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HERE.[CALL TO ORDER]
EVENING EVERYONE.I AM YOUR HUMBLE CHAIR OF THE AUSTIN ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION, AND I CALL THE ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION MEETING TO ORDER.
IT IS SEPTEMBER 28TH, IS THAT CORRECT? YEAH.
WE'RE IN CITY HALL BOARDS AND COMMISSION.
ROOM NUMBER 1, 1 0 1 AT 3 0 1 WEST SECOND STREET, AUSTIN, TEXAS SEVENTY EIGHT SEVEN HUNDRED ONE.
I WILL CALL THE ROLE COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS. PRESENT.
COMMISSIONER UCA IS NOT HERE YET.
UH, COMMISSIONER LAURIE WILL BE ABSENT, I BELIEVE.
AND COMMISSIONER GREENBERG HERE.
AND THEN VICE CHAIR KALE PRESENT.
UH, AND COMMISSIONER DANBURG WILL BE ATTENDING VIRTUALLY THIS EVENING.
UM, I DON'T BELIEVE, AH, I'M GONNA RECOGNIZE THAT SECRETARY STANTON HAS JUST JOINED US.
UM, SO, UH, I DO NOT BELIEVE, UH, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, UM, WE HAVE ANYONE SIGNED UP FOR PUBLIC COMMUNICATION, CORRECT? CORRECT.
IN THAT CASE, WE CAN ROLL INTO OUR AGENDA, UM, SINCE WE ARE EXPECTING ONE MORE COMMISSIONER TO JOIN US.
UH, AND SINCE OUR RULES ARE PRETTY CLEAR ABOUT NOT STARTING, UH, HEARING OR NOT HAVING A HEARING BEGIN, LET ME BACK UP.
THE RULES ARE PRETTY CLEAR ABOUT A COMMISSIONER NOT BEING ABLE TO PARTICIPATE IN A HEARING HALFWAY THROUGH.
UM, I WOULDN'T WANT TO HAVE HER COME HALFWAY THROUGH, UH, WHEN WE ARRIVE TO THAT AGENDA ITEM.
SO, IF IT IS OKAY WITH EVERYONE HERE, I WANTED TO GO A LITTLE BIT OUT OF ORDER, UH, FROM OUR AGENDA, UH, WITH ONE OF
[5. Adopt a regular meeting calendar for 2023.]
TWO THINGS.I THINK I'M GONNA FIRST TALK ABOUT OUR CALENDAR FOR THE COMING YEAR.
THAT IS IN YOUR AGENDA PACKET.
SO THESE ARE THE DATES FOR 2023.
AND AS YOU CAN SEE, THEY ARE, UH, LIKE THIS PAST YEAR, THEY'RE HEAVILY LOADED ONTO THE FOURTH WEDNESDAY OF A MONTH.
UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT GUARANTEES OUR PRESENCE HERE AT CITY HALL OR IF THAT'LL TAKE US, UM, TO FAR FLUNG CITY PROPERTIES.
UH, BUT, UM, THIS IS OUR CALENDAR.
UM, I'M HAPPY TO PASS THEM OFF TO, UM, OUR EXECUTIVE LIAISONS, PLURAL, UM, OR STAFF LIAISON.
UH, ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? YES.
ARE YOU LEAVING THIS COMMISSION IN 2023
WELL, PREEMPTIVELY THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE, COMMISSIONER MCCORMICK
UM, ANY, UH, ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR, UH, ANY NOTES ON OUR CALENDAR? YES.
UH, SO LYNN CARTER WITH THE LAW DEPARTMENT, I WILL JUST COMMENT THAT THOSE OF YOU THAT ROLL OFF IN FEBRUARY, WE WOULD LOVE FOR YOU TO STAY ON UNTIL YOUR REPLACEMENT IS NAMED.
AND YOU CAN DO THAT THROUGH SOME DATE THAT WE WILL GIVE YOU IN APRIL.
WE'LL HOLD ON TO YOU AS LONG AS WE CAN.
ANY, ANY COMMENTS ON OUR CALENDAR FOR 2023? ALL RIGHT, THEN I'M HAPPY TO ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ADOPT OUR CALENDAR FOR 2023.
THE CALENDAR, SECRETARY STANTON, UH, MOVES TO ADOPT OUR CALENDAR SECOND AND SECOND FROM COMMISSIONER LOVENS.
I WILL SAY ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, RAISE YOUR HAND AND I WILL COUNT YOU SEE LOVENS WILLIAMS, MCCORMICK GREENBERG,
[00:05:01]
SECRETARY STANTON, MYSELF.AND THEN VIRTUALLY I SEE VICE CHAIR KALE AND COMMISSIONER DANBURG.
BARRING OUR ABSENCES OF, UH, COMMISSIONER TE YUCA AND COMMISSIONER LAURIE.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, COMMISSIONERS.
[3. Staff briefing regarding ways the public can access to the Austin Utilities Now newsletters in Spanish (en español).]
ON.UM, WE HAVE AS AGENDA ITEM NUMBER THREE, UH, STAFF BRIEFING REGARDING THE WAYS THAT THE PUBLIC CAN ACCESS CITY OF AUSTIN UTILITIES NOW NEWSLETTERS IN SPANISH.
UM, TO BRIEF US ON THAT, UH, I BELIEVE WE HAVE SUSAN AND SUSAN FROM THE, FROM THE CITY OF AUSTIN, FROM AUSTIN ENERGY.
UM, I WILL PASS IT OFF TO YOU FOR THAT BRIEFING.
UM, WHICHEVER ONE OF YOU WOULD LIKE TO BEGIN PRESENTING.
WELL, I WILL GO AHEAD AND START.
MY NAME IS SUSAN KIMMEL LINES.
I AM THE MANAGER OF THE UTILITY MARKETING SERVICES GROUP AT AUSTIN ENERGY.
IN ADDITION TO SUPPORTING AUSTIN ENERGY, WE ALSO PROVIDE SUPPORT TO COA UTILITIES.
THAT'S BASICALLY, UM, THE ONLINE VERSION OF THE UTILITY CUSTOMER CARE GROUP, UH, THAT INTERACTS WITH THE PUBLIC.
WE PROVIDE SUPPORT THROUGH THE AUSTIN UTILITIES NOW NEWSLETTER THROUGH, UH, A BROAD, UM, ANNOUNCEMENT OF, UH, VARIOUS CITYWIDE COMMUNICATIONS, INCLUDING, UM, RATES AND FEES FOR ALL CITY DEPARTMENTS, WHICH IS PART OF OUR CHARTER.
AND, UM, OTHER INFORMATION THAT MAY PASS THROUGH ON WARNING CITIZENS OF SCAMS, ET CETERA.
UM, SUZANNE FLOYD IS WITH ME THIS EVENING, AND I'M EXPECTING SUZANNE TO CHIME IN, UM, IF I BEGIN WANDERING OFF DOWN A PATH OR GIVE ANY KIND OF INFORMATION THAT'S NOT CLEAR.
SUZANNE, DO YOU JUST WANT TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF QUICKLY? HI, EVERYONE.
UH, I AM ON SUSAN'S TEAM, UH, AT AUSTIN ENERGY, AND I SERVE AS A MARKETING, UH, LIAISON FOR COA UTILITIES, UH, AND THE, THE BILL ONLINE BILLING, UH, ONLINE CUSTOMER CARE AND BILLING SYSTEM.
SO LET ME GIVE YOU AN OVERVIEW FIRST OF, UM, THE COA UTILITIES.
THE BILL AND THE ASSOCIATED AUSTIN ENTERED THE NOW NEWSLETTER.
THE, UM, COA UTILITIES IS PRINTED IN, THE BILL IS PRINTED IN ENGLISH AND ALSO SPANISH.
UH, SEVERAL YEARS AGO WE STARTED PROVIDING THE OPTION FOR A SPANISH NEWSLETTER WITH THE ENGLISH VERSION OF THE NEWSLETTER.
WE AUTOMATICALLY INCLUDE THE AUSTIN UTILITIES.
NOW INFORMATION IN THE ENGLISH VERSION WITH THE SPANISH VERSION OF THE BILL.
WE DO NOT YET INCLUDE THE SPANISH NEWSLETTER, BUT SUZANNE AND I ARE CURRENTLY WORKING ON THIS.
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE IDENTIFIED SOME MONTHS AGO, MAYBE A YEAR AGO, THAT IT WAS LACKING, AND WE DID NOT HAVE THAT.
WE HAVE APPROXIMATELY 10,000 CUSTOMERS THAT HAVE REQUESTED THE SPANISH LANGUAGE BILL.
UM, AND WE HAVE A MAIL LIST OF ABOUT 400 CUSTOMERS THAT ARE AUTOMATICALLY RECEIVING THE AUSTIN UTILITIES NOW NEWSLETTER IN SPANISH.
THOSE TWO ARE SHIPPED SEPARATELY.
SUZANNE AND I ARE WORKING TO CREATE A PROCESS WITH OUR CUSTOMER CARE UTILITY CUSTOMER CARE FOLKS TO STREAMLINE THAT PROCESS.
SO, JUST LIKE WITH THE ENGLISH BILL WHERE THE AUSTIN UTILITIES NOW IS AUTOMATICALLY SENT WITH THE BILL IN ENGLISH, WE ARE GOING TO PUT A, UH, PROCESS IN PLACE THAT ALLOWS US TO DO THE SAME WITH THE SPANISH LANGUAGE.
BILL, ANY QUESTIONS ON THAT SO FAR? OKAY.
SO LIKE I SAID, CURRENTLY WE HAVE A GAP BETWEEN THE 10,000 THAT ARE RECEIVING OUR NEWSLETTER IN SPANISH AND THE 400 THAT ARE RECEIVING THAT NEWSLETTER THROUGH A SEPARATE MAIL LIST.
TYPICALLY HOW THEY'VE GOTTEN ON THAT MAIL LIST IS THEY WILL CALL, UH, THREE ONE ONE, OR THEY WILL CALL THE COA UTILITIES CUSTOMER CARE PHONE NUMBER TO GET ADDED TO THAT.
THAT INFORMATION COMES OVER TO MY TEAM AND WE MANAGE THAT LIST.
UM, I'M REALLY TROUBLED BY THE GAP BETWEEN THE 10,000 AND THE 400.
SO, LIKE I SAID, THIS HAS BEEN SOMETHING THAT SUZANNE AND I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON MAYBE FOR A YEAR TO BEGIN IMPROVING THAT PROCESS.
ONE THING THAT WE ARE PUTTING INTO PLACE IMMEDIATELY IS TO PROVIDE THE SPANISH LANGUAGE, AUSTIN UTILITIES NOW TO LIBRARIES, TO OUR WALK-IN CENTERS, THE BILL PAYMENT CENTERS, TO OUR REC CENTERS THROUGHOUT THE CITY.
WE CURRENTLY DO THIS WITH THE ENGLISH VERSION AND TO, UH, CITY HALL.
UM, THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE STAND RIGHT NOW ON THE SPANISH LANGUAGE NEWSLETTER.
AND I'VE LIGHTLY ADDRESSED YOUR OPT IN, OPT OUT
[00:10:01]
IF, IF WE ARE ABLE, AND I THINK WE WILL BE WHEN WE ARE ABLE TO MOVE OVER TO THE AUTOMATIC, UM, SPANISH LANGUAGE NEWSLETTER GOING IN WITH THE BILLS.THERE WILL BE NO NEED TO OPT IN, OPT OUT.
IT WILL BE AN AUTOMATIC PROCESS WITH THE THE BILL PAYMENT, THE BILL MAILING.
ANOTHER THING I'D LIKE TO ADD ONTO THAT IS WE HAVE A VERY ROBUST COA UTILITIES WEBSITE THAT ALREADY AUTOMATICALLY INCLUDES ELECTRONIC VERSIONS OF BOTH ENGLISH AND SPANISH NEWSLETTERS, AND ALSO ALL OF OUR OTHER PERTINENT, UH, RIGHTS AND FEES.
UM, SCAM INFORMATION, ET CETERA.
ON THAT SITE, IT IS COA UTILITIES.COM QUESTIONS, SUZANNE, IS THERE ANYTHING YOU'D LIKE TO ADD? UM, YOU, YOU COVERED THE FACT THAT IT IS AVAILABLE ONLINE, SO THAT WAS ONE THING I WAS GOING TO EMPHASIZE.
SO THANK YOU FOR, FOR COVERING THAT.
UM, I WOULD JUST SAY THAT, UH, IT IS, YOU KNOW, AS YOU POINTED OUT IS IT IS A PROCESS THAT IS IN THE WORKS.
THERE ARE SEVERAL VENDORS, UH, INVOLVED.
UH, SO I, I DON'T HAVE A TIMEFRAME AT THIS POINT THAT TO, TO GIVE.
HOWEVER, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, WE, WE CAN, UH, WE ARE WORKING TOWARDS THAT AND HAVE BEEN FOR SOME TIME.
ANOTHER ELEMENT I'D LIKE TO ADD ALSO, OR ONE OTHER THOUGHT IS WE HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THIS INDEPENDENCE OF ANY CONVERSATIONS OR KNOWING OF ANY CONVERSATIONS THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN GOING ON WITH THE THIS COMMISSION.
SO LIKE I SAID, IT'S A PRIORITY FOR SUZANNE AND MYSELF AND ALSO FOR COA UTILITIES.
WELL, THANK YOU FOR THAT BRIEFING.
I THINK, UH, SECRETARY STANTON HAD A QUESTION.
THANK YOU FOR THIS INFORMATION.
UM, I JUST HAVE TWO QUESTIONS.
THE FIRST ONE IS, CAN YOU REPEAT WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT THE OPT-IN? I, I MISSED A LITTLE BIT OF THAT? ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY.
SO ONCE WE PUT THIS PROCESS IN PLACE WHERE WE ARE ABLE TO PRINT AND SHIP THE CO THE AEN NEWSLETTER, AUSTIN UTILITIES NOW NEWSLETTER WITH THE SPANISH LANGUAGE BILL, THAT WILL BE AN AUTOMATIC PROCESS.
THERE WILL BE NO OPT IN OR OPT OUT REQUIREMENT BEYOND CITIZENS RE REQUESTING A SPANISH LANGUAGE BILL.
THAT'S THE ONLY THING THEY'LL NEED TO DO, IS TO REQUEST THAT BILL AND THEY WILL AUTOMATICALLY GET THE NEWSLETTER IN SPANISH WITH THAT BILL.
SO RIGHT NOW, OR DO WE, RIGHT NOW, DO WE HAVE THE AUSTIN UTILITIES NOW NEWSLETTER? THIS IS A NEW CIRCULAR GOING INTO YEAH, WE'VE BEEN, WE'VE BEEN PRINTING THE NEWSLETTER IN ENGLISH AND SPANISH FOR YEARS.
I JOINED AUSTIN ENERGY COA UTILITIES, UM, EIGHT YEARS AGO, AND IT WAS ALREADY A WELL ESTABLISHED PROCESS.
WE HISTORICALLY PRODUCE OUR COLLATERAL AND MATERIALS IN ENGLISH, IN SPANISH, AND THEN ON FOR SPECIAL NEEDS OR FOR EXPANDED NEEDS, WE WILL PRODUCE OTHER COLLATERAL AND DOCUMENTATION IN OTHER LANGUAGES, BUT SPANISH AND ENGLISH ARE OUR PRIMARY LANGUAGES.
AND I APOLOGIZE, I'M STILL NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE OPTIN IS FOR.
SO CURRENTLY, IF PEOPLE WANT TO RECEIVE A SPANISH LANGUAGE NEWSLETTER, THEY HAVE TO CALL EITHER THREE ONE ONE OR THE COA UTILITIES, UH, CALL IN NUMBER.
THAT'S THE ONLY WAY THEY CAN BE ADDED TO THE LIST TO RECEIVE THE SPANISH LANGUAGE NEWSLETTER.
THAT IS ALSO THE ONLY WAY THEY CAN RE RECEIVE A SPANISH ONLY BILL.
SO THEY DO HAVE TO CALL, SORRY ABOUT MY CAP.
THEY DO HAVE TO CALL AND, UH, REQUEST TO, TO RECEIVE A SPANISH LANGUAGE BILL.
WHAT I'M SAYING IS, IN THE FUTURE, ONCE WE GET THIS, THIS PROCESS IN PLACE, AND WE'RE STILL NOT SURE HOW LONG THAT'S GOING TO TAKE, UH, WE WORK FOR THE CITY AND WE HAVE A LOT OF VENDORS THAT WE HAVE TO WORK THROUGH CONTRACTS AND PROCESSES, BUT I'VE GOT A SENSE OF URGENCY TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN.
ONCE WE ARE ABLE TO HAVE THAT PROCESS IN PLACE WHERE WE'VE GOT THE BUNDLING OF THE SPANISH BILL AND THE BUNDLING OF THE, WHAT CAN I SAY? I OWN ANIMALS.
THEY'RE ALL RESCUES
NOW, THERE WILL BE NO NEED FOR OPT IN, OPT OUT, BUT CURRENTLY IF THEY WANT TO RECEIVE ONE OR THE OTHER, THEY DO HAVE TO CALL 3 1 1 OR THEY HAVE TO CALL THE, UH, CUSTOMER CARE CENTER TO BE ADDED IN.
ONCE THEY'RE ADDED INTO THAT, THEN MY TEAM HANDLES THE, UM, SPANISH LANGUAGE AUSTIN UTILITIES NOW, AND WE HAVE ANOTHER PROCESS FOR THE BILL.
SO THE DEFAULT, ONCE YOU GET THIS BUNDLE, THE DEFAULT WILL BE JUST GETTING ENGLISH AND SPANISH.
[00:15:01]
ENGLISH OR SPANISH? YOU DON'T HAVE TO.IF YOU CALL UP AND YOU SAY, I WANT, UH, A SPANISH BILL, THAT'S THE ONLY CUT OF BILL I WANT, THEN YOU'LL AUTOMATICALLY BEGIN RECEIVING THAT.
AND ALSO THE AUSTIN UTILITIES NOW SPANISH LANGUAGE VERSION.
SO THE NA THE NATURAL DEFAULT IS FOR THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE.
SO PEOPLE ARE A CUSTOMER AND THEY DON'T SPECIFY, WHICH THEY'LL AUTOMATICALLY RECEIVE THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE VERSION.
AND THEN MY SECOND QUESTION, AND I'M SURE OTHER COMMISSIONERS CAN GUESS THIS QUESTION, UM, IS THERE A PLAN TO INCLUDE A THIRD LANGUAGE? AND I THINK JUST TRYING TO, UM, TRYING TO, UM, BE CONSISTENT ACROSS THE BOARD.
AND THIS IS WHERE I'M COMING FROM THIS, UH, SENSE OF CONSISTENCY.
UM, AND I THINK WE HAVE A PILOT COMING UP FOR VOTER REGISTRATION AND, AND CANDIDATE FORUMS TO BE AVAILABLE IN A THIRD, UM, LANGUAGE.
I THINK IT'S, IS IT CHINESE? CHINESE? IT'S, IT'S LIKELY SIMPLIFIED CHINESE THE PRINTING OF THIS.
AND SO MY QUESTION IS, ARE THERE PLANS TO MAKE THE AUSTIN UTILITIES NOW NEWSLETTER ALSO AVAILABLE IN CHINESE? AND CERTAINLY, UM, TIMELINE, YOU KNOW, THERE ISN'T AN URGENCY, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT THERE'S A PLAN FOR INCLUDING THAT SINCE WE RECOGNIZE THAT AS THE THIRD, UM, UH, MOST COMMON PREDOMINANT LANGUAGE, RIGHT? YES.
UM, SO ACTUALLY THERE IS NOT AT THIS POINT, BUT I WILL SAY, SUZANNE, DID YOU WANNA JUMP IN ON THAT? WELL, I, I DID, I DID, UH, HAVE SOME, SOME COMMENTARY ON THIS.
UM, RIGHT NOW, THE, THE DATABASE THAT AUSTIN ENERGY OR THE CITY OF AUSTIN UTILITIES USES DOESN'T HAVE A LANGUAGE CHOICE.
WE OFFER SPANISH, AND THEN PEOPLE WHO WANT ENGLISH BILLS AND OR ENGLISH A UNS CAN OPT IN.
OTHERWISE, WE DON'T, WE DON'T USE CORRECTION PEOPLE AUTOMATICALLY ENGLISH BILL AND THEY CAN OPT IN WHEN THEY TALK TO US TO GET THE SPANISH.
I DIDN'T MEAN TO CAUSE CONFUSION.
UH, BUT THE POINT THAT, THAT I WAS TRYING TO GET TO IS WE DON'T HAVE AN IDENTIFIER IN OUR DATABASE RIGHT NOW FOR PEOPLE WHO, UH, SPEAK CHINESE OR WOULD WANT TO RECEIVE AN AEN AND CHINESE.
SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD NEED TO SOLVE FOR.
THAT'S ALL I WANTED TO POINT OUT IS JUST THAT THAT WOULD ALSO BE AN OPT-IN PROCESS.
WE WOULD NEED PEOPLE TO SELF-IDENTIFY AS SOMEONE WHO WANTED TO RECEIVE THE A UN UH, IN CHINESE.
UH, IF WE CREATED THAT, WHAT WHAT CAN WE DO TO RECOMMEND THAT OR TO URGE YOU TO, TO DO THAT AS AGAIN, TO TO ALIGN WITH WHAT'S ALREADY BEEN RECOGNIZED AS THE THIRD MOST COMMON LANGUAGE HERE IN AUSTIN.
AND IT'S BEEN RECOGNIZED AS SUCH BY, UM, YOU KNOW, LEGAL, UH, UM, WOMEN VOTERS.
