EXHIBIT 14 ARE, ARE SOME COMMENTS FROM SIERRA CLUB AND A PROJECT OVER AT THE PC.

UM, OBVIOUSLY THAT'S, YOU KNOW, HEARSAY TO OUR WITNESSES.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE USING THEM FOR OUR WITNESSES.

ALL RIGHT.

UH, THEN THERE'S A COUPLE OF, UM, REFERENCES TO PURA AND, AND AN ORDER, UH, WHICH WE COULD TAKE JUDICIAL NOTICE OF, BUT I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THESE SMALL EXCERPTS COMING HERE.

OKAY.

SO ON EXHIBIT 14, LET'S SEE HOW IT'S GOING TO BE USED.

AND IF A WITNESS CAN BASICALLY CHAT ABOUT IT, IT'LL, IT'LL GET THE WEIGHT THAT IT DESERVES.

SO IF IT'S ALL RIGHT, THAT WE JUST ADMITTED UNDER THOSE CONDITIONS.

TOTALLY GOOD.

ALL RIGHT.

SO TIA, YOU SEE A ONE THROUGH 18, UH, LET THE RECORD REFLECT, I'VE BEEN ADMITTED, UM, NOW IN TERMS OF ANYTHING THAT IS OUT OF, UH, UH, PUC DOC NUMBER OR A REFERENCE TO PURE UP, WHEN I SAY ADMITTED, JUST PLUG IN THE IDEA THAT I'M TAKING NOTICE OF IT.

SO I THINK YOUR HONOR, ONE CLARIFICATION ON THAT WOULD THAT ALSO APPLY TO PUC RULES? YES.

OKAY.

YEAH, WE MARKED THEM JUST SO THE WITNESS WOULD HAVE EASY ACCESS.

THANK YOU.

THAT IS SO MUCH FASTER TO DO IT THAT WAY.

ALL RIGHT.

MOVING ON.

NXP HAS 15 EXHIBITS THAT THEY'VE PRESENTED TO US.

UM, GOT A COUPLE OF COMMENTS, UM, ON SIX AND SEVEN, THOSE ARE SCHEDULES FROM, UH, BROWNSVILLE, PUBLIC UTILITY BOARD OR LCRA, UM, UH, RELATED TO CASHFLOW METHOD.

UM, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, WE DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THEM USING THESE DOCUMENTS.

UM, BUT I WOULD NOTE THAT THESE ARE HEARSAY AS TO OUR WITNESSES AND IT'S, IT'S, UH, NOT CLEAR, UM, WHETHER THEY WILL BE ABLE TO SPEAK TO THOSE OR DEFEND THEM IN ANY WAY.

UM, NORMALLY I WOULD PROBABLY BE OBJECTING TO THEM, BUT WE'LL SEE HOW IT GOES.

UM, THEN THEY'D GOT, UM, WHAT, WHAT MAY BE AN XR OR THE ENTIRE PC NON IOU TRANSMISSION COSTS, THE SERVICE RATE, FALLING PACKAGE INSTRUCTIONS.

AND WE, WE WOULD RESERVE OPTIONAL COMPLETENESS TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY'RE NOT INCLUDING THE ENTIRE DOCUMENT AND IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO HAVE ADDITIONAL EXPERTS INCLUDED FOR FAIRNESS.

UH, THE SAME WOULD BE TRUE ON EXHIBIT 14, WHICH IS LABELED AS THE BOOK ON DISTRIBUTION COST ALLOCATION.

I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY.

UM, WELL, I HAVE IT HERE.

SO, UM, I WOULD SAY AGAIN, OPTIONAL COMPLETENESS, UH, WOULD BE RESERVED ON THAT ITEM.

UH, THAT'S IT WITH RESPECT TO NXP EXHIBITS.

[00:10:01]

OKAY, YOUR HONOR.

THIS IS CHRIS READER.

I CAN SPEAK TO MR. COMMENTS, NOT OBJECTIONS, SHALL WE SAY? UM, LIKEWISE, WE CAN BE PRETTY INFORMAL ABOUT THIS TOO.

ON THE FIRST TWO, WHICH WERE NXP SIX AND AN XP SEVEN, NOT OFFERING THOSE TO PROVE ANY OF THE FACTS THAT ARE IN THOSE DOCUMENTS IS PRIMARILY GOING TO BE FOR PURPOSES OF CROSS.

I CAN EITHER OFFER IT AS A DEMONSTRATIVE, OR I CAN ASK YOU TO TAKE NOTICE OF THE FILING OF THOSE AT THE PUC, UH, BUT NOT FOR THE TRUTH OF ANY, UH, OF THE INFORMATION CONTAINED THERE IN HOWEVER, Y'ALL WANT TO HANDLE IT AS FINE.

AND AS TO OPTIONAL COMPLETENESS, WE HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT.

RIGHT.

OPTIONAL COMPLETENESS.

WE'LL ALWAYS, I MEAN, WE'RE ALWAYS GOING TO GRANT THAT IF YOU WANT TO, IF YOU WANT TO COMPLETE A DOCUMENT, UM, FOR EXHIBIT SIX AND SEVEN, I AGREE WITH YOUR APPROACH.

AND THEN IN MR. BROCADE, I WOULD HOPE THE AUSTIN ENERGY WOULD AGREE WITH THAT, BUT BASICALLY IT'S GOING TO FACILITATE A TESTIMONY AND, UM, WE CAN TAKE NOTICE OF IT.

WE'LL TAKE NOTICE OF THOSE TWO DOCUMENTS TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY'VE BEEN FILED, NOT NECESSARILY THAT ANYTHING WITHIN THOSE DOCUMENTS IS, IS, UH, TRUE.

CORRECT.

IT'S NOT BEING OFFERED TO SHOW THAT WHATEVER BROWNSVILLE OR LCRA SAID IS THE TRUTH.

IT'S BEING OFFERED TO SHOW THAT IT WAS FILED WITH THE PUC.

OKAY.

OKAY.

SUBJECT TO THAT.

UM, IT LOOKS LIKE AUSTIN ENERGY IS OKAY WITH THE ADMISSION, UH, ONE THROUGH 14, OR IS IT ONE THROUGH, I MEAN, THEY'RE ALREADY ATTENDING PER YESTERDAY ONE OR TWO, ONE THROUGH 15 SINCE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THEM.

OKAY.

UM, DATA FOUNDRY.

I KNOW THAT YOU PUT THEM ON THE TABLE AND I THINK I EVEN TOOK A COPY, BUT I CAN'T FIND IT.

UH, I CAN EITHER GO OVER THERE OR DID YOU GIVE ME A COPY? UH, I DID NOT HAND YOU A COPY OF ALL YOUR OWN.

THERE MAY BE.

THERE SHOULD BE A COUPLE UP THERE.

THANKS SO MUCH.

YES.

UH WE HAVE NO OBJECTIONS TO ANY OF THESE, UH, EXHIBITS, WHICH ARE LABELED ONE THROUGH 10 DATA FOUNDRY EXHIBITS, ONE THROUGH 10 ARE ADMITTED, UH, AND THEN TO W R THEY PROVIDED US 17 EXHIBITS YESTERDAY.

AND THEN TWO MORE, I BELIEVE THIS MORNING IS THAT THE TOTALITY OF, OKAY.

AND SO, UH, EXHIBIT THREE, UH, MS. COOPER'S OFFERING HER OWN DISCOVERY RESPONSE TO AUSTIN ENERGY'S DISCOVERY.

UH, AND WE WOULD OBJECT TO THAT MICROPHONE.

SORRY.

THANK YOU FOR REMINDING ME.

I APOLOGIZE.

THIS IS LINETTA WITH TWO WR, UH, IN THE REBUTTAL TESTIMONY OF MR. BONE AND HIS, HE ATTACHED THE, UH, MY, MY RESPONSE THAT I HAVE INCLUDED AS EXHIBIT NUMBER THREE, AND IT LOOKED LIKE IT WASN'T THE COMPLETE EXHIBIT.

AND SO TO THE EXTENT, UNDER THE TEXAS RULES OF EVIDENCE, 1 0 6 AND 1 0 7, I'M ASKING FOR OPTIONAL COMPLETENESS, AND IT IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED AT THE SAME TIME.

THE ATTACHMENT THAT'S IN MR. RAMONE'S REBUTTAL TESTIMONY SHOULD BE CONSIDERED.

OKAY.

ANY RESPONSE TO THAT FROM AUSTIN ENERGY IN TERMS OF OPTIONAL COMPLETENESS, I DON'T HAVE THE DOCUMENTS IN FRONT OF ME.

I DON'T HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT OPTIONAL COMPLETENESS IF IT IS ADMISSIBLE.

UH, AND IF WE INCLUDED IT IN OUR REBUTTAL TESTIMONY, THEN OBVIOUSLY IT'S IN THE RECORD AND WE HAVE NO OBJECTION TO IT.

I'D LIKE AN OPPORTUNITY AND IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE RIGHT NOW JUST TO CONFIRM THAT BECAUSE I'M LOOKING AT MR. RAVEN AND HE'S NOT ABLE TO CONFIRM IT EITHER.

OKAY.

UH, DO YOU HAVE THE REBUTTAL TESTIMONY HERE NOW? AND I CAN QUICKLY CHECK ON, OKAY.

CAN YOU GIVE ME THE EXHIBIT NUMBER ONE MORE TIME OR EXHIBIT RIVERS? IT'S TWO WR THREE.

OKAY.

LET'S GO OFF THE RECORD FOR JUST A MINUTE.

YOU WANT ME TO DO THAT NOW? LET'S GO BACK ON THE RECORD.

ALL RIGHT, MR. BROOKLYN, IT IS INCLUDED, UH, AS PART OF, UM, AUTHOR ENERGY'S REBUTTAL CASE AS AN ATTACHMENT, THEREFORE IT'S ALREADY IN THE RECORD AND WE DO NOT HAVE AN OBJECTION, AND I DON'T HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT OPTIONAL COMPLETENESS, RIGHT? TWO WR THREE IS ADMITTED ANY OTHER.

