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[CALL TO ORDER]

[00:00:03]

AND WE HAVE QUORUM.

SO WE WILL CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER.

UH, THE FIRST ITEM

[PUBLIC COMMUNICATION: GENERAL]

THAT WE HAVE IS PUBLIC COMMUNICATION.

UM, MADAME CLERK, DO WE HAVE ANYONE SIGNED UP? UM, YES WE DO.

WE'LL START WITH VIRTUAL SPEAKERS.

WE'VE GOT, UH, BOBBY LAVINSKY.

YOU'LL GET THREE MINUTES.

MR. LAVINSKY, THE FLOOR IS YOURS.

WHENEVER YOU'RE READY.

THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER.

THIS IS, UH, BOBBY LAVINSKY, UM, WITH SABRE SPRING ALLIANCE.

UH, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE ON THIS IMPORTANT COMMISSION.

UM, I ORIGINALLY PLANNED TO MAKE SOME BRIEF COMMENTS IN SUPPORT OF SOME RECOMMENDATIONS THAT ARE LIKELY GONNA BE COMING OUT OF THE URBAN TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION.

THAT VOTE HASN'T BEEN TAKEN YET, SO I'LL RESERVE COMMENT ON THAT.

BUT, UM, LIKELY WOULD SUPPORT THE ACTIONS COMING FROM THAT COMMISSION.

UM, IN THE MEANTIME, I WANNA VOICE SOME, UH, LIVED EXPERIENCES WITH REGARD TO RAISING THE SIGNATURE THRESHOLD FOR THE RESIDENT INITIATED PETITIONS.

RAISING THE SIGNATURE THRESHOLD FOR RESIDENT INITIATED ORDINANCES AND RECALLS WEAKENS IMPORTANT DEMOCRACY CHECKS ON POWER.

THE CHARTER ALREADY SAFEGUARDS AGAINST THESE PROVISIONS FROM BEING ABUSED BY PLACING TIME BARRIERS BETWEEN THE ELECTIONS.

ANYONE WHO THINKS IT'S EASY TO GATHER 20,000 SIGNATURES HAS LIKELY NOT BEEN PART OF THOSE EFFORTS BEFORE.

AND THE FREQUENCY WITH WHICH RECALLS HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN RECENT HISTORY, ESPECIALLY DURING THE TEN ONE ERA, ZERO TIMES, IS AN INDICATION OF HOW EASY IT'S TO ONE OF THOSE.

I WOULD CHALLENGE THE PROPONENTS OF RAISING THOSE THRESHOLDS THAT IF THEY THINK IT'S SO EASY TO GET 20,000 SIGNATURES, PROVE IT BY DOING IT YOURSELVES, BY GETTING THIS PROPOSAL ON THE BALLOT BY GETTING 20,000 SIGNATURES FROM AUSTINITE, PUT FORWARD THE SAME EFFORT.

AND, UM, AND THE TIME AND THE ENERGY THAT AS THE ADVOCATES HAVE, UH, HAVE PUT INTO RECENT REFORMS THAT HAVE BEEN REALLY IMPORTANT FOR AUSTIN'S HISTORY AND HOW AUSTIN IS TODAY, LIKE TEN ONE.

AND THE SOS ORDINANCE.

DIRECT DEMOCRACY IS A RARE TOOL, BUT AN IMPORTANT ONE, PLEASE RESERVE THE POWER FOR THE PEOPLE.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

THE NEXT SPEAKER IS LINDA CURTIS, AND IF SHE IS ON, AND IF DEBBIE RUSSELL IS ON, DEBBIE WOULD LIKE TO DONATE HER TIME.

YES.

SO MS. CURTIS WILL GET SIX MINUTES.

THANK YOU MS. MS. CURTIS.

THE FLOOR IS YOURS WHEN YOU'RE READY.

THANK YOU.

HELLO, COMMISSIONERS.

MY NAME IS LINDA CURTIS.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TO AUSTIN.

AND I WANT TO CONGRATULATE, UH, MR. LAVINSKY ON HIS VERY, UH, INTELLIGENT COMMENTS.

I APPRECIATE HIM.

UH, I'M A FOUNDER OF THE LEAGUE OF INDEPENDENT VOTERS OF TEXAS, A NONPARTISAN NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION DEDICATED TO FOSTERING ELECTORAL COMPETITION AND CITIZENS PETITIONS.

I LIVE IN BASTROP.

WHEN I LIVED IN AUSTIN IN 1995, I LED THE PETITION DRIVE FOR A REFERENDUM TO STOP THE CITY'S PLAN TO SPEND $20 MILLION ON A BASEBALL STADIUM WITHOUT A PUBLIC VOTE.

IN 1997, I LED THE DRIVE FOR A CITY CHARTER AMENDMENT FOR CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM BY AUSTINITES FOR A LITTLE LESS CORRUPTION.

AND 20 2007, I LED THE DRIVE FOR AN INITIATIVE TO STOP THE DOMAIN LUXURY SHOPPING MALL SUBSIDIES.

AND IN 2012, I LED THE CHARTER AMENDMENT PETITION FOR THE TEN ONE PLAN FOR GEOGRAPHIC REPRESENTATION AND THE INDEPENDENT REDISTRICTING COMMISSION.

WE LIKE SOME OF YOUR PROPOSALS AND APPRECIATE YOUR EFFORTS.

UM, TO US, THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE, HOWEVER, IS THE DENIAL OF THE RIGHT TO REFERENDUM TO ALLOW CITIZENS OF VOTE TO REVERSE COUNCIL DECISION.

YOU MAY KNOW THAT PREVIOUS CHARTER REVISION EFFORTS HAVE TRIED TO CLOSE THE LOOPHOLE FOR STOPPING REFERENDUM.

UNDER KIRK WATSON'S FIRST TERM, THE COUNCIL REALIZED THAT THE WAY TO STOP ANY REFERENDUMS WAS TO SIMPLY MAKE ALL ORDINANCES IMMEDIATELY EFFECTIVE.

THIS CLOSED THE WINDOW FOR PETITIONING BY VIRTUE OF SOME LANGUAGE THAT'S STILL IN THE CHARTER.

THE LAST TIME THERE WAS A REFERENDUM WAS THE 1995, UH, DOE AFFECTIONATELY CALLED THE EMERGENCY BASEBALL STADIUM.

THIS LANGUAGE NEEDS TO BE REMOVED FROM THE CHARTER BECAUSE IT'S MY OPINION THAT THE RIGHT TO REFERENDUM IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU CAN DO TO ALLOW CITIZENS THEIR MOST IMPORTANT TOOL BESIDES VOTING TO KEEP THE COUNCIL WORKING FOR THEM AND LESS FOR AUSTIN'S EVER VORACIOUS GROWTH MACHINE RAISING THE 10% PETITION REQUIREMENT FOR RECALL, THAT IS A NORM IN TEXAS, 10% ACCORDING TO THE TEXAS MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, IF YOU RAISE IT TO 35% TOGETHER WITH

[00:05:01]

DISTRICT REQUIREMENTS.

THIS WILL, UH, IN MY OPINION, RENDER RECALL DOA IN AUSTIN.

I HAVE A FEELING THAT'S NOT REALLY, UH, WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO THERE.

UM, BOTTOM LINE IS SINCE NOBODY'S BEEN RECALLED IN ANY MEMORY OF MINE, AND I'VE BEEN AROUND A LONG TIME, I, I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE PROBLEM REALLY IS.

ALSO, MOVING MEASURES TO BE HELD ONLY IN NOVEMBER CAN DO BE ANOTHER OBSTACLE TO CITIZENS' PARTICIPATION BECAUSE MEASURES CAN GET LOST IN A SEA OF CANDIDATES FOR PUBLIC OFFICE ON THE, UH, BALLOT IN NOVEMBER.

LAST THING I WANNA SAY IS I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU WANT TO PRESCRIBE A FORM, BUT I DON'T SUPPORT USING A PRESCRIBED FORM.

UH, ONLY THAT YOU MAKE PLAIN THE REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE SET, SET OUT IN STATE LAW.

THE STATE DOESN'T REQUIRE A PETITION FORM FOR MASSIVE PETITIONS FOR CANDIDATES, UH, AND PARTIES.

BUT IF YOU FIND YOUR, IT'S REALLY NECESSARY, MAKE SURE THAT YOU ADD A FIELD FOR PHONE AND EMAIL THAT IS OPTIONAL.

THIS IS THE INTENT HERE, IS TO MAKE PETITIONS FRIENDLY TO VOLUNTEER DRIVES.

THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR SERVICE AND THE OPPORTUNITY.

THANK YOU, MS. CURTIS.

THE NEXT SPEAKER IS LISA CHANG, AND SHE IS ACTUALLY SPEAKING ON ITEM NUMBER SEVEN.

MS. CHANG, THE FLOOR IS YOURS.

HI, MY NAME'S LISA CHANG AND I'M ON THE BOARD OF THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS AUSTIN AREA.

AND, UM, AFTER REVIEWING THE MEETING MINUTES OF PAST, UM, MEETINGS, WE ARE JUST CURIOUS WHO WOULD BE SITTING ON THE WORK GROUPS.

AND, UM, I'M HERE TO JUST, UH, MOSTLY LISTEN TO MY TONIGHT.

SO THANK YOU.

UH, THANK YOU MS. CHANG.

AND WE WILL, UM, WE CAN REITERATE THE, UH, MEMBERS OF THE WORK GROUPS DURING OUR MEETING.

NOW WE'LL GO TO IN-PERSON SPEAKERS, UM, WITH JOE RIDDLE.

WELCOME BACK.

OH, UH, GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS.

I'M JOE RIDDELL.

I'M HERE.

JUST AS A INTERESTED CITIZEN.

UH, I GOT A FEW POINTS TO MAKE, UH, SINCE THE LAST MEETING I DID, UH, TAKE A LOOK AT THE SURVEY RESULTS.

THE, THE, THE PROVIDED THE DETAILS.

AND, UH, TWO THINGS, UH, WERE REALLY APPARENT.

PEOPLE ARE FOR TRANSPARENCY, AND THEY ARE AGAINST, UH, MAKING IT HARDER FOR PETITIONS TO, TO BE, UH, CERTIFIED AND, AND THEY'RE AGAINST DELAYING VOTES.

