[00:00:05]
[CALL MEETING TO ORDER]
OF THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION.AND I'M ASKING IF, FIRST OFF, IF THE MEMBERS WILL IDENTIFY THEMSELVES, UH, FOR ATTENDANCE PURPOSES.
UM, UH, MS. GOODWIN, WOULD YOU CALL THE ROLE TESTING? TESTING, COMMISSIONER STONE.
COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN HERE.
UH, I, UM, AM HOPING THAT A COUPLE OTHER COMMISSIONERS WILL FIND THEIR WAY HERE.
UH, BUT FIRST, UM, LET ME, UM,
UH, HE'S SITTING TO MY RIGHT AND I'D LIKE, IF IT'S OKAY WITH YOU, IF YOU COULD BRIEFLY TELL US WHO YOU ARE AND HOW YOU CAME TO BE HERE.
UM, HONORED TO HAVE BEEN APPOINTED.
AND I WORK CURRENTLY IN THE UTILITY SCALE RENEWABLE ENERGY INDUSTRY AS AN ENVIRONMENTAL AND PERMITTING MANAGER.
UM, SO I'M PASSIONATE ABOUT RENEWABLE ENERGY, UH, CLEAN ENERGY SOURCES AND EQUITABLE ACCESS TO THOSE FOR ALL.
UM, ALSO, YOU KNOW, AS I'M AN ENVIRONMENTAL GUY, SO I'M PASSIONATE ABOUT ECOLOGICAL ISSUES AND, UH, COMMUNITY BENEFITS DRIVEN FROM THAT.
AND I'M JUST EXCITED TO COLLABORATE AND CONTRIBUTE TO THE CITY AND OUR GOALS HERE.
UM, AND AS FAR AS HOW I CAME ABOUT THIS, I LOOKED ONLINE FOR ANY OPEN POSITIONS AND SAW ONE APPLIED AND, AND HERE I AM.
AND, UH, GOOD TO MEET EVERYONE.
UM, NEXT, UH, WE'RE, UH, THERE ARE SEVERAL, UM, AUSTIN ENERGY EXECUTIVES IN ATTENDANCE TONIGHT THAT DON'T ALWAYS COME HERE.
AND I'M JUST WONDERING IF, UH, THEY COULD, UH, BRIEFLY, UH, SAY HELLO, UH, IDENTIFY THEMSELVES.
HELLO? UH, BOB CONN, GENERAL MANAGER.
WE PROBABLY NEED A MICROPHONE.
UH, BOB CONN, GENERAL MANAGER.
I'M A DEPUTY GENERAL MANAGER OVER REGULATORY COMMUNICATIONS, COMPLIANCE, AND LEGAL SERVICES.
I'M KEN SNES, VICE PRESIDENT OF POWER PRODUCTION.
WELL, UH, IT'S GREAT TO HAVE YOU.
[PUBLIC COMMUNICATION: GENERAL]
ORDER OF BUSINESS IS PUBLIC COMMUNICATIONS.WE HAVE ONE SPEAKER, RICHARD RIPPLE.
AND, UH, MS. GOODWIN WILL TIME YOU.
UM, I JUST WANTED TO INTRODUCE MYSELF.
UM, I, MAYBE SOME HAVE SEEN ME A BIT AROUND SOME OF THE MEETINGS.
WE'RE ONE OF THE LARGEST, UH, DISTRICT ENERGY.
WE ALSO DO DISTRIBUTED ENERGY.
UM, WE'RE A PART OF, UH, KKR, WHICH IS A VERY LARGE FINANCING GROUP.
UM, SO WE ARE ABLE TO CAP, UH, DEPLOY CAPITAL FOR INVESTMENT IN DISTRICT ENERGY AND DISTRIBUTED ENERGY, UH, VERY AFFORDABLE CAPITAL.
UM, WE SEE OURSELF AS PARTNER OF COMMUNITIES.
UM, THE WAY WE, UH, DEVELOP OUR SYSTEMS, THE WAY WE PARTNER WITH THE CITIES IS BY LOOKING AT LONG-TERM PARTNERSHIPS.
UM, THAT IS DONE THROUGH, UH, FINANCE, BUT IT'S DONE ALSO BY WORKING CLOSELY WITH THE COMMUNITIES, UH, WORKING CLOSELY WITH THESE EXISTING EMPLOYEES.
[00:05:01]
AND SO, YEAH, I JUST WANT TO INTRODUCE MYSELF AGAIN WITH CORDIA ENERGY, IF YOU HAVE ANY, UH, INTEREST.OBVIOUSLY, WE, WE ARE VERY INTERESTED OF COLLABORATING OR, OR SETTING UP A PARTNERSHIP EVENTUALLY WITH AUSTIN ENERGY, UH, BOTH FOR THE, UM, DISTRICT COOLING SYSTEM, BUT ALSO FOR THE DISTRIBUTED ENERGY SYSTEM, UM, INVESTING.
UH, I, I KNOW WITH SOME OF THE FUNDS COMING FROM FEDERAL, UM, SOME OF IT HAS BEEN PUT ON HOLD.
UM, BUT WE ARE OPEN TO HAVING OPEN DIALOGUE, UM, WITH EVERYBODY ON, ON THE ORGANIZATION.
[1. Approve the minutes of the Resource Management Commission Meeting on February 18, 2025.]
ORDER OF BUSINESS IS APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES.UM, DOES ANYONE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE MINUTES? I MOVE APPROVAL.
IS THERE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND.
UH, AND, AND IF YOU'RE AGAINST, SAY NAY.
IF YOU'RE ABSTAINING, SAY ABSTAIN.
[2. Discussion of the sub-quorum meeting with AE staff regarding information request and future plans for District Cooling.]
UH, WILL BE, UH, DISCUSSION OF THE SUB QUORUM MEETING WITH AUSTIN ENERGY STAFF REGARDING, UH, INFORMATION REQUEST AND FUTURE PLANS FOR DISTRICT COOLING.UH, AND, UH, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT, UH, COMMISSIONER DAVIS, UH, SPONSORED, UH, AND TAKE IT AWAY.
UM, THIS WAS JUST PUT ON THIS AGENDA TONIGHT TO GIVE THE, UM, OTHER COMMISSIONERS, UH, JUST TO DEBRIEF AN UPDATE OF A MEETING THAT WAS HELD ON MARCH 11TH, UM, WITH A SUB QUORUM OF THE RMC MEMBERSHIP REGARDING, UM, AUSTIN ENERGY'S DISTRICT COOLING AND ITS EFFORTS TO EXPLORE POTENTIAL, UH, SALE, UM, FOLLOWING SOME DISCUSSION AT LAST, UH, RMC MEETING, UH, WE, UH, HAD REQUESTED KIND OF A BRIEFING TO GET SOME INFORMATION.
VICE CHAIR ROBBINS, UH, HAD VOICED THAT, UH, HE HAD BEEN SEEKING SOME INFORMATION FOR QUITE SOME TIME.
UM, SO THE, UH, MEMBERS OF THE AUSTIN ENERGY DISTRICT COOLING TEAM WHO, UM, HAVE INTRODUCED THEMSELVES TONIGHT, OR WHO REPRESENTED, UM, AUSTIN ENERGY AT THAT SUBOR MEETING, UM, MS. COOPER, UM, MR. SNIPES.
AND, UM, UH, ALSO MARTIN, MS. MARTIN, LISA MARTIN LISA, WHO WAS NOW VIRTUALLY IN ATTENDANCE.
AND, UM, UH, I, I ATTENDED ALONG WITH COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS COMMISSIONER GARY, AND, UH, CHAIR STONE.
AND I WILL SAY THAT, UM, WE, WE DID NOT GET, UM, A LOT OF ADDITIONAL INFORMATION BESIDES WHAT WAS INITIALLY DISCUSSED.
UM, THE, THEY DID ASSURE US THAT THEY ARE NOT AT THIS TIME, UM, SEEKING A SALE, UM, BUT RATHER THAT THEY WANTED TO EXPLORE HOW TO EXPAND, UM, TO GROW THE SYSTEM.
AND IN ORDER TO DO THAT, UM, WOULD NEED TO FIGURE OUT THE FINANCES BECAUSE, UM, CURRENTLY IT'S NOT OPERATING AT, UM, A SUSTAINABLE FINANCIAL LEVEL.
SO THAT SAID, I WILL TURN IT BACK OVER TO VICE CHAIR ROBBINS OR ANYONE ELSE WHO WAS AT THAT MEETING.
WHO WANTS TO, UM, SAY MORE, UM, COMM, JUST MAKE A NOTE THAT COMMISSIONER STONE HAS JOINED US VIRTUALLY, I THINK, FROM WASHINGTON.
UM, I, I GUESS I HAVE, UH, TWO OR THREE COMMENTS.
UM, THE FIRST, UH, IS THAT, UM, THE INFORMATION, UH, IS ACTUALLY HAVE FOUR COMMENTS.
UH, THE INFORMATION IS STILL NOT FORTHCOMING.
SECOND, UH, I WAS TOLD THAT IF I WANTED SOME OF THIS INFORMATION, I WOULD HAVE TO MAKE A FORMAL PUBLIC INFORMATION
[00:10:01]
REQUEST, WHICH WOULD THEN BE SUBMITTED TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR AN OPINION, BECAUSE AUSTIN ENERGY FEELS THAT IT'S A GRAY AREA.UH, AS FAR AS ASKING FOR SPECIFIC CUSTOMER DATA ON A DISTRICT CHILLING STATION, IT'S UNAMBIGUOUS.
IF I WERE TO ASK FOR DATA, UH, UH, ON A, UM, PRIVATE COMPANY, THAT'S NOT ALLOWED.
BUT A DISTRICT CHILLING SYSTEM THAT IS REALLY UNREGULATED IS DIFFERENT KIND OF ANIMAL.
AND SO AUSTIN ENERGY SAID, WELL, WE WILL HAVE TO SUBMIT AN OPINION.
AND I GUESS THE THING THAT BOTHERS ME IF IS IF THAT IS HOW AUSTIN ENERGY FELT, THEN THEY SHOULD HAVE SUBMITTED THE OPINION IN OCTOBER WHEN I SUBMITTED THE PUBLIC INFORMATION REQUEST.
UH, AS IT STANDS, IF I SUBMIT ANOTHER, UH, PUBLIC INFORMATION REQUEST, IT COULD BE THREE PLUS MONTHS BEFORE THERE'S A DETERMINATION, AND THEN MORE TIME TO GET THE INFORMATION.
IF THE RULING IS PARTIALLY OR TOTALLY IN MY FAVOR, UH, IT TO SAY THAT THIS IS BAD FORM WOULD BE AN UNDERSTATEMENT.
THE THIRD THING, UH, IS THAT I'VE, IT WOULD BE ALSO BE AN UNDERSTATEMENT, UH, TO SAY THAT, UM, I'VE, UH, THAT, UH, I'VE, UM, CRITICIZED THE UTILITY A FEW TIMES.
UH, SOME OF MY FRIENDS WOULD ACCUSE ME OF MAKING A CAREER OUT OF IT, AND AUSTIN ENERGY STAFF COULD, UH, UH, COMMENT ON, UH, HOW MANY VEXING CONVERSATIONS THEY HAVE HAD WITH ME OVER THE YEARS.
BUT I HOPE THAT THE ONE THING THAT THEY WILL NEVER SAY IS THAT I WASTED THEIR TIME.
UH, I IF, IF THAT WAS, IF THAT MEETING WAS GONNA BE THEIR POSITION, THEY SHOULD HAVE SENT OUT A HALF PAGE MEMO.
AND I, I MEAN, I MAY DISAGREE WITH YOU ALL A LOT, BUT I DON'T TRY TO WASTE YOUR TIME.
AND I DID NOT WANT YOU ALL TO TAKE AN HOUR OUT OF YOUR TIME, UH, UH, FOR THAT MEETING.
THAT REALLY DID NOT NEED TO HAPPEN.
UM, AND THE LAST THING THAT I'LL SAY, UH, I'M, I'M AMBIVALENT ABOUT HOW FAR I'M GONNA GO WITH THIS SECOND PUBLIC INFORMATION REQUEST, BUT I AM STRONGLY CONSIDERING A RESOLUTION AT THE NEXT MEETING RECOMMENDING THAT THE CITY COUNCIL, UH, HAVE AN ASSIGNED THIS TO THE AUDIT DEPARTMENT BECAUSE THEY CAN GET ACCESS TO DATA THAT I CANNOT, WITHOUT AN ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OPINION.
UH, THEY, AS FAR AS I KNOW, HAVE UNRESTRICTED ACCESS.
AND, UM, UM, FINALLY, UH, THERE FIFTH POINT, SOMEBODY, UH, AT THE MEETING WONDERED IF, UH, MAKING THESE KINDS OF PUBLIC STATEMENTS WAS NOT, UH, INVOKING FEAR IN THE WORKFORCE AT THE DISTRICT ENERGY COOLING GROUP.
AND I WILL COMMENT THAT THAT IS NOT MY MOTIVATION AT ALL, NEVER HAS BEEN MY, UH, GOAL HERE IS TRANSPARENCY.
UM, UH, COMMISSIONER DAVIS, UH, UH, ASKED ME CANDIDLY, SO YOU GET THE DATA, PAUL, IS, IS THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION GOING TO FIX THIS ON OUR OWN? AND I SAID, NO, THAT'S NOT THE POINT.
THE POINT IS TO GET THIS PUBLIC SO THAT THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION AND THE ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION AND THE STAKEHOLDERS AND THE CITY COUNCIL CAN ALL JOIN TOGETHER TO FIX IT.
SO, I HOPE THIS ESTABLISHES MY MOTIVATIONS FOR THIS.
UM, AND WITH THAT, UM, IF THERE ARE ANY
[00:15:01]
OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS, I, I SEE THAT, UH, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN HAS WON, OR SEVERAL.UM, THE, FOR CONTEXT, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO WERE NOT IN THE MEETING, WE COVERED TWO DIFFERENT TOPICS.
ONE OF THEM WAS AUSTIN ENERGY'S, UM, STATUS AND INTENTIONS WITH RESPECT TO THE DISTRICT HEATING AND COOLING PLANT.
AND THE OTHER WAS THE TOPIC OF COMMISSIONER ROBBIN'S REQUEST FOR DATA ABOUT THE DISTRICT HEATING AND COOLING SYSTEM.
AS YOU CAN TELL, HE HAS NOT BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN GETTING THOSE DATA.
UM, IT, IT IS MY VIEW THAT, UM, WE SHOULD LET AUSTIN ENERGY DO ITS ANALYSIS, BUT WE SHOULD ASK THEM TO GET A MOVE ON.
I DID NOT HEAR A, AND, AND WITH RESPECT TO MY, MY FRIEND COMMISSIONER ROBBINS, HE APPEARS TO HAVE MUCH MORE TIME IN ENJOYMENT OF FLAILING AROUND IN OTHER PEOPLE'S DATA THAN I DO.
AND HE IS WELCOME TO IT, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT THE, THE CITY OR THIS COMMISSION OR THE ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION SHOULD BE WAITING UNTIL DATA ARE COUGHED UP, NOR AM I WILLING TO VOLUNTEER TO HELP HIM DO THE MATH.
BUT I HAVE NOT HEARD ANYTHING FROM THE CITY YET ABOUT THE STATUS AND TIMELINE OF THEIR EFFORTS TO FIGURE OUT THE FINANCIAL CONDITION AND PROSPECTS OF THE DISTRICT COOLING AND HEATING SYSTEM.
AND I, UM, WOULD APPRECIATE HEARING THEIR ANTICIPATED TIMELINE AND, AND FOR, FOR ANALYSIS AND DECISION MAKING IN THE NEAR FUTURE, PARTICULARLY BECAUSE WE HAVE AT LEAST ONE COMPANY THAT'S INTERESTED IN BUYING THE SYSTEM.
AND I KNOW THAT YOU ALL, I HOPE, WILL HAVE AN EXCELLENT SET OF FINANCIAL ANALYSES AND OPTIONS LAID OUT FOR WHAT YOU COULD DO IF YOU KEEP IT.
BUT, SO I'D LIKE TO BE HEARING PRETTY SOON FROM YOU ABOUT THE, THE TIMELINE FOR THE ANALYSIS AND THE TIMELINE FOR THE DECISIONS THAT YOU HAVE AHEAD OF YOU ON THE DISTRICT HEATING AND COOLING SYSTEM.
LIKE, WHEN ARE YOU GONNA DECIDE WHETHER TO, TO RETAIN IT AND BUILD IT OUT YOURSELVES OR, OR PUT SOME CONDITIONS ON THAT FORWARD PROSPECT AND INVITE FOLKS LIKE CORDIA AND, AND THEIR COMPETITION.
I, I, I GUESS THERE'S PROBABLY SOME, I DON'T KNOW, TO, TO TAKE THIS ASSET AND DO OTHER STUFF WITH IT IF YOU PUT CONDITIONS ON IT, LIKE CAN'T CLOSE IT FOR X NUMBER OF YEARS AND NEED TO KEEP THE STAFF.
SO, SO I HOPE THAT YOU WILL COME BACK TO US IN THE NEAR FUTURE WITH SOME INFORMATION OF THAT NATURE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? COMMISSIONER DAVIS, DO YOU WANT TO CLOSE, UH, JUST BY THANKING MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS FOR THEIR, UM, TIME AND ENERGY ON THIS? AND TO SAY THAT I, I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER SILVER SILVERSTEIN, THAT, UM, I WOULD ALSO, UM, HOPE AND EXPECT THAT MORE INFORMATION REGARDING TIMELINE, UH, FOR ANALYSES, UM, UM, BE, BE FORTHCOMING.
[3. Presentation by Texas Gas Service regarding a quarterly update of the Central Texas Energy Efficiency Program by Christy Bell, Energy Efficiency Program Supervisor. ]
ON TO THE NEXT ITEM, UH, PRESENTATION BY TEXAS GAS SERVICE REGARDING A QUARTERLY UPDATE OF THE CENTRAL TEXAS ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM BY CHRISTIE BELL, ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM SUPERVISOR.UM, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME THIS EVENING.
I'M THE SUPERVISOR OF, UH, THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM FOR TEXAS GAS SERVICE.
UM, TONIGHT I'LL BE PROVIDING AN OVERVIEW OF THE INITIATIVES, UM, THAT OUR PROGRAM UNDERTOOK DURING THE FOURTH QUARTER OF 2024.
UH, THE TEXAS GAS SERVICE ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM HAD SOME SIGNIFICANT UPDATES FOR THE FOURTH QUARTER.
UM, ON THIS SLIDE, THE MOST NOTABLE CHANGE WAS THAT THE PROGRAM WAS SUNSET ON DECEMBER 31ST, 2024.
SO, AS PART OF THIS EFFORT, UH, WE WORKED TO WITHDRAW THE CONSERVATION ADJUSTMENT CLAUSE, TARIFFS, AND REMOVED, UH, THE PROGRAM SURCHARGE FROM CUSTOMER'S BILLS.
UH, WE ALSO MADE CHANGES TO THE WEBSITE, UM, TO LET OUR CUSTOMERS KNOW ABOUT THESE CHANGES.
AND AS THE PROGRAM PERMITS 180 DAYS FOR, UH, THE SUBMISSION OF REBATE APPLICATIONS, OUR TEAM WILL, UH, CONTINUE PROCESSING,
[00:20:02]
UH, RESIDENTIAL REBATE REQUESTS FOR WORK COMPLETED IN 2024 UP UNTIL JUNE 29TH, 2025.UM, AFTER THIS DATE, UH, TEXAS GAS WILL UNDERTAKE EFFORTS TO DETERMINE A BALANCE ADJUSTMENT TO RETURN ANY UNUSED, UH, PROGRAM FUNDS BACK TO CUSTOMERS.
UH, YES, COULD I'M, I'M SORRY, I'M, I'M MISSING SOMETHING.
UH, THE CAC MAY BE A TECHNICAL VEHICLE TO FUND IT.
WHAT WILL THE REPLACEMENT VEHICLE BE? I'M SORRY.
WE, UM, RIGHT NOW WE DO NOT HAVE ANOTHER VEHICLE, UM, IN, IN THE PLANS FOR RIGHT NOW.
SO, UM, MY BOSS, UH, JASMINE MAY, UH, MAYBE CAN SPEAK TO THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE.
JASMINE KING BUSH, ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM MANAGER, TEXAS GAS SERVICE.
UH, WE CURRENTLY HAVE A FILING BEFORE THE RAILROAD COMMISSION OF TEXAS FOR, UH, UH, ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM.
THERE HAS NOT BEEN, UH, A DECISION MADE ON THAT FILING, SO WE DO NOT HAVE AN A RESPONSE FOR YOU AT THIS TIME.
WHEN WILL THE DECISION, UH, WHEN IS IT, WHEN IS THE FINAL DATE FOR A DECISION? DO YOU KNOW? JUNE, 2025, BARRING ANY EXTENSION.
FORGIVE ME, MS. BELL, PLEASE CONTINUE.
UM, SO WHAT WE HAVE HERE, THIS SLIDE PRESENTS A BAR CHART, UM, UH, DEPICTING THE ACTUAL PROGRAM EXPENDITURES UNTIL, UM, THROUGH THE END OF THE YEAR, AND HIGHLIGHTING HOW THESE FIGURES ALIGN WITH, UH, THE ANNUAL BUDGET.
UM, AS MENTIONED IN THE PREVIOUS SLIDE, WE WILL CONTINUE PROCESSING REBATE APPLICATIONS TO UTILIZE THE REMAINING FRONT FUNDS, UM, FROM OUR RESIDENTIAL AND NEW CONSTRUCTION PROGRAMS. AND, UM, BY THE END OF 2024, AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE SLIDE, OUR COMMERCIAL PROGRAM WAS FULLY UTILIZED.
UM, THEREFORE, WE HAVE STOPPED ACCEPTING COMMERCIAL REBATE REQUESTS AND ARE NO LONGER PERFORMING DIRECT INSTALLATION WORK.
THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM, UM, AT TEXAS GAS PARTNERS WITH CLEAR RESULT TO OFFER SEVERAL, UH, COMMERCIAL DIRECT INSTALLATION REBATES AIMED AT ENHANCING ENERGY EFFICIENCY, UM, IN THE LOCAL BUSINESS COMMUNITY.
UM, KEY OFFERINGS AND MEASURES INCLUDE, UH, SINK AERATORS, LOW FLOW SHOWER HEADS, UH, PRE-PRINT SPRAY VALVES, UH, AND WEATHER STRIPPING, WHICH REDUCE ENERGY CONSUMPTION AND LOWER OPERATIONAL COSTS.
