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I HAD CANDY.

[00:00:01]

WE HAVE A QUO ON PRESENT.

UM, GOOD

[CALL TO ORDER]

MORNING EVERYBODY.

I'M NATASHA HARPER, MADISON.

I AM THE CHAIR FOR THE PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE HERE IN THE CITY OF AUSTIN.

UM, LOOKS LIKE WE'RE DOING A COMBINATION OF MEETING STYLES AND WE ARE MEETING BOTH VIRTUALLY AND HERE IN THE CHAMBERS AT AUSTIN CITY HALL.

UM, IT IS NOW 2:06 PM AND I CALL THIS MEETING OF THE AUSTIN CITY COUNCIL PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE TO ORDER.

UM, OUR FIRST ITEM

[1. Approve the minutes of the Public Safety Committee meeting of May 23, 2022.]

IS THE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES OF THE PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE MEETING FROM AUGUST 23RD, 2020 SECOND.

IS THERE A MOTION TO PASS? THE MINUTES, LOOKS LIKE COUNCIL MEMBER KELLY MAKES THE MOTION AND IT'S SECONDED BY A COUNCIL MEMBER OF VELA.

UM, ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE, LOOKS LIKE UNANIMOUS ON THE DAAS, UM, WITH COUNCIL MEMBER, KELLY COUNCIL MEMBER VELA AND MYSELF.

OKAY.

AND SO OUR NEXT ITEM IS DISCUSSION

[2. Discussion and possible action on implementing a sliding scale of fines for certain non-moving traffic law citations.]

IMPOSSIBLE ACTION ON IMPLEMENTING A SLIDING SCALE OF FINES FOR CERTAIN NON-MOVING TRAFFIC, UM, LAW CITATIONS.

AND IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, THERE WAS SOME CONFUSION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THERE'D BE SOMEBODY HERE TO SPEAK ON THAT ITEM.

HI THERE.

I'M SORRY.

I'M MICHAEL COFFEE FROM COMMUNITY COURT.

UM, YOU ARE WELCOME TO MAKE YOUR WAY TO THE PODIUM.

THANK YOU.

I BELIEVE IT WAS MY COLLEAGUE COUNCIL MEMBER KELLY, UM, WHO REQUESTED SOME INFORMATION ON THE ITEM AND I'M CERTAIN, UH, WE LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING THE ANSWERS TO HER QUESTIONS.

I'LL BE HAPPY TO TRY TO ANSWER ANYTHING I CAN.

I'M MICHAEL COFFEE FROM THE DOWNTOWN AUSTIN COMMUNITY COURT, UH, HERE AT THE REQUEST OF JUDGE STATMAN COUNCIL MEMBER KELLY, ARE THERE QUESTIONS OR DO YOU WANT ME TO? I BELIEVE SO.

YEAH.

SO, UM, I JUST, WHEN I REQUESTED A BRIEFING ABOUT ALTERNATIVES TO FEES AND FINES, BASED ON WHEN PEOPLE ARE PULLED OVER FOR THINGS LIKE BROKEN TAILLIGHTS OR OTHER ITEMS, IT WAS TO HELP WITH RACIAL AND SOCIOECONOMIC DISPARITIES.

I INITIALLY IMAGINED THAT PERHAPS A SLIDING SCALE FEE WOULD BE THE BEST WAY TO APPROACH THAT.

AND I THOUGHT MAYBE WE COULD BASE THAT ON MEDIUM FAMILY INCOME.

UM, SOME OF THE MINOR VIOLATIONS I THOUGHT ABOUT WHEN I THOUGHT ABOUT THIS ITEM WERE SPEEDING FAILURE TO STOP FOR A SCHOOL BUS OR BROKEN TAILLIGHTS.

BUT OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST COUPLE DAYS, I LEARNED FROM OUR CITY LEGAL DEPARTMENT THAT THOSE FEES AND FINES ARE SET BY STATE LAW FOR CLASS C MISDEMEANOR VIOLATIONS AND THAT THE CITY CAN'T CHANGE OR AUGMENT THOSE STANDARDS.

I DO KNOW HOWEVER THAT THE CITY COUNCIL CAN SET FINES AND IMPOSE GENERAL STANDARDS FOR ASSESSING FINES FOR A VIOLATION OF ITS OWN ORDINANCES.

AND SO THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING THIS AS AN AGENDA ITEM COLLEAGUES, BUT IN THE FUTURE, THE, THE FOCUS OF MY TIME WILL BE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHERE WITH A VIOLATION OF OUR OWN ORDINANCES, WE MIGHT BE ABLE, ABLE TO IMPACT A GREATER AFFORDABILITY FOR OUR RESIDENTS SO THAT WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT OUR FINES ARE NOT OVERLY BURDENSOME FOR OUR RESIDENTS AND THAT THEY WON'T FORCE OUR RESIDENTS IN THE COMMUNITY FURTHER INTO POVERTY.

SO THANK YOU AGAIN FOR HAVING THIS ITEM.

UM, JUDGE COFFEE, IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD, I I'D BE HAPPY TO HEAR IT.

WELL, I THINK WHAT YOU SAID IS EXACTLY ACCURATE, UH, I GUESS FROM THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT IN, IN MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE LAW AS WELL.

UM, THE ONE THING I GUESS I WOULD ADD IS JUST TO BE SURE EVERYBODY'S CLEAR IS THAT BOTH MUNICIPAL COURT AND COMMUNITY COURT CURRENTLY DO SLIDING SCALE IN THE SENSE THAT WE LOOK AT INDIVIDUALS AND WHAT THEIR ABILITY TO PAY IS.

SO WE, WE DO TAKE FINANCIAL INFORMATION FROM PEOPLE.

UH, WE DO HEAR ANYBODY'S IN ANYTHING THEY HAVE TO SAY OR ANYTHING THEY WANT TO TELL TO A JUDGE WHEN THEY IMPOSE A FINE, AND THE JUDGES HAVE A LOT OF LEEWAY AS TO WHAT THEY CAN ACTUALLY DO ONCE THEY'VE GOTTEN INFORMATION, EXCUSE ME, AND HAVE HEARD WHAT A DEFENDANT OR I GUESS THE STATE HAS TO SAY ON ABOUT A PARTICULAR CASE.

THE JUDGE DOES HAVE THE ABILITY TO ADJUST THE FINE, EITHER HIGHER OR LOWER, DEPENDING ON CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE CASE AND THE FACTS OF THE CASE AND THE ABILITY OF THE DEFENDANT TO PAY.

SO WE GET A LOT OF INFORMATION.

ONCE WE HAVE THAT, IF WE THINK THE DEFENDANT STILL DOES NOT HAVE AN ABILITY TO PAY OR TO DO SOMETHING, WE CAN CONVERT FINE AND COSTS INTO LIKE COMMUNITY SERVICE WHERE THEY CAN DO VOLUNTEER WORK FOR, UH, NON-PROFIT AGENCIES OR GOVERNMENT AGENCIES, COMMUNITY COURT.

IN FACT, EVEN AS VEHICLES WHERE THEY CAN GO OUT AND DO COMMUNITY SERVICE THROUGH THE COURT ITSELF AND MUNICIPAL COURT SENDS PEOPLE OVER TO US TO DO THAT AS WELL.

[00:05:01]

UM, IN ADDITION TO THAT, THE JUDGES HAVE AN ABILITY TO ALLOW VARIOUS DIFFERENT TYPES OF THINGS TO COUNT AS COMMUNITY SERVICE.

SO THINGS THAT THEY BELIEVE MAY HELP THE COMMUNITY AND, AND HOPEFULLY HELP THE INDIVIDUAL AS WELL, UM, WILL HAVE THEM SOMETIMES DO ESSAYS ON TOPICS THAT ARE APPROPRIATE DEPENDING ON THEIR WHAT'S GOING ON IN THEIR LIFE.

UH, MAY HAVE THEM, UH, TRY TO GET WORK IF THEY'RE NOT UNEMPLOYED AND SHOW THAT THEY'VE DONE EFFORTS TO DO THAT OR SHOW THAT THEY'VE, UH, GOTTEN MEDICAL CARE OR DENTAL CARE, OR THEY'RE WORKING ON HOUSING, WE'RE ABLE TO GIVE CREDIT AGAINST COMMUNITY SERVICE HOURS IN A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT WAYS.

UM, FINALLY, WE ALSO HAVE AN ABILITY TO WA IF IT'S UN THEY'RE SIMPLY UNABLE TO PAY OR TO DO ANYTHING, WE CAN SIMPLY WAIVE THE FINE COSTS.

AND ALL OF THAT TYPE OF THING DOES HAPPEN ON INDIVIDUAL CASES.

SO WE DON'T HAVE A GIANT STANDARD SLIDING SCALE, BUT WE DO HAVE INDIVIDUAL SLIDING SCALES BASED ON A PERSON'S CIRCUMSTANCES WHEN THEY'RE IN FRONT OF THE JUDGE.

DOES THAT ANSWER WHAT YOU'RE ASKING? YEAH.

I THINK THAT ADDRESSES IT PERFECTLY.

COULD YOU GIVE THE COMMUNITY A FEW EXAMPLES POSSIBLY OF WHERE THIS HAS WORKED IN THE PAST SO THAT WE CAN KNOW HOW MUCH OF AN EFFECT IT MIGHT HAVE ON AN INDIVIDUAL WHO MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO PAY A FEAR OF FINE? SURE.

UM, MANY TIMES WHEN PEOPLE ARE UNABLE TO PAY, THEY WILL COME TO COURTS.

THEY STILL HAD AN OFFENSE.

AND SO THEY'RE FOUND GUILTY AND FINED ON IT.

UH, BUT WHEN THEY MEET WITH THE JUDGE, THEY FIND THAT THE JUDGE MAY FIND THAT THEY'RE UNABLE TO PAY OR HAVE A DIFFICULT TIME PAYING PARTICULAR FINE OR COST.

UH, I HAVE A ASSIGNED MYSELF, UH, PEOPLE TO DO THINGS LIKE MEET WITH SOCIAL WORKERS AND FOLLOW RECOMMENDATIONS THAT THE SOCIAL WORKER MAY COME UP WITH.

AND THAT MANY TIMES WILL GO ALONG THE KINDS OF LINES THAT I'VE SAID JUST A MINUTE AGO.

THEY MAY BE ASKED TO, UH, GO SEE A DOCTOR.

IF THEY'VE BEEN ILL, THEY MAY BE, UH, TAKEN OVER TO HELP GET THEIR SOCIAL SECURITY CHECK GOING.

THEY MAY BE, UH, ASKED TO COME BACK AND MEET WITH THE SOCIAL WORKER AND THEY'RE GIVEN AN HOUR CREDIT FOR COMING BACK AND JUST MEETING ON A REGULAR BASIS.

