[00:00:04]
[CALL TO ORDER]
UM, I WILL NOW CALL THE PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE TO ORDER.IT IS MAY 19TH AT 2:03 PM UM, AND THIS IS A SPECIAL CALLED MEETING OF THE PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE.
WE ARE AT CITY HALL, LOCATED AT 3 0 1 WEST SECOND STREET, AUSTIN, TEXAS, AND WE HAVE A QUORUM PRESENT, UH, VICE CHAIR LANE AND COUNCIL MEMBER UCHIN, UH, NOT PRESENT ARE MAYOR WATSON AND COUNCIL MEMBER RI UH, AND I WILL TURN IT OVER TO OUR FOLKS TO
[Public Communication: General]
SEE IF WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMUNICATION.NO, WE HAVE NO PUBLIC COMMUNICATION.
[Approval of Minutes]
WE NEED TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM OUR PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE ON APRIL 7TH, 2025.I'LL ACCEPT A MOTION TO APPROVE THOSE MINUTES MADE BY COUNCIL MEMBER UCHIN, SECONDED BY COUNCIL MEMBER LANE.
UH, WITHOUT OBJECTION, THE MINUTES ARE APPROVED.
[2. Briefing on Reexamining Use of Force by the Austin Police Department [Lisa Davis, Chief - Austin Police Department and Dr. Robin Engel, Senior Research Scientist, John Glenn College of Public Affairs at The Ohio State University].]
HAVE, OUR SECOND ITEM IS A BRIEFING.UM, UH, THE COMMITTEE WILL NOT TAKE UP ITEM NUMBER TWO, WHICH IS A BRIEFING ON REEXAMINING USE OF FORCE BY THE AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT.
UH, I BELIEVE WE HAVE CHIEF CHIEF DAVIS HERE WITH US.
ROBIN ENGEL, A SENIOR RESEARCH SCIENTIST, UM, UH, AT THE, AT OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY, THE OHIO STATE, OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY, THE OHIO STATE.
UM, AND IF WE WANT, UM, WE'LL JUST, UH, WE'LL LET THEM GET INTO THE PRESENTATION AND PULL UP OUR QUESTIONS AFTER.
UH, COMMITTEE CHAIR AND COUNCIL MEMBERS.
I THINK THIS IS A EXCELLENT OPPORTUNITY TO KIND OF LOOK AT OUR, UH, USE OF FORCE, OUR OVERVIEW.
UM, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS WHEN A NEW CHIEF COMES IN IS YOU WANT TO KIND OF BRING PEOPLE IN TO TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT YOU HAVE.
AND, UM, ROBIN, I'VE WORKED WITH HER IN DR.
ENGLE IN CINCINNATI, AND SHE IS AN EXPERT IN MANY THINGS, INCLUDING, UH, POLICE USE OF FORCE.
SO SHE IS A, A EXCELLENT PERSON TO COME IN HERE, AND I THINK YOU'RE GONNA ENJOY HER, HER PRESENTATION ABOUT USE OF FORCE AND WHERE WE ARE IN THE AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT.
I APPRECIATE, UM, THE INTRODUCTION.
AND YES, IT IS THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY.
UM, ALTHOUGH, APOLOGIES, APOLOGIES.
UM, I DID LEARN IN, UH, NEW EMPLOYEE ORIENTATION THAT THE STANDS FOR TRADITION HONOR AND EXCELLENCE, AND I'VE BEEN TOLD TO REPEAT THAT.
ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES CALLS ME THE JOSE QUEZ, SO I'M ASSUMING THAT'S WHY NOW,
TRADITION, HONOR AND EXCELLENCE.
UM, SO THANK YOU SO MUCH, UH, FOR HAVING ME TODAY.
UH, IT, IT'S, UM, I THINK THAT THE CHIEF SAID IT BEST IS THAT WHEN YOU COME INTO A NEW DEPARTMENT, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU REALLY WANNA VERY UNDERSTAND RIGHT FROM THE ONSET IS WHAT YOUR HIGHEST RISK IS.
AND FOR THE AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT AND POLICE DEPARTMENTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, ONE OF THE HIGHEST RISKS IS USE OF FORCE.
AND THAT RISK IS FOR OFFICERS AS WELL AS THE PUBLIC, RIGHT.
AND WE WANNA THINK ABOUT BEST WAYS THAT WE CAN REDUCE THAT RISK, AND THAT WE CAN REDUCE OFFICER INJURY AND CITIZEN INJURY, AND MAKE POLICE CITIZEN ENCOUNTERS SAFER FOR ALL.
AND SO WHEN WE DO THAT, WE REALLY NEED TO TAKE A HOLISTIC LOOK AT A LOT OF DIFFERENT COMPONENTS, INCLUDING THINGS LIKE THE, UH, THE POLICY OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, THE PROCEDURES THAT ARE USED, THE ACCOUNTABILITY AND, UH, OVERSIGHT MECHANISMS THAT ARE PRESENT, UM, BUT ALSO FIRST LINE SUPERVISION AND OFFICER TRAINING.
THERE'S, THERE'S SO MANY THINGS THAT ARE CAPTURED IN THIS ENCOUNTER THAT HAPPENS OFTENTIMES IN SUCH QUICK TIME, RIGHT IN SECONDS CAN, CAN RESULT, UM, IN A USE OF FORCE.
AND SO WE WANT TO REALLY BEST UNDERSTAND HOLISTICALLY EVERYTHING THAT THE AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT IS DOING TO TRY TO MITIGATE THAT RISK.
UM, AND SO CHIEF DAVIS ASKED ME TO COME IN AND TAKE A LOOK AT ALL OF THOSE, UM, COMPONENTS.
UM, AND WHEN I FIRST, UH, BROUGHT SOME INFORMATION, UM, BACK TO HER, SHE ASKED, UM, THAT I ALSO BRIEF ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER, UM, EDDIE GARCIA, WHO I BELIEVE IS HERE WITH US TODAY AS WELL.
UM, AND OF COURSE, UM, THE ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER IS NO STRANGER TO THESE ISSUES IN POLICING.
UM, AND ALSO HAS DONE A VERY GOOD JOB, UM, IN PRIOR DEPARTMENTS.
UH, I KNEW, UM, ASSISTANT CHIEF, UH, OR ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER, UH, GARCIA, WHEN HE WAS THE CHIEF IN SAN JOSE AND ALSO IN DALLAS, UH, AND MAKE SURE THAT THESE AGENCIES, AGAIN, ARE, ARE SAFE AND WELL FOR THE OFFICERS, BUT ALSO FOR THE PUBLIC THAT THEY SERVE.
SO I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITIES, UM, FROM EVERYONE.
UH, SO WITH THAT, I DO HAVE A PRESENTATION FOR YOU WITH SOME OF MY INITIAL FINDINGS AND WHAT WE'LL BE DOING MOVING FORWARD.
I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU'VE RECEIVED A, A COPY OF, OF SOME OF THIS MATERIAL, AND I'D LIKE TO JUST TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN TO YOU WHAT YOU'RE SEEING IN THAT POWERPOINT PRESENTATION.
SO WITH THAT, I'M GONNA TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS WORKS.
UM, WHAT I'LL BE PRESENTING TO YOU TODAY IS A REVIEW OF, UH, JUST A, AN AN ASSESSMENT OF WHAT I'VE DONE SO FAR.
UM, MY SUMMARY FINDINGS, A SERIES OF RECOMMENDATIONS THAT I GAVE TO CHIEF DAVIS NOW A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO.
[00:05:01]
HAS ALREADY EXECUTED MANY OF THESE, AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT.UM, AND AS PART OF THAT IS A, WHAT WE'RE CALLING A USE OF FORCE TASK FORCE, THAT TASK FORCE IS MADE UP OF INDIVIDUALS WITHIN THE AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT, UM, MYSELF AND, AND SOME OTHERS.
AND WE'LL TALK ALL ABOUT THAT AND THE UPDATES THAT WE HAVE TO BRING TO YOUR ATTENTION TODAY.
SO WITH THAT, UM, I THINK PROBABLY BEST, UM, GIVEN THAT THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING, THAT I'LL TAKE QUESTIONS AT THE END.
UM, BUT IF YOU DO HAVE A MOMENT WHERE SOMETHING'S NOT CLEAR, UM, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY FEEL FREE TO, TO INTERRUPT AND AND I'LL ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS.
SO FIRST WITH THE REVIEW, UH, I AM A RESEARCHER BY TRAINING.
I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR NEARLY 30 YEARS NOW.
I WORK WITH DOZENS OF AGENCIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND AROUND THE WORLD.
AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I ALWAYS DO IS I NEVER JUST LOOK AT DATA.
I'M TRAINED AS A SOCIAL SCIENTIST TRAINED IN RESEARCH, BUT I ALSO KNOW THAT THE DATA DOESN'T TELL YOU EVERYTHING THAT YOU NEED TO KNOW.
IN FACT, OFTENTIMES IT TELLS YOU JUST ENOUGH, UH, TO BE DANGEROUS.
AND YOU REALLY HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE DYNAMICS LOOK LIKE ON THE GROUND.
SO ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS I DID, UH, WHEN THE CHIEF ASKED ME TO COME, IS TO DO A SERIES OF INFORMAL INTERVIEWS, GROUP MEETINGS WITH THE, UH, AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT WITH THE SWORN AND PROFESSIONAL STAFF, INCLUDING THE CHIEF, UH, CHIEF OF STAFF, ROBIN HENDERSON, WHO'S HERE WITH US TODAY.
UM, ALL OF THE ASSISTANT CHIEFS THAT WERE IN PLACE AT THAT TIME, UH, WHEN I FIRST CAME, UH, IN DECEMBER, THE FORCE REVIEW UNIT, THE FRU COMMANDER, UH, CRUZ, UH, AND HER STAFF.
I ALSO MET WITH SIU, WHICH IS A SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS UNIT, UM, INTERNAL AFFAIRS, THEIR COMMANDERS AND STAFF.
THE TRAINING COMMANDER AT THE TIME, ACTUALLY, UH, IS NOW AN ASSISTANT CHIEF WHO'S CO-CHAIRING, UH, THIS WORK WITH ME.
AND THAT'S, UH, MIKE CHANCELLOR, WHO'S SEATED RIGHT BEHIND ME, I BELIEVE.
UH, BUT I HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO MEET WITH HIM AND HIS, UH, AT THE TIME, HIS STAFF IN TRAINING, AND ALSO WITH THE RESEARCH AND PLANNING UNIT STAFF.
UM, THAT UNIT IS NOW, UH, OVERSEEN BY CHIEF MAYORS HAROLD, WHO IS ALSO HERE WITH US TODAY.
UH, CHIEF HAROLD, UM, HAS BEEN REALLY INSTRUMENTAL IN HELPING, UH, ASSIST WITH ALL OF THE DATA, UH, ISSUES THAT I'M GONNA BE BRINGING TO YOUR ATTENTION.
UM, I ALSO MET, UM, WITH, UH, DIRECTOR, UH, GAIL MCCANN, UM, FROM THE OFFICE OF POLICE OVERSIGHT, UH, THE OPO AND SOME OF HER STAFF AS WELL.
THEY ARE NOW INVOLVED DIRECTLY IN THIS WORK WITH A SEAT AT THE TABLE ON OUR USE OF FORCE TASK FORCE.
SO THIS IS A PARTNERSHIP, UH, WHERE WE'RE REALLY WORKING TOGETHER, AGAIN, TO MITIGATE RISK FOR OUR OFFICERS AND FOR OUR PUBLIC.
I ALSO DECIDED, YOU KNOW WHAT? I NEED TO GO OUT THERE AND SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING.
SO I RODE, UH, MULTIPLE SHIFTS, UH, AND OPPORTUNITIES TO RIDE IN GEORGE SECTOR IN PARTICULAR, UP AND DOWN SIXTH STREET.
IN PART, THE REASON FOR THAT SELECTION WAS BECAUSE, UH, A LARGE PROPORTION OF THE USE OF FORCE INCIDENTS HAPPENED, UH, WITH THAT SECTOR AND IN, UH, SIXTH STREET CORRIDOR IN PARTICULAR.
SO I HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEND SOME TIME WITH THE OFFICERS THAT ARE ASSIGNED THERE AND ACTUALLY DO OBSERVATIONS IN THE FIELD.
I REVIEWED A SERIES OF DOCUMENTS, A LOT OF DOCUMENTS, AS MATTER OF FACT.
UM, LOOKING AT YOUR, UH, THE AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT'S RESPONSE TO RESISTANCE REPORTS FROM 2019 TO 2022, YOUR, UH, FORCE REVIEW UNIT, MONTHLY REPORTS, OPO MEMOS, I LOOKED BACK, UH, FIVE YEARS AT CITY COUNCIL RESOLUTIONS RELATED TO THE USE OF FORCE.
I ALSO CONSULTED WITH PREVIOUS EXTERNAL REPORTS, INCLUDING THE PAROLE REPORT, UH, THAT LOOKED SPECIFICALLY AT USE OF FORCE AT THE TIME, UH, FOR THE AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT, AND ALSO HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO, UH, HAVE SOME SELECTED BODY CAM SHOWED TO ME FOOTAGE, UM, BUT ALSO RANDOMLY SELECTED SOME USE OF FORCE INCIDENTS TO REVIEW.
AND THEN FINALLY, AND THIS WAS THE LARGEST CHUNK OF MY WORK, UM, I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE THE SMALLEST.
IT TURNED OUT TO BE THE LARGEST.
AND ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I'M HERE TODAY IS THE DATA REVIEW, WORKING WITH THE AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT, UH, ANALYST, UH, A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT ANALYSTS TO HELP ME UNDERSTAND HOW DATA IS COLLECTED AND REPORTED TO THE PUBLIC.
WE EXAMINED PREVIOUS DATA REPORTS AND ANALYSES, AND ALSO CONDUCTED NEW ANALYSES TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE WAS CONSISTENCY AND MY SUMMARY FINDINGS.
THEN, UM, UNFORTUNATELY, I DID FIND A NUMBER OF INCONSISTENCIES ACROSS THE AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT AND ALL ASPECTS OF USE OF FORCE, INCLUDING REPORTING, ACCOUNTABILITY AND OVERSIGHT MECHANISMS, UM, AND TRAINING.
NOW, THAT MIGHT COME AS A LITTLE BIT, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, GUT WRENCHING, UM, PARTICULARLY FOR MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC TO HEAR THAT THERE ARE INCONSISTENCIES ACROSS THE AGENCY.
BUT I WANNA ASSURE YOU THAT IN TRUTH, THAT'S, UH, THERE ARE INCONSISTENCIES IN POLICE DEPARTMENTS IN THESE AREAS THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY.
AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I DO, UM, ESPECIALLY
[00:10:01]
WITH PROGRESSIVE CHIEFS, UM, LIKE CHIEF DAVIS, IS TO COME IN AND FIGURE OUT HOW DO WE IDENTIFY WHAT THOSE GAPS ARE AND WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT THEM? BECAUSE AGAIN, THERE'S NEVER GOING TO BE ONE PERFECT SYSTEM, UH, BUT WE CAN ABSOLUTELY WORK TOGETHER TO REDUCE RISK.AND, UH, CLEANING UP SOME OF THESE INCONSISTENCIES IS, IS PART OF THAT OVERALL PROCESS.
WE'RE REALLY LOOKING FOR CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT OVER TIME.
AND, UH, I'M, I'M HOPEFUL AND OPTIMISTIC, UH, THAT THE AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT IS ON THE RIGHT PATH FOR THIS.
UM, HAVING SAID THAT, THERE ARE SIGNIFICANT ISSUES IN PARTICULAR WITH THE DATA REPORTING, THE RELIABILITY, AND THE VALIDITY OF THE DATA THAT'S AVAILABLE, STATISTICAL ANALYSIS THAT HAVE BEEN CONDUCTED FOR, UH, FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, UM, AND THE REPORTS THAT HAVE BEEN ISSUED.
AND I HAVE FOUND A NUMBER OF ERRORS, UM, AND OTHER THINGS THAT WE WANNA BRING TO YOUR ATTENTION, SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE THE COUNTING OF THE USE OF FORCE IS HOW YOU ESTABLISH EXTERNAL CREDIBILITY AND LEGITIMACY WITH YOUR PUBLIC.
AND WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GET THIS RIGHT.
UH, AND SO THIS IS, UH, ANOTHER KEY PART OF WHAT I'LL BE WORKING ON MOVING FORWARD.
AND AS PART OF THAT, I FOUND, UM, INTERESTING, UH, A LOT OF AGENCIES THAT I GO IN, I OFTEN SEE, UM, AN UNDERREPORTING OF USE OF FORCE.
UM, HERE I'VE, I'VE DISCOVERED THAT THERE'S POTENTIALLY, UH, AN OVERREPORTING OF USE OF FORCE INCIDENTS.
NOW, UM, THERE'S A LOT OF REASONS FOR THIS, UM, AND WE NEED TO REALLY THINK THROUGH HOW THAT DATA IS PULLED TOGETHER, PRESENTED, ANALYZED, AND PUSHED BACK OUT TO THE PUBLIC.
AND SO I'LL GET INTO GREATER DETAIL HERE IN A MOMENT, BUT THESE ARE THE SUMMARY FINDINGS THAT I BROUGHT TO CHIEF DAVIS, WHICH IS WHY SHE ASKED ME TO THEN, UH, BRIEF, UM, UH, YOU FOLKS HERE TODAY.
SO, UM, JUST TO LEVEL SET, UM, THESE NUMBERS HAVE CHANGED, UM, JUST IN THE COURSE OF MY EXAMINATION MULTIPLE TIMES.
SO THE FACT THAT WE HAVE TROUBLE JUST COUNTING THE NUMBER OF USE OF FORCE INCIDENTS, UM, IN, IN A PARTICULAR TIME PERIOD HAS BEEN A CHALLENGE.
AND I'LL EXPLAIN WHY IN A MOMENT.
BUT WE BELIEVE THAT THESE NUMBERS ARE ACCURATE TO DATE.
THIS IS FOR LAST YEAR, 2024, THE NUMBER OF U THE NUMBER OF SUBJECTS, INDIVIDUAL SUBJECTS WHO HAD FORCE USED AGAINST THEM DURING AN ENCOUNTER, UH, WITH THE AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT, 2,919 SUSPECTS.
NOW, THE WAY THAT USE OF FORCE IS COLLECTED AND ANALYZED, UH, WITH A PD IS AT DIFFERENT LEVELS.
LEVEL ONE FORCE IS THE MOST SEVERE FORM OF FORCE.
AND AS YOU SEE HERE, IT'S REFLECTED THE PERCENT OF OVERALL FORCE THAT'S REPORTED AS A LEVEL ONE IS LESS THAN 1%.
SO THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT AND AN EXCELLENT STATISTIC, UM, TO BE ABLE TO PUT UP THERE.
UM, AND THEN THE LEVEL OF SEVERITY, UH, INCREASES AS YOU INCREASE THE LEVEL.
SO LEVEL TWOS ARE MORE, UM, CONSIDERED MORE SERIOUS THAN LEVELS THREE AND LEVEL FOURS.
UM, LEVEL FOUR IS THE INTERESTING ONE FOR ME.
UM, MANY, MANY AGENCIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY DO NOT REPORT, UH, AT LEVEL FOUR THE WAY THAT THE AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT DOES.
AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT IN JUST A MOMENT.
THE IMPLICATIONS, UM, FOR THAT, FOR YOUR AGENCY.
THE OTHER THING, UM, THAT WE ALWAYS LIKE TO JUST TAKE A LOOK AT IS THERE ARE SOMETIMES WHEN FORCE IS USED, BUT AN ARREST IS NOT MADE.
AND THAT CAN BE BECAUSE THE PERSON'S TRANSPORTED, FOR EXAMPLE, TO A HOSPITAL OR A MENTAL HEALTH FACILITY.
BUT IN, WE ALSO LOOK AT, OF THE ARRESTS THAT ARE MADE, WHAT PERCENT OF THOSE ARRESTS RESULT IN THE USE OF FORCE OF THAT INDIVIDUAL ARRESTEE? AND WHAT WE CAN SEE HERE IS CONSISTENCY OVER TIME.
THAT'S THE GOOD NEWS, RIGHT? SO PRETTY MUCH YOU'RE LOOKING AT ANYWHERE FROM, YOU KNOW, UH, 9% TO APPROXIMATELY 11% OF ARRESTEES THAT HAVE FOUR SHOES AGAINST THEM.
UM, THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT THIS, HOWEVER, IS THAT MANY OF THE AGENCIES THAT I WORK IN, YOU SEE THESE NUMBERS, THESE PERCENT OF ARRESTEES THAT HAVE FORCE USED AGAINST THEM THAT ARE MUCH LOWER, LOOKING AT FIVE TO 6% RATHER THAN THE NINE, 10, 11%, UM, THAT WE SEE IN THE AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT.
AND SO THAT WAS ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT MADE ME VERY CURIOUS ABOUT HOW FORCES MEASURED AND COUNTED IN THE AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT, BECAUSE THIS WAS UNUSUAL.
UH, AND WHAT I'VE REALIZED IS THAT THE LEVEL FOURS, WHICH ARE THE LEAST SEVERE USES OF FORCE, UM, ARE LIKELY CONTRIBUTING TO THIS PERCENTAGE.
AND THAT IS BECAUSE IF THERE, UM, IS IF WHEN A SUBJECT IS TAKEN, UM, UNDER ARREST, UM, AND THERE'S HANDCUFFING AND OTHER PROCEDURES THAT ARE DONE, UH, VERY MINOR, MINOR INTERACTIONS BETWEEN THE OFFICER AND THE SUBJECT ARE COUNTED BY THE AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT AS FORCE, WHICH IS WHY YOU SEE THESE ELEVATED PERCENTAGES HERE.
AND, UM, I HAVE WITH ME, UM, ASSISTANT CHIEF,
[00:15:01]
UH, MIKE CHANCELLOR, WHO'S GONNA SPEAK TO THIS, UH, IN JUST A FEW MOMENTS HERE, SPECIFICALLY WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THOSE DIFFERENT LEVELS OF FORCE.UM, BUT BEFORE WE DO THAT, I WANNA GO INTO THE DATA ISSUES A LITTLE BIT, UM, IN, IN MORE DETAIL.
SO THE USE OF FORCE DATA ISSUES, ONE OF THE PROBLEMS, ONE OF THE ISSUES HERE IS HOW WE COUNT FORCE.
SO IF YOU THINK ABOUT THIS HERE, AND I'M, I'M GONNA TRY NOT TO BORE YOU, RIGHT? I'M A STATISTICIAN BY TRAINING, BUT I'LL TRY
UH, BUT WE, WE TALK ABOUT, AND WE THINK ABOUT A UNIT OF ANALYSIS.
NOW, A UNIT OF ANALYSIS REALLY DEFINES WHO OR WHAT IS BEING EXAMINED.
THAT'S ALL WE MEAN BY A UNIT OF ANALYSIS.
AND LET ME GIVE YOU, UH, AN EXAMPLE THAT WE CAN ALL RELATE TO, IF YOU WANNA KNOW ABOUT OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM.
AND YOU WANNA LOOK AT CHILDREN'S, UH, PROGRESS IN SCHOOLS, FOR EXAMPLE, RIGHT? AND YOU WANNA BETTER UNDERSTAND THAT YOU COULD DO A STUDY THAT LOOKED AT INDIVIDUAL CHILDREN.
SO THE CHILDREN IN THE SCHOOL IS YOUR UNIT OF ANALYSIS, AND YOU COULD DETERMINE, UH, HOW, HOW THEY'RE PERFORMING, FOR EXAMPLE.
BUT THOSE CHILDREN, LET'S SAY 20 IN A CLASS, HAVE THE SAME TEACHER.
THAT TEACHER HAS MULTIPLE CLASSES.
SO IT MIGHT BE AT THE TEACHER LEVEL THAT YOU REALLY WANNA BETTER UNDERSTAND EDUCATION, AND THEREFORE YOU WOULD MEASURE AT THE TEACHER LEVEL, THOSE TEACHERS ALL THEN WORK IN THE SAME SCHOOL.
AND IT MIGHT BE AT THE SCHOOL DISTRICT LEVEL THAT YOU REALLY WANNA UNDERSTAND WHAT THE PERFORMANCE INDICATORS ARE.
AND OF COURSE, THAT SCHOOL DISTRICT IS LOCATED IN A STATE WHERE YOU WOULD WANNA LOOK AT IT THAT WAY.
SO YOU CAN THINK ABOUT DIFFERENT RESEARCH QUESTIONS THAT YOU WOULD ASK, AND DIFFERENT UNITS OF ANALYSIS THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS.
UNFORTUNATELY, HERE, WITH THE USE OF FORCE, THE UNIT OF ANALYSIS FOR MANY OF THE EXTERNAL REPORTS THAT ARE DONE, INCLUDING THE OPEN DATA PORTAL, IS SOMETIMES INAPPROPRIATE AND CAN BE MISLEADING.
UH, AND I'LL, UM, I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE VERY SPECIFICALLY FOR THE USE OF FORCE.
SO THIS IS A, A CHART, UM, THAT I PRODUCED MANY YEARS AGO WHEN I WAS DOING A STUDY FOR THE LOUISVILLE METRO POLICE DEPARTMENT AND TAKING A LOOK TO SEE WHETHER OR NOT DEESCALATION TRAINING HAD AN IMPACT ON THEIR OFFICER'S USES OF FORCE.
AND SO WE NEEDED TO EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE WHAT DO WE, WHAT COUNTS AS FORCE? AND WHEN YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THIS HERE WITH THE UNIT OF ANALYSIS, YOU CAN SEE IF YOU HAVE AN INDIVIDUAL ENCOUNTER BETWEEN AN OFFICER AND, UM, AND A SUBJECT THAT CAN BE YOUR, YOUR MEASURE, YOUR UNIT OF FORCES, THAT INTERACTION IN THAT CASE, THERE WOULD BE ONE USE OF FORCE.
BUT IF YOU, LET'S SAY THAT PARTICULAR ENCOUNTER ACTUALLY INVOLVED TWO SUBJECTS, TWO PEOPLE WERE THERE, AND THEY BOTH HAD FORCE USED AGAINST THEM.
NOW YOUR USE OF FORCE IS TWO, IT'S A COUNT OF TWO.
IT COULD BE THAT THE OFFICERS USE MULTIPLE ACTIONS AS PART OF THAT FORCE.
SO IT'S NOT JUST ONE TYPE OF FORCE THAT'S USED, BUT MULTIPLE TYPES OF FORCE.
IN THIS HYPOTHETICAL EXAMPLE, THERE ARE SIX, THEN DIFFERENT USES OF FORCE.
AND THEN OF COURSE, YOU CAN THINK ABOUT IT AT THE OFFICER LEVEL, AND YOU CAN THINK, WELL, THERE WERE THREE OFFICERS THAT WERE THERE.
AND SO THE NUMBER, THE COUNT OF FORCE IS BY OFFICER IN THIS CASE, UH, THAT WOULD BE, UM, THE THREE WOULD BE THE TOTAL.
SO YOU CAN SEE VERY QUICKLY WHEN SOMEONE ASKS YOU HOW MUCH USE OF FORCE YOU HAVE, DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU MEASURE IT, THE ANSWER IS DIFFERENT.
AND THAT IS THE CASE, UH, FOR THE AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT FOR YOU FOLKS.
UM, IN 2024, AS I MENTIONED, UM, PREVIOUSLY YOU HAD JUST UNDER 3000, UH, SUBJECTS THAT HAD FORCE USED AGAINST THEM.
BUT IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT AS, UM, HOW IT'S MEASURED HERE, WHICH IS AT THE REPORT LEVEL.
SO IF A REPORT IS TAKEN BY AN OFFICER ABOUT A RESPONSE TO RESISTANCE, IT CAN GO ACROSS THE NUMBER OF SUBJECTS.
AND SO IN THIS CASE, FOR YOUR OPEN DATA PORTAL FOR CLOSE TO 3000 INDIVIDUALS THAT HAD FORCE USED AGAINST THEM, YOU PUT THAT OUT PUBLICLY AS 6,301, YOU NEARLY YOU MORE THAN DOUBLE THE NUMBER, THE COUNTS OF USE OF FORCE.
NOW, THAT'S NOT TO SAY THAT THAT COUNT IS WRONG, BUT RATHER HOW YOU INTERPRET IT AND WHAT IT MEANS TO THE PUBLIC IS VERY DIFFERENT, RIGHT? SO WHEN WE'RE THINKING ABOUT, AND MOST AGENCIES, UM, AND RESEARCHERS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, AGAIN, DEPENDING ON THE SPECIFIC THING THAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT AND INTERESTED IN, WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT THE COUNTS OF USE OF FORCE, MOST OF THEM USE THAT INDIVIDUAL OR THE SUBJECT LEVEL, HOW MANY PEOPLE HAD FORCE USED AGAINST THEM.
THAT IS THE TYPICAL MEASURE THAT'S USED.
NOW, INTERNALLY, THE AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT SHOULD BE LOOKING AT, WELL, WHICH OFFICERS AND HOW MANY OFFICERS ARE HAVING FORCED USE? AND THAT'S APPROPRIATE FOR A DIFFERENT QUESTION, RIGHT? BUT FOR THE QUESTION FOR THE PUBLIC AND HOW WE TALK ABOUT AND THINK ABOUT FORCE REALLY SHOULD BE AT THE INDIVIDUAL OR THE SUBJECT LEVEL.
SO THAT'S ONE OF OUR, OUR FIRST ISSUES.