AND, UM, SO I WOULD JUST LIKE TO, AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I WOULD, I PERSONALLY WOULD CHAMPION ACROSS THE BOARD IN OUR, YOU KNOW, IN OUR CITY, IS IF WE RECOGNIZE THAT CHINESE IS THE THIRD MOST COMMON LANGUAGE IN AUSTIN, WHY WOULD WE NOT MAKE SURE, ENSURE THAT SERVICES THAT WE PROVIDE IN SPANISH WOULD ALSO APPLY AND, AND BE AVAILABLE IN THE THIRD MOST COMMON LANGUAGE IN OUR CITY? ABSOLUTELY.
SO THERE'S AB THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON THAT COULD NOT HAPPEN GIVEN OUR ABILITIES.
UM, THERE ARE OTHER FACTORS THAT WILL COME INTO PLAY ON THAT, YOU KNOW, INCLUDING CAUSE BUDGET, BLAH, BLAH BANDWIDTH, UH, MANPOWER SEPARATING FROM THAT.
I WOULD SAY THAT WE DO CREATE MATERIALS IN MULTIPLE LANGUAGES.
WE HAVE DONE THAT BEFORE, AND LIKE I SAID, ENGLISH AND SPANISH FOR OUR FALL BACK LANGUAGES, BUT FOR UNIQUE OR SPECIAL CONSIDERATIONS, RECOMMENDATIONS WE HAVE CREATED IN OTHER LANGUAGES, IF THE REQUEST COMES INTO US, IT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT WE CAN MAKE HAPPEN.
UM, I, AT MY DECISION LEVEL, I'M NOT THE ONE TO SAY, HEY, LET'S START DOING THIS, AND WE'RE WE'LL DO IT NOW.
UM, OBVIOUSLY, AND I HATE TO SAY THIS, THAT'S NOT AT MY PAY GRADE
I, I, GOING BACK TO WHAT SUZANNE HAD SAID, IT MIGHT NOT BE FEASIBLE FOR AUSTIN UTILITIES.
NOW IF OUR ONLY MESSAGE REVOLVES AROUND, WE WANT THEM TO
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KNOW ABOUT THE CANDIDATE FORUM, THERE MAY BE OTHER WAYS THAT WE CAN ADDRESS THAT THROUGH OTHER COMMUNICATION MECHANISMS THAT WE KNOW HOW TO USE OR WE KNOW HOW TO ACCESS.UM, AND, AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT IF I WERE SITTING DOWN WITH THE PERSON REQUESTING CHINESE, OR SIMPLIFIED CHINESE AS WE NEED TO CONTACT THIS, THIS POPULATION, THEN I WOULD BEGIN ASKING ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS TO TRY AND DISCOVER THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO GET THE MESSAGE OUT TO THIS TARGET AUDIENCE.
AND LIKE SUZANNE HAD ALSO REFERENCED, WE DON'T HAVE WITH CERTAINLY WITHIN THE DATABASE FOR OUR BILLS OR FOR AUSTIN UTILITIES NOW, WE DO NOT HAVE, UH, A LANGUAGE DIFFERENTIATOR UNLESS THEY SPECIFICALLY ASK FOR SPANISH.
UM, SO THAT OPENS UP OTHER DOORS ON, ARE THESE QUESTIONS THAT HAVE TO BE ASKED? ARE THERE AREAS THAT NEED TO BE EXPLORED? SO I, I KNOW I'M TALKING, THROWING A LOT OF THOUGHTS OUT THERE, BUT LOOKING AT HOW DO YOU SOLVE A PROBLEM IN GETTING SPECIFIC INFORMATION OUT TO A PARTICULAR GROUP IN A CERTAIN LANGUAGE? THERE ARE A LOT MORE QUESTIONS THAT I WOULD BEGIN ASKING ON, UH, WHAT IS IT THAT WE'RE TRYING TO TELL THEM? WHAT DO WE WANT TO SAY? HOW DO WE REACH THEM? UM, AND WE HAVE THE MECHANISMS TO GO OUT AND IDENTIFY AS BEST WE CAN WITHOUT SAYING WHAT LANGUAGE DO YOU WANT? UH, WE DO HAVE MECHANISMS TO LOOK AT THE DEMOGRAPHICS IN CERTAIN AREAS, UM, CERTAIN ZIP CODES, UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT FEEDBACK IS COMING FROM COMMUNITY OUTREACH IN PARTICULAR AREAS AND BEGIN TO, UH, RESPOND TO IT IN THAT WAY.
FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAVE OTHER PROGRAMS, CERTAINLY WITHIN AUSTIN ENERGY, WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW BEST TO REACH UNDERSERVED AUDIENCES WITH INFORMATION ABOUT OUR PARTICULAR PROGRAMS. AND SEVERAL OF THOSE AUDIENCES HAVE A LANGUAGE OTHER THAN ENGLISH AS THEIR FIRST LANGUAGE.
SO THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.
HOW DO WE CREATE COMMUNICATIONS THAT ARE APPEALING TO THAT PARTICULAR AUDIENCE AND DELIVER A MESSAGE THAT IS EFFECTIVE WITH THAT PARTICULAR AUDIENCE? AND WHAT MECHANISMS DO WE USE? THOSE ARE A LOT OF WORDS, AND I HAVE TALKED AROUND THIS QUITE A BIT, BUT I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, UM, YOUR, YOUR QUESTION IS ANSWERED.
WELL, THANK, I WANT TO THANK YOU, UH, FOR THE BRIEFING, AND I DON'T WANT TO, I DIDN'T WANT TO INTERRUPT, UH, THAT LAST QUESTION JUST TO ACKNOWLEDGE, UM, THAT, UH, YOU'RE, YOU'RE KIND OF DOING THIS A FAVOR BY SHOWING UP BECAUSE THE, UH, THE EXTENT OF OUR AUTHORITY AT THE ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION ONLY GOES SO FAR.
UM, PRECISELY BECAUSE YOU CIRCULATE INFORMATION ABOUT OUR CANDIDATE FOR HIM, WHICH WE DO AFTER JURISDICTION OVER.
UM, I WANT TO, UH, BUT I DO WANT TO MAKE SURE TO TAKE A MOMENT TO THANK YOU FOR, UH, YOUR WORK IN MAKING IT MORE ACCESSIBLE TO AT LEAST A SPANISH SPEAKING POPULATION.
AND I KNOW THAT CONVERSATIONS, UH, MOVING FORWARD ABOUT HOW WE CAN BETTER SERVE, UM, OTHER LANGUAGE COMMUNITIES IN AUSTIN.
UH, IT'S GOOD TO HEAR THAT YOU'RE VERY RECEPTIVE TO THOSE CONCERNS AS WELL.
COMMISSIONERS ARE THERE, ARE THERE ANY OTHER, UH, COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? NO.
WELL, THANK YOU SUSAN AND SUZANNE, THANK YOU SO MUCH.
UM, WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND, UH, WE WILL BE IN TOUCH IF WE HAVE ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS.
YOU ARE MOST WELCOME, AND I HAVE A WONDERFUL EVENING.
UM, SO THERE ARE A FEW OTHER ITEMS ON OUR AGENDA.
I THINK, UM, I WILL ASSUME THAT COMMISSIONER 10 YUCA MAY NOT BE ABLE TO JOIN US QUITE ON TIME, WHICH, UM, LEAVES, UH, WE COULD
[APPROVAL OF MINUTES]
MOVE ON TO OUR MINUTES.SO LOOKING AT JULY 27 MINUTES, I HAVE THREE AMENDMENTS AND ONE SUGGESTION, UM, LET ME GET THE SUGGESTION OUT OF THE WAY SINCE, UH, WE'LL COME UP.
UM, IT SHOWS UP FIRST, IT'S A PUNCTUATION CONVENTION.
IT'S NOT AN URGENT THING, BUT THE, I'VE NOTICED THAT IN THESE SET OF MINUTES, AS WELL AS IN THE AUGUST SET OF MINUTES, THERE IS A COLON USED AFTER THE WORD COMMISSIONERS.
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ATTENTION TO TWO, THREE, THE FOURTH PARAGRAPH WHERE IT READS, COMMISSIONERS IN ATTENDANCE REMOTELY, AND THEN COMMISSIONERS, AND THEN A COLON.AGAIN, JUST THE SUGGESTION THAT WE NOT USE THAT SECOND COLON AND JUST SO THAT IT READS COMMISSIONERS AND THEN THE COMMISSIONER'S NAMES.
DOES THAT SUGGESTION MAKES SENSE? I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT.
UM, I WOULD NOT, UM, I'M NOT GONNA BE HEARTBROKEN IF THE MOTION DOES NOT INCLUDE THAT SUGGESTION AT ALL.
JUST WANTED TO PROVIDE THAT FEEDBACK.
THERE ARE THREE AMENDMENTS THAT I'M OFFERING.
UM, THE FIRST ONE IS, GOSH, THE SECOND PAGE.
UM, THE SECOND FULL PARAGRAPH THAT STARTS THERE WAS CONTINUED DISCUSSION ON THE ITEM FROM THE COMMISSION.
SECOND SENTENCE, THE MOTION TO AMEND THE CODE WITH THE CURRENT RECOMMENDATION AS IS.
UM, I WOULD LIKE THAT AS IS TO HAVE A HYPHEN.
THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS IN THE SAME SENTENCE WITH DIFFERENT LETTERING WAS APPROVED ON COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS MOTION.
THERE SHOULD BE AN APOSTROPHE AFTER THE S MM-HMM.
LIKE, GOSH, DO YOU PUT AN APOSTROPHE AND THEN ANOTHER S, BUT, UM, JUST FOR CLARITY'S SAKE, SO THAT IT, IT'S NOT THE, BECAUSE THE COMMISSIONER'S NAME IS WILLIAMS, NOT WILLIAM.
SO PUT APOSTROPHE AFTER THE S AND, AND NO AND NO SECOND S I'LL DEFER TO COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS ON THAT.
WHAT WOULD YOU USUALLY DO? EITHER WAY THEY DIDN'T HAVE JUST TO ONE APOSTROPHE AFTER THE S.
THE, THE CLEAREST WAY THAT I WOULD RECOMMEND IS JUST NOT YOUTH APOSTROPHE TO SAY WAS APPROVED ON MOTION BY COMMISSIONER AND THEN THE NAME, AND THEN THAT CONVENTION APPLIES WHETHER THERE'S AN S IN THAT PERSON'S NAME OR NOT.
UM, BUT THE EASIEST FOR RIGHT NOW IS TO PUT THE APOSTROPHE AFTER THE S.
AND THEN THE FINAL AMENDMENT UNDER NUMBER FIVE, UM, LET'S SEE HERE.
SECRETARY STANTON AND COMMISSIONER 10 Y OF VOLUNTEER TO BE ON THE WORKING GROUP.
UM, IT'S WITH THE SECOND SENTENCE, THE MOTION TO CREATE THE WORKING GROUP TO PREPARE CALENDAR, COMMISSION DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES, NOT CO-CHAIRED BY SECRETARY STANTON AND COMMISSION ATTEND YUCA, BUT WITH MEMBERS, SECRETARY STANTON AND COMMISSION ATTEND YUCA ONLY BECAUSE I SAW THAT IN THE AUGUST MINUTES AND IN OTHER MINUTES, UM, IT MEMBERSHIP IS NOT REFERRED TO AS CHAIRED OR CO-CHAIRED.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? I THINK, AND I WAS WONDERING WHY THIS ONE SPECIFICALLY SAID CO-CHAIRED AS OPPOSED TO JUST WE, WE ARE THE MEMBERS OF THIS WORKING GROUP, CUZ IN THE AUGUST MINUTES, THERE'S A, THERE ARE TWO WORKING GROUPS THAT WERE FORMED MM-HMM.
I THINK, UH, PERFECTLY FINE TO SAY, UM, COMPOSED OF AS OPPOSED TO CO-CHAIR BY YES.
UM, THAT COULD HAVE BEEN, UH, AN OFFHAND, UM, REMARK ON MY PART THAT GOT INCORPORATED INTO THE MINUTES, UM, IS MAYBE THE MOST PLAUSIBLE EXPLANATION YEAH.
UM, AND THAT IS IT, AS FAR AS THE AMENDMENT, SO THERE ARE THREE AMENDMENTS AND ONE SUGGESTION.
AND YOU'LL FIND THAT CONVENTION OF THE COLON AFTER COMMISSIONERS THROUGHOUT THE DOCUMENT.
WELL, I, UM, I AM FINE WITH THOSE SUGGESTIONS PERSONALLY.
ANY DISCUSSION, UM, THEN THERE OVER HIM? YES.
SO, UM, I JUST WANTED TO ASK, I HAVE A QUESTION, SORT OF A PROCEDURAL QUESTION.
I'M WONDERING IF THERE'S A WAY, PROCEDURALLY THAT SOME OF THIS TYPE OF, UM, ATTENTION TO DETAIL AND THE MINUTES COULD BE DONE PRIOR TO THE MEETING JUST TO SAVE, YOU KNOW, TO SAVE OUR GROUP TIME, UM, ONCE WE GET HERE.
[00:30:01]
TO OUR EXECUTIVE LIAISONS ABOUT THAT, UM, AS THE VERY SENIOR MEMBER AND ONE WHO'S BEEN AROUND DOING THIS FOR A HUNDRED YEARS MM-HMM.SO THEY DO NOT HAVE TO BE PERIOD DOT THIS AND THIS, AS LONG AS THEY HAVE THE IDEA AND IT'S CORRECT.
SO, UH, BECAUSE WE ARE AGENDAS TO POTENTIALLY ADOPT THE MINUTES AND NOT TALK ABOUT THE PROCEDURE SURROUNDING HOW WE CREATE MINUTES OR CHANGE MINUTES, I'M GONNA ASK FOR A MOTION.
I SEE A MOTION FROM COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, UM, THAT BOTH WERE THOSE, THE CHANGES FOR BOTH SETS OF MINUTES OR JUST THE JULY, JULY, I BELIEVE.
MOVE TO ACCEPT THE JULY MINUTES WITH THE SUGGESTION AND AMENDMENTS AS DESCRIBED.
AND I WILL SECOND THAT MYSELF.
UM, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF ADOPTING THE JULY MINUTES.
OH, I WILL COUNT HANDS AND NAMES FOR THE SAKE OF TIME.
I SEE VICE CHAIR, KALE, COMMISSIONER DANBURG, COMMISSIONERS, LEVINS WILLIAMS, MCCORMICK GREENBERG, SECRETARY STANTON, AND MYSELF UNANIMOUS WITH TWO ABSENCES FROM COMMISSIONERS, TEKA AND LAURIE.
MOVING ON TO OUR AUGUST MINUTES.
SO AUGUST 24TH MINUTES, THE SAME FEEDBACK ITEM AGAIN, IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE A PART OF THE MOTIONS.
JUST FEEDBACK ON THAT, UH, CONVENTION OF USING THE COLON AND NO AMENDMENTS FOR THE AUGUST 24TH MINUTES.
THEN I WILL MAKE THE MOTION TO ADOPT THE AUGUST 24TH MINUTES WITH THE SUGGESTION REGARDING THE COLON, UM, INCORPORATED.
THAT'S MY MOTION SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER GREENBERG.
I BELIEVE I WILL DO THE SAME THING.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR RAISE HANDS AND I WILL START COUNTING VICE CHAIR KALE COMMISSIONERS, DANBURG, LOVENS WILLIAMS, MCCORMICK GREENBERG, SECRETARY STANTON, AND MYSELF UNANIMOUS WITH OUR TWO ABSENCES AT THE MOMENT.
UH, AND THANK YOU EVERYONE ELSE FOR WAITING TO GET TO WHAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN AGENDA ITEM NUMBER ONE.
UH, I BELIEVE THAT VICE CHAIR KALE IS RECUSING FROM AGENDA ITEMS ONE AND TWO.
UM, SO, UH, VICE CHAIR, KALE, YOU'RE EXCUSED AT THIS POINT.
UM, IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO, UH, LEAVE, I THINK, UH, I DON'T BELIEVE THERE ARE ANY OTHER ITEMS ON THE AGENDA THAT ARE GONNA REQUIRE A VOTE.
SOMEONE CAN CORRECT ME IN THIS IF I'M WRONG.
UM, I WOULD HATE TO DEPRIVE YOU OF FURTHER PARTICIPATION CHAIR.
CAN YOU CLARIFY? I DON'T SEE ITEM ONE.
UH, ITEM ONE ISN'T ON THE TABLE OF CONTENTS, BUT ITEM ONE IS A EXECUTIVE SESSION PROCEEDING.
IT'S ON A TOP, IT'S ON THE AGENDA.
UH, IT IS EXECUTIVE SESSION, UH, BEFORE WE CONSIDER THE PRELIMINARY HEARING.
UM, IN THAT CASE, WE'RE GONNA TAKE YES, I HEARD, I HEARD, I HEARD A VOICE ON THE SPEAKERS.
UM, MR. CHAIR, THIS IS LESLIE PADILLA, THE COMPLAINANT.
ON THIS AGENDA ITEM, HAD I HAD ONE UHHUH WAIT, IT KEEPS SWITCHING ME TO, TO UNMUTE FOR SOME REASON.
UM, I JUST WANTED, CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW? YES.
I'LL WATCH THIS BUTTON TO MAKE SURE.
I JUST WANTED TO, UM, NOTE THAT I ONLY RECEIVED THE, UM, RESPONDENT SUBMISSION, UH, THAT HAD BEEN MADE TO THE, UH, COMMISSION, UM, I THINK ON AUGUST 24TH.
SO THAT'S WHAT IT'S DATED ABOUT, UH, THREE HOURS AGO.
AND WELL, I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE, UM, STAFF'S EFFORTS, UM, IN GIVING ME THAT TODAY.
I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO REVIEW IT.
SO WHEN WE GET TO THAT AGENDA ITEM, UM, I'M, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE AN OPENING STATEMENT, UM, AT WHICH POINT YEAH, AND THIS WAS A,
[00:35:01]
SO WE'VE NOT, THIS WAS ONLY A PRELIMINARY MATTER.THIS IS NOT AN OPENING STATEMENT, IT'S JUST A PRELIMINARY MATTER.
UM, AND, AND I APPRECIATE YOU WANTING TO GIVE US THAT INFORMATION.
UM, BUT THE, UH, SINCE WE DON'T, WE HAVE A PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD AT THE BEGINNING OF OUR MEETING, UM, I, I'M MORE THAN HAPPY TO TAKE THAT INFORMATION ONCE WE GET TO THAT AGENDA ITEM.
BUT WE ARE, WE'RE AN AGENDA ITEM LIMBO.
UM, COMMISSIONER TEK WITH US, I'M GONNA RECOGNIZE THAT SHE'S JOINED US VIRTUALLY.
UM, SO MS. PADILLA, WHAT I'LL, I'LL EXPLAIN TO YOU, UH, KIND OF HOW THINGS ARE GOING TO GO, UM, FROM THIS POINT ON.
SO WHEN I TAKE UP AGENDA ITEM ONE, THAT WILL BE OUR GOING INTO AN EXECUTIVE SESSION.
SO WE ARE GOING TO LEAVE THIS ROOM FOR THOSE OF US THAT ARE HERE PHYSICALLY.
AND THOSE THAT ARE JOINING US VIRTUALLY ARE GONNA LOG INTO THE EXECUTIVE SESSION ZOOM, SO THAT WE CAN CONSULT WITH LEGAL COUNSEL ON LEGAL ISSUES SURROUNDING THIS COMPLAINT IF WE HAVE ANY PARTICULAR LEGAL QUESTIONS.
UM, THEN AGENDA ITEM TWO, WHICH IS GONNA BE THE HEARING ITSELF WILL BEGIN, I'LL READ A FEW, UH, PREPARATORY REMARKS ABOUT WHAT'S IN STORE FOR THE PRELIMINARY HEARING AND THE RULES, UM, AT WHICH POINT WE'LL HAVE 10 MINUTES FOR EACH PARTY TO GIVE A STATEMENT.
UM, AND AT THAT POINT, YOU'LL BE RECOGNIZED TO GIVE US WHATEVER INFORMATION YOU NEED TO GIVE US, INCLUDING ANY COMPLAINTS THAT YOU HAVE ABOUT WHEN EVIDENCE WAS DELIVERED TO YOU.
UM, AND THAT'LL BE THE APPROPRIATE TIME.
THANKS YOU, I APPRECIATE THAT.
UH, YES, COMMISSIONER GREENBERG.
WELL, IT'S JUST THAT IF THE, UM, RESPONSE ONLY CAME THREE HOURS AGO AND THE, UM, THERE'S PERHAPS GONNA BE A SUGGESTION TO POSTPONE BECAUSE OF THAT LATE, MAYBE WE SHOULDN'T EVEN GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION WITHOUT LETTING HER FINISH WHAT SHE WAS GOING TO SAY.
NEITHER CAN I, BUT I ALSO DON'T WANT TO, UH, SET A PRECEDENT THAT, UM, TO LET PARTIES AND HEARINGS AND COMPLAINTS BEFORE THE COMMISSION SPEAK, UH, WHEN IT'S NOT THE APPROPRIATE TIME TO DO SO.
OTHERWISE, I'M, I'M SETTING A PRECEDENT THAT PARTIES CAN INTERJECT WITH COMPLAINTS OUT OF TURN WHEN OUR RULES AND PROCEDURES SAY WHEN THAT CAN HAPPEN.
IF IT MEANS WE GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION FOR 30 MINUTES ONLY TO COME BACK AND HEAR AN OPENING STATEMENT WHERE WE SEE THAT THERE'S A NECESSITY TO POTENTIALLY POSTPONE, SO BE IT.
AND WITH THAT, WITHOUT OBJECTION, I'M GONNA READ MY SCRIPT TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION IF I CAN.
