Oct 17, 2023 Resource Management

UM, ITEM FOUR, DISCUSS AND APPROVE THE 2024 RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION MEETING SCHEDULE.

UH, ARE THERE ANY, UH, NO VOTES OR ABSTENTIONS? OKAY.

THE MOTION PASSES UNANIMOUSLY AND, UH, THE, WE'RE GONNA TAKE THINGS A BIT OUT OF ORDER.

UH, FIRST,

[4. Discuss and approve the 2024 Resource Management Commission Meeting Schedule. ]

UH, THIS HAS, UH, BEEN SENT TO ALL THE COMMISSIONERS, UH, IN YOUR, UM, PACKET.

UH, IS THERE, UH, ANY DISCUSSION OR DISSENSION? OKAY, I WAS QUICK.

UM, COULD WE, UH, HAVE A SHOW OF HANDS? ALL IN FAVOR? I MOVE.

IS THERE A SECOND? I TRY.

SECOND.

UM, ALL IN FAVOR, UH, SAY OR RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.

I ANY DISSENSIONS? ANY ABSTENTIONS? MOTION PASSES UNANIMOUSLY.

UM,

[3. Discussion on repurposing the GreenChoice Program. (Sponsors: Robbins, Stone, Silverstein) ]

I DON'T KNOW THAT, UH, THEY HAVE BEEN ANSWERED YET.

WE'RE GOING TO TAKE UP, UH, ITEM NUMBER TWO, UM, REGARDING, UM, WELL LET, LET'S TAKE UP, UH, ITEM THREE FIRST.

'CAUSE THERE'S LIKELY NOT GONNA BE A LOT OF DISCUSSION TONIGHT.

THIS IS A REPORT ON THE GREEN CHOICE PROGRAM.

UM, I JUST WANTED TO TELL PEOPLE THAT I MET WITH, UH, RICHARD GENESEE AND, UM, TIM HARVEY OF AUSTIN ENERGY, AND WE DISCUSSED THE CONCEPT IN, UM, IN, UH, UNSPECIFIC WAYS, JUST A GENERIC CONCEPT.

UH, THEY SEEMED, UH, GENERALLY FAVORABLE TO IT.

AND THEY, UH, RICHARD, UH, GENESEE SAID THAT HE WOULD, UH, UH, TAKE THIS UP THE CHAIN TO OTHER PEOPLE IN THE AUSTIN ENERGY LEADERSHIP.

I KNOW THAT, UH, ALLISON, UH, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN HAS, UH, SUBMITTED A LIST OF, UH, QUESTIONS.

UM,

[00:05:01]

I'M SURE THEY'LL BE ANSWERED AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

UM, THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO REPORT.

UH, UH, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD AT THIS POINT? COMMISSIONER SILVER SENIOR.

MUTED.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, NATASHA.

THE AUSTIN ENERGY.

MY, MY INTEREST IN THE TOPIC OF, UM, THE AUSTIN GREEN ENERGY GREEN CHOICE PROGRAM IS WITH RESPECT TO WHETHER THIS PROGRAM IS STILL APPROPRIATE AND IS IT NEEDED GIVEN THAT AUSTIN ENERGY IS SO SIGNIFICANTLY SURPASSING THE AMOUNTS THAT ARE COMMITTED UNDER THE GREEN CHOICE OPPORTUNITY.

IT REFLECTS OLD EXPENSIVE CONTRACTS RATHER THAN NEW CONTRACTS FOR WIND AND SOLAR.

AND I AM, IT IS NOT CLEAR TO ME THAT THE AUSTIN CUSTOMERS WHO ARE SUBSCRIBING ARE GETTING THEIR MONEY'S WORTH OUT OF THIS.

AND SO I DO NOT GO AS FAR AS COMMISSIONER ROBBINS IN RECOMMENDING THAT WE REPURPOSE THE PROGRAM FOR OTHER PURPOSES, SO MUCH AS WANTING TO EVALUATE ITS PURPOSE AND VALUE TODAY FOR AUSTIN ENERGY CUSTOMERS.

SO THAT IS THE TOPIC ON WHICH I ADDRESSED A NUMBER OF QUESTIONS TO STAFF AND HAVE RECEIVED PARTIAL RESPONSES TO THEM.

I WILL LEAVE IT TO THE CHAIR AND MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS TO DECIDE HOW AND WHEN TO DISCUSS THESE.

UH, GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS.

UM, I WOULD MAKE THE, UM, SUGGESTION THAT WE, UM, WAIT UNTIL THE NOVEMBER OR JANUARY MEETING WHEN ALL YOUR QUESTIONS ARE ANSWERED.

I ALWAYS ADMIRE OPTIMISM.

MR. ROBIN THINKY.

DID YOU HEAR THAT? UH, UH, RICHARD, UH, SHE CALLED ME OPTIMISTIC.

DID HEAR THAT.

UM, OKAY.

UM, UM, WELL THEN MAYBE IF SOME OF THEM ARE ANSWERED, MAYBE WE SHOULD STILL TAKE IT UP AT THE NOVEMBER MEETING, UM, REGARDING, UM, NUMBER, UH, ITEM TWO PRESENTATION OF TEXAS.

SO, EXCUSE ME.

SO WHAT ARE WE DOING WITH ITEM NUMBER THREE? OH, I WAS GOING TO, UH, I'M NOT IGNORING YOU AT ALL.

UH, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE UP, UH, ALL THE GAS COMPANY THINGS AT ONCE, AND IF YOU WOULD RATHER GO NOW.

NO, NO, NO, NO.

I'M SORRY.

YOU'RE NOT IGNORING ME.

I WAS STILL ON ITEM NUMBER THREE, SO I DIDN'T KNOW WE HAD MOVED FORWARD BECAUSE I, OH, FORGIVE ME.

UH, UH, DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO ADD? YEAH, SO I WANTED TO HEAR FROM, UM, FROM RICHARD JUST TO GET HIS TAKE.

I KNOW YOU VOICED THAT HE WAS IN SOME SORT OF AGREEMENT, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR HIS TAKE ON IT BRIEFLY, IF POSSIBLE.

UH, HE JUST HOPE SO HAPPENS TO BE IN THE AUDIENCE.

RICHARD GENESEE, VICE PRESIDENT OF CUSTOMER ENERGY SOLUTIONS FOR AUSTIN ENERGY.

SO, UH, YES, WE DID MEET WITH, UH, VICE, UH, CHAIR ROBBINS, UH, MYSELF AND TIM HARVEY, UH, THE MANAGER OF THE CUSTOMER, UH, RENEWABLE SOLUTIONS GROUP.

AND WE DID, UH, IN VERY GENERAL TERMS, DISCUSS, UH, THE ELEMENTS OF MR. UH, CHAIR ROBIN, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS PROPOSAL.

AND I INFORMED, UH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS THAT WE HAVE TO, UH, SOCIALIZE THAT AND SHARE THAT WITH OTHER MEMBERS OF THE AUSTIN ENERGY EXECUTIVE TEAM.

AND SO THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE ARE.

AND THEN AFTER THAT, WE WOULD COME BACK AND, AND DISCUSS, UM, UH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS PROPOSAL.

WILL THIS, UM, DISCUSSION HAPPEN PRIOR TO, WITH YOUR TEAM, PRIOR TO NOVEMBER? OR IS IT MORE OF A LONG DISCUSSION? YOU KNOW, I, IT HASN'T BEEN SCHEDULED YET, SO I, I WOULD, UH, SAY THE LIKELIHOOD OF IT HAPPENING BEFORE NOVEMBER IS HIGH.

UH, BUT IT HAS YET TO BE SCHEDULED.

ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS? THANK YOU,

[00:10:01]

COMMISSIONER.

GARY, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD? UH, ARE THERE ANY OTHER COMMISSIONERS THAT, UH, HAVE QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ON THIS ITEM? OKAY.

UH,

[2. Presentation by Texas Gas Service regarding the Central Texas Energy Efficiency Program Overview by Jasmine King-Bush, Energy Efficiency Program Manager. (Sponsors: Gary, Carugati) ]

I WOULD SUGGEST THAT, WELL, MOSTLY EVERYTHING LEFT IS RELATED TO TEXAS GAS SERVICE, SO I'M GONNA SUGGEST THAT WE LET THE COMPANY GIVE ITS PRESENTATION.

AND FOLLOWING THAT, UH, WE, UH, GET, UH, ITEM SEVEN IF THERE IS AN UPDATE FROM COMMISSIONERS, GARY AND KARA GOTTI ON THE WORKING GROUP.

AND THEN TAKE UP, UH, ITEMS FIVE AND SIX REGARDING RESOLUTIONS ON THIS.

UH, VICE CHAIR, BEFORE THEY BEGIN, I JUST WANT TO LET THE COMMISSIONERS KNOW THAT, THAT THIS COMMITTEE WAS OF THREE, UH, MEMBERS AND THE REASON WHY TEXAS GAS IS HERE, BECAUSE WE NEED TO EDUCATE THE MEMBERS THAT ARE NEW.

BEFORE WE VOTE ON ANY OTHER RESOLUTIONS THAT HAVE COME FORTH, I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION TO MAKE AN INFORMATIVE DECISION.

SO MYSELF AND, UH, COMMISSIONER KARA GOTTI, WE DECIDED TO BRING TEXAS GAS BACK SO THEY EXPLAIN THEIR PROCESS AND THEN YOU CAN ASK THEM QUESTIONS IN ORDER TO MAKE THAT DECISION.

GOOD EVENING.

R M C COMMISSIONERS.

MY NAME IS MICHAEL PADMORE.

I'M THE SUPERVISOR OF THE CENTRAL TEXAS ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM.

UH, I'M HERE NOT TO PROVIDE A PRESENTATION.

UH, THAT'S BASICALLY GONNA LAY OUT AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROGRAM AS A WHOLE.

UM, LIKE C COMMISSIONER GARY SAID, THIS MAY BE A REFRESHER FOR SOME, BUT SOME NEW INFORMATION FOR OTHERS.

SO REGARDLESS, APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

UM, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

UH, WE'LL START OFF WITH SOME QUICK BULLET POINTS ON OUR PROGRAM.

UH, OUR PROGRAM INCENTIVIZES REBATES FOR NATURAL GAS APPLIANCES, WEATHERIZATION, SMART KITS, WATER WEATHERIZATION, SMART THERMOSTATS, AND WATER SAVING KITS.

WE ALSO PROVIDE INCOME QUALIFIED HOMES WITH FREE NATURAL GAS APPLIANCES.

OUR PROGRAM IS AVAILABLE TO APPROXIMATELY 240,000 CUSTOMERS ACROSS 18 CITIES.

THAT WOULD BE AUSTIN AND THE SURROUNDING AREAS.

UM, OUR TOTAL PROGRAM BUDGET THAT WE DEAL WITH ON AN ANNUAL BASIS IS $3.5 MILLION.

UM, WE RECEIVED APPROVAL FOR THE WAY OUR PROGRAM IS CURRENTLY, UH, RAN IN 2021.

THAT COVERS THE YEAR'S 20 22, 20 23, AND 2024.

UM, OUR PROGRAM RECEIVED THE A D M REVIEW IN 2020.

IN ADDITION TO THAT, WE HAVE AN ANNUAL E M E M N V REVIEW THAT IS DONE BY A THIRD PARTY.

THE NEXT SLIDE IS JUST, UH, IT'S CHART THAT SHOWCASES, UH, OUR ANNUAL BUDGET IN COMPARISON TO OUR YEAR TO DATE NUMBERS.

UM, OUR BUDGET WOULD BE THE ORANGE.

OUR YEAR TO DATE NUMBERS UP THROUGH SEPTEMBER, UH, CAN BE FOUND IN BLUE.

THIS IS JUST A BRIEF VIEW OF THE APPLIANCE REBATES THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO OUR RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS.

UM, YOU CAN SEE THEM ALL LAID OUT.

WE PROVIDE REBATES ON WATER HEATERS, DRYERS AND FURNACES.

THAT'S BOTH FOR RETROFIT AND NEW CONSTRUCTION.

THE RETROFIT BEING OUR EXISTING CUSTOMERS, AND THEN NEW CONSTRUCTION BEING THE BUILDERS THAT BUILD WITHIN OUR ELIGIBLE AREAS.

UM, THIS IS A SIMILAR VIEW, BUT THIS IS FOR THE REBATES THAT WE HAVE AVAILABLE TO OUR ELIGIBLE COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS.

UM, AGAIN, WE PROVIDE REBATES ON WATER HEATERS, DRYERS, AND, UH, ELIGIBLE FOOD SERVICE EQUIPMENT THAT IS ENERGY STAR RATED.

WE ALSO HAVE A PROGRAM FOR NATURAL GAS VEHICLES, ALTHOUGH IT ISN'T UTILIZED VERY MUCH IN THIS REGION.

OH, NOW SPEAK ON SOME OF THE OTHER PROGRAMS. WE ADMINISTER, UM, THROUGH OUR PROGRAMS, STARTING WITH OUR DIRECT INSTALL EFFORTS.

THAT IS ADMINISTERED BY CLEAR RESULT.

UH, CLEAR RESULT WORKS WITH OUR VARIOUS C COMMERCIAL PREMISES TO PROVIDE SINK, AERATORS, LOW FLOW SHOWER HEADS, PRE RINSE SPRAY VALVES, WEATHER STRIPPING, STEAM TRAPS, AND DRYER SMART DEVICES.

WE HAVE APPROXIMATELY $235,000 ALLOTTED TO THIS EFFORT THAT WE CAN UTILIZE EACH YEAR.

ARE FOR BATHROOMS, ONE OF THOSE IS FOR THE KITCHEN SINK.

NEXT UP IS OUR WATER SAVING KITS PROGRAM.

UM, OUR WATER SAVING KITS ARE AVAILABLE TO ELIGIBLE CUSTOMERS WHO REQUEST THE KIT.

UM, WHEN THEY REQUEST ONE, THEY RECEIVE A PACKAGE THAT CONTAINS THREE SINK AERATORS.

TWO OF THOSE AERATORS

[00:15:01]

IN ADDITION TO THAT, THEY'LL RECEIVE A LOW FLOW SHOWER HEAD AND THE TAPE, THE PLUMBING TAPE THAT IS NEEDED TO INSTALL IT.

UM, YEAR TO DATE, WE HAVE JUST OVER 2,500 REQUESTS FOR THESE, AND THOSE HAVE BEEN SENT OUT.

AGAIN, THIS PROGRAM IS AT NO COST TO THE CUSTOMERS.

IT'S A WATER SAVING EFFORT.

AND SOMETIMES, UH, PEOPLE DON'T SEE THE CORRELATION BETWEEN THE WATER SAVING AND NATURAL GAS.

BUT IF THEY'RE NOT UTILIZING THE WATER, THEY'RE NOT HAVING TO HEAT IT.

THAT'S WHERE THAT COMES INTO PLAY.

UH, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

THE NEXT PROGRAM IS OUR HOME PERFORMANCE WITH ENERGY STAR PROGRAM THAT WE PARTNER WITH AUSTIN ENERGY ON.

UM, THIS PARTICULAR PROGRAM, UH, PROVIDES REBATES ON SMART THERMOSTATS, ATTIC INSTALLATION, DUCT CEILING, AND DUCT REPLACEMENTS.

WE SPENT JUST OVER $130,000 ON OUR PART YEAR TO DATE ON THIS EFFORT.

NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.

UH, LAST UP.

I'LL SPEAK ON OUR LOW INCOME FREE EQUIPMENT PROGRAM.

THIS PROGRAM PROVIDES NEW NATURAL GAS APPLIANCES TO INCOME ELIGIBLE CUSTOMERS REFERRED TO US BY LOCAL AGENCIES.

THOSE AGENCIES TAKE CARE OF THE INCOME QUALIFYING PORTION BEFORE THEY SEND US THE REFERRALS FOR THESE APPLIANCE REPLACEMENTS.

YEAR TO DATE, WE'VE SPENT JUST OVER $355,000 ON THIS EFFORT TO PROVIDE THESE IN NEED CUSTOMERS WITH ENERGY EFFICIENT APPLIANCES, UM, AND ANY ASSOCIATED RETROFIT THAT RETROFITTING THAT GOES ALONG WITH IT.

NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.

UH, I'LL END THIS PRESENTATION BY SPEAKING ON OUR EDUCATION AND OUTREACH EFFORTS.

SOME OF THE WAYS WE GET THE WORD OUT ON OUR PROGRAM IS VIA RADIO.

UH, YOU CAN HEAR OUR ADS ON SUN RADIO OR K U T OR K U T X.

UH, IN ADDITION TO THAT, WE'RE ALSO SPREADING THE WORD DIGITALLY VIA SOCIAL MEDIA ON E-BLAST AND ON WEB ADVERTISEMENTS.

UH, LASTLY, WE TAKE PART IN ANY COMMUNITY EVENT THAT WE CAN GET, UH, A PART OF.

SOME OF THE ONES THAT ARE MENTIONED ARE THE M L K FESTIVAL, THE ZUCKER KITE FESTIVAL, THE TEXAS BOOK FESTIVAL.

ANYWHERE WHERE WE CAN FIND A LARGE AMOUNT OF ELIGIBLE CUSTOMERS THAT WE CAN ENGAGE AND SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT OUR PROGRAM.

MANY OF THESE PROGRAMS WE ACTUALLY WORK, UH, ALONGSIDE AUSTIN ENERGY, SO THEY COULD SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT THEIR PROGRAM WHILE WE'RE SPREADING THE WORD ABOUT OURS.