SO WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE CONTACT AND MAKE, UH, UH, GET THEM COMFORTABLE WITH MEETING WITH OUR SOCIAL WORKERS AND, UH, BE ABLE TO COME IN AND GET HELP WHEN THEY NEED TO DO THAT.

UM, I I'VE, UH, YOU KNOW, MANY TIMES HAVE LIKE PUBLIC INTOXICATION, YOU MENTIONED, UM, I'VE ASSIGNED PARTICULARLY YOUNGER PEOPLE, UM, STATE REQUIRED CLASSES.

BUT IN ADDITION TO THAT, UH, READING A PARTICULAR BOOK THAT I'VE READ, OR TWO COUPLE DIFFERENT ONES THAT I'VE READ THAT I THINK ARE VERY GOOD AND GIVE THEM AN IDEA OF WHERE THEY COULD BE HEADING.

IF THEY CONTINUE ALONG THE PATH THEY'RE DOING USUALLY THAT'S FOR A SECOND OR MORE OFFENSE.

BUT, UM, SO THEY MAY READ THIS BOOK AND GET ESSAYS BACK FROM THESE THAT I LOOK AT AND REVIEW AND APPROVE OR SEND BACK TO THEM IF THEY DON'T ADDRESS THE POINTS THAT I ASK THEM TO ADDRESS.

AND IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE MANY TIMES IN PEOPLE'S LIVES, HOW THEY, UH, WHEN THEY LEARN INFORMATION ABOUT HOW OTHER PEOPLE HAVE BEEN AFFECTED AND HOW THEY MIGHT IN FACT BE ABLE TO, UH, AVOID THAT KIND OF PROBLEM AND FUTURE IN THEIR LIFE.

THANK YOU, JUDGE COFFEE.

IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S A LOT OF FLEXIBILITY, WHICH I REALLY APPRECIATE, UM, YOU KNOW, MEETING PEOPLE WHERE THEY ARE.

UM, AND IT ALSO SOUNDS TO ME LIKE MY COLLEAGUE IS ENCOURAGING THAT MOVING FORWARD.

SHOULD THERE BE MORE INNOVATIVE IDEAS ABOUT HOW PEOPLE CAN, UM, RESOLVE FINES IN LIEU OF CASH? AND WE'RE CERTAINLY OPEN IDEAS TOO.

YEAH.

PLEASE FEEL FREE TO, TO COME BACK WITH YOURS AND WE'LL, WE'LL, YOU KNOW, COME TO YOU GUYS WITH OURS COLLEAGUES.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, COUNCIL MEMBER VELA, THANK YOU, VICE CHAIR, BY THE WAY.

AND JUST A QUICK QUESTION ON ER, ADJUDICATIONS OR, OR I GUESS DEFERRED DISPOSITIONS, RIGHT.

IN THE, FOR DISPOSITIONS, RIGHT.

DE DEFERRED DISPOSITIONS, WHICH AGAIN, JUST FOR THE PUBLIC ARE WHERE THERE, THERE'S NOT A FINDING OF, OF GUILT.

YOU KIND OF, YOU DEFER THE FINDING OF GUILT.

UH, YOU LET THE PERSON TAKE SOME, SOME, UH, ACTIONS, UH, TO KIND OF MITIGATE, UH, UH, THE, THE, THE CHARGE.

AND THEN IF THE PERSON SUCCESSFULLY DOES THAT, YOU DISMISS A CASE AT THE END, RIGHT.

DO THOSE.

AND THEN I'M WORKING FROM MEMORY HERE, BUT THOSE HAVE A COURT COST OR SOME KIND OF, UH, UH, DOLLAR AMOUNT THAT IS, UH, THAT IS REQUIRED BEFORE THEY'RE ENTERED.

THEY CAN, AND IN, IN THOSE CASES WE DO THE SAME THING THOUGH.

WE STILL GET THE FINANCIAL INFORMATION AND DEPENDING ON THEIR CIRCUMSTANCES, WE CAN ADD ON ADDITIONAL COMMUNITY SERVICE OR ADD ON SOMETHING ELSE, OR JUST WA IT ENTIRELY

[00:10:01]

IF NEED BE.

AND, AND JUST SO CUZ WITH WHEN A TICKET, LET'S SAY A SPEEDING TICKET, FOR EXAMPLE, THERE'S A MINIMUM COURT COST THAT HAS TO BE PAID, ASSUMING SOMEONE'S JUST GONNA PAY THEIR TICKET AND THEN THE FINE, UH, ANY FINE WOULD BE ON, ON TOP OF THAT.

IS THAT CORRECT? JAMES THAT'S CORRECT.

YEAH.

AND IN MY EXPERIENCE, UH, THE MUNICIPAL COURT PROSECUTORS HAVE BEEN REALLY GOOD ABOUT, UH, LIKE THE FINE WOULD BE LIKE A DOLLAR.

WE ARE A WHOLE LOT OF CASES WHERE THE FINES $1, BUT MOST OF THE EXPENSES, THE FEES THAT THE STATE IMPOSES.

YEAH.

THAT THAT'S MY, UH, MEMORY AS WELL, IS THAT THEY'RE NOT TRYING TO TACK ON, UH, A BIG CHUNK ON TOP OF THAT.

THEY'RE REALLY JUST TRYING TO GET THE PERSON TO TAKE THE, YOU KNOW, DEFENSIVE DRIVING CLASS OR, YOU KNOW, DO WHATEVER FOR FIX THE, THE TAILLIGHT THAT WAS OUT OR, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING, UH, ALONG THOSE LINES.

UH, UH, YOU KNOW, ONCE THAT SITUATION IS FIXED, THE, THE, THE COURT AND THE, THE MUNICIPAL PROSECUTORS IN MY EXPERIENCE HAVE BEEN PRETTY FLEXIBLE ABOUT WORKING, UH, WITH, UH, ATTORNEYS AND DEFENDANTS.

UH, THANK YOU FOR THAT.

THAT'S ABSOLUTELY TRUE IS WHAT OUR POINT IS.

BASICALLY WE WANT IT FIXED TO NOT HAPPEN AGAIN.

AND THAT'S, THAT'S THE POINT OF MOST OF WHAT WE DO NOT PUNISHMENT.

AND I DO APPRECIATE, UH, A COUNCIL MEMBER KELLY'S, UH, UH, INITIATIVE AND, AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, SHE'S ABSOLUTELY IN, IN GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION WITH, UH, WITH THOSE THOUGHTS, UH, VICE SHARE KELLY.

YEAH.

THANK YOU.

AND I JUST WANNA ACKNOWLEDGE CHAIR THAT IN SOME OF OUR PREVIOUS MEETINGS, YOU HAD TALKED ABOUT RIDE AND DIRTY AND HOW THAT COULD POTENTIALLY HAVE IMPACTS ON PEOPLE FURTHER DOWN THE ROAD.

AND SO I JUST WANNA SAY THIS WAS MORE OF A COLLABORATIVE EFFORT TO BRING FORWARD BASED ON LISTENING TO YOU AND MY OTHER COLLEAGUES TALK ABOUT WAYS THAT WE CAN HELP OUR COMMUNITY AND LIFT THEM OUT OF THEIR SITUATION INSTEAD OF FORCING THEM FURTHER DOWN INTO POVERTY.

THANK YOU.

I APPRECIATE THAT JUDGE, UNLESS THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE WE APPRECIATE THAT I WOULD JUST ADD THAT THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF COMMUNITY COURT AS WELL.

ABSOLUTELY.

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE TRY TO DO.

ABSOLUTELY.

AND WE, WE APPRECIATE THE WORK YOU DO.

UH, SURE.

UH, WE RECOGNIZE IT.

Y'ALL HAVE A, QUITE THE HALL AT OUR COMMUNITY COURT AND WE REALLY APPRECIATE THE APPRECIATE, WELL, WE, THE HELP THAT WE GET FROM COUNCIL.

ABSOLUTELY.

THAT'S HOW WE DO IT.

ALL RIGHT.

ALL WELL, THANK YOU.

WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT.

SO ITEM NUMBER TWO IS DISCUSSION IMPOSSIBLE ACTION ON IMPLEMENTING.

OH NOPE.

I MIGHT HAVE SKIPPED ONE.

NO, NO, NO.

THAT WAS APPROVING THE MINUTE.

SO ITEM NUMBER THREE IS

[3. Briefing by Austin Fire Department on regulations for the allowable distance for hazardous materials storage in relation to single family and multi-family residences.]

A BRIEFING BY AFD ON REGULATIONS FOR THE ALLOWABLE DISTANCE FOR HAZARDOUS STORAGE, UH, HAZARDOUS MATERIAL STORAGE IN RELATION TO SINGLE FAMILY AND MULTIFAMILY RESIDENCES FO FOLKY.

HOW ARE YOU? I'M WELL, HOW ARE YOU? VERY GOOD.

GLAD TO BE HERE TODAY.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

I HAVE WITH ME YVONNE ESPINOZA, WHO'S OUR, UH, LEAD ENGINEER AND SHE'S BEEN DOING HAZMAT IN THE AUSTIN AREA OVER 20 YEARS.

SO SHE HAS A VAST AMOUNT OF EXPERIENCE AND I MAY REFER TO HER WITH SOME QUESTIONS AND STUFF AS WE GO THROUGH THE, THROUGH THE, UH, PRESENTATION.

AWESOME.

I APPRECIATE THAT.

SO WE REQUESTED THIS ITEM DUE TO THE IMPACT THESE REGULATIONS HAVE ON, UM, MULTI-FAMILY HOUSING PRODUCTION, IN WHICH CASE, WHY DOES THE CITY HAVE DIFFERENT STANDARDS FOR SINGLE FAMILY VERSUS MULTI-FAMILY? UM, AND DOES THIS REQUIREMENT ALIGN WITH REGIONAL AND NATIONAL STANDARDS? AND I SEE THEY HAVE A PRESENTATION FOR US.

AND SO THAT'S JUST SORT OF THE, THE BASELINE QUESTION, IF, AND WHEN YOU GET TO BEING ABLE TO HELP US UNDERSTAND THOSE.

RIGHT.

FOR SURE.

AND FOR SURE.

SO TOM VOKEY, FIRE MARSHAL, AND WE HAVE A, ABOUT 10 SLIDES WE'LL GO THROUGH 'EM PRETTY QUICK.

AND THEN WE'LL BE HERE FOR QUESTION AND ANSWER.

I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY WHERE WE'LL GET TO THE HEART OF MOST OF THE, THE QUESTIONS THAT Y'ALL HAVE.

SO WE'LL GO AHEAD AND GET STARTED.