[EXECUTIVE SESSION]
THE ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION WILL GO INTO CLOSED SESSION TO TAKE UP ONE ITEM PURSUANT INTO SECTION 5 5 1 0.07, ONE OF THE TEXAS GOVERNMENT CODE.THE ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION WILL CONSULT WITH LEGAL COUNSEL ON LEGAL ISSUES RELATED TO THE FOLLOWING.
THE COMMISSION MAY GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION TO DISCUSS A COMPLAINT FILED BY LESLIE PADILLA AGAINST KATIE GERALD COYLE, EXCUSE ME, WITH ALLEGED VIOLATIONS OF CITY CODE CHAPTER FOUR DASH EIGHT, REGULATION OF LOBBYISTS, SECTION FOUR DASH EIGHT DASH THREE, REGISTRATION REQUIREMENTS IN SECTION FOUR DASH EIGHT DASH 14, CRIMINAL PENALTY IN VIOLATION OF SUBSECTION C OF SECTION TWO DASH ONE DASH 21, ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS AND REMOVAL.
IS THERE ANY OBJECTION TO GOING INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION ON THE ITEMS ANNOUNCED? HEARING AND SEEING NONE FROM MY VIRTUAL COMMISSIONERS? UH, THE COMMISSION WILL NOW GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION.
THE TIME IS SIX, NOPE, 6:55 PM WE'LL PAUSE THE RECORDING.
SO WE ARE OUT OF CLOSED SESSION.
THE TIME IS 8:12 PM IN CLOSED SESSION.
WE TOOK UP AND DISCUSSED LEGAL ISSUES RELATED TO A COMPLAINT FILED BY LESLIE PADILLA AGAINST KATIE GERALD COIL, WHICH ALLEGES VIOLATIONS OF CITY CODE SECTION FOUR DASH EIGHT DASH THREE AND FOUR DASH EIGHT DASH ONE, AND VIOLATION OF SUBSECTION C OF SECTION TWO DASH ONE DASH 21.
[2. A complaint filed by Leslie M. Padilla against Katie Jarl Coyle, raising claimed violations of City Code Chapter 4-8 (Regulation of Lobbyists), Section 4-8-3 (Registration Requirements), and Section 4-8-14 (Criminal Penalty), and violation of Subsection (C) of Section 2-1-21 (Eligibility Requirements and Removal).]
BRINGS US TO AGENDA ITEM TWO, AND THAT IS A PRELIMINARY HEARING ON THAT COMPLAINT.SO I'M GOING TO GO THROUGH, UH, WHAT HAPPENS IN THIS HEARING.
FIRST, I'D LIKE TO START JUST TO GET CONFIRMATION THAT THE PARTIES ARE PRESENT, SO STARTING WITH THE COMPLAINANT BEFORE YOU START.
UH, BEFORE I START ACTUALLY, UM, UH, JUST, UH, FOR PURPOSES OF GETTING OUR CONFLICTS OF INTEREST SETTLED, UM, COMMISSIONER TE YUKA, COULD YOU, UH, SAY WHETHER OR NOT YOU HAVE A
[00:40:01]
CONFLICT OF INTEREST ON THIS AGENDA ITEM? I HAVE NO CONFLICTS OF INTEREST.UM, THEN WITH THAT, I AM GOING TO TURN TO THE PARTIES.
SO STARTING WITH THE COMPLAINANTS, IF YOU COULD PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE COUNSEL.
UH, STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE COMMISSION, AND THEN COUNSEL FOR THE COMPLAINANT.
INTRODUCE YOURSELF AS WELL, IF THERE IS A COUNSEL FOR THE COMPLAINANT.
UM, I AM THE COMPLAINANT IN THIS MATTER.
AND FOR THE RESPONDENT, PLEASE STATE WHO IS PRESENT, INCLUDING THE IDENTITY OF THE COUNCIL OF RECORD.
HI, MY NAME IS KATIE JAR, AND I'M HERE
HI, UH, ANDREW KATE'S, COUNCIL FOR THE RESPONDENT.
SO, I'M GONNA DESCRIBE THE PROCEEDING.
THIS IS A PRELIMINARY HEARING PURSUANT TO SECTION TWO S SEVEN S FOUR FOUR OF THE AUSTIN CITY CODE.
THE ORIGINAL COMPLAINT WAS FILED ON JUNE 30TH, 2022.
COMPLAINANT ALLEGED RESPONDENT VIOLATED CITY CODE SECTIONS FOUR DASH EIGHT DASH THREE FOUR DASH EIGHT DASH 14, AND SUBSECTION C OF TWO DASH ONE DASH 21.
THE ISSUE AT THIS PRELIMINARY HEARING IS WHETHER REASONABLE GROUNDS EXIST TO BELIEVE THAT A VIOLATION OF CITY CODE OF A CITY CODE PROVISION OCCURRED WITHIN THE JURISDICTION.
THE ISSUE AT THIS PRELIMINARY HEARING IS WHETHER REASONABLE GROUNDS EXIST TO BELIEVE THAT A VIOLATION OF CITY CODE PROVISION WITHIN THE JURISDICTION OF THIS COMMISSION HAS OCCURRED FOR CLAIMED VIOLATIONS OF FOUR DASH EIGHT.
THE COMMISSION MAY HOLD ONLY A PRELIMINARY HEARING AND MAY NOT HOLD A FINAL HEARING.
SUBSECTION B OF CITY CODE SECTION TWO DASH SEVEN DASH FIVE STATES FURTHER THAT QUOTE, THE COMMISSION SHALL REFER AN ALLEGATION FOR WHICH THE COMMISSION FINDS A REASONABLE BASIS TO BELIEVE THAT THERE MAY BE A VIOLATION TO THE CITY ATTORNEY FOR PROSECUTION.
THE COMMISSION'S REGULAR PRACTICE IS TO GIVE EACH OF THE PARTIES 10 MINUTES TO PRESENT THEIR POSITIONS AT A PRELIMINARY HEARING ON A COMPLAINT, UNLESS ADDITIONAL TIME IS NECESSARY.
DO THE PARTIES AGREE THAT 10 MINUTES IS SUFFICIENT OR WOULD THEY REQUEST ADDITIONAL TIME? I'LL START WITH THE COMPLAINANT.
10 MINUTES IS SUFFICIENT FOR ME.
THE COMPLAINANT HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO STATE THE CLAIMED VIOLATIONS AND DESCRIBE IN NARRATIVE, FORM, THE TESTIMONY AND OTHER EVIDENCE THAT SUPPORTS THOSE CLAIMS. THE RESPONDENT IS NOT REQUIRED TO RESPOND OR MAKE ANY STATEMENT AT THIS HEARING.
THE RESPONDENT MAY PROVIDE A RESPONSE DIS RESPONSE, DISPUTING THOSE CLAIMS. WHILE STATEMENTS MADE AT THIS PRELIMINARY HEARING ARE UNDER OATH, NO CROSS EXAMINATION IS ALLOWED AFTER THE PARTIES COMPLETE THEIR PRESENTATIONS, MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION MAY ASK QUESTIONS OF THE COMPLAINANT OR RESPONDENT, NO WITNESSES.
OTHER PARTIES OR THEIR COUNSEL ARE PERMITTED TO MAKE STATEMENTS AT THIS PRELIMINARY HEARING OUTSIDE OF THE 10 MINUTE OPENING STATEMENTS AND ANSWERS TO DIRECT QUESTIONS.
FOLLOWING THE PRESENTATION OF THE PARTIES, THE COMMISSION MAY CHOOSE TO RETURN TO EXECUTIVE SESSION TO RECEIVE LEGAL ADVICE AND COUNSEL IF IT'S NECESSARY.
AND FOLLOWING ANY SUCH ADDITIONAL EXECUTIVE SESSION, THE COMMISSION WILL VOTE IF SIX MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION VOTE TO DETERMINE THAT THERE ARE REASONABLE GROUNDS TO BELIEVE THAT A VIOLATION OF THE CITY CODE WITHIN OUR JURISDICTION HAS OCCURRED, THE COMMISSION WILL REFER THE ALLEGATION AS PROVIDED BY APPLICABLE LAW TO THE APPROPRIATE LAW ENFORCEMENT AUTHORITY.
IF SIX MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION DO NOT VOTE IN SUPPORT OF A DETERMINATION THAT THERE ARE REASONABLE GROUNDS TO BELIEVE THAT A VIOLATION WITHIN OUR JURISDICTION HAS OCCURRED, THE ALLEGATION WILL NOT BE REFERRED AND THE COMPLAINT WILL BE DISMISSED.
UH, I WILL BRIEFLY ASK, ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT I HAVE LAID OUT? OKAY.
THEN WITH THAT, UM, I AM GOING TO, UH, LET YOU KNOW THAT IT WILL BE SECRETARY STANTON WHO IS GOING TO BE KEEPING TIME, UM, FOR THESE 10 MINUTE STATEMENTS.
UM, UH, MS. PADILLA, WHAT I'LL DO IS I'LL ASK HOW YOU WOULD LIKE, UH, IF YOU WOULD LIKE ANY KIND OF, UH, WARNING OR HEADS UP THAT YOU'RE GETTING CLOSE TO A 10 MINUTE MARK.
UM, IF YOU WOULD LIKE US TO ALERT YOU AT THREE MINUTES OR ONE MINUTE, UM, WANT TO SEE WHAT YOUR PREFERENCE IS ON THAT? IF I COULD BE ALERTED AT ONE MINUTE, UH, THAT WOULD BE SUFFICIENT, AND I WOULD APPRECIATE IT.
UM, WHAT WE'LL DO, UM, IF, UH, SO SINCE, SINCE YOU'RE REMOTE, UM, IF YOU'RE IN THE ROOM, WE WOULD JUST GIVE YOU A WAVE OR
UM, LIKELY YOU'LL, YOU'LL HEAR A MICROPHONE TURN ON TO SAY ONE MINUTE.
UM, AND I'LL CHECK WITH THE RESPONDENT, MR. KATES, SIMILAR ONE MINUTE WARNING.
ALL RIGHT, THEN WITH THAT, UM, MS. PADILLA, UM, I WILL LET YOU BEGIN WITH YOUR OPENING STATEMENT.
WHEN YOU START TALKING, UM, SECRETARY STANTON WILL BEGIN THE TIMER, SO WHENEVER YOU'RE READY.
WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. CHAIR AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION.
[00:45:01]
PREVIOUSLY, MY NAME IS LESLIE PADILLA.UM, I INITIALLY, UH, SENT A COMPLAINT, UH, OR A LETTER, I SHOULD SAY, TO THE CITY CLERK COPYING THE CITY AUDITOR AND CITY LEGAL, UH, ABOUT MY CONCERNS ABOUT MS. CHARLES, UH, ACTIVITIES THAT APPEARED TO CONSTITUTE LOBBYING TO ME.
I DIDN'T REALIZE UNTIL AFTER GETTING A, BASICALLY A REJECTION FROM THE CITY CLERK THAT WHAT I NEEDED TO DO TO GET THE CITY TO ACT IN THIS CASE WAS TO SUBMIT A COMPLAINT TO THE ETHICS COMMISSION.
SO I DID THAT, BUT AS THE PRINCIPLE EVIDENCE THAT I SUBMITTED WITH MY COMPLAINT TO THE COMMISSION WAS IN FACT, THE LETTER TO THE CITY CLERK, UH, DATED MAY 24TH, 2022, THAT ATTACHED ABOUT, I THINK ABOUT 170 PAGES OF, UH, MATERIAL THAT I HAD OBTAINED THROUGH A PUBLIC INFORMATION REQUEST.
AND I'LL TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT LONGER.
ACTUALLY, I JUST WANTED TO BACK UP ONE MINUTE.
UM, MR. CHAIR, I DID WANNA APOLOGIZE FOR THE CONFUSION EARLIER.
I DIDN'T WANT TO MAKE ANY COMMENTS ABOUT THIS ONE ISSUE THAT I'M GONNA COMMENT ABOUT RIGHT NOW.
BEFORE THE HEARING STARTED, I THOUGHT THERE MIGHT BE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SAY SOMETHING BEFORE THE ACT, THE PUBLIC HEARING ACTUALLY STARTED.
I DID JUST RECEIVE THE RESPONDENT'S MATERIAL THAT SHE SUBMITTED TO, I GUESS, CITY LEGAL AND TO THE COMMISSION THAT STATED AUGUST 24TH.
I JUST RECEIVED THAT THIS AFTERNOON.
UM, I HAVE HAD SUFFICIENT TIME TO LOOK AT IT, THOUGH.
SO TO MISS THE CONCERN THAT COMMISSIONER GREENBERG RAISED, NO, I DON'T INTEND TO, TO, UM, YOU KNOW, DELAY THINGS, UH, FURTHER, I HAVE HAD SUFFICIENT TIME TO LOOK AT THAT.
UM, SO I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT CLEAR.
UM, WHILE THE CHAIR DID EXPLAIN WHAT THE STANDARD IS HERE TONIGHT, UM, IF THE COMMISSION, UH, YOU KNOW, QUOTE, FINDS A REASONABLE BASIS TO BELIEVE THAT THERE MAY BE A VIOLATION OF THE LOBBYING RULES, UM, IT MUST, AND THE ORDINANCE USES OF THE WORD SHALL, UM, YOU KNOW, FORWARD THIS TO THE CITY'S ATTORNEY FOR PROSECUTION.
THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT, UM, BUCKETS, IF YOU WILL, OF MY COMPLAINT, THOUGH.
THERE ARE EITHER LOBBYING, UH, THE, THE LOBBYING CONCERNS, AND THEN THERE ARE THE CONCERNS ABOUT, UH, MS. CHARLES, UM, UH, PARTICIPATION ON THE, UH, ANIMAL ADVISORY COMMISSION.
UH, I THINK YOU FOLKS PROBABLY KNOW THAT, UM, IN, IN AUSTIN, UH, NO REGISTERED LOBBYIST, UH, CAN BE CONSERVED ON A BOARD OR COMMISSION.
AND I KNOW PRIOR TO, I THINK JANUARY OF 2021, YOU KNOW, KNOW MS. DAR DID NOT WORK FOR APA.
UM, AND AS FAR AS I KNOW, SHE DIDN'T, UH, LOBBY ON BEHALF OF APA.
SO THE, THE THE TIME PERIOD THAT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT IS WHEN SHE STARTED WORKING FOR APA AS A DIRECTOR OF GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS AND POLICY OF AUSTIN PET ALIVE.
UM, AND, UM, CAN I ACTUALLY ASK A QUICK QUESTION? AM I ABLE TO, UH, SH UH, SHARE A SCREEN ON KEY ITEMS FROM MY LETTER OR THE EVIDENCE, OR WILL I JUST NEED TO REFER TO THE PAGE NUMBER, UH, OF THE MATERIAL THAT YOU HAVE? UH, FOR NOW, UM, LET'S REFER TO THE PAGE NUMBER OF THE MATERIAL THAT YOU HAVE.
UM, I WILL LOOK AT CITY STAFF AND SEE IF THEY GIVE ME A SIGNAL ONE WAY OR THE OTHER ON SHARE SCREEN CAPABILITIES.
WELL, I DID WANNA JUST REVIEW A COUPLE, FEW KEY PROVISIONS OF THE, UH, LOBBYING ORDINANCE.
UM, UH, THE DEFINITION OF LOBBY, UM, IS, UH, TO COMMUNICATE DIRECTLY WITH THE CITY OFFICIAL TO INFLUENCE OR PERSUADE THE CITY OFFICIAL TO FAVOR OR OPPOSE, RECOMMENDS NOT RECOMMEND VOTE FOR OR AGAINST, OR TO TAKE ACTION OR REFRAIN FROM TAKING ACTION ON A MUNICIPAL QUESTION.
MUNICIPAL QUESTION IS THEN DEFINED AS, UM, BASICALLY IT'S BOTH MUNICIPAL LEGISLATION OR ANY MATTERS SUBJECT TO AN ACTION OR DECISION BY A CITY OFFICIAL.
AND AS MY LETTER EXPLAINED, THIS IS IMPORTANT IN THIS CASE BECAUSE IN ADDITION TO THE ACTIONS THAT CITY COUNCIL TOOK OVER THE COURSE OF 2021 RELATED TO APA, UM, THE CITY WAS, UH, UH, ALSO, UH, TRYING TO NEGOTIATE, UM, A NEW LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR USE OF TOWN LAKE ANIMAL SHELTER, UM, WITH APA.
SO THAT WOULD ALSO QUALIFY AS AAL QUESTION.
UM, THE KEY, THERE'S A KEY, UH, THRESHOLD HERE FOR WHEN A LOBBYIST, UH, MUST REGISTER.
AND THAT'S 26 HOURS PER IN A CALENDAR QUARTER.
SO IF WE JUST THINK ABOUT THIS, IF THERE'S APPROXIMATELY 12 WEEKS IN A QUARTER, AND THAT'S CONSERVATIVE, THAT'S ONLY A LITTLE MORE THAN TWO HOURS EVERY WEEK THAT SOMEONE WOULD NEED TO LOBBY, UM, IN ORDER TO MEET THE THRESHOLD FOR NEEDING TO REGISTER AS A LOBBYIST.
[00:50:01]
ORDINANCE MAKES CLEAR THAT PREPARATION TIME FOR LOBBYING IS COUNTED IN THAT 26 HOURS.WANTED TO GO BACK TO THE DEFINITION OF LOBBYIST REALLY QUICKLY.
IT, IT, IT CONCERNS AGAIN, IT STATES COMMUNICATIONS WITH A CITY OFFICIAL.
CITY OFFICIAL IS NOT SIMPLY COUNCIL MEMBERS.
IT'S, IT INCLUDES ANY CITY EMPLOYEES.
UH, AND SINCE I BELIEVE COUNCIL MEMBERS, STAFF ARE CONSIDERED CITY EMPLOYEES, YOU KNOW, COMMUNICATIONS WITH, WITH COUNCIL MEMBERS, STAFF, UM, YOU KNOW, MAYBE SWEPT IN, UM, IF YOU'LL GO TO PAGE THOUGHT, IT WAS IMPORTANT TO REVIEW WHAT WAS HAPPENING WITH AUSTIN ALIVE, UH, IN THE CITY OF AUSTIN IN 2021.
UM, IF YOU LOOK ON PAGE TWO OF MY LETTER TO THE CITY CLERK, WHICH IS PROBABLY ABOUT PAGE FIVE OR SIX OF YOUR PACKAGE, UH, THE, UNDER THE HEADING MUNICIPAL QUESTIONS AFFECTING APA IN 2021.
UM, AS I SAID, APA WAS ACTIVELY WORKING ON MULTIPLE MUNICIPAL QUESTIONS, ALL OF WHICH CONCERNED APAS EFFORTS TO NEGOTIATE A NEW LICENSE AGREEMENT, UH, FOR APAS, UH, USE OF CITY OWNED, UH, TOWN LIKE ANIMAL CENTER.
AND I EXPLAINED THE FIRST ONE THAT WAS A RESOLUTION ON MAY 20TH, 2021.
I THINK WHAT, WHAT, WHAT WAS HAPPENING IS APA WAS SEEKING EXTENSIONS OF THE AGREEMENT WHILE THEY CONTINUED TO NEGOTIATE WITH THE CITY REALTOR REALTY OFFICE AND AUSTIN, UH, ANIMAL, UH, CENTER MANAGEMENT.
UM, SO AS THEY PURSUED THESE NEGOTIATIONS, THEY WERE SEEKING EXTENSIONS OF THE CURRENT AGREEMENT TO BASICALLY GET MORE TIME TO PURSUE THEIR INTEREST IN, UH, WHAT THEY WANTED IN TERMS OF A NEW LICENSE AGREEMENT.
UM, SO THAT WAS MAY 20TH, 2021.
THE, IT WAS AN EXTENSION OF THE LICENSE AGREEMENT THAT PASSED ON CONSENT JULY 29TH, 2021.
THERE WAS ANOTHER AGENDA ITEM.
IT DOESN'T, MY LETTERS HAVE FULLY EXPLAINED THIS, BUT I, I, I KNOW BECAUSE I CHECKED LAST NIGHT, THAT WAS ANOTHER AMENDMENT TO THE LICENSE AGREEMENT EXTENDING, I THINK FOR THREE MONTHS THAT WAS APPROVED ON CONSENT.
THERE WERE SEVERAL COUNSEL MEETINGS WHERE THERE WERE EXECUTIVE SECTION ITEMS TO DISCUSS LEGAL ISSUES RELATED TO THE LICENSE AGREEMENT.
AND THEN ULTIMATELY, THERE WAS AN AGENDA ITEM ON NOVEMBER 4TH WHERE APA IN THE CITY HAD HAD RESOLVED THE, UH, NEW LANGUAGE FOR, UM, A NEW LICENSE AGREEMENT.
UM, THANKS TO, AS YOU CAN SEE IN THE DOCUMENTATION THAT I'VE PROVIDED, THANKS TO THEIR INTERVENTIONS WITH MULTIPLE COUNCIL MEMBERS THAT PASSED, UM, ON NOVEMBER 4TH, 2021.
THAT WAS NOT ON CONSENT, BUT I BELIEVE IT WAS UNANIMOUS.
SO THOSE WERE THE MUNICIPAL QUESTIONS CONCERNING APA IN THE COURSE OF 2021.
UM, NOW THE, THE DOCUMENTATION THAT I ATTACHED TO MY LETTER TO THE CITY CLERKS, AS MY LETTER EXPLAINED, ONLY INCLUDED, UH, INFORMATION THAT I RECEIVED, AND IT WAS RECEIVED THROUGH A PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST, UH, BETWEEN, LET'S SEE, JANUARY ONE AND OCTOBER 10TH.
I BELIEVE THAT I MADE THE REQUEST ON OCTOBER 10TH.
SO I ONLY SOUGHT INFORMATION, OBVIOUSLY UP TO THAT POINT.