AND IN THAT SAME, UH, VAIN, UM, UH, EXHIBITS FOUR, FIVE, AND SEVEN, ALL APPEAR TO BE, UM, EXCERPTS FROM A LARGER DOCUMENT.

AND AS WE'VE SAID BEFORE, WE WOULD RESERVE OPTIONAL COMPLETENESS FOR THOSE ITEMS.

[00:15:02]

OKAY.

SUBJECT TO THAT, THEY ARE ADMITTED.

SO THAT'S TWO WR ONE THROUGH WHERE ARE WE? YEAH.

YOU DON'T HAVE ONE THROUGH 17 NUMBER W W UH, WE DO NOT HAVE AN OBJECTION TO EITHER OF THESE EXHIBITS THAT OUR OWN DISCOVERY RESPONSES.

UM, IF WE MAY, COULD WE JUST LABEL THEM NOW? YOU'VE GOT THE RESPONSE TO TWO .

DO YOU WANT TO MAKE THAT 18 OR 19? OKAY.

MS. GILBERT, YOUR MICROPHONE.

I'M SORRY.

SO I THINK IN MY HEAD.

OKAY.

AND THANK YOU FOR THAT.

UH, SO YES, SIR.

THAT WOULD BE FINE.

SO WE'RE GOING TO GET 18.

YES, SIR.

THAT'D BE FINE.

ALRIGHT.

AND THEN THE RESPONSE TO FFC ONE DASH FIVE WILL BE TWO W OUR EXHIBIT NUMBER 19, IS THAT ALRIGHT? AND WE HAVE NO OBJECTION TO THOSE.

ALL RIGHT.

THEY ARE ADMITTED, UH, 1, 3 19 ARE ADMITTED SUBJECT TO WHAT WE'VE JUST SPOKEN ABOUT IN TERMS OF OPTIONAL COMPLETENESS.

UM, OKAY.

THAT'S EVERYTHING WE'VE RECEIVED THAT I'M AWARE OF.

MR. .

I REMEMBER WHEN YOU, UH, IF YOU COULD JUST ANNOUNCE YOUR, UM, PAUL ROBBINS, MR. .

UH, I BROUGHT IN, UH, POSSIBLE, UH, EXHIBITS, UH, WHEN I, UH, ARRIVED.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU LOOKED AT THEM.

I GAVE THEM TO THE JUDGE'S CLERK.

UH, IF YOU HAVE RESERVATIONS, I'D RATHER DEBATE THEM NOW THAN LATER.

SURE.

I'M NOT SEEING THEM.

IF I CAN GET A COPY OR HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THEM, I'M HAPPY TO RESPOND, YOUR HONOR.

LET'S GO OFF THE RECORD FOR JUST A SECOND.

OKAY.

UM, LET'S GO BACK ON THE RECORD.

SO, UM, JUST TO CLEAN SOMETHING UP, UH, NXP, AS I UNDERSTAND, IT HAS TWO ADDITIONAL EXHIBITS, 16 AND 17, WHICH I DID NOT REFERENCE, AND ACTUALLY WASN'T AWARE OF, UH, BUT WE'VE LOOKED AT THOSE AND WE DO NOT HAVE OBJECTIONS TO EITHER ONE OF THOSE EXHIBITS.

THEY'RE ADMITTED.

SO NOW SHIFTING OVER TO MR. ROBBINS, UM, HE HAS TWO DOCUMENTS.

THE FIRST IS ROBIN'S DISCOVERY THREE DASH ONE A AND THREE DASH ONE B.

UH, I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE EXHIBIT NUMBER IS.

WE CAN JUST USE THE NEXT ONE.

IS THERE.

I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE THE EXHIBIT LIST IN FRONT OF ME.

UM, DO WE KNOW, UM, LET'S GO OFF THE RECORD FOR A MINUTE.

LET'S GO ON THE RECORD.

THERE WAS ONE POSITION STATEMENT THAT I SENT IN A TIMELY MANNER, AND THEN I'M TRYING TO, UH, DO WHAT THE JUDGE SUGGESTED YESTERDAY, WHICH IS TO PRESENT TWO COPIES OF WHAT I MIGHT DISCUSS TODAY.

UH, THE FIRST THING THAT MR REFERENCED WAS SIMPLY A REPRINT OF DISCOVERY THAT I'VE BEEN GIVEN BY AUSTIN ENERGY, UH, LAST MONTH.

SO THAT, THAT IS LET'S LET THE RECORD REFLECT THAT.

I THINK YOU'RE REFERRING TO ROBBINS DISCOVERY, THREE DASH ONE A AND THREE DASH ONE B.

I'M GOING TO MARK THAT AS ROBIN'S EXHIBIT TWO.

CORRECT.

ALL RIGHT.

LET'S DEAL WITH ROBIN'S EXHIBIT TWO FIRST, MR. BROOKE HEDO.

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

THE COVER SHEET SAYS THIS IS DISCOVERY THREE .

IT'S NOT CLEAR TO ME IF THIS IS A DISCOVERY RESPONSE.

IT IS FROM AUSTIN ENERGY.

UH, I, I DID A SCREENSHOT.

IT SEEMED LIKE THE BEST WAY TO DOCUMENT IT.

WELL, HERE'S ONE WAY TO DEAL WITH THAT.

UM, YOU KNOW, IF HE, IF HE WANTS TO CROSS EXAMINE A WITNESS ON THIS DOCUMENT, OKAY.

IF AUSTIN ENERGY CAN LOCATE AND CONFIRM THAT THESE ARE IN FACT FROM DISCOVERY, UM, THEN IT'LL, WE CAN ADMIT IT, BUT IN TERMS OF JUST USING IT FOR CROSS EXAMINATION, LET'S SEE WHERE THAT GOES.

UM, SAME THING FOR ROBIN'S EXHIBIT.

WHAT IS ROBIN'S EXHIBIT THREE? IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S A, IT'S A, IT'S A POWER POINT THAT, THAT I WILL BE PRESENTING, UH, DURING CROSS.

THIS IS

[00:20:01]

YOUR POWERPOINT.

YES, SIR.

OKAY.

AND I DO WANT TO SPEAK TO THAT.

OKAY.

UM, SO YES, UH, WITH RESPECT TO ROBBINS, EXHIBIT TWO, UH, IF IT'S OUR DISCOVERY RESPONSE, OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE NO CONCERNS ABOUT THAT.

I TRUST THAT MR. ROBINSON'S ASSERTION IS CORRECT.

ALTHOUGH WE ARE SUBJECT TO CHECK SUBJECT TO CHECK, AND IF WE NEED TO OPTIONALLY COMPLETE IT WITH THE REST OF THAT RESPONSE, WE WOULD REQUEST THAT WE BE ABLE TO DO THAT.

SO, SO THAT'S WHERE WE ARE ON TO UNPACK ROBIN'S EXHIBIT THREE.

SO FOR, FOR SEVERAL YEARS, MR. ROBBINS HAS PRESENTED BEFORE AUSTIN ENERGY AND THE CITY OF AUSTIN ALLEGATIONS, THAT THERE ARE CUSTOMERS WHO HAVE INAPPROPRIATELY BEING BEEN INCLUDED IN THE CAP PROGRAM, BASICALLY THAT THERE ARE INDIVIDUALS WHOSE INCOME LEVELS EXCEED THE REQUIREMENTS FOR BEING ON THE CAP PROGRAM.

WE ARE NOT CHANGING THE CAP PROGRAM.

IN THIS CASE, WE ARE NOT CHANGING THE CAP RATES IN THIS CASE, AS WE HAVE STATED REPEATEDLY, THIS IS A BASE RATE CASE.

WHAT MR. ROBBINS HAS DONE HAS BEEN, IT APPEARS GO TO THESE INDIVIDUALS HOMES AND TAKE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THEM AND PRESENTED THEM HERE ALONG WITH THEIR ADDRESS.

AND I GUESS THE VALUE OF THEIR HOMES, WHICH WE BELIEVE IS OUT OF SCOPE, INAPPROPRIATE AND HEARSAY TO OUR WITNESSES.

MOREOVER, IF MR. ROBBINS HAD WANTED TO INCLUDE THIS IN HIS POSITION STATEMENT, HE COULD HAVE DONE SO WE MAY HAVE OBJECTED, BUT HE COULD HAVE DONE.

SO THEN, SO WE DO HAVE AN OBJECTION TO THE, REALLY, TO THE ADMISSIBILITY AND EVEN THE USE OF THIS IN CROSS EXAMINATION.

UM, IF MR. POTATO HAD THOROUGHLY READ MY POSITION STATEMENT, HE WOULD HAVE SEEN ONE OF THOSE PICTURES IN IT, AND HE DID NOT.

AUSTIN ENERGY DID NOT OBJECT, YOUR HONOR.

UH, THIS IS A DISTRACTION.

UH, LET ME REPEAT WHAT I HAVE SAID IN WRITING PROBABLY SEVERAL TIMES THAT IS THAT I AM NOT DISPUTING THE PASS THROUGH COSTS OF CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE.

I AM DISPUTING THE PRUDENCE OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS GIVEN TO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT DESERVE THIS DISCOUNT.

I THINK I DESERVE TO BE ABLE TO APPROVE MY CASE AND IF AUSTIN ENERGY OBJECTS, THEY CAN SAY SO IN THEIR CLOSING BRIEF, ALL RIGHT.

ANY, ANY RESPONSE ADMINISTER ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS FOR THE CAP PROGRAM ARE INCLUDED IN BASE RATES, WHICH IS WHY I DID NOT OBJECT TO EXHIBIT NUMBER ONE.

I DID SEE THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT HE INCLUDED IN HIS TESTIMONY.

UH, AND FRANKLY, WE TRIED TO BE ACCOMMODATING.

WE ACTUALLY DID NOT FOLLOW A MOTION TO STRIKE.

HE'S CORRECT.

WE DID ADDRESS THESE ISSUES, UH, IN OUR REBUTTAL.

ALTHOUGH WE DO NOTE THAT WE BELIEVE THAT IT'S, IT'S BEYOND THE SCOPE OF THIS PROCEEDING.