UM, THE PHOTOS INC INCLUDED ON THIS SLIDE SHOW SOME WORK THAT WE COMPLETED IN THE FOURTH QUARTER AT A LOCAL AUTO SHOP, UM, WHERE WE INSTALLED OVERHEAD DOOR WEATHER STRIPPING, UH, TO ENHANCE, UH, THEIR ENERGY SAVINGS AND PROMOTE SUSTAINABILITY.
SO THIS SLIDE, UM, PROVIDES MORE IN DEPTH INFORMATION ABOUT THE FOURTH QUARTER ACTIVITIES FOR THE COMMERCIAL DIRECT INSTALLATION, UH, PROGRAM, UH, DETAILING VARIOUS PROJECTS, THEIR LOCATIONS, AND THE ASSOCIATED ENERGY SAVINGS IN THE FOURTH QUARTER.
UM, CLEAR RESULT, CONCENTRATED EFFORTS ON THE AUTO SHOP SHOP INDUSTRY, INSTALLING OVER 1900 FEET OF OVERHEAD DOOR WEATHER STRIPPING AT SIX AUSTIN BUSINESSES, UH, WHICH CONTRIBUTED TO OVER 17,000, THE OF EXPECTED ENERGY SAVINGS.
AS WE ALL KNOW, UH, OUTREACH CAMPAIGNS ARE ESSENTIAL IN RAISING AWARENESS ABOUT THE, UM, TEXAS GAS ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM IN THE FOURTH QUARTER, INITIATIVES INCLUDED, UH, ADVERTISEMENTS IN THE COMMUNITY IMPACT, UM, AND THE AUSTIN BOARD OF REALTORS, UH, NEWSLETTER, AS WELL AS DIGITAL ADS AND RADIO CAMPAIGNS ON KUT AND KUTX.
UM, THESE EFFORTS AIM TO ENGAGE AND INFORM THE COMMUNITY ABOUT THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY, UH, RESOURCES AVAILABLE THROUGH TEXAS GAS.
UH, THIS SLIDE SUMMARIZES THE EDUCATION AND OUTREACH EVENTS THAT OUR TEAM PARTICIPATED IN.
UH, DURING THE FOURTH QUARTER, UM, TEXAS GAS TOOK PART IN THE DIA DE LOS MUTOS CELEBRATION AT WATERLOO PARK.
UM, WE WERE ENGAGED WITH THE COMMUNITY ON TWO, UH, SUNDAYS AT THE MUELLER FARMER'S MARKET, THE COMMUNITY CONNECTIONS RESOURCE FAIR, WHICH WAS ORGANIZED BY AUSTIN ENERGY, AND WE CO-HOSTED, UM, A BOOTH WITH AUSTIN ENERGY AT THE TEXAS BOOK FESTIVAL, UH, THIS PAST NOVEMBER.
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UM, THESE EVENTS PROVIDED AN EXCELLENT PLATFORM TO CONNECT WITH LOCAL RESIDENTS AND SHARE INFORMATION ABOUT ENERGY SAVING PROGRAMS, UM, AND ENCOURAGE COMMUNITY PARTICIPATION.SO, THAT CONCLUDES, UH, MY PRESENTATION COVERING THE FOURTH QUARTER HIGHLIGHTS FOR OUR PROGRAM.
UM, I WELCOME ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU ALL MAY HAVE.
COMMISSIONERS, UH, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.
AND, UM, THANK Y'ALL FOR THIS PRESENTATION.
AT FIRST, AFTER, BEFORE YOU TOLD US ABOUT THE NEW PROGRAM PENDING AT REQUEST PENDING AT THE RAILROAD COMMISSION.
I FEAR THIS WAS THE LAST QUARTERLY CONSERVATION PROGRAM UPDATE.
UM, IN YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH THE COMPANY AND IN THE GAS INDUSTRY, HAS THE TEXAS RAILROAD COMMISSION EVER FAILED TO APPROVE A CONSERVATION PROGRAM REQUEST? JASMINE KING BUSH ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM MANAGER, TEXAS GAS SERVICE, UH, THANK YOU, CHRISTIE.
UM, THIS IS KIND OF A, A FIRST OF ITS KIND THERE.
UH, SOME YEARS BACK, UH, UH, FILING WAS PUT BEFORE THE RAILROAD COMMISSION FOR THIS ACTUAL PROGRAM, AND THE RAILROAD COMMISSION DECLINED TO MAKE A RULING, UH, AND, AND, UM, RELINQUISHED THE REGULATORY AUTHORITY AND HONORED THE REGULATORY AUTHORITY OF THE CITIES.
UH, SINCE THE PASSING OF THE LEGISLATION, HB 2263, IN 2023, UH, THE OVERSIGHT FOR THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY NATURAL GAS ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAMS WAS, UH, GIVEN TO THE RAILROAD COMMISSION.
SO THIS IS, UM, THE SECOND FILING THAT I'M AWARE OF, UM, THAT'S BEEN PLACED BEFORE THEM.
UH, I AM NOT SURE OF THE EXACT DISPOSITION OF THE OTHER NATURAL GAS UTILITY, UM, BUT I KNOW RIGHT NOW THEY HAVE PAUSED THEIR FILING.
I'M NOT SURE WHAT HAPPENED BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, BUT I KNOW RIGHT NOW THEY'VE PAUSED THE FILING THAT THEY HAD BEFORE THEM.
AND, AND WHAT IS THE, HOW SIMILAR IS THE NEW PROGRAM THAT YOU HAVE PROPOSED TO THE PROGRAM THAT YOU WERE REPORTING ON? NOW, THE FILING PUT BEFORE THEM IS VERY SIMILAR TO THE PROGRAM THAT WE HAVE IN PRACTICE.
UM, WE FOUND HISTORICALLY THAT THE PROGRAM, UM, PERFORMED WELL AND WAS WELL RECEIVED BY OUR CUSTOMERS.
UM, AND WE WANTED TO GO WITH THAT FAMILIARITY.
UM, BUT I SAY THAT, UH, WITH THE CAVEAT THAT AT ANY TIME THE RAILROAD COMMISSION COULD ASK FOR REMOVAL OR INCLUSION OF SOMETHING THAT WAS NOT A PART OF THE ORIGINAL FILING.
UM, AND, AND YOU ALL MARKET MANY OF THESE MEASURES JOINTLY WITH AUSTIN ENERGY.
IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, WE HAVE IN, IN THE PROGRAM, UM, THAT, UH, TERMINATED ON 12 31 24, WE SHARED IN THE HOME ENERGY SAVER PROGRAM WITH AUSTIN ENERGY.
AND, UM, THIS IS AN UNFAIR QUESTION FOR AUSTIN ENERGY.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE ANYONE HERE TO ANSWER THIS, IS LOSING THE TEXAS GAS SERVICE PARTNERSHIP FOR SIX MONTHS GOING TO BE PROBLEMATIC IN ANY WAY FOR THE AUSTIN ENERGY ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAMS.
SO I WOULD SAY THEIR ABSENCE WOULD BE FELT, BUT NOT, UH, NOT, UM, UH, NOT ABLE TO BE RECOVERED FROM, IS WHAT I WOULD SAY THAT IT.
AND, AND YOU'RE EAGER TO HAVE THEM BACK IF I WOULD.
WE WOULD LOVE TO HAVE THEM BACK AS PARTNERS.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? THANK YOU BOTH VERY MUCH.
UM, UM, HAVE YOU ALL ABSTAINED FROM FURTHER COMMENT? OKAY.
I HAVE ONE, UH, UH, PROBABLY FOR, UH, JASMINE, AS YOU'LL RECALL, UH, IN THE NOT TOO DISTANT PAST, I QUOTED FROM THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT, UH, THAT TEXAS GAS SERVICE SIGNED AND SHOWED THAT THE GAS COMPANY WAS NOT COMING TO
[00:30:01]
THE COMMISSION, UH, TO GET ITS COMMENTS PRIOR TO, UH, THE CONSERVATION PROGRAM BEING, UH, PRESENTED, DEVISED, UH, PURSUED.UH, AND I'M GONNA GUESS I DON'T WORK THERE, BUT I'M GONNA GUESS THAT YOU ALL PROBABLY START CRAFTING THE BUDGET AND FINALIZE IT DURING THE SUMMER.
WOULD THAT BE A FAIR GUESS? ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE FILING NO.
THAT WE PUT FORTH OR JUST WHAT WAS THE PRACTICE PREVIOUSLY? UH, WELL, THERE, THERE ARE TANTAMOUNT TO THE SAME THING.
UH, IF YOU QUIT COLLECTING IT THROUGH THE SEA, THE CONSERVATION ADJUSTMENT CLAUSE, BUT GET IT FROM ANOTHER, UH, NEW SOURCE, THEN THE QUESTION BECOMES WHEN DO YOU START CRAFTING? WHEN, WHEN WILL YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR BUDGET WILL BE? THE FILING BEFORE THE RAILROAD COMMISSION CONTAINS A BUDGET, UH, WITH PORTFOLIO SUGGESTIONS, PORTFOLIO OFFERING SUGGESTIONS, UM, AND THAT WAS PUT BEFORE, UH, PUT BEFORE THE RAILROAD COMMISSION IN AUGUST, AND THEN MODIFIED IN NOVEMBER.
I WOULD LIKE YOU TO COME TO OUR JULY MEETING AND TELL US, UH, WHAT, WHAT'S YOUR PLANNING? UNFORTUNATELY, BECAUSE IT'S A PENDING FILING, AND IF IT IS EXTENDED, AGAIN, WHILE IT'S AN ACT OF FILING BEFORE THE RAILROAD COMMISSION, WE'RE UNABLE TO SHARE THAT.
BUT IF THERE IS A RULING THAT HAS BEEN APPROVED, WE CAN SHARE THAT.
NO, THAT'S NOT WHAT THE, THE, THE, UH, FRANCHISE AGREEMENT THAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO REQUIRES THAT THE TEXAS GAS, THAT TEXAS GAS SERVICE WORKS WITH THE CITY OF AUSTIN AND RE A RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION ON AN ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM.
THE COMPANY DOES CON DOES, UH, INTEND TO CONTINUE AN EDUCATION AND OUTREACH PROGRAM, UM, THAT WOULD NOT, UM, NECESS, NECESSITATE A BUDGET APPROVAL IF THE PROGRAM THAT'S BEFORE THE FI THE BEFORE THE RAILROAD COMMISSION IS NOT APPROVED.
WE ARE OBVIOUSLY NOT THE RAILROAD COMMISSION.
CORRECT? WE ARE NOT A SOVEREIGN BOARD.
WE ARE AN ADVISORY BOARD, BUT WE DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO ADVISE.
AND IT SAID SO RIGHT THERE IN THE FRANCHISE THAT THE COMPANY SIGNED IN, UH, OCTOBER OF 2006.
I SHOWED YOU THE GREEN HIGHLIGHTED TEXT, CORRECT, YES.
IF THE PROGRAM IS OFFERING REBATES AND INCENTIVES AND A BUDGET IS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT, YES, YOU ARE CORRECT.
IF THE PROGRAM IS NOT APPROVED BY THE RAILROAD COMMISSION, THE COMPANY DOES HAVE THE OBLIGATION TO MAINTAIN WHAT IS LISTED IN THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT, WHICH WOULD BE SATISFIED THROUGH AN EDUCATION OUTREACH COMMU, UH, PROGRAM THAT DOES NOT CONTAIN REBATES AND INCENTIVES.
AND THIS WAS CONFIRMED THROUGH CONVERSATIONS WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY.
WHICH CITY ATTORNEY? THE CITY OF AUSTIN.
WHICH CITY ATTORNEY AT THE CITY OF WASHINGTON.
I WOULD HAVE TO, I WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK TO MY LEGAL TEAM AND GET THAT INFORMATION.
UH, YOU HAVE MY EMAIL ADDRESS? YES, SIR.
I'LL, I'LL, I'LL GET THE RESPONSE TO LARRY AND THEN LORI LARRY CAN GET THAT TO YOU.
SO YOU'RE, IF I'M HEARING THIS CORRECTLY, YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE CITY ATTORNEY SAYS THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PRESENT A BUDGET TO US FOR COMMENT.
SO I THINK WHAT YOU'RE INSISTING ON MAY BE A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
THE PROGRAM AS IT HAS OPERATED HISTORICALLY, WAS A PROGRAM WHERE WE DRAFTED A BUDGET AND CAME TO THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION FOR, FOR A PRESENTATION.
THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION PROVIDED INPUT ON THE PROPOSED PROGRAM.
NOW THAT THE CITY OF AUSTIN DOES NOT HAVE REGULATORY OVERSIGHT OVER THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM, THE PROCESS CHANGES A LITTLE BIT.
THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT DOES STILL REQUIRE THAT THE COMPANY WORK WITH THE CITY FOR AN ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM, BUT IT DOES NOT STATE WHAT THAT PROGRAM LOOKS LIKE.
AND IF WE DO NOT HAVE A VEHICLE FOR COLLECTION OF RATE AS APPROVED BY THE RAILROAD COMMISSION, THAT WILL LOOK DIFFERENT.
UH, YOU KEEP REPEATING THIS OVER AND OVER AND I KEEP NOT UNDERSTANDING IT OVER AND OVER.
IT SOUNDS VERY MUCH LIKE YOU'RE SAYING WE DON'T HAVE TO PRESENT THE COMMISSION WITH, UH, A PROPOSED BUDGET.
[00:35:01]
UM, I, IT SOUNDS TO ME AS THOUGH THE DISTINCTION IS THEY DON'T HAVE TO PRESENT A PROPOSED BUDGET.THEY CAN TELL US WHAT THE RAILROAD COMMISSION APPROVES, IF ANY, WITH RESPECT TO THE PROGRAM AND THE BUDGET, BECAUSE WE NO LONGER HAVE THE ABILITY TO APPROVE IT.
AND I THINK YOU'RE ALSO LOOKING AT THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT AND THE TARIFF, THE TARIFF FILE FOR THE PROGRAM TALKS ABOUT WHAT THE PROGRAM CONSISTS OF, NOT AT A GRANULAR LEVEL, BUT IT GIVES THE COMMERCIAL, THE ADMINISTRATIVE CAP, THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
BUT THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT IS THE, IS THE, UM, DOCUMENT THAT SAYS THAT WE MUST WORK WITH THE CITY TO OFFER AN ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAM.
AND THE TARIFF HAS BEEN PULLED FOR THE PROGRAM THAT SUNSETTED ON DECEMBER 31ST, AND A NEW TARIFF WAS FILED IN, UH, IN SUPPORT OF THE, UH, PROGRAM THAT WAS FILED WITH THE RAILROAD COMMISSION.
IF YOU'RE ALREADY FILING IT BEFORE WE SEE IT, THEN IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE YOU'RE WORKING WITH US.
WE PROBABLY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO CLARIFY THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND WHAT I'M SAYING.
AND I'M HAPPY TO PROVIDE, AND LARRY HAS SOME OF THE RESOURCES ALREADY, BUT I'M HAPPY TO PROVIDE THOSE TO YOU SO THAT YOU CAN SEE, I THINK MAYBE IN, IN BLACK AND WHITE.
WHAT, WHAT I'M SAYING, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.
COMMISSIONER, I, UM, I WOULD LIKE TO REQUEST THAT MS. GOODWIN, CAN WE PUT THIS ON THE AGENDA FOR THE JULY MEETING AND HAVE YOU ALL COME BACK AND TELL US WHETHER THE RAILROAD COMMISSION HAS ACTED ABSOLUTELY.
AND, AND WHAT IT IS THEY DID, AND GIVE US A, GIVE US AT THE JULY MEETING WHETHER OR NOT THE RAILROAD COMMISSION HAS ACTED.
IT SEEMS THAT IT WOULD BE A GREAT IDEA FOR YOU TO GIVE US A BRIEF BRIEFING ON WHAT THE PROGRAM DETAILS ARE THAT YOU REQUESTED AND, AND, OR THAT GOT APPROVED SO THAT, THAT WE CAN ALL CATCH UP TOGETHER.
VICE CHAIR, UH, VICE CHAIR COMMISSIONER STONE.
I, I JUST HAD A QUESTION, AND THAT IS, ARE YOU ABLE TO TELL US, GENERALLY SPEAKING, THE PROPOSAL THAT YOU PUT FORTH THE RAILROAD COMMISSION, IS IT SUBSTANTIALLY SIMILAR TO PRIOR PROGRAMS THAT YOU HAVE HAD WITH THE CITY OF AUSTIN? IT IS SIMILAR, YES, SIR.
COMMISSIONERS, QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS, UM, IN THE SPIRIT OF MOVING THIS MEETING ALONG, I'M GONNA DROP THIS PRETTY SOON, BUT THIS SOUNDS LIKE YOU REALLY DON'T WANT TO TELL US WHAT, YOU REALLY DON'T WANT TO GIVE US AN OPPORTUNITY TO COMMENT AHEAD OF WHAT YOU'RE PRESENTING TO THE RAILROAD COMMISSION.
WE HAVE APPRECIATED OUR PARTNERSHIP WITH THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION TO THE EXTENT OF TAKING PREVIOUS SUGGESTIONS AND INCORPORATING THEM INTO THE PROGRAM.
BUT AS I STATED, I AM HAPPY TO SHARE WITH YOU, UH, THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT, THE LEGISLATION GRANTING REGULATORY AUTHORITY, AND THE TARIFF THAT WAS PULLED, WHICH IS NOT IN, NOT ACTIVE ANYMORE.
SO I'M HAPPY TO SHARE THAT INFORMATION WITH YOU.
I'M DEFINITELY HAPPY TO COME BACK IN JULY AND SHARE WHERE WE ARE AT THAT TIME.
I DID SAY THAT I WASN'T GONNA BELABOR THIS BECAUSE WE NEEDED TO MOVE ON, AND I WILL KEEP MY WORD, BUT I AM IN NO WAY SATISFIED.
AND I, UM, AND I WILL WAIT TO HEAR FROM YOU.
UH, IF THERE ARE NO FURTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS, UM, MERELY AS A, AS A POINT OF INFORMATION, I WILL WANT TO MAKE EVERYONE AWARE THAT A COMPANY THAT IS PREPARING A RATE CASE AT THE PUBLIC UTILITY OR THE RAILROAD COMMISSION, AN INDIVIDUAL INDIVIDUAL PROGRAM MANAGER, HAS NO CONTROL OVER THAT SCHEDULE.
AND THE, THESE DECISIONS WERE MADE MANY MONTHS AGO.
WHILE THIS PROGRAM, THE, THE CURRENT PROGRAM WAS IN EFFECT, AND I DOUBT THAT THE SCHEDULE, THAT THE GAS TGS WAS OPERATING UNDER PERMITTED CONSULTATION, OR THAT THE MS. KING BUSH'S MANAGERS CARED ABOUT WHAT THIS COMMISSION THOUGHT OF THEIR PROPOSED PROGRAM.
I, THAT IS PURELY A SURMISE, BUT I WOULD AGREE WITH THE SECOND PART OF WHAT YOU SAID.
[00:40:01]
I DID SAY I WOULD MOVE ON.[4. Discussion on natural gas utilities in Austin. ]
DISCUSSION OF NATURAL GAS UTILITIES IN AUSTIN.UH, VERY LITTLE OF THIS CONCERNS CONSERVATION.
IF THE CONSERVATION STAFF WISH TO LEAVE, THEY WON'T MISS MUCH ON THAT ISSUE.
UM, UH, SO, UH, COMMISSION, UM, OUR, WE, WE NOW HAVE THE ABILITY TO COMMENT ON NATURAL GAS UTILITIES ON, UH, NOT JUST CONSERVATION, UM, THEORETICALLY, BUT WITH, UM, POLICY RELATED TO RATE MAKING AND TO REGULATORY, UH, SECOND SLIDE, PLEASE.
SO I'M NOT GONNA MISQUOTE ANYTHING.
UH, THE CITY COUNCIL ON OCTOBER 13TH, 2025, UH, EXPANDED OUR PURVIEW TO ADVISE COUNCIL REGARDING RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE NATURAL GAS UTILITY RATEMAKING FRANCHISE AGREEMENT PRIORITIES AND OPERATIONAL POLICIES FOR WHICH THE CITY HAS REGULATORY AUTHORITY THERE.
AND I THOUGHT THAT SOME OF YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN GROUNDED IN WHAT THIS, WHAT SOME OF THESE ISSUES ARE ABOUT.
AND SO, I, UH, PUT TOGETHER WHAT I HOPE IS A BRIEF SUMMARY REGARDING, UH, RATES.
NOW, THIS DOES NOT DEAL WITH ENERGY CONSERVATION.
IT DOES NOT DEAL WITH, UM, UH, FUEL.
IT DOES NOT DEAL WITH SEVERAL OTHER THINGS.
AND I HOPE TO HAVE A BRIEFING, A SHORTER BRIEFING ON THOSE, A SHORT BRIEFING ON THOSE AS WELL.
BUT I THOUGHT I WOULD START WITH THIS SUMMARY OF RATES AND RATE ISSUES.
THIS IS THE PERCENTAGE OF AUSTIN GAS CUSTOMERS BY UTILITY IN THE CITY LIMITS OF AUSTIN.
AS YOU CAN SEE, 94% ARE, UH, TEXAS GAS SERVICE, 5%, OR AT MOST 1% IS CENTER POINT.
UM, I BELIEVE IN TERMS OF VOLUME, UH, TEXAS GAS SERVICE HAS 91%, AND I THINK IN TERMS OF REVENUES, IT'S ABOUT 93%.
THE TOTAL RESIDENTIAL GAS CUSTOMERS IN AUSTIN IN 2023 WERE ABOUT 231,000.
UH, AS A BENCHMARK, COMPARE THAT TO THE TOTAL OF AUSTIN ENERGY CUSTOMERS OF ABOUT 487,040.
THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE MASTER METERED APARTMENTS.
UH, ACCORDING TO CENSUS DATA, THE MAJORITY OF HOMEOWNERS, AND BY INFERENCE, SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, UH, IN AUSTIN AND TRAVIS COUNTY, ARE SERVED BY GAS HEAT.
UH, THE MAJORITY OF RENTERS, UH, WHICH BY INFERENCE IS MOSTLY, UH, MULTIFAMILY UNITS, UH, IN AUSTIN AND TRAVIS COUNTY, ARE SERVED WITH ELECTRIC HEAT.
