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[Energy Rate Proceedings]

[00:00:08]

ALL RIGHT, LET'S GO ON THE RECORD.

UH, TODAY IS JULY 15TH, 2022.

THIS IS DAY TWO OR DAY THREE OF THE, OF THE FINAL CONFERENCE.

AND, UM, WE NOW HAVE AUSTIN ENERGY'S WITNESS PANEL.

WE'RE IN REBUTTAL.

WE'VE GONE THROUGH ALL THE DIRECT CASES AND WE ARE NOW IN, IN REBUTTAL FOR AUSTIN ENERGY.

AND, UM, BEFORE WE START WITH A CROSS-EXAMINATION OR ANY PRESENTATION FROM AUSTIN ENERGY, UH, FOR REBUTTAL CASE, I WANT TO GO OVER THE EXHIBITS THAT HAVE BEEN OFFERED, AND THERE ARE NO OBJECTIONS TO THIS MORNING.

I SEE A 13, 14, AND 15.

IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE ARE NO OBJECTIONS TO THOSE EXHIBITS.

IS THAT CORRECT? OKAY.

HEARING NONE.

I SEE 8, 13, 14, AND 15 ARE ADMITTED.

T I SEE OFFERS, UH, EXHIBIT NUMBER 24.

ANY OBJECTIONS HEARING NONE, TIC 24 IS ADMITTED ANY OTHER EXHIBITS THAT WE NEED TO DEAL WITH FOR CROSS.

ALL RIGHT.

UM, MR. BROOKE CATO, WHENEVER YOU'RE READY.

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

YES, WE ALREADY, AT THIS TIME, AUSTIN WILL BEGIN THEIR REBUTTAL PRESENTATION.

WE HAVE THE PANEL, UH, NUMBER ONE, UH, WHICH HAS MR. MARTIN DOMBROSKI RUSSELL MANUS, MONICA CATHOLICISM, AND, UM, JARED GALVON.

UM, WE WOULD TINDER THE WITNESSES OF CROSS EXAMINATION.

HOWEVER, BEFORE I DO THAT, I DON'T BELIEVE ANYONE HAS ANY CHANGES TO THEIR REBUTTAL TESTIMONY, BUT I WANT TO CONFIRM THAT THERE ARE ANY CHANGES THAT NEED TO BE MADE.

ALL RIGHT.

HEARING NONE WE TINDER FOR CROSS-EXAMINATION.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

AND ONE HOUSEKEEPING MATTER, MR. HALLMARK, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE 24 TIC 24.

WE HAVE, YOU COULD JUST BRING A COUPLE OF COPIES WHEN YOU GET A CHANCE.

THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

ABSOLUTELY.

UM, ALL RIGHT.

PANEL MEMBERS.

GOOD MORNING.

AND, UH, FOR CROSS-EXAMINATION WE START WITH TWO WR.

THANK YOU.

UH, MR. MURPHY IS GOING TO BE IN THE SECOND PANEL.

OKAY, WELL, I'LL JUST HAVE TO SCRATCH A WHOLE BUNCH OFF RIGHT NOW.

UM, WELL, WE ENDED YESTERDAY, AT LEAST WITH MR. EPHRON'S TESTIMONY, TALKING ABOUT BIOMASS, AND I, I DIDN'T THINK WE WOULD HAVE TO TALK ABOUT IT.

CAUSE EVERY TIME I TALKED ABOUT IT, IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE OUT OF THE RATE CASE, BUT I DID WANT TO ASK A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS TO KIND OF UNDERSTAND, UH, THE RECORD.

UH, THERE WERE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT DECOMMISSIONING AND WHAT IS AUSTIN ENERGY'S PLANS FOR DECOMMISSIONING, THE BIOPLAN MASS PLANT WORK DOBROSKY UM, THE BIOMASS PLANT NACADOCIOUS WAS ACQUIRED IN JUNE OF 2019, AND THE PLANT, UH, BECAME SERVICE IN 2012.

SO IT'S A FAIRLY NEW PLANT.

YES, SIR.

AT THIS TIME WE DON'T HAVE A DECOMMISSIONING HORIZON YET, UH, FOR THAT PLANT, AS YOU KNOW, IT'S QUITE UNIQUE.

SO, UH, WE, UM, WE WILL MAKE THOSE CALLS AS THE MARKET DEVELOPS.

ALL RIGHT.

AND, UH, IT'S, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING FROM THE LAST RATE CASE, UH, THAT, UH, THE POLICY THAT AUSTIN ENERGY HAS, OR THE COUNCIL'S FINANCIAL POLICIES, WHATEVER SAYS THAT YOU WANT A FOUR YEAR LEAD TIME ON YOUR DECOMMISSIONING RESERVES BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY DECOMMISSION IT, YOU'D LIKE TO START THE FUND FOUR YEARS BEFORE THE DECOMMISSIONING.

HAS THAT CHANGED? NO, THAT'S THE, THAT IS THE CURRENT POLICY.

YES.

ALL RIGHT.

OKAY.

WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

I DO HAVE ONE QUESTION ABOUT THE RATE CASE, UH, THAT, THAT THE BIOMASS PLANT WAS TALKED ABOUT, AND THAT IS IN THE KNOWN AND MEASURABLE CHANGES.

THAT'S IT'S PAGE 39 OF, UH, THE RIGHT FALLING PACKAGE.

Y'ALL HAD REMOVED, UH, $111.8 MILLION IN DEPRECIATION FROM THE TEST YEAR AND IT, AND I UNDERSTOOD IT TO BE ACCELERATED DEPRECIATION, BUT I NEVER FOUND OUT HOW THAT ACCELERATED DEPRECIATION WAS UTILIZED IN FISCAL YEAR 2021.

HI.

SO, UM, SINCE THE, SORRY, THE DEPRECIATION FOR NACADOCIOUS IS NOT INCLUDED IN THE BASE RATES AND SO THAT ANY OF THAT AMOUNT WOULD HAVE BEEN OUTSIDE OF THIS.

RIGHT.

BUT I WANT TO, UH, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE'S BEEN SOME DECLINING REVENUES IN 20, 20 AND 2021, AND THEN THERE'S THIS BIG ACCELERATED DEPRECIATION EXPENSE IN 20, 21 FISCAL YEAR.

SO WHAT I WANT TO KNOW IS WHAT WAS IT USED FOR SURE.

SO IT'S, IT'S A NON-CASH ENTRY, BUT IT'S JUST A REFLECTION OF THE INITIAL LIFE FOR THE PLANT, UM, THAT WE

[00:05:01]

WERE DEPRECIATING IT AT.

ALL RIGHT.

AND WHAT IS THE REMAINING LIFE OF THE PLANT? UM, SO THAT MAY CHANGE, BUT THE INITIAL LIFE WAS THREE YEARS, 3.5 YEARS, THE LIFE OF THE PLANT, WE'RE NOT FINISHED PAYING FOR IT FOR UNTIL 32.

ISN'T THAT CORRECT? UH, I DON'T KNOW.

THE YEAR OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.

IT'S MORE THAN THREE YEARS.

THAT'S CORRECT.

ALL RIGHT.

NOW, UH, SO YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE IT PAID OFF IN THREE YEARS.

IS THAT YOUR NO, THAT'S NOT THE CURRENT PLAN.

OKAY.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE THREE YEARS.

AND THIS WILL BE THE LAST QUESTION.

CAUSE I DO HAVE TO ASK A BUNCH OF OTHER QUESTIONS.

THEY'RE JUST TWO SEPARATE SITUATIONS THAT THE DEBT THAT PAID FOR THE PLANT HAS A PAYMENT SCHEDULE AND THEN THE LIFE OF THE PLANT HAS A SEPARATE SCHEDULE.

OKAY.

SO YOU HAD KIND OF TWO DIFFERENT DEBTS.

IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? NO.

WE PURCHASED THE PLANT WITH DEBT AND THE DEBT ITSELF HAS, UH, I BELIEVE A 13 YEAR PAYMENT SCHEDULE.

AND THEN THE PLANT HAD ABOUT A THREE AND A HALF YEAR ESTIMATED LIFE.

ALL RIGHT.

OKAY.

WELL, THAT'S ENOUGH OF THE BIOMASS.

THANK YOU.

UM, I WANTED TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, UH, THE NUMBER OF CUSTOMERS AND IF YOU COULD, AND I'VE, I'VE LEFT, Y'ALL A PACKET OF, OF T TWO WRS EXHIBITS UP THERE.

AND IF Y'ALL COULD PULL EXHIBIT 10 AND I DON'T KNOW WHO'S GOING TO ANSWER IT, BUT, UH, THAT'S NOT, IT THAT'S THE REBUTTAL TESTIMONY FOR OTHER WITNESSES.

MS. COOPER, DID YOU PLACE THOSE ON THE TABLE HERE? AROUND AND THE TABLE? I TRIED TO MAKE IT AS EASY AS PIE.

MAY I APPROACH THE WITNESS, YOUR HONOR? YES, OF COURSE.

THANK YOU.

OKAY.

HAVE YOU, HAVE YOU GOT THE EXHIBIT AND IF YOU COULD TURN TO PAGE FOUR OF THAT EXHIBIT AND YOU WOULD AGREE THAT THE, UH, EXHIBIT 10 WAS AN RFI REQUEST FROM, UH, FROM ONE OF THE PARTIES ASKING FOR THE CUSTOMER COUNT BY CUSTOMER CLASS FOR SEVERAL YEARS AND THAT, AND YOU PROVIDED THE ANSWER.

YES.

ALL RIGHT.

AND ON PAGE FOUR, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS BASICALLY FISCAL YEAR 2020 AND FISCAL YEAR 2021.

IS THAT CORRECT? YES.

ALL RIGHT.

NOW I WAS LOOKING AT THE NUMBERS AND IT APPEARS TO ME THAT IF WE LOOK AT THE COMMERCIAL CLASSES, SECONDARY TWO AND SECONDARY THREE, UH, THEY LOST CUSTOMERS THAT THOSE TWO CLASSES LOST CUSTOMERS AND FISCAL YEAR 2020 .

AND THESE ARE THE IT'S ALREADY 3, 8 35 YEAH.

SO THE INFORMATION THAT, THAT YOU POINTED US TO DOES SHOW THAT THERE WAS A DECLINE IN S TWO CLASS, RIGHT.

AND COULD YOU TELL US, I DON'T WANT TO NAME OF A SPECIFIC BUSINESS, BUT CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT TYPE OF BUSINESSES SECTION SECONDARY TO CLASS REPRESENTS? SO, UH, SEC, OUR S TWO CLASSES, A RANGE FROM 10 KW, THOSE, THOSE CUSTOMERS TAKING A SECONDARY SERVICE WITH A LOAD OF 10, BASICALLY 10 KW TO 300.