SO WE STILL HAVE OUR, OUR OBJECTION.

UM, TELL YOU HOW I WANT TO HANDLE THIS, MR. ROBBINS.

UM, AND WE ARE, WE ARE ON THE RECORD.

UM, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT ONE HOUR TOTAL FOR EVERYTHING AFTER WE GET PAST THIS STAGE, WHICH I HOPE WILL HAPPEN VERY SOON.

UM, YOU HAVE ONE HOUR TOTAL.

AND SO HERE'S WHAT I'M GOING TO DO.

UM, YOU CAN USE ROBIN'S EXHIBIT THREE AS A DEMONSTRATIVE.

YOU CAN ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT IT, BUT JUST KEEP IN MIND THAT WHEN WE FIGHT, WRITE THE FINAL REPORT, IF WE THINK THAT YOU'VE GONE INTO TERRITORY, THAT WE DON'T THINK IS RELEVANT TO THE BASE RATE REVIEW, WE'RE LIMITED THAT THIS TRIBUNAL INDEPENDENT HEARING EXAMINER POSITION IS LIMITED TO THE POWERS THAT ARE WITHIN THE PROCEDURAL GUIDELINES.

AND BASICALLY I DON'T HAVE UNLIMITED POWER TO REVIEW THINGS THAT ARE NOT RELEVANT.

SO IF WE FIND, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS YOU SPEND 30 MINUTES OF YOUR 60 MINUTES OF TIME ON THIS ISSUE, AND THEN WE LATER FIND, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE JUST DON'T THINK MUCH OF THAT WAS RELEVANT.

WE MAY SAY THAT, BUT I'LL TELL YOU WHAT WE'RE GOING TO LET YOU GO INTO IT AS MUCH AS YOU WANT.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT IT'S NOT RELEVANT YET BECAUSE OF WHAT MR. BUKIDO JUST SAID AND WHAT YOU ALSO SAID, BUT IN TERMS OF ADMITTING IT AS EVIDENCE AT THIS MOMENT, LET'S HOLD OFF, BUT YOU CAN DEFINITELY USE IT AS A DEMONSTRATIVE FOR NOW.

OKAY.

IT'LL BE ADMITTED AS A DEMONSTRATIVE.

[00:25:01]

ANY PROBLEM WITH THAT? I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT.

JUDGE, TWO THINGS.

I GO BY THE OLD MAXIM THAT BREVITY IS REWARDED.

UH, I WROTE MY SPEECH OUT LAST NIGHT TO EXPEDITE IT.

UH, SO I UNDERSTAND COMPLETELY AND SECOND, UH, YOUR PROVISO, YOUR WARNING ABOUT THIS MAY OR MAY NOT BE CONSIDERED, GOES FOR ANY PIECE OF EVIDENCE FROM ANY OF THE PARTIES.

SO I GET IT.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

AND AGREE.

OF COURSE, THAT'S ALWAYS, THAT'S ALWAYS THE CASE, BUT I AGREE.

ALL RIGHT.

ARE WE READY TO GET STARTED? UH, YOUR HONOR, MR. COOPER, UM, JUST ONE MORE THING, UH, FROM OUR TECHNOLOGY FOLKS, THEY'RE ASKING ONCE AGAIN TO PLEASE USE THE MICROPHONE WHEN YOU ARE SPEAKING.

ALSO, IF YOU ARE NOT SPEAKING, SPEAKING, PLEASE IMMEDIATELY TURN IT OFF.

IF WE HAVE A ROUND THREE OF THE MICROPHONES IN USE, THEN THAT'S WHEN WE'RE GETTING THE FEEDBACK.

AND SO WE RECOGNIZE THAT YOURS WILL LIKELY BE ON PERHAPS MOST OF THE TIME, UH, AND THEN WE'LL HAVE WITNESSES AND THEN AN ATTORNEY.

SO JUST KEEP THAT IN MIND IF EVERYONE WILL CAUSE WE'RE TRYING TO GET THE BEST QUALITY VIDEO WE CAN.

CAUSE I KNOW EVERYONE WANTS THAT TRANSCRIPT.

SO THANK YOU.

THANK YOU, MS. COOPER.

UM, AND THANK YOU FOR IT'S A TOUGH JOB.

THANK YOU FOR STAYING ON TOP OF EVERYONE.

IT MAKES ME SEEM A LITTLE BIT NICER.

UM, YOUR HONOR CAME READY TO HAVE A PANEL, YOUR HONOR, JAMES BRAZIL FOR SIERRA CLUB.

JUST ONE QUICK QUESTION.

I WAS CURIOUS WHETHER, UH, A, HE WAS GOING TO ADDRESS OBJECTIONS TO THE EXHIBITS THAT WE JUST WERE ABLE TO HAND THEM BEFORE WE GET STARTED, OR IF THAT'S GOING TO BE SOMETHING WE'LL ADDRESS LATER ON.

UM, I WAS, DID, SO DID YOU HAVE MR. BRAZELLE, DO YOU HAVE CROSS EXHIBITS THAT YOU PROVIDED THIS MORNING? JUST THIS MORNING? UH HUH.

OKAY.

LET'S DO YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT A COUPLE OF MORE THINGS? OKAY.

NO PROBLEM.

GOING BACK TO ROBIN'S EXHIBIT TWO, WE DID LOOK AT OUR DISCOVERY RESPONSE AND WE, WE CAN'T CONFIRM THAT WE PROVE THAT WHAT IS IN EXHIBIT TWO MATCHES WHAT WE PROVIDED IT.

MOST OF IT MATCHES, BUT THERE'S AT LEAST ONE COLUMN OF NUMBERS I SAW.

I DON'T KNOW IF MR. ROBINS, IF HE ADDED ANYTHING TO IT OR CHANGED IT IN ANY WAY, PLEASE RUN THAT BY ME AGAIN, SIR.

THE FINAL, UM, COLUMN ON PAGE TWO OF THE EXHIBIT HAS A COLUMN TITLED TOTAL WITH TOM ADJUSTMENT DID AD THAT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE IT EASY FOR THE READER.

YES, I DID ADD THAT.

WELL, HERE'S HOW I WOULD LIKE TO TREAT IT.

UM, GIVE US A SECOND, MR. BUKITO.

WHAT I WAS THINKING IS, UH, YOU KNOW, IF HE'S ADDED A COLUMN OBVIOUSLY, AND WE'VE DONE IT AND YOU'VE IDENTIFIED IT FOR US, I'M GOING TO TREAT THAT AS DEMONSTRATIVE IT'S, YOU KNOW, HE CAN, HE CAN DEVELOP A DEMONSTRATIVE AND WALK US THROUGH IT, WHATEVER HE WANTS TO DO WITH IT, THE MONSTER I'M GOING TO TREAT THAT AS DEMONSTRATIVE.

UM, IF THE CITY I'M SORRY, BOSTON ENERGY, UH, LATER DETERMINES THAT THERE'S OTHER STUFF IN EXHIBIT TWO, THAT WAS NOT PART OF YOUR DISCOVERY RESPONSE.

LET'S JUST LET ME KNOW ON THE RECORD AND WE'LL MAKE NOTE OF THAT.

BUT WHAT I'D REALLY LIKE TO DO IS MOVE THIS ALONG.

AND I, I UNDERSTAND THE IDENTIFICATION OF THAT.

IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT AUSTIN ENERGY PROVIDED, WHICH IS IMPORTANT, UH, BUT I'M GOING TO TREAT IT AS DEMONSTRATIVE.

UNDERSTOOD.

OKAY.

IF I MAY JUST FOR EASE, UH, ASKED MR. ROBBINS, ARE THERE ANY OTHER ADDITIONS OR CHANGES THAT WE, THAT YOU MADE TO THIS? IF I AM RECALLING CORRECTLY? CAUSE SOME OF THIS WAS DONE LATE AT NIGHT.

I BELIEVE THAT, UM, I ADJUSTED THE SALARIES, UH, INTO A COLUMN TO ACCOUNT FOR 2080 HOURS OF WORK A YEAR, UH, MULTIPLIED BY THE HOURLY SALARY.

AND IN THREE OF THOSE, I DIVIDED IT BY HALF BECAUSE AUSTIN ENERGY SAID IN THEIR DISCOVERY THAT THOSE THREE PEOPLE WERE HALF TIME ON THE PROGRAM.

OKAY.

LET'S DO THIS.

IF PART OF EXHIBIT TWO IS IN THE RECORD AS RESPONSES TO YOUR DISCOVERY FROM AUSTIN ENERGY, IT'S ALREADY THERE.

OKAY.

SO I'M GOING TO TREAT EXHIBIT TWO, ROBIN'S EXHIBIT TWO, THE WHOLE DOCUMENT AS A DEMONSTRATIVE.

BUT WHAT I WOULD LIKE YOU TO DO IS POINT OUT TO US IF YOU'VE

[00:30:01]

ADDED A COLUMN OR YOU'VE TOTALED SOMETHING TO HELP US UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE BETTER.

JUST NOTE THAT FOR US, DO YOUR BEST TO NOTE THAT FOR US, BUT LET ME JUST TREAT THE DOCUMENT AS A DEMONSTRATIVE BECAUSE IT'S ACTUALLY CUMULATIVE OF, OF STUFF THAT'S ALREADY AT LEAST BEEN ON THE, UH, BEEN FILED ON THE AWESOME ENERGY INTERCHANGE.

SO IT'S ALREADY, IT'S ALREADY OUT THERE AND IT'S ALREADY SOMETHING THAT YOU COULD RELY ON.

OKAY.

IS THAT, HOW DOES THAT SOUND WORKS? I APPRECIATE YOUR PATIENCE, YOUR HONOR.

UM, WE WERE JUST HANDED A MOMENT AGO, FIVE EXHIBITS FROM FCPC.

IF I MAY GO THROUGH THOSE, LET'S DO CPC ONE THROUGH FIVE.

WELL, THEY ARE LABELED FIVE THROUGH NINE AND I BELIEVE THAT'S BECAUSE ONE THROUGH FOUR ARE THEY'RE DIRECT CASE.