A SECOND ISSUE IS THAT THE MEASURES OF FORCE INCLUDE ACTIONS THAT ARE NOT TYPICALLY REPORTED BY MANY OTHER
[00:20:01]
AGENCIES AND NOT CONSIDERED BEST PRACTICE ACROSS THE COUNTRY AS A RESULT.AND THIS IS WHERE I'M GONNA ASK, UM, MY COLLEAGUE, UH, ASSISTANT CHIEF MIKE, UH, CHANCELLOR, TO COME UP AND HELP EXPLAIN THE DIFFERENT LEVELS OF FORCE AND WHY, UM, WE'RE PARTICULARLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE INCONSISTENCY IN REPORTING OF LEVEL FOUR FORCE.
SO I HAVE HERE FOR YOU FOLKS THE DIFFERENT LEVELS.
THESE ARE SUMMARIES, UH, PULLED OUT OF THE A PD POLICY REGARDING THE DIFFERENT, AND THEY REFER TO IT AS RESPONSE TO RESISTANCE RATHER THAN USE OF FORCE.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING ELSE THAT I'LL MENTION AS A, AS A CHANGE IN THE TERMINOLOGY RECOMMENDATION.
UM, BUT NONETHELESS, THESE ARE THE DIFFERENT LEVELS THAT ARE HERE.
BUT I BRING YOUR ATTENTION SPECIFICALLY TO LEVEL FOUR.
AND, UM, CHIEF, IF YOU'LL JOIN ME UP HERE AND DESCRIBE JUST A LITTLE BIT WHAT WE MEAN BY THIS LEVEL FOUR FORCE.
ENGEL, AND THANK Y'ALL FOR LETTING ME COME SPEAK.
SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT A LEVEL THREE AND FOUR, WE CREATED A LEVEL FOUR AND SEPARATED OUT OF THE LEVEL THREE MANY YEARS AGO.
AND SINCE THEN, WE'VE CREATED DIFFERENT POLICY, DIFFERENT PROCESS FOR REVIEWING USE OF FORCE.
ALL LEVEL THREES AND LEVEL FOURS ARE REVIEWED IN THE EXACT SAME MANNER.
OKAY? SO WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH THE, THE LEVEL FOUR IS THAT, THAT RIGHT NOW IS PRESSURE POINTS, WHICH WE'RE GONNA MOVE INTO THE LEVEL THREE CATEGORY SO THAT IT STILL GETS CAPTURED AND THE OTHER THINGS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT CLEARING UP.
BUT THINGS THAT ARE, UH, TRICKY AND DIFFICULT FOR SUPERVISORS TO GO LOOK AT AND FIGURE OUT, WELL, WAS THIS A USE FORCE? WAS IT NOT? AND SO WHEN YOU HAVE SOMEONE THAT INITIALLY HOLDS THEIR ARM OUT AND THEY'RE LIKE, OH, OH, I'M GETTING ARRESTED, WHICH I THINK WE WOULD ALL DO, RIGHT? YOU'RE GONNA TENSE UP IF YOU'RE GETTING ARRESTED AND THE OFFICER BRINGS THE ARM BEHIND THE BACK LIKE THIS.
SOMETIMES PEOPLE ARE SAYING, WELL, THAT WAS A USE OF FORCE, YOU KNOW, THEY TENSE THEIR ARM.
AND SO IT'S NOT A USE OF FORCE, IT'S THE MOMENT, IT'S THE MOMENT OF BEING ARRESTED WHERE WE'RE LIKE, OH, WAIT, AND YOU TENSE UP AND YOU HAVE IT, BUT YOU'RE NOT REALLY DOING ANYTHING.
THE OTHER ONE THAT'S REALLY BIG THAT WE DEAL WITH IS, UH, WHEN SOMEONE'S BEEN TAKEN TO THE GROUND BY ANOTHER OFFICER AND ANOTHER OFFICER RUNS UP AND THEY GRAB THE LEGS TO HOLD THEM AND SAY, HEY, I'VE GOT THE LEGS, I'M GONNA HOLD THEM SO THAT THEY CAN'T GO ANYWHERE RIGHT THERE.
AND SO THE PERSON'S NOT KICKING THEIR LEGS, THEY'RE NOT, UH, RESPONDING TO RESISTANCE OR ANYTHING, THEY'RE JUST HOLDING THE LEGS THERE.
AND SO THAT'S WHAT WE'VE BEEN KIND OF OVERREPORTING ON TO SOME EXTENT.
AND WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE CAPTURE EVERYTHING.
AND SO WITHIN OUR DEFINITIONS, IF YOU INJURE THE PERSON, IF THEY HAVE ANY KIND OF COMPLAINT OR PAIN OR ANYTHING THAT'S ALWAYS CAPTURED IN A LEVEL THREE RESPONSE TO RESISTANCE.
SO THIS IS REALLY JUST TRYING TO SEPARATE THOSE ISSUES WHERE IT'S HARD FOR A SUPERVISOR TO GO OUT THERE AND LOOK AT AND SEE IS THERE A USE OF FORCE OR NOT HERE.
AND I'LL INVITE, UM, ASSISTANT CHIEF, UH, CHANCELLOR TO JOIN ME, UM, FOR QUESTIONS TOO.
UM, IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, UM, FOLLOWING THE PRESENTATION, UM, THE, THE NEXT ISSUE REGARDING THE COUNTING OF FORCE IS WE, WE FOUND THIS, AND AGAIN, THIS IS JUST A CLEANUP OF THE DATA, UM, ISSUE, BUT A DOUBLE COUNTING ACROSS SECTORS.
SO IF AN OFFICER IS ASSIGNED, LET'S SAY, UM, TO BAKER, UH, SECTOR, RIGHT? YOU HAVE A BAKER, CORRECT? WHAT'S BAKER NEXT TO? HELP ME OUT GEOGRAPHIC.
SO IF, UM, AN OFFICER IN BAKER SECTOR, UH, GOES OVER INTO GEORGE SECTOR AND ASSISTS ON AN R TWO R, UH, AND FILLS OUT A REPORT, UNFORTUNATELY, IN SOME CIRCUMSTANCES, THAT GETS COUNTED IN GEORGE AND IN BAKER, SAME INCIDENT, RIGHT? BECAUSE THE OFFICER IS REPORTING TO A DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONAL UNIT.
SO THESE ARE, AGAIN, CLEANUPS THAT WE JUST HAVE TO MAKE WHERE, AND AS WE DIVE INTO THE DATA, WE'RE UNDERSTANDING AND FINDING THESE THINGS.
AND SO IN THAT PARTICULAR CASE, YOU WOULD HAVE TWO R TWO RS, WHEN REALLY IT SHOULD BE ONE R TWO R.
UM, WE ALSO FOUND THAT THERE ARE INCONSISTENCIES BASED ON THE DATE THAT THE DATA IS ACCESSED.
SO, UH, AGAIN, WE WOULD EXPECT A DATA LAG.
UM, THAT'S TRUE FOR ANY TYPE OF REPORTS, CRIME REPORTS, EVERYTHING.
THERE'S, YOU KNOW, YOU WOULD EXPECT CERTAIN NUMBER OF WEEKS WHERE THE DATA, UM, IS NOW THE FILES ARE FINALLY GETTING THERE.
IT'S WORKING ITS WAY THROUGH THE SYSTEM AND IT ENDS UP IN THE MASTER DATABASE.
UH, BUT WHAT WE HAVE FOUND IS THAT IF WE GO BACK, LET'S SAY TO 2023, WHERE WE WOULD EXPECT THAT THOSE NUMBERS WOULD NOT CHANGE WHEN THOSE NUMBERS WERE PULLED.
FOR EXAMPLE, AT THE BEGINNING IN JANUARY, LET'S SAY IN JANUARY, WE PULLED THE 2023 DATA, AND THEN WE PULLED IT AGAIN HERE IN MAY.
WE KNOW THERE'S A DATA LAG, WE DON'T KNOW HOW LONG THE DATA LAG IS.
UM, AND IT'S DIFFICULT TO MEASURE BECAUSE THE DATA IS JUST FILLED IN, BUT THEN THERE'S NOT A RECORD OF WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE BEFORE.
SO WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO SORT THIS OUT AND UNDERSTAND THE TIMING OF THAT DATA LAG, UH, AND PUTTING IN PLACE SOME
[00:25:01]
MECHANISMS SO THAT WE CAN MEASURE THE LAG.SO WE'LL KNOW HOW LONG IT IS, WHAT'S CAUSING IT, TRY TO CLEAN THAT UP, BUT THEN ALSO UNDERSTAND AT WHAT POINT DO WE HAVE CONSISTENT USE OF FORCE COUNTS THAT WE CAN FEEL THAT ARE RELIABLE AND VALID, THAT WE CAN MAKE PUBLIC, UM, AND, AND USE FOR ACCOUNTABILITY PURPOSES.
ADDITIONAL DATA, UH, USE ISSUES INCLUDE INCONSISTENCIES ACROSS THE A PD UNITS.
SO THERE ARE MULTIPLE UNITS WITHIN A PD THAT ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE OVERSIGHT FUNCTION AND MECHANISMS, UM, TO, TO REALLY MAKE SURE, UH, THAT WE, THAT WE HAVE A VERY ROBUST ACCOUNTABILITY SYSTEM.
UNFORTUNATELY, WHEN THAT HAPPENS, SOMETIMES THESE UNITS DON'T HAVE THE SAME INFORMATION AND OR MEASURING IT DIFFERENTLY.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE'VE FOUND WITH THE FORCE REVIEW UNIT AND THE RESEARCH AND PLANNING UNIT.
SOMETIMES THEIR NUMBERS, THEIR COUNT OF FORCE AND THEIR R TWO R REPORTING DO NOT MATCH.
AND SO IF WE'RE NOT MATCHING INTERNALLY, THEN YOU CAN IMAGINE, UM, THAT WHEN WE SHARE THIS DATA WITH THE OFFICE OF, UH, POLICE, UH, OVERSIGHT AND ACCOUNTABILITY, UM, THAT WE, THOSE NUMBERS THAT ARE GOING TO OPO MAY OR MAY NOT REFLECT THE UP-TO-DATE INFORMATION FROM A PD, WHICH IS WHY I, UM, ASKED DIRECTOR MCCANN, UM, IF WE COULD PAUSE ON THE REPORTING OF THAT DATA TO OPO, JUST BRIEFLY WHILE WE TEASE THIS OUT, UNDERSTAND WHAT THE ISSUES ARE, AND THEN GO BACK TO OUR REPORTING SCHEDULE.
UM, AND AGAIN, SHE, UM, IS WELL AWARE OF THESE ISSUES AND ALSO HAS, UH, ONE OF HER STAFF MEMBERS THAT'S SERVING ON OUR TASK FORCE THAT'S DESIGNED TO TAKE A LOOK AT THIS AND FIX THESE ISSUES.
FINALLY, THE DATA ANALYSES THAT HAVE BEEN CONDUCTED IN THE PAST, UH, FOR A PD ARE, ARE RUDIMENTARY.
THEY'RE INCONSISTENT, AND SOMETIMES THEY ARE INACCURATE.
AND I THINK THAT'S QUITE HONESTLY, IT'S A TRAINING ISSUE FOR THE A PD STAFF.
YOU DON'T ALWAYS NEED AN OUTSIDE EXPERT TO BE ABLE TO COME IN AND DO THESE DATA ANALYSIS.
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT CAN BE TRAINED AND IT CAN BE WELL DONE IN POLICE DEPARTMENTS.
IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TRAINING, UM, THE STAFF TO BE ABLE TO ANALYZE THE, THE ANALYSTS THAT ARE THERE.
UH, THEY JUST NEED TO BE TRAINED HOW TO DO THIS.
AND SO THAT'S SOMETHING WE'RE WORKING TOWARDS.
WE ALL KNOW THAT WE NEED TO ENSURE DATA INTEGRITY.
'CAUSE YOU'VE ALL HEARD, YOU'VE ALL HEARD THE OLD SAYING GARBAGE IN, GARBAGE OUT, RIGHT? WE KNOW THAT THAT'S THE CASE.
UM, SO WHEN, HOW THAT REPLIES TO, UH, USE OF FORCE SPECIFICALLY IS WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT ONE, WE'RE COLLECTING INFORMATION FOR ALL USE OF FORCE.
UH, SECONDLY, THAT THE DATA THAT'S CAPTURED ARE COMPLETE, THAT THERE'S NO MISSING DATA, WHETHER IT'S INTENTIONAL OR ACCIDENTAL, AND THAT THE DATA THAT ARE CAPTURED ARE FREE FROM ERROR.
SO WE NEED INTERNAL CONSISTENCY AND RELIABILITY.
THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE ARE STRIVING FOR.
WHEN WE HAVE THREATS TO DEGRA TO DATA INTEGRITY, THAT'S WHEN WE SEE THAT OFFICERS ARE USING DIFFERENT CRITERIA FOR WHICH ACTIONS REQUIRE COLLECTION.
AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE SEEING AT A PD, PARTICULARLY WITH THE LEVEL FOUR, BECAUSE THEY'RE VERY SUBJECTIVE OF WHAT COUNTS AS FORCE.
SO THAT'S WHERE WE SEE THIS INCONSISTENCY ACROSS OFFICERS, UM, AND ACROSS SECTORS.
WE ALSO NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT DATA COLLECTION SYSTEM ALLOWS, UM, UH, I'M SORRY, THAT SHOULD SAY, UH, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT IT DOESN'T ALLOW FOR DATA ENTRY ERRORS.
UM, AND IF IT DOES ALLOW FOR DATA ENTRY ERRORS, OBVIOUSLY THAT'S AN ISSUE.
UH, AND THEN FINALLY, AGAIN, THAT POINT OF OFFICERS INTERPRETING THE SPECIFIC DATA POINTS, NOT JUST WHETHER OR NOT IT'S FORCE, BUT ALSO ALL THE QUESTIONS THAT THEY ASK AND ANSWER ABOUT THE USE OF FORCE, UM, DURING THAT INCIDENT.
WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL OF THAT IS CONSIDERED OR IS, UH, COLLECTED ACCURATELY.
SO THIS IS JUST AN EASY GRAPHIC TO TAKE A LOOK AT.
THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE TO PRESERVE DATA INTEGRITY, THAT WE'RE MEASURING THINGS AS WE SHOULD, UM, THAT WE HAVE ALL OF THESE VALIDATED INPUT, REMOVING DUPLICATE DATA ACCESS CONTROLS, UH, VALIDATING DATA, BACKING UP DATA, AND ALWAYS KEEPING AN AUDIT TRAIL.
AND I CAN TELL YOU JUST FROM THE, JUST FROM LOOKING AT THE USE OF FORCE, UH, RIGHT NOW, I'M, I'M GIVING US SOME BIG RED XS HERE THAT WE NEED SOME ASSISTANCE AND SOME CHANGES FOR THESE SYSTEMS IN PARTICULAR.
THE, THE LAST TWO I HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT, I'M NOT QUITE SURE.