SO WE'RE, WE'RE HERE TO TALK ABOUT REGULATIONS FOR HAZARDS AND MATERIALS, MATERIAL STORAGE, AND, AND REALLY WHAT WE DEAL WITH FOR THE MOST PART IS, IS MULTI-FAMILY RESIDENCES IS WHEN WE BECOME INVOLVED, YOU CAN GO AHEAD TO THE NEXT SLIDE OR DO I DO IT MYSELF? YEAH.

OKAY.

LET'S SEE.

THAT'S PERFECT.

EASY ENOUGH.

SO, UM, WE PROVIDE A HIGH LEVEL CONSERVATIVE VIEW, UH, BASED ON EVACUATION EXPOSURE, HAZARDS, AFD, UH, REGULATES AND MONITORS, HAZARD MATERIALS, STORAGE, AND USE.

SO NOT JUST STORAGE, BUT STORAGE AND USE AT FACILITIES AROUND THE CITY.

UH, OFTENTIMES THE ZONING CHANGES THAT WE'RE SEEING OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS REALLY, UH, ENCROACH ON THE BUFF BUFFER THAT WE LIKE TO SEE AROUND, UH, AROUND THESE FACILITIES.

SO TYPICALLY, UH, I KNOW WE TALK ABOUT THE THOUSAND FOOT RULE AND I KNOW THAT'S THROWN AROUND A LOT, BUT TYPICALLY WHAT WE DO AT THE THOUSAND FEET IS THAT WE USE THAT AS OUR SEARCH RADIUS TO START.

UH, AND WE LOOK FOR ABOVE GROUND HAZARDOUS MATERIALS, PERMITS AND SITES, UH, THAT ARE WITHIN A THOUSAND FEET OF THAT AREA.

IF WE KNOW THAT THE SITE IS CLOSER TO ONE OF OUR CHIP MANUFACTURERS OR ONE OF THE MORE DANGEROUS AREAS, WE MAY EXPAND THAT TO GREATER THAN A THOUSAND FEET.

SO THAT'S JUST A GENERAL GUIDELINE THAT WE USE AS A STARTING POINT.

SO, UM, HAZARDOUS MATERIALS, UH, SITES THAT ARE PERMITTED PRESENT AND EVACUATION EXPOSURE, HAZARD HAZARD, AND WE LOOK AT THE THREE THINGS BELOW HERE.

WE EITHER DO AN AFD, HAZARDOUS MATERIALS, RISK ANALYSIS.

WE USE THE EMERGENCY RESPONSE GUIDEBOOK PROVIDED BY THE D O T.

UH, THOSE ARE THE TWO METHODS THAT WE TYPICALLY USE TO DECIDE WHAT THE DISTANCE SHOULD

[00:15:01]

BE FOR THE BUFFER AROUND THE INDUSTRY.

AND AGAIN, OUR BEST PRACTICE IS, IS A, A BIG, THE BIGGER, THE BUFFER, THE BETTER AROUND THE COMMERCIAL STUFF.

SO, UM, SO FOR SITES NOT MEETING THE ACCEPT ACCEPTABLE SEPARATION DISTANCE THAT WE FIND, TYPICALLY WHAT WE'LL DO IS WE RECOMMEND HOUSING AND PLANNING.

THE, THE ZONING CHANGE NOT BE APPROVED.

AND WE'VE BEEN IN LINE WITH HOUSING AND PLANNING ON MOST OF THESE, UH, APPROVALS.

SO AGAIN, THIS IS NOT, UH, THIS IS JUST A RECOMMENDATION FROM US.

THE, THE ZONING BOARD, UH, IN THE COUNCIL MAKES THE FINAL DECISIONS ON THESE.

SO IN 2017, WE'RE WE REQUESTED TO BE ADDED TO THE FORMAL REVIEW PROCESS.

AND SO IN 2019, WE HAVE, WE HAD SEVERAL ZONING CHANGES THAT WERE NOT APPROVED BASED ON AFDS, UH, UH, INPUT REGARDING HEALTH AND SAFETY.

AND SO THE DEVELOPERS AT THAT POINT STARTED ASKING FOR AN INFORMAL REVIEW PROCESS PRIOR TO SUBMITTING A FORMAL REVIEW.

SO A LOT OF WHAT WE DO IS AN INFORMAL REVIEW WHERE THE DEVELOPERS COME TO US SAYING, HEY, WE'RE GONNA REQUEST A ZONING CHANGE FOR THIS PROPERTY, WOULD YOU ALL OPPOSE IT? AND SO IF THAT CASE, IN THAT CASE, WE'LL DO AN INFORMAL REVIEW.

WE'LL LOOK AT WHAT, UH, WHAT WE SEE IN THE AREA AND WE'LL MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THEM.

SO THEY, SO THEY DON'T GET INTO THE PROCESS AND THEN HAVE US CUT 'EM OFF.

AND SO I THINK IT'S A, A MORE EFFICIENT WAY TO DO IT.

AND IT'S STILL AN INFORMAL PROCESS, BUT ALLOWS US TO, TO WORK WITH THEM AND, AND LET 'EM KNOW WHERE THEY STAND WITH WITH WHAT OUR RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE ON, ON THE ZONING CHANGE.

SO AGAIN, WE CONTINUE TO DO THE FORMAL AND INFORM INFORMAL.

WE MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS TO HOUSING AND PLANNING DEPARTMENT, AND WE WORK, UH, DIRECTLY WITH DEVELOPERS.

SO WHAT ARE OUR CONCERNS? SO THE POTENTIAL EVACUATION OF A LARGE NUMBER OF FOLKS FROM A RESIDENCE IS OUR PRIMARY CONCERN.

THE AMOUNT OF TIME IT TAKES, UH, CAN BE SEVERAL HOURS.

FOLKS CAN REFUSE TO EVACUATE SIGNIFICANT PUBLIC SAFETY TIME IS SPENT ON THE EVACUATION.

THAT'S OUR PRIMARY CONCERN.

WE WANT THAT WE, WE, FROM THE TIME OF RELEASE TO GETTING FOLKS OUTTA HARM'S WAY AS OUR BIG CONCERN.

AND WHEN YOU ADD A LARGE NUMBER OF FOLKS TO AN AREA, IT BECOMES VERY DIFFICULT TO GET 'EM OUT IN A QUICK, QUICK MANNER.

SHELTERING IN PLACE IS ANOTHER THING THAT WE CAN POSSIBLY DO IN SOME LOCATIONS.

BUT AGAIN, DEPENDING ON THE CONDITIONS, TIME OF YEAR, WE MAY BE SHUTTING OFF VENTILATION, AC HEAT, THOSE TYPE OF THINGS.

UM, FOLKS MAY NOT COMPLY WITH THAT EVACUATION OR SHELTER IN PLACE, AND AGAIN, POSSIBLE REFUSAL TO SHELTER IN PLACE COMPLETELY WHERE, YOU KNOW, THEY'LL BE OUT AND ABOUT AGAIN, CAUSES SIGNIFICANT, UH, CONCERNS FOR US, FOR THEIR SAFETY AND FOR THE, THE PUBLIC SAFETY FOLKS, THEY'LL BE WORKING IN THE AREA TO, UH, TO, TO DEAL WITH IT.

SO AGAIN, UH, A COMMERCIAL BUFFER IS WHAT ALLOWS US TIME TO ACCESS THE FOLKS AND ACT.

AND SO THAT BUFFER ALLOWS US THAT TIME, UM, REMOVING COMMERCIAL BUS BUFFER, YOU KNOW, CREATES EXPOSURE RISK FOR FIRST RESPONDERS AND RE RESIDENTS.

AND OBVIOUSLY, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, THE SHELTER IN PLACE, UM, IS, IS, YOU KNOW, CAN BE REALLY DIFFICULT, ESPECIALLY IF WE HAVE ANY VULNERABLE POPULATIONS INCLUDED IN, IN, IN THE, UH, AREA THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

SO AGAIN, THERE ARE SOME OTHER, THESE ARE SOME OF THE MORE CONCERNING THINGS THAT WE HAVE IN THE AUSTIN AREA.

WE DO HAVE FIVE SEMICONDUCTOR SITES IN THE AREA.

UM, TYPICALLY THEY STORAGE LARGE QUANTITIES OF HOUSES, MATERIALS, UH, AND AGAIN, THESE PLACES WERE PERMITTED MANY, MANY YEARS AGO, MOST OF THEM, AND THEY WERE PERMITTED UNDER THE, THE CURRENT GUIDELINES THAT EXISTED, THEN NOT THE CURRENT GUIDELINES WE HAVE NOW.

AND SO THEY ONLY HAVE TO MEET THE CODE FROM WHEN THEY WERE PERMITTED.

NOW, IF THEY DO UPGRADES OR UPDATE THINGS, WE BRING 'EM TO CURRENT CODE, BUT TYPICALLY MOST OF THESE PLACES, SOME OF 'EM BEEN HERE AS MANY AS 30 YEARS.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE'RE DEALING WITH OLDER TECHNOLOGY AND, AND AGAIN, THAT CONCERNS US.

UM, AND SO WE'RE ALSO SEEING EXPANSION IN THE, IN THE CHIP MANUFACTURING IN AUSTIN AREA, AS Y'ALL MIGHT HAVE SEEN, UH, PRESIDENT BIDEN PASS THE $52 BILLION CHIP MANUFACTURING, UH, BILL RECENTLY, UM, A LARGE MAJORITY OF THE MICROCHIPS THAT ARE PRODUCED IN THE US FOR AUTOS ARE PRODUCED IN AUSTIN.

AND AT 12% OF THE CHIPS IN THE WORLD ARE PRODUCED IN THE US.

MOST OF THOSE ARE TEXAS, AND MOST OF THOSE ARE AUSTIN.

SO THIS IS A BIG DEAL.

AND WE DO EXPECT MAJOR EXPANSION.

I KNOW THAT THERE WERE SOME, UH, ARTICLES THAT CAME OUT RECENTLY ABOUT 700, 800 MILLION EXPANSIONS TO SOME OF THESE AREAS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CURRENTLY.

SO ALSO ALONG WITH, WITH THE SEMICONDUCTOR FACILITIES, WE ALSO HAVE ALL THE SUPPORTING, UH, CAST THAT BRINGS IN THE GASES AND THE THINGS THAT THEY NEED.

SO, UH, AGAIN, TYPICALLY THE GAS PLACES DON'T HAVE THE SAME CONTROLS AS THE MANUFACTURERS, AND THEY ARE ALSO REGULATED UNDER WHATEVER CODE WAS IN PLACE WHEN THEY, UH, BECAME IN, CAME INTO AN EXISTENCE.

SO, UM, AGAIN, WE HAVE, UH, WE'RE REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT GASES.

SO WITH, WHEN IT COMES TO HAZARDOUS MATERIALS, UH, COMPRESSED NATURAL GAS FUELS, UH, DIESEL FUEL JET FUEL, THOSE TYPE OF THINGS, WE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH.