UM, IN ADDITION TO THAT, OUR PROGRAM OFFERINGS, OUR FACT SHEETS, OUR ENERGY EFFICIENCY TIPS AND OUR LATEST ANNUAL REPORTS CAN BE FOUND ON OUR WEBSITE@TEXASGASSERVICE.COM SLASH REBATES.

AND THAT'S JUST A BRIEF OVERVIEW OF OUR PROGRAM.

IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, I'LL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER THEM.

IF I CAN'T ANSWER THEM, I DON'T BELIEVE JASMINE MADE IT ONLINE, BUT IF I CAN ANSWER THEM, OH, I'M HERE.

WELL, ONE OF US WILL BE ABLE TO ANSWER COMMISSIONERS.

ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? I HAVE A QUESTION.

CAN Y'ALL HEAR ME? YES, MA'AM.

UH, THIS IS MELISSA COMMISSIONER CARTI.

UH, ONE QUESTION I HAVE IS ON ONE OF THOSE SLIDES ON THE YEAR TO DATE, WHAT IS THE YEAR TO DATE REPRESENTING? IS IT REPRESENTING YOUR ACTUAL MONEY SPENT? CORRECT.

JANUARY THROUGH DECEMBER.

COULD YOU GO BACK TO THAT SLIDE REALLY QUICK? AND IS YOUR BUDGET FROM SEPTEMBER, UH, IS YOUR BUDGET FROM THE FISCAL YEAR STARTING OF SEPTEMBER? THE ORANGE IS OUR BUDGET FROM JANUARY TO FE.

SORRY, IT'S A CALENDAR YEAR.

AND I HAD ONE MORE QUESTION.

UM, UM, AND I KNOW THIS IS KIND OF THE QUESTION THAT WE'VE KIND OF ALL GONE, GONE OVER, UM, BEFORE, BUT WHAT IS, UH, I GUESS THE EFFICACY OF OFFERING THE SAME REBATES ACROSS SEVERAL UTILITIES? UM, IS IT BECAUSE THERE'S NOT ENOUGH REBATE FUNDING ACROSS ALL THE UTILITIES? SO WE'RE GONNA OFFER 'EM ACROSS SEVERAL DIFFERENT UTILITIES, LIKE, 'CAUSE I KNOW AUSTIN WATER ALSO DOES THE, UM, SHOWER HEADS AND AERATORS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

AND THEN ALSO, UM, AUSTIN ENERGY ALSO DOES, UM, I, I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT THEIR PRO, IS IT GREEN CHOICE OR SOMETHING? THEY DO THE INSULATION AND WEATHERIZATION AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

SO, UM, I WAS JUST CURIOUS, LIKE US OFFERING IT ACROSS TEXAS GAS SERVICE AS WELL.

IS IT EFFICIENT? I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER THAT.

UM, MR. THANK YOU.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ASKING.

SO, UH, PART OF THAT IS TO EXTEND OUR REACH, UM, AND, AND TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE, UH, A LARGER AREA COVERED, UM, EXCUSE ME, AUSTIN ENERGY AND, UM, AUSTIN WATER

[00:20:01]

HAVE A, A CONCENTRATION, UM, IN THE AUSTIN AREA WHERE WE COVER 18 CITIES.

AND SO WHERE IS O WHERE THERE IS OVERLAP? EXCUSE ME.

UM, WE FELT THAT THE BENEFIT FOR THE LARGER AREA WAS STILL PRESENT.

UM, AND THEN AS FAR AS THE HOME PERFORMANCE WITH ENERGY STAR, WHERE WE DO CO UH, COUPLE REBATES WITH, UM, THE, UM, OFFSET ENERGY PROGRAM, UM, IT MAXIMIZES, UM, THE, THE, UM, WELL, I SHOULD SAY IT REDUCES THE IMPACT TO THE CUSTOMER AND THEREFORE INCENTIVIZING THEM TO, IN, UH, TO ENGAGE IN THE, THE, UM, REBATES IN THE RETROFITS, UM, TO PARTICIPATE MORE.

SO IT, IT REDUCES THE COST PROHIBITIVE, UM, BARRIER THAT SOME MAY EXPERIENCE.

SO I GUESS TO ADD, THANK YOU FOR THAT, UH, TO ADD ON TO THAT.

SURE.

SO IF SAY, AND I'M NOT SURE THE NUMBERS, LIKE IF AUSTIN ENERGY RUNS OUT OF REBATE, UH, FUNDS FOR THEIR PROGRAM FOR THE YEAR, DO THEY GO, OH, WELL, TEXAS GAS HAS THE, SO DO Y'ALL, MEANING DO Y'ALL WORK TOGETHER ON OFFERING REBATES? I CAN'T SPEAK TO, UM, WHAT HAPPENS IN THAT EVENT.

IN, IN THE FOUR YEARS I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN THE PROGRAM, WE HAVEN'T HAD THAT.

UM, BUT WHAT THEY DO IS, UM, WHEN, WHEN THE AUSTIN ENERGY CUSTOMERS APPLY FOR THE HOME PERFORMANCE ENERGY WITH ENERGY STAR PROGRAM THROUGH THE AUSTIN ENERGY SITE, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THEY'RE ASKED IS, ARE YOU A TEXAS GAS CUSTOMER? AND IF SO, TEXAS GAS OFFERS A FURNACE REBATE, THEY OFFER A A SMART THERMOSTAT REBATE, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT WE SHARE WITH AUSTIN ENERGY.

UM, AND SO WE HAVEN'T ENCOUNTERED THAT ISSUE.

AND I DON'T KNOW, UM, RICHARD, IN YOUR TIME IF YOU, IF YOU'VE SEEN THAT.

UM, BUT I, WE HAVEN'T ENCOUNTERED THAT, SO I DON'T, I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IN THAT CASE.

UM, BUT EXCUSE ME, IF THEY ARE ANYTHING LIKE THAT, THEY'LL CONTINUE TO OFFER REBATES UNTIL THE FUNDS ARE EXHAUSTED AT WHICH TIME THEY WOULD, THEY WOULD CLOSE EITHER THEIR PORTION OR WE WOULD CLOSE OUR PORTION OF THE PROGRAM.

THANK YOU FOR THAT EXPLANATION.

SURE THING.

I HAVE A QUESTION ON THE SLIDE BEFORE THIS, UH, I FEEL LIKE'S ONE SLIDE BACK.

YOU MENTIONED, UM, PROVIDE INCOME QUALIFIED HOMES WITH FREE NATURAL GAS APPLIANCES.

WHAT IS THE THRESHOLD FOR THAT INCOME QUALIFIED? DO YOU KNOW, JASMINE? YES, ABSOLUTELY.

SO WE, UM, DO NOT PERFORM THE INCOME VERIFICATION IN HOUSE.

IN FACT, TEXAS GAS CUSTOMER SERVICE DOES NOT CURRENTLY, UH, MAINTAIN INCOME DEMOGRAPHICS FOR OUR CUSTOMERS.

SO WE PARTNER WITH AGENCIES LIKE MEALS ON WHEELS, AUSTIN ENERGY WEATHERIZATION PROGRAM, UM, UH, AND OTHER AGENCIES.

AND THEY PERFORMED THE INCOME VERIFICATION.

AND I WANNA SAY THE LAST TIME I CHECKED IT WAS, UM, 200% OF THE L M I, UM, DON'T QUOTE ME ON THAT.

I CAN CONFIRM AND GET BACK TO YOU.

UM, BUT THEY PERFORMED THE VERIFICATION, UM, AND WHEN WE HAVE A MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING ON RECORD WITH THEM, UH, BASED UPON THE NEEDS, THE QUALIFICATIONS FOR OUR PROGRAM, AT WHICH POINT, ONCE THEY'RE THE CUSTOMER'S QUALIFIED, THEY SEND US A REFERRAL.

UM, AND THEN WE PERFORM A CHECK TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE INDEED THE CUSTOMER, THE PERSON APPLYING IS THE PERSON ON RECORD FOR THE ACCOUNT, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.

AND THEN WE GO AHEAD AND, AND WORK WITH THE CONTRACTORS TO GET THE WORK DONE.

AND AS A FOLLOW-UP QUESTION TO THAT, DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH, UM, OF YOUR, EITHER THE BUDGET OR THE YEAR TO DATE SPENT IS COMING FROM PROVIDING FREE NATURAL GAS APPLIANCES? UM, AND THE REASON I'M ASKING IS 'CAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE THE QUESTION THAT WE MIGHT BE WRESTLING WITH IS WHETHER OR NOT THE REBATE MONEY IS BEST USED FOR THIS PROGRAM OR, UM, YOU KNOW, OTHER, OTHER RESOURCES THAT ACTUALLY HELP LOW INCOME INDIVIDUALS.

SO I'M JUST CURIOUS HOW MUCH THIS PROGRAM CURRENTLY IS BENEFITING.

UM, THE BUDGET IS, UM, ABOUT 300,000, UH, ANNUALLY.

AND WE HAVE A SMALL OVERAGE THRESHOLD THAT WE ALLOW.

UM, AND SO THIS YEAR WE ARE ABOUT, UH, WE WERE CLOSE TO THREE 50, WHICH WAS OUT 10% OF THE, OF THE TOTAL PROGRAM BUDGET.

AND WE FIND, UM, THAT THE DEMAND OF COURSE INCREASES YEAR OVER YEAR.

BUT THIS YEAR IT SEEMS TO BE A BANNER EFFORT.

UM, YOU KNOW, WE ARE NOT, WE ARE NOT UNAWARE OF WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE ECONOMY, AND SO WE'RE FINDING MORE PEOPLE ARE NEEDING THE ASSISTANCE.

UM, AND SO PRETTY MUCH BY THE END, BY THE MIDDLE OF, I'M SORRY, BY THE MIDDLE OF THE YEAR, END OF JULY, WE WERE SEEING THAT THE FUNDS WERE GONNA BE EXHAUSTED BEFORE THE END OF THE YEAR AND WE WERE GONNA HAVE TO CLOSE DOWN, ACCEPT ACCEPTING, UM, APPLICATIONS UNTIL, UH, JANUARY.

QUALIFIED HOMES THAT GET AND RECEIVE, UH, FREE.

SO JUST TO CONFIRM, YOU SAID ABOUT 10% OF THE, OF THE PROGRAM BUDGET IS GOING TO THESE, UM, INCOME

[00:25:01]

UH, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.

ON SLIDE EIGHT, PLEASE, HOW MANY HOME PERFORMANCE RETROFITS OR UPGRADES DO YOU GET WITH $130,000 PLEASE? COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN, WE HAVE TO GET BACK TO YOU ON THE ACTUAL NUMBER OF HOMES IMPACTED.

UM, WE JUST PROVIDED THE REPRESENTATION IN DOLLARS, AND I APOLOGIZE THAT I'M NOT THERE.

I'M ACTUALLY AT AN ENERGY EFFICIENCY CONFERENCE RIGHT NOW.

UM, SO I APOLOGIZE.

UM, AND MICHAEL DID A GREAT JOB, BUT I DID NOT HAVE HIM PREPARE THOSE NUMBERS, SO I CAN GET THAT FOR YOU AND PROVIDE THEM FOR YOU POST CLOSE MEETING.

AND THE OTHER THING THAT I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN LEARNING IS ARE YOU PROVIDING THE ENTIRE SUITE OF THESE SERVICES WITH EVERY ENERGY EFFICIENCY INSTALL? OR IS THIS MOSTLY JUST HERE'S A WHOLE LOT OF SMART THERMO PATHS AND WE'RE NOT DOING MUCH OUTTA INSULATION? UM, IT, IT'S, IT'S BASED UPON WHAT THE CUSTOMER HAS EXPRESSED INTEREST IN OR WHAT THEY HAVE SIGNED UP FOR THROUGH THE PROGRAM.

UM, AND THEY WORK, YOU KNOW, BASED UPON THEIR GOALS FOR THEIR HOME AS WELL AS THE CONTRACT THAT THEY'RE WORKING WITH.

UM, SO IT'S NOT AN AUTOMATIC, UM, AND I THINK THE, THE, THE CATALYST OR BEHIND THAT IS THAT WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HOMES THAT ACTUALLY NEED THEM.

UM, AND SO IF A HOME IS ALREADY EQUIPPED WITH THE HOME, WITH THE SMART AND THE STAT, IT'S A LOW ENTRY POINT, A LOW COST ENTRY POINT.

AND SO A LOT OF HOMES, WHEN THEY'RE LOOKING TO MAKE SOME CHANGES, OF COURSE, THEY START WITH THE LOWER COST CHANGES AND THEN THEY GO UP FROM THERE.

AND SO WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT JUST SENDING THEM OUT.

UM, SAME THING WE DO WITH THE WATER KITS.

WE DON'T JUST SEND THEM OUT, WE WAIT FOR THE REQUESTS.

'CAUSE WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE THAT ARE REQUESTING 'EM ARE GONNA USE THEM AND IMPLEMENT THEM.

AND SO, UM, IT'S BASIC.

IT'S ON A PER PREMISE BASIS WHAT'S NEEDED, AND THEN THAT'S WHAT WE, THAT'S WHAT WE WOULD PROVIDE THROUGH THAT PROGRAM.

GREAT QUESTION.

OH, SO IS THE ENTRY POINT A HOME ENERGY AUDIT THEN, AND SOME EDUCATION ABOUT HERE IS THE CONDITION OF YOUR HOME AND HERE ARE THE MEASURES THAT WE CAN TAKE TO MAKE YOUR HEATING MORE ENER AND YOUR, YOUR, YOUR ENVELOPE AND YOUR SYSTEM MORE ENERGY EFFICIENT? NO, SO WE DON'T PROVIDE THROUGH THE, THROUGH THE, UM, TEXAS GAS SERVICE PROGRAM.

WE DO NOT OFFER A HOME AND ENERGY AUDIT.

BUT WHEN THE CUSTOMER, UM, YOU KNOW, LOOKS INTO, LET'S SAY THEY CALL, UM, A, A PLUMBING, UM, AND THEY WANNA LOOK AT, UM, HAVING SOME WORK DONE IN THEIR HOME, UM, AND THEY, THE, THE CONTRACTOR THAT THEY WORK WITH SAYS, YOU KNOW, TEXAS GAS AND OPT ENERGY HAVE PROGRAMS THAT WILL HELP OFFSET THE COST ASSOCIATED WITH THIS.

A LOT OF TIMES IF THE CUSTOMER HAS NOT FOUND OUT, UM, FROM THE PROGRAM, EITHER THROUGH MY, THROUGH OUR SITE OR THROUGH AUSTIN ENERGY SITE OR BILL INSERTS OR ADVERTISEMENTS, THEY'LL HEAR IT FROM THEIR CONTRACTOR.

AND SO THEY DO THE RESEARCH AND AUSTIN ENERGY OFFERS THE AVAIL AVAILABILITY FOR THE CUSTOMER TO PAY FOR THE, THE, UM, RETROFIT WORK OR, UM, FOR FINANCING.

AND THEN ONCE THEY HAVE CONTACTED THE CONTRACTOR AND THE CONTRACTOR HAS WORKED WITH THEM TO SAY, YOU KNOW, WE CAN DO THIS, WE CAN DO THAT, YOUR HOME NEEDS THIS, ET CETERA, ET CETERA, THEN UM, THEY'LL REACH OUT TO US AND SAY, THIS CUSTOMER'S HAVING A B, C WORK DONE.

AND THE A B C WOULD BE COMPONENTS OF THE HOME ENERGY STAR PROGRAM THAT WE OFFER.

AND THEN WE PARTNER WITH AUSTIN ENERGY TO MAKE SURE THAT WE TRACK WITH THE CONTRACTOR THAT THE WORK HAS DONE, THAT WE DO ACCOUNT VERIFICATION.

AND THEN DEPENDING UPON HOW THE CUSTOMER, UM, PAYS FOR THE WORK, IF THE FUNDS ARE EITHER SENT TO THE CONTRACTOR OR TO, UM, THE, UH, THE CUSTOMER DIRECTLY.

BUT THROUGH THE TEXAS ENERGY, UH, TEXAS PROGRAM, WE DO NOT OFFER A HOME ENERGY AUDIT AT THIS TIME.

SO HOW DO YOU OR AUSTIN ENERGY KNOW WHETHER THE CUSTOMER IS GETTING ALL OF THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY THAT HER HOME NEEDS? IF THERE IS NO, IS THERE ANY SYSTEMATIC EDUCATION OR QUALITY CONTROL OR WAY TO DETERMINE WHETHER THE CONTRACTOR IS JUST TRYING TO GET IN AND GET OUT WITH, WITH THE QUICKBOOK? WELL, THEY WOULD LOOK AT THE, THE RATINGS OF THE HOME.

UM, BUT WHAT I'M, I GUESS I, I WANTED TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION.

MAYBE IF I DIDN'T ANSWER IT COMPLETELY.

WE DO NOT PERFORM AN AUDIT, BUT WHEN THE CONTRACTOR GOES IN, THEY WOULD LOOK AT THE RATING OF THE INSULATION AND DETERMINE THAT THE RATE, THE INSULATION THAT TO BE INSTALLED IS, UH, HIGHER THAN WHAT'S CURRENTLY THERE.

IF THEY LOOK AT THE FURNACE, BECAUSE THE FURNACE IS ONE OF THE, UM, MEASURES AVAILABLE THROUGH THE HOME PERFORMANCE WITHIN INITIAL PROGRAM, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE MORE EFFICIENT THAN THE FURNACE THAT'S CURRENTLY IN PLACE.