SO IT'S PRETTY BROAD, UH, CAN BE OFFICE BUILDINGS, UM, SO FORTH AND SO ON.

UH, GROCERIES.

THANK YOU.

CAUSE I REALLY WANTED TO UNDERSTAND THE PEOPLE BEHIND THE BUSINESSES BEHIND THE NUMBERS HERE AND THEN SECONDARY THREE, UH, WHAT KIND OF BUSINESSES WOULD THOSE BE? OKAY, S3, UH, CLASSES ARE THE LARGER, UM,

[00:10:01]

ARE THE LARGEST SECONDARY CLASSES, THOSE OVER 300 KW.

UH, THOSE COULD BE LARGE MULTI-USE COMPLEXES, UM, UH, THAT HAVE MAYBE COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL.

UM, OH, LIKE A COMBINATION.

YES.

LIKE THE DOMAIN WOULD BE AN EXAMPLE.

MAYBE I CAN'T SPEAK TO D TO, TO THE DOMAIN HOW BIG IT IS, BUT THAT'S AN EXAMPLE.

YEAH.

OKAY.

AND THEN, UH, BUT NOW IF WE GO DOWN TO FISCAL YEAR 20, 21, IT LOOKS LIKE, UH, THE NUMBERS OF CUSTOMERS FOR THE SECONDARY TWO AND THREE FURTHER DECLINED SO, OKAY.

SO EXCUSE ME.

YOUR FIRST PART OF YOUR QUESTION WAS, WAS JUST LIMITED TO FISCAL YEAR 2020, IS THAT CORRECT? YES, SIR.

AND THEN I SAID, AND THEN FOR FISCAL YEAR 2021, DOESN'T IT SHOW THAT THE NUMBER OF COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS FURTHER DECLINED WITHIN THE YEAR? MA'AM YES, SIR.

I'M SORRY.

I APOLOGIZE.

SO THE S ONE CLASS DID NOT DECLINE THE S TWO CLASS DID DECLINE, UH, S THREE DID DECLINE.

RIGHT.

AND THEN, UH, IT LOOKS LIKE THE PRIMARY ONE DECLINED AS WELL FOR, UH, FISCAL YEAR 2021.

YES, THAT'S CORRECT.

AND, UH, YES, SIR.

THAT'S ALL I'VE GOT IS THE NUMBERS I'M HOPING Y'ALL HELPED ME ON THAT.

UH, THE PRIMARY ONE.

UH, CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT TYPE OF CUSTOMER THAT IS JUST GENERALLY, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, IT, A SMALL PRIMARY LOAD.

I NOTHING THAT'S OKAY.

IF YOU DON'T, IF YOU, I KNOW I'M HITTING YOU, THERE WAS UNEXPECTED.

I FOLLOWED THAT SO, WELL, WAIT, CAN WE WAIT JUST TO SAY I DID, I DID NOT HEAR YOUR ANSWER.

THERE'S SOME STEPPING ON ANSWERS IN THE Q AND A HERE.

SO WHAT WAS YOUR ANSWER? UH, I'M I'M I COULDN'T, I COULDN'T SITE A TYPE OF CUSTOMER IN THE P ONE CLASS, ZERO TO THREE MEGAWATTS.

IT'S A SMALL PRIMARY CUSTOMER.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU.

AND I APPRECIATE YOU HELPING ME, UH, GET A VISION ON SOME OF THESE.

UH, AND SO IF WE COULD TURN TO PAGE 80, ONE OF THE RATE FALLING PACKAGE ARE YOU THERE, SIR? YES, MA'AM.

I AM.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

UH, IF WE LOOK AT FIGURE SEVEN DASH FOUR, IT SHOWS GRAPHICALLY THE DECLINE AND SALES, BUT IT'S NOT JUST FOR THE RESIDENTIAL, UH, CUSTOMER CLASSES.

IT'S ALSO FOR THE NON-RESIDENTIAL CLASSES AS WELL.

IS THAT CORRECT? I'M SORRY, WHAT PAGE AGAIN? MA'AM PAGE 81.

THAT'S CORRECT.

ALL RIGHT.

AND IN FACT, IF WE COMPARE THE NON-RESIDENTIAL SALES PER CUSTOMER WITH THE RESIDENTIAL SALES PER, PER HOUSEHOLD, IT LOOKS LIKE THAT IN 20, 20 20, THE RESIDENTIAL SALES STARTED RISING AND THE NON-RESIDENTIAL SALES CONTINUED TO GO DOWN.

IS THAT CORRECT? IS THAT WHAT THESE GRAPHS REPRESENT? WELL, THIS REPRESENTS AVERAGE, UM, AVERAGE CUSTOMER CONSUMPTION, UM, IT'S SALES, IT SAYS SALES SEVEN DASH FOUR HAS SALES.

YES MA'AM.

SO THE AVERAGE, AVERAGE CUSTOMER SALE OR CONSUMPTION OF THAT CUSTOMER, SAME THING.

WOULD IT BE REVENUES? NO SALES OR KWH? YES.

ALL RIGHT.

OKAY.

AND WHAT WOULD YOU ATTRIBUTE TO THE LOSS OF A COMMERCIAL CUSTOMER CLASSES FOR, DO YOU HAVE ANY OPINION AS TO WHY IN FISCAL YEAR 2020 AND FISCAL YEAR 2021, THE NON-RESIDENTIAL CLASSES THAT WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER DECLINED, YOU HAVE AN OPINION AS TO THAT.

I DO NOT.

YOU DON'T HAVE AN OPINION AS TO WHETHER COVID INFLUENCED THE DECLINE IN CUSTOMERS, PARTICULARLY WITH THE SECONDARY TOO,

[00:15:01]

WHICH IS LIKE RESTAURANTS.

I, I CANNOT ATTEST TO, TO WHY THOSE BUSINESSES CLOSED OR WENT AWAY OR IF THEY DID.

SO, BUT IF YOU, IF YOU LOSE A COMMERCIAL CUSTOMER, IT HAS A BIGGER IMPACT ON YOUR REVENUES THAN IF YOU LOSE A RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS AND THAT CORRECT.

ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL.

YES.

I, UNDER CERTAIN PARAMETERS, I SUSPECT THAT'S A TRUE STATEMENT.

I'M SURE THAT SOMEBODY LIKE MR. DELL'S HOUSE MIGHT CHALLENGE SOME OF THESE COMMERCIAL CLASS SALES I'M SURE.

BUT IN GENERAL, THE AVERAGE HASSLE.

OKAY.

DID YOU ALL, UH, IN TERMS OF COMING UP WITH THE RATE FILING PACKAGE AND TRYING TO DETERMINE, UH, THE NEED FOR, UH, CHANGES IN RATES, DID YOU LOOK AT THE, UH, ECONOMY TO DETERMINE WHETHER THERE WAS SOME EFFECT ON THE REVENUES OF, OF, UH, OF THE RESIDENTIAL CLASS OR THE COMMERCIAL CLASSES? DID ANYBODY IN AUSTIN ENERGY TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE CONSIDER THAT IN TERMS OF MAKING A DECISION OF, UH, USING LIKE FISCAL YEAR 20, 21 AS A TEST YEAR? YOUR HONOR, I'VE LET THIS GO A LITTLE BIT.

UM, CAUSE I WASN'T EXACTLY SURE WHAT IT WAS GOING, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THESE QUESTIONS ARE ALL DIRECTED TOWARDS THE DIRECT CASE AND CROSS AT THIS MOMENT, IT'S EXPECTED TO BE DIRECTED TOWARDS THE REBUTTAL TESTIMONY.

SO I WOULD OBJECT TO THE EXTENT THAT THESE QUESTIONS ARE NOT ABOUT THE REBUTTAL TESTIMONY, UM, AND YOUR RESPONSE TO THE OBJECTION.

WELL, THE ONLY POINT I CAN MAKE YOUR HONOR IS THAT THEY WERE CHALLENGING SOME OF THE, UH, SINCE I DON'T FILE DIRECT TESTIMONY, PER SE, UH, THEY DID CHALLENGE.

I SEE A DISCUSSION OF THE EFFECT OF THE WINTER STORM AND AF COVID.

AND TO THAT EXTENT THEY DID COVER THIS SUBJECT AREA, WHICH IS WHAT I'M COVERING, WHICH IS COVID AND WINTER STORM URI.

OKAY.

I'LL ALLOW IT.

OVERRULED.

UM, I'M SORRY, WHAT WAS YOUR QUESTION? I'M JUST SAYING, AS IN PREPARATION OF DETERMINING WHICH TEST YEAR YOU SHOULD USE, AND I'M SORRY THAT THIS MASK I'M JUST SUCH PARANOID, UH, TEST HERE, DO YOU USE WHAT TEST YEAR TO USE AND WHAT ADJUSTMENTS, IF ANY, YOU SHOULD MAKE FOR, UH, DID YOU THE ECONOMY AND WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE CITY OF AUSTIN ECONOMY AS A RESULT OF COVID AND WINTER STORM URI, UH, I'LL DEFER THAT QUESTIONING TO, UM, UH, WITNESS MURPHY.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

OKAY.

ENOUGH OF THE ECONOMY.

SO I'D LIKE TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE THREE 11 CALL CENTER AND MR. GALVIN, AND ANYBODY CAN ANSWER, BUT I KNOW MR. GALVIN PROBABLY HAS THE ANSWER.

UH, IF YOU COULD PULL A TEED UP TO D TWO W WR EXHIBIT TWO AND FOUR, PLEASE, BECAUSE I WANT TO TALK WITH YOU ABOUT IT A LITTLE BIT TOO, AND ALSO EXHIBIT FIVE WHILE WE'RE ON IT.

ANY SPECIFIC PAGE? WELL, I HAVE NO IDEA WHY I SAID SCRATCH TWO AND JUST MAKE IT FOUR.

OKAY.

SORRY ABOUT THAT.

I KNOW IT'S OKAY.

NOT A PROBLEM.

OKAY.

AT THREE, OKAY.

FOUR, THREE, ONE, ONE CALL CENTER.

YEAH.

AND ALSO I THINK EXHIBIT THINK IT'S EXHIBIT IT'S ONE OF THE NEW ONES THAT I GOT FROM THAT THE EXHIBIT 20 AS WELL, SIR.

DID YOU WANT TO START WITH FOUR AND THEN GO FROM THERE? THAT'S ACTUALLY A GOOD, GOOD IDEA.

THANK YOU.

YOU WOULD AGREE, SIR, THAT TWO W OUR EXHIBIT NUMBER FOUR IS A RESPONSE TO A TECHNICAL CONFERENCE IN WHICH YOU ALL WERE ASKED TO IDENTIFY THE COST ALLOCATION OF THE THREE 11 CENTER.

IS THAT CORRECT? YES, MA'AM.

ALL RIGHT.