THERE'S LOTS OF ENGINEERING SCIENCE THAT TELLS US EXACTLY WHAT THE DISTANCE SHOULD BE AND WHAT THE SEPARATION SHOULD BE AND HOW WE SHOULD ACT AROUND THOSE.

BUT WHEN WE'RE DEALING WITH, UH,

[00:20:01]

WITH GASES, IT BECOMES VERY UNPREDICTABLE AND, UH, AND IT'S REALLY, REALLY TOUGH TO, TO FIGURE OUT EXACTLY, UH, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN BECAUSE JUST SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS, AS A HEAVY, HEAVY BREEZE FROM ONE DIRECTION, UH, REALLY CHANGES THE, THE, THE FALLOUT AREA AND THE POSSIBLE FOLKS IMPACTED BY THAT.

SO, UM, AGAIN, WE'RE REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE GASES AND, YOU KNOW, THE HEAVY INDUSTRIAL AREAS, UH, AROUND TOWN.

WE DO HAVE FOLKS MOVING IN AND OUT, UH, AND WHEN TENANTS MOVE IN AND OUT, AND IT'S INDUSTRIAL TO INDUSTRIAL, IF THEY'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, TELLING US AND, AND GIVING US THE, EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE STORING AT THAT PLACE, YOU KNOW, THERE COULD BE SOME UNREGULATED HAZMAT IN THOSE AREAS AS WELL.

SO THAT'S A BIG CONCERN FOR US TOO, IS JUST, YOU KNOW, REALLY BEING ABLE TO KEEP UP WITH ALL OF THE, THE CHANGES AND THE NEW PLACES COMING TO TOWN WITH, YOU KNOW, THE MASSIVE MANUFACTURING EXPANSION WE'VE SEEN ON THE EAST PART, EAST, EAST SIDE OF AUSTIN WITH TESLA.

AND SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS WE HAVE IN THE AREA, UH, HERE ARE FIVE, UH, SEMICONDUCTOR SITES.

AND, UM, YOU CAN SEE SAMSUNG UP NORTH AND WE HAVE NXP AND, AND A FEW AROUND BEN WHITE.

AND YOU CAN SEE THAT THAT ESSENTIALLY, UH, YOU KNOW, LINES UP WITH, WITH THIS, WHICH IS OUR INDUSTRIAL AREA.

SO THESE ARE, THIS IS A, A FAIRLY RECENT MAP.

I THINK IT'S 2020 FROM, FROM THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT, UH, SHOWS WHAT, WHAT IS, UH, CONSIDERED CURRENTLY THE INDUSTRIAL AREAS OF AUSTIN.

AND AS YOU CAN ALSO SEE IS, IS YOU'VE DROVE AROUND TOWN AND Y'ALL ARE FAMILIAR WITH, WITH THESE PARTS OF TOWN.

THERE ARE, UH, RESIDENTIAL AR UH, BUILDINGS GOING INTO THOSE AREAS.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE APPROVED A LOT OF SITES, BUT WE'RE STILL, UH, YOU KNOW, VERY CAUTIOUS AND WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE DOING THE RIGHT THING FOR THE CITIZENS AND THE FOLKS MOVING INTO THOSE AREAS.

SO OPTIONS FOR DEVELOPERS.

UM, ONE OF THE THINGS WE DO ALLOW DEVELOPERS TO DO IS, IS TO PROVIDE A TECHNICAL REPORT FROM AN ENGINEER STATING, UH, WITH A SEAL ON IT THAT, THAT THEY'VE DONE A FULL REVIEW OF THE SITE AND THAT THEY'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THE SITE.

I THINK WE'VE ONLY HAD A FEW OF THOSE THAT HAVE COME THROUGH THAT WE'VE ACCEPTED AT THIS POINT.

UM, BUT IT IS AN OPTION.

IT'S AN EXPENSIVE OPTION.

AND I THINK PROBABLY IN MOST CASES, IT COSTS THE DEVELOPER SIX FIGURES TO DO THAT.

UH, BUT IT IS AN OPTION.

WE ALSO, UH, UH, WE, WE ADVISE THE DEVELOPERS THAT THERE'S ALWAYS, UH, OTHER USES FOR THE, FOR THE SITE RATHER THAN RESIDENTIAL.

BUT IF THAT WAS THE CASE, WE PROBABLY WOULDN'T BE HAVING THE CONVERSATION WITH THEM ANYWAY.

UH, AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IS, IS A SETTING, UH, ON THEIR SITES, HAVING SETBACKS IN PLACE, UH, FOR ACCEPTABLE SEPARATION DIS AN EXAMPLE WOULD BE THAT IF YOU OWNED A, A, A SPOT AND, YOU KNOW, A PORTION OF YOUR LOT WAS CLOSER THAN IT NEEDED TO BE TO HAZARD MATERIAL, YOU COULD MAYBE PLACE YOUR PARKING WHOOP, SORRY, PLACE YOUR PARKING LOT ON ONE SIDE.

AND YOU'RE BUILDING ON THE OTHER, CREATING AN ADDITIONAL SETBACK.

AND SO WE'VE DEFINITELY DONE SOME OF THAT.

AND WE HAVE AT LEAST 10 CASES WHERE WE'VE, WE'VE MADE SESSIONS.

WHAT DID YOU CALL IT? SORRY, WHAT DID YOU CALL IT? LIKE THE FUN SHU OF IT.

IT'S JUST IT'S SETBACK.

SO, UH, OH, OKAY.

I THOUGHT YOU CALLED IT SOMETHING IN PARTICULAR.

SORRY.

I DON'T THINK I SAID FUN.

SWE.

MAYBE I DID.

I GOTCHA.

I GOTCHA.

SO, I MEAN, SO WHAT WE CAN DO IS, IS WE CAN LOOK AT THAT AND WE CAN, UH, WE CAN ESSENTIALLY WE'RE NEGOTIATING WITH THE, WITH THE DEVELOPER TO GET US TO A SAFER PLACE, AND THAT THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE WANT IN MOST CASES.

UM, SO, SO AGAIN, FOR THE FUTURE, WE CAN CONTINUE THE, UH, INSTITUTE, THE SETBACK REQUIREMENTS WHEN ZONING CASES ARE ACTIVE.

UH, AND ALSO WE'LL OBVIOUSLY CONTINUE TO DO THE THINGS THAT WE'VE BEEN DOING ON WITH THE INFORMAL REVIEWS TO PROVIDE THE, THE DEVELOPERS, THE INFORMATION ON THE FRONT END, SO THAT THEY DON'T SPEND A BUNCH OF MONEY WORKING ON A DEVELOPMENT THAT'S NOT EVER GONNA BE APPROVED.

UH, ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT DOING AGAIN, WE WOULD NEED, UH, WE WOULD NEED DIRECTION ON THIS IS, IS JUST TO PROVIDE A LETTER TO FILE, UH, OF WHAT WE RECOMMEND THE BUFFERS TO BE FOR THESE CERTAIN KNOWN HAZARDS.

ESSENTIALLY, WHAT WE WOULD BE DOING AT THAT POINT IS, IS ESTABLISHING AN EXCLUSION ZONE.

WE DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO THAT, BUT IT COULD BE SOMETHING THAT IF, IF DIRECTED THAT WE COULD WORK ON, UM, AGAIN, WE, HAVEN'T DONE A FULL, UH, RISK ANALYSIS OF THE CITY OF AUSTIN SINCE 1996, UH, AND, UH, FOR THE HAZARDOUS MATERIAL SIDE.

AND SO I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY SOMETHING THAT WE COULD UPDATE AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE, YOU KNOW, WITH US JUST THE, THE INFORMAL REVIEWS AND ALL THE OTHER REVIEWS WE'RE DOING, UH, ALONG WITH TRYING TO KEEP UP WITH THE INVENTORIES OF HAZARDOUS MATERIALS IS REALLY TAXING ON OUR HAZMAT GROUP.

AND, AND, YOU KNOW, WE REALLY ONLY HAVE ESSENTIALLY, UH, UH, FOUR AND A HALF FOLKS WORKING ON THAT STUFF RIGHT NOW.

AND SO, UH, IT'S, IT'S A BIG JOB AND THEY DO A GREAT JOB, BUT IT'S A LOT TO ASK OF, OF THE TEAM.

UM, SO THAT GETS ME TO THE END.

AND, UH, AT THIS POINT WE CAN, WE CAN TAKE QUESTIONS, HAVE TONS UNCERTAIN.

MY COLLEAGUES DO TWO COUNCIL MEMBERS.

OH, THERE YOU ARE.

UM, UH, GOT EVERYBODY HERE, CHAIR KELLY, OR BY CHAIR KELLY.

I WAS GONNA SAY, YOU'RE

[00:25:01]

THE CHAIR YOU'RE PROMOTED.

SEE YOU LATER FOLKS.

UM, WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT INFORMATIVE PRESENTATION.

AND THANK YOU CHAIR FOR PUTTING THIS ON OUR AGENDA.

UM, I HAVE TWO THINGS.

THE FIRST I NOTICED THE PRESENTATION IS NOT IN A BACKUP, AND I THINK THAT IT WOULD BE OF GREAT VALUE TO HAVE THAT FOR REFERENCE LATER.

SO I'D REQUESTED STAFF PUTS THAT ONLINE FOR US.

THE SECOND THING IS A LITTLE OFF TOPIC, BUT I THINK IT KIND OF PLAYS INTO THIS.

UM, HOW DOES MOPAC AND THE HAZARDOUS MATERIALS THAT GO UP AND DOWN MOPAC EVERY DAY, PLAY INTO YOUR EMERGENCY, UM, PLANNING PROCESS FOR HAZARDOUS MATERIALS, BECAUSE I HEARD YOU TALK A LOT ABOUT RESIDENTIAL AREAS AND MY CONCERN IS IF SOMETHING WERE TO HAPPEN, THERE'S A LOT OF HOUSES THAT ARE NEAR MOPAC.

AND SO NOT KNOWING WHAT'S GOING UP AND DOWN MOPAC EVERY DAY CERTAINLY MUST BE A CHALLENGE.

SO I'D JUST LIKE TO HEAR A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.

UH, SO THE FIRE DEPARTMENT IS ONLY RESPONSIBLE FOR STATIONARY INSTALLATIONS.

UM, WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING THAT'S IN TRANSPORT, SO, UM, WE'RE NOT THE ENTITY THAT REGULATES THAT, BUT YOU WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR, I GUESS, UM, GOING TO ONE OF THOSE INCIDENTS IF THEY WERE TO OCCUR, CORRECT.

THAT'S RESPONDING TO IT.

THAT'S CORRECT.

YES, THAT'S CORRECT.

OKAY.

