[CALL TO ORDER]
[00:00:03]
SO WE WILL CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER.
[PUBLIC COMMUNICATION: GENERAL]
THAT WE HAVE IS PUBLIC COMMUNICATION.UM, MADAME CLERK, DO WE HAVE ANYONE SIGNED UP? UM, YES WE DO.
WE'LL START WITH VIRTUAL SPEAKERS.
WE'VE GOT, UH, BOBBY LAVINSKY.
MR. LAVINSKY, THE FLOOR IS YOURS.
THIS IS, UH, BOBBY LAVINSKY, UM, WITH SABRE SPRING ALLIANCE.
UH, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE ON THIS IMPORTANT COMMISSION.
UM, I ORIGINALLY PLANNED TO MAKE SOME BRIEF COMMENTS IN SUPPORT OF SOME RECOMMENDATIONS THAT ARE LIKELY GONNA BE COMING OUT OF THE URBAN TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION.
THAT VOTE HASN'T BEEN TAKEN YET, SO I'LL RESERVE COMMENT ON THAT.
BUT, UM, LIKELY WOULD SUPPORT THE ACTIONS COMING FROM THAT COMMISSION.
UM, IN THE MEANTIME, I WANNA VOICE SOME, UH, LIVED EXPERIENCES WITH REGARD TO RAISING THE SIGNATURE THRESHOLD FOR THE RESIDENT INITIATED PETITIONS.
RAISING THE SIGNATURE THRESHOLD FOR RESIDENT INITIATED ORDINANCES AND RECALLS WEAKENS IMPORTANT DEMOCRACY CHECKS ON POWER.
THE CHARTER ALREADY SAFEGUARDS AGAINST THESE PROVISIONS FROM BEING ABUSED BY PLACING TIME BARRIERS BETWEEN THE ELECTIONS.
ANYONE WHO THINKS IT'S EASY TO GATHER 20,000 SIGNATURES HAS LIKELY NOT BEEN PART OF THOSE EFFORTS BEFORE.
AND THE FREQUENCY WITH WHICH RECALLS HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN RECENT HISTORY, ESPECIALLY DURING THE TEN ONE ERA, ZERO TIMES, IS AN INDICATION OF HOW EASY IT'S TO ONE OF THOSE.
I WOULD CHALLENGE THE PROPONENTS OF RAISING THOSE THRESHOLDS THAT IF THEY THINK IT'S SO EASY TO GET 20,000 SIGNATURES, PROVE IT BY DOING IT YOURSELVES, BY GETTING THIS PROPOSAL ON THE BALLOT BY GETTING 20,000 SIGNATURES FROM AUSTINITE, PUT FORWARD THE SAME EFFORT.
AND, UM, AND THE TIME AND THE ENERGY THAT AS THE ADVOCATES HAVE, UH, HAVE PUT INTO RECENT REFORMS THAT HAVE BEEN REALLY IMPORTANT FOR AUSTIN'S HISTORY AND HOW AUSTIN IS TODAY, LIKE TEN ONE.
DIRECT DEMOCRACY IS A RARE TOOL, BUT AN IMPORTANT ONE, PLEASE RESERVE THE POWER FOR THE PEOPLE.
THE NEXT SPEAKER IS LINDA CURTIS, AND IF SHE IS ON, AND IF DEBBIE RUSSELL IS ON, DEBBIE WOULD LIKE TO DONATE HER TIME.
SO MS. CURTIS WILL GET SIX MINUTES.
THE FLOOR IS YOURS WHEN YOU'RE READY.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TO AUSTIN.
AND I WANT TO CONGRATULATE, UH, MR. LAVINSKY ON HIS VERY, UH, INTELLIGENT COMMENTS.
UH, I'M A FOUNDER OF THE LEAGUE OF INDEPENDENT VOTERS OF TEXAS, A NONPARTISAN NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION DEDICATED TO FOSTERING ELECTORAL COMPETITION AND CITIZENS PETITIONS.
WHEN I LIVED IN AUSTIN IN 1995, I LED THE PETITION DRIVE FOR A REFERENDUM TO STOP THE CITY'S PLAN TO SPEND $20 MILLION ON A BASEBALL STADIUM WITHOUT A PUBLIC VOTE.
IN 1997, I LED THE DRIVE FOR A CITY CHARTER AMENDMENT FOR CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM BY AUSTINITES FOR A LITTLE LESS CORRUPTION.
AND 20 2007, I LED THE DRIVE FOR AN INITIATIVE TO STOP THE DOMAIN LUXURY SHOPPING MALL SUBSIDIES.
AND IN 2012, I LED THE CHARTER AMENDMENT PETITION FOR THE TEN ONE PLAN FOR GEOGRAPHIC REPRESENTATION AND THE INDEPENDENT REDISTRICTING COMMISSION.
WE LIKE SOME OF YOUR PROPOSALS AND APPRECIATE YOUR EFFORTS.
UM, TO US, THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE, HOWEVER, IS THE DENIAL OF THE RIGHT TO REFERENDUM TO ALLOW CITIZENS OF VOTE TO REVERSE COUNCIL DECISION.
YOU MAY KNOW THAT PREVIOUS CHARTER REVISION EFFORTS HAVE TRIED TO CLOSE THE LOOPHOLE FOR STOPPING REFERENDUM.
UNDER KIRK WATSON'S FIRST TERM, THE COUNCIL REALIZED THAT THE WAY TO STOP ANY REFERENDUMS WAS TO SIMPLY MAKE ALL ORDINANCES IMMEDIATELY EFFECTIVE.
THIS CLOSED THE WINDOW FOR PETITIONING BY VIRTUE OF SOME LANGUAGE THAT'S STILL IN THE CHARTER.
THE LAST TIME THERE WAS A REFERENDUM WAS THE 1995, UH, DOE AFFECTIONATELY CALLED THE EMERGENCY BASEBALL STADIUM.
THIS LANGUAGE NEEDS TO BE REMOVED FROM THE CHARTER BECAUSE IT'S MY OPINION THAT THE RIGHT TO REFERENDUM IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU CAN DO TO ALLOW CITIZENS THEIR MOST IMPORTANT TOOL BESIDES VOTING TO KEEP THE COUNCIL WORKING FOR THEM AND LESS FOR AUSTIN'S EVER VORACIOUS GROWTH MACHINE RAISING THE 10% PETITION REQUIREMENT FOR RECALL, THAT IS A NORM IN TEXAS, 10% ACCORDING TO THE TEXAS MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, IF YOU RAISE IT TO 35% TOGETHER WITH
[00:05:01]
DISTRICT REQUIREMENTS.THIS WILL, UH, IN MY OPINION, RENDER RECALL DOA IN AUSTIN.
I HAVE A FEELING THAT'S NOT REALLY, UH, WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO THERE.
UM, BOTTOM LINE IS SINCE NOBODY'S BEEN RECALLED IN ANY MEMORY OF MINE, AND I'VE BEEN AROUND A LONG TIME, I, I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE PROBLEM REALLY IS.
ALSO, MOVING MEASURES TO BE HELD ONLY IN NOVEMBER CAN DO BE ANOTHER OBSTACLE TO CITIZENS' PARTICIPATION BECAUSE MEASURES CAN GET LOST IN A SEA OF CANDIDATES FOR PUBLIC OFFICE ON THE, UH, BALLOT IN NOVEMBER.
LAST THING I WANNA SAY IS I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU WANT TO PRESCRIBE A FORM, BUT I DON'T SUPPORT USING A PRESCRIBED FORM.
UH, ONLY THAT YOU MAKE PLAIN THE REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE SET, SET OUT IN STATE LAW.
THE STATE DOESN'T REQUIRE A PETITION FORM FOR MASSIVE PETITIONS FOR CANDIDATES, UH, AND PARTIES.
BUT IF YOU FIND YOUR, IT'S REALLY NECESSARY, MAKE SURE THAT YOU ADD A FIELD FOR PHONE AND EMAIL THAT IS OPTIONAL.
THIS IS THE INTENT HERE, IS TO MAKE PETITIONS FRIENDLY TO VOLUNTEER DRIVES.
THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR SERVICE AND THE OPPORTUNITY.
THE NEXT SPEAKER IS LISA CHANG, AND SHE IS ACTUALLY SPEAKING ON ITEM NUMBER SEVEN.
MS. CHANG, THE FLOOR IS YOURS.
HI, MY NAME'S LISA CHANG AND I'M ON THE BOARD OF THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS AUSTIN AREA.
AND, UM, AFTER REVIEWING THE MEETING MINUTES OF PAST, UM, MEETINGS, WE ARE JUST CURIOUS WHO WOULD BE SITTING ON THE WORK GROUPS.
AND, UM, I'M HERE TO JUST, UH, MOSTLY LISTEN TO MY TONIGHT.
AND WE WILL, UM, WE CAN REITERATE THE, UH, MEMBERS OF THE WORK GROUPS DURING OUR MEETING.
NOW WE'LL GO TO IN-PERSON SPEAKERS, UM, WITH JOE RIDDLE.
OH, UH, GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS.
UH, I GOT A FEW POINTS TO MAKE, UH, SINCE THE LAST MEETING I DID, UH, TAKE A LOOK AT THE SURVEY RESULTS.
THE, THE, THE PROVIDED THE DETAILS.
AND, UH, TWO THINGS, UH, WERE REALLY APPARENT.
PEOPLE ARE FOR TRANSPARENCY, AND THEY ARE AGAINST, UH, MAKING IT HARDER FOR PETITIONS TO, TO BE, UH, CERTIFIED AND, AND THEY'RE AGAINST DELAYING VOTES.
UM, AND I DID, UH, SEND Y'ALL AN EMAIL ABOUT A PARTICULAR PROPOSAL, UH, THAT'S IN THERE FOR THE RECALL, UH, RELATED TO THE RECALL OF THE MAYOR.
UH, IT WOULD REQUIRE, WELL, BY THE WAY, UH, ACCORDING TO THE CHART, THERE WERE NOT QUITE 600,000, UH, QUALIFIED VOTERS TO VOTE FOR MAYOR.
SO YOU'D NEED TO 10%, YOU'D NEED 60,000, UH, SIGNATURES.
AND, BUT THEN THERE'D BE A FURTHER REQUIREMENT THAT 5% OF THE COLLECTED SIGNATURES WOULD HAVE TO COME FROM EACH COUNCIL DISTRICT.
UM, THAT'S GONNA BE A VERY UNWORKABLE THING.
UH, IT, IT MEANS YOU'VE GOTTA KEEP TRACK OF WHERE EACH DISTRICT, UH, WHERE, WHERE THE SIGN, THE PEOPLE THAT SIGN THOSE, WHERE THEY'RE FROM, AND IT'S GONNA BE A MOVING TARGET.
'CAUSE AS SOON AS YOU GET YOUR 60,000 AND YOU START GETTING IN MORE SIGNATURES, THEN FOR EVERY THOUSAND SIGNATURES YOU GET FI YOU GOTTA FIND 5% MORE OR 50 MORE FROM EACH OF THE 10 DISTRICTS.
SO THAT'S GONNA BE A REAL HEADACHE, JUST FIRST OF ALL, IN KNOWING WHAT YOU HAVE AND COLLECTING THEM.
BUT THEN WHEN IT'S TIME FOR THE CLERK TO, TO CERTIFY THESE, THE SAMPLING HAS GOTTA BE MUCH MORE SOPHISTICATED.
IT'S NOT JUST LOOKING AT, UH, 60 OR 70,000 SIGNATURES.
IT'S YOU GOTTA, YOU GOTTA HAVE GOOD ENOUGH SAMPLING TO FIND OUT FOR EACH OF THOSE 10 DISTRICTS IF YOU'VE GOT THE THRESHOLD.
AND, UH, ANYWAY, I THINK IT'S JUST A BAD IDEA.
THE, THE OTHER THING IS WHAT, BY REQUIRING THAT SOME OF THE DISTRICTS HAVE TO, YOU HAVE TO GET A WHOLE BUNCH OF, UH, MORE SIGNATURES THAN OTHER, UH, BY PERCENTAGE.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, IF THERE WERE 60,000 VALID SIGNATURES, UH, THE DIS UH, VOTERS IN, UH, DISTRICT NINE, YOU'D ONLY NEED 4% OF THEIR, OF THEIR SIGNATURES IN RELATION TO THE DISTRICT.
BUT FOR, UH, DISTRICT FOUR, YOU NEED 7.85% OF THE SIGNATURES OF THE PEOPLE IN, IN THAT DISTRICT.
SO IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME THE WAY IT WORKS.
UM, I, I KNOW YOU'RE GONNA BE TALKING ABOUT OUTREACH AND PUBLIC HEARINGS.
I'M, I'M SORRY THAT YOU DIDN'T EARLY ON HAVE SOME KIND OF LIKE PUBLIC HEARING TO INVITE PEOPLE TO TELL YOU WHAT THEY THOUGHT NEEDS TO BE DONE WITH THE CHARTER.
IT IS KIND OF COMING AT THE TAIL END OF YOUR 6,365
[00:10:01]
DAY TERMS, WHICH I HOPE YOU WOULD FEEL, UM, NOT AFRAID TO TELL THE COUNCIL.WELL, WE'RE NOT READY 'CAUSE WE STILL GOT DEBATES AND THINGS ANYWAY, UM, AT THE PUBLIC HEARING, I THINK IT'S GONNA BE IMPORTANT TO EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM.
YOU KNOW, IF YOU READ THE ORDINANCE THAT THE COUNCIL PASSED, IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE THEY'RE JUST TELLING YOU TO COME UP WITH THESE IDEAS.
I MEAN, I, IT'S, IT'S GOOD FOR YOU TO LOOK INTO SOMETHING, BUT, UM, THEY STATE THESE IN A WAY TO KIND OF LIKE LIMIT ON CITIZEN INITIATED CHANGES TO THE CHARTER TO NOVEMBER ELECTIONS.
WELL, THAT ONE IN PARTICULAR, IT MIGHT MEAN IT'S GONNA BE FOUR YEARS, UH, BETWEEN CHARTER AMENDMENTS AND YOU COME UP WITH AN IDEA AFTER, WELL, LIKE SUPPOSE WE AMEND THEM IND THIS, UH, COMING ELECTION.
IT'LL BE FOUR YEARS BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE CAN BE CHANGED.
LASTLY, I JUST WANNA SAY, I THINK YOU NEED TO LOOK INTO CONSIDERING WHETHER THE COUNCIL SHOULD APPOINT THE CHIEF OF POLICE.
THAT CONCLUDES ALL THE SPEAKERS.
[APPROVAL OF MINUTES]
TO OUR NEXT ITEM, UH, APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM JANUARY 18TH, 2024, WHICH SHOULD BE IN YOUR PACKET.UM, AFTER YOU ALL HAVE A CHANCE TO REVIEW THOSE, I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO APPROVE.
[2. Law Department briefing regarding staff proposed charter revisions. ]
SO MOVING ON TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER TWO.WE ARE GOING TO DEFER THE LAW DEPARTMENT BRIEFING, UM, BECAUSE WE DID HAVE SEVERAL SUBSTANTIVE ITEMS TONIGHT, INCLUDING TWO INVITED GUEST SPEAKERS.
UM, SO WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAD TIME TO HEAR FROM THOSE FOLKS.
AND SO CAROLINE WILL BE BACK AT OUR NEXT MEETING ON THE 15TH WITH THE BRIEFING ON THE STAFF CHANGES, UM, TO THE CHARTER.
DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD THERE, CAROLINE? NO, THE ONLY THING I WAS GONNA ADD, SORRY, THIS IS CAROLINE WEBSTER WITH THE LAW DEPARTMENT, IS THAT I WON'T, I MIGHT BE PRESENTING THOSE, BUT MORE LIKELY IT'S GONNA BE WAJIHA RIZVI ANOTHER PERSON IN THE LAW DEPARTMENT.
'CAUSE SHE'S THE ONE WHO COMPILED THAT STAFF REPORT, BUT, OKAY.
THANK YOU FOR THAT CLARIFICATION.
[3. Discussion and possible action on the City Attorney Working Group initial recommendation report. (Chair Palvino, Commissioners Garcia and McGiverin)]
ON TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER THREE.WE HAVE DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON THE CITY ATTORNEY WORKING GROUP.
UM, WHICH I AM GOING TO TURN OVER TO COMMISSIONER MCGIVEN BECAUSE HE DID THE, UH, INCREDIBLE WORK AND HEAVY LIFTING ON THIS RECOMMENDATION.
UM, WHICH WE HAVE INCLUDED MATERIALS IN YOUR PACKET.
HOWEVER, I, UM, THEY'RE INCOMPLETE BECAUSE MY SCANNER SKIPPED EVERY OTHER PAGE.
AND SO I WILL, AFTER THE MEETING PROVIDE A COMPLETE PACKET OF THE MATERIALS
UM, HOWEVER YOU DO HAVE A MEMO IN PACKET FROM US.
UM, FIRST, UH, THE SPEAKER THAT WE INVITED TO JOIN US ON ZOOM, UM, CHUCK THOMPSON.
IS HE WITH US? YES, HE'S OKAY.
UM, WELL, SO THEN I'LL JUST GIVE A SHORT INTRODUCTION AND THEN, UM, UH, OFFER THE MICROPHONE TO, UH, MR. THOMPSON.
UM, THE SHORT STORY IS THAT WE INVESTIGATED SOME OF THE MODELS THAT WERE USED IN OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY.
AND, UH, ONE RECOMMENDATION THAT, UM, WE ULTIMATELY SETTLED ON AS A GROUP WAS, UH, WHAT WE, WHAT MR. THOMPSON WILL DESCRIBE.
ACTUALLY, HE WAS CRITICAL IN US COMING TO THAT RECOMMENDATION.
UM, THE FIRST PART IS REFLECTIVE OF, UM, WHAT IS INCLUDED IN THE MODEL CHARTER THAT'S SET OUT BY THE NATIONAL, UH, MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, WHICH IS THAT CITY ATTORNEYS SHOULD BE IN, IN A CITY MANAGER STYLE OF GOVERNMENT, SHOULD BE APPOINTED BY THE CITY MANAGER WITH, AND THEN GIVEN THE APPROVAL, UH, WITH THE APPROVAL OF CITY COUNCIL, UH, KINDS OF ADVICE AND CONSENT ROLE.
AND SIMILAR THAT ANY REMOVAL OF A CITY ATTORNEY WOULD BE, UH, ACCOMPLISHED IN THE SAME WAY THROUGH JOINT ACTION OF THE CITY MANAGER AND, UH, THE COUNCIL.
AND, UH, THE SUPPORTING MATERIALS, WHICH, UH, I GUESS WE HAVE EVERY EVEN NUMBER PAGE OF, UM, I THOUGHT MADE A COMPELLING POINT ABOUT HOW THAT SIMPLE STRUCTURAL CHANGE, YOU KNOW, ADDRESSES ANY LATENT OR ACTUAL CONCERN OR POTENTIAL FUTURE CONCERN ABOUT KIND OF THE STRUCTURE OF ACCOUNTABILITY BETWEEN THE INSTITUTIONS.
UM, I THOUGHT THAT WAS COMPELLING.
UM, AND THEN TAKING A STEP FURTHER, AND I, I DO PROMISE I'M GONNA STOP TALKING IN A MOMENT.
UM, MR. THOMAS HAD A, AN EXCELLENT, UH, IDEA, UH, REGARDING, UM, ALSO TRYING TO ADDRESS A CONCERN THAT, YOU KNOW, HAS COME UP FROM TIME TO TIME ABOUT THE INDEPENDENCE OF LEGAL ADVICE BEING GIVEN TO THE CITY COUNCIL.
UH, HIS INDIVIDUAL EXPERIENCE IS ACTUALLY, UH, IN PART WITH THE COUNTY, MONTGOMERY COUNTY IN MARYLAND, WHERE THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS HAVE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL, AND I THINK HE CAN SPEAK TO SOME OF THE DRAWBACKS
[00:15:01]
THAT COME FROM THAT.AND HE HAD SUGGESTED SORT OF A MIDDLE ROUTE OF, UH, HAVING A PERSON FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE APPOINTED TO WORK WITH COUNSEL WITH, UM, SOME REASONABLE SORT OF FIREWALLS AND COMMUNICATION.
UM, AND I'LL LET HIM SPEAK TO THAT POINT IF I CAN.
AND I'LL JUST ADD, UM, BEFORE WE START FIRING QUESTIONS AWAY.
UM, BUT MR. THOMPSON, THE WAY YOU KNOW, BRIAN, AS I MENTIONED, DID A LOT OF THE LEGWORK HERE.
UM, AND WE RELIED HEAVILY ON THE NATIONAL CIVIC LEAGUE MODEL, CITY CHARTER, WHICH IS, UH, PARTIALLY IN YOUR MATERIALS, AND I WILL PROVIDE A FULL COPY.
UM, AND IN, IN LOOKING AT THAT CITY CHARTER, WE WERE KIND OF TRYING TO FIND THE ATTORNEY WHO WEIGHED IN ON THAT, WHO, UH, AND I DON'T KNOW IF MR. THOMPSON WILL TAKE FULL CREDIT FOR DRAFTING IT, BUT HE WAS CERTAINLY INTEGRALLY INVOLVED IN DRAFTING IT TO REALLY MAKE SURE WE GOT CONNECTED WITH A SUBJECT MATTER EXPERT.
AND SO MR. THOMPSON WAS, WAS PREVIOUSLY, HE IS CURRENTLY STAFF ATTORNEY FOR THE INTERNATIONAL MUNICIPAL LAWYERS ASSOCIATION, AND HE WAS PREVIOUSLY THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AND GENERAL COUNSEL OF THAT ORGANIZATION.
UM, AND THEN AS BRIAN MENTIONED BEFORE, THEN HE SERVED AS A COUNTY ATTORNEY FOR ABOUT 30 YEARS, UM, IN TWO DIFFERENT COUNTIES, INCLUDING MONTGOMERY COUNTY, WHERE, UH, ROCKVILLE, MARYLAND IS, WHICH RIGHT OUTSIDE OF DC.
SO A LARGE, UH, LARGE POPULATION THERE.
UM, AND SO WE WERE LUCKY ENOUGH TO GET CONNECTED WITH HIM AND KIND OF DISCUSS, YOU KNOW, OUR VARIOUS CONCERNS AND POTENTIAL PROPOSALS WITH HIM.
UM, BUT WE WANTED TO INVITE HIM TO TONIGHT BECAUSE WE THOUGHT YOU ALL MIGHT HAVE QUESTIONS, PARTICULARLY BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF ATTORNEYS ON THE COMMISSION, AND WE HAVE A FORMER CITY ATTORNEY ON THE COMMISSION.
UM, WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU ALL WERE ABLE TO SPEAK DIRECTLY WITH THE SUBJECT MATTER EXPERT RATHER THAN SORT OF FILTERING YOUR, UH, QUESTIONS AND RESPONSES THROUGH, THROUGH US.
UM, AND SO WITH THAT, WHICH ONE CORRECT? AN ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY, ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY,
COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, WHEN IT'S AN APPOINTMENT OR A REMOVAL BY THE, UM, MANAGER AND THE COUNCIL IS, DOES THE MANAGER GET TO OVERRULE THE COUNCIL OR JUST ONE VOTE LIKE THE OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS? IT'S, IT IS, IT HAS TO BE A JOINT ACTION IS WHAT THE MODEL CHARTER PROVIDES.
AND I, I WOULD SAY I WAS, I WAS A MEMBER OF A, OF THE COMMITTEE THAT PARTICIPATED IN DRAFTING THAT.
I CAN'T TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY AT ALL, AND I PROBABLY, UH, HESITATE TO CALL MYSELF AN EXPERT, BUT, UH, THANK YOU FOR DOING SO.
SO, MR. THOMPSON, THE CITY MANAGER WOULD SEND A LETTER REQUESTING OR SAYING THAT THEY'RE READY TO REMOVE THE CITY ATTORNEY AND THE COUNCIL WILL PASS THE RESOLUTION SAYING THAT THEY CONCUR.
AND THAT MEANS THE CITY ATTORNEY IS VACATED.
IS THAT THE MECHANICS? THAT'S, I, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE, THE MECHANICS WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT EACH CITY WOULD HAVE TO TRY TO, UH, INCORPORATE IN AFTER THEIR CHARTER IS ADOPTED.
BUT, UH, YES, I THINK THAT WOULD BE ONE WAY.
THE OTHER WAY WOULD BE THE COUNCIL WOULD SEND A LETTER TO THE CITY MANAGER SAYING THAT IT IS OUR DETERMINATION THAT YOU NEED TO REMOVE, UH, OR THAT WE NEED TO REMOVE THE CITY ATTORNEY.
AND THEN THE MANAGER COULD EITHER ACCEPT OR REJECT THAT, UH, SUGGESTION.
UH, RYAN BOKEN, UM, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, UH, MR. THOMAS.
I, I, UH, APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.
UH, ISSUES OF PRIVILEGE ARE NOTORIOUSLY KIND OF DIFFICULT IN WITH RESPECT TO, TO PUBLIC ENTITIES.
DOES THIS PROPOSAL HAVE ANY IMPACT ON, UH, PRIVILEGE ISSUES OR WAIVER OF PRIVILEGE? AS YOU SAY, PRIVILEGE IS A DIFFICULT, UH, TOPIC, AND I'M NOT SOMEONE WHO IS, UH, COMPLETELY KNOWLEDGEABLE, IF KNOWLEDGEABLE AT ALL ON TEXAS LAW.
UH, AND PRIVILEGE VARIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY, BUT WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THAT IN MOST JURISDICTIONS, THAT IN THE COURSES THAT I'VE TAUGHT OVER THE YEARS, UH, INVOLVING ETHICS, THE, UH, PRIVILEGE IS THAT OF THE ORGANIZATION AS A WHOLE.
AND, UH, AN ATTORNEY WHO, WHO REPRESENTS THE CLIENT, THE CLIENT IS THE ORGANIZATION UNDER SECTION, UH, I THINK MODEL RULE 1 1, 1 1 3.
IN TEXAS, THE NUMBER IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.
[00:20:01]
SO, UH, IT'S NOT 1.113 IN TEXAS, BUT I'M NOT SURE WHAT IT IS.BUT THE A BA MODEL IS 1.113, TEXAS, IT MAY BE 1.114, IF I, I I COULD BE, LIKE I SAY, IT'S IT, BUT IT'S THE REPRESENTATION OF AN ORGANIZATION AND YOU REPRESENT THE ORGANIZATION, NOT THE CONSTITUENTS OF THE ORGANIZATION.
THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH WOULD BE A CONSTITUENT OF THE ORGANIZATION.
THE COUNCIL WOULD BE A CONSTITUENT OF THE ORGANIZATION, AS WOULD EACH DEPARTMENT OR DEPARTMENT HEAD.
AND, UH, IT IS THE PRIVILEGE OF THE ORGANIZATION AS OPPOSED TO THE PRIVILEGE OF INDIVIDUALS.
THERE ARE CASES AROUND THE COUNTRY THAT DISCUSS HOW PRIVILEGE CAN BE WAIVED, UH, EITHER INTENTIONALLY OR UNINTENTIONALLY.
UH, BUT GENERALLY, UH, THOSE CASES, AS I RECALL FROM THE LAST TIME I TAUGHT THE COURSE, WAS THAT WHERE MOST LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, THE PRIVILEGE, UH, HAS TO BE INTENTIONALLY WAIVED, UH, BY, UH, THE CLIENT.
AND, AND A FOLLOW UP QUESTION ON THAT, ON THAT POINT, DOES UNDER THE CURRENT MODEL WITH THE CITY MANAGER APPOINTMENT, DOES THAT, DOES THAT ENTITLE THE CITY MANAGER TO WAIVE PRIVILEGE? OR IS THAT A, AN AUTHORITY RESERVED TO THE COUNCIL ALONE, OR IS IT JOINT, UM, UNDER THIS PROPOSAL? I'M JUST, I'M JUST CURIOUS HOW THE, THE WAIVER ISSUE OPERATES.
YEAH, I, I DON'T THINK THERE'S A CLEAR ANSWER TO THAT.
I USED TO JOKE ALL THE TIME THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, UNDER THE FORM OF GOVERNMENT WHERE I PRACTICED AS MON IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY FOR 12 YEARS, THE, UH, IT WAS AN EXECUTIVE COUNCIL FORM OF GOVERNMENT WITH A CLEAR SEPARATION OF POWERS.
AND, UH, THE GENERALLY UNDER AN EXECUTIVE FORM OF GOVERNMENT, THE, IT IT'S AN EXECUTIVE FUNCTION TO, UH, WAIVE PRIVILEGE.
SO THE QUESTION WAS, AND, AND FORTUNATELY IT NEVER CAME UP, IS COULD THE EXECUTIVE WAIVE THE COUNCIL'S PRIVILEGE? I, I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S A GOOD ANSWER FOR THAT.
I, I WOULD SUSPECT NOT, BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, FOR A, FOR AN INTERESTING LAW SCHOOL QUESTION, I THINK NOT, UH, IT'S NOT LIKELY TO COME UP TOO OFTEN.
THE OTHER ASPECT OF THAT THAT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE IS THAT THERE IS ALSO LEGISLATIVE PRIVILEGE AND LEGISLATIVE PRIVILEGE.
MAYBE IT, I WOULD HOPE IT'S RECOGNIZED IN TEXAS.
IT'S RECOGNIZED IN A NUMBER OF STATES.