OH, THAT'S THAT'S CORRECT.

THAT'S RIGHT.

OKAY.

SO, UM, SEPC FIVE IS ONE OF OUR DISCOVERY RESPONSES FROM MR. RAVEN TO SON ONE DASH 12.

NO OBJECTION.

SCPC SIX APPEARS TO BE A DISCOVERY RESPONSE FROM TIC.

UM, SO I MEAN WE HAVE NO OBJECTION TO IT.

IT'S IT'S A RESPONSE FROM MR. POLLOCK TO ONE OF THEIR DISCOVERY CORE CLASS.

NO OBJECTION TO ONE OF OUR DISCOVERY RESPONSES.

THANK YOU, MR. WOLMARK ALBUM.

I'M GOING TO SKIP OVER TO SEPC NINE, UH, APPEARS TO BE, UM, A RESIDENTIAL ELECTRIC TARIFF THAT'S CURRENTLY IN USE FOR AUSTIN ENERGY.

WE DON'T HAVE AN OBJECTION FOR US TO, TO OUR OWN TARIFF.

UM, AND THEN THAT LEAVES AAICPC EXHIBITS SEVEN AND EIGHT SEVEN APPEARS TO BE A NATIONAL STANDARD PRACTICE MANUAL FOR BENEFIT COST ANALYSIS OF DISTRICT DISTRIBUTED ENERGY RESOURCES, POWERPOINT FROM MARCH OF 2022 AND THEN EIGHT APPEARS TO BE IT'S THIS NOTEBOOK THAT IS A NATIONAL STANDARD PRACTICE MANUAL.

AGAIN FOR BENEFIT COST ANALYSIS OF DISTRIBUTED ENERGY RESOURCES.

WE WOULD OBJECT TO THE INCLUSION OF THESE DOCUMENTS FOR THE FOLLOWING REASONS.

NUMBER ONE, THEY'RE HEARSAY AS TO OUR WITNESSES.

NUMBER TWO, THEY WERE NOT RELIED UPON BY OUR WITNESSES.

NUMBER THREE, MR RABAGO AND PERHAPS OTHER AAICPC WITNESSES REFER TO THESE DOCUMENTS AND COULD HAVE, UM, ATTEMPTED TO, TO, UH, TO ADMIT THEM.

SO, YOU KNOW, IF, IF THEY WANT TO ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT THESE STANDARDS, UM, THEY CAN DO SO.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT OUR WITNESSES WILL SAY, BUT AS FAR AS ADMISSIBILITY, WE WOULD OBJECT.

YES, YOUR HONOR.

UH, W W WE WANT OUR INTENT IS TO USE THEM AS A DEMONSTRATIVE DEMONSTRATIVE EXHIBIT OR DEMONSTRATIVE EXHIBITS TO ASK QUESTIONS FROM, BUT WITHOUT SEEKING TO OFFER THEM AT THIS EXHIBIT FOR THE TRUTH OF THE MATTERS CONTAINED THERE IN, OKAY.

THANK YOU, MR. BRAZIL.

AND MR. ROCKAUTO S CPC FIVE, SIX, AND NINE ARE ADMITTED AS CPC SEVEN AND EIGHT ARE ADMITTED AS DEMONSTRATIVE ONLY AT THIS TIME.

AND THERE IS ONE OTHER, UH, SUPC EXHIBIT THAT'S ITEM 10.

AND IT'S JUST A COPY OF THE 2030 PLAN.

YES.

UM, I'VE NOT SEEN THAT, BUT I'M FAMILIAR WITH IT AND WE WOULD HAVE NO OBJECTION TO THAT.

UH, AND I GUESS WE'RE SORT OF OPTIONAL COMPLETENESS, ALTHOUGH I THINK WE COULD TAKE JUDICIAL NOTICE OF IT AS WELL SINCE IT'S A COUNCIL APPROVED PLAN, BUT NO OBJECTION.

OKAY.

UM, SEPC 10 IS ADMITTED SUBJECT TO OPTIONAL COMPLETENESS AND SUBJECT TO CHECK BY AND ENERGY.

UH, YOUR HONOR, BEN HALLMARK FOR TIC APOLOGIES.

UM, IF WE COULD JUST REVISIT THAT THE ONE THAT'S A TIC RESPONSE SIMPLY ON THE BASIS THAT I HAVEN'T SEEN THE EXHIBIT, UM, YES.

SUBJECT, ALL OF THIS IS SUBJECT TO CHECK.

IF IT, WHEN I ADMIT SOMETHING AND SOMEONE LATER CATCHES SOMETHING IN THE DOCUMENT, LET'S JUST TALK ABOUT IT.

LET'S RAISE IT ON THE RECORD, ADDRESS IT AND MOVE ON.

IT'S GORE HONOR.

TO THAT END.

I HAVE ONE OF THOSE FOR YOU.

WE CAN TAKE UP WHENEVER IT'S CONVENIENT.

OKAY.

DO YOU THINK, UM, HERE'S THE THING WE ALL KNOW THIS.

WE NEED TO GET STARTED ON WITNESSES ON THIS PANEL.

UH, DO YOU THINK THAT IT CAN HOLD OFF? ARE YOU GOING TO NEED IT FOR THE, FOR THE PANEL? OKAY.

IT'S BRIEF.

WE'RE MAKING SOME, BUT LET ME FINISH WITH MR. HALLMARK REAL QUICK AND SEE IF HE HAS ANY OBJECTIONS.

UH, IT APPEARS TO JUST BE OUR DISCOVERY RESPONSE.

SO NO OBJECTION.

ALL RIGHT.

IF YOU CATCH ANYTHING, JUST LET US SMELL.

OKAY.

JUST READ HER.

UH, OUR EXHIBIT TWO IS OUR CROSS REBUTTAL STATEMENT OF POSITION.

MR. DANIEL'S TESTIMONY IS WHAT IT IS ESSENTIALLY.

HE'S NOTICED A FEW VERY MINOR CLEANUP TYPE THINGS THAT HE NEEDS TO CHANGE.

MY QUESTION IS HOW SHOULD WE PRESENT THAT WEEK? WE ARE PREPARING A COMPLETELY IN A REVISED

[00:35:01]

VERSION, WHICH WE CAN JUST MOVE TO SUBSTITUTE, OR WE CAN JUST ADMIT THE NEW PAGES IS LIKE EXHIBIT TWO, A OR WE CAN DO ANYTHING YOU WANT TO DO.

I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEN WE LABEL ALL THIS STUFF, IT DOESN'T GO IN THE TRASHCAN.

UM, WELL, WOULDN'T YOU WANT TO RECYCLE IT? UH, SO SORRY.

SO, UM, YES, THE FIRST OPTION IS ALWAYS THE BEST OPTION.

HAVING SEPARATE PAGES FLOATING AROUND OUT THERE THAT WE NEED TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT.

I KNOW THAT THEY'RE JUST ONE EXHIBIT AWAY FROM THE ACTUAL EXHIBIT, BUT IF YOU COULD GET IT ALL INTO THE EXHIBIT, YOU CAN HAND, IT CAN BE HAND CORRECTIONS DOESN'T MATTER MATTER, JUST AS LONG AS WE GET THE CORRECTED VERSIONS HERE AND WE'LL SWAP THEM OUT.

AND EVERYONE WHO HAS A COPY WE'LL WE'LL GET THE CORRECTED VERSION.

THAT'S IT WE'LL HANDLE IT THAT WAY.

AND I'LL, UM, WHEN IT COMES TIME, WE'LL HANDLE IT IN THAT WAY.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

APPRECIATE IT.

AND IN THAT REGARD, WE HAVE A FEW OF THOSE AS WELL, WHICH I WOULD CONSIDER TYPICAL APPROPRIATE AND IT'S THAT ARE MADE ON THE STAND JUST HAPPENS.

IT'S THAT? THAT'S FINE.

JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE END UP WITH THE CORRECTED VERSION SO THAT WE DON'T MISQUOTE SOMETHING LATER.

UH, PLEASE.

ALL RIGHT.

ARE WE READY FOR, UH, AWESOME ENERGY PANEL? UH, I DID PREPARE AN OPENING THAT WE'D LIKE TO PROVIDE AND THEN PRESENT OUR WITNESSES IF THAT'S ACCEPTABLE.

YES.

SO LET'S START THE COUNT FOR AUSTIN ENERGY.

UM, MS. RADFORD, ARE YOU READY? I'M ON THE CLOCK.

SHE'S READY.

UM, OKAY.

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

THE REASON THAT WE ARE HERE TODAY IS BECAUSE AUSTIN ENERGY AND THE CITY OF AUSTIN ARE DEEPLY COMMITTED TO PROVIDING A THOROUGH AND COMPREHENSIVE EXAMINATION OF ITS BOOKS AND RECORDS BEFORE CHANGING HIS BASE RATES.

IT WELCOMES PARTICIPATION IN THE OPINIONS OF ITS CUSTOMERS.

OFTEN ENERGY'S RIGHTS ARE COMPRISED OF TWO COMPONENTS BASE RATES AND PASS THROUGH OR CHARGES BASE RATES ARE THE RATES AT ISSUE IN THIS PROCEEDING WITH THE EXCEPTION OF VALUE OF SOLAR TARIFF, WHICH I'LL ADDRESS LATER.

THIS CASE IS BASED UPON A COST OF SERVICE STUDY THAT COMPARES THE BASE REVENUE REQUIREMENT FOR THE TEST YEAR ENDING SEPTEMBER 30TH, 2021, ADJUSTED FOR KNOWN AND MEASURABLE CHANGES TO THE REVENUE GENERATED BY ITS CURRENT BASE RATES, WHICH WERE PREVIOUSLY SET IN 2014 WITH A 2014.

TEST YOUR, EXCUSE ME, AUSTIN ENERGY THEN CALCULATED THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THOSE TWO BALANCES TO DETERMINE THE PROPOSED CHANGES IN AUTHON ENERGIES BASE RATES.