SO WHAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE? I MEAN, IT WOULD LOOK LIKE ANY OTHER RESPONSE FOR US.

SO, I MEAN, TYPICALLY WE WOULD BE CLOSING DOWN, YOU KNOW, PARTS OF MOPAC AND, AND, YOU KNOW, USING OUR EMERGENCY RESPONSE GUIDEBOOK TO, UH, TO EVACUATE AS NECESSARY AND THEN MITIGATE THE SITUATION.

WE WOULD PROBABLY NEED SOME ADDITIONAL RESOURCES MAYBE FROM OUTSIDE THE AREA, DEPENDING ON WHAT WE WERE DEALING WITH.

BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD JUST BE LIKE ANY OTHER HAZMAT RESPONSE.

UH, BUT WITH, YOU KNOW, THE HIGHWAY INVOLVED, YOU KNOW, IT, IT WOULD, YOU KNOW, CLEARLY INTERRUPT THE CITY AND IN A BAD WAY, SIMILAR TO WHAT WE HAD WITH, UH, YOU KNOW, I, 35 BEING CLOSED THIS WEEKEND IN SOUTH AUSTIN, UH, YOU KNOW, FOR SEVERAL HOURS FOR A HAZARDOUS MATERIAL SPILL WITH, UH, THE DIESEL FUEL.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU, COUNCIL MEMBER VALLA.

IT'S JUST, UH, THE, TO GET BACK TO SOME OF THE, THE POINTS THAT YOU MADE ON THAT PRESENTATION.

SO IN 1996, WE WENT AND WE DID A KIND OF ANALYSIS TO IDENTIFY LIKE YOUR MAJOR HAZARDOUS MATERIALS STORAGE SITES.

UH, AND WE HAVEN'T UPDATED THAT SINCE 1990 AS IN TERMS OF A MASTER LIST, HUH? CORRECT.

I MEAN, WE, WE DO MONITOR, UH, THE HAZARDOUS MATERIALS AND WE DO HAVE, UH, WE CONSTANTLY PERMIT.

SO WE ARE IN A, THERE'S A PERMITTING PROCESS FOR, FOR HAZARDOUS MATERIALS OVER CERTAIN QUANTITIES.

AND SO WE STILL HAVE THAT ROLLING.

IT'S, IT'S NOT THAT IT'S UNREGULATED.

WE JUST HAVE NOT DONE A COMPREHENSIVE REVIEW OF EVERYTHING AND, AND OVER, AND ACTUALLY, I GUESS WE'RE COMING UP ON 25, 26 YEARS AT THIS POINT, WHICH IS PROBABLY LONGER THAN, UH, MOST OF US HAVE WORKED HERE.

SO THIS IS PRIOR TO US EVEN WORKING FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT.

MM-HMM SO, SO WE'RE AWARE OF WHERE ALL THE HAZARDOUS MATERIAL SITES ARE, BUT WE JUST HAVEN'T DON'T HAVE A KIND OF A MASTER LIST OF THEM BASICALLY.

YEAH.

SO WE DO HAVE A MASTER LIST.

WE JUST HAVEN'T DONE A COMPREHENSIVE REVIEW AND WENT BACK AND, AND VERIFIED EVERY SINGLE THING AT EVERY LOCATION.

IT'S A, IT'S A HEAVY LIFT MM-HMM AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVEN'T DONE, BUT OUR, OUR STAFF DOES CONSTANTLY, WE ARE PERMITTING EVERY YEAR.

WE ARE INSPECTING EVERY YEAR.

MM-HMM, AGAIN, NOT EVERY SITE, BUT WE'RE INSPECTING WHAT WE CAN EVERY YEAR AND WE'RE, WE'RE ENGAGED, BUT AGAIN, UH, NOTHING COMPREHENSIVE THAT, THAT GOES THROUGH EVERY SINGLE THING LIKE THEY DID IN 1996.

AND HOW MANY SITES DO YOU THINK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TOTAL KIND OF HAZARDOUS MATERIALS SITES ABOUT 3,500, RIGHT.

3,500.

AND SO OTHER THAN, UH, THE CHIP MANUFACTURERS, I MEAN, WHAT ARE THE KINDS OF, UH, UH, OF, UH, YOU KNOW, BUSINESSES, YOU KNOW, WHAT TYPES OF PLACES ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? SO, I MEAN, IT COULD BE ANYTHING FROM AN AUTO BODY SHOP TO ANY, ANY TYPE OF MANUFACTURING WHERE THEY HAVE ANY KIND OF CHEMICAL PROCESS.

UM, SO THERE'S, IT'S A, A VERY WIDE VARIETY OF, OF THINGS.

SO THE CHIP MANUFACTURING AGAIN, LIKE, AND IT CAN ALSO BE ABOVE GROUND, UH, DIESEL FUEL OR, OR, UH, GASOLINE STORAGE, AGAIN, ANY OF THE GAS STORAGE THAT'S, UH, YOU KNOW, LPG OR, OR, UH, PETROLEUM PRODUCTS.

WE'RE PRETTY COMFORTABLE WITH WHAT OUR EXCLUSION ZONES ARE BASED ON A LOT OF HISTORY AND A LOT OF INCIDENTS.

MM-HMM, , UH, THE, THE, THE GASES THAT COME WITH SOME OF THE THINGS LIKE CHIP MANUFACTURING ARE, UH, VERY SCARY AND, UH, AND HAVE, CAN HAVE A REALLY SIGNIFICANT IMPACT.

AND SO THOSE, THOSE ARE OUR BIGGEST CONCERNS, BUT TO YOUR POINT 3,500 SITES IS A LOT.

AND, AND, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A PRETTY SMALL STAFF THAT SPENDS THEIR TIME ON THIS.

UH, WE DO USE SOME OF OUR OPERATIONS CREWS TO GO OUT AND INSPECT SOME OF THESE SITES TOO.

UM, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE ON THE FIRE TRUCK IN SERVICE, THEY DO SOME INSPECTIONS, BUT AGAIN, IT'S NOT FULLY COMPREHENSIVE.

AND, AND, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, PART OF, PART OF OUR CONCERN WITH THE BUFFERS IS THE FACT THAT SO MANY OF THESE SITES EXIST AND, AND THE BUFFERS ARE THERE TO, TO PROTECT THE CITIZENS.

AND WE'D LIKE TO MAINTAIN THOSE AS MUCH AS WE CAN GOT IT.

AND, AND AGAIN, NOT TO ALARM PEOPLE, BUT LIKE A LOT OF THESE SITES I'M THINKING OF, LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, A SWIMMING POOL MAINTENANCE

[00:30:01]

COMPANY IS GONNA HAVE A BUNCH OF KIND OF HAZARDOUS, UH, UH, MATERIALS.

I MEAN, WITH SOMETHING LIKE THAT SMALL, THAT WOULD BE ON THE LIST.

YES.

UH, AND EVEN LIKE, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE KIND OF OIL CHANGE SHOP IS GONNA, AGAIN, HAVE LARGE AMOUNTS OF LIKE, YOU KNOW, OIL, THOSE, WOULD THAT BE ON THE LIST? WELL, PROBABLY NOT.

IN MOST CASES, IF, IF THERE WAS A LARGE SHOP, THEY MAY, BUT YOUR TYPICAL JIFFY LIVE OR SOMETHING PROBABLY WOULD NOT BE ON THE LIST.

MM-HMM OKAY.

UH, WELL, THANK YOU.

I APPRECIATE IT.

AND I MEAN, IT DOES SOUND LIKE IT'S TIME TO UPDATE THAT LIST, BUT, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, I KNOW RESOURCES CAN BE, UH, CAN BE LIMITED.

UH, SO I UNDERSTAND WHY, WHY IT HASN'T BEEN UPDATED.

UH, I NO FURTHER QUESTIONS FROM ME CHAIR.

THANK YOU, COUNCIL MEMBER.

I ACTUALLY HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS AND YOU INSPIRED ONE OF THE ONES THAT I HAD, AND I'LL JUST SORT OF GO BACK TO IT.

I WAS THINKING THROUGH WHAT TYPES OF PLACES, SO LIKE DRY CLEANERS, FOR EXAMPLE, UM, WE USED TO REGULATE A LOT OF DRY CLEANERS.

WELL, ACTUALLY WE STILL DO.

THEY'RE USING A COMBUSTIBLE PRODUCT TO DRY CLEAN.

SO YES, WE DO HAVE SOME DRY CLEANERS ON THE LIST.

WE HAVE ABOUT, UH, 400 SITES THAT WE IDENTIFY AS MORE, UM, OF A HAZARD.

UM, SO OUT OF THE 3,500 OR SO THERE'S ABOUT 400 IN THE CITY THAT ARE, UM, AT THE TOP OF OUR LIST FOR INSPECTIONS AND REVISITING.

OKAY.

AND THEN THE OTHERS AT, I DON'T WANNA USE THE WORD BENIGN, BUT THE OTHERS ARE OF LESS, UM, PRIORITY CONCERN, LESS DANGER, LESS CONTENT.

IS IT QUANTITY? IS IT, ARE THEY ON A BAD ACTOR'S LIST? LIKE WHAT MAKES THOSE 400, UH, THE 400 ARE ON THE LIST OF BOTH FOR QUANTITY, THE TYPES OF CHEMICALS AND, UH, WHETHER THE, UH, MANUFACTURING IS MORE DYNAMIC.

SO, UH, THEY'RE MORE LIKELY TO MAKE CHANGES WITHOUT NOTIFYING US OR THEIR PROCESSES ARE JUST MORE COMPLICATED.

SO THAT'S WHAT MAKES THE, THE 400 THAT'S VERY HELPFUL.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

AND THEN, UM, UH, UH, BACK TO THE QUESTION ABOUT THE RISK ANALYSIS, WHAT'S THE STANDARD, WHAT'S THE NATIONAL STANDARD FOR HOW OFTEN A MUNICIPALITY CONDUCTS THAT ANALYSIS? UM, I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY STANDARD THAT WOULD REQUIRE US TO DO THE RISK ANALYSIS.

IT, UM, WAS DONE BACK IN 1996 AS A RESULT OF AN, UH, FIRE THAT OCCURRED ON IN EAST AUSTIN THAT REQUIRED EVACUATION OF QUITE A FEW CITIZENS.

SO THE FIRE WAS THE IMPETUS AT THAT TIME, BUT THERE'S NO PROTOCOL FOR HOW OFTEN WE MAKE AN ASSESSMENT OF OUR ASSETS.

AND, AND YOU THINK THAT'S THE CASE NATIONWIDE.

I JUST FOUND SOMETHING OUT THE OTHER DAY THAT WAS REALLY SHOCKING TO ME ABOUT THERE'S NO PEOPLE ARE, WERE DYING ALL SUMMER AND UPS TRUCKS, FOR EXAMPLE.

