Jul 05, 2023 Historic Landmark

IF, IF YOU'RE READY, I THINK WE CAN CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER.

[A. CALL TO ORDER]

WELL, GOOD EVENING.

THIS IS THE HISTORIC LANDMARK COMMISSION MEETING OF WEDNESDAY, JULY 5TH.

UH, IT IS NOW 6:01 PM UH, WE HAVE BETWEEN OUR COMMISSIONERS PRESENT AND VIRTUAL, WE HAVE A QUORUM.

AND I'M BEN HEIM, STAFF, THE CHAIR OF THE COMMISSION.

I WILL READ THROUGH THE, UH, AGENDA AND, UH, MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN GO THROUGH THE CONSENT AGENDA, UH, AND SOME OF THE OTHER ACTIONS, UH, BEFORE WE PROCEED.

UM, HOWEVER, WE HAVE A COUPLE OF ITEMS QUICKLY THAT I'D LIKE TO TAKE CARE OF.

UH, WE HAVE A FULL ROSTER OF MEMBERS AT LONG LAST, AND, UH, I APOLOGIZE, UH, DR.

DUDLEY FOR PUTTING YOU ON THE SPOT.

BUT, UH, IF YOU WOULD, WOULDN'T MIND JUST INTRODUCING YOURSELF, UH, AS THE OUR NEWEST MEMBER.

GOOD EVENING.

I AM DR.

TARA DUDLEY.

I'M AN ASSISTANT PROFESSOR IN THE SCHOOL OF ARCHITECTURE AT THE UNI UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS AT AUSTIN.

I HAVE BEEN A HISTORIC PRESERVATION CONSULTANT HERE IN THE AUSTIN AREA FOR OVER 20 YEARS.

UM, FORMERLY A FULL-TIME EMPLOYEE OF H H M AND ASSOCIATES, AND I'M EXCITED TO BE ON THE COMMISSION.

SO THANK YOU, UH, COMMISSIONER DUDLEY.

UH, I, I WOULD SAY THAT'S BEEN EQUALED BY OUR EXCITEMENT TO HAVE YOU.

SO WELCOME, .

UH, DO WE HAVE, BEFORE I GO ON WITH THE, UH, READING OF THE FULL AGENDA, DO WE HAVE ANY CITIZENS COMMUNICATION? YES, WE DO HAVE, UH, MEGAN KING.

MS. KING, PLEASE COME TO THE MICROPHONE.

[B. PUBLIC COMMUNICATION: GENERAL]

NOPE, NOT QUITE.

HELLO.

HEY, MEGAN KING, POLICY AND OUTREACH PLANNER FOR PRESERVATION AUSTIN, UM, WITH MY MONTHLY UPDATE, UM, THE CALL FOR NOMINATIONS FOR OUR PRESERVATION MERIT AWARDS FOR 2023 IS NOW OPEN.

UM, IT ALL ELIGIBLE PROJ PROJECTS COMPLETED IN THE CITY OF AUSTIN BETWEEN JANUARY 1ST, 2021, AND THE APPLICATION DUE DATE OF AUGUST 11TH, 2023 ARE ELIGIBLE.

UM, AWARD CATEGORIES INCLUDE PRESERVATION AWARDS FOR BRICK AND MORTAR PROJECTS, STEWARDSHIP AWARDS AND SPECIAL RECOGNITION AWARDS FOR ADVOCACY EDUCATION PROJECTS, PUBLIC SERVICE MEDIA PROJECTS, AND THE LIKE.

UM, SO PEOPLE CAN APPLY FOR THAT BETWEEN NOW AND AUGUST ELEVENTH@PRESERVATIONAUSTIN.ORG.

UM, WE ALSO JUST AWARDED A NEW SLATE OF SUMMER GRANTS, UM, WE'RE VERY EXCITED ABOUT.

UM, SO I'LL JUST KIND OF GIVE YOU AN OVERVIEW OF THE, OF THE GRANT AWARDS THAT WE, WE'VE MADE THIS SUMMER.

UM, WE HAVE A HOME IN, UM, THE ROGERS, WASHINGTON HOLY CROSS HISTORIC DISTRICT THAT'S GOING TO GET, UM, EXTENSIVE INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR RESTORATION WORK.

UM, CHATEAU BELLEVUE, HOME OF THE AUSTIN WOMEN'S CLUB, UM, RECEIVED A GRANT FOR RESTORATION OF THE THIRD FLOOR EXTERIOR DOORS OF THE BUILDING.

UM, KAREN CO COKER, UM, RECEIVED AN EDUCATION GRANT FOR AN ANIMATED FILM ABOUT THE HISTORY OF INTEGRATION AT BARTON SPRINGS CALLED JUMP WOMEN'S AT BARTON SPRINGS.

AND THEN WE HAVE A COUPLE OTHER BRICK AND MORTAR PROJECTS IN EAST AUSTIN.

UM, THE ROBERTSON CLINIC, UH, RECEIVED BRICK AND MORTAR FUNDING FOR, UM, HVAC FOUNDATION REPAIR AND ADDICT DECONTAMINATION, AND THE HEMAN SWEAT HOUSE, WHICH WAS FEATURED ON OUR, UH, HOME STORE THIS YEAR.

UH, ALSO RECEIVED A BRICK AND MORTAR GRANT FOR, UH, PAINTING OF THE SIDING OF SIGNING AND TRIM REPLACEMENT AND SCREEN REPAIR.

SO A LOT OF REALLY EXCELLENT PROJECTS THAT WERE VERY EXCITED TO AWARD.

UM, WE ALSO WANTED TO SHARE FROM, ALSO FROM OUR GRANT PROGRAM, A RECENTLY COMPLETED PROJECT.

UM, WE RECENTLY AWARDED A GRANT TO THE OWNERS OF THE SISNERO HERNANDEZ HOUSE IN THE ROBERTSON, STEWART AND MAYOR HISTORIC DISTRICT, AND THEY RECEIVED A BRICK AND MORTAR GRANT TO SUPPORT PAINTING AND WOOD CLADDING REPAIR.

UM, AND YEAH, WE'RE VERY PROUD TO SHARE THAT THIS PROJECT HAS BEEN COMPLETED.

UM, THIS HOME IS SOME PRETTY INTERESTING HISTORY.

IT WAS HOME TO THE CIRO HERNANDEZ FAMILY SINCE THE 1940S.

FIVE GENERATIONS OF AUSTINITES WERE RAISED IN THE RESIDENCE AT, UM, ON EIGHTH STREET HERE.

UM, KEN DERIO HERNANDEZ, A LONG-TIME OWNER OF THE 1910 HOME, SERVED AS THE TREASURER OF GUADALUPE NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION, A NONPROFIT AFFORDABLE HOUSING ORGANIZATION DEDICATED TO PRESERVING BOTH THE ARCHITECTURAL AND CULTURAL FABRIC OF THE COMMUNITY.

SO WE'RE VERY EXCITED TO SEE, UM, OUR, OUR GRANT FUNDING OUT IN THE WORLD AND PROJECTS GETTING COMPLETED, AND WE'RE EXCITED TO CELEBRATE THAT HERE WITH YOU.

AND IF, UM, WE, OUR GRANT CYCLE, UH, IS BI-ANNUAL, SO IF ANYBODY IS INTERESTED IN APPLYING FOR A GRANT , THEY CAN DO SO@PRESERVATIONAUSTIN.ORG.

FANTASTIC.

UH, ANY QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONERS,

[00:05:01]

UH, FOR MS. KING, LET'S SAY, AGAIN, COMPLIMENTS TO, UH, ALL THE GOOD WORK AND REALLY HAPPY TO HEAR ABOUT THE SUCCESSES.

UM, WE DO HAVE ONE MORE, UM, I CAN'T QUITE READ THE NAME.

SO IF YOU SIGNED UP FOR, UH, PUBLIC COMMUNICATION, THE FLOOR IS YOURS.

DO WE HAVE ANOTHER CITIZEN COMMUNICATION? NOW? THIS IS ABOUT ANYTHING THAT'S NOT SPECIFIC TO THE AGENDA, BUT, UM, YOU'LL BE GIVEN THREE MINUTES.

WELL, I GUESS THAT'S IT.

WE CAN THE NEXT MEETING.

SO LET ME GO THROUGH, UH, THE ORDER OF BUSINESS.

WE HAVE ON ITEM ONE, THE, UM, APPROVAL OF MINUTES.

THESE ARE OFFERED FOR CONSENT APPROVAL.

WE WILL HAVE TWO BRIEFINGS.

UH, THE FIRST ONE WILL BE, UH, RECENT PRESERVATION TRIUMPHS.

UH, MS. ALLEN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR AS ASSEMBLING SOME, UH, GOOD DATA FOR US.

UH, WE'LL ALSO HAVE ON NUMBER THREE, A BRIEFING ON THE NINE 16 CONGRESS AVENUE, THE LAMAR BLOCK.

UM, THOSE WON'T REQUIRE ANY SPECIFIC ACTIONS ON ITEM NUMBER FOUR.

UH, THESE WILL BE THE, UH, HISTORIC ZONING APPLICATIONS.

WE HAVE, UH, 16, EXCUSE ME, 1306 GUADALUPE STREET, UH, THE ADAMS ZILLER HOUSE.

AND THAT IS POSTED FOR A DISCUSSION.

UH, ITEM NUMBER FIVE, WE WILL BE LOOKING THROUGH THE HERITAGE GRANT RECIPIENT APPLICATIONS.

AND SPECIFICALLY, UH, WE HAVE THE 1316 WEST SIXTH STREET, THE SMOOT FAMILY HOME.

UH, THE RESTORATION WORK THERE.

UH, APPROVAL IS OFFERED FOR CONSENT ON ITEM NUMBER SIX.

THESE ARE LANDMARKS, UH, AND LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT APPLICATIONS.

UH, ITEM NUMBER SIX IS 1115 EAST FIFTH STREET.

UH, ON THAT, THERE IS AN APPLICANT REQUESTED POSTPONEMENT, UH, ON 41 0 9.

UH, EXCUSE ME.

UH, ITEM NUMBER SEVEN.

THIS IS 41 0 9 AVENUE A.

UH, THIS WAS OFFERED CON FOR CONSENT.

UH, I UNDERSTAND THAT WE HAVE SOME WHO WANT TO DISCUSS THAT, AND WE WILL PULL THAT FOR DISCUSSION.

UM, I DISCUSS IT, NOT GONNA PASS CONSENT.

UM, THE QUESTION IS IF, UH, IT'S GOING TO PASS ON CONSENT OR WOULD WE DISCUSS IT? I THINK THE, UH, IDEA IS THAT WE POTENTIALLY WOULD HAVE THAT GO TO THE ARCHITECTURE REVIEW COMMITTEE, AND IT WOULD BE POSTPONED IF THAT WAS THE ACTION.

UH, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE COMMISSION, BUT THAT WOULD REQUIRE US TO POSTPONE, UH, TO PULL THAT, IS THAT CORRECT? JUST TO CLARIFY, THE COMMISSION IS PULLING IT FOR DISCUSSION, NOT PUBLIC.

SO THE COMMISSION IS PULLING IT FOR DISCUSSION.

OH, OKAY.

NUMBER 16 14 0 9 PAYNE AVENUE.

UM, ITEM EIGHT.

THIS IS, UM, 2000 MAPLE AVENUE.

UH, THIS IS A PROPERTY IN THE ROGERS, WASHINGTON HOLY CROSS LOCAL DISTRICT.

UH, THAT IS A DISCUSSION ITEM, UH, NUMBER 9 14 12 WEST SIX AND A HALF STREET, UH, THAT JOHNSON HOUSE.

UH, THAT IS A DISCUSSION, UH, HAVING TO DO WITH FENCING.

THE FOLLOWING ITEMS ARE NATIONAL REGISTERED DISTRICT PERMITS, UH, THAT HAVE BEEN, UH, FILED ITEM TEN FIVE TWELVE EAST MONROE STREET.

UH, THE APPLICANT HAS REQUESTED A POSTPONEMENT.

ITEM 11, UH, THAT WAS 1315 AND 1317 NEWING AVENUE.

THAT APPLICATION HAS BEEN WITHDRAWN, IS NO LONGER ON THE AGENDA AND REQUIRES NO ACTION.

ITEM NUMBER 12 14 0 9 ALTA VISTA AVENUE.

UH, THAT'S IN TRAVIS HEIGHTS, FAIRVIEW PARK NATIONAL REGISTER DISTRICT.

UH, THAT IS ALSO A POSTPONED, UH, REQUEST FROM THE APPLICANT.

WE HAVE, UH, 3 0 1 CONGRESS AVENUE, UH, THAT'S WITHIN THE CONGRESS AVENUE NATIONAL REGISTER DISTRICT.

UH, THAT IS AN ITEM OFFERED FOR CONSENT.

UH, THE NEXT ITEMS ARE DEMOLITION AND RELOCATION PERMITS.

UH, ITEM NUMBER 14 AT 1509 EAST 14TH STREET.

UH, THIS ITEM IS OFFERED FOR CONSENT, UM, WITH, WITH A, A, A SMALL COMMENT THAT I'M GONNA PUT IN THE RECORD WHERE SEVERAL HAVE EXPRESSED TO ME, UH, THEY MIGHT WISH THAT THEY TOOK THE EXISTING BUILDING AND MOVED IT TO THE BACK TO BUILD WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO TWO STORIES INSTEAD OF TRYING TO BUILD IT ON TOP OF THE BUILDING.

BUT, UH, ALL IN ALL, UNLESS SOMEONE WANTS TO PULL IT, IT'S, IT'S, UH, GOING TO BE APPROVED BY CONSENT.

UM, ITEM NUMBER 15, 400 BRADY LANE.

UH, THAT IS AN APPLICANT REQUESTED POSTPONEMENT.

ITEM

[00:10:01]

UH, THIS IS A DEMOLITION REQUEST.

UH, IT IS OFFERED BY CONSENT ITEM NUMBER 17.

THIS IS 6 0 6 EAST THIRD STREET.

UH, THIS IS A RELOCATION REQUEST.

UH, THIS IS POSTED FOR DISCUSSION ITEM NUMBER 18.

THIS IS 6 0 8 EAST THIRD STREET, AND IT IS, UH, PAIRED WITH, UM, THE PRIOR ONE.

UH, THE TWO ACTUALLY WILL BOTH BE POSTED FOR DISCUSSION.

ITEM NUMBER 19, UH, 10 0 6 EAST 39TH STREET.

UH, THAT IS, UM, OFFERED, UH, THAT IS, UH, RECOMMENDED FOR A STAFF REQUESTED POSTPONEMENT.

EVIDENTLY THERE WAS A NOTIFICATION ISSUE.

SO WE, WE, WE WILL HAVE TO POSTPONE THAT.

UM, NO ACTION WILL BE REQUIRED.

UH, THE FOLLOWING ITEMS WILL BE, UH, DEALING WITH OUR COMMITTEES AND SOME POSSIBLE ACTIONS.

UH, WE'LL TALK ABOUT POPULATING SOME OF THESE.

AND THAT WILL ALSO BE FOLLOWING ON ITEM 24, DISCUSSION OF OUR, UH, COMING UP, UH, TRAINING AND RETREAT SESSION ON JULY 24TH.

SO LET ME GO THEN TO THE ITEMS THAT WE HAVE LISTED FOR CONSENT.

UH, AND THOSE WOULD BE ITEM NUMBER 5 13 16 WEST SIXTH.

AND THAT WOULD BE ITEM NUMBER 13 3 0 1 CONGRESS.

THAT IS ITEM 14 15 0 9 EAST 14TH STREET, ITEM 16 14 0 9 PAYNE AVENUE.

AND THOSE ARE THE CONSENT REQUESTS.

JUST TO CLARIFY, WOULD YOU LIKE TO INCLUDE THE MEETING MINUTES AS WELL? I'M SORRY.

THE MEETING MINUTES AS WELL.

SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER FEATHERSTON.

SO I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION FOR THE CONSENT AGENDA.

MOTION TO APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA.

COMMISSIONER BOSCH, DO I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR INDICATE BY SAYING AYE.

ANY OPPOSED? OKAY.

THAT PASSES.

AND ANYBODY WHO PROJECT WAS ON THE CONSENT AND IS PASSED, UH, THOSE ITEMS HAVE BEEN APPROVED.

UH, DO NOTE THAT THERE ARE SOME REQUIREMENTS OF STAFF WHEN IT COMES TO DOCUMENTATION, UH, FOR DEMOLITIONS.

UH, PLEASE BE MINDFUL OF THOSE.

UH, AND I, MS. AMBER, YOU'LL BE FOLLOWING UP WITH THOSE AS WELL.

CHAIR COMMISSIONER, HAVE ONE, UH, QUICK NOTE.

UH, I JUST WANTED TO STATE THAT, UH, MY EMPLOYER, NORDIC SERGEANT, HAS BEEN WORKING ON, WORKED ON 1316 WEST SIXTH STREET.

SO, UH, I BELIEVE I'M REQUIRED TO RECUSE MYSELF FROM ANY VOTE, UH, UH, JUST AS A FORMALITY.

SO I JUST WANTED TO, UH, LET THAT BE DONE.

COMMISSIONER ALVAREZ, SO NOTED, UM, I BELIEVE, UH, IN FACT, COMMISSIONERS WHO ARE HERE, UH, WE WERE REMINDED THAT WE DO NEED THE, UH, SIGN-IN SHEET SPECIFICALLY TO INDICATE THAT WE HAVE EITHER CONFLICTS OR NO CONFLICTS WITH PROJECTS.

AND I BELIEVE FOR ALL OF YOU WHO ARE VIRTUAL, THE, IF YOU'VE GOT THE SAME MEMO, UH, THAT WILL REQUIRE YOU TO FOLLOW UP WITH AN EMAIL.

UH, ACTUALLY, I THINK THEY PREFER THE EMAIL PRIOR TO THE START OF THE, OF THE MEETING.

I DID SEND EACH ONE OF YOU, UH, WHO ARE JOINING US VIRTUALLY A, UH, BLANK ATTENDANCE SHEET.

SO IF YOU COULD SIGN THAT, SCAN THAT, AND GET IT BACK TO ME AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

AND, AND AS LONG AS WE'RE DOING ATTENDANCE, IT WOULD ALSO HELP IF I DID THE ROLE .

I WAS WONDERING, BUT I WAS LIKE, WELL, YOU CAN SEE WHO'S HERE.

IT'S FINE.

, WE'RE WE, WE GOT RIGHT INTO IT.

COMMISSIONER MCW PRESENT.

UH, I DON'T THINK IT MAKES ANY DIFFERENCE FOR THE, UH, FOR THE ACTION WE JUST TOOK, BUT, UH, WE'LL JUST START WITH THE, UH, ROLL CALL OF MEMBERS.

UH, COMMISSIONER AFF.

I'M HERE.

UH, VICE CHAIR FEATHERSTON PRESENT.

UH, COMMISSIONER COOK, PRESENT VIRTUALLY, UH, COMMISSIONER LAROCHE PRESENT.

COMMISSIONER GROGAN, I UNDERSTAND IS NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO JOIN US.

UH, COMMISSIONER ALVAREZ.

PRESENT, UH, COMMISSIONER EVANS PRESENT.

COMMISSIONER CASTILLO PRESENT.

AND COMMISSIONER DUDLEY PRESENT.

SO SINCE COMMISSIONER RUBIO, HOW DID I DO THAT? .

COMMISSIONER RUBIO.

REQUESTED EITHER BY APPLICANTS OR BY STAFF.

WAIT, YOU JUST NEEDED NO INTRODUCTION.

THAT'S IT.

PERFECT.

ALRIGHT, SO LET'S NOW GO TO THE, UM, POSTPONEMENT.

AND THOSE ITEMS, UH, WERE

[00:15:01]

THEY DON'T NEED DISCUSSION.

UM, BUT WE WILL READ INTO THE RECORD.

ITEM NUMBER SIX.

THAT IS 11, UH, 15 1 15 EAST FIFTH STREET.

UH, THAT IS ITEM 10, UH, FIVE 12 EAST MONROE STREET.

ITEM 12 14 0 9 ALTA VISTA AVENUE.

THAT IS ITEM 15, 400 BRADY LANE.

AND ITEM 19, UH, 10 0 6 EAST 39TH STREET.

THOSE ALL ARE REQUESTED.

POSTPONEMENT TO OUR, UH, NEXT OUR AUGUST MEETING, ENTERTAIN A MOTION MOVE TO APPROVE THE CONSENT POSTPONEMENT.

UH, COMMISSIONER LAROCHE.

IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND.

COMMISSIONER FEATHERSTON.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR INDICATE BY SAYING AYE.

ANY OPPOSED? ALRIGHT, SO WE HAVE MADE HEADWAY.

UH, I THINK THAT BRINGS US TO OUR FIRST PRESENTATION, MS. AMBER.

THIS WILL BE A VERY BRIEF BRIEFING.

LET'S SEE HERE.

SO, RECENT PRESERVATION

[2. Recent Preservation Triumphs]

TRIUMPHS.

UM, I'M JUST GOING TO QUICKLY GO OVER THE NEW LANDMARKS WE HAVE FOR THIS YEAR.

SO FAR.

SO FAR WE HAVE TWO BRAND NEW LANDMARKS AND MORE TO COME FOR SURE.

UH, THE FIRST, UH, THE BROKEN SPOKE WAS INITIATED BY CITY COUNCIL FOR HISTORIC ZONING.

UM, AND IT DID COME THROUGH OUR COMMISSION, UH, WITH WORK ON FROM CITY STAFF, UM, AND THE BUSINESS OWNERS, UH, WHO WERE VERY AWESOME IN, UM, GIVING US INFORMATION AND THE HISTORY.

IT'S A WONDER THE BROKEN SPOKE IS NOT ALREADY A LANDMARK.

UM, BUT NOW IT IS.

AND I KNOW THEY HAD A HUGE CELEBRATION.

UM, AND YEAH, SO THAT'S REALLY EXCITING.

IT'S ALSO, UH, REALLY RARE TO HAVE A COUNCIL INITIATED HISTORIC ZONING CASE.

SO THAT WAS, UM, DEFINITELY WORTHWHILE FOR THIS, THIS PROPERTY.

UH, AND WE ALSO HAVE THE LA WALLIN HOUSE.

UM, THIS IS AN OWNER INITIATED HISTORIC ZONING PROJECT THAT WAS RECENTLY APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL AS WELL FOR LANDMARK STATUS.

UM, IT WAS OWNER INITIATED WITH THE, UH, ASSISTANCE OF O'CONNELL ARCHITECTURE AND GETTING THE APPLICATION TOGETHER AND WORKING WITH OUR STAFF.

UM, WE LOVE THESE STORIES OF, UM, AUSTIN RESIDENTS AND THE BEAUTIFUL HOMES THAT THEY HAVE TAKEN CARE OF THROUGHOUT THE YEARS.

SO, UM, I THINK WE'RE GONNA SEE ANOTHER ONE THIS EVENING, UH, ON ITS WAY, UH, THROUGH A HISTORIC ZONING REVIEW AND A COUPLE MORE BEFORE THE YEAR IS OUT.

SO, UM, I'LL BE CONTINUOUSLY UPDATING ON FUND PRESERVATION FACTS AND, UH, NEWS, UH, AS THEY COME THROUGHOUT THE YEAR.

UH, WE REALLY APPRECIATE BEING ABLE TO SEE THESE NOW AT THE OTHER END.

AND, UH, ALSO REMIND US, UH, OF SOME OF THESE PROPERTIES, WHICH, UH, YOU KNOW, ON THE AGENDA, THEY'RE AN ADDRESS AND THE PICTURE FLASHES BY, AND IT'S HARD TO REMEMBER.

THESE ARE NOW PART OF THE WHOLE, UM, THE, THE WHOLE LIST THEN OF REGISTERED LANDMARKS FOR THE CITY OF AUSTIN.

CONGRESS AVENUE, UH, THE LAMAR BROCK.

UH, THE NEXT BRIEFING THAT WE HAVE IS, UH, FOR NINE 16

[3. 916 Congress Avenue - Larmour Block (F)]

AND, UH, WE HAVE ERIC TYLER LISTED AS A PRESENTER.

COME ON DOWN.

UH, GOOD EVENING.

UM, I'M WITH MVA NINE 16, WHO'S THE OWNER OF NINE 16 CONGRESS.

WE, WE HAVE NO UPDATES.

THE, THE PROJECT IS STILL, IT'S, IT'S BEEN SECURED, IT'S MAINTAINED LOCKED FENCE AND BRACES.

WE, IF, IF Y'ALL RECALL, WE HAD ISSUES WITH AN ANTAGONISTIC NEIGHBOR WHO, UM, PREVENTED US FROM BEING ABLE TO DEVELOP THE PROP, THE, THE, THE PROPERTY.

SO WE, WE CONTINUED TO, TO HOLD ON THE PROPERTY.

IT'S SECURED.

WE'RE, WE'RE, UH, WE'RE LOOKING AT DIFFERENT OPTIONS OF WHAT WE MAY DO IN THE FUTURE, BUT WE HAVE NOTHING DEFINITIVE PLANNED AT THIS TIME.

SO, WILL YOU BE COMING BACK REQUESTING SPECIFIC ACTIONS? ARE YOU IN THE, UH, THE WHAT IF STAGE AND THEIR, THEIR VARIOUS ALTERNATIVES THAT YOU'D LIKE US TO PERHAPS, UH, GIVE SOME, GIVE SOME GUIDANCE TO? YEAH.

YES, SIR.

IF WE GET TO THAT POINT, WE'LL, WE'LL COME TO YOU BECAUSE WE, WE, WE, WE HAVE A COUPLE DIFFERENT OPTIONS WITH THE PROPERTY, AND WE'VE, WE'VE HAD DISCUSSIONS AROUND IT.

WE COULD GO WITH THE PLANS THAT WE ORIGINALLY HAD, OR WE COULD END UP THERE.

THERE'S, THERE'S A, THERE'S A,

[00:20:01]

UM, VARIOUS ALTERNATIVES.

AND WHEN WE HAVE SOMETHING SECURE, I GUESS WE WILL, WE WILL HAVE TO COME BACK AND, AND DISCUSS, UH, UM, WHAT WE WOULD NEED TO DO TO GET A, AN ADDITIONAL CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS.

AND IF, IF YOU'RE IN THE IDEA STAGE EVEN, UH, AND WOULD LIKE TO DIS DISCUSS CERTAIN THINGS, UH, YOU'RE NOT REQUIRED TO COME HERE FIRST BEFORE YOU COULD MAKE A APPOINTMENT WITH THE ARCHITECTURE REVIEW COMMITTEE.

SO IT MAY VERY WELL BE THAT YOU HAVE A COUPLE OF IDEAS, AND THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL.

WELL, WHEN, WHEN WE, WHEN WE GET TO THAT POINT, WE, WE'LL DEFINITELY DO THAT.

PREVIOUSLY, WE, WE HAD A, UH, A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH THE STAFF.

IT'S JUST WHEN, ONCE, ONCE WE STARTED DEVELOPING THIS, WE, WE HAD ALL TYPES OF ISSUES WITH, WITH, UH, A PARTICULAR NEIGHBOR WHO BROUGHT US IN HERE FOR, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY MONTHS CONSECUTIVE, TO TRY TO GET, GET Y'ALL TO, WHICH ARE ALL OUR, OUR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS.

AND IN THAT WHOLE PROCESS, IT CREATED ALL KINDS OF PROBLEMS WITH THE LENDER BEHIND THIS CONSTRUCTION LOAN.

IT ALSO CAUSED ISSUES FOR US ABOUT WHAT WE WANTED TO DO WITH OUR BUSINESS, BECAUSE IT WAS GONNA BE OWNER OCCUPIED.

SO BECAUSE OF THAT, IT'S, IT WAS IN FLUX.

AND SO WE'VE JUST DECIDED TO HOLD ONTO IT RIGHT NOW.

I, I KNOW COMMISSIONERS HAVE SOME QUESTIONS.

UH, COMMISSIONER COOK, YOU WERE, HAD YOUR HAND UP.

UH, UM, I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR COMING AND PRESENTING TO US.

I WAS KIND OF THE ONE WHO PROMPTED THIS AS I WALKED BY THE BUILDING.

I NOTICED THAT THE CORN IS, UH, THE AUSTIN COMMON BRICK ALONG THE TOP TWO, UM, SECTIONS OF CORNEAS.

IT'S REALLY MORE OF A PARAPET ABOVE THE DECORATIVE CORNICE, BUT THOSE ARE MOSTLY GONE AND HEAVILY GRAFFITIED.

SO I WOULD, I WOULD KIND OF QUESTION HOW SECURE IT IS.

UH, CLEARLY ONCE YOU GET INSIDE THAT, UH, SCAFFOLDING CAN BE EASILY CLIMBED.

SO I WOULD ASK YOU TO, TO KIND OF, KIND OF LOOK AT HOW, HOW SECURE IT IS.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT METHODS OF ENTRY, I GUESS, WITHOUT A ROOF, ANYONE THAT CAN CLIMB IN AN ALLEY CAN GET IN THERE.

BUT I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO LOOK AT THAT.

I DID WANT TO NOTE THAT, UH, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, BUILDING STANDARDS HAS LOOKED AT THIS AND THERE'S AN ENGINEER'S REPORT ON FILE, WHICH IS COMFORTING.