[00:30:02]

YES, MA'AM.

UH, ARE THERE ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS FROM COMMISSIONERS? I, I HAVE A COMMENT, MAYBE A QUESTION MAYBE TO HELP, UH, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN, UM, AND MAYBE A CONFIRMATION FROM JASMINE.

UM, ISN'T THERE A REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE CITY THAT USUALLY COMES OUT TO MAKE SURE, UM, THAT ANY CONTRACTOR THAT'S COME OUT TO DO THEIR WORK, UM, HAS DONE THE WORK EFFICIENTLY AND EFFECTIVELY UP TO, UM, CODE AND UP TO WHAT THE REQUIREMENTS ARE? COMMISSIONER CHAIR, I CANNOT CONFIRM THAT BECAUSE WE DON'T, ONCE THE WORK HAS BEEN COMPLETED, WE LOOK FOR, UM, THE COMPLETION OF WORK AND WE DON'T FOLLOW BACK UP WITH THE HOMEOWNER OR THE PROPERTY OWNER, UM, OR AUSTIN ENERGY.

UM, PERHAPS, UM, UM, MR. GENESEE CAN CONFIRM THAT, BUT WE, WE ARE NOT INVOLVED IN THAT PORTION.

UM, ONCE WE CONFIRM THAT THE, THE MORE EFFICIENT WORK HAS BEEN DONE OR THE MORE EFFICIENT MEASUREMENT IS IN PLACE, THEN WE CLOSE OUT OUR INTERACTION WITH THE CUSTOMER OR THE CONTRACTOR.

UM, UM, RICHARD, COULD YOU PERHAPS, UH, GIVE A QUICK ANSWER? SURE.

UH, RICHARD GENESEE, AUSTIN ENERGY, AGAIN, THERE IS A QA QC FUNCTION, QUALITY ASSURANCE, QUALITY CONTROL FUNCTION ON THE AUSTIN ENERGY SIDE OF THE EQUATION.

IN TERMS OF PARTNERING WITH TEXAS GAS, I CAN'T QUOTE, UH, WHETHER IT'S A HUNDRED PERCENT OR WHAT PERCENTAGE IT IS, BUT THERE IS SOME PERCENTAGE OF, UH, UH, PROJECTS THAT WE DO QA, QC CONTROL ON.

AND IT'S STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT SO THAT IT REPRESENTS, IT'S NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT, I DON'T BELIEVE, BUT IT'S VERY, IT'S CLOSE, UM, OR STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT.

AND IN THOSE JOBS, WE DO GO BACK AND WE DO, IT'S BASICALLY A CHECK THE CHECKER.

WE'RE MAKING SURE THAT THE WORK THAT WAS, UH, SUPPOSED TO BE DONE WAS DONE IN FACT, PROPERLY BY THE CONTRACTOR IN, IN QUESTION, AND THAT THE CUSTOMER GOT THE VALUE THAT THEY WERE INTENDED TO GET.

SO AUSTIN ENERGY DOES THIS AS WELL AS TEXAS GAS OR JUST AUSTIN ENERGY PARTNER? DOES QA QC IT? IT'S A PARTNERSHIP AND AUSTIN ENERGY HANDLES THAT PORTION OF IT.

THANK YOU COMMISSIONERS.

OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? OKAY.

UM, THANK, UH, THANK YOU.

GOING TO ASK IF, UH, GO TO ITEM SEVEN.

UM, WE'RE NOW

[7. Update from the Texas Gas Service Working Group. ]

UH, AND IF COMMISSIONERS, UH, KARA GOTTI OR GARY, UH, HAVE, UH, ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT MAKING PROGRESS WITH TEXAS GAS SERVICE, UM, THIS WOULD BE THE TIME.

SO I WOULD SAY THAT THE THREE OF US, INCLUDING YOURSELF, HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO CONVENE AND SET UP TIME TO DO THAT.

I THINK YOU'VE PROVIDED A, SO A RESOLUTION WITHOUT OUR INPUT.

UM, AND I THINK THAT THAT WAS KIND OF THE, THE MEETING THAT WE SHOULD HAVE HAD PRIOR TO PRESENT PRESENTING THAT RESOLUTION.

SO WITH THAT SAID, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION FULLY, NO, THERE'S NO UPDATE BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT MET PRIOR TO THIS MEETING TO DISCUSS THE BEST OUTCOME WITH TEXAS GAS AND THE COMMITTEE.

BY CHAIR STONE, BUT I SHARED IT WITH THIS COMMISSION AND TEXAS GAS SERVICE WEEKS IN ADVANCE.

COMMISSIONER KARA GOTTI, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD? NO, I DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD AT THIS TIME.

UH, COMMISSIONER GARY, I THINK YOU, UH, MISUNDERSTAND SOMETHING.

UH, I, UH, FELT IT WAS BEST THAT I WITHDRAW FROM THE GROUP.

AND WHEN I WAS CONTACTED BY COMMISSIONER CAROTTI, UH, I TOLD HER, SO THIS WASN'T A MATTER OF, UH, MY, UH, NOT FINDING A TIME.

UH, I LIVED FOR THIS STUFF.

I SIMPLY DIDN'T THINK IT WAS PRODUCTIVE ANYMORE.

UH, EXCUSE ME.

SO THERE'S NO MIS PLEASE, PLEASE LET ME FINISH.

OKAY, GO AHEAD.

UH, AND, UM, I DID INDEED DRAW UP A RESOLUTION THAT WAS CO-SPONSORED

[00:35:01]

SO IT'S NOT LIKE, UM, ANYONE HAS BEEN, UH, BLINDSIDED.

PLEASE.

SO THERE'S NO MISUNDERSTANDING ON MY PART.

I JUST DIDN'T HAVE THAT INFORMATION THAT YOU WITHDREW FROM THE COMMITTEE.

HAD I KNOWN THAT, I PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE STATED THE STATEMENT THAT I MADE.

WITH THAT SAID, YOU CAN MOVE FORWARD WITH YOUR RESOLUTION IF YOU CHOSE.

SO CHOOSE.

UH, I, UH, VALUE YOUR TIME, UH, AND THAT'S WHY I COME TO YOU WITH SHORT PRESENTATIONS.

UM, COMMISSIONERS,

[5. Approve a recommendation regarding a resolution to lower Texas Gas Service rebates in the 2024 budget year. (Sponsors: Robbins, Stone) ]

UH, I HAVE, UH, TWO SHORT PRESENTATIONS FOR EACH OF THESE RESOLUTIONS.

AND, UM, LET'S, UH, I'LL TRY TO GET THROUGH THEM AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

UH, MS. GOODWIN, COULD YOU PUT UP THE FIRST ONE PLEASE? UH, OKAY.

UM, SLIDE, NEXT SLIDE LIGHT.

UM, I'VE CONDUCTED A, AN EXTENSIVE STUDY THAT TOOK ME ABOUT A MONTH TO DO.

UH, AND I LOOKED AT ALL THE LARGE GAS UTILITIES IN THE COUNTRY AND COMPARED THEM TO TEXAS GAS SERVICE.

NOW, THIS IS NOT ABOUT COST EFFECTIVENESS.

IF IT WERE UP TO ME, THESE FOUR PROGRAMS, TANKLESS WATER HEATER, REBATES, FURNACE REBATES, CLOSED DRYER REBATES, AND CLOSED DRYER CONNECTION, STUBB REBATES WOULD BE OVER.

BUT THAT'S NOT WHERE I WENT WITH THIS.

I SIMPLY BENCHMARKED TEXAS GAS SERVICE COMPARED TO THE NATIONAL AVERAGE.

AND I FOUND THAT THE REBATE LEVELS WERE TWO AND THREE TIMES WHAT THEY, UH, WHAT THEY ARE NATIONALLY, UH, WHEN THEY'RE ADJUSTED FOR TEMPERATURE.

UH, AND I FOUND THAT, UH, IN THE CASE OF CLOSED DRYER CONNECTIONS, THERE IS NO OTHER UTILITY.

THERE ARE NO OTHER UTILITIES IN THE COUNTRY BESIDES TWO THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH THE PARENT COMPANY OF TEXAS GAS SERVICE THAT HAVE THIS.

SO I AM RECOMMENDING THAT IN THE NEXT, UH, BUDGET YEAR, UH, UH, WE ASK THE CITY COUNCIL TO SET THE REBATE LEVELS TO WHAT THEY ARE NATIONALLY.

UM, AND THIS WAS DETAILED IN THE RESOLUTION, UH, THAT ALL OF YOU WERE SENT.

UH, AND THERE WAS ALSO NEXT SLIDE, A SAVINGS ESTIMATE.

AND THESE NUMBERS MAY OR MAY NOT BE VISUAL TO YOU, BUT THERE'S BASICALLY A SAVINGS OF ABOUT A MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR TO CENTRAL TEXAS CUSTOMERS.

ALMOST 60% SAVINGS JUST BY SETTING THE REBATE LEVELS TO WHAT THEY ARE NATIONALLY.

I THINK THIS IS A, UH, REALLY SIMPLE, UH, COMMON SENSE THING TO DO.

UH, NEXT SLIDE.

UH, AND I JUST WANT TO CALL THIS ONE REBATE OUT BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO BE THE MOST, UM, UH, OFF THE CHARTS, ONE WHERE YOU CAN GET AS MUCH AS $325, UH, FOR A GAS CLOSED DRYER TO CHANGE OUT YOUR EXISTING GAS CLOSED DRYER.

UH, AND IT'S GOING, HMM, THAT SHOULD HAVE SAID A DOLLAR 56 A YEAR.

AND I THOUGHT I HAD CHANGED IT, FORGIVE ME.

BUT, UH, IT SAVES A DOLLAR 56 CENTS A YEAR, AND THAT, UH, AMOUNTS TO ABOUT A 208 YEAR PAYBACK.

UH, YOU CAN LOOK AT THESE AND TRY TO BUY THEM ONLINE AS AN AFTERMARKET PART, AND THEY COST LIKE, AS LITTLE AS $3 AND 50 CENTS.

SO I JUST CANNOT SEE CONTINUING TO DO THIS ANYMORE.

UM, AS A CONSERVATIONIST, I SHIRK IF SOMEONE, A SKEPTIC OF CONSERVATION WERE TO CONFRONT ME

[00:40:01]

AND SAY, HOW CAN YOU JUSTIFY THIS? I CAN'T.

UH, AND FINALLY, UM, THE NEXT SLIDE, UH, I WANT, I WANT TO, UH, PLAY A TWO MINUTE CLIP FROM A MEETING THAT TOOK PLACE AT CITY COUNCIL IF, IF THIS QUEUE WORKS.

UH, BUT THIS IS BASICALLY, UM, WHEN THERE WAS A CONSERVATION ADJUSTMENT RATE HEARING IN NOVEMBER 29TH, 2018, AND YOU WILL HEAR RONELLA HAWKINS, THE CITY'S HEAD OF THE REGULATORY AFFAIRS, TELL A COUNCIL MEMBER THAT WE CAN REVISIT COST EFFECTIVENESS AT ANY TIME.

WE DO NOT HAVE TO WAIT FOR A THREE YEAR CYCLE.

AND YOU WILL HEAR, UH, TEXAS GAS SERVICES, LARRY GRAHAM SAYING, WE WILL NOT HIDE BEHIND A THREE YEAR BUDGET.

UH, SIR, COULD YOU TRY AND SEE IF WE CAN CONNECT THIS, YOU REACH OUT TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE AWARE OF THOSE PROGRAMS. COUNCIL MEMBER KITCHEN, JUST A QUESTION, A QUESTION I, I THINK THAT COUNCIL MEMBER FLANAGAN ASKED EARLIER, AND I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND.

SO IN TERMS OF REVIEWING THE COST EFFECTIVENESS OF THE PROGRAMS, WE CAN DO THAT AT ANY TIME, RIGHT? WE'RE NOT TIED TO, UM, UH, THERE, UM, LET ME ASK OUR STAFF THAT.

SO, AND, AND THEN, SO IF WE WANTED TO HAVE A FURTHER DETAILED CONVERSATION ABOUT THE RESULTS OF THE PREVIOUS ANALYSIS AND WHETHER OR NOT WE FELT LIKE ADDITIONAL ANALYSIS NEEDED TO BE DONE, WE COULD DO THAT AT ANY TIME.

YES, WE CAN DO IT ANY TIME.

CURRENTLY IT'S AN ANNUAL ANNUAL REVIEW.

WELL, I DO HAVE SOME CONCERN.

I, I, I RECOGNIZE THE CONCERN THAT WAS BROUGHT UP ABOUT, UM, UH, ABOUT THE INDEPENDENCE OF THE PERSON WHO DID THE ANALYSIS WITHOUT ATTRIBUTING ANY ILL, UH, YOU KNOW, INTENT OR ANYTHING.

UH, IF WE WANTED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH, WITH A DIFFERENT ANALYSIS IN THE FUTURE, WE COULD DO SO, RIGHT? YES, WE CAN.

UM, AND THEN THE, UH, IN TERMS OF THE VOLUMETRIC RATE, UM, OR THE SHIFT TO VOLUMETRIC, WHEN WOULD BE OUR NEXT OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THAT IF WE DECIDED IN THE, IN THE FUTURE THAT IT WASN'T WORKING THE WAY THAT WE WANTED IT TO? SO THIS IS, UH, THREE YEARS.

UM, HOWEVER, UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THE GAS COMPANY HAS AN ANTICIPATED FILING DATE FOR A FULL RAID CASE BEFORE THEN, WHICH, DO YOU HAVE ANY SENSE OF FULL RAID CASE FILING REAL QUICKLY? WE ARE GONNA CONTINUE TO HAVE SOMEBODY, A THIRD PARTY DO THE EVALUATION, WHICH WE SHARE WITH RONELLA, HAPPY TO SHARE WITH YOU, HAPPY MM-HMM.

, AND WE WILL SHARE WITH THE, UM, THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION.

IF YOU GUYS, IF WE SEE AN ISSUE, WE, YOU KNOW, REGARDLESS OF THE THREE YEAR WINDOW, WE WILL BE WORK WITH YOU AND ADDRESS IT.

I MEAN, WE'RE, WE'RE NOT GONNA HIDE BEHIND SOME OKAY.

YOU KNOW, THREE YEAR BUDGET THAT WE'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT GONNA COME BACK FOR THREE YEARS.

OH, OKAY.

AND RHONDA, SO JUST, UH, THESE PEOPLE ARE QUOTED IN CONTEXT.

THIS ISN'T SECONDHAND.

YOU SAW IT ON THE REPLAY.

UH, SO WITH THAT, UM, I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE APPROVAL OF THE FIRST RESOLUTION, WHICH ASKS CITY COUNCIL TO SIMPLY, UH, LOWER THE REBATES TO THE NATIONAL AVERAGE.

AND THIS WOULD, UH, BE A GOOD STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

SO, SO CAN WE HAVE ASK QUESTIONS? YEAH.

CAN WE PLEASE? OKAY.

SO CAN YOU GO BACK TO THE SLIDE, UH, BEFORE THIS ONE? SO, AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, SO YOU'RE STATING THAT THE AVERAGE HOMEOWNER OR WHOMEVER COULD GO ONLINE, PREFERABLY TO AMAZON OR WHEREVER, GET THIS PART, IS THAT CORRECT? UH, AMAZON IS ACTUALLY $7 AND 55 CENTS.

THIS IS, UH, HALF, HALF THAT HALF.

BUT YEAH, BUT THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE STATING.

SO WHAT IS THE RISK BEHIND INSTALLING NOW? IS AUSTIN ENERGY OR TEXAS GAS, ARE THEY GONNA INSTALL THAT? UH, NO.

THIS IS LIKE AN, UH, IF YOUR EXISTING MOISTURE SENSOR GOES OUT MM-HMM.

AND YOU WANT A REPLACEMENT, YOU CAN GO ONLINE AND BUY IT.

AND THE REASON I PUT THIS UP IS SIMPLY TO SHOW YOU THAT THIS ISN'T SOMETHING THAT REQUIRES $325.

THIS IS A VERY CHEAP PART, SO I, I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT OKAY.

SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT INSTALLATION.

SO IS AUSTIN ENERGY OR TEXAS GAS, IF I GO AND BUY THIS, I CALL AUSTIN ENERGY, TEXAS GAS, THEY'RE GONNA PUT

[00:45:01]

THIS IN.

YOU'D, UH, YOU'D EITHER HAVE TO DO IT OR YOU'D HAVE TO GET A REPAIR PERSON TO DO IT.

THAT'S, SO THAT'S MORE MONEY OUTTA MY POCKET.

SO THEN WHEN YOU HAVE A SINGLE MOM WHO DOESN'T KNOW, RIGHT, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT LOW INCOME, YOU HAVE A SINGLE MOM WHO, WHO DOESN'T HAVE THE CAPABILITY OF PUTTING THAT ON, BUT THEN WHAT IS THE RISK ON IT? YOU KNOW, IF IT'S INSTALLED WRONG, COULD IT CATCH ON FIRE? SO CAN YOU PROVIDE THAT INFORMATION FOR ME? I AM NOT A, AN APPLIANCE REPAIR PERSON.

THAT WAS NOT THE POINT IN SHOWING THIS TO YOU.

AND I UNDERSTAND, BUT I, I'M THINKING, AGAIN, MY BACKGROUND IS RISK.

