[00:00:05]
[CALL TO ORDER ]
LOOKS LIKE, UH, I'LL BE, UH, LIKE I SAID, I'LL BE RUNNING, I'LL BE THE ACTING CHAIR[PUBLIC COMMUNICATION: GENERAL]
FOR THE EVENING.UM, SO I GUESS WE'LL BEGIN WITH PUBLIC COMMENT.
WE DO HAVE ONE SPEAKER, IS THAT CORRECT? YES.
UM, SO I, MY, MY COMMENTS TODAY WILL BE BASED ON WHAT I KNOW, UH, BUT WE, UH, ANTICIPATE, UH, AND PLAN TO, UH, PROVIDE YOU ALL WITH A SORT OF FORMAL WRITTEN, UM, UH, UH, SUM SUMMATION OF, OF OUR SORT OF STANCES ON THE VARIOUS, UH, TOPICS OF, OF IMPORTANCE TO US THAT, THAT YOU ALL HAVE UNDER CONSIDERATION.
UM, AND SO FIRSTLY, I DO WANNA JUST THANK Y'ALL, UH, FOR THIS IMPORTANT WORK.
THIS IS REALLY, UH, VALUABLE, UH, AND NECESSARY, UH, TO MAKE
UM, AND SO I'LL START WITH SOME OF THE, THE THINGS THAT I KNOW THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE'RE VERY MUCH IN SUPPORT OF, ONE IS SORT OF LABELING ALPHABET ROTATION, UH, THAT NUMBERING SYSTEM, UH, VERY, VERY IMPORTANT.
UH, WE WERE AGAINST THE PROP A AND THEN WE RAN A PROP, A
AND, AND THAT'S VERY CONFUSING, UH, AND, AND, AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, HAVE BEEN IN SUPPORT OF AND AGAINST VARIOUS PROP BS AS WELL.
SO, UH, WE UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, FIRSTHAND THE COMPLEXITY WITH TRYING TO EDUCATE VOTERS ANEW, UH, PARTICULARLY ON THE CURRENT CYCLE OF OUR ELECTIONS, UH, WHICH I UNDERSTAND IS ALSO, UH, FOR CONSIDERATION.
BUT, UH, WE THINK THAT'S GONNA HELP WITH, YOU KNOW, UH, LIMITING VOTER CONFUSION AND ALLOWING VOTERS TO EDUCATE THEMSELVES BETTER.
UM, WE ALSO WERE, UM, RAN THE RECENT PROP A THAT, UH, PASSED THIS MAY.
UH, AND THEREFORE WERE, YOU KNOW, TO OUR MIND, UM, SORT OF THE SUBJECT OF, UH, AN EFFORT TO PUT FORWARD AN INTENTIONALLY CONFLICTING INITIATIVE.
AND SO, UH, DO SUPPORT ADOPTING, UH, SOME, SOME RULES, SOME, UH, AFFIRMATIVE DEFINITIVE RULES, UH, THAT WILL GUIDE THE CITY, UH, AS IT, UH, ADDRESSES, UH, CONFLICTING MEASURES.
I THINK WE'VE, WE'VE PROVIDED YOU ALL, ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES HAS PROVIDED YOU ALL WITH SOME DIFFERENT APPROACHES THAT WE SEE AROUND THE STATE.
UM, I THINK WE'RE STILL FORMULATING OUR PREFERRED APPROACH.
THAT SAID, JUST HAVING WRITTEN RULES, UH, THAT WILL GUIDE THE CITY'S PROCESS THAT, UH, MIGHT BE LESS SUBJECT TO, UH, YOU KNOW, THE ABILITY OF A, OF A, OF PARTY TO INTENTIONALLY RUN A CONFLICTING MEASURE SIMPLY TO PREVENT THE IMPLEMENTATION OF AN EXISTING MEASURE OR EXISTING PETITION CAMPAIGN, UH, WILL BE BENEFICIAL, UH, AND DETER THAT BEHAVIOR, UH, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE ACTUAL SPECIFICS OF THE RULE ARE.
UH, SO AGAIN, I THINK, WE'LL, WE'RE STILL DIVING INTO AND RESEARCHING THE, THE VARIOUS TYPES OF APPROACHES AND THEIR VARIOUS LEVELS OF EFFECTIVENESS, BUT SIMPLY HAVING SOMETHING I THINK WILL BE POSITIVE, SO APPRECIATE Y'ALL'S EFFORTS ON THAT.
I THINK, UM, WE ARE, UH, VERY MUCH IN SUPPORT OF INCREASED PETITIONER TRANSPARENCY REQUIREMENTS AS THEY COLLECT SIGNATURES.
UH, I THINK WE, UH, VERY MUCH CAN GET BEHIND A, UH, PETITIONER REGISTRATION PROCESS, DEPENDING ON THE DETAILS OF THAT, UH, AND THE LENGTH OF TIME THAT IT WOULD TAKE FOR A PETITION REGISTRATION, UH, PROCESS TO, TO OCCUR.
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I THINK OUR, OUR PRIMARY ISSUE WHERE WE HAVE SOME THING, AND I'LL, I'LL STOP ON THIS SENTENCE, IS JUST WE DO BELIEVE THAT THE RECENT RISE IN COSTS, PARTICULARLY LABOR COSTS AS IT RELATES TO SIGNATURE COLLECTION, UH, ALONG WITH THE EXISTING CHARTER RULES, WHICH ARE STATE, UH, GUIDED, UH, MEAN THAT IT, THERE IS NOT THE LITTLE TO NO VALUE IN INCREASING THE SIGNATURE THRESHOLDS FOR CITIZENS INITIATIVES.AND SO AT THIS POINT IN TIME, WE WOULD BE OPPOSED TO THAT EFFORT.
UH, AND I, AND, AND, AND I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS AS IT RELATES TO THAT OR ANY OF THE OTHER, UH, ITEMS THAT, THAT YOU ALL ARE CONSIDERING.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE TIME.
[APPROVAL OF MINUTES ]
UM, THE NEXT ITEM IS FOR US TO APPROVE, UH, THE MINUTES FROM, UH, FROM LAST WEEK FROM, UH, OUR LAST MEETING.IS THERE A MOTION TO CHAIR? I HAVE ONE MINOR CORRECTION THAT WE CAUGHT ON THE TIME.
WE, IT'S JUST, UM, WE TYPED A FIVE TWICE, SO I'LL JUST FIX THAT IF EVERYONE IS OKAY WITH THAT.
NO, NO OBJECTION FROM THE CHAIR.
IS THERE, IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES? SO MOVED.
ANY OPPOSED? THE AYES HAVE IT.
[2. Discussion regarding a Charter amendment concerning an Independent Ethics Commission. (Commissioner Greenberg) ]
OKAY.SO WE'VE GOT SOME, UH, DISCUSSION ITEMS. FIRST OF WHICH IS THE, UH, DISCUSSION REGARDING A CHARTER AMENDMENT CONCERNING INDEPENDENT ETHICS COMMISSION.
I BELIEVE, UH, SOMEBODY AT THE PRIOR, UH, PREVIOUS MEETING BROUGHT THIS UP.
SORRY, I DIDN'T REALLY PAY ATTENTION THAT IT WASN'T ON THE AGENDA, BUT, UM, I WAS ON THE ETHICS COMMISSION TILL, I GUESS, THE MOST RECENT ELECTION.
AND I THINK THE FACT THAT THE APPOINTMENTS ARE MADE BY THE COUNCIL IS PROBLEMATIC BECAUSE, UM, NOT THE LEAST OF WHICH IS THAT IF THERE'S A COMPLAINT AGAINST A COUNCIL MEMBER, THEIR APPOINTEE HAS TO RECUSE.
AND NOW I THINK WITH ANOTHER, UM, APPOINTMENT MADE OF A COUNCIL MEMBER'S SPOUSE, UM, ANOTHER PERSON WOULD HAVE TO RECUSE AND, UM, IF IT WAS INDEPENDENT, THEY WOULDN'T SORT OF TRY TO PROTECT THE COUNCIL.
UM, MANY OF THE, UM, OTHER ISSUES WITH THE ETHICS COMMISSION IS THAT THERE'S REALLY NO OPPORTUNITY FOR ANYTHING EXCEPT TO WRITE A LETTER.
YOU VIOLATED THE RULES OR A SLIGHTLY MEANER LETTER.
YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE THE OPTIONS.
THERE'S, UM, POSSIBILITY OF $50 FINE, BUT THAT REQUIRES CRIMINAL PROSECUTION.
AND A LOT OF THOSE RULES ON THE ETHICS COMMISSION NEED TO BE REWRITTEN.
AND I JUST THINK WE SHOULD LOOK AT WHAT WAS PROPOSED, I GUESS, IN 2018 AND CONSIDER DOING SOMETHING SIMILAR OR NOT.
I MEAN, AT LEAST CONSIDER IT COUNCIL MEMBER, OR SORRY, COMMISSIONER GREENBERG.
UM, TO MAKE SURE I'M CLEAR, YOU'RE JUST SUGGESTING THAT THE ETHICS COMMISSION SPECIFICALLY ISN'T COUNSEL APPOINTED, IS THAT CORRECT? WELL, THAT IT SPECIFICALLY NEEDS TO BE INDEPENDENT, SORT OF LIKE THE REDISTRICTING COMMISSION.
AND HOW ARE, HOW IS THE RE-DISTRICTING COMMISSION APPOINTED? I BELIEVE THE CLERK MAY BE ABLE TO ANSWER THAT IN MORE DETAIL.
UM, THAT IS MANAGED THROUGH THE AUDITOR'S OFFICE.
UM, I'M NOT VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE EXACT PROCESS, UM, BUT I KNOW IT'S DONE THROUGH, IT'S MANAGED THROUGH THEIR OFFICE.
I THINK WHAT I READ IS THAT THERE WAS, PEOPLE APPLY, COUNCIL MEMBERS CAN STRIKE TWO OF THE APPLICANTS, AND THEN THERE'S A POOL THAT'S CHOSEN RANDOMLY, AND THEN THERE'S
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ADDITIONAL POSITIONS THAT THE COMMISSION ITSELF, UM, SELECTS.BUT IT'S NOT, WHILE THE COUNCIL HAS SOME VETO POWER ON INDIVIDUALS, THEY DON'T SELECT THEM.
UH, COMMISSIONER WEBSTER ATTORNEY.
THANK YOU FOR THAT, UH, HONORARIUM THERE, BUT I AM ME MERE ATTORNEY.
UM, NO, I WAS JUST GONNA FILL IN BASICALLY, UH, COMMISSIONER GREENBERG WAS ESSENTIALLY CORRECT.
THERE IS AN APPLICATION PROCESS THERE, THERE'S TWO APPLICATION PROCESS.
THERE'S, FIRST OF ALL, THERE'S A PROCESS FOR A CERTAIN SMALL GROUP TO BE SELECTED, AND THEY HAVE TO MEET CERTAIN CRITERIA.
AND THEN THAT SMALLER GROUP THEN GO THROUGH THE APPLICANTS FOR THE COMMISSION AS A WHOLE, AND THEY BASICALLY CUT THAT GROUP DOWN TO, UH, A SMALLER NUMBER.
AND THEN THE COMMISSIONERS ARE SELECTED FROM THAT SMALLER MEMBER.
AND THEN AS, UH, COMMISSIONER GREENBERG MENTIONED, THEN THE, THE ICRC, THE INDEPENDENT CITIZENS REDISTRICTING COMMISSION ITSELF CHOOSES, UH, THE REINDER OF THEIR MEMBERSHIP.
UM, AND THERE ARE VERY STRICT CRITERIA ABOUT, UH, WHO CAN APPLY.
AND IF YOU DO APPLY, YOU ARE BANNED FROM, UH, RUNNING FOR CITY COUNCIL OR HAVING BASICALLY AN EXECUTIVE POSITION, UH, IN THE CITY FOR, UM, IT'S A NUMBER OF YEARS AFTER THAT.
SO, UH, THERE ARE VARIOUS, I WON'T GO INTO EVERY SINGLE DETAIL, BUT THERE IS A WHOLE PROCESS.
AND IN CASE YOU WANTED, UH, TO LOOK IT UP, IT'S IN OUR CHARTER ARTICLE, SORRY, ARTICLE TWO, SECTION THREE GOES THROUGH AND, AND TALKS ABOUT HOW, UH, HOW THAT PROCESS IS DONE.
UH, I BELIEVE, UH, COMMISSIONER MCGOVERN, UM, YES.
SO MY INITIAL QUESTION WAS GONNA BE ABOUT THE APPOINTMENT PROCESS.
WERE THERE OTHER FEATURES OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS FROM 2018 THAT YOU ALSO THOUGHT WERE USEFUL TO CONSIDER? UM, I WOULD HAVE TO SAY WE NEED TO LOOK INTO THAT, THAT I'M NOT THAT FAMILIAR, BUT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK SHOULD BE STUDIED.
AND I BELIEVE COMMISSIONER ORTEGA, YOU HAD SOMETHING THAT YOU WANTED TO NO.
WELL, I, I WILL SAY I'M INTERESTED IN THAT TOPIC.
I THINK, UH, IT'S NOT POSTED FOR ACTION TODAY, BUT THAT, YOU KNOW, CONFLICTS OF INTEREST ARE ANATHEMA TO ME.
SO IN GENERAL, THAT TOPIC SOUNDS INTERESTING.
SO WE CAN'T APPOINT A WORKING GROUP, WE HAVE TO PUT IT ON THE AGENDA FOR NEXT TIME TO I, I BELIEVE SO.
IS THAT CORRECT, MYRNA? THERE IS AN ITEM, A STANDING ITEM, UM, ITEM NUMBER SIX, WHERE YOU CAN PROPOSE TO CREATE A, UM, A WORKING GROUP.
BUT I BELIEVE THE RULE IS THAT TWO OR THREE OF THE MEMBER, THREE OF THE COMMISSION MEMBERS, UM, YES, IT'S, UH, I UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S GOTTA BE THREE, UH, THREE MEMBERS.
UM, AND A HISTORICAL ITEM OR A PUBLIC INTEREST ITEM IS MY UNDERSTANDING.
WELL, I WOULD MOVE TO CREATE A WORKING GROUP TO LOOK AT THE POSSIBILITY OF AN INDEPENDENT ETHICS COMMISSION RECOMMENDATION FROM THIS, FROM THIS COMMISSION.
SO WHEN WE GET THERE, YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND MAKE THAT MOTION LATER.
[3. Discussion and possible action on the Petition Process Working Groups initial recommendation report on revisions to the petition process. (Commissioners Cowles, Dwyer, and McGiverin) ]
OKAY.UM, SO THEN, UH, WE'LL MOVE ON TO THE NEXT, UH, DISCUSSION ITEM.
I BELIEVE THAT'S, UH, AN UPDATE FROM THE PETITION PROCESS WORKING GROUP FROM, UH, COMMISSIONERS COS DWYER AND MCGIVEN AND VAN MANON.
I ONLY SAY THAT BECAUSE THE, THE GROUP HAS ASKED ME TO PRESENT OUR IDEAS.
UM, ALSO REAL QUICK BEFORE I GET STARTED, UM, THE RECALL RECOMMENDATIONS IS, I GUESS LIKE A SUB WORKING GROUP OF THIS WORKING GROUP.
AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, ONE MEMBER, UM, AFTER CONSULTING WITH MIRNA, I'LL, THIS IS FOLDED INTO ITEM THREE, AND SO I'LL JUST MOVE INTO THAT AFTER WE DISCUSS.
UM, IF YOU'LL LOOK AT THE BACKUP MEMO THAT WE HAVE, UM, RELATED TO THE PETITION PROCESS, WORK GROUP RECOMMENDATIONS.
I KNOW IT'S, IT'S WORDY AND WE APOLOGIZE FOR THAT.
UM, I'M GONNA WALK US THROUGH IT.
I DON'T THINK IT'S THAT COMPLEX BECAUSE I THINK A LOT OF THESE THINGS CAN ACTUALLY BE ACHIEVED ADMINISTRATIVELY AS OPPOSED TO WITH A CHARTER.
UM, A CHARTER AMENDMENT I DID NOT PROVIDE, OR WE DID NOT PROVIDE, UM, UH, POTENTIAL BALLOT LANGUAGE YET BECAUSE WE WANTED TO HAVE A MORE FULL
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DISCUSSION.UM, WITH THAT SAID, I'LL, I'LL GET STARTED.
UM, JUST A, A BACKGROUND AND FEEL FREE TO JUMP IN FELLOW WORK GROUP MEMBERS.
UM, YOU KNOW, WE WANTED TO ESSENTIALLY KEEP, UM, THESE CITIZEN INITIATIVES AS A TOOL, BUT MAKE THEM MORE TRANSPARENT, UM, MAKE THEM MORE RELEVANT FOR AUSTIN IN 2023.
UM, AND SO WE HAVE A FEW RECOMMENDATIONS ON HERE, AND THEN THE LAST RECOMMENDATION IS REALLY MORE OF A DISCUSSION ITEM BECAUSE WE DIDN'T ARRIVE AT ONE RECOMMENDATION FOR THE THRESHOLD AT THIS POINT, BECAUSE WE THOUGHT THAT WE WOULD NEED GREATER DISCUSSION ON THAT.
THERE ARE A FEW IDEAS IN HERE.
THE FIRST TWO, WE DO HAVE SOME RECOMMENDATIONS ON.
PLEASE FEEL FREE TO STOP ME IF THERE ARE QUESTIONS.
SO OUR FIRST RECOMMENDATION, UM, AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE PAGE, I'LL TRY NOT TO READ THE WHOLE THING.
SIGNATURES ARE ONLY VALID IF SIGNED BY A QUALIFIED VOTER IN AUSTIN AND COLLECTED UNDER A NOTICE OF INTENT FILED WITH THE CLERK.
AGAIN, THIS IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT I'LL WALK THROUGH THE PROCESS.
I'LL WALK THROUGH THE PROCESS.
IT'S NOT AS COMPLICATED AS IT SOUNDS, BUT I MIGHT BE PRESENTING IT IN A MORE COMPLICATED BY THAN IT NEEDS TO BE.
UM, ESSENTIALLY A NOTICE OF INTENT WOULD NEED TO BE FILED WITH THE CLERK.
UM, BEFORE, BEFORE SIGNATURES ARE COLLECTED, IT WOULD NEED TO, UM, BE SIGNED BY FIVE QUALIFIED VOTERS, UM, WHO ARE RESIDENTS OF THE CITY OF AUSTIN, UM, AND QUALIFIED TO VOTE AND REGISTERED TO VOTE IN AUSTIN.
UM, THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE THE INFORMATION NECESSARY TO CONFIRM THAT THEY ARE QUALIFIED VOTERS.
UM, CONTACT INFORMATION FOR AT LEAST ONE OF THE MEMBERS OF THAT GROUP MUST BE PROVIDED, INCLUDING A PHONE NUMBER, AN EMAIL ADDRESS.
AND THE, THE PURPOSE OF THAT IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT INFORMATION IS AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC.
SO THERE'S, WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO ADD SOME MORE TRANSPARENCY IN HERE, AND WE'RE TRYING TO DO IT THROUGH THE, THE PROCESSES THAT, THAT WE'RE RECOMMENDING.
UM, OBVIOUSLY IT NEEDS TO INDICATE THE TYPE OF PETITION, UM, OF COURSE.
UM, AND WE HAVE PROPOSED ORDINANCE LANGUAGE FOR, YOU KNOW, FOR, FOR BALLOT INITIATIVES AND REFER, WELL, I GUESS NOT REALLY REFERENDUMS, BUT, UM, FOR BALLOT INITIATIVES.
AND THE PURPOSE IS TO, TO, LIKE, IT WOULDN'T HAVE TO BE FINAL, I GUESS.
THE POINT IS THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO PRESENT POSSIBLE ORDINANCE LANGUAGE, UM, THAT THEY SEEK TO ACHIEVE, UM, THE NOTICE OF INTENT.
WE NEED TO INCLUDE A VERY SHORT ONE SENTENCE SUMMARY OF THE INTENDED PURPOSE OF THE BALLOT INITIATIVE.
UM, AND AGAIN, THAT'S REALLY FOR TRANSPARENCY.
WHEN WE GET TO THE NEXT ITEM, YOU'LL SEE HOW SOME OF THESE TRANSPARENCY ITEMS, UM, OR SORRY, THE NEXT RECOMMENDATION, YOU'LL SEE HOW SOME OF THESE TRANSPARENCY ITEMS COME INTO PLAY.
UM, AND THEN I THINK, SO FROM OUR DISCUSSION AND COMMISSIONERS DWYER COLES AND, AND, UM, MCG, PLEASE, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO JUMP IN HERE.
UM, WE WOULD REQUIRE THAT, I SUPPOSE IF THEY HAVE A CAMPAIGN FINANCE FILER ID, UM, ON, YOU KNOW, ON THAT'S FILED, IF THEY'VE FILED A, A CAMPAIGN TREASURER REPORT WITH THE CITY OF, WITH THE CITY CLERK, UM, THOSE NUMBERS WOULD HAVE TO BE PROVIDED.
SO THE FILER ID WOULD HAVE TO BE PROVIDED SO PEOPLE CAN LOOK UP THEIR CAMPAIGN FINANCE REPORTS, BECAUSE PRESUMABLY IF THEY HAVE FILED A CTA, THEN THEY ARE THUS COMPLIANT WITH CAMPAIGN FINANCE RULES IN THE CITY OF AUSTIN.
UM, OPEN TO, I, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT CLEAR, UM, WHERE THE WORK GROUP LANDED ON WHETHER THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED.
SO THEY WOULD BE REQUIRED TO FILE A CTA, THEY WOULD BE REQUIRED TO, UM, TO, UH, COMPLY WITH THESE, THESE CAMPAIGN FINANCE RULES, OR WHETHER IT WAS, IF, UM, THEY HAD FILED A CTA, UM, WHETHER THEY WOULD BE, OBVIOUSLY IF THEY FILED A CTA, THEY WOULD NEED TO REPORT THAT ON THIS FORM.
UM, MAYBE ONE OF THE OTHER MEMBERS OF THE WORK GROUP CAN, CAN JUMP IN AND, AND REMIND US IF WE WERE, WE WERE PROPOSING TO REQUIRE THAT OR NOT, BECAUSE IT'S SORT OF A SUB RECOMMENDATION OF, OF THIS RECOMMENDATION.
SO WE DID NOT ARRIVE AT THE REQUIREMENT, RIGHT? MM-HMM,
I THINK THE CONCERN WAS MAYBE IT WAS COMPLETELY GRASSROOTS.
I THINK IT'S PRETTY TOUGH TO DO A PETITION WITHOUT ANY MONEY, RIGHT? UM,
IF YOU'RE RUNNING A PETITION, YOU'RE GONNA NEED TO COST YOUR MONEY CANVASERS.
UM, I THINK THAT'S OPEN FOR DISCUSSION.
LIKE, YOU KNOW, I, WE WANNA BE SENSITIVE TO THE FACT THAT, THAT THESE RULES WOULD BE AN ADDITIONAL BURDEN ON, ON CERTAIN GRASSROOTS GROUPS, BUT OFTEN THE GRASSROOTS GROUPS ARE, ARE ALREADY COMPLIANT WITH THIS, RIGHT? UM, BECAUSE OFTEN THEY ARE SPENDING MONEY AND THUS ON A BALLOT INITIATIVE, AND THUS THEY WOULD AT SOME POINT NEED TO FILE A CTA COMPLY WITH THOSE RULES.
UM, I, I THINK THAT'S A LITTLE OPEN TO DISCUSSION.
I, I DON'T THINK WE, I THINK THE WORK GROUP MEMBERS AGREE WE DON'T WANNA MAKE THIS SUCH AN ONEROUS PROCESS THAT IT'S INACCESSIBLE.
UM, BUT AGAIN, I THINK A LOT OF GROUPS ALREADY COMPLY WITH THAT.
SO THERE'S, THERE'S DEFINITELY ROOM FOR DISCUSSION ON THAT.
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WOULD ALSO NEED TO BE HA INCLUDE A SIGNED SO STATEMENT, UM, NOTARIZED OF COURSE, THAT AT LEAST ONE OF THE SIGNED BY AT LEAST ONE OF THE INDIVIDUALS LISTED, UM, THAT THE INFORMATION PROVIDED IS ACCURATE.YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT OF ENFORCEABILITY, BUT IF THAT INFORMATION IS SHOWN TO BE INACCURATE, IT COULD OPEN THE SIGNERS UP TO, UM, TO SOME, UH, REPERCUSSIONS FROM THAT.
UM, THIS WOULD PRESCRIBE, THIS RECOMMENDATION WOULD PRESCRIBE SOME ADDITIONAL WORK ON THE STAFF'S PART AND THE CLERK'S PART, BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE REQUIRED TO REVIEW THESE NOTICES OF INTENT JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE COMPLETE.
THEY WOULD ALSO THEN BE REQUIRED TO POST ON THEIR WEBSITE, YOU KNOW, A DEDICATED, HERE ARE OUR NOTICES OF INTENT PAGE, UM, POST THAT NOTICE OF INTENT, YOU KNOW, WITH ANY, I GUESS ANY PERSONAL INFORMATION REDACTED, UM, AND INCLUDE A SIMPLE URL.
WE'LL GET TO THE REASONS FOR THAT IN JUST A MINUTE.
UM, THEY WOULD HAVE TO VERIFY, OF COURSE, THAT THE, THE INDIVIDUALS PRESENTING THE NOTICE ARE QUALIFIED VOTERS IN AUSTIN.