I'M GLAD WE DID THE WORK WE DID TO ENSURE THERE WAS SUFFICIENT, UH, SHORING FOR CONSTRUCTION.

SO NOW THAT, UH, BECAUSE OF THIS SITUATION, WE CAN EN ASSURE THAT THE NEIGHBORING, UH, HISTORIC PROPERTIES AND THIS, UH, SHOULD LAST.

BUT IT, IT IS, IT IS GETTING CHIPPED AWAY.

IT'S GETTING ERODED.

IT APPEARS TO BE FROM VANDALISM.

SO I, I'D STRONGLY EN ENCOURAGE YOU TO LOOK AT THAT.

UH, ALSO NOTED THAT IN THE ENGINEER'S REPORT, IT NOTED THAT THE PIERS THAT HAD BEEN DRILLED ARE BASICALLY HOLDING ANY OF THE WATER THAT FALLS THAT WOULD'VE BEEN SHED BY THE ROOF, WHICH KEEPS IT FROM FLUTTERING FLOODING, NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES.

BUT IT ALSO KIND OF MAKES A SEAT THAT IS REALLY BAD FOR, FOR A RISING DAMP ON THE ADJACENT, UH, BRICK WALLS.

SO I DON'T THINK THERE'S TOO MUCH WE CAN DO ABOUT THAT OR, OR REQUEST THAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT THAT.

BUT, UH, I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE, YOU'RE IN, IN QUITE A BIND RIGHT NOW, BUT, UH, JUST I APPRECIATE YOU COMING AND SPEAKING TO US AND KNOWING THAT, THAT WE ARE PAYING ATTENTION TO IT AND, AND DON'T WANT TO GET LIKE A HALF INCH SAG IN THAT FACADE, UH, TO A POINT WHERE YOU'LL BE COMING ASKING US TO, TO TEAR IT DOWN.

UH, BUT IT DOES LOOK, IT DOES LOOK LIKE IT'S, IT'S STABLE.

AND I DID WANT TO POINT OUT TOO, THAT IN THAT ENGINEER'S REPORT, IT WASN'T TERRIBLY CLEAR, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE IN THE PHOTOS, UM, ONE OF THE MAIN CONCERNS WHEN WE WORKED ON THIS WAS, UM, ONCE THE INTERIOR WAS GUTTED AND THE LATERAL, UH, ORIGINAL STRUCTURE WAS REMOVED, THAT THE FACADE WAS GONNA BE FREESTANDING, AND WE HAD COME TO, UH, A METHOD OF STABILIZING THAT FROM BEHIND.

CAN YOU CONFIRM THAT THAT STEEL SHORING THAT'S THERE, THE IDEA WAS TO PINT FROM MULTIPLE LOCATIONS FROM BEHIND RATHER THAN HAVING TIES THROUGH THE FACE.

IS THAT FULL COMPLETE, THAT THAT WAS GONNA BE PART OF THE FINAL CONSTRUCTION AS I UNDERSTAND IT? AND, AND THAT SHOULD BE A FULL STABLE SHORING OF THE BACKSIDE OF THAT SIDE.

IS THAT CORRECT? YEAH.

YES, THERE IS SHORING ON THE BACKSIDE OF, OF THAT.

AND THAT, THAT WAS PART OF THE INSPECTION BY KW WHO'S, WHO'S OUR STRUCTURAL ENGINEER THAT WE'VE HAD IN THERE TWO OR THREE DIFFERENT TIMES TO, TO, TO KEEP AN EYE ON THAT.

AND, AND, AND THAT'S WHAT THE SHORING AT FAIR IS, NOT THE TEMPORARY SHORING WAS, WAS IT THE, THE PERMANENT SHORING THAT WAS GONNA BE INSTALLED AS PART OF THE FLOOR? THAT, THAT'S CORRECT.

AND, UM, WHEN, WHEN WE, WHEN WE SPOKE WITH PEOPLE AT BUILDING STANDARDS, THEY, THEY, THEY GAVE US, THEY, THEY GAVE US SPECIFIC POINTS THEY WANTED US TO DISCUSS, AND WE HANDED THAT TO THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEER AND WE SAID, LOOK, TAKE, TAKE A LOOK AT IT, BUT MAKE SURE YOU ADDRESS THE SPECIFIC POINTS THAT HAVE BEEN POINTED OUT BY THE CITY.

THAT LIKE TO CAMP BACK THERE, SO, UM, WE, WE DEFINITELY HAVE AN EYE ON THAT.

YEAH, I, I APPRECIATE IT.

AND JUST DO WHAT YOU CAN ABOUT, ABOUT THE ACCESS.

CUZ AS WE KNOW, THERE WAS A FIRE IN ANOTHER LANDMARK THAT'S GONNA BE DEMOLISHED THAT IMPACTED ANOTHER LANDMARK AND ABANDONED LANDMARK THAT IMPACTED A, AN OCCUPIED LANDMARK RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET.

SO, UH, WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE KIND OF IN A TROUBLED AREA IN THAT BLOCK, SO, UM, PLEASE DO YOUR, DO YOUR BEST TO KEEP IT SECURE.

YEAH, WE, WE, WE DO HAVE PEOPLE THAT, THAT PARK THERE AND I, I, I'M USUALLY THERE EVERY COUPLE WEEKS, ONE, ONCE EVERY WEEK OR TWO.

AND THEN WE HAVE OTHER PEOPLE THAT GO BY THERE EVERY SO OFTEN.

AND WE DO HAVE TO CHASE PEOPLE OFF THE PROPERTY.

UM, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S JUST, IT'S THE AREA.

THERE'S, THERE'S SOME HOMELESS PEOPLE

[00:25:01]

AND COMMISSIONERS, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? RIGHT, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE BRIEFING.

THE 1306 GUADALUPE STREET, UH, THE ADAM ZILLER HOUSE, MS. CONTRERAS.

APPRECIATE IT.

ALRIGHT, UH, COMMISSIONERS, UH, WE ARE ONTO OUR HISTORIC ZONING APPLICATIONS, ITEM NUMBER FOUR, AND THAT IS

[4. C14H-2023-0074 – 1306 Guadalupe St. – Discussion Adams-Ziller House]

THANK YOU CHAIR.

UM, ITEM NUMBER FOUR, CASE NUMBER C 14 H 20 23 0 0 74 IS AN APPLICATION FOR HISTORIC ZONING AT 1306 GUADALUPE STREET.

UH, THIS IS A RARE AND REMARKABLY INTACT 155 YEAR OLD VERNACULAR STRUCTURE.

UM, IT'S HOLLAND PARLOR FORM EXEMPLIFIES THE SIMPLE BEGINNINGS OF AUSTIN'S PIONEER PAST WITH SMELL SCALE MODIFICATIONS DURING THE PERIOD OF SIGN SIGNIFICANCE THAT SHOW HOW ITS OCCUPANTS PROSPERED OVER TIME.

NOW THIS IS AN R T HHL, UM, AND THE R T L NOMINATION DESCRIBES THE BUILDING AS FOLLOWS.

THIS IS AN EXCELLENT EXAMPLE OF THE SIMPLICITY OF EARLY ARCHITECTURAL ENDEAVORS BUILT WITH LOCAL MATERIALS PRIOR TO THE ARRIVAL OF THE RAILROAD IN AUSTIN IN 1871, BUILT IN 1868, THE HOME IS A DISTINCT SUBTYPE OF THE PRE RAILROAD FOLK STYLE, KNOWN AS THE HALL IN PARLOR FORM, TWO ROOMS WIDE AND ONE ROOM DEEP.

THE HOUSE HAS BUFF COLORED AUSTIN COMMON BRICK, A COMMON MATERIAL FOR EARLY AUSTIN.

THE SIDE GABLED ROOF HAS MINIMAL OVERHANG ON THE EAST AND WEST, AND NO OVERHANG ON THE NORTH AND SOUTH.

THE WOODEN DOOR HAS A TRANSOM ABOVE AND THE SIDE AND ABOVE THE DOOR AND SIDELIGHTS, AND IS ADORNED WITH MODEST IMPEDIMENT LIKELY ADDED TO THE BUILDING LATER.

THE FRONT DOOR IS BLANKED BY, BY TWO DOUBLE HUNG WINDOWS ON EACH SIDE.

THE HOUSE PRESENTS SYMMETRICALLY WITH A CHIMNEY AT EACH END OF THE BUILDING'S ROOF.

THE SIX OVER SIX WINDOWS HAVE WOODEN SILLS AND FLAT ARCH BRICK LENTILS.

THE NORTH ELEVATION REVEALS A STRUCTURE WITH A SHED ROOF ATTACHED TO THE WEST ELEVATION OF THIS BRICK BUILDING.

1306 GUADALUPE STREET WAS BUILT BY AUSTIN PIONEER, AUGUSTA ADAMS, WHO TRAVELED ALONE FROM GERMANY WITH HER TWO SMALL DAUGHTERS TO MAKE A NEW LIFE IN THE CAPITAL CITY.

IN ITS EARLIEST DAYS, ACCORDING TO THE TEXAS STATE HISTORICAL MARKER AWARDED TO THE PROPERTY IN 2009, ADAMS A WIDOW IN NATIVE OF MECKLENBURG, GERMANY, IMMIGRATED TO TEXAS AND PURCHASED LAND AT THE SIDE IN 1857, COMPLETING CONSTRUCTION OF A MODEST HOME AROUND 1868.

HER TWO DAUGHTERS, MARY AND TERESA ADAMS MARRIED AUGUST AND WILLIAM ZILLER, BROTHERS AND SONS OF STONE MASON, MICHAEL ZILLER, ONE OF AUSTIN'S ORIGINAL SETTLERS.

THE WOODEN BUILDING NEXT DOOR AT 1304.

GUADALUPE WAS CONSTRUCTED BETWEEN 1873 AND 1882 AS A PRIVATE GIRLS SCHOOL WHERE MARY AND TERESA ADAMS ZILLER BOTH TAUGHT 1306 GUADALUPE STREET, REMAINED IN THE ZILLER FAMILY UNTIL 1955.

STAFF CAN OFFER THIS ITEM, UH, FOR A RECOMMENDATION TO APPROVE HISTORIC ZONING, UM, AS IT MEETS THESE TWO CRITERIA.

UM, AND IT IS ALSO A RECORDED TEXAS HISTORIC LANDMARK AND A CONTRIBUTING BUILDING IN THE PENDING LISTING OF THE WEST DOWNTOWN AUSTIN NATIONAL REGISTER HISTORIC DISTRICT.

THANK YOU TERRACE.

I WAS CURIOUS IF WE HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE OF THE RELATIVE AGE OF DIFFERENT COMPONENTS, LIKE HOW FAR BACK TO THE, THE WINDOWS DATE AND THE, IS THE SHED ROOF ON THE BACK PART OF THE ORIGINAL CONSTRUCTION? WE DON'T HAVE, WE DIDN'T FIND ANY BUILDING PERMITS THAT INDICATED, UH, THAT, THAT MOST OF THE ITEMS WEREN'T ORIGINAL.

UM, DO WE HAVE A PRESENTATION FROM THE APPLICANT? HI, MY NAME IS LORI MARTIN AND I'M WITH O'CONNELL ARCHITECTURE.

I DON'T HAVE ANY, UH, FURTHER PRESENTATION JUST HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE OR, UH, TRY TO ELABORATE ON ANY, UH, INFORMATION THAT HAS BEEN PROVIDED.

WELL, I KNOW THE BURNING QUESTION FROM OPENING THIS UP AND, AND, AND KNOWING THE BUILDING AS I DO, HOW, HOW IS IT THAT IT'S NOT ALREADY ON OUR, ON OUR, OUR OUR RECORDED LANDMARKS? THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION.

EVERYBODY ELSE SEEMS TO HAVE RECOGNIZED IT, BUT WE MISSED, UH, DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HISTORY? UH, NO.

THE, THE CURRENT OWNER IS THE ONE WHO PUT IT ON THE, HE APPLIED FOR THE RT H L AND HE HAS SINCE DECIDED THAT HE'D LIKE TO APPLY FOR THE HISTORIC LANDMARK, UH, AND HISTORIC ZONING.

SO THAT'S AS FAR AS I KNOW.

BUT HE'S VERY ADAMANT THAT, UM, AUGUSTA ADAMS, THE WOMAN WHO CAME FROM GERMANY IS, UH, THE ONE WHO SHOULD BE CELEBRATED AS SHE, UH, TRAVERSED THE SEAS TO COME TO AUSTIN.

AND, UH, WAS GIVEN THE LAND GRANT DIRECTLY FROM GOVERNOR MPS.

AND, UH, AS A WOMAN, THAT IS PROBABLY AN UNUSUAL POINT AT THAT TIME IN HISTORY.

SO HE'S VERY, UH, ADAMANT THAT SHE GETS HER DUE FOR SURE.

ABSOLUTELY.

UH, COMMISSIONERS, SINCE UH, WE DON'T HAVE ANY FURTHER PRESENTATION, IF THERE'S QUESTIONS OF THE APPLICANT,

[00:30:02]

HE'S TAKEN VERY GOOD CARE OF IT SINCE HE'S OWNED THE PROPERTY IN, UH, SINCE I BELIEVE 1995.

AND HE, UH, RENTED IT BEFORE THAT AS A TENANT SINCE 1983.

UH, THE DOOR, I DON'T BELIEVE IS, UH, ORIGINAL.

OF COURSE.

UM, THE, AT SOME POINT IN THE SEVENTIES, THE BUILDING WAS USED AS A, UH, MATERNITY RETAIL SHOP AND A FURNITURE SHOP AT TWO DIFFERENT TIMES, .

AND, UH, THE WINDOWS APPEAR, YOU KNOW, THE SAME AT THAT POINT, AND THEY ARE, UM, THE STYLE OF WINDOW WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO THE TIME THAT THE BUILDING WAS BUILT.

ANY, ANY OTHER DISCUSSIONS, UH, OR ANY OTHER QUESTION OF THE APPLICANT? OKAY.

THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING, SO IF THERE'S ANYBODY ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF THIS, UH, REQUEST.

IS THERE ANYBODY HERE TO SPEAK AGAINST? ANYBODY OPPOSED? UH, OKAY.

COMMISSIONERS.

IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE WE HAVE ANY, ANY MORE SPEAKERS.

SO I WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.

I MOVE TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.

SECOND.

UH, MOTION TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING BY COMMISSIONER FEATHERSTON, UH, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LAROCHE.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR INDICATE BY SAYING AYE.

ANY OPPOSED? ALL RIGHT, COMMISSIONERS, WHAT IS YOUR PREFERENCE ON THIS? ON THIS ITEM, I MOVE TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE APPLICATION FOR HIS .

MOTION BY COMMISSIONER FEATHERSTON FOR APPROVING HISTORIC ZONING.

IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND.

AND WHO IS THIS? DR.

DUDLEY? UH, THERE YOU GO.

DR.

DUDLEY.

UH, COMMISSIONER DUDLEY.

UH, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER DUDLEY.

UH, ALL RIGHT.

UM, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK TO YOUR MOTION? I DON'T HAVE MUCH MORE TO ADD.

I, I GUESS I'LL SAY AGAIN, IT'S SURPRISING THIS ONE IS NOT ALREADY, UH, ZONED HISTORIC .

COMMISSIONER DUDLEY, I HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO ADD EITHER.

SO THAT WE'RE ALL AWARE OF WHAT THAT TAX IMPACT IS.

UH, ANYBODY ELSE? COMMISSIONERS, ANYBODY? UH, I JUST SAY THAT HAVING OFFICE DOWN THE STREET FROM, UH, THE HOUSE, UH, BACK IN THE, OH, THAT WOULD'VE BEEN THE LATE EIGHTIES, EARLY NINETIES.

UH, IT IS ONE OF THOSE THAT'S KIND OF A LITTLE BIT UNDER, UH, APPRECIATED PERHAPS BECAUSE IT IS SO MODEST AND THERE ARE SO MANY, UH, ADDITIONS AND, UH, ESTABLISHMENTS IN THE VICINITY OF HISTORIC NOTE THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, PRETTY JAZZY AND OF A LATE, BUT ALL OF A LATER ERA.

AND TO HAVE THAT SO WELL PRESERVED AND TO HAVE AN OWNER THAT IS TAKING GOOD CARE TO MAINTAIN THAT, UM, I, I, I JOKED A LITTLE BIT WHEN WE WERE TALKING WITH STAFF.

IT'S, UH, IT, IT'S AT THE CITY LEVEL THAT WE'RE, WE'RE REALLY HAVING A PARTNERSHIP NOW WITH THIS OWNER WHERE OUR REVIEWS AND THE WHOLE PERMITTING PROCESS THAT WE GET ENGAGED IN, UH, REALLY GIVES US A CHANCE NOW TO, UH, ENSURE THAT THIS BUILDING WILL BE LOOKED AFTER AND WILL BE MAINTAINING HIGH STANDARDS.

UH, AND I, I KNOW AS THE STEWARD OF THIS NEW, UH, HISTORIC LANDMARK, IF IT PASSES THAT YOUR OWNER WILL BE ABLE TO EMBRACE THAT AS WELL.

SO, ALRIGHT.

COMMISSIONERS, UH, LET'S, I BELIEVE COMMISSIONER COOK HAS SOMETHING TO SAY.

COMMISSIONER COOK? YES.

I JUST WANTED TO KNOW, I'M GONNA BE SUPPORTING THE MOTION.

THIS, THIS IS SUCH AN EARLY STRUCTURE, SO INTACT, UH, HAS CONNECTION WITH IMMIGRATION AND, AND WOMEN, AND ALSO THE CONNECTION, ANECDOTAL CONNECTION WITH NATIVE AMERICAN OCCUPATION WAS VERY INTERESTING.

BUT SINCE IT'S BEEN BROUGHT TO OUR ATTENTION A NUMBER OF TIMES ABOUT THE, THE TAX IMPACT, UH, OF, OF ZONING HISTORIC ZONING AND, AND HOW IT'S KIND OF GONNA BE UNDER MORE SCRUTINY AND DISCUSSION IN THE FUTURE, I JUST DID WANT TO CLARIFY WITH STAFF, THIS IS A DOWNTOWN MIXED USE, UM, UH, ZONED PARCEL.

SO I WAS JUST CURIOUS WHETHER THAT WAS GONNA HAVE THE $8,600 CAP OR WHETHER THAT WAS GONNA HAVE THE HIGHER COMMERCIAL CAP, BECAUSE I KNOW, UH, THAT'LL BE DISCUSSED MORE HEAVILY PROBABLY THAN THE, THE HISTORIC ASPECTS ON IN THE OTHER LEVELS OF REVIEW AND, UH, HAS CAUSED A PROBLEM, PARTICULARLY LIKE AT WESTGATE TOWERS, THE, THE AMOUNT OF THE, UM, THE ABATEMENT.

AND SO I JUST WANTED TO CL CLARIFY

[00:35:01]

THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER.

UM, YES, THIS IS A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY.

UM, SO THERE IS NO CAP.

UM, THE ESTIMATED ANNUAL EXEMPTION COMES IN JUST ABOVE THE $8,600 CAP AT 89, 70 AND 69 CENTS.

AND, UM, COMMISSIONER COOK, I APPRECIATE YOU BRINGING THAT ISSUE UP.

I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THE OVERALL ECONOMICS, AND WE'VE BEEN HAVING THIS CHALLENGE FOR DOWNTOWN HISTORIC PROPERTIES THAT WE'RE LOSING, UH, BECAUSE OF THE INCREDIBLE VALUE OF SOME OF THE LAND THAT THESE BUILDINGS SIT ON.

SO, UH, THAT AMOUNT THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, EVEN IF IT INCREASES OVER TIME, IS STILL, UH, WOEFULLY INADEQUATE TO MAKE UP FOR THESE OTHER ECONOMIC PRESSURES.

UH, WE, THE GOOD GRACES OF A, UH, WILLING, UH, OWNER TO THANK FOR MAKING THIS ALL POSSIBLE, BUT, UH, I'M AFRAID THERE ARE GONNA BE MANY, MANY MORE PROPERTIES THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE GOING TO POSSIBLY BE LOSING.

AND, UH, BEING ABLE TO LEVERAGE OUR ABATEMENT PROGRAM IN ORDER TO AT LEAST TRY TO OFFSET SOME OF THOSE TO PROTECT THESE PROPERTIES, I THINK IS A VERY WISE INVESTMENT.

SO, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S HARD TO COMPARE THAT TO OTHER PROPERTIES IN THE PROGRAM, BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO START SEEING THE DOWNTOWN PROPERTIES IN A VERY SPECIAL LIGHT, UH, BASED ON THESE, THIS, THIS IMBALANCE, IF YOU WILL, BETWEEN THE STRUCTURAL VALUE AND THE LAND VALUE.

WERE THERE OTHER COMMISSIONERS? ANY OTHER COMMENTS? ALL RIGHT.

I'LL CALL THE QUESTION THOSE IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION, UH, TO PROCEED WITH THE HISTORIC, UH, ZONING, UH, INDICATE BY SAYING AYE, OR INDICATE THAT WE'LL DO A ROLL CALL, UH, BY RAISING YOUR HANDS, HISTORIC ZONING.

RAISE YOUR HAND.

I DON'T SEE ANY OPPOSED, BUT JUST IN CASE ANY OPPOSED? ALL RIGHT.

ALL HANDS WERE UP.

THAT IS UNANIMOUS.

UH, CONGRATULATIONS.

AND AGAIN, WE THANK THE APPLICANT, UH, AND REALLY DO APPRECIATE THE WORK THAT'S, UH, BEEN DONE ON THIS EFFORT.

ITEM NUMBER FIVE?

[5. HR-2023-012834 – 1316 W. 6th St. – Consent Smoot Family Home ]

UM, NOPE.

I BELIEVE THE NEXT ITEM IS

[7. HR-2023-062078 – 4109 Avenue A – Consent Hyde Park Local Historic Distirct]

ITEM NUMBER SEVEN.

ITEM SEVEN.

THAT'S CORRECT.

UH, THIS IS 41 0 9 AVENUE A.

AND, UH, AGAIN, I THINK THERE WAS SOME SUGGESTION THAT WE HAVE THAT, UH, REFERRED TO THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE.

UH, BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING IF WE WANT TO JUST, UM, PERHAPS, UM, SINCE IT WAS PULLED FOR DISCUSSION, A PUBLIC HEARING IS STILL REQUIRED.

MS. QUINTERA, IF YOU AT LEAST WALK US THROUGH THE CASE.

UH, THIS IS A PROPOSAL TO CONSTRUCT A TWO-STORY ADDITION TO A ONE-STORY HOUSE AT 41 0 9 AVENUE A AS WELL AS TO REPLACE SIDING IN, FILL A DOOR AND SOME WINDOWS REPLACE THE EXISTING WOOD DECK WITH A NEW DECK TO MATCH THE EXISTING AND TO ENLARGE THE PARKING AREA.

UM, THE PROPOSED ADDITION IS AT THE REAR SIDE OF THE EXISTING BUILDING.

UH, IT'S A TWO STORY, UM, CROSS GD AND SETBACK APPROXIMATELY 15 FEET FROM THE FRONT WALL OF THE HOUSE.

WINDOWS ARE ONE OVER ONE SINGLE HUNG RID RHYTHMICALLY PLACED, AS WELL AS SOME DIVIDED RIBBON WINDOWS.

THE ADDITION IS CLOUD AND HORIZONTAL SIDING AND FEATURES TRIANGULAR KNEE BRACES AT THE CAPE END.

UM, THE PROPOSAL ALSO INCLUDES REPLACEMENT OF THE EXISTING HORIZONTAL WOOD SIDING WITH HORIZONTAL FIBER CEMENT SIDING, AN ENCLOSURE OF SIDE WINDOWS AND THE SECONDARY FRONT DOOR, UM, AS WELL AS THE REMOVAL OF AN EXISTING SCREEN PORCH AND DECK FROM THE REAR OF THE RESIDENCE, UH, TO BE REPLACED WITH AN UNCOVERED DECK.

THIS IS A ONE STORY CRAFTSMAN BUNGALOW WITH HORIZONTAL WOOD SIDING, GABLED ROOF WITH GABLE PARTIAL WIDTH PORCH AND TRIANGULAR BRACKETS AT THE GABLE ENDS.

THE PROJECT MEETS SOME OF THE HYDE PARK HISTORIC DISTRICT STANDARDS, UM, UH, AND IT IS A CONTRIBUTING PROPERTY TO THE HYDE PARK HISTORIC DISTRICT STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS TO APPROVE THE APPLICATION EXCEPT FOR THE INFILL OF THE SECONDARY FRONT DOOR, UH, WHICH IS A CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURE OF THIS HOUSE TYPE.

UM, I, I ALSO, UH, WAS CON WAS, WAS WONDERING ABOUT WHETHER THE, UM, CUZ THIS ISN'T A HYDE PARK STRUCTURE, AND I KNOW GENERALLY SPEAKING, WE'VE HAD WAY IN FROM THE HYDE PARK NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION.

UH, IS THERE ANY INDICATION THAT THE OWNER HAS MET WITH THEM OR THAT THEY HAVE? UH, I DO BELIEVE THE APPLICANT IS HERE.

WELL THEN WE'LL GO AHEAD AND ASK THE APPLICANT THAT.

RAISED, WE HAVEN'T MET WITH HYDE PARK.

UM, THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING.

WE CAN GO AHEAD AND ASK THE APPLICANT AT LEAST TO, UH, ANSWER A FEW QUESTIONS.

IF YOU'RE NOT PREPARED TO MAKE A FULL PRESENTATION.

MICKEY EFFLER ATX ARCHITECTS IS THE ARCHITECT AND THE APPLICANT.

UH, THE, THE FIRST QUESTION YOU JUST

[00:40:01]

WE, WE, WE, TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY AND TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, FOLLOWED THE HYDE PARK DESIGN GUIDELINES.

AND WHEN THAT'S THE CASE, YOU KNOW, I MIGHT AS WELL GET THE BALL ROLLING AND JUST SUBMIT THE THING.

UM, IN VIRTUALLY EVERY CASE WHERE WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO, UH, FOLLOW, UH, THE GUIDELINES, YOU GUYS KNOW WHY ALREADY? BECAUSE TREES, BECAUSE IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE, BECAUSE MCMANSION, ET CETERA.

SO THOSE ELEMENTS ARE LARGELY INVIOLABLE, WHEREAS MASSAGING THE DESIGN ELEMENTS A LITTLE BIT TO ACHIEVE SOME AMOUNT OF, UH, CONSISTENCY IS POSSIBLE.

SO ONE, ONE NOTE, I THINK THERE MIGHT BE A LEFTOVER NOTE ON THE ELEVATIONS THAT'S INACCURATE.

WE'RE NOT PLANNING ON CHANGING THE, UH, THE SIDING.

SO THAT, THAT I THINK IS AN ERROR ON THE DRAWINGS.

AND THEN THE OTHER CONCERN THAT STAFF RAISED HAD TO DO WITH THE SECOND, UM, FRONT DOOR AND MANY OF THE, YEAH, AND I TALKED, AND I, AND I SAW THAT IN THE, IN THE, THE AGENDA OR BACKGROUNDS.

I DON'T REMEMBER.

AND I TALKED TO THE OWNER ABOUT THAT AND THEY'RE FINE WITH THAT.

DO YOU, DO YOU, DO YOU, CAN YOU SHOW THE DEMOLITION PLAN? YEAH, OF COURSE.

THEY, THEY'RE NUMBER OF, SO IT'S HOUSES THAT HAVE THE TWO FRONT DOORS, RIGHT? IT'S, UH, MY PERSONAL, UM, MY PERSONAL LABEL FOR THAT TYPE OF ARRANGEMENT IS THE DEPRESSION, DUPLEX, , RIGHT? BECAUSE I, I DO A LOT OF ANCESTRY WORK AND INVARIABLY FROM THE THIS TIME PERIOD YOU'LL HAVE SOME STRANGER WITH A COMPLETELY LA DIFFERENT LAST NAME LIVING WITH YOUR RELATIVES.

WELL, WHERE ARE YOU GONNA STICK THEM? YOU JUST CLOSE OFF THIS FRONT ROOM AND GIVE THEM THEIR OWN DOOR.

SO I WOULD, AND YOU COME ACROSS THAT ALL THE TIME WITH, WITH STRUCTURES OF THIS VINTAGE.

SO I ASSUME THAT'S THAT'S WHAT IT IS, BUT I'VE ALREADY DISCUSSED IT WITH THE, WITH THE OWNERS, AND THEY'RE FINE WITH KEEPING THAT DOOR.

THEY'LL FIND A REASON TO KEEP IT, IT IT, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S A GLASS DOOR.

IF IT'S, IF IT'S A GLASS DOOR THAT ENDS UP BEING A DEFACTO WINDOW, THEY'RE, IT DOESN'T MATTER TO THEM.

WELL, ACTUALLY, I THOUGHT THEY WERE BEING MORE INVENTED BECAUSE, UH, THEY WERE LOOKING AHEAD TO THE AIRBNB.

YOU SEE, THAT'S THE NO, IT'S THE, IT'S, YEAH, YEAH.

WELL, THE DEPRESSION DUPLEX IS THE AIRBNB OF THEIR TIME, RIGHT? YEAH.

THEY KEEP GOING BACK, BUT, BUT NO, THE OWNERS ARE DOING THE OPPOSITE.

YEAH, NO, I UNDERSTAND.