SO MY REQUEST, THE, THE INFORMATION THAT I RECEIVED CANNOT, YOU KNOW, CANNOT, UH, INCLUDE INFORMATION.
YOU HAVE ONE MINUTE REMAINING TO THOSE MS. PADILLAS LATER MEETINGS OCTOBER 12TH.
SO THERE IS ADDITIONAL, I THINK THERE'S VERY LIKELY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, UH, RELATED TO MS. CHARLES ACTIVITIES.
UM, I WOULD ALSO, UH, NOTE THAT, UM, I MEAN, I'M JUST, I JUST HAVE THE INFORMATION THAT WAS PROVIDED ME THROUGH A PUBLIC REC RECORDS REQUEST.
THERE MAY BE MORE EVIDENCE, UH, OF WHAT MS. CHARLES, UH, LOBBYING ACTIVITIES WERE, DID NOT INCLUDE, UH, INFORMATION RELATED TO COUNCIL MEMBER TOBO.
THAT WASN'T INCLUDED IN MY PIR FOR SOME REASON.
UM, ONE THING THAT I HAD WANTED TO SHARE, AND I THINK I WILL NOT HAVE TIME, AND THIS GOES TO THE CONCERN ABOUT THE ANIMAL ADVISORY COMMISSION.
ONE THING MS. CHARLES SHARED AT SOME POINT WAS INFORMATION ABOUT THE ANIMAL ADVISORY COMMISSION THAT SHE HAD JUST LEARNED THE PREVIOUS NIGHT FOR VIRTUE OF HER SITTING ON THE ANIMAL ADVISORY COMMISSION.
IT'S PROBABLY ONE REASON WHY IT'S NOT A GOOD IDEA FOR WORDS AND COMMISSIONS TO INCLUDE LOBBYISTS.
[00:55:01]
ON BOTH OF MY BOTH FOR LOBBYING AND THE PARTICIPATION ON THE COMMISSION.UM, SO AT THIS TIME, I WILL TURN TO RESPONDENT OR COUNSEL FOR RESPONDENT, UM, FOR THE SAME 10 MINUTES TO MAKE AN OPENING STATEMENT.
I'M GONNA LET MY ATTORNEY SPEAK FOR ME, BUT I JUST WANTED TO INTRODUCE MYSELF.
I KNOW THAT I ALREADY SAID THAT I WAS HERE, BUT MY NAME IS KATIE JAR.
UM, I WISH THAT I COULD SAY IT WAS A PLEASURE BEING HERE THIS EVENING.
UM, BUT I AM ALWAYS, UH, HAPPY TO COME IN AND, UM, YEAH, AND TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT MY WORK AND WHAT I DO.
AND, UH, I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT IT'S DEFINITELY BEEN A ROUGH DAY, BUT, UM, IT WAS REALLY NICE TO SEE SUSAN FROM AUSTIN UTILITY HIGHLIGHT HER RESCUE DOGS.
SO AS A CAREER ANIMAL ADVOCATE, I'M GLAD WE GOT TO SEE SOME RESCUE DOGS, BUT I'LL TURN IT OVER TO MY ATTORNEY FOR THE LEGAL STUFF.
APPRECIATE AND TIME HAS STARTED JUST, YEAH, THAT'S FINE.
UH, YEAH, ANDREW KATES, UM, IT'S GOOD TO SEE A HANDFUL OF Y'ALL AGAIN.
UM, I THINK I'VE SEEN MOST OF Y'ALL AT THIS POINT.
UM, SO, UH, THE COMPLAINANT ACTUALLY LAID OUT, UH, FAIRLY WELL, UM, THE, THE LAW AS IT RELATES TO, UH, THIS COMPLAINT.
I DID WANT TO POINT OUT A COUPLE OF ADDITIONAL POINTS ABOUT THE, THE DEFINITION OF LOBBYING.
UM, IT IS SPECIFIC TO COMMUNICATING DIRECTLY WITH A CITY OFFICIAL OR CITY STAFF.
UM, SO THAT MEANS YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO TAKE A, AN AFFIRMATIVE STEP TO COMMUNICATE YOURSELF NOT BEING COPIED ON AN EMAIL, NOT, UM, YOU KNOW, SOME SOMETHING ELSE.
YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY TAKE THAT STEP YOURSELF AND MAKE THAT COMMUNICATION YOURSELF.
UM, AND IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT BECAUSE YOU KNOW THAT COMMUNICATION MUST BE INTENDED TO INFLUENCE OR PERSUADE THAT PERSON TO TAKE SOME KIND OF ACTION.
WE ARE NOT GONNA SIT HERE AND TRY TO PARSE OUT WORDS AND SAY THAT, WELL, THERE'S NO WAY YOU COULD KNOW WHAT SHE WAS INTENDING WHEN SHE SAID X, Y, OR Z.
YOU CAN FIGURE IT OUT FROM CONTEXT, AND WE'RE NOT GONNA GO THAT FAR INTO INDIAN, INTO ANY OF THIS.
I THINK WE CAN TAKE A REASONABLE PERSON STANDARD AND SAY, YOU KNOW, SHE'S, SHE'S TALKING TO STAFF OVER THERE.
IT'S PROBABLY, SHE'S PROBABLY TRYING TO INFLUENCE THEM.
AND WE'RE GONNA POINT OUT, I, I'LL, I'LL SHOW IN A MINUTE.
UM, THE, THE, THE DOCUMENTS THAT WE SENT TO Y'ALL, UM, WE ACKNOWLEDGE THERE ARE DEFINITELY LOBBYING CONTACTS THAT HAPPENED DURING THIS TIME PERIOD, FOR SURE.
UM, BUT FOR THE REGISTRATION REQUIREMENT, STATUTE OR ORDINANCE DOESN'T PROHIBIT LOBBYING.
IT JUST REQUIRES REGISTRATION.
IF YOU HIT A CERTAIN THRESHOLD, AND THERE ARE REALLY TWO THRESHOLDS.
ONE IS THE COMPENSATION IN HOURS, AND THE OTHER IS IS LOBBY EXPENDITURES.
SO YOU HAD NO LOBBY EXPENDITURES.
UM, AND THE COMPENSATION PART IS $2,000 PER CALENDAR QUARTER.
SHE DEFINITELY MAKES MORE THAN $8,000 A YEAR.
SO LET'S JUST ASSUME THAT SHE'S GETTING PAID ENOUGH, UH, TO HIT THAT COMPENSATION THRESHOLD.
SO REALLY IT COMES DOWN TO 26 HOURS DURING A CALENDAR QUARTER.
UM, DID SHE HIT THAT THRESHOLD OR NOT? THE, UH, COMPLAINANT I HAVE IN MY NOTES HERE, PETITIONER ALL OVER THE PLACE.
I'M GONNA TRY TO NOT MESS THAT UP EVERY TIME.
UH, THE COMPLAINANT CLEARLY REQUESTED ALL THE EMAIL AND CALENDAR RECORDS, UH, THAT MENTIONED MY CLIENT FROM THE CITY OF AUSTIN, AS SHE SAID, IN A PUBLIC INFORMATION REQUEST, AND SUBMITTED THE 200 PLUS PAGES OF RESPONSIVE DOCUMENTS, UM, I THINK AS AN ATTEMPT TO SHOW AN OVERWHELMING AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE THAT, UH, SHE SHOULD HAVE REGISTERED TO LOBBY.
UM, HOWEVER, I DON'T KNOW THAT, I DON'T KNOW IF Y'ALL HAVE READ ALL OF THE EMAILS AND EVERYTHING THAT WERE SUBMITTED HERE.
UM, AND I WENT THROUGH AND I COLLATED THEM BY CONVERSATION TOPIC AND THEN RE COLLATED THEM BY TIMELINE.
AND, UM, THIS SECTION HERE THAT I HAVE SEPARATELY ARE THE NON-RESPONSIVE DOCUMENTS IN THE EMAILS.
SO THEY DON'T MENTION MY CLIENT AT ALL.
THEY DON'T MENTION KATIE, GERALD, THEY DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH HER, OR THEY ARE, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN SEE THIS, THE EMAILS THAT ARE THIS, THIS SMALL THAT YOU CAN'T READ.
UM, AND SO, UH, JUST, YOU KNOW, IF YOU CAN'T READ IT, IT'S JUST NOT GONNA BE NONRESPONSIVE.
I MEAN, JUST WHAT WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US, WE CAN'T READ IT.
UM, THEN I WENT THROUGH THE COMPLAINT AND THE MEMO THAT SHE WROTE TO, UH, THE CITY CLERK.
AND, UH, THE BULLET POINTS SPECIFICALLY, THE BULLET POINTS ARE VERY USEFUL IN THIS CONTEXT, I THINK BECAUSE, UM, AND SHE SUMMARIZES IT VERY WELL, UH, IN HER, IN HER MEMO HERE, ANY OF THEM THAT SAY THAT MR. JAR WAS COPIED ON AN EMAIL IS NOT LOBBYING JUST ACROSS THE BOARD.
IT REQUIRES A DIRECT COMMUNICATION THAT IS NOT LOBBYING ON HER BEHALF.
THAT IS SOMEBODY ELSE COMMUNICATING AND COPYING HER ON AN EMAIL THAT IS 17 OF THE 31 BULLETS IS HER BEING COPIED ON AN EMAIL, NOT ACTUALLY COMMUNICATING HERSELF.
SO THAT LEAVES 14 BULLETS LEFT.
THEN THIS IS WHERE I WANNA SWITCH OVER
[01:00:01]
TO THE SPREADSHEET THAT I GAVE TO YOU ALL.UM, I ACTUALLY ASKED MY CLIENT TO GO A STEP FURTHER.
YOU KNOW, WHAT SHE HAS IN THESE EMAILS IS NOT ALL OF THE LOBBYING THAT HAPPENED DURING THAT TIME PERIOD.
AND I WANTED TO BE AS TRANSPARENT AND UPFRONT AND HONEST AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT WE CAN BE, UM, AND PROVIDE YOU WITH SOME MORE CONTEXT TO WHAT WAS GOING ON.
UM, THAT MAYBE, YOU KNOW, WELL, NOT, MAYBE THAT MS. PADILLA DEFINITELY DIDN'T HAVE THAT YOU ALL DIDN'T HAVE THAT THE CITY DOESN'T HAVE.
UM, AND SO IN THIS SPREADSHEET, UM, AND I THINK I LAID OUT SOME, SOME BULLET POINTS IN THE, IN THE CONVERSATION OR THE, THE DOCUMENT AHEAD OF TIME, BUT ANYTHING IN ORANGE IS FROM MS. CHARLES WORK CALENDAR THAT SHE GAVE ME FULL ACCESS TO.
I WENT THROUGH, I POURED OVER, I ASKED HER QUESTIONS.
I I PULLED EVERYTHING OUT OF IT THAT WAS RESPONSIVE.
ANYTHING IN YELLOW IS A VERIFIED LOBBY CONTACT, UM, IN MY ESTIMATION AS AN ATTORNEY, UM, THAT WAS IN THE DOCUMENTS AND, UH, THAT, THAT MS. PIA PROVIDED.
AND SO, UM, YOU'LL SEE HERE, I MEAN, THERE ARE A LOT OF LOBBY CONTACTS, AND THAT IS TOTALLY FINE UNDER THE CITY ORDINANCE.
YOU CAN HAVE A LOT OF LOBBY CONTACTS, AS LONG AS THEY DON'T ADD UP TO MORE THAN 26 HOURS PER CALENDAR QUARTER, YOU DON'T HAVE TO REGISTER.
AND SO, I MEAN, I, I DON'T WANNA WALK YOU THROUGH ALL OF IT BECAUSE IT'S A LOT OF INFORMATION AND I ONLY HAVE SO MUCH TIME.
I CAN TAKE QUESTIONS WHENEVER.
UM, BUT YOU'LL SEE, I MEAN, I, I BREAK IT DOWN BY QUARTER.
UM, ALL THE GREEN TALLIES ON HERE ON THE, IN THE, WHAT IS THAT FOURTH COLUMN? UM, ADD UP THE TOTALS FOR EACH QUARTER.
UM, YOU KNOW, ON, I CAN'T SEE WHAT LINE THAT IS, BUT OVER IN THE NOTE SECTION I MENTIONED THAT, YOU KNOW, UM, SOME OF THESE EMAILS ARE LOBBY CONTACTS.
IT IS SO HARD, IF NOT IMPOSSIBLE TO ASSIGN A TIME VALUE TO SENDING AN EMAIL, ESPECIALLY IN RETROSPECT.
AND SO I DID, I MEAN, HONESTLY, JUST, I, I GAVE IT MY BEST SHOT AND SAID, IT'S PROBABLY OVERESTIMATING THE TIME, BUT I'M GONNA PUT 15 MINUTES FOR EVERY SINGLE EMAIL THAT IS A VERIFIED LOBBY CONTACT IN HERE, AND JUST ASSUME THAT EVERY ONE OF THEM TOOK 15 MINUTES TO DRAFT.
WE ALL KNOW THAT'S NOT THE CASE FOR EMAILS THAT WE SEND ALL THE TIME, BUT I WANTED TO BE GIVE IT, GIVE IT A HIGH NUMBER AND MAKE IT FAIR AND SEE WHAT THE NUMBERS ADD UP TO.
SO I MEAN, YOU'LL SEE HERE, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, END OF Q1 ONE TOTAL LOBBY HOUR END OF Q2 EIGHT, Q3 15.75.
AND WE DIDN'T END, WE DIDN'T EVEN END Q4 BECAUSE THE LAST OF THE, THE LAST OF THE TIME PERIOD HERE WAS, UH, WAS 11 FOUR, BUT THAT'S THREE 3.75 THAT'S ON THERE.
SO I'M HAPPY TO TAKE QUESTIONS.
I DON'T WANNA TAKE UP ANY MORE OF THE TIME.
UH, DID YOU WANT TO ADD ANYTHING? I'LL JUST ADD SOMETHING VERY QUICKLY.
I TAKE ETHICS LAWS VERY SERIOUSLY.
UM, I HAVE BEEN A REGISTERED TEXAS NONPROFIT LOBBYIST WITH THE STATE OF TEXAS FOR THE LAST DECADE.
UM, I REVIEW THOSE RULES EVERY SINGLE YEAR.
I HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN WORKING ON CITY ORDINANCES AT A VERY SMALL AMOUNT OVER THE LAST 12 TO 15 YEARS AS WELL.
AND I HAVE REVIEWED THAT CODE, THAT CODE AND THAT STATUTE MANY TIMES AND EVERY SINGLE TIME, BECAUSE CITY WORK IS SUCH A VERY, VERY SMALL PART OF MY JOB, AND THE MAJORITY OF MY WORK IS DONE AT THE STATE LEVEL, IT HAS JUST NEVER REACHED THAT THRESHOLD WHERE I KNEW THAT I WASN'T COMING CLOSE TO THOSE HOURS.
AND SO I, I DID WANNA EXPLAIN, IT'S NOT THAT I'M ADVERSE OR OPPOSED TO REGISTERING AS A LOBBYIST.
I'VE DONE SO AT THE STATE LEVEL FOR 10 YEARS, AND I'M HAPPY TO DO IT WHEN CODE INSTRUCTS THAT I, I DO.
SO, SO I GUESS I, I WILL JUST END BY, UM, YOU KNOW, MAKING ME ASK, UH, YOU KNOW, WE'VE LAID OUT THE HOURS WE'VE, WE'VE GIVEN IT, YOU KNOW, I THINK PROBABLY MORE THAN A REASONABLE PERSON, UM, SHOT AT COUNTING IT ALL UP AND PROVIDING MORE THAN WHAT WAS, WHAT WAS PROVIDED BY THE COMPLAINANT TO, TO GIVE EVEN MORE CONTEXT, SHE NEVER HIT THE 26 HOURS.
AND SO WE'D ASK FOR A DISMISSAL.
UH, SO ONE MINUTE REMAINING IF THEY SURE.
UM, SO AT THIS TIME, UH, COMMISSIONERS, IT'S TIME FOR QUESTIONS IF YOU HAVE THEM OF COMPLAINANT OR RESPONDENT, OR REMIND THE PARTIES, UM, TO ONLY RESPOND DIRECTLY TO QUESTIONS ASKED.
[01:05:01]
THAT IS THAT COMMISSIONERS ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS? DO I SEE? OH, COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, GO AHEAD.OKAY, SO YELLOW AND RED, COULD YOU AGAIN EXPLAIN? YES, MA'AM.
YELLOW ARE, UH, FROM THE EMAILS THAT WERE PROVIDED BY THE COMPLAINANT.
UM, THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE ONES THAT, THAT, AFTER TALKING WITH MY CLIENT, WE VERIFIED YES, I SENT THAT EMAIL.
THAT WAS WITH CITY STAFF OR WITH A CITY COUNCIL MEMBER OR WHATEVER.
AND THAT IS, UM, IN OUR ESTIMATION THAT THAT'S A LOBBY CONTACT THAT SHE WAS DIRECTLY COMMUNICATING, UM, AT THAT TIME.
ANYTHING IN ORANGE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT COLOR IT COMES THROUGH ON Y'ALL'S, BUT, UM, ANYTHING IN THE DARKER COLOR YES.
UM, IS FROM HER CALENDAR, HER WORK CALENDAR, THAT WAS NOT IN ANY OF THESE DOCUMENTS.
AND DID YOU TRY BLOWING UP THE EMAILS THAT YOU SAY ARE TOO SMALL? I MEAN, ON A PIECE OF PAPER YOU CAN'T READ THEM, BUT YOU CAN ON A COMPUTER.
UM, AND IT'S A SIMPLE ONE FOR THE COMPLAINANT.
UH, YOU, YOU HAD MENTIONED THAT YOU FELT COMFORTABLE THAT YOU HAD SOME TIME TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT, UH, SUBMISSION WAS.
THAT WAS DATED AUGUST 24TH, THIS SPREADSHEET AND THE BULLET POINTS.
I JUST WANTED TO SEE IF YOU HAD ANY, ANY SPECIFIC COMMENTARY ON IT.
AND WITHOUT HAVING SOME ADDITIONAL TIME TO REVIEW IT AND COMPARE IT TO ALL OF THE INFORMATION THAT I OBTAINED THROUGH MY PIR, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S COMPLETE.
I MEAN, UH, EIGHT OF THE, I'M SORRY.
ARE THERE 10 OR NINE OR 10 COUNCIL MEMBERS IN AUSTIN? UM, ANYWAY, I DID NOT RECEIVE, UH, ANY INFORMATION RELATED TO, UM, UH, COUNCIL MEMBER TOKS.
I BELIEVE THAT WAS NO MISSION FOR MY TIAR.
UM, ALSO, YOU KNOW, IF ANYONE'S DONE PUBLIC RECORDS REQUESTS, I MEAN, THERE'S NO GUARANTEE THAT THIS WAS A COMPLETE SUM TOTAL, UH, DOCUMENTATION.
I'M HAVING TO RELY ON INFORMATION THAT I GOT FROM A PUBLICATION REQUESTED DOCUMENT, UM, POSSIBLE LOBBYING ACTIVITIES.
UM, SO WHAT, WHAT ALSO, WHAT A BIG LIMITATION OF, OF THIS, OF THIS CHART IS THAT IT DOESN'T INCLUDE PREPARATION TIME FOR LOBBYING.
THERE IS, THERE ARE, UH, SEVERAL PIECES OF, UM, SEVERAL EMAILS, UH, IN THE PACKAGE THAT YOU'VE RECEIVED THAT, THAT CLEARLY SHOW THAT MS. CHARLES PREPARED MATERIAL THAT WAS SENT TO COUNCIL MEMBERS.
SO THAT'S CLEARLY PREPARATION.
WELL, I'M NOT GONNA SAY CLEARLY THAT, THAT SEEMS TO ME TO BE PREPARATION FOR LOBBYING.
SO THAT IS NOT ACCOUNTED FOR HERE.
UM, IF THERE WERE PHONE CALLS, I DIDN'T RECEIVE ANY, UH, RE UH, RESPONSES TO MY PIR ABOUT PHONE CALLS.
BUT IF THERE WERE PHONE CALLS TO COUNCIL MEMBERS OR THEIR STAFF, UH, ABOUT, UH, THE MUNICIPAL QUESTIONS THAT WOULD BE LOBBYING.
SO I, I, I DON'T THINK THIS IS, UH, ANYWHERE NEAR A COMPLETE RECORD OF WHAT, UM, UH, MS. CHARLES'S LOBBYING ACTIVITIES MAY HAVE INCLUDED.
UM, UH, ONE, UH, I'LL GET TO COMMISSIONER MCCORMICK IN A SECOND.
I DO HAVE A QUESTION FOR RESPONDENT, UM, CUZ IT WAS A QUESTION THAT I HAD AS TO, UH, THE ACCOUNTING THAT THE SPREADSHEET, UH, DEMONSTRATES TO WHETHER OR NOT PREPARATION TIME WAS FACTORED IN.
AND SO YOU'LL SEE IN THE NOTES, THERE ARE A COUPLE OF SPOTS ON HERE WHERE, UH, LET'S SEE THE, ACTUALLY THE FIRST TWO NOTES, UM, SHOWING THAT THE, THE, THE STATEMENTS MADE IN HERE WERE IN ACTUALLY INCORRECT.
UM, ALSO THE ONE, THE NOTE, THE, ACTUALLY THE FINAL NOTE, UH, ON THE RIGHT SIDE, UM, SAYING THAT THESE ARE INCORRECT, THAT SHE ACTUALLY DIDN'T PREPARE THOSE RESPONSES.
UM, AND ALSO, UM, THE CALENDAR EVENTS ARE THE PREPARATION TIME THERE.
THEY'RE NOT ONLY MEETINGS, THOSE ARE ALSO MEETINGS TO DEVELOP TALKING POINTS AND, AND THAT SORT OF THING.
