* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.
          [CALL MEETING TO ORDER]
          [00:00:04]
          UM, I'M PAUL ROBBINS, VICE CHAIR OF THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF AUSTIN, CALLING THIS MEETING TO ORDER. 
          UM, FIRST ON OUR AGENDA, UH, IS PUBLIC COMMUNICATION. 
          ARE THERE ANY SPEAKERS SIGNED UP? NO. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, SECOND 
          [1. Approve the minutes of the Resource Management Commission Regular Meeting on  October 15, 2024.]
ON OUR AGENDA IS APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES OF THE OCTOBER 15TH RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION MEETING. 
          UM, DO I, UH, DO I HEAR A MOTION FOR APPROVAL? UH, SO MOVED. 
          DO I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, ALL IN FAVOR, UH, PLEASE RAISE YOUR HAND AND THE PEOPLE ATTENDING, UH, VIRTUALLY THEY'LL HAVE TO TURN THEIR CAMERAS ON TO. 
          OKAY, I SEE. 
          1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. 
          UH, IS COMMISSIONER ERUS, UH, IN THE OFFICE? COMMISSIONER ERUS? YES. 
          UH, WE'RE, WE'VE MOVED APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES OF THE LAST MEETING. 
          UH, HAVE WE LOST, UH, COMMISSIONER ERUS? UH, MS. GOODWIN? HE'S STILL ON. 
          HIS CAMERA IS JUST NOT ON. 
          WE HAVE ENOUGH. 
          I I'M STILL HERE. 
          I THINK I JUST MIGHT, I HAVE GREAT SIGNAL WHERE, WHERE I AM. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, HERE'S MY, SINCE YOU SHOWED YOURSELF, UH, DID YOU VOTE YES. 
          WOULD YOU RAISE YOUR HAND? YES, I VOTED YES. 
          OKAY. 
          I'M GONNA TAKE THAT AS A YES. 
           OH SEVEN OH WITH NO ABSTENTIONS AND, UH, NO NOS. 
          UM, NEXT, UH, WE 
          [Items 2 & 3]
ARE OUR, I'M GONNA READ THIS INTO THE RECORD, BUT I'M GOING TO LET STAFF MAKE THEIR PRESENTATION PRIOR TO OUR VOTING ON IT. 
          ITEM THREE, RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF A RESOLUTION, REPEALING RESOLUTION NUMBER 20 24 5 2 5, WHICH ADOPTED THE PRIOR WATER CONSERVATION PLAN FOR MUNICIPAL AND WHOLESALE WATER USE, AND ADOPTING AN UPDATED WATER CONSERVATION PLAN, WHICH DESCRIBES AUSTIN WATER'S ONGOING WATER CONSERVATION STRATEGIES, PROGRAMS, AND GOALS AS REQUIRED BY THE TEXAS COMMISSION ON ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY FUNDING. 
          THIS ITEM HAS NO FISCAL IMPACT. 
          SO I'M GOING TO ASK, UH, THERE ARE ARE TWO PRESENTATIONS. 
          UH, ONE IS A STAFF BRIEFING ON THE PROPOSED REVISIONS TO AUSTIN'S WATER CONSERVATION PLAN AND DROUGHT CONTINGENCY PLAN, UH, BY SHEA RALSTON, DIRECTOR AUSTIN WA OF AUSTIN WATER. 
          KEVIN KLUGE, WATER CONSERVATION DIVISION MANAGER, AUSTIN WATER. 
          UM, PLEASE, UH, COME FORWARD AND BRIEFLY IDENTIFY YOURSELF. 
          GOOD EVENING. 
          I'M SHAY RAWLS ROLSON. 
          I'M THE DIRECTOR OF AUSTIN WATER. 
          UH, WE HAVE A BRIEFING FOR YOU TODAY THAT COVERS, UM, BOTH ITEM THREE THAT CHAIR ROBBINS READ INTO THE RECORD AS WELL AS ITEM TWO. 
          UM, IF YOU CARE TO COVER THAT ONE AS WELL, CHAIR, PARDON MY LAPSE, UH, ITEM TWO, READ INTO THE RECORD, RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF A RESOLUTION. 
          REPEALING ITEM 20 24 0 5 0 2 DASH 0 0 4, WHICH ADOPTED A REVISED DROUGHT CONTINGENCY PLAN AND ADOPTING AND UPDATED DROUGHT CONTINGENCY PLAN, WHICH INCLUDES DROUGHT AND EMERGENCY RESPONSE STAGES DUE TO WATER SUPPLY SHORTAGES, SETS, TARGETS FOR WATER USE REDUCTIONS, 
          [00:05:01]
AND OTHER ELEMENTS REQUIRED BY STATE LAW AS REQUIRED BY THE TEXAS COMMISSION ON ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY FUNDING. 
          THIS ITEM HAS NO IMPACT. 
          I APOLOGIZE FOR MY LAPSE. 
          PLEASE PROCEED. 
          THANK YOU. 
          I BELIEVE WE HAVE A SLIDE DECK. 
          GREAT. 
          THANK YOU SO MUCH. 
          AS I SAID, MY NAME IS SHAY ROLSON. 
          I'M THE DIRECTOR OF AUSTIN WATER. 
          I'M JOINED BY KEVIN KLUGE, OUR DIVISION MANAGER FOR WATER CONSERVATION. 
          AND WE'LL, UM, TODAY, THE, THE 
          [4. Staff briefing on the proposed revisions to Austin’s Water Conservation Plan and  Drought Contingency Plan by Shay Ralls Roalson, Director, Austin Water and Kevin  Kluge, Water Conservation Division Manager, Austin Water.]
ITEMS ON YOUR AGENDA ARE THE WATER CONSERVATION PLAN AND THE DROUGHT CONTINGENCY PLAN. 
          UM, THIS COMMISSION VOTED TO RECOMMEND, UH, THE WATER CONSERVATION PLAN AND DROUGHT CONTINGENCY PLAN IN MAY OF THIS YEAR. 
          AND THOSE WERE SUBSEQUENTLY APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL. 
          UM, WE ARE BRINGING THEM BACK TO YOU TODAY BECAUSE THEY ARE, UH, HAVE BEEN UPDATED ALONGSIDE THE UPDATES TO THE WATER FORWARD PLAN, UM, WHICH IS ALSO GOING TO CITY COUNCIL ON THURSDAY. 
          SO I'M GONNA GIVE A BRIEF HIGH LEVEL OVERVIEW OF WATER FORWARD AND HOW THESE PLANS FIT INTO THAT. 
          AND THEN KEVIN WILL TALK IN MORE DETAIL ABOUT, UM, THE UPDATES TO THE TWO PLANS THAT YOU ARE, UM, UH, VOTING ON TONIGHT. 
          NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. 
          DO I HAVE A CLICKER? I DO. 
          SO WATER FORWARD IS AUSTIN'S 100 YEAR, UH, WATER RESOURCES PLAN, AND IT WAS ORIGINALLY ADOPTED BY COUNCIL IN 2018. 
          UM, AND THE IMPORTANT WORDS ON THIS SLIDE ARE THAT THIS PLAN NEEDS TO BE ADAPTABLE TO GROWTH, DROUGHT AND CLIMATE CHANGE FOR THE FUTURE OF OUR COMMUNITY. 
          AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT BEING ADAPTABLE, WE'RE REALLY TALKING ABOUT PLANNING FOR UNCERTAINTY, AND THAT'S UNCERTAINTY AROUND HOW AND WHERE AUSTIN AND WHEN AUSTIN WILL GROW, UH, WHAT LEVEL OF SEVERITY OF CLIMATE CHANGE WE MAY FACE IN THIS REGION, AND THE DEPTH AND DURATION OF THE DROUGHTS THAT THIS REGION IS, IS PRONE TO. 
          AND, UH, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT DROUGHT, WE'RE SPECIFICALLY TALKING ABOUT THE COMBINED STORAGE OF LAKES, TRAVIS AND BUCHANAN. 
          SO AUSTIN GETS ALL OF OUR WATER FROM THE TEXAS, COLORADO RIVER, WHICH IS MANAGED BY THE LOWER COLORADO RIVER AUTHORITY. 
          AND, UH, WE LOOK AT THE STORED WATER THAT ARE, THAT IS STORED IN LAKES, TRAVIS AND BUCHANAN. 
          THIS IS A GRAPH SHOWING STORAGE LEVELS OVER THE COURSE OF TIME, GOING BACK TO THE FORTIES WHEN THE DAMS, UH, WERE BUILT TO FORM THE HIGHLAND LAKES. 
          YOU CAN SEE THE DROUGHTS IN THE FIFTIES AND SIXTIES THAT WERE OUR PREVIOUS DROUGHT OF RECORD THAT WE PLANNED AGAINST. 
          AND THEN YOU CAN SEE A LONG PERIOD OF RELATIVELY STABLE CONDITIONS WHERE THE LAKES WOULD FILL, FALL AND FILL, UM, OVER THE COURSE OF ABOUT A YEAR. 
          AND THEN A VERY DEEP, SEVERE DROUGHT FROM 2008 TO 2016, WHICH IS FUNDAMENTALLY, UM, WAS THE IMPETUS TO DEVELOPING OUR 100 YEAR WATER SUPPLY PLAN KNOWN AS WATER FORWARD. 
          SO, UH, VERY FOUNDATIONALLY TO WATER FORWARD IS WATER CONSERVATION, UH, AS WELL AS WATER REUSE. 
          SO WE GET, WE TAKE WATER FROM THE TEXAS, COLORADO RIVER. 
          WE TREAT IT AT WATER TREATMENT PLANTS. 
          WE DELIVER IT TO OUR CUSTOMERS. 
          WE COLLECT THE USED WATER BACK FROM THEM, DELIVER THAT TO OUR WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANTS, TREAT IT AGAIN, PUT IT BACK INTO THE COLORADO RIVER. 
          A PORTION OF THAT TREATED EFFLUENT IS RETURNED INTO OUR CENTRALIZED RECLAIMED WATER SYSTEM AND DELIVERED TO CUSTOMERS WHO USE IT FOR NON-DRINKING WATER USES. 
          UH, AND SO THAT IS OUR RECLAIMED OUR REUSE STRATEGY HERE, OUR RECLAIMED WATER. 
          AND SO FUNDAMENTALLY, UH, WATER THAT WE CONSERVE THAT WE NEVER USE IN THE FIRST PLACE, OR THAT WE REUSE EVERY DROP OF WATER THAT, UM, THAT WE SAVE IN CONSERVATION REUSE IS A DROP OF WATER WE DON'T HAVE TO TAKE OUT OF THE COLORADO RIVER. 
          SO THAT'S THE FOUNDATION OF OUR PLAN. 
          UH, AND THEN, UM, BECAUSE WE GET ALL OF OUR SUPPLY FROM THE COLORADO RIVER, WE DO NEED TO FIND WAYS TO STRETCH AND ADD TO OUR SUPPLIES. 
          UH, AND THEN WE ARE NOT THE ONLY COMMUNITY THAT DEPENDS ON THE TEXAS, COLORADO RIVER. 
          SO OUR RELATIONSHIPS, OUR PARTNERSHIPS WITH LOWER COLORADO RIVER AUTHORITY AND THE OTHER, UM, USERS OF, OF THIS WATER, MUNICIPALITIES, AND OTHER USERS ARE, ARE REALLY IMPORTANT PARTS OF OUR STRATEGIES. 
          SO THERE'S A LOT OF WORK THAT WENT INTO THIS SLIDE, BUT THIS IS JUST A, A, A HIGH LEVEL OVERVIEW TO SHOW YOU, UM, THE, WE LOOKED AT, UH, MANY, MANY DIFFERENT STRATEGIES AND DIFFERENT PORTFOLIO, DIFFERENT SCENARIOS AND DIFFERENT PORTFOLIOS OF STRATEGIES. 
          UM, WHAT THIS GRAPH ON THE LEFT IS SHOWING YOU IS THAT WE SCORED, THAT'S THE X AXIS. 
          WE SCORED EACH, UM, UH, EACH PORTFOLIO, 
          [00:10:01]
UM, AGAINST EACH OTHER. 
          SO ON A SCALE UP TO A HUNDRED PERCENT. 
          AND THEN WE, UM, SCORED THE COST RELATIVE FROM LOWEST COST TO HIGHEST COST. 
          AND SO THAT LEADING EDGE OF BLUE DOTS ON THE RIGHT, THOSE ARE THE PORTFOLIOS THAT PERFORMED THE BEST FOR THE LEAST COST OR COST THE LEAST FOR THE BEST PERFORMANCE, UM, COMPARED TO ONE ANOTHER. 
          WE PICKED 10 OF THOSE TO DO A MORE DETAILED ANALYSIS. 
          AND WHAT YOU CAN SEE ON THE RIGHT THERE IS THE 10 PORTFOLIOS THAT WE DID THE MORE DETAILED ANALYSIS ON. 
          AND, UM, THOSE TOP, UH, SIX LINES ARE CONSERVATION REUSE STRATEGIES. 
          EVERY ONE OF THESE PORTFOLIOS USES THE MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF CONSERVATION AND REUSE. 
          UM, SO THAT'S FUNDAMENTAL TO, UH, EVERY STRATEGY THAT WE LOOKED AT GOING, UH, GOING FORWARD. 
          AND THEN A COMBINATION OF SUPPLY STRATEGIES, UM, THAT ALLOW US TO, UH, STORE WATER WE ALREADY HAVE OR BRING IN NEW SOURCES OF SUPPLY. 
          UM, AND SO THE RECOMMENDED STRATEGY, UM, AGAIN, ON THE LEFT, THE FULL COMPLIMENT OF CONSERVATION AND REUSE STRATEGIES. 
          AND THEN ON THE RIGHT, UM, A LOT OF THE, THESE STRATEGIES FUNDAMENTALLY MOVE FORWARD, UM, THE SAME STRATEGIES THAT WE HAD IN OUR 2018 PLAN, BUT WITH THE MORE ROBUST ANALYSIS THAT I'VE DESCRIBED, UM, AND SOME TWEAKS TO THE VOLUMES THAT WE THINK WE WILL NEED OUT OF EACH OF THESE STRATEGIES. 
          UM, AND ON THE WATER SUPPLY SIDE, STORING WATER IN AQUIFER STORAGE AND RECOVERY AND OFF CHANNEL RESERVOIR, UM, UH, REUSING WATER IN INDIRECT POTABLE REUSE, AND THEN A NEW WATER STRATEGY OF BRINGING IN BRACKISH GROUNDWATER, WHICH IS, WHICH IS, UM, MUCH FURTHER OUT IN THE PLAN, BUT IS INCLUDED IN OUR RECOMMENDED PORTFOLIO. 
          SO THAT IS THE VERY HIGH LEVEL OVERVIEW OF WATER FORWARD TO HELP, UM, SET THE CONTEXT FOR THE IMPORTANCE OF THE WATER CONSERVATION AND DROUGHT CONTINGENCY PLANS THAT YOU ALL ARE EVALUATING TONIGHT. 
          OH, SORRY, I HAVE ONE MORE SLIDE. 
          UH, THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE SLIDE FROM THE PLAN FROM 2018 TO 2024. 
          SO I THINK I'VE, I'VE COVERED MOST OF THESE, UM, ELEMENTS ALREADY. 
          UH, WE DID DO AN EQUITY AND AFFORDABILITY ROADMAP BECAUSE OF COURSE, THE BENEFITS AND BURDENS OF THESE STRATEGIES ARE VERY IMPORTANT TO OUR COMMUNITY. 
          UM, AND WE ALSO HAVE HAD, UH, WE HAVE A VERY WELL PROTECTED WATER SUPPLY BECAUSE OF, UM, DECADES OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTIONS THAT ARE IN PLACE AROUND THE TEXAS, COLORADO RIVER. 
          AND SO WE ARE CONTINUING THAT ANALYSIS FOR HOW WE CAN, UM, UNDER THE PRESSURES OF DEVELOPMENT THAT ARE HAPPENING IN OUR RIVER BASIN, AND NOW HOW CAN WE CONTINUE TO PROTECT OUR WATER SUPPLY FROM A QUALITY PERSPECTIVE. 
          UH, AND THEN, UM, THE EXPANDED USE OF WATER CONSERVATION. 
          UM, AND WE RECENTLY COMPLETED A WATER LOSS STUDY. 
          UM, AND SO THAT'S AN IMPORTANT PART THAT KEVIN WILL TALK ABOUT A LITTLE BIT. 
          OKAY, NOW IT'S KEVIN STERN. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS. 
          IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN. 
          IF YOU RECALL LAST MONTH, I WAS HERE GIVING YOU A PREVIEW OF WHAT WE'RE BRINGING TO YOU TONIGHT BECAUSE WE WILL BE TAKING THESE TO COUNCIL ON THURSDAY. 
          SO THERE'S A QUICK TURNAROUND BETWEEN THIS MEETING AND THE, AND THE COUNCIL MEETING. 
          SO THE TWO PLANS, WATER CONSERVATION, DROUGHT CONTINGENCY PLAN, BOTH REQUIRED BY THE STATE NEEDING TO BE UPDATED EVERY FIVE YEARS. 
          THE CONSERVATION PLAN TALKS ABOUT OUR EFFORTS YEAR ROUND, DAY IN, DAY OUT, DROUGHT, NOT DROUGHT, WAYS TO SAVE WATER. 
          THE DROUGHT CONTINGENCY PLAN REALLY FOCUSES ON WHEN WE ARE IN DIFFERENT STAGES OF DROUGHT AS THE RESERVOIRS GO DOWN. 
          AS YOU RECALL, BACK IN MAY, UH, AS DIRECTOR ROLSON MENTIONED, WE BROUGHT A PLAN TO YOU, UM, THAT, UH, INCORPORATED NEW UPDATES AND NEW METRICS TO WHAT WE'VE DONE OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS AND PROPOSED NEW ACTIVITIES THAT WE USE TO REALLY BUILD A BOTTOM UP ANALYSIS, ANALYSIS OF WHAT CAN BE SAVED OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS. 
          AND THAT WAS APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION AND THEN THE COUNCIL ALSO, SINCE THEN, THROUGHOUT THIS SUMMER, WE'VE BEEN WORKING HARD AT THE WATER FORWARD TASK FORCE IN LOOKING AT DIFFERENT WAYS WE CAN SAVE MORE WATER, UM, DIFFERENT ACTIVITIES, HOW WE CAN GO ABOUT THAT. 
          AND WE ARE NOW BRINGING THAT BACK TO YOU, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT WAS APPROVED LAST MAY AND WHAT WE HAVE FOR YOU NOW IS UP ON THE SLIDE SLIDE HERE, UH, DRIP IRRIGATION. 
          IT WILL BE RESTRICTED. 
          AND I'LL HAVE ANOTHER SLIDE ABOUT THIS IN JUST A MOMENT. 
          BUT THIS NEW PLAN ALSO INCORPORATES INFORMATION ON THE GO PURPLE PROGRAM, WHICH IS APPROVED BY COUNCIL BACK IN 
          [00:15:01]
MARCH, REALLY FOCUSES ON RECLAIMED WATER AND ONSITE WATER REUSE. 
          WE'VE INCLUDED MORE INFORMATION ABOUT WATER LOSS, WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT, UH, ACTIVITY THAT WE WILL BE WORKING ON OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS. 
          WE HAVE AN EXTERNAL REPORT THAT REALLY KIND OF PINPOINTED AREAS FOR US TO WORK ON FOR WATER LOSS. 
          THE PLAN DISCUSSED, UH, IN A COUPLE OF PAGES WHY WE DID NOT MEET THE GOALS THAT WERE PREVIOUSLY, UM, INCLUDED IN THE WATER CONSERVATION PLAN, WHAT WERE THE FACTORS OF THAT. 
          AND THEN AS DIRECTOR MO ROLSON MENTIONED, WE INTEGRATED THE CONSERVATION PLAN AND WITH THE WATER FORWARD PLAN ADDED SOME PREVIOUS ACTIVITIES. 
          UH, BUT I DO ESPECIALLY WANNA DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO THAT NEXT TO LAST BULLET ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE THERE, IN WHICH WE WILL BE LEANING INTO QUARTERLY AND ANNUAL REPORTS. 
          THIS COMMISSION GETS A QUARTERLY WATER CONSERVATION REPORT. 
          UM, BUT THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE SAME FOR THE OTHER COMMISSIONS. 
          BUT WHAT WE RECOGNIZED IN TALKING WITH THE WATERFORD TASK FORCE OVER THE SUMMER IS THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO GIVE REGULAR UPDATES NOT ONLY TO THIS COMMISSION, BUT TO THE OTHER COMMISSIONS OR WATERFORD TASK FORCE TO LET THEM KNOW HOW WE ARE DOING IN IMPLEMENTING THESE. 
          SO WE ARE REALLY GONNA LEAN INTO THE QUARTERLY REPORTS AND ANNUAL REPORTS OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS. 
          AND THEN FINALLY, WE REVISE THE WATER USE GOALS, PARTICULARLY THE TOTAL PER PERSON WATER USE OR TOTAL GPCD. 
          JUST VERY BRIEFLY HERE ON THIS SLIDE, THE TOP GRAPH YOU SEE THERE, THAT IS FROM THE 2019 WATER CONSERVATION PLAN. 
          AND IT LISTS THE GPCV GOALS, THE GALLONS PER CAPITA, DAILY OR PER PERSON WATER USE GOALS. 
          IN THAT 2019 PLAN, THERE WAS A BASELINE OF 126 GALLONS PER PERSON PER DAY. 
          AND THERE IS A GOAL FOR 2024 OF 119 GALLONS PER PERSON PER DAY IN THE MIDDLE. 
          THERE, YOU SEE THE GOALS FROM OUR PLAN FROM MAY SEC THAT WAS ADOPTED BY THE COUNCIL ON MAY 2ND, UH, BASELINE 1 27. 
          SO OVER A FIVE YEAR AVERAGE, WE UNFORTUNATELY DID NOT MAKE A LOT OF HEADWAY, BUT WE HAD, BUT WE BELIEVE THAT WE CAN GET DOWN TO 1 23 IN FIVE YEARS BASED ON THE SAVINGS OF THE DIFFERENT ACTIVITIES WE IDENTIFIED. 
          AND THAT BOTTOM CHART SHOWS WHAT WE'RE BRINGING TO YOU TODAY IS IN THIS NEW PLAN. 
          AFTER LOOKING AT ALL OF THE OTHER ACTIVITIES THAT WE CAN DO, WE BELIEVE WE CAN PUSH THAT TOTAL PER PERSON WATER USE GOAL DOWN TO 121 IN FIVE YEARS DROUGHT CONTINGENCY PLAN. 
          UM, THIS WAS FROM THE LAST PLAN. 
          WHAT HAPPENED BETWEEN THE PREVIOUS DROUGHT PLAN AND THE ONE THAT YOU SAW IN MAY? A LOT OF THINGS CHANGED. 
          WE ADDED A NEW STAGE. 
          WE ADDED SOME ADDITIONAL RESTRICTIONS AS WE GOT DEEPER INTO DROUGHT. 
          AND WE IDENTIFIED SOME NON-REGULATORY THINGS THAT WE AS A UTILITY AND CITY CAN DO TO SAVE WATER AND DROUGHT. 
          BUT THE PRIMARY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE DROUGHT PLAN THAT YOU SAW IN APRIL AND THE ONE THAT YOU SEE TONIGHT IS THAT WE ARE ADDING TO THE RESTRICTIONS IN TERMS OF IRRIGATION RESTRICTIONS. 
          DRIP IRRIGATION, CURRENTLY DRIP IRRIGATION HAS NO RESTRICTION. 
          YOU COULD WATER WHENEVER, HOWEVER, HOW MANY DAYS, HOWEVER LONG YOU WANT IN A DRIP IRRIGATION SYSTEM. 
          AND THAT WAS, THAT'S OUTSIDE OF OUR RESTRICTIONS. 
          SO WE FELT THAT IT WAS PRUDENT TO INCLUDE DRIP IRRIGATION INTO THE RESTRICTIONS. 
          WHILE DRIP IRRIGATION CAN BE A VERY EFFICIENT WAY TO DELIVER WATER RIGHT TO THE PLANTS, UM, IT, IF IT IS INSTALLED POORLY, IF IT IS MAINTAINED POORLY, IF IT IS RUN OPERATED POORLY, IT CAN USE SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF WATER, UH, EVEN ALMOST AS MUCH AS SPRAY IRRIGATION IN SOME AREAS. 
          SO WE FELT THAT IT WAS APPROPRIATE TO HAVE A REASONABLE RESTRICTION ON DRIP IRRIGATION IN THE NON DROUGHT CONSERVATION STAGE AND DROUGHT STAGES ONE AND TWO, UH, THERE WILL BE TWO DAYS PER WEEK THAT DRIP IRRIGATION CAN RUN. 
          AND THEN IN DEEPER STAGES OF DROUGHT ONE DAY PER WEEK. 
          UM, WE HAD A GOOD NUMBER OF DISCUSSIONS WITH, UH, LANDSCAPERS AND IRRIGATION STAKEHOLDERS, AND WE'VE INCLUDED EXEMPTIONS FOR THE WATERING OF TREES AND VEGETABLE GARDENS. 
          SO 
          [00:20:01]
THOSE ARE EXEMPT, CONTINUE TO BE EXEMPT FOR THOSE PURPOSES. 
          AND THAT REALLY WRAPS UP OUR PRESENTATION. 
          AS WE MENTIONED, WE'LL BE TAKING ALL THREE OF THESE PLANS TO THE COUNCIL ON THURSDAY FOR APPROVAL, PLUS AN ADDITIONAL RCA FOR CHANGES IN CODE TO IMPLEMENT THAT TRIP IRRIGATION. 
          AND WITH THAT, I'M HAPPY TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS, COMMISSIONERS, UM, ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? ARE COMMISSIONER LUKI? THANK YOU. 
          I'M VERY CURIOUS ABOUT YOUR PLAN FOR BRACKISH WATER IN THE FUTURE. 
          UH, I UNDERSTAND THAT IF TEXAS COULD USE ALL THE BRACKISH WATER WE HAD, WE'D HAVE PLENTY OF WATER. 
          AND UH, THE PROBLEM IS, IS THE AMOUNT OF ENERGY IT TAKES TO TAKE THE SALT OUT. 
          UM, I'M CURIOUS ABOUT WHAT Y'ALL ARE LOOKING AT. 
          WELL, THE, UM, AND THERESA, IF YOU WANNA HELP ME OUT WITH THIS, YOU CAN. 
          UM, WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THAT IT IS A TOOL IN THE TOOLBOX. 
          UH, AND SO WE, WE WANT TO BALANCE THE NEED FOR THAT ADDITIONAL SUPPLY WITH THE COST, UH, NOT JUST THE CONSTRUCTION COST, BUT AS YOU MENTIONED, THE ONGOING AND ENERGY AND, AND OPERATIONS COST THAT COME WITH IT. 
          SO, UM, NOT, UH, WE'RE NOT LOOKING TO BRACKISH GROUNDWATER TO, TO SOLVE ALL OUR PROBLEMS, BUT WE ARE LOOKING AT IT AS A PIECE OF THE, OF THE PUZZLE. 
          DO YOU WANNA ADD TO THAT? THIS IS THERESA LU. 
          OH, I'LL LET YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF. 
          THANK YOU. 
          YEAH. 
          THERESA LUTS. 
          AUSTIN WATER. 
          UH, YEAH, I JUST WANTED TO MENTION ALSO THAT THIS IS BRACKISH GROUNDWATER DESALINATION. 
          IT WOULD BE MORE IN THIS, UH, REGION, NOT, UM, SEAWATER DESALINATION, WHICH I THINK PROBABLY HAS, UM, A HIGHER AMOUNT OF, OF, UM, CONSTITUENTS THAT NEED TO BE REMOVED. 
          BUT THAT'S YET FOR US TO FIGURE OUT. 
          THERE'S A LONG LEAD TIME BETWEEN NOW AND THEN. 
          I THINK WE HAVE THAT STRATEGY COMING IN IN 2070. 
          SO IT'S A, IT'S A LONGER TERM, UM, STRATEGY. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO THERE'S A LOT OF GROUND TO PLOW BETWEEN NOW AND THEN. 
          AND, UH, IT IS, IT IS A STRATEGY THOUGH THAT OTHERS, UH, USE AND, UM, IS IN OUR, UM, IN THE STATE WATER PLAN AND IS BEING CONSIDERED BY OTHERS IN OTHER REGIONS. 
          SO WE'RE LOOKING AT THAT, UH, FOR LONG TERM. 
          I, IS IT TRUE THAT EL PASO HAS BUILT ONE OF THESE PLANTS AND THAT ONE IS BEING CONSIDERED IN SAN ANTONIO AS WELL? UM, YES. 
          I, UH, EL PASO HAS BRACKISH GROUNDWATER DESAL AND SAN ANTONIO WATER SYSTEM DOES AS WELL. 
          GREAT. 
          WELL, I GUESS Y'ALL SHOULD TALK TO THEM, SHOULDN'T WE? WE, WE ARE TALKING TO THEM. 
          YES. 
          YES, SIR. 
          UH, COMMISSIONERS, ARE THERE OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? UH, COMMISSIONER SCHWARTZ. 
          HEY THERE. 
          I THINK, UH, LAST TIME THERE WAS SOME MENTION OF THE PUBLIC AWARENESS BEING A CHALLENGE. 
          I THINK THE, UM, THE, SOME, THE DROUGHT RESTRICTIONS IN THE SUMMER, YOU KNOW, WE, YOU DIDN'T SEE ON THE CHART, THE PUBLIC REALLY RESPOND TO IT. 
          COULD YOU REMIND ME, UH, ARE THERE NEW STRATEGIES WITH THIS THAT ARE GONNA SORT OF CHANGE THE WAY THE, THAT'S COMMUNICATED TO THE PUBLIC? OR IS THIS SORT OF SEPARATE FROM THE, THIS NEW UPDATE? WELL, CERTAINLY, AND I DIDN'T ADDRESS IT MUCH IN THESE SLIDES, BUT CERTAINLY PUBLIC OUTREACH AND, AND MARKETING ENGAGEMENT, WHAT HAVE YOU, WILL BE A BIG PART OF THAT. 
          UH, OUR PO PIO HAS REALLY BULKED UP OVER THE LAST YEAR BEING ABLE TO DO MORE WITH NOT ONLY TRADITIONAL MEDIA AND SOCIAL MEDIA, UM, BUT TO HELP THE CONSERVATION DIVISION MM-HMM. 
           TO KINDA HELP US GET OUR SIGNS OUT, OUR NOTIFICATIONS OUT. 
          AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE ARE HOPING TO ARE LOOKING TO IMPLEMENT OVER THIS NEXT YEAR, I THINK IT'LL TAKE US ABOUT A YEAR TO WORK OUT THE DETAILS, IS THE USE OF MICROGRANTS WITH COMMUNITY ORGANIZATIONS. 
          'CAUSE YOU HAVE A LOT OF SMALL COMMUNITY ORGANIZATIONS ACROSS THE CITY WHO MAY BE VERY INTERESTED IN GETTING OUT THE WORD ABOUT CONSERVATION. 
          UM, AND WITH JUST A, A SMALL GRANT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE $3,000 OR SO, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN UTILIZE THAT FUNDING AND OUR SUPPORT TO HELP GET THAT OUT. 
          SO IT'S REALLY GOING TO, UH, HELP US NOT ONLY HAVE A KIND OF A TOP DOWN THROUGH TRADITIONAL SOCIAL MEDIA OUTREACH, BUT A MORE OF A, A GROUND LEVEL, UH, OUTREACH. 
          ARE THOSE LIKE NEIGHBORHOOD GROUPS OR, UH, GARDEN GROUPS OR, UH, THEY, THEY WILL NEED TO BE A NONPROFIT, BUT IT COULD BE A DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOOD GROUP. 
          IT COULD, YOU KNOW, IT COULD BE A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT GROUPS THAT ARE INTERESTED, UH, IN HELP PROMOTING CONSERVATION MESSAGES. 
          SO WE'LL HAVE TO SEE HOW THAT WORKS OUT. 
          GOTCHA. 
          THANKS. 
          [00:25:01]
UH, ONE MORE QUICK QUESTION. 
          UH, UH, I KNOW THERE IS SOME MENTION RECENTLY OF A NEW WATER TREATMENT PLANT. 
          IS THAT RELATED TO THIS ALSO? THERE'S THAT, UH, UNRELATED TO THIS. 
          WELL, THE, UM, THE OFF CHANNEL RESERVOIR, UH, STRATEGY, WHICH IS THE USE OF LAKE WALTER LONG, WHICH IS DECKER LAKE, UM, WHERE WE WOULD, UM, MOVE WATER FROM THE COLORADO RIVER INTO DECKER LAKE. 
          WE WOULD BUILD A WATER PLANT AT THAT LOCATION TO THEN TREAT IT AND, AND, UM, AND, UH, ADD IT TO OUR WATER DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM AT THAT POINT. 
          AND THAT'S LIKE WAY DOWN THE LINE, OR IS THAT, UH, IT, IT IS THAT, UM, DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT YEAR THERE THAT THE LAKE WALTER E. LONG COMES INTO OUR PLAN? I THINK IT'S 2030, SO WE'LL BE STARTING ON THAT SOON. 
          20 30, 20 40 BET. 
          I THINK IT COMES INTO THE PLAN BETWEEN 2030 AND 2040. 
          SO, YOU KNOW, IT TAKES US 10 OR 15 YEARS TO, TO GET A PROJECT OF THAT MAGNITUDE BUILT. 
          SO, WE'LL, UM, WE'LL BE LAUNCHING THAT PRETTY QUICK. 
          DENISE IS OKAY WITH IT? YES. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UH, I WAS CURIOUS ABOUT THE, THE GRANTS THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT. 
          LIKE FOR, FOR EXAMPLE, MY, MY NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION HAS A, HAS A, A GARDEN TYPE OF PLACE, THE COMMUNITY GARDEN. 
          WOULD A GRANT BE USABLE BY THAT TO, UH, LIKE KIND OF CAPTURE RAINWATER OR SOMETHING? IS THAT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE? YEAH, THAT, THAT COULD BE. 
          I MEAN, WE'D WANT TO, UM, WE'D ENCOURAGE IT TO BE KIND OF AN EDUCATIONAL THING. 
          UM, BUT CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN INCORPORATE RAINWATER CAPTURE AND EDUCATIONAL COMPONENT INTO SUCH TYPES OF ACTIVITIES. 
          THE KI THE CITY CURRENTLY HAS A MICRO-GRANT CALLED THE BRIGHT GREEN FUTURE GRANTS THAT'S BEING RUN THROUGH THE WATERSHED PROTECTION. 
          THEY WORK WITH SCHOOLS, SO SCHOOLS OFTEN WILL GET THESE SMALL MICRO GRANTS AND THEY'LL PUT TOGETHER A, SOME TYPE OF RAIN GARDEN OR PUT IN A, A RAINWATER CATCHMENT TANK, WHAT HAVE YOU. 
          SO YES. 
          THANK YOU, COMMISSIONERS. 
          ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? ONE MORE, JUST ONE, JUST ONE. 
          , NOT THREE. 
          UM, YEAH, I WAS JUST WONDERING, YOU SAID THAT THERE'S EXCEPTION FOR TREES AND GARDENS. 
          WHAT WOULD DRIP IRRIGATION BE USED BESIDES FOR TREES AND GARDENS? WHAT ARE WHAT IS USED BEYOND TREES AND GARDENS? UM, IT'S OFTEN USED, UH, QUITE OFTEN USED IN FLOWER BEDS. 
          UM, ALTHOUGH THOSE AREN'T, THOSE AREN'T GARDENS THERE? NO. 
          OKAY. 
          NO. 
          SO THOSE WOULD BE RESTRICTIONS. 
          UM, YOU MAY HAVE SEEN UP ON THE SLIDE ON THE BOTTOM LEFT HAND CORNER, THERE HAVE BEEN SOME INSTANCES WHERE COMMERCIAL PROPERTY OWNERS, YOU KNOW, RUN NOT IN BEDS, NOT IN FLOWER BEDS OR, UH, GARDENS. 
          THEY'RE JUST, THEY'RE BEING RUN IN LONG STRIPS BACK AND FORTH IN A LARGE GRASSY AREA. 
