Feb 03, 2025 Special Resource Management

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RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION TO ORDER AT 6:04 PM WE'LL START WITH THE ROLL CALL VICE CHAIR ROBBINS HERE.

UH, COMMISSIONER DAVIS.

HERE.

COMMISSIONER FARMER.

COMMISSIONER GARY.

COMMISSIONER LUKI.

HERE.

COMMISSIONER ARIUS? HERE.

COMMISSIONER SCAFF.

COMMISSIONER SCHWARTZ.

COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN HERE.

OKAY.

UH, BEFORE WE GET STARTED, I JUST WANTED TO LET YOU ALL KNOW THAT, UH, COMMISSIONER SCAFF HAS SUBMITTED HER FORMAL RESIGNATION FROM THE COMMISSION.

UM, IT WAS EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY.

UM, SHE WANTED TO THANK EVERYONE FOR WORKING WITH HER ON A FEW INITIATIVES OVER THE YEAR, AND, UH, THAT SHE LOOKS FORWARD TO CONTINUING TO WORK IN THIS SPACE IN THE FUTURE IN A DIFFERENT CAPACITY.

THAT HAVING BEEN SAID, UH, PUBLIC COMMUNICATION.

DO WE HAVE ANYBODY SIGN UP TO SPEAK THIS EVENING? BEAUTIFUL.

MOVING RIGHT

[1. Approve the minutes of the Resource Management Commission Regular Meeting on November 19, 2024 and approve the minutes of the Resource Management Commission Special Called Meeting on December 3, 2024]

UM, YOU RECEIVED COPIES OF THE MINUTES FROM THE LAST MEETING.

UM, IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE ACCURATE AND GOOD TO GO, THEN I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION IF YOU FEEL THAT THERE IS AN ADJUSTMENT THAT MAY NEED TO BE MADE.

THIS IS YOUR MOMENT TO SAY SO.

COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.

SO MOVED.

THERE'S A MOTION TO SECOND, UH, UM, .

THERE, THERE MAY BE AN AMENDMENT, THOUGH.

SO THEN DON'T SECOND .

WELL, THERE ARE TWO, HMM, TWO SETS OF MINUTES.

THERE ARE TWO SETS OF MINUTES.

YES.

TWO DIFFERENT MINUTES? YES.

OH, OKAY.

SO WE'RE ALL GOOD WITHIN NOVEMBER 19.

I'M SORRY.

SO WE HAD THE NOVEMBER 19 MINUTES AS WELL AS THE DECEMBER THREE MINUTES, AND WE'LL START WITH NOVEMBER 19.

UH, IF YOU ARE OKAY WITH THE MINUTES OF THE DEC NOVEMBER 19 MEETING, I WOULD BE HAPPY TO ENTERTAIN A MOTION, MOVE TO APPROVE.

SO MOVE BY COMMISSIONER DAVIS AND SECOND, SECOND, SECONDED BY THE VICE CHAIR.

UH, ASSUMING THERE IS NO OPPOSITION, WE'LL CONSIDER THIS TO BE A VOTE OF ACCLAMATION AND MOVE ON.

SO ENTERED DECEMBER 3RD MINUTES ARE ALSO IN YOUR PACKETS AS WELL FOR FURTHER REVIEW.

ARE THERE ARE ANY COMMENTS OR ADJUSTMENTS THAT NEED TO BE MADE TO THEM? COMMISSIONER DAVIS.

UM, THANK YOU.

UH, MR. CHAIR, THE DRAFT MINUTES THAT WERE CIRCULATED INCLUDE, UM, A, A STATEMENT THAT THE MOTION TO RECOMMEND AUSTIN ENERGY'S RESOURCE GENERATION AND CLIMATE PROTECTION PLAN WAS RECOMMENDED, DOT, DOT, DOT.

UM, AND I'D JUST LIKE TO REMIND THE COMMISSION THAT, UH, THE RMC DID NOT IN FACT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE AUSTIN ENERGY RESOURCE GENERATION AND CLIMATE PROTECTION PLAN.

WHAT WE DID RECOMMEND WAS A LIST OF 13 SEPARATE, UH, MODIFICATIONS TO THAT PLAN.

AND, UM, I WOULD LIKE THE, THE MINUTES TO REFLECT THAT.

UH, IN ADDITION, THE, THE ITEM DESCRIPTION ON THE MINUTES SHOULD READ, UH, THE SAME AS ON THE ORIGINAL AGENDA, WHICH WAS APPROVAL OF A RECOMMENDATION ON AUSTIN ENERGY'S RESOURCE GENERATION AND CLIMATE PROTECTION PLAN.

ARE THERE ANY OBJECTIONS, MR. SILVERSTEIN? I SUPPORT COMMISSIONER DAVIS' MODIFICATIONS.

OKAY.

ARE THERE ANY OBJECTIONS THAT MODIFICATION THERE BEING NONE.

WE'LL CONSIDER THAT ENTERED.

I AM HAPPY TO APPROVE, TO ENTERTAIN A MOTION.

I SO MOVE SECOND MO A MOTION BY THE VICE CHAIR TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES AS AMENDED.

SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.

UH, ARE THERE, IF THERE ARE ANY OBJECTIONS, I WILL ENTERTAIN THEM.

OTHERWISE, I WILL CONSIDER THIS TO BE A VOTE OF ACCLAMATION AS WELL.

THERE BEING NONE.

THOSE MINUTES ARE APPROVED AS WELL.

MOVING

[2. Discussion and recommend against merging the Resource Management Commission and the Zero Waste Advisory Commission.]

I BELIEVE THIS IS ALSO YOUR INITIATIVE.

COMMISSIONER DAVIS? YES.

THANK YOU.

SO I'LL LET YOU SET THE TABLE.

THANK YOU.

UM, SO AS YOU KNOW, THERE IS AN EFFORT TO STREAMLINE THE CITY'S BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS.

UH, HOPEFULLY YOU ARE ALL ABLE TO SUB SUBMIT YOUR VIEWS.

UH, VIA THE FEEDBACK SURVEY THAT WAS SENT OUT A COUPLE WEEKS AGO, UH, COUNCIL ADOPTED A RESOLUTION IN DECEMBER TO INVENTORY, UM, ALL OF THE BODIES AND MAKE UPDATES TO CITY CODE TO IMPROVE THE CLARITY OF THE PURPOSE AND ESSENTIALLY THE EFFICIENCY OF, UH, THE VARIOUS BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS.

UM, AND WITHIN THAT RESOLUTION, THERE WERE A NUMBER OF DRAFT RECOMMENDED ACTIONS WITH RESPECT TO SOME OF THE BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS, INCLUDING SUN SETTING, SOME CHANGING SCOPE, AND MERGING CERTAIN BODIES, INCLUDING A RECOMMENDATION TO MERGE THE ZERO WASTE ADVISORY COMMISSION AND THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION.

AND MY SENSE IS THAT THIS WAS A WELL-INTENTIONED IDEA THAT CAME ABOUT BECAUSE BOTH OF THESE BOARDS OR BOTH OF THESE COMMISSIONS DEAL WITH CONSERVATION IN A SENSE, UH, REDUCING WASTE AND REDUCING ENERGY AND WATER USAGE CAN BE THOUGHT OF

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I, I COULD IMAGINE, UM, AND THERE ARE A FEW INSTANCES WHERE, UH, TOPICS CONSIDERED BY THE RMC AND TOPICS CONSIDERED BY THE ZERO WASTE MAY OVERLAP, SUCH AS ELECTRIFICATION OF THE AUSTIN RESOURCE RECOVERY FLEET.

HOWEVER, MY CONCERN WITH MERGING THESE TWO COMMISSIONS HAS TO DO WITH CAPACITY AND EXPERTISE.

UH, AUSTIN ENERGY ALREADY SPEND QUITE A DEAL OF, OF TIME ENGAGING THEIR STAFF, ENGAGING WITH THIS COMMISSION WITH THE ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION.

