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[CALL TO ORDER]

[00:00:04]

WE'RE GONNA GET STARTED.

UM, GONNA START WITH ROLE.

SO, VICE CHAIR MINORS.

COMMISSIONER CARROLL PRESENT.

COMMISSIONER GILLES PRESENT.

COMMISSIONER HOWARD.

COMMISSIONER LADNER.

PRESENT, UH, COMM COMMISSIONER LEE.

UH, COMMISSIONER LUKINS PRESENT.

COMMISSIONER MCKINNEY.

PRESENT.

UH, COMMISSIONER WALLACE PRESENT.

AND COMMISSIONER WI STRUCK PRESENT.

ALL RIGHT.

UM, ANY PUBLIC COMMUNICATION TODAY? CHAIR.

THERE IS NO PUBLIC COMMUNICATION TODAY.

ALRIGHT.

SO WE WILL GO TO

[APPROVAL OF MINUTES]

THE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM OUR MEETING ON APRIL 22ND.

UM, IS THERE A MOTION ON THE TABLE? MOTION TO APPROVE THE MEETING MINUTES.

ALRIGHT, IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND.

ALL RIGHT.

ALL IN FAVOR? ANY OPPOSED? JUST FOR THE RECORD.

CAROL, DO YOU'RE ABSTAINING.

I'M SORRY.

I, I, I SEE MY NAME LISTED, BUT I WASN'T AT THE LAST MEETING.

OH, ON, ON THE ACTION ITEMS. GET THAT OPENED.

IT, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S ON ALL OF THEM.

WELL, IT'S, YEAH, THAT, UM, COMMISSIONER CARROLL, COMMISSIONER LADNER, COMMISSIONER LUKINS WERE ABSENT.

IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO? OH, OKAY.

I SEE NOW.

THANKS FOR CLARIFYING.

ABSOLUTELY.

SO YOU'RE ABSTAINING FROM THE VOTE? YEAH, UNLESS YOU NEED ME TO APPROVE 'EM.

NO, THAT'S FINE.

JUST FOR THE RECORD.

ALL RIGHT.

MOTION PASSES.

OKAY.

[2. Select a representative to serve on the Downtown Commission per City Code § 2-1-140.]

SO WE ARE STILL LOOKING FOR A REPRESENTATIVE TO REPRESENT THE, UH, FOR THE REPRESENTATIVE DESIGN COMMISSION FOR THE DOWNTOWN COMMISSION.

UM, IT'S WRITTEN IN THEIR BYLAWS THAT THEY REQUIRE THIS.

UM, AND SO JUST OFF THE CUFF, HAS ANYBODY HAD A CHANGE OF HEART AND INTERESTED IN JOINING THE DOWNTOWN COMMISSION CHAIR? AT LAST, UH, MONTH'S MEETING, I ASKED THE QUESTION IF MY UNDERSTANDING WAS COMMISSIONER CARROLL IS ALREADY A VOTING MEMBER OF THAT COMMISSION.

IS THAT CORRECT? YES.

UH, THIS JUST IN, UH, I WAS JUST RECENTLY APPOINTED TO THE DOWNTOWN COMMISSION.

DON'T ASK ME WHY, BUT YES, I'M A I'M A FULL VOTING MEMBER ALREADY.

IS IT, IS IT POSSIBLE THEN UNDER OUR BYLAWS TO HAVE COMMISSIONER CARROLL WHO'S ALREADY PRESENT TO THOSE MEETINGS, SIMPLY GIVE US AN UPDATE AS THE REPRESENTATIVE IF YOU WERE WILLING TO DO SO? I AM UNSURE.

UM, I AM UN UNSURE AS WELL, SO WE WOULD HAVE TO ASK THE CITY CLERK'S OFFICE.

UM, YEAH.

AND CHAIR, JUST TO ADD, I HAD, THAT DID COME UP AT THE LAST MEETING, AND THEN I, I LOOKED IT UP AND I DIDN'T SEE DAVID CARROLL'S NAME ON THERE, AND SO I DIDN'T END UP ASKING THE CITY CLERK'S OFFICE.

UM, I DIDN'T REALIZE IT WAS FRESH, FRESH NEWS, BUT WE'LL ASK AND FOLLOW UP.

OKAY.

ALL RIGHT.

SO WE WILL JUMP

[4. Update from the representative of the Joint Sustainability Committee regarding the meeting on April 24, 2024 and April 30, 2024.]

TO OUR WORKING GROUP COMMITTEE UPDATES.

UM, I'M GONNA JUMP AHEAD JUST BECAUSE, UH, WE'RE GONNA SPEND A LOT OF TIME ON THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES TODAY.

SO JUST TO, JUST AS AN UPDATE ON THE JOINT SUSTAINABILITY COMMITTEE, UM, WE HAD A, UM, A, UH, SPECIAL SESSION CALLED FOR APRIL ON APRIL 30TH.

UM, SO WE VOTED, UH, UH, FOR RESOLUTION FOR REC, WAS RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT, UM, INVESTMENT PLAN OR ENVIRONMENTAL INVESTMENT

[00:05:01]

PLAN.

UM, I AM, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY, HOW MANY, UH, ITEMS WE VOTED ON, BUT, UM, NOW IT'S GONNA BE PACKAGED UP AND GO TO COUNCIL FOR THEIR RECOMMENDATION, I BELIEVE, ON THE 21ST.

UM, BUT IT SHOULD BE POSTED ON THEIR WEBSITE, IF Y'ALL LIKE TO READ THROUGH IT.

UH, THERE'S QUITE A BIT AS IT PERTAINS TO THE CLIMATE EQUITY PLAN AND A, A LOT OF THE OTHER PLANS AS WELL, SO AS IT PERTAINS TO SUSTAINABILITY.

UM, ALRIGHT, SO

[3. Update from the Urban Design Guidelines Working Group regarding the meeting on May 10, 2024.]

ON THE URBAN DESIGN WORKING GROUP, UH, COMMISSIONER CARROLL, UH, THANKS FOR THE BACKUP.

UM, YEAH, WE'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THESE, AND I KNOW WE HAD SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW WE GOT HERE, SOME OF THE SHARED VISION AND SOME OF THE THINGS I THINK HE HAD PRESENTED ON IT BEFORE IN THAT LAST MEETING ABOUT THE, UM, UH, THE GOALS AND THE VISION.

UM, AND ALSO, I GUESS, YEAH, HOW DO, HOW DO WE GET TO WHERE WE ARE TODAY? COMMISSIONER CARROLL? OKAY, THANK YOU, CHAIR.

SO THE, THE BACKUP THAT YOU SEE IS ESSENTIALLY A TABLE OF CONTENTS FOR THE NEW GUIDELINES, UH, WITH SOME ANNOTATIONS, UM, SINCE IT'S A WORKING, A WORKING DOCUMENT WHERE THE GROUP IS USING THOSE TO, UM, YOU KNOW, CONTINUE.

BUT YOU CAN SEE, AS I MENTIONED PREVIOUSLY, THERE'S NO LONGER, UH, BUILDINGS, OPEN SPACE, UM, AREA WIDE GUIDELINES.

IT'S GROUPED BY CORE PRINCIPLES.

UM, AND THEN UNDER THOSE PRINCIPLES ARE GUIDELINES THAT SUPPORT THOSE PRINCIPLES.

AND THEY COULD BE GUIDELINES THAT PERTAIN TO THE BUILDING OR THE RIGHT OF WAY, THE STREETS SCAPE, UM, WHATEVER, UH, SUPPORTS THOSE PRINCIPLES.

SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE NEW, UM, ORGANIZATION.

UM, ALL IN ALL, IT'S A FEW MORE GUIDELINES THAN EXIST TODAY.

I THINK SOMETHING LIKE 10 MORE THAN EXIST TODAY.

UM, AND THEN AT THE END OF THIS DOCUMENT, THERE'S A, AGAIN, A WORKING DRAFT OF LIKE WHAT THE GUIDELINES, UH, THE FORMAT OF THE ACTUAL GUIDELINE WOULD LOOK LIKE WITH A DESCRIPTION, WITH A PRIORITY.

AND THAT, UM, ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE DOING IS WE'RE GOING TO SAY SOME OF THESE GUIDELINES ARE REQUIRED PREREQUISITES, THAT ALL PROJECTS MUST MEET THOSE GUIDELINES, AND THEN OTHERS WILL BE OPTIONAL.

UM, WE ALSO HAVE AN APPLICABILITY PIECE ON EACH GUIDELINE TO MAKE IT CLEAR TO WHICH PROJECT TYPES, EACH GUIDELINES OF THESE GUIDELINES APPLY TO.

UM, AND THEN THE VALUES SECTION, THOSE ARE THE VALUES THAT, UM, THE ORIGINAL GROUP CAME UP WITH THAT, UM, ALL OF THESE GUIDELINES THAT THEY'RE USED AS A LENS, UM, THAT THESE GUIDELINES MUST SUPPORT THOSE VALUES THAT CAME FROM THE, UM, ORIGINAL PLAN.

AND THEN THERE'S AN INTENT, INTENT FOR EACH GUIDELINES.