SO I'M THINKING ABOUT IF I WAS TO INSTALL THAT IN MY ENERGY T DRYER, I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT, IT'S PROBABLY LIKE A 2022.

IT'S VERY FANCY.

I PUT THAT IN AND I CONTINUE IT WITH MY DAILY, YOU KNOW, WASHING CLOTHES, DRYING, WHATEVER, AND IT CATCH ON FIRE.

WHO'S GONNA BE AT FAULT FOR THAT? I DO NOT KNOW THAT THESE THINGS CATCH ON FIRE.

I'M JUST, JUST ASKING.

I HAVEN'T RESEARCHED IT.

ABOUT, UH, THEIR LOW INCOME PROGRAM, I WILL REMIND YOU THAT THIS RESOLUTION SPECIFICALLY ASKS THAT SOME OF THE SAVINGS BE TAKEN FROM, UH, TAKEN FROM THIS, UH, UH, FROM PUTTING THESE REBATES DOWN TO THE NATIONAL AVERAGE AND PUT INTO A LOW INCOME CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE PROGRAM.

UH, I SINCERELY DOUBT THAT THEY'RE A FIRE RISK.

THEY GO OUT PERIODICALLY, WHICH IS WHY YOU CAN BUY AFTERMARKET PARTS.

UM, REGARDING THESE THREE ITEMS, UH, I I SHOULD QUICKLY INTERJECT THAT, UH, POOR PEOPLE GENERALLY DO NOT BUY TANKLESS WATER HEATERS.

UH, POOR PEOPLE DO NOT GENERALLY BUY HIGH EFFICIENT FURNACES THAT WILL PAY FOR THEMSELVES IN MINNESOTA, BUT DO NOT PAY FOR THEMSELVES IN TEXAS.

SO DO YOU KNOW THAT BY YOUR OWN OPINION OR RESEARCH AND HOW MANY POOR PEOPLE HAVE YOU POLLED TO FIND OUT THAT THIS INFORMATION THAT YOU JUST PROVIDED IS ACCURATE? I DID A SURVEY WHICH I SENT TO YOU AND COMMISSIONER KARA GOTTI, WHICH, UH, ATTEMPTED TO ADDRESS THOSE CONCERNS.

I DO NOT KNOW THAT ANYBODY ELSE IN AUSTIN HAS EVER DONE SUCH A THING.

TEXAS GAS SERVICE HASN'T.

AND WHAT I WAS ABLE TO DO, UH, IS I, TEXAS GAS SERVICE WAS NOT FORTHCOMING ABOUT THE ZIP CODES WHERE THEY GAVE REBATES FOR TANKLESS WATER HEATERS AND FURNACES, UH, I BELIEVE YOU KNOW THIS.

SO I WENT INTO THE CITY'S PERMIT DATABASE BUILDING PERMIT DATABASE, AND TRIED TO FIND THIS OUT.

AND WHAT I WAS ABLE TO ASCERTAIN WAS THAT IN THE CASE OF TANKLESS WATER HEATERS, 90 PLUS PERCENT OF THEM WERE CLEARLY, CLEARLY IN WELL-TO-DO HOMES.

THERE WERE VERY FEW RENTERS, UH, SOME OF THESE PEOPLE, UH, HAD PROPERTY AND, UH, VALUED AT, UH, SEVERAL MILLION DOLLARS.

UM, THESE ARE JUST NOT SOMETHING, UH, LOW INCOME PEOPLE BUY.

UH, IN THE CASE OF FURNACES, I VERY MUCH WANTED TO DO THIS ANALYSIS, BUT I COULD NOT FIND IT IN THE PERMIT DATABASE.

AND TEXAS GAS SERVICE COULD NOT OR WOULD NOT PROVIDE IT.

SO THAT I, I HAVE MADE AN EFFORT THAT NO ONE ELSE IN THIS CITY HAS DONE.

AND I STAND BY WHAT I HAVE TRIED TO DO.

THANK YOU FOR THAT.

BUT WOULDN'T YOU AGREE THAT TEXAS GAS ADDRESSED THOSE ISSUES? NO, I DO NOT.

SO, SO IF THEY'RE LOW INCOME PROGRAMS FOR FAMILIES THAT, UH, AREN'T ABLE TO PURCHASE AND INSTALL, I BELIEVE SHE JUST STATED THAT, OR THE REPRESENTATIVE STATED THAT THEY DO PARTNER WITH AUSTIN ENERGY, RIGHT? THEY MAKE SURE THAT A CONTRACTOR COMES OUT.

SO I, SO WOULDN'T YOU THINK THAT WOULD BE BETTER THAN HAVING SOMEONE JUST PURCHASE OFFLINE INSTALL AND YOU DON'T KNOW THE OUTCOME? HOW WOULD YOU, HOW WOULD YOU RATE THAT? YOU'RE ASKING ABOUT THREE QUESTIONS HERE, BUT, UH, TO THE POINT OF TANKLESS, FOR EXAMPLE, I AM NOT TONIGHT QUESTIONING THE COST EFFECTIVENESS.

I AM SAYING WE NEED TO BE, THEY NEED TO BE, AUSTIN NEEDS TO BE IN LINE WITH THE NATIONAL AVERAGE.

WE'LL DEAL WITH COST EFFECTIVENESS IN ANOTHER CONVERSATION, UH, UH, TO THE POINT

[00:50:01]

SO I AM NOT INSENSITIVE TO THAT ISSUE AT ALL.

UH, REGARDING, NOW, I, I'M 90% SURE OF THIS, BUT WHEN TEXAS GAS SERVICE GIVES A WATER HEATER TO A LOW INCOME HOUSEHOLD, I BELIEVE THAT'S A CONVENTIONAL WATER HEATER.

AND I BELIEVE THAT'S A CONVENTIONAL FURNACE.

UH, IF I AM NOT MISTAKEN, THE CONCERN IS SOME OF THESE FURNACES ARE SO OLD, THEY COULD BE LEAKING CARBON MONOXIDE, SO THEY'LL REPLACE THE EXISTING CONVENTIONAL FURNACE WITH A NEW ONE.

I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THEY INSTALL HIGH EFFICIENCY FURNACES.

UH, AND THE SAME WITH WATER HEATERS.

IS THAT TRUE? YEAH, THAT, THAT'S TRUE.

AND I THINK THAT THE REASON IS THE MONEY SPREADS MORE.

SORRY, THE SCREEN WENT AWAY BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW IF YOU GUYS WERE LOOKING AT ME OR IF MY GOAL STILL THE DAY IS, UM, IN SOME CASES WE DO INSTALL HIGH EFFICIENCY.

IT DEPENDS UPON WHAT THE CAPACITY IS OF THE PROPERTY.

EVERY PROPERTY IS IS DIFFERENT.

UM, TO COMMISSIONER ROBIN'S POINT, SOMETIMES THE, THE CONDITION IS SO BAD, UM, THAT WE CAN GO INTO SOMETHING, UM, THAT IS NOT AS HIGH EFFICIENCY, UM, AND INSTALL THAT.

UM, BUT THERE ARE, IT'S NOT A BLANKET, UM, SOLUTION EACH AS A CASE BY CASE BASIS.

I WOULD ADD TO THAT TOO, THAT, UM, IN THE, THE INSTANCES WHERE, UM, A HIGH-END EFFICIENCY, UM, EQUIPMENT IS NOT INSTALLED, UM, WE WANNA BEAR IN MIND TOO THAT WE COVER ALL THE COSTS.

UM, MICHAEL SPOKE TO THAT OF THE INSTALLATION.

SO IF THEY HAD A, A DERELICT TANK, UH, NATURAL GAS WATER HEATER, UM, THAT WAS JUST SITTING IN THE HALLWAY, WHICH IS NOT UN UNCOMMON OR SITTING OUTSIDE, WHICH IS NOT UNCOMMON, WE WILL NOT ONLY COVER THE COST OF THE APPLIANCE, BUT ALSO THE COST OF THE LABOR AND MATERIALS TO BUILD, SAY, A WATER CLOSET.

UM, IF WE'RE INSTALLING A RANGE, WE INSTALL THE RANGE AND THE VENT, UM, AND ALL THE WORK VENTED PROPERLY, UM, OUT OF THE HOME, EXTERNAL TO THE HOME.

YEAH, THIS IS LARRY.

HEY JASMINE, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT I I THINK IN GENERAL WE REPLACE 'EM WITH, UM, APPLIANCE.

I MEAN, AS YOU SAID, I'VE, IT'S BEEN A WHILE, BUT I'VE SEEN SOME PRETTY UNIQUE THINGS THAT WE'VE HAD TO REPLACE SOME PRETTY OLD APPLIANCES.

AND GENERALLY THEY'RE JUST APPLIANCES THAT ARE, ARE NEW AND MEET THE CODE.

AND, AND THE REAL REASON I THINK WE DO THAT MOST OF THE TIME IS TO LEAVE MORE MONEY TO SERVE MORE PEOPLE, RIGHT? CORRECT.

THAT'S WHY I WAS, YEAH, THANK YOU FOR WRAPPING THAT UP.

BUT YES, I WAS SAYING THE COST ASSOCIATED WITH INSTALLING ISN'T JUST THE, THE COST OF THE, THE APPLIANCE OR TECHNOLOGY.

SO IN THE, IN THAT CASE, WHEN WE ARE USING SOMETHING THAT'S CODE COMPLIANCE, UM, THERE ARE OTHER COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH IT.

UH, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WOULD LIKE TO THROW AT ME? COMMISSIONER GARY, WE'RE JUST HAVING A DISCUSSION.

I'LL GO, I'LL DIGRESS AND WAIT FOR THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS BEFORE I ADD ANYTHING ELSE.

SO THAT'S THE FIRST QUESTION.

SO I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS.

SO THANK YOU FOR DOING THE SURVEY.

UM, I DO WANNA STICK ON COMMISSIONER GARY'S POINT FOR A MINUTE.

UM, SO I THINK WHAT THE RESOLUTION IS SAYING, OR HOW I READ THE RESOLUTION WAS THAT THE CURRENT REBATES ARE JUST TOO HIGH FOR THINGS LIKE CLOTHES DRYER.

I DO TAKE THE POINT THAT IT'S PROBABLY NOT AS EGREGIOUS AS THIS SLIDE WOULD INDICATE BECAUSE IT'S NOT AS SIMPLE AS JUST GETTING THE PART, RIGHT.

THERE'S, THERE IS MORE INVOLVED THAN HAVING THE PART SOMEONE HAS TO INSTALL IT.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S LIKE KINDA LIKE WRAPAROUND COSTS.

SO I JUST WANNA CONFIRM THAT WHAT THE RESOLUTION IS STATING IS SAYING TEXAS GAS SERVICE SHOULD LOOK AT THIS AGAIN, SHOULD DO A COST EFFECTIVENESS, SHOULD SEE WHETHER OR NOT THE REBATES ARE ACTUALLY IN LINE WITH THE NATIONAL AVERAGE SLASH ALSO MAYBE IN LINE WITH WHAT A CUSTOMER IS ACTUALLY PAYING OUT OF POCKET WHEN THEY'RE IN, WHEN THEY'RE DOING SOME OF THESE UPGRADES.

[00:55:02]

IS THAT AN ACCURATE STATEMENT? UH, WELL IT'S WELL INTENDED.

UH, THERE'S THE REAL COST, UH, AND THEN THERE'S THE REBATE COST, RIGHT? AND THOSE TWO THINGS NEED TO BE COMPARED, RIGHT? UH, WELL THAT'S, LET'S SAY, OKAY, AS AN EXAMPLE, UH, A TANKLESS WATER HEATER IS PROBABLY, AND THIS COMES FROM UH, THREE DAYS OF RESEARCH, A TANKLESS WATER HEATER IN AUSTIN IS PROBABLY GONNA COST ABOUT $3,500 MORE THAN A, UM, THAN A CONVENTIONAL ONE.

UH, AND IT'S ONLY GOING TO SAVE ROUGHLY, UH, WITH GAS GOING UP MAYBE $500 OVER THE LIFE.

AND THEN YOU HAVE TO FACTOR IN, UH, THE MAINTENANCE.

'CAUSE YOU HAVE TO CLEAN 'EM EVERY THREE YEARS.

YOU'RE REALLY NOT GONNA GET THE MONEY THAT YOU'VE INVESTED BACK.

SO THIS SORT OF LOOKS AT, UH, IF I COULD GO BACK TO THE, UH, FIRST CHART, MS. GOODWIN.

SO, SO THE FIRST CHART, THE FIR YEAH, THE, THE, YEAH.

UH, THIS LOOKS AT THE ACTUAL REBATE AMOUNT AND IT DOESN'T EVEN GET INTO WHETHER THIS IS A BENEFIT COST OF 2.0 OR 0.5.

IT JUST SAYS THIS IS WHAT THE NATIONAL AVERAGE IS AND THIS IS WHAT TEXAS GAS SERVICE IS.

AND, UM, ALL THESE OTHER UTILITIES MANAGED TO DO OKAY.

SEEM TO MANAGE TO DO OKAY WITH THEIR REBATE PROGRAMS. UH, IN THE CASE OF THE LAST ONE, NO OTHER UTILITY DOES IT EXCEPT ONE GAS.

SO LET'S JUST AS A, A QUICK FIX BEGINNER START TO NORMALIZE THIS BY LOOKING AT THE NATIONAL AVERAGE O OKAY.

SO THERE'S ESSENTIALLY KIND OF TWO CATEGORIES HERE.

THERE'S CATEGORIES WHERE IT'S AN EXPENSIVE OUT-OF-POCKET THING, AND SO THE REBATE IS HELPING YOU DEFRAY SOME OF THE COSTS LIKE THE TANKLESS WATER HEATER THAT WOULD UPFRONT BE MORE EXPENSIVE.

AND THEN THERE'S THE OTHER GROUP OF THESE THINGS WHERE, WHICH IS WHY YOU HAD PUT THE SLIDE ON ABOUT THE EQUIPMENT, RIGHT? THAT IT'S ACTUALLY, IT'S NOT THAT IT DOESN'T COST THAT MUCH TO MAKE THAT UPGRADE.

SO IN THAT, IN THAT SECOND BUCKET, YOU ARE, IT IS IMPORTANT TO LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T WANNA GIVE SOMEONE AN OVER REBATE, RIGHT? WHERE THEY'RE GETTING MORE MONEY THAN, THAN THEY NORMALLY THAN IT WOULD COST THEM TO MAKE THE UPGRADE.

SO I STILL SEE KIND OF LIKE TWO CATEGORIES.

UM, AND THAT'S REALLY HELPFUL, THANK YOU FOR SHEDDING LIGHT ON THAT.

BUT I GUESS THE FOLLOW UP QUESTION TO THAT IS, UM, IN LOOKING AT THIS, BECAUSE WE WATCHED THE TESTIMONY AND I SAW THE QUOTE A FEW TIMES, IS TEXAS GAS SAYING THEY CAN'T LOOK AT THIS BECAUSE THEY'RE LOCKED INTO A THREE YEAR BUDGET? OR I THINK I'M MISSING THE, THE, THE, UM, LIKE WHY THAT'S LIKE THE SMOKING GUN.

UM, BETWEEN 1987 AND 2017, THERE WAS A YEARLY CONSERVATION BUDGET IN 2018, TEXAS GAS SERVICE WENT TO A THREE YEAR BUDGET.

AND WHEN I PROTESTED AT CITY COUNCIL, UH, COMMISSIONER AND KITCHEN, UH, FORMER COUNCIL MEMBER ANNE KITCHEN, UH, WEIGHED IN AND SAID, WELL, IF WE WANT TO, CAN'T WE INTERVENE AND CHANGE THIS FROM YEAR TO YEAR? AND THE REGULATOR, UH, MS. HAWKINS SAID YES, UH, AND THE GAS COMPANY, UH, AND I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR THEM AND THEY WOULDN'T ALLOW ME TO, BUT THEIR RATIONALE WAS WE NEED A THREE YEAR BUDGET FOR CONSISTENCY BECAUSE SOMETIMES WE HAVE HOT YEARS AND SOME, UH, AND, AND MAKE A LOT OF MONEY IN THE WINTER AND UH, EXCUSE ME, DON'T MAKE A LOT OF MONEY IN THE WINTER.

AND SOMETIMES WE HAVE COLD YEARS AND MAKE A LOT OF MONEY AND WE NEED A THREE YEAR RATE TO NORMALIZE IT.

AND I JUST DIDN'T AGREE BECAUSE WE'D MANAGED FINE FOR ALL THOSE DECADES BEFORE.

THE CITY'S REGULATORY OFFICE HAS UNTIL NOVEMBER 30TH OF THIS YEAR TO APPROVE TEXAS GAS SERVICES ANNUAL CONSERVATION BUDGET.

SO IF WE APPROVE THIS THOUGH, IF WE, IF THIS RESOLUTION GOES FORWARD, THERE IS SOME SORT OF ANNUAL REVIEW THAT COULD BE DONE, OR YOU'RE JUST TRYING TO GET AHEAD OF THEM SAYING, OH, SORRY, YOU'RE ASKING FOR THIS IN THE MIDDLE OF A THREE YEAR CYCLE.

[01:00:01]

HE'S SHAKING HIS HEAD.

IS THAT NOT TRUE? NO, IT'S NOT TRUE.

WE'RE YEAR TWO, SO THAT'S, WELL, JASMINE KING BUSH, I'M NOT SURE IF YOU WERE ASKING ME OR NOT.

I APOLOGIZE.

