Sep 19, 2023 Resource Management

DO ANY STATE AGENCIES, ISDS, OR ANY OTHER ENTITIES WITH BONDING AUTHORITY OR OTHER REVENUE SOURCES FROM TAXPAYERS QUALIFY INTO THIS PROGRAM? ANY, UH, PROJECT THAT QUALIFIES UNDER OUR PROGRAM GUIDELINES ARE ENTITLED TO THE REBATE FUNDS, AND THAT INCLUDES, UH, THE STATE, AND THAT INCLUDES COMMERCIAL, UH, BUSINESSES.

AND IT INCLUDES, YOU KNOW, A, A NUMBER OF OTHER ENTITIES, BUT IT'S, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO MYSTERY.

IT'S ANY ENTITY THAT QUALIFIES AND THEREFORE HELPS US RETIRE OUR ENERGY EFFICIENCY GOALS.

UH, COMMISSIONER RUNN.

HEY, UM, QUESTION ABOUT THE, SO THIS, IT SOUNDS LIKE THE STATE COULD GET THE REBATE.

IS THAT, DOES IT HAVE TO BE LOCATED WITHIN THE CITY OF AUSTIN FOR THE STATE TO BE APPLICABLE? OR HOW DOES THAT WORK? YEAH, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE A, A, A BONAFIDE CUSTOMER OF AUSTIN ENERGY.

WHENEVER ANYONE IS READY OR FURTHER DISCUSSION.

HE, HE UNDERSTANDS.

I ASKED THIS QUESTION IN PARTICULAR BECAUSE THE, UH, DEVELOPMENT FOR THE STATE CAPITAL COMPLEX THAT WAS JUST RECENTLY COMPLETED, THEY QUALIFIED FOR ENERGY INCENTIVES UNDER THIS PROGRAM.

SO THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING THE QUESTION.

I DON'T SEE ANY OTHER HANDS, SO I WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION

[00:05:01]

I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE FROM, UH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS.

IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND, SECOND.

SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER BREN.

UH, WE WILL TAKE A ROLL CALL VOTE.

UH, WE'LL START WITH, UH, COMMISSIONER BREN IN FAVOR? OH, BY THE WAY, PEOPLE ONLINE YOU ARE, YOU DO HAVE YOUR CAMERAS ON.

GOOD.

SO I HAVE TO REMIND YOU, COMMISSIONER KARA GOTTI, APPROVE.

COMMISSIONER DAVIS? YES.

COMMISSIONER GARY? YES.

JOHNSON IS NOT HERE.

UH, HE IS THERE.

I JUST CAN'T SEE HIM.

THERE.

HE IS HIDING OVER THERE ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE.

I APOLOGIZE, SIR.

UH, NO WORRIES.

UH, I'M A YES.

UH, COMMISSIONER SAFFI IS NOT WITH US TONIGHT.

COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN IS NOT HERE WITH US TONIGHT.

COMMISSIONER, UH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS, AND THE CHAIR VOTES? NO.

AND SO THIS PASSES.

OH, WELL, HI THERE.

, UH, COMMISSIONER FARMER , IT'S NICE TO MEET YOU.

UH, WE CURRENTLY ARE VOTING ON ITEM NUMBER THREE IN THE AGENDA RELATED TO, UH, THE ISSUANCE OF REBATES FOR MULTIFAMILY AND COMMERCIAL CUSTOMER ENERGY EFFICIENCY MEASURES FOR THE COMING FISCAL YEAR FOR AUSTIN ENERGY.

UM, I KNOW YOU JUST WALKED INTO THIS BLIND.

WE APOLOGIZE, .

I APOLOGIZE FOR .

UM, I GUESS I ABSTAIN.

WE'LL, WE'LL RECORD AN ABSTENTION VOTE ON THERE.

WHEN YOU SIGN THIS PIECE OF PAPER OVER HERE SAYING THAT YOU SHOWED UP, YOU'LL ALSO NOTE THAT YOU'RE ABSTAINING ON ITEM NUMBER THREE OF THE AGENDA.

AND I SAW SOMETHING AS A TEXT MESSAGE COME ACROSS THE SCREEN THAT CAN BE DISTRACTING.

ANYWAY, SO THIS MOTION IS APPROVED.

SO WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON TO ITEM NUMBER FOUR IN OUR AGENDA.

YES.

WOULD IT BE OUT OF ORDER TO YOUR MICROPHONE, PAUL? WOULD IT BE OUT OF ORDER TO ASK, UH, THE NEW COMMISSIONER TO INTRODUCE HIMSELF AND, UM, WHAT, WHAT HE'S INTERESTED IN? MY THOUGHT WAS GOING AHEAD AND GET THROUGH AUTO NUMBER FOUR AND THEN CIRCLE BACK AND HAVE HIM INTRODUCE HIMSELF BEFORE STAFF UPDATES.

VERY GOOD.

APPROVING THE ISSUANCE OF FIVE-YEAR PERFORMANCE BASED INCENTIVE TO APPLIED MATERIALS FOR INSTALLATION OF A SOLAR ELECTRIC SYSTEM ON THEIR FACILITY.

ALRIGHT, SO MOVING ON IN OUR, OUR, UH, AGENDA, WE HAVE AUTO NUMBER FOUR RECOMMENDED

[4.Recommend approving the issuance of a five-year performance-based incentive (PBI) toApplied Materials, for the installation of solar electric systems on their facility, located at9700 E US 290 Hwy, Austin, TX 78724, in an amount not to exceed $2,310,800.]

UM, DO WE HAVE THAT UP ON THE SCREEN FOR PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO SEE? AND WHO IS GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT THIS ONE FOR US? RICHARD? STILL THERE? I'M, I CAN SPEAK TO IT AND IF THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS AGAIN, UH, VALERIE CAN SPEAK TO IT AS WELL.

STAFF CAN SPEAK TO IT.

SO THIS IS A, UM, AS YOU SAID, IT'S A FIVE YEAR PERFORMANCE BASED INCENTIVE ON WHAT WILL AMOUNT TO ONE OF OUR LARGEST, UM, INCENTIVES, UH, IN SOLAR IN, UH, FOR TWO, FOR FIVE YEARS.

NOT TO EXCEED $2.3 MILLION OVER THAT FIVE YEARS, BUT ONLY $408,000 IN THE FIRST YEAR.

AND THEN THE SUCCESSIVE YEARS WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, AS, AS YOU GO ALONG, NOT TO EXCEED THE TOTAL OF THE 2.3 OVER FIVE YEARS.

NOW, YOU MAY THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS TOTAL PROJECT IS 9.6 MILLION, SO ABOUT 24% OF THE COST IS BEING COVERED BY THE INCENTIVE THAT WE'RE PROVIDING HERE.

UM, AND THIS, UH, APPLIED MATERIALS HAS MET ALL THE PARAMETERS OF THIS, UH, PROGRAM.

AND OBVIOUSLY, UM, THIS, UH, PROJECT WILL ADD SUBSTANTIALLY TO OUR ABILITY TO MEET AND EXCEED OUR SOLAR OBJECTIVES, UH, IN, IN FORTHCOMING YEARS.

SO WE'RE VERY MUCH EXCITED ABOUT THIS PROJECT.

UM, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING MORE UNUSUAL ABOUT THE PROJECT.

UM, I COULD, YOU KNOW, I THINK IN THE MATERIALS IS ALL THE SOLAR, SOLAR SYSTEM DETAILS IN TERMS OF, UM, THE KILOWATT HOURS, ET CETERA FOR THE SYSTEM.

ANY QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONER BRIAN? CAN YOU DESCRIBE BRIEFLY WHAT THE PERFORMANCE INCENTIVE IS? DO THEY HAVE TO VERIFY THAT? I'M GONNA CALL VALERIE UP HERE FOR THAT.

UH, UM, THE CUSTOMER RENEWABLE SOLUTIONS.

HI, VALERIE PAXTON, ENVIRONMENTAL PROGRAM COORDINATOR, OR EXCUSE ME, PROGRAM MANAGER FOR,

[00:10:01]

SO I OVERSEE THE, UH, P B I PROGRAM, THE P B I PROGRAM.

UM, THOSE CREDITS ARE BASED ON THE SIZE OF THE SYSTEM.

SO THESE BEING LARGER SYSTEMS ARE GETTING, UH, YOU KNOW, A LOWER RATE THAN SAY, LIKE A SMALLER SYSTEM.

AND THEY ARE PAID OUT AS ON BILL CREDITS PER KILOWATT HOUR GENERATED.

SO SAY IF THIS SYSTEM PRODUCED LESS THAN WE EXPECTED, WE'RE GONNA PAY THEM LESS THAN THEY, YOU KNOW, THEN WE'RE, UH, WE HAVE HERE ON THE, UH, DOCUMENT.

UM, IF FOR SOME REASON THEY PAY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ABLE TO PRODUCE MORE.

WE HAVE A NOT TO EXCEED AMOUNT, SO I WOULDN'T OVERPAY THEM.

UM, AND YEAH, FOR THAT FIVE YEAR TERM, BUT IT, IT'S, IT'S PURELY PRODUCTION.

PRODUCTION BASED.

SO IF THEY'RE NOT GENERATING THE ENERGY, THEN WE'RE NOT PAYING THEM FOR IT.

BUT IF THEY ARE GENERATING IT, IT'S FANTASTIC.

THE SYSTEM IS FACING SOUTHWEST, WHICH IS THE BEST TIME.

IT'S WHEN OUR GRID NEEDS THE ENERGY THE MOST, UH, IN THOSE LATE AFTERNOON TIMES.

SO, UM, YEAH, WE'RE, WE'RE REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THE SYSTEM.

WILL THEY BE USING ALL OF THE ENERGY THEMSELVES, OR IS THE ANTICIPATED, ARE THEY ANTICIPATED TO SEND SOME BACK TO THE UTILITY GRID AS WELL? YEAH, FOR THE SIZE OF THE SYSTEM, AND I DUNNO IF I HAVE IT, UM, FOR, UH, MY ANTICIPATION IS THAT MOST OF THAT ENERGY WILL BE USED ON SITE.

IT'S TOUGH TO SAY.

I HAVEN'T SEEN IT MODELED LIKE ON A, ON A MONTHLY BASIS.

UH, BUT, UM, MY ANTICIPATION IS THAT MOST OF THAT ENERGY WILL BE USED ON SITE AND THAT WE'LL JUST BE REDUCING THEIR LOAD, UM, YOU KNOW.

, THANK YOU.

SURE THING.

ANYWAY, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS, WE HAVE A QUESTION FROM, UH, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.

UH, AND I WILL READ IT VERBATIM.

UH, IT'S REALLY A STATEMENT IN A QUESTION.

UH, I DON'T OBJECT TO APPROVAL OF THIS, BUT I ENCOURAGE AE AND AMAP TO LOOK AT HOSTING A MULTI MEGAWATT BATTERY AT THIS SITE TO COMPLIMENT THE SOLAR UNIT AND SUPPORT THE SYSTEM DURING EVENING SOLAR RAMP DOWN ANCILLARY SERVICE CALLS AND ERCOT GRID EVENTS.

WELL, UM, SHE WILL OBVIOUSLY BE CIRCLING BACK LATER TO HEAR THIS, SO WHAT WOULD BE YOUR ANSWER TO HER QUESTION? OH, I, I LOVE THAT QUESTION.

OR, AND THE STATEMENT AND THOUGHTS BEHIND IT.

THIS IS A, A, A VOLUNTARY, YOU KNOW, INSTALLATION THAT AMAT IS PURSUING.

SO WE OBVIOUSLY WE CAN'T MANDATE ANYTHING.

I, I WILL BE SPEAKING NEXT ABOUT THE WORK WE'RE DOING TO INTEGRATE, UM, YOU KNOW, THINGS LIKE BATTERIES INTO OUR CUSTOMER OWNED PROJECTS.

SO, UM, HOPEFULLY THE WORK THAT I, THAT I'LL BE TALKING ABOUT IN A MINUTE, UM, TALKS ABOUT OUR EFFORTS, YOU KNOW, TOWARDS, UH, INTEGRATED SYSTEMS THAT INCLUDE THINGS LIKE SOLAR AND BATTERY.

SO WE'RE, WE'RE VERY INTERESTED IN FACILITATING CUSTOMERS THAT WANT TO DO THAT.

UM, AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING AS I WORK WITH THE AMA, UM, FOLKS, I'LL, I'LL ASK THEM IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THEY'RE, THEY'RE INTERESTED IN DOING.

UM, OH SHOOT, E S G GOALS, YOU KNOW, TO REACH A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF RENEWABLES.

I HAD, UH, COMMISSIONER KARA GOTTI RAISE HER HAND.

SORRY, IT'S LIKE I HAVEN'T BEEN ON A COMPUTER IN A WHILE OR SOMETHING.

I APOLOGIZE.

UM, CAN Y'ALL HEAR ME? YES.

OKAY, THANKS.

UH, JUST REALLY QUICK, UH, ON THE P B I, I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IT.

THE MONEY THAT WE ARE, UM, I GUESS ARE WE LOANING THE MONEY OUT? ARE WE GONNA GET THIS MONEY BACK? IS IT GONNA COME BACK TO AUSTIN ENERGY? OR HOW DOES THAT WORK FINANCIALLY? YEAH.

THE P B I IS OUR INCENTIVE TO THEM TO HELP REDUCE THE COST OF INSTALLATION.

SO IT IS, IT'S A, A, A PAYMENT FOR THE, UM, YOU KNOW, THE KILOWATT HOURS, UNITS OF ENERGIES AS ARE PRODUCED.

SO IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE'RE EXPECTING TO RECEIVE BACK IN A SIMILAR PROGRAM FOR SMALLER BUSINESSES.

WE, UH, OUR, OUR CAPACITY BASED PROGRAM FOR NON-PROFITS AND SMALL BUSINESSES, UM, WE GIVE AN UPFRONT CHECK TO ENCOURAGE, UH, SO SOLAR INSTALLATION AND REDUCE THE COST OF INSTALLATION FOR LARGER COMPANIES LIKE APPLIED MATERIALS, INSTEAD OF GIVING THEM A CHECK UPFRONT AND SAY, HERE YOU GO.

UM, WE PUT A LITTLE MORE PRESSURE ON THEM, YOU KNOW, IT, IT'S ON THEM TO MAKE SURE THAT THEIR SYSTEM IS ACTUALLY PERFORMING.

SO, UM, IT, IT IS, YOU KNOW, IT, IT'S A, IT'S A TYPE OF REBATE.

IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE ARE ANTICIPATING TO GET BACK, BUT WE'RE OFFERING IT TO HELP REDUCE THE COST FOR APPLIED MATERIALS.

UH, ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THAT TYPICALLY HAVE, UM, YOU KNOW,

[00:15:01]

UM, AND WHEN WE TALK TO THEM, THEY'RE NOT ALWAYS INCENTIVIZED TO DO IT IN TEXAS BECAUSE THEY CAN SOMETIMES GET A HIGHER RETURN IN OTHER LOCATIONS.

SO OFFERING THINGS LIKE A P B I HERE IN TEXAS HELPS, UH, YOU KNOW, HELPS THEM ENCOURAGED, EXCUSE ME, HELPS ENCOURAGE THEM TO HAVE THESE PROJECTS HERE IN OUR TERRITORY AND IN OUR BUILDINGS.

I'M SURE I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS.

I'M JUST, I'M, IT'S GOING THROUGH MY HEAD RIGHT NOW, SO, AND MAYBE I'LL ASK LATER, BUT THANK YOU FOR THAT ANSWER.

ABSOLUTELY.

NATASHA, I SEE A PLUS TWO IN THE CORNER, THAT'S GREEN THERE.

ARE THERE OTHER PEOPLE WITH HANDS SPRAYS THAT I JUST CAN'T SEE? I THOUGHT IT WAS BONUS POINTS FOR ME.

, IS THAT, AM I NOT GETTING CREDIT HERE? ? UM, I HAVE A VERY NON-TECHNICAL QUESTION, JUST BECAUSE I THINK IN TERMS OF THINGS I CAN ACTUALLY VISUALIZE.

SO CAN YOU GIVE ME AN IDEA OF THE SIZE OF THE SOLAR ARRAY THAT THEY'RE PUTTING IN? UM, LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, PUTTING SOLAR ON YOUR ROOF AT YOUR HOUSE IS PROBABLY A $20,000 PROPOSITION.

GIVE ME AN IDEA HOW MUCH SPACE, ESSENTIALLY THIS IS, JUST SO I CAN KIND OF WRAP MY HEAD AROUND IT, PLEASE.

OH, YEAH.

UM, HOLD ON.

'CAUSE I DIDN'T GET A SQUARE FOOTAGE, UM, FOR THIS, AND I'M LOOKING TO SEE IF I HAVE THE EXACT, SO THE SYSTEM SIZE HERE, THE DC SYSTEM SIZE IS 5.4 MEGAWATTS.

UM, YOUR AVERAGE SOLAR PANEL THESE DAYS IS ABOUT MAYBE 500, 5 50 WATTS AND TAKES UP ABOUT 20 SQUARE FEET.

SO I DON'T, UH, HAVE THE EXACT SQUARE FOOTAGE WRITTEN OUT, BUT 500 WATTS, ABOUT 20 SQUARE FEET, AND THEN THIS IS, YOU KNOW, 5,452 WATTS.

SO IT'S, IT'S A SUBSTANTIAL FOOTPRINT FOR SURE.

UM, AS FAR AS THE, THE SPACE TAKING UP ON THE ROOF, WHICH IS ANOTHER GREAT THING TO HAVE A ROOFTOP INSTALLATION OF THAT SIZE.

I DID SEE ANOTHER HAND POP UP THERE.

NATASHA, MORE POINTS FOR ME.