AND COULD YOU, UH, EXPLAIN TO ME THIS GRAPH THAT WE APPEARS ON, LIKE PAGE TWO OF THE EXHIBIT? YEP.

SO, SO THIS PAGE TWO, UH, WE PROVIDED THE MOST RECENT AND AVAILABLE

[00:20:01]

DATA.

UM, PAGE TWO IS BASICALLY HOW WE ALLOCATED COST IN 2020, WE WOULD ALLOCATE COST IN 2021, BUT KEEP IN MIND THAT FOR THE 20, 21 BASE RATE YEAR, WE DID NOT HAVE THE 20, 21 DATA FOR THAT.

SO WE USE, UH, THE MOST AVAILABLE DATA, WHICH WAS 2019, BUT THE POINT IS, THIS IS PRETTY MUCH THE MODEL.

ALRIGHT.

SO BASICALLY YOU TAKE THE NUMBER OF CALLS AND YOU ALLOCATE IT AND PROPORTION TO THE NUMBER OF CALLS.

IS THAT CORRECT? YES.

UH, THE ONLY CLARIFICATION I'LL ADD IS WE TAKE THE MINUTES, UH, BUT IT'S THE SAME CONCEPT.

YES, NO, I'M GLAD YOU CLARIFIED THAT.

THAT'S ACTUALLY GOOD TO KNOW.

SO IF WE LOOK AT THIS, THIS DATA THAT Y'ALL USED FOR THE, FOR THE TEST YEAR, IT SHOWS THAT AUSTIN ENERGY HAD SIX POINT 14% OF THE CALLS.

IS THAT CORRECT? YES MA'AM BUT THEY WERE ALLOCATED 7.2, 5% OF THE CORRECT.

WHY WAS THAT? THANK YOU.

AND IS THE SAME TRUE, NOT JUST FOR AUSTIN ENERGY, BUT IF YOU SEE ALL THE OTHER CD DEPARTMENTS, ESPECIALLY THOSE IN THE UPPER SECTION OF THE GRAPH, UH, IT'S THE SAME FOR ALL OF THEM, BECAUSE UNFORTUNATELY WHEN YOU HAVE A CONTACT CENTER, ESPECIALLY A, UH, EASILY RECOGNIZED NUMBER, LIKE THREE, ONE, ONE PEOPLE CALL IT THAT DID NOT MEAN TO CALL, UH, OR, OR, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE TRYING TO CALL 4, 1, 1, AND THEY DIAL 3, 1, 1 OR 2, 1, 1, ET CETERA.

UH, AND WE STILL HAVE TO TAKE THE CALLS AND WE STILL HAVE TO PAY FOR THE CALLS.

SO WHAT WE DO IS WE TAKE ALL THAT AND JUST SPREAD IT OUT ACROSS EVENLY, AS YOU SAID, BASED ON THE DISTRIBUTION.

SO, SO THAT'S OUR FAIR SHARE OF THE COST OF DOING BUSINESS.

THAT MAKES PERFECT SENSE.

SO THEN WE GO DOWN HERE AT THE VERY BOTTOM AND THIS KIND OF LIKE TRIED TO SUM IT UP FOR AUSTIN ENERGY'S COST ALLOCATION.

IS THAT CORRECT? YES.

SO IF WE LOOK AT THE DEPARTMENT ALLOCATION, AUSTIN ENERGY RECEIVED ABOUT $9.4 MILLION.

YES.

IS THAT CORRECT? BUT THEN AUSTIN ENERGY WAS CHARGED AN EXTRA AMOUNT OF $3.1 MILLION.

SO THAT'S LIKE 30% INCREASE ABOUT THIS.

RIGHT.

AND, UH, DID, DID THE THREE, ONE, ONE CALL CENTER ACT ANY DIFFERENT IN REGARDS TO QUALIFY, QUANTIFYING, UH, TO GIVING THIS VALUE, THIS CHAR EXTRA CHARGE TO AUSTIN ENERGY? UM, SO I THINK IN MY TESTIMONY, I ALSO INCLUDED SOMEWHERE ELSE.

I CAN'T THINK EXACTLY WHERE, BUT I MENTIONED THAT, UM, THE UTILITY CONTEXT CENTER IT'S RESPONSIBLE AND THAT'S NOT 3, 1, 1, RIGHT.

IS THE UTILITY AUSTIN ENERGY IS RESPONSIBLE TO HANDLE OUTAGE CALLS, RIGHT? UH, OUTAGE, UM, CALL HANDLING.

IT'S ONE OF OUR BREAD AND BUTTER FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM IN THE, IN THE CONTACT CENTER.

SINCE WE HAVE AN AUSTIN THREE ONE-ON-ONE CONTACT CENTER, WE CLOSE THE UTILITY CONTACT CENTER AT 9:00 PM, MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY, AND FROM 9:00 PM TO 7:00 AM EVERY DAY, UH, THE OUTAGE CALL HANDLING IS DONE BY, UH, 3, 1, 1.

IT IS UNIQUE TO AUSTIN ENERGY BECAUSE OTHER CITY OF AUSTIN DEPARTMENTS DON'T TAKE THEIR CORE FUNCTIONS AND SEND THEM TO 3, 1, 1 OVERNIGHT, OR ON WEEKENDS.

THAT'S AN EXAMPLE.

APD DOES NOT SEND THEIR NINE ONE ONE CALL CENTER OVER TO THREE, ONE, ONE AT NIGHT.

WE COULDN'T HANDLE EMERGENCY, UH, LIFE-OR-DEATH SITUATIONS.

WE'RE NOT CERTIFIED FOR THAT.

UM, THE OTHER PIECE THAT I'LL ADD, UM, PERHAPS JUST TO, UH, AS AN EXAMPLE TO CLARIFY OUTAGE CALLS ARE NOT PLANNED OUTAGES FOR THE MOST PART THEY'RE MOTHER NATURE, WEATHER RELATED.

UM, SO WE HAVE TO HAVE CAPACITY KIND OF LIKE AN AIRPORT HAS CAPACITY TO LAND PLANES, RIGHT? THEY KNOW THE ONES THAT ARE SCHEDULED AND THEY KNOW THAT THE PLANE IS GOING TO BE ON THE LANDING STRIP FOR X AMOUNT OF MINUTES ON THE CONCOURSE FOR X AMOUNT OF MINUTES.

AND THEY'VE GOT TO HAVE STAFF TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING MOVES ALONG THE PLANE LANDS SAFELY AND TAKES OFF.

IF THERE'S AN EMERGENCY LANDING AND YOU DON'T HAVE THE CAPACITY TO HANDLE THE EMERGENCY LANDING.

THAT'S A PROBLEM.

IF YOU WAIT UNTIL YOU SEE THE, THE AIRPLANE IN THE AIR TO CALL PEOPLE OVER, TO COME AND DO THEIR JOB, YOU HAVE A PROBLEM.

SO IT'S A SIMILAR THOUGHT AS AN ANALOGY, UM, OUTAGE CALLS THE WEATHER FORECASTERS NOWADAYS HAVE GOTTEN A HECK OF A LOT BETTER THAN MANY YEARS AGO.

UH, SO THANK YOU TO THEM.

UH, BUT, UM, AND I THINK I GOT YOUR POINT AND I DON'T, I'M NOT TRYING TO BE RUDE, BUT WE WERE ON A TIME CLOCK.

I WISH I WOULD.

SO, SO LET ME JUST CLOSE OUT THE POINT THOUGH, BECAUSE I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S NOT LEFT THERE, SITTING THERE WITHOUT ANY KIND

[00:25:01]

OF, UH, IT'S NOT CLEAR THERE IS A PREMIUM FOR THAT CAPACITY.

IF YOU GO TO AN AIRPORT TO ANY BUSINESS AND YOU ASK THEM TO BE OPEN OVERNIGHT, TO HAVE THE FLEXIBILITY, TO STRETCH FROM ZERO TO THOUSANDS EVERY NIGHT AND DELIVER CERTAIN SERVICE LEVEL EXPECTATIONS, THERE IS A PREMIUM FOR THAT.

AND WHETHER 3, 1, 1 DOES IT FOR ME, OR I KEEP MY UTILITY CONTACT CENTER OPEN 24 7, THAT WOULD BE LESS EFFICIENT BECAUSE I WOULD HAVE TO CALL CENTERS WORKING TWENTY FOUR SEVEN INSTEAD OF THE ECONOMIES OF SCALE OF JUST ONE.

SO SYSTEM WIDE, I WOULD SPEND MORE.

GO AHEAD.

I APPRECIATE IT.

AND HOPEFULLY I CAN TALK TO YOU AGAIN AFTER THE HEARING ABOUT THIS, BUT, UH, BUT EVEN DURING THESE TIMES, WHEN THE 3 11, 11 IS SUPPOSEDLY CLOSED FOR THE NORMAL TRAFFIC, PEOPLE CAN CALL FOR THEIR, FOR THEIR GARBAGE, WHEN TRASH PICKUP IS DURING THIS TIME, IT'S NOT LIKE 3 11, 11 IS CLOSE TO ANYBODY EXCEPT AUSTIN ENERGY CUSTOMERS CALLING ON AN AUSTIN ENERGY PROBLEM.

ISN'T THAT CORRECT? YES, BUT THERE'S A BUTTON AND THAT, BUT IS THAT, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, WE TAKE A PROCESS THAT IS OWNED BY THE UTILITY AND IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE UTILITY.

AND WE'VE EMBEDDED IT ON 3, 1, 1 WITH THE SAME PROCESS, THE SAME TRAINING.

AND, AND THEY DO THAT FOR US.

AND I WAS STILL HAVE TO INCUR THE COSTS IF I STAY IN IT.

I HEAR YOU.

BUT THE FACT IS YOU DO TAKE OTHER, OTHER CALLS INVOLVING OTHER DEPARTMENTS AND OTHER SERVICES.

IS THAT CORRECT? YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

ALL RIGHT.

SO NOW IF WE COULD TURN TO PAGE THREE OF EXHIBIT FOUR, PLEASE, ARE YOU THERE, SIR? ALL RIGHT.

YES, MA'AM UH, AND IT SAYS, IT SAYS, PLEASE IDENTIFY THE AMOUNT OF AUSTIN ENERGY'S CALL CENTER COSTS AND THE SCHEDULES, WHICH CONTAIN THE COST.

WELL, IF WE COMPARE THE NUMB AND, AND, AND AUSTIN ENERGY AND ANSWERED THAT, CORRECT? YES.

ALL RIGHT.

AND IF WE COMPARE THE COST TOTAL THAT THEY PUT DOWN THERE FOR AUSTIN ENERGY, WITH THE COST ALLOCATION THAT WE SAW ON PAGE TWO OF THE EXHIBIT, WE SEE THAT THEY'VE ADDED, OH, ABOUT $3 MILLION.

LET ME JUST CLARIFY THAT.

THANK YOU.