          OH, REALLY? UM, AND THAT'S ONE AREA WE'RE PARTICULARLY CONCERNED ABOUT, BECAUSE THAT CAN PUT OUT A LOT OF WATER, ALMOST EQUIVALENT TO WHAT YOU DO FOR SPRAY IRRIGATION. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UH, HAVE A QUESTION OR SO FROM COMMISSIONER ERUS? YES. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UM, I'M CURIOUS IF THERE'S LIKE A KIND OF ORDER OF MAGNITUDE, YOU KNOW, NUMBER COMPARING THE, LIKE, IMPACT HERE ON RESTRICTIONS FOR RESIDENTIAL, UH, CUSTOMERS VERSUS COMMERCIAL. 
          IS THAT IN REGARDS TO THE DRIP IRRIGATION, THE IMPACT OF THE NEW DRIP RESTRICTIONS ON RESIDENTIAL VERSUS COMMERCIAL? ANY, UH, ANY, ALL OF THE RESTRICTIONS, JUST LOOKING FOR LIKE A, TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A FIGURE OR A FEEL FOR LIKE, RELATIVE IMPACT ON SORT OF REGULAR AUSTIN RESIDENTS VERSUS COMMERCIAL ENTITIES? WELL, THE, THIS, THE IMPLEMENTATION OF ONE DAY A WEEK QUADRANT CERTAINLY HAS A LARGE, HAS HAD A LARGE IMPACT FROM 20 12, 20 13 WHEN WE WERE IN THAT LAST DROUGHT. 
          AND THEY'RE IMPLEMENTED. 
          UM, SO THAT, THAT DEFINITELY HAS HAD AN IMPACT OVERALL BETWEEN, UH, COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL. 
          YOU KNOW, THEY REALLY FACE THE SAME RESTRICTION OF, OF ONE DAY A WEEK IN TERMS OF DRIP. 
          I SEE IT'S BEING MORE PROBABLY OF AN IMPACT THIS 
          [00:30:01]
TRIP RESTRICTION ON, ON COMMERCIAL. 
          UH, WHEREAS MOST HOMEOWNERS, THEY MIGHT HAVE A COUPLE ZONES OF SPRAY IRRIGATION AND A COUPLE ZONES OF DRIP, AND JUST FOR SIMPLICITY, THEY RUN IT ALL THE SAME DAY. 
          THEY DON'T SPLIT UP THEIR DIFFERENT ZONES. 
          UM, WHEREAS COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES MIGHT BE A LITTLE MORE, I DON'T KNOW, SAVVY IF THAT'S THE WORD, UM, AND MIGHT RUN THOSE ZONES DIFFERENTLY. 
          SO I THINK IN TERMS OF THE DRIP, THAT WOULD BE MORE OF AN IMPACT ON COMMERCIAL IRRIGATION. 
          I, I GUESS WHAT I'M ASKING ACTUALLY IS LIKE, ARE ARE THERE ANY NON IRRIGATION WATER CONSERVATION RESTRICTIONS THAT LIKE IMPACT COMMERCIAL USERS OF WATER? I'M LOOKING FOR THE, LIKE IF, YEAH, I'LL JUST STOP WITH THAT QUESTION, ACTUALLY. 
          DOES THAT. 
          WELL, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF, OF VERY EFFECTIVE ONES THAT WE HAVE. 
          UM, IN ADDITION TO THESE ONE DAY A WEEK WATER RESTRICTIONS, WE ALSO HAVE THREE, UM, CONSERVATION ASSESSMENT PROGRAMS THAT SPECIFICALLY FOCUS ON COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS. 
          WE HAVE ONE, UH, WE HAVE SPECIFICS FOR COOLING TOWERS. 
          UH, COOLING TOWERS MUST INCLUDE A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT PIECES OF EQUIPMENT TO MAKE THEM MORE EFFICIENT. 
          AND THEY HAVE TO ANNUALLY SEND IN AN INSPECTION. 
          SIMILARLY, FOR CAR WASHES OR VEHICLE WASHES, THOSE COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS THAT HAVE THOSE HAVE TO SEND IN AN ANNUAL INSPECTION TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE RUNNING AS EFFICIENTLY AS POSSIBLE. 
          AND, AND FINALLY, EVEN COMMERCIAL IRRIGATORS WHO HAVE MORE THAN ONE ACRE OF LAND NEED TO, UH, EVERY TWO YEARS HAVE AN INSPECTION OF THEIR IRRIGATION SYSTEM. 
          SO THERE, THERE CERTAINLY IS A GOOD AMOUNT OF EMPHASIS ON COMMERCIAL USERS OUTSIDE OF THAT WATERING RESTRICTION. 
          DID THAT GET A LITTLE CLOSER TO WHAT YOU WERE ASKING? YES, THAT'S QUITE HELPFUL ACTUALLY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          I, I GUESS THE, YOU KNOW, THE QUESTION I'M REALLY ASKING HERE IS LIKE, ARE WE EQUALLY TURNING THE, THE SCREWS ON, LIKE RESIDENTS VERSUS COMMERCIAL ENTITIES? DO YOU FEEL LIKE THAT IS FAIRLY PROPORTIONED BEING PERSON THAT IS LIKE CLOSE TO THE LIKE, STRATEGY AND DATA HERE? I I DO THINK THAT, THAT WE ARE TRYING TO BE COMPARABLE BETWEEN BOTH TYPES OF CUSTOMERS. 
          UM, THIS OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS, AND I THINK I'VE SPOKEN SEVERAL TIMES, YOU KNOW, WE'VE REALLY BEEN FOCUSING MORE RECENTLY ON, UM, SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTS, NEW AND NEW SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTS TRYING TO TRANSPORT LANDSCAPES OF, OF THOSE NEW HOMES. 
          BUT WE'VE ALSO RECENTLY STARTED, UH, INSPECTING, UH, NEW IRRIGATION SYSTEMS FOR NEW SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. 
          SO WHILE WE'VE KIND OF BEEN FOCUSING ON RESIDENTIAL OVER THOSE LAST TWO YEARS, WE KINDA GO BACK AND FORTH OVER TIME, UM, IN, IN TRYING TO FOCUS ON ALL THE CUSTOMERS. 
          SO EVERYONE, EVERYONE CONTRIBUTES TO THE SAVINGS. 
          UH, OKAY. 
          THANK YOU COMMISSIONERS. 
          ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? UH, COMMISSIONER DAVIS? UM, THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION. 
          JUST A QUICK QUESTION. 
          UH, WAS THIS A, A APPROVED BY THE WATER AND COMMISSION LAST WEEK? IT WAS, IT WAS APPROVED LAST TUESDAY. 
          LAST WEDNESDAY. 
          LAST WEDNESDAY, CORRECT. 
          AND IT WAS ALSO APPROVED BY THE, UH, RECOMMENDED BY THE WATERFORD TASK FORCE THE PREVIOUS WEEK, C COMMISSIONERS. 
          ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? UH, COMMISSIONER SA SARITA, UH, YOUR, UH, VIRTUAL HAND IS STILL UP. 
          DO YOU HAVE OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? I DO NOT. 
          I WILL PUT MY HAND DOWN NOW. 
          THANKS FOR THE NOTE, YOUR VIRTUAL HAND. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, WELL THEN, UM, I, I AM GOING TO TAKE THE RARE STEP OF NOT HAVING ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ON THIS, AND I'M GOING TO ASK IF THERE ARE MOTIONS FOR APPROVAL OF ITEMS TWO AND THREE, THE DROUGHT CONTINGENCY PLAN AND THE WATER CONSERVATION PLAN, UM, TO APPROVE. 
          I'M SORRY, I JUST SAID MOTION TO APPROVE. 
          [00:35:01]
IS THAT COMMISSIONER OKAY? UH, YEAH. 
          HEY THERE. 
          UH, UH, IS THERE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND. 
          I A SECOND. 
          COMMISSIONER GARY, UH, COMMISSIONER GARY, UH, SECONDS. 
          AND, UM, YOU CAN SECOND YOU, YOU CAN DO THE OTHER. 
          I CAN BE THE SECOND. 
          SECOND, YEAH. 
          UH, ALL IN FAVOR? UH, PLEASE RAISE YOUR HAND. 
          AND THOSE ATTENDING VIRTUALLY, PLEASE TURN ON YOUR CAMERA. 
          UH, THERE'S FOUR IN ATTENDANCE RAISING THEIR HAND. 
          THERE'S COMMISSIONER FARMER, THERE'S, THERE'S, UH, COMMISSIONER SCAFF AND, UH, COMMISSIONER SARITA. 
          AND, UH, GARY, ARE YOU RAISING YOUR HAND? COULD YOU PLEASE BE ON CAMERA? YES. 
          I'M RAISING MY HAND. 
          I JUST PARKED AND HOPEFULLY YOU CAN SEE MY HAND. 
          MAYBE NOT UHUH. 
          I'M, HOLD ON THERE. 
          SHE'S OKAY. 
          DO YOU SEE MY HAND? THAT WAS GOOD. 
          I JUST PARKED, I JUST PARKED THAT. 
          THAT WAS, THAT WAS CLEVER. 
          OKAY. 
          WE HAVE, UM, EIGHT VOTES, FOUR, NO ABSTENTIONS, NO NEGATIVES. 
          IT PASSES. 
          UH, ON THE ITEM THREE, THE WATER CONSERVATION PLAN. 
          IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE? COMMISSIONER LUKI, WOULD YOU LIKE TO MAKE THE MOTION TO APPROVE? I WOULD LOVE TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, DO WE HAVE A SECOND? I, SECOND. 
          COMMISSIONER GARY, UH, UH, COMMISSIONER SCHWARTZ BEAT YOU TO IT, BUT VERY WELL. 
          OKAY, SO WE'VE GOT, UM, ALL IN FAVOR. 
          PLEASE RAISE YOUR HAND. 
          WE HAVE FOUR IN ATTENDANCE. 
          COULD THE, UH, OKAY. 
          COMMISSIONER SCAFF IS ON CAMERA WITH, UH, RAISED HAND. 
          COMMISSIONER GARY WITH HER PROBABLY RAISED HAND. 
          UH, YES. 
          MY HAND,  COMMISSIONER FARMER, CAN YOU DO PUPPETS? ? UH, I CAN. 
           AND COMMISSIONER, UH, SA SARUS. 
          OKAY. 
          WE'VE GOT, UH, 8 0 0. 
          THANK YOU COMMISSIONERS. 
          WE ARE, UH, 
          [6. Staff briefing regarding a Heat Pump Study by Sara Norris, Director, Energy Efficiency  Services, Austin Energy and Zach Baumer, Chief Sustainability Officer, Office of  Sustainability.]
GOING NEXT TO ITEM SIX, UH, STAFF BRIEFING REGARDING A STAFF, UH, BRIEFING REGARDING A HEAT PUMP STUDY BY SARAH NORRIS, DIRECTOR, ENERGY EFFICIENCY SERVICES OF AUSTIN ENERGY, AND ZACH BAUMER, CHIEF SUSTAINABILITY OFFICER, OFFICE OF SUSTAINABILITY. 
          HELLO, COMMISSIONERS. 
          I'M ZACH BOMBER WITH THE OFFICE OF SUSTAINABILITY. 
          AND WE HAVE, AND I'M SARAH NORRIS, DIRECTOR OF ENERGY EFFICIENCY SERVICES. 
          WE'RE JUST GONNA GO BACK AND FORTH LIKE THAT ALL NIGHT. 
          , THE WHOLE, THE WHOLE PRESENTATION IS GONNA BE A, A PLAY. 
          UM, NO, ACTUALLY, UH, I'M GONNA KICK OFF THE PRESENTATION AND TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HEAT PUMPS AND TALK ABOUT, UH, A STUDY THAT, UM, THAT WE COMMISSIONED, UH, THAT WAS FUNDED IN THE BUDGET, UH, LAST YEAR'S BUDGET CYCLE. 
          AND THEN, UH, WE COLLABORATED WITH AUSTIN ENERGY ON THIS TOPIC. 
          AND THEN SARAH'S GONNA JUMP IN AND TALK ABOUT AUSTIN ENERGY'S WORK IN THIS AREA. 
          OKAY, SO AS I MENTIONED, I'M GONNA FIRST GO OVER HEAT PUMPS, THE TECHNOLOGY, THE BACKGROUND ON THIS TOPIC. 
          UM, THIS MAY BE A TOPIC THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT IT. 
          ALSO, EVERYBODY MAY LEARN SOMETHING NEW TONIGHT. 
          UM, THEN WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT THIS CONTRACTOR SURVEY AND STUDY THAT WE COMMISSIONED AND THE RESULTS OF THAT STUDY. 
          AND THEN ESSENTIALLY PASS IT OVER TO, UH, TO SARAH WHO'S GONNA TALK ABOUT, UH, THEIR APPROACH, UM, THEIR CURRENT INCENTIVES FOR, FOR HEAT PUMPS AND THIS TECHNOLOGY, AND A ROADMAP FOR WHERE THEY'RE GOING WITH THIS INTO THE FUTURE. 
          OKAY, SO WHERE DOES THIS ALL START? UH, SO WE, THE CITY OF AUSTIN HAS, THE AUSTIN CLIMATE EQUITY PLAN WAS ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL IN SEPTEMBER OF 2021. 
          UH, THAT, UH, THAT PLAN HAS A GOAL OF NET ZERO COMMUNITY-WIDE GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS BY 2040. 
          UH, THERE'S 17 GOALS. 
          THERE'S 75 STRATEGIES IN THAT PLAN. 
          THERE ARE FIVE SECTIONS. 
          ONE OF THE MAJOR SECTIONS IN THIS PLAN IS CALLED SUSTAINABLE BUILDINGS. 
          AND UNDER THAT 
          [00:40:01]
SECTION OF THE PLAN, THERE'S A GOAL TO, BY 23, HAVE A HUNDRED PERCENT OF ALL NEW BUILDINGS. 
          UH, THE NET ZERO, UM, REDUCE EMISSIONS FROM EXISTING BUILDINGS BY 25%, AND THEN ALSO REDUCE NATURAL GAS USAGE BY 30%, UM, NATURAL GAS EMISSIONS IN BUILDINGS BY 2030. 
          UM, SO WITHIN THAT PLAN, UH, WITHIN THAT SECTION OF THE CLIMATE EQUITY PLAN, UH, THERE ARE NUMEROUS GOALS AND STRATEGIES THESE RELATED TO ENERGY EFFICIENCY, ENERGY EFFICIENCY TECHNOLOGIES. 
          UM, AND SO THIS IS WHERE WE GET TO HEAT PUMPS. 
          UH, BUT FIRST, UH, THE EMISSIONS. 
          SO, UH, THE GOAL HERE IS NET ZERO COMMUNITY WIDE EMISSIONS BY 2040. 
          UH, SO MY OFFICE, UM, THE OFFICE OF SUSTAINABILITY CREATES THE AUSTIN COMMUNITY CARBON FOOTPRINT EVERY YEAR. 
          WE'VE DONE THIS FOR, I THINK WE HAVE 12 YEARS OF DATA NOW WHERE WE COLLECT DATA FROM ALL SORTS OF DIFFERENT SOURCES, DO CALCULATIONS, AND COME UP WITH OUR COLLECTIVE CARBON FOOTPRINT FOOTPRINT FOR THE ENTIRE AUSTIN AREA. 
          UM, IN 2021, UH, WE NOW ACTUALLY I THINK HAVE THE 2022 CARBON FOOTPRINT. 
          UM, THAT WAS JUST RECENTLY COMPLETED. 
          WE'RE ALWAYS KIND OF LIKE A YEAR OR TWO BEHIND ON THIS DATA. 
          UH, BUT IN 2021, UH, THE TOTAL EMISSIONS OF ALL THE ACTIVITIES OF, UH, ENERGY USAGE AND BUILDINGS, TRANSPORTATION, UH, INDUSTRY WASTE, UH, ALL OF THE EMISSIONS ALTOGETHER WERE ABOUT 11 MILLION METRIC TONS FOR COLLECTIVELY ALL THOSE ACTIVITIES. 
          UM, AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE'S A SLIVER THERE, UH, FOR NATURAL GAS. 
          SO NINE PER, APPROXIMATELY 9% OF THE EMISSIONS, ABOUT A MILLION TONS PER YEAR COME FROM THE USAGE OF NATURAL GAS IN BUILDINGS. 
          SO THAT'S NOT NATURAL GAS FOR POWER PLANTS. 
          THAT'S NATURAL GAS FOR HEATING WATER SPACE CONDITIONING, COOKING. 
          UM, THE GAS THAT'S USED LIKE IN, UM, IN COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS, UM, OUR ESTIMATE IS THAT ABOUT 50%, UM, OF THAT NATURAL GAS IS USED IN SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. 
          AND THEN ABOUT 50%, UM, OF THOSE EMISSIONS, UH, COME FROM GAS FURNACES. 
          SO IF YOU TAKE HALF AND THEN HALF, ABOUT 2.25%, UM, OF OUR LOCAL GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS FOR THE, THE COMMUNITY, UM, COME FROM GAS THAT'S USED IN NATURAL GAS FURNACES, UH, TO HEAT TO HEAT HOMES. 
          SO THAT'S ABOUT 250,000 METRIC TONS PER YEAR. 
          THAT'S A SIZABLE NUMBER OF TONS PER YEAR. 
          UM, BUT AS YOU CAN SEE, IT'S ACTUALLY, IT'S A SMALL PER PORTION WHEN YOU COMPARE IT TO, TO THE TOTAL EMISSIONS. 
          SO THIS IS WHERE HEAT PUMPS COME IN. 
          UM, TRADITIONAL TRADITIONAL HEATING, UM, YOU KNOW, FOR THE LONGEST TIME WAS DONE IS, WAS DONE WITH, UM, NATURAL GAS FURNACES. 
          UM, THERE ARE LOTS OF WAYS TO HEAT AND SPACE CONDITION BUILDINGS. 
          YOU CAN USE FUEL OIL, YOU CAN USE NATURAL GAS, YOU CAN USE ELECTRIC RESISTANCE. 
          UM, BUT THE NEWEST, NEWEST TECHNOLOGY ON THE SCENE IS HEAT PUMPS. 
          UH, SO HEAT PUMPS ARE, UH, HVC SYSTEMS THAT EFFICIENTLY MOVE HEAT IN AND OUTSIDE OF A HOME. 
          SO THEY ESSENTIALLY, AN AIR CONDITIONER TENDS TO MOVE HEAT ONE DIRECTION, SO IT MOVES HEAT FROM THE INSIDE TO THE OUTSIDE, WHEREAS A HEAT PUMP CAN BE REVERSED. 
          AND SO IT'S ESSENTIALLY ADVANCED HVAC TECHNOLOGY THAT USES COMPRESSORS AND EXPANSION WITH GASES AND CAN ESSENTIALLY TAKE HEAT FROM THE OUTDOORS AND PUSH IT INSIDE TO THE HOUSE. 
          UM, SO IN THE WINTER, UH, SO YOU CAN HAVE ESSENTIALLY ONE PIECE OF EQUIPMENT THAT DURING THE SUMMER, COOLS YOUR HOUSE AND THEN YOU SWITCH IT TO HEAT, AND THEN THE SAME PIECE OF EQUIPMENT WITHOUT USING NATURAL GAS RUNS BACKWARDS, BASICALLY IN REVERSE AND WARMS UP THE HOUSE. 
          UM, SO YOU CAN ESSENTIALLY JUST HAVE ONE SYSTEM INSTEAD OF HAVING MULTIPLE SYSTEMS IN YOUR HOUSE. 
          UM, THERE ARE TWO TYPES. 
          THE FIRST, THE MOST COMMON TYPE THAT YOU SEE ALL OVER THE PLACE ALL OVER AUSTIN HAVE BEEN, UM, ADVANCING A LOT IN THE LAST DECADE ARE DUCTLESS MINI SPLITS. 
          SO WHEN YOU SEE LIKE A GARAGE OR LIKE AN EXTRA AC UNIT THAT'S PUT SOMEWHERE, UM, IT'S LIKE THE THING YOU SEE THERE, IT'S JUST SMALL, IT'S THIN, UM, AND IT'S NOT FORCED AIR INSIDE. 
          THERE'S ESSENTIALLY JUST ONE BLOWER INSIDE THAT IS MAKING COOLING, UM, COOLING AND HEATING FOR A SMALLER SPACE. 
          UM, THERE ARE ALSO, UH, FULL DUCTED SYSTEMS THAT HAVE, UM, THAT CAN ESSENTIALLY JUST REPLACE A FULL, UH, FURNACE AND AIR CONDITIONER SYSTEM IN A HOUSE. 
          UM, AND THE, THE MOST EFFICIENT TYPE OF THESE HEAT PUMPS ARE CALLED VARIABLE SPEED INVERTER BASED HEAT PUMPS. 
          SO THAT'S THE MOST ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY, UM, BENEFITS OF HEAT PUMPS. 
          SO 
          [00:45:01]
THE REAL, THE FIRST BENEFIT IS THE SIMPLICITY, RIGHT? IF YOU JUST HAVE ONE SYSTEM THAT DOES THE HEATING AND COOLING, YOU DON'T HAVE GAS LINES IN YOUR HOUSE, UM, YOU DON'T HAVE HEATING EXHAUST, YOU DON'T HAVE TWO SYSTEMS ESSENTIALLY RUNNING, UM, YOU JUST HAVE ONE THING THAT'S SIMPLER. 
          UM, IT CAN, THAT CAN CREATE CONSISTENT ALL SEASON HEATING AND COOLING. 
          SO YOU ESSENTIALLY DON'T GET AS HOT OF AIR COMING OUT OF A HEAT PUMP. 
          YOU GET A MORE CONSISTENT TEMPERATURE THAT THAT RUNS WHEN IT CREATES HEAT. 
          UM, ALONG WITH THE COOLING, THERE'S A POTENTIAL FOR IMPROVED INDOOR AIR QUALITY. 
          UM, IF YOU'RE NOT BURNING GAS IN YOUR HOUSE, GAS, UM, AND GAS EMISSIONS ARE OBVIOUSLY SUPPOSED TO BE VENTED AND EXHAUSTED OUT OF YOUR HOUSE FOR SAFETY REASONS. 
          UM, BUT IF YOU DON'T HAVE THOSE THINGS AT ALL IN YOUR HOUSE, YOU JUST AVOID THAT EMISSION SOURCE. 
          UM, THERE'S POTENTIALLY LOWER BILLS IF YOU'RE SWITCHING FROM ELECTRIC RESISTANCE, HEATING. 
          UM, ELECTRIC RESISTANCE HEATING DURING THE WINTER CAN CREATE VERY HIGH ELECTRIC BILLS. 
          UM, AND HEAT PUMPS ARE MUCH MORE EFFICIENT AT DOING HEATING. 
          UM, AND THEN FINALLY, AND THIS IS WHERE REALLY THE CARBON EMISSIONS FIT INTO THIS, IS THAT, UM, AS WE, UH, RAPIDLY ARE INCREASING THE AMOUNT OF RENEWABLE ENERGY ON OUR GRID, IF YOU'RE USING RENEWABLE ENERGY TO RUN A HEAT PUMP TO ESSENTIALLY HEAT YOUR HOME IN THE WINTER, UM, THAT CAN BE MUCH LESS CARBON INTENSIVE AND WE CAN REALLY REDUCE THOSE EMISSIONS, UM, OF NATURAL GAS USAGE FOR HEATING BUILDINGS. 
          BUT, UM, THEY'RE NOT A SILVER BULLET, RIGHT? EVERY TECHNOLOGY HAS PROS AND CONS, UM, IN OUR, SO IT'S NOT GONNA BE, IT'S NOT LIKE THIS IS JUST A ONE-TO-ONE SWITCH. 
          WE HAVE MANY, UM, NEW BUILDINGS, EXISTING BUILDINGS THAT HAVE, UM, THAT USE NATURAL GAS FOR HEATING. 
          AND THIS ISN'T JUST AN EASY OVERNIGHT SWITCH. 
          UM, SO SWITCHING OUT HEAT PUMPS, UM, THE COSTS ARE GONNA VARY. 
          A LOT OF TIMES THERE'S GONNA BE ADDITIONAL ELECTRICAL COST TO UPGRADE ELECTRICAL SYSTEMS IN A HOUSE. 
          UM, UM, BECAUSE THIS IS NEW TECHNOLOGY, THE HEAT PUMP, UH, EQUIPMENT RIGHT NOW CAN BE MORE EXPENSIVE THAN JUST A REGULAR AIR CONDITIONER AND OR A FURNACE. 
          UM, SO WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE COST THERE. 
          UM, IF YOU HAVE A HOUSE THAT'S ALSO, UH, CURRENTLY HAS, SAY A LOW GAS BILL AND A GENERALLY LOW ELECTRICITY BILL, IF YOU ALL OF A SUDDEN SWITCH OFF OF GAS, YOU MAY HAVE HIGHER ELECTRIC BILLS IN THE WINTER, RIGHT? YOU MAY HAVE A LOWER GAS BILL, BUT, UH, THE PERCEPTION AND THE ACTUAL LIKE REALITY OF THE COST SAVINGS MAY BE SORT OF, UM, UH, WASHED OUT WITH SOME OF THE CHANGES. 
          UM, ALSO, UM, THERE'S BEEN KIND OF THE QUESTION ALL ALONG ABOUT THE LOCAL HVAC CONTRACTING, UM, AND CONTRACTORS, RIGHT? UM, AND THIS IS BECAUSE WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT PARTICULARLY THE RESIDENTIAL, SINGLE FAMILY AND MULTIFAMILY MARKET, WHEN WE'RE BUILDING NEW BUILDINGS, UM, WE CAN APPLY NEW ENERGY CODES, WE CAN BUILD THE BUILDINGS, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT GAS TO BEGIN WITH, AND THERE'S A SIMPLE SORT OF, UH, PAYBACK THERE. 
          UM, BUT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RETROFITTING BUILDINGS, THINGS GET A LOT MORE COMPLICATED. 
          UM, AND THEY GET PARTICULARLY MORE COMPLICATED BECAUSE MANY TIMES PEOPLE ARE MAKING THESE DECISIONS ABOUT SWITCHING THEIR WHOLE HVAC SYSTEM, UM, DURING SORT OF TIMES OF DURESS, RIGHT? YOUR FURNACE GOES OUT IN THE WINTER, IT'S COLD, YOU NEED TO GET IT FIXED, YOU CALL AN HVAC CONTRACTOR, AND YOUR DECISION IS SORT OF IN, YOU'RE IN THIS DECISION PROCESS WITH THE CONTRACTOR RIGHT THEN. 
          UM, SO WE THOUGHT IT WAS REALLY IMPORTANT TO, UH, REACH OUT TO CONTRACTORS AND DO THIS HVAC CONTRACTOR STUDY, ESSENTIALLY, TO, TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT ARE THE BARRIERS, WHAT ARE THE COSTS, WHAT ARE THE REBATES? LIKE, WHAT IS THE CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE WHEN IT COMES TO HEAT PUMPS? SO WE CAN TRY TO ADDRESS THOSE THINGS AND TRY TO GET, UM, POTENTIALLY MORE RETROFITS, UM, IN EXISTING BUILDINGS TO, TO HEAT PUMPS. 
          UM, JUST REAL QUICKLY ON THE NEW BUILDINGS, AS I MENTIONED, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF ANALYSIS ABOUT THIS DONE NATIONWIDE. 
          THIS IS A STUDY FROM THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN INSTITUTE THAT ACTUALLY LOOKED AT OUR SPECIFIC, UM, CLIMATE ZONE RELATED TO HEAT PUMPS. 
          AS YOU CAN IMAGINE WITH THE CONVERSATION ABOUT HEATING IN THE WINTER, UM, WHERE YOU ARE IN THE COUNTRY MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE, RIGHT? IF YOU'RE IN NEW YORK, IF YOU'RE IN CHICAGO, YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE VERY HIGH NEEDS FOR HEATING. 
          IT'S VERY COLD. 
          UM, BUT HERE WE DON'T HAVE, UM, HAVE AS MUCH OF A NEED FOR HEATING. 
          UM, SO THIS ANALYSIS WAS DONE. 
          UM, THERE'S A FULL REPORT ON THIS. 
          I'M NOT GONNA GO INTO THE DETAILS, BUT THEY ESSENTIALLY DID THE MATH AND SAID, IF YOU PLAN UP FRONT FOR A NEW HOME TO BE ALL ELECTRIC AND USE HEAT PUMPS, YOU CAN SAVE MONEY UP FRONT. 
          YOU CAN SAVE MONEY OVER A 15 YEAR LIFETIME. 
          UM, AND YOU CAN 
          [00:50:01]
HAVE DRAMATICALLY LOWER GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS. 
          SO IT'S KIND OF A SLAM DUNK FOR, UH, FOR NEW BUILDINGS, UM, FOR RETROFITS. 
          THIS IS WHERE IT GETS COMPLICATED. 
          UM, SO WE JUST SORT OF GENERALLY PAINTED TWO DIFFERENT SCENARIOS HERE. 
          SO THE SCENARIO ON THE LEFT IS YOU LIVE IN A HOUSE, IT HAS A GAS FURNACE, IT HAS AN AC UNIT, AND, UH, THE SYSTEM BREAKS FOR SOME REASON AND YOU WANT TO TRANSITION TO A HEAT PUMP. 
          SO, UM, THE SORT OF GENERAL, GENERAL FINDINGS BASED ON ANALYSIS AND THE INTERVIEWS AND THE INFORMATION THAT WAS FROM THE STUDY ARE THAT, UH, FOR A SIMILAR EFFICIENCY UNIT, THERE'S COMPARABLE, UM, THERE'S COMPARABLE PRICE, LIKELY SOME PRICE DIFFERENCE, UM, FOR A SIMILAR EFFICIENCY UNIT OF, UM, THE HEAT PUMP VERSUS THE GAS AND AC SYSTEM. 
          UM, BUT IT'S LIKELY THAT, UH, YOU MIGHT HAVE TO DO AN ELECTRIC PANEL UPGRADE. 
          YOU MIGHT SAVE, UM, SOME MONEY OVER THE YEARS, UM, OVER THE FULL YEAR BASED ON LIKE WHAT THE WINTER TEMPERATURES ARE. 
          UM, BUT YOU'RE DEFINITELY GONNA REDUCE EMISSIONS. 
          SO IF YOU'RE SWITCHING FROM GAS TO FULL ELECTRIC, I THINK THE SORT OF ANALYSIS AND SORT OF THE TAKE ON THIS NOW IS THAT IT MAY COST MORE MONEY, UM, BUT YOU'RE GONNA REDUCE EMISSIONS. 
          UM, AND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S KIND OF UP TO CUSTOMERS WHETHER THEY'RE GONNA MAKE THAT CHOICE. 
          UM, ON THE OTHER SIDE IS ELECTRIC RESISTANCE. 
          SO THERE IS A LOT OF HOUSING IN THE CITY THAT HAS ELECTRIC RESISTANCE HEATING. 
          MUCH OF THAT IS MULTIFAMILY HOUSING, OLDER MULTIFAMILY HOUSING. 
          UM, THIS IS MUCH MORE OF A SLAM DOCK. 
          UM, ELECTRICAL UPGRADES ARE LESS LIKELY IN THIS SCENARIOS. 
          UH, THE HEAT PUMP IS MUCH MORE EFFICIENT IN THE WINTER THAN ELECTRIC RESISTING THAN ELECTRIC RESISTANCE. 
          SO THERE'S GONNA BE MONEY SAVED. 
          UM, IT'S A, THIS SORT OF AN EASY, UM, AN EASY CHANGE. 
          THIS IS KIND OF AN IDEAL TARGET FOR THIS. 
          SO THE HEAT PUMP STUDY. 
          SO, UM, IN LAST YEAR'S BUDGET CYCLE, THE JOINT SUSTAINABILITY COMMITTEE ACTUALLY ADVOCATED, UM, IN THE BUDGET PROCESS TO GET MONEY ALLOCATED FOR THIS HEAT PUMP STUDY. 
          OFFICE OF SUSTAINABILITY GOT $50,000. 
          UH, WE CONTRACTED, WE DID A INVITATION FOR QUOTE PROCESS. 
          UH, WE HIRED TERRA ILLUMINA CONSULTING ESSENTIALLY TO DO THIS STUDY, GO OUT TO HVAC CONTRACTORS AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS THE CURRENT STATE OF THE TECHNOLOGY, THE COSTS, THE MARKET, ARE THEY BEING OFFERED? HOW IS THIS WORKING? HOW ARE THE CONVERSATIONS GOING? UM, UH, SO IN THE STUDY, UH, THEY WENT OUT AND THEY DID 10 INTERVIEWS WITH 10 DIFFERENT HVAC CONTRACTING COMPANIES. 
          THEY DID A SURVEY, THEY GOT ABOUT 30 RESULTS FROM THE SURVEY, AND THEN THEY DID TWO, UM, TWO FOCUS GROUPS ESSENTIALLY TO GET CONTRACTORS TO TALK TO EACH OTHER AND SHARE INFORMATION ON THIS. 
          UM, THE CONTRACTOR ALSO DID, UH, BEST PRACTICE RESEARCH AND HAS BASICALLY COME BACK WITH, UM, THIS FULL STUDY, UM, ON THIS. 
          SO, UH, WE'LL ACTUALLY ADD THE STUDY TO, UH, THE BACKUP, UM, FOR TONIGHT'S MEETING SO YOU GUYS CAN SEE ALL THE RESULTS. 
          I JUST WANNA ASK, UH, THEY GOT PRICE, LOCAL PRICES. 
          THE CONTRACTOR THAT YOU HIRED GOT LOCAL PRICES FROM CONTRACTORS. 
          THEY GOT SOME PRICE DATA. 
          MOST OF THE RESEARCH WAS ACTUALLY ON, UH, PERCEPTIONS AND, UM, AND QUESTIONS ABOUT THE TECHNOLOGY. 
          THEY WEREN'T AS MUCH ON LIKE SPECIFIC COSTS, UM, BUT I THINK THERE WERE SOME, THERE WERE SOME COSTS. 
          I WILL SHARE THE WHOLE STUDY WITH YOU SO YOU CAN, YOU CAN SEE ALL THE DETAILS FROM IT. 
          UH, SO SOME KEY RESULTS OF THE STUDY. 
          SO OVER 75% OF THE SURVEY RESPONDENTS, SO THESE ARE HVC CONTRACTORS INDICATED THAT LEAST 15% OF THE NEW, UH, AND REPLACEMENT HV SYSTEMS THAT THEY'RE CURRENTLY PUTTING IN ARE HEAT PUMPS. 
          SO WE ARE GETTING SOME SORT OF NATURAL, UM, NATURAL MARKET SORT OF ADOPTION, BUT 15% IS STILL PRETTY LOW. 
          UM, 88% OF THE CONTRACTORS REPORTED THAT CUSTOMERS ARE SATISFIED WITH HEAT PUMPS WHEN THEY PAY FOR 'EM AND THEY GET 'EM INSTALLED. 
          THEY WORK. 
          UM, CONTRACTORS CONFIRM THAT THE COST IS THE BIGGEST BARRIER TO RESIDENTIAL HEAT PUMP REDEMPTION RIGHT NOW IS THAT WHEN THEY PRESENT THE OPTIONS OF A HEAT PUMP VERSUS JUST A REGULAR REPLACEMENT, IT TENDS TO, TENDS TO COST MORE, UH, FOR THE HEAT PUMP AT THE MOMENT. 
          UM, AND THEN 75% OF THE RESPONDENTS REPORTED THAT AE REBATES MAKE THEM MORE LIKELY TO ENCOURAGE CUSTOMERS TO CHOOSE HEAT PUMPS. 
          SO IF THEY CAN OFFER THE REBATES AND ARE IN THAT CONNECTION WITH AUSTIN ENERGY, THAT HELPS. 
          OKAY, SO AS SEE, UM, 
          [00:55:01]
IN THE FULL STUDY WHEN WE SHARE IT WITH YOU, UM, THE STUDY WAS ESSENTIALLY BROKEN DOWN INTO CHALLENGES AND THEN RECOMMENDATIONS TO ADDRESS THE CHALLENGES. 
          SO AS YOU CAN SEE HERE ON THE LEFT, THESE ARE THE CHALLENGES THAT WERE IDENTIFIED BY THE CONTRACTORS. 
          SO, UM, CONTRACTORS IDENTIFIED HIGHER UPFRONT COST AS A CHALLENGE. 