AND I MEAN, HAVING EACH, BUT THERE'S NO NATIONAL STANDARD FOR REQUIREMENTS AROUND THAT SORT OF INCLEMENT WEATHER, LIKE NO AIR CONDITION.

AND SO THAT REALLY SHOCKED ME THAT THERE WAS NO STANDARD THERE.

SO I JUST WONDER IF THIS IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE IT'S LIKE, IT SEEMS OBVIOUS, BUT ACTUALLY NO, THERE IS NO STANDARD, THERE'S NO STANDARD TO DO THE RISK ANALYSIS, LIKE THE TYPE THAT WE DID BACK IN 1996.

UM, BUT THERE'S CERTAINLY LIKE FEDERAL STANDARDS FOR CITING OF HAZARDOUS MATERIALS, UM, WITH SITES THAT HAVE FEDERAL FUNDING.

UM, AND SO THERE IS, THERE IS STUFF OUT THERE ON A NATIONAL LEVEL, BUT IT'S JUST NOT, THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT OF IT.

THERE'S NOT A NATIONAL, UM, REGULATION NECESSARILY FOR CITIES TO FOLLOW IN REGARDS TO, YOU KNOW, HOUSER'S MATERIALS IN CITING.

SO IT'S SAFE TO SAY THOUGH THAT THOSE 400 THOUGH, BECAUSE THEY REQUIRE THE REGULAR INSPECTION AS A PART OF THE PROTOCOL THAT THOSE ARE GETTING, WHAT WOULD OTHERWISE BE COVERED IN A, A MORE COMPREHENSIVE RISK ASSESSMENT? WE DO TRY TO GO OUT AND LOOK AT THOSE SITES AS FREQUENTLY AS WE CAN.

WE, UM, ARE STAFF OF THREE, UH, AND A, UH, CONTRACT INVO.

YOU SAID FOUR AND A HALF YEAH, WE HAVE A VACANCY.

YEAH.

WE HAVE A VACANCY RIGHT NOW.

OKAY.

UM, IS THAT AN ISSUE FOR Y'ALL, LIKE, IN TERMS OF THE KIND OF SUPPORTS THAT COUNCIL SHOULD BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION FOR THE DEPARTMENT? I MEAN, I THINK THAT WE CAN ALWAYS USE MORE RESOURCES AND WE WERE JUST GRANTED ADDITIONAL RESOURCES IN THIS YEAR'S BUDGET, INCLUDING ONE FOR HAZMAT.

SO WE ARE EXCITED TO HAVE YOU BE FIVE AND A HALF, SO WE'LL BE FIVE AND A HALF.

SO WHAT'S IDEAL.

WHAT'S THAT WHAT'S IDEAL FOR STAFFING FOR HAZMAT PERSPECTIVE? HONESTLY, WE COULD, WE COULD DO IS, IS AS MANY AS SEVEN OR EIGHT, IF, IF, YOU KNOW, SO TWO MORE ADDITIONAL WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT COULD POSSIBLY HELP US, BUT WE'RE EXCITED TO SEE WHAT WE CAN DO WITH THE ADDITIONAL STAFF WE JUST GOT THIS YEAR.

SO YOU DON'T MIND GIVING US AN UPDATE MAYBE NEXT YEAR AROUND THIS TIME JUST TO SEE HOW IT WENT AND IF THAT BUDGET ALLOCATION OF THAT FTE WAS HELPFUL.

ABSOLUTELY.

FOR SURE.

I APPRECIATE THAT.

THANK YOU.

UM, HOW DO DEVELOPERS KNOW TO ASK FOR THAT INFORMAL REVIEW? UM, I THINK, I THINK MAYBE WORD OF MOUTH AND

[00:35:01]

THEN ALSO GUIDANCE FROM, FROM THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION, CUZ THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION HAS DONE A GREAT JOB IN, OR THE PLANNING AND ZONING, UH, STAFF MEMBERS HAVE DONE A GREAT JOB OF SHARING WITH FOLKS AS THINGS HAVE COME IN.

SO JUST FOR A FEW NUMBERS, WE'VE DONE A HUNDRED AND UH, 117 OF THOSE REVIEWS UP TO THIS POINT.

AND THIS YEAR, UH, NO SINCE 2019 AND WE'VE APPROVED ABOUT 80% OF THE ONES THAT HAVE COME IN FOR INFORMAL REVIEW.

AND SO THERE WERE OF THOSE, THERE WERE, UH, THERE WERE 27 THAT WE OPPOSED.

AND THEN THERE WERE SOME THAT WE ASKED FOR, FOR SOME SETBACKS OR THERE'S 10 THAT WE ASKED FOR, YOU KNOW, SOME CHANGE TO THEIR, TO THEIR SITE THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO APPROVE IT.

SO THAT WAS, UH, YOU KNOW, I GUESS WE CONDITIONALLY OPPOSED IT, BUT IF THEY MET OUR CONDITIONS, WE WOULD APPROVE IT.

SO THANK YOU.

SO, I MEAN, SO THERE A MAJORITY OF THE ONES WE'VE LOOKED AT, WE HAVE, WE HAVE FOUND A WAY TO MAKE IT WORK FOR THEM, THE STAFF AS, SO WE'RE EXCITED THAT WE'RE ABLE TO DO THAT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SOME, YOU KNOW, CRITICAL AREAS THAT WE'RE, YOU KNOW, STILL GONNA, UH, KIND OF HOLD THE LINE AS FAR AS WE'RE CONCERNED WITH MAKING SURE THAT WE MAINTAIN THOSE AREAS AS A BUFFER FOR PUBLIC SAFETY.

I APPRECIATE THAT.

AND THAT WAS ACTUALLY ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT I HAD WHEN I WAS INSPIRED TO ASK FOR THIS PRESENTATION IS I WONDERED IF THERE WAS ANY WHAT'S THAT EXPRESSION ABOUT LETTER OF THE LAW SPIRIT OF THE CODE.

IT, I WONDERED IF THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR A HUMAN BRAIN, YOU KNOW, NOT AI TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS A SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCE AND CAN, YOU KNOW, DO HAVE SOME MORE NUANCED CONSIDERATION.

NO, AND ABSOLUTELY.

AND THAT'S WHY WHEN WE HEAR THAT THOUSAND FOOT RULE, AS YOU GUYS ARE IMPLEMENTING THIS THOUSAND FOOT ROLL, THAT'S NOT REALLY THE CASE AND THE THOUSAND FOOT IS WHERE WE'LL START LOOKING AND THEN WE'LL USE JUDGMENT AND GUIDANCE AND, AND EVALUATE AS BEST WE CAN.

AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT, IF WE CAN'T GET TO A PLACE WHERE WE CAN SAY, YES, WE DO OFFER THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO, TO FIND AN ENGINEER THAT CAN DO A DEEPER STUDY THAT THEY CAN PRESENT TO US.

THAT DOES SAY YES.

AND, AND HONESTLY THAT'S A, THAT'S A HEAVY LIFT FOR SOMEBODY CUZ IT'S EXPENSIVE AND COST AND YOU MAY NOT, YOU MAY NOT, YOU MAY SPEND A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS ON THAT STUDY AND THEY MAY TELL YOU, YOU EXACTLY WHAT WE TOLD YOU ALREADY.

SO YEAH, IT'S, IT'S A TOUGH, IT'S A TOUGH PLACE TO BE AS A DEVELOPER.

I, YOU KNOW, I, I DEFINITELY RECOGNIZE THAT.

I APPRECIATE THAT.

UM, SO YOU PROBABLY KNOW THIS WITHOUT ME TELLING YOU, BUT A LOT OF OUR, I THINK IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, MOST OF OUR SEMICONDUCTOR ACTIVITY HAPPENS IN DISTRICT ONE.

UM, GIVEN DISTRICTS, DISTRICT ONE'S PROPENSITY, ESPECIALLY WHERE IT'S HAPPENING.

YOU KNOW, A LOT OF FOLKS DON'T REALIZE SAMSUNG IS IN D ONE CUZ IT'S WAY UP AT PARMER, YOU KNOW, AND DESA, BUT THAT'S DISTRICT ONE.

UH, AND YOU KNOW, JUST THINKING OF WHEN I THINK OF HOW MUCH DEVELOPMENT IS COMING TO THE DISTRICT, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT COINCIDENTAL IT'S BECAUSE THERE WERE SO MANY YEARS OF DISINVESTMENT IN THE DISTRICT IT'S PRIME IT'S RIGHT.

FOR, YOU KNOW, AND SO THAT ALSO LEADS ME TO WONDER THOUGH, GIVEN THAT HISTORY OF DISINVESTMENT IN THE DISTRICT, DO WE HAVE ENOUGH, UM, FIRE RESOURCES, UM, IN TERMS OF PROXIMITY TO THOSE, UH, SEMICONDUCTOR SITES? I KNOW THEY ALL HAVE THEIR OWN FIRE SUPPRESSION SYSTEMS AND FIRE DEPARTMENTS ON SITE, BUT YOU KNOW, JUST IN TERMS OF ADDITIONAL SUPPORTS, IS THAT EVER A CONSIDERATION FOR YOU ALL? NO, I THINK THAT IT, THAT THE INCREASED DENSITY CITYWIDE AND ESPECIALLY IN AREAS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAD FIRE STATIONS PRETTY SPREAD OUT LIKE WE DID IN DISTRICT ONE.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'RE CONSTANTLY REEVALUATING.

UM, I DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE ANY MAJOR CONCERNS RIGHT NOW, BUT I DO THINK THAT AS WE, AS WE CONTINUE TO GROW AND CONTINUE TO INFILL AND CONTINUE TO INCREASE THE POPULATION, LOOKING AT INFILL STATIONS OR INCREASING THE NUMBER OF UNITS THAT SOME OF THE STATIONS THAT ARE IN THESE AREAS MAY, MAY BE BENEFICIAL TO US FOR, FOR RESPONSE TIMES.

AND YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT WE LOOK AT AS RESPONSE TIMES.

AND, YOU KNOW, IN CASES LIKE THIS, WHERE WE HAVE A, A, YOU KNOW, A GAS OR A HAZARDOUS MATERIALS, INCIDENT RESPONSE TIMES ARE REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE'RE THERE, THERE IN TIME TO MAKE SURE THAT WE, UH, THAT WE CAN EVACUATE FOLKS OR, OR GET 'EM TO HANG OUT WHERE THEY ARE, WHY, WHY WE FIGURE OUT WHAT'S GOING ON.

SO YEAH, I, I APPRECIATE THAT.

I'LL ADD THAT TO MY LIST OF THINGS TO PUT IN THE QUEUE FOR CONSIDERATION.

UM, I THINK I HAD TWO MORE QUESTIONS.

