* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. ORDER. UM, [00:00:01] THE TIME IS 6 0 5. [CALL TO ORDER] UH, WE'LL START WITH ROLL CALL. UH, VICE CHAIR MINORS HERE. COMMISSIONER A AULA. SEE ON THIS SCREEN ARE, CAN YOU HEAR US OKAY? LOOKS LIKE MAYBE COMMISSIONER ARRA AULA. CAN YOU HEAR ME? COMMISSIONER KHAN? CAN YOU HEAR ME? IT'S LIKE WE'RE HAVING TROUBLE WITH THE ALL EIGHT FOLKS. ALL RIGHT. CAN Y'ALL HEAR ME NOW? YEAH. ALL RIGHT. UM, SO WE'RE DOING ROLL CALL. SO, UH, COMMISSIONER ARRA AULA. AM I SAYING THAT CORRECTLY? YES. ULA? YES. ALL RIGHT. AND COMMISSIONER CARROLL. COMMISSIONER ES PRESENT. COMMISSIONER HOWARD. COMMISSIONER KAHN. PRESENT. COMMISSIONER LADNER. UH, COMMISSIONER MCKINNEY. COMMISSIONER MEKI PRESENT. AND COMMISSIONER WITCH DRUG HERE. ALRIGHT. UM, DO WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMUNICATION CHAIR? NO ONE HAS SIGNED UP FOR PUBLIC COMMUNICATION. ALL RIGHT. SO APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES [APPROVAL OF MINUTES] IS, DO WE HAVE A MOTION ON THE TABLE TO APPROVE OUR MINUTES FROM OUR LAST DESIGN COMMISSION ON APRIL 28TH? CHAIR? I'LL MOVE APPROVAL SECOND. ALRIGHT, ALL IN FAVOR OF APPROVING, UH, THE MINUTES. IT'S, IT'S OKAY FOR YOU TO VOTE IF YOU WEREN'T IN THAT LAST MEETING. JUST FYI. BUT WE HAVE, WE ONLY HAVE, WE, WE HAVE A PRETTY TIGHT GROUP HERE, SO WE HAVE SEVEN, SO WE NEED SIX TO GET A QUORUM OR TO GET A VOTE. SO COMMISSIONER KAHN, DID YOU APPROVE IT? YES. ALL RIGHT. I THINK WE GOT AND COMMISSIONER AAD AULA. DID YOU, WAS THAT A ABSTAIN? YE UM, I, I READ THE MINUTES. YES. I WOULD APPROVE. YEAH. OKAY. SO IT SOUNDS LIKE WE GOT ALL SET, UH, DISCUSSION [2. Discussion of the update to the Urban Design Guidelines. Sponsors: Commissioners Carroll, Howard, and Wittstruck.] AND ACTION ITEMS. SO A DISCUSSION OF THE UPDATE TO THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES. UH, THIS WAS SPONSORED BY COMMISSIONER CARROLL, UH, HOWARD AND, UH, UCK. UM, COMMISSIONER UCK, ARE YOU ABLE TO GIVE US A UPDATE? UH, CHAIR. I, UM, CO-SPONSORED THIS ITEM. I DID NOT REALIZE NO ONE ELSE IS GONNA BE HERE. UM, I'M NOT ENTIRELY SURE WHAT I'VE CO-SPONSORED. UM, I DON'T HAVE AN UPDATE TO GIVE, OTHER THAN MY UNDERSTANDING IS STAFF IS STILL REVIEWING, UM, AND, AND WE ARE AWAITING FEEDBACK. CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. APOLOGIES. AND CHAIR, IF I MAY, UM, I, UM, COMMISSIONER WHIR, IF YOU WANT TO, IN THIS, IN THIS SETTING, AS WE HAVE NEW COMMISSIONERS HERE, JUST PROVIDE AN UPDATE IN THE CONTEXT OF THE FULL UPDATE. SO, YOU KNOW, NOT NECESSARILY WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING SUPER RECENTLY, BUT JUST KEEPING IN MIND THAT WE HAVE NEW COMMISSIONERS WHO MIGHT BENEFIT FROM HEARING ABOUT, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S UP TO YOU, LIKE, IF YOU WANT TO START WITH WHY THE UPDATE, UH, BEGAN IN THE FIRST PLACE. AND, UM, VICE CHAIR MINORS HAS BEEN WORKING SINCE THE VERY BEGINNING, JUST TO PROVIDE SOME CONTEXT, MIGHT HELP THE NEW COMMISSIONERS. CERTAINLY I'LL DO WHAT I CAN. UM, I'M, I'M, I'M NO COMMISSIONER CARROLL IN THIS REGARD. UM, FIRST OF ALL, WELCOME TO, UH, MY NEW COLLEAGUES. UM, LOOK FORWARD TO MEETING EVERYBODY IN PERSON, UM, AND VIRTUALLY FOR TONIGHT. UM, SO I'M PART OF THE WORKING GROUP, UH, WHO HAVE, UM, TO WORKING GROUP OF THE DESIGN COMMISSION, UH, WORKING ON, UM, A COMPREHENSIVE UPDATE TO THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES. UH, THIS IS THE CITY'S GUIDING DOCUMENT FOR SCORING DENSITY BONUS PROJECTS. UH, IT'S ALSO A SORT OF DEFACTO, UM, GUIDELINE FOR US, UH, UH, REVIEWING, UH, CITY PROJECTS AS WELL. AND, UM, THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES THAT HAVE BEEN HISTORICALLY APPLIED TO THE, THE DOWNTOWN DENSITY BONUS PROGRAM, WERE FELT TO BE OUTDATED, UM, CUMBERSOME AND SOMEWHAT HARD TO SCORE. UM, PRETTY HEAVILY SUBJECTIVE. SO THE, THE WORKING GROUP HAS BEEN, [00:05:01] UH, ATTEMPTING TO PUT TOGETHER A REWRITE THAT IS MORE IN LINE WITH CURRENT BEST PRACTICES, UH, IN URBAN DESIGN, WHICH IS LESS SPECIFIC TO DOWNTOWN AND MORE FLEXIBLE FOR USE OUTSIDE OF, UM, IF, IF, IF, IF AND WHEN, UH, THERE ARE FUTURE DENSITY BONUS PROGRAMS THAT WOULD BE SUBJECT TO THIS REVIEW OUTSIDE OF THE DOWNTOWN AREA, WE WOULD HAVE THE FUTURE FLEXIBILITY FOR THEM TO BE APPLICABLE, UH, AND ULT. AND FINALLY, TO HAVE, UH, EASIER METRICS AND SCORING FOR DESIGN COMMISSIONERS TO, UM, REVIEW PROJECT APPLICATIONS AND PROVIDE FEEDBACK THAT IS, UM, BOTH QUALITATIVE AND, AND QUANTITATIVE TO APPLICANTS, UM, FOR GENERALLY BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF HOW TO BEST COMPLY WITH THESE PRACTICES. UH, THIS EFFORT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR MANY YEARS. UM, PREDATES MY ARRIVAL ON THEIS. I WAS ACTUALLY, UH, A MEMBER OF, UM, UH, VICE CHAIR MINOR'S WORKING GROUP, UM, IN MY CIVILIAN LIFE AHEAD OF THAT, UM, IN THE HALIAN DAYS. UH, AND WE TOOK THE, THOSE, UM, SUBGROUPS OF THE DESIGN COMMISSION, UH, WITH, UH, DESIGNER VOLUNTEERS WITH PROFESSIONALS, UM, IN THE DESIGN FIELDS, VOLUNTEERING ON THOSE WORKING GROUPS, PUT TOGETHER EARLY DRAFTS THAT, UM, WHILE NEARLY, WELL, THOSE EARLY DRAFTS ARE BASICALLY INDISTINGUISHABLE NOW IN THE CURRENT DRAFT, BUT THOSE EARLY DRAFTS SET THE TONE FOR WHAT KIND OF GUIDELINES WE WERE LOOKING FOR. UM, I BELIEVE, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, THE NEW URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES, IT FEATURES A VERY DIFFERENT STRUCTURE FROM THE CURRENT ONES. UM, MORE GUIDANCE ON APPLICABILITY. THERE ARE TIER ONE AND TIER TWO WHERE WE PLACE MORE EMPHASIS ON TIER ONE. UH, SO THAT SUBSTANTIAL A TIER ONE IS ESSENTIALLY A REQUIREMENT FOR PROJECT TO MEET SUBSTANTIAL COMPLIANCE ON TIER TWOS. IT'S MORE IN THE AGGREGATE. UH, I BELIEVE THE TOTAL, WE HAVE REORGANIZED THE GUIDELINES COMPLETELY, ALTHOUGH I BELIEVE THE TOTAL NUMBER OF GUIDELINES IS ONLY ONE MORE THAN THE PREVIOUS URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES. UM, SO WE KEPT IT AT, WE HAVE LABORED TO KEEP THIS DOCUMENT, UH, COMMENSURATE WITH THE SIZE AND COMPLEXITY OF THE PREVIOUS DOCUMENT, UH, WHILE PROVIDING CLARITY MOVING FORWARD. UH, SO THAT HAS COME OUT OF WORKING GROUP, UH, THAT HAS BEEN REVIEWED BY SEVERAL CITY OF AUSTIN, UM, DEPARTMENTS. THE WORKING GROUP HAS INCORPORATED DEPARTMENT FEEDBACK, UM, AND LOGGED, UH, RESPONSES TO COMMENTS THAT WERE PROVIDED, UH, GENERALLY SEEN BY CITY STAFF, UH, URBAN DESIGN, UH, COMMISSION, UH, URBAN DESIGN STAFF NOW HAVE THE DOCUMENT, UH, AND ARE REVIEWING IT. UH, THE DOCUMENT WILL BE AVAILABLE TO THE DESIGN COMMISSION AT LARGE WHEN IT'S AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC, UH, TO AVOID ISSUES WITH, UH, UM, TO AVOID QUORUM ISSUES. SO, UM, WE HAVE PREVIOUSLY SOLICITED FEEDBACK, UH, THANK YOU TO THE, UH, BY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS FOR PROVIDING THAT. UM, AND WITH THAT STAFF, I, I THINK THAT'S ABOUT AS MUCH AS I KNOW. I'M HAPPY TO HAVE YOU, UH, UM, ADD TO THAT OR CORRECT ME AS AS NECESSARY. ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ON THAT? I KNOW THAT WAS A, IT'S, IT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR A COUPLE YEARS, SO, UM, I KNOW Y'ALL ARE NEW TO THE PROCESS, BUT IF Y'ALL HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS, LET US KNOW. SO, CURRENTLY THE STATUS IS THAT, UM, CURRENTLY THE STATUS IS THAT, UM, IT IS WITH STAFF AND PUTTING TOGETHER, UH, THE PACKET IN WHICH GRAPHICS ARE GONNA BE PART OF THAT. UM, AND THEN CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR PHASE OF IT? SURE. SO I AM PLANNING TO GIVE A PRESENTATION AT THE JUNE DESIGN COMMISSION MEETING, AND I WAS GOING TO PRESENT A COUPLE OF VERY ROUGH IDEAS AROUND THE DESIGN OF THE DOCUMENT, JUST TO KIND OF HELP GET THE CONVERSATION GOING AROUND THE CONTENT. BUT AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, THE, THE DESIGN AND THE CONTENT REALLY GO TOGETHER. AND SO I THINK IN TERMS OF EDITING THE CONTENT, UNDERSTANDING THE LAYOUT IS GOING TO BE HELPFUL. AND I'D LIKE TO JUST PUT IT OUT THERE RIGHT NOW AND SEE IF IT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF I INCLUDED A LITTLE BIT OF THE HISTORY. UM, KIND OF GOING BACK, MAYBE HIGHLIGHTING THE RESOLUTION. I'VE, I'VE DONE THIS IN A COUPLE OTHER PRESENTATIONS THAT I'VE GIVEN, UH, TO THIS BODY ABOUT THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES UPDATE. UM, BUT IF THAT SOUNDS HELPFUL, I'M HAPPY TO INCLUDE SOME KIND OF CONTEXTUAL SLIDES IN THE BEGINNING JUST TO HELP SOME OF THE NEW COMMISSIONERS, UH, GET UP TO SPEED. UM, AND, AND, AND THEN [00:10:01] I THINK MAYBE IN THAT PRESENTATION IT MIGHT, THAT MIGHT GIVE US A BETTER OPPORTUNITY FOR GOING INTO HOW URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES ARE USED. AND, YOU KNOW, THE WORKFLOW THAT I CREATED, AND I KNOW I'VE, I'VE GIVEN IT TO, UM, SOME OF THE COMMISSIONERS HERE WHEN I HAVE GIVEN THE ONBOARDING PRESENTATION, UH, IS USUALLY WHEN I SEND YOU A LOT OF DOCUMENTS. UM, AND I THINK TO, TO ME, THE, THE WORKFLOW PDF THAT I CREATED IS REALLY HELPFUL. IT WAS VERY HELPFUL FOR ME TO CREATE IT WHEN I WAS NEW AS STAFF LIAISON, JUST TO UNDERSTAND SOME OF THE THINGS COMMISSIONER WHIR WAS TALKING ABOUT. SO, YOU KNOW, THERE'S THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDE GUIDELINES AS THEY'RE APPLIED TODAY, WHICH ARE BEYOND DOWNTOWN DENSITY BONUS PROJECTS. WE ALSO HAVE, LIKE, ANOTHER HUGE PART OF OUR WORKFLOW IS CITY OF AUSTIN PROJECTS THAT WILL COME AND PRESENT TO THE COMMISSION. UM, BUT AGAIN, I, I COULD TALK ABOUT THIS FOR A LONG TIME, SO IT MIGHT BE EASIER IF I JUST COVER IT IN THE PRESENTATION. AND IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS HERE, UM, I'M HAPPY TO CONSIDER THAT AND, AND ADD THAT TO THE PRESENTATION AS WELL. I DO HAVE A QUESTION. UM, COMMISSIONER MEKI. SO THE, THE QUESTION IS, UM, WHAT OTHER URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES FROM OTHER CITIES HAVE BEEN REFERENCED USED IN THE PAST AND WILL BE USED IN THE PAST FOR THIS NEW DESIGN, NEW GUIDELINES DESIGN? SO WHEN THIS, UH, GOT KICKED OFF, YOU'RE ASKING ABOUT IF WHAT OTHER CITIES GUIDELINES? SO WHEN THIS GOT KICKED OFF, WE BROKE UP INTO, I THINK IT WAS FIVE WORKING GROUPS. AND, UM, I KNOW I WAS WORKING WITH COMMISSIONER CAROL ON HIS WORKING GROUP, AND THEN WE HAD PROBABLY SIX OR SEVEN OTHER NON-COMMISSION MEMBERS WHO WERE WITHIN THE COMMUNITY WORKING IN VARIOUS CAPACITIES. AND SOME FOLKS WERE JUST, YOU KNOW, WORKING, SAW THE INVITE, UM, HAVE NO RELATIONSHIP TO DESIGN AT ALL, UM, BUT EXCEPT FOR EXPERIENCING IT. UM, AND THEN WITHIN THOSE WORKING GROUPS, I KNOW WITHIN OUR WORKING WORKING GROUP, WE WERE DEALING WITH THE BUILDING ELEMENTS. UM, AND SO WE TOOK IT INTO, I CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF THE CITY, BUT WE WERE LOOKING, UH, THERE WAS A CITY IN, YOU KNOW, NEW ZEALAND THAT HAD REALLY GREAT, UH, AND WE WERE NOT ONLY LOOKING AT THE, THE GUIDELINES, BUT ALSO THE PRESENTATION AND HOW THEY WERE SCORING IT. UH, BUT WE LOOKED AT MELBOURNE, SAN FRANCISCO, WE LOOKED AT VARIOUS OTHER CITIES, UH, JUST IN THAT WORKING GROUP. SO I KNOW OTHER WORKING GROUPS HAD THEIR OWN INPUT FROM THEIR MEMBERS OF WHAT CITIES TO LOOK AT. THANK YOU. SURE. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? QUICK QUESTION FROM MS. SPINNER, UM, WHILE YOU GUYS ARE REVIEWING, UM, I KNOW I THINK WE HAD LEFT THE DRAFT IN A PLACE WHERE THERE WAS A DESIRE TO DO SOME MINOR WORDSMITHING FOR CONSISTENCY OF TONE ACROSS ALL WITHOUT CHANGING, UM, WITHOUT MAKING SUBSTANTIVE CHANGES TO THE CONTENT. ARE WE STILL, IS THE WORKING GROUP STILL IN A PLACE WHERE WE COULD DO THAT? OR WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE US OFF THE DOCUMENT RIGHT NOW AND ALLOW THOSE REVISIONS TO HAPPEN LATER? I, I THINK THE DRAFT THAT WAS KIND OF SUBMITTED, IF YOU WILL, TO STAFF CAN JUST BE CONSIDERED THE DRAFT AS IT IS. AND AS WE START GETTING INTO, WHETHER IT'S WHAT WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT NEXT MONTH, WHICH IS THE DESIGN AND HOW THE CONTENT AND THE DESIGN, THE TEMPLATE WILL FUNCTION TOGETHER, THAT'S GONNA PRESENT ITS NEXT OPPORTUNITY, I THINK, FOR EDITING. UM, I THINK FOR SIMPLICITY, UM, I HAVE GOOD NEWS, WHICH IS THERE'S NO, NO WORK FOR YOU TO BE, TO BE DOING RIGHT NOW, CHAIR, LET THAT BE AN OFFICIAL RECORD. ALRIGHT. UM, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS OR, UM, WE'RE GONNA SEE YOUR PRESENTATION NEXT MONTH, SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ALRIGHT. OUR NEXT ITEM [3. Discussion on conducting an analysis of the Design Commission's recommendations and the final approved Downtown Density Bonus Program projects from the past ten years.] IS FOR DISCUSSION ON CONDUCTING AN ANALYSIS OF THE DESIGN COMMISSION'S RECOMMENDATIONS AND THE FINAL APPROVED DOWNTOWN DENSITY BONUS PROGRAM PROJECTS FROM THE PAST 10 YEARS. UM, AND I KNOW ON THIS, UH, WE HAVE TWO PROJECTS IN OUR BACKUP MATERIAL THAT WE'RE GONNA TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT, UM, WHAT THEIR RECOMMENDATION WAS, AND THEN ALSO THE EXISTING CONDITIONS AS IT WAS BUILT. UM, FIGURE OUT A FIGURE OUT A WAY IN WHICH WE COULD BE BETTER AT CRAFTING RECOMMENDATIONS AND, UM, SEE WHAT THE OUTCOMES ARE. UM, WHAT PART WOULD Y'ALL LIKE TO LOOK AT FIRST? I KNOW WE'VE GOT SOME PHOTOS, UM, AND WE'VE GOT THE PRESENTATION PACKET. WE'VE GOT QUITE A BIT OF APPROVED PACKET PIECES IN HERE. [00:15:05] SHALL WE LOOK AT 4 0 5 COLORADO, THE PRESENTATION FIRST? AND LET'S, LET'S DO THAT. LET'S PULL THAT ONE UP FROM 4 24 17. ARE Y'ALL, ARE Y'ALL OKAY WITH JUST SCROLLING DOWN TO THE, UH, FIRST FLOOR MAP? UH, I THINK IT'S IN CLOSE TO THE END AT THE, UM, NO CLOSE. IT'S CLOSE TO THE, UM, IT'S IN BETWEEN THE INTERIOR ELEVATION OR THE, THE, THE INTERIOR. THOSE NEXT THERE? NOPE. ONE MORE. NO, LET'S SEE. I THOUGHT THE THOUGHT IT WAS IN THERE. THERE YOU GO. THAT ONE, SEE, I'M PULLING IT UP AS WELL. SO, SORRY. SO WE'RE AT THE CORNER OF FOURTH AND COLORADO, UM, OUTDOOR ELEMENTS, GREEN STREET RELATED GREAT STREETS, THE GREAT STREETS GREEN STREET. UM, WE HAVE ON THE UPPER LEFT THERE ON COLORADO, WE HAVE THE, UM, PARKING GARAGE ENTRANCE, UM, A LOBBY AND, UM, A FOOD AND BEVERAGE IN THE ORANGE. AND I NEED MY GLASSES PUMP ROOM. THERE WE GO. AND THIS WAS PART OF THE PRESENTATION BACK IN 2017, YOU KNOW, BEFORE THEY, UM, OBVIOUSLY STARTED BUILDING THIS. AND, UM, WE CAN SEE THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A RESTAURANT IN THERE THAT OCCUPIES, YOU KNOW, QUITE A BIT OF SQUARE FOOTAGE AND THERE'S THAT LOBBY IN THE WHITE. UM, DO Y'ALL WANNA LOOK AT THE EXISTING PICTURES THAT ARE PART OF THE BACKUP, OR DO Y'ALL HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON THIS? YEAH, HAVE A COMMENT VICE. YEAH. SO I THINK JUST LOOKING AT WHAT WAS PROPOSED, UM, YOU KNOW, INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, I KNOW THAT A LOT OF WHAT WE'LL NOTE IS NOT GOING TO BE COVERED WITHIN THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES, BUT I THINK IT COULD POTENTIALLY INFLUENCE OR CONNECT TO THE WORK THAT'S BEING DONE, UM, AS PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED BY COMMISSIONER WOODS STRUCK WITH REGARD TO THE, THE REFRESH OF THE GUIDELINES MM-HMM . UM, SO I THINK WITH THAT BEING TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION, UM, ONE THING THAT, UH, I'D LIKE TO STATE FIRST AND FOREMOST IS THAT THIS PROJECT UHS PRECEDES MY TENURE ON THE DESIGN COMMISSION. I CAME SHORTLY THEREAFTER. UM, SO I THINK IF I HAD BEEN A, A MEMBER OF THE COMMISSION AT THE TIME, I THINK ONE THING THAT, UM, I WOULD'VE OPINED ON, UM, IS JUST HOW LARGE THAT LOBBY SPACE IS, UH, RELATIVE TO THE, UM, OVERALL PLAN. UM, IT'S, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S AS BIG AS THE RESTAURANT FROM THIS PARTICULAR, UH, VANTAGE POINT. UM, SO I THINK, UH, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE A, UH, GUIDELINE THAT TALKS ABOUT, UM, HOW MUCH SPACE IS DEDICATED TO PUBLIC USE, BUT, UM, WE DO TALK ABOUT HAVING MULTIPLE USES. AND ONE THING I NOTICED IS THAT THE APPLICANT SAID THAT THEY HAD THREE USES. UM, ONE USE WAS THE OFFICE COMPONENT, ONE WAS THE RESTAURANT COMPONENT, AND THEN THEY'RE SETTING THE THIRD AS THE PUBLIC PARKING. SO THAT, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT STOOD OUT TO ME. UM, I THINK IN GENERAL, UH, A LOT OF WHAT I HAVE SEEN, UM, WITH THIS PARTICULAR, UH, ORIENTATION, UM, HAS CREATED, UH, A DEAD SPACE IN ONE OF OUR ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICTS. UM, ONE THING THAT I THINK THAT WE SHOULD CONSIDER, UM, IS KIND OF THE CONTEXT OF WHAT WAS THERE VERSUS WHAT IS HERE . AND IN THE PAST, THIS WAS A PARKING LOT. SO I THINK TAKING THAT INTO CONSIDERATION, UM, AND NOTING THAT THERE WAS A FOOD TRUCK THAT WAS LOCATED AT THIS [00:20:01] SITE, IT WAS OLOS MM-HMM . AND THAT WAS CONSISTENTLY CREATING ACTIVATION ON COLORADO STREET, UM, EVEN AFTER HOURS. UM, SO I WOULD SAY THAT, UH, THE CURRENT, UH, PROPOSAL DIDN'T REALLY, UM, IMPROVE ACTIVATION ON COLORADO. IF ANYTHING, IT DIMINISHED THAT ACTIVATION. UM, SO THAT'S JUST ONE OBSERVATION THAT I HAVE RIGHT OFF THE BAT. UM, AND I DO THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, HAD THE LOBBY BEEN REDUCED IN SIZE, UH, I THINK THEY COULD HAVE LIKELY FIT IN MORE, UH, MORE RENTABLE COMMERCIAL SPACE AND OR COMMUNITY SPACE. UM, I ALSO THINK THE ORIENTATION, UM, HAD THEY, UH, LOCATED THOSE, UH, PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE AMENITIES, UM, AS FAR AS LIKE RETAIL, UH, AND COMMERCIAL ON THE CORNER, UH, THEN THAT COULD HAVE HELPED TO ACTIVATE BOTH COLORADO AND FOURTH STREET. UM, SO THOSE ARE JUST MY INITIAL THOUGHTS BASED ON WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT CURRENTLY AND MY OWN EXPERIENCE IN THE, IN THE UPDATES THAT ARE BEING MADE, UH, AS FAR AS TIER ONE, TIER TWO, UM, YOU KNOW, SPEAKING TO THE SIZES OF THOSE SPACES AND THE ACTIVATION AND, YOU KNOW, THE DIFFERENCE IN THOSE. UM, ARE THERE ANY KIND OF, UH, ANY KIND OF THOUGHT ON THE PRIORITIZING THE SIZE ON, ON, YOU KNOW, THAT ACTIVATED RESTAURANT SPACE VERSUS A LOBBY? ARE YOU SAYING THAT NO, THAT'S NOT IN THE UPDATE, YOU KNOW, TO, TO MAKE THOSE SPACES SMALLER? DO Y'ALL KNOW I WOULD DEFER TO THE, UH, WORKING GROUP. DO YOU KNOW COMMISSIONER RICHARD DRAKE? I'M SORRY, CHAIR. CAN YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION? YEAH. IF THERE IS A, A PRIORITY SET IN THE UPDATES TO THE DESIGN STANDARDS ABOUT THE DIFFERENCES OF THOSE USE AND SIZES OF, OF WHAT IDEALLY, YOU KNOW, PERCENTAGE WISE, UM, THAT, YOU KNOW, A LOBBY VERSUS A RESTAURANT. UH, THE, THE DRAFT DOCUMENTS, THE DRAFT, UM, URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES DO NOT APPLY PERCENTAGES OR NUMBERS TO THAT. OKAY. UM, SO THERE, WE, WE ARE BOUND IN THAT WE ARE, WE'RE NOT WRITING CODES, SO WE CAN'T, WE DON'T FEEL LIKE THAT IT'S APPROPRIATE TO PUT, TO PUT NUMBERS ON THESE, UH, AS YOU WOULD IN A, IN A REGULATORY, UH, ENVIRONMENT. THIS ONE THING WE ARE DOING THOUGH WITH THE, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, THE, THE TIER ONE AND TIER TWO IS AN ATTEMPT TO PROVIDE STAFF GUIDANCE ON OUR PRIORITIES. UM, SO RIGHT NOW, THE A DESIGN GUIDELINES, HOWEVER MANY OF THEM THERE ARE, THERE IS NO WAY FOR STAFF TO INTERPRET WHICH OF THOSE ARE ELEVATED TO BECOMING MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANY OF THE OTHERS, UH, IN THE MINDS OF THIS BODY. UM, I THINK IN MY TIME ON THE DAIS, I'VE SEEN THAT OUR GROUND FLOOR ACTIVE USES CONTINUES TO RISE TO THE TOP OF SOMETHING. WE PRIORITIZE OVER A LOT OF THE, YOU KNOW, URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES NOW, INCLUDING SOME OF WHICH WE, YOU KNOW, DON'T EVEN REALLY THINK ARE THAT APPLICABLE ANYMORE. UM, THEREFORE IN THE DRAFT DOCUMENT, THIS IS, UH, THE, UM, ACTIVIS ACTIVE ACTIVATING THE, THE GROUND FLOOR AND PEDESTRIAN USES AND BUILDING USES IS A TOP IS REFERENCED IN MULTIPLE OF THE, OF THE, UM, GUIDELINES AND ALL OF WHICH TO THE TOP OF MY KNOWLEDGE ARE TIER ONES. SO WE'VE REALLY PLACED A LOT OF EMPHASIS ON THIS. UM, AND, UH, SORRY, I WASN'T, I WASN'T IGNORING YOU EARLIER. I WAS READING OVER THE RECOMMENDATION LETTER FROM, UM, THE DESIGN COMMISSION. AGAIN, I WAS NOT ON THE COMMISSION AT THE TIME OF THIS, UM, 2017. UM, BUT MY SCAN OF THIS LETTER IS THAT IN, UM, IN THE AGGREGATE, THIS PROJECT APPLIED WITH ALMOST ALL OF THE, UH, URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES. AND THE COMMISSION APPEARED TO AGREE WITH THAT AS MOST OF THE, UM, UH, GUIDELINES HERE THAT ARE LISTED ARE SAID TO EITHER BE NOT APPLICABLE OR THAT THE PRO PROJECT COMPLIES. HOWEVER, CREATING DENSE DEVELOPMENT, UM, AREA WIDE GUIDELINE NUMBER ONE, CREATING MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT AREA, UH, AREA WIDE GUIDELINE TWO ARE BOTH ONES THAT THE COMMISSION FELT THAT THIS PROJECT FELL SHORT ON. UH, SPECIFICALLY CITING 13 STORIES OF PARKING AND ONLY 12 STORIES OF HABITABLE SPACE, UH, IS NOT INCREASING DENSITY AS INTENDED. UH, ONLY 19.5% OF THE GROUND FLOOR, STREET LEVEL IS MIXED USE, UH, AND ONLY DESIGNED FOR ONE TENANT ONLY 1.94% OF TOTAL BUILDING AREAS. MIXED USE BUILDINGS MUST HAVE 25% [00:25:01] OR MORE OF THEIR FLOOR AREAS, A DIFFERENT USE TO COMPLY. PARKING IS NOT CONSIDERED A MIXED USE AS, UH, UM, VICE CHAIR MINORS BROUGHT THAT UP. UM, AND THE COMMISSION RECOMMENDED PERFORM PREFER MORE MIXED USE WITH MULTIPLE TENANTS TO INCREASE PEDESTRIAN PUBLIC PEDESTRIAN ACTIVITY AT THE STREET LEVEL PROJECT DOES NOT SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLY WITH THIS SECTION. UH, NOW WHAT, WHAT I DON'T KNOW. AND WHAT, WHAT I IMAGINE IS THAT, UM, THIS WAS TAKEN THE, UH, THIS INIT, UH, INITIATES A CONVERSATION BETWEEN STAFF AND THE APPLICANT, UM, AND IN THE AGGREGATE, AGAIN, UM, THIS PROJECT WOULD APPEAR TO APPLY WITH THE NEW WEIGHTING OF THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES, AS, AS WE ARE SHOWING NOW WITH THE TIER ONES. UM, I SUSPECT THAT WE WOULD, THAT THIS COMMISSION WOULD, UH, AND TO BE CLEAR, THE COMMISSION, THE VOTE FOR THIS LETTER IN 2017, UM, WAS A MOTION TO PRO APPROVE THE LETTER WHICH STATES THE PROJECT IS PRESENTED DOES NOT SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLY WITH THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES. UH, SO WHAT, IF ANY CHANGES WERE MADE TO THE PROJECT AFTER THIS LETTER IS, IS NOT SOMETHING THAT I'VE RESEARCHED PERSONALLY. I THINK THAT'S BEEN PART OF THIS CONVERSATION WE'RE WANTING TO HAVE IS HOW ALL THAT FEEDBACK CAN COME BACK TO THE DESIGN COMMISSION, UM, REGARDING THE, THE WHAT LEVEL, UH, IF ANY, OUR, OUR RECOMMENDATIONS HAVE GENERATED, UM, REVISIONS TO THE DESIGN. COMMISSIONER GALES, THANK YOU CHAIR. UM, I, I WILL ALSO JUST NOTE THAT I WAS NOT A MEMBER OF THE DESIGN COMMISSION AT THIS TIME. AND THEN IN REFERRING TO THE DOCUMENTS THAT YOU'VE PROVIDED, I, UM, I WAS HOPING WE COULD PULL UP THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT THE CURRENT STREET VIEW, UM, OF HOW THE PROJECT WAS ACTUALLY COMPLETED AND WHAT EXISTS TODAY. UM, WHAT STOOD OUT FOR ME, UM, AS PART OF THIS, UH, MEMORANDUM, UH, OUTLINING THE APPROVAL, UM, OF THE DENSITY BONUS WAS THE REQUIREMENTS NEEDED TO BE NEEDING TO BE MET BEFORE A CERTIFICATE, CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY COULD BE GRANTED. NOW, REQUIREMENT NUMBER THREE IN THAT DOCUMENT STATES THAT, UH, THE PROJECT IS TO REMAIN CONSISTENT WITH THE DRAWINGS. NOW IT SAYS, IT DOES SAY, SEE ATTACHMENTS. UM, AND IN THE, UH, DOCUMENT I RECEIVED, I, I WASN'T, IT WASN'T EXACTLY WHICH DRAWINGS, AND I THINK THIS IS POINTING TO THE CLARITY THAT WE MUST PROVIDE IN THIS SORT OF, UM, OUTLINE OF APPROVAL SPECI SPECIFICS OF DRAWING NUMBERS AND DRAWING TITLES, I THINK MUST BE ATTACHED. BUT IF I DO REFER TO THE LANDSCAPE DRAWING AND ALSO THE RENDERINGS WE SAW PREVIOUSLY, THERE ARE SEVERAL ITEMS THAT WERE NOT BUILT. IT SEEMS, AND I'M LOOKING AT THE STREET, STREET VIEW HERE, I DON'T NECESSARILY SEE THE LANDSCAPE PLANTERS THAT WERE PROPOSED, UM, IN, IN THE LOCATIONS AS SHOWN. I THINK THERE WAS AN INTENTIONALITY TO PROVIDE OUTDOOR CAFE STYLE SEATING AROUND THOSE ELEMENTS. UM, AND THIS ALL POINTS TO, I THINK, THE LACKING THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN OUTLINED BY MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS IN ACTIVATING THE STREETSCAPE, WHICH IS, UH, A MAJOR PART OF THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES, UM, THAT I