          SO THE RECOMMENDATION FROM IN THE STUDY IS THAT THE, THAT, UH, AUSTIN ENERGY INCREASE AND MODIFY INCENTIVES, UH, THAT WE PROVIDE UNBIASED COST BENEFIT INFORMATION. 
          'CAUSE THIS CAN BE A LITTLE BIT COMPLICATED. 
          UM, WE MIGHT WANNA LOOK AT BULK PURCHASING DISCOUNTS FOR, UM, BULK PURCHASING, LOTS OF THE NEW TECHNOLOGY TO MAYBE BRING DOWN THE COST, UM, AND THEN POTENTIALLY REQUIRE 200 AMP PANEL SIZING FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION OF MAJOR RENOVATIONS. 
          UM, BECAUSE WHEN YOU HAVE AN ALL ELECTRIC HOUSEHOLD, YOU NEED, UH, TYPICALLY HIGHER ELECTRIC SERVICE, UM, LONGER SALES CYCLE. 
          UM, THE CONTRACTORS NOTED THAT WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO SELL SOMETHING NEW THAT A CUSTOMER DOESN'T TYPICALLY UNDERSTAND AND OR YOU NEED TO DO ELECTRICAL UPGRADES TO A HOUSE, THAT IT CAN TAKE MULTIPLE DAYS AND OR WEEKS TO SELL ONE OF THESE SYSTEMS. UM, AND A CONTRACTOR LIKES IT BETTER IF THEY GO TO SOMEBODY'S HOUSE, THEY WANNA BUY SOMETHING AND THE NEXT DAY THEY'RE INSTALLING IT. 
          UM, SO ANY WAY THAT WE CAN CUT THIS DOWN IS A BENEFIT. 
          SO MORE EDUCATION, MORE MARKETING, MORE MARKETING, UM, SUPPORT TO CUSTOMERS AS WELL AS HVA COC CONTRACTORS. 
          SO THEY HAVE MORE INFORMATION ON THIS. 
          UM, AND THEN THE PANEL SIZING REQUIREMENT CAN ALSO HELP WITH THAT BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE TO STOP AND DO AN ELECTRICAL UPGRADE OR UPSIZE THE PANEL, IT JUST DRAGS OUT THIS PROCESS. 
          UM, THERE ARE A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT COLD TEMPERATURE PERFORMANCE. 
          SO THIS IS, UH, THE QUESTION OF CAN A HEAT PUMP ACTUALLY PULL HEAT FROM THE OUTDOORS WHEN IT IS BELOW 40, BELOW 30, BELOW 20? UM, AND BASICALLY THE ADVANCEMENT IN THIS TECHNOLOGY IN THE LAST 10 TO 15 YEARS HAS CREATED NOW HEAT PUMPS THAT ACTUALLY DO WORK AT VERY LOW TEMPERATURES. 
          UM, AND SO REQUIRING INVERTER BASED MODELS WITH VERY VARIABLE SPEED MOTORS CAN ACTUALLY MAKE IT. 
          SO THIS TECHNOLOGY REALLY DOES WORK IN AUSTIN, UM, EVEN THOUGH IT DOESN'T REALLY GET THAT COLD HERE. 
          UM, SO PROVIDING MORE INFORMATION AROUND COLD TEMPERATURE PERFORMANCE AND MAKING PEOPLE NOT AFRAID OF THESE THINGS. 
          UM, UH, LIMITED CONTRACTOR EXPERIENCE WITH ELECTRICAL UPGRADES. 
          SO, UM, PROVIDING MORE RESEARCH RESOURCES TO HVA CONTRACT, HVAC CONTRACTORS AROUND THIS. 
          UM, BECAUSE HVAC CONTRACTORS DON'T TYPICALLY DO THE ELECTRICAL UPGRADES. 
          SO IF THEY HAVE INFORMATION ON WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE AND HOW THEY CAN CONNECT WITH, UM, ELECTRICIANS THAT CAN MAKE THIS PROCESS SIMPLER. 
          UM, AND THEN FINALLY THERE IS SOME CONTRACTOR RESISTANCE TO ADOPTION, RIGHT? IT'S A NEW TECHNOLOGY. 
          LIKE ANYTHING CHANGES ISN'T ALWAYS EASY. 
          UM, AND HVAC CONTRACTORS TEND TO BE SORT OF, YOU KNOW, CONSERVATIVE AND WANNA RECOMMEND THINGS THAT THEY KNOW THAT ARE GONNA WORK FOR THEIR CUSTOMERS. 
          SO THE MORE THAT WE CAN INCREASE THE POSITIVE MESSAGING, UM, THE BETTER ON THIS. 
          UH, THE FINAL RECOMMENDATIONS HERE WERE FOR MULTIFAMILY PROPERTIES. 
          AS WE KNOW, MULTIFAMILY IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT FROM SINGLE FAMILY, RIGHT? YOU HAVE A, UM, A LARGER BUILDING OWNER IN THIS SITUATION. 
          YOU HAVE A SPLIT INCENTIVE. 
          UM, SO THERE CAN BE HIGHER MAINTENANCE COSTS, UM, WITH, UH, HEAT PUMPS, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU HAVE LOTS OF HEAT PUMPS ACROSS A GIANT BUILDING. 
          UM, SO POTENTIALLY, UH, OFFERING FUNDRAISING PORT SUPPORT FOR AFFORDING FULL HOUSING PROVIDERS. 
          UM, THIS RECOMMENDATION ACTUALLY CAME BECAUSE FOUNDATION COMMUNITIES HAS BEEN AN EARLY ADOPTER OF, UM, OF HEAT PUMPS AND, UM, THAT IS SPECIFIC TO THEM. 
          UM, INCENTIVE DESIGN, MAKING SURE THAT, UH, THE REBATES FOR A MULTI-FAMILY SORT OF MATCH AND, UM, AND WORK FOR THEM. 
          UH, AND THEN LACK OF MAINTENANCE STAFF TRAINING. 
          UM, AS WITH ALL SORT OF NEW TECHNOLOGY, NOT ALL STAFF ARE ARE TRAINED ON THIS. 
          SO, UM, BULKING UP THAT CONNECTION WITH, UM, WITH CONTRACTORS TO GET THEM THE BEST INFORMATION WE'LL HELP. 
          SO I'M GONNA HAND IT OVER TO SARAH NOW, AND SARAH IS GONNA TALK ABOUT, UH, WHAT AUSTIN ENERGY CURRENTLY OFFERS ON HEAT PUMPS AND WHERE THEY'RE GOING WITH THIS NEXT. 
          ALL RIGHTY, THANK YOU ZACH. 
          SO MINE IS QUITE A BIT SHORTER, BUT UH, I DO WANNA SHARE WITH YOU JUST BEFORE WE DIVE IN THAT I RECENTLY WENT THROUGH OUR HOME ENERGY SAVINGS PROGRAM AND CONVERTED TO A HEAT PUMP IN MY HOUSE. 
          SO I'M VERY FAMILIAR NOW WITH THE FULL SALES CYCLE AND SOME OF THE CHALLENGES THAT, UM, PEOPLE IN SINGLE FAMILY HOMES MIGHT FACE. 
          AND IT HAS DEFINITELY INFORMED THE PRIORITIES THAT WE HAVE IN OUR PROGRAM DESIGN, AMONG OTHER THINGS. 
          SO I'M HAPPY TO SHARE THE PROS AND CONS OF MY EXPERIENCE WITH IT AND HOW I THINK THAT THAT CONNECTS IN WITH THE BROADER, UH, PROGRAM ECOSYSTEM IN THE Q AND A. 
          BUT 
          [01:00:02]
I WANNA START BY SAYING THIS HAS BEEN SUCH A GREAT COLLABORATION WITH THE OFFICE OF SUSTAINABILITY. 
          THEY REALLY BROUGHT US IN FROM THE VERY BEGINNING, AND IT'S ALLOWED US TO ALREADY START TAKING ACTION ON A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT CAME OUT AS RECOMMENDATIONS. 
          AND SO WE FEEL VERY FORTUNATE TO BE LOOPED IN AS A PARTNER IN THIS, UM, BECAUSE IT HAS ESSENTIALLY MEANT THAT WE'RE NOT BEHIND THE EIGHT BALL, WE'RE KIND OF COMING UP WITH THE SOLUTIONS AND IMPLEMENTING THEM TOGETHER. 
          UM, SO I WILL TELL YOU THAT TODAY WE ALREADY HAVE SEVERAL TYPES OF INCENTIVES AVAILABLE FOR HEAT PUMPS. 
          SO FOR AN EQUIPMENT ONLY SYSTEM IN A RESIDENTIAL HOUSEHOLD, YOU COULD GET 400 TO $750 PER SYSTEM. 
          THIS SHOULD BE NOTED THAT THAT'S IN ADDITION TO THE FEDERAL TAX CREDIT OF $2,000. 
          UM, FOR MULTIFAMILY, WE, FOR MULTIFAMILY AND COMMERCIAL, WE STRUCTURE IT A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY BECAUSE IT'S BASED ON THE TONNAGE OF THE, OF THE HVAC SYSTEMS. UM, BUT YOU CAN KIND OF SEE HOW THESE PLAY OUT HERE. 
          ONE THING THAT I WANNA CALL OUT IN PARTICULAR ABOUT RESIDENTIAL IS IN MY 18 MONTHS OR SO IN THIS POSITION AT AUSTIN ENERGY, I'VE REALLY, REALLY COME TO UNDERSTAND AND BOUGHT INTO THIS, THIS POINT THAT, UM, OUR HOUSES ARE NOT, OUR BUILDINGS ARE NOT JUST A COMBINATION OF APPLIANCES, RIGHT? THERE ARE WHOLE BUILDING SYSTEMS AND THE BEST POSSIBLE OUTCOME FOR OUR CUSTOMERS IS TO THINK ABOUT THE SYSTEMS HOLISTICALLY, UM, AND INCLUDE OTHER TYPES OF ENERGY EFFICIENCY WHEN THEY'RE INSTALLING HEAT PUMPS. 
          SO THAT IS PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT WHEN WE REFLECT ON SOME OF THE HISTORICAL CHALLENGES THAT HEAT PUMPS HAVE HAD. 
          HEAT PUMPS OPERATE BETTER WHEN YOU HAVE A TIGHTER BUILDING ENVELOPE. 
          AND SO THAT'S WHY WE REALLY TRY TO ENCOURAGE FOLKS TO GO THROUGH OUR WHOLE HOME PROGRAMS. THAT'S WHY YOU'LL SEE THAT THE INCENTIVE SIZING IS A LITTLE BIT HIGHER THERE. 
          SO IF YOU'RE GOING AHEAD AND DOING YOUR WEATHERIZATION WHILE YOU GET YOUR HVAC SYSTEM, WE GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT MORE MONEY TO DRIVE YOU IN IN THAT DIRECTION. 
          UM, SO IN ADDITION TO THAT, UM, AND AGAIN, INSPIRED BY SOME OF THE WORK DONE BY ZACH'S GROUP THIS YEAR, WE'VE HOSTED SEVERAL HVAC AND BUILDING PERFORMANCE CONTRACTOR TRAINING SPECIFICALLY AROUND HEAT PUMPS. 
          AND THOSE ARE SERIES THAT WE WANT TO KIND OF KEEP GOING BECAUSE AS NOTED BY ZACH, WE UNDERSTAND THAT ONE OF, OF THE BIG GAPS IS JUST AN EDUCATION GAP. 
          UM, WE ALSO HAVE, UM, STRUCTURES FOR PROVIDING REIMBURSEMENT FOR CONTRACTORS FOR THEM TO TRAIN THEIR, THEIR FIELD STAFF AND PURCHASE NEW EQUIPMENT. 
          AND, UM, WE HAVE BEEN PILOTING NEW CONSTRUCTION INCENTIVES SPECIFICALLY FOR HEAT PUMP HOT WATER HEATERS. 
          UM, AND THEN WE DO, ONE OF THE MAIN THINGS THAT WE DO IN OUR DEPARTMENT IS WE EVALUATE OUR INCENTIVE STRUCTURES EVERY YEAR. 
          AND SO WE TRY TO DO IT IN AS ANALYTICAL OF A WAY AS WE CAN. 
          AND SO ALIGNING OUR INCENTIVES TO THE ACTUAL MEGAWATT SAVINGS OR MAYBE DEPENDING ON WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE GEN PLAN, THE GREENHOUSE GAS AVOIDANCE, UM, THAT THAT IS SORT OF HOW WE THINK ABOUT UPDATING THESE, THESE CO THESE INCENTIVE SIZING NUMBERS. 
          SO, UM, AS NOTED, UH, WE ARE COMMITTED TO SORT OF SOCIALIZING SOME OF THAT INFORMATION. 
          WE WOULD LIKE TO SHARE WITH OUR CUSTOMERS MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE COST OF THE POTENTIAL COST EFFECTIVENESS OF, OF THESE SYSTEMS. SOME QUICK BACK OF THE ENVELOPE, UM, CALCULATIONS INDICATE THAT YOU COULD DO A FULL PAYOFF OF AN, OF A, THAT YOU WOULD GET A FULL ROI ON THE DELTA BETWEEN YOUR TWO SYSTEMS FOR YOUR, FOR A HEAT PUMP SYSTEM OVER A TRADITIONAL HVAC SYSTEM IN ABOUT 12 YEARS, WHICH IS LESS THAN THE LOAN TERM, THE, THE LOW INTEREST LOAN TERM ON OUR WHOLE HOME EFFICIENCY UPGRADE SYSTEMS, UH, SORRY, PROGRAM, UM, PROJECTS. 
          SO JUST TO KIND OF GIVE YOU GUYS AN IDEA, IF WE HOPE TO SOCIALIZE THOSE TYPES OF CALCULATORS TO HELP CUSTOMERS MAKE THIS DECISION AND UNDERSTAND THAT CONTRACTORS ARE NOT JUST TRYING TO UPSELL THEM, WHICH I THINK IS A BIG BARRIER, UM, THE INCREASED ELECTRIC LOAD IS SOMETHING THAT WE DO NEED TO QUANTIFY. 
          UM, AT PRESENT IT IS ELECTRIC POWER COSTS ARE NOT AT PARODY FOR HEATING WITH NATURAL GAS. 
          AND SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE DO HAVE TO CONSIDER. 
          IN PARTICULAR, IF WE'RE PUSHING THESE ON FOLKS WHO MAY HAVE A HIGHER ENERGY BURDEN, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE WANNA CONTINUE TO BE MINDFUL OF. 
          AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE CERTAINLY WANNA ENCOURAGE ADOPTION, BUT WE ALSO WANNA BE MINDFUL ABOUT PUTTING PEOPLE IN SITUATIONS WHERE THEY MAY HAVE HIGHER BILLS 'CAUSE THEY'RE NOT USED TO HAVING A LARGE WINTER ELECTRIC BILL. 
          UM, AND THEN AS I NOTED A MOMENT AGO, UH, ONE OF THE BIG WINS FOR, IN PARTICULAR ALL ELECTRIC HEAT PUMPS WOULD BE A TRANSITION, UM, IN OUR GOAL STRUCTURE TO BEING MORE GREENHOUSE GAS FOCUSED RATHER THAN 
          [01:05:01]
SPECIFICALLY MEGAWATT FOCUSED BECAUSE, UM, I'M SURE YOU CAN BASICALLY UNDERSTAND THAT IF YOU TRANSITION YOUR HEATING LOAD FROM A GAS-BASED HEATING LOAD TO AN ELECTRIC BASED HEATING LOAD, THAT DRIVES OUR MEGAWATTS UP NOT DOWN. 
          SO IT'S HARD FOR US TO STRUCTURE INCENTIVES THAT ARE APPROPRIATELY SIZED IF WE'RE NOT ACTUALLY SAVING MEGAWATTS, WHICH IS OUR MANDATE ACCORDING TO THE GEN PLAN. 
          SO WE'VE PROPOSED TRANSITIONING TO A GREENHOUSE GAS AVOIDANCE METRIC RATHER THAN A MEGAWATTS METRIC. 
          YOU'LL HEAR MORE ABOUT THAT IN LISA'S PRESENTATION. 
          UM, AND THEN, UH, AS NOTED, WE, UM, STRIVE TO ALWAYS, UH, CONSIDER EQUITY IN ALL OF OUR PROGRAM DESIGN. 
          AND SO IT'S IMPORTANT TO US TO NOT OVER INCENTIVIZE THE, UM, PROGRAMS THAT ARE GOING TO MOSTLY TARGET FOLKS WHO, UM, ARE ALREADY FAIRLY WELL OFF. 
          WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT OUR PROGRAMS ARE PROVIDING EQUAL, UH, BENEFIT TO ALL OF OUR CONSTITUENTS. 
          OH, THERE WE GO. 
          UM, SO WHAT I WILL SAY IS, I THINK, AS I NOTED, THIS HAS BEEN REALLY ILLUMINATING WORKING WITH THE OFFICE OF SUSTAINABILITY AND HEARING KIND OF THIS COHESIVE MESSAGE ABOUT HEAT PUMPS. 
          SO WE HAVE SORT OF THREE CATEGORIES THAT WE'RE GONNA GO AFTER. 
          THE FIRST ONE, WE'RE GONNA WORK VERY CLOSELY WITH THE OFFICE OF SUSTAINABILITY TO, UM, COMMUNICATE THE, THE COST BENEFITS AND THE, THE OTHER BENEFITS OF TRANSITIONING TO HEAT PUMPS TO CUSTOMERS. 
          WE THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE WORK WITH THE OFFICE OF SUSTAINABILITY ON THAT, BECAUSE AS THE ENERGY COMPANY OR THE ELECTRIC COMPANY, WE WANNA BE MINDFUL THAT WE ARE NOT POSITIONING OURSELVES AS TRYING TO HAWK THINGS THAT ARE GOING TO MAKE THEIR, THEIR BILLS WITH US HIGHER. 
          YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO HAVE KIND OF THE NEUTRALITY THAT THE OFFICE OF SUSTAINABILITY BRINGS TO COMMUNICATE THE BENEFIT TO CUSTOMERS. 
          BUT ONE OF THE STRENGTHS OF OUR PROGRAMS IS THAT WE HAVE AN INCREDIBLY CLOSE RELATIONSHIP WITH OUR CONTRACTORS. 
          WE JUST HAD A HUGE CONTRACTOR MEETING TODAY WITH ALL OF OUR COMMERCIAL AND MULTIFAMILY CONTRACTORS AND YOU KNOW, THEY ARE VERY ENGAGED WITH US AND THEY'RE OFTEN OUR PORTAL TO THE CUSTOMERS. 
          AND SO PROVIDING EDUCATION AND TOOLS FOR THEM TO COMMUNICATE THE BENEFITS OF HEAT PUMPS AND SHORTEN THAT SALES CYCLE IS SOMETHING THAT WE ARE COMMITTED TO, AND THAT WE'VE ALREADY STARTED DOING. 
          UM, WE ALSO CREATE A LOT OF NOT NETWORKING OPPORTUNITIES FOR OUR CONTRACTORS. 
          SO, AS ZACH ALLUDED TO, ONE OF THE BIG CHALLENGES, AND I CAN SHARE MY OWN EXPERIENCE WITH THIS, IS THAT, UM, WHEN I HAD MY HEAT PUMP PUT IN, UM, I WENT THROUGH OUR WHOLE HOME PROGRAM, BUT WE HAD TO DO A LOT OF ELECTRICAL WORK AND MY HVAC CONTRACTOR COULD NOT DO THAT ELECTRICAL WORK. 
          SO FORTUNATELY, BOTH MY HUSBAND AND I ARE ENGINEERS, SO WE DID A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, RUNNING THE CABLES OURSELVES AND THEN HAD A, YOU KNOW, AN ELECTRICIAN COME IN AND HELP US WITH THE PANEL UPGRADE. 
          BUT THAT WAS A SEPARATE COST AND A SEPARATE CONTRACTOR THAT WE HAD TO DEAL WITH. 
          AND I WOULD JUST NOTE THAT FOR FOLKS WHO MAY NOT BE AS SAVVY OR INTERESTED IN DOING THEIR DIY PROJECTS AT THEIR HOUSE AS MY FAMILY IS, UM, THAT COULD BE A REAL BARRIER FOR ADOPTION. 
          AND SO CREATING, UM, NETWORKING OPPORTUNITIES AND ALLIANCES LIKE REFERRAL ALLIANCES WITH OUR CONTRACTORS, SO THAT THAT'S A MORE SEAMLESS EXPERIENCE FOR THE CUSTOMER IS, IS ONE OF THE THINGS IN OUR ROADMAP. 
          UM, FINALLY, AS I MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, WE THINK WE SPEND MOST OF OUR TIME THINKING ABOUT PROGRAM DE DESIGN AND RIGHT SIZING INCENTIVES. 
          AND THERE'S SORT OF TWO WAYS TO THINK ABOUT INCENTIVES. 
          I'M NOT GONNA SPEND A WHOLE LOT OF TIME ON THIS, BUT YOU COULD THINK ABOUT INCENTIVES AS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THEM IS TO CLOSE THE GAP TO CREATE MAR THE COST GAP TO CREATE MARKET TRANSFORMATION. 
          OR YOU COULD THINK ABOUT THAT YOU NEED TO ALIGN THE INCENTIVE TO THE OUTCOME. 
          AND I USED TO WORK IN SOLAR. 
          IN SOLAR, I THINK IT'S MUCH MORE COMMON TO THINK ABOUT THE ROLE OF INCENTIVES BEING ABOUT CLOSING THE COST GAP IN ENERGY EFFICIENCY BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF TECHNOLOGIES. 
          IT IS, I THINK, PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT TO ALIGN INCENTIVES TO OUTCOMES. 
          AND SO WE'VE REALLY TRIED TO FOCUS ON SIZING THE INCENTIVES ACCORDING TO THE EFFICIENCY THAT THE, UM, PRODUCT WILL PROVIDE. 
          SO, UM, SO THAT CONTINUES TO BE OUR FOCUS AND WE'RE BRINGING IN A DEDICATED CONTRACT TO DO THAT IN THE COMING YEAR, UM, FOR REPORTING AND EVALUATION TO ADD AN EVEN MORE ROBUST LAYER TO OUR INCENTIVE STRUCTURE. 
          SO, UM, A FEW OTHER THINGS I THINK MENTIONED KIND OF HERE AT THE BOTTOM IS WE'RE ALSO CONSIDERING PROGRAMS THAT WOULD, UM, ALLOW TO, TO SUPPORT CUSTOMERS ON ELECTRICAL UPGRADES. 
          THERE'S SOME QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THAT WOULD PASS 
          [01:10:01]
MUSTER WITH THE LEGISLATURE. 
          SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO WORK THROUGH WITH OUR LEGAL GROUP. 
          AND THEN THE LAST THING THAT I WOULD SAY ON THAT FRONT IS THAT WE ARE ACTIVELY DEVELOPING A MAINTENANCE PROGRAM, SO INCENTIVES TO SUPPORT THE MAINTENANCE PIECE OF, UM, HEAT PUMPS. 
          BECAUSE WHEN I GOT MY HEAT PUMP, THEY TOLD ME, BY THE WAY, IF YOU DON'T GET THE SERVICE TWICE A YEAR, YOUR WARRANTY WON'T WORK OR YOUR WARRANTY WON'T BE VALID. 
          SO THAT WASN'T BUILT INTO THAT ORIGINAL COST. 
          THOSE ARE THINGS THAT WE WANNA TRY TO BRIDGE THE GAP ON TO ENSURE THAT WE'RE GETTING THE BEST POSSIBLE EXPERIENCE FOR CUSTOMERS, CONTRACTORS, AND FOR THE CITY OF AUSTIN. 
          AND THAT'S IT FOR MY SLIDES. 
          A LOT TO TAKE IN. 
          SO COMMISSIONERS, TAKE A DEEP BREATH AND COME FORTH WITH YOUR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS. 
          WE HAVE A QUESTION FROM, UH, COMMISSIONER SA SARITA, WHO HAS HIS VIRTUAL HAND UP. 
          TAKE IT AWAY. 
          ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. 
          YOU GUYS HEAR ME OKAY? I SWITCHED COMPUTERS HERE. 
          WELL, WE CAN HEAR YOU FINE. 
          YOU CAN'T SEE YOU AT ALL, BUT YOU DON'T. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          LEMME TURN ON MY VIDEO. 
          HAVE TO BE SEEN TO, I MEAN, YOU ONLY HAVE TO BE SEEN FOR A VOTE. 
          WELL, BUT ALSO FOR SOCIAL REASONS. 
          UM, HI. 
          SO FIRST OF ALL, THANKS FOR THAT, UM, WAS AWESOME. 
          I HAVE SO MANY QUESTIONS THAT I'M JUST GONNA LIMIT IT AND LET OTHER PEOPLE TALK AFTER I ASK MY MOST IMPORTANT ONES. 
          UM, THE, THE FIRST ONE IS LIKE, JUST WANNA REITERATE, I THINK IT WAS SAID THAT THIS STUFF WOULD BE SHARED ALREADY, BUT, UM, JUST AN EXTRA REQUEST FOR LIKE, YES, PLEASE TO SHARE THE LIKE, UPSTREAM STUDIES THAT WENT INTO LIKE THESE CONCLUSIONS. 
          UM, SO PLEASE, PLEASE FOR THAT. 
          WOULD LOVE TO READ THOSE. 
          AND THEN, UM, SPECIFICALLY I WANTED TO ASK IF YOU CAN SAY ANYTHING MORE GUYS ABOUT THE MEGAWATTS DOWN VERSUS GREENHOUSE GAS DOWN AS THE, UM, AS THE METRICS OF INTEREST. 
          LIKE WHAT WAS THE DOMAIN FOR THAT? AND, UM, AND YOU SAID SOME, SARAH, YOU SAID SOMEONE ELSE WAS GONNA SAY SOMETHING MORE ABOUT IT. 
          I DIDN'T CATCH THE DETAILS THERE. 
          UH, APOLOGIES. 
          DINO, UH, OR SORRY, COMMISSIONER RAD. 
          UM, I, SO YEAH, SO CURRENTLY THE WAY THAT OUR MANDATE IS STRUCTURED FOR AUSTIN ENERGY, THE ALL OF ALL OF ENERGY EFFICIENCY SERVICES IS COUCHED IN A MEGAWATTS REDUCTION CONTEXT. 
          SO IT MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT FOR US TO JUST JUSTIFY FROM A COST-EFFECTIVENESS PERSPECTIVE, ADMINISTERING INCENTIVES FOR SOMETHING THAT WILL ACTUALLY INCREASE MEGAWATTS. 
          UM, SO FOR EXAMPLE, THAT IS A BIG HURDLE FOR BENEFICIAL ELECTRIFICATION. 
          UM, ONE OF OUR PROPOSALS IN THE FORTHCOMING RESOURCE AND GENERATION PLAN THAT IS TO BE VOTED ON NEXT MONTH BY COUNCIL IS THAT WE WOULD PAVE THE WAY TO TRANSITION TOWARDS CHANGING THOSE METRICS, IN PARTICULAR FOR ENERGY EFFICIENCY FROM MEGAWATTS TO GREENHOUSE GAS AVOIDANCE, WHICH BASICALLY CREATES A BETTER COMMON DENOMINATOR AND I THINK BETTER ALIGNS WITH THE OUTCOMES THAT I THINK MOST OF US ARE, ARE HERE FOR. 
          UM, AND CERTAINLY IT ALIGNS BETTER WITH THE, THE CLIMATE EQUITY PLAN. 
          SO I THINK THAT WAS KIND OF WHAT, SO IF I'M TRYING TO DO A COST-EFFECTIVENESS TEST ON A GIVEN PROGRAM OR GIVEN INCENTIVE, AND MY MEGAWATT SAVINGS ARE ESSENTIALLY ZERO BECAUSE I'VE INCREASED MY MEGAWATTS IN THE WINTER, UM, THEN I CANNOT JUSTIFY GIVING A SIGNIFICANTLY LARGER INCENTIVE FOR A HEAT PUMP THAN I WOULD FOR MAYBE A TRADITIONAL HVAC COUPLED WITH A GAS FURNACE, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. 
          YEAH, IT TOTALLY MAKES SENSE. 
          SO IT'S, IT'S THE, LIKE IT'S THE MANDATE FOR, UM, FOR YOUR GROUP WITHIN AUSTIN ENERGY SPECIFICALLY, IS THAT RIGHT? THAT'S CORRECT. 
          UH, OUR, OUR GOALS IN THE RESOURCE AND GENERATION PLAN ARE OUTLINED AS 975 MEGAWATTS OF, UH, MEGAWATT RE MEGAWATT SAVINGS BY 2030. 
          AND EVERY YEAR WHEN WE RUN OUR COST EFFECTIVENESS ANALYSIS OF OUR PROGRAM, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE LOOK AT IS THE MEG, THE, YOU KNOW, DEEMED SAVINGS FROM ANY GIVEN MEASURE OR, YOU KNOW, STEP THAT IS IMPLEMENTED, UM, AGAINST WHAT THE COST OF ADMINISTERING THE PROGRAM AND PROVIDING THE INCENTIVE WAS. 
          COOL. 
          THAT TOTALLY CLARIFIES THAT. 
          THANKS. 
          UM, YOU ALSO MENTIONED THERE WAS LIKE LEGAL RISK FOR PROVIDING INCENTIVE FOR ELECTRICAL UPGRADES. 
          LIKE WHAT IS THAT LEGAL RISK? 
          [01:15:01]
SO THERE IS A, A STATE BILL HOUSE, HOUSE BILL EIGHT, AM I RIGHT JASMINE? SOUNDS GOOD. 
          ANYWAY, SORRY. 
          I BELIEVE IT WAS 20 20 21. 
          2021. 
          YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          ANYWAY, THERE'S, THERE'S A HOUSE BILL THAT, UM, PROHIBITS, UM, UTILITIES FROM IN, IN PARTICULAR ELECTRIC UTILITIES FROM, FROM PUSHING PEOPLE AWAY FROM HAVING MULTIPLE FUEL SOURCES, IF THAT MAKES, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. 
          AND SO, AND I APOLOGIZE, I DON'T HAVE THE LANGUAGE IN FRONT OF ME, BUT IT'S ESSENTIALLY, IT PROHIBITS US FROM, FOR INSTANCE, WE COULD NOT CREATE A MANDATE IN AUSTIN THAT SAID ALL NEW CONSTRUCTION HAS TO BE ELECTRIC. 
          UM, THAT'S, AND, AND WE HAVE TO WALK A CAREFUL LINE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT SETTING UP PROGRAMS OR CREATING LAWS THAT RUN AFOUL OF THAT. 
          BECAUSE IF WE HAD A LEGAL CHALLENGE, IT WOULD, IT WOULD BE A SIGNIFICANT RISK FOR THE UTILITY. 
          TOTALLY. 
          YEAH. 
          I, I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THAT. 
          UM, OKAY, COOL. 
          UM, I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS, BUT I'M GONNA STOP TALKING SO OTHER PEOPLE CAN ALSO TALK. 
          THANKS FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS. 
          I'M GOING TO INTERJECT BRIEFLY, AND I THOUGHT IT WAS HOUSE BILL 17, BUT IN ANY EVENT, THE NUMBER, UH, ZACH SAYS YOU'RE RIGHT, . 
          UM, I'M, I'M A JEOPARDY CONTESTANT . 
          OKAY. 
          UH, MY POINT IS THAT, UH, I CAN'T CONCEIVE OF A VOLUNTARY PROGRAM VIOLATING HOUSE BILL 17, PARTICULARLY SINCE LEGISLATIVE INTENT WAS READ INTO THE RECORD WHEN IT WAS PASSED. 
          I HAVE A COPY OF THAT LEGISLATIVE INTENT SHOULD YOU NEED IT. 
          I'M SORRY, I'VE, UH, INTERRUPTED, UH, COMMISSIONERS. 
          ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? UH, COMMISSIONER DAVIS, I THINK THANK YOU FOR THE, UH, PRESENTATION. 
          VERY INFORMATIVE. 
          UM, JUST SO QUICK, DO WE HAVE ANY INSIGHT THE MARGINS THAT THE HVAC CONTRACTORS STAND TO EARN ON HEAT PUMPS AS OPPOSED TO THE TRADITIONAL, UH, HVAC WITH FURNACES? I THINK THAT THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT, I, WE DON'T KNOW THE EXACT NUMBERS, RIGHT, BECAUSE WE WERE JUST HAVING, THE CONTRACTOR WAS JUST HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH THEM. 
          BUT I THINK THAT THERE IS A PIECE, I REREAD IT LAST NIGHT. 
          I THINK THERE IS A DISCUSSION OF THAT, UH, IN THE STUDY THAT, UM, WHEN THE SI WHEN THE SALES CYCLE IS DRUG OUT FOR A LONGER TIME PERIOD, WHEN THE THING IS MORE COMPLICATED THAT THEIR MARGIN IS ACTUALLY LOWER. 
          UM, SO I THINK THAT IS PART OF THE EQUATION. 
          OKAY. 
          YEAH, THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE. 
          AND I, I I'M NOT SURE HOW THEY, HOW THEY OPERATE. 
          IS THERE A MARKUP ON THE EQUIPMENT AND THEN THERE'S A LABOR CHARGE THAT'S TYPICALLY THE, THE BUSINESS MODEL FOR THAT. 
          AND SO THAT'S CORRECT. 
          AND THE EQUIPMENT'S COMPARABLE IN, IN, IN COST OR THE, THE EQUIPMENT IS MORE EXPENSIVE. 
          HEAT, A HEAT PUMP WOULD BE MORE EXPENSIVE THAN YOUR TRADITIONAL HVAC SYSTEM, ABOUT A FEW THOUSAND DOLLARS MORE EXPENSIVE. 
          SO THEY MAY HAVE A, A MARKUP IF THE MARKUP WAS, YOU KNOW, ABOUT THE SAME PERCENTAGE. 
          THEY MAY MAKE A LITTLE BIT MORE ON A, ON A HEAT PUMP EQUIPMENT. 
          ANECDOTALLY FROM OUR CONTRACTORS, IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT HEAT PUMPS ARE NOT, THEY'RE LESS, UM, THEY'RE LESS LUCRATIVE FOR THEM. 
          LOWER MARGIN, YEAH, LOWER MARGIN, LIKE OVERALL, NOT JUST PERCENTAGE, BUT JUST A LOWER OVERALL MARGIN ON HEAT PUMPS, BECAUSE THAT TO ME SEEMS LIKE THAT WOULD BE A BARRIER. 
          UM, WHEN YOU'RE, YOU COUPLE THAT WITH THE UNFAMILIARITY FOR THE CONSUMER OF, OF WHAT IT IS, AND IF A CONTRACTOR IS GONNA MAKE LESS MONEY ON IT, THAT'S, THAT'S A CHALLENGE. 
          SO I'D BE, UM, INTERESTED IN SOME, SOME IDEAS AROUND, YOU KNOW, ADDRESSING SOME RECOMMENDATION AROUND ADDRESSING THAT. 
          YEAH, I WOULD SAY TO ZACH'S POINT, ONE OF THE, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S HARD TO ADDRESS HOW THEY SET UP THEIR MARGINS ON THE BACK END, BUT I THINK REDUCING THE SALES CYCLE LIFE IS PROBABLY THE BEST THAT WE CAN DO. 
          UM, AND, AND I THINK IN ADDITION TO THAT, PROVIDING INCENTIVES FOR LIKE A MAINTENANCE PROGRAM OR THINGS LIKE THAT WOULD BE, UM, WOULD HELP WITH SOME OF THOSE THINGS. 
          UM, BUT I WOULD SAY THE MAIN THING I THINK THAT WE HAVE IDENTIFIED TO BE ABLE TO 
          [01:20:01]
REDUCE THAT SALES CYCLE AT LEAST IS THE EDUCATION COMPONENT, BOTH OF THE CONTRACTORS AS WELL AS OF THE CUSTOMERS. 
          SO I THINK ANOTHER POINT THAT ZACH MADE THAT I, THAT FEEDS INTO THIS THAT I WOULD LIKE TO HIGHLIGHT IS PEOPLE ARE OFTEN MAKING THIS DECISION IN AN, IN SORT OF A CRISIS SITUATION. 
          AND, UM, WHEN YOU'RE IN A CRISIS, YOU DON'T WANT YOUR CONTRACTOR TO SAY, HEY, BUY THIS THING THAT'S A LITTLE MORE EXPENSIVE. 
          I PROMISE IT'S GONNA PAY OFF IN THE LONG RUN. 