UM, AND I DID, UH, SEND Y'ALL AN EMAIL ABOUT A PARTICULAR PROPOSAL, UH, THAT'S IN THERE FOR THE RECALL, UH, RELATED TO THE RECALL OF THE MAYOR.

UH, IT WOULD REQUIRE, WELL, BY THE WAY, UH, ACCORDING TO THE CHART, THERE WERE NOT QUITE 600,000, UH, QUALIFIED VOTERS TO VOTE FOR MAYOR.

SO YOU'D NEED TO 10%, YOU'D NEED 60,000, UH, SIGNATURES.

AND, BUT THEN THERE'D BE A FURTHER REQUIREMENT THAT 5% OF THE COLLECTED SIGNATURES WOULD HAVE TO COME FROM EACH COUNCIL DISTRICT.

UM, THAT'S GONNA BE A VERY UNWORKABLE THING.

UH, IT, IT MEANS YOU'VE GOTTA KEEP TRACK OF WHERE EACH DISTRICT, UH, WHERE, WHERE THE SIGN, THE PEOPLE THAT SIGN THOSE, WHERE THEY'RE FROM, AND IT'S GONNA BE A MOVING TARGET.

'CAUSE AS SOON AS YOU GET YOUR 60,000 AND YOU START GETTING IN MORE SIGNATURES, THEN FOR EVERY THOUSAND SIGNATURES YOU GET FI YOU GOTTA FIND 5% MORE OR 50 MORE FROM EACH OF THE 10 DISTRICTS.

SO THAT'S GONNA BE A REAL HEADACHE, JUST FIRST OF ALL, IN KNOWING WHAT YOU HAVE AND COLLECTING THEM.

BUT THEN WHEN IT'S TIME FOR THE CLERK TO, TO CERTIFY THESE, THE SAMPLING HAS GOTTA BE MUCH MORE SOPHISTICATED.

IT'S NOT JUST LOOKING AT, UH, 60 OR 70,000 SIGNATURES.

IT'S YOU GOTTA, YOU GOTTA HAVE GOOD ENOUGH SAMPLING TO FIND OUT FOR EACH OF THOSE 10 DISTRICTS IF YOU'VE GOT THE THRESHOLD.

AND, UH, ANYWAY, I THINK IT'S JUST A BAD IDEA.

THE, THE OTHER THING IS WHAT, BY REQUIRING THAT SOME OF THE DISTRICTS HAVE TO, YOU HAVE TO GET A WHOLE BUNCH OF, UH, MORE SIGNATURES THAN OTHER, UH, BY PERCENTAGE.

SO FOR EXAMPLE, IF THERE WERE 60,000 VALID SIGNATURES, UH, THE DIS UH, VOTERS IN, UH, DISTRICT NINE, YOU'D ONLY NEED 4% OF THEIR, OF THEIR SIGNATURES IN RELATION TO THE DISTRICT.

BUT FOR, UH, DISTRICT FOUR, YOU NEED 7.85% OF THE SIGNATURES OF THE PEOPLE IN, IN THAT DISTRICT.

SO IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME THE WAY IT WORKS.

UM, A COUPLE OTHER THINGS.

UM, I, I KNOW YOU'RE GONNA BE TALKING ABOUT OUTREACH AND PUBLIC HEARINGS.

I'M, I'M SORRY THAT YOU DIDN'T EARLY ON HAVE SOME KIND OF LIKE PUBLIC HEARING TO INVITE PEOPLE TO TELL YOU WHAT THEY THOUGHT NEEDS TO BE DONE WITH THE CHARTER.

IT IS KIND OF COMING AT THE TAIL END OF YOUR 6,365

[00:10:01]

DAY TERMS, WHICH I HOPE YOU WOULD FEEL, UM, NOT AFRAID TO TELL THE COUNCIL.

WELL, WE'RE NOT READY 'CAUSE WE STILL GOT DEBATES AND THINGS ANYWAY, UM, AT THE PUBLIC HEARING, I THINK IT'S GONNA BE IMPORTANT TO EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM.

YOU KNOW, IF YOU READ THE ORDINANCE THAT THE COUNCIL PASSED, IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE THEY'RE JUST TELLING YOU TO COME UP WITH THESE IDEAS.

AND I KIND OF RESENT THAT.

I MEAN, I, IT'S, IT'S GOOD FOR YOU TO LOOK INTO SOMETHING, BUT, UM, THEY STATE THESE IN A WAY TO KIND OF LIKE LIMIT ON CITIZEN INITIATED CHANGES TO THE CHARTER TO NOVEMBER ELECTIONS.

WELL, THAT ONE IN PARTICULAR, IT MIGHT MEAN IT'S GONNA BE FOUR YEARS, UH, BETWEEN CHARTER AMENDMENTS AND YOU COME UP WITH AN IDEA AFTER, WELL, LIKE SUPPOSE WE AMEND THEM IND THIS, UH, COMING ELECTION.

IT'LL BE FOUR YEARS BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE CAN BE CHANGED.

OKAY.

LASTLY, I JUST WANNA SAY, I THINK YOU NEED TO LOOK INTO CONSIDERING WHETHER THE COUNCIL SHOULD APPOINT THE CHIEF OF POLICE.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS.

THAT CONCLUDES ALL THE SPEAKERS.

OKAY.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

MOVING ON

[APPROVAL OF MINUTES]

TO OUR NEXT ITEM, UH, APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM JANUARY 18TH, 2024, WHICH SHOULD BE IN YOUR PACKET.

UM, AFTER YOU ALL HAVE A CHANCE TO REVIEW THOSE, I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO APPROVE.

I MOVE APPROVAL.

SECOND.

ALL IN FAVOR? AYE.

AYE.

ANY OPPOSED? AYE.

OKAY.

THE MOTION PASSES.

[2. Law Department briefing regarding staff proposed charter revisions. ]

SO MOVING ON TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER TWO.

WE ARE GOING TO DEFER THE LAW DEPARTMENT BRIEFING, UM, BECAUSE WE DID HAVE SEVERAL SUBSTANTIVE ITEMS TONIGHT, INCLUDING TWO INVITED GUEST SPEAKERS.

UM, SO WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAD TIME TO HEAR FROM THOSE FOLKS.

AND SO CAROLINE WILL BE BACK AT OUR NEXT MEETING ON THE 15TH WITH THE BRIEFING ON THE STAFF CHANGES, UM, TO THE CHARTER.

DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD THERE, CAROLINE? NO, THE ONLY THING I WAS GONNA ADD, SORRY, THIS IS CAROLINE WEBSTER WITH THE LAW DEPARTMENT, IS THAT I WON'T, I MIGHT BE PRESENTING THOSE, BUT MORE LIKELY IT'S GONNA BE WAJIHA RIZVI ANOTHER PERSON IN THE LAW DEPARTMENT.

'CAUSE SHE'S THE ONE WHO COMPILED THAT STAFF REPORT, BUT, OKAY.

THAT'S THE ONLY THING.

THANK YOU FOR THAT CLARIFICATION.

SO MOVING

[3. Discussion and possible action on the City Attorney Working Group initial recommendation report. (Chair Palvino, Commissioners Garcia and McGiverin)]

ON TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER THREE.

WE HAVE DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON THE CITY ATTORNEY WORKING GROUP.

UM, WHICH I AM GOING TO TURN OVER TO COMMISSIONER MCGIVEN BECAUSE HE DID THE, UH, INCREDIBLE WORK AND HEAVY LIFTING ON THIS RECOMMENDATION.

UM, WHICH WE HAVE INCLUDED MATERIALS IN YOUR PACKET.

HOWEVER, I, UM, THEY'RE INCOMPLETE BECAUSE MY SCANNER SKIPPED EVERY OTHER PAGE.

AND SO I WILL, AFTER THE MEETING PROVIDE A COMPLETE PACKET OF THE MATERIALS .

UM, HOWEVER YOU DO HAVE A MEMO IN PACKET FROM US.

COMMISSIONER GN.

THANK YOU.

UM, FIRST, UH, THE SPEAKER THAT WE INVITED TO JOIN US ON ZOOM, UM, CHUCK THOMPSON.

IS HE WITH US? YES, HE'S OKAY.

UM, WELL, SO THEN I'LL JUST GIVE A SHORT INTRODUCTION AND THEN, UM, UH, OFFER THE MICROPHONE TO, UH, MR. THOMPSON.

UM, THE SHORT STORY IS THAT WE INVESTIGATED SOME OF THE MODELS THAT WERE USED IN OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY.

AND, UH, ONE RECOMMENDATION THAT, UM, WE ULTIMATELY SETTLED ON AS A GROUP WAS, UH, WHAT WE, WHAT MR. THOMPSON WILL DESCRIBE.

ACTUALLY, HE WAS CRITICAL IN US COMING TO THAT RECOMMENDATION.

UM, THE FIRST PART IS REFLECTIVE OF, UM, WHAT IS INCLUDED IN THE MODEL CHARTER THAT'S SET OUT BY THE NATIONAL, UH, MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, WHICH IS THAT CITY ATTORNEYS SHOULD BE IN, IN A CITY MANAGER STYLE OF GOVERNMENT, SHOULD BE APPOINTED BY THE CITY MANAGER WITH, AND THEN GIVEN THE APPROVAL, UH, WITH THE APPROVAL OF CITY COUNCIL, UH, KINDS OF ADVICE AND CONSENT ROLE.

AND SIMILAR THAT ANY REMOVAL OF A CITY ATTORNEY WOULD BE, UH, ACCOMPLISHED IN THE SAME WAY THROUGH JOINT ACTION OF THE CITY MANAGER AND, UH, THE COUNCIL.

AND, UH, THE SUPPORTING MATERIALS, WHICH, UH, I GUESS WE HAVE EVERY EVEN NUMBER PAGE OF, UM, I THOUGHT MADE A COMPELLING POINT ABOUT HOW THAT SIMPLE STRUCTURAL CHANGE, YOU KNOW, ADDRESSES ANY LATENT OR ACTUAL CONCERN OR POTENTIAL FUTURE CONCERN ABOUT KIND OF THE STRUCTURE OF ACCOUNTABILITY BETWEEN THE INSTITUTIONS.

UM, I THOUGHT THAT WAS COMPELLING.

UM, AND THEN TAKING A STEP FURTHER, AND I, I DO PROMISE I'M GONNA STOP TALKING IN A MOMENT.