THE TOTAL AUSTIN GAS UTILITY REVENUE, UH, WAS ABOUT $204 MILLION.
AND, UH, ROUGHLY TWO THIRDS OF THAT IS FOR THE RESIDENTIAL SECTOR.
UH, 20% OF THIS, THIS AMOUNTS TO ABOUT 20% OF AUSTIN ENERGY'S REVENUE IN THE RESIDENTIAL SECTOR, UH, REGARDING CARBON FOOTPRINT, UH, APPROXIMATELY.
[00:45:01]
WAS A BALLPARK.UH, UH, THE, UH, GAS UTILITY HAS EMITS ABOUT 45% OF THE CARBON, UH, THAT AUSTIN ENERGY, UH, DOES FROM ITS GAS AND COAL PLANTS.
UH, THERE WE ARE WHERE THE MONEY IS IN A 10 YEAR TIME PERIOD.
AND, UH, I DO, UH, HAVE TO SAY THAT THE LAST 2025 IS PROPOSED.
UH, IT IS FOR, FOR, UH, INTERIM RATES.
UH, BUT THESE USUALLY GET APPROVED.
UH, THERE'S BEEN A 162% INCREASE IN THIS PERIOD, UH, FOR, UM, FOR ATMOS, 117% FOR TEXAS GAS SERVICE, 90% FOR CENTER POINT AND 7% FOR THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, WHICH HAS ITS OWN MUNICIPALLY OWNED GAS UTILITY.
UH, THIS IS, UH, JUST, UH, A GOOD FOOTPRINT OF THE TEXAS GAS SERVICE SYSTEM WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS OF AUSTIN.
AND THIS IS THE FOOTPRINT OF ATMOS.
UH, I COULD NOT FIND A MAP FOR CENTER POINT, BUT I BELIEVE THEY'RE A TINY SLIVER TO THE EASTERN PART OF THE CITY.
NOW, I HAVEN'T DELVED INTO ATMOS AND CENTER POINT, BUT, UH, AT LEAST THERE ARE AT LEAST THREE GOOD REASONS OR REASONS NOT GOOD FOR THE HIGH COST OF TEXAS GAS SERVICE.
UH, FIRST, THEY'VE HAD A HUGE SPIKE IN THEIR CAPITAL COSTS.
UH, DURING THE LAST RATE CASE, IT WAS REVEALED THAT IN ONLY A FOUR YEAR PERIOD, THERE WAS A 342000063% PLANT COST INCREASE.
UH, BUT THERE WAS ONLY ABOUT A 5% INCREASE IN CUSTOMERS IN THAT SAME TIME PERIOD.
AND UNLIKE AUSTIN ENERGY AND AUSTIN WATER CITY COUNCIL IS NOT ALLOWED TO, UH, VETO THIS DECISION AS TO WHETHER TO ALLOCATE THIS MONEY, UH, EVEN THOUGH IT'S TAKING PLACE IN OUR CITY LIMITS.
WHAT HAPPENS IS IT'S, UH, USUALLY DONE WITH A SO-CALLED, UH, INTERIM RATE INCREASE, AND THESE ALMOST INVARIABLY, ARE APPROVED BY THE, UM, BY THE RAILROAD COMMISSION WHEN THE NEW RATE CASE THAT CONSOLIDATES THESE INTERIM RATE INCREASES, UH, IS REVIEWED.
ANOTHER SORE POINT IS THAT, UH, THEY DO NOT COLLECT A FAIR AMOUNT FROM NEW CUSTOMERS TO COVER THE COST OF HOOKUP.
AND THE, UH, FIGURES HERE CAME FROM MY QUESTIONS DURING THE LAST RATE CASE.
THIS INFORMATION INDIRECTLY CAME FROM TEXAS GAS SERVICE, AND BASICALLY THERE WAS 185 MILLION IN NEW INFRASTRUCTURE IN FOUR YEARS.
4 MILLION, ABOUT 2% CAME FROM DEVELOPER CONSTRUCTION FEES IN, UH, AUSTIN.
THESE ARE TYPICALLY CALLED CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT, UH, EXCUSE ME, CAPITAL RECOVERY FEES.
UH, IN THE GAS INDUSTRY, IT'S MORE COMMONLY REFERRED TO AS CONTRIBUTION AND AID, UH, IN CONSTRUCTION.
UH, IT AMOUNTS TO THE VERY SAME THING.
WHEN AUSTIN WENT TO 100%, UH, RECOVERY FOR, UM, AUSTIN ENERGY AND AUSTIN WATER, THERE WERE RATE DECREASES.
IMAGINE IF THEY COULD COLLECT 185 MILLION FROM CAPITAL RECOVERY FEES.
[00:50:01]
UM, IS THE CONSOLIDATION.UH, IS THE CONSOLIDATION OF REGIONS HERETO FOR THE CENTRAL TEXAS REGIONS STOOD ON ITS OWN.
IN THE LAST RATE CASE, I BELIEVE THIS WAS, UH, THE 2019 CASE, 2020 CASE.
UH, OO UH, TEXAS GAS SERVICE WANTED TO CONSOLIDATE THE TWO REGIONS.
AND SINCE GALVESTON IS WARMER THAN CENTRAL TEXAS, ONCE THAT ALL THE RATES WERE CONSOLIDATED, OUR RATES WENT UP.
UH, IT BEARS REPEATING THAT GAS UTILITIES, UH, IN TEXAS HAVE REGRESSIVE RATES.
THE MORE YOU USE, THE LESS YOU PAY PER UNIT OF ENERGY.
THIS DISCOURAGES ENERGY CONSERVATION, AND IT PUNISHES LOW INCOME RATE PAYERS WHO ARE MORE LIKELY TO USE LOWER AMOUNTS OF ENERGY.
UH, THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THIS, IT'S A, A GOLD MINE OF, UH, CONSUMPTION INFORMATION ABOUT HOMES IN THE US.
IT'S CALLED THE RESIDENTIAL ENERGY CONSUMPTION SURVEY, OR RECS.
UH, AND IT'S, UH, PUBLISHED EVERY FEW YEARS BY THE US ENERGY INFORMATION ADMINISTRATION.
THIS TABLE SHOWS THAT THE MORE YOU EARN, THE MORE YOU BURN, THE MORE YOU EARN, THE MORE YOU CONSUME.
UH, SO, SO BT BTUS ON THE VERTICAL AXIS AND INCOME ON THE HORIZONTAL AXIS, UH, YES, THANK YOU, MILLION BTUS, ACTUALLY.
UM, AND FOR THE MATHEMATICIANS OUT HERE, WELL, MAYBE THIS ISN'T STRICTLY LINEAR, BUT YOU DO GET THE POINT.
AUSTIN WATER RATES, UH, USED AS A BENCHMARK.
UH, AFTER THE FIRST, UH, SLUG FOR, UM, THE, UH, THE, UH, CUSTOMER FEE, UH, IT'S PROGRESSIVE.
THE MORE YOU USE, THE MORE YOU PAY PER UNIT.
AUSTIN ENERGY'S SIMILAR, UH, AFTER THE FIRST UH, BIN, WHICH IS, WHICH INCLUDES THE, UH, MONTHLY FEE.
UH, THE MORE YOU YOU USE, THE MORE YOU PAY PER UNIT.
TEXAS GAS SERVICE, WELL, NOT SO MUCH.
UM, AND SO LET ME USE THIS AS A SEGUE TO, UH, THE WAY THAT, UH, THE CONTRAST BETWEEN HOW, UH, LOW INCOME RATE PAYERS ARE TREATED BETWEEN, UH, AUSTIN'S, UH, CITY OF AUSTIN UTILITIES AND TEXAS GAS SERVICE SLIDE.
A, FORGIVE ME, I'M GONNA, UM, JUMP BACK.
UH, I, I'VE LEFT A COUPLE SLIDES OUT.
A MAIN, UH, I, I CITED, UH, SAID A MOMENT AGO, A MAIN REASON FOR REGRESSIVE RATES IS THE HIGH MONTHLY CUSTOMER CHARGE, AND IT'S FOLLOWED BY A FLAT FEE.
WELL, THIS IS MY BEST CALCULATION AS OF THIS TIME AS TO, UH, HOW MUCH OF THE CUSTOMER, UH, CHARGE, UH, MAKES UP THE TOTAL BILL CENTER POINT 89% AT MOST, 82%.
TEXAS GAS SERVICE ACTUALLY HAS TWO RATES, AND RATHER THAN GET IN THE WEEDS, I JUST AVERAGED THEM.
UH, ONE IS HIGHER THAN 58, 1 IS LOWER, LET'S JUST SAY 58.
THE MUNICIPAL GAS UTILITY THAT, UM,
[00:55:01]
I USE AS A BENCHMARK IS 43%.AND WHILE THE, UM, THE STATE OF TEXAS MAY, UH, IGNORE HIGH EXCESSIVE MONTHLY FEES, IT'S QUITE COMMON IN MANY GAS UTILITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY TO HAVE MUCH MORE REASONABLE FEES.
UH, THESE 21 UTILITIES LISTED HERE, AND THIS IS NOT A COMPREHENSIVE LIST, BUT THESE ARE UTILITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY THAT HAVE, UH, THESE BELOW, UH, $15, UH, ONE OF THEM IS AS LOW AS $4 PER MONTH.
DID YOU MAKE THIS LIST? I'M CURIOUS.
UH, I, I CREATED IT AND I HAD ENOUGH HOURS IN THE DAY TO DO A, A HUNT AND PECK, BUT I COULDN'T DO EVERY UTILITY IN THE COUNTRY IN THE TIME PERIOD I HAD ALLOTTED.
ISN'T THIS A COOL PICTURE? IT JUST SORT OF GRABS YOU BY THE THROAT COLD, BITTER WINTER, AND YOU CAN'T AFFORD YOUR GAS BILL.
BUT AUSTIN ENERGY, THEY'RE SPENDING $24 MILLION A YEAR TO HELP PEOPLE, UH, PAY THEIR ELECTRIC AND WATER BILLS AND WASTEWATER BILLS.
BUT TEXAS GAS SERVICE BUDGETED APPROXIMATELY $120,000 LAST YEAR.
IT VARIES A LITTLE BIT FROM YEAR TO YEAR, AND IF YOU KNOW IT'S $10,000 HIGHER OR LO LOWER, I, I CAN BE CORRECTED.
BUT IT, IT'S REALLY IN THAT BALLPARK.
AGAIN, THIS IS, UH, NOT A COMPREHENSIVE LIST OF UTILITIES, UH, IN OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY, UH, IN, WELL, ACTUALLY ONE IN THIS STATE THAT HELP PEOPLE, UH, POOR, UH, LOW INCOME PEOPLE WITH THEIR BILL.
UH, THAT WOULD BE CPS ENERGY IN SAN ANTONIO.
UH, AND SINCE THEY HAVE SUCH LOW RATES TO BEGIN WITH, UH, IT DOES MEASURE SOME GOOD PERCENTAGE OF, UH, THE TOTAL AVERAGE BILL.
UM, I, I WOULD, UH, ESTIMATE MAYBE 20%, BUT RATE, UH, TO MOVE ON, UH, YOU'VE GOT, LIKE, YOU'VE GOT, UM, SOUTHWEST GAS CASCADE NATURAL, UH, THE CALIFORNIA UTILITIES LIKE SOCAL AND PACIFIC GAS, UH, EVERSOURCE IN MASSACHUSETTS, UH, UH, PUBLIC SERVICE, ELECTRIC AND GAS IN NEW JERSEY, NYCO IN ILLINOIS, NORTHERN, UH, PUBLIC SERVICE, UH, NORTHERN INDIANA PUBLIC SERVICE, UH, COMPANY.
UH, AND THEY'RE ALL GIVING SOME NOTICEABLE AMOUNT OF DISCOUNT TO QUALIFIED LOW INCOME RATE PAYERS.
HERE ARE SOME EXAMPLES OF UTILITIES THAT HAVE CONSERVATION BASED RATES.
UH, THESE HAVE TWO TIERS, UM, WHERE, UH, THE FIRST TIER IS, UH, WHICH IS A BASELINE FOR MODERATE AMOUNTS OF ENERGY IS LOWER THAN THE SECOND TIER.
AND SO, TO CONCLUDE, OTHER ISSUES THAT I HOPE TO, UH, BRIEF THE, UH, THE SLIDE THAT I HOPE TO SLIDE, UH, OTHER ISSUES THAT I HOPE TO, UH, BRIEF COMMISSION ON IN THE FUTURE WOULD INCLUDE HIGH FUEL COSTS, UH, POORLY PERFORMING CONSERVATION PROGRAMS, UH, POLLUTION AND PROGRESS ON LEAK MITIGATION.
[01:00:01]
UH, AND LAST SLIDE.AND FINALLY, THE FRANCHISE, TECHNICALLY IT, UNLESS THERE'S AN EXTENSION FOR SOME REASON, IT WOULD NORMALLY BE SIGNED IN OCTOBER OF 2026.
BUT THE NEGOTIATIONS REALLY DO START NOW.
UH, I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE THE SUGGESTION THAT OUR COMMISSION HOLD, UH, PUBLIC HEARINGS ON THIS AS EARLY AS THIS SUMMER TO START GETTING INPUT FROM STAKEHOLDERS AS TO WHAT THEY'D LIKE TO SEE.
UM, THANK YOU FOR, UM, YOUR ATTENTION.
ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? UH, COMMISSIONER DAVIS.
THANK YOU, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS, UM, FOR THAT PRESENTATION.
UM, I WAS, I WAS DEFINITELY VERY STRUCK BY THE AMOUNT, UM, OF FUNDING, UH, THAT TEXAS GAS PUTS TOWARDS LOW INCOME ASSISTANCE.
UM, AND I, I GUESS MY QUESTION WOULD BE IN FRANCHISE NEGOTIATIONS, DOES THE CITY HAVE THE ABILITY TO SAY, YOU KNOW, IN ORDER FOR YOU TO OPERATE WITHIN OUR CITY LIMITS, THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT THERE BE A LOW INCOME ASSISTANCE PROGRAM THAT ISN'T A LAUGHABLE AMOUNT.
UM, I AM NOT A UTILITY ATTORNEY.
UH, AND SO I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK DEFINITIVELY, AND EVEN IF I WERE AN ATTORNEY, THINGS CAN ALWAYS GO TO COURT.
BUT AS FAR AS I KNOW, AUSTIN ENERGY IS NOT OFFICIALLY OBLIGATED TO RENEW THE FRANCHISE.
I MEAN, TEXAS GAS SERVICE OWNS IT.
UH, THERE IS NO QUESTION OF THAT.
IF, UH, THE CITY CHOSE TO BUY IT, IF SOME OTHER UTILITY CHOSE TO BUY IT, THEY WOULD HAVE TO BUY IT.
BUT I DON'T THINK THE CITY TECHNICALLY HAS TO SIGN ANOTHER FRANCHISE.
AND WELL, YOU COULD SAY, WELL, WHAT DO YOU JUST GO ON INDEFINITELY HAVING IT NOT, DOES TEXAS GAS SERVICE NOT OPERATE ANYMORE? TO MY KNOWLEDGE, THE, THE LEVERAGE THAT WE HAVE IS THAT THEY WOULD HAVE DIFFICULTY GETTING LONG-TERM FINANCING IF THEY DIDN'T HAVE THEIR LICENSE TO OPERATE.
AND I GOT THAT FROM SOMEONE AT TEXAS GAS SERVICE DURING THE LAST FRANCHISE.
SO I, I DON'T THINK I'M OUT OF LINE IN MY DEDUCTION.
UM, SO THAT, THAT WAS A VERY LONG-WINDED ANSWER.
UH, BUT I THINK WE DO HAVE THAT ABILITY.
YEAH, I JUST HAVE A SIMILAR QUESTION SIMILAR TO COMMISSIONER DAVIS.
UH, I GUESS OTHER THAN THE PUBLIC HEARING, WHAT DO YOU PAUL THINK IS THE BEST WAY FOR US TO US AS A COMMISSION OR A SUB QUORUM TO BEGIN TO LEARN, YOU KNOW, WHAT OUR OPTIONS WOULD BE AS FAR AS, UH, THE CITY'S OPTIONS WOULD BE AS FAR AS LEVER LEVERAGE WITH TGS, OR HOW THE END OF THIS FRANCHISE PROCESS IS GOING TO HAPPEN AND WHAT OPTIONS THE CITY HAS TO RENEW OR NOT RENEW OR EXECUTE THE CLAUSE THAT THEY, THE CITY, THE OPTION THAT THE CITY HAS TO PURCHASE? THE, THE INFRASTRUCTURE.
UM, MY OWN, UH, COMPASS IS THAT I INTEND TO, UH, COME BACK IN A MONTH OR TWO WITH ANOTHER SHORT BRIEFING, AND IT MAY BE BROKEN UP INTO ONE OR TWO PARTS.
I, I'VE BEEN DOING THIS A LONG TIME.
UH, I THINK EVERYONE HERE IS PRETTY SMART.
SO, UM, THIS IS MORE OF A MATTER OF ME PASSING ON KNOWLEDGE RATHER THAN BEING CONDESCENDING.
UH, BUT ONCE WE, ONCE WE ALL HAVE A GROUNDING IN THIS, UM, WHAT, UH, I, I THINK GETTING STAKEHOLDER INPUT IS IMPERATIVE.
I THINK THEN ONCE WE GET STAKEHOLDER INPUT
[01:05:01]
FROM ONE OR TWO PUBLIC HEARINGS, WE SHOULD COME UP WITH A RESOLUTION TO CITY COUNCIL, UH, MAKING OUR SUGGESTIONS ON HOW THEY FIELD, THIS IS THE CURRENT, UM, THANK YOU FOR PUTTING THIS BRIEFING TOGETHER.UM, I, IT IS AN EXCELLENT WAY FOR US TO BEGIN UNDERSTANDING THE BREADTH OF OUR RESPONSIBILITIES AND OPPORTUNITIES WITH RESPECT TO ADVISING THE CITY COUNCIL ON GAS UTILITY REGULATION.
I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE THE TIME AND EXPERTISE YOU PUT INTO IT.
CAN, CAN YOU TELL US, OR I BET YOU HAVE HANDY THE LINK FOR WHERE THE CURRENT FRANCHISE AGREEMENT LIVES, AND I WONDER, UH, YES.
I, I AM, I FOR ONE, WOULD APPRECIATE THE CHANCE TO REVIEW IT, BECAUSE THAT WOULD GIVE ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE VARIOUS LEVERS ARE.
MR. GRAHAM? YEAH, I DID, UH, UH, MR. GRAHAM, I, I DID SAY AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING, UH, THAT I WOULD OFFER YOU TIME TO RESPOND, AND I WILL, BUT I, I WANT TO JUST GET COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSIONERS IF IT'S OKAY.
I JUST WANNA ASK ONE QUESTION.
SO YOU'VE ASKED US, JUST TO CLARIFY, YOU'VE ASKED US TO COME IN THE MAY MEETING AND PRESENT, IS THAT CORRECT? I, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE ON THE SAME PAGE ON YOUR TIMELINE.
AND WHY DO, WHY DON'T YOU TELL ME YOUR UNDERSTANDING SO THAT I, I I DON'T MISS SOMETHING.
MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT YOU HAD ASKED US TO COME IN MAY AND PRESENT ON SOME OF THE RATE ISSUES YOU HAD IDENTIFIED.
I, I SENT A, AN EMAIL TO A CITY STAFF PERSON WHOSE NAME I AM BLANKING OUT IN A SENIOR MOMENT.
AND, AND I BET SHE RELATED TO YOU.
SO I, THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD BE GREAT.
WHAT I WAS TRYING TO DO WAS GET BACKGROUND INFORMATION FROM TGS AND, AND SOME OF IT COVERS SOME OF THE SAME MATERIAL, PROBABLY WITH A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT SPIN THAN, UM, WHAT MR. COMMISSIONER ROBBINS HAS OFFERED.
THAT WOULD BE WONDERFUL IF YOU GUYS CAN DO IT.
AND IF NONE OF MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS OBJECT.
I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT WAS THE PLAN AND YOU GUYS HAD CARVED TIME OUT ON THE AGENDA.
AND THE OTHER QUESTION IS, HOW MUCH TIME DID YOU WANT US TO GIVE US TO DO THAT? UM, MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE 15 MINUTES.
UH, BUT I, I ASKED MORE QUESTIONS THAN THAT.
LET, LET'S CALL IT HALF AN HOUR BEFORE QUESTIONS.
AND IF THEY CAN MAKE IT CRISPER, THEN I'M SURE THEY WILL.
'CAUSE THEY DON'T WANNA TORTURE US.
NO, THAT'S ANYMORE THAN WE WANNA TORTURE THEM.
AND DID YOU WANT US TO TALK AT THAT TIME ABOUT THE FRANCHISE AS WELL? MIGHT AS WELL.
UH, YOU CAN, YOU CAN DO THAT IN A FEW MINUTES IF YOU WANT.
JUST, I, I JUST WANT TO HEAR THE QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS FROM THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS OKAY.
I DIDN'T WANNA INTERRUPT, BUT I JUST, I WANTED TO MAKE SURE YOU KNEW, OR WE WERE ON THE SAME PAGE, IF THAT, MAKE SURE THAT FITS WITH YOUR PLANS FOR THE OTHER THINGS YOU HAVE SCHEDULED.
AND MY APOLOGIES FOR NOT SHARING THAT EMAIL WITH THE FULL COMMISSION.
I, I AM NOT SURE WHETHER SENDING SUCH AN EMAIL TO ALL OF YOU IS VIOLATING QUORUM RULES.
SO I, SO I SENT IT TO A VERY SMALL GROUP INSTEAD.
BUT IF, IF I'M ALLOWED TO SEND IT, MAYBE MS. EVERHART, YOU CAN TELL ME IF I'M ALLOWED TO SEND IT TO EVERYONE VIA MS. GOODWIN, I WOULD BE HAPPY TO DO SO.
WE CAN DISTRIBUTE IT FOR YOU IF YOU WANT.
AND THAT WILL NOT BREAK QUORUM.
UH, MR. GRAHAM, UH, COMMISSIONERS, ARE THERE ANY, UM, OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? I
DID YOU, IS THERE ANYTHING YOU WANTED TO SAY TO US NOW, SIR? THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
[5. Recommend changes to Austin Energy’s Residential Rooftop Solar Program, with inclusion of energy storage batteries. ]
ON THE AGENDA IS RECOMMEND CHANGES TO AUSTIN ENERGY'S RESIDENTIAL ROOFTOP SOLAR PROGRAM WITH INCLUSION[01:10:01]
OF ENERGY STORAGE BATTERIES.NOW, UH, I'M, I'M GONNA JUST MAKE THIS REAL CLEAR TO ANYBODY THAT DOESN'T KNOW.