I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT IN HERE WITH, YOU KNOW, MEETING AT THE CITY OF AUSTIN MEETING, UH, WITH THE JUNIOR GROUP PLANNING MEETING, ALL OF THAT.
THOSE ARE ALL PREPARATION TIME MEETINGS.
THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT THOSE ARE.
COMMISSIONER MCCORMICK, MY QUESTION IS TO, UH, MS. PADILLA, WHEN YOU'VE SUBMITTED YOUR REQUEST FOR FREEDOM OF INFORMATION OR INFORMATION, DID YOU ASK FOR A SPECIFIC TOPIC OR JUST ANYTHING FROM MRS. GERALD, UM, MR. CHAIR AND, AND COMMISSIONER? UH, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
AND I DON'T, I DON'T SPECIFICALLY RECALL, TO BE HONEST.
[01:10:01]
COULD CHECK AND VERIFY.I MEAN, I HAVE ACCESS TO MY, UH, REQUEST, BUT ACTUALLY I, I, I CAN DO SO WHILE, WHILE THIS MEETING IS IN PROGRESS, WELL, MY TELL YOU MY EXACT REQUEST, IF THAT'S, IF THAT'S WOULD BE HELPFUL.
WELL, YEAH, BECAUSE IT WOULD DEPEND ON HOW MANY YOU GET AND WHAT INFORMATION THAT YOU GOT.
THAT'S WHY WERE YOU ASKING FOR A SPECIFIC TOPIC FOR AUSTIN PETS ALIVE OR THE COMMISSION OR JUST ANYTHING THAT MRS. J HAD DONE? I, NOW THAT I, I'M THINKING ABOUT THIS.
I DO REMEMBER MR. CHAIR AND COMMISSIONER THAT IT, IT WAS BROAD BECAUSE I DID RECEIVE SOME INFORMATION THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT I, THAT I EXCLUDED FROM MY, UH, SUBMISSION TO, UH, TO THE CITY CLERK'S OFFICE THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, SEEMED TO HAVE NO, UH, RELEVANCE AT ALL.
AND, UH, YOU KNOW, EVEN SOME OF THE MATERIAL THAT I RECEIVED, UM, WAS, FOR EXAMPLE, IS, IS A, IS, UH, IS A, UH, AN INVITATION TO VISIT APA, FOR EXAMPLE, UM, OUTSIDE OF THE CONTEXT OF A, A SPECIFIC REQUEST TO SPEAK ABOUT THE LICENSE AGREEMENT.
IS THAT, IS THAT LOBBYING? UM, YOU KNOW, THE RESPONDENT'S COUNCIL WOULD SAY NO, BECAUSE IT'S NOT A DIRECT COMMUNICATION, UH, WITH CITY OFFICIAL.
UM, BUT I, SOME OF THAT WAS INCLUDED TOO.
SO, SORRY TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION THOUGH.
IT, MY REQUEST WAS A BROAD, UH, WAS BROAD ABOUT COMMUNICATIONS TO AND FROM, UH, CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS OR THEIR STAFF.
AND IT WASN'T JUST LIMITED TO MS. JAR TOO.
I ALSO INCLUDED, UM, UH, ELLEN JEFFERSON, UH, THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF ATA.
IT WOULD HELP US TO KNOW IF THERE WAS A SPECIFIC TOPIC SINCE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT TIME, AND IT WOULD HELP US TO KNOW WHAT YOU HAD ASKED FOR.
I BELIEVE IT WAS VERY BROAD, BUT I WILL CONFIRM RIGHT NOW.
I QUESTIONS FOR THE COMPLAINANT.
UM, FIRST OF ALL, I HOPE YOU CONSIDER THIS A COMPLIMENT AND NOT AN INSULT BECAUSE I AM A RETIRED ATTORNEY.
BUT ARE YOU AN ATTORNEY
DANBURG, YOU ARE REALLY, REALLY DETAILED AND WELL PREPARED, AND I DO CONSIDER THAT A COMPLIMENT.
UM, MY QUESTIONS ARE, HAVE, DO YOU HAVE OR AND HAVE YOU PRESENTED TO US ANY EVIDENCE OF THE HOURS SPENT OR THE PAY RECEIVED? OR MAYBE, MAYBE IT WAS VOLUNTEER, MAYBE IT WAS, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THAT WASN'T, WASN'T, UM, COMPREHENSIVE COMPREHENDIBLE, BUT HAVE YOU PRESENTED TO US EVIDENCE OF THE HOURS SPENT OR THE PAY RECEIVED BY MS. GERALD COYLE IN HER ROLE AS THE DIRECTOR OF GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS AND POLICY FOR AUSTIN PETS ALIVE? OKAY.
COMMISSIONER DANER, I DID NOT ATTEMPT TO, UM, TALLY, UH, A A NUMBER OF HOURS.
UM, BUT AS MS. UH, AS MS. CHARLES, UM, UH, UH, UH, COUNSEL JUST NOTED, I MEAN, ON THE, ON THE THRESHOLD, UH, MONETARY AMOUNT, THEY, THEY ACKNOWLEDGED THAT SHE HAS MET THAT THRESHOLD, UM, ON THE 26TH HOUR PER QUARTER THRESHOLD.
UM, I DID NOT ATTEMPT TO TALLY, I KIND OF ASSUMED THAT AS DIRECTOR OF GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS AND POLICY OF APA WITH CONSIDERABLE, UH, APPEARANCES, UH, OF APA BEFORE THE CITY COUNCIL OVER THE COURSE OF 2021.
AND THE DOCUMENTATION THAT I'VE PROVIDED TO YOU, AND THAT ONLY WENT UP TO OCTOBER 10TH, REMEMBER, THAT SEEMED TO ME JUST ON THE FACE OF IT, UM, WOULD CONSTITUTE 26 HOURS A WEEK.
BUT I DID NOT ATTEMPT A, UH, AN ACTUAL TALLY, NO.
WELL, MY CONCERN, MY CONCERN WITH THAT IS BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T PRESENTED, AND THEREFORE, SINCE THE BURDEN'S ON YOU FOR US TO GO FORWARD, SINCE YOU HAVEN'T PRESENTED EVIDENCE OF THE HOURS OR PAY RECEIVED IN HER OFFICIAL ROLE, DO YOU HAVE EVIDENCE, HAVE YOU PRESENTED EVIDENCE OF THE NUMBER OF HOURS SPENT OUTSIDE OF THAT ROLE AS
[01:15:01]
THE DIRECTOR OF GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS AND GOVERNMENTAL POLICY AT PETS ALIVE AND, AND THE HOURS SPENT SPECIFICALLY LOBBYING AS OPPOSED TO ANSWERING QUESTIONS, GIVING INFORMATION, GETTING COPIED ON EMAILS? OR DO YOU HAVE ANY EVIDENCE, YOU DIDN'T CLAIM THIS, BUT DO YOU HAVE ANY EVIDENCE OF EXPENDITURES OVER $500 A QUARTER? UH, COMMISSIONER EMBERG ON THAT LAST POINT, I DID NOT MAKE ANY ALLEGATIONS ABOUT EXPENDITURES OVER $500 PER QUARTER.UM, AND, AND AGAIN, I I, EVERYTHING THAT I INCLUDED IN MY COMPLAINT, I, I BELIEVE I'M LIMITING IT TO, UH, THE ACTIVITIES ON BEHALF OF HER EMPLOYER, UM, UH, AUSTIN PETZEL LIVE.
YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION.
WELL, MY CONCERN WITH THAT IS THAT WHEN I'M LOOKING AT REGISTRATION REQUIREMENTS, UM, YES, I, I KNOW YOU DID A DETAILED LOOK AT A, THE PERSON MUST REGISTER IF THE PERSON DOES ONE, TWO, OR THREE.
MY CONCERN SPECIFICALLY IS THAT UNDER D OF THAT SAME ISSUE, COMPENSATION OR REIMBURSEMENT FOR LOBBYING DOES NOT INCLUDE COMPENSATION OR REIMBURSEMENT FOR THE FOLLOWING.
AND THEN THERE ARE 10 DIFFERENT EXCEPTIONS.
AND IT APPEARS TO ME THAT MUCH OF WHAT YOU ARE LISTING AS LOBBY TIME ACTIVITIES OR WHATEVER ARE INCLUDED WITHIN COMPENSATION OR REIMBURSEMENT FOR LOBBYING THE, THE THINGS THAT ARE NOT INCLUDED.
UM, COMMISSIONER, I ACTUALLY REVIEWED THAT THOSE ARE SORT OF THE EXCEPTIONS TO, YOU KNOW, WHAT MIGHT CONSTITUTE LOBBYING.
AND, AND I, I, I ACTUALLY DISAGREE WITH YOU.
UM, MAYBE, MAYBE UNDER SUBSECTION FOUR, UH, PROVIDING WITHOUT SEEKING TO INFLUENCE OR PERSUADE INFORMATION CONSISTING OF FACTS OR DATA TO A CITY OFFICIAL THAT THE CITY OFFICIALS SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED REGARDING A MUNICIPAL QUESTION.
UM, I THINK THERE ARE EXAMPLES WHEN PERHAPS MISRA WAS DOING THAT WHEN A CITY OFFICIAL, UH, COUNCIL MEMBER OR THE STAFF, YOU KNOW, ASKED FOR INFORMATION.
BUT, BUT THERE'S ALWAYS, BUT SINCE THERE WERE, SINCE APA WAS SPECIFICALLY SEEKING TO GET THE COUNSEL TO APPROVE NOT JUST ONCE, BUT THREE TIMES AN EXTENSION OF THE LICENSE AGREEMENT OR A NEW LICENSE AGREEMENT, THERE WAS INTENT TO PER INFLUENCE OR PERSUADE THERE, I BELIEVE.
SO I DON'T THINK THAT EXCEPTION, UH, APPLIES HERE IN THIS INSTANCE EITHER.
YOU, YOU PROBABLY HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING.
I, I'M ON A SUBCOMMITTEE WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO BETTER DEFINE THESE EXACT TERMS. UM, AND MY BIG ISSUE IS THAT EVERY STATE AGENCY, EVERY NONPROFIT, EVERY, YOU KNOW, ADVOCACY GROUP I CAN THINK OF HAS SOMEONE WHO'S THE DIRECTOR OF GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND THEY GIVE THEIR CARDS TO ALL THE STAFF PEOPLE.
AND THEN WHEN THEIR BUDGET COMES UP, OR WHEN THERE'S A COMPLAINT AT THE PRISONS ABOUT PEOPLE'S, UH, CARE TAKING OR WHATEVER THE STAFF CALLS THAT DIRECTOR OF GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS, AND I'M HAVING A BIG PROBLEM IN MY MIND, DIFFERENTIATING BETWEEN WHAT A DIRECTOR OF GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS IS TASKED WITH, OFTEN PAID FOR, EXPECTED TO DO, AND LOBBYING, WHICH MANY OF THOSE DIRECTORS OF GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS DO OVER AND ABOVE THEIR EIGHT HOURS.
OR IF THEY'RE, IF THE GROUP THAT THEY'RE INVOLVED WITH PASSES A RESOLUTION ASKING THE LEGISLATURE OR THE CITY COUNCIL TO DO THIS OR THAT, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEIR BOARD WANTS.
DIFFERENTIATING BETWEEN ANSWERING THOSE QUESTIONS OR, OR REPRESENTING YOUR GROUP FOR BUDGETARY SITUATIONS OR
[01:20:01]
WHATEVER, WHATEVER, YOU KNOW, LEGISLATION, UH, ORDINANCES VERSUS, OKAY, WELL, OUR BOARD OF CRIMINAL WHATEVER WANTS TO PASS A RESOLUTION AGAINST THE DEATH PENALTY.ARE YOU REPRESENTING YOUR BOARD OR ARE YOU LOBBYING WHEN YOU GO OVER THERE WITH THEIR RESOLUTION? YES, MR. BERG, I, I UNDERSTAND YOUR, YOUR POINT AND YOUR CONCERN.
WHAT I WOULD, WOULD SAY THOUGH, IS MOST OF THE DOCUMENTATION THAT I INCLUDED WITH MY LETTER TO THE CITY CLERK WITH, WITH SOME EXCEPTIONS, AND I AGREE WITH RESPONDENTS COUNCIL, THEY DIDN'T ALL HAVE TO DO WITH, UH, YOU KNOW, THE, THE CITY COUNCIL RESOLUTIONS, THE THREE, THE FIVE DIFFERENT AGENDA ITEMS THAT WERE, SOME OF THEM WERE A LITTLE MORE GENERAL IN NATURE.
UM, BUT MOST OF THE, UH, THAT MATERIAL IS SPECIFICALLY ABOUT, UM, THE, UH, COUNCIL, UH, ACTIONS THAT WERE ON THE AGENDA THAT WERE, ARE GOING TO BE ON THE AGENDA AND APAS ATTEMPTS TO CONTINUE TO PUSH THEM TO BE ON THE AGENDA OVER THE COURSE OF 2021.
UM, AS AN ASIDE, YOU KNOW, I'VE SERVED AS A REGISTERED LOBBYIST MYSELF, AND AS, AS A LAWYER, I ALWAYS JUST IMMEDIATELY REGISTERED TO LOBBY.
UM, BECAUSE LOBBYING IS OFTEN REALLY, IF YOU, MAYBE NOT THE CITY OF AUSTIN'S DEFINITION, BUT LOBBYING IS OFTEN ABOUT ESTABLISHING RELATIONSHIPS WITH, UM, WITH THE, WITH POLICY MAKERS AND LOBBYISTS SPEND A LOT OF TIME DOING THAT, UM, PROFESSIONALLY, THAT'S, THAT'S THE, I MEAN, THAT'S WHY THEY, THEY GET SO GOOD AT WHAT THEY DO.
THEY, THEY KNOW HOW TO BUILD THOSE RELATIONSHIPS.
I, THAT'S JUST A LITTLE ASIDE THOUGH.
I, I WAS A LOBBYIST FOR TEXANS FOR THE EQUAL RIGHTS, AND THEN BEFORE I WAS OH, BEFORE I WAS AN ADULT.
THIS QUESTION IS FOR THE RESPONDENT, IS IT POSSIBLE, AND I'M CHOOSING MY WORDS VERY CAREFULLY HERE, IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THERE WAS PREPARATION OUTSIDE OF THE CALENDAR EVENT MEETINGS? SURE, SURE.
UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, I AM SYMPATHETIC TO THE COMPLAINANT ON, UM, THE MATERIALS THAT SHE RECEIVED IN HER PUBLIC INFORMATION REQUEST.
AND IT MAY NOT BE COMPLETE, AND IT MAY NOT BE EVERYTHING.
THIS MAY NOT BE EVERYTHING, BUT IT'S WHAT WE'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S ALL THAT WE'VE GOT THAT WE'VE GOT IN FRONT OF US RIGHT NOW FOR THIS COMPLAINT.
WE CAN'T GET ANYTHING ELSE FOR THIS COMPLAINT FOR TONIGHT.
AND SO WE HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT WE'VE GOT.
AND SO, UM, YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, WE WENT THROUGH THAT CALENDAR WITH A FINE TOOTH COMB AS, AS FAR AS I POSSIBLY COULD.
AND IT'S, THIS IS EVERYTHING THAT IS RESPONSIVE TO THIS ISSUE, UM, THAT, YOU KNOW, WE DIDN'T HAVE TO PROVIDE.
WE PROVIDED IT FOR TRANSPARENCY AND SHOULD JUST, AND SHOULD SHOW, YOU KNOW, EVEN WITH ALL OF THAT ADDITIONAL INFORMATION THAT WASN'T EVEN INCLUDED IN THIS, THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE TO PROVIDE, SHE STILL DOESN'T HIT THE 26 HOURS.
WELL, I GUESS I, I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW, IF IT'S POSSIBLE THAT THAT PREPARATION COULD HAVE HAPPENED OUTSIDE OF THESE CALENDAR EVENT MEETINGS.
I GUESS I'M INTERPRETING YOUR STATEMENT THAT HE, HERE ARE THE CALENDAR EVENT MEETINGS AND PREPARATION.
WHAT I THOUGHT I HEARD WAS PREPARATION, THESE MEETINGS ARE PREP FOR THE PREPARATION.
AND THAT THERE'S NO OTHER THAT IF, IF THEY WEREN'T, IF THEY'RE NOT A CALENDAR EVENT MEETING, THEN THAT MEANS IT, IT WAS NOT A PREPARATION.
AND I'M ASKING IS IT POSSIBLE THAT PREPARATION COULD HAVE BEEN MADE, CONDUCTED OUTSIDE OF THOSE? IF, IF IT'S OKAY, UM, I'LL JUST SAY AUSTIN PETS ALIVE HAS A TEAM OF PEOPLE.
UM, MOST OF THE WORK THAT WE DO WITH THE CITY AND THE LAND USE STUFF WENT THROUGH, YOU KNOW, PREPARATION MATERIALS WOULD GO TO OUR MARKETING DIRECTOR OR OUR COMMS DIRECTOR.
AND I WAS JUST ASKED TO BE A PART OF THESE MEETINGS.
SO MUCH OF WHAT I DO IS STATE LEVEL WORK.
AND SO REALLY THE CITY STUFF THAT WE'RE DOING IS THINGS WHERE AT THE, AT THE LAST MINUTE, I'M USUALLY ASKED TO ATTEND A MEETING.
I'M ASKED TO BE A PART OF A CONVERSATION AS THE GR DIRECTOR.
UM, BUT IT REALLY IS SUCH A SMALL PART OF OUR JOB, AND A LOT OF THE JOB DUTIES WITH PREPARATION MIGHT HAVE FALLEN TO SOMEBODY ELSE ON THE TEAM.
AND THEN I WAS PART OF THOSE MEETINGS SURE.
THAT WERE, THAT ARE LISTED ON THE CALENDAR.
MAY I CONTINUE WITH A COUPLE OF OTHER
[01:25:01]
QUESTIONS? OKAY.UM, IS IT POSSIBLE THAT YOU PREPARED FOR AN EMAIL RESPONSE OUTSIDE OF THESE CALENDAR EVENT MEETINGS? NO, MA'AM.
I, I DON'T, I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION.
DID I PREPARED MY EMAIL RESPONSE OUTSIDE OF THE EMAIL RESPONSES? NO.
MY QUESTION IS, IS IT POSSIBLE THAT IN REPLYING OR CRAFTING AN EMAIL MM-HMM.
I MEAN, MOST OF THE RESPONSES THAT I HAD HAD TO DO WITH INFORMATION SHARING, AND SO THEY WERE JUST ME COLLECTING INFORMATION AND SENT SITTING AND SHARING.
AND SO YOU WOULD BE COLLECTING THAT INFORMATION ONLY IN THE CONFINES OF A CALENDAR EVENT MEETING? CORRECT.
AND THEN, UM, MY NEXT QUESTION IS, UM, WHAT REFERENCE ARE YOU USING THAT STATES THAT BEING COPIED ON AN EMAIL IS NOT CONSIDERED COMMUNICATE DIRECTLY? WELL, I MEAN, THE ORDINANCE ITSELF REQUIRES DIRECT COMMUNICATION AND BEING COPIED ON AN EMAIL AND NOT RESPONDING TO IT IS NOT DIRECT COMMUNICATION.
THAT'S NOT, YOU ARE NOT SPEAKING, YOU'RE NOT EVEN, SHE DIDN'T EVEN TYPE ANYTHING.
SHE'S BEING COPIED ON AN EMAIL THAT'S NOT DIRECT.
THAT'S IN MY INTERPRETATION IS THAT, AND I'M, I'M NOT MAKING A JUDGMENT.
I'M JUST TRYING TO SEE, UM, WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM WITH THAT INTERPRETATION OF DEFINITION.
SO COMMUNICATE DIRECTLY WITH, OR ANY VARI VARIATION OF THE PHRASE MEANS CONTACT IN PERSON OR BY TELEPHONE.
WRITTEN COMMUNICATION, ELECTRONIC OR OTHERWISE, OR DIRECT CONTACT THROUGH ANY OTHER ELECTRONIC MEANS OF COMMUNICATION.
SO THIS IS ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATION.
IT IS, THERE'S NOTHING THAT SAYS THAT COMMUNICATE DIRECTLY WITH MEANS.
YOU HAVE TO INITIATE THAT EMAIL OR DISAGREE VERY STRONGLY, OR THAT BEING COPIED ON AN EMAIL, YOU ARE PART OF THE COMMUNICATION.
I WOULD DISAGREE WITH THAT VERY STRONGLY.
AND SO THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING WHAT REFERENCE DO YOU HAVE THAT STATES THAT BEING COPIED ON AN EMAIL IS NOT CONSIDERED COMMUNICATE DIRECTLY? WELL, I WISH I HAD THE TIME TO PULL IT UP, BUT THERE ARE MULTIPLE, UH, ETHICS OPINIONS AT THE TEXAS ETHICS COMMISSION THAT, THAT DO GO INTO THAT AND TALK ABOUT THAT.
THAT REQUIRES DIRECT COMMUNICATION FROM YOU.
I MEAN, BECAUSE IF IT WERE, IF IT WERE WHAT YOU'RE SUGGESTING, I COULD, I COULD COPY THE CHAIR ON 57 EMAILS TO THE, TO THE CITY COUNCIL AND IMPLICATE HIM AS A LOBBYIST ANYTIME I WANTED.
IT'S NOT JUST, AND IT'S NOT WHAT THE LAW SAYS.
UH, YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY DO THE COMMUNICATION YOURSELF.
SO IT IS COMMUNICATE DIRECTLY MEANS EVEN THOUGH IT DOESN'T SAY IT HERE FOR SOME REASON, IT MEANS YOU HAVE TO BE THE ONE INITIATING THAT IT HAS TO COME FROM YOU MAYBE NOT INITIATE, BUT YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO ENGAGE.