IT IS IN MARYLAND WHERE I PRACTICED, AND, UH, THE, THE COUNCIL HAD LEGISLATIVE PRIVILEGE, AND WHERE, WHERE I PRACTICED THE EXECUTIVE HAD LEGISLATIVE PRIVILEGE FOR THOSE MATTERS WHERE THE EXECUTIVE WAS, UH, CONSIDERING VETO OR SOME OTHER LEGISLATIVE TYPE STYLE ACT.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I, I DID, I DID TEACH LOCAL GOVERNMENT LAW FOR ABOUT 20 YEARS AT, UH, THE NATIONAL LAW CENTER IN GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY.
UH, THE PRIVILEGE ISSUE THOUGH, WAS SOMETHING I'VE, I'VE TAUGHT ETHICS CLASSES AT, UH, IMLA PROGRAMS AROUND THE COUNTRY AND, UH, AT SOME STATE MUNICIPAL AID COURSES.
SO, UH, I, I HAVE AT LEAST, UH, DONE SOME, A FAIR AMOUNT OF RESEARCH ON THE ISSUE OF PRIVILEGE.
IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, I, I'M SEMI-RETIRED, AND YOU KNOW, I'M OLD.
AND WHAT I REMEMBER IS, UH, AND CAN, CAN GET CLOUDED A LITTLE BIT, BUT, UH, PRIVILEGE IS, IS A VERY UNIQUE ISSUE FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENT.
THERE ARE SOME, UH, THERE, THERE ARE SOME CASES, ONE OUT OF THE, UH, SIXTH CIRCUIT OR SEVENTH CIRCUIT, AS I RECALL, THAT, UH, DID NOT RECOGNIZE, UH, A PRIVILEGE FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENT.
WHEREAS IN, AT ABOUT THE SAME TIME, UH, THE SECOND CIRCUIT DID, AND THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE TWO WAS THE GOVERNOR OF ILLINOIS WAS INDICTED AND SENT TO JAIL, WHEREAS THE GOVERNOR OF CONNECTICUT WAS NOT.
AND, UH, THE, THOSE WERE THE RESULTS OF THOSE TWO CIRCUIT OPINIONS, AS I RECALL.
SO, MR. THOMPSON, ONE ISSUE THAT WE, AFTER, UM, OUR CONVERSATION, AFTER YOUR CONVERSATION WITH OUR WORKING GROUP, UM, THAT I WANTED TO FLUSH OUT WITH THE COMMISSION TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE KIND OF UNDERSTOOD THE REASONS BEHIND THIS PARTICULAR RECOMMENDATION.
SO IN ADDITION TO THE, YOU KNOW, CITY ATTORNEY BEING NOMINATED AND, UH, NOMINATED BY THE MANAGER AND, UH, APPROVED BY COUNSEL, BOTH THE NOMINATION AND THE, OR THE APPOINTMENT AND THE REMOVAL, WE HAVE AN ADDITIONAL RECOMMENDATION THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY WILL DESIGNATE SOMEONE WITHIN THEIR OFFICE TO KIND OF SERVE AS COUNCIL, TO THE COUNCIL, UM, SO THAT WHEN THEY ARE DEVELOPING POLICY PROPOSALS, THEY HAVE A SINGLE POINT OF CONTACT.
AND I KNOW YOU HAD SOME EXPERIENCE WORKING WITH, UM, AN INDEPENDENT, YOU KNOW, KIND OF AN INDEPENDENT LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL
[00:25:01]
VERSUS A LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL THAT'S APPOINTED FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE OR, UM, AND WONDERING IF YOU COULD SPEAK A LITTLE BIT TO THAT DISTINCTION, UM, AND REASONS WHY, UM, YOU KNOW, WORKS BETTER TO HAVE AN ATTORNEY FROM WITHIN THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE? UH, I'LL DO MY BEST.THE, UH, LET ME PREFACE IT BY SAYING THAT THE ATTORNEYS THAT THE COUNSEL HAD, UH, WERE VERY GOOD ATTORNEYS.
I HAD A LOT OF RESPECT FOR THEM.
UH, I, IT SEEMED TO ME FIRST THAT IT'S SOMEWHAT FISCALLY UNSOUND TO HAVE, UH, ATTORNEYS REPRESENTING BOTH BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT, UH, THAT ARE OUTSIDE THE, THE OFFICE OF THE GENERAL COUNSEL.
YOU DON'T SEE THAT IN THE CORPORATE SETTING.
UH, MOST CITIES AND MOST LOCAL GOVERNMENTS ARE CORPORATE ENTITIES.
AND SO WHY WOULD YOU TAKE WHAT WORKS WELL IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR AND CHANGE THAT FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENT? YOU HAVE, UM, OFTENTIMES BATTLING, UH, ISSUES OF CREATED BY, UH, WHAT I GUESS WE ALL CALL NOW THE POLITICAL DIVIDE, WHERE YOU HAVE, UH, SOME ISSUES THAT ARE PROMOTED OUT OF POLITICS THAT, YOU KNOW, CREATE CONFLICT BETWEEN THE TWO BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT, UH, MAYBE MORE SO IN THE EXECUTIVE COUNCIL FORM THAT I, I PRACTICED IN.
BUT NEVERTHELESS, YOU HAVE THESE CONFLICTS THAT I THINK ARE NOT, UM, UH, NECESS, THEY COULD BE RESOLVED MORE EASILY WHERE THE CITY ATTORNEY OR COUNTY ATTORNEY ACTS OFTEN AS A MEDIATOR, UH, AND DOES SO NOT JUST BETWEEN THE BRANCHES, BUT BETWEEN DEPARTMENTS.
AND I USED THE EXAMPLE WHEN I SPOKE TO YOU OF, UH, SAY, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND THE FIRE MARSHAL WHERE, UH, AND SOMETIMES ZONING WHERE, YOU KNOW, THE INTEREST MAY DIFFER, BUT YOU KNOW, YOU WANT TO TRY TO MEDIATE THOSE DIFFERENCES SO THAT IT DOESN'T, THESE INTERESING BATTLES DON'T BECOME SOMETHING THAT, UH, CREATES SUCH, SUCH A HUGE AMOUNT OF FRICTION THAT GOVERNMENT ENABLE ISN'T ABLE TO OPERATE EFFICIENTLY AND EFFECTIVELY.
THERE ARE TIMES TOO, WHEN MEMBERS OF MY STAFF, I THINK, AND MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL, LEGISLATIVE, UH, STAFF, UH, THEIR COUNCIL, UH, WOULD, WOULD SEE THINGS QUITE DIFFERENTLY.
UH, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT BECAME A, A PROBLEM FOR US WAS IF THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL AND OUR OFFICE DISAGREED OVER THE ADOPTION OF A SPECIFIC PIECE OF LEGISLATION, AND THE COUNCIL ADOPTED IT, RELYING UPON THEIR ATTORNEYS, GENERALLY, THE LEGISLATIVE PACKAGE WOULD INCLUDE OUR OPINION THAT, UH, IDENTIFIED WHAT THE MAJOR PROBLEMS OF THE LEGISLATION MIGHT BE.
AND, UH, OBVIOUSLY THAT BECAME PUBLIC.
AND WHEN WE WERE CALLED UPON TO DEFEND THE LEGISLATION, UH, WE WERE FACED WITH, UH, TELLING THE COURT, UH, WHY WE WERE WRONG AND WHY THE, THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, UH, WAS RIGHT.
IF WE COULD DO THAT, UH, IT, IT MADE IT MUCH MORE DIFFICULT FOR US.
AND I USED THE EXAMPLE WHEN I SPOKE TO YOU EARLIER, THERE'S THE OLD STORY ABOUT ABRAHAM LINCOLN, WHO, UH, WHILE A TRIAL LAWYER REPRESENTED A CLIENT IN THE MORNING AND D DEFENDED THE CLIENT BASED ON AN INTERPRETATION OF THE STATUTE, WENT TO LUNCH WITH THE CIRCUIT, UH, ATTORNEYS, AND CAME BACK AFTERWARDS AND WAS DEFENDING ANOTHER CLIENT, UH, BASED ON A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION, THE OPPOSITE INTERPRETATION OF THE STATUTE.
THE JUDGE SAID TO MR. LINCOLN, UH, WHY, UH, YOU WERE HERE THIS MORNING AND YOU ARGUED JUST THE OPPOSITE.
HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY ARGUE THAT SOMETHING DIFFERENT THIS AFTERNOON? AND HE SAID, WELL, I WENT TO LUNCH AND I THOUGHT ABOUT IT.
UH, THAT WAS SORT OF, UH, A, AN AWKWARD POSITION FOR HIM, I'M SURE, BUT AWKWARD AS WELL FOR US.
AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE ARE TIMES WHEN, UH, YOU, WHENEVER YOU HAVE LAWYERS, UH, AND SINCE I UNDERSTAND A LOT OF YOU ARE LAWYERS, UH, THERE'S SOMETHING I WAS SAYING THAT IF YOU HAVE TWO LAWYERS IN A ROOM, YOU MAY HAVE THREE OR MORE OPINIONS.
AND, UH, UNFORTUNATELY THAT THAT SOMETIMES THE CASE.
SO I, I THINK IF YOU HAVE, UH, THE LAW OFFICE REPRESENTING BOTH COUNCIL AND EXECUTIVE AND ALL THE DIFFERENT AGENCIES OF THE GOVERNMENT, YOU HAVE AN OFFICE THAT'S, UH, DEDICATED TO THE MISSION THAT THE ELECTED LEADERS, UH, DETERMINE IS APPROPRIATE FOR THE GOVERNMENT.
AND YOU WORK TO PROVIDE HELP TO THE AGENCIES AND THE LEGISLATIVE BODY AND THE ELECTED, UH, OFFICIALS TO ACHIEVE THAT MISSION.
THAT WAS A HELPFUL EXPLANATION.
DOES ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. THOMPSON WHILE WE HAVE HIM?
[00:30:03]
NO, I DON'T SEE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS.WELL, MR. THOMPSON, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND EXPERTISE.
WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOU JOINING US TONIGHT.
WELL, AUSTIN'S A TERRIFIC CITY.
WE'VE HAD OUR CONFERENCE THERE A COUPLE OF TIMES, AND, UH, I KNOW EVERYONE AT IMLA ENJOYED COMING TO AUSTIN AND PROBABLY ME MOST OF ALL.
SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HAVING SUCH A WONDERFUL CITY, AND I APPRECIATE YOUR DEDICATION TO IT.
SO IS THERE ANY ADDITIONAL DISCUSSION THAT WE WANT TO HAVE ON THE CITY ATTORNEY ISSUE? I THINK IF NOT, WE WILL PLAN TO COME BACK AT THE NEXT MEETING WITH A FINAL RECOMMENDATION ON THAT POINT FOR VOTING.
NOPE, SINCE I CAME LATE, WAS THERE ANY TENTATIVE RECOMMENDATION? THE TENTATIVE RECOMMENDATION IS IN THE PACKET THAT WE PROVIDED, AND SO THE RECOMMENDATION WAS TWOFOLD.
NUMBER ONE, IT'S THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY SHOULD BE NOMINATED BY THE CITY MANAGER AND CONFIRMED BY COUNSEL.
AND THEN REMOVAL WOULD ALSO REQUIRE THAT JOINT ACTION.
AND THEN PRONG TWO, UM, IS THAT AN ATTORNEY WITHIN THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SHOULD BE APPOINTED TO SERVE AS LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL, UM, TO THE COUNSEL AND KIND OF SERVE AS A SINGLE POINT OF CONTACT.
UM, BUT FOR THE REASONS THAT MR. THOMPSON MENTIONED, WE DID ULTIMATELY FEEL THAT IT WAS BETTER TO HAVE AN ATTORNEY WITHIN THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE FOR CONSISTENCY PURPOSES RATHER THAN HAVING AN INDEPENDENT CITY ATTORNEY.
UM, OR RATHER THAN HAVING AN INDEPENDENT, UH, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL CONSULT WITH THE CITY COUNCIL.
AND JUST A CLARIFICATION IS THE FULL TEXT OF THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT, UM, I KNOW YOU SCANNER DIDN'T, IT IS NOT COOPERATE.
WE, SO WE, WE PUT TOGETHER OUR PRELIMINARY REPORT KIND OF WITH THE INTENT OF DISCUSSING IT TO SEE IF THERE WERE ANY MAJOR CONCERNS, AND THEN WE WILL COME BACK AT THE NEXT MEETING WITH A FINAL REPORT THAT WE'LL INCLUDE LANGUAGE.
UH, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR PUTTING THIS TOGETHER, WHAT YOU HAVE SHARED WITH US.
UH, I FEEL VERY COMFORTABLE WITH RECOMMENDATION NUMBER ONE.
I THINK IT IS AN ELEGANT SOLUTION BOTH TO NOT WANTING TO CHANGE THINGS TOO MUCH AND MAKING SURE THAT THE ATTORNEY IS SEEN AS ULTIMATELY OPERATING UNDER THE GUISE OF THE CITY MANAGER, BUT PROVIDING A BIT OF RESPONSIVENESS AND A, A PLACE IN THE PROCESS FOR CITY COUNCIL.
SO I APPRECIATE YOUR ELEGANT SOLUTION TO THAT, AND I AM CONFIDENT THAT, UH, MY APPOINTER WILL BE EXCITED BY IT ON NUMBER TWO.
I ALSO FEEL THIS IS A CREATIVE SOLUTION TO, UH, VERY REAL CONCERN THAT COUNCIL FROM TIME TO TIME RAISES ABOUT THEIR NEED TO HAVE A LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL THAT IS FOR THEM, UH, FOR THOSE MOMENTS WHERE THEY MIGHT WANT A SECOND OPINION OR A SLIGHTLY MORE ADVERSARIAL OPINION THAN WHAT THE, UM, CITY ATTORNEY IS PROVIDING THEM.
I THINK ONE QUESTION I HAVE ABOUT NUMBER TWO FOR YOU ALL TO RESOLVE AS YOU, AS YOU PUT TOGETHER, THE ITEM YOU'LL VOTE ON IS, UH, WHO REMOVES THAT INDIVIDUAL, UH, IN THE EVENT THAT THERE THERE IS UNSATISFACTORY PERFORMANCE OR IF IT'S, UH, PURELY AN SOMEONE THAT RESPONDS TO THE CITY ATTORNEY AND THAT'S IT, UH, IT SEEMS THAT THE, YOU WOULD WANT THEM TO BE IN A CONE OF INDEPENDENCE, AT LEAST DURING THEIR APPOINTMENT, SO THAT IF THEY DO PROVIDE ADVERSARIAL OR CONTROVERSIAL OPINIONS THAT UNDERMINE THE CITY MANAGERS AND CITY ATTORNEY'S PERSPECTIVE ON SOMETHING, THEY SIMPLY CAN'T BE RECALLED.
UM, I, I DON'T THINK THAT, UH, THE TEAM WE HAVE NOW WOULD BEHAVE IN THAT WAY, BUT WE WANT TO ANTICIPATE THAT SITUATION.
AND I WOULD JUST LOOK FOR GUIDANCE ON THAT.
AND I FEEL COMFORTABLE IF THE GUIDANCE IS, IT'S AN EMPLOYEE OF THE CITY ATTORNEY.
SO THAT'S THE STRUCTURE WE HAVE, UM, JUST AS, AS LONG AS WE CAN EXPLAIN IT TO THE PUBLIC, WHAT WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN THAT, IN THAT SITUATION.
I SUSPECT THAT THAT WILL BE THE ANSWER, BUT WE'LL LOOK AT A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT MODELS AND, UH, IN DEVELOPING THE LANGUAGE AND COME BACK WITH SOMETHING.
MADAM CHAIR, I HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION.
UM, I ASSUME THE ANSWER IS NO, BUT IS THERE ANY, UH, THAT I ASSUME THERE'S NO OPPORTUNITY FOR THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL TO, UH, REPRESENT THE CITY AND LITIGATION? UH, THIS IS, THIS IS PURELY AS A COUNCIL FOR THE LEGISLATIVE PURPOSES, BUT NOT FOR LITIGATION PURPOSES.
THAT IS, WELL, CORRECT ME IF THIS IS WRONG, BRIAN, I THINK, BUT THAT WAS HOW WE HAD ENVISIONED IT.
I, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT NECESSARILY LIMITS THEM FROM, I MEAN, THAT WOULD BE A QUESTION FOR CAROLINE TOO,
[00:35:01]
IN TERMS OF HOW THE CITY ATTORNEY STAFFS.I, I DON'T THINK WE, YOU KNOW, THIS ISN'T AN ATTEMPT TO, UH, DICTATE HOW THE CITY ATTORNEY IS STAFFING OUR TEAM.
SO, UM, YOU KNOW, WHETHER THE COUNSEL'S ATTORNEY IS ALSO REPRESENTING THE ATTORNEY IN LITIGATION, RIGHT? 'CAUSE YOU CAN ENVISION A SITUATION WHERE, UM, YOU KNOW, THE INDEPENDENCE OF THE COUNSEL YOU'RE PROVIDING TO THE RIGHT, TO THE COUNSEL, TO THE COUNSEL, UM, MAY CONFLICT WITH THE LITIGATION POSITION, OR THAT THERE COULD BE SOME, UH, CONFLICT THERE IN A LITIGATION POSTURE, WHICH WOULD BE GOOD FOR THE CITY.
WELL, AND I THINK, I MEAN, THE EXAMPLE THAT MR. THOMPSON GAVE, I THINK, THINK WAS COMPELLING, AT LEAST TO ME, UM, IN THAT IF YOU HAVE AN ATTORNEY WITHIN THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, AT LEAST YOU'RE, YOU'RE MORE LIKELY TO HAVE KIND OF CONSISTENCY IN LEGAL OPINIONS AND HOPEFULLY THEN CONSISTENCY FROM A POLICY MAKING LEVEL ALL THE WAY UP TO, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S CHALLENGED IN LITIGATION, UM, IF YOU HAVE SOMEONE WITHIN THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE VERSUS SOMEONE WHO'S INDEPENDENT.
WOULD THAT ROLE HAVE DIRECT INTERACTION WITH THE, UM, GOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS OFFICE? WOULD THEY BE HOUSED THERE? WE SORT OF HAVE TO.
SO DON MEAN I DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND THIS PROPOSAL BECAUSE I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT IT'S ADDRESSING REALLY.
SO WHEN YOU SAY THERE'S A LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, THAT'S A PERSON WITHIN THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.
AND SO THE INTERGOVERNMENTAL INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS OFFICE DEALS WITH THE STATE LEGISLATURE AMONG OTHER THINGS.
SO I DON'T THINK THE LEG WORD LEGISLATURE'S NOT USED IN THAT.
WE'RE USING IT IN TWO DIFFERENT WAYS.
SO I THINK THAT THAT REALLY IS WHAT I MEANT TO CLARIFY.
THE STATE LEGISLATURE WOULDN'T BE.
YES, WE HAVE AN I-I-G-R-O OFFICE THAT HANDLES OUR LIAISONS WITH US, WITH THE, UM, STATE LEGISLATURE WHEN WE'RE REVIEWING BILLS AND PROVIDING FEEDBACK, ET CETERA.
I'M USING THE TERM LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL BECAUSE IT'S CLEARER THAN SAYING THE COUNCIL'S COUNCIL, BUT IT IS INTENDED TO BE, YOU KNOW, THE COUNCIL TO THE CITY COUNCIL.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS BEFORE WE MOVE ON? WELL, I'M, I'M ASSUMING THIS WILL BE ADDRESSED IN YOUR NEXT MEMO, BUT IS THERE ANY SENSE OF HOW THIS WOULD AFFECT STAFFING? UH, NO.
I THINK WE WILL NEED TO GET A FISCAL IMPACT, UM, THAT IS PART OF OUR RECOMMENDATION.
AND SO WE'LL NEED TO WORK WITH CAROLINE TO DETERMINE, UM, YOU KNOW, STAFFING WISE IF THEY WOULD NEED AN ADDITIONAL FTE POSITION FOR, TO STAFF THIS ROLE.
BUT YOU DON'T ANTICIPATE MORE THAN JUST ONE ADDITIONAL POSITION? I, I, I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND THAT'S, AT LEAST INITIALLY, I THINK THAT'S THE, UH, VISION, UH, WOULD BE ONE PERSON.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ON ITEM NUMBER THREE? OKAY.
AND FOR CLARITY, BEFORE WE MOVE ON, I KNOW MS. CHANG HAD, UH, RAISED A QUESTION ABOUT WHO WAS ON THE WORKING GROUPS.
AND SO THAT DISCUSSION, UH, WAS BROUGHT BY THE CITY ATTORNEY WORKING GROUP, WHICH IS MYSELF, UH, COMMISSIONER GARCIA AND MIKE GN.
AND SO I SEE ON OUR ZOOM, UM, THAT WE HAVE DR.
AND SO I AM GOING TO TAKE AN AGENDA ITEM OUT OF ORDER.
[7. Discussion and possible action regarding community engagement of the Charter Review process from the Outreach Work Group. ]
ITEM NUMBER SEVEN, WHICH IS DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT OF THE CHARTER REVIEW PROCESS FROM THE OUTREACH WORK GROUP.UM, WE HAVE COMMISSIONER LASH AND GARCIA AND MYSELF ON THE OUTREACH WORKING GROUP.
UM, WE HAVE BEEN WORKING ON PUBLIC OUTREACH, AS YOU ALL KNOW.
WE DID OUR SPEAK UP AUSTIN PAGE, AND NOW WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON SCHEDULING TOWN HALL MEETINGS.
SCHOOLER, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DO NOT KNOW HIM, UM, AS FORMER, I'M NOT ENTIRELY SURE EXACTLY WHAT YOUR POSITION AT THE CITY WAS, DR.
SCHOOLER, BUT I KNOW THAT YOU SPECIALIZED IN PUBLIC PARTICIPATION, UM, AND PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT WHEN YOU WERE HERE.
SCHOOLER IS, IS A PROFESSOR, UM, AT THE MOODY COLLEGE OF COMMUNICATIONS, UM, SPECIALIZING IN THE SAME THINGS ALONG WITH, UH, CONFLICT RESOLUTION AND FACILITATION.
AND SO WE INVITED HIM HERE AS WE'RE DISCUSSING THE STRUCTURE AND CADENCE OF OUR TOWN HALL MEETINGS, UM, SO THAT WE CAN ASK HIM QUESTIONS, UM, ABOUT KIND OF WHAT'S THE BEST WAY TO ENGAGE WITH FOLKS ON THE ISSUES THAT WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US.
UM, BECAUSE I KNOW LAST TIME WE TALKED ABOUT THE TOWN HALLS, THERE WERE A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT SHOULD WE DO THEM VIRTUALLY? SHOULD WE DO THEM IN PERSON? YOU KNOW, SHOULD WE DO THEM ALL AT CITY HALL OR SHOULD WE TRY TO KIND OF SPREAD THEM ACROSS DIFFERENT LOCATIONS IN THE CITY? AND SO DR.
SCHOOLER IS THE PERFECT PERSON TO, UM, ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS FOR US AND ALSO TO JUST KIND OF GENERALLY WEIGH IN ON THE STRUCTURE OF THE TOWN HALL.
SCHOOLER, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR SERVICE.
AND YOU'VE, I MET WITH OUR WORKING GROUP SEVERAL TIMES.
I DO WANNA MENTION DEVOTED A LOT OF TIME, UM, TO OUR CAUSE SO FAR.
[00:40:01]
YOUR TIME AND BEING HERE TONIGHT.SO WE, AS YOU KNOW, LAST TIME WE DECIDED WE ARE GOING TO HAVE MULTIPLE TOWN HALL MEETINGS.
UM, AND THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION AROUND WHEN WE HOLD THESE TOWN HALL MEETINGS, IF WE WAIT UNTIL WE HAVE A FINAL REPORT OR IF IT'S BETTER TO GO AHEAD AND, UM, YOU KNOW, GET INPUT BEFORE OUR RECOMMENDATIONS ARE FINALIZED.
AND I THINK I HEARD FROM YOU ALL SPECIFICALLY RELATED TO THE PETITION THRESHOLD AND MOVING THE ELECTION DATES, THAT IT WOULD BE BETTER TO GET PUBLIC PARTICIPATION EARLIER IN THE PROCESS BEFORE WE ISSUE FINAL RECOMMENDATIONS BECAUSE WE FELT LIKE WE NEEDED THAT INPUT, UM, IN ORDER TO MAKE A DECISION.
AND SO MYRNA SENT OUT A POLL FOLLOWING OUR MEETING, AND IT LOOKS LIKE WE WILL HAVE A QUORUM AVAILABLE ON FEBRUARY 8TH.
AND SO WE ARE PLANNING, UM, THAT'S A THURSDAY.
UM, SO WE ARE PLANNING OUR NEXT TOWN HALL OR OUR FIRST TOWN HALL MEETING FOR FEBRUARY 8TH.
UM, THAT WILL BE HERE AT CITY HALL.
UM, IT WILL, WE WILL HAVE OPPORTUNITIES FOR VIRTUAL AND IN-PERSON PARTICIPATION, I THINK IS THE, IS THE PLAN.
AND WE'VE KIND OF TALKED THROUGH WITH DR.
SCHOOLER, A GE A GENERAL STRUCTURE FOR WHAT THAT MEETING IS GONNA LOOK LIKE.
BUT WE WILL NEED HELP FROM YOU ALL AND FROM THE WORKING GROUPS AND KIND OF FORMING THE SPECIFIC QUESTIONS THAT WE WANNA ASK.
AND SO THE, UM, GENERAL STRUCTURE THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED IS WE'LL HAVE, YOU KNOW, IT WILL BE AN HOUR LONG, ROUGHLY AN HOUR, UM, BECAUSE WE FEEL LIKE, ESPECIALLY IF WE'RE HOLDING IT MID-AFTERNOON, WE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO HOLD PEOPLE'S ATTENTION FOR MUCH LONGER THAN THAT.
IT WILL START WITH A BRIEF INTRODUCTION TO THE ISSUES, UM, THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH AND THE SPECIFIC FEEDBACK THAT WE'RE LOOKING TO GET FROM PEOPLE.
AND THEN WE WILL HAVE SOME TARGETED QUESTIONS, UM, DESIGNED TO PROVIDE INPUT ON ITEMS THAT WE ARE SEEKING TO PROVIDE INPUT ON.
AND I, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT VARIOUS WAYS OF POSING THESE QUESTIONS.
SCHOOLER, WE LOOKED INTO THE LIKERT SCALE, WHICH IS KIND OF A RANGE OF, YOU KNOW, ONE TO 10.
HOW MUCH DO YOU LIKE THIS IDEA? UM, WE'RE STILL KIND OF WAITING TO HEAR BACK IF, UM, FROM A TECHNOLOGY STANDPOINT WE CAN, WE CAN DO THAT, BUT THAT'S KIND OF THE GENERAL STRUCTURE OF THE MEETING SO FAR, SO, OR THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED SO FAR.
SCHOOLER, IF YOU WANT TO KIND OF WEIGH IN AT THIS POINT ON, YOU KNOW, BEST PRACTICES FOR PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT TOWN HALL MEETINGS, UM, AND THEN MAYBE WE CAN KICK IT OVER TO THE COMMISSIONERS FOR QUESTIONS AND ADDITIONAL DISCUSSION.
WELL, THANKS AGAIN FOR THE CHANCE TO VISIT WITH YOU ALL.
I THINK, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS I WOULD, UM, JUST BE THINKING ABOUT IS, IS EVEN JUST THE NOMENCLATURE OF TOWN HALL, YOU KNOW, UH, I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY IN THE ROOM IS FROM NEW ENGLAND, BUT THEY HAVE TOWN MEETINGS AND, YOU KNOW, EACH PERSON GETS A VOTE IN, IN TOWNS OF A CERTAIN SIZE.
AND OF COURSE, THAT'S NOT WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE.
UM, AND I ALSO FEEL LIKE SOMETIMES WHEN PEOPLE HERE TOWN HALL, THEY, UH, INSTANTLY CONJURE UP, YOU KNOW, SORT OF PEOPLE TAKING TURNS AT A MICROPHONE AND, AND IT SORT OF BEING ANYTHING GOES.
AND I THINK JAR AND I, AND, AND THE WORKING GROUP TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, STRUCTURE THAT FEELS MORE LIKE A CONVERSATION WHERE THERE IS SOME FRAMING AT THE BEGINNING TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE ISSUES THAT ARE IN PLAY AND, AND WHAT WE'RE HERE TO TALK ABOUT AND, AND WHAT THE QUESTIONS ON THE TABLE ARE.
UM, BUT HOPEFULLY THERE WOULD BE A WAY TO, UH, DESIGN THINGS SUCH THAT IT, IT FELT MORE LIKE AN EXCHANGE OF VIEWPOINTS AS OPPOSED TO A SERIES OF SPEECHES.
AND THE MAIN REASON FOR DOING THAT IS, YOU KNOW, ULTIMATELY AT SOME POINT YOU'RE LIKELY TO HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING AT CITY COUNCIL OR, OR SOMETHING LIKE IT.
AND THAT'S REALLY, UH, SORT OF A RESERVED SPOT FOR, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE JUST TO COME UP TO THE MICROPHONE AND TAKE THEIR THREE MINUTES.
AND SO I JUST ENCOURAGE FOLKS NOT TO, TO REPLICATE THAT OR REINVENT THAT WHEEL, BUT INSTEAD TO CREATE SOMETHING THAT FEELS MORE INCLUSIVE AND, AND MORE, UM, MORE LIKE A DIALOGUE WHERE IT'S, IT'S LESS ABOUT PERSUADING OTHERS AND MORE JUST ABOUT, UM, HEARING EACH OTHER'S VIEWS AND, AND YOU ALL HEARING THOSE VIEWS.