UM, AND IMPORTANTLY, THEY WOULD NEED TO NOTE THE DATE OF THE NOTICE OF INTENT, BECAUSE I'M REALIZING NOW I DIDN'T GET TO ONE OF THE IMPORTANT POINTS OF THE NOTICE OF INTENT.
IT WOULD BE VALID FOR 90 DAYS WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF ONE EXTENSION.
UM, SO THAT'S ACTUALLY VERY SIMILAR TO THE, THE TIME LIMIT FOR COLLECTING SIGNATURES NOW.
IT WOULD ULTIMATELY BECOME SIX MONTHS.
UM, I, I THINK THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE WHILE THERE IS THE ABILITY TO EXTEND, THAT SORT OF BUILDS INTO THE PROCESS AND COMMUNICATION BOTH OF UPFRONT AND, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY IN THE MIDDLE OF COLLECTING SIGNATURES BETWEEN THE CIRCULATORS, MEANING THE, THE PEOPLE WHO INITIATED THE PETITION, UM, AND THE CLERK.
AND THUS, YOU KNOW, IF THERE ARE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE DATES, IF THERE ARE QUESTIONS ABOUT REQUIREMENTS, IT ALREADY BUILDS IN THAT LINE OF COMMUNICATION.
UM, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THESE, SOME OF THE PARTS OF THIS RECOMMENDATION ARE CERTAINLY GONNA REQUIRE, UM, SOME, UH, SOME NEW PROCESSES AND NEW, NEW THINGS FOR THE CLERK TO DO.
AND SO WE'RE SENSITIVE TO THAT AS WELL.
WE DON'T WANNA OVERBURDEN STAFF, STAFF AT CITY WORK VERY HARD, UM, AND WE DON'T WANT TO OVERBURDEN THEM, BUT WE THINK THAT THIS IS WORTH REQUIRING SOME EXTRA WORK ON THEIR PART.
UM, ADDITIONALLY, AND I THINK PERHAPS COMMISSIONER MCGIVEN CAN EXPLAIN THIS PART A LITTLE BIT BETTER.
UM, THE CLERK WOULD NEED TO PROVIDE A SAFE HARBOR DATE BY WHICH IT WOULD BE PREFERRED TO RETURN THE PETITION SIGNATURES IN TIME TO GET IT ON THE, THE ELECTION THAT THEY, THAT THE, UH, PROPOSERS PREFER, UM, SUCH THAT THE CLERK HAS THE TIME TO, AND THE ABILITY TO, AND THE RESOURCES TO, UH, BE ABLE TO VALIDATE ALL OF THE SIGNATURES ON THAT PETITION.
UM, AND COMMISSIONER MCGOVERN, DO YOU WANNA JUMP IN AND TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE SAFE HARBOR DATE? I, I'D BE HAPPY TO.
I'M NOT SURE I HAVE TOO MUCH TO ADD TO IT.
I MEAN, UM, JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I WAS EXPLAINING THAT CORRECTLY.
JUST, UH, HAVING RECEIVED PRIOR NOTICE THAT THESE PETITIONS WERE BEING CIRCULATED, JUST THE DATE CALCULATED BY WHICH, YOU KNOW, IF X NUMBER OF SIGNATURES ARE TURNED IN BY THAT DATE, THAT THE, THE CLERK'S OFFICE IS CONFI CONFIDENT THAT THEY COULD ALL BE REVIEWED, CERTIFIED, ET CETERA, IN TIME FOR THE ELECTION FOR WHICH IT'S ATTENDED.
AND I DON'T, BY LAW, I DON'T THINK I NEED TO GO BACK AND LOOK, BUT MY RECOLLECTION IS NOT THINKING THAT THE CITY COULD GIVE LIKE AN AFFIRMATIVE CUTOFF DATE.
AND SO PEOPLE COULD IN THEORY, STILL TURN IT IN AFTER THAT WITH THE PERIL THAT THEY MIGHT NOT BE CERTIFIED IN TIME, AND THEY MIGHT BE SHUNTED TO WHENEVER THE NEXT ELECTION FOR THAT THING IS GOING TO BE.
UH, YEAH, AGAIN, NOT A REQUIREMENT, BUT I THINK THAT, THAT THAT LINE OF COMMUNICATION WILL FACILITATE BOTH THE CLERK'S WORK AND FACIL FACILITATE THE WORK OF THE, THE PETITION, UM, INITIATORS, BECAUSE THEN THERE WILL BE COMMUNICATION ABOUT WHAT THAT DATE NEEDS TO BE TO GET THE INFORMATION TO THE CLERK SO THE CLERK HAS ENOUGH TIME TO, TO TAKE ACTION AFTER THAT.
UM, THE CLERK WOULD ALSO NEED TO ASSIGN A, A NUMBER OR SHORT IDENTIFIER FOR THE NOTICE OF INTENT, JUST TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC TO FIND.
UM, AND I, I DO THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY OPEN TO DISCUSSION ON ANY OF THESE RECOMMENDATIONS, BUT I THINK IN THIS CASE, THERE, THERE ARE PARTS OF IT THAT CAN CERTAINLY BE DONE ADMINISTRATIVELY OR THROUGH COUNSEL ACTION, AND DON'T NECESSARILY NEED TO GO ON THE BALLOT.
UM, I DON'T THINK OUR GOAL HERE IS TO SEND, YOU KNOW, 30 ITEMS TO COUNSEL THAT WE'RE ASKING THEM TO PUT ON THE BALLOT, UM, AT WHICH TIME PERHAPS WE WOULD HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO, UM, AFTER WE GET TO Z ON THE BALLOT.
UM, BUT YEAH, I'M, I'M HAPPY TO KEEP GOING, OR IF THERE ARE QUESTIONS OR DISCUSSIONS ON THE FIRST RECOMMENDATION, WE CAN PAUSE.
LOOKS LIKE I'M GONNA KEEP GOING.
SO SECOND, THE SECOND RECOMMENDATION IS A STANDARDIZED PETITION FORM INCLUDES CONTACT INFORMATION FOR THE, THE INITIATORS OF THAT PETITION.
THAT'S REALLY THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THAT.
UM, WE WOULD REQUIRE THAT, THAT THE PHONE NUMBER AND EMAIL THAT THEY PROVIDE
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ON THAT NOTICE OF INTENT BE PRINTED ON THE, THE, UM, EACH PAGE OF THE, THE PETITION FORM, UM, AS WELL AS THE URL FOR WHERE THE CLERK WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, HOUSING ALL OF THESE, THESE ON THE WEBSITE AND IDEALLY A QR CODE AS WELL.UM, JUST TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC TO, TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT WHO THESE PEOPLE ARE, WHAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR.
UM, WE WOULD ALSO ASK THAT THAT ONE, THAT SHORT ONE SENTENCE STATEMENT ABOUT THE INTENDED PURPOSE OF THE PETITION BE PRINTED ON THERE AS WELL.
UM, AND BY PRINTED, I MEAN, THERE COULD BE SPACES FOR THAT.
THEY COULD WRITE IT IN LEGIBLY, UM, OR IT COULD BE FILLED IN, UM, AND PRINTED, YOU KNOW, AS A PDF.
UM, AGAIN, OUR GOAL WITH THIS IS REALLY A, TO ENCOURAGE, ENCOURAGE TRANSPARENCY, MAKE SURE THAT THE VOTERS WHO ARE SIGNING THE PETITION UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY'RE SIGNING, THAT SHOULD THEY HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PETITION, THEY HAVE A WAY TO GET THAT INFORMATION RIGHT.
UM, I THINK THAT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE THESE PROCESSES NEED TO BE ACCESSIBLE TO THE PUBLIC.
THESE PROCESSES NEED TO BE AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC.
AND WHEN THERE'S NOT TRANSPARENCY, WHEN IT'S NOT CLEAR WHO IS INITIATING THE PETITION, IT'S NOT CLEAR WHAT THE PETITION DOES.
I THINK THAT MAKES THE, THE PROCESS, IT IN A WAY, IT KIND OF TAINTS THE PROCESS AND IT MAKES IT HARDER FOR FUTURE PETITIONS TO, TO BE COMPLETED BECAUSE THEN PEOPLE HEAR ABOUT THIS BAD PETITION THAT POTENTIALLY HAD, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY WAS PRESENTED, UM, UNDER FALSE PRETENSES, WHICH I, I BELIEVE WE HAVE SEEN.
I MEAN, THERE'S CERTAINLY, WE CAN DISCUSS THAT, BUT I, I BELIEVE WE HAVE SEEN THAT.
UM, IT GIVES, AGAIN, IT GIVES POWER TO THE VOTERS WHO ARE SIGNING IT AS WELL TO UNDERSTAND THAT A LITTLE BIT BETTER AND TO CONTACT SOMEONE IF THEY HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT STANDARD.
THE, THE OTHER THINGS ON THE STANDARDIZED PETITION FORM, UM, AGAIN, SPACE TO WRITE THE TYPE OF PETITION, UM, SPACE TO WRITE THE CONTACT INFORMATION FROM THE NOTICE OF INTENT.
UM, ALSO THE CONTACT INFORMATION FOR THE CITY CLERK'S OFFICE, IF THEY HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY REMOVING THEIR SIGNATURE AND WHAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO DO FOR THAT.
UM, AND POTENTIALLY QUESTIONS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE PROCESS AND EVERYTHING LIKE THAT.
UM, AND OF COURSE THAT COULD BE, YOU KNOW, THE GENERAL INFORMATION LINE, I SUPPOSE FOR THE, FOR THE CLERK'S OFFICE.
UM, THEY WOULD NEED THE, AGAIN, THE URL AND, AND A QR CODE FOR THE, THE WEBSITE WHERE THEY COULD, WHERE SOMEONE COULD FIND THAT NOTICE OF INTENT AS WELL AS THAT IDENTIFIER FOR THE NOTICE OF INTENT, AS WELL AS THE, THE ONE SHORT SENTENCE.
UM, TO SUMMARIZE THE INTENT OF THE PETITION, UM, SPACE FOR SIGNERS TO PROVIDE ALL OF THIS INFORMATION.
UM, THESE, AND THAT, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE PRETTY STANDARD FOR, YOU KNOW, VALIDATING THAT SOMEONE IS A QUALIFIED VOTER.
IN FACT, ALL OF THESE REQUIREMENTS ABOUT WHAT EQUALS OF ALL'S SIGNATURE ARE ACTUALLY ALREADY IN CHARTER.
UM, AND SO WE WOULDN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO PROVIDE A CHARTER AMENDMENT IN ORDER TO REQUIRE THAT.
UM, WE WOULD LOVE A SPANISH TRANSLATION OF THE INFORMATION RIGHT ON THE PETITION.
UM, SO AS OPPOSED TO A SEPARATE FORM, YOU KNOW, I, I TRIED, AS THE WORK GROUP WILL ATTEST, I TRIED TO, TO SORT OF MOCK UP WHAT THIS WOULD LOOK LIKE, AND I HAD NO ROOM TO INCLUDE A SPANISH TRANSLATION.
SO I VERY MUCH RESPECT THE PEOPLE THAT DESIGN THESE FORMS, BECAUSE I'VE SEEN IT DONE BEFORE
UM, AND, YOU KNOW, IT CAN BE DONE, IT'S GONNA TAKE SOME WORK TO GET IT ON THERE.
UM, BUT ALSO, YOU KNOW, AS THE CITY OFTEN DOES MAKE THAT AVAILABLE IN OTHER LANGUAGES THAT ARE COMMONLY SPOKEN IN AUSTIN, IF REQUESTED, AND THE CLERK COULD, COULD HOUSE THOSE FILES.
UM, AGAIN, SPACE TO WRITE THE ID NUMBER OF THE NOTE NOTICE OF INTENT.
UM, I ALSO THINK IT'S INCREDIBLY, OR WE ALSO THINK IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS A CIRCULATOR AFFIDAVIT AGAIN, BY CIRCULATOR HERE.
I DON'T, I, I MEAN THE, THE PEOPLE INITIATING THE PETITION, UM, SOMEONE'S GOTTA BE RESPONSIBLE AND ACCOUNTABLE FOR THOSE SIGNATURES.
UM, AND YOU KNOW, IT, IT SHOULD HOPEFULLY THIS, IT WOULD NEVER COME TO THIS, BUT SHOULD, UM, SHOULD SOMEBODY SUBMIT 20,000 FAKE NAMES, RIGHT? AND FAKE SIGNATURES, SOMEONE'S GOTTA BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THAT BECAUSE, UM, THEY ARE THEN, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT IN GOOD FAITH.
AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S ESSENTIALLY A FORM OF ABUSE OF THE PROCESS.
AND SO I THINK THAT THAT'S IMPORTANT.
COMMISSIONER, UM, CAROLINE HAS A QUESTION.
COMMISSIONER, COMMISSIONER AND MANNING.
WELL, I HAVE A, I HAVE A, A PIECE OF INFORMATION WHICH, AND, AND I'M, IT SOUNDS AS THOUGH YOU'VE ALREADY KIND OF RECOGNIZED WHAT IS IN THE CURRENT CHARTER, BUT THE CURRENT CHARTER HAS THIS, I WOULD SAY SLIGHTLY ODDLY WORDED REQUIREMENT FOR AN AFFIDAVIT.
SO IT SAYS RIGHT NOW THAT, UM, OH, SORRY, I CLICKED OFF OF THE SECTION I WAS LOOKING AT.
SO RIGHT NOW IT SAYS THAT, UM, ONE OF THE SIGNERS OF EACH PETITION PAPER SHALL MAKE AN AFFIDAVIT THAT THE STATEMENTS THEREIN MADE ARE TRUE.
I'VE NEVER UNDERSTOOD WHY ONE OF THE SIGNERS, RIGHT, WHICH IS
[00:30:01]
VOTERS.SO I THINK YOU COULD MAKE AN EASY CHANGE TO SAY ONE OF THE CIRCULATORS OF THE PETITION, UH, ON THE, YOU KNOW, SHALL MAKE AN AFFIDAVIT, THE STATEMENTS THERE.
AND SO I THINK THAT THAT COULD, SO WE ALREADY DO HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT REQUIREMENT, BUT THIS WOULD, THAT CHANGING THAT WORD FROM SIGNERS TO CIRCULATORS WOULD MAKE SURE THAT THE ONUS FALLS ON TO ME THE CORRECT PEOPLE, WHICH, AS YOU SAID, THE PEOPLE ARE OUT THERE CIRCULATING IT AND ASKING VOTERS TO SIGN IT.
MM-HMM,
SO SINCE IT'S THE SAME ITEM, I'M GONNA, YOU KNOW, SAME ITEM OUR, ON OUR AGENDA.
I'M GONNA GO AHEAD AND ASK THE QUESTION, BUT, UM, DOES EVERY, ALL FOUR TYPES OF PETITIONS FOR CITIZEN INITIATIVES, DO THEY REQUIRE THAT AFFIDAVIT? BECAUSE I, I FEEL LIKE YOU WERE SAYING THAT ONE DOESN'T, IS IT RECALLS OR IS IT A DIFFERENT KIND? YEAH, NO, NONE OF THEM DO EXCEPT CALLS.
UH, THE ONLY OTHER, THE ONLY OTHER TYPE OF PETITIONS THAT REQUIRE THE AFFIDAVIT ARE CANDIDATE PETITIONS.
SO IF THEY'RE DOING A PETITION IN LIEU OF FILING FEE THAT HAVE TO, HAS TO HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT OR CIRCULATOR.
BUT FOR THESE, UH, INITIATIVE OR, YOU KNOW, PROPOSITION ELECTIONS, IT'S ONLY THE RECALL THAT REQUIRES THE AFFIDAVIT.
UM, SO YEAH, LET'S DO IT FOR THE OTHER THREE AS OUR RECOMMENDATION.
THE, I THINK THAT, THAT, THAT SUMS UP MY SUMMARY OF OUR RECOMMENDATION, AT LEAST COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, I'M NOT SURE WE WERE ALL IN AGREEMENT.
I CERTAINLY AM NOT WITH ADDING THAT REQUIREMENT TO THE OTHER TYPES OF PETITIONS, WHICH WILL HAVE WAY MORE SIGNATURES THAN SOMETHING THAT'S JUST DISTRICT-WIDE.
RIGHT NOW, IT'S ONLY REQUIRED ON THOSE DISTRICT-WIDE ONES.
AND I ALSO THINK IT'S UNREASONABLE TO MAKE SOMEBODY BASICALLY SWEAR THAT THE SIGNATURES ARE VALID.
I MEAN, THAT'S THE CLERK'S JOB TO CHECK IF THEY'RE VALID.
UM, YOU COLLECT THE SIGNATURES, YOU OF COURSE ASK IF THEY'RE REGISTERED TO VOTE IN THE DISTRICT PETITIONS.
YOU ASK, DO YOU LIVE IN DISTRICT X? PEOPLE OFTEN DON'T KNOW.
UM, AND THEN IT HAS TO BE, THAT'S WHY MANY SIGNATURES AREN'T VALID.
BUT TO SAY THAT THE PERSON COLLECTING THE SIGNATURES HAS TO SIGN SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, CERTIFYING THAT THEY'RE VALID, I THINK IS A UNDUE BURDEN.
CAN I, SORRY IF OTHER PEOPLE ON THAT, I, I HAVE A QUESTION.
DID, ARE THESE, ARE THESE FORMS TEMPLATES TAKEN FROM, CAN YOU TURN ON YOUR MIC PLEASE? SORRY.
ARE THESE FORMS OR TEMPLATES TAKEN FROM, UH, OTHER CITIES EXAMPLES OR SOME OTHER KIND OF STANDARDIZED THING THAT, UH, WE COULD DRAW FROM THEIR EXPERIENCE? SURE.
AND I SHOULD HAVE PROBABLY BROUGHT ONE OF MY VISUAL AIDS THAT THE WORK GROUP HAS SEEN.
UM, BASICALLY MOST OF THE REQUIREMENTS OF THIS, ASIDE FROM THE CONTACT INFORMATION COME FROM, UM, PETITIONS TO, FOR CANDIDATES IF THEY'RE FILING, UM, PUT SIGNATURES IN LIEU OF A FILING FEE.
AND SO THAT'S SORT OF HOW I WAS LOOKING AT THIS.
THAT'S, THAT'S PROBABLY THE ONE I'M A LITTLE I'M MOST FAMILIAR WITH.
BUT, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY OPEN TO SUGGESTIONS.
UM, IF YOU HAD, DO YOU HAVE NO, NO, I WAS NOW, I WAS THEN GONNA FOLLOW UP IF THAT'S THE CASE.
IS THERE A WAY TO MITIGATE THE CONCERN THAT COMMISSIONER GREENBERG HAS ABOUT, 'CAUSE IT, YOU KNOW, BY THEIR NATURE ARE DIFFERENT INITIATIVE PETITIONS ARE DIFFERENT THAN A CANDIDATE, UH, DECLARATION.
UM, THE ISSUE THAT SHE RAISES, IT SEEMS POTENTIALLY, AND COMMISSIONER GREENBERGER, I'M SORRY THAT THERE WAS THAT MISUNDERSTANDING.
UM, I, I GUESS I DIDN'T HAVE THAT IN MY NOTES THAT THERE WAS DISAGREEMENT ON THAT.
UM, YOU KNOW, I, I THINK POTENTIALLY THE, THE CIRCULATOR AFFIDAVIT, YOU KNOW, I, IT CAROLINE'S PROBABLY THE BEST PERSON TO ANSWER THIS, BUT POTENTIALLY IT COULD BE WORDED SUCH THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, I SWEAR THAT IN GOOD FAITH WE ATTEMPTED TO COLLECT, UM, VALID SIGNATURES.
UM, I WOULD ALSO ARGUE THOUGH THAT ANY, ANY CAMPAIGN THAT'S, YOU KNOW, HAS ENOUGH RESOURCES TO HIRE CANVASSERS AND TO BE RUN AS, AS SORT OF A PROFESSIONAL CAMPAIGN, THEY ABSOLUTELY SHOULD BE VALIDATING THOSE SIGNATURES.
SO THEY'RE NOT SENDING THE CLERK A BUNCH OF BAD SIGNATURES.
AND TYPICALLY THEY WILL, I DON'T KNOW SO MUCH ABOUT THE, THE ONES THAT ARE NOT DONE THROUGH, YOU KNOW, A LARGER GROUP.
AND SO MAYBE THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT CAN PROVIDE INSIGHT ON THAT.
UM, BUT I DO FEEL LIKE IT SHOULD BE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE CIRCULATORS TO GO THROUGH THOSE SIGNATURES AND MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE VALID SIGNATURES IF FOR NO OTHER REASON.
SO THE CIRCULATORS KNOW THAT THEY'RE SUBMITTING VALID SIGNATURES AND THEY DO NOT HAVE TO WORRY THAT, YOU KNOW, THE CLERK IS GONNA FIND THAT HALF THE SIGNATURES THEY'VE SUBMITTED ARE, ARE IN INVALID.
UM, I THINK THAT WAS ONE OF THE, THE ITEMS THAT WE GOT TO LATER IN THAT MEETING.
[00:35:03]
THE THOUGHT THAT I HAD HAD, YOU KNOW, ON ONE HAND, UM, I DON'T EVEN, EVEN WITH A PAID CAMPAIGN, I MEAN, I'VE, I'VE VOLUNTEERED TO GO OUT AND GET SIGNATURES BEFORE THEY TEND TO, AT LEAST THE POPULAR ONES TEND TO HAVE A NUMBER OF VOLUNTEERS INVOLVED AS WELL.UM, I THINK MY, MY THOUGHTS ABOUT HOW TO ADDRESS THOSE CONCERNS, ONE IS, YOU KNOW, IN THE CIVIL PRACTICE AND REMEDIES CODE, THERE'S A PROVISION THAT PROVIDES FOR UNSWORN DECLARATIONS AND CIVIL MATTERS FOR VIRTUALLY EVERYTHING, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF LIKE REAL ESTATE DEEDS.
I THINK THAT THAT WOULD MAKE A WORLD OF SENSE BECAUSE THE PENALTIES FOR PERJURY IS STILL ATTACHED, AND THAT WAY YOU DON'T HAVE TO INTEGRATE A NOTARY INTO THE WHOLE THING.
UM, WHICH I MEAN, I THINK IN A VOLUNTEER BASED, LIKE, LIKE DOOR KNOCKING A DAY, LIKE HAVING TO NOTARIZE THINGS AND GET YOUR NOTARY BOOK OUT AND ALL THAT STUFF IS GONNA BE AN IMPEDIMENT.
UM,
IT IS, I THINK AS IT'S WORDED FOR CANDIDATES MILDLY INSANE
ONE IS, I THINK THE MORE IMPORTANT ONE FOR THE INDIVIDUAL SHEETS, WHICH WOULD BE SOME STATEMENT SAYING, I SAW A PERSON SIGN THIS.
YOU KNOW, I, I DID NOT FILL THESE NAMES OUT FROM THE PHONE BOOK.
LIKE, SOME, SOME HUMAN BEING SIGNED THIS.
AND I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY THE MORE IMPORTANT ONE.
AND THEN CAROLINE HAS HER HAND UP FOR AFTER, LET, LET ME JUST, I'M JUST NOTING THAT, UM, TWO, I THINK IT'S COMPLETELY VALID OR WOULD BE COMPLETELY VALID TO ASK A CAMPAIGN TO CERTIFY SIGNATURES NOW THAT THAT IS GONNA BE, I THINK MORE, REQUIRE MORE RESOURCES ON THEIR PARTS.
THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, I THINK THAT WARRANTS MORE DISCUSSION, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S INVALID.
I DON'T THINK IT'S REASONABLE THOUGH, LIKE THE STATE LEVEL PETITION IS WORDED TO ASSUME THAT THE PERSON WHO IS COLLECTING THEM IS ALSO THE PERSON CERTIFYING THEM, BECAUSE THAT WOULD FUNCTIONALLY LIMIT THAT ROLE TO SOMEBODY WHO IS A PAID PERSON.
UM, AND I, I, I JUST, I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S THE INTENT, NOR IS IT NECESSARY TO ACHIEVE THAT GOAL.
UM, SO THOSE WERE MY THOUGHTS AND I DON'T, AND I THINK MAYBE WE HAVE A MISCOMMUNICATION ABOUT WHO IS THE CIRCULATOR.
I MEAN, I THINK OF THE CIRCULATOR IS THE PERSON WITH THE CLIPBOARD.
AND I DON'T THINK THAT PERSON WITH THE CLIPBOARD IS ALSO GOING BACK TO THE OFFICE TO CHECK THAT THESE ARE REALLY VALID SIGNATURES, BUT MAYBE, UH, TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, THESE ARE SIGNATURES OF REGISTERED, UM, VOTERS IN DISTRICT, WHATEVER.
COULD I RESPOND TO THAT SUPER QUICK? UM, I, I THINK SO.
I, I WENT BACK AFTER OUR DISCUSSION AND AGAIN, APOLOGIES.
I THOUGHT THAT FOR SOME REASON MY NOTES HAD THIS AS A SETTLED ITEM AND, AND CLEARLY THAT WAST CORRECT.
UM, SO I, I WENT BACK AND, AND TRIED TO DEFINE WHAT CIRCULATOR MEANS FOR THE PURPOSES OF CANDIDATES, RIGHT? UM, AND IN THAT CASE, IT'S, IT'S THE CANDIDATE, IT'S THE PERSON INITIATING THAT PETITION.