          'CAUSE YOU'RE LOOKING AT THEM LIKE A USED CAR SALESMAN, YOU KNOW? AND SO I THINK A LOT OF THAT IS ABOUT DEVELOPING A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING, UM, WITH THE CUSTOMERS SO THAT WHEN THEY DO GET TO THAT POINT WHERE THEY, YOU KNOW, THEIR AC GOES OUT IN AUGUST AND THEY'RE PANICKING, THEY'RE LIKE, I ALREADY KNOW THAT I WANNA GET A HEAT PUMP. 
          THANK YOU. 
          COMMISSIONERS. 
          COMMISSIONERS. 
          ARE THERE OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? UH, COMMISSIONER LUKI, YOU YEAH, I'VE BEEN KICKING THIS ONE AROUND HERE. 
          I AM CURIOUS ABOUT THE, THE EQUIPMENT. 
          UM, WHEN YOU HAVE A, A NORMAL, UM, AC UNIT AND THEN YOU HAVE A HEATER UNIT, THESE TWO DEVICES ARE USUALLY INSTALLED TOGETHER. 
          UM, SO CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THAT MEANS THAT THE, THE HEAT PUMP, THAT THAT UNIT ITSELF IS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN REPLACING BOTH OF THOSE THINGS. 
          IT DEPENDS ON WHAT KIND OF HEATER YOU'RE REPLACING, BUT CERTAINLY IF YOU'RE REPLACING A STRIP RESISTANCE HEATER, IT IS, THOSE ARE VERY INEXPENSIVE. 
          SO, UM, WITH A GAS HEATER IT'S A LITTLE MORE COMPLICATED 'CAUSE IT'S, YOU KNOW, DO YOU ALREADY HAVE THE GAS? LIKE WHAT'S YOUR GAS INFRASTRUCTURE LIKE? SO THERE'S A, IT'S A LITTLE BIT LESS OF AN APPLES TO APPLES COMPARISON, BUT IN GENERAL, UM, STANDALONE HEATERS ARE FAIRLY INEXPENSIVE. 
          SO MOST OF THE COST, UM, IS IN YOUR, IS IN YOUR, YOU KNOW, AC UNIT. 
          UM, OFTEN THOSE TWO THINGS SHARE AN AIR HANDLING UNIT. 
          SO IF YOU'RE REPLACING YOUR AC SOMETIMES THEY'LL AUTOMATICALLY INCLUDE A NEW AIR HANDLING UNIT BECAUSE IF YOU'RE GONNA GET IN THERE AND MUCK UP THE WORKS AND THEN THERE'S COMPATIBILITY ISSUES. 
          AND SO A LOT OF TIMES THAT'S WHY, UM, THE COST IS, THE COST DIFFERENTIAL DOESN'T CHANGE THAT MUCH, PLUS OR MINUS THE, THE ACTUAL, THE MARGINAL HEATER COST. 
          'CAUSE IT'S LIKE THE HEATER PLUS THE AIR HANDLING UNIT IS YOUR HEATING SYSTEM, THE AIR HANDLING UNIT PLUS YOUR CONDENSER IS YOUR, IS YOUR AC SYSTEM. 
          THOSE ARE MORE EXPENSIVE THAN THE HEATER ITSELF. 
          SO THANK YOU COMMISSIONERS. 
          ARE THERE OTHER QUESTIONS OR, UH, COMMISSIONER SCHWARTZ, I, I WAS WONDERING IF YOU GUYS KNOW THE NUMBERS ON RESISTANCE HEATERS IN THE AE SERVICE TERRITORY? YEAH, I CAN GIVE IT SOME ROUGH NUMBERS. 
          WE DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW EXACTLY HOW MANY HOMES HAVE GAS, BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT ABOUT 70% OF OUR SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL HOUSES, SO NOT INCLUDING MULTIFAMILY, ARE ON GAS. 
          UM, THAT'S A PRETTY LARGE PERCENTAGE, RIGHT? SO IF ALL OF THOSE WERE TO GO ALL ELECTRIC, IT WOULD HAVE A MEANINGFUL IMPACT ON OUR WINTER LOAD, UM, YOU KNOW, FOR THE UTILITY. 
          UM, N NEITHER GOOD NOR BAD, JUST NOTEWORTHY. 
          UM, I THINK THAT THE NUMBER THAT I'VE SEEN IS ABOUT 50% OF UNIT DWELLING UNITS OVERALL ARE, ARE GAS VERSUS 50% ELECTRIC. 
          SO THAT, SO THE MAJORITY OF MULTIFAMILY HOUSING IS ALL ELECTRIC. 
          UM, SO, AND, AND OFTEN THAT IS ALL RESISTANCE, HEATING, RETROFITTING, MULTIFAMILY DWELLINGS WITH HEAT PUMPS CAN BE REALLY CHALLENGING BECAUSE OF THE SPATIAL CONSTRAINTS. 
          UM, NOT TO MENTION THE MAINTENANCE ISSUES THAT, THAT ZACH BROUGHT UP, BUT IT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING IT'S, WE SEE THAT AS KIND OF THE LOW HANGING FRUIT IN TERMS OF THE GREATEST BENEFIT TO CUSTOMERS AND TO THE UTILITY. 
          SO, SO YOU'RE NOT SURE ON, OH, YOU, YOU SAID THE MAJORITY OF MULTIFAMILY ARE S HEATING, THE MAJORITY OF MULTIFAMILY COMPLEXES ARE ELECTRIC OR ALL ELECTRIC. 
          'CAUSE IT'S, IT'S PRETTY COSTLY AND, AND SOMEWHAT OF A SAFETY ISSUE TO RUN GAS TO THEM. 
          I, YEAH. 
          UM, I THINK IT'S MORE JUST A COMPLICATED INFRASTRUCTURE RUNNING GAS PIPING TO EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL UNIT. 
          THERE'S CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, HIGH RISES DOWNTOWN AND FANCY CONDOS THAT HAVE GAS 'CAUSE PEOPLE LIKE TO COOK WITH GAS OR BIG CENTRALIZED BOILERS OR HEATING UNITS THAT ARE RUN OFF OF GAS OR OTHER TYPES OF FUEL. 
          YEAH. 
          I DIDN'T REALIZE THE MAJORITY OF OF 
          [01:25:01]
ELECTRIC WAS RESISTANCE HEATING STILL HERE. 
          I THOUGHT IT WAS THE VAST MAJORITY WHERE HEAT PUMPS LIKE, UH, NO. 
          YEAH, YOU KNOW, I, ONE THING TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS IS WITH THE EXCEPTION OF SOME VERY NOTEWORTHY TOUGH WINTERS THAT WE'VE HAD, AUSTIN HAS FAIRLY LOW, HAS A FAIRLY SMALL NUMBER OF HEATING DAYS. 
          SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT NATIONAL HEAT PUMP ADOPTION, THE AVERAGE IS ACTUALLY ABOUT 12%. 
          THE HIGHEST ADOPTIONS ARE IN PLACES LIKE SOUTH CAROLINA PLACES THAT JUST DON'T HAVE AS HIGH OF HEATING DAYS. 
          AND SO I DO THINK WE ARE A GOOD PLACE FOR THE ADOPTION OF HEAT PUMPS, BUT I THINK BECAUSE THERE'S NOT, LIKE THE, THE HEATING COMPONENT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT I THINK PEOPLE THINK ABOUT AS MUCH IN TEXAS. 
          UM, IT'S JUST NOT SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN, UH, IT'S NOT ENOUGH THAT AS MANY MULTI-FAMILY PROPERTIES HAVE TRIED TO CRACK, YOU KNOW, HOW, HOW TO REDUCE THEIR CUSTOMER'S HEATING BILLS, THINGS LIKE THAT. 
          DO THE INCENTIVES LOOK DIFFERENT OR WERE THEY WITH A NEW, UH, WAS IT GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS PAY INCENTIVES FOR RESISTANCE VERSUS OTHER RETROFITS? 'CAUSE THAT SEEMS LIKE IT'S THE, BY FAR, THE BIGGEST BANG FOR THE BUCK IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, LOAD AND GREENHOUSE GAS. 
          YEAH, SO, SO WHAT I CAN TELL YOU IS WE DID DO A MARKET POTENTIAL STUDY FOR THE GENERATION PLAN. 
          AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS STRIKING TO ME IS THAT EVEN IF YOU INCLUDE BENEFICIAL ELECTRIFICATION IN YOUR PORTFOLIO, THE LARGEST IMPACT ON GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS IS MEGAWATT REDUCTION, RIGHT? ENERGY EFFICIENCY REMAINS VERY IMPORTANT. 
          SO I THINK FOR US, THE SORT OF STRUCTURAL CHALLENGE WE HAVE AS SORT OF ANALYTICAL CREATURES  IS, YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE JUSTIFY GIVING, CLOSING THE, THE GAP RIGHT ON THE COST DIFFERENTIAL BETWEEN HEAT PUMPS AND TRADITIONAL HVAC, IF IN FACT THE MEGAWATTS REMAIN, OR, YOU KNOW, THE SORT OF NET EFFECT ON THE MEGAWATTS IS, IS CLOSE TO ZERO OR EVEN MAYBE A SLIGHT INCREASE IN MEGAWATTS AND REALLY COLD YEARS. 
          AND SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE ARE THINKING ABOUT INCENTIVE SIZING, I WOULD LOVE TO BE ABLE TO HAVE AN INCENTIVE THAT REFLECTS THAT COMMUNITY BENEFIT OF REDUCED GREENHOUSE GASES. 
          UM, AND THAT ALLOWS US TO THINK ABOUT, OKAY, IF WE HAVE SOMEBODY TRANSITIONING FROM GAS TO ELECTRIC, CAN WE GIVE THEM A LITTLE EXTRA INCENTIVE TO SUPPORT THE PANEL UPGRADE THAT THEY'RE GONNA REQUIRE? THINGS LIKE THAT. 
          UM, RIGHT NOW WE CAN'T, RIGHT, BECAUSE IT JUST DOESN'T ALIGN WITH THE WAY THAT OUR GOALS ARE STRUCTURED AND OUR COST EFFECTIVENESS MEASURES. 
          BUT THERE ARE CURRENTLY, THERE ARE INCENTIVES FOR TRANSITION FROM STRIP RESISTANCE HEATING TO HEAT PUMPS OR NOT. 
          WE DO NOT TRACK THE ORIGINAL, THE, THE ORIGINATING FUEL SOURCES. 
          UM, THE, THE INCENTIVES ARE JUST SORT OF A LIKE FOR LIKE ON ACROSS LIKE HVAC OR BASED ON THE SEER RATINGS. 
          OKAY, SO ROUGHLY. 
          AND SO WE DON'T ACTUALLY TRACK THE, THE ORIGIN OF LIKE THE ORIGINAL FUEL SOURCE. 
          UM, WE DID FOR A WHILE AND DID NOT PROVIDE INCENTIVES FOR TRANSITION TO HEAT PUMPS AT FROM GAS AT THAT TIME BECAUSE IT DIDN'T ALIGN WITH OUR, WITH OUR GOALS. 
          WE'VE SINCE KIND OF SET THAT ASIDE AND SAID, HEY, WE'RE GONNA FOCUS ON KIND OF JUST WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE, YOU KNOW, THIS BASED ON THE SEA RATING. 
          SO THAT'S HOW WE STRUCTURE THEM NOW. 
          BUT IF WE WERE ABLE TO TAKE IT INTO CONSIDERATION WHAT THAT TRANSITION LOOKS LIKE, THEN WE WOULD BE ABLE TO CONSIDER AGAIN, UM, BETTER INCENTIVES FOR UPGRADING ELECTRIC PANELS AND SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT ARE REQUIRED IN ORDER TO MAKE THAT TRANSITION. 
          AND, UH, WITH, WITH REGARDS TO THE ELECTRIC PANEL UPGRADES, YOU'RE FINDING THAT MOST, UH, HOMES NEED AN UPGRADE, LIKE A HUNDRED AMP PANEL NEEDS AN UPGRADE FOR HEAT PUMP? YES. 
          I COULD GO INTO A LONGER EXPLANATION ABOUT THAT HAVING GONE THROUGH IT IN MY OWN HOME, BUT, UM, BUT YEAH, SO THE WAY THAT HVAC CONTRACTORS WANT TO ENSURE THAT YOU ARE, THEY'RE, WHAT THEY'VE INSTALLED IS SUCCESSFUL IS THEY THINK ABOUT LIKE A PRETTY BAD SCENARIO, RIGHT? THEY THINK, OH MAN, WINTER STORM URI, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE 10 DAYS WHERE IT'S REALLY COLD. 
          AND WHEN YOU GET TO REALLY LOW TEMPERATURES, THE HEAT PUMPS DO ACTUALLY HAVE TO KICK IN A BACKUP HEATING SOURCE. 
          AND, AND THE ALL ELECTRIC ONES ARE ACTUALLY USING RESISTANCE HEATING, THEY'RE USING LESS OF IT, BUT THEY ARE USING RESISTANCE HEATING. 
          UM, THERE ARE HYBRID ONES THAT USE NATURAL GAS WHEN YOU GET, WHEN IT GETS BELOW A CERTAIN TEMPERATURE OUTSIDE. 
          BUT SO YOUR HVAC CONTRACTOR IS THINKING ABOUT THAT AND THINKING, MAN, IF YOU'RE RUNNING THIS THING AND IT'S 20 DEGREES OUTSIDE FOR SEVEN DAYS, I DON'T WANNA BLOW 
          [01:30:01]
YOUR, YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANT YOUR BREAKERS TO KEEP GOING OUT. 
          RIGHT? UM, BECAUSE YOUR PANEL IS UNDERSIZED. 
          SO THEN FOLKS SWITCHING FROM STRIP TO HEAT PUMPS SHOULDN'T REQUIRE, THEY REQUIRE AN UPGRADE BECAUSE THEIR DEMAND IS LOWER. 
          GOTCHA. 
          I GUESS THAT MAKES SENSE. 
          WITH RESPECT TO STRIP HEATING, MY MY UNDERSTANDING WAS JUST THAT, UH, CO YOU KNOW, I HAD READ CONTRACTORS AROUND THE COUNTRY ARE FINDING THAT, UH, THERE ARE WAYS AROUND PANEL UPGRADES AND IT'S NOT REALLY SOMETHING THAT ALMOST NEVER NEEDS TO HAPPEN, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S REALLY BEING BORNE OUT AT ALL HERE. 
          YEAH, I I CAN ONLY KIND OF TELL YOU WHAT OUR CONTRACTOR COMMUNITY HAS, HAS SAID, RIGHT? LIKE I, I I DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE SPECULATING ON WHETHER OR NOT YOU COULD PUSH THE AMPERAGE ON YOUR PANEL. 
          AND IT MIGHT BE FINE. 
          I'VE CERTAINLY HEARD THAT FROM PEOPLE. 
          YEAH. 
          BUT THE POSITION THAT OUR PROGRAMS TAKE AND THAT AUSTIN ENERGY TAKES IS THAT WE, WE TRUST WHAT OUR CONTRACTORS ARE TELLING US AND TELLING OUR CUSTOMERS. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND BECAUSE OF, AS NOTED, THE HVAC CONTRACTORS ARE NOT DOING THE PANEL UPGRADE, THERE'S NO FINANCIAL BENEFIT FOR THEM. 
          YOU DON'T TO REQUIRE YOU TO DO THAT. 
          RIGHT. 
          RIGHT. 
          OKAY. 
          YEAH. 
          UM, THE, THE OTHER QUESTION I HAD WAS WITH RESPECT TO, I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GONNA COME OF IT, BUT I KNOW THE, THE IRA, WHICH I GUESS AS OF NEXT SUMMER IS SUPPOSED TO HAVE HUGE, UH, INCENTIVES FOR HEAT PUMPS TO THE TUNE OF LIKE EIGHT K, UH, FOR AN UPGRADE OR 50% FOR I THINK CERTAIN INCOMES BELOW LIKE 150 GRAND A YEAR INCOME. 
          UM, HAVE YOU, HAVE YOU LOOKED AT THAT? I GUESS WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THAT. 
          UH, YEAH, I MEAN THERE'S A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT FUNDING SOURCES FORTHCOMING, RIGHT? SO THERE'S IRA FUND FUNDING COMING INTO THE STATE OF TEXAS. 
          UM, THE STATE ENERGY CCO, THE STATE ENERGY CONSERVATION, UM, OFFICE, SORRY, I WAS LIKE, WHAT IS THE O FOUR? UM, THEY ARE BRINGING IN SOME IRA FUNDING TO SUPPORT, YOU KNOW, ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND HEAT PUMPS. 
          WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THOSE INCENTIVES ARE GONNA LOOK LIKE YET. 
          UM, I WILL SAY, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS THE DELTA RIGHT NOW IS ABOUT FIVE GRAND, RIGHT? FOR LIKE, FOR LIKE ENERGY EFFICIENT UNITS. 
          UM, IT'S ABOUT, YOU KNOW, FOUR AND A HALF TO FIVE GRAND MORE EXPENSIVE TO BUY A HEAT BUMP THAN IT IS A TRADITIONAL HVAC UNIT. 
          AND THERE'S ALREADY A $2,000 TAX CREDIT WE OFFER UP TO $1,200. 
          SO THAT GETS YOU TO 3,200, RIGHT? WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO REEVALUATING OUR INCENTIVES, AGAIN, ACCORDING TO WHAT IS SORT OF FORTHCOMING, UM, IN TERMS OF OUR GOALS AND, AND CAN REVISIT IT AT THAT POINT. 
          BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, WE ARE I THINK DOING A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT JOB CLOSING THAT GAP. 
          THERE'S STILL A LITTLE HEADROOM THERE. 
          PEOPLE ARE STILL HAVING TO MAKE A COUPLE THOUSAND DOLLARS DECISION. 
          I THINK WE ALSO HELP WITH THAT BY OFFERING LOW INTEREST FINANCING THROUGH OUR VELOCITY, THROUGH OUR PARTNERSHIP WITH VELOCITY CREDIT UNION. 
          SO THESE ARE ALL WAYS THAT WE'RE KIND OF TRYING TO HELP CUSTOMERS MAKE THOSE DECISIONS. 
          AND AS YOU GUYS KNOW, IN THIS ECONOMY, A LOW INTEREST LOAN IS LIKE GOLD. 
          SO, UM, WE DO WANT TO HELP CUSTOMERS MAKE THOSE DECISIONS. 
          I THINK THAT THERE'S AN EDUCATION GAP, UM, THAT IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE CHIEF AREAS THAT WE COULD DO THE MOST, UM, QUICK IMPROVEMENTS AND CHANGES AND TRY TO REALLY GET THE WORD OUT. 
          HOW DOES THE FINANCING WORK? IS THAT THE CONTRACTOR YOU WORK WITH, A CONTRACTOR TO SUBSIDIZE, UH, FINANCING FOR IT OR? SO, YEAH, THIS COULD BE A REALLY LONG STORY, BUT BASICALLY IF YOU GO THROUGH OUR HOME ENERGY SAVINGS PROGRAM, UM, YOU ARE, YOU CAN APPLY FOR A LOAN THROUGH VELOCITY CREDIT UNION, UM, AND TO, TO, FOR UP TO $20,000 TO FUND YOUR, UM, TO FUND YOUR HOME ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROJECT, WHICH INCLUDES YOUR HVAC AND YOUR INSULATION AND SO FORTH. 
          AND ARE THOSE INCENTIVES IN THAT PROGRAM, IS THAT INCOME RESTRICTED OR IS IT OPEN TO NO. 
          SO WE DO HAVE A WEATHERIZATION PROGRAM. 
          OUR FOR, UM, LOW INCOME OR INCOME QUALIFIED CUSTOMERS. 
          UM, THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE, THE PROGRAM ITSELF IS FREE FOR CUSTOMERS, UH, FOR THE WEATHERIZATION, BUT HVAC, THEY ACTUALLY ARE ALSO ELIGIBLE FOR A, AN EXTREMELY LOW INTEREST, A MUCH LOWER INTEREST LOAN FOR AN HVAC UPGRADE. 
          SO I BELIEVE THE LOAN, UM, INTEREST RATES ON THE MARKET RATE CUSTOMERS, UM, IS AROUND THREE, THREE TO 4%. 
          UM, BUT FOR THE WEATHERIZATION, FOR QUALIFYING WEATHERIZATION HOMES, I THINK THAT THEY GET ONE TO 2%. 
          SO THEY ARE ELIGIBLE FOR A VERY LOW, IN A MUCH LOWER INTEREST LOAN. 
          DO YOU HAVE NUMBERS ON THE RETROFITS, LIKE OVER THE LAST YEAR? UM, I, YES, BUT NOT ON, NOT RIGHT HERE. 
          YEAH. 
          , I'M ALL DONE THEN. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU. 
          ARE THERE ANY, UH, FURTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM COMMISSIONERS? 
          [01:35:01]
I DO HAVE A QUESTION. 
          THIS IS COMMISSIONER GARY. 
          UH, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR PRESENTING, UH, THE PRESENTATION. 
          UH, I WANNA GO BACK TO WHAT YOU BRIEFLY STATED ABOUT THE EDUCATION COMPONENT AND GETTING THE WORD OUT. 
          WHAT HAS THERE BEEN ANY STRATEGIES DEVELOPER FORTHCOMING THAT YOU CAN SHARE WITH US ON HOW YOU INTEND TO GET THE WORD OUT ABOUT THIS PROGRAM? YEAH, SO HEAT PUMPS ARE ADDRESSED ACROSS ALL, ALL OF OUR PROGRAMS. UM, SO IT'S NOT A SPECIFIC HEAT PUMP PROGRAM, BUT WE HAVE SPENT OVER THE LAST YEAR A LOT OF TIME, UM, ORGANIZING EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES FOR CONTRACTORS. 
          I THINK THE OTHER STRATEGY THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED AND IS UNDERWAY IS KIND OF DEVELOPING A FRAMEWORK FOR THE COST BENEFIT THAT WE CAN COMMUNICATE TO CONTRACTORS AND HOPEFULLY THEN THEY CAN COMMUNICATE TO CUSTOMERS. 
          UM, AS NOTED, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD LIKE TO PARTNER WITH THE OFFICE OF SUSTAINABILITY ON MORE DIRECT CUSTOMER COMMUNICATION JUST TO ENSURE THAT, UM, THERE IS A MORE LIKE AN OBJECTIVE PARTY PRESENTING THE COST BENEFITS OF HEAT PUMPS. 
          UM, 'CAUSE WE ARE VERY MINDFUL AS THE UTILITY THAT PEOPLE'S BILLS MAY GO UP IN PARTICULAR IF THEY TRANSITION FROM GAS. 
          AND SO, UM, WE WILL WORK WITH OFFICE OF SUSTAINABILITY ON SOME CASE STUDIES. 
          WE'VE ALREADY IDENTIFIED A FEW HOMES THAT HAVE EITHER TRANSITIONED FROM GAS TO ELECTRIC, MINE INCLUDED, AND UM, TO ON WHICH TO TRACK BILLS OVER THE NEXT COUPLE YEARS. 
          SO THERE'S STILL SOME, QUITE A BIT OF WORK TO BE DONE THERE, BUT THOSE ARE THE STRATEGIES THAT WE ARE, WE'RE UNDERTAKING. 
          THANK YOU SO MUCH. 
          UH, ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS FROM COMMISSIONER SCAFF OR FARMER? I GUESS NOT. 
          UM, OKAY. 
          COMMISSIONER LUKI, YOU HAD ANOTHER QUESTION. 
          UM, UH, ARE YOU AWARE THAT THE SIERRA CLUB IS PUTTING TOGETHER A GROUP OF INDIVIDUALS TO DO THE OUTREACH PROGRAM THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT? NO, BUT THAT'S PROBABLY GREAT NEWS FOR ZACH. 
          'CAUSE THAT'S ONE LAST THING HE'S GOTTA DO. 
          SO THAT'S, THAT SOUNDS EXCELLENT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          WE WILL, UH, TOUCH BASE WITH CYRUS, UH, BRILLIANT. 
          UM, YEAH, I'M ON THAT TEAM AND SO IT'S BEEN VERY INTERESTING TO WATCH, UH, THIS LITTLE PRESENTATION HERE, WHICH ANSWERS A WHOLE BUNCH OF MY QUESTIONS OF WHAT I WAS GONNA BRING TO THE TABLE. 
          BUT, UH, YEAH, THERE'S, THERE'S MULTIPLE PEOPLE OUT THERE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO OUTREACH ON, ON THIS LARGER QUESTION OF HOW IT IS WE REDUCE THE USE OF GREENHOUSE GASES IN GENERAL. 
          UM, BUT, UH, UH, DEFINITELY, UM, A CONCISE, UH, SET OF, UH, INFORMATION TO HAND OFF TO GROUPS LIKE THAT WOULD BE VERY WELCOME. 
          SO I THINK, UH, AN OUT OUTREACH TO THOSE KINDS OF ORGANIZATIONS WOULD DO YOU A LOT OF GOOD. 
          THANK YOU, ZACH. 
          PLUS YOU COULD BE ON MY SHOW ALSO 'CAUSE I HAVE A, A TALK SHOW ABOUT THAT, WHICH ZACH HAS ACTUALLY BEEN ON BEFORE, AND I'M THINKING ABOUT INVITING YOU BACK  TO TALK ABOUT THIS. 
          HE'S A BETTER SPEAKER THAN I AM, SO WE'LL LET HIM REPRESENT US . 
          VERY GOOD. 
          UH, ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM COMMISSIONERS? OKAY, I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS. 
          UH, FIRST, UH, MS. NORRIS, UH, YOU HAD MENTIONED THAT, UH, THERE WERE ALL THESE, OH, IN RESPONSE TO A QUESTION FROM COMMISSIONER SCHWARTZ THAT MOST DEPARTMENTS, UH, DID NOT HAVE HEAT PUMPS. 
          AND THAT SURPRISES ME BECAUSE IT'S BEEN A BUILDING CODE REQUIREMENT SINCE THE LATE 1980S. 
          IS THE BUILDING CODE NOT BEING ENFORCED? I AM NOT AN EXPERT ON THE BUILDING CODES, SO I, YOU KNOW, MY GROUP MOSTLY DEALS WITH RETROFITS, SO I CANNOT SPEAK TO THAT. 
          I JUST KNOW THAT, UM, ACCORDING TO ECA D DATA, MOST OF THE MULTIFAMILY, THE MAJORITY OF THE MULTIFAMILY COMPLEXES IN AUSTIN HAVE EITHER TRADITIONAL, HAVE TRADITIONAL HVAC SYSTEMS WITH RESISTANCE HEATING. 
          SO, I, I CANNOT SPEAK TO THAT. 
          IS IT OKAY? I DON'T RUN THE ECAD PROGRAM. 
          IT IS PLAUSIBLE THAT THE APARTMENT MANAGERS DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE. 
          UH, LOOK, I DON'T KNOW. 
          UH, AND IF WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS TRUE, I AM ALARMED, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT I HAVE REASON TO BE ALARMED BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW. 
          WELL, I WILL 
          [01:40:01]
ACKNOWLEDGE THAT, UM, THE ECA AUDITS ARE ONLY DONE ON, TYPICALLY ON OLDER BUILDINGS. 
          IT'S 10 YEARS OR OLDER, BUT IN GENERAL, UM, THEY'RE RUN ON OLD, YOU KNOW, MOST OF THE DATA IS ON OLDER BUILDINGS, CERTAINLY NOT NEW BUILDS. 
          NOW YOU'RE SAYING IT'S BEEN IN THE CODE SINCE THE EIGHTIES. 
          THAT WAS NOT, I'M NOT AWARE OF THAT. 
          UM, BUT WE WOULD BE HAPPY TO CONNECT YOU WITH HEIDI CASPER, WHO IS OF COURSE THE DIRECTOR OF GREENFIELD. 
          I, I, I, I KNOW MS. CASPER. 
          WE KNOW EACH OTHER REAL WELL, , AND, UM, I, WELL, I DON'T WANT TO CARRY ON ABOUT THIS. 
          WE HAVE OTHER THINGS TO DO, BUT, UH, I AM, UH, GOING TO TRY AND FOLLOW THIS DOWN. 
          UM, UM, IF, IF WHAT YOU SAY IS CORRECT, IT'S REALLY DISTURBING. 
          UNDERSTOOD. 
          I'M HAPPY TO FOLLOW UP WITH HEIDI TOMORROW AND JUST CLARIFY, UH, WHAT SHE'S SEEING ON THE NEW, ON THE NEW CONSTRUCTION SIDE. 
          UM, AND WITH CODE ENFORCEMENT, EVEN IF IT'S NOT BEING DONE WITH NEW BUILDINGS, THIS WOULD SUPPOSEDLY HAVE BEEN DONE WITH OLDER, UH, BUILDINGS FROM 1989 UP TO THE MIDDLE OF THE LAST DECADE, IF NOT CURRENT. 
          UM, OKAY. 
          UM, LET ME MOVE ON. 
          UH, YOU HAD MENTIONED ONE OF THE THINGS, ALL THE COMMISSIONERS HERE KNOW THAT I'VE BEEN AN OUTSPOKEN CRITIC OF TEXAS GAS SERVICE. 
          I THINK THEY HAVE HIGH RATES. 
          I THINK THEY DON'T RUN CONSERVATION PROGRAMS COST EFFECTIVELY. 
          BUT THE ONE THING I WILL SAY TO THEIR CREDIT IS THAT WHEN WINTER STORM MARA HIT IN, I WAS 2023, UH, AND MY ELECTRICITY WAS OUT FOR OVER A DAY, UM, I HAD HEAT FROM A GAS FIREPLACE AND IF NEED BE FROM MY GAS STOVE. 
          UH, THERE'S A QUESTION OF RESILIENCY HERE. 
          IT'S NOT THE RESILIENCY WE USUALLY THINK OF, BUT IT'S A BACKUP PLAN. 
          AND SO IF WE WERE ALL ELECTRIFIED AND WE HAD ANOTHER WINTER STORM YURI OR WINTER STORM MARA, UH, THINGS WOULD BE CONCEIVABLY WORSE IN THE SHORT TERM. 
          I HEAR YOU LOUD AND CLEAR, PAUL. 
          I ALSO SHARE THOSE CONCERNS, UM, ON, UH, , I'VE, I'VE HEARD THAT, UH, FROM, UH, AT LEAST ONE ELECTRICAL CONTRACTOR THAT THERE WOULD BE A PROBLEM IN CONVERTING, UH, STRIP HEAT RESISTANCE, HEAT CENTRAL FURNACES TO HEAT PUMPS IN MULTIFAMILY BUILDINGS. 
          YOU'RE SURE THIS IS NOT, UH, AN ISSUE? UH, NO. 
          I BELIEVE I DID NOTE THAT RETROFIT OF MULTIFAMILY BUILDINGS IS PARTICULARLY CHALLENGING. 
          CAN I MISUNDERSTOOD YOU? I APOLOGIZE BECAUSE OF FACIAL CONSTRAINTS. 
          I APOLOGIZE. 
          NO WORRIES. 
          UM, REGARDING, UM, THE COST DIFFERENTIAL, THE COST DATA, UH, IN AN EARLIER CONVERSATION OFFLINE, YOU HAD MENTIONED THAT AUSTIN ENERGY HAS GENERIC COST DATA ON, UH, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HEAT PUMPS AND, UH, NORMAL AIR CONDITIONERS. 
          WOULD YOU MIND SENDING THAT TO THE COMMISSIONERS? Y YES, PAUL, THAT'S FINE. 
          AS I NOTED IN THAT CONVERSATION, MY STAFF IS WORKING ON CLEANING UP THE DATA SUCH THAT, SO THAT IT CAN BE PUBLIC FACING. 
          UH, I RECALL THAT ONE OF YOUR PREDECESSORS, UH, UH, GERALD GUSTAFSON USED TO HAVE A, A DATABASE THAT WAS CLINICAL AND HE COULD TELL YOU FOR EVERY SR FOR EVERY EER WHAT THE DIFFERENTIAL WOULD BE, UM, THAT IT WOULD BE SO, SO COOL. 
          IF WE HAD THAT AGAIN, WOULD BE SO EFFECTIVE, SO HELPFUL. 
          WELL, UM, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, WE ARE 
          [01:45:01]
ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT OUR FORTHCOMING REPORTING AND EVALUATION CONTRACT, UH, WHICH WE'LL BE HITTING THE STREETS IN, I THINK A FEW WEEKS, UM, THE RFP FOR IT. 
          AND, UM, OUR EXPECTATION IS THIS IS SORT OF A THIRD PARTY EMNV WHO CAN HELP US, UM, ORGANIZE AND PROVIDE DATA IN A, IN A BETTER FASHION THAN WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO FINALLY. 
          UM, AND, AND SO YOU'LL, YOU'LL GET US THE DATA AS, AS, AS IT'S READY. 
          AS NOTED, MY STAFF ARE ALREADY WORKING ON IT. 
          OKAY. 
          AND FINALLY, UM, UM, NOT TO PUT YOU ON THE SPOT, BUT IN AN OFFLINE CONVERSATION, YOU NOTED THAT YOU WOULD BE LEAVING US. 
          AND, UM, ON BEHALF OF THE COMMISSION, I WANTED TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE. 
          THANK YOU. 
          IT'S BEEN A PLEASURE SERVING, UM, HOPE, I HOPE THINGS GO WELL FOR YOU. 
          THANK YOU. 
          YES, I'LL BE LEAVING AT THE END OF DECEMBER, AND, UM, I'M MOVING TO COLORADO TO TAKE CARE OF MY MOTHER, BUT, UM, THIS HAS BEEN ONE OF THE GREATEST PLEASURES OF MY LIFE, IS WORKING IN THIS POSITION. 
          THANK YOU GUYS. 
          UH, UNLESS THERE ARE OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM COMMISSIONERS, UH, I'D LIKE TO MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM. 
          UH, AND I, I WAS ALSO GONNA OFFER, DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD TAKE A FIVE MINUTE BREAK OR DO, COMMISSIONER, IS THERE A SENSE THAT WE WANT TO PUSH ON? LET'S GO. 
          OKAY. 
          PEOPLE SEE, AT LEAST IN, IN ATTENDANCE, UH, PERSONAL ATTENDANCE SEEM TO WANT TO GO ON. 
          SO, LISA MARTIN, 
          [5. Staff briefing and process update on the Resource, Generation, and Climate Protection  Plan by Lisa Martin, Deputy General Manager and Chief Operating Officer. ]
I THINK IT'S YOUR TERM, UH, STAFF BRIEFING AND PROCESS UPDATE ON RESOURCE GENERATION, RESOURCE GENERATION AND CLIMATE PROTECTION PLANNED BY LISA MARTIN, DEPUTY GENERAL MANAGER AND CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER. 
          THAT'S YOU. 
          THANK YOU FOR HONORING US WITH THIS, UH, ATTENDANCE. 
          UH, AND THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME. 
          CAN YOU HEAR ME FINE? YES. 
          OKAY, GREAT. 
          SO, UM, AS, UH, AS ACTING CHAIR ROBIN STATED, I'M LISA MARTIN, AUSTIN ENERGY'S CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER, AND I SEE SOME FAMILIAR FACES. 
          I SAW SOME OF YOU EARLIER TODAY. 
          UH, THANKS FOR YOUR PATIENCE AS I WALKED THROUGH IT AGAIN. 
          BUT I KNOW THERE WAS A SPECIAL REQUEST TO HAVE ME COME AND GIVE AN UPDATE ON AUSTIN ENERGY'S RESOURCE GENERATION AND CLIMATE PROTECTION PLAN TO 2035 PROCESS. 
          I BELIEVE I CAME AND SPOKE WITH YOU, UM, EARLIER THIS YEAR WHEN WE WERE KICKING OFF THE PROCESS TO REALLY DIVE DEEP INTO, UM, THE DEVELOPMENT OF A FULL 2030 PLAN. 
          AND I THINK I LAID OUT KIND OF THE, THE VARIOUS, UH, PHASES OF WHAT WE WERE GOING TO BE WORKING ON. 
          UM, AND WE'RE NOW AT THE, UM, END STAGE OF THAT WORK. 
          AND SO IT'S TIME IS FITTING TO COME AND GIVE YOU ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ABOUT THE WORK THAT WE'VE DONE TO DATE. 