OR A COMMENT OF SOME SORT, PERHAPS? COMMISSIONER KARADY.

YES.

HEY, I THOUGHT OF MY QUESTION.

I KNEW I HAD ANOTHER ONE.

UM, WITH THESE PROGRAMS AND THE INCENTIVES, IS THERE SOME SORT OF, I HATE TO USE THE WORDS CONSEQUENCE, MAYBE REQUIREMENTS.

IS THERE A REQUIREMENT OF OUTPUT OF KILOWATTS THAT THEY NEED TO PUT OUT? LIKE D UM, I GUESS DETERMINING WHATEVER SIZE THEY ARE, IS THERE A REQUIREMENT OF A CERTAIN SIZE KILOWATT THEY NEED TO BE PUTTING OUT, DISPLAYING OUT? HMM.

TO THAT END? DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? UH, A LITTLE BIT.

UH, LET'S SEE.

I'LL GIVE SOME ANSWERS TO IT AND IF IT'S NOT SUFFICIENT, LET, LET ME KNOW.

UM, WE DO HAVE, FOR, FOR ALL OF OUR SOLAR REBATE PROGRAMS, WE DO HAVE A PERFORMANCE, UH, UH, REQUIREMENT THAT, THAT IT HAS TO BE LIKE AN UNSHADED SYSTEM.

UH, THE TECHNICAL REQUIREMENTS NEEDS TO PERFORM, UH, AT LEAST 75% AS WELL AS THE MOST OPTIMAL SYSTEM THAT YOU CAN POSSIBLY GET.

SO THAT PREVENTS SOLAR PANELS, YOU KNOW, US INCENTIVIZING SOLAR PANELS THAT WOULD BE INSTALLED IN THE SHADE OR, OR, UM, MAYBE IN A, A POOR FACING DIRECTION WITH THE P B I PROGRAM.

HOWEVER, BECAUSE WE'RE ONLY PAYING THEM FOR ENERGY THAT THEY PRODUCE, UM, IT, IT REALLY PUTS THE ONUS ON THEM, YOU KNOW, IF THEY'RE INTERESTED IN, IN REAPING THE BENEFITS OF THE, OF THE INCENTIVE, THEY ONLY GET IT IF THEY MAKE SURE THAT THE SYSTEM CONTINUES TO PRODUCE THEIR, THEIR PENALTY.

IF THE SYSTEM DOESN'T PRODUCE, THEY WON'T GET, YOU KNOW, THEY WON'T RECEIVE THE P B I AND WHEN THAT FIVE YEAR TIME PERIOD IS OVER, THEY'RE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR IT ANYMORE.

SO THEY'LL BE MISSING OUT.

PERFECT.

YOU ANSWERED THAT PERFECTLY.

YES, THANKS.

HAPPY TO, YEAH, WE'RE REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THIS PROJECT.

SO ANY QUESTIONS YOU GUYS HAVE ABOUT IT? UM, YEAH.

ARE THERE ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION? IF NOT, I'M HAPPY TO ENTERTAIN A MOTION I MOVE TO APPROVE THIS ITEM.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BRINGING TO US.

COMMISSIONER JOHNSON? YES.

MOTION.

MOTION HAS BEEN MADE TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER GARY.

DO I HAVE A SECOND? I SECOND.

COMMISSIONER KARA GOTTI IN WITH THE SECOND.

THIS WILL BE A ROLL CALL VOTE.

SO IF EVERYBODY CAN TURN ON YOUR CAMERAS, UH, WE'LL START.

COMMISSIONER BREN.

COMMISSIONER KARA GOTTI.

[00:20:01]

UH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS? YES.

COMMISSIONER STONE VOTES? YES.

SO THAT PASSES ON A SEVEN ZERO VOTE.

I KEEP FORGETTING YOU.

I APOLOGIZE.

I'M NOT USED TO YOU YET.

I'M YOUR CLIENTS .

YOU ARE KIND OF, UH, COMMISSIONER FARMER? YES.

COMMISSIONER FARMER VOTES.

YES.

SO THAT WOULD BE AN EIGHT.

DID I COUNT THAT RIGHT, NATASHA? OKAY.

TO AN EIGHT ZERO VOTE.

ALRIGHT, MOVING ON.

[Additional Item]

WE'RE GOING TO BACKTRACK A LITTLE BIT.

UM, WE'RE GOING TO, UH, INTRODUCE OUR, OUR NEWEST, UH, COMMISSIONER, COMMISSIONER, UH, FARMER WHO'S JUST JOINED US, JUST FRESHLY MINTED BY THE CITY CLERK'S OFFICE TO TAKE JUST A MOMENT TO INTRODUCE HIMSELF, LET PEOPLE KNOW PERHAPS WHAT HIS AREAS OF INTEREST ARE, WHATEVER FLOATS YOUR BOAT.

THANKS.

UM, MY NAME'S TREY FARMER.

I'M AN ARCHITECT, UH, FOCUSED ON SUSTAINABILITY, UH, ENERGY EFFICIENCY, UM, PASSIVE HOUSE DESIGN.

UM, AND I GEEK OUT ON GRID, UH, ENERGY TRANSITION AS WELL.

EXCITED TO BE HERE.

MOVING ALONG IN THE AGENDA, WE'LL GO TO ONTO STAFF BRIEFINGS.

WE HAVE, UH, DISTRIBUTED ENERGY RESOURCES FROM AUSTIN ENERGY TO COME AND GIVE US A PRESENTATION.

IT LOOKS LIKE RICHARD IS DRAWN THE SHORT STRAW ONCE AGAIN.

NO, I, I'M JUST GOING TO INTRO AND THEN, OH, OKAY.

UM, , VALERIE IS GOING TO PRESENT.

UM, BUT WHERE ARE WE? OKAY.

FOR THE BENEFITS OF SOLAR ENERGY, UM, AND NOT NECESSARILY FOR GRID STORED POWER.

SO, UM, TODAY'S PRESENTATION IS ON DISTRIBUTED ENERGY RESOURCES, AND WE HAVE THREE INNOVATIONS THAT, UH, WE WANT TO SHARE WITH YOU.

UH, THESE ARE ALL IN THE PROCESS OF HAVING BEEN VERY RECENTLY IMPLEMENTED.

UM, YOU KNOW, OUR CUSTOMERS ARE INTERESTED IN USING AND ACCESSING ENERGY AND STORAGE IN DIFFERENT WAYS.

AND SO THESE INNOVATIONS HAVE THE ADDED BENEFIT OF MAKING US EASIER WITH WHOM TO DO BUSINESS AND STREAMLINING OUR OPERATIONS, REDUCING LEAD TIMES FOR CUSTOMERS TO BENEFIT FROM THE THREE, UH, FROM THE DIFFERENT TECHNOLOGIES YOU'RE GONNA SEE REPRESENTED HERE TODAY.

SO WITH THAT, I WILL TURN IT OVER TO VALERIE.

THANK YOU, RICHARD.

UH, I'M STANDING IN TODAY FOR TIM HARVEY, WHO WAS AT THE CIPA CONFERENCE, WHICH IS ON THE CUTTING EDGE OF INTEGRATING, UH, RENEWABLE AND, UH, DISTRIBUTED RESOURCES.

UM, AND HE UNFORTUNATELY GOT COVID.

SO, UH, I'M HERE TO TALK ABOUT THE WORK THAT HE HAS BEEN PUSHING AND, UH, LEADING AS FAR AS, UM, SOME REALLY ON THE GROUND LEVEL, UM, INTEGRATION.

SO IF, IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT LIGHTS YOUR LIGHTS, YOUR BRAIN UP, THIS PRESENTATION IS FOR YOU.

AND IF NOT, I'M SORRY, , BUT HERE WE GO.

UM, ONE THING THAT, UH, WE CAN'T DENY IS THAT, UH, IT'S NOT JUST SOLAR ANYMORE.

SYSTEMS ARE GETTING MORE COMPLEX.

WE'RE ALL LOOKING FORWARD TO HAVING INCREASED FUNCTIONALITY AND CAPABILITY.

AND ALONG THAT, UH, OUR ROLE IN AUSTIN ENERGY TO HELP ALSO MAKE SURE, UM, INCREASE SAFETY AND, AND HOPEFULLY PLAY A PART IN LOWERING THE COSTS.

UM, TO THAT END, WE STILL DO NEED TO BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE COSTS, UM, AND OUR BILLING SYSTEM AS WELL.

UM, YOU GUYS ARE PROBABLY AWARE THAT ANY SYSTEM IN AUSTIN ENERGY INSTALLED WITH A SOLAR METER AND ALSO A BILLION METER, THE SOLAR METER ALLOWS US TO TRACK BETTER THAN ALMOST ANY OTHER UTILITY, UH, SOLAR PRODUCTION THAT'S GENERATED BY OUR CUSTOMER, UM, INSTALLATIONS.

SO THESE ARE ALL TRACKING CUSTOMER OWNED INSTALLATIONS, UH, AS YOU CAN TELL BY THE RESIDENTS THERE.

THIS ALSO APPLIES TO COMMERCIAL, UM, INSTALLATIONS AS WELL.

UH, THIS HAS HELPED US IN SO MANY WAYS, UH, UNDERSTAND HOW SOLAR AND OUR CUSTOMER ON SOLAR IS AFFECTING THE GRID, HOW LOCAL SOLAR IS AFFECTING THE GRID.

UM, BUT IT WAS MAKING THINGS TRICKY WHEN IT COMES TO INTEGRATING BATTERIES BECAUSE OUR SOLAR METER WAS ONLY SET UP IN THE BILLING SYSTEM TO READ IN ONE DIRECTION, AND THAT'S THE SOLAR COMING THROUGH THE METER AND, AND GOING TO THE HOME AND GOING TO THE GRID.

SO IN ORDER TO BE MORE ADAPTABLE TO DIFFERENT CONFIGURATIONS FOR STORAGE, ONE OF OUR BIG CONCERNS IS THAT WE DON'T WANT BATTERIES POSSIBLY INSTALLED BEHIND THE SOLAR METER, WHERE SOMETIMES THEY LIKE TO GO.

WE DON'T WANT THEM TO BE CHARGED BY THE GRID AND THEN BE SENDING ENERGY BACK ACROSS THAT SOLAR METER AND GETTING THE SOLAR VALUE, UM, VALUE OF SOLAR BILL CREDIT, WHICH IS SPECIFICALLY FORMULATED, UM, TO ACCOUNT

[00:25:01]

THAT'S, THAT'S SET ACROSS THE METER.

SO ONE OF THE FIRST STEPS WE HAD TO DO TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE, UM, YOU KNOW, READY TO RUN WITH, UH, VARIOUS CONFIGURATIONS FOR, UM, HOME AND, AND EVEN BUSINESS STORAGE AND BACKUP POWER, IS TO DO AN ENHANCEMENT TO OUR BILLING SYSTEM THAT ALLOWS THAT SOLAR METER TO READ BIDIRECTIONALLY.

UM, TO GET A LITTLE WONKY HERE, THAT ALLOWS US TO, UM, UH, PERMIT BOTH AC COUPLED AND DC COUPLED, UH, BATTERY STORAGE, UH, SYSTEMS. UM, THEY'RE BOTH ON THE MARKET, UH, AND SOMETIMES CUSTOMERS LIKE TO DO DC COUPLED SYSTEMS. UM, AND SO WE HAVE THIS BILLING ENHANCEMENT.

AND AT THIS POINT, UH, AS YOU CAN SEE IN THIS DIAGRAM, A BATTERY CAN BE, UH, INSTALLED BEHIND THE SOLAR METER, WHEREAS BEFORE, UM, IT NEEDED TO BE, NO MATTER WHERE IT WAS PHYSICALLY LOCATED, IT NEEDED TO BE ELECTRONICALLY INTERCONNECTED BETWEEN THE SOLAR AND THE BILLING METER.

SO THIS HAS, UH, ALLOWED A LOT MORE FLEXIBILITY, UH, FOR CUSTOMER INSTALLATIONS.

UM, AND MEANWHILE LETTING US TRACK GRID ENERGY APPROPRIATELY, AND ALSO TRACK THE SOLAR PRODUCTION APPROPRIATELY AS WELL, SO THAT OUR CUSTOMERS ARE RECEIVING APPROPRIATE CREDIT.

SO STEP ONE, BILLING SYSTEM ENHANCEMENT.

IF WE MOVE TO THE NEXT SLIDE, WE CAN TALK ABOUT, UM, ONE OF THE REASONS, UH, THAT WE PURSUED THAT BILLING ENHANCEMENT IS THAT, UH, STORAGE SYSTEMS SUCH AS THE TESLA POWERWALL PLUS, UM, REQUIRED TO BE PROPERLY INSTALLED TO BE INSTALLED ON THE SOLAR SIDE OF THE METER.

SO OUR BILLING ENHANCEMENT ALLOWED EQUIPMENT LIKE THE POWER ROLL PLUS TO BE INSTALLED THAT WAY.

UM, BECAUSE WE DON'T SKIP A BEAT.

WE ALSO STARTED TESTING ON THE METER COLLAR, UH, DISCONNECT.

SO THIS IS A, YOU'LL SEE A PICTURE OF IT OVER THERE ON THE LEFT.

UM, THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF A UTILITY METER, WHICH IS OUR EQUIPMENT.

AND THEN A METER COLLAR IS MANUFACTURER EQUIPMENT NOT OWNED BY AUSTIN ENERGY, THAT SOME MANUFACTURERS AND CUSTOMERS ARE WANTING US TO INTEGRATE IN OUR METER.

UM, AS AN ISOLATION DEVICE.

IT'S VERY IMPORTANT FOR BACKUP SYSTEMS THAT THEY BE, FOR HOME BACKUP SYSTEMS THAT THEY BE ABLE TO ISOLATE, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY MAKING THE MICROGRIDS.

UM, THEY NEED TO ISOLATE SO THAT THEY CAN FUNCTION AND THEY NEED TO ISOLATE SO THAT IF WE'RE WORKING ON RESTORING PART OF THE GRID, NOBODY GETS ELECTROCUTED.

UM, 'CAUSE WE DON'T LIKE THAT.

SO, UM, THIS, UH, METER COLLAR IS A, A REALLY COST EFFECTIVE WAY OF INSTALLING, UM, AN ISOLATING DEVICE, UH, WITHOUT THE METER COLLAR, YOU WOULD NEED TO POSSIBLY WIRE CRITICAL LOADS, UH, REQUIRES A LOT OF EXTRA, UM, EXTRA ELECTRICAL WORK MOVING AND REWIRING.

UM, THAT'S TIME INTENSIVE, LABOR INTENSIVE, MATERIAL INTENSIVE, UH, AND REQUIRES LONGER SHUTDOWNS.

UM, SOMETIMES REPEATED TRIPS FROM THE UTILITY TO GET THINGS INSTALLED.

UM, AND OF COURSE, ANYONE WHO'S TAKING THE STEPS TO, UH, INSTALL SOLAR AND TO MAKE THEIR HOUSE MORE RESILIENT, UH, THEY DON'T WANNA HAVE TO SPEND A LOT OF TIME GOING THROUGH UTILITY PROCESSES TO GET THEM UP AND RUNNING.

SO, UM, THERE'S A LOT OF HOPE BEHIND THIS CALLER THAT ALLOWS, UH, THE SYSTEM TO ISOLATE WITHOUT HAVING TO HAVE AN AUTOMATIC TRANSFER SWITCH WITHOUT HAVING TO SEPARATELY WIRE BACK UPLOADS.

UM, WE DIDN'T JUST TAKE IT OFF THE SHELF AND ACCEPT IT.

WE WENT THROUGH A PROCESS WHERE WE NEEDED TO TEST IT, UH, WHICH WE'LL TALK ABOUT IN THE NEXT SLIDE.

UM, WE DEVELOPED A WORKING AGREEMENT WITH TESLA.

UH, WE CHOSE FIVE HOUSES AROUND THE AUSTIN AREA WHERE WE INSTALLED THESE METER COLLARS.

UH, WE HAD SEVERAL THINGS WE WERE LOOKING OUT FOR.

WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL OF OUR STAFF WAS TRAINED.

AGAIN, BECAUSE THIS IS, YOU KNOW, A, A MANUFACTURER'S EQUIPMENT, A CUSTOMER'S EQUIPMENT THAT WE'RE PUTTING ON OUR METERS, WE NEEDED TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR METERING CREW WOULD KNOW WHAT TO DO WHEN THEY CAME ACROSS ONE.

UM, WE NEEDED TO MAKE SURE THAT IT, IT PERFORMED AS IT SHOULD.

UM, AND, UH, AND WE, WE NEEDED TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR PERMITTING PROCESSES, UH, AND, AND THE OTHER THINGS THAT WE DO TO FACILITATE THE INSTALLATION OF, OF RENEWABLES AND BACKUP SOURCES, UH, WOULD ALL MESH WITH THE METER COLLAR.

SO, UH, WE WENT THROUGH, UM, A, UH, A TEST PHASE WITH THESE FIVE HOUSES.

WE VISITED EACH OF THEM.

WE WENT ON SITE TO WATCH THE METER COLLARS BEING INSTALLED.

AND THEN WE ALSO, UH, DID SOME TESTING, WHICH YOU CAN SEE FROM THE NEXT SLIDE, UM, TO MAKE SURE THAT THE DEVICE PERFORMED AS AS, AS IT SHOULD.

AND SO THAT INCLUDES MAKING SURE THAT THE SYSTEM IS FULLY ISOLATED, THAT THE METER COLLAR DOES ITS JOB.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THAT IT ISOLATES THE HOUSE FROM THE GRID AGAIN, SO IT DOESN'T, UM, CAUSE, UH, DANGER TO OUR LINE WORKERS IN THE CASE OF AN OUTAGE.

WE ALSO TOOK THE STEPS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE, THE QUALITY OF THE POWER, UH, THAT THE HOMEOWNERS WERE GETTING, UM, WAS

[00:30:01]

SUITABLE.

SO WE CHECKED HARMONICS, UM, AND MADE SURE THAT THE POWER FACTOR AND EVERYTHING WAS, UM, UM, YOU KNOW, WITHIN LINE AND, AND IN GOOD RANGE.

SO WE DID THAT EXTRA STEP AND, UH, AND THEN OF COURSE WE ALSO TRACKED TO MAKE SURE THAT, THAT THINGS WERE BILLING APPROPRIATELY AS WELL.

UM, SO WE DID THIS FOR, FOR THE FIVE TEST SITES.

UM, AND AFTER MAKING SURE THAT, THAT THE CALLER WAS WORKING AS IT SHOULD, THAT OUR STAFF WAS TRAINED UP AS THEY SHOULD BE, UM, THAT THERE WASN'T ANY HARM TO THE GRID OR TO THE HOME, THEN, UH, WE TOOK OUR NEXT STEPS TO, UH, ADD THIS INTO OUR DESIGN CRITERIA AND, UM, DISTRIBUTION INTERCONNECTED GUIDE, WHICH IS THE NEXT SLIDE.

UM, SO THEN CAME THE PAPERWORK, UH, AND WE MADE THE NECESSARY UPDATES.

UM, SORRY, I KEEP LOOKING OVER THERE AND I HAVE MY NOTES RIGHT HERE.

UM, SO, UH, THE THREE ITEMS THAT WE COVERED, THE DC COUPLING, THE STORAGE BEHIND THE METER, THE METER DISCONNECT, UM, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THOSE ARE IN LINE WITH THE, THE CURRENTLY AVAILABLE DISTRIBUTION GUIDE AND THE DESIGN CRITERIA MANUAL.

UM, SO NOTHING IS PREVENTING THEM FROM MOVING FORWARD AND BEING INSTALLED BY OUR CUSTOMERS.

UM, LET'S SEE.

SO THAT WRAPS UP THAT, AND THEN WE HAVE ONE LITTLE SORT OF TEASER FOR YOU ALL FOR WITH THE LAST SLIDE, UM, VEHICLE TO HOME, IF YOU GUYS MAY HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT.

WHILE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CUTTING EDGE D E R.

UM, AT THIS POINT WE HAVE TWO, UH, VEHICLE TO HOME INSTALLATIONS.

SO NOT VEHICLE TO GRID JUST YET, BUT VEHICLE TO HOME, MEANING YOU COULD, UH, PLUG YOUR CAR IN AND POWER THE HOME.

UM, THE FORD F ONE 50, UH, LIGHTNING WAS OUR, OUR FIRST ONE.

IT CAN PROVIDE A WHOLE HOME BACKUP EVEN FOR AUSTIN, UH, ENERGY HOMES, UH, WITH OUR AC UM, IN THIS CASE, WE DID NOT USE THE METER COLLAR, BUT YOU KNOW, AS, AS WE'RE LOOKING AT THE PEN POTENTIAL CAPABILITIES FOR METER COLLAR, IT MAY ALSO WORK FOR, UM, UH, EV CHARGING AS WELL AND, AND EV UH, TO HOME CAPABILITIES AS WELL, REDUCING THE INSTALLATION COSTS FOR THOSE.

UM, UH, A FEW NOTES ON, ON THE EXCITING VEHICLE TO HOME INSTALLATIONS.

UH, THESE INSTALLATIONS.

YEAH, THEY WERE INSTALLED RIGHT INTO THE ELECTRICAL PANEL.

UM, THERE'S STILL A BIT TO WORK THROUGH, SO, UH, UM, YOU KNOW, DON'T EXPECT EVERY NEIGHBOR TO HAVE THESE JUST YET, BUT, BUT WE'RE DEFINITELY, UM, YOU KNOW, BOOTS ON THE ROAD MAKING SURE THAT WE CAN FACILITATE, UH, THESE INSTALLATIONS.

AND THAT, THAT WRAPS UP THE PRESENTATION.

IF YOU GUYS HAD ANY QUESTIONS, UH, COMMISSIONER ROBBINS, VICE CHAIR.

UM, I'LL GET OVER IT.

UH, JUST A COUPLE, UH, QUESTIONS.

ARE THE VEHICLES COVERED UNDER WARRANTY IF THEY DO THIS? YEAH, THAT'S A VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION.

UH, FOR THE F ONE 50, IT IS, AND TO YOUR POINT, NOT ALL ELECTRIC VEHICLES TODAY ARE, ARE WARRANTIED TO BACK UP A HOME.

SO THAT IS, UH, THAT WAS NOT IN THE FIRST PHASE OF ELECTRIC VEHICLES, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT THAT VEHICLE MANUFACTURERS ARE TAKING MORE SERIOUSLY.

AND THERE ARE A FEW MODELS.

SO IF YOU'RE LOOKING TO BACK UP YOUR HOME WITH YOUR VEHICLE, DEFINITELY CHECK THEIR WARRANTY FIRST AND MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T VOID.

IT ALSO, I APOLOGIZE, BUT PLEASE REINFORCE WHAT A METER COLLAR IS.

AN AUTOMATIC TRANSFER SWITCH, YOU CAN KIND OF IMAGINE IT'S A SWITCH.

CAN WE GO BACK TO THAT SLIDE? THAT'S A VERY FAIR QUESTION.

UM, AND I, I APPRECIATE THAT BECAUSE I DIDN'T GO INTO THAT DIAGRAM VERY, UM, UH, VERY, UH, WITH MUCH DETAIL, IF WE'RE ABLE TO PULL THAT SLIDE BACK UP, UM, WHAT YOU'LL SEE, YOU'LL SEE THE METER CAN, UM, AND THEN YOU'LL SEE THE, UH, THE METER AS WELL.

UM, AND ALSO THE, UH, THE, THE HOUSING, SO THE, THE METER COLLAR FITS IN THERE IN ORDER TO ISOLATE THE, THE DEVICE.

BUT ACTUALLY THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT THE METER COLLAR IS THE COMMUNICATION LINE, WHICH ISN'T IN THIS DIAGRAM.

SO THE WAY THAT A TRADITIONAL SYSTEM WOULD BE ISOLATED WOULD BE IF IT HAD AN AUTOMATIC TRANSFER SWITCH OR POSSIBLY A MANUAL TRANSFER SWITCH.

A MANUAL TRANSFER SWITCH IS SOMETHING THAT IF YOU HAD A, A GENERATOR AT HOME, UH, AND, AND YOU WANTED TO USE IT, YOU WOULD ACTUALLY PULL IT MANUALLY, RIGHT? AN AUTOMATIC TRANSFER SWITCH IS ABLE TO TELL WHEN THE GRID GOES OUT, AND THEN IT'S ABLE TO ISOLATE.

SO WHAT IT DOES IS SEVERS THE CONNECTION TO THE GRID SO THAT ANY BACKUP POWER GOING ON IN THE HOME, AGAIN, DOESN'T INJURE OUR LINE WORKERS DOESN'T SEND IT OUTSIDE OF THE, THE MICROGRID THAT'S NOW THE HOME.

[00:35:01]

YOU KNOW, YOU CAN IMAGINE A SPRING LOADED SWITCH IF YOU WANT.

POWER GOES OUT, OOP, IT TAKES CARE OF ITSELF PRETTY SEAMLESSLY.

A METER COLLAR DOES BASICALLY THE SAME THING, BUT WHEREAS A SWITCH, UH, MAY BE TRIGGERED MORE MECHANICALLY, THIS METER COLLAR IS ACTUALLY CONNECTED TO A CONTROL SYSTEM, IN THIS CASE, A TESLA CONTROL SYSTEM.

ITS SENSES WHAT'S GOING ON, AND IT SENDS A SIGNAL TO THE METER COLLAR TO, UM, TO GO AHEAD AND SHUT DOWN.

SO THERE'S A LOT MORE DIGITAL CONTROLS HAPPENING WITH THE METER COLLAR THAN THERE WOULD BE WITH LIKE AN OLD FASHIONED A T S AN AUTOMATIC TRANSFER SWITCH, WHICH HAS BEEN AROUND FOR FOREVER.

UM, SO, SO THE METER COLLAR ACTUALLY SITS IN THERE, UM, AND, AND IS ABLE TO, UH, YOU KNOW, TO SEVER THE POWER WHEN NEEDED VERSUS LIKE AN AUTOMATIC TRANSFER SWITCH OR A MANUAL SWITCH WHEN I DO THIS.

COMMISSIONER KARA GOTTI.

THANK YOU FOR THIS PRESENTATION.

IT'S VERY INFORMATIVE.

UM, MY QUESTION, UH, MIGHT LEAD INTO ANOTHER QUESTION.

ARE THESE GOING TO BE, I MEAN, HOW ARE THESE GONNA BE INSTALLED? I GUESS NOT HOW THEY'RE GOING TO BE INSTALLED, BUT WHO IS GOING TO INSTALL THEM? WHOSE HOUSES ARE THESE GONNA BE ON? YEAH, SO OUR TESTING THESE PRODUCTS AND GETTING REALLY INVOLVED IN THAT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT WORKS WELL WITH, WITH OUR EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR CREWS ARE SAFE.

UM, SO WE GOT VERY INVOLVED IN IT, BUT, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE INSTALLATION OF THESE PRODUCTS, UM, IT WILL BE YOUR TYPICAL, YOU KNOW, SOLAR CONTRACTOR OR, OR BATTERY CONTRACTOR.

UM, THEY'LL BE THE ONES INSTALLING THIS.

SO, SO INSTEAD OF, OF REROUTE ROUTING LOADS IN AN ELECTRICAL PANEL AND, UM, AND THEN PUTTING THE AUTOMATIC TRANSFER SWITCH IN THAT AREA, INSTEAD, THEY'LL BE ABLE TO TERMINATE IT RIGHT AFTER THE METER FOR WHOLE HOME, UH, BACKUP.

AND, AND, AND PART OF THE NEED FOR THIS IS, IS A DESIRE FOR A WHOLE HOME BACKUP AS WELL.

UM, BUT THAT, UM, THEY'LL BE THE ONES INSTALLING IT, UH, AS PART OF, UH, YOU KNOW, WHEN CUSTOMERS PURCHASE THEIR, THEIR, UM, SYSTEMS. AND THE IDEA IS THAT IT WILL REDUCE THE COST TO INSTALL.

SO IT, IT'S, IT'S A GREAT WAY TO LOWER THE INSTALLATION COSTS.

UM, ALL OF THAT EXTRA ELECTRICAL WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE, UH, THAT IT'S IN THE BACKGROUND AND THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T SEE WHEN THEY, WHEN THEY LOOK AT THE SHINY TESLA WALL, UM, IT, IT SAVES OUR, OUR ELECTRICIANS A LOT OF TIME.

SO AUSTIN ENERGY WON'T BE DOING IT, IT'S MORE ON THE CUSTOMER SIDE OF DOING IT, RIGHT? NOT AUSTIN ENERGY? CORRECT.

IT'S REPLACING, UH, THE TRANSFER SWITCH WOULD ALSO TYPICALLY BE, WHICH THE ISOLATION DEVICE IS THE CUSTOMER OWNED, UH, EQUIPMENT.

SO IT'S, IT'S REPLACING CUSTOMER ON EQUIPMENT, BUT IT IS INTERESTING, AND THE REASON WHY YOUR QUESTION MAKES TOTAL SENSE IS BECAUSE WE'RE ALLOWING IT TO BE, YOU KNOW, SORT OF EMBEDDED IN OUR EQUIPMENT, UH, WHICH IS, WHICH IS WHY, UM, WHY IT TOOK ALL THE EXTRA TESTING AND WHY WE GOT SO INVOLVED.

BUT, UM, SO IT'S JUST EVERYTHING'S BECOMING MORE COMPLEX, MORE INTEGRATED.

UH, WE'RE BLURRING THE LINES, NOT REALLY, BUT, SO THE CUSTOMER WILL STILL OWN IT THEN, RIGHT? NOT AUSTIN ENERGY, I GUESS.

SO IF ANYTHING GOES WRONG, THE CUSTOMER'S STILL RESPONSIBLE FOR FIXING.

PART OF, PART OF OUR, OUR, OUR TALKS WITH, WITH TESLA AND PART OF OUR TESTING OF COURSE WAS TO MAKE SURE THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, IN THE EVENT THAT SOMETHING, SOMETHING SHOULD HAPPEN EITHER WITH OUR EQUIPMENT OR WITH THE METER COLLAR, THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT, UH, THE APPROPRIATE PARTY WOULD, UH, KNOW HOW TO WORK WITH THE OTHER PARTY.

BUT IT IS, IT IS CUSTOMER OWNED EQUIPMENT.

I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE.

'CAUSE SOMETIMES THOSE LINES DO GET BLURRED.

IT'S LIKE, NO, YOU NEED TO CALL THAT PERSON.

NO, YOU NEED TO CALL AUSTIN ENERGY, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

SO I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE.

AND THEN ON THE, UH, I GUESS THE VEHICLE BEING SORT OF LIKE A, UM, ENERGY INPUT, DID YOU, WAS THAT 10 KILOWATTS? IS THAT WHAT IT SAID THAT IT WOULD PRODUCE BACK TO THE HOME? OH, I HAVE TO LOOK AT THE SPECS AGAIN.

UM, YOU GO ON THAT PICTURE, ON THAT SLIDE, IF I WAS READING THAT CORRECTLY.

YEAH, 10 KILOWATTS DC UM, IS WHAT IT WAS SHOWING FROM THE CHARGER TO THE HOME.

SO PRETTY GOOD, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE POWERWALLS THERE.

COOL.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU AGAIN FOR THE PRESENTATION AND THANKS FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTION.

ABSOLUTELY.

COMMISSIONER FARMER, THANK, THANK YOU.

THIS IS GREAT.

UM, DO EITHER OF THESE, UH, LIKE ARE YOU GUYS ABLE TO CONTROL EITHER OF THESE IN TERMS OF, UH, LIKE VIRTUAL POWER PLANT OR GRID SMOOTHING, OR IS THAT LIKE NEXT STEPS? THAT IS A VERY EXCITING QUESTION, BUT YEAH, THOSE ARE NEXT, NEXT STEPS SORTS OF THINGS.

THIS IS REALLY US WORKING JUST ON, ON INTEGRATION CODE AND THAT SORT OF STUFF, BUT WE'RE, YEAH, WE'RE WALKING IN THAT DIRECTION FOR SURE.

[00:40:04]

COMMISSIONER BURIN.

HI.

THANKS FOR THE PRESENTATION.

UM, IT SOUNDS LIKE, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE UTILITY METER AND THE SOLAR METER ARE BOTH, UM, OPERATED OR INSTALLED BY AUSTIN ENERGY.

IS THAT ACCURATE? THE METERS ARE OURS.

THE, UM, METER CANS ARE INSTALLED BY THE CUSTOMER.

AND IS THAT TYPICAL OF KIND OF UTILITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY? LIKE, IS THAT STANDARD PRACTICE? WE ARE VERY UNIQUE IN OUR, OUR VALUE OF SOLAR PROGRAM AND HOW WE CREDIT OUR CUSTOMERS.

SO IT IS, IT IS A LITTLE UNIQUE TO US.

, CAN YOU HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHY IT'S UNIQUE AND, UH, KINDA WHAT THAT MEANS? YEAH, I THINK MINNESOTA OR MICHIGAN MAY ALSO HAVE, UH, VALUE OF SOLAR, BUT IT'S WHERE WE'VE REALLY LOOKED TO, UM, UH, ASSESS THE, THE AVOIDED COSTS AND WHAT THE, I MEAN, AS THE NAME IS, WHAT THE VALUE OF SOLAR IS, UH, WHEN IT'S BEING PRODUCED HERE IN AUSTIN ENERGY, UM, AND MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE CREDITING OUR CUSTOMERS FOR THEIR SOLAR GENERATION, UM, AVOIDING SOME OF THE PITFALLS OF NET METERING OF, OF OVER CREDITING OR UTILITY DEATH SPIRAL, OR WHAT HAVE YOU.

UM, SO YEAH, THERE'S, UH, IT, IT STARTED IN 2012, UM, UH, IS WHEN WE STARTED DOING, UH, VALUE OF SOLAR.

UM, YEAH.

AND AS I SAID, IT GIVES US A LOT OF INSIGHT INTO SOLAR GENERATION AND HOW IT'S INTERACTING WITH OUR GRID THAN WE WOULD HAVE OTHERWISE.

UM, AND THEN IT ALSO ALLOWS US TO, YOU KNOW, CREDIT OUR CUSTOMERS FOR A HUNDRED PERCENT OF THEIR GENERATION, UM, AT THAT, THAT AVOIDED COST, PLUS THE SOCIETAL BENEFIT OF, UH, 2.30 CENTS FOR AVOIDED SOCIAL COST OF CARBON.

UM, SO, SO WHEN WE'RE NOT JUST PAYING FOR THEM FOR THE AVOIDED COST, WE'RE ALSO, UH, GIVING THEM AN ENVIRONMENTAL INCENTIVE AS APPROVED BY COUNCIL, UM, FOR, FOR, UH, FOR THEIR SERVICE.

IN OUR AGENDA, WE'RE GOING ON TO, UH, ITEM NUMBER FIVE.

IS THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION? NONE.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

WE APPRECIATE IT.

THANK YOU EVERYONE.

MOVING ON

[5. Discussion on repurposing the GreenChoice Program. (Sponsors: Robbins, Stone)WORKING GROUP UPDATES 6. Update from the Texas Gas Service Working Group.]

UH, WE KIND OF SET UP THIS DISCUSSION AT THE LAST MEETING BY HAVING AUSTIN GREEN CHOICE, KIND OF GIVE THEIR OVERVIEW AS TO HOW THE PROGRAM WORKS, WHAT ITS ORIGINAL INTENT WAS, AND, UH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS HAS, UH, HAS, UH, UH, AN IDEA OF SOMETHING HE WOULD LIKE THE COMMISSION TO CONSIDER.

IT WOULD PROBABLY REQUIRE A LITTLE BIT OF FLESHING OUT.

AND SO HE IS GOING TO TAKE A FEW MINUTES TO KIND OF WALK YOU THROUGH WHAT, WHAT HE BELIEVES A VISION COULD BE FOR RE RE-IMAGINING OF THE GREEN CHOICE PROGRAM.

SO I WILL YIELD THE FLOOR TO COM.

UH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS AND I HAVE BEEN INSTRUCTED TO BE AS CONCISE AS I POSSIBLY CAN, SO I WILL BE COMMISSION GREEN CHOICE STARTED IN TWO TH UH, STARTED IN 2001 TO ALLOW CUSTOMERS TO VIRTUALLY BUY 100% GREEN POWER.

CURRENTLY, UH, CUSTOMERS PAY THREE QUARTERS OF A PENNY PER KILOWATT HOUR MORE, AND THAT'S ABOUT A 6% INCREASE IN THE TOTAL RESIDENTIAL BILL.

UH, THE TOTAL SALES IN 2022 WERE 984 MILLION KILOWATT HOURS, WHICH IS ABOUT 7% OF AUSTIN ENERGY'S TOTAL CONSUMPTION.

IT AMOUNTS TO ABOUT SEVEN POINT MIL, $7.4 MILLION A YEAR IN ADDITIONAL REVENUE IN 2022.

AND THERE WERE ABOUT 28,000 SUBSCRIBERS, ABOUT 5% OF THE CUSTOMER BASE IN 2022 N.

NEXT SLIDE, UH, WIND AND SOLAR IN TEXAS IN INCREASED BY 117 TIMES BETWEEN 2001 AND 2022.

AND IT'S ON TRACK TO GO FROM 27% IN 2022 TO 32% IN 2023 SLIDE IN AUSTIN.

RENEWABLE ENERGY HAS INCREASED FROM ALMOST NOTHING IN 2000 TO HALF OF ELECTRIC SUPPLY IN 2023 SLIDE.

AND IT IS PROJECTED TO HIT ABOUT 80% BY 2035 SLIDE.

BUT ALL THE RENEWABLE ENERGY IN THE WORLD WILL NOW NOT ALLOW IT TO BE DISPATCHABLE THAT IS TO BE USED

[00:45:01]

WHEN IT IS NEEDED.

UH, THIS IS AN HOURLY GRAPH OF THE PERCENT OF TOTAL POWER IN EAR COT IN AUGUST, UH, MADE UP OF WIND AND SOLAR.

IT RANGED FROM ALMOST HALF TO ONLY 3% IN ITS LOWEST HOUR SLIDE.

WHY SHOULD WE ASK CUSTOMERS TO PAY MORE FOR WHAT THE UTILITY IS DOING ANYWAY? WE'RE ALREADY AT 50%, WE'RE GOING TOWARDS 80% GREEN CHOICE WAS NEVER INTENDED TO LAST.

HERE'S A QUOTE IN THE AUSTIN CHRONICLE FROM 2010 BY FORMER AUSTIN ENERGY GENERAL MANAGER, ROGER DUNCAN SAYING IT WAS NEVER INTENDED TO GO ON FOREVER SLIDE TO GET GREATER RENEWABLE PERCENTAGES.

ERCOT NEEDS MORE TRANSMISSION AND DISPATCHABLE RENEWABLE POWER, INCLUDING ENERGY STORAGE.

WHAT ARE THE POSSIBILITIES TO REPURPOSE GREEN CHOICE MONEY? SLIDE LITHIUM ION BATTERIES ARE THE STANDARD TODAY, BUT THERE ARE SEVERAL PROBLEMS OR CONCERNS.

IT IS AN, IT IS LITHIUM IS AN EXPENSIVE METAL.

UH, COBALT IN SOME LITHIUM BATTERIES IS ALSO EXPENSIVE.

UH, SO EXPENSIVE IN FACT THAT THESE BATTERIES ARE ONLY USED FOR SHORT PERIODS OF TIME.

LI THE AVERAGE LITHIUM BATTERY BANK IN TEXAS WILL ONLY LAST TO ONE TO TWO HOURS.

THE METAL IS USUALLY IMPORTED WITH SUPPLY CONCERNS.

FIRE SUPPRESSION SYSTEMS ADD ADDITIONAL EXPENSE DEGRADATION BEFORE END OF LIFE IS A REAL CONCERN.

UH, THEY NEED ENERGY CONSUMING HEATING AND COOLING TO OPERATE DURING THE WINTER AND SUMMER, AND THERE ARE CYCLING LIMITATIONS, UH, WHEREAS THERE ARE SOME BATTERY, NOT, NOT QUITE YET, UH, GO BACK, UH, THERE ARE SOME, UH, BATTERIES THAT, UH, YOU CAN LITERALLY TAKE DOWN TO ZERO AND BACK UP TO 100 NUMEROUS TIMES WITHOUT DEGRADING THEM.

LITHIUM IS SUCH THAT YOU CAN'T, UH, DEEP CYCLE THEM TOO MANY TIMES BEFORE IT STARTS TO AFFECT THEIR LONG-TERM, UH, EFFECTIVENESS THERE.

UH, IT WEARS THEIR LIFETIME DOWN SLIDE.

NOW, I'VE BEEN RESEARCHING SOME OF THE LEADING EDGE, UH, BATTERY COMPANIES IN AMERICA AND TIME, UH, IN MY RESEARCH TO PUT THIS SLIDE, UH, PRESENTATION TOGETHER AS WELL AS TIME THAT THIS, UH, THE CHAIR WILL ALLOW ME.

UH, I HAD TO LIMIT IT TO ONLY A FEW.

SO, UM, BUT THEY'RE EXCITING.

HERE IS, UH, EOS, UH, A ZINC BROMINE BATTERY.

UH, RIGHT NOW IT'S PRETTY EXPENSIVE BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T GOT MASS PRODUCTION DOWN, BUT ZINC IS MORE DOMESTICALLY PLENTIFUL THAN LITHIUM.

UH, IT'S GONNA BE CHEAPER WHEN THEY FINALLY GET THE MASS PRODUCTION AND ECONOMIES OF SCALE.

UH, AND THESE CAN OPERATE MOSTLY AT AMBIENT TEMPERATURES.

UH, EOS UH, IS, THEY'RE LONG TERM GOAL IS TO HAVE THREE TO 12 HOURS OF STORAGE PER INSTALLATION.

UH, 35 MEGAWATT HOURS.

UH, THERE'S A 35 MEGAWATT HOUR PROJECT ON A CALIFORNIA INDIAN RESERVATION, UH, BEING, UH, FUNDED RIGHT NOW.

AND THEY HAVE 39 GIGAWATTS IN Q WORTH $10 MILLION.

AND I'M GOING OUT ON A LIMB HERE TO SAY THAT I'M GUESSING THAT SOME OF THAT IS BASED ON PROJECTED, UH, ECONOMIES OF SCALE.

UM, IT'S, UH, NOT ALL THAT MONEY IS IN THE BANK YET.

UH, THAT, THAT'S A, UM, A, UM, DEDUCEMENT ON MY PART.

UM, AN EDUCATED GUESS.

UH, AND HERE'S ANOTHER, UH, SLIDE, ANOTHER, UH, LEADING EDGE COM COMPANY, AMBRY.

THEY HAVE A LIQUID METAL CALCIUM TIMNEY BATTERY.

IT'S, UH, HEATED TO 500 DEGREES TO

[00:50:01]

CREATE A CHEMICAL REACTION TO STORE ELECTRICITY, NOT HEAT.

AND THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT THIS IS THAT THE THREE LAYERS, IF YOU WILL, THE, THE TWO ELECTRODES AT EITHER END AND THE ELECTROLYTE, THEY'RE NOT SOLID.

THEY'RE MELTED METAL, AND THEY'RE KIND OF LIKE A SALAD DRESSING.

THE, WHERE THE OIL AND THE VINEGAR AND THE WATER, UH, ARE AT DIFFERENT LEVELS.

WELL, AT HEAT, THESE, UH, ELEMENTS ARE AT DIFFERENT LEVELS, BUT IT WORKS.

UH, THERE ARE US PILOTS AT M AT ONE OF MICROSOFT'S DATA CENTERS THERE, HOPE AT MICROSOFT, IS THAT THEY CAN USE THIS FOR A HUGE SOLAR BATTERY, UH, EXCUSE ME, A SOLAR SLASH BATTERY INSTALLATION IN NEVADA.

THERE, UH, MICROSOFT IS EVENTUALLY HOPING TO HAVE 100% RENEWABLE ENERGY, AND THERE'S ALSO AN XCEL, UH, EXPERIMENT STATION.

UH, XCEL IS A LARGE UTILITY, UM, AND XCEL, UM, HAS A, A RESEARCH FACILITY IN AURORA, COLORADO, AND THEY'RE GONNA HAVE A 300 KILOWATT INSTALLATION THERE.

ON, UH, THE MAJOR MEGAWATT LEVEL.

THERE'S, UH, INTEREST IN BOTH SOUTH AFRICA AND IN INDIA SLIDE.

NOW, THERE'S A SAYING IN THE BATTERY BUSINESS THAT IF YOU WANT STORED ENERGY TO BE DIRT CHEAP, YOU NEED TO MAKE IT OUT OF DIRT.

AND SEVERAL COMPANIES ARE MOVING ON THIS, UH, IN AN EXPEDITED MANNER.

NOW, NOT ALL OF THEM ARE ACTUALLY DIRT.

THEY'RE USING, UH, BRICKS, SAND, UH, ROCKS, UH, SOME KIND OF MINERAL OR CERAMIC MATERIAL.

IN THE CASE OF RONDO ENERGY.

AND, AND THIS IDEALIZED VISION HERE, THEY'RE, UH, USING ELECTRICITY TO HEAT REFRACTORY BRICKS MADE OF ALUMINUM SILICA AND OXYGEN.

UH, AND THEN THAT HEAT, UH, IS USED FOR INDUSTRIAL, UH, INDUSTRIAL USE OR STEAM TO FEED A POWER PLANT.

CURRENTLY, THEY ARE POWERING AN ETHANOL FACILITY IN CALIFORNIA, BUT THERE ARE OTHER INDUSTRIAL PROJECTS IN THE DEVELOPMENT PHASE SLIDE.

AND HERE'S A, UH, ANOTHER, UH, HEAT STORAGE, UH, COMPANY, BRYN MILLER ENERGY, AND THEY'RE USING VOLCANIC ROCK.

UH, THE THEORY HERE, UH, I'M ASSUMING THAT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO IMPORT VOLCANIC ROCKS TO AMERICA.

IF YOU INSTALL ONE, YOU'LL PROBABLY, UH, BUY THE ROCKS HERE 'CAUSE IT'S CHEAPER TO TRANSPORT, BUT STILL, YOU, UH, BUILD THIS, YOU WHEEL IT IN ON SKIDS, YOU PUT IT NEXT TO A POWER PLANT, YOU PUT IN THE ROCKS AND YOU HAVE, UM, A HEAT BATTERY IN THIS CASE.

UH, AND NOW, UH, IS USING, UH, IT'S AN ITALIAN, UH, COMPANY THAT'S, UH, USING IT FOR A STEAM TURBINE SUPPLEMENT, UH, 24 MEGAWATT HOURS OF HEAT STORAGE.

UH, I WISH I COULD, UH, MAYBE IN ANOTHER, UH, PRESENTATION, I'LL GO THROUGH THE OTHER 20 LEADING BATTERY COMPANIES.

BUT I FIND THIS INCREDIBLY EXCITING, AND I THINK THIS IS THE KIND OF THING THAT WE SHOULD THINK ABOUT SPENDING, UH, MONEY FROM GREEN CHOICE ON SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO TAKE US FROM INTERMITTENT SOLAR TO, UH, DISPATCHABLE SOLAR.

NOW, IN TERMS OF THE TECHNICALITIES, ONE PART OF THIS IS ABOUT LEVERAGING FUNDS.

NEXT SLIDE.

I CAN SEE, AND, AND THIS COULD BE DONE MANY DIFFERENT WAYS, BUT I'M THINKING THAT WE SHOULD PUT ABOUT 20% OF OUR OWN MONEY FROM GREEN CHOICE INTO PROJECTS.

WE SHOULD ASK FOR AN, UH, MATCHING INVESTMENT FROM THE STORAGE COMPANY OF 20%, AND WE WOULD GET THE BALANCE FROM FEDERAL, STATE, AND NONPROFIT GRANTS, OTHER UTILITY OR GOVERNMENT PARTNERS AND PRIVATE INVESTORS.

SLIDE, UH, I CONCEIVE OF THE GOVERNANCE

[00:55:01]

BEING IN, IN AUSTIN ENERGY, MAYBE THE TECHNOLOGY AND DATA DIVISION, BUT IT'S REALLY UP TO THE UTILITY TO FIGURE OUT THE BEST FIT.

UH, WE'RE GONNA NEED AN ACADEMIC PARTNER, UH, A CONSULTANT, UH, FOR TECHNICAL EVALUATIONS OF HOW WELL THESE PROJECTS DO.

AND THE COUNCIL, UH, AND COMMISSIONS WILL NEED TO BE BRIEFED, AND THE COUNCIL WILL, UH, NEED TO, THE CITY COUNCIL WILL HAVE TO APPROVE AN ANNUAL WORK PLAN SLIDE.

IN TERMS OF MARKETING, UH, IT'S BEEN SUGGESTED TO ME THAT WE POLL THIS.

UH, WE ACTUALLY CALL SOME OF OUR GREEN CHOICE SUBSCRIBERS AS WELL AS THE GENERAL PUBLIC TO GAUGE SUPPORT AND DETERMINE THE BEST MESSAGING.

AND WE PERHAPS SHOULD HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING OR HEARINGS, UH, TO GAIN INSIGHT IN NEW TECHNOLOGIES AND APPROACHES.

I'M, UH, NOT THE ONLY PERSON THAT STUDIES THESE THINGS, AND THERE'S SOME VERY CLEVER AND WELL-EDUCATED PEOPLE IN THE AUSTIN AREA WHO, UH, I WOULD INVITE TO THESE HEARINGS SLIDE.

UH, NOW SOMETHING THAT I DON'T THINK THE CITY'S EVER TRIED TO DO BEFORE.

OF COURSE, WE EN ENGAGE IN ARBITRAGE EVERY DAY, SELLING OUR POWER, UH, ON AIR COT.

BUT IN THIS CASE, UH, IN THIS EXAMPLE, MAYBE WE WOULD TAKE, UH, ONE OR 2 CENT OVERNIGHT POWER, AND AT LEAST IN THE SUMMER, WE COULD, UH, LEVERAGE IT INTO 50 CENT OR EVEN $5, UH, PER KILOWATT POWER, UH, AT 5:00 PM DEMAND.

UH, AND PERHAPS IF WE MAKE ENOUGH MONEY, THE NEW GREEN CHOICE PROGRAM CAN DELIVER A KIND OF A DIVIDEND TO SUBSCRIBERS.

FINALLY, UH, COMMENT ON EQUITY.

UM, SOMETIMES BATTERIES CAN BE PUT INTO BUILDINGS, UH, WITH SIGNIFICANT, UH, AND THESE BUILDINGS ARE SIGNIFICANT TO VARIOUS COMMUNITIES IN AUSTIN.

AND HERE'S A KIND OF EXAMPLE OF THIS, THE SOLAR ROOF AT THE CARVER LIBRARY IN EAST AUSTIN.

UH, AND THIS KIND OF THING, IN SOME CASES COULD BE DONE FOR SOME BATTERY TECHNOLOGIES.

NOW, I DON'T WANT TO OVERPROMISE THIS BECAUSE MANY OF THESE BATTERY PROJECTS WOULD NEED TO BE PLACED AT POWER PLANTS OR SUBSTATIONS, AND SOME OF THESE TECHNOLOGIES ARE NOT APPROPRIATE FOR RESIDENTIAL INNINGS.

UH, A BATTERY WITH 500 DEGREES CENTIGRADE, I CAN'T SEE THAT BEING PUT NEXT TO A HOUSING PROJECT.

BUT, UH, IN SOME CASES, THIS WOULD BE ONE WAY THAT EQUITY CAN SOMETIMES BE MERGED WITH, UH, THE RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT EFFORT.

UH, I HOPE THE CHAIR THINKS THAT I HAVE DONE, I HAVE COMPLETED THIS IN RECORD TIME.

AND WITH THAT, UH, I WOULD TAKE COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION, FROM THE PUBLIC AND FROM STAFF.

THERE IS NO MOTION ON THE TABLE TONIGHT.

UH, WE MAY HAVE TO GO SEVERAL ROUNDS WITH THIS, BUT I'D LIKE TO HEAR FROM YOU.

MEETING OR THE MEETING AFTER THAT, THAT WOULD, UH, ASK COUNSEL TO, UH, LAY OUT THESE THINGS MORE OR LESS AS I'VE TRIED TO DESCRIBE THEM.

ALL RIGHT.

SO WHILE EVERYBODY FORMULATES THEIR QUESTIONS ALL THROUGHOUT THE FIRST ONE, LET'S SAY THAT EVERYBODY IN THIS ROOM WAS A HUNDRED PERCENT IN AGREEMENT WITH YOU RIGHT NOW AND SAID, LET'S DO THE THING.

WHAT DOES THIS PROCESS LOOK LIKE GOING FORWARD TO GET US FROM HERE TO THERE? WHAT IS THAT PROCESS GOING TO ENTAIL? WELL, I'VE TRIED TO LAY OUT THE BASIC, UM, THE, THE VERY, VERY BASIC THINGS THAT WOULD NEED TO BE DONE.