SO FOR, FOR THAT PURPOSE, THAT'S WHAT CIRCULATOR MEANS TO, TO COMMISSIONER MCGOVERN'S POINT, THEN THAT'S VERY CONFUSING BECAUSE THAT AFFIDAVIT DOES SAY EYEWITNESS, EACH SIGNATURE BEING COLLECTED, OR I PERSONALLY COLLECTED LEGAL HAS TO SAY SHE'S, SHE'S BEEN TRYING TO TELL US SOMETHING FOR A WHILE.
SORRY, WAS THAT DIRECTED AT ME? YES.
SO CHAIR, UH, WITH YOUR PERMISSION, I JUST WANTED TO OFFER THAT, UM, THE AFFIDAVIT OF CIRCULATOR IS BY THE INDIVIDUAL WITH THE CLIPBOARD AND UNDER THE ELECTION CODE, I'M, I DON'T NEED TO, I'M NOT GONNA GO INTO EVERY SINGLE THING, BUT IN SECTION 1 41 0.065 OF THE ELECTION CODE IS, IS WHERE IT LAYS OUT THE AFFIDAVIT OF CIRCULATOR AND WHAT THEY'RE REQUIRED TO BASICALLY SWEAR TO, AND BRIEFLY, THEY HAVE TO STATE THAT THEY POINTED OUT AND READ TO EACH SIGNER BEFORE THE PETITION WAS SIGNED.
EACH STATEMENT PERTAINING TO THE SIGNER THAT APPEARS ON THE PETITION, THEY WITNESSED EACH SIGNATURE, THEY'RE VERIFIED, EACH SIGNATURE'S REGISTRATION STATUS AND BELIEVES IN THAT EACH SIGNATURE IS GENUINE AND THE CORRESPONDING INFORMATION IS CORRECT.
SO THAT, THAT'S WHAT AN AFFIDAVIT OF CIRCULATED FOR CANDIDATE PETITIONS ARE.
AND SO YOU CAN TAKE THAT AND DO THAT SAME THING, GET RID OF SOME OF THOSE REQUIREMENTS.
BUT I JUST WANNA SAY THERE IS A FRAMEWORK THERE THAT YOU COULD MAYBE, UH, LOOK AT AND, AND, AND, YOU KNOW, SEE IF YOU WANNA COPY THAT OR DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
HOW DO THEY VERIFY REGISTRATION STATUS? I MEAN, I DON'T KEEP MY CARD ANYWHERE.
UH, THEY, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S USUALLY DONE AFTER THE FACT.
SO THEY GET A LIST OF REGISTERED VOTERS
[00:40:01]
FROM THE, UH, UH, THE VOTER REGISTRAR'S OFFICE OR FROM THE SECRETARY STATE'S OFFICE, AND THEY GO THROUGH AND THEY LOOK, UM, I DON'T KNOW THAT ALL OF THE, UH, PETITION GROUPS ACTUALLY DO THAT, GIVEN HOW MANY SIGNATURES END UP BEING PROBLEMATIC.NOT LIKE IT'S THAT MANY, BUT THERE ALWAYS ARE SOME.
SO, I MEAN, TECHNICALLY THAT'S HOW THEY WOULD DO IT.
THEY WOULD USUALLY NOT, NOT CHECK ON THE SPOT, BUT THEN GO BACK TO A LIST OF REGISTERED VOTERS AND TRY TO VERIFY THAT WAY.
AND VERY OFTEN, UM, AS, AS WAS MENTIONED A MOMENT AGO, THERE ARE USUALLY MANY, MANY VOLUNTEERS OR PAID INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE OUT CIRCULATING THE AFFIDAVIT AND THEY, THEY DO AN AFFIDAVIT FOR THE PAGES THAT THEY CIRCULATED BASICALLY.
SO THEY ARE, YOU KNOW, THEY WOULD HOPEFULLY NOT HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, CHECK THE REGISTRATION OF THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE.
BUT JUST A SUBGROUP, IF I CAN JUMP IN SUPER QUICK.
UM, SO THE REQUIREMENTS BOTH CURRENTLY IN, UM, IN THE CHARTER FOR WHAT HAS TO BE PROVIDED FOR THE SIGNERS, IT'S IT'S NAME, IT'S OBVIOUSLY DATE SIGNED, OBVIOUSLY SIGNATURE, UM, AS WELL AS THEIR RESIDENCE ADDRESS, UM, AND DATE OF BIRTH OR THEIR, THEIR VU ID, THEIR VALID.
UM, AND SO THAT'S ESSENTIALLY SUFFICIENT TO CHECK THE VOTER REGISTRATION FOR THAT PERSON.
UM, I, YOU KNOW, HEARING THE DISCUSSION ONCE AGAIN, SO SORRY THAT I, I THOUGHT THAT WAS A SETTLED ITEM.
AND SO I'M GLAD WE'RE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION, UM, HEARING THE DISCUSSION, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S VALID.
I THINK THAT, THAT MY POINT IN PROPOSING THAT FOR THE WORK GROUP, UM, IS THAT THERE SHOULD BE SOME ACCOUNTABILITY FOR, YOU KNOW, FOR ATTESTING OR, OR, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW, PERHAPS IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, AS COMPLICATED AS A CIRCULATOR AFFIDAVIT, BUT THERE HAS TO BE SOME RESPONSIBILITY FOR, UM, FOR THE, THOSE PETITIONS TO BE SUBMITTED IN GOOD FAITH, UM, WITH WHAT THEY BELIEVE ARE VALID SIGNATURES, PERHAPS THAT IT COULD BE, UM, SORT OF SOLVED BY THE NOTICE OF INTENT AS WELL.
IT COULD BE SORT OF, YOU KNOW, A NOTICE OF INTENT THAT INCLUDES AN AFFIDAVIT THAT I, I, IN GOOD FAITH ATTEMPT TO COLLECT THESE SIGNATURES AND ATTEMPT TO COLLECT ONLY VALID SIGNATURES.
I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW, BUT MORE DISCUSSION, PLEASE.
UM, I MEAN, I FEEL LIKE WE NEED TO HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE.
IT, IT'S A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF STAFF TIME.
IT'S A TREMENDOUS, I MEAN, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY'RE BEING PAID POSITIONS COLLECTING THESE SIGNATURES.
UM, I JUST FEEL LIKE IN THE ESSENCE OF TRANSPARENCY, LIKE WE, WE NEED TO HAVE SOME AMOUNT OF ACCOUNTABILITY.
IT'S NOT GONNA STOP EVERYONE FROM, YOU KNOW, DOING SOMETHING OUT OF CHARACTER FROM WHAT THEY SHOULD BE DOING, BUT I THINK IT'LL AT LEAST MAKE 'EM STOP AND PAUSE AND, YOU KNOW, HAVE SOME SORT OF PROCESS IN PLACE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PETITION SIGNATURES ARE VALID.
I, I PERSONALLY DON'T THINK THAT'S TOO MUCH TO ASK AT ALL.
ANY OTHER COMMENT? YES, I HAD A QUICK QUESTION.
UM, AND THIS MAY BE A, A QUESTION FOR CAROLINE.
I'M CURIOUS, UM, IN THE LANGUAGE FROM THE ELECTION CODE THAT SETS OUT THOSE REQUIREMENTS, ONE OF WHICH IS THAT THE PERSON, THE AFFIANT IS VERIFIED THAT PERSON WAS A QUALIFIED VOTER, DOES IT DEFINE WHAT THE VERIFICATION PROCESS IS? BECAUSE IF IT'S, IF THAT'S, IF IT'S JUST THAT WORD, THEN I FEEL LIKE A PERSON WHO'S CIRCULATING PETITIONS COULD VALIDLY JUST SAY, I DID THAT BY WHEN I YEAH.
ARE YOU SURE YOU'RE A VOTER IN AUSTIN? OKAY, GOOD.
LIKE, I WAS JUST CURIOUS IF WE WERE SITTING HERE ASSUMING THAT THE WORD VERIFICATION MEANT GOING THROUGH THE ENTIRE WEBSITE DEBACLE, OR IF IT JUST MIGHT BE MORE AMBIGUOUS THAN THAT.
UH, YEAH, THAT'S ACTUALLY A VERY GOOD POINT.
THEY COULD BE JUST SAYING, ARE YOU REGISTERED? ARE YOU REGISTERED THIS ADDRESS? YOU KNOW, SO THEY DEFINITELY COULD BE ASKING THOSE QUESTIONS ON THE SPOT.
AND I AGREE THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD COMPLY WITH, THEY WOULD BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE AFFIDAVIT.
LIKE I SAID, I THINK, UH, SOME GROUPS DO GO TO THE EXTENT OF CHECKING THE VOTER RE REGISTRATION RECORDS, BUT YEAH, IT IS NOT DEFINED.
AND SO I, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.
THAT WOULD BE A, A SUFFICIENT METHOD OF VERIFICATION.
SHOULD I MOVE ON OR MORE DISCUSSION? I THINK COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, DID YOU HAVE YOUR, YOUR HAND UP A, A MINUTE AGO? OKAY, SORRY.
ALRIGHT, WELL IF EVERYONE WANTS TO WRITE A NOTE ON THEIR, THEIR MEMO THAT THAT IS UNDECIDED, MORE DISCUSSION NEEDED.
UM, BUT THIS IS WHY WE'RE PRESENTING IT TO THE, THE FULL COMMISSION SO THAT DISCUSSION CAN HAPPEN.
UM, ALRIGHT, SO THE THIRD RECOMMENDATION IS THE ONE EVERYBODY'S LOOKING FOR, UM, WHICH IS UPDATES TO THE NUMBER OF REQUIRED PETITION SIGNATURES FOR BALLOT FOR THESE THREE TYPES OF, UM, OF INITIATIVES.
UM, WE HAVE NOT ARRIVED AT A FINAL CONCLUSION ON THAT.
WE WANTED TO BRING THAT TO THE FULL COMMISSION FOR MORE
[00:45:01]
DISCUSSION.UM, YOU KNOW, FROM MY OPINION, I THINK THERE ARE, THERE ARE REASONABLE JUSTIFICATIONS FOR KEEPING THE, THE, UM, THRESHOLD WHERE IT IS, THERE ARE REASONABLE JUSTIFICATIONS FOR RAISING THE THRESHOLD.
UM, AND SO EVEN PERSONALLY, I'M NOT, NOT NECESSARILY DECIDED ON THAT.
IN HERE WE INCLUDED THREE POTENTIAL OPTIONS, BUT OBVIOUSLY THERE MAY BE MORE OPTIONS, UM, THAT WE, THAT WE CAN DISCUSS THAT FIRST OPTION, KEEP THE SIGNATURE THRESHOLD AT 20,000, UM, AND REQUIRE THE ITEMS TO ONLY BE ON THE BALLOT NOVEMBER ELECTIONS AND EVEN NUMBER OF YEARS WHEN POSSIBLE.
OBVIOUSLY, THAT, THAT WORK GOES OVER A LITTLE INTO THE ITEM FOUR, UM, FROM THE, THE MECHANICS WORK GROUP.
UM, THE SECOND OPTION, KEEP THE THRESHOLD AT 20,000 SIGNATURES FOR THE, THOSE NOVEMBER ITEMS. AND IF YOU, IF YOU'RE ABLE TO COLLECT MORE THAN 50,000 BECAUSE THE ISSUE IS SO URGENT, THEN THAT CAN GO ON THE NEXT ELECTION.
I, I THINK THAT THAT SORT OF, I I THINK THERE'S, IF YOU COLLECT ENOUGH SIGNATURES, I THINK THAT THAT SORT OF JUSTIFIES THE FACT THAT IT'S AN URGENT ITEM THAT WOULD THEN BE, UM, IT WOULD BE JUSTIFYING THE RESOURCES SPENT ON, ON, YOU KNOW, A MAY ELECTION OR AN OFF YEAR ELECTION.
UM, ONE THING TO KEEP IN MIND, I SUPPOSE FOR THAT ONE IS THAT OF COURSE, IF IT'S NOT ON A EVEN NUMBERED, UH, NOVEMBER ELECTION, POTENTIALLY THE ELECTORATE IS GONNA BE LESS REPRESENTATIVE OF THE CITY OF AUSTIN.
UM, AND THEN THE, THE FINAL, UM, POTENTIAL RECOMMENDATION IS RATHER THAN 20,000 RATHER THAN A FLAT 20,000, UM, TIE IT TO A PERCENTAGE.
AND SO IT GROWS WITH THE NUMBER OF QUALIFIED VOTERS IN THE CITY.
AND THE, THE PROPOSAL THAT WE HAVE IS 5%, UM, COMPARED TO 20005% OF QUALIFIED VOTERS IN AUSTIN IS SOMEWHERE AROUND 29,000.
THAT'S MY, FROM OUR, OUR MATH, I THINK WE DID, THAT'S WHERE WE LANDED.
YOU STATE DISCUSSION ON RECOMMENDATION THREE APPLYING TO INITIATIVES REFERENDUMS AND CHARTER AMENDMENTS.
SHOULD IT ONLY BE INITIATIVE AND REFERENDUMS? BECAUSE CHARTER AMENDMENTS IS DETERMINED BY STATE LAW POTENTIALLY, YES.
SO, UM, THAT'S ALSO WHY WE WANTED TO DISCUSS, DISCUSS BECAUSE THERE WERE ALSO DISCUSSIONS ABOUT WHEN CHARTER AMENDMENTS, IF THEY, IF WHEN THEY COULD GO ON THE BALLOT.
UM, IT COULD ALSO BE THAT I WAS JUST TRYING TO FINISH THE MEMO PRETTY QUICKLY.
SO SHOULD WE REMOVE THE CHARTER AMENDMENT PHRASE FROM DISCUSSION ON RECOMMENDATION THREE? IF, UM, IF THAT IS LIKE A HUNDRED PERCENT NOT MOVABLE BECAUSE OF STATE LAW, THEN OF COURSE WE SHOULD.
UM, I THINK I MAY HAVE MISSED THE PRESENTATION EARLY ON WHEN WE HAD IT, SO I'M PROBABLY A LITTLE BIT, YOU KNOW, REMEDIAL.
UM, FOR, FOR THE, THE INS AND OUTS OF THE CHARTER AMENDMENTS, I JUST WASN'T SURE IF THERE WAS DISTINCTION BETWEEN HOME RULE AND NON-HOME RULE, BUT I DON'T THINK THERE IS, CAROLINE, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT FOR CHARTER AMENDMENT VOTES THAT WERE LOCKED IN AT THE 5% AND 20,000, WHICHEVER IS LESS.
IT'S IN THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE SECTION 9.004, SO, AND SO WE'RE LOCKED IN THAT FOR CHARTER AMENDMENTS, BUT UH, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW OUR CHARTER LIKENS THE OTHER TYPES OF PETITIONS, THE INITIATIVE REFERENDUM TO CHARTER AMENDMENTS, BUT YOU COULD CHANGE THE THRESHOLDS FOR THE, UH, FOR THOSE ONES OTHER THAN THE CHARTER AMENDMENT PETITIONS.
THANK YOU FOR THE CLARIFICATION.
SO YES, STRIKE, STRIKE CHARTER AMENDMENTS FROM THE RECOMMENDATION.
WELL, AND I THINK PERHAPS WHAT WE'RE ALSO TRYING TO SAY HERE IS THAT, UH, WE'RE CONFLATING THE ISSUES OF, OF SORT OF LIMITING THE AVAILABILITY OF CHARTER AMENDMENT ELECTIONS AS WELL, RIGHT? SO THAT, THAT THESE WOULD RUN KIND OF IN TANDEM IN TERMS OF AT LEAST LIMITING THEM TO MORE, UH, POPULAR ELECTION CYCLES.
I, BUT I MEAN AS FAR AS CHANGING THE THRESHOLD, THE VOTER THRESHOLD, YEAH, I APPRECIATE THAT'S OUT.
BUT I GUESS TO ILLUSTRATE THE POINT THAT THESE, THESE THINGS RUN IN, THESE THINGS WORK IN TANDEM, RIGHT? SO YES.
I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL OF YOU IN YOUR PACKET HAVE YOUR ONLY FOR YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU THE FOLLOWING TWO EXHIBITS.
UH, ONE HAS SIX OPTIONS OUTLINED AND FOUR COLUMNS, AND WE WILL CALL THIS THE MATRIX.
AND ANOTHER IS CITY OF AUSTIN TURNOUT 2012 TO PRESENT.
AND, UH, I, IN TERMS OF MY COMMENT AND SUGGESTION IN PROCESSING THE RECOMMENDATION THREE, I THINK THESE TWO WILL BE HELPFUL.
FIRST, I WANTED TO GO OVER THE TURNOUT DATA, WHICH IS FROM THE CITY OF AUSTIN ELECTION HISTORY WEBSITE, ONE OF MY FAVORITE WEBSITES.
UH, AND I LOOKED AT THE LAST DECADE, WHICH I CONSIDER THE, THE MODERN
[00:50:01]
SMD AND SIGNIFICANTLY FUNDED CITYWIDE INITIATIVES ERA.UH, WHAT YOU CAN SEE IN LOOKING AT THESE ARE ALL THE ELECTIONS THERE AND ANY ERRORS ARE MINE IS, UH, THE MALE ELECTIONS HAVE, UH, SIGNIFICANT STANDARD DEVIATION AND LOW TURNOUT.
THE NON MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTION, NOVEMBERS HAVE NOT THE HIGHEST TURNOUT.
UM, BUT LOW STANDARD DEVIATION ABOUT IT.
PART OF IT IS THAT THOSE TEND TO BE KIND OF SLEEPY ELECTIONS.
UM, AND FINALLY THE MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTION, WHETHER IT'S THE MIDTERM OR THE POTUS YEAR, THEY HAVE PRETTY HIGH TURNOUT.
UH, AND THERE'S A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE IN TERMS OF HOW INCLUSIVE YOUR ELECTION IS WHEN YOU AVERAGE 57% AND WHEN YOUR RANGE IS EIGHT TO 22%.
AND I THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO HAVE THESE NUMBERS, UH, PARTICULARLY SO THAT WE UNDERSTAND WHAT THE NON MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTION NOVEMBER LOOKS LIKE.
UM, AS WE HAVE THE CONVERSATION.
SECOND, UH, ON THE MATRIX, UH, ON THE TURNOUT FOR THOSE MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTIONS, THAT'S THE SHOWING UP AT ALL, BUT NOT NECESSARILY VOTING AT THESE THINGS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE BALLOT, IT IS THE FOLKS THAT HAVE PARTICIPATED IN AT LEAST ONE OF THE VOTES.
YEAH, SO MAYBE WE SHOULD LOOK AT WHAT'S THE ACTUAL VOTE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE BALLOT.
IF IT'S SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT FROM THE TOP, SOMEONE SHOULD CALCULATE THAT.
SO IN THE MATRIX, IF WE LOOK AT THE COLUMNS, JUST FOR EASE OF OF DISCUSSION, I'VE GIVEN THEM AN IDENTIFIER AND THEY FOLLOW VERY STRAIGHTFORWARD LOGIC ON THE INITIATIVE PETITION THRESHOLD, WHICH WE DO HAVE DISCRETION OVER.
THERE'S THREE OPTIONS THAT HAVE NO CHANGE AND THEN THREE THAT I'VE LABELED AS HAVING AN INCREASE AND THE INCREASE CAN HAVE SEVERAL VARIATIONS FOR THE CHARTER PETITION THRESHOLD.
AS WE JUST DISCUSSED, WE'RE KIND OF STUCK WITH 20 K AND THAT'S IMPORTANT THE 20 K 'CAUSE IT'S NOT 5%, 3%, IT IS 20,000 FOR THE INITIATIVE ELECTION POLICY, WHICH I THINK WILL BE THE AREA OF FOCUS FOR OUR DISCUSSION.
THERE'S BASICALLY THREE OPTIONS.
WE'VE DISCUSSED THE EARLIEST NOVEMBER, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE NON MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTION ONLY MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTION, AND WHAT WE HAVE CALLED THE CIRCUIT BREAKER AND OR HYBRID, WHICH IS THERE IS A THRESHOLD AT WHICH YOU GO TO MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTION AND ANOTHER THRESHOLD WHERE YOU JUST GO TO THE EARLIEST NOVEMBER.
AND THIS COULD HAVE AN ADDITIONAL PERMUTATION WHERE YOU JUST GO TO THE EARLIEST ELECTION.
FOR CHARTER ELECTION POLICY, AS WE HAVE DISCUSSED IN THE PAST, WE HAVE THE OPTION OF ALMOST ALWAYS, IF IT'S AVAILABLE, PREFERRING THE NEAREST MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTION WITH WHICH FOR US CORRELATES WITH THE HIGH TURNOUT.
AT THIS POINT, I WANT TO INTRODUCE A THIRD EXHIBIT THAT INTRODUCES A LITTLE WRINKLE.
CITY LEGAL, OUR GOOD FRIENDS CITY LEGAL HAVE INTERPRETED TWO YEARS AS 730 DAYS ELAPSING.
NOW IF YOU RUN FOR THE STATE LEGISLATURE AND YOU LOSE THAT NOVEMBER ELECTION AND YOU SAY IN TWO YEARS I'LL BE BACK, PEOPLE KNOW THAT YOU MEAN IN TWO CHRONOLOGICAL YEARS NOBODY'S SITTING THERE BEING 730 DAYS.
OH, OH, I GUESS YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO RUN NEXT NOVEMBER OF THE GENERAL ELECTION.
THAT SAID, FOR THE TIME BEING, LET US ENTERTAIN THAT STATE LEGAL IS CORRECT AND IT MEANS 730 DAYS.
I WANTED TO KNOW IF YOU WANTED TO HAVE A CHARTER MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTION BACK TO BACK, HOW OFTEN COULD YOU DO THAT? SO I WROTE A SMALL SHORT LITTLE COMPUTER SCRIPT, A COMPUTER APPLICATION TO HELP US FIGURE THAT OUT.
AND THAT IS REPORTED IN THIS THE THIRD EXHIBIT, WHICH IS JUST THE, UH, COUNT OF BACK TO BACK BEING ALLOWED.
AND IT LOOKS AT STARTING FROM 2010 UNTIL 2108, EVERY SINGLE DYAD OF DOING THE BACK-TO-BACK MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTION.
HOW MANY DAYS HAVE ELAPSED AND YOU SEE THE COUNT THERE WOULD THEREFORE IT BE ALLOWED TO HAVE A BACK TO BACK MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTION CHARTER REFERENDUM.
OFTENTIMES IT IS NO, AND IF YOU LOOK AT IT IN THAT PERIOD, ONLY 18 IS AN ACTUAL YES.
WHY DOES THIS MATTER? BECAUSE IF WE STICK WITH THE IDEA THAT INDEED THE INTERPRETATION THAT SEVEN 30 DAYS MUST HAVE ELAPSED IS CORRECT FROM TIME TO TIME,
[00:55:01]
DEPENDING ON IDIOSYNCRATIC CIRCUMSTANCES, THERE WILL BE A MAY CHARTER ELECTION.SO WITH THESE THREE EXHIBITS IN YOUR HANDS AND THE DIFFERENT PIECES OF INFORMATION CONVEYED, I THINK WE NOW HAVE SOME TOOLS THAT CAN HELP US HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT WHICH SIGNATURE THRESHOLD IS BEST.
MY PERSONAL OPINION, WHICH IS WHAT I WILL CONCLUDE WITH IS THAT BECAUSE OF THE 20,000 SIGNATURE REQUIREMENT FOR THE CHARTER, WE DO NOT WANT TO INCENTIVIZE PEOPLE USING THE CHARTER AS A WAY OF RIGGING POLICY.
THAT SAID, WE DO WANT TO MAKE SURE THE VOTES ARE INCLUSIVE.
A THEORETICAL SOLUTION TO THIS IS TO SAY THAT WE WILL MAKE IT EASY TO GET ON, BUT HARD TO WIN.
AND SO OUR POLICIES SHOULD PUSH TOWARDS THE HIGHEST TURNOUT ELECTIONS.
ONE EXCEPTION FOR THIS IS A CIRCUIT BREAKER DISCUSSION THAT WE HAVE HAD, SO THAT HOT INITIATIVES THAT MUST BE ADDRESSED IMMEDIATELY IF THEY MEET A HIGHER THRESHOLD, WHICH I BELIEVE SHOULD BE PERCENTAGE BASED, WILL ALLOW FOR THE EARLIEST NOVEMBER VOTE, ALTHOUGH I'D BE WILLING TO ENTERTAIN A MAY VOTE IF THE THRESHOLD THROUGH OUR DISCUSSION IS DEEMED TO BE SIGNIFICANT ENOUGH TO JUSTIFY THE RISK OF THE LACK OF INCLUSION.
I HAVE A, UH, SOME CLARIFYING QUESTIONS.
UM, ON YOUR FINAL EXHIBIT HERE, COMMISSIONER.
UM, YOU JUST SAID THAT IN THE CASES WHERE I'M ASSUMING IT'S A NO OR A ZERO, UM,
IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID? YOU YOU WOULD BE REQUIRED BECAUSE IF YOU REMEMBER, AND YOU CAN SEE THE LANGUAGE, IT'S IN MY DRAFTED RECOMMENDATION ON CHARTER CHANGE ELECTIONS HELD ON MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTION DATES.