UM, MR. THOMAS HAD A, AN EXCELLENT, UH, IDEA, UH, REGARDING, UM, ALSO TRYING TO ADDRESS A CONCERN THAT, YOU KNOW, HAS COME UP FROM TIME TO TIME ABOUT THE INDEPENDENCE OF LEGAL ADVICE BEING GIVEN TO THE CITY COUNCIL.

UH, HIS INDIVIDUAL EXPERIENCE IS ACTUALLY, UH, IN PART WITH THE COUNTY, MONTGOMERY COUNTY IN MARYLAND, WHERE THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS HAVE INDEPENDENT COUNSEL, AND I THINK HE CAN SPEAK TO SOME OF THE DRAWBACKS

[00:15:01]

THAT COME FROM THAT.

AND HE HAD SUGGESTED SORT OF A MIDDLE ROUTE OF, UH, HAVING A PERSON FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE APPOINTED TO WORK WITH COUNSEL WITH, UM, SOME REASONABLE SORT OF FIREWALLS AND COMMUNICATION.

UM, AND I'LL LET HIM SPEAK TO THAT POINT IF I CAN.

AND I'LL JUST ADD, UM, BEFORE WE START FIRING QUESTIONS AWAY.

UM, BUT MR. THOMPSON, THE WAY YOU KNOW, BRIAN, AS I MENTIONED, DID A LOT OF THE LEGWORK HERE.

UM, AND WE RELIED HEAVILY ON THE NATIONAL CIVIC LEAGUE MODEL, CITY CHARTER, WHICH IS, UH, PARTIALLY IN YOUR MATERIALS, AND I WILL PROVIDE A FULL COPY.

UM, AND IN, IN LOOKING AT THAT CITY CHARTER, WE WERE KIND OF TRYING TO FIND THE ATTORNEY WHO WEIGHED IN ON THAT, WHO, UH, AND I DON'T KNOW IF MR. THOMPSON WILL TAKE FULL CREDIT FOR DRAFTING IT, BUT HE WAS CERTAINLY INTEGRALLY INVOLVED IN DRAFTING IT TO REALLY MAKE SURE WE GOT CONNECTED WITH A SUBJECT MATTER EXPERT.

AND SO MR. THOMPSON WAS, WAS PREVIOUSLY, HE IS CURRENTLY STAFF ATTORNEY FOR THE INTERNATIONAL MUNICIPAL LAWYERS ASSOCIATION, AND HE WAS PREVIOUSLY THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AND GENERAL COUNSEL OF THAT ORGANIZATION.

UM, AND THEN AS BRIAN MENTIONED BEFORE, THEN HE SERVED AS A COUNTY ATTORNEY FOR ABOUT 30 YEARS, UM, IN TWO DIFFERENT COUNTIES, INCLUDING MONTGOMERY COUNTY, WHERE, UH, ROCKVILLE, MARYLAND IS, WHICH RIGHT OUTSIDE OF DC.

SO A LARGE, UH, LARGE POPULATION THERE.

UM, AND SO WE WERE LUCKY ENOUGH TO GET CONNECTED WITH HIM AND KIND OF DISCUSS, YOU KNOW, OUR VARIOUS CONCERNS AND POTENTIAL PROPOSALS WITH HIM.

UM, BUT WE WANTED TO INVITE HIM TO TONIGHT BECAUSE WE THOUGHT YOU ALL MIGHT HAVE QUESTIONS, PARTICULARLY BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF ATTORNEYS ON THE COMMISSION, AND WE HAVE A FORMER CITY ATTORNEY ON THE COMMISSION.

UM, WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU ALL WERE ABLE TO SPEAK DIRECTLY WITH THE SUBJECT MATTER EXPERT RATHER THAN SORT OF FILTERING YOUR, UH, QUESTIONS AND RESPONSES THROUGH, THROUGH US.

UM, AND SO WITH THAT, WHICH ONE CORRECT? AN ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY, ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY, , NOT THE, UM, AND SO WITH THAT, UM, MR. THOMPSON, IF YOU'RE ON THE LINE, UM, OH YEAH, DID WE STATE EVERYTHING? DID WE MISSTATE ANYTHING? PLEASE FEEL FREE TO JUMP IN AND CORRECT ANYTHING THAT WE MISSTATED, BUT, UM, BUT OTHERWISE WE WILL KIND OF OPEN UP OUR COMMISSION TO, TO QUESTIONS IF ANYONE HAS ANY.

YES.

COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, WHEN IT'S AN APPOINTMENT OR A REMOVAL BY THE, UM, MANAGER AND THE COUNCIL IS, DOES THE MANAGER GET TO OVERRULE THE COUNCIL OR JUST ONE VOTE LIKE THE OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS? IT'S, IT IS, IT HAS TO BE A JOINT ACTION IS WHAT THE MODEL CHARTER PROVIDES.

AND I, I WOULD SAY I WAS, I WAS A MEMBER OF A, OF THE COMMITTEE THAT PARTICIPATED IN DRAFTING THAT.

I CAN'T TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY AT ALL, AND I PROBABLY, UH, HESITATE TO CALL MYSELF AN EXPERT, BUT, UH, THANK YOU FOR DOING SO.

SO, MR. THOMPSON, THE CITY MANAGER WOULD SEND A LETTER REQUESTING OR SAYING THAT THEY'RE READY TO REMOVE THE CITY ATTORNEY AND THE COUNCIL WILL PASS THE RESOLUTION SAYING THAT THEY CONCUR.

AND THAT MEANS THE CITY ATTORNEY IS VACATED.

IS THAT THE MECHANICS? THAT'S, I, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE, THE MECHANICS WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT EACH CITY WOULD HAVE TO TRY TO, UH, INCORPORATE IN AFTER THEIR CHARTER IS ADOPTED.

BUT, UH, YES, I THINK THAT WOULD BE ONE WAY.

THE OTHER WAY WOULD BE THE COUNCIL WOULD SEND A LETTER TO THE CITY MANAGER SAYING THAT IT IS OUR DETERMINATION THAT YOU NEED TO REMOVE, UH, OR THAT WE NEED TO REMOVE THE CITY ATTORNEY.

AND THEN THE MANAGER COULD EITHER ACCEPT OR REJECT THAT, UH, SUGGESTION.

THAT'S WHAT I ASKED.

UH, RYAN BOKEN, UM, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, UH, MR. THOMAS.

I, I, UH, APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

UH, ISSUES OF PRIVILEGE ARE NOTORIOUSLY KIND OF DIFFICULT IN WITH RESPECT TO, TO PUBLIC ENTITIES.

DOES THIS PROPOSAL HAVE ANY IMPACT ON, UH, PRIVILEGE ISSUES OR WAIVER OF PRIVILEGE? AS YOU SAY, PRIVILEGE IS A DIFFICULT, UH, TOPIC, AND I'M NOT SOMEONE WHO IS, UH, COMPLETELY KNOWLEDGEABLE, IF KNOWLEDGEABLE AT ALL ON TEXAS LAW.

UH, AND PRIVILEGE VARIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY, BUT WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THAT IN MOST JURISDICTIONS, THAT IN THE COURSES THAT I'VE TAUGHT OVER THE YEARS, UH, INVOLVING ETHICS, THE, UH, PRIVILEGE IS THAT OF THE ORGANIZATION AS A WHOLE.

AND, UH, AN ATTORNEY WHO, WHO REPRESENTS THE CLIENT, THE CLIENT IS THE ORGANIZATION UNDER SECTION, UH, I THINK MODEL RULE 1 1, 1 1 3.

IN TEXAS, THE NUMBER IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.

[00:20:01]

SO, UH, IT'S NOT 1.113 IN TEXAS, BUT I'M NOT SURE WHAT IT IS.

BUT THE A BA MODEL IS 1.113, TEXAS, IT MAY BE 1.114, IF I, I I COULD BE, LIKE I SAY, IT'S IT, BUT IT'S THE REPRESENTATION OF AN ORGANIZATION AND YOU REPRESENT THE ORGANIZATION, NOT THE CONSTITUENTS OF THE ORGANIZATION.

THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH WOULD BE A CONSTITUENT OF THE ORGANIZATION.

THE COUNCIL WOULD BE A CONSTITUENT OF THE ORGANIZATION, AS WOULD EACH DEPARTMENT OR DEPARTMENT HEAD.

AND, UH, IT IS THE PRIVILEGE OF THE ORGANIZATION AS OPPOSED TO THE PRIVILEGE OF INDIVIDUALS.

THERE ARE CASES AROUND THE COUNTRY THAT DISCUSS HOW PRIVILEGE CAN BE WAIVED, UH, EITHER INTENTIONALLY OR UNINTENTIONALLY.

UH, BUT GENERALLY, UH, THOSE CASES, AS I RECALL FROM THE LAST TIME I TAUGHT THE COURSE, WAS THAT WHERE MOST LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, THE PRIVILEGE, UH, HAS TO BE INTENTIONALLY WAIVED, UH, BY, UH, THE CLIENT.

AND, AND A FOLLOW UP QUESTION ON THAT, ON THAT POINT, DOES UNDER THE CURRENT MODEL WITH THE CITY MANAGER APPOINTMENT, DOES THAT, DOES THAT ENTITLE THE CITY MANAGER TO WAIVE PRIVILEGE? OR IS THAT A, AN AUTHORITY RESERVED TO THE COUNCIL ALONE, OR IS IT JOINT, UM, UNDER THIS PROPOSAL? I'M JUST, I'M JUST CURIOUS HOW THE, THE WAIVER ISSUE OPERATES.

YEAH, I, I DON'T THINK THERE'S A CLEAR ANSWER TO THAT.

I USED TO JOKE ALL THE TIME THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, UNDER THE FORM OF GOVERNMENT WHERE I PRACTICED AS MON IN MONTGOMERY COUNTY FOR 12 YEARS, THE, UH, IT WAS AN EXECUTIVE COUNCIL FORM OF GOVERNMENT WITH A CLEAR SEPARATION OF POWERS.

AND, UH, THE GENERALLY UNDER AN EXECUTIVE FORM OF GOVERNMENT, THE, IT IT'S AN EXECUTIVE FUNCTION TO, UH, WAIVE PRIVILEGE.

SO THE QUESTION WAS, AND, AND FORTUNATELY IT NEVER CAME UP, IS COULD THE EXECUTIVE WAIVE THE COUNCIL'S PRIVILEGE? I, I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S A GOOD ANSWER FOR THAT.