I DID CO-SPONSOR THIS, BUT ABOUT 70% OF THIS CAME FROM COMMISSIONER SAIS.
ABOUT 20% OF IT CAME FROM COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.
UH, ALL I DID IS JUST DO EDITING AND THINGS.
I, I, I DON'T KNOW THAT I, I WAS NOT THE MAIN AUTHOR OF THIS, BUT I WAS IN LARGELY IN SUPPORT OF IT.
'CAUSE I'D LIKE TO SEE, UH, THE PROGRAMS, UH, IMPROVED AND ENHANCED.
UH, COMMISSIONER SA SARITA, YOU HAVE A PRESENTATION.
CAN YOU DO THIS IN 20 MINUTES? YES.
THANKS EVERYONE FOR YOUR TIME AND ATTENTION.
UM,
SO QUICKLY, I'D JUST LIKE TO, UH, REMIND EVERYONE SORT OF WHERE, WHERE WE WERE.
SO ON FEBRUARY 3RD, WE HAD A MISSION, UH, MYSELF AND MY CO-SPONSORS BROUGHT THE, UH, BROUGHT THE INITIAL, UH, RESOLUTION.
UM, EVERYONE HEARD THAT AND, AND, UH, COMPUTED THE INFORMATION THERE.
UH, THE FOLLOWING MEETING, UH, TIM HARVEY GAVE THE AUSTIN ENERGY PERSPECTIVE.
I DID WATCH THE MEETING, UH, AND READ, READ THE NOTES.
UM, AND THEN HERE WE ARE TODAY, I HAVE MADE A RED LINE VERSION OF THE RESOLUTION, UM, ADDRESSING, UH, CONCERNS FROM THE, UH, FROM AUSTIN ENERGY AND ALSO FROM THE, THE COMMISSION, WHICH IS WHAT I'M GONNA TALK ABOUT TODAY.
SO WHAT'S NEW IN THE RED LINE RESOLUTION? UH, ONE IS A BIT OF A HOUSEKEEPING MATTER.
SO ALL BATTERY RELATED LANGUAGE I, I REMOVED TO AVOID A POTENTIAL CONFLICT OF INTEREST, UM, OF MINE.
SOME THINGS CHANGED AT MY JOB THAT MADE BATTERIES SORT OF OFF THE TABLE FOR A RESOLUTION THAT I WAS WRITING.
SO THOSE THINGS ARE ALL GOOD, BUT JUST REMOVED FROM THIS RESOLUTION AND ANY OTHER COMMISSIONER IS FREE TO TAKE UP THOSE IDEAS IF THEY CHOOSE.
UH, THE SECOND IS I EDIT IT TO ADDRESS, UH, FEEDBACK FROM THE FEBRUARY 18TH MEETING.
SO, HERE'S SOME OF THE THINGS I HEARD MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS, UH, SAY.
FOLKS APPRECIATED THE PRESENTATION FROM, UH, AUSTIN ENERGY.
THERE WERE A COUPLE OF SPECIFIC QUESTIONS, BUT THEN HERE, HIGHLIGHTED AT THE BOTTOM FROM COMMISSIONERS.
DAVIS AND LUKI WERE TWO MAIN POINTS I PLAN TO ADDRESS HERE.
ONE IS ABOUT CONSUMER PROTECTION AND THE OTHER IS ABOUT PERSON SAFETY.
SO THESE WERE LIKE REALLY THE TWO KEY POINTS I SAW RAISED THAT I WANT TO SPEND A GOOD BIT OF TIME, UH, UH, DISCUSSING, UH, TODAY.
SO, FIRST, A REMINDER OF LIKE, WHY, WHY IS THERE EVEN A RESOLUTION IN, IN THE FIRST PLACE? SO, DEFINITION OF THE PROBLEM IS, IS THAT, UM, THERE IS A, THERE'S SORT OF A TSUNAMI OF ELECTRICAL LOAD, UH, COMING FOR US.
AND THAT IS THE ELECTRIFICATION OF WORK PREVIOUSLY DONE BY HYDROCARBONS.
SO AS WE, AS OUR CLIMATE HEATS UP, OUR HVAC LOAD WILL GO UP AS WE DESIRE MORE INFORMATION, WE WILL BUILD MORE DATA CENTERS AS WE DESIRE GOODS AND TRANSPORTATION.
ELECTRIFICATION WILL BE, ELECTRICITY WILL BE USED TO TRANSPORT THOSE, THOSE GOODS BECAUSE IT IS THE LOWEST COST WAY, UH, TO DO SO.
SO THIS IS A, IS A LARGE, UM, INCREASE IN FEATURE LOAD, WHICH IS, IS COMING FOR US.
UH, THIS, THIS IS THE PROBLEM, UM, THAT THE RESOLUTION AIMS TO IMPART HELP ADDRESS.
SO YOU MAY ALSO REASONABLY ASK, SO WHY, WHY DOES RESIDENTIAL SOLAR MATTER? LIKE WE ALL KNOW THERE CAN BE LARGE SOLAR FARMS AND GREENFIELD INSTALLATIONS, WIND FARMS AND SO ON.
THERE'S REALLY TWO IMPORTANT REASONS FOR THIS.
ONE IS THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF ROOFTOPS, UM, AND EMPTY ROOFTOPS.
AND, AND TWO IS THAT, UM, SOLAR AT THE EDGE.
LEMME DEFINE WHAT I MEAN BY THAT, WHICH IS BEHIND THE METER SOLAR, UM, POWER DOES NOT GO PAST THAT.
THIS IS LIKE THE POINT, THE TERMINAL POINT OF THE, OF POWER TRANSMISSION.
SO IF YOU IMAGINE KIND OF LIKE A LARGE GRID SCALE SET UP, UH, OF SOLAR ON THE RIGHT, THAT PLANT DELIVERING POWER TO THAT HOME IS FUNDAMENTALLY CONSTRAINED BY THE TRANSMISSION LINES BETWEEN THEM.
BUT THAT SAME THING IS NOT TRUE FOR SOLAR AND SOLAR, IN FACT, ESPECIALLY WHEN COUPLED WITH BATTERIES RELIEVES, UH, CONSTRAINT ON THE TRANSMISSION AND DISTRIBUTION, UH, SYSTEM.
SO THAT IS WHY THIS RESOLUTION IN PARTICULAR AIMED AT RESIDENTIAL SOLAR MATTERS.
SO, YEAH, ALL, ALL OF THIS SOUNDS GREAT, BUT MAYBE IT'S, MAYBE IT'S JUST THEORETICAL, RIGHT? LIKE, CAN WE REALLY IMPROVE THINGS? AND I WANT TO SHOW A, A, A, UH, A CASE OF WHAT SUCCESS LOOKS LIKE.
UM, SOLAR IS UBIQUITOUS IN ALL OF AUSTRALIA, AND THERE ARE A COUPLE OF LIKE REALLY IMPORTANT POINTS I'D LIKE TO, TO, TO BRING.
[01:15:01]
I DID A, UH, A CASE STUDY, GREATER ADELAIDE, WHICH IS LIKE A, IT'S A SMALL CITY SURROUNDED BY LARGER CITIES THAT HAS A KIND OF METRO AREA, SIMILAR TO AUSTIN, ABOUT A MILLION PLUS PEOPLE.THEY HAVE 35% SOLAR PENETRATION.
TO THE BEST OF MY ESTIMATION, AUSTIN HAS 6%, MAYBE 10.
THE DATA'S NOT SUPER EASY TO COME BY.
AND COSTS IN AUSTIN ARE SOMEWHERE ARE GONNA BE IN THE $3 PER WATT REGION AND $1 PER WATT REGION IN AUSTRALIA.
SO THE, THE POINT I'M MAKING HERE IS THAT LIKE, WE ARE NOT DOING GOOD.
UM, AND THERE IS EXISTENCE PROOF THAT THIS IS POSSIBLE WITHOUT EXCESSIVE, UH, DOWN, YOU KNOW, DOWNSIDE CONSEQUENCES.
THEY'RE JUST DOING A BETTER JOB OF THIS IN AUSTRALIA, AND WE SHOULD USE THIS AS A CRITIQUE OF OURSELVES.
UM, AND MY, THE MAIN CASE I'M GONNA MAKE TODAY IS THAT THE WAY THEY HAVE DONE THIS, THE WAY AUSTRALIA HAS ACHIEVED THIS, IS THEY HAVE CONVERTED SOLAR, RESIDENTIAL SOLAR INTO A COMMODITY GOOD, RATHER THAN A LUXURY GOOD.
SO I'LL TALK MORE ABOUT THAT IN A MINUTE.
BUT FOR, FOR NOW, JUST I WANT EVERYBODY TO ASK YOURSELVES, LIKE, DO YOU KNOW ANYBODY THAT WOULD BE INTERESTED THAT IS NOT INTERESTED IN SOLAR FOR A $30,000 INSTALL ON THEIR HOUSE, BUT IS INTERESTED AT A $10,000 INSTALL? LIKE THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FROM BETWEEN AUSTRALIA AND THE UNITED STATES, IN PARTICULAR, AUSTIN.
SO I THINK THERE'S, THERE'S, THERE'S A REAL WIN ON THE TABLE HERE, IF WE CAN DO A GOOD JOB AT THIS NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.
SO, YOU KNOW, HOW ARE THOSE LOW COSTS ACHIEVED? UM, ONE REALLY IMPORTANT POINT I WANT TO MARK.
I WANNA POINT OUT HERE AS WE SORT OF AS A PLANET MARCH TOWARDS SOLAR AS A COMMODITY.
UM, THERE'S FEW FUNDAMENTALS TO UNDERSTAND THIS.
ONE IS THAT LIKE THE COST OF SOLAR PANELS HAVE PLUMMETED.
SO 90% DROP SINCE THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION AND 45% DROP IN JUST THE LAST TWO YEARS.
THESE, THESE, THE, AND THESE ARE COMMODITY SOLAR MODULE PRICES.
SO THIS IS NOT LIKE BOUGHT AT A, YOU KNOW, AT AT A BIG BOX STORE.
THIS IS HOW MUCH THEY COST AS A COMMODITY, GOOD AT THE POINT OF MANUFACTURER.
BUT THE, SO THE ABSOLUTE NUMBERS AREN'T VERY MEANINGFUL, BUT THE TREND, THE TREND CERTAINLY IS.
UM, SO THE REASON I'M POINTING, I, I'M, I'M POINTING THIS OUT, IS LIKE, IF THESE PRICES HAVE FALLEN THIS MUCH, WHY HASN'T THE PRICE OF AN INSTALLATION FALLEN THIS MUCH IS THE FUNDAMENTAL CONFUSION.
UM, I HAVE HERE, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.
THIS IS THE LIKE PRIMARY HYPOTHESIS, UM, FOR, FOR, UH, THAT I'M PRESENTING TODAY.
SO WE INSTALL SOLAR AS A LUXURY.
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? UM, LUXURY GOODS ARE CHARACTERIZED BY THREE THINGS, HIGH PRICES, HIGH PROFIT MARGIN, AND LOW VOLUMES.
SO I WOULD ARGUE THAT THESE THINGS ARE, ARE NOT USEFUL FOR, FOR OUR GOAL.
UM, BUT MORE TO THE POINT THERE IS LIKE A FOURTH ELEMENT HERE, WHICH I WILL HIGHLIGHT WAS A CONCERN OF MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS.
AND IT IS THAT THIS ENVIRONMENT IS, IS RIPE FOR BAD ACTORS.
SOFT COSTS ARE HIGH, SO THERE'S LIKE OVERHEAD CUSTOMER ACQUISITION COSTS, ET CETERA, BUT MATERIAL COSTS ARE LOW COMPARED TO MARKET PRICES.
THIS CREATES A SPACE WHICH IS ATTRACTIVE TO BAD ACTORS.
UM, BASICALLY BECAUSE THERE, THERE ARE HIGH PROFIT MARGINS AVAILABLE, LIKE IT LOOKS LIKE EASY MONEY AND EASY MONEY ATTRACTS BAD ACTORS.
SO THIS MEANS THAT THE LEGITIMATE INSTALLERS ONES WHO, AND BY LEGITIMATE MEAN ONES THAT HOPE TO MAKE A BUSINESS A LONGSTANDING BUSINESS OUT OF IT, UM, THEY'RE FORCED TO COUNTER POSITION AT AT TO, TO THE BAD ACTORS.
SO THEY HAVE A HIGH PRODUCT SIGNALING, HIGH PRICE PRODUCT SIGNALING QUALITY.
UM, SO HIGH PRICES WITHOUT FUNDAMENTAL VALUE DELIVERED, LIKE THIS IS THE DEFINITION OF, OF LUXURY.
UM, SO THEN THE ZEITGEIST AROUND THE CON CONVERSATION IS LIKE, WATCH OUT FOR GRIFTERS.
YOU SHOULD GET, YOU SHOULD GO WITH THIS HIGH PRICE INSTALLER BECAUSE THEY'RE, THEY'RE SO GOOD AND YOU'RE GONNA GET AT GREAT, A GREAT INSTALL.
AND THE END RESULT OF THIS THAT THERE IS, IS THAT THERE IS NO LIKE COSTCO OF SOLAR INSTALLATION OPTION.
THERE IS NO LIKE, JUST VERY HIGH VALUE, ALSO VERY GOOD OPTION TO HAVE.
HERE'S A, A PIECE OF EVIDENCE I WANT TO, LIKE, I WANT TO PRESENT AS A, OF SOLAR, AS A LUXURY.
SO THIS, THESE, THESE TWO PIECES OF EVIDENCE ACTUALLY FOUND TO ME, THESE ARE TWO PEOPLE I KNOW THAT GOT SOLAR IN THE LAST THREE MONTHS.
SO THE HOUSE ON THE LEFT, UM, HAS SEVEN ROOF PLANES.
IT'S A STEEP PITCH, STEEP PITCH ROOF HAS MANY ROOF PLANES, CRITTER GUARDS, WHICH ARE THE, THE SHEET METAL AROUND THE PANEL TO KEEP, KEEP CRITTERS FROM GETTING IN THERE.
UM, COMP SHINGLE, UH, REQUIRING ROOF PENETRATION, LIKE THIS IS A, ON THE LEFT IS A HIGH LABOR COST INSTALLED.
CONTRAST TO THE, TO ONE ON THE RIGHT, ONE ROOF, PLANE, LOW SLOPES, SINGLE STORY METAL ROOF THAT DOES NOT REQUIRE ROOF PENETRATIONS.
LIKE THIS IS A ONE, ONE DAY, MAYBE
[01:20:01]
TWO DAY, UM, INSTALLS.BUT SOMEHOW, AND, AND BY THE WAY, VERY, ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME AMOUNT OF SOLAR POWER, THEY BOTH HAD BATTERIES.
SO THEY LIKE SOMEHOW BASICALLY THE SAME INSTALL ON THESE TWO HOUSES WITH VERY DIFFERENT ROOFS MADE FOR LIKE A GREAT COMPARISON POINT.
UM, SO THE ONLY WAY FOR THIS TO BE POSSIBLE IS THAT THE COST THAT GO INTO THE EQUIPMENT AND UH, COMPLEXITY OF INSTALL ARE NOT DOMINATING.
UM, SO THE HOUSE ON THE RIGHT IS A SUPER HIGH PROFIT INSTALL, WHEREAS THE HOUSE ON THE LEFT IS A LOW PROFIT INSTALL AND THE MARKET BEARS THIS BECAUSE IT'S VIEWED AS A LUXURY GOOD.
AND A FREE MARKET THAN STALL ON THE RIGHT BY THE SAME INSTALLER WOULD COST LESS BECAUSE OF HOW MUCH LESS WORK IT IS.
SO I WOULD ARGUE THAT LIKE THE FREE MARKET IN THE CLASSICAL SENSE IS LIKE NOT FUNCTIONING WELL HERE BECAUSE THAT INSTALL ON THE RIGHT SHOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH CHEAPER THAN INSTALL ON THE LEFT.
SOMEHOW THEY'RE THE SAME PRICE AND IT DOESN'T ADD UP.
SO WHAT IS THE ALTERNATIVE HERE? LIKE WHAT IS SOLAR AS A COMMODITY GOOD, UH, LOOK LIKE? WHAT DO WE NEED TO BREAK OUT OF THE LUXURY SOLAR CYCLE INTO THE VIRTUOUS COMMODITY SOLAR CYCLE? UM, SO SOLAR WILL NOT BE THE FIRST PRODUCT TO DO THIS.
SO THIS IS LIKE WASHING MACHINES, TVS, CARS, CELL PHONES.
THEY ALL STARTED OUT AS LUXURY GOODS.
AND THEN AS THE, UM, PRICES FELL, UM, SORRY, COSTS FELL, UM, THEY CONVERTED TO A, A, UM, A COMMODITY GOOD, UH, ON SOLAR.
THE FUNDAMENTAL COSTS LIKE HAVE FALLEN AND CONTINUE TO FALL.
BUT THE PRICE OF CONSUMERS IS STILL HIGH BECAUSE THE SYSTEM HAS NOT SNAPPED OUT OF IT, IN PART PROPPED UP BY SYSTEMS THE RESOLUTION TRIES TO ADDRESS, WHICH BY THE WAY, I DON'T CLAIM THAT LIKE THIS IS A SILVER BULLET.
THIS IS LIKE A PIECE OF THE PUZZLE THAT MOVES THE NEEDLE IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
UM, SO, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SYSTEMS IN THE RE RESOLUTION PLANS TO ADDRESS, WHICH MADE SENSE WHEN SOLAR PANELS WERE 90 CENTS PER WATT.
BUT DON'T MAKE SENSE WHEN SOLAR PANELS ARE 9 CENTS PER WATT.
SO THE VIRTUAL CYCLE LOOKS LIKE THIS.
SOFT COSTS DECREASE, WHICH IS THE OBJECTIVE OF THE RESOLUTION.
UH, MATERIAL COSTS ARE NOW IS ONE OBJECTIVE OF THE RESOLUTION.
MANY INSTALLERS ENTER THE MARKET BECAUSE IT'S ATTRACTIVE TO DO SO.
IT'S BECAUSE IT'S NOT TOO DIFFICULT TO WORK IN AUSTIN.
IN FACT, LET'S MAKE IT EASY TO WORK IN AUSTIN ON SOLAR COMPETITION DRIVES PRICES AND PROFIT DOWN.
THIS IS THE FREE MARKET WORKING AS IT NORMALLY DOES.
AND BAD ACT ACTORS EXIT THE SCENE, UM, BECAUSE IT'S JUST NOT WORTH IT ANYMORE.
IT'S LIKE TOO HARD TO MAKE A HIGH PROFIT, UM, HIGH PROFIT BUCK.
SO THEY LEAVE AND THEN THE CONVERSATION CHANGES TO HOW CHEAP SOLAR IS.
LIKE YOU CAN, YOU CAN LOOK ON YOUTUBE, YOU CAN FIND LIKE AUSTRALIANS HAVING CONVERSATIONS ABOUT SOLAR, ABOUT HOW THEIR NEIGHBOR GOT IT AND IT WAS A DOLLAR PER WA.
AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THEY GOT IT AND IT WAS A SUPER EASY, YOU KNOW, PROCESS THAT WAS REALLY FINANCIALLY DRIVEN, LIKE THEY CHOSE TO DO IT 'CAUSE THEY JUST WANTED TO SAVE MONEY ON THEIR BILL.
UM, YOU KNOW, SOLAR AT, UM, SOLAR AT $30,000 FOR 10 KILOWATTS, LIKE DOES NOT PAY OFF.
UM, 10 KILOWATTS AT AT $10,000, YOU KNOW, DOES PAY OFF IS THE, UM, TO, TO THE HOMEOWNER.
SO MAKES IT ECONOMICALLY RATIONAL.
SO MY CLAIM IS THE RESOLUTION HELPS BREAK THIS CYCLE BY BY STREAMLINING.
SO, UM, THE SOLAR COURSE AND QUIZ CONVERT TO A VIDEO PLUS A REFERENCE, UM, REDUCES FRICTION INSTALLED, UM, INCREASES IN SOLAR ADOPTION, WHICH IS DRIVES UP VOLUME.
UM, REMOVING THE SIZING APPROVAL REDUCES STEPS.
UM, ADDITIONAL EXTRA NEC REQUIREMENTS INCREASES SAMENESS.
SO INSTALLING IN AUSTIN WILL BE THE SAME AS INSTALLING IN SAN ANTONIO.
THERE WON'T BE SPECIAL AUSTIN ONLY RULES THE 75% TOTAL TOTAL SOLAR RESOURCE FRACTION, THREE KILOWATT ONLY, UM, REQUIREMENT THAT WILL ALLOW SYSTEM SIZES TO GO UP, WHICH MAKES COSTS, MAKES INSTALLS MORE CAPITAL EFFICIENT AND WILL DRIVE VOLUME UP.
UM, AND THEN FINALLY, ASYNCHRONOUS INSPECTION AGAIN, REDUCES STRAPS, REDUCES BACK AND FORTH AND SAVES INSTALLER TIME, LABOR, AND TIME.
SO GOING BACK TO THE POINTS RAISED BY MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS, WE, UH, ONE KEY ONE WAS CONSUMER PROTECTIONS.
AND THE CASE I WANNA MAKE FOR YOU NOW IS THAT THE RESOLUTION DOES NOT RELAX CONSUMER PROTECTIONS.
THE MAIN REASON FOR THAT IS WHAT I WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT, UM, IS THAT WE CAN BREAK INTO A, UH, A MORE VIRTUOUS CYCLE.
UM, THE PRESENT SYSTEM IS ONEROUS IT'S LUXURY GOODS CONDITIONS, RIGHT, FOR BAD ACTORS.
LET'S FOLLOW AUSTRALIA'S EXAMPLE AND FLIP THE NARRATIVE ON THAT ONE.
THE, THE, THE SECOND, UM, RELATED TO, UM, CONSUMER PRODUCTIONS IS THE SOLAR COURSE AND QUIZ.
SO I WANT TO CHALLENGE ANYONE PREPARED TO VOTE AGAINST RESOLUTION.
PLEASE GO TAKE THE COURSE AND QUIZ AND THEN CHECK YOUR RECALL OF THE INFORMATION ONE WEEK LATER.