UH, THIS IS THE UTILITY CONTEXT CENTER, AUSTIN ENERGY'S CALL CENTER.

THE ONE ON PAGE TWO IS AUSTIN 3 1, 1, 2 SEPARATE CONTEXT.

SO YOU HAVE TWO DIFFERENT CALL CENTERS YOU SPENT EXCEPT THAT NIGHT SO THEN I WANT YOU TO TURN TO PAGE FOUR AND KIND OF LIKE THE REST UP TO LIKE PAGE NINE.

AND YOU WOULD AGREE THAT THIS PART OF THE EXHIBIT IS TALKING ABOUT SMART METERS.

YES.

IS THAT CORRECT? AND THIS IS JUST A PORTION OF, OF, OF THE, UH, ATTACHMENT.

THAT WAS AN ANSWER TO AN RFI ASKING ABOUT SMART METERS.

CORRECT.

OKAY.

SO IF WE TURN TO THE PAGES AND WE LOOK AT PAGE SIX, AND YOU WOULD AGREE THAT ONE OF THE LISTINGS ON THIS IS, UH, ENHANCED OUTAGE COMMUNICATION, THAT'S THE NUMBER ONE THING LISTED, ISN'T THAT CORRECT? CORRECT.

AND THEN IF WE, UH, AND ALSO SMART METERS ARE USED IN LOAD RESEARCH, YOU LOOK AT PAGE SEVEN.

IS THAT CORRECT? I BELIEVE SO.

YES.

I KNOW THAT'S THE, I AM NOT THE EXPERT IN THIS SPACE, BUT I THINK I CAN, YEAH, I, I I'M WITH YOU I'M WITH, BUT I HEAR YOU.

UM, AND THEN IF WE TURN TO PAGE NINE AND THIS ACTUALLY SHOWS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW A CUSTOMER CAN COMMUNICATE ABOUT CUSTOMER OUTAGES, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.

THAT'S ACTUALLY, UH, I'M PROUD ABOUT THAT FANCY TOOL FOR OUR CUSTOMERS.

ALL RIGHT.

AND THAT THE USE OF, UH, THE MEDIA, THE TELEPHONE IS YOU CAN EVEN CHANGE YOUR OUTAGE ALERT PREFERENCES.

YOU CAN HAVE OTHER PEOPLE NOTIFIED YOUR FAMILY AND STUFF, AND THAT'S REFLECTED ON PAGE 10.

IS THAT CORRECT? UM, YOU, YOU, YOU CAN SET UP YOUR NOTIFICATIONS PREFERENCE.

ABSOLUTELY.

RIGHT.

I WOULDN'T SAY JUST THE WAY YOU DID, BUT, BUT I HEAR YOU I DON'T THINK I'M GOING TO HAVE YOU TALK ABOUT, UH, EXHIBIT 20.

LET ME, I THINK WE'VE KIND OF ALREADY TALKED ABOUT IT, SO, OKAY.

UH, ALSO I WANTED YOU TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT FIVE.

YOU JUST GET A LOT OF EXHIBITS, MR. GALVIN, IF I CAN HELP I'M HERE FOR YOU.

I APPRECIATE

[00:30:01]

IT VERY MUCH.

AND I WANTED TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT, WHAT PAGE IS THAT? IT'S EXHIBIT FIVE, IF AND WHEN I REFER TO EXHIBITS, YOUR HONOR, AND FOR THE RECORD, I'M REFERRING TO TWO W OUR EXHIBITS, IF I DEVIATE FROM THAT, I WILL MAKE A REFERENCE TO ANOTHER EXHIBIT IF THAT'S OKAY.

UM, ARE YOU THERE, SIR? YES, MA'AM.

OKAY.

AND SO BASICALLY, UH, THIS EXHIBIT REALLY FOCUSES IN, ON, UH, STORM YURI, IS THAT CORRECT? YES.

AND THE FIRST PART IS, UH, APPARENTLY A PRESENTATION THAT WAS GIVEN TO THE COUNCIL TO KIND OF TELL WHAT THE, UH, THE STORM DOES.

AND LIKE, WE, WE LOOK AT PAGE FOUR IT'S GRAPHICALLY SHOWS THE OUTAGES THAT OCCURRED.

CORRECT.

AND THEN IF WE THEN WAS YOUR THREE 11 WAS ALSO AFFECTED BY HURRICANE YURI, IS THAT CORRECT? YES.

MA'AM, UH, YOU KINDA GOT FROZE OUT OF YOUR, OF YOUR HOUSE DIDN'T YOU TH THERE WERE, UM, THERE, THE CDY, THERE WERE A LOT OF OTHER ISSUES THAT IMPACT THAT THE ENTIRE CITY OF AUSTIN, NOT JUST AUSTIN ENERGY.

ABSOLUTELY.

RIGHT.

BUT RIGHT NOW WE'RE TRYING TO LOOK AT AUSTIN ENERGY COSTS WHERE THEY AFFECTED BECAUSE OF STORM YURI, OTHER THAN JUST THROUGH OVERTIME.

YEAH.

YEAH.

I'LL, I'LL ON THE COST.

IT'S PROBABLY FINANCED A BETTER ABLE TO ADDRESS IT.

WHAT I WILL TELL YOU IS THAT WE DID HAVE, UH, OVER OVERTIME IN THE CONTEXT CENTER.

RIGHT.

I MEAN, THAT'S IN MY SPACE, BUT I DON'T KNOW, BECAUSE I HAVEN'T DONE THE ANALYSIS.

IF YOU LOOK AT ONE BIG STORM, LIKE EARLY VERSUS THE WHOLE YEAR OF 21 VERSUS PREVIOUS YEARS, I DON'T KNOW THAT I SPENT MORE, UH, IN A YEAR.

AND SO I DON'T KNOW HOW IMPORTANT I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT LATER.

I REALLY WANTED TO FOCUS IN, ON JUST HURRICANE HER, LISTENING TO ME ONCE AGAIN, I'M ON THE HURRICANES ON WINTER STORM URI.

UH, AND SO, UH, BUT YOU DID HAVE OVERTIME BECAUSE OF YOUR, IS THAT CORRECT? IN MOST ARMS AND ALSO YOUR BUILDING, UH, HAD TO BE MAYBE NOT REPAIRED? WAS IT JUST THE ELECTRICITY WAS OFF AND THEY HAD TO RETURN? UH SO I, IN MY REBUTTAL TESTIMONY, I ADDRESSED, UH, STORM COSTS FOR WINTER STORM URI.

OKAY.

AND, AND, UM, I THINK THE ISSUE WAS, UM, UH, FROM ICA, FROM A RECOMMENDATION WAS TO AMORTIZE THOSE COSTS.

UM, I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE QUESTION, MR. OKAY.

I DON'T MEAN TO BE RUDE.

UH IT'S THE QUESTION IS THE, UH, WAS THREE 11, THE CALL CENTER AFFECTED.

AND AT THE FIRST QUESTION I ASKED WAS THEY GOT FROZE OUT.

THE BUILDING GOT FROZE OUT.

SO I WAS ASKING WHAT KIND OF REPAIRS TO THE BUILDING, IF ANY, WERE MADE FOR THE THREE 11 CENTER? YEAH.

I, I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING.

I THINK THAT THERE IS A, UM, I DON'T KNOW THAT, UH, THE, THE TERM WOULD BE FROZE OUT THERE.

THERE WAS AN ISSUE WHERE THERE WAS A MOMENTARY OUTAGE, UH, AND THAT WAS RELATED TO TECHNOLOGY, UH, 4, 3, 1, 1.

UM, BUT THAT WAS NO DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER THAN ANY OTHER, UM, OUTAGE THAT WE MAY EXPERIENCE.

OKAY.

AND SO THEN THE NEXT QUESTION, WHICH, UH, I WANT TO KNOW THEY HAD OVERTIME AND WAS THAT OVERTIME INCLUDED IN THE RESPONSE Y'ALL PROVIDED, UH, THE CONSUMER PEOPLE, WHAT DO THEY CALL INDEPENDENT CONSUMER ADVOCATES? THAT IS CORRECT.

OKAY.

AND THEN, UH, THERE WAS ALSO, AND MAYBE YOU DON'T KNOW THIS, BUT MAYBE MR. MANIS WOULD KNOW, UH, THERE WAS A, UM, IT'S GOT TO THINK OF THAT FANCY NAME HERE, INCIDENT COMMAND TEAM.

THERE WAS, THERE WAS OVER TIME IN THE INCIDENT COMMAND TEAM.

IS THAT CORRECT? THAT THAT'S A, THE UTILITY SIDE, I THINK.

YES, SIR.

IT IS.

YEAH.

YEAH.

KEEP, KEEP IN MIND THOUGH THAT THERE'S INCIDENT COMMANDS FOR THE UTILITY.

AND THEN THERE'S 3, 1, 1 INCIDENT ON THE CITY OF AUSTIN.

I'M ASKING ABOUT THE INCIDENT COMMAND TEAM REGARDING THE STORM URI.

YEAH.

YEAH.

THE CHALLENGE.

I THINK THAT IS NOT, I MEAN, I REALLY WANT THAT ANSWER AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE IT, THAT'S OKAY.

BUT MR. MARTINEZ SOUNDS LIKE HE MIGHT KNOW THIS.

YEAH.

I, I'M NOT SO SURE THAT I CAN QUOTE EXACTLY EVERY UNIT THAT CONTRIBUTED

[00:35:02]

THAT HAD OVERTIME THAT WAS ASSOCIATED WITH URI, BUT IN MY RESPONSE, ACCORDING TO THE WORK ORDER, THAT TRACK, THOSE COSTS, ANYONE THAT HAD OVERTIME WAS INCLUDED THAT WAS ASSOCIATED WITH URI.

AND THEN THE LAST PAGE OF EXHIBIT FIVE.

WELL, LET ME BACK UP.

WE WERE, I CHASED A RABBIT TRAIL AND I APOLOGIZE TO Y'ALL, WE'RE GOING TO GO BACK TO THE WINTER STORM JURY DATA THAT WE KNOW OF.

AND, UH, IF WE LOOK BACK AT EXHIBIT FIVE, UH, AND WE TURN TO PAGES 11 THROUGH 13, YOU WOULD AGREE THAT'S A REPORT THAT AUSTIN ENERGY MADE TO THE PUC REGARDING INFORMATION ABOUT STORM URI.

YES, SIR.

IF IT'S FIVE, PAGE 13 WOULD PROBABLY BE THE BEST PLACE TO LOOK.

OKAY.

I'M THERE.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

NOW THIS, THIS BASICALLY IDENTIFIES THE NUMBER OF CUSTOMERS INVOLVED AND THE AMOUNT OF TIME THAT SERVICE WAS INTERRUPTED BECAUSE OF THE STORMS AND THAT CORRECT.

I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH IT.