UM, AND I DON'T WANNA PUT A BIG RED X WHEN, WHEN ACTUALLY WE DO HAVE SYSTEMS IN PLACE THAT ARE ACCURATELY DOING THAT.
UH, SO THAT'S, UM, WHAT WE HAVE, UM, AS THE DATA ISSUE SPECIFICALLY.
BUT AS I MENTIONED, CHIEF DAVIS ASKED ME TO TAKE A HOLISTIC LOOK, RIGHT? IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT THE DATA, ALTHOUGH THE DATA'S OBVIOUSLY VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT DIRECTS US TO THE THINGS THAT WE NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT IN MORE DETAIL.
BUT THOSE THINGS INCLUDE POLICY AND TRAINING AND FIRST LINE
[00:30:01]
SUPERVISORS AND ACCOUNTABILITY MECHANISMS. AND SO SHE ASKED ME TO TAKE A LOOK AT ALL OF THESE THINGS, UM, AND AS A RESULT, ONE OF THE FIRST RECOMMENDATIONS I BROUGHT BACK TO HER IS I SAID, LOOK, I'M FINDING SOME INCONSISTENCIES.I THINK WE SHOULD CREATE AN INTERNAL A PD USE OF FORCE TASK FORCE, AND THAT TASK FORCE, WHILE IT'S INTERNAL, I WOULD BE A PART OF IT AS WELL AND HELP GUIDE, UM, THIS MOVING FORWARD.
SO THAT'S ONE OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS.
I'LL TALK MORE SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THAT TASK FORCE IN A MOMENT.
I ALSO RECOMMENDED THAT THERE WOULD BE A REORGANIZATION OF THE PATROL COMMANDERS UNDER ONE ASSISTANT CHIEF.
UH, BEFORE THAT, THE DIFFERENT SECTORS WERE REPORTING TO DIFFERENT ASSISTANT CHIEFS, WHICH JUST, UM, JUST BY THE NATURE OF IT, THAT'S GONNA PROVIDE INCONSISTENCIES IN, UM, SORT OF THAT OVERSIGHT AND ACCOUNTABILITY FUNCTION.
AND SO IT'S BETTER TO HAVE ALL OF YOUR PATROL SECTORS TO REPORTING TO ONE ASSISTANT CHIEF SO THAT SOMEONE HAS THEIR EYES ACROSS THE SECTORS AND ARE LOOKING TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S CONSISTENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY.
UM, AND THERE HAVE BEEN OTHER ORGANIZATIONAL CHANGES AS WELL.
AND NOW THERE IS ONE ASSISTANT CHIEF THAT HAS ALL OF THE PATROL SECTORS, UM, UNDER THEIR PURVIEW.
I ALSO RECOMMENDED ADJUSTMENTS TO PROCESSES AND PROCEDURES AND THE AUTHORITY OF THE FORCE REVIEW UNIT.
WE'RE JUST GETTING STARTED ON THAT.
YOU KNOW, THIS IS AN IMPORTANT MECHANISM FOR ACCOUNTABILITY, BUT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT IT WORKS.
AND THAT'S, UM, SOME OF THE, OF THE ISSUES THAT WE'LL BE DEALING WITH, WITH THE TASK FORCE.
IN ADDITION, UH, I RECOMMENDED THE DEVELOPMENT AND IMPLEMENTATION OF AN OVERALL STRATEGIC PLAN FOR THE CONSISTENT CULTURE OF DEESCALATION ACROSS SECTORS.
NOW, THIS IS BIG, SORT OF THAT GLOBAL, AS YOU KNOW, I'M AN ACADEMIC, OF COURSE, I WANNA STRATEGIC PLAN.
BUT WHAT WE REALLY NEED TO BE THINKING ABOUT IS HOW DO WE CHANGE THE CULTURE? HOW DO WE INGRAIN DEESCALATION AS, UH, NOT JUST ACCEPTABLE BUT EXPECTED WITHIN THE A PD, RIGHT? THAT THIS IS HOW WE RESPOND TO, TO INCIDENTS INVOLVING PERSONS IN CRISIS.
AND SO THERE'S A WHOLE HOST OF THINGS THAT WE CAN DO THERE.
THIS IS, THIS IS A MUCH LARGER, AND THIS IS PROBABLY SOMETHING THAT THE TASK FORCE WILL TAKE ON, UM, ALONG THE WAY WHILE THEY'RE CLEANING UP SOME OF THE OTHER LOW HANGING FRUIT THAT WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US, UM, TO BE ABLE TO, UM, TO ADVANCE OUR WORK.
UH, AGAIN, I RECOMMENDED VERY STRONGLY THAT WE REEXAMINE REPORTABLE FORCE CATEGORIES AND REALLY FOCUS ON THAT.
LEVEL FOUR, CLEAN IT UP, AND MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S CONSISTENCY, UH, IN THAT REPORTING.
AND THAT WILL REQUIRE, BY THE WAY, A CHANGE TO POLICY AND ALSO WHAT IS REPORTED AS FORCE.
UH, THIS IS A MINOR, UH, RECOMMENDATION, BUT NONETHELESS, I THINK A SYMBOLIC AND IMPORTANT ONE, UH, BECAUSE, I'M SORRY, NOT JUST SYMBOLIC, BUT IMPORTANT, CHANGING THAT TERMINOLOGY.
UH, RIGHT NOW IT'S REFERRED TO AS RESPONSE TO RESISTANCE.
IT'S A RESPONSE TO RESISTANCE FORM.
BUT WE ALL KNOW THAT SOMETIMES FORCE CAN AND IS USED, UH, AGAINST SUBJECTS.
THAT'S NOT A RESPONSE TO THEIR RESISTANCE.
I THINK WE JUST NEED TO BE HONEST ABOUT THAT.
UM, AND THINK ABOUT THIS AS USE OF FORCE.
AND SO CHANGING THAT TERMINOLOGY, I BELIEVE WILL BE IMPORTANT AND SET US ON THE RIGHT PATH.
WE CERTAINLY NEED, UH, AN EXTERNAL USE OF FORCE DATA AUDIT, BUT I THINK WE NEED A LARGER DATA AUDIT.
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT COULD BE WRAPPED TOGETHER WITH OTHER THINGS.
IF WE FIND INCONSISTENCY IN DATA AND REPORTING FOR USE OF FORCE, UM, AND ALSO IN ARRESTS, I'M SURE THAT THERE ARE OTHER AREAS AS WELL THAT WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT AND MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE GETTING, UH, VALUABLE INFORMATION.
AND AGAIN, I RECOMMEND IT TO THE CHIEF AT THE TIME THAT SHE SUSPEND ALL PUBLIC REPORTING OF THE USE OF FORCE PATTERNS AND TRENDS AND DATA UNTIL WE UNDERSTAND VERY CLEARLY WHAT THE ISSUES ARE AND BEGIN TO CLEAN THESE THINGS UP AND THEN PUT THEM BACK OUT, UH, FOR PUBLIC, UH, EXAMINATION.
AND THAT INCLUDES THE HISTORICAL, UH, RESPONSE TO RESISTANCE REPORTS FROM 2019 THROUGH 2022.
UH, BY THE WAY, THE 2023 REPORT HAS NOT BEEN RELEASED.
UM, AND SO WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SET THAT AS THE TEMPLATE EXAMPLE FOR WHAT WE WILL BE DOING MOVING FORWARD.
SO THE 2023 REPORT AND THE 2024 REPORT WILL COME OUT AT THE SAME TIME.
THEY WILL THEN BE USED AS THOSE TEMPLATES, AND I'LL HELP TO TRAIN THAT STAFF MOVING FORWARD.
UH, THE RECOMMENDATION WAS MADE TO PARTNER WITH AN EXTERNAL TEAM FOR THAT ANNUAL USE OF FORCE REPORTS.
UH, AGAIN, MY, MY GOAL IS NOT TO BE HERE FOREVER, BUT RATHER TO TRAIN THE STAFF SO THAT THEY CAN DO THIS THEMSELVES.
SO THAT FIRST TEMPLATE WILL GO, AND THEN YOU'LL HAVE INTERNAL CAPACITY TO DO THE WORK.
AND THEN FINALLY, A REVIEW OF ICA.
ICA STANDS FOR INTEGRATING COMMUNICATIONS ASSESSMENTS AND TACTICS.
IT IS YOUR DEESCALATION TRAINING THAT'S USED IN THE ACADEMY, UM, AND, UH, AND IN SERVICE
[00:35:01]
TRAINING AND THAT DEESCALATION TRAINING AND OTHER USE OF FORCE TRAINING.WE WANNA TAKE A LOOK AT THAT, UM, AND MAKE SURE THAT IT'S BUILDING THE INTERNAL CULTURE THAT WE WANT TO SEE.
SO WITH THAT, UH, THIS TASK FORCE THAT WE'VE PUT TOGETHER, I KEEP ALLUDING TO THIS.
I'M A CO-CHAIR WITH TWO ASSISTANT CHIEFS, UM, MIKE CHANCELLOR, WHO YOU'VE JUST HEARD FROM, AND ALSO, UH, ASSISTANT CHIEF LEE ROGERS.
I DON'T THINK THAT CHIEF ROGERS IS HERE TODAY.
UM, BUT THE THREE OF US HAVE BEEN WORKING HARD.
WE'VE PUT THIS, UM, TASK FORCE TOGETHER.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I ASKED THE CHIEF FOR WAS PERMISSION TO REACH INTO ALL PARTS OF THE AGENCY AND NOT JUST TO THE COMMAND STAFF.
I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE UNDERSTAND THE PERSPECTIVE AT THE FIRST LINE SUPERVISOR LEVEL, AND ALSO AT THE OFFICER LEVEL WHEN WE ARE TAKING A DEEP DIVE, UH, INTO UNDERSTANDING ALL ASPECTS OF USE OF FORCE.
AND SO YOU CAN SEE HERE WE DO HAVE CHIEF OF STAFF.
ROBIN HENDERSON IS HERE WITH US.
SHE ALSO SERVES AS A MEMBER, UM, ON THIS COMMITTEE.
BUT YOU CAN SEE A LOT OF DIFFERENT EXPERTISE OF THIS GROUP.
UH, S IS FROM THE, UH, BUSINESS.
SHE'S A BUSINESS INTELLIGENCE ANALYST, AND SHE'S ONE OF THE ONES THAT I'M TRAINING, UM, TO BE ABLE TO DO THESE ANALYSES, UM, FOR THE A PD THEMSELVES.
UM, AND THEN ALSO OF NOTE, KEVIN MASTERS, UM, IS FROM OPO AND WAS SELECTED, UM, BY DIRECTOR MCCANN TO SERVE ON THIS COMMITTEE.
AND SO WE HAVE MET SEVERAL TIMES.
WE'RE DOING A LOT OF WORK, UH, AND MOVING FORWARD, I'M VERY EXCITED ABOUT THE WORK THAT WE'VE DONE.
ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT WE TOOK ON WAS A FOCUS ON LEVEL FOUR FORCE, AS I MENTIONED TO YOU PREVIOUSLY.
SO WE'VE REVIEWED OVER A DOZEN PEER AGENCIES, AND ACTUALLY, WHEN I SAID OVER A DOZEN, WHEN I ACTUALLY COUNTED 'EM UP, IT WAS 26 DIFFERENT AGENCIES THAT WE'VE TAKEN A LOOK AT TO UNDERSTAND THEIR USE OF FORCE POLICIES, THEIR REPORTABLE FORCE AND THEIR REVIEW PROCESS.
SO WE'RE TAKING A LOOK AT PEER AGENCIES TO SEE AND CONFIRM WHAT OTHER AGENCIES ARE DOING.
WHAT WE SEE IS A LOT OF INCONSISTENCY IN, IN HOW AGENCIES DEAL WITH THE, BOTH THE COLLECTION AND THE, THE REPORTING OF, OF USE OF FORCE.
UM, BUT NONETHELESS, WE HAVE SOME THINGS THAT STAND OUT AS PRETTY CONSISTENT AND BEST PRACTICES ACROSS, AND WE'D LIKE TO BE ABLE TO START MODELING THOSE.
SO WITH OUR GROUP, UM, LOOKING AT A REVIEW SPECIFICALLY OF THE AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT, WE'RE LOOKING AT OUR USE OF FORCE POLICIES, ALL THE REPORTABLE FORCE CATEGORIES.
AGAIN, LOOKING AT TRAINING, ACCOUNTABILITY AND OVERSIGHT MECHANISMS FOR FORCE LEVELS.
AND WE REALLY ALWAYS WANNA KEEP IN MIND THE GUIDING PRINCIPLE FOR ALL OF THIS WORK, AND THIS IS DIRECTLY FROM CHIEF DAVIS, IS WHAT IS THE IMPACT ON OUR COMMUNITY? AND WE NEED TO KEEP THAT AT THE FOREFRONT OF ALL OF THE WORK THAT WE'RE DOING.
UM, AND THEN ME AS THE, AS THE DATA NERD, I ALSO WANNA SAY, WELL, WHAT'S THE IMPACT ON THE DATA ANALYSIS AND HOW CAN WE MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE REPORTING WHAT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENING, UH, IN THE FIELD? SO AGAIN, TAKING A LOOK AT THESE USE OF FORCE COUNTS, UM, AND THAT LEVEL FOUR, YOU'RE LOOKING AT ALMOST 40%.
UM, IN SOME, IN SOME YEARS, IT IS, UH, HIGHER THAN 40%, UH, THAT FALL INTO THE LEVEL FOUR CATEGORY THAT WE JUST WANNA TAKE A CLOSE LOOK AT.
NOW, THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT WE ARE NOT GONNA BE REPORTING THE LEVEL FOURS OR ANY OF THEM THAT THIS NUMBER JUST GOES AWAY.
WE'RE LOOKING AT DIFFERENT ALTERNATIVES, EITHER COLLAPSING THEM INTO LEVEL THREE, UM, AND OR FOR SOME OF THEM THINKING ABOUT THE TRAINING MECHANISMS SO THAT WE CAN HAVE CONSISTENCY AND SOME OF THE MOST MINOR, UM, THAT WOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED FORCE IN ANY OTHER JURISDICTION THAT WE THINK ABOUT THOSE AND DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THAT MAKES SENSE FOR THE CONTINUED REPORTING AS FORCE.
IT MIGHT BE THAT WE STILL WANT TO HAVE OUR SUPERVISORS KNOW AND UNDERSTAND, UM, AND BE ABLE TO REVIEW THAT.
BUT AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW, OUR FIRST LINE SUPERVISORS AREN'T SEEING THESE ANYWAY BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING IN A DIFFERENT REVIEW PROCESS.
SO THAT'S SOMETHING WE'RE TAKING A LOOK AT.
UM, AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I WANTED TO KNOW AND, AND, AND SAY, HEY, LISTEN, IF WE START LOOKING AT LEVEL FOUR AND, AND IF WE MAKE CHANGES TO IT, IS IT GONNA IMPACT OTHER TYPES OF ANALYSES? SO FOR EXAMPLE, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE CONSISTENTLY, UM, LOOK AT AND, AND TRY TO BETTER UNDERSTAND IS USE OF FORCE BY RACE OF THE SUBJECT THAT HAD FORCE USED AGAINST THEM.