UM, THIS RESOLUTION AIMS TO LIKE MAKE THIS MORE EFFECTIVE AND LOWER
[01:25:01]
FRICTION.SO THE LOWER FRICTION PART IS JUST SALES 1 0 1.
IF YOU WANT MORE OF SOMETHING, YOU HAVE TO MAKE IT EASY TO DO.
'CAUSE PEOPLE WILL EXIT THE BUYING.
IN THIS CASE, THIS IS THE LIKE ADOPTING SOLAR, UM, PROCESS.
ANYTIME THEY ENCOUNTER ANY, ANY STICKINESS.
IT'S LIKE YOU FOUND THE THING YOU WANNA BUY ONLINE.
IT'S 10% CHEAPER THAN AMAZON, BUT AT SOME RANDOM WEBSITE, BUT YOU BUY IT ON AMAZON ANYWAY 'CAUSE YOU KIND OF TRUST AMAZON.
THEY ALREADY HAVE YOUR CONTACT INFO, THEY KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE.
YOU'VE, YOU KNOW, ALREADY GIVEN THEM ALL THAT INFORMATION.
SO YOU, YOU BUY IT ON AMAZON 'CAUSE IT'S EASIER.
LIKE THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF, OF THIS LIKE DISTINCTION.
UM, SO MY, MY UPDATED RESOLUTION SAYS LIKE, HEY, LET'S MAKE THIS INFORMATION A WATCHABLE VIDEO INSTEAD OF A POWERPOINT THAT YOU HAVE TO CLICK THROUGH.
AND THEN TO RETAIN THE INFORMATION, JUST LIKE GIVE THE CUSTOMER A PDF LIKE A A A NOTE CARD THAT THEY CAN JUST REFERENCE WHEN THEY'RE TALKING TO A SOLAR INSTALLER OR THEIR PARTNER OR WHATEVER.
JUST GIVE THEM SOMETHING THAT HAS THE INFORMATION IN ONE PLACE.
LIKE THAT DOES NOT EXIST PRESENTLY.
SO I'M ARGUING WE'RE NOT DOING A GOOD JOB AT HOW WE'RE APPROACHING GIVING THE CONSUMER PROTECTION INFORMATION TO CONSUMERS.
I THINK THIS IS LIKE A KIND OF OBVIOUS WAY TO DO IT.
UM, THE LAST TWO ARE ON THE CONSUMER PROTECTION ACCESS, BUT VERY MUCH TRADE, REASONABLE AND RATIONAL OUTCOMES FOR CONTROL.
UM, AND, YOU KNOW, AN UPPER LIMIT ON SOLAR SIZING.
THIS IS, REMEMBER JUST FOR EVERYONE TO RECALL, IF YOU WANT MORE THAN 110% OF YOUR ANNUAL USAGE, YOU HAVE TO CALL AND GET APPROVAL FOR THAT FROM AUSTIN ENERGY.
UM, AND YOU KNOW, THERE'S TWO, TWO REASONS THIS ISN'T USEFUL.
ONE IS THAT LIKE MOST HOUSES ARE, ARE ROOF LIMITED, LIKE ROOF SPACE LIMITED.
SO IF YOU WANTED TO PUT 300% OF YOUR USAGE, YOU, IT'S LIKE A VERY SMALL CHANCE THAT YOUR HOUSE COULD EVEN SUPPORT THAT.
UM, THAT THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S THE FIRST POINT.
UM, AND THEN, UM, YOU KNOW, COULD, COULD A PERSON HAVE A BAD, COULD HAVE A BAD OUTCOME? LIKE YES, IT'S POSSIBLE, BUT TO MY EARLIER POINT, LIKE WE HAVE THE DIAL TURNED WAY TOO HIGH UP ON THIS AND WE ARE WAY TOO FAR BEHIND, UM, THE EXAMPLE OF AUSTRALIA.
AND SO TURNING THE DIAL IN THE OTHER DIRECTION ON THIS IS WHAT WE NEED TO BE PREPARED FOR.
WHAT, WHAT IS TO COME THE, THE, THE TSUNAMI I MENTIONED.
SO LASTLY, 75% TSRF, UM, APPLYING TO THREE KILOWATTS ONLY.
THIS ACTUALLY, I, I ARGUE THIS IS ACTUALLY WHAT MAKES SENSE FUNDAMENTALLY BECAUSE THE REBATE IS A FIXED REBATE.
IT'S NOT DOLLARS PER KILOWATT, IT'S JUST $2,500 PERIOD.
AND, AND IF THREE KILOWATTS IS THE NUMBER, IT'S THE MINIMUM THAT IS REQUIRED BY AUSTIN ENERGY.
YOU CAN'T HAVE A SYSTEM SMALLER THAN THAT AND STILL GET THE REBATE.
SO THEY HAVE DECIDED THAT THREE KILOWATTS IS WORTH $2,500.
IF YOU WANT TO GO BEYOND THAT, IT SHOULD BE, IT SHOULD NOT BE THE BUSINESS OF AUSTIN ENERGY.
THEY SHOULD, UM, SIMPLY ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN SO THAT WE CAN GET, SO IF A PERSON WANTS A LARGER SYSTEM, THEY DON'T HAVE ANY EXTRA RED TAPE, UM, TO DEAL WITH.
I I JUST FUNDAMENTALLY DISAGREE THAT IT'S NOT A BIG DEAL TO HAVE TO GO ASK FOR THAT INFORMATION TO GO ASK FOR THAT APPROVAL.
UM, YOU KNOW, THE, AND I, I'M, I'M RECALLING, YOU KNOW, COMMISSIONER SCHWARTZ'S QUESTION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HAVING TO, THINKING ABOUT PLAYING SILLY GAMES, LIKE I'LL UP, YOU KNOW, HEARD ABOUT A FRIEND THAT UPPED THEIR USAGE SO THAT THEY COULD GET THOSE.
I MEAN THIS IS, THIS IS SILLINESS.
LIKE IT SHOULD, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO SOMETHING THAT PUT A LARGE SYSTEM ON YOUR, ON YOUR HOUSE TO PROJECT TO YOUR FUTURE NEEDS.
LIKE IF YOU KNOW YOU'RE GETTING AN EV, UM, OR SOMETHING.
AND I JUST DON'T THINK AUSTIN ENERGY NEEDS TO BE IN THE LOOP FOR THAT.
AND, AND THIS IS ALSO LIKE HONESTLY QUITE A WEAK CONSUMER PROTECTION BECAUSE IF THEY'VE GOT THE NOTE CARD I JUST MENTIONED THAT HAS THE INFORMATION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HERE'S WHAT TSRF IS, YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE YOU ASK FOR TOTAL SOLAR RESOURCE FRACTION FROM YOUR INSTALLER.
LIKE IF A PERSON IS ARMED WITH THAT INFORMATION, THEY WILL JUST SIMPLY ASK FOR IT AND THEY'LL SAY LIKE, WAIT, HANG ON A SECOND, THIS ONE IS 4% TSRF.
LIKE, WHY DO I, I DON'T WANT A PANEL IN THE SHADE.
AUSTIN ENERGY, LIKE DOES NOT NEED TO BE IN THAT LOOP IF WE EDUCATE PEOPLE AND IT IS LIKE NOT CORRECT THAT THE OBJECTIVE IN MY OPINION, THAT THE OBJECTIVE SHOULD BE THAT WE SAVE EVERYONE.
WE WANT TO SAVE AS MANY PEOPLE AS WE CAN FROM, UM, FROM A BAD INSTALL.
BUT IF WE INSIST ON SAVING EVERY SINGLE PERSON, WE WILL STAY AT 6% SOLAR PENETRATION, UM, FOREVER.
I, I, THEY DIDN'T GET TALKED ABOUT MUCH LAST MEETING, BUT WE WE'RE ALSO REQUESTING TO ADD FOR ADD SOME CONSUMER CONSUMER PROTECTIONS.
UM, FROM THE RESOLUTION SOMEONE IS REFERENCE QUOTES, UM, YOU KNOW, IT ENABLE IT, IT GETS KEY ENABLING INFORMATION FOR SOMEONE WHO'S LOOKING FOR SOLAR.
LIKE IMAGINE IF YOU WERE LOOKING FOR SOLAR AND YOU HAD RECENT VETTED BY THE UTILITY QUOTATIONS THAT YOU COULD REFERENCE.
LIKE, OH, THE PANELS WERE THAT MUCH, THE INVERTERS WERE THIS MUCH.
OH, THEY'VE GOT A BATTERY THAT ADDED THIS MUCH UNDERSTANDING THAT
[01:30:01]
YOU CAN'T MAKE ONE OF THESE FOR EVERY SINGLE SCENARIO, BUT IF YOU MAKE A FEW OF THESE REFERENCE QUOTES, WHO WOULD NOT WANNA BE ARMED WITH THAT INFORMATION WHEN NEGOTIATING WITH SAY, UM, A, A A, UH, A SOLAR INSTALLER FOR THE PRICE OF THEIR SOLAR SYSTEM.UM, THE SECOND ONE IS I THINK QUITE SIMPLE.
THE 10 YEAR WARRANTY SPECIFICS.
I THINK IT'S JUST QUITE REASONABLE TO JUST HAVE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS FOR A 10 YEAR WARRANTY.
LIKE IT IS NOT ENOUGH TO SAY THERE SHALL BE A 10 YEAR WARRANTY.
IT MUST ALSO SAY LIKE, WHAT IS INSIDE OF THAT 10 YEAR WARRANTY? I WAS INITIALLY NOT FOR THIS, I THOUGHT I WAS ONEROUS, BUT I'VE COME AROUND BASED ON, UM, INPUT FROM MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS AND AUSTIN ENERGY.
I JUST THINK IF WE'RE GONNA DO IT WHEN YOU DO IT RIGHT.
UM, AND THEN I'M GONNA SKIP THE LAST, SINCE I ACTUALLY TALKED ABOUT IT ON THE LAST, LAST SLIDE.
OKAY, SO LET'S TALK ABOUT ELECTRICAL SAFETY.
UM, THIS WAS THE SECOND POINT BROUGHT UP IN MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS.
SO FIRST IT'S WORTH DEFINING LIKE EXACTLY WHAT AND WHO IS AT AT RISK HERE.
SO THERE'S AN OLD SAYING THAT SAYS THE CONVERSATION CAN BE SHUT DOWN AS SOON AS ANYBODY BRINGS UP THE WORD SAFETY.
UM, AND UH, AND YOU KNOW, SAY THAT'S UNSAFE AND THE CONVERSATION IS OVER.
LIKE, THIS IS TOO BINARY OF A VIEWPOINT.
WE NEED TO HAVE A MORE NUANCED CONVERSATION ABOUT SAFETY OR WE WILL CONTINUE TO NOT BE PREPARED AND HAVE LOW SOLAR PENETRATION.
SO LET'S DISCUSS IT IN EXPLICIT TERMS. SO THERE'S TWO PARTIES WHOSE SAFETY IS PUT IN THEORY AT RISK BY A PV SYSTEM.
THERE IS THE HOMEOWNER AND THERE IS THE LINE WORKERS, UM, UTILITY, UTILITY LINE WORKERS.
SO THERE'S ONE MAJOR PROTECTION FOR LINE WORKERS AND THAT IS THE FIRST TWO LAYERS OF THE BOTTOM OF THE STACK.
THE NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE REQUIRES THAT LISTED EQUIPMENT BE INSTALLED.
AND UM, THE UL LISTING FOR SOLAR INVERTERS IS CALLED UL 1741, WHICH CALLS THE GRID CODE STANDARD IEEE 1547.
SO THESE STANDARDS REQUIRE EXTENSIVE DESIGN, AUDIT OF THE EQUIPMENT AND IMPARTIAL THIRD PARTY TESTING OF THE EQUIPMENT TO HAVE A FUNCTION CALLED ANTI ISLANDING, WHICH BASICALLY MEANS THAT IT HAS TO DETECT WHENEVER THE GRID GOES OUT WITHIN A FEW SECONDS AND SHUT DOWN.
SO THIS IS VERY MUCH ALREADY TESTED BY THE MANUFACTURERS VERIFIED BY A NATIONAL RESOURCE TEST, NATIONALLY RECOGNIZED TEST LAB.
UM, AND THERE'S AN ADDITIONAL LAYER I DIDN'T SHOW HERE, WHICH IS CALLED RAPID SHUTDOWN, WHICH IS REQUIRED BY CODE, THE NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE SECTION SIX 90 POINT 12, UM, AND GIVES FIRST RESPONDERS AND LINE WORKERS AN EASILY IDENTIFY WAY TO TURN OFF SOLAR SYSTEM FROM, FROM RIGHT AT THE HOUSE.
SO YOU CAN TURN IT OFF WITH THE BIG RED SWITCH, BUT EVEN IF YOU DON'T AND THE POWER IS DOWN, THE SOLAR INVERTER OR BATTERY INVERTER HAS TO RECOGNIZE WITHIN SECONDS THAT THE POWER IS DOWN AND HAS TO STOP OUTPUTTING.
THESE ARE LAYERS OF SAFETY THAT AUSTIN ENERGY DOES NOT HAVE TO CHECK BECAUSE THEY ARE REQUIRED BY CODE AND THE, AND THE STANDARDS WHICH MUST BE APPLIED SUCH, SUCH THAT YOUR INVERTER CAN BE LISTED, UM, TO BE INSTALLED.
ALRIGHT, NOW ONTO HOMEOWNER SAFETY.
SO THERE'S A COUPLE OF IMPORTANT POINTS TO MAKE HERE.
FIRST, THERE'S FIVE LAYERS OF SAFETY HERE.
KEEPING YOUR HOUSE FROM BURNING DOWN FROM AN ELECTRICAL FIRE.
UM, THEY EXIST, THEY'RE IN PLAY AND I'M NOT REDUCING THEM WITH THEIR, WITH THE RESOLUTION.
UM, THE BASE AND BY, AND BY FAR MOST IMPORTANT LAYER IS, IS THE NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE WRITTEN BY, UM, NATIONAL FIRE PROTECTION ASSOCIATION ADOPTED BY THE STATE OF TEXAS, IMPLEMENTED BY ELECTRICIANS AND ENFORCED BY TDLR.
IT IS COMPREHENSIVE AND AUSTIN ENERGY HAVE AN ENTIRE DESIGN CRITERIA MANUAL DOESN'T ADD ANY SAFETY TO THIS.
YOU ARE NOT DEPENDING ON AUSTIN ENERGY DESIGN CRITERIA.
MANUAL FOR SAFETY LIKE THAT IS VERY MUCH COVERED ALREADY BY NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE.
UM, THE NEXT LAYER IS THE COMPLIANCE CERTIFICATIONS THAT THE EQUIPMENT HAS TO MEET.
SO AS A PERSON THAT DESIGNS EQUIPMENT TO MEET THESE STANDARDS, I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT THEY ARE COMPREHENSIVE AND FOCUSED IN NO SMALL PART ON SAFETY.
THESE REQUIREMENTS AND TESTS ARE THE THING, KEEPING YOUR HOUSE SAFE, NOT THE INSTALLATION OR INSPECTIONS.
FLAMMABILITY RATINGS OF PLASTICS, ANTI ISLANDING FAILURE MODES ANALYSIS IS LIKE ALL EXTREMELY THOROUGH.
AND THE DESIGN SPACE IS HIGHLY CONSTRAINED, ALL IN THE NAME OF SAFETY.
THE HEAVY LIFTING IS, IS DONE HERE.
AND IN INSPECTIONS IN GENERAL ARE FAMOUSLY INEFFECTIVE AT FINDING PROBLEMS. IT'S COMMONLY CITED IN THE AUTO MANUFACTURING INDUSTRY THAT IF YOU WANT A VISUAL INSPECTION TO CATCH A PROBLEM, YOU NEED FOUR PEOPLE TO LOOK AT THE CAR AT FOUR SEPARATE OCCASIONS TO ACHIEVE A 99% CHANCE OF CATCHING THAT PROBLEM.
SAFETY IS SOLVED IN SYSTEM DESIGN AND COMPLIANCE IS THE THING THAT ENFORCES THAT.
UM, NOW THE NEXT TWO GO TOGETHER.
SO THE MASTER ELECTRICIAN IS A TERM THAT HAS A VERY SPECIFIC MEANING.
TDLR, THE TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF LICENSING AND REGULATION IS THE, IS THE BODY THAT DEFINES THAT TERM.
AND IT MEANS YOU HAVE TO HAVE HAD ABOUT 12,000 HOURS, SIX YEARS PASS A DIFFICULT TEST TO BE UM, IN, IN THIS
[01:35:01]
IS THESE ARE, THESE ARE HOURS UNDER THE GUISE OF THE GUIDANCE OF ANOTHER, UH, MASTER ELECTRICIAN.SO ELECTRICAL WIRING IS SOMETHING THAT IS MANUAL, CAN BE DONE WRONG AND IS IN GENERAL NOT COMPLETELY INSPECTED.
IT WOULD BE IMPRACTICAL TO DO SO.
SO SELECTING THE WRONG WIRE OR LUG IS ALL IT TAKES TO CREATE AN OVERHEATING CONDITION AND IS THE EXTENSIVE TRAINING OF THESE FOLKS AND NOT JUST ANYONE THAT CAN GO TO HOME DEPOT TO BUY SUPPLIES, WHICH, WHICH KEEPS THE HOUSE SAFE.
SO AUSTIN ENERGY RIGHTLY REQUIRES, THIS IS QUITE AN IMPORTANT POINT.
AUSTIN ENERGY REQUIRES A PERMIT FOR INSTALLATION OF A SOLAR SYSTEM, AND THIS PERMIT CAN ONLY BE PULLED BY A PERSON WHO HAS A MASTER'S ELECTRICIAN LICENSE.
UM, SO THAT IS HOW THIS IS EFFECTIVELY ENFORCED.
IT'S NOT THE INSPECTION IS IT LIKE TO, TO HAVE PV AUSTIN YOU WANNA TURN ON WITH AUSTIN ENERGY, YOU HAVE TO HAVE, UH, A PERMIT.
PERMIT CAN ONLY ONLY BE PULLED BY THE MASTER'S ELECTRICIAN.
TDLR CONTROLS THE EFFECTIVENESS OF MASTER ELECTRICIANS AND WE COUNT ON THEM FOR ALL OF OUR ELECTRICAL SAFETY IN OUR HOMES.
UM, 'CAUSE IT MAY BE OBVIOUS, BUT LIKE AUSTIN ENERGY DOES NOT INSPECT ALL OF THE ELECTRICAL WIRING IN YOUR HOME.
THEY ONLY HAVE PURVIEW OVER A SOLAR SYSTEM IF IT GETS ADDED.
UM, YEAH, ALSO IMPORTANT TO MENTION IS THAT LIKE THIS IS THE LIABILITY LAYER.
THE MA MASTER ELECTRICIAN IS THE LI LIABILITY LAYER.
AUSTIN ENERGY DOES NOT PICK UP ANY LIABILITY BY WITNESSING AN INSPECTION.
IT STILL RESTS WITH THE INSTALLER, THE MASTER ELECTRICIAN.
THEY'RE THE ONES SIGNING THEIR NAMES THAT THE, THAT THE SYSTEM IS SAFE.
THE FINAL LAYER OF SAFETY ON TOP OMITTED ENTIRELY BY SOME, UM, SOME LOCATIONS IS WHERE THE MODIFICATION OF THE RESOLUTION IS.
AND IT'S TO CONVERT INSPECTIONS TO VIRTUAL IN THE NAME OF REDUCING FRICTION AND INCREASING INSTALL EFFICIENCY AND LOWERING COSTS.
LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT NEXT, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.
SO I I, I WISH I HAD TIME TO LIKE GO TO MY SYSTEM AND DO A VIRTUAL SOLAR
DIDN'T HAVE TIME, NOT ENOUGH FLIGHT.
UM, BUT THIS IS THE NEXT BEST THING I THINK OF.
I, I ACTUALLY CANNOT THINK OF ANYTHING THAT COULD NOT BE EFFECTIVELY CHECKED BY A VIDEO INSTALLATION SAYS YOU PUT THE GOPRO HAT ON AND YOU GO AND YOU DO, YOU TUG ON WIRES, YOU CAN TORQUE A, UM, YOU CAN GET A TORQUE WRENCH AND, AND TORQUE A, UM, A A LUG.
YOU CAN INSPECT WIRE SIZES, YOU CAN INSPECT WIRE LUG LOCATIONS.
UM, YOU CAN GET ON THE ROOF, LOOK UNDER THE PANELS AND INSPECT FOR WIRES TOUCHING THE ROOF.
LIKE ALL OF THIS COULD CERTAINLY BE DONE ASYNCHRONOUSLY IN A VIDEO, UM, INSPECTION.
SO, LIKE MY, MY QUESTION, YOU KNOW, THAT I'M SORT OF LEFT WITH HERE IS LIKE, WHY, YOU KNOW, WHY NOT? THIS MAKES THE INSPECTION TIME ZERO.
YOU CAN INSPECT WAY MORE HOUSES IN A DAY.
'CAUSE ALL IT IS IS GOING THROUGH, THROUGH VIDEO.
THE INSTALLER DOESN'T HAVE TO LIKE SCHEDULE AN INSTALL AN INSTALLATION INSPECTION TWO WEEKS IN THE FUTURE.
IT ALLOWS THEM TO MOVE FASTER.
THIS IS JUST ALL STUFF THAT I AM ARGUING IS, IS COMMON SENSE.
AND IF WE DO A GOOD JOB AT IMPLEMENTING IT, UM, WE WILL, UM, YOU KNOW, I'LL BE ON OUR WAY TO THREE 5% SOLAR PENETRATION BEFORE WE KNOW IT.
SO MY ARGUMENT HERE IS THAT THIS GROUP HAS A MORAL IMPERATIVE TO BE A BALANCE TO AUSTIN ENERGY IN THIS CASE.
SO WE ARE SET UP TO HAVE A DIFFERENT POSITION TO AUSTIN ENERGY ON PURPOSE.
IT'S OUR DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES, NOT THE, UM, GOODNESS IS THE WRONG WORD.
THIS IS LIKE NOT THE RIGHTNESS OF THE PEOPLE WITHIN THE TWO GROUPS THAT MAKES IT A HEALTHY BALANCE.
LIKE AUSTIN ENERGY HAS THEIR POSITION, THEY, I THINK THEIR POSITION IS LIKE CORRECT GIVEN THEIR PERSPECTIVE.
THEY HEAR THEIR CONSUMERS WHEN THEIR CUSTOMERS, WHEN SOMEONE CALLS BECAUSE THEY HAD A BAD EXPERIENCE LIKE RICHARD AND TIM, THE TEAM.