UM, I'D LIKE TO KNOW, YOU SAID YOU APPROVE 80%, THOSE 20% THE NOS, WHAT DO THE NO'S LOOK LIKE? WHAT ARE THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THE NOS? UH, SO, UH, MOST OF THE NO'S ARE, UM, USUALLY SHARING A PROPERTY LINE WITH A HEAVY INDUSTRIAL PROPERTY, UM, OR THEY'RE COMPLETELY SURROUNDED BY INDUSTRIAL PROPERTIES.

UM, SO I WOULD SAY THAT'S PROBABLY THE COMMON THREAD.

OKAY.

AND THEN I THINK THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN THE LAST OF MY QUESTIONS.

OH, THERE, THERE WAS ONE OTHER ONE.

UM, AND IT WAS

[00:40:01]

ABOUT, UM, IT WAS ABOUT SOMETHING SMALL THAT I SAW ON A LIST OF PROHIBITED USES FOR SOMETHING THAT CAME ACROSS MY DESK RECENTLY JANITORIAL SUPPLY, UM, BECAUSE THERE'S AMMONIA AND WINDEX AND, YOU KNOW, IS THAT ONE OF THOSE ONES THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED, UM, IN Y'ALL'S PURVIEW.

AND I WONDER IF MAYBE THAT'S WHY FOLKS ARE TRYING TO ADD THAT TO PROHIBITED USES OF JUST, I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT THAT WAS A BIG PROBLEM FOR FOLKS.

YEAH.

THEY COULD BE STORING QUANTITIES OF CHEMICALS THAT WOULD REQUIRE THEM TO GET AN ABOVE GROUND HAZARDS, MATERIALS PERMIT, BUT THAT'S USUALLY LIKE, UM, A WHOLESALE SUPPLIER OR SOMEBODY LIKE THAT.

IT WOULD HAVE TO BE LARGER QUANTITIES, I WOULD THINK.

IS THERE A, LIKE A, A BASELINE, WHEN YOU SAY QUANTITY, IS IT A MILLION GALLONS, 30,000 GALLONS? UH, NO.

SO FOR OUR PERMITTED AMOUNT, SO, UM, LET'S SAY YOU HAVE A GASOLINE, IT WOULD BE 10 GALLONS IF YOU HAVE, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, SULFURIC ACID, IT'S A GALLON.

IF YOU HAVE A GAS, IT'S A HUNDRED CUBIC FEET.

UH, SO IT JUST, SO THERE'S NO REAL, LIKE, EASY TO APPLY THAT.

NO.

AND, UM, IT'S ALL DEPENDENT ON THE NFPA 7 0 4 RATING SO THAT SOMETHING FIREFIGHTERS USE TO EASILY IDENTIFY WHAT HAZARDS MIGHT BE IN A BUILDING.

UM, SO IF THEY HAVE A MINIMUM NFPA 7 0 4 RATING OF TWO, UM, IN ANY OF THE THREE CATEGORIES, THAT'S WHAT, UM, THAT PLUS THE QUANTITY QUALIFIES THEM TO GET A, OR REQUIRES THEM TO GET ABOVEGROUND HAZARDS, MATERIALS, PERMIT.

THAT'S VERY HELPFUL.

AND THEN THE LAST QUESTION I'LL ASK YOU IS WHEN YOU SAID, YOU KNOW, THE, THE FOLKS IN BUILDING SERVICES, THEY'RE ABLE TO PREEMPT PEOPLE GOING OUT AND, AND GET IN THAT SITE PLAN BEFORE THEY DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT AFD WILL APPROVE IT.

IS THAT A STANDARD, LIKE, IS THERE A CHECKLIST CHECK, CHECK, CHECK, CHECK, CHECK, AND DO THIS, OR IS THAT JUST SOMETHING FOLKS DO? CUZ I DON'T WANT IT TO BE, YOU KNOW, HOW SOMETIMES SERVICES ARE INCONSISTENT AND IT JUST DEPENDS ON WHO YOU GET.

I DON'T WANT THAT TO BE THE CASE.

SO IS THAT, DO YOU KNOW IF THAT'S A PART OF THEIR CHECKLIST OR IS JUST SOMETHING SOMETIMES THEY DO THAT INFORMAL REVIEW, THE RECOMMENDATION TO DO THAT, AS FAR AS I KNOW, IT'S NOT A FORMAL PROCESS, SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE COULD CODIFY TO MAKE SURE THAT WE BUILD IN THAT PREDICTABILITY.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

I APPRECIATE IT.

Y'ALL DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, COLLEAGUES, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, COUNCIL MEMBER BRA JUST REAL QUICK.

IS THERE A MAP OF THE HAZARDOUS MATERIAL SITES? UM, WE DO NOT HAVE A MAP THAT SHOWS ALL THE SITES.

UM, WE USE A SOFTWARE FOR THE FIREFIGHTERS, UM, WHEN THEY'RE, UM, FOR THEM TO ACCESS THAT HAS ALL OF THE, THE TIER TWO SITES, WHICH IS A STATE REPORTING REQUIREMENT AND IT SHOWS THE 400 SITES THAT I SPOKE OF MM-HMM UM, BUT THAT'S THE ONLY MAP I'M AWARE OF.

I DON'T THINK IT'S ACCESSIBLE TO THE PUBLIC.

OKAY.

AND JUST OUTTA CURIOSITY, YOU KNOW, YOU SPOKE ABOUT THAT FIRE, UH, WAY BACK WHEN THAT TRIGGERED THE 1996, UH, REVIEW, WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME THERE WAS A, A MAJOR, UH, HAZARDOUS MATERIALS, FIRE, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT, THAT, THAT A, A SERIOUS TYPE OF HAZARDOUS MATERIALS FIRE, UM, WELL, IN TERMS OF HAZARDOUS MATERIALS INCIDENT, IT WASN'T A FIRE WE HAD, UM, IN JUNE OF NINE, UM, 2019, UH, WE HAD AN INCIDENT OFF OF SPRINGDALE, UH, THAT INVOLVED INHS AMMONIA, A RELEASE OF ANHYDRO AMMON MM-HMM, UH, WHICH, AND I'M THINKING BACK, I KNOW RECENTLY WE HAD, UH, SAMSUNG, WE WERE DISCUSSING THE, WAS THAT THE, THE ONE WHERE THE SAMSUNG CHEMICALS LEAKED INTO THAT CREEK.

SO THAT WAS AN ENVIRONMENTAL INCIDENT.

OKAY.

IT DID INVOLVE HAZARDOUS MATERIALS, UM, BUT IT WAS, UM, ON THE ENVIRONMENTAL SIDE, WHICH, UH, IS THE DIFFERENT KIND OF REGULATION, BUT, UM, IT CERTAINLY SPEAKS TO THE FACT THAT, UM, IT DOES HAPPEN.

IT COULD HAPPEN.

YEAH.

AND WHAT WAS THE 2019 SPRINGDALE SITUATION? UH, I'M SORRY, WHAT WAS HAPPENED IN THE 2019 THAT SPRINGDALE, UH, UH, LEAK OF THAT, UH, CHEMICAL, UM, THERE WAS A LEAKING VALVE.

OKAY.

UM, AND THAT WAS ACTUALLY A PRETTY LONG INCIDENT FOR US.

UH, BUT THAT IS ON A PRETTY, UH, BIG SITE WITH A LOT OF SPACE.

UM, SO IT DID NOT REQUIRE ANY EVACUATION OF, UH, ANY HOUSING AS FAR AS I KNOW.

OKAY.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

YEAH.

IT WAS A 13 HOUR INCIDENT AND THERE WERE ROAD CLOSURES AND ALL THOSE THINGS ASSOCIATED WITH IT, BUT FORTUNATELY THERE WAS A BUFFER THERE, SO WE, UH, DID NOT HAVE TO EVACUATE ANYONE FROM THEIR HOME.

AND AGAIN, APPRECIATE Y'ALL'S RESPONSE.

I, I THINK I DID HAVE ONE QUESTION THAT DIDN'T GET ANSWERED AND IT WAS, UM, ABOUT HOW, WHAT IMPACT IS THERE, HAS THERE BEEN A, ANY ANALYSIS CONDUCTED ABOUT WHAT IMPACT THESE REGULATIONS HAVE ON MULTIFAMILY HOUSING, THE PRODUCTION OF MULTIFAMILY HOUSING? I, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW OF, OF ANY REPORT OR ANY INCIDENT ABOUT

[00:45:01]

THAT.

I MEAN, I CAN TELL YOU THAT WE'VE, YOU KNOW, THE SITES THAT WE'VE LOOKED AT THAT WE DID TURN DOWN WERE, WERE MOSTLY MULTIFAMILY.

SO THE, THE 20, THE 20 PLUS THAT WE'VE LOOKED AT THAT WE SAID NO TO WERE, WERE AT LEAST MIXED USE, UH, WITH MULTIFAMILY.

SO, UM, THAT THAT'S, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO EXACTLY MEASURE THAT.

CAUSE IT WAS ALL PROPOSED THINGS, BUT YOU KNOW, IT, IT, IT WOULD ADD UP TO, TO LOTS OF AVAILABLE UNITS.

I DON'T KNOW THAT I, MICHAEL, YOU THINK THAT'S THE KIND OF, WHAT IS THAT THE KIND OF THING WE COULD COME UP WITH A FORMULA FOR TO MAKE THE DETERMINATION OF HOW MANY OF, HOW MANY MULTI-FAMILY UNITS WEREN'T PRODUCED BECAUSE OF THE REGULATION? NO.

OH, I'M CERTAINLY NOT ASKING YOU TO DO IT ON THE PODIUM RIGHT NOW.

I'M JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW WOULD WE EVEN DETERMINE WHAT THAT, WHAT THAT I THINK IT'S DIFFICULT CUZ IT'S PROPOSED.

RIGHT, RIGHT.

SO IT'S, THEY PROPOSED THIS, BUT WE SAID, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, WE'RE TRYING TO CATCH JUST AT THE SITE PLANNING OR PRIOR TO SITE PLANNING WITH, WITH ZONING CHANGES.

SO THERE'S NOT, IT'S NOT A REAL PROPERTY AT THAT POINT.

IT'S, IT'S WHAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO DO WITH THE, I SEE WHAT YOU, OR WHAT THEY SAID THEY WOULD DO WITH THE PROPERTY.

OKAY.

IN WHICH CASE THERE'S NO REAL IMPACT.

THERE'S I THERE'S EXACTLY.

GOT IT.

THANK YOU.

I APPRECIATE IT VERY MUCH.

ALL RIGHT.

SO

[4. Briefing on Austin's right of way easements compared to the recommendations of regulatory agencies.]