          UM, SO WE ARE, UM, OUR BUILDING A BRIDGE TO OUR ENERGY FUTURE, AND IT REALLY IS TAKING A LOT OF, UH, PEOPLE TOGETHER TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THAT, UH, LOOKS LIKE. 
          UM, THE RESOURCE GENERATION AND CLIMATE PROTECTION PLAN, UM, SETS SOME, UH, PUTS US AMONGST THE, UH, ELITE WHEN IT COMES TO, UH, UTILITIES ACROSS THIS COUNTRY, AND PUTS, SETS FORTH SOME REALLY AGGRESSIVE GOALS. 
          BUT WHAT YOU'LL HEAR FROM ME TONIGHT IS THAT THERE ARE A NUMBER OF CHALLENGES THAT WE'RE FACING THAT WE HAVE TO, UM, WORK TO ADAPT TO. 
          AND SO, IF I HAD TO DESCRIBE WHAT WE'RE DOING IN THE PLAN, UM, IN A SINGLE SENTENCE, I WOULD SAY THAT WE NEED TO MEET AUSTIN'S RISING ENERGY NEEDS WHILE ENABLING AN EQUITABLE CLEAN ENERGY TRANSITION, AND DO THIS IN A WAY THAT REFLECTS OUR COMMUNITY'S VALUES AND OUR COMMUNITY VALUES, RELIABILITY, AFFORDABILITY, AND ENVIRONMENTAL SUSTAINABILITY. 
          AND THOSE THINGS DON'T ALWAYS, UH, WORK EXACTLY IN ALIGNMENT WITH EACH OTHER. 
          SOMETIMES THERE'S TENSIONS BETWEEN THE TWO, AND SO IT, IT CAU IT, IT CREATES SOME, SOME TOUGH DECISIONS. 
          UM, SO I WANNA TAKE A STEP BACK, UM, UH, JUST IN CASE, UH, I WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME LEVEL PLAYING FIELD. 
          UM, JUST WHAT IS A RESOURCE PLAN, RIGHT? THAT AUSTIN'S HAS A, A MORE, UM, ELABORATE AND FANCY NAME, BUT A LOT OF UTILITIES CREATE, UH, RESOURCE PLANS, AND THEY'RE ESSENTIALLY DOCUMENTED EFFORTS TO GUIDE A UTILITIES RESOURCE DECISIONS. 
          UM, A LOT OF TIMES THIS IS SPECIFICALLY RELATED TO, UH, SOMEONE'S SUPPLY PORTFOLIO, BUT WITHIN AUSTIN, IT'S VERY MUCH OUR SUPPLY AND OUR DEMAND PORTFOLIO. 
          UM, AS A VERTICALLY INTEGRATED UTILITY IN A DEREGULATED MARKET, WE'RE IN A UNIQUE POSITION TO BE ABLE TO WORK ON BOTH SIDES OF THAT 
          [01:50:01]
EQUATION. 
          UM, HISTORICALLY, FOR RESOURCE PLANS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, UH, THE PRIMARY OBJECTIVES HAVE BEEN TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVE ENOUGH GENERATION TO RELIABLY MEET YOUR, YOUR NEEDS AT THE LOWEST POSSIBLE COST. 
          SO IT'S USUALLY AN OPTIMIZATION, UM, UH, AND, AND RELIABILITY, YOU KNOW, ANALYSIS. 
          UM, AND THESE PLANS ARE GENERALLY APPROVED BY A REGULATORY BODY, USUALLY A COMMISSION, UM, LIKE A PUBLIC UTILITY COMMISSION. 
          UM, AND THEY'RE UPDATED USUALLY EVERY THREE TO FIVE YEARS. 
          NOW, SOME OF THIS INFORMATION, UM, IS SUMMARIZED FROM WORK THAT THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN INSTITUTE DID, SAYING THAT GLOBAL TRENDS, UM, HAVE BEEN DRIVING RESOURCE PLAN CHANGES ACROSS THE INDUSTRY. 
          AND, UM, THIS IS REALLY NO SURPRISE TO US, UH, HERE IN AUSTIN. 
          BUT, UH, THERE'S RAPID TECHNOLOGY CHANGE IN SHIFTING COSTS. 
          THERE'S A LOT OF LOAD GROWTH THAT'S BEING SEEN AND BETTER RECOGNITION OF THE, UH, INTERPLAY BETWEEN THE GENERATION AND THE TRANSMISSION DISTRIBUTION SIDES OF THINGS. 
          UM, THERE ARE, UH, THERE, THERE'S EVOLVING FEDERAL AND STATE POLICIES, WHICH WE ARE CERTAINLY SEEING OR ANTICIPATING, UM, NOW WITH, UH, THE RECENT, UM, ELECTION RESULTS. 
          AND THEN, UM, PEOPLE ARE HAVING MORE AND MORE AWARENESS OF WHAT, UH, FACTS ABOUT THEIR, UM, WHERE THEIR, THEIR ENERGY IS COMING FROM, UM, AND THINKING ABOUT IT NOT ONLY WITH RELATIONSHIP TO WHAT IS ON THEIR BILL, BUT ALSO ABOUT, UH, LOCAL JOBS AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, AIR IMPACTS AND, AND ALL KINDS OF THINGS. 
          SO, UM, THERE'S A GREATER STAKEHOLDER AWARENESS, UM, AND EDUCATION LEVEL AND REALLY A NEED, UM, TO, UH, HAVE A BROAD INCLUSIVITY WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, UH, MAKING DECISIONS RELATED TO THESE TYPES OF RESOURCE PLANS. 
          AND SO, UM, MANY OF YOU MAY BE FAMILIAR, BUT, UM, AUSTIN ENERGY, UH, FIRST SET, IT'S A RENEWABLE PRODUCTION GOALS IN 2003 IN A STRATEGIC PLAN, UM, AND THEN IN AN AUSTIN CLIMATE PROTECTION PLAN. 
          AND THEN IN 2010, WE STARTED CREATING, UM, THE AUSTIN ENERGY GENERATION RESOURCE AND CLIMATE PROTECTION PLAN. 
          WHAT IS, WHAT THE PLAN IS CURRENTLY KNOWN BY. 
          AND EVERY YEAR OVER YEAR, WE HAVE SET, UM, REALLY FURTHER AGGRESSIVE GOALS, UM, THAT HAVE LED US TO BE A LEADER ON THE PATH TO CARBON FREE. 
          UM, AT SOME POINT IN TIME, THE, THE GOALS CHANGED FROM RENEWABLE ENERGY PERCENTAGES TO CARBON FREE PERCENTAGES. 
          UM, AND TODAY OUR GOAL IS A HUNDRED PERCENT CARBON FREE BY 2035. 
          UM, THIS GRAPH SHOWS A, UM, SET OF HOW MUCH, UM, ENERGY, UH, THIS IS, THIS IS ENERGY GENERATED, UH, BY, UH, DIFFERENT ENTITIES. 
          AND SO AUSTIN ENERGY'S ENERGY GENERATED IN CALENDAR YEAR, UH, 2023 WAS 74% CARBON FREE. 
          UM, IF YOU COMPARE THAT TO ERCOT, WHICH IS THE STATE OF TEXAS, OR MOST OF THE STATE OF TEXAS AS A WHOLE, UM, THE, UH, ELECTRICITY GENERATED WAS 41% CARBON FREE, AND ACROSS THE UNITED STATES, 40% CARBON FREE. 
          SO WE REALLY DO STAND OUT, UM, ABOVE THE REST IN MANY, MANY WAYS. 
          UM, AND IT'S NOT JUST WITHIN THE STATE OF TEXAS. 
          UM, THE, THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT THIS GRAPH IS THAT, UM, AS WITH MOST THINGS, UM, GETTING THAT LAST BIT, UH, THE LAST MILE, IF YOU WILL, IS ALWAYS THE TOUGHEST. 
          THERE ARE INCREASED COSTS AND MORE TENSIONS, UM, AND THAT IS, UM, INCREDIBLY TRUE TODAY AS WELL. 
          AND SO, WE FACE A NUMBER OF CURRENT DAY CHALLENGES, AND, UH, MANY OF THESE WILL SOUND FAMILIAR, UM, TO YOU, UH, JUST AS PEOPLE IN GENERAL. 
          AND THEN DEPENDING ON, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THESE WILL BE A LITTLE BIT MORE INDUSTRY SPECIFIC. 
          UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE INCREASES IN, UM, EXTREME WEATHER AND CLIMATE RISK. 
          EVERYONE IS VERY WELL AWARE OF THAT. 
          UM, AND IT IMPACTS, UH, THESE DECISIONS AND, UM, AND OUR WORK GREATLY, UM, EXTREME GROWTH IN, IN TERMS OF POPULATION AND ENERGY CONSUMPTION. 
          THAT'S NOT ONLY THE ELECTRIFICATION THAT Y'ALL HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, BUT ALSO THINGS LIKE DATA CENTERS AND AI, UM, AND, AND CERTAINLY, UM, ELECTRIC VEHICLES, UM, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, A DIFFERENT FORM OF ELECTRIFICATION. 
          UM, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF ERCOT MARKET CHANGES, UM, AND INCREASING COSTS. 
          AND IN SOME CASES, WE'RE SEEING THAT IN THE FORM OF, UH, TRANSMISSION CONGESTION, THERE'S, UH, MORE SUPPLY, UM, THAN THERE IS WIRES TO BRING POWER FROM WHERE IT'S BEING, UM, GENERATED TO THE LOAD CENTERS, ESPECIALLY ON THE HIGHEST DEMAND DAYS. 
          AND, UM, SO WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS, UH, UH, HIGH PRICING, UM, HERE TO SERVE OUR, OUR CUSTOMERS, UM, IN THE AUSTIN AREA, AND AS WELL AS VOLATILE PRICING. 
          UM, THERE'S ALSO FINANCIAL RISK, UM, ASSOCIATED WITH SOME OF THESE DECISIONS. 
          UM, THIS HAS A LOT TO DO WITH HOW MUCH CASH WE, UM, HAVE TO HAVE ON HAND TO BE ABLE TO RESPOND TO EXTREME WEATHER EVENTS OR EXTREME CONDITIONS, UM, IN THE ERCOT MARKET, WHETHER IT'S A REALLY HOT DAY, UM, OR IT IS A, THAT HAS A LOT OF CONGESTION, OR IT'S A, UH, EXTREME COLD DAY, UM, OR EVENT LIKE WINTER STORM 
          [01:55:01]
URI. 
          AND THEN ALSO, UM, WE HAVE, UH, RETIRED SOME, REPLACED SOME, UH, POWER PLANTS, UM, IN THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS THAT, UM, HAS MADE OUR LOCAL, UM, SOURCES OF GENERATION REDUCED AND HAS COME, CREATED SOME CHALLENGES FOR US. 
          SO, UM, THE EXISTING PLAN WAS ADOPTED IN MARCH OF 2020, AND IT INCLUDED A PHRASE THAT, UM, ASKED FOR THE ELECTRIC ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION TO ASSESS, UH, IN 20 BY 2022, WHETHER OR NOT, UH, CONDITIONS HAD CHANGED AND THE PLAN NEEDED TO BE UPDATED. 
          AND, UH, CERTAINLY, ALTHOUGH IT WAS JUST FOUR YEARS AGO, THE ENERGY, UM, ELECTRICITY LANDSCAPE HAS CHANGED VERY DRASTICALLY, UM, FOR ALL OF THE REASONS THAT I STATED ON THE PREVIOUS SLIDE. 
          UM, AS WELL AS A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR, UM, FEDERAL GRANTS AND INCENTIVES AND THINGS LIKE THAT. 
          AND SO THE ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION, UM, SAID, UH, WE RECOMMEND THAT THE PLAN BE UPDATED. 
          AUSTIN ENERGY ABSOLUTELY AGREED WITH THAT. 
          WE WERE SEEING, UM, A LOT OF CHALLENGES UNDER THE EXISTING PLAN AND, UM, AND, AND, UH, REALLY NEEDED SOME DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITIES AND WAYS THAT WE CAN INNOVATIVELY APPROACH, UH, AUSTIN'S ENERGY NEEDS. 
          AND, UH, CITY COUNCIL, UM, UNDER A RESOLUTION THAT WAS SPONSORED BY COUNCIL MEMBER ALLISON ALTER, UM, ISSUED A RESOLUTION THAT DIRECTED US TO, UH, UPDATE THE PLAN. 
          UM, WE STARTED THAT EFFORT. 
          THEY SAID UPDATE THE PLAN AFTER A TRANSMISSION STUDY WAS DONE. 
          UH, WE STARTED THAT EFFORT, UM, AFTER THE SUMMER OF 23, AND THEN, UM, EARLIER THIS SPRING, DECIDED THAT, AND UPDATES THE PLAN REALLY WASN'T SUFFICIENT. 
          UM, AND THAT WE REALLY NEEDED A MORE ROBUST STAKEHOLDER PROCESS, UM, AND MORE STEPS TO EDUCATE PEOPLE ABOUT, UH, ALL THE VARIOUS COMPLEX, UM, COMPONENTS OF WHAT WE WERE FACING AND, UH, WHAT OPTIONS WE HAD TO, TO HELP WORK, UM, AND, AND SOLVE OR SERVE AUSTIN'S, UM, ENERGY NEEDS IN THE FUTURE. 
          AND SO, UM, WE DETERMINED WE NEEDED A FULL PLAN REFRESH, WHICH WE'RE REFERRING TO AS THE 2035 PLAN. 
          AND, UH, THAT IS WHAT WE'RE DOING, UH, SUMMARIZING HERE, UM, IN SOME WAYS TODAY, UM, RECOGNIZING THAT THE ENERGY LANDSCAPE HAS CHANGED GREAT GREATLY. 
          UM, IT REALLY IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY, UM, AS THE ELECTRIC UTILITY TO TAKE ACTION TO, UM, WE WANNA EXPAND UPON ALL THE ACHIEVEMENTS OF THE PREVIOUS PLANS, BUT WE ALSO NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE MEETING OUR COMMUNITY'S NEEDS. 
          AND SO WE DID AN EXTENSIVE, UH, COMMUNITY STAKEHOLDER PROCESS, AND WE WORKED VERY DEEPLY WITH THE ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION AND THE CITY COUNCIL, UM, IN, IN ALL OF OUR PROCESSES, UM, ULTIMATELY TO LIVE UP TO OUR MISSION OF SAFELY DELIVERING CLEAN, AFFORDABLE, AND RELIABLE ENERGY AND EXCELLENT CUSTOMER SERVICE. 
          SO, UM, WE REACHED OUT TO A NUMBER OF, UM, COMMUNITY, I'M SORRY, UH, COMMUNITY, WHICH I'LL SHOW ON THE NEXT SLIDE. 
          AND, UM, AND INDUSTRY EXPERTS TO HELP FILL, UM, NEEDS TO, UH, ESSENTIALLY, UH, SUPPORT THE, UM, ANALYTIC WORKS AND THE EXPERTISE OF THE AUSTIN ENERGY STAFF. 
          AND TO ANSWER A LOT OF QUESTIONS THAT WE, UM, EXPERIENCED WHEN WE STARTED DO TRYING TO DO THE 2030 UPDATE. 
          AND I THINK THAT I ACTUALLY REVIEWED THIS SLIDE WITH YOU WHEN I VISITED, UM, EARLIER THIS YEAR. 
          UM, AND SO I WON'T SPEND TOO MUCH TIME ON IT, BUT WHEN WE GET TO THE END, IF YOU'D LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT ANY ASPECT OF THIS, I'M HAPPY TO DISCUSS. 
          UM, I, I MENTIONED EARLY ON ABOUT THE, UH, STAKEHOLDER AWARENESS AND THE, UM, INCLUSIVITY ASPECT. 
          AND SO WE NEEDED TO GO DEEP IN THE PAST, THE PLANS WERE DEVELOPED BY, UM, A SMALLER WORKING GROUP THAT OFTEN HAD SOME MEMBERS FROM THE RMC, SEVERAL MEMBERS FROM THE EUC, AND THEN SOME OTHER, UM, CONCERNED, UH, PARTICIPANTS. 
          AND IT TENDED TO BE KIND OF THE SAME GROUP OF PEOPLE OVER AND OVER AGAIN IN A SMALL GROUP OF, UM, FOLKS THAT, THAT GOT REALLY, UM, DEEP INTO THE WEEDS. 
          BUT WE STARTED HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH PEOPLE WHO SAID, OKAY, WAIT, I DON'T EVEN FOLLOWING WHAT YOU'RE DOING ANYMORE. 
          EVEN SOME OF OUR COUNCIL MEMBERS, THEY SAID, BUT I KNOW WHAT WE VALUE IN THE UTILITY, AND WE KNOW WHAT, WHAT OUR OUR OUR CUSTOMERS, NOT OUR CUSTOMERS, EXCUSE ME, THE COMMUNITY, UM, IN OUR DISTRICTS WANT, AND WE REALLY NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE LISTENING TO THE PEOPLE. 
          AND SO, UM, WE PULLED TOGETHER A GROUP OF OVER 40 DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS, UM, THAT YOU SEE REPRESENTED HERE. 
          AND THESE ARE FOLKS WHO, UH, COME FROM ALL DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF THE CITY OF AUSTIN AND SURROUNDING AREAS. 
          AND, UM, THEY BRING A VERY DIVERSE GROUP OF VOICES THAT, UM, HELP US UNDERSTAND THE STORIES OF ALL THE PEOPLE THAT WE SERVE. 
          AND SO, THROUGH STRUCTURED DIALOGUE, UM, WE MET FIVE DIFFERENT TIMES OVER SIX MONTHS, AND HAD, UM, SOME IN-DEPTH WORKSHOPS HERE IN THIS VERY ROOM AND DISCUSSED WITH THEM, UM, YOU KNOW, BASIS BASICS OF AUSTIN ENERGY 1 0 1, AND, UH, WHAT IS A RESOURCE GENERATION PLAN, 
          [02:00:01]
AND WHAT KIND OF PROBLEMS ARE WE TRYING TO SOLVE, AND WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT? WHAT, WHAT DO YOU WANNA SEE? WHAT, WHAT ARE YOUR VALUES? WHAT ARE YOUR PRIORITIES? UM, WE PLAYED SOME GAMES WITH THEM. 
          WE, WE LISTENED, WE TOOK NOTES, AND, AND THEN WE WENT AND SAID, HERE'S WHAT WE HEARD, IS THAT WHAT YOU MEANT? AND THEN WE TOOK THAT FEEDBACK, AND IT WAS A VERY ITERATIVE AND ENLIGHTENING PROCESS, UM, FOR ALL. 
          AND SO THE NEXT COUPLE OF SLIDES ARE GONNA SHARE THE OUTCOME OF WHAT, UM, WE GOT FROM, FROM THAT ENGAGEMENT. 
          UM, SO WE HEARD A NUMBER OF THINGS FROM STAKEHOLDERS, BUT IF WE SUMMARIZED IT, UM, THEY, THEY SAID THAT THEY VALUED RELIABILITY AS A TOP PRIORITY, AND THEY REFERENCED THAT, UM, IN THEIR STORIES TIME AND AGAIN, BUT THEY, UM, ALSO VALUE AFFORDABILITY AND ENVIRONMENTAL SUSTAINABILITY. 
          AND NO ONE WENT COMPLETELY EXTREME ON ANY ONE OF THOSE. 
          THERE'S ALWAYS A RANGE, BUT ACROSS THE BOARD, UM, THE GROUP DID PUT RELIABILITY AS THE TOP PRIORITY. 
          UM, AND SO IT REALLY DID, UM, KIND OF, UH, SHINE A LIGHT ON A COUPLE OF THINGS. 
          ONE WAS THAT THE PLAN THAT WE'RE UNDER RIGHT NOW, UM, HAD, UH, A LOT OF WORK RELATED TO ENVIRONMENTAL SUSTAINABILITY WITH AFFORDABILITY GUARDRAILS. 
          AND WHAT WE WROTE, WHAT WE RECOGNIZED WAS THAT, UM, IN THE CURRENT, IN THE PREVIOUS ENERGY LANDSCAPE, WE WERE ABLE TO MAKE MORE AND MORE AGGRESSIVE MOVES, UM, TO TAKE CARE OF A LOT OF LOW HANGING FRUIT AND REALLY BE A LEADER, UM, IN ENVIRONMENTAL SUSTAINABILITY WITH, WITH NOT, WITHOUT EVER PUTTING AFFORDABILITY OR RELIABILITY AT RISK. 
          AND NOW THAT WE'RE AT THE FINAL MARGINAL SPACES OF IT, AND GIVEN OUR CURRENT ENERGY LANDSCAPE, THERE ARE REALLY TENSIONS THAT WE SEE, AND PEOPLE START TO FEEL THAT A LOT MORE. 
          AND SO WE, UM, WE, WE REALLY KIND OF HAD TO TAKE A DIFFERENT APPROACH WITH THIS, UM, PLAN, KNOWING THAT OUR GOAL IS ALREADY 100%, HOW ARE WE GOING TO GET TO 100% IS REALLY WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE. 
          UM, AND THEN ACROSS ALL VALUES, ENERGY EQUITY CAME UP TIME AND TIME AGAIN. 
          UM, AND IT CAME UP IN MANY DIFFERENT WAYS. 
          WE STARTED SPENDING A LOT OF TIME TALKING ABOUT WHAT DOES ENERGY EQUITY MEAN TO YOU? AND REALLY, PEOPLE KEPT TALKING ABOUT PROTECTING OUR MOST VULNERABLE POPULATIONS, AND WE SAID, WELL, HELP US UNDERSTAND WHO ARE YOUR MOST VULNER VULNERABLE POPULATIONS? AND THE LIST WAS VERY, VERY DIVERSE. 
          UM, AND, AND, UH, AND THEN ALSO PEOPLE SAID, WELL, IT'S ABOUT ENERGY BILLS, AND IT'S ABOUT FENCE LINE POLLUTION AND WHERE YOU LIVE COMPARED TO POLLUTING SOURCES, AND IT'S ALSO ABOUT WHO GETS IMPACTED WHEN THEIR POWER IS OUT. 
          AND SO WE SAID, YES, IT'S ALL OF THOSE THINGS, AND WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE, WE INCORPORATE EQUITY, UM, INTO A NUMBER, TO, TO EVERY, EVERY DECISION WE MAKE. 
          AND I THINK THAT, UM, US AND ENERGY DOES THAT IN MANY WAYS THROUGH THINGS LIKE THE CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE PROGRAM AND ALL OF THE CUSTOMER SOLUTIONS PROGRAMS THAT RICHARD AND SARAH AND THEIR TEAMS, UM, PROVIDE. 
          BUT WE, IT JUST EMPHASIZED AGAIN, HOW EVERY DECISION WE MAKE HAS TO BE ROOTED IN EQUITY. 
          AND SO, AS A RESULT OF, UM, THIS PROCESS OF LISTENING TO THE COMMUNITY AND, UM, OUR INDUSTRY EXPERTS, UM, WE KNEW THAT WE NEEDED TO SET STANDARDS IN THE PLAN THAT REFLECTED OUR COMMUNITY'S VALUES, WHILE PROVIDING THE FLEXIBILITY TO ULTIMATELY GET THROUGH THE NEXT DECADE AND, AND PROVIDE A, UM, A BRIGHTER AUSTIN THAT THAT PROVIDES IT RELIABLY, AFFORDABLY AND SUSTAINABILITY SUSTAINABLY. 
          SO, UH, THESE ARE THE ULTIMATE END STATEMENTS THAT CAME FROM THE COMMUNITY. 
          UM, I CALL THESE VALUE STATEMENTS, AND IF I HAD TO DESCRIBE THESE, I WOULD SAY THIS IS, UH, WHAT THESE WORDS, WHAT THESE VALUES MEAN TO THE COMMUNITY. 
          UM, AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TAKE A GROUP OF 40 DIVERSE VOICES AND BRING THEM TOGETHER, WE TOOK PHRASES, WE HEARD TIME AND AGAIN, AND WE PUT THEM TOGETHER INTO THESE STATEMENTS. 
          THEN WE SHARED THEM DURING, UH, WORKSHOP FOUR. 
          WE TOOK THEIR FEEDBACK, WE MADE EDITS TO IT, WE WENT BACK AND, AND, UM, SENT IT BACK TO THEM AGAIN AND SAID, WHAT DO YOU THINK NOW? AND THIS IS WHAT RESULTED, UM, AND, AND THE PHRASES THAT ARE BOLDED ARE REALLY, UM, KIND OF KEY WORDS THAT DRIVE AND HAVE, UM, BEEN INCORPORATED INTO OUR WORK ALL ALONG THE WAY. 
          UM, AND THEN WE DID THE SAME WITH, UH, PLAN OBJECTIVE STATEMENTS. 
          AND YOU'LL NOTICE HERE THAT THERE'S, UH, ONLY THREE WHERE THERE WERE FOUR VALUES. 
          AND THAT'S BECAUSE EQUITY IS BAKED INTO EACH ONE OF THE PLAN OBJECTIVES. 
          AND SO, UM, THE, WE DID THE SAME THING WHERE WE TOOK, WE WROTE THEM, ASKED THEM TO ACTUALLY DO A SURVEY AND VOTE ON THEM IN VARIOUS WAYS. 
          WE COMBINED THE WORDS, UM, BASED OFF OF THE SURVEY RESULTS, ASKED FOR FEEDBACK, MADE EDITS. 
          IT WAS A VERY, VERY ITERATIVE PROCESS OF ACTIVE LISTENING. 
          UM, AND WHAT THE, UH, COMMUNITY SAID WAS, WE NEED TO PRIORITIZE RELIABILITY AND RESILIENCE. 
          WE NEED TO MITIGATE THE RISK OF LONG DURATION STATEWIDE AND LOCALIZED SYSTEM OUTAGE EVENTS, AND PROVIDE TIMELY COMMUNICATIONS. 
          AND WE NEED TO LIMIT THE EXPOSURE OF VULNERABLE POPULATIONS TO OUTAGES FOR AFFORDABILITY. 
          WE NEED TO LIMIT THE IMPACT OF BILL INCREASES TO THE MOST VULNERABLE CUSTOMERS, WHILE ALLOWING ACCEPTABLE AND PREDICTABLE 
          [02:05:01]
INCREASES OF GREATER THAN 2% FOR OTHER CUSTOMERS IN SUPPORT OF RELIABILITY AND ENVIRONMENTAL SUSTAINABILITY. 
          AND FOR ENVIRONMENTAL SUSTAINABILITY. 
          THEY SAID, REDUCE EMISSIONS AND OTHER ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, BUT MITIGATE ANY REMAINING EMISSIONS WHILE SUPPORTING AFFORDABILITY AND RELIABILITY. 
          AND SO IN THE OBJECTIVES, IT NOT ONLY KIND OF GIVES US A GUIDING LIGHT, BUT IT ALSO HELPS SET THE, UH, PRIORITY, UM, IN TERMS OF THE RELATIVENESS TO EACH OTHER, EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE ALL INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT. 
          IT'S JUST THAT THERE ARE TRADE-OFFS WITH EVERYTHING, AND THERE'S THAT WORD AGAIN. 
          UM, WE ENDED UP THEN SPENDING A TON OF TIME, UM, ALSO DOING, UM, ANALYTICAL WORK TO LOOK AT DOZENS AND DOZENS OF WAYS TO MEET AUSTIN ENERGY'S, AUSTIN'S FUTURE ENERGY NEEDS. 
          AND, UM, WE DID THIS WORK IN GREAT DEPTH WITH THE ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION, WITH YOUR COLLEAGUES THERE. 
          AND WE DID IT TO UNDERSTAND TRADE-OFFS AND WHAT THE RESOURCE PLANS, UM, NEEDS TO INCORPORATE. 
          AND SO THE PLAN ULTIMATELY IS A, UH, A COMBINATION OF THE VALUES AND OBJECTIVES THAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT, PLUS, UH, SOME ACTIONS, WHICH IN, IN LAYMAN'S TERMS WE CALL A TOOLKIT. 
          UM, AND THE TOOLKIT IS LIKE, WHAT ARE YOU GONNA PUT, WHAT KIND OF RESOURCES ARE YOU GOING TO USE AND HOW ARE YOU GONNA USE THOSE RESOURCES TO MEET THE NEEDS, UM, AS THE, AS THE ENERGY LANDSCAPE CHANGES? AND SO THE TOOLKIT IS INTENDED TO PROVIDE FLEXIBILITY TO MANAGE TRADE-OFFS AND CHANGING CONDITIONS. 
          AND, UH, WE DID THAT IN, UM, TO, TO BE IN ACCORDANCE WITH SOME OF THE FEEDBACK THAT WE GOT FROM DR. MICHAEL WEBER, WHO IS AN ENERGY, UM, EXPERT AT DOC, UH, UT. 
          UM, AND HE SAID, EFFECTIVE POLICY DESIGN KEEPS TRADE-OFFS IN MIND AND IS OUTCOMES BASED RATHER THAN PRESCRIPTIVE. 
          AND SO, UM, WHEN I TALK ABOUT OUR TOOLKIT, UH, SOMETIMES PEOPLE SAY, WHAT, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? THAT'S NOT LIKE A FORMAL TERM IN TERMS OF PLANNING, UM, BUT WE THINK ABOUT WHAT TOOLS ARE IN YOUR TOOLBOX. 
          AND, UM, WHAT I START, I THINK ABOUT FOR MAJOR CATEGORIES AND THE ORDER OF THESE IS IMPORTANT, AND THAT'S INTENDED TO BE REFLECTED HERE. 
          UM, SO FIRST AND FOREMOST, WE NEED, WE, UH, OUR PLAN HAS TO, UM, PRIORITIZE CUSTOMER ENERGY SOLUTIONS. 
          UM, AND I KNOW THAT I, I IMAGINE I'M AMONGST, UM, GOOD COMPANY HERE WHEN I SAY THAT BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT THE MOST, UH, RELIABLE AND COST EFFECTIVE, UM, AND, AND THE CLEANEST, UH, UH, ELECTRON TO PROVIDE TO SOMEONE IS TO NOT HAVE TO PROVIDE THEM AN ELECTRON TO BEGIN WITH. 
          AND SO, UM, WHAT CAN WE DO IN TERMS OF ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND DEMAND RESPONSE? AND WHAT CAN WE DO IN TERMS OF SUPER HYPER LOCALIZED SOLUTIONS LIKE ROOFTOP SOLAR AND, UM, CUSTOMER SIGHTED BATTERIES? Y'ALL ARE INCREDIBLY FAMILIAR WITH THE PROGRAMS THAT AUSTIN ENERGY HAS, AND HOW MUCH MORE CAN WE DO THERE? UM, KNOWING THAT WE HAVE DECADES OF EXPERIENCE IN THAT AREA. 
          UM, HOW CAN WE EXPAND UPON THOSE PROGRAMS AND MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE, UM, UH, DO EVERYTHING WE CAN, UH, BEFORE WE EVEN PUT OTHER TOOLS IN THE TOOLKIT? UM, LOOKING AT THE FUTURE OF, OF, UM, HIGH DEMAND GROWTH AND, UH, OUR CURRENT RISKS AS WELL AS OUR FUTURE RISKS, WE KNOW THAT WE NEED TO LEVERAGE LOCAL SOLUTIONS THAT WE CAN NO LONGER RELY ON, UM, SIMPLY THE, UH, THE, THE PLETHORA OF WIND AND SOLAR THAT'S IN WEST TEXAS BECAUSE THE REST OF THE GRID ISN'T SITUATED SO THAT WE CAN BRING IT ALL IN, UM, AT A RELIABLE OR AFFORDABLE WAY. 
          AND SO WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE SUFFICIENT LOCAL SOLUTIONS. 
          UM, THAT DOES INCLUDE DOING OUR PART WITH REGARDS TO TRANSMISSION AND, UM, AND A NUMBER OF OTHER THINGS. 
          UM, AND I JUST REALIZED I WAS GOING TOO DEEP IN HERE. 
          I'LL, I'M STARTING TO PRESENT SOME THINGS THAT ARE ON THE NEXT SLIDE, SO, UM, I'LL COME BACK TO THAT. 
          UM, WE ALSO HAVE OUR GOALS TO ACHIEVE DECARBONIZATION, AND, UM, THOSE ARE INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT. 
          UM, AND WE, UH, REMAIN COMMITTED TO THE CARBON FREE BY 2035 GOAL. 
          UM, BUT WE KNOW THAT, UH, GIVEN TODAY'S CHALLENGES, IT WOULD BE REALLY HARD TO REACH THAT GOAL. 
          UM, A LOT OF UTILITIES ARE, UM, SAYING, PUTTING A FURTHER DATE OUT THERE, 20 40, 20 50, BECAUSE THE TECHNOLOGY SIMPLY, UM, ISN'T THERE, UM, ACROSS THE BOARD. 
          AND SO WE, UM, HAVE A CULTURE OF INNOVATION THAT WE EMBRACE VERY MUCH HERE AT AUSTIN ENERGY, BUT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE CONTINUE TO FOSTER THAT SO THAT, UM, AS TECHNOLOGY EVOLVES AND EMERGES, WE CAN ADOPT THAT, UH, THOSE SOLUTIONS, UH, TO HELP US ACHIEVE OUR GOALS. 
          SO, UM, THAT TOOLKIT WITH A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL, WHICH I WAS STARTING TO DESCRIBE ON THE PREVIOUS SLIDE, UM, IS WRITTEN UP HERE. 
          UM, THIS SLIDE WAS ACTUALLY WRITTEN, UH, LAST WEEK SINCE THEN, UM, LAST NIGHT AND EARLIER TODAY, WE'VE HAD REALLY IN-DEPTH CONVERSATIONS WITH OTHER COMMISSIONERS AND, UM, CITY COUNCIL. 
          AND SO IT'S EVOLVED IN IN VARIOUS WAYS. 
          UM, BUT IT GIVES YOU A FLAVOR OF WHAT TYPES OF, UM, ITEMS ARE, UH, PROPOSED IN THE PLAN, UM, THAT WILL BE POSTED NEXT WEEK, UM, FOR REVIEW. 
          AND SO, UM, 
          [02:10:01]
AGAIN, WE PRIORITIZE THE CUSTOMER ENERGY SOLUTIONS, THEN WE LEVERAGE THE LOCAL SOLUTIONS. 
          AND THAT INCLUDES A NUMBER OF, OF, UM, SOLUTIONS, INCLUDING WHERE I WAS STARTING TO GO WITH THE TRANSMISSION IMPORT CAPACITY. 
          UM, AND THEN, UH, WE, UH, COMMIT OR RECOMMIT OURSELVES TO OUR GOALS TO ACHIEVE DECARBONIZATION, INCLUDING, UM, REFERENCE TO, UH, UH, EXITING COAL. 
          UM, THE PREVIOUS PLAN HAD US, UM, EXITING OUT OF, UH, THE FAYETTE POWER PLANT IN 2022, AND WE WERE UNABLE TO ACHIEVE THAT GOAL. 
          AND SO, UH, BUT WE STILL WANNA GET OUT OF IT AS SOON AS WE POSSIBLY CAN. 
          AND SO WE REAFFIRM THAT HERE. 
          UM, AND LOOK FOR OTHER WAYS TO ENABLE THAT TO HAPPEN. 
          AND THEN, UM, WITH OUR CULTURE OF INNOVATION, UM, THERE'S JUST A SAMPLING OF, OF, UM, TECHNOLOGIES THAT ARE EMERGING, UM, AND OR EVOLVING IN VARIOUS WAYS THAT WE WANNA MAKE SURE WE, WE KEEP, UM, INFORMED AND ABREAST OF, AND ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN. 
          UM, AND ONE OF THOSE IS THE, UM, GEOTHERMAL GENERATION. 
          AND YOU MAY HAVE SEEN THE NEWS RECENTLY ABOUT THE GEOTHERMAL PROJECT THAT WE'RE PILOTING IN, IN EAST TEXAS. 
          AND SO, UM, I KNOW THAT Y'ALL HAD REQUESTED THIS PRESENTATION BECAUSE YOU'RE INTERESTED IN HOW THINGS ARE GOING. 
          SO HERE'S THE TIMEFRAME OF OUR PATH TO ADOPTION. 
          UM, UH, WE PRESENTED TO THE ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION LAST NIGHT, THE UTILITY OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE EARLIER TODAY. 
          UM, VARIOUS COMMISSIONS AND COMMITTEES THROUGHOUT THE REST OF THIS WEEK. 
          OUR PROPOSED 2035 PLAN WILL BE POSTED, UH, NEXT WEEK. 