DOES, DO ANY OF THE COMMISSIONERS HAVE ANY THOUGHTS OR FEEDBACK ON THE STRUCTURE OF THIS TOWN HALL, SPECIFICALLY ON FEBRUARY 8TH? SO, ARE WE OR NOT GOING TO ALLOW, UM, THE PUBLIC TO GIVE THEIR FEEDBACK EXCEPT BY VOTING ON THAT LIKERT SCALE? UH, THE LIKERT SCALE WAS ONE TOOL THAT WE WERE THINKING OF USING, BUT NOT EXCLUSIVELY.
SO THE IDEA WAS IN KIND OF DEVELOPING OUR QUESTIONS, WE WANNA START WITH QUESTIONS THAT ARE EASY, WHERE PEOPLE WILL GET ENGAGED
[00:45:01]
AND THEN WORK UP TO THE HARD QUESTIONS.WE DON'T WANNA START WITH THE HARD QUESTIONS NECESSARILY, ALTHOUGH MAYBE PEOPLE WON'T HAVE AN ISSUE COMING UP TO THE MIC AND EXPRESSING THEIR OPINIONS ON THOSE.
I DIDN'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT YOU.
I, I JUST WANTED TO SHARE THAT, YOU KNOW, TO THE COMMISSIONER'S QUESTION, I, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE A MIX OF WAYS FOR PEOPLE TO RESPOND, IN PART BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE REALLY WON'T NECESSARILY HAVE THEIR THOUGHTS FORMULATED INTO KIND OF A DISCOURSE.
THEY'RE MORE JUST THERE TO KIND OF LEARN AND, AND GIVE, YOU KNOW, A BRIEF OPINION.
BUT THERE ARE GONNA BE THOSE FOLKS WHO HAVE SOMETHING MORE IN DEPTH TO SHARE.
AND SO THAT'S WHERE HAVING AN OPEN-ENDED DISCUSSION PROMPT WOULD BE REALLY NICE.
INSTEAD OF JUST, OKAY, NOW WE'LL TAKE ANY SPEAKERS.
IT'S, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS AROUND WHATEVER IT IS, SIGNATURE THRESHOLD, OR, YOU KNOW, HOW YOU GET ITEMS ON A BALLOT OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE.
AND ENCOURAGING PEOPLE NOT TO NECESSARILY COME TO A MIC SO MUCH AS, YOU KNOW, WELL, I'M LARRY AND I THINK THIS AND THAT, AND THEN THE NEXT PERSON SHARES SOME OF THEIR THOUGHTS AND MAYBE I'M ALLOWED TO RESPOND AT SOME POINT ONCE THAT PERSON IS FINISHED.
UM, BUT LESS OF SORT OF A, OKAY, IT'S YOUR TURN, YOU GET THREE MINUTES, WE'RE NOT GONNA INTERRUPT YOU.
UM, IF WE'RE GONNA LET PEOPLE HAVE THREE MINUTES, BECAUSE I DO THINK PEOPLE SHOW UP BECAUSE THEY'VE GOT SOMETHING TO SAY OFTENTIMES, SOMETIMES THEY JUST, IT COULD TAKE MORE THAN AN HOUR.
UM, AND I IMAGINE THIS, YOU KNOW, NICE SOFTWARE WHERE PEOPLE PUT IN THE CLICKER, WHETHER THEY'RE ONE TO 10, UM, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT THE CITY HAS THAT KIND OF, UM, OPTION AVAILABLE.
I THINK THERE'S POLL EVERYWHERE THAT YOU CAN DO WITH YOUR OWN PHONE, WHICH MIGHT BE KIND OF THAT.
AND IT SHOWS UP ON THE SCREEN HOW MANY VOTED EACH WAY.
UM, BUT I THINK WE SHOULD ALSO GIVE PAPER SURVEYS WHERE PEOPLE CAN HAVE LONGER COMMENTS THAN JUST THREE OR SEVEN OR HOWEVER THEY FEEL ABOUT A QUESTION.
AND JUST TO THE, THE POLL EVERYWHERE PIECE, AND, AND PLEASE, YOU KNOW, KNOW THAT I'M, I'M PAID NOTHING.
I'M, I'M COMPENSATED IN NO WAY BY POLL EVERYWHERE OR
UH, BUT, UH, ME NEITHER POLL EVERYWHERE,
SO NOT ONLY CAN YOU DO THE MULTIPLE CHOICE WHERE THE KIND OF BAR GRAPH POPULATES AS YOU GO, BUT YOU CAN ALSO DO A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT, UH, OPEN-ENDED TYPE QUESTIONS, YOU KNOW, INCLUDING, UM, YOU KNOW, GETTING PEOPLE TO THROW SUGGESTIONS UP AND THEN OTHERS CAN, YOU KNOW, THUMB UP A SUGGESTION THAT THEY, LIKE YOU CAN DO, UM, UH, RANKING OF A SET OF PRIORITIES YOU CAN DO, UH, JUST AN OPEN-ENDED QUESTION THAT IMMEDIATELY POPULATES AS A WORD CLOUD SO THAT YOU CAN JUST GET A SENSE FOR SOME OF THE TRENDING THEMES ACROSS THE ANSWERS.
AND I, I MENTIONED ALL OF THAT, NOT BECAUSE OF THE WHIZZBANG OF THE TECHNOLOGY, BUT JUST BECAUSE THERE'S, THERE'S A, A CERTAIN COMFORT FOR SOME PEOPLE IN THE ANONYMITY OF THAT.
UM, AND IT ALSO ALLOWS YOU TO SCALE AND GET MORE RESPONSES THAN YOU CAN JUST BY CALLING ON SUCCESSIVE PEOPLE.
SO THE COMBINATION, I THINK, IS USEFUL TO HAVE ALONGSIDE AN ANALOG OPTION BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE WILL JUST ISSUE THE TECHNOLOGY, UH, NO MATTER WHAT.
AND SOME PEOPLE DON'T LIKE TO SPEAK IN PUBLIC.
AND, AND SOMETIMES WHAT YOU HAVE IN THESE, IN THESE SETTINGS ARE PEOPLE WHO, UM, ARE PARTICULARLY OUTSPOKEN AND SORT OF MAKE IT APPEAR AS IF THEY ARE, UH, REPRESENTATIVE OF THE MAJORITY POINT OF VIEW, WHETHER THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, GOOD INTENTION, BAD INTENTION OR WHATNOT.
THEY, THEY ACT AS IF THEY ARE SPEAKING FOR, YOU KNOW, A LARGE POPULATION.
AND, AND PART OF WHAT POLL EVERYWHERE HELPS US TO DO IS REALLY TEST THAT, YOU KNOW, TO SEE HOW WIDESPREAD THAT PERSON'S POINT OF VIEW ACTUALLY IS.
SCHOOLER, THIS IS, UH, JULIO GONZALEZ.
ANO, HOPE YOU'RE DOING WELL, MY FRIEND.
I'M SO GLAD YOU'RE HELPING US, LARRY.
AND I WANT TO GO BACK INTO SOME OF YOUR GREATEST HITS.
UH, SO I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER THE, UH, THE AQUATICS, THE COMMUNITY AQUATICS FORUM, UH, AND THE, UH, 13, I THINK IT WAS 13, DECEMBER 13, UH, LIGHT RAIL DISCUSSION.
AND I THOUGHT THOSE, THOSE WERE TWO OF, UH, YOUR MASTERPIECES, UH, FROM YOUR TIME FACILITATING.
AND, UH, ONE OF THE, WHAT I LIKED ABOUT BOTH OF THEM IS THAT IT WAS NOT THE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE IN THE QUEUE WAITING TO DUMP THEIR THREE MINUTES AND JUST, UH, SAY THEIR PIECE, BUT RATHER, UH, YOU HAD A DIFFERENT SETS OF PEOPLE WITH EXPERTISE PROVIDING DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES.
AND THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT OF LIKE DELIBERATION.
[00:50:01]
KNOW IF IN THE RAIL ONE YOU DID BEFORE AND AFTER, UH, I, I HOLD, HOLD IT IN SUCH HIGH REGARD IN TERMS OF YOUR PAST WORK THAT I THINK YOU MIGHT HAVE, BUT MAYBE NOT.BUT I THINK BEING ABLE TO, UH, HELP PEOPLE HERE, DIFFERENT PIECES OF WHAT WE ARE DOING AND HOW WE ENDED UP WHERE WE MAY END UP AND THEN DOING LIKE HER, UH, MIGHT BE USEFUL.
I DO THINK THE INTERACTIVE EXERCISE FOR US IS PROBABLY BETTER THAN, AS YOU SAID, WHAT CITY COUNCIL'S GONNA GET, WHICH IS ACTIVE CITIZENS GIVING THEIR THREE MINUTES ON THINGS THAT THEY CARE A LOT ABOUT.
UH, ALSO THE TIME OF DAY, UH, BECAUSE OF THE CONSTRAINTS THAT WE HAVE.
I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I HOPE YOU WILL, UH, UH, PROVIDE, UH, GUIDANCE ON TO THE OUTREACH WORK GROUP IS HOW MUCH STUFF WE TRULY CAN GET THROUGH, UM, MM-HMM.
AND THERE MAY BE A FEW TOPICS THAT ARE HIGHLY SALIENT WHERE WE WANT TO GET THE CLICKERS GOING, AND SOME THAT ARE LESS MM-HMM.
UM, BUT I, I, I DO THINK THOSE ARE THE CONSTRAINTS THAT WE HAVE.
AND AGAIN, UH, VERY HAPPY THAT YOU ARE HELPING US OUT ON THIS.
I, I, UH, AT SOME POINT WOULD LOVE TO REGALE THE COMMISSION WITH SOME OF THE WAYS THAT, UH, THAT JULIO AND I CROSSED PATHS OVER THE YEARS.
UM, NO, I, I, I APPRECIATE YOUR, YOUR SENTIMENT AND I HADN'T REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF, UM, A DISCUSSION AS YOU PUT IT, A SORT OF A DELIBERATIVE DISCUSSION.
SO WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT IS, UH, YEARS AGO WHEN THE CITY WAS DOING AN AQUATICS ASSESSMENT, UH, THEY WANTED TO COLLECT PUBLIC INPUT.
AND PART OF WHAT WE REALIZED WAS, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE SO MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF USERS FOR CITY POOLS, UM, ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO DIDN'T LIVE NEAR ONE.
AND SO OUR, OUR PANEL INCLUDED, YOU KNOW, VERY, VERY ACTIVE SWIMMERS ALL THE WAY TO PEOPLE WHO DESPERATELY WANTED A POOL IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD AND DIDN'T, YOU KNOW, HAVE ONE AT ALL.
AND BY DOING THAT TO JULIO'S POINT, IT SORT OF HELPED SEED SOME COMMENTS FROM THE GENERAL PUBLIC ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW THEY MIGHT FEEL ABOUT SOMETHING.
THEY WOULD SORT OF HEAR A CONVERSATION AND THINK, OH, I WANNA RESPOND TO THAT, OR I WANT TO ADD SOME PERSPECTIVE TO WHAT I WAS HEARING.
SO THAT MIGHT BE APPLICABLE HERE.
IT WOULD BE, IT WOULD BE GREAT IF IT WERE, UM, THE OTHER THING THAT YOU WERE SAYING ABOUT AN HOUR, IT'S INTERESTING.
WHEN I DO THESE VIRTUALLY, I OFTEN DO, UM, KEEP IT TO AN HOUR.
UM, AND PART OF THE REASON IS THE FATIGUE THAT I THINK WE ALL FEEL WHEN WE'RE, UM, YOU KNOW, PARTICIPATING VIRTUALLY, WHETHER BY PHONE OR BY OR ON SCREEN.
AND SO A LOT OF TIMES I WILL INTRODUCE A TOPIC WITH A QUESTION THAT CAN BE ANSWERED IN A POLL STYLE FORMAT, AND THEN QUICKLY PIVOT TO MORE OF A DISCUSSION.
AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK SOME OF THIS WILL HAVE TO BE, UH, IMPROVISED IN THE SENSE THAT MAYBE YOU'RE GETTING A REALLY RICH CONVERSATION ON A PARTICULAR TOPIC.
AND SO IT JUST FEELS LIKE IT WOULD BE GOOD TO CARRY THAT FORWARD, EVEN IF IT MEANS YOU DON'T GET AS MUCH INPUT ON SOMETHING ELSE.
BUT IF YOU'VE PRELOADED SOME QUESTIONS THAT CAN BE AT LEAST QUICKLY GONE THROUGH, IF YOU'RE SHORT ON TIME, AT LEAST YOU COULD GET SOME INPUT ACROSS THAT FOUR OR FIVE TOPIC, UH, PORTFOLIO.
SO I THINK IT'S WORTH, YOU KNOW, KIND OF HAVING THOSE READY, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DEPLOY THEM ALL, BUT AT LEAST HAVING THEM READY SO THAT, UH, IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE NEEDING TO KIND OF MODIFY THE LENGTH YOU CAN.
THE ONE OTHER THING I WOULD JUST QUICKLY MENTION ABOUT WHAT JULIO WAS REFERENCING, THOSE TWO MEETINGS, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE REALLY, YOU KNOW, UH, PRIORITIZE DEPLOYING AS A AN INCLUSIONARY MEASURE WAS THE ABILITY FOR PEOPLE TO EITHER, UH, RSVP FOR THE MEETING, TO GET A PHONE CALL TO BE SORT OF CONTACTED AT THE TIME THE MEETING STARTED TO PARTICIPATE BY PHONE, UH, OR TO RSVP AND TO GET A CALL AT THE, UM, WELL, EXCUSE ME, OR, OR TO BE RANDOMLY CALLED.
SO WHAT WE WOULD DO IS WE WOULD DRAW FROM A LIST OF A FEW THOUSAND, UM, UH, NUMBERS IN PARTICULARLY AREAS WHERE WE PERCEIVE THERE TO BE LOWER INTERNET ACCESS AND JUST LOWER OVERALL, UH, TECHNOLOGY ACCESS TO WHERE PEOPLE HAD PHONES AND WE WOULD CALL OUT TO THEM.
SO THEY MIGHT JUST BE RANDOMLY, UM, GETTING A CALL, BUT CHOOSING TO PARTICIPATE.
AND THEN OTHER PEOPLE WOULD PROACTIVELY RSVP TO GET A CALL.
AND THAT MAY OR MAY NOT WORK AS WELL FOR A MIDDAY CROWD, BUT YOU NEVER KNOW.
I MEAN, IT MIGHT BE SOMETHING WORTH EXPLORING.
'CAUSE IT DID VERY MUCH DIVERSIFY THE KINDS OF PEOPLE THAT WERE PARTICIPATING BECAUSE SOME OF THEM WEREN'T SELF-SELECTING, IF YOU WILL, UH, TO, TO BE PART OF THE CONVERSATION UP FRONT.
SO I'M CURIOUS TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT.
COMMISSIONER ANO, SINCE YOU WERE AT SOUNDS LIKE AT SOME AMAZING, UH, COMMUNITY EVENTS AND YOU KNOW, OUR COMMISSION SO WELL AND THE ISSUES
[00:55:01]
THAT WE ARE KIND OF GRAPPLING WITH.DO YOU HAVE AN IDEA IN MIND FOR THIS FIRST TOWN HALL OF SORT OF WHAT THE STRUCTURE WOULD BE? UM, WHO, YOU KNOW, AND MY QUE OBVIOUSLY WE, WE HAVE DR.
I HAVE NOT ASKED HIM TO FACILITATE THAT MEETING, AND I DON'T KNOW IF HE IS AVAILABLE OR WILLING TO, AND SO I THINK IT'S GONNA BE, AT LEAST AT THIS POINT UP TO OUR COMMISSION TO KIND OF FACILITATE THAT MEETING.
WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? DO WE HAVE DIFFERENT COMMISSIONERS LEAD DIFFERENT PIECES OF IT? UM, DO WE, I'M JUST CURIOUS TO GET YOUR THOUGHTS ON HOW WE STRUCTURE THIS, BECAUSE THIS IS OUR LAST MEETING BEFORE WE HAVE THE, THE TOWN HALL ON THE EIGHTH.
THE, THE TEMPLATE, UH, WHICH DR.
KOOR ALLUDED TO WAS, UH, A MIX OF MAYBE COMMISSIONER VOICES AND COMMUNITY VOICES.
IF I WERE TO GUESS, I FEEL THAT ARE THE TOPICS THAT HAVE THE MOST, UM, ABSENCE OF CONSENSUS AT THIS MOMENT WOULD BE THE PETITION THRESHOLD.
AND IF THERE SHOULD BE ONE, SHOULD WE MOVE IT FROM THE 20 K, UH, AND MAYBE SOME OF THE OTHER REQUIREMENTS, UH, AROUND MOVING TO NOVEMBER MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTIONS PERHAPS.
I DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE AN ABSENCE OF CONSENSUS.
I THINK THE COMMUNITY MIGHT WANNA UNDERSTAND WHY WE'RE SAYING WE'RE GOING TO MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT SLOWER TO GET ON THE BALLOT.
PERHAPS SOME OF THE RECALL TOPICS OR THE RECALL TOPIC OR SOME OF THOSE ASPECTS OF THAT, UH, SET OF DISCUSSIONS WE'VE HAD.
UH, AND SO THE, IF WE WERE TO USE COMMUNITY VOICES TO FILL IN THE DISCUSSION, IT WOULD BE MAYBE SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE COME AND, AND SPOKEN PLUS COMMISSIONERS SO THAT FOLKS GET A SET OF PERSPECTIVES.
UM, AND THEN THE, THE, THE SECOND PART, WHICH WAS I WAS REFERENCING SORT OF WITH THE, UM, WITH THE RAIL DISCUSSION IS IT WAS A, A COMPLICATED DISCUSSION AND THERE WAS AN ATTEMPT AT GETTING MORE PEOPLE ENGAGED, UH, TO GET A BROADER SET OF PERSPECTIVES.
I DON'T KNOW IF WE ARE IN A LOGISTICAL PLACE TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT.
UH, AT LEAST WE START WITH THE UNIVERSE OF FOLKS WE, UH, COMMUNICATED WITH FOR OUR SURVEY.
BUT TRYING TO GET, UM, THOSE FOLKS WHO MAY HAVE THOUGHT A LOT ABOUT PETITION THRESHOLD BUT NOT RECALL OR MIGHT BE SURPRISED THAT WE'RE THINKING ABOUT MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTION, UH, AND, AND GETTING THEM TO, UH, THINK ABOUT THAT, THAT IS MY FIRST REACTION TO, UM, TO YOUR, YOUR FEEDBACK.
AND SO IT WOULD BE A SKIPPING THE THREE MINUTES EXERCISE OF FOLKS COMING IN, UH, DOWNLOADING THEIR, THEIR PERSPECTIVES.
BUT, UH, THAT IS MY, UH, COLLAGE BASED ON MEMORIES IN YOUR QUESTION.
WE'VE GOT AN EXPERT AND SO LET'S LISTEN TO WHAT THE EXPERT THINKS ABOUT THAT
WELL IT SOUNDS, IT SOUNDS GREAT THE WAY, UH, THE COMMISSIONER WAS DESCRIBING IT, AND ONE THOUGHT THAT WAS COMING TO MIND AS HE WAS TALKING WAS, YOU KNOW, WHILE WE CAN CERTAINLY TALK ABOUT MY HELPING ON SITE, I, I THINK THAT THE COMMISSIONERS PROBABLY HAVE, IF NOT THE ENTIRETY OF THE SKILLSET, AT LEAST ENOUGH OF THE SKILLSET THAT, THAT I COULD MAYBE DO SOME COACHING TO ENABLE YOU TO FACILITATE THE KIND OF CONVERSATION THAT I THINK YOU WANT TO HAVE.
AND WHAT I MEAN IS, YOU KNOW, THE GOAL OF THIS IS TO ENABLE PEOPLE TO MAKE THEIR VOICES HEARD ON THE TOPICS THAT, AS THE COMMISSIONER REFERENCED, YOU ALL STILL FEEL YOU NEED SOME, UH, CONSENSUS ON OR SOME, YOU KNOW, SENSE OF HOW THE COMMUNITY FEELS ABOUT IT.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, THROUGH SOME VERY KIND OF RUDIMENTARY, YOU KNOW, UM, UH, TUTORIAL OR WHATEVER, I THINK THAT ESPECIALLY IF YOU ALTERNATED OR CO-FACILITATED, I THINK THAT YOU WOULD FIND THAT YOU COULD KEEP A CONVERSATION FLOWING RATHER THAN FEELING AS IF IT WERE JUST, YOU KNOW, THESE, UH, EXTENDED, UH, TREATISES ON THE TOPIC AS A WHOLE THAT, YOU KNOW, WOULDN'T NECESSARILY HOLD PEOPLE'S, UH, ATTENTION.
SO THAT'S THE KIND OF THING THAT I THINK THE COMMUNITY WOULD APPRECIATE IF, IF THEY HAD THAT OPPORTUNITY AND IT WOULD FEEL LESS INTIMIDATING THAN WHAT IT OFTEN CAN FEEL LIKE COMING TO CITY HALL AND, AND, UH, MAKING YOUR VOICE HEARD.
I KNOW THIS IS VIRTUAL, BUT, UM, I THINK SOMETIMES THAT CAN BE VERY INTIMIDATING FOR FOLKS WHO DON'T, UH, NORMALLY SPEAK IN PUBLIC, YOU KNOW, DON'T NORMALLY PREPARE SPEECHES IN PUBLIC, BUT WOULD LIKE TO, TO GIVE THEIR OPINION.
[01:00:01]
THAT'S HELPFUL.ANY OTHER THOUGHTS? COMMISSIONER GREENBERG? I CAN IMAGINE SORT OF SPLITTING UP THE TOPICS AND IF THERE'S A CERTAIN TOPIC, UM, LIKE THE ONE THAT'S ON THE AGENDA FOR INCREASING TRANSPARENCY, UM, THAT MIGHT BE THE EASIEST ONE WHERE WE GET SORT OF AGREEMENT, UM, AND GOING THROUGH TOPICS WHERE THERE'S SOMEBODY TO ADVOCATE FOR A CERTAIN POSITION AND THEN WE ASK HOW MANY PEOPLE AGREE WITH THIS POSITION AND HOW MANY PEOPLE DISAGREE OR WHERE DO YOU STAND ON A SPECTRUM, UM, OF AGREEMENT VERSUS DISAGREEMENT? UM, FOR THIS PROPOSAL, EVEN IF ONE OF THE PROPOSALS IS, I THINK WE HAVE IN OUR BACKUP TODAY, LEAVE THE NUMBER OF SIGNATURES AS IS, THAT COULD BE ONE OF THE PROPOSALS.
ANOTHER COULD BE CHANGE IT TO A PERCENTAGE INSTEAD OF A FIXED NUMBER.
BUT, UM, SOMEONE HAS TO ADVOCATE FOR EACH OF THOSE CHANGES.
AND THEN MAYBE BACK TO THE CHAIR TO ASK THE QUESTIONS AND ALLOW SPEAKERS ON THE TOPIC.
UM, AND INVOLVED, AND WE MIGHT NOT GET THROUGH IT ALL IN A ONE HOUR, BUT WE COULD SORT OF PRIORITIZE WHAT WE WANNA ASK.
FIRST ONE QUICK NOTE CHAIR, IF I COULD, PART OF WHAT COMMISSIONER GREENBERG AND AND COMMISSIONER ALONA WERE TALKING ABOUT TAKES ME BACK TO A FORMAT THAT SOME OF YOU MAY BE FAMILIAR WITH.
NOTE AS DELIBERATIVE POLLING, UH, WHICH IS CREDITED TO AMONG OTHER PEOPLE.
JAMES FISHKIN, WHO GOT HIS START DOING IT AT UT AND IS NOW AT STANFORD AND WHOSE SON LEO AND I KNOW FROM YALE.
BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, DUCK FISHKINS PREMISE WAS JUST ASKING PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, REFLEXIVELY LIKE WHAT'S YOUR OPINION ON SOMETHING CAN YIELD SOME VALUE.
BUT IF YOU CAN EITHER ASK THEM INITIALLY FOR THEIR OPINION AND THEN SHARE A MULTITUDE OF OPINIONS AND THEN ASK AGAIN OR SHARE THE MULTITUDE OF OPINIONS FROM THE, THE DS OR THE PANEL AND THEN GET REACTIONS TO IT CAN BE MORE FRUITFUL IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, GIVING YOU A SENSE OF WHAT PEOPLE TRULY THINK AND FEEL.
'CAUSE THEY'RE COMING AT IT FROM A PLACE OF, OF INFORMATION RATHER THAN JUST, YOU KNOW, POLITICAL PREFERENCE.
SO REALLY WANT TO SUPPORT THAT AS A, AS A TOOL THAT'S BEEN USED PRETTY WIDELY.
ANY OTHER THOUGHTS OR COMMENTS ON THE FORMAT GENERALLY? NO.
COMMISSIONER ORTEGA, I'D JUST LIKE TO SAY I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER GREENBERG.
SO IT SOUNDS LIKE WE HAVE SOME GOOD STRUCTURE FOR THE, UM, OR GOOD FEEDBACK FOR THE STRUCTURE OF THE MEETING.
SO WE HAVE, WE DO HAVE A QUORUM OF COMMISSIONERS THAT ARE AVAILABLE, UM, ON FEBRUARY 8TH.
AND MYRNA, I KNOW THERE WERE SOME TIME RESTRICTIONS, BUT WE NEED TO DECIDE KIND OF WHEN WE WANNA HOLD THE MEETING.
AND, UM, THERE ARE SEVEN WHO HAVE CONFIRMED WHATEVER MYRNA RIO SAYS IS THE LAW.
THERE ARE SEVEN WHO ARE CONFIRMED.
UM, BUT I BELIEVE ONE CAN ONLY DO IN THE EVENING.
SO THERE IS A CHANCE THAT YOU MAY LOSE QUORUM.
UM, AND DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER, I KNOW YOU HAD PROPOSED A FEW DIFFERENT DATES.
DID WE HAVE ANY OTHER DATES WHERE WE HAD QUORUM? IT'S, UM, I PROVIDED, UM, RECOMMENDATIONS.
THEY SHOULD BE IN YOUR PACKET AND I BELIEVE IT'S THE SECOND TO THE LAST FORM.
SO THOSE ARE THE OTHER, UM, PROPOSED DATES THAT WE WERE ABLE TO PULL, IF ANY OF THEM WORK.
I DIDN'T GET A CHANCE TO TO RESPOND TO THAT, BUT I AM AVAILABLE THE, THE EVENING OF THE EIGHTH.
SO, SO WE COULD POTENTIALLY LOSE A COMMISSIONER IN THE EVENING BUT GAIN A COMMISSIONER.
SO WE WOULD STILL HAVE SEVEN THEN IF WE HELD.
'CAUSE I BELIEVE, I KNOW ONE OF THE COMMISSIONERS WAS NOT AVAILABLE AFTER 6:00 PM AND THEN WE HAD ONE THAT WAS NOT AVAILABLE UNTIL 6:00 PM I THINK.
SO SIX MADAM CHAIR, SIX MEMBERS HAVE STATED THEY ARE AVAILABLE AT ANY TIME.
ARE WE ALLOWED TO DO A SHOW OF HANDS TONIGHT AS TO WHO IS AVAILABLE FROM THIS CURRENT GROUP? WE CAN, I'M NOT SURE.
I THINK COMMISSIONER LASH HAD TO STEP OUT, BUT IF WE, AND COMMISSIONER DWYER, IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND EMAILING, UH, MYRNA WITH YOUR AVAILABILITY.
FEBRUARY 8TH, WHICH IS THURSDAY.
YOU HAVE IT? I HAVE, IF YOU'D LIKE, I CAN READ OUT WHO I HAVE, IF THAT'S OKAY WITH YOU.
SO COMMISSIONER DWYER IS AVAILABLE ALL
[01:05:01]
DAY ON THE EIGHTH.UM, CHAIR VINNO IS AVAILABLE ON THE EIGHTH ANYTIME AFTER TWO 30.
COMMISSIONER LASH, I DO NOT HAVE HER, SHE WAS ONLY AVAILABLE ON THE SECOND.
UH, COMMISSIONER VAN MANON IS AVAILABLE ALL DAY ON THE EIGHTH.
COMMISSIONER ORTEGA AVAILABLE ALL DAY ON THE EIGHTH AS WELL AS, UH, COMMISSIONER GREEN GREENBERG CA, COMMISSIONER MCGIVEN, UM, AVAILABLE ON THE EIGHTH AFTER SIX O'CLOCK.
AND COMMISSIONER BOTKIN AVAILABLE ALL DAY ON THE EIGHTH AND NOW CAL'S ON IS ALSO AVAILABLE BUT IN THE EVENING.
SO THAT LEAVES US WITH SIX THAT CAN ATTEND AT ANY TIME.
AND IF IT SOUNDS LIKE THOUGH, IF WE DO 6:00 PM OR AFTER, WE'LL HAVE SEVEN.
SO THAT SOUNDS LIKE THE WINNER THEN.
DID YOU HAVE COMMENT? COULD YOU REPEAT THE WINNER? JUST TO CONFIRM? SO WINTER IS GOING TO BE FEBRUARY 8TH MM-HMM.
SCHOOLER, IF THERE'S A MAGIC TIME, UM, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF TIMES I WOULD HOLD VIRTUAL OR OR TELEVISED MEETINGS AT 7:00 PM OKAY.
AND I DON'T KNOW THAT I HAVE DATA, BUT YOU KNOW, MY EXPERIENCE WAS THAT AT SEVEN, YOU KNOW, FOLKS ARE HOME, THEY MAY HAVE EATEN DINNER, BUT THEY'RE NOT QUITE LIKE DOWN FOR THE NIGHT IN TERMS OF GETTING READY FOR BED
SO, AND, AND OF COURSE YOU HAVE PEOPLE WITH YOUNG KIDS.
