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[00:00:03]

FIRST MANAGEMENT

[CALL MEETING TO ORDER]

COMMISSION TO ORDER AT 6:06 PM WE'LL START OFF WITH ROLL CALL.

IF I CAN HAVE EVERYBODY TURN ON THEIR CAMERAS PLEASE.

STONE IS HERE.

ROBINS HERE.

DAVIS HERE.

FARMER HERE.

GARY JOHNSON.

I THINK HE'S ON MUTE.

I MEAN, I SEE HIM SO I CAN VOUCH FOR HIM, BUT, OH, HE HERE.

SORRY.

I THINK THERE WAS A DELAY.

TI TI SILVERSTEIN.

ALL RIGHT.

WE DO HAVE A QUORUM.

UM, SO WE WILL

[PUBLIC COMMUNICATION: GENERAL]

START OFF WITH, UH, PUBLIC COMMUNICATION.

UH, WE HAVE SOMEBODY SIGNED IN, UM, LAST NAME OF NASER.

YOU'D LIKE TO YES.

TAKE A STEP UP TO THE PODIUM.

HELLO, MY NAME IS CRAIG NASER.

UM, HAVE TO TURN ON THAT.

THERE YOU GO.

THERE YOU GO.

OKAY.

MY NAME'S CRAIG NASER.

I'M, UH, THE CONSERVATION CHAIR OF THE STATE CHAPTER OF THE SIERRA CLUB, AND I'M HERE TO TALK ABOUT ITEM THREE A LITTLE BIT.

NOW, I KNOW THAT THAT WAS ON THE CITY COUNCIL AGENDA, AND IT'S PROBABLY GONNA BE PULLED AND, UH, BUT I DO REALLY THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THIS COMMISSION, ALL THE COMMISSIONS TO KNOW THAT, UH, UM, PUBLIC UTILITIES ARE IMPORTANT AND THEY'RE IMPORTANT TO AUSTIN, AND THEY'VE ENABLED AUSTIN TO DO SOME THINGS THAT A LOT OF OTHER CITIES HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DO.

AND THAT OUR CHILLING TOWER SYSTEM DOWNTOWN, IT'S A PROFITABLE SYSTEM AND IT HELPS THE CITY MAINTAIN A LOW CARBON FOOTPRINT.

AND IF WE'RE GOING TO SELL IT, I THINK THE PEOPLE OF AUSTIN ARE REALLY GONNA WANNA KNOW WHY.

AND I DON'T THINK THERE'S BEEN ENOUGH DISCUSSION.

I DON'T THINK THERE'S BEEN ENOUGH, UH, INFORMATION PUT OUT THERE FOR US TO REALLY BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND WHY THIS WOULD NEED TO BE SOLD.

SO I'M JUST HOPING THAT IF THIS IS PROBABLY NOT GONNA HAPPEN IN THE NEAR FUTURE, BUT IF THIS COMES UP AGAIN, THAT, UH, THE US AND THE COMMISSIONS WOULD TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS AND MAYBE GO THROUGH A MORE THOROUGH VETTING OF THE REASONS WHY WE'RE GOING TO DO IT AND, AND, AND WHAT COULD HAPPEN.

UH, ONE, ONE CONCERN ABOUT MINE IS THEY TALK ABOUT MAKING AUSTIN AFFORDABLE.

IF YOU SELL THAT TO A, UH, PRIVATE ENTITY WITH NO STRINGS ATTACHED, GUARANTEED, THE PRICE OF THAT'S GONNA GO UP AND THE PRICE OF COOLING.

ALL THOSE BIG HUGE BUILDINGS IN DOWNTOWN AUSTIN ARE GONNA GO UP.

AND I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU, BUT FOR ME, WHO'S LIVED IN AUSTIN ON TIME, DOWNTOWN AUSTIN IS GETTING LESS AFFORDABLE TO VI VISIT.

YOU KNOW, WHEN THE COST OF PARKING GOES UP, WHEN ALL THIS STUFF GOES UP, THE COST OF THE RESTAURANTS GOES UP, EVERYTHING GOES UP.

UM, IT JUST, IT, IT, IT, IT'S JUST SOMETHING WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT, I THINK, ON THAT HAND.

AND ON THE OTHER HAND IS WHAT IT DOES TO OUR CARBON BUDGET WITH, UH, OUR ELECTRIC UTILITY, WHICH IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT MOVING FORWARD.

BUT ANYWAY, THAT'S ALL I HAD TO SAY.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THANK YOU.

UH, UH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS, COULD I ASK SOMEONE FROM AUSTIN ENERGY WHEN THIS MIGHT COME BEFORE OUR COMMISSION OR THE CITY COUNCIL? UH, I'D PREFER TO HOLD THAT UNTIL WE GET TO ITEM THREE.

OKAY.

AND IT APPEARS THAT WE'VE DONE A SUCCESSFUL JOB OF STALLING FOR OUR, UH, OTHER PUBLIC COMMENT.

SO WE'LL LET HIM GET SIGNED IN.

AND THEN IF YOU COULD GO OFF NOT TO THE PODIUM AND INTRODUCE YOURSELF.

.

ONE SECOND, PLEASE.

OKAY.

[00:05:06]

I'M DOUG GRECO.

I'M A CANDIDATE FOR MAYOR IN AUSTIN, AND I ADAMANTLY OPPOSE THE SALE OF THE CITY-OWNED DISTRICT COOLING SYSTEM, AS WELL AS THE CITY'S PROPOSED CONTRACT TO JP MORGAN SECURITIES TO GET A CUT OF THE PROFITS.

THE DISTRICT COOLING SYSTEM IS ONE OF THE CITY'S MOST SUCCESSFUL ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND CLIMATE PROTECTION PROGRAMS. OUR PUBLIC OWNERSHIP OF THE PROGRAM ENSURES TAXPAYER AND RATE PAYER ACCOUNTABILITY, AS WELL AS ASSURING IT IS HELD TO OUR COMMUNITY'S HIGH ENVIRONMENTAL AND LABOR STANDARDS.

EARLY LAST WEEK, WHEN I SAW THIS ON THE COUNCIL'S AGENDA, I PUBLICLY CALLED OUT THE ITEM.

SUBSEQUENTLY, THERE WERE A SERIES OF NEWS ARTICLES AS WELL AS STATEMENTS OPPOSING THE POTENTIAL CONTRACT.

I STAND WITH THE MEMBERS OF THIS COMMITTEE WHO SUPPORT THIS RESOLUTION, AND I STAND WITH AFSCME IN OPPOSING THE COUNCIL'S CONSIDERATION OF THIS ITEM AS A CANDIDATE FOR MAYOR.

AND AS A FORMER UNION MEMBER WITH EDUCATION AUSTIN AND TSEU, I ASK THAT YOU STAND WITH CITY WORKERS AND TAXPAYERS AND AGAINST ALLOWING A SECURITIES COMPANY TO TRADE OFF THIS PUBLIC.

GOOD.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

ARE THERE ANY FURTHER PUBLIC COMMENTS? I DON'T BELIEVE WE ARE.

WE'LL MOVE ON,

[1. Approve the minutes of the Resource Management Commission Regular Meeting on June 18, 2024.]

UH, TO APPROVE OF THE MINUTES IN YOUR PACKETS IN FRONT OF YOU THAT WERE ALSO EMAILED TO YOU WHO, UH, SITTING IN THE AIR CONDITIONING AT HOME.

UH, YOU HAVE MINUTES FROM THE LAST MEETING, IF YOU COULD TAKE A MOMENT TO REVIEW THEM, AND THEN I'D BE HAPPY TO ENTERTAIN A MOTION.

MOVE TO APPROVE THE MINUTES.

MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER DAVIS.

DO I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND, SORRY.

SECOND SILVERSTEIN.

SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER FARMER.

UH, ARE THERE ANY OBJECTIONS OR CAN WE ACCEPT THESE BY ACCLIMATION? WE ACCEPT THESE BY ACCLIMATION.

MOVING ON INTO OUR

[2. Recommend approval of capacity-based incentives to Eanes Independent School District, for installation of solar electric systems on their facilities located at 2 Walsh Tarlton Lane, 304 Camp Craft Road, 1300 Walsh Tarlton Lane, 1201 S Capital of Texas HWY NB, in an amount not to exceed $848,830.]

AGENDA.

ITEM NUMBER TWO, RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF CAPACITY BASED INCENTIVES FOR E'S ISD, UH, WHO IS HERE TO SPEAK ON THIS ONE? GOOD EVENING, COMMISSIONER.

GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS.

MY NAME'S TIM HARVEY, AND I'M THE CUSTOMER RENEWABLE SOLUTIONS MANAGER.

SO THIS IS A PERFORMANCE BASED INCENTIVE.

UH, OUR, SORRY, A CAPACITY BASED INCENTIVE FOR, SORRY, I'M LOSING MY PLACE HERE FOR A, UM, 783 KILOWATT, UM, SYSTEM, AND THERE'S ACTUALLY FOUR OF THEM.

UM, IT WILL POTENTIALLY COVER ABOUT 52% OF THE COSTS.

AND THIS IS FOR S UM, ISD AT FOUR OF THEIR CAMPUSES.

UM, AND S IS MADE UP OF SIX ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS, TWO MIDDLE SCHOOLS, AND HIGH SCHOOL.

ANY QUESTIONS? VICE CHAIR, ROBBINS? NO.

BATTERIES.

NO BATTERIES.

THIS IS A, A CAPACITY BASED INCENTIVE.

SO, UH, IF THEY ARE, UM, CO-LOCATING BATTERIES, IT WAS NOT IN THE INCENTIVE APPLICATION.

DOES IAN'S ISD HAVE THE ABILITY TO ISSUE BONDS FOR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS? I CAN'T SPEAK TO IAN'S IDS.

ABILITY TO DO THAT? THEY DO.

OKAY.

WHY ARE THEY COMING TO RATE PAYERS FROM CITY OF AUSTIN TO PAY TO HELP SUPPLEMENT THEIR COSTS FOR INSTALLING SOLAR EQUIPMENT WHEN THEY HAVE THE CAPACITY TO ISSUE BONDS? BECAUSE THEY'RE AN AUSTIN ENERGY CUSTOMER AND THEY'RE ELIGIBLE TO PARTICIPATE IN OUR PROGRAMS LIKE ALL US AND ENERGY CUSTOMERS ARE.

THANK YOU.

IF THERE ARE NO OTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION, I'M HAPPY TO ENTERTAIN A MOTION.

I MOVE APPROVAL.

KIND OF WISH THERE WERE BATTERIES, BUT THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE HERE.

RELUCTANT MOTION FROM, UH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS.

IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND.

SILVERSTEIN.

COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN SLIPS IN THERE WITH THE SECOND.

WE'LL DO A ROLL CALL.

VOTE PLEASE.

TURN ON YOUR CAMERAS.

UH, ROBBINS? YES.

DAVIS? YES.

FARMER? YES.

GARY.

I'M TRAVELING.

I WON'T TURN MY CAMERA ON, BUT YES.

JOHNSON?

[00:10:02]

YES.

GRAFFITI? YES.

SILVERSTEIN CHAIR VOTES? NO, THIS PASSES.

6 0 1.

I CANNOT COUNT YOUR VOTES.

COMMISSIONER GARY, AS LONG AS YOU'RE NOT ON CAMERA.

SOUNDS GOOD.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

CAN CAN, WE'VE MADE AN EXCEPTION FOR HER IN THE PAST, HAVEN'T WE? MS. GOODWIN AND I ALSO WAS TAKEN TO THE WOOD SHED, SO, YEAH.

.

SO WE DON'T DO THAT ANYMORE.

.

ALRIGHT.

MOVING, HUH? YEAH, I GUESS THAT'S REALLY ALL WE CAN DO IS CALL.

COULD I RESPECTFULLY ASK WHO, UM, REPRIMANDED YOU? WE CAN TALK OFFLINE.

VERY WELL.

MOVING

[3. Recommend approval of a recommendation postponing the evaluation of a possible sale of Austin Energy’s district heating and cooling plant.]

ON IN OUR AGENDA.

ITEM NUMBER THREE, RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF A RECOMMENDATION POSTPONING THE EVALUATION OF A POSSIBLE SALE OF AUSTIN ENERGY'S DISTRICT HEATING AND COOLING PLANT LAND.

UH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SET THE TABLE FOR US? GOOD EVENING, COMMISSIONERS.

UM, BACK BEFORE THE TURN OF THE LAST CENTURY, AUSTIN BEGAN PLANNING, UH, FOR A DISTRICT, UH, CHILLING LOOP.

AND IT'S EXPANDED, UH, GREATLY.

UH, IT WAS ORIGINALLY, UH, A CLUSTER OF BUILDINGS IN CENTRAL DOWNTOWN AUSTIN.

NOW IT, UH, THERE'S THREE STATIONS IN DOWNTOWN AUSTIN, AS WELL AS THE STATION AT, UH, MUELLER THAT COOLS THIS CHILLS, THIS VERY BUILDING THAT WE'RE IN NOW.

UH, AND THERE'S ALSO A STATION AT THE DOMAIN.

THERE'S ABOUT, AS I COUNT THEM, 64 LARGE CUSTOMERS.

AND THIS CAME AS A COMPLETE SURPRISE AND MILD SHOCK WHEN I HEARD ABOUT IT.

UH, I HAVE, UH, ALONG WITH OTHER MEMBERS OF THIS COMMISSION, HAVE BEEN ON THE RESOURCE PLANNING GROUP.

AND WE STARTED TO MEET ON THIS IN SEPTEMBER.

AND WE, UH, MET, UH, MANY TIMES FOR WHAT I RECALL BEING LONG PERIODS OF TIME.

WE PUT IN A LOT OF WORK.

AND THE REASON I SAY THIS IS BECAUSE IN ALL THOSE MEETINGS AND IN ALL OUR, UH, INTERFACE WITH AUSTIN ENERGY, WE WERE NEVER, EVER GIVEN A HINT, UH, OR A WHISPER THAT THIS WAS BEING CONSIDERED, AND THEN IT GOT SPRUNG.

UH, SO, UM, MY RESOLUTION, UH, IS TO SIMPLY POSTPONE THIS UNTIL, UH, THERE IS ENOUGH INFORMATION FOR THE COMMISSIONS AND THE OTHER STAKEHOLDERS, INCLUDING I MIGHT ADD THE, UH, CUSTOMERS THEMSELVES, UH, TO, UH, WEIGH IN ON, ON, UH, IF THIS IS A, A GOOD IDEA.

AND I, I, I WOULD LIKE TO, UM, ALSO STATE FOR THE RECORD THAT I BELIEVE THAT IF THIS HAPPENS THE WAY IT IS SUGGESTED IN THE ORIGINAL COUNSEL RESOLUTION, IT WOULD INEVITABLY RAISE RATES FOR SYSTEM CUSTOMERS BECAUSE OF THE HIGHER COST OF PRIVATE CAPITAL COMPARED TO AUSTIN ENERGY'S BONDS.

BECAUSE THESE WOULD, THESE, UH, THIS NEW, UH, ENTITY THAT WOULD MIGHT OWN IT WOULD BE PAYING PROPERTY AND INCOME TAX.

AND BECAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE TO RECOUP A LIKELY PREMIUM PAID TO THE CITY OF AUSTIN, UH, IN MY OPINION, UH, AND I WAS KIND OF THERE WHEN IT STARTED.

I DON'T THINK THE SYSTEM WOULD'VE EVER BEEN CREATED WITHOUT THE CITY'S INVOLVEMENT.

UH, AUSTIN'S OBVIOUSLY COMMITTED TO IT, AND AS YET UNKNOWN FUTURE OWNER, PROBABLY HEADQUARTERED

[00:15:01]

IN ANOTHER CITY, MAY NOT HAVE AUSTIN'S BEST INTEREST AT HEART.

UH, MO MOST OR ALL OF YOU KNOW THAT THIS HAS BEEN PULLED FROM THE CITY COUNCIL AGENDA FOR THIS THURSDAY.

BUT, UH, I'M GONNA ASK AUSTIN ENERGY.

DO WE KNOW, UH, WHEN THIS WILL BE BROUGHT BACK UP TO THE CITY COUNCIL OR TO THE, UH, ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION OR OUR COMMISSION? NO, THAT HAS NOT BEEN DECIDED YET.

OKAY.

UM, PLEASE OPEN THIS FOR DISCUSSION, BUT, UH, I WANT TO EMPHASIZE THAT I AM NOT AT THIS POINT, UH, ASKING FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN A DELAY.

IS THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM COMMISSION MEMBERS? A AH, COMMISSIONER? YEAH, THERE'S THE HAND.

I SEE IT NOW.

COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN, GO AHEAD, PLEASE.

THANK YOU.

I APPRECIATE VICE CHAIR ROBBINS BRINGING THIS UP.

AND I, AS A FELLOW MEMBER OF THE RESOURCE PLANNING WORK GROUP, I'M CONCERNED THAT THE POSSIBLE LOSS OF THIS DISTRICT CHILLING SYSTEM WOULD EXACERBATE MANY OF THE PROBLEMS FOR THE CITY'S FOR AUSTIN ENERGY AND FOR COSTS AND FOR SYSTEM RELIABILITY THAT WE ARE TRYING TO SOLVE IN THE RESOURCE PLANNING GROUP.

AND, AND I SHARE VICE CHAIR ROBIN'S CONCERN ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE DIDN'T HEAR ANY OF THESE, THE POSSIBILITY OF THIS SIGNIFICANT POTENTIAL INCREASE IN AIR CONDITIONING LOAD BEING DUMPED ONTO THE CITY.

SO, I, I, I SHARE HIS DESIRE TO POSTPONE AUSTIN'S HIRING OF A FIRM TO DO THIS.

THEN I WOULD LIKE TO BE PARTICULARLY, UM, EXPLICIT ABOUT MY DESIRE TO SEE THIS AUSTIN ENERGY GIVE VERY SOLID EXPLANATIONS AND JUSTIFICATIONS FOR WHY THIS IS A GOOD IDEA RATHER THAN MAD IDEA FOR THE RELIABILITY AND ECONOMICS AND FEASIBILITY OF SERVING ELECTRIC LOADS.

THANK YOU.

I, I MIGHT ADD THAT VICE CHAIR ROBBINS.

SORRY.

UH, I MIGHT ADD THAT I'VE SUBMITTED A LIST OF QUESTIONS TO AUSTIN ENERGY, AND I'M HOPING THEY WILL ANSWER THEM BY OUR NEXT MEETING.

I HAVE A QUESTION FOR, UH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS, AND THAT IS, GIVEN THAT CITY COUNCIL HAS PULLED, UH, THE RESOLUTION OR PULLED THE, THE ITEM OFF OF THEIR AGENDA, UM, DO YOU STILL VIEW OURS AS BEING NECESSARY AS I'LL CALL A, A PROPHYLACTIC STEP, ESSENTIALLY, TO SAY THAT WE ARE PUTTING IT OUT THERE FOR PEOPLE, THAT WE WANT A SEAT AT THAT TABLE, WHATEVER IT IS, AND THAT WE ARE NOT GONNA LET THIS FLY BY? OR SHOULD THIS BE PULLED? UM, I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE THAT THIS RESOLUTION, UH, BE PASSED, UH, SO THAT WE ARE ON THE RECORD.

I, I, UM, I THINK IT WOULD BE THE BEST COURSE.