THE COST OF SERVICE STUDY CONFIRMED THAT OFTEN ENERGIES RATES AND RATE STRUCTURES ARE NOT MEETING THE COST OF SERVING THE COMMUNITY.

IN PARTICULAR, CURRENT RESIDENTIAL BASE RATES DO NOT APPROPRIATELY RECOVER COST AUSTIN ENERGY INITIALLY PROPOSED TO INCREASE ITS BASE RATES BY $48.2 MILLION.

BUT AFTER REVIEWING THE PARTY'S POSITION STATEMENTS, OFTEN ENERGY HAS MADE ADJUSTMENTS, TOTALING $12.5 MILLION.

AND AS A RESULT OF THESE CHANGES HAS REDUCED ITS REQUEST TO 35.7 MILLION.

ADDITIONALLY, THE COST OF SERVICE STUDY RESULTS SUGGEST THAT CHANGES TO THE CURRENT RATE CLASS STRUCTURE ARE NOT ONLY WARRANTED, BUT NECESSARY TO ADDRESS THESE FINDINGS AND BRING BASE RATE FINANCIALS BACK INTO BALANCE.

OFTEN ENERGY IS PROPOSING TO NOT ONLY INCREASE ITS PAYS RATES TO ACCOUNT FOR HIGHER ONM COSTS, BUT ALSO TO UPDATE AN OUTDATED RESIDENTIAL BASE RATE STRUCTURE, WHICH DOES NOT ACCURATELY RECOVER THE COST TO SERVE CUSTOMERS.

THEY'VE ALSO PROPOSED IN THIS CASE TO BETTER RECOVER, FIXED COSTS BY RELYING LESS ON ENERGY SALES AND TO BRING CUSTOMERS CLOSER TO WHAT IT COSTS ACTUALLY SERVED THEM ESTABLISHING MORE EQUITABLE CHARGES.

AS THE COMMUNITY CONTINUES TO GROW BASE RATE CHANGES WILL ENSURE THAT OFTEN ENERGY'S FINANCIAL STABILITY ALLOWING THE UTILITY TO CONTINUE TO DELIVER AFFORDABLE, RELIABLE ELECTRIC SERVICE TO ITS CUSTOMERS.

NOW AS DISCUSSED BY AES WITNESSES, THESE CHANGES ARE NEEDED FOR SEVERAL REASONS.

OFTEN ENERGY IS LOST TO COMBINE $90 MILLION IN THE PAST TWO YEARS.

FURTHERMORE, THE CURRENT FINANCIAL CONDITION HAS RESULTED IN LESS THAN 150 DAYS OF CASH ON HAND IN VIOLATION OF THE CITY'S FINANCIAL POLICIES IN RESPONSE TO AMY'S DETERIORATING FINANCIAL CONDITION ON JUNE 28TH, JUST TWO WEEKS AGO, FITCH CREDIT RATINGS DOWNGRADED AUSTIN ENERGY FROM AA TO AA MINUS AND FITCH SIDED.

OFTEN ENERGIES ELEVATED LEVERAGE, WHICH HAS STEADILY INCREASED DURING THE PAST THREE YEARS AND WEAKER OPERATING CASH FLOWS PRIMARILY DRIVEN BY LOWER BASE RATE REVENUES THAT CONTRIBUTED TO THE UTILITIES RISING LEVERAGE, NOTABLY THIS DOWNRIGHT, EXCUSE ME, DOWNGRADE ASSUMES AT $48 MILLION INCREASES APPROVED.

IN THIS MATTER.

DESPITE THIS, SOME PARTICIPANTS RECOMMEND LOWERING THE AMOUNT OF INTERNALLY GENERATED FUNDS, AND THIS WOULD RESULT IN EVEN MORE DEBT TO PRESERVE OFTEN ENERGY'S FINANCIAL HEALTH AUSTIN ENERGY'S BASE RATE POLL PROPOSAL SHOULD BE ADOPTED.

NOW I WANT TO PROVIDE SOME CONTEXT TO THIS RATE REQUEST.

THIS IS THE THIRD BASE RATE CASE.

OFTEN

[00:40:01]

ENERGY HAS HAD SINCE 1990 FOR A PERIOD OF 28 YEARS.

IT HASN'T INCREASED ITS BASE RATES SINCE 2012 IT'S MOST RECENT BASE RATE CASE WAS IN 2016.

AND AT THAT TIME OFTEN ENERGY DECREASED RATES BY 42 AND A HALF MILLION DOLLARS.

NOW SIX YEARS LATER, AUSTIN SEEKS TO INCREASE THEM BY 35.7 MILLION STARTING IN 2023, SINCE AUSTIN ENERGY'S LAST RATE MAKING TEST YOUR PRICES AS MEASURED MONTHLY BY THE CONSUMER PRICE INDEX FOR ALL URBAN CONSUMERS, FUELS AND UTILITIES HAVE INCREASED BY 16 AND A HALF PERCENT WHILE RATES HAVE REMAINED UNCHANGED.

THERE ARE 14 PARTICIPANTS IN THIS CASE AND 10 OF THEM FILED STATEMENTS OF POSITION OR TESTIMONY.

SIX OF THEM HAVE TAKEN EXCEPTION TO AUSTIN.

ENERGY'S PROPOSED REVENUE REQUIREMENTS.

THESE ADJUSTMENTS RANGE BETWEEN 11 AND 41.7 MILLION ACCEPTANCE OF THE MAJORITY OF THE PARTICIPANTS ADJUSTMENTS TO THE REVEREND REQUIREMENT WOULD ACCELERATE THE DETERIORATION OF AUSTIN ENERGY'S FINANCIAL POSITION, DECREASE AUSTIN ENERGY'S OPERATING CASHFLOW AND FORCE OFF AND ENERGY TO EXPEND ITS CASH RESERVES AS WELL AS INCREASED DEBT.

AUSTIN IS REQUESTING ADJUSTMENTS TO HIS BASE RATES FOR REALLY THREE PRIMARY REASONS.

FIRST, THE UTILITIES FINANCIAL HEALTH IS DETERIORATING.

AS I MENTIONED, DUE TO INCREASES IN COSTS.

SECOND AUSTIN ENERGY NEEDS TO REVISE ITS RIGHT DESIGN, ESPECIALLY FOR RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS TO STABILIZE REVENUES AND MORE EQUITABLY RECOVER ITS COSTS.

FINALLY, WITHOUT BASE RATES, AUSTIN ENERGY WILL BE IN RISK OF CONTINUING TO VIOLATE FINANCIAL POLICIES ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL WITH RESPECT TO ITS RATE STRUCTURE.

AUSTIN ENERGY IS PROPOSING IN THIS CASE TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF RESIDENTIAL RATE TIERS FROM FIVE TO THREE, AS WELL AS FLATTENING THE TIERS.

THEY'RE ALSO PROPOSING ELIMINATION OF THE BASE RATE DIFFERENTIAL BETWEEN INSIDE AND OUTSIDE CITY OF AUSTIN CUSTOMERS, AS WELL AS ELIMINATING THE BILLING UNIT ADJUSTMENT THAT CURRENTLY BENEFITS, LOW LOAD FACTOR COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS, AND FINALLY INCREASING THE FIXED CHARGES FOR REVENUE RE STABILITY BY INCREASING THE RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER CHARGE FROM $10 TO $25 PER MONTH, THERE ARE SEVERAL FACTORS CAUSING THE NEEDS FOR THESE CHANGES, UNPRECEDENTED CUSTOMER GROWTH COMBINED WITH HIGH INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENT.

AND DESPITE THE INCREASED NUMBER OF CUSTOMERS LOAD GROWTH HAS NOT KEPT PACE.

CUSTOMER GROWTH BRINGS INCREASED UTILITY INFRASTRUCTURE, INVESTMENT AND COSTS, BUT BASE REVENUES HAVE LAGGED.

THE DISPARITY IS DUE IN PART TO CUSTOMER DEMOGRAPHIC TRENDS, INCLUDING INCREASING SHARE OF MULTIFAMILY UNITS, SUCH AS DOWNTOWN CONDOS AND APARTMENTS AS COMPARED TO SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, THE HOUSING MIX BECOMING SMALLER AND MORE EFFICIENT AND AN INCREASE IN ENERGY EFFICIENCY DUE TO A VARIETY OF FACTORS.

THE DECLINING AVERAGE CONSUMPTION KEEPS ENERGY SALES FLAT.

DESPITE CUSTOMER GROWTH REVENUE GROWTH IS HAMPERED BY OUTDATED RATE DESIGNS THAT RELY TOO HEAVILY ON ENERGY SALES, PARTICULARLY IN THE RESIDENTIAL CLASS ACCORDINGLY, OFTEN ENERGY PROPOSES MOVING THESE CLASSES CLOSER TO COST OF SERVICE.

NOW, DESPITE THESE IMBALANCES AUSTIN ENERGY IS MINDFUL OF RATE IMPACTS AND THE NEED FOR GRADUALISM AND AS SUCH, ALL OF A SUDDEN HAS PROPOSED MOVING THE RESIDENTIAL CLASS 50% TO COST RATHER THAN ELIMINATION OF THE ENTIRE SUBSIDY IN RESPONSE TO AES PROPOSED RESIDENTIAL RATE DESIGN CHANGES.

PARTICIPANTS HAD PRESENTED TWO BASIC ARGUMENTS EITHER TO LEAVE THE RIGHT DESIGN UNCHANGED OR TO MAKE MINOR CHANGES.

THESE POSITIONS ARE NOT ACCEPTABLE.

AUSTIN ENERGY'S CURRENT RESIDENTIAL BASE RATE DESIGN IS BASED ON A 2009 TEST YEAR.

AND RESIDENTIAL COST CONSUMPTION HAS CHANGED GREATLY OVER THE PAST 13 YEARS.

AS I NOTED IN THIS PERIOD, THE NUMBER OF CUSTOMERS WITH KWH CONSUMPTION IN LOWER TIERS PRICED BELOW COST OF SERVICE HAS INCREASED MORE THAN 40% OF RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS ARE BEING SUBSIDIZED BY OTHER RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS.