THERE'S CONDITIONS FOR EACH GUIDELINE.

AND THE IDEA OF THOSE CONDITIONS ARE THAT, UM, WE COULD SPECIFY, UM, I GUESS EXACT REQUIREMENTS.

SO FOR INSTANCE, IF, UM, IF YOU SAY, OH, BUILD TO THE STREET, THEN WE WOULD SAY AN EXACT PERCENTAGE OF THE BUILDING FACADE THAT NEEDS TO BE AT THE STREET TO MEET THAT GUIDELINE.

SO THAT'S AN ATTEMPT TO REDUCE THE GRAY AREA.

WHEN WE SEE APPLICANTS COME IN AND SAY, WELL, I COMPLY WITH THESE GUIDELINES, AND WE SAY, NO, YOU DON'T.

AND SO IF YOU HAVE SOME TYPE OF MEASUREMENT, UM, YOU KNOW, THEN THERE'S LESS INTERPRETATION.

IT'S TO MAKE IT MORE CLEAR AND MORE PREDICTABLE, UM, AS WELL AS EX EXAMPLES, UM, OF EACH GUIDELINE.

SO THERE'S A LOT OF INFORMATION IN EACH OF THE INDIVIDUAL GUIDELINES, IT'S GONNA BE

[00:10:01]

PROVIDED AS WELL.

UM, SORRY TO INTERRUPT HERE, BUT APPARENTLY WE'RE HAVING TROUBLE HEARING YOU ON THE MICROPHONE.

UM, TESTING.

TESTING, .

DO I NEED TO START ALL OVER? ? UH, SO THAT'S HIGH LEVEL.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU NEED TO STEP BACK AND TALK ABOUT BEFORE THIS AND THE PLAN AND ALL OF THAT.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A, THIS IS A LOT TO DIGEST HERE, SO, UM, IT'S GREAT TO SEE IT.

BUT YEAH, I THINK, I THINK TAKING A STEP BACK AND UNDERSTANDING THOSE GUIDE OR THOSE GOALS AND VISION STATEMENTS, UM, AND TALK ABOUT THE ORIGIN OF THOSE AND HOW THOSE WERE CREATED, WHERE THOSE WERE PART, I I'M ASSUMING WERE PART OF THE ORIGINAL WORKING GROUP, UM, PART OF THEIR TASK BEFORE THEY DOVE INTO THOSE FIVE AREAS.

YES.

SO THOSE, THOSE VALUES THAT WERE CREATED WERE, UM, USED.

THEY WERE, THEY WERE CREATED BY THE ORIGINAL, UM, WORKING GROUP WHEN WE CREATED THE PLAN.

AND THE IDEA WAS THAT THEN WE CREATED WHAT WE CALLED AN EVALUATION TOOL, UM, AND THAT ALL OF THE GUIDELINES THAT YOU SEE HERE, UH, SUPPORT THOSE VALUES.

AND THEY MAY NOT SUPPORT EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE VALUES, BUT THE IDEA IS THAT THEY EITHER, UM, THEY EITHER SUPPORT THEM OR HAVE A NEUTRAL EFFECT ON THEM, UM, AS OPPOSED TO SORT OF UNDERMINING THOSE VALUES.

SO THOSE WERE KIND OF IN THE BACKGROUND DRIVING THIS, THIS, UH, PROCESS AS WELL.

AND, UM, WE ACTUALLY CREATED THAT VALUATION TOOL.

I THINK MANY OF YOU HAVE SEEN THAT, UM, THE GUIDELINES WERE PUT THROUGH THOSE, THAT TOOL TO BE SCORED BASED ON THOSE VALUES.

SO THAT WAS ALL CREATED.

UM, AND THE PLAN, THE, THE ORIGINAL PLAN THAT EVERYONE HAS SEEN WAS ADOPTED BY COUNCIL, GOSH, I DON'T KNOW, A YEAR AND A HALF AGO OR TWO YEARS AGO.

IT'S BEEN A WHILE.

UM, AND SO THAT'S BEEN THE DOCUMENT DRIVING THIS PROCESS.

AND THEN THERE'S THE, UM, ENGAGEMENT PIECE, THE ENGAGEMENT PLAN THAT SOPHIA HAS PUT TOGETHER AS WELL.

SO ON THE, THE DOCUMENT THAT YOU HAD PRESENTED IN OUR MARCH MEETING, UM, THESE ADOPTED PRIORITIES, UM, THESE ARE WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO, RIGHT? YES.

WE, I THINK WE'VE CHANGED THEM TO CALL 'EM VALUES.

OKAY.

BUT THAT'S THE CLIMATE AND MOBILITY AND YEAH.

EQUITY.

UM, AND SO EACH GUIDELINE AND, AND IN THE TEXT WE'LL REFER BACK TO WHICH ONES OF THOSE THAT IT SUPPORTS.

ALL RIGHT.

IS THERE A WAY TO PULL THESE UP ON THE SCREEN FROM MARCH? I, UM, YES.

I CAN UPLOAD IT.

JUST GIMME ONE SECOND.

AND THIS IS THE OLDER FORMAT, RIGHT? COMMISSIONER CARROLL WITH THE FIVE DIFFERENT YEAH.

GROUPS, ADVISORY GROUPS.

UH, THERE'S, UH, YEAH, I'VE DONE A LOT OF WORK.

IT'S BEEN A TON OF WORK.

AND WE HAVE 10 TONS LEFT TO DO , BUT THIS IS A HUGE MILESTONE, UH, TO HAVE THIS PIECE ESSENTIALLY COMPLETED.

YEAH, THIS IS, THIS IS GREAT.

THANK YOU FOR, AND THEN IT'S A LOT OF INFORMATION.

MOST EVERYONE'S, WELL, THEY ARE SEEING THIS FOR THE FIRST TIME, 'CAUSE I JUST SENT IT THIS MORNING.

BUT, UM, THIS WON'T BE THE ONLY TIME THAT YOU CAN COMMENT ON IT.

I MEAN, YOU CAN SEND US COMMENTS OF COURSE AT ANY TIME, BUT WE'LL BE, UM, DOING MORE CHECK-INS WITH THE COMMISSION, WITH THE FULL COMMISSION AS WELL AS, YOU KNOW, BRINGING THE FIRST DRAFT TO THE COMMISSION AS WELL.

SO THERE'LL BE LOTS OF OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE INPUT.

[00:15:01]

CAN I ASK A QUESTION? ABSOLUTELY.

GREAT.

UH, THANKS.

YEAH, THIS IS AWESOME.

IT'S SEEMS REALLY CLEAR JUST AT A FIRST PASS.

SO WHAT IS THE EXPECTATION OF TONIGHT'S MEETING? DO YOU WANT US TO COMMENT LIVE OR DO WE TAKE THIS AS HOMEWORK AND SEND YOU BACK COMMENTS ON JUST ANY QUESTIONS WE HAVE? HOPEFULLY THE LIVE.

UM, I THINK, YOU KNOW, I THINK HAVING DISCUSSIONS TONIGHT IS, IS A, IT'S A GOOD OPPORTUNITY FOR THAT, BUT IT WOULD ALSO BE APPRECIATED IF YOU COULD DOCUMENT ANY INPUT AND SEND THAT TO US SO WE CAN COLLECT ALL OF THAT AND ADDRESS IT AND JUST HAVE IT DOCUMENTED.

SO I DON'T HAVE TO GO BACK AND WATCH ALL THESE VIDEOS , BUT HAPPY TO HAVE DIALOGUE TONIGHT ABOUT ANY OF THIS.

COMMISSIONER .

UH, SIMPLY TO ADD, TO ADD TO THAT, UM, APOLOGIES, I WAS NOT AT THE MARCH MEETING, SO THIS MIGHT HAVE ALREADY BEEN COVERED, BUT THESE GUIDELINES THAT YOU'RE SEEING TODAY ARE EFFECTIVELY THE DISTILLATION OF THE, OF THE WORKING GROUP.

THE WORKING GROUPS WERE UNDER THE OLD STRUCTURE OF BUILDINGS, OPEN SPACE AND SO ON.

WE REALLY FELT THAT THAT WAS NOT SERVING AS WELL STRUCTURALLY.

SO THERE WAS THE, UM, REBUILDING OF THE, THE STRUCTURE TO MAKE THIS MORE OF A USER-FRIENDLY DOCUMENT AND TO GIVE US AS COMMISSIONERS MORE CLARITY ON HOW TO SCORE.

UM, BUT THOSE GUIDELINES DID COME DIRECTLY FROM THE PREVIOUS DRAFT, UH, OF THOSE WORKING GROUPS.

SO THERE WAS A LOT OF DISTILLING THOSE, THERE WAS A LOT OF CULLING OUT, UM, REDUNDANT ONES THAT POPPED UP, YOU KNOW, IN OPEN SPACE AND IN BUILDING.

UM, SO THAT, YOU KNOW, THOSE OF YOU WHO PARTICIPATE IN THE WORKING GROUP SHOULD SEE THAT WORK, UM, IN THIS DRAFT.