OKAY.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER, UH, THOUGHTS OR ANYTHING FROM THE COMMISSION? IF NOT, THEN I'M HAPPY TO ENTERTAIN A MOTION.

I MOVE THAT WE CAN, WE PASS THIS RESOLUTION TO POSTPONE, UH, THE EVALUATION OF SALE OF THE DISTRICT CHILLING SYSTEM.

THERE'S BEEN A MOTION SECOND, SECOND BY VICE CHAIR ROBERTS TO APPROVE ITEM NUMBER THREE AND SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.

SO WE'LL DO A ROLL CALL, VOTE AT, PLEASE TURN ON YOUR CAMERAS IF YOU'RE ABLE.

UH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS? YES.

COMMISSIONER DAVIS.

YES.

COMMISSIONER FARMER? YES.

COMMISSIONER GARY IS OFFLINE.

UH, COMMISSIONER JOHNSON? YES.

COMMISSIONER TI.

COMMISSIONER TI? YES.

COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN AND STONE VOTES? YES.

THAT'S 7 1 0.

MOVING ON

[4. Recommend approval of the Annual Internal Review of the Resource Management Commission for July 2023 through June 2024.]

IN OUR AGENDA TO ITEM NUMBER FOUR, RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF THE ANNUAL INTERNAL REVIEW OF THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION FOR JULY 23 THROUGH JUNE 24.

UM, THIS IS TECHNICALLY MY BABY, SO I SUPPOSE I WILL LEAVE THIS ONE OUT FOR YOU.

UM, WE ARE REQUIRED.

[00:20:01]

IT IS ONE OF THE SUPREME JOYS OF BEING A CHAIR OF A COMMISSION, IS THAT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO DO THESE ANNUAL REPORTS FOR THE CITY CLERK'S OFFICE.

I IMAGINE THEY GO INTO A LOVELY BINDER SOMEPLACE THAT ARE ON DISPLAY FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS, BE ABLE TO TAKE DOWN AND, AND JUST ENJOY LOOKING BACK AT OUR STORIED HISTORY IN THE PAST YEAR.

UM, A LOT OF IT IS BOILERPLATE TYPE OF MATERIAL.

UM, AND THEN I TRY TO HIGHLIGHT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT THE, THE COMMISSION WOULD BE PROUD OF, THAT IT HAS ACCOMPLISHED DURING THE YEAR.

AND YOU SEE THAT IN FRONT OF YOU IN THE, UH, DOCUMENT THAT YOU HAVE.

UM, SO IF YOU HAVE NOT YET HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT IT, I ENCOURAGE YOU TO READ IT, PUT A COPY UNDERNEATH YOUR PILLOW, INTERNALIZE IT, YOU'LL LOVE IT.

UM, BUT OTHERWISE, I WILL BE LOOKING FOR A MOTION.

UH, I SO MOVE AND I WANT TO COMMEND YOU FOR STAYING AWAKE WHILE YOU, UH, DID THIS IMPORTANT WORK.

I HAVE A MOTION FROM VICE CHAIR ROBBINS TO APPROVE OUT NUMBER FOURS.

THERE A SECOND.

SECOND.

COMMISSIONER, FARMER COMMISSIONER, FARMER, JUMPING IN WITH THE PITY.

SECOND.

MUCH APPRECIATED.

WE'LL DO A ROLL CALL.

VOTE PLEASE.

TURN ON YOUR CAMERAS.

VICE CHAIR ROBBINS.

YES.

COMMISSIONER DAVIS.

YES.

COMMISSIONER FARMER? YES.

COMMISSIONER GARY IS OFFLINE.

UH, COMMISSIONER JOHNSON? YES.

COMMISSIONER SCAFF? YES.

UH, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.

I BELIEVE THAT WAS A YES, AND SINCE I WROTE IT, I WILL ABSTAIN.

THIS PASSES 6 1 0.

MOVING ON TO ITEM

[5. Recommend approval of a recommendation for a centralized landing page on the City of Austin website for utility provider income-based assistance and conservation incentive programs.]

NUMBER FIVE IN YOUR PACKETS.

RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF A RECOMMENDATION.

WELL, THAT'S, THAT'S A MOUTHFUL.

RECOMMENDATION.

RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF A RECOMMENDATION FOR CENTRALIZED LANDING PAGE ON THE CITY OF AUSTIN WEBSITE FOR UTILITY PROVIDER INCOME-BASED ASSISTANCE, GAS PATIENT INCENTIVE PROGRAMS. UM, I WILL TAKE US OUT ON THIS ONE AS WELL.

THIS IS ONE THAT I WROTE UP.

UM, AS YOU MAY REMEMBER, ONE OF OUR FORMER COMMISSIONER COMMISSION MEMBERS WAS VERY INTERESTED IN THIS CONCEPT THAT PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE A CENTRAL LANDING PAGE, AT LEAST AS FAR AS AUSTIN BASED UTILITIES ARE CONCERNED FOR THE ONES THAT PROVIDE COVERAGE TO PEOPLE IN THIS AREA, FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO FIND IN HER, IN HER ORIGINAL VISION, SPECIFICALLY THOSE UTILITIES, REBATES FOR, UM, UH, CONSERVATION TYPE PROGRAMS, WEATHERIZATION AND, AND HOT WATER.

UH, UH, THE, THE COME ON BRAIN.

YES.

THANK YOU.

HOT WATER HEATERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

THINGS THAT WERE ABLE TO HELP US CONSERVE ENERGY AND WATER RESOURCES, THAT WAS WHERE HER HEAD ORIGINALLY WAS.

BUT IN THINKING ABOUT IT AND ALSO THINKING OF WHAT THE, THE PURVIEW IS OF THIS COMMISSION, THE AFFORDABILITY, THE AFFORDABILITY PIECE OF OUR RATE STRUCTURES ALSO COMES INTO PLAY.

SO WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE LOWER INCOME INCENTIVES THAT ARE ALSO OUT THERE, WE'RE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT AS WELL WHEN CRAFTING THIS RESOLUTION.

UM, THE IDEA BEHIND THIS BASICALLY IS, IS THAT YOU WOULD HAVE A CENTRAL LANDING PAGE, SOME HOSTED SOMEWHERE ON THE CITY OF AUSTIN WEBSITE.

IN A PERFECT WORLD, IT'S MIRRORED WITHIN THE UTILITIES THAT THE CITY OF AUSTIN OWNS.

AND THAT WOULD ALSO HAVE LINKS TO THE UTILITY PROVIDERS THAT ALSO SERVICE US, WHETHER THEY'RE FOR GAS OR ELECTRIC, FOR THOSE SMALL POCKETS THAT WE HAVE.

THAT WAS THE GOAL IN WRITING THIS RESOLUTION.

UM, AND THEN IT'S OBVIOUSLY UP FROM THERE FOR VERY SMART PEOPLE TO SIT TOGETHER AND FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE THAT WORK.

UM, WE DID HAVE A COUNCIL MEMBER ASK US TO PUT THIS IN RESOLUTION FORM, WHICH IS WHY YOU SEE THIS IN FRONT OF YOU TODAY.

SO I'M HAPPY TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS FROM MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION ON THIS ONE OR ENTERTAIN A MOMENT.

OH, THERE WE GO.

COMMISSIONER DAVIS.

THANK YOU.

I THINK THIS MAKES A WHOLE LOT OF SENSE.

MY QUESTION IS, WHAT CITY DEPARTMENT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR COLLATING AND MAINTAINING THE CURRENT, MAINTAINING ALL THE CURRENTNESS OF THE INFORMATION ON IT? THAT IS PART OF WHAT THE, THE COUNCIL MEMBER WANTED TO BE ABLE TO TAKE UP.

THEY BASICALLY WANTED TO BE ABLE TO TAKE THIS TO THEIR COLLEAGUES AND TRY TO FIGURE THAT OUT AMONGST THEMSELVES.

'CAUSE AS YOU'RE A MEMBER, COMMISSIONER KARA GOTTI, RIGHT? YEAH.

I GOT THE NAME RIGHT.

LOOK AT ME.

UH, COMMISSIONER KARA GOTTI HAD STARTED THAT PROCESS BEFORE SHE LEFT THE COMMISSION.

UM, AND THE, THE, THE COUNCIL MEMBER THAT'S INTERESTED IN THIS WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO PICK THIS UP AND BE ABLE TO SEE WHAT THEY ARE ABLE TO DO WITH IT.

UM, LIKE I SAID, MY GUT TELLS ME THIS IS GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT WILL BE INITIALLY HOSTED ON THE CITY OF AUSTIN, SITE SLASH UTILITIES OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE.

AND THEN FROM THERE I CAN SEE WHERE WITHOUT PROPER UPKEEP, IT WILL EVENTUALLY START TO FALL APART UNLESS THERE IS SOMETHING THAT IS DONE TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT HAPPENS.

AND

[00:25:01]

THAT'S PART OF WHAT THE ONGOING NEGOTIATIONS WOULD BE.

WE WERE ASKED TO PROVIDE THE RESOLUTION FORM.

I HAVE DONE SO , IS THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION? THANK YOU FOR YOUR, UM, SPONSORSHIP OF THIS DITO.

DITTO .

OKAY.

IF THERE ARE NO OTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION, THEN I'M HAPPY TO ENTERTAIN A MOTION.

SO MOVE COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN WITH THE MOTION TO APPROVE.

IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND.

SECONDED BY THE VICE CHAIR.

PLEASE TURN ON YOUR CAMERAS.

WE'LL DO A ROLL CALL ON THIS ONE.

HMM.

YEAH.

HE'LL RUN BACK.

YEAH.

JUST OFF THE DAYS IT HAPPENS.

UH, COMMISSIONER ROB, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS? YES.

COMMISSIONER DAVIS? YES.

COMMISSIONER FARMER? YES.

COMMISSIONER GARY IS STILL UNAVAILABLE.

COMMISSIONER JOHNSON? YES.

COMMISSIONER S CITI? YES.

WAS THERE A YES THERE? OKAY.

I COULDN'T HEAR COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.

YES.

AND IN A RARE MOVE, THE CHAIR WILL VOTE YES AS WELL.

THIS PASSES 7 1 0.

MOVING ON IN

[6. Staff briefing on the Weatherization Program by Holly Prosser, Energy Efficiency Services Manager, Austin Energy.]

OUR AGENDA TO ITEM NUMBER SIX, STAFF BREATHING ON STAFF BRIEFING ON THE WEATHERIZATION PROGRAM.

GOOD EVENING, COMMISSIONERS.

I'M RICHARD GENESEE, THE VICE PRESIDENT OF CUSTOMER ENERGY SOLUTIONS WITH AUSTIN ENERGY.

JUST WANTED TO PROVIDE A LITTLE CONTEXT FOR THE WEATHERIZATION PRESENTATION THIS EVENING.

I BELIEVE THAT BOTH MEMBERS OF THE RMC AND EUC HAVE ASKED OR HAD REQUESTED, UH, UH, OVERARCHING PRESENTATION ON WEATHERIZATION.

SO THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THIS EVENING COVERING BOTH RESIDENTIAL AND MULTI-FAMILY, UH, UH, CHANNELS.

AND WE HAVE STAFF HERE FOR ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS.

UH, THIS IS A GROWING AREA OF OUR BUDGET.

I'M SURE ALL OF YOU HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THAT.

THE, UH, CITY MANAGER PRESENTED THE FIRST, UH, BLUSH OF THE BUDGET, UH, $5.9 BILLION, UH, LAST FRIDAY.

THIS IS PART OF THAT BUDGET.

UM, AND IT IS TO THE TUNE OF $7.2 MILLION, WHICH IS A $2.4 MILLION INCREASE OVER WHAT WAS, UH, INVESTED IN FISCAL, UH, UH, UH, 2024.

SO WITHOUT, UH, ANY, UH, FURTHER DELAY, UH, WE'LL HAVE THE BRIEFING AND THEN I'LL COME BACK AVAILABLE WITH HOLLY FOR QUESTIONS.

OKAY.

UH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

UH, GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS.

MY NAME IS HOLLY PROSSER.

I'M THE MANAGER FOR RESIDENTIAL ENERGY EFFICIENCY SERVICES.

UM, HEY, TO CORRECT MY BOSS, BUT THIS IS A, PRIMARILY A SINGLE FAMILY WEATHERIZATION FOCUSED PRESENTATION.

UH, WE DO HAVE JOE HERE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS ABOUT MULTIFAMILY, AND OF COURSE, I'M SURE HE COULD ALWAYS COME BACK, UM, AND PROVIDE A MORE THOROUGH BRIEFING.

SO, UH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

UM, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

SO, THE WEATHERIZATION ASSISTANCE PROGRAM IS A NO COST PROGRAM FOR OUR INCOME QUALIFIED CUSTOMERS.

UM, IT OFFERS A RANGE OF DIFFERENT HOME ENERGY UPGRADES DESIGNED TO PRO PROVIDE A HOLISTIC, UM, UH, PROGRAM TO ADDRESS ALL THE CUSTOMER'S NEEDS FOR, UH, IMPROVING THEIR COMFORT, FOR PROVIDING ENERGY SAVINGS, AND FOR, UH, PROVIDING SOME HEALTH AND SAFETY BENEFITS.

SO WE DO THINGS LIKE INSTALL ATTIC INSTALLATION, AIR INFILTRATION, WHICH IS LIKE SEALING UP CRACKS AND GAPS, UH, DUCT CEILING REPAIR AND REPLACEMENT.

WE HAVE A VERY BUILDING SCIENCE FORWARD APPROACH WITH OUR DUCT, UH, UH, MEASURES.

UM, WE PARTNER WITH THE NATIONAL COMFORT INSTITUTE TO MAKE SURE THAT DUCTS ARE DESIGNED APPROPRIATELY SO THAT THAT HELPS INCUR, UH, KEEP THE HVAC SYSTEM FROM, UM, NEEDING MORE MAINTENANCE AND RUNNING SMOOTHLY AND KEEPS THE CUSTOMERS, UH, NICE AND COOL IN THE SUMMER AND WARM IN THE WINTER.

WE ARE, AS FAR AS I KNOW, THE ONLY WEATHERIZATION ASSISTANCE PROGRAM THAT PROVIDES, UH, THAT LEVEL OF SORT OF BUILDING SCIENCE APPROACH FOR OUR DUCT WORK.

WE ALSO DO SOLAR SCREENS ON WINDOWS, UH, HIGH EFFICIENCY LED

[00:30:01]

LIGHTING.

WE DO AN AIR CONDITIONING TUNEUP, WHICH INCLUDES SOME MINOR, UH, REPAIRS.

UH, WE DO SOME HEALTH AND SAFETY MEASURES LIKE CARBON MONOXIDE AND SMOKE DETECTORS.

WE ALSO MAKE SURE THAT APPLIANCES, GAS APPLIANCES ARE VENT, WELL VENTED IN A CLOSET.

UM, WE INSTALL SMART THERMOSTATS AND WE PUT REFLECTIVE ROOF COATING FOR MOBILE'S HOMES.

WE ALSO DO, UH, WINDOW AC UNITS FOR, UH, CUSTOMERS IN NEED OF A NEW WINDOW AC UNIT.

UH, THE ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA ARE YOU HAVE TO LIVE IN A HOUSE.

YOU WANT WEATHERIZED, YOU MUST LIVE IN A SINGLE FAMILY, DUPLEX, TRIPLEX, FOURPLEX, OR MOBILE HOME.

THE HOME IMPROVEMENT VALUE MUST BE $524,000, UH, APPROXIMATELY, UH, EXCLUDING THE LAND VALUE.

THE HOME MUST BE 2,500 SQUARE FEET OR SMALLER, UH, MUST BE 10 YEARS OR O UH, OR OLDER, AND CAN'T HAVE PARTICIPATED WITHIN THE WEATHERIZATION PROGRAM OR ANOTHER AUSTIN ENERGY WHOLE HOME, UH, ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM IN THE PAST 10 YEARS.

OKAY, NEXT SLIDE.

SO WE DON'T JUST DO WEATHERIZATION, UH, BEING THAT WE LIVE IN TEXAS, VERY HOT, UH, CLIMATE, AS WE ALL KNOW, UH, AIR CONDITIONING IS CRITICAL AND WE RECOGNIZE THAT A LOT OF OUR INCOME QUALIFIED CUSTOMERS MAY REALLY STRUGGLE TO ACCESS, UH, HVAC SERVICES.

SO WE HAVE TWO, UH, PROGRAMS FOR THEM.

UH, ONE IS CALLED THE AIR CONDITIONING REBATE AND LOAN PROGRAM.

THIS LEVERAGES A AMERICAN RECOVERY AND REINVESTMENT ACT, REVOLVING LOAN FUND THAT CAME, UM, TO US, I THINK IN 2010.

AND BASICALLY THAT LOAN SERVES AS COLLATERAL TO PROVIDE LOW, UH, LOW INTEREST LOANS TO CUSTOMERS THAT QUALIFY.

WE ACTUALLY BUY THOSE LOANS DOWN TO 0% SO THAT CUSTOMERS ARE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, REALLY IT DOESN'T HIT THEIR POCKETBOOK TOO MUCH.

UH, WE ALSO PROVIDE A, UH, REBATE FOR AN AIR CONDITIONING SYSTEM UP TO $1,200.

AND THOSE LOANS ARE CAPPED AT 10 YEARS.

AND FREQUENTLY WE SEE WITH OUR CUSTOMERS THAT THE, UH, ENERGY SAVINGS THEY SEE ACTUALLY WILL PAY THEIR, THEIR MONTHLY PAYMENT FOR THAT NEW AC UNIT.

SO IT'S A REALLY GREAT DEAL, UM, FOR THOSE CUSTOMERS THAT PARTICIPATE.

IF YOU'RE A MEDICALLY VULNERABLE REGISTRY CUSTOMER AND YOU INCOME QUALIFY, OR YOU'RE, UH, CAP CUSTOMER, UM, WE WILL DO MAJOR REPAIRS OR REPLACE YOUR AIR CONDITIONER FOR FREE.

UM, WE JUST RECOGNIZE THAT THESE ARE SOME OF OUR MOST VULNERABLE CUSTOMERS.

THEY OFTEN HAVE MEDICAL EQUIPMENT THAT IS VERY, VERY SENSITIVE TO HEAT AND COLD.

AND SO WE, UM, WANTED TO, AGAIN, THIS WAS ONE OF OUR WAYS TO TRY AND HELP OUR MOST VULNERABLE CUSTOMERS ACCESS, UM, EQUIPMENT THEY NEED THAT THEY MIGHT OTHERWISE NOT BE ABLE TO ACCESS.

NEXT SLIDE.

SO, JUST THREE KIND OF MAJOR TAKEAWAYS THAT I WANTED TO LET, UH, TO HAVE YOU GUYS TAKE TAKE WITH YOU.

UH, ONE IS, UM, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE UNIQUE THINGS ABOUT OUR PROGRAM IS THAT WE'RE IN-HOUSE.

UM, WE ARE INSPECTION STAFF IS AUSTIN ENERGY EMPLOYEES.

A LOT OF UTILITIES WILL OUTSOURCE THE WHOLE THING, NOT US.

WE CUSTOMERS GET TO WORK WITH AN AUSTIN ENERGY EMPLOYEE THAT BASICALLY SERVES AS A TRUSTED ENERGY ADVISOR.