WE'RE MOVING ON TO ITEM NUMBER FOUR, WHICH IS OUR LAST ITEM FOR TODAY AND IT IS A BRIEFING ON AUSTIN'S RIGHT OF WAY EASEMENTS COMPARED TO, UH, THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF REGULATORY AGENCIES.

YES, SIR.

HI THERE.

GOOD AFTERNOON.

I CALLED YOU PREMATURELY OH, THAT'S QUITE RIGHT.

MICHAEL GATES.

REAL ESTATE SERVICES, OFFICER FINANCIAL SERVICES DEPARTMENT.

AND SO, AND I MIGHT BE JOINED IN THIS PRESENTATION BY A COLLEAGUE FROM DSD.

I'M NOT QUITE SURE WE WERE GONNA VIRTUAL AT VIRTUAL.

YES, YES.

YES.

WELL, I'LL GO AHEAD AND GET STARTED IF THAT'S ALRIGHT THEN, OR MAYBE NOT WE'LL BOSWELL AND PRESENTATION.

OKAY.

IS THIS YES.

OKAY.

GOOD TO GO.

OKAY.

HERE WE GO.

OKAY.

SO HOW EASEMENTS ARE ESTABLISHED.

SO FOR, AND THIS IS FOCUSED ON CITY OF AUSTIN OWNED EASEMENTS.

SO THERE'S REALLY TWO MAIN WAYS THAT THEY'RE ESTABLISHED.

ONE IS THE EXACTION PROCESS, AND THAT IS ONE.

SO, UH, DEVELOPER COMES IN WITH DIVISION PLA OR A SITE PLAN AND THEY'VE GOTTA DEDICATE EASEMENT, UH, FOR THAT PARTICULAR PROPERTY.

SO THEY CAN BE SERVICED WITH UTILITIES AND ALSO PUBLIC SAFETY AGENCIES.

AND THE OTHER PRIMARY WAY WE DO THIS IS BY ACQUISITION BASICALLY OFTENTIMES UNDER THE THREAT.

AND THIS IS WHERE THERE ARE NO EXISTING EASEMENTS, BUT WE NEED TO INSTALL NEW UTILITIES FOR EXAMPLE, AND WE WILL, UH, MAKE AN OFFER TO THE PROPERTY OWNER UNDER THE THREAT OF CONDEMNATION MOST OFTEN.

AND WE WILL ACQUIRE EASEMENT BY SEPARATE INSTRUMENT.

UH, EASEMENT SIZE ITSELF IS OFTEN DICTATED BY UTILITY CRITERIA MANUALS.

AND SO WE'VE GOT SOME ENGINEERING TYPES THAT ARE ON THE LINE THAT CAN ANSWER ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS, BUT BY AND LARGE, UM, THERE ARE, THERE ARE THESE MANUALS.

AND IF THEY'RE PUTTING IN FOR INSTANCE, A SIX INCH PIPE AND IT IS GONNA BE THIS DEEP IN THE EARTH, THEY LOOK INTO THIS CRITERIA MANUAL, THEY DETERMINE IT NEEDS TO BE A 15 FOOT WIDE EASEMENT AND THAT MORE OR LESS DICTATES THE SIZE OF THAT PARTICULAR EASEMENT, THE LOCATION IS OFTEN DETERMINED BY THE NEED TO SERVE SPECIFIC AREAS, SOLVE PARTICULAR ISSUES AND OR THE NATURAL ENVIRONMENT.

AND THAT'S PROBABLY SELF-EVIDENT IF YOU NEED INSTALL LINES IN A PARTICULAR LOCATION TO SERVE A PARTICULAR SUBDIVISION, FOR INSTANCE, UM, THEY NEED TO GO IN CERTAIN AREAS.

UM, CITY EASEMENTS ARE NOT UNUSUAL OR ATYPICAL.

SO THE RIGHTS WE GET IN, IN SEEKING OUR EASEMENTS ARE VERY MUCH LIKE THOSE SOUGHT BY OTHER GOVERNMENTAL ENTITIES, NOT ONLY IN TEXAS, BUT THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES.

SO THERE'S NOTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT ARCTIC TYPICAL EASEMENTS.

SO TO THE EXTENT POSSIBLE EASEMENTS ARE DESIGNED TO MINIMIZE IMPACT TO DEVELOPMENT, POTENTIAL OF PROPERTIES AND THE EXACTION PROCESS.

THIS HAPPENS KIND OF AS A MATTER OF COURSE, BECAUSE THE DEVELOPER IS INCENTIVIZED TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY LEAVE AS MUCH DEVELOPABLE AREA OPEN AND UNENCUMBERED AS, AS POSSIBLE.

SO THEY ARE LOOKING TO CITE THESE THINGS WHERE THEY CAN MINIMIZE THE IMPACT TO THE, TO THE PROPERTIES DEVELOPMENT POTENTIAL.

WHEN WE ARE ACQUIRING BRAND NEW EASEMENTS, UM, PUBLIC WORKS HAS GOTTEN VERY GOOD OVER THE YEARS OF IN INVOLVING REAL ESTATE, EARLY ON IN THE PROCESS, SOMETIMES DESIGN ENGINEERS, THEIR MOTIVATION IS JUST BASICALLY THE MOST EXPEDIENT ROUTE FROM POINT A TO POINT B.

AND THEY'RE, UH, NOT ALWAYS MINDFUL OF PROPERTY LINES OR IMPACTS TO PROPERTY, BUT WHEN WE ARE AT THE TABLE WITH THEM, WE CAN KIND OF EXPLAIN TO THEM HOW YOU CAN CITE THIS PARTICULAR RESPONSE PROPERTY TO MINIMIZE THAT DEVELOPMENT IMPACT AND, AND THUS MINIMIZE THE COST TO THE CITY FOR ACQUIRING THE EASEMENT.

EASEMENTS CAN OVERLAP IF THE

[00:50:01]

PROPOSED USES, UH, DO NOT TRULY INTERFERE WITH EACH OTHER.

SO, UM, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'VE GOT, FOR INSTANCE, AN OVERHEAD, UH, ELECTRIC LINE EASEMENT, AND YOU'VE GOT A SIDEWALK EASEMENT UNDERNEATH THERE, UM, THOSE CAN COEXIST PEACEFULLY.

THERE'S NOT GONNA BE ANY IMPACT OR, OR REALLY ISSUES WITH THAT.

UM, HOWEVER, IN THAT INSTANCE, IF, SO YOU HAD AN OVERHEAD ELECTRIC EASTMAN WITH POLES AND YOU HAD A STORM SEWER, YOU WOULDN'T WANT THAT RUNNING UNDERNEATH THE POLES, THOSE ELECTRIC LINES.

SO, UM, THAT WOULD BE A MATERIAL INTERFERENCE.

AND SO THAT WOULDN'T BE A GOOD COEXISTENCE.

UM, CURRENT EASEMENT OWNERS CAN PROHIBIT OR DICTATE THE TERMS UPON WHICH NEW EASEMENTS CAN BE ESTABLISHED OR CREATED.

UM, YOU SEE THIS MOST OFTEN FOR INSTANCE, WITH PIPELINE, UH, EASEMENTS, UM, YOU GOT A TRILLION PIPELINE COMPANY.

UM, IF YOU WANT TO CROSS THEIR EASEMENT, THEY ARE THERE ENTITLED BEFORE WE ARE.

SO THEY HAVE SUPERIOR RIGHTS TO US.

SO WE NEED TO ACCOMMODATE THEIR CONCERNS AND THEIR REQUIREMENTS.

THEY MIGHT WANT SOME KIND OF CERTAIN BARRIERS BETWEEN WHAT WE'RE INSTALLING, WHAT THEY'RE INSTALLING OR MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE CROSSING THEM PERPENDICULAR RATHER THAN RUNNING PARALLEL WITH THEM, WHICH IF THEY'VE GOTTA WORK ON THEIR LINE COULD BE AN ISSUE WITH, UH, ACCESSING THEIR PARTICULAR LINE.

UH, THE LOCATIONS AND TYPES OF BUSINESS CAN IMPACT THE DEVELOPMENT OF POTENTIAL PROPERTY.

UM, THAT MAY GO WITHOUT SAYING, BUT, UH, THE CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING LIKE THAT WOULD BE A CONSERVATION EASEMENT, WHICH, UH, DEVELOPMENT IS STRICTLY LIMITED OVER A PARTICULAR PROPERTY.

SO, UM, BUT EASEMENTS CAN IMPACT THE VALUE.

UM, NOT ONLY JUST THE TYPE OF EASEMENTS, BUT ACTUALLY HOW THEY'RE LOCATED ON THE PARTICULAR PROPERTY.

UM, THE CITY DOES EMPLOY MEASURES TO LIMIT THE IMPACT OF THE DEVELOPMENT POTENTIAL OF PRO OF EASEMENTS ON PROPERTY.

FOR INSTANCE, UH, WE ACQUIRE SUB TRAINING IN EASEMENTS, WHICH MEANS BASICALLY WE FORGO ANY SURFACE RIGHTS.

SO WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU ACQUIRE AN EASEMENT, UH, YOU CAN THINK OF IT AS BASICALLY BEING ABLE TO CONTROL FROM THE CORE OF THE EARTH, TO THE HEAVEN ABOVE.

UM, SO FOR THE PARTICULAR USE THAT WE'RE ACQUIRING THAT EASEMENT.

UH, BUT WHEN WE GET A SUB TRAINING EASEMENT, WE BASICALLY ARE, ARE RATHER THAN, UM, GETTING, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT HEAVEN TO EARTH, UM, RIGHT.

WE ARE ACTUALLY PUTTING A FLOOR AND A CEILING ON OUR USE AND WE ARE ACQUIRING A VOLUME OF SOIL THROUGH THE EARTH.

AND SO IF WE NEED TO ACCESS THAT PARTICULAR LINE, WE'VE GOTTA DO THAT IN DESIGNATED LOCATIONS RATHER THAN ANYWHERE WE'D WANT TO ACCESS THAT LINE TO TRENCH DOWN, SO TO SPEAK.

SO WE DO THAT.

WE ALSO NOTCH OUT EASEMENTS.

IF WE ARE GOING CLOSE TO AN EXISTING IMPROVEMENT, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S AN EVE OR AN OVERHANG OR SOMETHING, WE WILL ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, NOTCH AROUND AND WE'LL HAVE AN EASEMENT WITH A LITTLE, YOU KNOW, TOOTH IN IT OR SOMETHING TO BASICALLY MAKE SURE THAT THAT STRUCTURE IS CLEAR OF THAT EASEMENT.

UM, AND KIND OF ALONG WITH THAT, THE EASEMENT AREAS ARE DEFINED.

AND SO OUR ABILITY TO CONTROL THE USE THE, THE PROPERTY IS REMAINING USED TO THAT