SORRY.

NO, I WAS, I WASN'T, I WAS, IT WAS JUST SAID IN THE ROOM THERE'S SOME DEBATE ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT, UM, TEXAS GAS HAS UNTIL NOVEMBER OF THIS YEAR OR TILL NOVEMBER OF NEXT YEAR TO I GUESS RE-LOOK AT THE BUDGET.

I HAVE IT THROUGH AN EMAIL BECAUSE I ASKED THIS VERY QUESTION AND I WAS TOLD BY, UH, THE CITY'S HEAD OF THE OFFICE OF TELECOMMUNICATIONS AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS, UM, THAT THERE WOULD NEED TO BE A DEVIATION FROM THE THREE YEAR CYCLE, BUT THAT IT WAS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE TO DO.

YEAH, THAT'S, SO THAT RIGHT THERE IS JUST WHAT I'M TRYING TO, I'M JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHERE THE THREE YEAR THING COMES INTO THIS RESOLUTION, LIKE WHY THE THREE YEAR BENCHMARK IS RELEVANT.

UM, AND SO YOU'RE SAYING THERE IS SOMETHING OUT THERE, THERE'S, THERE IS SOME KIND OF STATEMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE THAT WOULD LEAD YOU TO BELIEVE THAT EVEN IF WE APPROVED THIS, IT WOULD BE KIND OF LIKE OUT A CYCLE AND THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO LOOK AT THIS UNTIL, IF WE DON'T DO IT BY NOVEMBER 30TH, ANOTHER THREE YEARS? UM, WELL, THEORETICALLY THERE WOULD BE ANOTHER RATE CASE IN 2024, BUT THEY DODGED THE LAST ONE.

UH, SO, AND WE'VE HAD FIVE YEARS NOW WHERE, UH, THEY HAVEN'T, UH, THEY HAVEN'T HAD A RAID CASE FOR CONSERVATION EVEN THOUGH IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE THREE YEARS.

LAST QUESTION, I PROMISE.

UM, SO YOU, WITH THIS RESOLUTION, I, I SAW SOMEWHERE IN ONE OF THE SLIDES.

I, I FEEL LIKE THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF SLIDES CIRCULATED.

I'M TRYING TO KEEP IT ALL STRAIGHT.

UM, SOMEWHERE I SAW LIKE A $900,000 SAVINGS.

IS THAT, UH, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE, MS. GOODWIN? YEAH.

SO WE ARE SAYING IF TEXAS GAS LOOKED AT THEIR, UM, REBATES MATCHED THEM TO THE NATIONAL AVERAGES, WE COULD SAVE, THEY COULD SAVE 942,213, WHICH YOU'RE SAYING COULD THEN ALSO COULD THEN BE USED FOR OTHER LOW INCOME PROGRAMS, IS THAT, UH, TO TRANSFER THESE INTO LOW INCOME, UH, PROGRAMS THAT TEXAS GAS SERVICE ALREADY HAS, THEY WOULD NOT NEED A NEW TARIFF OR THEY, UH, THEY, THEY SIMPLY HAVE TO ADJUST THEIR, REALLOCATE THEIR BUDGET.

IF THEY WERE GOING TO SET UP A CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE PROGRAM TO HELP PEOPLE ON THEIR BILL, THAT WOULD PROBABLY REQUIRE A NEW TARIFF.

AND I WOULD GUESS SOMEWHERE BETWEEN TWO AND SIX MONTHS BEFORE IT WENT TO COUNCIL.

SORRY.

SO I'M JUST SAYING THE, THE, THIS CHART IS SAYING YOU THINK THE, WHAT THEY COULD USE FOR ANY OF THOSE OPTIONS THAT YOU JUST STATED WOULD BE ABOUT 942,000? UH, THIS IS A GUESSTIMATE.

YEAH, YEAH, NO, I UNDERSTAND THAT.

THAT MAKES SENSE.

I LOOKED AT THEIR HEATING DEGREE DAYS AND I LOOKED AT THEIR WATER TEMPERATURE.

I JUST WANTED TO CONFIRM WHAT WE WERE SAYING.

I MIGHT ADD, THANK YOU THAT, UH, TANKLESS WATER HEATERS ARE REALLY KIND OF A LUXURY.

UH, IT, IT'S, THIS ISN'T THE ONLY REASON PEOPLE BUY THEM, BUT SOME PEOPLE BUY THEM TO GIVE THEIR TEENAGERS 30 MINUTE HOT SHOWERS.

I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S INSTANT.

IT'S THERE WHEN YOU NEED IT, BUT IT'S REALLY NOT AN ESSENTIAL ITEM.

COMMISSIONER BRENT.

HELLO.

UM, QUESTION ABOUT THE SLIDE BEFORE THIS.

CAN YOU HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS ADJUSTED FOR THE NATIONAL AVERAGE? YES.

UM, I SENT ALL COMMISSIONERS A, UH, 10 TAB SPREADSHEET.

UH, I ALSO SENT IT TO, UH, THE GAS COMPANY.

UH, AND THERE'S A SUMMARY ANALYSIS.

AND ONE THING THAT I DID IS WHEN I LOOKED AT A UTILITY, LIKE IT'S IN MINNESOTA,

[01:05:01]

'CAUSE OBVIOUSLY IF YOU HAVE COLDER, UH, TEMPERATURES AND COLDER WATER, THE UH, FURNACE OR THE WATER HEATER IS GOING TO WORK MORE AND SAVE MORE ENERGY.

AND SO I ADJUSTED IT FOR THAT.

AND I ALSO WAITED THESE FOR THE POPULATION, UH, A UH, UTILITY IN, UM, MINNEAPOLIS IS GONNA HAVE A WHOLE LOT MORE CUSTOMERS THAN A UTILITY IN NORTH DAKOTA.

SO I TRIED TO COMPENSATE FOR THAT AS WELL.

AND SO YOU ADD IT ALL IN, PUT IN A LITTLE SALT AND VINEGAR AND SHAKE IT UP.

AND THAT'S WHAT CAME OUT WITH THE NUMBERS.

GOT IT.

AND YOU CAN BE FORGIVEN FOR NOT WANTING TO LOOK AT THE 10 TAB SPREADSHEET.

I, I WOULDN'T SAY IT'S THAT.

I DON'T WANT TO, I THINK I'VE, THERE'S A LOT OF CONTENT, SO I'M, IT'S DIFFICULT FOR ME TO KEEP UP AS WELL.

UH, I TRY TO DOCUMENT EVERYTHING, BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE HAVE LIMITED TIME.

ACTUALLY, ON THAT POINT, ON THE EXCEL SHEET, DID YOU FIND THAT THERE WERE BIG VARIATIONS IN THE NATIONAL AVERAGES? LIKE TO GET TO THIS LOWER POINT? 'CAUSE I, I WOULD BE CURIOUS, AND I KNOW YOU SAID THAT YOU HAD MESSAGED TEXAS GAS TO RESPOND TO THIS AND THEY, THEY DIDN'T OR THEY DID LAST MINUTE WITH THIS PRESENTATION.

AND I GUESS I'M JUST, I DON'T KNOW, LIKE, IS IT, IS IT, UM, IS IT NORMAL FOR A GAS FOR THE TEXAS GAS COMPANY OR IS THERE A REASON WHY THEY ARE OR ARE NOT LOOKING AT AVERAGES? YOU WOULD THINK THAT THEY WOULD WANNA KNOW THAT INFORMATION, BUT MAYBE I, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A RATIONALE FOR DOING IT, YOU KNOW, THEIR OWN WAY.

I OFFER MR. GRAHAM A CHANCE TO COMMENT ON THIS TO THE ENTIRE COMMISSION.

HE'S BYPASSED IT.

WELL, CAN WE HAVE HIM HERE? IS HE NOT ALLOWED TO SPEAK? CAN CAN HE SPEAK? COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN HAS A QUESTION AS WELL.

HAS HER NAME, UH, OKAY.

UH, LET'S TAKE, UH, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN AND THEN, UH, MR. GRAHAM CAN COME UP.

I, UM, JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT I FIND COMMISSIONER ROBBINS RESEARCH PRETTY COMPELLING, AND I WOULD HAVE TO HEAR SOME DARN GOOD REASONS TO JUSTIFY WHY THE TEXAS GAS SERVICE REBATES ARE SO SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER THAN THESE AVERAGES, PARTICULARLY BECAUSE THE, THE USES THAT WE PUT GAS TO HERE IN TEXAS DO NOT SEEM SIGNIFICANTLY MORE, UM, CHALLENGING OR TO HAVE A HIGHER COST EFFECTIVENESS BURDEN THAN THOSE ELSEWHERE.

SO FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH, I, I AM, UM, COMPELLED BY THIS RESEARCH AND WOULD SUPPORT THIS RESOLUTION.

THE, UH, CLIMATE EQUITY PLANNING WITH THE CITY OF AUSTIN AND WE'VE BEEN ASKED TO HAVE CUSTOMERS REDUCE EMISSIONS.

AND ALSO, JUST FOR THE RECORD, TOTALLY HATE TANKLESS WATER HEATERS, BUT THAT'S JUST ME , UM, LARRY GRAHAM OF TEXAS GAS SERVICE.

SO I THINK YOU GUYS WERE SENT A COPY OF A REPORT IN 2020.

THE CITY, NOT US, THE CITY, UM, HIRED A THIRD PARTY CONSULTING FIRM TO REVIEW OUR PROGRAMS. AND PART OF THAT WAS TO LOOK AT REBATES FROM, UH, THAT OTHER UTILITIES, UH, GAVE.

AND I THINK IN THAT REPORT FROM 2020, IT SAID THAT WE WERE IN, UH, CERTAINLY WITHIN THE, UH, THE RANGE OF THE OTHER UTILITIES THAT THEY FOUND.

RIGHT? SO I CAN'T SPEAK TO WHAT PAUL DID, BUT I WOULD SAY, I WANNA MAKE SURE YOU KNOW, THAT IN 2020, UH, THE, THE CITY, THE OFFICE OF TELECOMMUNICATIONS REGULATORY AFFAIRS HIRED, SPENT A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS, HIRED A THIRD PARTY TO REVIEW ALL OF OUR PROGRAMS, AND THEY FOUND THAT WE WERE IN LINE WITH THE REBATE AMOUNTS.

AND I, I, ONE THING WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT TOO IS I WANNA MAKE SURE EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS THIS A COUPLE POINTS.

UH, THE FIRST IS WE DON'T MAKE ANY MONEY OFF THE REBATES, RIGHT? SO THAT IS NOT PART OF OUR REVENUE STREAM.

THE MONEY THAT WE, THAT WE COLLECT, THE CURRENT TARIFF SAYS THAT 70% OF IT HAS TO BE SPENT ON REBATES.

WE CAN SPEND SOME ON THE, UH, THE EDUCATION AND SOME ON ADMINISTRATION, RIGHT? SO WE, WE DON'T MAKE ANY MONEY.

THE OTHER THING IS WE WENT THROUGH

[01:10:01]

AND WE ONLY HAVE A COUPLE WAYS TO DO THAT.

AND GIVING REBATES IS ONE OF THOSE, RIGHT? AND GOING BACK TO WHAT PAUL SAID, WE THINK THE REBATES AND THE AMOUNTS THAT WE GIVE ARE COST EFFECTIVE.

SO THE WHOLE QUESTION ABOUT COULD WE ADJUST THE REBATES NOW? YES, WE COULD IF WE THOUGHT THAT THEY NEEDED TO BE ADJUSTED.

WE DON'T BELIEVE WHAT PAUL HAS SAID.

WE DON'T BUY INTO HIS RESEARCH BECAUSE IT IS ALREADY BEEN DONE AND WE THINK WE'RE IN LINE WITH OTHER UTILITIES AND WE WANT THE REBATES.

THEY'RE SET AT A LEVEL TO INCENT PEOPLE TO PURCHASE EQUIPMENT THAT IS MORE EFFICIENT THAN THE CODE REQUIRES.

AND WHAT THAT DOES IS THAT THAT RESULTS IN LESS GAS BEING CONSUMED.

SO IF WE DID WHAT PAUL DOES ONCE AND GOT RID OF HALF OF THE REBATES, THEN THE MORE GAS IS ULTIMATELY GONNA BE CONSUMED.

'CAUSE PEOPLE WILL HAVE LESS EFFICIENT APPLIANCES.

MAY I RESPOND? UH, AFTER, UH, COMMISSIONER HAS TWO, HAS TWO QUESTIONS.

WHAT'S GOING ON? OH, IT'S, THERE IT GOES.

QUICK QUESTION THEN ON THAT.

SO ONE IS, AND I TOOK A QUICK LOOK AT THE PRESENTATION, BUT, UM, DO YOU, IT IS, YOU KNOW, IT'S A 2020 REPORT.

WE'RE AT THE END OF 2023.

PRESUMABLY THE DATA WAS COLLECTED IN 2019 TALKING ABOUT A REPORT THAT'S CLOSE TO FOUR YEARS OLD.

DO YOU HAVE PLANS TO UPDATE THE REPORT? WELL, AGAIN, WE DIDN'T DO IT.

THE, THE CITY HIRED SOMEONE AND THEY WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR HAVING THAT DONE.

SO I DON'T KNOW.

WE COULD ASK RONELL IF SHE HAS A, A, A PLAN TO DO THAT.

I MEAN, WE COULD, BUT I THINK EVERYONE FELT THAT IT WAS BETTER IF IT WAS DONE BY A THIRD PARTY AND IT WASN'T SOMETHING THAT WE CONTRACTED FOR.

I, I THINK IT MAKES SENSE TO DO IT THROUGH A THIRD PARTY.

I'M JUST, THAT'S HELPFUL TO KNOW WHO'S INITIATING THAT IT NEEDS TO BE DONE AGAIN.

AND THEN THE OTHER THING IS THIS PRESENTATION WAS HELPFUL IN TERMS OF SUMMARY AND OVERVIEW BUT WERE YOU GIVEN THE UNDERLYING DATA TO TEST SOME OF THESE ASSUMPTIONS? BECAUSE A LOT OF THIS IS STATED LIKE RATHER SUM, SUMMARILY, SUMMARILY, WHERE IT'S JUST LIKE, HERE'S A FACT OF, YOU KNOW, LIKE, WHICH JURISDICTIONS WERE USED.

HOW OUT OF LINE ARE YOU, WHERE ARE THE AVERAGES COMING FROM? LIKE, I WOULD EXPECT TO SEE A SIMILAR, YOU KNOW, 12 TAB EXCEL SHEET UNDERLYING THIS PRETTY POWERPOINT PRESENTATION FOR YOUR PURPOSES AS YOU'RE LOOKING AT COST EFFECTIVENESS, IS THAT WHAT YOU HAD? YEAH, SO THE, SO THERE'S A, WE DO HAVE A THIRD PARTY THAT DOES A COST EFFECTNESS EVERY SIX MONTHS.

AND WE'VE, WE'VE ACTUALLY HAD, UM, THE PERSON THAT DOES THAT COME TO THE MEETINGS.

HE'S BEEN HERE A FEW TIMES AND WE CAN, WE CAN WALK PEOPLE THROUGH THAT AGAIN IF, IF YOU WOULD LIKE.

BUT IT'S A PRETTY DETAILED, THERE'S FIVE DIFFERENT TESTS THAT ARE CONDUCTED.

AND WE DID IT WITH PAUL, GOSH, THREE, FOUR MONTHS AGO.

NOT ALL THAT LONG AGO.

WELL, RIGHT THERE, THERE WERE, UH, THREE OF US ACTUALLY.

WHAT I THINK THESE FOUR PROGRAMS ARE.

UH, MYSELF AND COMMISSIONER GARY AND COMMISSIONER KARA GOTTI.

RIGHT.

UM, YEAH.

UM, I, UH, WOULD LIKE TO RESPOND IF I COULD, YOU NEED TO ASK THE CHAIR.

VERY GOOD, VERY CLEVER.

UH, OKAY.

UM, REGARDING THE, UM, REPORT THAT YOU SENT THE COMMISSIONERS AT THREE 40 THIS AFTERNOON, UM, I MEAN, I CAN UNDERSTAND DEBATING THESE THINGS, UH, 'CAUSE THEY CAN GET CONFUSING AND SOMEWHAT COMPLEX TO THE UNINITIATED, WHICH IS WHY I HAD ASKED YOU IF YOU HAD A RESPONSE TO SEND IT AT LEAST A WEEK AHEAD OF TIME AND TO SEND IT TWO HOURS AND 20 MINUTES BEFORE.

OUR MEETING IS JUST REALLY NOT A WHOLE LOT OF TIME REGARDING THE A D M REPORT THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

UM, THE BENCHMARK UTILITIES THAT THEY COMPARED IT TO WERE BASICALLY CHERRY PICKED FROM MOSTLY THE SOUTHERN PART OF THE UNITED STATES AS I RECALL.

UH, AND REGARDING THE, UH, LOWERING OF EMISSIONS, UH, I AM A CARBON HAWK AND I APPLAUD LOWERING EMISSIONS, BUT THERE'S SUCH A THING AS, UH, DIMINISHING RETURNS.

AND THAT'S

[01:15:01]

UH, IN THE CASE OF ONE OR TWO OF THEM, THEY'RE JUST MARKETING COMMISSIONER DAVIS.

UM, I APPRECIATE THE SURVEY THAT YOU DID AND FOR SHARING THAT WITH US.

UM, THERE'S DEFINITELY A LOT OF DATA IN HERE.