AND I THINK SPEAKING AS, UH, SOMEONE ON THIS WORKING GROUP, UH, WE'RE FEELING PRETTY GOOD THAT WE'VE, WE'VE GOTTEN THAT THE DISTILLATION OF GUIDELINES TO THE PROPER PLACE, UM, IT'S POSSIBLE THAT WE, THAT THERE ARE SOME MISSING OR SOME THAT COULD BE FURTHER CONSOLIDATED.

I THINK THAT WOULD BE REALLY GREAT FEEDBACK AS YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, AS, AS YOU'RE LOOKING THROUGH THIS DRAFT, BECAUSE WE ARE GONNA NEED TO FLESH OUT, UM, EACH INDIVIDUAL GUIDELINE NEXT.

BUT, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, LOOKING OVER THE GUIDELINES FOR, YOU KNOW, DID WE MISS ANYTHING? UM, IS ANY OF THE INTENT UNCLEAR OR ARE THERE, UM, GUIDELINES YOU FEEL ARE, ARE REDUNDANT OR DUPLICATIVE WOULD BE REALLY GREAT FEEDBACK FROM THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS.

UH, AND I WOULD ADD TO THAT, IF THERE IS ANY INFORMATION YOU THINK NEEDS TO BE PROVIDED IN THE ACTUAL, UM, GUIDELINE LANGUAGE ITSELF, YOU KNOW, I WENT OVER THE FORMAT OF ALL THE ITEMS THAT WE'RE PROVIDING, BUT IF YOU THINK THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE THAT WE'RE MISSING THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL, THAT THAT WOULD BE, UM, REALLY BENEFICIAL TO THE PROCESSES AS WELL.

BECAUSE AGAIN, ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE GOALS OF THIS WHOLE UPDATE IS TO MAKE THE DOCUMENT, UM, EASIER TO USE AND JUST A MORE PREDICTABLE PROCESS FOR APPLICANTS.

I AGREE.

AND I THINK IF ANYBODY, UH, HAS ANY COMMENTS I'VE GOT, I'M READY TO TAKE SOME NOTES IN CASE, UH, SO THAT WE CAN HAVE A GOOD DISCUSSION TODAY.

UM, AS MENTIONED EARLIER, THIS IS REALLY THE, THE MAIN THING ON OUR AGENDA TODAY IS TO DISCUSS THIS.

SO WE'VE GOT TIME.

UM, BUT I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF INFORMATION HERE.

UM, DO WE WANT TO GO THROUGH ANY OF THESE OR IS THAT GONNA GET TOO SPECIFIC? KNOWING THAT WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE GONNA PROBABLY DIG IN A LITTLE MORE AS, AS WE HIT THESE NEXT COUPLE MONTHS, UM, AND, AND KIND OF AS Y'ALL ALSO FINE TUNE IT AND, AND KEEP PRODUCING, UH, MORE CONTENT ON THIS.

UM, WHAT DO Y'ALL THINK? DO Y'ALL, DO Y'ALL, WOULD, WOULD Y'ALL LIKE TO GO THROUGH THIS AS, YOU KNOW, CPA, UH, CPB OR WE HAVE TIME AND WE HAVE T SO , IF I MAY, COMMISSIONER? YES.

CHAIR.

SORRY.

UM, COMMISSIONER CARROLL, YOU HAD MENTIONED, UM, ANYTHING THAT WE COULD SEE POTENTIALLY ADDED HERE THAT WE HAVE NOT YET SEEN.

SO BETWEEN THIS AND THE MARCH DRAFT, I AM CURIOUS, UM, IF THERE WILL BE AN OPPORTUNITY TO, TO SEE A,

[00:20:01]

UM, VERBIAGE FOR, YOU KNOW, WHAT I IMAGINE COULD BE THE INTRODUCTORY CHAPTER THAT BRIDGES THE PREVIOUS VERSIONS OF THE DESIGN GUIDELINES TO THIS VERSION OUTLINING THE NEED FOR THE SHIFT AWAY FROM, UM, THE PREVIOUS STRUCTURE IN PARTICULAR, YOU KNOW, MOVING MORE TOWARDS THE VALUE-BASED SYSTEM, UM, AND ALSO, UH, ADDRESSING POTENTIALLY WHAT YOU TOUCHED ON, WHICH SEEMS TO BE, UM, THE NEED FOR MORE CLARITY AND, AND DIRECT, UM, PATHS TO IMPLEMENTATION BY INTRODUCING WHAT, WHAT SEEMS TO BE PERHAPS SOME MORE PRESCRIPTIVE AND, AND DIRECTLY MEASURABLE, UM, BENCHMARKS, IF YOU WILL.

WHERE BEFORE WE HAD MORE, UM, SUGGESTIONS AND, AND IT SEEMS AS THOUGH, UM, THAT A PARAGRAPH OR WHATEVER THAT'S GOING TO BECOME WILL BE EXTREMELY IMPORTANT IN TERMS OF COMMUNICATING THE CHANGE, UM, LEADING INTO THE NEW INFORMATION, WHICH AS YOU'VE PRESENTED IT NOW, I AGREE, SEEMS VERY CLEAR AND, AND HELPFUL AND, AND WAY MORE CONCISE AND, AND EASY TO IMPLEMENT.

BUT IT DOES STRIKE ME AS THOUGH, UM, IN THIS PATH TO, UM, ADOPTION, WE, WE CERTAINLY NEED TO REVIEW HOW WE WILL PRESENT THIS AS A NEW CHANGE.

SURE.

SO THE, THE SHORT ANSWER IS, UM, YES, WE WILL, THERE WILL BE AN INTRODUCTION PIECE.

IT'S NOT, UH, COMPLETED YET, BUT WE WILL BRING THAT TO THE COMMISSION FOR REVIEW AND COMMENT.

THE, UH, ADOPTED PLAN DOES HAVE QUITE A BIT OF EXPLANATION ALREADY IN IT OF WHY, WHY THIS IS A NECESSARY TASK, UM, WHAT THE GOALS ARE OF THIS TASK.

AND SO WE'LL PROBABLY BORROW SOME LANGUAGE FROM THAT TO GO INTO THE INTRODUCTION.

UM, BUT, BUT WE DON'T HAVE THAT COMPLETED YET.

WE'VE BEEN FOCUSING ON THESE, BUT THE, THE FIRST DRAFT, UH, WE'LL CERTAINLY HAVE IT AND, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'LL PROBABLY, PROBABLY BE ABLE TO BRING THE INTRODUCTION TO THE COMMISSION BEFORE THE FIRST DRAFT'S EVEN COMPLETED, IS MY GUESS, SEE WHY NOT.

UM, BUT WE JUST DON'T HAVE IT RIGHT NOW.

BUT I AGREE IT'S VERY IMPORTANT, UM, TO SET THE STAGE AND ESPECIALLY I THINK AS IT TIES INTO THE COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT, UM, PIECE OF IT.

UH, QUESTION COMMISSIONER.

YEAH, THANK YOU.

UH, I, Y'ALL HAVE PROBABLY ALREADY CLARIFIED THIS.

HOW DOES GREAT STREETS FOLD INTO THIS? JUST LOOKING AT SOME OF THE MEASURABLE SUGGESTIONS.

I JUST, SO THE SHORT ANSWER YOU COULD SAY IS THAT GREAT STREETS DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS.

HOWEVER, UM, CURRENTLY WHAT THEY DO HAVE IN COMMON IS THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES AND GREAT STREETS ARE BOTH REQUIREMENTS OF THE DOWNTOWN DENSITY BONUS PROGRAM.

UH, BUT THE IDEA, AND ONE AGAIN, ONE OF THE GOALS THAT AS SHOWN IN THE PLAN THAT, UH, UM, WAS THAT THESE GUIDELINES WOULD BE WRITTEN IN A WAY THAT THEY COULD BE APPLICABLE OUTSIDE OF THE CBD AND OTHER URBAN AREAS OF TOWN WHERE GREAT STREETS IS NOT REQUIRED.

UM, AND SO IN THAT WAY, THESE GUIDELINES, UM, DO ADDRESS SOME OF THOSE THINGS THAT GREAT STREETS ALSO ADDRESSES, UM, WHILE TRYING NOT TO CONFLICT WITH, WITH THOSE THINGS CONFLICT.

YEAH.

AND YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHERE WE'RE REALLY GONNA LEAN ON STAFF TO HELP US TO, SO WHEN WE GET THE FIRST DRAFT, UM, THAT'S GOING TO BE SENT TO DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS WITHIN THE CITY, UM, FOR THEIR REVIEW.

AND SO WE HOPE THEY'LL BE ABLE TO CATCH, HELP US CATCH ANYTHING IF THERE IS SOME CONFLICTING, UH, LANGUAGE IN, IN THE DRAFT THAT, THAT, UH, CONFLICTS WITH ANY ADOPTED POLICIES OR CODES TODAY.

SO IS, IS THAT BEFORE OR AFTER PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT, OR IS THAT PART OF THE PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT? YEAH, THAT IS ESSENTIALLY THE PHASE TWO PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT

[00:25:01]

IS THE TECHNICAL STAKEHOLDERS, AND THAT'S LARGELY CITY STAFF.