THINK HAS, HAS BEEN MISSED WITH THIS, UM, PEDESTRIAN INTERACTION AND PEDESTRIAN SCALE, HUMAN ELEMENTS, HUMAN SCALE ELEMENTS, MATERIAL EXPRESSION, ALL ADD TO THAT QUALITY OF PUBLIC SPACE. AND IT, IT LEADS ME TO WONDER, AND AND THIS IS SOMETHING WE'VE DISCUSSED HERE AS A GROUP BEFORE, WHEN THE DECISION IS MADE TO DEVIATE FROM THOSE DRAWINGS, WHAT IS THE PROCESS TO RETURN, TO SEEK FURTHER APPROVAL? IT SEEMS AS THOUGH THERE ISN'T ONE CURRENTLY, UM, A WAY TO FOLLOW UP AND, AND, UH, REAFFIRM THAT WHAT WAS PRESENTED WAS ACTUALLY CONSTRUCTED. UM, AND AGAIN, IN THIS DOCUMENT IT DOES SAY CERTIFICATE OF CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY WILL NOT BE GRANTED UNLESS, UH, THESE REQUIREMENTS ARE MET. IT SEEMS AS THOUGH THAT'S SORT OF THE LAST STOP, THE FOR CHECKS THAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE. AND THAT'S ALL TIED TO THE SITE PLAN AS FAR AS I'M UNDERSTANDING IT. BUT, UH, IS THERE ANY ROOM TO DISCUSS THAT END PORTION OF THE PROCESS, UH, AS IT PARTICULARLY ALIGNS TO THIS PROJECT? AND, AND THAT'S, I GUESS, A QUESTION FOR STAFF. SO YEAH, SOPHIA? [00:30:01] YEAH, IT'S QUITE COMPLICATED. I'LL SAY THERE'S THE PORTION OF ADMINISTRATIVE REVIEW THAT URBAN DESIGN MANAGES, BUT FROM THERE, WHEN A, YOU KNOW, AN ACTIVE SITE PLAN CAN GO THROUGH MANY PHASES OF REVIEW, INCLUDING MANY PHASES OF REVISIONS, AND THERE'S JUST A LOT OF PART THAT'S, WE'RE STILL TALKING ABOUT SITE PLAN REVIEW AND, AND CORRECTIONS, LIKE WE'RE STILL TALKING ABOUT 2D AT THAT POINT, NOT BREAKING GROUND. AND SO THEN ESSENTIALLY FROM, IF YOU THINK ABOUT FROM THE POINT OF WHEN A SITE PLAN IS REVIEWED BY DESIGN COMMISSION, WHICH IS GENERALLY AROUND THE SAME TIME THAT, UH, THE URBAN DESIGN STAFF HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO WEIGH IN, THERE'S A LOT OF TIME AND A LOT OF OTHER CHANGES THAT COME UP BETWEEN THEN AND WHEN THE PROJECT IS BUILT ON THE GROUND. UM, AND THAT, I MIGHT BE OVERSIMPLIFYING IT FOR THE SAKE OF, OF BREVITY HERE, BUT THERE'S JUST A LOT THAT, UM, THAT, WELL, THERE'S A LOT THAT'S OUT OF OUR CONTROL AS FAR AS BIGGER PROBLEMS THAT COME UP, INCLUDING DURING CONSTRUCTION, UTILITIES UNDERGROUND THAT ARE DISCOVERED THINGS THAT NEED TO BE MOVED. AND SO, I, I DON'T HAVE A VERY GOOD ANSWER FOR YOU FOR THAT. I THINK IT MIGHT, THE ANSWER MIGHT BE DIFFERENT PROJECT BY PROJECT, BUT WHAT I CAN SAY, KIND OF BRINGING US BACK TO THE OPPORTUNITY AT HAND HERE TODAY IS I THINK LOOKING AT THESE PROJECTS AND REFLECTING ON WHAT GUIDELINES SEEM TO BE EFFECTIVE AND WHAT GUIDELINES NEED TO BE CHANGED, OR WHAT GUIDELINES ARE MISSING, AND WHAT KIND OF GUIDANCE THE DESIGN COMMISSION CAN PROVIDE IN THE OPPORTUNITY THAT DESIGN COMMISSION HAS, WHICH IS UPDATING THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES RIGHT NOW. SO I, I, I THINK I WOULD JUST ENCOURAGE IN THIS EXERCISE, UM, TO THINK ABOUT WHAT MIGHT BE MISSING IN THE UPDATE TO THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES, IF, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER TRO. UH, THANK YOU FOR THAT. AND, UH, ONE THING I LEFT OUTTA MY PRESENTATION EARLIER IS THAT IN THE SPIRIT OF, UH, OF WHAT, UM, SPINNER JUST WENT OVER, THE NEW GUIDELINES, UM, DO PROVIDE, UM, CLARITY ON HOW TO MEET THE OBJECTIVE WITHOUT GETTING INTO THE DESIGN. UM, WE DO DESIGN, WE OFFER, WE, THE, THE DRAFT OFTEN OFFERS EXAMPLES OF HOW THE OBJECTIVE MIGHT BE, UH, ACHIEVED. BUT, UM, CENTRAL TO EACH OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS IS A SERIES OF, UH, MUST AND SHOULD STATEMENTS, UM, AND, UH, FOR AN APPLICANT, UH, WHEN ENCOUNTERING A MUST STATEMENT THAT WHAT THAT STATEMENT SAYS MUST BE ACCOMPLISHED IN ORDER TO MEET THAT GUIDELINE. NOW, MEETING THAT GUIDELINE MIGHT NOT NECESSARILY BE A REQUIREMENT, BUT IN ORDER TO MEET THAT GUIDELINE, THE APPLICANT MUST DO SOME THINGS. AND WHEN THE WORKING GROUP FELT THAT IT WAS IN, UM, EITHER IMPERMISSIBLE OR INFEASIBLE TO REQUIRE IT, WE PROVIDE SHOULD STATEMENTS AS THOUGH AS A RECOMMENDATION THAT THAT SHOULD BE ACCOMPLISHED. UM, ALTHOUGH IT'S NOT NECESSARILY A MUST. SO THERE IS MORE GUIDANCE BEING PROVIDED IN, IN HOW WE ACTUALLY SCORE EACH INDIVIDUAL, UM, OF THE, OF THE GUIDELINES, UM, IN THE NEW DRAFT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? I KNOW THAT, UM, JUST REITERATING WHAT YOU SAID, UM, YEAH, JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE CAN GET BETTER AT WHAT WE DO AND ON OUR PART OF IT, AND HOW WE CAN COMMUNICATE EFFECTIVELY TO YOU GUYS AND Y'ALL'S TEAM WHEN WE MAKE THESE RECOMMENDATIONS OF WHAT IS IMPORTANT. UM, I THINK ONCE IT GOES BEYOND THAT, HOW DO WE, I GUESS THAT'S THE QUESTION OF LIKE, THERE'S SO MANY OTHER THINGS INVOLVED PROJECT BY PROJECT THAT DECISIONS ARE MADE THAT, UH, ALTER THESE PROCESSES. AND SO TRYING TO UNDERSTAND, UM, HOW THESE RECOMMENDATIONS KIND OF FIT INTO THAT SPACE, UH, AND IF THEY'RE CARRIED OVER, YOU KNOW, IS THAT IMPORTANCE KIND OF CARRIED OVER AS A, IN, IN THE DECISIONS THAT Y'ALL MAKE? SO, OR IS THERE A WAY FOR US TO COMMUNICATE THAT BETTER? WELL, AND, AND CHAIR, UM, IF I MAY, ONE DIFFICULTY THAT WE'RE ALL NAVIGATING HERE IS THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES, YOU KNOW, OPERATING AS GUIDELINES AS OPPOSED TO STANDARDS, THE MANY DIFFERENT CODE STANDARDS AND REQUIREMENTS MM-HMM . THAT AN APPLICANT, UM, [00:35:01] MUST COMPLY WITH IN A VERY SPECIFIC WAY. AND WHEN WE'RE DEALING WITH THESE COMPLICATED PROJECTS, OFTEN THOSE THINGS ARE CLASHING AND IT'S HARD TO IDENTI, SOMETIMES IT'S HARD TO IDENTIFY THEM UPFRONT WHEN THEY CLASH, BUT IT IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE DON'T REALLY HAVE THE CAPACITY TO ENFORCE THE GUIDELINES IN THE SAME WAY THAT YOU ENFORCE OTHER DESIGN STANDARDS. UM, COMMISSIONER CHAIR, I MAY, I, UM, SHOULD HAVE HAD MY, MY NOTES IN FRONT OF ME AND PULL UP AND JUST, UM, BECAUSE WE ARE KIND OF STRADDLING, UM, EXPLAINING THE PROCESS OF UPDATING THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES TO THE NEW COMMISSIONERS AND, AND GERMANE TO THIS TOPIC, I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE USEFUL TO EXPAND ON MY PREVIOUS COMMENTS. SO THE, THE NEW STRUCTURE, UH, FOR THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES FOR ESTABLISHING SUBSTANTIAL COMPLIANCE FOR A GUIDELINE WILL BE, UM, THERE'S A SERIES OF CATEGORIES, AND THE FIRST ONE IS PRIORITIES. THAT'S THE TIER ONE OR TIER TWO. UH, TIER ONE INDICATES THAT, THAT THE GUIDELINE IS, IS MANDATORY TO MEETING SUBSTANTIAL COMPLIANCE. UH, TIER TWO IS OPTIONAL, BUT HIGHLY RECOMMENDED APPLICANTS MAY CHOOSE WHICH TIER TWO GUIDELINES THEY WANT TO COMPLY WITH, UH, FOR THE PROJECT TO BE CONSIDERED IN SUBSTANTIAL COMPLETION. BELOW THAT IS THE VALUES WE REFERENCE, UH, THE VALUES THAT HAVE COME OUT OF THE URBAN DESIGN, UH, WORKING GROUPS, UH, CLIMATE ENVIRONMENT, MOBILITY AND CONNECTIVITY, EQUITY AND AFFORDABILITY, CULTURAL PRESERVATION, HEALTH SAFETY, WELFARE DESIGN, EXCELLENCE AND ADAPT, ADAPTABILITY AND RESILIENCE. SO THEMATICALLY ORGANIZING, UH, AROUND THOSE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE COVERING, UM, THE VALUES PUT FORWARD BY, BY THE COMMISSION AND WORK WORKING GROUPS. UH, THIS IS FOLLOWED BY INTENT. THE INTENT DESCRIBES THE DESIRED OUTCOME OF EACH GUIDELINE. SO WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT DESCRIBING A DESIGN PRACTICE. WE'RE WE'RE DESCRIBING THE OUTCOME. WE WANNA SEE DESIRE SO THAT APPLICANTS HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF HOW TO DESIGN FOR COMPLIANCE. FOLLOWING THAT IS THE CONDITIONS. UH, SO THAT'S WHAT I SPOKE ABOUT BEFORE. THE CONDITIONS, IDENTIFY SPECIFIC CRITERIA THAT EACH PROJECT MUST MEET, UH, AND THESE CAN BE SET UP AS THE, THE MUST AND SHOULD STATEMENTS FOR GUIDANCE FOR THE APPLICANT. UH, AND THEN FINALLY, EXAMPLES. SO EXAMPLES OF COMPLIANCE MIGHT, UH, AND NOT EVERY, UM, ONE NECESSARILY HAS, UH, EXAMPLES, BUT EXAMPLES ARE NOT MEANT TO BE A REQUIREMENT. THEY'RE SIMPLY, UM, THE WORKING GROUP AND THE DESIGN COMMISSION PROVIDING GUIDANCE, UH, AS BEST WE UNDERSTAND OF SOME EXAMPLES OF HOW THAT MIGHT BE ACHIEVED SO THAT APPLICANTS CAN, CAN HAVE AN, A REAL WORLD UNDERSTANDING OF, UM, SOME MEANS BY WHICH, UH, THEY MIGHT ACHIEVE THE, THE, UH, INTENT AND CONDITIONS. SO I THOUGHT, UM, FLAVORING THIS CONVERSATION WITH THAT STRUCTURE WOULD BE HELPFUL. UM, CHAIR, I MAY PIVOT. I, I THINK FOR, FOR STAFF, AND I THINK THE, THE, THE TWO-WAY CONVERSATION SINCE I'VE BEEN ON THE DIOCESE HAS BEEN STAFF IMPLORING US TO GIVE MORE SPECIFIC FEEDBACK RELATED TO THE, THE SPECIFIC GUIDELINES IN OUR RECOMMENDATIONS SUCH THAT, SO THAT THEY CAN HAVE, UM, SPECIFIC PLACES TO POINT TO WHICH OF THE GUIDELINES WE DON'T FEEL SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLY AND, AND WHY. SO WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO WRITE OUR RECOMMENDATION LETTERS TO SPECIFICALLY CALL OUT THE, THE POINTS. OUR, MY HOPE IS THAT THE STRUCTURE OF THE NEW DRAFT THAT I JUST WENT OVER WILL LEND ITSELF TO A BETTER STAFF UNDERSTANDING. AND THEN I THINK FROM OUR SIDE IS SEEING IN CASES WHERE THERE MIGHT NOT BE, THERE MIGHT BE, SAY WE'RE RIGHT ON THE EDGE OF SAYING SOMETHING SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLIES, OR THERE'S SOME DEBATE ON THE DAIS, OR WE THINK IT DOES NOT SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLY, AND WE PROVIDE GUIDANCE COMING BACK TO STAFF. WE NEVER GET ANY FEEDBACK BACK FROM THAT ON HOW A PROCESS. SO, UM, IN THE CASE OF THIS PROJECT THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT, AS AN EXAMPLE, GOING FROM A LETTER, FROM A LETTER FROM THE DESIGN COMMISSION TO THE PROJECT DOES NOT SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLY TO IT BEING APPROVED IS OBVIOUSLY AT STAFF'S DISCRETION. UH, WE'RE NOT A REGULATORY, WE'RE ADVISORY, UH, WE UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT I THINK WE'RE TRYING TO GET OUR HEADS AROUND HOW A PROJECT THAT THIS COMMISSION, YOU KNOW, VOTES, VOTES TO, UM, NOT RECOMMEND AS, AS, UH, SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLYING WITH THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDES WOULD ULTIMATELY GET ACCEPTED, AND HOW WE MIGHT DOCUMENT HOW, WHAT CHANGES WERE MADE, SPECIFIC TO THE COMMENTS THAT CAME FROM THIS COMMISSION, VICE CHAIR MINORS. ALRIGHT. UM, SO I JUST WANTED TO LOOK AT SOME OF THE, UH, GUIDELINES THAT NOT ONLY WERE MENTIONED IN THE LETTER, BUT JUST IN GENERAL TO KIND OF COLLECT SOME ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS. UM, SO I KNOW, UH, IT WAS POINTED OUT THAT, UM, CIVIC ART WOULD BE DISPLAYED IN THE LOBBY, UM, AND YOU CAN'T REALLY SEE IT ON IN THE BACKUP MATERIAL, UH, TO MY KNOWLEDGE. UM, BUT I, I DID A LITTLE GOOGLE SEARCH AND LOOKED AT THE, UH, ART THAT'S IN THE LOBBY. UM, IT APPEARS THAT THERE [00:40:01] IS, UH, WHAT LOOKS TO BE WALLPAPER, UH, THAT EMULATES CLOUDS. UM, SO, YOU KNOW, I GUESS WHAT CONSTITUTES ART IS SUBJECTIVE. UM, BUT I DO THINK THAT, UM, IN THIS CASE, IT WOULD BE REALLY HARD TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN ART AND JUST A WALL TREATMENT. UM, SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK, UH, HAVING A FOCUS ON, UM, SUBSTANTIAL PUBLIC ART, UM, THAT'S MORE IN THE PUBLIC REALM. I KNOW THEY'RE SAYING THAT BECAUSE IT'S IN THE LOBBY AND IT'S VISIBLE FROM THE STREET, UM, THAT THAT'S THE PUBLIC REALM. UM, BUT I WOULD ARGUE, I DON'T KNOW, YOU KNOW, IF AT ALL TIMES OF DAY THAT THIS ART IS, UH, VISIBLE, UM, DEPENDING ON, YOU KNOW, THE LIGHTING, UM, OBVIOUSLY AT NIGHT IT'S ILLUMINATED SO YOU CAN SEE IT. UM, BUT I DO THINK THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, HAVING A PUSH FOR, UH, STRONGER, UM, ART, UH, OUTSIDE, UM, OF THE BUILDING MURALS AND WHATNOT, UH, I THINK MIGHT HAVE MADE THIS PROJECT, UM, HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE PLACEMAKING. UM, ANOTHER THING TOO THAT, UM, I KNOW JUST FROM, UH, PUBLIC PERCEPTION MEDIA COVERAGE, UM, THERE'S A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT THE PARKING GARAGE, AND I THINK WITH A LOT OF OUR BUILDINGS, UM, WE HAVE, UH, YOU KNOW, SOME APPLICANTS WHO ARE USING DIFFERENT TREATMENTS TO COVER THEIR PARKING GARAGE. UM, AND, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE NEW GUIDELINES, UM, BUT I DO THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE, UH, EXISTING GUIDELINES THAT WE HAVE, UM, TALKS ABOUT, LEMME SEE IF I CAN REFERENCE IT BY, BY NAME. UM, PS 11, WHICH IS SCREENING MECHANICAL AND UTILITY EQUIPMENT. I THINK THAT, UM, THAT ALONG WITH THE GUIDELINE FOR, UM, LEMME SEE IF I CAN FIND IT AGAIN TO QUOTE IT, UH, VERBATIM. UM, BUT, UH, THE ONE THAT REFERENCES ROOFTOPS BEING VISIBLE FROM OTHER SPACES, UM, A W NINE ACKNOWLEDGED THAT ROOFTOPS ARE SEEN FROM OTHER BUILDINGS AND THE STREET. I FEEL LIKE WITH THOSE TWO, THE INTENT WAS TO BE COGNIZANT OF HOW YOU ARE IMPACTING THE, UH, DIRECT VICINITY OF, OF YOUR BUILDING. UM, AND ALSO BEING MINDFUL OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT MIGHT BE SEEN AS AN EYESORE FROM THE COMMUNITY. UM, SO I FEEL LIKE THIS PARKING PODIUM AND, AND A LOT OF OUR PARKING PODIUMS, UM, THEY ARE ABLE TO SLIP THROUGH OUR GUIDELINES BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING THAT EXPLICITLY CALLS THEM OUT, UH, FOR REVIEW. UM, SO I'M JUST CURIOUS, UH, WHAT EVERYONE'S THOUGHTS ARE ON OUR INTERPRETATION OF THE EXISTING GUIDELINES AND IF THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR EVOLUTION OR IF THERE'S ANYTHING WITHIN THE WORKING GROUP THAT MIGHT TOUCH ON, UM, OUR ABILITY TO COMMENT ON SUCH STRUCTURES. CHAIR, IF I MAY. I'M SORRY, COMMISSIONER WORKERS? YES, PLEASE. UM, COMMISSIONER WINDSTAR. UM, I ACTUALLY LIKE HOW YOU WERE, UM, DESCRIBING THE TIER ONE AND TIER TWO, AND I'M WONDERING IF THERE IS A WAY OR PATH FORWARD TO MOVE INTO A SORT OF A SCORECARD. SO IF A PROJECT ADHERES TO TIER ONE AND CERTAIN ELEMENTS AND BUT DOESN'T DO IT DONE FULLY, CAN WE ASSIGN SOME NUMERIC SCORES TO THAT AND THEN PRESENT GUIDELINES WITH THE SCORECARD TO THE STAFF TO MAYBE SIMPLIFY, UM, OR MAYBE PROVIDE SORT OF A, A, A MORE TANGIBLE WAY OF REVIEWING PROJECTS RIGHT NOW, OR FIVE YEARS FROM NOW WHEN IT'S CONSTRUCTED? COMMISSIONER RE UM, I APPRECIATE THAT FEEDBACK. IT, IT IS SOMETHING WE HAVE DISCUSSED. UM, THE WORKING GROUP FELT THAT IT WOULD BE A BIT ARBITRARY ON OUR PART TO ASSIGN THOSE VALUES, BUT WE'RE SET UP IN A WAY THAT THAT COULD BE, UM, IF WE GO THROUGH THE, THE STAFF REVIEW AND PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT AND, AND COMMENT FROM THIS, UH, UM, THIS BODY, I THINK IN PRINCIPLE THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE TO ME, AND THE STRUCTURE WOULD BE THERE. AND I THINK IF WE'RE, IF WE'RE LOOKING TO PROVIDE CLARITY, UM, TO APPLICANTS AS WELL AS TO THE COMMISSION, THAT SEEMS LIKE A GREAT COURSE OF ACTION. UM, I'M NOT SURE THAT WE'LL GET THERE, BUT I LIKE THE IDEA GOING TO VICE CHAIR MINER'S, UH, COMMENT ABOUT LIKE PARKING GARAGES AND UTILIZING THE ART COMPONENT TO, UM, ADDRESS THE SCREENING FOR THE PARKING GARAGES. UM, UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT WOULD BE A MORE OF AN ARCHITECTURAL COMPONENT. BUT, YOU KNOW, AN ARCHITECTURAL COMPONENT HAS ART IN A SENSE. AND, UM, I CAN'T RECALL FROM THE BUILDING OR FROM THE ELEMENTS [00:45:01] ON THERE, IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S PART OF THE UPDATES TO THE DESIGN GUIDELINES. UM, BUT I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION, UM, AS WELL AS YOU HAD MENTIONED ABOUT THE ART, UH, BEING VERY SUBJECTIVE AND KIND OF UNDERSTANDING. AND I, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S GONNA BE BASED, THAT'S GONNA BE PART OF OUR RECOMMENDATIONS WHEN WE DO WRITE THEM ON THE, THE NEW GUIDELINES, IF WE WERE GONNA BE ABLE, IF WE WERE GONNA EMPHASIZE OUR INTERPRETATION OF, OF WHAT ART COULD BE, UM, OR THE POSSIBILITIES THERE VERSUS SOMETHING LIKE YOU'RE SAYING SOMEBODY'S PUTTING UP WALLPAPER VERSUS, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN, UM, CREATED ESPECIALLY SPECIFICALLY FOR THAT SITE. UM, YEAH, I DON'T KNOW. SINCE IT'S SO SUBJECTIVE, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT, HOW WE COULD HANDLE THAT IN A GUIDELINE CHAIR. UM, CHAIR, IF I MAY. YES. UH, JUST HEARING THIS PART OF THE CONVERSATION WITH VICE CHAIR MINOR'S COMMENTS, I, I'M JUST THINKING