UM, NOT TO MENTION, UH, WE ENGAGE WITH AUSTIN WATER, TEXAS GAS, AND, UM, ADDING AUSTIN RESOURCE RECOVERY STAFF AND ZERO WASTE TO THE MIX, IN MY VIEW, WOULD, WOULD EXPAND THE SCOPE OF ISSUES THAT WE, UH, CONSIDER, UM, AND ASK BOTH THE CITY STAFF AND COMMISSIONERS TO ENGAGE ON A WIDE RANGE OF TOPICS THAT AREN'T RELATED TO THEIR DAY-TO-DAY RESPONSIBILITIES OR EXPERTISE OR INTEREST.

SO, UM, FROM MY VIEW, IT, IT FEELS LIKE THIS COULD BE ONE OF THOSE TIMES WHEN, UH, THE ACTUAL RESULT OF A CHANGE ENDS UP BEING THE, THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT WAS INTENDED.

SO, UM, I, I DID, UH, SHARE A, A RESOLUTION.

I THINK WE COULD BRING IT UP ON THE, ON THE SCREEN THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL.

BUT IT ESSENTIALLY SAYS KIND OF THE, THE THINGS THAT I'VE, I'VE SAID, UM, THE PURPOSE OF ZERO WASTE ADVISES COUNSEL ON SOLID WASTE MANAGEMENT POLICIES AND RESOURCES.

ITEM TWO.

YEAH, IT'S A DIFFERENT DOCUMENT.

THAT'S IT.

THANK YOU.

SO THAT'S ABOUT WHAT I HAVE TO SAY.

I'LL ENTERTAIN ANY DISCUSSION OR QUESTIONS.

ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM THE MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION? UH, I SEE COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN FIRST IN LINE.

UM, I WANNA THANK COMMISSIONER DAVIS FOR RAISING THESE ISSUES.

I THINK THAT THERE IS VERY LIMITED, AS YOU POINT OUT, OVERLAP BETWEEN THE TWO COMMISSIONS RESPONSIBILITIES, AND IN ALL LIKELIHOOD, EQUALLY LIMITED EXPERTISE ON THE PART, THE ME ON THE PARTS OF THE MEMBERS OF EACH COMMISSION.

AND I AGREE THAT IT WOULD DO THE PEOPLE OF AUSTIN A DISSERVICE BY THROWING A BUNCH OF US TOGETHER INTO A SINGLE COMMISSION WHERE MOST OF US DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HALF THE TIME OR MORE.

SO, I, I SUPPORT YOUR, YOUR RESOLUTION.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

VICE CHAIR ROBERTS.

UH, I COULD GO ON FOR 20 MINUTES, BUT I'LL GIVEN, UH, OUR TIME CONSTRAINTS, UH, I'M GOING TO HOLD ALL MY COMMENTS, UH, ON WHAT A, UM, BAD IDEA SOMEONE, UH, HAD ON THIS.

UH, IT'S ALL, ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR THOUGHTS FROM MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION? OTHERWISE, I'M HAPPY TO ENTERTAIN A MOTION.

I SO MOVE.

THERE'S BEEN A MOTION BY THE VICE CHAIR TO, UH, APPROVE THE RESOLUTION AGAINST MERGING THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION AND ZERO WASTE ADVISORY COMMISSION.

IS THERE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND.

SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LUKI.

WE'LL DO A ROLL CALL.

VOTE ON THIS ONE.

VICE CHAIR ROBBINS? YES.

COMMISSIONER DAVIS.

YES.

COMMISSIONER FARMER.

COMMISSIONER GARY.

COMMISSIONER LUKI? YES.

COMMISSIONER TI COMMISSIONER? YES.

COMMISSIONER SCAFF.

COMMISSIONER SCHWARTZ? YES.

COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN? YES.

AND THE CHAIR VOTES YES AS WELL.

SO THAT IS 7 0 0 RE THE RECOMMENDATION PASSES.

MOVING

[3. Discussion regarding changes to Austin Energy’s Residential Rooftop Solar Program, with inclusion of energy storage batteries]

UH, COMMISSIONER ARIUS, THIS IS, UH, YOUR BABY.

SO WE'LL YIELD THE FLOOR TO YOU TO SET THE TABLE.

UM, OBVIOUSLY THE LONGER YOU GO, THE LESS INTERESTED I BECOME .

I'D LIKE TO REMIND THE CHAIR THAT NUMBER OF SLIDES DOES NOT NECESSARILY TRANSLATE TO LENGTH OF PRESENT PRESENTING TIME.

I ACTUALLY WANTED TO OPEN BY ASKING, UH, FOLKS THE EXTENT TO WHICH

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WE COULD ALSO JUST GO STRAIGHT TO, HEY, I HAD A QUESTION ABOUT X, Y, Z PART.

SO I KNOW THESE FOLKS HAVE, 'CAUSE WE ARE THE, THE, I'VE LOOKED AT IT.

COMMISSIONER, I'D LOVE FOR YOU TO LIGHTLY GO OVER YEAH.

YOUR STRONGEST POINTS FOR ME.

I THINK THAT'S A FAIR WAY OF PUTTING IT.

I THINK IF YOU SET THE TABLE IN ABOUT 10 MINUTES WORTH OF TIME, THEN YOU KNOW, I THINK WE'LL GET THE GIST.

AND THEN AT THAT POINT THEN WE CAN START PEPPERING WITH QUESTIONS.

AND THEN WE CAN ALSO ASK AUSTIN ENERGY FOR SOME COMMENTS, UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY ARE PREPARING FOR OUR MEETING ON FEBRUARY 18TH, UH, TO GIVE A MORE FORMAL PRESENTATION ON THESE ISSUES.

OKAY.

THAT SOUNDS GOOD TO ME.

FLOOR IS YOURS, SIR.

WOULD YOU GO TO THE FIRST, UH, SLIDE OF THE PRESENTATION? OKAY.

SO O OVERVIEW.

UM, SO THIS IS, IS, UH, MY RESOLUTION WITH MY CO-SPONSORS HERE ON THE, ON THE RIGHT.

UM, SO WHAT IS THIS? IT'S A RESOLUTION TO IMPROVE, UM, AUSTIN ENERGY, SOLAR REBATE, UM, PROGRAM AND INSPECTION INCLUSIVE SOLAR AND BATTERIES.

UM, AND I'LL, LET ME SAY A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT WHY ON THE NEXT, UH, PAGE.

SO THERE'S AN IMPORTANT UNDERLYING CLAIM HERE, WHICH IS THAT DEMAND GROWTH IS COMING FOR, FOR ALL OF US.

SO RIGHT NOW THE BASELINE LOAD ON ANY GIVEN SUMMER DAY IS 60 GIGAWATTS.

UM, BUT THAT IS EXPECTED TO GO UP.

YOU CAN LOOK AT ALL KINDS OF PROJECTIONS, BUT I THINK THERE ARE SOME THINGS WE CAN ALL ANCHOR TO, UM, THAT WE SEE HAPPENING IN OUR, OUR DAILY LIVES.

SO PASSENGER VEHICLE ELECTRIFICATION, GOING OFF OF TEXT DATA, THIS IS GONNA ADD 10 TO 20 GIGAWATTS OF, OF BASE LOAD AND THE NEED FOR 130 GIGAWATT HOURS OF BATTERIES TO BE CYCLED, UH, DAILY FOR THAT ENERGY TO MOVE IN AND OUT DAILY.

UM, ELECTRIFICATION OF LONG HAUL TRUCKING IS ANOTHER ALMOST EQUAL, EQUAL PORTION, UM, GROWTH OF AI.

SO THIS IS JUST LIKE DATA COMPUTE FOR RUNNING AND TRAINING MODELS ALSO COMING FOR US.

UM, AIR CONDITIONER USE, WHICH OF COURSE IS PROPORTIONAL TO SUMMER TEMPERATURES, UM, INCREASES THE PEAK LOAD ON ON GRID, WHICH DRIVES UP THE NEED FOR THAT 60 GIGAWATT NUMBER TO BE, TO BE HIGHER AND, AND SO ON.