IT SAYS THE ORDINANCE ORDERING THE ELECTION SHALL PROVIDE FOR THE ELECTION TO BE HELD ON THE FIRST AUTHORIZED UNIFORM ELECTION DATE PRESCRIBED BY THE ELECTION CODE MAY IN SOME CASES OR ON THE EARLIER OF THE DATE OF THE NEXT MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTION OR PRESIDENTIAL GENERAL ELECTION.
SO WE HAVE THE OPTION OF TYING OUR HANDS TO THE MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTION.
THE WAY THAT I ELEGANTLY FIGURED THIS OUT FOR YOU LAWYERS IS WHEN NOT IN CONFLICT WITH THE STATE CONSTITUTION OR STATE LAWS AND ORDINANCE ORDERING, THE ELECTION OF A CHARTER AMENDMENT SHALL PROVIDE FOR THE ELECTION TO BE HELD ON THE DATE OF THE EARLIEST MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTION.
IF IT IS IN CONFLICT BECAUSE IT IS IN THE SEVEN 30 DAY WINDOW, THEN WE HAVE TO FOLLOW STATE LAW, WHICH WOULD REQUIRE THE NEAR THE SOONEST, UM, UNIFORM ELECTION DATE AND THAT'S A MAY.
AND UM, I'M NOT GOOD AT VISUAL ACCOUNTING.
HOW MANY ZEROES ARE THERE ON THIS PAGE VERSUS ONES? IT'S 18 TO 50.
SO IF WE WERE WANTED TO GET INTO A CYCLE OF EVERY TWO YEARS, CAN'T DO IT.
AND I SAW THE 18, IF WE ACCEPT THE SEVEN 30 DAY, DO WE HAVE ANY CHOICE FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH, THAT WASN'T MY READ OF THE STATUTE.
I LEAVE A DISCUSSION TO FOLKS WITH THE APPROPRIATE CREDENTIALS TO HAVE.
WELL, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE NEED TO EXAMINE IT IN DETAIL RIGHT NOW.
I THINK, UH, I THINK THAT THAT SECOND OPTION WOULD, ISN'T STRUCTURED IN A WAY THAT WOULD PUSH ELECTIONS TO MAY.
WELL, IF CITY LEGAL IT TELLING IT TELLS COUNSEL, HEY, YOU CAN'T HAVE IT.
YOU CAN'T CALL IT OR YOU CAN'T.
I MEAN IF THE LAW REQUIRES THAT, THEN SURE.
I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU QUALIFIED IT BY SAYING IF CITY LEGAL TELLS THEM, I MEAN PRESUMABLY THEY WOULD BE GIVING A CORRECT RECITATION OF THE LAW.
SO IT'S REALLY WHATEVER THE LAW SAYS.
UM, I JUST WANTED TO FLAG THAT I THINK THAT THAT THAT SECTION IS WHAT THE, THE, YOU'RE SAYING THAT YOU DO NOT ACCEPT THAT TWO YEARS OF 730 DAYS OR THAT UP SAYING WE'RE NOT IN CONFLICT WITH STATE CONSTITUTION OR STATE LAW? NO.
SO WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT IN THE EVENT THAT THE CHARTER SAID ELECTIONS COULD ONLY HAPPEN IN EBIT NUMBER NOVEMBERS, AND IN ONE OF THESE SITUATIONS WHERE THERE ARE FEWER THAN 730 DAYS BETWEEN THOSE TWO ELECTIONS MM-HMM.
AND THE SECTION AS I RECALL IS STRUCTURED.
ODDLY, I WISH THE LEGISLATURE KNEW HOW TO USE A SEMI.
UM, BUT IT DOES SEEM TO BE PRETTY
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QUICK, PRETTY, MY RECOLLECTION IS IT IS STRUCTURED WHERE YOU EITHER THE FIRST HALF OF THE PARAGRAPH, IT GOES TO WHATEVER THE NEXT ELECTION IS, WHETHER IT'S FOR SCHOOL BOARD OR EMERGENCY SERVICE DISTRICT OR WHATEVER.OR IT'S THE SECOND PART WHERE THE CITY CAN BIND ITSELF TO SAY EITHER PRESIDENTIAL YEARS OR MUNICIPAL ELECTIONS IN, OH BOY, OUR MUNICIPAL ELECTIONS ARE ALL IN NOVEMBER.
SO I DON'T, I DON'T SEE A SCENARIO WHERE THIS RESULTS IN A MAIL ELECTION.
JUST THE SIMPLE FACT THAT YOU CAN'T HAVE A CHARTER EVERY TWO, A CHARTER ELECTION EVERY TWO YEARS.
I THINK WHAT IT WOULD BE IS IN THE ALTERNATIVE, YOU CAN ONLY HAVE A CHARTER ELECTION SOME OF THESE TIMES EVERY FOUR YEARS, WHICH IS ACTUALLY WOULD MAKE THE DISCUSSION ABOUT THE BALLOT INITIATIVE THRESHOLD MORE CONSEQUENTIAL.
UM, AS AN ASIDE, WELL 9 0 4 B IS SHALL ON THE FIRST AUTHORIZED UNIFORM ELECTION DATE AND THAT WOULD BE A MAY.
YOU HAVE THE SECTION LANGUAGE RIGHT HERE.
TELL ME AGAIN WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT.
IT'S LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE 9 0 4 B.
THE ORDINANCE SHALL AND THEN HELD ON THE FIRST SHALL AND THEN HELD ON THE FIRST AUTHORIZED UNIFORM ELECTION DATE OR MM-HMM.
OR PRESIDENTIAL GENERAL ELECTION.
BUT TEXAS CONSTITUTION SAYS TWO YEARS AND STATE LEGAL SAYS TWO YEARS IS 730 DAYS.
SO THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION WOULD FORCE.
WELL, IF THAT'S THE CASE, WHY ARE WE ASSUMING THEN THAT TWO YEARS EQUALS 730 DAYS? TALK TO MS. WE A LOT.
ALL RIGHT, MS. WEBSTER? COMMISSIONER WEBSTER
I COULD PROBABLY FIND A COUPLE COURT CASES AND ATTORNEY GENERAL OPINIONS THAT MAKE IT, UH, VERY CLEAR THAT IT MEANS TWO FULL YEARS COUNTING DAY BY DAY AS OPPOSED TO, FOR EXAMPLE, THERE ARE CERTAIN OTHER THINGS, AND THAT'S BECAUSE IT'S WHAT THE, THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION SAYS.
THERE IS A SECTION OF THE ELECTION CODE WHERE IT SAYS THAT EXCEPT AS PROVIDED IN THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION, IF A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF PERIOD HAS TO LAPSE BETWEEN ELECTIONS, YOU CAN JUST PUT IT ON THE NEXT UNIFORM ELECTION DATE.
SO IF IT'S, IF IT'S LIKE FOUR OR FIVE DAYS SHORT FROM NOVEMBER TO THE NOVEMBER TWO YEARS LATER, THAT'S OKAY.
YOU CAN HAVE THE ELECTION ON THAT NOVEMBER DATE, EXCEPT FOR ELECTIONS THAT ARE, UM, PROVIDED FOR IN THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION.
AND, UM, IT'S THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION THAT SAYS A CHARTER MAY NOT BE AMENDED OFTENER THAN EVERY TWO YEARS.
AND LIKE I SAID, THE ELECTION CODE EXEMPTS CHARTER, UH, TEXAS CONSTITUTION REQUIREMENTS.
SO THAT'S WHY IT IS A FULL TWO YEARS, NOT JUST THE NEXT NOVEMBER, TWO YEARS LATER, OR THE NEXT MAY, TWO YEARS LATER, WHATEVER IT IS.
BUT, AND I CAN FIND YOU, IF YOU'D LIKE IT, I CAN FIND YOU.
UM, I'M SURE I CAN FIND ATTORNEY GENERAL OPINIONS ON THAT AND I'LL, I'LL CAN LOOK FOR COURT CASES IF YOU, IF YOU WANT IT, UH, YOU KNOW, JUST TO SEND IT TO YOU AND JUST SO YOU HAVE THAT, UM, INFORMATION.
UH, BUT JUST SPEAK FOR MYSELF AND SAY THAT WOULD BE DELIGHTFUL.
UH, COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, JUST A QUICK QUESTION.
SO TWO FULL YEARS, EVERY FOURTH YEAR, THERE'S NOT 365 DAYS, THERE'S 366, SO MAYBE ON YOUR SPREADSHEET IT MIGHT BE EVEN LESS THAN 18 OUT OF 50 THAT WOULD QUALIFY TO REALLY DO IT IN TWO YEARS, IF THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GONNA POTENTIALLY STICK WITH.
THE SOFTWARE LIBRARY THAT I USED IS AWARE OF, UH, LEAVE DAY.
THE WAY THAT IT IS POSTED ON THE CITY'S WEBSITE AND HAS BEEN CONVEYED TO ME, IT'S SEVEN 30 FLAT.
AND WE'RE GONNA GET SOME DECISIONS THAT WILL EVIDENCE THAT IN THE, FOR THE SAKE OF TIME AND COHERENCE, I SIMPLY ACCEPTED IT AS A CONSTRAINT, BUT I HOPE OTHERS WILL REVISIT IT AS I KNOW THAT FOLKS IN THE COUNCIL CHAMBERS AND THE COMMUNITY DO NOT ALWAYS AGREE WITH IT.
BUT ASSUMING THAT OUR LEGAL ADVISORS ARE CORRECT, WE STILL NEED TO MAKE A DECISION.
UM, AND EVEN IF OUR LEGAL ADVISORS ARE INCORRECT, WE, THE CORE PROBLEM OF WE DON'T WANT THE CHARTER TO BECOME A POLICY CHRISTMAS TREE REMAINS.
[01:05:07]
FOLLOW UP QUESTION.WHAT PART OF THE LAW SAID THAT A CHARTER ELECTION MUST OCCUR WITHIN A PARTICULAR TIMEFRAME? UH, BEYOND WHAT WE HAVE WITH 9.004? SO THE CONSTITUTION, YES.
IT SAYS IT MAY NOT HAPPEN OFTEN OR THAN EVERY TWO YEARS.
AND SO THAT IS LIKE TWO SEPARATE CLAUSES.
I MEAN, IT SEEMS PRETTY CONSISTENT.
YOU CAN'T DO IT MORE OFTEN THAN EVERY TWO YEARS.
AND IF IT'S BEEN RESTRICTED TO CERTAIN DATES AND YOU HAVEN'T, THE AMOUNT OF TIME HASN'T ELAPSED, ASSUMING THAT IT'S 730 DAYS.
YOU'RE SUGGESTING PEOPLE PETITION AND WAIT FOUR YEARS POTENTIALLY.
NO, I'M SAYING NOT THAT THEY SHOULD, BUT RATHER THAT WOULD BE THE CONSEQUENCE OF PICKING THAT OPTION.
SO IF WE PICK THAT OPTION, I, WHAT I HAD UNDERSTOOD YOU TO BE SAYING IS THAT THERE MAY, IF WE, NO PUN INTENDED, IF WE PICKED THAT OPTION, THERE MAY BE A SITUATION IN WHICH WE INADVERTENTLY ENDED UP WITH A MAY ELECTION.
AND I THINK THAT THAT WOULD NOT BE THE CONSEQUENCE OF THAT CHOICE.
THE CONSEQUENCE WOULD BE THAT WE JUST SIMPLY COULDN'T HAVE A CHARTER ELECTION EACH NOVEMBER.
WE'D HAVE TO WAIT FOUR YEARS BETWEEN SOME OF THEM.
AND I MEAN, I THINK WE CAN AMEND, WE CAN AMEND THE SUGGESTED CHARTER CHANGE TO CLARIFY THAT.
WE'RE NOT SAYING PEOPLE SHOULD WAIT FOUR YEARS.
I, I THINK, SORRY, I, I GUESS ONE OF THE THINGS I'M TRYING TO SAY, JUST IN THE INTEREST OF TIME IS TO REFOCUS THE DISCUSSION ON WHAT DO WE WANT TO SUGGEST AS A RECOMMENDATION OF WHEN, WHAT SHOULD BE HELD.
'CAUSE THEN WE CAN ADJUST THE ORDINANCE LANGUAGE TO MATCH THAT.
BUT WELL, ACCEPTING THAT WE HAVE CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS, AND THE TWO CORE ONES ARE CHARTER 20 K CHARTER'S GOT THIS FUNNY LITTLE THING ABOUT YOU CAN'T DO THE SEVEN 30 A DAY THING.
AND SO THOSE ARE LIKE THE REQUIREMENTS THAT, UH, ARE QUIRKY.
ON THE INITIATIVE SIDE, WE HAVE INCREDIBLE FLEXIBILITY.
AND SO THEN UNDERSTANDING THAT AND OUR DESIRE TO AVOID CERTAIN SITUATIONS, IMPROVE CERTAIN AND IMPROVE INCLUSION, WHAT'S THE BEST, WHAT'S THE BEST POLICY? AND MY RECOMMENDATION IS KEEP 20 FOR BOTH.
PICK A CIRCUIT BREAKER, BREAK PERCENTAGE, OTHER THAN THAT, MOVE EVERYTHING AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE TO MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTION.
ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY COMMENT? YES.
COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, UM, MAYBE STAFFER MS. WEBSTER COULD TELL US WHERE DOES THE 180 DAYS FOR THE SIGNATURES TO STAY VALID COME FROM? BECAUSE WHAT I WAS THINKING IS, IF YOU END UP HAVING TO WAIT CLOSE TO TWO YEARS OR OVER TWO YEARS, THOSE SIGNATURES OUGHT NOT EXPIRE, UM, UNTIL SOME DATE, A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONTHS BEFORE YOU HAVE TO TURN IT INTO THE CLERK.
UM, OR UNTIL WHATEVER DATE THERE IS, MAYBE WE SAY THERE'S A DATE.
I'VE SEEN SOME CITIES THAT SAY THEY HAVE TO BE TURNED IN BY FEBRUARY 1ST, AND, AND SIGNATURES REMAIN VALID UNTIL THEN.
UM, BECAUSE IF IT'S GONNA BE A LONG TIME THAT YOU COULD GET SOMETHING ON THE BALLOT, IT SEEMS A LITTLE UNFAIR TO SAY THOSE SIGNATURES EXPIRE.
MS. CAROLINE, UH, THAT'S IN THE TEXAS ELECTION CODE IN CHAPTER 2 77.
UH, SO UNLESS THE LEGISLATURE SEES FIT TO CHANGE THAT WE, WE CAN'T CHANGE IT.
WE COULD MAKE IT SHORTER, BUT WE CAN'T MAKE IT LONGER.
AND I CAN GIVE YOU THE EXACT SECTION IF YOU WANT IT, BUT IT'S IN CHAPTER 2 77.
THEY ONLY GO STALE WHILE THEY'RE STILL OUT IN THE WILD.
SO IT'S 180 DAYS FROM THE DATE THE PETITION IS FILED.
UH, COMMISSIONER DWYER, I JUST WANTED TO STATE THAT RESOLVING THIS INTERPRETATION IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR ME TO COME TO A CONCLUSION ON WHICH OF THESE OPTIONS, UM, WE CHOOSE BECAUSE IT DOES AFFECT WHETHER CHARTER AND INITIATIVES ARE GOING TO BE IN COMPETITION WITH EACH OTHER IN TIME.
UM, IF THEY'RE ALL BEING THEORETICALLY HEARD IN NOVEMBER, THEN I HAVE ONE OPINION.
IF THEY ARE GOING TO BE SPLIT MORE THAN HALF THE TIME INTO
[01:10:01]
DIFFERENT PLACES IN THE CALENDAR, I HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION.UM, SO I'M NOT SAYING WE SHOULD STOP TALKING ABOUT IT, BUT, UM, I WOULD NOT WANT TO MOVE FORWARD ON ANY SORT OF RECOMMENDATION TONIGHT PERSONALLY WITHOUT HAVING THAT KEY PIECE OF INFORMATION.
SO IT, IT, IT SEEMS, IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO ME, I THINK, UM, TO MAYBE RE, I DON'T WANNA SAY REFOCUS, BUT, BUT TALK ABOUT, UH, A LITTLE, A LITTLE ABOUT, UH, THE POLICY OBJECTIVES THAT WE'RE GOING FORWARD WITH ALL THIS.
UM, WE'RE, WE'RE KIND OF IN THE WEEDS ON THE MECHANICS, UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, THE OBJECTIVES THAT WE'RE SEEKING, THAT'S REALLY KIND OF THE KEY THING THAT, UH, I'D, I'D LOVE TO, TO GET EVERYONE'S THOUGHTS ON.
YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TWO LEVERS HERE.
ONE IS THE, THE LENGTH BETWEEN THE ELECTIONS, UM, YOU KNOW, WHICH TENDS TO, UM, YOU KNOW, DISFAVOR, YOU KNOW, THE SORT OF RAPID FIRE, UH, UH, ELECTION, YOU KNOW, THINGS THAT WE'RE TRYING TO AVOID COST-WISE AND, AND SORT OF ABUSE OF THE PROCESS.
AND THE OTHER IS THE, THE, THE SIGNATURE THRESHOLD, YOU KNOW, THE NUMBER OF, OF SIGNATURES REQUIRED TO GET ON THAT BALLOT.
AND WE CAN KIND OF ADJUST THOSE TWO LEVERS.
YOU KNOW, THE, THE THINGS THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IN THE MECHANICS GROUP, UH, ARE ABOUT THE, THE LENGTH BETWEEN THE, THE ELECTION DATES, BUT THAT'S INEXTRICABLY TIED TO THE, UH, TO THE THRESHOLD ISSUE AS WELL, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES WE MIGHT WANNA ADJUST ONE, YOU KNOW, IF WE WANNA LENGTHEN THE TIME BETWEEN ELECTIONS, WE MIGHT, YOU KNOW, FAVOR A LOWER THRESHOLD TO MAKE IT EASIER TO SORT OF GET ON THE BALLOT, BUT THEN LENGTHEN THE TIME, UH, BETWEEN THE ELECTION.
SO WE'RE NOT DOING IT ALL THE TIME.
BUT, YOU KNOW, I I, IT'S WELL TAKEN THE POINT THAT THERE MAY BE SOME ISSUES WHERE, UH, A, A POLICY OBJECTIVE IS SO URGENT, UM, THAT WE WANT TO GET IT ON THE BALLOT SOONER THAN, YOU KNOW, THE LENGTHY TIME THAT WE'VE GOT.
AND IN THAT CASE, WE MIGHT WANNA HAVE A HIGHER, UH, THRESHOLD.
SO WHEN, WHEN COMMISSIONER ANO TALKS ABOUT A CIRCUIT BREAKER, THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT IS THE, THE TIME WHEN, UH, MAYBE THERE'S, THERE'S A SITUATION WHERE WE WANT TO SORT OF, UH, ADDRESS THAT SITUATION.
UH, SO I'D LOVE TO GET EVERYBODY'S THOUGHTS ON, YOU KNOW, KIND OF HOW YOU VIEW, UH, THE POLICY CHOICE, THE FUNDAMENTAL POLICY CHOICE THAT WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE, UH, HERE, BECAUSE THAT'S REALLY GONNA INFORM HOW WE APPROACH THE MECHANICS OF ALL THIS.
THANK YOU COMMISSIONER BUCKEN.
I THINK WE'RE GETTING A LITTLE LOST IN THE SAUCE.
LET'S, UH, UM, SO YEAH, UM, JUST PICKING UP ON, ON WHAT YOU SAID WITH THE REGARD TO THE, THE OBJECTIVES THAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH HERE IS ANY DISCUSSION ON LENGTH OF TIME VERSUS THE NUMBER OF PETITION SIGNATURES? I'LL, I'LL JUST OFFER MINE FIRST.
I MEAN, I, I, I REALLY AM IN FAVOR OF, I'M SORT OF A, I GUESS IT'S A PRACTICAL APPROACH.
UM, YOU KNOW, I, I'M, I'M NOT EAGER TO HOLD THESE ELECTIONS, UH, FREQUENTLY, UH, SORT OF FOR COST REASONS.
AND, AND I THINK IT'S, IT SEEMS CLEAR TO ME FROM THE, UH, THE CHARGE WE'VE BEEN GIVEN THAT, UH, THE COUNCIL DISFAVOR, YOU KNOW, SORT OF RAPID FIRE ELECTIONS.
AND, UM, AND SO I'M GONNA, I I PROBABLY WILL FAVOR, UH, LENGTHENING THE TIME AND TRYING TO FOCUS ON MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTIONS FOR, UH, ALMOST EVERYTHING THAT WE CAN.
UM, WHILE SORT OF BEING MINDFUL THAT, UH, AND, AND I'LL, I'LL IN, IN MOST CASES WANT TO, I DON'T KNOW IF, IF RAISING THE THRESHOLD IS NECESSARILY A, A FIX FOR THE ILLS THAT HAVE BEEN DESCRIBED TO US, BUT THAT IT MAY BE MITIGATED BY THE LENGTHENING THE TIME.
UH, BUT I ALSO WANT TO CONSIDER THE, THE IDEA OF THIS CIRCUIT BREAKER WHERE WE, WE CAN IN THEORY, ADDRESS AN URGENT SITUATION, UM, BY HAVING A HIGHER THRESHOLD FOR A MORE FREQUENT ELECTION.
THAT'S GONNA BE MECHANICALLY, THAT'LL BE MORE DIFFICULT.
UH, BUT THAT'LL BE A SITUATION THAT PROBABLY IS GONNA COME UP AT SOME POINT IN THEORY.
AND SO I'M GOING TO BE FLEXIBLE ENOUGH TO SORT OF ADDRESS THAT IF IT HAPPENS.
YES, COMMISSIONER DWYER IN THE SPIRIT OF LAYING OUR CARDS ON THE TABLE OR GOING AROUND THE TABLE, OR WHATEVER THE METAPHOR IS.
UM, AND I THINK PART, PART OF THE REASON CYNTHIA PUT THIS FORWARD TO US AS A NUMBER OF OPTIONS, BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE UNANIMITY IN OUR GROUP.
I MEAN, WE DID WANNA HEAR WHAT EVERYONE ELSE THOUGHT ABOUT THESE ISSUES.
I DUNNO IF THIS IS THE BEST WAY TO GO ABOUT DOING IT, BUT, UM, I'M GAME FOR ME PERSONALLY, I, UM, AM ALSO IN FAVOR OF INCREASING THE TIME BETWEEN ELECTIONS SO THAT THEY ALL IDEALLY FALL ON NOVEMBERS, IF THAT'S PRACTICABLE, GIVEN THE CONSTRAINTS OF STATE LAW, UM, AND THAT THE PETITION THRESHOLD IN GENERAL BE HIGHER IN A PERCENTAGE.
I'M, I'M PERSONALLY GENERALLY OPPOSED TO RAW NUMBERS IN PUBLIC POLICY BECAUSE THEY TEND TO DEGRADE OVER TIME.
AND THIS NUMBER IN PARTICULAR DEGRADES WITH EVERY PERSON WHO MOVES TO AUSTIN.
UM, THAT SAID, I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S A BIG CAVEAT HERE, WHICH IS THAT GIVEN THE CONSTRAINTS OF STATE LAW AROUND CHARTER SIGNATURE THRESHOLDS, WE DON'T WANT TO CREATE A PERVERSE INCENTIVE TO HAVE GROUPS PIVOT AWAY FROM INITIATIVES INTO CHARTER ELECTIONS AS A WAY TO ENACT PUBLIC POLICY.
[01:15:01]
SO WITH THAT SAID, UM, I'M VERY MUCH ALIGNED, I THINK WITH WHAT YOU SAID, COMMISSIONER BOTKIN WITH THE ONE STIPULATION THAT I WOULD, I WOULD ARGUE, GIVEN THE CONVERSATION WE HAD IN OUR WORKING GROUP LAST WEEK, I WOULD NOW ARGUE AGAINST A CIRCUIT BREAKER.UM, ONLY BECAUSE WE, BETWEEN THE FOUR OF US COULDN'T, UM, OR FIVE OF US COULDN'T COME UP WITH A THEORETICAL SITUATION IN MIND THAT WOULD WARRANT SUCH, UM, HEAT.
AND, UM, IT WAS POINTED OUT CORRECTLY, I THINK BY SOMEONE THAT, UM, THERE ARE SOME ENTITIES OUT THERE THAT REGARDLESS OF THE SIGNATURE THRESHOLD, WILL, UM, BE WILLING TO PURCHASE THEIR WAY ONTO, UM, THE BALLOT.
AND THAT WE WOULD PREFER TO KEEP THOSE PEOPLE IN NOVEMBER, UM, AND NOT OFFER THEM ANOTHER OPTION, UH, FOR A MALE ELECTORATE.
UM, I'M, AND AGAIN, IN THE, IN THE, UH, IN THE SPIRIT OF, OF LAYING THE CARDS ON THE TABLE, RIGHT, UH, I, I TEND TO AGREE, UM, WITH, WITH THE SENTIMENT OF, UM, OF HAVING EVERYTHING TOWARDS THE NOVEMBER ELECTION, UM, I THINK THAT'S GONNA ENSURE THE GREATEST NUMBER OF THE GREATEST TURNOUT.
UM, AND I ALSO AGREE THAT MAKING IT A PERCENTAGE JUST MAKES MORE SENSE OF, UH, OF POP OF, BECAUSE IT'LL ALLOW FOR THE FLEXIBILITY TO GROW AND NOT PUT THE NEXT CHARTER COMMISSION IN THE SAME POSITION TO LOOK AT A NUMBER THAT MAY OR MAY NOT REFLECT, UM, THE, THE MAKEUP, RIGHT.