          THE ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION WILL VOTE ON THEIR RECOMMENDATION IN THE BEGINNING OF DECEMBER. 
          AND THIS IS AN ITEM FOR CONSIDERATION ON THE COUNCIL AGENDA ON DECEMBER 12TH. 
          AND ULTIMATELY, THROUGH ALL OF OUR, UM, COMMUNITY AND, UH, STAKEHOLDER INVOLVEMENT, WE'VE TRIED REALLY HARD TO MAKE SURE THAT WE BUILD A BALANCED PLAN THAT IS FLEXIBLE AND CAN POWER OUR FUTURE. 
          UM, AND, AND WE, THESE ARE JUST A FEW OF THE ACCOLADES THAT WE WANT PEOPLE TO FEEL AND, AND, AND SEE REFLECTED IN THE PLAN WHEN THEY SAY YES. 
          THAT'S WHAT I SEE. 
          THAT'S WHAT I WANTED. 
          THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING FOR, UM, NOT ONLY THE CLEANEST ENERGY PORTFOLIO IN TEXAS, BUT I WOULD, I WOULD DARE TO SAY, UM, ONE OF THE MOST, UH, UH, AGGRESSIVE AND, AND LEADING, UM, PORTFOLIOS, UM, IN, IN THE COUNTRY. 
          UM, THANKS TO A LOT OF THE PROGRAMS, UM, THAT OUR CUSTOMER, UH, ENERGY SOLUTIONS GROUP DOES AS WELL. 
          SO I WILL, UM, PAUSE THERE. 
          UM, AND I'M HAPPY TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE, UH, COMMISSIONERS. 
          UM, I'LL BE GLAD TO MOVE ON WITH QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS, BUT I NEED TO, UH, ASK YOU TO THINK ABOUT THIS. 
          UH, THE ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION IS SCHEDULED TO VOTE ON THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS DECEMBER 2ND. 
          WE ARE NOT SCHEDULED TO VOTE TONIGHT IN ANY WAY. 
          THE PLAN ISN'T OFFICIALLY CREATED. 
          YEAH. 
          UH, DO WE WANT TO MEET IN EARLY DECEMBER OR PUNT THIS? JUST NOT DEAL WITH IT. 
          THINK ABOUT THIS, BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE MEETING, UH, WHEN WE TAKE UP NEW BUSINESS, WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT WHETHER TO POST A MEETING FOR EARLY DECEMBER OR NOT. 
          COMMISSIONERS, ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? IT'S A LOT TO TAKE IN AND, UH, THERE'S A LOT MORE BEHIND IT. 
          COMMISSIONER, UH, LUKI? YES. 
          I'M VERY CURIOUS ABOUT THE GEOTHERMAL PILOT PROJECT YOU'RE DOING IN EAST TEXAS. 
          UH, WHAT KIND OF PROJECT IS IT? SO, IT'S A, UM, FIVE MEGAWATT, UH, UH, PILOT PROJECT THAT USES A CLOSED LOOP, SUPER CRITICAL CO2, UH, TECHNOLOGY THAT, UM, MY UNDERSTANDING, ONE OF THE MAIN BENEFITS IS IT DOESN'T USE, IT'S NOT AS WATER INTENSIVE AS OTHER, UH, TECHNOLOGIES THAT, THAT USE GEOTHERMAL. 
          AND SO, UM, IT'S, IT'S SMALL JUST TO SEE, UM, WE CAN LEARN ABOUT THE OPPORTUNITIES AND THE CHALLENGES ASSOCIATED WITH IT. 
          AND THEN, UM, YOU KNOW, WITH THE HOPE THAT IF, IF THAT'S A GOOD SIGHTING LOCATION, 'CAUSE NOT, WE KNOW ALL, NOT ALL PARTS OF TEXAS ARE, UM, RIPE FOR GEOTHERMAL GENERATION. 
          UM, THEN WE HOPE THAT WE CAN EXPAND IT IN SOME WAY AND ADD MORE GEOTHERMAL TO OUR PORTFOLIO. 
          'CAUSE IT ADDS SOME, UM, DIVERSITY OF FUEL. 
          IT'S CERTAINLY A RENEWABLE SOURCE AND, UM, AND KIND OF OPENS UP NEW DOORS FOR US. 
          SO IS IT GONNA BE JUST GENERATING IN, UH, ENERGY? THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF IT. 
          IT'S, IT, YES, IT GENERATES ELECTRICITY. 
          OKAY. 
          YEAH. 
          COMMISSIONER LUKI, I'VE DONE A LITTLE BIT OF RESEARCH ON THIS. 
          UH, AND, UM, MOST GEOTHERMAL IN THE WORLD IS LOCATED 
          [02:15:01]
NEAR EXISTING, UH, UH, HOT SPRINGS AND GEYSERS. 
          AND WHAT THEY'RE DOING HERE IS THEY'RE INTENTIONALLY DRILLING DEEP IN THE GROUND TO ACCESS THE HEAT RATHER THAN DRILLING NEAR, UH, SPRINGS AND GEYSERS. 
          UH, IN THE PAST, THIS HAS BEEN CONSIDERED TOO COST PROHIBITIVE, BUT NEW DRILLING TECHNOLOGIES, UH, IT'S LIKE FRACKING HAS ACTUALLY CREATED SOMETHING ENVIRONMENTAL. 
          I, I KNOW THAT SOUNDS LIKE A, A CONTRADICTION, BUT THAT'S KIND OF WHAT THIS IS. 
          COOL. 
          WE THINK SO. 
          WE'RE VERY EXCITED ABOUT IT. 
          UH, COMMISSIONERS, ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? FARMER? UH, COMMISSIONER, FARMER, YOU HAVE YOUR VIRTUAL HAND UP TOO. 
          I HAVE MY REAL HAND UP TOO. 
          . 
          UM, I WAS JUST CURIOUS, LIKE, IS WHERE IS THE, THE ACTUAL PLAN AND BREAKDOWN OF WHAT YOU GUYS ARE PROPOSING? LIKE, I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL THE, THE BACKGROUND AND COMMUNITY INPUT AND EVERYTHING, BUT WHEN WE SAW THIS IN PAST ITERATIONS, THERE WAS LIKE AN ACTUAL PLAN THAT WE WERE PRESENTED WITH. 
          IS THAT, UM, IS THAT WHAT'S BEING VOTED ON OR IS, YOU KNOW, LIKE WHAT, WHAT IS THE, THE SUBSTANCE OF THE THING? THE, THE SUBSTANCE OF TODAY'S BRIEFING IS SIMPLY TO INFORM YOU. 
          NO. 
          YEAH, YEAH. 
          SO, SORRY, GO AHEAD. 
          YEAH, I'M GETTING THERE. 
          SO TODAY'S BRIEFING IS SIMPLY TO INFORM YOU OF THE CURRENT STATUS OF OUR PROCESS. 
          UM, THE PLAN, UH, IS BEING DRAFTED, UM, BASED OFF OF ALL THE FEEDBACK THAT WE'VE RECEIVED FROM THE COMMUNITY LAST WEEK, THE ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION YESTERDAY, AND THE CITY COUNCIL UTILITY OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE THIS MORNING. 
          UM, IT'LL BE DRAFTED AND POSTED NEXT WEDNESDAY, AND THEN ACTION WILL BE TAKEN ON IT BY THE ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION, UM, WHICH IS, UH, THE, OUR ADVISORY BODY, UM, WITH REGARDS TO THIS PLAN. 
          UM, AND, UH, AND THEN WITH CITY COUNCIL BOTH IN DECEMBER, SO THE PLAN WILL BE POSTED DECEMBER, NOVEMBER 27TH. 
          OKAY. 
          WELL, WHAT, WHAT WAS IT THAT EUC WAS LOOKING AT AND DISCUSSING? WAS IT THE PRESENTATION THAT WE JUST GOT OR THE ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION RECEIVED? WELL, WE'VE BEEN PRESENTING AND WORKING WITH THE ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION AT LENGTH, UM, EVERY MONTH FOR THE LAST YEAR. 
          AND, UM, AND SOMETIMES WITHIN SOME SPECIAL CALL MEETINGS AND OFFICE HOURS. 
          UM, AND SO WE GAVE THEM A SUMMARY OF THE LATEST. 
          UM, A LOT OF IT WAS THE INFORMATION YOU SEE HERE, BUT WE ALSO DISCUSSED AT LENGTH, UH, A SURVEY THAT WE HAD GIVEN THEM RELATED TO THE MODELING RESULTS AND, UM, WHAT THEY HOPED TO SEE IN THE PLAN. 
          AND SO, UH, YES, WE WERE JUST DISCUSS ESSENTIALLY WHAT I'VE PRESENTED TO YOU, UM, ON, YOU KNOW, THE VALUES AND THE OBJECTIVES AND, UH, THE, THE ITEMS ON THIS TOOLKIT. 
          THESE ARE ESSENTIALLY THE, THE NUTS AND BOLTS OF WHAT'S IN THE PLAN. 
          AND THEN, UM, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHICH TOPICS THEY DON'T SEE THAT THEY WANTED TO SEE, OR WHAT QUESTIONS DO THEY HAVE ABOUT CERTAIN, UM, AREAS THAT ARE IN THIS PLAN. 
          UM, YEAH, I MEAN, I GUESS LIKE WHAT I'M DRIVING AT IS LIKE, WE PREVIOUSLY SAW SOME OF THE MONITORING RESULTS AND SOME OF THERE'S, YOU KNOW, FIVE OR SIX DIFFERENT, UH, GEN PLAN SCENARIOS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT AND, YOU KNOW, WHICH WAY YOU GUYS WERE. 
          OH, I SEE WHAT YOUR QUESTION IS. 
          OKAY. 
          YEAH. 
          LIKE WHAT, WHAT, WHAT IS THE ACTUAL PLAN THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING? SO, WELL, THE ACTUAL PLAN IS NOT, IS NOT, I KNOW THAT'S NOT HAPPEN TOGETHER YET. 
          YES. 
          BUT IN TERMS OF THE MODELING RESULTS, IF, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANNA SEE, UM, THE RESULTS OF, OF THE MODELING, UM, YOU CAN LOOK AT THE VIDEO FROM THE SEPTEMBER 30TH OR OCTOBER 21ST, ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION MEETINGS. 
          UM, WE DOVE VERY DEEP INTO THE MODELING THERE. 
          UM, AND ALSO, UM, UH, ALL THAT INFORMATION IS AVAILABLE. 
          A LOT OF INFORMATION IS AVAILABLE ON THE, UM, SPEAK UP AUSTIN, UH, WEBSITE. 
          IF YOU JUST TYPE IN SPEAK UP AUSTIN RESOURCE GENERATION PLAN, YOU'LL, UM, YOU'LL SEE KIND OF, OF ALL THE TRANSPARENT INFORMATION THAT WE'VE BEEN, UM, WORKING THROUGH AND SHARING WITH THE ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION. 
          SO THAT'S CERTAINLY AVAILABLE. 
          OKAY, GREAT. 
          SO IF, AND I GUESS IF WE WERE TO HAVE A SPECIAL SESSION TO DISCUSS THIS IN DECEMBER, AS I THINK, UH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS WAS ALLUDING TO, UM, WOULD, WE WOULD WANNA HAVE THAT AFTER THE PLAN HAS BEEN PRESENTED OR MADE, MADE PUBLIC, LIKE THE FINAL PLAN, BUT PRIOR TO COUNCIL VOTING ON IT, I, I AM, UM, NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE RESOURCE, UH, MANAGEMENT COMMISSION'S 
          [02:20:01]
ROLE IN THE RESOURCE GENERATION PLAN OTHER THAN TO BE INFORMED AND FOR US TO HEAR, UM, ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE. 
          I THINK IT'S PRETTY CLEAR FROM OUR BYLAWS THAT WE HAVE PURVIEW EXCUSE OVER THIS, UH, HAD PRESENTATIONS ON IT PREVIOUSLY AND HAD A NUMBER OF DISCUSSIONS ON IT. 
          SO I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF MEMBERS OF THIS COMMISSION THAT ARE EITHER INVOLVED IN THE UC OR THE JSC, UM, WHO HAVE PREVIOUSLY VOICED THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE AND FEEL LIKE WE HAVE PURVIEW OVER THIS PROCESS AND WOULD LIKE TO BE MORE INVOLVED. 
          SO I THINK THAT'S KINDA WHERE WE'RE GETTING AT, IS LIKE WANTING TO HAVE MORE OF A SAY IN WHAT THE OPTIONS ARE AND HOW THIS MOVES FORWARD. 
          UH, COMMISSIONER FARMER, IF I, I, I DON'T WANT TO CUT YOU OFF. 
          I DO WANT TO INTERJECT. 
          NO, GO AHEAD. 
          GO AHEAD. 
          I DO WANT TO INTERJECT THAT, UH, UH, MS. MARTIN, UH, HE IS CORRECT. 
          WE'VE HAD SEVERAL MEMBERS OF OUR COMMISSION, INCLUDING MYSELF, UH, WHO, UH, UH, UH, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN HAS BEEN ON, UH, WORKED ON THIS, UH, COMMISSIONER GARY, AND, UH, THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN ONE OR TWO OTHERS AT SOME POINT. 
          AND, UH, SO WE HAVE BEEN PART OF THE WORKING GROUP, UH, THAT HAS BEEN PART OF THIS AS WELL. 
          UH, THE, UH, THIS COMMISSION AND THE ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION BOTH JOINTLY VOTED ON A PREVIOUS GENERATION PLAN. 
          UH, IN FACT, THERE WAS A JOINT MEETING OF THE TWO COMMISSIONS TOGETHER AT ONE POINT. 
          I'M NOT SURE WE NEED TO DO THAT, UH, JOINT MEETING, BUT I'M JUST SAYING THERE IS PRECEDENT. 
          I'M SORRY, COMMISSIONER FARMER, I DID, UH, BREAK IN. 
          YOU MIGHT HAVE HAD OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS BEFORE YOU ASK ANOTHER QUESTION. 
          IF I COULD JUST RESPOND, UM, AND JUST SAY THAT CERTAINLY I KNOW THAT THERE ARE A NUMBER OF, UH, MEMBERS OF THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION WHO SAT ON THE ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION'S WORKING GROUP THAT WAS FORMED, UM, LAST YEAR WHILE WE WERE WORKING ON THE 2030 PLAN UPDATE. 
          AND THEN, UH, AFTER, UH, THAT COMMISSION OR THAT WORKING GROUP PRESENTED ITS RECOMMENDATIONS, AND WE SHIFTED TO A 2035 PLAN, UM, WE MOVED TO A BROADER STAKEHOLDER, UH, GROUP. 
          AND SO, UM, I, I KNOW THAT WE HAD DISCUSSED THIS LAST TIME WE PRESENTED, OR LAST TIME I PRESENTED TO Y'ALL, WAS THAT I WAS HAPPY TO COME AND, AND MAKE SURE THAT I COULD KEEP YOU INFORMED AT YOUR REQUEST. 
          UM, BUT I, UH, YOU KNOW, THE, WE'RE WORKING UNDER THE RESOLUTION THAT SAID WORK WITH THE ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION. 
          AND BECAUSE OF THE TIMEFRAME THAT WE WERE TRYING TO MAKE SURE WE GOT EVERYTHING IN ON, WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, IT SAID THAT THE ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION CAN WORK WITH, YOU KNOW, OTHERS AS WELL, INCLUDING RMC. 
          AND SO WE WERE JUST FUNNELING EVERYTHING THROUGH THE EUC. 
          SO THAT'S JUST WHERE I'M COMING FROM. 
          UH, AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, YOU'RE ABSOLVED OF ANY GUILT . 
          UH, BUT STILL, I THINK WE HAVE PURVIEW SHOULD WE CHOOSE TO TAKE IT. 
          UH, AND AGAIN, I HAVE, I HAVE INTERRUPTED YOU. 
          UH, GO ON COMMISSIONER FARMER, PLEASE. 
          YEAH, THAT, THAT'S ALL I WAS SAYING WAS JUST LIKE, IF WE, UH, SHOW, IF WE CHOOSE TONIGHT TO, TO HAVE ANOTHER MEETING, TO BE ABLE TO DIG INTO THIS MORE DEEPLY, UM, YOU KNOW, LIKE WHEN SHOULD THAT BE? AND IT DOES. 
          I, I THINK THERE'S, I MEAN, I'M CURIOUS, LIKE YOU THINK WE NEED TO VOTE ON IT, BUT, UM, IT SEEMS LIKE THERE IS DEFINITELY INTEREST FROM, UH, THE LION'S SHARE OF THE GROUP TO DIVE INTO THIS MORE DEEPLY. 
          UH, COMMISSIONER DAVIS, UM, I JUST WANT TO MENTION TO MY COLLEAGUE, UH, COMMISSIONER FARMER, UM, SEVERAL MEMBERS OF THIS COMMISSION WERE IN ATTENDANCE AT THIS MORNING'S, UH, AUSTIN ENERGY UTILITY OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE MEETING WHERE, UM, MS. MARTIN PRESENTED, UH, TO COUNSEL ESSENTIALLY. 
          UM, AND I WILL SAY THAT I THINK THAT THERE WERE SOME MORE SPECIFICS IN THAT PRESENTATION AROUND WHAT THAT PLAN MAY CONTAIN, UM, SPECIFICALLY, UH, MAYBE A MIX OF, UH, UTILITY BAT SCALE BATTERIES AND ADDITIONAL NATURAL GAS PEAKER PLANTS. 
          UM, AND THAT'S, THAT WAS THE SENSE THAT I GOT. 
          AND I, I SEE THOSE WORDS UP THERE SOMEWHERE, BUT IT'S NOT AS EXPLICIT AS IT SEEMED TO ME IN WATCHING THOSE PROCEEDINGS THIS MORNING. 
          AND SO, I THINK SOMETHING AROUND, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANNA TAKE A SECOND AND KIND OF TELL US ABOUT THIS COMMISSION, ABOUT THE RATIONALE FOR RECOMMENDING, POSSIBLY RECOMMENDING THAT IN THE PLAN, UM, I THINK THAT WOULD GET TO, UH, MY COLLEAGUE COMMISSIONER FARMER'S QUESTIONS. 
          HAPPY TO DO SO. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UM, SO, SO YES, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SOME WORDS THAT ARE, ARE CLOSER TO THE BOTTOM. 
          I WANNA START AT THE TOP TO MAKE SURE THAT THE WHOLE PICTURE GETS, GETS CAPTURED. 
          UM, SO THE PLAN SAYS, 
          [02:25:01]
UH, ESSENTIALLY RECOGNIZING THE, UH, THE RISK THAT WE ARE CURRENTLY FACING, UM, PREVIOUSLY SHARED, ALL OF THOSE, UH, SLIDES, IF YOU WILL, AND, UH, WORKING INTO A RISING ENERGY NEED. 
          UM, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE FLEXIBILITY AND, AND A LOT OF DIFFERENT TOOLS IN OUR TOOLKIT. 
          AND WE WANNA START WITH THE GREENEST SOLUTIONS, UM, AND CLEANEST SOLUTIONS POSSIBLE, AND THE ONES THAT PREVENT US FROM HAVING TO CREATE MORE SUPPLY. 
          SO WE START ON THE DEMAND SIDE. 
          AND SO THAT'S PRIORITIZING CUSTOMER ENERGY SOLUTIONS. 
          AND YOU SEE, UM, A NUMBER OF THOSE, UH, CATEGORIES THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT A LITTLE BIT ALREADY, BUT ALSO INCLUDING THE GREENHOUSE GAS AVOIDANCE AND THE BENEFICIAL ELECTRIFICATION, WHICH I KNOW IS A MAJOR PART OF THE CONVERSATION YOU JUST HAD. 
          UM, AND SO, UH, RECOGNIZING THAT THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, IT TAKES GREAT EFFORT, UM, AND YOU CAN GET GREAT RESULTS. 
          UM, BUT CUSTOMER ENERGY SOLUTIONS ALONE CANNOT, UH, MEET ALL OF AUSTIN'S ENERGY NEEDS. 
          AND SO WE ALSO NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE LEVERAGE LOCAL SOLUTIONS. 
          SO AGAIN, YOU MAXIMIZE THE DSM FIRST, AND THEN YOU SAY, WELL, THERE'S A LOT OF CLEAN ENERGY THAT IS, UM, OUTSIDE THE STATE, AND WE WANNA MAKE SURE WE CAN BRING IN AS, I'M SORRY, OUTSIDE OF THE CITY, FORGIVE ME. 
          AND WE WANNA BE ABLE TO BRING IN AS MUCH OF THAT AS POSSIBLE. 
          AND SO, UM, WE ARE PRIORITIZING TRANSMISSION IMPORT CAPACITY, UM, RECOGNIZING THAT WE HAVE, UM, SOME CONTROL OVER, UH, OVER TRANSMISSION, ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, BASED OFF OF WHERE OUR INFRASTRUCTURE SITS, BUT NOT NECESSARILY FROM AUSTIN OR FROM WHERE THE GENERATION IS ALL THE WAY TO AUSTIN. 
          AND SO THERE'S, UM, AND THAT ALSO HAS THE LONGEST LEAD TIME. 
          UM, BUILDING TRANSMISSION IN THE STATE OF TEXAS CAN TAKE FIVE TO SIX TO SEVEN YEARS. 
          UM, AND SO WE, WE WANT TO, AND WE ALREADY HAVE STARTED, UM, WORKING ON, UH, PROJECTS THAT WILL INCREASE OUR IMPORT CAPACITY, BUT IT'S NOT SUFFICIENT. 
          SO THEN YOU STILL HAVE A GAP OF WHAT YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU CAN SERVE, UM, THE COMMUNITY OF AUSTIN AND THE SURROUNDING AREAS IN A RELIABLE AND AFFORDABLE WAY. 
          AND SO THERE'S ESSENTIALLY, UH, TWO OTHER, UM, TECHNOLOGIES THAT ARE READILY AVAILABLE, UM, THAT CAN PROVIDE LOCAL SOLUTIONS. 
          AND THOSE ARE UTILITY SCALE BATTERIES AND NATURAL GAS PEAKER UNITS. 
          AND SO, UM, THERE ARE TRADE OFFS ASSOCIATED WITH EACH ONE OF THOSE. 
          UM, BUT WHAT WE ULTIMATELY, UH, TALK ABOUT IS A HYBRID APPROACH, UM, ONE THAT INCLUDES UTILITY SCALE BATTERIES, UM, TO, UH, TAKE CARE OF ANYTIME YOU NEED, UH, EXTRA ENERGY, UH, THAT YOU, WHEN YOU ONLY NEED IT FOR A SHORT DURATION. 
          SO USE THAT FIRST. 
          UM, ESPECIALLY ESSENTIALLY 'CAUSE ONE OF THE BENEFITS OF BATTERIES IS THAT THEY CERTAINLY CAN BE CLEANER, UM, IF THEY'RE CHARGED WITH, UH, RENEWABLE SOURCES. 
          SO, SO, SO FAR THE GOAL IS TO, UM, FILL OUR PORTFOLIO WITH AS CLEAN AS POSSIBLE, UM, SOLUTIONS. 
          UH, BUT SOMETIMES YOU HAVE LONGER, UM, ENERGY NEEDS, WHETHER IT'S A PARTICULARLY HOT DAY OR A SERIES OF HOT DAYS IN THE SUMMER, OR A PARTICULARLY COLD SNAP, UM, WHEN, UH, YOU KNOW, YOUR BATTERIES AREN'T GONNA GET YOU THROUGH. 
          AND, UM, AND THE WEATHER DEPENDENT OR PERHAPS THE, UH, DEMAND RESPONSE OR ENERGY EFFICIENCY, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS WON'T, WON'T BE SUFFICIENT. 
          AND SO WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE, UM, UH, NATURAL GAS PEAKER UNITS AVAILABLE. 
          AND I, I SPENT A, A FAIR AMOUNT OF TIME TODAY TALKING ABOUT WHAT THOSE ARE. 
          UM, AND I HAD A PHOTO, SO NOW I, I WISH I HAD THAT SLIDE TO BE ABLE TO SHARE WITH YOU. 
          BUT, UM, ESSENTIALLY PEAKER UNITS ARE, ARE JET ENGINES, UM, AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE LIKE JET ENGINES THAT YOU WOULD SEE ON THE SIDE OF AN AIRPLANE, BUT THEY'RE CONNECTED TO A GENERATOR, THEY'RE HIGHLY FLEXIBLE. 
          UM, THEY CAN BE TURNED ON AND OFF VERY QUICKLY. 
          UM, AND ESSENTIALLY THEY WORK REALLY WELL TO FILL THE GAPS WHEN NOTHING ELSE IS THERE TO PROVIDE IT. 
          UM, ONE THING THAT I, I WANNA EMPHASIZE HERE IS THAT ONE OF THE ISSUES WITH, UM, OUR, OUR INITIAL ATTEMPT AT DOING AN UPDATE TO THE 20 30 20 30 PLAN WAS, UM, WITHIN OUR QUICK TIMELINE, WE REALLY ONLY HAD TIME TO DO ONE ROUND OF MODELING. 
          AND WE HAD ASSUMED, MADE A NATURAL ASSUMPTION THAT WE WERE GONNA RETIRE EVERY, UM, EXISTING GENERATOR WITHIN OUR, OUR LOAD ZONE. 
          AND THAT RESULTED IN, UM, NEEDING TO BUILD SOMETHING NEW, UM, AGAIN, TO, TO FILL THE GAP. 
          AND IT, IT ACTUALLY LOOKED LIKE THE RECOMMENDATION WAS GOING TO INCLUDE SOMETHING LIKE A A THOUSAND MEGAWATTS OF, UM, HYDROGEN CAPABLE COMBINED CYCLE UNITS. 
          SO A REALLY LARGE, UM, GAS PLANT THAT WE WERE, UM, INTENDING TO CONVERT TO GREEN HYDROGEN. 
          UM, BUT IT, THAT COMES WITH A NUMBER OF, OF CONCERNS. 
          AND WE HEARD THE COMMUNITY, WE HEARD THE COUNCIL, UM, SAY THAT ONE, THAT'S, THAT'S A LOT OF MEGAWATTS, THAT'S A REALLY BIG GAS PLANT. 
          AND IT ALSO, UM, IT, IT, IT, IT, IT ASSUMES THAT A TECHNOLOGY WILL COME TO BE THAT WE DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW COULD COME TO BE. 
          UM, AND SO WE HEARD EVERYONE, AND THIS TIME WE MODELED A LITTLE BIT OF HYDROGEN, UM, BUT THEN WE SAID, WHAT ELSE COULD WE DO? 
          [02:30:01]
AND WE MODELED, UH, NATURAL GAS COMBINED CYCLE UNITS. 
          WE HAD MODELED NATURAL GAS PEAKER UNITS, AND ULTIMATELY WE REALIZED THAT, THAT THE, BASED ON THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THESE PEAKER UNITS, THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE NEEDED TO FILL THE GAP. 
          SO WE'RE LOOKING AT SAY LIKE, WHAT'S THE MINIMAL AMOUNT THAT YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU CAN MEET ALL THE GOALPOSTS OF RELIABLE, AFFORDABLE, AND CLEAN? AND ONE OF THE BENEFITS OF, UM, NATURAL GAS PEAKER UNITS IS THAT THEY WOULD BE MORE EFFICIENT THAN OUR EXISTING, UH, GENERATION FLEET. 
          AND SO, UM, ON NORMAL DAYS, THE ANY NEW PEAKER UNITS WOULD ACT AS REPLACEMENT TO OUR EXISTING, UM, GENERATION FLEET. 
          AND SO, UH, IT WOULD ULTIMATELY LEAD TO A CLEANER OUTCOME. 
          UM, THE OTHER BENEFIT IS THAT, UH, NATURAL GAS PEAKER UNITS HAVE THE ABILITY TO HAVE BLACK BLACKSTAR CAPABILITY STATUS, AND BLACKSTAR, UM, CAPABILITY REALLY MEANS THAT IT'S A, IT'S A RESOURCE THAT CAN START UP WHEN, UH, THERE'S NO POWER ON THE ELECTRIC GRID. 
          SO DURING AN A GRID EMERGENCY, UM, IF THERE'S, UH, WE HAVE A BLACKOUT, UH, YOU NEED TO JUMPSTART THE GRID IN SOME WAY. 
          AND, UH, AS THE CAPITAL CITY, WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE, ARE PART OF THE SOLUTION AND HAVE THAT BLACK START CAPABILITY IN OUR, IN OUR PORTFOLIO. 
          UM, THE OTHER ASPECTS OF THESE, UH, THIS KIND OF COLLECTIVE COMBINATION OF, UM, SOLUTIONS IS REALLY TO HELP, UM, SUPPORT THE GOALS THAT ARE ON THE OTHER SIDE. 
          UM, AND SO ACHIEVE DECARBONIZATION IS NOT A NEW GOAL. 
          UM, LIKE I SAID, CARBON FREE BY 2035 IS, UM, ONE OF THE MOST AGGRESSIVE, UM, GOALS IN THE, UH, US AMONGST, UM, UTILITIES. 
          AND, UM, THE BIGGEST BARRIER TO THAT CARBON FREE, UH, BY 2035 GOAL IS THE EMISSIONS THAT COMES OUT OF THE FAYETTE POWER PLANT. 
          AND SO, UM, UNFORTUNATELY TO DATE, WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO GET OUT OF THAT, BUT WE DO NEED TO EXIT COAL AND, UM, THIS PORTFOLIO OF, UM, TECHNOLOGIES SHOULD POSITION US BETTER TO, UM, UH, TO, TO BE ABLE TO AFFORDABLY AND RELIABLY MEET THAT MILESTONE ON OUR, UM, CLEAN ENERGY TRANSITION. 
          UM, AND SO THEN I THINK WE'VE ALREADY TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE GEOTHERMAL AND WHATNOT, BUT I'LL JUST, UM, SUMMARIZE THAT THE, THE CULTURE OF INNOVATION ASPECT REALLY SAYS, UM, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE TRACKING, UM, ALL OF THE DIFFERENT TECHNOLOGIES THAT COULD BE GAME CHANGERS, THAT COULD, UH, COME IN AND TAKE CARE OF ANYTHING THAT, UH, STANDS IN THE WAY OF OUR, UH, DECARBONIZATION GOALS. 
          AND SO, UM, YOU KNOW, SAY IT'S GEOTHERMAL, SAY IT'S NUCLEAR, WHATEVER IT IS, WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE THE, UM, WE'RE READY, STAND READY TO ADOPT THOSE TECHNOLOGIES, UM, UH, AND, AND, AND THEN BECOME CARBON FREE AS, UM, BY 2035 AS OUR GOAL STATES. 
          SO, UM, THANK YOU COMMISSIONER DAVIS FOR DIRECTING ME BACK TO THAT, TRY TO DO THAT WITHOUT, UM, HAVING THE SLIDES, BUT DID I COVER MOST OF WHAT YOU WERE LOOKING TO ACCOMPLISH? OKAY, THANKS. 
          THAT WAS GREAT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU, COMMISSIONERS. 
          ARE THERE OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? I SEE ONE FROM, UH, COMMISSIONER SCHWARTZ. 
          I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS. 
          UH, FIRST, UH, ON THE SUBJECT OF DEMAND RESPONSE, IS THERE, IS THERE ANYTHING DIFFERENT ABOUT THIS PLAN THAN THE PREVIOUS PLAN OR WHAT'S CURRENTLY, UH, THAT A IS HOW A IS CURRENTLY BEEN OPERATING? SO, SO, UM, THERE ARE, THERE ARE SOME DIFFERENCES. 
          AND NORMALLY I TRY TO, UM, ANSWER THIS, BUT SINCE WE'VE GOT THE EXPERT IN THE ROOM, I'M GONNA ASK SARAH TO COME UP AND ANSWER THAT PART OF IT, PLEASE. 
          THANKS, SARAH. 
          COMMISSIONER, COMMISSIONER SA WAIT, WOULD YOU, MAY I PLEASE AN SORRY, , YOUR HONOR. 
          OH, NO, YOU'RE, YOU'RE FINE. 
          THANK YOU. 
          VICE CHAIR ROBBINS. 
          UM, SO THE PREVIOUS PLAN ACTUALLY DIDN'T HAVE A LOT OF SPECIFICITY AROUND WHAT NUMBERS WE WOULD GO TO FOR OUR DEMAND RESPONSE GOALS. 
          AND THE REASON FOR THAT, THERE WERE TWO REASONS FOR THAT. 
          ONE IS THAT THE MAIN THING THAT WE NEEDED TO ADDRESS WAS A DEFINITIONAL ISSUE IN THE, IN THE CURRENT PLAN. 
          SO THE CURRENT PLAN TO 2030 HAS A DEFINITION OF DEMAND RESPONSE, WHICH DEALS MORE WITH SORT OF LIKE CAPACITY RATHER THAN ACTUAL PERFORMANCE. 
          AND SO THAT IS ONE OF THE KEY DIFFERENCES THAT WE ARE ADDRESSING IN THE REVISED PLAN, IS DEFINING DEMAND RESPONSE AS THE PERFORMANCE DURING, YOU KNOW, I DON'T RECALL THE EXACT LANGUAGE THAT WE USED OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, HAPPY TO PULL IT UP, BUT, UM, DEFINING IT AS THE PERFORMANCE IN A TWO HOUR DEMAND 
          [02:35:01]
RESPONSE EVENT DURING THE HEAT, THE COOLING SEASON. 
          BECAUSE WHAT WE'RE INTERESTED IN IS UNDERSTANDING HOW OUR PORTFOLIO IS ACTUALLY PERFORMING VERSUS JUST HOW MANY THERMOSTATS OR BATTERIES OR WHATEVER HAVE BEEN INSTALLED. 
          UM, AND SO WE HAVE THEN WORKED WITH OUR THIRD PARTY, UH, EVALUATOR, DNV, WHO DID A MARKET POTENTIAL STUDY WHO HELPED US TO UNDERSTAND HOW TO RIGHT SIZE THAT, UM, THAT GOAL. 
          AND SO WE HAVE A BIT BETTER CLARITY ON WHAT A FEASIBLE NUMBER MIGHT BE. 
          UM, AND THERE'S CERTAINLY A LOT OF WORK THAT WE WILL NEED TO DO IN OUR DEMAND RESPONSE PORTFOLIO TO ACHIEVE THE AMBITIOUS GOALS THAT, UM, BOTH THE UTILITY AND, UH, THE STAKEHOLDERS WOULD LIKE FOR US TO STRIVE FOR. 
          ARE THOSE NUMBERS, ARE THOSE NUMBERS, UH, PUBLIC OR IS THAT STILL YET TO BE DETERMINED? I KNOW THERE WAS SOME, I WATCHED SOME OF THE MODELING AND THERE WERE QUESTIONS ABOUT INCREASING IT BY, UH, 50% OR SOMETHING, BUT THAT HASN'T BEEN, THE PLAN'S NOT PUBLISHED. 
          RIGHT? RIGHT. 
          THE PLAN WILL BE PUBLISHED NEXT WEDNESDAY. 
          UM, AND SO I'M NOT COMFORTABLE TAGGING ONTO AN EXACT NUMBER THAT WE'LL GO INTO THE PLAN JUST YET. 
          BUT THE NUMBERS, THE TWO NUMBERS THAT WERE MODELED WERE, UM, THE NUMBER, THE FEASIBLE NUMBER THAT WE GOT FROM OUR THIRD PARTY, UM, WHICH I BELIEVE WAS TWO 70 MEGAWATTS OR 2 69 MEGAWATTS. 
          UM, AND THEN THE OTHER NUMBER WAS FIVE 40 FOR THE MORE AGGRESSIVE PORTFOLIOS. 
          OKAY, THANK YOU. 
          UM, THE OTHER QUESTION I HAD REALLY QUICK WAS, DID WE TALK ABOUT THE GREENHOUSE GAS? WE'RE SAYING THAT YOU'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT THE GREENHOUSE GAS, UH, INCENTIVE SWITCH? YEAH, SO JUST THAT THE, THE GEN PLAN HAS A REALLY, UM, GREAT KIND OF PLACE TO RECOGNIZE THAT. 
          UM, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE DEMAND SIDE OF THE EQUATION, AND, AND SARAH JUST ALLUDED TO THIS, IT'S, IT'S REALLY ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT YOU MEASURE YOUR, UM, ACTIVITY IN A WAY THAT IS REALLY MEANINGFUL TO THE END GOAL. 