LIKE THEY FEEL THAT, AND THAT IS, THAT MATTERS.
I'M SIMPLY POINTING OUT THAT WE ARE NOT WHERE WE NEED TO BE ON SOLAR PENETRATION.
AND IT IS OUR JOB IN THIS COMMISSION TO REPRESENT THE OTHER PERSPECTIVE, THE PERSPECTIVE OF LIKE, WE NEED TO BE DOING BETTER, WE NEED MORE SOLAR TO BE PREPARED.
WE WANT TO, WE WANT AUSTIN, I WANT AUSTIN TO BE A CITY THAT SHOWS OTHER CITIES HOW, HOW TO DO THIS.
UM, AND I THINK WITHOUT THE EXISTENCE PROOF OF AUSTRALIA, I'D BE HAVING A REALLY HARD TIME CONVINCING YOU GUYS.
BUT I THINK THAT IS THE, LIKE, THE KEY IN THE ARGUMENT.
UM, AND I THANK YOU FOR YOUR, YOUR TIME.
THAT CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION.
I'LL YIELD BACK TO YOU VICE CHAIR.
UM, I'M GONNA, I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS FOR HALF A SECOND AND IT SEEMS TO ME THAT PERHAPS THE BEST WAY TO GO FORWARD IS TO TAKE QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS FROM COMMISSIONERS FIRST AND THEN ASK STAFF, UH, TIM HARVEY AND HIS ASSOCIATE, UH, TO UH, UH, BRING THEIR COMMENTS.
[01:40:03]
AND WITH THAT, UH, I WOULD LIKE TO, UM, OPEN CALL FOR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS.UH, COMMISSIONER LUKI, UM, REGARDING AUSTRALIA, UH, ARE THEY DOING, UM, SOME KIND OF MARKETING THERE DIFFERENT THAN HERE THAT GETS THAT 35% PENETRATION? MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE DIFFERENCE IS IT IS ALL AROUND EASE OF E EASE OF INSTALLATION AND RED TAPE REDUCTION.
SO YOU CAN GET THE PERMIT IN FIVE SECONDS ON YOUR PHONE, ON THE WEBSITE, LIKE THAT, THAT LEVEL OF RED TAPE REDUCTION.
AND THEN, UM, YEAH, BUT THERE'S NO, LIKE, WE HAVE WAY BETTER SOLAR REBATES HERE.
THERE ARE LIKE, NO, AS FAR I'M NOT, I WANNA BE CLEAR, I'M NOT AN AUSTRALIA SOLAR EXPERT.
I'D LIKE TO BE, MAYBE I'LL GET TO GO AT SOME POINT AND BECOME THAT.
BUT, UM, TO MY UNDERSTANDING, THEY GET A REDUCTION IN THEIR BILL, UM, AS THE INCENTIVE.
IT'S NOT QUITE AS STRONG AS WHAT WE GET HERE.
WE HAVE 30% COST REDUCTION COST TAKEN OFF FROM THE INFLATION REDUCTION ACT.
AUSTIN ENERGY HAS 2,500 BUCKS, SO WE'RE IN A BETTER SPOT FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE.
BUT YEAH, IT'S, THE LABOR COSTS ARE SIMILAR.
IT IS JUST THE, THE SOFT COSTS ARE LOWER, BASICALLY COSTS LOWER TO RUN A SOLAR BUSINESS BECAUSE IT IS THE SAME TO INSTALL, INSTALL EVERYWHERE.
UM, YOU DON'T HAVE DIFFERENT RULES IN DIFFERENT MUNICIPALITIES.
MY UNDERSTANDING IS LIKE, THAT IS REALLY THE KILLER THAT YOU, IF YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW DIFFERENT RULES IN DIFFERENT AREAS, THAT MAKES, MAKES FOLKS, YOU KNOW, NOT WANT TO, I'VE SPOKEN TO ELECTRICIANS THAT ARE LIKE, I, I DON'T INSTALL IN AUSTIN ENERGY BECAUSE THEY'RE TOO, TOO CHALLENGING TO DEAL WITH.
OTHER, OTHER MUNICIPALITIES ARE EASIER.
SO THIS IS LIKE, IT'S IT'S LESS COMPETITION THAN THERE SHOULD BE.
AND THEY, UH, IN AUSTRALIA, THEY'RE, THEY'RE DOING, UH, INSPECTIONS ON, ON THEIR PHONES.
IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? THAT ONE, I HAVE NOT FOUND EXACTLY HOW THEY DO IT.
THERE ARE, UM, VIDEO AND PICTURE INSPECTIONS IN OTHER PARTS OF TEXAS THOUGH.
LIKE THIS IS WHERE WE WOULDN'T BE THE FIRST TO DO, UH, INSPECTIONS.
AND A LOT OF MUNICIPALITIES DO LIKE NO INSPECTION AT ALL FOR SOLARS.
WELL, YEAH, AND TO BE CLEAR, I'M NOT SAYING NO INSPECTION, SO I'M NOT ON TEAM, NO INSPECTIONS, I'M ON TEAM BETTER INSPECTIONS, FASTER INSPECTIONS THAT GET THE SAME RESULT, RIGHT? WELL, UM, I, I FIRMLY BELIEVE IN SOMEBODY STANDING THERE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT IT AS AN INSPECTION ITEM.
AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS THE HUMAN ERROR ON, ON THE, ON THE PART OF, YOU KNOW, A TEAM GOING IN AND DOING AN INSTALLATION.
THERE IS THE POTENTIAL FOR HUMAN ERROR.
WE, I, I KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE OF INSTALLING THESE SYSTEMS THAT WE DO GO THROUGH THEM PRETTY METICULOUSLY, BUT THERE ARE, UH, A A THOUSAND MISTAKES YOU CAN MISTAKE, YOU CAN DO.
SO THE THE, UH, THE ON ONSITE INSPECTION SEEMS TO ME TO BE, UM, THE THING THAT ME AS AN INSTALLER WOULD, WOULD, UH, WOULD REQUIRE HAVING SEEN MISTAKES MADE, PUT IT THAT WAY.
UM, THAT, THAT, THAT'S WHERE I HAVE, UH, ONE PROBLEM WITH, WITH, UH, WITH WHAT YOU'RE RECOMMENDING.
I, I CAN SEE HOW SOMEBODY WHO'S GOT A BIT OF TRAINING AND UNDERSTANDS HOW TO DO IT, A HOMEOWNER CAN, CAN, CAN GO AROUND AND, AND, AND, UH, PERFORM THOSE DUTIES OF PULLING WIRES AND CHECKING THOSE THINGS.
BUT I, I WOULD SAY THAT THE, THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE THESE INSTALLED HAVE NO ABILITY TO DO ANY OF THAT.
UM, IT IS, UH, OVERWHELMING FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE TO EVEN CONSIDER LOOKING AT SOMETHING AS COMPLEX AS ONE OF THOSE SYSTEMS TO ACTUALLY EVEN KNOW WHERE TO START.
CAN, CAN I ADD A LITTLE BIT MAYBE I, I DIDN'T REALLY PAINT MY, THE PICTURE OF MY ACTUAL VISION FOR WHAT THIS WOULD BE.
SO RIGHT NOW, AUSTIN ENERGY REQUIRES THAT THE MASTER ELECTRICIAN BE ON SITE FOR THE, THE INSPECTION.
AND I THINK IT SHOULD BE NO DIFFERENT FOR THE VIDEO INSPECTION.
SO YOU DON'T NEED THE HOMEOWNER OR EVEN THE, LIKE THE GUY WHO GETS PAID THE LEAST, YOU KNOW, TO AND DOESN'T KNOW AND, AND KNOWS THE LEAST ABOUT THE SYSTEM TO DO THE INSPECTION.
I THINK THIS SHOULD BE LIKE, SHOULD BE THE MASTER, UM, TO DO THE PULLING ON THE WIRES, CHECKING THE VOLTAGES, DO DO ALL OF THAT.
LIKE WITH THE VIDEO JUST FILMING THE WHOLE THING, IT'S A THREE MINUTE VIDEO, IT GETS SENT TO AUSTIN ENERGY.
UM, YEAH, IF, IF YOU CAN THINK OF ANYTHING THAT LIKE YOU COULDN'T REPRESENT BY HAVING THE LIKE MASTER ELECTRICIAN, WHO'S THE MOST COMPETENT PERSON AVAILABLE TO, TO DO THE WORK? UM, ANYTHING THEY COULDN'T REPRESENT ON A VIDEO AND SEND TO THE AUSTIN ENERGY TEAM.
UM, YEAH, LIKE I'D LOVE TO KNOW WHAT, UH, WHAT IT IS.
'CAUSE I'M HAPPY TO YIELD ON THIS FOR, FOR A REASON THAT IT'S LIKE, OH NO, YOU REALLY WOULD HAVE TO BE IN PERSON TO DO THAT.
[01:45:01]
BUT VIDEO PLUS MASTER ELECTRICIAN, THAT'S MY VISION.YEAH, SOME SOMEBODY KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE DOING.
HAS TO, HAS HAS TO BE IN CHARGE OF THAT FOR SURE.
UH, UH, NO, NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.
COMM UH, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN, THANK YOU.
UM, THANK YOU FOR THIS VERY INFORMATIVE EXPANSION ON THE PROPOSAL.
I DO HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS AND CONCERNS THAT REFLECT TWO VERY GOOD POINTS THAT MR. HARVEY MADE WHEN WE DISCUSSED THIS LAST MONTH.
WHENEVER, WHENEVER YOU WERE OFF IN CHINA HAVING A BIG OLD TIME, WE WERE SITTING IN THIS ROOM TALKING ABOUT THIS PROPOSAL AND UM, MR. HARVEY MADE TWO POINTS THAT I THINK ARE IMPORTANT TO NOTE.
ONE OF THEM WITH RESPECT TO CONSUMER PROTECTION ON ITEM B.
UM, WITH RESPECT TO THE REFERENCE SOLAR BENCHMARK COST ESTIMATES, I'M WRESTLING WITH THIS BECAUSE TIM MADE THE VERY IMPORTANT POINT THAT BENCHMARK COSTS TURN OUT TO BE FLOORS RATHER THAN IS IT ALL, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU SAY IT'S GONNA COST ABOUT THIS, EVERYBODY WHO'S GONNA BID IS GONNA BID THAT.
SO THE LIKELIHOOD OF GETTING COMPETITION WHEN WE HAVE THOSE BENCHMARK COSTS OUT STRIKES ME AS SOMETHING THAT IS PROBLEMATIC.
AND I DON'T KNOW HOW TO FIND A WAY TO INFORM CUSTOMERS ABOUT APPROPRIATE COSTS WITHOUT RUNNING INTO THAT TRAP.
I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER, BUT I'M RAISING IT AS A QUESTION BECAUSE I THINK OUR ORIGINAL PROPOSAL ABOUT BENCHMARK COSTS WAS NOT, THANKS TO TIM'S IMPORTANT WARNING, WE NEED TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING BETTER AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS.
SO I THINK THAT IN PARTICULAR NEEDS MORE WORK AND I DON'T, AGAIN, I DUNNO WHAT THE ANSWER IS, BUT, BUT THIS IS PROBABLY NOT THE RIGHT ONE.
THE SECOND THING, UM, I'D LOVE YOUR ADDITION BY THE WAY OF, OF HERE'S A REFERENCE CARD OF KEY POINTS FOR, UM, KEY KEY POINTS FOR THE, THE NEGOTIATION AND THE, WHEN YOU SIZE YOUR SYSTEM, THINK ABOUT THIS.
THAT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE ORIGINALLY DEVELOPED AND I THINK IT'S A GREAT ADDITION, THANK YOU.
AND, AND WE'LL MAKE THE CONSUMER BETTER INFORMED TO HAVE THAT SHORTCUT AVAILABLE ONLINE AND ON HAND AS THEY GO THROUGH THE CONVERSATION.
THE OTHER POINT THAT MR. HARVEY MADE THAT, THAT STRUCK ME AS SUPER IMPORTANT, GOES TO THIS ISSUE OF, OF INSPECTIONS AND WHETHER THEY SHOULD BE IN PERSON.
UM, TIM POINTED OUT THAT A LOT OF THE ONSITE PHYSICAL ONSITE INSPECTIONS ARE VALUABLE, PARTICULARLY BECAUSE THERE IS SUCH TURNOVER IN THE INSTALLER BASE OF, OF THE PEOPLE WHO DO PV INSTALLATIONS.
AND ONE OF THE VALUES OF IN-PERSON INSPECTION IS THAT THE INSPECTOR IS CATCHING THE ISSUES IMMEDIATELY AND ESSENTIALLY USING THE INSPECTION AS A WAY TO TRAIN THE INSTALLER.
AM I REPRESENTING THAT RIGHT? TIM'S NODDING.
UM, I DON'T WANT US TO DROP THE IDEA OF THE ONLINE INSPECTIONS.
I LOVE YOUR, YOUR YOUR, YOU SWITCHING THIS FROM JUST PHOTOS TO A VIDEO.
I THINK THAT'S A SUPER ADDITION AND MODIFICATION, BUT I DO THINK IT WOULD BE VALUABLE AND IMPORTANT FOR US TO MAINTAIN SOME MINIMUM AMOUNT OF IN-PERSON INSPECTION, PARTICULARLY AS A, UM, TO FULFILL THAT TRAINING PURPOSE, TO FULFILL THE, UM, DON'T GET CONNED PURPOSE.
I MEAN, THERE COULD BES SCUM BUCKETS OUT THERE WHO WANNA SEND YOU A VIDEO OF A DIFFERENT INSTALLATION.
SO I, I THINK WE SHOULD PROBABLY MODIFY THIS TO COME UP WITH SOME MINIMUM NUMBER.
YES, LET'S TRY TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE VIDEO SUBMISSION IDEA, BUT LET'S ALSO CONSIDER SOMETHING LIKE A THIRD OF INSPECTIONS POTENTIALLY AT RANDOM AND OR SCHEDULED SHOULD BE, MUST BE IN PERSON AND SYNCHRONOUS RATHER THAN THE ASYNCHRONOUS ONLINE INSPECTION SO THAT WE PERFORM BOTH THE CUSTOMER PROTECTION FUNCTION AND THE WORKFORCE TRAINING FUNCTION THAT IS SO VALUABLE FROM THESE INSPECTION EFFORTS.
IS IT, IS IT OKAY IF I ADDRESS THE QUESTIONS? OH, OF COURSE.
GREAT POINTS, BOTH, UM, FOR THE FIRST POINT, UM, REFERENCE SOLAR BENCHMARKS SIMPLY SUSTAINED YOUR FEEDBACK.
I THINK WE CAN COME UP WITH LIKE A MORE CLEVER WAY TO GET THE INFORMATION ACROSS.
[01:50:01]
A COMPLETE QUOTE THAT IS LIKE, YOUR INSTALL SHOULD BE THREE BUCKS PER WATT, I THINK WOULD MAKE THAT A FLOOR.WHAT I'M AFTER HERE THAT I THINK WOULD MOVE US TOWARDS AUSTRALIA IS HOW DO WE LIKE PEEL BACK THE INFORMATION, PEEL, PEEL, PEEL.
WHAT'S THE, WHAT'S THE ANALOGY I'M LOOKING FOR HERE? LIKE, WE WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE LIKE MORE VISIBILITY INTO LIKE WHAT IS UNDER THE HOOD OF THE QUOTE.
'CAUSE I THINK IT'S QUITE EASY TO LIKE HIDE COSTS IN, UM, IN PRODUCT PRICE MARKUP OVERHEAD.
SO I THINK IF PEOPLE HAD REFERENCE QUOTES FOR LIKE, HERE'S HOW MUCH PANELS SHOULD COST, HERE'S HOW MUCH AN INVERTER SHOULD COST WIRING, SOME CONSUMERS MAYBE NOT ALL, I THINK WOULD BE ABLE TO LIKE, USE THAT INFORMATION TO DEDUCE LIKE, AM I GETTING A DECENT DEAL FROM THIS INSTALLER OR ARE THEY OVERCHARGING ME OR ARE THEY HIDING COSTS SOMEWHERE? UM, THAT'S THE OBJECTIVE.
AND, AND I TOTALLY DON'T WANNA FALL INTO THE LIKE, PITFALL OF CREATING A PRICE FLOOR, SO I'M JUST, THIS IS ALL TO SAY LIKE, I'M COMMITTED TO LIKE FIGURE OUT SOMETHING BETTER THERE.
UM, THE SECOND ONE, UH, I, YEAH, I I ALSO JUST KIND OF AGREE, I THINK WE SHOULD KEEP SOME IN PERSON, PERHAPS THE RANDOM.
UM, SO WE, LET'S WORK ON SOMETHING THERE.
LIKE IT COMMISSIONERS, UH, COMMISSIONER SCHWARTZ.
UM, UH, I GUESS TIM WILL CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT I THINK THAT THE, IT WASN'T REALLY A BENCHMARK THAT WAS PROVIDED IN THE PAST.
I THINK THE COMMENT WAS THAT IT WAS A STEALING THAT THEY SET UP FOR $4 A WATT.
UH, SO IT, IT'S, THAT'S NOT THE SAME THING, RIGHT? AS SAYING THIS IS WHAT AN AVERAGE SOLAR INSTALL COSTS.
IF THE INFORMATION WAS PRESENTED TO THE CONSUMER IN THAT WAY, IT PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE THE, THE SAME EFFECT OF HAVING EVERY INSTALLER PRICE IT THE SAME WAY.
IF IT WAS LIKE, THIS IS WHAT, YOU KNOW, IN THE LAST 12 MONTHS OR 24 MONTHS, THIS IS WHAT YOUR NEIGHBORS PAID.
I DON'T, THAT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE IT WOULD HAVE THE SAME EFFECT.
OR MAYBE YOU COULD DO BREAKDOWNS WITH LIKE BY THE TYPE OF ROOF OR WHATEVER OTHER CONSIDERATIONS THEY WERE LOOKING AT.
IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE IT WOULD HAVE TO TURN INTO A FLOOR.
IT WAS JUST THE WAY THAT THEY HAD SET THAT UP BEFORE.
I RE-WATCHED IT, UH, EARLIER TODAY JUST TO REMEMBER WHAT WAS SAID.
UM, YEAH, AND THE ONLY OTHER THING I HAD WAS, ARE YOU SURE THAT IT WOULD COST LESS AND TAKE AWAY, UM, KIND OF, UH, STICKINESS IF YOU HAVE MASTER ELECTRICIAN HAVING TO COME OUT AT THE END AND DO LIKE AN HOUR LONG INSTALL THAN WHAT'S CURRENTLY GOING ON, WHICH I GUESS IS THAT A CITY ELECTRICAL INSPECTOR DOING THAT AT THE END? SORRY, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE INSPECTION RIGHT THERE TOWARDS THE END? YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.
SO LIKE RIGHT NOW THE MASTER ELECTRICIAN HAS TO COME OUT AT A, AT A PRESET MEETING TIME AND SIT WITH AUSTIN ENERGY FOR 15 MINUTES OR HOWEVER LONG IT TAKES.
SO IF THEY CAN DO IT ASYNCHRONOUSLY, THAT'S DEFINITELY LIKE AN, AN IMPROVEMENT.
I THINK THE POINT IS GOOD THAT LIKE YOU DON'T WANT SOMEBODY THAT DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT DOING THE VIDEO, NOW WE'RE WASTING TIME, RIGHT? SO I, I'M OPEN TO CERTAINLY IT SHOULD BE THE MASTER ELECTRICIAN BECAUSE THEY'RE THE ONE THAT HOLDS THE LIABILITY.
THEY'RE AUSTIN ENERGY'S POINT OF CONTACT.
I KIND OF THINK THAT IS THE PERSON THAT MAKES SENSE AND MAKING IT ASYNCHRONOUS.
LIKE I, I DON'T INSTALL SOLAR, BUT LIKE AS A PERSON WHO EXISTS IN THE CONTEXT OF A BUSINESS, LIKE I KNOW THAT NOT HAVING TO SCHEDULE THINGS WITH OTHERS IS A BIG DEAL.
SO I THINK IT WOULD BE QUITE WELCOME.
HAVE WE DONE, DO YOU KNOW IF WE'VE, AUSTIN HAS DONE, OR OTHER CITIES HAVE DONE ASYNCHRONOUS IN PERSON, UH, INSPECTION FOR SOLAR INSTALLS LIKE FACETIME ASYNCHRONOUS? OH, WAIT, WHAT DO YOU MEAN? UH, WELL LIKE THE, I INSPECT WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU PULL A PERMIT AND OR CLOSE OUT A PERMIT, OFTEN THE INSPECTOR WILL COME WITHOUT THE CONTRACTOR THERE JUST LOOKING AT THE WORK OR AH, YES.
UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT EXISTS FOR ELECTRICAL.
YEAH, I THINK YOU, YOU NEED PEOPLE THERE BECAUSE PART OF THE CHECKS FOR SOLAR IN PARTICULAR, PART OF THE CHECKS INVOLVE LIKE THE FUNCTIONALITY OF THE SYSTEM, RIGHT.
AND I THINK THAT, YEAH, IT'S QUITE AN IMPORTANT POINT.
HARD TO DO ASYNC OR PASSIVELY.
UH, JOE, YOU WANT IN ON THIS? YEAH, I'LL SAY SOMETHING REAL QUICK.
I JUST WANTED TO SECOND YOUR COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN THE, THE AUDIT IDEA THAT YOU HAD ON THE INSTALL INSPECTIONS.
UM, AS SOMEONE WHO LIVES IN MICROSOFT OUTLOOK CALENDARS, TRYING TO SCHEDULE THINGS ALL DAY, IT'S TERRIBLE TO TRY TO GET PEOPLE IN A TIME BLOCK, UH, AND THEN ME ALSO MAKE IT TO THAT TIME BLOCK.
UM, HOWEVER, UM, HAVING WORKED IN SAFETY DEPARTMENTS BEFORE A AUDIT PROGRAM IS A STRONG FOUNDATION FOR ANY SAFETY, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT ELECTRICAL WORK.
UM, YOU KNOW, HAVING, HAVING SOME FORM OF A RANDOM SELECTION OF, OF NOT JUST E EVERY SO OFTEN THERE WILL BE ONE WHERE WE COME IN PERSON AND DO THE INSPECTION, BUT ALSO MAYBE ONE WHERE WE WILL PULL UP THE VIDEO AND INSPECT WHAT YOU DID IN THE VIDEO INSPECTION TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT WAS TRUE.