YOU'RE NOT WHO, WHO WOULD BE THE PERSON I WOULD TALK WITH ABOUT THIS IT'S PAGE 13.

MR. DOMBROWSKI.

CAN YOU CLARIFY, CAN YOU CLARIFY FOR ME, WHICH EXHIBIT EXHIBIT FIVE, PAGE 13, 13, IT'S THE ACTUAL REPORT AUSTIN ENERGY MADE TO THE PUBLIC UTILITY COMMISSION OF TEXAS.

YES, SIR.

YOU GOT IT.

THAT'S CORRECT.

SO THIS WAS SPONSORED BY, UH, MR. MURPHY IT'LL WILL BE ON THE SECOND PANEL.

YOU WANT ME TO DEFER TO HIM ON THAT? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? IT'S OKAY.

I DON'T MIND.

I'LL I'LL I CAN TRY TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION AS AN EXECUTIVE, BUT I MAY NOT HAVE SPECIFIC.

WELL, THE ONLY QUESTION I HAVE IS DID YOU EVER QUANTIFY THESE LAST MINUTES OF INTERRUPTION INTO REVENUES? NO.

OKAY.

WELL, THAT'S A GOOD, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

AND THEN ON PAGE 19 OF THE SAME EXHIBIT THAT'S EXHIBIT FIVE, PAGE 19, YOU WOULD AGREE THIS IS A PRESS RELEASE FROM AUSTIN ENERGY, TALKING ABOUT THE REOPENING OF THE UTILITY CUSTOMER SERVICE CENTERS.

IS THAT CORRECT? YES, MA'AM ALL RIGHT.

YOU'RE THE MAN NOW, MR. GAVIN.

OKAY.

UH, YOU WOULD AGREE THAT THE NEW SERVICE SAYS THAT IT IT'S DATED OCTOBER 29TH, 2021, IS THAT CORRECT? CORRECT.

AND THAT THE REASON WHY IT WAS CLOSED, AT LEAST IN PART WAS BECAUSE THERE WAS DAMAGE FOR WINTER STORM URI.

IS THAT CORRECT? CORRECT.

NOW, DO YOU KNOW WHETHER THAT COSTS WAS REMOVED FROM THE COST OF SERVICE FOR THE TEST HERE, BUT THAT PROBABLY BE A QUESTION FOR THE SECOND PANEL OR THE, DO YOU HAVE, WHICH, UM, ADDRESS THAT IS? IT IS THE SOUTH BRANCH SOUTH BRANCH.

SO THAT IS A LEASED PROPERTY.

UM, SO WE WOULD NOT HAVE COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH, WITH REPAIRING IT.

THAT WOULD BE THE LANDLORD WHO WOULD DO THAT.

OKAY.

WERE THERE ANY AUSTIN ENERGY BUILDINGS OR, UH, ASSETS, LIKE EQUIPMENT THAT WERE DAMAGED BECAUSE OF WINTER STORM URI THAT HAD TO BE REPAIRED OR REPLACED? I KNOW THAT AT THE, UH, UH, TOWN LAKE CENTER TLC, UH, OUR FORMER CORPORATE OFFICE, THERE WAS A, UH, STANDPIPE THAT ON THE FIFTH FLOOR THAT FROZEN RUPTURED AND WE REPAIRED THAT THOSE COSTS WERE REMOVED FROM THE COST OF SERVICE.

ALL COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH TLC WERE REMOVED.

AND THERE WERE PROBABLY SOME, UH, COSTS ASSOCIATED ON A REGENERATION SIDE, UH, WITH, UH, ELECTRICAL, UH, ISSUES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

BUT THERE WERE NOT SIGNIFICANT.

OKAY.

SO NO OTHER BUILDING, EXCEPT FOR THE ONE THAT Y'ALL LEASE WAS DAMAGED BECAUSE OF WINTER STORM.

CAUSE THERE'S ANOTHER BUILDING THAT THEY MENTIONED.

THAT'S GOING TO BE OPEN LATER ANOTHER CALL CENTER.

I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY OTHER DAMAGE TO ANY OF OUR BUILDINGS THAT WE

[00:40:01]

OWN.

ALL RIGHT.

IS THERE SOMEBODY ELSE ON THE PANEL THAT MIGHT BE MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE, UH, CONCERNING FACILITIES? NOT LIKELY I'M RESPONSIBLE FOR FACILITIES THAT AUSTIN ENERGY AS WELL, AND YOU'RE THE MAN.

OKAY.

NONE OF THE, UH, ASSETS LIKE TRUCKS, SERVICE TRUCKS, AND SERVICE CARS THAT AUSTIN ENERGY OWNS OR LEASES, UH, WERE DAMAGED AND NEEDED TO BE REPAIRED OR REPLACED AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THE STORM.

IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? I DON'T RECALL ANY DAMAGE SPECIFIC, SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE TO THE VEHICLES THAT A RESULT OF WINTER STORM A URI IS WITH ANY SORT OF SERVICE CALL.

THERE'S ALWAYS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR SOME DAMAGE TO VEHICLES, BUT I DON'T RECALL ANY.

OKAY.

AND THEN I KNOW THAT SEVERAL FEEDERS OR SUBSTATIONS, THEY WENT DOWN AND YOU USUALLY HAVE TO HAVE MATERIAL TO, UH, REPAIR THAT, UH, UH, DID Y'ALL ACCOUNT FOR ALL OF THE, UH, MATERIAL THAT WAS USED IN THE REPAIRS OF, UH, THE AUSTIN ENERGY INFRASTRUCTURE THAT ALLOWED PEOPLE TO GET BACK ON FROM WINTER STORM URI, RIGHT.

THERE WERE, THERE WERE NO ADJUSTMENTS TO COSTS FOR WINTER STORM DURING, I MEAN, THAT WAS, THAT WAS ASKED AND ANSWERED.

UM, I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY SINCE YOU ASKED THAT, UM, UH, THERE'S BEEN A LOT SAID THAT WINTER STORM YURI HAS BEEN A SIGNIFICANT EVENT AND CERTAINLY WAS, UH, CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO UNDERPLAY THE SERIOUSNESS OF, OF WINTER STORM EARRING, UH, AND SUBSEQUENT CONSEQUENCES OF THOSE, BUT WINTER STORM YURI, UH, WHILE IT WAS A SIGNIFICANT EVENT, WAS NOT LIKE AN EVENT SUCH AS HURRICANES COMING THROUGH AND SWAMPING SUBSTATIONS OR TEARING DOWN LINES, OR, UH, SAY A HURRICANE, A TORNADO COMING THROUGH AND DISRUPTING, UH, THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM, WINTER STORM URI.

AND THOSE OUTAGES WERE RESULT OF ERCOT GENERATION, NOT BEING SUFFICIENT TO SERVE THE LOAD.

AND I FIND IT INTERESTING, UH, THAT THE ADJUSTMENT TO AMORTIZE THAT, UM, BECAUSE IT WAS SOME TYPE OF SIGNIFICANT, YEAH, I DON'T MEAN TO BE RUDE, BUT I DIDN'T ASK YOU ABOUT THAT ISSUE.

AND I WISH I HAD MORE TIME TO YOUR POINT.

PLEASE MAKE IT QUICK TIP TOP FOR ME, UH, OF THOSE STORM COSTS, RIGHT.

OF THOSE STORM COSTS THE MAJORITY, WELL OF THE 6.8.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE STORM COSTS THEIR REGULAR WAGES OVER TIME AND CONTRACTOR SERVICES, WHAT IF YOU'LL NOTICE WHAT WASN'T IN THERE? POLES, MATERIALS, TRANSFORMERS, BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT OF SIGNIFICANT CONSEQUENCE IN THIS STORM BECAUSE IT DIDN'T DAMAGE THE SYSTEM.

DID THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? MA'AM IT DID.

UH, BUT I RECALL I, I READ THIS REPORT, SKIM, READ IT.

THAT'S WHY I CAN'T RECALL IT VERY WELL, UH, THAT THERE WERE SOME THINGS ON THE LINE THAT AS A RESULT OF COLD START GOT DAMAGED AGAIN AND GOT DAMAGED AGAIN.

AND, UH, I GUESS I'D LIKE YOUR HONOR TO, UH, TAKE OFFICIAL NOTICE.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU NEED A COPY OF THIS IN THE, IN THE BOX IT'S, IT'S THE AUSTIN ENERGY, FEBRUARY WINTER STORMS AFTER ACTION REPORT.

I CANNOT TAKE NOTICE OF SOMETHING THAT WE DON'T HAVE OVER HERE, UNLESS UNLESS IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S ONLINE THAT I CAN DO.

IT'S ONLINE, IT'S ON THE AUSTIN ENERGY WEBSITE.

OKAY.

UM, BUT AGAIN, I'M SORRY, GO AHEAD, MR. BARRETT.

I WAS JUST GOING TO ASK IF SHE HAD A COPY OF WHAT SHE'S LOOKING AT.

I'M NOT SURE WHAT SHE IS.

MY ONLY COPY.

JUST, COULD YOU PLEASE THAT DOCUMENT, GET IT LIKE A BIG DINNER TABLE, HUH? ALRIGHT.

THANK YOU, THOMAS.

I DON'T HAVE AN,

[00:45:01]

I DON'T HAVE AN OBJECTION, UH, WITH MS. COOPER ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS DOCUMENT.

IT IS AN AUSTIN ENERGY DOCUMENT.

I DON'T THINK IT'S OF THE SORT OF, UM, MATERIAL THAT YOU WOULD TAKE JUDICIAL NOTICE OF.

UM, BUT I DON'T HAVE HER, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH HER ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT IT.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE WITNESSES KNOW ABOUT THIS, BUT, UM, BUT IT IS OUR DOCUMENT.

YEAH.

LET ME JUST SAY A COUPLE OF THINGS ABOUT THAT, BUT I DON'T EVEN, IT'S NOT JUDICIAL NOTICE.

IT'S OFFICIAL NOTICE.

I'M NOT EVEN SURE IT'S ADMINISTRATIVE NOTICE.

UH, I COULD TAKE NOTICE IN QUOTES OF IT, UH, BUT IF, IF YOU'RE GOING TO REFER TO IT AND I WILL TAKE NOTICE OF IT, IF IT'S ON AUSTIN ENERGY'S WEBSITE AND PUBLICLY AVAILABLE, BUT IF YOU'RE GOING TO REFER TO IT IN BRIEFING, PLEASE PROVIDE, UH, A WEB LINK SO THAT WE CAN.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

OKAY.

AND IS THAT, IS I SAID, YOUR HONOR, I DON'T MIND HER ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT IT AGAIN.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY MAY OR MAY NOT KNOW, BUT AS FAR AS ADMISSIBILITY, I MEAN, THAT'S A DIFFERENT QUESTION, UM, THROUGH ASKING QUESTIONS, RONALD, LET'S MAKE IT QUICK THERE.