AND WHAT I, THE REASON I'VE PUT THESE PERCENTAGES HERE, THIS IS THE PERCENT OF FORCE, UM, THAT WAS USED AGAINST WHITE, UM, SUBJECTS, BLACK SUBJECTS, HISPANIC AND OTHER.
AND WHAT YOU CAN SEE HERE IS THAT LEVELS ONE, TWO, AND THREE WHEN COMBINED COMPARED TO LEVEL FOUR, THESE, THESE PERCENTAGES LOOK VERY CLOSE.
UM, SO IF WE, IF WE MAKE SOME CHANGES TO LEVEL FOUR, IT'S NOT GOING TO SUDDENLY HAVE SOME TYPE OF IMPACT OF, WELL, YOU'RE ONLY, YOU'RE ONLY FOCUSING ON ONE RACIAL GROUP THAT THERE'S SOMETHING DIFFERENT OR NEFARIOUS GOING ON.
[00:40:01]
UM, JUST TO TAKE A LOOK HERE AT WHAT IT WOULD DO FOR YOUR DISPARITY RATIOS.NOW, A DISPARITY RATIO, IT'S A STATIST A STATISTICAL ANALYSIS THAT WE DO, BUT IT'S BASICALLY JUST A COMPARISON BETWEEN GROUPS.
UM, LOOKING AT THE MINORITY TO, COMPARED TO THE MAJORITY, COMPARED TO SOME BENCHMARK, WHAT WE WOULD EXPECT.
AND SO THE BENCHMARKS ARE, ARE TYPICALLY DONE.
UM, AND WHEN YOU DO USE OF FORCE ANALYSIS, WHAT I'VE PUT HERE WHEN YOU DO A BENCHMARK, ANYTHING OVER ONE IS CONSIDERED THAT THE MINORITY IN THIS CASE, THESE ARE BLACK DISPARITY RATIOS, BENCHMARKS, UM, ANYTHING OVER ONE, UH, THE BLACK CATEGORY OR, OR IN THIS CASE, BLACK SUSPECTS SUBJECTS ARE, UH, MORE LIKELY THAN WHITES UNDER ONE.
WHITES ARE MORE LIKELY THAN BLACKS.
UM, AND I TYPICALLY, YOU KNOW, YOU RULE OF THUMB FOR THIS STATISTICAL ANALYSIS, UNLESS IT'S 1.3 OR HIGHER, UH, I DON'T REALLY SEE MUCH, UH, UH OR ANY REAL STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT DISPARITY TO SPEAK OF.
SO THE GOOD NEWS IS, IS THAT ACROSS DIFFERENT BENCHMARKS, YOU ACTUALLY HAVE, UM, SITUATION WHERE YOU, YOU HAVE VERY LITTLE RACIAL AND ETHNIC DISPARITY, UM, AT ALL, UH, IN THE USE OF FORCE CURRENTLY AS MEASURED.
BUT ONE OF THE THINGS I WANTED TO TAKE A LOOK AT WAS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU, THE BLUE BAR IS ALL LEVELS ONE THROUGH FOUR.
WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU TOOK OUT OR CHANGED LEVEL FOUR? WOULD THAT CHANGE OUR INTERPRETATION OR OUR UNDERSTANDING OF RACIAL AND ETHNIC DISPARITIES IN THE USE OF FORCE? AND THE ANSWER IS, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE BLUE, COMPARED AGAIN TO THOSE GRAY BARS, YOU WOULD WANT TO SEE CONSISTENCY.
AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE SEE HERE.
SO I'M SURE YOUR EYES ARE GLOSSED OVER AT MY, UH, STATISTICS LESSON, AND SO MY APOLOGIES FOR THAT.
BUT TO TELL YOU WHAT OUR NEXT STEPS ARE, UM, FIRST WE'RE GONNA PROVIDE A SERIES OF RECOMMENDATIONS, UM, TO CHIEF DAVIS AND HER STAFF ABOUT REPORTABLE FORCE AND THE ASSOCIATED POLICY CHANGES.
SO IT'S NOT AS THOUGH THIS USE OF FORCE TASK FORCE IS JUST GONNA GO IN AND CHANGE THINGS.
WE'RE GONNA WRITE UP, UH, WHAT WE'D LIKE TO SEE CHANGED AND WHY.
AND IT'LL GO THROUGH A REVIEW PROCESS AT A PD, UM, INCLUDING SIGN OFF BY THE CHIEF.
WE'RE ALSO, THEN OUR NEXT STEP IS TO REALLY EXAMINE THAT ACCOUNTABILITY AND OVERSIGHT MECHANISMS, INCLUDING THAT FORCE REVIEW UNIT SPECIFICALLY.
AND, UM, I KNOW THAT ASSISTANT CHIEF CHANCELLOR CAN TELL YOU MUCH MORE ABOUT THAT FRU, UM, 'CAUSE HE WAS ONE OF THE INDIVIDUALS THAT HELPED CREATE IT, UH, IN 2021.
UH, WE WILL ALSO BE FOCUSING ON TRAINING AND FIRST LINE SUPERVISION IF WE'RE GONNA MAKE ANY CHANGES, OF COURSE, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE ARE APPROPRIATELY TRAINED AND THAT THE, THAT FIRST LINE SUPERVISOR IS THE MOST CRITICAL OF ALL PIECES.
AND SO WE'RE GONNA FOCUS VERY HEAVILY THERE.
WE'LL BE PARTICIPATING IN MORE OF A COMPREHENSIVE OVERALL DATA AUDIT, RE-ANALYZING THOSE USE OF FORCE DATA REPORTS AND REISSUING THE REPORTS, UH, FOR PREVIOUS YEARS WHERE WE FIND ERRORS AND INTRODUCING NEW REPORTS FOR 2023 AND 2024.
AND THEN FINALLY, UPDATING THE USE OF FORCE OPEN DATA PORTAL IS GONNA BE ONE OF OUR RECOMMENDATIONS.
UH, SO THAT THE UNIT OF ANALYSIS BACK TO OUR UNIT OF ANALYSIS AGAIN, SO THAT THE UNIT OF ANALYSIS, SO THAT OUR, SO THAT WHEN PEOPLE LOOK AT YOUR WEBSITE AND THEY WANNA PULL AND UNDERSTAND DATA AND INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH USE OF FORCE, THAT THEY'RE GETTING ACCURATE INFORMATION WITH CONTEXT AROUND IT.
IT REALLY SHOULD BE REPORTED AT THE SUBJECT LEVEL AND NOT AT THE R TWO R, UM, REPORT LEVEL, WHICH IS WHERE IT IS NOW, WHERE YOU ARE LITERALLY SUGGESTING YOU HAVE DOUBLE THE NUMBERS OF FORCE THAN YOU ACTUALLY DO WHEN YOU MEASURE IT BY SUSPECT OR SUBJECT.
SO I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE.
UM, THIS, UH, THIS WILL TAKE YOU TO, TO MY LINKEDIN PAGE IF YOU'D LIKE TO SEE MORE OF MY WORK.
UM, BUT OBVIOUSLY HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE AT THIS TIME, AND I MAY HAVE TO ASK THE CHIEF TO JOIN ME.
ENGEL, AND THANK YOU FOR, FOR THE VERY DETAILED, UH, INFORMATION ON THAT.
I, I HAD A FEW QUESTIONS BEFORE I PASS IT OFF, COLLEAGUES, IF Y'ALL INDULGE ME.
UM, HOW, UH, I READ IN SOME OF THE BACKGROUND THAT YOU, YOU HAVE, UH, OVER 30 YEARS EXPERIENCE IN THIS TYPE OF WORK.
ABOUT HOW OFTEN ARE THESE USE OF FORCE REPORTS INITIATED, UH, WHERE WE HAVE A AN EXTERNAL AUDITOR COME IN AND, AND TAKE A LOOK AT THAT? WELL, THAT'S, UM, OR IS THAT COMMON PRACTICE IN, IN, WITH, WITH POLICE AGENCIES? SOMETIMES THE EXTERNAL REVIEWS ARE DONE BECAUSE OF A CRITICAL INCIDENT, UM, THAT'S CAPTURED ATTENTION AND OR IS CONSIDERED PROBLEMATIC.
UM, AND SO THEN THEY'D WANT A HOLISTIC LOOK.
UM, OTHER TIMES SOME AGENCIES DO THIS AS A MATTER OF ROUTINE.
THE BEST AGENCIES THAT I'VE SEEN PUT OUT ANNUAL REPORTS ON THEIR OWN, AND THEY PROVIDE
[00:45:01]
THE CONTEXT AROUND 'EM, SO THEY'RE NOT JUST PUTTING OUT JUST NUMBERS, BUT RATHER EXPLAINING TO THE PUBLIC WHAT THESE NUMBERS MEAN AND PUTTING THEM IN CONTEXT, PARTICULARLY, UM, AS IT PERTAINS TO DIFFERENCES ACROSS RACIAL AND ETHNIC GROUPS.SO THE VERY BEST AGENCIES AND MOST PROGRESSIVE IN OUR COUNTRY DO THIS AS A MATTER OF ROUTINE.
OTHERS, UM, UH, COME TO THIS IN PART BECAUSE THEY'VE HAD A CRITICAL INCIDENT THAT'S BEEN CONSIDERED PROBLEMATIC.
UH, IN THE CASE FOR A PDI KNOW THAT YOU HAVE HAD EXTERNAL REVIEWS, UM, CONDUCTED BEFORE AT THE DIRECTION OF COUNSEL.
UM, IN THIS CASE, UH, YOU HAD A NEW CHIEF THAT CAME IN AND SAID, I WANNA KNOW AND BETTER UNDERSTAND AND GET THIS RIGHT.
AND I THINK THAT'S COMMENDABLE.
AND DO YOU KNOW WHEN THE LAST ONE WAS CONDUCTED THAT WAS INITIATED BY COUNSEL? UH, I BELIEVE THAT WAS PART OF THE KROLL REPORT.
THAT WOULD'VE COME OUT IN 2020.
UM, WE WERE IN, IN SPEAKING ABOUT THE, THE TASK FORCE, UH, UH, ABOUT HOW OFTEN WILL THE TASK FORCE BE MEETING AND WHAT DOES THAT REPORTING LOOK, LOOK LIKE, UH, WHEN IT CONCERNS COUNSEL AND, AND THIS AND THIS BODY HERE.
WELL, THOSE ARE GREAT QUESTIONS, AND I'M A ON A TASK MASTER.
UM, SO I'VE BEEN KEEPING THEM ON A PRETTY TIGHT SCHEDULE.
I KNOW THEY HAVE A LOT OF OTHER THINGS TO DO, BUT WE NEED TO MAKE THIS A PRIORITY.
UM, AND SO, UH, NOW OF COURSE, PART OF MY ISSUE IS THAT I LIVE IN CINCINNATI.
UM, AND SO THE FIRST FEW MEETINGS I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT I WAS HERE IN PERSON TO KIND OF KICK IT OFF.
BUT I HAVE TO SAY, I HAVE SUCH A GREAT COLLEAGUE HERE, UM, WHO'S BEEN WORKING, UH, ON THIS SPECIFICALLY WHEN I'M NOT HERE.
SO WE HAVE, WE HAVE MET AS A GROUP, THREE TIMES, FOUR, MAYBE, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, FOUR TIMES.
UH, WE'RE MEETING AGAIN TOMORROW.
UM, AND THE WORK WILL REALLY DICTATE HOW FAST WE GO.
AND ALSO, OF COURSE, THIS INITIAL PART, I DIDN'T THINK WE'D GET STUCK AT THE DATA PART, RIGHT? WE HAVE, AND BY STUCK I REALLY MEAN WE JUST HAVE WORK TO DO, BUT WE'RE CONTINUING AND MOVING FORWARD.
SO IT'S REALLY HARD TO PUT IT ON A TIMELINE.
BUT ONE OF THE THINGS WE WILL DO AS PART OF THE TASK FORCE IS IDENTIFY WHAT ARE THOSE TASKS? HOW LONG DO WE EXPECT? AND WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? UM, CHIEF YEAH.
SO WE'VE MET FOUR TIMES AS A LARGER GROUP.
WE'VE HAD SOME SUBGROUPS PUT TOGETHER TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE POLICIES, THE TRAINING, THE DIFFERENT THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND WE'VE MET AT DIFFERENT INTERVALS FOR THOSE SUBGROUPS.
AGAIN, WE HAVE ANOTHER MEETING TOMORROW MORNING AND WE'LL START GOING FROM THERE TO SEE HOW OFTEN WE NEED TO MEET, WHERE WE NEED TO DIVIDE IN SUBGROUPS AGAIN AND FIGURE OUT THE, UH, UH, INTERVAL THAT WE'LL NEED TO MEET DEPENDING ON THE SUBGROUP.
AND, AND ON THAT, DOCTOR, YOU, YOU, UM, YOU'D MENTIONED THAT YOU'LL, THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE TRAINING A PD STAFF TO BE ABLE TO CONDUCT THESE ANALYSES THEMSELVES.
WHAT, SO WHAT IS, WHAT IS YOUR EXPECTATION AS FAR AS HOW LONG YOU'LL BE WITH, WITH THE DEPARTMENT IN ORDER TO, TO IMPLEMENT AND OR ANALYZE AND IMPLEMENT SOME OF THESE CHANGES? WELL, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
UM, AND AGAIN, I THINK IT'S GONNA DEPEND IN PART ON WHAT WE SEE AS WE GO THROUGH.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, UM, WITH THE TRAINING, THE ACCOUNTABILITY AND THOSE THINGS, UM, AND THAT'S, I MEAN, REALLY UP TO COUNCIL'S DISCRETION AND OF COURSE THE DISCRETION OF, OF THE CHIEF.
UM, UM, SO I, I, I LEAVE THAT AS POTENTIALLY AN OPEN QUESTION.
OH, UH, THE CHIEF IS HERE AND WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK.
I THINK, UM, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS AT LEAST A YEAR, UM, WE WANNA GET THIS RIGHT.
WE WANT TO, UM, AND TO DO IT APPROPRIATELY.
I THINK IT'S GONNA LOOK AT LEAST A YEAR.
SO MY, MY MY HOPE IS THAT ROBIN, SHE IS VERY BUSY, BUT I HOPE THAT SHE, UM, YOU KNOW, OUR, OUR RELATIONSHIP THAT SHE'LL, YOU KNOW, HELP US OUT AND, AND MOVE FORWARD WITH US, UM, BECAUSE THIS IS REALLY GOOD WORK.
AND I THINK WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT BEST PRACTICES ACROSS THE COUNTRY, A PD WILL BE AT THE TOP OF THIS.