I MEAN, YOU'RE NEVER GONNA GET THE EXACT RIGHT TIME, BUT SEVEN JUST NOW FELT LIKE A, A MORE UNIVERSALLY AVAILABLE TIME.
OUR FIRST TOWN HALL WILL BE FEBRUARY 8TH AT 7:00 PM UM, AND WE WILL WORK WITH MIA, UM, AND THE CITY STAFF TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT GETS PUSHED OUT ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND THE APPROPRIATE CHANNELS, UM, SO THAT WE CAN HOPEFULLY ENSURE THAT WE HAVE GOOD PARTICIPATION AT THAT MEETING.
AND THEN WE DO HAVE SOME PROPOSED DATES.
UM, I THINK THE EASIEST WAY TO GET AVAILABILITY ON THESE, MAYBE IF WE SEND THEM OUT BY EMAIL AND THEN EVERYONE CAN RESPOND.
UH, AND BASED ON THAT WE CAN DECIDE FOR A SECOND.
I THINK WE'RE STILL, ARE WE STILL IN AGREEMENT TWO TOWN HALL MEETINGS IS APPROPRIATE OR DO WE WANNA TRY TO SHOOT FOR THREE? I DON'T SEE ANY CHAIR VERY QUICKLY ON THAT FIRST TOWN HALL.
IT'S GOING TO BE HERE IN BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS.
SCHOOLER FEEL FREE TO WEIGH IN HERE.
UM, BUT I THINK THE WORKING GROUP THOUGHT WAS THAT THIS BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS ROOM IS A LITTLE MORE INFORMAL AND CONDUCIVE TO DISCUSSION, INTERACTIVE DISCUSSION, UM, VERSUS BEING IN CHAMBERS WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT MORE FORMAL.
AND SO WE THOUGHT WE WOULD GET BETTER PARTICIPATION IN THIS ROOM.
AND AT ONE OTHER POINT THAT I MADE TO THE GROUP WAS JUST THE POSSIBILITY OF EVEN TAKING THIS TABLE THAT I'M SEEING, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT USUALLY PEOPLE THAT ARE THERE TO PRESENT SIT AT AND KIND OF BROADENING IT OUT TO WHERE YOU HAVE MORE OF A, A FULL YOU OR SEMICIRCLE JUST TO KIND OF CREATE A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A, UH, AN OPEN ENVIRONMENT FOR FOLKS TO, YOU KNOW, KIND OF FEEL LIKE THEY'RE ALL A PART OF THE CIRCLE AND MAYBE PUT COMMISSIONERS, YOU KNOW, SCATTERED ACROSS PARTICIPANTS JUST TO GIVE IT A LITTLE BIT MORE OF THAT LIVING ROOM TYPE FEEL AS OPPOSED TO THE, THE MORE FORMAL COMMISSIONER ORGA.
SO I DON'T WANNA BE A STICKLER, BUT MY PREFERENCE WOULD BE COUNCIL CHAMBERS FOR PUBLIC PARTICIPATION FOR THOSE THAT MAY BE IN DOWNTOWN AND WANNA WALK OVER AND ACTUALLY PARTICIPATE DIRECTLY WITH THEIR GOVERNMENT.
UM, AND WHEN THERE'S A HOT BUTTON ISSUE, WE DO SEE CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS FILL.
NOW, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS HOT BUTTON OR NOT, BUT WITH THE ARTICLE THAT WE JUST HAD, UM, IN THE BULLDOG, UM, WITH PUBLIC DISCUSSIONS WITH FACEBOOK AND THERE'S MORE EYES ON WHAT WE'RE DOING.
AND SO THAT WOULD BE MY PREFERENCE.
I'LL GO WITH WHATEVER THE, THE COMMISSION DECIDES, BUT BASED ON HOW GOOD THE INVITATION AND PRESSES, UH, GETTING OUT TO THE PUBLIC, WE MAY SEE MORE INTEREST THAN THESE SEATS HERE CAN FILL.
THAT'D BE MY PREFERENCE IF WE GET MORE PUBLIC PARTICIPATION.
WE WILL, I'LL TAKE THAT BACK TO THE WORKING GROUP AND WE'LL KIND OF SEE HOW THAT PUBLIC OUTREACH GOES.
I MEAN, THE ALTERNATIVE IS IF WE ONLY HAVE TWO PEOPLE THAT SHOW UP, IT MIGHT FEEL A LITTLE, UM, AWKWARD, AWKWARD TO BE IN CHAMBER, SO I UNDERSTAND, UNDERSTAND.
AND UM, ALSO, I MEAN, SO LONG AS WE DO NOTE THE ROOM ON THE AGENDA, UM, WE
[01:10:01]
CAN JUST SAY CITY HALL AND WE CAN JUST HAVE A, A NOTE JUST DEPENDING ON THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE OR, UM, YEAH.BUT SO LONG AS THE MAIN LOCATION IS CITY AUSTIN CITY HALL, IT CAN BE IN ANY OF THE ROOMS. OKAY.
I WOULD JUST HAVE TO POST A NOTICE ON WHICH ONE AND LET SECURITY KNOW WHERE TO DIRECT.
SO WE CAN BE A LITTLE BIT FLEXIBLE.
IT SOUNDS LIKE, BASED ON THE RESPONSE THAT WE'RE GETTING, ONE MORE QUESTION.
COULD IT EVER BE OUT HERE IN THE FOYER, IN THE ATRIUM AREA? IT MORE CIRCULAR AND MORE OF A COMMUNITY DISCUSSION? UM, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE I OR I DON'T THINK IT'S IDEAL IF YOU WANTED TO DO THAT.
I KNOW THAT IN COUNCIL CHAMBERS THEY'VE DONE, UM, THE SETUP THAT DR.
SCHOOLER MENTIONED, UM, LIKE A HORSESHOE KIND OF, UM, SETUP.
I MEAN, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN LOOK INTO.
I KNOW HERE IN BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS IT'S SET, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO MOVE ANYTHING AROUND IN THIS ROOM.
JUST MENTION ALSO, OH, I WOULD JUST MENTION IN THE ATRIUM, THE SOUND IS AWFUL.
IT REVERBERATES EVERYWHERE, SO IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT TO HEAR EACH OTHER TALK.
YEAH, AND I WASN'T JUST SO INSISTENT ON THAT SPACE.
I WAS JUST TRYING TO THINK OF SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE A HAPPY MEDIUM BETWEEN THIS SMALL ROOM AND SUCH A FORMAL SPACE.
AND WE WILL TAKE THIS BACK TO THE WORKING GROUP.
UM, AND I GUESS THE NEXT TIME WE WILL SEE YOU ALL IS FEBRUARY 8TH AND WE MAY BE REACHING OUT IN THE MEANTIME TO SEE IF ANYONE WANTS TO VOLUNTEER TO ADVOCATE, UH, FOR OR AGAINST, UM, CERTAIN PROPOSALS SO THAT WE CAN HAVE THAT ROBUST DISCUSSION.
UM, AND THEN ON THE ADDITIONAL TOWN HALL MEETINGS, IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE GONNA DO ONE MORE TOWN HALL.
I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY WE CAN REVISE THAT IF WE END UP GETTING OVERWHELMING PUBLIC PARTICIPATION AND COMMENT.
UM, BUT WE WILL SEND OUT A POLL FOLLOWING THIS MEETING AND JUST ASK THAT YOU ALL RESPOND SO THAT WE CAN DETERMINE WHICH DATES, UM, WHICH DATES WE'LL HAVE FOR OUR SECOND TOWN HALL MEETING BASED ON YOUR BACKUP.
BASED ON THIS ITEM NUMBER EIGHT, UM, THAT MYRNA INCLUDED.
AND WE'LL SEND MYRNA, CAN WE SEND LIKE A POLL, AN EMAIL POLL SO THAT FOLKS CAN JUST RESPOND TO THAT EMAIL? OKAY.
THAT IS ALL THAT I HAD FROM THE OUTREACH WORK GROUP, UNLESS ANYONE ELSE HAD ANY ITEMS, UM, THAT THEY WOULD LIKE FOR US TO TAKE BACK.
WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND EXPERTISE.
YOU'VE BEEN AN INVALUABLE RESOURCE FOR US.
[4. Discussion and possible action on the Petition Process Working Groups initial recommendation report on revisions to the petition process. (Commissioners Cowles, Dwyer, and McGiverin)]
FOUR.THIS IS DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON THE PARTICI PETITION PROCESS WORKING GROUP, WHICH IS COMMISSIONER COYER AND MCGON.
UM, I, AND YOU ALL GAVE US QUITE A LOT OF HOMEWORK, UM, TO READ FOR THIS MEETING.
AND SO I DON'T KNOW WHO WANTS TO TAKE THE LEAD FROM Y'ALL'S GROUP.
I MEAN, I CAN JUST JUMP IN AND SAY, FOR THE TRANSPARENCY ITEM, YOU CAN IGNORE THE FIRST VERSION AND JUST LOOK AT VERSION TWO SO YOU DON'T SEE MY TYPOS.
SO THAT SAVES, THAT SAVES YOU ONE WHOLE PACKET RIGHT THERE.
UM, I THINK IT MIGHT BE HELPFUL TO GO THROUGH THAT ONE REALLY QUICKLY BECAUSE THERE'S PRETTY MUCH AGREEMENT ON THAT WITHIN THE WORK GROUP.
AND I, I THINK THAT ONE'S PRETTY MUCH READY TO, TO VOTE IF WE'RE WILLING TO DO THAT TONIGHT AND THEN DISCUSS THE OTHER TWO PROPOSALS AND THE BACKUP FOR ONE OF THOSE PROPOSALS, IF THAT SOUNDS GOOD.
UM, SO WE PRESENTED A LOT OF THESE IDEAS IN THE PAST.
IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE ONE THAT AT THE TOP SAYS ITEM FOUR, TRANSPARENCY, UPDATED VERSION TWO.
UM, ESSENTIALLY RIGHT NOW THERE'S NOT, THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT OF TRANSPARENCY IN THE CURRENT, IN THE CHARTER'S CURRENT, UM, PETITION PROCESS.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO IDENTIFY WHO IS FUNDING A PETITION EFFORT.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO IDENTIFY WHO IS INITIATING A PETITION EFFORT.
UM, THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SUBMITTING THOSE SIGNATURES, THE ACTUAL PEOPLE CARRYING THE SIGNATURES TO THE CLERK'S OFFICE ARE NOT REQUIRED TO BE RESIDENTS OF AUSTIN.
UM, I, I THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE THAT TRANSPARENCY IS BENEFICIAL, UM, YOU KNOW, REGARDLESS OF HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT A LOT OF THESE OTHER PROPOSALS.
UM, AND SO I'LL ZOOM THROUGH SOME OF THE DETAILS REALLY QUICKLY.
APOLOGIES FOR THIS LOOKING A LITTLE BIT COMPLICATED.
I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GOT, UM, CERTAIN DETAILS IN THERE.
UM, IN SHORT, WE WOULD REQUIRE A NOTICE OF INTENT.
AND SO A SIGNATURE THAT IS ON A PETITION CAN ONLY BE CONSIDERED VALID IF ONE, IT'S COMPLETE, UM, PER, UH, TEXAS SELECTION CODE, MEANING IT'S GOT THE SIGNERS, OBVIOUSLY THEIR LIFE SIGNATURE, PRINTED NAME, RESIDENCE ADDRESS, UM, AND DATE OF THE DATE THAT THEY SIGNED, UM,
[01:15:01]
AND THEIR DATE OF BIRTH ORUM, AND THAT'S, THAT'S A PRETTY STANDARD PETITION, UM, MEASURE OF COMPLETENESS FOR A SIGNATURE.
UM, BUT THE SIGNATURE IS VALID, IT'S COMPLETE, AND IT WAS COLLECTED DURING THE EFFECTIVE PERIOD OF A NOTICE OF INTENT, UM, FILED WITH AND ACCEPTED BY THE CITY CLERK.
THE NOTICE OF INTENT WOULD REQUIRE FIVE RESIDENTS, UH, FIVE QUALIFIED VOTERS, SORRY, IN THE CITY OF AUSTIN, UM, TO PRESENT THE SAME INFORMATION TO VERIFY THAT THEY ARE VOTERS.
UM, AS WELL AS A FEW OTHER THINGS THAT WE DESCRIBED IN SECTION TWO, WHICH WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT I THINK BEFORE, SOME OF THOSE DETAILS.
SO WE MIGHT AS WELL MOVE ON AND, AND IF THERE ARE QUESTIONS, WE CAN GO INTO SOME OF THOSE DETAILS.
I DO ACTUALLY HAVE ONE QUESTION.
SO IN TERMS OF THE PERIOD, THE 90 DAY PERIOD MM-HMM.
SO I SEE THAT WE'VE BUILT IN AN EXTENSION, THE CLERK GRANTING AN EXTENSION MM-HMM.
AND I'M CURIOUS 'CAUSE THAT I BELIEVE IS, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, PLEASE CORRECT ME IF THIS IS WRONG 'CAUSE Y'ALL ARE IN THE WEEDS ON THIS MORE THAN I AM, BUT THERE'S ESSENTIALLY 180 DAYS FROM THE DATE THAT THE PETITION IS TURNED IN, KIND OF THAT'S THE LOOK BACK PERIOD FOR SIGNATURE COLLECTION, RIGHT? AND SO I AM WONDERING WHY, WHY THE 90 DAYS AND THEN WHY THE 90 DAY EXTENSION? I MEAN, I THINK THAT IT'S, SO HERE'S THE THINKING AND THEN I'LL, I'LL KICK IT TO CAROLINE BECAUSE I KNOW SHE'S GOT SOME OPINIONS ON THAT AND WOULD LIKE TO SHARE.
AND I THINK IT'S USEFUL INFORMATION AS WELL FOR US TO WRAP OUR HEADS AROUND THAT.
UM, SO THE 90 DAYS ORIGINALLY WE, THE, THE IDEA IS, AND I I WE KIND OF TALKED ABOUT THIS, HOPEFULLY I DIDN'T ACCIDENTALLY EDIT THAT OUT IN, UM, THE SECTION UNDER POLICY REASONS FOR RECOMMENDATIONS.
UM, ESSENTIALLY THIS IS A MECHANISM TO ENSURE THAT THERE'S OPEN LINES OF COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE PETITIONERS AND THE CITY CLERK'S OFFICE, WHICH IS BENEFICIAL TO THE CLERK AND CITY STAFF FOR BEING ABLE TO TRY AND, AND, UM, YOU KNOW, EFFICIENTLY, UM, ASSIGN STAFF TO, TO THE, THE VERIFICATION PROCESS IF THEY'RE AWARE THAT INDEED THE, THE PETITION IS ON TRACK, UM, 90 DAYS IN ITSELF IS PROBABLY NOT ENOUGH TIME FOR MOST ORGANIZATIONS OR MOST, UM, EFFORTS TO COLLECT, YOU KNOW, 20,000 OR OR 5% SIGNATURES.
UM, HOWEVER, THERE ARE CERTAIN ISSUES IN STATE LAW.
WHERE I BELIEVE IN THIS IS WHERE I'M GONNA TAG IN CAROLINE, IF YOU WANT TO EXPLAIN THAT 180 DAY, UM, THE, BECAUSE I BELIEVE THE LANGUAGE THAT I USED IN HERE ABOUT 180 DAYS ACTUALLY AS CAROLINE WAS POINTING OUT IN AN EMAIL, UM, HA IT, IT IMPACTS ALL PETITION TYPES, SO IT'S NOT JUST CITY CHARTER.
SO IF THAT'S THE CASE, AND IF IT MEANS THAT THERE'S NO WAY TO WORK IN SORT OF LIKE AN EXTENSION THAT REQUIRES CONTINUED COMMUNICATION AT LEAST ONCE IN THAT PROCESS, UM, BETWEEN THE PETITIONERS AND THE CITY CLERK, UM, THEN, YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THIS, IN THIS, UH, THIS RECOMMENDATION.
UM, OBVIOUSLY WE'RE NOT SUGGESTING THAT WE PUT SOMETHING IN THE CHARTER THAT IS NOT, YOU KNOW, THAT IS NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH STATE LAW.
SO CAROLINE, COULD YOU EXPLAIN THAT FOR US? YEAH, SO, UH, SO HAVING A, A 90 DAY INITIAL PERIOD WOULD NOT NECESSARILY CONFLICT WITH STATE LAW.
SO THE WAY CHAPTER 2 77 OF THE ELECTION CODE IS WRITTEN IS IT BASICALLY SAYS THAT A PETITION SIGNATURE IS INVALID AFTER IT'S 180 DAYS OLD.
SO YOU COULD CIRCULATE A PETITION, YOU KNOW, FOR A YEAR, BUT ANY SIGNATURES YOU COLLECTED THAT ARE MORE THAN 180 DAYS BEFORE YOU SUBMIT THE PETITION ARE NOT GONNA BE VALID AUTOMATICALLY.
AND SO THE, THE CLERK WOULD JUST ONLY LOOK AT THOSE PETITION SIGNATURES THAT ARE 180 DAYS OR YOUNGER.
UM, ONCE THE PETITION IS SUBMITTED, THERE'S NOTHING THAT STOPS YOU FROM HAVING A SHORTER TIME PERIOD THAN THAT.
IT DOESN'T ACTUALLY CONFLICT, UH, ESPECIALLY SINCE THIS TYPE OF ELECTION.
THIS PETITION IS AUTHORIZED BY OUR CHARTER AND CHARTER AMENDMENTS ARE AUTHORIZED BY THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE AS OF COURSE, AS WELL, AND THE STATE CONSTITUTION.
BUT FOR THE INITIATIVE REFERENDUM RECALL, UM, THOSE ARE ALL, WE CAN PUT MORE LIMITS ON THE TIME PERIODS FOR THOSE.
SO LEGALLY YOU CAN, YOU CAN PUT THIS IN THERE.
UM, I DO LIKE THE IDEA OF AN, OF AN EXTENSION SO THAT YOU, THEY DO HAVE UP TO 180 DAYS JUST BECAUSE I THINK IT, I THINK THAT WOULD CAUSE LESS CONFUSION IS WHY DO I HAVE IT IN 80, 180 DAYS FOR THIS, BUT NOT FOR THIS.
WHEREAS IN THIS CASE, IT'S LIKE, WELL, YOU CAN, YOU CAN, YOU JUST HAVE TO FILE THE EXTENSION SO LEGALLY YOU CAN PUT IN THAT KIND OF PROVISION.
UM, I JUST REALLY WAS JUST CLARIFYING THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, PETITIONS CAN STILL BE TURNED IN WITH OLD SIGNATURES.
IT'S JUST AS THOSE SIGNATURES WON'T NECESSARILY BE VALID.
AND AGAIN, TO POINT OUT THAT THIS REQUIREMENT APPLIES TO ALL TYPES OF PETITIONS OTHER THAN CANDIDATE PETITIONS, CANDIDATE PETITIONS DON'T HAVE THIS KIND OF, UM, LIMITATION ON THEM.
UM, BUT SO REALLY THAT'S THE ONLY LEGAL POINT I I WANTED TO MAKE.
YOU GUYS CAN PROPOSE THAT, AND I LIKE THE IDEA OF HAVING AN EXTRA 90 DAYS SO THAT IT DOESN'T SEEM TO NOT COMPLY WITH, WITH STATE LAW.
[01:20:01]
MY QUESTION IS, IS THERE A REASON WHY WE WOULDN'T JUST MAKE IT, MAKE THE NOTICE OF INTENT EFFECTIVE FOR 180 DAYS RATHER THAN BUILDING IN AN EXTENSION? OR WHAT IS THE REASON FOR THE EXTENSION? SO IT, IT REALLY, THE IDEA BEHIND THAT WAS, WAS ABOUT COMMUNICATION AND JUST MAKING SURE THAT, THAT, LIKE THE CLERK'S OFFICE UNDERSTANDS THAT IN FACT, THIS, THIS NOTICE OF INTENT THAT WAS FILED, THEY SAID THEY WERE GONNA COLLECT THESE SIGNATURES THAT IS UNDERWAY BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, WITHOUT A NOTICE OF INTENT, WE DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE ARE SITTING OUT THERE RIGHT NOW THINKING I'M GONNA START COLLECTING SIGNATURES.AND THEY'RE GONNA MAYBE COLLECT ONE OR TWO SIGNATURES.
I DON'T KNOW HOW HOW THEY MIGHT GO ABOUT THAT, BUT, UM, BUT JUST IN CASE WE GET SOME NOTICES OF INTENT THAT THAT DON'T RESULT IN A PETITION BEING SUBMITTED, THAT'S HELPFUL FOR THE CLERK TO KNOW, I WOULD THINK.
UM, I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR YOUR OPINION ON THAT MYRNA AS WELL.
UM, HOWEVER, AGAIN, I DON'T THINK THIS, IT, IT SEEMS LIKE THIS MIGHT BE A CONFUSING POINT FOR PEOPLE AND MAYBE IT, MAYBE THE COMMUNICATION LINES ARGUMENT HERE ISN'T THAT IMPORTANT AND MAYBE THOSE, THOSE LINES MAYBE THAT COMMUNICATION WILL HAPPEN REGARDLESS.
AND SO WE DON'T NEED THIS AS A MECHANISM TO ENCOURAGE IT.
UM, AND IF THAT'S HOW THE COMMISSION FEELS, YOU KNOW, I WOULDN'T, I WOULDN'T OPPOSE STRIKING THAT FROM THAT IF THIS IS CAUSING TOO MUCH HESITATION.
IT WAS A, UM, I MEAN I'M DEFINITELY IN FAVOR OF THE NOTICE OF INTENT.
I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE MECHANISM OF THE EXTENSION.
LIKE IS THERE ANY, IS IT AN, IS IT JUST AN AUTOMATIC EXTENSION, YOU JUST HAVE TO FILE THE PAPERWORK FOR IT? I MEAN, OR IS THERE LIKE, IT IS THE CLERK'S OFFICE GONNA HAVE TO MAKE A DETERMINATION? I MEAN, THE CLERK'S OFFICE WOULD PRESUMABLY HAVE TO AT LEAST INDICATE THAT THAT WAS RECEIVED, RIGHT? THERE WOULDN'T BE A SECOND REVIEW OF THE NOTICE OF INTENT.
UM, IT COULD ALSO THOUGH PROVIDE AN OPPORTUNITY TO UPDATE ANY INFORMATION ON THE NOTICE OF INTENT SUCH AS CONTACT INFORMATION CAMPAIGN FILER ID, IF THAT'S, IF YOU ARE NOW ABLE TO PROVIDE A CAMPAIGN FILER ID.
UM, AND SO FOR THAT REASON, I THINK IT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL.
BUT I ALSO DON'T WANT THE, THE PROCESS OF REQUESTING THAT EXTENSION TO BE TOO ONEROUS.
AND SO, UM, AT LEAST IN TERMS OF SECRETARY AND OF STATE WRITTEN NOTICE FOR FEBRUARY IS ELECTION RELATED THINGS.
EMAIL IS USUALLY SUFFICIENT IF IT'S, IF IT'S A WRITTEN NOTICE THAT IS REQUIRED TO BE, UM, YOU KNOW, A SWORN STATEMENT OR ANYTHING.
UM, AND SO LIKE THE SIMPLEST WAY THAT I WAS THINKING THAT WE COULD INSTITUTE THAT MECHANISM WITHOUT IT BEING A BURDEN ON, ON THE PETITIONERS IS REALLY JUST HAVE IT, IF THERE'S AN EMAIL THAT THEY COULD SEND IT TO SAYING, I WOULD LIKE, HERE'S THE NOTICE INTENT NUMBER, I WOULD LIKE TO EXTEND IT.
AND THE CLERK COULD REPLY, RECEIVED AND THEN THAT WOULD BE UPDATED.
UM, THAT, THAT WAS OUR THINKING ON IT.
YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHY WE HAVE A DISCUSSION AS A GROUP.
'CAUSE I WANNA HEAR MORE OPINIONS.
COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, I DON'T REALLY THINK THE 90 DAYS AND THEN A RENEWALS KIND OF NECESSARY.
I SORT OF THINK OF THE NOTICE OF INTENT AS SORT OF LIKE AN APPLICATION FOR A PLACE ON THE BALLOT, BECAUSE THAT'S REALLY WHAT YOU'RE DOING.
YOU'RE SAYING, I WANT THIS TO BE IN THIS ELECTION.
UM, AND THE SIMILAR REQUIREMENTS FOR THAT, LIKE THE PLACE ON THE BALLOT, I BELIEVE REQUIRES AT LEAST A MAILING ADDRESS.
IT REQUIRES A SWORN STATEMENT.
UM, BUT, UM, NOT NECESSARILY FIVE SIGN, FIVE SIGNATURES.
I WOULD SAY MAYBE FIVE NAMES IS REASONABLE FOR THESE, UM, BALLOT QUESTIONS, BUT NOT, UM, NOT EVEN NECESSARILY THE FILER ID FOR CAMPAIGN FINANCE.
I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S REQUIRED ON A, TO REQUEST A PLACE ON THE BALLOT IF YOU HAVE TO.
AND IT'S NOT REQUIRED IN THE, IN THIS PROPOSAL EITHER.
IT'S, OH, I THOUGHT THOUGHT YOU JUST MENTIONED IT.
SO THERE WOULD BE A SPACE, BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE, IF YOU DO FILE CAMPAIGN FINANCE REPORTS, THIS WILL HELP PEOPLE FIND THAT INFORMATION A LITTLE BIT MORE EASILY.
BUT IT'S NOT REQUIRED THAT YOU, THAT YOU DO.
BUT CAMPAIGN, UM, PEOPLE RUNNING FOR PUBLIC OFFICE, UM, NEVER ARE ASKED TO PROVIDE THEIR CAMPAIGN FILE OR IDS THAT GOES TO SOMEBODY ELSE.
SO I JUST THINK IT'S AT LEAST IN THE CITY, UM, I JUST THINK WE SHOULD MAKE THIS KIND OF MATCH THE, UM, REQUEST FOR A PLACE ON THE BALLOT.
BUT WE DEFINITELY WANNA HAVE PROVIDED A COPY OF THE ORDINANCE OR CHARTER AMENDMENT THAT'S BEING PROPOSED AND WHO IS DOING THIS.
BECAUSE I THINK THAT WAS WHAT WAS REALLY OBJECTIONABLE IN A RECENT ELECTION THAT THAT WAS MADE UNCLEAR BY THE CANVASERS.
I WOULD, I WOULD PUSH BACK A LITTLE, BECAUSE I THINK AT THE CITY OF AUSTIN, WE CAN BE MORE TRANSPARENT THAN THE STATE OF TEXAS IS, UM, PARTICULARLY WHEN IT COMES TO ELECTIONS AND WHEN IT COMES TO THE TRANSPARENCY OF MANY PIECES OF INFORMATION AROUND ELECTIONS AND CANDIDATES.
SO I THINK THAT WE CAN DO BETTER THAN THAT AND MAKE THAT INFORMATION AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC.
[01:25:02]
SO 90 DAYS DOESN'T MAKE ANY EXTRA INFORMATION AVAILABLE.WELL, YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT A LOT OF THE OTHER THINGS IN HERE TOO, THOUGH.
YEAH, I AGREE WITH THE CAMPAIGN FI I MEAN, WITH THE TRANSPARENCY AND THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE FILER IF APPLICABLE, THAT NUMBER BEING IN THERE.
I MEAN YEAH, THE CONCERN I HAD, AND I'D LIKE TO GET ERNEST'S THOUGHTS ON THIS TOO, IS I DON'T WANNA PUT THE CITY CLERK'S OFFICE IN THE POSITION OF COMMITTEE.
WELL HAVING TO MAKE A DETERMINATION ABOUT WHETHER TO EXTEND OR NOT.
LIKE, UM, I, I HEAR YOU ON THE OPEN LINES OF COMMUNICATION POINT, I JUST WORRY THAT THE ADMINISTRATIVE BURDEN AND POTENTIAL FOR A REQUEST FOR EXTENSION TO GET LOST IN CYBERSPACE, UM, AND THEN CREATE SOME KIND OF CONFLICT.
UM, I JUST WORRY THAT THAT KIND OF OUTWEIGHS THE, THE BENEFIT ON THAT PARTICULAR PIECE.
UM, MERNA, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE THOUGHTS ON, UM, SURE.
SO THE 90 DAYS, I BELIEVE WOULD MAKE IT MORE CONFUSING.
UM, AND THEN I WOULDN'T WANT TO PUT MYSELF IN THE POSITION OF EITHER APPROVING OR DENYING AN EXTENSION.
UM, SO I WOULD PROBABLY JUST APPROVE THEM ALL
UM, TO BE CLEAR THOUGH, I DON'T THINK THERE WAS THE, THE INTENTION WASN'T THAT IT WOULD EVEN BE APPROVED OR DENIED.
IT'S SIMPLY THE REQUEST IS GRANTED MM-HMM,
THERE WOULDN'T BE LIKE A SECOND REVIEW.
HOWEVER, UM, I DO, I I, I VERY MUCH VALUE YOUR OPINION ON THIS BECAUSE YOU WOULD BE THE ONE, YOU KNOW, EITHER DOING IT YOURSELF OR DIRECTING YOUR STAFF TO DO THAT.
AND SO I THINK THAT THAT'S, THAT'S PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT OPINION IN MY OPINION, IN MY, UH, ESTIMATION ON HOW I WOULD, WHETHER OR NOT I WOULD CONTINUE TO ADVOCATE FOR THE, THE 90 DAYS PLUS AN EXTENSION OR JUST MOVING IT TO 180 DAYS.
BUT, UM, NO, THE 100, I THINK THE COMMUNICATION WE DESPERATELY SEEK THE LETTER OF INTENT WOULD FIX THAT.
UM, IT'S ALWAYS, YOU KNOW, I HEAR ABOUT A PETITION BEING CIRCULATED BECAUSE I'VE BEEN APPROACHED OR STAFF HAVE BEEN APPROACHED, OR WE HEAR IT SOMEWHERE AND IT'S US REACHING OUT OR JUST, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO GET THAT INFORMATION.
OR IF SOMEONE KNOWS, YOU KNOW, WE'LL EVEN GO OUT, I'LL GO OUT TO A STORE, OH, THEY'RE OUTSIDE OF WALMART AND SEE WHAT THE PETITION IS, JUST SO THAT WE CAN GET AN UNDERSTANDING OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE PETITION IS ABOUT.
UM, SO THE LETTER OF INTENT WOULD, THAT IS OUR, THAT WOULD BE AMAZING FOR US.
COMMISSIONER TANO, DID YOU HAVE FURTHER COMMENT? NO.
COMMISSIONER VAN MANEN, UNLESS ANYONE HAS ADDITIONAL POINTS.
I THINK THE PROPOSAL IS EXCELLENT.
SO I WANT TO SAY THAT SO THAT YOU DON'T FEEL LIKE I'M NOT
I JUST, THAT WAS MY ONE KIND OF QUESTION THAT JUMPED OUT AT ME AS I WAS READING IT.
WELL, PARTLY BECAUSE OF THAT, BECAUSE I THINK ALL THE OTHER THINGS ARE LIKE SLAM DUNKS, LIKE THESE ARE NO-BRAINERS, ESPECIALLY IN AUSTIN.
I THINK THAT WE LOVE TRANSPARENCY HERE, AND I THINK THAT THIS WILL ADD TO THAT.
UM, IF THE, IF THE, YOU KNOW, THE 90 DAYS VERSUS 180 DAYS IS GIVING PEOPLE PAUSE, THEN, AT LEAST FOR MYSELF, AND I CAN'T NECESSARILY SPEAK FOR ALL OF THE, THE WORK GROUP MEMBERS.
SO LET ME MAKE SURE THAT WE'VE ADDRESSED EVERYTHING IN HERE.
UM, SO THE CLERK WOULD BE REQUIRED TO REVIEW THE NOTICE OF INTENT JUST TO, JUST TO ENSURE THAT ALL THE REQUIRED INFORMATION IS THERE AND THEN NOTIFY THE, THE PETITIONERS IF THAT NOTICE WAS ACCEPTED OR REJECTED.
UM, WHICH I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S FAIRLY COMMON SENSE AS WELL, THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO, THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE SOME KIND OF NOTIFICATION.
UM, THERE'S ALSO, THERE WOULD BE A REQUIREMENT FOR THE CLERK TO, UM, THERE, THERE ARE A COUPLE STAFFING REQUIREMENTS.
HERE'S, THIS IS SORT OF A MENTAL BLOCK I'VE HAD ON SOME OF THESE PROPOSALS, IS HOW MUCH DETAIL DO WE PUT IN BECAUSE WE'RE NOT NECESSARILY HERE TO TELL STAFF WHAT TO DO.
UM, WE'RE HERE TO MAKE POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS TO, TO, FOR COUNSEL TO PUT ON THE BALLOT.
UM, SO I THINK THAT THERE ARE SOME THINGS IN HERE THAT ARE PROBABLY A LITTLE TOO IN THE WEEDS.
I WAS JUST TRYING TO ENVISION IT, UM, AND, AND TO GET THAT DOWN ON PAPER.
BUT ONE OF THOSE THINGS WOULD BE THE REQUIREMENT FOR THE CLERK TO, UM, PROVIDE SORT OF A FINAL DEADLINE BY WHICH THAT PETITION WOULD HAVE TO BE SUBMITTED TO THE CLERK'S OFFICE IN ORDER FOR THE CLERK TO HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO, TO REVIEW THAT PETITION AND TO VERIFY THOSE SIGNATURES.
AND THEN FOR THAT PETITION TO BE PRESENTED TO COUNSEL AND GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS AS WELL WITH SUFFICIENT TIME REMAINING FOR COUNCIL
[01:30:01]
TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT TO PUT IT ON THE BALLOT FOR THE REQUESTED ELECTION.SO THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE, UM, CONFUSING.
THERE MAY OR MAY NOT NEED TO BE SOME MORE DIRECTION AROUND THE, THE VARIOUS COMPONENTS THAT WOULD GO INTO THAT DECISION MAKING PROCESS ON THE CLERK AND THE CLERK STAFF'S BEHALF.
UM, AND, YOU KNOW, I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF SOMEWHERE IN SOME WAY, BUT PERHAPS NOT HERE IN THIS PROPOSAL.
UM, IDENTIFYING ALL OF THE COMPONENTS THAT WOULD NEED TO BE SORT OF PART OF THAT DECISION MAKING PROCESS.
SO IT IS TRANSPARENT AND SO PETITIONERS ALSO UNDERSTAND WHY, YOU KNOW, WHY YOU'RE, YOU'RE GOING TO BE REQUIRED TO SUBMIT A PETITION MAYBE A MONTH EARLIER THAN YOU MIGHT HAVE PRIOR TO THIS GOING INTO EFFECT.
SO I DID WANNA HIGHLIGHT THAT AS WELL, BECAUSE I THINK THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT MIGHT GIVE SOME PEOPLE PAUSE BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S FOR PETITIONERS THAT MIGHT BE A NOTICE THAT THEY, THAT THEY SEE AND WOULD HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT.
UM, AND THEN SOME BASIC STUFF LIKE, YOU KNOW, THE CLERK WOULD NEED TO SIGN A SHORT IDENTIFYING NUMBER TO EACH NOTICE OF INTENT JUST TO MAKE IT EASY FOR PEOPLE TO LOOK UP THOSE NOTICES OF INTENT, UM, AS WELL AS HOUSE THEM ON THE WEBSITE.
I DON'T THINK ANY OF THAT WOULD BE TOO MUCH OF A BURDEN.
UM, AND THEN SECTION FOUR IS ABOUT STANDARDIZED PETITION FORMS. I HAVE A QUESTION FOR, FOR EVERYONE ON THIS ONE BECAUSE STANDARDIZED PETITION FORMS, UM, THE WORK GROUP I THINK ARE IN AGREEMENT THAT THAT'S A GOOD IDEA BECAUSE THEN THERE IS SPECIFIC INFORMATION THAT WILL BE PROVIDED ON THEIR, INCLUDING THE CONTACT INFORMATION FOR THE PETITIONERS THAT WAS PROVIDED ON THAT NOTICE OF INTENT.
UM, THE URL OF THE, THE PLACE ON THE, THE CITY'S WEBSITE WHERE YOU CAN GO AND FIND A COPY OF THAT NOTICE OF INTENT, UM, AS WELL AS JUST SORT OF THE, THE, YOU KNOW, I GUESS THE BALLOT LANGUAGE, THE PROPOSED BALLOT LANGUAGE FOR IT.
UM, AND A FEW OTHER THINGS THERE.
I I, WE ALSO ADDED CONTACT INFORMATION FOR THE CLERK'S OFFICE BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE A CONCERN, IF YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU SEE WHAT'S ON THE, THE STANDARDIZED PETITION FORM WHEN YOU'RE ASKED TO SIGN IT AND THEN THE CANVASSER IS TELLING YOU SOMETHING DIFFERENT, MAYBE YOU WANT TO ASK IF THAT'S AN ISSUE, YOU NEED TO KNOW WHO TO CALL, RIGHT? AND SO THE CLERK'S OFFICE WOULD BE THE BE THE FIRST CALL THERE, I WOULD THINK.
UM, NOW I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT HAS TO BE A CHARTER AMENDMENT TO SAY THAT THEY GOTTA USE FORMS. RIGHT.
UM, BUT WE INCLUDED IT IN HERE, EVEN THOUGH IT, THE STANDARDIZED PETITION FORMS IN AND OF THEMSELVES ARE NOT, NOT DIRECTLY A PART OF THE NOTICE OF INTENT.
UM, BUT I DID WANNA HAVE A DISCUSSION ON THAT AND FIND OUT IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO DRAFT SOME BALLOT LANGUAGE FOR.
I THINK IF WE WERE TO TRY AND PUT IT INTO THE BALLOT LANGUAGE THAT WAS DRAFTED HERE, UM, WHICH I'LL GET TO IN JUST A SECOND.
'CAUSE I THINK WE'VE GOT SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT TOO.
UM, IT WOULD BE JUST A WILD AND WAY TOO IN THE WEEDS AND VERY DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND BECAUSE IT WOULD GO IN SO MANY DIRECTIONS.
SO I KIND OF WANTED TO, I WAS HOPING WE COULD GET SOME FEEDBACK ON THAT TODAY AS WELL.
YES, COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, I HAVE QUESTIONS FOR THE CLERK ABOUT THE VALIDATION TIME.
UM, YOU CAN'T JUST SAY IF A PETITION'S TURNED IN BY X WILL BE ABLE TO VALIDATE IT BY THE TIME, BECAUSE SIX PETITIONS COULD GET TURNED IN THAT DAY AND THEN YOU'RE NOT GONNA HONOR THAT COMMITMENT.
SO I DON'T KNOW IF LIKE ONE BY ONE, YOU TURN IN YOUR NOTICE OF INTENT, YOU GET CERTAIN PARTS OF THE CLERK'S TIME RESERVED AND A COMMITMENT THAT IT'LL BE DONE, BUT THE NEXT ONE WHO FILES GETS THE, YOU KNOW, HAS TO TURN IT IN EARLIER OR IT WON'T GET DONE.
UM, I WOULDN'T SAY THE 180 DAYS IS FROM THE NOTICE OF INTENT.
THE A HUNDRED NATIVE DAYS IS FROM THE DATE OF A SIGNATURE.
UM, UM, BECAUSE IF YOU'RE TOLD, WELL, THERE'S FOUR PETITIONS THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO DO, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO TURN YOURS IN THIS EXTRA EARLY DATE, THEN THEIR DATES ARE GONNA BE DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, SO I, I WOULD JUST HAVE THE NORMAL THING THAT THE SIGNATURES ARE GOOD FOR 180 DAYS.
SO THAT IF YOU WANNA BE THE EARLY BIRD WHO CATCHES THE WORM, YOU CAN PUT IN YOUR NOTICE OF INTENT EARLY.
BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN NOW YOU ONLY HAVE 180 DAYS.
YOU CAN WAIT A MONTH, START COLLECTING AT A TIME THAT'S MORE APPROPRIATE.
THE 180 DAYS WE START COUNTING THE DAY THE PETITION IS SUBMITTED, TURNED IN.
SO THE LETTER, THE NOTICE OF INTENT, THAT WOULD NOT START THE CLOCK.
UM, WHEN A PETITION IS FILED IN OUR OFFICE, AND WE'VE HAD THAT OCCUR BEFORE, WE HAD THREE PETITIONS AT ONE TIME, UM, OF COURSE WE TAKE THE ONE THAT WAS SUBMITTED FIRST, THEN SECOND, THEN THIRD.
[01:35:01]
TAKES US AT MINIMUM 30 DAYS.UM, ALTHOUGH TO THAT MINIMUM, UM, IT CAN BE MORE
BUT LATELY WE'VE RECEIVED, UM, BECAUSE I MEAN, IT'S ALL, YOU KNOW, HANDS ON DECK, BUT WE STILL HAVE OTHER DUTIES TO PERFORM.
FOR EXAMPLE, UH, FOUR OF OUR STAFF STILL HAVE TO ATTEND COUNCIL MEETINGS, ALL OF THE COUNCIL MEETINGS, YOU KNOW, THE COMMISSION MEETINGS.
WE HAVE STAFF THAT HAVE EITHER HAD, UM, ALREADY APPROVED LEAVE.
YOU KNOW, WE CANNOT HIRE TEMPS.
IT WOULD TAKE LONGER FOR US TO TRAIN THEM.
AND WE DO PULL OTHER, UM, STAFFERS THAT USED TO WORK IN OUR OFFICE AND ARE NOW IN A DIFFERENT DEPARTMENT AND, UM, UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS.
WE DO PULL THEM AND WE TRY, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A VERY GOOD, UH, PROCESS IN PLACE.
AND, UM, ALTHOUGH WE, IT SAYS THAT WE HAVE, UM, BASICALLY WE DON'T HAVE A TIMELINE JUST AS SOON AS REASONABLY POSSIBLE.
UM, IT IS, YOU KNOW, OUR PRIORITY TO GET THAT, YOU KNOW, PETITION PROCESSED AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
UM, BUT AGAIN, UM, EVEN IF WE HAVE A LETTER OF NOTICE OF INTENT, WE MAY HAVE TO HAVE LANGUAGE IF THERE ARE MULTIPLE, LIKE A DISCLAIMER OF SOME SORT THAT SAYS IF WE HAVE MULTIPLE SUBMITTED THE, I DON'T KNOW, THE CIRCULATOR WHO SUBMITS THE PETITION FIRST, YOU KNOW, THEY TAKE, THEY GO FIRST AND THEN SECOND AND THEN THIRD.
IT DOESN'T MEAN THEY HAVE TO WAIT THE 30 DAYS UNTIL WE BEGIN PROCESSING THE OTHERS.
UM, WE'LL, YOU KNOW, IT, IT'LL JUST TAKE LONGER.
AND ARE THERE THINGS THAT, UM, GROUPS WHO SUBMIT PETITIONS CAN DO TO MAKE THAT PROCESS GO FASTER? I MEAN, I KNOW SOME GROUPS WILL LOOK UP EVERY SINGLE VOTER ID.
IT DEPENDS ON THE, UH, CONDITION OF THE PETITION.
UH, THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE WOULD LIKE TO CREATE A PETITION, UH, A SIGNATURE PAGE SO THAT THEY ARE THE SAME ACROSS THE BOARD.
BECAUSE CURRENTLY WE GET PETITIONS THAT MAY HAVE THREE LINE, YOU KNOW, SIGNATURE LINES UP TO 20 AND THEY'RE TINY.
AND SO WE JUST WANNA BE CONSISTENT.
UM, SOME PETITIONS THAT HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED, YES, THEY HAVE ENOUGH STAFF TO REVIEW AND, YOU KNOW, VALIDATE THE SIGNATURES AND EITHER PROVIDE A DATE OF BIRTH OR THE, THE, THE, UH, VOTER IDENTIFICATION NUMBER, WHICH MAKES IT A LOT EASIER FOR US, UH, TO LOOK UP.
UM, BUT THEN WE HAVE OTHERS THAT JUST DON'T DO ANYTHING
AND SO THAT TAKES US LONGER BECAUSE ALL WE GET ARE THEIR NAME AND THEIR ADDRESS.
AND, UM, WE HAVE FOUR DIFFERENT COUNTIES THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK ACROSS.
SO IT'S JUST NOT TRAVIS COUNTY.
WE PULL UP ALL OF THEIR ELECTION SITES AND, UM, WE DO OUR DUE DILIGENCE TO TRY TO, YOU KNOW, GIVE THEM THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT THAT THEY ARE A VALID, YOU KNOW, SIGNER SIGNATURE.
AND IS THERE ANY SOFTWARE TO HELP WITH THIS TASK? UM, WE HAVE AN INTERNAL APPLICATION THAT WE CREATED.
IT'S A PETITION VERIFICATION SYSTEM THAT HAS MADE IT, YOU KNOW, VERY, UM, I MEAN FIRST PASS MM-HMM
IT STREAM STREAMLINES THE PROCESS.
COMMISSIONER ALONA, UH, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS WORK.
THIS IS VERY, WHILE IT IS NO BRAINER, IT REQUIRES A BRAIN TO PUT TOGETHER
UH, SO IT, I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.
I FEEL READY TO SUPPORT IT AND TAKE ACTION, ESPECIALLY IF WE MAKE AN AMENDMENT TO INCORPORATE THE FEEDBACK FROM THE CITY CLERK ABOUT, UH, WANTING TO, UH, AVOID THE, UH, QUAGMIRE OF THE EXTENSION, WHICH I THINK WE ALL UNDERSTAND IN HERE.
UH, I, I, UH, I THINK THE, UH, INTENT WAS REASONABLE, BUT, UM, AND PERSUADED BY WHAT WE HEARD, I WANTED TO, UH, OFFER AN IDEA AROUND YOUR QUESTION OF WHAT DO WE DO WITH STANDARDS.
UH, SINCE WE HAD SOMEONE FROM THE NATIONAL CIVIC LEAGUE, UH, ONE OF THE, UH, EARLIER TODAY, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THEY ALWAYS SAY IS IN THE CHARTER, SAY THERE WILL BE A STANDARDIZED PETITION FORM ADOPTED BY COUNSEL, AND THEN COUNSEL PASSES THE ORDINANCE.
THAT MIGHT BE A LITTLE TOO LOOSEY GOOSEY GI GIVEN SOME OF THE THINGS WE'RE TRYING TO FIX.
UH, YOU MIGHT WANT TO BE A BIT MORE PRESCRIPTIVE.
I'M WILLING TO SUPPORT YOU EITHER WAY.
[01:40:01]
IT AS A, A TECHNICAL, UH, A SOLUTION.I DO WANT TO ASK ONE QUESTION THAT I'VE BEEN WAITING TO ASK UNTIL THE CAKE WAS BAKED.
UH, AND IT HAS TO DO WITH SOMETHING THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO BY STAKEHOLDERS.
THERE IS CONCERN THAT, UH, NEFARIOUS ENTITIES WHO SOMETIMES USE THE PETITIONING PROCESS WILL SAY, UH, WILL HAVE AN ORDINANCE LANGUAGE THAT DOES NOT REFLECT, REFLECT THE PROPOSED BALLOT LANGUAGE.
SO, FOR EXAMPLE, THE, TO SIMPLIFY THE PROPOSED OR ORDINANCES MAKE COFFEE THE OFFICIAL DRINK OF AUSTIN, AND THE BALLOT LANGUAGE SAYS, MAKE ORANGE JUICE THE OFFICIAL DRINK OF AUSTIN.
UM, AND SO ONE OF THE THINGS I WAS JUST CURIOUS, AND I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE KNOW HOW THIS WILL BE RESOLVED AT THIS MOMENT WHERE WE'RE SO CLOSE TO RECOMMENDING THIS, WHO HAS A DISCRETION TO SAY THERE IS TOO MUCH OF A MISMATCH BETWEEN BALLOT LANGUAGE AND ORDINANCE LANGUAGE.
YOUR NOTICE OF INTENT IS REJECTED.
UM, NO, I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT THAT TOO.
AND YOU KNOW, UNLESS, UNLESS THE NOTICES OF INTENT ARE THEN REVIEWED PERHAPS BY THE LAW DEPARTMENT AS WELL FOR, FOR, YOU KNOW, COMPLIANCE WITH THAT TO ENSURE THAT THE, THE LANGUAGE IS, I GUESS, HONEST AND TRUTHFUL, I DON'T KNOW.
I AM VERY HESITANT TO, I'M VERY HESITANT TO SORT OF OPINE ON WHETHER OR NOT THE CITY SHOULD BE WEIGHING IN ON WHAT THERE'S, ON WHETHER, YOU KNOW, A, A SUGGESTED ORDINANCE LANGUAGE, UM, AND BALLOT LANGUAGE ON KNOW OF INTENT IS ACTUALLY WHAT WILL END UP ON THE BALLOT.
BECAUSE THE IDEA IS THAT THE INTENDED BALLOT LANGUAGE, AND PERHAPS THERE SHOULD BE SOME KIND OF NOTICE ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THAT WILL ACTUALLY END UP, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT THE CITY OF BOSTON NEEDS TO BE CREATING THE MESSAGE FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ARE PETITIONING.
UM, AND I AM GONNA ASK YOU A QUESTION.
ACTUALLY, I'M, LET'S JUST PLEASE WEIGH IN.
THAT'S, UM, SO THIS IS CAROLINE WITH THE LAW DEPARTMENT.
I JUST WANTED TO, TO CLARIFY A COUPLE THINGS.
UM, SO FOR INITIATIVE ELECTIONS, UM, THEY ARE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE WHAT'S CALLED A CAPTION.
AND WE ARE REQUIRED TO USE THAT ON THE BALLOT UNLESS WE FEEL LIKE IT OMITS CERTAIN NECESSARY INFORMATION, ET CETERA, ET CETERA, WHICH OFTEN WE DO.
AND WE WILL THEN KIND OF PRESENT AN ALTERNATIVE BALLOT LANGUAGE, WHICH THEY IN, AT LEAST IN THE PAST USUALLY SUE US OVER.
AND THEN WE ALL GO TO COURT AND THE COURT TELLS US, YES, YOU CAN HAVE THIS, OR NO, YOU CAN'T HAVE THAT, OR WHATEVER.
SO WHATEVER BALLOT LANGUAGE THEY PROVIDE US, WE, WE PRETTY MUCH DO HAVE TO USE UNLESS WE FEEL LIKE IT DOESN'T MEET WITH OTHER LEGAL REQUIREMENTS, UM, WHERE WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO PROVIDE MISLEADING INFORMATION OR OMIT IMPORTANT STATEMENTS, ET CETERA.
MAYBE THIS QUESTION IS MOOT BECAUSE WE DON'T CURRENTLY HAVE A PROCESS WHERE THEY SUBMIT THAT AHEAD OF TIME BEFORE COLLECTING THOSE SIGNATURES.
BUT AT WHAT STAGE IN THAT PROCESS IS THAT DECISION MADE? WELL, IT HAS TO BE ON THE PETITION ITSELF.
SO IF THEY ALREADY HAVE TO HAVE, FOR THE NOTICE OF INTENT, IF THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO HAVE PROPOSED BALLOT LANGUAGE IN THEIR PROPOSED ORDINANCE FOR AN INITIATIVE ELECTION, I MEAN, IT'S BASICALLY THE SAME.
IT'S THE SAME AS WHAT'S ALREADY REQUIRED FOR THE PETITION.
UM, SO FOR RECALL ELECTIONS, THE CHARTER ALREADY PROVIDES, YOU KNOW, SHALL SO AND SO BE RECALLED AND, UM, CHARTER AMENDMENT ELECTIONS, IT'S KIND OF FOR OR AGAINST, SHALL THE CHARTER BE AMENDED TO DO X? UH, SO A LOT OF THAT LANGUAGE IS ALREADY PRETTY STANDARD.
IT'S, IT'S, THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS OF INCLUDING HOW MUCH DETAIL DO YOU INCLUDE, AND THIS IS THE CHANGE WE WANNA MAKE, AND HOW MUCH OF AN EXPLANATION KIND OF DO YOU PUT ON THE BALLOT AS OPPOSED TO, UM, ELSEWHERE ON THE ELECTION ORDINANCE OR ONLINE OR WHAT HAVE YOU.
UM, BUT ONE THING I WANTED TO MENTION IS LIKE, THERE, JUST IN CASE, I THINK SOMETHING MYRNA SAID, AND IT SHOWED THERE WAS A, A MISUNDERSTANDING ABOUT THE NOTICE OF INTENT VIS-A-VIS THE 180 DAYS.
SO IF YOU ALL HAVE A NOTICE OF INTENT, BASICALLY, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THAT NOTICE OF INTENT BASICALLY EXPIRES AFTER 180 DAYS.
IS THAT RIGHT? THAT'S HOW THIS WAS WRITTEN.
AND I FEEL LIKE THAT'S IT, IT WOULD BE MORE IN COMPLIANCE WITH, WITH, UM, ELECTION CODE ON THE CHARTER AMENDMENTS, IF IT WAS KIND OF THE REVERSE OF THAT.
AT THE SAME TIME, LIKE THE WHOLE POINT IS FOR THE NOTICE OF INTENT TO BE IN EFFECT DURING A CERTAIN PERIOD, RIGHT? YEAH.
UM, BECAUSE THAT, THAT IS PART OF WHAT MAKES A VALID SIGNATURE UNDER THIS PROPOSAL.
SO I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER FOR THAT, BUT, BUT I THINK THAT IT'S SOMETHING FOR US TO LOOK AT AND KIND OF GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD ON A LITTLE BIT.
SO YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S SOMETHING I JUST WANNA BE SURE IT'S CLEAR.
'CAUSE THE ELECTION, UNDER CURRENT ELECTION CODE, YOU CAN STILL SUBMIT A PETITION IF YOUR SIGNATURES, IF SOME OF YOUR SIGNATURES ARE TOO OLD, LIKE I SAID, THEY JUST WON'T BE VALID.
BUT IN THIS, IT LOOKS LIKE, AND I MAY IF I, MAYBE I MISUNDERSTOOD, SO CORRECT ME, BUT,
[01:45:01]
UM, IT LOOKS LIKE IF YOUR NOTICE OF INTENT IS MORE THAN 180 DAYS OLD, YOU'RE DONE.YOU CAN'T EVEN SUBMIT YOUR PETITION AFTER THAT.
WHICH I THINK WE CAN, WE COULD PUT THAT IN EFFECT FOR INITIATIVE REFERENDUM AND RECALL.
I'M LESS SURE ABOUT CHARTER AMENDMENT ELECTIONS BECAUSE CHARTER AMENDMENT ELECTIONS, THE AUTHORITY FROM THEM COMES FROM THE STATE CONSULTATION AND FROM STATE LAW AS OPPOSED TO ONLY FROM OUR CHARTER.
SO I'D BE MORE HESITANT TO SAY WE COULD LIMIT, UM, THEIR ENTIRE TIME TO 180 DAYS.
SO IT'S JUST, IT'S JUST, IT'S JUST TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT THE, THE NUANCES OF THAT REQUIREMENT.
WELL, AND I GUESS ONE QUESTION I HAD ON THAT POINT, AND I THINK THIS GOES BACK, COMMISSIONER VAN MAN, TO YOUR POINT ABOUT WHAT GOES, WHAT DO WE RECOMMEND AND WHAT ACTUALLY GOES IN THE CHARTER? BECAUSE TO ME, WE'RE REPRESENT, WE ARE RECOMMENDING A NOTICE OF INTENT.
WE ARE POTENTIALLY RECOMMENDING A STANDARDIZED PETITION FORM.
BUT AS FAR AS THE CONTENT OF THOSE FORMS AND KIND OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE DETAILS, HOW LONG ARE THEY EFFECTIVE? TO ME, THAT IS BEYOND THE SCOPE OF, I MEAN, I THINK IT'S HELPFUL FOR US TO THINK THROUGH IT AND TALK THROUGH IT AND HAVE THESE DISCUSSIONS, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT NEEDS TO BE PART OF OUR RECOMMENDATION.
AND I'M CURIOUS TO GET EVERYBODY ELSE'S THOUGHTS ON THAT, BECAUSE THAT WAS JUST KIND OF MY INITIAL REACTION AS WE WERE HAVING THAT DISCUSSION.
I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW, MYRNA, IF YOU ALL HAVE TEMPLATE, YOU KNOW, TEMPLATE NOTICE OF INTENTS OR TEMPLATE PETITION FORMS, UM, UM, WE DON'T HAVE TEMPLATES, BUT I'M HAPPY TO PUT ONE TOGETHER THAT YOU ALL CAN WORK OFF OF.
SO, 'CAUSE I AGREE WITH YOU, LIKE I, THIS IS, I'VE HAD LIKE MENTAL BLOCKS ABOUT LIKE A LOT OF THESE PROPOSALS BECAUSE IT'S A QUESTION OF WE WANNA REQUIRE CERTAIN THINGS LIKE THE, THE, THESE REQUIREMENTS ARE THE REASON FOR THE NOTICE OF INTENT, RIGHT? YEAH.
AND SO WE NEED TO FIND A WAY TO COMMUNICATE THAT TO COUNSEL, BUT ALSO WHILE ACCEPTING THAT IT'S RIDICULOUS TO HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, EVEN WRITE BALLOT LANGUAGE ABOUT A STANDARDIZED PETITION FORM, IN MY OPINION, BECAUSE THAT DOESN'T NEED TO BE, THAT DOESN'T NEED TO BE SOMETHING THAT, THAT PEOPLE VOTE ON UNLESS IT'S SOMETHING AS SIMPLE KIND OF LIKE YOU WERE SAYING, UM, JUST ON STANDARD FORMS, RIGHT? LIKE, BUT THE WHOLE POINT IS THAT CERTAIN THINGS HAVE TO BE INCLUDED ON THAT FORM.
SO I, ALL THAT IS TO SAY I'M CONFUSED ABOUT THAT AND I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR YEAH.
I MEAN, IF WE HAVE, IF WE GET TEMPLATE FORMS FROM MYRNA TO REVIEW, AND THEN MAYBE WE CAN INCLUDE THOSE, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY OUR RECOMMENDATION IS GONNA BE LIMITED TO THE SPECIFIC LANGUAGE OF THE CHARTER THAT WE THINK NEEDS TO BE REVISED.
BUT WE CAN ALSO, YOU KNOW, INCLUDE KIND OF DRAFT TEMPLATES, UM, FROM THE CLERK'S OFFICE SO THAT CITY COUNCIL CAN KIND OF ENVISION WHAT IT IS THAT WE'RE PROPOSING.
THAT'S ONE IDEA OF HOW TO ADDRESS THAT.
'CAUSE I DO THINK IT'S A QUANDARY OF HOW IN DEPTH WE GO.
I MEAN, PRESUMABLY LIKE BASED ON THE PREVIOUS, UM, CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSIONS REPORTS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF INFORMATION THAT WE CAN PUT IN THE REPORT ITSELF TO, TO, YOU KNOW, CLARIFY OUR INTENT WITH THE RECOMMENDATIONS.
AND I THINK THAT THAT'S FANTASTIC AND I, I AM IN SUPPORT OF THAT.
UM, I THINK THAT IF WE CAN, WHATEVER WE CAN DO TO, TO SORT OF CLEAN UP A LOT OF THIS LANGUAGE INTO WHAT ACTUALLY HAS TO GO ON THE BALLOT, WHAT REALLY NEEDS TO BE IN THE CHARTER BECAUSE NOT ALL OF THESE THINGS NEED TO BE IN THE CHARTER AS WELL.
UM, I, I'M IN FAVOR OF THAT AND AS LONG AS WE HAVE THAT SPACE IN THAT FINAL REPORT TO CLARIFY WHAT OUR INTENT WAS, WHAT, YOU KNOW, CERTAIN REQUIRED PIECES OF INFORMATION WE BELIEVE AS A COMMISSION WOULD BE CRITICAL FOR ACHIEVING THE GOAL THAT WE'RE PRESENTING IN OUR RECOMMENDATIONS.
I THINK THE, UM, THE BIGGEST THING, THE BIGGEST PIECE OF THIS IS THE, UM, NOTICE OF INTENT AND THAT MAYBE WE SHOULD SIMPLIFY THIS RECOMMENDATION TO ONLY COVER THE NOTICE OF INTENT.
I WOULDN'T HAVE THE NOTICE OF INTENT EXPIRING AFTER 180 DAYS SINCE THE SIGNATURES THEMSELVES EXPIRE AFTER 180 DAYS.
WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE TWO DIFFERENT EXPIRATION DATES, UM, WHICH TO ME JUST MAKES IT MORE COMPLICATED.
AND THEN, UH, SORT OF SEPARATE OUT THE THINGS ABOUT THE, UM, THE FORMS. WE SHOULD ALSO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ON THE FORMS. I DON'T THINK THAT'S, LIKE YOU SAID, NECESSARILY A CHARTER AMENDMENT.
THE CHARTER AMENDMENT IS ABOUT THE NOTICE OF INTENT.
AND SO I THINK WE JUST NEED TO SEPARATE THOSE TWO ISSUES THAT ARE BOTH COVERED IN THIS DOCUMENT.
THOUGHTS ON THAT APPROACH? YES.
COMMISSIONER MCG TMORE, I DO THINK THAT THERE IS VALUE TO PROVIDING SOME DIRECTION ABOUT THE CONTENT OF WHAT SHOULD BE IN THE FORMS THAT ARE BEING THAT, THAT
[01:50:01]
WE'RE ASKING PEOPLE TO SIGN.'CAUSE I MEAN, THAT IS THE, THE KEY TO LINKING THOSE, THAT EVENT, YOU KNOW, BEING APPROACHED BY A CANVASSER BACK TO THE TREASURE TROVE OF INFORMATION THAT'S AVAILABLE ON THE CITY WEBSITE.
UM, THAT BEING SAID, I, I THINK THAT THERE IS A LOT OF VALUE TO, UH, COMMISSIONER T MORENO'S RECOMMENDATION, OR AS I UNDERSTOOD IT, UM, WITH REGARD TO PERHAPS INCLUDING WITHIN THE CHARTER, MORE GENERALIZED DIRECTION THAT THE COUNCIL SHALL APPROVE STANDARDIZED FORMS THAT HIT ON PARTICULAR ELEMENTS.
AND THAT WOULD ADD A LITTLE BIT MORE LONGEVITY TO THAT PART OF THE CHARTER AS WELL.
SO IF QR CODES ARE AN ANTIQUATED TECHNOLOGY IN 10 YEARS, UH, THEY WON'T HAVE TO BRING TOGETHER A CHARTER COMMISSION JUST TO, YOU KNOW, ELIMINATE THAT PORTION.
I MEAN, I THINK PEOPLE TEND TO, IT SEEMS LIKE PEOPLE TEND TO LEAN INTO THAT SORT OF PRECEDENT.
ANY OTHER THOUGHTS, COMMENTS? DOES THE WORKING GROUP WANT TO REVISIT THEIR RECOMMENDATION OR DO THEY WANT US TO APPROVE TODAY? WELL, I THINK, I'M SORRY, GO AHEAD.
I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, I THINK THERE ARE SOME, SOME, SOME EDITS, SOME AMENDMENTS THAT, THAT NEED TO BE MADE TO MAKE IT, TO BRING IT TO A POINT WHERE EVERYBODY CAN BE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT LANGUAGE GOING INTO THE FINAL RECOMMENDATION.
UM, AND I GUESS THE QUESTION THEN IS HOW MUCH OF THAT NEEDS TO BE FROM THE WORKING GROUP IN WRITING? MEAN WE'RE IN A PUBLIC MEETING, SO IT'S ALSO NOW PUBLIC RECORD, WHAT WE'VE SAID WE WOULD LIKE TO CHANGE.
BUT, UM, IN THE FINAL RECOMMENDATION, OBVIOUSLY IT'S NOT GONNA BE, IT, IT MAY NOT BE WORD FOR WORD WHAT'S IN THIS DRAFT, RIGHT? THAT'S WHY IT'S A DRAFT.
SO IN OUR, SO HOW WOULD YOU PREFER FOR US TO GO FORWARD? YEAH.
IN OUR FINAL REPORT WE CAN CERTAINLY CRAFT THAT RECOMMENDATION TO, YOU KNOW, HIGHLIGHT KIND OF THE ISSUES THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED AND THE ITEMS THAT WE THINK ARE IMPORTANT.
AND SO WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST THAT WE DO AT THE NEXT MEETING IS TO COME BACK WITH KIND OF A RECOMMENDATION FORMATTED AS, UM, THE MECHANICS WORKING GROUP HAS FORMATTED THEIRS, KIND OF FOLLOWING THE FORMAT FROM THE 2018, UM, COMMISSION WHERE WE CAN PUT IN THE BACKGROUND INFORMATION, THE SUBSTANCE OF THE PROPOSAL AND THE POLICY REASONS BEHIND IT.
AND THERE WE CAN HIGHLIGHT ALL THE ITEMS, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS WE CAN INCLUDE THE TEMPLATE FORMS AND THEN HIGHLIGHT ALL THE ITEMS THAT WE THINK FROM A TRANSPARENCY STANDPOINT NEED TO BE INCLUDED.
SO, SO REFORMAT IT, RE SORT OF REWORK IT A LITTLE BIT, SIMPLIFY OBVIOUSLY IN THAT PROCESS, EDIT THE THINGS THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED HERE TODAY.
UM, AND THEN PRESENT THAT NEXT TIME.
I THINK THAT'S THE BEST APPROACH.
AND THEN THAT IS LITERALLY WHAT'S GONNA GET COPIED AND PASTED INTO THE REPORT.
UM, AND SO THAT WILL MAKE IT VERY EASY FOR US TO BE IN CONSENSUS OR AT LEAST IN MAJORITY ON, UM, ON THE ITEMS THAT GO IN THE FINAL REPORT.
CAN I ASK ONE MORE QUESTION OF CAROLINE, UM, ABOUT THE BALLOT LANGUAGE THAT'S PRESENTED IN HERE.
FIRST OF ALL, UM, COULD SOMEONE ELSE WRITE THIS BALLOT LANGUAGE? BECAUSE IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO TRY AND FIGURE OUT WHAT, LIKE THIS WAS A SHOT IN THE DARK OF LIKE, WHAT COULD WE PUT IN IT THAT MAKES SENSE, BUT ALSO ISN'T LIKE A FIVE PAGE LONG LIKE BALLOT QUESTION.
UM, COULD YOU PROVIDE US SOME GUIDANCE ON THAT? YEAH, AND, AND YOU'RE RIGHT, THAT IS EXACTLY THE DILEMMA WE HAVE WHEN WE WRITE BALLOT LANGUAGE ALWAYS, UM, FOR THIS KIND OF THING IS HOW MUCH TO INCLUDE AND HOW MUCH NOT TO INCLUDE.
SO THE, I MEAN, SO THE BALLOT LANGUAGE OBVIOUSLY HAS TO ACCURATELY REFLECT EXACTLY HOW YOU WANT TO CHANGE THE CHARTER, YOU KNOW, SO IT CAN'T GO INTO, LIKE YOU WERE JUST DISCUSSING, WELL, WHAT SHOULD GO INTO THE CHARTER AND WHAT COULD MAYBE BE ADDED THROUGH ORDINANCE OR WHAT HAVE YOU LATER.
SO CERTAINLY THE BALLOT LANGUAGE SHOULD ONLY INCLUDE CHANGES TO THE CHARTER.
AND, YOU KNOW, SO THAT THE WAY BALLOT LANGUAGE FOR CHARTER AMENDMENT, IT WORKS.
IT'S LIKE, SHALL THE CHARTER BE AMENDED TO PROVIDE THAT X, Y, AND Z AND, UM, THEY VOTE FOR OR AGAINST OR YES OR NO.
AND THE OTHER THING TO NOTE ABOUT BALLOT LANGUAGE IS IT HAS TO BE IN THE FORM OF A SINGLE STATEMENT OR SINGLE SENTENCE.
SO YOU GET YOUR, UH, OLD HOMEWORK OUT FROM ENGLISH CLASS AND YOU HAVE TO FIGURE OUT EXACTLY WHEN SEMICOLONS AND COLONS ARE TO BE USED BECAUSE IT IS BASICALLY ONE GIANT RUN ON SENTENCE.
UH, SO YOU HAVE TO BE REALLY CAREFUL ABOUT HOW YOU'RE WRITING THAT SO THAT IT ALL WORKS.
UM, SO, SO YEAH, IT'S A, IT'S A, IT'S IS DIFFICULT AND I WILL DEFINITELY HELP YOU ALL WITH THAT.
ONE THING TO POINT OUT ABOUT WHEN YOU HAVE A CHARTER AMENDMENT IN THE ELECTION ORDINANCE, YOU DO HAVE, YOU KNOW, THE BALLOT WILL READ THIS, YOU KNOW, SHALL THE CHARTER BE AMENDED TO BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.
AND THEN ANOTHER PART OF THE ELECTION ORDINANCE IS IF PROPOSITION A, LET'S JUST SAY IS APPROVED BY THE VOTERS, THE CHARTER WILL BE AMENDED AS FOLLOWS AND IT LAYS OUT EXACTLY WHAT THE CHANGES ARE, INCLUDING STRUCK THROUGH LANGUAGE, UNDERLYING
[01:55:01]
ADDITIONAL LANGUAGE.SO THE VOTERS, THE PEOPLE WILL HAVE ACCESS TO THE, THE EXACT CHANGES THAT ARE BEING MADE.
UM, ONE THING THAT USUALLY IS NOT IN BALLOT LANGUAGE IS ANY KIND OF POLICY, YOU KNOW, THE REASON WE'RE DOING THIS OR REASON, EVEN THOUGH THOSE ARE LEGITIMATE AND IMPORTANT THINGS, THE BALLOT LANGUAGE ISN'T THE PLACE FOR THAT.
AND SO, SO YES, I MEAN, I WILL GLADLY HELP ALL OF YOU WITH, WITH BALLOT LANGUAGE AND, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER COMES IN YOUR REPORT.
UM, OBVIOUSLY COUNCIL WILL CONSIDER THAT, BUT IT MAY BE THAT THEY WOULD END UP TWEAKING THAT LANGUAGE BY THE TIME THE ELECTION'S ORDERED.
SO, BUT YES, I'M HAPPY TO HELP.
COMMISSIONER GREENBERG LOOKED AT I, I THINK 2012 BECAUSE THAT WAS ANOTHER TIME WHEN THE SIGNATURE THRESHOLDS WERE CHANGED AND I THINK ALL THE CHARTER AMENDMENTS HAD FISCAL, UM, THIS WILL HAVE NO IMPACT ON FISCAL, UM, COSTS OR WHATEVER, OR THIS WILL INCREASE OR DECREASE.
UM, IS THAT PART OF WHAT WE DO OR WHERE DO THOSE STATEMENTS COME FROM OR ARE THEY NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO BE INCLUDED IN 2024? SO THE, THE FISCAL IMPACT IS REQUIRED, AND I'M JUST CHECKING TO SEE IF IT'S A REQUIRED PART OF THE BALLOT LANGUAGE.
I THINK IT IS, OR IT WAS A SEPARATE SENTENCE, I'M PRETTY SURE.
YEAH, LET ME, UH, WHERE IT'S, WHERE IS IT? OH NO, I'M SORRY.
IT'LL BE IN, IT'LL BE IN THE STATE LAW, NOT IN THE CHARTER.
SO FOR CHARTER AMENDMENT ELECTIONS, NOT FOR INITIATIVE AND REFERENDUM, AND THOSE ONES, SOMETIMES THE, SOMETIMES IT WILL INCLUDE FISCAL IMPACT 'CAUSE THAT'S THE WAY THE PETITIONERS WROTE IT, OR SOMETIMES IT'S SOMETHING THE CITY HAS WANTED TO PUT IN.
BUT AS FAR AS, UH, THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT CAN CO CODE IS CONCERNED FISCAL, OKAY, SO NOTICE OF THE ELECTION HAS TO INCLUDE AN ESTIMATE OF THE ANTICIPATED FISCAL IMPACT.
UM, SO I DON'T THINK IT HAS TO BE IN THE BALLOT LANGUAGE ITSELF.
IT'S IN THE NOTICE OF THE ELECTION.
HOLD ON, LEMME TRY IT ONE MORE TIME.
AND WHILE CAROLINE'S LOOKING THAT UP, I'LL FOR THE, THE RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE 2018 CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION, WHICH IS KIND OF WHAT WE ARE BASING OUR RECOMMENDATIONS ON, UH, COUNSEL DID SPECIFICALLY ASK FOR A FISCAL IMPACT FOR THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION TO INCLUDE A STATEMENT ON THE FISCAL IMPACT IN OUR RECOMMENDATIONS.
I HAVE NOT RE-REVIEWED THE RESOLUTION FOR THE 2024 COMMISSION TO SEE IF THAT IS A REQUIREMENT, BUT I THINK MOST FOLKS HAVE BEEN INCLUDING IT.
I DON'T SEE IT IN THE RESOLUTION, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S NOT THERE.
SO I MEAN, CERTAINLY THE, THE REQUIREMENT FOR THE FISCAL IMPACT DOES HAVE TO BE INCLUDED IN THE NOTICE.
UH, BUT I'M NOT SEEING FOR THE CHARTER AMENDMENT ELECTIONS THAT IT HAS TO BE IN THE BALLOT LANGUAGE.
UH, BUT LIKE I SAID, IT CERTAINLY COULD BE SOMETHING THAT YOU ALL ADD, AND IT COULD BE SOMETHING, ESPECIALLY FOR INITIATIVE REFERENDUM, ET CETERA.
UM, YOU CAN INCLUDE A FISCAL IMPACT, BUT RIGHT NOW IT'S NOT REQUIRED FOR THOSE KIND OF ELECTIONS.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON THE TRANSPARENCY PROVISIONS? I THINK WE'RE GETTING VERY CLOSE, IT SOUNDS LIKE, ON THIS, UM, TO HAVING A FINAL RECOMMENDATION THAT WE'RE READY TO VOTE ON.
SO THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR WORK TO THE WORKING GROUP THEN, CYNTHIA.
SO THE NEXT ITEM THAT YOU ALL HAVE, WE DO HAVE A MEMO FROM COMMISSIONER DWYER ALONG WITH PROPOSED ALTERNATIVE PROPOSED RECOMMENDATIONS ON THE CITIZEN PETITION, UM, FROM THE WORKING GROUP AND SPECIFICALLY COMMISSIONER DWYER.
I'M CURIOUS IF YOU ALL WANT TO HAVE DISCUSSION ON THOSE ITEMS TONIGHT OR, BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT IS GOING TO BE A SIGNIFICANT FO FOCUS OF THE TOWN HALL IF WE WOULD LIKE TO DEFER FURTHER DISCUSSION UNTIL AFTER THAT MEETING.
BUT I WILL LEAVE IT UP TO THE WORKING GROUPS WILL, I MEAN, IF, IF JC WANTS TO DISCUSS, UM, BECAUSE HE'S, HE SUBMITTED THAT HE'S GOT THE MEMO.
SO CAN Y'ALL HEAR ME? WE CAN HEAR YOU.
UM, WELL, I'M SINCERELY REGRETFUL AND I CAN'T BE WITH YOU IN PERSON THIS EVENING.
UM, AND I'LL, I'LL SAVE MY VOICE IN YOUR EARS BY BEING BRIEF HERE.
UM, THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT, UH, HAS BEEN, HAS BEEN NOTED AS, AS HAS BEEN DIVISIVE, UH, ON OUR WORKING GROUP.
AND, UM, WE DID PROVIDE A GOOD DEAL OF PRE-READING TO SORT OF LAY OUT THE ARGUMENTS FOR AND AGAINST, UM, I HAD HOPED TO HAVE A VOTE ON THIS THIS EVENING, BUT, UM, I KNOW THAT COMMISSIONER MCGIVEN HAS, UM, CONTACTED ME WITH SOME POTENTIAL COMPROMISE LANGUAGE THAT I THINK, UM, ADDRESSES THE MOST POWERFUL ARGUMENT AGAINST THE 5%, WHICH IS THE POTENTIAL, UH, INTRODUCTION OF A, AN INCENTIVE TO PUSH PETITIONS TOWARDS CHANGES TO THE CITY CHARTER, AS I'M WONDERING IF HE WOULD LIKE TO LAY THAT OUT.
[02:00:02]
SURE.UM, AND I APOLOGIZE THAT I DON'T HAVE A DRAFT OF IT AVAILABLE WITH ME TODAY, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, I, I REACHED OUT TO COMMISSIONER DWYER AND I, I SHARED WITH HIM AS I, I THINK I'VE SHARED BEFORE THAT MY RESERVATION, MAIN RESERVATION ABOUT, UH, HIS, UH, OR THE PROPOSAL TO, UM, TIE PETITION AND INITIATIVES EXCLUSIVELY TO A PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, AS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED HERE, CHANNELING MORE, UM, VALID INITIATIVES TOWARDS THE CHARTER JUST BECAUSE WE WOULD HAVE A LOWER THRESHOLD.
UM, MY SUGGESTION TO HIM WAS THAT, UM, THERE IS A, AN ORDINANCE FOR INSTANCE IN, UM, THAT THE CITY COUNTY, CITY COUNTY COUNCIL IN INDIANAPOLIS ADOPTED, AND IT HAD, UH, LANGUAGE IN IT THAT WOULD IMPLEMENT A LIMITATION ON ASSAULT WEAPONS IN THE EVENT THAT, UH, THE STATE, UH, EVER MODIFIED, ITS, ITS STATUTE PREEMPTING LOCAL BODIES FROM DOING THAT.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THE LEGISLATURE MAY AND MAY ACTUALLY BE INSPIRED TO DO SO, IF, IF WE WERE TO DO THIS CHANGE, THE CHARTER REQUIREMENTS SAYING THAT IT NEEDS TO BE EITHER 5% OR 20,000 SIGNATURES, WHICHEVER IS LOWER, TO ALLOW A MUNICIPALITY TO OPT INTO AN APPROACH.
LIKE IF WE COULD, AS A MUNICIPALITY, IF WE'RE GIVEN PERMISSION BY THE LEGISLATURE TO OPT IN TO SAY JUST 5% OF, UM, QUALIFIED VOTERS THEN FOR CHARTER? FOR CHARTER, YEAH.
I BASICALLY, I, I WAS SUGGESTING THAT WE, WE COULD, UH, OFFER AN AMENDMENT THAT WOULD, IN THE EVENT THAT STATE LAW PERMITTED US TO DO THAT, UM, ATTACH AFFIRMATIVELY ATTACH A 5% REQUIREMENT TO BOTH CHARTERS AND PETITION INITIATIVES.
AND IN THAT EVENT, IF IT WAS TIED ONLY TO THE POSSIBILITY THAT, YOU KNOW, THE CITY COULD OPT INTO WANT THAT APPROACH, THEN IT WOULD AVOID, YOU KNOW, PITFALL THE MONKEY PAW OF, UM, YOU KNOW, ACCIDENTALLY CHANNELING THINGS INTO THE, OR IN UNINTENTIONALLY CHANNELING THINGS INTO THE CHART.
SO IF I'M UNDERSTANDING CORRECTLY, WOULD THAT HAVE THE EFFECT OF AUTOMATICALLY INCREASING THE, UH, SIGNATURE THRESHOLD FOR CHARTER AMENDMENTS IF THE LEGISLATURE, YES.
SO, UM, I HAVEN'T INDEPENDENTLY VERIFIED COMMISSIONER DWYER'S NUMBERS, BUT IN HIS MEMO FOR INSTANCE, HE, UH, AT THE VERY END, HE CALCULATED THAT 5% OF ELIGIBLE ORDERS WOULD BE ABOUT 27,000.
COULD WE TALK ABOUT THAT NUMBER? SO LET'S TALK ABOUT IT.
AND, UH, SOME OF YOU MIGHT KNOW THIS OFF THE TOP OF THE HEAD, UH, OF YOUR HEAD.
SO FIVE PER THAT WOULD MEAN THERE'S 540 QUALIFIED VOTERS, 540,000 QUALIFIED VOTERS.
AND SO WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A QUALIFIED VOTER AND A REGISTERED VOTER? THERE WERE 660,000 REGISTERED VOTERS IN NOVEMBER, 2022, THIS SUSPEND LIST.
SO UNDER THE DEFINITION OF QUALIFIED VOTER, UH, UNDER THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION, IT MEANS ALL OF THE QUALIFICATIONS PLUS, UM, WELL, OKAY, THERE'S DIFFERENT WAYS THAT TERM IS USED, BUT FOR OUR PURPOSES, WHEN WE SAY QUALIFIED VOTER, WE MEAN REGISTERED VOTER.
SO SOMEONE WHO IS QUALIFIED TO BE REGISTERED AND IN FACT IS REGISTERED.
BUT WHEN YOU'RE, I DON'T KNOW, QUITE, I DON'T KNOW IF I QUITE CAUGHT YOUR QUESTION, BUT WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO CALCULATE THE NUMBER OF SIGNATURES NEEDED OR THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE YOU, YOU DO NOT INCLUDE IN THAT NUMBER THE VOTERS WHO ARE ON SUSPENSE.
AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS, UM, VOTERS WHO ARE ON SUSPENSE ARE PEOPLE BASICALLY THAT THE VOTER REGISTRAR DOESN'T KNOW EXACTLY WHETHER THEY STILL LIVE AT THEIR ADDRESS ANYMORE.
AND SO THERE'S LIKE A NOTICE THAT'S BEEN SENT OUT TO THOSE VOTERS SAYING, DO YOU STILL LIVE HERE? AND THE VOTER DOESN'T RESPOND TO THAT, THAT VOTER, I'M NOT ABLE TO HEAR CAROLINE OR
OH, IS YOUR MICROPHONE ON? SORRY? IS YOUR MICROPHONE ON? IT'S ON.
UM, ARE YOU ABLE TO HEAR NOW, COMMISSIONER DWYER? YES, THANK YOU.
SO I WOULD SAY, SO THE WAY WE WOULD USE THAT TERM MEANS QUALIFIED OR MEANS REGISTERED VOTER, BUT WHEN YOU'RE CALCULATING, NO, SORRY, YOU CUT OUT AGAIN.
I'M AFRAID THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE MIC OR MAYBE THE INTERFACE BETWEEN THE MIC AND THE WEBINARS.
ANYTIME CAROLINE TRIES TO SPEAK, I IT GOES IN AND OUT.
UM, IT'S JUST ON MY MICROPHONE.
UH, SO JUST TO, TO REITERATE, QUALIFIED VOTER AS USED IN THIS WAY, IN THIS, IN THIS KIND OF
[02:05:01]
LANGUAGE MEANS REGISTERED VOTER.SO THEY HAVE TO MEET ALL THE QUALIFICATIONS TO BE A REGISTERED VOTER, AND THEY ARE IN FACT A REGISTERED VOTER.
WHEN YOU ARE CALCULATING THE NUMBER OF SIGNATURES REQUIRED, IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT A, A PERCENTAGE OF REGISTERED VOTERS, WHEN YOU'RE MAKING THAT CALCULATION, YOU DON'T COUNT.
THE VOTERS WHO ARE ON SUSPENSE, VOTERS WHO ARE ON SUSPENSE ARE BASICALLY ONES WHO THE VOTER REGISTRAR IS NOT SURE THAT THEY STILL LIVE WHERE THEY'RE REGISTERED.
AND SO SOME KIND OF NOTICE HAS BEEN SENT OUT OR, UM, THEIR NEW VOTER REGISTRATION CERTIFICATE WAS SENT OUT AND IT WAS RETURNED, OR THE VOTER DIDN'T RESPOND TO A NOTICE.
SO THEY GO ON THE SUSPENSE LIST.
UM, VOTERS LIKE THAT ARE STILL ELIGIBLE TO VOTE AND THEY'RE STILL ELIGIBLE TO SIGN A PETITION.
UH, AS LONG AS THEY FILL OUT WHAT'S CALLED A STATEMENT OF RESIDENTS WHEN THEY SHOW UP TO VOTE, THAT SHOWS THEY'RE STILL IN THE DISTRICT, WHAT HAVE YOU.
I DON'T MEAN TO GET TOO FAR INTO THE WEEDS THERE, BUT AS FAR AS WHEN THE NUMBERS ARE SOMETIMES DIFFERENT, THE ABSOLUTE NUMBER OF REGISTERED VOTERS MAY NOT BE THE EXACT SAME AS THE NUMBER OF REGISTERED VOTERS FOR PURPOSES OF CALCULATION OF HOW MANY SIGNATURES ARE NEED BECAUSE THOSE SUSPENSE VOTERS ARE NOT COUNTED IN THE TOTAL.
THE REASON IT'S, I IMPORTANT TO GET A HANDLE ON THIS IS BECAUSE I, I THINK BOTH, UH, COUNSELING WITH THE PUBLIC, THERE WOULD BE A STICKER SHOCK BETWEEN 33 AND 27 K.
IT'S JUST, IT'S, I KNOW IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE IT WOULD BE NECESSARILY THAT SIGNIFICANT.
UM, AND SO IF WE ARE CERTAIN THAT THE DISCOUNT FACTOR IS TY IS TYPICALLY SIMILAR FROM THE 660 K THAT WERE REGISTERED IN 2022 TO THE 540 IMPLIED BY THE 27 K AT THE 5%, THEN I, I WOULD FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH 5%.
BUT IT, IT SEEMS WHERE SORT OF THE BUSINESS END OF THE DISCUSSION WHERE WE KIND OF NEED TO KNOW WHAT, WHAT IS THE EXPECTED NUMBER WE WOULD SEE THE NEXT COUPLE OF CYCLES AT A, AT A 5% RATE.
UH, AND IN GENERAL, I SUPPORT, UH, A RATE, UH, AND I THINK IT'S WORTHY TO MOVE IT TO COUNCIL FOR THEIR DELIBERATION.
I JUST AM VERY CONCERNED ABOUT A RATE WHERE IT'S 30,000 OR 33,000 OR A BROAD, EVEN BIGGER NUMBER IN 2020 T FOUR, UH, BECAUSE IT'S A POOR THIS YEAR.
AND WE WOULD HAVE ADDITIONAL REGISTERED GROWTH THAT WOULD BE, UH, A TALKING POINT USED IN THE COMMUNITY IN A WAY THAT WOULD DETACH IT FROM WHAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT HERE WITH JUST 27.
UM, SO, UM, UH, UH, JC COULD YOU TELL US HOW YOU CALCULATED THE 27? UH, I'D HAVE TO LOOK BACK THE CALCULATION.
THE CURRENT 27 CALCULATION, I BELIEVE CAME FROM THE, UH, CLERKS BASE NUMBER CAME FROM THE CLERK'S, UH, WEBPAGE.
AND IF YOU CLICK THROUGH ON THE BLUE LINK, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE ABLE TO DO THAT THERE, UM, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO SEE WHERE IN THE ORIGINAL NUMBERS CAME FROM, THE 27,000 IN REFERENCE TO THE 1992 SHERIFFS, UH, SAVE OUR SPRINGS ORDINANCE WAS REPORTED IN THE STATESMAN.
AND I'M, I WASN'T UNABLE TO VERIFY THAT SPECIFIC NUMBER OTHER THAN THAT REPORTING.
SO I, I UNDERSTAND THIS IS NOT YOUR PROPOSAL THAT YOU'RE MAKING TODAY, BUT SORT OF ALLUDING TO IT, MY QUESTION WOULD BE UNDER THE CURRENT CITY CHARTER, IT SAYS THAT THE PETITIONER INITIATIVE PROCESS IS QUOTE, SUBJECT TO THE REQUIREMENTS.
AND, AND SO I'M READING OFF THE, THE OTHER MEMO, WHICH I, WHICH I DRAFTED, WHICH IS UP FOR CONSIDERATION.
WE DON'T HAVE TO SPEND A LOT OF TIME TALKING ABOUT IT, BUT IT SAYS THAT THE PROCESS IS QUOTE, SUBJECT TO THE REQUIREMENTS PRESCRIBED BY STATE LAW FOR A PETITION TO, TO INITIATE AN AMENDMENT TO THIS CHARTER AND SHALL BE IN THE FORM AND VALIDATED IN THE MANNER PRESCRIBED BY STATE LAW.
SO MY QUESTION TO CAROLINE, I GUESS IS IF IN THAT INSTANCE WE SAID, WELL, WE WE DEFAULT TO A CHANGE IN, IN STATE LAW, IT'S, I'M WONDERING IF THE CHART, THE CHARTER LANGUAGE AS DRAFTED WOULD ALREADY GIVE THE OPTION TO, IF THE CHARTER, IF STATE LAW WAS MODIFIED TO SAY, WELL, YOU CAN DO 20,000 OR 5%, WHICHEVER YOU WANT, MUNICIPALITY.
IS THAT ALREADY THEN REFLECTED IN THE CHARTER LANGUAGE? WE CURRENTLY HAVE, I, I DON'T KNOW WHO WOULD NECESSARILY HAVE THAT DISCRETION, I GUESS CITY COUNCIL OR, OR SOMEBODY.
BUT WOULD A CHARTER, ANOTHER CHARTER AMENDMENT NEED TO BE PASSED IN THAT INSTANCE IF WE'RE ALREADY DEFAULTING TO STATE LAW AND STATE LAW IS WHAT'S BEING CHANGED? UH, I'M NOT SURE THAT I A HUNDRED PERCENT UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION, BUT SO I MEAN EITHER YOU ALL WOULD JUST HAVE TO NO LONGER REFER TO HOW CHARTER AMENDMENTS ARE.
YOU KNOW, THAT THE INITIATIVE, HOW THE CHARTER AMENDMENT IS DONE IS NO LONGER TIED TO HOW IT'S HOW THE CHARTER AMENDMENTS ARE DONE.
'CAUSE WE CAN'T CHANGE THE NUMBERS FOR CHARTER AMENDMENTS OF
[02:10:01]
THE LEGISLATURE CAN DO THAT.BUT I'M NOT SURE THAT, I'M SORRY, I'M NOT SAYING UNDERSTAND.
SO COMMISSIONER, UM, MCGIVEN HAD ALLUDED TO A PROPOSED LANGUAGE SWITCH IN THIS THAT WOULD SAY THAT ESSENTIALLY IT WAS A, IT WOULD BE A SORT OF TRIGGER LAW THAT IF STATE LAW WAS MODIFIED TO SAY, OH, YOU COULD DO 20,000 OR 5% OF QUALIFIED VOTERS, WHATEVER YOU WANT MUNICIPALITY, RIGHT? BUT THEN AUSTIN'S CHARTER LANGUAGE WOULD SAY, WELL, THEN WE GO UP, UP TO THE HIGHER TOTAL.
IS THAT RIGHT? WELL, SINCE THE, THE EXAMPLE THAT I GAVE FROM INDIANAPOLIS WAS AT ABOUT A ASSAULT WEAPON SPAN, I WAS TRYING TO AVOID USING THE TERM TRIGGER LAW.
UM, SO, SO THEN MY QUESTION TO YOU, CAROLINE, IS UNDER THE CURRENT CHARTER LANGUAGE, WOULD THAT ALREADY BE POSSIBLE WITHOUT A, WITHOUT A FIX BEING MADE IF CH, IF STATE LAW WAS MODIFIED TO GIVE MUNICIPALITIES THE OPTION, COULDN'T THE CITY THEN JUST CHOOSE THAT HIGHER OPTION WITHOUT HAVING TO CHANGE THE CHARTER LANGUAGE? AND CAROLINE, IF YOU COULD USE THE OTHER MICROPHONE, WE WOULD APPRECIATE IT ON THE WEB, ON THE WEBINAR, UH,
I MEAN, IF, IF THE LEGISLATURE CHANGED THAT LANGUAGE IN CHAPTER NINE OF THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE TO SAY, YOU KNOW, THE LESSER OR THE, THE HIGHER OF 20,000 OR 5%, YOU KNOW, IF THEY CHANGE THAT LANGUAGE AND OUR CHARTER JUST REFERRED TO THAT, THAT PART OF THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE, THEN, THEN YEAH, THAT WOULD EFFECTUATE THAT.
BUT THE CHANCES, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THEN IT JUST DEPENDS ON WHETHER THE LEGISLATURE, LEGISLATURE WOULD SEE FIT TO MAKE THAT CHANGE.
AND, AND SO, AND I DON'T MEAN TO, I OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE GONNA DROP THIS, YOU'RE GONNA WORK ON THIS, BUT I'M JUST TRYING TO ANTICIPATE CONCERNS BECAUSE I, I MEAN, I, I THINK THAT WE ALL AGREE THAT SOME MODIFICATION SHOULD HAPPEN.
I JUST DON'T, I'M NOT, I'M NOT IN IN FAVOR OF PASSING SOMETHING JUST FOR THE SAKE OF PASSING SOMETHING SO THAT VOTERS CAN HAVE ANOTHER THING TO VOTE ON IF IT'S ALREADY POSSIBLE.
SO AT ANY RATE, I, I DON'T WANNA SPEAK ON ANYTHING THAT YOU'RE NOT PROPOSING TODAY, BUT I JUST WANTED TO SORT OF FLAG THAT FOR FUTURE CONCERN.
I THINK WE SHOULD SEE, I MEAN, IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE BEGINNING TO HAVE SOME AGREEMENT OR CONSENSUS AROUND THIS, AND MAYBE THAT'S, YOU KNOW, FOR THE NEXT ROUND IS TO KIND OF SEE WHAT THE SPECIFIC LANGUAGE WOULD PROPOSE.
BECAUSE THEN THE OTHER ALTERNATIVE IS THAT THE LEGISLATURE GIVES A CHOICE.
AND SO THEN IN THAT SITUATION, WE WOULD WANNA HAVE EXPLICIT LANGUAGE AROUND WHICH OPTION WE'RE SELECTING.
SO, UM, BUT I THINK WITHOUT KIND OF WORDSMITHING THE SPECIFIC CHARTER LANGUAGE, I'M NOT SURE WE'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO AGREE ON THAT, UM, TONIGHT.
BUT I, BUT I WOULD BE VERY INTERESTED IN HEARING A RECOMMENDATION FROM THE WORKING GROUP ON THAT.
AGAIN, I APOLOGIZE FOR NOT HAVING THE SPECIFIC LANGUAGE AVAILABLE WITH ME TONIGHT.
I HAD A WHOLE PLAN FOR HOW I WAS GONNA DRAFT IT AND PRESENT IT, BUT ALAS, YOU'VE BEEN A LITTLE BUSY.
ANY OTHER, NO, I MEAN, I CAN JUST SPEAK REALLY QUICKLY TO, I MEAN, I THINK THAT THE, THE ALTERNATIVE MEMO SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.
UM, AS I MENTIONED, MY CONCERN IS IN AVOIDING, UH, INCENTIVIZING CHARTER AMENDMENTS VERSUS INITIATIVE PETITIONS, AND PARTICULARLY IF THE, UM, IF THE CHARTER AMENDMENT IS PASSED, THAT WE, IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE, WE'RE ALMOST, WE'RE, THERE'S MAYBE CONSENSUS AROUND THAT WE WANNA MOVE THESE TO HIGHER TURNOUT ELECTIONS.
THAT IT, WE COULD BE THEN SORT OF SHOOTING OURSELVES IN THE FOOT BY INCENTIVIZING CHARTER COMMISSION CHARTER ELECTIONS, WHICH I UNDERSTAND FROM THE LAW DEPARTMENT ARE LESS, UH, LESS SUBJECT TO OUR CONTROL OR VOTER'S CONTROL IN TERMS OF WHEN THEY OCCUR.
SO, SO CAN YOU ALL ON THE WORKING GROUP, WALK US THROUGH, I KNOW WE HAVE THE MEMO FROM COMMISSIONER DWYER, BUT CAN YOU WALK US THROUGH THE OTHER, I THINK WE HAD THREE RECOMMENDATIONS, UM, AND JUST KIND OF WHERE THEY ORIGINATED FROM AND WHAT THE, I MAY HAVE PRINTED TOO MANY OF THEM, BUT I'M FINDING THREE.
I THINK THE VERSION TWO MIGHT HAVE BEEN CONFUSING 'CAUSE WE ONLY HAD THE TWO RECOMMENDATIONS PRINTED FOR OKAY.
SO THERE WERE JUST THE TWO ALTERNATIVE RECOMMENDATIONS, ONE WHERE WE RECOMMEND A INCREASE IN THE THRESHOLD AND ONE WHERE WE DO NOT.
MADAM CHAIR, I JUST WANT TO MAKE THE, UH, TWO POINTS.
UH, ONE, I WOULD BE EAGER TO SUPPORT A, UH, TRIGGER BASED ON LEGISLATURE, STATE LEGISLATURE CHANGE OF A PERCENTAGE.
[02:15:01]
THAT SEEMS LIKE A VERY NICE COMPROMISE.UH, I DO WANT TO POINT OUT THAT I'M A BIT CONCERNED ABOUT THAT 5%.
NOW, UH, AS, AS WE KIND OF ARE GETTING TO THE POINT OF PRESENTING IT TO COUNCIL AND PUBLIC, WE'VE BEEN CORRELATING 5% WITH 27 K.
LET'S JUST DOUBLE CHECK THAT BECAUSE IF 5% IS 33 K OR 30 K, OR AND ASSUME 24, 24 GROWTH, WHICH I THINK WILL BRING SOME ADDITIONAL REGISTERED VOTERS FROM 2022, IT WOULD BE PROBLEMATIC IF WE ARE ASSUMING THE NUMBER WE'RE PITCHED AGAINST 27 K AND COUNCIL FINDS OUT IT'S 32 OR 33, UM, IN, IN THE RATE.
SO IF THE RATE NEEDS TO BE 3.75% AS OPPOSED TO 5%, BECAUSE ONCE WE LOOK AT THE TYPICAL MATH OF THE FOLKS THAT GET DISCOUNTED OFF THE VOTER RE REGISTRATION FROM SUSPENSE, IF I'M UNDERSTANDING THE DYNAMICS HERE CORRECTLY, LET'S, I THINK WE'RE JUST AT THE POINT WHERE IT'S LIKE WE REALLY GOTTA MAKE SURE THESE NUMBERS ARE ARE CORRECT BECAUSE THE COUNCIL IS GONNA GET FEEDBACK FROM THE PUBLIC, AND OBVIOUSLY AT ELECTION TIME, THERE WILL BE A LOT OF, OF ADDITIONAL RIGOR THAT WE MAYBE HAVE NOT HAD.
SO LET'S JUST MAKE SURE THE NUMBER IS THE NUMBER.
I THINK THAT WOULD ALSO BE IMPORTANT FOR US TO KNOW BEFORE THE TOM HALL MEETING ON THE EIGHTH, UM, PARTICULARLY IF WE'RE GONNA BE DEBATING THESE PROPOSALS WITH THE PUBLIC THAT TO HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE CONFIRMED ON OUR NUMBERS.
UH, COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, UM, SO ONE OF THE REASONS THAT'S BEEN PRESENTED FOR KEEPING IT AT, UM, THE 20,000 VERSE OR 5%, WHICHEVER IS LESS, YOU KNOW, KEEPING IT CONSISTENT WITH THE CHARTER IS TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE CHARTER AMENDMENT SO THAT WE DON'T INCENTIVIZE CHANGES TO THE CHARTER THAT REALLY JUST BELONG IN AN ORDINANCE.
BUT THERE IS ANOTHER REASON TO NOT GO WITH THE 5%.
I KNOW THE 5% OR A PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION IS SORT OF APPEALING AND SEEMS TO BE LIKE FAIR BECAUSE AS THE POPULATION GROWS, OF COURSE THE REQUIREMENT SHOULD GROW.
BUT THE REALITY IS, IF YOU'VE EVER COLLECTED SIGNATURES OR VALIDATED A PETITION, AS THE POPULATION OF AUSTIN DOUBLES, THE WORK FOR THAT PETITION WILL DOUBLE.
IT DOESN'T GET EASIER BECAUSE AUSTIN GOT BIGGER, IT GETS HARDER.
SO HAVING A PERCENTAGE, WHETHER IT'S 33,000 NOW OR 33,000 IN A FEW YEARS, IT'S GONNA GET THERE AND IT'S GONNA BE A LOT MORE WORK THAN 20,000, WHICH WE'VE HEARD OUR SPEAKERS TELL US IS ALREADY A LOT OF WORK.
SO I THINK THAT'S THE REASON IT'S KIND OF CAPPED IN THE, UM, STATE LAW AT 5% OR 20,000 BECAUSE AFTER THAT YOU GET TO A POINT WHERE IT'S KIND OF UNREASONABLE TO BE ABLE TO PUT TOGETHER AND VALIDATE FOR THE CLERK A PETITION.
SO I, I WOULD NOT GO WITH A PERCENTAGE, EVEN THOUGH I UNDERSTAND THE APPEAL.
IF I CAN PIGGYBACK ON THAT, UM, I AGREE WITH BETSY AND THANK YOU FOR RAISING THAT BECAUSE I, YOU KNOW, ON PAPER, VERY LOGICAL, IT MAKES SENSE.
I ALSO UNDERSTAND THE APPEAL OF, OF A PERCENTAGE BASED SYSTEM, BUT I THINK WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT REAL POLICIES AND CONCRETE POLICIES THAT IMPACT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE'S, THE WORK THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO TO, TO IMPROVE THE CITY OF BOSTON, UM, IN THIS CASE, WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE MAY BE DISPARATE IMPACTS.
IT'S, I I KIND OF LOOK AT THIS AS LIKE A FLAT TAX, WHICH I THINK MOST PEOPLE ARE GONNA AGREE DOESN'T ACTUALLY WORK OUT TO BE EXACTLY EVEN FOR EVERYBODY BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, 10% OF YOUR INCOME, IF YOU'RE MAKING $50,000, YOU FEEL THAT IMPACT A LOT MORE THAN IF 10% OF YOUR INCOME IF YOU'RE MAKING 500,000.
SO, UM, I'M NOT IN SUPPORTIVE OF A PERCENTAGE FOR THAT REASON.
I ALSO JUST, MAYBE THIS IS JUST MY, YOU KNOW, KNEE JERK, UM, REACTION, BUT I'M NOT SURE THAT I WOULD FEEL COMFORTABLE, UM, SEEDING MORE POWER TO THE STATE LEGISLATURE OVER A STATE LEGISLATURE, OVER, UM, OVER, YOU KNOW, THINGS THAT SHOULD BE IN OUR CHARTER AND UNDER OUR CONTROL.
MAYBE WE'LL END UP IN THE SAME PLACE AS THE STATE LEGISLATURE, BUT THE MORE I THINK ABOUT IT, THE LESS I OF A FAN I AM ABOUT, ABOUT SORT OF PINNING IT TO THERE BECAUSE IT'S EITHER THAT WE'RE, WE'RE SAYING WE DON'T NECESSARILY WANNA ADDRESS THIS QUESTION NOW, SO LET'S CONVENIENTLY SAY THE STATE LEGISLATURE CAN DECIDE LATER, OR WE GENUINELY THINK THAT THE, THE STATE LEGISLATURE SHOULD BE THE ONES DECIDING HOW MANY PETITION SIGNATURES WE NEED IN AUSTIN.
UM, AND I DON'T AGREE WITH EITHER OF THOSE.
SO I KNOW COMMISSIONER MCGILLAN HAS BEEN VERY PATIENT
UM, I WAS JUST GONNA ASK A TECHNICAL QUESTION ABOUT WHO DOES THAT CALCULATION, LIKE THE, THE NUMBER OF, OF VOTERS AND LIKE AT WHAT POINT IN TIME IS THAT DONE FOR ANY PARTICULAR PETITION? SO WHEN WE HEAR OF A PETITION
[02:20:01]
BEING CIRCULATED, WE REACH OUT TO THE COUNTIES AND GET ALL OF THEIR VOTER ROLLS.UM, WE COMBINE THAT TOGETHER AND WE HAVE A CALCULATION THAT WE USE.
SO AS WE SIT HERE TODAY, THERE, THERE REALLY WOULDN'T BE A WAY TO CALCULATE THAT FOR NOVEMBER, 2024.
THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD CALCULATE WITHIN THE 180 DAYS OR SO PRIOR TO THAT ELECTION? NO, THAT, SO FOR NOVEMBER, 2024, YEAH, AGAIN, WE HAVEN'T HAD A PETITION, SO WE REQUESTED THE ROLES, I BELIEVE A FEW MONTHS AGO.
UM, SO I MEAN, WE'D PROBABLY BE ABLE TO CALCULATE THAT NOW IF WE'VE RECEIVED ALL THE INFORMATION FROM ALL OF THE COUNTIES.
UM, I KNOW WE HAVE TRAVIS COUNTY, I'M NOT SURE ABOUT WILLIAMSON COUNTY.
UM, BUT YEAH, WE CAN USE THAT FORMULA, UM, THAT WE UTILIZE.
AND, UH, I CAN SHARE THAT INFORMATION, THAT FORMULA WITH YOU.
I BELIEVE WE PRESENTED WHEN WE PRESENTED EARLIER YOUR FIRST MEETING.
YOU DID PRESENT THAT, UH, IN THE OLD ROOM.
SO SINCE WE'RE AT 20,000, YOU PROBABLY WOULDN'T NEED TO ROUTINELY CALCULATE 700, 786,000 SAID MM-HMM,
IS THAT MINUS THAT WAS REGISTERED OR QUALIFIED? WE THAT WE DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S MINUS SUSPENSE.
WE HAVE TO LOOK BECAUSE THAT'S OKAY.
WE'RE, WE'RE NOT SURE IF THAT INCLUDES THE SUSPENSE, UM, VOTERS REGISTERED.
SO WE, WE TAKE THE FORMULA IS WE TAKE THE REGISTERED VOTERS, WE SU SUBTRACT THE SUSPENSE LIST VOTERS, WHICH WILL GIVE US THE QUALIFIED VOTERS.
THEN WE GET THE, THE SECOND STEP IS THE QUALIFIED VOTERS TIMES THE PERCENTAGE OF THE REQUIRED OR REQUIRED FOR THE PETITION.
SO, SO COULD WE ASK MYRNA, AFTER THIS MEETING THAT YOU ALL, CAN YOU GO BACK TO, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE BASED ON THIS MOST RECENT SURVEY, BUT WHATEVER THE MOST RECENT DATA IS THAT YOU HAVE SURE.
ON THE NUMBER OF QUALIFIED VOTERS AND SEND THAT OUT TO THE ENTIRE COMMISSION JUST SO THAT WE ALL HAVE THAT NUMBER AHEAD OF THE TOWN HALL MEETING.
ISN'T THERE A VOTER REGISTRATION DEADLINE COMING UP FOR THE PRIMARY? AND MAYBE YOU SHOULD DO IT RIGHT AFTER THAT.
IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE TO OBTAIN ALL OF THAT INFORMATION FROM THE COUNTIES.
UM, TRAVIS COUNTY POSTS IT, BUT RIGHT.
BUT WE DON'T GET WILLIAMSON HAYES AND BASTROP, SO WE COMBINE ALL OF THE NUMBERS AND THEN, I MEAN, PEOPLE REGISTER CAN REGISTER EVERY DAY.
IT'S JUST REALLY DIFFICULT FOR US TO GET THAT INFORMATION IMPORT INTO OUR SYSTEM, JUST DO ALL THE BEHIND THE SCENES.
AND WE DON'T, WE DON'T NEED YOU TO MOVE MOUNTAINS.
I THINK WE'RE JUST TRYING TO GET A SENSE OF BALLPARK HERE.
AND SO IF YOU CAN SEND US, YOU KNOW, THE LAST KIND OF QUALIFIED VOTER CALCULATION THAT YOU'VE DONE, AND THEN LET US KNOW ALSO THE DATE THAT IT WAS DONE ON, AND WE CAN KIND OF MR. COLE DECIDE HOW MUCH WEIGHT TO GET TO MR FOR EXPECTATIONS SETTING.
WELL, SO THERE IS A, UM, CI CITIZEN INITIATIVES SPECIAL REPORT MM-HMM.
THAT WAS GIVEN TO US IN ONE OF OUR FIRST MEETINGS.
AND IT SAYS QUALIFIED VOTERS AS OF, UH, 2018, WHERE ALMOST 33,000.
SORRY, THAT WAS, I'M SORRY, AS OF 2018.
SO IF I CAN, SORRY, IF I CAN POINT OUT ON THE CITY CLERK'S WEBSITE, THEY HAVE A PETITIONS PAGE AND THEY HAVE A CHART AS OF JANUARY 31ST, 2023.
UH, AGAIN, THAT'S A YEAR OLD, SO, HUH, OKAY.
AND I JUST ALSO WANTED TO RETURN TO WHAT WAS SAID BEFORE ABOUT,
[02:25:01]
UM, AND I THINK MY POINT EARLIER WAS MAYBE NOT, UM, DID NOT LAND AS, AS I'D HOPED, OUR CURRENT CHARTER LANGUAGE DOES PEG US TO STATE LAW.THERE'S, SO WE'RE ALREADY THERE.
AND SO, I MEAN, THAT WAS MY POINT, THAT IF STATE LAW CHANGES, THEN WE WOULD AUTOMATICALLY, YEAH.
BUT WE ARE THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION DECIDING WHAT TO DO IN THE FUTURE.
WE DON'T HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE.
WE COULD ALSO JUST, WE COULD LEAVE IT THERE BECAUSE IF IT'S LIKE MORE OR LESS THEN, THEN THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE.
I JUST DON'T WANT TO, TO, IN THE FUTURE, SEED IT TO A CHANGE IN STATE LAW, WHICH COULD BE CHANGED MUCH HIGHER LIKE THAT THEY COULD SET THE THRESHOLD MUCH HIGHER.
THEY COULD SUDDENLY DECIDE THAT, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THERE'S SOME ISSUE IN SOME PARTICULAR CITY, SUDDENLY THE THRESHOLD NOW FOR EVERYBODY IN THE STATE FOR CHARTER AMENDMENTS, THEY WANNA MOVE IT TO 50,000 OR, YOU KNOW, 20% OF, OF QUALIFIED VOTERS.
I DON'T, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY WOULD DO ON THAT.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IF WE HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO, TO MAKE A DETERMINATION, A DECISION ABOUT WHAT THOSE THRESHOLDS SHOULD BE IN AUSTIN, I THINK THAT WE SHOULD TAKE THAT OPPORTUNITY, EVEN IF THAT MEANS NO CHANGE, BECAUSE WE FUNCTIONALLY KNOW WHAT THAT NUMBER IS RIGHT NOW.
I THINK, UM, YOU KNOW, AT THIS POINT WE HAD TALKED ABOUT POTENTIALLY COMING BACK WITH ANOTHER RECOMMENDATION FROM THE WORK GROUP, BUT BASED ON WHAT I AM KIND OF HEARING FROM EVERYONE, I THINK IT MIGHT BE MOST HELPFUL FOR US TO GO TO THE PUBLIC MEETING, GO TO THE TOWN HALL, SEE WHAT KIND OF FEEDBACK WE GET, UM, AND THEN HEAR FROM MYRNA ON KIND OF WHAT'S THE MOST RECENT QUALIFIED VOTER'S NUMBER, AND THEN RECONVENE AT OUR MEETING ON FEBRUARY 15TH, THE DAY AFTER VALENTINE'S DAY, AND, UH, DISCUSS FURTHER.
DOES THAT SOUND GOOD TO EVERYONE? OKAY.
ON THAT NOTE, WE WILL MOVE ON TO THE
[5. Discussion and possible action on the Initiative/Charter/Referendum Mechanics Work Groups initial recommendation on proposition lettering. (Commissioners Altamirano, Botkin, and Ortega)]
MECHANICS WORKING GROUP, WHICH IS AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FIVE.UM, THERE, COMMISSIONER ULTA MURANO, BAKKIN, AND ORGA ORTEGA AND THE PROUD WINNERS OF OUR FIRST RECOMMENDATION VOTED ON AWARD.
SO I WILL TURN IT OVER TO THAT GROUP, UM, FOR HOPEFULLY A SECOND.
THANK YOU MADAM CHAIR RECOMMENDATION.
SO THE EASY ONE IS RECOMMENDATION ROTATION OF FOR PROPOSITION LETTERING.
THIS IS A TIDIED UP VERSION THAT WE SHARED LAST TIME.
THERE'S ONLY ONE REAL MEANINGFUL CHANGE.
WE, UH, POINT PUT THE DATE DOWN OF WHEN WE PRESENTED THE RECOMMENDATION AND WE CLEANED UP THE ALTERNATIVE IMPLEMENTATION, UH, ALTERNATIVE IMPLEMENTATION OPTIONS LANGUAGE TO READ.
CITY COUNCIL COULD OPT TO PASS A RESOLUTION ORDINANCE DIRECTING THE CITY CLERK TO IMPLEMENT ALPHA ROTATION FOR PROPOSITION LABELING, PERIOD.
AND SO THEY WILL, THEY ARE AWARE THEY CAN DELIBERATE.
SINCE WE, UH, THE SENTIMENT FROM THIS GROUP WAS WE ARE THE CHARTER REVISION COMMISSION.
SO LET'S, UH, PROPOSE THINGS FOR THE CHARTER.
UH, AS A REMINDER, THIS IS ROTATING THROUGH THE ALPHABET FOR LABELS SO THAT THERE'S PROPOSITION X SOMEDAY.
NOW, WE'VE TALKED A LOT ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR RECOMMENDATION ALREADY.
IS THERE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION, QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? OKAY.
WHO WAS SECOND? I HEARD TWO PEOPLE.
YOU'RE GONNA GIVE IT TO THEM, I THINK.
OKAY, SO NOW COMES A A LITTLE BIT, SO SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT HARDER.
UH, IF YOU LOOK FOR YES, RECOMMENDATION ELECTIONS FOR CITIZEN INITIATED CHARTER CHANGES AND INITIATIVES HELD ON MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTION DATES AT OUR PREVIOUS MEETING, WHICH HOPEFULLY YOU RECALL, WE DECIDED TO HAVE ONE JOINT SOLE CHANGE TO THE CHARTER TO MAKE PETITIONED INITIATIVE CHANGES FOR ORDINANCE CHANGES OR FOR CHARTER CHANGES BE PUT UP ON THE SOONEST MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTION DATE.
TO SUMMARIZE, THE PRO IS HIGH TURNOUT, SO 50% TURNOUT VERSUS 15% TURNOUT.
YOU CAN'T GET CONFUSED IF YOU DON'T VOTE.
THE CON IS YOU'LL HAVE TO WAIT, YOU'LL HAVE TO WAIT.
AND SO IF YOU HAVE A BURNING ISSUE AND YOU'LL PETITION AT THE RIGHT MOMENT IN THE WINDOW, THERE'S A POSSIBILITY THAT YOU'LL BE DONE WITH YOUR PETITION AND HAVE TO WAIT A WHILE FOR YOUR HIKE DURING OUT ELECTION TO MAKE SURE THAT THE LANGUAGE WAS
[02:30:01]
PRISTINE.I EN ENLISTED MS. WEBSTER SO THAT WE WOULD HAVE THE FULL BACKING OF CITY LEGAL ONCE WE WENT TO THE CITY COUNCIL TO PRESENT OUR RECOMMENDATION.
AND I WILL POINT OUT THAT THE PLACE WHERE YOU WANT TO START READING, IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY, IS ON THE SECOND PAGE WHERE IT SAYS, IN CONSULTATION WITH CITY LAW, THE WORKING GROUP RECOMMENDS THE FOLLOWING LANGUAGE, FOUR FOUR HA THE ORDINANCE ORDERING THE ELECTION OF THIS, THAT THAT WAS CLEANED UP IN THE FINAL REPORT,
AND THEN THERE IS LANGUAGE AND THE KEY ACTION IS HAPPENING AT A TWO, IF I AM READING THIS CORRECTLY.
AND A AND THEN C AT THE NEXT AVAILABLE GENERAL MUNICIPAL ELECTION DATE THAT ALLOWS SUFFICIENT TIME TO COMPLY WITH UTTER REQUIREMENTS OF LAW.
AND SEE WHEN COUNCIL RECEIVES AN AUTHORIZED CHARTER AMENDMENT PETITION CERTIFIED BY THE CITY CLERK TO BE SUFFICIENT, THE COUNCIL SHALL SUBMIT SET PROPOSED CHARTER AMENDMENT TO VOTE OF THE QUALIFIED VOTERS OF THE CITY AT THE NEXT AVAILABLE GENERAL MUNICIPAL ELECTION DATE THAT ALLOWS SUFFICIENT TIME TO COMPLY WITH OTHER REQUIREMENTS OF LAW.
THIS IS THE ENCAPSULATION OF A VARIETY OF THREATS THAT WE HAVE HAD, AS WELL AS SOME LEGAL DISPUTES ALONG THE WAY.
AS I SAID, THIS IS, UM, THIS WAS GENERATED BY OUR TALENTED CITY LAW DEPARTMENT.
UH, IN TERMS OF ADDITIONAL CHANGES TO THIS RECOMMENDATION, I PUT THE HANDY LITTLE CHART.
SO WE'RE GETTING TO THAT MOMENT WHERE COUNSEL NEEDS TO SEE THE CHART AND THE PUBLIC NEEDS TO SEE THE CHART TO EXPLAIN OUR CHANGES.
AND IN TERMS OF, UH, THE PROPOSED BALLOT LANGUAGE, THIS ALSO CHANGED BASED ON CITY LAW'S RECOMMENDATION.
SHALL THE CITY CHARTER BE AMENDED TO PROVIDE THE CITIZEN INITIATED INITIATIVE ELECTIONS AND CITIZEN INITIATED CHARTER AMENDMENT ELECTIONS MUST BE HELD ON THE CITY'S NEXT AVAILABLE MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTION DATE THAT ALLOWS SUFFICIENT TIME TO COMPLY WITH OTHER REQUIREMENTS OF LAW.
WE CAN ACT ON THIS IF WE'RE READY, BECAUSE WE HAVE REPEATEDLY, UH, ENDORSED THE PRINCIPLE, OR WE CAN WAIT TO GET FEEDBACK ON FEBRUARY 8TH.
I GUESS MY OVERALL, I'M VERY SUPPORTIVE.
I, YOU KNOW, IT'S THE TYPE OF THING THAT I'M, I'M, MY INCLINATION IS TO SUPPORT, LET'S MAKE A MOTION.
UM, I FEEL LIKE WE HAVEN'T REALLY HEARD FROM A LOT OF PEOPLE ABOUT THE, THAT CON, WHICH IS THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL THE NEXT ELECTION.
AND SO IN, IN CASUAL CONVERSATIONS, AND NOT IN FRONT OF THIS COMMISSION THAT I'VE HAD WITH SOME PEOPLE WHO, UM, HAVE INITIATED PETITIONS AND, AND HAVE WORKED ON THESE ISSUES, THEY'VE BEEN COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.
BUT ALSO THEY HAVEN'T TOLD THAT TO THE REST OF THE COMMISSION.
AND SO I'M GONNA SUGGEST THAT PERHAPS WE WAIT UNTIL AFTER THOSE TOWN HALL OR, OR AT LEAST MORE FEEDBACK FROM THE PUBLIC IN SOME WAY.
DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY OBJECTIONS TO WAITING UNTIL THE MEETING AFTER THE TOWN HALL TO CONSIDER THIS PROPOSAL? NO.
[6. Discussion and possible action on Recall Petitions Work Group recommendations. (Commissioner Van Maanen)]
MOVING ON TO ITEM NUMBER SIX, WHICH IS DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON THE RECALL PETITIONS WORKING GROUP COMMISSIONER VAN MANUM, BACK TO YOU.ALRIGHT, UM, ONE THING THAT, SO, UM, I HAD SENT A REPORT FROM, UM, FROM, UH, DR.
ROTTING HOUSE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF HOUSTON, UM, ABOUT SORT OF GENERAL, WHAT THEY'RE CALLING BEST PRACTICES FOR RECALLS IN THE STATE OF TEXAS TO NETTE.
AND I DON'T SEE IT UPLOADED IN THE BACKUP.
UM, BUT MAYBE IF I CAN SEND IT AROUND TO LIKE B, C, C PEOPLE AFTERWARDS, WHAT WOULD BE THE BEST WAY TO GET THAT OUT TO THE COMMISSIONERS? EVERYONE.
WAS IT PART OF THE BACKUP MATERIALS? I DON'T REMEMBER SEEING POSTED ON THE WEBSITE THOUGH, AS, NO, IT'S NOT ON THE WEBSITE.
IT WAS INCLUDED IN THE EMAIL THAT IT'S INCLUDED IN THE EMAIL WITH ALL THE DOCUMENTS.
WELL THEN, SORRY THAT I, I MISSED THAT.
UM, BUT I THINK IT'D BE HELPFUL FOR PEOPLE TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT IF YOU, IF YOU SO DESIRE.
UM, BECAUSE THE, THE RANGE OF, OF RECALL, I'LL START WITH THE, THE HOT BUTTON ISSUE, WHICH IS THE THRESHOLD QUESTION.
THE RANGE OF THRESHOLDS VARIES GREATLY IN TEXAS AND IT GOES UP TO 50%, AS IN, AS IN EL PASO.
UM, THE AVERAGE, I WANNA SAY I COULD PULL IT UP, IT'S NOT WORTH THE, THE TIME RIGHT NOW, BUT, UM, THE AVERAGE I WANNA SAY IS SOMEWHERE AROUND 28% OR 30 SOMETHING PERCENT.
UM, AND SO WHAT THAT KIND OF DEMONSTRATES TO US IS THAT, LIKE, AS FAR AS THE THRESHOLD GOES, UM, WE'RE A LITTLE LOW IN AUSTIN AND INDEED THE, THE THRESHOLDS HAVE NOT BEEN CHANGED SINCE, SINCE PRE TEN ONE.
AND SO THE NUMBERS BEING CONSIDERED AT THAT TIME WHEN
[02:35:01]
THE 10%, UM, THRESHOLD WAS PUT INTO PLACE WERE THE CITYWIDE NUMBERS.AND SO IT WAS, YOU KNOW, ROUGHLY 60,000 SOMEWHERE AROUND THERE.
UM, AS OPPOSED TO THE NUMBERS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT NOW.
AND AS I WAS SAYING EARLIER, I DON'T THINK A PERCENTAGE NECESSARILY TELLS THE FULL STORY OF WHAT THAT IMPACT IS.
UM, WITH THAT SAID, THERE'S A GREAT, AS WE HAVE DISCUSSED AT LENGTH IN PREVIOUS MEETINGS, THERE'S UM, THERE'S A WIDER VARIANCE IN THE NUMBER OF QUALIFIED VOTERS PER DISTRICT THEN THERE IS IN THE, THE POPULATION PER DISTRICT.
BUT WE'RE ALSO GONNA KIND OF HAVE TO LIVE WITH THAT BECAUSE THAT'S JUST A FUNCTION OF HOW OUR DISTRICTS ARE BUILT.
UM, AND WE'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO CHANGE THAT IN THIS, IN THIS MEETING.
IT'D BE AWESOME IF WE COULD, BUT A LOSS, UM, ALL OF THAT IS TO SAY I DID NOT PRESENT A RECOMMENDATION TODAY FOR THE THRESHOLD.
UM, AND I'M NOT COMFORTABLE DOING THAT UNTIL AFTER WE HEAR MORE FROM THE PUBLIC.
UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK COMMISSIONER ALANO EARLIER MENTIONED SOME STICKER SHOCK, AND I THINK THERE'S GONNA BE SOME STICKER SHOCK IF THERE'S ANY CHANGE TO THAT THRESHOLD BECAUSE, UM, 10% SEEMS PRETTY CLEAN.
WITH THAT SAID, I THINK THE MORE IMPORTANT PART OF A RECALL RECOMMENDATION OR THE TRANSPARENCY ITEMS, AND THE REASON FOR THAT, UM, IS BECAUSE IN, SORRY, THERE'S SO MANY BACKUP ITEMS. I'M LIKE USING THE ENTIRE TABLE TODAY, JUST TRYING TO FIND THE PARTICULAR ONES THAT I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT.
I'M GONNA HAVE TO DO IT FROM MEMORY 'CAUSE THEY'VE DISAPPEARED.
UM, SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS, I THINK IT'S USEFUL FOR US TO FRAME THIS IN TERMS OF THE REPRESENTATION, THE COMMUNITY CENTERED REPRESENTATION THAT WE GET.
I HAVE IT SOMEWHERE, BUT THANK YOU
SO WE, AS A CITY, WE DECIDED THAT WE WANTED SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS BECAUSE IT WOULD PROVIDE BETTER REPRESENTATION TO AUSTINITES.
WE COULD DECIDE IN OUR COMMUNITY WHO REPRESENTS US ON COUNCIL.
AND I THINK THAT THE, THE PROBLEM THAT I'M SEEING, AND I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE SEEING IN THE RECALL RECOMMENDATIONS IS THAT IT UNDER, OR, SORRY, IN THE CURRENT RECALL RULES IS THAT THOSE CURRENT RECALL RULES UNDERMINE THE TEN ONE SYSTEM.
SO I'VE HEARD PEOPLE SUGGEST THAT, YOU KNOW, WELL, WHAT'S THE PROBLEM? BECAUSE RECALLS HAVEN'T BEEN SUCCESSFUL RECENTLY IN AUSTIN.
WELL, IF YOU LOOK AT THE RECALL EFFORTS THAT WE'VE HEARD OF IN AUSTIN RECENTLY, WE HAVE RECALL EFFORTS THAT ARE BACKED BY CORPORATIONS THAT ARE LOCATED IN CALIFORNIA, NOT AUSTIN RESIDENTS.
YOU HAVE, UM, YOU KNOW, VARIOUS, VARIOUS RUMORS OR SCUTTLE, BUT ABOUT, UM, ABOUT, YOU KNOW, ONE OR TWO PEOPLE OR A SMALL ORGANIZATION IN ONE COUNCIL DISTRICT ATTEMPTING TO RECALL COUNCIL MEMBERS THAT DO NOT REPRESENT THEM.
SO ALL OF THESE CASES THAT WE'VE HEARD IN RECENT MEMORY ARE PEOPLE TRYING TO RECALL SOMEONE ELSE'S COUNCIL MEMBER.
AND THAT'S NOT WHAT SINGLE MEMBER DISTRICTS ARE, ARE SUPPOSED TO RESULT IN.
WHETHER THOSE ARE SUCCESSFUL OR NOT, I THINK THAT THAT'S A PROBLEM AND THAT IS WHAT WE WANT TO ADDRESS WITH THIS.
SO THE FIRST OF THE TWO, UM, THE FIRST OF THE TWO BACKUP ITEMS IS, IT'LL LOOK FAMILIAR TO YOU.
IT'S VERY SIMILAR TO THE, THE TRANSPARENCY ITEM FROM ITEM FOUR.
AND IT'S JUST SORT OF REDLINED BECAUSE I THINK FOR CONVENIENCE SAKE, IF WE COULD TALK ABOUT A LOT OF THESE THINGS TOGETHER IN THE SAME CONVERSATION, THAT WOULD BE REALLY HELPFUL SINCE SO MANY OF THESE THINGS ARE, ARE VERY SIMILAR, UM, PARTICULARLY THE NOTICE OF INTENT, WHICH I THINK WE SHOULD ABSOLUTELY INSTITUTE FOR RECALLS AS WELL.
THERE WOULD BE A FEW SLIGHT CHANGES TO THAT LANGUAGE.
SO WE WOULD HAVE TO REQUIRE, UM, NOT ONLY WOULD THE, THE PEOPLE PRESENTING THAT NOTICE OF INTENT BE RESIDENTS OF AUSTIN, THEY WOULD HAVE TO BE RESIDENTS OF THE COUNCIL DISTRICT IF THEY'RE TRYING TO RECALL A COUNCIL MEMBER.
UM, THERE ARE A FEW OTHER THINGS.
SO WE HAVE ON THE NOTICE OF INTENT, MAN, I SHOULD HAVE BROUGHT MY OWN COPIES.
SO REQUIRING THAT THE, THE PEOPLE REQUIRING THAT THE PETITIONERS BE FROM THE, THE COUNCIL DISTRICT, UM, THAT THEY WANT TO RECALL THE COUNCIL MEMBER.
AND I FEEL LIKE THAT'S A, THAT'S A, THAT'S EASY, RIGHT? I I THINK THAT THAT JUST INTUITIVELY MAKES SENSE IN TERMS OF REPRESENTATION.
WE ALL ACCEPT THAT, THAT WE SHOULD BE THE ONES CHOOSING WHO OUR REPRESENTATIVES ARE, AND WE SHOULD NOT HAVE A SYSTEM THAT ALLOWS SOMEONE ELSE TO REMOVE OUR REPRESENTATIVES, UM, OR EVEN ATTEMPT TO DO THAT IN, IN MY OPINION.
I THINK THAT THAT'S A PROBLEM.
UM, WE DO IN THE NOTICE INTENT FOR THE, THE REST OF THE KINDS OF PETITIONS, UM, SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, IF A CAMPAIGN FINANCE FILER ID IS AVAILABLE, THEN THAT SHOULD BE INCLUDED ON THE NOTICE OF INTENT.
JUST, JUST MAKE IT EASIER AND MORE TRANSPARENT.
SO IF PEOPLE CAN LOOK UP THOSE REPORTS AND THAT, THAT INFORMATION, UM, THIS WOULD REQUIRE THAT IF AN ORGANIZATION
[02:40:01]
OR YOU KNOW, AN ENTITY OR A PERSON HAS NOT ALREADY FILED A CAMPAIGN TREASURER APPOINTMENT AND GOTTEN THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE FILER ID WITH THE CITY OF AUSTIN, THAT THEY WOULD BE REQUIRED TO DO THAT FOR, UM, FOR RECALL PETITIONS.UM, AND THEN I THINK THE OTHER, REALLY, THE OTHER, UM, ALL THE OTHER RED LINES ARE REALLY JUST CLEANUP.
I THINK, UNLESS I'M MISSING SOMETHING IN HERE AND FORGETTING ABOUT IT, UM, IT WOULD JUST ADD AN ADDITIONAL THING.
UM, AN ADDITIONAL THING TOO, YOU KNOW, WE'D BE AMENDING A DIFFERENT SECTION OF THE CHARTER.
UM, BUT I ALSO THINK THAT IF WE COMBINE THESE, IT'S GONNA MAKE DISCUSSING THEM A WHOLE LOT EASIER BECAUSE THEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT 'EM AS ONE, AS ONE.
THERE ARE SOME SMALL DIFFERENCES, BUT I DID WANNA PRESENT THAT SUGGESTION.
UM, IF WE WERE GOING TO APPROVE EITHER OF THOSE TONIGHT, THEN I WOULD MAKE A MOTION FOR TO AMEND ESSENTIALLY THE, THE ITEM FOUR RECOMMENDATION.
UM, BUT I WOULD LIKE FEEDBACK TO, TO SEE IF PEOPLE ARE THINKING, IF PEOPLE AGREE WITH THAT.
UM, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I CAN DRAFT SOMETHING FOR THE NEXT MEETING OR THE MEETING AFTER THAT DOES COMBINE THOSE, AND THEN THAT COULD BE A RECOMMENDATION.
BUT BECAUSE THESE ARE CONSIDERED SEPARATE ITEMS AS WE'RE DISCUSSING THEM RIGHT NOW, I WANNA PROCEDURALLY MAKE SURE THAT THAT MAKES SENSE TO PEOPLE AND NOT SORT OF TRY TO IMPOSE A UNION OF THESE THINGS, THAT IF THERE'S OPPOSITION TO THAT, I THINK IT MAKES SENSE TO PRESENT A CONSOLIDATED RECOMMENDATION ON THE TRANSPARENCY ITEMS. UM, AND THEN, UH, GOING BACK TO THE SIGNATURE THRESHOLD, YOU KNOW, YOUR POINT ABOUT THIS BEING KIND OF THE, THE CARRYOVER FROM TEN ONE I THINK IS AN IMPORTANT POINT, AND THAT IS MY RECOLLECTION OF WHY THIS WAS NOT A CONTROVERSIAL ITEM FOR THE 2018 CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION.
I BELIEVE IT PASSED UNANIMOUSLY, AND IT WAS BECAUSE PRIOR TO TEN ONE, IT WAS THE 10% SIGNATURE THRESHOLD, BUT IT WAS 10% CITYWIDE TO RECALL.
IT WAS ONLY AFTER TEN ONE THAT THE 10% GOT APPLIED TO DISTRICTS.
AND SO FOR THAT REASON, NO ONE WAS UNCOMFORTABLE AND I BELIEVE WE PROPOSED IT INCREASED TO 15%.
UM, NO ONE WAS UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE SIGNATURE THRESHOLD BEING INCREASED ON RECALL PETITIONS.
UM, SO I JUST WANTED TO OFFER THAT CONTEXT AS WELL TO THE EXTENT THAT IT'S HELPFUL TO ANYONE'S DECISION MAKING.
UM, ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON THIS PROPOSAL? COMMISSIONER GREENBERG? I GUESS I JUST WONDER WHY, UH, CAMPAIGN FINANCE ID FOR THIS, BUT NOT FOR THE INITIATIVE AND CHARTER AMENDMENT PETITIONS.
I MEAN, IT, IT'S, THIS IS A SMALLER NUMBER OF SIGNATURES THAT ARE GOING TO BE REQUIRED.
MAYBE YOU CAN DO IT WITH THE GRASSROOTS AND NOT RAISE MONEY.
UM, IF YOU DON'T RAISE MONEY, IS DOES, LIKE, IS THERE, DO YOU STILL HAVE, YOU'RE SAYING YOU STILL HAVE TO FILE THE ARGUMENT, THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE APPOINTMENT OF A TREASURER EVEN IF YOU DON'T HAVE A TREASURY? LIKE WHAT, HOW DOES, I'M JUST, I'M UNCLEAR ABOUT THAT.
THE ARGUMENT LEADS INTO THE SECOND RECOMMENDATION, UM, WHICH IS THE REQUIREMENT THAT THEY, THAT THEY DISCLOSE CONTRIBUTIONS, THAT THEY DISCLOSE EXPENDITURES, THAT THEY DO FILE REPORTS.
SO NOT JUST HAVING THAT TREASURER APPOINTMENT.
UM, I GUESS IT MAKES MORE SENSE IF WE TALK ABOUT THOSE TOGETHER A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE OF THAT REASON.
UM, AND THEN IF, SHOULD WE STOP HERE FOR MORE QUESTIONS ON THAT OR SHOULD I GO RIGHT INTO, BUT IF THERE ARE NO, UM, CONTRIBUTIONS AND YOU CAN FILE A CAMPAIGN TREASURER APPOINTMENT WITHOUT SPENDING MONEY AND WITHOUT INTENDING TO SPEND MONEY, I THINK IT'S A TRANSPARENCY ITEM TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE, THAT.
AND I WOULD LIKE IT ON THE, UM, THE OTHER PETITIONS AS WELL.
LIKE YOU SAID, CONSISTENCY OF THAT RECOMMENDATION.
I DON'T REALLY SEE, LET'S DO IT.
I MEAN THAT'S ALWAYS, WHO'S PAYING FOR THIS? THAT'S PART OF THE TRANSPARENCY THAT I THINK THE PUBLIC WANTS.
I THOUGHTS? YES, CAROLINE? HI, THIS IS CAROLINE AGAIN.
OH, AND, AND IT MAY NOT ALLEVIATE ANY CONCERNS YOU JUST EXPRESSED, BUT, UM, MOST PETITION DRIVES ARE BACKED BY A POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE.
AND THE POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEES ARE ALREADY REQUIRED TO, TO MAKE CAMPAIGN FINANCE REPORTS TO SUBMIT KIND CAMPAIGN FINANCE REPORTS.
SO YOU KNOW THAT, WHICH IS NOT TO SAY THAT YOU COULDN'T MAYBE GO OVER AND ABOVE OR ADD OTHER REQUIREMENTS THAT IS POSSIBLE.
I KNOW YOU'RE, YOU'RE SPECIFICALLY TALKING ABOUT RECALL ELECTIONS FOR YOUR WORKING GROUP.
UM, LIKE IF YOU LOOK AT, UH, I WAS JUST LOOKING AT CITY OF DALLAS'S CHARTER AND THEY HAVE CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS SIMILAR TO THAT FOR THEIR RECALL ELECTION.
AND I DIDN'T LOOK UP WHAT THEY HAVE FOR INITIATIVE AND, AND REFERENDUM YET JUST 'CAUSE I WAS LOOKING AT THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE.
BUT, SO THERE ARE SOME FINANCIAL REQUIRES, BUT IT'S, UH, REQUIREMENTS, BUT IT'S ALSO OKAY TO
[02:45:01]
MAYBE ADD OR, OR FLESH THOSE OUT A LITTLE BIT.CAROLINE, ANY OTHER COMMENTS? MAYBE THAT'S A GOOD SEGUE TO TALK ABOUT THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE PROPOSAL BECAUSE, UM, MY, I WASN'T AS SPECIFIC IN THAT PROPOSAL AND THE REASON WAS BECAUSE I WASN'T SURE.
UM, AND I WANTED TO TALK TO CAROLINE IN THIS MEETING, UM, ABOUT ANY, ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF, OF RESTRICTING AND LIMITING THE CONTRIBUTIONS OF, UM, OF PACS BECAUSE THEY, MOST OF THE TIME THEY'RE PACS.
UM, AND I UNDERSTAND IN CERTAIN OTHER CONTEXTS, BUT MAYBE NOT FOR THE CITY, FOR LIKE CITY LEVEL CAMPAIGN FINANCE, UM, RESTRICTING HOW MANY, LIKE THE, THE AMOUNT THAT A PACK COULD RECEIVE IN A CONTRIBUTION RESTRICTING SOME OF THEIR SPENDING AND RESTRICTING WHO COULD DONATE TO THAT PACK WOULD PRESENT SOME LEGAL QUESTIONS.
UM, I'M JUST NOT SURE ABOUT IT IN THIS CONTEXT IN PARTICULAR.
UM, BEFORE WE ANSWER THE QUESTION, LET ME JUST BRIEFLY STATE WHAT THAT RECOMMENDATION IS.
AND THAT RECOMMENDATION IS A, NOT ONLY DO YOU HAVE TO FILE A CAMPAIGN TREASURER APPOINTMENT, BUT YOU HAVE TO, UM, YOU KNOW, SUBMIT THOSE REPORTS REGARDLESS WHETHER YOU WERE A PAC BEFORE OR NOT.
UM, YOU MUST NOW PROBABLY MOST LIKELY IT WOULD RESULT IN BECOMING A GPAC, A GENERAL PURPOSE PACK, WHICH IS JUST A SIMPLE, YOU FILE GENERALLY TWICE A YEAR IF YOU'RE INVOLVED IN ELECTION STUFF.
THERE'S SOME ADDITIONAL FILING FOR THAT.
UM, ALTHOUGH MAYBE CAROLINE CAN CLARIFY THAT TOO BECAUSE, UM, THE CITY'S CAMPAIGN FINANCE REPORTING RULES ARE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN LIKE THE STATE OR FEDERAL, FOR EXAMPLE.
UM, AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE LOWER LIMITS AND LOWER RULES IN OR LOWER LIMITS AND MORE RULES REALLY IN THE CITY OF AUSTIN.
SO I THINK SOME CLARIFICATION ON THAT MIGHT HELP.
BUT THE OTHER HALF THE MEAT OF THAT RECOMMENDATION IS THAT, UM, THE PETITIONERS OF A RECALL ELECTION, OR SORRY, THE PETITIONERS OF A RECALL TO PROPOSE A RECALL FOR THE MAYOR OR A COUNCIL MEMBER, WOULD THEN BE REQUIRED TO COMPLY WITH THE SAME CAMPAIGN FINANCE LIMITATIONS AS A CANDIDATE FOR MAYOR COUNCIL OR AN OFFICE HOLDER OF ONE OF THOSE SEATS.
UM, WHICH INCLUDES CER LIKE LIMITS ON INDIVIDUAL CONTRIBUTIONS, LIMITS ON HOW MUCH IN CONTRIBUTIONS YOU CAN RECEIVE FROM OUTSIDE THE CITY OF AUSTIN.
UM, AND LIMITS ON, UH, POLITICAL COMMITTEE CONTRIBUTIONS.
THOSE ARE THE, THERE'S SOME DETAILS BEYOND THAT, BUT THAT'S KIND OF, THOSE ARE THE BIG ONES.
IF CAROLINE, IF YOU COULD JUST MAYBE HIT THE HIGH POINTS OF, YOU KNOW, FIRST MY QUESTION, ARE WE ALLOWED TO, TO LIMIT THE, THE CONTRIBUTIONS THAT A PAC CAN RECEIVE AT THE CITY LEVEL? AND SECONDLY, ARE THERE ANY OTHER FLAGS THAT YOU WANNA IDENTIFY FOR US WITH THAT? SO, UM, I RAISED THAT QUESTION WITH A COUPLE OF MY COLLEAGUES AND I HAVEN'T GOTTEN A RESPONSE BACK YET.
UM, CURRENTLY IN THE CITY CHARTER OR CITY CODE AND IN, UM, THE ELECTION CODE OR STATE LAW, THERE ARE NO LIMITATIONS, CONTRIBUTION LIMITATIONS FOR POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEES EXCEPT FOR, FOR OUT OF STATE AND FOR CASH DONATIONS.
UM, I COULDN'T FIND ANYTHING THAT WOULD PROHIBIT US OR YOU ALL, OR, YOU KNOW, THE VOTERS FROM ADDING THAT TO THE CHARTER.
UM, BUT I DON'T WANNA TELL YOU A HUNDRED PERCENT UNTIL I GET HEAR BACK FROM SOME COLLEAGUES WHO HAVE A LITTLE MORE KNOWLEDGE OF THAT PARTICULAR AREA.
BUT I, I THINK YOU COULD, BUT I JUST, I JUST CAN'T CONFIRM A HUNDRED PERCENT.
SO THE WAY THAT THE RECOMMENDATION IS WRITTEN, UM, YOU KNOW, I'M MAKING BOTH OF THOSE SUGGESTIONS THAT THEY BE REQUIRED TO FILE, THEY BE REQUIRED TO REPORT, UM, JUST, YOU KNOW, AND DISCLOSE THE CONTRIBUTIONS AND THE EXPENDITURES, BUT ALSO THEY BE REQUIRED TO ABIDE BY THE SAME CITY RULES ABOUT IN THE CHARTER, ABOUT, UM, ABOUT CONTRIBUTIONS, LIMITS ON THOSE CONTRIBUTIONS.
UM, I, I DO THINK IT'S IMPORTANT IN THE EVENTUAL LANGUAGE OF THAT RECOMMENDATION THAT WE HAVE A FAVORABILITY CLAUSE BECAUSE I, THERE ARE LEGAL QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT PACS CAN BE REQUIRED TO, TO, YOU KNOW, NOT ACCEPT CONTRIBUTIONS OVER $300 FROM AN INDIVIDUAL, FOR EXAMPLE.
UM, OR I THINK IT'S LIKE FOUR 50 NOW OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
BUT, UM, BUT ANYWAY, BUT I THINK AS LONG AS THERE IS THE REPORTING, THAT'S AN IMPORTANT TOOL IN ITSELF AND I WOULDN'T WANNA LOSE THAT TO, TO A CHALLENGE ABOUT THE OTHER PART OF IT.
SO I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT CLEAR.
UM, WITH THAT SAID, I DON'T THINK WE'VE GONE INTO DEPTH IN DISCUSSING THIS BEFORE AT A PREVIOUS MEETING.
AND SO I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FEEDBACK IF PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO OFFER THAT.
DOES ANYONE HAVE COMMENTS OR FEEDBACK TO OFFER? DO WE WANNA MULL IT OVER? MAYBE IT'S GOOD SILENCE, I'M NOT HEARING ANYTHING.
WELL, USUALLY WHEN THERE'S COMMENTS THEY'RE GOING TO BE CRITICAL, SO PERHAPS SILENCE IS GOOD IN THIS SITUATION.
COMMISSIONER MCGOVERN? NO, I THOUGHT ABOUT IT, BUT THEN I LOOKED AT MY WATCH.
ALRIGHT, ON THAT NOTE, UM, ANY
[02:50:01]
OTHERUH, WE HAVE ALREADY COVERED ITEM NUMBER SEVEN AND I, UH, ON ITEM NUMBER
[8. Discussion and possible action of future meetings and meeting location. ]
EIGHT, UH, WE HAVE OUR NEXT MEETING IS GONNA BE OUR TOWN HALL MEETING ON FEBRUARY 8TH.UM, NEXT MEETING AFTER THAT WILL BE THE 15TH.
SO FAR, UH, UNLESS I HEAR OTHERWISE, UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE ARE ON SCHEDULE, UM, HOPEFULLY TO HAVE A FINAL REPORT BY OUR MARCH MEETING.
UM, BUT IF WE THINK OTHERWISE, UM, AT OUR NEXT COUPLE OF MEETINGS WE CAN ALWAYS ADD ADDITIONAL TIMES TO THE CALENDAR.
UM, ITEM NUMBER NINE, ARE THERE ANY FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS,
[FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
TOPICS OR PRESENTATIONS THAT THE COMMISSIONERS WOULD LIKE TO REQUEST? SEEING NO REQUESTS, COMMISSIONER ALANO, I PROVIDED A RE, UH, RESOLUTION THAT THE URBAN TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION MAY OR MAY NOT CONSIDER.IT'S A PART OF A ITEM, A TOPIC THAT I'VE RAISED BEFORE, WHICH HAS TO DO WITH, UH, AUSTIN POTENTIALLY COPYING HOUSTON'S PATH OF CREATING REQUIREMENTS AROUND HOW WE NEGOTIATE WITH OUR METROPOLITAN PLANNING ORGANIZATION AROUND OUR REPRESENTATION OF THAT BODY.
I ONLY INCLUDE IT, SO AS A HEADS UP OF SOMETHING THAT MIGHT COME TO US AT, UH, THE LAST SECOND SO THAT YOU ARE AWARE, BUT I WOULD NOT ANTICIPATE US HAVING TO TAKE ACTION GIVEN JUST HOW LATE IN OUR PROCESSES MAY BE COMING, BUT I DON'T WANT YOU TO BE SURPRISED IF IT COMES UP.
COMMISSIONER, ANY OTHER AGENDA ITEMS? PRESENTATIONS? NO.
DO I HEAR A MOTION TO ADJOURN? I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A, A MORE MOTION IF THAT'S OKAY TO ADJOURN.
UH, I WOULD LIKE TO, UH, MAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN AN HONOR OF THE LATE HARRIET MURPHY WHO DIED ON JANUARY THE 17TH.
SHE WAS, UM, ALSO MUNICIPAL COURT JUDGE FROM 1973 TO 1993.
UH, SHE IS THE FIRST AFRICAN AMERICAN FEMALE APPOINTED TO A FULL JUDGE SHIFT, A FULL-TIME JUDGE SHIFT IN THE STATE OF TEXAS.
AND, UM, I'VE KNOWN HER OFF AND ON ABOUT 40 YEARS AND HAD AN HONOR TO BE SWORN IN TO THE BAR BY HER IN 2007.
AND, UH, SHE SERVED THE CITY QUITE WELL, BOTH AT THE COURT AND IN THE PUBLIC REALM.
THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH FOR ALL YOUR WORK.