YEAH, I'M NOT TRYING TO PUT ANYBODY ON THE SPOT.
I'M JUST DOING, WE SEEM TO BE TIED UP IN THE MECHANICS DISCUSSION, AND IT, IT, I JUST WANTED TO, TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THESE ARE REALLY KIND OF POLICY CHOICES, UM, THAT WE'RE, THAT WE'RE MAKING AS WELL.
AND, AND SO I WANNA SORT OF ACKNOWLEDGE THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT JUST A MATTER OF, UH, SORT OF MOVING ONE LEVER BECAUSE IT'S GONNA AFFECT SOME OTHER THINGS AS WELL.
WE DON'T HAVE TO GO AROUND THE ROOM.
IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE EVERYONE IS
UM, POLICY WISE, I'M NOT REALLY IN FAVOR OF MAKING PARTICIPATION BY THE PUBLIC MORE DIFFICULT, WHICH ALL OF THESE OPTIONS SEEM TO MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR THE PUBLIC TO HAVE SOME, UM, ABILITY TO OVERRIDE OR ENHANCE WHAT THE COUNCIL DOES.
I WAS SURPRISED BY THE STATEMENT, WE WANNA MAKE IT EASY TO GET ON, BUT HARD TO WIN.
I DON'T THINK IT'S OUR PLACE TO MAKE THINGS HARD TO WIN.
UM, IT'S UP TO THE ELECTORATE TO DECIDE, UM, WHETHER IT SHOULD BE, YOU KNOW, WHETHER THINGS WIN OR LOSE.
AND OF COURSE, YOU CAN CAMPAIGN ON THOSE ISSUES, BUT I'M JUST GENERALLY NOT IN FAVOR OF MAKING THIS MORE DIFFICULT.
I THINK ANYONE WHO COLLECTS 20,000 SIGNATURES THINKS THAT THEIR ISSUE IS IMMEDIATE.
UM, AND THAT THE CIRCUIT BREAKER SUGGESTION OF 50,000 SIGNATURES, WHICH YOU'D HAVE TO GET DONE IN 180 DAYS, IS PROBABLY ONLY FOR THE VERY WELL-FUNDED PACS.
UM, TO GET 50,000 SIGNATURES IS NOT GOING TO BE AN EASY THING.
YOU RAISE THE SIGNATURES, YOU'RE CHANGING WHO HAS THE ABILITY TO PUT ISSUES ONTO THE BALLOT? THE HIGHER THE NUMBER OF SIGNATURES, THE MORE IT'S GOING TO FAVOR THOSE WITH THE MONEY.
COMMISSIONER, COMMISSIONER ORTEGA, JUST A CLARIFICATION.
YOU SAID ALL OF THESE RECOMMENDATIONS YOU THINK MAY HAVE HURT THE LITTLE D DEMOCRATIC PROCESS.
ARE YOU REFERRING JUST TO THIS ONE TOPIC OR EVERYTHING THAT THE WORK GROUP HAS LAID OUT, SUCH AS ALPHABET ROTATION? NO.
HAVING A, I I THINK IT'S FINE TO HAVE, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, STANDARDIZED FORM AND TO HAVE, UM, A NOTICE THAT YOU'RE PLANNING TO, TO DO THIS.
I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO HAVE INFORMATION ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING ITS, UM, CAMPAIGN FINANCE INFORMATION.
I THINK ALL OF THAT IS, IS GOOD AND HELPS WITH TRANSPARENCY, BUT THE ADDITIONAL SIGNATURES AND THE LENGTHENING, THE TIME BETWEEN ELECTIONS, I MEAN, THE ONLY THING IN TERMS OF, I WOULD BE RELUCTANT IF THERE'S A WAY OR FAVOR, IF THERE'S A WAY TO SAY THAT WE DON'T HAVE SPECIALLY CALLED ELECTIONS THAT ONLY
[01:20:01]
HAVE A PETITION ON IT, YOU KNOW, PETITION QUESTION.BUT IF THERE'S ALREADY AN ELECTION GOING ON, EVEN IF IT'S FOR, UM, YOU KNOW, COUNTY JUDGES, THE COST OF ADDING AUSTIN QUESTIONS IS NOT SO HIGH.
RIGHT? IT'S WHEN THERE'S NO ELECTION PLANNED AND YOU HAVE TO DO A SPECIAL ELECTION JUST FOR A PETITION THAT I HOPE WE COULD AVOID.
COMMISSIONER S YEAH, I JUST, UM, WANTED TO FOLLOW UP TO COMMISSIONER GREENBERG'S POINTS ON THIS.
I, I MEAN, I THINK THAT WE HAVE DEMONSTRABLE EVIDENCE THAT ELECTIONS IN MAY ARE LESS DEMOCRATIC, RIGHT? AND SO WHAT, WHAT'S THAT LESS PARTICIPATION CERTAINLY, WHICH, WHICH MAKES THEM, YOU KNOW, BY NATURE LESS DEMOCRATIC.
I MEAN, I THINK FEWER PEOPLE HEAR ABOUT THEM, FEWER PEOPLE EDUCATED AROUND THEM.
AND SO WHAT, WHAT I, I DON'T WANNA, UH, PUT WORDS IN IN COMMISSIONER ALTA MURANO'S, UH, MOUTH, BUT WHAT I INTERPRETED BY THAT STATEMENT WAS THAT WE DO WANNA MAKE IT EASY TO, I MEAN, THAT IT, THAT IT'S AN ADMIRABLE GOAL TO MAKE THINGS EASY TO PUT UP FOR VOTE, BUT NOT TO SQUEEZE THEM IN WITH 5% PARTICIPATION RATE AND GETTING TWO AND A HALF PERCENT, UM, OF THE CITY'S ELECTORATE VOTING FOR YOUR PROPOSAL AND WINNING A MAJORITY.
SO, YOU KNOW, I I, I GUESS I HAD ASSUMED UP TO YOUR POINT THAT MAYBE WE WERE ALL IN FAVOR OF MAKING THEM AS HIGH CONCENTRATED, UH, OF ELECTIONS AS POSSIBLE.
BUT I, I MEAN, YEAH, I MEAN, I, I DO, I THINK THAT, UH, GETTING, UH, MOVING THESE KINDS OF, UM, ISSUES TO WHERE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF, OF VOTERS CA CASTING A BALLOT OR HEARING ABOUT IT, OR, YOU KNOW, UM, BEING ENGAGED IN THE PROCESS IS A, I THINK IS AN ADMIRABLE GOAL OF THE COMMISSION AND SOMETHING WE SHOULD BE DOING.
I TEND TO AGREE THAT THAT, UM, INCREASING THAT, WELL, I, I TEND TO ERR ON THE SIDE, I THINK SIMILARLY TO COMMISSIONER, COMMISSIONER DWYER, ALTHOUGH I'M SOMEWHAT AGNOSTIC ON THIS POINT, THAT HAVING A HIGHER THRESHOLD WOULD, UH, PUT OUT REACH, UH, FOR THOSE INTERIM ELECTIONS, UH, A BALLOT MEASURE FOR ORGANIZATIONS THAT WEREN'T AS WELL FUNDED.
SO THAT, THAT CAUSES SOME CONCERN ON MY POINT, BUT, UM, ON MY PART.
BUT YEAH, FOR ME, I THINK THE, THE HIGHEST PRIORITY IS TO ENSURE THAT THEY'RE, UM, TO AS MUCH OF EXTENT AS WE CAN, UM, EFFECT THAT THEY'RE PUSHED TO HIGHER TURNOUT ELECTIONS.
SO THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY GETTING THE VOICE OF, OF AUSTIN VOTERS.
COMMISSIONER OFFICER MURANO, JUST TO GO BACK TO THE, UH, FRAMING OF MY COLLEAGUE, UM, INITIATIVE, IS THERE AS AN OPTION TO ENSURE THAT WHEN POLICY DEVIATES FROM THE WISHES OF THE MAJORITY OR THE MEDIAN VOTER CITIZENS ARE ABLE TO USE AS A TOOL TO GET POLICY TO CONVERGE IN, UH, POLITICAL THEORETICAL TERMS, IT IS A MECHANISM TO ENSURE THAT SUBSTANTIVE POLICY ALIGNS WITH THE WILL OF THE MEDIAN VOTER.
OUR SYSTEM HAS ONE VERY IMPORTANT FLAW.
WE HAVE RUNOFF ELECTIONS THAT FEATURE SIGNIFICANT ENTROPY BECAUSE THEY HAVE LOW TURNOUT.
AND SO THAT CREATES A LOT OF POTENTIAL DEVIATION IN OUR POLICYMAKING SYSTEM WHERE THERE CAN BE SPACES THAT ARE CREATED WHERE THE MEDIAN VOTER AND THEIR POLICY PREFERENCES ARE NOT BEING EXPRESSED BY OUR LEGISLATIVE INSTITUTIONS.
A SECOND STRUCTURAL CHALLENGE IS THAT FOR CERTAIN ISSUES, 24 MONTHS AND THE FACT THAT NOT ALL REPRESENTATIVES ARE UP AT THE SAME TIME, AS WELL AS THE FACT THAT WE DO NOT HAVE A WAY OF DIRECTLY ELECTING A SIGNIFICANT PART OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE LOCAL STATE, UH, BECAUSE OF A FORM OF GOVERNMENT, MEANS THAT FOR CERTAIN CHALLENGES IT CAN BE VERY QUICK, WHERE THE PREFERENCES OF THE MEDIAN VOTER ARE NOT REFLECTED BY THE ADMINISTRATIVE BUREAUCRACY OR THOSE THAT ARE ELECTED.
THE CHALLENGE IS THAT THIS REMEDY, WHICH HAS THIS AWESOME POWER TO COERCE EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE CITY INTO SOMETHING, NEEDS TO NOT BE UTILIZED BY NICHE AUDIENCES.
AND SO FROM A PERSPECTIVE OF HOW DO WE KNOW THAT WE'RE DOING IT, IT WOULD BE THE AVERAGE ELECTORATE THAT IS PASSING
[01:25:01]
SUCCESSFUL MEASURES IS VERY HIGH, AND MEASURES ARE TYPICALLY SUCCESSFUL.THOSE WOULD BE THE TWO OBSERVABLE MEASURES BY WHICH YOU WOULD KNOW IF TYPICALLY WE WILL HAVE 40 TO 60% VOTING ON PROPOSITION MEASURES AS OPPOSED TO OUR CURRENT AVERAGE, AND THEY'RE WINNING AT 80%.
YOU KNOW THAT THE MECHANISM IS BEING BOTH REPRESENTATIVE, RIGHT? AND ADVANCING THINGS THAT ARE POPULAR.
WE ARE LOSING BALLOT MEASURES IN MAZE ALL THE TIME.
AND THAT IS INDICATIVE OF, REGARDLESS OF THE MONEY INVOLVED OR THE POLICY ISSUES OF A SYSTEM THAT HAS BECOME VENUE SHOPPING FOR NICHE POLICY POSITIONS, THERE IS ONE ALTERNATIVE HAVING HEARD THE DIFFERENT POINTS THAT FOLKS HAVE MADE THAT IS AVAILABLE TO US.
AND IT GOES BACK TO YOUR POINT, AND THAT'S WHY I WAS SORT OF LIKE EYEBROW RAISE WHEN YOU SAID IT.
WE COULD LOCK UP CHARTER TO JUST BE POTUS.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE RESOLUTION THAT CREATED US, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WAS MENTIONED AS A FIRM PREFERENCE.
AND I HAVEN'T ADVOCATED IT BECAUSE WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT WANTING TO BE RESPONSIVE.
BUT AS WE HAVE THE DISCUSSION, MAYBE THE CHARTER IS SOMETHING WE WANNA SAY THAT IS VERY NOT HOT.
ONE DOWNSIDE IS SOME OF THE SMALL ADMINISTRATIVE CHANGES WE'LL HAVE TO WAIT COURT CHALLENGES, WHICH FROM TIME TO TIME SURFACE AND WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT, MAY HAVE TO WAIT AND THERE'S SOME DOWNSIDES, BUT IT IS CERTAINLY A WAY OF LOCKING UP THE CHARTER, OUR CONSTITUTION, TO THE HIGHEST TURN ON ELECTION AND SLOWING IT DOWN AND NOT MAKING A POLICY CHRISTMAS TREE.
THEN WHAT REMAINS IS HOW MUCH DO WE WANT TO WAIT? AND THERE'S A TRADE OFF.
REMEMBER, IN TERMS OF WHAT THIS TOOL IS FOR THE, THE SORT OF MISMATCH BETWEEN THE MEDIAN VOTER AND POLICY, ONE OF THE STRUCTURAL FLAWS IS THAT THEY HAVE TO WAIT.
AND SO YOU CAN THINK OF, I CAN THINK OF SCENARIOS, RIGHT? CLIMATE, EMERGENCY HOUSING, PRECARITY, PANDEMIC, WHERE IN THE SPAN OF A MONTH FOR REASONS THAT ARE HARD TO PREDICT, BUT SOME OF US HAVE EXPERIENCED THE MEDIAN VOTER JUST BECOMES VERY MISALIGNED WITH THEIR ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES, THE MECHANISMS TO ADDRESS THEIR AREN THERE.
AND SO IT BECOMES A QUESTION OF WHAT IS REASONABLE NOVEMBER ELECTIONS, UH, AS YOU, THAT ARE NOT MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTIONS ARE, DO NOT MEET MY STANDARD OF BEING INCLUSIVE, BUT THEY MAY BE THE PRAGMATIC BALANCE BETWEEN DELAY, UH, AND INCLUSION.
AND SO IF WE WERE TO LOCK UP CHARTER FOR POTUS, A DECISION WE COULD MAKE WITHOUT INCREASING THE INITIATIVE PETITION THRESHOLD AND JUST KEEPING IT AT 20 K AND NOT DOING THE CIRCUIT BREAKER, THE EASIEST THING MIGHT BE TO JUST SAY THE NEXT NOVEMBER.
AND I SUSPECT IF WE HAD A LOT OF INITIATIVES BECAUSE OF HOT TOPICS OR PRESSING NEEDS ON A NON MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTION, NOVEMBER, THE TURNOUT WOULD BE CLOSER TO THE TWENTIES AND THIRTIES.
UM, AT LEAST THAT'S MY, MY HOPEFUL, UH, TAKE ON IT.
THIS MIGHT BE SORT OF THE ELEGANT WAY OF SOLVING A BUNCH OF THE, ACHIEVING A BUNCH OF THE GOALS THAT HAVE BEEN SET AROUND THE TABLE.
WE DON'T INCREASE THE PETITION THRESHOLD, SO IT'S EASY TO ACCESS.
WE DON'T HAVE TO WAIT TOO, TOO LONG IN CASE THERE'S AN IMMEDIATE AND IMPORTANT TOPIC.
MOST OF THE TIME YOU'RE GONNA BE IN A MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTION SITUATION.
WE ARE PROTECTING THE CHARTER WITH ONLY A LIMITED DOWNSIDE FROM BEING A CHRISTMAS TREE COMMISSIONER.
UM, YES, I THOUGHT WE WERE TOLD THAT WE WERE NOT ALLOWED THAT LEGALLY IT WOULD NOT BE ADVISABLE TO RECOMMEND MOVING, UH, CHARTER ELECTIONS DE POTUS THAT WE WOULD BE GET SUED, SUED AND THAT WE WOULD LOSE.
UH, THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT, WHAT LEGAL TOLD US A COUPLE MEETINGS AGO, I KIND OF LOVED THE IDEA OF, OF PUSHING CHARTER DE POTUS AND DISENTANGLING THE TWO IN TIME AND THEN DOING AS WE WILL TO THE INITIATIVE PROCESS, HOWEVER WE DECIDE.
UM, BUT I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT THAT'S NOT AN OPTION.
MAY I? YES, I WAS GONNA, CYNTHIA, SORRY, CAROLYN, UH, YEAH, THAT'S CORRECT.
UH, WE CAN'T DO THAT BECAUSE THAT WOULD VIOLATE STATE LAW.
[01:30:01]
9 0 4, THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, IT SAYS IT'S ON THE NEXT UNIFORM ELECTION DATE OR THE EARLIER OF THE NEXT GENERAL MUNICIPAL DATE OR PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION DATE, WHICH FOR THE CITY, OUR GENERAL ELECTION DATES ARE EVERY, UH, NOVEMBER AND EVEN NUMBER OF YEARS.SO OUR ONLY CHOICE IS THE VERY NEXT ELECTION DATE THAT'S COMING UP, OR THE VERY NEXT MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTION DATE THAT'S COMING UP.
SO WE COULD NOT SKIP OVER LIKE A, LIKE A, LIKE A A 20, UH, YOU KNOW, A, A MID A GOVERNOR GOVERN GUBERNATORIAL ELECTION DATE BECAUSE THAT'S A GENERAL ELECTION DATE FOR THE CITY.
AND WE HAVE TO USE THE EARLIER OF THE TWO GENERAL ELECTION DATES, EITHER ONE THAT'S ON THE GUBERNATORIAL YEAR OR THE PRESIDENTIAL YEAR.
UH, COMMISSIONER MCG GN, DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO ADD? NO, I, I AGREE COMPLETELY WITH THAT STATEMENT.
I THINK, UM, IF I, IF I GAVE THE IMPRESSION OTHERWISE, I, I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT.
UM, MY ONLY POINT WAS, I, I DIDN'T THINK THAT THERE WAS A SCENARIO WHERE IT WOULD GET PUSHED TO A MAY.
OH, I DO ACTUALLY WANT TO ADD ONE ADDITIONAL THING SINCE I'VE BROKEN UP THE REST OF THE CONVERSATION.
UM, WITH REGARD TO LIKE THE POSSIBILITY OF A CIRCUIT BREAKER, LIKE THAT 50,000 NUMBER, UM, I THINK IT WOULD BE PROBABLY RARE TO GET THAT MANY SIGNATURES, BUT ONE REASON WHY 50,000 STOOD OUT TO ME WAS, YOU KNOW, AT, AT THE RISK OF LETTING AN ATTORNEY DO MATH, UM, I BELIEVE THAT THAT NUMBER IS A COMPARABLE PROPORTION OF, I LIKE HOW ALL THE ATTORNEYS SMILED AT THAT, UM, 50,000 TODAY IS A COMPARABLE PROPORTION OF THE POPULATION AS THE NUMBER OF SIGNATURES THAT, UH, WAS WERE ACQUIRED FOR THE SAVE OUR SPRINGS ORDINANCE.
AND SO IT HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE, AND I THINK IN ORDER FOR IT TO HAPPEN AGAIN, IT'S A HIGH ENOUGH NUMBER THAT IT WOULD HAVE TO BE SOMETHING SORT OF SIMILARLY EXISTENTIAL, WHICH I DON'T KNOW THE LEGENDS ABOUT SAVE OUR SPRINGS AND HOW IT GOT PASSED.
LIKE, THEY DEFINITELY MAKE IT SEEM EXISTENTIAL AND I ASSUME THAT'S IS HOW IT FELT AT THE TIME.
AND THAT'S NOT JUST, YOU KNOW, NOSTALGIA, HINDSIGHT, UM, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING LIKE, AND WE DIDN'T HAVE EXAMPLES WHEN WE MET THE OTHER DAY, BUT LIKE, I DON'T KNOW, WHAT IF ONE OF THE WATER PLANTS THAT AUSTIN WATER HAS, OR PUR, YOU KNOW, LIKE IT'S FAULTY AND THE COUNCIL DECIDES THAT THEY WANNA PRIVATIZE AUSTIN WATER, PROBABLY GET 50,000 SIGNATURES FOR THAT.
AND SO I THINK IT'S POSSIBLE AS A CIRCUIT BREAKER.
AND ON THE FLIP SIDE, WITH LIKE A CORPORATION JUST COMING IN AND BUYING 50,000 SIGNATURES, I MEAN, I'D SAY AT THAT PRICE, IT'D PROBABLY BE EASIER TO JUST GO IN AND BUY SOME, LIKE STATE LEGISLATION.
'CAUSE I MEAN, IF SOMEONE'S COMING IN, THEY DID MM-HMM.
AND SO, YEAH, I DON'T THINK THAT THAT MATERIALLY CHANGES OUR CIRCUMSTANCES.
'CAUSE AT THAT LEVEL OF MONEY, YOU CAN JUST GO IN AND BUY A STATE LAW ANYWAY.
COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, THIS IS JUST A COMMENT THAT WE SHOULD REMEMBER THAT OUR CURRENT MAYOR AND POSSIBLY MOST OF OUR CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS WERE ELECTED AT LOW TURNOUT ELECTIONS, NAMELY RUNOFFS.
SO YOU MAY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THESE LOW TURNOUT ELECTIONS, BUT IF THAT'S HOW WE ELECT OUR CITY COUNCIL, IS IT REALLY WRONG TO MAKE IT A DECISION ON A QUESTION THE SAME WAY? WELL, THAT'S WHAT THE VOTERS THINK SINCE THEY ADOPTED RANK CHOICE VOTING.
IT'S JUST THAT THE STATE, IT'S NOT IMPLEMENTED WELL, BUT WE ADOPTED IT.
SO THE PEOPLE OFTEN DISAGREE WITH THAT STATE.
WELL, AND THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO ELECT THEM IN HIGH TURNOUT ELECTIONS AND ALSO TO ONE AT A TIME.
COMMISSIONER MCGOVERN, GO AHEAD TO COMMISSIONER ALT MARINO'S POINT.
I THINK HE WAS PROMISING THAT THE OBSERVATION ON SOME DISSATISFACTION WITH HAVING COUNCIL MEMBERS WHO HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW, THEY CONFIRMING THEIR VICTORY TO RUN OFF ELECTION, THAT BEING A LOW TURNOUT.
AND SO ERGO YOU MAY NEED A STRUCTURE, LIKE A BALLOT INITIATIVE THAT WOULD BE DECIDED YES OR NO ON THAT ONE DAY, A HIGH TURNOUT DAY TO PUSH BACK AGAINST SOMEBODY WHO, AS A RESULT OF WINNING IN A RUNOFF MAY NOT BE AS REPRESENTATIVE OF THEIR CONSTITUENTS AS WOULD OTHERWISE HAVE BEEN THE CASE.
ARE WE TALKING ABOUT RECALL ELECTIONS? NO.
WELL, I, WELL, I, I DON'T KNOW.
WE HAVEN'T EVEN GOTTEN INTO THE TOPIC OF REFUND.
BUT JUST WITH RESPECT TO INITIATIVES, I THINK RECALL HAS A STATE PROVISION.
SO IN TERMS OF DRAFTING THE REPORT,
IF WE WANT TO KEEP THE STATUS QUO,
[01:35:01]
WE CAN KEEP THE STATUS QUO, BUT AS A GROUP, WE WILL NEED TO VOTE ON SOME OPTIONS.IF WE ACCEPT 730 DAYS, MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTION, CAN'T SKIP IT, THAT SORT OF, YOU CAN LOCK IT UP FOR POTUS.
THESE ARE THE CONSTRAINTS WE'RE BEING GIVEN.
20 K IS HARDWIRED, WE KIND OF HAVE LIMITED CHOICES IF WE WANT TO CHANGE HOW MANY PEOPLE TYPICALLY PARTICIPATE IN THE LIKELY SUCCESS RATE.
AND I'M NOT GETTING A SENSE OF, OF DIRECTION, UH, IN TERMS OF DRAFTING THE RECOMMENDATION.
I MEAN, I THINK PEOPLE DID, GENERALLY, WHO SPOKE DID GENERALLY EXPRESS A PREFERENCE FOR NOVEMBER ELECTIONS, RIGHT? YES.
THE, THE ISSUE IS THAT IF WE MAKE GENERAL, NO, THERE'S WAYS TO DO THAT.
AND SO THE MAIN CONSEQUENCE OF THAT WOULD BE THAT YOU WOULD HAVE POTENTIALLY LESS FREQUENT CHARTER ELECTIONS, WHICH TO MY MIND IS NOT A BAD THING.
I CAN'T, ALTHOUGH THERE MAY BE AN EMERGENCY BALLOT INITIATIVE, SO LONG AS WE KEEP THE CHARTER GENERALLY STRUCTURED WITH THE SUBSTANCE IT HAS.
I MEAN AN ORDINANCE MAY BE, BUT YES.
SO I THINK THERE'S A, THERE'S AGREEMENT WE SHOULD REQUIRE.
WE SHOULD REQUIRE WHENEVER AVAILABLE TO THE APPROPRIATE ORDINANCE, UH, CHARTER AMENDMENT LANGUAGE, LET'S, UH, HAVE CHARTER VOTES HAPPEN ON MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTIONS.
WE CAN'T GUARANTEE IT FOR REASONS THAT WE HAVE DISCUSSED, BUT WE SHOULD AIM FOR IT AS A PREFERENCE.
AND I THINK THERE'S AGREEMENT ON THAT.
IF THAT IS THE CASE, THEN THERE'S A SEPARATE DECISION ABOUT INITIATIVES.
AND ADDITION IS WE COULD DO SOON AS NOVEMBER, OR WE COULD DO MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTION NOVEMBER.
IT SEEMS IT BOILS DOWN TO, AND SO I'M TRYING TO GET A SENSE OF ASSUMING WE WANT TO TRY AND LOCK UP THE CHARTER ELECTIONS FOR MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTION PREFERRED, BUT NOT GUARANTEED.
DO WE WANT TO SAY EARLIEST NOVEMBER OR MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTION NOVEMBER AND THE TRADE OFF IS WAITING.
SO YOU, YOU SORT OF WAIT FOR TURNOUT COMMISSIONER JONES? YEAH, PERSONALLY, I WOULD SAY THE EARLIEST MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTION.
AND I ALSO WOULD SAY, I, I THINK THAT THIS COMES INTO, AND NOT TO CONFLATE THESE, AND MAYBE WE JUST WANT TO GET AGREEMENT ON THAT, THAT OR SOME SORT OF, I ALSO JUST WANTED TO RAISE THOUGH, UM, IF WE SET THE, UH, BALLOT INITIATIVES, UH, SIGNATURE TOTAL HIGHER THAN THE CITY CHARTER, UM, AMENDMENT SIGNATURE TOTAL, THEN IT'S GONNA INCENTIVIZE PEOPLE TO THEN GO THE CITY CHARTER AMENDMENT ROUTE, WHICH IS GOING TO BE LESS REGULATABLE.
WE CAN'T KEEP THAT TO EVERY OTHER NOVEMBER WHERE THERE'S GOING TO MUNICIPAL ELECTIONS.
SO I JUST WANNA RAISE THAT AS A POINT THAT THAT PLAYS INTO THIS AS WELL.
I JUST WANTED TO ADD, UM, I KNOW IT'S COMING UP ON THE AGENDA, BUT YOU KNOW, WE DO HAVE A SURVEY OUT, UM, NOW, AND I THINK THAT AS, AS MUCH AS I WANNA MOVE ON AND, YOU KNOW, START FORMULATING AND DRAFTING THE REPORT, I ALSO THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO, WE NEED TO KIND OF WEIGH WHEN WE GET SOME OF THE SURVEY, I THINK THERE MIGHT BE SOME MORE DISCUSSION THAT NEEDS TO OCCUR AFTER WE GET THE SURVEY RESULTS BACK.
UM, THAT'S KIND OF MY SUGGESTION, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW EVERYONE ELSE FEELS ABOUT THAT.
I, THAT WAS ON OUR AGENDA TO DISCUSS.
UM, BUT THAT IS A VERY VALID POINT.
UH, COMMISSIONER MC, EXCUSE ME, MC BANNON
UM, SO, UH, JUST AGAIN, SORT OF TO TO BACKGROUND ON THIS, UM, I, YOU KNOW, COMING INTO THIS COMMISSION AFTER BEING APPOINTED, I THOUGHT, I FELT ONE WAY I THOUGHT, I FELT, YOU KNOW, VERY STRONGLY IN FAVOR OF RAISING THESE THRESHOLDS BECAUSE THE OUTCOME I WANTED IS FEWER, FEWER BALLOT INITIATIVES, PARTICULARLY IN MAY.
UM, SOME OF THEM I WOULD ARGUE THAT WE'VE HAD, ARE NOT NECESSARY.
UM, AND I THINK SOME OF THEM WERE, WERE CONDUCTED POORLY AND, AND WITH NO TRANSPARENCY.
AND SO I THINK THAT THAT'S A PROBLEM AND THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO CHANGE.
BUT AFTER, AFTER THINKING ABOUT THE INCENTIVES TO COMMISSIONER COLE'S POINT, UM, AND AFTER, YOU KNOW, SPEAKING WITH A FEW PEOPLE WHO HAVE WORKED ON THESE PETITIONS, 'CAUSE I, I HAVEN'T IN MYSELF INITIATED PETITION.
UM, I'VE, I THINK I COLLECTED SIGNATURES LIKE SIX OR SEVEN YEARS AGO OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
UM, I KNOW I COLLECTED SIGNATURES, BUT, UM, I FORGET WHAT SPECIFICALLY WHAT,
[01:40:01]
WHETHER THAT WAS VALID INITIATIVE OR WHAT, UM, YOU KNOW, AND KIND OF TO COMMISSIONER GREENBERG'S POINT 20,000 IS A HARD NUMBER TO GET.UM, SO THAT'S KIND OF WHERE I AM AND WHY I AM UNDECIDED ON THESE THINGS, BECAUSE I THINK THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO, TO NOT OVERWHELM VOTERS, TO NOT, UM, NOT FORCE AN ELECTION THAT'S NOT GONNA BE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE PEOPLE OF AUSTIN.
UM, BUT ALSO I, I AM A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT THE FACT THAT IT INCENTIVIZES POTENTIALLY CHARTER AMENDMENTS OVER OTHER, YOU KNOW, MORE DIRECT POLICY OPTIONS, UM, AND MORE WORKABLE POLICY OPTIONS.
UM, AND ALSO DEPENDING ON THE TIMING AND WHY THAT'S, THIS IS PART OF WHY THAT MECHANIC IS SO IMPORTANT.
UM, YOU KNOW, WE COULD BE THE, THE, EVEN THE EVEN YEAR NOVEMBER ELECTIONS, THE BALLOTS ARE ALREADY PRETTY LONG, RIGHT? A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T VOTE ALL THE WAY DOWN THE BALLOT.
AND IF WE'RE ADDING, IF WE'RE, ESPECIALLY IF WE'RE MAKING PEOPLE WAIT, IF THERE'S, YOU KNOW, ANY URGENT ISSUE, UM, POTENTIALLY THAT'S GONNA BE EVEN LONGER.
IT COULD BE ANOTHER, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT ANOTHER 13 OR 14 BALLOT INITIATIVES AND THEN WE'RE THE, THE ADVANTAGE THAT WE GAIN OF A MORE, UM, OF A MORE REPRESENTATIVE ELECTORATE, IT'S, IT DECREASES A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE NOT EVERYBODY'S GONNA VOTE DOWN THE BALLOT.
UM, YOU KNOW, NOT EVERYBODY CERTAINLY IS GOING TO TO DECIDE ON THESE THINGS BEFORE THEY GO IN AND GET ALL THE INFORMATION.
ALL OF THIS IS TO SAY, I DON'T KNOW RIGHT?
BUT I DO THINK I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER LASH THAT THAT THAT PUBLIC INPUT IS REALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE SO FAR JUST, YOU KNOW, SPEAKING WITH A FEW PEOPLE AND, AND HEARING SOME OF THEIR INPUT ON THIS HAS CHANGED MY, MY POSITION ON IT A LITTLE BIT.
I, I THINK WE'VE DEFINITELY IDENTIFIED THE MONKEY'S PAW OUT OF WHICHEVER OPTION THAT YOU GO WITH, RIGHT? THERE'S GONNA BE A CONSEQUENCE THAT WAS UNINTENDED AND IS PROBABLY NOT GONNA BE WHAT EVERYBODY WANTS, RIGHT? SO IT'S JUST WHICH ANGLE OR WHICH TRADE OFF ARE YOU MORE WILLING TO ACCEPT, RIGHT? AS YOURSELF AS A COMMISSIONER, I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE EACH HAVE TO WRESTLE WITH IS WHETHER RAISING THAT PETITION NUMBER IS GOING TO HAVE THAT CONSEQUENCE, OR WHETHER INCENTIVIZING MORE CHARTER AMENDMENTS, WHETHER THAT'S THE, THE ROUTE YOU'RE GONNA GO WITH, BUT IT'S ONE OF THE OTHER TWO, ONE OF THE TWO IS GONNA HAVE TO HAPPEN HERE.
SO I THINK THAT WE SHOULD HOLD OFF, I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER LASH AND COMMISSIONER, UH, COMMISSIONER VAN MANON, THAT, UH, WAITING FOR SOME MORE, UM, PUBLIC INPUT, UM, WOULD HELP ME CERTAINLY COME UP WITH SOMETHING BECAUSE EVERYBODY'S MADE, YOU KNOW, REALLY, REALLY GOOD CASES ON BOTH SIDES AS TO THE DISINCENTIVES AND, AND INCENTIVES AS TO, YOU KNOW, EACH, EACH DECISION.
SO, UM, I'M OKAY, UM, REVISITING THIS AT OUR NEXT, UM, MEETING.
UH, AT THAT POINT, THE OUTREACH TEAM HOPEFULLY CAN, UH, HAVE SOME INPUT AND, UH, BE ABLE TO SHARE THAT WITH THE, WITH THE, THE, THE WHOLE BOARD, THE SURVEY ON THE OUTREACH.
DON'T ASK ABOUT THIS SPECIFIC CONUNDRUM.
IT ASKS MORE WHEN DO YOU GO BIG PICTURE QUESTIONS.
YEAH, IT DOESN'T, I'D ASK MORE BIG PICTURE QUESTIONS, BUT I THINK IT HAS SOME, WE'LL HAVE SOME GOOD INFORMATION FOR AT LEAST AS WE'RE ARRIVING TO A DECISION TO CONSIDER.
YEAH, I DON'T THINK WE WERE SPECIFIC.
LIKE WE, WE KINDA DID THAT ON PURPOSE.
WE DIDN'T ASK A, WE WERE, WE WERE ADVISED NOT TO ASK A BLACK AND WHITE QUESTION ABOUT YES OR NO.
DO YOU AGREE WITH, YOU KNOW, UH, WHAT WE'RE, WHAT WE WERE TASKED WITH, WE WERE ASKED, YOU KNOW, I CAN'T REMEMBER WHO, UM, HAD ADVISED US THAT WE NEED TO ASK MORE GENERAL QUESTIONS.
WE'RE ALSO GOING, WELL, ARE WE MOVING OFF FOR THE NEXT ITEM? COMMISSIONER MCGOVERN? I, YEAH, I JUST, I HAD A QUESTION I THINK WILL BE A QUICK ONE IN TERMS OF DIRECTION AND I, I APPRECIATE THE NEED FOR THAT.
UM, IS THERE ANYONE HERE AS WE SIT HERE NOW, WHO HAS A STRONG FEELING IN FAVOR OF DOING ANY OF THESE ELECTIONS IN AN ODD NUMBERED NOVEMBER? NOBODY'S SAYING THAT, RIGHT? IT'S NOT OKAY.
IT'S NOT THAT I PREFER THE ODD ELECTIONS, IT'S JUST I DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF SOMEONE HAVING TO WAIT 23 MONTHS OR 20 MONTHS.
SO THERE IS A, A LARGE GENERAL CONSENSUS IN FAVOR OF E MEMBER NOVEMBERS.
OKAY, SO WHAT WERE, WHAT COUNCIL COMMISSIONER ALTA MORENO, WHAT WERE THE OTHER POINTS OF LINGERING AMBIGUITY? I, I THINK THE BODY HAS RELATIVE CONSENSUS ON WANTING TO PROTECT CHARTERS FROM MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTIONS WELL, AND WANTING TO MOVE TOWARDS NOVEMBER.
AND THE BIG CALL TO MAKE IS EARLIEST NOVEMBER OR MG NOVEMBER.
I DON'T SEE ANYONE MAKING A CASE FOR INCREASING THE PETITIONS ALSO.
SO I ACTUALLY THINK THIS BODY'S VERY CLOSE, AND SO WE CAN, I'M HAPPY TO VISIT IT
[01:45:01]
FOR THREE MORE TIMES.UH, IT MAY BE USEFUL GIVEN WHERE THE CONSENSUS SEEMS TO BE GOING TO EVERYBODY TO CHECK IN WITH HER APPOINTER.
I THINK WE'RE READY TO TABLE THIS ONE.
UM, AND WE'LL COME BACK AND REVISIT, EVERYONE'S GONNA SEEK SOME GUIDANCE SLEEP ON IT, AND THEN WE'LL COME BACK AND, UM, HAVE A, ANOTHER DISCUSSION.
IT LOOKS LIKE, UH, AGENDA ITEM, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FOUR, DISCUSSION OF POSSIBLE SECTION.
MR. CHAR, WE ALREADY, WE ALREADY TOUCHED ON THAT, MR. SORRY.
UM, I NEED TO PIGGYBACK WITH THE RECALL ITEM ON ITEM THREE.
SO IF WE COULD OH, YES, THAT'S RIGHT.
UM, I'LL, I'LL TRY TO KEEP IT QUICK.
I KNOW WE HAVE, UM, SEVERAL OTHER ITEMS ON OUR AGENDA.
UM, AS IF, IF YOU LOVE REPRESENTATION AND ACCOUNTABILITY IN OUR GOVERNMENT AT ALL LEVELS, LIKE I FEEL LIKE I DO, UM, THEN OUR CURRENT RECALL RULES SHOULD GIVE YOU A, A SICK FEELING IN THE PIT OF YOUR STOMACH.
UM, WE'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, WE, THE BACKGROUND AS WE HEARD AT OUR LAST MEETING, UM, THE THRESHOLD IS 10% PER DISTRICT AND ACROSS THE CITY FOR THE MAYOR.
UM, THIS IS A HUGE VULNERABILITY FOR ABUSE.
I, I FEEL BECAUSE THAT, THAT THRESHOLD WAS NEVER UPDATED WHEN WE MOVED TO SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS, WHICH ARE MUCH SMALLER THAN THE SIZE OF THE CITY, OBVIOUSLY IN AN AT LARGE DISTRICT.
UM, WE'LL GET TO THAT IN JUST A SECOND.
AND I HAVE A TABLE IN THERE OF WHAT 10% IS, IT VARIES WIDELY ACROSS DISTRICTS.
UM, AND IT VARIES WIDELY FROM THE NUMBER THAT WOULD BE, FOR EXAMPLE, WHAT THE, AT LARGE COUNCIL MEMBERS WOULD'VE FACED FOR A RECALL.
UM, REAL QUICK, IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE WORST CASE SCENARIO HERE, SOMEONE, WE ALSO DON'T HAVE A RESIDENCY REQUIREMENT TO INITIATE THESE.
CAROLINE, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO JUMP IN, IN, IF I'M MISREMEMBERING YOUR, YOUR INFORMATION FROM LAST TIME.
UM, WE, WHICH IMPLIES THAT SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T LIVE IN AUSTIN POTENTIALLY HAS NEVER BEEN TO AUSTIN UNTIL THEY WANTED TO DO A, A POT A RECALL PETITION, COULD DENY A DISTRICT THEIR REPRESENTATION ON COUNCIL, BECAUSE EVEN IF THAT RECALL'S NOT SUCCESSFUL, WELL, IF THE RECALL'S NOT SUCCESSFUL, WE'LL STAY THERE.
BUT IF THE RECALL VOTE IS SUCCESSFUL, IF THEY'VE GOT THE MONEY TO, TO GET THE CANVASSERS, AS WAS KIND OF POINTED OUT IN, IN THE LAST DISCUSSION, IF THEY'VE GOT THE MONEY TO GET THE CANVASSERS, TO GET THE SIGNATURES, THAT COULD HAPPEN.
ESPECIALLY WHEN, FOR EXAMPLE, IN DISTRICT FOUR, IT'S LESS THAN 4,000 PEOPLE.
IT'S LESS THAN 4,000 SIGNATURES, RIGHT? UM, SO THAT'S THE WORST CASE SCENARIO IS THAT SOMEONE WHO IS NOT IN AUSTIN COULD POTENTIALLY DENY REPRESENTATION TO PEOPLE IN AUSTIN.
IF THE RECALL IS SUCCESSFUL, AND MAYBE CAROLINE OR, OR MIRNA CAN, UM, DISCUSS SORT OF THE PROCESS OF THAT, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE RECALL VOTE WOULD HAPPEN AND THEN THERE WOULD BE A SPECIAL ELECTION CALLED, UM, BUT THERE'S A PERIOD OF TIME IN THERE WHEN THAT DISTRICT WOULD NOT HAVE REPRESENTATION.
WOULD YOU SAY THAT THAT'S ACCURATE? LOOKS LIKE CAROLINE'S NODDING YES.
SO BASICALLY EXACTLY AS YOU STATED, THEY WOULD HAVE THE RECALL ELECTION AND IF IT, IF THE PERSON WAS INDEED REMOVED FROM OFFICE, THEN, UM, CITY, THE CITY HAS TO HOLD THE ELECTION TO FILL THAT RESULTING VACANCY WITHIN 120 DAYS.
AND A LOT OF TIMES THEY WOULD, I THINK, ACT AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE FOR THAT VERY REASON.
UM, AND, UM, BECAUSE THAT'S A CONSTITUTIONALLY REQUIRED ELECTION, IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE ON A UNIFORM ELECTION DAY, BUT THE QUICKEST THEY CAN ORDER IT IS 62 DAYS OUT.
SO IF THEY ORDER THE ELECTION, IT CANNOT BE HELD EARLIER THAN 62 DAYS AFTER THAT ORDER.
SO AS, SO THERE WOULD BE BASICALLY AT LEAST TWO MONTHS WHERE THEY WOULD GO WITHOUT REPRESENTATION AND, AND POSSIBLY DOUBLE THAT.
AND THEN OF COURSE, THERE HAS TO BE A RUNOFF ELECTION THAT ADDS USUALLY ABOUT AN EXTRA 30 TO 40 DAYS.
UM, IMAGINE THAT IN THOSE 60 DAYS, IMAGINE THAT IT'S OVER THE BUDGET DEBATE.
IMAGINE THAT IT, THAT IT COVERS, UM, FOR EXAMPLE, LAND USE QUESTIONS, RIGHT? SOMETHING THAT, THAT DISTRICTS NEED DIRECT REPRESENTATION ON COUNCIL TO ADVOCATE FOR THEM TO GET THEM THE RESOURCES THEY NEED IN THE BUDGET TO REPRESENT THEIR, THEIR, UM, SPECIFIC DISTRICT IN THAT LAND USE DEBATE.
UM, TO ME THAT'S PRETTY SCARY THAT WE WOULD DENY THAT REPRESENTATION TO ANY DISTRICT, BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT RECALL EXISTS, AND I DO THINK IT'S AN IMPORTANT TOOL BECAUSE YOU COULD ALSO IMAGINE SCENARIOS IN WHICH, UM, AND THESE ARE PROBABLY THE MORE TYPICAL SCENARIOS IN WHICH PEOPLE WITHIN THAT DISTRICT DO FEEL LIKE THEIR REPRESENTATION IS LACKING, SUCH THAT IT'S ACTUALLY CAUSING, UM, A PROBLEM THAT THEY CAN'T WAIT TO THE NEXT ELECTION TO CORRECT.
SO, YOU KNOW, DERELICTION OF DUTY, PERHAPS SOMEONE'S ARRESTED, RIGHT?
CAROLINE, UH, I, I JUST WANTED TO MENTION AS WELL, IN ANTICIPATION OF THIS QUESTION, UM, A AN INDIVIDUAL WHO'S BEEN RECALLED DOES NOT HOLD OVER.
[01:50:01]
CONTINUE TO SERVE.THEY ARE OFF OF COUNSEL, AND COUNSEL CANNOT LIKE APPOINT SOMEONE IN THE INTERIM.
SO THIS CAN REMAIN, AS YOU NOTED, UH, YOU KNOW, THAT DISTRICT WOULD REMAIN WITHOUT REPRESENTATION FOR THAT TIME PERIOD.
AND, AND YOU KNOW, THAT IN ITSELF IS, IS THE ISSUE THAT I'M TRYING TO, TRYING TO, TO POINT OUT TO IS THAT THAT REPRESENTATION, THAT LACK OF REPRESENTATION, I FEEL LIKE IS A SIGNIFICANT PROBLEM.
NOW, AGAIN, I'M NOT TRYING TO SAY THAT WE SHOULD, MY RECOMMENDATION ISN'T GET RID OF RECALLS, RIGHT? UM, BUT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS SYSTEM CAN'T BE ABUSED.
UM, I ALSO FEEL THAT GIVEN THE OTHER TOOLS FOR DIRECT DEMOCRACY THAT WE HAVE IN AUSTIN, AND I'M NOT HEARING ANYONE SUGGEST THAT WE, YOU KNOW, COMPLETELY REMOVE BALLOT INITIATIVES OR, OR REFERENDUMS, UM, FROM AS TOOLS IN THAT TOOLBOX.
UM, BUT RECALLS SHOULD BE THE LAST RESORT.
AND RIGHT NOW WE HAVE SUCH LOW THRESHOLDS FOR COUNCIL MEMBERS, UM, IN SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS THAT IT'S VULNERABLE TO ABUSE, I BELIEVE.
UM, I THINK YOU HAD YOUR HAND UP.
SO IF THE PETITION IS VALID, THEY'RE OFF, OR THEY HAVE THE, I THOUGHT THEY HAVE THE OPTION TO RESIGN, AND THEN THERE'S A, AN ELECTION UNTIL THE ELECTION, AREN'T THEY STILL ON THE COUNCIL? SO IF THEY DON'T RESIGN, THERE WOULD BE REPRESENTATION UNTIL THEY'RE, UNTIL THE RECALL ELECTION, UNTIL THEY LOSE THE RECALL ELECTION, AND THEN SOMEONE HAS TO RUN AGAINST THEM, RIGHT? IN A RECALL ELECTION? NO.
OR IT'S JUST YES OR NO RECALL, IT'S YES OR NO RECALL, AND THEN I BELIEVE IN A SPECIAL ELECTION.
SO THAT CLARIFIES THAT IN MY MIND.
BUT THE OTHER QUESTION IS, WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF AUSTIN ARE DENYING PEOPLE INSIDE OF AUSTIN THE RIGHT TO REPRESENTATION? IS IT BECAUSE YOU THINK SOME CALIFORNIA COMPANY THAT RUNS THE TRANSPORTATION, UM, APP HAPPENS TO PAY TO COLLECT THE SIGNATURES, BUT STILL THOSE SIGNATURES ARE FROM PEOPLE IN AUSTIN? I MEAN, IF YOU, IF YOU HAVE THE CANVASSERS, HONESTLY, YOU CAN GET THE SIGNATURES, BUT THE INITIATION IS COMING FROM, IN THAT CASE, SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T EVEN LIVE IN AUSTIN, SOMEONE WHO IS NOT REPRESENTED BY THAT COUNCIL MEMBER.
IN THAT IN ITSELF, I THINK THAT'S A PROBLEM.
UM, BECAUSE A SUCCESSFUL RECALL, WHICH TO BE FAIR, WOULD BE PUT TO A VOTE, UM, BY, YOU KNOW, BY THAT DISTRICT AND THOSE REP THOSE, UM, CITIZENS, EVEN IF IT'S AN UN OR SORRY, IF IT'S A SUCCESSFUL RECALL VOTE, THERE WOULD STILL BE A PERIOD IN WHICH THERE IS NO REPRESENTATION.
AND SO I HA I BELIEVE THAT THAT HAS TO BE TAKEN, UM, WITH GREAT CARE, GREAT SERIOUSNESS, AND THAT'S WHY RECALL SHOULD BE THE VERY LAST RESORT.
UM, THEY, WE SHOULD NOT INCENTIVIZE THE, THE USE OF RECALL OR THE, THE INITIATION OF THOSE PETITIONS, UM, BECAUSE THEY CAN BE ABUSED, RIGHT? I, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY I'M NOT SUGGESTING, AGAIN THAT WE REMOVE RECALLS.
AND SO I'M ACCEPTING THAT, THAT AT SOME POINT IN THAT PROCESS FOR A SUCCESSFUL RECALL, THERE WILL BE A LACK OF REPRESENTATION.
UM, BUT I ALSO BELIEVE THAT THAT CAN BE GAMED RIGHT NOW, RIGHT? AND SO THERE'S, THERE'S GOTTA BE, THERE'S GOTTA BE PROTECTIONS FOR THAT PROCESS AND PROTECTIONS FOR THAT REPRESENTATION, UM, THAT, THAT WE CAN PUT INTO PLACE.
BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, AGAIN, I FEEL LIKE THERE ARE VULNERABILITIES.
I I FEEL LIKE PEOPLE FROM OUTSIDE AUSTIN WHO'VE NEVER, YOU KNOW, WHO AREN'T REPRESENTED IN, IN THAT DISTRICT, WHO ARE NOT PART OF THAT DISTRICT, UM, CAN ABUSE THAT SYSTEM.
THE RECALL VOTE IS DEFINITELY A VOTE OF THE CITIZENS AND NOT OUTSIDERS.
AND WE SHOULD REMEMBER THAT THAT, UM, IS THE CASE.
THE OTHER IS THAT THERE'S NEVER BEEN A SUCCESSFUL RECALL PETITION IS WHAT WE WERE TOLD LAST MONTH.
IT DOESN'T HAPPEN ALL THE TIME OR SO FAR AT ALL.
I'M NOT SAYING IT CAN'T HAPPEN, AND I HEAR RUMBLINGS, UM, IN THE BATHROOM LAST THURSDAY, UM,
SO WE'RE NOT SURPRISED WHEN IT EVENTUALLY HAPPENS, RIGHT? UM, AND, AND WE HAVE THOSE PROTECTIONS IN PLACE.
AND SO THAT'S WHERE I'M COMING FROM WITH THIS, UM, BECAUSE AGAIN, WE ARE, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS, IS IN A SUCCESSFUL RECALL, THERE WOULD BE A DISTRICT WITHOUT DISTRICT LEVEL REPRESENTATION.
I THINK WE HAVE TO TAKE THAT SERIOUSLY AND MAKE SURE THAT THAT PROCESS IS PROTECTED FOR AUSTINITES WHO BELIEVE THAT THEY, THEY, THE, THE REPRESENTATION THAT THEY GET IS SO EGREGIOUSLY WRONG THAT THEY HAVE TO REMOVE THAT COUNCIL MEMBER BEFORE, WITHIN FOUR YEARS, RIGHT BEFORE THE NEXT ELECTION.
SO AGAIN, THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE I'M COMING FROM WITH THAT.