I, I WOULD SUSPECT NOT, BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, FOR A, FOR AN INTERESTING LAW SCHOOL QUESTION, I THINK NOT, UH, IT'S NOT LIKELY TO COME UP TOO OFTEN.

THE OTHER ASPECT OF THAT THAT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE IS THAT THERE IS ALSO LEGISLATIVE PRIVILEGE AND LEGISLATIVE PRIVILEGE.

MAYBE IT, I WOULD HOPE IT'S RECOGNIZED IN TEXAS.

IT'S RECOGNIZED IN A NUMBER OF STATES.

IT WAS RECOGNIZED.

IT IS IN MARYLAND WHERE I PRACTICED, AND, UH, THE, THE COUNCIL HAD LEGISLATIVE PRIVILEGE, AND WHERE, WHERE I PRACTICED THE EXECUTIVE HAD LEGISLATIVE PRIVILEGE FOR THOSE MATTERS WHERE THE EXECUTIVE WAS, UH, CONSIDERING VETO OR SOME OTHER LEGISLATIVE TYPE STYLE ACT.

THANK YOU.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I, I DID, I DID TEACH LOCAL GOVERNMENT LAW FOR ABOUT 20 YEARS AT, UH, THE NATIONAL LAW CENTER IN GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY.

UH, THE PRIVILEGE ISSUE THOUGH, WAS SOMETHING I'VE, I'VE TAUGHT ETHICS CLASSES AT, UH, IMLA PROGRAMS AROUND THE COUNTRY AND, UH, AT SOME STATE MUNICIPAL AID COURSES.

SO, UH, I, I HAVE AT LEAST, UH, DONE SOME, A FAIR AMOUNT OF RESEARCH ON THE ISSUE OF PRIVILEGE.

IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, I, I'M SEMI-RETIRED, AND YOU KNOW, I'M OLD.

AND WHAT I REMEMBER IS, UH, AND CAN, CAN GET CLOUDED A LITTLE BIT, BUT, UH, PRIVILEGE IS, IS A VERY UNIQUE ISSUE FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

THERE ARE SOME, UH, THERE, THERE ARE SOME CASES, ONE OUT OF THE, UH, SIXTH CIRCUIT OR SEVENTH CIRCUIT, AS I RECALL, THAT, UH, DID NOT RECOGNIZE, UH, A PRIVILEGE FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

WHEREAS IN, AT ABOUT THE SAME TIME, UH, THE SECOND CIRCUIT DID, AND THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE TWO WAS THE GOVERNOR OF ILLINOIS WAS INDICTED AND SENT TO JAIL, WHEREAS THE GOVERNOR OF CONNECTICUT WAS NOT.

AND, UH, THE, THOSE WERE THE RESULTS OF THOSE TWO CIRCUIT OPINIONS, AS I RECALL.

INTERESTING.

SO, MR. THOMPSON, ONE ISSUE THAT WE, AFTER, UM, OUR CONVERSATION, AFTER YOUR CONVERSATION WITH OUR WORKING GROUP, UM, THAT I WANTED TO FLUSH OUT WITH THE COMMISSION TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE KIND OF UNDERSTOOD THE REASONS BEHIND THIS PARTICULAR RECOMMENDATION.

SO IN ADDITION TO THE, YOU KNOW, CITY ATTORNEY BEING NOMINATED AND, UH, NOMINATED BY THE MANAGER AND, UH, APPROVED BY COUNSEL, BOTH THE NOMINATION AND THE, OR THE APPOINTMENT AND THE REMOVAL, WE HAVE AN ADDITIONAL RECOMMENDATION THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY WILL DESIGNATE SOMEONE WITHIN THEIR OFFICE TO KIND OF SERVE AS COUNCIL, TO THE COUNCIL, UM, SO THAT WHEN THEY ARE DEVELOPING POLICY PROPOSALS, THEY HAVE A SINGLE POINT OF CONTACT.

AND I KNOW YOU HAD SOME EXPERIENCE WORKING WITH, UM, AN INDEPENDENT, YOU KNOW, KIND OF AN INDEPENDENT LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL

[00:25:01]

VERSUS A LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL THAT'S APPOINTED FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE OR, UM, AND WONDERING IF YOU COULD SPEAK A LITTLE BIT TO THAT DISTINCTION, UM, AND REASONS WHY, UM, YOU KNOW, WORKS BETTER TO HAVE AN ATTORNEY FROM WITHIN THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE? UH, I'LL DO MY BEST.

THE, UH, LET ME PREFACE IT BY SAYING THAT THE ATTORNEYS THAT THE COUNSEL HAD, UH, WERE VERY GOOD ATTORNEYS.

I HAD A LOT OF RESPECT FOR THEM.

UH, I, IT SEEMED TO ME FIRST THAT IT'S SOMEWHAT FISCALLY UNSOUND TO HAVE, UH, ATTORNEYS REPRESENTING BOTH BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT, UH, THAT ARE OUTSIDE THE, THE OFFICE OF THE GENERAL COUNSEL.

YOU DON'T SEE THAT IN THE CORPORATE SETTING.

UH, MOST CITIES AND MOST LOCAL GOVERNMENTS ARE CORPORATE ENTITIES.

AND SO WHY WOULD YOU TAKE WHAT WORKS WELL IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR AND CHANGE THAT FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENT? YOU HAVE, UM, OFTENTIMES BATTLING, UH, ISSUES OF CREATED BY, UH, WHAT I GUESS WE ALL CALL NOW THE POLITICAL DIVIDE, WHERE YOU HAVE, UH, SOME ISSUES THAT ARE PROMOTED OUT OF POLITICS THAT, YOU KNOW, CREATE CONFLICT BETWEEN THE TWO BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT, UH, MAYBE MORE SO IN THE EXECUTIVE COUNCIL FORM THAT I, I PRACTICED IN.

BUT NEVERTHELESS, YOU HAVE THESE CONFLICTS THAT I THINK ARE NOT, UM, UH, NECESS, THEY COULD BE RESOLVED MORE EASILY WHERE THE CITY ATTORNEY OR COUNTY ATTORNEY ACTS OFTEN AS A MEDIATOR, UH, AND DOES SO NOT JUST BETWEEN THE BRANCHES, BUT BETWEEN DEPARTMENTS.

AND I USED THE EXAMPLE WHEN I SPOKE TO YOU OF, UH, SAY, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND THE FIRE MARSHAL WHERE, UH, AND SOMETIMES ZONING WHERE, YOU KNOW, THE INTEREST MAY DIFFER, BUT YOU KNOW, YOU WANT TO TRY TO MEDIATE THOSE DIFFERENCES SO THAT IT DOESN'T, THESE INTERESING BATTLES DON'T BECOME SOMETHING THAT, UH, CREATES SUCH, SUCH A HUGE AMOUNT OF FRICTION THAT GOVERNMENT ENABLE ISN'T ABLE TO OPERATE EFFICIENTLY AND EFFECTIVELY.

THERE ARE TIMES TOO, WHEN MEMBERS OF MY STAFF, I THINK, AND MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL, LEGISLATIVE, UH, STAFF, UH, THEIR COUNCIL, UH, WOULD, WOULD SEE THINGS QUITE DIFFERENTLY.

UH, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT BECAME A, A PROBLEM FOR US WAS IF THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL AND OUR OFFICE DISAGREED OVER THE ADOPTION OF A SPECIFIC PIECE OF LEGISLATION, AND THE COUNCIL ADOPTED IT, RELYING UPON THEIR ATTORNEYS, GENERALLY, THE LEGISLATIVE PACKAGE WOULD INCLUDE OUR OPINION THAT, UH, IDENTIFIED WHAT THE MAJOR PROBLEMS OF THE LEGISLATION MIGHT BE.

AND, UH, OBVIOUSLY THAT BECAME PUBLIC.

AND WHEN WE WERE CALLED UPON TO DEFEND THE LEGISLATION, UH, WE WERE FACED WITH, UH, TELLING THE COURT, UH, WHY WE WERE WRONG AND WHY THE, THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, UH, WAS RIGHT.

IF WE COULD DO THAT, UH, IT, IT MADE IT MUCH MORE DIFFICULT FOR US.

AND I USED THE EXAMPLE WHEN I SPOKE TO YOU EARLIER, THERE'S THE OLD STORY ABOUT ABRAHAM LINCOLN, WHO, UH, WHILE A TRIAL LAWYER REPRESENTED A CLIENT IN THE MORNING AND D DEFENDED THE CLIENT BASED ON AN INTERPRETATION OF THE STATUTE, WENT TO LUNCH WITH THE CIRCUIT, UH, ATTORNEYS, AND CAME BACK AFTERWARDS AND WAS DEFENDING ANOTHER CLIENT, UH, BASED ON A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION, THE OPPOSITE INTERPRETATION OF THE STATUTE.

THE JUDGE SAID TO MR. LINCOLN, UH, WHY, UH, YOU WERE HERE THIS MORNING AND YOU ARGUED JUST THE OPPOSITE.

HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY ARGUE THAT SOMETHING DIFFERENT THIS AFTERNOON? AND HE SAID, WELL, I WENT TO LUNCH AND I THOUGHT ABOUT IT.

AND SO I, I CHANGED MY MIND.

UH, THAT WAS SORT OF, UH, A, AN AWKWARD POSITION FOR HIM, I'M SURE, BUT AWKWARD AS WELL FOR US.

AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE ARE TIMES WHEN, UH, YOU, WHENEVER YOU HAVE LAWYERS, UH, AND SINCE I UNDERSTAND A LOT OF YOU ARE LAWYERS, UH, THERE'S SOMETHING I WAS SAYING THAT IF YOU HAVE TWO LAWYERS IN A ROOM, YOU MAY HAVE THREE OR MORE OPINIONS.

AND, UH, UNFORTUNATELY THAT THAT SOMETIMES THE CASE.

SO I, I THINK IF YOU HAVE, UH, THE LAW OFFICE REPRESENTING BOTH COUNCIL AND EXECUTIVE AND ALL THE DIFFERENT AGENCIES OF THE GOVERNMENT, YOU HAVE AN OFFICE THAT'S, UH, DEDICATED TO THE MISSION THAT THE ELECTED LEADERS, UH, DETERMINE IS APPROPRIATE FOR THE GOVERNMENT.