ALL RIGHT.

SO, UH, I'D LIKE TO TURN NOW TO, UH, THE DEBT SERVICE OR THE GENERAL FUND TRANSFER AND I WON'T BELABOR IT.

I KNOW Y'ALL TALKED ABOUT IT YESTERDAY AND WE CAN KEEP CONTINUING TO TALK ABOUT IT, BUT IF YOU COULD TELL ME WHAT IS AUSTIN ENERGY'S FINANCIAL POLICIES ON THE GENERAL FUND TRANSFER, PLEASE? AND AGAIN, YOUR HONOR, IS THERE A PLACE IN THE REBUTTAL TESTIMONY THAT THIS IS PETER SAID, MISS COOPER'S FOCUSING ON THE REBUTTAL TESTIMONY, UH, ADDRESSED.

I THINK BOTH OF THE FINANCIAL WITNESSES OF THE T I E C AND NXP ADDRESSING THE GENERAL FUND TRANSFER, THEY DISAGREED WITH THE ADJUSTMENT THAT WAS MADE FOR THE GENERAL FUND TRANSFER.

SO TO THAT EXTENT, IT'S WITHIN THE SUBJECT AREA OF RECROSS ESTABROOK CATO.

IS THERE, THERE IS SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT GFT AND SOME OF THE REBUTTAL TESTIMONY THAT THAT'S TRUE.

ALL RIGHT.

CAN WE KEEP IT FOCUSED MS. COOPER ON WHAT WAS DISCUSSED IN REBUTTAL? YES.

OKAY.

IN OTHER WORDS, G WELL, GFT IS A RATHER LARGE TOPIC, SO TRY TO KEEP IT FUN TRANSFER.

UH IT'S IT'S THE CALCULATION.

AND THAT'S WHY I WANTED TO ASK ABOUT THE FINANCIAL POLICY, BECAUSE I THINK THAT SHOULD, IS THERE A CALCULATION INCLUDED IN THE FINANCIAL POLICY FOR THE GENERAL FUND TRANSFER OF AUSTIN ENERGY'S FINANCIAL POLICIES? YES.

AUSTIN ENTITY GENERAL, UM, EXCUSE ME, AUSTIN ENERGY'S FINANCIAL POLICY NUMBER 13 STATES.

THE GENERAL FUND TRANSFER SHALL NOT EXCEED 12% OF AUSTIN.

ENERGY'S THREE-YEAR AVERAGE REVENUES, LESS POWER SUPPLY COST AND ONSITE ENERGY RESOURCE REVENUE CALCULATED USING THE CURRENT YEAR ESTIMATE IN THE PREVIOUS TWO YEARS, ACTUAL REVENUE, LESS POWER SUPPLY COST AND ONSITE ENERGY RESOURCE FOR REVENUE FROM THE CITY IS COMPREHENSIVE ANNUAL FINANCIAL REPORT.

ALL RIGHT.

AND IF YOU COULD, UH, THANK YOU MR. JEREMY BASKET.

I DIDN'T MEAN TO, UH, IF YOU COULD PULL UP EXHIBIT 18, PLEASE.

ARE YOU THERE? OKAY.

THANK YOU.

YES.

AND WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO IS TAKE THAT POLICY AND APPLY IT TO FISCAL YEAR 2021.

SO DO YOU HAVE A CALCULATOR UP THERE? IT SHOULD BE A QUICK MATH THING FOR YOU.

SORRY.

I DO NOT.

CAN I APPROACH THE WITNESS, YOUR HONOR? IT'S A BIG ONE, BUT I NEED IT FOR MY AGE.

YES ALL RIGHT.

SO HOW LET'S GO THROUGH IT? SO IT'S YOU TAKE THE AVERAGE OF, I GUESS IT WOULD BE 20 19, 20, 20 AND 2021.

IS THAT CORRECT REVENUES? SO WHAT ARE YOU REFERRING TO UP ON PAGE ON EXHIBIT 18? ARE YOU TRYING TO RECALCULATE THE GFT IN THE COST OF SERVICE?

[00:50:01]

NO, I'M DOING IT FOR FISCAL YEAR 2021.

UM, YEAH, I'M NOT SURE THIS WOULDN'T INCLUDE THE INFORMATION THAT YOU WOULD NEED TO CALCULATE THE GFT FOR 2021.

ALL RIGHT.

THIS IS A QUESTION ASK MR. ROBBINS SAID THAT HER CALCULATIONS DIDN'T WERE INCORRECT BECAUSE THEY USE THE WRONG REVENUES AS THE BASIS.

THE, THE ORIGINAL QUESTION I WAS, WHAT IS YOUR GFT, YOUR ANNUAL GFT AS A PERCENT OF YOUR ANNUAL ACTUAL REVENUE, WHICH IS NOT HOW THE REVENUE, I'M SORRY, NOT HOW THE GFT IS CALCULATED.

IT'S JUST THE RESULTS OF OUR GFT ON OUR ACTUAL REVENUE.

WHAT THIS SAYS IS PLEASE PROVIDE THE REVENUES.

MR. RAVIN BELIEVES ARE THE CORRECT REVENUES FOR FISCAL YEAR 20 18, 20 19, 20, 20, AND 2021.

THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN USED TO APPLY THE 12% I UNDERSTAND.

BUT THAT, THAT WAS JUST SAYING THE REVENUES THAT ARE CONSIDERED.

SO, UM, WE CONSIDER OPERATING REVENUE, LESS POWER SUPPLY REVENUE, LESS DISTRICT COOLING, BUT THE ORIGINAL REQUEST WAS MY UNDERSTANDING OF IT WAS PROVIDE ME YOUR ANNUAL GFT AND YOUR ANNUAL REVENUE.

THAT IS NOT WHAT THIS SAYS.

DOES IT, CAN YOU LOOK AT THE, CAN YOU LOOK AT PAGE TWO AND DOES IT SAY, PLEASE PROVIDE THE REVENUES.

MR. RAVEN BELIEVES ARE THE CORRECT REVENUES FOR FISCAL YEAR 20 18, 20 19, 20, 20, AND 2021.

THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN USED TO APPLY THE 12%.

THEN THIS IS THAT WHAT THAT SAYS.

THAT IS WHAT THAT SAYS.

AND IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE CONTENDING, THEN I THINK THERE WAS SOME MISUNDERSTANDING ON THE INTERPRETATION.

YEAH, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT, WHY ISN'T THIS A QUESTION FOR MR. RAY? I WILL WAIT FOR MR. ROBIN.

I'LL MOVE ON.

THANK YOU.

THAT'S A GOOD POINT, YOUR HONOR.

OKAY, SO YOU'RE, YOU'RE DISAGREEING.

LOOK.

JUST ONE MORE QUESTION ON IT, JUST TO BE CLEAR FOR THE RECORD.

YOU'RE SAYING THAT THESE REVENUES THAT ARE LISTED HERE ARE NOT THE REVENUES THAT AUSTIN ENERGY RELIED ON AS BASED TO MULTIPLY THE 12%.

IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? THAT'S CORRECT.

THESE ARE THE ACTUAL REVENUES FOR THE YEAR ON THE INDIVIDUAL YEAR.

THE, WHAT WE WOULD APPLY AT 12% ON WOULD BE THE TWO YEARS PRIOR AND THE ESTIMATE FOR EACH ONE OF THOSE YEARS.

SO WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME IS THAT IT'S NOT RESPONSIVE TO MY QUESTION.

IT LOOKS LIKE NOT YOUR HONOR, MR. RAVEN'S GOING TO BE ON, ON REBUTTAL.

I WOULD APPRECIATE IT IF THEY WOULD PROVIDE US THE CORRECT REVENUES THAT WE ASKED FOR IN THE RFI.

SO I DID RESPOND TO THE RFI AND IT WAS JUST MY INTERPRETATION OF THE QUESTION THAT WAS INCORRECT, SO I CAN PROVIDE UPDATED NUMBERS IF IT'S NECESSARY.

OKAY.

UM, WE WOULD APPRECIATE IT, YOUR HONOR.

UM, IF YOU COULD PROVIDE UPDATED NUMBERS, WHAT W HOW, HOW QUICKLY COULD YOU HAVE THOSE TODAY'S THE LAST DAY OF THE HEARING AS SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET THEM QUICKLY? THE ACTUALS ARE CORRECT.

IT'S JUST GETTING THE ESTIMATES FOR EACH OF THOSE YEARS.

UM, RIGHT.

YOU'VE GOT THE ACTUALS FOR THE TWO YEARS PRIOR.

YOU NEED THE ESTIMATES.

OKAY.

MS. GONZALEZ FOR 2020, IF WE'RE DOING FISCAL, I ASKED YOU TO CALCULATE FISCAL YEAR 2021, AND YOU WOULD USE THE ACTUAL REVENUES FOR FISCAL YEAR 20, 19 AND 2020S.

AND THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.

SO THE ONLY ONE YOU'RE LOOKING AT WOULD BE THE ESTIMATE FOR FISCAL YEAR 2021.

IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.

ALL RIGHT.

I JUST WANTED THAT TO BE CLEAR, YOUR HONOR.

THANK YOU, MS. GONZALEZ? YES.

ALL RIGHT.

OKAY.

SO THE DEBT SERVICE TRANSFER, Y'ALL TALKED ABOUT THE DEBT SERVICE COVERAGE, AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S IN CONTROVERSY FROM THE, UH, REBUTTAL TESTIMONY.

AND IF YOU COULD LOOK AT, LET ME SEE WHERE IT IS HERE.

JUST BE PATIENT.

I APOLOGIZE.

I TRY TO BE ORDERLY, BUT THAT'S NOT MY NATURE.

I THINK IT'S, I THINK THE EXHIBIT EXHIBIT TWO.

SO LET'S LOOK AND SEE IF THAT'S IT HERE.

[00:55:05]

DO YOU HAVE EXHIBIT TWO IN FRONT OF YOU, MS. GONZALEZ? UH, YES.

UH, EXHIBIT TWO IS HERE.

WE HAVE IT.

AND WHAT THIS EXHIBIT TALKS ABOUT, AND WE LOOK AT PAGE THREE.

ARE YOU THERE? YES, MA'AM ALL RIGHT.

UH, THAT SETS OUT HOW AUSTIN ENERGY EXPLAINED HOW YOU ESTABLISH THE DEBT SERVICE COVERAGE.

IS THAT CORRECT? TH THIS CALCULATION WAS PERFORMED, UH, BY WITNESS GRANT, RAVEN.

ALL RIGHT.

SO I SHOULD WAIT FOR HIM.

I JUST WANTED TO CLEAR, CLEAR THE BASE.

I'D HATE TO HAVE MR. RAVEN SAID, GOD, YOU SHOULD TALK TO THOSE GUYS AHEAD OF IN FRONT OF US.