SO I DON'T DON'T NEED TO GO THROUGH EVERYTHING HERE, JUST SETTING THE TABLE FOR WHY, UM, WHY IT MATTERS TO HAVE, UM, A, A GOOD SYSTEM FOR GETTING SOLAR AND BATTERIES ON THE GRID HERE IN AUSTIN FOR US TO DO, DO OUR PART.

IF YOU COULD GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE.

SO THERE ARE SEVEN PARTS TO THE RESOLUTION AND IT'S QUITE A LOT TO GO THROUGH RIGHT NOW.

SO I THINK WHAT I'M GOING TO DO IS GO AND GO SLIDE BY SLIDE HERE AND JUST TOUCH ON A COUPLE OF THE REALLY KEY ONES AND MAYBE SLIDE PAST SOME OF THE ONES THAT ARE, UM, MORE IN THE, MORE IN THE DETAILS.

UNLESS SOMEONE THROWS UP A HAND AND SAYS, HEY, TALK ABOUT THIS ONE MORE, THEN WE'LL THEN WE'LL SLOW DOWN.

COULD YOU, NEXT SLIDE.

OKAY.

SO, UM, SO ITEM ONE, STREAMLINING ADMINISTRATION IS THE CO-HEAD.

SO RECOMMENDING ELIMINATING THE SOLAR EDUCATION COURSE AND, AND QUIZ, WHICH ARE PRESENTLY REQUIRED TO, UH, ACHIEVE THE $2,500, UH, REBATE OFF OFFERS.

AND THIS IS NOT A DELETE, THIS IS A DELETE AND REPLACE.

SO REPLACE IT WITH A ONE PAGE INFORMATION DENSE FLYER THAT CAN BE REVIEWED AND ACCESS QUICKLY WHEN NEEDED.

FOR, FOR REFERENCE, I MADE THIS FLYER.

I AM NOT A FLYER MAKER, SO IT IS LIKE, IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, THIS IS NOT WHAT, UM, YOU WOULD NECESSARILY WANT TO DO, BUT I CONDENSED THE GOOD INFORMATION FROM THE, THE SLIDE OF WHICH THERE IS, THERE DEFINITELY IS SOME, UM, I THINK IT'S MORE USEFUL THOUGH AS REFERENCE, UH, THAN IT IS TO BE LEARNED AND THEN, AND THEN FED BACK IN A QUIZ AND THEN FORGOTTEN.

I THINK THIS IS A WAY TO MAKE IT MORE REFERENCEABLE TO THE PEOPLE THAT THAT NEED IT.

NEXT SLIDE.

UM, SO NO ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS ON THE INSTALLATION OR PARTS USED, UM, IN THE SOLAR INSTALL TO RECEIVE THE REBATE, INCLUDING SIZING OF THE ARRAY.

SO THIS IS JUST SAYING THAT YOU DO NOT NEED TO, UM, DO NOT NEED TO HAVE A, A SIZING LIMIT ON 110% OF THE ANNUAL USAGE OF THE, UH, ARRAY.

SO THIS ALLOWS PEOPLE TO PREDICT THEIR FEATURE LOAD INCREASING.

SO PLAN FOR AN EV OR TWO EVS OR A HEAT PUMP, UM, AND NOT MAKE IT BASED ON THEIR PRESENT ANNUAL ANNUAL USAGE.

NEXT.

SO THERE IS A 10 YEAR WARRANTY PRESENTLY REQUIRED, UH, FOR THE CONTRACTORS WHO PARTICIPATE IN THE, IN, IN THE PROGRAM TO BE ABLE TO, UH, TO PARTICIPATE.

UM, BUT THIS PROVISION IN AS MUCH AS I UNDERSTAND IT IS VAGUE AND WE WOULD JUST LIKE TO SEE MORE CONCRETE DEFINITION FOR WHAT THAT WARRANTY SHOULD, SHOULD ENTAIL.

WE DON'T WANNA LEAVE CUSTOMERS WITH A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY, WANT LIKE A CRISP UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT A WARRANTY UH, MEANS.

UM, NEXT SLIDE.

UM,

[00:15:01]

THIS IS ESSENTIALLY SAYING, UM, IT WOULD BE USEFUL TO HAVE BENCHMARKS FOR, UM, UH, FOR, FOR SOLAR QUOTES, ESSENTIALLY.

UM, TWO IN NEXT, NEXT SECTION HERE IS CONSUMER PROTECTION.

SO THERE'S A REQUIREMENT FOR THE ENTIRE ARRAY TO BE 75% TOTAL SOLAR RESOURCE FRACTION, WHICH IS A, IT'S AN ALL IN METRIC OF HOW MUCH SUN IS LANDING ON THAT PARTICULAR PART OF THE ROOF THE WHOLE YEAR.

ALL THINGS CONSIDERED SHADE ANGLES AND SO ON.

UM, AND, BUT THE MINIMUM ARRAY SIZE IS THREE KILOWATTS.

SO THE RECOMMENDED CHANGE HERE IS, IS REQUIRE THREE 75% TSRF FOR, UM, THE FIRST THREE KILOWATTS AND THEN NO REQUIREMENT BEYOND THAT.

IT FIXES THE PROBLEM IN THE EXAMPLE, WHICH IS YOU CAN HAVE A VERY SMALL ARRAY THAT IS NOT CAPITAL EFFICIENT, CAN GET APPROVED, AND THEN A, A MUCH LARGER ARRAY, WHICH WOULD BE MORE CAPITAL EFFICIENT.

UM, THAT MAYBE JUST BARELY MISSES THIS PARTICULAR TARGET THAT IS, IS DENIED AND IT JUST DOESN'T, DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

UM, THE, THE IDEA, UH, IS CERTAINLY SENSIBLE.

WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE PUTTING PANELS IN, IN THE SHADE.

UM, BUT WE THINK THAT IT IS.

UM, YEAH, I THINK THERE'S, THERE'S ANOTHER PIECE IN HERE THAT IS WRITTEN IN THE, UM, UM, THE ACTUAL RESOLUTION, WHICH IS THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO BE PRESENTED WITH THE TSRF OF THEIR, UH, OF THEIR QUOTE AND, AND WITH THE UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THAT MEANS FOR THEIR EXPECTED PRODUCTION AND REVENUES IMPLIED BY THAT TSRF.

THAT'S RIGHT.

OKAY.

NEXT SLIDE, DAVID.

UM, THIS IS, UH, YEAH, THIS ONE WILL SAY THIS IS A FOOTNOTE ABOUT INFORMING PEOPLE THAT THEY COULD SAVE MONEY IN OTHER WAYS, UM, WHILE, WHILE IT'S CONVENIENT TO DO SO.

OKAY.

UH, SECTION THREE STANDARDS FOR NEW INVERTERS.

SO I THINK THERE IS A, A VERY WELL-MEANING AND, AND CORRECT CONCERN THAT IF YOU OVERBUILD SOLAR, UM, YOU END UP WITH A SIMILAR PROBLEM IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE AS, AS IF YOU HAD UNDERPRODUCTION, WHICH IS IF YOU HAVE OVERPRODUCTION, IT CAN MAKE THE GRID UNSTABLE.

PEOPLE HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS FOR QUITE A LONG TIME.

THERE ARE STANDARDS THAT ALL, UM, INVERTERS THE MEET NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE BY EXTENSION OF THE UL STANDARD REQUIRED THEREIN MUST MEET.

THIS IS THE NAME OF THE STANDARD.

IT IS.

UM, SO THIS IS ALREADY REQUIRED.

THIS IS A ADDITION TO THE REQUIREMENT TO, UM, TO REQUIRE THAT THE, UM, THAT THE INVERTERS BE SET TO A PARTICULAR MODE THAT AUTO PROTECTS THE GRID IN THE CASE OF OVERPRODUCTION.