AND YOU WORK TO PROVIDE HELP TO THE AGENCIES AND THE LEGISLATIVE BODY AND THE ELECTED, UH, OFFICIALS TO ACHIEVE THAT MISSION.

THANK YOU, MR. THOMPSON.

THAT WAS A HELPFUL EXPLANATION.

DOES ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. THOMPSON WHILE WE HAVE HIM?

[00:30:03]

NO, I DON'T SEE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS.

WELL, MR. THOMPSON, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND EXPERTISE.

WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOU JOINING US TONIGHT.

WELL, AUSTIN'S A TERRIFIC CITY.

WE'VE HAD OUR CONFERENCE THERE A COUPLE OF TIMES, AND, UH, I KNOW EVERYONE AT IMLA ENJOYED COMING TO AUSTIN AND PROBABLY ME MOST OF ALL.

SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HAVING SUCH A WONDERFUL CITY, AND I APPRECIATE YOUR DEDICATION TO IT.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

SO IS THERE ANY ADDITIONAL DISCUSSION THAT WE WANT TO HAVE ON THE CITY ATTORNEY ISSUE? I THINK IF NOT, WE WILL PLAN TO COME BACK AT THE NEXT MEETING WITH A FINAL RECOMMENDATION ON THAT POINT FOR VOTING.

NOPE, SINCE I CAME LATE, WAS THERE ANY TENTATIVE RECOMMENDATION? THE TENTATIVE RECOMMENDATION IS IN THE PACKET THAT WE PROVIDED, AND SO THE RECOMMENDATION WAS TWOFOLD.

NUMBER ONE, IT'S THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY SHOULD BE NOMINATED BY THE CITY MANAGER AND CONFIRMED BY COUNSEL.

AND THEN REMOVAL WOULD ALSO REQUIRE THAT JOINT ACTION.

THAT'S PRONG ONE.

AND THEN PRONG TWO, UM, IS THAT AN ATTORNEY WITHIN THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SHOULD BE APPOINTED TO SERVE AS LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL, UM, TO THE COUNSEL AND KIND OF SERVE AS A SINGLE POINT OF CONTACT.

UM, BUT FOR THE REASONS THAT MR. THOMPSON MENTIONED, WE DID ULTIMATELY FEEL THAT IT WAS BETTER TO HAVE AN ATTORNEY WITHIN THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE FOR CONSISTENCY PURPOSES RATHER THAN HAVING AN INDEPENDENT CITY ATTORNEY.

UM, OR RATHER THAN HAVING AN INDEPENDENT, UH, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL CONSULT WITH THE CITY COUNCIL.

THANK YOU.

OKAY, GREAT CLARIFICATION.

THANK YOU.

AND JUST A CLARIFICATION IS THE FULL TEXT OF THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT, UM, I KNOW YOU SCANNER DIDN'T, IT IS NOT COOPERATE.

WE, SO WE, WE PUT TOGETHER OUR PRELIMINARY REPORT KIND OF WITH THE INTENT OF DISCUSSING IT TO SEE IF THERE WERE ANY MAJOR CONCERNS, AND THEN WE WILL COME BACK AT THE NEXT MEETING WITH A FINAL REPORT THAT WE'LL INCLUDE LANGUAGE.

OKAY.

MADAM CHAIR? YES.

UH, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR PUTTING THIS TOGETHER, WHAT YOU HAVE SHARED WITH US.

UH, I FEEL VERY COMFORTABLE WITH RECOMMENDATION NUMBER ONE.

I THINK IT IS AN ELEGANT SOLUTION BOTH TO NOT WANTING TO CHANGE THINGS TOO MUCH AND MAKING SURE THAT THE ATTORNEY IS SEEN AS ULTIMATELY OPERATING UNDER THE GUISE OF THE CITY MANAGER, BUT PROVIDING A BIT OF RESPONSIVENESS AND A, A PLACE IN THE PROCESS FOR CITY COUNCIL.

SO I APPRECIATE YOUR ELEGANT SOLUTION TO THAT, AND I AM CONFIDENT THAT, UH, MY APPOINTER WILL BE EXCITED BY IT ON NUMBER TWO.

I ALSO FEEL THIS IS A CREATIVE SOLUTION TO, UH, VERY REAL CONCERN THAT COUNCIL FROM TIME TO TIME RAISES ABOUT THEIR NEED TO HAVE A LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL THAT IS FOR THEM, UH, FOR THOSE MOMENTS WHERE THEY MIGHT WANT A SECOND OPINION OR A SLIGHTLY MORE ADVERSARIAL OPINION THAN WHAT THE, UM, CITY ATTORNEY IS PROVIDING THEM.

I THINK ONE QUESTION I HAVE ABOUT NUMBER TWO FOR YOU ALL TO RESOLVE AS YOU, AS YOU PUT TOGETHER, THE ITEM YOU'LL VOTE ON IS, UH, WHO REMOVES THAT INDIVIDUAL, UH, IN THE EVENT THAT THERE THERE IS UNSATISFACTORY PERFORMANCE OR IF IT'S, UH, PURELY AN SOMEONE THAT RESPONDS TO THE CITY ATTORNEY AND THAT'S IT, UH, IT SEEMS THAT THE, YOU WOULD WANT THEM TO BE IN A CONE OF INDEPENDENCE, AT LEAST DURING THEIR APPOINTMENT, SO THAT IF THEY DO PROVIDE ADVERSARIAL OR CONTROVERSIAL OPINIONS THAT UNDERMINE THE CITY MANAGERS AND CITY ATTORNEY'S PERSPECTIVE ON SOMETHING, THEY SIMPLY CAN'T BE RECALLED.

UM, I, I DON'T THINK THAT, UH, THE TEAM WE HAVE NOW WOULD BEHAVE IN THAT WAY, BUT WE WANT TO ANTICIPATE THAT SITUATION.

AND I WOULD JUST LOOK FOR GUIDANCE ON THAT.

AND I FEEL COMFORTABLE IF THE GUIDANCE IS, IT'S AN EMPLOYEE OF THE CITY ATTORNEY.

SO THAT'S THE STRUCTURE WE HAVE, UM, JUST AS, AS LONG AS WE CAN EXPLAIN IT TO THE PUBLIC, WHAT WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN THAT, IN THAT SITUATION.

THAT'S HELPFUL FEEDBACK.

THANK YOU.

I SUSPECT THAT THAT WILL BE THE ANSWER, BUT WE'LL LOOK AT A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT MODELS AND, UH, IN DEVELOPING THE LANGUAGE AND COME BACK WITH SOMETHING.

MADAM CHAIR, I HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION.

YES, SORRY TO INTERRUPT.

UM, I ASSUME THE ANSWER IS NO, BUT IS THERE ANY, UH, THAT I ASSUME THERE'S NO OPPORTUNITY FOR THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL TO, UH, REPRESENT THE CITY AND LITIGATION? UH, THIS IS, THIS IS PURELY AS A COUNCIL FOR THE LEGISLATIVE PURPOSES, BUT NOT FOR LITIGATION PURPOSES.

THAT IS, WELL, CORRECT ME IF THIS IS WRONG, BRIAN, I THINK, BUT THAT WAS HOW WE HAD ENVISIONED IT.

I, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT NECESSARILY LIMITS THEM FROM, I MEAN, THAT WOULD BE A QUESTION FOR CAROLINE TOO,

[00:35:01]

IN TERMS OF HOW THE CITY ATTORNEY STAFFS.

I, I DON'T THINK WE, YOU KNOW, THIS ISN'T AN ATTEMPT TO, UH, DICTATE HOW THE CITY ATTORNEY IS STAFFING OUR TEAM.

SO, UM, YOU KNOW, WHETHER THE COUNSEL'S ATTORNEY IS ALSO REPRESENTING THE ATTORNEY IN LITIGATION, RIGHT? 'CAUSE YOU CAN ENVISION A SITUATION WHERE, UM, YOU KNOW, THE INDEPENDENCE OF THE COUNSEL YOU'RE PROVIDING TO THE RIGHT, TO THE COUNSEL, TO THE COUNSEL, UM, MAY CONFLICT WITH THE LITIGATION POSITION, OR THAT THERE COULD BE SOME, UH, CONFLICT THERE IN A LITIGATION POSTURE, WHICH WOULD BE GOOD FOR THE CITY.

WELL, AND I THINK, I MEAN, THE EXAMPLE THAT MR. THOMPSON GAVE, I THINK, THINK WAS COMPELLING, AT LEAST TO ME, UM, IN THAT IF YOU HAVE AN ATTORNEY WITHIN THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, AT LEAST YOU'RE, YOU'RE MORE LIKELY TO HAVE KIND OF CONSISTENCY IN LEGAL OPINIONS AND HOPEFULLY THEN CONSISTENCY FROM A POLICY MAKING LEVEL ALL THE WAY UP TO, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S CHALLENGED IN LITIGATION, UM, IF YOU HAVE SOMEONE WITHIN THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE VERSUS SOMEONE WHO'S INDEPENDENT.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

YES.

WOULD THAT ROLE HAVE DIRECT INTERACTION WITH THE, UM, GOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS OFFICE? WOULD THEY BE HOUSED THERE? WE SORT OF HAVE TO.

SO DON MEAN I DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND THIS PROPOSAL BECAUSE I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT IT'S ADDRESSING REALLY.

SO WHEN YOU SAY THERE'S A LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, THAT'S A PERSON WITHIN THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.

AND SO THE INTERGOVERNMENTAL INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS OFFICE DEALS WITH THE STATE LEGISLATURE AMONG OTHER THINGS.

SO I DON'T THINK THE LEG WORD LEGISLATURE'S NOT USED IN THAT.

WE'RE USING IT IN TWO DIFFERENT WAYS.

OKAY.

SO I THINK THAT THAT REALLY IS WHAT I MEANT TO CLARIFY.

THE STATE LEGISLATURE WOULDN'T BE.

YES, WE HAVE AN I-I-G-R-O OFFICE THAT HANDLES OUR LIAISONS WITH US, WITH THE, UM, STATE LEGISLATURE WHEN WE'RE REVIEWING BILLS AND PROVIDING FEEDBACK, ET CETERA.

I'M USING THE TERM LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL BECAUSE IT'S CLEARER THAN SAYING THE COUNCIL'S COUNCIL, BUT IT IS INTENDED TO BE, YOU KNOW, THE COUNCIL TO THE CITY COUNCIL.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS BEFORE WE MOVE ON? WELL, I'M, I'M ASSUMING THIS WILL BE ADDRESSED IN YOUR NEXT MEMO, BUT IS THERE ANY SENSE OF HOW THIS WOULD AFFECT STAFFING? UH, NO.