OF OPPORTUNITIES THAT INCLUDE PROVIDING A DEFINITION, UM, OF PUBLIC ART IN THE GUIDELINES. THERE'S, THERE'S A, I KNOW THIS CAME UP IN THE WORKING GROUP, THE IDEA OF A GLOSSARY, POTENTIALLY A DEFINITION OF ACTIVATION. UM, A COUPLE OTHER THINGS THAT CAN BE CLARIFYING AND WITHOUT LOOKING ANYTHING UP, THERE IS A GENERAL DEFINITION OUT THERE ABOUT PUBLIC ART THAT I THINK SPEAKS TO VICE CHAIR MINOR'S COMMENTS MM-HMM . IN WHICH PUBLIC ART IS DEFINED AS AN ORIGINAL, UH, ONSITE, UH, PIECE OF WORK THAT IS COMMISSIONED BY AN ARTIST. AND SO THAT, UH, THAT I THINK HELPS BRING, TO BRING, I THINK A LOT OF THE COMMENTS THAT I'VE HEARD ON THIS COMMISSION AND, AND RIGHT NOW, UM, TO NARROW IT IN THAT THERE IS A WAY TO PROVIDE MORE GUIDANCE, I THINK, UM, AND EVEN HEARING THE COMMENT THAT IT NEEDS TO BE ON THE EXTERIOR OF THE BUILDING, THAT, NOT SAYING THAT THAT SPECIFICALLY SHOULD BE ADDED, BUT JUST CONSIDERING, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THESE PROJECTS AND YOU'RE SEEING THEM BUILT AND YOU'RE SAYING WHAT'S NOT QUITE RIGHT ABOUT IT, THERE MIGHT BE OPPORTUNITY THERE TO EXPLORE WITH, WITH THE UPDATE TO THE NEW URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES. YEAH. YEAH. AND IS THERE, THERE'S OPPORTUNITIES IN THE UPDATES TO PROVIDE AN AL ALTERNATIVE OR SOMETHING THAT'S BEYOND WHAT'S BEING ASKED FOR? THIS IS A QUESTION, I'M NOT SURE, YOU KNOW, LIKE, LIKE WE'RE, WE'RE DOING THIS, WE'RE, YOU KNOW, LIKE AN ALTERNATE EQUIVALENT COMPLIANCE OF SOMETHING. IS THERE ANY OPPORTUNITY FOR THAT WHERE IT'S KIND OF OPEN FOR WE, THE, THE GUIDE, THE DRAFT GUIDELINES DON'T PRESCRIBE ANY SPECIFIC REQUIRED STRATEGIES? YEAH. SO THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO ALTERNATIVE COMPLIANCE. GOTCHA. BECAUSE WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO STAY VERY OPEN OUTCOME BASED. YEAH. WELL, ARE THERE ANY MORE QUESTIONS ON 4 0 5 COLORADO? UM, THE ONLY OTHER THING IS, UH, SORRY, YOUR VICE CHAIRMAN, I DIDN'T RAISE MY HAND. DO WE RECOGNIZE, UM, THE ONLY OTHER THING IS I KNOW THAT THERE WAS A, AN AMENITY LEVEL. UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WAS IN THE ORIGINAL PROPOSAL. I WAS FLIPPING THROUGH AND I DIDN'T, I DIDN'T SEE IT. UM, BUT I DO THINK THAT THERE'S A CONVERSATION ABOUT, UH, PROVIDING MORE ACCESS TO SOME OF THOSE AMENITIES THAT ARE BEYOND STREET LEVEL. UM, I THINK IN THIS CASE, UM, YOU KNOW, LIKE WE, WE'VE SEEN, UM, THE MARKET SHIFT AWAY FROM OFFICE, UM, AND EVEN KIND OF RESIDENTIAL TO AN EXTENT, AND THE SHIFTING MORE TOWARDS RETAIL. I THINK OUR RETAIL RATES ACROSS THE CITY OR METRO ARE AROUND 97%. UM, SO, UM, YOU KNOW, I JUST THINK ENCOURAGING, UM, MORE OF THOSE KIND OF PUBLIC AMENITY, OR SORRY, PRIVATE AMENITY SPACES, UM, TO, TO BECOME PUBLIC OR QUASI-PUBLIC, UM, I THINK, UH, WOULD BE HELPFUL FEEDBACK, UH, FOR APPLICANTS AS WELL. I DON'T KNOW THAT IT NEEDS TO BE IN A GUIDELINE, BUT I THINK IT'S NICE FOR US TO KIND OF LEVEL SET ON SOME OF THE TYPES OF FEEDBACK THAT WE COULD OFFER, UH, TO AN APPLICANT. COMMISSIONER GILLI, THANK YOU CHAIR, UH, JUST FOR THIS PROJECT, AND I IMAGINE IT MIGHT BLEED OVER TO THE NEXT, I JUST WANT TO REVISIT THE DESIGN GUIDELINE ON, UM, PUBLIC SPACE ACTIVATION IS, IN PARTICULAR THE GROUND FLOOR RETAIL. UH, WE, WE DID NOTE THAT THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT DID NOT COMPLY IN THAT REGARD. AND I DO WONDER IN THE SPIRIT OF, UM, MAKING SUGGESTIONS FOR THE REWRITE ON HOW WE CAN, UM, PROVIDE EXAMPLES PERHAPS, AND I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING WE ALREADY HAVE PLANNED, BUT DRAWING, [00:50:01] DRAWING EXAMPLES, UH, FOR PROVIDING SMALLER SCALE RETAIL SPACES WITHIN THESE, YOU KNOW, LARGE FLOOR PLATES AND FOOTPRINTS COULD BE A POSITIVE CONTRIBUTION TO THE REWRITE. IT SEEMS AS THOUGH, UM, MORE OFTEN THAN, MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, WE'RE SEEING VERY LARGE RETAIL SPACES PROVIDED, UM, NAVIGATING AROUND, UM, UTILITY CORES, FIRE ACCESS, FIRE LANES. UH, BUT IN REALITY, THOSE SPACES TEND TO BE DIFFICULT TO LEASE, ESPECIALLY IN THE, IN, IF YOUR STREET FRONTAGE ISN'T RIGHT IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA. AND SO THEY LAID DORMANT FOR QUITE A WHILE. IF WE COULD PROVIDE DRAWN EXAMPLES TO CREATE, PERHAPS ARCADE CONDITIONS WITHIN THOSE GROUND FLOOR AREAS THAT, UH, ENCOURAGE SMALLER SCALE RETAILERS TO OCCUPY THOSE SPACES, PROVIDING EXAMPLES FOR SUBDIVIDING THOSE RETAIL SPACES IF THEY CANNOT HAVE A LARGE RETAILER MOVE INTO, INTO THE UNIT. UM, THAT WAY, YOU KNOW, WE ARE SHARING OUR, UH, DESIGN EXPERTISE POTENTIALLY WITH THESE DEVELOPERS, UM, AND ALSO CREATING A VISION THAT MAY SEE THEIR WAY THROUGH TO PROVIDING SOMETHING UNIQUE THAT THEY MAY NOT ALREADY HAVE CONSIDERED. UM, IT IS A CHALLENGE, I, I ACKNOWLEDGE TO, UH, CHECK OFF ALL OF THE CITY OF AUSTIN REQUIREMENTS FOR PROVIDING POWER AND TRASH UTILITY SERVICES, AS WELL AS THOSE FIRE REQUIREMENTS AND GARAGE ACCESS. UM, IT USUALLY TENDS TO BE A PUZZLE WE SEE COME BACK THROUGH TIME AND TIME AGAIN. AND SO PUTTING, PUTTING IN SOME EFFORT, UM, UM, I'M PERHAPS VOLUNTEERING HERE, UH, TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE WORKING GROUP TO PROVIDE EXAMPLES OF WAYS TO SUBDIVIDE THAT GROUND FLOOR PLANE TO ENCOURAGE SMALLER SCALE UNITS TO OCCUPY THAT GROUND PLANE AND, UH, FURTHER ACTIVATE THE STREET SCAPE, I THINK WOULD BE A HELPFUL CONTRIBUTION. IS THAT SOMETHING WE ALREADY HAVE PLANNED? IS THAT GOING TO BE IN THE REWRITE? I THINK THAT'S FOR, UH, COMMISSIONER WHIR. CAN YOU RESTATE THAT AGAIN? IT SEEMS AS THOUGH THERE'S A, UH, INTENTION TO PROVIDE GRAPHIC EXAMPLES IN THE REWRITE, UM, EXAMPLES OF, OF BEST PRACTICE HAVE WE, UM, ALREADY CONSIDERED INCLUDING FLOOR PLAN, UM, FLOOR PLAN, UH, DIVISIONS FOR MULTIPLE SCENARIOS OF THE GROUND PLANE, UM, NAVIGATING THESE ELEMENTS THAT ARE ESSENTIAL FROM CITY OF AUSTIN, TRASH, POWER, FIRE. IS THAT SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA BE IN THE, THE REWRITE? IT IS NOT. UM, I THINK WE'VE HAD A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT TO WHAT EXTENT, IF ANY, TO SHOW IMAGES IN THESE GUIDELINES. UM, ON THE ONE HAND, IMAGES CAN BE REALLY HELPFUL. ON THE OTHER HAND, THE IMAGES CAN DATE THE DOCUMENT VERY QUICKLY. UM, NOW YOU'RE ASKING ABOUT DIAGRAMS. UM, I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH WE'VE EXPLICITLY TALKED ABOUT THE DIAGRAMS. I THINK THE, THE LOW, THE, THE LIFT FOR THAT WOULD BE FAIRLY MONUMENTAL. UM, AND I THINK THE, THE CHALLENGE WE RUN INTO IS THAT THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT SITE CIRCUMSTANCES AND POTENTIAL LAYOUTS THAT WE RISK GETTING INTO, LIKE A LEVEL OF PRESCRIPTIVENESS THAT'S GONNA LOOK LIKE CODE. UM, AND THAT'S WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO STAY, WE'RE TRYING TO TOW THAT LINE. UM, SO SHORT ANSWER, WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING LIKE THAT IN THE DRAFT. UM, LONG ANSWER, IT'S WORTH, WORTH HAVING THE CONVERSATION. ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO THE NEXT, UM, PROJECT COMMISSIONER MARCUS? RIGHT. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND. WHAT WOULD BE THE TAKEAWAY FROM THIS ANALYSIS OF 4 0 5 COLORADO? WE ARE JUST, IT'S, WE'RE JUST HAVING A DISCUSSION. SO THERE'S, WE ARE NOT DOING ANY, THERE'S NO ACTION EXCEPT HOW WE COULD DISCUSS HOW WE ARE WANTING TO USE THESE EXAMPLES TO CREATE BETTER URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES ON THIS PART, ON THIS REWRITE THAT WE'RE DOING, HOW WE CAN COMMUNICATE THAT MORE EFFECTIVELY. GOT IT. SOUNDS GOOD. VICE CHAIR. SO THAT WAS, YEAH, SORRY, I JUST HAVE A QUESTION. SO THAT WAS KIND OF MY THOUGHT AS WELL AS WE HAVE SEEN SOME, SOME SHORTFALLS FROM WHAT WAS EXPECTED. UM, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE COULD GO BACK AND, AND ASK THE APPLICANT TO, TO REMEDY THAT? OR IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE JUST STRICTLY LOOKING AT IT FROM LOOKING [00:55:01] AT, COMING WITH SOME FORWARD LOOKING DESIGN DOCUMENTS? WE ARE JUST LOOKING AT IT AS AN EXAMPLE SO THAT WE CAN BE BETTER MOVING FORWARD. UM, SO WE'RE NOT ADDRESSING ANYTHING. UH, THESE PROJECTS ARE ALREADY BUILT AND, UM, BUT THIS CAME THROUGH THE DESIGN COMMISSION IN 2017, AND SO WE ARE LOOKING AT THE NOTES THAT WERE, AND THE RECOMMENDATION THAT WAS MADE AND THEN, UM, COMPARING IT TO WHAT'S EXISTING OUT THERE RIGHT NOW, UH, FOR THIS PROJECT. SO THE GOAL IS TO JUST TAKE THIS INFORMATION AND UTILIZE IT SO THAT WE COULD, UH, INFORM ANY MODIFICATIONS TO THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES REWRITE, UH, MOVING FORWARD. THANK YOU. VICE CHAIR. YEAH, I WAS GONNA ADD TO THAT TOO. I THINK FOR ME, HAVING THE TENURE THAT I DO ON THE COMMISSION, I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS THAT I WOULD'VE LIKED TO HAVE KNOWN AS A NEW COMMISSIONER. AND, UM, ONE OF THOSE IS OBVIOUSLY THAT, UM, WE'RE MAKING A RECOMMENDATION, RIGHT? SO IT'S NOT, UM, A CODE COMPLIANCE. UM, IT'S JUST, UH, YOU KNOW, WE'RE COMPARING WHAT THEY PROPOSE OR SUBMIT, UM, WITH THE DESIGN GUIDELINES. AND SO I THINK, UM, ONE THING THAT'S REALLY HELPFUL IS TO, CAN YOU HEAR ME? IS MY MIC WORKING? OKAY. UM, ONE THING IS, UH, WITH THE, UM, THE SUBMISSIONS THAT WE'RE GETTING, UH, AGAIN, I THINK IT'S REALLY HELPFUL FOR US TO REFERENCE THE GUIDELINES WHENEVER POSSIBLE. UM, THERE'S STILL A LOT OF SUBJECTIVITY IN THE EXISTING GUIDELINES. OBVIOUSLY THIS CONVERSATION HELPS TO INFORM, UH, WHAT WORK IS BEING DONE WITH THE REWRITE OF THE GUIDELINES. UM, BUT ON TOP OF THAT, I MEAN, WE AS A BODY DO HAVE, UH, A PLATFORM WHERE WE GET TO MEET WITH THESE APPLICANTS DIRECTLY AND TALK ABOUT, UM, HOW THEY COULD IMPROVE THEIR PROJECTS. SO I THINK INITIALLY WHEN I WAS A MEMBER OF THE COMMISSION, I THOUGHT THAT I WAS CONSTRAINED TO SPEAK ONLY TO THE SPECIFIC GUIDELINE. I MEAN, WE CAN REALLY OFFER ANY FEEDBACK, UM, THAT WOULD MAKE THIS, UH, A BETTER PROJECT, UM, NOT ONLY, YOU KNOW, FOR, UM, THE, THE APPLICANT, BUT ALSO FOR THE, THE PUBLIC. UM, SO I, I THINK, UM, WITH THAT INFORMATION, UH, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY THAT HELPS SOME OF THE NEWER COMMISSIONERS, UM, TO UNDERSTAND, UM, WHY WE'RE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION. IT'S NOT ONLY, UM, FOR, UH, YOU KNOW, THE, THE GUIDELINES THEMSELVES, BUT ALSO, UM, TO HELP INFORM, UM, HOW WE OFFER FEEDBACK. COMMISSIONER WITT, THANK YOU, CHAIR. I'M PROBABLY GONNA SAY SOMETHING DUMB HERE, BUT I, THE QUESTION WAS ASKED EARLIER, UH, ABOUT HOW WE COULD MORE APPROPRIATELY DRAW ADDRESS PARKING PLANTS AND, UH, IT, THAT QUESTION WAS MET BY SILENCE AS WE ALL TRIED TO THINK OF ANSWERS FOR THAT. UM, IT IS NOT IN OUR PURVIEW AT ALL, BUT IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, HERE'S WHERE I'M GONNA SAY SOMETHING STUPID. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT IN THE MEASURING GROSS FLOOR AREA, AS THE CITY DEFINES, FAR PARKING IS EXCLUDED FROM THAT CALCULATION. WE'RE PARKING NOT EXCLUDED FROM THAT CALCULATION. THAT WOULD BE AN INCENTIVE, UM, OF THE STICK VARIETY, NOT CARROT TO PLACE THAT PARKING UNDERGROUND OR TO REDUCE THAT PARKING. SO IT IS NOT WITHIN OUR PURVIEW TO SPEAK TO THE, SPEAK TO THE CODE OR MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT, UM, DON'T ALIGN WITH CODE. BUT I DO THINK IT IS OUR PURVIEW, UM, TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO COUNSEL, UM, ON BEHALF OF THIS BODY THAT THEY CONSIDER, UM, FUTURE, UH, LAND FUTURE ZONING AMENDMENTS OR, UM, CONSIDERATIONS LIKE THAT THAT MIGHT BE IN THE SERVICE OF BETTER MEETING THE, THE KIND OF STREET LIFE SECOND STORY AND SOME OF THE, THE REDUCTIONS IN, IN PARKING POINTS THAT, THAT KEEP COMING UP IN OUR CONVERSATION. SO WHILE WE DON'T HAVE THE MECHANISM TO MAKE AN APPLICANT DO THAT, I DO BELIEVE WE, WE COULD MAKE THAT RECOMMENDATION TO COUNSEL, UM, IF, IF WE WERE INTERESTED IN, IN, IN DOING SO, OR DOING SO AS PART OF A LARGER PACKAGE OF SOME OF THESE THINGS THAT KEEP COMING UP CHAIR. UM, YES, TO THAT POINT, THE, THE ULI, UH, TAP, THE TECHNICAL ADVISORY PANEL, WHICH I BELIEVE COMMISSIONER CARROLL WAS A PART OF, UM, THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT IS THE BODY THAT MADE A RECOMMENDATION TO COUNSEL TO, UH, ABOUT PARKING. A LOT ABOUT PARKING, SOME OF WHICH COUNSEL TOOK ACTION ON SOME OF WHICH COUNSEL HASN'T, BUT THAT IS ACTUALLY A RECOMMENDATION IN THE REPORT, UM, TO INCLUDE PARKING AS PART OF THE OVERALL FAR, SO THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S ALREADY OUT THERE. , CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT PROCESS AT ALL OF LIKE, WHAT HAPPENS, YOU KNOW, THAT CAME OUT AND, UM, WAS THIS A COUN, [01:00:01] WAS IT, WAS IT SOMETHING THAT COUNCILS LIKE APPROVED TO, TO EVALUATE OR, UM, AS URBAN DESIGN STAFF, I DO NOT KNOW, UM, THE DETAILS OF THAT. I DON'T KNOW IF, IF JORGE DOES, BUT, UM, THAT, I MEAN, THAT WAS A COUNCIL INITIATIVE MM-HMM . ACTION. AND I KNOW THAT THE ULI, UM, GROUP THAT GOT TOGETHER TO CREATE THE STUDY THAT ULTIMATELY INFORMED SOME OF COUNCIL'S DECISIONS, AGAIN, THAT THAT WAS ALL COMING FROM, UM, FROM COUNCIL. AND SO THAT, THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, WE WERE ABLE TO INITIATE OR, OR ACT ON THAT THAT WAS ALL COMING FROM, FROM ABOVE . YEAH. YEAH. COMMISSIONER WHI A LAST COMMENT ON THAT CHAIR. THANK YOU. UM, IF AND WHEN WE'RE ABLE TO, TO COMPLETE THE, THE UPDATED URBAN GUIDE, URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES, HAVE THOSE APPROVED, UM, AND CODIFIED, UM, WELL NOT CODIFIED, BUT UM, PUT IN USE TO REPLACE THE EXISTING URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES THAT MIGHT AFFORD US AN OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THE COMMON OBSTACLES WE SEE TO MEETING THOSE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES AND MAKING A SERIES OF RECOMMENDATIONS TO COUNCIL. UM, SOME OF WHICH SOME OF THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS MIGHT HAVE ALREADY BEEN MADE, UM, BUT WE COULD MAKE THEM, UM, UNDER THE, YOU KNOW, THROUGH THE LENS OF THE OBJECTIVES WE'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE WITH THIS GROUP COULD BE AN, A GOOD FOLLOW UP. I'M NOT VOLUNTEERING FOR ANYTHING ELSE AFTER, UNTIL THOSE ARE FINISHED, BUT AFTER THAT, I THINK THAT WOULD BE, UH, A REALLY INTERESTING NEXT STEP FOR, FOR THIS COMMISSION. ALRIGHT. ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS, COMMENTS FOR WE CAN MOVE ON TO THE NEXT PROJECT? UM, LET'S SEE. WHAT IS THE OTHER PROJECT THAT WE HAVE IN OUR BACKUP MATERIAL? UM, FIFTH AND WEST. AND WE, WE ONLY HAVE PHOTOS OF FIFTH AND WEST. RIGHT. AND THE, OH, I SEE THE APPROVAL PACKET. I'M SORRY. UH, YEAH. UH, FIFTH AND WEST. I THINK THAT WE'LL LOOK AT THE PHOTOS THAT WE HAVE. YEAH. CHAIR AS A POINT OF ORDER, DO WE HAVE A, DO WE HAVE A LETTER FROM A, A RECOMMENDATION FROM THE DESIGN COMMISSION ON THIS? OR DO WE, I WAS LOOKING FOR IT. DO WE KNOW WHAT THE, WHAT ACTION, IF ANY, THE DESIGN COMMISSION TOOK ON THIS PROJECT? I WAS LOOKING FOR THAT ACTUALLY. UM, AND I DON'T SEE IT, AM I MISSING IT? THAT WE, DO WE HAVE A COPY OF THE RECOMMENDATION FROM THE DESIGN COMMISSION? I'M DOUBLE CHECKING. I PRETTY SURE I SAW IT IN THE BACKUP, BUT IN THIS APPROVAL PACKET, BUT LET ME, YES, IT'S ON PAGE 44. OKAY. YEAH, THERE WE GO. [01:05:17] SO THIS PROJECT CAME TO THE COMMISSION IN 2014, AND I AM ASSUMING THE X'S ARE YES, IT MET THOSE GUIDELINES. CHAIR, THE LETTER STATES THAT THE PROJECT IS PRESENTED IS NOT IN SUBSTANTIAL COMPLIANCE. ALL RIGHT. HAS HE, HAS EVERYONE HAD A CHANCE TO FAMILIARIZE THEMSELVES WITH IT? I AM GOING THROUGH IT RIGHT NOW. SO PAGE FOUR OF THE PHOTOS, IF WE CAN LOOK AT THAT. WE'VE GOT A COUPLE PHOTOS THERE. I, IF I MAY, AND, UM, APOLOGIES I'M NOT DIGESTED ALL THIS AHEAD OF THE MEETING, BUT, UM, THE PACKAGE DOES INCLUDE A RESPONSE TO DESIGN COMMISSION RECOMMENDATIONS, PRESUMABLY FROM THE APPLICANT, UM, IN WHICH IT SAID THAT THE PROJECT WILL INCLUDE A RETAIL KIOSK ON THE FIFTH STREET, SIDEWALK OPERATED BY A THIRD PARTY. UM, THEY WILL SEEK NECESSARY CITY APPROVALS INCLUDING A LICENSE AGREEMENT PERMIT FOR THE KIOSK. UM, WE'VE ACCOMPANIED BY CAFE STYLE TABLES AND CHAIRS ON THE SIDEWALK. UM, NOW THAT'S CERTAINLY NOT VISIBLE IN ANY OF THE PHOTOS THAT WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US AND IS POTENTIALLY