BASICALLY, PROJECT MANAGES FROM BEGINNING TO END FOR EACH CUSTOMER.

THEY MEET WITH THE CONTRACTOR, THEY MEET WITH THE CUSTOMER ALTOGETHER AT ONCE AND SPEND ABOUT AN HOUR AND A HALF WALKING THROUGH THE HOUSE AND PROVIDING A CUSTOM SUITE OF MEASURES FOR THAT CUSTOMER.

UM, THEY ALSO WILL, YOU KNOW, ANSWER QUESTIONS FOR THE CONTRACTOR AND REALLY MAKE SURE THAT THAT CUSTOMER'S TAKEN CARE OF ON THE BACK END.

WE HAVE, UH, QUALITY CONTROL, QUALITY ASSURANCE.

IT'S A THIRD PARTY THAT COMES IN AND BASICALLY DOES AIR TESTING AND MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, EACH MEASURE WAS INSTALLED CORRECTLY.

UM, AGAIN, AS FAR AS I'M AWARE OF, WE'RE ONE OF THE ONLY UTILITIES THAT DOES THAT A HUNDRED PERCENT.

A LOT OF UTILITIES DO, MAYBE 10%, BUT A HUNDRED PERCENT OF OUR CUSTOMERS BECAUSE WE RECOGNIZE WE REALLY WANNA MAKE SURE THESE CUSTOMERS GET AN EXCELLENT SERVICE AT THE END.

UH, THERE'S A LOT OF CUSTOMERS THAT NEED REPAIRS TO THEIR HOUSES BEFORE THEY CAN GO THROUGH THE WEATHERIZATION PROGRAM.

PERHAPS THEY HAVE A, A LEAKY ROOF OR RODENT INFESTATION.

SO WE ARE PART OF THE HOUSING REPAIR COALITION, WHICH PROVIDES REFERRALS TO OTHER NONPROFITS THAT CAN LINK PROVIDE, UM, REPAIRS TO THAT HOME PRIOR TO GOING THROUGH THE WEATHERIZATION PROGRAM.

UM, A LOT OF TIME WE HAVE SOME REALLY CLOSE LINKS WITH SOME OF THOSE PARTNERS.

SOMETIMES WE'RE ABLE TO GO OUT WITH THAT, UH, REPAIR AGENCY AND BASICALLY COORDINATE THE WHOLE EFFORT AND REALLY BRAID OUR FUNDS TOGETHER AND PROVIDE A REALLY GREAT SERVICE FOR OUR CUSTOMER.

AND THEN, YEAH, JUST, YOU KNOW, OUR CUSTOMERS REALLY BENEFIT FROM THE ENERGY SAVINGS.

IT PROVIDES MORE MONEY IN THEIR POCKETBOOK,

[00:35:01]

REDUCES THEIR ENERGY BURDEN.

THEY'RE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, MAYBE MAKE HEALTHCARE PAYMENTS OR BUY MORE GROCERIES.

AND WE REALLY SEE THAT AS AN AMAZING BENEFIT FOR OUR, UH, INCOME QUALIFIED CUSTOMERS.

NEXT SLIDE.

SO BEFORE I KIND OF TELL YOU GUYS WHERE WE'RE GOING, IT'D BE GREAT TO SEE, UH, WHERE WE'VE BEEN, AND WE'VE GONE THROUGH MANY ITERATIONS OF THIS PROGRAM.

UH, THE CITY OF BOSTON HAS CHANGED A LOT OVER THE YEARS, AND WE CONTINUE TO HAVE TO CHANGE ALONG WITH IT.

UM, THIS, THIS PROGRAM'S BEEN AROUND SINCE THE EIGHTIES, BUT WE JUST, FOR BREVITY'S SAKE, STARTED IN 2013, RIGHT AFTER THE END OF THE AMERICAN RECOVERY AND REINVESTMENT ACT.

AND, YOU KNOW, WE KIND OF HIT A BANNER YEAR IN 2017 WITH 878 CUSTOMERS, BUT THEN WE NOTICED THAT WE WEREN'T BEING, UH, ABLE TO GET CUSTOMER INVOLVEMENT.

UM, WE SEEMED TO KIND OF, YOU KNOW, OUR PRACTICE, YOU KNOW, STOPPED ATTRACTING CUSTOMERS AND WE WEREN'T A HUNDRED PERCENT SURE WHY.

SO WHAT WE DID WAS WE HAD SOME FOCUS GROUPS WITH CUSTOMERS THAT, UM, TRIED TO PARTICIPATE AND WERE ABLE TO, WE ALSO LOOKED AT WHAT OTHER UTILITIES WERE DOING THAT WERE MUCH MORE SUCCESSFUL THAN US IN RECRUITING CUSTOMERS, AND REALIZED WE HAD A LOT OF BARRIERS THAT WERE PREVENTING CUSTOMERS FROM PARTICIPATING.

UM, OUR INCOME QUALIFICATION REQUIREMENTS WAS REALLY LOW COMPARED TO THE COST OF LIVING IN AUSTIN.

SO WE INCREASED IT TO 80% MEDIUM FAMILY INCOME, WHICH ALIGNS WITH THE OTHER CITY DEPARTMENTS, UM, MAKING FOR AN EASIER REFERRAL PROCESS.

UM, WE ALSO, WE REC REALIZED THAT OUR APPLICATION PROCESS WAS EXTREMELY COMPLICATED AND VERY OFF-PUTTING.

AND SO WE REDUCED IT DOWN TO A ONE PAGE APPLICATION AND ENGLISH AND SPANISH MOBILE FRIENDLY TAKES 'EM ABOUT A MINUTE TO APPLY.

AND, UH, IT HAS REALLY, I THINK, HELPED A LOT OF CUSTOMERS OUT AND MADE IT EASIER FOR THEM TO APPLY.

UM, NOW UNFORTUNATELY, THOSE CHANGES CAME RIGHT AROUND COVID, SO IT DIDN'T REALLY TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

UH, WE HAD TO KIND OF SHUT THINGS DOWN FOR COVID.

UM, AND THEN ONCE WE KIND OF GOT BACK UP AND RUNNING, WE KIND OF RAN INTO A, ONCE WE HAD A LOT OF CUSTOMERS, WE, UH, A LOT OF OUR CONTRACTORS HAD DWINDLED AWAY.

UM, AND WE NEEDED TO RETHINK HOW WE HAD OUR CONTRACTORS AND, UM, BASICALLY RETHINK OUR STRUCTURE AND RETHINK HOW WE RECRUIT CONTRACTORS, RETHINK WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT.

AND AS A RESULT, UM, WE HA NOW HAVE 19 CONTRACTORS.

AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS YEAR, WE ONLY HAD SIX.

SO WE'VE REALLY INCREASED OUR NUMBER OF CONTRACTORS, WE'VE DOUBLED OUR THROUGHPUT.

UM, AND SO WE'RE KIND OF IN A, THIS GREAT SPOT NOW WHERE WE HAVE A LOT OF CONTRACTORS TO SERVE CUSTOMERS, AND WE HAVE A LOT OF CUSTOMERS THAT WOULD LIKE OUR SERVICES.

SO, UM, IT'S BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL.

UH, NEXT SLIDE.

SO THIS IS JUST A OVERVIEW OF ALL THE DIFFERENT INNOVATIONS WE'VE PUT INTO PLACE.

THE STREAMLINE APPLICATION PROCESS, ALIGNING OUR INCOME STANDARDS WITH, UH, THE COST OF LIVING IN AUSTIN.

OUR WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT, UM, EFFORTS HAVE AGAIN REALLY ATTRACTED A LOT OF CONTRACTORS.

WE OFFER A QUARTERLY, UH, FREE CLASS CALLED BACK TO BASICS.

WE REALIZE THAT A LOT OF OUR CONTRACTORS, THERE'S A LOT OF TURNOVER WITH THEIR STAFF, AND SO WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE, YOU KNOW, THAT KIND OF PROVIDES THEM A VERY EASY WAY TO TRAIN UP THEIR CONTRACTORS BY HAVING, UM, UH, A TRAINING, UH, EVERY QUARTER THAT THE CONTRACTORS CAN SEND THEIR NEW STAFF TO.

AND THEN WE ALSO PARTNER, LIKE I SAID, WITH THE NATIONAL COMFORT INSTITUTE TO PROVIDE LIKE A REAL BUILDING SCIENCE FORWARD, UH, TRAINING TOWARDS WEATHERIZATION.

AND AS A RESULT, WE'VE GOT YEAR OVER YEAR APPLICATION INCREASES AND WE NOW HAVE A RECORD NUMBER OF CONTRACTORS.

SO WE ANTICIPATE APPROXIMATELY 850 HOMES DONE THIS YEAR.

UM, AND I DO WANNA ALSO CALL OUT, EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T HAVE A FULL MULTI-FAMILY, UH, PRESENTATION FOR YOU TONIGHT, UM, I DID WANNA LET YOU GUYS KNOW, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT JUST THESE HOMES THAT GET OUR WEATHER FREE WEATHERIZATION SERVICE.

WE GET ABOUT SIX TO 8,000, UH, MULTIFAMILY UNITS PER YEAR THAT, UH, RECEIVE WEATHERIZATION SERVICES THROUGH OUR MULTIFAMILY PROGRAM AS WELL.

NEXT SLIDE.

SO, UH, IN CONCLUSION, UH, WE'VE COME, COME A LONG WAY.

WE'VE BEEN, UH, THROUGH KIND OF A WINDING JOURNEY, BUT WE'VE DEVELOPED A NIMBLE AND RESPONSIVE PROGRAM.

WE'RE KIND OF READY TO, UH, ADDRESS, YOU KNOW, WHEREVER OUR STAKEHOLDERS WANNA TAKE US AND WHAT OUR CUSTOMERS ARE INTERESTED IN.

AND, AND OUR, UM, CITY COUNCIL WOULD LIKE US TO DO.

WE'VE KIND OF GOT, WE'VE GOT THE CONTRACTOR BASE SET UP AND WE'VE GOT AN EXCELLENT, UM, PROCESS NOW FOR APPLICATIONS.

UH, WE WANNA CONTINUE WORKING ON COMMUNITY ACCESS AND CONNECTIONS AND FIGURING OUT HOW WE CAN GET, UH, CUSTOMERS FROM

[00:40:01]

HISTORICALLY DISADVANTAGED AREAS TO PARTICIPATE.

WE WANNA CONTINUE OUR WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT AND WE REALLY SEE OURSELVES AS A MODEL FOR OTHER PROGRAMS, ESPECIALLY WITH SOME OF THE BUILDING SCIENCE FORWARD ELEMENTS THAT WE PROVIDE.

SO THAT IS ALL I HAVE FOR YOU GUYS TONIGHT.

I'M SURE YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, SO PLEASE, AN, UH, ASK AWAY.

I SEE COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN'S GOT A HAND UP OUT THERE.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU, MS. PROSSER.

THIS IS A VERY IMPRESSIVE PROGRAM AND I APPRECIATE ALL THE CHANGES THAT YOU'VE MADE TO MAKE IT SO ACCESSIBLE TO, TO THE AUSTIN COMMUNITY.

I WANTED TO ASK, UM, A HOPEFUL QUESTION AND PROBABLY A DEPRESSING QUESTION.

THE DEPRESSING QUESTION IS, IF WE CAN SERVE 850 AUSTIN HOMES WITH THE SEVEN, WHATEVER THIS YEAR'S BUDGET IS, HOW BIG IS THE UNIVERSE OF AUSTIN HOMES THAT PROBABLY QUALIFY AND NEED THESE SERVICES? THAT'S A TOUGH QUESTION.

UM, I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER FOR YOU.

I THINK THERE'S SOMETHING LIKE 200,000 SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, MAYBE MORE IN THE SERVICE TERRITORY.

I'M, I'M REALLY NOT SURE OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, SO, OKAY.

OKAY.

SO, SO PROBABLY AT LEAST HALF OF THOSE COULD USE THIS BECAUSE THEY'RE SIGNIFICANTLY OLDER THAN 10 YEARS.

YES.

I MEAN IT.

OKAY.

YES.

AND THANK YOU.

THE SECOND QUESTION IS, AS I UNDERSTAND YOUR COMMENTS, THIS IS ALL CITY OF AUSTIN, AUSTIN ENERGY, MONEY FUNDING THIS.

HOW DOES THIS PROGRAM, OR DOES IT AT ALL, INTERRELATE WITH THE FEDERAL WEATHERIZATION ASSISTANCE FUNDING? SURE.

THAT, THAT COMES AND GOES APPARENTLY.

YEAH.

, SO AUSTIN, THE WEATHERIZATION PROGRAM IS FUNDED BY THE COMMUNITY BENEFITS CHARGE, UH, THAT'S PAID FOR BY OUR RATE PAYERS.

SO IT'S NOT QUITE A CITY OF AUSTIN, ALTHOUGH WE'RE ALL CITY OF AUSTIN.

UH, THAT'S, THAT'S HOW THE PROGRAM'S FUNDED.

THE FEDERAL WEATHERIZATION PROGRAM IS RUN BY, UM, T-D-H-C-A, THE TRAVIS COUNTY.

UM, THEY HAVE A MUCH DIFFERENT SETUP THAN WE DO.

UM, I THINK WE HAVE A BETTER SETUP.

UH, WE HAVE A LOT EASIER APPLICATION PROCESS.

WE OFFER MORE HOME ENERGY UPGRADES, BUT WE DO ALSO PARTNER WITH THEM WHEREVER WE CAN.

UM, WE, WE REALLY WANNA MAKE DOLLARS STRETCH WHEREVER WE CAN TO, UM, TO, TO HELP OUR CUSTOMER.

OKAY.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, AND AGAIN, GREAT JOB.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION? THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

OH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS.

I'M GONNA PROBABLY SURPRISE A FEW PEOPLE BY THIS QUESTION.

ARE THESE QUESTIONS, UH, BUT I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED ON ONE OF YOUR SLIDES, ONE OF YOUR POINTS WHEN YOU SAID THAT FOR MEDICALLY VULNERABLE PEOPLE, YOU WOULD REPAIR OR REPLACE THE HVAC UNIT FOR FREE.

CORRECT.

UH, HOW MANY UNITS WOULD THAT BE ROUGHLY? UM, JUST TO CLARIFY, IT'S NOT ALL MVR CUSTOMERS QUALIFY.

YOU HAVE TO INCOME QUALIFY, OR YOU HAVE TO BE A CAP CUSTOMER? WE PROBABLY DO 10 TO 15 A YEAR.

OKAY.

WELL, THAT'S GOOD TO KNOW THAT IT'S LIMITED.

UM, I'M GOING TO, UM, THIS MAY SURPRISE A FEW PEOPLE BECAUSE I'M USUALLY VERY SYMPATHETIC TO, OR, UH, USUALLY ADVOCATE FOR PROGRAMS, UH, LIKE THIS.

BUT I HAVE A HARD TIME, UH, DEALING WITH GIVING AWAY WHOLE HOUSE AIR CONDITIONERS TO PEOPLE FOR SEVERAL REASONS.

UH, ONE IS THE COST.

I, I VIEW CENTRAL AIR CONDITIONING IS KIND OF A LUXURY.

I UNDERSTAND WHY MEDICALLY VULNERABLE PEOPLE CANNOT OVERHEAT OR GET OVER CHILLED.

UH, AND IN OTHER PROGRAMS THAT DEAL WITH THIS, THEY HAVE, THEY DEAL WITH ROOMS AND NOT WHOLE HOUSES.

UH, AN ENERGY EFFICIENT AIR CONDITIONER, WHO KNOWS WHAT THAT COST IS NOW, UH, I WOULD, I WOULD ESTIMATE THAT IT'S KIND OF EXPENSIVE AND

[00:45:01]

IT'S ALSO EXPENSIVE TO THE CUSTOMERS.

UH, I MEAN, IF, IF THEY'RE LOW INCOME AND THEY'RE HAVING TO HEAT OR COOL THEIR WHOLE HOUSE, UH, THIS CAN'T NECESSARILY BE THE BEST THING FOR THEM.

SO I'M WONDERING ABOUT THE IDEA OF ROOM UNITS INSTEAD OF WHOLE HOUSE UNITS.

UH, I WAS IN, UH, HOME DEPOT THE OTHER DAY AND SAW A HIGH EFFICIENCY PORTABLE AIR CONDITIONER, A A ROOM UNIT THAT WOULD, UH, HEATER HEAT, THAT WOULD AIR CONDITIONING ABOUT 450 SQUARE FEET, ONE OR TWO ROOMS. UH, AND IT WAS ONLY ABOUT $600.

AND THAT'S RETAIL.

UH, THERE'S ALSO, UH, AN INNOVATIVE COMPANY, UH, IN THAT, THAT'S WORKING WITH, UH, THE STATE OF NEW YORK TO CREATE A ROOM UNIT HEAT PUMP FOR BOTH AIR CONDITIONING AND HEATING.

UH, AND THEY, I BELIEVE HAVE BEEN, UH, UH, BETA TESTING IT OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST, UH, WINTER.

UM, SO I'M WONDERING, UH, I'M GONNA, I'M NOT GONNA CREATE A RESOLUTION ON THIS, BUT I AM GOING TO ASK YOU TO INVESTIGATE THIS AS AN ALTERNATIVE.

SO WE DO OFFER WINDOW AC UNITS FOR CUSTOMERS.

WE'RE NOT GONNA GO IN, IF A CUSTOMER DOESN'T HAVE AN AC UNIT AND THEY'RE USING WINDOW UNITS, WE'RE NOT GOING TO TRY AND INCREASE THEIR ELECTRIC BILL UNLESS THEY FEEL THEY CAN HANDLE IT.

UH, SO WE WILL REPLACE WINDOW UNITS WITH, WITH, UH, NEW WINDOW UNITS.

WE BASICALLY DO LIKE FOR, LIKE, UM, REGARDING YOUR QUESTION ABOUT, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, PROVIDING THESE FOR OUR MEDICALLY VULNERABLE REGISTRY CUSTOMERS, WE GET A LOT OF INTEREST FROM OUR STAKEHOLDERS, SUCH AS AT THESE MEETINGS THAT WANT US TO PROVIDE MORE AIR CONDITIONING SERVICES FOR OUR CUSTOMERS.

UM, THIS WAS A SOLUTION THAT WAS AS COST EFFECTIVE.

'CAUSE YOU'RE RIGHT, LIKE IT WOULD BE INCREDIBLY EXPENSIVE TO OFFER HVAC REPLACEMENTS FOR ALL OF OUR INCOME QUALIFIED CUSTOMERS.

THIS WAS KIND OF A HAPPY MEDIUM WHERE WE WERE ABLE TO KIND OF ADDRESS THAT CONCERN BY PROVIDING OUR MOST MEDICALLY VULNERABLE CUSTOMERS ACCESS TO, UH, HVAC REPLACEMENT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, KEEPING THAT POOL PRETTY SMALL INTO JUST THE CUSTOMERS THAT MOST NEED IT.

AND THEN WE'RE ABLE TO KIND OF PROVIDE ANOTHER, UH, CHANNEL FOR HVAC REPLACEMENT THROUGH THE, UH, REBATE AND LOAN PROGRAM.

I APPRECIATE YOUR REBUTTAL, AND IT IS A SMALL NUMBER, BUT I JUST DON'T AGREE.

I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE MANAGED ON A ROOM TO ROOM BASIS AND NOT A WHOLE HOUSE REPLACEMENT.

WE'LL TAKE THAT UNDER CONSIDERATION.

THANK YOU.

IN MY HUMBLE OPINION UNION, IF THERE ARE ANY OTHER THOUGHTS OR COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

MOVING ON.

ITEM

[7. Staff briefing on Net Energy Metering & Value of Solar by Tim Harvey, Customer Renewable Solutions Manager, Austin Energy.]

SEVEN IN OUR AGENDA STAFF BRIEFING ON NET ENERGY MEETING AND VALUE OF SOLAR TIM HARVEY, CUSTOMER RENEWABLE SOLUTIONS AGAIN.

UM, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

SO TODAY I'M GONNA GO OVER, UM, WHAT NET NET ENERGY METERING IS SOME OF THE, UM, THE, THE ATTRIBUTES OF NET ENERGY METERING.

I'M GONNA GO OVER AUSTIN ENERGY'S HISTORY WITH NET ENERGY METERING AND WHY WE MOVED TO VALUE OF SOLAR.

TALK ABOUT VALUE OF SOLAR, AND THEN, UM, TALK ABOUT SOME POTENTIAL IMPROVEMENTS TO THE VALUE OF SOLAR.

NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

SO, NET ENERGY METERING AS, UM, COMMISSIONER, UM, ARIUS EXPLAINED, UM, LAST MONTH IS THE, UM, PRACTICE OF ALLOWING A CUSTOMER TO OFFSET THEIR ELECTRIC BILL WITH THE ENERGY THAT'S USED ON SITE.

UM, PROVIDE THEM SOME SORT OF, UM, CREDIT FOR ENERGY THAT'S PUSHED BACK TO THE GRID.

UM,

[00:50:01]

AND THEN SOMETIMES THERE'S ALSO CREDIT THAT GOES BEYOND, UM, A, A ONE OR A, A VALUE FOR ENERGY THAT IS, UM, CONSUMED BY THE CUSTOMER.

SO WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS THAT IF, IF A CUSTOMER HAS NET ENERGY METERING, THEY CONSUME A THOUSAND KILOWATT HOURS IN A MONTH AND THEY PRODUCE 1,200 KILOWATT HOURS A MONTH, THEY MAY GET A SMALLER AND MORE DE MINIMUS, UM, CREDIT FOR THAT TWO, THAT EXTRA 200 KILOWATT HOURS, UM, BEYOND THEIR BILL.

BUT MOST FREQUENTLY WITH NET METERING, THEY'RE OFFSETTING RETAIL FOR WHAT'S CONSUMED ON SITE.

THEY'RE GETTING SOME KIND OF A WHOLESALE VALUE OR PROXY TO THAT FOR WHAT'S, UM, GETTING PUSHED BACK ONTO THE GRID.

UM, A LOT OF NET ENERGY METERING PROGRAMS HAVE KW CAPS, UM, AS WELL AS POTENTIALLY MINIMUM BILLS.

AND I'LL EXPLAIN WHY THAT WOULD HAPPEN, UM, IN THE FUTURE.

SLIDE.

NEXT SLIDE.

SO ONE OF THE DOWNFALLS OF NET ENERGY METERING, UH, ESPECIALLY AS IT PERTAINS TO BEING APPLIED TO A, UH, INCLINING BLOCK RATE FOR CONSUMPTION AS WE HAVE, UM, IS THAT IT BECOMES QUITE COMPLICATED TO, UH, PROJECT WHAT THE VALUE OF THAT ENERGY IS GOING TO BE AND THEN COMMUNICATE THAT TO A CUSTOMER.

AND, UM, SO A LOT OF SHORTCUTS GET TAKEN BY THE SALES COMPANIES WHEN THEY'RE TRYING TO, UM, CREATE A VALUE PROPOSITION FOR THE CUSTOMERS.

AND THERE'S A LOT OF, UM, MISUNDERSTANDING AMONGST CUSTOMERS ABOUT HOW THAT WORKS.

AND I'M GONNA TRY TO EXPLAIN KIND OF WHY IT'S COMPLICATED.

SO LET'S SAY IN, IN SCENARIO ONE, YOU'VE GOT A CUSTOMER WHO IS CONSUMING 2,500 KILOWATT HOURS A MONTH.

SO THEY'RE, UM, KIND OF A HIGHER, HIGH CONSUMING CUSTOMER.

UM, AND THEN THEY'RE, LET'S SAY THEY'RE GONNA PRODUCE 2,500 KILOWATT HOURS A MONTH AS WELL.

SO WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN IN THAT SCENARIO? UM, AND, AND WE KNOW, UH, BASED ON OUR METERS THAT ABOUT 50% OF THE PRODUCTION, THE SOLAR PRODUCTION THAT HAPPENS IN AUSTIN WITH OUR CUSTOMERS IS CONSUMED ON SITE.

AND 50% OF THAT GETS PUSHED BACK ONTO THE ELECTRIC GRID.

SO UNDER THIS SCENARIO, WE'RE GOING TO ASSUME THAT THEY'RE GONNA GET WHOLESALE AT 3 CENTS.

THAT MIGHT, THAT MAY BE LOW, MAYBE AS 4 CENTS.

UM, BUT THEY'RE GOING TO, THEY'RE GONNA GET WHOLESALE FOR WHAT THEY PUSH BACK ONTO THE GRID.

THEY'RE GONNA AVOID THEIR TIERS OF CONSUMPTION FOR WHAT THEY CONSUME ON SITE.

SO IN THIS SCENARIO, UM, THEY WOULD BE AVOIDING, UM, 500 KILOWATT HOURS AT TIER FOUR.

UM, SO AT TIER FOUR, THAT'S, UH, 18.30 CENTS THAT THEY'RE OFFSETTING THERE.

AND I MUST HAVE LEFT MY GLASSES, SO I'LL JUST HAVE TO WING IT.

UM, SO, SO THEY'RE GETTING 18.30 CENTS OF VALUE FOR THAT FIRST YEAR THAT THEY'RE OFFSETTING.

THEN THEY MOVE DOWN INTO TIER THREE WHERE THEY GET 15 CENTS FOR THAT VALUE, THEN THEY GET 3 CENTS FOR THEIR, UM, FOR THEIR, WHAT THEY PUSH BACK ONTO THE GRID.

AND SO THE HIGH END CONSUMER IN THIS SCENARIO IS GETTING AN AVERAGE OF THANKS.

I DO HAVE THEM, NEVERMIND, JUST COULDN'T SEE 'EM IN MY POCKET THERE .

UM, SO, UM, SO THEY'RE GETTING ON AVERAGE, UH, 9.60 CENTS PER KILOWATT HOUR FOR THEIR, FOR THEIR PRODUCTION.

SO THIS IS A HIGH CONSUMER FOR A LOW CONSUMPTION CUSTOMER, SIMILAR SCENARIO, EXCEPT WE'RE MOVING THEM DOWN TO 900 KILOWATT HOURS A MONTH.

SO THEY'RE CONSUMING 900 KILOWATT HOURS, THEY'RE PRODUCING 900 KILOWATT HOURS, 50% ON SITE.

SO THEY'RE ONLY GONNA OFFSET TIER TWO, UM, AT, AT, UH, 12.60 CENTS PER KILOWATT HOUR.

AND THEN THEY'RE GOING TO, THE REST OF THAT IS GONNA GO BACK ONTO THE GRID AND GET WHOLESALE.

SO THEIR VALUE IS 7.80 CENTS.

SO NOW YOU'VE GOT AN ENERGY EFFICIENT CUSTOMER THAT GETS ABOUT 2 CENTS LESS PER KILOWATT HOUR FOR THEIR SOLAR PRODUCTION THAN THE HIGH CONSUMER DOES.

SO THAT SENDS, UM, FIRST OF ALL, THAT THAT SENDS A, A, UM, A VALUE SIGNAL TO THE CUSTOMER THAT'S, YOU KNOW, NOT SOMEWHAT CONFUSING.

IT VARIES FROM MONTH TO MONTH.

UM, AND IT, IT, UM, VALUES THE ENERGY THAT'S PRODUCED DIFFERENTLY BASED ON THE CONSUMPTION OF THE CUSTOMER, WHICH, UM, THE AVOIDED COST TO THE UTILITY DO NOT CHANGE IF THE CUSTOMER IS A HIGH CONSUMER OR A LOW CONSUMER.

[00:55:03]

NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.

SO SOME OF THE ISSUES WITH NET METERING ARE THAT, FIRST OF ALL, IT CAN SEND AN, AN INAPPROPRIATE AND CONFUSING COST SIGNAL TO CUSTOMERS.

UM, MEANING THAT IF, IF YOU'RE A HIGH CONSUMING CUSTOMER, THEN YOUR SOLAR ENERGY'S WORTH MORE, UM, WHICH IS NOT THE CASE.

AND IT ALSO, UM, IT, IT TEMPTS THE CUSTOMER TO BELIEVE THAT THEIR ENERGY VALUE OR, OR THE AVOIDED COST THAT THEY'RE PRODUCING ON THE, ON THE GRID IS EQUAL TO THE AVOIDED COST ON THEIR BILL.

AND THAT IS ALSO NOT THE CASE.

UM, SO THERE'S ALSO THE KW CAPS THAT I DISCUSSED.

UM, ONE OF OUR NEIGHBORING UTILITIES HAS NET METERING WITH A KW CAP OF 10 KW.

SO THAT WOULD, IF, IF ALL OF OUR RESIDENTIAL SYSTEMS WERE CAPPED AT 10 KW, WE WOULD'VE FAR LESS SOLAR THAN WE DO NOW.

UM, SO THIS, IT'S AN ARTIFICIAL THRESHOLD THAT LEADS TO SMALLER SYSTEMS. THEN THERE'S THE INEQUITY.

A A LARGE CONSUMPTION CUSTOMER IS GETTING A HIGHER VALUE FOR THEIR SOLAR PRODUCTION THAN A LOW CONSUMPTION CUSTOMER.

SO IN THAT HIGH CONSUMPTION SCENARIO, BECAUSE THAT VALUE EXCEEDS WHAT THE ACTUAL VALUE TO THE UTILITY IS, UM, THEN THEY'RE NOT PROVI OR, UM, THEY'RE GETTING, UH, SUBSIDIZED BY ALL OTHER NON-SOLAR CUSTOMERS BECAUSE THEY'RE RECEIVING A HIGH VALUE, HIGHER VALUE THAN WHAT THE ENERGY IS WORTH.

AND THEN ON THE FLIP SIDE, A LOW INCOME CUSTOMER IS SUBSIDIZING ALL OTHER CUSTOMERS SO THAT THOSE LOW INCOME SOLAR PROVIDERS ARE GETTING A LOWER VALUE THAN WHAT THEIR ENERGY IS WORTH.

SO THEY'RE PROVIDING A SUBSIDY TO EVERYONE ELSE AND NOT GETTING A FAIR VALUE FOR WHAT THEY'VE PRODUCED.

UM, AND THEN PROBABLY ONE OF THE BIGGEST ISSUES WITH NET METERING IS THAT IT LEAVES THE UTILITY UNDER RECOVERING.

AND THERE'S A REASON FOR THIS.

SO, UM, MANY TIMES, AND YOU PROBABLY, IF YOU'VE FOLLOWED AUSTIN ENERGY RATE CASES OR ANY MANY RATE CASES ACROSS THE NATION, UTILITIES, UM, MOSTLY THEY DESIRE TO, UH, RECOVER FOR THEIR FIXED COST POLES, WIRES, TRANSFORMERS, THINGS LIKE THAT THROUGH FIXED CHARGES.

BUT FIXED CHARGES AREN'T PALATABLE FOR ALL OF OUR CUSTOMERS.

AND SO A LOT OF TIMES, UM, FOR VARIOUS REASONS, THE FIXED COST RECOVERY THROUGH FIXED CHARGES, UM, IS, IS, DOESN'T MAKE IT THROUGH A RATE CASE AS, AS WE SAW IN THE MOST RECENT RATE CASE, AND AS WE'VE SEEN IN OTHER RATE CASES IN THE PAST.

SO WHEN THAT HAPPENS, UH, A UTILITY IS REQUIRED TO THEN RECOVER THEIR FIXED COST THROUGH VOLUMETRIC CHARGES.

IF A SOLAR CUSTOMER IS OFFSETTING ALL OF THEIR VOLUMETRIC CHARGES, THEN THAT THEY'RE NOT MAKING THEIR FAIR CONTRIBUTIONS TO FIXED COST RECOVERY TO THE UTILITY AND THE UTILITY IS LEFT UNDER RECOVERING.

SO THEN THE UTILITY HAS TO CARRY THOSE UNDER RECOVERY COSTS UNTIL THE NEXT BASE RATE CASE, AND THAT'S DETRIMENTAL TO THE CITY'S FINANCES OR TO THE UTILITIES FINANCES, UM, AND, AND MAKES BORROWING MONEY COSTS MORE TO THE UTILITY.

UM, SOME, SOMETIMES THIS IS REFERRED TO AS THE UTILITY DEATH SPIRAL, AND WE'VE SEEN EXACERBATED CASES OF THIS IN CALIFORNIA.

AND, AND IF YOU FOLLOW, UH, NET METERING IN CALIFORNIA, YOU'LL KNOW THAT THEY'RE NOW ON NET METERING 3.0 OR THEY'RE MOVING TOWARDS IT.

AND, AND THAT HAS BEEN, UM, AT THE DETRIMENT OF MANY CUSTOMERS AND CONTRACTORS BECAUSE THEY'RE MAKING LONG-TERM INVESTMENTS AND LONG-TERM BUSINESS DECISIONS ON A RATE THAT ISN'T VIABLE AND REQUIRES ADJUSTMENT.

SO THAT HAS LEFT THEM WITH STRANDED OR, OR, UM, UNINTENDED AND UNEXPECTED CONSEQUENCES FOR THEIR INVESTMENTS.

SO, UM, ALSO WHEN, WHEN THE UTILITY FINALLY CAN RECOVER THESE COSTS THROUGH THE BASE RATE ADJUSTMENTS, THEN THEY'RE TRANSFERRING THOSE, UM, COSTS ONTO THE NON-SOLAR CUSTOMERS, AND THAT'S NOT FAIR TO THE NON-SOLAR CUSTOMERS.

NEXT SLIDE.

SO, A LITTLE BIT ABOUT AUSTIN ENERGY'S HISTORY WITH NET METERING.

WE HAD NET METERING, UM, FROM AT LEAST 2004, UM, WHICH IS WHEN WE KINDA STARTED SEEING MORE AND MORE SOLAR COME ON TO THE SYSTEM.

WHEN WE CAME OUT WITH OUR INCENTIVE PROGRAM TO 2012,

[01:00:01]

UM, IN 2006, WE EMPLOYED CLEAN POWER RESEARCH TO, UM, ASSESS WHAT THE VALUE OF SOLAR ON THE DISTRIBUTION GRID IS SO THAT WE COULD UNDERSTAND WHAT AVOIDED COSTS THE UTILITY WOULD SEE, UM, FOR, FOR ENERGY THAT'S PRODUCED ON THE DISTRIBUTION GRID SO THAT WE COULD JUDGE WHETHER OR NOT A PPA WOULD BE VIABLE FOR US, UM, AND WHAT WE COULD PURSUE IN TERMS OF LOCAL SOLAR, UM, AT THE UTILITY LEVEL.

AND WE CONTINUED TO PERFORM THAT STUDY, UM, BEYOND 2006.

IN 2011, WE ENTERED INTO ANOTHER BASE RATE CASE.

AT THAT TIME, WE WERE ALSO PROPOSING TO FI TO RECOVER OUR FIXED COSTS THROUGH FIXED CHARGES.

AND PART OF THE PROPOSAL WHEN YOU DO THAT, YOU CAN THEN TAKE THAT FIXED COST RECOVERY OUT OF THE VOLUMETRIC CHARGES SO THAT IF WE WOULD'VE BEEN SUCCESSFUL AT, UM, RECOVERING FIXED COSTS THROUGH FIXED CHARGES AND THE VOLUMETRIC CHARGES WENT DOWN, THAT WOULD HAVE PUT ALL OF OUR CURRENT SOLAR CUSTOMERS INTO THAT SCENARIO WHERE THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE GETTING A CERTAIN RETURN ON THEIR INVESTMENT IN A MATTER OF, YOU KNOW, PAYBACK OF A CERTAIN NUMBER OF YEARS.

AND THEN BECAUSE THE RATE CHANGED, THEN THEIR PAYBACK GOES WAY INTO THE FUTURE AND IT WOULD'VE, UM, AFFECTED THE ADOPTION RATES OF SOLAR AS WELL.

SO THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS THAT WE STARTED LOOKING AT THE IDEA OF THE VALUE OF SOLAR.

UM, WE WORKED WITH CLEAN POWER RESEARCH WHO WAS DOING THAT ANALYSIS FOR US, AND THEN WE DEVELOPED THE VALUE OF SOLAR RATE, WHICH WE SUCCESSFULLY MOVED THROUGH THAT RATE CASE.

UM, IN 2012, AFTER SUCCESSFULLY IMPLEMENTING THE VALUE OF SOLAR RATE, THE SOLAR ELECTRIC POWER ASSOCIATION NAMED AUSTIN ENERGY, THE UTILITY OF THE YEAR SPECIFICALLY FOR THAT, THE VALUE OF SOLAR RATE, BECAUSE THEY RECOGNIZED THAT THIS SOLVED MANY OF THE ISSUES THAT WAS HAPPENING WITH NET METERING AND WAS A SUSTAINABLE RATE THAT WE CAN, UM, THAT WE WERE PUTTING FORWARD TO OUR CUSTOMERS THAT TRIED TO, UM, THAT TRIES TO HONE IN ON WHAT THAT FAIR VALUE IS FOR OUR CUSTOMERS BY INCLUDING, UM, THE AVOIDED COST OF THE UTILITY, WHICH I'LL OUTLINE IN THE FUTURE SLIDE, AS WELL AS A BENEFIT FOR, UM, IN THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS.

IN 2013, UM, FRACKING CAME ALONG AND AT THE TIME, UH, THAT WE, UH, INITIATED THE VALUE OF SOLAR RATE, THE METHODOLOGY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT VALUE WAS, WAS A FUTURE LOOKING METHODOLOGY, BECAUSE REMEMBER, WE WERE, UM, PERFORMING THAT ANALYSIS SO THAT WE COULD UNDERSTAND WHAT LIKE A-A-P-P-A WOULD BE FOR US AND WHAT THAT VALUE WOULD BE OVER THE NEXT 25 YEARS.

UM, SO THAT ANALYSIS WAS HEAVILY TIED TO GAS FUTURES, AND WHEN FRACKING CAME ALONG, THAT INCREASE THE SUPPLY OF GAS, WHICH THEN IN TURN REDUCES THE COST AND LOWERED THOSE GAS FUTURES DOWN.

UM, AND THAT AFFECTED THE VALUE OF SOLAR RATE, AND IT CONTINUED TO DECLINE, UM, AS THOSE GAS FUTURES CONTINUED TO GO DOWN WITH MORE AND MORE FRACKING.

UM, WHEN THAT HAPPENED, UM, AUSTIN ENERGY AGREED WITH STAKEHOLDERS TO CREATE A ROLLING AVERAGE, UM, FOR THE BASIS OF THE VALUE OF SOLAR IN AN ATTEMPT TO, UM, REDUCE THE VOLATILITY OF THE VALUE OF SOLAR, GIVE A LITTLE BIT MORE CERTAINTY.

AND I THINK THAT A LOT OF THE, THE PRESSURE CAME FROM STAKEHOLDERS BECAUSE OF DOWNWARD PRESSURE ON THE MARKET.

UM, SO IN THE MOST RECENT BASE OR BASE RATE CASE, WE ADDRESS THE VALUE OF SOLAR METHODOLOGY TO, UM, CHANGE IT FROM A FORWARD LOOKING METHODOLOGY TO A BACKWARDS LOOKING METHODOLOGY THAT'S BASED ON KNOWN AND MEASURABLES.

SO THIS ALLOWS US TO HONE IN AND GIVE A MORE ACCURATE VALUE TO, UM, THE VALUE OF SOLAR AND TIE IT TO THE MARKET, WHICH IS FRANKLY WHERE THE AVOIDED COSTS COME FROM, AND NOT NECESSARILY SOMETHING THAT'S, UM, LESS, LESS POINTED, UM, AS SUCH AS THE, UM, NATURAL GAS FUTURES.

NEXT SLIDE.

SO TO RECAP, THE, THE VALUE OF SOLAR REPLACED NET ENERGY METERING IN 2012.

IT ELIMINATED NET EN NET ENERGY METERING CAPS, SO THERE'S NO CAP.

CURRENTLY, CUSTOMERS ARE CHARGED AT THE STANDARD RATE FOR THEIR CONSUMPTION, AND THEY'RE GIVEN THE VALUE

[01:05:01]

OF SOLAR RATE FOR THEIR PRODUCTION.

IT'S A SIMPLE TRANSACTION.

IT'S EASY TO EXPLAIN, IT'S EASY TO MODEL.

UM, AND, AND, AND EASY TO UNDERSTAND IF YOU, IF YOU'RE NOT ON THE VEIN OF TRYING TO FIT VALUE OF SOLAR INTO NET ENERGY METERING.

IT'S VERY SIMPLE.

BUY ALL, SELL ALL.

UM, AND IT'S BECAUSE IT'S BASED ON AUSTIN ENERGY'S AVOIDED COST AND IT RECO IT, UM, EMPLOY THE MECHANISM OF THE VALUE OF SOLAR ALLOWS AUSTIN ENERGY TO STAY WHOLE AND NOT UNDER RECOVER.

IT'S A SUSTAINABLE RATE INTO THE FUTURE AND ONE THAT AUSTIN ENERGY CAN GET BEHIND.

UM, AND WITH THE, THE SOCIETAL BENEFITS ADDED, WE'RE ALSO ABLE TO ADJUST FOR THE IMPACTS OF CARBON ON SOCIETY.

NEXT SLIDE.

SO JUST A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE COMPONENTS THAT MAKE UP THE VALUE OF SOLAR.

IN TERMS OF AVOIDED COST, WE HAVE ERCOT ENERGY SAVINGS.

SO THIS IS THE WEIGHTED AVERAGE OF, OF THE PRICE OF ENERGY IN THE ERCOT MARKET AT THE TIME SOLAR ENERGY IS BEING PRODUCED.

SO WE'RE LOOKING AT ALL OF THE, OUR, OUR, IF IF EVERY SOLAR ARRAY ON THE DISTRIBUTION GRID IS PART OF THE FLEET, WE'RE LOOKING AT THE FLEET'S PROFILE OF, OF ENERGY PRODUCTION THROUGHOUT THE DAY AND MATCHING THAT UP TO THE PROFILE OF THE MARKET TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT TRUE AVOIDED COST IS.

'CAUSE ANY, UM, KILOWATT HOUR THAT'S PRODUCED WITHIN OUR LOAD ZONE IS A KILOWATT HOUR, KILOWATT HOUR THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO BUY OFF THE MARKET.

SO KIND OF THE SAME THING WITH ANCILLARY SERVICES AND THEN WITH, UM, TRANSMISSION SAVINGS, UM, WE'RE LOOKING AT HOW THOSE TIMES ALIGN WITH FOUR CP AND UM, THEN, UM, METHODICALLY CALCULATING HOW THAT AFFECTS OUR TRANSMISSION COSTS IN THE YEAR TO COME, BECAUSE THIS YEAR WE'RE SETTING OUR COSTS FOR NEXT YEAR.

AND THEN WITH SOCIETAL BENEFITS, WE REFERENCE THE SOCIETAL COST OF CARBON THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, UM, PUTS OUT THAT REPORT.

WE TIE IT TO THE, UM, THE CARBON MIX OF THE ERCOT MARKET BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE WE ULTIMATELY BUY ALL OF OUR ENERGY FROM, AND THAT'S HOW WE CALCULATE THE SOCIETAL BENEFITS THAT GO INTO THE VALUE OF SOLAR.

NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.

SO, UM, IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT, UM, THROUGH THE BASE RATE CASE STAKEHOLDERS ALSO NEGOTIATED THAT WE, UM, YOU EMPLOY A FIVE YEAR ROLLING AVERAGE FOR THE VALUE OF SOLAR, AND ALSO THAT WE NOT CHANGE THE VALUE OF SOLAR ANY MORE OFTEN THAN ONCE EVERY THREE YEARS.

SO WHAT THIS DOES, UM, IS IT KIND OF PUTS A DELAY ON THE VALUE OF SOLAR.

SO IT'S NEVER ANY MORE FREQUENT THAN TWO AND A HALF YEARS BEHIND, AND IT, UM, CAN GET UP TO FIVE AND A HALF YEARS BEHIND AT IT AT ITS MOST DELAYED BECAUSE WE CAN'T CHANGE IT ANY MORE OFTEN THAN EVERY THREE YEARS.

UM, SO AS CONSUMPTION RATES INCREASE THE VALUE OF SOLAR STAY STAGNANT FOR THREE YEARS, AND IT STARTS TO POTENTIALLY GET OUT OF A LITTLE BIT OUT OF ALIGNMENT WITH THE CONSUMPTION RATE, UM, AND, AND CUSTOMERS NOTICE THIS AND, AND TAKE ISSUE WITH IT, WE UNDERSTAND THAT AND WE WANT TO ADDRESS IT.

UM, AND SO, SO ONE WAY THAT WE THINK WE CAN ADDRESS THAT, UM, WILL BE TO PUBLISH THE ANNUAL VALUE OF SOLAR ASSESSMENTS, UM, AS WE PERFORM THEM ON, ON A YEARLY BASIS.

AND THAT WILL HELP TO GIVE VISIBILITY INTO WHICH, WHAT DIRECTION THE VALUE OF SOLAR IS MOVING OVER TIME.

UM, AND WHEN THE, WHEN THE VALUE OF SOLAR IS ANTICIPATED TO GO UP AS IT CURRENTLY IS, THEN THAT CAN BE SOMETHING THAT, UM, THE CONTRACTORS POINT TO AND, AND CUSTOMERS CAN HAVE A PREVIEW OF WHAT THE, YOU KNOW, WHERE THE NEXT VALUE OF SOLAR RATE IS TENDING TOWARDS.

UM, ANOTHER POTENTIAL IMPROVEMENT TO THE VALUE OF SOLAR RATE IS THE ABILITY TO, UM, TIME DIFFERENTIATE IT.

SO WE WANNA LOOK AT THIS POTENTIALLY IT'S LIKE A TIME OF USE RATE BEFORE PRODUCTION, SO A TIME OF PRODUCTION RATE.

UM, SO POTENTIALLY WE COULD OFFER A HIGHER VALUE OF SOLAR FOR ENERGY THAT'S PRODUCED DURING, UH, PEAK HOURS AND A LOWER VALUE OF SOLAR FOR ENERGIES THAT'S PRODUCED.

OTHERWISE, IT ALL CURRENT VALUE OF SOLAR CUSTOMERS WOULD REMAIN WHOLE BECAUSE ON AVERAGE IT WOULD STILL PLAY OUT THE SAME WAY

[01:10:01]

THAT THE CURRENT PROFILE DOES, BUT IN THE FUTURE, IT COULD, UM, INFLUENCE CUSTOMERS TO FACE SYSTEMS MORE TO THE WEST SO THEY GET THAT LATER DAY PRODUCTION.

UM, IT COULD ALSO, IF THEY WANTED TO COUPLE IT WITH DC BATTERIES, THEY COULD POTENTIALLY USE THEIR BATTERIES TO MEET THAT PEAK TIME.

SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE WANT TO EXPLORE.

AND, UM, YOU KNOW, AND TO ADDRESS, UM, COMMISSIONER CESAR'S, UM, PROPOSAL A LITTLE BIT MORE, I WOULD SAY THAT IT'S, IT'S OUR FEELING AND, AND OUR EXPERIENCE THAT IT'S BEST IF YOU WANT TO INCENTIVIZE THE TECHNOLOGY TO NOT TRY TO DO THAT THROUGH A CONSUMPTION RATE TO INCENTIVIZE THE TECHNOLOGY DIRECTLY FOR THE TECHNOLOGY.

AND THAT WAY YOU DON'T END UP WITH LEGACY PROBLEMS AND, UM, PROBLEMS THAT OCCUR IF THE RATE CHANGES AND YOU HAVE MORE CONTROL OVER, UM, AND THE WAY THAT YOU'RE INCENTIVIZING, UM, WHAT YOU WANT TO PROMOTE.

AND, UM, SO YOU HAVE A THROTTLE TO THROTTLE THAT UP OR BACK IT OFF IF YOU'VE ACHIEVED YOUR INCENTIVE GOALS.

SO THAT CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION FOR TONIGHT.

UM, I'M READY TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE.

COMMISSIONER FARMER.

THANK YOU.

I APPRECIATE THAT.

I'M LEARNING A LOT ABOUT THIS RIGHT NOW.

UM, I HAVE COMMENTS FROM COMMISSIONER S SO, UH, I'M A LITTLE BIT, I FEEL LIKE I'M A LITTLE BIT OUT OF MY DEPTH, BUT, UH, SO, UM, IT, OKAY, SO FOUR OF THE FIVE OF THE PRIMARY ISSUES WITH VALUE OF SOLARS WERE, WERE NOT ADDRESSED.

AND THIS IS OF COURSE, LIKE BASED ON THE SLIDE DECK.

UM, BUT THE, THE FIRST WAS THAT, UH, IT PENALIZES CUSTOMERS BUYING EVS OR HEAT PUMPS.

SECOND IS THAT THERE'S NO BATTERY PAYBACK POSSIBLE UNDERVALUE OF SOLAR, WHICH IS WHAT WE NEED NOW IS A LOT OF BATTERIES.

THE THIRD IS IT INVENT, INCENTIVIZES SMALL SOLAR INSTALLATIONS.

UH, AND THE FOURTH IS THAT, UM, THERE'S EXTRA COSTLY EQUIPMENT.

AND THEN THE FIFTH POINT OF FAIRNESS WAS ADDRESSED.

UM, AND FURTHER COMMENTS ON THAT.

I HAVE A FEW MORE POINTS.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT OKAY.

ADDRESS THOSE FIRST.

LET ME BACK UP AND TAKE 'EM ONE AT A TIME.

SURE.

SO, UH, DO YOU WANT ME TO REPEAT? SURE, THAT WOULD HELP.

SO THE, THE FIRST ONE WAS THAT VALUE OF SOLAR PENALIZES CUSTOMERS WHO ARE BUYING EVS OR HEAT PUMPS OR, YOU KNOW, ELECTRIFYING THEIR LIFESTYLE.

I, I WOULD SAY THAT THE VALUE OF SOLAR DOES, DOES NOT PENALIZE THOSE CUSTOMERS.

UM, IF, IF THE CONSUMPTION RATE DOES, THEN I GUESS MY, MY, UH, PERSPECTIVE WOULD BE THAT WE, IF YOU WANT TO INCENTIVIZE, IF EVS, WHICH THERE ARE A LOT OF WAYS TO INCENTIVIZE IT, YOU KNOW, MAKE THE PUBLIC CHARGING ACCESSIBLE, HAVE A TAX CREDIT THAT'S AVAILABLE, WHICH IS CURRENTLY OUT THERE, PROVIDE MORE INCENTIVES UPFRONT AND IN WHATEVER WAY AND HOWEVER WAYS YOU WANT TO DO IT.

BUT I WOULD SAY, PROVIDE THOSE INCENTIVES IN, IN A TRANSPARENT WAY SO YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THOSE INCENTIVES ARE AND WHAT THEY'RE ACCOMPLISHING.

WHEN, WHEN YOU TRY TO BUILD THAT INTO THE CONSUMPTION RATE, THERE ARE OTHER UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES TO THAT.

AND AGAIN, THE, THE CONSUMPTION RATE IS, IS NOT AS CONTROLLABLE AS AN INCENTIVE IS.

UM, 0.2 IS THAT THERE'S NO BATTERY PAYBACK POSSIBLE WITH VALUE OF SOLAR.

YOU KNOW, SOMETHING WE NEED RIGHT NOW.

THAT'S, THAT'S CORRECT.

AND SO THE TOP VOSS, THE, THE TIME OF PRODUCTION VALUE OF SOLAR IS ONE WAY TO POTENTIALLY ADDRESS THAT.

UM, ANOTHER WAY IS TO INCENTIVIZE BATTERY PARTICIPATION INTO A PROGRAM.

SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY LOOKING AT.

THE IDEA OF CREATING A VIRTUAL POWER PLANT.

WE PAY THE CUSTOMER TO ACCESS THEIR BATTERY, UM, AND THEN WE CAN CONTROL THAT BATTERY, UM, TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITY TO LEVERAGE THE MOST MARKET BENEFITS POSSIBLE.

UM, THE VALUE OF CENTER INCENTIVIZES SMALL SOLAR INSTALLATIONS.

I JUST, I, I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT STATEMENT.

SO I, I, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME DATA THAT SUPPORTS THAT.

I GUESS LIKE MY, AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT, SORRY, UH, IS MY OWN COMMENTARY, IS THAT MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT A SIGNIFICANT PORTION, MAYBE MOST OF THE COST OF A RESIDENTIAL SOLAR INSTALLATION IS LABOR PERMITTING, OVERHEAD, ET CETERA.

IT'S NOT ACTUALLY THE EQUIPMENT.

[01:15:01]

AND SO BY, UH, WITH VALUE OF SOLAR AND ALSO NET METERING, IF YOU CAN'T GO POSITIVE AND GET A CUT CHECK, CUT BACK TO YOU, ESSENTIALLY YOU ARE RIGHT SIZING ALL ARRAYS TO BE SLIGHTLY LESS THAN NET POSITIVE, RIGHT? YOU WANT TO KIND OF BE A NET ZERO.

WHEREAS WHAT WE ACTUALLY NEED ON A SORT OF LIKE COMMUNITY SALE AS IS MUCH SOLAR INSTALLATION AS POSSIBLE.

SO IS THERE A MECHANISM THAT WE CAN THINK CREATIVELY ABOUT WHERE HOMEOWNERS ARE INCENTIVIZED TO USE AS MUCH OF THEIR ROOF AS POSSIBLE AND PUT UP AS BIGGER AN ARRAY AS POSSIBLE? 'CAUSE YOU'RE ALREADY HAVING THAT OVERHEAD AND THE PEOPLE ON THE ROOF, THE SMALLER COST IS THE ACTUAL EQUIPMENT.

SO IT SEEMS KINDA SILLY TO BE LIKE RIGHT SIZING STUFF, BECAUSE THAT'S HOW OUR RATE MECHANISMS WORK.

YEAH.

SO, SO THERE'S A LOT OF NUANCES THERE.

UM, OF COURSE, IN AUSTIN WE HAVE A LOT OF SHADE.

YOU, A LOT OF TIMES YOU DON'T WANT TO FULLY DECK OUT THE ROOF WITH SOLAR, IT LEADS TO POOR PAYBACKS.

POOR PAYBACKS LEAD TO POOR EXPERIENCES, POOR EXPERIENCES LEAD TO LESS SOLAR.

UM, A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE DO TOTALLY MAX OUT THEIR ROOF AND THEY STILL DON'T PRODUCE ENOUGH ENERGY TO MEET ALL OF THEIR ENERGY NEEDS.

IN TEXAS, IT'S A HOT PLACE.

LOTS OF AC LOADS THEIR, THEIR HIGH LOADS.

UM, WE, WE DO HAVE SOME CUSTOMERS THAT OVERPRODUCE, THEY RECEIVE A CREDIT THAT ROLLS ON INDEFINITELY.

THEY CAN HAVE A ZERO BILL INDEFINITELY.

THERE ARE NO NET METERING PROGRAMS THAT I KNOW OF THAT WILL PAY A CUSTOMER OUT IF THEY DO IT IS A VERY DI MINIS AMOUNT.

SO I, I, THAT'S MY RESPONSE TO THAT.

SURE.

I, I THINK MAYBE THE, AND AGAIN, THIS IS ALL, UH, I THINK MY THOUGHT ON THAT PER NOT COMMISSIONER TES REDI IS THAT, LIKE, IS THERE SOME OTHER WAY OF LIKE COMMUNITY SHARING THAT, YOU KNOW, TO WHERE IT'S LIKE YOU'RE PRODUCING, YOU PUT WHAT YOU'D PUT BASED ON THE RECOMMENDATION ON YOUR ROOF, AND THEN THE EXTRA 20% OF YOUR ROOF THAT YOU HAVE, ASSUMING YOU HAVE EXTRA ROOF THAT IS IN FULL SUN, CAN SOMEHOW BE SHARED AMONG THE COMMUNITY.

BUT IT'S STILL PRODUCING, YOU'RE STILL PUTTING THE, THE ARRAY UP THERE.

AND I KNOW THAT'S COMPLICATED WITH OWNERSHIP AND ALL THAT, BUT THAT'S, YEAH.

IT, IT MAY BE, UH, ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE THE JUICE ISN'T WORTH THE SQUEEZE.

MM-HMM.

.

UM, I THINK THAT THERE'S PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, A VERY SMALL FRACTION OF SOLAR CUSTOMERS WANT TO OVERPRODUCE SO MUCH THAT THEY'RE CONTRIBUTING BACK.

UM, I KNOW THAT THAT CAN HAPPEN IN CERTAIN AREAS.

IT'S, AGAIN, IT'S JUST NOT LIKELY IN AUSTIN BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THAT MUCH ROOF SPACE.

MM-HMM.

, IF YOU HAVE A TWO STORY HOME, YOU'RE NOT LIKELY TO PRODUCE TOO MUCH MORE THAN WHAT YOU CONSUME IN AUSTIN.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

UM, I'M ABOUT HALFWAY THROUGH.

MM-HMM.

, UH, ON SLIDE FOUR LABELED NET ENERGY METERING COMPLEXITY.

MM-HMM.

, UM, USING 3 CENTS PER KILOWATT HOUR FOR A BUYBACK PRICE IS LOW.

IT'S THE LOWEST I'VE HEARD OF COMMON PRICES IN TEXAS ARE MORE LIKE 10 KILOWATT, 10 CENTS PER KILOWATT HOUR.

I DID THE MATH ATTACHED.

I CAN'T ATTACH, I GUESS I CAN SHARE THIS WITH Y'ALL.