SO, LIKE, IF, IF I GOT AN EMAIL FROM THE CITY OF AUSTIN OR A STAFF MEMBER, IF I REPLIED TO IT, SURE.
THAT'S A DIRECT COMMUNICATION, BUT BEING COPIED ON IT AND NOT ENGAGING IS NOT DIRECT COMMUNICATION.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS, COUNSEL, WITH REGARDS TO THOSE EMAILS, UM, IF YOU COULD TURN ON YOUR MICROPHONE.
WITH REGARDS TO THOSE EMAILS, IF YOU'VE READ IT WITH THE, IF YOU READ IT WITH THAT SATISFY, UH, THE NECESSARY COMPONENTS FOR COMMUNICATING DIRECTLY, IF YOU READ THE EMAIL, NO.
WOULD IT SATISFY THE NECESSARY COMPONENTS FOR PREPARATION ONLY IF YOU USED THE INFORMATION AND THEN TURNED AROUND TO COMMUNICATE? YES.
OR IF IT PLACED YOU IN A BETTER POSITION TO MAKE A RESPONSE SURE.
IF YOU USED IT TO YOUR ADVANCE SURE.
HOW WILL WE KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THAT EXISTED? YOU WOULDN'T, YOU JUST, YOU JUST WOULDN'T.
I MEAN, JUST THE, I MEAN, THE EVIDENCE THAT WE HAVE IS THE WRITTEN COMMUNICATIONS THAT EXIST IN THE CALENDAR, EVENTS THAT EXIST.
I MEAN, JUST, I, I CAN'T CONTROL THAT.
THAT'S JUST WHAT WE HAVE TO, TO LOOK AT AND TO PLAY WITH HERE.
COMMISSIONER LEVINS? UH, UH, YES.
UM, MS. PADILLA, YOU'VE HAD A CHANCE
[01:30:01]
TO LOOK AT THE SPREADSHEET THAT, UH, COUNCIL FOR THE RESPONDENT PROVIDED.AND THE, THE FIRST THING, REALLY, THE FIRST THING FIRST TWO THINGS THAT HE NOTES ARE ERRORS IN YOUR BULLET POINTS.
I JUST HAVE YOUR BULLET POINTS AND HIS DESCRIPTION OF I'M THAT THEY MAY HAVE BEEN PROVIDED TO US AT SOME POINT.
I DON'T HAVE THEM IN FRONT OF ME.
UM, AND THEN FURTHER DOWN, THERE'S A, AN EMAIL ON JULY 20TH THAT, UM, YOUR BULLET POINT SAYS THAT MS. JAR PREPARED, AND THE NOTE FROM THE OPPOSING, YOUR OPPOSING COUNSEL SAYS, NO, ELLEN JEFFERSON PREPARED THAT.
DO YOU AGREE THAT THOSE ARE ERRORS OR DO YOU CONTEND THAT, UM, THAT HIS CORRECTION OF YOUR NOTES IS IN FACT INCORRECT? UM, UH, COMMISSIONER, COULD YOU PLEASE JUST EXPLAIN THAT LA THE LAST, UH, UH, BULLET POINTS THAT YOU, UH, THAT YOU IDENTIFIED OR THE, OR THE POINTS ON THE SPREADSHEET? I THINK IT WAS MAY 20TH, SIR.
THERE ARE NO, IT WAS JULY 20TH.
SO THERE ARE, THERE ARE THREE, UM, THREE ENTRIES ON THE SPREADSHEET.
THE FIRST TWO, WHICH RELATE TO A MARCH 19TH, AND THEN A MARCH 22ND EMAIL THAT YOUR NOTES MM-HMM.
DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THAT? AND SHE, IN FACT, DID WRITE THEM, I WOULD HAVE TO, UH, CHECK THIS AGAINST, UH, AGAINST THE EMAIL.
I, I DO RECALL SEVERAL PLACES THOUGH, WHERE MS. JAR HAD PREPARED, UM, MATERIAL THAT WAS, THAT WAS USED.
I'M NOT ASKING ABOUT, I'M ASKING WHAT I, IF I MAY, I'M ASKING ABOUT VERY SPECIFIC INSTANCES, AND I DON'T, I DON'T THINK THEY'VE ARGUED THAT SHE DIDN'T PREPARE.
WELL, LET ME FINISH MY QUESTION, IF I MAY.
THEY DIDN'T CONTEND THAT SHE PREPARED NOTHING, BUT THEY HAVE POINTED OUT, AND WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE QUANTUM EVIDENCE THAT YOU'VE PROVIDED AND SEE IF IT GIVES US ENOUGH TO SAY THERE'S, UH, REASONABLE CAUSE WITH RESPECT TO THESE TWO, MARCH 19TH AND MARCH 22ND.
IS THE OPPOSING LAWYERS, UH, CORRECTION OF YOUR NOTES, YOUR BULLET POINTS? IS HE IN FACT AN ERROR? I, I, I CANNOT CONFIRM.
UH, I CANNOT CONFIRM OR, OR DENY THAT I, I, YOU KNOW, THERE, IT, IT IS POSSIBLE THAT I, UM, MIS UH, UH, EXPLAINED, THAT'S NOT THE RIGHT WORD, UM, UH, MIS DESCRIBED, UM, INCORRECT DESCRIBED, UH, THE EMAILS.
BUT I WOULD NEED TO, UH, CONFIRM.
AND AGAIN, UH, I KNOW THIS WASN'T YOUR QUESTION, BUT THE POINTS THAT I'VE INCLUDED IN MY LETTER WERE ONLY ILLUSTRATIVE.
UH, THEY ONLY INCLUDED A PORTION OF WHAT, UM, WHAT, UH, I LEARNED THAT, YOU KNOW, MS. MS. JAR, UH, COMMUNICATED TO COUNCIL MEMBERS AND THEIR STAFF.
SO I ASSUME THAT YOUR ANSWER IS GONNA BE ROUGHLY THE SAME WITH, WITH REGARD TO THE ENTRY ON, UH, ON THE SPREADSHEET REGARDING AN EMAIL ON JULY 20TH WHERE YOUR NOTE SAYS THAT MS. JAR PREPARED SOME THINGS.
BUT IN FACT, ACCORDING TO THE RESPONDENT'S COUNCIL, MS. JAR DIDN'T PREPARE THE RESPONSES.
I ASSUME YOUR RESPONSE IS THE SAME.
YOU, YOU DON'T KNOW OFF TOP OF YOUR HEAD IF YOU ARE, IF YOUR BULLET POINT WAS CORRECT AS STATED OR NOT, THAT THAT IS, THAT IS THE CASE.
I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE, AND I WOULD HAVE TO CONFIRM.
I CAN'T, BUT I WOULD NOTE THAT IT, ALL, THAT MATERIAL HAS BEEN PROVIDED TO YOU ALSO.
SO, UH, YOU KNOW, YOU OR YOUR STAFF COULD ALSO CONFIRM IF MY STAFF
I'M SORRY IF ONLY WE WERE SO LUCKY.
UM, I WILL, UH, COULD I ADDRESS THAT? UH, I THINK COMMISSIONER MCCORMICK HAD A QUESTION IN THE MEANTIME.
UM, I THINK SOMEONE PROBABLY HAS A COPY, A PAPER COPY OF THAT EMAIL.
UM, YEAH, I DO, I DO HAVE BOTH RIGHT HERE.
UH, IF WHOEVER WOULD LIKE TO REVIEW THEM, LET'S GET THE IN THE RIGHT HANDS.
UM, IN THE MEANTIME, UH, COMMISSIONER MCCORMICK FOR A QUESTION, AND THEN I'LL GO TO GREENBERG.
THAT QUESTION IS A GENERAL ONE.
UH, WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT LOBBYING IN GENERAL, BUT NORMALLY WHEN YOU LOBBY, YOU ARE LOBBYING FOR SOMETHING SPECIFIC.
NOW ARE YOU, YOU TALKING ABOUT A SPECIFIC INCIDENT
[01:35:01]
OR SOMETHING THAT YOU WERE REFERRING TO DURING THIS PERIOD OF TIME? LIKE A CONTRACT WITH AUSTIN PETS ALIVE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? WE'VE NEVER MENTIONED THAT SPECIFIC.WE'VE ALWAYS TALKED ABOUT LOBBYING GENERAL, BUT WHEN YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING SPECIFIC, THEN THAT'S GONNA BE MENTIONED ON SOME OF THESE THINGS BY WHATEVER WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, THE CONTRACT OR WHAT, WHATEVER.
INSTEAD OF JUST LOBBYING GENERAL.
SEE, I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU DID
I'M QUESTIONING WHAT THE MAIN PURPOSE IS AS IT IS SPECIFIC, LIKE A CONTRACT OR SOMETHING AUSTIN PUTS ALIVE WAS NOT DOING THAT.
YOU ARE FILING THIS LOBBYING INFORMATION.
CERTAINLY IS YOU IS VERY SPECIFIC EX, EXCUSE ME, I MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE A POINT OF ORDER.
DO WE HAVE TO HAVE A MOTION AT NINE O'CLOCK OR 10 O'CLOCK? IT'S 10 O'CLOCK.
UM, UH, SO, UH, COMPLAINANT, I'LL LET YOU, UH, ANSWER COMMISSIONER MCCORMICK'S QUESTION.
COMMISSIONER MCCORBY? NO, I, I AM, I AM SPECIFICALLY, UH, DISCUSSING, UM, A NUMBER OF MUNICIPAL QUESTIONS BECAUSE LOBBYING PER THE CITY ORDINANCE, UH, IS COMMUNICATION ABOUT MUNICIPAL QUESTION.
AND I I WENT OVER THE DEFINITION OF THAT.
I'M NOT GONNA GET THIS EXACTLY RIGHT.
I'M NOT LOOKING AT THE ORDINANCE RIGHT NOW.
IT INCLUDES BOTH, YOU KNOW, COUNCIL ITEMS AND OTHER CITY.
UM, I WILL ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE, JUST TO MAKE SURE I DON'T DO MUNICIPAL QUESTIONS.
PROPOSING, CONSIDERING APPROVING OR NEGOTIATING CONCERNING MUNICIPAL LEGISLATION, ADMINISTRATIVE ACTIONS, OR OTHER MATTERS SUBJECT TO AN ACTION OR DECISION BY A CITY OFFICIALS.
SO IN MY LETTER TO THE CITY CLERK, I OUTLINED FIVE MUNICIPAL ACTIONS, UM, THAT, UM, THAT CONCERNED APA AND ABOUT WHICH, UM, MS. MS. CHARLES, UM, UH, COMMUNICATED, UH, OVER THE COURSE OF 2021.
UM, AND THERE IS ALSO EVIDENCE THAT, UH, MS. CHARLES WAS COMMUNICATING WITH CITY OFFICIALS ABOUT THE LICENSE AGREEMENT MORE GENERALLY.
SO THAT'S ALSO, AS I READ IT, A MUNICIPAL QUESTION, UM, THAT, UM, THAT COMES WITHIN THE FRAME OF THE LOBBYING ORDINANCE.
I GUESS MY QUESTION WAS, THERE'S USUALLY SOMETHING THAT HITS YOUR BUTTON WHENEVER YOU FILE SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
AND THAT'S WHY I, I WANTED TO KNOW, WAS IT, UH, SOMETHING SPECIFIC OR JUST IN GENERAL? MOST OF, UH, WHAT, YOU KNOW, THE FIVE MUNICIPAL QUESTIONS OR, OR THE FIVE COUNCIL ITEMS I SHOULD SAY, IT WAS ALL ABOUT THE LICENSE AGREEMENT.
AND THAT'S THE LICENSE AGREEMENT THAT THE CITY OF AUSTIN HAS WITH AUSTIN PETS ALIVE TO USE TOWN LAKE ANIMAL CENTER AT NO COST TO, OR INITIALLY TO, UM, HOUSE, UH, ANIMALS FROM THE CITY OF AUSTIN.
UH, EVEN THAT, THAT MORPHED OVER TIME AND OVER THE COURSE OF 2021, APA UH, SUCCEEDED IN CONVINCING COUNCIL TO, UH, INSTRUCT THE CITY MANAGER TO NEGOTIATE SPECIFIC TERMS, UH, IN THE LICENSE AGREEMENT THAT APA WANTED.
UM, I DON'T THINK I NEED TO GO INTO ANY MORE DETAIL.
I MEAN, I KNOW MORE DETAIL, BUT I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY SUFFICIENT FOR PURPOSES OF ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION.
I'M COMMISSIONER GREENBERG AND THEN SECRETARY STANTON.
SO I, I ASKED ABOUT THE SMALL PRINT PREVIOUSLY, AND YOU'RE SAYING IT'S NOT READABLE.
THEY ARE ALMOST, I MEAN, I, I HAVEN'T GONE THROUGH EVERY SINGLE ONE, BUT EVERY SINGLE ONE I'VE LOOKED AT IS, UH, MICROSOFT TEAMS INVITE.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, THERE'S A MICROSOFT TEAM'S INVITE, UM, SENT FROM GOOGLE CALENDAR ON BEHALF OF KATIE JAR FOR A MEETING ACCEPTED, UM, ON MONDAY, MARCH 8TH, 2021 FROM 1:00 PM TO ONE 30.
THE INVITATION WAS SENT OUT ON FEBRUARY.
I HAVE TO LOOK, SORRY, I HAVE TO SCROLL DOWN A BIT TO FIND WHEN IT WAS SENT OUT, BUT IT WAS SENT OUT EARLIER.
[01:40:01]
FOR SURE.A HALF AN HOUR, UM, IS WHAT'S RECORDED.
WE ALL KNOW SOMETIMES THE MICROSOFT TEAM'S MEETING MIGHT SAY IT STARTS FROM ONE TO ONE 30, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT REALLY ENDS AT ONE 30 AND FURTHER.
SO IT WAS SENT MARCH 20, FEBRUARY 22ND, THE ORIGINAL APPOINTMENT, AND THEN THERE WAS MARCH 8TH FROM ONE TO ONE 30.
NEITHER FEBRUARY 8TH OR FEBRUARY 22ND, NOR MARCH 8TH ARE LISTED ON HERE AS HAVING BEEN, UM, ANY KIND OF ACTIVITY.
AND I DON'T RECOGNIZE ALL THE NAMES, BUT ONE NAME I FOR SURE RECOGNIZE BESIDES YOURS IS SABINO RE.
SO IF THAT'S NOT LOBBYING OR, OR DIRECT COMMUNICATION, BECAUSE IT'S MICROSOFT TEAMS, NO, IT, IT IS.
SO WHY ISN'T IT ON HERE? CAUSE I COULDN'T READ IT.
WELL, NO, AND I'LL ALSO SAY THE, TO, TO THE CALENDAR INVITES THAT ARE NOT REFLECTED IN MY CALENDAR.
THERE WERE MANY OF THOSE OFFICES WHERE WE, YOU KNOW, THEY ASKED TO TALK TO US ABOUT THE LICENSE AGREEMENT, WE SET SOMETHING UP, AND THEN THEY HAD TO POSTPONE OR RESCHEDULE, AND IT WAS PULLED OFF THE CALENDAR AND IT WAS RESCHEDULED FOR ANOTHER TIME.
SO EVERYTHING THAT IS ON MY CALENDAR ARE THE THINGS THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED THERE.
I'M, I'M NOT, I WON'T DENY THAT SOMEBODY COULD HAVE SENT OUT A CALENDAR INVITE HOPING WE COULD HAVE HAD A MEETING, AND THEN THAT MEETING WAS TAKEN OFF THE CALENDAR THEN DID, YEAH, I PROB I PROBABLY DID ACCEPT IT.
I WOULD HAVE, BUT I WOULD, I WILL, I ABSOLUTELY KNOW THAT IN THE COURSE OF, UH, YOU KNOW, THE EIGHT OR NINE MONTHS, THERE WERE MANY CANCELLATIONS AND PEOPLE EMAILING AND SAYING, HEY, BY THE WAY, CAN'T MAKE IT.
BUT THERE'S A LOT OF THESE TINY PRINT ONES AND YOU COULDN'T READ THEM TO EVALUATE THEM.
I KNOW IT'S REALLY, REALLY TINY, BUT IF YOU PUT IT ON THE COMPUTER, WHICH WE ALL GOT AN ELECTRONIC COPY, AND I HAVE IT AT 500%, I CAN READ IT.
AND I'M JUST CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT ELSE ISN'T ON HERE WHEN YOU ARE THE ONE PREPARING IT AND YOU'RE NOT READING ANY OF THE TINY PRINT.
SO, SO I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO FEEL SECURE IN YOUR SPREADSHEET? I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW TO FEEL, COMMISSIONER.
I, I, I DID MY BEST WITH THE RESOURCES THAT I HAD.
UM, SECRETARY STANTON, I'LL LET YOU ASK A QUESTION AND THEN I'VE GOT ONE MYSELF.
UM, FOR THE RESPONDENT HERE, I'M BACK ON, AND I THINK THIS IS THE LAST QUESTION I HAVE ABOUT TO COMMUNICATE DIRECTLY.
UM, SO IN PERSON, SO LET'S SAY THERE'S A MEETING CALLED FOR SOME REASON, AND YOU ATTEND, AND THEN THE MEETING, THERE WAS DISCUSSION THAT'S OBVIOUSLY LOBBYING, BUT YOU DON'T SAY ANYTHING.
I WOULD STILL CALL IT DIRECT COMMUNICATION.
YEAH, I, THAT'S, I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE GOING WITH IT AND IT'S, IT'S, IT'S EASY TO GO DOWN RABBIT TRAILS ON THIS.
UM, I'VE DONE IT MYSELF FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS AND, AND PULLED IT THREADS THAT ARE TOUGH.
UM, I, I WOULD SAY I, I WOULDN'T, I WOULDN'T PARSE THE WORDS ON THAT TOO MUCH.
I WOULD SAY IF YOU'RE THERE IN PERSON, YOU'RE DIRECTLY COMMUNICATING.
BUT ON THE EMAIL IT'S SENT TO YOU, IT'S NOT DIRECT COMMUNICATION.
SO I JUST WANT TO ASK, I'LL ASK ONE SIMPLE QUESTION AND I'LL GO TO COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS. UM, IS IT, IS IT RESPONDENT'S REPRESENTATION THAT THE, THIS, THESE CALENDAR EVENTS ARE THE SUM TOTAL OF LOBBYING, UH, ACTIVITIES THAT RESPONDENT ENGAGED IN, IN THIS TIME PERIOD SPECIFICALLY, OR SPECIFICALLY BETWEEN MARCH 2ND, 2021 AND ROUGHLY THE END OF OCTOBER, 2021? THAT'S CORRECT.
EVERYTHING ON THIS SPREADSHEET WOULD BE CONSIDERED A LOBBY CONTACT UNLESS THERE WAS AN ERROR ON IT.
UH, AND A FOLLOW UP IS THAT A RESPONDENT DID NOT, UH, HAVE ACCESS TO A REQUEST CALENDAR, UM, INVITES OR INFORMATION FROM MEMBERS OR STAFF ON CITY COUNCIL.
COULD YOU SAY THAT AGAIN? SORRY.
UH, DID, DID RESPONDENT AT ANY POINT, UH, IN PREPARING FOR THIS HEARING OR, UM, OTHERWISE HAVE ACCESS TO, OR HAVE SEEN CALENDARS FOR CITY COUNCIL OVER OTHERS? NO.
NO, WE DIDN'T HAVE ACCESS TO ANYBODY ELSE'S CALENDAR.
UM, I, WE WENT OFF OF EVERYTHING IN HERE THAT WAS SUBMITTED BY THE COMPLAINANT AND, UH, THE RESPONDENT'S CALENDAR.
[01:45:01]
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS. YEAH.I THINK WHAT THE CHAIR IS GETTING AT IS WHETHER OR NOT IT IS YOUR CLIENT'S REPRESENTATION THAT THIS IS ALL THIS STUFF, THIS IS ALL OF HER ACTIVITIES.
IS SHE ASSERTING THAT? BECAUSE GENERALLY WHAT WE WOULD DO IN A, IN A DIFFERENT COURT, UH, WOULD, WOULD BE TAKE A SWORN AFFIDAVIT OR GET A SWORN STATEMENT AND ANOTHER SWORN TO SURE.
SO I THINK THAT THAT'S WHERE HE IS GETTING AT WITH THAT.
I MEAN, I, I, I CAN SAY, YOU KNOW, UM, ON A BIBLE OR WHATEVER, YOU KNOW, I, I DID THE BEST I COULD.
I, I, I PULLED THROUGH EVERYTHING THAT WE HAD.
UM, LIKE I SAID, WE DIDN'T HAVE TO PROVIDE ANY OF THIS CALENDAR STUFF.
WE WANTED TO DO IT JUST TO BE TOTALLY OPEN ABOUT EVERYTHING.
UM, YEAH, I, I, I DID THE BEST I COULD ON PULLING EVERYTHING OUT AND, UM, AND LIKE I SAID, ASSIGNING, ASSIGNING VALUES TO EMAILS THAT PROBABLY HONESTLY TOOK 15 SECONDS TO SEND AN EMAIL AND I ASSIGNED 15 MINUTES TO IT, JUST TO BE FAIR.
AND LET'S KEEP 'EM ALL EVEN AND SET A HIGH NUMBER ON THEM.
YEAH, I THINK THAT'S, THIS IS THE SUM TOTAL OF EVERYTHING WE COULD FIND.
AND IN ASSESSING THOSE NUMBERS, YOU DID SPEAK WITH YOUR CLIENT ABOUT THAT, AND YEAH, THAT WAS A GREAT TEAM.