UM, I HAVE A FEW OBSERVATIONS SLASH QUESTIONS.

ONE OF THEM IS, FOR THE NATIONAL AVERAGE THAT YOU USED, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU USED ABOUT 105, 110 ISH UTILITIES WAS THE UNIVERSE.

UM, IS THAT, WHAT KIND OF A SAMPLE IS THAT AND HOW IS THAT, HOW CAN YOU, CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW THAT IS A REPRESENTATIVE SAMPLE? 83%, 83% OF ALL THE GAS CUSTOMERS IN THE COUNTRY WERE COMPARED TO TEXAS GAS SERVICE AND, UH, OKLAHOMA NATURAL GAS, WHICH IS AN AFFILIATE.

THAT'S FANTASTIC.

UM, SECONDLY, IT LOOKS LIKE IN HERE THERE'RE ALMOST, IS THERE ANY UTILITY THAT DOES GIVE REBATES FOR DRYER STUBS? NONE OTHER THAN, OTHER THAN OKLAHOMA NATURAL GAS AND TEXAS GAS SERVICE, I COULD FIND NONE.

NOW, THERE ARE SOME UTILITIES THAT WILL, WILL, UH, GIVE YOU, UH, INCENTIVES TO SWITCH FROM ELECTRICITY TO NATURAL GAS IN ORDER TO GET THE GAS COMPANY, THOSE GAS COMPANIES MORE BUSINESS.

BUT EVEN THEN, UH, THEY WERE NOT SPECIFIED AS DRYER CONNECTIONS.

I SEE.

SO I GUESS JUST, YOU KNOW, MY OBSERVATION ABOUT THIS IS JUST THAT WHILE, UM, TEXAS GAS MAY NOT MAKE MONEY ON THESE PROGRAMS, I THINK THE, YOU KNOW, IT, AT THE RISK OF STATING THE OBVIOUS, IT PUTS BRAND NEW APPLIANCES WITH 10 TO 15 YEAR LIFESPANS INTO HOMES AND RESIDENCES.

UM, AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING WHEN WE NEED TO BE DECARBONIZING, WE NEED TO BE ELECTRIFYING AT A VERY RAPID RATE.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS, YOU SHOULD GIVE EVERYONE IN THIS ROOM PAUSE.

UM, IT, YEAH, I THINK, UM, THE REBATES ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO CHOOSE GAS OVER, YOU KNOW, OVER ELECTRIC OPTIONS, ELECTRIC OPTIONS.

AND SO I THINK IF THESE ARE SO FAR OUT OF THE, SORT OF THE NORM OR THE AVERAGE, UM, IT FEELS LIKE A GOOD TIME TO BE DEFINITELY SCRUTINIZING THAT.

UM, JUST TO CAUTION YOU, WHEN THE, UH, COMMISSION PASSED, UH, A RESOLUTION IN THIS DIRECTION, NOT THE SAME RESOLUTION, BUT, UH, IN THIS DIRECTION LAST YEAR, UH, AND IT TALKED ABOUT ELECTRIFICATION, TEXAS GAS SERVICE WENT TO THE CITY COUNCIL AND SAID, THIS VIOLATES THIS COULD VIOLATE STATE LAW BECAUSE STATE LAW NOW FORBIDS A CITY TO DECREE ELECTRIFICATION.

UM, NOW THERE IS NOTHING IN THIS RESOLUTION THAT SAYS ANYTHING ABOUT ELECTRIFICATION.

THIS MAY BE WHY YOU VOTE FOR IT, BUT I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY SO THAT THIS SAME CIRCUMSTANCE DOES NOT HAPPEN AGAIN.

UM, COMMISSIONER DAVIS.

COMMISSIONER DAVIS, I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT BASED ON THE CURRENT GENERATION MIX OF AUSTIN ENERGY, THERE'S LESS CARBON U USED TO HEAT YOUR WATER AND TO HEAT YOUR, UH, SPACE HEATING USING GAS.

RIGHT.

AND IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THAT GENERATION MIX THAT AUSTIN ENERGY USES IS GONNA CHANGE ANYTIME SOON.

SO I JUST WANNA POINT THAT OUT.

JUST BECAUSE IT'S ELECTRICITY DOESN'T MEAN IT'S CARBON FREE.

HOT WATER AS A TIME SHIFT DEVICE AND MATERIALLY REDUCE OUR USE OF GAS AT THE TIME WHEN THE GRID IS TIGHT AND MAKE BETTER USE OF SOLAR AND LOW EMISSIONS WIND SO THAT THE MAGIC OF A AND, AND WE ARE ALSO, LET'S REMEMBER FACING THE DAY WHEN WE ARE RUNNING SHORT ON WATER AGAIN AND AGAIN, WHICH IS ONE OF THE REASONS THAT, THAT I DON'T LIKE MY TANKLESS WATER HEATERS IS BECAUSE THEY WASTE SO MUCH WATER HEATING UP BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT INSTANT.

I UNDERSTAND THAT.

UM, ON, ON THE OTHER HAND, SORRY, LET ME, MY, ON THE OTHER HAND, THE VALUE OF HAVING, UM, A WATER TANK WITH THE ABILITY TO USE HOT WATER IN A TANK TO TIME SHIFT SOLAR OR STORAGE OR NATURAL GAS TO MEANS THAT WE CAN USE WATER,

[01:20:01]

SO, SO THE ABILITY TO MANAGE THE GRID MORE EFFECTIVELY AND BETTER LEVERAGE LOW CARBON RESOURCES ON THE ELECTRIC SIDE AND TO USE WATER TANKS TO MANAGE OUR USE OF NA OUR TIMING AND USE OF NATURAL GAS MORE EFFECTIVELY IS AS VALUABLE AS THE MERE CARBON EMISSIONS ITSELF.

UM, WE'RE HAVING A FULL AND ROBUST DISCUSSION HERE, BUT, UM, AND I DON'T WANT TO CUT OFF ANYBODY.

WE CANNOT GO ON ALL NIGHT AND WE HAVE ONE OTHER RESOLUTION.

SO, UM, ARE THERE ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? YES.

SO GOING BACK TO THE THIRD PARTY CONSULTANT THAT THE CITY HIRED, I BELIEVE YOU STATED THAT, THAT THEY FOUND THAT EVERYTHING WAS IN LINE WITH THE REBATES.

SO DO YOU BELIEVE THAT IF IT WASN'T, THE COUNCIL WOULD'VE MADE THE NECESSARY CHANGES BASED ON THE CONSULTANT THAT THEY HIRED? PAUL? OH, I'M SORRY.

I THOUGHT YOU WERE ADDRESSING THIS TO LARRY.

FORGIVE ME.

UH, WELL, THE, THE STUDY WAS ACTUALLY DONE AFTER THE, UH, THE, UH, 2018 RATE CASE, NOT BEFORE.

UH, THE, THE, THE, UH, CLIP THAT I SHOWED YOU WAS IN NOVEMBER OF 2018, AND THE STUDY WAS DONE IN NOVEMBER OF 2020.

SO IT WAS KIND OF, UH, WELL, IT, IT, IT WAS VERY LATE.

AND REGARDING THE THIRD PARTY, YOU, YOU KNOW, IF, IF I HAD HAD MORE THAN TWO HOURS AND 20 MINUTES AND UNDERSTAND IT TAKES ME AN HOUR TO GET HERE.

SO IF I HAD HAD A LITTLE MORE TIME TO RESPOND, I COULD HAVE ACTUALLY BROKEN DOWN WHAT WAS IN, WHAT WAS NOT.

IN THAT STUDY, UH, THE CONSULTANT A D M HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO WHAT I DID.

THEY HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO GET RECEIPTS AND SEE IF THE, UH, DEEMED COSTS WERE THE REAL COST.

THEY DID NOT DO THAT.

I WAS HORRIBLY FRUSTRATED BY THAT.

UH, AND AS I RECALL, AGAIN, WHEN THEY LOOKED AT BENCHMARK UTILITIES, THEY CHERRY-PICKED, OR AT LEAST THEY HANDPICKED THEM.

IN MY OPINION, SHERRY PICKED THEM.

UH, AND THERE WERE JUST NOT THAT MANY.

UH, I WENT ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AND IF YOU WANTED TO TAKE THE SPREADSHEET THAT I SENT YOU AND ACTUALLY PARSE OUT, WELL, WHAT IF WE JUST LOOK AT TEXAS? WHAT IF WE JUST LOOK AT, UM, THE SOUTH? WHAT IF WE, YOU COULD HAVE LOOKED AT IT 10 DIFFERENT WAYS AND THE DATA WAS ALL THERE.

SO AGAIN, I HAD, UH, HAD THIS BEEN GIVEN TO US IN A TIMELY MANNER.

WE, UH, I I I COULD RESPOND MORE FULLY.

THIS IS WHAT I CAN TELL YOU ON THE FLY.

I WOULD JUST LIKE TO ADD, WELL, SORRY.

DOES COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN MIGHT HAVE HER HAND UP COMMISSIONER SILVER? I DO.

I DO.

I, UM, TRIED TO GO THROUGH THE MATERIAL THAT WE RECEIVED LATE THIS AFTERNOON, AND I FIND IT UNUSEFUL UNHELPFUL FOR TWO REASONS.

ONE OF THEM IS THAT IT USES 2018 DATA.

THIS IS NOW 2023.

GAS COSTS HAVE INCREASED MARKEDLY, AND IN PARTICULAR, WE NOW HAVE ADDITIONAL COSTS RESULTING FROM WINTER STORM YURI THAT HAVE MATERIALLY CHANGED THE AMOUNT THAT, THAT TEXANS PAY FOR NATURAL GAS.

SO I DON'T THINK THAT, AND, AND THE STUDY HA IS SO UNCLEAR WHAT WE RECEIVED, THAT I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT IS IT'S TELLING ME AND WHAT THE DATA ARE BEHIND IT.

SO I FIND THE STUDY TO BE OF NO RELEVANCE OR HELP WHATSOEVER.

UM, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT ANOTHER STUDY THAT ACTUALLY OFFERS CONTEMPORARY DATA WITH USEFUL ANALYSIS MIGHT REACH, HELP ME REACH A DIFFERENT CONCLUSION.

BUT THE PARTICULAR STUDY WE RECEIVED AS NO HELP WHATSOEVER.

WHAT COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN SAID, AND I THINK THAT, UH, WE NEED LIKE THE UNDERLYING DATA, LIKE NOT THE POWERPOINT PRESENTATION, BUT WHAT'S, WHAT IS THIS ALL BASED ON? THERE'S A LOT OF JUST KIND OF THINGS THROWN IN HERE WITHOUT THE DATA UNDERNEATH.

COMMISSIONER S SCAFF, I ACTUALLY COMPLETELY AGREE WITH

[01:25:01]

UM, AND I ALSO JUST WANNA CLARIFY 'CAUSE I FEEL LIKE I HEARD TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

SO SORRY IF I'M BEING DENSE HERE, BUT AT FIRST WE SAID THAT YOU ALL TEXAS GAS DOES NOT ASK, YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T CONTROL GETTING THE CONSULTANT DOING THE, DOING THE SURVEY.

BUT THEN I ALSO HEARD EVERY SIX MONTHS THEY RE-LOOK AT EFFECTNESS AND YOU ALL MET AT SOME POINT.

SO CAN YOU JUST CLARIFY? YEAH.

DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT CONSULTANTS.

SO BECAUSE OF THE CONCERNS THAT PAUL RAISED THE CITY OFFICE OF TELECOMMUNICATIONS AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS, UH, HAD THAT STUDY DONE.

WE, UH, YEAH, WE HAVE SOMEBODY THAT PERFORMS THE COST BENEFIT STUDIES, UH, EVERY SIX MONTHS.

AND, AND YOU, IS THAT YOU'RE SAYING THAT IT IS SHARED WITH THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION VIA THESE LIKE SMALL GROUPS? YEAH.

J 19 BUSH, ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM MANAGEMENT, TEXAS PRESS SERVICE.

I JUST WANNA CONFIRM THE ANNUAL, UH, E, M AND B REPORTING, UH, REVIEW IS DONE ANNUALLY.

SO, UM, NOT SIX MONTHS EV IT'S DONE ANNUALLY.

SORRY.

UM, AGAIN, I WANT TO ENCOURAGE A FULL AND ROBUST DISCUSSION, BUT WE, UH, COMMISSIONER CAROTTI.

YEAH, SORRY, I JUST HAVE ONE CLARIFYING, UH, STATEMENT.

UM, REPRESENTATIVE FROM TEXAS GAS SERVICE HAD MENTIONED THAT IF WE MOVE FORWARD WITH, UH, COMMISSIONER ROBBINS RESOLUTION, UH, BY USING, UM, PUTTING THE NATIONAL AVERAGE, UM, CUTTING THE COST ON TEXAS GAS SERVICE REBATES, THAT PEOPLE WOULD BE USING MORE GAS APPLIANCES.

UM, I, I, I THINK THE PO OUR POINT IS THAT THE REBATE AMOUNTS ARE SET.

WE LOOK AT WHAT OTHER UTILITIES DO AND WHAT IT TAKES TO INCENT SOMEBODY TO PURCHASE AN APPLIANCE THAT IS MORE EFFICIENT THAN THE CODE REQUIRES.

SO EVERYTHING WE GIVE A REBATE ON IS MORE EFFICIENT THAN THE CODE REQUIRES.

AND I THINK WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS, IF YOU LOWER THE AMOUNT OF THE REBATES, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE FEWER PEOPLE TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE REBATES AND PURCHASE THE MORE EFFICIENT, UM, EQUIPMENT, AND THEY WILL DEFAULT TO WHATEVER THE, UH, THE CODE REQUIRES, WHICH IS LESS EFFICIENT.

SO THAT WAS THE POINT WE WERE TRYING TO MAKE.

UH, COMMISSIONER GARY, UH, YOU SAID YOU MAY WANT TO ADD SOMETHING SO THIS WOULD BE THE TIME I NO, I, I HAD MY QUESTION ASKED.

I JUST THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE, WHEN IT COMES TO THESE REBATES, YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE WE'RE, WE'RE TAKING A PERSON'S CHOICE TO WHETHER TO CHOOSE OR NOT TO CHOOSE.

AND I THINK BY THE INCENTIVES BEING THERE FOR THEM TO CHOOSE, AS YOU STATED, THE LOW INCOME FAMILY, THEY HAVE THAT OPTION.

SO I DON'T SEE ANYTHING WRONG WITH THE PROGRAM, ESPECIALLY IF, IF THEY'RE GETTING COST EFFICIENT REVIEWS ON AN ANNUALLY BASIS.

SO THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY.

COMMISSIONER GARY, I DID EVERYTHING WITHIN MY HUMAN POWER TO FIND OUT WHO DEMOGRAPHICALLY WAS GETTING THESE REBATES.

I AM SORRY THAT IT WASN'T ENOUGH FOR YOU.

UH, COMMISSIONERS.

UM, CAN I MOVE TO VOTE? CAN WE, SHOULD WE MOVE? I WOULD, UM, YES, WE CAN.

UH, YOU'RE MOVING THE RESOLUTION FORWARD.

I AM NOT JUST BECAUSE I'M A PREGNANT HUNGRY LADY, BUT BECAUSE I THINK WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS AT LENGTH SECOND.

IT WAS NOT A SECOND UNTIL THEN.

IT'S BEEN MOVED AND SECONDED TWICE.

UM, SO, UH, CAN WE PLEASE VOTE? UM, UH, SINCE WE HAVE AT LEAST ONE DIS SENDER, WE'LL JUST DO A ROLL CALL, PLEASE.

WELL, I'M SORRY, I, I THOUGHT I HEARD YEAH, THAT IS VERY INAPPROPRIATE.

AND JUST DO THE ROLL CALL.

I APOLOGIZE FOR BEING INAPPROPRIATE.

UH, PLEASE CALL THE ROLE

[01:30:03]

VICE CHAIR ROBBINS.

YES.

UH, BRYN THE TIME TO VOTE.

IS THIS THE TIME TO MOTION TO, UM, TABLE IT? CAN I MAKE THAT MY VOTE, OR DO I NEED TO VOTE? ALSO? YOU MAKE AN ALTERNATE MOTION.

I MOTION TO TABLE I SECOND.

UH, AND WE WILL HAVE TO VOTE ON WHETHER TO TABLE THIS MOTION.

I WOULD CAUTION YOU THAT THIS IS KIND OF THE LAST CHANCE WE HAVE FOR THIS CALENDAR YEAR.

UH, WE HAVE ONE OTHER MEETING IN NOVEMBER, BUT IF WE DON'T GET THIS IN FRONT OF COUNCIL, UH, SOONER THAN THAT, UH, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE A PRACTICAL WAY OF AFFECTING THIS YEAR'S BUDGET.

SO YOU DO ROLL CALL ON THAT MOTION NOW? IS THAT WHAT YOU DO? WE ON THE FIRST ONE? FIRST ONE OR THE SECOND ONE, NATASHA? UM, THE MOTION TO TABLE.

WE NEED TO DO A ROLL CALL.

COMMISSIONER FARMER? UH, SORRY.

I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE ABOUT TO ROLL CALL.

COMMISSIONER KARA GOTTI.

UH, NO TABLING.

COMMISSIONER DAVIS? NO.

UH, AGAINST, I'M SORRY.

ARE YOU FOR TABLING OR AGAINST? AGAINST TABLING.

COMMISSIONER GARY? YES.

COMMISSIONER JOHNSON.