UM, YOU KNOW, I, I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR YOUR, YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE SERIOUS OF NOT, MAYBE I'M, YOU KNOW, MAYBE I'M BEING, I I'M CATASTROPHIZING, I DON'T KNOW, BUT I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR THAT.
UM, EITHER WAY, I DON'T THINK THAT WE SHOULD TAKE THAT LIGHTLY, AND I THINK THAT WE SHOULD PROTECT THAT.
[01:55:01]
SO FOR THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT, THAT I'M MAKING HERE, FIRST TWO ARE THE SAME AS, UM, AS THE FIRST TWO OF THE PETITIONS GROUP.AND SO A NOTICE OF INTENT WITH ALL THE SAME REQUIREMENTS, THE ONLY SLIGHT DIFFERENCE IN THAT IS THAT OBVIOUSLY THE FIVE INDIVIDUALS WOULD NEED TO BE, UM, OH, I HAVE A TYPO.
THEY DON'T HAVE TO SING, THEY HAVE TO SIGN.
UM, THE, THE FIVE INDIVIDUALS ON THAT NOTICE OF INTENT WOULD NEED TO BE RESIDENTS OF THAT DISTRICT IF THEY'RE TRYING TO RECALL THE COUNCIL MEMBER IN RESIDENTS BOSTON, IF THEY'RE TRYING TO RECALL THE MAYOR.
UM, AND I, I, YOU KNOW, THAT SEEMS TO ME LIKE SUCH COMMON SENSE THAT, THAT I, I'M OPEN TO HEARING ALTERNATIVES TO THAT, BUT THAT'S PROBABLY THE THING I FEEL MOST STRONGLY ABOUT IN ALL OF THESE DISCUSSIONS.
UM, AND THEN THEY WOULD HAVE TO USE STANDARDIZED PETITION FORMS, AGAIN, SAME AS AS THE PETITIONS WORK GROUP.
I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT AS WELL FOR US AS A COMMISSION FOR COUNCIL TO BE ABLE TO PRESENT THIS TO THE PUBLIC, UM, AND FOR THE VOTERS TO UNDERSTAND IT, THAT WE PRESENT A COHESIVE PACKAGE OF REFORMS. AND I THINK STANDARDIZING THEM ACROSS TO THE EXTENT THAT WE CAN ACROSS PETITION TYPES IS, IS HELPFUL FOR ALL OF THOSE PURPOSES.
UM, SO THAT, AGAIN, THAT WAS PRETTY INTENTIONAL ON MY PART.
ALL RIGHT, LET'S GET TO THE THRESHOLDS.
UM, IN LOOKING AT WHAT SOME OTHER CITIES DO, FIRST OF ALL, 10% IS THE FLOOR, AS I UNDERSTAND IT IN STATE LAW.
UM, SOME CITIES, AS WE HEARD LAST TIME, LIKE EL PASO GO UP TO 50%.
UM, THE AVERAGE I BELIEVE OUT OF OUT OF TEXAS IS SOMEWHERE AROUND 30%.
UM, MAYBE A LITTLE LESS THAN THAT.
BUT THAT ALSO DOESN'T ACCOUNT FOR, UM, WHETHER THOSE DISTRICTS ARE AT LARGE OR WHETHER THEY ARE SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS AND THE POPULATION AND LIKE THE, THE, WHETHER THERE'S A PROCESS TO BE ABLE TO APPOINT AN INTERIM COUNCIL MEMBER.
SO THERE'S A LOT OF VARIANCE IN THERE.
UM, 50%, I'M GONNA SAY WOULD BE A LITTLE HIGH, RIGHT? THE ADVANTAGE OF 50%, THOSE IS, YOU COULD ALMOST ELIMINATE THE RECALL ELECTION.
I MEAN, I DON'T THINK BELIEVE WE CAN PER STATE LAW, BUT IT'S EFFECTIVELY A PROOF OF CONCEPT, RIGHT? IF YOU WERE AN ELECTED OFFICIAL, 50% OF THE VOTERS IN YOUR DISTRICT PRESENT YOU WITH A PETITION SAYING THEY WANT YOU OUT OF OFFICE, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NOT GONNA WIN THE RECALL ELECTION, RIGHT? AND SO IT EFFECTIVELY FORCES A RESIGNATION, MAYBE NOT FORCES, THERE ARE IRRATIONAL POLITICIANS.
I'M SURE WE CAN ALL THINK OF EXAMPLES, BUT, UM, IT, IT, IT MAKES IT LIKELY IT INCENTIVIZES RE RESIGNATION OVER A RECALL ELECTION.
UM, HOWEVER, I THINK THAT THAT'S A LITTLE HIGH.
I THINK THE ADVANTAGE OF HAVING IT LESS THAN 50% IS THAT IT INCENTIVIZES A COUNCIL MEMBER TO LISTEN TO A GREATER GROUP OF THEIR CONSTITUENTS, RIGHT? BECAUSE YOU'RE, YOU'RE ESSENTIALLY WANTING TO MAKE, AT LEAST IF YOU LOOK AT THIS IN, IN SORT OF A, A NUMBERS ASPECT, YOU'RE ESSENTIALLY WANTING TO MAKE THE NUMBER OF CONSTITUENTS HAPPY, SUCH THAT IT'S LIKE THAT THRESHOLD MINUS ONE, RIGHT? AND SO THIS IS ALSO WHERE I'M COMING FROM, THAT IF YOU ARE ASKING PEOPLE TO MAKE 91% OF THEIR CONSTITUENTS HAPPY, BECAUSE THE 10% COULD IMMEDIATELY GET THEM OUT OF OFFICE, THAT'S UNREALISTIC, RIGHT? NO POLITICIAN IS GONNA BE ABLE TO MAKE 90% OF THEIR CONSTITUENTS HAPPY ALL OF THE TIME.
I, I, I HOPE THAT'S SELF-EXPLANATORY.
AND MAYBE THERE'S A WORLD WHERE THAT COULD HAPPEN.
UM, ESPECIALLY WITH CITY POLICY AND MUNICIPAL POLICY.
I THINK THAT THAT'S GONNA BE REALLY DIFFICULT FOR, FOR PEOPLE TO DO.
SO MY RECOMMENDATION ALSO JUST, I'LL, I'LL ADDRESS THE, THE TABLE HERE SO YOU CAN LOOK AT SOME OF THE DIFFERENCES.
UM, DISTRICT FOUR HAS THE FEWEST NUMBER OF QUALIFIED VOTERS.
UM, DISTRICT NINE HAS THE GREATEST NUMBER OF QUALIFIED VOTERS, AND THE DIFFERENCE IS ALMOST TWICE AS MUCH.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, I, I MADE AN ARGUMENT IN HERE THAT I THINK COULD BE, WE COULD BE PERSUADED OTHERWISE, BUT I THINK THERE IS A QUESTION OF WHETHER THAT ALSO LEADS TO, LEADS TO AN ISSUE OF ONE VOTE, ONE OR ONE PERSON, ONE VOTE, RIGHT? AND, AND THE ABILITY TO REPRESENT, SO IT TAKES LESS EFFORT POTENTIALLY IN DISTRICT FOUR TO RECALL SOMEBODY, EACH ONE OF THOSE VOTERS HAS A LITTLE BIT MORE POWER THEN, UM, THAN IT WOULD IN DISTRICT NINE.
YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT AN EASY PROBLEM TO SOLVE.
I'M NOT SURE THAT, THAT MY RECOMMENDATIONS DO SOLVE THAT.
I'M NOT SURE I'M UNDERSTANDING THAT PROBLEM CORRECTLY.
SO I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR FEEDBACK ON THAT AS WELL.
UM, SO 10%, IF I'M STARTING WITH THE, THE PRESUMPTION THAT 10% FOR COUNCIL DISTRICTS AND FOR COUNCIL MEMBERS, AND I AM GONNA SEPARATE COUNCIL MEMBERS AND SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS FROM THE MAYOR, UM, IS LOW, THEN, YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE ARRIVE AT A FAIR NUMBER, RIGHT? A FAIR NUMBER THAT THAT GIVES AUSTINITES THE REMAIN, SORRY, KEEPS THE RECALL AS A TOOL TO ACHIEVE BETTER REPRESENTATION, UM, WITHOUT IT, WITH A LESS POSSIBILITY OF, OF ABUSE.
UM, I HAVE ARRIVED, AT LEAST FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES AND CERTAINLY ALWAYS OPEN TO, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT PROPOSALS ON THIS, UM,
[02:00:01]
AT A 35% THRESHOLD, WHICH, UM, IF YOU LOOK AT THE, THE PERCENTAGE OF QUALIFIED VOTERS AND THE PERCENTAGE OF WHAT, 35 OF THAT WOULD, 35% OF THAT WOULD BE BOTH KIND OF ROUND UP TO 18,000.AND SO, BECAUSE OF THE PROBLEMS I WAS TALKING ABOUT EARLIER, MY THOUGHT WAS THAT IT COULD BE SORT OF LIKE CHARTER AMENDMENTS, EXCEPT IN THE OPPOSITE WAY IT WOULD BE THE GREATER OF 18,000 SIGNATURES OR, UH, 35%.
NOW, AGAIN, I, YOU KNOW, COMING UP WITH AN EXACT NUMBER FOR, FOR WHAT THAT THRESHOLD SHOULD BE, I THINK IS, IT'S OPEN TO A LOT OF DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION, AND I THINK THERE COULD BE MULTIPLE DIFFERENT SOLUTIONS TO IT.
AND SO I, I DEFINITELY WANNA HEAR SOME DISCUSSION ON THAT.
UM, I DON'T WANT IT TO BE AS ARBITRARY AS IT MAY SEEM, BUT I ALSO THINK THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE A GOOD JUSTIFICATION FOR THAT NUMBER, RIGHT? UM, IF IT'S NOT GOING TO BE AN ARBITRARY NUMBER, LET ME MAKE SURE THAT I ADDRESS ALL THAT.
I SUSPECT THAT THAT'S GONNA CAUSE SOME DISCUSSION AS I, I HOPE IT DOES.
UM, WE CAN TALK NOW ABOUT THE SIGNATURES THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED FOR MAYOR AS WELL.
IF YOU LOOK AT THAT 10%, THAT'S ALMOST 60,000 PEOPLE IN THE CITY OF AUSTIN, PERSONALLY, I THINK THAT TO, TO THE POINT THAT COMMISSIONER GREENBERG WAS MAKING, TO THE POINT THAT I'VE HEARD WHEN I'VE TALKED TO PEOPLE ABOUT 20,000 SIGNATURES, WHICH ARE HARD TO COLLECT, 60,000, THAT'S A WHOLE LOT MORE.
I ALSO BELIEVE THAT, YOU KNOW, EACH SIGNATURE, IT, IT COSTS A LOT MORE THAN JUST LIKE DOUBLING THE BUDGET, RIGHT? IT'S, IT'S, IF YOU'RE ACTUALLY LOOKING FOR 60,000 SIGNATURES WITHIN 180 DAYS, THAT'S GONNA BE A VERY DIFFICULT TASK ALREADY.
AND I DON'T BELIEVE, LIKE WE CAN'T GO BELOW 10, I DON'T THINK THAT WE SHOULD GO ABOVE 10.
HOWEVER, I DO BELIEVE THAT THOSE SIGNATURES SHOULD BE DISTRIBUTED AND COLLECTED MORE EQUITABLY ACROSS DISTRICTS BECAUSE AGAIN, THIS WAS WRITTEN WHEN WE HAD OUT LARGE DISTRICTS.
SO MY SUGGESTION IS THAT, YOU KNOW, 5% OF THOSE SIGNATURES HAS TO HAVE TO COME FROM EACH, UM, COUNCIL DISTRICT.
EACH OF THE 10, WHICH LEADS TO 50% OF THOSE SIGNATURES THAT ARE REQUIRED FOR RECALLING THE MAYOR.
THE OTHER 50% CAN COME FROM WHICHEVER DISTRICTS CONSTITUENTS FEEL MOST STRONGLY THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO RECALL THE MAYOR.
SO THOSE ARE THE, THE TWO PROPOSALS ABOUT THE, ABOUT THE THRESHOLDS.
UM, WE CAN DEFINITELY PAUSE HERE OR I CAN FINISH WHATEVER IF PEOPLE HAVE THOUGHTS AND WANNA JUMP IN.
COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, IT WAS OF COURSE A SPECIAL ELECTION, BUT 3,614 PEOPLE VOTED IN THE DISTRICT FOR ELECTION.
UM, AND TO REQUIRE 35% OF THE REGISTERED VOTERS SEEMS TOTALLY OUT OF PROPORTION WITH WHAT IT TAKES TO GET ELECTED.
I'VE SEEN SOME CITIES HAVE, THE THRESHOLD IS 20% OF THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO VOTED RATHER THAN SOMETHING THAT'S BASED ON THE NUMBER OF REGISTERED VOTERS BECAUSE, BUT THEN AGAIN, IT'S SOME COUNCIL DISTRICTS ARE HIGH TURNOUT AND SOME COUNCIL DISTRICTS ARE LOW TURNOUT, AND THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS.
SOME ARE HIGH TURNOUT AND SOME ARE LOW TURNOUT.
UM, BUT 35% OF THE REGISTERED VOTERS OR 18,000 IN COMING FROM ONE DISTRICT, I THINK IT'S PROBABLY NOT DOABLE.
AND IF THAT'S THE PURPOSE, YOU CAN PUT THAT ON THE BALLOT AND I THINK IT WILL LOSE.
I MEAN, I THINK WHAT NEEDS TO BE CONSIDERED ISN'T JUST WHAT THE PREFERENCES OF THE GROUP ARE, OR EVEN WHAT THE PREFERENCES OF THE APPOINTING MEMBERS ARE, BUT WHAT CAN GET PASSED WHEN IT'S PUT ON A BALLOT NEXT NOVEMBER, FEBRUARY? YEAH.
FURTHER THOUGHTS, OR SHOULD I MOVE ON? THERE'S ONLY A COUPLE MORE THINGS THAT I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ABOUT IT, SO.
UM, REALLY QUICK, I DO THINK THAT THERE HAS TO BE A LOT OF ACCOUNTABILITY.
IF YOU WERE TRYING TO, TRYING TO REMOVE A SITTING ELECTED OFFICIAL, MAKING THE DISTRICT VULNERABLE TO A LACK OF REP REPRESENTATION FOR SOME PERIOD OF TIME, PERIOD OF TIME, UM, I DO BELIEVE THAT THERE HAS TO BE ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ARE BEGINNING THAT PETITION.
UM, THAT'S WHERE THE NOTICE OF INTENT COMES IN.
I WOULD ALSO ARGUE THAT IF YOU ARE, IF YOU'RE LAUNCHING A RECALL, YOU ARE CAMPAIGNING AGAINST A POLITICIAN, YOU ARE FORCING THAT POLITICIAN IF THEY WANNA KEEP THEIR SEAT TO CAMPAIGN.
UM, AND SO RIGHT NOW, UM, THESE FOLKS ARE NOT REQUIRED, AS FAR AS I UNDERSTAND, TO SUBMIT A STATEMENT OF FINANCIAL INTEREST OR TO ABIDE BY CAMPAIGN FINANCE RULES WITHIN THE CITY OF AUSTIN.
I UNDERSTAND IT WOULD PROBABLY WORK A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY BECAUSE IF IT'S A PAC, THEY MIGHT ALREADY BE ABIDING BY THESE RULES.
UM, BUT I THINK THAT THAT SHOULD BE A REQUIREMENT IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE NOT BOUND BY THOSE RULES, THOSE CAMPAIGN FINANCE RULES.
BUT THE COUNCIL MEMBER THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO RECALL IS MEANING
[02:05:01]
THAT THERE ARE LIMITS ON HOW MUCH THEY CAN RAISE, UM, AND FROM WHERE THEY CAN RAISE IT WITHIN THE CITY.UM, TO ME IT SEEMS MUCH MORE FAIR TO AT LEAST HAVE THOSE RULES APPLY ALSO TO THE PEOPLE THAT ARE TRYING TO REMOVE THEM.
BECAUSE I BELIEVE IT IS A CAMPAIGN, AND WE MAY NOT CALL IT THAT, WE MAY JUST CALL IT PETITION OR CITIZEN INITIATIVE, BUT IN THIS CASE, IT IS A CAMPAIGN AGAINST ANOTHER POLITICIAN.
UM, AND THEN REALLY QUICK, THE LAST ONE, I I, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE WE'RE SEEING THIS ISSUE AND BECAUSE I BELIEVE THIS ISSUE IS A PROBLEM BECAUSE THIS HASN'T BEEN UPDATED SINCE PRE TEN ONE, I ALSO FEEL STRONGLY THAT THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT WE SHOULD REVISIT.
I'M SUGGESTING EVERY, FOR EVERY 10 YEARS.
UM, BUT WITH SOME FREQUENCY, RIGHT? BECAUSE WHATEVER WE DECIDE, IF WE DECIDE TO MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS ON THIS AND PUT AND GET THIS AND PRESENT IT TO COUNSEL, AND IF THEY DECIDE TO PUT IT ON THE BALLOT, THAT MAY NO LONGER BE THE, THE RIGHT WAY TO DO IT FOR FUTURE CITY OF AUSTIN.
UM, AND SO I DO BELIEVE THAT'S SOMETHING IMPORTANT TO, TO, UM, TO RECOMMEND THAT, THAT THERE BE SOME KIND OF, YOU KNOW, REQUIREMENT, KIND OF LIKE WITH REDISTRICTING, THERE'S SOME KIND OF REQUIREMENT TO REVISIT THAT.
UM, I DON'T HAVE THIS AS A RECOMMENDATION.
IT MAY BE A LITTLE BIT OUTSIDE OF THE, THE CALL OF THIS, THIS COMMISSION.
UM, BUT I ALSO BELIEVE THERE'S GOTTA BE ANOTHER WAY TO REMOVE COUNCIL MEMBERS.
IT CAN'T ONLY BE RECALLS AND THERE'S GOTTA BE A WAY TO APPOINT AN INTERIM COUNCIL MEMBER OR INTERIM MAYOR SHOULD IT BE A SUCCESSFUL RECALL OF THE MAYOR.
UM, WE, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, I FEEL STRONGLY THAT EVERY DISTRICT NEEDS DISTRICT LEVEL REPRESENTATION AND THEY NEED IT YEAR ROUND, RIGHT? AND SO IF THERE IS A 60 DAY PERIOD IN WHICH, UM, THERE IS NO REPRESENTATION, I BELIEVE THAT THAT'S DETRIMENTAL AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS.
AGAIN, I'M NOT MAKING SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATIONS ON THAT.
IT MAY BE OUTSIDE OF WHAT WE'RE, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.
UM, SO I WOULD JUST SUGGEST THAT FUTURE COMMISSIONS PLEASE ADDRESS THAT.
AND, AND PLEASE MAKE THAT A FOCUS OF WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT.
I DIDN'T ADDRESS THE SIX MONTH PERIOD.
THERE'S A COUPLE THINGS INVOLVED IN RECALLS I DIDN'T ADDRESS, INCLUDING THE, THE SORT OF HONEYMOON PERIOD AFTER THE PERSON TAKES OFFICE, THE SIX MONTHS IN WHICH YOU CANNOT INITIATE A RECALL PETITION.
IF I DIDN'T ADDRESS IT BASICALLY MEANS LIKE I DON'T HAVE A RECOMMENDATION TO CHANGE IT.
UM, AND THEN I DIDN'T ADDRESS SOME OF, YOU KNOW, THE TIMING.
SOME OF THAT'S ALSO REQUIRED, UM, OR A SPELLED OUT IN STATE LAW.
SO THERE'S NO POINT IN DISCUSSING SOME RECOMMENDATIONS THAT ARE NOT, YOU KNOW, POSSIBLE WITHIN STATE LAW.
THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE MY NOTES.
THOSE ARE THE RECOMMENDATIONS ON THE RECALLS WOULD VERY MUCH LIKE TO HEAR FEEDBACK PARTICULARLY ABOUT THE THRESHOLDS IN SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS.
UM, THAT I FEEL LIKE THAT'S A, THAT'S A STICKY SUBJECT.
AND WE'RE, I THINK WE'RE RUNNING INTO THAT WITH, WITH CITIZEN INITIATIVES AND BALLOT INITIATIVES TOO.
I THINK, UM, CITY, OUR CITY, UH, COUNCIL OR OUR, OUR LAWYER, IT HAS SOME
UM, I, I JUST WANTED TO MENTION ON ONE THING, UM, THE WAY WE FILL OUR VACANCIES ON CITY COUNCIL IS CONTROLLED BY THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION, AND WE DON'T HAVE ANY OPTIONS TO CHANGE IT.
IT HAS TO BE BY SPECIAL ELECTION WITHIN 120 DAYS.
UM, THE ONLY EXEMPTION OF THAT IS THERE'S, IF THERE'S LESS THAN A YEAR LEFT IN THEIR TERM, YOU CAN WAIT TILL THE NEXT ELECTION.
BUT THAT WOULD BE A LONGER TIMEFRAME.
SO THERE IS NO WAY TO HAVE AN INTERIM APPOINTMENT, UNFORTUNATELY.
I MEAN, I, I GET WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM AND I APPRECIATE THAT, BUT IT'S NOT SOMETHING WE COULD DO WITHOUT A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT ELECTION.
I, I, I THINK IT MAKES IT EVEN MORE IMPORTANT THAN FOR US TO PROTECT RECALLS, MAKE IT, MAKE SURE IT'S THE CITIZENS OF AUSTIN WHO ARE RECALLING THEIR OWN REPRESENTATIVES, BECAUSE THEN THERE IS NO WAY UNDER THE CURRENT STATE LAW AND STATE CONSTITUTION, UM, TO APPOINT REPRESENTATION.
SO WE CAN JUST STRIKE THAT FROM FUTURE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR FUTURE COMMISSIONS.
UH, COMMISSIONER MCGOVERN, UM, I WAS JUST GONNA POINT OUT, I THINK THAT THERE, THE 18,000 NUMBER WHERE IT'S 35% OR 18,000 MAY HAVE LED TO AN UNINTENDED RESULT, AT LEAST FOR LIKE DISTRICT FOUR.
'CAUSE THAT WOULD MEAN LIKE 47% OF QUALIFIED VOTERS.
TO THE EXTENT THAT THERE IS VALUE TO HAVING A RECALL ELECTION, I THINK WE SHOULD PROBABLY STRUCTURE IT SO IT IS EQUALLY AVAILABLE TO EACH DISTRICT.
I WOULD ALSO ARGUE THAT THERE ARE SOME DISTRICTS IN WHICH THERE ARE A, A HIGHER NUMBER OF RESIDENTS WHO ARE NOT QUALIFIED VOTERS.
AND THOSE RESIDENTS DESERVE REPRESENTATION TOO, EVEN THOUGH THEY MAY NOT BE ALLOWED TO VOTE FOR THAT REPRESENTATION BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT QUALIFIED VOTERS WELL, BUT YEAH.
BUT TO THAT POINT, I MEAN, AND I'M NOT, TO BE CLEAR, I'M NOT DEFENDING THE, THE 18,000 AS LIKE THIS IS WHAT I STRONGLY BELIEVE IT SHOULD BE.
AND IF THERE ARE BETTER SOLUTIONS, DEFINITELY OPEN TO THAT.
BUT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE, MAKE A SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATION THAT WE COULD REACT TO PRETTY MUCH.
YEAH, BUT I MEAN, I THINK, I MEAN, TO YOUR POINT ABOUT DISTRICT FOUR, FOR INSTANCE, HAVING A LARGER PERCENTAGE OF
[02:10:01]
RESIDENTS WHO ARE NOT QUALIFIED VOTERS, I THINK THAT'S FACTUALLY ACCURATE.AND EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT A QUALIFIED VOTER, YOU, I THINK YOU'RE, WHAT YOU SAID WAS YOU DESERVE REPRESENTATION.
UM, BUT THAT KIND OF CUTS BOTH WAYS.
'CAUSE I MEAN, WE'RE, I MEAN, WE'RE LOOKING AT A SCENARIO WHERE, YOU KNOW, IF, IF THERE IS A RECALL, IT MEANS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE WITHOUT REPRESENTATION FOR QUITE SOME TIME.
AND SO IT'S GONNA BE MORE ABOUT ELIMINATING BAD PEOPLE.
LIKE IF SOMETHING COMES TO LIGHT AND IT'S LIKE, OH, THIS PERSON'S ACTUALLY WAS A NAZI OR SOMETHING LIKE, I DON'T KNOW, JUST SOMETHING LIKE WHERE IT'S LIKE IT'S BETTER TO HAVE NO ONE THAN TO HAVE THAT PERSON.
UM, THEN THAT SHOULD BE EQUALLY AVAILABLE.
AND I THINK, I'M NOT CERTAIN THAT THIS IS TRUE, BUT I THINK, UM, YOU KNOW, IF YOU, IF YOU HAVE A GENERALLY DIFFUSE, I MEAN, IF, I GUESS I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THE POINT WOULD BE OF, OF HOW IT WOULD BE BETTER FOR DISTRICT FOUR, FOR INSTANCE, IF IT REQUIRED 47% OF THEIR REGISTERED VOTERS.
ALL VALID POINTS, RIGHT? UM, I, I FULLY AGREE THAT IT'S VALID POINTS AND I, I LIKE, I CAN'T REMEMBER IF I ACTUALLY INCLUDED THIS LANGUAGE, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT THAT WHAT THE SPECIFIC THRESHOLDS I'M PROPOSING ACTUALLY SOLVE THAT ISSUE.