WELL, CHIEF, I WANNA COMMEND YOU FOR ONE, FOR INITIATING THIS, UH, WITH, WITH WITHOUT, UH, COUNCIL DIRECTION.
UH, BUT TWO, FOR ALL THE, ALL THE WORK AND, AND THE CHANGES THAT YOU ARE IN INSTITUTING AT THE, AT THE, UH, AT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, UM, CAN WE, OR CAN I ASK AS, AS A CHAIR AND, AND HOPEFULLY MY, MY ADVICE GENERAL AND GEORGE INDULGE ME ON THIS ALSO, THAT ONE, ONCE WE START GETTING SOME OF THESE, UH, REPORTS BACK OR START MAKING SOME OF THIS PROGRESS THAT THIS, THIS, SOME OF THIS GROUP, SOME OF THE TASK FORCE COME BACK TO REPORT TO US OH, ABSOLUTELY.
ON THE PROGRESS THAT'S BEING MADE.
UM, AND THOSE ARE ALL MY QUESTIONS AND I'LL, I'LL OPEN IT UP TO VICE CHAIR.
IT REALLY DOES SEEM LIKE VERY SOLID AND, AND ALSO VERY NEEDED WORK.
AND SO I APPRECIATE THAT VERY MUCH CHIEF DAVIS FOR INITIATING IT.
ECHOING WHAT OUR CHAIR HAS SAID, UM, I REALLY LIKE THE APPROACH YOU'RE TAKING TO ESTABLISHING DATA INTEGRITY AND A BASELINE AND TRAINING, AND ALSO A LITTLE BIT OF REORGANIZATION TO PROMOTE CONSISTENCY.
I'M JUST GIVING A, I'M NOT GONNA GO THROUGH ALL THE THINGS I NOTICED, BUT A FEW OF THE HIGH POINTS OF WHAT I THINK IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO ULTIMATE SUCCESS.
UM, AND, AND THEN I DO HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.
UM, HOW, WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL BE THE TIMING FOR WHEN THE 2023 REPORT IS ISSUED? I
[00:50:01]
MEAN, THERE ARE A LOT OF STEPS THAT GO INTO THAT, THAT ARE IMPORTANT.UM, BUT THAT'S ALSO SOMETHING I THINK PEOPLE ARE WAITING FOR.
UM, WE, WE HAVE A DRAFT MM-HMM
UM, MY, MY CONCERN WITH RELEASING IS SIMPLY THAT I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT DATA, THE DATA LAG, SO WHEN THE DATA GETS PULLED, WHEN IT GETS PULLED AGAIN, AM I GONNA SEE DIFFERENT NUMBERS? MM-HMM
RIGHT? AND, AND WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT HUGE NUMBER, RIGHT? I MEAN, IT'S NOT GONNA CHANGE THE SUBSTANTIVE FINDINGS, BUT NONETHELESS, WHEN YOU PUT SOMETHING OUT, UM, YOU KNOW, I, I HAVE THIS
AND I SAID, WELL, THIS IS OFF BY 20 CASES.
AND HE SAID, BUT THERE'S, YOU KNOW, 2000 K, IT DOESN'T MATTER.
I SAID, YOU GO BACK TO THE PARKING LOT AND YOU PICK UP THOSE 20 CASES THAT YOU JUST THOUGHT WERE NOT IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO BE IN THIS DATA SET.
RIGHT? UM, AND THAT'S THE POINT, RIGHT? SO I JUST NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S CONSISTENCY, BECAUSE I DO NOT WANNA COME BEFORE COUNSEL AGAIN AND SAY, HEY, THAT 2023 REPORT THAT WE PUT OUT, WE NEED TO MAKE SOME CORRECTIONS ON IT.
AND I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH THAT, AND I REALLY APPRECIATE, UM, THE STEPS YOU'RE TAKING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GET THERE.
I'M NOT TRYING TO RUSH IT RIGHT AT ALL.
IT, IT'S NOT LIKE WE'RE STARTING FROM SCRATCH.
WE'RE NOT, WE'RE JUST TRYING TO MAKE SURE THOSE DATA SYSTEMS ARE ACCURATE.
AM I GATHERING CORRECTLY THEN THAT THE CORRECT AND REISSUE OF 2019 THROUGH 2022 WILL PROBABLY COME AT THE SAME TIME AS 2023, ALL OF THOSE AS A SET? YES.
AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE TAKING A LOOK AT RIGHT NOW IS, DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO JUST CORRECT.
UM, WE BELIEVE ACTUALLY THERE'S, WE BELIEVE THERE'S MINOR ERRORS IN 2022.
UM, THE ONES PRIOR, I DON'T THINK THAT THERE ARE ERRORS THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, DRAMATIC ENOUGH THAT WE WOULD NEED TO, TO REISSUE.
UM, BUT THOSE REPORTS ALSO DON'T GIVE YOU A LOT OF INFORMATION.
SO WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS MUCH MORE ROBUST REPORTING, BUT ALSO PUTTING IT IN A CONTEXT THAT'S UNDERSTANDABLE MM-HMM
BY THE PUBLIC, RIGHT? AS A STATISTICIAN, I CAN TELL YOU ALL KINDS OF THINGS.
AND AGAIN, PEOPLE'S EYES GLAZE OVER, RIGHT? THEY WANNA KNOW AND UNDERSTAND WHAT THIS REALLY MEANS FOR THEM.
AND SO, AGAIN, WITH CHIEF DAVIS ALWAYS THINKING ABOUT WHAT IS THE IMPACT ON THE COMMUNITY? WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? SO THAT'S PART OF THE TEMPLATE AND HOW WE WILL HAVE THE ACTUAL STATISTICAL ANALYSIS THAT ARE AVAILABLE UPON REVIEW, BUT WHAT THE PUBLIC FACING AND WHAT THAT PIECE LOOKS LIKE SO THAT IT'S CONSUMABLE.
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE WORKING ON AS WELL.
UM, I AM ALSO WONDERING, YOU TALKED A A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, FOR EXAMPLE, LOOKING AT, UM, OUR BLACK SUBJECTS VERSUS WHITE SUBJECTS AND, AND THAT SORT OF THING.
UM, THE WAY THAT YOU'RE WORKING ON THE DATA, WILL THERE BE POTENTIAL FOR OTHER TYPES OF DE DISAGGREGATION EASILY? I MEAN, I KNOW FOR EXAMPLE, YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT GEORGE SECTORS HAVING A LARGE PROPORTION OF THE USES OF FORCE INCIDENTS.
I'M ALSO THINKING TIME OF DAY MM-HMM
OR, YOU KNOW, OTHER FACTORS LIKE THAT.
SO ALL OF THOSE FACTORS, UM, THE CONTEXT REALLY MATTERS.
SO WHEN WE'RE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHY, UM, THE PATTERNS LOOK THE WAY THAT THEY DO, WE NEED TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT, UH, THE LOCATION, THE TIME OF THE DAY, THE RESISTANCE THAT'S SHOWN TO AN OFFICER, RIGHT? IS THE STRONGEST PREDICTOR OF WHETHER OR NOT FORCE IS USED AT WHAT LEVEL.
SO WE NEED TO TAKE ALL OF THOSE THINGS INTO ACCOUNT.
AND WHEN YOU JUST REPORT THE NUMBERS OF FORCE AND YOU DON'T PROVIDE ANY OF THAT CONTEXT WITH IT, UM, YOU KNOW, YOU LEAVE SO MANY OPEN QUESTION MARKS.
SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE DO, AND NOT TO BORE YOU WITH STATISTICS, BUT WE TAKE A LOOK AT MULTIVARIATE, UH, STATISTICAL ANALYSIS, SO REGRESSION MODELING AND THINGS LIKE THAT TO BETTER UNDERSTAND AND ISOLATE THOSE FACTORS THAT ACTUALLY HAVE IMPACT VERSUS ONES THAT DON'T.
UM, AND SO ALL OF THAT IS AGAIN, THINGS THAT I'M TRAINING YOUR ANALYSTS RIGHT NOW TO BE ABLE TO DO ON THEIR OWN SO THAT THEY'LL BE ABLE TO TAKE A LOOK AND PRESENT THIS, NOT NOT JUST NUMBERS, BUT IN CONTEXT OF HOW THESE OFFICERS ARE ACTUALLY RESPONDING TO RESISTANCE.
UM, ANOTHER QUESTION I HAVE, AND I IMAGINE IT'S ALREADY PART OF WHAT YOU'RE DOING, BUT UM, YOU KNOW, YOU MENTIONED CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT AS WE GO ACROSS TIME, OF COURSE, WE'RE GETTING THESE DATA SETS THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO RELY ON.
UM, ALSO, UM, LOOKING AT HOW WE ARE DE DEESCALATING.
COULD YOU SPEAK A LITTLE BIT, UH, ABOUT HOW ONCE WE GET THESE REPORTS WE'LL BE ABLE TO, LIKE WHAT KIND OF MEASURES WE'LL BE ABLE TO SEE AROUND GOALS FOR DEESCALATION AND THAT SORT OF THING? ABSOLUTELY.
WELL, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'D REALLY LOVE TO DO IS BETTER, UM, MAKE SURE THAT THAT TRAINING THAT IS PUT IN PLACE, THAT WE'RE EVALUATING THAT TRAINING OVER TIME.
UM, AND THAT, THAT THE TRAINING IS SERVING THE PURPOSE THAT, THAT WE HOPE.
RIGHT? UM, AND SO THERE'S WAYS TO DO THAT WITH
[00:55:01]
THE TRAINING ACADEMY AND STAFF RIGHT NOW.SO THEY CAN ALSO BE LOOKING AND UNDERSTANDING THEIR PROGRESS OVER TIME.
SO IT'S NOT GONNA BE JUST A, YOU KNOW, PART OF THIS SINGLE, THIS USE OF FORCE REPORT, RIGHT? THAT REPORT OUT THERE'S GONNA BE, I, I ENVISION AND I, AND I KNOW THAT THIS CHIEF SHARES THIS VISION HERE, UM, OF A LEARNING ORGANIZATION WHERE YOU'RE LOOKING AT LOTS OF DIFFERENT THINGS AND USING DATA TO REALLY INFORM THE DECISION MAKING OVER TIME, RIGHT? SO THAT'S THE TYPE OF THING THAT WE'RE HOPING TO PUT IN PLACE IN TERMS OF THE DEESCALATION PIECE ITSELF.
UM, THERE'S SO MUCH THAT'S BEEN HAPPENING AT THE TRAINING ACADEMY ACTUALLY UNDER, UM, CHIEF, IF YOU'D LIKE TO TALK JUST A LITTLE BIT, I KNOW THAT WAS YOUR FORMER ASSIGNMENT, BUT A LOT OF DIFFERENT CHANGES THAT HAVE BEEN HAPPENING AT THE TRAINING ACADEMY RELATED DIRECTLY, UM, TO USE OF FORCE.
SO THE MAIN THING THAT WE'RE DOING IN USE OF FORCE IS WE'RE LOOKING AT ICA AND HOW DO WE INTEGRATE THAT.
ENGLE TALKED ABOUT ICAT EARLIER.
THAT'S YOUR PRIMARY DEESCALATION TRAINING.
AND SO WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING IS ICAT COMES OUT WITH A NEW VERSION ALL THE TIME.
ONE, TWO, WE'RE ON FOUR AND I THINK WE'RE ABOUT TO RELEASE FIVE.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE KEEP PUTTING PEOPLE THROUGH THAT SAME 16 HOUR BLOCK OF TRAINING.
IT WAS A LITTLE SHORTER IN THE FIRST FEW VERSIONS, BUT WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS BRING THAT TRAINING UP TO SPEED AND GIVE PEOPLE A LITTLE SOMETHING EXTRA THAT'S SPECIFIC TO AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT.
AND SO WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH LOUISVILLE, UH, POLICE DEPARTMENT BECAUSE THEY ARE THE STANDARD FOR THE DOJ.
THEY'VE GOT A SERGEANT UP THERE THAT'S BEEN DOING THIS FOR A LONG TIME.
HE TRAVELS, HE TRAINS FOR THE DOJ.
AND THEY'VE HAD USE OF FORCE DROP SIGNIFICANTLY AFTER IMPLEMENTING ICA.
AND THEY DIDN'T DO IT NECESSARILY THE STANDARD WAY, UM, THAT PERF HAD IT AT FIRST.
THEY KIND OF, UH, DEVELOPED IT A LITTLE BIT, PUT IT IN FOUR AND FIVE HOUR BLOCKS THAT WERE DIGESTIBLE, EASY FOR OFFICERS TO UNDERSTAND.
AND SO THEN THEY WENT BACK AND THEY SAID, HEY, PERF, ARE YOU OKAY WITH THIS? ARE YOU, AND SO PERF WAS LIKE, WELL, THIS IS EXCELLENT.
AND THEY STARTED WORKING TOGETHER AND THE SERGEANT STARTED TRAINING FOR PERF.
AND SO, UH, I MAY HAVE MISSED SOME OF THE DETAILS THERE OR CONFUSED SOME OF 'EM, BUT THE MAIN POINT IS WE'RE WORKING WITH THEM TO, UH, KIND OF REVAMP OUR ICAT TRAINING AND MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE PUTTING OUT THE BEST TRAINING POSSIBLE TO THE OFFICERS SO THAT IT MEANS SOMETHING TO 'EM SO THAT THEY CAN GET THE BENEFITS FROM THE TRAINING BECAUSE IT IS SUPER BENEFICIAL TRAINING.
AND I'LL JUST NOTE ABOUT THAT TRAINING SPECIFICALLY.
SO PERF THAT HE IS REFERRING TO IS THE POLICE EXECUTIVE RESEARCH FORM.
THEY'RE THE ONES THAT ORIGINALLY DESIGNED THE ICAT TRAINING, INTEGRATING COMMUNICATIONS ASSESSMENTS AND TACTICS.
UM, AND THAT WORK IN LOUISVILLE METRO, THE ANALYSIS AND THE RESEARCH WAS DONE BY MY RESEARCH TEAM WHEN I WAS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF CINCINNATI.
AND SO IT IS THE FIRST AND STANDS ALONE, UM, AS THE ONLY EVALUATION THAT HAS DEMONSTRATED SIGNIFICANT REDUCTIONS IN OFFICER USE OF FORCE AND OFFICER INJURY AND CITIZEN INJURY.
SO, UM, 26% REDUCTION IN CITIZEN INJURY.
UM, WE USED A RANDOMIZED CONTROL TRIAL DESIGN, UH, A MODIFICATION OF THAT.
SO ONE OF THE STRONGEST RESEARCH DESIGNS, UM, AND WERE ABLE TO DEMONSTRATE PRIOR TO THAT OFFICERS REALLY THOUGHT, YOU'RE GONNA TEACH ME TO HESITATE AND YOU'RE GONNA GET ME KILLED OUT THERE.
AND THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE TO SAY OTHERWISE.