I THINK WE WILL NEED TO GET A FISCAL IMPACT, UM, THAT IS PART OF OUR RECOMMENDATION.

AND SO WE'LL NEED TO WORK WITH CAROLINE TO DETERMINE, UM, YOU KNOW, STAFFING WISE IF THEY WOULD NEED AN ADDITIONAL FTE POSITION FOR, TO STAFF THIS ROLE.

BUT YOU DON'T ANTICIPATE MORE THAN JUST ONE ADDITIONAL POSITION? I, I, I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND THAT'S, AT LEAST INITIALLY, I THINK THAT'S THE, UH, VISION, UH, WOULD BE ONE PERSON.

OKAY.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ON ITEM NUMBER THREE? OKAY.

AND FOR CLARITY, BEFORE WE MOVE ON, I KNOW MS. CHANG HAD, UH, RAISED A QUESTION ABOUT WHO WAS ON THE WORKING GROUPS.

AND SO THAT DISCUSSION, UH, WAS BROUGHT BY THE CITY ATTORNEY WORKING GROUP, WHICH IS MYSELF, UH, COMMISSIONER GARCIA AND MIKE GN.

AND SO I SEE ON OUR ZOOM, UM, THAT WE HAVE DR.

LARRY SCHOOLER WITH US.

AND SO I AM GOING TO TAKE AN AGENDA ITEM OUT OF ORDER.

UM, WE'RE GONNA MOVE TO

[7. Discussion and possible action regarding community engagement of the Charter Review process from the Outreach Work Group. ]

ITEM NUMBER SEVEN, WHICH IS DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION REGARDING COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT OF THE CHARTER REVIEW PROCESS FROM THE OUTREACH WORK GROUP.

UM, WE HAVE COMMISSIONER LASH AND GARCIA AND MYSELF ON THE OUTREACH WORKING GROUP.

UM, WE HAVE BEEN WORKING ON PUBLIC OUTREACH, AS YOU ALL KNOW.

WE DID OUR SPEAK UP AUSTIN PAGE, AND NOW WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON SCHEDULING TOWN HALL MEETINGS.

AND SO DR.

SCHOOLER, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DO NOT KNOW HIM, UM, AS FORMER, I'M NOT ENTIRELY SURE EXACTLY WHAT YOUR POSITION AT THE CITY WAS, DR.

SCHOOLER, BUT I KNOW THAT YOU SPECIALIZED IN PUBLIC PARTICIPATION, UM, AND PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT WHEN YOU WERE HERE.

AND, UH, CURRENTLY DR.

SCHOOLER IS, IS A PROFESSOR, UM, AT THE MOODY COLLEGE OF COMMUNICATIONS, UM, SPECIALIZING IN THE SAME THINGS ALONG WITH, UH, CONFLICT RESOLUTION AND FACILITATION.

AND SO WE INVITED HIM HERE AS WE'RE DISCUSSING THE STRUCTURE AND CADENCE OF OUR TOWN HALL MEETINGS, UM, SO THAT WE CAN ASK HIM QUESTIONS, UM, ABOUT KIND OF WHAT'S THE BEST WAY TO ENGAGE WITH FOLKS ON THE ISSUES THAT WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US.

UM, BECAUSE I KNOW LAST TIME WE TALKED ABOUT THE TOWN HALLS, THERE WERE A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT SHOULD WE DO THEM VIRTUALLY? SHOULD WE DO THEM IN PERSON? YOU KNOW, SHOULD WE DO THEM ALL AT CITY HALL OR SHOULD WE TRY TO KIND OF SPREAD THEM ACROSS DIFFERENT LOCATIONS IN THE CITY? AND SO DR.

SCHOOLER IS THE PERFECT PERSON TO, UM, ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS FOR US AND ALSO TO JUST KIND OF GENERALLY WEIGH IN ON THE STRUCTURE OF THE TOWN HALL.

SO, WELCOME DR.

SCHOOLER, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

MY PLEASURE, CHAIR.

GOOD TO SEE EVERYBODY.

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR SERVICE.

YES, THANK YOU.

AND YOU'VE, I MET WITH OUR WORKING GROUP SEVERAL TIMES.

I DO WANNA MENTION DEVOTED A LOT OF TIME, UM, TO OUR CAUSE SO FAR.

SO WE REALLY APPRECIATE

[00:40:01]

YOUR TIME AND BEING HERE TONIGHT.

OF COURSE.

SO WE, AS YOU KNOW, LAST TIME WE DECIDED WE ARE GOING TO HAVE MULTIPLE TOWN HALL MEETINGS.

UM, AND THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION AROUND WHEN WE HOLD THESE TOWN HALL MEETINGS, IF WE WAIT UNTIL WE HAVE A FINAL REPORT OR IF IT'S BETTER TO GO AHEAD AND, UM, YOU KNOW, GET INPUT BEFORE OUR RECOMMENDATIONS ARE FINALIZED.

AND I THINK I HEARD FROM YOU ALL SPECIFICALLY RELATED TO THE PETITION THRESHOLD AND MOVING THE ELECTION DATES, THAT IT WOULD BE BETTER TO GET PUBLIC PARTICIPATION EARLIER IN THE PROCESS BEFORE WE ISSUE FINAL RECOMMENDATIONS BECAUSE WE FELT LIKE WE NEEDED THAT INPUT, UM, IN ORDER TO MAKE A DECISION.

AND SO MYRNA SENT OUT A POLL FOLLOWING OUR MEETING, AND IT LOOKS LIKE WE WILL HAVE A QUORUM AVAILABLE ON FEBRUARY 8TH.

AND SO WE ARE PLANNING, UM, THAT'S A THURSDAY.

UM, SO WE ARE PLANNING OUR NEXT TOWN HALL OR OUR FIRST TOWN HALL MEETING FOR FEBRUARY 8TH.

UM, THAT WILL BE HERE AT CITY HALL.

IT WILL BE VIRTUAL.

UM, IT WILL, WE WILL HAVE OPPORTUNITIES FOR VIRTUAL AND IN-PERSON PARTICIPATION, I THINK IS THE, IS THE PLAN.

AND WE'VE KIND OF TALKED THROUGH WITH DR.

SCHOOLER, A GE A GENERAL STRUCTURE FOR WHAT THAT MEETING IS GONNA LOOK LIKE.

BUT WE WILL NEED HELP FROM YOU ALL AND FROM THE WORKING GROUPS AND KIND OF FORMING THE SPECIFIC QUESTIONS THAT WE WANNA ASK.

AND SO THE, UM, GENERAL STRUCTURE THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED IS WE'LL HAVE, YOU KNOW, IT WILL BE AN HOUR LONG, ROUGHLY AN HOUR, UM, BECAUSE WE FEEL LIKE, ESPECIALLY IF WE'RE HOLDING IT MID-AFTERNOON, WE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO HOLD PEOPLE'S ATTENTION FOR MUCH LONGER THAN THAT.

IT WILL START WITH A BRIEF INTRODUCTION TO THE ISSUES, UM, THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH AND THE SPECIFIC FEEDBACK THAT WE'RE LOOKING TO GET FROM PEOPLE.

AND THEN WE WILL HAVE SOME TARGETED QUESTIONS, UM, DESIGNED TO PROVIDE INPUT ON ITEMS THAT WE ARE SEEKING TO PROVIDE INPUT ON.

AND I, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT VARIOUS WAYS OF POSING THESE QUESTIONS.

UM, I KNOW DR.

SCHOOLER, WE LOOKED INTO THE LIKERT SCALE, WHICH IS KIND OF A RANGE OF, YOU KNOW, ONE TO 10.

HOW MUCH DO YOU LIKE THIS IDEA? UM, WE'RE STILL KIND OF WAITING TO HEAR BACK IF, UM, FROM A TECHNOLOGY STANDPOINT WE CAN, WE CAN DO THAT, BUT THAT'S KIND OF THE GENERAL STRUCTURE OF THE MEETING SO FAR, SO, OR THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED SO FAR.

SO I DON'T KNOW, DR.

SCHOOLER, IF YOU WANT TO KIND OF WEIGH IN AT THIS POINT ON, YOU KNOW, BEST PRACTICES FOR PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT TOWN HALL MEETINGS, UM, AND THEN MAYBE WE CAN KICK IT OVER TO THE COMMISSIONERS FOR QUESTIONS AND ADDITIONAL DISCUSSION.

SURE.

WELL, THANKS AGAIN FOR THE CHANCE TO VISIT WITH YOU ALL.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS I WOULD, UM, JUST BE THINKING ABOUT IS, IS EVEN JUST THE NOMENCLATURE OF TOWN HALL, YOU KNOW, UH, I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY IN THE ROOM IS FROM NEW ENGLAND, BUT THEY HAVE TOWN MEETINGS AND, YOU KNOW, EACH PERSON GETS A VOTE IN, IN TOWNS OF A CERTAIN SIZE.

AND OF COURSE, THAT'S NOT WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE.

UM, AND I ALSO FEEL LIKE SOMETIMES WHEN PEOPLE HERE TOWN HALL, THEY, UH, INSTANTLY CONJURE UP, YOU KNOW, SORT OF PEOPLE TAKING TURNS AT A MICROPHONE AND, AND IT SORT OF BEING ANYTHING GOES.

AND I THINK JAR AND I, AND, AND THE WORKING GROUP TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, STRUCTURE THAT FEELS MORE LIKE A CONVERSATION WHERE THERE IS SOME FRAMING AT THE BEGINNING TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE ISSUES THAT ARE IN PLAY AND, AND WHAT WE'RE HERE TO TALK ABOUT AND, AND WHAT THE QUESTIONS ON THE TABLE ARE.

UM, BUT HOPEFULLY THERE WOULD BE A WAY TO, UH, DESIGN THINGS SUCH THAT IT, IT FELT MORE LIKE AN EXCHANGE OF VIEWPOINTS AS OPPOSED TO A SERIES OF SPEECHES.

AND THE MAIN REASON FOR DOING THAT IS, YOU KNOW, ULTIMATELY AT SOME POINT YOU'RE LIKELY TO HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING AT CITY COUNCIL OR, OR SOMETHING LIKE IT.