AMY'S RESIDENTIAL FAITH RATE PROPOSAL IS COMPLIANT WITH ITS FINANCIAL POLICIES AND BOND COVENANTS, AND IS CONSISTENT WITH RAINMAKING PRINCIPLES, INCLUDING GRADUALISM FINALLY SEPARATE FROM THE BASE RATE REVIEW.

OFTEN ENERGY IS PROPOSING A NEW APPROACH THAT PROVIDES GREATER TRANSPARENCY AND FLEXIBILITY.

AS WE SEEK TO ACHIEVE A VALUE SOLAR RATE DESIGN THAT FAIRLY COMPENSATE CUSTOMERS FOR THEIR ONSITE, RENEWABLE ENERGY PRODUCTION AND ADEQUATELY STIMULATES CUSTOMER SIDED, SOLAR ADOPTION TO HELP MEET THE CITY'S RESOURCE GENERATION CLIMATE PROTECTION GOALS.

AUSTIN HAS IDENTIFIED THAT SOME COMPONENTS USE TO CALCULATE THE VALUE OF SOLAR RATE ARE BASED ON ASSUMPTIONS THAT NO LONGER ALIGN WITH THE UNDERLYING COSTS AND IS THEREFORE PROPOSING A NEW METHODOLOGY THAT MORE ACCURATELY ALLOCATES COSTS IN ACCORDANCE WITH STANDARD UTILITY RATE MAKING PRACTICES

[00:45:01]

WITH THESE CHANGES, AG WILL CONTINUE TO BE A NATIONAL LEADER IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF SOLAR DEMAND, SIDE MANAGEMENT AND RENEWABLE ENERGY INITIATIVES.

I'D LIKE TO SPEAK BRIEFLY ABOUT THE PROCESS IN THIS BASE RATE REVIEW.

THIS IHG PROCESS IS UNIQUE AMONG AND AFFORDS PARTICIPANTS.

THE ABILITY TO ANALYZE AUSTIN ENERGY'S PROPOSALS WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE VALUE OF SOLAR TARIFF, WHICH A IS REQUIRED TO ADDRESS IN THIS MATTER.

THIS IS A BASE RATE CASE.

AND TO THOSE FAMILIAR WITH THE LAW AND THE STATE REGULATORY SCHEME, THIS APPROACH IS NOT UNUSUAL.

AUSTIN ENERGY ENTERED INTO A DELIBERATIVE PROCESS IN ORDER TO RECEIVE PUBLIC INPUT IN THE SETTING OF ITS BASE RATES AND TO BETTER SERVE ITS CUSTOMERS IN TOTAL, AUSTIN ENERGY HAS RESPONDED TO OVER 500 DISCOVERY QUESTIONS, HELD MULTIPLE TECHNICAL CONFERENCES AND HOSTED NUMEROUS PUBLIC MEETINGS.

NO OTHER UTILITY IN THE STATE HAS AN UNDERGONE, SUCH A COMPREHENSIVE AND TRANSPARENT PROCESS.

AND MOREOVER, THAT TRANSPARENCY EXISTS ONLY BECAUSE HE REMAINS COMMITTED TO SUCH GOALS IN CONCLUSION, AUSTIN ENERGY AS A PUBLIC POWER UTILITY AND IS OWNED BY THE COMMUNITY.

IT SERVES ITS MISSION IS TO PROVIDE CLEAN, RELIABLE, AFFORDABLE ENERGY, AND EXCELLENT CUSTOMER SERVICE.

AUSTIN ENERGY TAKES PRIDE IN SERVING THE COMMUNITY FOR OVER 125 YEARS, BUT TO CONTINUE TO MEET ITS MISSION, IT MUST REMAIN FINANCIALLY STRONG.

AND THAT IS WHAT AUSTIN ENERGY IS SEEKING IN THIS CASE TO ENSURE FINANCIAL STRENGTH.

IT EXTENDS ITS APPRECIATION TO THE IHG FOR THOUGHTFUL CONSIDERATION OF THE EVIDENCE AND PATIENTS WITH THIS PROCESS, YOUR REPORT WILL PROVIDE GUIDANCE TO AUSTIN ENERGY AND THE CITY COUNCIL ON PROVIDING BETTER SERVICE AND REACHING THE PROPER OUTCOME IN THIS CASE.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU, MR. MERCATO.

UM, ALL RIGHT, WE'VE BEEN ON THE RECORD ON AND OFF FOR AN HOUR.

UM, IT'S NOW 10.

ARE WE READY TO, UH, HAVE THE PANEL UP OR DO WE NEED TO TAKE A SHORT BREAK WHILE THE PANELS GETTING, UH, GETTING SET UP? IT'S UP TO IT'S UP TO THE PARTIES.

IT'S WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DO.

ARE YOU READY TO START WITH THE PANEL OR DO WE WANT TO TAKE A SHORT BREAK FIVE MINUTES OR SO? OKAY.

LET'S TAKE A FIVE MINUTE BREAK.

WELL, IN THE MEANWHILE WE'D ASKED THAT PANEL NUMBER ONE, GATHER THEM, WE'LL GO OFF THE ITEMS AND UM, LET'S GO ON THE RECORD AND THIS IS THE WE'RE READY TO START THE IN JUST A SECOND.

SO THIS IS THE AUSTIN ENERGY PANEL PRESENTATION.

UM, I'LL NOTE THAT, UH, BEFORE GOING ON THE RECORD, I ASKED ABOUT THE ORDER OF CROSS-EXAMINATION WAS VICTOR MARTINEZ, NATIONAL INSTRUMENTS, AND ARMA DID NOT DO NOT APPEAR TO BE HERE OR REPRESENTATIVES FOR THEM.

SO WE'RE GOING TO START OUT WITH CWR BEFORE WE DO THAT, UH, VERY BRIEFLY AT THE PANEL MEMBERS WOULD EACH, UH, JUST INTRODUCE YOURSELF, STARTING TO MY LEFT YOUR RIGHT, IF YOU WOULD PLEASE.

I'M THE DEPUTY GENERAL MANAGER, CHIEF FINANCIAL AND ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER FOR AUSTIN ENERGY.

THANK YOU.

RUSTY MARTINEZ.

I AM THE VICE PRESIDENT OF FINANCE HERE AT AUSTIN ENERGY.

HI MONICA, MONICA GONZALEZ.

I'M PRINCIPAL ACCOUNTING MANAGER HERE AT AUSTIN ENERGY.

THANK YOU, HERNANDO OR JERRY GALVAN.

UH VICE-PRESIDENT OF CUSTOMER CARE SERVICES, AUSTIN ENERGY.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU, MR. GALVAN.

OKAY.

UM, UH, FOR, TO WR ACTUALLY, YOUR HONOR, WE HAVE ONE HOUSEKEEPING MATTER, UM, AND THAT IS, UM, A CORRECTION TO BE MADE TO THE, UM, RIGHT FILING PACKAGE.

OKAY.

GIVE ME, LET'S GO OFF THE RECORD FOR JUST ONE SECOND.

ALL RIGHT.

WE'RE BACK ON THE RECORD AND MR. BROOKE CATO.

UM, THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

UH, MR. MANUS, ARE THERE ANY CHANGES THAT YOU NEED TO MAKE TO THE BASE RATE FILING PACKAGE THAT'S BEEN ADMITTED AS AUSTIN ENERGY EXHIBIT ONE? YES, SIR.

ON IS YOUR MIC ON YES, SIR.

UH, ON PAGE EIGHT UNDER THE RIGHT FILING PACKAGE AND THE PARAGRAPH TITLED MARGINAL LOAD GROWTH.

I BELIEVE IT IS THE THIRD SENTENCE.

THE SENTENCE READS THE NUMBER OF CUSTOMERS GREW AT A COMPOUNDED RATE OF 3.2% FROM FISCAL YEAR 2014 TO 2021.

IN THAT SENTENCE, STRIKE THE 3.2 AND REPLACE IT WITH 2.4.

THE NEXT SENTENCE SAYS DURING THE SAME PERIOD, AUSTIN ENERGY'S NORMALIZED RETAIL ENERGY SALES EXPERIENCED A POINT TO 9% COMPOUNDED GROWTH RATE IN THAT SENTENCE, STRIKE THE WORD NORMALIZED

[00:50:01]

AND REPLACED THE 0.9% WITH 0.6.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER CHANGES THAT YOU NEED TO MAKE AT THIS TIME? NO, SIR.

YOUR HONOR, TYPICALLY I WOULD ASK THE WITNESS TO MAKE CHANGES TO THE RECORD COPY, BUT JUST GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES WE'LL JUST DO AS YOU INSTRUCTED EARLIER AND MAKE SURE THAT THESE CHANGES ARE REFLECTED IN WHATEVER COPIES THAT YOU ALL ARE GOING TO RELY UPON.

THAT'S OKAY.

THAT THAT'S RIGHT.

THE TWO, UH, HARD COPIES THAT WE HAVE HERE, IF WE COULD MAKE CHANGES TO THAT.

UM, AND WE MAY BE ABLE TO DO IT RIGHT HERE AND LET YOU CHECK IT OR WE CAN HAND THEM TO YOU.

WHAT, HOWEVER YOU WANT PERFECT IMPACT.

I CAN SHOW THEM TO YOU.

UH, AND WITHOUT WE WOULD TENDER THE WITNESSES, UH, FOR CROSS EXAMINATION.

EXCUSE ME, YOUR HONOR.

JUST ONE MORE TECHNICAL MATTER.

WE WERE THINKING THAT MAYBE WE MIGHT TAKE THIS, BUY BACK MIKE AND ADD IT TO THE WITNESS TABLE, UM, TO MAKE IT MORE EFFICIENT.

THANK YOU, MS. COOPER.

UH, OKAY.

ARE WE READY? UH, FOR, TO WR.

ALRIGHT, GOOD MORNING.

Y'ALL IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME AND I'VE, I'VE SEEN A COUPLE OF Y'ALL BEFORE IN PREVIOUS CASES AND IT'S NICE TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

NICE TO SEE Y'ALL ARE STILL WITH US AND ENERGY.