WHAT IS YOUR, SO PERHAPS I COULD STREAMLINE IT.

WHAT IS YOUR, YOUR BOTTOM LINE QUESTION? PERHAPS? I CAN ANSWER THAT IF IT'S ABOUT THE EXHIBIT ITSELF, THAT WOULD BE MR. RAVEN.

NO, NO.

I'M NOT ASKING FOR THE CORRECTNESS OF THE EXHIBIT OR WHAT IT SPECIFICALLY SAYS, PER SE, CHALLENGING IT, UM, UH, WHAT WAS IN AND WHAT YOU CAN, WHAT IS IDENTIFIED HERE ARE THE COMPONENTS, AND YOU WOULD AGREE OF THE NON-UTILITY BUSINESS THAT WOULD BE USED IF YOU USE THOSE COMPONENTS TO CREATE A DEBT SERVICE COVERAGE JUST FOR THAT NON UTILITY BUSINESSES AND THAT CORRECT.

THAT'S CORRECT.

WE HAVE THE NON ELECTRIC REVENUE AND WE HAVE THE NON ELECTRIC EXPENSES AND WE HAVE THE NON ELECTRIC DEBT SERVICE.

ALL RIGHT.

AND WHAT WOULD BE THE NON-ELECTRIC DEBT SERVICE? IT IS ANY OF OUR LONG-TERM DEBT THAT'S ASSOCIATED WITH DEBT ISSUED FOR NON ELECTRIC SERVICE, MOSTLY, UH, DISTRICT COOLING.

I THOUGHT, I'M SORRY.

MAYBE I MISSTATED IT.

LET ME REPHRASE IT.

WHAT WOULD BE THE USING THESE FORMULAS? WHAT WOULD BE THE DEBT SERVICE COVERAGE FOR THE NON UTILITY BUSINESS? I BELIEVE IT'S A 0.67.

ALL RIGHT.

AND THAT DOESN'T EVEN COVER THE DEBT SERVICE THAT NEEDS TO BE, UH, A SERVICE.

IS THAT CORRECT FOR THAT TEST YEAR? THAT IS CORRECT.

RIGHT.

IT'S IN DEBT.

SURFACE IS KIND OF LIKE A MORTGAGE.

AND SO IT'S LIKE A DEBT AND THE INTEREST AND WHATEVER ELSE.

AND SO, DO YOU KNOW WHAT AMOUNT OF MONEY WOULD BE NEEDED TO HAVE THE NON-ELECTRIC UTILITY? UH, OR YOU COULD TELL ME HOW I COULD CALCULATE WHAT AMOUNT OF MONEY WOULD BE NEEDED TO MAKE, UH, THE NON-ELECTRIC UTILITIES, DEBT, SERVICE, COVERAGE, BE JUST ONE WHERE THEY'RE ACTUALLY PAYING THEIR WAY.

IT WOULD BE 15 MILLION, $400,861.

WELL, THAT'S, THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE DEBT, CORRECT? I'M TALKING ABOUT THE DEBT SERVICE COVERAGE OF ONE.

HOW WOULD WE, HOW WOULD WE GET THAT NUMBER? WOULDN'T THAT JUST BE LIKE A MATH THING? YES.

ALL RIGHT.

SO WE WOULD, UH, AND WHAT, HOW WOULD YOU CALCULATE IT? YOU DON'T NEED TO DO IT, BUT HOW WOULD YOU CALCULATE IT TO COME UP WITH A DEBT SERVICE COVERAGE OF ONE YOU'VE GOT THE REVENUE HERE, CORRECT? YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE MORE REVENUE.

ALL RIGHT.

AND SO YOU HAD YOU TAKE YOUR REVENUE, YOU SUBTRACT YOUR EXPENSES, IT GETS YOU NET INCOME.

THAT NET INCOME WOULD NEED TO BE EQUAL TO THE DEBT SERVICE OF 15 MILLION, $400,861.

AND THAT WOULD GIVE YOU A DEBT SERVICE COVERAGE ONE.

ALL RIGHT.

OKAY.

WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

I'M NOT GOOD AT MATH I MIGHT ADD JUST, JUST TO CLARIFY THAT ALL NON ELECTRIC COSTS HAVE BEEN REMOVED FROM THE, FROM THE REVENUE REQUIREMENT AND THAT THE COST OF SERVICE IS NOT SEEKING TO RECOVER ANY COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH NON UTILITY OPERATIONS.

I UNDERSTAND MR. MANUS, BUT DIDN'T YOU USE THE PROPOSED REVENUES TO FORM THE CALCULATION FOR THE DEBT SERVICE COVERAGE.

WE'RE GOING TO DEFER TO MR. RAVEN ON THAT.

THAT SOUNDS GOOD.

AND IF WE COULD LOOK AT, WELL, ACTUALLY, I DON'T THINK YOU REMEMBER.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER THERE'S SO MUCH HAS HAPPENED, BUT

[01:00:01]

I ASKED YOU ABOUT A QUESTION ABOUT AN $8 MILLION BILLING COST THAT I COULDN'T FIND.

AND I THINK YOU DEFERRED IT TO SOMEBODY IN THE SECOND PANEL, BUT JUST TO BE DOUBLY SURE.

IF YOU WANT IT TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 19 TO REFRESH YOUR MEMORY, I DON'T WANT, YES.

MA'AM CERTAINLY WE'LL LOOK AT EXHIBIT 19.

YES, SIR.

AND THAT SHOULD BE THE ONE WHERE ON, ON 19 MA'AM I'M FIXING, I'M LOOKING FOR HERE.

I SHOULD HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT AS QUICK AS YOU MS. GONZALEZ, GO AHEAD.

UH, LET ME FINISH THIS.

I DON'T WANT TO MUDDY THE RECORD.

I APOLOGIZE ON PAGE NINE ON EXHIBIT 19.

DO YOU HAVE IT IN FRONT OF YOU, SIR? YES, MA'AM.

AND IF YOU LOOK AT G IT SAYS THE ANNUAL COST FOR O AND M OF THE BILLING SYSTEM IS APPROXIMATELY 8.2 MILLION.

DO YOU RECALL THIS QUESTION NOW? I THINK YOU'RE THE ONE WHO ANSWERED, WHO ASKED HIM, UH, AND DIDN'T YOU TELL ME THAT SOMEBODY IN THE SECOND PANEL WOULD BE A BETTER PERSON TO ANSWER THAT.

AND WHAT WAS, WHAT WAS, CAN YOU REMIND ME WHAT THE QUESTION WAS ASKED? WHERE WOULD IT BE IN THE RATE FILING PACKAGE? WOULD IT BE MR. RAVEN? YES, MA'AM.

I BELIEVE I DID DEFER THAT TO MR. RAVEN.

ALL RIGHT, WELL, I'LL MOVE ON THEN.

AND ONE LAST CLARIFYING QUESTION ON THE, UH, THE GENERAL FUND TRANSFER, UH, WILL SOMEBODY IN THE SECOND PANEL BE ABLE TO ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS? IF THE ESTIMATED REVENUES ARE SUBSTANTIALLY HIGHER THAN THE ACTUAL REVENUES FROM FEBRUARY, 2021.

I'M NOT TRYING TO GIVE YOU A HARD TIME.

I JUST WANNA, I THINK I CAN TRY TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION IF YOU, CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THE QUESTION IS AGAIN? WELL, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ESTIMATED REVENUES ARE FOR FISCAL YEAR 2021.

ALL RIGHT.

AND YOU'RE GOING TO PROVIDE THAT BEFORE THE SECOND PANEL COMES, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S GOING TO BE ANYBODY IN THE SECOND PANEL.

WE'LL BE ABLE TO ANSWER SOME FURTHER QUESTIONS BASED ON THE INFORMATION.

SO CAN YOU TELL ME YOUR HYPOTHETICAL? WELL, I WOULD VENTURE TO SAY AN ON THAT THE ESTIMATED REVENUES WERE HIGHER THAN, THAN, THAN THE ACTUAL REVENUES THAT OCCURRED.

AND IN THAT CASE, IF WE HAD TWO YEARS ACTUAL AND ONE-YEAR ESTIMATE, AND WE MULTIPLIED THAT BY 12%, OUR GFT REQUIREMENT WOULD BE WHATEVER IT IS, WHETHER IT COMES OUT MORE OR LESS THAN ACTUALS.

AND THAT'S WHAT THE, THE PRESENTATION THAT WE DID PROVIDE SHOWED THAT THERE WERE TWO OR THREE YEARS.

I BELIEVE THAT OUR PERCENTAGE WAS LOWER.

AND THEN A YEAR WHERE OUR PERCENTAGE WAS HIGHER THAN ACTUAL, I DON'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S RESPONSIVE.

AND I, I DON'T THINK I CARE ABOUT THE ANSWER ANYMORE.

I THINK THAT THE FACT, THE THING WILL SPEAK FOR ITSELF, BUT I APPRECIATE YOU TRYING TO HELP ME UNDERSTAND THAT.

AND I APPRECIATE ALL OF Y'ALL'S HELP.

AND I'M SORRY THAT I HAD TO KEEP INTERRUPTING YOU.

AND TO THAT END, YOUR HONOR, UH, WE HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU.

DATA FOUNDRY.

UH, YOUR HONOR, MATT, JUST POINT OF CLARIFICATION, UM, FROM, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, IF MS. GONZALES IS GOING TO PRODUCE NEW NUMBERS DURING THIS DAY, THEN PARTIES NEED TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THEM AND CROSS EXAMINE HER REGARDLESS OF THE PANEL STRUCTURE.

AND I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S GOING TO BE NECESSARY.

I DIDN'T FOLLOW ALL OF THAT.

I JUST WANTED TO THROW THAT OUT THERE.

YES.

I WAS ALREADY THINKING WE MIGHT NEED TO DO THAT.

LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT IT AND TAKE IT UP IN A BIT ITCH, BUT IT'S GOING TO BE LIMITED TO, UH, THIS ESTIMATE FOR 21.

ALRIGHT.

UM, DATA FOUNDRY, NO QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR.

HERFF YES, YOUR HONOR.

UH, MR. YOU TESTIFIED IN THE 2016 RATE HEARING, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.

AND IN THAT HEARING, UH, YOU TESTIFIED THAT THE REASON FOR THE RATE DIFFERENTIAL BETWEEN INSIDE AND OUTSIDE CITY CUSTOMERS WAS A MATTER OF PUBLIC POLICY.

DO YOU RECALL THAT? I DON'T RECALL THAT SPECIFIC TESTIMONY.

NO.

WELL, WILL YOU TAKE IT SINCE I HAVE THE RECORD THAT YOU TESTIFIED THAT IT WAS A MATTER OF PUBLIC POLICY? DO YOU HAVE ANY REASON TO DISPUTE THAT? I DON'T THINK I CAN DISPUTE IT CAUSE I DON'T RECALL IT PERHAPS I DID.

IF YOU HAVE THE RECORD, UH, HAS THE CITY COUNCIL SINCE 2016, UH, ADOPTED ANY ORDINANCE

[01:05:01]

OR REFERENDUM THAT WOULD CHANGE THE POLICY AS TO ELECTRIC RATES FOR OUTSIDE CITY CUSTOMERS SO EACH YEAR THEY ADOPT A BUDGET ORDINANCE THAT HAS, UM, RATES FOR OUTSIDE CITY CUSTOMERS THAT EXCLUDES THE, UH, AREAS, UH, STREET LIGHTING.

AND SO TO THAT EXTENT, IT WOULD CHANGE THE RATES PAID BY OUTSIDE CITY CUSTOMERS.

THAT WOULD BE A CHANGE IN POLICY, I ASSUME, IN REGARDS TO BASE RATES, NO, WE HAVE NOT ADOPTED A NEW BASE RATES IN YOUR REBUTTAL TESTIMONY AT PAGE 17, YOU STATE THAT, UH, THE REDUCTION FOR OUTSIDE CITY CUSTOMERS WAS THROUGH A GENERAL REDUCTION IN THEIR REVENUE REQUIREMENT, NOT THROUGH A REDUCTION IN GENERAL FUND TRANSFERS.

THAT CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT.

BUT WOULD YOU AGREE WITH ME THAT THE REDUCTION IN THE REVENUE REQUIREMENT IS FUNCTIONALLY EQUIVALENT TO THE OUTSIDE CITY CUSTOMERS SHARE OF THE GENERAL FUND TRANSFER? THAT WAS A NUMBER I BELIEVE DERIVED IN THE 2012, UM, RAPE RATE REVIEW.

AND I WAS NOT WITH AUSTIN ENERGY AT THAT TIME.

SO I, I CAN'T MAKE THAT DIRECT ASSOCIATION, BUT THE 2016 RAPE CASE, THE CITY ATTEMPTED DID IT NOT TO KEEP THE RATES FOR OUTSIDE CITY CUSTOMERS, FUNCTIONALLY EQUIVALENT TO IN THE 2012, RIGHT CASE.

I RECALL CORRECTLY THAT THAT SAME AMOUNT OF, UM, AGREEMENT THROUGH THE BLACK BOX AGREEMENT WAS, UH, INCLUDED FOR OUTSIDE CITY CUSTOMERS.

WE MAINTAIN THAT DIFFERENTIAL.

AND IN YOUR REBUTTAL TESTIMONY, YOU DIDN'T PROVIDE ANY EVIDENCE THAT OUTSIDE CITY CUSTOMERS DERIVE ANY BENEFIT FROM THE CITY'S GENERAL FUND TRANSFERS THAT CORRECT.

CAN YOU STATE THAT QUESTION AGAIN IN YOUR REBUTTAL TESTIMONY, YOU PROVIDED NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THE IDEA THAT OUTSIDE CITY CUSTOMERS DERIVE ANY BENEFIT FROM THE CITY'S EXPENDITURES FROM THE GENERAL FUND? NO, AND I DON'T BELIEVE I WAS REQUIRED TO PASS THE WITNESS.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

UM, SSC, NO QUESTIONS.

AND, UH, MR. BRAZELLE, HOW MUCH TIME DO YOU HAVE? I'M WONDERING IF NOW ISN'T A GOOD TIME TO TAKE A QUICK BREAK AND THEN I THINK A BREAK WOULD BE, IT'D BE HELPFUL.

AND I THINK IT'S A GOOD TIME FOR IT.

UH, I'M GOING TO TRY TO KEEP IT BELOW 30 MINUTES.

OKAY.

LET'S TAKE, YES.

LET'S TAKE 10, THEN 10 TO 15.

THANK YOU.

OFF THE RECORD.

WE READY? LET'S GO BACK ON THE RECORD, MR. BRAZELLE, WHENEVER YOU'RE READY.

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

THANK YOU.

GOOD MORNING PANEL.

UH, GOOD TO SEE Y'ALL AGAIN.

I LAID OUT SOME EXHIBITS FOR YOU, IF YOU CAN JUST MAKE SURE YOU'VE GOT THOSE IN FRONT OF YOU, MR. MARTINEZ, UH, IN FRONT OF YOU.

I THINK I PUT, UH, OUR EXHIBIT NUMBER SEVEN AND 11 AND GOT THOSE.

OKAY.

AND, UH, MR. DABROWSKI, I'VE PUT IN FRONT OF YOU.

I BELIEVE OUR EXHIBITS NUMBERS 12, 13, 14.

OKAY.

WE'LL GET TO THOSE LATER.

I'M GOING TO TRY TO JUST GO KIND OF FOLLOWS YOUR TESTIMONY FOR THIS, UH, FOR THIS, UH, CROSS.

UM, I MAY JUMP AROUND JUST BECAUSE IN SOME OF YOUR TESTIMONY, YOU YOU'VE DISCUSSED THE SAME ISSUE IN THE BAR, IN THE FRONT PART AND IN THE BACK AS WELL.

IT SEEMS LIKE.

SO I'LL COVER THOSE AT THE SAME TIME.

UM, BUT LET ME START WITH YOU, MR. MARTINEZ.

UH, FIRST OF ALL, ON PAGE TWO, FOUR OF YOUR TESTIMONY, YOU'VE NOTED THAT YOU ARE, UH, THE SUBJECT OF YOUR REBUTTAL INCLUDES MR. TESTIMONY AND ALSO SOME TESTIMONY OF CYRUS READ, CORRECT? THAT'S UP THERE ON ABOUT LINE TIM OR SO? YES, IT SAYS, UH, I ALSO ADDRESS THE CHANGES TO THE METHODOLOGY TO IMPUTE THE VALUE OF SELLER DISCUSSED BY SIERRA CUB, PUBLIC CITIZEN, SOLAR UNITED WITNESS WITNESSES, CYRUS READING, CARL RABAGO AND PROPOSALS MADE BY SOLAR AND STORAGE COALITION.

RIGHT.

AND THEN ON PAGE NINE, UM, AROUND LINE NINE, YOU ALSO AGAIN SAY THAT YOU'RE ADDRESSING WITNESSES, CYRUS REED AND CARL RABAGO CORRECT.

UH, YES.

I BELIEVE THE QUESTION WAS, DID ANY INTERVENERS OBJECT AND THE ANSWER WAS YES, UH, WITNESSES, CYRUS REED, AND CARL RABAGO AS WELL AS THE S S RIGHT.

SO THE FIRST AREA I WANT TO TALK ABOUT JUST BRIEFLY IS CYRUS REED'S TESTIMONY THAT YOU'RE REBUTTING AND HIS CONCERNS.

UH, AND I DON'T THINK YOU PROBABLY

[01:10:01]

DON'T HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU HIS TESTIMONY, BUT, WELL, LET ME ASK YOU, IF YOU DO, DO YOU HAVE MR. REED'S TESTIMONY IN FRONT OF YOU? NO, NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.

THAT'S FINE.

IF YOU DON'T.

I JUST WANTED TO SEE IF YOU DID.

UM, BUT DO YOU RECALL THAT ON PAGE 10 OR IN CYRUS REED'S TESTIMONY, HE HAD TWO KIND OF PRINCIPAL CONCERNS ABOUT THE EES.

ONE OF THEM WAS THAT IF YOU CHANGED THE VOS RECOVERY METHODOLOGY, YOU FOR PART OF IT, THAT THAT WOULD THEN REQUIRE YOU TO RECOVER COSTS OUT OF THE EXISTING EES, MAYBE EVEN AS MUCH AS $4 MILLION THAT ARE NOT ALREADY BEING COLLECTED.

AND THAT, THAT WOULD PUT PRESSURE ON ALL THE OTHER EES PROGRAMS THAT, THAT FEE SUPPORTS.

DO YOU RECALL THAT GENERALLY? YES.

RIGHT.

AND DO YOU ALSO RECALL THAT HIS KIND OF FOLLOW-UP CONCERN ONE OF THE QUICK QUESTION THOUGH, AND YOU HAD Y'ALL THE COMPANY ADDRESSED THAT CONCERN, AT LEAST IN PART BY POINTING OUT THAT, UM, THE EES WAS KEY BECAUSE IT WAS NOT SET IN THE RIGHT CASE, IT WAS SET IN THE BUDGET PROCESS AND THE SOLUTION WAS JUST AT THE BUDGET COULD BE EXPANDED TO ALLOW FOR THE, FOR THE NEW CHARGES.

CORRECT.

I, I DON'T KNOW THAT I, THOSE RESPONSES, BUT I DO REMEMBER, BUT IS THAT CORRECT? TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE.

OKAY, GOOD.

AND DO YOU THEN RECALL THAT MR. REED'S NEXT CONCERN WAS WELL? OKAY.

IF THAT'S FINE.

IF, SO HIS CONCERN THEN WAS THAT THE BUDGET PROCESS WAS VERY COMPRESSED, UNFAIRLY, COMPRESSED, AND IS ALSO SO CLUTTERED WITH ISSUES THAT IT'S A GOOD PLACE FOR THE ISSUE TO GO AND GET LOST.

YOU RECALL THAT IN HIS TESTIMONY? NO, I DON'T.

OKAY.

UH, DO YOU DISPUTE THAT IT'S IN HIS TESTIMONY AND I'LL JUST REPRESENT IT AS ON PAGE 11 OF HIS TESTIMONY? I, I DON'T KNOW.

WHAT'S IN THE TESTIMONY.

I DON'T RECALL.

SO JUST LET'S TALK ABOUT THE BUDGET PROCESS BRIEFLY.

YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THE BUDGET PROCESS, CORRECT? YES.

AND THE BUDGET PROCESS, UH, THE BUDGET IS ONLY COMES OUT FOR PUBLIC REVIEW AND FOR REVIEW BY THE COMMITTEES, THE RMC IN THE EEC ON OR ON OR AROUND JULY 15TH OF EACH YEAR, CORRECT? UH, I BELIEVE THAT'S RIGHT.

AND THEN THERE ARE POTENTIALLY, MAYBE THERE'S POTENTIALLY, MAY BE ONE MEETING OF COUNCIL AND OF THESE COMMITTEES.

AND THEN THE COUNCIL DECIDES THE BUDGET BY, UM, AUGUST, CORRECT? I BELIEVE THAT'S CORRECT.

DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE BASIS OF MR. REED'S CONCERN THAT THIS IS COMPLICATED STUFF? IT'S IMPORTANT IT'S AND YET THERE'S REALLY NOT AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW IT FAIRLY IN THIS BUDGET PROCESS.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND HIS CONCERN? I, I CERTAINLY THINK THAT THERE ARE AMPLE OPPORTUNITIES THROUGHOUT THE YEAR THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY