Link

Social

Embed

Disable autoplay on embedded content?

Download

Download
Download Transcript


YEAH.

[00:00:02]

OKAY.

FOLKS, I'D LIKE TO GO AHEAD AND GET STARTED.

CAN WE CONFIRM THAT THE CITY'S READY? THE CLERK'S OFFICE.

OKAY, GOOD.

AND ARE WE GOOD IN THE SOUND BOOTH? GREAT.

THANK YOU.

[CALL MEETING TO ORDER]

OKAY.

I'D LIKE TO CALL, TO ORDER THIS MEETING OF THE ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION.

IT IS SEPTEMBER 12TH, 2022 AT 5 36 IN THE AUSTIN ENERGY HEADQUARTERS.

JUDY BATH CONFERENCE ROOM ATTENDING FOR THE RECORD.

WE HAVE COMMISSIONERS HADN'T TOTAL BOWEN REED, CHAPMAN HOPKINS, VIRTUAL AND COMMISSIONER YANKER VIRTUALLY.

OH, EXCUSE ME.

AND COMMISSIONER TREL.

YEAH, JUST ALONE OVER THERE.

WE'RE HEAVILY WAITED TO THE RIGHT UM, SO I'D LIKE TO, WELL, NO COMMENT, NO COMMENT THERE.

UH, SO, UH,

[PUBLIC COMMUNICATION: GENERAL]

WE WE'LL START WITH PUBLIC COMMUNICATION.

THIS IS NOT, UH, THE INVITATION FOR THE RATE REVIEW PROCEEDING, UH, PRESENTATION.

SO THIS IS GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENT, AND I BELIEVE WE HAVE FIVE SPEAKERS SIGNED UP.

IS THAT CORRECT? UH, NO.

I HAVE ONE SPEAKER SIGNED UP.

OH, EXCUSE ME.

OKAY.

ONE SPEAKER.

I HAVE BO DEL THANK YOU.

AND YOU'LL HAVE THREE MINUTES.

CAN YOU HEAR ME? HELLO.

MY NAME IS BO DEL.

I'M THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF FAIR SHOT, TEXAS ACTION FUND, TEXAS CLIMATE JOBS ACTION FUND.

WE ARE COALITION OF LABOR UNIONS ACROSS THE STATE, INCLUDING MANY HERE IN CENTRAL TEXAS.

AND I'M HERE TODAY TO DISCUSS AUSTIN ENERGY.

THERE HAVE BEEN 13 RENEWABLE POWER PURCHASE AGREEMENTS SINCE 2007 HERE IN THE CITY.

AND IN LAST YEAR'S BUDGET, AUSTIN ENERGY REPORTED 439 MILLION IN FUEL REVENUE DUE IN PART TO AN INCREASE IN RENEWABLE ENERGY GENERATION PARTIES TO THESE AGREEMENTS INCLUDE SOME OF THE LARGEST CORPORATIONS ON EARTH, DUKE ENERGY, SOUTHERN COMPANY, BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY, AND CONSOLIDATED EDISON.

SO EARLIER THIS YEAR, WE ASKED THE UTILITY TO DISCLOSE THESE POWER PURCHASE AGREEMENTS, WHICH AFTER ALL ARE EXECUTED BY OUR PUBLICLY OWNED UTILITY AUSTIN ENERGY DECLINED SIDING MARKET COMPETITIVENESS AND PROPRIETARY INTEREST TO THIS DAY, THE DETAILED FINANCIAL TERMS OF THESE AGREEMENTS REMAIN COMPLETELY SHIELDED FROM PUBLIC SCRUTINY.

SO PART OF OUR MESSAGE TODAY IS QUITE SIMPLE.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH WITH THE SECRECY.

ONE THING AUSTIN ENERGY DID DISCLOSE TO US, HOWEVER, IS THAT THEY DO NOT REQUIRE A SINGLE WAGE OR SAFETY STANDARD FOR WORKERS ON THESE POWER PURCHASE AGREEMENTS.

WHEN WE TRIED TO FIX IT, AUSTIN ENERGY FOUGHT US EVERY SINGLE STEP OF THE WAY IN A STATE WHERE THE CONSTRUCTION WORKFORCE IS 50% MONOLINGUAL, SPANISH SPEAKING, AND IN A STATE WHERE A CONSTRUCTION WORKER DIES ON THE JOB DUE TO UNSAFE WORKING CONDITIONS.

ONCE EVERY THREE DAYS SINCE WHEN DID WE DECIDE AS A COMMUNITY THAT SECRECY AND DISDAIN FOR WORKING PEOPLE WERE VALUES.

WE WANTED OUR PUBLICLY OWNED UTILITY TO UPHOLD, BUT IT ISN'T JUST THE POWER PURCHASE AGREEMENTS UNDER AUSTIN ENERGY'S FAILED LEADERSHIP.

OUR UTILITY WAS NEARLY PRIVATIZED DURING THE 2019 LEGISLATIVE SESSION UNDER AUSTIN ENERGY'S FAILED LEADERSHIP, FITCH DOWNGRADED OUR UTILITIES BOND DEBT IN JUNE, UNDER AUSTIN UTILITIES FAILED LEADERSHIP S AND P DOWNGRADED OUR UTILITIES BOND DEBT IN AUGUST.

NOW AUSTIN ENERGY WANTS TO RAISE OUR UTILITY RATES BY AN AVERAGE OF $187 A YEAR BECAUSE EVIDENTLY CORPORATIONS ARE PAYING TOO MUCH.

DOESN'T AUSTIN ENERGY LEADERSHIP FEEL EVEN JUST A LITTLE ICKY BY FORCING WORKING PEOPLE TO SHOULDER THE BURDENS OF ITS MINI FAILURES, CONSTRUCTION WORKERS, AND HOTEL HOUSEKEEPERS

[00:05:01]

AND BARTENDERS AND BUS DRIVERS AND TEACHERS STRUGGLING TO MAKE ENDS MEET.

THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT AUSTIN ENERGY THINKS SHOULD PAY THE PRICE.

WELL, AUSTIN ENERGY MIGHT HAVE MORE POWER THAN THE WORKING PEOPLE THAT IT IS SUPPOSED TO SERVE, BUT WE'RE STANDING UP AND WE'RE FIGHTING BACK.

THAT'S BEEN UNION MEMBERS AND COMMUNITY GROUPS ARE COMING TOGETHER TO DECLARE DAY OF ACTION LATER THIS MONTH.

AND YOU'RE ALL INVITED.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

THANK YOU, SIR.

[1. Approve the minutes of the Electric Utility Commission Regular meeting on August 8, 2022.]

NEXT WE'LL MOVE ON TO APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM THE REGULARLY SCHEDULED AUGUST 8TH, 2022 MEETING THE MINUTES WERE CIRCULATED WITH THE MATERIALS IN PREPARATION FOR THIS MEETING.

ANY COMMENTS QUEST, UH, QUESTION, UH, THE RECOMMENDATION THAT WAS, THAT WAS MADE, UH, FROM THE WORK GROUP AND THAT WAS ADOPTED, HAS THAT BEEN CIRCULATED TO CITY TO CITY COUNCIL? YES, THAT WAS PERFECT.

I MOVE ADOPTION.

THANK YOU.

IS THERE A SECOND, SECOND? OKAY.

THANK YOU.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR.

BYE.

BYE.

BYE.

I HEARD YOU COMMISSIONER YONKERS.

THAT'S GREAT.

SO YEAH, I JUST GOT AUDIO LIKE A MINUTE AGO.

PERFECT.

OKAY, GREAT.

SO, UH, APPROVAL OF THE AUGUST MINUTES PASSES UNANIMOUSLY MOVING ON TO DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON RECOMMENDATIONS.

ARE THERE ANY ITEMS IN TWO THROUGH 10 THAT COMMISSIONERS WOULD LIKE TO TAKE UP FOR DISCUSSION CHRISTIAN REID? UM, I WOULD LIKE TO ASK SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT SIX, THE RESILIENCY AS A SERVICE PILOT PROGRAM.

AND I ALSO HAD A QUESTION ON THE SAND HILL ITEM NUMBER EIGHT AND CHAIRMAN HAWKINS.

I HAVE A QUESTION, UM, ON NUMBER FOUR, GOT IT.

ANY OTHERS? OKAY.

[Items 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, &10]

HEARING NONE.

I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO APPROVE FOR RECOMMENDATION ITEMS. NUMBER ITEM NUMBERS, 2 3, 5, 7, 9, AND 10.

SETTLE MOVE.

THANK YOU.

IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? AYE.

AYE.

AYE.

THANK YOU.

AND COMMISSIONER YANKER AYE.

GREAT.

UH, THOSE ITEMS PASS UNANIMOUSLY, UH, ON FOR RECOMMENDATIONS.

[4. Recommend authorizing negotiation and execution of a multi-term contract with Altec Inc. to provide customized utility vehicles, for up to 10 years for a total contract amount not to exceed $65,520,903.]

WE'LL TAKE UP ITEM NUMBER FOUR.

GOOD EVENING.

COMMISSIONERS, ROBIN CAPELLO, DIRECTOR OF CORPORATE SUPPORT SERVICES HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY.

YES.

THANK YOU.

UM, THIS IS A, UH, CONTRACT WITH ALL TECH TO PROVIDE CUSTOMIZED UTILITY VEHICLES, UM, FOR UP TO 10 YEARS.

AND MY QUESTION IS SIMPLY, ARE ANY OF THESE GOING TO BE ELECTRIC VEHICLES AT THIS POINT? NO, THEY ARE NOT OFFERING FULL ELECTRIC VEHICLES AS A PART OF THE LEASES.

WE ARE EXPLORING, CONTINUING TO EXPLORE WITH ALLTECH, ANY ELECTRIC VEHICLE OPPORTUNITIES.

THEY'RE CURRENTLY EXPLORING THE HYBRID, UM, VEHICLES, BUT AT THIS POINT WE DO NOT HAVE FULL ELECTRIC VEHICLE OPTIONS AVAILABLE TO US.

AND DOES THE, DID THE RFP OR THE REQUEST FOR THE CONTRACT INDICATE A DESIRE TO HAVE ELECTRIC VEHICLES? YES.

YES.

THAT IS A PART OF OUR, OUR STANDARD IS WE'RE REQUESTING CONTINUOUSLY EVOLVING, UH, OUR EQUIPMENT TO ELECTRIC VEHICLES.

AND DID ANY, ARE, IS THERE ANY OTHER, UM, UH, PROVIDER THAT MIGHT HAVE ELECTRIC VEHICLES THAT WOULD SATISFY THIS, UH, AUSTIN ENERGY'S NEED, WE'RE NOT AWARE OF ANY, UH, OTHER MANUFACTURERS THAT WOULD PROVIDE A FULL, UH, FULLY ELECTRIC, UH, VEHICLE OF THAT MODEL TYPE.

THANK YOU.

FURTHER QUESTION.

GO AHEAD.

COULD YOU ELABORATE A LITTLE BIT FURTHER ON WHAT IS NOT AVAILABLE GIVEN THE VEHICLE TYPE THAT WE ARE, UM, LEASING, UH, THOSE VEHICLES ARE HEAVY DUTY EQUIPMENT THEY'RE BUCKET TRUCKS, AND THEY ARE LIMITED INTO WHAT TYPE OF OFFERING THEY HAVE AVAILABLE FOR THOSE TYPES OF VEHICLES.

UH, THEY'RE EXPLORING THE HYBRID MODEL.

UM, THERE ARE SOME THAT ARE AVAILABLE IN THAT, IN THAT TYPE.

UH, THE, AS WE MOVE INTO ELECTRIC VEHICLES TOO, AS I UNDERSTAND IN THE INDUSTRY AT THIS POINT, THEY'RE STILL COST PROHIBITIVE, UM, TO HAVE THOSE AS A PART OF A FLEET.

UM, BUT THEY'RE ON THE VERY EARLY STAGES OF, UH, INTRODUCING THOSE.

AND WE HAVE NOT BEEN OFFERED THOSE AS AN OPTION AT THIS POINT.

WELL, I JUST WANNA COMMENT

[00:10:01]

THAT, UM, IT'S BEEN AT LEAST TWO YEARS, UH, AGO, AT LEAST THAT, UM, AT THE EARTH X EXHIBIT IN DALLAS FOR EARTH DAY, THEY HAD SOME BUCKET TRUCKS ON DISPLAY THAT WERE ALL ELECTRIC.

SO I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY ARE IN THE MARKET, BUT CERTAINLY SOMEBODY'S MAKING THEM, UM, ABSOLUTELY.

AND WE'RE CONTINUOUSLY EVALUATING THAT.

YEAH.

SO AS OUR, OUR LEASE CONTINUES TO EVOLVE WITH YOUR RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL, WE WILL ALWAYS EXPLORE THAT AS WE'RE, UH, BRINGING NEW VEHICLES INTO OUR FLEET.

UH, IT WOULD BE REALLY GREAT IF YOU WOULD.

I UNDERSTAND MAINTENANCE COSTS CAN BE CONSIDERABLY LESS, EVEN IF YOU HAVE A HIGHER UPFRONT COST.

SO I THINK IT WOULD BE ADVANTAGEOUS.

YES MA'AM.

SO WHEN YOU SAY HYBRIDS, DO YOU MEAN PLUG-IN HYBRIDS OR JUST HYBRIDS? JUST HYBRIDS.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? OH, GO AHEAD.

COMMISSIONER RE UM, SO IS ALTECH, ARE THEY THE MANUFACTURER OR THEY'RE JUST THE COMPANY THAT YOU'RE CONTRACTING WITH TO FIND THE VEHICLES.

THEY ARE THE MANUFACTURER, THEY ARE THE MANUFACTURER AND THEY DON'T MAKE ANY EVS AT THIS AT THIS POINT, AT THIS POINT.

NO.

ALL RIGHT.

ANYTHING ELSE? I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO APPROVE FOR RECOMMENDATION ITEM NUMBER FOUR.

I'LL ALSO MOVE.

IS THERE A SECOND? THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER.

OTU ALL THOSE IN FAVOR.

BYE.

I I'M GONNA ABSTAIN.

I I'M GONNA ABSTAIN AS WELL.

OKAY, GREAT.

UH, SO I THINK THAT THE MOTION CARRIES.

THANK YOU WITH TWO ABSTENTIONS.

THANK YOU.

[6. Recommend authorizing negotiation and execution of contracts with terms of up to 15 years for capacity and energy with certain Austin Energy customers with on-site backup generation as part of a Resiliency-as-a-Service (RaaS) pilot program, for an aggregate contracted capacity of up to 25 megawatts and estimated annual contracted amount of $3,375,000.]

NEXT WE'LL TAKE UP ITEM NUMBER SIX.

GOOD AFTERNOON COMMISSIONERS.

UH, MY NAME'S ERICA BACH, AND I'M HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS ON ITEM NUMBER SIX RA.

SO YOU, YOU, HOW, HOW ARE YOU ERICA? NICE TO SEE YOU.

NICE TO SEE YOU AS WELL.

UM, SO YOU GOT, YOU PRESENTED A COUPLE MONTHS BACK ON THIS SERVICE.

UM, AND SO THIS IS THE FIRST AND IN THAT, IN THAT PROPOSAL, YOU TALKED ABOUT UP TO, AND I MIGHT BE MAKING UP THE NUMBER 250 MEGAWATTS OF, OF POTENTIAL.

CORRECT.

AND SO THIS, THIS CONTRACT BEFORE US IS FOR JUST A CERTAIN NUMBER, IT'S UP TO 25 MEGAWATTS OF THE BEHIND THE METER FOR HOW MANY, HOW MANY INDIVIDUAL SITES IT'S JUST UP TO 25 MEGAWATTS.

SO IT CAN BE AS MANY UNTIL THAT THAT TRANCH IS FILLED.

OKAY.

AND THE, THE, THE LEGISLATION THAT WAS PASSED BY THE, BY THE LEGISLATURE, WHICH ESSENTIALLY REQUIRES THIS, UM, WAS LIMITED TO CERTAIN KINDS OF FACILITIES, I THINK, RELATED TO, UM, YOU KNOW, FOOD, FOOD SERVICE, ARE THESE INITIAL CONTRACTS LIMITED TO THAT? OR ARE THEY WIDER THAN THAT? WELL, WE'RE, THIS IS CUSTOMER DRIVEN.

SO WE ARE LOOKING AT, AS OUR CUSTOMERS COME TO US, UM, TO MEET THIS NEED THAN WE WANNA BE ABLE TO MEET THOSE NEEDS.

SO WE ARE GOING TO OPEN THIS UP TO THE CUSTOMERS THAT NEED THIS TYPE OF RESILIENCY.

I, IF IT'S FOUND TO BE IN YOUR INTERESTS, UM, WELL, AGAIN, LIKE I SAID, IT'S CUSTOMER DRIVEN.

SO, UM, THIS JUST ALLOWS, ALLOWS THEM TO BE ABLE TO ACCESS THAT RESILIENCY IN A MORE AFFORDABLE MANNER.

OKAY.

SO IF IT DOESN'T WORK FOR THE CUSTOMER, IT DOESN'T WORK FOR US.

OKAY.

AND UNDER YOUR, SORRY, LAST QUESTION, UH, UNDER YOUR PROGRAM, UM, THIS IS, THIS WOULD AT THE MOMENT, THIS WOULD BE GAS, BACKUP GAS GENERATION.

YEAH.

IT, IT, IF THAT'S WHAT THE CUSTOMER WANTS, THEN THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING TO PROVIDE THEM.

WE WOULD RATHER HAVE THEM DO NATURAL GAS THAN DIESEL MM-HMM .

UM, IF THERE'S ANY OTHER TECHNOLOGY THAT THEY'RE INTERESTED IN, THEN WE WILL BE SPEAKING TO THEM ABOUT IT.

BUT RIGHT NOW, NATURAL GAS IS WHAT WE HAVE BEEN SHOWN INTERESTED IN.

SO IF SOMEONE CAME TO YOU WITH A, A STORAGE PLUS SOLAR PROPOSAL, THEY COULD QUALIFY UNDER THIS PROGRAM OR THEY WOULD NEED TO BE, UH, FOSSIL FUEL.

IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE FOSSIL FUEL.

IT'S JUST WHATEVER THE VALUE PROPOSITION IS OF THAT TECHNOLOGY.

OKAY.

THANKS.

MM-HMM IS THERE A APPLICATION PROCESS BY WHICH A CUSTOMER WOULD A APPLY FOR THE, FOR THE PROGRAM, IF, IF THEY ARE INTERESTED IN PARTICIPATING, BUT THEY ARE NOT, LET'S SAY A GROCERY STORE.

UM, BUT THEY, THEY THEY'D LIKE TO TALK WITH YOU ABOUT, UH, PARTICIPATING IN THE PROGRAM.

IS THERE AN APPLICATION OR THEY JUST REACH OUT, I MEAN, YOU HAVE LIKE KEY CUSTOMER ACCOUNTS OR WHAT, WHAT'S THE, YES.

SO WE'RE WORKING, UH, VERY CLOSELY WITH OUR KEY ACCOUNT, UH, REPRESENTATIVES, AS WELL AS, YOU KNOW, UH,

[00:15:01]

ALL OF OUR, UH, CU, UH, CUSTOMER ENERGY SOLUTION, UM, UM, STAFF, UH, THAT REPRESENTS DIFFERENT SEGMENTS OF OUR CUSTOMER BASE.

SO THEN THEY CAN BE AWARE OF, UH, THE PROGRAM, UM, WHAT'S, UH, WHAT IS THERE, YOU KNOW, FOR THEM TO BE OFFERED TO THEM.

UM, AND SO WE'RE GOING THROUGH THAT EDUCATION PROCESS RIGHT NOW TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE READY TO BE ABLE TO COMMUNICATE THAT WE'VE, UH, RECEIVED A LOT OF INTEREST FROM CUSTOMERS ALREADY.

AND, UH, WE DO ALREADY HAVE KEY ACCOUNT, UH, SPECIALISTS THAT HAVE BEEN SPEAKING TO OUR CUSTOMERS, BUT IF ANYBODY IS INTERESTED AND HASN'T SPOKEN TO ANY OF OUR, OF THEIR CUSTOMER REPS, WE JUST ENCOURAGE THEM TO REACH OUT TO AUSTIN ENERGY SO THAT WE CAN INFORM THEM.

SORRY, A FINAL QUESTION.

UM, YOU SAY THERE'S NO FISCAL IMPACT.

AND THEN I SEE AN ESTIMATE ANNUAL CONTRACT AMOUNT OF THREE POINT.

SO, SO THAT'S THE AMOUNT THEY WOULD PAY.

YOU GUYS, THIS NO RATE PAYERS ARE PAYING FOR THIS.

CORRECT.

SO, UH, IT'S COST NEUTRAL BECAUSE THE AMOUNT THAT WE ARE PAYING TO HAVE ACCESS THE RIGHTS TO DISPATCH THAT ASSET IN THE MARKET IS THE VALUE THAT WE SHOULD BE RECEIVING OVER THE CONTRACT TERM.

SO THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT COST NEUTRAL.

OKAY.

SO NO RESIDENTIAL RATE PAYERS SHOULD, SHOULD SEE ANY KIND OF INCREASE BECAUSE OF THESE CONTRACTS.

IT SHOULD BE A SAVINGS OVERALL.

IT, AGAIN, IT SHOULD BE COST NEUTRAL COST NEUTRAL WE'RE WE'RE RIGHT.

WE'RE PURCHASING PROTECTION AND, UM, WE'RE PURCHASING PROTECTION FOR THE CUSTOMER'S PORTFOLIO.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? ALL RIGHT.

I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO APPROVE FOR RECOMMENDATION ITEM NUMBER SIX.

SO MOVE.

THANK YOU.

IS THERE SECOND? THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER BOWEN.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR.

AYE.

THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT.

AND ITEM NUMBER SIX, PASSES UNANIMOUSLY.

[8. Recommend authorizing negotiation and execution of a contract with GE Energy Control Solutions Inc for the purchase and installation of a control system for Sand Hill Energy Center in an amount not to exceed $2,600,000.]

NEXT UP WE HAVE ITEM NUMBER EIGHT EVENING COMMISSIONERS.

MY NAME'S PAT SWEENEY.

I'M VICE PRESIDENT FOR POWER PRODUCTION.

I'LL TAKE THE QUESTION ON ITEM NUMBER EIGHT.

HEY, UH, GOOD EVENING, PAT.

HOW ARE YOU? GOOD, GOOD.

SO, UM, WE'VE GOT THE SANDHILL ENERGY CENTER.

IT'S GOT SOME OLD EQUIPMENT.

WE NEED TO REPLACE IT TO MAKE IT WORK CORRECTLY, BUT TO KEEP WORKING CORRECTLY AS TO KEEP WORKING CORRECTLY.

UM, BUT NOTHING BY, BY MAKING THESE INVESTMENTS, UM, IT DOESN'T PREVENT US FROM IN THE FUTURE AS COSTS GO DOWN FOR STORAGE FROM, UM, RETIRING SANDHILL.

WHEN THAT POINT COMES, THIS IS JUST TO KEEP THE, THIS KEEPS THE EQUIPMENT WE HAVE, SO WE CAN GET THE MAXIMUM, RELIABLE VALUE OUT OF IT.

THIS WILL KEEP US SAFE AND RELIABLE AND EFFICIENT UP, UP TO THAT POINT IN TIME.

OKAY.

THANKS.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. SWEENEY? OKAY.

HEARING NONE.

I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO APPROVE ITEM NUMBER EIGHT FOR RECOMMENDATION TO COUNSEL.

SO MOVE.

THANK YOU.

IS THERE SECOND, SECOND.

THANK YOU.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR.

AYE.

I I'M GONNA ABSTAIN THIS ONE AND COMMISSIONER YER.

AYE.

OKAY.

GREAT MOTION CARRIES WITH ONE ABSTENTION.

OKAY.

THANK YOU FOR THAT.

VERY EFFICIENT DISCUSSION OF OUR, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS TO

[11. Presentations by Base Rate Review participants on their positions in the Base Rate Review Process.]

COUNCIL, MOVING ON TO DISCUSSION ITEMS. UH, WE'RE GONNA FIRST TAKE UP ITEM NUMBER 11, WHICH ARE PRESENTATIONS BY BASE RATE REVIEW PARTICIPANTS ON THEIR POSITIONS IN THE BA BASE RATE REVIEW PROCESS.

AND, UH, ROBIN SHOULD HAVE CER OR I ROBIN CIRCULATED A LINK TO THE, UM, IMPARTIAL HEARING EXAMINER'S FINAL RECOMMENDATION, WHICH WAS PUBLISHED ON SEPTEMBER 9TH.

I THINK IT'S ABOUT 155 PAGES, AND I HOPE THAT EVERYONE HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW IT THIS WEEKEND.

UH, AND, UM, AGAIN, JUST A REMINDER THAT WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA HEAR PRESENTATIONS TONIGHT AND, UH, HAVE, HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR SOME DISCUSSION.

AND THEN WE WILL ALSO HAVE POSTED IN OCTOBER, UM, A, AN ITEM FOR DISCUSSION AND ACTION ON THE RATE REVIEW PROCESS OR THE RATE, OUR RECOMMENDATION ON THE RATE REVIEW PROCESS TO COUNSEL.

SO WE'LL ACTUALLY BE VOTING ON THIS ITEM NEXT MONTH.

UH, SO AS FAR AS, UH, PROCEDURALLY, WHAT, WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO IS TAKE UP, UH, THE RATE BASE RATE REVIEW PARTICIPANTS IN THE ORDER THAT WAS INCLUDED ON THE INVITATION THAT WE FILED IN THE PROCEEDING.

AND THEN WE'VE OFFERED EACH, EACH PARTICIPANT FIVE MINUTES, AND I NEED TO CONFIRM THIS, BUT I THINK THE,

[00:20:01]

UH, THE ICA AND AUSTIN ENERGY A LITTLE BIT MORE TIME, I'LL, I'LL CONFIRM THAT JUST A SECOND.

WHEN I PULL MY COMPUTER UP, UH, UNLESS ROBIN, DO YOU HAVE THAT RIGHT? YES.

UH, AUSTIN ENERGY AND THE INDEPENDENT CONSUMER ADVOCATE WERE BOTH ALLOTTED 10 MINUTES.

OKAY, GREAT.

THANKS.

UM, SO WE'VE, WE'RE GONNA DO FIVE MINUTES FOR EVERYONE.

UM, AND THEN EXCEPT FOR THE IND, UH, THE ICA AND AUSTIN ENERGY, AND THEY'LL HAVE 10 MINUTES AND THEY ARE THE LAST TWO PRESENTERS.

AND I'D LIKE TO GIVE EACH PERSON THE OPPORTUNITY THE ENTIRE FIVE MINUTES OR 10 MINUTES, UH, OF THEIR TIME TO ACTUALLY MAKE THEIR PRESENTATION.

I THINK FOLKS CAME WITH A PRESENTATION IN MIND AND I'D LIKE TO AFFORD THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO ACTUALLY PRESENT ALL OF THAT MATERIAL TO US.

I KNOW NORMALLY WE, WE KIND OF TAKE QUESTIONS AS THEY COME, UH, WITH AUSTIN ENERGY STAFF, ESPECIALLY, BUT I'D LIKE TO GIVE EACH PRESENTER THE OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT THEIR ENTIRE, UH, PRESENTATION BEFORE WE ASK QUESTIONS.

SO PLEASE HOLD YOUR QUESTIONS UNTIL THE END OF EACH PRESENTATION.

AND THEN I'LL GIVE A, A BRIEF OPPORTUNITY FOR QUESTIONS AFTER EACH PRESENTATION.

ALL RIGHT.

I THINK WITH THAT, WE'RE READY TO START.

SO FIRST UP WE HAVE SOLAR AND STORAGE COALITION AND, AND JUST AS A, AS A NOTE, IF YOU WOULD PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND, UH, ROBIN WILL BE TIMING EACH PRESENTATION.

SO THERE'LL PROBABLY BE AN ALARM AT THE END OF FIVE MINUTES.

UH, IF, IF YOU USE THE ENTIRE TIME, THANK YOU.

YOU THIS ON.

YEAH.

HI, I'M ASHLEY FISHER AND I'M HERE REPRESENTING THE SOLAR AND STORAGE COALITION, WHICH IS MADE UP OF SOLAR AND STORAGE INSTALLERS, A REAL ESTATE DEVELOPER, INTERESTED IN MICROGRIDS AND INCLUDES SON NOVA SUNRUN AND TESLA, SSC MEMBER COMPANIES OPERATE, MAINTAIN AND INSTALL BATTERIES THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES IN THE WORLD, INCLUDING THE AUSTIN ENERGY AREA.

THESE COMPANIES SHARE THE GOAL TO EXPAND THE ABILITY TO USE STORAGE.

IN ADDITION TO SOLAR AND OFFER FLEXIBILITY FOR CUSTOMERS.

THIS BENEFITS AUSTIN ENERGY, AUSTIN RESIDENTS, AND THE FIGHT AGAINST CLIMATE CHANGE WHILE OUR PROPOSAL DOES NOT PROPOSE EXACT RATES FOR THIS SSC WOULD LIKE AUSTIN ENERGY TO COMMIT TO INCLUDING STORAGE IN THE ONGOING VALUE OF SOLAR DISCUSSIONS.

WE KNOW THAT AUSTIN RESIDENTS ARE INTERESTED IN RESILIENCE, ESPECIALLY AFTER WINTER STORM URI.

AND WE KNOW THAT AUSTIN RESIDENTS ARE EAGER TO ADOPT TECHNOLOGY THAT IS ENVIRONMENTAL AND RE RESILIENCE BENEFITS.

WE KNOW THAT BATTERY STORAGE CAN BE, CAN BENEFIT BOTH INDIVIDUAL AUSTIN, ENERGY CUSTOMERS AND AUSTIN ENERGY AS A WHOLE IN HOW THEY OPERATE WITHIN THE ICOT GRID.

THE TEXAS PUBLIC UTILITY, THE TEXAS PUBLIC UTILITY COMMISSION IS ACTIVELY WORKING ON THIS AND WE DON'T WANNA BE LEFT BEHIND.

THEREFORE IT WOULD MAKE SENSE FOR AUSTIN ENERGY TO PURSUE WAYS TO BETTER UTILIZE STORAGE IN THEIR SYSTEM.

SSC MADE SEVERAL REQUESTS DURING THE RIGHT CASE PROCEEDINGS.

THESE INCLUDED EXPANDING THE VALUE OF SOLAR TARIFF TO INCLUDE SOLAR PLUS STORAGE AND EXPANDING THE USE OF VALUE AND SOLAR FOR MICROGRIDS AND, AND MULTIFAMILY AUSTIN ENERGY CLAIMS THAT OUR REQUESTS WERE OUTSIDE THE SCOPE OF THE RATE CASE, EVEN THOUGH THE VALUE OF SOLAR TARIFF WAS BEING REASSESSED.

AS PART OF THIS PROCESS, WE THINK OUR REQUESTS ARE RELEVANT TO THE VALUE OF SOLAR TARIFF.

THE I E REPORT STATED IN THEIR RECOMMENDATION THAT AE DID NOT CLEARLY DEFINE WHICH, UH, WHAT COMPRISES ITEMS THAT CAN BE EVALUATED, EVALUATED RELATED TO HIS VALUE OF SOLAR.

DURING THIS PROCESS, THEY MADE TWO RECOMMENDATIONS IN THEIR REPORT THAT WAS ISSUED ON FRIDAY.

THEY SAID AE SHOULD EVALUATE OPPORTUNITIES FOR ADDITIONAL PUBLIC AND STAKEHOLDER INPUT IN VALUE OF SOLAR RECOMMENDATIONS.

AND THEN AE SHOULD MORE CLEARLY DEFINE WHAT COMPRISES THE RATES AND METHODOLOGY INPUTS THAT MUST BE ASSESSED CONSISTENT WITH VALUE OF SOLAR TARIFF.

ALSO, WE THINK THAT ADVANCING STORAGE AND AUSTIN ENERGY IS SOMETHING THAT THE EU SEE IN THE COUNCIL CARES ABOUT.

AND AUSTIN ENERGY'S CLOSING BRIEF.

THEY ADDED AN FOOTNOTE THAT AT THEIR APPROPRIATE TIME AE COMMITS TO INCLUDING SSC AS STAKEHOLDERS IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF PROGRAMS THAT THAT WAS MENTIONED IN OUR BRIEF.

SO WE'RE ASKING FOR EUC AND THE COUNCIL TO ASK AUSTIN ENERGY, TO COMMIT, TO EXPLORING WAYS THAT THEY CAN INCORPORATE STORAGE INTO AUSTIN ENERGY RATES.

AND TO LET US HELP, UM, TO DETAIL SOME OF THE POSITIONS THAT WE LISTED IN OUR POSITION STATEMENT AND OUR CLOSING BRIEFS.

WE ASKED TO EXPAND VALUE OF SOLAR TO INCLUDE SOLAR PLUS STORAGE.

RIGHT NOW WE'RE NOT PROPOSING SPECIFIC RATE STRUCTURES, BUT INSTEAD WE POINTED TO EXAMPLES IN OTHER PLACES, THERE'S A VARIETY OF RATE STRUCTURES THAT COULD BE USED.

UM, SOME BASED ON TIME OF USE SOME BASED ON OTHER FACTORS, WE'RE ASKING AUSTIN ENERGY TO COMMIT TO A PROCESS THAT CREATES RATES FOR SOLAR AND STORAGE.

WE'RE ALSO ASKING TO EXPAND THE USE OF VALUE IN STORAGE, UH, UH, VALUE OF SOLAR FOR MICROGRIDS AND MULTIFAMILY.

WE'D LIKE TO BE ABLE, UM, FOR MICROGRIDS TO SHARE PAYMENTS FOR EXCESS SOLAR ACROSS DIFFERENT, UH, INVOICES LIKE

[00:25:01]

OUR PREVIOUS SUGGESTION, NOT PROPOSING SPECIFIC RATES, BUT FOR AUSTIN ENERGY TO COMMIT TO A PROCESS TO ALLOW THIS REGARDING THE REBATES THAT WERE PROPOSED IN THE AUSTIN ENERGY PROPOSAL.

WE HAVE A COUPLE OF COMMENTS ON THOSE ONE IS WE PROPOSE INCLUDING A REBATE FOR LOW INCOME CUSTOMERS AS AE DESIGNS, THEIR NEW REBATE PROGRAMS, AE SHOULD CONSIDER GENEROUS REBATE PROGRAMS DESIGNED SPECIFICALLY FOR LOWER INCOME CUSTOMERS.

WE'RE ALSO ASKING FOR A STORAGE REBATE.

WE'D LIKE AUSTIN ENERGY TO COMMIT, TO DEVELOPING A REBATE PROGRAM FOR BATTERY SYSTEMS AND MANY MARKETS.

AN INCREASING PERCENTAGE OF SOLAR CUSTOMERS ARE INSTALLING SOLAR PLUS STORAGE AND AUSTIN ENERGY SHOULD PROVIDE A PATHWAY TO MAKE THIS MORE ACCESSIBLE FOR CUSTOMERS.

IN ADDITION, WE'RE ASKING TO ALLOW SOLAR LEASING PROGRAMS, AUSTIN ENERGY SHOULD EXPLICITLY ALLOW THIS AND STATED CLEARLY WE'RE ASKING FOR PREDICTABLE TIMELINES FOR SOLAR PERMIT PROCESSING, AND WE'RE ASKING FOR BILLING SYSTEM UPDATES FOR AUSTIN ENERGY TO CONSIDER AN RFP FOR A NEW BILLING SYSTEM.

AUSTIN ENERGY SHOULD ENSURE THAT THEIR BILLING SYSTEM IS NIMBLE ENOUGH TO ACCOMMODATE NEW RATES AND PROGRAMS AND STRUCTURES THAT SOME OF THESE, UH, SOLAR PLUS STORAGE COULD, COULD BE IN THE FUTURE.

WE BELIEVE THAT WOULD RESULT IN BETTER CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE IN ADDITION TO SUPPORTING SOLAR AND STORAGE SYSTEMS. SO IN CONCLUSION, AGAIN, WE'RE ASKING FOR THE, UM, UC OR, AND COUNCIL TO ASK AUSTIN ENERGY TO COMMIT, TO EXPLORING WAYS THEY CAN INCORPORATE STORAGE INTO, UH, AUSTIN ENERGY RATES.

THANK YOU, MS. FISHER, ANY QUESTIONS? YEAH, I HAVE A QUESTION.

GO AHEAD.

THANKS, ASHLEY.

THAT WAS VERY GOOD.

I I'M, I'M NOT SURE.

I MAY HAVE JUST MISUNDERSTOOD WHAT YOU WERE SAYING, BUT CAN YOU TELL ME AGAIN WHAT THE, THE POINT WAS ON, ON THE ABILITY TO SHARE FOR CUSTOMERS TO SHARE ACROSS, UH, ACROSS THE PLATFORM OR, RIGHT.

SO, UH, IF YOU HAVE A FULL DEVELOPMENT, UM, THAT HAS SORT OF SOLAR AND STORAGE, UM, SHARED ACROSS A VARIETY OF, OF HOUSES, HOUSING UNITS, WE'D WANT TO BE ABLE TO SORT OF TREAT THAT THE SAME WAY THAT YOU MIGHT TREAT, UM, AN INDIVIDUAL PROPERTY THAT HAS SOLAR SOLAR ON IT SO THAT IT CAN, THE, THE SAVINGS CAN BE DISTRIBUTED AMONGST THE WHOLE COMMUNITY.

SO ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT LIKE A MICROGRID THAT THAT'S RIGHT.

UM, AND, AND IS THIS WHERE EACH HOUSE HAS ITS SOLAR AND STORAGE AND THEN IT'S ALL CONNECTED AND EACH, YES, IT COULD BE EACH INDIVIDUAL HOUSE OR IT COULD BE SOLAR IN A PUBLIC AREA.

YEAH.

THAT IS SHARED AMONGST THE HOUSES.

ALL RIGHT.

SO YOU SORT OF HAD, HAD TO TREAT THAT WHEN IT'S SORT OF SHARED AMONGST ALL THE HOUSES.

OKAY.

THANKS.

MM-HMM, , YOU'VE MENTIONED, UH, UH, A POSSIBLE REBATE FOR LOW INCOME CUSTOMERS.

MM-HMM AND ALL OF WHICH MY EXPERIENCE IS THE VAST NUMBER OF LOW INCOME CUSTOMERS ARE RENTERS, UH, AS OPPOSED TO HOMEOWNERS, BUT THERE'S SOME, UH, HOW, HOW WOULD THAT PROGRAM BE DESIGNED AND WHO WOULD, HOW WOULD BASICALLY, HOW WOULD IT WORK? MM-HMM UM, WE DON'T GO INTO SPECIFICS ON DESIGNING A LOW, UH, INCOME REBATE PROGRAM IN THE AUSTIN ENERGY PROPOSAL.

THEY SORT OF LAY OUT THAT THEY'RE, UH, LOOKING AT REBATES ACROSS THE BOARD, SORT OF LOOKING AT HOW THEY'RE CHANGING ALL SORTS OF REBATE PROGRAMS. AND WE'RE JUST SUGGESTING THAT IN THAT PROCESS, UM, WE CONSIDER EXPANDING ACCESS TO THOSE REBATES.

UM, BUT WE DON'T GO INTO THE DETAILS OF EXACTLY HOW THAT WOULD WORK.

CAN YOU SUMMARIZE OR DESCRIBE WHAT YOU MIGHT BE ALSO LOOKING FOR IN TERMS OF VEHICLE TO HOME AND VEHICLE, TO GRID, TO UTILIZE ELECTRIC VEHICLE BATTERIES AS PART OF THIS? UM, YES.

SO AGAIN, WE DON'T GO INTO THE SPECIFICS OF RATE DESIGN BECAUSE THERE'S A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT EXAMPLES OUT THERE.

UM, BUT THERE ARE A VARIETY OF WAYS THAT OTHER COMMUNITIES, UM, IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS WOULD, WOULD PAY CUSTOMERS EITHER TO DISCHARGE THEIR BATTERY AT THAT POINT, BECAUSE IT BENEFITS THE UTILITY AT THAT POINT IN TIME, OR TO PULL FROM THEIR BATTERIES THEMSELVES SO THAT THEY'RE NOT, UH, SO THAT THEY'RE REDUCING DEMAND DURING THAT TIME.

AND SO THERE'S A VARIETY OF PROGRAMS OTHER COMMUNITIES HAVE, UH, DEVELOPED TO FOR THAT KIND OF PRICING.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MS. FISHER? ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

THANK YOU.

[Additional Items]

NEXT.

WE HAVE TWO W R GOOD EVENING.

MY NAME IS TTA COOPER, AND I'M HERE ON BEHALF OF

[00:30:01]

TWO R, WHICH STANDS FOR TWO WOMEN RATE PAYERS.

THAT NAME SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.

ONE RESIDES WITHIN THE CITY OF AUSTIN AND ONE RESIDES WITHOUT, AND AS A LAWYER, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD SPEND THREE HOURS AND MAYBE NOT EVEN GET TO THE POINT THEN.

SO I HAVE PUT AS A PRECAUTION FOR ME EXCEEDING MY FIVE MINUTES BEFORE I EVEN COVER MY FIRST ISSUE.

OTHER EXHIBITS, UH, THAT I'VE ALREADY PROVIDED YOU ONE DEALING WITH THE THREE 11 CALL SERVICE.

UH, WE ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT IS A SHARED COST SERVICE.

SO WE'VE ATTACHED A KIND OF MEMO AND IT'S ENTITLED THREE, ONE ELEVEN CALL CENTER.

AND THEN THE LAST ONE IS ONE THAT THE HEARING EXAMINER IT, UH, HE MISSED IT.

AND THAT IS AUSTIN.

ENERGY IS PROPOSING TO REALLOCATE THE COSTS OF THE 20% DISCOUNT TO THE STATE MILITARY AND INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICTS, UH, ACROSS ALL THE CUSTOMER CLASSES.

BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS THEY'RE ASKING RESIDENTIAL RATE PAYERS TO PICK UP 54% OF THAT, WHICH IS ATROCIOUS.

IT'S UNFAIR, IT'S INEQUITABLE, AND IT'S CERTAINLY NOT COST BASED BECAUSE WE ARE NOT COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS.

AND EVERY ONE OF THOSE CUSTOMERS THAT GET THE DISCOUNT ARE IN THE COMMERCIAL CLASS.

WE RECOMMEND THAT THE ALLOCATION BE SET LIKE THE CAP CUSTOMER, WHICH IS ON A PER KILOWATT HOUR BASIS.

NOW I WILL SAY THERE'S A CAVEAT.

JUST READ MY BRIEF, CUZ I ALSO INCLUDED MY POST HEARING BRIEF FOR YOU ALL.

SO I WANNA RETURN TO THE SUBJECT THAT I REALLY WANTED TO COME HERE AND TALK TO Y'ALL ABOUT, AND THAT IS, UH, THE PRESUMPTION AND THE ARGUMENT AND THE ONE THAT AUSTIN, THAT THE HEARING EXAMINER, UH, HAS ADOPTED IS THAT THE CO THAT, UH, THE CURRENT RESIDENTIAL RATE DESIGN IS CREATING FINANCIAL HAV HAVOC TO THE UTILITY.

THEY'RE STARVING TO DEATH.

DOGS AND CATS ARE RAINING FROM HEAVEN, BUT WHAT I'M HERE TODAY TO TELL YOU THAT IT JUST AIN'T TRUE.

SO WHAT I'VE GIVEN YOU IS AN EXHIBIT AND Y'ALL SHOULD SEE IT.

AND THE FIRST FEW PAGES SHOULD LOOK VERY FAMILIAR BECAUSE THEY'RE AN EXHIBIT THAT YOU'VE ALREADY BEEN GIVEN BY THE EUC WAY BACK IN MARCH OF THIS YEAR, WHEN THEY TOLD YOU THAT THEY NEEDED TO COMPLETELY RADICALLY CHANGE THE RESIDENTIAL RATE DESIGN.

AND WHAT I HAVE GOT IS CERTAIN PORTIONS OF THAT EXHIBIT THAT TRY TO SHOW THAT ON THE ONE THAT'S ENTITLED EUC TWO, IF YOU SEE THAT WHAT THEY HAVE ON THE LEFT IS THE SHOW IS TO SHOW HOW THE REVENUES MICROPHONE I NEED.

I'M SORRY.

I'M SORRY.

I LIKE TO GET CLOSER.

I APOLOGIZE.

UH, SO WHAT THE ONE ON THE LEFT SHOWS THE BARS SHOW THE REVENUES AND THE LINE SHOWS THE COST.

AND WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SHOW YOU IS MY GOD.

IF WE KEEP ON GOING THIS WAY, WE'RE GONNA STARVE TO DEATH.

BUT IF YOU ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE GRAPH, WHAT YOU SEE IS THAT EVERYTHING IS BELOW COST.

THE REVENUES ARE BELOW COST.

THE BASE REVENUES ARE BELOW COST AND DON'T FORGET COST FOR US.

AND ENERGY INCLUDES THEIR PROFIT, THE GENERAL FUND TRANSFER.

THEY CALL IT AN EXPENSE.

SO WE'VE ALREADY GOT THE PROFIT INCLUDED IN THE OPERATING COSTS.

SO WHAT WE'RE REALLY LOOKING AT IS THE ONES WHERE IT'S SUPPOSEDLY BELOW COST IS FISCAL YEAR 2020 AND FISCAL YEAR 2021.

SO LET'S MOVE.

AND WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENED IN 2020 AND 2021.

WE WERE ALL AT HOME OR CLAD IN LIKE THREE OR FOUR MASKS, UH, NOT GOING TO BARS, NOT GOING TO RESTAURANTS.

UH, SO WE KNOW THAT THERE WAS SOME PROBLEMS WITH, UH, WITH BUSINESS.

THE NEXT PAGE GIVES YOU KIND OF THE, AND THIS IS THE SAME EXHIBIT THAT Y'ALL HAD, UH, SHOWS HOW IT BUILDS ITS CASH BALANCE.

AND SO THEY GIVE YOU THESE NUMBERS AND TRYING TO TELL YOU, UH, I JUST WANTED TO GIVE YOU THIS FOR COMPLETE, UH, TRANSPARENCY HERE.

I WANTED YOU TO NOTICE THAT THE DEPRECIATION CONTRIBUTIONS ARE NOT THE DEPRECIATION EXPENSES THEY PUT IN THE, THE RATE CASE.

AND, UH, I'LL GET TO THAT.

IT'S ACTUALLY TO RAISE A QUESTION Y'ALL MIGHT WANNA ASK AUSTIN ENERGY ABOUT, UH, THE NEXT PAGE IS BASICALLY THE SAME THING.

UH, BUT I, UH, BUT WE WILL BE TALKING ABOUT THE DEBT SERVICE COVERAGE RATIO, WHICH SHOWS THAT IN 2021, IT WAS 1.8 AND THE NEXT PAGE THEY HIGHLIGHT THAT, SEE, LOOK, WE HAVE A BAD DEBT SERVICE COVERAGE RATIO.

AND I THINK WHAT YOU'RE GONNA BE SEEING, UH, IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF PAGES IS THERE'S A REASON WHY THAT THERE'S THIS BAD DEBT SERVICE COVERAGE RATIO.

SO WE TURN TO THE VERY NEXT PAGE.

THIS IS IN THE RATE FILING PACKAGE, AND THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE EXPENSES THAT AUSTIN AND REVENUES THAT AUSTIN ENERGY HAS PUT IN THE RATE CASE.

THIS IS WHAT WE LITIGATED ON.

THIS IS THEIR EVIDENCE.

AND SO WHAT YOU'LL SEE, YOU'LL NOTICE

[00:35:01]

THE FAMILIAR, FAMILIAR GRAPH THAT THEY GAVE YOU AT THE EUC IT'S ON EUC DASH SIX.

AND THAT'S EXACTLY THE REPLICATION.

IF YOU WANTED TO COMPARE IT.

WELL, THERE YOU GO.

I THINK THAT THE EXHIBITS ARE, IF I JUST WANNA, I WISH YOU'D GIVEN ME A MINUTE.

UH, I JUST WANTED TO TELL YOU THE LAST TWO PAGES SHOW YOU PARTICULARLY IN 2021, THAT THOSE REVENUES THAT ARE NOT INCLUDED IN THE GRAPH CHART, CUZ THOSE REVENUE REVENUES WERE NOT ADJUSTED FOR THE PANDEMIC.

THEY WERE NOT ADJUSTED FOR THE WINTER'S STORM AND THEY WERE NOT ADJUSTED FOR THE WEATHER.

AND SO WHAT YOU'LL SEE IN THE, THE PAGES NINE AND EIGHT AND NINE ARE A SERIES OF THINGS WHERE THERE WERE ACTUAL EITHER GOVERNMENT IMPOSED BY THE CITY REDUCTIONS IN THE REVENUES THAT AUSTIN ENERGY WAS TO RECEIVE AS, AS WELL AS SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS.

AND I DON'T REALLY WANNA TAKE UP MORE OF Y'ALL'S TIME.

IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, I'D BE HAPPY TO, TO TRY TO ANSWER 'EM THANKS MS. COOPER, ANY QUESTIONS? GO AHEAD.

COMMISSIONER CHAPMAN, UH, COUPLE QUESTIONS, UH, ON THE CAP ON THE CAP PROGRAM.

UH, YES SIR.

WHAT IS YOUR, WHAT, WHAT IS YOUR POSITION ON THAT? WELL, THERE'S, UH, THERE'S JUST THE GENERAL POSITION THAT I SUPPORT CAP.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE ANY SPECIFIC CONCERNS THAT YOU WANNA SEE IF I MAINTAIN IT AS IT IS OR CHANGE IT.

WELL, UH, I'D LIKE TO MAINTAIN IT.

I KNOW THERE'S BEEN SOME CONCERN THAT PEOPLE WHO DON'T DESERVE CAP SHOULDN'T BE IN IT.

AND I THINK THAT WE SHOULD CONTINUE TO, TO WORK TOWARDS THAT.

BUT I THINK CAP IS A VERY IMPORTANT PROGRAM.

I THINK ONE OF THE CONCERNS WITH THIS RATE FILING IS THAT OF COURSE THEY'RE SAYING, WELL, OUR ANSWER IS TO INCREASE THE CAP RATES FOR THE $25 PROPOSED CUSTOMER CHARGE.

WELL, THAT MEANS YOU AND I ARE GONNA PICK UP SOME EXTRA MONEY.

NOW, TECHNICALLY IT'S NOT A BASE RATE, BUT IT IS OUR ELECTRIC BILL THAT'S INCREASING AGAIN.

AND THAT, AND THAT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THIS EX EXTERNAL RESOURCE SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED IN LOOKING AT THE REASONABLES CUZ THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.

ARE THESE RE RATES GONNA BE REASONABLE AND EQUITABLE.

THOSE ARE REGULATORY PRINCIPLES THAT WE FOLLOW AT THE PUC AND GENERALLY ACROSS THE UNITED STATES ISSUES OF EQUITY AND FAIRNESS.

AND, AND MY SECOND QUESTION IS, UH, AM I CORRECT? AND IF, IF, IF YOU DIDN'T FOLLOW TESTIMONY ON THIS, BUT I, I DID READ THROUGH MOST OF THE TESTIMONY, RIGHT.

UH, WHAT, UH, DID YOU ADDRESS THE TOWN LAKE CENTER IN YOUR TESTIMONY? I DID AT, AT THE ORIGINAL TOWN LAKE CENTER.

THE, THE PROBLEM IS, UH, I, I DO COULD SEE THAT IT'S NOT A KNOWN AND MEASURABLE AS, AS REQUIRED UNDER THE PUC, IN OTHER WORDS, BUT MAYBE BY THE TIME THE RATES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SET THAT THEY HAVE IN FACT MADE IT, UH, MADE THE CONTRACT AND MADE THE TERMS OF THE CONTRACT.

BUT RIGHT.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY GOT THE $35 MILLION.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S STILL AN ESTIMATE SUBJECT TO FURTHER NEGOTIATION.

I DON'T KNOW.

THANK YOU.

QUESTION READ.

HELLO.

UH, UM, I'VE BEEN, YOU'VE BEEN AT DOOR CAUGHT TOO.

I'VE BEEN INSTRUCTED TO BE, TO NOT BE SO CLOSE TO THE MICROPHONE.

UM, SO WINTER STORM, YURI REVENUES, HAVE YOU SKIMMED OR READ THE JUDGES? WHAT THE JUDGE SAID ABOUT THAT? WHAT THE HEARING EXAMINER SAID ABOUT THAT? CAUSE IT SEEMED TO ME LIKE HE WAS SAYING, WE NEED TO LOOK AT THAT MORE.

WELL, IF YOU LOOK AT PAGE NINE OF MY EXHIBIT IT, AND IT'S, IT'S ONE OF MANY THINGS AND WE DIDN'T, WE SHOULD NOT JUST LOOK WHEN WE'RE LOOKING TO SEE CUZ THE, THE GRAPH THAT THEY GAVE YOU WAS ON UNAUDITED REVENUES TO SHOW THE HUGE LOSSES.

AND THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE OUR RATE DESIGN.

SO IF YOU NOTICE IN THE, UH, ON PAGE EUC NINE, IT IS JUST ONE OF MANY THINGS, LOST REVENUE REVENUES THAT WERE LOST AND WOULD'VE BEEN COUNTED AND TO THEREFORE DECREASE THE COST AND SHOW THE ROBUSTNESS OF THE FISCAL YEAR 20, UH, 21, UH, REVENUES.

BUT WE WORKED, I'LL BE HONEST WITH YOU.

WE WERE VERY FRUSTRATED TRYING TO GET ANYTHING ON HURRICANE YOUR, I MEAN ON WINTER STORM, I KEEP CALLING IT HURRICANE.

I'VE BEEN DOING IT EVER SINCE THE RIGHT CASE.

I, I APOLOGIZE, UH, WINTER STORM UY, UH, AS WELL AS THE PANDEMIC BECAUSE WE KNEW THAT THE RATES WOULD BE AFFECTED.

YOU CAN'T TELL ME A BAR THAT'S CLOSED OR MAYBE EVEN GOES OUT OF BUSINESS.

DOESN'T

[00:40:01]

AFFECT AUSTIN ENERGY'S REVENUE.

SO WE, WE KNEW IN OUR HEARTS, BUT AUSTIN ENERGY FIRST RESPONSE WAS USUALLY, UM, WELL THAT'S, THAT'S NOT HOW WE SET OUR RATES.

WE DID NOT INCLUDE THIS KIND OF DATA.

ALL OF OUR RATES WERE, YOU KNOW, SO IT'S LIKE, DON'T LOOK, DON'T LOOK AT THIS OTHER DATA THAT WE'RE USING TO TRY TO TWIST AND TURN THE RATE REV THE RATE DESIGN, LOOK OVER HERE WHERE WE'RE ACTUALLY DOING THE TEST YEAR, BUT THERE'S TWO THINGS HERE.

ONE IS TO, WERE THE REVENUES REALLY ADEQUATE FOR CURRENT RATE DESIGN? THAT'S A VERY SERIOUS QUESTION BECAUSE THEY'RE ASKING FOR FUNDAMENTAL CHANGES.

THAT'S GONNA AFFECT LOW USERS AND LOW USERS ARE NOT.

I MEAN, I KNOW AUSTIN ENERGY KEEPS SAYING THEY'RE ALL RICH PEOPLE THAT LIVE DOWNTOWN IN THOSE CONDOS, BUT I GUARANTEE THEY'RE NOT, AND THEY'RE NOT ALL ABLE TO GET ON CAP.

THERE ARE SIGNIFICANT NUMBERS.

MR. ROBBINS DID A GREAT JOB.

AND WHEN HE COMES UP HERE, I'M SURE HE IS GONNA BE ABLE TO TELL YOU A LOT ABOUT THE DEMOGRAPHY.

UM, AND THE PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE THAT WILL BE SUBSTANTIALLY IMPACTED BY, UH, BY THE RATE INCREASES AUSTIN ENERGY IS RECOMMENDING.

SO IT'S A SERIOUS THING.

AND, AND IN CASE OF YURI, THEY DIDN'T EVEN GIVE US WHAT WE GOT.

ONE OF THE INTERVENERS HAPPENED TO FIND IT PLAYING, PLAYING, UH, NAME ROULETTE AT THE PUC WEBSITE AND HAPPENED TO FIND THIS FILING AND WHAT WE FOUND TO BE IRONIC, THE PERSON WHO SIGNED THE FILING WAS ONE OF THE CO-COUNSEL OF AUSTIN ENERGY IN THE RATE CASE.

SO IT WAS VERY FRUSTRATING AND YOU CAN SEE ME BEING SO DETAILED AND KIND OF INFLAMMATORY, AND I APOLOGIZE TO AUSTIN ENERGY, BUT IT WAS VERY FRUSTRATING.

SO WE AT LEAST GOT FOR THE ERCOT STUFF, 500 MILLION MINUTES OF, OF OUTAGE.

AND, BUT WE DON'T KNOW HOW THAT TRANSLATES INTO REVENUES OR TO COST.

THEY GAVE US SOME AND WE DID, AND I DID THE BEST TO LIMIT TO LOOK IT UP.

BUT IF YOU ACT FOR 2021, BECAUSE OF THEIR ACCELERATED DEPRECIATION, THAT MORE THAN MAKES UP FOR THEIR SO-CALLED DEFICIT IN 2021.

SO YEAH, IT REALLY, I WAS JUST TRYING TO GET AT THAT, THAT SEEMED TO ME LIKE THE JUDGE IN HIS RECOMMENDATION IDENTIFIED THAT AS ONE AREA TO LOOK AT FURTHER.

OH, I I'M SORRY.

I APOLOGIZE.

SO, BUT THAT, BUT, BUT THANK YOU FOR YOUR ANSWER.

YEAH.

WOULD YOU MIND COMMENTING ON YOUR POSITION ON THE CAC OR KAYAK POLICY CONTRIBUTION IN AN AID OF CONSTRUCTION? OH, UM, ONCE AGAIN, I WAS VERY FRUSTRATED.

LIKE THE FIRST TIME I ASKED A QUESTION ABOUT TRYING TO GET INFORMATION ON C A C, THEY GAVE ME BASICALLY THE CONTRACT MANUAL.

NOW I'M NOT A TECHNICAL PERSON, I'M A LAWYER.

WE LIKE TO THINK WE ARE, BUT IT, BUT IT SHOWED ALL DIFFERENT KINDS OF CATEGORIES OF EQUIPMENT, WHICH MADE NO SENSE.

AND BOTTOM LINE WHEN I KEPT LOOKING FOR DOLLARS, CUZ THAT'S WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR WAS WHAT PART OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE HAD A FEE ATTACHED TO IT AND THERE WAS NEXT TO NO MONEY IN THERE.

SO IT WASN'T A VERY RESPONSIVE ANSWER AND WE KEPT TRYING AND DON'T FORGET, WE HAD A VERY SHORTENED TIME TO ASK QUESTIONS AND GET ANSWERS.

IT'S NOT LIKE THE NORMAL RATE CASE.

UH, THEY WERE ALWAYS POLITE TO US.

I'M NOT TRYING TO DISREGARD, BUT I DO THINK THAT, AND I'M GLAD THAT YOU'ALL ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING A STUDY ON C IAC, UH, BECAUSE NO, NOBODY OUTSIDE, MAYBE, UH, PEOPLE WHO ARE HIGHLY SOPHISTICATED IN TECHNO THE TECHNOLOGY OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND THE ELECTRIC INFRASTRUCTURE COULD PROBABLY TELL YOU WHAT'S COVERED BY CIA C.

SO ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS, UH, I WOULD HOPE THAT Y'ALL WOULD LOOK AT IS TO SET OUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT'S CONNECTED WITH GROWTH AND IDENTIFY THE COMPONENT PARTS THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO HAVE CIA C APPLIED THAT TO ME.

SO WE NEED TO GO START WITH GROUND ZERO.

THE SECOND THING IS LIKE A TREE THAT NOW HAS TWO LIMBS.

SO THE FIRST LIMB WOULD BE TO, UH, COME UP WITH SOME SCENARIOS, SOME FACTUAL SCENARIOS, LIKE A DEVELOPMENT THAT'S X MILES AWAY FROM, FROM THE CITY OF AUSTIN, UH, A DOWNTOWN AREA.

AND I'LL, I'LL TALK ABOUT THE DOWNTOWN AREA IN A SECOND AND EMPTY.

LIKE I'VE GOT A LOT IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD.

THAT'S A NEW CUSTOMER AND HOW, HOW DO YOU FIGURE THOSE OUT? UH, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I FOUND OUT ACTUALLY READING AN AUSTIN ENERGY REPORT ON WINTER STORM IS THAT WE GOLD PLATE SOME OF OUR INFRASTRUCTURE IN OUR VERY DENSE DEVELOPMENT.

[00:45:01]

I CAN DOWNTOWN AUSTIN AND THIS, THIS AREA MAY BE INCLUDED AS PART OF IT.

MS. COOPER.

I THINK I, I APPRECIATE YOUR POINT AND I THINK THAT YOUR POSITION HAS COME ACROSS AND I DO WANNA KEEP IT BRIEF AND WE'VE GOT A LOT OF OTHER FOLKS OKAY.

THAT ARE, UM, SO IN OTHER WORDS, I WOULD, I GUESS WHAT I'M ASKING TO LOOK AT IS LOOKING AT WHEN THEY'RE GOAL PLATING, THE THAT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO GET TO, I'M SORRY, WHEN YOU GOAL PLATE, THE INFRASTRUCTURE SHOULD BE, BE LOOKING AT, AT ALSO AS MAYBE SOME NEW CONSTRUCTION SUBJECT TO C I A C CUZ THEY PUT A LOT OF REDUNDANT, UH, INFRASTRUCTURE IN THERE AND THE COMPLAIN LIKE SO MUCH SO THAT THE WINTER REPORT COMPLAINED THAT THEY COULDN'T, THEY COULDN'T TURN 'EM OFF BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T, THERE'S JUST NO WAY THERE WAS JUST SO MANY, UH, WIRES COMING IN.

SO THAT'S WHAT I WAS SAYING, SO.

OKAY.

I APPRECIATE THAT.

I APOLOGIZE FOR BEING THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

NO, NO, YOU'RE FINE.

OKAY.

ANYBODY ELSE? GO AHEAD.

COMMISSIONER TREL.

I MS. COOPER.

HI.

UM, I'M UH, YOU MENTIONED, UH, UH, MR. CHAPMAN ASKED YOU ABOUT THE TOWN LAKE CENTER AND YOU CONCEDED THAT IT WAS NOT KNOWN AND MEASURABLE.

I'M REAL INTERESTED IN THE CONSISTENT APPLICATION OF KNOWN AND MEASURABLE, UM, CHANGES TEST YEAR.

AND I'M WONDERING IF YOU PRESENTED EVIDENCE ON ANY OTHER, UM, ISSUES IN THE REVENUE REQUIREMENT THAT RELATED TO KNOWN AND MEASURABLE? UH, YES MA'AM I DID.

I, UH, KIND OF ACTED LIKE HALF A PUC LAWYER AND HALF AN AUSTIN ENERGY LAWYER KIND OF, UH, I STARTED OFF SAYING THESE ARE THE LEGAL STANDARDS AND THE LEGAL STANDARD IS AUSTIN ENERGY HAS THE BURDEN TO PROVE THE REASONABLENESS OF THE EXPENSES.

I I'M NOT, I DON'T.

IN FACT IT'S IT MAKES SENSE CUZ I'M NOT IN A POSITION TO PRESENT EVIDENCE.

I MEAN, I DON'T HAVE IT.

THEY'VE GOT IT.

SO, UH, IT'S NOT AN EXCUSE THAT WE DIDN'T ASK THE RIGHT DISCOVERY QUESTION.

IF WE RAISE AN ISSUE WITH AUSTIN ENERGY AND THEY DON'T RESPOND BACK AND THE THREE 11 IS A VERY GOOD EXAMPLE OF THE FAILURE OF A BURDEN OF PROOF IN THAT CASE AND A BURDEN OF PROOF, UH, BUT KNOWN IN MEASURABLE MEANS THAT WE USE A HISTORICAL TEST YEAR.

SO WE GO BACK A YEAR AND THAT'S THE CLO, BUT WE TRY TO GET AS CLOSE TO THE YEAR, THE RATES ARE GONNA BE EFFECT.

AND SO IN THIS CASE IT WAS 2021 AND THEN WE CAN MAKE WHAT'S CALLED KNOWN AND MEASURABLE ADJUSTMENTS.

AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS, IS THERE SOMETHING THAT'S CHANGED IN THE HISTORICAL TEST YEAR, WHETHER IT'S AN INCREASE IN COST OR AN ADDITIONAL COST THAT AUSTIN ENERGY WANTS RECOVERED IN RATES OR A DECREASE IN COST, THEY MAKE IT TO THE ACTUAL HISTORICAL 20, 21 FISCAL YEAR 2021, BUT TO BE A KNOWN AND MEASURABLE, THEY HAVE TO COVER CERTAIN CATEGORIES KNOWN.

OBVIOUSLY THAT MAKES SENSE MEASURABLE MEANS IT CAN'T BE AN ESTIMATE.

AND IN THIS CASE WITH THE, UH, BUILDING THE TOWN LIKE BUILDING, IT WOULD'VE BEEN AN ESTIMATE BECAUSE THEY SAID THEY WERE STILL IN NEGOTIATIONS AS TO TERMS. SO I HAD TO AGREE THAT THAT WAS NOT KNOWN IN ME.

IT WASN'T MEASURABLE.

AND SO ON THE TOWN LAKE CENTER IN PARTICULAR, MY MEMORY OF HAVING READ THE ENTIRE 150 HOWEVER MANY PAGES IS THAT, THAT, UH, DISCUSSION OF THAT IS THAT, UM, UH, IT WAS IT RELATED TO PERHAPS DEPRECIATION EXPENSES ASSOCIATED WITH THAT BUILDING.

BUT I WONDERED IF THERE WAS ANY DISCUSSION THAT YOU'LL RECALL OR ANY, UH, EVIDENCE I'LL USE THAT TERM LOOSELY PRESENTED THAT WAS, UH, RELATED TO THE OPERATING EXPENSES ASSOCIATED WITH THAT BUILDING, THAT THEY WERE ONLY PARTIALLY USING.

NOW PAGE 39 OF THE RATE FILING PACKAGE IS THE LIST OF KNOWN AND MEASURABLE CHANGES THAT AUSTIN ENERGY MADE.

THANK YOU.

UH, I ONLY REMEMBER CUZ I ALMOST MADE IN PAGE MY EXHIBIT, SO OKAY.

I'M THAT SMART? OKAY.

THANK YOU.

UH, AND UH, AND SO THEY, THEY DID MAKE AN ADJUSTMENT THERE.

NOW.

IT ALSO HAS TO, THE, THE EXPENSE HAS TO EXIST AT THE TIME THE RATES ARE GONNA TAKE EFFECT AND THAT'S WHAT THE, THE DRAWBACK IS WITH THE TOWN LAKE CENTER.

AND THAT'S BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT YET.

I MEAN, IS IT CORRECT THAT IT'S KNOWN THAT IT WILL BE TRANSFERRED TO ANOTHER PART OF THE CITY OF AUSTIN AND NO LONGER BEEN IN AUSTIN ENERGY'S PORTFOLIO? WELL, THEY, THEY, THEY, YES MA'AM THEY DID TAKE IT.

THEY DID EVERYTHING THEY COULD TO REMOVE THE COST OF, OF THE TOWN LAKE.

RIGHT.

BUT WHAT I WAS ARGUING IS THAT AUSTIN ENERGY HAD RESPONDED TO AN RFI SAYING, WELL, WE WE'RE GONNA GET 35 MILLION FOR IT AND WE'RE SUPPOSED TO GET IT SOMETIME WE'RE EXPECTING TO GET IT SOMETIME IN 2023, WHICH IS THE RIGHT YEAR.

RIGHT.

SO I SAID, HEY, UH, BUT THEN THEY CAME BACK AND SAID THEY DON'T HAVE THE DETAILS YET.

MY UNDERSTANDING FROM THE HEARING EXAMINER IS THAT HE DETERMINED

[00:50:01]

THAT IT, BECAUSE THE CONTRACT HAD NOT YET BEEN EXECUTED BETWEEN AUSTIN ENERGY AND I FORGET WHO IT IS, THEY'RE GONNA TRANSFER IT TO THAT.

THEREFORE IT WASN'T MEASURABLE.

YES.

YES.

MA'AM PRETTY MUCH.

AND YET, DO YOU RECALL, DID YOU TAKE A POSITION ON THE, UM, NUMBER OF BUDGETED FTES THAT ARE NOT CURRENTLY FILLED, UM, THAT THE HEARING EXAMINER OR FOUND WORD A KNOWN AND MEASURABLE CHANGE? WELL, I, I TOOK 'EM INDIRECTLY BY THE FACT THAT LIKE IN THE THREE 11 CALL CENTER, UH, THAT HAD SOME ADDITIONAL EMPLOYEES AND I SAID THAT WE HAVE NO COST STUDY.

THAT'S A SHARED SERVICE, WHICH IS KIND OF LIKE AN AFFILIATE TRANSACTION.

ANYBODY HAS DONE ANY BUSINESS.

I DON'T REALLY WANNA SPEND A LOT OF TIME.

I, I WROTE UP A LITTLE, UH, MEMO FOR YOU GUYS, BUT THEY DID, IN MY OPINION, THEY DID NOT MEET THEIR BURDEN OF PROOF.

WE HAD NO COST CENTER.

WE COULDN'T TELL THE REASONABLENESS OF COST.

WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT COST THEY INCLUDED AS PART OF THE THREE 11 COST CENTER.

DID THEY INCLUDE THE BUILDING? DID THEY INCLUDE THE UTILITIES? THERE'S NOTHING THERE.

AND PART OF IT WAS ALSO THEN ON TOP OF THAT, THEY WANTED TO ADD SOME ADDITIONAL EMPLOYEES, BUT THOSE, AND THEY SAY THERE WAS THE ONLY THING THAT WAS IN THE RECORD WAS AN ASSURANCE OF AN AUSTIN ENERGY EMPLOYEE THAT WE KNOW WILL HAVE THEM BY WHEN THE RATES START WELL, THAT'S, THEY DON'T HAVE, 'EM SIGNED UP NOW AND FOR THE LAST, SO IT'S THE SAME THING AS THE TOWN LAKE CENTER, WE DON'T HAVE, THEY'RE NOT THERE RIGHT NOW.

THEY DON'T HAVE A CONTRACT FOR HIRE RIGHT NOW.

SO JUST LIKE TOWN LAKE, THEY SHOULD ALSO BE EXCLUDED.

THEY ARE NOT KNOWN.

THEY ARE NOT MEASURABLE.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU.

WELL, THEY ARE KNOWN, BUT THEY'RE NOT MEASURABLE.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU, MS. COOPER.

I THINK, I THINK THAT'S ALL THE QUESTIONS WE HAVE FOR YOU SO WE CAN THANK YOU GUYS SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND YOUR PATIENCE.

I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

WE APPRECIATE YOU.

THANKS.

NEXT UP, WE HAVE PAUL ROBBINS AND WE HAVE A PRESENTATION.

WE'LL BE PULLING UP FOR MR. ROBINS.

JUST GIVE US A, A MOMENT.

IS THERE A POWERPOINT CLICKER? YOU CAN JUST SAY NEXT SLIDE.

I WILL GIVE US ONE MOMENT.

SOMEBODY GONNA SAY 1, 2, 3, GO.

WE'RE PULLING IT UP.

JUST GIVE US ONE MORE MOMENT, MR. ROBINS.

OKAY.

IT LOOKS LIKE IT UP.

IT'S UP? DO YOU SEE IT WHENEVER YOU'RE READY.

GOOD EVENING COMMISSION.

I'M PAUL ROBBINS.

I'M AN ENVIRONMENTAL ACTIVIST AND CONSUMER ADVOCATE, AUSTIN INTER UH, FIRST SLIDE.

SECOND SLIDE.

AUSTIN ENERGY HAS THE LOWEST AVERAGE RESIDENTIAL CONSUMPTION OF ANY MAJOR UTILITY IN AIRCO.

IT IS 26% BOWL UP THE AIRCO AVERAGE, ONLY 2% OF AIR COTS.

CUSTOMERS HAD AVERAGE CONSUMPTION THAT WAS LOWER.

UH, NEXT SLIDE, UH, PART, UH, PARTIALLY BECAUSE OF THIS, AUSTIN HAS ONE OF THE LOWEST AVERAGE RESIDENTIAL BILLS IN ACOT.

THEY ARE 34% LOWER THAN THE ACOT AVERAGE.

ONLY 3% OF ACOS CUSTOMERS HAVE BILLS LOWER THAN AUSTIN ENERGY.

AND THIS IS NO ACCIDENT.

WE HAVE BEEN WORKING TOWARDS THIS GOAL SINCE 1977.

THE, UH, THESE, UH, FOUR MAIN STRATEGIES ARE THE ENERGY BUILDING CODE, THE PROGRESSIVE RATE STRUCTURE, AUSTIN, THE, UH, ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM AND THE GREEN BUILDING PROGRAM.

UH, NEXT SLIDE, HOWEVER, AUSTIN ENERGY PROPOSES TO ELIMINATE THE PROGRESSIVE RATE STRUCTURE AND REPLACE IT WITH RATES THAT ARE LAR THAT LARGELY DISCOURAGE CONSERVATION.

UH, NEXT SLIDE, AUSTIN ENERGY PROPOSES A STEEP RESIDENTIAL TARIFF INCREASE.

THIS IS A CHART FROM AUSTIN ENERGY'S RATE FILING.

UH, THE FIXED MONTHLY CHARGE WILL RISE FROM $10 TO $25.

THE UTILITY, THE UTILITY CLAIMS THAT THIS IS IN LINE WITH WHAT AUSTIN'S NEIGHBORING UTILITIES CHARGE, BUT WITH THE EXCEPTION OF GEORGETOWN, ALL MUNICIPAL UTILITIES IN AIRCO HAVE RELATIVELY LOW MONTHLY CHARGES.

NEXT SLIDE.

UM, AS YOU CAN SEE, AUSTIN'S REALLY ABOUT AVERAGE, NEXT SLIDE, AUSTIN ENERGY'S CURRENT RATES ALSO

[00:55:01]

HAVE STEEP TIERS TO ENCOURAGE ENERGY CONSERVATION.

UH, UNDER THE NEW RATE, THESE TEARS WOULD BE FLATTENED SO THAT THERE WOULD BE MUCH LESS INCENTIVE TO INVEST IN ENERGY EFFICIENCY MEASURES.

UH, I DON'T KNOW HOW LEGIBLE THIS IS.

UM, THE LEFT BAR, UH, THE CHAIR STARTED 2.80 CENTS AND GO UP TO 10.80 CENTS.

BUT ON THE FAR RIGHT BAR THERE BETWEEN 3.7 AND 4.70 CENTS PER KILOWATT HOUR, AS I SAID, ALMOST FLAT, NEXT SLIDE.

THE ESTIMATED RATE SHOCK OF AUSTIN ENERGY'S NEW REGRESSIVE RESIDENTIAL RATE STRUCTURE WILL BE 18, AN 18%, $184 ANNUAL INCREASE HERE.

IT'S ESTIMATED ON THE EFFECT AT VARIOUS LEVELS OF USE.

AS YOU CAN SEE, LOW AND AVERAGE CUSTOMERS SEE STARK INCREASES WHILE VERY HIGH WHILE VERY HIGH USERS SEE PROFOUND SAVINGS.

NEXT SLIDE, AUSTIN ENERGY CLAIMS THAT POOR PEOPLE DO BETTER THAN AVERAGE CUSTOMERS UNDER THIS NEW RATE, BECAUSE WOULDN'T, YOU KNOW, WHAT POOR CUSTOMERS USE MORE THAN AVERAGE CUSTOMERS.

AND HERE IS A CHART THAT THEY PRESENTED, UH, TO PROVE THIS, UH, ACTUALLY THE REASON FOR THIS IS THAT, UH, MANY CAP CUSTOMERS LIVE IN APARTMENTS AND MANY APARTMENTS ARE ALL ELECTRIC.

HOWEVER, UH, THERE'S ONLY 7% OF CUSTOMERS WHO PARTICIPATE IN THE UTILITIES CAP PROGRAM.

UH, I ONLY WISH AUSTIN WERE SO WEALTHY THAT THERE WERE ONLY 7% POOR PEOPLE HERE.

ANY OF YOU BELIEVE THAT? UH, NO, IT'S PROBABLY ABOUT FOUR TIMES HIGHER AND AUSTIN ENERGY'S OWN DATA PROVES THAT THIS IS REALLY NOT THE CASE.

NEXT SLIDE.

THE UTILITY PROVIDED ME WITH CONSUMPTION BY ZIP CODE AND HOUSING TYPE THAT IS SINGLE FAMILY.

MULTI-FAMILY DUPLEX AND I, THIS WITH US CENSUS INCOME AND THE RESULT SHOWS WHAT EVERY OTHER STUDY THAT'S EVER BEEN DONE IN THE LAST 60 YEARS SHOWS THAT, UM, CONSUMPTION TRACKS INCOME, NEXT SLIDE DATA FROM THE ENERGY INFORMATION ADMINISTRATIONS, IT'S BEEN FIVE MINUTES, OKAY.

DATA FROM THE, UH, US ENERGY INFORMATION ADMINISTRATION SHOWS THE SAME THING.

UH, THIS IS A WIDELY ACCEPTED PRINCIPLE.

I HAVE ONE OTHER SLIDE AND THAT IS, UH, FINAL NEXT ONE.

NEXT ONE.

OKAY.

IN THE FIRST 11 MONTHS OF THE FISCAL YEAR, AIRCO HAD A 9% CONSUMPTION INCREASE.

AUSTIN ENERGY IS LIKELY TO HAVE A SIMILAR ONE.

THIS WILL PROBABLY RESULT IN A WINDFALL AND A WINDFALL, WHICH AVERAGED OVER FIVE YEARS, UH, WILL BE, WOULD LOWER THE RIGHT INCREASE PROPOSED, UH, SINCE AUSTIN ENERGY OFTEN HIDES INFORMATION.

I AM WORRIED THAT IF I SEND AN INFORMATION REQUEST ABOUT THIS ISSUE, THE UTILITY WILL NOT BE TRANSPARENT.

PERHAPS THEY WILL BE MORE OPEN IF IT COMES FROM YOU.

THANK YOU, MR. ROBBINS, ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. ROBBINS? GO AHEAD.

SO TO PARAPHRASE WITH THAT LAST SLIDE, WHAT YOU'RE SUGGESTING IS THERE'S, THERE MAY BE ADDITIONAL REVENUES IN 2022 BEYOND THE EXPECTED BECAUSE OF THE HIGH TEMPERATURES AND EVERYTHING THAT HAPPEN IN THIS YEAR, THE HIGH TEMPERATURES IN THE POST PANDEMIC BEHAVIOR.

YES.

OKAY.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER POTENTIAL REVENUE SOURCES THAT WE COULD LOOK AT AS A WAY TO DISCOUNT THE PROPOSED RATE INCREASE? WELL, I BROUGHT ONE UP AND, UM, I, HUMAN CLONING IS ILLEGAL, SO I DID NOT HAVE TIME TO PURSUE IT TO THE DEGREE THAT I WANTED TO, BUT I DID ENTER IT INTO EVIDENCE TO THE EXTENT THAT I COULD IN THE, UH, RED CASE.

AND THAT IS THAT, UH, C A AS ONE OF THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS, UH, BROUGHT UP, HAS A DIFFERENT DEFINITION IN THE WATER UTILITY AND THE WATER UTILITY.

IT'S CALLED A CAPITAL RECOVERY FEE.

AND THERE ARE ALSO DIFFERENT THINGS COVERED IN THE, UH, IN C A IN AUSTIN ENERGY VERSUS THE,

[01:00:01]

UM, UH, CAPITAL RECOVERY FEE IN AUSTIN WATER IN AUSTIN ENERGY.

THEY BASICALLY LOOK AT THE BUILDING AND WHAT IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDS THE BUILDING, BUT IN AUSTIN WATER, THEIR CAPITAL RECOVERY FEE ALSO INCLUDES MAJOR THINGS THAT ARE COMMON TO EVERYONE SUCH AS WATER TREATMENT, PLANTS, RESERVOIRS, AND THE LIKE, AND MANY OF US, UH, WERE SCRATCHING OUR HEADS WHEN THIS RATE CASE BEGAN.

I REMEMBER LANETTA BROUGHT IT UP, RANDY CHAPMAN BROUGHT IT UP.

UH, THEY WERE SAYING, HOW CAN THIS RATE CASE BE LINKED TO GROWTH? DIDN'T WE PAY FOR GROWTH? AND THE ANSWER LIES IN THE DEFINITION, WE DID THE NARROW DEFINITION OF WHAT THE COUNCIL ASKED THEM TO DO, BUT THEY DID NOT DO WHAT AUSTIN WATER'S DOING.

AND I THINK THAT IF YOU LOOK AT THE C I P AND APPORTION IT TO GROWTH, YOU CAN FIND WAYS TO LOWER THIS RATE CASE.

I THINK THERE IS STILL TIME.

UH, BUT AGAIN, I'M CHALLENGED BECAUSE OF THE TRANSPARENCY OF AUSTIN ENERGY.

UH, I DON'T WANT TO GO INTO ALL THE GORY DETAILS RIGHT NOW, BUT THEY HIDE INFORMATION.

GO AHEAD, COMMISSIONER CHAPMAN.

UH, I, I READ TODAY THAT, UH, THAT, UH, IN SAN ANTONIO, BECAUSE OF THE, UH, HAD STREAM WEATHER SALES THIS YEAR, THAT THEY ARE DISCUSSING OR PROPOSING A REBATE, UH, TO CUSTOMERS INSTEAD OF, UH, ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THAT? UH, I WILL HAVE TO THAT'S UH, NO, I WAS NOT FAMILIAR WITH THAT.

THANK YOU.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. ROBINS? GO AHEAD.

UM, SO, UH, MR. ROBBINS, YOU BELIEVE THAT THE FIVE TIERED STRUCTURE HAS HELPED, UM, MAKE AUSTIN HOMES MORE ENERGY EFFICIENT? UH, I, I DO.

I BELIEVE IT'S ONE OF OUR FORD TIERED STRATEGIES THAT HAS PRODUCED THE LOWEST RESIDENTIAL CONSUMPTION, AVERAGE RESIDENTIAL CONSUMPTION, AND THE LOWEST AVERAGE RESIDENTIAL BILLS OF ANY MAJOR UTILITY IN AIRCO.

GOOD.

THANK YOU.

UH, BY THE WAY, UM, THERE ARE, UH, OTHER INTERVENERS THAT STOLE MY THUNDER ON FINDING, UH, WAYS TO SAVE, UH, REQUESTED RATE MONEY, UH, BETWEEN THE ICA TTA COOPER, TAC, AND, UH, NXP.

THEY HAVE ALL RECOMMENDED SUBSTANTIVE QUANTIFIED AMOUNTS, AND I'M IN THE PROCESS OF PUTTING THAT TOGETHER IN SORT OF A SIDE BY SIDE COMPARISON.

I'D BE HAPPY TO, UH, EMAIL IT TO, UM, THE LIAISON WHEN, UH, I'M DONE.

AND, UH, IF YOU ALL, HAVEN'T ALREADY DONE THIS YOURSELVES, IT, IT MIGHT MAKE IT SLIGHTLY, UH, EASIER.

SURE.

PLEASE DO.

GO AHEAD.

COMMISSIONER TREL.

UM, YOU MENTIONED A MOMENT AGO, UH, THE, UH, INCREASES IN CONSUMPTION, UM, IN THE POST PANDEMIC WORLD.

AND THAT CAUGHT MY ATTENTION BECAUSE MY READING OF THE INDEPENDENT HEARING EXAMINER'S REPORT IS THAT HE CONCLUDES THAT THE EFFECTS OF THE PANDEMIC ARE, SHOULD BE EXPECTED TO CONTINUE.

DID YOU, WAS THERE EVIDENCE PRESENTED THAT YOU RECALL THAT WOULD'VE CHALLENGED THAT PROPOSITION? WELL, UH, THIS CHART NOW, THIS CHART IS INTUITIVE.

I DON'T KNOW THAT ANYONE HAS BROKEN IT OUT.

UH, AIRCO HAS INCREASED THE NUMBER OF CUSTOMERS YEAR ON YEAR BY ABOUT 1.4%.

THIS IS 9%.

SO THE OTHER TWO MUST BE POST PANDEMIC BEHAVIOR AND THE HEAT.

AND I'M NOT GOOD ENOUGH YET THAT I COULD SEPARATE THESE TWO AND TELL YOU HOW MUCH IS ONE AND HOW MUCH IS THE OTHER, I COULD, I COULD MAYBE HAZARD A GUESS, BUT I INTUITIVELY DON'T BELIEVE WHAT YOU JUST SAID.

THANK YOU, MR. ROBBINS, WHAT IS YOUR, UH, POSITION WITH REGARD TO THE HEARING EXAMINER'S RECOMMENDATION TO

[01:05:01]

EXPAND THE CAP PROGRAM AS A POTENTIAL WAY TO ALLEVIATE RATE RATE SHOCK? WELL, I HAVE, UH, TWO COMMENTS FIRST.

UM, IF YOU DIDN'T CHANGE THE RATE STRUCTURE OF SO RADICALLY, UH, YOU WOULD NEED TO INCREASE CAP SO RADICALLY.

UH, THE SECOND PART OF THIS IS THAT I PERSONALLY, UM, TO MY KNOWLEDGE AND, AND I HAVE NOT READ HIS REPORT YET WORD FORWARD.

UH, BUT TO MY KNOWLEDGE, HE IS PROPOSING SOMETHING GENERIC THAT HAS NOT BEEN QUANTIFIED WITH A DOLLAR AMOUNT, UH, OR EVEN A HARD, UH, DIRECTION.

UH, I JUST SORT OF LIKE, WELL, IF YOU DO THIS, MAYBE YOU OUGHT A CUSHION, MORE PEOPLE.

AM I GETTING THIS CONTEXT? CORRECT? I, I THINK THAT'S FAIR.

I THINK HE ASKS, HE ASKED US AND ENERGY AND, AND THE STAKEHOLDERS TO EVALUATE THAT AS A POTENTIAL WAY TO ALLEVIATE RATE SHOCK.

I THINK, UH, I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT A $25, UH,