SO IT WA SO WHAT THIS MEANS IS THAT THE, UH, SOLAR INVERTERS WILL WATCH THE GRID FREQUENCY AND THEY'LL FIND THAT AS IT CHANGE IF IT CHANGES, UM, BY INCREASING, WHICH IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HAVE OVERPRODUCTION, THEY WILL SELF, EACH INVERTER WILL SELF LIMIT, RAMP ITSELF DOWN SO THAT THEY SELF CURTAIL AND AVOID THE PROBLEM OF OVERPRODUCTION OF SOLAR.

SO THIS IS JUST SLIGHTLY UNDEFINED, UM, AND, AND COULD BE WELL-DEFINED.

YES.

AND, AND THIS INVERTER IS THE REQUIRED TO ENABLE SOLAR AND BATTERY CUSTOMERS TO DISCONNECT FROM THE GRID AND STILL HAVE TO GENERATION STILL BE ABLE TO USE THEIR RESOURCES BEHIND THE GRID, WHICH IS NOT POSSIBLE WITH OLDER INVERTERS THAT DON'T MEET THE STANDARD.

SO THIS IS LIKE THE ULTIMATE CUSTOMER PROTECTION MEASURE RIGHT HERE IS YOU PAID FOR A BIG HONK IN SYSTEM AND YOU'RE STILL SITTING IN THE DARK.

THIS IS THE WAY TO AVOID THAT CONSEQUENCE.

YEAH, THERE'S ANOTHER, UH, L LENS ON IT, WHICH IS THAT LIKE LOTS OF GOOD RULES WERE MADE BY IEEE, UL AND OTHER BODIES, BUT THE ENFORCEMENT OF THOSE IS NOT UNIVERSAL.

SO OFTENTIMES AT THE STATEWIDE LEVEL, YOU'LL HAVE LIKE CALIFORNIA AND HAWAII BOTH MAKE RULES THAT SAY LIKE, YOU MUST SET YOUR INVERTERS UP THIS WAY.

THERE'S NO SUCH RULE IN TEXAS.

SO WE CAN LOCALLY REQUIRE IT.

WE'RE JUST BEING CONSISTENT WITH OTHER RULES THAT ARE SET UP THAT MAKE SENSE FOR THE SAME REASON.

ALRIGHT, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

UM, SO SECTION FOUR IS ASYNCHRONOUS INSPECTIONS.

SO RIGHT NOW INSPECTIONS ARE IN PERSON SYNCHRONOUS WITH THE MASTER ELECTRICIAN ON FILE PRESENT IN THE, UM, AT, AT THE INSPECTION.

UM, THIS CAN BE DONE ASYNCHRONOUSLY WITH ONLINE SUBMISSION PROCESS.

UM, AND SO YOU'RE ASKING FOR THAT TO BE IMPLEMENTED, UH, IMPLEMENTED HERE.

UH, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

WHICH, WHICH SHOULD BE A WAY TO SAVE BOTH AUSTIN ENERGY AND INSTALLERS MONEY, BY THE WAY.

YEAH, THIS SHOULD BE AN, AN EFFICIENTLY AN EFFICIENCY BENEFIT ACROSS, ACROSS THE BOARD.

WE'LL BE ABLE TO GO THROUGH MORE INSPECTIONS PER UNIT TIME.

SOLAR INSTALLERS WILL NOT HAVE TO GO TO AS, WILL NOT HAVE TO BE THERE FOR THEM 'CAUSE THEY'RE ASYNCHRONOUS.

UM, SO SCHEDULING JUST BETWEEN THREE PARTIES BECOMES

[00:20:01]

UM, WE ALSO ADDED A LITTLE BIT OF OF COLOR, UM, IN THE RESOLUTION ABOUT, UM, WHAT SHOULD BE REQUIRED IN THE INSPECTION AND HOW THAT PROCESS SHOULD, SHOULD LOOK.

SO WE'RE ASKING FOR SOME COMMON SENSE STUFF LIKE RETURNED IN TIMELY FASHION.

UM, IT IS OKAY TO DO SOME IN, IN-PERSON INSPECTIONS TO MAINTAIN THE EFFICACY OF THE ONLINE SYSTEM.

UM, YOU HAVE TO DEMONSTRATE THAT THE SYSTEM ACTUALLY WORKS, YOU KNOW, AS PART OF THE ONLINE, UM, INSPECTION PROCESS, UH, AND SO ON.

SO WE JUST GAVE A LITTLE BIT OF BASIC DEFINITION THERE.

NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

OKAY, SO THIS IS, UM, THE NFPA 70 NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE IS SORT OF THE, THE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE BIBLE OF ELECTRICIANS ESSENTIALLY THIS IS, IS IS NATIONALLY RECOGNIZED AS THE WAY THAT ELECTRICAL, UM, INSTALLATIONS HAVE TO GO.

IT IS, IT IS NOT LAW, BUT USING, BUT CITIES AND STATES ADOPTING IT IN TEXAS IS.

UM, AND SO IT IS COMPREHENSIVE.

IT TAKES CARE OF SOLAR, IT TAKES CARE OF BATTERIES, IT DOES NOT MISS THINGS.

UM, AND SO THERE ARE A NUMBER OF RULES THAT WHERE AUSTIN ENERGY AND THEIR REQUIREMENTS FOR SOLAR INSTALLATION GO BEYOND WHAT IS REQUIRED IN, UM, NFPA 70.

AND SO THIS IS JUST SIMPLIFYING THE SYSTEM, SAYING THAT LIKE, IF YOU DO NORMAL ELECTRICAL WORK MEETING THIS UNIVERSALLY AGREED UPON STANDARD, YOU ARE GOOD TO GO.

NO ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS BEYOND NFPA 70.

UH, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

ANOTHER ONE IS, UM, NO REQUIREMENT FOR STAMPED ENGINEERING DRAWINGS ON BATTERIES.

UM, SO THERE'S MANY, MANY, MANY PLACES THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY WHERE BATTERIES GO ON HOUSES WITHOUT THE NEED FOR A STAMPED ENGINEERING DRAWING REVIEW, WHICH IS QUITE COSTLY AND BUREAUCRATIC.

UM, SO THIS IS KIND OF AS, AS PLUG AND PLAY AS SOLAR PANELS ARE.

THERE'S NO REASON FOR IT TO BE ANY, ANY DIFFERENT.

UH, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

UM, SORRY IT WAS A LITTLE WHILE AGO SINCE I LAST REVIEWED THIS.

OKAY, SO THIS IS NOT ASKING FOR, THIS IS EXPLICITLY NOT ALLOWING THINGS TO BE TESTED, WHICH ARE ALREADY TESTED BY THE REQUIRED, UM, STANDARD.

SO IF AN INVERTER MEETS UL, UM, 1741 IS THE NUMBER THAT'S NOT SHOWN ON THE PAGE ACTUALLY, BUT LET'S SAY THAT INVERTER MEETS UL 1741, WHICH IS REQUIRED, UM, NO ONSITE TESTING SHOULD BE REQUIRED.

THAT IS ALREADY TESTED BY THAT.

SO THIS IS JUST DON'T DO DOUBLE TESTING 'CAUSE THERE'S, THERE'S NO REASON TO.

IT'S ALREADY BEEN TESTED WITH RESPECT TO WHETHER THE SYSTEM ACTUALLY WORKS.

WE PROPOSE AN, UM, AN AUTOMATED TESTING AND COMMISSIONING SYSTEM AND SO THAT THE PROOF THAT THAT TEST IS CONDUCTED, THE PROOF IS SPIT OUT THAT EVERYTHING WORKS THE WAY IT'S SUPPOSED TO AND THAT PROOF IN A STANDARD FORMAT WOULD BE FED IN AS PART OF THE INSPECTION REPORT.

YEAH, I TOUCHED ON THAT VERY BRIEFLY.

TOTALLY FLEW OVER IT, UM, A COUPLE SLIDES AGO, BUT YEAH, HAVING PROOF OF A WORKING SYSTEM IN AN AUTOMATED FASHION WOULD BE A GREAT IDEA.

OKAY, NEXT SLIDE.

I PROMISE WE'RE, WE'RE GETTING CLOSE.