UM, BUT THERE ALSO HAS TO BE SOMETHING THAT'S, THAT'S EQUITABLE AS OPPOSED TO EQUAL.
UM, AND RIGHT NOW I'VE GOT ROUGHLY EQUAL SMALL ATTEMPTED EQUITY IN, IN THE SLIGHTLY HIGHER THRESHOLDS WHERE THEY'VE GOT MORE VOTERS.
IT DOESN'T GIVE ANY, I'LL, I'LL JUST STOP THERE.
I, I AGREE THAT I DON'T THINK THIS IS THE PERFECT SOLUTION.
I WANTED TO PROPOSE SOMETHING FOR US TO REACT TO.
UM, AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'RE, THAT INSTITUTED.
I COULD SEE, UM, I COULD SEE SUPPORTING, BUT I VERY MUCH WANNA HEAR OTHER, OTHER RECOMMENDATIONS ON THAT.
SO I, I DON'T WANNA HOG THE MIC FOR TOO LONG.
SO I THINK THIS WOULD BE THE LAST THING I SAY ON THE TOPIC.
UM, COMPLETE SUPPORTER OF EQUITY OVER EQUALITY, BUT I'M NOT SURE HOW THAT APPLIES IN THIS SITUATION.
'CAUSE I THINK NORMALLY THOSE DISCUSSIONS, LIKE YOU ALREADY HAVE AN OUTCOME THAT YOU'VE DEEMED AS GOOD MORE EDUCATION, MORE FOOD ACCESS, MORE WHATEVER, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE GOOD THING IS.
AND THEN YOU COULD TALK ABOUT EQUITY BEING THE BETTER THING.
WHEREAS WITH RECALL ELECTIONS, WHETHER OR NOT YOU SHOULD HAVE ONE THAT IT'S SUCCESSFUL.
I MEAN, I THINK THERE'S NOT NECESS I DON'T, I DON'T THINK WE, WELL, WHATEVER, WHATEVER THAT PERCENTAGE IS, I'M NOT SURE WHY IT SHOULD BE DIFFERENT FOR ONE DISTRICT VERSUS ANOTHER, UNLESS IT LIKE TRANSLATES INTO MAKING IT LIKE MATERIALLY EASIER TO LIKE PULL DOWN YOUR ELECTED OFFICIAL, WHICH I THINK IS PROBABLY NOT TRUE BECAUSE THERE ARE FEWER PEOPLE, BUT YOU HAVE TO GO OUT AND FIND THEM, YOU KNOW? SO, I DON'T KNOW.
I THINK THE, UM, SCHEDULE THAT COMMISSIONER TNO PUT TOGETHER ABOUT THE, UM, ELECTIONS EVERY TWO YEARS IS REALLY HELPFUL TO KIND OF BREAK DOWN OUR DISCUSSION.
I THINK IT WOULD BE EQUALLY HELPFUL TO FURTHER THIS DISCUSSION WITH, UM, SOME OF THE DATA THAT I THINK WE KIND OF QUOTED, WHOEVER QUOTED, UM, LOOSELY ABOUT REGION, I'M SORRY, UM, DISTRICT FOUR AND JUST MAYBE AT THE NEXT MEETING, UM, WE CAN HAVE A BREAKDOWN OF, OKAY, THIS IS THE REGISTERED VOTERS, THIS IS WHAT THAT PERCENTAGE WOULD MAKE, AND I, UM, WOULD MEAN, OR WHAT THE 18,000, UH, HOW THAT RELATES TO THAT PARTICULAR DISTRICT.
I THINK THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL IN THIS DISCUSSION.
I, I WASN'T, UM, AT FIRST WHEN WE STARTED TALK, WHEN YOU STARTED TALKING, I WASN'T OPPOSED TO THE 35 UM, PERCENT, IN FACT THAT KIND OF HAD POPPED IN MY HEAD ALREADY.
BUT THEN PUTTING IT INTO PERSPECTIVE WITH DIFFERENT DISTRICTS, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO, UM, LOOK AT THAT HOLISTICALLY ACROSS THE CITY.
UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK THIS IS AN IMPORTANT TOPIC AND I'M GLAD THAT, THAT YOU KIND OF TOOK IT ON.
I THINK THAT WE NEED TO DO SOME INITIAL ADDITIONAL RESEARCH AND ALMOST MAKE IT A SEPARATE AGENDA ITEM.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S POSSIBLE, UM, BECAUSE I THINK IT HAS ITS OWN MERITS AND DATA THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT SEPARATE FROM SOME OF THIS OTHER SHALL COMMISSIONER DWYER? YEAH, I DON'T HAVE A A CLEVER ANSWER TO THE QUESTION OF THRESHOLD OR METHODOLOGY, BUT I JUST WANTED TO OFFER GENERALLY MY SUPPORT FOR THE IDEA THAT RECALL ELECTIONS SHOULD BE A TYPE OF CIRCUIT BREAKER ELECTION FOR REGULAR ELECTIONS AND, YOU KNOW, A REAL BREAK GLASS MOMENT FOR RESERVE FOR THE GEORGE SANTOS KIND OF SITUATIONS OF THE WORLD.
AND NOT BECAUSE WE DISAGREED WITH SOMEONE'S VOTE ON AN ISSUE OR BECAUSE WE WANNA RE-LITIGATE A SOUR GRAPES ELECTION.
UM, THAT SAID, WE ALSO DON'T WANNA OVERKILL, BUT IN GENERAL, I THINK A HIGHER THRESHOLD IS ARGUABLE.
UM, I JUST WANTED TO ALSO SAY THAT I'M, I'M, I REALLY LOVE THE IDEA OF MAKING SURE THAT THE PETITION COMES FROM PEOPLE IN THE DISTRICT.
THAT'S A PROVISION I WOULD LOVE TO SEE US RECOMMEND.
AND I, I CONCUR WITH ALL THOSE THOUGHTS AS WELL.
[02:15:01]
THANK YOU.AND ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON THAT? YEAH, I'M JUST LOOKING AT THE 2022 ELECTION TOTALS, AND IT LOOKS LIKE THIS THRESHOLD WOULD BE QUITE A BIT MORE THAN 50% IN, IN MOST OF THOSE SEC DISTRICTS, WHERE MORE THAN 50% OF THE TOTAL VOTERS IN EACH OF THOSE ELECTIONS.
SO I, I, I MEAN, I'M NOT OPPOSED TO RAISING THE TOTAL, BUT 35% STRIKES ME AS AS HIGH.
COMMISSIONER ANO, I BELIEVE, UH, YOU, UH, HAVE ALREADY TOUCHED BRIEFLY ON THIS STUFF,
[4. Discussion and possible action on the Initiative/Charter/Referendum Mechanics Work Groups initial recommendation on proposition lettering. (Commissioners Altamirano, Botkin, and Ortega)]
BUT, UH, THAT BRINGS US TO OUR NEXT AGENDA ITEM.THAT'S AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FOUR, UH, DISCUSSION, POSSIBLE ACTION ON INITIATIVE CHARTER REFERENDUM, MECHANICS, WORK GROUPS, UH, COMMISSIONER SERANO, UH, BOTKIN, AND B BOTKIN AND ORTEGA, WHO HAS, UH, YES.
UH, IN TALKING ABOUT THEIR ITEM, WE TALKED ABOUT ONE OF OUR ITEMS. SO WE HAVE A FEW OTHER ITEMS, BUT I'M GOING TO BE VERY BRIEF.
ONE OF THE ITEMS IS A SOLUTION TO WHAT DO WE DO WHEN WE HAVE CONTRADICTORY PROVISIONS? WE ARE USING A PROVISION THAT IS IN EFFECT IN HOUSTON AND GRAPEVINE.
AND AFTER BEING ENLIGHTENED ABOUT HOW TO READ JUST AS BLAND TALK ABOUT NORMATIVE DETERMINISM, IT SEEMS THAT WE HAVE A OPTION THAT ALIGNS WITH SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE LIKE, WHICH IS THE HIGHEST VOTE GETTER SHOULD THAT IS SUCCESSFUL.
SHOULD DETERMINE HOW CONFLICTS ARE RESOLVED.
WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT IT MORE IN JANUARY.
UH, I THINK YOU'LL FIND IT HELPFUL.
SIMILARLY, FOR OUR, UH, BALLOT LABELING, THERE ARE UPDATES.
THERE'S SPECIFIC OR, UH, CHARTER LANGUAGE, UH, AS WELL AS A NEW SECTION THAT I HAVE BEEN PUTTING INTO OUR, MY RECOMMENDATION DRAFTS, WHICH IS ALTERNATIVE IMPLEMENTATION OPTIONS.
AND IT SPEAKS TO POTENTIALLY RECOMMENDING AS A BODY, HAVING COUNSEL ADOPT IT AS AN ORDINANCE.
UH, WE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT THE OTHER TWO ITEMS, WHICH IS THE WHAT DO WE DO WITH CITIZEN INITIATIVES AND WHAT DO WE DO WITH CHARTER? THERE IS NEW LANGUAGE THAT'S MUCH MORE SPECIFIC AND WE WILL UPDATE IT PER, UH, THE, UM, MCGOVERN POINT ABOUT WHAT WE MAY BE FORCING IN TERMS OF NOT GOING TO THE MAY, WHICH IS MY EXPECTATION.
SO WE'LL WORK WITH OUR LEGAL STAFF TO FIX THAT.
THAT MEANS THAT THIS BODY HAS WRITTEN REPORT READY RECOMMENDATIONS ON OUR THREE ITEMS. WE WILL, AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME, UH, VOTE ON THEM AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THEM MORE IN DEPTH IN JANUARY.
UH, THE NEW ONE, UNLESS ANYBODY HAS ANY QUESTIONS RIGHT NOW, BURNING QUESTIONS? NO, THANK YOU.
[5. Discussion and possible action regarding community engagement of the Charter Review process from the Outreach Work Group. ]
TERRIFIC.UM, OKAY, SO THAT TAKES US TO, UH, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FIVE, DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING, UH, COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT WITH THE CHARTER REVIEW PROCESS FROM THE OUTREACH GROUP.
AND, UM, I DID GET A CHANCE TO, UM, I'M, UH, COMMISSIONER LASH.
DO YOU MIND IF I TAKE THIS ONE? I THINK I'VE GOT A, AN UPDATE FOR US.
UH, SO YEAH, SO WE DID, UH, GET SPEAKUP, UH, SPEAKUP IS NOW LIVE, THE WEBSITE.
UM, WE, WE WORKED WITH OUR, UH, IT TEAM TO GET THAT GOING, UH, WHICH MEANS THAT, UH, THAT WEBSITE IS NOW LIVE.
UH, WE ALSO NOW HAVE OUR, UH, MEETINGS ARE UP ON OUR STREAMING NOW, SO YOU CAN CATCH UP ON OUR MEETINGS.
YOU'RE ABLE TO, UH, LOG IN AND, UH, IF YOU WEREN'T ABLE TO ATTEND ONE OF OUR MEETINGS, YOU CAN ALWAYS WATCH IT.
AND I BELIEVE THERE WAS A QUESTION ON WHETHER, UH, THESE, THIS IS AVAILABLE IN CLOSED CAPTIONING.
I ASKED EARLIER, AND THEY SAID YES.
THE RECORDED MEETINGS, THE, THE RECORDED MEETINGS TODAY AND MOVING FORWARD, CORRECT? CORRECT.
UH, AND I KNOW THAT WE NEEDED A SHOUT OUT TO CAROLYN FOR WORKING ON OUR, ON THE LANGUAGE FOR THE, FOR THAT.
SO, UH, CAROLYN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE WORKING ON THAT LANGUAGE.
I KNOW THAT WAS PART OF, UM, TRYING TO GET EVERYTHING, UH, UP, IS TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL THE LANGUAGE WAS, UH, WAS, WAS CLEAR AND, UH, AS UNAMBIGUOUS AS POSSIBLE.
UM, AND SO THERE ARE, UH, SOME, UH, ISSUES THAT WE WANTED TO, UH, BRING UP FOR DISCUSSION, AND THAT'S, HOW LONG DO WE WANT TO KEEP, UH, THE SURVEYS AND QUESTIONNAIRES UP ON THE WEBSITE? UM, THE IDEA IS THAT MAYBE, UH, THROUGH THE SECOND WEEK OF JANUARY, UH, AT THE LATEST, UH, AND THEN PULL IT DOWN, AND THEN AT THAT POINT, THAT WILL HAVE ALLOWED TO GATHER AS MUCH, UH, UH, PUBLIC COMMENTS.
BUT WE'RE CERTAINLY OPEN TO, TO DISCUSSING, UH, I KNOW THAT THERE IS A DEADLINE BLOOMING FOR OUR REPORT, SO WE CAN'T LEAVE IT OPEN INDEFINITELY.
[02:20:01]
UH, OPEN THAT ONE UP FOR DISCUSSION.YES, COMMISSIONER BEN MANNING.
SO MY APOLOGIES IF I, IF I MISSED THIS IN, IN ONE OF THE EARLY MEETINGS, BUT WHAT'S OUR TIMELINE FOR PUBLIC HEARINGS? BECAUSE I THINK IT WOULD BE IMPORTANT THAT PUBLIC INPUT, I THINK, WOULD IMPACT OUR DECISIONS, BUT IT ALSO MIGHT IMPACT WHAT THE OTHER PUBLIC INPUT IS THAT WE RECEIVE.
I I THINK WE NEED TO PROBABLY SCHEDULE THEM IN FEBRUARY, IF NOT SOMETIME IN JANUARY.
YEAH, I, I'M SORRY, I DON'T HAVE A CLEAR ANSWER ON THAT ONE.
I, I WOULD JUST ARGUE THAT, THAT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO KEEP THE, THE SURVEY UP EVEN WHILE THE HEARINGS ARE GOING ON AND EVEN PAST THAT OF OBVIOUSLY WE CAN'T KEEP IT UP FOREVER, TO YOUR POINT.
UM, AND WE DO HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, TAKE ALL OF THAT PUBLIC INPUT AND CONSIDER IT, SO IT WOULD NEED TO COME DOWN BEFORE WE ISSUE OUR FINAL REPORT.
UM, BUT I JUST, I, I FEEL LIKE THESE TWO THINGS WORK TOGETHER IN SOME WAYS.
AND, UH, THAT, THAT'S THE OTHER QUESTION.
I GUESS WE ALSO NEED TO FIGURE OUT, UH, HOW MUCH TRAFFIC WE'RE GETTING RIGHT NOW.
THAT'S, UM, FOR OUR FUTURE OF COMMISSIONER LASH FOR US TO GO BACK AND DISCUSS WITH THE, WITH THE WEBSITE TEAM TO SEE HOW MUCH TRACTION WE'RE ACTUALLY GETTING ON THAT WEBSITE IF WE'RE GETTING GOOD RESULTS FROM THAT, UH, FROM THOSE SURVEYS AND STUFF.
SO THAT'S, UM, WE'LL PUT A PIN IN THAT ONE AND COME BACK AFTER WE GET AN IDEA OF WHETHER WE'RE, IT'S ACTUALLY AN EFFECTIVE TOOL.
IF WE'RE NOT GETTING ANYONE, THEN IF I, I AGREE THAT WE SHOULD KEEP IT OPEN AS LONG AS POSSIBLE AND INVITE THOSE PUBLIC HEARINGS AND, AND KEEP IT OPEN WHILE THOSE PUBLIC HEARINGS ARE GOING ON SO THAT WAY THEY CAN, UH, COMMENT, UM, ON, THERE MIGHT BE SOME ADDITIONAL COMMENTARY FROM THAT.
I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE FROM THE OUTREACH TEAM.
SORRY, ANOTHER QUICK QUESTION.
UM, I, I FEEL LIKE OUTREACH, YOU KNOW, I FEEL LIKE WHAT, WHAT'S REPORTED IN THE MEDIA IMPACTS PUBLIC INPUT, AND I FEEL LIKE IT IMPACTS US AND IT IS A REPRESENTATION IN SOME WAYS OF PUBLIC INPUT, UM, IN SOME WAYS, OF COURSE.
UM, SO THE CITY, IF YOU'RE CITY STAFF AND LIKE COUNCIL STAFF, AND THEN THERE'S CERTAIN OTHER STAFF THAT RECEIVE, UM, AN EMAIL EVERY DAY THAT'S SORT OF A MEDIA AGGREGATOR THAT MENTIONED THAT INCLUDES ALL THE MENTIONS, UM, OF THE, YOU KNOW, COUNCIL MEMBERS OF DEPARTMENTS OF THE MAYOR.
UM, I WOULD LOVE TO FIND OUT IF WE COULD ADD, YOU KNOW, I, IT MAY ALREADY INCLUDE EACH COMMISSION, BUT I WOULD LOVE TO FIND OUT IF IT, IT INCLUDES, OR I WOULD LOVE TO FIND OUT IF WE COULD HAVE THAT INCLUDED FOR OUR COMMISSION AND THEN HAVE THAT SENT TO US SO WE, SO WE'RE ABLE TO MONITOR, YOU KNOW, COVERAGE OF, OF WHAT WE'RE DOING AND JUST MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT EASIER FOR US, I THINK, TO PUT THAT PUBLIC INPUT INTO CONTEXT, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.
SO A WAY TO, A WAY TO AGGREGATE ALL THE COMMENTS THAT WE'RE GETTING AGGREGATE THE MEDIA COVERAGE.
I THINK IT'S, I THINK IT'S MELTWATER, I CAN'T REMEMBER WHICH, WHICH, UM, APPLICATION THE CITY USES FOR THAT.
UM, BUT YOU KNOW, ESSENTIALLY IT'S LIKE NEWS CLIPS, RIGHT? IT'S LIKE THEY, THEY'LL SEND YOU NEWS CLIPS EVERY MORNING OF THE, THE PERTINENT, YOU KNOW, CITY DIMENSIONS OF, YOU KNOW, MAYOR, COUNCIL C CITY DEPARTMENTS, THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND WERE YOU LOOKING AT FOR IT SPECIFICALLY AS THEY RELATE, MENTIONS THAT RELATE TO OUR CHARTER OR JUST GENERALLY MENTIONS? I, I WOULD SUGGEST AS IT RELATES TO, TO OUR COMMISSION.
UM, I, YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T HAVE A GOOGLE ALERT FOR IT, SO I DON'T
I DON'T THINK WE ARE, BUT, UM, WHEN WE START HAVING PUBLIC HEARINGS, I THINK WE WILL BE SURE.
AND SO I WOULD LOVE TO LOVE, IF THAT'S POSSIBLE THROUGH THE, UM, THROUGH THE, THE RIGHT DEPARTMENT AT THE CITY, UM, TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.
I'LL, I'LL GET WHAT, WELL, I GUESS WE CAN BRING THAT UP TO OUR IT TEAM THAT'S HELPING US WITH THE OUTREACH PORTION FROM THE CITY, AND WE CAN ASK IF, UH, IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN DO, MYRNA, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE CAN WORK ON? YES, I WILL EMAIL MIA WARNER WHO, UM, YOU HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH.
UM, AND SO WE'LL, WE'LL RECONVENE WITH, UM, THE OUTREACH TEAM WITH NIA.
WE DO HAVE SOME, WE NEEDED TO TALK TO NIA ABOUT THE TRAFFIC ALSO, SO WE'LL, WE'LL MENTION THE AGGREGATOR.
ANYTHING ELSE? ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANYTHING ELSE? OKAY.
[6. Discussion and possible action on the identification and creation of additional Work Groups. ]
ITEM IS, UH, DISCUSSION OF POSSIBLE ACTION IDENTIFICATION AND CREATION OF ADDITIONAL WORK GROUPS.I BELIEVE, UH, COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, UH, HAD SOMETHING THAT SHE WANTED TO, UM, YEAH, I MOVE TO CREATE A WORKING GROUP, SORRY, I MOVED TO CREATE A WORKING GROUP AND I AM WILLING TO VOLUNTEER TO WORK ON THAT WORKING GROUP, UM, TO CONSIDER THE POSSIBILITY OF THE HISTORICAL ITEM FOR AN INDEPENDENT ETHICS
[02:25:01]
COMMISSION.IS THERE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND.
ALRIGHT, IS THERE A, A VOTE? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
AS A POINT OF ORDER, CAN I ASK, UM, WE HAD INITIALLY SET A, AN INFORMAL RULE FOR OURSELVES THAT YOU NEEDED THREE PEOPLE TO PURSUE, UM, A NEW TOPIC.
ARE WE NOT, ARE WE ABANDONING THAT NOW? NO, NO, THAT'S, THAT'S TRUE.
COMMISSIONER DREIER, UH, DO WE HAVE THREE PEOPLE? I'LL DO IT.
IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE WE HAVE THE THIRD PERSON.
CAN, CAN I, CAN I JUST OFFER A, A THOUGHT? UM, I'M NOT READY TO ENDORSE IT, UH, TODAY 'CAUSE I I REALLY HAVEN'T GIVEN IT, UH, MUCH THOUGHT.
WAS IT COVERED IN SOME DEPTH IN THE PRIOR REPORT? UM, YES.
THAT MAY BE SOMETHING THAT I'D, I'D WANT TO GO LOOK AT TO, TO UNDERSTAND THE, UH, THE CONTEXT AND, AND THE CONCERNS THAT THAT AROSE.
UH, I'M, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT READY TO, TO SAY YES NOW, BUT I'M NOT READY TO SAY NO.
UH, AND SO IT'S SOMETHING THAT I MIGHT CONSIDER AT THE NEXT MEETING.
UM, BUT I, I'M JUST NOT READY TO, TO DO IT RIGHT NOW AND I CAN DO MORE HOMEWORK AND DO A BETTER PRESENTATION OF THE REASONS FOR IT.
THAT, THAT, THAT'D BE HELPFUL IF WE PUT IT ON, ON THE AGENDA AGAIN.
IT, IT SEEMS, YOU KNOW, SENSIBLE AND SOMETHING THAT OUGHT TO BE A GOOD IDEA, BUT I'M JUST, I'M NOT THERE JUST YET.
UH, AND THAT'S GONNA, I BELIEVE THAT IS GONNA BE A STANDING ITEM ON THE AGENDA SO WE CAN REVISIT IT, UH, AT OUR NEXT MEETING.
THAT, UH, DISCUSSION OF PUBLIC POSSIBLE ACTION FOR CREATION OF ADDITIONAL WORK GROUPS, I BELIEVE, RIGHT? IS THAT CORRECT, MYRNA? THAT'S A STANDING, YES.
SO IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT I, WE WILL ALSO KEEP THE DISCUSSION ITEM NUMBER TWO SO THAT, UH, COMMISSIONER GREENBERG CAN PROVIDE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION AND I'M HAPPY TO EMAIL THE, UH, REPORT FROM 2018 TO ALL OF YOU SO YOU CAN REVIEW IT.
UH, ANY OTHER, UH, ADDITIONAL WORK GROUPS DISCUSSIONS THAT WE NEED TO, NO.
[7. Discussion and possible action of future meetings and meeting location. ]
THAT JUST LEAVES, UH, UH, NUMBER SEVEN, DISCUSSION OF POSSIBLE ACTION OF FUTURE MEETINGS AND MEETING LOCATION.I BELIEVE WE HAVE A, A LIST OF, UH, DATES IN OUR PACKET HERE.
MY, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND YOU ALL APPROVED THAT, SO THIS COULD BE NO ACTION.
AGAIN, I LEAVE THAT ON HERE IN CASE YOU NEED TO ADD ADDITIONAL MEETINGS.
TO WHAT YOU HAVE, UM, ALREADY APPROVED, FOR EXAMPLE, PUBLIC HEARINGS AND WHATNOT.
UM, AT THIS TIME, I, I DON'T SEE THE NEED FOR AN ADDITIONAL MEETING.
ANYBODY ELSE SEEN A, A NEED FOR AN ADDITIONAL MEETING? NOPE.
[FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
THAT LEADS US TO, UH, ITEM NUMBER I EIGHT, THE COMMISSION MAY DISCUSS AND IDENTIFIED FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS, TOPICS OR PRESENTATIONS.I THINK WE ALREADY IDENTIFIED, WE WANTED TO COME BACK AND DISCUSS THE, UH, ETHICS COMMITTEE.
IS THERE ANY OTHER ADDITIONS? WE'RE GONNA COME BACK AND, AND CONTINUE TO TOUCH ON THE, UH, YES, GO AHEAD.
YOU MAY HAVE BEEN JUST ABOUT TO SAY IT, BUT I, I DO FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW, NOT ONLY THE, THE PETITION'S, UM, RE THE PETITION WORK GROUP'S RECOMMENDATIONS, PARTICULARLY OF THE THRESHOLD, BUT I FEEL LIKE ALSO THE RECALL, I, I FEEL LIKE DESERVES FUTURE DISCUSSION.
UM, IT MAY ALREADY BE IN THERE, LIKE YOU WERE ABOUT TO YES, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I WAS GONNA SAY.
YES, DEFINITELY THE PETITION WORK GROUP AND THEN THE, UH, THE, UH, THE RECALL.
DO I GET A LITTLE GAVEL WEIRD? WOULD, WOULD YOU LIKE A MOTION TO, THERE'S A MOTION TO IT ADJOURNED.
ALL THOSE, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR.
I LOVE IS HERE TO STAY NOT FOR YEAR, BUT EVER AND DAY.
THE RADIO AND THE TELEPHONE AND THE MOVIES THAT WE KNOW MAY JUST BE.