UH, AGAINST COMMISSIONER SCAFF AGAINST AND COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN OPPOSED THE TABLE? UH, MOTION, UH, BAILS? UH, SEVEN TWO.

UH, WE'LL GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL MOTION, UM, WHICH HAS BEEN MOVED AND SECONDED TWICE.

UM, SORRY, JUST TO JUMP IN REAL QUICK, CAN WE PUT THE MOTION OR THE RESOLUTION WE'RE VOTING ON UP ON THE SCREEN AS WE'RE DOING, AS WE'RE VOTING? MS. GOODWIN? UH, MS. EVERHART, ONE MOMENT.

CAN YOU PULL RIGHT.

COMMISSIONER JOHNSON, WERE YOU THINKING OF AMENDING THIS? NO, I JUST WANTED THIS TO, TO BE SURE THE ACTUAL RESOLUTION WE'RE VOTING ON IS UP ON THE SCREEN, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, TO MAKE IT MORE ACCESSIBLE AND, AND IN PART FOR THE, FOR THE RECORDING.

VERY GOOD.

UM, MS. GOODWIN, COULD YOU PLEASE CALL THE ROLL, UH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS? YES.

COMMISSIONER BRYN? NO.

COMMISSIONER CAROTTI? YES.

COMMISSIONER DAVIS? YES.

COMMISSIONER FARMER? YES.

COMMISSIONER GARY? NO.

COMMISSIONER JOHNSON? YES.

COMMISSIONER S SCAFF? YES.

AND COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN? YES.

MOTION PASSES.

SEVEN TO TWO.

UH, THE, I INVITED OUR, UH, CHAIR TO VOTE, UH, VIRTUALLY, BUT HE SAID HE WAS PREOCCUPIED.

UH, PUT A BUTTON ON THIS BY SAYING THAT, UM, I DIDN'T THINK THIS RESOLUTION WAS GOING TO TAKE THIS LONG, AND I, UH, ADMIRE, UH, PEOPLE'S INTEREST TO GET INTO THE WEEDS ON THIS.

WELL, UM, THANK YOU.

UM, THE,

[01:35:01]

HAVE ONE OTHER RESOLUTION, UH, APPROVE A RESOLUTION REGARDING COMMENDED RECOMMENDED ACTION TO BE TAKEN BY THE AUSTIN CITY COUNCIL IN REGARDS TO TEXAS HOUSE BILL 2263, PASSED BY THE 88TH TEXAS LEGISLATURE.

[6. Approve a resolution regarding recommended actions to be taken by the Austin City Council with regards to HB 2263 passed by the 88th Texas Legislature. (Sponsors: Robbins, Stone) ]

UM, AND I HAVE A THREE SLIDE PRESENTATION ON THIS.

IF MS. GOODWIN COULD CUE IT.

UM, SLIDE, UH, THE, UH, FRANCHISE RESOLUTION THAT, UH, GRANTS, UM, TEXAS GAS SERVICE, THE LICENSE TO OPERATE HERE HAS A CLAUSE IN IT THAT SPECIFICALLY DEALS WITH SOVEREIGNTY AT THE LOCAL LEVEL.

HERE IS THE ACTUAL WORDING.

UM, I'LL ALL OF YOU HAVE GOOD COMMAND OF THE LANGUAGE.

I'M NOT GONNA READ THIS ALOUD, BUT IT BASICALLY SAYS THIS CITY COUNCIL, UH, APPROVES THIS AND SLIDE.

UH, THE, UH, PROBABLY UNBEKNOWNST TO THE PEOPLE IN CHARGE AT CITY HALL, THEY CREATED THEIR OWN DEATH STAR BILL, UH, WHERE THEIR SEEDING LOCAL CONTROL, UH, TO THE STATE.

THEY BASICALLY, UH, PROBABLY DIDN'T KNOW THAT THIS CLAUSE IN THE FRANCHISE EXISTED AND THEY JUST TOLD THE, UH, LEGISLATURE, OH, GO AHEAD.

WE DON'T HAVE ANY OBJECTION.

THEY DIDN'T SEEK A WAIVER FOR AUSTIN, WHICH MIGHT HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN POSSIBLE SINCE ONE OF THE SPONSORS, UH, ONE OF THE THREE SPONSORS OF THIS SENATOR ECKHART, WAS FROM AUSTIN, AND SHE'S CERTAINLY, UH, SENSITIVE TO THE NEEDS AND CARESS OF THE CITY.

SO, UM, HAD SHE BEEN TOLD, SO WHAT I'M ASKING IN THIS RESOLUTION IS THREE THINGS THAT WE ASK THE CITY COUNCIL TO SEEK A WAIVER FROM HOUSE BILL 2263 WITH THE TEXAS RAILROAD COMMISSION.

UH, THEY ARE CURRENTLY TAKING RULES, COMMENTS ON THIS, AND THEY WILL BE OPEN THROUGH OCTOBER 25TH.

UH, THE SECOND THING, UH, IS IF A WAIVER IS NOT GRANTED, WE ASK THE RAILROAD COMMISSION, UH, TO STOP PROGRAMS THAT ARE NOT COST EFFECTIVE.

AND I AM REFERRING TO DRYER CLOSED DRYERS, FURNACES, AND TANKLESS WATER HEATERS.

UH, WE MIGHT TALK ABOUT THEM SPECIFICALLY, OR WE MIGHT, UM, JUST SAY IT GENERICALLY.

UH, AND LOW INCOME PROGRAMS WOULD BE EXEMPTED FROM, UH, COST-EFFECTIVENESS.

THEY ARE NOT MEANT TO BE COST EFFECTIVE.

AND THE THIRD THING IS THAT AFTER 2024, AFTER THIS NEXT BUDGET YEAR, I'M ASKING FOR EITHER A NEGOTIATION OR A FRANCHISE RULE THAT WILL HAVE THE CITY MANAGE THESE PROGRAMS. I REALLY DO NOT WANT TO GET INTO THIS THING YEAR AFTER YEAR TO GIVE YOU A, A VERY BRIEF BACKGROUND.

IN 1985, AND I WAS THERE, THEN TEXAS GAS SERVICE WAS MANDATED TO DO CONSERVATION, AND THEY DID THINGS VERY MUCH LIKE THEY WERE DOING NOW WHERE THEY TOOK SOME OF THE MONEY AND SPENT IT ON THINGS THAT WERE NOT COST EFFECTIVE OR FOR MARKETING.

AND IT BECAME A VOLATILE PUBLIC ISSUE.

AND BEFORE IT WAS OVER TEXAS GAS SERVICE WENT TO THE CITY AND SAID, WE WANT YOU TO MANAGE THEM.

[01:40:01]

UH, AND FOR 10 YEARS, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED.

AND THEY WERE SMALL, BUT THEY WERE WELL MANAGED.

AND THEN IN 1997, THE CITY, UH, CONSERVATION PROGRAMS, WHICH WERE FORMERLY OPERATED BY AN INDEPENDENT DEPARTMENT, WERE MERGED WITH AUSTIN ENERGY.

AND AT THAT POINT, THE GAS COMPANY SAID, AUSTIN ENERGY, YOU ARE OUR COMPETITOR, AND WE CAN'T HAVE THIS, THE CITY COULD HAVE SENT IT TO ANOTHER CITY DEPARTMENT.

INSTEAD THEY SURRENDERED THE PROGRAMS. AND WE ARE AT THE POINT TODAY WHERE THESE THINGS JUST KEEP UNRAVELING TO THE POINT WHERE WE'RE GIVING $325 FOR SOMETHING WITH A 208 YEAR PAYBACK.

UM, I JUST DON'T WANT THIS TO DOMINATE OUR COMMISSION'S TIME ANYMORE.

I, UM, I WANT THERE TO BE GOOD CONSERVATION PROGRAMS. I AM NOT OUT TO PUT ANYONE OUT OF A JOB AT TEXAS GAS SERVICE IF THESE COME TO THE CITY.

HEY, MAYBE THEY COULD WORK FOR THAT CITY DEPARTMENT.

I JUST AM LOOKING FOR A WAY OUT OF THIS, AND THIS SEEMS LIKE ONE WAY TO DO IT.

UH, WITH THAT, UM, I WILL OPEN IT UP FOR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS AND CRITICISMS. I HAVE A QUESTION.

UM, IS IT POSSIBLE ACTUALLY TO PUT UP THE RESOLUTION OR DO YOU WANNA STAY ON THIS SLIDE, PAUL? UH, NO, NO, I'M JUST, THAT'S A SUMMARY, PLEASE.

I JUST, IF YOU WANNA AMEND THIS.

WELL, I JUST HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE ACTUAL RESOLUTION.

SO THE FIRST SENTENCE SAYS, THE CURRENT CITY OF AUSTIN FRANCHISE AGREEMENT WITH TEXAS GAS SERVICE GIVES US THE PURVIEW TO ADVISE CITY COUNCIL ON MATTERS RELATED TO THE COMPANY'S ENERGY.

IS IT THE, IS IT REALLY THAT THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT GIVES US THAT PURVIEW? OR IS IT THAT THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT GIVES CITY COUNCIL THE PURVIEW? IT GIVES CITY COUNCIL THE PURVIEW, AND IF I MISWORDED IT, WE NEED TO AMEND IT.

I JUST WASN'T SURE IF THERE WAS LIKE, YOU KNOW, I HAVEN'T READ THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT, SO I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY, BUT THE, THE CITY COUNCIL, WE HAVE EXPLICIT, UH, PURVIEW TO REVIEW THESE PROGRAMS, AND THAT IS ALSO ON THE CHARTER, BUT AS WE ALL KNOW, WE'RE NOT A SOVEREIGN BOARD.

WE ARE HERE TO ADVISE.

YEAH, JUST TO CLARIFY, THE ADVISING MAKES TOTAL SENSE TO ME.

IT'S JUST WHETHER WHERE WE GET THE AUTHORITY TO DO THIS.

THE FIRST SENTENCE MADE IT SEEM LIKE THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT GIVES US SOME KIND OF PURVIEW.

OH, IT DOES, IT DOES.

EXPLICIT GIVES THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION, UH, IT GIVES US THE PURVIEW TO ADVISE CITY COUNCIL.

OH, OKAY.

THEY WILL ALLOW PROGRAMS THAT ARE NOT COST EFFECTIVE TO CONTINUE.

THAT'S WHAT I WAS ASKING.

QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS AND CRITICISMS. COMMISSIONER BRYNN.

HI.

I'M CURIOUS WHAT, UM, AUSTIN'S INVOLVEMENT WITH THE TEXAS GRA UH, TEXAS GAS SERVICE PROGRAMS HAS LOOKED LIKE YOU, YOU'RE SAYING THAT THEY'VE BEEN IN, WE'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN IT FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS.

UM, WHAT HAVE HAS AUSTIN BEEN DOING? WHAT HAVE WE BEEN DOING AND WHAT WILL NO LONGER BE POSSIBLE? WELL, I WAS REFERRING TO A PERIOD BETWEEN 1987 AND 1997.

AND WHAT I'M GOING, I'M GOING FROM MEMORY HERE, BUT AS I RECALL, WE DID WHAT TEXAS GAS SERVICE IS DOING IN THE WAY OF PARTNERING WITH, UH, INSULATION AND DUCT CEILING.

AND, UM, I DON'T THINK, I DON'T KNOW IF WE HAD PROGRAMMABLE THERMOS, WE DIDN'T HAVE NIST THERMOSTATS BACK IN THE DAY, BUT THE WEATHERIZATION KIND OF THINGS.

AND THEN WE ALSO HAD A LARGE PROGRAM FOR COMBO HEATERS WHERE YOU BOTH HEAT AND WATER HEAT YOUR HOUSE WITH ONE APPLIANCE.

SO IS THE IDEA THAT ALL OF THOSE THINGS WOULD END WITH THIS BILL THAT HAS PASSED? UH, EVERYTHING WITH THE RAILROAD COMMISSION IS UP IN THE AIR.

EVERYTHING IS NEW.

UH, AND, UM, THE RULES COMMENT PERIOD IS STILL OPEN IF ANYBODY WANTS TO COMMENT HERE.

BUT, UM, WHAT COULD HAPPEN IS THAT

[01:45:02]

AND SO I AM TRYING TO GET AHEAD OF THIS BY SAYING, CITY COUNCIL WEIGH IN HERE.

GOT IT.

SO IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU, THERE MAY BE A LEVEL OF DISTRUST INVOLVED WITH THE TEXAS RAILROAD COMMISSION OVERSEEING THEIR ACTIVITIES, AND SO YOU WANNA KEEP IT LOCAL? WELL, I AM NOT IN ANY WAY TALKING DOWN TO YOU.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN WHEN I SAY DEATH STAR? THE DEATH STAR BILL WAS A BILL PASSED IN THE LAST LEGISLATURE THAT BASICALLY PREEMPTED CITY GOVERNMENTS FROM DOING MANY, MANY, MANY THINGS THAT THEY FORMERLY DID.

AND IT TAKES AWAY LOCAL SOVEREIGNTY.

UH, AND THIS WAS KIND OF A MINI VERSION OF THAT, IF YOU WILL, EXCEPT AUSTIN WAS INAD ADVERSE, INADVERTENTLY COMPLICIT IN IT.

THEY DID NOT PROTEST IT WHEN THE CITY DID NOT PROTEST IT WHEN IT HAD THE CHANCE.

GOT IT.

UM, SO SEVERAL ENVIRONMENTALIST GROUPS WERE, ARE, AS FAR AS I KNOW IN SUPPORT OF THIS, WERE, UH, NO LONGER, UH, IT'S A CAVEAT.

UH, I THOUGHT I HAD SENT A NEWS STORY ABOUT THIS TO THE COMMISSION.

YOU DID.

AND, UH, COMMISSIONER BRAND, SOME I'VE SEEN YOUR WORK, YOU'RE VERY, UH, DEDICATED TO IT.

AND IT COULD BE THAT YOU MISSED IT, BUT DO YOU MEAN THE AUSTIN MONITOR ARTICLE? THE AUSTIN MONITOR? I READ IT, YEAH.

SO I'M ASK, I MY QUESTION MAYBE IT WASN'T CLEAR WAS, UM, IT, I MEAN IT FROM THE ARTICLE, IT SOUNDS LIKE U S G B C AND SIERRA CLUB AND LIKE SEVERAL OTHER ORGANIZATIONS ARE SUPPORTIVE OF IT, ACCORDING, WERE SUPPORTIVE OF IT, BUT THEN THEY SORT OF SAID, WELL, NOW THAT IT'S PASSED, WE'RE NOT SO SURE ABOUT SOME OF THIS.

UH, AND, UM, I DON'T THINK ANY OF THEM KNEW ABOUT THE LOCAL SOVEREIGNTY ASPECT OF THIS UNTIL I INFORMED THEM.

AND, UM, I THINK THAT, UH, SIERRA CLUB IN PARTICULAR, UH, I KNOW THIS 'CAUSE I TALKED TO, UH, CYRUS REED, UH, IS VERY WORRIED ABOUT COST EFFECTIVENESS AND THEY DO PLAN TO SUBMIT COMMENTS.

I, I'M NOT SURE WHAT THEY ARE YET.

I ACTUALLY HAVE THE SAME COMMENT AS COMMISSIONER BREN ABOUT I, UM, I THINK YOU KEEP GOING BACK TO THE, THE SOVEREIGNTY PART IS WHAT WE'RE LOSING HERE.

RIGHT? LIKE THAT, THAT THAT'S WHAT WE'RE AFRAID OF, THAT ANOTHER BODY WOULD ESSENTIALLY HAVE OVERSIGHT AND WE WOULD LOSE SOME OF THAT POWER.

UM, THE OTHER QUESTION ON THIS IS HOW DOES THIS RELATE BE BECAUSE IT DOES REFERENCE THE REBATES.

AGAIN, HOW DOES THIS RELATE TO THE RESOLUTION? WE JUST PASSED IT, THE RESOLUTION THAT WE JUST PASSED RELATES TO THE CURRENT SITUATION.

UH, THERE IS A RATE IN PLACE AND AUSTIN WOULD BE SOVEREIGN UNTIL SUCH TO MY KNOWLEDGE, AUSTIN IS SOVEREIGN UNTIL SUCH TIME AS THE RAILROAD COMMISSION PASSES A REPLACEMENT OR NEW RATE FOR TEXAS GAS SERVICE SINCE THEY'RE ONLY SETTING THE RULES.

NOW, I WOULDN'T EXPECT THAT TO HAPPEN, UH, QUICKLY.

BUT I I ON THE OTHER HAND, COULD NOT GIVE YOU A SCHEDULE FOR WHEN IT WOULD HAPPEN IF I WERE TO, IF YOU WERE TO MANDATE THAT.

I GUESS IT MIGHT HAPPEN A YEAR OR TWO FROM NOW, BUT I DON'T KNOW.

ONE MORE QUESTION.

IS THERE A, I KNOW THERE WAS A REAL TIMING CONSIDERATION FOR YOU FOR THE FIRST, UM, RESOLUTION.

IS THERE A REAL TIMING CONSIDERATION FOR THIS ONE TOO? UH, WELL IF WE ARE TO COMMENT TO THE, IF, IF AUSTIN COMMENTS TO THE RAILROAD COMMISSION AND IF THIS CITY BOARD AND COMMISSION WANTS THE COUNCIL TO BE INVOLVED, THEN WE HAVE TO MOVE ON IT BEFORE OCTOBER 25TH.