UM, SO LOOKING BACK AT THE CALENDAR, WE'RE SUPPOSED TO GO INTO THAT PHASE IN SEPTEMBER, IS THAT CORRECT? UH, WE ARE IN THAT PHASE RIGHT NOW.

WELL, I'M AT THE, THE, UH, PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT PART, THE TECHNICAL ENGAGEMENT, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT, YEAH, THE TIMELINE IS KIND OF NOW UNTIL THE END OF FALL, BASICALLY.

AND SO THE IDEA IS WHEN THE COMMISSIONERS HAVE A, A DRAFT, YOU KNOW, WHEN, WHEN THE COMMISSION WANTS TO SHARE THE DRAFT, THEN AT THAT POINT I WILL HELP CIRCULATE IT TO DIFFERENT CITY STAFF AND OUTSIDE AGENCIES.

YOU KNOW, IF WE WANNA HAVE THAT DISCUSSION WITH LIKE CAT METRO OR, UM, OTHER KIND OF THE TECHNICAL, AGAIN, TECHNICAL FOCUS GROUPS.

AND THERE'S GONNA BE, I'M SURE A LOT OF BACK AND FORTH ABOUT DIFFERENT EDITS.

I THINK WHEN THERE'S DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS TO HAVE, IT COULD BE INTERESTING TO HAVE PRESENTATIONS AT DESIGN COMMISSION TO WORK THROUGH THAT IF THERE'S ANYTHING SPECIFIC THAT COMES UP.

SO I DO WANNA LEAVE A LOT OF TIME FOR THAT SO THAT WE CAN LIKE REALLY UTILIZE THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES TO, I, I MEAN THIS WOULD BE A LOFTY GOAL TO RESOLVE A LOT OF THE ISSUES THAT WE SEE ALL THE TIME IN, IN THIS KIND OF SPECIFIC REALM, RIGHT? LIKE RIGHT WHERE PRIVATE MEETS PUBLIC, UM, AS WE KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF, A LOT OF STAKES IN THAT SPACE.

UM, BUT IF WE CAN USE THAT AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO, TO TRY TO ILLUMINATE SOME OF THOSE ISSUES AND CREATE SOME RESOLVE, THAT WOULD BE, THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

BUT EITHER WAY THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT OF BACK AND FORTH, UM, I THINK NOT ONLY BETWEEN MYSELF AND OTHER CITY STAFF, BUT YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY BETWEEN THE COMMISSION AND THAT COULD BE VIA THE WORKING GROUP ON CERTAIN ISSUES, CERTAIN STICKING POINTS.

AND, AND LIKE COMMISSIONER CARROLL SAID, UM, I'M DEFINITELY GOING TO BE PROBABLY THE MAIN PERSON AS, AS CITY STAFF THAT'S GONNA BE REVIEWING IT FOR ANY CONFLICT WITH OTHER PLANS OR ANY KIND OF REDUNDANCY, ANYTHING THAT MIGHT SEEM OUTSIDE OF THE SCOPE.

AND SO THAT, THAT CONVERSATION IS JUST KIND OF LIKE ON THE CUSP, BUT WE'RE WAITING TO HAVE IT WHEN, WHEN WE HAVE, UH, A DOCUMENT THAT, THAT WE FEEL LIKE GETTING INTO IT, GETTING INTO IT ON.

SO THAT DRAFT, I KNOW I HAVE IN MY HEAD ABOUT SEPTEMBER OF THIS YEAR.

AND SO THAT'S WHEN WE'RE LOOKING TO HAVE THAT FIRST DRAFT, UH, READY.

RIGHT? IS THAT RIGHT, COMMISSIONER CROW? YEAH, WE'D LIKE TO HAVE IT DONE BY AUGUST, BUT AS WE SAID, THERE'S 10 TONS OF WORK TO DO.

SO WE'LL SEE HOW IT GOES.

CHAIR, I APPRECIATE THE COMMENTS FROM COMMISSIONER LADNER.

ANY QUESTIONS? UM, JUST AS A, A CLARIFICATION, IF ANYONE'S WONDERING THE ORDER OF THE, UM, UH, THE CPS IN THIS DRAFT DOCUMENT IS SORT OF, AS WE WROTE IT DOWN, THERE'S NOT A ASSIGNED HIERARCHY YET.

SO THE ORGAN, THE ACTUAL ORGANIZATION OF THOSE IS ON THE TABLE FOR DISCUSSION AND COMMENT.

UM, JUST IN CASE YOU'RE WONDERING WHY THEY'RE ORDERED THE WAY THEY ARE, IT IS SIMPLY 'CAUSE WE WROTE IT DOWN IN THAT ORDER.

QUESTION.

COMMISSIONER LADNER, THANKS.

UM, HAVE ANY THOUGHTS BEEN PUT INTO THE PRE-REQS YET, OR IS THAT SOMETHING, I GUESS THAT HAS TO GO THROUGH A PRETTY SERIOUS PROCESS? THIS IS A SERIOUS PROCESS? UM, TO, TO SOME EXTENT, YES.

AS, AS WE WERE ORGANIZING THESE, UM, WE WERE DISCUSSING THAT ON SOME OF THEM AND, UM, ESPECIALLY BASED ON PAST EXPERIENCE OF PROJECTS THAT WE'VE SEEN AND COMMENTS THAT COMMISSIONERS HAVE MADE OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT FLOAT TO THE TOP THAT WERE LIKE, WELL, THESE NEED TO BE THE, THE PREREQUISITE ONES.

UM, BUT, UH, BUT TO REALLY, TO, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION THAT WE HAVEN'T IDENTIFIED ALL OF THEM YET.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? I FEEL LIKE WE'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO REALLY KIND OF GO INTO THIS.

SO, UM, I THINK, I THINK, UM, I THINK MAYBE WE SHOULD JUST KIND OF DIG IN AND JUST LOOK AND, YOU

[00:30:01]

KNOW, LET'S GO FOR, UH, THE CPA AND JUST LOOK AT IT TOGETHER AND KIND OF SEE WHERE THAT GOES.

IF WE WANT TO GO INTO HOW DEEP WE WANT TO GO INTO THIS RIGHT NOW.

BUT I THINK IT'S A GOOD OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO, SINCE WE'RE ALL HERE.

OKAY.

I HAVE A QUESTION.

ALRIGHT, COMMISSIONER LADNER.

UH, AND I'VE ONLY MADE IT THROUGH CPA SO FAR, UM, SO IT MIGHT TAKE A LITTLE MORE TIME, BUT MY COMMENTS ON THIS ONE WOULD BE, UM, UNDER A TWO IT SAYS PROVIDE SUSPENDED PAVING OR STRUCTURAL SOIL FOR STREET TREES.

I THINK THAT SHOULD BE MOVED TO A THREE.

UM, I WOULD ALSO THINK THAT THAT COULD BE CONSIDERED A PREREQ.

UM, JUST IF, AND I, I THINK IT SHOULD BE MOVED TO THREE, UM, BECAUSE THE SOIL WOULD BE FOR BLOCKING SUN.

MAYBE Y'ALL WERE THINKING IT'S BLOCKING RAIN.

BUT I THINK MOST IMPORTANTLY, HUMAN COMFORT WISE WOULD BE THE GETTING THAT SHADE.

UM, I WOULD LIKE THE GROUP TO CONSIDER PREREQ FOR SOME TYPE OF EXPANDED SOIL FOR TREES SO THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY GET THAT TREE HEIGHT APPROPRIATE FOR THE STREETS SCAPES.

UH, AND THEN THE LAST COMMENT REGARDING UTILIZE HIGH ALBEDO MATERIALS.

SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE STAFF IS REVIEWING GREAT STREETS WITH REGARDS TO SRI VALUE, JUST SO THAT WE DON'T SAY, HEY, IT HAS TO MEET THIS, BUT THEN GREAT STREETS IS SAYING YOU HAVE TO USE THESE PAVERS, WHICH MAYBE DON'T MEET THAT.

UM, SO THAT'S JUST SOME OF THOSE ELEMENTS THAT NEED TO COME TOGETHER, IF I MAY OFFER A WINDOW INTO OUR INTENT THERE.

UM, THANK YOU COMMISSIONER.

UM, THE, WHAT PART OF THE REORGANIZATION WAS WE WERE TRYING TO HAVE THE GUIDELINES SPEAK TO THE OUTCOMES WE WANT TO SEE.

UM, SO THERE IS, YOU KNOW, THERE IS MORE PRESCRIPTION, BUT WE'RE ALSO, WE'VE SORT OF INVERTED IT.

IT'S, UH, WE'RE, WE'RE NOT TELLING THEM, WE'RE NOT TELLING AN APPLICANT WHAT THEY NEED TO DO.

THEY'RE WE'RE TELLING THEM WHAT OUTCOME WE WANT TO SEE.

UH, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, OFFERING THEM SUGGESTIONS FOR, UH, HOW THEY MIGHT ACHIEVE THAT, THAT ARE SO THAT LIKE THE HIGH ALBEDO, LIKE IF THERE IS A CONFLICT BETWEEN THAT IN GRADE STREETS, THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO USE A DIFFERENT, UM, METHOD.