UM, SO AT, AT THE MOMENT, THERE'S NO WAY TO MONETIZE A BAT FOR A CUSTOMER TO MONETIZE A PAYBACK OF A, OF A BATTERY THEY PUT ON THEIR HOME.

UM, YOU NEED BATTERIES AS MUCH AS YOU NEED SOLAR, UM, ON ACCOUNT OF THE NON DISPATCHABILITY OF SOLAR PANELS WE'RE ALL FAMILIAR WITH.

SO BATTERIES ARE NEEDED.

THIS IS, THIS IS KNOWN AND, AND WELL RECOGNIZED.

UM, SO WE'RE, WE'RE ASKING FOR AUSTIN ENERGY TO SUBMIT AN RFP FOR VPP OR SIMILAR PROGRAM.

IT'S OUR UNDERSTANDING THAT AUSTIN ENERGY HAS SUCH A A, A PROGRAM IN DEVELOPMENT AND, UM, I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU'RE GONNA BE PRESENTING THAT TO THE EUC NEXT MONTH OR THIS MONTH.

WE'D LOVE TO HAVE THAT ON OUR SCHEDULE AS WELL, PLEASE FOR THE RMC AGENDA.

I BELIEVE IT IS ON THE AGENDA.

WONDERFUL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

OKAY, NEXT SLIDE.

SIMILAR SECONDARY POINT IS, UM, THAT THE REBATE, WHICH IS PRESENTLY 2,500 SOLAR ONLY SHOULD BE CHANGED TO BE SOLAR BATTERY.

UM, A SLIGHTLY SMALLER REBATE FOR EITHER ONE INDEPENDENTLY OR A SLIGHTLY LARGER REBATE FOR BOTH OF THEM, UM, COMBINED JUST RECOGNIZING THE FACT THAT JUST PUTTING MORE MONEY INTO SOLAR IS ONLY REALLY PAYING FOR HALF THE SOLUTION.

NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

UM, THERE'S ANOTHER, YOU KNOW, JUST HAVING LIKE DOLLARS PER INSTALL IS, IS ONE, UH, STRATEGY AND THAT DOES HELP WITH THE FIXED COSTS, BUT ENCOURAGING, UM, BA CUSTOMERS TO SIGN UP FOR

[00:25:01]

THAT'S THE WHOLE IDEA IS YOU, YOU SIGN UP, YOU GIVE TESLA OR SOMEONE ACCESS TO YOUR BATTERY, THEY GIVE YOU SOME MONEY.

THAT IS THE BASIC IDEA OF A VPP.

IF WE CAN HAVE, UM, AUSTIN ENERGY GIVE, UH, THROUGH AUSTIN ENERGY GET A REBATE PER KILOWATT HOUR TO CUSTOMERS TO COMMIT IN ADVANCE, WE CAN HAVE A, A GREAT NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE READY TO, UM, PARTICIPATE IN A, IN A VPP ONE, ONE DOES GET PUT TOGETHER.

GO AHEAD.

COMMISSIONER SCHWARTZ, I SEE YOUR HAND UP.

THANK YOU.

YEAH, I WAS JUST WONDERING, UM, THIS LOOKS GREAT.

UH, I WAS WONDERING IF THE AUTHORS CONSIDERED WHETHER THE ENTIRE INCENTIVE FROM THE UTILITY SHOULD BE TIED TO SIGNING UP FOR THE VPP OR, UH, CUSTOMER ENERGY, UM, SOLUTION HERE.

IT, IT, UH, I GUESS IT SEEM, IT SEEMED LIKE FROM THE LANGUAGE, IT'S ONLY THE INCENTIVE FOR THIS IS ONLY, UM, APPLIED TO THE EXTRA 25 PER KILOWATT HOUR IF THEY SIGN UP, BUT THEY GET THE 2000 ANYWAY.

AND I GUESS THAT EXTRA 25 PER KILOWATT HOUR WOULD BE LIKE, WHAT, ONE FIFTH OF THE TOTAL INCENTIVE.

SO WHY, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE, WHY WOULD A UTILITY PAY FOR A SOLAR BACKUP THAT'S NOT BEING USED IN THE PROGRAM? IT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

I THINK IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A MATTER OF, UM, NOT EVERYONE IS GOING TO WANT TO COMMIT TO A VPP NOW BECAUSE THE ECONOMICS MAY NOT BE THERE OR THEY MAY NOT PERSONALLY THINK IT'S USEFUL.

BUT HAVING MORE BATTERIES THAT COULD RESPOND TO LIKE A FUTURE CHANGE IN POLICY THAT ALLOWS FOR LIKE TIME OF USE FOR, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT WOULD ALLOW EVERYONE TO BENEFIT AND, AND THE GRID GETS THE SAME BENEFIT, YOU SORT OF TURN THE SYSTEM INTO LIKE EVERYONE IS KIND OF A, A BIT IN A VPP INFORMALLY, EVEN IF, EVEN IF THEY'RE NOT.

SO YOU'RE RIGHT, IT WOULD BE BETTER IF EVERYONE COULD SIGN UP FOR VPP BUT MAY NOT BE PRACTICAL.

BUT ON, ON THE OTHER HAND, NOT ALL.

THAT'S, THAT'S AN IMPORTANT ISSUE.

THANK YOU FOR RAISING IT, COMMISSIONER.

BUT NOT EVERY VIRTUAL POWER PLAN IS CREATED EQUAL AND I THINK THAT IS A QUESTION THAT WE SHOULD REVISIT AFTER WE SEE THE PROPOSED DETAILS OF THE CITY'S VIRTUAL POWER PLANT.

THERE ARE SOME VPPS THAT CUS THAT, THAT HAVE SO LITTLE COMPENSATION AND CONTROL THAT CUSTOMERS WOULD BE CRAZY TO PARTICIPATE IN.

I AM OPTIMISTIC THAT THIS CITY WILL NOT PROPOSE SUCH SUCH A PLAN, BUT I THINK IT'S MORE, IT'S VALUABLE TO HOLD THE, HOW DO YOU INCENTIVIZE AND COMPENSATE FOR PARTICIPATION IN THE CITY OF, IN THE AUSTIN ELECTRIC VIRTUAL POWER PLANT AFTER WE SEE WHAT THAT IS AND WHAT THE APPROPRIATE INCENTIVE SHOULD BE TO HELP MAKE THAT A REALITY.

THANK YOU.

THANKS.

CONTINUE ON PLEASE.

OKAY.

FINAL SLIDE.

UM, IS ASKING FOR A SURVEY AND OR JUST MAYBE THIS INFORMATION IS JUST KNOWN, BUT CHECK THE PREVALENCE OF OF PRE I TRIPLE E 15 47, 20 18 COMPLIANT INVERTERS.

SO ONES THAT COULD NOT BE CONFIGURED TO WORK IN THE WAY WE WERE DISCUSSING EARLIER WHERE THEY SELF-PROTECT FOR OVERPROTECTION AND AUSTIN ENERGY SHOULD JUST ASSESS IF THEY THINK THAT IS ENOUGH INVERTERS TO TO MATTER, UM, AND THEN CAN ACT ACCORDINGLY BASED ON THAT IS JUST MORE IMPORTANT.

DEVELOP A STRATEGY AS TO WHETHER SOME OF THESE SHOULD BE REPLACED AND WHY AND HOW.

YEAH, IF, AND THEN WHY AND HOW.

YEAH.

UM, AND THAT'S THE CLOSE.

ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS? VICE CHAIR, ROBS? I HAVE A QUICK, UH, BIT OF INFORMATION, UH, JUST TO CONSIDER.

UH, THE CITY'S PERMIT DATABASE, UH, SHOWS THAT THERE ARE ABOUT 1,250 BATTERY PERMITS WITH DISCREET ADDRESSES IN THE GREATER AUSTIN AREA, AND APPROXIMATELY 99% OF THEM ARE SOLAR WITH BATTERY, BUT NOT BATTERY ALONE.

JUST A BIT OF INFORMATION THAT MIGHT BE INTERESTING TO CONSIDER.