[01:55:01]
AND NOT JUST DOING THE AUDITS AS A CHECKLIST, BUT THEN TAKING CONSTRUCTIVE, UM, CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT FROM THAT TO INFORM, YOU KNOW, UH, ADDITIONAL MAYBE MEASURES THAT NEED TO BE TAKEN TO ENSURE SAFETY OF HOMEOWNERS THAT ARE ENROLLED IN THE PROGRAM, THAT KIND OF THING.SO I JUST THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA.
I WANTED TO, TO KIND OF SECOND IT.
UH, COMMISSIONER DAVIS, YOU MAY BE THE ONLY ONE BESIDES ME THAT HAS NOT MADE A COMMENT.
I I HAVE A QUESTION, A COUPLE QUESTIONS FOR, UM, FOR, UH, AE STAFF.
UM, I HAVE, UH, THREE COMMENTS.
ONE OF 'EM IS KIND OF IN THE WEEDS, BUT YOU TALKED ABOUT A 6%, UH, PERCENTAGE RATE IN AUSTIN.
UM, THERE'S ABOUT 487,000 RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS FAR MORE THAN YOU HAVE IN YOUR NOTES HERE.
UH, WHERE DID YOU, UH, WHAT'S THE, WHAT'S THE QUESTION? WELL, UM, IT JUST, THE DENOMINATOR, UH, WHERE YOU HAVE THE, UH, AUSTRALIA MAP, UH, THE HEAT MAP, UM, AND YOU SAY THERE'S A 6% AUSTIN PENETRATION.
I, I I, UH, 10,000 OVER 487,000 IS, UH, YEAH, IT'S 1 51, 1 55 IS THE NUMBER I HAD, I WOULD FULLY ADMIT TO LIKE IMPERFECT, UH, STATISTICS HERE.
I DID TRY TO ELIMINATE LIKE, UM, APARTMENT COMPLEXES AND STUFF THAT WOULD SHOW UP AS MULTIPLE HOUSING UNITS, BUT NOT REALLY REPRESENT THAT WELL.
AND THEN, AND THEN THERE ARE HOMES TO JUST HAVE TOO MANY TREES.
SO, UH, BUT I THINK I WAS TRYING TO GET TO APPLES TO APPLES WITH SOLAR AND, AND THERE WERE LIKE HOUSES WITH SOLAR DIVIDED BY HOUSES.
SO I WAS TRYING TO GET AS CLOSE TO THAT AS POSSIBLE.
AND I, I THINK THAT YOU, AUSTIN ENERGY HAS, UH, A FAIR PROGRAM.
SO I DON'T WISH THIS COMMENT TO BE MISTAKEN, BUT I THINK YOU ARE GIVING THEM MORE CREDIT.
PERHAPS THEY CAN JUST TELL US WHAT IT IS.
UH, UH, SECOND, UM, I, I, UM, HAVE, I, I ACCEPT YOUR POINT, UH, UH, ABOUT LETTING PEOPLE MAKE THEIR OWN DECISIONS ABOUT EXPANDING, UH, THE, UH, SYSTEM FOR FUTURE NEEDS, BUT I DO THINK THEY NEED TO BE EXEMPTED FROM THE VALUE OF SOLAR RATE UNTIL SUCH TIME AS THEIR, THEIR, I DON'T WANT THEM BECOMING AN ENERGY PRODUCER, UH, UH, ON A WHOLESALE LEVEL, IF YOU'RE FOLLOWING ME.
I MEAN, I WOULDN'T VALUE THE SOLAR IS LIKE NOT SET UP TO WORK THAT WAY, RIGHT? YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T TURN A PROFIT WITH, WITH, UH, YOU CAN'T TURN A SURPLUS AT ALL.
WELL, AND IF YOU OVERPRODUCE YOU JUST GET, YOU GET CAPPED, YOU GET CAPPED AT $0 BILLS.
MAYBE THAT'S MY INCOMPLETE UNDERSTANDING, UM, WHICH I'M SURE TIM WILL EDIFY US.
I DON'T THINK IT'S POSSIBLE UNDER VALUE SOLAR AND I WOULD NOT ARGUE FOR THE ABILITY TO SET UP A SITUATION WHERE AUSTIN ENERGY HAS TO PAY THE CUSTOMER FOR THEIR E EXCESS EXCESS.
WELL, I THEN WE AGREE ON THAT, WHETHER, UH, MY UNDERSTANDING OF VALUE OF SOLAR IS CORRECT OR NOT.
UH, THE, UM, I'VE SAID THIS SEVERAL TIMES AND TIM IS GETTING SICK OF HEARING IT, BUT I WANNA SEND HIM TO AUSTRALIA AND I HAVE BROACHED THE SUBJECT WITH, BUT I'D LIKE TO COME BACK AND WE WANT YOU TO KIND AND I BROACHED THE SUBJECT WITH RICHARD GENESEE AND HE SAID IT IS JUST TOO UNCOMMON.
IT'S TOO, UH, WE DON'T SEND PEOPLE ABROAD.
UH, MR. GENESEE, YOU NEED TO SEND HIM ABROAD.
I PERSONALLY PRICED THE TICKET.
IT IS NOT AN OUTRAGEOUS PRICE.
WE HAVE A SISTER CITY, UH, ADELAIDE THAT I'M SURE WOULD LOVE TO HOST HIM.
UH, I AM NOT, I MEAN, UH, PEOPLE CAN LAUGH, BUT I AM NOT BEING COMPLETELY FACETIOUS.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A, AN INTERNATIONAL ROLE MODEL, AND I THINK, UH, HE NEEDS TO SEE IT WITH HIS OWN EYES.
I, I WANNA SUGGEST I LOVE IT BY THE WAY, AND I'M NOT LAUGHING, BUT I, I WANNA SUGGEST SOMETHING THAT I THINK MAYBE GETS AT THE
[02:00:01]
LAUGHTER, WHICH IS, IT, IT'S A BIG DEAL TO LIKE GO OVERSEAS FOR, YOU KNOW, EVERYONE HAS THEIR JOB TO DO.THIS ISN'T EXPLICITLY PART OF THE JOB.
WHAT IF WE, AND I WOULD SIT WITH TIM ON THESE CALLS, WHAT IF WE JUST SET UP CALLS WITH LIKE THE TOP, I DON'T KNOW, 20 SOLAR INSTALLERS IN AUSTRALIA AND JUST BE LIKE, TELL US EVERYTHING, YOU KNOW, HOW DOES THIS WORK? WHY IS IT EASY FOR YOU GUYS? OH, THAT'D BE BETTER THAN NOT, BUT IT'S NOT THE SAME AS BEING THERE.
IT'S A SHORTER FLIGHT THOUGH, SO I MEAN, IT MAYBE IS A PLACE, PLACE TO START.
THIS IS HONESTLY THING I'D PLANNED TO DO AND I JUST WANT TO EXTEND THE, THE INVITATION TO, TO, TO TIM TO JOIN ME.
I AM ON RECORD AGAIN, MR. GENESEE, THAT YOU, IT MAY BE A LITTLE UNCONVENTIONAL, BUT WE'RE REALLY NOT, I'M REALLY NOT ASKING FOR THE MOON HERE.
IT'S REALLY NOT THAT MUCH MONEY AND I'M SURE THE TIME WOULD BE WELL SPENT.
UM, FINALLY, UH, JUST, AND YOU KNOW THIS, BUT JUST TO REITERATE, UH, ONE OF AUSTRALIA'S SECRETS IS SUPER HIGH ELECTRIC PRICES, AND THAT'S A WHOLE OTHER CAN OF SNAKES, UH, CHANGE THE PRICING.
UH, IT KIND OF DOES BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE MORE DEMAND, YOU PUT LESS IN MARKETING.
IT IS NOT THE ONLY REASON THOUGH.
OKAY, I'M GOING TO TURN THIS, UH, TIM, IT'S YOUR TURN.
SHOULD YOU CHOOSE BEFORE TIM GETS UP? I JUST, A COUPLE OF POINTS I WANTED TO MAKE, IF I CAN CHAIR, UH, VICE CHAIR.
SO, UH, RICHARD GENESEE, VICE PRESIDENT OF CUSTOMER ENERGY SOLUTIONS WITH AUSTIN ENERGY AGAIN.
SO I I'M GLAD YOU MADE THAT LAST POINT THAT YOU DID.
UH, BECAUSE I, I'M, I WAS WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO BRING UP THE DIFFERENCE IN ELECTRICITY COSTS AS A HUGE DRIVER OF DEMAND, WHICH IS WHAT IS A STRONG CONTRIBUTING FACTOR TO, UH, SOLAR PENETRATION.
SO THE OTHER THING I WANTED TO JUST ASK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT WAS THIS, THE FRICTION THAT I HEARD, UH, REFERENCED SEVERAL TIMES IN THE PRESENTATION.
UM, UH, I I'M NOT REALLY AWARE OF WHAT THE FRICTION IS OR THE DETAIL ON THE FRICTION, SO I'D LIKE A LITTLE BIT MORE INFORMATION ON THAT.
AND WE HAVE INFORMATION, WE HAVE DATA TO THE CONTRARY IN TERMS OF THE FRICTION WE BELIEVE THAT DOESN'T EXIST ASSOCIATED WITH THE QUIZ.
UH, IT'S A HUNDRED PERCENT CUSTOMER SATISFACTION DATA THAT TIM, UH, REVIEWED LAST TIME ASSOCIATED WITH THOSE WHO TAKE THE QUIZ.
SO I'M UNCLEAR AS TO THE FRICTION THAT YOU'RE REFERENCING IS 'CAUSE IT'S CERTAINLY NOT WITH PEOPLE WHO TAKE THE QUIZ AND RETAIN THE INFORMATION AFTERWARDS AND ARE EDUCATED AGAINST THE BAD ACTORS AND THE OTHER THINGS THAT THE QUIZ ACCOMPLISHES.
SO I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF GETTING RID OF THE QUIZ IN LIEU OF A FLYER.
UM, SO I, I CAN JUST SAY THAT CATEGORICALLY, UH, AS FAR AS THE VIDEO VERSUS ON SITE, I ALSO BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE SERIOUS, UH, LAPSES THAT COULD OCCUR WITH A VIDEO ONLY.
I APPRECIATE THE COMMENT YOU MADE TO ADJUST OR AUGMENT THE RE UH, THE RECOMMENDATION TO GO FROM JUST VIDEO TO MAYBE A COMBINATION OF VIDEO AND ONSITE.
BUT TIM'S GONNA TALK ABOUT A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES OF RECENT, AS IN VERY RECENT EXAMPLES OF THINGS THAT HAPPENED WITH INSPECTORS THAT WERE LIFE SAFETY ISSUES THAT ABSOLUTELY WOULD'VE COMPROMISED SAFETY IF, IF THAT INSPECTOR HAD NOT BEEN THERE AND CAUGHT WHAT THEY CAUGHT.
AND WE ARE NOT GONNA COMPROMISE ON THAT BECAUSE PEOPLE'S LIVES ARE LITERALLY AT RISK HERE.
SO THOSE ARE THE ONLY COMMENTS I WANTED TO MAKE.
I THINK TIM SHOULD COME UP AND ADDRESS OTHER QUESTIONS.
GOOD EVENING COMMISSION, TIM HARVEY, CUSTOMER RENEWABLE SOLUTIONS.
SO THERE'S A LOT OF, UH, THINGS TO UNPACK HERE.
UM, I'LL START WITH THE INSPECTIONS.
UL LISTINGS SERVE THE PURPOSE OF ENSURING THAT THE DESIGN IS SAFE, BUT THE MANUFACTURING OF THE PRODUCT IS YOU MANUFACTURE EVERY SINGLE PRODUCT AND THERE'S A LOT OF POTENTIAL FOR, THERES TO BE, FOR THERE TO BE ERRORS IN THE MANUFACTURING.
UM, THERE IS A DEVICE THAT IS THE ISOLATION DEVICE FOR, UM, A SOLAR AND BATTERY SYSTEM.
ONE THAT'S VERY COMMONLY USED, I WON'T USE THE BRAND NAME, BUT IS VERY COMMON IN THE LAST THREE WEEKS.
WE FOUND TWO EXAMPLES OF WHERE THAT DEVICE FAILED.
NOW, THE UL WAS PROPER, THE DESIGN OF THE DEVICE
[02:05:01]
WAS FINE, BUT IT WASN'T MANUFACTURED RIGHT.AND BECAUSE IT WASN'T MANUFACTURED RIGHT, IT WOULD NOT OPEN UP IF THE, IF THE GRID WENT DOWN AND IT WOULD CONTINUE TO PUSH POWER BACK ONTO THE GRID, WHICH IS A LIFE SAFETY ISSUE FOR OUR LINE WORKERS.
TIM, DO YOU MIND IF I RESPOND TO, TO THAT WI WITH WITHOUT THE SPECIFICS OF, OF EXACTLY WHAT THAT IS? I'M, I'M GONNA GUESS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A TESLA BACKUP SWITCH, METER SOCKET ADAPTER.
AND IF THAT IS TRUE, WHICH I CAN'T IMAGINE IT ISN'T, THE BACKUP SWITCH IS, IS NOT A SAFETY DEVICE, IT IS NOT AN ANTI LANDING DEVICE.
ANTI LANDING IS ACCOMPLISHED BY THE INVERTER AND THE SAFETY CUTOFF SWITCH THAT AUSTIN ENERGY REQUIRES TO, TO INSTALL.
THE INVERTER SENSES THAT THE GRID IS DOWN.
AND THEN IT SENDS A SIGNAL TO OPEN UP THAT CONTACTOR.
DOES IT GET A SIGNAL BACK TO IT DOES TO ENSURE THAT THE CONTACTOR WAS OPENED? IT DOES.
ARE YOU SURE? YES, I AM SURE THAT SAID, AND ANTI ISLANDING RESTS ON TOP OF THAT AS WELL.
SO LIKE IF THE, UM, INVERTER SEES THAT THE GRID, IT, IT UNDERSTANDS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LIKE THE, THE, THE, IT'S, IT, IT'S VOLTAGE SOURCE AND THE, THE GRID.
SO IF IT SEES, IT'S LIKE, HEY, I'M, I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE HERE, I CAN SENSE THAT THE GRID IS THERE, IT SHUTS OFF.
THAT'S HOW THE ANTI ISLANDING PROCESS WORKS.
IT IS ENTIRELY ELECTRONIC, IT HAS NO MOVING PARTS.
IT SIMPLY LIKE TURNS OFF THE INVERTER.
SO EVEN IF THE BACKUP SWITCH HAD FAILED, AND EVEN IF IT DIDN'T HAVE FEEDBACK, IT STILL IS SENSING FOR ANTI ISLANDING.
AND WE DID PUT IN PART C OF THE INSPECTION PROPOSAL TO HAVE A VIRTUAL SIMULATED TEST TO SHOW THAT THE ENTIRE SYSTEM IS OPERATING CORRECTLY.
AND THAT TEST SHOULD BE, I'M NOT ARGUING WITH YOU ABOUT, YES, THIS IS AN IMPORTANT PROBLEM, BUT THE PURPOSE OF INCLUDING THAT ONLINE COMMISSIONING TEST WAS TO INCLUDE A SIMULATION TO DETERMINE JU TO, TO, TO ACTUALLY SAY, YOU KNOW, VIRTUALLY THE GRID IS DOWN, ARE YOU GONNA BEHAVE PROPERLY? SO ALL OF THE DIFFERENT BEHAVIORAL USE CASES SHOULD BE TESTED BY SUCH AN ONLINE COMMISSIONING TEST.
WE TRIED TO ANTICIPATE IT WITH THIS ONLINE PROVISION, UH, YEAH, WHICH WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, DIFFICULT TO IMPLEMENT, BUT THAT WAS ITS GOAL.
THIS IS JUST PROCEDURAL, IT'S PROBABLY ABOUT EIGHT 11.
AND IN THE INTEREST OF EVERYBODY'S, UH, TIME, I'M GONNA MAKE THE SUGGESTION THAT WE GO NO LONGER THAN 8 45 TONIGHT.
UH, THIS BACK AND FORTH 30 I, OKAY.
UH, SO WE'LL SHUT UP AND LET TIM TALK.
UH, I, I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT I'M GONNA CALL THIS AT EIGHT FORTY FIVE, UH, IF, UH, THE, THE EXCHANGE IS VERY HEALTHY AND NEEDS TO HAPPEN.
OKAY, NOW I'M GOING TO TURN IT BACK TO, UH, THE DEBATERS.
SO A COUPLE MORE THINGS ABOUT, FOR VIRTUAL INSPECTIONS.
YOU KNOW, OUR GUYS GO OUT THERE WITH A TRAINED EYE.
THEY GO THROUGH A COURSE OF, UM, THE INSPECTION.
YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY DEVELOP A SYSTEM FOR THAT TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE NOT MISSING ANYTHING.
LIKE TO TRAIN SOMEONE TO DO THAT WITH A CAMERA AND SUBMIT A VIDEO WOULD BE, UM, IT, IT JUST WOULDN'T BE PRACTICAL OR POSSIBLE.
UM, YOU KNOW, MY INSPECTORS HAVE WENT THROUGH YEARS AND YEARS OF TRAINING AND THEY'RE ALL MASTER ELECTRICIANS AND, YOU KNOW, SO THAT SAID, UM, I HEARD THE COMMENT THAT WE REQUIRED MASTER ELECTRICIANS AT THE FINAL INSPECTION.
THAT'S NOT TRUE FOR RESIDENTIAL.
UM, WE DO REQUIRE THAT THERE BE AT LEAST A, A, UM, JOURNEYMAN ON SITE.
AND THE REASON THAT WE DO THAT IS BECAUSE A LOT OF TIMES WE FIND ISSUES, IN FACT, HOW MOST OF THE MAJORITY OF THE TIME WE FIND ISSUES ON SITE AND WE ALLOW THEM TO CORRECT THEM WHILE WE'RE AT THE INSPECTION.
SO WE CAN, THEY CAN DO THE CORRECTION, WE CAN VERIFY THAT IT HAS BEEN CORRECTED.
THEY LEARN DURING THE PROCESS AND IT, WE END UP WITH A SAFER SYSTEM.
TIM, YOU MIND IF I RESPOND TO THAT BEFORE WE GO FOR IT? MOVE ON.
I, I, I, I GUESS I'M JUST LIKE FUNDAMENTALLY IN OPPOSITION TO THAT CLAIM THAT IT CAN'T BE DONE VIRTUALLY.
[02:10:01]
IT IS MERELY LOOKING AT A SYSTEM, INSPECTING WIRES, INSPECTING TORQUES, LOOKING UNDER PANELS, LIKE ALL OF THESE CAN BE DONE THROUGH THE, THE EYES OF A, OF A CAMERA.I TAKE YOUR POINT ON MASTER ELECTRICIAN AS MY MISUNDERSTANDING.
THAT'S JUST WHAT I WAS TOLD DURING MY INSPECTION.
I MIGHT EVEN BE MISREMEMBERING.
IT DOESN'T, DOESN'T MATTER WHATEVER REQUIREMENTS YOU HAVE THERE.
A COMPETENT PERSON NEEDS TO BE THERE HOLDING THE CAMERA, KNOWING WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT.
AND I THINK IF THAT DATA MAKES IT TO AUSTIN ENERGY, I, I HAVE A LOT OF FAITH IN STEWART AND CHALEN THAT THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO, TO LOOK AT A VIDEO AND KNOW I'M LOOKING AT A GOOD ONE OR I SEE A PROBLEM, BUT THEY DON'T SHARE THE FAITH BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT THE CONTRACTOR'S GOING TO SHOW THEM WHAT THEY WANT TO, WHAT THEY WANT THEM TO SEE.
BUT, BUT IF, IF THERE'S A PRESCRIPTION OF LIKE, YOU MUST SHOW THIS, THEN THIS, THEN THIS OTHER THING AND JUST LIKE SCAN THROUGH THE ITEMS, THEN, THEN IT WOULD BE QUITE, IT WOULD BE PRESCRIPTIVE AND THEY WOULDN'T REALLY HAVE A CHOICE OF LIKE, HEY, I PROMISE IT'S GOOD.
END OF VIDEO IS NOT WHAT WOULD REALISTICALLY HAPPEN, RIGHT? IT WOULD BE LIKE, LOOK IN THE AGGREGATION PANEL, LOOK IN THE, YOU KNOW, INVERTER, WIRING BAY, ET CETERA.
I THINK IT WOULD BE VERY STRAIGHTFORWARD TO MAKE THAT CLOSE FORM.
NONE OF THESE SYSTEMS ARE COOKIE CUTTER AND STRAIGHTFORWARD AND SO TO SAY, OH, LET'S LOOK IN THE COMBINER PANEL.
WELL WHAT IF THERE ARE MULTIPLE COMBINER PANELS THEN WE DON'T KNOW MULTIPLE OF THEM.
I'LL, AND, AND, AND, AND SO, YOU KNOW, THAT SAID, WE BELIEVE IN MY, LIKE WITH THE OPINION OF MY INSPECTORS VERY ADAMANT HERE THAT AN INSPECTION NEEDS TO BE FOR SOLAR AND BATTERIES ESPECIALLY NEED TO BE ON SITE AND IN PERSON THAT, AND SO, SO I DON'T DISAGREE THAT IT'S POSSIBLE TO DO A VIDEO INSPECTION.
I DON'T THINK THAT IT LEADS TO SAFE RESULTS IN THE SAME WAY THAT THAT IN-PERSON INSPECTIONS DO.
ANOTHER POINT I'LL MAKE IS LIKE, BASED ON JUST A LITTLE BIT OF RESEARCH I DID ABOUT, UH, CUSTOMER SATISFACTION IN AUSTRALIA, 30% OF CUSTOMERS REPORT THAT THEIR SYSTEMS ARE FAILING.
30% ARE UNHAPPY WITH THEIR CONTRACTORS, AND THEY REPORT THAT THE PRODUCTION IS 11% LESS THAN WHAT THEY WERE QUOTED.
SO, YOU KNOW, THAT ALSO KIND OF SPEAKS TO THE QUALITY OF INSTALLS THAT THEY'RE GETTING OVER THERE.
NOT TO MENTION, LIKE EVERYBODY SAID, BUT NOBODY PUT A NUMBER TO THAT.
THEIR PRICE OF ENERGY IS 40 TO 45 CENTS A KILOWATT HOUR.
SO MORE ABOUT THREE TIMES AS MUCH AS US.
UM, THAT'S GONNA CHANGE THINGS.
YEAH, WHEN I CHECKED A YEAR AGO, IT WASN'T QUITE AT THAT LEVEL, BUT YEAH, IT'S, IT'S PRETTY HIGH.