BUT I THINK GENERALLY SPEAKING, WE WANNA AVOID WRITING IT IN THOSE KINDS OF CONFLICTS.

BUT, SO OUR INTENT IS TO PROVIDE PRESCRIPTIVE SOLUTIONS AS SUGGESTIONS UNDER THE UMBRELLA OF THE, UM, OF THE DESIRED OUTCOMES.

IF THAT HELPS KIND OF CLARIFY THE, THE STRUCTURE OF THIS OUT OUTLINE.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS ON, SORRY, I'M TOGGLING HERE IN BETWEEN.

OKAY, GOOD.

CHAIR.

I APPRECIATE THE FEEDBACK ON, UH, POTENTIAL TIER ONE OR PREREQUISITE.

UM, ANY FEEDBACK LIKE THAT, THAT'S, UM, AND THAT, THAT HELPS US WITH OUR NOTES.

'CAUSE WE, UH, AS COMMISSIONER CAROL SAID, HAVE KNOW A LOT OF THE, WE'VE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS A LOT IN THE BACK OF OUR HEAD, BUT WE HAVEN'T REALLY WRITTEN, WE HAVEN'T REALLY EVALUATED EVERY GUIDELINE JUST YET.

SO FEEDBACK LIKE THAT IS, IS VERY HELPFUL.

I HAVEN'T GONE THROUGH THESE, UH, EITHER.

UM, SO I, I KNOW I NEED TO, I NEED TIME TO DIGEST IT, BUT I DO WANT TO MAXIMIZE OUR TIME HERE, UH, WITH ANY COMMENTS OR FEEDBACK FROM COMMISSIONERS CHAIR, IF I MAY.

YES, COMMISSIONER GALLES, JUST TO COMMENT ON THIS FIRST SECTION, I'M SURE IT'LL, IT'LL COME LATER IN THE DOCUMENT, BUT AS I'M UNDERSTANDING IT, PROTECT PEDESTRIANS AND BICYCLES FROM THE ELEMENTS.

WIND PARTICIPATE, PRECIPITATION, SUN, AND HEAT, BUT THERE ISN'T REALLY MENTION OF COVERAGE OR CANOPY, SO IT SEEMS AS THOUGH THAT'S PLACED IN A SEPARATE SECTION.

WHERE WOULD YOU, WHERE WOULD I FIND THAT AND WHY IS IT SEPARATE? CAN I ANSWER THAT CHAIR? UM, SO THAT, THAT WOULD BE AN EXAMPLE OF A THREE.

SO AS, AS, UM, AS WE SAID, THESE ARE WRITTEN A BIT DIFFERENT AND THAT THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE WRITTEN AS THE OUTCOME, IF YOU WILL.

SO THERE'S MULTIPLE WAYS YOU COULD COMPLY WITH THAT.

UM, DEPENDING ON YOUR PROJECT AND YOUR SITE AND SPECIFICALLY WHERE YOUR PROPERTY LINE IS,

[00:35:01]

UM, IT MAY MAKE SENSE TO HAVE AWNINGS THAT PROJECT OUT OR IT MAY MAKE SENSE TO HAVE TREES OR A COMBINATION OF BOTH, UM, FREESTANDING SHADE STRUCTURE.

UM, SO IN, IN THE TEXT OF THAT GUIDELINE, THERE'LL BE EXAMPLES THAT LIST ALL OF THOSE THINGS.

YEAH.

THAT, THAT'S NOT AN INTENTIONAL OMISSION, WE JUST HAVEN'T WRITTEN IT DOWN YET.

I THINK AT LEAST AS I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE WILL PROBABLY BE, UM, RECOMMENDED STRAT SUGGESTED STRATEGIES THAT FALL UNDER MULTIPLE GUIDELINES.

SO THERE WILL BE SOME REDUNDANCY BECAUSE THESE, A CERTAIN STRATEGY MIGHT BE IN THE, IN SUPPORT OF TWO OR MORE OUTCOMES.

OKAY.

SO, SO IN THAT CASE, I, AM I CORRECT TO ASSUME THEN THAT, UM, PER THE EXAMPLE, I BELIEVE ON PAGE EIGHT, UH, A ONE THAT GOES INTO MORE DETAIL WITH DIAGRAMS, EACH OF THESE WILL THEN RECEIVE A SUBSECTION WITH SUGGESTIONS.

AND, AND THIS IS, THIS IS LITERALLY JUST SCRATCHING THE SURFACE AND IT'S LIKE, OKAY, CORRECT.

THIS IS NOT ALL INCLUSIVE.

THIS IS LITERALLY SHOWING YOU WORK IN PROGRESS.

YEAH, BUT WE SCRATCH THE SURFACE VERY HARD.

I HAVE MORE OF LIKE A GENERAL ORGANIZATIONAL COMMENT AS I'M SCROLLING UP AND DOWN THROUGH THESE.

I THINK IT WOULD MAKE SENSE TO TRY TO ORGANIZE THEM IN AN ORDER THAT LIKE HAS SOME KIND OF THOUGHT TO IT IN TERMS OF LIKE, I WAS JUST LIKE OFF THE CUFF THINKING LIKE THERE'S ALMOST LIKE A PUBLIC SAFETY TYPE SECTION AND THEN AN ENVIRONMENTAL TYPE SECTION, UM, LIKE A TRANSIT EXPERIENCE OR LIKE A USER EXPERIENCE THAT'S NOT PUBLIC SAFETY, BUT LIKE ENVIRONMENTAL AND THEN A DESIGN KIND OF BUCKET SO THAT WHEN YOU'RE SCROLLING, YOU'RE KIND OF HITTING LIKE THE ONES THAT ALL FALL TOGETHER IN ONE PLACE.

NOTED.

I PUT IT IN MY NOTES HERE.

CHAIR, IT'S COMMISSIONER LAER.

SORRY.

UH, PROBABLY AGAIN, WE'VE COVERED THIS I'M SURE A MILLION TIMES, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE GROUPS COME TO US AND THEY WANT ADDITIONAL DENSITY BONUS.

THE PRE-REQS ARE WHAT THEY'LL BE REQUIRED TO DO.

AND THEN ANYTHING ELSE THEY CAN JUST DO, LIKE, I'M STILL, MAYBE I'M STILL JUST A LITTLE CONFUSED.

I DON'T WANNA BACK US UP MONTHS ON THIS, AND IT'S KIND OF UNRELATED TO THIS, BUT I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE SURE I FULLY UNDERSTAND WHAT THIS BOARD, UM, OUR RECOMMENDATION BASED ON THIS.

SO THE, THE ORDINANCE LANGUAGE IS NOT GONNA CHANGE.

IT'S STILL GONNA SAY THAT THEY MUST SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLY WITH URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES.

WE'RE JUST GONNA SAY AN X NUMBER OF THESE AND IT'S NOT GONNA BE A HUGE NUMBER, UM, THAT THEY NEED TO DO.

AND THEN THEY PICK THE REST OF 'EM.

AND THERE'S STILL GONNA BE THE SUBJECTIVE, HOW MANY OF THESE DO THEY NEED TO DO COMPLY WITH TO BE SUBSTANTIALLY IN COMPLIANCE.

AND, UM, WE'RE NOT PROPOSING AT THIS TIME FOR COUNSEL TO CHANGE THAT LANGUAGE.

I MEAN, IT WAS, IT WAS WRITTEN THAT WAY INTENTIONALLY.

UM, EVEN THOUGH IT'S FRUSTRATING AT TIMES.

UM, BUT PERHAPS IT'S SOMETHING THAT COULD BE REVISITED IN THE FUTURE.

UM, BUT RIGHT NOW WE'RE NOT PROPOSING TO CHANGE THAT LANGUAGE.

COMMISSIONER MCCARROLL.

THAT MAKES, I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S A, AN AN INTERESTING POINT.

SO WITH THE TIERS, YOU KNOW, THE TIER ONE MIGHT NOT NECESSARILY BE A PREREQUISITE IN THE SENSE THAT WE'RE USED TO USING IT MIGHT BE THE, THE PRIORITY ONE, UM, WHERE, YOU KNOW, SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION OF MAYBE I'M MAKING UP NUMBERS, FOUR OR FIVE TIER TWOS IN LIEU OF, OF A TIER ONE THAT CANNOT BE ACHIEVED, UM, COULD BE UNDER CONSIDERATION.

SO I THINK WE'RE STILL,

[00:40:01]

UM, YOU'RE ASKING THE RIGHT QUESTIONS, BUT WE'RE WE'RE STILL FORMULATING EXACTLY HOW THAT WOULD WORK.

BUT I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER CARROLL THAT IT WOULD BE A LIMITED NUMBER TO SAY, THESE ARE THE, THESE ARE THE PRIORITIES THAT WE WANNA SEE EXECUTED.

AND, AND THEN BEYOND THAT, UM, THERE, THERE'S ANOTHER TIER.