UM, MY, MY, MY QUESTION IS, DO YOU STILL PRESIDE AS BOTH, UM, IN YOUR POSITION WITH AUSTIN PETS ALIVE IN, UM, ON THE, UH, I GUESS THERE'S A COMMISSION OR BOARD THAT YOU'RE, WERE, THAT YOU WERE SERVING ON, ARE YOU STILL FULFILLING BOTH OF THOSE POSITIONS? YES, I AM.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I SEE.
IS COMMISSIONER DANBURG, IS THAT A HAND UP OR IS THAT A RESTING? I SEE, TOTALLY FINE.
UH, WELL AT THIS TIME THEN, UM, I'M NOT GONNA COMPLETELY CLOSE THE DOOR TO QUESTIONS, BUT THIS IS, UH, AN OPPORTUNITY, UH, NOW FOR US TO DISCUSS AMONGST OURSELVES.
UH, MOTIONS ARE ALLOWABLE AT THIS POINT, IF ANYONE WOULD BE INCLINED TO MAKE THEM, BUT GENERALLY WE ARE ALLOWED TO BEGIN OPEN DISCUSSION.
UH, SO I, I LIKE, I LIKE IT WHEN COMMISSIONERS LEAD THAT DISCUSSION.
SO I WILL, I SEE COMMISSIONER DANBURG, GO AHEAD.
AH, UM, TWO OF OUR, I GUESS, BASIC PRINCIPLES I'D LIKE TO MENTION, NUMBER ONE IS THE BURDEN IS ENTIRELY ON THE COMPLAINANT AT THIS POINT, AND THE RESPONDENT HAS NO OBLIGATION TO RESPOND.
AND OUR STANDARD TO VOTE THIS FORWARD IS PROBABLE CAUSE, NOT.
COULD IT POSSIBLY BE THIS, COULD THIS POSSIBLY HAVE HAPPENED? THE BURDEN IS ON THE COMPLAINANT TO DEMONSTRATE THIS AS PROBABLE EVENTS WITHOUT, UM, YOU KNOW, ANY, ANY OTHER STANDARD THAN, THAN PROBABLE IT'S NOT ON THE RESPONDED.
UM, ONE THING THAT I'D LIKE TO JUST MENTION, UM, BEFORE WE DELVE TOO DEEP INTO OUR DISCUSSIONS, ONE OF THE ALLEGED VIOLATIONS IN THE COMPLAINT WAS A VIOLATION OF SECTION TWO DASH ONE DASH, FORGIVE ME FOR NOT HAVING THE SITE PERFECTLY MEMORIZED IN FRONT OF ME.
UM, I JUST WANTED TO STATE FOR THE RECORD THAT THAT SPECIFIC SECTION OF CODE DOES NOT FALL WITHIN OUR COMMISSION'S JURISDICTION.
UM, WHEN, WHEN THE CHAIR MAKES A JURISDICTIONAL DETERMINATION, IT'S A JURISDICTIONAL DETERMINATION ON THE COMPLAINT AS A WHOLE.
UM, UH, UNLESS, UH, WE ADOPT ONE OF MY IDEAS FOR LATER POLICY RECOMMENDATION, UM, I DON'T, I'M NOT REALLY ALLOWED TO PARSE THROUGH THE REC THE COMPLAINT AND SAY, THIS IS, AND THIS IS NOT IN OUR JURISDICTION, IT'S THE WHOLE COMPLAINT.
UM, SO I WANTED TO MAKE THAT CLEAR THAT WE'RE, UH, FOR OUR PURPOSES AND OUR DELIBERATIONS, WERE FOCUSED ON THE VIOLATIONS OF CHAPTER FOUR DASH EIGHT, UM, AND NOT TWO DASH ONE.
JUST WANTED THAT AS IN THOSE SIDE.
ANY, ANY OTHER COMMENTS? GO AHEAD.
COMMISSIONER LEVINS, I'M GONNA SAY STUFF ABOUT CRIMINAL LAW THAT I DON'T REALLY KNOW, CUZ I'M OUT, I'M OUTTA MY LANE HERE,
[01:50:01]
BUT I THINK I'M ON REASONABLY GOOD GROUND TO SAY THAT WHEN WE ARE, WE ARE ASKED TO DETERMINE WHETHER THERE IS, THERE'S THE EXISTENCE OF REASONABLE GROUNDS TO BELIEVE THAT A VIOLATION OF A PROVISION WITHIN OUR JURISDICTION HAS OCCURRED.I BELIEVE THAT'S BEEN AC ACCURATELY REPHRASED AS IF WE BELIEVE ALL OF THE EVIDENCE THAT'S BEEN PUT BEFORE US, WE COULD CONCLUDE THAT THERE'S BEEN A VIOLATION.
WE HAVE REASONABLE GROUNDS TO BELIEVE THAT LOBBYING OCCURRED.
IN FACT, THE RESPONDENT'S COUNCIL HAS CONCEDED LOBBYING OCCURRED, BUT THAT'S NOT A VIOLATION.
WE, WE HAVE SUGGESTIONS THAT THERE MIGHT BE EVIDENCE OF MORE THINGS PERHAPS.
SO, UM, BUT THERE'S NOT EVIDENCE BEFORE US THAT WE COULD BELIEVE OR DISBELIEVE ABOUT THAT.
UM, THERE'S THE NOTE OF, YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ON TOVO.
WELL, MAYBE THAT'S, CUZ NOTHING ON TOVO EXISTS, I DON'T KNOW, BUT I'M NOT, I DON'T THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE FOR US TO SPECULATE ABOUT WHAT EVIDENCE MIGHT BE OUT THERE.
IT'S TO EVALUATE THE EVIDENCE THAT WE ACTUALLY HAVE BEFORE US.
WE HAVE MORE EVIDENCE, UM, WITH THE CALENDAR STUFF THAN WHAT WE'RE REQUIRE OR THAT FRANKLY WE'RE ENTITLED TO HAVE.
UM, SO THAT IS BEFORE US, SO WE CAN CONSIDER IT.
BUT I DON'T SEE ANYTHING IN THAT EVIDENCE THAT MAKES ME SAY, IF I BELIEVE ALL OF THAT, THEN I'M GOING TO CONCLUDE THAT A THEN I WOULD CONCLUDE THAT A, A, UH, VIOLATION HAD OCCURRED.
UM, SO I DON'T, I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHAT THE APPROPRIATE QUANTUM OF EVIDENCE IS, BUT AS OF RIGHT NOW, AND I'M OPEN TO OTHER VIEWS ON IT FROM OTHER COMMISSIONERS, I DON'T SEE ENOUGH EVIDENCE THAT IF I BELIEVE ALL OF THE EVIDENCE AND DRAW EVERY INFERENCE IN FAVOR OF THE COMPLAINANT, THAT I STILL GET TO THE POINT WHERE I SAY, I THINK THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN A VIOLATION.
MAYBE THERE WAS, I DON'T KNOW.
BUT IT REQUIRES ME TO SPECULATE TO GET THERE.
SO I'M CURIOUS TO, I THINK OTHERS MAY BE LEANING THE OTHER WAY, AND I'M INTERESTED TO HEAR THEIR ARGUMENTS, UH, TO THAT EFFECT.
UM, BUT THAT'S WHERE I STAND AT THIS POINT.
UM, COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS, GO AHEAD.
I, I JUST WANNA MAKE A COMMENT ABOUT THE, UH, THE STANDARD HERE.
AND I THINK IT'S, IT'S THE EQUIVALENT OF, OF REASONABLE SUSPICION IN A CRIMINAL MATTER.
AND, AND I THINK THAT THE REAL QUESTION IS WHETHER OR NOT THERE ARE SPECIFIC AND ARTICULABLE FACTS THAT HAVE BEEN PRESENTED THAT GIVE US REASON TO BELIEVE THAT A VIOLATION HAS OCCURRED, DOESN'T MEAN THAT A VIOLATION HAS OCCURRED.
WE JUST HAVE TO HAVE A REASONABLE BELIEF THAT IT HAS OCCURRED.
UM, AND SO, UH, I THINK WHAT WE ARE STRUGGLING WITH IS A DEFINITION REGARDING CERTAINTY, BUT THIS IS ACTUALLY THE LOWEST STANDARD OUT THERE.
SO WITH THAT IN MIND, I THINK THAT WE NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT THESE FACTS AND, UM, AND I GUESS BASE OUR DECISION, BUT JUST BEAR IN MIND THAT THERE HAS, DOESN'T HAVE TO BE EVIDENCE THAT IT ACTUALLY OCCURRED.
IT'S JUST FROM THE SPECIFIC FACTS PRESENTED TO US THAT WE HAVE REASON TO BELIEVE THAT A VIOLATION OCCURRED.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER COMMENTS? UM, COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, UM, I THINK I'M A REASONABLE PERSON AND AS A REASONABLE PERSON, I DON'T THINK A CALENDAR EVENT THAT LISTS AN HOUR IS REALLY TAKING INTO ACCOUNT.
EVEN DRIVING TO TAC AND DRIVING BACK FROM TAC, THAT'S TIME, UM, THAT YOU'RE PAID FOR.
AND, UM, ALSO PREPARING NOT TAC IS NOT REALLY THE ONES THAT CONCERN ME BECAUSE IT'S REALLY THE THIRD QUARTER THAT'S, YOU KNOW, CLOSE TO 16 HOURS, WHAT WAS IT? 15.75 HOURS.
AND I HAVE GOT TO THINK THAT FOR EVERY HOUR THAT YOU'RE ACKNOWLEDGING, LOBBYING, THERE'S AT LEAST AN HOUR SETTING IT UP AND PREPARING, AND THAT PUTS YOU OVER YOUR 26 HOURS.
AND NO, I CANNOT BE CERTAIN, RIGHT? BUT CERTAINTY IS NOT REQUIRED HERE.
WHAT'S REQUIRED IS THAT THERE'S A REASONABLE
[01:55:01]
WHATEVER, WHAT'S THAT LANGUAGE GROUNDS, REASONABLE GROUNDS TO BELIEVE THAT A VIOLATION HAS OCCURRED WHEN YOU'RE ALREADY LISTING OUT 15.75 HOURS WHEN YOU'RE IGNORING EVERYTHING THAT'S ADMITTED, REALLY, REALLY TINY PRINT.AND WHEN YOU'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, SAYING, OH, WELL FOR MY ONE HOUR MEETING WITH COUNCIL MEMBER COUNCIL AID, I PREPARED, I THINK IT'S REASONABLE TO BELIEVE THAT IT'S OVER 26 HOURS, PARTICULARLY IN THE THIRD QUARTER.
I'D LIKE TO ACKNOWLEDGE AND THANK YOU RESPONDENT FOR PROVIDING THE EXTRA INFORMATION.
UM, I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THAT DOESN'T GET LOST IN ALL THIS, UM, COMMISSIONER LOVENS IS CORRECT.
WE ARE NOT, WE'RE NOT ENTITLED TO THAT.
AND SO EVEN MORE SO I, I APPRECIATE YOUR TRANSPARENCY, COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS. GO AHEAD.
I, I THINK THE, THE OTHER ISSUE IS THAT THIS COMMISSION HAS TO THINK ABOUT WHY DOES IT, WE HAVE THESE RULES AND WHAT WE'RE ACTUALLY STANDING FOR.
UM, I THINK THAT THERE'S A PROVISION THAT I BELIEVE IS OUTSIDE THE SCOPE OF OUR JURISDICTION THAT DOES NOT PERMIT A PERSON TO SIT ON A COMMISSION BOARD, UM, IF THEY'RE A REGISTERED, UM, LOBBYIST.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT THESE ARE QUESTIONS HERE, BUT I THINK THAT WITH REGARDS TO WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE, ONE HAS TO MAKE A DECISION ABOUT WHETHER TO REGISTER OR WHETHER TO SIT ON A PARTICULAR BOARD.
AND I THINK THAT THAT'S WHAT WE'RE BEING ASKED TO POLICE RIGHT NOW.
AND SO THAT TOO IS STILL A CONCERN FOR ME BECAUSE THE RESPONDENT IS STILL NOT REGISTERED AS A OBVIOUS AND IS STILL SERVING ON THAT BOARD.
UM, I'LL, I'LL SAY TO THAT, I, I'M, I'M SYMPATHETIC, UM, TO THAT SPECIFIC POLICY PROBLEM OF WHAT WE DO ABOUT, UH, AN INDIVIDUAL WHO IS, UM, COMPENSATED TO WORK IN A FIELD AND THEN SERVES ON THE BOARD OF THAT FIELD.
I KNOW WE HAVE CONFLICT OF INTEREST RULES THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO, UH, UH, DICTATE RECUSALS, UM, AND AT LEAST NOTICE OF CONFLICTS BEFORE VOTES ARE TAKEN.
UM, I JUST WANTED TO SAY, I'M, I'M SYMPATHETIC VERY MUCH SO TO THAT POLICY CONCERN.
UM, COMMISSIONERS, ARE THERE OTHER COMMENTS? UM, UH, MY TWO SENSES, UM, I'M GONNA SEE IF VIRTUAL COMMISSIONERS, NO.
UM, MY 2 CENTS, UH, SO FAR IS, UH, AGAIN, I, I DO NOT PRACTICE CRIMINAL LAW, SO I DO NOT KNOW THE PROBABLE CAUSE STANDARD LIKE THE BACK OF MY HAND.
UM, BUT WHAT I DO KNOW IS THAT IN PRIOR CASES, UH, THE WAY I HAVE APPROACHED THE REASONABLE GROUNDS IS NOT QUITE AS THREAD BEAR AS PROBABLE CAUSE.
UM, UH, I HAVE LOOKED FOR AT LEAST ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO TAKE, UH, SIMILAR TO WHAT COMMISSIONER LEVIN SAID, IF I AM TO BELIEVE ALL OF THE EVIDENCE THAT IS IN A COMPLAINT, UM, IT'S REASONABLE TO ARRIVE AT A CONCLUSION THAT A VIOLATION MAY HAVE OCCURRED.
UM, AND IN THIS CASE, UH, WE HAVE ALL OF THE EVIDENCE THAT WAS PROVIDED IN THE COMPLAINT, ALL OF THE EMAILS AND DOCUMENTS THAT WERE PROVIDED BY THE COMPLAINANT, WHICH I DID GO THROUGH, UM, IN ADDITION TO EVIDENCE THAT WAS PROVIDED, UH, BY THE RESPONDENT, UH, WHEN THE RESPONDENT DID NOT HAVE TO PROVIDE IT.
UM, IF I BELIEVE ALL OF THAT, AND I, I CONSIDER IT, YOU KNOW, IN THE LIGHT MOST FAVORABLE TO THE COMPLAINANT, IT DOES NOT AMOUNT TO A VIOLATION.
HOW I FEEL ABOUT THE UNDERLYING LAW ITSELF, AND WHETHER IT SHOULD BE MAYBE A LITTLE STRICTER IS ANOTHER QUESTION ENTIRELY.
BUT, UM, FOR THE, FOR THE QUESTION BEFORE US ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THERE ARE REASONABLE GROUNDS TO BELIEVE THAT A VIOLATION OF 4 8 4 DASH EIGHT DASH THREE SPECIFICALLY OCCURRED, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ENOUGH HERE TO, TO MAKE THAT JUMP WITHOUT MAKING A LOT OF ASSUMPTIONS, A LOT OF ASSUMPTIONS, UH, SPECIFICALLY ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT RESPONDENTS WORK HABITS, UM, AND STYLE AND, UH, ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT HOW RESPONDENT DOES THE JOB THAT SHE DOES.
[02:00:01]
AGAIN, I DON'T WANT TO, I DON'T WANNA WADE TOO MUCH INTO HOW I FEEL ABOUT UNDERLYING POLICY QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT AUSTIN'S LOBBYING RULES LOOK LIKE, CUZ THIS ISN'T THE VENUE FOR THAT.UM, BUT AS FAR AS THIS COMPLAINT GOES, THAT IS, THOSE ARE MY FEELINGS AT THE MOMENT.
UH, COMMISSIONER MR. CHAIR, UH, COULD, COULD I JUST PLEASE PERMITTED TO EXPLAIN AND POINT OUT THERE HAVE BEEN SOME MISSTATEMENT ABOUT WHAT THE STANDARD HERE IS? NO, MA'AM.
UH, SO IF YOU'RE REFERRING TO THE, UH, SPECIFIC STANDARD THAT'S SET OUT IN THE PROVISION THAT TALKS ABOUT HOW LOBBYING VIOLATIONS ARE REFERRED TO A CITY PROSECUTOR, AWARE OF THAT, UM, WE'RE, WE'RE USING SOME TERMS A LITTLE INTERCHANGEABLY.
I'M, I'M GONNA ASK VERY POLITELY THAT YOU, DO YOU, UH, DON'T INTERJECT AGAIN? THANK YOU.
UM, COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS, CERTAINLY.
SO IN RESPONSE TO YOUR STATEMENT, I, I, I BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE ACTUALLY, I THINK THE BASIS HERE IS A REASONABLE BELIEF OR A REASONABLE GROUND STANDARD.
WE DO NOT HAVE TO, WE, WE DO NOT HAVE TO ARRIVE THAT THERE'S A BELIEF THAT AN ACTUAL VIOLATION OCCURRED.
IN FACT, THERE'S AN INVESTIGATORY PROCEDURE THAT HAPPENS WITH THE, I BELIEVE THE COUNTY ATTORNEY, CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IF WE REFER THIS OVER.
SO IT'S JUST BASED ON WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S REASONABLE GROUNDS FOR THAT BELIEF SO THAT THEY CAN INVESTIGATE IT.
SO THE IDEA THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO ARRIVE AT A CONCLUSION THAT THIS HAPPENED OR OCCURRED BASED ON INFORMATION HERE WOULD NEVER OCCUR BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE INVESTIGATORY AUTHORITY TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.
AND SO WHAT HAS TRANSPIRED HERE IS WE HAVE, UH, A PETITIONER WHO HAS FILED SOME OPEN RECORDS REQUEST, AND THEY HAVE PROVIDED THAT TO US AND GIVEN US GROUNDS FOR WHAT THEY BELIEVE CONSTITUTES A VIOLATION.
AND THE QUESTION BEFORE US IS WHETHER OR NOT OUR REVIEW OF THAT INFORMATION AND THE TESTIMONY THAT WAS TAKEN TODAY SATISFIES THE SPECIFIC AND ARTICULABLE FACTS THAT WOULD GIVE US THAT RATIONAL BASIS, THOSE REASONABLE GROUNDS FOR THE BELIEF THAT A VIOLATION MAY HAVE OCCURRED, NOT DID OCCUR.
SO THAT WOULD BE MY REBUTTAL TO YOUR RESET YOUR, YOUR RECANTATION OF WHAT THE REQUIREMENT IS HERE TODAY.
UH, COMMISSIONER LEVINS, GO AHEAD.
I'M GONNA RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE WITH MY FRIEND HERE BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THAT UNDER THE, THE LANGUAGE OF THIS STATUTE SAYS THE WORD TO DETERMINE IT, THE EXISTENCE OF REASONABLE GROUNDS TO BELIEVE THAT A VIOLATION OF A PROVISION HAS OCCURRED.
IT'S NOT, MAY HAVE, IT'S, HAS OCCURRED.
I, I CAN GET TO MAYBE, BUT THE BAR'S LOW, BUT IT'S HIGHER THAN MAYBE THE WAY I READ THIS LANGUAGE.
AND, UM, PART OF THE PROBLEM WITH THIS IS THERE IS A, THERE'S A REGISTRATION, UH, THRESHOLD BELOW THAT THRESHOLD OF, OF LOBBYING.
I THINK IF WE PASS THIS COMPLAINT ON AND SAY THERE'S REASONABLE GROUNDS TO BELIEVE THAT A VIOLATION OCCURRED, ANYTIME SOMEONE DOES AN OPEN RECORDS REQUEST AND FINDS A FEW EMAILS BETWEEN A SOME INDIVIDUAL AND SOME CITY OFFICIALS, YOU CAN SAY, WELL, IF THERE'S THAT, THERE MIGHT BE MORE.
THE PROBLEM THERE IS SOMETIMES THIS BODY GETS USED AS A POLITICAL TOOL WHERE THE PROCESS IS THE PUNISHMENT.
UM, AND I, WITHOUT MORE, I CAN'T, I CAN'T SAY, OKAY, UM, THIS RESPONDENT'S GONNA HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS.
UM, BECAUSE I, SO MUCH OF IT IS GONNA HAVE TO BE, UM, ON ALL THIS PREPARATION STUFF.
IF IT'S NOT ON THE CALENDAR, LET'S TAKE THE RESPONDENT'S COUNSEL AT HIS WORD, AT LEAST FOR NOW.
I MEAN, IT'S ALL WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US, FRANKLY.
UM, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO GET BETWEEN THE RESPONDENT'S EARS TO FIGURE OUT WHAT ON EARTH SHE WAS DOING AND THINKING ABOUT AND HOW, AND FOR HOW LONG.
AND THAT'S, YOU'RE NEVER GONNA, YOU'RE NEVER GONNA GET THERE.
UM, AND I'M, I DON'T LIKE, AND I'M NOT, I'M NOT CON MS. PADILLA, I'M NOT SAYING THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO USE THE PROCESS AS A PUNISHMENT.
I DON'T MEAN THAT, BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, HAVING TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS OF BEING INVESTIGATED IS A PUNISHMENT.
I DON'T, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ENOUGH TO DEMAND THAT AS A RESPONDENT.
UM, I'LL, UH, I SEE COMMISSIONER DANBURG BEFORE, UM, UH, I GET
[02:05:01]
TO HER, I JUST WANTED TO, FOR CLARITY'S SAKE, UH, STATE CLEARLY THE STANDARDS THAT ARE IN STA OUR ORDINANCES.UM, SO NORMALLY AT A PRELIMINARY HEARING, WHAT THE OPERATIVE CODE IS, TWO DASH SEVEN DASH FOUR FOUR, UM, WHERE WE ARE SUPPOSED TO, UH, SEE IF THERE ARE REASONABLE GROUNDS BELIEVE THAT A VIOLATION OF A PROVISION HAS OCCURRED.