ALRIGHT, SO YOU BRING THE QUESTION TO ME.

WHY DOES THE CITY PERMIT BATTERIES? UM, WELL, I'M NOT AN INSPECTOR, BUT IT'S AN ELECTRICAL PERMIT, UH, AND I PRESUME THAT THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE INSTALLED SAFELY.

I I THINK I CAN, I CAN ADD SOME COLOR HERE.

SO NOT ALL CITIES PERMIT REQUIRE PERMITS FOR BATTERIES.

UM, ONE REASON IS THAT THERE IS, THERE IS FIRE CODE INTERSECTION, SO TO BE COMPLIANT WITH

[00:30:01]

OKAY, FINE.

IT'S LIKE THREE FEET FROM DOORS AND WINDOWS, THREE FEET FROM GAS, GAS METERS.

OKAY.

ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? QUESTIONS? COMMENTS? IT'S AWFUL.

QUIET ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ROOM OVER THERE.

COMMISSIONER SCHWARTZ RAISED A HAND.

THANK YOU.

YEAH.

UH, THIS IS A LITTLE OFF TOPIC.

I WAS JUST WONDERING IF THE AUTHOR OR AUTHORS CONSIDERED, UM, UH, WHAT'S THE BEST WAY TO SAY IT? WHETHER THE, UH, VALUE OF SOLAR TARIFFS SHOULD BE, UH, CHANGED TO A REFUNDABLE TARIFF? I KNOW RIGHT NOW A LOT OF SYSTEMS ARE UNDERSIZED VERSUS WHAT THEY MIGHT BE, UH, JUST BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, AE DOESN'T PAY OUT REFUNDABLE TARIFFS.

SO YOU REALLY HAVE TO, UM, I MEAN, UNLESS YOU'RE ABOUT TO BUY AN EV AND YOU KIND OF ARE TECHNICAL ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT AND ARE THINKING ABOUT THAT, YOU WOULD REALLY BE UNDERSIZING YOUR SYSTEM TODAY IF YOU BUY AN EV IN THE FUTURE.

UM, AND I GUESS IF THE, YOU KNOW, IF THE TARIFF CHANGED SUCH THAT AE WOULD ACTUALLY PAY OUT ON A PER DOLLAR BASIS FOR THE SOLAR BEING PRODUCED IN A SIMILAR WAY, I THINK TO, UH, THE NEW PROGRAM, UM, UH, SOLAR STANDARD OFFER, THEN THAT THAT WOULDN'T BE THE CASE IN THE FUTURE.

I WAS WONDERING WHETHER, UH, Y'ALL, UH, LOOKED AT THAT.

YES, THANKS FOR BRINGING THAT UP.

CERTAINLY DID, UM, HAVE A LOT, THE AUTHOR HAS A LOT OF OPINIONS ABOUT VALUE OF SOLAR.

WE DECIDED TO KEEP IT JUST SEPARATE FOR SCOPE, SCOPE REASONS TO KEEP TIME OF USE AND VALUE OF SOLAR AND SOME OTHER THINGS KIND OF OFF THE TABLE HERE.

UM, TRY TO GET WHAT I'LL, I'LL CALL EASY WINDS, BUT MAYBE NOT SO EASY COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN TO, TO GOOD QUESTION TO, BUT TO, TO, TO ADDRESS OR RESTATE COMMISSIONER SERITA'S CONCLUSION ANOTHER WAY WE THOUGHT THAT IT BEST TO JUST KEEP THIS FOCUSED ON HOW DO YOU GET SOLAR AND BATTERIES PERMITTED AND ON THE ROOF AND PROCESSED AND LEAVE COMPENSATION AS ITS OWN ISSUE THAT WE HAVE ALREADY AS A COMMISSION, BEEN THROUGH VALUE OF SOLAR AND OTHER STUFF A WHILE.

AND, AND IT IS TOO SOON TO, TO RATTLE THAT CAGE.

THE NEXT EVOLUTION IN THE COMPENSATION CONVERSATION WILL BE THE VALUE OF THE, THE, THE VIRTUAL POWER PLANT.

AND, AND WE SHOULD LET THAT GO ON A SEPARATE PATH, BUT TRY TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR MORE STUFF TO GET ON WALLS AND ROOFS TO PARTICIPATE IN ALL OF THESE PROGRAMS. SO THAT'S OUR FOCUS HERE.

THANK YOU.

COOL.

THANK YOU.

UH, ONE OTHER QUESTION IF I MAY.

UM, I WAS WONDERING IF WE, IN TERMS OF THE ONLINE INSPECTIONS, UM, I KNOW THAT THERE IS SOME HISTORY WITH THAT DURING COVID.

UH, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS THE BEST FORM FOR IT, BUT DOES ANYONE HAVE MORE INFO ABOUT WHAT, HOW POORLY IT WENT, WHAT WENT WRONG OR WHAT OTHER CITIES DO THAT MAKE IT WORK DIFFERENTLY, WORK BETTER? UM, I JUST, UH, WANTED A LITTLE MORE CONTEXT.

I CANNOT SPEAK TO THE HISTORY OF ONLINE INSPECTIONS DURING COVID.

I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE, WITH THE RISE OF, I DON'T WANNA USE CHEESY AI, BUT, BUT THERE ARE SOME VERY SOPHISTICATED AI INFORMED SYSTEMS THAT ARE DOING THINGS LIKE A VARIETY OF ELECTRICAL INSPECTIONS AND VALIDATIONS AND, AND EQUIPMENT PROOFS THAT I EXPECT EXIST TODAY AND CAN BE APPLIED TO THIS KIND OF VERY DEFINED TRACTABLE SET OF, IS IT CONNECTED PROPERLY? IS IT IN THE RIGHT PLACE? DO I THINK, I THINK YOU CAN, YOU CAN FIND AI SYSTEMS THAT WILL DO THIS TODAY THAT DIDN'T EXIST FIVE YEARS AGO DURING COVID.

I'LL ACTUALLY, I'LL DEVIL'S ADVOCATE, UH, UM, AGAINST MY OWN POINT FOR THIS, UH, AND AUSTIN, YOU SHOULD SPEAK TO THEIR, TO THEIR EXPERIENCE, SO I CERTAINLY WON'T DO THAT.

BUT, UM, IF YOU, IF YOU IMAGINE WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IN AN ASYNCHRONOUS INSPECTION VERSUS A SYNCHRONOUS INSPECTION.

WELL, THE DIFFERENCE IS YOU'VE GOT A PERSON THERE THAT CAN DO STUFF.

SO WHAT CAN A CAMERA NOT DO THAT A PERSON CAN'T? SO THEY CAN, THEY CAN TOUCH THINGS, THEY CAN TUG ON WIRES, THEY CAN DO, DO, THEY CAN DO KIND OF PHYSICAL THINGS.

AND I THINK THAT THAT ENDS UP BEING ABOUT, ABOUT IT.

SO I THINK A A A REALLY WELL STRUCTURED AND SPECIFIED, UM, ONLINE INSPECTION, I, YOU CAN GET VERY MUCH ALL THE WAY, ALL THE WAY THERE.

UM, IT'S JUST A MATTER OF IMPLEMENTATION AND IT'S DONE SUCCESSFULLY, LOT, LOTS OF PLACES.

UM,

[00:35:01]

RIGHT.

AND ONE THING I FAILED TO MENTION WAS THAT WE ALSO HAVE A PROVISION IN, THEREFORE IF YOU FAIL AT A HIGH RATE AS A CONTRACTOR, YOU LOSE YOUR ASYNCHRONOUS INSPECTION PRIVILEGES.

YEAH, IT SEEMS LIKE A GREAT IDEA.

, THERE ARE A VARIETY OF ADDITIONAL CUSTOMER SERVICE, CUSTOMER PROTECTION DETAILS THAT COULD BE INCORPORATED INTO THIS THAT WE HAVE NOT ADDRESSED HERE.

AND THAT, THAT IF AUSTIN ENERGY CHOOSES TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS, OR IF THE CITY COUNCIL CHOOSES TO ADOPT IT, WE WOULD BE HAPPY TO OFFER MORE CUSTOMER SERVICE DETAILS.

WE HIT THE HIGH POINTS IN THIS ON ISSUES LIKE WARRANTIES AND, AND SOME OF THE OTHER MEASURES LIKE THE TSRF, THE TOTAL SOLAR CAP.

WE DON'T JUST SAY DON'T DO THIS.

WE ASK THAT THE INFORMATION BE PROVIDED SO THAT THE CUSTOMER HAS THE ABILITY TO DISCERN WHETHER SHE WANTS TO SPEND HER MONEY ON SOMETHING THAT ISN'T GONNA GIVE HER TOTAL INSULATION.

SO THIS ISN'T JUST A, YOU KNOW, AUTOMATE INSPECTIONS AND THROW THE CUSTOMERS TO THE WOLVES.

WE'RE TRYING TO BE BALANCED AND COME UP WITH OTHER STUFF TO MAKE SURE CUSTOMERS ARE WELL PROTECTED IN THIS EFFORT.

THANK YOU.

ARE, ARE INSPECTIONS A CURRENT BOTTLENECK OR ARE THEY SEEN AS A CURRENT BOTTLENECK THIS YEAR? UH, IS THERE A BACKLOG FOR THAT? I GUESS SOMEONE ON CITY STAFF ON, ON AE STAFF CAN TELL US THAT.

CAN YOU DEFINE BOTTLENECK THOUGH? I, I GUESS LIKE, UH, IT JUST MEANT LIKE, DOES IT, IS IT, IS THERE A BACKLOG FOR SETTING UP THESE APPOINTMENTS? DOES IT SLOW DOWN THE INSTALL, YOU KNOW, MORE THAN A WEEK OR TWO? TYPICALLY RIGHT NOW, I KNOW THERE'S A HUGE, UH, QUEUE FOR DISCONNECTS.

UM, THAT'S LIKE SIX MONTHS OR SOMETHING, BUT I, I DIDN'T KNOW IF IT, I DIDN'T KNOW ONE WAY OR ANOTHER WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS IF SLOWING DOWN, UH, SOLAR INSTALLS.

UH, YEAH, AUSTIN I SPEAK TO, I DON'T THINK THERE'RE REALLY, IT IS A BIG TIME BOTTLE.

LIKE I'M SEEING SOME, SOME SHAKING HEADS NOT FOR FINAL INSPECTIONS.

THERE, THERE IS SOME BACKLOG AS MENTIONED FOR DISCONNECTS IN CERTAIN AREAS FOR CAN, CAN YOU, TIM, LIKE WE NEED TO REMIND TIM THAT WHEN HE SPEAKS FOR THE FIRST TIME, YEAH, HE HAS TO GO TO THE PODIUM.

, I CAN HEAR PRETTY WELL.

OKAY.

THANKS FOR THE REMINDER.

TIM HARVEY, CUSTOMER RENEWABLE SOLUTIONS, UH, MANAGER.

CURRENTLY, THERE IS NOT A TIME DELAY FOR FINAL INSPECTIONS FOR SOLAR.

HOWEVER, AS MENTIONED IN SOME AREAS OF TOWN, THERE ARE TIME DELAYS FOR A DISCONNECT, WHICH A DISCONNECT IS TYPICALLY, TYPICALLY PERFORMED WHEN THE CURRENT SERVICE ISN'T UP TO STANDARD.

SO THE SERVICE HAS TO BE REBUILT.

HOW MANY INTERIM INSPECTIONS ARE THERE? I MEAN, IF ONCE SOMEBODY STARTS AN INSTALL, IS THERE ONLY THE FINAL INSPECTION OR ARE THERE INTERMEDIATE INSPECTIONS AS WELL? THEY, THEY CAN CALL FOR LIKE A PRE-CONSTRUCTION INSPECTION WHERE WE'LL GO OUT THERE ON SITE AND GO OVER THEIR PLANS AND, YOU KNOW, HELP GUIDE THEM TO BE SUCCESSFUL AT FINAL INSPECTION.

SOME INSPECTIONS REQUIRE ROUGH INSPECTIONS WHERE MAYBE THEY'RE BEARING CONDUIT OR SOMETHING.

SO WE NEED TO GO, GO OUT AND INSPECT AND LOOK AT THAT BEFORE THEY BURY THE CONDUIT OR PUT IT BEHIND A WALL OR SOMETHING IF IT'S NEW CONSTRUCTION.

UM, SO THERE ARE DIFFERENT TYPES OF IN INSPECTIONS, BUT A TYPICAL RESIDENTIAL SYSTEM REQUIRES ONE INSPECTION.

THANK YOU.

VICE CHAIR ROBBINS.

UH, JUST ON A PROCEDURAL, UH, NOTE, UH, CHAIR STONE, I WOULD MAKE THE SUGGESTION THAT, UH, QUESTIONS TO THE SPONSOR, UH, COMMISSIONERS, UH, SA SARUS BE MORE OR LESS COMPLETED, UH, PRIOR TO QUESTIONS OF STAFF.

I'M NOT IN ANY WAY TRYING TO CUT OFF STAFF FROM MAKING COMMENTS.

I THINK PROCEDURALLY IT WOULD BE BETTER IF, UH, THE QUESTIONS, UH, UH, WENT TO THE COMMISSION FIRST AND THEN A SEPARATE SET MIGHT GO TO STAFF.

WE'RE ALL FRIENDS HERE.

I'M, I'M NOT TOO CONCERNED ABOUT IT.

UM, BUT I DID ACTUALLY HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE, UH, SPONSORS ON THIS ONE.

IF YOU GOT EVERYTHING YOU WANTED IN THIS RESOLUTION, WHAT WOULD BE THE ADDITIONAL COST TO RATE PAYERS, TAXPAYERS, WHATEVER LANGUAGE YOU WOULD LIKE TO USE ON THIS ONE? DO WE HAVE A NUMBER FOR THAT AT ALL? WE DO NOT.

WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO FEEDBACK FROM CITY, FROM, FROM AE STAFF ON THIS.

UH,

[00:40:01]

THAT IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT QUESTION.

AND NO, WE, WE DID NOT DO THAT.

I THINK.

YEAH, THAT'S CORRECT.

WE DIDN'T DO THAT.

I THINK THAT THE SOLAR AND BATTERY REBATE CALCULUS WOULD NEED TO BE PUT IN CONTEXT OF, OF PAYBACK, RIGHT? SO THESE ARE ALL INVESTMENTS.

UM, SO I THINK THAT CAN MAKE IT TRICKY TO ASK THE SIMPLE QUESTION, HOW MUCH DOES IT COST? 'CAUSE IT COSTS SOME AT TIMES ZERO AND IT PAYS BACK OVER TIME, RIGHT? AND I UNDERSTAND THAT, I MEAN, A BIG PART OF WHAT THIS RESOLUTION PACKET IS ABOUT, IT'S WISH CASTING, YOU KNOW, WE'RE SAYING THIS IS THE DIRECTION WE NEED TO GO AND WE'RE GONNA WORK WITH AUSTIN ENERGY TO TRY TO GET TOWARDS THE BEST POSSIBLE OUTCOME THAT WE CAN FIND.

SO THAT I DO UNDERSTAND, I WAS JUST WONDERING, JUST IN GENERAL, IF WE HAD A BALLPARK NUMBER.

UM, THE OTHER THING THAT I ALSO WANT TO CONSIDER IS, UH, THE FINAL ITEM I WANT HERE WAS TALKING ABOUT A DEADLINE.

AND ON THERE YOU SAID 15 MONTHS FROM APPROVAL, KEEP IN MIND THAT YOU HAVE FISCAL YEARS THAT THE CITY WOULD HAVE TO CROSS.

UM, SO FOR AUSTIN ENERGY, FOR EXAMPLE, IF THEY HAD TO ADD STAFF OR INCLUDE IN THE BUDGET ADDITIONAL REBATE DOLLARS, YOU NEED TO DO THAT COINCIDING WITH THE FISCAL YEAR.

SO 15 MONTHS MIGHT NOT BE THE BEST WAY TO PHRASE IT.

IT MIGHT BE WITHIN X TIME OF THE COMING FISCAL YEAR OR THE NEXT FISCAL YEAR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

AND THAT'S SOMETHING YOU GUYS CAN WORK OUT IS, YOU KNOW, A MANDATORY LANGUAGE.

EXCELLENT POINT, MR. CHAIRMAN.

THANK YOU.

UH, IF FOR EXAMPLE, THERE WERE 350 BATTERY REBATES A YEAR AT $2,000 ON INSTALLATION, THAT WOULD BE, UH, CLOSE TO A MILLION DOLLARS.

MM-HMM .

ON, ON THE OTHER HAND, WHEN YOU CONSIDER WHAT THE CITY IS PAYING IN CONGESTION COSTS BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH TRANSMISSION, THAT MILLION DOLLARS COULD TURN INTO VALUABLE COST REDUCTIONS FOR THE CITY ENERGY PURCHASES AS WHOLE FAIRLY QUICKLY.

AB ABSOLUTELY, AND I'M, I'M NOT TRYING TO SAY OTHERWISE, I'M JUST SAYING IN TERMS OF INVESTMENT, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT.

I JUST KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN IT COMES TIME FOR AUSTIN ENERGY TO SUBMIT ITS ANNUAL BUDGET INFORMATION TO THE CITY MANAGER, THAT WILL INCLUDE A HARD NUMBER FOR WHAT REBATES MIGHT BE OR WHAT ADDITIONAL INSPECTION COSTS MIGHT BE, OR REDUCED INSPECTION COSTS MIGHT BE.

UM, SO THAT'S WHY I JUST KIND OF WANNA MAKE SURE THAT AS YOU FRAME, YOU KNOW, THESE THINGS THAT YOU JUST KIND OF KEEP THAT IN MIND.

I MEAN, I, I TEND TO THINK YOU MIGHT SEE ALMOST A PUSH BETWEEN THE NUMBER OF INSPECTORS THAT YOU HAVE TO PUT IN CARS TO GO LOOK AT EVERY ARRAY VERSUS THE REBATE DIFFERENTIALS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

BUT IT'S JUST SOMETHING I JUST WANTED TO RAISE A HAND ON.

UH, ESPECIALLY SOMEBODY WHO LIVES IN A CONDO WHO WILL NEVER HAVE SOLAR OR BATTERY.

AND SO I'M GONNA BE PAYING FOR THIS.

I'D JUST LIKE KIND OF LIKE TO KNOW AND TO CORRECT MYSELF.

I'D BE MORE LIKE $700,000 IN INVESTMENT, BUT, OKAY.

COMMISSIONER DAVIS, UH, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK THE AUTHORS, UH, THE CO-SPONSORS OF THIS, UM, VERY INFORMATIVE AND I, I CAN TELL THE, YOU KNOW, I KNOW THE INTENT IS TO ENABLE RAPID EXPANSION OF LOCAL SOLAR AND BATTERY, WHICH WE KNOW WE ALL, WE DESPERATELY NEED.

UM, IT ALSO, UH, UPON FIRST READING OF THE RESOLUTION TO ME FELT LIKE, UM, A LIKE WHOLESALE DISCARDING OF, UH, REGULATIONS AND IN AN EFFORT TO GET RID OF FRICTION, RIGHT? AND I HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING NOW THAN I DID BEFORE THIS MEETING.

SO THANK YOU FOR THAT.

UM, I STILL AM LOOKING FORWARD, IF NOT TONIGHT AT OUR NEXT MEETING TO HEAR, UM, FROM AUSTIN ENERGY ABOUT, UM, THESE, UH, INSPECTIONS, WHAT, AND THE ADDITIONAL REGULATIONS OR, OR REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE ON TOP OF THE VARIOUS CODES.

AND IF THERE ARE, UM, REASONS AND RATIONALE FOR, FOR WHY THEY'VE CHOSEN TO, UM, YOU KNOW, TO HAVE THOSE, UH, I, I REALLY WANNA UNDERSTAND THAT, UM, PRIOR TO, YOU KNOW, ENDORSING, YOU KNOW, A COMPLETE KIND OF MOVE AWAY FROM THAT.

SO, UM, AND, AND ALSO ON, UM, YOU KNOW, TO CHAIR STONE'S POINT ABOUT WHAT DOES THIS DO FISCALLY, UH, IF WE'RE ADDING REBATES TO BATTERIES, I THINK, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, EXPANSION OF LOCAL SOLAR AND AND BATTERY IS SOMETHING THAT'S NEEDED.

AND WE ALSO NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE, THE FISCAL IMP IMPLICATIONS

[00:45:01]

MY 2 CENTS.

ANY OTHER THOUGHTS OR COMMENTS FROM COMMISSION MEMBERS? OKAY, THERE BEING NONE.

UH, MY UNDERSTANDING IS OUR INTENTION IS TO BRING THIS BACK UP AGAIN AT OUR MEETING ON FEBRUARY 18TH AND THAT WE'RE NOT TAKING ANY ACTION HERE TONIGHT.

SO WE'LL LOOK FORWARD TO AUSTIN ENERGY, UH, GIVING, UH, A LITTLE BIT MORE INFORMATION WHEN THEY COME BACK IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS TO TALK ABOUT THINGS FURTHER.

UM, GIVEN THAT,

[FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]

IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THE COMMISSION WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS? I SEE VICE CHAIR ROBBINS, UM, SEVERAL.

FIRST I'D LIKE TO HAVE A BRIEF ITEM ON, UH, COMMISSION TERMS, UH, HOW LONG WE SERVE.

UH, SECOND, UM, AND THIS WILL BE MUCH BROADER, I AM AGAIN, WANTING TO PURSUE HEAT PUMP WATER HEATERS.

I AM PRO SO PROFOUNDLY FRUSTRATED THAT I AM NOT GETTING INFORMATION A THAT I CAN UNDERSTAND ABOUT WHY WE ARE NOT, WHY AUSTIN IS NOT MOVING, UH, TO ADOPT THIS.

AND I WOULD LIKE AT A MEETING IN THE NEAR FUTURE TO HEAR FROM THE GREEN BUILDING PROGRAM TO HEAR FROM CITY LEGAL AND TO HEAR FROM, UH, THE PERSON OR PEOPLE NOW IN CHARGE OF ENERGY REBATES TO FIND OUT WHAT WE'RE DOING IN THIS DIRECTION.

UM, ON ANOTHER SUBJECT, I WOULD LIKE SOME TIME IN MAYBE APRIL TO HAVE A REVIEW OF THE ENERGY STAR LOAN AND REBATE PROGRAM.

UH, IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT'S DOING VERY WELL EITHER IN PARTICIPATION, UH, OR IN ITS ECONOMICS, AND I'D LIKE TO LEARN MORE ABOUT IT.

AND FINALLY, UH, AND I'M NOT SURE WHEN A GOOD TIME TO BRING THIS UP.

I'VE BEEN TOLD THAT, UM, I'VE BEEN TOLD BY A PERSON AT THE, UH, ON THE ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION THAT, UH, SOLAR, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS TO COUNCIL THAT FORMALLY WENT BEFORE THIS COMMISSION WERE NO LONGER GOING TO BE PRESENTED.

AND IF THAT'S THE CASE, I THINK THERE'S A NEED FOR DISCUSSION.

UM, IF, IF THAT'S THE CASE, ANYBODY OVER ON THAT SIDE OF THE ROOM KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS? NO.

NO? OKAY.

MAYBE ASK AROUND TO SEE AND IF SOMETHING, SO, SO I'LL SECOND IF IT IS A THING.

SO AUSTIN ENERGY IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO BRING RCAS TO BOTH COMMISSIONS.

I KNOW.

CHANGE IN WHAT RICHARD FORGETS THAT HE'S GOTTA GO UP TO THE THING.

, I JUST, GOOD EVENING.