SO NOW WE HAVE VERY CLEAR AND CONVINCING EVIDENCE THAT IN FACT, NOT ONLY ARE WE NOT GOING TO TEACH YOU TO HESITATE AND GET YOU KILLED OUT THERE, BUT WE'RE ACTUALLY GONNA MAKE YOU SAFER AND WE'RE GONNA MAKE THE PUBLIC SAFER AND HOW WE CAN CONTINUALLY CHANGE THAT TRAINING AND UPDATE IT.
UM, LOUISVILLE METRO IS WORKING REALLY HARD NOW WITH THE FIRST LINE SUPERVISORS.
WHAT DO THEY NEED TO DO TO REINFORCE THAT TRAINING OUTSIDE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THE TRAINING HAPPENS AND THEN WE HAVE, AND WE'VE ACTUALLY MEASURED IT WITH THEM TRAINING DECAY, RIGHT? SO HOW OFTEN DO WE HAVE TO TRAIN AND WHAT CAN WE DO IN BETWEEN TRAINING INTERVIEWS TO CONTINUE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE AN AGENCY THAT VALUES AND EXPECTS THAT THAT TYPE OF INTERACTION THAT IS DEESCALATED.
THAT'S WHAT THIS TRAINING ACADEMY IS WORKING ON.
I'M SO PROUD TO BE A PART OF IT.
I GUESS I'M NOT REALLY SURE HOW IT WOULD FIT INTO HOW THE DATA IS ALREADY, BUT, UM, SO SOME OF THE CREATIVE THINGS THAT I THINK AUSTIN HAS ROLLED OUT, UM, NOT ALL THE WAY, UM, BUT PILOTED AND BEGINNING TO ROLL OUT THINGS LIKE MENTAL HEALTH RESPONSE MM-HMM
UH, TO 9 1 1 CALLS AND THAT SORT OF THING.
UM, I HOPE THAT THERE'S A WAY AS WE MOVE THROUGH THE DATA TO ALSO SEE HOW MENTAL HEALTH RESPONSE, HOMELESS RESPONSE, THAT SORT OF THING IS IMPACTING, UM, HOW MUCH USE OF FORCE IS HAPPENING.
AND I THINK THAT JUST FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN AND HEARD ANECDOTALLY THAT IT MIGHT BE TRICKIER TO GET TO THAT THEN, THEN I'M JUST GONNA SHARE, UM,
SO FOR EXAMPLE, IF A LOWER LEVEL INCIDENT IS OCCURRING AND GETTING 9 1 1 CALLS AND,
[01:00:01]
AND THEN EVENTUALLY IT ESCALATES TO VIOLENCE AND THEN OFFICERS ARRIVE, I MEAN, THAT'S A MORE TENSE SITUATION.AND SO IT COULD CERTAINLY, I THINK, BE MORE LIKELY TO LEAD TO USE OF FORCE AS WE'RE DOING THINGS VERSUS IF WE'RE IN AN AREA OR LOCATION WHERE, YOU KNOW, THE MENTAL HEALTH RESPONSE IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING.
YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW HOW WE KNOW WHERE WE'VE GOT THAT WORKING EFFECTIVELY, BUT I'M JUST PUTTING IT OUT THERE AS FOOD FOR THOUGHT
WELL, AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT OUR, OUR RESEARCH TEAM HAS DONE, UM, WE, UH, I LED THE, THE WORK, A $5 MILLION INVESTMENT FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE TO UPDATE CRISIS, UH, INTERVENTION TRAINING, UM, AND MAKE THAT AVAILABLE, UM, FREE, UH, TO AGENCIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
IT'S CALLED CRIT CRISIS RESPONSE INTERVENTION TRAINING, BECAUSE THERE ARE DIFFERENT RESPONSE MODELS NOW THAN WHEN CIT WAS ORIGINALLY DEVELOPED 20 PLUS YEARS AGO.
SO THINKING ABOUT THE RESPONSE MODEL, RIGHT? AND THE MECHANISMS, UH, OF WHAT'S IN PLACE, COS RESPONDER MODELS AND OTHER TYPES, WHAT'S THE MOST EFFECTIVE, WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE AND WHAT'S MOST APPROPRIATE, UM, FOR YOUR AUSTIN COMMUNITY? THERE'S LOTS OF DIFFERENT WAYS THAT YOU CAN RESPOND TO PERSONS IN CRISIS, UM, BUT WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE IDENTIFY THE WAYS THAT ARE THE SAFEST, UM, RIGHT.
AND SO I KNOW THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THE CHIEF ALSO, UM, WILL HAVE US, UH, CONSIDER AND LOOK INTO AS THE CHANGES WE'RE MAKING IN THE OVERALL USE OF FORCE POLICIES AND TRAINING.
WELL, THANK YOU AGAIN, I APPRECIATE BOTH THE PRESENTATION AND ALSO THAT, UM, YOU AND A PD ARE WORKING TOGETHER IN THIS A COLLABORATIVE WAY OVER, OVER TIME.
COUNCIL MEMBER DECHEN, THANKS SO MUCH FOR, UH, A VERY THOROUGH AND, UH, DATA-DRIVEN APPROACH AND PRESENTATION.
I HAD A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS I WAS HOPING YOU COULD HELP ME GET SOME CLARITY ON.
UH, THE FIRST, MY BIGGEST STRUGGLE WITH THIS IS TRYING TO UNDERSTAND, I KNOW YOU LOOKED AT LOT, SO YOU, YOU LOOKED AT, YOU'VE BEEN LOOKING AT A LOT OF PEER AGENCIES.
YOU MENTIONED LOUISVILLE JUST A MOMENT AGO.
I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW COME THERE SEEMS TO BE, UM, NO EXISTING MODEL OR STANDARDIZATION IN THE SPACE THAT A TEXTBOOK SOMEBODY ELSE HAS WRITTEN GOING THROUGH THE EXACT SAME CHALLENGES THAT WE ARE, THAT WE CAN'T JUST BORROW THAT, OPEN IT UP, CRACK IT OPEN, AND UH, BASICALLY HAVE A GREAT SHORTCUT FOR IMPLEMENTING THIS SOLUTION.
IT SEEMS LIKE WE'VE DONE A, A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF WORK BUILDING OUT WHAT SEEMS TO BE A PROPRIETARY SYSTEM FOR AUSTIN.
IS THERE NO OFF THE SHELF VERSION FROM LOUISVILLE OR ANYWHERE ELSE THAT WE COULD BE ADAPTING? AND WHEN YOU SAY OFF THE SHELF VERSION, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE DATA COLLECTION PIECE OR ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT I MEAN, OUR ENTIRE UNDERSTANDING AND APPROACH TO USE OF FORCE OKAY.
WHETHER IT'S DATA METRICS OR ANYTHING ELSE.
WELL, PART OF OUR LARGEST ISSUE, AND THIS IS TRUE IN POLICING AND EVERY ASPECT OF POLICING, 18,000 LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES IN THE UNITED STATES WITH VERY INCONSISTENT STANDARDS ACROSS, UM, MOST OF THE STANDARDS EVEN AT THE STATE LEVEL.
SO THE STATES DON'T MATCH, OF COURSE.
AND THEN EVEN AT THE STATE LEVEL, UM, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MINIMUMS, UM, OFTENTIMES, UM, STANDARDS, UM, THAT ARE REQUIRED.
BUT THEN YOU HAVE OTHER AGENCIES THAT WANNA WORK TOWARDS A, A, YOU KNOW, HIGHER THAN, THAN THE MINIMUM STANDARDS.
UM, SO YOU SEE JUST THIS REFLECTION OF ALL DIFFERENT TYPES.
UH, IT'S KIND OF, IT'S, IT'S REALLY, UM, YEAH, CHIEF I, I THINK COUNCIL MEMBER, FOR ME, IT'S LOOKING AT WHAT IS OUR SPECIFIC PROBLEM, RIGHT? SO UNTIL WE GET AN AUDIT AND WE'RE ACTUALLY IN THERE LOOKING AT EXACTLY WHAT WE HAVE, THAT'S WHERE THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE BECAUSE EVERY AGENCY TO ROBIN'S POINT IS VERY DIFFERENT.
AND SO ONCE WE REALIZE THE PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE AND WE'RE LOOKING AT DATA, THEN HOW DO WE MOVE FORWARD? AND CERTAINLY WHERE THERE SUCCESSES THOSE MODELS, WE CAN KIND OF IMPLEMENT AND, AND LOOK AT THOSE MODELS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
WHAT ARE BEST PRACTICES? AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE DO.
WE LOOK AT BEST PRACTICES AND YOU TAKE A LITTLE BIT FROM THAT, FROM, FROM EACH SPACE.
BUT TO BEGIN IT IS REALLY, I THINK EACH AGENCY, IT'S WHAT IS THE PROBLEM.
AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE YOU, WHERE IT DIFFERS.
WELL, IT SOUNDS LIKE ONE OF OUR CHALLENGES IS UNDERSTANDING, UM, THESE LEVEL FOUR USE OF FORCE INCIDENTS.
AND MAYBE YOU CAN JUST HELP ME, UH, I REALIZE I'M NOT THE ONLY NEW PERSON, UH, HERE, BUT MAYBE YOU CAN HELP PROVIDE SOME CONTEXT FOR HOW IT GOT TO A PLACE WHERE WE ARE MEASURING LEVEL FOUR INSTANCE, IT SOUNDS LIKE, IN AN ATYPICAL WAY RELATIVE TO MOST PEER CITIES.
UM, ACTUALLY I MIGHT HAVE, UM, CHIEF, IF YOU WANT TO TAKE THAT ONE ON, YOU HAVE THE HISTORICAL CONTEXT.
UM, I CAN JUST TELL YOU THAT, UM, SOME AGENCIES RECEIVED, UH, DIFFERENT LEVELS OF GUIDANCE, UM, AT THE TIME, UH, AND CONSTANTLY EVOLVING STANDARDS.
[01:05:01]
RECOMMENDATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE IN THE PAST ARE NOT DATA-DRIVEN.SO UNFORTUNATELY, AND THIS IS TRUE ACROSS ALL POLICE REFORMS, WHEN WE DEMAND REFORM, RIGHT, WHEN CITIZENS COME TO THE STREET AND THEY DEMAND REFORM, THE REFORM THAT WE PUT IN PLACE IS OFTEN A KNEE-JERK REACTION.
IT'S OFTEN, UM, IT WELL INTENDED BUT NOT WELL RESEARCHED.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, UM, WE KNOW THAT MOST, UM, IMPLICIT BIAS TRAINING ACTUALLY DOES NOT HAVE THE IMPACT THAT WE WOULD HOPE THAT IT WOULD.
UM, BUT IT'S SEEN AS ONE OF THOSE, LIKE, WE NEED TO HAVE ALL OF OUR OFFICERS TRAINED THIS WAY.
UM, AND IT'S ONLY YEARS LATER THAT WE REALIZED THAT THAT TRAINING DIDN'T HAVE THE IMPACT THAT WE EXPECTED OR WANTED.
THAT'S THE SAME AS TRUE WITH, UM, SOME RECOMMENDATIONS I THINK THAT CAME TO THE AGENCY ABOUT CAPTURING ALL OF THESE ALL MANNER OF ANY TYPE OF THE MOST MINOR, UH, INTERACTIONS BETWEEN OFFICERS AND CITIZENS THAT WE CAPTURE THAT AS FORCE, BUT THAT HAS REALLY UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES, UM, AS A RESULT.
BUT I'LL LET THE CHIEF SPEAK TO THE HISTORY OF IT.
SO IT'S BEEN NEARLY A DECADE SINCE WE WENT TO THE LEVEL FOUR.
AND SO WHAT IT WAS IS AN ATTEMPT TO MAKE SURE NOTHING SLIPPED THROUGH THE CRACKS.
YOU'D LOOK AT SOMETHING AND YOU'D GO, OOH, THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN REPORTED AS USE OF FORCE.
AND SO WE WROTE A POLICY THAT CAPTURED EVERYTHING AND WAS A NET FOR, FOR ANYTHING THAT POSSIBLY COULD BE.
AND SO, UH, WE DIDN'T NECESSARILY PROVIDE THE BEST GUIDANCE ON, HEY, THIS IS WHAT THIS LOOKS LIKE IN REAL WORLD TIMING.
WE JUST WROTE THE POLICY TO MAKE SURE NOTHING COULD SLIP THROUGH THE CRACKS.
AND SO THAT'S HOW WE ENDED UP WITH THIS LEVEL FOUR.
NOW IT WAS A LEVEL FOUR VERSUS A LEVEL THREE, UH, BECAUSE AT THE TIME WE WERE, UH, REVIEWING USE OF FORCE THROUGH THE SUPERVISORS IN THE CHAIN OF COMMAND.
UM, AND SO IN 2021, WE CREATED THE USE OF FORCE UNIT, AND THAT WAS TO STANDARDIZE REVIEWS, RIGHT? SO A USE OF FORCE OVER HERE IN THIS PART OF THE CITY DIDN'T GET REVIEWED DIFFERENTLY THAN THE USE OF FORCE IN THIS PART OF THE CITY.
AND SO WHEN WE DID THAT, WE STARTED REVIEWING LEVEL THREES AND FOURS AT THE EXACT SAME, UH, UM, PROCESS.
AND SO THERE WAS NO LONGER A NEED FOR LEVEL FOUR, BUT WE KEPT IT THERE.
UM, AND NOW WE'RE GOING BACK AND TRYING TO CLEAR UP THAT DEFINITION AND GIVE THESE SUPERVISORS THE UNDERSTANDING OF, HEY, LIKE THIS IS WHAT IT ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE.
THIS IS WHAT IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE.
SO I APPRECIATE YOU GUYS SPEAKING TO THAT BECAUSE IT DOES RELATE TO I THINK A VERY, I'M GONNA SAY PRACTICAL APPOINTED QUESTION I WANNA FOLLOW UP WITH.
IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'VE GOT, UH, AT LEAST ONE PERSON THAT'S A MEMBER OF YOUR TASK FORCE.
I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, DO YOU ANTICIPATE ANY CHALLENGES THEN WITH PEOPLE THAT MIGHT BE INVESTED IN THIS ALMOST 10-YEAR-OLD WAY OF REPORTING THAT, UH, THERE MAY BE SOME RESISTANCE OR SOME CONFUSION OR SOME UNEXPECTED CHALLENGES AS WE SAY, AS WE MAY REEVALUATE LEVEL FOURS AND MAYBE DO IT WITH 'EM ENTIRELY OR ROLL 'EM INTO LEVEL THREES OR FIND SOME OTHER WAY OF MEASURING THAT, UM, MAYBE IS COUNTER TO THE, UH, HISTORICAL OR INTUITIVE NATURE PEOPLE THAT WERE BOUGHT INTO THE CURRENT WAY OF REPORTING.
I ANTICIPATE THAT THERE WILL BE DIFFERENCES OF OPINION, AND I ACTUALLY SPECIFICALLY ASKED FOR A TASK FORCE THAT WOULD GIVE ME DIFFERENCES OF OPINION, RIGHT? YOU BUILD A BIG TABLE, YOU PUT EVERYONE AROUND IT, AND THEN YOU UNDERSTAND THE ISSUES FROM LOTS OF DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES.