UM, TWO S SEVEN S 50, I DON'T THINK IS SUBSTANTIVELY DIFFERENT.
BUT FOR CLARITY, WHAT IT SAYS IS THE COMMISSION SHALL REFER AN ALLEGATION FOR WHICH THE COMMISSION FINDS A REASONABLE BASIS TO BELIEVE THAT THERE MAY BE A VIOLATION TO THE CITY ATTORNEY FOR PROSECUTION.
I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANYTHING SUBSTANTIALLY DIFFERENT THERE.
UM, I PERSONALLY DON'T THINK THAT THERE IS, UM, IT SOUNDS LIKE, UH, JUST DIFFERENT WORDS MEANING THE SAME THING.
UM, THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS ON THAT QUESTION THOUGH.
UM, COMMISSIONER DANK, GO AHEAD.
UM, COMMISSIONER LOVING LEVINS ISN'T A CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, BUT AS A FORMER ONE, I CAN SAY HE'S GOT THE CONSTITUTION WELL, WELL, IN HIS, UH, PROCEDURAL BRAIN, WE KNOW THAT THE CITY IS CONFLICTED OUT OF THIS.
AND SO FOR US TO FIND THESE GROUNDS, IT'S GONNA GO TO THE COUNTY AND IT'S GONNA BE PROSECUTED AS A CRIMINAL ISSUE.
OUR STANDARD IS NOT THE CRIMINAL ISSUE STANDARD, BUT THE PROSECUTORS, IF WE SAY THERE ARE GROUNDS, IS IN FACT A PROSECUTOR WHO HAS TO AGREE WITH CRIMINAL LEVEL OF, UM, ACCOUNTABILITY.
SO YES, THE STATUTE DOESN'T SAY MAYBE A VIOLATION HAS OCCURRED, POSSIBLY A VIOLATION HAS OCCURRED REALLY BECAUSE OF WHERE WE ARE IN THIS PROCESS.
AGAIN, IT'S COMPLETELY ON THE COMPLAINANT'S SHOULDERS, THE DEFENSE, THE RESPONDENTS DIDN'T HAVE TO RESPOND.
IT'S ELUSIVE IF THEY DID, BUT IF YOU JUST LOOK AT THE STATUTES, IF YOU JUST LOOK AT THE ORDINANCES, I, I, YOU KNOW, WHILE I, AS I, AS I SAID EARLIER, THE, THE COMPLAINANT IS A VERY, VERY EFFECTIVE PRESENTER OF HER POINTS.
IT'S JUST THAT THOSE POINTS DO NOT GO WITHIN THE FOUR CORNERS OF WHAT IT IS THAT WE ARE SUPPOSED TO DO TO SEND IT ON TO A CRIMINAL PROSECUTION.
THERE ARE JUST TOO MANY IF MAYBE POSSIBLY TO SAY THAT WE DO THAT WE HAVE PROBABLE CAUSE.
UM, UH, I'LL GO COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, THEN STANTON BRIEFLY.
I JUST WANNA SAY ONE MORE TIME, UM, FOR THE RECORD, UH, WE ARE LOOKING FOR QUOTE UNQUOTE, A REASONABLE BASIS TO BELIEVE THAT THERE MAY BE A VIOLATION.
THAT IS, THAT IS, THOSE ARE THE WORDS.
UM, I HAVE MY THOUGHTS ABOUT WHAT THOSE WORDS MEAN, BUT I JUST WANT THEM CLEARLY SO THAT WE'RE AT LEAST USING THE SAME VOCABULARY.
COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, MR. GREENBERG, CAN I JUST, THE ONLY REASON I WANNA INTERRUPT IS TO SAY I QUOTED THE WRONG LANGUAGE.
YOUR LANGUAGE IS CORRECT AND I STAND CORRECTED AS TO WHAT THE STANDARD IS.
AND SO WITH THAT, YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I WAS GONNA SAY.
DO WE NEED TO GO TO, UM, EXECUTIVE SESSION AGAIN OR IS WHAT IT SAYS IN 2 7 50 C WHAT APPLIES, WHICH SAYS MAY BE A VIOLATION, NOT HAS WHAT HAVE TWO,
[02:10:01]
UH, CAUSE IT'S SPECIFIC TO VI LOBBYING VIOLATIONS.SO WHAT, WHAT I AM, WHAT I AM HANGING, UH, MY SENTIMENTS ON, WHAT, WHAT MY, MY THRESHOLD PERSONALLY, WHEN I READ THIS STANDARD HERE, IS WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S A REASONABLE BASIS.
UM, SO THAT TO ME REMOVES, UM, UH, CONCOCTING SITUATIONS IN MY MIND, UM, MAKING ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT WORK PATTERNS, UM, TRYING TO DIVINE MORE THAN WHAT THE RECORD SUGGESTS.
I'M JUST ASKING, ARE WE USING TWO DASH SEVEN 50 C? YES.
SO WE DON'T NEED TO GO BACK TO EXECUTIVE SESSION.
UNLESS THE MAJORITY, IF THE COMMISSION REALLY WANTED TO, UM, THEN WE COULD, WE COULD DO THAT.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS, GO AHEAD.
SO I AM A CRIMINAL LAWYER, AND, UM, WE ACTUALLY GO THROUGH THE BURDENS OF PROOF AND BOY DIER PRETTY REGULARLY, AND I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE HERE HAS SERVED ON A JURY PANEL, BUT IF YOU DID, YOU PROBABLY SAW A CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYER GET ON THE STAND AND SAY, HEY, THE HIGHEST BURDEN IN CRIMINAL LAW IS BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT.
RIGHT BENEATH THAT, WE HAVE A STANDARD CALL, CLEAR AND CONVINCING EVIDENCE, AND THAT'S WHAT IS REQUIRED TO TAKE SOMEONE'S KIDS AWAY FROM 'EM.
IN A CPS CASE, ALL OF MY CIVIL LAWYER FRIENDS HERE ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE STANDARD OF PREPONDERANCE OF EVIDENCE, WHICH IS MORE LIKELY THAN NOT, THAT'S ANYTHING MORE THAN 50% OF THE EVIDENCE, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE'RE DEALING WITH LESS A STANDARD THAT IS MUCH, MUCH LESS THAN THAT.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND.
AND IF WE NEED CLARIFICATION ON THAT, I WOULD MOVE THAT WE GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION SO THAT WE CAN SPEAK TO THE LAWYER ABOUT IT.
BUT THAT'S MY 100% UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THIS STANDARD IS.
SO, UH, I AM HAPPY TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION IF COMMISSIONERS WANT IT.
UM, TO, I WILL SAY FOR MY OWN PEACE OF MIND, TO TAKE THE ANALOGY TO THE CRIMINAL CONTEXT, UM, I, I DON'T SEE 26 HOURS OF LOBBYING IN THE CAR AS AN OFFICER WHO PULLED SOMEONE OVER, RIGHT? UH, AND, AND I DON'T EVEN, UH, YOU KNOW, SEE SOMETHING THAT I THINK WOULD BE MISTAKEN AS 26 HOURS IN THE CAR.
UM, WHEREAS, UH, YOU KNOW, IF I WERE AN OFFICER AND I PULLED SOMEONE OVER, UM, IF I THOUGHT I SMELLED SOMETHING OR SAW SOMETHING PERFECTLY FINE, PROBABLE CAUSE, UM, THAT'S, I, THAT'S HOW I'M PERSONALLY CALCULATING THE REASONABLE BASIS THAT I THINK I'M SUPPOSED TO HAVE TO REFER TO PROSECUTION.
UM, BUT IF, IF COMMISSIONERS WANT TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION TO TALK OVER THIS STANDARD FURTHER, HAPPY TO DO THAT.
COMMISSIONER MCCORMICK, I JUST WANNA MAKE A COMMENT ABOUT WHEN YOU HAVE A MEETING WITH A BUNCH OF COUNCIL MEMBERS AND IT'S, YOU SAY IT'S AN HOUR, YOU'RE NOT GONNA TALK ABOUT THE SAME TOPIC FOR AN HOUR, GET A GRIP BECAUSE YOU'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT EVERYTHING ELSE AND THINGS THAT THEY WANNA TALK ABOUT.
AND EVEN IF YOU SPEND AN HOUR WITH THEM, IT'S NOT GONNA BE ON ONE SUBJECT.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER COMMENTS? UM, YEAH.
I JUST WANNA CLARIFY WHEN WE, IF, IF WE DETERMINE TO REFER THIS ALLEGATION TO THE CITY ATTORNEY, THAT IS NOT, WE ARE NOT SAYING, HEY, THERE'S BEEN A VIOLATION AND THEREFORE YOU NEED TO PROSECUTE.
IT IS JUST A REFERRAL OF THIS CASE TO THEM, FOR THEM, FOR THE CITY ATTORNEY TO GO THROUGH THEIR PROCESS AND INVESTIGATIVE.
AND AT ANY POINT, IT COULD BE AT THE VERY BEGINNING, THEY MAY CHOOSE NOT TO EVEN CONTINUE TO LOOK INTO THE CASE.
SO WE ARE REALLY JUST REFERRING, WE ARE NOT SAYING YOU NEED TO PROSECUTE, RIGHT? I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S VERY CLEAR.
SO COMMISSIONERS, IT IS CURRENTLY, UM, 9 48 OUT OF AN ABUNDANCE OF CAUTION.
UM, I'M GOING TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE GO PAST 10 O'CLOCK, UM, JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T, UH, IT HAS HAPPENED BEFORE WHERE WE'VE RUN THROUGH THAT TIME ON ACCIDENT IN THE MIDDLE OF A PRELIMINARY HEARING, UM, WHICH FORCED US
[02:15:01]
TO TAKE THAT PRELIMINARY HEARING TO THE NEXT MONTH.SO I MOVE THAT WE EXTEND OUR MEETING PAST 10 O'CLOCK.
SECOND FROM COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE RAISE YOUR HAND AND I WILL COUNT THEM AND NAME THEM AS I SEE THEM.
SEC COMMISSIONERS, TE YUKA AND DANBURG.
LOVENS WILLIAMS, MYSELF, SECRETARY STANTON, COMMISSIONERS GREENBERG AND MCCORMICK.
UM, COMMISSIONER DANBURG, GO AHEAD.
AND THEN WHAT, WHILE I HAVE NO PROBLEM GOING INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION AGAIN BECAUSE I REALLY RESPECT HAVING ALL THE COMMISSIONERS HAVE ALL OF THEIR LEGAL QUESTIONS ANSWERED, I ALSO PERCEIVE THAT WE DO NOT HAVE SIX VOTES TO PROCEED.
SO I'M NOT GONNA VOTE FOR AGAINST, I'M FOR, I'M FOR CONTINUING IT.
I'M NOT GONNA VOTE FOR AGAINST GOING BACK INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION, BUT I'M JUST SAYING MY PERCEPTION IS WE DO NOT HAVE SIX BOATS TO CONTINUE.
I'M HERE WITH Y'ALL ALL NIGHT, IF THAT IS IMPORTANT TO YOU.
THE, THE MOTION TO GO PAST 10 O'CLOCK WAS NOT A SUGGESTION,
UM, COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS, GO AHEAD.
I I JUST WANT TO REVISIT THIS ISSUE ABOUT THE COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE OR ANY PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE IN GENERAL.
ONE IS TO PROSECUTE ON BEHALF OF THE STATE OF TEXAS.
THE OTHER IS TO PURSUE THE ENDS OF JUSTICE.
AND OFTENTIMES THE ENDS OF, OF JUSTICE REQUIRE THAT THEY DISMISS CASES BECAUSE THEIR INVESTIGATION HAS RENDERED EVIDENCE THAT IS CONCLUSIVE OR WOULD SUGGEST THAT THEY WERE NOT ABLE TO MEET THEIR BURDEN AT TRIAL.
AND SO, AGAIN, WITH REGARDS TO THIS PARTICULAR BOARD, OUR REFERRAL OVER TO THE PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE IS SIMPLY TO ALLOW, UH, ON BEHALF OF THE CITY FOR THE PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE TO UTILIZE, ITS, ITS FULL BREADTH OF RESOURCES AND INVESTIGATE TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT A VIOLATION HAS ACTUALLY OCCURRED.
COMMISSIONER LEVINS, NOW THAT I'VE BEEN CORRECTED ABOUT THE, THE APPROPRIATE LANGUAGE AND, AND IT DOES IN FACT SAY REASONABLE BASIS TO BELIEVE THAT THERE MAY BE A VIOLATION.
UM, THE DIFFICULTY, I HA BUT TO ME THAT IS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT I THOUGHT THE APPLICABLE LANGUAGE WAS, WAS GROUNDS TO BELIEVE THAT A VIOLATION OF A PROVISION HAS OCCURRED.
THE PROBLEM I HAVE IS THAT, AND, AND MR. WILLIAMS, MAYBE YOU CAN HELP ME UNDERSTAND THIS, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU GET UNDER THAT BAR IF YOU GET ONE EMAIL FROM A PUBLIC INFORMATION REQUEST.
UM, AND I DON'T THINK, I DON'T THINK THAT WE CAN INTERPRET THAT TO BE, IT MAY, IT MAY BE THE LOWEST BAR THAT THERE IS, BUT IT'S STILL A BAR AND THERE'S GOTTA BE SOME WAY TO GET UNDER IT.
AND YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BE A WORLD CHAMPION LIMBO, UH, COMPETITOR TO GET UNDER IT.
UM, SO THERE'S A, THERE'S A TENSION IN THE LANGUAGE BETWEEN 2 7 44 AND 2 7 50.
AND TO HEAR THE EVIDENCE THAT WE HAVE, IT JUST SEEMS, COULD I GET TO THERE, THERE MAY BE A VIOLATION.
BUT IF I CAN'T FIGURE OUT HOW I CAN, HOW, AS LONG AS THERE'S ONE PIECE OF EVIDENCE, SOMEBODY COMES IN AND SAYS, I SAW THIS PARTICULAR PERSON MEETING WITH A CITY COUNCIL MEMBER, AND THEY SAID, I THINK YOU SHOULD VOTE FOR AGENDA ITEM THREE.
WELL, THAT, THAT MAY MEAN THAT THAT'S A LOBBYIST THAT CLEARS THE BAR.
AND I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S HOW WE SHOULD INTERPRET THIS AND APPLY IT.
UM, I'M NOT SURE THAT'S THE CLEANEST WAY TO ADDRESS IT, BUT THAT'S WHERE MY BRAIN'S AT RIGHT NOW.
UM, COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, GO AHEAD.
UM, THIS ISN'T ONE EMAIL, THIS IS A PIR OF NEARLY 200 PAGES.
UM, BUT YOU KNOW, THE NUMBER OF PAGES ISN'T THE POINT, BUT I THINK AT THIS POINT, WE'RE JUST TALKING IN CIRCLES, SO I'LL MAKE THE MOTION, UM, NOT NECESSARILY BELIEVING THE VOTES ARE THERE, UM, FOR THE, THAT THE COMMISSION FINDS A REASONABLE BASIS TO BELIEVE THAT THERE MAY
[02:20:01]
BE A VIOLATION AND WE THEREFORE REFER THE ALLEGATION TO THE CITY ATTORNEY FOR PROSECUTION.IS THERE A SECOND? I SECOND THAT MOTION SECOND FROM SECRETARY STANTONS.
SO THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR DISCUSSION ON THAT MOTION IF COMMISSIONERS WANT TO HAVE IT.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS DISCUSSION.
UM, JUST IN RESPONSE TO COMMISSIONER LEVINS, UM, REQUEST FOR CLARITY.
I DON'T, I DON'T THINK THAT THERE IS ANY CLARITY.
I THINK THIS IS A FACT FINDER QUESTION.
UH, I THINK IN THE CRIMINAL LAW WORLD, UM, WE REFER THESE TO MAGISTRATES TO EXERCISE THEIR INDEPENDENT DISCRETION AND ARRIVING AT THESE CONCLUSIONS.
I THINK IN THIS PARTICULAR WORLD, THAT RESPONSIBILITY IS BEING DELEGATED TO US, AND I THINK THAT WE WILL ALL ARRIVE AT OUR OWN CONCLUSIONS THROUGH OUR OWN SET OF EXPERIENCES, BELIEFS IN WHAT WE'VE SEEN HERE TODAY.
AND SO I DON'T KNOW THAT WE WILL ALL GET TO THE SAME DESTINATION ON THIS.
SO IN YOUR ATTEMPT TO GET CLARITY, I HOPE THAT I HAVE MADE IT READILY APPARENT MY REQUEST FOR CLA CLARITY WAS DENIED
LET ME GET MY AGENDA IN FRONT OF ME SO THAT I'VE GOT EVERYONE'S NAMES IN ORDER.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS. I SUPPORT THE MOTION.
COMMISSIONER TENA, YOU GOT PLEASE RESTATE THE MOTION.
THE, THE MOTION IS, UH, I BELIEVE IT, IT FOLLOWED THE WORDS OF TWO DASH SEVEN DASH 50 C.
UH, THE MOTION IS TO MOVE, TO REFER THIS ALLEGATION, UM, RATHER THAT THE, THE MOTION IS THAT THE COMMISSION FINDS A REASONABLE BASIS TO BELIEVE THAT A VIOLATION MAY HAVE OCCURRED AND TO REFER THAT ALLEGATION TO THE CITY ATTORNEY FOR PROSECUTIONS.
SO, UH, COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS WAS I COMMISSIONER TENDA YUCA? I DO SUPPORT THE MOTION.
COMMISSIONER MCCORMICK? NO CHAIR.
THAT IS 1, 2, 3, 4 EYES AND 1, 2, 3, 4 NAS.
UM, WITH OUR TWO ABSENCES, THE MOTION DOES NOT PASS.
UM, I HAVE ONE SIDEBAR QUESTION FOR, UM, CITY LEGAL OR OUTSIDE COUNCIL IF YOU GIMME ONE MOMENT.
SO I HAVE BEEN ADVISED THAT WE DO NOT NEED TO TAKE AN ADDITIONAL VOTE TO DISMISS THE COMPLAINT, UM, BECAUSE WE FAILED TO REACH THE NECESSARY VOTES TO REFER IT TO CITY PROSECUTION.
UM, I WANT TO TAKE A MOMENT TO THANK, UH, COMMISSIONERS FOR YOUR PARTICIPATION AND FOR YOUR DISCUSSION.
UH, THANK CITY STAFF FOR STAYING WITH US THIS LATE, AND PARTICULARLY TO THANK THE PARTIES, UM, TO THANK THE COMPLAINANT FOR THE WORK THAT YOU PUT INTO THE COMPLAINT.
IT WAS A THOUGHTFUL ONE AND FOR RESPONDENT, UM, FOR PROVIDING INFORMATION AND FOR APPEARING HERE, UM, TONIGHT.
UM, COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS. YEAH, I WANT TO THANK COMMISSIONER GREENBERG FOR RECOGNIZING, UM, THAT WE NEEDED TO PUT THAT MOTION FORWARD BEFORE IT WAS TOO LATE.
[02:25:01]
THE ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION'S RULES AND PROCEDURES, AND THAT DOES ALLOW IN CASES OF FAILURE TO ALLEGE VIOLATIONS WHEN THE, WHEN THE COMMISSION HAS DETERMINED THE COMPLAINT DOESN'T ALLEGE A VIOLATION, THEN BEFORE THE COMPLAINT IS DISMISSED FOR FAILURE TO ALLEGE THE VIOLATION, THE COMPLAINANT CAN BE PERMITTED ONE OPPORTUNITY TO REVISE AND RESUBMIT THE COMPLAINT.UM, SO, SO AM I CORRECT IN UNDERSTANDING THAT I WILL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVISE AND RESUBMIT MY COMPLAINT? MS. PADILLA, UH, YOU, YOU ARE, YOU ARE WELCOME TO SUBMIT WHATEVER YOU WOULD LIKE TO THE COMMISSION.
UM, AND, UH, I AS CHAIR, UM, I WILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO FULFILL MY ROLE IN MAKING JURISDICTIONAL DETERMINATIONS ON THOSE COMPLAINTS.
UM, SO, UH, THAT BASICALLY CONCLUDES OUR AGENDA.
I'LL NOTE, UM, COMMISSIONERS THAT THERE WAS ANOTHER AGENDA ITEM FOUR, UM, THAT WAS DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON APPROVAL OF A STATEMENT AND OR VIDEO.
UM, THIS IS, UH, VICE CHAIR KILLS, UH, UH, PARTICULAR PRIORITY, UM, WAS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT IT WASN'T READY FOR PRESENTATION TODAY.
UM, SO WE WILL POSTPONE IT TO A FUTURE MEETING.
THAT DOES CONCLUDE ALL OF OUR AGENDA ITEMS. UM, COMMISSIONERS, THIS IS TIME FOR FUTURE ITEMS, UM, FOR FUTURE MEETINGS OR ANY NECESSARY ANNOUNCEMENTS.
UM, IT IS LATER THAN I WANTED IT TO BE FOR MY OWN SLEEP HABITS.
UM, UH, AND I WANT TO AGAIN, THANK CITY, OUR NEW EXECUTIVE LIAISON, UM, WAJIHA.
UM, AND I WANT TO THANK OUTSIDE COUNCIL, UM, UH, MR. NICHOLS AND MR. GLENN, WHO I BELIEVE IS STILL ON THE LINE.
UH, THE TIME IS, WHAT IS IT? 10 O'CLOCK ON THE DOT.
WE DIDN'T EVEN NEED THE MOTION.
UM, AND THE, UH, THE ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION IS NOW ADJOURNED.
THEY TALK ABOUT ANYTHING THAT CAME TO OH, THE MAD