AND THERE WERE, UM, SOME OF IT WAS DUE TO DEREGULATION.
UM, UH, THERE, THE ENERGY, UH, SYSTEM THERE IS, UH, IN MANY WAYS FLAWED.
UH, WOULD IT BE
WE DID THAT AT THE BEGINNING OF COVID AND THAT'S WHEN WE DETERMINED THAT WE NEED TO BE ON SITE FOR THESE.
I MEAN, CAN YOU SHOW US THE INSPECTIONS AND BE SPECIFIC ABOUT, NOT RIGHT NOW, BUT BE SPECIFIC ABOUT THE THINGS THAT DIDN'T WORK, AND THEN WE CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT LIKE, DID WE APPLY THE CONCEPT WELL OR IS THERE SOMETHING FUNDAMENTAL ABOUT VIDEOS AND PICTURES THAT IS DIFFERENT THAN BEING IN PERSON FOR THE PURPOSE OF, OF ACHIEVING A SAFE INSPECTION? I'LL HAVE TO GO BACK AND IN MY NOTES, AND THAT WAS 2020.
SO I THINK IT WOULD BE A GREAT, BECAUSE YOU MAKE THIS POINT A LOT, I CAN STILL UP, BUT WE DO, I THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD TO SHARE THE FOR INFORMATION, BUT LIKE, OKAY, YOU TRIED IT, IT DIDN'T WORK.
WHY DIDN'T IT WORK? EXACTLY WHAT DIDN'T WORK AND COULD WE DO BETTER? I'M SAYING, I'M NOT SAYING DO A MEDIUM JOB OF THIS.
I'M SAYING WE NEED, WE GOTTA DO A GREAT JOB AT IT.
YOU KNOW, IT MAY BE HARD, WE MAY NOT GET IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, BUT I AM ARGUING FOR THERE IS A GOOD REASON TO, TO DO THIS.
LIKE THERE IS SOMETHING ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS.
I'M, I'M OPEN TO EXPLORE IT FURTHER AND MAYBE THERE'S LIKE AI TECHNOLOGY THAT CAN HELP WITH IT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
BUT I, WHAT I DON'T WANT IS FOR THIS COMMISSION TO TRY TO TWIST AUSTIN ENERGY'S ARM TO START REQUIRING REMOTE INSPECTIONS
[02:15:01]
WHEN WE'VE TRIED IT AND IT DID NOT WORK.AND SO, AND I, WHEN I COME TO YOU, I WANT YOU GUYS TO BELIEVE ME WHEN I TELL YOU THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SERIOUS CONCERNS ABOUT THAT APPROACH.
AND SO I, I'M NOT SAYING THAT IT'S THAT WE COULDN'T TRY AND MAYBE WORK OUT THE KINKS, BUT IT, I I DEFINITELY DO NOT THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE TO BE RE TO BE COMPELLED TO DO IT AFTER, YOU KNOW, TELLING YOU GUYS THAT WE HAVE HAD BAD EXPERIENCES WITH IT.
WE ARE AN ADVISORY BODY AND WE CANNOT COMPEL AUSTIN ENERGY TO DO ANYTHING.
I UNDERSTAND, BUT YOU'RE, YOU'RE PUSHING A RESOLUTION THAT COULD, WELL, IF COUNSEL ACCEPTS IT AND TRUE ENOUGH, BUT THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S YOUR GOAL, RIGHT? WELL,
UM, I WANNA, UH, SWITCH GEARS A LITTLE BIT AND ASK MR. HARVEY, WHAT IN YOUR ESTIMATION IS, UM, I, I GUESS THE, THE, WHAT ARE THE LIMITING FACTORS FOR THE PENETRATION OF SOLAR RESIDENTIAL SOLAR IN AUSTIN? WE TALKED ABOUT, UM, ENERGY PRI OR ELECTRICITY PRICING OR, YOU KNOW, BEING A DRIVER OF DEMAND, BUT WHAT ARE THE OTHER THINGS THAT ARE IN YOUR, IN YOUR VIEW, ARE STANDING IN THE WAY OF, YOU KNOW, MORE ADOPTION? THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
UM, I DO THINK THAT THE, UM, INSTALLED COSTS ARE AS MUCH OF A DRIVER AS THE, THE UTILITY RATE, RIGHT? BECAUSE IT'S ALL A FINANCIAL, UM, PROPOSITION TO A CUSTOMER.
UM, AND WE, WE WORK TO TRY TO STREAMLINE PROCESSES AND, AND GET THOSE AND SAW COSTS REDUCED.
UM, I THINK THAT, UM, EDUCATION, UM, ACCESS TO CAPITAL IS A BIG ONE.
UM, AND, AND THAT'S PROBABLY REALLY HUGE, I THINK IN, IN AREAS WHERE THEY ALLOW, UM, SOLAR LEASING TO THE EXTENT THAT IT BASICALLY IS A POWER PURCHASE AGREEMENT, UM, WHICH WE WOULD NOT DO HERE.
UM, BUT THAT DEFINITELY, YOU KNOW, PROVIDES A NO UPFRONT COST OPPORTUNITY TO CUSTOMERS, UM, WHICH, YOU KNOW, JUST OPENS THE DOOR FOR SOLAR.
UM, SO, UM, I THINK THAT'S PART OF IT.
UM, I WOULD SAY THAT WE'RE ON PAR WITH OUR OTHER SISTER CITIES IN TEXAS THAT ARE ALSO TRYING TO PROMOTE SOLAR.
UM, I THINK WE, YOU KNOW, I DON'T SEE ANY MAJOR BARRIERS THAT WE COULD JUST LIKE TAKE DOWN AND MAKE IT, THERE'S NO SILVER, SILVER BULLET IN, IN OTHER WORDS, IN MY OPINION.
UM, HOW LONG ON AVERAGE DOES IT TAKE TO ACQUIRE A PERMIT FOR A SOLAR INSTALLATION? UM, YEAH, I THINK YOU CAN GET IT THE SAME DAY IN MOST CASES FOR RESIDENTIAL.
SO THAT, THAT WOULD, THAT WOULDN'T BE A, A SIGNIFICANT SOURCE OF FRICTION.
YEAH, I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE BARRIER.
I THINK THERE IS ONE BARRIER, UM, POTENTIALLY FOR, UM, SOLAR AND BATTERIES WHERE THEY HAVE TO GET A HARD SHUTDOWN.
UM, SO, AND WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON THAT.
WE'RE CURRENTLY, UM, WORKING WITH DSD TO TRY TO STREAMLINE THAT PROCESS, BUT IT CAN TAKE, UM, MULTIPLE WEEKS IN CERTAIN AREAS OF TOWN TO GET YOUR SHUT DOWN, UM, IF YOU NEED A HARD SHUTDOWN.
WE, UM, AND WE NOTICED THAT A, A COUPLE YEARS AGO, UM, WE IMPLEMENTED THE CONTRACTOR DISCONNECT PROGRAM, WHICH ALLOWS CONTRACTORS TO PULL THE METER WITHOUT AUSTIN ENERGY DOING IT, DOING THE DISCONNECT ACTUALLY, UM, WHICH IS SAFE FOR THEM TO DO.
UM, AND SO WE MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE QUALIFIED AND TRAINED ON HOW TO DO THAT.
UM, AND SO THAT'S HELPED A LITTLE BIT, BUT WE STILL HAVE AREAS OF CONS OF TOWN THAT ARE MORE CONSTRAINED, UM, MOSTLY BECAUSE THEY'RE LIKE UNDERGROUND.
SO IT REQUIRES DIFFERENT CREWS TO GO OUT AND, AND, UM, DO THE DISCONNECTS ON THOSE UNDERGROUND TRANSFORMERS.
AND DO YOU HAVE A SENSE FOR WHAT PROPORTION, WHAT PERCENTAGE OF SOLAR INSTALLS ARE, UM, TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE REBATE? YES.
UM, AND, AND SO THERE'S BEEN A TREND THERE, UM, SINCE ABOUT 20 18, 20 17, 20 18, WE STARTED NOTICING THAT CUSTOMERS WERE
[02:20:01]
GOING WITHOUT THE INCENTIVE MORE.UH, PRIOR TO THAT IT WAS ALMOST A HUNDRED PERCENT INCENTIVES.
UM, AND NOW IT'S BEEN TRENDING MORE AND MORE IN THAT DIRECTION, AND WE'RE AT ABOUT 50 50 NOW.
AND PART OF THE REASON OF THAT IS, UM, THAT SOME OF THE LARGE CORPORATIONS, TESLA INCLUDED, UM, HAVE WITHDRAWN FROM THE INCENTIVE PROGRAM AND IN FACT, ALL INCENTIVE PROGRAMS IS MY UNDERSTANDING.
AND THAT'S BECAUSE THEY JUST WANT TO STREAMLINE PROCESSES AND, YOU KNOW, NOT HAVE TO DEAL WITH DIFFERENT NUANCES BETWEEN PROGRAMS AND WHATNOT.
SO THAT WAS THE RATIONALE THERE.
SO IT'S MORE STREAMLINED TO INSTALL IF YOU'RE NOT GOING FOR THE REBATE.
ESPECIALLY FROM A REBATE PROGRAM TO REBATE PROGRAM IN DIFFERENT AREAS OF THE COUNTRY.
AND, YOU KNOW, THEY ALREADY HAVE TO DEAL WITH DIFFERENT LOCAL REGULATIONS AND STANDARDS, BUT THEN WHEN YOU THROW ON, UM, DIFFERENT REBATE REQUIREMENTS AND SUBMITTALS AND, YOU KNOW, BACK AND FORTH FOR APPLICATION ADJUSTMENTS AND STUFF LIKE THAT, THEY JUST, THEY'RE BIG, YOU KNOW, AND THEY, THEY WANT TO, THEY, THEY MADE THEIR SALES PROCESS A LOT MORE AUTOMATED, UM, ESPECIALLY AT THAT TIME.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE TAKING PEOPLE OUT OF THE HOMES DOING THAT KIND OF CUSTOM CONVERSATION AND, AND, AND TALKING AND, AND GOING TO MORE COOKIE CUTTER TYPE APPROACH IS MY UNDERSTANDING.
COMMISSIONERS, UH, OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? UM, ONE THING I, I, I JUST WANTED TO, I COULD PROBABLY BELIEVE THAT THERE WAS A 30% DISCONTENT RATE IN AUSTRALIA.
UH, UM, BUT UNTIL I KNOW THE CONTEXT OF WHY, UH, I'M NOT CONVINCED THAT IT'S THE FAULT OF ANY ONE POLICY.
UM, I MEAN, I, I COULD JUST, I'M JUST SPECULATING, BUT IT COULD BE, UH, THAT THERE IS OLD EQUIPMENT.
UH, IT COULD BE, UH, THAT, THAT EQUIPMENT OR, UH, INSTALLATION REGULATIONS HAVE IMPROVED, UH, AFTER SEEING CERTAIN FAILURES.
SO AGAIN, I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE WRONG, I'M JUST SAYING THAT THERE MAY BE A CONTEXT THAT, UH, SO I, OH, SORRY.
UM, AT ANY RATE, I, I'M, I'M, THAT'S JUST MY, MY, UH, MAIN POINT, UH, I DID WANT TO ASK IS, UH, IS, UH, MR. SA, UH, COMMISSIONER ERTA CORRECT THAT, UH, I'M WRONG ON THE VALUE OF SOLAR.
THAT VALUE OF SOLAR DOES NOT ALLOW OVERPRODUCTION, UH, TO, TO, UH, PROFIT THE VALUE OF SOLAR, UM, IS, GIVES A RATE FOR ALL PRODUCTION, WHETHER IT'S CONSUMED ON SITE OR PUSHED BACK TO THE GRID.
IF A CUSTOMER OVERPRODUCES IN A MONTH, AND THAT HAPPENS OFTEN, AND ESPECIALLY IN THE SPRING AND FALL, UM, THEN THEY ESTABLISH A CREDIT BASED ON THAT SAME RATE.
THAT CREDIT CONTINUES FORWARD INDEFINITELY UNTIL IT'S CONSUMED ON THE BILL.
SO THEY, THEY CAN'T CASH OUT THEIR CREDIT, THEIR CREDIT DOESN'T HAVE CASH VALUE, BUT, BUT THEY, BUT IT APPLIES, BUT THEY COULD HAVE ZERO BILLS, UH, UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES, THEY COULD HAVE ZERO BILLS FOR INFINITY.
UM, UH, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN WITH, UM, APPRECIATION FOR THE WORK THAT COMMISSIONER CITAS HAS DONE TO MODIFY THIS.
IT SOUNDS AS THOUGH THERE IS STILL A NEED FOR CONTINUING CONVERSATION WITH AUSTIN ENERGY TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER THERE IS SOME, SOME MIDDLE GROUND.
WHETHER PORTIONS OF THIS CAN BE, I, I'M NOT INTERESTED IN PUSHING SOMETHING DOWN, TRYING TO PUSH SOMETHING DOWN THAT AUSTIN ENERGY THINKS IS A TERRIBLE IDEA.
SOME OF THE BAD IDEAS I'M WILLING TO, TO ARGUE WITH, BUT, BUT TERRIBLE IDEAS.
AND, AND CLEARLY THERE ARE SOME ISSUES THAT THAT, THAT MR. HARVEY AND OTHERS THINK ARE PRETTY TERRIBLE IDEAS IN THIS PROPOSAL.
SO I, FOR ONE, AM NOT READY TO VOTE ON IT AT THIS TIME.
AND I THINK WE COULD BENEFIT BY HAVING A FEW MORE CONVERSATIONS OFFLINE ABOUT IT WITH, WITH AUSTIN ENERGY EXPERTS.
[02:25:01]
UH, UH, COMMISSIONER SAN SARITA.YEAH, IF I MAY, I, I, IT SEEMS LIKE THE POINT OF CONTENTION IS REALLY MAYBE MOSTLY THE INSPECTION THING, MAYBE THE QUIZ TO SOME EXTENT.
BUT IF THE INSPECTION IS LIKE REALLY THE STICKING POINT, I'M REALLY ISSUING THE CHALLENGE, JO ENERGY, LIKE, COME TELL US WHY, TELL US HOW AND WHY VIDEO WOULDN'T WORK.
I THINK I'M MAKING A PRETTY CLEAR CASE HERE FOR LIKE, WHY IT SHOULD BALL, BALL IS IN YOUR COURT.
WHY DOES IT NOT? IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO SAY, WE TRIED IT, WE DIDN'T LIKE IT.
AND I THINK THAT IS TOTALLY FAIR AND ON EVIDENCE THAT PROVES OR EVEN SUGGESTS STRONGLY THAT THERE IS A NECESSITY FOR AN IN-PERSON, THIS TO HAPPEN SYNCHRONOUSLY IN PERSON.
AND SO YEAH, THIS IS MY REQUEST TO BRING THAT.
I THINK THIS IS THE MAIN POINT YOU'RE REFERRING TO.
WELL, THERE ARE, THERE ARE SEVERAL POINTS THAT WE NEED TO GO BACK TO, TO WORK ON, LIKE THE HOW, HOW DO WE PRESENT COST EVIDENCE EFFECTIVELY IN A WAY THAT DOESN'T SCREW UP THE MARKET.
BUT I'M NOT, AND, AND I THINK THESE NEED TO BE DONE OFFLINE AND NOT IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS ROOM ON VIDEO.
I WAS JUST TRYING TO IDENTIFY WHAT I THOUGHT WAS THE MOST CONTENTIOUS ONE.
I THINK WE HAD LIKE PRETTY BROAD AGREEMENT AND, AND THAT IN PARTICULAR, I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO BE DOING RIGHT HERE IN THIS ROOM IN REAL TIME.
THE EVIDENCE YOU'RE REFERRING TO LIKE THAT I'M REQUESTING.
A YEAH, ASYNCHRONOUSLY IS TOTALLY FINE FOR THAT.
UM, COMM SORRY, ONE MORE THING.
UM, I ALSO LIKE, DO NOT, DO NOT INTEND TO VOTE ON THIS TO, TO, TO ASK FOR A VOTE FOR THIS TONIGHT.
I WANNA ADDRESS EVERYBODY'S CONCERN AS AS MUCH AS WE, AS MUCH AS WE CAN.
SO I THINK I HAVE SOME CONVERSATIONS TO HAVE HAPPEN, HAVE WITH FOLKS AS MUCH AS WE CAN WITHOUT VIOLATING QUORUM RULES.
UM, AND I HOPE, HOPE TO COME BACK WITH SOMETHING REVISED NEXT MONTH THAT WE CAN ALL ALL AGREE AS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
DO WE WANT TO, OKAY, THIS, WOULD, WE NEED TO DISCUSS THIS UNDER NEW BUSINESS AS TO WHEN WE'RE GOING WHEN AND HOW WE WILL BRING THIS BACK.
BUT, UM, I DON'T WANT TO CUT OFF ANY DISCUSSION.
WE'RE NOT AT THE 8 45, UH, WITCHING HOUR YET, SO CAN WE JUST PLAN FOR NEXT MEETING? UH, LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT IN A COUPLE MINUTES.
UM, UH, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE? COMMISSIONERS? OKAY, NOW
[FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT.PROBABLY LIKE 15 OR 20 MINUTES IS MAYBE REASONABLE, UH, INCLUDING DISCUSSION, MAYBE 30, I GUESS.
UH, I, I HAD PLAN ON AT LEAST 30 30.
THIS IS A MULTIFACETED RESOLUTION WITH OPPOSITION AND NUANCE AND YEAH, MORE LIKE AN HOUR REALLY.
SO, UM, UM, IF, IF THINGS ARE GOING SLOWLY, EXCUSE ME, IF THINGS ARE GOING SOLELY IN THE CONVERSATION AND BACK AND FORTH WITH MR. HARVEY AND HIS TEAM, THIS MAY NOT BE READY IN THREE WEEKS JUST SAYING.
SO WE NEED, WE NEED THE OPTION TO CARRY IT OVER RATHER THAN GO HALFWAY INTO SOMETHING, GO INTO, INTO ITS COMMISSION DISCUSSION WITHOUT A, A SOLID TECHNICALLY AGREEABLE COMPROMISE AND LANGUAGE DETERMINED.
WE DON'T, WE DON'T WANNA GO HALFWAY INTO THIS WITHOUT MAXIMUM RESOLUTION.
UM, SO I WOULD SUGGEST THAT, UM, SINCE UH, COMMISSIONERS SA, SARITA, SILVERSTEIN AND MYSELF ARE ALL CO-SPONSORS THAT WE, UH, CO-SPONSOR TENTATIVELY CO-SPONSOR CONTINUED DISCUSSION OF THIS FOR THE NEXT MEETING.
AND IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN, THEN UM, UM, OUR CHAIR WHO'S HERE FOR ONE MORE UNTIL OUR APRIL MEETING WILL MAKE SURE THINGS ARE HANDLED
[02:30:01]
EXPEDITIOUSLY.IF THERE'S ONE THING, UH, CHAIR STONE IS GOOD AT, IT'S BEING EXPEDITIOUS
UM, ARE THERE ANY OTHER THINGS? OF COURSE, THERE'S AN ELECTION, UH, IN APRIL THAT, UH, WE DON'T HAVE TO CO-SPONSOR THAT, THAT WILL HAPPEN.
AND, UM, JUST FOR THE RECORD, UM, I'M, UH, I'M GOING TO BE, UH, RUNNING AGAIN FOR VICE CHAIR, BUT I WILL BE SUPPORTING COMMISSIONER DAVIS AS CHAIR SHOULD SHE WANT THIS.
UH, NEXT, UM, I WOULD LIKE, UH, IT'S REALLY ONE ITEM, BUT IT'S KIND OF TWO ITEMS. I WOULD LIKE SOME INFORMATION TO BE PRESENTED ON, UH, THE HOME RETROFIT PROGRAM.
UH, NOT THE HOME RETROFIT CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE PROGRAM, BUT THE PROGRAM THAT USED TO BE AUSTIN ENERGY'S FLAGSHIP AND HAS FALLEN ON ROCKY TIMES.
AND I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHY THERE'S SUCH LOW PARTICIPATION AND WHAT MIGHT BE DONE TO IMPROVE IT.
SO I'D LIKE, UH, IF THAT'S POSSIBLE, A PRESENTATION ON THAT IN, UH, APRIL AND HOPEFULLY INCLUDED IN THAT WOULD ALSO BE A PROPOSED, UH, A PROPOSAL ON A HEAT PUMP WATER HEATER REBATE TO NEW BUILDERS.
AND AS MOST COMMISSIONERS KNOW, I WOULD PREFER IT BE REQUIRED IN THE BUILDING CODE, BUT I'M NOT UNHAPPY THAT THEY ARE CONS THAT AUSTIN ENERGY IS CONSIDERING A REBATE.
I THINK IT'S WELL PAST TIME THAT SOME ACTION HAPPENED AND I'D KIND OF LIKE TO KNOW WHAT ACTION IS BEING PROPOSED, UH, AND WHEN IT WILL OCCUR AND AT WHAT FUNDING LEVELS.
SO I'M ASKING THAT THESE, UH, CUSTOMER ENERGY SOLUTIONS PROGRAMS, UH, BE, UH, PUT ON AS A, AS A BRIEFING.
UH, UH, MR. GENESEE, JUST, JUST SEEKING A LITTLE CLARIFICATION WHEN YOU SAY THE RETROFIT PROGRAM, I WANT TO BE SPECIFIC ABOUT WHICH PROGRAM YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
UH, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, UH, AT ONE TIME IT USED TO BE CALLED HOME PERFORMANCE.
OH, THE, THE, OKAY, SO BY HOME ENERGY SAVINGS, UH, IT USED TO BE HOME PERFORMANCE WITH ENERGY STAR.
AND OKAY, THAT'S THE PROGRAM YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
UH, YEAH, THAT, THAT GIVES REBATES FOR INSTALLATION AND SOLAR SCREENS AND, AND AS WELL AS AIR CONDITIONING, BUT IT'S SEPARATE FROM THE REBATE THAT IS JUST FOR AIR CONDITIONING AND, AND HEAT PUMPS.
UM, SO THOSE ARE, UH, MY, UH, ITEMS THAT I'D LIKE TO SEE IN THE NEAR FUTURE.
ARE THERE OTHER COMMISSIONERS THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK UP? OKAY, THEN I THINK WE HAVE RESOLVED, UH, OUR BUSINESS FOR THE EVENING AND, UM, I WISH YOU ALL A GOOD RIDE HOME.