UM, AT THE, AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE HAS THE SAME PURPOSE AND THAT PURPOSE IS TO MAKE POLICE CITIZEN ENCOUNTER SAFER FOR OFFICERS AND FOR THE PUBLIC.
UH, AND SO ALONG THE WAY, ARE WE GONNA HAVE POTENTIAL EITHER RESISTANCE OR MISUNDERSTANDING OR, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THE THINGS THAT YOU MENTIONED? I BELIEVE THAT'S TRUE.
HOWEVER, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE ALSO VERY INVESTED AND COMMITTED TO IS MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE CLEAR, THAT WE'RE TRANSPARENT, THAT WE ARE GIVING THE PROPER TRAINING AND EDUCATING OUR PUBLIC WHILE WE'RE TRAINING OUR OFFICERS, RIGHT? WE NEED TO DO BOTH.
UM, AND SO THAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHY THE NEED FOR THE CHANGE AND WHAT IT MEANS FOR THEM.
UM, BUT, BUT CHIEF, I MEAN, YOU'VE BEEN, YOU'VE, YOU'VE ASKED US TO, TO CHALLENGE PEOPLE, RIGHT? UM, AND TO CHALLENGE THAT CONVENTIONAL WISDOM AND THINKING, UM, AND BUT BRING 'EM TO THE TABLE AND AND UNDERSTAND THEIR CONCERNS.
UM, YEAH, I MEAN, THERE'S GOTTA BE SOME COLLABORATION AND TO YOUR POINT, WE WILL ABSOLUTELY HAVE THOSE DIFFERING OPINIONS.
UM, I THINK WHEN, WHEN WE GET TO THE END OF THIS TASK FORCE AND WE HAVE RECOMMENDATIONS AND WE BRING IT BEFORE COUNCIL, UM, THERE'S GONNA BE QUESTIONS THERE.
[01:10:01]
HAVE TO TALK ABOUT HOW ARE WE TRAINING, HOW ARE WE MOVING, HOW ARE WE GETTING THIS INTO THE COMMUNITY? THERE ARE MANY, MANY MOVING PARTS TO THIS, BUT WE HAVE TO, I THINK IT'S WORTH IT.CERTAINLY APPRECIATE, UM, THE INTENT FOR, UH, BEING AS INCLUSIVE AS POSSIBLE.
UH, RELATED TO THAT, CAN YOU JUST GIMME KIND OF A BROAD SENSE OF LOOKING THROUGH THE PEER CITIES AND YOU MENTIONED 18,000 DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, LAW ENFORCEMENT, DIFFERENT LEVELS, HOW MANY, GENERALLY SPEAKING, HOW COMMON IT IS TO VIEW, UH, USE OF FORCE WITH LEVEL FOUR IN THE WAY THAT AUSTIN DOES? MY QUESTION IS REALLY HOW MUCH OF AN OUTLIER OR, OR A NORM IS THIS? UM, SO WHEN I SAID I'VE WORKED WITH DOZENS OF AGENCIES, IT'S PROBABLY AN UNDERSTATEMENT.
I'VE, I'VE LED OVER A HUNDRED DIFFERENT RESEARCH PROJECTS.
SO I'VE WORKED IN LOTS OF AGENCIES.
I HAVE NEVER SEEN AN AGENCY THAT INTERPRETS USE OF FORCE THE WAY THAT AUSTIN PD DOES.
NOW, THAT'S NOT TO SAY THAT THEIR POLICY DOESN'T LOOK SIMILAR TO OTHERS, BUT THE ACTUAL INTERPRETATION AND HOW IT'S BEING REPORTED BY OFFICERS, UM, I HAVE NOT SEEN THAT BEFORE.
NOW, CERTAIN AGENTS, THERE ARE SOME AGENCIES THAT HAVE HAD REALLY SORT OF VERY, VERY PROBLEMATIC.
I DO NOT THINK THAT AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT'S A VERY, VERY PROBLEMATIC AGENCY, RIGHT? BUT THERE ARE AGENCIES THAT ARE OUT THERE THAT NEED THAT TYPE OF ABSOLUTE, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, I, I'M, I'M HESITATING WITH MY WORDS HERE BECAUSE IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT THAT ADDITIONAL INFORMATION.
IT'S ONLY VALUABLE IF IT'S GOING TO BE USED TO CHANGE CULTURE.
AND AT THE SUPERVISORY LEVEL, RIGHT NOW, THOSE LEVEL FOURS AREN'T GOING TO THOSE FIRST LINE SUPERVISORS ANYWAY.
YOU'RE NOT CHANGING CULTURE, YOU'RE NOT CHANGING ANYTHING HERE.
THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE PUT IN WHAT IS OUR PLAN FOR HOLISTIC CULTURAL CHANGE.
AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT WE NEED A CHANGE, RIGHT? BUT IT'S JUST, IT'S ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT EVERYONE IN THE AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT IS ON BOARD WITH THIS IS HOW WE DEESCALATE SITUATIONS.
SO, UM, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, WHICH THE ORIGINAL QUESTION WAS HOW, HOW FREQUENT IS THIS? IT'S VERY RARE.
THANKS FOR HELPING ME UNDERSTAND THAT, AND I'M GLAD YOU KIND OF REDIRECT US BACK TO THE PLAN, THE RECOMMENDATIONS YOU LAID OUT 11 OF THEM.
UH, CAN YOU GIVE ME A SENSE OF WHICH ONES ARE THE LOW HANGING FRUIT? WHICH ONE, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY LIKE STRATEGIC PLAN, AND SOME OF THEM COULD BE VERY LONG TERM, UH, DUNNO HOW LONG THE TASK FORCE PLANS TO MEET AND PROVIDE RECOMMENDATIONS.
BUT WHAT ARE SORT OF THE, THE IMMEDIATE STEPS THAT YOU SENSE OF THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE COULD START TO IMPLEMENT SOONER RATHER THAN LATER THAT WOULD IMPLEMENT, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD BENEFIT THE POLICE FORCE AS WELL AS THE COMMUNITY? WELL, ONE OF THOSE, UM, AND I, I DESCRIBED AS LOW HANGING FRUIT, BUT I PROBABLY SHOULDN'T HAVE BECAUSE IT WAS ACTUALLY A VERY BOLD MOVE, UM, BY, UH, BY THE CHIEF AND HER STAFF WAS TO CHANGE THE ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE MM-HMM
SO IT'S LOW HANGING FRUIT IN THAT IT'S BEEN DONE.
UM, BUT IT, IT, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, IT WAS A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE.
UM, CHIEF YOU WANNA SPEAK TO THAT? YEAH, NO, I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S ABSOLUTELY TRUE.
IMAGINE, YOU KNOW, I COME HERE AND IT'S THREE ASSISTANT CHIEFS IN CHARGE OF ALL THE SECTORS, AND YOU'RE HAVING THREE DIFFERENT MESSAGES, YOU'RE HAVING THREE DIFFERENT PRIORITIES.
AND SO TO PUT THAT UNDER ONE ASSISTANT CHIEF AND, AND THAT'S ASSISTANT CHIEF, UM, MIKE CHANCELLOR HERE, THAT GIVES US CONSISTENCY.
THAT GIVES US, HE'S MEETING WITH THESE SECTOR COMMANDERS ONCE A WEEK.
THEY'RE IN A ROOM AND, AND IT'S GETTING TALKED ABOUT WHAT OUR PRIORITIES ARE, WHAT ARE PEOPLE SEEING.
AND SO THAT CONSISTENCY'S THERE AND THAT'S A START.
AND YOU KNOW, WE'RE, I THINK EVEN JUST, UM, LOOKING AT AND CLEANING UP THE DATA, THAT'S GONNA TAKE US A LITTLE BIT, BUT WE CAN DO IT PIECEMEAL, RIGHT? WE CAN DO IT ALONG THE WAY.
UM, LOOKING AT LEVEL FOUR, UH, USES OF FORCE, WE'RE GONNA HAVE RECOMMENDATIONS VERY SOON, UM, TO THE CHIEF TO LOOK AT, AND THEN IT'LL BE, THEN THE PROCESS IS, OKAY, WELL HOW DO WE TRAIN IT? UM, YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE CHANGE THAT POLICY? WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? SO, SO WE'RE ON OUR WAY.
UM, I FEEL VERY COMFORTABLE WITH THE PROGRESS THAT'S BEEN MADE TO DATE.
I MEAN, WE JUST, EVEN JUST SETTING UP THE, ONE OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS WAS SET UP THIS TASK FORCE AND THE CHIEF SAID, DONE IMMEDIATELY.
TELL ME, TELL ME WHO YOU WANT.
UM, AND THAT'S WHEN I SAID, WELL, WE NEED, YOU KNOW, I WANT IT AT EVERY LEVEL.
AND THAT WAS, THAT WAS IMMEDIATE.
UM, SO I'M, I'M ENCOURAGED BY THE, BY THE PACE OF THE CHANGE.
AND I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THOSE IN THE NEXT NINE OR 12 MONTHS.
UH, LAST QUESTION, AND I, AGAIN, I'M NOT SURE THE DELICATE WAY TO, TO ASK THIS, BUT YOU KNOW, YOU MENTIONED, UH, WHAT IT SOUNDED LIKE A RELATIONSHIP OR VERY LEAST CORRELATION BETWEEN, UM, REFORMS HERE AND CITIZEN INJURY AND OFFICER
[01:15:01]
INJURIES.UH, IS THAT CORRECT? UM, I, REFORMS ACROSS THE COUNTRY HAVE NOT BEEN BASED ON EVIDENCE, RIGHT? SO THINGS THAT ARE PUT IN PLACE OFTEN HAVE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.
UM, AND I'M NOT SPEAKING DIRECTLY ABOUT NECESSARILY AUSTIN PD, BUT RATHER THAT IS A, THAT'S A CONSISTENT THEME.
UM, I'VE, I'VE WRITTEN ABOUT THIS.
MANY SCHOLARS HAVE, UM, AND ESPECIALLY, SO FOR EXAMPLE, UH, 21ST CENTURY TASK FORCE ON POLICING THAT WAS PUT OUT, PRESIDENT OBAMA'S 21ST CENTURY TASK FORCE ON POLICING IDENTIFIED SIX DIFFERENT PILLARS AND A SERIES OF RECOMMENDATIONS FOR CHANGES.
UM, THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS WERE, WERE VERY PROFOUND AND IMPORTANT IN OUR FIELD, BUT VERY FEW OF THEM ACTUALLY WERE BASED ON RESEARCH.
AND SO NOW AS RESEARCHERS, WE'RE GOING BACK TO SEE, OKAY, WHAT'S WORKING, WHAT'S NOT.
IT'S NOT TO SAY THAT EVERYTHING THAT WE HAVE TO DO IS EVIDENCE-BASED, BECAUSE THAT MEANS, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF TIMES WE DON'T HAVE THE EVIDENCE, BUT WE HAVE TO USE INNOVATION AND THEN BE READY TO TEST AND MAKE ADJUSTMENTS.
SO THAT'S MY COMMENT ABOUT POLICE REFORMS. OKAY.
I THOUGHT YOU MENTIONED THAT IMPLEMENTING SOME OF THESE USE OF FORCE RECOMMENDATIONS HAVE LED TO REDUCED CITIZEN INJURIES AND REDUCED, UH, OFFICER, IS THAT NOT THE CASE? OH, NO, THAT'S CERTAINLY THE CASE THAT WE, THAT THERE HAVE BEEN REFORMS THAT HAVE BEEN PUT INTO PLACE.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, DEESCALATION TRAINING, RIGHT? WE KNOW THAT THAT TRAINING NOW WE HAVE THE EVIDENCE TO DEMONSTRATE THAT THAT PARTICULAR TRAINING DOES REDUCE OFFICER, UH, INJURY AND CITIZEN INJURY AND USES FORCE.
SO THERE ARE CERTAINLY REFORM EFFORTS THAT ARE EFFECTIVE, RIGHT? THE IDEA IS, WELL, LET'S, LET'S BOTTLE THOSE, LET'S BRING THOSE, UM, TO THE TABLE AND MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE DOING THAT.
BUT THEN ALSO LET'S INNOVATE AND TEST ALONG THE WAY AND THE OTHER THINGS THAT WE KNOW THAT ARE NOT WORKING OR NOT EFFECTIVE OR POTENTIALLY HAVE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES, THOSE ARE THE THINGS WE NEED TO SHED.
SO ALONG THOSE LINES, UH, I'M CURIOUS IF THERE'S ANY OTHER EXISTING RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE REFORMS AND, AND ALSO BRINGING DOWN WHAT I'M GONNA CALL LIKE THE LITIGIOUS EPISODES THAT WE DEAL WITH AS A FORCE IN A CITY REGARDING USE OF FORCE.
IS THAT ALSO IN THE CARDS? YEAH, GO AHEAD.
I HOPE SO, BUT CHIEF, I'LL LET YOU SPEAK DIRECTLY TO THAT.
NO, I THINK THAT'S ABSOLUTELY TRUE.
I MEAN, THERE, YOU KNOW, CORRELATION BETWEEN A WELL-TRAINED FORCE, UM, AND YES, LAWSUITS WOULD GO DOWN.
UH, THANK YOU SO MUCH, UH, COLLEAGUES FOR YOUR QUESTIONS.
ENGEL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR, FOR WORKING WITH OUR OFFICE ESPECIALLY TO, TO BE ABLE TO BE HERE TODAY.
WE KNOW YOU, YOU MADE IT A PRIORITY TO COME DOWN HERE AND I WANT TO THANK THE CHIEF AND OUR A CM WITH THE LEVEL OF URGENCY AND TRANSPARENCY THAT THEY, THAT THEY MET THIS ISSUE WITH AND, UH, AND, AND HOW WE WANTED TO GET BEFORE THIS, UH, COMMITTEE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.
SO WE REALLY APPRECIATE Y'ALL, THANK Y'ALL SO MUCH FOR YOUR SERVICE AND, AND FOR, UH, AND FURTHER REPORT.
UH, COLLEAGUES, THAT'LL TAKE US TO ITEM NUMBER
[3. Identify items to discuss at future meetings.]
THREE, WHICH IS, UH, IDENTIFY ITEMS TO DISCUSS IN FUTURE MEETINGS.UM, WE CAN CHAT ABOUT THAT NOW OR Y'ALL CAN SHOOT US AND SHOOT OUR OFFICE AN EMAIL AND WE CAN GO FROM THERE, BUT COMPLETELY UP TO Y'ALL.
ALRIGHT, UM, UH, MEMBERS WITH UH, NO FURTHER BUSINESS TO, TO COME BEFORE THE PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE HERE AT AUSTIN CITY COUNCIL, WITHOUT OBJECTION, THIS MEETING IS ADJOURNED AT 3 21.