AND THAT'S REALLY, UH, SORT OF A RESERVED SPOT FOR, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE JUST TO COME UP TO THE MICROPHONE AND TAKE THEIR THREE MINUTES.

AND SO I JUST ENCOURAGE FOLKS NOT TO, TO REPLICATE THAT OR REINVENT THAT WHEEL, BUT INSTEAD TO CREATE SOMETHING THAT FEELS MORE INCLUSIVE AND, AND MORE, UM, MORE LIKE A DIALOGUE WHERE IT'S, IT'S LESS ABOUT PERSUADING OTHERS AND MORE JUST ABOUT, UM, HEARING EACH OTHER'S VIEWS AND, AND YOU ALL HEARING THOSE VIEWS.

THANK YOU FOR THAT.

DOES, DO ANY OF THE COMMISSIONERS HAVE ANY THOUGHTS OR FEEDBACK ON THE STRUCTURE OF THIS TOWN HALL, SPECIFICALLY ON FEBRUARY 8TH? SO, ARE WE OR NOT GOING TO ALLOW, UM, THE PUBLIC TO GIVE THEIR FEEDBACK EXCEPT BY VOTING ON THAT LIKERT SCALE? UH, THE LIKERT SCALE WAS ONE TOOL THAT WE WERE THINKING OF USING, BUT NOT EXCLUSIVELY.

SO THE IDEA WAS IN KIND OF DEVELOPING OUR QUESTIONS, WE WANNA START WITH QUESTIONS THAT ARE EASY, WHERE PEOPLE WILL GET ENGAGED

[00:45:01]

AND THEN WORK UP TO THE HARD QUESTIONS.

WE DON'T WANNA START WITH THE HARD QUESTIONS NECESSARILY, ALTHOUGH MAYBE PEOPLE WON'T HAVE AN ISSUE COMING UP TO THE MIC AND EXPRESSING THEIR OPINIONS ON THOSE.

BUT THE IDEA WAS NO.

SURE.

OH, YES, DR.

SCHOOLER, I'M SO SORRY.

I DIDN'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT YOU.

NO, GO AHEAD.

I, I JUST WANTED TO SHARE THAT, YOU KNOW, TO THE COMMISSIONER'S QUESTION, I, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE A MIX OF WAYS FOR PEOPLE TO RESPOND, IN PART BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE REALLY WON'T NECESSARILY HAVE THEIR THOUGHTS FORMULATED INTO KIND OF A DISCOURSE.

THEY'RE MORE JUST THERE TO KIND OF LEARN AND, AND GIVE, YOU KNOW, A BRIEF OPINION.

BUT THERE ARE GONNA BE THOSE FOLKS WHO HAVE SOMETHING MORE IN DEPTH TO SHARE.

AND SO THAT'S WHERE HAVING AN OPEN-ENDED DISCUSSION PROMPT WOULD BE REALLY NICE.

INSTEAD OF JUST, OKAY, NOW WE'LL TAKE ANY SPEAKERS.

IT'S, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS AROUND WHATEVER IT IS, SIGNATURE THRESHOLD, OR, YOU KNOW, HOW YOU GET ITEMS ON A BALLOT OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE.

AND ENCOURAGING PEOPLE NOT TO NECESSARILY COME TO A MIC SO MUCH AS, YOU KNOW, WELL, I'M LARRY AND I THINK THIS AND THAT, AND THEN THE NEXT PERSON SHARES SOME OF THEIR THOUGHTS AND MAYBE I'M ALLOWED TO RESPOND AT SOME POINT ONCE THAT PERSON IS FINISHED.

UM, BUT LESS OF SORT OF A, OKAY, IT'S YOUR TURN, YOU GET THREE MINUTES, WE'RE NOT GONNA INTERRUPT YOU.

THAT KIND OF THING.

YEAH.

UM, IF WE'RE GONNA LET PEOPLE HAVE THREE MINUTES, BECAUSE I DO THINK PEOPLE SHOW UP BECAUSE THEY'VE GOT SOMETHING TO SAY OFTENTIMES, SOMETIMES THEY JUST, IT COULD TAKE MORE THAN AN HOUR.

UM, AND I IMAGINE THIS, YOU KNOW, NICE SOFTWARE WHERE PEOPLE PUT IN THE CLICKER, WHETHER THEY'RE ONE TO 10, UM, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT THE CITY HAS THAT KIND OF, UM, OPTION AVAILABLE.

I THINK THERE'S POLL EVERYWHERE THAT YOU CAN DO WITH YOUR OWN PHONE, WHICH MIGHT BE KIND OF THAT.

CORRECT.

COOL.

AND IT SHOWS UP ON THE SCREEN HOW MANY VOTED EACH WAY.

UM, BUT I THINK WE SHOULD ALSO GIVE PAPER SURVEYS WHERE PEOPLE CAN HAVE LONGER COMMENTS THAN JUST THREE OR SEVEN OR HOWEVER THEY FEEL ABOUT A QUESTION.

, THAT'S, THAT'S NOT VERY DESCRIPTIVE, FOR SURE.

YEAH.

AND JUST TO THE, THE POLL EVERYWHERE PIECE, AND, AND PLEASE, YOU KNOW, KNOW THAT I'M, I'M PAID NOTHING.

I'M, I'M COMPENSATED IN NO WAY BY POLL EVERYWHERE OR THEM.

UH, BUT, UH, ME NEITHER POLL EVERYWHERE, , BUT POLL EVERYWHERE HAS, UM, DONE A REMARKABLE JOB OVER THE YEARS SINCE I FIRST GOT INTRODUCED TO THEM 15 OR 16 YEARS AGO OF DIVERSIFYING THE QUESTION TYPES.

SO NOT ONLY CAN YOU DO THE MULTIPLE CHOICE WHERE THE KIND OF BAR GRAPH POPULATES AS YOU GO, BUT YOU CAN ALSO DO A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT, UH, OPEN-ENDED TYPE QUESTIONS, YOU KNOW, INCLUDING, UM, YOU KNOW, GETTING PEOPLE TO THROW SUGGESTIONS UP AND THEN OTHERS CAN, YOU KNOW, THUMB UP A SUGGESTION THAT THEY, LIKE YOU CAN DO, UM, UH, RANKING OF A SET OF PRIORITIES YOU CAN DO, UH, JUST AN OPEN-ENDED QUESTION THAT IMMEDIATELY POPULATES AS A WORD CLOUD SO THAT YOU CAN JUST GET A SENSE FOR SOME OF THE TRENDING THEMES ACROSS THE ANSWERS.

AND I, I MENTIONED ALL OF THAT, NOT BECAUSE OF THE WHIZZBANG OF THE TECHNOLOGY, BUT JUST BECAUSE THERE'S, THERE'S A, A CERTAIN COMFORT FOR SOME PEOPLE IN THE ANONYMITY OF THAT.

UM, AND IT ALSO ALLOWS YOU TO SCALE AND GET MORE RESPONSES THAN YOU CAN JUST BY CALLING ON SUCCESSIVE PEOPLE.

SO THE COMBINATION, I THINK, IS USEFUL TO HAVE ALONGSIDE AN ANALOG OPTION BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE WILL JUST ISSUE THE TECHNOLOGY, UH, NO MATTER WHAT.

AND SOME PEOPLE DON'T LIKE TO SPEAK IN PUBLIC.

THAT'S RIGHT.

THAT'S RIGHT.

AND, AND SOMETIMES WHAT YOU HAVE IN THESE, IN THESE SETTINGS ARE PEOPLE WHO, UM, ARE PARTICULARLY OUTSPOKEN AND SORT OF MAKE IT APPEAR AS IF THEY ARE, UH, REPRESENTATIVE OF THE MAJORITY POINT OF VIEW, WHETHER THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, GOOD INTENTION, BAD INTENTION OR WHATNOT.

THEY, THEY ACT AS IF THEY ARE SPEAKING FOR, YOU KNOW, A LARGE POPULATION.

AND, AND PART OF WHAT POLL EVERYWHERE HELPS US TO DO IS REALLY TEST THAT, YOU KNOW, TO SEE HOW WIDESPREAD THAT PERSON'S POINT OF VIEW ACTUALLY IS.

THANK YOU.

COMMISSIONER ANO.

SURE.

DR.

SCHOOLER, THIS IS, UH, JULIO GONZALEZ.

ANO, HOPE YOU'RE DOING WELL, MY FRIEND.

HOW ARE YOU? I'M GOOD, SIR.

I'M GOOD, COMMISSIONER.

I'M SO GLAD YOU'RE HELPING US, LARRY.

UH, MY PLEASURE.

AND I WANT TO GO BACK INTO SOME OF YOUR GREATEST HITS.

UH, SO I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER THE, UH, THE AQUATICS, THE COMMUNITY AQUATICS FORUM, UH, AND THE, UH, 13, I THINK IT WAS 13, DECEMBER 13, UH, LIGHT RAIL DISCUSSION.

AND I THOUGHT THOSE, THOSE WERE TWO OF, UH, YOUR MASTERPIECES, UH, FROM YOUR TIME FACILITATING.

AND, UH, ONE OF THE, WHAT I LIKED ABOUT BOTH OF THEM IS THAT IT WAS NOT THE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE IN THE QUEUE WAITING TO DUMP THEIR THREE MINUTES AND JUST, UH, SAY THEIR PIECE, BUT RATHER, UH, YOU HAD A DIFFERENT SETS OF PEOPLE WITH EXPERTISE PROVIDING DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES.

AND THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT OF LIKE DELIBERATION.

I DON'T

[00:50:01]

KNOW IF IN THE RAIL ONE YOU DID BEFORE AND AFTER, UH, I, I HOLD, HOLD IT IN SUCH HIGH REGARD IN TERMS OF YOUR PAST WORK THAT I THINK YOU MIGHT HAVE, BUT MAYBE NOT.

UH, UH.

BUT I THINK BEING ABLE TO, UH, HELP PEOPLE HERE, DIFFERENT PIECES OF WHAT WE ARE DOING AND HOW WE ENDED UP WHERE WE MAY END UP AND THEN DOING LIKE HER, UH, MIGHT BE USEFUL.

I DO THINK THE INTERACTIVE EXERCISE FOR US IS PROBABLY BETTER THAN, AS YOU SAID, WHAT CITY COUNCIL'S GONNA GET, WHICH IS ACTIVE CITIZENS GIVING THEIR THREE MINUTES ON THINGS THAT THEY CARE A LOT ABOUT.

UM, SURE.

UH, ALSO THE TIME OF DAY, UH, BECAUSE OF THE CONSTRAINTS THAT WE HAVE.

I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I HOPE YOU WILL, UH, UH, PROVIDE, UH, GUIDANCE ON TO THE OUTREACH WORK GROUP IS HOW MUCH STUFF WE TRULY CAN GET THROUGH, UM, MM-HMM.

, BECAUSE ONE HOUR FEELS LIKE FIVE CONVERSATIONS TOPS.

YEAH.

FIVE, FIVE THREADS.

AND THERE MAY BE A FEW TOPICS THAT ARE HIGHLY SALIENT WHERE WE WANT TO GET THE CLICKERS GOING, AND SOME THAT ARE LESS MM-HMM.

.

UM, BUT I, I, I DO THINK THOSE ARE THE CONSTRAINTS THAT WE HAVE.

AND AGAIN, UH, VERY HAPPY THAT YOU ARE HELPING US OUT ON THIS.

OH, WELL THANK YOU MY FRIEND.

I, I, UH, AT SOME POINT WOULD LOVE TO REGALE THE COMMISSION WITH SOME OF THE WAYS THAT, UH, THAT JULIO AND I CROSSED PATHS OVER THE YEARS.

MY, MY FRIEND FROM WAY BACK.

UM, NO, I, I, I APPRECIATE YOUR, YOUR SENTIMENT AND I HADN'T REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF, UM, A DISCUSSION AS YOU PUT IT, A SORT OF A DELIBERATIVE DISCUSSION.

SO WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT IS, UH, YEARS AGO WHEN THE CITY WAS DOING AN AQUATICS ASSESSMENT, UH, THEY WANTED TO COLLECT PUBLIC INPUT.

AND PART OF WHAT WE REALIZED WAS, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE SO MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF USERS FOR CITY POOLS, UM, ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO DIDN'T LIVE NEAR ONE.

AND SO OUR, OUR PANEL INCLUDED, YOU KNOW, VERY, VERY ACTIVE SWIMMERS ALL THE WAY TO PEOPLE WHO DESPERATELY WANTED A POOL IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD AND DIDN'T, YOU KNOW, HAVE ONE AT ALL.

AND BY DOING THAT TO JULIO'S POINT, IT SORT OF HELPED SEED SOME COMMENTS FROM THE GENERAL PUBLIC ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW THEY MIGHT FEEL ABOUT SOMETHING.

THEY WOULD SORT OF HEAR A CONVERSATION AND THINK, OH, I WANNA RESPOND TO THAT, OR I WANT TO ADD SOME PERSPECTIVE TO WHAT I WAS HEARING.

SO THAT MIGHT BE APPLICABLE HERE.

IT WOULD BE, IT WOULD BE GREAT IF IT WERE, UM, THE OTHER THING THAT YOU WERE SAYING ABOUT AN HOUR, IT'S INTERESTING.

WHEN I DO THESE VIRTUALLY, I OFTEN DO, UM, KEEP IT TO AN HOUR.

UM, AND PART OF THE REASON IS THE FATIGUE THAT I THINK WE ALL FEEL WHEN WE'RE, UM, YOU KNOW, PARTICIPATING VIRTUALLY, WHETHER BY PHONE OR BY OR ON SCREEN.

AND SO A LOT OF TIMES I WILL INTRODUCE A TOPIC WITH A QUESTION THAT CAN BE ANSWERED IN A POLL STYLE FORMAT, AND THEN QUICKLY PIVOT TO MORE OF A DISCUSSION.

AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK SOME OF THIS WILL HAVE TO BE, UH, IMPROVISED IN THE SENSE THAT MAYBE YOU'RE GETTING A REALLY RICH CONVERSATION ON A PARTICULAR TOPIC.

AND SO IT JUST FEELS LIKE IT WOULD BE GOOD TO CARRY THAT FORWARD, EVEN IF IT MEANS YOU DON'T GET AS MUCH INPUT ON SOMETHING ELSE.

BUT IF YOU'VE PRELOADED SOME QUESTIONS THAT CAN BE AT LEAST QUICKLY GONE THROUGH, IF YOU'RE SHORT ON TIME, AT LEAST YOU COULD GET SOME INPUT ACROSS THAT FOUR OR FIVE TOPIC, UH, PORTFOLIO.

SO I THINK IT'S WORTH, YOU KNOW, KIND OF HAVING THOSE READY, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DEPLOY THEM ALL, BUT AT LEAST HAVING THEM READY SO THAT, UH, IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE NEEDING TO KIND OF MODIFY THE LENGTH YOU CAN.

THE ONE OTHER THING I WOULD JUST QUICKLY MENTION ABOUT WHAT JULIO WAS REFERENCING, THOSE TWO MEETINGS, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE REALLY, YOU KNOW, UH, PRIORITIZE DEPLOYING AS A AN INCLUSIONARY MEASURE WAS THE ABILITY FOR PEOPLE TO EITHER, UH, RSVP FOR THE MEETING, TO GET A PHONE CALL TO BE SORT OF CONTACTED AT THE TIME THE MEETING STARTED TO PARTICIPATE BY PHONE, UH, OR TO RSVP AND TO GET A CALL AT THE, UM, WELL, EXCUSE ME, OR, OR TO BE RANDOMLY CALLED.

SO WHAT WE WOULD DO IS WE WOULD DRAW FROM A LIST OF A FEW THOUSAND, UM, UH, NUMBERS IN PARTICULARLY AREAS WHERE WE PERCEIVE THERE TO BE LOWER INTERNET ACCESS AND JUST LOWER OVERALL, UH, TECHNOLOGY ACCESS TO WHERE PEOPLE HAD PHONES AND WE WOULD CALL OUT TO THEM.

SO THEY MIGHT JUST BE RANDOMLY, UM, GETTING A CALL, BUT CHOOSING TO PARTICIPATE.

AND THEN OTHER PEOPLE WOULD PROACTIVELY RSVP TO GET A CALL.

AND THAT MAY OR MAY NOT WORK AS WELL FOR A MIDDAY CROWD, BUT YOU NEVER KNOW.

I MEAN, IT MIGHT BE SOMETHING WORTH EXPLORING.

'CAUSE IT DID VERY MUCH DIVERSIFY THE KINDS OF PEOPLE THAT WERE PARTICIPATING BECAUSE SOME OF THEM WEREN'T SELF-SELECTING, IF YOU WILL, UH, TO, TO BE PART OF THE CONVERSATION UP FRONT.

SO I'M CURIOUS TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT.

COMMISSIONER ANO, SINCE YOU WERE AT SOUNDS LIKE AT SOME AMAZING, UH, COMMUNITY EVENTS AND YOU KNOW, OUR COMMISSION SO WELL AND THE ISSUES

[00:55:01]

THAT WE ARE KIND OF GRAPPLING WITH.

DO YOU HAVE AN IDEA IN MIND FOR THIS FIRST TOWN HALL OF SORT OF WHAT THE STRUCTURE WOULD BE? UM, WHO, YOU KNOW, AND MY QUE OBVIOUSLY WE, WE HAVE DR.

SCHOOLER AS A RESOURCE.

I HAVE NOT ASKED HIM TO FACILITATE THAT MEETING, AND I DON'T KNOW IF HE IS AVAILABLE OR WILLING TO, AND SO I THINK IT'S GONNA BE, AT LEAST AT THIS POINT UP TO OUR COMMISSION TO KIND OF FACILITATE THAT MEETING.

WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? DO WE HAVE DIFFERENT COMMISSIONERS LEAD DIFFERENT PIECES OF IT? UM, DO WE, I'M JUST CURIOUS TO GET YOUR THOUGHTS ON HOW WE STRUCTURE THIS, BECAUSE THIS IS OUR LAST MEETING BEFORE WE HAVE THE, THE TOWN HALL ON THE EIGHTH.

THANK YOU.

THE, THE TEMPLATE, UH, WHICH DR.

KOOR ALLUDED TO WAS, UH, A MIX OF MAYBE COMMISSIONER VOICES AND COMMUNITY VOICES.

IF I WERE TO GUESS, I FEEL THAT ARE THE TOPICS THAT HAVE THE MOST, UM, ABSENCE OF CONSENSUS AT THIS MOMENT WOULD BE THE PETITION THRESHOLD.

AND IF THERE SHOULD BE ONE, SHOULD WE MOVE IT FROM THE 20 K, UH, AND MAYBE SOME OF THE OTHER REQUIREMENTS, UH, AROUND MOVING TO NOVEMBER MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTIONS PERHAPS.

I DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE AN ABSENCE OF CONSENSUS.

I THINK THE COMMUNITY MIGHT WANNA UNDERSTAND WHY WE'RE SAYING WE'RE GOING TO MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT SLOWER TO GET ON THE BALLOT.

PERHAPS SOME OF THE RECALL TOPICS OR THE RECALL TOPIC OR SOME OF THOSE ASPECTS OF THAT, UH, SET OF DISCUSSIONS WE'VE HAD.

UH, AND SO THE, IF WE WERE TO USE COMMUNITY VOICES TO FILL IN THE DISCUSSION, IT WOULD BE MAYBE SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE COME AND, AND SPOKEN PLUS COMMISSIONERS SO THAT FOLKS GET A SET OF PERSPECTIVES.

UM, AND THEN THE, THE, THE SECOND PART, WHICH WAS I WAS REFERENCING SORT OF WITH THE, UM, WITH THE RAIL DISCUSSION IS IT WAS A, A COMPLICATED DISCUSSION AND THERE WAS AN ATTEMPT AT GETTING MORE PEOPLE ENGAGED, UH, TO GET A BROADER SET OF PERSPECTIVES.

I DON'T KNOW IF WE ARE IN A LOGISTICAL PLACE TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT.

UH, AT LEAST WE START WITH THE UNIVERSE OF FOLKS WE, UH, COMMUNICATED WITH FOR OUR SURVEY.

BUT TRYING TO GET, UM, THOSE FOLKS WHO MAY HAVE THOUGHT A LOT ABOUT PETITION THRESHOLD BUT NOT RECALL OR MIGHT BE SURPRISED THAT WE'RE THINKING ABOUT MUNICIPAL GENERAL ELECTION, UH, AND, AND GETTING THEM