UM, UH, IF, IF THERE'S ENOUGH SUPPORT FROM THIS COMMISSION AND THERE'S NO OBSTREPEROUS OBJECTIONS FROM STAFF, UH, I WOULD HAVE A RESOLUTION AT THE NEXT

[01:00:01]

AND, UM, THAT WOULD BE THE NEXT STEP.

COMMISSIONER FARMER, UM, I'M ON A TASK FORCE FOR THE JOINT SUSTAINABILITY COMMITTEE COMMISSION.

UH, AND WE TALKED ABOUT THIS TODAY IN OUR MEETING, AND SO THEY ASKED ME TO BRING SOME NOTES TO YOU FROM THAT.

UM, BUT THE, THE GROUP IS GENERALLY SUPPORTIVE OF REPURPOSING THE GREEN CHOICE FUNDING FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

UM, ONE TRACK OF, OF NOTE, WHICH I THINK IS WHAT COMMISSIONER STONE WAS GETTING AT, IS WANTING MORE OF LIKE, A, CAN WE DO THIS? AND, AND THEN WHAT IS THE PATH TOWARDS THIS? YOU KNOW, SORT OF LIKE A, A STEP ORIENTED, LIKE WHAT ARE THE NEXT PIECES OF IT? AND THEN THE OTHER TRACK WAS, UM, CONCERN THAT IT'S, UH, IT'S LIKE VERY BROAD AT THE MOMENT, AND SO THERE'S A LOT OF PLACES TO POKE AT IT THAT MAYBE WOULD DISTRACT FROM THE LIKE UNDERLYING MESSAGE, YOU KNOW, AS SOMETHING THAT WE'RE VERY SUPPORTIVE OF.

SO LIKE, BEING MORE ACUTE IN THE PROPOSAL OR MAYBE COMING UP WITH A WORKING GROUP TO FIGURE OUT A MORE ACUTE TACK TO LIKE WHAT THE ASK IS.

UM, OKAY.

UH, LET ME ADDRESS TWO THINGS, OR, OR ARE YOU TWO OR, WELL, I AND, AND TWO.

AND I GUESS THE, THE, THE, THE FINAL POINT WAS JUST TO BE FAIR TO YOU, THAT WAS BASED ON THE EARLIER DRAFT OF THE PRESENTATION.

SO WE DIDN'T HAVE, YOU KNOW, IT'S KIND OF FLUSHED OUT IN THE LEVEL THAT YOU DID TONIGHT.

UM, TO YOUR FIRST POINT.

UM, WHEREAS YOU SUGGEST IT'S VERY BROAD, UH, I HAD, UH, REQUESTS FROM AT LEAST TWO COMMISSIONERS, UH, STONE AND DAVIS, UH, CHARLOTTE DAVIS TO ACTUALLY, UM, BE MORE SPECIFIC.

SO THAT'S WHY, WHY I WROTE THE PROPOSAL THE WAY I DID.

UM, AND I'M ALL FOR A WORKING GROUP, ALTHOUGH IT SHOULD BE A GROUP THAT IS CONDUCIVE TO WORKING TOGETHER.

AND, UH, THE COMMISSIONER, UH, IT, IT MIGHT NEED TO BE FROM MEMBERS OUTSIDE OF R M C AS WELL AS INSIDE OF THE, THIS COMMISSION.

UH, JUST COMMISSIONER STONE, UH, CHAIR STONE TO CLARIFY, UH, YOU CALL IT A BET.

UM, WHILE, WHILE EVERYBODY ELSE IS THINKING, I MEAN, BASICALLY WHERE MY CONCERN WAS ON NOT BEING SPECIFIC ENOUGH, AND WE KIND OF TALKED ABOUT THIS A LITTLE BIT AS WE WERE KICKING AROUND THIS IDEA.

THE ORIGINAL THOUGHT THAT WE HAD OR PAUL HAD WAS, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY HAVE GREEN CHOICE, ESSENTIALLY MAKE SOME BETTS IN THE UPCOMING MARKETPLACE FOR, YOU KNOW, DISPATCHABLE STORAGE SOLUTIONS AND THAT KIND OF THING.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHERE ALL OF MY QUESTIONS STARTED COMING TO, WELL NOW WHO'S GOING TO BE DECIDING WHAT COMPANIES ARE WORTHY OF INVESTING IN AND, AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.

AND SO NOW YOU HAVE TO BUILD ALL OF THAT EXTRA INFRASTRUCTURE AROUND IT BECAUSE IT'S NO LONGER ABOUT AUSTIN ENERGY SAYING, GIVE ME AN EXTRA WHATEVER, NICKEL PER KILOWATT OR WHATEVER THE NUMBERS ARE.

UM, I DO SEE COMMISSIONER KARA GOTTI, YOU'LL BE UP NEXT.

UM, IT'S NO LONGER ABOUT JUST COLLECTING THIS ADDITIONAL FUNDS AND THEN GOING OUT THERE AND MAKING SURE THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO MEET THE OBLIGATIONS THAT AUSTIN ENERGY HAS WITH REGARDS TO PURCHASING RENEWABLE POWER OR GENERATING ITS OWN.

INSTEAD, NOW YOU'VE GOT SOMEBODY WHO'S GOTTA LOOK THROUGH INVESTORS' PROSPECTUSES, FOR EXAMPLE.

AND THAT'S WHERE MY CONCERN CAME FROM.

NOW WHEN YOU PULL IT BACK NOW AND SAY, WE'RE LOOKING AT THESE TECHNOLOGIES THAT ARE OUT THERE, THE PEOPLE ARE WORKING ON NOW AT THIS POINT, YOU CAN PUT THESE SMART PEOPLE IN A ROOM TOGETHER ALONG WITH THEIR COUNTERPARTS OVER AT AUSTIN ENERGY, AND THEY CAN SAY, THIS IS WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO TRY, YOU KNOW, THE COLLECTIVE WILL SAY, WE'RE GOING TO GO WITH THE ZINC BRICK IDEA, FOR EXAMPLE.

AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT I HOPE FOR IT TO BE, IS TO HAVE THESE PEOPLE MAKE THE BEST CHOICE THEY CAN AS A GROUP AND THEN REDIRECT FUNDING THAT WAY.

WHICH IS WHY I WAS ASKING YOU TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE SPECIFIC ON IT.

'CAUSE I JUST DIDN'T WANT TO HAVE A PORTFOLIO MANAGER OR AN INVESTMENT MANAGER NOW EMBEDDED WITHIN AUSTIN ENERGY AND TRYING TO PLAY SMALL BETTS ACROSS MULTIPLE TECHNOLOGIES.

I JUST WANTED TO BE ABLE TO HAVE SOMETHING WHERE PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS OUT THERE RIGHT NOW CAN MAKE THE BEST REASON DECISION AND BRING THAT TO THE RATE PAYER AS A POSSIBLE IDEA.

[01:05:01]

I CALL IT A BID.

UH, ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE, ARE GOING TO BE BID, UH, THE WAY I'M CONCEIVING THIS NOW, IT MAY BE BID WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF ZINC BRICKS OR SOMETHING OF, OF, OF THAT NATURE, BUT STILL, UH, THIS, I, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'RE JUST GONNA PLUCK, UH, ONE COMPANY, UH, OUT, OUT OF THE, THE TWO DOZEN LEADING EDGE AND SAY, UH, YOU ARE THE ONE WITHOUT ANY VETTING.

UM, UM, THAT, THAT I DO UNDERSTAND.

I JUST KIND OF WANTED US TO PICK A LANE, YOU KNOW, OR HAVE THAT GROUPING PICK A LANE, SO TO SPEAK, OF WHERE THEY WANNA TRY TAKING RATE PAYER MONEY TO BE ABLE TO DO THINGS THAT ARE GOING TO BE BETTER FOR US IN THE FUTURE AS OPPOSED TO GETTING TOO FAR AND WIDE.

AND, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, NOW YOU RUN INTO THE PROBLEM AGAIN.

YOU HAVE SOMEBODY WITHIN AUSTIN ENERGY PLAYING PORTFOLIO MANAGER RATHER THAN SOMEBODY WHO'S WORKING WITH MEMBERS OF THIS COMMISSION OR A WORKING GROUP OR WHATEVER STRUCTURE IT MAY TAKE TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW THEY WANT TO INVEST IN THIS NEXT GENERATION.

THAT'S ALL I'M REALLY GOING FOR.

UNDERSTAND, AND I HAVE THE SAME CONCERN.

UH, COMMISSIONER CARTI, YOU'VE BEEN VERY PATIENT OVER THERE.

THIS IS YOUR MOMENT.

HEY, THANK YOU.

AND THANKS FOR BRINGING THIS UP.

UH, COMMISSIONER ROBBINS, YOU KNOW, UM, YOU KNOW, I'M JUST GONNA REITERATE, I'M JUST GONNA REITERATE IN A DIFFERENT WAY THAT, UM, I THINK THIS IS A GREAT IDEA TO GREAT MOVE FORWARD FOR THE CITY OF AUSTIN.

UM, AND IT'S A GREAT IDEA.

IT REALLY IS.

I GUESS MY CONCERN TOO IS LIKE THE INFRASTRUCTURE OF IT, HOW MUCH IS IT GONNA COST FOR US TO MOVE THIS FORWARD? HOW LONG IS IT GONNA TAKE? YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE YOU, YOU NEED, WE NEED TO BUILD ANOTHER INFRASTRUCTURE IN ORDER TO MAKE SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAPPEN AND MAKE IT WORK CORRECTLY AND TO USE OUR RESOURCES, UM, IN A WAY THAT WE'RE NOT BEING WASTEFUL.

SO THAT'S, IT'S KIND OF JUST A COMMENT AND CONCERN THAT I HAVE.

UM, SO, YOU KNOW, MAYBE BUILDING A WORK GROUP IS A GOOD IDEA TO GET IT, TO GET THE PARTY STARTED, I GUESS YOU COULD SAY.

AND THEN GO FROM THERE.

THAT'S REALLY ALL I HAD.

MY GENERAL THOUGHT ON THAT JUST WAS THAT AT, AT THE VERY EARLIEST.

AND THAT'S IF EVERYBODY CAME TO A MAGICAL AGREEMENT ALL AT ONCE, YOU STILL COULDN'T DO ANYTHING FOR THE NEXT FISCAL YEAR ANYWAY BECAUSE IT WOULD REQUIRE BUDGETARY APPROVAL, IT WOULD REQUIRE AUSTIN ENERGY TO GET COUNCIL ON BOARD WITH, YOU KNOW, CHANGES TO GREEN CHOICE.

IT WOULD NOT BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE INSTANTANEOUS.

SO, YOU KNOW, SOME SORT OF A WORKING GROUP TYPE OF A STRUCTURE WOULD PROBABLY BE YOUR FIRST BET.

AND IT PROBABLY IS A ONE OR TWO YEAR LONG ENDEAVOR THAT THIS COMMISSION AND THIS WORKING GROUP WOULD BE FACING IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THIS KIND OF CHANGE.

IT COULD BE ACCELERATED, BUT I WOULD TEND TO THINK YOU'RE PROBABLY LOOKING AT THE 25 OR 26 FISCAL YEAR BEFORE SOMETHING LIKE THAT WOULD HAPPEN.

LET'S TRY AND LIMIT IT TO ONE YEAR.

RICHARD, MR. BREN.

HEY, UM, I WAS CURIOUS IF THERE ARE PRECEDENTS FOR OTHER UTILITIES, UM, TO INVEST IN STORAGE.

THERE ARE PRECEDENTS FOR OTHER GOVERNMENTS.

UH, AS YOU KNOW, UH, UH, ONE, UH, GOVERNMENTAL MODEL THAT, UH, I ADMIRE IS, UH, I THINK IT'S THE CALIFORNIA ENERGY COMMISSION.

AND THEY TAKE MONEY FROM UTILITIES AND CHANNEL IT INTO RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT.

UH, AND, AND, UH, I'M GONNA HAZARD A GUESS THAT YOU'RE SOMEWHAT FIR AT LEAST A LITTLE FAMILIAR WITH THEM.

I'M, I'M FAMILIAR WITH ANOTHER WAY THAT, UM, UTIL I GUESS I'M, UM, I'M FAMILIAR WITH A GOVERNMENT USING THEIR RESOURCES THAT THEY GOT FROM, LIKE, THAT THEY'RE BUYING FROM COAL, BASICALLY TO LIKE CREATE A GRANT PROGRAM FOR GREEN BUILDING.

UM, BUT I MEAN, NOTHING HAVING TO DO WITH, LIKE, BUYING NEW FORMS OF ENERGY, BASICALLY.

SO THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO ASK FOR, IS THERE, IS THERE ANY SORT OF, UM, WORK PATH THAT WOULD BE DEVELOPED THAT ANOTHER UTILITY HAS DONE TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS?

[01:10:03]

I CANNOT ANSWER THAT WITH COMPLETE CLARITY, BUT, UH, FOR INSTANCE, ONE OF THE COMPANIES THAT I HIGHLIGHTED TONIGHT, UH, EOS, UH, THE ZINC BRO, MINE BATTERY, UH, IF MY MEMORY SERVES ME CORRECTLY, THERE ARE 35 MEGAWATT HOUR PROJECT IN CALIFORNIA IS PARTIALLY FUNDED BY THE CALIFORNIA ENERGY COMMISSION.

AND I THINK THE COMMISSION IS IN TURN FUNDED, UH, WITH UTILITY, PARTIALLY FUNDED WITH UTILITY MONEY.

AND IT WOULD NOT SURPRISE ME IN ANY WAY IF THE UTILITIES WERE SOMEHOW INVOLVED IN THE PROJECT, NOT JUST TO HOOK IT UP TO THEIR SYSTEM, BUT MAYBE THEY'RE DOING EVALUATIONS, MAYBE THEY'RE DOING CONSULTING.

UM, I, I CAN'T ANSWER THAT DEFINITIVELY, BUT MY GUESS IS THEY'RE LIKELY TO.

THANK YOU, RICHARD.

YOU'VE BEEN VERY PATIENT STANDING UP THERE.

UH, THERE IS A LITTLE BUTTON FOR YOU TO TURN ON YOUR MICROPHONE UP THERE.

UM, I DON'T WANT MY COMMENTS TO BE TAKEN OUTTA CONTEXT.

I THINK THAT, UM, THERE IS A LOT HERE AND I THINK THAT, UH, WE WOULD NEED SUFFICIENT TIME TO, UM, EXAMINE AND CONSIDER WHAT, UH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS, UH, HAS PROPOSED.

THERE ARE A NUMBER OF WAYS THAT IN WHICH YOU COULD ACHIEVE THE SAME ENDS.

UH, BUT I AGREE WITH, UH, CHAIR STONE THAT THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO, IT IS SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO TAKE TIME TO EVEN EVALUATE, MUCH LESS CONSIDER, UH, A, A POSITIVE DIRECTION.

UM, AUSTIN ENERGY, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, DOES NOT HAVE AN OVERALL R AND D FUND OR FUNCTION WITHIN THE UTILITY.

NOW, C E S HAS AN EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES GROUP, UH, BUT THE, BUT THE UTILITIES, A WHOLE DOES NOT HAVE AN R AND D FUNCTION, UH, AS I UNDERSTAND IT.

SO CONSIDERATION OF THAT WOULD NEED TO TAKE PLACE.

AND THEN, AS HAS ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED HERE, WHAT IS THE STRUCTURE? WHAT IS THE INFRASTRUCTURE FOR THAT ORGANIZATION? HOW ARE PROJECTS DEVELOPED, CONSIDERED, ET CETERA, EXECUTED, EVALUATED THAT WHOLE PROCESS.

UM, AT A PREVIOUS, UH, ORGANIZATION, I WAS PART OF A TECHNOLOGY EVALUATION COMMITTEE, AND THAT HAD A LOT OF STRUCTURE TO IT INVOLVING MULTIPLE UTILITIES, OTHER GOVERNMENT ENTITIES, ET CETERA, WHERE, UM, UH, ENTITIES WOULD PITCH IDEAS WITH FUNDING, UH, TO THIS COMMITTEE THAT WOULD EVALUATE THEM, RANK THOSE OPPORTUNITIES, AND THEN MAKE A DECISION ON A PORTFOLIO, UH, TO PURSUE FOR THE UPCOMING, UH, FISCAL YEAR.

BUT THAT WAS A PRETTY LONG PROCESS AND, AND, UH, PRETTY INVOLVED PROCESS, FRUITFUL RESULTS TO BE SURE, BUT NOT SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO, IN MY OPINION, ADDRESS HERE, UH, IN ANY IMMEDIATE FASHION.

I DO WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT VICE CHAIR ROBIN UNDERSTANDS THAT I CERTAINLY VALUE THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF AN R AND D PORTFOLIO.

UM, AND SO THAT'S WORTH CONSIDERING, UH, AND, UH, UH, WEIGHING.

BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK THIS IS SOMETHING THAT CAN BE DONE IN THE SCOPE OF A COUPLE OF MEETINGS.

THE MAYOR'S FUND, UH, SORRY.

I AGREE THAT THIS CAN, THE PROCESS ITSELF CANNOT BE ESTABLISHED OVERNIGHT.

UH, BUT THE DIRECTION A LOT OF IT CAN, UH, AND WHETHER IT'S, UH, MAYBE I'M DELUSIONAL, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO HUMOR MYSELF THAT SOMETHING COULD BE DONE CONSTRUCTIVELY, UH, WITHIN THE NEXT YEAR.

I, I THINK, YOU KNOW, AS, AS YOU'RE HEARING, I DON'T OPPOSE PORTIONS OF THE IDEA, BUT I THINK YOU WOULD NEED TO ADD SIGNIFICANTLY MORE STRUCTURE

[01:15:01]

TO IT.

UM, SO WOULD YOU BE ADVERSE IF, IF WE DO SET UP A WORKING GROUP, UH, AND AS WE CONTINUE, UH, I WOULD LIKE TO GET YOUR, YOUR INPUT AND ME MEMBERS OF STAFF WHO HAVE INPUT, I WOULD LIKE TO GET THEIR SPECIFIC, UH, IDEAS.

YEAH, I, I THINK, YOU KNOW, ONCE THE COMMISSION, YOU KNOW, IS ALIGNED, UM, ABSOLUTELY THE, UH, YOU KNOW, I WOULD TAKE BACK TO THE REST OF AUSTIN ENERGY, UM, THAT ALIGNMENT AND THE, THE, UH, AUSTIN ENERGY IN TOTAL COULD DECIDE ON A DIRECTION, UH, AND PURSUE.

BUT CERTAINLY MY, THE RESOURCES OF C E S WOULD BE, UM, AVAILABLE TO ASSIST AND CONSIDER AT THAT POINT.

COMMISSIONER KARA GTI, YOU HAD PUT YOUR HAND UP, BUT I DON'T SEE IT ON THE SCREEN ANYMORE.

DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU WANTED? YEAH, I WAS GONNA ASK, UH, COMMISSIONER BRENNAN WHAT HER QUESTION WAS AGAIN, 'CAUSE I MIGHT HAVE AN ANSWER, BUT I WANNA MAKE SURE IT WAS FOR THE QUESTION SHE HAD.

HEY, I WAS ME.

SORRY.

GO AHEAD, .

UM, I WAS ASKING ABOUT IF THERE ARE PRECEDENTS FOR OTHER UTILITIES INVESTING IN STORAGE.

DOES THAT, IS THAT CLEAR, MORE CLEAR? UH, MAYBE NOT REALLY.

UM, I WAS, I WAS GONNA ANSWER YOUR QUESTION MORE ALONG THE LINES OF, YOU KNOW, MULTIPLE UTILITY COMPANIES CAN OWN AND GENERATE POWER AND, BUT FOR STORAGE, I'M NOT SURE IN PARTICULAR, BUT YES.

ON OWNING AND SHARED GENERATION PLANTS AND SUBSTATIONS, SO I DUNNO IF THAT HELPED YOU OR NOT.

SORRY, .

NO WORRIES.

RIGHT NOW WITH THE VOLUNTARY AMOUNT OF, WHAT WAS IT? A HALF A PENNY PER KILOWATT HOUR, WHATEVER THE NUMBER, WHATEVER, THREE QUARTERS OF A PENNY.

COMMISSIONER FARMER THERE, THERE'S A, A PROJECT, UM, IN ADELAIDE, IT'S A LITTLE BIT A, A FIELD, BUT, UH, WHERE THEY PARTLY THROUGH UTILITY AND PARTLY THROUGH A STATE GRANT, THEY FUNDED, UH, IT'S MORE LIKE A TESLA BATTLE POWERWALLS, SO IT'S PARTNERSHIP WITH TESLA.

AND SO IT'S A VIRTUAL POWER PLANT WHERE OVER YEARS THEY PUT A BUNCH OF POWERWALLS ON ALL OF THEIR CITY AND STATE BUILDINGS AS WELL AS AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

AND THEN THEY USE THAT FOR SIMILAR MEANS, SORT OF LIKE A SMALLER SCALE, MORE DISAGGREGATED IDEA OF IT.

UM, AND I, I HAD A QUESTION FOR COMMISSIONER ROBBINS.

UM, SO THE, THE GREEN CHOICE MONEY IS, YOU'RE SAYING IT'S ABOUT LIKE SEVEN AND A HALF MILLION A YEAR, RIGHT? UM, IS THE IDEA WITH THIS THAT EVERY YEAR THAT WOULD GO INTO THIS BATTERY OR YOU WOULD KIND OF CREATE LIKE A SKUNKWORK WHERE EVERY YEAR IT GOES TO FUND A DIFFERENT, UH, BID, UM, AND WE'RE TESTING OUT DIFFERENT TECH? OR IS THERE LIKE A, A GROUP THAT WOULD DEFINE HOW THAT MONEY? IT IS ENTIRELY UNCLEAR AT THIS POINT.

$7.4 MILLION IS A LOT OF MONEY TO ME, AND MOST OF THE PEOPLE I KNOW LEVERAGED, IT'S THE LEVERAGED FIVE TIMES.

IT'S EVEN MORE MONEY, BUT IT'S NOT A LOT OF MONEY IN THE UTILITY INDUSTRY.

SO WE, UH, IT COULD BE THAT, THAT THAT WOULD BE ONE PROJECT THAT WOULD BE FUNDED WITH THAT MONEY FOR SEVERAL YEARS.

OR IT COULD BE THAT WE'D PICK A NEW ONE OR SEVERAL NEW ONES EVERY YEAR.

UH, THAT THIS IS ENTIRELY, UH, UNKNOWN AT THIS POINT.

AND TO BE HONEST, UH, VICE CHAIR, THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I'M GETTING AT WHEN I'M TALKING ABOUT THE IDEA OF IT NEEDING MORE STRUCTURE AND FOR ME TO UNDERSTAND WHAT GETS US FROM POINT A TO Z AND YOU KNOW, WHAT, UH, WHAT MANAGEMENT OF THIS PROGRAM WOULD LOOK LIKE.

AND, AND THAT'S WHY I THINK SOMETHING LIKE A WORKING GROUP, AND IT COULD VERY WELL BE YOU AND MR. GENESEE AND SOMEBODY FROM AUSTIN GREEN AND SOMEBODY FROM A COUPLE OTHER FOLKS LITERALLY GO OUT AND HASH SANDWICHES AND HASH THINGS OUT FOR A LITTLE BIT TO COME UP WITH A KIND OF A BASIC, UM, YOU KNOW, TEMPLATE FOR WHAT IT IS YOU THINK IT MIGHT LOOK LIKE.

AND THERE WILL BE A LOT OF DETAIL THAT'S MISSING.

AND THEN THAT'S PART OF WHAT THIS GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT MAY GROW OVER TIME AS COUNCIL STARTS TO GET INVOLVED OR OTHER COMMISSIONS DECIDE TO PUT THEIR NOSES IN ON IT, WHERE YOU'RE NOW ABLE TO TAKE THIS THING AND HELP FLESH IT OUT FURTHER TO MAKE A PROGRAM THAT CAN BE SOMETHING THAT WE CAN ALL BE PROUD OF DOWN THE LINE.

THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I'M GOING FOR, BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW, DO WE WANT TO PLACE SEVERAL SMALL BETTS, WE WANNA MAKE ONE BIG BET? DO WE WANT TO KEEP GOING WITH THE SAME BASIC, YOU KNOW, NUMBER THAT WE HAVE

[01:20:01]

THERE YOU GO.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE MIGHT SAY WE WANNA DO IT AT A PENNY AND SEE IF THAT'S GOING TO CHANGE.

I MEAN, THERE'S LOTS OF THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT ARE ALL GONNA BE MOVABLE PARTS THAT THIS GROUP OF PEOPLE WOULD WANNA SIT DOWN AND, AND, AND DISCUSS.

I'M NOT EVEN SURE EXACTLY HOW I WOULD PHRASE THAT.

I HESITATE TO CREATE ANOTHER WORKING GROUP WITHOUT KNOWING WHO NEEDS TO BE IN THE WORKING GROUP FIRST.

UM, MAY I, BUT YOU KNOW, THAT'S, SO THAT'S SOMETHING YOU COULD PROBABLY DRAFT.

MAY HUMBLY MAKE A SUGGESTION.

UH, TREY HAS ALREADY, UH, READ IN ON THIS, UH, EXCUSE ME.

COMMISSIONER FARMER IS ALREADY READ IN ON THIS.

UH, AND THE, UM, THE, UM, SEVERAL MEMBERS OF THE JOINT, UH, SUSTAINABILITY, UH, COMMITTEE THAT YOU'RE ON MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN THE SANDWICH CLUB.

UH, SO, UM, I WOULD, UM, SUGGEST THAT FOR THE TIME, UNLESS THERE ARE, UM, THIS IS SOMEONE ELSE IN THIS GROUP THAT, UH, WANTS TO JOIN, UH, I WOULD SUGGEST THAT, UH, IF YOU'RE OKAY WITH THIS COMMISSIONER FARMER, THAT WE TRY AND CREATE A, A KIND OF A WORKING GROUP, UH, BETWEEN, UH, THE PEOPLE THAT YOU'VE TALKED TO AND SEE HOW FAR WE CAN PUSH THIS BALL.

SURE, YEAH.

I'LL, I'LL, I'LL BRING THAT TO THE GROUP.

I'M SURE THERE'D BE SOME PEOPLE INTERESTED AND I, I NEED TO TALK TO MY WIFE.

I MIGHT BE INTERESTED.

UM, VERY GOOD.

AND SO MY RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE BASICALLY PERHAPS YOU IN BETWEEN NOW AND THE NEXT MEETING, TRY TO FIND WHAT YOU THINK IT IS.

LIKE, TAKE SOMEBODY OUT TO LUNCH, FLUSH THINGS OUT A LITTLE BIT MORE, WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT GROUP NEEDS TO LOOK LIKE? REACH OUT TO SOMEBODY AT AUSTIN ENERGY AS WELL, GET GOOD FEEDBACK FROM THEM AS WELL AS TO WHAT IT IS.

AND LIKE I SAID, I THINK YOUR FIRST STEP IS YOU CREATE THAT ENVELOPE SKETCH OF HERE'S WHAT IT IS.

I THINK THE GOAL SHOULD BE HERE'S WHO THE PLAYERS ARE THAT NEED TO BE INVOLVED TO HELP FLESH THIS THING OUT FURTHER.

AND THEN YOU COME BACK MAYBE FOR AT THE NEXT MEETING, WE CAN LEAVE THIS ON THE AGENDA AGAIN.

AND NOW YOU COME AND BASICALLY PROPOSE A WORKING GROUP THEN WHERE YOU'VE ALREADY GOT PEOPLE LINED UP, ESSENTIALLY WILLING AND ABLE.

AND LIKE I SAID, I, MY ONE CONCERN IS JUST WE NEED TO TEMPER EXPECTATIONS.

THIS WILL NOT BE SOMETHING QUICK BECAUSE IT WILL REQUIRE BUDGETARY APPROVAL FROM THE CITY OF AUSTIN.

SO EVEN IF WE HAD THE MAGIC BLUEPRINT TOMORROW, IT STILL WOULDN'T HAPPEN UNTIL A YEAR FROM NOW.

I GET IT.

UH, I WAS NOT EXPECTING THIS TO HAPPEN QUICKLY, THOUGH.

I HOPE IT'S NOT AS SLOW AS YOU'VE DESCRIBED IT.

UH, I, I WILL TRY TO, UH, ARRANGE SOME LUNCH MEETINGS WITH PEOPLE.

UH, I WOULD LIKE TO ASK MS. GOODWIN TO, UH, KEEP THIS ON THE AGENDA SO THAT, UH, WE CAN, UM, HOWEVER BRIEFLY UPDATE THE COMMITTEE COMMITTEE TO THE COMMISSION ON PROGRESS.

UH, I DO REMIND, UH, UH, THE CHAIR THAT YOU AND I WERE PART OF A SUCCESSFUL WORKING GROUP ON GREEN BUILDING, AND IT PROBABLY TOOK, I'M GONNA GUESS ABOUT, ABOUT A YEAR FROM THE TIME WE STARTED MEETING TO THE TIME WHEN THINGS ACTUALLY PASSED.

UH, AND, AND THAT IS TRUE, BUT YOU KNOW, AT THE SAME TIME, I KNOW THAT, UM, OUR, OUR COLLEAGUES OVER AT AUSTIN ENERGY, UH, FELT A LITTLE BIT PUT OUT BY THE MANNER IN WHICH WE ESSENTIALLY IMPOSED THE GROUP UPON THEM.

AND SO I'D REALLY LIKE IT TO BE MORE COLLABORATIVE, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE WE KNOW WE'RE GOING TO BE LEANING ON THEM AND THEIR EXPERTISE GOING FORWARD.

THAT HADN'T BEEN SAID.

COMMISSIONER DAVIS, YOU HAD YOUR HAND UP A LONG TIME AGO.

UM, DO YOU STILL HAVE THAT QUESTION OR DID YOU GIVE UP ON US? UH, NO, THANK YOU.

UM, I, I JUST WANNA SAY I APPRECIATE, UH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS FOR BRINGING THIS AND, UM, RECOGNIZE THAT THINGS CHANGE IS SLOW IN, UM, YOU KNOW, IN THESE AREAS.

AND SO YOU HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE.

AND SO I'M GRATEFUL THAT WE'RE STARTING TO TALK ABOUT THIS NOW.

UM, AND I RECOGNIZE THAT IT IS GONNA TAKE, UM, A LOT OF COLLABORATION.

SO I I DON'T THINK THAT SHOULD DETER US OR DISCOURAGE US FROM, FROM TRYING TO MOVE THE BALL FORWARD A LITTLE BIT EVERY CHANCE THAT WE GET.

UM, I, I ALSO WANTED TO COMMENT ON THE, UM, I GUESS THE, THE $7.4 MILLION

[01:25:01]

THAT'S FUNDED THROUGH THE, THE CURRENT GREEN CHOICE PROGRAM, WHICH IS MADE UP OF, IS IT, IT'S PRIMARILY RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS, IS THAT CORRECT? UH, THERE'S A COUPLE STAFF PEOPLE THAT ARE SHAKING THEIR HEADS, NO.

UM, OH, IT'S COMMERCIAL.

UM, MR. NESSY, WOULD YOU LIKE TO COMMENT? YOU'LL HAVE TO SAY YOUR NAME AGAIN FOR US, JUST VALERIE PAXTON WITH AUSTIN ENERGY.

WE, WE DO HAVE A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF RESIDENTIAL HOMES THAT ARE SUBSCRIBED, BUT THE BULK OF KILOWATT HOURS SUBSCRIBED IS, IS DEFINITELY OUR COMMERCIAL, UM, PROGRAM.

I THINK WE HAVE ABOUT 20,000 PARTICIPANTS, ALL IN ALL.

SO IT'S, IT'S A, IT'S A HEALTHY PROGRAM.

UM, BUT, BUT THE BULK OF THE KILOWATT HOURS PURCHASED ARE, ARE ABSOLUTELY COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS.

SO THOSE COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS ARE VOLUNTARILY UPCHARGING THEIR, UM, THEIR, THEIR BILLS FOR THE, FOR THE PURPOSE OF CHOOSING GREEN ENERGY.

AND SO, I, I JUST WANNA SAY THAT AS WE'RE THINKING ABOUT THIS, UM, YOU KNOW, MAKING A CHANGE THIS SUBSTANTIAL TO THE PROGRAM IS GOING TO, IT'S GONNA REQUIRE EDUCATION.

IT'S GONNA REQUIRE PROBABLY SOME PERSUASION TO, UM, YOU KNOW, CONVINCE PEOPLE, CUSTOMERS TO CONTINUE TO LAY OUT THIS ADDITIONAL VOLUNTARY, UM, UPCHARGE FOR THE PURPOSE OF, UM, YOU KNOW, MOVING TOWARD MORE RENEWABLE ENERGY.

SO THAT'S JUST SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND AS WE'RE THINKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THIS POT OF MONEY, LET'S MOVE THIS POT OF MONEY AND DO IT THERE.

WELL, IF WE CHANGE THE, THE PURPOSE OF IT, THAT COULD ALSO CHANGE, UM, YOU KNOW, THE POT.

YOU'RE RIGHT.

WHICH IS WHY I WANT TO PULL THEM.

YEAH, AND I, I, I WOULD JUST NOTE THAT, UM, I THINK WHAT, UM, COMMISSIONER DAVIS SAYS IS, IS RIGHT, WE HAVE A LOT OF POTENTIALLY CONFLICTING INFORMATION HERE TOO, IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, CUSTOMERS ARE NOT MONOLITHIC.

UH, DIFFERENT CUSTOMERS WANT DIFFERENT THINGS.

AND SO IT IS VERY POSSIBLE THAT WE HAVE GROUPS OF CUSTOMERS, LIKE A SMALL COMMERCIAL SEGMENT THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, GREEN CHOICE CUSTOMERS AND, AND LIKE PAYING THE EXTRA PREMIUM FOR SUPPORTING GREEN ENERGY, AS WELL AS OTHER CUSTOMERS WHO ARE SAYING, I DON'T WANT TO PAY ANYTHING MORE FOR GREEN ENERGY, AND, YOU KNOW, I AM ACTUALLY OPPOSED TO ANY CHANGE.

I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THIS WAS BEING COLLECTED, ET CETERA.

SO WE JUST HAVE TO MOVE DILIGENTLY, UH, FROM THAT STANDPOINT.

AND, UM, AS PARTS OF THIS WOULD UNDOUBTEDLY BE WITH PUBLIC INPUT, IF WE WERE MOVING IN THAT DIRECTION, WE NEED TO WEIGH AND CONSIDER THAT AS WELL AS CHAIR.

AND I DO NOT WANT TO CUT OFF ANY OTHER INPUT FROM COMMISSIONERS OR STAFF.

UM, I'VE, UH, I APPRECIATE THE FEEDBACK THAT I'VE HEARD.

IF THERE'S, IF THERE ARE NO OTHER COMMENTS, UH, THEN, UM, I WILL PROCEED INFORMALLY, UH, TO TRY AND GET MORE OPINIONS.

JUST LOOKING FOR AN UPDATE FROM THE TEXAS GAS WORKING GROUP.

SO, UH, JUST AS KIND OF A NOTE FROM ME ON, ON THIS, AND IN OTHER THINGS, YOU'LL SEE MY NAME ON THINGS THAT APPEAR HALF BAKED FROM TIME TO TIME OR WHATEVER, OR THINGS IN DEVELOPMENT.

I WILL ALWAYS CO-SPONSOR SOMETHING TO ALLOW IT TO COME UP FOR DISCUSSION, EVEN IF I PERSONALLY DON'T LIKE IT UNLESS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MAYONNAISE ON CORN BEEF OR SOMETHING WEIRD LIKE THAT.

UM, BUT THAT'S WHY YOU SEE MY NAME ON THIS.

BUT IN, IN, IN, IN CHARLOTTE AND PAUL HAVE SEEN IT BEFORE, I HAVE VOTED NO ON SOMETHING WHERE I'M A SPONSOR ON A BILL BECAUSE I JUST DIDN'T LIKE IT.

BUT I WILL STILL ENTERTAIN DISCUSSION.

SO I JUST WANTED YOU GUYS TO KIND OF UNDERSTAND THAT.

MOVING ON IN OUR AGENDA, WE'RE UP TO, UH, ITEM NUMBER SIX, UH,

[6. Update from the Texas Gas Service Working Group.]

UH, COMMISSIONER GARY IS KIND OF THE ONE THAT WE TAPPED INFORMALLY TO LEAD OUR LITTLE BAND OF MARRIED MEN AND WOMEN.

UM, SO I'M JUST WONDERING IF YOU COULD GIVE US A QUICK UPDATE ON HOW THINGS ARE GOING.

YEAH, SURE.

SO WE DID NOT HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO MEET IN AUGUST IS SEPTEMBER YET, WE DIDN'T MEET IN, AND SO I WOULD REQUEST THAT YOU GIVE US, UH, PROBABLY SOME ADDITIONAL TIME MAYBE FOR THE NEXT MEETING TO

[01:30:01]

REPORT.

DO WE FEEL LIKE IN, IN, IN WORKING WITH TEXAS GAS THAT WE'RE GOING TO GET THERE, SO TO SPEAK? I MEAN, THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT WE AS A COMMISSION CAN KIND OF AGREE UPON, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT WE DON'T SEE THE UTILITY OF IN THE REBATE STRUCTURE.

FOR EXAMPLE, DO WE THINK THAT WE'RE GOING TO GET TO A MEETING OF THE MINES AND WORK WITH THEM ON CREATING SOMETHING FOR, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHEN THE FISCAL YEAR FOR THIS WOULD BE, BUT FOR WHATEVER OR WHENEVER THEIR RENEWAL PERIOD IS, DO WE THINK WE'RE GONNA ACTUALLY GET THERE AS AN AGREEMENT WITHIN THIS WORKING GROUP, UH, FOR A PATH FORWARD THAT WE CAN, THAT CAN BE BROUGHT TO COUNSEL? I, I REALLY DO.

I, AND I THINK YOU TEXT ME, SOMEBODY SENT ME A MESSAGE AND ASKED THE SAME THING.

I, I I DO.

BECAUSE, UM, IN SPEAKING WITH THEM, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO GET TOGETHER, I THINK WE CONTINUE TO CULTIVATE THE RELATIONSHIP AND THAT'S IMPORTANT.

LIKE, IF WE WE'RE, UM, IN DISAGREEMENT OR HAVE OUTLANDISH COMMENTS THAT ARE OFFENSIVE TO THE WORKERS, WE'RE NOT.

SO SOMEHOW WE NEED TO, AND I SPOKE WITH, UM, MR. MICHAEL ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HIS THOUGHTS AND HOW WE CAN COME TOGETHER AND THEY'RE WILLING TO WORK WITH US, BUT WE HAVE TO BE IN THE SAME TONGUE WILLING TO LISTEN, UNDERSTAND.

AND MAYBE WE, WE TAKE BITS AND PIECES AT A TIME, BUT I THINK IF WE CONTINUE TO GO DOWN THE SAME PATH AS OUR LAST MEETING, PROBABLY NOT.

THAT'S JUST MY OPINION.

RE REFRESH MY MEMORY.

IT WAS YOU COMMISSIONER KARA GOTTI AND, AND, UH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS.

COMMISSIONER CAROTTI HERE.

UH, COULD I GET A LITTLE BIT OF FEEDBACK FROM THE OTHER MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION, GET AN IDEA HOW THAT'S GOING? PUTTING YOU GUYS ON THE SPOT, I REALIZE, BUT I'LL TAKE WHAT I CAN GET.

SURE.

UM, I AGREE.

I THINK THAT, UM, WE NEED TO COME TOGETHER AND BUILD THE RELATIONSHIP WITH TEXAS GAS SERVICE.

I KNOW THAT IT'S BEEN AN ONGOING, UM, ISSUE OF US TRYING TO GET INFORMATION, TRYING TO GET DATA FROM THEM, TRYING TO HAVE A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THEY REPRESENT AND, AND TO MAKE SURE THAT IT IS FEASIBLE, UM, FOR THE COMMUNITY, RIGHT? SO THAT, THAT'S OUR MAIN GOAL, MAKING SURE IT'S FEASIBLE FOR THE COMMUNITY.

SO AS LONG AS WE CAN GET THAT INFORMATION AND GET THE INFORMATION IN A WAY THAT'S COMPASSIONATE AND KIND, UM, AND WORK WITH THEM WITH IT, I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN MOVE FORWARD WITH IT.

SO, AND UNFORTUNATELY, YOU KNOW, WE WEREN'T ABLE TO MEET, UM, HOPEFULLY WE CAN MEET IN THE NEXT WEEK OR TWO, UM, TO IRON ALL THIS OUT AND HA HAVE A MEETING OF THE MINDS AGAIN AND, AND SEE WHAT WE CAN DO TO MOVE FORWARD.

SO AT THIS POINT, IT, IT, IT'S YOUR BELIEF, I GUESS IN GENERAL THAT THERE'S STILL A GOOD PATH FORWARD THERE.

SO WE DON'T NEED TO BE PRESCRIPTIVE AT THIS POINT, BUT WE, WE CAN ALWAYS PULL THAT ONE OUT OF A HAT IF WE NEEDED TO.

UM, BUT AT THIS POINT, YOU STILL FEEL COMFORTABLE BEING ABLE TO WORK OUT SOMETHING WITH THEM.

IS THAT A, A, A, A FAIR STATEMENT? YEAH, I DO.

I DO.

JUST OUT OF MILD CURIOSITY, BECAUSE I DON'T HONESTLY KNOW, WHEN IS THE, IS IT THE TARIFF? WHAT THE ANNUAL THAT, WHEN THEY GO BACK THROUGH EVERY THREE YEARS? YEAH, EVERY THREE YEARS.

SO WHEN IS THE NEXT CYCLE? IT'LL START A YEAR FROM NOW.

WE'LL SUBMIT A BUDGET SEPTEMBER OF 2020, AND IT'LL ULTIMATELY BE APPROVED OR HAVE TO BY JANUARY 1ST.

I PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE HAD YOU STAND UP IN A MICROPHONE, INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND HAVE IT PUT IT IN THE RECORD, BUT, OH, WELL.

SO SEPTEMBER OF NEXT YEAR WOULD BE WHEN YOU'RE GONNA BE SUBMITTING THINGS.

SO THAT GIVES THIS, THIS WORKING GROUP, I DON'T KNOW, WE THAT WOULD SAY THAT GIVES YOU A GOOD THREE, FOUR MONTHS MORE TO BE ABLE TO CONTINUE POUNDING AWAY BEFORE, AT THAT POINT, IF WE FEEL LIKE WE'RE NOT MAKING ANY PROGRESS, THEN WE COULD ALWAYS WRITE A RESOLUTION THAT BASICALLY JUST SAYS, HERE'S WHAT WE SAY, AND TRY GETTING OUR TRY GETTING COUNSEL TO ACT UPON IT THAT WAY.

IS THAT FAIR? NO.

THE COMMISSIONER, GARY AND CAROTTI HAVE SEEN EARLIER VERSIONS OF THIS.

COMMISSIONER ROBBINS, TAKE US OR VICE CHAIR ROBBINS.

I'LL GET IT ONE OF THESE DAYS.

I PROMISE I'LL GET OVER IT.

UM, I MEAN, THE STATUS REALLY HASN'T GONE TO MY HEAD.

UH, OKAY.

FIRST I NEED TO TELL THE COMMISSION THAT I HAVE PERSONALLY SPENT ABOUT A MONTH OF UNPAID TIME CONDUCTING A STUDY OF ALL MAJOR GAS UTILITIES IN THE COUNTRY TO COMPARE, UH, HOW TEXAS GAS SERVICE GIVES REBATES.

AND, UM, ALTHOUGH, AND I CAN SEND THIS STUDY TO ALL OF YOU, UM,

[01:35:01]

UH, I SPENT A COUPLE MORE WEEKS AFTER THAT REFINING IT.

UH, IT WOULD BE FAIR TO SAY THAT, UH, VERY FEW IF ANY STUDIES, UH, LIKE THIS HAVE BEEN DONE.

AND IN SUMMARY, WHAT IT SHOWS IS THAT EVEN IF YOU BELIEVE THEIR PROGRAMS ARE COST EFFECTIVE AND SOME OF THEM ARE NOT, THE REBATE LEVELS THEMSELVES ARE MONSTROUSLY TOO HIGH COMPARED TO GAS UTILITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY, UH, I PERSONALLY, UH, DO NOT FEEL LIKE WE SHOULD WAIT ANY LONGER FOR SOMETHING THIS ELEMENTARY, WHEN TEXAS GAS SERVICE IS GIVING REBATES FOR GAS CONNECTIONS AND NO OTHER UTILITY IN THE COUNTRY EXCEPT OTHER AFFILIATED, UH, ONE GAS UTILITIES ARE GIVING SUCH A REBATE, IT'S KIND OF ACADEMIC THAT WE SHOULDN'T BE.

SO I WOULD LIKE TO PROPOSE THAT WE, UH, HAVE A RESOLUTION, UH, AS SOON AS POSSIBLE TO PROPOSE CUTTING, UH, THE REBATES SO THAT THEY MATCH THE PEER LEVELS OF THE OTHER UTILITIES.

NOW, REGARDING THE TIMING, WHAT, WHAT HAS JUST BEEN DISCUSSED THAT, WELL, THERE'S A THREE YEAR TARIFF AND THERE'S ONE YEAR LEFT IN THE TARIFF.

AND ALL THAT'S THE THEORY.

WHAT IN FACT HAPPENED IN THE LAST TARIFF IS THAT DUE TO A, UM, A, UM, READING OF THE WORDS BY THE CITY'S REGULATORY OFFICE, THEY COMPLETELY AVOIDED A THREE YEAR TARIFF HEARING.

THEY SAID, OH, WELL, THE ACTUAL TARIFF IS GOING DOWN BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT GIVING AS MANY REBATES, SO WE REALLY DON'T HAVE TO HAVE ANOTHER THREE YEAR RATE CASE.

AND KNOWING THE PERSON IN CHARGE AT THE CITY, I WOULD EXPECT THAT THIS KIND OF THING COULD EASILY HAPPEN AGAIN.

SO, UM, NO, IT'S NOT ANOTHER YEAR.

NOW, WHAT THE CITY COULD DO, MAYBE NOT WILL DO, BUT COULD DO, IS THE CITY COULD, UH, CHANGE THE TARIFF.

THEY, UH, THEY HAVE THAT, RIGHT? UH, THEY COULD SAY, WELL, WE DON'T HAVE TO WAIT THREE YEARS, WE CAN JUST DO IT THIS YEAR, AND IT WILL HAVE TO GO BEFORE CITY COUNCIL.

BUT IT'S ENTIRELY LEGAL.

AND I WOULD SUGGEST THAT WE GIVE THAT, UH, RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL.

UH, I MEAN THE, I MEAN, THEY'RE GIVING REBATES FOR, UH, GAS HOOKUPS THAT DON'T EXIST IN OTHER UTILITIES.

THEY'RE GIVING REBATES FOR FURNACES THAT ARE ABOUT THREE TIMES WHAT THEY ARE NATIONWIDE, UH, IF THEY WERE CALIBRATED TO AUSTIN'S CLIMATE.

AND I WOULD LIKE TO BRING THIS UP, VERY MUCH LIKE TO BRING THIS UP AT THE NEXT MEETING AND TOWARDS THE PROOF OF WHAT I'M SAYING, UM, I HAVE SPENT, UH, A HUGE AMOUNT OF TIME ON THIS.

I WILL SEND IT TO MS. GOODWIN SO THAT ALL MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION WILL HAVE IT.

I WILL MAKE SURE, DOUBLE, TRIPLE, SURE THAT TEXAS GAS SERVICE HAS IT.

UM, THERE'S, THERE'S REALLY NO WAY TO IGNORE THIS BLATANT, UH, MISUSE OF FUNDS.

SO, CAN I JUMP IN? THANK YOU SO MUCH, PLEASE, COMMISSIONER GARY.

AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW, WE COME TOGETHER AND TRY TO GET AND FLUSH THIS OUT.

UM, VICE CHAIR.

SO I, I WOULD SAY THAT MICHAEL JUST GOT ON BOARD A COUPLE OF MONTHS WITH TEXAS GAS.

I THINK GIVE US THE OPPORTUNITY TO WORK WITH THEM, YOU KNOW, BEFORE, IF YOU'RE GONNA SEND THE DOCUMENTATIONS TO TEXAS GAS, GIVE THEM

[01:40:01]

IF WE CAN'T DO THAT WITHIN A MONTH, THEN I PROBABLY WOULD BE LIKE, OKAY, OR TWO MONTHS.

WELL, LET'S GIVE US 60 DAYS BECAUSE WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO DO SOME BACK AND FORTH.

IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN OVERNIGHT.

UH, MYSELF AND, AND THE OTHER COMMISSIONER, WE'RE BRAND NEW, SO WE'RE TRYING TO FOSTER THAT RELATIONSHIP SO THEY CAN KNOW BOTH OF US AND ACTUALLY GET TO WORK TOGETHER.

AND SO I WOULD REQUEST THAT IF WE CAN JUST HOLD OFF, LET US GET THE INFORMATION WE NEED AND, AND, AND FOSTER THAT RELATIONSHIP, I BELIEVE WE CAN BRING SOMETHING THAT WILL BE PRODUCTIVE AND THAT THE COMMISSION COULD LOOK AT AND POTENTIALLY VOTE ON AND WE MOVE IN THAT DIRECTION.

THAT'S MY THOUGHTS.

THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER GARY.

UM, WHILE, WHILE I AM, UH, SPEAK, SPEAKING OF THAT, I DON'T BELIEVE I'VE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO, TO, TO MEET, UH, MR. PERO.

UH, I SEE YOU'RE ON THE CALL.

IF YOU COULD INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND JUST KINDA TELL US WHO YOU ARE, WHAT IT IS YOU DO WITH TEXAS GAS, THAT WAY YOU FEEL LIKE YOU GOT YOUR MONEY'S WORTH BY BEING ON THE ZOOM CALL TONIGHT.

YES, SIR.

CAN YOU HEAR ME? YES.

YES, SIR.

MY NAME IS MICHAEL DERMO.

I I WAS ACTUALLY AT THE LAST MEETING.

I SPOKE BRIEFLY ON THE PRESENTATION, BUT, UH, I I WAS ON THE BEACH.

SORRY, SUPERVISOR.

OH, NO WORRIES AT ALL.

I'M, I'M THE SUPERVISOR OF THE TEXAS PORTION OF THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM FOR ONE GAS.

UH, I'VE BEEN WITH THE COMPANY FOR A DECADE NOW.

I'M BARELY JOINING BOARD WITH THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY GROUP.

SO, LIKE JANELLE MENTIONED, UH, I'M WILLING TO WORK WITH YOU AND WANT TO, UH, WORK WITH YOU ON ANY OF THE ITEMS THAT WERE DISCUSSED.

BUT, UH, LIKE JANELLE MENTIONED, IF I COULD HAVE SOME TIME WITH THE INFORMATION, THAT WOULD DEFINITELY BE BENEFICIAL TO ME.

MAY I, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS, UH, TO COMMENT ON COMMISSIONER GARY'S REQUEST FOR MORE TIME? WELL, WE STARTED IN MAY.

IT'S NOW SEPTEMBER, AND WE HAVE A HARD AND FAST DEADLINE OF NOVEMBER 30.

THAT'S WHEN THE CITY'S LAST CHANCE TO, UH, DISALLOW, UH, BUDGET FOR ANOTHER YEAR.

THAT'S THE LAST CHANCE THEY HAVE TO APPROVE IT.

UH, AND, UH, WHAT I'D LIKE TO PROPOSE IS THAT WE VOTE ON SOMETHING AT OUR OCTOBER MEETING.

AND IF YOU CAN COME MIRACULOUS, I THINK IT'D BE MIRACULOUS.

BUT IF YOU THINK YOU CAN COME TO A RESOLUTION, UH, BY OUR NEXT MEETING, GO FOR IT.

UH, AND I, I'M SKEPTICAL, BUT I'M NOT ALWAYS RIGHT USUALLY, BUT NOT ALWAYS.

SO, UM, WITH THAT SAID, UH, I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THIS FOUND MONEY, WHICH I CALCULATE TO BE ABOUT A MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR, AND SPEND SOME OF THIS ON A PILOT PROGRAM, UH, FOR, UH, LOW INCOME ASSISTANCE, WHICH THEY CURRENTLY DO NOT HAVE.

WE HAVE A VERY EXPANSIVE PROGRAM FOR CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE IN WITH AUSTIN ENERGY AND AUSTIN WATER.

WE HAVE VERY LITTLE IN THAT REGARD FOR TEXAS GAS SERVICE.

UH, IF, AND YOU KNOW, MAYBE IF WE PASS IT IN OCTOBER, THE COUNCIL WILL NOT TAKE, UH, ACTION BY NOVEMBER 30TH, BUT MAYBE THEY WILL.

I'D LIKE TO AT LEAST HAVE THE CHANCE THERE.

ANY OTHER THOUGHTS, COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION? ALRIGHT, SO MY GENERAL THOUGHT WOULD BE YOU TAKE BOTH PATHS AT THE SAME TIME, RIGHT? YOU HAVE A RESOLUTION, YOU'VE BEEN DRAFTING, YOU GO ON AHEAD AND YOU DRAFT IT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, YOU CONTINUE TO WORK IN GOOD FAITH WITH TEXAS GAS ON THE WORKING GROUP THAT YOU HAVE RIGHT NOW, AND SEE IF YOU'RE ABLE TO GET TO A, WE'LL CALL IT GOOD ENOUGH SOLUTION, BETTER THAN WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW, WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE, AND SEE IF THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE CAN BASICALLY GET A GROUP TO AGREE UPON.

AND IF THE GROUP FEELS BY THE TIME THEY GET TO THE MEETING NEXT WEEK, NEXT MONTH, I WAS ABOUT TO SAY NEXT WEEK, UM, NEXT MONTH, THAT IT IS NOT A PATH FORWARD, THEN YOU HAVE A RESOLUTION UNDERSTANDING.

YOU MAY HAVE TROUBLE FINDING ENOUGH SUPPORT TO BE ABLE TO GET THAT ACROSS THE FINISH LINE IF YOUR FELLOW WORKING GROUP MEMBERS STILL FEEL LIKE THEY CAN GET WHERE THEY WANT TO GO.

BUT THAT COULD BE YOUR PATH FORWARD IS TO HAVE AN A AND A B THAT YOU HAVE HERE AT THE MEETING NEXT MONTH.

FINE BY ME.

UH, NATASHA, WHAT DO WE HAVE FOR, CAN YOU HEAR ME FOR, UM, NEXT MONTH WE HAVE, UM, THE TEXAS GAS SERVICE RESOLUTION THAT, UM, COMMISSIONER ROBBINS, UM, HAS ALREADY SUBMITTED APPROVAL OF THE 2024 R M C, UH, MEETING SCHEDULE.

IS THERE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS ITEM? THERE

[01:45:01]

BEING NONE.

UH, FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS?

[FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]

UM, TONIGHT YOU JUST, UM, ASK TO ADD THE REPURPOSING OF THE GREEN CHOICE PROGRAM ONTO OCTOBER'S AGENDA AND ALSO A UPDATE FROM THE WORKING GROUP.

THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE FOR OCTOBER.

THAT SOUNDS GOOD.

ARE THERE ANY STAFF UPDATES NEXT MONTH OR WE GET A PASS? NO.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER ITEMS THAT SHOULD BE ADDED TO THE AGENDA FOR NEXT MONTH? COMMISSIONER BREAD? I HAVE A FEW THINGS TO BRING UP.

UM, I'M NOT SURE IF THIS CAN BE ANSWERED TODAY OR NEXT TIME.

UM, BUT I KNOW THAT WE SENT THAT RESOLUTION TO CITY COUNCIL TO BRING TEXAS GAS INTO OUR PURVIEW.

HAS THERE BEEN ANY DEVELOPMENT ON THAT? UH, NOT, NOT THAT I'M AWARE.

IS THERE A WAY FOR US TO GET AN UPDATE ON THAT? WOULD THAT BE SOMETHING YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO FIND OUT, AMY OR NATASHA, AS TO WHAT THE ULTIMATE DISPOSITION OF THAT RESOLUTION WAS? SORRY FOR PUTTING YOU ON THE SPOT YOU JUST MADE I AWKWARD EYE CONTACT FIRST.

THAT'S YOUR FAULT.

UM, SO IT'S JUST ANYTIME A COMMISSION SENDS OR APPROVES A RESOLUTION AND SENDS IT UP TO COUNCIL, IT'S JUST UP TO COUNCIL TO TAKE IT ON.

THEY HAVE NOT TAKEN IT ON SO FAR.

SO IF A, UM, COUNCIL MEMBER WANTS TO TAKE IT ON, THEN THEY'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR GETTING CO-SPONSORS, PUTTING IT ON THE COUNCIL AGENDA, ET CETERA.

I HAVE NOT HEARD, UM, OF ANYBODY PICKING IT UP QUITE YET.

UM, AND IT HAS NOT BEEN ON A COUNCIL AGENDA EITHER.

THAT'S HELPFUL.

UM, MY NEXT TOPIC WAS THAT I'M CURIOUS ABOUT HEARING ABOUT ECAT, AND I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT ON THIS COMMISSION BEFORE.

UM, PAUL HAS SOME THOUGHTS.

GIVE HER THE, THE, THE NICKEL TOUR, PLEASE.

WELL, STAFF CAN DO THIS IN THEIR OWN WAY.

AND IF YOU WOULD LIKE A BRIEFING ON ECAT, I'M SURE THAT, I'M SORRY, WE CAN, WE CAN ADD THAT TO THE AGENDA NEXT.

UH, IT'S NOT MY FAVORITE PROGRAM, .

I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR ABOUT IT.

I DOESN'T NEED TO BE NEXT MONTH.

I ACTUALLY WON'T BE HERE NEXT MONTH, BUT JUST IN GENERAL, I THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD FOR US TO HEAR ABOUT IT.

GREAT.

UM, AND THEN ONE MORE THOUGHT I HAD OF SOMETHING ELSE I'D LIKE TO HEAR ABOUT.

SORRY, EVERYBODY IS, UM, THE AUSTIN SUSTAINABILITY OR, UM, CLIMATE EQUITY PLAN, UM, IMPLEMENTATION OF LIKE HOW THAT'S GOING IN TERMS OF REDUCING, UM, ENERGY FOR BUILDINGS.

THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING NICE TO HEAR ABOUT AS WELL, IF THAT'S IN OUR PURVIEW.

AND IT'S OKAY IF IT'S NOT.

ARE ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE 2030 PLAN? OKAY.

PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF.

, THERE'S A LOT OF NUMBERS AND, AND THINGS LIKE THAT ATTACHED TO IT.

LIKE WE HAVE, SOMEBODY'S COMING TO THE MICROPHONE.

GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS.

MY NAME IS SARAH NORRIS.

I'M THE DIRECTOR OF ENERGY EFFICIENCY SERVICES.

UM, SO WE, WE CAN PROVIDE A BRIEFING OF THE SORT OF CLIMATE EQUITY SPECIFIC, YOU KNOW, ALIGNMENT GOALS THAT WE ALSO TRACK TOWARDS.

THERE'S SOME THAT WERE SPUN OUT SPECIFICALLY FROM THE CLIMATE EQUITY PLAN, BUT AUSTIN ENERGY IS ACTUALLY GOVERNED SEPARATELY BY THE GENERATION AND RESOURCE PLAN.

UM, I THINK YOU GUYS ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE PROCESS THAT WE ARE GOING THROUGH RIGHT NOW TO UPDATE THAT.

AND SOME OF THAT INITIATIVE INCLUDES LOOKING AT WAYS THAT WE CAN CONNECT THE DOTS BETWEEN THE TWO PLANTS.

SO HAPPY TO HAVE A SPECIFIC CONVERSATION ABOUT ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND THE ACT ACTIVITIES THAT HAVE BEEN, UM, GOING ON WITHIN THAT SPACE, WITHIN BUILDINGS ACROSS THE CITY.

UM, BUT WOULD WANT A LITTLE BIT MORE GUIDANCE FROM THE COMMISSION ABOUT SPECIFICALLY WHAT TYPE OF DATA YOU WERE LOOKING FOR.

GOTCHA.

I THINK I PROBABLY NEED TO BETTER FORMULATE MY QUESTION.

MAYBE WE CAN EMAIL ON THE SIDE.

COMMISSIONER BRENN.

ABSOLUTELY.

COMMISSIONER BRENN.

UM, YOUR, UM, YOUR QUESTION IS PRESCIENT.

THERE WAS A FORMER COMMISSIONER AND CHAIR OF THE RMM AT ONE TIME, CHAIR OF THE R M C DANA HARMON, WHO ENTERTAINED THAT AUSTIN ENERGY SHOULD EXPAND ITS PURVIEW TO LOOK AT THE, TO

[01:50:01]

ENCOMPASS THE CLIMATE EQUITY PLAN.

UH, NOT JUST THE ENERGY PARTS OF IT, BUT ALL OF IT.

UH, I DON'T THINK THERE IS ONE, UH, COMMISSIONER JOHNSON MIGHT KNOW THIS, BUT I DON'T THINK THERE IS A COMMISSION THAT LOOKS AT ALL OF IT AND IT MIGHT BE GOOD IF THERE WAS ONE.

MAY I SPEAK? SORRY.

THAT'S OKAY.

, I DON'T NECESSARILY THINK WE NEED.

COMMISSIONER JOHNSON JUST TURNED THIS CAMERA BACK ON AND SO IT KIND OF CAUGHT MY EYE AS A RESULT, BUT PLEASE GO AHEAD, COMMISSIONER BRIAN.

SURE.

SORRY, REAL QUICK.

COMMISSIONER JOHNSON, I DON'T NECESSARILY THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE WHOLE CLIMATE EQUITY PLAN.

I WAS JUST CURIOUS ABOUT, UM, GOALS FOR REDUCING ENERGY USAGE AND, UM, EMBODIED CARBON IN BUILDINGS AND WANTED TO HEAR AN UPDATE ON THE IMPLEMENTATION OF, OF HOW THAT'S GOING.

THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION, AND I UNFORTUNATELY DON'T HAVE AN UPDATE, UH, MYSELF, UH, TO RESPOND TO PAUL'S, UM, QUESTION OR FRAMING.

THE, THE JOINT SUSTAINABILITY COMMITTEE IS CHARGED WITH AN EX TO AN EXTENT, UH, LOOKING AT THE CLIMATE PLAN AS A WHOLE.

AND THERE, THE, THE BODY BEST SITUATED TO DO THAT.

UM, WHAT I WOULD SAY, UH, IS THAT A SHORTCOMING OF THE CLIMATE EQUITY PLAN IS THAT IT DIDN'T HAVE A LOT OF TEETH TO IT AND HAS NO FORMAL, UM, PURVIEW OVER MOST CITY DEPARTMENTS.

AND SO CITY DEPARTMENTS IMPLEMENTING THE GOALS OR STANDARDS OF THE CLIMATE EQUITY PLAN IS ENTIRELY OPTIONAL FOR DEPARTMENT OR BY DEPARTMENT OR BY OFFICE.

AND SO WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THAT IN DISCUSSIONS MYSELF AND KABA, WHO WAS A, WAS ON THE R M C, UH, WAS VICE CHAIR AND IS NOW ON THE E U C, UM, WE TALKED A LOT WITH THE OFFICE OF SUSTAINABILITY ABOUT THIS THROUGH WHICH THE PLAN WAS CREATED.

UM, AND THERE JUST WAS A LOT OF, UM, FRANKLY, OFFICES AND DEPARTMENTS SORT OF OPTING OUT OF IMPLEMENTING ASPECTS OF THE CLIMATE EQUITY PLAN.

COMMISSIONER DAVIS, YOU HAD A HAND UP? YES.

UM, SO I AM THE R M C REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE JOINT SUSTAINABILITY COMMITTEE.

UM, AND COMMISSIONER FARMER, UH, AS WELL IS ON, UH, ONE OF THE WORKING GROUPS THAT THAT COMMITTEE HAS.

SO THE J S C HAS WORKING GROUPS FOR THE DIFFERENT PIECES OF THE CLIMATE EQUITY PLAN, SO TRANSPORTATION, ELECTRIFICATION, SUSTAINABLE BUILDINGS, UH, FOOD AND NATURAL RESOURCES, FOOD AND CONSUMPTION AND NATURAL RESOURCES, UM, OR NATURAL SYSTEMS RATHER.

AND SO EACH OF THOSE WORKING GROUPS, UM, WILL HAVE MEMBERS FROM THE J J S C, WHICH REPRESENT DIFFERENT CITY BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS, AS WELL AS EXTERNAL, UM, MEMBERS IF, IF THEY'RE, IF THEY'RE THAT LUCKY.

AND SO EACH OF THOSE WORKING GROUPS IS, UH, CHARGED WITH COMING UP WITH RECOMMENDATIONS TO MOVE US FURTHER ALONG ON THE CLIMATE EQUITY PLAN.

BUT, UM, WHAT SHANE SAID IS, IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

A LOT OF THE GOALS IN THAT PLAN WERE, WERE NOT, UM, FUNDED.

THERE WERE NOT, UM, YOU KNOW, ACCOUNTABILITY STANDARDS.

SO WE'RE PUSHING TO GET MORE OF THOSE THINGS IN THERE.

MORE OF THE, UM, REPORTING, MORE OF SPECIFIC EQUITY ACCOUNTING, THINGS LIKE THAT.

UM, BUT IT IS, YOU KNOW, IT IS DEFINITELY A, A CHALLENGE.

UM, BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, TO THE POINT ABOUT WHICH, WHICH GROUP KIND OF SEES THAT, THAT IS THE J S C WORKING IN, UH, CONJUNCTION WITH THE OFFICE OF SUSTAINABILITY.

SO YEAH, I MEAN, IF YOU WANTED TO, YOU KNOW, KIND OF WORK UP WHAT YOUR QUESTION MIGHT BE, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU CAN SEND A NOTE OVER TO NATASHA SAYING, HEY, CAN YOU REACH OUT TO AUSTIN ENERGY AND SEE IF THEY CAN GIVE A PRESENTATION? AND, AND SHE'S VERY GOOD ABOUT TRYING TO LEVEL LOAD OUR STAFF PRESENTATION SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE SIX OF THEM IN ONE MEETING AND THEN NONE IN THE NEXT.

SO, UM, WE, WE CAN CERTAINLY ACCOMMODATE SOMETHING LIKE THAT IN THE FUTURE.

ALL RIGHT.

IT APPEARS WE'VE REACHED THE NATURAL END OF DISCUSSION.

UH, IF THAT IS THE CASE, OH, OOPS.

SORRY, COMMISSIONER FARMER JUMPING AT THE LAST POSSIBLE SECOND.

UM, I JUST WANTED TO PUT ON FOR FUTURE DISCUSSION NEXT MONTH OR WHENEVER WE CAN LEVEL LOAD IT.

UH, A UH, ONE OF THE THINGS WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON IN THAT WORKING GROUP IS LOOKING AT A, UH, PILOT PROGRAM TO INCENTIVIZE, UH, LOW INCOME HOUSING PROJECTS TO, UH, CERTIFY WITH A PASSIVE HOUSE STANDARD, WHICH IS A, THE SORT OF MOST RIGOROUS AND AGGRESSIVE ENERGY EFFICIENCY, UH, BENCHMARK THAT WE

[01:55:01]

HAVE.

UM, A NUMBER OF OTHER CITIES AND STATES AROUND THE COUNTRIES.

SORRY, CAN YOU GUYS HEAR ME ? UM, YEAH.

SO PILOT PROGRAM, THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IN THAT, UH, THE J SS C WORKING GROUP, UM, BUT PARROTING A MASSACHUSETTS PILOT PROGRAM THAT FUNDED, UH, 10 LOW INCOME SUPPORTIVE HOUSING PROJECTS.

UH, UH, BASICALLY COVERED $4,000 PER UNIT.

SO THAT'S SORT OF THE LAST MILE FUNDING TO GO FOR, UH, PASSIVE HOUSE CERTIFICATION, WHICH IS THE MOST AGGRESSIVE ENERGY, UH, CODE THAT WE HAVE.

UH, AND IT WAS A WILDLY SUCCESSFUL PROGRAM.

AND NOW MASSACHUSETTS, IT'S IMPLEMENTED THAT CERTIFICATION AS THEIR ENERGY CODE FOR MULTIFAMILY ACROSS THE STATE.

UM, SO I JUST WANTED TO KIND OF PRESENT AND WORK THROUGH, UH, AN INITIATIVE AROUND THAT MAYBE WITH YOUR, UH, APPRENTICING UNDER YOUR PROGRAM TO HELP, UH, COME UP WITH A RESOLUTION.

UM, YEAH, WE CAN CERTAINLY ADD THAT ON.

UM, HOW'S, HOW'S OCTOBER LOOKING AS FAR AS AN AGENDA VERSUS NOVEMBER? WHERE WOULD YOU WANNA SLOT THAT NATASHA? NOVEMBER.

UH, RIGHT NOW, NOVEMBER, ALL WE HAVE IS AN UPDATE FROM TEXAS GAS SERVICE AND AN UPDATE FROM AUSTIN WATER.

SO LET'S SLIDE IT FOR NOVEMBER.

IN THE MEANTIME, WE CAN KIND OF TALK OFFLINE A LITTLE BIT AND I CAN, 'CAUSE, YOU KNOW, I'M PRETTY SURE I MISSPELLED IT AND STILL UNDERSTAND WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT.

UM, SO THAT WOULD PROBABLY HELP ME GET A BETTER UNDERSTANDING WHAT IS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, THAT WE CAN KIND OF FIGURE OUT WHAT WOULD MAKE SENSE.

UM, I WILL, FOR PURPOSES OF DISCUSSION, UH, CO-SPONSOR IT AS WELL.

THERE YOU GO.

OR I COULD ALSO JUST LET YOU AND PAUL WORK IT OUT TOGETHER AND I COULD JUST SET THIS ONE OUT.

I'M, I'M A HUGE FAN OF THAT TOO, BUT NO, NO.

WE'LL FIGURE IT OUT.