YEAH, I APPRECIATE THAT BECAUSE THEN IT GIVES ME, AS A BOARD MEMBER A LITTLE BIT MORE, UM, CONVICTION AND, AND MY RESPONSES BASED ON THAT.

WHEN WE GET TO THAT, LIKE YOU, YOU KNOW, IN OUR CONVERSATIONS ON WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE GONNA RECOMMEND THEM TO COUNCIL.

SO, OR PLANNING COMMISSION IF I MAY? YES, PLEASE.

JUST TO CLARIFY A COUPLE OF THINGS.

AS A REMINDER, THE COMMISSION IS CHARGED BY THE CITY CODE TO EVALUATE WHETHER PROJECTS COMPLY WITH THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES.

THE MENTION OF SUBSTANTIAL COMPLIANCE ONLY APPLIES FOR A REDESIGN OF A BUILDING.

AND THAT IS AN ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS FURTHER ON DOWN ON SUBSECTION C OF 25 2 5 86 C AS IN CHARLIE.

THEREFORE, WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO GET AT IS, UH, A PATHWAY BY WHICH THE COMMISSION CAN FIND COMPLIANCE WITH THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES.

YOU MAY MAKE A RECOMMENDATION OR AN ATTEMPT AS TO TRY TO DEFINE WHAT THAT IS WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES.

SO FOR EXAMPLE, YOU MAY BE TELLING A PROJECT, IF YOU WISH TO COME AS PART OF YOUR REQUEST FOR A DENSITY BONUS PROJECT PRESENT TO THE DESIGN COMMISSION AND DEMONSTRATE COMPLIANCE WITH THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES.

WE, THE COMMISSION WILL BE LOOKING AT THESE THINGS X, Y, Z 1 23, AND YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PERHAPS A TIER ONE, IF I'M UNDERSTANDING CORRECTLY.

AND FOLLOWING THE DISCUSSION, THERE'S A PRECURSOR OF MINIMUM THINGS THAT A PROJECT MUST DEMONSTRATE.

THAT'S THE PATHWAY THAT YOU ARE DEMONSTRATING TO THESE PROJECTS THAT THEY NEED TO FOLLOW IN ORDER TO REACH COMPLIANCE.

THAT'S THE STORY YOU WANT TO BE TELLING.

SO THAT AT WHICHEVER QUANTIFICATION OF WHETHER IT'S A NUMBER OF GUIDELINES OR A PARTICULAR CONTEXT YOU WANT TO SEE EXTRAPOLATED FROM COMPLIANCE WITH THE GUIDELINES IS WHAT YOU'RE SETTING THE PREMISE UPFRONT FOR PROJECTS TO BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND, EVALUATE, AND DEMONSTRATE TO YOU THROUGH THE VARIOUS EXHIBITS, DESIGNS, PLANS, RENDERINGS, ET CETERA.

SO WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF COMPLIANCE WITH THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES IS WHERE THIS COMMISSION HAS A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF LEEWAY TO COME TO A CONCLUSION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THOSE PROJECTS ARE INDEED IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE GUIDELINES.

YOU ARE THEN AS A COMMISSION GIVING A RECOMMENDATION TO CITY STAFF FOR EVALUATION OF THAT AS THE CODE IS WRITTEN.

STAFF CANNOT INITIATE THAT PROCESS UNTIL WE CONSIDER THE COMMISSION'S RECOMMENDATION.

THEREFORE, OUR PROCESS DOES NOT START UNTIL WE HAVE A RECOMMENDATION FROM THE COMMISSION, WHICH IS HIGHLY VALUED AND APPRECIATED.

THANK YOU CHAIR.

AND THE SUBSTANTIAL PORTION OF THAT THAT YOU HAD MENTIONED, THAT'S, THAT'S DECIDED BY THE DIRECTOR.

UM, AND SO IN OUR RECOMMENDATIONS THOUGH, YOU KNOW, IF SOMETHING'S COMPLIANT, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE IT'S IN THE BEST INTEREST FOR US TO IDENTIFY WHEN SOMETHING IS, YOU KNOW, VERSUS SOMETHING BEING COMPLIANT ACROSS THE BOARD THAT'S, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PROJECTS VERSUS SOMETHING THAT'S A PROJECT THAT'S ACTUALLY GOING ABOVE AND BEYOND THAT'S, UH, SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANT CHAIR.

I MAY YEAH, YOU WILL JUST NEED TO DEFINE WHAT THAT IS WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF YOUR EVALUATION.

YEAH.

SO AS THE, AS THE COMMISSION EVALUATES THESE PROJECTS, YOU'RE SETTING THE PREMISE FOR PUTTING THOSE PROJECTS ON.

NOTICE THAT COMPLIANCE MEANS ONE THING.

IF YOU WANT TO USE SUBSTANTIAL COMPLIANCE, YOU'LL NEED TO DEFINE THAT SOMEHOW.

NEITHER THE ENABLING

[00:45:01]

ORDINANCE NOR THE CITY CODE TODAY DEFINE COMPLIANCE OR SUBSTANTIAL COMPLIANCE.

OKAY.

HOWEVER, THE COMMISSION IS WELCOME TO EXPLORE THAT WITHIN THE BOUNDS OF THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES.

GOTCHA.

THAT WILL HELP THE STAFF TREMENDOUSLY TO EVALUATE AS WELL, WHETHER INDEED THEY ARE DEMONSTRATING THOSE ELEMENTS AS PART OF YOUR REVIEW AND OUR SUBSEQUENT REVIEW AFTER YOUR INITIAL RECOMMENDATIONS.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

COMMISSIONER LUKINS? YES.

I HAVE A SORT OF A QUESTION THAT'S THAT, UH, NOT ALL THESE THINGS ARE ITEMS ARE EQUAL AND, UH, SEEMS LIKE IT MIGHT BE POSSIBLE TO CREATE A MATRIX.

YOU CLOSER TO THE MIC COMMISSIONER, PLEASE, PLEASE.

I POSSIBLY WOULD HAVE SOME SORT OF MATRIX BY WHICH WE ACTUALLY SCORE PROJECTS AND REQUIRE A CERTAIN, YOU KNOW, SCORE, UH, TO WE DO, WE DO, WE DETERMINE THAT IT IS IN COMPLIANCE AS WE, YOU KNOW, SORT OF AN ADDITIVE ITEM WHERE AS KNOW CP OR RATHER A, A ONE A IS OR A WHATEVER NUMBER, WHATEVER IT IS, IS EQUAL TO, UH, GETS YOU TWO AND ANOTHER ONE GETS YOU THREE AND YOU HAVE TO SCORE 50 TO GET BE IN COMPLIANCE.

AND JUST YOUR THOUGHT.

I I CAN SAY, UM, SIX, SEVEN YEARS AGO WE ATTEMPTED A SIMILAR TASK RIGHT.

AND COULD NOT DO IT BECAUSE NO ONE COULD AGREE ON WHAT THAT SCORE SHOULD BE.

I'M NOT CONFIDENT WE COULD TODAY IT, IT AGAIN BECAUSE COMPLIANCE OR SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIANCE, UH, IS NOT DEFINED.

IT MEANS SOMETHING DIFFERENT TO EVERYONE.

SURE.

BUT TO YOUR POINT, THAT'S WHY WE'VE INCORPORATED, UM, THAT PIECE INTO THE NEW GUIDELINES TO SHOW A HIERARCHY RIGHT.

OF ONES THAT ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN OTHERS.

EXACTLY.

TO TRY TO TAKE A STEP IN THAT DIRECTION.

RIGHT.

THANK YOU.

AND IF I MAY SPEAK TO THAT SCORING, I, I WOULD PUT TO THE, THE COMMISSION WHETHER OR NOT, YOU KNOW, YOU AGREE, BUT IN, IN MY MIND, UM, YOU KNOW, THE MINIMUM BASELINE FOR, UM, COMPLIANCE WOULD BE THAT A PROJECT CAN DEMONSTRATE COMPLIANCE WITH EACH OF THE CORE PRINCIPLES IN SOME WAY.

UM, THAT'S IN MY MIND WHY WE ORGANIZE THE CORE PRINCIPLES THE WAY WE DID IS THESE ARE ALL THE THINGS, THESE ARE ALL THE ELEMENTS OF URBAN DESIGN THAT NEED TO BE HIT SOMEHOW.

UM, SO TO ME THAT'S A STARTING OFF POINT, UM, FOR HOW WE WOULD GAUGE PROJECTS OR SCORE PROJECTS.

YEAH, THAT'S A GREAT POINT.

UM, AND I'M EMBARRASSED WE DIDN'T MENTION IT YET.

UM, BUT YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S PART OF WHY THEY'RE ORGANIZED THIS WAY AND, UM, WHY IT THEY'LL, UNDER EACH ONE OF THESE CORE PRINCIPLES, THERE'LL BE AT LEAST ONE THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED.

UM, SO YEAH.

COMMISSIONER LADNER, THANK YOU.

UM, I REALLY JUST NEED TO SPEND MY OWN TIME ON THIS, BUT I JUST WANTED TO OFFER THAT.

I'M HAPPY TO HELP WITH SOME OF THESE GUIDELINES, FLUSHING 'EM OUT.

UH, JUST LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU GET TO THAT POINT.

UH, IF I CAN HELP WITH A HANDFUL OF THEM, WHICH YEAH, BRINGS UP A GOOD POINT.

I THINK, YEAH, WE ALL PROBABLY NEED TO SIT WITH THESE.

UM, BUT WHAT DO Y'ALL NEED IN THE WORKING GROUP? UH, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT IS LIKE, OH, WE'RE STUCK ON ANY PART THAT WE COULD LOOK AT TODAY? OR IS THERE ANYTHING THAT Y'ALL NEED IN ORDER TO HELP MOVE THINGS IN THE DIRECTION WE NEED TO GO? UH, I, I WILL SAY IF THERE IS A COMMISSIONER THAT IS GETTING REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THIS AND WANTS TO GET THEIR HANDS DIRTY, UM, I KNOW, UM, VICE CHAIR MINORS HAS SORT OF TAKEN A STEP BACK FROM THIS GROUP.

AND SO IF, IF WE CAN GET ANOTHER COMMISSIONER WHO, UM, CAN BE MORE PRODUCTIVE, THAT WOULD HELP, UM, TAKE THE PRESSURE OFF THE OTHER, THE OTHER MEMBERS OF THE WORKING GROUP.

UM, YOU KNOW, WE ARE LIMITED TO, UH, FIVE SO WE

[00:50:01]

DON'T HAVE A QUORUM, BUT PERHAPS, YOU KNOW, WITH STAFF'S HELP, WE COULD SEND OUT ASSIGNMENTS TO OTHER COMMISSIONERS TO, TO HELP, UM, ON CERTAIN ONES IF THEY'RE INTERESTED AS WELL.

CHAIR, I WAS GONNA SUGGEST THAT AS WELL, THAT WE COULD, YOU KNOW, IF WE HAD A GOOGLE DOC FOR THE ENTIRE COMMISSION, THAT PROBABLY VIOLATES THE QUORUM, BUT IF WE HAD MEMBERS OF THE WORKING GROUP SPLIT UP AND WORK WITH A COUPLE OTHER COMMISSIONERS ON FLESHING OUT THE, THAT LANGUAGE, THAT COULD BE AN AVENUE THAT WE COULD TAKE.

YEAH.

ALRIGHT.

YEAH.

SORRY, CHAIR.

I CALLED COMMISSIONER CAROL, CHAIR , I MEAN, NO OFFENSE, OLD HABIT.

UM, OKAY.

I, I THINK HOW, HOW WOULD WE MOVE FORWARD WITH SOMETHING LIKE THAT? JUST IF SOMEBODY IS INTERESTED IN HELPING OUT THROUGH WORKING WITH STAFF, UM, WE CONTACT, SEND, SEND AN EMAIL TO Y'ALL.

UM, SO IF I'M UNDERSTANDING CORRECTLY, YOU Y'ALL THINK IT WOULD BE BEST IF VICE CHAIR MYERS WAS REMOVED FROM THE WORKING GROUP AND THEN ANOTHER MEMBER WAS, UM, APPOINTED TO THE WORKING GROUP? I DON'T THINK HE WOULD OBJECT.

OKAY.

UM, HE'S PRETTY MUCH SAID HE'S JUST IN AN OBSERVATIONAL ROLE AT THIS POINT, BUT WITH A LIMIT OF FIVE PEOPLE, WE REALLY COULD USE EVERYBODY PRODUCING.

SO IF THERE IS SOMEBODY WHO'S INTERESTED AND REALLY WANTS TO DO SOME WORK, THEN UM, I WOULD, YOU KNOW, I'D ASK THAT.

UM, IF NOT, THEN MAYBE WE CAN JUST TRY TO ASSIGN SOME HOMEWORK TO INDIVIDUALS.

CAN, CAN I GET HOMEWORK WITHOUT BEING PART OF THE GROUP? LIKE, SORRY, I JUST, I'M HAPPY TO JUST LIKE GO AND WORK ON SOMETHING IF THAT'S HELPFUL TO JUST LIKE FLUSH OUT A COUPLE GUIDELINES.

I CAN ALSO ATTEND THE GROUP IF THAT'S WHAT'S NEEDED.

I, I DON'T THINK ANY, ANYTHING IS STOPPING YOU FROM USING WHAT WAS THE BACKUP AND GOING FOR IT.

I THINK THERE'S CHANGING MEMBERSHIP OF THE WORKING GROUP AS AN OPTION.

THERE'S ALSO THE ABILITY TO CREATE A NEW WORKING GROUP.

AND THE IDEA BEHIND THE WORKING GROUP IS, YOU KNOW, ESSENTIALLY IF ANY COMMISSIONERS ARE MEETING OUTSIDE OF REGULARLY SCHEDULED COMMISSION MEETING, THEN THAT NEEDS TO BE A WORKING GROUP THAT IS DECIDED AND VOTED ON AT A COMMISSION MEETING.

UM, IF THAT HELPS TO CLARIFY.

SO IF YOU HAVE THOUGHTS ON YOUR MIND TONIGHT, THEN GO, GO FOR IT.

BUT I THINK AS FAR AS LIKE MEETING AS, AS A CONTINGENT, WE SHOULD TAKE ACTION.

SO WE WOULD HAVE TO PUT THAT ON AN AGENDA AND TAKE ACTION TO EITHER EDIT THE MEMBERSHIP OF THE EXISTING WORKING GROUP OR CREATE A NEW WORKING GROUP.

DOES THE MEMBER THAT NEED TO BE PRESENT, THE ONE, UH, MEMBER THAT'S, THAT WE'D BE REMOVING? I AM NOT TOTALLY SURE, BUT, UM, WE COULD REACH OUT TO VICE CHAIR AND DISCUSS THAT WITH HIM.

YEAH.

AND WE CAN, UH, PUT IT ON THE NEXT AGENDA AS WELL.

OKAY.

JUST NEED A SPONSOR AND CO-SPONSOR.

OKAY.

ALL RIGHT.

WE'LL TALK WITH 'EM FIRST.

COMMISSIONER KINNEY.

I WILL ADD THAT IT'S BEEN VERY HELPFUL 'CAUSE WE, AS A WORKING GROUP MEET EVERY OTHER WEEK, EVERY OTHER FRIDAY, IT'S BEEN VERY HELPFUL TO MEET IN PERSON AND LIKE FLUSH THESE OUT CONVERSATIONALLY.

THERE WAS A LOT OF LIKE 30 HOURS THAT I SHOWED UP FOR, BUT LIKE, ALSO I MISSED THE FIRST LIKE, FIVE MEETINGS AND I WILL OWN THAT.

UH, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS THAT HAPPEN THAT HELPED US TO GET TO THIS POINT.

AND SO I THINK AS WE CONTINUE TO WRITE THESE, RIGHT, HAVING PEOPLE WRITE THEM IN A VACUUM COULD SET US BACK A LITTLE BIT.

SO LIKE, DOING IT AS PART OF THE WORKING GROUP, I THINK IS A GOOD SYSTEM TO MOVE FORWARD WITH IT.

OKAY.

[00:55:01]

CHAIR, IF I MAY ADD, UM, COMMISSIONER MCKINNEY BRINGS UP A GREAT POINT AND, UH, I, AS SOON AS I SUGGESTED SPLITTING OUT THE HOMEWORK, I IMMEDIATELY REGRETTED IT FOR THAT REASON THAT THE ORIGINAL WORKING GROUPS WERE HAMSTRUNG BY NOT HAVING A COHESIVE UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THE RIGHT HAND DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE LEFT WAS DOING.

UM, SO I AGREE THAT PRESENTS CHALLENGES.

I HOPE WE CAN FIND A WAY TO MODERATE THAT.

'CAUSE I, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE WANTED TO SHOW TODAY WAS ONE EXAMPLE OF THE FULL BREAKOUT, AND AT LEAST FROM MY, YOU KNOW, UM, IT HAS HELPED ME TO, FOR THAT EXAMPLE, I THINK WE'LL, WE'LL START TO BE ABLE TO FILL THOSE OUT FAIRLY QUICKLY ONCE THE WORKING GROUP, YOU KNOW, AT THIS POINT, I THINK THE WORKING GROUP HAS A PRETTY GOOD UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT ALL THE DIFFERENT CHARACTERISTICS MEAN AND KEEPING THAT TOGETHER.

UM, SO I THINK WE WOULD BE, I, I WOULD CERTAINLY AS A MEMBER OF THAT GROUP, BE HAPPY TO KIND OF TAKE THE, THE FEEDBACK FROM THIS, GO BACK TO OUR, HAVE OUR NEXT MEETING, UH, NEXT WEEK, TALK ABOUT THE INTRODUCTORY LANGUAGE, UM, THAT WAS SUGGESTED, UM, THE REORGANIZATION AND THEN KIND OF OUR STRATEGY FOR HOW WE, HOW WE CAN BEST UTILIZE FEEDBACK AND, AND, AND ENGAGE THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS.