UM, ACTUALLY, I, I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH STAFF AND I WAS THE ONE WHO RECOMMENDED THAT THIS MIGHT NEED MORE CONVERSATION.

UH, COMMISSIONERS WE ARE POSTED TO TAKE ACTION.

IT WAS A CONSENT ITEM.

UH, I WILL DEFER TO YOU ALL WHETHER YOU FEEL LIKE IT NEEDS MORE DISCUSSION OR WHETHER WE ARE PREPARED TO TAKE ACTION TONIGHT.

UH, I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT, IF THAT'S OKAY.

PLEASE.

UM, WOULD THE APPLICANT ALSO BE AMENABLE TO ALTERING THE PROPORTIONS OF THE TWO WINDOWS ON THE SECOND STORY FRONT FACADE TO BE MORE COMPATIBLE WITH THE EXISTING RATHER THAN THE, THE HORIZONAL CONFIGURATION THAT THEY'RE IN NOW? YEAH, TO THE DEGREE, TO THE DEGREE POSSIBLE, YES.

HOWEVER, IF YOU LOOK AT THE FLOOR PLAN, THE PROPOSED SECOND FLOOR FLOOR PLAN, ONE OF THOSE IS IN A BATHROOM.

SO IT'D BE DIFFICULT TO, TO CHANGE THE, THE BATHROOM WINDOW.

AND THE OTHER ONE IS PRESUMABLY YOUR HEADBOARD WINDOW WHERE THE OTHER WALL OF WINDOWS IS NECESSARILY THE EGRESS WINDOWS.

UM, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK WE COULD REALISTICALLY CHANGE THE WINDOW IN THE BATHROOM SIDE.

CONCEIVABLY WE COULD CHANGE THE SIZE OF THE WINDOW IN THE BEDROOM SIDE, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT IMBALANCE WOULD BE PREFERABLE.

IF IT'S NECESSARY TO HAVE A WHOLE MONTH TO THE TIMELINE UNLESS ANOTHER COMMISSIONER HAS OTHER THOUGHTS ON IT, OTHER COMMISSIONERS.

COMMISSIONER COOK, DID YOU HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS? UM, YES, I'M, I'M, I'M PONDERING IT AS THOUGH I'M IN THE, THE A R C RIGHT NOW, AND I KNOW I'M NOT, UM, I, I WOULD JUST ASK IF THEY CONSIDER THAT AND ALSO CONSIDER, UM, MAKING SURE THAT THE BRACKETS ARE DIFFERENTIATED AND NOT MATCHING THE HISTORIC BRACKETS, UH, ON THE SECOND FLOOR.

SO IF, UH, IT IS MY REFLEX REACTION IN ALL PROJECTS THAT WE, THAT WE BRING TO THE COMMISSION TO SPEED THINGS ALONG AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

HOWEVER, IF IT FEELS APPROPRIATE TO SEND THIS TO THE A A R C THIS TIME, I, I, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK IT SCREWS UP OUR TIMEFRAME TOO SIGNIFICANTLY.

AND WE, I I'M NOT, I'M NOT GONNA FIGHT YOU ON THAT.

I MEAN, THOSE WOULD WOULD'VE BEEN MY ONLY TWO COMMENTS IN THE, IN, IN THE COMMITTEE.

SO, UM, IF YOU'RE ABLE TO ADDRESS THOSE, I DON'T KNOW

[00:45:01]

UM, I'M HEARING YOU SAY THAT, UM, MAYBE WITH, THERE'S LIMITED CHANGES POSSIBLE ON THE SECOND FLOOR BE, UH, WINDOWS, BUT I THINK THE BRACKETS, IT'S NOT THAT YOU CAN'T HAVE BRACKETS, BUT THIS, WE DON'T, WE'RE NOT TRYING TO MATCH EXACTLY THE HISTORICAL, IS IT DISTINCTION? IS IT PREFERABLE TO NOT HAVE BRACKETS ON THE ADDITION? UH, I THINK, I, I THINK THE BIGGEST ISSUE IS THAT IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT WAS A COPY OF OR CONTINUATION OF SOMETHING THAT WAS, THAT WAS HISTORIC AND IS NOT YEAH, BUT THINK E EITHER WAY, EITHER SIMPLIFIED OR, OR NONE.

WELL, IN THAT CASE, WHY ARE THE WINDOWS A PROBLEM? THERE'S NO OTHER WINDOWS.

THERE'S NO PRECEDENT FOR THOSE.

NO, THAT WAS THE BRACKETS.

AS FAR AS THE WINDOWS GO, IF THIS, IF THE QUESTION IS MAKE SURE THAT THE ADDITION IS DIFFERENTIATED FROM THE, FROM THE EXISTING, THEN MY QUESTION IS WHY ARE THE WINDOWS IN THE ADDITION AN ISSUE? THAT'S AN INTERESTING POINT.

BUT IN THE STANDARDS IT SAYS, MAKE WINDOWS VISIBLE FROM THE STREET ON ANY ADDITION, COMPATIBLE WITH THOSE ON THE EXISTING HOUSE IN TERMS OF SAS CONFIGURATION FOR PORTIONS, SPACE AND COM PLACEMENT.

I SO MAKE IT CONSISTENT, BUT NOT CONSISTENT, BUT THEN MAKE IT CONSISTENT.

I THINK, YEAH, THAT'S A POINT.

DO I HAVE IT RIGHT POINT THAT, UH, THAT THOSE HAVE BOTH TYPICALLY BEEN STANDARDS AND TO CONSIDER, UH, MATCHING PENETRATION TO BE FALSE HISTORICISM IS INTERESTING.

BUT IN THE CONTEXT OF THE LARGER ADDITION, AS LONG AS THE LARGER ADDITION CAN BE IDENTIFIED IN THE LARGER CONSTRUCTION CAN BE IDENTIFIED AS NOT CONTEMPORARY BY ITS OTHER DETAILS, THEN THE FENESTRATION ITSELF CAN MATCH AND NOT BE CONFUSED AS A WHOLE.

SO IT'S CLEAR FROM THE DETAILING, FROM THE ROOF LINE, FROM THE CORNICES, UH, THAT, AND FROM THE SIDING THAT IT'S AN ADDITION, THEN MATCHING WINDOWS IN THERE WILL NOT BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD MAKE SOMEONE THINK THAT THAT WAS ORIGINAL, BUT IT WOULD ALSO MAKE THE ENTIRE FULL BLEND BETTER.

SO THEY KIND OF COMPLIMENT EACH OTHER, THOSE TWO REQUIREMENTS RATHER THAN CONFLICTING.

COMMISSIONER PATERSON? UH, I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK COMMISSIONER COOK MIGHT HAVE JUST SAID IT BETTER THAN I .

I, I WAS GONNA SPEAK MORE VAGUELY ABOUT JUST SORT OF A SQUINT TEST OF LIKE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE WALKING DOWN THE STREET, YOU'RE NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO ANY PARTICULAR BUILDING.

UM, UH, THE DIFFERENCE IN THE SHAPE OF THE WINDOWS MAY CATCH YOUR EYE.

UM, AND THAT'S WHAT WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE HAPPEN.

BUT THEN IT IS APPROPRIATE THAT WHEN YOU'RE REALLY DIGGING INTO, LIKE GETTING CLOSE, PAYING ATTENTION TO A SPECIFIC BUILDING THAT YOU DON'T DISCOVER FALSE HISTORICISM.

AND I JUST THINK THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT WAYS THAT YOU PERCEIVE THE, THE BUILDING OF, UM, GENERALLY FROM A LITTLE BIT OF A DISTANCE, MAYBE WHILE YOU'RE MOVING PAST IT, THAT YOU DON'T WANT SOMETHING GLARING TO CATCH YOUR EYE AS DISTINCTLY DIFFERENT.

AND THEN ANOTHER LEVEL OF REALLY TAKING THE TIME TO CONSIDER THE WHOLE THING.

AND THEN AT THAT POINT IT'S NOT APPROPRIATE TO HAVE, UM, FALSE HISTORICISM.

I DON'T KNOW.

JUST THINKING OUT LOUD.

NOPE.

SOUNDED GOOD.

ANY OTHER COMMISSIONERS? ANY OTHER QUESTION? THE APPLICANT? OKAY.

UM, MR. PEALER, HE DIDN'T, I DON'T THINK WE HAD YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF, BUT, UH, YEP, HE DID.

NO, WE DID OKAY.

FOR THE RECORD, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ANYBODY ELSE TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM FOR OR AGAINST? OKAY.

UH, COMMISSIONERS, UH, WE CAN TAKE ACTION ON HERE TO POSTPONE.

WE CAN CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND WE CAN HAVE A MOTION TO EITHER APPROVE OR DENY.

I MOVE TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.

COMMISSIONER ROCHE MOVES TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.

THERE A SECOND.

I'LL SECOND.

MR. FEATHERSTON, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF CLOSING THE PUBLIC HEARING INDICATE BY SAYING AYE.

ANY OPPOSED? OKAY.

THE HEARING IS CLOSED.

UH, WHAT ACTION SHOULD WE TAKE CHAIR IF I, IF I MAY, UH, MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE APPLICATION WITH THE COMMENTS ABOUT THE PROPORTIONS OF THE WINDOWS AND THE DETAIL OF THE BRACKETS TO ALLOW ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL OF THE APPLICATION ONCE THOSE ARE ADDRESSED, OR, UH, IF THE APPLICANT PREFERS TO ATTEND THE NEXT, UM, ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE MEETING, UH, AND BRING IT BACK, BUT TO ALLOW STAFF TO, UH, UH, TO HANDLE THAT APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL HOWEVER THEY WISH TO MOVE FORWARD.

I'LL SECOND THAT.

TO DELAY THINGS ANY MORE THAN NECESSARY.

SO I UNDERSTAND THERE'S A MOTION TO APPROVE THE APPLICATION WITH THE SUGGESTION OF, UH, REVIEW BY STAFF, UH, THAT IS BY COMMISSIONER COOK AND SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LAROCHE.

UH, COMMISSIONER COOK, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK TO YOUR MOTION? SURE.

I, I DON'T LIKE

[00:50:01]

I THINK THE COMMENTS ARE FEW.

I THINK THAT BY AND LARGE, THE, THE APPLICANT CLEARLY, UH, FOLLOWED THE, THE STANDARDS EXCEPT FOR THE, THESE TWO LITTLE DETAILS.

AND I WOULD JUST LIKE TO ALLOW THEM FLEXIBILITY TO MOVE FORWARD IF THEY WANT TO WITH STAFF OR TO COME FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION IF THERE'S, IF THEY HAVE ANY, ANY OTHER CONCERNS.

UM, COMMISSIONER ROCHE? NO, I AGREE.

I I THINK THE APPLICANT HAS COME IN GOOD FAITH AND, AND IS SOMEWHAT AMENABLE AND, UH, APPRECIATED THE CANDOR.

UH, ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? YEAH, I'D LIKE TO, LIKE TO ADD THAT I'M NOT OPPOSED TO THE WINDOWS IN THEIR, UH, CURRENT CONFIGURATION AS DRAWN.

I, I, I WAS TRYING TO LISTEN CAREFULLY TO THE WORDS THAT COMMISSIONER COOK USED IN HIS MOTION OF A SUGGESTION TO, UH, LOOK AT CHANGING THE PROPORTION OF THOSE WINDOWS.

UM, I, I, I WAS JUST AT, AT THE FIRST PASS JUST SIMPLY TRYING TO PUT WORDS TO AN IDEA OF WHY A CERTAIN PROPORTION WOULD BE PREFERABLE.

UM, BUT YEAH, I'LL, I'LL SUPPORT THE MOTION.

UH, ANYONE IN ANY, ANY OF OUR VIRTUAL COMMISSIONERS WANNA WEIGH IN? ALRIGHT.

AND WE HAVE A MOTION ON THE TABLE.

UH, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR INDICATE BY RAISING YOUR HAND.

UH, ON ANY OPPOSED? ALRIGHT, THAT PASSES UNANIMOUSLY.

UH, ITEM NUMBER EIGHT, 2000 MAPLE AVENUE.

RIGHT, THE NEXT ITEM,

[8. HR-2023-059459 – 2000 Maple Ave. – Discussion Rogers-Washington-Holy Cross Local Historic District]

UH, THIS IS IN THE ROGERS, WASHINGTON HOLY CROSS, UH, LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT.

AND, UM, THIS HAS SOME COMPLICATING FACTORS, UH, BECAUSE WE HAVE A PROJECT THAT GOT, UH, COMPLETED WITHOUT, WITHOUT, UH, APPROVAL OR REVIEW.

SO, UH, MS. CONTRERAS, ITEM NUMBER EIGHT, 2000 MAPLE AVENUE.

UM, THIS IS A PROJECT COMPLETED WITHOUT A PERMIT, UM, THAT REQUIRED PRIOR COMMISSIONER STAFF REVIEW.

UM, SO THE WINDOWS ARE REPLACED, UM, AS WELL AS THE ROOF AND THE BRICK VENEER AT THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING.

UM, THE TWO OVER TWO ALUMINUM WINDOWS HAVE BEEN REPLACED WITH ONE OVER ONE VINYL WITH NO CHANGE IN OPENINGS.

THE BRICK VENEER, UM, HAS BEEN REPLACED WITH ASHLER MASONRY VENEER, AND THE ROOF HAS BEEN REPLACED IN KIND WITH COMPOSITION SHINGLES.

UH, THIS WAS A ONE STORY HOUSE WITH A SIDE GABLE SHINGLE ROOF, HORIZONTAL ALUMINUM SIDING, UH, MASON VENEER THE WATER TABLE, AND TWO OVER TWO ALUMINUM WINDOWS.

UM, THIS PROJECT DOES NOT QUITE MEET THE, UH, ROGERS, WASHINGTON HOLY CROSS HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN STANDARDS.

UM, AND IT IS A CONTRIBUTING PROPERTY.

SO THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS TO CONSIDER WHETHER THE UNAUTHORIZED ALTER ALTERATIONS HAVE RENDERED THE HOUSE NON-CONTRIBUTING TO THE DISTRICT.

IF SO, UH, STAFF RECOMMENDS REQUIRING REPLACEMENT OF THE ALTERED WINDOWS AND VENEER WITH COMPATIBLE ELEMENTS MEETING THE STANDARDS.

UH, MS. CONTRERAS, DO YOU HAVE ANY MORE INSIGHT ON HOW THIS SLIPPED THROUGH THE CRACKS? AND THAT WAS, I GUESS IT WAS NOT PERMANENTED AS WELL AS NOT THAT'S CORRECT.

UH, REVIEWED BY THE HISTORIC LANDMARKS.

THERE ARE SOME PERMITS THAT ALLOW, UM, LIKE FOR LIKE WINDOW SIDING, UM, SIMILAR SMALL JOBS, UH, TO BE REPLACED WITH AN EXPRESS PERMIT OR NO PERMIT AT ALL.

AND, UH, IT APPEARS THAT THIS IS HOW, UH, THIS WAS MISSED.

UM, SO, BUT THEN THEY, BUT, BUT THAT WAS, THAT WAS ISSUED ERRONEOUSLY AND THEY WERE CALLED ON IT AND THEN HAVE TO APPLY FOR A FULL PERMIT, IS THAT CORRECT? RIGHT.

THE, UH, WE WERE LOOPED IN WHEN THE APPLICANT, UM, CHOSE TO REMEDIATE THEIR NON PERMITTED WORK, UM, BY PULLING A PERMIT CORRECTLY.

UM, AND AT THAT POINT, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES LOOPED US IN AS PART OF THE REGULAR REVIEW PROCESS.

UM, THANK YOU FOR THAT PRESENTATION.

UM, THANK YOU COMMISSIONERS, OR ANY QUESTION OF STAFF? YES.

I WOULD LIKE, UH, STAFF TO CLARIFY IF, IF THE OWNER, UH, DID THE OWNER PURSUE THIS WORK ORIGINALLY, YOU, YOU STATED THERE IS A WAY TO REPLACE THINGS IN, LIKE KIND WITHOUT REVIEW.

WAS THERE, DID THE APPLICANT APPROACH THE CITY TO CONFIRM THIS? AND, YOU KNOW, I'M, IT WAS EITHER A MISTAKE OR AN OVERSIGHT.

I'M, I'M JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT TO WHAT DEGREE THE APPLICANT WAS WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT.

UM, I BELIEVE THE APPLICANT IS HERE AND CAN SPEAK TO, UH, TO THIS QUESTION, COMMISSIONER.

ACTUALLY, THE APPLICANT.

UH, PLEASE COME AND I, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE THE RIGHT ONE TO ASK THIS QUESTION, BUT YES, SIR.

UH, BEFORE WE ASK YOU QUESTIONS, UH, PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND, UH, ANYTHING YOU WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS OR PRESENT.

TRIED TO PAY FOR THE PERMIT AND I FIGURED AS USUAL, THERE'S USUALLY COMPLICATIONS IN PAYING.

MY NAME IS MARK TAYLOR AND I'M THE APPLICANT.

UH, THEY ORIGINALLY WE GOT, WE WERE RECEIVED, UH, AN APPROVAL FOR THE PERMIT AND I HAD

[00:55:01]

AND SO WE HAD ALREADY TOOK THE WINDOWS OUT.

IT WAS, UM, VINYL SIDING AND, UH, WE TOOK IT BACK TO THE ORIGINAL SIGHTING BY THE TIME WE GOT DONE, CALLED FOR AN INSPECTION.

UH, TALKED WITH AMBER, SHE SAYS, I DON'T SEE THE REASON WHY YOU'RE UNABLE TO CALL FOR, I MEAN, TO RECEIVE YOUR PERMIT.

EVEN AT THAT POINT THEY WASN'T AWARE OF WHAT WAS GOING ON.

BUT I DO HAVE RECORD THAT WE DID RECEIVE APPROVAL OF THE PERMIT FEES NEEDED TO BE PAID, BUT WHEN I TRIED TO PAY THEM, I WASN'T ABLE TO.

AND THAT WAS BECAUSE THE WORK, AS IT TURNS OUT, WAS MORE EXTENSIVE.

IT WAS MORE EXTENSIVE, SOUND LIKE IT NEEDED TO GO THROUGH YOU GUYS.

BUT, UH, I DID STAY WITHIN, UH, WHEN THE OPENING DOOR OPENING AND THE BRICK VENEER IS PRETTY MUCH THE SAME SIZE VENEER AS THE NEXT TWO HOUSES TO THE RIGHT OF THIS PROPERTY.

THE WINDOWS ARE VINYL, WHICH I, I WAS TOLD THERE SHOULD BE, UH, METAL WINDOWS, BUT THE, IF YOU TOOK A PICTURE OF 2000 MAPLE AND TO THE RIGHT OF THE NEXT TWO HOUSES, I, I USED A SIMILAR, UH, VENEER STONE THAT LOOKS EXACTLY THE SAME WIDTH AND ALMOST THE SAME LENGTH.

WELL WE DO APPRECIATE YOU COMING AND DISCUSSING THE PROJECT.

THAT'S ALWAYS MUCH MORE DIFFICULT WHEN EVERYTHING'S FINISHED.

UM, WE HAVE, I THINK ONE WAY TO LOOK AT THIS IS, WERE YOU TO HAVE SHOWN THIS AS YOUR PLAN MM-HMM.

BEFORE YOU GOT STARTED MM-HMM.

, WOULD THIS BE SOMETHING WE WOULD APPROVE OR NOT? I THINK THAT'S ONE, ONE QUESTION THAT COMMISSIONERS ARE GONNA PROBABLY BE GRAPPLING WITH.

I THINK THE SECOND QUESTION, AND PROBABLY PERTINENT TO WHAT YOU ARE MOST CONCERNED ABOUT IS, WELL, NOW THAT THE WORK HAS BEEN DONE, UH, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THERE'S A QUESTION OF WERE YOU AWARE OF THE, UH, HISTORIC DISTRICT AND THE REVIEW BECAUSE OF THE BEING A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE, BUT NOW THAT IT'S DONE, CAN IT STILL BE A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE IN ITS CURRENT STATE? OR IN ORDER TO MAKE THAT POSSIBLE, WOULD WE HAVE TO HAVE YOU CHANGE SOMETHING? SO ALL THOSE ARE PERTINENT TO THE CONVERSATION THAT WE'LL BE HAVING.

OKAY, THAT'S FINE.

IS BASED ON THAT, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADD? NO, OTHER THAN THE NEIGHBORS OR THANKING ME THE WHOLE WHILE SAYING, THIS HOUSE HAS BEEN ERECT FOR YEARS AND, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW, JUST KIND OF RUNNING FROM PURCHASING IT, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE OF, UH, THE CHALLENGES OF, YOU KNOW, REHABBING THE HOUSE AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

SO, BUT WHATEVER YOU GUYS RECOMMEND AND PREPARED TO DO WHATEVER WE NEED TO DO TO.

WELL, THANK YOU.

GET OF COURSE, MR. TAYLOR.

WE MAY HAVE MORE QUESTIONS FOR YOU, UH, AFTER, BUT, UM, RIGHT NOW, WELL, MR. TAYLOR'S HERE, COMMISSIONERS, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? OKAY, WELL WE THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND OBVIOUSLY WE'LL HAVE MORE CONVERSATION IN JUST A MOMENT.

UM, ABSOLUTELY.

THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING.

IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE HERE TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM? WE HAVE SOMEONE JOINING US BY PHONE, UH, ROB DECANT.

APPROVED ON THE EXPRESS PERMIT.

MR. DECANT.

MR. DECANT, YOU MIGHT HAVE TO UNMUTE YOURSELF.

YEAH, WE'RE NOT GETTING ANY AUDIO YET.

HI, THIS IS ROB DE CHAN.

I'M WITH THE EAST SIDE MOD DESIGN AND I'M ASSISTING MARK WITH HIS, UH, REQUEST.

AND I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT, UH, A LITTLE BIT MORE CLEARLY THAT WHAT HAPPENED IS THAT THE EXPRESS PERMIT THAT HE APPLIED FOR WAS APPROVED SEVERAL MONTHS AGO WHEN HE WASN'T AWARE AT THE TIME OF THE DISTRICT.

AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED IS THAT WHEN HE TRIED TO PAY FOR IT, THE, UH, IT WOULDN'T LET HIM PAY FOR IT.

AND HE THOUGHT IT WAS ANOTHER GLITCH CUZ HE OFTEN HAS PROBLEMS WITH THE ONLINE SYSTEM.

AND THAT'S WHEN THE, UH, THE WORK WAS PERFORMED AND HE KEPT TRYING TO GET THE, THE PAYMENT DONE SO HE COULD GET HIS INSPECTIONS MADE.

UM, AND AT THAT TIME, UH, IS WHEN SOMEBODY HAD SAID, WAIT A MINUTE, THIS NEEDS TO GO THROUGH HISTORIC.

UH, WE HAD CONTACTED AMBER AND SHE HAD BEEN CONFUSED ALSO, AND WE WENT BACK TO THE ZONING FOLKS AND THEY WERE INITIALLY CONFUSED AS WELL, AND THEY EVENTUALLY REALIZED THAT THIS SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN

[01:00:01]

IT SHOULD HAVE GONE THROUGH HISTORIC AT THE BEGINNING.

SO THERE WAS A BUNCH OF MISCOMMUNICATION AND WE'RE NOT EVEN SURE HOW IT INITIALLY GOT APPROVED THROUGH EXPRESS.

IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN FLAGGED, YOU KNOW, WHEN THAT HAPPENED.

UM, AND, AND IS, I GUESS POSSIBLE, CAUSE THIS IS A BRAND NEW DISTRICT, MAYBE THEY DIDN'T HAVE IN THE SYSTEM AT THE TIME.

YEAH, BUT WELL, IT'S, IT'S NEW, BUT IT CERTAINLY WAS INTACT AND IN PLACE, UH, WOULD'VE BEEN LONG BEFORE YOU STARTED THE PROJECT, BUT YOU JUST, YOU YOU HADN'T HEARD ABOUT IT? NO, ABSOLUTELY.

NO.

UNTIL YOU, NO, THAT'S CORRECT.

UH, COMMISSIONERS, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTION OF MR. DESANT? ALL RIGHT.

WE APPRECIATE YOUR, UH, CONTRIBUTION AND, UH, IF THERE'S ANYBODY ELSE TO SPEAK, COMMISSIONERS, WE CAN CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.

MOVE TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.

COMMISSIONER ROCHE.

OH, SECOND.

AND WHO IS THE SECOND? SECOND CASTILLO, UH, COMMISSIONER CASTILLO.

UM, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF CLOSING THE PUBLIC HEARING INDICATE BY RAISING YOUR HAND SAYING, AYE OR COMBINATION OF THE TWO.

ANY OPPOSED? ALRIGHT.

THERE'S NO OPPOSED THAT, UH, PUBLIC HEARING IS CLOSED.

UH, WE CAN TAKE ACTION ON THIS.

UH, I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION.

COMMISSIONERS, THIS IS A TOUGH ONE.

AND BY WAY OF PERSPECTIVE, I'VE HAD A CHANCE TO REALLY THINK WERE THEY NOT TO HAVE MADE THESE IMPROVEMENTS? THE FATE OF THIS HOUSE WOULD ALMOST CERTAINLY BE THAT IT WOULD BE DEMOLISHED AND REPLACED BY SOMETHING NEW.

UH, IT'S A ROLL OF THE DICE, WHETHER THAT WOULD BE AN IMPROVEMENT OR WOULD BE AN AFFRONT TO OUR GUIDELINES, CUZ THEY AREN'T ALWAYS FOLLOWED.

UM, BUT I THINK IN TERMS OF THE SCALE AND THE OVERALL APPEARANCE OF THIS HOUSE, UH, I I THINK WE COULD DO A LOT WORSE.

BY THE SAME TOKEN, IT IS, AS THE APPLICANT POINTED OUT, A NEW HISTORIC DISTRICT, UH, I WOULDN'T WANT THIS TO BECOME THE NEW MODEL FOR WHAT TO DO WITH A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE BECAUSE THEY DEFINITELY MISSED ON A COUPLE OF LARGE ELEMENTS OF OUR GUIDELINES.

SO, UM, ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, IT IS UP TO US TO DETERMINE WHETHER THIS WAS APPROPRIATE AND IF IT IS NOT, IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THERE IS A SPECIFIC ENOUGH REMEDY THAT WE COULD REQUEST OR REQUIRE OF THIS APPLICANT, UH, TO BRING IT BACK INTO COMPLIANCE? YEAH, I, I IT'S A, IT'S A VERY, IT'S A VERY DIFFICULT POSITION TO BE IN BECAUSE ON THE ONE HAND WE RISK SETTING THE PRECEDENT, BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, WE, THE CITY OWE, WE OWN THE AIR.

AND I, I FEEL, UH, MR. TAYLOR, I, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S THE ERROR IN THE PERMITTING THAT HAS CREATED THE ISSUE.

UH, COMMISSIONER DUDLEY, UM, ASIDE FROM EVERYTHING, I THINK SOME SERIOUS ATTEMPT NEEDS TO BE MADE, UM, TO LOOK AT HOW THIS MISTAKE HAPPENED IN THE FIRST PLACE, UH, SO THAT WE'RE NOT PUT IN THIS SITUATION AGAIN AS A COMMISSION OR, UM, THAT OWNERS, UM, AREN'T PUT INTO THIS PLACE AS WELL.

BUT I, I HAVE A QUESTION AS TO WHY THE CHOICES, UH, FOR THE WINDOWS, THE REPLACEMENT WINDOWS AND, UH, STONE WERE MADE.

UH, THAT'S PROBABLY BEST ANSWERED BY, UH, MR. TAYLOR, YOU WANNA COME BACK AND, UH, YOU CAN, UH, COMMISSIONER DUDLEY, YOU CAN ADDRESS THAT QUESTION SPECIFICALLY TO MR. TAYLOR.

SURE.

HE'S, HE'S JUST NOW COMING BACK TO THE MICROPHONE.

GO AHEAD.

HOUSE DONE ON THE, ON THE STREET.

UM, MR. TAYLOR, COULD YOU PLEASE, UH, TELL US THE RATIONALE BEHIND THE CHOICES FOR THE REPLACEMENT WINDOWS AND MASONRY? OTHER THAN JUST THE GRAYS AND BLACK TONES ARE JUST KIND OF MY FAVORITE AND COLORS.

UH, I DIDN'T FEEL LIKE IT STUCK OUT.

IT DIDN'T SAY TOO MUCH.

IT, IT KIND OF BLENDED IN WITH THE AREA, OTHER THAN IT'S BEING THE MOST RECENT

[01:05:01]

SO, UH, BUT THAT'S, YOU KNOW, NO PARTICULAR REASON.

AND WOULD, AND WOULD THAT BE THE HOUSE RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO THE, WHAT IS THAT EAST? THAT WOULD BE THE HOUSE SOUTH, I MEAN, NORTH OF, UH, 2000 MAPLE.

AND THE, UH, THE SECOND HOUSE NORTH, IT HAD A SANDSTONE.

THE HOUSE RIGHT NEXT TO IT HAD LIMESTONE.

MM-HMM.

AND DO YOU KNOW IF THE STONE, THE MATERIAL BEFORE THAT WAS STONED OR WAS IT ALSO BRICK ON THOSE HOUSES AS WELL? UH, THAT IS, THAT WAS A, IT WAS A, LIKE A REDDISH BRICK.

I HAVE A QUESTION.

DO YOU KNOW IF THIS STONE WAS INSTALLED OVER THE BRICK? UH, IF THAT BRICK WAS REMOVED OR THAT THE VENEER WALL THAT WAS THERE WHEN I SHOWED UP, IT WAS A IMMINENT OF, OF ABOUT SEVEN INCHES OFF THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE.

IT WAS LEANING OFF THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE.

SO THAT BRICK WAS REMOVED, THAT IT WAS, IT WAS IN LIKE LEANING BECAUSE OF THE WAY IT WAS DESIGNED.

THE HOUSE SETTLED AND THE BRICK VENEER WAS GOING ONE WAY AND THE HOUSE WAS GOING THE OTHER.

SO CAN YOU CONFIRM THAT IT'S BEEN REMOVED OR, YES.

SO I THINK, I MEAN, JUST SPEAKING FROM, IF YOU HEARD ME TALK ABOUT THE LAST ONE I TALKED ABOUT LIKE SQUINTING FROM THE STREET, AND I THINK I'M GONNA TAKE THE SAME APPROACH HERE, AND I, I DIDN'T EVEN REALIZE IT UNTIL YOU, YOU BROUGHT UP THE, THE BLACK THAT I, I THINK THE BLACK COLUMNS REALLY DETRACT FROM THE HORIZONTALITY, THE, OF THE, THE FEEL OF THAT ORIGINAL FACADE THAT HAD SORT OF LIGHT, UM, JUST HAD THOSE STEEL SORT OF LATTICE, UM, COLUMNS THAT JUST SORT OF DISAPPEARED.

AND BETWEEN THAT AND THE MASONRY, I, I REALLY THINK THAT WE LOST A LOT OF THAT, THE HORIZONTAL FEEL OF THE, OF THE FACADE.

UM, I, IT IT'S JUST PERSONALLY, THE WINDOWS DON'T BOTHER ME MUCH THAT THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS MIGHT FEEL VERY DIFFERENTLY AND STRONGLY ABOUT THE WINDOWS.

TO ME, IT'S THAT REAL LOSS OF THE, THE HORIZONTAL FEEL OF THE, OF THE ORIGINAL FACADE THAT MOSTLY IN THE NEW ONE I SEE GETS IT'S LOST IN THE MASONRY AND IN THOSE COLUMNS.

AGREE.

WHAT ABOUT CHANGING THE, WHAT ABOUT CHANGING THE COLOR OF THE COLUMNS TO THE COLOR OF THE HOUSE? THE GRAY? YEAH.

I MEAN, I THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

WELL, I AGREE.

UM, AND ALSO IN SPEAKING OF THE, THE STONE VENEER, BECAUSE THE OVERALL COLOR SCHEME, NEW COLOR SCHEME, I'M NOT OPPOSED TO, UM, IT'S A VERY STRONG CONTRAST BETWEEN THOSE COLORS.

UM, AND MY QUESTION PREVIOUSLY REGARDING THE BRICK VERSUS THE STONE AND WHAT WAS THERE? UM, THE NEW MATERIAL AS FAR AS THE MASONRY COMPONENT OF THE OTHER HOUSES THAT HAVE BEEN DONE, UM, WAS, YOU KNOW, THE, APPARENTLY SOMEONE HAS APPROVED THAT BRICK WAS REPLACED WITH STONE MASONRY.

UM, AND SO I SUPPOSE THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT THE, THE COMMISSION WOULD'VE APPROVED FOR 2000 AS WELL.

UM, BUT WITH THIS STONE, AGAIN, THE STRONG CONTRAST, AND IF YOU LOOK ON THE OTHER DWELLINGS, YOU HAVE A MORE MONOCHROMATIC APPEARANCE IN THAT MATERIAL, IN THAT STONE, AS OPPOSED TO THE, THE VARIOUS GRADATIONS IN THE STONE WORK OF THE NEW MASONRY ON, UM, 2000.

SO I WOULD SUGGEST IN ADDITION, OR RECOMMEND, IN ADDITION TO CHANGING THE COLORS OF THE COLUMNS THAT SUPPORT THE CARPORT, UH, AT THE PRIMARY FACADE, THAT, UM, THE STONE BE ALTERED AS WELL.

UM, SO THAT IT'S MORE OF A MONOCHROMATIC COLOR.

I HAVE A QUESTION.

I HAVE A QUESTION ON THOSE COLUMNS.

UM, SO IT LOOKS LIKE THEY WERE REPLACED AS WELL, CORRECT? YES.

UM, IF, I'M NOT SURE IF ANYONE'S LOOKING AT THE, SOME OLDER PHOTOS, BUT THEY WERE VERY THIN, UH, COLUMNS BEFORE WITH SOME DECORATIVE METAL WORK MM-HMM.

, WHICH SHOWS AGAIN TO THAT HORIZONTALITY THAT YOU KIND OF TALKED ABOUT.

UM, I MEAN, I THINK BIG PICTURE HERE, YOU KNOW, WHEN I LOOK AT THESE PHOTOS, I DON'T SEE A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.

UH, IT'S, IT'S FRUSTRATING, YOU KNOW, AS MANY COMMISSIONERS HAVE MENTIONED THAT THIS HAPPENED.

I WISH THERE WAS A COMPROMISE, YOU KNOW, THAT WE COULD COME UP WITH, UH, TO NOT HATE THE WORD PUNISH, BUT TO NOT, YOU KNOW, PUNITIVE

[01:10:01]

UM, AND SO, AND THAT'S WHY I THOUGHT, WELL, IF THE BRICK IS STILL THERE, MAYBE WE CAN REPAIR THE BRICK AND AT LEAST LET'S MEET YOU HALFWAY.

YOU KNOW, EVEN IF WE DON'T AGREE WITH THE WINDOWS AND THE COLUMNS.

BUT I THINK THE, THE COLUMNS AND THE BRICKS STAND OUT, OR THE STONES STAND OUT THE MOST, AND THEN OF COURSE, THE COLOR JUST DOESN'T HELP IT.

SO, COMMISSIONER LAROCHE CHAIR, IF I WILL, WE, AMBER, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT WE HAVE AN UPCOMING A R C MEETING ON THE 12TH.

AND RATHER THAN TRY AND WORK ALL THIS DETAILING OUT WITH THE APPLICANT, I THINK IT WOULD BE BETTER USE OF THE APPLICANT'S TIME AND OUR TIME.

UH, IF WE COULD BRING THIS BEFORE THE, UH, THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE.

I'M SORRY, I USED THAT ACRONYM, MR. TAYLOR, I APOLOGIZE THAT, TO, TO FIND AN APPROPRIATE COMPROMISE THAT ISN'T PUNITIVE BUT ISN'T KEEPING WITH THE, THE STANDARDS FOR THE DISTRICT.

WOULD YOU BE AMENABLE TO ENGAGING US IN THAT PROCESS? YES, I WOULD, BUT YEAH, I'LL DO, DO WHAT'S, WHAT'S NECESSARY.

AND WE SHOULD POINT OUT THAT MR. TAYLOR, THAT MEETING IS MUCH MORE INFORMAL.

WE SIT AROUND, IF YOU HAVE A COUPLE OF MEMBERS, YOU'VE GOT EXPERTISE, AND I THINK EVEN THE SMALL AMOUNT OF CONVERSATION WE HAVE, UH, AND IN A PROJECT AS SIMPLE AS THIS, THOSE DETAILS CAN BE VERY POWERFUL.

AND SOME THINGS THAT YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE THOUGHT OF AS BEING IMPORTANT MAY TURN OUT TO BE SOME ADDITIONS OR ADJUSTMENTS THAT MAY NOT BE THAT MORE DIFFICULT.

AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, CHANGING SOMETHING MAY MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN KEEPING THIS PROPERTY SO THAT IT, WE CAN, IT'S NOT A LARGE HISTORIC DISTRICT, SO THEY'RE NOT A LOT OF CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES.

SO TO LOSE EVEN ONE IS SOMETHING THAT WE CARE A LOT ABOUT.

AND OBVIOUSLY THE OWNER IN, IN UPGRADING AND, AND CHOOSING TO WORK WITH THIS BUILDING AND MAKE SOMETHING SPECIAL, UH, I THINK IN THE LONG RUN ALSO BENEFITS TOO, BY HAVING A, A BUILDING THAT CONTRIBUTES.

UM, SO IT, IT IS, IT IS AN EXTRA MEETING.

IT IS, UM, OBVIOUSLY PUTTING OFF A FINAL DECISION, BUT IT DOES ALLOW, UH, A MUCH MORE DETAILED DISCUSSION OF POSSIBILITIES WITH THE EXPERTISE ON THIS COMMISSION.

SO YOU JUST HAVE TO SHOW UP AT A MEETING.

, I'LL DO IT.

AND WE HAVE A QUESTION.

UH, ANOTHER COMMENT FROM COMMISSIONER COOK, AS A, A MEMBER OF THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE, I'M, I'M MORE THAN WILLING TO DISCUSS THIS.

I'M JUST AFRAID THAT WITH SUCH A SIMPLE STRUCTURE AND SUCH MAJOR CHANGES, IT'S GONNA BE HARD TO FIND A COMPROMISE, , THAT'S GOING TO, YOU KNOW, RESTORE THIS TO WHAT IT WAS, I MEAN, SHORT OF A MINERAL PAINT ON THE STONE, BECAUSE WE CAN'T ADVISE PAINTING STONE BECAUSE THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO IN, IN PRESERVATION.

SO A BREATHABLE MINERAL PAINT, UH, WHICH ITSELF WOULD BE FAIRLY EXPENSIVE, AND THEN PAINTING THE COLUMNS IS REALLY ALL I CAN THINK OF TO, TO MINIMIZE IT.

BUT, UH, AGAIN, I'M, I'M PREPARED TO, TO BE PREPARED AND HAVE THOSE DISCUSSIONS, BUT BE PREPARED THAT I THINK WE'RE GONNA KIND OF BE IN THE SAME CONUNDRUM AS WE ARE NOW OF THE CHANGES BEING MADE, UH, BECAUSE OF A, A, AN ERROR IN THE REVIEW SYSTEM, UH, WITH THE, THE QUICK PERMITTING, HOW LONG THIS TO HAPPEN, AND, UM, AND THE REALITY THAT WE MAY JUST HAVE TO LIVE WITH THIS HAVING BECOME A NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE BECAUSE OF THAT.

UM, AND REQUIRING ANYTHING BEYOND THAT, IF, IF IT'S NOT GONNA BECOME A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE, AGAIN, MAY BE A MOOT POINT.

UM, COMMISSIONER, THIS IS JUST A, A SMALL DETAIL THAT I NOTICED THAT I, I DON'T WANT IT TO GO, UM, TO GO UNNOTICED BY THE, THE GREATER GROUP, BUT, YOU KNOW, I WAS LOOKING AT THE, YEAH.

THE LIGHTNESS OF THE PREVIOUS COLUMNS AND THE, THE METAL WORK THERE.

AND I WAS ZOOMING IN, IN THE, IN THE GOOGLE STREET VIEW, AND YOU CAN TELL IN THE WINDOWS, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A DETAILING THAT'S LIKE WITHIN THE SCREEN STRUCTURE OR, OR HOW THAT, YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T KNOW.

I'M NOT SURE WHAT THERE, THERE'S AN ADDITIONAL, UH, FLOURISH OF DETAIL THERE THAT, THAT, UM, MIXES IN WITH THE HORIZONTALITY.

IT'D BE PRETTY AWKWARD TO BRING THAT BACK NOW, IN THE, IN THE WAY THE HOUSE LOOKS RIGHT NOW.

BUT AGAIN, I'M NOT A JUDGMENT FREE STATEMENT.

I JUST WANTED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT LITTLE DETAIL THAT I SAW THERE IN THE, UH, GOOGLE STREET VIEW FOR MAYBE POSSIBLE PART OF A DISCUSSION AT THE A RRC.

UH, WITH A LITTLE CURLY DETAIL ON IT THAT I CAN SEE IN THE WINDOWS.

I BELIEVE THEY WERE HORIZONTAL TWO OVER TWOS IS WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE.

BUT WHAT ARE YOU COMPARING THEM TO THE, OR THE ORIGINAL, I'M LOOKING AT THE GOOGLE STREET VIEW.

THERE'S A, UH, LIKE A TRIANGULAR,

[01:15:01]

AND I'M NOT SURE, AGAIN, MAYBE THAT WAS JUST SOMETHING THAT WAS HANGING INSIDE THE WINDOW.

IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S ON EVERY WINDOW ON THE FRONT TO SIDE AND THE DOOR, THE DOORS AND WINDOWS HAVE THAT, MAYBE SOME IRON SCROLL WORK OR SOMETHING.

ANYWAY, JUST, I DON'T KNOW, I'M JUST THROWING IT OUT THERE THAT, UH, AGAIN, THAT'S PART OF THE DETAILING THAT WORKED WITH THE OLD COLUMNS THAT YEAH, I CHAIR, I'M A, I'M A RATHER OPTIMISTIC PERSON THAT BELIEVES THAT COMPROMISES A IS A BIT OF GIVE ON, ON BOTH SIDES.

AND MY MOTION IS TO POSTPONE THIS UNTIL THE NEXT, UH, MEETING AND HAVE THE APPLICANT MEET WITH THE, UH, ARC COMMITTEE.

I'LL SECOND THAT MOTION.

SIR, I JUST WANNA CLARIFY THAT WE WILL HAVE TO REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AS PART OF THAT MOTION.

SO THIS MOTION WILL REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING, SO WE WON'T KEEP THIS CONVERSATION GOING AT OUR NEXT MEETING.

BUT IN THE MEANTIME, WITH THIS PO POSTPONEMENT, YOU WILL BE INVITED.

THE APPLICANT WILL BE INVITED TO HAVE AN INFORMAL CONVERSATION WITH THE ARCHITECTURE REVIEW COMMITTEE AND BE ABLE TO GET INTO MORE DETAILED DISCUSSIONS ABOUT WHAT MIGHT BE POSSIBLE, A A AS WELL AS THE ARCHITECT WHO WAS ON THE CALL.

I, I BELIEVE, YEAH.

COMMISSIONER COOK.

DID YOU HAVE ANOTHER, UH, ITEM? DO YOU WANNA DISCUSS THE MOTION? YES, I'M GONNA SUPPORT THE MOTION BECAUSE IT'S NOT HOLDING UP ANY WORK.

IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, POSTPONING A DECISION ON WHAT MIGHT BE REQUIRED TO REMEDIATE THE WORK.

BUT I WOULD ENCOURAGE THE APPLICANT IF THERE'S ANY POSSIBLE CHANCE THOSE COLUMNS ARE LAYING AROUND SOMEWHERE TO PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE HOLD ONTO THEM.

THOSE COLUMN, THOSE COLUMNS WAS, UH, THEY WERE, UH, RUSTED OUT THERE, WASN'T EVEN BEARING THIS VERTICAL SUPPORT, AND THEY WERE BACKED INTO, CUZ ONE OF 'EM WAS IN THE DRIVEWAY AND THEY HAD BEEN SITTING OUT THERE FOR FOREVER.

I'M, I'M SYMPATHETIC I'VE HAD TO REMOVE THOSE BECAUSE THEY, THEY DON'T WEAR VERY WELL AFTER A PERIOD OF TIME.

NO, THOSE ARE, I MEAN, I COULD PROBABLY GET A WELDER TO BUILD SOMETHING SIMILAR IF YOU WANNA SEE SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT, THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY BE INTERESTING.

SO AGAIN, THIS IS, UH, IF THE MOTION CARRIES, THIS WOULD BE THE KIND OF CONVERSATION WE WOULD HAVE AT THE COMMITTEE MEETING.

UH, WE HAVE, UH, COMMISSIONER, WOULD YOU WANT TO ADD TO YOUR DISCUSSION OF YOUR MOTION? NO, I, NO.

UH, COMMISSIONER FEATHERSTON, ANY, ANY OTHER DISCUSSION OF THE MOTION? THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

WE'RE ABOUT TO TAKE A VOTE.

UH, IF NO ONE HAS ANY OTHER THINGS TO SAY ABOUT THE MOTION, THEN I'LL CALL THE QUESTION THOSE IN FAVOR OF THE POSTPONEMENT TO OUR AUGUST MEETING WITH A REQUEST FOR THE APPLICANT TO MEET WITH THE ARCHITECTURE REVIEW COMMITTEE.

IN THE MEANTIME, UH, INDICATE BY RAISING YOUR HAND.

THAT CARRIES UNANIMOUSLY.

AND ANY OPPOSED? ALL RIGHT.

AND AGAIN, WE THANK THE APPLICANT FOR YOUR TIME AND YOUR CONTRIBUTION AND HOPE TO SEE YOU AT THE MEETING OF MS. ALLEN.

YOU'LL BE FOLLOWING UP WITH THEM.

YES, I'LL SEND A EMAIL TOMORROW.

FANTASTIC.

UH, THIS IS THE, UH, 1412 WEST SIXTH HALF STREET, UH, THE JOHNSON HOUSE.

THAT BRINGS US TO ITEM NUMBER NINE.

[9. HR-2023-067282 – 1412 W. 6th Half Street. – Discussion Johnson House ]

AND THERE IS A DISCUSSION ABOUT INSTALLING, UH, FENCING ON THE PROPERTY.

THANK YOU CHAIR.

UH, THIS IS A PROPOSAL, UH, TO CONSTRUCT A FENCE ATOP AN EXISTING RETAINING WALL FOR A LANDMARK BUILDING IN THIS MO TERRACE PARK HISTORIC DISTRICT.

UM, THE PROJECT SPECIFIES A THREE FOOT WROUGHT IRON FENCE ATOP RETAINING WALLS AT BORDER SIX AND A HALF STREET AND ALONG HIGHLAND AVENUE, UM, AS WELL AS INSTALLATION OF SOME WR IRON PEDESTRIAN GATES AT THE TWO ENTRY STAIRWAYS AND THE ONE ENTRY GATE AT THE DRIVEWAY.

UH, THIS IS A TWO-STORY VICTORIAN HOUSE CONSTRUCTED IN THE 1877, UH, WITH HORIZONTAL WOOD SIDING.

UH, AN L PLAN WITH A BAY WINDOW AND PORCHES AT THE FIRST AND SECOND FLOOR, AND FOUR OVER FOUR WOOD WINDOWS.

THE PROJECT MEETS SOME OF THE APPLICABLE STANDARDS FOR HISTORIC LANDMARKS.

UM, BUT THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS TO REQUEST A LOWER FENCE HEIGHT AND OR OMISSION OF THE SPIKED PICKETS, UM, PER PENDING COUNSEL RESOLUTION 20 23 0 6, 0 8 0 5 8, UH, WHICH IS COMING BACK TO COUNSEL ON THE 20TH, I BELIEVE.

UM, AND THAT IS A, UH, SAFETY ORDINANCE FOR, UM, FLAT TOP FENCES.

UM, THANK YOU MS. GUTIERREZ.

UH, BY SOME OF THE ADVOCATES FOR, UH, SAFETY FENCING AND, UH, SHARED WITH US SOME VERY SERIOUS CONCERNS ABOUT THE SAFETY OF THESE.

UM, AND COMMISSIONERS, WHAT MS. GUTIERREZ IS REFERRING TO, UH, SOME OF YOU MAY REMEMBER YOUR NEWER, NEWER COMMISSIONERS MAY NOT HAVE, UH, SEEN THIS, BUT THERE WAS A PRESENTATION THAT WAS MADE AT THE COMMISSION,

[01:20:01]

UH, I KNOW THEY'RE HISTORIC, BUT, UH, THESE FENCES WITH SHARP EDGES ON THE TOP, UH, CAN CAUSE REAL DAMAGE AND HAVE IN THE PAST.

AND SO, UH, I BELIEVE THAT'S IN PROCESS AND, UH, BUT IS NOT BEEN ENFORCED YET.

AND SO THAT CERTAINLY WOULD COME INTO PLAY IN OUR CONVERSATION HERE FOR, UH, OUR REVIEW OF THIS PROPOSAL.

UM, IS THE APPLICANT HERE AND, UH, WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A PRESENTATION? YES, PLEASE.

SO HERE, HERE'S THE SIGHT LINE ISSUE.

THANK YOU FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY.

I'M JEFF ALBRECHT HERE WITH MY FAMILY.

THIS IS OUR FAMILY HOUSE.

I THINK IT'S A, A BEAUTIFUL, UM, CONTRIBUTION FOR THE, THE CITY.

I WANT TO DO THIS RIGHT.

SO I APPRECIATE YOUR HELP IN THIS, UH, CITY STAFF.

AS YOU MENTIONED, WE HAVE TO SAY, WE COMPLIMENT YOU ALSO AS THE STEWARD OF A HISTORIC HOME TRYING, I'M TRYING A LOT, LOT OF, LOT OF RESPONSIBILITY INVOLVED, SO, THANK YOU.

SO CITY STAFF HAS RECOMMENDED AGAINST THE PROPOSED USE OF FINIALS ON THE STAFF, ON THE ON THE FENCE, CITING THE RECENTLY DRAFTED, BUT NOT FINAL NOR APPROVED FENCING SAFETY CODE THAT PROMOTES FLAT TOP FENCES.

I'LL SPEAK TO THE DRAFT SAFETY CODE OF FINIALS IN A MOMENT BECAUSE SAFETY IS ACTUALLY MY MAIN CONCERN FOR BUILDING THIS FENCE.

BUT REGARDLESS OF HOW YOU SEE MY FENCE SAFETY ARGUMENTS, I REQUEST THAT YOU USE CURRENT CODE TO APPROVE MY FENCE DESIGN.

BECAUSE GOOD GOVERNMENTS GOVERNANCE REQUIRES ENFORCEMENT OF CURRENT RULES, NOT YET, UH, SOME YET TO BE DETERMINED STANDARD.

UM, AND IN THE EVENT THE COMMITTEE DOES NOT DECIDE TO USE THE PROPO OR DOES DECIDE TO USE A PROPOSED DRAFT CODE INSTEAD OF EXISTING CODE, THEN I, I WOULD SUGGEST IT STILL SHOULD APPROVE THE FINIAL DESIGN CUZ THE DRAFT LANGUAGE EXPLICITLY STATES THE SUB, THE, THE SUBSECTION REQUIRING FLAT TOP FENCES DOES NOT APPLY TO A FENCE THAT FOLLOWS HISTORIC DESIGN STANDARDS.

MY PROPOSAL FITS SQUARELY WITHIN THE LANGUAGE OF THE NEW DRAFT CODE AND ALSO THE HISTORIC DESIGN STANDARDS PREVIOUSLY ADOPTED BY THIS COMMITTEE.

BUT ALSO ASK EVERYONE TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE SAFETY CONCERNS I'M ADDRESSING, WHICH INCLUDES CHILDREN AND ANIMALS FALLING OVER RETAINING WALL DIRECTLY ONTO STREET PAVEMENT.

ONE OF THE MOST WIDELY CITED FENCE SAFETY STUDIES WAS CONDUCTED IN 1994 BY RABINOVICH, AND IT DEMONSTRATED 30% OF FOUR YEAR OLDS CAN QUICKLY SURMOUNT A FOUR FOOT FLAT TOP IRON FENCE.

THE SAME STUDY ALSO SHOWED THAT ADDING A CLIMB DETERRENT TO THE FENCE TOP PREVENTED A HUNDRED PERCENT OF THESE CHILDREN FROM DOING SO.

FINIALS PREVENT ACTIVE CLIMBERS FROM SURMOUNTING FENCES WHILE ALSO SERVING AS DETERRENCE FROM CLIMBING.

THEY COMMUNICATE, CLIMBING IS FORBIDDEN HERE.

THIS ISN'T A JUNGLE GYM.

DON'T SIT OR HANG ON THIS FENCE.

AND PLEASE ASK, I ASK THE CITY STAFFERS WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE, THE DRAFT CODE TO SHOW DATA A SAFETY MODEL AS TO HOW AN EASY TO CLIMB FENCE ON A RETAINING WALL ABUTTING THE STREET IS SAFER FOR MY GRANDCHILDREN THAN A FENCE WITH CLIMB DETERRENT FINIALS.

UM, BUT THERE IS NO DATA SHOWING THAT, AND THERE'S NO DATA SHOWING THEY'RE SAFER AGAINST SWIMMING POOL DROWNINGS OR DOG ATTACKS.

WHEN I WENT LOOKING AT ANSWERS, I FOUND FLATTOP FENCE REGULATIONS ARE REALLY DESIGNED TO PREVENT DEER AND RURAL AREAS FROM GETTING ENTANGLED OR RESTRAINED AND HAD LITTLE TO DO WITH CHILD SAFETY UNTIL, UM, ONE TRAFFIC TRAGIC EVENT RECENTLY UPON A, A CHILD'S CLIMBING DEATH THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH FINIALS, UH, WAS WAS USED KIND OF TO, TO PROMOTE THIS.

AND THAT, THAT THAT ONE INSTANCE HAS THE FENCE THAT WAS U WAS IN THERE WAS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN THE FENCE THAT I'M USING.

UM, THE SHORT-SIGHTED SAFETY REGULATIONS, I THINK RISK THROWING THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATHWATER.

AND I, AGAIN, I ASK, UM, HOW AN EASY TO CLIMB THREE FOOT FLATTOP FENCE LEADING TO A SEVEN FOOT DROP ONTO THE STREET IS SAFER FOR ANYONE THAN A THREE FOOT FENCE THAT CAN'T BE SURMOUNTED.

UM, SO THOSE ARE MY, THOSE ARE MY POINTS AND I FEEL REALLY STRONGLY ABOUT THIS AS YOU CAN TELL ABOUT THE, ABOUT THE FINIALS.

UM, AND THEN THE FENCE HEIGHT, UM, THE, THE COMMENT THAT THE CITY STAFF HAD ON FENCE HA HEIGHT, I REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND.

UM, CUZ I'M TRYING TO, ORIGINALLY I WANTED TO HAVE A, LIKE A TWO FOOT OR THREE FOOT, UH, BUT I THINK SAFETY CODE REQUIRES A THREE FOOT FENCE ON THERE, SO I CAN'T IMAGINE GOING LOWER THAN THAT.

UM, OKAY.

AND, AND I THINK I HAVE ON, ON THE PRESENTATION IF YOU CAN SHOW SOME OF THE SIGHT LINES.

I THINK THE, MAYBE THE FOURTH, THE FOURTH, UH, UH, LITTLE BIT FARTHER UP.

FIRST ONE THAT COULD BE AN OLD, UH, CAN YOU GO DOWN A LITTLE BIT MORE ANYWAYS? LOOKING AT THE SIGHT LINE WHEN YOU'RE, UH, THERE WAS A, A DIFFERENT PHOTO DOWN BELOW THAT.

ONE MORE, ONE MORE.

THERE WE GO.

[01:25:01]

THE, THE FENCE, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE FRONT OF IT, IT'S A THREE FOOT, UH, WALL RETAINING WALL AT THAT POINT, OR I'M SORRY, FOUR FOOT RETAINING WALL AT THAT POINT WITH A THREE FOOT FENCE ON TOP.

AND THE REASON I CHOSE THREE FEET IS BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE HISTORIC FENCES AROUND TOWN AS I WENT AND LOOKED AT, UM, WERE USING, UH, IT'S ALSO FROM A, A CODE SAFETY STANDPOINT ABOUT RAILINGS ON PEDESTRIAN AREAS OR AREAS WHERE CHILDREN CLIMB AND NOT FALL OVER A, A WALL IS THE, THE PROPER CODE FOR THAT.

UM, AND THEN LOOKING AT THE SIGHT LINES, IT, IT, UM, UM, DOES IT, YOU KNOW, IT WILL AFFECT A LITTLE BIT JUST RIGHT ON THE STEPS, BUT THE REST OF THE MAIN PORTION OF THE, THE HOUSE WILL NOT BE AFFECTED.

UM, OKAY.

UH, MR. ULBRICH, THANK YOU, UH, COMMISSIONERS.

IS THERE ANY QUESTION OF THE APPLICANT? YEAH, COMMISSIONER ROCHE, I, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF.

UH, THE APPLICANT MENTIONED, UH, AN EXEMPTION FOR HISTORIC STRUCTURES.

IS THAT ACCURATE IN THE PROPOSED YES.

COMMISSIONER? UM, UNFORTUNATELY IT HAS BEEN REVISED, UH, RECENTLY TO, UH, SPECIFY THAT, UM, THE EXCEPTION IS NOT FOR, UM, ALL OF THE, UH, HISTORIC PROPERTIES.

SO IT WILL BE, UM, I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER THE WORDING.

UH, BUILDINGS THAT COMPLY, UM, WITH THE HISTORIC DESIGN STANDARDS, UH, MUST COMPLY TO THE EXTENT OF THE SAFETY PROVISIONS IN THE NEW ORDINANCE.

I'M NOT GONNA GET YOU THE EXACT WORDING, BUT IT'S, UH, THE EXCEPTION HAS BEEN EFFECTIVELY REMOVED AS IT'S PROPOSED.

IT HAS NOT YET PASSED.

IS THERE ANYONE ELSE HERE TO SPEAK ON THIS MOTION? EXCUSE ME, ON THIS ITEM? OKAY.

UH, COMMISSIONERS, DO YOU HAVE ANY? YES.

UH, GO AHEAD.

UH, COMMISSIONER ALVAREZ, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT ON THE HIGHLAND SIDE.

UH, I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S KEEPING THE RETAINING WALL IN PLACE.

IT LOOKS LIKE LIMESTONE.

I DON'T SEE MORTAR, SO I WAS JUST WONDERING IF THE ADDITION OF DEFENSE WILL ALSO REQUIRE MODIFICATION TOO.

AND THAT'S ON THE, THAT'S ON THE HIGHLAND SIDE, YOU'RE ASKING ABOUT? YES, THAT'S CORRECT.

ON THE HIGHLAND SIDE, YES.

SO BEHIND IT'S, THERE ARE ACTUALLY TWO RETAINING WALLS THERE.

THE, UH, THERE IS A, UM, CONCRETE RETAINING WALL BEHIND THAT.

UM, I FORGET WHAT THE TERM IS, BUT WHERE ROCKS ARE LAID ON TOP OF ROCKS.

UM, SO IT AC THAT STRUCTURE THERE ON THAT WALL ACTUALLY ENDS UP BEING, UM, ALMOST FOUR FEET THICK OF A RETAINING WALL BECAUSE IT'S, UM, IT'S A, A VERY WELL CONSTRUCTED ROCK ON ROCK RETAINING WALL THAT IS IN FRONT OF A, A PREVIOUS RETAINING WALL.

DOES THAT ANSWER THE QUESTION? AND, AND THERE, AND THAT, THAT ROCK ON ROCK IS, UH, MORTARED TO THE, UM, ON THE BACKSIDE TO THE CONCRETE WALL BEHIND IT? YES, THAT ANSWERS THE QUESTION.

COMMISSIONER ALVAREZ, UM, ANY OTHER COMMISSIONERS? YES, I HAD A QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT.

IS, IS THIS FENCE GOING TO BE A COMPLETELY CUSTOM FENCE? YES.

THE GATES OR SOMETHING, BUT I, I SURELY DON'T THINK THE CITY WANTS ME TO HAVE A LOWER THAN THREE FOOT FENCE ON A WALL.

YEAH, AND, AND WITH THE, AND YOU KNOW, I, I THINK WE HAVE SOME DESIGNS HERE AND SOME PHOTOS LOOKING OVER ON SAN ANTONIO AND BLANCO AND, AND LOOKING AT WHAT OTHER PEOPLE HAVE DONE TO, TO, UM, YEAH, THERE, THERE ARE SOME OF THE PHOTOS AND, UM, ON BAYLOR STREET, I THINK ARE THE, THE OTHER, THE MOST RECENT PEOPLE WHO HAVE TRIED TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

AND SO THE, THE DIRECTIONS I'M, I'M GIVING THE, UH, THE FENCE MAKER IS TO MAKE THAT FENCE WITH THE EXAM, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF SOME LARGER FIN, SOME WIDER FINIALS.

UH, WE'RE DOING THREE AND A HALF INCH SPACED PICKETS, BUT THE FINIALS WILL BE ONE AND A HALF TO TWO INCHES WIDE SO THAT THE, THE CLOSURE, THE SPACE BETWEEN AT THE TOP WILL BE LESS THAN THREE INCHES, MORE LIKE 2.75 INCHES FOR, FOR ADDITIONAL SAFETY FACTORS.

AND, AND IS YOUR OBJECTION TO THE, THE, THE CHANGE IN DESIGN REQUIREMENTS OR THE HEIGHT REQUIREMENTS OR BOTH? I, I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE HEIGHT REQUIREMENT, WHAT THEY WANT.

I, I'M PROPOSING A THREE FOOT FENCE.

I DON'T, I THINK IT, I DON'T UNDERSTAND.

MAYBE THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT

[01:30:01]

AND I THINK WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO UNTANGLE THAT AND, AND THE CURRENT STATUS OF THAT RESOLUTION.

BUT WOULD YOU BE OPEN POTENTIALLY TO A CUSTOM DESIGN THAT MAY COMBINE THE FINIALS WITH A BACKING ROD BEHIND THEM THAT MAY MEET THE REQUIREMENTS THAT'S SLIGHTLY ABOVE THE TIP OF THE FINIALS THAT MAY SERVE AS A CATCH FROM THE BACKSIDE THAT MAY BE NOT VISIBLE FROM THE EXTERIOR? THAT'S, THAT'S IN MY, THAT'S IN MY DESIGN, I BELIEVE, UH, WITH THE CANTILEVER SUPPORTS TO, TO, UH, SUPPORT THE, THE FENCES.

WELL, I, I WAS TALKING ABOUT SOME, MAYBE A BAR THAT'S SLIGHTLY HIGHER THAN THE TIP OF THE FINIAL THAT COMES UP BEHIND THAT KIND OF CREATES A HIGHER CATCH IF TO, TO MEET THE INTENT OF THE RESOLUTION THAT ANYTHING FALLING WOULD HIT A BAR BEHIND BEFORE WITHOUT BEING IMPALED.

UM, IT WOULD CREATE A VISUAL LINE ALONG THE TOP OF THE FINIALS AND BEHIND THE FINIALS.

BUT I'M, I'M JUST TRYING TO FIND A WAY HOW MANY OPTIONS THAT WE MAY HAVE TO, TO UNTANGLE THIS.

I'M, I'M, I'M THINKING OF AN ADDITIONAL ELEMENT TO THE FENCE THAT MAYBE COMES OUT AND RAISES UP BEHIND THE FINIALS THAT YOU HAVE YOUR FINIALS AND THEN YOU HAVE A CONTINUOUS BAR THAT'S SLIGHTLY BEHIND IT THAT CREATES, UH, A EFFECTIVELY A FLAT TOP THAT'S SLIGHTLY ABOVE AND BEHIND THE FINS.

I, I'M ALL FOR ANY CLIMB DETERRENT OPTIONS THAT, UM, THAT YOU CAN RECOMMEND.

UH, MY REAL ISSUE IS WE HAVE GRANDCHILDREN AND DOGS.

WE'VE ALREADY HAD A DOG OVER THE, THE WALL.

IF I PUT A FLAT FENCE ON THERE, I ENVISION THE DOG WOULD HAVE A FARTHER FALL.

I ENVISION GRANDCHILDREN HAVING THE FALL.

BUT IF THERE'S A, AN OPTION THAT FITS WITH A, A CLIMB DETERRENT OPTION WITH, WITH THE CITIES, YOU KNOW, NOT FLAT STUFF, I THINK I'VE ADDRESSED THAT.

I'M GOING TO ADDRESS THAT BECAUSE IT'S REALLY CHILD SAFETY THAT I'M AFTER HERE IS WITH THE ILS, WITH THE WIDE FINIALS.

I THINK THE ISSUE IS, CAN A CHILD GET THEIR NECK IN THE, BETWEEN THE, THE, THE TOP OF THE ILS? AND SO THAT'S WHAT I'M ADDRESSING WITH, UH, THE WIDE FINIALS.

UH, BUT I THINK THOSE OTHER TWO SAFETY CONCERNS ARE, ARE PARAMOUNT.

COMMISSIONERS, ANY OTHER COMMENTS, QUESTIONS? ALRIGHT.

UH, MR. ALBRIGHT, WE THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

UM, I WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.

UH, SO MOVED.

SO, SO, WELL, I THINK I'VE GOT A MOTION ALREADY FROM, UH, COMMISSIONER MCW WHO SECONDED THAT COMMISSIONER COOK SECOND.

UH, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF CLOSING PUBLIC HEARING INDICATE BY SAYING AYE.

THOSE OPPOSED? HEARING NONE.

UH, THE MOTION PASSES AND WE WILL PROCEED TO A MOTION.

COMMISSIONERS, WHAT IS YOUR PLEASURE? OKAY, COMMISSIONER LAROCHE, I, I JUST HAVE A, I HAVE ODD QUESTION FOR COMMISSIONER.

UH, COOK, DO YOU HAVE THE SAME FENCE ON THE CAPITAL GROUND WITH THE FINIALS? UH, IT KINDA LOOKS LIKE YOU DO.

WE WE HAVE STARTALK FINIALS ON THE CAPITOL FENCE.

MAKE A MOTION TO POSTPONE THIS TO THE NEXT MONTH'S MEETING WITH AN INVITATION TO THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE MEETING AND AN ADDITIONAL INVITATION TO SOMEONE FROM THE DE THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT, WHO COULD PARTICIPATE IN THE CONVERSATION TO, UH, FIND THE BEST RESOLUTION THAT MAY BE ADMINISTRATIVELY APPROVED AFTER THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE MEETING NEXT WEEK.

THAT, THAT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE A MOTION THOUGH, .

WELL, NO, I, I, I WAS LOOKING AT OTHER EXAMPLES.

I WAS, WE DO NEED A MOTION TO PROCEED.

WELL, IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT ONE OF THE MAIN, MAIN THINGS THAT THE APPLICANT WOULD NEEDS CLARIFICATION ON, ON IS, IS THE, THE HEIGHT OF THE FENCE.

UM, SO I THINK, UM, I'M NOT SURE HOW TO PUT THAT INTO A MOTION, BUT, UM, THERE'S DEFINITELY SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION THAT'S NEEDED BEFORE WE, I THINK MOVE FORWARD.

UM, WELL, UH, I DON'T THINK COMMISSIONER CASTILLO, MAYBE WE SHOULD ASK YES, SIR.

MS. CONTRERAS, MAYBE WE SHOULD ASK MS. CONTRERAS YEAH.

A LITTLE BIT MORE OF CLARIFICATION WHAT SHE HAD IN MIND AND, UH, DON'T, DON'T LET ME INTERRUPT THE REST OF YOUR CONVERSATION, SO NO, NO, THAT'S, I MEAN, THAT TO ME, THAT'S WHAT STOOD OUT, UM, MORE THAN ANYTHING, ASIDE FROM THE, UM, THE DESIGN, UH, IS, IT'S THE HEIGHT, UM, IT SEEMS TO, IT SEEMED TO BE A, A CONCERN.

SO WE CAN ADDRESS THAT MS. AND I THINK GOING IN THAT DIRECTION, IF I COULD

[01:35:01]

I'D SECOND THAT.

UH, I ACTUALLY, COMMISSIONER CASTILLO, YOU WERE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF ASKING A QUESTION, THOUGH.

WERE YOU ABOUT TO MAKE A MOTION FIRST? NO, NO, NO, I WASN'T.

I WAS THINK YOU DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO MAKE THAT MOTION, SO, OKAY, THEN I KNOW COMMISSIONER COOK, YOU JUMPED RIGHT IN.

UH, AND SO WE HAVE A MOTION NOW TO, UH, POSTPONE THIS TO THE AUGUST MEETING, UH, WITH A REQUEST TO HAVE THIS REFERRED TO THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE.

AND THAT WAS, UH, BY COMMISSIONER COOK.

AND THAT WAS, UH, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER RUBIO.

UM, CHAIR, WOULD YOU LIKE CLARIFICATION? UH, BUT WHILE WE'RE AT IT, AND YES.

, WHILE I'M UP HERE, MR. CONTRERAS, YOU'RE HERE, LET'S, LET'S CAPTURE ALL OF THIS AND PLEASE, UH, EXPLAIN WHAT YOU HAD IN MIND WITH THE HEIGHT, UH, CUMULATIVE, UH, FENCE HEIGHT.

SO ATOP THE EXISTING, UM, RETAINING WALL WOULD BRING THE CUMULATIVE HEIGHT ABOVE FOUR FEET.

UM, HOWEVER, GIVEN THE TRANSPARENCY OF THIS FENCE, UM, AT LEAST THE FENCE TOPPER, UM, I'M AMENABLE TO A HIGHER FENCE.

SO YOU, YOU HAD NO SPECIFIC ISSUE OTHER THAN JUST LOOKING AT THE TOTAL FROM THE, FROM THE STREET SIDE.

THE DESIGN STANDARDS DON'T OFFER A WHOLE LOT OF NUANCE, BUT, UM, YEAH, NO SPECIFIC CONCERNS.

DO THEY SPECIFY THAT THE MEASUREMENTS TAKEN FROM THE EXTERIOR OF THE FENCE OR LIKE THE DOWNHILL SIDE OF THE FENCE OR NO, NO SPECIFICATION.

WE HAVE A MOTION, UH, WITH THE MAKER OF THE MOTION.

WANT TO SPEAK ON THAT? COMMISSIONER COOK? YES.

I JUST THINK WE JUST HAVE, UH, A LOT OF MO A LOT OF ELEMENTS TO CONSIDER HERE, AND ONE OF THEM IS APPARENTLY IN, IN DEVELOPMENT AND CHANGING, YOU KNOW, AS WE SPEAK.

SO I, I JUST THINK IT'S GONNA TAKE SOME UNTANGLING ALONG, UH, WITH, WITH CODE COMPLIANCE AS, AS WELL AS, YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE BEING ASKED TO APPROVE ISSUES RELATED TO THAT HAVE TIES TO CODE, UH, AS WELL AS, AND NOW THE DESIGN ITSELF IS TIED TO CODE, RIGHT? SO IT MAKES IT REALLY COMPLICATED FOR US TO APPROVE OR, OR DISAPPROVE SOMETHING THAT MAY BE NOT CODE COMPLIANT TO BEGIN WITH.

SO IT'S ALMOST LIKE IT, IT, IT NEEDS TO GO THROUGH CODE REVIEW BEFORE IT COMES TO US TO KNOW WHETHER WE'RE REVIEWING A CODE COMPLIANT ELEMENT.

SO I JUST THINK IF WE WERE ALL TO SIT DOWN AT THE SAME TABLE, UH, AND HAVE THE DISCUSSION, THAT MIGHT BE THE BEST WAY TO HAMMER IT ALL OUT.

OF A HISTORIC HOUSE, UH, AGAIN, I, ON THESE CONVERSATIONS, I WEIGH IN SAYING, HEY, IT MAY BE A MODERN FENCE, BUT WE HAVE A LOT OF DESIGN IDEAS THAT WE CAN WORK WITH, INCLUDING SOME THAT WERE REALLY GOOD AND HAVE STOOD THE TEST OF A HUNDRED YEARS TIME.

COMMISSIONER RUBIAN.

YEAH, I THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD TO GET WITH THE APPROVED LANGUAGE FOR THIS PROPOSED FENCE CHANGES THAT'S HAPPENING, JUST TO DECIDE, I GUESS, CAN, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE'RE GONNA REQUIRE OR LOOK AT, UM, IF WE'RE JUST LOOKING AT CODE STUFF ARC AND NOT REALLY, YOU KNOW, GONNA HAVE CHANGES TO THE SPINDLE TOPS OR REQUIRE A FLAT TOP OR REQUIRE CERTAIN DIMENSIONS BETWEEN THE, THE SPIKES, I DON'T KNOW.

IT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT AS WELL.

A LOT OF DETAILS.

WELL, THAT KIND OF BRINGS UP A RELATED QUESTION, WHICH IS, UH, IS IT CLEAR THAT IN THE COURSE OF THIS MONTH, POSTPONEMENT, WILL THIS FENCE CODE THAT WE ARE REFERRING TO ALREADY BE ENACTED, IS IT ON A FAST ENOUGH TRACK THAT THAT WILL BE IMPACTING THE DECISION? IT IS LIKELY COMMISSIONER, SO THEN WE COULD BE IN AN AWKWARD POSITION OF HAVING WHAT IS NOW CURRENTLY A RECOMMENDATION OF THE STAFF, BUT NOT A REQUIREMENT BY CODE, JUST BY VIRTUE OF WAITING WE COULD TURN INTO, UH, NOW WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED NO LONGER BE, UH, ALLOWED BY CODE? THAT'S CORRECT.

I, I HAVE SOME PROBLEM WITH THAT AND THAT, UM, I, I THINK THE INTERESTING THAT WE DIDN'T TOUCH ON WHAT GENERALLY HAS BEEN THE FENCE QUESTION WHEN THIS HAS BEEN RAISED, WHICH IS, UH, THE EXTENT TO WHICH THIS OWNER IS PROPOSING A DECORATIVE FENCE THAT IS, I PERSONALLY THINK QUITE APPROPRIATE FOR A BUILDING OF THIS AGE AND STYLE.

AND I APPRECIATED THE PRECEDENT THAT THEY SHOWED OF OTHER SIMILAR FENCES IN OTHER PARTS OF THE CITY WITH SIMILAR AGED BUILDINGS.

OH.

AND DOWN THE STREET FROM THEM RIGHT DOWN THE STREET.

HOWEVER, THERE'S A GOOD CHANCE THAT MOST OF THE BUILDINGS THAT THEY WERE CITING AND MOST OF THE FENCES THAT THEY WERE CITING ARE GOOD 80 TO A HUNDRED YEARS OLD.

AND THE EXTENT TO WHICH THAT WE ARE NOW INTRODUCING A NON HISTORIC ELEMENT IN FRONT

[01:40:01]

BUT THERE ARE OTHERS WHO, UH, WEIGH IN ON THAT AND SAY, YOU DON'T WANNA MAKE IT LOOK LIKE IT WAS A HUNDRED YEARS, UH, FALSELY WHEN IT WASN'T.

UH, BUT, UH, THAT WASN'T THE GIST OF OUR CONVERSATION SO FAR.

WELL, IT'S, SO I THOUGHT I'D THROW THAT ONE IN TOO.

IT'S, IT'S DISCUSSION.

AND I THINK THIS DISCUSSION IS APPROPRIATE, AND I, I TEND TO AGREE WITH YOU, WE'RE, WE'RE ACTING ON PROPOSED LANGUAGE THAT WE DON'T KNOW IS FACTUAL, RIGHT? IT'S A STAFF RECOMMENDATION ON WHAT THEY BELIEVE IS PROPOSED LANGUAGE THAT WILL PASS.

BUT AT THIS POINT, AND AS THE APPLICANT HAD POINTED OUT, IT'S NOT CODE LANGUAGE PRESENTLY.

CORRECT.

AND, AND, AND SO I THINK I, I AGREE WITH YOUR SENTIMENTS.

I AGREE THAT IT IS IN KEEPING WITH THE PERIOD AND THE STYLE OF ARCHITECTURE, AND I AS, AS, AS THE PRIOR CASE, I, I DON'T WANT TO BE PUNITIVE IN THIS MATTER.

AND I THINK EVEN IF IT WAS INADVERTENT, THAT SOUNDS LIKE THAT'S WHAT WOULD BE THE CASE IF, IF, UH, THE, THE ENACTED CODE PASSES WHILE WE'RE STILL DELIBERATING.

SO, UM, ANYBODY ELSE WANNA WEIGH IN ON THIS? THIS IS ALL PART OF A MOTION RIGHT NOW THAT WE HAVE MOVED AND SECONDED TO, UH, POSTPONE THIS, UH, TILL THE AUGUST MEETING.

I, I, I REALLY THOUGHT THAT INSTALL NEW FENCING WAS THE RIGHT TIME TO GO TO THE RESTROOM.

AND I SO I APOLOGIZE FOR MISSING THE, THE BEGINNING OF THIS.

AND I I'M EXTREMELY SYMPATHETIC TO THE, THE SAFETY CONCERNS THAT YOU'VE BROUGHT UP.

UM, VERY, VERY MUCH SO.

UM, I'M NOT SURE I'M GONNA SUPPORT THE MOTION.

I DON'T THINK I'M GOING TO, I, UH, BECAUSE I, I THINK THAT THIS, WE SHOULD APPROVE IT AS PROPOSED.

UM, BUT THAT'S MY STAND.

HAVE WE SEEN ANY HISTORIC PHOTOS SHOWING ANY POSSIBLE FENCING? HAVE, HAS ANYONE DONE ANY RESEARCH? OH, THAT THERE MAY HAVE BEEN FENCES, UH, AT THE PROPERTY PRIOR? THAT'S KINDA WHAT YOU, YOU BROUGHT UP OF, YOU KNOW, IS IT APPROPRIATE AND IF, IF, IF WE'RE, IF WE'RE CREATING THE FALSE HISTORY OR DO WE WANT TO MATCH SOMETHING THAT WAS THERE, UM, AND THAT WOULD CHANGE THE DESIGN OF THAT.

SO DOES THAT PHOTO HAVE ANY, IF THAT'S A HISTORIC PHOTO YOU GOT NO.

YOU DON'T SEE ANY FENCING? NO.

THE TIMES THAT I FOLLOWED IN BETWEEN, AND THEN IN THE LAST FOUR YEARS THAT I'VE BEEN ON THE COMMISSION, UH, I CAN ANSWER YOUR QUESTION.

WE COULD ASK THE APPLICANT, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY EVIDENCE THAT THERE WAS FENCING THERE AT ANY PARTICULAR TIME? NO.

THERE, THERE'S NO, NO FENCING THERE.

IT WAS A 20 ACRE AT, AT, THAT WAS A TURN OF THE CENTURY PHOTO, AND AT THAT POINT IT WAS 20 ACRES FROM SIXTH STREET TO TO NINTH STREET.

UM, BUT THE HOUSE, SMOOT HOUSE NEXT TO IT, THEY HAVE A, A, YOU KNOW, THEY'VE PUT A FENCE, WHICH IS THE, THE CONTEMPORARY HOUSE OF THAT.

I'VE GONE AROUND THE CITY LOOKING FOR LOTS OF FENCES AND IT JUST, IT, THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT THEY HISTORIC HOUSES HAVE.

UM, OR SIMPLER HOUSES.

I'VE DONE A LOT OF RESEARCH ALSO.

I'VE NOT SEEN ANY FLAT TOP FENCES.

AND I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY FOR A REASON.

THAT'S SORT OF A MODERN CONSTRUCT.

UM, AND I, I'M NOT AN ARCHITECT, I THOUGHT YOU, UM, BUT, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S THE RESEARCH I'VE DONE.

AND I'VE ALSO LOOKED AT A LOT OF HISTORIC CODES LIKE SAN ANTONIO, CODE NEW ZEALAND, YOU KNOW, JUST DONE A LOT OF ONLINE STUFF AND I'VE TRIED TO DO THE, THE VERY BEST AND, AND ALSO TALKED WITH A LOT OF NEIGHBORS AND FAMILY AND OTHER PEOPLE, AND THEY'RE LIKE, YEAH, OF COURSE IT SHOULD BE THAT FENCE.

THAT'S JUST WHAT PEOPLE THINK IT SHOULD BE.

AND, AND I REALLY, I REALLY FEAR THAT IF IT'S NOT A FENCE LIKE THAT OR SOME DESIGN LIKE THAT, THAT IT'S GONNA LOOK SILLY AND NOT SERVE THE SAFETY PURPOSE.

UM, SO, OKAY, MR. BERG, THANK YOU.

UM, COMMISSIONERS, WE HAVE A MOTION TO POSTPONE WITH THE UNDERSTOOD IMPLICATIONS.

I'M SORRY, I HAVE, IS THERE SOMEBODY, I HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION ELSE WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK TO IT.

I HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION.

UM, YES, COMMISSIONER, I, I KNOW WE TALKED ABOUT ON ANOTHER, UH, APPLICANT ABOUT SETTING A PRECEDENT THAT, YOU KNOW, WE MAY OR MAY NOT WANNA DO THAT.

HAS THERE EVER BEEN A, A, UM, ANOTHER TIME WHERE WE'RE CONTEMPLATING MAKING A DECISION ON SOMETHING THAT IS IN DELIBERATION WITH, YOU KNOW, WITH COUNSEL THAT'S NOT YET APPROVED, BUT MAY LIKELY BE APPROVED? WOW.

UH, COMMISSIONER CASTILLO, YOU BRING UP A VERY INTERESTING QUESTION.

AND I COULD SAY FROM MY SEVEN YEARS IN THE NINETIES AND FOR

[01:45:01]

NO, , THIS IS, THIS IS THE ONLY TIME I'VE EVER HEARD OF IT.

UH, STAFF, I DON'T KNOW.

IS THERE ANY, ANY EXAMPLE YOU CAN THINK OF WHERE SOME OF OUR ACTIONS THAT MIGHT HAVE IMPLICATION FROM A PENDING CODE, UH, WOULD, WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO CONSIDER? NO, I THINK THIS IS A VERY UNIQUE TIMING SITUATION.

UH, OKAY.

MR. MS. QUINTERA IS SAYING THIS IS A VERY UNIQUE ASPECT THAT'S, UH, NOT HAPPENED BEFORE AS FAR AS WE KNOW.

GOOD QUESTION.

UH, MAY, MAY I SAY ONE MORE THING OUTSIDE OF MY HOUSE? UM, I, I, I WOULD LIKE TO, I HOPE THIS IS, I HOPE YOU CAN CHAMPION THESE TYPES OF FENCES ON OTHER PROPERTIES LIKE MINE ALSO.

I THINK IT'S, I THINK IT'S, UH, THE RIGHT THING TO DO FOR THE CITYWIDE.

SO IF YOU'RE, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PRECEDENT, MAYBE THERE'S A ROLE FOR THE, THE COMMISSION TO, YOU KNOW, KIND OF SAY WHAT IS APPROPRIATE AND, AND, YOU KNOW, SURVEY THE COMMUNITY.

DOES THE COMMUNITY REALLY THINK HISTORIC HOUSES? IT SHOULD HAVE MODERN FLAT THOUGHT.

FRANCIS, THANK YOU.

UH, YES, COMMISSIONER COOK.

UH, I'LL NOTE AFTER FURTHER DISCUSSION, I'M PREPARED TO WITHDRAW MY MOTION AND APPROVE THE DESIGN AS PRESENTED.

UM, NOT SURE THE BEST WAY TO GO ABOUT DOING THAT.

I, I UNDERSTOOD THAT THE RESOLUTION HAD SOME BINDING EFFECT AT THIS POINT, UH, THAT WE SHOULD BE CONSIDERING.

IF, IF IT'S NOT IN EFFECT, OBVIOUSLY WE CAN'T ENFORCE ORDINANCE THAT DOESN'T EXIST YET.

UH, AND THEN IT BECOMES AN ISSUE OF APPROPRIATENESS.

I FIND IT INTERESTING THAT WE'RE BEING ASKED TO APPROVE THIS NOW BECAUSE THIS IS BEING PERCEIVED AS SAFER THAN A FLAT TOP FENCE BECAUSE OF THE LIABILITY, WHICH IS A WHOLE OTHER DISCUSSION TO BE HAD DURING THAT RESOLUTION.

AND WE WOULDN'T HAVING BE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION AT ALL IF OUR RECOMMENDATION THAT THERE BE AN EXCEPTION FOR THE VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF HISTORIC PROPERTIES WERE ALLOWED FOR IN THIS ORDINANCE.

UM, BUT I THINK THE EASIEST SOLUTION FOR US RIGHT NOW UNTIL THE NEXT ONE COMES ALONG AFTER THE RESOLUTION IS ADOPTED, IS TO APPROVE AS, AS DESIGNED, UH, WHICH SEEMS TO BE THE APPROPRIATE HEIGHT FOR CODE.

UM, AND, UM, STAFF DOESN'T HAVE AN OBJECTION TO THE HEIGHT.

FROM A HISTORIC POINT OF VIEW, WE'VE APPROVED MUCH HIGHER FENCES THAN THIS IN FRONT OF LANDMARKS FOR SECURITY REASONS.

UH, AND THE RESOLUTION IS NOT STANDING, SO WE CAN'T REALLY ENFORCE IT AS ORDINANCE.

SO I, UM, WOULD LIKE TO WITHDRAW MY MOTION AND, UH, AM OPEN TO AN OPPOSING MOTION.

UH, WELL IF, IF THAT'S WITHDRAWN, HOW ABOUT THE SECONDER OF THE MOTION? WILL YOU, WILL YOU ALLOW THAT TO, UH, ALSO BE WITHDRAWN OR WOULD YOU LIKE TO MAKE A DIFFERENT MOTION? I WOULD NOT MAKE MOTION.

WELL IF THE MA YOU SECONDED A MOTION, WHICH NOW THE MOVER WANTS TO WITHDRAW MM-HMM.

, UH, IN AN IDEAL WORLD, WE WOULD ASK IF THAT WAS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU SINCE YOU SECONDED IT.

AND IF I WANTED TO KEEP IT, THEN YOU'LL PROBABLY BECOME THE MAKER OF THE MOTION AND THEN YOU'RE LOOKING FOR A SECOND AND THEN YOU'RE LOOKING FOR SOMEBODY ELSE TO SECOND IT.

SO YOU, YOU, YOU'RE BASICALLY AS THE SECONDER OF THE MOTION, YOU WOULD STILL LIKE TO HAVE THAT POSTPONED REFERRED TO THE ARCHITECTURE REVIEW COMMITTEE AND HAVE FURTHER CONVERSATION IN LIGHT OF THE OTHER THINGS WE DISCUSSED? YES.

I THINK IT WOULD BENEFIT FROM, FROM DISCUSSION THERE.

A R C I THINK THE TIMING IS UNFORTUNATE, LIKE, LIKE WE SAID, CUZ WE'RE IN THAT MIDDLE OF, YOU KNOW, CITY COUNCIL'S GONNA SEE IT AT THE END OF THE MONTH AND THEN ARC MEETING CHANGES AND NOW WE'RE HAVING TWO DIFFERENT CONVERSATIONS, BUT I STILL THINK THAT'S WHAT'S BEST.

SO, SO COMMISSIONER RUBIO, YOU'RE MAKING A MOTION TO POSTPONE UNTIL THE AUGUST MEETING? YES.

WITH THE REFERRAL TO THE ARC MEETING.

LET'S SEE IF THERE IS NOW A SECOND TO YOUR MOTION COMMISSIONERS.

OKAY, I DON'T HEAR A SECOND.

SO THAT MOTION WILL NOW DIE.

WE NEED TO HAVE A SECOND FOR IT TO BE, UH, TAKEN OUT BY THE COMMISSION.

SO I WILL ENTERTAIN A DIFFERENT MOTION.

I MOVE TO APPROVE THE OFFENSE AS, UH, PRESENTED TODAY.

SECOND.

OPTION, UM, THEN MAYBE THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE A COMPROMISE ON THAT FRONT.

AND, UH, COMMISSIONER FEATHERSTON, WOULD YOU LIKE TO DISCUSS YOUR MOTION? AGAIN, I'M SENSITIVE TO THE SAFETY CONCERNS AND I THINK THAT, UM, IT'S, WE'RE IN A, YEAH, WE'RE IN AN AWKWARD SPOT.

I, I THINK THAT, UM, IT'S, IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT WE, WE SAY DON'T, DON'T DO FALSE HISTORICISM, BUT IF YOU'RE GOING TO THEN EXCLUDE THE BEST

[01:50:01]

I ALSO FEEL THAT A FENCE IS PROBABLY THE, THE THING THAT IS MOST CAPABLE OF THEN BEING REMOVED OR MODIFIED WITHOUT AFFECTING THE ORIGINAL HISTORIC BUILDING OF ANYTHING THAT YOU WOULD PUT ON A, ON A PROPERTY THAT WOULD BE SEMI-PERMANENT FENCE WOULD BE THE LEAST INVASIVE TO THE, THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE, THE HOUSE ITSELF.

SO, OKAY.

COMMISSIONER, I, I, I DEFINITELY THINK THAT THE FENCE IS IN KEEP, SORRY.

I DEFINITELY THINK THAT THE FENCE IS IN KEEPING WITH THE PERIOD OF SIGNIFICANCE AND THAT'S KINDA WELL DOCUMENTED BY THE, THE ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNERS.

AND I THINK THAT AS, AS COMMISSIONER COOK HAD POINTED OUT, THERE SHOULD BE AN HISTORIC EXEMPTION IN THAT ORDINANCE.

AND I, I THINK THAT IS A MESSAGE THAT WE'RE EXPRESSING FROM THIS DIA TO COUNCIL.

UM, AND I, I THINK I CAN PIGGYBACK ON THAT.

HAVING SENT THROUGH THE PRESENTATION, I ABSOLUTELY UNDERSTAND THE CONCERN ABOUT SAFETY FOR THE SHARP EDGE FENCES, UH, THE DAMAGE THEY CAN DO.

BUT I THINK THAT WE HAVE A DIFFERENT SITUATION WITH FENCES THAT HAVE BEEN HERE FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

MANY OF THEM HAVE DECORATIVE ELEMENTS.

THEY ARE BROAD IN THEIR PROFILES, UH, AND THOUGH THEY ARE, AS THE APPLICANT HAS POINTED OUT A DETERRENT FOR CLIMBING, UH, THEY REALLY AREN'T POSING A MASSIVE SAFETY HAZARD.

IF THEY WERE, WE WOULD WIND UP WITH A, A BUNCH OF DON'T CLIMB AND, YOU KNOW, YOUR OWN RISK SIGNS ALL OVER THE STATE CAPITOL GROUNDS, UH, RIGHT.

BUT I DON'T KNOW OF ANYBODY WHO'S, WHO'S, UH, HAD PROBLEMS WITH THAT.

AND IT'S BEEN, YOU KNOW, A HUNDRED YEARS, THESE FENCES HAVE BEEN AROUND A LONG TIME AND I THINK PEOPLE KNOW HOW TO HANDLE THEM.

UM, BUT I, AGAIN, I THINK WE'RE, WE'RE ASKING THAT THAT BE A DISTINCTION, IDEALLY THAT WOULD BE BROUGHT INTO THE CODE AND THAT EXEMPTION PERHAPS BE RE-LOOKED AT BECAUSE THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE SAME TYPE OF ISSUE AS THE DANGER THAT'S POSED BY A MORE MODERN SPIKE TYPE OF OFFENSE, WHICH HAS A DIFFERENT INTENT AND A DIFFERENT PURPOSE.

CORRECT.

SO, ALRIGHT, SO I, SO I CAN LIVE WITH THAT AS WELL.

UM, ANY OTHER CONVERSATIONS COM COMMISSIONERS? ANYBODY ELSE WANT TO WEIGH IN ON THE MOTION? ALL RIGHT, I'LL CALL THE QUESTION.

UH, WE HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE APPLICATION AS PRESENTED.

UH, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR INDICATE BY, UH, RAISING YOUR HAND.

1, 2, 3, 4 HERE ON THE DIOCESE.

AND HOW MANY THERE? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, UH, FROM THE VIRTUAL.

AND THOSE OPPOSED? AND WE HAVE COMMISSIONER RUBIO OPPOSED.

UH, THE MOTION PASSES AND, UH, I THINK IT WAS A GOOD CONVERSATION AND IF STAFF WOULD ALSO PERHAPS BE ABLE TO DISTILL SOME OF OUR CONCERN ABOUT THE REMOVAL OF THE HISTORIC EXEMPTION EXEMPTION, WE WOULD APPRECIATE IT.

UM, I'VE JUST SPOKEN TO OUR, UH, LEGAL STAFF AND THE AGENDA FOR THAT COUNCIL MEETING WILL BE POSTED ON FRIDAY.

UM, SO STAY TUNED.

UM, AND, UH, PLEASE, UM, REACH OUT IF, UH, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS.

GREAT.

UH, WE ARE PLOWING THROUGH THE AGENDA.

WE'VE GOT THE POSTPONEMENTS THE CONSENT ITEM, AND THAT NOW BRINGS US UP TO ITEM 17, THIS CHAIR.

SHOULD I MOVE TO TAKE ITEM 17 AND 18 CONCURRENTLY? UH, I THINK THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE.

UH, WE CAN TAKE, UH, STAFF, WERE YOU PREPARED TO PRESENT ON BOTH ITEMS SIMULTANEOUSLY? I BELIEVE WE HAVE SEPARATE STAFF REPORTS FOR EACH AND THE SPEAKERS WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON EACH ITEM INDIVIDUALLY.

I APOLOGIZE FOR INTERRUPTING.

IT IS POSSIBLE WE CAN TAKE ACTION ON THEM TOGETHER SO THAT, THAT WE CAN HOLD ONTO THAT.

YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO SUGGEST.

SO LET'S TAKE UP ITEM NUMBER

[17. DA-2023-075240 – 606 E. 3rd St. – Discussion]

17 THEN.

AND THAT IS 6 0 6 EAST THIRD STREET AND, UH, MS. GUTIERREZ.

MADE BETWEEN NINETEEN HUNDRED AND NINETEEN THIRTY FIVE.

6 0 6 EAST THIRD STREET, UH, THE FIRST OF TWO PROPERTIES PROPOSED FOR RELOCATION, UM, TO OUTSIDE THE CITY LIMITS.

THIS IS A 19TH CENTURY BUILDING CONSTRUCTED BETWEEN 1880 AND 1892.

UM, IT'S A ONE AND A HALF STORY RECTANGULAR PLAN.

MANOR ROOF FRAME HOUSE WITH CUMBERLAND STYLE DOUBLE FRONT DOORS AND SINGLE TWO OVER TWO WINDOWS ON THE GROUND FLOOR, PARTIAL WIDTH, INDEPENDENT PORCH ON TURNED WOOD POST AND WITH A SPINDLE WORK FREEZE.

UH, IT HAS SINGLE IMPAIRED ONE OVER ONE WINDOWS AND HIP ROOF DORMERS PROJECTING FROM THAT MANSOR ROOF.

THE HOUSE APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN ORIGINALLY ONE STORY WITH A HIP ROOF.

THE SECOND STORY, MANSOR ROOF EDITION WAS

[01:55:01]

THIS HOUSE IS BELIEVED TO HAVE BEEN BUILT AROUND 1892 AS A SIMPLE ONE STORY FRAME HOUSE WITH NO FRONT PORCH, UM, AS DEPICTED IN THE SANDBORN MAPS OF 1894 AND 1900.

AT SOME POINT BETWEEN NINETEEN HUNDRED AND NINETEEN THIRTY FIVE, THE HOUSE WAS ENLARGED TO ITS CURRENT TWO STORIES AND A FRONT PORCH ADDED.

IT IS LIKELY THAT THIS TRANSFORMATION OCCURRED CLOSER TO 1900 RATHER THAN LATER.

AS THE SECOND STORY IS A MAN THROUGH ROOF EDITION AND THE FRONT PORCH HAS A SPINDLE FREEZE.

BOTH OF THESE DESIGN DETAILS WERE POPULAR AT THE TURN OF THE 20TH CENTURY.

THE HOUSE APPEARS TO HAVE FIRST BEEN OCCUPIED BY MRS. LOUISA HOUSTON, THE WIDOW OF A PHYSICIAN, AND CONFEDERATE ARMY SURGEON.

MRS. HOUSTON WAS BORN LOUISA DRYDEN IN VIRGINIA IN 1825 AND MARRIED JAMES HOUSTON IN CALLAWAY COUNTY, MISSOURI IN 1841.

ACCORDING TO AN AFFIDAVIT SHE FILED FOR A PENSION CLAIM ON HER HUSBAND'S MILITARY SERVICE.

SHE HAD LIVED IN TRAVIS COUNTY SINCE 1875.

SHE AND HER HUSBAND LIVED AT WHAT IS NOW EAST FIRST AND WATER STREET BEFORE HE DIED IN 1878, AND SHE THEN MOVED TO THE EAST SIDE OF RED RIVER BETWEEN SECOND AND THIRD UNTIL THE EARLY 1890S.

WHETHER THE HOUSE THAT STANDS NOW IS EXISTING IN THE 1890S, OR WHETHER MRS. HOUSTON BUILT IT IS UNCLEAR.

HOWEVER, IT DOES SEEM CLEAR THAT AROUND AFTER 1892, MRS. HOUSTON WAS LIVING AT THIS ADDRESS ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THIRD STREET.

SHE LIVED HERE UNTIL HER DEATH IN 1901.

TOWARD THE END OF HER LIFE, SHE SHARED THE HOUSE WITH HER DAUGHTER, ALLIE HOUSTON TURNER.

AND AFTER HOUSTON'S DEATH IN 1901, THE HOUSE WAS OCCUPIED BY HER DAUGHTERS, ALLIE HOUSTON TURNER AND LIZZIE STRICKLAND, WHO ARE BOTH WIDOWS.

ALLIE TURNER DIED IN 1914 AND HER DAUGHTER, MADDIE TURNER, WHO HAD BEEN A DRESS MAKER, MOVED IN WITH HER AUNT LIZZIE.

THESE TWO WOMEN LIVED TOGETHER IN THE HOUSE UNTIL LIZZIE STRICKLAND'S DEATH IN EIGHT, IN 1936.

AND AFTER THAT, MADDIE TURNER LIVED HERE UNTIL HER DEATH IN 1952, AT WHICH TIME THE HOUSE BECAME A RENTAL PROPERTY, UH, AND THEN COMMERCIAL PROPERTY IN THE 1980S AS AN ANTIQUE SHOP, THE 2010 WALLER CREEK SURVEY LIST, THIS PROPERTY AS ELIGIBLE FOR NATIONAL REGISTER.

LISTING PROPERTIES MUST MEET TWO CRITERIA FOR LANDMARK DESIGNATION, UM, TO RECEIVE CITY OF AUSTIN HISTORIC ZONING STAFF HAS EVALUATED THE PROPERTY AND DETERMINED THAT IT MAY MEET TWO CRITERIA.

UM, THE BUILDING IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF A VERNACULAR DWELLING WITH SECOND EMPIRE INFLUENCES, WHICH IS RARE IN AUSTIN.

UM, WHILE THE PROPERTY DOES NOT APPEAR TO HAVE SPECIFIC SIGNIFICANT HISTORICAL ASSOCIATIONS, UM, IT MAY BE USEFUL TO CONSIDER THAT IT PROVIDES INSIGHT INTO THE CHANGING PATTERNS OF AUSTIN'S HOUSING HISTORY.

AND AS MOST OF YOU KNOW, THIS, UH, PROPERTY HAS COME BEFORE US SEVERAL TIMES.

UM, BACK IN 2015 AND 2016, A DEMOLITION PERMIT APPLICATION FOR 6 0 6 AND 6 0 8 WAS FILED, UM, THEN WITHDRAWN AND REPLACED WITH AN APPLICATION TO RELOCATE THESE HOUSES ACROSS THE STREET, UM, WHICH WAS RECOMMENDED BY STAFF AS WELL.

UM, THE HISTORIC LANDMARK COMMISSION MOVED TO RELEASE THE PERMIT FOR LOCATION, UM, UPON THE CONDITIONS THAT, UM, AN ARCHEOLOGICAL INVESTIGATION MET, THAT MET STATE STANDARDS TOOK PLACE, UM, THAT THE BUILDINGS WERE RESTORED AND THAT THEY WERE ORIENTED TOWARD THIRD STREET, UM, AND THEN PROTECTED WITH A COVENANT OR ZONED HISTORIC.

UM, BACK IN 2019, UM, A PERMIT FOR RELOCATION OF BOTH OF THOSE HOUSES THAT MET THE 2016 CRITERIA WAS APPROVED.

UM, AND THEN EARLIER LAST YEAR, A PERMIT FOR DEMOLITION WAS FILED AND WITHDRAWN IN FAVOR OF, OF A PROPOSAL TO RELOCATE THE HOUSE INTO THE ROBERTSON STEWART AND MAYOR HISTORIC DISTRICT.

UH, WHILE RELOCATION ACROSS THE STREET WOULD'VE HELPED RETAIN THE ORIGINAL NEIGHBORHOOD CONTEXT OF THESE STRUCTURES, UM, STAFF DID NOT FIND SPECIFIC HISTORICAL FIGURES ASSOCIATED WITH THE STRUCTURE, UM, AND RECOMMENDED, UH, TO INITIATE HISTORIC ZONING AT THAT TIME.

UM, LET'S SEE.

UH, THE HISTORIC LANDMARK COMMISSION MOVED TO POSTPONE THE PUBLIC HEARING TO ALLOW THE APPLICANT TO PURSUE RELOCATION OPTIONS THAT DID NOT REMOVE THE HOUSE FROM ITS HISTORIC CONTEXT OR AT AN ANACHRONISTIC BUILDING TO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.

UM, AND UNTIL THEN, THERE HAS BEEN NO ACTION UNTIL TODAY.

UM, SO THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS TO CONSIDER WHETHER THE BUILDING MEETS THE CRITERIA FOR DESIGNATION.

IF SO, INITIATE HISTORIC ZONING.

HOWEVER, SHOULD THE COMMISSION CHOOSE TO RELEASE THE RELOCATION PERMIT, UH, STAFF RECOMMENDS COMPLETION OF AN ARCHEOLOGICAL INVESTIGATION THAT MEETS STATE STANDARDS PER THE 2016 COMMISSION MOTION, AS WELL AS COMPLETION OF A CITY OF AUSTIN DOCUMENTATION PACKAGE WITH MEASURED DRAWINGS FOLLOWING THE AMERICAN HISTORIC AMERICAN BUILDING SURVEY STANDARDS.

THANK YOU MS. CONTRERAS.

ONE QUICK QUESTION, UH, JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, WITH ALL OF THE HISTORY ON THIS CASE, THIS, HOWEVER, IS A NEW APPLICATION AND THIS IS THE FIRST TIME WE ARE ACTUALLY HEARING IT, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT.

THIS IS A BRAND NEW APPLICATION AND SOME OF THE NEWER COMMISSIONERS, THE, UH, CLOCK TICKS WHEN A CASE IS STARTED, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE ALLOWED TO DO ARE TIMED OUT.

SO IT'S IMPORTANT KNOWING WHAT OUR, PARTICULARLY IF WE'RE GOING TO DO SOME INVESTIGATION TO KNOW WHAT OUR, UH, TIMELINE IS.

SO THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF THE CASE.

THIS IS THE FIRST TIME WE'VE HEARD IT? THAT'S CORRECT.

[02:00:02]

JUST TO CLARIFY THAT TIMELINE IS 75 DAYS STARTING TODAY.

THANK YOU, MS. ALLEN.

SO, SO CAN WE ASK QUESTIONS THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH THIS PRINT UP? WE TIE INTO CERTAIN THINGS THAT HAPPEN IN THEIR APPLICATIONS OR WE NOT ANY, ANYTHING HAVING TO DO WITH THE STAFF'S PRESENTATION? ABSOLUTELY.

UH, PLEASE IF THERE'S A QUESTION THAT'S APPROPRIATE, SO IF IT'S IN, IF IT'S IN THE, THE DOCUMENT, WE CAN ADDRESS IT, UH, OR, OR, UH, ADD TO OR EXPAND ON THAT, UH, AS AS YOU WISH, COMMISSIONER.

GOOD EVENING, UH, DISTINGUISHED LANDMARK COMMISSION.

UH, IF THERE ARE NO QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME, HOWEVER, UH, THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING AND WE'LL CALL UPON THE APPLICANT FOR THEIR PRESENTATION.

INTRODUCE YOURSELF FIRST, SO YOU'LL ONLY HAVE TWO MINUTES ONCE YOU START.

WOULD YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF? WELCOME.

MY NAME IS HERVE FRANKS.

I'M A MASTER.

I'M THE FIRST MASTER, UH, AFRICAN AMERICAN MASTER GARDENER IN AUSTIN, TEXAS.

I'M COMMUNITY GARDEN COORDINATOR FOR THE CARVER MUSEUM HERE IN AUSTIN, TEXAS.

UH, THIS HOUSE IS A HOUSE THAT I FELL IN LOVE WITH 30 YEARS AGO.

UM, I REALLY ABSOLUTELY LOVE HISTORIC HOUSES.

I AM REPRESENTING A FRIEDMAN'S COLONY, WHICH IS 30 MINUTES OUTSIDE OF AUSTIN CALLED ST.

JOHN COLONY.

I AM ONE OF THE ORIGINAL, MY FAMILY CAME FROM THE ORIGINAL SIX FAMILIES THAT CAME TO THE AREA IN 1870S.

UH, THE REASON THAT I WANT TO PURCHASE THIS HOUSE, I'VE LOVED IT FOR OVER 30 YEARS, AND MY GOAL IS TO MOVE IT TO MY GRANDFATHER'S HISTORIC FRIEDMAN'S FARM THAT I HAVE ESTO ESTABLISHED AS RENAISSANCE RANCH.

I TEACH HORTICULTURAL CLASSES FOR CHILDREN AND ADULTS FOR THE CITY OF AUSTIN.

UH, I'M MAKING A HISTORIC FARM THERE WHERE I CAN BRING, UH, CHILDREN AND ADULTS TO LEARN, UH, WHAT A HISTORIC WORKING FARM IS, SIMILAR TO WHAT THEY DO WITH PIONEER FARM, BUT FOR AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY TO HAVE A HISTORIC BUILDING IN THE PAST TWO YEARS.

UM, OUR COMMUNITY, ST.

JOHN COLONY, UH, MY MOTHER WHO JUST PASSED AWAY LAST DECEMBER, WE, UH, SAVED, UH, THE ORIGINAL FREEMAN'S COLONY SCHOOL THAT WAS ESTABLISHED IN THE 1870S.

AND MY MOTHER AND MY DAUGHTER, UH, AND OUR ST.

JOHN COMMUNITY WROTE GRANTS.

WE REBUILT THE ORIGINAL SLAVE SCHOOL.

IT IS NOW, UH, ST.

JOHN'S, UM, MUSEUM TELLING THE HISTORY OF OUR COMMUNITY.

WE TOOK THE ORIGINAL CHURCH FROM 1870S AND WE MADE IT INTO A COMMUNITY CENTER.

AND I WANT TO USE THIS HOUSE AS MY HOME AND MY TEACHING FACILITY SO THAT I CAN CONTINUE TO TEACH HORTICULTURAL FOR ADULTS AND KIDS AS I DO FOR THE CITY OF AUSTIN PRESENTLY.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION.

DID YOU STILL WANNA SHOW THE VIDEO, MA'AM? YES.

CAN I PLEASE SHOW A VIDEO ABOUT MY WORK IN AUSTIN COMMUNITY? THANK YOU SO MUCH.

SUPPORT COMES FROM UT'S LADY BIRD JOHNSON WILDFLOWER CENTER FEATURING MILES OF TRAILS AND NEARLY 900 NATIVE PLANT SPECIES.

MORE ABOUT THE OFFICIAL BOTANIC GARDEN OF TEXAS@WILDFLOWER.ORG.

AH, WOW.

MY NAME IS HERVE FRANKS AND I'M A GARDENING SPECIALIST HERE AT THE BEAUTIFUL CARVER MUSEUM.

THE CARVER MUSEUM IS DEDICATED TO, UH, TEACHING THE BEAUTIFUL, UH, HISTORY OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN CULTURE IN AUSTIN, TEXAS.

WE HAVE A GENEALOGY CENTER HERE, UH, AND, UH, PEOPLE CAN COME AND STUDY THEIR THEIR FAMILY HISTORY.

ONE OF THE PROGRAMS THAT WE'VE STARTED HERE AT CARVER IS WE HAVE TAKEN OUR DECOMMISSIONED SWIMMING POOL THAT HAS BEEN VACANT FOR THE PAST 15 YEARS.

AND, UH, WE BUILT BEAUTIFUL GARDEN BEDS AND IT'S GOING TO BE AN AMPHITHEATER AND A PLACE TO ENJOY MUSIC, POETRY, UH, EXERCISE CLASSES IN A GARDENING ENVIRONMENT.

AND, UH, WE WANT IT TO BE A PLACE WHERE WE CAN BRING THE PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITY, THEY CAN WALK AROUND THE MUSEUM, BUT ALSO BE ABLE TO EXPERIENCE HORTICULTURE, SHOW KIDS WHERE FOOD COMES FROM,

[02:05:01]

AND THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN GROW THINGS THAT THEY, THEIR PARENTS WOULD'VE BEEN BUYING AT THE GROCERY STORE.

AND IT'S GONNA TASTE EVEN BETTER THAN THE GROCERY STORE, I THINK.

AND I WANT TO SHOW KIDS THAT IF YOU CAN TAKE A TINY SEED AND TRY, HEY, STOP HIRING STRANGERS TO SPRAY AND TURN IT INTO A GIANT SUNFLOWER, THAT IS TRULY MAGIC.

I USED TO GARDEN WITH MY GRANDPARENTS WHO WERE FARMERS BACK IN THE FIFTIES AND SIXTIES IN, UH, CALDWELL COUNTY.

AND MY GRANDFATHER, MY GRANDMOTHER, WERE DOING FARM TO TABLE FROM THE SEVENTIES INTO THE EIGHTIES.

MY GRANDMOTHER HAD A CAFE ON, UH, AIRPORT BOULEVARD CALLED RUBY'S KITCHEN.

AND MY GRANDFATHER AND HER HAD A FARM, WHICH THEY STILL DO WITH, THEY'RE DECEASED NOW, BUT, UH, THEY HAD A FARM IN DALE, TEXAS, ST.

JOHN COLONY, WHICH IS AN ORIGINAL COLONY, AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN FRIEDMAN'S COLONY THAT WAS ESTABLISHED IN 1872.

AND, UM, THAT'S WHERE I GREW UP IN THAT COMMUNITY.

AND, UM, I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT AS A CHILD IT WOULD HAVE SUCH AN IMPACT ON ME, AND THAT AS AN ADULT, I BE, BECAME A MASTER GARDENER BECAUSE I WANTED TO CONTINUE TO TEACH GARDENING.

AND, UH, THAT'S WHAT I DO HERE AT CARVER.

I WANT TO TEACH KIDS HOW TO TAKE SEEDS, PLANT THEM, AND BE ABLE TO FEED THEMSELVES AND THEIR COMMUNITY I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS, UH, SIX OR SEVEN YEARS OLD, AND I WAS, UH, GOING TO KINDERGARTEN HERE, AND WE TOOK A WALK TO, UM, OKAY.

OUR GENEALOGY CENTER, WHICH WAS THE ORIGINAL CARVER, YOU KNOW, IS THERE, ARE WE CLOSE TO THE END? YES.

I, I THINK I APPRECIATE THE, THE SPIRIT OF THE FILM AND IT CERTAINLY BRINGS HOME A VERY IMPORTANT POINT.

SO, UH, MS. FRANKS, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR SHARING THAT AS WELL.

SO, AS I UNDERSTAND YOU WOULD BE THE, UH, THE ONE MOVING AND ULTIMATELY RECEIVING THE HOUSE, UH, WITH THIS APPLICATION.

IS THAT CORRECT? YES, SIR.

IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO ME.

I, OH, GO AHEAD AND COME TO THE MICROPHONE.

I, I'VE LOVED THIS HOUSE FOR MANY YEARS.

I USED TO TAKE VOICE LESSONS FROM MARCY LYNN.

I'M VERY PROMINENT VOICE TEACHER, AND I USED TO PASS BY THE CONVENTION CENTER 30 YEARS AGO, AND I'VE BEEN LOVING THIS HOUSE FOR MANY, MANY YEARS WHEN I SAW IT ON CRAIGSLIST.

WELL, THANK YOU.

HISTORIC VINTAGE SOMETIMES.

ANY, ANY QUESTIONS OF MS. FRANKS? OKAY.

WE HAVE THE OWNER, THE CURRENT OWNER OF THE HOUSE HERE IS, ARE YOU PREPARED TO ADD TO THE PRESENTATION? HE'S PART OF THE APPLICANT TEAM? YEAH, GO AHEAD.

HEY, PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF, THE MICROPHONE.

I'M WARREN WELLBORN.

I'M A STRUCTURED SOLUTION.

I DEAL IN, UH, VINTAGE AND HISTORIC HOUSES TO BE MOVED.

I HAVE FOR 33 YEARS.

THAT'S ALL I DO.

AND, UH, I, UH, MY, PRIMARILY MY BUSINESS IS THE BUYING AND SELLING OF HISTORIC HOUSES TO BE MOVED, OR HOUSES TO BE MOVED, PERIOD.

STRUCTURES TO BE MOVED.

GO AHEAD.

SO SOMETIMES THESE, HOW THESE SITUATIONS FIND ME, AND THEY'RE TROUBLED, UH, THE HOUSES ARE, ARE TROUBLED.

UH, THEY'VE BEEN IN A TIED UP OR IN A CONFLICT FOR A WHILE, AND THEY'VE FOUND ME TO, TO, TO RESOLVE THAT, IF THAT'S GONNA BE HOUSE MOVING OR WHAT.

BUT I, I PURSUED THESE HOUSES.

I WANTED THEM, THE HOUSE IS VERY SPECIAL, THE SECOND EMPIRE HOUSE, AND IT TURNED OUT TO BE KIND OF ALREADY HAVING, TRYING OF TROUBLE TANGLED UP, UH, TRYING TO GET PERMITTED.

AND THE WAY I WOULD LOOK TO SAY THIS IS THAT THE WAY THIS ONE CAME, UH, TO ME, OR I FOUND THIS ONE IS, IS IT HAS BEEN PURSUED AS, AS THIS HISTORIC HOUSE AS OPPOSED TO, UM, YOU KNOW, UM, WHAT I WOULD CALL, YOU KNOW, UH, ATTACHED TO, TO PERMIT OR ADHERED TO DEVELOPMENT.

YOU KNOW, IT, IT, IT HAD BEEN APPROACHED AS THE, AS RESOLVING THE HOUSE SITUATION.

AND THE LAST ROUND THAT THE, THAT THE OWNER, THIS IS, UM, THIS IS A 660 MILLION DEVELOPMENT COMING IN DOWN THERE ON THE FREEWAY.

I'M NOT GONNA PRESUME TO, TO KNOW A LOT ABOUT IT, AND I'M NOT GONNA TELL YOU THE THINGS THAT I DO NOT KNOW, BUT HOW THIS CAME TO ME IS WHAT I'M SAYING.

UM, AND SO THEY'RE READY, YOU KNOW, TO GO WITH THEIR PROJECT.

AND, AND SO THE LAST ROUND WAS HE WAS GOING TO KEEP IT THERE, UH, ON THE CONVENTION CENTER PROPERTY.

AND THE CONVENTION CENTERS HAS, HAS SAID, NO, THANK YOU.

AND, AND, AND

[02:10:01]

I THINK HE TOOK THAT ONE PRETTY HARD.

UM, HE KIND OF FELT LIKE THE CITY SENT HIM TO THE CITY.

HE FOUND OUT THE CONVENTION CENTER LEASED THE LAND FROM THE CITY.

SO HE FELT LIKE THE CITY SENT HIM TO THE CITY, AND THE CITY SAID, NO, THANK YOU.

SO THAT'S, THAT'S ABOUT THAT FOR ME TO, FOR ME TODAY, IS I'VE LOOKED AT HOUSES IN FAR EAST AUSTIN ALL THE WAY TO MEIS HOUSES BEING, I'M CALLED IN TO LOOK AT FIVE AT A TIME ON CITY BLOCKS THAT I MOVED HOUSES IN ON, UH, TO ME TO MOVE THEM OUT ON THAT, THAT, THAT I'VE MOVED THEM IN ON A FEW YEARS BEFORE.

IN OTHER WORDS, THE HOUSES ARE ALL GOING OUT OF AUSTIN.

SO, SO I'VE ALWAYS TRIED TO GET LANDMARK AND STAFF AND LIKE SAYS, THIS IS MY JOB.

, YOU KNOW, THE PARKS DEPARTMENT OR IS TO KEEP 'EM WHERE THEY'RE AT, BUT THEY GO OUT OF, OUT OF TOWN OR OUT OUTSIDE THE CITY OF AUSTIN.

AND FOR THIS TO GO TO A FREEDMAN COLONY, YEAH, THAT TIME TO WRAP ON A STATE DESIGNATED HISTORIC PLACE, I FELT LIKE I, UH, WOULD LIKE TO HAVE TOLD YOU I DID ALL THIS WORK, BUT I DIDN'T.

IT FELL INTO PLACE AND IT'S JUST SEEMS PERFECT THAT EVERYTHING IS SERVED.

WE APPRECIATE YOUR PRESENTATION.

UH, THE COMMISSIONERS MAY HAVE SOME QUESTIONS OF YOU, PLEASE, COMMISSIONER.

I'M PLEASE GO AHEAD.

COMMISSIONER LARGE.

ARE, ARE YOU THE OWNER OF BOTH PROPERTIES? I AM, UH, I AM MOVING THE HOUSES.

SO, SO YOU'RE NOT THE, NOT THE OWNER, THE OWNER OF THE DIRT.

THE LANDOWNER IS MANCHESTER FINANCIAL.

AND SO I'M ACQUIRING THE HOUSES FOR MANCHESTER, AND PART OF THAT IS THE PERMITTING UNDERSTOOD.

REAL COMMON FOR ME, A HOUSE TO BE MOVED AS A PERSONAL PROPERTY, NOT A PR REAL PROPERTY.

DOES THAT, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.

MEANING YOU OWN THE HOUSE, NOT THE DIRT.

WELL, YOU CORRECT.

PURCHASED THE HOUSE PROVIDED OF COURSE, THEN IT CAN BE MOVED, CORRECT.

AND I OWN YES, THAT'S TRUE.

I, I I I I CAN REPRESENT THE HOUSES, LET'S PUT IT THAT WAY.

SO, SO WITH, WITH, WELL, WITHOUT BORING YOU WITH, ANYWAY, THE DETAILS WITH THAT IS, IS I HAVE TO DO THE WHOLE, THE WHOLE THING WITH MANCHESTER ANSWERED, BUT HE'S SUPPORTIVE OF THIS.

MR. WELBURN, I THINK YOU'VE ANSWERED THE QUESTION.

SO ARE THERE ANY FOLLOW UP FROM COMMISSIONERS? NO.

ANYONE ELSE? OKAY.

PRESENTATION.

IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE HERE TO SPEAK TO THE MOTION? UH, I GUESS IT, DO WE HAVE ANYBODY ELSE FROM MANCHESTER FINANCIAL? MR. WELBORN, YOU REPRESENT THEM, I THINK IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IN THAT YOU ALSO REPRESENT, REPRESENT THE HOUSE.

DOUGLAS MANCHESTER WAS THE ORIGINAL APPLICANT.

UH, HE HAS ENLISTED THE HELP OF WARREN WELLBORN AND THEN LINDA SULLIVAN WITH CLEAN TAG PERMITS AS WELL, TO GET THIS PROCESS MOVING ALONG.

AND FOR THE NEW COMMISSIONERS, THE HISTORY THAT MS. GUTIERREZ WENT THROUGH IS, UH, AGONIZING ONE, BECAUSE WE WENT THROUGH GREAT LENGTHS IN PREVIOUS SESSIONS WITH THE PREVIOUS APPLICANT, THE ACTUAL OWNER, TO TRY TO FIND A SOLUTION, NOT JUST FOR THE INDIVIDUAL HOUSE, BUT BECAUSE THESE ARE TWO HOUSES TOGETHER AND THERE'S A LITTLE DISTRICT DOWN THERE, UH, HAD THINGS MOVED DIFFERENTLY AND HAD WE BEEN, UH, SUCCESSFUL, UH, WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO DO IS TO MAINTAIN THE HISTORY OF THAT RESIDENTIAL SECTION OF DOWNTOWN WITH THE REMOVAL OF THESE, BECAUSE THE OTHER HOUSE IS ALSO BEING APPLIED FOR, UH, THAT ASPECT OF THAT AREA IS GONNA BE ERASED, VIRTUALLY GONE.

SO I THINK THIS IS BIGGER THAN JUST A HOUSE MOVE.

AND I, I CAN'T FAULT ANYBODY IN TERMS OF THE EFFORTS OTHER THAN THEY WEREN'T SUCCESSFUL.

AND, UH, SO I, I THINK IT REMAINS UP TO US WHAT IS THE BEST FATE FOR THESE HOUSES.

BUT WE ARE BEING OFFERED ONE CHOICE TONIGHT, AND THAT IS THAT THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE A NEW LIFE, BUT THEY WILL NO LONGER BE IN THE DISTRICT CONTRIBUTING TO A DISTRICT OR DOWNTOWN, OR EVEN IN AUSTIN.

THEY WILL BE DOING SOMETHING ELSE IN A DIFFERENT AREA.

THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT THIS APPLICANT IS REQUESTING OF US.

SO, UH, APPLICANT IS RAISING HER HAND, AND, UH, YOU'VE MADE YOUR PRESENTATION, BUT MS. FRANKS, IF YOU HAVE ANOTHER COMMENT, I CAN ASK YOU A QUESTION.

YOU CAN COME TO THE MICROPHONE IF YOU'D LIKE TO ADDRESS MY QUESTION, WHICH IS, WHY ARE YOU RAISING YOUR HAND ? I MOVED TO AUSTIN THE DAY AFTER I WAS BORN ABOUT 60 YEARS AGO, AND I'VE SEEN

[02:15:01]

AUSTIN CHANGE SO MUCH.

I'VE SEEN MY COMMUNITY CHANGE SO MUCH.

I'VE SEEN SO MANY PEOPLE WHO WERE BORN AND RAISED IN AUSTIN HAVE TO LEAVE EAST AUSTIN AND AUSTIN BECAUSE THEY COULD NO LONGER AFFORD TO LIVE IN THIS, IN THIS AREA.

HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF FAMILIES.

AND I ASK THAT IF WE CAN BE REMOVED FOR THE COMMUNITY, CAN WE ALSO HAVE SOME SUPPORT IN KEEPING SOME OF THE WONDERFUL BUILDINGS? I HAVE A RICH HISTORY HERE IN AUSTIN.

MY FAMILY HAS HAD BUSINESSES UP AND DOWN 11TH STREET.

MY MOM HAD, WHERE FRANKLIN'S BARBECUE WAS HER HAMBURGER STAND WHEN I WAS IN THE SEVENTH GRADE.

MY GRANDMOTHER HAD, UM, A RESTAURANT ON AIRPORT FOR 20, 30 YEARS.

I HAD, UH, WHERE THE PHARMACY IS ON 11TH STREET FOR SEVEN YEARS.

I HAD A CAFE THERE CALLED COMMUNITY CAFE.

AND, UM, I JUST FEEL THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS AN EXTENSION OF AUSTIN, AND THIS IS EXTENDING, UH, A COMMUNITY THAT HAS BEEN RELOCATED TO HAVE AN ORIGINAL HISTORIC PROPERTY TO CONTINUE OUR LEGACY IN THIS AREA.

THIS IS MY HOME, THIS COMMUNITY, ALL OF AUSTIN.

AND, UH, WE ARE JUST EXPANDING IT, AND WE'RE EXPANDING PLACES WHERE PEOPLE CAN COME AND LEARN ABOUT THE RICH AFRICAN-AMERICAN HISTORY THAT IS NOT FOUND HERE AS MUCH AS IT HAS BEEN IN THE YEARS, AND WE ARE JUST GROWING.

SURE.

THANK, THANK YOU.

AND AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR THE WORK YOU'RE DOING.

UM, IT IS CERTAINLY IMPORTANT ASPECT OF WHAT WE'LL BE DISCUSSING, BUT I DO THINK IT, IT STARTS WITH, THIS IS A HOUSE THAT HAS, UH, A LONG HISTORY IN THIS PARTICULAR AREA.

WE'VE TRIED HARD TO DO WHAT WE CAN WITH IT.

UM, THIS IS THE OPTION WE'RE BEING PRESENTED TONIGHT.

UH, CHAIR.

HI, SETH.

MAY I MOVE TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING? SO MOVE SECOND, SECOND TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING, AND THEN WE CAN MOVE TO A MOTION.

OH, UH, YES, COMMISSIONER CASTILLO.

UH, THAT'S A SECOND.

UH, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF CLOSING THE PUBLIC HEARING INDICATE BY RAISING YOUR HAND.

THAT'S UNANIMOUS.

THE HEARING IS CLOSED.

WE'LL NOW ENTERTAIN MOTIONS.

I MOVE TO, UM, UH, I DON'T KNOW.

IT'S NOT REALLY LIKE A POSTPONEMENT, BUT WE, WE STILL HAVE NOT YET HEARD ABOUT, UH, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 18.

CORRECT.

AND I'D LIKE TO TAKE, I'D LIKE TO CONSIDER THE, WE HAVE A MOTION TO TABLE ACTION ON THIS ITEM UNTIL WE HEAR THE NEXT CASE TABLE.

THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE WORD I WAS LOOKING FOR.

SO MOVED.

UH, COMMISSIONER, UH, FEATHERSTON.

[18. DA-2023-075240 – 608 E. 3rd St. – Discussion ]

IS THERE A SECOND? OKAY.

SECOND BY COMMISSIONER MC PORTER.

UH, MOTION TO TABLE ACTION ON THIS UNTIL AFTER WE HEAR CASE, UH, 18.

UH, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION INDICATE BY RAISING YOUR HAND.

ALRIGHT, WE WILL HOLD ACTION UNTIL WE HAVE NOW HEARD.

CASE NUMBER 18 6 0 8 EAST THIRD STREET.

MS. GUTIERREZ.

THANK YOU COMMISSIONERS.

UH, EIGHT EAST THIRD STREET IS A PROPOSAL TO RELOCATE A CIRCA 1880 HOUSE TO BASTROP COUNTY.

UH, THIS IS A NATIONAL FOLK STYLE HALL AND PARLOR HOUSE WITH A REAR SHED EDITION.

IT'S A SINGLE STORY WITH A FULL WIDTH INDEPENDENT FRONT PORCH WITH A CROSS STICK RAILING DESIGN, AND A METAL ROOF.

IT HAS A SIDE GABLE ROOF AND WOOD EXTERIOR SHEATHING WITH A BALANCE SYMMETRICAL FRONT FACADE COMPOSED OF A SINGLE ENTRY WOODEN DOOR, UH, FLANKED BY FOUR OVER FOUR WINDOWS.

THE 2015 STAFF REPORT BY HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICER STEVE SADOWSKI, DESCRIBES THE HOME AS FOLLOWS.

IT DATES FROM AN EARLIER TIME THAN THE HOUSE AT 6 0 6 EAST THIRD, AND IT IS ALSO A MORE MODEST DWELLING.

THIS HOUSE APPEARS ON THE 1894 SANDBORN MAP, AS WELL AS THE 1900 MAP AS A SIMPLE BOX WITH A FULL WIDTH FRONT PORCH.

1935 AND 1961 ALSO SHOWED THAT ADDITIONS WERE MADE TO THE BACK OF THE HOUSE, BUT THE ORIGINAL LOOK AND FACADE OF THE HOUSE RETAINED THEIR HISTORIC APPEARANCE, UNLIKE THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR AT 6 0 6, WHICH WAS MAINTAINED BY THE SAME FAMILY FOR GENERATIONS AS THEIR FAMILY RESIDENCE.

THIS HOUSE HAS BEEN A RENTAL UNIT FOR THE MAJORITY OF ITS EXISTENCE.

ALTHOUGH STAFF BELIEVES THAT THE HOUSE STATES FROM THE 1880S BECAUSE OF ITS, BECAUSE OF ITS ARCHITECTURAL CHARACTERISTICS.

CITY DIRECTORY RESEARCH ONLY TAKES US BACK AS FAR AS 1903.

IT WAS RENTED BY A SERIES OF WORKING CLASS FAMILIES IN THE EARLY 19 HUNDREDS, INCLUDING A WAITER, A COOK, BARBERS, A CLERK AT A NEWS AND CIGAR PARLOR, AN ELECTRICIAN AND A BEER TRUCK DRIVER.

SEVERAL OF THE EARLY TENANTS WERE OF GERMAN HERITAGE, DOVETAILING WITH THE GERMAN FAMILY WHO OWNED THE STORE AND HOUSES AT THE CORNER OF FLORIDA AND RED RIVER STREET.

AT THE TURN OF THE 20TH CENTURY

[02:20:01]

IN THE MID 1950S, MABEL WALKER, UH, THE OWNER OF WALKER REST HOME NEXT DOOR, IT NOW DEMOLISHED HOUSES JUST TO THE EAST, LIVED HERE FOR A SHORT TIME, LIKE THE HOUSE NEXT DOOR.

IT WAS VACANT FOR A SHORT PERIOD IN THE EARLY 1980S, THEN BECAME COMMERCIAL PROPERTY, HOUSING AND INTERIOR DESIGN FIRM.

THE 2010 WALLER CREEK SURVEY ALSO LISTS THIS PROPERTY AS ELIGIBLE FOR NATIONAL REGISTER LISTING.

UM, AND AGAIN, STAFF HAS EVALUATED THIS PROPERTY AND DETERMINED THAT IT MAY MEET TWO CRITERIA.

UM, IT'S A GOOD EXAMPLE OF A HOLLAND POLLER HOUSE AND THE NATIONAL FOLK STYLE.

AND THE PROPERTY DOES NOT APPEAR TO HAVE SPECIFIC HISTORICAL ASSOCIATIONS, BUT IT DOES PROVIDE INSIGHT INTO THE CHANGING PATTERNS OF AUSTIN'S HOUSING HISTORY.

UM, THE, UH, PERMITTING HISTORY CAN BE FOUND IN YOUR BACKUP.

IT IS, UM, ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME AS 6 0 8, UM, EAST THIRD STREET.

UM, THE 2022 STAFF RECOMMEND STAFF RECOMMENDATION NOTED THAT, UH, THE 2019 RELOCATION ACROSS THE STREET WOULD'VE RETAINED THE STRUCTURE'S ORIGINAL CONTEXT.

UM, BUT STAFF DID NOT FIND SPECIFIC HISTORICAL FIGURES ASSOCIATED WITH THE STRUCTURE.

INSTEAD, RECOMMENDING INITIATION TO RECOGNIZE THE BUILDING AS A RARE, SURVIVING EXAMPLE OF MIDDLE TO LOWER INCOME HISTORIC HOUSING.

UM, THE COMMISSION THEN MOVED TO POSTPONE THE PUBLIC HEARING.

UM, AND TODAY, UH, THIS IS BEFORE US AGAIN.

SO THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION THIS TIME IS TO CONSIDER WHETHER THE BUILDING MEETS CRITERIA FOR DESIGNATION.

IF SO, INITIATE HISTORIC ZONING.

HOWEVER, SHOULD THE COMMISSION CHOOSE TO RELEASE THE RELOCATION PERMIT, REQUIRE COMPLETION OF AN ARCHEOLOGICAL INVESTIGATION THAT MEETS STATE STANDARDS PER THE 2016 COMMISSION MOTION, AS WELL AS COMPLETION OF A CITY OF AUSTIN DOCUMENTATION PACKAGE WITH MEASURED DRAWINGS FOLLOWING THE STANDARDS OF THE HISTORIC AMERICAN BUILDING SURVEY.

THANK YOU, MS. GUTIEREZ.

UH, I, I FIND IT IRONIC THAT YOU, HERE, WE HAVE AN EARLIER CASE TONIGHT WHERE, UH, ALL THESE THINGS THAT ARE SO NEW, THIS AIRBNB ROOM, WELL, THAT WAS PART OF A HISTORIC HOUSE.

WELL, THIS, YOU KNOW, THIS IS LIKE THE ORIGINAL TINY HOUSE.

SO WE, WE THINK ALL THIS IS BRAND NEW.

IT'S BEEN HERE, UH, AND WE'VE BEEN BENEFITING FROM IT FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

UH, THIS APPLICANT IS AVAILABLE TONIGHT, UH, TO SPEAK ON THE MOTION.

UH, MR. HORNE, PLEASE COME AND INTRODUCE YOURSELF.

I, UH, I'M VERY, INITIALLY I WANTED THIS HOUSE TO THESE TWO HOUSES TO STAY TOGETHER TO GO OUT TO THE FREEMAN COLONY AT, UH, ST.

JOHN'S.

BUT, UH, IT, IT OVERBURDENED THE DEAL.

AND, AND I HAVE SOMEBODY THAT, UH, THAT, UH, THAT DOES THESES, NOT COMMERCIALLY, BUT RED REDO COTTAGES LIVES IN THEM, AND MOVING THIS ONE TO HISTORIC SMITHVILLE, TEXAS.

AND, UM, WHEN IT CAME TO ME, IT WAS, I THOUGHT, AN EXCHANGE TO DEMOLISH THIS ONE FOR SAVING THE SECOND EMPIRE HOUSE.

SO I, I THOUGHT I'D DONE QUITE WELL.

UM, CAME TO ME AS A DEMOLITION ON, ON THIS, AND SO, AND I'M GLAD TO HEAR YOU CALL IT, UH, HALL AND PARLOR .

THAT'S GOOD.

IT'S WELL, MULTI-REGIONAL.

IS JUST A HALL AND A PARLOR.

HALL AND PARLOR.

HAR HALL AND PARLOR IS, YEAH, OR IS, IS THE, IS FOLK IS THE ONE WHO, UH, WILL BE DOING THE MOVE, UH, AND RESTORATION HERE.

WE HAD CORRESPONDENCE FROM HER.

I, I, I ASKED HER TO DO A PACKET FOR YOU AND I SENT IT.

DID YOU? YOU GOT IT.

THAT WASN'T OUR BACKUP.

CAN WE LET THESE GUYS IN ON IT? YEAH.

WE, THEY HAVE IT ON.

YEAH, WE DID.

IF SHE'S NOT HERE, THAT'S FINE.

SHE'S WONDERFUL.

AND SHE'S A PURIST, AND HERVE IS A PURIST, AND I THINK ON HERVE, IT'S GONNA BE ALL AUSTIN PEOPLE THAT GO TO THAT HOUSE OUT THERE AT THE FARM.

IT'S, AND THIS IS GOING TO BE AT LEAST A HISTORIC PLACE, AND IT'S A PURIST THAT'S GOING TO MAKE THIS HOUSE A KEEPS PURE AS IT IS NOW.

THERE WON'T BE ANY, NEITHER ONE OF 'EM ARE ALLOWED TO PAINT THE HOUSES.

THAT'S PART OF THE DEAL WITH ME.

, GO AHEAD.

ANY OTHER, UH, THANK YOU, MR. WELBORN.

UH, YEAH, ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS FROM COMMISSIONERS OF, UH, APPLICANT? OKAY.

ARE THERE, IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE HERE TO SPEAK? I, I'VE GOT A, I'VE GOT A QUICK QUESTION.

YES, GO AHEAD.

UH, COMMISSIONER, UM, AND, AND, AND, AND THANK YOU, SIR.

YOU DID ANSWER MY QUESTION.

LIKE, WHAT, WHAT WAS THE CHANGE, UM, TIME ON 6 0 6 MOVING FROM A, UM, RELOCATION TO, UH, DEMOLITION AND, AND, AND UNDERSTOOD.

IS IT SIMPLY A BUSINESS DECISION OR WAS THERE ANY OTHER REASONS WHY, UM, THAT DECISION WAS MADE? I, I WASN'T INVOLVED UP UNTIL JUST THIS

[02:25:01]

APPLICATION.

I WASN'T INVOLVED IN THE, THE, MY UNDERSTANDING WAS A BARTER A TRADE OFF.

I'LL SET UP THE SECOND EMPIRE HOUSE, IF WE CAN DEMOLISH THE LITTLE, THE LITTLE COTTAGE WAS A, WAS A BARTER, UH, IS MY UNDERSTANDING OF IT.

I DON'T WANNA, I DON'T WANNA BE QUOTED ON THAT.

YOU WE'RE GLAD.

I DON'T SPEAK FOR MANCHESTER FINANCIAL.

THEY'RE VERY BIG GUYS TO, TO GET THAT WRONG.

YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? BUT, OKAY.

I SPEAK FOR THE HOUSES.

I DO DO THAT QUESTION.

UH, COMMISSIONER ALVAREZ.

YEAH, I, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE A COMMENT, NOT SO MUCH A QUESTION ON, UH, JUST THE SUBJECT OF CONTEXT.

I'M THINKING HERE OF, UH, KIND OF COMPARING IT TO 1306 GUADALUPE, WHICH WE LOOKED AT EARLIER, WHICH APPEARS TO BE SIMILAR PERIOD.

ALSO A SMALL STRUCTURE, UH, OVER THERE.

UH, MY OFFICE IS ACTUALLY RIGHT NEXT TO IT, SO I KNOW THAT BEHIND IT TO THE WEST, UH, YOU HAVE, UH, MORE BUILDINGS BACK THERE THAT ARE ZONED HISTORIC.

AND, UH, YOU, YOU, YOU GET A SENSE OF, UH, MAYBE WHAT THAT WAS LOOKING AT THIS TO, UH, I, I WAS JUST LOOKING AT A PROPERTY PROFILE.

TCAT, UH, THERE'S THE CONVENTION CENTER TO THE WEST.

THERE'S RAINEY STREET TO THE SOUTH.

UH, WE DO HAVE TWO HISTORIC ZONE PROPERTIES ON THE CORNERS OF THIRD IN RED RIVER, ONE OWNED BY THE CITY.

UM, OUTSIDE OF THAT, IT SEEMS WE HAVE THESE TWO STRUCTURES AND A, I THINK A HOUSE BETWEEN THEM AND RED RIVERS.

SO, UH, I THINK IT'S, IT'S A TOUGH QUESTION.

I'M JUST WONDERING IF RELOCATION IS, IS THE BEST PLACE FOR THESE, OR, UH, HISTORIC ZONING.

BUT I JUST WANTED TO KNOW THAT THERE ARE TWO HISTORICALLY ZONE PROPERTIES ADJACENT TO THESE.

SO IT'S NOT, UH, I GUESS IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT HAS, THAT'S NOT HAPPENING ON THIS BLOCK.

AND THESE, THESE HAD BEEN ON OUR AGENDA WITH THAT AS ONE OF THE OPTIONS THAT WE COULD HAVE PURSUED AT THE TIME.

WE WERE WORKING WITH AN OWNER WHO WANTED US TO WORK WITH THEM TO FIND A PERMANENT HOME THAT WAS ESSENTIALLY ADJACENT OR WITHIN THE DISTRICT.

SO WE WOULDN'T LOSE AT LEAST THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THE HOUSES RELATE TO EACH OTHER, UH, AND TO WHAT WAS THERE ORIGINALLY.

BUT OBVIOUSLY THAT'S NO LONGER AN OPTION.

THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO PURSUE EARLIER.

IN COMPARING TO GUADALUPE, WHAT I'D SAY IS THERE SEEMS TO BE MORE CONTEXT OVER THERE.

THERE'S LESS CONTEXT OVER HERE AT THIS POINT.

, SADLY.

BUT THAT'S A GOOD POINT.

UH, YEAH.

UH, GO AHEAD, COMMISSIONER DUDLEY.

AN OPTION IF ALL THE OTHER AVENUES WERE EXHAUSTED AND WE JUST WOULDN'T HAVE A ROLE IN IMPROVING A RELOCATION PERMIT BECAUSE ITS HISTORIC NATURE WOULD'VE BEEN ADJUDICATED AT THAT POINT.

SO IF WE WOULD RECOMMEND HI HISTORIC ZONING BE INITIATED, WHAT THEN HAPPENS TO THESE HOUSES IF THEY'RE SEPARATE FROM THE LAND, UH, THE HISTORIC ZONING, WHAT'S THEIR POTENTIAL FATE? UH, COMMISSIONER, THE HISTORIC ZONING WILL GO WITH THE LAND.

MM-HMM.

BUT THEY DO PROTECT THE HOUSES ON THEM.

UH, THE WAY THAT OUR PROCESS WORKS IS WE INITIATE THE, UH, HISTORIC ZONING REQUEST.

UH, ULTIMATELY IT IS THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL THAT HAVE TO HAVE THE FINAL APPROVAL.

AND, UH, STATE LAW HAS RECENTLY BEEN AMENDED AND HAS RAISED THE BAR FOR A HISTORIC ZONING OVER AN OWNER'S OBJECTION, UH, TO THE POINT WHERE WE HAVE NOT HAD ONE YET THAT HAS BEEN ZONED HISTORIC OVER AN OWNER'S OBJECTION.

SO THE TOOL OF, UH, RECOMMENDING HISTORIC ZONING IN THIS CASE, THE MOST WE MIGHT HOPE FOR, IS A WAY OF DELAYING AND MAYBE NEGOTIATING OR TALKING WITH AN OWNER AND GETTING THEM TO CHANGE THEIR MIND.

AND THAT HAS BEEN A TOOL WE'VE USED.

BUT, UH, I WOULD SAY THAT FRANKLY, THE, THE, THE FACT THAT WE'VE ALREADY HAD SOME HISTORY HERE MAKES IT VERY UNLIKELY THAT THAT IS ANY, ANY OTHER OUTCOME IS GOING TO BE PRESENTED.

UM, IF WE LOSE THE INITIATION OF HISTORIC ZONING AND, UH, THE OWNER THEN FILES FOR A DEMOLITION PERMIT, THEY WOULD HAVE NOTHING IN THEIR WAY.

THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO GET THEM IMMEDIATELY.

UH, COMMISSIONER COOK, DO YOU WANT TO ADD TO THAT? YES.

I JUST WANTED TO CONFIRM WITH STAFF IN THAT LINE THAT IF WE DID INITIATE AND THEN RECOMMEND AND THEN IT WITH THE SUPERMAJORITY AND THEN IT WENT TO PLANNING AND THEN WENT TO CITY COUNCIL WITH THE SUPERMAJORITY AND BAIL SOMEWHERE ALONG THE WAY, UM, THAT RELOCATION COULD STILL HAPPEN.

AND WE WOULD HAVE NO PART IN THAT, THAT RELOCATION WOULD STILL BE

[02:30:01]

IS THAT CORRECT? YES.

THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S NOT CORRECT.

BUT I MEAN, THAT'S NOT INCORRECT.

BUT THAT'S NOT, THEY, THEY, THE QUESTION I THINK IS COULD THEY STILL RELOCATE? YES, THEY COULD.

THERE'S NO REASON THEY'D HAVE TO COME BACK TO US.

THEY COULD JUST AS EASILY GET A DEMO PERMIT TOO.

SORRY.

THEY COULD BASICALLY DO WHATEVER THEY WANTED, CUZ THEY'VE ALREADY BEEN THROUGH OUR PROCESSES.

OH, SORRY ABOUT THAT.

AND COMMISSIONER DUDLEY, JUST, YOU KNOW, I, THIS THIS IS, THIS IS A TOUGH ONE FOR YOU TO HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, JUMP IN YOUR FIRST MEETING.

BUT YOU KNOW, THE, THIS, THIS IS THE, THE REALITY WE'VE BEEN DEALING WITH OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, UH, AS THE, THE BAR GOT RAISED SIGNIFICANTLY WHEN AN OWNER OBJECTS, UM, I, I ALSO HAVE TO SAY, JUST EDITORIALLY, THIS IS AN ISSUE SINCE I'VE BEEN ON THE COMMISSION AND, UH, AS I'VE BEEN ACTIVE WITH THE DOWNTOWN COMMISSION, IS OUR REPRESENTATIVE THERE THAT I'VE BEEN EXTREMELY CONCERNED, AND WE HEARD THE NUMBER TONIGHT.

AND, UH, OBVIOUSLY MR. WELLBORN, WE'RE NOT GONNA QUOTE YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE NO AC YOU'RE, YOU'RE NOT REPRESENTING MANCHESTER FINANCIAL, BUT JUST BECAUSE YOU THREW OUT 660 MILLION, UH, 660 MILLION MAKES THESE HOUSES, UH, YOU KNOW, AND THE LIKELIHOOD THAT SOMEBODY WILL WANT TO KEEP A COUPLE OF ROOMS OF A HISTORIC HOUSE, UH, THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN VERY CONCERNED ABOUT.

AND THIS IS, UH, INDICATIVE OF A MUCH BROADER PROBLEM THAT WE'RE HAVING WITH, UH, HISTORIC PROPERTIES DOWNTOWN.

YOU COULD ALMOST GO THROUGH THE, THE GROCERY LIST, UH, AND CHECK THEM OUT AND KNOW THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE FUTURE CONFLICTS IF WE DON'T HAVE A BETTER SOLUTION, UH, THAN, YOU KNOW, OFFERING A HISTORIC ZONING TO A, UM, A PROPERTY WITH AN OWNER, UH, HAS OTHER ALTERNATIVES.

I HATE TO INTERRUPT, BUT TO FURTHER THIS DISCUSSION, WE SHOULD REALLY CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND START A MOTION TO FURTHER THE DISCUSSION AMONG THE DYES.

THANK YOU FOR THE REMINDER.

UH, LET ME ASK IF THERE'S ANYBODY ELSE HERE TO SPEAK ON THE MOTION.

UH, HEARING NONE, I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.

I MOVE TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING.

MR. LAROCHE HAS MOVED, SECONDED WITH, UH, COMMISSIONER, UH, MCW.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR INDICATE BY SAYING AYE OR RAISE YOUR HAND.

ANY OPPOSED? OKAY.

AND THEN YOU ALL HAVE THE OPTION TO, TO TAKE THE ITEMS TOGETHER.

IF SO, THERE NEEDS TO BE A MOTION TO TAKE THE ITEMS TOGETHER, OTHERWISE YOU CAN TAKE THEM SEPARATELY.

COMMISSION.

SO MOVED.

SECOND.

SO, COMMISSIONER, UH, PLEASE EXPLAIN.

YOU'RE, YOU'RE TAKING A MOTION TO PICK UP BOTH ITEMS AND ACT ON THEM TOGETHER? CORRECT.

THAT'S YOUR MOTION.

UH, AND THAT'S BEEN SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER? THAT'S CORRECT.

RECORDER THOSE IN FAVOR INDICATE BY SAYING AYE OR RAISING YOUR HAND.

THAT'S UNANIMOUS.

SO THE, THE MOTION THAT WE CAN ENTERTAIN CAN BE PERTAINING TO BOTH PROPERTIES.

I, I THINK I, I'LL TRY TO FORMULATE THE MOTION PRETTY SIMPLE, BUT I DO WANT TO TRY TO INITIATE A HISTORIC ZONING ON THIS.

I THINK, UH, THE CONTEXT THERE FOR A, A BIG PORTION OF AUSTIN THAT WE'RE, WE'RE LOSING, WE HAVE A PRETTY GOOD INTACT HALF BLOCK, AT LEAST RIGHT THERE.

I THINK IT'S CONNECTION TO WALLER CREEK ALONG WITH PALM SCHOOL JUST CREATES A REALLY GOOD, UM, YEAH, A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES THERE.

AND THIS HAS NO, I GUESS NO FEELING OR EMOTION TO THE PROPOSED RELOCATION PLANS AT ALL.

BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, IF IT WAS AN OPTION BACK THEN PRIOR TO OUR SUPER MAJORITY REQUIREMENTS, NOW IT'S SOMETHING THAT I AT LEAST WANT TO BE ABLE TO SAY IN ALL MY EFFORT THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, UM, WE TRY TO DO HERE.

SO, UM, I WILL PUT A MOTION TO INITIATE HISTORIC ZONING ON BOTH OF THESE TWO PROPERTIES.

COMMISSIONER RUBIA, WE HAVE A MOTION.

IS THERE A SECOND? COMMISSIONER COOK? UH, YOU HAVE A SECOND? I, I'D LIKE TO SECOND AND TO, UH, CLARIFY THAT THE, UH, CRITERIA ARE ARCHITECTURE AND CO, UM, UM, COMMUNITY VALUE FOR, FOR BOTH PROPERTIES.

IS THAT, THAT IS, UH, CONSISTENT WITH YOUR MOTION, COMMISSIONER RUBIO, THE, THE TWO CRITERIA? SOUNDS GREAT.

UH, COMMISSIONER RUBIO, WOULD YOU LIKE TO, UH, SPEAK IN MORE ON YOUR MOTION? I THINK, I THINK I SAID ENOUGH.

AT THAT POINT IN THEIR FUTURE.

COMMISSIONER COOK? YEAH, I, I AGREE WITH THE COMMENTS.

I THINK THIS IS THE BEST THING WE CAN DO.

NOW IT'S COME AROUND A NUMBER OF TIMES.

I, I THINK THE, THE DEAL HERE IS PROBABLY IS, WAS CLEARLY THE, THE SWEETEST ONE, UH, WE'VE SEEN, BUT IT'S STILL A, UH, RELOCATION OUT OF THEIR CONTEXT.

UH, AND WE WOULD HAVE NO CONTROL OF THEM

[02:35:01]

UH, WE HAVE COMMUNITY VALUE HERE BETWEEN THE PALM SCHOOL DEVELOPMENT AND, UH, ADJACENT TO THESE OTHER LANDMARKS, UH, UH, THAT AS A WHOLE WOULD CREATE, UH, YOU KNOW, REPRESENTATION OF EARLY AUSTIN.

UNLIKE THAT WE HAVE ANYWHERE ELSE BETWEEN THE CONVENTION CENTER, RAINEY STREET, SIXTH STREET, UM, UH, RIGHT THERE NEXT TO THE PALM SCHOOL DEVELOPMENT.

IT'S A REAL OPPORTUNITY FOR, UM, FOR EVERYTHING TO WORK TOGETHER.

AND, UM, THIS IS NOT A FINDING OF FACT, BUT I I DO KNOW THAT THE, THE PLANS THAT HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED IN, IN THE PAST FOR THIS PROPERTY WOULD NOT PRECLUDE RETAINING THESE PROPERTIES AND STILL FULFILLING THE MAJORITY OF THE DEVELOPMENT POTENTIAL OF THIS, OF THIS SITE AS, AS THE OWNER HAS, HAS PLANNED.

SO, I, I DON'T THINK WE'RE LOSING AN OPPORTUNITY FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

I DON'T THINK WE'RE LOSING AN OPPORTUNITY FOR DENSITY.

I THINK THE ONLY THING WE'RE LOSING IF WE LOSE THESE TWO PROPERTIES IS, UH, A VERY RARE PIECE OF AUSTIN HISTORY.

UM, AND I THINK THERE IS A, A DESIGN RESOLUTION ULTIMATELY TO KEEP THESE AND, AND DEVELOP DOWNTOWN.

UH, YES, COMMISSIONER, I, I AGREE WITH THE, I AGREE WITH THE SEN SENTIMENT.

MY CONCERN IS IT'S THE, IT'S THE RISK OF LOSING THE HOMES ALTOGETHER.

AND I THINK THAT THAT'S THE DOWNSIDE TO ME IS, UH, SHOULD, SHOULD HISTORIC ZONING NOT GO THROUGH, I DON'T THINK THERE'S, UH, ANY FINANCIAL MOTIVATION TO PRESERVE THE HOME.

THEN I WOULD LIKE TO CLARIFY THAT INITIATION OF HISTORIC ZONING, IT WILL COME BACK TO US NEXT MONTH FOR RECOMMENDATION.

SO, UM, UPON MORE INFORMATION FROM STAFF AND, YOU KNOW, A MONTH'S TIME, UM, YOU CAN CHOOSE WHETHER OR NOT TO RECOMMEND OR RELEASE, UH, THE, THE RELOCATION PERMIT.

UM, SO THERE IS, IT'S NOT LEAVING US JUST YET.

SO THIS IS THE, THIS IS THE RECOMMENDATION TO INITIATE THE ACTION THEN WOULD, WOULD BE AT THE NEXT MEETING.

SO THIS IS WHEN WE COME BACK WITH YOUR FINDINGS.

SO THIS IS INITIATION NEXT MONTH.

IT WILL COME BACK TO US FOR RECOMMENDATION.

COMMISSIONER NEW? THAT'S CORRECT.

UM, COMMISSIONERS, ANY, ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS? YEAH, SO WHAT HAPPENS IN BETWEEN NOW AND NEXT MONTH? SO STAFF WILL DO, UM, ADDITIONAL RESEARCH INTO BOTH PROPERTIES, REALLY WEIGHING IN ON THE HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE, ESPECIALLY, UH, FOR ARCHITECTURE AND COMMUNITY VALUE AS OUTLINED IN THE MOTION.

UM, AND I THINK CALLAN CAN SPEAK MORE TO THAT.

ORDINARILY THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS, I THINK, GIVEN THIS CASE HISTORY, IT'S BEEN PRETTY THOROUGHLY RESEARCHED FOR BOTH OF THESE PROPERTIES.

UM, SO IT WOULD BE, UH, YOU WOULD RECEIVE LIMITED NEW INFORMATION NEXT MONTH.

YOU WOULD RE YOU WOULD REPACKAGE BASICALLY THE RESEARCH AND SEE IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT HAS TURNED UP.

COMMISSIONER COOK.

AND I WOULD NOTE TO COMMISSIONER LEROS CONCERN THAT THE SAME DISCUSSION IF THIS PROCEEDS WOULD BE HAD AT PLANNING AT AT CITY COUNCIL.

SO CITY COUNCIL'S DECISION COULD ALSO HINGE ON WHETHER THESE ARE ULTIMATELY RELOCATED OR PRESERVED ON, ON SITE.

AND I IMAGINE THAT THAT SWEETENING OF THE POT WOULD CONTINUE ALL THE WAY UP.

SO I THINK AT THE, AT THE FINAL DECISION, IT'S VERY, VERY, VERY LIKELY THAT RELOCATION IS STILL GONNA BE EMPLOYED.

CAN STAFF ALSO PROVIDE ANY CONTEXT NEXT MONTH ON WHAT IS THIS 660 MILLION PROJECT THAT THIS IS A PART OF? THAT WOULD HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHETHER THIS IS A FUTILE EX EXERCISE OR WHETHER I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW BAKED THOSE PLANS ARE.

UM, COMMISSIONER, SINCE THIS IS NOT WITHIN A HISTORIC DISTRICT, UH, WE HAVE LIMITED PURVIEW OVER, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE CAN REVIEW MM-HMM.

UM, AS FAR AS NEW CONSTRUCTION GOES, UM, TECHNICALLY, UH, WE ARE ONLY LOOKING AT DEMOLITION OR RELOCATION AND NOT NECESSARILY THE NEW STRUCTURE.

UH, WE CAN REQUEST THAT THE APPLICANT OR THE PROPERTY OWNER, UM, MAKE A PRESENTATION TO Y'ALL ON THAT.

BUT, UH, IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT, UH, IS, IS PART OF THE NORMAL PURVIEW OF THESE TYPES OF PERMITS.

GOT IT.

BECAUSE A LOT OF TIMES I FEEL LIKE WE HEAR FROM A DEVELOPER, THEY COME AND PRESENT PLANS FOR AN SOMETHING THAT INCORPORATES A A HISTORIC PROPERTY.

AND I GUESS BECAUSE IT'S NOT HISTORIC, THAT'S WHY WE'RE, WE'VE NEVER HEARD FROM ANYONE.

ALL OWNED BY LLCS AND I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THEY'RE ALL ACTUALLY THE SAME MASTER, YOU KNOW, DEVELOPER OR, OR WHETHER THEY'RE ALL DISTINCT INDIVIDUAL PROPERTIES.

AND WE CAN CERTAINLY REQUEST THAT THE PROPERTY OWNER, UM, PROVIDE THAT INFORMATION TO Y'ALL.

AM I THE ONLY ONE THAT WANTS THAT OR IS ANYBODY ELSE NO, I THINK IT'S RELEVANT.

ABSOLUTELY.

YEAH, BECAUSE I DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW WHO OWNS, I MEAN, THERE'S, I'M LOOKING AT THE, THE, THE PLAT AND THERE ARE LOTS OF PROPERTIES THERE.

I DON'T KNOW, THERE'RE

[02:40:01]

SO IT'S JUST HELPFUL TO UNDERSTAND.

I THINK WE'LL REACH OUT.

COMMISSIONER COOK, I'M GONNA SAY IT'S NOT MATERIAL TO THIS DISCUSSION, BUT IF YOU SEARCH, UH, ARCHIVES OF PREVIOUS PRESENTATIONS ON, ON THESE CASES, YOU CAN SEE WHAT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED IN THE PAST FOR THIS PROPERTY.

ABSOLUTELY.

ANY MORE CONVERSATION, UH, DISCUSSION? UM, I, I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN SUPPORT THE MOTION TO, UH, I GUESS PURSUE WHAT, WHAT I WOULD SAY IS A FALSE HOPE.

UM, AND AGAIN, IN DEFERENCE TO OUR NEW COMMISSIONERS, UM, THIS HAS A HISTORY.

I THINK WE SPENT A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF EFFORT TRYING TO FIND THE RIGHT LOCATION, UH, COOPERATE WITH AT THE TIME AN OWNER THAT WAS AT LEAST PLAYING WITH US.

UM, UH, HAVING BEEN ON THE RECEIVING END OF, UM, THE, UM, ACTIONS WHEN WE, UH, ACTIVELY PURSUE, UH, THE POWER OF THE HISTORIC ZONING, UH, WHICH IS A CONSIDERABLE BENEFIT.

BUT THERE ARE LOTS OF, LOTS OF ASPECTS TO IT THAT, UM, HAVE A LOT OF IMPLICATIONS BECAUSE IT IS A ZONING ISSUE.

UM, AGAIN, UM, I I I FEEL LIKE WE HAVE TO HAVE AN IRONCLAD CASE.

UH, WE HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT IS UNASSAILABLE, BOTH ARCHITECTURALLY AND IN TERMS OF THE ASSOCIATIONS WHERE THE AVERAGE PERSON LOOKING AT IT WOULD FEEL ABSOLUTELY, UH, HORRIFIED IF THAT BUILDING WAS GOING TO BE LOST FOR US TO REALLY BE ABLE TO MAKE THE CASE, UH, WITH SO MANY THINGS STACKED AGAINST US.

UH, I, I THINK I ALSO, UH, KNOW HOW THIS WORKS WHEN, UH, YOU'VE PUT TOGETHER AS MR. WELBORN HAS A PACKAGE WITH, UH, WILLING, UM, PROPERTY OWNERS WHO, UH, WANT TO FIGURE OUT GOOD AND CREATIVE THINGS TO DO WITH THESE HOUSES.

AND, UH, I GUESS I, I HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A FEELING LIKE WE'RE CLOSING THE BARN AND DOOR AFTER THE HOUSE.

THE, THE, THE, THE CATTLE ARE GONE.

UH, AND I JUST SOON SEE THE CATTLE ON THEIR WAY TO A NEW HOME.

UM, BUT AGAIN, UM, WE HAVE, WE DON'T HAVE THE FINAL DECISION IF WE DO PUT IT OFF, AND THAT MAY MAY COME UP AND I MAY BE ABLE TO CHANGE MY MIND BY THE NEXT MEETING IF, IF THIS MOTION PASSES, BUT I, I WILL VOTE AGAINST IT.

ANY MORE? CONVERSATION? DISCUSSION? I'M GONNA VOTE FOR THE MOTION, BUT ALMOST, I, I'VE GOT SUCH MIXED FEELINGS.

I I, I APPRECIATE EVERYTHING THAT YOU JUST SAID AND MY FEELINGS MIGHT SWITCH THE OTHER WAY BY NEXT TIME, BUT I'M GONNA SUPPORT THIS ONE .

WE'LL SEE HOW IT GOES.

COMMISSIONER COOK.

UH, IF, IF I CAN JUST SPEAK, SPEAK TO YOUR, YOUR PREVIOUS COMMENTS.

THE WAY I SEE OUR JOB IS WE'RE AT THE END OF THE CONVEYOR BELT BEFORE THINGS GET TOSSED INTO TRASH, AND WE TAKE THINGS ASIDE FOR FURTHER REVIEW.

AND ALTHOUGH IT'S A VERY UPHILL CLIMB ON THE OTHER END OF IT, I, I JUST DON'T THINK WE WOULD BE DOING OUR JOB IF WE LET THINGS GO AT, AT THIS LEVEL.

I, I JUST THINK THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT ARE IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO DESERVE FURTHER REVIEW.

HOWEVER, UNLIKELY IT MAY BE THAT THEY'RE GONNA MAKE IT.

UH, OUR JOB IS, OUR JOB IS TO PUSH IT UP FOR, FOR REVIEW.

AND SO THAT, THAT'S WHY I, UH, AM SUPPORTIVE OF SECOND OF THE MOTION.

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.

ANY MORE DISCUSSION? ALRIGHT.

WE HAVE A MOTION ON THE TABLE TO, UH, REQUEST INITIATION OF HISTORIC ZONING WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT WE'LL HAVE A REPORT FROM STAFF THE NEXT MEETING.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR INDICATE BY RAISING YOUR HAND.

OH.

WE HAVE NINE COMMISSIONERS IN FAVOR AND I'M RAISING MY HAND IN OPPOSITION.

UH, ONE AGAINST THE MOTION CARRIES AND WE ARE GOING TO INITIATE HISTORIC ZONING, UH, AND, UH, ASK THE STAFF TO BEGIN THE RESEARCH PROCESS.

UM, AGAIN, THAT WILL PROMPT A VERY INTERESTING MEETING, UH, IN AUGUST.

SO, ALRIGHT.

COMMISSIONERS.

I THINK, IS THAT THE LAST OF THE CASES? YES, IT IS.

THAT BRINGS US TO ALL THE FUN STUFF, JUST TO BE CLEAR.

SO STAFF WILL ALSO INVITE THE DEVELOPER OR THE OWNER TO, YEP.

YEAH, I THINK HEARING FROM THE OWNER WILL BE VERY HELPFUL, UH, IF THAT IS AT ALL POSSIBLE.

UH, MR. WELLBORN, WE'VE MADE A GOOD PRESENTATION.

WE KNOW WHAT THAT ALTERNATIVE IS, BUT I DO THINK THAT, UH, KNOWING WHAT THE FATE OF THESE HOUSES ARE AFTER ALL THIS TIME WILL BE VERY HELPFUL.

QUESTION.

YOU'LL BE BACK.

GOING TO MAKE A SUGGESTION.

UM, COMMISSIONERS, I'M

[20. Architectural Review Committee]

UH, WE HAD TO CANCEL THE ARCHITECTURE REVIEW COMMITTEE.

UH, WE HAD TWO MEMBERS, AND IN

[02:45:01]

ORDER TO HAVE A QUORUM, WE HAD TO HAVE TWO MEMBERS IN ATTENDANCE.

UH, UNFORTUNATELY WE HAD A, A LATE CHANGE OF PLANS AND WE THEREFORE WEREN'T ABLE TO HAVE A QUORUM, SO WE CANCELED.

SO I THINK IT WOULD BEHOOVE US, PARTICULARLY SINCE WE HAVE SOME IMPORTANT CASES THAT YOU'RE GONNA GO IN FRONT OF THE ARCHITECTURE REVIEW COMMITTEE.

WE HAVE SEVEN CASES.

SEVEN CASES, INCLUDING THE ONES THAT HAD TO CANCEL LAST MONTH.

SO, SO IF WE COULD GET A ONE MORE, THREE, THREE MEMBERS WHO WILL BE WILLING TO SERVE, AND JUST TO MAKE IT EASY ON OURSELVES, WHAT I'M GONNA PROPOSE IS THAT THESE APPOINTMENTS BE UNTIL OUR NEXT MEETING, BECAUSE YEAH, THAT'S FINE.

WE CAN DO THAT.

WE CAN CHANGE THE APPOINTMENTS.

AND I THINK IF WE, AT OUR RETREAT, WHICH IS ITEM 24, UH, HAVE A RICH CONVERSATION ABOUT THE, UH, FOUR STANDING COMMITTEES AND ANY SPECIAL COMMITTEES THAT MIGHT NEED TO BE FORMED.

THEN AS WE GET INTO OUR AUGUST MEETING, WE CAN REPOPULATE, UH, GONNA START FROM SCRATCH AND START ALL OVER AGAIN AND WHO GETS TO GO WHERE.

MM-HMM.

BUT IN THE MEANTIME, THERE IS A VERY IMPORTANT RESPONSIBILITY THAT, UH, IS CARRIED BY THE ARCHITECTURE REVIEW COMMITTEE.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE, UH, COMMISSIONER CASTILLO AND COMMISSIONER COOK, AND, UH, IF WE COULD GET ONE MORE MEMBER, UH, THAT WE COULD APPOINT AT LEAST FOR THE NEXT 30 DAYS, UH, THAT WILL MAKE THE POSSIBILITY OF GETTING THE QUORUM MUCH EASIER.

CAN YOU CONFIRM THAT DATE FOR THE NEXT ARC MEETING? YEAH, IT'S WEDNESDAY, JULY 12TH AT 3:30 PM AND THAT TIME CAN BE ADJUSTED IF NEEDED.

THAT'S NEXT WEEK, CORRECT? YES.

NEXT WEDNESDAY.

IT'S USUALLY THE WEEK AF LIKE ONE WEEK EXACTLY AFTER HLC.

I, I BELIEVE I CAN PLAN ON BEING THERE FOR THIS, THIS MEETING.

AND ARE ALL THREE OF YOU GOOD WITH THREE 30? I KNOW THAT TIME KIND OF SCARES SOME PEOPLE AWAY.

IT SCARES ME A LOT.

WE CAN, I'M NOT SURE IF THERE'S A WAY WE COULD BUMP THAT UP A LITTLE, BUT IF, YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALSO AN OPPORTUNITY FOR ME TO ATTEND, UH, PHYSICAL, PHYSICALLY AND THEN MAYBE HOP ON VIRTUALLY, UH, ON THE WAY OUT.

BUT I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW.

I'M JUST OKAY.

I'M OPEN TO OPTIONS.

I DON'T WANNA CHANGE YOUR SCHEDULE.

HOW ABOUT, LET'S KEEP THREE 30 FOR NOW, BUT THEN AT THE TRAINING AND RETREAT WE CAN DISCUSS NEW TIMES AS NEEDED FOR, TO FIT WHOEVER'S SCHEDULE IS AS NEEDED.

SO LET'S KEEP THREE 30 FOR NOW.

SOUNDS GOOD.

UM, YEAH, AND AS LONG AS WE HAVE TWO PRESENT, WE SHOULD BE GOOD.

AND THAT WORKS FOR ME.

AND I APOLOGIZE FOR LAST TIME, BUT IT WAS NO WORRIES.

NO, NO.

WE, I HAVE TO GIVE US, THEY MADE ME GIVE US SAN ANTONIO LAST MINUTE, SO STUFF HAPPENS, MAN.

NO WORRIES.

COMMISSIONER, WE, WE APPRECIATE YOUR, YOUR STEPPING FORWARD AND WE KNOW THAT THAT HAPPENS.

UH, THE FACT THAT THERE WERE ONLY TWO OF YOU, YOU COULDN'T CONTROL THAT, RIGHT? WE TRIED .

DID YOU JUST SAY STUFF HAPPENS? NO WORRIES.

YEAH, THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU TOLD ME.

WELL, HE'S NOT A REPEAT OFFENDER YET.

COMMISSIONERS, UH, I BELIEVE THAT WE DO NEED AN APPOINTMENT TO BE, UH, UH, CONFIRMED.

IS THAT CORRECT? YEAH.

SO, UH, UH, WITH A LOT OF CELEBRATION AND THE THANKS, , WE'LL, WE'LL GO AHEAD AND, AND, UH, NOMINATE, UH, COMMISSIONER RUBIO FOR THE, UH, ARCHITECTURE REVIEW COMMITTEE.

ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE RAISE YOUR HAND.

INTO THE TRAINING AND RETREAT.

THOSE OPPOSED, COMMISSIONER RUBIO, YOU DIDN'T RAISE YOUR HAND.

BY THE WAY, WE DO APPRECIATE, UH, ALL MEMBERS WHO SERVE, AND I THINK, UH, COMMISSIONERS, PARTICULARLY THE NEW ONES, UH, THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES TO DO NEW THINGS, UH, WITH THE STANDING COMMITTEES.

AND I CERTAINLY AM OPEN IF THERE'S A NEED FOR ANYTHING SPECIAL.

UH, WE HAVE OCCASIONALLY HAD SPECIAL COMMITTEES, UH, THAT REALLY DOES BRING US

[24. 2023 Commissioner Training and Retreat]

I UNDERSTAND.

UH, ONE OR TWO MAY NOT BE ABLE TO ATTEND.

UH, IF THERE'S ANY WAY WE COULD ALL BE THERE, IT WOULD BE FANTASTIC.

BUT COMMISSIONER COOK, I UNDERSTAND YOU DO HAVE A CONFLICT, IS THAT CORRECT? IS THAT, IS THAT FOR NEXT MONTH'S MEETING? NO, THIS IS NOW FOR THE TRAINING, YEAH.

OH, FOR THE TRAINING.

UH, REMIND ME THE DATE AGAIN.

I'M SORRY.

IT'S MONDAY, JULY 24TH.

24TH.

I THINK I'M GONNA BE ABLE TO BE THERE.

SO WHAT, WHAT I'LL BE PROPOSING IS THAT WE HAVE THE MORNING TO GO THROUGH SOME OF THE SPECIFIC RESPONSIBILITIES WE HAVE.

WE'LL BE INVITING, UH, SOME OF THE VERY INVOLVED STAFF WHO WORK WITH US ON THE, UM, UH, THE EQUITY BASED PLAN, OUR GRANTS, UH, SOME OF THE OTHER, UH, ASPECTS THAT WE'VE GOTTA BE INVOLVED IN WITH THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT.

UH, KIND OF A FOLLOW UP

[02:50:01]

ON THE PRESENTATION WE HAD AT THE, UH, UH, OPERATIONS COMMITTEE EARLIER.

UM, AND, AND I THINK THAT WITH THAT UNDER OUR BELT, WHAT I'M GOING TO PROPOSE IS THAT WE HAVE A AFTERNOON WHERE WE DO SOME SERIOUS BRAINSTORMING AND WE REALLY LOOK AT, PARTICULARLY THE NEW COMMISSIONERS, WHAT SKILLS AND, UH, INTERESTS YOU BRING TO THE TABLE.

UM, BUT ALSO EXAMINE MAYBE CRITICALLY WHAT IT IS THAT THE PRESERVATION MOVEMENT IN GENERAL AND HOW THIS COMMITTEE, UH, THIS COMMISSION SPECIFICALLY HAS BEEN OPERATING AND SEE IF WE CAN'T PLUG SOME HOLES OR MAYBE EXPAND ON WHAT WE DO AS OUR, AS WITH OUR VOLUNTEER TIME TO BE MORE EFFECTIVE.

SO, UH, I THINK IT'LL BE A RICH EXCHANGE.

I HOPE WE CAN COME UP WITH QUITE A BIT, UH, AT THE END.

AND I DO ENCOURAGE EVERYBODY TO, UH, UM, I KNOW IT'S A BIG COMMITMENT, BUT TO BE ABLE TO COMMIT TO THE WHOLE DAY IF THEY CAN.

UM, ALSO IT JUST HAPPENS THAT I, UH, ATTENDED A WEBINAR FROM THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF PLANNING COMMISSIONS WHO, UH, DO AN INTRODUCTION AND AN OVERVIEW OF BEST PRACTICES FOR, UH, PLANNING COMMISSIONS NATIONALLY.

AND IT WAS AN EYEOPENER.

UH, AS LONG AS I'VE BEEN ON A COMMISSION, EVEN I LEARNED THEIR NEW THINGS.

UH, SO, UH, I HAPPENED TO HAVE A RECORDING THAT THEY SENT ME, AND, UH, I'VE ASKED THE STAFF TO DISTRIBUTE THAT TO EACH OF YOU.

AND, UH, I THINK WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IT EARLIER, UH, MS. ALLEN, COULD WE OFFICIALLY CALL THAT HOMEWORK? YES.

IT'LL BE HOMEWORK BEFORE THE TRAINING.

AND BEN, IF YOU COULD SEND ME THAT, THAT'D BE AWESOME.

I WAS SUPPOSED TO GET YOU THE LINK THIS AFTERNOON.

I'M SENDING IT TO YOU.

DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT, UH, THIS EVENING.

BUT, UH, PLEASE LOOK FOR THAT IN YOUR BOX, THAT THAT'S YOUR HOMEWORK.

COMMISSIONER, I, MY HOMEWORK IS TO GET YOU YOUR HOMEWORK.

UH, BUT IT IS A VERY, VERY RICH HOUR AND A HALF, UH, WITH SOME VERY, UH, EXPERT FOLKS WHO DISCUSS VERY PRACTICAL ISSUES.

AND EVEN THOSE OF YOU WHO ONLY HAD A FEW MEETINGS UNDER YOUR BELT, YOU'LL RECOGNIZE RIGHT AWAY SOME OF THE, UH, INFORMATION THAT THEY'RE SUGGESTING FOR OUR REGULAR OPERATING.

BUT I THINK MORE IMPORTANTLY, UH, THEY PUT THE WORK OF THE COMMISSION INTO AN IMPORTANT CONTEXT.

UH, OUR RESPONSIBILITIES AREN'T JUST WHAT WE DO UP HERE ON THE DAIS, AND I THINK THEY, THEY OPENED UP SOME VERY RICH DIS UH, ITEMS THAT I'D LIKE TO ADD TO OUR CONVERSATION AT OUR RETREAT.

SO, OKAY.

UH, ANY MORE DISCUSSION ABOUT COMMITTEES OR THE RETREAT? I THINK WE'VE COMPLETED OUR AGENDA.

UH, I WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ADJOURN SECOND.

I HEARD SOMEBODY, SOMEBODY MOVED THAT, UH, IN SECONDED.

SO ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE INDICATE BY SAYING AYE.

AND RAISING YOUR HAND.

AYE, AYE.

GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS.

WE ARE NOW ADJOURNED.

THANK YOU ALL.