          AND SO, UM, FOR ONE, RIGHT, IN TERMS OF DEMAND RESPONSE, IT'S NOT, IT'S NO LONGER MEASURING, UH, HOW MANY, YOU KNOW, MEGAWATTS OF THERMOSTATS ARE INSTALLED IF YOU, YOU KNOW, RUN THE PROGRAM AND YOU ONLY GET, LIKE IF WE HAVE, FOR EXAMPLE, 150 MEGAWATTS OF THERMOSTATS INSTALLED, BUT WHEN THEY RUN THE PROGRAM, UM, BASED OFF OF ATTRITION OVER THE YEARS OR, OR, YOU KNOW, A KNOWN SET OF, YOU KNOW, PERCENTAGES OF PEOPLE OVERRIDING, UM, THEN, THEN, UH, WE ONLY GET, YOU KNOW, 40 MEGAWATTS. 
          UM, AND, AND I'M MAKING THOSE NUMBERS UP 'CAUSE I THINK I'M USING THEM TOO BROADLY. 
          UM, THEN WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE PLANNING TO ONLY COUNT ON 40 MEGAWATTS AND NOT THE 150. 
          SO THAT'S ONE COMPONENT OF, OF KIND OF RIGHT SIZING THIS PLAN, UM, SO THAT WE REALLY KNOW, UH, WHAT CAN WE COUNT ON AS WE'RE LOOKING INTO A, A FUTURE OF, OF REALLY AGGRESSIVE, UM, UH, DEMAND GROWTH. 
          BUT THE OTHER PIECE OF IT IS RECOGNIZING THAT THIS PLAN AS A WHOLE IS A RESOURCE GENERATION AND CLIMATE PROTECTION PLAN. 
          AND IN THE, IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS, WE'RE WORKING TO, UH, REACH THE, YOU KNOW, OVERARCHING GOAL OF CARBON FREE BY 2035. 
          AND WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, UM, REDUCING MEGAWATTS IN A SPACE WHERE YOU'RE ALSO TRYING TO TALK ABOUT BENEFICIAL ELECTRIFICATION, IT JUST DOESN'T, LIKE, AS, AS I THINK TO USE SARAH'S PHRASE, THE DENOMINATORS DON'T MATCH UP, RIGHT? AND SO, UM, WHAT I LIKE TO SAY, AND, AND I'M NOW STEALING WORDS FROM RICHARD, IS THAT THE AUSTIN ENERGY AND ITS EXPERIENCE, UM, IN THESE PROGRAMS, WE'VE MATURED IN SUCH A WAY THAT WE ARE NOW EVOLVING, UM, THE WAY THAT WE THINK AND THE WAY THAT WE REPRESENT THAT TYPE OF WORK IN THIS PLAN FROM SAYING, WE'RE NOT TRYING TO NECESSARILY REDUCE EVERY MEGAWATT, BECAUSE SOMETIMES WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS ACTUALLY GOING TO INCREASE MEGAWATTS, AND THE, OF COURSE Y'ALL KNOW, BUT THE BEST EXAMPLE I CAN THINK OF IS, IS THE ELECTRIC VEHICLES, RIGHT? AND SO THE, IT OBVIOUSLY GETS MORE COMPLICATED IN THE HOME HEATING, UH, UH, SITUATION, BUT I'M AN ELECTRICAL ENGINEER AND HVAC IS VERY COMPLICATED TO ME. 
          UM, AND SO I'LL JUST GO WITH THE ELECTRIC VEHICLE COMPONENT. 
          THERE'S A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF OFFSETS AND SAVINGS FOR, UM, YOU KNOW, THE COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE. 
          UM, AND THINK ABOUT THE BROADER, UH, AUSTIN CLIMATE EQUITY PLAN. 
          UM, AND IF WE CAN DO SOME WORK HERE TO ENABLE, UM, MORE, UH, HOLISTIC GREENHOUSE GAS REDUCTION, CARBON FREE SOLUTIONING, THEN, UM, LET'S THINK ABOUT THAT. 
          AND SO SHIFTING AND MATURING AND EVOLVING OUR THINKING AND THE LANGUAGE THAT'S IN THE PLAN FROM A MEGAWATT REDUCTION TO A GREENHOUSE GAS AVOIDANCE FRAMEWORK IS SOMETHING THAT, THAT CAME OUT OF THE TEAM HERE, UM, HAS BEEN WIDELY, UM, ADOPTED AND ACCEPTED AND EMBRACED BY AUSTIN ENERGY AND THE COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE. 
          UM, WHAT 
          [02:40:01]
I'VE COME TO UNDERSTAND, UM, AND BASED ON MY VERY LIMITED EXPERIENCE YEARS AGO WHEN I WAS DOING A, UH, M AND V REPORTING FOR DEMAND RESPONSE IS THAT YOU CAN SAY, I GET THAT, I UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, LISA, BUT THE FRAMEWORK OF HOW YOU DETERMINE HOW MUCH GREENHOUSE GAS IS AVOIDED, WHETHER IN, IN EACH MOVEMENT THAT YOU TAKE, TAKES TIME AND IT TAKES EXPERTISE. 
          AND WE HAVE A LOT OF THAT IN-HOUSE, BUT I THINK WE'RE, WE'RE ALSO LEVERAGING EXPERTISE FROM A THIRD PARTY DNV ENERGY INSIGHTS. 
          AND SO THE PLAN AS A WHOLE SPEAKS TO A TRANSITION FROM THE MEGAWATT REDUCTION FRAMEWORK TO A GREENHOUSE GAS AVOIDANCE FRAMEWORK THAT HAPPENS OVER TIME, INCLUDING SOME REAL, UM, OPPORTUNITY TO MEASURE AND TEST AND CHECK OUR, OUR THEORIES. 
          IS THAT A WAY TO SAY IT? UM, UH, MAYBE IN LISA'S LAYMAN'S TERMS, UM, SORRY IF I UNDERSOLD THAT. 
          UM, AND THEN REALLY WORKING TO SET GREENHOUSE GAS AVOIDANCE GOALS IN THE COMING YEARS, UM, IN, IN THE NOT TOO DISTANT FUTURE. 
          SO I'M REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THAT CHANGE. 
          LIKE NORMALLY I'M ON THE, THE, THE WIRES AND THE INFRASTRUCTURE SIDE OF THINGS, BUT I HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE ON THE CUSTOMER EDGE SIDE OF THINGS, UM, AS WELL, UH, WITH SOME DISTRIBUTED ENERGY RESOURCES. 
          AND SO I'M JUST REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE'RE DOING THINGS EVEN SMARTER EVERY STEP OF THE PROCESS. 
          THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU. 
          ONE OTHER QUESTION. 
          SORRY, , MAY I PLEASE GET, UM, LET ME PLEASE CON, UH, GET TO COMMISSIONER SAIS AND THEN CIRCLE BACK TO YOU IF THAT'S OKAY. 
          UH, AND I APOLOGIZE FOR CUTTING, UH, MS. NORRIS OFF. 
          I, UH, WAS COMMISSIONER SA SARITA HAD DISAPPEARED FROM THE SCREEN AND I RAN OVER TO THE OTHER SIDE. 
          AND SO WHEN I CAME BACK, I, I HAD LOST THE FLOW OF THE CONVERSATION. 
          COMMISSIONER SA SARITA, UH, DID YOU HAVE QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? I HAD QUESTIONS. 
          UM, ONE, ONE OF THEM IS PREEXISTING AND ANOTHER WHICH I'LL ASK FIRST WAS SPONSORED BY THE CONVERSATION FROM ONE MOMENT AGO REGARDING MEGAWATTS AND CO2 AND LIKE, WHAT IS THE RIGHT DENOMINATOR? SO, YOU KNOW, ONE, YOU KNOW, MAJOR ASPECT OF THE CITIZENS OF AUSTIN INTERACTING WITH AUSTIN ENERGIES THROUGH THEIR BILL. 
          THE BILL USES A TIERED RATE STRUCTURE. 
          IT DOES NOT DISTINGUISH BETWEEN MEGAWATTS AND CO2, IS THERE ANY PLAN TO LIKE ADDRESS THAT, WHICH IS LIKE DEFINITELY SENDING THE WRONG SIGNAL FOR PEOPLE TO GET EVS AND HEAT PUMPS THAT THEN HAVE THEIR ELECTRICITY BILL GO UP IN LIKE A NON-LINEAR FASHION FOR DOING THE RIGHT THING BY THE RESOURCE GENERATION AND CLIMATE PLAN. 
          SO, UM, I THINK IT'S A, IT'S A COMPLICATED QUESTION THAT MAKES ME START TO THINK ABOUT PEOPLE'S ENERGY WALLET AND RECOGNIZING THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A TRANSITION THAT THAT WILL CAUSE SOME PEOPLE TO, UM, USE ADDITIONAL MEGAWATTS, UM, IN A WAY THAT, UH, NEEDS TO BE CONSIDERED WHEN IT COMES TO ENERGY BURDEN. 
          UM, AND, AND, YOU KNOW, JUST THEIR PERSONAL DECISIONS. 
          UM, I'M NOT SURE THAT I'M FULLY ADDRESSING YOUR QUESTION BECAUSE I'M NOT SURE THAT I FULLY UNDERSTAND WHAT THE QUESTION ACTUALLY IS. 
          COULD YOU HELP ME? OKAY. 
          I'LL ASK IT ANOTHER WAY. 
          THANKS. 
          SO, SO WE WERE TALKING ABOUT HOW LIKE SOMETIMES MEGAWATTS GO UP AND THAT IS ACTUALLY THE RIGHT THING FOR THE RESEARCH GENERATION TO ACTION PLAN OR, UH, SORRY, AND CLIMATE PLAN. 
          UM, BECAUSE SOMETIMES THINGS THAT USE MORE ELECTRICAL ENERGY RESULT IN LOWER OVERALL CO2, JUST AS AT THE STAGE, SAME, SAME PAGE SO FAR. 
          YES. 
          SO THE AUSTIN ENERGY USES A TIERED LIKE ENERGY PAYMENT STRUCTURE WHERE IF YOU USE MORE ELECTRICAL ENERGY, YOU PAY LIKE A NON-LINEAR INCREASE IN THE LIKE, AMOUNT PER KILOWATT HOUR, RIGHT? THERE'S LIKE THE THIRD TIER ENERGY IS MORE EXPENSIVE PER KILOWATT HOUR THAN THE SECOND TIER AND THEN THE FIRST AND SO ON. 
          SO THAT I THINK IS NOT, I DON'T REALLY MEAN TO DEBATE THIS PART. 
          I'M GONNA CLAIM IT'S A FACT THAT LIKE THAT SENDS THE WRONG SIGNAL TO THE CITIZENS OF AUSTIN THAT SAYS IF YOU USE MORE ELECTRICAL ENGINEER, MORE ELECTRICAL ENERGY, THAT IS THE WRONG THING TO DO BECAUSE WE CHARGE YOU MORE MONEY FOR USING MORE ELECTRICITY, WHEREAS MORE ELECTRICITY POINT YOU JUST MADE COULD MEAN YOU GOT AN EV. 
          AND THAT IS, THAT HAS ALL THE INCENTIVES ALIGNED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. 
          SO MY CLAIM HERE IS LIKE WE'RE SENDING THE WRONG MESSAGE POTENTIALLY WITH THE TIERED RATE STRUCTURE, YOU, UH, 
          [02:45:01]
THINKING OF ADDRESSING THAT IN SUCH A WAY THAT SENDS THE RIGHT MESSAGE FOR THE GOALS OF THE RESOURCE GENERATION AND CLIMATE PLAN. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR, FOR BREAKING IT APART, UM, HELPS MY ENGINEERING BRAIN GET A LITTLE CLOSER TO, UM, SOME OF THE FINANCIAL TOPICS. 
          UM, SO YEAH, WHAT I'M HEARING YOU TALK ABOUT HAS A LOT TO DO WITH, WITH RATE STRUCTURE, UM, AND, UH, AND CERTAIN, UH, DECISIONS THAT ARE MADE DURING RATE CASES AND WHATNOT. 
          AND I THINK THAT WE, WE HAVE HAD CONVERSATIONS, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, ESSENTIALLY ABOUT THE FACT THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, WHETHER WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMEONE'S RATES OR SOMEONE'S BILLS AND CERTAINLY ELECTRIFICATION, UM, COULD, COULD CHANGE THE, RIGHT NOW WE HAVE SOME OF THE LOWEST AVERAGE, UM, ENERGY USAGE, UH, YOU KNOW, IN THE STATE, UM, BECAUSE OF SOME OF THE GREAT ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAMS AND BUILDING, UH, GREEN BUILDING PROGRAMS THAT WE, UH, HAVE HERE IN THE CITY. 
          UM, AND SO I UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, UM, AND I THINK THAT, UH, BENEFICIAL ELECTRIFICATION COMES IN A WAY THAT HELPS SUPPORT THAT. 
          UM, IT IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT I, I KNOW WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT AND LOOKING AT AS WE CONTINUE TO LOOK AT HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT, UM, WE MAINTAIN AFFORDABILITY FOR OUR CUSTOMERS. 
          UM, I WILL SAY THAT, UM, IN MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, UM, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, ELECTRIC VEHICLES AND IS A GREAT EXAMPLE. 
          UM, I, I DO THINK ABOUT IT IN TERMS OF MY ENERGY WALLET AND YES, MY ELECTRIC BILL HAS GONE UP AND I KNOW THAT THAT SOMETIMES KNOCKS ME INTO THE NEXT TIER, BUT HOLISTICALLY, I'M STILL SAVING A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT WHILE DOING SOMETHING THAT'S BENEFICIAL FOR THE ENVIRONMENT. 
          AND SO I THINK ALL OF THOSE, UM, CONVERSATIONS HAVE TO BE HAD IN CONSIDERED. 
          UM, AND, UH, SO, SO YEAH, I APPRECIATE YOU POINTING IT OUT. 
          UM, AND I DO THINK THAT THAT IS A CONTINUED CONVERSATION. 
          WE, WE TALK A LOT OR WHAT I'VE TALKED TO PEOPLE ABOUT BEFORE, UM, INTERNALLY IS WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE WHEN SOMEONE'S ELECTRICITY BURDEN STARTS TO, UH, CONVERGE TO THEIR ENERGY BURDEN AS A WHOLE? UM, AND, AND HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT WE, UM, RIGHT SIZE OUR PROCESSES AND OUR FRAMEWORKS AND OUR PROGRAMS, AND I THINK THAT WOULD INCLUDE RATE STRUCTURE TO, UM, TO ADDRESS THOSE THINGS. 
          SO WHAT, I GUESS JUST LIKE, WHAT'S THE SIMPLE ANSWER TO LIKE, IS THAT BEING CONSIDERED OR NOT AS PART OF THE RESOURCE GENERATION PLAN? AND IF IT'S OUT OF SCOPE, I WOULD ACCEPT THAT ANSWER, BUT I JUST DON'T KNOW IF IT IS OR ISN'T. 
          OH, I'M SORRY. 
          I MISSED THAT PART OF THE QUESTION IN THE MIDST OF IT. 
          THIS IS, NO, THAT IS NOT PART OF THE RESOURCE GENERATION CLIMATE PROTECTION PLAN. 
          THAT'S PART OF RATE CASE RATE MAKING. 
          OKAY. 
          GOT IT. 
          SORRY. 
          UM, NO PROBLEM. 
          OKAY. 
          THE QUESTION I HAD LOGGED FROM, FROM EARLIER, UM, THAT I LIKE TO ADDRESS NOW IS, SO I HAVEN'T SEEN THE DETAILS, BUT YOU MENTIONED VERBALLY PEAKER ADDING A PEAKER PLANT OR, OR, OR SEVERAL, UM, AS WELL AS SOME GRID SCALE BATTERIES, ET CETERA. 
          SO LIKE WHAT, I THINK I KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION, SO, UM, WHICH WILL HELP MAYBE WITH A QUICK FOLLOW UP. 
          SO BEAR WITH ME ON THIS LIKE WEIRD, WEIRD LINE OF REASON I'M GOING THROUGH RIGHT NOW, WHICH IS LIKE THE, TO THE QUESTION, ADDING A PEAKER PLANT AND, AND, AND SOME ADDITIONAL IMPORTANT CAPACITY AND SOME, UH, GRID SCALE BATTERIES, THAT BEING THE, THE, LIKE, THE ANSWER RIGHT? IN TERMS OF THE, LIKE WHAT THE MODEL POPPED OUT. 
          UM, ACTUALLY THAT IS MY QUESTION IS LIKE, IS THAT THE ANSWER? BECAUSE THAT IS THE, WAS DETERMINED TO BE LIKE THE LOWEST COST OR THE MOST OPTIMIZED, UM, SOLUTION SET BY THE MODELING THAT WAS TALKED ABOUT EARLIER, ASKED ANOTHER WAY, IT'S LIKE, WHY DIDN'T THE MODEL POP OUT, POP OUT? UM, HEY, THE ANSWER HERE IS LIKE, MORE BATTERIES, SOLAR, NO PEAKER PLANTS, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD BE LIKE A DIFFERENT SOLUTION THAN WHAT WHAT WAS SAID AND IS THE, IS, AND MY ACTUAL QUESTION HERE IS LIKE, IS IT THE MODEL THAT INFORMED THAT DECISION EXCLUSIVELY? SO THE MODEL DOESN'T EVER GIVE YOU AN EXACT ANSWER, UM, BUT WHAT THE MODEL GIVES YOU IS INFORMATION TO ASSESS TRADE-OFFS AND THEN TO INFORM DECISIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS THAT GO INTO THE PLAN. 
          AND SO WE DO HAVE, UH, PORTFOLIOS THAT, THAT LOOK LIKE BOTH OF THOSE SCENARIOS THAT YOU JUST TALKED ABOUT. 
          UM, SOME THAT, THAT HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TRANSMISSION IMPORT CAPACITY, A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF UTILITY SCALE BATTERIES, CERTAIN AMOUNT OF, UM, PEAKER UNITS AND ALL OF THE THINGS THAT YOU SEE ABOVE THAT ON THIS SLIDE. 
          UM, AND THEN WE HAVE SOME THAT SAY, OKAY, WELL DON'T HAVE PEAKER UNITS IN THERE AND WHAT IS, UM, HOW, WHAT, WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO DO? WHAT IF YOU PUT MORE BATTERIES IN AND LOCAL SOLAR IN IT? AND THEN THE OUTCOMES SHOW YOU THE TRADE-OFFS, UM, BETWEEN THE TRADE-OFFS AND WE, WE MEASURED NINE, I THINK, DIFFERENT, UM, METRICS, 
          [02:50:01]
UM, SOME OF WHICH WERE COST BASED, SOME OF WHICH WERE RELATED TO EMISSIONS AND SOME OF WHICH WERE RELATED TO RELIABILITY. 
          UM, WE ALSO, UH, HIRED A THIRD PARTY TO DO, UM, OPTIMIZATION MODELING AS WELL. 
          AND SO THEY PUT IN CONSTRAINTS THAT SAID, REACH CARBON FREE BY 2035, AND IN SOME CASES DO IT AS, YOU KNOW, THE LEAST COST AND IN SOME CASES DO IT WHERE YOU, UH, CAN ONLY BUILD, YOU KNOW, CERTAIN TECHNOLOGIES AND THINGS LIKE THAT. 
          AND, UM, THE RESULTS OF BOTH OF THOSE MODELS DID LEND US TO SAY THAT THE SET OF TRADE-OFFS WERE MORE BALANCED, UM, UH, WHEN YOU INCLUDE ALL OF THE, UH, RESOURCES IN THE TOOLKIT. 
          OKAY, UNDERSTOOD. 
          AND THEN, THEN MY FINAL QUESTION, I PROMISE, IS LIKE, CAN THE INPUTS, OUTPUTS AND METHODS OF THAT MODELING BE SCRUTINIZED? HOW, HOW DOES ONE READ THE, READ THE, THE, YOU KNOW, THE HOMEWORK? YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. 
          SO WE HAVE, UM, PRESENTATIONS GOING BACK PROBABLY TO MAY, UM, THAT WE'RE OUR MODELING TEAM AND, UH, MICHAEL ANGER, WHO'S OUR VICE PRESIDENT OF, UM, MARKET OPERATIONS AND RESOURCE PLANNING, UH, PRESENTED THE METHODOLOGY, THE FRAMEWORK, THE PORTFOLIOS THAT WE WERE GONNA LOOK AT. 
          WE HAD OUR THIRD PARTY ASCENT ANALYTICS PRESENT, UM, AS WELL. 
          UM, AND, UM, AND THEN THE RESULTS, AND WE DID THAT IN VARIOUS ROUNDS. 
          UM, SO WATCHING THOSE, UH, SNIPPETS OF THE ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION MEETINGS, WHICH CERTAINLY MAYBE ONE WAY IF YOU WANTED TO DO YOUR, UM, SOME HOMEWORK AND THEN, UM, FOR A FULL SET OF THE DATA BEHIND IT, IF YOU GO TO THAT SPEAK UP AUSTIN WEBPAGE THAT I TALKED ABOUT, AGAIN, IF YOU JUST GOOGLE SPEAK UP AUSTIN, UH, RESOURCE GENERATION PLAN, UM, YOU WILL COME TO A PAGE THAT KIND OF SUMMARIZES NOT ONLY THIS, HAVE THE LINKS TO ALL THE ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION, UM, DECKS AND PRESENTATIONS, BUT IT ALSO HAS, UM, WHAT I CALL THE DATA FILES, UM, WHICH SHOW, UH, THE NUMBERS. 
          LIKE THERE'S A LOT OF GRAPHS IN THOSE PRESENTATIONS, UM, AND, AND SOMETIMES YOU'RE LIKE, WELL, I'M TRYING TO READ INTERPOLATE WHAT THE NUMBER IS, AND SO THE NUMBERS BEHIND THE GRAPHS ARE IN THE DATA FILES. 
          SO, UM, YEAH, THE HOMEWORK, UH, CAPABILITY IS CERTAINLY THERE FOR THOSE WHO WISH TO DELVE IN. 
          AND, AND WHAT'S THE DATE YOU SAID IT WAS CALLED THE DATA FILES? UM, OR IS THERE, LIKE, WHAT'S THE KEY WORD THAT'S GONNA GET ME TO THE, LIKE DATA SOURCE YOU JUST MENTIONED AT THE END THERE? I I DO YOU MEAN THE WEBPAGE OR, OR ON THAT WEBPAGE? YEAH, WITHIN THE WEB, WITHIN THE WEBPAGE. 
          MAYBE IT'S VERY OBVIOUS, BUT I'M JUST, I'M IN CASE IT'S NOT, IS THERE LIKE A KEYWORD THAT'S LIKE THIS, LIKE A DATA ROOM OR LIKE A BACKUP OR DOES IT HAVE A NAME ASSOCIATED WITH IT? THEY'RE, THEY'RE EXCEL FILES, UM, WHEREAS MOST THINGS ARE PDFS AND, UM, I'M, WE CALL THEM INTERNALLY THE DATA FILES. 
          OKAY. 
          THAT, THAT'LL WORK. 
          OKAY. 
          YEAH. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK, THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU. 
          I THINK IT'LL BE PRETTY OBVIOUS COMMISSIONERS, UH, JUST TO ADVISE YOU, UH, WE ARE ALMOST AT NINE O'CLOCK AND WE HAVE A 10 O'CLOCK CURFEW. 
          THEY, THEY, THEY'LL LITERALLY, LITERALLY KICK US OUT OF THE ROOM AT 10. 
          UH, AND WHILE I THINK THAT A COUPLE OF THE AUSTIN ENERGY, UH, PERSONNEL HERE MIGHT ACTUALLY SLEEP HERE, , WE, WE, WE DON'T. 
          SO, UM, I, I AM PERSONALLY PLEASED THAT EVERYBODY ON THIS COMMISSION, UH, OR MOST PEOPLE ON THIS COMMISSION SO ANIMATED ABOUT THIS, I THINK IT'S A GOOD THING. 
          I'M JUST LETTING YOU KNOW THAT THERE, AND WE ALSO HAVE TWO OTHER, UH, AGENDA ITEMS. UH, THEY MAY BE SHORTER THAN THIS ONE, BUT, UH, UH, HAVING SAID THIS, UH, ARE THERE OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM COMMISSIONERS? I HAVE A SIMPLE QUESTION. 
          PAUL , I PROMISE A SIMPLE ANSWER. 
          APOLOGIES FOR NOT WATCHING. 
          UM, THE QUESTION IS, ARE THERE, UH, CONSIDERING OUR PURVIEW, ARE THERE LOCAL BATTERY, UH, TARGETS? I KNOW Y'ALL SAID YOU WERE ROLLING OUT A PROGRAM NEXT YEAR. 
          ARE THERE TARGETS FOR WHAT THAT'S GONNA MEAN IN TERMS OF, UH, NUMBER MEGAWATTS, UH, IN THE COMING YEARS? IS THAT PART OF THIS PLAN? UM, NOT YET THAT I'M AWARE OF. 
          UH, CUSTOMER CITED BATTERIES ARE INCORPORATED INTO THE DEMAND RESPONSE ASPECT OF IT. 
          SO THE NUMBERS THAT SARAH ALREADY GAVE YOU ARE INCORPORATED THERE. 
          GOT IT. 
          WE DON'T HAVE  FOR THAT. 
          THAT'S RIGHT. 
          DOES MAYBE A FOLLOW UP, ARE THERE, ARE THERE ANY DETAILS OF THE PROGRAM THAT ARE PLANNED WITH THIS, OR IS THAT STILL TOTALLY UP IN THE AIR INCENTIVES OR, UH, THE GEN PLAN SPEAKS TO MAKING SURE THAT WE HAVE, UM, INCENTIVES AND ESSENTIALLY BUILD OUT THE, THE FULL PROGRAM AND, AND BAKE IT INTO THE DEMAND RESPONSE SIDE OF THINGS. 
          IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT? YEAH, I MEAN, WE DON'T PROVIDE ANY DETAILS 
          [02:55:01]
ON ANY OF OUR PROGRAMS. THAT'S RIGHT. 
          IN THE GENERAL, THAT'S RIGHT. 
          THAT'S RIGHT. 
          IT'S JUST THE INTENTION. 
          IT'S JUST, YEAH, IT'S CALLS FOR IT, SO IT SETS THE EXPECTATION THAT WE OKAY. 
          MOVE FORWARD IN THAT WAY. 
          YEAH. 
          THANK YOU. 
          YEAH, THANKS. 
          I GET REALLY EXCITED AND HAVE LONG ANSWERS TRYING TO GET COMMISSIONERS. 
          ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? OKAY, I HAVE TWO AND I HAD MORE, BUT GIVEN THE TIME AND EVERYTHING, I, I HOPE TO KEEP THESE SHORT. 
          UH, ONE, AND IT'S REALLY MORE A STATEMENT IS THAT THERE SEEMS TO BE GENERAL AGREEMENT ON ALL THE ISSUES, UH, EXCEPT THE GAS PEAKERS, UH, UH, THERE SEEMS TO BE GENERAL, IT, I MEAN, DIFFERS A LITTLE BIT. 
          GENERAL AGREEMENT ON BATTERIES, SOLAR DEMAND, SIDE MANAGEMENT, UH, ENERGY EFFICIENCY, UM, EVERYTHING EXCEPT BATTERY, EXCEPT, UH, THE GAS, UH, PEAKING PLANTS SEEMS TO BE RELATIVELY UNCONTROVERSIAL. 
          AND SO WHEN, IF WE DECIDE TO TAKE THIS UP, THAT MAY BE, UH, A BIG PART OF OUR DISCUSSION. 
          UH, THE OTHER THING, WHICH REALLY IS KIND OF A FOOTNOTE IN THIS PLAN, BUT I'M JUST GONNA RAISE A POINT OF HISTORY, IS THAT, UH, HAVING, UH, STARTED MY ALLEGED CAREER AS AN ANTI-NUCLEAR ACTIVIST IN THE 1970S, I, UH, THE HAIR STANDS ON MY BACK WHEN I SEE THAT YOU ARE EXPLORING THE IDEA OF NUCLEAR POWER. 
          I DON'T BELIEVE THERE'S BEEN A NEW NUCLEAR POWER PLANT COMMISSIONED, UH, STARTED IN THE UNITED STATES IN DECADES. 
          THE FANTASY OF HAVING MODULAR NUCLEAR REACTORS HAS SO FAR, UH, FAILED. 
          UH, I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY IN THIS ROOM REMEMBERS THAT HALF THE REASON THAT WE ARE ALL HERE TONIGHT. 
          THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION STARTED WITH A, WITH A PROBLEMATIC NUCLEAR PLANT, THE SOUTH TEXAS NUCLEAR PLANT, WHICH AUSTIN OWNS A 16% SHARE OF, UH, HAD AN OVERRUN, UH, OF ONE FROM ONE GOING FROM, UH, $1 BILLION TO $5.6 BILLION, UH, OVER A PERIOD OF ABOUT EIGHT YEARS. 
          AND BECAUSE OF THESE EXCESSIVE HIGH COST AND POOR MANAGEMENT OF THE PROJECT, UH, PEOPLE STARTED QUESTIONING, COULDN'T WE DO BETTER INVESTING THE MONEY IN ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND, UH, PASSIVE SOLAR INSTEAD OF, UH, THIS, THIS PROBLEMATIC NUCLEAR PLANT? UH, AND SO, UH, EVEN THOUGH I REALIZE THAT THIS IS JUST SORT OF, LET'S EXPLORE THIS, UH, I'M JUST HERE TO REMIND YOU THAT, UH, THIS IS, IS A HISTORICAL PROBLEM. 
          UM, AND ON THAT NOTE, I'M, UH, I'M, MY, MY FURTHER, UH, COMMENTS, UH, WILL CEASE. 
          UH, I'M GONNA, UM, I'M GONNA ASK FOR A, UH, SENSE OF THIS COMMISSION ON, IF WE WANNA TAKE THIS UP ON TUESDAY, DECEMBER 3RD. 
          UH, YOU ASKING FOR, I'M, I'M ASKING FOR PEOPLE'S COMMENTS ON IF WE WANT TO TAKE THIS UP ON DECEMBER 3RD, POST A MEETING ON, UH, THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION'S, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS TO COUNCIL ON THE GEN PLAN. 
          JUST CHECKING THE CALENDAR. 
          BUT YEAH, THAT, THAT DATE WORKS FOR ME. 
          AND I 
          [03:00:01]
THINK CLEARLY, YOU KNOW, FROM WHAT I CAN TELL, TWO THIRDS OF WHAT WAS ON THAT LARGE SLIDE AT THE END WAS, UH, WAS BASICALLY STUFF THAT'S PROBABLY UNDER A PURVIEW. 
          IT SEEMS LIKE, UH, IF FOLKS WOULD LIKE TO, WE OUGHT TO DISCUSS AND BE PART OF THIS. 
          I THEY DON'T SEE A REASON NOT TO, SO I'M HAPPY TO MEET ON THE, ON THE THIRD. 
          I, I KNOW PAUL, THAT THAT TIME WORKED, ESPECIALLY WHILE BEING AFTER THE PLAN WILL BE RELEASED, AND I THINK ONE DAY AFTER THE EUC MEETING, WHICH IS ON THE SECOND, UH, OKAY, I I, YOUR COMMENTS ARE REGISTERED. 
          UH, COMMISSIONER FARMER, DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION? UH, YEAH, I JUST, UH, I I I, I WAS THE ONE WHO BROUGHT IT UP. 
          UH, I GUESS THE COUNTER OFFER WOULD BE LIKE, IS THERE, YOU KNOW, LIKE, COULD WE BASICALLY CRASH THE EUC MEETING INSTEAD OF CONVENING ALL SEPARATE MEETING? UM, UNLESS THIS WHOLE COMMISSION FEELS THAT CONVENING A WHOLE SECOND MEETING IS, OR SEPARATE MEETING IS, UH, UH, UH, THERE ARE, I, WE DID, THIS HAPPENED BEFORE. 
          UH, I WAS NOT ON THE COMMISSION THEN, BUT I WAS AN INTERESTED CITIZEN THEN. 
          AND I RECALL THAT, UH, EITHER THE LAST GEN PLAN OR THE ONE BEFORE, THERE WAS A JOINT MEETING AND THEN BOTH COMMISSIONS BROKE OFF SEPARATELY TO VOTE, AND WE COULD DO THAT, BUT THERE'S NO WAY THAT I CAN REACH THE CHAIR RIGHT NOW TO FIND OUT IF THAT'S POSSIBLE. 
          IF WE DID THAT, IT WOULD BE MONDAY INSTEAD OF TUESDAY. 
          IT WOULD BE MONDAY DECEMBER 2ND INSTEAD OF TUESDAY, DECEMBER 3RD. 
          I CHOSE TUESDAY BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO BE THE DAY WE MEET. 
          UM, YEAH, I MEAN, I GUESS I WAS JUST THINKING LIKE IN TERMS OF ALL THE STAFF TIME AND EVERYTHING THAT GOES INTO THIS, LIKE MAKING EVERYBODY OUTSIDE OF OUR COMMISSION HAVE TO DO THE SAME THING. 
          I, I CAN DO EITHER ONE, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE, UH, WHAT THE, UM, EU C'S PREFERENCE IS WHEN THIS IS BROACHED TO THEM. 
          UH, UM, THIS WOULD BE A DECISION FOR THE CHAIR AND MAYBE THE VICE CHAIR. 
          AND I, I DON'T THINK I CAN RAISE THEM ON THE PHONE RIGHT NOW. 
          SO I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. 
          UM, UM, COMMISSIONER, I'M GONNA JUST CALL EVERYBODY. 
          COMMISSIONER LUKI, WHAT DO YOU THINK, UM, ARE WE ENCROACHING ON, UH, THE, UH, EUC BY SHOWING UP AT THEIR MEETING? IS THAT A PROBLEM? I DON'T KNOW. 
          'CAUSE WE HAVEN'T ASKED THEM WOULD DEAL RUMBLE? IS THAT WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN? , UM, YOU, AMY EVERHART, AUSTIN ENERGY, UM, YOU CAN ATTEND THEIR MEETING AND SIGN UP TO SPEAK AND ALL OF THAT STUFF. 
          UM, I WOULD HIGHLY DOUBT THAT A JOINT MEETING OF THE TWO COMMISSIONS IS POSSIBLE AT THIS LATE DATE. 
          OKAY. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, SO IT WOULD BE A RUMBLE THEN? IT WOULD, YES. 
          . 
          UH, THE DECEMBER 3RD IS FINE. 
          UH, COMMISSIONER DAVIS, UH, I'M HAPPY TO ATTEND IF WE CHOOSE TO DO SO. 
          WELL, I'M ASKING TO, WOULD YOU CHOOSE TO DO SO? I FEEL, I HAVE TO SAY, I FEEL KIND OF RUSHED IN THIS, IN THAT THE, THE ACTUAL PLAN DOESN'T COME OUT UNTIL THE DAY BEFORE THANKSGIVING, AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE TUESDAY FOLLOWING THAT HOLIDAY. 
          SOME PEOPLE HAVE TRAVEL PLANS. 
          I'M NOT SURE I CAN COMMIT TO DIVING IN AND READING ALL OF THAT OVER THAT HOLIDAY. 
          SO I'M WORRIED ABOUT FEELING ILL-EQUIPPED BY THAT TIME TO, TO WEIGH IN ON THAT. 
          ALTHOUGH I'M CERTAINLY WILLING TO TRY, I FEEL LIKE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT. 
          UM, I, I'M, I'M AMBIVALENT ABOUT IT, I GUESS I WOULD SAY. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, COMMISSIONER FARMER, I'M CIRCLING BACK TO YOU. 
          I WANNA HEAR FROM EVERYBODY, BUT I IF SO, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO HAVE A SEPARATE MEETING. 
          IS CAN YOU, WOULD YOU WANNA GO? 
          [03:05:04]
UM, YEAH, I MEAN, I, I GUESS I'M SECOND, UH, COMMISSIONER DAVIS' AMBIVALENCE. 
          I THINK THERE'S ALSO A PATH TO JUST, YOU KNOW, SENDING OUR NOTES AS COMMISSIONERS TO THE EUC, EITHER IN PERSON OR THROUGH EUC COMMISSIONERS SO THAT THEY CAN VOICE OUR, YOU KNOW, SO THAT WE CAN STILL BE HEARD WITHOUT DRAGGING EVERYONE THROUGH, YOU KNOW, THE AUSTIN ENERGY TEAM THROUGH THOSE TWO NIGHTS IN A ROW. 
          UM, BUT IT, YEAH, I WOULD BE THERE IF WE HAD ANOTHER MEETING. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, COMMISSIONER SCAFF, I, UM, I, I, I DON'T, I CANNOT BE THERE FOR THAT DATE. 
          SO I GUESS THAT'S, THAT'S A PERSONAL, I UNDERSTAND. 
          UM, UH, IT, IT'S OUR LOSS. 
          UM, COMMISSIONER, UH, SAIS, I WOULD CERTAINLY GO TO AN ADDITIONAL MEETING. 
          I MEAN, JUST LOOKING AT THE, UM, PRESENTATIONS ON, UH, WHAT'S IT CALLED? SPEAK UP AUSTIN. 
          NOW, LIKE I'M LOOKING AT THE CONTENT THAT'S COVERED HERE, AND IT'S LIKE, IT IS LIKE A HUNDRED PERCENT OVERLAP WITH OUR, UM, OUR PURVIEW. 
          SO THIS, NOT GOING THROUGH RMC JUST LIKE, SEEMS TOTALLY WRONG AND NOT, AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S AN, IT'S RIGHT TO CALL AN OVERSIGHT OR WHAT OR WHAT, BUT IT'S JUST LIKE, IF, IF THIS IS NOT OUR, OUR DIRECT AREA, THEN I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS. 
          UM, AND SO YES, VERY MUCH FOR ADDITIONAL, ADDITIONAL MEETING. 
          UM, OKAY. 
          AND WE'LL GO WHENEVER IT IS. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, IS COMMISSIONER GARY STILL, UH, ONLINE? NO. 
          OKAY. 
          WELL, IT SEEMS TO BE THE SENSE OF, UH, MOST PEOPLE THAT THEY CAN AND WANT TO MEET. 
          SO I'M ASKING IF MS. GOODWIN WOULD PLEASE, UH, POST A MEETING FOR DECEMBER 3RD. 
          OKAY. 
          I'M SO ASKING IF MS. EVERHART WOULD, TECHNICALLY THE CHAIR CALLS A MEETING. 
          UM, YOU'RE THE ACTING CHAIR RIGHT NOW, SO I WILL ACCEPT THAT, BUT I THINK WE NEED TO TALK TO CHAIR STONE AS WELL. 
          UM, AND SO, AND THE RULE IS EITHER THE CHAIR OR A MINIMUM OF THREE COMMISSIONERS. 
          SO IF THREE OF YOU ARE CALLING IT, THEN I THINK WE, WE DON'T HAVE A CHOICE  IN THE MATTER. 
          OKAY. 
          UH, MATTER. 
          UH, AND, AND I GUESS I WOULD ALSO NOTE THAT THIS IS ALSO ON THE AGENDA FOR TOMORROW NIGHT AT THE JOINT SUSTAINABILITY COMMITTEE. 
          MAYBE THEY CAN ATTEND OUR MEETING. 
          . 
          LET'S MOVE ON. 
          UH, WE HAVE TWO ITEMS. I'M IN A, I REALIZE, UH, AS MUCH AS I DISAGREE WITH THEM, THAT TEXAS GAS SERVICE HAS BEEN WAITING A LONG TIME. 
          SO I'M GONNA TAKE UP ITEM EIGHT FIRST 
          [8. Presentation by Texas Gas Service regarding a quarterly update of the Central Texas  Energy Efficiency Program by Christy Bell, Energy Efficiency Program Supervisor.]
PRESENTATION BY TEXAS GAS SERVICE REGARDING A QUARTERLY UPDATE OF THE CENTRAL TEXAS ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM BY CHRISTIE BELL, ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM SUPERVISOR. 
          WELCOME MS. BELL. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UM, GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS. 
          UM, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME THIS EVENING AGAIN. 
          UM, MY NAME IS CHRISTIE BELL. 
          I'M THE SUPERVISOR OF THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM AT TEXAS GAS SERVICE. 
          UM, TONIGHT I'M HERE TO PROVIDE AN OVERVIEW OF, UH, OUR PROGRAM ACTIVITIES FOR THE THIRD QUARTER OF 2024. 
          SO IN THE THIRD QUARTER OF THIS YEAR, UM, ONE OF THE MAJOR THINGS WE DID WAS WE SUBMITTED A NEW STATEWIDE ENERGY CONSERVATION PROGRAM FILING WITH THE RAILROAD COMMISSION ON AUGUST 19TH. 
          UM, I'D JUST LIKE TO SHARE THAT INFORMATION. 
          I'M NOT HERE TO, UH, REPORT ON ANY OF THE DETAILS OF THAT PROGRAM WITH YOU. 
          I KNOW THAT WAS ASKED OF Y'ALL. 
          UM, BUT, UM, MY BOSS, JASMINE KING BUSH, WILL BE PROVIDING YOU DETAILS OF THAT FILING AT A LATER DATE, 
          [03:10:01]
STILL TO BE DETERMINED. 
          UM, ALSO, UH, IN THE THIRD QUARTER, SO BEGINNING IN, I'LL BACK UP A LITTLE BIT. 
          BEGINNING IN FEBRUARY OF 2024, UM, WE EMBARKED ON A COLLABORATIVE JOURNEY WITH OUR SISTER COMPANY, OKLAHOMA NATURAL GAS, AND, UM, AS WELL AS OUR ADVERTISING PARTNER, UM, TO CREATE A COMPELLING AD CAMPAIGN AIMED AT PROMOTING, UH, THE RESIDENTIAL REBATE PROGRAM. 
          UH, THE INSPIRATION BEHIND, UM, THE CAMPAIGN IS BOTH WHIMSICAL AND STRATEGIC, AND WE CHOSE THE CONCEPT OF A REBATE FERRY TO SERVE AS THE CENTRAL FIGURE IN OUR PROMOTIONS, UM, EMBODYING A PLAYFUL AND MAGICAL ESSENCE DESIGNED TO CAPTIVATE AND ENTERTAIN OUR AUDIENCE. 
          THE REBATE FERRY SYMBOLIZES EASE AND SIMPLICITY. 
          AND BY PRESENTING THE REBATE PROCESS IS SOMETHING THAT CAN BE POSSIBLE WITH A SIMPLE WAVE OF A WAND. 
          WE AIM TO REASSURE OUR CUSTOMERS THAT APPLYING FOR A REBATE IS STRAIGHTFORWARD AND HASSLE-FREE. 
          THE CAMPAIGN SLOGAN IS, IT'S, IT'S SO EASY, IT'S LIKE MAGIC AND REINFORCES THE IDEA THAT THE REBATE PROCESS IS ACCESSIBLE AND UNCOMPLICATED. 
          SO AFTER MONTHS OF DEDICATED EFFORT, THE CAMPAIGN OFFICIALLY LAUNCHED ON, UH, JULY 1ST AND EARLY FEEDBACK FROM CUSTOMERS HAS BEEN ENCOURAGING. 
          LET'S SEE. 
          OH, 1, 2, 4, SORRY GUYS. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, AND THIS SLIDE SHOWS A BAR CHART OF THE ACTUAL PROGRAM DOLLARS, UH, SPENT THROUGH SEPTEMBER YEAR TO DATE. 
          SO THOSE ARE THE AMOUNTS, UM, IN BLUE THAT YOU SEE THERE, AND HOW THESE AMOUNTS COMPARE TO THE REMAINING BUDGET, UH, FOR THE YEAR, WHICH ARE THE AMOUNTS IN ORANGE. 
          UH, THE TOP ROW INCLUDES, UH, ALL PROGRAMS, UH, REBATES AND INCENTIVES OFFERED. 
          UM, AND THEN THE AMOUNTS BELOW ARE FOR THE FOUR MAIN PROGRAM OFFERINGS THAT, THAT WE HAVE OUR NEW CONSTRUCTION, UH, COMMERCIAL FREE EQUIPMENT AND THE RESIDENTIAL RETROFIT PROGRAM. 
          UM, OUR CUSTOMER UTILIZATION CONTINUES TO TREND LOWER THAN WE WOULD LIKE FOR THE RESIDENTIAL RETROFIT AND NEW CONSTRUCTION, UH, PROGRAMS. BUT DESPITE THIS CHALLENGE, OUR COMMITMENT TO IMPROVING THESE METRICS REMAINS UNWAVERING. 
          WE HAVE IMPLEMENTED VARIOUS STRATEGIES, UH, AIMED AT REACHING NEW AUDIENCES AND ENHANCING CUSTOMER ENGAGEMENT THROUGH DIFFERENT AD CAMPAIGNS AND STRENGTHENING PARTNERSHIPS WITH LOCAL CONTRACTORS, BUILDERS, REALTORS, AND APPLIANCE RETAILERS TO HELP US SPREAD THE WORD AND PROMOTE OUR PROGRAMS. UH, THE NEXT TWO SLIDES HERE PROVIDE A DETAILED OVERVIEW OF THE PARTICIPATION, UH, METRICS FOR THE RESIDENTIAL RETROFIT PROGRAM. 
          UH, THE DATA IS BROKEN DOWN BY MONTH, ALLOWING FOR A COMPARATIVE ANALYSIS BETWEEN THE YEARS 2023 AND 2024. 
          EACH SLIDE, UM, HERE FEATURES A BAR CHART WITH BLUE AND ORANGE BARS, UH, REPRESENTING THE DATA FOR EACH MONTH. 
          THE BLUE BARS HERE, UH, CORRESPOND TO THE MONTH IN 2023, PROVIDING A BASELINE FOR COMPARISON. 
          THE ORANGE BARS ON THE OTHER HAND, DISPLAY THE PARTICIPATION METRICS FOR 2024, UH, WITH DATA EXTENDING UP TO THE END OF SEPTEMBER. 
          SO YEAR TO DATE IN 2024 ARE RESIDENTIAL RETROFIT PROGRAM HAS PAID OUT 1,164 REBATES. 
          LOOKING TO THE NEXT SLIDE HERE, UH, THIS IS AGAIN, THE SAME SET OF DATA FOR THE RESIDENTIAL RETROFIT PROGRAM, BUT THIS SLIDE SHOWS THAT YEAR TO DATE, UH, TEXAS GAS HAS DISPERSED OVER, UH, $377,000 IN PROGRAM FUNDS. 
          , UH, THIS NEXT SLIDE HIGHLIGHTS THE FREE EQUIPMENT PROGRAM THAT TEXAS GAS SERVICE ADMINISTERS. 
          UH, AGAIN, THIS PROGRAM IS DESIGNED TO ASSIST LOCAL FAMILIES IN NEED BY REPLACING OUTDATED OR NON-WORKING NATURAL GAS APPLIANCES, UH, WITH NEWER OR MORE EFFICIENT MODELS. 
          UH, THIS INITIATIVE HAS POSITIVELY IMPACTED THE COMMUNITY BY PROVIDING FAMILIES WITH RELIABLE AND SAFE APPLIANCES, WHILE ALSO REDUCING THEIR ENERGY COSTS AND IMPROVING THEIR OVERALL QUALITY OF LIFE. 
          THE PROGRAM'S SUCCESS IS DEPICTED IN THE BUBBLE MAP VISUALIZATION HERE, WHICH HIGHLIGHTS THE AREAS OF TOWN WHERE PARTICIPANTS BENEFITED MOST. 
          THE MAP ALSO SHOWS THE TYPES OF NATURAL GAS APPLIANCES THAT WERE REPLACED IN EACH AREA. 
          UM, FROM THE VISUALIZATION, IT IS EVIDENT THAT WATER HEATERS AND RANGES ARE THE MOST POPULAR APPLIANCES REPLACED UNDER THIS PROGRAM, , UH, WHICH ARE FOLLOWED CLOSELY BEHIND BY FURNACES. 
          AND THEN LASTLY, DRYERS. 
          UH, OVERALL, IN 2024, THE PROGRAM REPLACED 113 
          [03:15:01]
NATURAL GAS APPLIANCES AND ASSISTED 71 LOCAL FAMILIES. 
          BY THE END OF SEPTEMBER, THE PROGRAM HAD SPENT $315,000 IN PROGRAM FUNDS, WHICH SLIGHTLY, UH, EXCEEDING THE ANNUAL BUDGET OF 300,000. 
          SO, UM, THIS OVER EXPENDITURE UNDERSCORES THE COMMITMENT THAT TEXAS GAS SERVICE, UM, MAKES TO HELPING THOSE IN NEED WITHIN THE COMMUNITY, ENSURING THAT THE PROGRAM'S, UH, BENEFITS REACH AS MANY FAMILIES AS POSSIBLE. 
          IN THIS NEXT SLIDE, I'D LIKE TO SHOWCASE SOME OF THE ACTIVITIES WE CONDUCTED IN THE THIRD QUARTER. 
          RELATED TO OUR OUTREACH INITIATIVES, WE DISPATCHED TWO ROUNDS OF POSTCARDS TO CONTRACTORS THROUGHOUT THE THE AUSTIN AREA, ONE IN JULY AND ANOTHER IN AUGUST, ENCOURAGING THEIR PARTICIPATION TO PROMOTE OUR APPLIANCE REBATES, UM, AND ASSIST OUR SHARED CUSTOMERS IN SAVING MONEY. 
          UH, THAT'S THE IMAGE THAT YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN THERE. 
          AS AN EXAMPLE OF, UH, THE, ONE OF THE POSTCARDS WE SENT, UM, WE ALSO VISITED LOCAL APPLIANCE STORES, MAINLY LOWE'S AND HOME DEPOT, TO RAISE AWARENESS ABOUT OUR REBATE PROGRAM AND EDUCATE STORE SALES ASSOCIATES ON THE BENEFITS OF CHOOSING A HIGH EFFICIENCY NATURAL GAS APPLIANCE FOR LONG-TERM ENERGY AND COST SAVINGS. 
          UM, LASTLY THERE ON THIS SLIDE, OUR PROGRAM LAUNCHED A BILL INSERT CAMPAIGN IN JULY, UH, TARGETING ELIGIBLE RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS TO RAISE AWARENESS ABOUT THE BENEFITS OF WATER SAVING KITS AND ENCOURAGE CUSTOMERS TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE PROGRAM. 
          UM, THESE KITS ARE EQUIPPED WITH HIGH EFFICIENCY FIXTURES THAT CAN SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCE WATER CONSUMPTION IN HOMES AND ULTIMATELY ENERGY COSTS AS WELL. 
          UM, THE CAMPAIGN EMPHASIZED THE POTENTIAL WATER SAVINGS HIGHLIGHTING THAT CUSTOMERS COULD SAVE MORE THAN 4,600 GALLONS OF WATER ANNUALLY BY INSTALLING THE FIXTURES, UM, INCLUDED IN THE KIT. 
          UM, AGAIN, THE KITS INCLUDE TWO STAINLESS STEEL WATER SENSE BATHROOM FAUCET ATTACHMENTS, UH, KITCHEN SWIVEL FAUCET ATTACHMENT, A LOW FLOW SHOWER HEAD, AND PLUMBING TAPE FOR INSTALLATION. 
          THE RESPONSE TO THE BILL INSERT CAMPAIGN WAS OVERWHELMINGLY POSITIVE. 
          BY THE END OF SEPTEMBER, THE PROGRAM HAD DISTRIBUTED 1,896 WATER SAVING KITS TO ELIGIBLE CUSTOMERS ACROSS THE CENTRAL TEXAS AREA. 
          THIS NEXT SLIDE HIGHLIGHTS SOME OF THE EDUCATION, UM, AND SOCIAL MEDIA CAMPAIGNS THAT OUR TEAM WAS ENGAGED IN DURING THE THIRD QUARTER. 
          UH, DURING JULY AND AUGUST, WE LAUNCHED A COMPREHENSIVE SOCIAL MEDIA CAMPAIGN AIMED AT EDUCATING OUR CUSTOMERS ABOUT ENERGY CONSERVATION AND COST SAVING MEASURES. 
          THE CAMPAIGN FEATURED A SERIES OF ENGAGING POSTS, EACH OFFERING PRACTICAL TIPS AND INSIGHTS TO HELP OUR CUSTOMERS REDUCE THEIR ENERGY CONSUMPTION AND LOWER THEIR UTILITY BILLS. 
          UH, THE IMAGE ON THE LEFT OF, UH, OF THIS SLIDE IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE MESSAGES SHARED DURING THIS CAMPAIGN ILLUSTRATING OUR COMMITMENT TO PROVIDING VALUABLE, UH, BEHAVIORAL EDUCATION TO OUR CUSTOMERS. 
          UM, THE IMAGE ON THE RIGHT, UH, IS, UH, SO IN ADDITION TO THE, THE ENERGY, ENERGY SAVING TIPS THAT WE SHARED WITH OUR CUSTOMERS, UM, WE ALSO SHARED, UM, AGAIN, OUR, OUR LATEST ENERGY EFFICIENCY ANNUAL REPORT, UM, ACROSS ALL OUR SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS IN AUGUST. 
          UM, IT'S AVAILABLE ON OUR WEBSITE AS WELL, BUT, UM, LIKE I SAY, WE, WE SHARED IT ON OUR, OUR SOCIAL MEDIA CHANNELS AS WELL. 
          UM, SO I BELIEVE THAT CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION FOR OUR THIRD QUARTER UPDATES. 
          UM, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND ATTENTION, AND I'M HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE. 
          COMMISSIONERS, ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? YOU'RE NOT GONNA JUST LEAVE THIS TO ME. 
          ARE YOU ? YES. 
          OKAY. 
          I GUESS I'M JUST HANGING OUT HERE. 
          WELL, THIS IS, THIS IS NOT MY FIRST RODEO. 
          I HAVE PRESENTED TO Y'ALL BEFORE, AND SO IN MY PRESENTATION, I KNOW I'VE GIVEN YOU SOME OF THESE, UH, THIS DATA AND INFORMATION IN THE PAST. 
          AND SO I'M TRYING TO BE RESPONSIVE TO, UM, AND LISTEN TO Y'ALL'S QUESTIONS, UM, SO THAT I CAN PROVIDE YOU AS MUCH INFORMATION THAT YOU, THAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR. 
          UH, AND IT'S MY CUSTOM TO OFFER, UH, COMMISSIONERS, UH, THAT WHEN I'M SHARING, TO OFFER TO LET THEM SPEAK. 
          BEFORE I DO, SO I'M ASKING ONE MORE TIME, DO ANY OF THE COMMISSIONERS HAVE QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? OKAY. 
          UM, I'M GONNA DIRECT 
          [03:20:01]
THESE QUESTIONS TO MR. GRAHAM, IF IT'S OKAY. 
          I, I, I THINK WE HAVE TO ASK MR. GRAHAM , BUT YES. 
          WELL, HE'D BE THE MORE APPROPRIATE ONE TO ASK SINCE SURE, SURE. 
          THANK YOU. 
          SOME OF WHAT I'M ABOUT TO ASK IS, UH, MORE HIS PURVIEW. 
          UH, MS. GOODWIN, UH, I, I SUBMITTED, UH, A VERY SHORT POWERPOINT WITH A COUPLE QUESTIONS, AND I DID THIS BASICALLY JUST TO ASSIST, UH, THE COMMISSIONERS, BUT I CAN READ 'EM OUT LOUD. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, IN WORKING, UH, THIS IS FROM THE 2000 CITY OF AUSTIN FRANCHISE WITH TEXAS GAS SERVICES. 
          THIS IS SECTION 4.7. 
          UH, THE COMPANY SHALL ACTIVELY SUPPORT CONSERVATION OF NATURAL GAS BY DESIGNING, IMPLEMENTING, MONITORING, AND EVALUATING SUCH CONSERVATION PROGRAMS. I'VE HIGHLIGHTED THE EXTENT OF THE COMPANY'S SPECIFIC PARTICIPATION IN THE CONSERVATION OF NATURAL GAS SHALL BE DETERMINED BY ORDINANCES THAT THIS COUNCIL MAY ADOPT FROM TIME TO TIME DURING THE TERM OF THE FRANCHISE. 
          MR. GRAHAM, YOUR COMPANY WENT TO THE TEXAS LEGISLATURE TO LOBBY AGAINST THE LANGUAGE WHICH THE COMPANY SIGNED, PRESUMABLY IN GOOD FAITH IN 2006. 
          COULD YOU EXPLAIN THIS, PLEASE? WELL, I, I DISAGREE THAT WE WERE, WE, WE SUPPORTED THE LEGISLATION, PAUL, WE DID. 
          UM, I DON'T THINK WE DID IT IN OPPOSITION TO THIS, NOR DOES IT CONTRADICT THIS. 
          AND, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE REASONS WE DID THIS IS SO THAT WE CAN DOUBLE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO WILL BE ELIGIBLE TO GET REBATES IN THE STATE OF TEXAS THAT WE SERVE. 
          THAT'S, THAT'S WHY WE DID IT. 
          SO, I, I MEAN, I, I DISAGREE. 
          WE'RE GONNA CONTINUE TO HAVE A, UH, AN ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM ONCE IT TRANSFERS TO THE AUTHORITY TRANSFERS TO THE RAILROAD COMMISSION. 
          UM, I, I, SO, I, I I DON'T, JUST BECAUSE THE AUTHORITY IS CHANGING DOESN'T MEAN I DON'T BELIEVE IT MEANS WE'RE GONNA BE IN CONTRADICTION TO THIS. 
          THE CITY COUNCIL NO LONGER GOVERNS THIS BECAUSE YOU WENT TO THE LEGISLATURE TO OVERRIDE THIS PROVISION. 
          I MEAN, IT'S, YEAH, I, I, I DISAGREE WITH YOU. 
          THAT WASN'T OUR INTENT. 
          IT REALLY WASN'T OUR, I MEAN, WELL, THAT'S THE EFFECT. 
          NO, THE EFFECT IS, PAUL, WE SERVE, I THINK, 105 DIFFERENT CITIES IN THE STATE OF TEXAS. 
          AND TO HAVE TO HAVE DEAL WITH 105 CITIES AUTHORITY ON ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAMS IS COMPLETELY IMPRACTICAL. 
          AND WE WANT TO CONTINUE TO LISTEN, AND WE WILL CONTINUE TO COME HERE. 
          IF YOU WANT US TO COME, WE WILL THROUGH THE TERM END OF THE FRANCHISE. 
          UM, AND I DON'T THINK THE PROGRAMS HAVE CHANGED, ARE GONNA CHANGE THAT DRAMATICALLY. 
          THERE'S GONNA BE SOME DIFFERENCES. 
          UM, SO I, I MEAN, PAUL, IF YOU, I, I DISAGREE WITH YOU. 
          I, YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, WE'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO OFFER THIS TO ABOUT THE SAME NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THE CITY OF EL PASO, THAT WE KNOW THAT WE CURRENTLY DO NOT HAVE PROGRAMS. WE CAN'T OFFER THEM PROGRAMS. WE HAVE CUSTOMERS IN UNINCORPORATED AREAS THAT WE CAN'T OFFER REBATES TO. 
          SO WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA END UP DOUB WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE, WE'RE GONNA DOUBLE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE ELIGIBLE FOR REBATES. 
          UM, IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE, BY ALL MEANS, TAKE IT UP WITH THE CITY. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO TELL YOU. 
          WE'RE GONNA CONTINUE TO HAVE A ROBUST ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM. 
          I AM GONNA SAY ONE MORE TIME BEFORE I MOVE ON. 
          THIS IS THE LANGUAGE YOUR COMPANY SIGNED. 
          I, I, I'M FAMILIAR WITH IT. 
          YES. 
          IT'S FROM THE FRANCHISE, AND WE ARE NO LONGER GOVERNED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. 
          WE ARE, UH, AUSTIN CITY COUNCIL. 
          WE ARE, THESE PROGRAMS ARE NOW GOVERNED BY THE TEXAS RAILROAD COMMISSION. 
          AND IT'S BECAUSE YOU ALL, UH, ALONG WITH THE TWO OTHER MAJOR GAS COMPANIES, UH, 
          [03:25:01]
LOBBIED THE LEGISLATURE. 
          UM, I'M NOT, YOU, DID YOU SEE THE LIST OF SUPPORTERS WHO SUPPORTED THE BILL? I DID, AND I DON'T, WASN'T IT LIKE THE SIERRA CLUB? THE SIERRA CLUB DID INDEED, YEAH. 
          SUPPORT THE BILL UNTIL SPEAR. 
          AND THEN WHEN I INFORMED THEM OF WHAT THIS MEANT, THERE WAS A LOT OF DOUBLE TAKE. 
          UH, I DON'T THINK I, I KNOW THIS BECAUSE I TRIED TO DIG IN AND FIND OUT WHY THE CITY OF AUSTIN DID NOT OPPOSE THIS, AND THEY DIDN'T EVEN THE, AS FAR AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THEIR REGULATORY AFFAIRS PERSON DID NOT KNOW THIS WAS SIGNED BY TEXAS GAS SERVICE. 
          BUT YOU SURELY DID. 
          YEAH, WE, WE HAVE NEVER SAID OTHERWISE. 
          WE SUPPORTED IT. 
          UH, I THINK JASMINE SPOKE AT A HOUSE COMMITTEE HEARING. 
          SO WE, WE, WE NEVER, WE, WE NEVER HID THIS FROM ANYBODY. 
          PAUL AND, AND PAUL, YOU'LL STILL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY. 
          IT'LL BE AT THE RAILROAD COMMISSION. 
          IT'LL BE DOWN THE STREET. 
          IT WON'T BE HERE OR AT CITY HALL TO PROVIDE INPUT. 
          EXCUSE ME. 
          WE'RE GONNA HAVE ONE PROGRAM ACROSS THE STATE EVENTUALLY. 
          WE DO NOT EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU PROPOSED. 
          YOU HAVEN'T GIVEN US THE DATA. 
          I'M GONNA, UH, GO. 
          GOOD EVENING. 
          JASMINE KING BUSH, UH, ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM MANAGER. 
          UH, I'M, I'M STEPPING UP, UM, COMMISSIONER ROBBINS BECAUSE I WAS INTIMATELY INVOLVED WITH IT, AND I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT I GIVE YOU FIRSTHAND INFORMATION. 
          UM, WE ARE VERY MUCH AWARE OF WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING. 
          IT'S VERY SIMILAR TO THE PROGRAM THAT IS IN EXISTENCE RIGHT NOW. 
          AND AS, UM, MR. GRAHAM SAID, THE PURPOSE OF THE EXPANSION OF THE PROGRAM IS WE HAVE CUSTOMERS IN AUSTIN THAT CANNOT PARTICIPATE IN THE PROGRAM. 
          SO THEY CANNOT REDUCE THEIR CARBON FOOTPRINT. 
          THEY CANNOT REDUCE THEIR GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS. 
          THEY CANNOT REALIZE WATER SAVINGS BECAUSE OF THE CONSTRAINTS OF THE PROGRAM BEING CONFINED TO THE CITY LIMITS. 
          UM, AS MR. GRAHAM POINTED OUT, HAVING TO GO CITY BY CITY TO GAIN APPROVAL FOR A PROGRAM IS LABORIOUS. 
          IT'S COSTLY. 
          THIS IS A NON-REVENUE GENERATING PROGRAM. 
          SO THAT IS THE, THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE CATALYST FOR SEEKING STATEWIDE APPROVAL FOR THE PROGRAMS THAT WE FILED FOR. 
          YES, WELL DO CONSIDER THAT, UH, REBATES FOR GAS CLOSED DRYERS THAT HAVE PAYBACKS OF 200 YEARS REALLY ISN'T DOING A LOT FOR THE CARBON FOOTPRINT OF PEOPLE. 
          UH, YOUR CUSTOMERS, UH, AGAIN, UH, ARE WE ON, UH, COULD YOU FLIP TO THE SECOND SLIDE? DON'T WORRY. 
          THERE'S ONLY TWO. 
          NO WORRIES. 
          UH, THIS IS, UH, CONTINUATION OF THE PART OF, UH, THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT THAT TEXAS GAS SERVICE SIGNED WITH THE CITY OF AUSTIN. 
          IN WORKING WITH THE CITY, THE COMPANY SHALL ATTEND MEETINGS OF THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION OR SUCCESSOR BOARD OR COMMISSION AT LEAST ONCE EVERY CALENDAR QUARTER FOR CONSIDERATION OF NATURAL GAS, UH, CONSERVATION PROGRAMS. WELL, YOU HAVEN'T TOLD US WHAT YOU'RE PLANNING ON DOING, UH, IN THIS, UH, WITH THE, UM, APPLICATION THAT YOU SUBMITTED, UH, AUGUST 19TH. 
          UH, SO HOW IT'S LIKE YOU'RE GOING TO THEM, BUT NOT COMING TO US. 
          I MEAN, EVEN IF WE ARE AN ADVISORY BOARD, UH, WE CAN'T ADVISE ON SOMETHING WHERE YOU'VE ALREADY SUBMITTED THE PLAN. 
          SO, THE, UM, APPLICATION IS PUBLICLY AVAILABLE AS IT WAS FILED IN AUGUST. 
          IT IS ON THE RAILROAD COMMISSION SITE. 
          IT IS ALSO ON OUR WEBSITE. 
          SO BOTH PUBLICLY AVAILABLE AREAS. 
          UM, AT THIS TIME, BECAUSE THE PROGRAM HAS NOT BEEN PUBLICLY NOTICED, WE CANNOT RELEASE AND SPEAK TO ANYTHING THAT'S GONNA BE SET IN STONE BECAUSE IT HASN'T BEEN APPROVED YET. 
          PUBLIC NOTICE HAS NOT BEEN APPROVED YET. 
          BUT IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO VIEW THE PROGRAM AS IT'S BEEN FILED, YOU ARE MORE WELCOME TO MORE THAN WELCOME TO DO THAT. 
          THIS, THIS IS NOT MY MAIN POINT. 
          MY MAIN POINT IS IF WE, YOU ALL ARE ACCORDING 
          [03:30:01]
TO THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT, UH, ASKING US TO CONSIDER, UH, AND ADVISE, AND YOU HAVE NOT COME TO US WITH THE PLAN, WE CANNOT CONSIDER AND ADVISE WE DISAGREE. 
          UM, COMMISSION, ALMOST ALL OF YOU, ALL OF YOU KNOW OF MY LONGSTANDING COMPLAINTS ABOUT HOW THESE PROGRAMS ARE NOT COST EFFECTIVE. 
          AND I DO MY BEST TO CONTAIN MY COMMENTS AND IT'S LATE. 
          AND UNLESS OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE COMMENTS, UH, I'M GONNA STOP THERE. 
          BUT I VIEW THIS AS DIRECT CONFLICT WITH WHAT THE COMPANY SIGNED IN. 
          GOOD FAITH. 
          I STAND, I AM. 
          I'M THROUGH WITH MY OWN COMMENTS. 
          DO OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE ANYTHING ELSE THEY WANT TO SAY ON THIS MATTER? VERY WELL. 
          UH, OUR LAST ITEM, AND THIS WAS PUT IN MOSTLY AS A PLACEHOLDER ITEM 
          [7. Discussion regarding the proposed Resource Management Commission Texas Gas  Service Bylaw Amendments]
SEVEN, TO DISCUSSION REGARDING THE PROPOSED RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION, TEXAS GAS SERVICE BYLAW AMENDMENTS, WHERE WE WOULD ADVISE. 
          WE HAVE ASKED THE AUDIT AND FINANCE COMMITTEE OF THE CITY COUNCIL TO BROADEN OUR COMMISSION'S PURVIEW TO ADVISE JUST NOT ON CONSERVATION, BUT ON ALL MATTERS RELATING TO THE GAS UTILITY. 
          UH, WE DID MEET WITH, UH, THE DIRECTOR OF, UH, I BELIEVE IT WAS THE DIRECTOR OF FINANCE AT THE CITY THIS AFTERNOON, AND DISCUSSED, UH, POSSIBLE CHANGES IN OUR PROPOSED WORDING. 
          AND, UM, THEY ARE GOING TO, UH, POSSIBLY COME BACK WITH SOME SUGGESTED ALTERNATIVE LANGUAGE THAT, UH, WILL MAKE IT SLIGHTLY, UH, EASIER FOR, UM, THEM TO, UH, DEAL WITH THE PROPOSAL. 
          UH, BOTH COMMISSIONER SCHWARTZ AND COMMISSIONER DAVIS WERE AT THIS MEETING WITH ME. 
          UH, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU'D LIKE TO ADD? I THINK YOU SUMMED IT UP WELL. 
          YEAH. 
          SO WE'RE WAITING TO HEAR BACK RIGHT NOW. 
          RIGHT. 
          UH, AND THEN RIGHT. 
          AND FURTHER, AND, UH, COMMISSIONER, UH, DAVIS? NO, I CAME AWAY WITH A SENTIMENT THAT, UM, THEY WERE RECEPTIVE TO OUR COMMISSION, UH, PROVIDING ADVICE ON KIND OF POLICY, UM, YOU KNOW, FRAMEWORKS AS IT RELATES TO THE UTILITY. 
          UM, AND IT SEEMED LIKE MORE OF A DISCREPANCY IN TERMS OF WHAT THE, THE WORDING AND THE LANGUAGE MEANT. 
          AND SO THAT WAS KIND OF MY TAKE. 
          WE DID OUR BEST TO, UH, ASSUAGE THEIR CONCERNS THAT, UH, WE WERE TOO DEMANDING. 
          UH, WE, WE BASICALLY SAID THAT WE'RE NOT ASKING ANYTHING THAT THE ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION AND THE WATER WASTE WATER COMMISSION ARE NOT ALREADY DOING, AND THEY'RE SIMILAR ROLES. 
          UM, SO, UH, WITH 
          [FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
THAT, WE ONLY HAVE ONE OTHER ITEM, WHICH IS NEW BUSINESS. 
          I'M GONNA MAKE THE SUGGESTION THAT WE PUT, UH, THE BYLAW AMENDMENT ON, UH, FOR DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE VOTE. 
          UH, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE TO VOTE AGAIN ON SOMETHING THAT IS COMPROMISE WORDING, BECAUSE WE WERE EXPECTING COMPROMISE WORDING WHEN THIS WAS SUBMITTED TO AUSTIN FINANCE, UH, COM. 
          THE, THE COUNCIL 
          [03:35:01]
AUSTIN, UH, I'M LOSING IT HERE. 
          AUDIT AND FINANCE COMMITTEE. 
          THANK YOU ONCE AGAIN. 
          UH, SO THIS MAY, THIS HOPEFULLY WILL NOT REQUIRE ANOTHER VOTE, BUT JUST TO MAKE TRIPLE SURE. 
          IT, WE, WE MIGHT NEED THE OPTION. 
          UH, ARE THERE ANY OTHER RECOMMENDATIONS FOR, UH, NEW BUSINESS? UH, WE HAVE A HAND UP, UH, FROM COMMISSIONER FARMER. 
          UM, ARE, IS AMY OR, OR RICHARD STILL THERE? UH, YES. 
          UH, MS. EVERHART IS THERE. 
          I WAS JUST WONDERING ABOUT THE, UM, THE MEMO FOR THE, UH, AFFORDABLE HOUSING INCENTIVE PROGRAM. 
          IF THAT HAD GONE OUT TO THE EUC YESTERDAY. 
          I DIDN'T SEE IT IN THE PACKET AND DIDN'T RECEIVE ANYTHING, SO I JUST WANTED TO SEE IF THAT WAS STILL PENDING OR, UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S BEEN OFFICIALLY RELEASED YET. 
          LET ME SEE IF I CAN FIND OUT REAL QUICK. 
          UM, YEAH, I MEAN, I GUESS IF IT HAS, IT HAS NOT BEEN RELEASED OFFICIALLY TO THE MAYOR AND COUNCIL YET. 
          OKAY, COOL. 
          DO YOU, UM, I'M ASSUMING YOU DON'T HAVE A DATE FOR WHEN THAT'LL BE, BUT IT'S UP TO THE CITY MANAGER. 
          OH, OKAY. 
          I DIDN'T REALIZE I RAN THROUGH THAT. 
          ALL RIGHT, THANKS. 
          ARE THERE ANY OTHER, UH, IDEAS FOR NEW BUSINESS ITEMS? OKAY, WITH THAT, I THINK WE ARE ADJOURNED. 
          UH, IT'S BEEN AN INTERESTING EVENING.
* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.