COMMISSIONER LIDER, IF THERE'S A SPOT OPEN, GOODNESS IF THERE'S A SPOT OPEN, I'M HAPPY TO JOIN THE GROUP AND PARTICIPATE AS BEST AS I CAN, UM, TO HELP GET SOME OF THESE FLUSHED OUT WITH Y'ALL.

SO JUST, IF SOMEONE'S STEPPING OFF AND THERE'S A POSITION, I'M HAPPY TO JUMP IN.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU.

UM, SO WHAT IS THE NEXT STEPS AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, NEXT MEETING, NEXT MONTH, UH, WHAT THE GOAL IS, UM, AND HOW WE WANT TO UTILIZE THIS BASE FOR THE NEXT ITERATION.

UM, OBVIOUSLY THERE'S A LOT OF CONTENT HERE AND IT'S ONLY GONNA GET BIGGER.

UM, DO WE WANT TO TRY TO BREAK IT UP MORE INTO MORE SPECIFIED SPACES NOW THAT IT'S JUST REALLY ONE DOCUMENT AND THOSE FIVE CATEGORIES ARE GONE? UM, IS THERE A WAY TO DO THAT IF WE JUST TAKE THE I KNOW TOP THIRD? WELL, I, WE, I THINK THE WORKING GROUP FEELS LIKE WE HAVE THE GUIDELINE.

WE HAVE, WE HAVE PUT TOGETHER THE GUIDELINES.

SO THE FEEDBACK THAT WOULD BE MOST HELPFUL TO US AT THIS JUNCTURE FROM OTHER COMMISSIONERS WOULD BE, UM, IS THERE A CORE PRINCIPLE MISSING? ARE THERE CORE PRINCIPLES THAT CAN BE COMBINED? ARE THERE GUIDELINES MISSING? ARE THERE GUIDELINES THAT COULD BE COMBINED? UM, THAT WOULD REALLY, BECAUSE I THINK WE ARE NOW IN A MODE WHERE WE'RE GOING TO SHIFT INTO FLESHING OUT THESE INDIVIDUAL GUIDELINES.

SO, UM, THAT WOULD BE REALLY GREAT FEEDBACK FOR MANY COMMISSIONERS WHO ARE WILLING TO, TO, UM, SEND THAT TO US AFTER THIS MEETING.

WHO, UH, DO WE GIVE THAT FEEDBACK TO? HOW DO, WHO DO WE SEND IT TO? I THINK YOU NEED TO SEND IT TO STAFF AND THEN THEY CAN FORWARD IT TO US.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

AND THAT'S JUST SO WE DON'T HAVE MORE THAN FIVE ON AN EMAIL.

OH, RIGHT.

CHAIN.

ALL RIGHT.

DID EVERYBODY HEAR THAT? YEAH.

SORRY.

COMMISSIONER MCKINNEY.

AND THEN I THINK TIMELINE WISE, THE PLAN THAT WAS CREATED FROM THE WORKING GROUP AT THE LAST MEETING WAS WE'VE GOT 1, 2, 3, 5 OF OUR SCHEDULED MEETINGS AND WE'RE GONNA TRY TO EAT THROUGH TWO OF THESE SECTIONS EVERY TIME WE MEET.

SOME OF THESE ARE MUCH LARGER THAN OTHERS.

I THINK WE FRONT LOADED IT WITH STUFF, BUT WE JUST LIKE HAD TO SET SOMETHING FOR OURSELVES TO TRY TO CHEW THROUGH IT.

UM, WE DID ASSIGN DIFFERENT GUIDELINES TO DIFFERENT MEMBERS OF THE WORKING GROUP, UM, WHICH YOU DON'T SEE HERE, BUT WE ALL KIND OF HAVE OUR HOMEWORK.

AND, UM, SO ANY FEEDBACK THAT Y'ALL HAVE IS GONNA HELP.

I THINK, BEFORE WE START TO REALLY DIVE IN AND CHEW THROUGH WRITING EACH OF THESE.

IS THERE A PARTICULAR TIME THAT Y'ALL NEED FEEDBACK BY THAT WOULD BE IDEAL? TOMORROW.

TOMORROW? I HONEST ? UH, NO.

I MEAN, AGAIN, THIS IS, THIS IS ALL WORKING TOWARDS A, A FIRST DRAFT EVEN.

YEAH.

SO, UM, WELL, YOU KNOW, WE'RE CONTINUE TO TAKE INPUT FOR QUITE A WHILE.

EVEN, EVEN IF IT'S SOMETHING WE CAN'T, UH,

[01:00:01]

WE'RE UNABLE TO INCORPORATE INTO THE FIRST DRAFT, THEN WE WOULD INCORPORATE IT INTO THE SECOND DRAFT.

SO, COMMISSIONER WIRA, BUT IF YOU'RE LIKE US, YOU, YOU THRIVE ON A SCHEDULE AND DEADLINE.

SO TOMORROW ALL.

NO MORE QUESTION.

ALRIGHT.

UH, COMMISSIONER MCKINNEY.

I WILL SAY THAT THE NEXT TIME THE WORKING GROUP IS MEETING, I THINK WAS SCHEDULED FOR THE 24TH.

OKAY.

UH, TENTATIVELY.

SO IF WE COULD HAVE COMMENTS BY THAT DATE, THAT WOULD BE APPRECIATED.

ALL RIGHT.

NOTED.

AND CHAIR SALINAS? YES.

WE JUST PULLED UP THE TIMELINE FROM THE ENGAGEMENT PLAN.

OKAY.

AND IF WE CAN ZOOM IN TO PHASE TWO.

OH, AWESOME.

I JUST WANTED TO CALL ATTENTION TO THE, THE TIMELINE AND, AND THE GENERAL GOALS WITHIN THAT TIMELINE.

WE'RE ALMOST THERE.

YOU GOTTA TEST THE GUIDELINES.

IS THAT WHAT WE'RE DOING TODAY WITH, WITH THE HOME STRETCH? BUT THAT HOME STRETCH IS STRAIGHT UPHILL .

WAS THIS ON WHAT WAS PRESENTED ON MARCH OR IN DECEMBER? THIS PROBABLY WAS MARCH.

OKAY.

OKAY.

IT'S GOOD TO SEE THOSE DATES.

CAN YOU SCROLL DOWN TO THE NEXT PHASE? THAT'S A PRETTY TIGHT SQUEEZE TOO.

ALL RIGHT.

ALL RIGHT.

COMMISSIONER CARROLL, IS THAT IT FOR THE UPDATES, THE DESIGN GUIDELINES? YES.

UNLESS ANYONE ELSE HAD ANY, UH, QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS.

CHAIR, IF I MAY, JUST, JUST A COMMENT TO SAY THAT, UM, I DO APPRECIATE THAT THIS IS AN IMMENSE, UH, UNDERTAKING, HAVING NOT BEEN A PART OF ANY OF THE WORKING GROUP.

UM, IT'S HARD TO REALLY, UH, PUT A MEASURE ON THE TIME AND EFFORT AND, AND JUST THE QUANTITY OF, OF, UH, OF, UM, DISTILLATION THAT HAS, UM, APPEARED HERE IN THIS DOCUMENT.

AND, AND I VERY, VERY MUCH APPRECIATE, UM, WHAT HAS COME OUT OF THAT, WHICH SEEMS TO, WHAT I'M SEEING HERE SEEMS TO BE A VERY COMPREHENSIVE AND CONCISE, UM, VIEW OF THE GUIDELINES THAT IS ALREADY, AS I'M LOOKING AT IT, MUCH EASIER TO DIGEST THAN WHAT WE HAD IN THE PAST.

SO IT, IT STRIKES ME AS A VERY POSITIVE DIRECTION.

UM, THESE 10 CORE PRINCIPLES ALL MAKE SENSE AND, UM, JUST LOOK FORWARD TO THE NEXT MONTH AS ARE OUTLINED IN THE, THE TIMELINE.

I ECHO, UH, WHAT WAS SAID BY MY FELLOW COMMISSIONER.

UM, I AM KEEN TO ASSIST AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

UM, HOWEVER, I, I HESITATE BECAUSE AGAIN, I KNOW THIS IS A SAYING GOES TOO MANY COOKS.

AND SO I WILL, I WILL, UH, ASSIST AS I CAN AND WILL CERTAINLY BE REACHING OUT TO STAFF WITH MY COMMENTS.

BUT JUST WANTED TO SAY THANK YOU AND MUCH APPRECIATED.

I AGREE.

THANKS A LOT.

IT'S A LOT OF WORK.

I, ALL RIGHT.

WELL, I BELIEVE, UH, THAT WRAPS UP OUR

[01:05:01]

MEETING UNLESS THERE'S ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ON ON, ON THIS? ANYONE? ALL RIGHT.

MY COMPUTER JUST SHUT DOWN SO I CAN'T SEE THE AGENDA.

, BUT I'M GONNA ADJOURN THE MEETING.

UM, DUNNO WHAT TIME IT IS.

IS IT 7 0 6? 7 0 6.

ALL RIGHT.

WELL, THANK YOU EVERYBODY.

REALLY APPRECIATE ALL THE FEEDBACK.

THINK I'M BETTER THAN YOU.