I'LL JUST PUT OUT

[01:50:01]

THERE THEN.

THE ONLY PART OF THIS THAT I FEEL A LITTLE WOBBLY ON IS, SO THERE'S THREE, IF YOU LOOK AT THE RESOLUTION, THERE IS THREE THINGS THAT IT'S A, YOU KNOW, ASKING CITY COUNCIL TO DO.

AND EACH ONE FOLLOWS THE THEN BE IT RESOLVED, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, THEN BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED THAT MIDDLE ONE, WHICH SAYS THREE SOURCE BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED THAT THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION ADVISED COUNSEL THAT IF THE WAIVER IS NOT GRANTED THAT THE CITY TAKE A POSITION IN FUTURE DELIBERATIONS, THAT THE REBATES FOR SPECIFIC APPLIANCES BE DISALLOWED BY THE COMMISSION IF THEY'RE NOT COST EFFECTIVE.

UM, I'M JUST TRYING TO GRAPPLE WITH, WE JUST SAID, HEY, WE WANT YOU TO DO A COST EFFECTIVE SURVEY.

WE WANT YOU TO LOOK INTO THIS, WE WANT YOU TO SEE WHAT YOU FIND.

AND I JUST DON'T WANT IT TO MAKE, I DON'T WANNA MAKE IT SEEM THAT WE ALREADY HAVE A PRECONCEIVED CONCLUSION ON WHAT THAT STUDY IS GONNA COME OUT WITH THE COST EFFECTIVENESS STUDY THAT WE'RE ASKING THEM TO KIND OF EXERCISE SOME OVERSIGHT OVER, UM, THOSE REBATES.

SO THAT'S MY ONLY KIND OF CONCERN.

IS THERE ANY SPECIFIC APPLIANCE MENTIONED? YEAH, IT SAYS, UM, THE CURRENT REBATES FOR GAS CLOSED DRYERS, TANK WATER HEATERS.

THEN LET'S, LET'S, LET'S JUST MAKE IT GENERIC.

AND IF THAT'S, IF THIS IS, I, I WOULD, UH, BE A, IT WOULD BE A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT IF WE COULD TAKE THE SPECIFIC APPLIANCES OUT AND IT WOULD JUST BE GENERIC COST-EFFECTIVENESS IS A STANDARD THING THAT RAPE CASES DETERMINE AND WE JUST WON'T SAY WHAT THEY ARE.

I, I WOULD BE FOR THAT.

I THINK THAT, OKAY.

WELL THEN THOSE ARE STRICKEN FROM THE RECORD.

SO JUST TO BE CLEAR, IT WOULD BE THE LAST SENTENCE, OR IT'D BE THE LAST TWO SENTENCES OF THE SECOND TO LAST PARAGRAPH.

THESE INCLUDE CURRENT REBATES FOR GAS, CLOTHES, DRYERS, TANKLESS WATER HEATERS, CENTRAL FURNACES, LOW INCOME PROGRAMS WOULD BE EXEMPT FROM COST EFFECTIVE REQUIREMENTS.

RIGHT.

'CAUSE WE'RE, WE'RE NOT TRYING, TRYING TO, WE COULD LEAVE THE LOW, WE COULD WHOEVER IS DRIVING THE, THE SCREEN, MOVE DOWN THE SCROLL DOWN SO WE CAN SEE THE TEXTS Y'ALL ARE TALKING ABOUT.

YOU'RE COMING ACROSS DISTORTED.

APPRECIATE IT.

UM, KEEPING THE LOW INCOME, UH, I, I, UM, AND, AND TAKE OUT THESE, THE FURNACES AND CLOSED DRYERS AND TANKLESS WATER HEATERS.

UH, AND I, I'M FINE WITH THAT.

UM, DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER, UH, QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, OR CRITICISMS? NO, THAT'S IT FOR ME.

OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, OR CRITICISMS? , IF WE COULD, YEAH, WE CAN'T HEAR YOU HONEY.

ACTUALLY, IT'S LIKE, IT'S REALLY MUFFLED.

COMMISSIONER KARA GOTTI, WE CAN'T HEAR YOU.

SO I, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOMETHING, SINCE THIS IS BRAND NEW, IS THERE ANY A POSSIBLE THAT WE CAN GET THE CITY ATTORNEY TO SPEAK ABOUT THIS, UH, PROVIDE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ABOUT THIS THAT JUST PASS THROUGH BEFORE WE MOVE FORWARD? BECAUSE I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE AND GET ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON THEIR END IF WE'RE GONNA COMMENT BEFORE OCTOBER 25TH.

NO, UM, BECAUSE I, I DON'T SENSE THAT THERE'S GONNA BE, UH, A COMMISSION THAT WANTS TO HAVE AN EMERGENCY MEETING NEXT WEEK.

UM, SO SO WHAT'S THE TIMELINE TO PUSH THIS THROUGH? 'CAUSE, BECAUSE WHAT I'M ASKING FOR IF WE CAN GET SOME CLARITY FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY, YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY CAN'T, UM, EMAIL OR PROVIDE INFORMATION, UH, AFTER THE, AFTER THIS VOTE? YES, OF COURSE THEY CAN.

I APOLOGIZE IF I MISUNDERSTOOD YOU, BUT, SO I DIDN'T MEAN AFTER THE VOTE, I MEAN PRIOR TO, BECAUSE I JUST WANTED ADDITIONAL INFORMATION.

I, FROM THEIR, FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY AND, AND WHAT HAS TEXAS GAS DONE PRIOR TO LIKE, DO WE KNOW WHERE THEIR STANCE IS? I MEAN, WE DEFINITELY CAN ASK, UH, CAN YOU SPEAK TO THIS A LITTLE BIT? UH, I COULD, UM, I, I, YES, OF COURSE HE CAN SPEAK, BUT I WILL ALSO, UH, MAKE TWO COMMENTS.

UH, FIRST

[01:55:01]

THE, UM, I DID NOT KNOW ABOUT THIS UNTIL MAYBE TWO WEEKS AGO.

IT IS GENERALLY THE CASE WHERE THIS COMMISSION LIKES TO THINK ABOUT THINGS FOR AT LEAST A MONTH AND THAT USUALLY HAS A GOOD EFFECT.

BUT IN THESE CASES, WE WERE OUT OF TIME, I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT 2263 UNTIL TWO OR THREE WEEKS AGO.

AND I GOT IMMEDIATELY IN GEAR TO TRY AND FIND OUT MORE AND IMMEDIATELY IN GEAR TO TALK TO PEOPLE INVOLVED REGARDING TEXAS GAS SERVICES RESPONSE.

ONE THING I CAN TELL YOU IS THAT THEY LOBBIED FOR THIS BILL AND I QUESTION HOW THEY CAN LOBBY FOR A BILL THAT IS AGAINST WHAT THEY SIGNED IN THE FRANCHISE, WHATEVER THEY DID IT.

AND I HAVE, UH, PROOF OF THAT, WHICH I'LL BE GLAD TO SEND YOU.

UH, MR. GRAHAM, YOU'VE BEEN SUMMONED.

LARRY GRAHAM WITH TEXAS GAS SERVICE.

UM, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE THINGS.

UH, YOU KNOW, ONE, I THINK THE IDEA OF YOU GUYS HEARING FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY ON THE BILL MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.

'CAUSE I DON'T WANT TO GIVE YOU GUYS, I CAN'T GIVE YOU LEGAL ADVICE, BUT I THINK YOU GUYS SHOULD HAVE SOMEONE, UM, I WILL SAY THAT I HAVE A COPY OF IT AND IT SAYS THAT THE RAILROAD COMMISSION NOW HAS EXCLUSIVE, ORIGINAL JURISDICTION AND YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA WORK WITH THE RAILROAD.

WE DO, WE DO NOT KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THIS MEANS.

AND LIKE PAUL SAID THERE, THEY HAVE SOME DRAFT RULES AND THE COMMENTS ARE NEXT WEEK.

AND SO WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY HOW THIS WORKS.

WHAT I WILL SAY IS IT WILL ENABLE US TO OFFER REBATES TO, YOU KNOW, AS MANY CUSTOMERS THAT, UM, WE OFFER TO.

NOW WE'LL BE ABLE TO DOUBLE THAT.

SO WE HAVE CUSTOMERS IN EL PASO AND UNINCORPORATED TRAVIS COUNTY THAT AREN'T ELIGIBLE TO GET REBATES.

AND SO THEY WILL.

AND SO IT WASN'T OUR BILL, BUT YES, WE SUPPORTED IT FOR THAT REASON, WE'LL BE ABLE TO DOUBLE THE NUMBER OF CUSTOMERS THAT CAN GET REBATES.

UM, SO I, I MEAN WE'RE GONNA WORK WITH THE RAILROAD COMMISSION AND WHOEVER TO, TO UNDERSTAND THIS AND TO SEE WHAT THE REGULATIONS ARE GONNA BE GOING FORWARD.

UM, THE BILL BECAME LAW THIS SUMMER, SO I THINK IT'S, IT'S IN EFFECT AND THERE WILL BE A TRANSITION PERIOD.

UH, WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO.

'CAUSE LIKE WE'RE GONNA WAIT TILL THE RULES ARE FINALIZED.

BUT I, I REALLY LIKE THE IDEA OF YOU GUYS GETTING SOME, IF YOU WANT TO PROVIDE COMMENTS TO THE RAILROAD COMMISSION, PLEASE DO THAT.

BUT I THINK, I THINK WE NEED TO GET THE CITY TO LOOK AT THE LEGISLATION UNTIL TELL YOU AND US WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR US GOING FORWARD.

UM, I DISAGREE WITH PAUL ON THE FRANCHISE.

THE FRANCHISE SAYS THAT, UM, WE WILL CONTINUE TO COME FOUR TIMES A YEAR AND BRIEF YOU AND WE'RE, WE'LL BE HAPPY TO, TO DO THAT.

UM, AND, YOU KNOW, IF THE REGULATORY AUTHORITY HAS MOVED TO THE COMMISSION, WE WILL HONOR THAT AND WORK WITH THEM.

BUT WE WILL ALSO HONOR THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT AND, AND COME TO YOU AND GIVE YOU UPDATES ON THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAMS, WHICH IS ALL THE FRANCHISE REQUIRES US TO DO.

THE AUTHORITY THAT THE CITY PREVIOUSLY HAD WAS NOT BECAUSE OF THE FRANCHISE, IT'S BECAUSE OF STATE LAW AND RATE MAKING AND BECAUSE THE CITY ALLOWED US TO CHARGE A RATE TO COLLECT MONEY FOR THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM.

SO ANYWAY, I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY YES, YOU HAVE A YES.

UM, ONE OF THE TOPICS THAT WAS RAISED WAS SORT OF LIKE A CHANGING PARTNERSHIP WITH AUSTIN ENERGY.

UM, DO YOU ANTICIPATE ANY, ANY CHANGE IN THAT PARTNERSHIP WITH, WITH THIS PASSAGE OF THE BILL? I DON'T THINK SO.

YOU KNOW, BUT AGAIN, WE NEED, I THINK ONE OF THE, THE THINGS WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IS, SO FOR EXAMPLE, IT'S BEEN TALKED ABOUT TODAY WE HAVE THAT PARTNERSHIP AMONG OTHER THINGS.

WE DO ATTIC CEILING AND DUCT CEILING WITH AUSTIN ENERGY.

AND AGAIN, PART OF THE LOGIC OF THAT IS IT IT BENEFITS THE GAS CUSTOMER IN THE WINTER FOR HEATING AND AUSTIN ENERGY CUSTOMER.

UM, WE WANT TO CONTINUE TO DO THAT.

THE THING IS, IF WE'RE REQUIRED TO OFFER REBATE THE SAME REBATE PROGRAM ALL ACROSS THE STATE, THAT MAY BE A PROBLEM.

'CAUSE WE DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE ELECTRIC UTILITIES IN EL PASO THAT MAY

[02:00:01]

WANT TO DO THAT, BUT WE WILL, WE'RE TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO CONTINUE TO DO THAT.

'CAUSE WE WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE TO DO THAT.

BUT AGAIN, THE, THE, THE RULES THAT THE ROAD COMMISSION, THEY, THEY'RE NOT FINAL.

THERE'S A LOT WE DON'T KNOW YET.

I AM, I'M GONNA RESPOND THAT, UM, WE, THE COMMISSION LOSES NOTHING BY WAITING.

UH, WE, WE LOSE NOTHING BY ACTING.

NOW IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT MAKES OUR RECOMMENDATION ILLEGAL, I'M SURE MR. GRAHAM'S COMPANY WILL LET THE COUNCIL KNOW LIKE HE TRIED BEFORE.

UM, I, THAT THAT'S NOT TRUE, PAUL.

AND, AND BY THE WAY, I AM NO WAY.

WE'RE TAKING NO POSITION ON THIS RESOLUTION.

AND IF YOU WANNA PROVIDE COMMENTS TO THE COMMISSION OR TO THE CITY, PLEASE, PLEASE DO SO.

UH, AND ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS OR CRITICISMS? YES, THERE'S A COMMENT FROM COMMISSIONER KARA GOTTI IN THE CHAT.

SHE SAYS, IN THE FIRST, WHEREAS IDENTIFIED THE COMPANY AS TEXAS GAS SERVICE AND COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN HAS HER HAND RAISED AS WELL.

UH, LET'S GO BACK TO, WAS SHE ASKING A QUESTION? MAKING A COMMENT? I'M SORRY.

I BELIEVE COMMISSIONER CAROTTI IS OFFERING A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT, WHICH IS AGAIN, PLEASE TO IDENTIFY THE COMPANY IN YOUR FIRST, WHEREAS AS TEXAS GAS SERVICE, FINE WITH ME.

AND MY COMMENT IS THAT, UM, GIVEN THE TIMING ISSUE, I WOULD RATHER, I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT WE PASS THIS, UM, RESOLUTION AND HAVE THE CITY ATTORNEY TELL US THAT IT IS NOT VALID RATHER THAN LOSE THE OPPORTUNITY BY WAITING.

COMMISSIONER FORMER? YES.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR CRITICISMS OR QUESTIONS? HEARING NONE? UH, I MOVE SECOND, UH, UH, MS. GOODWIN, COULD YOU PLEASE CALL THE RULE VICE CHAIR ROBBINS? YES.

COMMISSIONER BRYN, LIKE, NO.

COMMISSIONER KARA GOTTI.

I'LL CIRCLE BACK.

UH, COMMISSIONER DAVIS? YES.

YES.

COMMISSIONER GARY? NO.

COMMISSIONER JOHNSON.

I IN FAVOR.

COMMISSIONER SCAFF? YES.

COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.

AYE.

COMMISSIONER KARA GOTTI? YES.

CAN Y'ALL HEAR ME? WE CAN NOW.

ONE OTHER ITEM THAT WE HAVE, WHICH IS FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS. UM, AND WE ARE GOING TO, I'M A LITTLE FLAT FOOTED HERE.

THE, THE VOTE IS SEVEN TO TWO.

UH, AGAIN, I APPRECIATE, UH, YOUR WILLINGNESS TO GET INTO THE DETAILS ON THIS.

UM, THERE'S ONLY

[FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS ]

[02:05:01]

WE HAVE THREE THINGS THAT WILL LIKELY BE ON THE NEXT, UH, AGENDA.

WE'RE GOING TO BE DISCUSSING THE CREATION OF A PILOT PROGRAM THAT WOULD OFFER FUNDING TO 10 MULTIFAMILY SUPPORTIVE HOUSING PROJECTS TO HELP THEM ACHIEVE PASSIVE PASSIVE HOUSING CERTIFICATION.

THIS IS THE BRAINCHILD OF TREY FARM, UH, COMMISSIONER TREY FARMER.

I HAVE CO-SPONSORED IT IN, UH, CHAIR STONE HAS CO-SPONSORED IT, UH, TO GET IT HEARD.

UM, I'VE HEARD THE BRIEF DETAILS OF IT.

UH, I THINK IT'S A WINNER, BUT THIS IS, UH, REALLY TREY'S, UH, UM, PROJECT.

UH, WE'LL ALSO BE DISCUSS GETTING TEXAS GAS SERVICES QUARTERLY UPDATE ON CONSERVATION PROGRAMS. AND WE'LL BE GETTING AUSTIN WATER UTILITIES, UH, EXCUSE ME, AUSTIN WATERS, UH, THE AUSTIN WATER UTILITY, THEIR QUARTERLY UPDATE.

AND, UH, ARE THERE ANY OTHER, UH, AGENDA ITEMS THAT COMMISSIONERS WOULD LIKE TO ADD TO BE CONSIDERED FOR NEW BUSINESS? UH, YOU'RE MUTED.

COULD YOU SAY, UH, THANK YOU.

THE GREEN CHOICE PROGRAM WITH ADDITIONAL DETAILS FROM STAFF? UH, WE ROLLED IT OVER FROM THIS MEETING.

UM, YES, THEN WE WILL, WE WILL DO THAT.

UH, COMMISSIONER BRAND.

UM, I'M INTERESTED IN THE ECA PRESENTATION FOR JANUARY, UM, IF POSSIBLE.

UM, UM, OF COURSE, UH, THE DECISION TO SCHEDULE IT IS UP TO LEWIS STONE, BUT, UH, I WOULD, UH, ASK STAFF IF THEY COULD TEE THIS UP.

WE WILL, WE, WE HAVE IT ON, UM, OUR LIST OF T B D ITEMS FOR THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR.