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[00:00:02]

OH,

[CALL MEETING TO ORDER]

7:00 PM WE'LL START WITH TAKING THE ROLL MICROPHONE THAT'S ON.

AT LEAST I THINK IT IS.

SAYS IT'S ON, IT NEEDS TO COME CLOSER.

ALRIGHT.

I CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER AT 6:07 PM OF THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION.

YOU WANNA MOVE IT THROUGH YOUR MOUTH? LITTLE BIT.

JUST POINT, POINT IT UP.

THERE YOU GO.

Y'ALL ARE KILLING ME.

ALRIGHT.

UH, BES IS BETTER THAN KILLING PAUL TODAY.

UH, ONE MORE TIME.

I CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER AT 6:07 PM WE'LL START BY TAKING ROLL CALL.

UH, COMMISSIONER STONE IS HERE.

ROBINS HERE.

DAVIS.

HERE, FARMER.

HERE.

GARY LUKI.

HERE.

TIS TI SCHWARTZ.

HERE.

SILVERSTEIN HERE.

BEAUTIFUL.

WE HAVE A QUORUM.

A UH, SO WE'LL BEGIN

[PUBLIC COMMUNICATION: GENERAL]

FIRST OFF, WITH PUBLIC COMMUNICATION.

UH, I HAVE THREE PEOPLE ON THE LIST HERE TO SPEAK ON A FEW ITEMS. UH, FIRST UP IS AL BRADEN HERE TO SPEAK ON ITEM NUMBER SIX.

THAT LOOKS HANDY.

OKAY.

UH, GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS AND AUSTIN ENERGY STAFF.

I'M AL BRADEN, A DISTRICT SEVEN VOTER AND COMMUNITY SOLAR CUSTOMER.

I PHOTOGRAPHED THE RIBBON CUTTING FOR THE GROUNDBREAKING LOMA COMMUNITY SOLAR FARM IN 2018 AND SIGNED UP IMMEDIATELY.

I'VE BEEN AN ENTHUSIASTIC SUPPORTER EVER SINCE.

WITH THE RISE IN THE PSA OVER THE YEARS, MY SOLAR ENERGY NOW SAVES ME MONEY.

AND I'M EVEN HAPPIER THAT CAP CUSTOMERS CAN ACCESS SOLAR AT EVEN MORE AFFORDABLE RATES.

SO I EAGERLY AWAITED FOR MORE COMMUNITY SOLAR, SO MORE FOLKS LIKE ME COULD ENJOY THOSE BENEFITS.

AND I WAITED AND I WAITED.

AND IN THOSE SIX YEARS, AUSTIN ENERGY BARELY MOVED THE NEEDLE.

WE NEED VASTLY MORE SOLAR IN OUR LOAD ZONE.

EVERY MEGAWATT GENERATED IN AUSTIN STAYS IN AUSTIN AND AVOIDS ALL THE AIRCO TRANSMISSION AND COST AND CONSTRAINTS.

THE SOLAR STANDARD OFFER IS A GREAT PLAN.

IN FACT, I HOPE IT REACHES WELL BEYOND ITS MODEST TWO MIL, TWO MEGAWATT, 20 MEGAWATT BENCHMARK.

WE NEED OVER 200 MEGAWATTS OF AUSTIN SUNSHINE TO MAKE A DENT IN OUR GENERATION PLAN.

THE OFFER PRICE IS CRITICAL.

IF ATTRACTIVE, WE'LL GET DEVELOPER ENGAGEMENT AND ABUNDANT SOLAR.

IF IT IS LOW, WE'LL JUST DIE ON THE VINE.

BUT IT MUST ATTRACT TWO PARTIES, THE DEVELOPER AND THE SITE HOST.

THE VALUE OF SOLAR PAYS ONLY THE HOMEOWNER.

NO WORRIES ABOUT LEASING THE ROOF.

FOR THE STANDARD OFFER TO WORK, WE HAVE TO PAY THE DEVELOPER FOR INSTALLING THE SYSTEM AND THE HOST FOR LEASING THE ROOF.

THIS IMPORTANT EXTRA PRICE HAS TO BE RIGHT FOR THE PROGRAM TO SCALE.

I BELIEVE AUSTIN ENERGY'S STARTING OFFER BASED ON 2021.

MARKET PRICES IS TOO LOW.

2021 VERSUS 2022.

23 AREN'T JUST PRICE FLUCTUATIONS IN THE ERCOT MARKET.

THEY'RE ACTUALLY TWO VERY DIFFERENT MARKETS SEPARATED BY WINTER STORM URI UNTIL 2021.

ERCOT WAS JUST HELD IN ON HAVING THE LOWEST PRICES POSSIBLE.

URI WAS A MAJOR WAKE UP CALL.

INCREASED RESERVES AND ANCILLARY SERVICES RATE INCREASES, COVERING UTILITY LOSSES, INCREASED MAINTENANCE FOR GAS AND COAL PLANTS, FIRMING REQUIREMENTS AND REGULATORY CHANGES, INCREASING COST FOR TRANSMISSION AND STATE FUNDING OF ADDITIONAL GAS PLANTS.

ALL OF THOSE FACTORS COMBINED FOR HUGE INCREASES.

YOU JUST WON'T SEE THOSE 2021 PRICES AGAIN.

2022 AND 2023 REFLECT THE WORLD WE NOW LIVE IN.

I WOULD AVERAGE THOSE TWO YEARS FOR THE STANDARD OFFER STARTING POINT, BUT THE COMMISSION HAS A RESOLUTION BEFORE IT TONIGHT FOR THE APPROVED VALUE OF SOLAR, THIS WOULD BE A BIG IMPROVEMENT OVER THE HISTORIC 2021 PRICES AND WOULD HELP THE PROGRAM GROW MORE QUICKLY.

AT 9.90 CENTS VALUE OF SOLAR BEATS, AUSTIN ENERGY IS PROPOSED 7.60 CENTS STANDARD OFFER.

IT'S NOT UP TO THE 13 CENTS THAT MY AVERAGING WOULD SUGGEST.

THOSE ARE TODAY'S REAL AVOIDED COST, BUT IT WILL GO A LONG WAY TO GETTING THE PROGRAM LAUNCHED IF THE COMMISSION'S CONSENSUS IS FOR THE ESTABLISHED VALUE OF SOLAR.

I SAY, LET'S GO WITH IT.

I HOPE IT'S ENOUGH TO ATTRACT BOTH DEVELOPERS AND PROJECT HOSTS.

LET THE SUNSHINE ENERGETICALLY ON THIS POTENTIALLY EFFECTIVE COMMUNITY SOLAR PROGRAM.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

WE HAVE, CAN I ASK, UH, AL YES.

MR. BRADEN, UH, WHAT ARE THE TERMS OF YOUR, UH, PURCHASE?

[00:05:01]

UH, WHAT DO YOU, WHAT DO YOU PAY AS OPPOSED TO WHAT YOU WOULD'VE PAID? UH, I HAVE THAT IN THE PAPER BACK IN MY CHAIR, BUT IT'S, UH, ON MY ELECTRIC BILL, WHICH IS ABOUT 160 BUCKS.

LAST MONTH I SAVED $2 AND 10 CENTS.

SO IT'S ABOUT A PENNY.

WHEN YOU ADD THE PSA AND THE, THE REGULAR CHARGE TOGETHER, IT'S ABOUT A 10TH OF A CENT LESS.

AND I CAN FIND YOU THOSE EXACT NUMBERS.

SO IT'S MARGINAL.

BUT WHEN I STARTED, I PAID ABOUT $25 A MONTH MORE FOR COMMUNITY SOLAR.

AND I KEPT HAVING TO EXPLAIN TO MY WIFE, THIS IS REALLY A GOOD THING.

AND NOW I CAN GO TO HER AND SAY, WE SAVED TWO BUCKS.

SO YOUR PRICE IS FIXED NOW.

IT'S FIXED HOW LONG FOR WHAT? 25 YEARS? I BELIEVE.

15.

15.

ONLY 15.

IT'S 15.

AND IT'S, AND THE ONLY PART THAT'S FIXED IS THE COMMUNITY SOLAR ADJUSTMENT REPLACES THE POWER SUPPLY ADJUSTMENT ON THE BILL.

SO THAT PORTION IS NOW FIXED FOR COMMUNITY SOLAR CUSTOMERS.

YEAH.

FOR 15 YEARS.

I FEEL LIKE WE NEED TO REMIND OUR FRIENDS FROM AUSTIN ENERGY THAT WHEN YOU PIPE IN, YOU HAVE TO GO UP THERE.

INTRODUCE YOURSELF.

NO, MR. ROBBINS.

I HAVE THAT AT MY DESK AND OR MY SEAT.

AND I'LL GIVE YOU A COPY OF IT.

I JUST DON'T HAVE IT.

I DIDN'T BRING IT WITH ME UP HERE, BUT HEY.

YEAH.

HEY, I SUPPORT THIS, BY THE WAY.

.

APPRECIATE IT.

YEAH.

SO, UM, TIM HARVEY, CUSTOMER RENEWABLE SOLUTIONS, AND YES, THE, UM, THE COMMUNITY SOLAR ADJUSTMENT REPLACES THE POWER SUPPLY ADJUSTMENT ON THE ELECTRIC BILL.

AND THE COMMUNITY SOLAR ADJUSTMENT IS FIXED FOR 15 YEARS, UM, FOR ALL CURRENT COMMUNITY SOLAR CUSTOMERS.

THANK YOU.

OKAY.

UH, NEXT UP ON, UH, UH, PUBLIC COMMENT TRACE ROADS, UH, HERE TO SPEAK ON ITEMS EIGHT AND NINE.

GOOD EVENING.

I KNOW THAT WE HAD SOME TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES AT THE LAST MEETING, SO I, WE APPRECIATE THE SECOND OPPORTUNITY TO COMMENT ON THE ENERGY CODE.

MY NAME IS TRACY RHODES.

I'M A SENIOR POLICY ADVISOR FOR TEXAS GAS AS SERVICE, AND WE ARE HERE TO PROVIDE COMMENT ON THE CITY'S PROPOSED ADOPTION OF THE 2024 INTERNATIONAL ENERGY CONSERVATION CODE, ALSO KNOWN AS THE IECC TEXAS GAS SERVICE COMPANY.

A DIVISION OF ONE GAS IS A PROUD PROVIDER OF AFFORDABLE, RELIABLE NATURAL GAS UTILITY SERVICES TO OVER 275,000 CUSTOMERS WITHIN THE CITY OF AUSTIN AND IN THE AUSTIN METRO AREA.

TEXAS GAS SERVICE HAS BEEN AN ACTIVE PARTICIPANT IN THE CITY'S STAKEHOLDER PROCESS SINCE APRIL OF THIS YEAR.

TGS IS OPPOSED TO ELECTRIC READINESS PROVISIONS IN SECTIONS 8.45 AND RK 1 0 1 DUE TO THE POTENTIAL FOR NEGATIVE IMPACTS IMPOSED ON OUR CUSTOMERS ABILITIES TO, TO MAKE REASONABLE AND AFFORDABLE CHOICES RELATED TO BUILDING CONSTRUCTION.

SPECIFICALLY, IF APPROVED ELECTRIC READINESS WOULD REQUIRE BUILDERS TO INSTALL UNNECESSARY AND POTENTIALLY COSTLY ELECTRICAL INFRASTRUCTURE.

FOR HYPOTHETICAL FUTURE INSTALLATION OF ELECTRIC EQUIPMENT, TO BE CLEAR, THESE PROVISIONS SPECIFICALLY TARGET BUILDINGS THAT PLAN TO INCLUDE FUEL GAS INFRASTRUCTURE.

OUR CONCERN IS THAT THE INCLUSION OF THIS ADDITIONAL ELECTRICAL INFRASTRUCTURE RAISES COSTS SUCH MANDATORY REQUIREMENTS ALONE.

DO NOT GUARANTEE THAT THIS EXTRANEOUS INFRASTRUCTURE WOULD BE USED BY OR USEFUL TO THE BUILDING OPERATOR OR THE HOMEOWNER.

SUCH REQUIREMENTS DO NOT GUARANTEE USEFULNESS.

THEY DO NOT GUARANTEE EFFICIENCY GAINS OR COST SAVINGS FROM A FUTURE RETROFIT PROJECT THAT MAY NEVER ACTUALLY OCCUR.

THIS IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE THE CITY'S STATED GOAL OF THESE PROVISIONS IS THAT THEIR MANDATED COMPLIANCE WOULD PROTECT FUTURE BUILDING OPERATORS OR HOMEOWNERS FROM HYPOTHETICAL HIGHER ANTICIPATED FUTURE RETROFIT COSTS.

BECAUSE THERE ARE NO GUARANTEED EFFICIENCY GAINS, THE PROPOSED READINESS CODES ARE NOT SUITED FOR AUSTIN'S ENERGY CODE REQUIREMENTS.

IF THE GOAL IS TO PROTECT THE ABILITY OF CUSTOMERS TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF NEW TECHNOLOGIES, FUEL CHOICE ALREADY EXISTS IN THE STATE OF TEXAS.

THE REQUIRED INSTALLATION OF EXTRANEOUS ELECTRICAL INFRASTRUCTURE IS EFFECTIVELY AN INDIRECT BAN ON NATURAL GAS.

WE RESPECTFULLY REQUEST YOUR CONSIDERATION OF THE FOLLOWING.

SHOULD THE CITY OF AUSTIN FIND THE ELECTRIC READINESS CODES USEFUL, THE CITY SHOULD ONLY CONSIDER ADOPTION OF SUCH PROVISIONS IN THE FORM OF NON-MANDATORY LANGUAGE.

THIS TREATMENT WOULD PRESERVE CUSTOMER CHOICE.

[00:10:01]

WE STRONGLY ENCOURAGE THE CITY TO CONDUCT A THOROUGH LEGAL REVIEW OF THE PROPOSED NEW ELECTRIC READINESS CODES FOR CONFIRMATION OF HARMONY WITH THE LEGISLATIVE INTENT OF HB 17 TO PRESERVE THE RIGHT TO FUEL CHOICE.

IN ADDITION TO OUR RECOMMENDATIONS, WE ALSO HAVE MANY QUESTIONS REGARDING THE CALCULATION METHODOLOGIES AND LOCAL ENERGY CODE MODELING THAT WAS CONDUCTED BY AUSTIN ENERGY AND THE CITY HOUSING DEPARTMENT.

WE ARE HAPPY TO DISCUSS ANY, ANY QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS FURTHER.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

UH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS, JUST THIS MORNING, UH, I REVIEWED THE LEGISLATIVE INTENT OF HOUSE BILL 17, WHICH YOU ARE REFERRING TO.

IT WAS, UH, IN THE LEGISLATIVE RECORD FOR MARCH 31ST, UH, 2021.

UH, AND IT BASICALLY, UH, ALLOWS, UH, THE CITY OF AUSTIN TO DO THIS.

UM, I WOULD ALSO RAISE THE CONCERN WHERE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, UH, COST TO CONSUMERS.

UH, THIS IS MORE TOWARDS THE RATE CASE, UH, BUT THE RATE IN THE RATE CASE THAT TEXAS GAS SERVICE, UH, HAS BEFORE THE CITY COUNCIL.

NOW, UH, I HAVE INFORMATION THAT SHOWS THAT THE BUILDERS OF A NEW GAS HOME ARE PAYING FROM THE NUMBERS.

I'VE SEEN ABOUT 2% OF WHAT THE COSTS ARE FOR NEW INFRASTRUCTURE.

AND SO IT SEEMS WELL STRANGE THAT YOU'RE ASKING US TO CONSIDER THE COST TO CONSUMERS WHEN I'M AS A GAS RATE PAYER AND PAYING MOST OF THE COSTS OF A NEW HOOKUP.

UM, THAT SAID, GETTING BACK TO THE MAIN CORE OF YOUR ISSUE, UH, I'VE SENT THE LEGISLATIVE INTENT LANGUAGE TO THE COMMISSIONERS, UH, FOR THEM TO REVIEW.

I, I THINK WE'RE IN THE CLEAR.

UM, THOSE ARE MY COMMENTS.

UH, IF YOU WANNA RESPOND, OF COURSE.

SURE.

YEAH.

I I DON'T WANNA BE HIGH HANDED ABOUT THIS.

YEAH, I, I CAN'T SPEAK TO THE RATE CASE.

I, IT'S NOT WITH IT BY WHEELHOUSE AT TGS, BUT IN TERMS OF THE LEGISLATIVE INTENT AND THE, UH, TGS BELIEVES THAT IT'S AN INDIRECT BAN ON NATURAL GAS BECAUSE THIS CODE REQUIREMENT IS, IS IN FACT WHAT IT IS, IT'S A REQUIREMENT.

SO YOU'RE REQUIRING ADDITIONAL ELECTRICAL INFRASTRUCTURE TO REQUIRE THE EVENTUAL CONVERSION TO ELECTRICAL APPLIANCES.

SO IF IT WERE A NON-MANDATORY PROVISION, WELL THAT WOULDN'T, THAT WOULDN'T BE A CONCERN.

BUT IT, IT'S BECAUSE IT REQUIRES THE EVENTUAL TRANSITION, THEN IT'S AN INDIRECT BAN ON NATURAL GAS.

IT DOES NOT REQUIRE AN EVENTUAL TRANSMISSION, I'M SORRY.

THE HOME COULD THEORETICALLY, UH, BEYOND NATURAL GAS FOR THE NEXT 200 YEARS, IT MERELY, UH, ALLOWS THE OPTION, UH, IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO CONVERT THE FIRST SPEAKER, UH, MR. BRADEN, UH, DECIDED TO CONVERT HIS EXISTING GAS, UH, WATER HEATER TO AN ELECTRIC HEAT PUMP, AND IT COST HIM IN EXCESS TO DO THAT BECAUSE HE HAD TO CONVERT, UH, HIS EXISTING ELECTRICAL PANEL.

AND IF IT WERE PRE-WIRED, WELL, IT WOULD SAVE HIM MONEY.

SO THAT'S WHAT THIS IS REALLY TRYING TO DO.

BUT, UM, THIS IS MY PERSPECTIVE AND YOU OBVIOUSLY DIFFER.

MAY I RESPOND TO YOUR COMMENT? IT'S FINE WITH ME.

NO, I, I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS, COMMISSIONER.

UM, I, SO TGS, IF THE, IF THE INTENT IS NOT TO EVENTUALLY TRANSITION TO ELECTRICAL APPLIANCES, THEN I, I ASK AUSTIN AND AUSTIN ENERGY AND THE CITY TO EXPLAIN WHAT THE PURPOSE OF THIS CODE REALLY IS, THEN.

WELL, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR AUSTIN ENERGY.

UM, IT IS MY OPINION THAT THIS IS TO MAKE IT EASIER AND LESS EXPENSIVE FOR SOMEBODY WHO WANTS TO DO IT.

AND, WELL, I, I GUESS WE HAVE A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION AS TO WHETHER THAT

[00:15:01]

IS MERITORIOUS OR NOT.

YEAH.

COMMISSIONER DAVIS.

YES.

IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE, WE'RE JUMPING YOU, YOU'RE TURNED OFF.

SORRY.

IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE JUMPING INTO ITEM NINE AND I WOULD SUGGEST THAT WE HOLD AND TABLE THIS DISCUSSION TILL THE ACTUAL ITEM COMES UP IN THE MEETING.

AND I'M, I'M FINE WITH THAT, BUT I DIDN'T WANT THE SPEAKERS FROM TEXAS GAS SERVICE, UH, TO BE CAUGHT OFF GUARD WHERE THEY COULD NOT SPEAK UP.

SO I THOUGHT I WOULD BRING IT UP NOW SO THEY HAD A CHANCE TO DEFEND THEIR POSITION.

THAT'S WHY I DID IT.

NOW.

DULY NOTED.

THANK YOU.

MOVING ON IN OUR AGENDA.

COMMISSIONER FARMER.

I NEVER SAW A HAND RAISED IN THE, HE HAD IT RAISED, BUT HE LOWERED IT.

OH, HE LOWERED IT.

COMMISSIONER FARMER, DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION? I SEE YOUR HAND RAISED NOW.

, MAYBE YOU'RE MUTED.

I WE CAN HEAR YOU.

I'M SORRY.

MY, UH, SIX, MY 6-YEAR-OLD HAD MY OTHER EARBUD IN, SO I DIDN'T WANNA JUMP ON.

AND , I SUBJECT YOU GUYS TO THAT.

UH, YEAH, I WAS, UH, JUST GONNA SAY WHAT COMMISSIONER DAVIS SAID, SO I'M ALL GOOD.

OKAY.

VERY GOOD.

MOVING ON IN THE AGENDA.

I HAVE, UH, ERIC TATE HERE ALSO TO SPEAK ON ITEMS EIGHT AND NINE.

WHY AM I NOT SEEING HANDS? ALRIGHT, ERIC TATE, WITH THAT SYNERGY, I AM, UH, MANAGER OF PUBLIC AFFAIRS IN MID TECH DIVISION.

UM, APPRECIATE YOUR TIME HERE.

ATMOS ENERGY APPRECIATES CONTINUED ENGAGEMENT WITH THE CITY OF AUSTIN AS PART OF THEIR EVALUATION OF ADOPTING THE 2024 INTERNATIONAL ENERGY CONSERVATION CODES.

ATMOS ENERGY IS THE NATION'S LARGEST PROVIDER OF NATURAL GAS ONLY UTILITY, SERVING 3.3 MILLION NATURAL GAS CUSTOMERS IN OVER 1400 COMMUNITIES IN EIGHT STATES.

GIVEN OUR BREADTH OF OUR SERVICE, TORY, AS WELL AS OUR SIGNIFICANT AND GROWING CUSTOMER BASE, WE HAVE A KEEN INTEREST IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF BUILDING CODES, WHICH SUPPORTS OUR VISION OF BEING THE NATION'S SAFEST PROVIDER OF NATURAL GAS SERVICES.

THROUGHOUT OUR DISCUSSION OVER THE PAST THREE YEARS, ATMOS ENERGY HAS ACTIVELY ENGAGED IN THE 2024 IECC CO-DEVELOPMENT PROCESS AND APPRECIATES THE OPPORTUNITY TO SHARE OUR PERSPECTIVE ON THE FINALIZED 2024 IECC WITH THE RMC.

THROUGHOUT OUR DISCUSSIONS WITH ICC AND VARIOUS BUILDING CODE STAKEHOLDERS, WE AIM TO PROMOTE BUILDING CODES THAT ARE FUEL NEUTRAL, PROVIDE COST-EFFECTIVE BENEFITS TO HOMEOWNERS AND BUILDING OWNERS, AND ASSESS EMISSIONS REDUCTION IN ENERGY SAVINGS BASED ON A FULL FUEL CYCLE ANALYSIS FROM ENERGY PRODUCTION TO CONSUMPTION.

WITH RESPECT TO THE 2024 TECHNICAL CODE AMENDMENTS, WE FIND THAT CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF THE APPEND DO NOT COMPORT WITH THE STATE OF TEXAS EXISTING LEGISLATION REQUIRING FUEL NEUTRALITY FOR THE CONSUMER ENERGY CHOICE, BUT RATHER FAVOR ELECTRIFICATION FOR ENERGY SUPPLY.

UNDER THESE IECC AMENDMENTS, WE UNDERSTAND THE CITY OF AUSTIN HAS A VARIETY OF DRIVERS BEHIND THE DECISIONS TO CONSIDER ADOPTING THE 2024 IECC CODE.

MEANINGFUL IMPROVEMENTS IN ENERGY EFFICIENCY THAT WILL AID THE CITY IN MOVING CLOSER TO ACHIEVING THE ENERGY CONSERVATION AND GREENHOUSE GAS REDUCTION GOALS CAN BE MADE WITH THE ADOPTION OF ONLY THE BASE CODE WITHOUT INCORPORATING MATERIAL FROM THE NON-MANDATORY APP DEPENDENCIES INCLUDED IN THE PROPOSED TECHNICAL CODE AMENDMENTS.

UNFORTUNATELY, THE FOLLOWING PROVISIONS DO NOT SAVE OFF NIGHTS ANY ADDITIONAL ENERGY OR EMISSIONS ABOVE AND BEYOND THOSE ACHIEVED BY IMPLEMENTING THE BASE CODE.

ONE CHAPTER SEVEN, RE RESIDENT RESIDENTIAL SOLAR READY TWO APPENDIX RE ELECTRIC VEHICLE POWER TRANSFER TRANSFER THREE APPENDIX RK ELECTRIC READINESS.

THESE AMENDMENTS INCREASE COST FOR HOMEOWNERS AND BUILDING OWNERS, AND GIVEN THE POTENTIAL LOW USAGE FOR RESIDENTS MAY REFLECT STRANDED ASSET COSTS WITH LITTLE TO NO BENEFIT.

RATHER, THESE RESIDENTIAL BUILDING FEATURES SHOULD REMAIN AT THE DISCRETION OF THE HOME BUILDER TO ALLOW THE HOMEOWNER AN EQUITABLE AND ENERGY EFFICIENT PATH WITH A GREATER AUTONOMY OVER THE DECISION ON WHAT WORKS BEST FOR THEIR NEEDS.

ATMOS ENERGY SINCERELY APPRECIATES THE CITY'S CONSIDERATION OF THESE COMMENTS, AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO CONTINUING TO ENGAGE WITH THE CITY THROUGHOUT THIS PROCESS.

THANK YOU THERE.

ANY QUESTIONS? UM, COMMISSIONER DAVIS,

[00:20:01]

UH, DO YOU, DO YOU THINK IT WISE TO HAVE, UH, QUESTIONS OF THESE TWO REPRESENTATIVES OF THE GAS INDUSTRY DURING OUR DISCUSSION, OR, OR DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD DO IT NOW? I I JUST DON'T WANT US TO BE ACCUSED OF IGNORING THEM, THAT'S ALL.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S MY CALL, BUT, UH, WE HAVE IT ON THE AGENDA.

WE, WE DO HAVE AN AGENDA THAT WE SHOULD STICK TO, SO THEY'RE MORE THAN WELCOME TO STICK AROUND AND, YOU KNOW, I WILL BE COGNIZANT OF THE FACT THAT WE HAVE PEOPLE OVER THERE THAT MAY BE ABLE TO OFFER INPUT AND I MIGHT ASK THEM A QUESTION WHILE WE ARE GOING THROUGH OUR DISCUSSION ON ITEMS EIGHT AND NINE LATER.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ALL RIGHTY.

SO, BEFORE WE, UH, GO ON IN THIS THING I WANT TO BRING TO THE COMMISSION'S ATTENTION, I WILL BE CHANGING UP THE ORDER A LITTLE BIT TONIGHT, AND THAT IS TO BRING STAFF DISCUSSION ITEMS AHEAD OF, UH, RESOLUTIONS THAT WE'LL BE CONSIDERING THIS EVENING, SO THAT THAT WAY THEY'RE ABLE TO SET THE TABLE FOR US A LITTLE BIT AND WE CAN HAVE A MORE FRUITFUL DISCUSSION WHEN THOSE AGENDA ITEMS COME UP.

SO WHEN THEY COME UP, I WILL SAY WITHOUT OBJECTION FROM THE COMMISSION, I'M MOVING THIS ITEM UP AND WE'LL GO FROM THERE.

DOES THAT SOUND GOOD? JUST WONDERFUL.

THAT BEING SAID, MOVING ON INTO YOUR AGENDA.

ITEM

[1. Approve the minutes of the Resource Management Commission Regular Meeting on August 20, 2024]

NUMBER ONE, APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES.

IN YOUR PACKETS THAT YOU RECEIVED, YOU HAVE A COPY OF THE MINUTES.

I'M ASSUMING EVERYBODY TOOK A LOT OF TIME TO REVIEW THEM.

SO MOVED.

, UH, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN MOVE MOVES FOR APPROVAL.

IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND.

UH, SECONDED BY THE VICE CHAIR WITH NO OBJECTIONS.

WE'LL CONSIDER THEM ACCEPTED.

BEAUTIFUL.

MOVING ON.

ITEM NUMBER TWO IN OUR, HMM, , IT'S GONNA SLOW DOWN, DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT.

ITEM NUMBER

[2. Recommend approval issuing of capacity-based incentives to Eanes Independent School District, for installation of solar electric systems on their facilities located at 3301 Pinnacle Road, 1110 Westbank Drive, 4100 Westbank Drive, 1203 S Capital of Texas HWY NB, 6401 Cedar Street, 601 Camp Craft Road, 4100 Westbank Drive, 1314 Patterson Road, 9201 Scenic Bluff Drive, in an amount not to exceed $2,725,127.]

TWO, IN OUR AGENDA, UH, RECOMMEND APPROVING, UH, A APPROVAL OF ISSUE OF CAPACITY BASED INCENTIVES FOR E'S INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT.

UH, IS THERE SOMEONE HERE TO, UH, SPEAK TO THIS ONE? HI, I'M VALERIE PAXTON, PROGRAM MANAGER FOR CUSTOMER RENEWABLE SOLUTIONS.

UM, SHALL I JUST START SPEAKING? YEP, PLEASE GO RIGHT AHEAD.

YEAH.

SO, UH, IN THE CUSTOMER RENEWABLE SOLUTIONS DEPARTMENT, WE HAVE TWO COMMERCIAL PROGRAMS. UH, THE EENS SCHOOL DISTRICT HAS APPLIED AND PREVIOUSLY BEEN, UM, APPROVED FOR SOME REBATE FUNDING ALREADY THROUGH OUR, OUR CAPACITY BASED INCENTIVE PROGRAM.

THIS PROGRAM WAS DESIGNED FOR NONPROFITS.

UM, IT PROVIDES THEM WITH AN UPFRONT, UH, CASH INCENTIVE THAT THEY GET AFTER A FINAL SUCCESSFUL FINAL INSPECTION AND COMPLETION OF THE INSTALLATION, UM, UH, TO HELP THEM OFFSET THE COST OF THE INSTALLATION.

AND, UH, UM, DO, DO, DO, DO.

YEAH.

UM, IT, WE'RE REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THIS PROGRAM.

WE'VE HELPED A LOT OF SCHOOLS, UH, INSTALL, BE ABLE TO INSTALL SOLAR ON THEIR FACILITIES THROUGH THE CAPACITY BASE INCENTIVE PROGRAM.

UM, DO YOU WANT SOME DETAILS ABOUT THE SPECIFIC RCA? YES, PLEASE.

IF YOU CAN GIVE US THE I'LL THE DIME TOUR.

OKAY.

PER PERFECT.

THANK YOU.

I HAD TO, UH, PULL IT UP AS WELL, BUT I CAN SPEAK TO IT, UH, AS I LOOK AT, AT IT WITH Y'ALL.

UM, THIS IS A, UH, SERIES OF BUILDINGS THAT E'S ISD IS, UM, PUTTING SOLAR ON.

AND PREVIOUSLY WE APPROVED A FEW, UM, INSTALLATIONS.

WHEW, SORRY.

GETTING THROUGH THE AGENDA.

I THINK I HAVE A PHOTO.

EXCUSE ME, Y'ALL, HERE WE GO.

UM, YES, HERE WE GO.

SO WE'RE LOOKING AT A TOTAL OF AGGREGATED SYSTEM SIZE OF 3.8 MEGAWATTS DC UH, AC AS WE CONSIDER IT FOR AUSTIN ENERGY AND FOR TOWARDS OUR GOALS.

THAT'S 3.162 MEGAWATTS.

UM, THIS SCHOOL SYS, UH, THE REBATES, EXCUSE ME, THE REBATES WILL COVER ABOUT 40% OF THE TOTAL COST OF THE SYSTEM.

E'S ISD IS SPENDING ABOUT 7000006.9 MILLION IN, IN PROJECT FUNDING.

AND WE ARE SUPPLEMENTING WITH OUR INCENTIVE OF 2.75, UH, 2.725 MILLION, UM, IN INCENTIVE THAT WILL BE DELIVERED PER PROJECT AS IT'S COMPLETED AND INTERCONNECTION IN INTERCONNECTED.

UM, THE PROJECT SPAN OVER SEVEN SCHOOLS,

[00:25:01]

I BELIEVE, UH, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 1 2.

UM, YEAH, A VARIOUS SIZING.

EACH SCHOOL IS GETTING A REBATE AT 80 CENTS PER WATT.

AS OUR REBATE PROGRAM IS DESIGNED TO TIER DOWN AS, AS MORE OF OUR PROGRAM CAPACITY IS, UM, APPLIED FOR AND THAT SOLAR SYSTEMS ARE INSTALLED.

ARE THERE FURTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT THE INCENTIVE, UM, THE RECIPIENTS OR HOW THE PROGRAM'S ADMINISTERED? YEAH.

COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.

THANK YOU.

UM, I, THIS QUESTION IS NOT ABOUT THIS SPECIFIC INCENTIVE PER SE, SO MUCH AS WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE POPULATION OF SCHOOLS THAT HAVE RECEIVED SOLAR INCENTIVES.

DO ANY OF THEM GO BACK AND INSTALL BATTERIES LATER? YOU KNOW, WE HAVE HAD SOME, UH, DISCUSSIONS WHERE A ISD ASKED US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.

TO MY KNOWLEDGE, NO SCHOOLS HAVE INSTALLED BATTERIES AFTERWARDS, BUT THAT'S, YEAH, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

IT WOULD BE WORTHWHILE IF Y'ALL AREN'T ALREADY DOING IT, TO TALK TO THE EMERGENCY SERVICES DEPARTMENT, BECAUSE I WOULD GUESS THAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT SCHOOLS AS EMERGENCY SHELTERS FOR WARMING, RESILIENCE, ET CETERA.

RESILIENCE CENTERS RESILIENCE.

THANK YOU.

MUCH FANCIER WORD.

AND, AND SO IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO SEE IF YOU CAN GET THEM TO PARTNER IN GETTING BATTERY INSTALLATIONS IN A BUNCH OF THESE PUBLIC FACILITIES.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

COMMISSIONER ROBBINS, I'M SORRY.

VICE CHAIR ROBBINS ONE OF THESE DAYS.

I'LL GET IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME.

I, UM, IT SEEMS LIKE EVERY MEETING, THE DISCUSSION OF BATTERIES COMES UP AND IT NEVER HAPPENS.

UH, AND I'M GONNA VOTE FOR THIS TONIGHT, BUT I'M ALMOST AS FRUSTRATED ABOUT THIS AS I WAS AT THE LAST MEETINGS.

UH, I THINK THAT SOONER THAN LATER, UH, AUSTIN ENERGY REALLY NEEDS TO BRING FORTH A PROPOSAL, UH, THAT DEALS WITH, UH, STORAGE, UH, THAT'S COUPLED WITH SOLAR, UH, REBATES.

UM, I DID HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.

ARE YOU ABLE TO TELL ME WHAT THE REVENUE IS OF THE SISD? I DO NOT HAVE THE SISD REVENUE, UH, ON HAND, NO.

$190 MILLION.

ARE YOU ABLE TO TELL ME, DOES THE SISD HAVE THE ABILITY TO ISSUE CONSTRUCTION BONDS IN ADDITION TO ITS M AND O BONDS? I BELIEVE THAT IT DOES.

THEY DO.

SO MY QUESTION AS IS THE CASE WITH EVERY GOVERNMENT ENTITY THAT COMES BEFORE THIS COMMISSION, WHY ARE YOU COMING TO AUSTIN ENERGY CUSTOMERS TO SUPPLEMENT YOUR SPEND WHEN YOU ARE ABLE TO TAX YOUR, YOUR, YOUR USERS OF YOUR SCHOOL DISTRICT DIRECTLY? AND I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE NOT ACTUALLY WITH EENS, IT'S JUST ME GETTING MY POUND OF FLESH THAT I GET AT EVERY ONE OF THESE MEETINGS.

SO I THANK YOU FOR ENDURING THAT, THAT HAVING BEEN SAID.

IF THERE'S ANYONE HERE WHO'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION, WE CAN CONTINUE.

AFTER MY RANK COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN, I SEE A HAND, I, I MOVE TO APPROVE AND I SUPPORT YOUR RANCH, BUT I MOVE TO APPROVE NONETHELESS.

I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.

IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND.

SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER DAVIS.

WE'LL GO ON THE ROLL.

UH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS RELUCTANTLY.

YES.

COMMISSIONER DAVIS.

YES.

COMMISSIONER FARMER? YES.

COMMISSIONER LUKE LUKEY.

YES.

COMMISSIONER SCHWARTZ? YES.

COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN? YES.

AND THE CHAIR VOTES? NO, THIS PASSES 6 1 0.

MOVING ON TO ITEM NUMBER THREE

[Items 3 & 4]

IN OUR AGENDA.

RECOMMENDED AUTHORIZING ISSUANCE OF REBATES, UH, FOR THE AUSTIN ENERGY, UH, ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM.

AND I SEE RICHARD GENESEE HAS WALKED UP TO THE STAGE.

GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS.

RICHARD GENESEE, VICE PRESIDENT OF CUSTOMER ENERGY SOLUTIONS FOR AUSTIN ENERGY.

UH, IF IT PLEASE THE CHAIR, I'D LIKE TO SUGGEST THAT WE ACTUALLY TAKE ITEMS TWO AND THREE AND FOUR TOGETHER, BECAUSE AS I'LL EXPLAIN, THEY'RE ESSENTIALLY THE SAME THING.

THIS COMMISSION HAS APPROVED SINCE FY 20, UH, ITEM THREE, WHICH JUST ENABLES US TO

[00:30:01]

NOT HAVE TO GO INDIVIDUALLY TO COUNSEL FOR INCENTIVES THAT PASS, UH, THE AUTHORIZED LIMIT OF $72,000 FOR AN INCENTIVE.

AND THIS COMMISSION RECEIVES MONTHLY REPORTS OF EVERY, UM, INCENTIVE PAID FOR COMMERCIAL AND MULTIFAMILY IN THAT CATEGORY OF, OF, UM, OF PROJECTS.

SO EVERY YEAR WHEN OUR BUDGET IS APPROVED, WHEN THE CITY BUDGET IS APPROVED, WE COME BACK THROUGH AND ASK FOR REAUTHORIZATION OF THIS PERMISSION TO NOT HAVE TO, UM, YOU KNOW, GET, UH, INDIVIDUAL PROJECTS THAT ARE 72,000 MORE AND MORE, UH, THROUGH COUNCIL.

AND THIS IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT EXPEDITES PAYMENT OF THOSE INCENTIVES TO THE CONTRACTORS WORKING ON THOSE, THOSE PROJECTS.

SO, UH, THIS COMMISSION HAS BEEN SUPPORTIVE OF THAT SINCE FY 20 FOR COMMERCIAL AND MULTIFAMILY.

SO FOR THIS YEAR, WE ARE ASKING THAT SAME PERMISSION AGAIN, AND WE ARE ONE UPPING THAT BY DOING THE SAME THING ON SOLAR, WHICH IS ITEM FOUR, AND SAYING FOR SOLAR, UM, WE WOULD PROVIDE THE SAME THING IN TERMS OF EVERY PROJECT.

YOU WOULD STILL GET THE LEVEL OF DETAIL, THE REPORTING ON A MONTHLY BASIS, BUT WE WOULD NOT HAVE TO INDIVIDUALLY GO TO COUNCIL TO PAY AN INCENTIVE ON EVERY SOLAR PROJECT THAT'S IN EXCESS OF, UH, THE COUNCIL AUTHORITY AT THIS POINT.

SO I, IN THE INTEREST OF TRYING TO MOVE THIS ALONG, I WANTED TO SEE IF WE COULD HANDLE BOTH OF THEM AT THE SAME TIME OR AT THE COMMISSION'S DISCRETION.

IF YOU WANT TO DISCUSS THEM INDIVIDUALLY AND APPROVE INDIVIDUALLY, YOU CAN DO THAT TOO.

AND STAFF IS HERE TO SUPPORT IF YOU, IF THERE ARE ANY MORE DETAILED QUESTIONS.

UM, I DID HAVE ONE QUESTION, AND THEN I'LL PASS IT ON TO SOMEBODY ELSE.

EXCUSE ME.

SYMPATHY CALL FOR YOU, UH, THIS YEAR COMPARED TO LAST YEAR, WHAT IS THE CHANGE IN THE OVERALL VALUE OF THESE PROGRAMS? UH, WE ARE INCREASING THE VALUE OF MULTIFAMILY AND COMMERCIAL.

I BELIEVE WE'RE INCREASING THE VALUE ON, IS THAT RIGHT? YEAH.

JOE.

HELLO, MY NAME IS JOSEPH TANG.

I'M THE MANAGER FOR OUR COMMERCIAL AND MULTIFAMILY ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAMS. SO FOR OUR MULTIFAMILY PROGRAMS FOR ENERGY EFFICIENCY, WE HAVE TWO TYPES.

ONE IS OUR STANDARD REBATE PROGRAM, AND THE OTHER IS OUR INCOME QUALIFIED.

THE INCOME QUALIFIED PAYS AT A HIGHER RATE, AND WE TRY TO TARGET THAT TOWARDS PROPERTIES THAT HOUSE MORE LOW AND MODERATE INCOME HOUSEHOLDS.

UM, IN 2024, THE TOTAL BUDGET FOR THOSE TWO PROGRAMS WAS $2.9 MILLION FOR THE INCENTIVE DOLLARS THAT GET PAID TO THE PROPERTIES IN 2025, THAT NUMBER IS GOING UP TO $3.45 MILLION COMBINED FOR THOSE TWO PROGRAMS. UM, IN 2024, OUR COMMERCIAL AND SMALL BUSINESS PROGRAM WAS AT $3.6 MILLION.

IN 2025, THAT NUMBER IS GOING DOWN A LITTLE BIT TO 3.3 MILLION.

THE REASON FOR THAT IS WE ARE RIGHT SIZING OUR SMALL BUSINESS BUDGET.

WE'VE CONSISTENTLY SEEN THE PROJECT SIZE FOR THOSE FALL OVER TIME, AND WE'RE ACTUALLY SHIFTING TO A HIGHER TOUCH, MORE EDUCATION FOCUSED PROGRAM, UM, THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE TARGETING TOWARDS SMALL BUSINESS CUSTOMERS AND LOCAL NONPROFITS.

SO WE'RE CONTINUING TO EXPECT THOSE PROJECT SIZES TO DECREASE ON THE SMALL BUSINESS SIZE.

AND SO THAT'S THE REASON FOR THE BUDGET, UM, REDUCTION THERE FOR FY 25.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.

THANK YOU.

I I SUPPORT BOTH OF THESE PROGRAMS, BUT I HAVE A PRETTY IMPORTANT QUESTION.

WHY IS THE BUDGET FOR ENERGY EFFICIENCY LOWER THAN THE BUDGET FOR SOLAR INCENTIVES? UM, SEEMS TO ME THAT IF WE ARE FACING, UM, CONGESTION COSTS ON OUR BORDERS, SO HIGHER IN LOAD POCKET COSTS, WE HAVE, UM, AND WE HAVE EQUITY ISSUES AND WE ARE TRYING TO SUPPORT MULTIFAMILY, IT SEEMS TO ME WE COULD DO A LOT MORE TO HELP AUSTIN'S RELIABILITY AND CONGESTION AND CARBON EMISSIONS AND, AND PEAK REDUCTION AND TRANSMISSION COSTS BY REDUCING AND SPENDING MORE ON MULTIFAMILY AND COMMERCIAL ENERGY EFFICIENCY THAN WE CAN ON SOLAR REBATES.

GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS.

SARAH NORRIS, DIRECTOR OF ENERGY EFFICIENCY SERVICES.

UM, I, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.

I BELIEVE THAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO THE FACT THAT THE SOLAR REBATES INCENTIVE BUDGET IS LARGER THAN JUST THE COMMERCIAL AND MULTIFAMILY.

THE TOTAL ENERGY EFFICIENCY REBATES, UH, PROPOSED BUDGET FOR 2024, I HAVE TO DOUBLE CHECK MY EXACT

[00:35:01]

NUMBERS, IS OVER, UM, IS OVER $20 MILLION.

SO IT'S SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER THAN OUR SOLAR REBATES.

THANK.

AND WHAT IS OUR TOTAL SOLAR REBATE BUDGET? 12.

THAT'S A WONDERFULLY HELPFUL PIECE OF CONTEXT THAT I WISH YOU GUYS HAD PUT IN HERE, AND I APPRECIATE THE INFORMATION.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

JUST TO CLARIFY, THE AGGREGATE AUTHORITY IS ONLY FOR THOSE TWO PROGRAMS BECAUSE THE SIZE OF THE INCENTIVES PAID OUT SOMETIMES, SOMETIMES EXCEED, UM, THE COUNCIL AUTHORITY, WHEREAS IN OUR RESIDENTIAL PROGRAMS OR WEATHERIZATION PROGRAMS, THEY, THEY DON'T, SO THEY'RE SMALLER, BUT WE PAY OUT A LOT MORE OF THEM, SO.

GOT IT.

SUPER HELPFUL.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MS. DORIS.

SOMETHING ELSE THAT WOULD, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS, SOMETHING ELSE THAT WOULD HELP WOULD BE IF YOU WOULD UPDATE YOUR ANNUAL REPORT.

THE ONE THAT'S ON THE WEBSITE NOW IS FOR 2021, AND I'VE FOUND THOSE STATISTICS OVER THE YEARS TO BE EXTREMELY HELPFUL.

THANK YOU FOR THAT.

UH, RECOMMENDATION.

RECOMMENDATION, COMMISSIONER ROBBINS, WE WILL MAKE SURE THAT ALL OF YOU HAVE ACCESS TO OUR 2023 REPORT.

I ACTUALLY JUST REFERENCED IT THE OTHER DAY, UM, SO I'LL MAKE SURE THAT IT IS PROPERLY UPDATED ON OUR WEBSITE.

THANK YOU FOR THAT.

AND JUST AS A MATTER OF, UM, COMMUNICATION AND FYI LAST YEAR, WE WENT THROUGH A PROCESS OF INTEGRATING, UH, CES CUSTOMER ENERGY SOLUTIONS.

USED TO HAVE A SEPARATE ANNUAL REPORT THAT IS NO LONGER THE CASE.

NOW IT IS INTEGRATED INTO AUSTIN ENERGY'S ANNUAL REPORT.

SO I JUST DON'T WANT, I WANT TO SET EXPECTATIONS THERE.

IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR A SEPARATE CES ONLY ANNUAL REPORT, YOU WILL NOT FIND ONE.

UH, BUT YOU WILL SEE AUSTIN ENERGY'S ANNUAL REPORT IN WHICH THE CES DATA IS EMBEDDED WITHIN THAT.

I WISH YOU A SPEEDY RECOVERY.

, ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM COMMISSIONERS? OTHERWISE, I'M HAPPY TO ENTERTAIN A MOTION.

UH, IN THE INTEREST OF MOVING THINGS ALONG, I MOVE APPROVAL.

SECOND, THERE HAS BEEN A MOTION TO APPROVE ITEM NUMBER THREE FROM VI FROM THE VICE CHAIR AND SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.

WE'LL GO WITH THE ROLL CALL VOTE.

UH, REMINDER, IF YOU'RE REMOTE, PLEASE TURN ON YOUR CAMERAS AND WELCOME TO THE PARTY COMMISSIONER SKAFF.

I'M HOPING THAT YOU GOT YOUR AUDIO ISSUES RESOLVED.

WE'LL FIND OUT.

VICE CHAIR ROBBINS? YES.

COMMISSIONER DAVIS? YES.

COMMISSIONER FARMER? YES.

UH, COMMISSIONER LUKI? YES.

COMMISSIONER S CITI STILL WORKING OUT HER ISSUES? COMMISSIONER SCHWARTZ? YES.

COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN? YES.

AND THE CHAIR VOTES? YES.

THIS PASSES 7 0 0.

MOVING ON ITEM NUMBER.

UH, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT.

OH, THERE SHE IS.

STILL WITH NO AUDIO.

MAYBE SHE COULD RAISE HER HAND.

, ARE WE ALLOWED TO TAKE A THUMBS UP, AMY? YES, SHE'S ON CAMERA.

BEAUTIFUL.

THUMBS UP.

TWO THUMBS UP FROM COMMISSIONER.

ALL RIGHT.

, UH, PASSES.

8 0 0.

MOVING ON ITEM NUMBER FOUR.

WE JUST HAD A PRESENTATION ON THIS ONE THERE.

ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS OR DISCUSSION ON THIS ITEM? SO, MOVE, UH, THERE HAS BEEN A MOTION TO APPROVE BY THE VICE CHAIR.

IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND.

THE MOTIONS ARE COMING HARD AND HEAVY FROM THE RIGHT HAND SIDE OF THE MEETING ROOM.

UH, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.

WE'LL DO A ROLL CALL.

VOTE.

UH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS? YES.

COMMISSIONER DAVIS? YES.

COMMISSIONER FARMER? YES.

COMMISSIONER MALU.

COMMISSIONER LUKI? YES.

COMMISSIONER SCAFF.

COMMISSIONER SCHWARTZ? YES.

COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN? YES.

UH, AND THE CHAIR VOTES? YES.

LOOPING BACK TO COMMISSIONER S CITI, JUST IN CASE SHE COULDN'T HEAR US BEFORE.

THERE WE GO.

BIG THUMBS UP.

BEAUTIFUL.

THIS PASSES 8 0 0 AS WELL.

MOVING ON IN OUR AGENDA.

UH, I, THIS IS ONE OF THOSE WHERE I TOLD YOU I WAS GONNA PULL SOMETHING FORWARD, AND THAT IS THAT I WOULD LIKE TO BRING ITEM NUMBER 10, THE STAFF

[10. Staff briefing on the Solar Standard Offer Program by Tim Harvey, Customer Renewable Solutions Manager, Austin Energy.]

BREEDING, STAFF BRIEFING ON SOLAR STANDARD OFFER.

UH, AND THEN WE'LL GET INTO THE ITEMS AFTER THAT THAT ARE RELATED TO THIS ONE.

SO I BELIEVE WE HAVE TIM HARVEY COMING UP TO GIVE US A PEP TALK.

[00:40:03]

THANK YOU.

UM, RICHARD GENESEE, AGAIN, IN THE INTEREST OF, UH, SAVING TIME AND MOVING THINGS ALONG AND ALSO PRESERVING MY VOICE, I HAD JUST A COUPLE OF COMMENTS BEFORE TIM GIVES THE PRESENTATION.

AND THAT IS, UM, THE SOLAR STANDARD OFFER, UM, IS, UH, THE CULMINATION OF A LOT OF WORK THAT'S BEEN IN, UH, PROCESS SINCE THE LAST BASE RATE CASE.

UM, SO WE'VE HAD SIX, UH, STAKEHOLDER ENGAGEMENT MEETINGS ON THIS, UH, OFFER.

UH, WE BELIEVE THAT IT REALLY IS A, IS A GREAT OFFER.

AND AS WE HEARD THE SPEAKER, UH, EVEN ALLUDE TO TONIGHT, THERE IS, UH, SUPPORT FOR IT AMONG STAKEHOLDERS.

WE WE'RE EXCITED ABOUT ITS LAUNCH.

THERE IS A REASON THAT WE ARE PROPOSING THAT THIS NOT INCLUDE THE, UM, UH, THE SOCIETAL BENEFITS, WHICH WE WILL GET INTO AS PART OF THE DISCUSSION.

UM, WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT ABOUT THIS, UH, PROGRAM IS THAT IT BE SCALABLE AND, UM, AND THAT IT ALSO BE SELF-SUSTAINING AND THAT IT BE PAID FOR BY PARTICIPANTS AND NOT PAID FOR BY NON PARTICIPANTS.

AND IT IS OUR BELIEF THAT IF WE DO INCLUDE THE SOCIETAL BENEFITS AS PART OF THIS VALUE STREAM, IT STARTS TO BE PAID FOR BY NON PARTICIPANTS.

AND WE, WE CAN GET MORE INTO THAT, UM, AS WELL.

TRANSPARENCY IS ANOTHER BIG ELEMENT OF THIS PROGRAM.

AND PREDICTABILITY IN TERMS OF, UH, VALUE OF SOLAR BEING AT THE, UH, DIRECTED AT CONSUMERS AND SOLAR STANDARD OFFER BEING DIRECTED AT SOLAR DEVELOPERS AND PROVIDERS.

AND SO WE NEED TO ENSURE THAT THE SOLAR DEVELOPERS AND PROVIDERS UNDERSTAND, UM, AND HAVE A REASONABLE WAY TO PREDICT WHAT IS THE PRICE, WHAT IS THE STANDARD OFFER THAT WE ARE GOING TO BE OFFERING THIS, UH, AT IN ORDER TO PAY FOR THEIR SOLAR GENERATION.

SO WITH THAT, I'LL TURN IT OVER TO TIM.

THANK YOU, COMMISSIONERS.

AGAIN, MY NAME'S TIM HARVEY AND I, I'M THE CUSTOMER RENEWABLE SOLUTIONS MANAGER.

UH, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

SO THE STANDARD OFFER PROGRAM, UM, IS A NEW MECHANISM THROUGH WHICH WE CAN INCREASE THE COMMUNITY SOLAR PORTFOLIO.

UM, IT ENABLES CUSTOMER SIDED INSTALLATIONS, UM, THAT WILL, UM, WHERE THE GENERATION GOES TO COMMUNITY SOLAR.

UM, AND THIS IS A, A NOVEL APPROACH, UM, TO PROVIDE UPFRONT PROJECT CRITERIA AND TRANSPARENT PRICING TO THE CONTRACTORS TO ALLOW THEM TO TARGET PROJECTS THAT ARE VIABLE.

UM, AND IT COMES AS A RESULT OF US GOING OUT FOR RFP ON MULTIPLE OCCASIONS AND NOT RECEIVING VIABLE PROJECTS EITHER DUE TO, UM, THE PRICING BEING TOO HIGH OR THEY DIDN'T HAVE PROPER SITE CONTROL, OR THEY WERE SUGGESTING A, A PROJECT THAT WASN'T VIABLE ON THE DISTRIBUTION GRID.

SO IN ORDER TO TRY TO, UM, ELIMINATE THE UNNECESSARY WORK THAT GOES INTO AN RFP THAT DOESN'T RESULT IN A PROJECT, UM, BOTH ON OUR PART AND THE THE CONTRACTOR'S SIDE, UM, WE WANTED TO CREATE THIS OFFERING THAT MAKES IT VERY CLEAR AS TO WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE AND WHAT WHAT WE ARE WILLING TO PAY.

UM, AND SO THAT'S WHAT THIS DOES.

UM, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

SO TO JUST KIND OF, UM, GO OVER HOW THIS WORKS.

THE, UH, SOLAR STANDARD OFFER ENABLES CUSTOMER SITE INSTALLATIONS TO SUPPORT, WAIT A MINUTE.

OH, SORRY.

I'VE GOT, UH, A REPEAT THERE.

, UM, CUSTOMER CITED SOLAR, UM, SYSTEMS, UM, THAT ARE 50 KW AND UP TO 10 MEGAWATTS ARE CONNECTED ON THE DISTRIBUTION GRID ON THE UTILITY SIDE OF THE METER.

SO THOSE PROJECTS ARE NOT DEFRAYING THE HOST CUSTOMER'S BILLS.

UM, AUSTIN ENERGY PAYS THAT CUSTOMER DIRECTLY.

UM, THE, THE SYSTEM HOST WOULD RECEIVE SOME KIND OF A LEASE AGREEMENT AND OR HOSTING AGREEMENT, UM, FOR, UM, HOSTING THOSE PANELS.

UM, THE SYSTEM OWNERS WOULD BENEFIT BY RECEIVING THE STANDARD OFFER TARIFF THROUGH THEIR SOLAR GENERATION.

[00:45:02]

UM, AUSTIN ENERGY, UH, PAYS THE TARIFF RATE AND, UM, THEN THE GENERATION FROM THAT GOES TO THE COMMUNITY SOLAR PROGRAM.

NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

SO, THE DESIRED OUTCOMES OF THIS PROGRAM ARE, UM, TO OF COURSE INCREASE THE SOLAR, THE COMMUNITY SOLAR PROGRAM, AND ALSO THE ENVIRONMENTAL BENEFITS AND SOCIAL BENEFITS THAT GO ALONG WITH THAT.

UM, WE WANT TO INCREASE CUSTOMER SATISFACTION BY EXPANDING THAT PROGRAM AND MAKING IT AVAILABLE TO MORE CUSTOMERS.

UM, IT ALSO, UH, OPENS UP A NEW MARKET SECTOR.

UH, SO, UM, BUILDING OWNERS THAT NORMALLY WOULD NOT HAVE PARTICIPATED IN SOLAR BECAUSE THEY'RE UNABLE TO LEVERAGE THE BENEFITS DIRECTLY ARE NOW ABLE TO LEVERAGE THOSE BENEFITS DIRECTLY BECAUSE, UM, WE WOULD BE PAYING THE THIRD PARTY DIRECTLY RATHER THAN ONLY BENEFITING A CUSTOMER BEHIND THE BILL.

UM, AND THEN IT ALSO INCREASES ACCESS AND EQUITY AND AFFORDABILITY, UM, THROUGH THE COMMUNITY SOLAR PROGRAM.

NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.

SO NOW I'M GONNA GET INTO THE RATE DESIGN.

UM, THE STANDARD OFFER RATE IS BASED ON AUSTIN ENERGY'S AVOIDED COST.

SO IT'S THE HIGHEST AMOUNT THAT AUSTIN ENERGY CAN PAY WITHOUT CAUSING ADDITIONAL COST TO OUR STAKE, OUR STAKEHOLDERS AND CUSTOMERS.

UM, THE PAYMENT, THE AVOIDED COSTS ARE BASED ON THE ERCOT MARKET.

UM, SO WE LOOK AT THE SOLAR PROFILE OVER THE DAY, RAMPING UP AND COMING DOWN.

WE ALIGN THAT WITH ERCOT MARKET PRICES AT THE AUSTIN ENERGY DAY AHEAD NODE.

AND, UH, THAT'S HOW WE DETERMINE THE VALUE OF THE ENERGY.

THE ANCILLARY SERVICES, UM, ENSURES THAT, UM, THERE'S ENOUGH GENERATION AND SO, UM, BY SUPPLYING THAT GENERATION, WE REDUCE OUR ANCILLARY SERVICE REQUIREMENTS AND THOSE COSTS.

AND THEN WE'RE ALSO REDUCING OUR FOUR CP, COINCIDENTALLY, WITH THE SOLAR PRODUCTION.

AND THAT RESULTS IN TRANSMISSION SAVINGS.

SO ALL THREE OF THOSE VALUES ADDED UP, UM, LEAD TO THE STANDARD OFFER.

NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

SO YOU CAN SEE HERE, UM, THAT COMING OUT OF THE GATE WITH A STANDARD OFFER, THE INCENTIVE OR, OR THE, THE RATE FOR PRODUCTION FOR SYSTEMS UNDER A MEGAWATT ARE IS 7.61 CENTS.

FOR SYSTEMS OVER A MEGAWATT, IT'S 4.94 CENTS.

AND THAT'S BECAUSE SYSTEM OF OVER A MEGAWATT DO NOT, UH, SERVE TO REDUCE THE T COST FOR AUSTIN ENERGY.

SO WE HAVE TO ADD THOSE BACK INTO THE LOAD ZONE AND WE DON'T, UH, REALIZE THE TRANSMISSION REDUCTIONS THERE.

UM, AND YOU CAN SEE A CHART HERE OF OUR ANALYSIS OF THESE COMPONENTS OVER, UM, THESE THREE YEARS.

SO IN 2021, WHICH WAS THE TEST YEAR FOR THE BASE RATE CASE, AND, UM, THE, THE BASIS FOR THE VALUE OF SOLAR CURRENTLY, UM, THE ERCO ENERGY PRICE WAS 4.67 CENTS, TCOS, 2.67 CENTS, AND ANCILLARY SERVICES TO OR 0.27 CENTS.

SO YOU CAN SEE THAT IN 2022, UM, THE PRICES WENT UP CONSIDERABLY.

SO THE ENERGY COSTS DOUBLED IN 22, UM, AND TCO WENT UP AND, AND ANCILLARY SERVICES ALMOST DOUBLED AS WELL.

UM, SO YOU CAN SEE A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT CHANGE THERE.

AND 23 ROUGHLY STAYED THE SAME, UM, WITH SOME SLIGHT FLUCTUATIONS.

SO WHAT THIS IS FOLLOWING THE VALUE OF SOLAR RATE SCHEDULE, UM, SO THAT WHEN THE VALUE OF SOLAR CHANGES, THE STANDARD OFFER RATE WILL CHANGE AS WELL.

SO IN 2026, THE UM, RATE WILL ADJUST AND IT WILL BE BASED ON THE PREVIOUS FIVE YEARS SO THAT THE AVERAGE OF THE PREVIOUS FIVE YEARS.

UM, AND THE SAME WILL HAPPEN WITH THE VALUE OF SOLAR.

AND THEN EVERY THREE YEARS IT ADJUSTS BASED ON THE PREVIOUS FIVE YEARS OF ANALYSIS.

SO YOU CAN SEE HERE, UM, BY PRESENTING WHAT THE ANALYSIS THAT WE'VE PERFORMED SO FAR, UH, THE CONTRACTING COMMUNITY WILL HAVE VISIBILITY INTO WHERE

[00:50:01]

THE RATE IS GOING INTO THE FUTURE.

UM, SO THEY HAVE SOME AMOUNT OF CERTAINTY AS TO WHAT IT WILL BE AT 2026 ALREADY.

UM, ONCE WE PERFORM THE 2024 ANALYSIS, UH, WHICH WILL BE IN JANUARY, UM, WE WILL POST THAT AND THEN THE FOLLOWING JANUARY, WE, WE WILL POST 2025 AND THEN WE WILL BE, UM, CHANGING THE RATE IN IN MARCH OF 2026.

NEXT SLIDE.

SO FOR TIMELINES, UM, ON, WE'RE PLANNING FOR THE PROGRAM PRE-LAUNCH ON OCTOBER 15TH, THAT WILL INCLUDE A STAKEHOLDER MEETING, UM, REVIEW OF ALL OF THE GUIDELINES AND REQUIREMENTS IN DETAIL, UM, REVIEW OF THE APPLICATION PERMITTING AND INSPECTION PROCESSES.

UM, AND THEN WE'LL, WE'LL BEGIN TO TAKE REGISTRATION FOR, UH, SOLAR STANDARD OFFER PARTICIPATING CONTRACTORS AT THAT TIME, UM, APPLICATIONS WILL BE ACCEPTED VIA THE WEB-BASED APPLICATION PROCESSING TOOL.

AND UPON, UM, APPLICATION APPROVAL PROJECTS MAY BEGIN CONSTRUCTION.

SO, UM, WE WILL NOT INTERCONNECT THOSE PROJECTS UNTIL FEBRUARY.

UM, IN FEBRUARY WE WILL HAVE THE BILLING SYSTEM ABLE TO, TO PROCESS EVERYTHING, UM, AND AUTOMATION SET UP FOR THAT.

AND THAT'S WHEN WE WILL BEGIN A ALLOWING THESE SYSTEMS TO INTERCONNECT.

UM, WE'LL DO THAT ON A FIRST COME FIRST SERVE BASIS.

UM, WITH INTERCONNECTION COMES PERMISSION TO OPERATE.

SO THEY'LL BEGIN, UM, TO GENERATE AND WE WILL ACTIVATE THOSE ACCOUNTS AND THEN WE WILL SETTLE UP ON A QUARTERLY BASIS UNTIL SUCH TIME THAT WE CAN AUTOMATE, UM, PAYMENTS TO LIKE A DIRECT DEPOSIT, UM, AT, AT WHICH POINT WE WOULD LIKELY CHANGE TO ONCE A MONTH CREDITING AND TRUE.

UP.

NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

SO IN ADDITION, UM, WE WILL, IN DECEMBER, WE'LL KICK OFF A SECOND SET OF STAKEHOLDER MEETINGS THAT'LL FOCUS ON THE RESIDENTIAL COMPONENT OF, UH, THE STANDARD OFFER.

RESIDENTIAL IS SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT, UM, BECAUSE THEY, THEY REQUIRE QUITE A BIT MORE CONSUMER PROTECTION AND, UM, UH, MANY OTHER CONSIDERATIONS INCLUDING THE INTERCONNECTION AND OF, OF THE SYSTEM BECAUSE WE'RE INTERCONNECTING ON THE UTILITY SIDE OF THE METER.

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAD, WE'VE ALREADY EXPLORED, UM, THROUGH SHARED SOLAR, IF YOU REMEMBER BACK THEN.

BUT, UM, WE HAVE NOT EXPLORED THAT VERY MUCH ON THE RESIDENTIAL SIDE, SO WE'LL NEED TO WORK THROUGH SOME OF THOSE CHALLENGES.

UM, BILLING SYSTEM WILL REQUIRE A BIT MORE ADJUST ADJUSTMENT FOR THAT.

UM, WE'RE GONNA, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE ALL OF THE RESOURCES THAT WILL BE REQUIRED TO ENABLE THIS OPERATIONALLY, UM, WITH THE UTILITY.

'CAUSE THERE COULD BE MANY MORE PROJECTS IF YOU'RE DOING THEM AT, YOU KNOW, THREE TO NINE KILOWATTS AS OPPOSED TO DOING THEM AT 50 PLUS KILOWATTS FOR EVERY PROJECT.

UM, SO WE NEED TO BE PREPARED FOR THAT.

WE ARE INTERESTED IN EXPLORING OWNERSHIP FLIP MODELS, UM, WITH THE, THE STANDARD OFFER.

UM, AND WE'RE GOING TO BE DOING A LOT OF COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT THROUGH SOLAR FOR ALL, WHICH I'LL BE TELLING YOU MORE ABOUT IN ANOTHER MEETING.

UM, BUT, UM, WE WANT TO TAKE THE, THE LEARNINGS FROM THOSE COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENTS AND POTENTIALLY APPLY SOME OF THAT KNOWLEDGE TO THE STANDARD OFFER APPROACH.

AND THEN WE WILL ALSO BE EXPLORING TAXES AND TAX CREDITS ALONG WITH THAT.

WE ARE TARGETING THE LAUNCH OF THE RESIDENTIAL PROGRAM FOR JANUARY OF 2026.

UM, AND WE EXPECT TO THEN REDUCE THE MINIMUM SYSTEM SIZE TO THREE KW AT THAT TIME.

UM, AND WE'LL HAVE ALL OF THE GUIDELINES AND PROCESSES READY FOR, UM, THE COMMUNITY THEN.

SO THAT CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION AND I AM HAPPY TO ENTERTAIN ANY QUESTIONS Y'ALL HAVE.

VICE CHAIR ROBBINS, I WAS CONFUSED ABOUT THAT CHART.

UH, THAT SEPARATES, UH, PRICES FOR LESS THAN A MEGAWATT, UH, AS OPPOSED TO PRICES FOR MORE THAN A MEGAWATT MM-HMM.

, WOULD YOU, UH, TRY AND EXPLAIN THAT TO ME AGAIN? YEAH, SO IF A SYSTEM IS OVER A MEGAWATT, WE HAVE TO REGISTER IT WITH ERCOT AND THEN THEY TAKE THAT GENERATION AND ADD THAT BACK INTO OUR LOAD ZONE.

[00:55:01]

SO IT DOESN'T WHEN, AS WHEN THEY'RE CALCULATING FOUR CP.

SO IT DOESN'T SERVE TO LOWER OUR FOUR CP COSTS OR OUR, OUR TRANSMISSION COSTS.

SO BECAUSE THERE'S NO BENEFIT THERE, WE DON'T PASS THROUGH ANY BENEFIT.

OKAY.

COMMISSIONER LUKI, I'M CURIOUS WHERE THESE PROJECTS ARE BEING CONSTRUCTED.

ARE THEY IN THE CITY? ARE THEY AROUND THE CITY? YEAH, THEY, THEY HAVE TO BE, UM, DISTRIBUTION INTERCONNECTED, SO ANYWHERE ON THE DISTRIBUTION GRID, AND THEY'RE GONNA BE TYPICALLY BE A CUSTOMER LOCATION.

SO THERE, THERE NEEDS TO BE A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE SYSTEM OWNER AND THE SYSTEM HOST, VICE CHAIR, ROBBINS, UH, I'M CURIOUS ONE TO FOLLOW UP.

LIKE DO YOU HAVE AN EXAMPLE? YEAH, A GREAT EXAMPLE WOULD BE LIKE A, A STRIP MALL.

SO RIGHT NOW YOU DON'T SEE SOLAR ON STRIP MALLS, UM, FOR THE MOST PART.

AND THAT'S BECAUSE THE OWNERS OF THE STRIP MALLS DON'T PAY THE ELECTRIC BILLS THEIR TENANTS DO.

AND SO THEY, THEY DON'T HAVE THAT DIRECT INCENTIVE TO DEVELOP A PROJECT.

THIS PROVIDES THEM WITH A DIRECT PAYMENT FOR THAT PRODUCTION AND WILL HELP TO INCENTIVIZE PROJECTS ON THOSE KIND OF LOCATIONS.

AND OTHERS, ANY ANY CUSTOMER SITE THAT CAN HANDLE 50 KW AND UP COULD PARTICIPATE IN THIS.

ONE LAST ONE.

ONE MORE.

SO I KNOW SOMEBODY OWNS A STRIP MALL.

WHAT I, WHAT WOULD I TELL 'EM TO INCENTIVIZE THEM TO LOOK INTO THIS? JUST TELL 'EM ABOUT THE PROGRAM AND, AND, UH, WE'LL HAVE MORE INFORMATION OBVIOUSLY ON, ON THE 15TH WHEN WE ROLL OUT THE PROGRAM, WE'LL HAVE A WEBPAGE FOR IT.

UM, IT WILL GIVE THEM INFORMATION.

WE'RE GONNA BE WORKING ON CASE STUDIES AND THINGS LIKE THAT AS WE MOVE ALONG, BUT YEAH.

UM, AND, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF TIMES THAT, WELL, THERE, THERE ARE DIFFERENT OPTIONS FOR THAT TYPE OF A PERSON.

THEY COULD DO THEIR, IF THEY HAVE THE CAPITAL TO INVEST, THEY CAN INVEST IN THEIR OWN PROJECT OR THEY COULD SEEK OUT A THIRD PARTY THAT'S LOOKING TO DEVELOP A PROJECT AND THEN THEY COULD GET A REVENUE THROUGH LEASING OUT THEIR ROOFTOP TO THE THIRD PARTY.

THANK YOU.

MM-HMM.

, UM, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS DUE TO THE, UH, FEDERAL IRA, UH, THE INFLATION REDUCTION ACT, UH, DOESN'T THAT, UH, GIVE AN INCENTIVE TO CREATE, UH, UH, INSTALLATIONS IN POORER AREAS OF AUSTIN? IT DOES.

AND BECAUSE THIS ENERGY IS GOING INTO A COMMUNITY SOLAR PROGRAM, THEY WOULD GET A POTENTIAL 10%, UM, ADDITIONAL TAX CREDIT ON TOP OF THE, WHAT THEY'RE ALREADY ELIGIBLE FOR.

SO IF, IF THEY BILL IN A, A DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITY, OKAY, YES, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN, THANK YOU.

I, THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT, BUT ERCOT, BUT IT STRAINS THE IMAGINATION THAT IF WE ARE GENERATING INSIDE OUR LOAD ZONE AND FEEDING INTO THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM, THAT WE ARE NOT USING THE TRANSMISSION SYSTEM, BUT NOT, NOT YOUR FAULT.

UM, SO TALK TO ME PLEASE ABOUT WHY, TELL ME WHAT THE VALUE OF SOLAR RATE WOULD BE COMPARED TO THE STA SOLAR STANDARD OFFER IS MM-HMM.

IS QUESTION NUMBER ONE.

QUESTION NUMBER TWO IS, IF WE HAVE A VALUE OF SOLAR RATE, WHY ON EARTH WOULD ANY RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER GO TO THE STANDARD OFFER? MM-HMM, .

AND QUESTION THREE IS, WHY AREN'T WE USING THE VALUE OF SOLAR RATE FOR EVERYTHING, PLEASE? OKAY.

SO THE, THE VALUE OF SOLAR RATE, UM, INCLUDES, OOPS, CAN YOU, CAN YOU GO BACK TO, UH, THE SLIDE THAT HAS THE DIFFERENT YEARS AND THAT, THAT ONE YEAH.

SO THE VALUE OF SOLAR RATE INCLUDES ALL OF THESE AVOIDED COSTS AND ONE MORE AVOIDED COST TO SOCIETY, WHICH IS THE SOCIETAL BENEFITS PORTION.

AND THAT VALUE IS 2.30 CENTS PER KILOWATT HOUR.

UM, WE, WE PAY THAT WE'RE WILLING TO PAY THE SOCIETAL COST OF CARBON TO OUR CUSTOMERS FOR THEIR ONSITE GENERATION.

THIS IS FOR, THIS IS A BIT DIFFERENT BECAUSE IT IS FOR, UM, THIRD PARTY GENERATORS.

SO IT'S ESSENTIALLY A POWER PURCHASE AGREEMENT FOR AUSTIN ENERGY.

THESE AREN'T EXISTING CUSTOMERS NECESSARILY.

THEY'RE GOING TO BE COMING HERE TO GENERATE POWER.

UM, AND AS SUCH, UM, AND WITH THE ADDED TAX CREDITS THAT ARE AVAILABLE, UM, WE'VE DECIDED NOT TO PUT THE, THE, UM, SOCIETAL COST OF CARBON BECAUSE A, IT DOESN'T EQUAL AND AVOIDED COST TO THE UTILITY.

SO IN ESSENCE, IT'S, IT'S A, IT'S, IT'S

[01:00:01]

AN MATTER, BUT IT DOESN'T, IT DOESN'T RESULT IN AVOIDED COST.

SO, SO IF WE PUT THAT ON, IT WILL INCREASE COST TO OUR CUSTOMERS.

UM, AND WE WANT TO HAVE A PROGRAM THAT'S SUSTAINABLE, UM, SCALABLE AND REPLICABLE.

AND SO THE BY, BY KEEPING IT AT, UM, UNDER OUR, AT OUR, AT OUR AVOIDED COSTS, AND IT'S AT THE TOP OF OUR AVOID COSTS, IT'S NOT AT A PLACE UNDER THAT.

UM, BY KEEPING IT THERE, WE THINK WE HAVE AN ATTRACTIVE PRICE THAT'S GOING TO LEAD TO SCALE AND THAT WE'RE NOT GONNA HAVE TO, TO THROTTLE AT SOME POINT BECAUSE IT, IT STARTS TO INHIBIT OUR ABILITY TO BE AFFORDABLE SO WE CAN, WE CAN LET THIS PRICE GO AND LET THIS FORMAT AND COST STRUCTURE PLAY OUT TO THE EXTENT POSSIBLE.

UM, AND, BUT IF WE START TO ADD SOCIETAL BENEFITS ONTO IT, THEN THAT TILTS THOSE SCALES AND WOULD MAKE IT WHERE, UM, WE MAY HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, STOP THE PROGRAM BECAUSE IT BECOMES A NOT ATTRACTIVE AND UNAFFORDABLE, UM, WAY TO PROCURE ENERGY FOR OUR CUSTOMERS.

BUT THANK, THANK YOU.

UM, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THE FOLKS, SINCE THIS SOLAR STANDARD OFFER IS BEING OFFERED TO ESSENTIALLY THIRD PARTY OWNERS, SO IT'S NOT THE TENANT IN THE STRIP MALL.

CORRECT.

IT'S THE PERSON WHO WANTS TO BUILD ON TOP OF THE STRIP MALL.

LIKE IF SUNRUN COMES IN AND WANTS TO PUT SOMETHING ON THE ROOF OF THE APARTMENT BUILDING DOWN THE STREET, OR IF, YOU KNOW, BIG LONGHORN SOLAR WANTS TO COME IN AND DO YOUR FRIEND'S DRIP MALL OR WHATEVER, YOU WOULD OFFER THIS TO THOSE BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET THE VALUE OF SOLAR RATE.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME THAT THE VALUE OF SOLAR RATE IS HIGHER, THE CUSTOMERS OF AUSTIN ENERGY ARE ALSO GETTING THE SAME SUITE INCENTIVES THAT WE JUST VOTED ON.

THAT, THAT OUT OF PRINCIPLE, OUR CHAIR IS RESPECTFULLY VOTING AGAINST EVERY SINGLE TIME.

AND, UM, IT, IT JUST TROUBLES ME THAT THE COMMERCIAL DEVELOPER IS GETTING SIGNIFICANTLY LESS BENEFITS FOR THE SAME KILOWATT HOURS BEING INJECTED INTO THE GRID THAT AL BRADEN AND I AND OUR SOLAR SYSTEMS ARE GETTING WHEN OUR PV THAT WAS BUILT WITH AUSTIN INCENTIVES AND IS GETTING VALUED SOLAR MM-HMM.

IS BEING INJECTED INTO THE GRID AND IT'S HAVING THE SAME KILOWATT HOURS ARE HAVING THE SAME IMPACT ON TRANSMISSION AND ON EMISSIONS AND ET CETERA, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.

SO I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WE SHOULD NOT BE PAYING THE SAME RATE FOR THE, FOR VALUE OF SOLAR THAT WE ARE PAYING FOR STANDARD OFFER THAT WE ARE PAYING, WILLING TO PAY FOR THE STANDARD FOR VALUE OF, I'M SORRY, I KEEP GETTING, IT'S HARD TO TRANSLATE BETWEEN THE TWO TERMS. I I EVEN GET IT CONFUSED SOMETIMES.

DON'T, DON'T FEEL BAD.

THANK YOU FOR SAYING THAT, .

YEAH.

UM, WELL, I MEAN I, I THINK I'VE COMMUNICATED OUR POSITION ON IT.

IT'S, IT'S A DIFFERENT CU IT'S A DIFFERENT TYPE OF, IT'S NOT ONE OF OUR CUSTOMERS, YOU KNOW, THAT'S NECESSARILY BRINGING THIS TO US.

IT'S A GENERATION PROVIDER.

SO ONE LAST QUESTION AND WE TREAT THEM DIFFERENTLY.

HOW, HOW DOES THE SOLAR STANDARD OFFER PRICE OR RATE COMPARE TO, HAVE YOU ACTUALLY DONE ANY MARKET RESEARCH TO TELL WHETHER THIS IS AN ATTRACTIVE RATE FOR COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT? I BELIEVE THAT IT IS.

THE ONES THAT I HAVE TALKED TO SAID THAT IT'S VIABLE AND FUNDABLE.

UM, SO THEY, THEY'VE WORKED WITH THEIR, UM, LENDING SOURCES AND HAVE GAVE, GIVEN ME THAT FEEDBACK.

THEY'RE ALSO, KEEP IN MIND THAT THEY HAD THIS VISIBILITY THAT IN MARCH OF 2026 THIS RATE IS GONNA GO UP.

AND IF YOU LOOK AT IT NOW AND ADD THOSE UP, YOU KNOW, WE'RE IT'S OVER 11 CENTS OR SOMEWHERE.

YEAH, I THINK IT'S OVER 11 CENTS ON AVERAGE ALREADY.

AND THAT'S BEFORE WE EVEN PUT IN 24 AND 25.

SO WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE MARKET'S GONNA DO THEN.

I MEAN, IT'S BEEN A PRETTY MILD SUMMER BY, UM, COMPARISON TO OTHERS.

UM, SO THAT PRICE MAY GO DOWN IF I HAD TO GUESS, BUT IT'S HARD TO SAY, UM, 'CAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF FACTORS THAT GO INTO THAT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, IT GIVES, IT GIVES PEOPLE SOME REASONABLE ASSURITY THAT THIS, THIS IS GOING UP AND THE FACT THAT WE'RE PASSING THROUGH THIS MARKET

[01:05:01]

VALUE PLUS, UM, IS I THINK IT'S PRETTY NOVEL FOR A UTILITY TO DO WELL.

THE, THE THREE YEAR FORWARD PRICING IS PRICE STABILITY IS, IS THE SINGLE BEST THING ABOUT IT.

IT'S, THAT'S A REALLY VALUABLE THING FOR A SOLAR DEVELOPER.

THANK YOU.

UM, I ACTUALLY WANT TO INTERJECT WITH MY OWN QUESTION FIRST AND THEN I SEE YOU VICE CHAIR.

UM, CAN YOU PUT THIS INTO CONTEXT FOR A LAY PERSON? WHEN I SEE SOMETHING THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, A MEGAWATT, FOR EXAMPLE, HOW BIG OF A DEPLOYMENT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? IS THIS THE SIZE OF A FOOTBALL FIELD? IS THIS THE SIZE OF A ROOFTOP OF THIS TYPICAL STRIP MALL? GIMME SOME CONTEXT AROUND THAT SO THAT I CAN UNDERSTAND SIZE AND AND SCOPE.

LET'S, LET'S COST.

UM, SO THERE'S A LOT OF HEB SYSTEMS OUT THERE, UM, THERE IN BETWEEN THREE AND 400 KW.

OKAY.

SO THEN FOR EXAMPLE, IF I HAD, I DON'T KNOW, SEVERAL HUNDRED ACRES SOMEHOW MAGICALLY IN AUSTIN THAT WASN'T BOUGHT UP FOR SOMETHING ELSE, I WOULD BE BEST TO SUBDIVIDE MY PROPERTY SO THAT I WOULD BE DOING THESE IN ONE MEGA MEGAWATT OR LESS LOTS AND HAVE SEVERAL LLCS TO CONTRACT WITH YOU TO DEVELOP THE, TO PROVIDE ELECTRICITY.

WOULD THAT BE A FAIR STATEMENT? I, RIGHT.

I WOULD HAVE LOOSE ONE.

I STILL TWO.

I MEAN THAT IS DEAL HUGE PROJECT THAT WOULD ENTAIL A LOT OF INFRASTRUCTURE.

AND I'M NOT SAYING IT'S THE SMARTEST IDEA, I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW I, I IT MAY BE YOUR STRATEGY.

AND IN FACT I'LL SAY, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE OTHER UTILITIES IN ERCOT THAT HAVE STARTED COMMUNITY SOLAR PROGRAMS AT LIKE THE 10 MEGAWATT SIZE AND THEY SPLIT THEM ALL UP INTO 999 KILOWATT CHUNKS.

OKAY.

SO NOW FOLLOWING ALONG WITH THIS, LET'S GO BACK TO OUR STANDARD, TYPICAL COSTCO SIZED INSTALLATION, 300, UH, KILOWATTS.

MM-HMM , GIVE ME REAL NUMBERS.

HOW MUCH DOES IT COST THEM TO INSTALL A SYSTEM OF THAT SIZE? WHAT KIND OF REBATES DO THEY, WHAT KIND OF BERATED PAYMENT DO THEY SEE UNDER THETO STANDARD OFFER IN THAT HYPOTHETICAL SCENARIO? I CAN'T RUN THOSE NUMBERS OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.

UM, BUT I CAN GIVE YOU A, AN ES LIKE A A 300 KILOWATT SYSTEM IS GONNA GET SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN $2 AND $2 AND 50 OR 65 CENTS A WATT MM-HMM.

INSTALLED.

SO FOR A MEGAWATT IT'S, YOU KNOW, TWO, TWO POINT IN BETWEEN 2 MILLION AND MM-HMM $2.6 MILLION AS A POINT OF INFORMATION.

WE JUST APPROVED THE E NS APPLICATION AND THAT'S FOR 3.8 MEGAWATTS INSTALLED AT A COST TOTAL SYSTEM COST OF 6.9 MILLION.

MM-HMM.

.

YEAH.

SO THEY'RE RIGHT IN THAT RANGE.

AND SO IF THEY HAD DONE LIKE I WOULD PREFER AND GONE OUT AND BONDED OUT THEIR SOLAR EQUIPMENT INSTEAD, AND THEN AS PART OF THIS PROGRAM, WHAT WOULD THEY EXPECT TO SEE AS A RETURN IF THEY WERE GENERATING POWER UNDER THIS PROGRAM? THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT.

I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IN SOME SORT OF A SCALE, WHATEVER IT IS, WHETHER IT'S COSTCO, THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, HOW MUCH MONEY WOULD COME BACK TO A GENERATOR UNDER THIS PROGRAM? UM, MAY I, IF YOU GOT AN ANSWER, PAUL, I'M HAPPY TO HEAR IT.

.

WELL, UM, YOU OF ALL PEOPLE ARE A CPA AND YOU COULD PROBABLY DO THESE FORMULAS IN YOUR SLEEP, UH, IF YOU KNEW HOW, WHAT THE FORMULAS WERE.

IT'S KIND OF LIKE THE CAPITAL, UH, AND IT, IT'S AN AMORTIZED, UM, IT'S AMORTIZED BY THE EXPECTED LIFE, UH, AT A CERTAIN INTEREST RATE.

AND THEN YOU FACTOR IN, UH, DISCOUNTS FOR THE INVESTOR TAX CREDIT AND THE UH, UH, IRA TAX CREDIT AND UM, YOU KNOW HOW MUCH IT'S GONNA GENERATE EACH YEAR AND DIVIDE IT AND IT YEAH.

AT THAT STUFF.

I UNDERSTAND.

I MEAN, I JUST WANT TO KNOW HOW MUCH OF A CHECK ARE WE WRITING TO OUR COSTCO ROOF GENERATOR? IT I A CHECK THAT'S EQUAL TO OUR AVOIDED COST.

YEAH, BUT I, I JUST WANT TO HAVE AN IDEA OF THE SIZE OF THIS.

THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET TO.

SO I SEE 7.61,

[01:10:03]

WHAT IS THAT A MULTIPLE OF, OR WHAT AM I MULTIPLYING THAT TIMES? THE, THEIR GENERATION.

SO THEY'RE, SO, SO THEY'RE 300 KILOWATTS.

I CAN GIVE YOU SOME NUMBERS.

A KILOWATT, TYPICALLY IN AUSTIN, A KILOWATT OF UH, AC POWER WILL PRODUCE SOMEWHERE AROUND 1650 KILOWATT HOURS A YEAR .

SO YOU COULD TAKE THAT 1650 KILOWATT HOURS A YEAR TIMES THE RATE, TIMES THE NUMBER OF KILOWATTS AND THAT WOULD GIVE YOU AN AVERAGE, UM, YOU KNOW, PAYMENT FOR THEIR PRODUCTION.

AND THEN LIKE PAUL SAID, THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER, YOU KNOW, THINGS IN THERE AND YOU'RE A CPA.

SO YOU, YOU KNOW, IF I CAN JUMP IN, MAKE THE SUGGESTION, MR. CHAIRMAN PAUL, I I WAS GONNA MAKE THE SUGGESTION THAT I HAVE THE ANSWER.

THERE BE A TUTORIAL WHERE WE BRING LOU UP TO SPEED , IF I MAY.

YES.

COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN THE, THE EAMS PROPOSAL MM-HMM.

THAT WE JUST APPROVED, THEIR TOTAL GENERATION FOR THE YEAR IN KILOWATT HOURS PER YEAR WOULD BE 5,589,000 KILOWATT HOURS IN CHANGE.

MULTIPLY THAT BY 7.61 CENTS AND YOU GET, UM, 1 MILLION, 149,000 AND LOTS OF CHANGE.

SO WHAT I'M HEARING IS, IS THEY WOULD'VE BEEN A GOOD CANDIDATE FOR THIS.

YEAH.

RIGHT.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE WOULD BE PAYING THEM ON THIS RATE EXCEPT THAT WE ALREADY GAVE THEM THROUGH TONIGHT'S VOTE, A SUBSIDY OF AN INCENTIVE OF $2.7 MILLION.

MM-HMM.

.

OKAY.

SEE THAT? THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THAT'S ALL I WAS TRYING TO GET TO IS GIVE ME SOMETHING WHERE I CAN LOOK AT A, COMPARE IT TO B AND HAVE A POINT OF REFERENCE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

YOU BETCHA.

THERE FURTHER DISCUSSION, FURTHER QUESTIONS? YES.

YES.

SORRY.

IF VICE CHAIR PLEASE TAKE IT AWAY.

UH, DO WE NEED TO VOTE TONIGHT? I BELIEVE THIS IS BEING DEFERRED AT THE ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION, AND I DON'T WANNA BE CROWDED INTO THIS IF WE DON'T HAVE TO DO IT TONIGHT.

ADDITIONALLY, WE HAVE ITEM SIX, WHICH PROPOSES A CHANGE TO THIS RATE.

MM-HMM, .

SO WE SHOULD DISCUSS ITEM SIX BEFORE WE VOTE ON ITEM FIVE WOULD BE HELPFUL.

DULY NOTED.

BUT RIGHT NOW WE'RE STILL UNDER THE, THE STAFF BRIEFING DISCUSSION, SO, OKAY.

COMMISSIONER SCHWARTZ HAS HIS HAND RAISED.

HE'S RELATIVELY NEW TO ME.

I HAVE TWO OF HER QUESTIONS.

YOU WANNA GO? UH, ALL RIGHT.

WHAT QUANTIFY THE SOCIETAL BENEFIT OF 2.30 CENTS? IS THIS ALL DEFERRED CARBON DIOXIDE OR ARE THERE OTHER THINGS IN IT? THE SOCIETAL BENEFIT IS A CALCULATION THAT REFERS TO THE SU THE SOCIAL COST OF CARBON REPORT FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, AND THEN TIES THAT TO THE CARBON INTENSITY OF THE ERCOT MARKET TO THEN CALCULATE WHAT THAT SOCIETAL COST OF, UM, CREATING A KILOWATT HOUR IN THE ERCOT MARKET IS.

OKAY, SO IT'S CARBON BASED.

THAT'S RIGHT.

OKAY.

UH, ONE OTHER QUESTION, COMMENT, AND I'LL, UH, DEFER TO COMMISSIONER SCHWARTZ.

UH, I, AGAIN, BRING UP THE PROBLEM OF BATTERIES.

UH, I'M, I'M REALLY WORRIED THAT EVENTUALLY, NOT TOMORROW, BUT EVENTUALLY AUSTIN IS GONNA END UP LIKE CALIFORNIA, WHERE WE HAVE SO MUCH SOLAR ON THE GRID AT THE WRONG TIME THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE GOOD FOR THE SYSTEM AND BATTERY.

SEEMS LIKE THE BEST WAY TO DEAL WITH THAT.

I THOUGHT ABOUT AND SPARED YOU ALL.

I, I HAD CREATED A COUPLE GRAPHS THAT ACTUALLY MAP OUT, UH, THE COST TO AUSTIN ENERGY DURING, UH, 24 HOURS A DAY AND DURING EACH MONTH OF THE YEAR.

AND THE, AS YOU KNOW, TIM, AND AS SOME PEOPLE, OTHER PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM KNOW, UH, IT'S NOT JUST A PEAK AT 5:00 PM ANYMORE.

UH, THERE'S REAL HIGH COSTS IN THE EARLY EVENING, UH, 6, 7, 8 O'CLOCK AT NIGHT, UH, AND

[01:15:02]

THE, UM, THEN, UH, IN THE, THE WINTER PEAK, UH, THERE'S NO SOLAR AT ALL, UH, BECAUSE THE SUN HASN'T COME UP YET.

AND SO THE, TO GET SOME SYNCHRONICITY IN ALL THIS, WE REALLY NEED A STORAGE COMPONENT.

AND IT'S JUST NOT THERE.

IT'S NOT IN WHAT'S SUGGESTED HERE.

IT'S, UH, I KNOW YOU WORK HARD, UH, SO I'M NOT TRYING TO BROWBEAT YOU TOO BADLY, BUT WE KEEP COMING UP WITH REBATES MONTH AFTER MONTH AND BEING ASKED TO APPROVE THEM, AND WE KEEP DIGGING IN A LITTLE DEEPER TO THIS DUCK CURVE PROBLEM.

UH, AND IT, AGAIN, IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN TOMORROW, BUT EVENTUALLY WE ARE GONNA DIG OURSELVES A HOLE.

COMMISSIONER SCHWARTZ, DO YOU HAVE QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? COMMISSIONER SCHWARTZ? GO AHEAD, PLEASE.

THANKS.

UM, SO I WAS JUST, UH, TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS THE ERCOT ENERGY, UH, RO HERE, WHAT IS THAT BASED ON? I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW LOAD ZONE PRICE SEPARATION SAVINGS, AVOIDED COSTS ARE INCLUDED IN THIS.

YEAH, SO, UM, AUSTIN ENERGY HAS GENERATION SOURCES THROUGHOUT THE GRID.

UM, AND THEN WE SELL THAT GENERATION INTO THE MARKET AT THAT NODE PRICE.

UM, SO WHERE THERE'S LESS LOAD, THAT PRICE TENDS TO BE LOWER SUPPLY AND DEMAND.

UM, AND THEN WE BUY ALL OF OUR ENERGY OFF OF THE AIR ERCOT GRID AT THE AUSTIN ENERGY NODE PRICE.

SO THESE, AND, AND A LOT OF THAT HAPPENS AT THE DAY AHEAD PRICE TO, FOR, YOU KNOW, STRATEGIC PURPOSES.

SO WHAT THESE ARE, UM, BASED ON IS THAT AUSTIN ENERGY NODE DAY AHEAD PRICE, BECAUSE IF WE'RE GENERATING A KILOWATT HOUR IN OUR LOAD ZONE, THAT'S A KILOWATT HOUR.

WE DON'T HAVE TO BUY OFF THE MARKET.

MM-HMM.

.

SO THAT'S WHERE IT COMES FROM.

SO IT'S LITER, IT'S, UH, LITERALLY AN AVERAGE OF THE YEARLY.

THAT WASN'T MY FAULT THIS TIME.

YOU ALL RIGHT.

FAULT WISH .

SO IT'S NOT NECESSARY.

IT'S NOT SO MUCH THE A IT'S, IT'S, IT'S THE AVERAGE OF THE KILOWATT HOUR O OVER A YEAR.

SO WE DO A WHOLE YEAR OF ANALYSIS AND WE LOOK AT THE, THE KI EVERY KILOWATT HOUR BASICALLY, AND THE PRICE THAT THE MARKET WAS AT THE TIME THAT KILOWATT HOUR WAS PRODUCED.

SO THEN WE'RE TAKING ALL OF THAT COST AND ENERGY LOAD ZONE PRICE FOR THE FULL YEAR FOR EVERY KILOWATT HOUR BOUGHT.

SO, SO FOR EVERY KILOWATT HOUR THAT WE'RE AVOIDING, OH, OKAY.

THE PURCHASE OF, UM, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT, SO, SO LIKE AT, AT NOON OR, OR LET'S SAY, YOU KNOW, AT NOON, THE KILOWATT HOUR MIGHT NOT BE WORTH AS MUCH AS WHEN THE KILOWATT HOUR IS PRODUCED AT FIVE O'CLOCK, RIGHT? BECAUSE THE MARKET PRICE IS, IS SUPPLY AND DEMAND.

THERE'S MORE DEMAND, THEN THE PRICE GOES UP.

SO WE, WE LOOK AT EVERY KILOWATT HOUR OF THE SOLAR CURVE FOR EVERY DAY OF THE YEAR AND THE PRICE OF THAT, AND THEN WE ADD ALL THOSE UP AND THEN DIVIDE 'EM OUT BY THE KILOWATT HOUR, THE TOTAL KILOWATT HOURS PRODUCED, AND THAT'S HOW WE GET THIS VALUE.

GOT IT.

OKAY.

SO THE LIKE CONGESTION SAVINGS THAT CAUSE LOAD ZONE PRICE SEPARATION, THAT'S JUST, IT'S BIG.

THAT'S REALLY BOTH OF THOSE ROWS, THE TCOS THAT ERCOT ISS CHARGING AND THE ENERGY, 'CAUSE IT REFLECTS LOAD ZONE PRICE PRICING.

YEAH, SO, SO FOR TCOS, THE TCOS ARE SET ON FOUR CP.

SO FOUR CP IS THE, THE FOUR SUMMER MONTHS, AND IT'S THE HIGHEST, UM, P IT'S YOUR PEAK USAGE DURING THOSE FOUR, SEVEN MONTHS, LIKE ONE DAY OF EACH MONTH.

AND SO THEY LOOK AT THAT PEAK USAGE OF EACH OF THOSE FOUR MONTHS CALLED FOUR CP COINCIDENCE PEAK.

UM, AND THEN THAT DETERMINES YOUR, UH, UTILITIES TRANSMISSION COSTS FOR THE WHOLE NEXT YEAR.

SO TO THE EXTENT THAT WE'RE REDUCING OUR LOAD DURING THE TIMES THAT THAT FOUR CP IS CAPTURED, THAT IS THE, THE, THAT CREATES THE VALUE.

[01:20:05]

GOT IT.

OKAY.

UM, MAY, THANKS FOR EXPLAINING THAT.

MY OTHER QUESTION, UH, WAS WHY ARE WE LOOKING AT A MEAN FROM THE LAST FIVE YEARS? IT'S, IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S SORT OF MATHEMATICALLY YOU REALLY WOULD WANNA LOOK AT A TREND LINE THAT EXTRAPOLATES THE MOST RECENT YEAR, OR USE THE MOST RECENT YEAR.

IT'S AN ENTIRE YEAR, IT SEEMS LIKE IN AN INFLATIONARY WORLD, RIGHT? IT'S BEING UNFAIR OR YOU'RE JUST GONNA ARRIVE AT A LOWER NUMBER THAN YOU WOULD THE REALITY OF THE AVOIDED COST IF YOU'RE DOING THAT.

YEAH, I CAN, THERE'S A BIT OF HISTORY BEHIND THAT.

UM, SO THE, THE VALUE OF SOLAR, UH, WAS STARTED IN 2012, UM, AND IT WAS AT A PRICE, AND THEN FRACKING CAME ALONG AND CHANGED THE, AND PLUS AT THE TIME IT WAS A FORWARD LOOKING ME METHODOLOGY.

SO WE WEREN'T, IT WASN'T AS MARKET BASED AS THIS APPROACH IS.

IT WAS MORE FORWARD LOOKING AND IT WAS HEAVILY, UM, IT WAS HEAVILY DETER OR, UM, INFLUENCED BY THE NATURAL GAS FORWARD MARKET.

THEN FRACKING CAME ALONG AND INCREASED THE SUPPLY OF NATURAL GAS DRAMATICALLY, WHICH BROUGHT THAT FORWARD MARKET CURVE DOWN, WHICH BROUGHT THE VALUE OF SOLAR DOWN.

OKAY.

SO STAKEHOLDERS WERE LIKE, OH, THE VALUE OF SOLAR'S GOING DOWN.

WE NEED TO BE PROTECTED FROM THIS.

IT'S VOLATILE.

WHAT CAN WE DO? SO WE DECIDED TO GO WITH A FIVE YEAR ROLLING AVERAGE BECAUSE WE HAD FIVE YEARS OF ANALYSIS.

THE THE PRICE WAS GOING DOWN, THAT HELPED TO SMOOTH OUT THAT PRICE CHANGE OVER TIME.

UM, SO THAT'S WHEN THAT WAS ADOPTED.

WHEN WE, IN, IN THE BASE RATE CASE OF 2022, WE, UM, UH, PROPOSED THIS NEW ANALYSIS THAT'S VERY MARKET BASED, VERY, UM, KNOWN AND MEASURABLE, UM, AND STAKEHOLDERS.

WE WANTED TO, TO, TO UPDATE THIS ANNUALLY.

STAKEHOLDERS WANTED MORE PRICE CERTAINTY, STAKEHOLDERS WANTED MORE PREDICTABILITY.

AND SO THEY NEGOTIATED THAT WE WOULD CHANGE IT NO MORE OFTEN THAN ONCE EVERY THREE YEARS.

AND WHEN WE DO, IT WOULD BE BASED ON THE PREVIOUS FIVE YEARS OF ANALYSIS SIMILAR TO THE WAY THAT WE HAD IT WITH THE PREVIOUS METHODOLOGY.

SO IT'S THE SAME MINUS THE SOCIETAL BENEFIT.

THIS IS THE VALUE OF SOLAR CALCULATION.

IT'S THE SAME, YEAH.

IT'S THE, IT'S THE SAME AVOIDED COST, VALUE, UH, EVALUATION THAT GOES INTO THE VALUE OF SOLAR, BUT JUST DOESN'T HAVE THE SOCIETAL BENEFITS IN IT.

OKAY.

BUT THEN THIS, SO, BUT THE RATE CASE DIDN'T COVER, THIS IS A NEW PROGRAM, RIGHT? IT YOU'RE, THAT'S RIGHT.

YOU'RE INSPIRED BY THAT.

BUT WE, WE WERE JUST TRYING TO, FOR CONSISTENCY PURPOSES AND TRANSPARENCY PURPOSES, WE WANTED TO KEEP EVERYTHING THE SAME.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, SO WE DON'T HAVE ONE GROUP OF STAKEHOLDERS SAYING, HERE'S THE AVOIDED COST AND ANOTHER ONE SAYING, NO, THIS IS AVOIDED COST.

AND YEAH.

YOU KNOW, AND ARE TRYING TO BE, BE BE VERY TRANSPARENT ABOUT IT.

GOT IT.

YEAH.

YEAH.

I WAS JUST TRYING TO MAKE SENSE OF IT.

O OBVIOUSLY ALSO, 'CAUSE 2021 IS A WILDLY LOWER NUMBER.

THAT'S LIKE HALF OF WHAT IT WAS FOR THE LAST, I GUESS.

YEAH, IT WAS 36 MONTHS.

SO IT WAS KIND OF PRE RESPONSE TO YURI, RIGHT? YEAH.

YEAH.

AND THEN YURI HAPPENED, RIGHT? AND THINGS CHANGED.

YEAH.

COMMISSIONER DAVIS, THANK YOU MR. HARVEY.

THIS IS, UM, VERY INSTRUCTIVE.

UM, DID I MISS, OR DO YOU HAVE PROJECTIONS TO SHARE ABOUT HOW MUCH, HOW MUCH PRODUCTION THIS IS EXPECTED TO GENERATE AT THIS OFFER PRICE? UM, YOU SAID, YOU MENTIONED BEFORE YOU'VE GOTTEN SOME POSITIVE FEEDBACK, SOUNDED KIND OF ANECDOTAL, BUT DO YOU HAVE ACTUAL PROJECTIONS FOR WHAT YOU EXPECTED TO GENERATE? IT'S HARD TO SAY WHAT THE, WHAT THE MARKET'S GONNA BEAR AND WHAT WE DON'T KNOW.

UM, WE, WE JUST DON'T HAVE ANY MARKET INFORMATION ON HOSTING COSTS.

UM, SO THAT'S A BIG KIND OF QUESTION MARK IN OUR MIND.

UM, YOU KNOW, IIII WOULD HESITATE TO REALLY TAKE A, A BIG GUESS AT IT.

AND SO IF IN SOME OF THE BACKUP MATERIALS IT IS, UM, I'VE READ THAT, YOU KNOW, PREVIOUS OFFERS, AND I KNOW THERE'S BEEN A TON OF WORK THAT'S GONE INTO THIS AND A NUMBER OF STAKEHOLDER ENGAGEMENTS AND, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF, UM, RESEARCH GONE INTO THIS.

UM, IN THE PAST THERE'S BEEN KIND OF UNDERWHELMING RESPONSE TO RFP REQUESTS.

AND, UM, SO I'M JUST CURIOUS IS, UH, THIS, YOU KNOW, THIS, IT IS A MARKET THING, RIGHT? IT'S A SUPPLY AND DEMAND, AND IS THIS THE PRICE THAT'S GONNA GENERATE THE, THE, YOU KNOW, THE RESULTS THAT WE ARE, WE'RE LOOKING TO GET? UM, IF, IF WE DON'T SEE THE PROJECTS COMING THROUGH WITH THIS OFFER, IS THERE ANY, YOU KNOW, DISCUSSION ABOUT RAISING IT OR SWEETENING THE POT OR TRYING TO MAKE IT MORE ATTRACTIVE IN ORDER TO GET THAT DEVELOPMENT? IT, THAT'S A PROBLEM THAT WE JUST DON'T HAVE YET.

UM, I, I

[01:25:01]

WOULD HOPE THAT IF WE END UP WITH HAVING THAT PROBLEM, THAT WE WOULD, I'M SURE THAT WE'LL ADDRESS IT AND DISCUSS IT AND DISCUSS OUR OPTIONS AT THAT POINT.

BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT HAVING THAT PROBLEM, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S HARD TO ADDRESS IT.

UM, BUT I MEAN, I THINK, I THINK WE COULD SAY, YOU KNOW, IF WE DON'T HAVE ANY PARTICIPATION IN THIS PROGRAM OR, OR GETTING NEGATIVE FEEDBACK FROM THE CONTRACTORS SAYING, HEY, THE PRICING ISN'T HIGH ENOUGH OR WHATEVER, WE WOULD TAKE THAT FEEDBACK AND I THINK THAT WE WOULD NEED TO GIVE THIS PROGRAM AT LEAST A YEAR TO GET OFF, GET OFF ITS, YOU KNOW, GET ON ITS FEET OR WHATEVER.

UM, I'LL SAY, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE, YOU, YOU ALL HAVE SEEN HOW EFFECTIVE THE COMMERCIAL INCENTIVES ARE NOW, BUT THE FIRST YEAR OF OFFERING THOSE INCENTIVES HARDLY ANYTHING HAPPENED BECAUSE THERE'S A LONG SALES CYCLE WITH COMMERCIAL.

SO I WANNA GIVE IT ENOUGH TIME TO, TO, YOU KNOW, FIND ITS FOOTING AND TAKE OFF IF IT'S GOING TO BEFORE MAKING A, A HASTY DECISION ON TRYING TO INCREASE THE PRICE OF IT.

AND, AND, OKAY, THANKS FOR THAT.

AND THEN JUST TO, TO CLARIFY THE REASON WHY THE SOCIETAL BENEFITS ARE NOT INCLUDED AS THEY ARE WITH THE VALUE OF SOLAR, IS BECAUSE YOU'RE TRYING TO MAKE THE PROGRAM SUSTAINABLE AND NOT INCREASE THE COST TO RATE PAYERS OR OUTSIDE OF THE PARTICIPATION IN THIS PROGRAM? THAT, YEAH, THAT ESPECIALLY AND, AND BEING THAT ALLOWS US TO SCALE IT INDEFINITELY.

WE ARE GOING TO PAUSE AT 20 MEGAWATTS JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE OPERATIONALLY EQUIPPED TO, YOU KNOW, CONTINUE AND, AND DON'T NEED TO MAKE ADJUSTMENTS IN THAT REGARD.

BUT FROM A FINANCIAL PERSPECTIVE, WE'RE COMFORTABLE WITH MOVING FORWARD, UM, WITH MULTIPLE MEGAWATTS, UM, WITH THIS APPROACH.

AND PLUS WE WOULD LIKE IT TO BE POTENTIALLY REPLICABLE FOR OTHER UTILITIES.

AND IF WE INCLUDE, UM, MORE SUBSIDY INTO IT, IT'S NOT GOING TO BE ATTRACTIVE TO OTHER UTILITIES.

VICE CHAIR, ROBBINS, YOU HAD A HAND UP PASS? OKAY.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? YOU'VE BEEN A TROOPER.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

MOVING ON IN OUR AGENDA, WE

[5. Recommend conducting a public hearing and consider proposed terms, rate and fee changes for Austin Energy – Solar Standard Offer Rider – Solar Integrator; High Load Factor Primary Voltage (Demand greater than or equal to 20,000 kW); and High Load Factor Transmission Voltage (Demand greater than or equal to 20 MW).(Part 1 of 2)]

HAVE ITEM NUMBER FIVE, RECOMMEND CONDUCTING A PUBLIC HEARING.

UM, YOU HAVE YOUR POSTING LANGUAGE IN, WELL, MOST OF YOU HAVE IT PRINTED OUT.

YOU HAVE YOUR POSTING LANGUAGE.

UM, I'M HAPPY TO ENTERTAIN DISCUSSION ON THIS OR LOOK FOR A MOTION, WHICHEVER DIRECTION THE COMMISSION WOULD LIKE TO GO.

I WOULD, I WOULD TENDER THE SUGGESTION THAT WE DEFER THIS TO OCTOBER.

I, I HAVE AMY WALKING OVER.

OH, OKAY.

SHE'S JUST GRABBING A MICROPHONE.

I THOUGHT I WAS IN TROUBLE.

, THERE HAS BEEN A SUGGESTION TO TABLE AND AMY HAS A MICROPHONE.

IT LOOKS LIKE SHE'D LIKE TO SEE SOMETHING.

UM, SORRY.

UM, THIS IS SCHEDULED TO GO TO COUNSEL ON OCTOBER 10TH.

THE EUC IS TAKING IT UP AT THEIR SEPTEMBER 30TH MEETING.

JUST FOR YOUR INFORMATION.

WELL, CAN IS A REMINDER TO OUR FRIENDS AT AUSTIN ENERGY, THEY NEED TO INTRODUCE THEMSELVES WHEN THEY SPEAK THE FIRST TIME.

THANK YOU.

AMY EVERHART, DIRECTOR OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS.

THANKS.

UH, VICE CHAIR.

ROBS CAN'T, CAN'T THE SCHEDULE BE DEFERRED? I SEE COUNSEL DEFER ITEMS ALL THE TIME TILL THE NEXT MEETING.

THAT'S NOT OUR DECISION TO MAKE, BUT I THINK WITH YOUR INPUT THAT MIGHT BE CONSIDERED, WE'RE REALLY THAT IMPORTANT.

, WAIT, COMMISSIONER DAVIS.

CAN, CAN I, CAN WE JUST CLARIFY FOR, UH, WHAT THIS RECOMMENDATION ARE WE RE RECOMMENDING HAVING A PUBLIC HEARING? WHAT IS CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING, CONSIDER PROPOSED TERMS? WHAT, WHAT WOULD BE BE VOTING ON THAT IS AN EXCELLENT QUESTION.

IS THERE ANYONE FROM AUSTIN ENERGY COULD EXPLAIN WHAT EXACTLY THIS RESOLUTION IS? 'CAUSE I READ THIS TOO, AND I WAS TRYING TO FIND THE, THE THEREFORE TYPE LANGUAGE AND WAS NOT, UH, VERY EASY TO FIND.

YEAH, YOU'RE, YOU'RE RECOMMENDING THAT THE CITY COUNCIL HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING AS WELL AS APPROVE A NEW TARIFF FOR THIS PROGRAM.

[01:30:04]

TWO SEPARATE ITEMS. OH, SORRY.

THAT'S THE SAME ITEM, BUT THEN THERE'S, THAT'S ANOTHER ITEM.

I AM GENERALLY IN FAVOR OF PUBLIC HEARINGS.

, AS AM I COMMISSIONER.

SILVER STATEMENT.

.

THANK YOU.

I WONDER IF WE CAN MAKE, AMEND THIS TO SEPARATE OUT THE PUBLIC HEARING FROM THE ACTUAL SCHEDULE ITSELF, BECAUSE IT'S HARD TO OPPOSE A PUBLIC HEARING, BUT I CANNOT, I DO NOT SUPPORT, SINCE I'M THE, THE PERSON WHO BROUGHT IN THE PROPOSAL TO DO THE VALUE OF SOLAR RATE FOR THE STANDARD OFFER, I CANNOT SUPPORT THE VOTING ON THIS WITHOUT RESOLVING THE, THE RATE ISSUE FIRST.

SO I SUGGEST THAT EITHER WE SEPARATE THIS OUT AND ONLY APPROVE THE HEARING PORTION OF IT, OR WE TAKE UP THE VALUE OF SOLAR RATE FOR SOLAR STANDARD OFFER.

UM, WHATEVER IT IS, RESOLUTION, THAT'S ITEM SIX, WHICH IS WHAT I'D LIKE TO DEFER.

UM, WE COULD DO A, UH, A POLLING OF THE COMMISSION AND SEE IF THEY WOULD LIKE TO LAY THIS ONE ON THE TABLE AND COME BACK TO IT LATER IN THE MEETING.

AND THAT WAY YOU COULD MOVE ON TO ITEM NUMBER SIX AND HASH THAT PIECE OUT AND THEN RETURN BACK TO NUMBER FIVE LATER.

DOES THAT SEEM AMENABLE TO THE COMMISSION? IF IT WOULD SPEED THINGS UP, I MOVE TO TABLE .

ALL RIGHT.

ARE THERE ANY OBJECTIONS TO TABLING? ALRIGHT, WE'LL LAY THIS ONE ON THE TABLE AND WE'LL PICK IT UP AGAIN IN A LITTLE WHILE.

SO MOVING ON

[6. Discussion and recommend approval that Austin Energy pay the Value of Solar rate on all solar projects subscribing under the Solar Standard Offer Program.]

TO ITEM NUMBER SIX IN OUR AGENDA DISCUSSION AND RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE AUSTIN ENERGY THAT AUSTIN ENERGY PAY THE VALUE OF SOLAR RATE ON ALL SOLAR PROJECTS, WHICH JUST SO HAPPENS TO SOUND EERILY SIMILAR TO WHAT WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT EARLIER.

UM, I DON'T REMEMBER WHO THE INITIAL SPONSOR WAS ON THIS ONE.

COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN, YOU WANNA SET THE TABLE FOR US PLEASE? THANK YOU.

I HAD HAD THE, UM, THE HONOR OF HAVING MS. CO-SPONSOR BY COMMISSIONER FARMER AND ROBINS, MY THANKS TO THEM BOTH.

I WALKED OUT OF THE BRIEFING LAST TWO WEEKS AGO ON THE, THE SOLAR STANDARD OFFER PROGRAM, PRETTY CONFUSED.

AND IT TOOK ME A WHILE TO SORT OF TALK THIS THROUGH WITH SEVERAL PEOPLE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT I WAS CONFUSED ABOUT AND HOW TO UN CONFUSE MYSELF.

ALWAYS A CHALLENGE.

AND, AND IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WE KNOW THAT THE AUSTIN SOLAR INCENTIVE PROGRAM WORKS.

WE KNOW THAT THE VALUE OF SOLAR RATE IS SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE RESPOND TO, UM, AND I FUNDAMENT, BUT WE KNOW THAT SINCE THE SOLAR STANDARD OFFER PROGRAM IS TARGETING THIRD PARTY DEVELOPMENT, RENT A ROOF, IF YOU WILL, OR DO YOUR OWN, YOU KNOW, HAVE A COMMERCIAL SOLAR DEVELOPMENT THAT ISN'T A, THAT DOESN'T BELONG TO A HOMEOWNER OR A COSTCO OR AN HEBI FUNDAMENTALLY, AS YOU'VE HEARD, UM, DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WE THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO PAY LESS FOR SOLAR THAT'S GENERATED BY A THIRD PARTY DEVELOPER ON A RENT A ROOF SCHEME.

THEN WE WOULD FOR HOMEOWNERS OR SCHOOL DISTRICTS OR WHOMEVER WHO ARE GETTING BOTH THIS SUITE INCENTIVE CASH AND A SUITE VALUE OF SOLAR RATE.

AND SO THE PROPOSAL, ALL OF THE, WHERE WHEREASES GO INTO THE, WHAT ARE THE BACKGROUND FACTORS THAT MAKE IT HARDER TO DEVELOP COMMERCIAL SOLAR AND LESS COST COMPETITIVE, AND THEREFORE WE COULD, IF OUR GOAL IS TO GET MORE SOLAR DEVELOPED IN AUSTIN, THEN SORT OF THE FUNDAMENTAL RULE OF ECONOMICS IS IF YOU WANT MORE, YOU HAVE TO PAY MORE FOR IT.

AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW OFFERING A SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER RATE IS GOING TO GET MORE FOR IT WHEN WE'VE ALREADY HAD TWO HISTORIC THIRD PARTY DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS THAT APPARENTLY DIDN'T WORK.

IF I FOLLOW THE AUSTIN ENERGY HISTORY OF SOLAR OFFERS CORRECTLY, THEREFORE LOTS OF WAREHOUSES.

BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS, PARTICULARLY SINCE ONE OF OUR TARGETS FOR THIS IS LOW INCOME

[01:35:01]

MULTIFAMILY HOUSING, WHICH WE KNOW IS A PRETTY HEAVY HURDLE.

IF YOU HAVE TO PAY MORE FOR THAT, I'M WILLING TO PAY MORE FOR THAT.

AND I'M WILLING TO PAY THE VALUE OF SOLAR RATE TO GET IT.

AND I'M NOT CONFIDENT THAT PAYING A, THE, THE LOWER SOLAR STANDARD OFFER RATE WILL GET US THE LEVEL OF SOLAR DEVELOPMENT THAT AUSTIN ENERGY HOPES FOR.

THAT'S WHAT I GOT.

THANK YOU.

VICE CHAIR.

ROBS, AGAIN, I WOULD LIKE TO DEFER THIS, UM, TILL OCTOBER, BUT BEYOND THAT, UM, UH, COULD MR. HARVEY, UH, EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THE PREVIOUS PROGRAMS DID NOT DO SO WELL AND WHY YOUR, UH, WHY THIS STANDARD OFFER PROPOSAL MIGHT BE DIFFERENT? SURE.

UH, TIM HARVEY, CUSTOMER RENEWAL SOLUTIONS, UM, THERE, THERE WAS NO PREVIOUS PROGRAM, HOWEVER, THERE WERE TWO PREVIOUS ATTEMPTS TO PROCURE MORE CAPACITY THROUGH, UH, RFPS REQUEST FOR PROPOSALS.

UM, THOSE RFPS, UM, WHILE THEY RESULTED IN PROPOSALS, THE PROPOSALS THAT WE WERE GIVEN WERE EITHER TOO EXPENSIVE OR IF THEY WERE IN THE PRICE RANGE THEN, AND SOME OF THEM WERE, UM, THEN THEY LACKED SITE CONTROL AND OR THEY WERE, UM, PROPOSING PROJECTS THAT WEREN'T VIABLE.

LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, ONE OF THEM WAS IN THE, LIKE, TO BE LOCATED IN THE PRESERVE.

UM, SO THAT'S OBVIOUSLY NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

BUT YEAH, THAT'S, AND, AND OUR US IN ENERGY GOES OUT FOR RFP, YOU KNOW, QUITE A BIT.

IF WE CONTINUE TO GO OUT FOR RFPS WITHOUT, UM, SUCCESSFULLY CREATING A PROJECT FROM THEM, THEN IT CREATES A BURDEN ON THE CONTRACTOR COMMUNITY THAT'S NOT FRUITFUL.

AND THEN THEY WOULD BE LESS LIKELY TO CONTINUE TO RESPOND TO OUR RFPS THE MORE THAT WE DO THAT.

SO WE DON'T REALLY, WE DON'T LIKE TO GO OUT FOR RFPS, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT ANY PROJECT RESULTING OUT OF THAT.

SO THIS IS A DIFFERENT APPROACH TO TRY TO GIVE THEM MORE PRICE TRANSPARENCY UP FRONT SO THAT WAY THEY CAN IDENTIFY WHAT THE VIABLE PROJECT THAT MEETS OUR CRITERIA IS.

COMMISSIONER TIME, WOULD YOU BE, UM, AMENABLE TO POSTPONING THIS UNTIL OCTOBER? BOTH ITEMS OR JUST THIS? UM, AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT, POSTPONING IT GETS US MORE TIME TO THINK IT THROUGH.

UM, MS. EVERHART, IS THERE A WAY TO ASK THE CITY COUNCIL TO DEFER THEIR CONSIDERATION WITH THIS ITEM? THAT WOULD BE, UH, THE ITEM WE JUST TABLED? WELL, WELL, I THINK WE DEFERRED IT, BUT NOT TABLED IT.

MS. EVERHART, UM, THAT, UH, I, I THINK YOU'RE NOT ACTING ON THESE AND SAYING YOU TABLED THEM WOULD SIGNAL TO THEM THAT YOU NEED MORE TIME, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S A MECHANISM FOR US TO JUST ASK THEM TO POSTPONE IT.

IT, IT WOULD BE NICE TO DO BOTH.

MM-HMM.

, I DON'T, I HAVE NOT ENOUGH EXPERIENCE WITH CITY COUNCIL TO KNOW WHETHER THEY READ SIGNALS APPROPRIATELY.

UM, I WILL SAY THAT WE HAVE THIS PRESENTATION IN FRONT OF THEM ON TUESDAY AT THE AUSTIN ENERGY UTILITY OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE MEETING.

SO IF YOU WANTED TO COME SPEAK THERE AND ASK THEM TO WAIT, YOU COULD, THAT WOULD BE ONE APPROACH.

GOOD IDEA.

THANK YOU FOR THE RECOMMENDATION.

UH, I'D BE WILLING TO DO IT.

I'D ALSO JUST LIKE TO REMIND FOLKS THE POWER OF A NO VOTE SOMETIMES IS PRETTY FUN TOO.

SO JUST KEEP THAT ONE IN YOUR BACK POCKET FOR THE FUTURE.

OKAY.

IS THERE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS ITEM? ANY ACTION YOU WISH TO TAKE? I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S A PRETTY LONG ONE.

OH, ERIC LET YOU BORROW MINE FOR A LITTLE WHILE.

[01:40:02]

ITEM SIX? HMM.

YEAH, SHE'S TALKING ABOUT ITEM SIX SIX, PLEASE.

YES, COMMISSIONER DAVIS.

AND WHILE, WHILE WE'RE WAITING ON THAT, UH, I, I APPRECIATE MY FELLOW COMMISSIONER ROBBINS, UH, YOU KNOW, INTEREST IN, IN POSTPONING.

AND I, I WILL SAY THAT FOR, FOR MYSELF, I'M, I'M NOT THERE YET.

UM, IN SUPPORT OF THIS PARTICULAR RESOLUTION TONIGHT, UM, GIVEN WHAT WE HEARD FROM STAFF AROUND THE RATIONALE BEHIND THE PRICING, THE CONCERNS ABOUT SUSTAINABILITY AND SCALABILITY, LIKE PRO BEING ABLE TO SUSTAIN THE PROGRAM AND SCALE IT, UM, I, I THINK THE MARKET WILL GIVE US THE SIGNALS, UM, TO SAY WHETHER IT'S APPROPRIATE.

UM, I, I, I DO SEE THE MERIT IN, IN, YOU KNOW, EQUATING THO THOSE VALUES AND SAYING THAT THIS IS WHAT WE THINK THAT THE VALUE OF SOLAR IS, WE SHOULD PAY IT WHEREVER.

UM, BUT I, I DON'T FEEL PERSONALLY EQUIPPED TO, UM, ACT, ACT AS AN EXPERT ON WHAT THEY SHOULD CHARGE FOR THE STANDARD OFFER, UM, IN A SITUATION.

SO, SO FOR THAT, I THINK I'M PROBABLY NOT GOING TO SUPPORT THIS RESOLUTION TONIGHT.

UM, ANOTHER REASON TO VICE CHAIR ROBERTS NEVER FAILED TO REMIND ME OF MY PLACE , UH, ANOTHER GOOD REASON TO POSTPONE IT UNTIL OCTOBER.

UH, AND I BELIEVE I HAVE THE BANDWIDTH TO BE AT THE AUSTIN ENERGY COMMITTEE MEETING AND SPEAK ON, UH, BEHALF OF US TO ASK THEM TO POSTPONE THE HEARING.

OKAY.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS OR ACTIONS THAT WISH WOULD TAKE, WISH TO BE TAKEN ON THIS ITEM? VICE CHAIR ROBBINS? I JUST HOPE COMMISSIONER SILVER STEIN WILL FORGIVE ME.

, SHE'S GONNA PUT ANOTHER POWER CORD RANDOMLY ON THE FLOOR FOR YOU.

OVER HERE.

.

ALRIGHT.

SO MY RECOMMENDATION ON THIS ONE WOULD BE LIKE THE LAST ONE WHERE WE GO AHEAD AND TABLE THIS ONE EXCEPT NOW WE'LL SAY WE'RE TABLING TO THE OCTOBER MEETING, SO THAT THAT WAY IT WILL POP BACK UP AGAIN IN OUR AGENDA NEXT MONTH FOR US TO BE ABLE TO DISCUSS FURTHER.

HMM.

YEAH, WELL THAT'S, I'M GIVING THEM THERE, GIVING THEM THEIR, THEIR, THEIR GUIDELINES HERE.

UH, SO THAT WOULD BE MY RECOMMENDATION ON, UH, WHAT WE DO WITH THIS ONE.

AND THEN WHEN WE RETAKE UP NUMBER FIVE, YOU WOULD DO THE SAME THING ON THAT ONE AS WELL TO TABLE THAT ONE TO THE OCTOBER MEETING.

THAT ALL MAKE SENSE? I AM HAPPY TO ENTERTAIN MOTIONS.

COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN HAS MOVED TO TABLE THIS ONE TO NEXT MONTH.

SECOND, SECONDED BY VICE CHAIR ROBBINS.

UH, WITHOUT OBJECTION, WE'LL CONSIDER THIS THING TABLED TILL NEXT MONTH.

MOVING ON IN YOUR AGENDA, DID WE NEED TO OFFICIALLY VOTE ON TABLING ITEM FIVE? WELL, I WAS GONNA ROLL TO THE END, BUT I'M MORE THAN HAPPY TO GO BACK TO NUMBER

[5. Recommend conducting a public hearing and consider proposed terms, rate and fee changes for Austin Energy – Solar Standard Offer Rider – Solar Integrator; High Load Factor Primary Voltage (Demand greater than or equal to 20,000 kW); and High Load Factor Transmission Voltage (Demand greater than or equal to 20 MW).(Part 2 of 2)]

FIVE.

JUST THE SAME, SEEING NO OBJECTION FROM OVER THERE ON THE AE SIDE.

LET'S DO THAT.

WE'LL GO BACK TO NUMBER FIVE.

MOVE TO TABLE MOTION BY MR. SILVERSTEIN.

SECONDED BY THE VICE CHAIR WITHOUT OBJECTION.

WE'LL TABLE THAT ONE TO OCTOBER AS WELL.

MOVING ON IN OUR AGENDA NOW

[7. Recommend approval of a resolution authorizing Austin Water to continue the GoPurple pilot program and issue incentives on a pilot basis during Fiscal Year 2024-2025 for alternative onsite water reuse systems and reclaimed water connections for new commercial, mixed use, and multi-family developments in the total aggregate amount of $4,000,000, with a reimbursement amount not to exceed $500,000 per project.]

WE'RE ON TO ITEM NUMBER SEVEN.

A LITTLE BIT OF A PALLET CLEANSER HERE.

NOW, UH, WE'RE GOING TO BE, UH, DISCUSSING, UH, RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING AUSTIN WATER ON ITS GO PURPLE PILOT PROGRAM.

DO WE HAVE SOMEBODY FROM AUSTIN MORTAR HERE TO TALK ABOUT THIS TONIGHT? GOOD EVENING.

I'M CATHERINE DINKY, A SUPERVISING ENGINEER WITH AUSTIN WATERS ONSITE.

CAN YOU LIFT THE MICROPHONE? THERE YOU GO.

ALRIGHT.

ONSITE WATER RE AND RECLAIMED WATER TEAM.

SORRY.

CATHERINE DINKY FROM AUSTIN WATER SUPERVISING ENGINEER.

THANK YOU.

[01:45:03]

DO YOU HAVE QUESTIONS OR DID YOU, I WAS HOPING YOU COULD DO A GENERAL SET THE TABLE, TELL US WHAT IT IS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT HERE.

SURE.

UM, SO IF YOU RECALL, WE WERE HERE IN FEBRUARY WHEN THE, UH, AUSTIN WATERS GO PURPLE PROGRAM, WHICH INCLUDED NEW CODE REQUIREMENTS FOR, UM, ONSITE WATER REUSE AND RECLAIMED WATER CONNECTIONS FOR MULTIFAMILY.

COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENTS WERE ADOPTED IN CONJUNCTION WITH, UM, AN INCENTIVE PROGRAM.

AND SO, UM, WE ARE, THAT WAS APPROVED BY COUNCIL IN MARCH OF THIS YEAR.

AND SO FOR THE INCENTIVE PORTION, WE'RE ASKING FOR REAUTHORIZATION FOR THE PILOT PROGRAM FOR THIS COMING FISCAL YEAR.

OKAY.

VICE CHAIR ROBERTS, DOES THIS GIVE REBATES TO CUSTOMERS WHO ARE REQUIRED TO DO THIS BY CODE FOR CERTAIN PORTIONS OF, UM, OF THE CODE REQUIREMENTS? THERE ARE REBATES, CORRECT? DOESN'T, ISN'T THAT KIND OF AN OXYMORON IF YOU'RE OR A, A PARADOX IF IT'S REQUIRED, WHY ARE WE PAYING FOR IT? YES.

BECAUSE OF THE ADDITIONAL COST THAT, UH, THESE, UM, CODE REQUIREMENTS INCUR ON THE PARTICULAR DEVELOPMENTS.

UM, THE UTILITY DEVELOPED, UH, REBATES TO COST PARTICIPATE FOR THE, UH, INSTALLATION OF THINGS LIKE DUAL PLUMBING, WATER TREATMENT SYSTEMS AND, UH, RECLAIMED MAIN EXTENSIONS.

I'M, I'M SORRY.

AREN'T THEY REQUIRED? YES.

UH, I, I'M A DEMOCRAT, BUT I'M KIND OF DIS INCLINED TO DIS TO GO WITH MY FRIEND THE LIBERTARIAN OVER HERE.

I, IT'S A BRIDGE TOO FAR FROM ME.

I CAN'T SPEAK FOR ANYONE ELSE.

WHILE, WHILE YOU RILED UP, I'LL ALSO REMIND YOU THAT THE STATE OF TEXAS REQUIRES YOU TO PAY A FEE FOR MAINTAINING YOUR OWN CAR.

KEEP THAT IN MIND.

YOU NEVER ACTUALLY OWN IT, UH, THAT HAVEN'T BEEN SAID.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, ? IF NOT, I'M MORE THAN HAPPY TO ENTERTAIN A MOTION.

COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN, FIRE AWAY.

UM, IS THERE A WAY TO CONTINUE THE PILOT PROGRAM WITHOUT ISSUING INCENTIVES? IF YOU, IF THIS IS REQUIRED, UM, THEN IS IT STILL A PILOT? YEAH, SO I THINK THE WHOLE SORT OF THIS, THE INCENTIVES ARE PART OF THE OVERALL GO PURPLE PROGRAM WHERE, UH, WE'RE TRYING TO NORMALIZE DUAL PLUMBING WITHIN BUILDINGS LIKE THIS ONE.

UM, AND TRY TO GET, UH, ADOPTION, EARLY ADOPTION EVEN AS IT'S REQUIRED.

IT'S STILL RELATIVELY NEW PRACTICE IN, UH, COMMERCIAL MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENT.

AND SO THAT IS THE WHOLE KIND OF PURPOSE OF HAVING THE CODE REQUIREMENTS AND INCENTIVES IN THE INITIAL STAGES OF THE PROGRAM.

UM, AND IN EACH YEAR EVALUATE THE KIND OF PROGRAM PARTICIPATION AND REEVALUATE WHETHER OR NOT THE INCENTIVES NEED TO CONTINUE.

SO IF THERE'S A LIMITED INCENTIVE POD, ARE YOU GONNA SET UP THE PILOT AS ESSENTIALLY A RACE, THE FIRST, THE FIRST THREE CALLERS GET THE INCENTIVE MONEY KIND OF THING, RATHER THAN, UM, BECAUSE I, I'M WITH, WITH YOU ALL ON THE IDEA THAT I GET EARLY WANTING EARLY ACTION TO HAPPEN AND I GET NOT WANTING TO PAY OUT MONEY IF PEOPLE HAVE TO DO IT ANYWAY, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO MUCH OF IT YET ANYWAY, SO I'M, I'M STUCK WITH THE, UNLESS THE PURPOSE OF THE INCENTIVE IS TO GET PEOPLE TO MOVE FAST AND TO BRAG ABOUT IT, YOU'VE KIND OF LOST ME ON THE INCENTIVES ANOTHER PRECINCT HEARD FROM.

OKAY.

OKAY.

GOOD EVENING, COMMISSIONERS.

MY NAME IS KEVIN CRIT

[01:50:01]

AND I'M WITH AUSTIN WATER.

I'M ASSISTANT DIRECTOR.

UM, APPRECIATE CATHERINE'S, UH, EXERCISE HERE.

LEMME JUST TRY TO CLARIFY A LITTLE BIT.

UM, I, I THINK PART OF THIS, AND AS CATHERINE UM, MENTIONED, I THINK WE'RE VERY EARLY IN THE IMPLEMENTATION OF OUR GO PURPLE, PURPLE PROGRAM.

WE ARE ONE OF THE FEW CITIES IN THE UNITED STATES THAT MANDATE DUAL PLUMBING AND BUILDINGS.

AND SO A LOT OF THIS IS A BIT OF A BALANCE.

WHEN WE TOOK THIS PARTICULAR ITEM TO, UM, COMMISSION AND THROUGH, EXCUSE ME, THROUGH TO COUNCIL AND THROUGH OUR PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT PROCESS, UM, YOU KNOW, WE, WE HAD BALANCED INPUT FROM BOTH SIDES.

IT SAID, WELL, YOU KNOW, IT, IT, IT MAKES SENSE TO DO THIS AND WE CAN SEE THE INCLUSION OF THESE REQUIREMENTS IN CODE, BUT RECOGNIZE THAT THERE'S A COST TO THAT.

AND SO WE'VE IDENTIFIED THIS PILOT PROGRAM AND RECOMMEND CONTINUING THIS PILOT PROGRAM TO TRY TO COVER SOME OF THOSE COSTS.

UNDERSTAND THAT THE INCENTIVE, CATHERINE, WHERE'D YOU GO? YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO STAND UP HERE.

UM, SORRY, I MAY, I MAY HAVE TO PHONE A FRIEND.

UM, RECOGNIZE THAT THESE INCENTIVES DON'T COVER THE ENTIRE COST OF ANY OF THESE INSTALLATIONS.

UM, AND I THINK THIS INCENTIVE PROGRAM ALSO CAN INCENTIVIZE ELEMENTS THAT AREN'T ACTUALLY FULLY REQUIRED BY CODE.

SO THE REQUIREMENTS IN CODE ARE FAIRLY STRAIGHTFORWARD.

VERY LARGE BUILDINGS OVER 250,000 SQUARE FEET ARE REQUIRED TO EITHER CONNECT TO THE CENTRALIZED SYSTEM OR DEVELOP AN ONSITE SYSTEM.

YOU MAY RECALL THERE'S A VERY, A LABYRINTH OF DESCRIPTION OF WHO'S REQUIRED TO CONNECT, BUT IN SOME CASES, UM, DEVELOPMENTS ARE NOT REQUIRED.

AND SO, AS AN EXAMPLE, UM, AFFORDABLE HOUSING IS NOT REQUIRED TO CONNECT.

THIS INCENTIVE PROGRAM WOULD HELP ALLOW THEM OR PROVIDE THEM AN OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE USING SOME FINANCIAL INCENTIVES.

SO THAT'S KIND OF, I, I RECOGNIZE THIS MAY SEEM A LITTLE UNORTHODOX THAT ON ONE HAND, ELEMENTS OF THIS ARE REQUIRED BY CODE, BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, WE'RE ALSO TRYING TO INCENTIVIZE, AGAIN, I THINK A LOT OF THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE EARLY STAGE THAT WE ARE IN TRYING TO ADVANCE THIS PROGRAM.

UH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS, UH, COMMISSIONER SCHWARTZ HAD HIS HAND UP.

YOU GO FIRST.

OH, WELL YOU HAD, WELL, WHATEVER.

IT'S FINE.

COMMISSIONER SCHWARTZ.

OKAY.

UH, I WAS JUST GONNA ASK, ARE THESE ACTUALLY DIFFERENT? THEY'RE REQUIRED, UH, ITEMS ARE, ARE THEY, ARE THEY NOT PAYING FOR THE SAME INFRASTRUCTURE THAT THE INCENTIVIZED ITEMS ARE? YOU, YOU'RE SORT OF, IT WAS UNCLEAR.

HARD TO FOLLOW.

I'LL TRY TO ANSWER IT THIS WAY AND ASK CATHERINE TO CORRECT ME IF SHE DOES THAT.

WELL, UM, YOU KNOW, WITHIN THE WORLD OF ONSITE REUSE, OR ACTUALLY ANY, UM, SUSTAINABLE WATER REUSE OPPORTUNITY, THERE'S A RIGHT WIDE VARIETY OF DIFFERENT APPLICATIONS.

AND SO FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO VISIT OUR PERMITTING AND DEVELOPMENT CENTER, THAT'S ONE VERY, UM, SIGNIFICANT APPLICATION OF ONSITE REUSE WHERE WE, IT'S A PILOT PROGRAM.

THE CITY OF AUSTIN ACTUALLY HAS BUILT A PILOT BLACKWATER TREATMENT PLANT AT THAT BUILDING.

SO THAT'S SORT OF ONE EXERCISE, RIGHT? UM, ANOTHER VERSION OF THAT LOOKS MORE LIKE THE CITY DOWNTOWN LIBRARY WHERE THEY USE RAINWATER HARVESTING AND A, A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT OTHER TECHNIQUES TO DO, UM, TOILET FLUSHING.

SO AGAIN, MANY DIFFERENT APPLICATIONS AND OPPORTUNITIES.

I THINK THIS PROGRAM ALLOWS US TO EITHER INCENTIVIZE, YOU KNOW, AREAS WHERE IT'S NOT REQUIRED OR INCENTIVIZE, UM, A APPLICATIONS WHERE THE APPLICANT IS GOING ABOVE AND BEYOND.

UM, BUT IT DOES ALLOW, AND, AND SO I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S THE BASIS FOR THE PROGRAM.

SO I'M NOT SURE IF I ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION, BUT I'LL TAKE ANOTHER SHOT.

SO IT'S LIKE A CASE BY CASE.

WE'LL PAY YOU TO DO THIS PROPOSAL? ABSOLUTELY.

OKAY.

ABSOLUTELY.

VICE CHAIR ROBBINS WHO'S REQUIRED TO INSURE HIS CAR BY THE STATE OF TEXAS.

THANK YOU FOR THE INTRODUCTION.

CHAIR STONE , UH, I MIGHT BE CONVINCED IF WE REWORDED THIS SO THAT IT STATED SPECIFICALLY THAT THIS IS TO, THIS IS FOR CUSTOMERS WHO DO NOT HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE CODE.

I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT.

COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN AND I HEARD FOR MEASURES THAT ARE NOT PART OF THE CODE, CORRECT.

SO THOSE ARE

[01:55:01]

BOTH OPPORTUNITIES, BUT I DO WANNA BE CLEAR THAT IF YOU'RE REQUIRED TO COMPLY WITH THE CODE, AND WHEN I SAY COMPLY WITH THE CODE, THAT MEANS I GET CATHERINE TO COME CLARIFY.

BUT IF YOU ARE DEVELOPING A BUILDING OVER 250,000 SQUARE FEET, RIGHT? AND YOU ARE WITHIN 500 FEET OF THE CENTRALIZED RECLAIM SYSTEM, YOU'RE REQUIRED TO DO A PLUM AND CONNECT.

UM, I MEAN, I GUESS IN, IN THEORY THEY WOULD BE THROUGH THIS PROGRAM, THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO APPLY FOR, YOU KNOW, SOME LEVEL OF, UM, INCENTIVE.

NOW I'LL HAVE TO GET CATHERINE TO SORT OF GO THROUGH THE DETAILS ABOUT WHAT THAT LEVEL OF INCENTIVE WOULD BE.

YOU MIGHT KIND OF DESCRIBE KIND OF THAT FRAMEWORK.

SURE.

SO THAT'S, THAT'S A GOOD EXAMPLE.

SO A LARGE DEVELOPMENT PROJECT IS OVER 250,000 SQUARE FEET.

IF IT'S WITHIN 500 FEET OF THE RECLAIMED WATER SYSTEM, IT'S REQUIRED TO CONNECT TO THE RECLAIMED WATER SYSTEM.

SO THEY HAVE TO EXTEND THE MAIN UP TO 500 FEET TO THEIR PROPERTY, CONNECT IT TO DUAL PLUMBING WITHIN AND WITHIN THEIR PROPERTY.

AND SO THE INCENTIVES THAT THEY'RE ELIGIBLE FOR ARE, UH, A RE UM, UP TO $36,000 TOWARDS THEIR EXPEDITED BUILDING PLAN REVIEW FEES THAT, UM, SO THAT WE CAN, THEY CAN HAVE AN EXPEDITED PLAN REVIEW PROCESS WITHIN THE CITY, AND THEN THEY CAN APPLY FOR A REBATE FOR UP TO, UM, 25% OF THE COST TO INSTALL THE NEW MAINE WITHIN, UM, THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY.

AND SO, UM, THAT'S A, A LIKE A COST PARTICIPATION WITH, FROM THE UTILITY.

AND THE BENEFIT THAT WE GET IS THAT THEY'RE EXTENDING THE MAINE THROUGH GREATER PARTS OF THE CITY THAT WILL ALLOW OTHER PROJECTS TO THEN CONNECT AND BE WORKED.

SO THEY'RE HELPING TO BUILD OUT THE RECLAIMED WATER SYSTEM.

SO THAT'S WHAT THESE FUNDS ARE GOING TOWARDS.

COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.

AND ONE OTHER QUESTION, PLEASE.

THE, IT APPEARS THAT THE CITY COUNCIL AUTHORIZED THIS TO BE SPENT UP TO 5.6 MILLION, BUT Y'ALL ARE ONLY ASKING FOR APPROVAL OF 4 MILLION.

IS THAT CORRECT? FOR THIS FISCAL YEAR? YES.

OKAY, THANK YOU.

VICE CHAIR ROBBINS.

SO THIS IS ONLY TO HELP THEM EXPAND THIS FOR OTHER CUSTOMERS? IT'S, IT'S, I MEAN, FOR, FOR THAT PARTICULAR EXAMPLE, IT, WHAT WE'RE CONTRIBUTING TOWARDS IS THE COST OF INSTALL, INSTALLING A PUBLIC MAIN, WHICH WILL BUILD OUT OUR RECLAIMED WATER SYSTEM AND ALLOW MORE CUSTOMERS TO CONNECT TO IT.

BUT THAT'S NOT THE ONLY THING, THE ONLY TYPE OF INCENTIVE THAT'S OR REBATE THAT'S AVAILABLE.

YEAH.

YEAH.

SO FOR AN, FOR A PROJECT THAT IS, UH, VOLUNTARILY INSTALLING AN ONSITE WATER REUSE SYSTEM, SO IF YOU'RE REQUIRED TO BY CODE, YOU CAN'T APPLY FOR THE INCENTIVE TO GO TOWARD YOUR TREATMENT SYSTEM OR, UM, YOUR DUAL PLUMBING, BUT THAT EXEMPT AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROJECT COULD APPLY FOR THAT INCENTIVE.

THANK YOU.

COMMISSIONER SCHWARTZ? YEAH, I WAS JUST GONNA ASK, SO HOW MUCH OF THE, THE, UH, TOTAL MONEY GIVEN OUT, SO, SO FAR HAS GONE TO VOLUNTARY VERSUS REQUIRED PROJECTS? SO THIS, UH, PILOT AND CENTER PROGRAM WAS ORIGINALLY, IT'S IN A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT FORM SINCE GO PURPLE, BUT INITIALLY IT STARTED FOR JUST ONSITE WATER REUSE SYSTEMS. THE ONES THAT ARE CAPTURING RAINWATER OR, OR BLACK WATER FROM IN THE OWN, OWN THEIR OWN BUILDINGS.

WE'VE RESERVED $1.25 MILLION, BUT WE'VE ONLY PAID OUT A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS TO DATE BECAUSE THESE PROJECTS TAKE YEARS TO, UM, UH, SORT OF DEVELOP AND IMPLEMENT.

AND SINCE WE HAVE ADOPTED THE NEW REVAMPED INCENTIVE PROGRAM THAT KIND OF TARGETS THESE NEW REQUIREMENTS, WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY APPLICATIONS SINCE, SINCE MARCH.

YOU HAVEN'T HAD ANY APPLICATIONS VOLUNTARY OR, OR THEY'RE GOING TOWARDS ANY OF THESE PROJECTS YET? IN THE LAST IT'S JUST SIX MONTHS, OR IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS, YES.

WE HAVE NOT HAD IT, WE'VE HAD ZERO APPLICATIONS.

IF I MIGHT, IF I MIGHT CLARIFY, WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY GRANT INCENTIVE APPLICATIONS.

WE HAVE, HOWEVER, RECEIVED WHAT, LIKE 12 DEVELOPMENT APPLICATIONS THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO EITHER GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS OR BE,

[02:00:01]

I MEAN, TO, TO CONNECT OR BE EXEMPT FROM CONNECTION BASED ON THE EXEMPTIONS.

HOW'D THAT DO COMMISSIONER LUKI? THANK YOU.

UH, JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, UM, THESE, UH, PROJECTS, THEY'RE BLACKWATER, THEY'RE GRAY WATER, THEY'RE KIND OF DEPENDENT UPON THE, THOSE WHO ARE APPLYING.

ARE THEY TAPPING THESE INTO, UM, THESE, UM, TOWERS? ARE THERE TOWERS INVOLVED IN ANY OF THIS? LIKE THE ONE RIGHT OVER HERE ON 51ST STREET? SO THE POTENTIAL USE IS ON SITE FOR RECLAIMED WATER, WHETHER IT'S ON ONSITE DEVELOPED RAIN, UH, ONSITE DEVELOPED, UM, NON-POTABLE WATER OR CENTRALIZED NON-POTABLE WATER VARIES, BUT IT'S BASICALLY, UM, ANY APPLICATION ON A SITE THAT COULD BE, THAT COULD OFFSET POTABLE WATER WITH THE USE OF NON-POTABLE WATER.

SO COOLING TOWERS, YOU KNOW, IF THEY WERE USING ONSITE COOLING TOWERS, THAT WOULD BE ONE POTENTIAL APPLICATION.

SO YES, TOILET FLUSHING IS ANOTHER BIG ONE FOR US.

I MEAN, THAT'S A, A BIG CONSUMER OF WATER THAT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE POTABLE WATER.

THIS BUILDING, BY THE WAY, FLUSHES ITS COMMODES WITH CENTRALIZED RECLAIMED WATER.

SO THIS IS AN EXAMPLE.

ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION, COMMENT, ACTION COULD BE TAKEN BY THIS COMMISSION.

COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN, I MOVE TO APPROVE THE ITEM.

THERE'S BEEN A MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.

IS THERE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND.

SECOND.

EXCUSE ME.

SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LUKI.

WE'LL GO WITH THE ROLL CALL VOTE ON THIS ONE.

UH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS ABSTAIN.

UH, COMMISSIONER DAVIS? YES.

COMMISSIONER FARMER? YES.

COMMISSIONER LUKI? YES.

UH, COMMISSIONER SDI, BIG THUMBS UP FROM COMMISSIONER SDI.

COMMISSIONER SCHWARTZ? YES.

COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN? YES.

AND STONE VOTES? YES.

THIS PASSES IS 7 0 1.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU FOR CONSIDERATION.

MOVING ON IN OUR AGENDA, UH, THIS IS ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE CASES WHERE I'M GONNA ASK TO HAVE, UH, AUSTIN EGE STAFF BRIEF FIRST BEFORE WE GET INTO THE ITEMS THAT FOLLOW IT.

SO WITHOUT OBJECTION, I'D LIKE TO

[11. Staff briefing on the 2024 International Energy Conservation Code by Heidi Kasper, Energy Efficiency Services Director, Austin Energy.]

PULL UP ITEM NUMBER 11 FROM THE STAFF BRIEFINGS.

UH, THIS IS GONNA BE A DISCUSSION ON THE INTERNATIONAL ENERGY CONSERVATION CODE.

AND WITH THAT, I WILL LET HEIDI CASPER HAVE THE FLOOR.

GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS.

HEIDI CASPER, DIRECTOR OF GREEN BUILDING AND EMERGING TECHNOLOGY.

UH, FOR THOSE THAT VIEW THAT WERE HERE, YOU MAY REMEMBER THAT IN APRIL I PRESENTED TO YOU OUR PROPOSED ENERGY CODE CHANGES JUST AS WE WERE PREPARING TO GO UP FOR PUBLIC COMMENT.

TONIGHT I AM BACK TO PROVIDE AN UPDATE ON THE FEEDBACK WE RECEIVED, A REFRESH OF THE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN HERE, AND THE RESULTS OF OUR ENERGY SAVINGS ANALYSIS AND THE IMPACTS TO AFFORDABILITY.

NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

I'LL START WITH OUTREACH.

UH, IN TERMS OF OUTREACH, THE PRIMARY TOOL WE USED WAS TO GATHER INPUT THROUGH OUR SPEAK UP AUSTIN PAGE.

WE REACHED OUT DIRECTLY VIA EMAIL TO APPROXIMATELY 157 DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS AND 235 INDIVIDUAL INTERESTED STAKEHOLDERS.

THESE STAKEHOLDERS INCLUDED DEVELOPERS, ARCHITECTS, ENGINEERS, HOME BUILDERS, GAS COMPANIES, ENVIRONMENTAL AND ENERGY EFFICIENCY GROUPS, AMONG OTHERS.

WE ALSO ANNOUNCED THE ENGAGEMENT VIA SOCIAL MEDIA AND NEWSLETTERS.

IN TOTAL, WE RECEIVED OVER 1000 VIEWS ON THE PAGE AND 55 COMMENTS.

UM, THE COMMENTS ARE IN YOUR PACKAGE, BUT I WILL GO THROUGH THOSE NEXT, NEXT SLIDE.

OKAY.

SO, UM, HERE WE'VE GOT A BREAKDOWN OF THE TOPICS COMMENTED ON.

THE MAJORITY OF COMMENTS WERE IN SUPPORT OF ADOPTING THE NEW CODE, INCLUDING THE PROPOSED APPENDICES.

UM, WE DID HAVE SOME COMMENTERS EXPRESS CONCERNS OVER IMPACTS TO AFFORDABILITY.

WE HAD COMMENTS THAT ADVOCATED FOR INCREASING THE REQUIREMENTS FOR IN EV INFRASTRUCTURE AND THE ADDITION OF A DC FAST CHARGER COMPLIANCE PATH.

UM, BASED ON THAT FEEDBACK, WE DO INTEND TO DEVELOP A DC FAST CHARGING COMPLIANCE PATH.

WE DID NOT, UH, INCREASE THE EV INFRASTRUCTURE REQUIREMENTS.

WE HAD MANY, UM, STAKEHOLDERS LIKE TESLA SUGGESTING THAT WE REQUIRE CHARGING STATIONS FROM DAY ONE.

UM,

[02:05:01]

WE DID NOT FEEL LIKE THE MARKET IS READY FOR THAT.

WE FEEL LIKE THAT EQUIPMENT IS EVOLVING AND IT WOULD BE BETTER TO GET THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN AS OPPOSED TO THE ACTUAL CHARGING STATIONS.

UM, I'LL COVER THE AFFORDABILITY IMPACT ANALYSIS LATER IN THE PRESENTATION.

ANOTHER AREA OF COMMENT WAS ON WATER HEATING.

WE HAD, WE HAVE A PROPOSAL IN THE CODE FOR A SPACE REQUIREMENT ALONG WITH A WATER HEATER.

THIS IS TO PRIMARILY TO ALLOW FOR FUTURE INSTALLATION OF HEAT PUMP WATER HEATERS WHERE THEY'RE NOT BEING INSTALLED NOW.

UM, THEY'RE OF A DIFFERENT SIZE.

UH, AND SO WHAT STAKEHOLDERS ARE TELLING US, CUSTOMERS ARE TELLING US THAT WHEN THEY GO TO RETROFIT A HEAT UP WATER HEATER, A LOT OF TIMES THEY DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT SPACE, UM, TO DO SO.

SO THERE'S A SPACE REQUIREMENT THAT WAS ADDED TO THE CODE.

WE ORIGINALLY HAD AN EXCEPTION TO THAT SPACE REQUIREMENT FOR EXTERIOR INSTANTANEOUS GAS WATER HEATERS.

UM, THIS WAS PRIMARILY BASED ON HOW TO INTERPRET WHAT THE SPACE REQUIREMENT WAS BASED ON THE FEEDBACK WE GOT, WHICH WAS ON BOTH SIDES.

UM, WE HAVE DECIDED TO REMOVE THE EXCEPTION FOR ELECTRIC RESISTANCE WATER HEATING.

OH, I MEAN, SORRY FOR THE GAS, INSTANTANEOUS GAS WATER HEATERS.

WE ALSO HAD A COMMENT FROM COMMISSIONER ROBBINS ON ELECTRIC RESISTANCE WATER HEATING FOR PRIMARY USE AND REMOVING THAT AS AN OPTION WE DID USE TO HAVE SUCH A PROVISION IN THE CODE.

UM, BACK IN, I ACTUALLY HAD TO CORRECT MYSELF.

IT WAS BACK IN 2013 THAT WE RECEIVED A CHALLENGE TO THAT FROM A HRI, THE AMERICAN HEATING AND REFRIGERATION INSTITUTE.

UM, AFTER LEGAL ANALYSIS BACK THEN, WE REMOVED THAT PROVISION FROM THE CODE.

WE'VE LOOKED AT IT AGAIN, UM, AND IT'S STILL OUR OPINION AND THAT OF OUR LEGAL DEPARTMENT THAT SUCH A PROVISION WOULD VIOLATE FEDERAL PREEMPTION RULES.

THIS INCLUDES, UM, CASE LAW WHERE, UH, THEY TRIED TO INCLUDE IT JUST IN THE PRESCRIPTIVE REQUIREMENT AND MADE AN ARGUMENT THAT BECAUSE YOU HAD A, UM, A, UH, PERFORMANCE ROUTE IN THE CODE, THAT THERE WAS A VIABLE PATH TO USE THAT EQUIPMENT THAT WAS STRUCK DOWN BY, UH, LEGAL PRECEDENT.

CALIFORNIA DOES HAVE THAT IN THEIR CODE.

UM, THEIR CODE IS NOT BASED ON THE MODEL CODE, SO IT IS STRUCTURED DIFFERENTLY.

I DON'T KNOW IF THEIRS WILL PASS, BUT I DO KNOW THAT IT IS BEING CHALLENGED CURRENTLY.

SO IT STILL NEEDS TO WORK ITS WAY THROUGH THE, UM, LEGAL SYSTEM.

SO IT'S STILL OUR RECOMMENDATION THAT WE NOT INCLUDE THIS.

THE DOE IS MOVING FORWARD TO MAKING THIS A REQUIREMENT PROBABLY BY AROUND 2030, UM, AS IT IS, UM, FULL LIST OF THE PUBLIC COMMENTS IS AVAILABLE.

NEXT SLIDE.

UM, SO AS A REMINDER, WE WENT OVER THESE LAST TIME, BUT SIGNIFICANT CHANGES TO THE RESIDENTIAL CODE INCLUDE CONVERSION OF THE CURRENT ADDITIONAL ENERGY EFFICIENCY REQUIREMENT INTO A POINT SYSTEM WITH ENVELOPE MECHANICAL DEMAND RESPONSE, AND ONSITE SOLAR OPTIONS.

UM, THIS IS WHERE WE ACTUALLY DO ENCOURAGE, UH, SOLAR OR HEAT PUMP WATER HEATERS IS IN THAT POINT.

SYSTEM DEMAND RESPONSE CONTROLS MUST BE INCLUDED ON ELECTRIC WATER HEATERS, THOUGH TIMERS REMAIN AN OPTION.

BATHROOMS WITH INTERMITTENT EXHAUST FANS MUST INCLUDE CONTROLS TO HELP REMOVE EXCESS MOISTURE.

THESE CAN INCLUDE TIMERS, OCCUPANCY SENSORS, HUMIDITY CONTROL OR CONTAMINANT CONTROL.

UH, THE AIR LEAKAGE REDUCTION, WHICH IS THE TIGHTNESS OF YOUR BUILDING ENVELOPE, IS BEING REDUCED FROM FIVE AIR CHANGERS, UM, TO FOUR.

AND THERE IS A DECREASE IN THE PRESCRIPTIVE ATTIC INSTALLATION REQUIREMENT FROM R 49 TO R 38.

THAT'S A LITTLE COUNTERINTUITIVE.

I WILL SAY THAT THAT WAS WORKED OUT AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL, UM, AS A, UM, TRADE OFF FOR COST.

WHERE WERE WE GONNA GET THE BEST COST OF EFFICACY FOR THE EFFICIENCY REQUIREMENTS? SO THAT WAS PART OF A PACKAGE, UH, WORKED OUT AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL, UM, THAT LOOKED AT COST OF EFFICACY, AND WE DON'T THINK WE'RE GIVING UP A LOT OF ENERGY EFFICIENCY IN DOING SO.

UM, THERE'S NEW ELECTRIC READY AND EV READY REQUIREMENTS, BUT I'LL GO INTO THOSE IN MORE DETAIL ON A LATER SLIDE SINCE THAT WAS WHERE WE GOT THE BULK OF COMMENTS.

UH, NEXT SLIDE.

ON THE COMMERCIAL SIDE, SIGNIFICANT CHANGES INCLUDED A REQUIREMENT FOR RENEWABLE ENERGY SYSTEMS. THE SIZING IS 0.75 WATTS PER SQUARE FOOT FOR THE THREE LARGEST FLOORS AND APPLIES TO BUILDINGS OVER 10,000 SQUARE FEET.

THERE'S AN ENERGY STORAGE SYSTEM READINESS REQUIREMENT ALSO BASED ON THE SIZE AND SQUARE FOOTAGE OF YOUR THREE LARGEST FLOORS.

AND IT'S INTENDED TO PAIR WITH THE RENEWABLE ENERGY SYSTEM.

[02:10:01]

IT DOESN'T REQUIRE THE STORAGE SYSTEM, IT JUST REQUIRES THE SPACE FOR IT, UM, THAT YOU'RE PLANNING AHEAD.

UH, THE AIR LEAKAGE, AGAIN, WAS REDUCED.

UM, AND TESTING IS GONNA BE REQUIRED FOR GROUP R AND IR BEING RESIDENTIAL, I BEING INDUSTRIAL.

UM, UPDATES TO THE HVAC EFFICIENCY TABLES TO ALIGN WITH FEDERAL STANDARDS.

TOTAL SYSTEM PERFORMANCE RATIO ALLOWS FOR MORE TRADE-OFFS WITHIN THE HVAC SYSTEM DESIGN.

SO YOU HAVE A LOT OF DIFFERENT HVAC SYSTEMS WITHIN A COMMERCIAL BUILDING.

THIS ALLOWS YOU TO HAVE DIFFERENT EFFICIENCIES AS LONG AS YOU MEET AN OVERALL PERFORMANCE STANDARD.

UM, UPDATES TO THE ADDITIONAL ENERGY EFFICIENCY SECTION, THAT'S THE SORT OF MENU OF POINTS, UM, TO PROVIDE MORE OPTIONS.

AND AGAIN, ADOPTION OF ELECTRIC READY, EV READY AND DEMAND RESPONSE APPENDICES.

NEXT SLIDE.

OKAY.

SO AGAIN, SINCE ELECTRIC VEHICLE READINESS AND ELECTRIC READINESS RECEIVE THE MOST COMMENTS, I'VE BROKEN THOSE OUT.

THE ELECTRIC VEHICLE READINESS REQUIREMENTS UNDER THE COMMERCIAL CODE VARY BY BUILDING USE AND INCLUDE PRIMARILY EV CAPABLE SPACES.

UH, THE HIGHEST REQUIREMENTS ARE FROM MULTIFAMILY, WHERE WE'RE PROPOSING 35% OF PARKING SPACES BE EV CAPABLE AND AN ADDITIONAL 5% BE EV READY.

AND I'VE GOT THE DEFINITIONS DOWN THERE, BUT EV CAPABLE IS ESSENTIALLY YOUR CAPACITY AND YOUR CONDUIT.

EV READY ADDS THE WIRING IN THE OUTLET, UM, FOR, UH, IF YOU DO INSTALL A CHARGING EQUIPMENT, THAT WOULD COUNT TOWARD THIS REQUIREMENT.

SO IF YOU INSTALLED SOME AMOUNT OF CHARGING EQUIPMENT, THAT STILL COUNTS, UM, AND YOU'RE NOT HAVING TO INSTALL AN ADDITIONAL 40% EXTRA.

UM, ON THE, UH, RESIDENTIAL SIDE, WE'RE LOOKING AT ONE EV CAPABLE EV READY OR, UM, UH, CHARGING STATION PER DWELLING UNIT.

SO YOU TAKE YOUR PICK, WE EXPECT MOST PEOPLE TO DO CAPABLE FOR MULTIFAMILY.

THAT FALLS UNDER THE RESIDENTIAL CODE, WHICH IS FOUR STORIES.

AND UNDER IN AUSTIN IT WOULD BE 40%.

UM, OF THE DWELLING UNITS OR 40% OF YOUR CAR PARKING SPACES, WHICHEVER IS LESS WOULD BE, WOULD NEED TO BE EV CAPABLE.

NEXT SLIDE.

ALL RIGHT, THE ELECTRIC READINESS REQUIREMENTS.

UM, THESE REQUIRE THAT NEW BUILDINGS THAT ARE USING COMBUSTION EQUIPMENT PROVIDE FOR ELECTRIC INFRASTRUCTURE SUCH THAT THE FUTURE OCCUPANTS OF THOSE BUILDINGS CAN CHOOSE TO FUEL SOURCE AND EQUIPMENT THAT BEST MEETS THEIR NEEDS.

SO, UM, AS WE'VE HEARD, WE'VE HAD HEARD MANY CUSTOMERS TELL US THAT THEY'VE HAD TROUBLE CONVERTING, UM, FOR WHATEVER REASON THAT THEY WANNA CONVERT, BE IT ENVIRONMENTAL, BE IT HEALTH, BE IT, UM, COST AND CHANGES IN RATES.

IF THAT INFRASTRUCTURE DOESN'T EXIST, YOUR HOT WATER HEATER GOES OUT AND YOU NEED TO REPLACE IT.

IF YOU ALSO NEED TO HIRE AN ELECTRICIAN TO RUN CONDUIT AND PERHAPS UPGRADE THE SIZE OF YOUR, UM, PANEL, THAT BECOMES A MUCH LARGER AND MORE EXPENSIVE PROJECT.

THE IDEA HERE IS THAT BY MAKING THE EV READINESS, THE ELECTRIC INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED WOULD ALREADY BE THERE.

UM, SO AGAIN, IT'S ABOUT, UH, ALLOWING FUTURE OWNERS TO CHOOSE WHAT EQUIPMENT NEEDS THEIR NEEDS BEST.

THESE REQUIREMENTS DO ADD COST TO THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE BUILDING.

UM, WE'VE TRIED TO MAKE SURE THAT THESE REQUIREMENTS ARE TARGETED TO THOSE THINGS THAT ARE MUCH CHEAPER AND COST EFFECTIVE TO DO UPFRONT WHEN THE BUILDING IS BEING BUILT AND WHERE THERE'S COST SAVINGS AS OPPOSED TO WHAT THEY WOULD COST TO RETROFIT.

NEXT SLIDE.

OUR ENERGY MODELING STAFF HAVE PERFORMED AN ANALYSIS OF THE PROPOSED CODE OVER OUR CURRENT 2021 CITY OF AUSTIN ENERGY CODE FOR RESIDENTIAL CODE.

WE ANTICIPATE THAT THIS CODE WOULD PROVIDE APPROXIMATELY 6.1 MEGAWATT HOURS OF SAVINGS FOR RESIDENTIAL CODE BUILDINGS AND 13.4% FOR COMMERCIAL AVERAGED ACROSS THE VARIOUS BUILDING TYPES.

THE 13.4 FOR COMMERCIAL BUILDING TYPES INCLUDES SAVINGS FROM REQUIRED EN RENEWABLE ENERGY SYSTEMS ON MY CHART.

THOSE ARE BROKEN OUT, UM, IN THE LIGHT GREEN.

SO THE DARK GREEN IS YOUR ENERGY EFFICIENCY, PURELY THE LIGHT GREEN IS THE ADDITIONAL SAVINGS FROM, UH, RENEWABLE ENERGY.

SINGLE FAMILY HOMES ARE BETWEEN FOUR AND FOUR POINT A HALF PERCENT SAVINGS AND LOW RISE MULTIFAMILY IS 6.7%.

NEXT SLIDE.

WE ALSO LOOKED AT AFFORDABILITY IMPACT.

TO DO SO, WE RESEARCHED LOCAL MATERIAL COSTS.

WE REACHED OUT TO VARIOUS BUILDERS FOR COST ESTIMATES FOR SINGLE FAMILY HOMES.

WE EXPECT THE SAVINGS FROM REDUCED ATTIC INSTALLATION TO MORE THAN OFFSET ADDED

[02:15:01]

COSTS FROM THE EV CAPABLE ELECTRIC READY AND OTHER NEW EFFICIENCY MEASURES.

THE ELECTRIC READINESS COSTS ONLY APPLY TO HOMES THAT ARE NOT ALREADY ALL ELECTRIC, SO THERE IS SOME VARIABILITY.

UM, ON AN ANNUAL BASIS, WE EXPECT THE EFFICIENCY GAINS TO RESULT IN ABOUT 25 TO $50 OF ANNUAL UTILITY COST SAVINGS.

FOR AVERAGE HOMES FOR LOW RIDE'S MULTIFAMILY, WE'RE ANTICIPATING AN INCREASED COST PER UNIT IN THE RANGE OF 375 TO $475, DEPENDING AGAIN ON WHETHER THE BUILDING IS ALREADY ALL ELECTRIC OR NOT.

UM, THE SAVINGS FOR MULTIFAMILY ARE SLIGHTLY HIGHER AND WE ANTICIPATE ANNUAL BILL SAVINGS PER UNIT OF ABOUT $75.

BUT THE, YOU HAVE LESS ROOF FOR MULTIFAMILY BUILDINGS, SO THE ATTIC INSTALLATION, UM, IS NOT OFFSETTING AS MUCH OF THE COST.

NEXT SLIDE.

I'M GONNA OH, STOP YOU REAL QUICK.

YEAH.

JUST BECAUSE I KNOW PAUL AND ALICE ARE GONNA HAVE AWESOME QUESTIONS LATER.

AND I HAVE A DUMB ONE RIGHT NOW.

OKAY.

HOW DO WE SAVE MONEY ON ATTIC INSULATION? SO WE, WHERE DOES THAT SAVINGS COME FROM? UM, SO WE'VE REDUCED THEIR REQUIREMENT FROM WHAT IT WAS IN THE PREVIOUS CODE.

IT WAS R 49 AND WE'VE REDUCED IT BACK TO R 38, WHICH IS WHAT WAS IN THE PREVIOUS CODE.

SO LESS THANK LESS MATERIAL.

THANK YOU, .

NEXT SLIDE.

OKAY.

SO ON THE COMMERCIAL SIDE, UH, COST IMPACTS ARE SIGNIFICANTLY MORE DIFFICULT TO ESTIMATE GIVEN JUST THE WIDE DIVERSITY OF BUILDING TYPES.

WHAT WE DID IS LOOKED AT A PROTOTYPICAL 10 STORY HIGH-RISE APARTMENT BUILDING.

AND THE RENEWABLE ENERGY REQUIREMENT WAS ESTIMATED AT AROUND $490 A UNIT EV CAPABLE AT AROUND $360 A UNIT AND ELECTRIC READINESS REQUIREMENTS FOR THE BUILDINGS NOT ALREADY USING ELECTRIC POWER AROUND $500 PER UNIT.

WE DID ADD AN EXEMPTION TO THE ELECTRIC READINESS REQUIREMENT FOR CENTRALIZED HOT WATER SYSTEMS, AS THAT DID NOT APPEAR, UM, BY OUR ANALYSIS TO BE COST EFFECTIVE.

UM, I TOLD WE'RE COMING UP WITH AN APPROXIMATE FIRST COST INCREASE OF AROUND 1,250 TO $1,750 PER DWELLING UNIT, DEPENDING ON WHETHER THE BUILDING IS ALREADY USING ELECTRIC APPLIANCES.

THE ANNUAL ENERGY COST SAVINGS WERE ESTIMATED AT APPROXIMATELY $160 PER UNIT.

THIS ROAD RESULTS IN APPROXIMATELY AN EIGHT TO 10 YEAR SIMPLE PAYBACK.

AND THEN I WILL JUST REITERATE, AND YOU HEARD IT, UM, FROM MY FRIENDS AT, UH, TEXAS GAS, ELECTRIC READINESS AND EV READINESS DON'T HAVE COST SAVINGS THAT WE CAN, UM, INCORPORATE INTO A PAYBACK.

THERE'S NOT AN EFFICIENCY THAT WE'RE GAINING, SO YOU'RE NOT SEEING A BILL SAVINGS.

WHERE WE ARE ANTICIPATING SAVINGS IS IF THOSE OWNERS WANT TO CHANGE THEIR EQUIPMENT OUT LATER.

IT'S SIGNIFICANTLY CHEAPER TO HAVE THAT INFRASTRUCTURE BUILT IN WHILE YOU'RE BUILDING THE BUILDING THAN IT IS TO TRY AND DO IT LATER.

AND MOST OF THE TIMES, EVEN IN MULTI-FAMILY, THE OWNER OF THE BUILDING IS USUALLY NOT THE SAME PERSON THAT BUILT IT.

SO, UM, IN SINGLE FAMILY, MOST HOMES ARE BUILT BY BUILDERS AND THEN SOLD TO A HOMEOWNER WHO DIDN'T HAVE AN CHOICE OR IMPACT ON THE DECISIONS MADE UPFRONT.

THEY HAVE SOME CHOICE OF LOOKING FOR THAT HOME IN THE MARKET, BUT THAT CAN BE DIFFICULT.

MULTI-FAMILY, WE SEE A LOT OF THE SAME THING.

WE HAVE A DEVELOPER THAT BUILDS IT, THEY LEASE IT, AND THEN THEY SELL IT.

UM, SO THIS IS TO ALLOW THOSE FUTURE OWNERS THAT CHOICE.

WITH THAT, I CAN TAKE QUESTIONS.

ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION? VICE CHAIR ROBBINS, WHO CAN BE FINED BY THE STATE FOR NOT WEARING A SEATBELT IN HIS OWN CAR? WELL, YOU VOTED FOR THE RESOLUTION, SO DON'T CONDESCEND TO ME.

UM, MS. CASPER, UM, ON THE LOAD MANAGEMENT, UH, REQUIREMENT FOR ELECTRIC WATER HEATERS.

MM-HMM.

, UM, I DON'T BELIEVE THE CITY CURRENTLY HAS A PROGRAM FOR LOAD MANAGEMENT OF ELECTRIC WATER HEATERS.

UH, IT CERTAINLY WAS NOT ON YOUR WEBSITE.

UH, SO, UH, YOU WOULD HAVE TO CREATE ONE TO ACCOMMODATE THE NEW CODE, CORRECT? CORRECT.

UH, SARAH'S HERE TOO.

SHE MIGHT ADDRESS THIS BETTER.

WE HAVE ONE IN DEVELOPMENT AND THE TIMERS, UM, HAVE BEEN OUR STRATEGY TO DOING THIS UP UNTIL THIS POINT.

BUT I'LL LET SARAH TALK ABOUT WHAT WE DO HAVE IN THE WORKS.

AND, AND, UH, WELL, LET ME ASK THIS QUESTION OF BOTH OF YOU AND SARAH OR, UH, MS. CASPER.

COULD, UH, MS. NORRIS OR MS. CASPER COULD ANSWER IT, BUT IF

[02:20:01]

YOU'VE GOT, UH, A REQUIREMENT FOR LOAD MANAGEMENT, UH, IS, DOES THAT CARRY OVER WHEN THE OLD WATER HEATER IS REPLACED? I MEAN, NEW TODAY, 11 YEARS FROM NOW, IT'S LIKELY TO BE REPLACED.

AND DO, DO YOU, DOES THE PLUMBER HAVE TO REATTACH THE LOAD MANAGEMENT? SO GENERALLY NOT ON THE EQUIPMENT.

THE DEMAND RESPONSE CONTROLS FOR THE WATER HEATER WOULD GENERALLY BE BUILT INTO THE WATER HEATER.

THE TIMER IS A SEPARATE PIECE OF EQUIPMENT.

I WAS JUST GONNA SHARE THAT.

WE HAVE A LEGACY PROGRAM FOR WATER HEATER TIMERS, UM, THAT ACTUALLY HAS BEEN IN PLACE FOR, FOR MANY YEARS, UM, SINCE 2006.

AND, UM, I THINK THERE WERE ABOUT 21,000 TIMERS INSTALLED OVER THAT PERIOD OF TIME.

UM, AND THEN WE HAVE A CURRENT PILOT PROGRAM IN MULTIFAMILY, UM, PROPERTIES TO DO A COMBINATION OF WIFI ENABLED DEMAND RESPONSE WATER HEATING AND, UM, SMART THERMOSTATS.

SO ONCE WE COMPLETE KIND OF THE PILOT CYCLE WITH THAT PROGRAM, THAT WILL BE SOMETHING THAT WE CONTINUE TO SCALE.

OKAY.

UM, THIS IS A, I'M GOING TO COMMENT, UH, YOU CAN CALL IT A QUESTION, BUT I, YOU SAID SEVERAL THINGS EARLIER.

UH, EVERYONE, UH, IN THIS COMMISSION, AND MOST PEOPLE IN THE ROOM KNOW THAT I'VE BEEN CRITICIZING THE BILLING CODE FOR A LONG TIME BECAUSE IT DOES NOT DEAL WITH RESISTANCE, WATER HEATING.

AND I'VE GOT A RESOLUTION, ANOTHER ITEM ON THE AGENDA TO DEAL WITH THAT.

BUT I WILL ADDRESS YOUR COMMENTS.

YOU SAID CALIFORNIA, UH, IS IN COURT OVER THIS NOW? WELL, I CALLED THE PERSON IN CHARGE OF ADMINISTERING THIS CODE AT THE CALIFORNIA ENERGY COMMISSION LAST WEEK, AND I CAN'T COMMENT ON THE LEGAL STATUS, BUT I CAN TELL YOU AS OF A WEEK AGO, THEY WERE AGGRESSIVELY ENFORCING AND ADVOCATING FOR THIS CODE.

SO, UM, WELL, I I, I DON'T KNOW THAT YOUR ARGUMENT DETERS ME FROM ADVOCATING THIS RESOLUTION.

ANOTHER THING THAT YOU SAID IS THAT IN 2030, THERE IS A PROPOSED CODE CHANGE.

WELL, BETWEEN NOW AND 2030, UH, THAT WOULD MEAN THAT, FORGIVE ME, I'M JUST TRYING TO BE STATISTICALLY ACCURATE.

THIS WOULD BE ANOTHER ROUGHLY 41,000, UH, RESIDENTIAL STRIP WATER HEATERS CAUSING AN EXCESS OF ABOUT $10 MILLION A YEAR, UH, IN COST.

AND YOU'RE ASSUMING THAT THIS CODE IS ACTUALLY GOING TO HAPPEN IF CERTAIN PEOPLE ARE ELECTED? IT MAY NOT HAPPEN.

SO I, I MEAN, I HOPE IT DOES, BUT I CAN'T COUNT ON IT.

COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.

SO PAUL'S SAYING DON'T BE SHY, DON'T HOLD BACK.

UM, I THINK THAT'S A POLICY DECISION.

OUR, OUR, OUR STAFF OPINION IS THAT THIS WILL LIKELY BE CHALLENGED, UM, AND GO TO COURT.

SO, UM, OUR RECOMMENDATION IS THAT WITH THE DOE MOVING FORWARD ON IT, THAT WE DON'T RECOMMEND THAT, BUT THAT'S A POLICY DECISION.

MS. CASPER, WHEN I STARTED IN THIS LONG JOURNEY, UH, THE BETTER PART OF 50 YEARS AGO, UM, THE STAFF AT THE AUSTIN ELECTRIC DEPARTMENT, IT WASN'T CALLED AUSTIN ENERGY BACK IN THE DAY OR AGAINST EVERYTHING PRETTY MUCH THAT YOU'RE DOING HERE NOW.

SO I'M NOT DETERRED COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.

UM, I, I THINK THIS IS PRETTY GREAT AND I THANK YOU FOR THE EXTRAORDINARY AMOUNT OF WORK AND PATIENTS THAT WENT INTO THIS EFFORT

[02:25:01]

AND, AND I AM PREPARED TO SUPPORT IT.

LIKE MY COLLEAGUE, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS, I WOULD SURE LIKE TO SEE, UM, HEAT PUMP WATER HEATERS INCLUDED.

BUT IF THAT IS A LEGAL BRIDGE TOO FAR, THEN I WILL STRONGLY ENCOURAGE YOU AND MS. NORRIS AND YOUR COLLEAGUES TO GO JUST HARDCORE ON INCENTIVE PROGRAMS THAT, THAT TRY TO GET HEAT PUMP WATER HEATERS IN PLACE.

ALONG WITH, UM, HEAT PUMP FOR HVAC, BECAUSE WE HAVE GOT TO, AND I KNOW THAT, THAT OUR FRIENDS FROM TEXAS GAS SERVICER STANDING BEHIND YOU CRINGING AS I SAY THIS.

BUT, UM, FOR THE SAKE OF MANAGING, PARTICULARLY FOR, FOR LOW INCOME AUSTIN RESIDENTS, WE REALLY NEED TO GET THAT STUFF GOING IN A BIG WAY.

AND THAT INCLUDES THE EXTRAORDINARY BURDEN OF EDUCATING CONTRACTORS TO BE WILLING AND ABLE TO INSTALL THEM EFFECTIVELY.

BUT THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

VICE CHAIR ROBBINS.

I DO INTEND TO, UH, VOTE FOR THIS CODE, BUT I, I'M SORRY, A LEGAL CHALLENGE THAT MIGHT HAPPEN THAT MIGHT LOSE, DOES NOT DETER ME.

UM, AND I WOULD ASK THE COMMISSION TO TAKE BOTH OF THESE ISSUES UP AT ONCE.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION? YOU TWO HAVE BEEN A TROOPER.

HAVE A SEAT.

MOVING ON IN OUR AGENDA.

[Items 8 & 9]

ITEM NUMBER EIGHT, RECOMMENDING APPROVAL TO CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE REPEALING REPLACING ARTICLE 12 OF CITY CODE CHAPTER 25 12.

AND, AND NUMBER NINE, DISCUSSION.

HUH? I CAN ONLY TAKE UP ONE VOTE AT A TIME.

YOU MAY DISCUSS THE TWO OF THESE AT YOUR WILL, BUT I CAN ONLY TAKE VOTES ON ONE AT A TIME.

, I, UM, I THINK YOU CAN READ BOTH OF THEM AT ONCE, BUT, OKAY.

DO I HAVE PERMISSION TO SPEAK? YOU MAY, SIR.

OKAY.

UM, I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE BOTH OF THESE ITEMS UP AT ONCE.

A SECOND ITEM IS DISCUSSION AND RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF AMENDING THE PROPOSED ENERGY BUILDING CODE, UH, TO REQUIRE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS FOR ENERGY EFFICIENT WATER HEATING.

UH, I DO SUPPORT ITEM EIGHT, THE CURRENT CODE, AND IN FACT, UH, DEFENDANT PART OF IT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING TONIGHT.

UH, I, REGARDING WATER HEATING, UM, I DON'T WANT TO CARRY ON ABOUT THIS ALL NIGHT, UM, BUT I DO WANT TO URGE YOU TO CONSIDER THIS RESOLUTION.

UM, AS I SAID A WEEK AGO WHEN I CALLED THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, UH, IT WAS MY IMPRESSION THAT THEY WERE AGGRESSIVELY ENFORCING THIS.

UM, THERE MAY OR MAY NOT BE A, A PENDING LEGAL ACTION, BUT PAST A POINT, UH, SHOULD WE LIVE EVERY MOMENT OF OUR LIVES OR WORRYING ABOUT SOME LEGAL ACTION THAT MAY OR MAY NOT OCCUR AND THAT MAY OR NOT WIN.

UM, REGARDING WHAT, UH, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN SAID EARLIER ABOUT, UH, FOCUSING ON REBATES.

UH, WHEN I LOOKED AT REBATES FOR HEAT PUMP WATER HEATERS A COUPLE YEARS AGO, I BELIEVE IN A SINGLE YEAR, THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN A COUPLE DOZEN, AND THEY WERE ALL FOR EXISTING CUSTOMERS.

THERE HAVE BEEN ABOUT 68,000, UH, ALL ELECTRIC WATER HEATERS INSTALLED IN RESIDENCES.

THERE HAVE BEEN ABOUT 68,000 ALL ELECTRIC WATER HEATERS INSTALLED IN THE AUSTIN ENERGY SERVICE TERRITORY IN THE LAST 10 YEARS.

UH, AMOUNTING TO ABOUT $14 MILLION OR SO IN INCREASED COST.

UH, AND TO CONTINUE THIS KIND OF THING IS UNACCEPTABLE.

THERE IS NO

[02:30:01]

REBATE PROGRAM FOR NEW HOMES, AND OTHER THAN THE PILOT PROGRAM THAT MS. NORRIS MENTIONED, UH, AND THE, UH, LEGACY PROGRAMS THERE, THERE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE, UH, A RETROFIT PROGRAM FOR, UH, GETTING NEW LOAD MANAGEMENT CUSTOMERS FOR EXISTING, UH, ALL ELECTRIC WATER HEATERS.

MAY I CLARIFY ONE THING? UH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS, UM, WE DO HAVE A PILOT PROGRAM.

IT IS NOT ON OUR WEBSITE.

I THINK WE SENT YOU SOME INFORMATION ABOUT IT EARLIER TODAY.

BUT I DID WANT TO NOTE THAT WE DO HAVE A PILOT PROGRAM THAT WE ARE WORKING ON RIGHT NOW WITH HABITAT FOR HUMANITY, WHERE WE ARE INSTALLING HEAT PUMP WATER HEATERS IN NEW CONSTRUCTION.

THAT HAS JUST BEEN KICKED OFF THIS YEAR, AND, AND IT HAS NOT BEEN SCALED.

SO I ACKNOWLEDGE THAT IT IS NOT AN OPEN PROGRAM, BUT I DO JUST WANNA SHARE WITH YOU THAT WE ARE AWARE OF THE GAP AND WE ARE WORKING TO CLOSE IT.

AND, AND I'M GRATEFUL, AND I DID IN FACT, ACKNOWLEDGE THIS WHEN I STARTED TO SPEAK.

SO I, I'M, I'M NOT TAKING AWAY FROM IT.

UM, GIVEN ALL THIS, UM, I, UH, WOULD LIKE TO READ INTO THE RECORD, UH, THEN BE IT RESOLVED.

THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION RECOMMEND THAT THE CITY COUNCIL DELAY ENACTMENT OF THE NEW RESIDENTIAL ENERGY BUILDING CODE TO INSERT LANGUAGE THAT REQUIRES THE USE OF HEAT PUMP WATER HEATERS AND SOLAR WATER HEATERS AS ALTERNATIVES TO ELECTRIC RESISTANCE WATER HEATERS IN ALL ELECTRIC BUILDINGS, NOT ALSO SERVED BY GAS UTILITIES TO THE EXTENT LEGALLY ALLOWED, AND BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED THAT AUSTIN ENERGY QUICKLY PREPARE ENHANCED REBATE AND LOAD MANAGEMENT PROGRAMS THAT WILL REDUCE ALL ELECTRIC WATER HEATER LOADS, AND THAT THESE PROGRAMS BEGIN IN THE NEXT FISCAL YEAR, WHICH WAS WHAT? OCTOBER 1ST AND I MOVE ADOPTION.

YOU'RE MOVING ADOPTION ON WHICH ITEM NINE.

ITEM NINE.

OKAY.

DO I HAVE A SECOND ON ADOPTING ITEM NINE? I'LL SECOND.

SECOND.

AND BY LUKEY, UH, COMMISSIONER DAVIS.

SO, JUST A POINT OF CLARIFICATION.

SO THIS, UH, RECOMMENDATION, UH, RECOMMENDS COUNCIL DELAY ENACTMENT OF THE BUILDING CODE.

ITEM EIGHT IS WHAT WE'RE VOTING ON FOR THE BUILDING CODE, RIGHT? RIGHT.

SO BY APPROVING ITEM NINE, THAT KIND OF PRECLUDES APPROVING ITEM EIGHT.

DOES IT NOT? IT, IT JUST, THIS IS JUST AN ADDER SAYS, YEAH, WE, WE CAN'T APPROVE ITEM EIGHT.

WE JUST ASK THAT IT BE DELAYED UNTIL THIS IS INSERTED AND I, AGAIN, I I SUPPORT ITEM EIGHT.

OKAY.

I DO HAVE, UH, A MOTION FROM THE VICE CHAIR AND A SECOND BY LUKEY.

SO WE'LL DO A ROLL CALL VOTE ON ITEM NINE.

UH, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE AT HOME, PLEASE TURN ON YOUR CAMERAS AND WE'LL GET TO YOUR NAME SHORTLY.

UH, ROBINS.

YES.

DAVIS ABSTAIN FARMER? YES.

UH, LUKI? YES.

S CITI SCHWARTZ? YES.

SILVERSTEIN? YES.

UH, I, OH, YEAH.

SORRY, MY, MY TECHNOLOGY'S ALL OVER TONIGHT.

UH, IF WE CAN'T SEE, AND THEN YOU'RE CONSIDERED OFF THE DATA, SO YOU ABLE TO GET YOUR CAMERA TO WORK? YEAH.

LET ME TRY.

I THINK IT'S THE TYPE OF CAMERA THAT I'M, KEEP GOING IN BETWEEN.

LET ME TRY THIS.

[02:35:06]

OKAY.

CAN YOU SEE ME? YES.

YES.

OKAY.

AND NOW YOU CAN HEAR ME TOO.

WOW.

BY THE END OF THE MEETING HERE WE ARE , UH, BETTER THAN THE LAST MEETING.

IT'S, WE'RE ON YOU FOR ROLL CALL.

WAS THAT A YES OUTTA YOU OR A NO OR AN ABSTAIN? THAT'S A YES.

OKAY.

UH, THE CHAIR WILL ABSTAIN.

THIS PASSES 6 0 2.

UH, ROLLING BACK TO ITEM NUMBER EIGHT FOR ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION.

COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN, I'M HAPPY TO MOVE THE, THE ADOPTION.

I APPROVE I SECOND MOTION TO APPROVE BY COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN, AND SECOND IT BY THE VICE CHAIR.

WE'LL DO A ROLL CALL VOTE.

PLEASE KEEP YOUR CAMERAS ON.

FOR THOSE OF WHO ARE REMOTE, UH, THE VICE CHAIR ROBBINS? YES.

COMMISSIONER DAVIS.

YES.

COMMISSIONER FARMER? YES.

COMMISSIONER LUKI? YES.

COMMISSIONER SCAFF S COMMISSIONER SCHWARTZ? YES.

COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN? YES.

AND THE CHAIR ALSO VOTES? YES.

THIS PASSES 8 0 0.

MOVING ON IN OUR AGENDA,

[12. Presentation by Texas Gas Service regarding a quarterly update of the Central Texas Energy Efficiency Program by Christy Bell, Energy Efficiency Program Supervisor.]

WE ARE ON ITEM NUMBER 12, PRESENTATION BY TEXAS GAS QUARTERLY UPDATE.

WAS THIS HELD OVER FROM LAST MONTH? I THINK IT WAS, YES.

OKAY.

YES.

WE DIDN'T GET TO, OKAY.

WE HAD SOUND SYSTEM PROBLEMS, AS YOU'LL RECALL.

I TELL YOU, I'M NOT HERE AND THINGS JUST FALL APART.

I'M HERE AND PEOPLE TRY KILLING PAUL.

IT'S AMAZING.

, YEAH.

FAR AWAY FROM MY LITTLE CHAIR HERE.

UH, GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS.

CAN YOU HEAR ME OKAY, OR DO I NEED TO, TO MICROPHONE UP A LITTLE BIT HIGHER? THAT'LL HELP.

OKAY.

IT'S A LITTLE WONKY.

OKAY.

I'LL TRY.

UM, GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME, UH, THIS EVENING.

UH, MY NAME IS CHRISTIE BELL.

I'M THE SUPERVISOR OF THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM FOR, UH, TEXAS GAS SERVICE.

UM, TONIGHT I'M GONNA BE GIVING YOU AN OVERVIEW OF OUR PROGRAM ACTIVITIES, UM, FOR THE SECOND QUARTER OF 2024.

NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.

UM, IN THE SECOND QUARTER OF THIS YEAR, WE FOCUSED A LOT OF OUR ATTENTION ON OUR EDUCATION AND OUTREACH EFFORTS IN AUSTIN.

UM, AS WE'VE DONE FOR SEVERAL YEARS NOW, WE COLLABORATED WITH OUR FRIENDS AT AUSTIN ENERGY TO STAFF A VENDOR BOOTH AT THE ANNUAL KITE FEST AT ZILKER PARK ON APRIL 14TH.

AND, UM, ALSO FOR THE SECOND YEAR IN A ROW, UH, TEXAS GAS SERVICE ATTENDED, UH, THE FOR LOVE OF PARKS EVENT AT RICHARD MOYA PARK ON MAY 11TH.

UM, SO AS AUSTINITES KNOW, SPRING IS THE PERFECT TIME TO ENJOY THE OUTDOORS IN OUR CITY, AND WE TOOK ADVANTAGE OF THE BEAUTIFUL WEATHER BY CREATING AWARENESS AND SHARING INFORMATION ABOUT OUR ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM WITH OUR LOCAL COMMUNITY.

UM, NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.

UH, THIS SLIDE SHOWS A BAR CHART OF THE ACTUAL PROGRAM DOLLARS, UH, SPENT THROUGH, UH, JUNE YEAR TO DATE, UH, WHICH ARE THE AMOUNTS IN BLUE THERE, AND HOW THESE AMOUNTS COMPARE TO THE REMAINING BUDGET FOR THE YEAR, WHICH ARE THE AMOUNTS IN ORANGE.

UM, THE TOP ROW INCLUDES ALL PROGRAM REBATES AND INCENT AND INCENTIVES OFFERED, UM, FOLLOWED BY THE AMOUNTS FOR OUR FOUR MAIN PROGRAM OFFERINGS, WHICH ARE, UM, NEW CONSTRUCTION, COMMERCIAL, UH, FREE EQUIPMENT AND THE RESIDENTIAL RETROFIT PROGRAM.

SO, AS YOU CAN SEE, OUR CUSTOMER UTILIZATION IS TRENDING LOWER THAN WE WOULD LIKE FOR THE RESIDENTIAL RETROFIT AND NEW CONSTRUCTION PROGRAMS. UM, ONE REASON FOR THIS UNDER UTILIZATION IS DUE TO THE GROWTH PATTERNS IN OUR AREA, WE'RE CURRENTLY SEEING THAT MOST OF THE GROWTH, UM, IN, IN OUR AREAS THERE ARE OUTSIDE OF THE CITY LIMITS AND ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR, UM, OUR REBATES AND INCENTIVES CURRENTLY.

UM, NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.

UH, IN THE NEXT SLIDE, UM, IN THIS SLIDE, I'D LIKE TO HIGHLIGHT SOME OF THE ACTIVITIES, UH, THAT WE UNDERTOOK IN, IN THE SECOND QUARTER AS THEY RELATE TO, UH, THE RESIDENTIAL PROGRAM.

SO, UM, FIRST UP WE INCLUDED A MENTION IN OUR, UH, MAY NEWSLETTER, UH, WHICH IS CALLED THE PIPELINE, UH, TO PROVIDE CUSTOMERS WITH TIPS THAT DETAIL THE ACTIONS THAT THEY CAN TAKE TO REDUCE OR ELIMINATE, UM, UNNECESSARY OR WASTEFUL ENERGY CONSUMPTION AND SAVE MONEY.

UM, THEN ALSO IN THE JUNE PIPELINE, WE INCLUDED A MENTION THAT EDUCATED OUR CUSTOMERS ON HOW THEY CAN REQUEST A FREE WATER SAVINGS KIT.

UH, THROUGH JUNE, WE PROVIDED 274 WATER KITS TO QUALIFIED CUSTOMERS IN OUR AREA.

UM,

[02:40:02]

NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.

UH, THIS SLIDE HIGHLIGHTS THE PROGRAM, UM, AUSTIN ENERGY OFFERS AND HOW WE PARTNER WITH THEM TO DELIVER EXTRA SAVINGS TO LOCAL RESIDENTS FOR, UM, MAKING ENERGY EFFICIENT, UM, HOME IMPROVEMENT CHOICES.

UM, WE OFFER, UH, INCENTIVES FOR UPGRADE UPGRADES SUCH AS, UH, ATTIC INSULATION, DUCT CEILING INSULATION AND REPLACEMENT, HIGH EFFICIENCY NATURAL GAS FURNACES AND WIFI THERMOSTATS.

UM, THROUGH JUNE, 2024, TEXAS GAS SERVICE PAID OUT A TOTAL OF 225 REBATES AND DISPERSED OVER 35,000 IN HOME ENERGY SAVINGS, UH, FUNDS.

UH, NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.

UH, THIS SLIDE, UH, HIGHLIGHTS THE FREE EQUIPMENT PROGRAM THAT WE ADMINISTER.

UM, THE BUBBLE MAP HERE, UH, DEPICTS AREAS OF TOWN WHERE, UH, PARTICIPANTS BENEFITED MOST FROM THE PROGRAM AND, UH, THE NATURAL GAS APPLIANCES THAT WERE REPLACED IN EACH AREA.

SO, UM, AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE VISUALIZATION HERE, THE WATER HEATERS AND RANGES ARE TYPICALLY THE MOST POPULAR APPLIANCES FOR THIS PROGRAM.

UM, OVERALL, DURING THE SECOND QUARTER OF 2024, UH, TEXAS GAS SERVICE REPLACED 49 NATURAL GAS APPLIANCES AND SPENT 137,000 IN PROGRAM FUNDS TO HELP THOSE IN NEED IN OUR COMMUNITY.

UM, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

UM, THIS SLIDE HIGHLIGHTS SOME OF THE ADVERTISING CAMPAIGNS THAT OUR TEAM WAS ENGAGED IN DURING THE SECOND QUARTER.

UM, WHILE WE CONTINUED OUR SUCCESSFUL PARTNERSHIPS WITH COMMUNITY IMPACT AND K-U-T-K-U-T-X, UH, WE LOOKED FOR NEW ADVERTISERS TO PARTNER WITH IN THE SECOND QUARTER IN AN, IN AN ATTEMPT TO, UH, REACH A BROADER AUDIENCE, UM, THAT MAY NOT BE AWARE OF OUR PROGRAM.

SO AS A RESULT, WE RAN, UH, MONTH LONG AD CAMPAIGNS WITH, UH, THE AUSTIN MONITOR AND THE AUSTIN CHRONICLE.

UH, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

SO, UM, I THINK THAT PRETTY MUCH WRAPS THINGS UP.

UM, UH, BEFORE I TAKE YOUR QUESTIONS THOUGH, I DO WANT TO, UM, ADDRESS THE TWO QUESTIONS THAT WERE ASKED IN JULY.

UM, THE LAST TIME I WAS HERE.

UM, NUMBER ONE, COMMISSIONER STONE, YOU HAD A QUESTION ABOUT, UH, WHAT CLEAR RESULT CHARGES US FOR THEIR ADMIN COSTS.

I THINK, UM, MY PRESENTATION THEN WAS, UH, ONE OF THE SLIDES WAS DEDICATED TO OUR DIRECT INSTALLATION, UM, PROGRAM FOR ON THE COMMERCIAL SIDE.

SO, UM, TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION, CLEAR RESULT INCLUDES A FIVE TO 10% FEE IN EACH OF THEIR MEASURE COSTS.

UM, THE SECOND QUESTION WAS FROM COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.

UM, YOU ASKED HOW MANY FAMILIES WE HAD ASSISTED, UM, WITH THE FREE EQUIPMENT PROGRAM IN THE FIRST QUARTER.

SO, UM, YOU MAY HAVE SEEN MY SLIDE WHERE I TALKED ABOUT THE FREE EQUIPMENT, UH, PROGRAM.

SO I INCLUDED THAT, UH, THAT DATA POINT THAT YOU, UM, YOU HAD ASKED ABOUT.

SO, UM, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION THOUGH, FOR THE FIRST QUARTER, THE NUMBER OF FAMILIES THAT, UH, WE ASSISTED WAS 31.

SO AGAIN, THAT WAS OUT OF A TOTAL OF 47 APPLIANCES REPLACED.

UM, YEAH, SO WITH THAT, UM, I THINK I'M DONE.

I'LL HERE TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS.

UH, I'LL START OFF WITH ONE SOFTBALL QUESTION, AND THAT IS, UH, ON THE SLIDE WHERE YOU'RE DISCUSSING, UH, LOW INCOME, UH, EQUIPMENT REPLACEMENT UHHUH, YOU REPLACED 49 ITEMS AT A COST OF $137,000.

THAT'S ABOUT $2,800 PER UNIT.

WHAT ARE WE REPLACING AT THOSE KINDS OF NUMBERS? YEAH, SO WHAT, WHAT WE SEE TYPICALLY WHEN WE GO INTO A LOT OF THOSE HOMES IS, UM, THOSE ARE, YOU KNOW, OLDER HOMES TYPICALLY.

UM, AND SO A LOT OF TIMES A LOT OF THAT WORK IS DONE TO BRING THINGS UP TO CODE.

UM, ADDITIONAL WORK NEEDS TO BE DONE TO MAKE SURE, UM, YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING IS VENTED PROPERLY.

AND, UM, AND LIKE I SAID, UP TO CODE.

SO WE, WE DO SEE THAT THOSE, YOU KNOW, IT, UM, IT CAN SEEM MISLEADING IN THE NUMBERS 'CAUSE OBVIOUSLY, UH, YOU KNOW, A, A WATER HEATER DOESN'T COST 2,800, BUT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NEEDING TO REPLACE WALLS AND RUN THE FLU A DIFFERENT WAY, UM, THAT THAT CAN INVOLVE, UH, A HIGHER COST FOR SURE.

SO WE, YOU KNOW, OUR, OUR, UH, EMPHASIS IS TO MAKE SURE THAT, UM, THOSE CUSTOMERS ARE, ARE SAFE.

SO DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? YES.

THANK YOU.

COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.

THANK YOU.

UM, THANK YOU FOR THIS REPORT.

WHAT IS THE

[02:45:01]

TEXAS GAS SERVICE CENTRAL TEXAS REVENUES, AND WHAT IS YOUR ENERGY EFFICIENCY BUDGET AS A, IN PROPORTION TO THOSE REVENUES, PLEASE? UM, I CAN'T SPEAK TO THE, THE REVENUES.

UM, THAT'S KIND OF NOT, NOT REALLY IN MY WHEELHOUSE.

I CAN GET BACK TO YOU ON THAT THOUGH.

UM, AS FAR AS THE CENTRAL TEXAS ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM BUDGET OVERALL, IT'S $350,000 A YEAR IN TOTAL.

UH OH.

ARE YOU SURE? YEAH, THAT, AM I RIGHT? NO.

OH, I'M SORRY.

YOU CLOSE.

YOU.

IT'S ALL RIGHT.

.

WE'RE HANGING IN.

IT'S LIKE 3.5 MILLION.

I'M SORRY, 3.5 MILLION.

I HAD ANOTHER NUMBER IN MY HEAD.

SO SORRY.

FORGIVE ME.

, IT'S BEEN ONE OF THOSE DAYS.

UM, YEAH, IT'S BEEN A LITTLE LONG HERE, BUT , YEAH.

JASMINE KING BUSH, UH, ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM MANAGER.

I JUST ALSO WANTED TO CLARIFY, COMMISSIONER, THAT THE PROGRAM ITSELF HAS NO REVENUE, SO THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM DOES NOT CREATE REVENUE FOR THE COMPANY.

JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CLARIFIED THAT POINT.

THANK YOU.

COMMISSIONER LUKI.

I'M CURIOUS HOW, UH, YOU FIND THE FAMILIES TO ASSIST IN THESE, UH, UPGRADES.

HOW DO THEY COME TO YOU? SO WE WORK, UH, VERY CLOSELY WITH OUR LOCAL ASSISTANCE AGENCIES.

UM, I KNOW WE WORK WITH AUSTIN ENERGY.

WE WORK WITH MEALS ON WHEELS, UM, EASTER SEALS.

THERE'S, THERE'S SEVERAL, UM, AGENCIES THAT WE WORK WITH.

THEY HELP US QUALIFY THOSE CUSTOMERS AND DETERMINE, UM, THEIR, THEIR INCOME, UH, ELIGIBILITY THERE.

AND THEN THEY, THEY SEND THOSE REFERRALS TO, TO OUR TEAM TO WORK.

COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN, THANK YOU ON, UM, YOUR SLIDE ON PAGE SEVEN MM-HMM.

, WHICH IS ONE BACK.

YEAH.

WHAT IS THE MAY EXTRA DRYER PROMO? DO PEOPLE NEED MORE THAN ONE DRYER? NO.

CAN YOU EVER HAVE ENOUGH DRYERS? ? I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT REFERS TO OUR EXISTING REBATE.

WE OFFER A, UH, A $225, UH, INCENTIVE FOR CUSTOMERS WHO, UH, PURCHASE A NATURAL GAS DRYER, UM, DURING THE MONTH OF MAY.

UM, WHICH COINCIDES WITH, UH, WITH MEMORIAL DAY, OF COURSE, WE OFFER AN EXTRA A HUNDRED DOLLARS PROMOTION, UM, FOR, FOR THAT INCENTIVE DURING, DURING THAT.

SO IT'S A BIGGER REBATE? IT IS A BIGGER REBATE, YES.

$325.

YES.

UM, UH, UH, LEMME DO A QUICK, IS THERE AN EFFICIENCY STANDARD THAT THOSE ARE HELD TO THAT'S HIGHER THAN A TYPICAL NATURAL GAS DRYER? YES.

THEY MUST HAVE A MOISTURE SENSOR.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

UH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS JUST WANTED TO, UH, CLARIFY THAT, UM, THAT $325 BUYS APPROXIMATELY A DOLLAR 49 CENTS OF SAVINGS A YEAR.

SO IT'S NOT THE MOST COST EFFICIENT PROGRAM THAT HAVE, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN THANK YOU.

IS, DO Y'ALL GIVE OUT A DIFFERENT WATER SAVING KIT THAN AUSTIN ENERGY DOES? THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION.

I AM NOT SURE WHAT AUSTIN ENERGY CURRENTLY GIVES OUT, BUT I CAN TELL YOU PICK OUT AWAY SO IT IT'LL BE A MYSTERY UNTIL NEXT MONTH.

NEXT.

YEAH.

I CAN TELL YOU WHAT OURS CONTAINS.

IT HAS TWO BATHROOM SINK, UH, UH, FAUCET AERATORS.

IT HAS A KITCHEN SWIVEL, UH, FAUCET ATTACHMENT, AND IT HAS A, UH, A LOW FLOW SHOWER HEAD AND, UH, IT COMES WITH PLUMBING TAPE AS WELL.

AND, AND ARE THOSE INCOME QUALIFIED OR YOU'D GIVE THEM TO ANYONE WHO SAYS, HEY, I WANNA SAVE SOME WARM WATER? YES.

ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SAVE ON THEIR, ON THEIR WATER BILL? YES.

UM, WE, WE OFFER THOSE TWO AS LONG AS THEY QUALIFY FOR THE PROGRAM, THEY HAVE TO BE WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS AND HAVE AN ACTIVE TGS ACCOUNT.

THANK YOU, UHHUH, , ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION? YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN TROOPERS.

IT'S ALMOST NINE O'CLOCK.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

DON'T WANNA STAND IN YOUR WAY OR DINNER OR BEDTIME OR WHATEVER.

THANK YOU.

.

NICE TALL GLASS OF BOURBON FOR ME.

UH, MOVING ON, ON OUR AGENDA.

[13. Discussion regarding information on the Texas Gas Service rate case, update on the rate case meeting with the City of Austin staff, and questions added into the City’s Texas Gas Service request for information]

ITEM NUMBER 13, DISCUSSION REGARDING INFORMATION ON THE TEXAS GAS SERVICE.

RAY CASE IS YOUR ITEM, ALLISON? OH, OKAY.

HELPFUL REMINDER.

THE PURPOSE OF OF PUTTING THIS ON WAS JUST TO LET YOU ALL KNOW THAT, UM, COMMISSIONERS DAVIS ROBBINS SCHWARTZ AND I HAD

[02:50:01]

A MEETING WITH THE CITY ATTORNEYS WHO ARE, UM, REPRESENTING THE CITY IN THE TEXAS GAS SERVICE RATE CASE.

AND, UM, OFFERED THEM SOME SUGGESTIONS ABOUT QUESTIONS TO ASK AND ISSUES TO ADDRESS IN THAT RATE CASE.

AND WE CONTINUE TO ASK THE CITY TO, ON A PARALLEL TRACK, TO DANE, TO MEET WITH US TO DISCUSS THE ISSUE THAT, UM, OF THE TWO OR THREE MEETINGS AGO, WE APPROVED A CHANGE IN OUR BYLAWS TO GIVE US MORE THE ABILITY TO SPEAK ABOUT TEXAS GAS SERVICE AND, AND ON ISSUES BEYOND CONSERVATION ALONE.

AND THE CITY ATTORNEYS AND FINANCE OFFICE HAVE BEEN A LITTLE, UM, STIFF NECKED ABOUT WHETHER THEY THINK THAT IT IS IN OUR SCOPE AND THEY HAVE NOT YET SCHEDULED THAT MEETING, BUT WE HOPE IT WILL OCCUR WITHIN THE FULLNESS OF TIME.

SO THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO SHARE.

HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.

I AM HOPING THAT THIS FOLLOW UP MEETING THAT, UH, COMMISSIONER STEIN REFERS TO, UH, WILL OCCUR WITHIN THE NEXT THREE WEEKS.

THAT'S WHAT I'M, IT, IT, IT IS WORTH NOTING THAT WHEN THE CITY ATTORNEYS EXPRESSED HESITATION ABOUT THE APPROPRIATENESS OF OUR ROLE, THE CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS IN THAT MEETING PUSHED BACK PRETTY HARD ON WHY, WHY SHOULDN'T ANOTHER COMMISSION BE PAYING ATTENTION TO THESE ISSUES? AND THEY, CITY COUNCIL DIDN'T SEEM TO HAVE ANY ISSUE ABOUT CHANGING OUR BYLAWS.

SO, UM, WE JUST HAVE TO MAKE SURE THE CITY COUNCIL AND WE ARE SUITABLY PERSUASIVE WITH RESPECT TO THE ATTORNEYS INVOLVED.

WELL, UM, THAT WAS OF COURSE, A COMMITTEE OF COUNSEL, BUT YES, UH, THEY WERE SUPPORTIVE OF, OF EXPANDING OUR PURVIEW.

THANK YOU.

OKAY.

THERE BEING NOTHING FURTHER ON THAT ONE.

UH, OH.

I THOUGHT YOU THERE WAS A HAND RAISED.

OKAY.

UM, SO FOR FUTURE AGENDA

[FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]

ITEMS, ONE THING THAT I WILL START US OFF WITH RIGHT AWAY IS THAT WE WILL HAVE DISCUSSION REGARDING LOW INCOME ENERGY PROGRAMS, INCLUDING AIR CONDITIONING REPLACEMENT THAT GOT BUMPED LAST MONTH OR, AND THEN BUMPED AGAIN THIS MONTH.

IT WILL REAPPEAR NEXT MONTH ON OUR AGENDA ALONG WITH ITEMS FIVE AND SIX THAT WE TABLED TO NEXT MONTH AS WELL.

UH, ALONG WITH THAT, ARE THERE ANY OTHER THINGS THAT WOULD LIKE TO BE DISCUSSED BY THIS COMMISSION NEXT MONTH? AND IT'S OKAY TO HAVE A QUIET MONTH WITHOUT A LOT ON THE AGENDA.

OKAY.

OKAY.

SEEMS LIKE THAT'S PROBABLY A GOOD START FOR US THEN FOR NEXT MONTH.

AND I'M SURE THERE'LL BE SOMETHING ELSE THAT WILL COME UP ON SOME SORT OF A, A BASIS IN THE INTERIM.

MOVE TO ADJOURN.

I HAVE A MOTION TO ADJOURN BY, BY COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.

IS THERE ANY, UH, SECOND.

SECOND.

SECONDED BY LUKI.

ANY OBJECTION TO THUS GOING HOME? HEARING NONE, IT'S 9:00 PM HAVE A GOOD EVENING, FOLKS.

THANK YOU EVERYONE.

HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.