UM, AND FOR BOTH SCENARIOS ONE AND TWO IN THE POWERPOINT, THE CUSTOMER BILLS ARE ALMOST IDENTICAL FOR NET METERING OR VALUE OR SOLAR, WHICH MEANS UNDER AUSTIN ENERGY VALUE OF SOLAR CUSTOMERS ARE GETTING A RATE ROUGHLY EQUIVALENT TO A NET METERING RATE OF 0.03 PER KILOWATT HOUR.

WHICH, AS I DISCLAIMED, IS A VERY LOW RATE.

AGAIN, I DON'T DISAGREE THAT IT'S SLOW.

UM, I CAN MODEL IT HIGHER IF THAT'S WHAT Y'ALL WANNA SEE.

UM, BUT THE, THE POINT WAS THAT IT'S COMPLEX MM-HMM.

AND THAT IT VARIES, UM, BASED ON THE CUSTOMER'S CONSUMPTION.

OKAY.

AND THE VALUE, THE ACTUAL VALUE OF THE SOLAR ENERGY THAT THEY PRODUCE DOES NOT VARY BASED ON THEIR CONSUMPTION.

OKAY.

UM, ON SLIDE FIVE, LABELED NET ENERGY METERING UNDER UTILITY, UNDER RECOVERY, UM, I, COMMISSIONER SAS, UH, ADDRESSED THIS HEAVILY IN MY PRESENTATION, BUT SOLAR CUSTOMERS DO PAY FIXED COSTS.

AND THE WHOLE POINT OF SOLAR BUYBACK IN GENERAL IS TO INCENTIVIZE SOLAR BY PAYING CUSTOMERS.

THE MORE YOU PAY THEM, THE MORE SOLAR YOU'LL GET.

THE MORE SOLAR WE GET, THE MORE CLOSE, THE CLOSER WE GET TO ZERO EMISSIONS, WHICH IS THE PRIMARY GOAL OF THE AUSTIN ENERGY RESOURCE GENERATION CLIMATE PLAN.

SO, AND OBVIOUSLY NET BENEFICIAL BEHAVIOR THAT WE WANT MORE OF.

THE ARGUMENT FOR AUSTIN ENERGY SEEMS TO BE CONFUSING GIVEN THAT THEY RUN A SURPLUS, WHICH GETS SENT BACK TO THE CITY'S GENERAL FUND ABOUT 115 MILLION IN 2022.

SO IT SEEMS POSSIBLE THAT A HIGH SOLAR USE PRODUCE USER SLASH PRODUCER IS ACTUALLY SUBSIDIZING THAT PAYBACK TO THE CITY BY GENERATING ELECTRICITY DURING THE HIGHEST COST HERE, WHICH THE HOMEOWNER THEN HAS TO PAY FOR.

THAT

[01:20:01]

WAS A MOUTHFUL, SO, OKAY.

UM, SO THE PREMISE THERE IS THAT SOLAR CUSTOMERS ARE CONTRIBUTING MORE TO THE GENERAL FUND, TRANSFER TO THE CITY.

I, I THINK SO.

IT SEEMS POSSIBLE THAT A HIGH SOLAR USER PRODUCER IS ACTUALLY SUBSIDIZING THE SURPLUS AND PAYBACK TO THE CITY BY GENERATING ELECTRICITY IN THE HIGHEST COST HERE, WHICH THE HOMEOWNER IS PAYING FOR.

IF, IF THEY'RE, IF THEY'RE OFFSETTING THE HIGHEST COST TIER, THEN AS I EXPLAINED BEFORE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE OFFSETTING THE, UM, ABILITY FOR AUSTIN ENERGY TO RECOVER FIXED COSTS THROUGH THE VOLUMETRIC CHARGE.

THEY'RE RECEIVING A VALUE THAT EXCEEDS THE AVOIDED COST TO THE UTILITY.

SO THAT IS DETRIMENTAL TO THE UTILITIES REVENUES AND THEY'RE RECEIVING THE SUBSIDY, NOT THE CITY OF AUSTIN.

I, OKAY.

UM, OKAY.

OKAY.

THAT WAS, SO THAT WAS THE END OF COMMISSIONER ACCESSORY'S COMMENTS.

UM, I THINK I WOULD, I, I GUESS I'M STILL NOT QUITE SURE I UNDERSTAND THE NUANCES HERE, BUT THE THING THAT I'M SEEING THAT'S OUTSIDE OF THIS IS THAT LIKE A TIME OF USE RATE AND LIKE BATTERY TARIFF OR INCENTIVES SEEM TO BE SOMETHING WHICH I, I KNOW YOU JUST SAID THAT YOU GUYS ARE LOOKING INTO THAT, AND SO THAT'S EXCITING AND I APPRECIATE THAT.

MM-HMM.

.

BUT THAT SEEMS TO BE THE BIG THING THAT'S MISSING FOR, FOR ME.

LIKE, I HAVE CUSTOMERS IN HOUSTON WHO ARE WORKING WITH BASE POWER, WHICH IS SIGNIFICANTLY SUBSIDIZING THESE 30 KILOWATT HOUR BATTERIES.

SO LIKE THREE TESLA POWERWALLS THAT THEY GET FOR $3,000, AND THEN THE COMPANY DOES ENERGY ARBITRAGE USING THOSE, THE HOMEOWNER GETS THE RESILIENCY BENEFIT.

SO IT'S JUST LIKE GRID SMOOTHING, YOU KNOW, AND I KNOW THAT THAT'S DEREGULATED, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS THAT THOSE DEREGULATED MARKETS HAVE ACCESS TO AROUND ENERGY ARBITRAGE YEAH.

THAT WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO, EVEN IF IT'S JUST LIKE TIME OF USE OR SOME OTHER INCENTIVE FOR LIKE EVS, BATTERIES, HEAT PUMPS, ALL THAT STUFF.

LIKE WHERE WE CAN DO DEMAND SHIFTING IF THE CUSTOMER, UH, WANTS TO.

RIGHT.

IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING.

WELL, NO, I, I DON'T DISAGREE.

AND I THINK THAT, UM, THAT SAID, IF TO SUPPLY SOME KIND OF A RATE TOWARDS, FOR, FOR TO INFLUENCE CUSTOMERS TO OPERATE BATTERIES IN THE WAY THAT WE NEED THEM IS ONE APPROACH AND ONE THAT WE'RE EXPLORING.

AND THE OTHER ONE IS TO, YOU KNOW, PROVIDE A CUSTOMER BENEFIT TO ALLOW US ACCESS TO THE CONTROL OF THE BATTERY IN A WAY THAT PRODUCES THE MOST AVOIDED COSTS POSSIBLE ON IN THE MARKET.

AND SO I THINK THAT A CUSTOMER MAY BE NEUTRAL DEPENDING ON THE, THE VALUE PROPOSITION TO THE CUSTOMER.

IT IDEALLY THEY ARE, UM, OR MAYBE EVEN BENEFIT MORE IN THE, THE USE CASE WHERE WE'RE ACHIEVING MORE AVOIDED COSTS.

MM-HMM.

.

YEAH.

AND I THINK WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S YEAH, LIKE A TIME OF USE PRICE RATE OR LIKE YOU GUYS HAVING SOME, YOU KNOW, ACCESS TO THE BATTERY, THAT MAKES SENSE.

BUT I STILL THINK IT'S LIKE THE FACT THAT I CAN GO HOME AND PLUG IN MY EV AT SIX O'CLOCK AT NIGHT AND I'M PAYING THE SAME AMOUNT IS IF I PLUG IT IN AT NOON OR TWO IN THE MORNING IS KIND OF INSANE TO ME.

RIGHT.

LIKE THAT THAT'S, THAT WE HAVE TO ADOPT A TIME OF USE RATE.

YEAH.

BASICALLY.

OR THAT THERE OR SOME OTHER MECHANISM.

YOU KNOW, I, I, I UNDERSTAND IT'S MORE COMPLICATED TO HAVE LIKE ONE THING FOR THE BATTERY AND ONE THING FOR THE EV AND ONE THING FOR THE HOME, AND I GUESS Y'ALL CAN FIGURE THAT OUT, BUT LIKE SOME WAY WHERE YOU'RE FLAGGING TO CUSTOMERS THAT IT'S IMPORTANT AND HOW THAT'S CONTROLLED, I THINK IS UP TO YOU GUYS.

YEAH.

WELL, I'M NOT, I'M NOT HERE TO SPEAK TO THE CONSUMPTION RATE SO MUCH, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE OTHER UTILITIES THAT HAVE TIME OF USE RATES FOR RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS.

WE'VE DONE SOME EXPLORATION ON THAT.

I THINK THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, A LOT, ONE OF THE VIEWS THAT I'VE HEARD A LOT ABOUT TIME OF USE RATES IS THAT, UM, IF YOU ALLOW A CUSTOMER TO SELF-SELECT INTO A TIME OF USE RATE, THEN IT'S NOT GONNA BE NEARLY AS EFFECTIVE AS IF IT'S ACROSS THE BOARD.

UM, SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT IS, THERE'S A LOT THAT GOES INTO RATE MAKING ESPECIALLY, UM, FOR RESIDENTIAL CONSUMPTION.

UM, AND I'M CERTAINLY NOT AN EXPERT ON THAT.

BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK, I THINK THAT WE'RE IN A PLACE WHERE WE'RE CONSIDERING, UM, DIFFERENT RATES.

UM, AND WE ARE, WE ALSO WANT TO PROMOTE BATTERIES AND UNDERSTAND THEIR VALUE AND, AND HOW THEY, WHAT AND THEIR IMPORTANCE IN THE TRAJECTORY TOWARDS A CARBON FREE OR CARBON NEUTRAL, UM, YOU KNOW, OUTCOME, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE.

SO WE'LL BE LOOKING AT ALL THIS STUFF.

UM, BUT YEAH, WE APPRECIATE THAT.

COOL.

THANK YOU.

OKAY, SO I

[01:25:01]

ACTUALLY HAD A QUESTION, AND THAT IS BECAUSE YOU PEOPLE HAVE TALKED WAY OVER MY HEAD FOR A LONG TIME ABOUT THIS ISSUE, AND I NEED IT DUMBED DOWN JUST A SMIDGE.

I'M GOING TO USE A HYPOTHETICAL EXAMPLE.

THE 900 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE, OKAY.

IT CONSUMES NO ENERGY AND ONLY PRODUCES THE 900, UH, KILOWATTS OR WHAT, WHATEVER THE NUMBER WAS, IT WAS ON PAGE FOUR MM-HMM.

, TELL ME WHAT THE DIFFERENCE IS AND WHAT THIS PERSON IS GOING TO SEE ON A BILL.

A DOCUMENT FROM AUSTIN ENERGY BETWEEN NET METERING IN VALUE OF SOLAR.

I THINK THAT WOULD HELP ME UNDERSTAND A LITTLE BIT BETTER.

SO I IMAGINE THEY, BASICALLY, IT'S JUST, IT'S A PILE OF SOLAR PANELS, 900 KILOWATTS.

IT DEPENDS ON THE NET ENERGY POLICY, BUT LET'S SAY IT'S THE SAME POLICY THAT WAS IN MY, MY EXAMPLE, THEN THEY'RE GONNA GET, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE THEIR MONTHLY SERVICE CHARGE, UM, ON BOTH BILLS.

THEN, UM, THE SOLAR PRODUCTION FOR THE NET ENERGY METERING CUS UM, CUSTOMER IS GONNA BE, UH, CREDITED AT WHOLESALE BECAUSE IT'S ALL PUSHED BACK TO THE GRID.

AND THEN THE, THROUGH VALUE OF SOLAR, THE SOLAR PRODUCTION WOULD ALL BE CREDITED AT THE VALUE OF SOLAR RATE THROUGH NET METERING.

TYPICALLY, THEY'LL ALLOW CREDITS, YOU KNOW, LIKE SAY THEY, THEY, THEY'RE, THAT'S ALL CREDIT WELL AFTER IT PAYS OFF THE, THE, UM, BASE CHARGE.

UM, AND, AND THAT ROLLS FORWARD WITH A LOT OF TIMES, NET NET ENERGY METERING PROGRAMS WILL, UM, EITHER DISSOLVE THAT OR CASH IT OUT AT THE END OF THE YEAR.

UH, WITH THE VALUE OF SOLAR, THAT CREDIT BUILDS UP AND RUNS ON INDEFINITELY.

SO AS LONG AS THAT CUSTOMER KEEPS THEIR ACCOUNT, THEY KEEP A CREDIT ON THEIR ACCOUNT, IT KEEPS PAYING FOR THEIR CHARGES UNTIL IT'S FULLY DEPLETED.

OKAY.

SO I WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO, UH, ESSENTIALLY HAVE A GET RICH QUICK SCHEME BY IMPLEMENTING, UH, A BUNCH OF SOLAR PANELS ON MY LAWN, FOR EXAMPLE.

THAT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE NOT THROUGH CASE THERE'S ENOUGH VALUE THERE CASE.

YEAH, THAT'S OKAY.

THAT'S NOT THE INTENT OF EITHER OF THE BRAKES.

OKAY.

I, I JUST, LIKE I SAID THERE, THERE'S A LOT OF STUFF GOING BACK AND FORTH AND I JUST NEEDED IT DUMBED DOWN.

SO I, I THANK YOU FOR THAT.

NO PROBLEM.

UH, I HAD COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN, WHO HAS BEEN WAITING VERY PATIENTLY.

THANK YOU.

AND THANK YOU MR. HARVEY FOR THIS PRESENTATION.

UM, AND, AND COMPLIMENTS TO COMMISSIONER SA AND ABSENT FOR HIS PERSISTENCE ON THIS ISSUE, I JUST WANTED TO COMMENT BRIEFLY THAT WHILE I FULLY SUPPORT, UM, COMMISSIONER FARMERS AND YOUR ENTHUSIASM, I DON'T WANNA PUT IT ON YOU, KIM, IF YOU'RE NOT ENTHUSIASTIC, BUT I FULLY SUPPORT THE DESIRE TO MOVE TO VALUE TO, TO TIME OF USE RATES, PARTICULARLY FOR A, ANYONE WITH AN ELECTRIC VEHICLE.

AND I WOULD LIKE TO ENCOURAGE, UM, Y'ALL TO GO FULL SPEED AHEAD WITH, WITH A VIRTUAL POWER PLANT THAT INCORPORATES BOTH BATTERIES AND, UM, SORRY, GETTING TIRED AND LOOSEN MY BRAIN HERE AND, AND DEMAND RESPONSE.

I DISAGREE WITH COMMISSIONER ARIUS THAT WE SHOULD BE ENCOURAGING TRYING TO INCORPORATE BATTERIES INTO THIS VALUE OF SOLAR RATE BECAUSE WE WANNA VERY DIFFERENT KIND OF BEHAVIOR WITH BATTERIES THAN VALUE OF SOLAR.

VALUE OF SOLAR IS PURELY GOING, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH, WITH TIME OF USE AND THE VALUE OF INDIVIDUAL KILOWATT HOURS WHEN THEY ARE BEING GENERATED.

AND WE REALLY NEED THE VALUE OF BATTERIES IS THAT WE CAN USE THEM AT TIMES WHEN THEY OFFER MOST VALUE TO THE GRID AS A WHOLE OR TO COST AVOIDANCE.

SO IT'S A REALLY DIFFERENT PROPOSITION AND NEEDS TO BE DESIGNED AND COMPENSATED IN A VERY DIFFERENT FASHION THAN A VALUE OF SOLAR RATE.

IF WE DID A GOOD VALUE OF SOLAR RATE, WE COULD THEN INCORPORATE POTENTIALLY SOME OF THE SOLAR COMPENSATION UNDER THAT.

BUT YOU CAN'T GO BACKWARD AND PUSH BATTERIES UNDER VALUE SOLAR IF YOU WANT THE BATTERIES TO BEHAVE PROPERLY IN WAYS THAT HELP THE COMMUNITY AND THE BATTERY OWNER AND THE GRID MOST EFFECTIVELY.

SO THANKS FOR YOUR CONTINUED WORK ON THIS AND IF THERE'S ANYTHING I CAN DO TO SUPPORT Y'ALL IN DEVELOPING IT, PLEASE LET ME KNOW.

THANK YOU.

COMMISSIONER DAVIS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE PRESENTATION.

UM, REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

UH, IT'S HELPING TO INCREASE MY UNDERSTANDING.

IT'S NOT QUITE UP AT THE LEVEL, BUT, UM, ONE QUESTION I HAVE IS, CAN YOU TALK TO ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE KILOWATT CAPS? WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF A

[01:30:01]

CAP AND WHO'S IMPLEMENTING THAT? WHAT'S, HOW, WHAT DOES THAT SERVE? UM, I DIDN'T SEE THE, THE BENEFIT OF THAT.

I THINK THAT, UM, UTILITIES AND, AND WE ALSO HAD, WHEN WE HAD NET METERING, WE HAD A 20 KW CAP.

UM, YOU KNOW, I WASN'T AROUND FOR THE, FOR THE, UM, THEORY ON THAT RATE MAKING POLICY, BUT I THINK IT WAS TO REDUCE THE POSSIBILITY OF THEIR UNDER RECOVERY.

UM, AND, AND THAT IS A BIG PROBLEM FOR UTILITIES THAT ARE IN DEEP ON NET METERING AND WHY YOU'VE SEEN ALL OF THE MOVEMENT ON NET NET NET METERING POLICIES IN CALIFORNIA AND BEYOND.

IF, IF I MAY OFFER A PIECE OF CONTEXT ON NET METERING CAPS, WHEN WE WROTE THE ORIGINAL NET METERING POLICY AT THE PUBLIC UTILITY COMMISSION TO APPLY TO, THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO AUSTIN ENERGY, BUT IT APPLIED TO ALL OF THE VERTICAL INTEGRATED UTILITIES AT THE TIME.

OUR, WE SET A LIMIT OF, UM, THAT THE UTILITY ONLY HAD TO OFFSET COORDINATE METERING PURPOSES, THE AMOUNT OF SOLAR GENERATION THAT EQUALED THE MAXIMUM, NO, THE MINIMUM OF THE HOST SITE.

SO THAT IF, BECAUSE WE WERE WORRIED AT THE TIME, THIS WAS 20 PLUS YEARS AGO, THAT THERE WOULD BE MORE GENERATION ON, UM, THE, A HOUSE OUT IN A DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM THAT WASN'T DESIGNED FOR FEEDING ELECTRICITY TWO WAY INTO THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM.

SO THERE WAS SOME CONCERN THAT ORIGINALLY THAT THAT TOO MUCH TOO LARGE VOLT TAGS DIS ACROSS THE GRID COULD BE OVERWHELMING THE CAPABILITY OF THE GRID TO MANAGE IT.

THOSE DAYS ARE PROBABLY LONG GONE BECAUSE THERE'S MUCH MORE SOPHISTICATED ENGINEERING OUT THERE TODAY AND, AND BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THIS WORKS ON THE GRID.

AND WE CAN MANAGE MORE EXPORT OF PV INTO THE SYSTEM.

BUT AT THE TIME THAT VIEW FOR AMONG REGULATORS AND UTILITIES GOT A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF LEGS AND IT CREATED DEFACTO CAP TO HOW MUCH YOU, UH, A PHOTOVOLTAIC CUSTOMER WAS ALLOWED TO INSTALL.

THANKS.

THANK YOU.

THANKS, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.

, VICE CHAIR.

ROBS, WHEN ARE YOU GONNA BRING US THE FIRST DRAFT OF YOUR BATTERY PROGRAM, MR. MR. HARVEY? WHEN ARE WE BRINGING THAT? IS THAT, WAS THAT? I CAN'T, I, I CAN'T WAIT.

ME NEITHER.

WE'LL DO, WE WILL GET THERE.

WE'RE GETTING THERE.

UH, NETA? NO, NOT AT THE MOMENT, UNLESS, UH, RICHARD GENESEE, UH, VICE PRESIDENT OF CUSTOMER ENERGY SOLUTIONS, WE CAN SAY THAT.

UH, BATTERIES ARE A PART OF THE SOLAR FOR ALL DEPLOYMENT THAT WE'RE DOING.

AND AS YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE $31.59 MILLION GRANT THAT WE WERE AWARDED.

UM, SO 3000, APPROXIMATELY 3000 SOLAR AND BATTERY INSTALLATIONS WILL BE, UM, PART OF THAT GRANT GOING INTO LOW INCOME, UH, AREAS, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, JUSTICE 40 AREAS.

SO, AND THAT'S TO BE DEPLOYED A, UH, A YEAR AFTER THE MONEY GETS AWARDED.

SO THAT'S A ROUGH TIMING FOR YOU.

UH, I CAN'T GET MORE SPECIFIC THAN THAT.

AND THERE, THAT'S NOT THE ONLY BATTERY THING WE'RE PURSUING, OBVIOUSLY, BUT JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF, UH, SOMETHING THAT WE'RE DEPLOYING THAT WILL HAVE, UH, A LOT OF BATTERIES ALL, UH, AVAILABLE TO AUSTIN ENERGY AND CONTROLLABLE BY AUSTIN ENERGY, UH, WILL BE IN THAT TIMEFRAME.

THANK YOU.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION? THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

THANK YOU.

MOVING IN ON, MOVING

[8. Presentation by Texas Gas Service regarding a quarterly update of the Central Texas Energy Efficiency Program by Jasmine King-Bush, Energy Efficiency Program Manager]

ON IN OUR AGENDA TO ITEM NUMBER EIGHT, PRESENTATION BY TEXAS GAS SERVICE.

GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS.

UM, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME THIS EVENING.

UM, UM, MY NAME IS CHRISTIE BELL.

I'M THE SUPERVISOR OF THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY

[01:35:01]

PROGRAM, UM, AT TEXAS GAS SERVICE.

UM, AS YOU MAY RECALL, I WAS HERE, UM, BACK IN FEBRUARY WITH MY BOSS, JASMINE KING BUSH, UM, WHEN WE PROVIDED, UM, OUR LAST QUARTERLY UPDATE.

UM, SO TONIGHT I'M HERE.

I'LL BE GIVING YOU AN OVERVIEW OF OUR PROGRAM ACTIVITIES FOR THE FIRST QUARTER OF 2024.

UM, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

SO FIRST OFF, I'D LIKE TO TAKE A MINUTE TO DESCRIBE, UM, HOW TEXAS GAS SERVICE AND OUR ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM STARTED OFF THE YEAR.

UM, IT SHOULD COME, IT SHOULD COME AS NO SURPRISE, UM, THAT WE'RE EXPERIENCING CONSIDERABLE GROWTH IN THE SEC CENTRAL TEXAS REGION.

AND SO, UM, AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS YEAR, WE EXPANDED INTO THE CITIES OF PFLUGERVILLE TO OUR NORTHEAST AND UH, MUSTANG RIDGE TO OUR SOUTHEAST.

UM, THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM ALSO ADDED, UM, ANOTHER PROGRAM ASSISTANT POSITION TO OUR TEAM IN JANUARY TO HELP US ADMINISTER THE PROGRAM.

WE CURRENTLY SERVE ABOUT 270,000 CUSTOMERS IN THE CENTRAL TEXAS AREA WITHIN 19 CITIES, INCLUDING AUSTIN.

AND LASTLY, THE ENERGY EFFICIENCIES.

TOTAL ANNUAL BUDGET FOR 2024 IS 3.5 MILLION AS IT WAS, UM, SET BACK IN 2022 AND 2023.

NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

SO THIS SLIDE HERE SHOWS A BAR CHART OF THE ACTUAL PROGRAM DOLLARS SPENT IN THE FIRST QUARTER OF 2024, UM, WHICH ARE, WHICH IS IN BLUE THERE, UM, AND HOW THESE AMOUNTS COMPARE TO THE REMAINING BUDGET FOR THE YEAR, WHICH ARE THERE IN ORANGE.

AS YOU CAN SEE, TOTALS ARE BROKEN OUT FOR THE FA THE FOUR, UH, MAIN PROGRAM CATEGORIES WE OFFER, WHICH ARE RESIDENTIAL RETROFIT AND NEW CONSTRUCTION, COMMERCIAL AND THE FREE EQUIPMENT PROGRAM.

UH, THE TOP ROW THERE IS A COMBINATION OF ALL THE CONSERVATION PROGRAMS, UM, THAT WE OFFER.

NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.

UM, NEXT I'D LIKE TO HIGHLIGHT OUR PARTNERSHIP WITH OUR THIRD PARTY VENDOR CLEAR RESULT, UM, WHO WE WORK WITH TO PROVIDE OUR COMMERCIAL DIRECT INSTALLATION PROGRAM.

THE CLEAR RESULT TEAM OFFERS OUR COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS CUSTOMIZED STRATEGIES FOR IMPROVING, UH, THE EFFICIENCY OF THEIR PLACES OF BUSINESS WHILE REDUCING THEIR UTILITY BILLS AND CARBON FOOTPRINT.

UM, TYP TYPICAL PARTICIPANTS ARE MULTI-FAMILY PROPERTIES, NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATIONS, CHURCHES AND MOTELS.

UM, SO AFTER THE CLEAR RESULT TEAM PERFORMS, UM, AN ENERGY AS ASSIST, UH, ENERGY ASSESSMENT, UH, THEY WORK WITH THE PARTICIPANTS TO INSTALL VARIOUS ENERGY SAVING MEASURES, UM, SUCH AS WEATHER STRIPPING, UH, LOW FLOW FAUCET, AERATORS, AND SHOWER HEADS.

AS SOME OF THE PICTURES ON THIS SLIDE, UM, HELP TO ILLUSTRATE.

NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

SO THIS SLIDE, UM, CONTINUES TO HIGHLIGHT THE, THE COMMERCIAL PROGRAM.

SO IT SHOWS A MAP HERE OF THE MEASURES THAT HAVE BEEN INSTALLED FOR OUR COMMERCIAL PROGRAM PARTICIPANTS IN THE AUSTIN AREA, UM, DURING THE FIRST QUARTER OF 2024.

AND, UH, THE CHART ABOVE, UH, THE MAP SHOWS AN EXAMPLE OF A PROJECT THAT CLEAR RESULT COMPLETED IN FEBRUARY FOR A MOTEL IN SOUTH AUSTIN.

UH, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

THIS, UH, NEXT SLIDE HERE HIGHLIGHTS THE FREE EQUIPMENT PROGRAM, UM, TEXAS GAS SERVICE ADMINISTERS.

SO THIS BUBBLE MAP HERE DEPICTS AREAS OF TOWN WHERE, UM, PARTICIPANTS BENEFITED MOST FROM THIS PROGRAM.

AS YOU CAN SEE, UH, THE LARGER BLUE BUBBLES ARE LOCATED ALONG THE EASTERN CORRIDOR OF IH 35 AND, UH, SOUTH AUSTIN.

SO OVERALL, DURING THE FIRST QUARTER OF 2024, TEXAS GAS SERVICE REPLACED 47, UH, NATURAL GAS APPLIANCES AND SPENT 142,000 IN PROGRAM FUNDS TO HELP THOSE IN NEED IN OUR COMMUNITY.

UM, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

SO THIS SLIDE CAPTURES, UM, ONE OF THE EDUCATION AND OUTREACH EFFORTS.

OUR, UH, TEAM WAS ENGAGED WITH, UH, DURING THE FIRST QUARTER.

UM, WE COMPILED AND PREPARED OUR 2023 ANNUAL REPORT, UH, WHICH DETAILS THE RESULTS OUR PRO OUR PROGRAM ACHIEVED LAST YEAR.

UM, IT WAS MADE AVAILABLE TO THE CITY OF AUSTIN AND OTHER CENTRAL TECH TEXAS CITIES ON APRIL 30TH, UM, AND CAN BE FOUND ON THE TEXAS GAS SERVICE WEBSITE.

NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.

[01:40:04]

SO I THINK THAT WRAPS UP MY PRESENTATION.

UM, I'M AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS.

UH, I, I'LL START OFF WITH THE QUESTION.

I DO SEE YOU COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.

UM, WHAT COMPENSATION DOES CLEAR RESULT GET FOR HELPING ADMINISTER THIS PROGRAM? UM, THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION AND I THINK MY BOSS KNOWS BETTER THAN ME, .

SO I'LL LET HER TAKE OVER.

JASMINE KUSH ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM MANAGER, TEXAS GAS SERVICE, UH, COMMISSIONER STONE, WE HAVE A PARTNERSHIP WITH THEM THAT'S UNDER CONTRACT.

UH, SO THEY PROVIDE THE SERVICE AND IS A PART OF THE MEASURE COST THAT THEY BUILD TO THE PROGRAM.

EMBEDDED IN THAT IS THE ADMINISTRATION COST.

SO IF I LOOK AT SLIDE NUMBER FIVE HERE YES, SIR.

WHERE WE DID THIS, UH, THE VILLAGE MOTOR IN.

YES, SIR.

AND I SEE A $7,900 TOTAL INCENTIVE.

YES.

WHAT WAS THEIR CUT? UH, THAT WOULD BE WHAT THE TOTAL INCENTIVE WAS FOR THE, THE VALUE FOR THE RECIPIENT.

BUT WHAT WAS INVOICED TO US MAY HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT, AND I CAN GET THAT FOR YOU.

OKAY.

YEAH, I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE WE'VE HAD DISCUSSIONS BEFORE ABOUT THE ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS YES.

ASSOCIATED WITH THESE PROGRAMS BEFORE.

YES, SIR.

SO, UM, OKAY.

UH, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN HAD RAISED A HAND, SO WE'LL GO TO HER NEXT.

THANK YOU, SIR.

I'M LOOKING AT SLIDE SIX WHERE YOU REVIEW THE INSTALLATIONS IN THE LOW INCOME FREQUENT PROGRAM IN Q1 2024.

AND I'M WONDERING WHAT APPLIANCE, WHAT OF 47 OF APPLIANCES WERE REPLACED AT AVERAGE? COST OF OVER $3,000 PER APPLIANCE.

I MEAN, I KNOW THAT THE CLEAR RESULT, THE COST OF FINDING CUSTOMERS AND SERVING CUSTOMERS AND THE INSTALLATION, ALL OF THAT IS PART OF IT, BUT STILL $3,000 PLUS PER APPLIANCE, THAT'S EXTRAORDINARILY EXPENSIVE.

SO I'M WONDERING WHAT IT IS YOU'RE HANDING OUT TO LOW INCOME CUSTOMERS AND WHETHER WE CAN AFFORD YOU TO KEEP DOING THAT.

THANK YOU COMMISSIONER FOR THAT QUESTION.

UH, SO THE COST FOR THE REPLACEMENT IS NOT SOLELY THE, THE APPLIANCE COSTS.

IT IS ALSO INSTALLATION AND ANY WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO PERFORM THE INSTALL.

SO IF A CONTRACTOR ENTERS A HOME, UH, THAT PREVIOUSLY HAD A NATURAL GAS WATER HEATER TANK TYPE, AND THEY FIND THAT THE CLOSET THAT THE, THE, UM, NATURAL GAS WATER HEATER WAS HOUSED IN IS IN DISREPAIR, IT'S NOT SUITABLE FOR INSTALLATION, THEY WILL MAKE THAT REPAIR AS WELL.

OKAY.

SO THOSE COSTS CAN FLUCTUATE DEPENDING UPON WHAT'S IN THERE.

UM, THE OTHER THING THAT, UH, IS I GUESS, UH, IS BENEFICIAL FOR MENTIONING IS THAT THERE IS A REVIEW ANNUALLY OF THE COSTS THAT THE AUSTIN AREA CONTRACTORS CHARGE, UH, BASED UPON ITEM OF WORK, SO UNIT OF WORK.

UM, AND THAT HAS INCREASED EXPONENTIALLY WE'VE SEEN IN THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS.

UM, IT IS, IT IS, UM, A CONSTANT DISCUSSION, UH, HOW DO WE KEEP THE COSTS OF THE PROGRAM AS LOW AS POSSIBLE, POSSIBLE WHILE ALSO HONORING THE RATES THAT THE LOCAL CONTRACTORS ARE CHARGING.

SO WE DO, UH, A SURVEY, THEY SEND THEM BACK TO US, AND THEN WE TAKE ABOUT AN AVERAGE OF A COST, AND THERE ARE CONTRACTORS THAT HAVE CHOSEN NO LONGER TO, UH, PARTNER WITH THE PROGRAM BECAUSE IT DOESN'T SERVE THEM FINANCIALLY.

OUCH.

SO THANK YOU FOR, FOR THAT ADDITIONAL INFORMATION.

LET ME ASK FURTHER THOUGH, WHAT OTHER KINDS OF, BESIDES WATER HEATERS, WHAT OTHER APPLIANCES IS THIS PROGRAM INSTALLING? UM, AND DO YOU DO MULTIPLE APPLIANCES IN A SINGLE LOW INCOME HOUSEHOLD? YES, MA'AM.

OR IS IT JUST ONE OF OH, OKAY.

TELL, TELL US MORE, PLEASE.

YES, MA'AM.

SO WE WILL, UH, REPLACE A NATURAL GAS FURNACE, NATURAL GAS STOVE, UH, NATURAL GAS DRYER, UH, WHAT WAS EXISTING IN THE HOME THAT IS IN DISREPAIR OR IS NO LONGER WORKING.

UM, WE WILL, UM, GO IN AND, UM, ASSESS THAT, UM, IT GOES THROUGH REVIEW AND IF IT'S, UM, SOMETHING THAT'S FEASIBLE MAKES SENSE, UH, WE WILL GO AHEAD AND REPLACE THAT.

THANK YOU.

SO OF THESE 47 APPLIANCES THAT WERE INSTALLED IN Q1, DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY ACTUAL FAMILIES WERE SERVED AMONG THOSE 47 APPLIANCES? NO.

UH, WE CAN DO A PREMISE COUNT, UM, AND GET THAT INFORMATION FOR YOU, BUT IT'S, IT'S GENERALLY, BUT PRESUMABLY IT WAS NOT 47 HOUSEHOLDS.

IT WAS CORRECT.

YOU KNOW, 35 OR 40.

CORRECT.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

YES, MA'AM.

THANK YOU.

UH, MY, MY NEXT QUESTION WAS, DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH TOTAL SPEND WAS ON THIS PROGRAM FOR, UH, 2023?

[01:45:04]

I DON'T WANNA MAKE UP A NUMBER, BUT THE S THE BUDGET WAS 300,000 FOR THE LOW INCOME PROGRAM.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT LOW INCOME PROGRAM COMMISSIONER, CHAIRMAN, UH, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE ENTIRE ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM.

OH, OKAY.

OKAY.

UM, I'M GONNA GRAB NUMBERS FROM MY HEAD, BUT I'LL, I'LL GET YOU FIRM NUMBERS.

I WANNA SAY ABOUT 1.7 MILLION, UH, WAS DISTRIBUTED BACK TO THE CUSTOMERS IN EITHER ADMINISTRATIVE, UH, IN REBATES, INCENTIVES, OR WAS BILLED TO THE PROGRAM IN ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS.

AND HOW MUCH WAS TAKEN, HOW MUCH WAS CHARGED TO CUSTOMERS AS PART OF THIS PROGRAM WITHIN, UH, THE RATES, THE RATE WAS REDUCED FROM A DOLLAR 19 TO 74 CENTS, UH, FLAT RATE IN 2022 STARTING IN JANUARY.

PER MONTH? YES, SIR.

PER MONTH.

UM, AND SO, UH, THAT BRINGS THE COLLECTION TO ABOUT TWO AND A HALF.

IT FLUCTUATES A LITTLE BIT BASED UPON THE CUSTOMER COUNT FLUCTUATIONS ANNUALLY.

SO THEN THERE WAS A SURPLUS LAST YEAR THERE WAS A SURPLUS? YES, SIR.

OKAY.

AND THEN, SO IF I LOOK HERE AND I SEE MATH IS HARD, I DON'T KNOW WHAT, WHAT DO WE HAVE HERE FOR A BUDGET THIS YEAR? IT LOOKS LIKE ABOUT 4 MILLION.

3.5? YES, SIR.

OKAY.

UH, DOES THAT INCLUDE SURPLUS FUNDS FROM LAST YEAR OR WOULD YOU BE LOOKING TO COMPRESS THE RATE AGAIN AS PART OF THAT WHENEVER THE NEXT CYCLE OR REVIEW? I THINK YOU'RE ON A TWO YEAR CYCLE, IF I REMEMBER.

THREE YEAR CYCLE.

THREE YEAR CYCLE.

MM-HMM.

OR WOULD YOU LOOK TO BASICALLY DO A CORRECTION AT THAT POINT? THAT IS, THAT IS THE, THE APPROACH THAT WE HAVE TAKEN IS WE WILL DO CYCLE CORRECTIONS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE A BURN RATE THAT'S APPROPRIATE.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS FROM ANY OF THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS? NO.

ALL RIGHTY.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

MOVING

[9. Discussion regarding the amendments to the Austin Energy Code.]

BACK INTO OUR AGENDA, WE'RE ON ITEM NUMBER NINE, DISCUSSION REGARDING AMENDMENTS TO THE AUSTIN ENERGY CODE.

I BELIEVE THIS IS, UH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS.

UM, I HAVE NOT TOO LONG AGO, MAYBE A COUPLE WEEKS AGO, I RECEIVED AN INVITATION, UH, FROM, UH, THE AUSTIN ENERGY GREEN BUILDING PROGRAM TO, UH, SUBMIT IDEAS FOR CHANGING THE, UH, ENERGY CODE.

AND I SUBMITTED ONE IDEA, WHICH I HAVE BEEN SUBMITTING FOR YEARS NOW, WHICH IS TO CHANGE THE, UH, CODE TO, UH, REQUIRE HEAT PUMP WATER HEATERS WHEN, UH, THERE IS ONLY, WHEN THERE ARE ONLY SINGLE FUEL, UH, BUILDINGS.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT FUEL SWITCHING, THIS IS ABOUT EFFICIENCY IN ALL ELECTRIC BUILDINGS.

AND THIS KEEPS GETTING WHACKED.

SO I FINALLY SPOKE WITH THE ONE OF THE ATTORNEYS AT AUSTIN, UH, AT THE CITY OF AUSTIN AT THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT, UH, TO GET SOME SENSE OF WHY THIS MIGHT NOT BE LEGAL.

AND I'VE SPENT, UH, SOME CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF TIME OVER THE YEARS TRYING TO PARSE THIS OUT.

UH, THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT THE, TO DATE, THE, UH, CITY LEGAL DEPARTMENT HAS NOT GIVEN ME A DEFENSE FOR WHY WE CANNOT DO THIS.

UH, THEY, I A JUSTIFICATION FOR WHY THIS IS PERMITTED.

UH, I TALKED TO THEM JUST THIS WEEK AGAIN AND ASKED, YOU KNOW, WHERE IS THE REQUIREMENT? AND I, I DON'T WANT TO QUOTE THEM, UH, BUT THEY COULD NOT GIVE ME ANYTHING.

UH, I KNOW THAT THIS IS DONE IN OTHER STATES.

AND SO I ASKED FOR THIS AGENDA ITEM TO BE POSTED SO THAT I COULD SAY THIS IN PUBLIC.

AND ALSO FOR,

[01:50:01]

TO INVITE OTHER COMMISSIONERS IF THEY HAVE IDEAS ABOUT WHAT SHOULD BE IN THE ENERGY CODE TO ALSO CHIME IN, UH, ON THIS ITEM.

UM, I, THE STAFF IS, UH, GOING TO HAVE THEIR CONSIDERED OPINION, BUT, UH, UNLESS THEY CAN PROVIDE ME WITH A TRUE LEGAL REASON FOR WHY THIS CANNOT BE DONE, AND THEY HAVE NOT DONE IT TO DATE, UH, I'M NOT GONNA BE SATISFIED.

UH, WHEN ALL ELECTRIC STRIP HEATING IS USED, IT'S NOT ONLY THE CUSTOMER THAT PAYS FOR IT.

AND KEEP IN MIND THAT MANY OF THESE CUSTOMERS THAT PAY FOR THAT ARE LOWER INCOME.

THEY ARE IN MULTIFAMILY BUILDINGS WHERE THE BUILDER OF THE NEW UNIT SIMPLY DOESN'T CARE, UH, OR THEY'RE GONNA BE IN TRACTED HOMES.

SOMEONE WHO IS UPPER INCOME CAN PUT IN A HEAT PUMP WATER HEATER IF THEY CHOOSE TO, A CAPTIVE CUSTOMER IN AN APARTMENT CANNOT.

AND SO THEY ARE PENALIZED, BUT IT'S NOT JUST THEM.

UH, WHEN THEY USE THAT WATER HEATER AT FIVE IN THE AFTERNOON ON JULY 5TH, ALL OF US PAY FOR IT.

ALL OF US ARE BUYING THAT PEAK DEMAND ON THE MARKET.

UH, THIS HAS GOT TO STOP.

THE TECHNOLOGY IS THERE TO STOP IT, TO STOP IT COST EFFECTIVELY.

AND WITH THAT, I WILL, UM, I'VE SAID WHAT I NEED TO SAY.

UH, IF OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE THOUGHTS ON THIS OR OTHER ITEMS, UH, THAT THE ENERGY CODE SHOULD INCLUDE, PLEASE CHIME IN, OPEN TO THOUGHTS FROM OTHER COMMISSIONERS THERE BEING NONE.

MOVING ON TO ITEM

[10. Discussion regarding the Texas Gas Service conservation programs in upcoming franchise renewal as it relates to the Commission’s current purview.]

NUMBER 10 IN OUR AGENDA DISCUSSION REGARDING TEXAS GAS CONSERVATION PROGRAMS AND UPCOMING FRANCHISE RENEWAL.

UH, ONCE AGAIN, WE'LL TURN IT BACK OVER TO OUR VICE CHAIR.

UH, I HOPE YOU'LL BE A LITTLE MORE ANIMATED THAN YOU WERE ON THE LAST ISSUE.

UH, I WANTED THIS, THIS IS NOT UP FOR A VOTE.

I DO NOT HAVE A DRAFT ITEM AT THIS POINT.

I WANTED TO GET COMMISSIONER'S THOUGHTS ON THIS.

UM, ALL OF YOU HAVE HEARD ME, UH, SPEAK SEVERAL TIMES, IN FACT, ON THE MANY SHORTCOMINGS OF, UH, TEXAS GAS SERVICES CONS RESIDENTIAL CONSERVATION PROGRAM.

UH, I THINK THAT WE AS A COMMUNITY WOULD BE BETTER SERVED IF AUSTIN ENERGY RAN THEM.

YOU MAY THINK THAT'S, UM, AN UNPRECEDENTED IDEA, BUT HONESTLY, THAT'S HOW IT USED TO BE.

BACK IN, UH, 1985 WHEN THESE PROGRAMS WERE FIRST STARTED.

UH, THE GAS COMPANY, UH, HAD SOME PROGRAMS THAT WERE NOT COST EFFECTIVE.

THEY RECEIVED A LOT OF HARSH PUBLIC CRITICISM, AND THEY ULTIMATELY CHOSE TO WORK TO CONTRACT WITH THE CITY OF AUSTIN TO RUN THESE PROGRAMS. UH, AND THE CITY ACTUALLY RAN THEM FOR ABOUT 10 YEARS.

UH, I THINK THAT THIS SHOULD HAPPEN AGAIN.

I I WILL SAY WHAT I SAID AT THE LAST MEETING, I AM NOT OUT TO GET ANYBODY FIRED.

UH, I DO, THIS IS NOT, UH, PERSONAL ON ANY ONE PERSON WORKING AT THE GAS COMPANY, BUT THEIR PROGRAM, MANY OF THEIR, MUCH OF THEIR PROGRAM FUNDING FOR THE RESIDENTIAL SECTOR IS NOT COST EFFECTIVE.

I HAVE LOST CONFIDENCE THAT THEY ARE EVER GOING TO HAVE A COST EFFECTIVE PROGRAM.

UH, WE ARE IN A GOOD POSITION RIGHT NOW BECAUSE OF THE FRANCHISE TO EFFECTIVELY PLACE A

[01:55:01]

CONDITION ON THE COMPANY THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO CONTRACT WITH THE CITY OF AUSTIN IF THIS WERE DONE.

AND I AM ASKING COMMISSIONERS TO CONSIDER IT, UH, IWI AM OPEN TO YOUR FEEDBACK.

UH, I'LL ASK YOU A QUESTION THEN.

I SEE COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN WAS JUST A HAIR BEHIND ME.

UH, I, I WAS WAITING FOR THE PEN TO DROP .

UH, MY QUESTION FOR YOU IS, IS, UM, IN THE 88TH LEGISLATURE, THE HOUSE PASSED, UH, WELL ACTUALLY FULLY ENGROSSED HP 2263 RELATED TO GAS, CO RELATED TO ENERGY CONSERVATION PROGRAMS AND GAS IN PARTICULAR, WHICH VESTED ADMINISTRATION AND, UH, REGULATION OF THESE PROGRAMS WITH THE TEXAS RAILROAD COMMISSION.

SO MY QUESTION IS, IS DO YOU SEE THAT AS BEING AN IMPEDIMENT TO WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO TALK ABOUT HERE WITH HAVING A CITY IN THIS CASE? I MEAN, WE CAN CALL AUSTIN ENERGY WHAT IT IS, BUT BASICALLY YOU'RE SAYING THE CITY TO OVERSEE A PROGRAM WHICH VERY CLEARLY HAS, OR AT LEAST ACCORDING TO THIS LAW, WHICH HASN'T BEEN CHALLENGED YET, UM, HAS PURVIEW IN ANOTHER ENTITY.

I DON'T SEE THAT AS AN IMPEDIMENT BECAUSE IT'S A CONTRACTUAL RELATIONSHIP.

UH, AND OF COURSE, AUSTIN ENERGY, UH, EITHER BY ITSELF OR WITH THE GAS COMPANY, WOULD HAVE TO SUBMIT THE PROGRAM FORMALLY FOR APPROVAL.

UH, BUT I DO NOT SEE A PROBLEM.

OKAY.

COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN, THANK YOU.

I SHARE VICE CHAIR ROBIN'S VIEW THAT I HAVE MORE CONFIDENCE IN THE ABILITY AND COM OF, OF AUSTIN ENERGY TO RUN A FLEET OF COST EFFECTIVE ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAMS WITH THE CUSTOMER'S WELLBEING IN MIND THAN I DO IN THE, WHAT I HAVE SEEN TO DATE, WHICH I GRANT YOU, IS NOT EXTENSIVE OF TEXAS GAS COMPANIES ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAMS. I DO NOT.

I'M NOT A LAWYER.

I DON'T PLAY ONE ON TV.

I WILL NOT PRETEND TO BE ABLE TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION ABOUT THE RAILROAD COMMISSION'S REGULATION AND WHETHER IT WOULD, IT COULD EXTEND TO AUSTIN ENERGY IN THIS REGARD.

BUT I THINK COMMISSIONER ROBBINS IS PROBABLY CORRECT WHEN HE SAYS, UM, IF, IF WE COULD, AS A CONDITION OF EXTENDING THE FRANCHISE REQUIRE TEXAS GAS TO CONTRACT ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAMS DUE TO AUSTIN ENERGY, THEN IT WOULD BE A CONTRACTOR AND NOT BE SUBJECT TO AUSTIN.

I'M SORRY, TEXAS GAS WOULD BE THE ENTITY THAT IS REGULATED, NOT AUSTIN ENERGY PER SE.

UM, AND SO, SO I, I, I, I'M WITH, I'M SITTING WITH PAUL ON THIS ONE.

I THINK IT'S AN INTERESTING IDEA.

I HAVE NO IDEA WHETHER AUSTIN ENERGY IS GAME TO FULFILL THIS ROLE.

AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO ALL OF THE OTHER CITIES AND COUNTIES, ALL THE OTHER, THE 27 CITIES THAT AREN'T IN AUSTIN ENERGY SERVICE TERRITORY, THAT WHOSE CUSTOMERS DO NEED ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM SERVICES.

I IMAGINE THAT AUSTIN ENERGY CAN'T SERVE THEM, WOULDN'T SERVE THEM, IT WOULD NOT BE COST EFFECTIVE TO DO SO, BUT THAT WOULD STILL BE IN TEXAS GAS COMPANY'S PROBLEM TO SOLVE.

BUT IT, I THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD SERVICE TO THE MEMBERS OF THIS, OF AUSTIN ENERGY AND THE CITY OF AUSTIN TO BE BETTER SERVED BY AUSTIN ENERGY, ENERGY EFFICIENCY SERVICES FOR ON BEHALF OF THE GAS COMPANY.

THANK YOU.

UH, I HAVE CONFIDENCE THAT AUSTIN ENERGY COULD ADMINISTER THIS WELL, IF THEY CHOSE TO, IF THEY CHOOSE NOT TO.

UH, THERE ARE OTHER OFFICES IN THE CITY THAT CAN DO IT.

I THINK AUSTIN ENERGY WOULD BE, UH, THE BEST GROUP.

I HAVE OFFERED CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM ON THEIR PROGRAMS FROM TIME TO TIME.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN I DON'T RESPECT THEIR ABILITIES TO, UH, CARRY SUCH A TASK OUT.

SO, UH, VICE CHAIR, I HAVE A QUESTION ALSO, AND THAT IS COMING OUT OF THIS MEETING

[02:00:01]

TONIGHT, IF YOU WERE TO TRY TO COME UP WITH A RESOLUTION, A RECOMMENDATION FOR COUNSEL, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WHO DO YOU NEED TO HAVE IN A ROOM WITH YOU TO KIND OF HAMMER OUT THESE DETAILS SO THAT WE WOULD HAVE SOMETHING THAT WE COULD START WORKING WITH AND START ESSENTIALLY PITCHING? WELL, UM, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, I MIGHT ACTUALLY TALK TO THE GAS COMPANY ONCE OR TWICE.

NOT SURE WE'LL AGREE, BUT I WON'T DISMISS THEM.

I, I, I WON'T IGNORE THEM.

UH, OTHER THAN THAT, UM, I WOULD, UM, I MIGHT CONSULT, UH, THE CITY, UH, A CITY ATTORNEY ONCE OR TWICE JUST TO GET THEIR FEEL FOR IT.

AND THEN I GET TO TALK TO AT LEAST FOUR OTHER COMMISSIONERS, UH, ABOUT THIS.

UH, AND I WILL, I WILL BE DOING, DOING AND AS WELL AS CONVERSING WITH ALL COMMISSIONERS IN PUBLIC THAT I CAN, I CAN TALK TO LESS THAN A QUORUM IN PRIVATE.

WERE YOU SUGGESTING THAT I TALK TO ANYONE IN PARTICULAR? NO, I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE PROCESS WOULD BE ON THIS, BECAUSE I MEAN, HONESTLY, ONE THING I NOTICED THERE IS YOU FORGOT TO MENTION AUSTIN ENERGY IN TERMS OF PEOPLE THAT YOU WOULD BE CONSULTING.

UM, AND YOU KNOW, WE CAN ASSUME FOR PURPOSES OF THIS DISCUSSION, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT YOU WILL, AS PART OF THIS, YOU WILL CREATE A POSITION, DOLLARS WILL BE PUT THERE SOMEHOW THAT WILL COVER WHATEVER IT IS THAT IS SUPPOSED TO ADMINISTER THIS THING, RIGHT? I MEAN, SO WE KNOW THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME SORT OF FINANCIAL ALLOCATIONS GONNA HAVE TO BE THERE.

WE KNOW THAT THERE'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE EXPERTISE THERE.

WE KNOW THAT THERE'S GONNA HAVE TO BE, IN THIS CASE, I, I WAS JUST KIND OF LOOKING ON MY COMPUTER TO FIND OUT WHAT THIS THIS COMPANY IS THAT THEY'VE CONTRACTED WITH.

UH, BUT CLEAR RESULT.

YEAH.

BUT THERE WOULD ALSO NEED TO BE, THE ADDITIONAL INFRASTRUCTURE REQUIRED TO PROCESS EVEN JUST THE SIMPLE PAPER REBATES THAT YOU GET WHEN YOU GET A NEST THERMOSTAT OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE.

UM, AND SO I JUST WORRY THAT IT'S A LOT BIGGER.

AND SO I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE'RE GOING TO, TO RUSH, THAT IT'S SOMETHING WHERE YOU WILL TRY TO BRING IN THOSE PEOPLE IN SOME MEANINGFUL FORM SO THAT WE HAVE SOMETHING THAT WHEN IT COMES TO US, IT LOOKS GOOD AND IT'S ACTIONABLE, IS REALLY WHAT I'M TRYING TO GO FOR.

I DON'T WANT TO DO SOMETHING WHERE HALF THE PEOPLE ON THAT SIDE OF THE ROOM ARE GONNA BE ANGRY AT US AND THE OTHER HALF WILL ALSO BE ANGRY AT US ANYWAY.

UM, SO I'D REALLY LIKE TO BE ABLE TO FIND A WAY WHERE WE CAN DO IT.

RIGHT.

WELL, YOUR CRITICISM OF ME ABOUT NOT MENTIONING AUSTIN ENERGY IS VALID THOUGH.

I DID MENTION THEM JUST, UH, A COUPLE SENTENCES BEFORE.

SO YES, THEY, THEY WOULD BE INCLUDED, BUT AS I SAID, IF THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED, THEN I WOULD LOOK FOR ANOTHER HOME.

UM, AND YES, I, I, I APPRECIATE YOUR SUGGESTIONS, CHAIR, AND I WILL, UH, TRY AND PURSUE THEM AGAIN.

MY GOAL HERE IS TO GET FEEDBACK FROM COMMISSIONERS AT THIS POINT.

SO I'VE HEARD FROM YOU AND COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN AND, UM, UM, IS THERE ANYONE ELSE OKAY, THERE BEING NO FURTHER COMMENT FROM THE COMMISSION.

WE'LL MOVE ON INTO THE BALANCE OF OUR AGENDA, UH, FUTURE AGENDA

[FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]

ITEMS. IS THERE ANYTHING THAT PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO BRING UP IN FUTURE MEETINGS THAT WE NEED TO BE AWARE OF THAT WE COULD START PLANNING FOR? 'CAUSE IF NOT, WE CAN TAKE THE MONTH OF AUGUST OFF.

PROBABLY JUST THROWING THAT OUT AS A POSSIBILITY.

.

OKAY.

UM, SHOULD FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS COME UP? YOU GUYS KNOW THE RULE THAT YOU HAVE A DEADLINE THAT IS A HARD DEADLINE FOR, UH, SUBMISSIONS OF THINGS INTO OUR LIAISON'S OFFICE.

UM, SO PLEASE BE RESPECTFUL OF HER TIME AS WELL AS, UH, EVERYONE ELSE'S TIME.

I SEE SHANE HAS RAISED HIS HAND, SO MY STALLING WORKED.

COMMISSIONER JOHNSON, GO AHEAD, PLEASE.

UH, I, IT'S NOT AN AGENDA ITEM.

I JUST HAD A, A BRIEF ANNOUNCEMENT WHEN WE WERE DONE WITH THAT, WITH FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS. OKAY.

WELL I WAS GOING TO DO THAT, BUT I'M MORE THAN HAPPY TO LET YOU HAVE THE FLOOR INSTEAD.

BY ALL MEANS, COMMISSIONER JOHNSON,

[02:05:01]

GO AHEAD.

YEAH, THANK YOU.

UH, I JUST WANTED TO LET EVERYONE KNOW SINCE, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE'RE, UH, YOU KNOW, I CAN TALK TO EVERYBODY AT ONCE ON, UH, IN COMMISSION MEETINGS, UH, BUT UH, THIS WILL BE MY LAST RMC MEETING.

I'M ROLLING OFF THE COMMISSION.

UH, AND SO, UM, UH, COUNCIL RIVERA IS APPOINTING A NEW PERSON TO THIS, UH, POSITION THAT WHO WILL START, UH, AT THE NEXT MEETING, WHETHER THAT'S AUGUST OR, UH, THE FOLLOWING MONTH.

UM, AND SO YEAH, IT'S BEEN A PLEASURE SERVING WITH YOU ALL.

AND, UM, OF COURSE, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR WOULD LIKE TO, YOU KNOW, PICK MY BRAIN ABOUT DIFFERENT ISSUES SINCE I'VE BEEN ON HERE SINCE, UH, I THINK 2016, UH, LIKE EXACT, JUST OVER EXACTLY SIX YEARS.

UM, SO YEAH, UH, LET ME KNOW IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, AND I'M SURE I'LL BE AT FUTURE MEETINGS SPEAKING.

UH, SO I'LL, I'LL SEE ALL OF YOU, UH, IN NOT TOO LONG.

THANKS.

YOU'LL, UH, THIS IS SHANE.

YOU'LL BE MISSED.

THANK YOU.

I APPRECIATE THAT.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, COMMISSIONER JOHNSON, FOR YOUR SERVICE.

UM, I HAVE LEARNED A GREAT DEAL, UH, FROM BEING ON THIS COMMISSION IN PART BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU HAVE BROUGHT TO THE TABLE.

SO I THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THANK YOU.

THERE.

ANY OTHER ITEMS FOR DISCUSSION? IF NOT, I AM HAPPY TO ENTERTAIN A MOTION.

SO MOVE.

I HAVE A MOTION.

SECOND TO ADJOURN AND SECONDED BY, BY COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN, WHOSE CAMERA ISN'T ON, BUT I'M GONNA IGNORE THAT NOW.

UM, , UH, ON THE PRESUMPTION THAT THERE ARE NO OBJECTIONS, WE WILL CONSIDER IT A, UH, AN ACCLIMATION AND WE WILL CALL THIS MEETING ADJOURNED.

THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR YOUR TIME.

SHANE, WE JOINED AT EIGHT 13.

BYE.

SHANE.

DON'T YOU DO WHAT? AND PRAISE.