I JUST HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS.

UM, OOPS.

UH, DO ALL OF YOU ALL SPONSOR, UH, THE COST OF THE REPORT AND THE COST OF SERVICE WORK PAPERS WE EACH WANT TO REPORT SHOW THEM? YES.

ALL RIGHT.

AND COULD YOU TELL ME THE PORTIONS THAT YOU SPONSOR? SO I'M MARK DEBRASKI, WE'LL BE SPONSORING, UM, SECTION ONE INTRODUCTION, SECTION TWO, OVER YOU, A BASE RATE FILING SECTION THREE BASE RATE REVIEW PROCESS, AND ON SECTION 7.3, PROPOSED RESIDENTIAL RATES, RUSTY AND GENIUS, VICE PRESIDENT OF FINANCE.

I WILL BE, UH, SPONSORING, UM, UH, SECTION 1.1 NEED FOR, UH, 20, 20, 22 AUSTIN ENERGY BASED RATE REVIEW, UM, SECTION FOR THE APPROACH, UH, 4.1 4.2 4.3, EXCUSE ME, NOT 4.3.

UM, THE APPROACH AND THE CASHFLOW METHODOLOGY.

UH, BUT I WILL NOT BE SPEAKING TO THE NUMBERS EMBEDDED INTO THE COST OF SERVICE.

UH, I WILL DEFER TO, UH, WITNESS RAVEN ON, IN THAT REGARD.

I ALSO, UH, SPONSOR, UM, SECTION 9.1 AND 9.2 OF THE VALUE OF SELLER AS WELL AS SECTION 10 AFFORDABILITY, DESIGN AFFORDABILITY GO AND BENCHMARK AGAINST OTHER UTILITIES AND I'M MONICA GONZALES.

I'LL BE COVERING PORTIONS OF THE REVENUE REQUIREMENT, INCLUDING 4.2 0.1, OPERATION AND MAINTENANCE EXPENSE, 4.2 0.2 DEPRECIATION EXPENSE AND AMORTIZATION OF CONTRIBUTIONS, 4.2 0.3 CAPITAL EXPENDITURES AND 4.2

[00:55:01]

0.1 OTHER REVENUE.

JERRY GALVAN, VICE-PRESIDENT CUSTOMER CARE.

I'M SPONSORING THE THREE ONE, ONE CALL CENTER PIECE AND THE CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE PROGRAM.

IF YOU WANT ME TO, I CAN TAKE THE TIME TO GIVE YOU A SPECIFIC, WELL, THANK YOU.

THANK YOU FOR DOING THAT.

UM, NOW MR HAS SAID THAT HE, UH, IS NOT SPONSORING THE, THE ACTUAL DATA THAT'S IN THE COST OF SERVICE.

WOULD THAT BE TRUE? IF I WERE TO ASK EACH OF THE OTHER THREE THAT'S TRUE.

UH, WITNESS RAVEN IS THE SUBJECT MATTER EXPERT ON THE COST OF SERVICE MODEL ITSELF.

AND SO SAY YOU MISS MS. GONZALEZ AND MR. GALVIN.

YES.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

UH, NOW DID YOU ALL REVIEW, UH, THE RIGHT FILING PACKAGE AND IN TOTAL AND NOT JUST YOUR PARTS OR WERE YOU JUST GIVEN YOUR PART AND GAVE YOUR PART AND LET SOMEBODY ELSE DO IT? I HAVE REVIEWED THE ENTIRE RIGHT FILING PACKAGE.

I AS WELL HAVE REVIEWED THE ENTIRE RATE FILING PACKAGE.

UM, I'M MONICA GONZALES.

I'M ACQUAINTED WITH MORE PORTIONS, BUT MOSTLY CONCERNING JUST MY PORTIONS, MINE SPECIFIC TO THE PIECES THAT I MENTIONED.

AND THEN AS TO MR. MARTINEZ AND MR. , UH, D DID YOU, DO YOU AGREE, DISAGREE WITH ANY OF THE PARTS OF THE REPORT OR COST OF SERVICE OR ANYTHING IN THE APPENDIX? I DID NOT.

I DID NOT.

SO IF I WERE TO ASK YOU TO, I HAD A DATA POINT THAT I'VE RECEIVED IN, IN, UH, RFS AND WERE TO ASK YOU TO IDENTIFY IT IN THE COST OF SERVICE, TO TELL ME WHERE IT IS, YOU WOULD NOT BE THE PEOPLE TO ASK.

IS THAT CORRECT? IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE, BUT I MAY DEFER TO ANOTHER WITNESS.

ALL RIGHT.

WELL, LET ME JUST GO AHEAD AND ASK IT, CAUSE I'M ALMOST THROUGH, WE'RE ALMOST OUT OF HERE.

IF YOU COULD LOOK AT WHAT'S BEEN MARKED FOR IDENTIFY, WELL, I'M SORRY, I'M JUST BEING ROUTE.

WHAT'S BEEN INTRODUCED AS, UH, TWR EXHIBIT NUMBER 19 AND THERE IS A WHOLE THING AND IT'S THE LAST ONE.

SO IT SHOULD BE AT THE BOTTOM YES, SIR.

IT'S THE ONE THAT IS AUSTIN.

ENERGY'S RESPONSE TO S S S FIRST RFI ONE DASH ONE FIVE.

HAVE YOU GOT IT? YES.

OKAY.

YES.

SO IF WE LOOK AT, UH, G YOUR ANSWER TO SUBPART G IT STATES AUSTIN ENERGY'S ANNUAL COST FOR OPERATIONS AND MAINTENANCE OF THE UTILITY BILLING SYSTEM IS APPROXIMATELY $8.2 MILLION.

NOW I LOOKED AND THE COST OF SERVICE, AND I CAN'T FIND IT LOCATED IN THE COST OF SERVICE.

AND SO I WOULD LIKE YOU ALL TO POINT OUT IN THE COST OF SERVICE WHERE THAT NUMBER IS UH, YES, I'LL, I'LL DEFER TO A WITNESS, RAVEN.

ALRIGHT.

AND SO SAY YOU MR. DEL ROSKI, THAT'S CORRECT.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU GUYS.

AND THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH ME TODAY.

I PASS THE WITNESS, YOUR HONOR.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU, MS. COOPER.

UM, MR. ROBBINS, MAY I HAVE MY FIRST SLIDE, PLEASE? I HOPE MY TIME ISN'T CLIPPED.

I HAVE MY FIRST, UH, POLICE WENT UP PLEASE, UH, FOOT TO THE NEXT SIDE, PLEASE.

[01:00:10]

THANK YOU.

UH, MR. GALVIN, ACCORDING TO INFORMATION THAT YOU PREPARED FOR THIS RATE CASE IN 2021, WHICH A JUDGE HAS ADVISED THAT I DESCRIBE AS DEMONSTRATIVE, UH, AND IT IS DEMONSTRATIVE BECAUSE, UH, I ADDED CALCULATIONS TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR THE READER TO UNDERSTAND.

BUT ACCORDING TO THIS INFORMATION, IN THE RIGHT CASE, ABOUT $2.8 MILLION WAS USED TO ADMINISTER THE CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE PROGRAM IN 2021, THAT'S FUNDED BY AUSTIN UTILITY RATES, INCLUDING THE RIGHT CASE THAT WE ARE DISCUSSING TODAY.

IS THIS CORRECT? CAN YOU SPECIFY, CAN YOU CLARIFY, UH, THE CON THE QUESTION, I, I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF WHAT I SEE HERE, BUT WHAT IS SPECIFIC, WHAT IS THE SPECIFIC QUESTION HERE? UM, I CALCULATE THAT BETWEEN SALARIES AND ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS AND BENEFITS TO EMPLOYEES, THE CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE PROGRAM SPENDS ABOUT $2.8 MILLION A YEAR ON ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS.

I GOT YOU.

I WOULD DEFER TO MR. RAVEN, WHO HAS, SO ALL THOSE NUMBERS, YOU WOULD, UH, REFER THIS TO WHOM, TO MR. RAVEN THAT HAS ALL OF THE, UH, FINANCIAL, UH, DATA, UH, AND HE'LL BE UP LATER.

OKAY.

UH, I'M GOING TO NOTE, UH, THAT, UH, UH, WHILE I CAN FOLLOW UP, THESE ARE MY CALCULATIONS.

UM, CAP IS INTENDED TO SERVE ABOUT PEOPLE AT, OR BELOW 200% OF POVERTY.

AND AS YOU CAN SEE, HERE ARE HERE'S A HOME WHOSE OWNER IS RECEIVING CAP MEANT FOR THE POOR 2020, UH, TO CORRECT MR. RICARDO, I DID NOT DRIVE THROUGH AND GET A FRONTAL SHOT OF THIS HOME.

UH, I TRIED, BUT THE GUARD WOULDN'T LET ME IN THE GATED COMMUNITY.

SO I HAD TO USE A SATELLITE PHOTO, UH, BY APPEARANCES.

THEY DO PRETTY WELL.

THAT'S A TENNIS COURT IN THE FAR LEFT CORNER.

UM, EVEN IF I'M WRONG TO HAVE SUCH AN EXPENSIVE ASSET, UH, THAT THE TRULY POOR DO NOT HAVE MAKES IT QUESTIONABLE THAT THIS CUSTOMER SHOULD RECEIVE ASSISTANCE SAUCE.

NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

OH, WAIT A MINUTE, YOUR HONOR.

UM, THERE WAS A LOT TO UNPACKAGE THERE.

IF HE, IF HE HAS QUESTIONS FOR THE PANELISTS, THEN CERTAINLY WE'RE AMENABLE TO THAT.

BUT IF HE'S JUST GOING TO GO THROUGH AND MAKE STATEMENTS ABOUT, NO, I DO HAVE A QUESTION, SIR, AND I HOPE THAT THIS DOESN'T COME OFF MY TIME.

UH, HERE'S ANOTHER, UH, AND I'LL HAVE A THIRD EXAMPLE AS WELL.

UH, HERE'S ANOTHER, AN OLD WEST AUSTIN, UH, THAT, UH, IS A HIGH END HOME RECEIVING CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE.

NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

AND HERE'S THE THIRD ONE IN NORTHWEST AUSTIN, AN EXPENSIVE HOME RECEIVING CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE.

SO MY QUESTION IS WHAT PERCENTAGE OF YOUR ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS, HOW MUCH IN IMPROVEMENT EXPENDITURES ARE SPENT ON PEOPLE IN SUCH HOMES, A FOLLOW UP QUESTION, UH, YOU HAVE A FAIRLY LARGE ADMINISTRATIVE STAFF FOR THIS PROGRAM.

HAVE YOU EVER TRIED TO PROACTIVELY RESEARCH THIS? UM, MR. ROBBINS, ONE THING REAL QUICK, YOU DO WANT IT, YOU NEED TO ASK THE QUESTION AND THEN LET LET A PANELIST ANSWER, AND THEN YOU HAVE YOUR FOLLOWUP QUESTION, BUT THEY, YOU JUST ASKED TWO QUESTIONS.

AND SO, OKAY.

I APOLOGIZE THAT MY FIRST QUESTION AGAIN IS WHAT PERCENTAGE OF YOUR ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS, HOW MUCH IN IMPRUDENT EXPENDITURES ARE SPENT ON PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN SUCH HOMES? WELL, LET ME ASK, UH, ADD A LITTLE BIT OF CLARITY HERE.

UH, IF MEMORY SERVES ME, THIS IS FROM A LIST OF A HUNDRED AND TWENTY THREE, A HUNDRED AND TWENTY FOUR PROPERTY, SIR, UH, THAT YOU IDENTIFIED BACK IN 2020, UH, MAYBE EVEN EARLY 2021.

UH, AND, UH, THAT WAS FROM A LIST OF 13,000, UH, WATER WASTEWATER ACCOUNTS THAT WERE

[01:05:01]

RECEIVING THE CAP DISCOUNT.

UH, SO WE ARE TALKING ABOUT LESS THAN, UH, WHAT IS IT? 9, 9, 1 THOUSANDS OF 1%.

UM, AND, UM, MOREOVER ALL OF THOSE ACCOUNTS WERE REVIEWED BY THE CITY OF AUSTIN, UH, AUDITOR IN A SPECIAL PROJECT IN LATE 2021.

UH, AND IF MEMORY SERVES ME, IT WAS FOUND THAT AUSTIN ENERGY WAS, UH, ADEQUATELY DETERMINING ELIGIBILITY.

UM, AND THE, ALSO THE SAMPLE SIZE THAT WAS USED AND REVIEWED WAS 80% HOMEOWNERS, 18%, MULTIPLE PROPERTY OWNERS.

UH, IT IS NOT CONSISTENT WITH A TYPICAL CUSTOMER IN THE CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE DISCOUNT PROGRAM.

UM, W MOST OF THEM ARE RENTERS, UH, AND IT WAS A, UH, NON, UH, IT WAS NOT A STATISTICALLY, UM, UH, SINCE THIS IS THE LEAST SIGNIFICANT SAMPLE.

SO JUST TO ADD CLARITY TO THAT, IT'S 124, I BELIEVE OUT OF, UH, 35,000 ACCOUNTS THERE, 13,000 ACCOUNTS.

I'M SORRY.

WELL, THIS IS TRUE.

UH, WELL, PART OF IT IS TRUE.

UH, HAVE YOU EVER PROACTIVELY TRIED TO RESEARCH THIS QUESTION? I'VE STAYED UP MANY NIGHTS TRYING TO FAIR IT OUT, THESE INEFFICIENCIES, UH, A MIDDLE SCHOOL STUDENT COULD, IT DOESN'T REQUIRE SOPHISTICATION OF MORE THAN A MIDDLE SCHOOL STUDENT TO DO IT.

HAS YOUR STAFF EVER TRIED TO TROUBLESHOOT THIS THEMSELVES? ABSOLUTELY.

UH, WE'VE WORKED ON THIS AS YOU, AS YOU MAY BE AWARE YEAR OVER YEAR.

UM, IN 2018, I THINK WE IMPLEMENTED A SECONDARY INCOME VERIFICATION PROCESS FOR PROPERTIES THAT HAVE A VALUE OF 250,000 OR MORE.

UM, WHAT HAPPENS WITH THOSE CUSTOMERS THAT, UM, ARE WE, WE SEE THIS WITH SENIOR CITIZENS, ONE OF THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF AN EFFICIENT PROGRAM, UM, THAT, UM, THEY'D RECEIVE A MEDICAID BENEFIT AND THEY ARE LOW INCOME AND MEDICAID INCOME VERIFY THEM.

UM, UH, AND AUSTIN ENERGY TAKES THOSE CUSTOMERS THAT MEDICAID AND OTHER SOCIAL SERVICE PROGRAMS PAID FOR THEIR INCOME VERIFICATION.

UH, WE TAKE THOSE CUSTOMERS AND WE AUTOMATICALLY ENROLL THEM BECAUSE WE KNOW THEY WERE INCOME VERIFIED, HOWEVER, BECAUSE THEY ARE NUANCES IN EVERY PROGRAM AND WE HAVE SENIOR CITIZENS THAT NEED, AS THEY AGE MOVE INTO WITH THEIR FAMILY.

UH, WE CREATED THIS SECONDARY INCOME VERIFICATION PROCESS WHERE WE LOOK AT THE IMPROVEMENT VALUE OF THE HOMES.

I CAN TELL YOU THAT THAT WAS 2020 DATA, UH, BY 2021.

NONE OF THOSE CUSTOMERS WERE RECEIVING AT THE DATA WITH THE EXCEPTION OF MAYBE, UH, THE DISCOUNT WITH THE EXCEPTION OF, UH, YOU KNOW, W WHAT INFORMATION THE CITY OF AUSTIN AUDITOR PROVIDED IN THE SPECIAL PROJECT.

WELL, UM, CORRECT.

YOU ACTUALLY, THE CITY AUDITOR DID FIND FAULT WITH SEVERAL DOZEN, BUT, UH, THERE'S, UH, ANOTHER ISSUE HERE IS THAT, UM, KNOW, LET ME PHRASE THIS IN THE FORM OF A QUESTION, UH, YOU ONLY SCREEN OUT PEOPLE WITH HIGH PROPERTY WEALTH.

UH, DO YOU SCREEN PEOPLE FOR THEIR SALARIES OR, UH, IF THEY OWN STOCKS OR S OR JEWELRY OR SOMETHING OF HIGH VALUE? YEAH.

THE, THE PROGRAM IS DESIGNED, UH, FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE NOT, UH, OR HEARD ABOUT THIS PROGRAM AT THE DISCOUNT PROGRAM IS DESIGNED YOU, IF YOU ARE A RECEIVING A BENEFICIARY OF BENEFITS LIKE MEDICAID SNAP, WHICH IS THE OLD TERM I USED TO USE IN THE OLD, IN THESE FOOD STAMPS, WHAT IS NUTRITION ASSISTANCE PROGRAM, UM, MEDICAID, UM, MEDICAL PROGRAM, TRAVIS COUNTY, COMPREHENSIVE ENERGY ASSISTANCE.

THERE ARE SEVERAL PROGRAMS THAT ARE PROVIDERS TO OUR CUSTOMERS, UH, AND THEY INCOME SCREEN THE CUSTOMERS.

SO WE HAVE AN EFFICIENT PROCESS.

WE DON'T PAY FOR A SECOND INCOME VERIFICATION.

IF THE COUNTY, THE STATE, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ALREADY DETERMINED THAT THE PERSON IS LOW INCOME.

HAVING SAID THAT THERE IS THAT UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE OF A CHILD BEING ADOPTED BY SOMEBODY WEALTHY OR A SENIOR CITIZEN MOVING IN WITH THEIR KID THAT IS WELL OFF.

[01:10:01]

AND WE HAVE THAT SECONDARY INCOME VERIFICATION PROCESS TO CATCH THOSE.

AND WE HAVE CONTINUED TO TWEAK THE PROGRAM TO JUST MAKE IT EVEN TIGHTER.

AND LET ME JUST ADD ONE LAST PIECE HERE.

IF WE WERE TO INCOME, VERIFY EVERY ONE OF THOSE 35,000 CUSTOMERS THAT THE STATE, THE COUNTY ALREADY, UM, INCOME VERIFIED, WE WOULD BE INCREASING ONM, NOT DECREASING IT.

AND ANYWAYS, I'LL STOP THERE.

WASN'T THERE, WASN'T THE PERSON WHO LIVING IN THIS HOME INCOME VERIFIED.

I DON'T HAVE SPECIFICS.

AND I COULDN'T TALK SPECIFICALLY ABOUT ANY ONE INDIVIDUAL BECAUSE OF PRIVACY CONCERNS.

WELL, YOU JUST SAID, BUT WHAT I CAN TELL YOU IS THAT IF THIS PROPERTY WAS PART OF THE 124, YOU PROVIDED, UH, THE CITY OF AUSTIN, UM, THE OFFICE OF THE AUDITOR, UH, THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NO LONGER IN THE PROGRAM.

YES.

UH, YOU MENTIONED A MOMENT AGO THAT, UH, YOUR COSTS WOULD INCREASE IF EVERYONE WAS INCOME VERIFIED.

ARE YOU AWARE THAT IN THE SACRAMENTO MUNICIPAL UTILITY DISTRICT, THEY HAVE A LOW-INCOME DISCOUNT DISCOUNT PROGRAM THAT IS COMPLETELY INCOME VERIFIED? ABSOLUTELY.

UH, I UNDERSTAND, BUT, BUT TO BE FAIR, UM, AND, AND I KNOW THIS IS NOT NECESSARILY PERTINENT TO THIS PROCEEDINGS, UH, BUT TO ANSWER THE QUESTION, UH, SACRAMENTO, UH, AS, UM, IF YOU GO TO THE WEBSITE OF THE CITY OF SACRAMENTO AND THE UTILITY, YOU'LL FIND THAT SACRAMENTO HAS OVER 50% OF THE POPULATION ARE LOW