AN EXAMPLE OF THE KIND OF DISCUSSION THAT WE AS A BODY HAVE NO WINDOW INTO THE ENFORCEMENT OF, OF COMMITMENTS MADE TO THIS COMMISSION. UM, PERHAPS THIS IS A GOOD EXAMPLE FOR DISCUSSION. I CAN'T SPEAK TO WHETHER THAT KIOSK IS THERE REGULARLY AT THIS LOCATION, SO I'M NOT MEANING TO CAST DISPERSIONS THERE, BUT IT'S CERTAINLY NOT IN THE PHOTOS WE'VE BEEN PROVIDED. MY CHAIR MINORS. I'M JUST CURIOUS IF ANYONE WAS ABLE TO SEE WHAT THE PROPOSED GROUND FLOOR USE IS COMPARED TO WHAT'S ACTUALLY THERE IN THE PHOTO. I CAN'T REALLY TELL WHAT'S EVEN ON THE GROUND FLOOR. I DID, UH, JUST GOTTA FIND IT. IT'S IN ONE OF THESE DOCUMENTS. UM, AND IT IBEL I BE WELL AND REALLY QUICK WHILE, UM, I HAVE THAT OPEN QUESTION, I THINK ONE CALL OUT THAT I WANTED TO MAKE IS WITH REGARD TO THE KIOSK. I THINK THAT'S A REALLY ASTUTE OBSERVATION. UM, THERE WAS, UH, ANOTHER PROPOSAL THAT CAME BEFORE US, UM, AND THAT BUILDING IS ACTUALLY NEARING COMPLETION. I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN CITE SPECIFICALLY WHICH ONE IT IS, BUT, UM, THEY WERE KIND OF, UH, PROPOSING THE SAME THING WHERE THEY'RE GONNA PUT A KIOSK AND, UH, AFTER, UM, GOING BACK AND FORTH THAT THE APPLICANT, WE WERE ABLE TO GET THEM TO ACTUALLY AGREE TO PUTTING, UH, FIXED, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, UM, COMMERCIAL RETAIL ON THE CORNER. UM, AND THAT SPACE IS NOW, UM, [01:10:01] LEASED, UM, BY A LOCAL BAKER. UM, SO I THINK THAT THE CONCERNS THAT WE HAD WHEN WE SAW THAT PROPOSAL IS THAT THE KIOSK LACKED A CERTAIN LEVEL OF PERMANENCE AND COULD BE REPLACED AT ANY POINT IN TIME. SO I THINK THAT IF WE DO SEE, UH, PROPOSALS LIKE THAT IN THE FUTURE WHERE THERE IS AN ELEMENT THAT JUST DOES NOT HAVE THAT PERMANENCE, I THINK THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE COULD REASONABLY RECOMMEND, UM, TO COMPLY WITH. YOU KNOW, I THINK ACTUALLY MULTIPLE GUIDELINES, I MEAN, IT'S PRETTY RARE THAT WE GET A RESPONSE, UH, SOMEBODY, UH, WRITING US BACK AS A RESPONSE TO THE RECOMMENDATIONS. SO, UM, THAT'S A PUSH IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION OF INFORMING US ON HOW THEY'RE GONNA ADDRESS THESE. UH, COMMISSIONER WI CHAIR IN THE DOCUMENT, UM, IN THE BACKUP OH FOUR FIFTH AND WEST APPROVAL PACKET, WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO PUT UP ON SCREEN PAGE 43? THANK YOU. WELL, HE'S PUTTING THAT ON. UH, GOING BACK TO VICE CHAIR MINOR'S POINT OF THE KIND OF ACTIVATION OF PERMANENT VERSUS, YOU KNOW, TEMPORARY OR POSSIBLY TEMPORARY. UM, I'M SURE IN OUR UPDATES, UH, THERE'S NO DISTINGUISH DIS DISTINCTION BETWEEN THAT. UM, 'CAUSE IT DOES SEEM LIKE THERE ARE SOME AREAS WHERE THE, IT IS A KIOSK STILL, BUT ON THE INSIDE OF A LOBBY THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE ALWAYS TRYING TO GET, UH, WHETHER IT'S LIVE MUSIC STAGE OR UH, COFFEE KIOSK OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, UM, VERSUS EXTERIOR WHERE IT CAN SEE WHERE IT WOULD BE MUCH MORE TEMPORARY. I ASK TO, TO SEE THIS IMAGE. 'CAUSE I THINK THIS UNDERSCORES THE, THE FRUSTRATION THAT COMMISSIONERS FEEL IS THAT WE SEE PROJECTS THAT, YOU KNOW, 60% DESIGN. USUALLY THEY'RE, UM, UNDERSTAND THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALL PROFESSIONALS HERE AND WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE, THEY'RE BALANCING A LOT AND THAT DESIGN'S NOT COMPLETE. UM, BUT IF I'M UNDERSTANDING CORRECTLY, THIS WAS A PRESENTATION SHOWN TO THE DESIGN COMMISSION, UM, THAT SHOWS SEATING AND A KIOSK IN THE RIGHT OF WAY ALONG WITH THE, THE, THE TREES. UM, NOW I'D INVITE MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS TO LOOK AT THIS ON STREET VIEW. UM, I'LL SPOIL THE ENDING FOR IT. YOU'LL FIND NONE OF THAT SEATING, NOT A KIOSK. UM, GOING BACK TO THE ON THE SITE PLAN, UH, WHICH IS PAGE FIVE AT THE 19 IN THE SAME BACKUP SHOWS BIKE RACKS AND, UH, TWO BENCHES. UM, THE BIKE RACKS APPEAR TO BE PRESENT IN STREET VIEW, BUT THE BENCHES AREN'T. SO THE PEDESTRIAN SEATING THAT PEDESTRIAN ACTIVITY THAT ARE, UM, IN EFFECT, IN EFFECT COMMITTED TO BY THE PROJECT TEAM BY SHOWING RENDERINGS LIKE THIS TO THE COMMISSION, DON'T MESH WITH, IN THIS CASE, SOME OF THE OTHER DRAWINGS IN THE PACKAGE, UM, DON'T MESH WITH WHAT IS THERE. AND I THINK TO VICE CHAIR MINOR'S CONCERNS, WE HAVE REALLY NO MECHANISM TO HOLD THEM TO THE FISS THAT THEY'RE SHOWING US HERE. UM, NOW READING THE BACKUP, THIS IS A FLOODPLAIN CONSTRAINTS SITE. THIS IS A CHALLENGING SITE FOR A LOT OF PEDESTRIAN STUFF. UM, SO I WILL LIMIT MY COMMENTS TO CONCERNS ABOUT THE DISCREPANCY BETWEEN WHAT IS APPARENTLY PROPOSED AS THE URBAN ENVIRONMENT AND WHAT IS IN FACT GIVEN AT THE URBAN ENVIRONMENT CHAIR. I CAN JUST CHIME IN HERE AND, AND JUST ADD AS A REMINDER THAT THE PERMISSIBLE LAND USES ARE DICTATED BY ZONING, AND THE COMMISSION HERE IS MAKING A RECOMMENDATION. AND THE OTHER THING I'D LIKE TO POINT OUT IS THAT IT'S ALWAYS BEEN A QUESTION OF AT WHAT POINT IN TIME DOES THE APPLICANT PRESENT TO THE DESIGN COMMISSION? AND IT IS GENERALLY BELIEVED THAT EARLY ON IN THE DESIGN PROCESS IS THE BEST TIME. UM, THE BENEFIT TO THAT IS COMMISSIONER'S RECOMMENDATIONS GET TO BE A PART OF THE DESIGN PROCESS. THE, OF COURSE, THE DIFFICULTY IN THAT IS THAT THERE'S A LOT OF CHANGES THAT THE APPLICANT ENDS UP MAKING FOR A WHOLE VARIETY OF REASONS. YEAH. AND I THINK THAT IS PART OF THE, YOU KNOW, FRUSTRATION IS 'CAUSE WHEN WE'RE, WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE LOOKING AT IT AT A VARIOUS, AT A, AT A POSSIBLY EARLY STAGE, BUT, [01:15:02] YOU KNOW, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IS GONNA MAKE IT TO THE FINAL CUT. AND, AND IF WE SEE SOMETHING THAT WE LIKE AND IT'S IN THERE, WE USUALLY DON'T MAKE ANY KIND OF COMMENT ON IT AS FAR AS A RECOMMENDATION TO, YOU KNOW, KEEP IT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. SO I THINK THAT'S PART OF THE STRUGGLE AND THE FRUSTRATION OF LIKE, WHEN WE, WE SEE THINGS THAT ARE THERE THAT, YOU KNOW, EITHER, YOU KNOW, CAN'T, YOU KNOW, ARE SOMEWHAT MISREPRESENTED AT THE, ONCE WE GET TO THE FINAL. AND SO TRYING TO UNDERSTAND OF HOW CAN WE VOICE THAT IN OUR RECOMMENDATION, NOT KNOWING THAT IT'S, IT'S EITHER NOT ALLOWED OR, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S A ZONING ISSUE THAT COMES UP LATER OR SOME SORT OF COMMENT DURING SITE PLAN OR, OR YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE KIND OF PLAY THAT WHERE WE, WE DO WANT THIS, WE DO ARE ADVOCATING FOR IT. RECOMMENDING IT. SO VICE CHAIR, OH, COMMISSIONER MARCUS, WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO PROVIDE ANY KIND OF ZONING INPUT WHENEVER WE HAVE, UM, SOMEBODY PRESENTING THESE? NO. MM. WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO CIRCLE BACK ON THE ZONING AND RECOMMENDATIONS, LET'S SAY SIX MONTHS DOWN THE LINE? UH, NO. THAT IS, UH, COMPLETELY OUT OF THE PURVIEW OF THIS COMMISSION. GOT IT. VICE CHAIR, I AM CURIOUS. I MEAN, FLOOD ZONES TO MY KNOWLEDGE, HAVEN'T REALLY CHANGED WITH THE EXCEPTION OF, YOU KNOW, WALLER CREEK JUST BECAUSE WE BUILT A TUNNEL. UM, SO I, I FEEL LIKE THE APPLICANT KNEW THEY WERE IN A FLOOD ZONE, AND I THINK IF WE KNEW THAT THEY WERE IN A FLOOD ZONE, UM, THAT WOULD'VE POTENTIALLY SHAPED THE RECOMMENDATION THAT WAS PROVIDED. UM, SO THAT TO ME IS KIND OF INTERESTING THAT IT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW, LIKE IT WAS JUST, HEY, SURPRISE, WE'RE IN A FLOOD ZONE, SO WE CAN'T DO WHAT, YOU KNOW, WE COMMITTED TO. UM, THE OTHER THING TOO IS THAT, UM, I THINK, YOU KNOW, IN GENERAL, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ACTIVATING THE STREET, PEDESTRIAN USES WHATNOT, UM, THERE ISN'T REALLY ANY ELEMENT OF SEASONALITY IN OUR DISCUSSIONS. AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, KIND OF, AGAIN, GOING BACK TO PERMANENT VERSUS NOT PERMANENT, UM, IF THERE'S, IF KNOW ACTIVATION, YOU KNOW, THREE MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR BECAUSE IT'S SO HOT, UM, OR IF THERE'S AN AMENITY THREE MONTHS OUTTA THE YEAR BECAUSE IT'S SO HOT, UM, IS THAT REALLY EVEN COMING CLOSE TO ACCOMPLISHING THE INTENT OF THE GUIDELINES? YOU KNOW? SO I THINK THAT THAT'S SOMETHING FOR US TO CONSIDER. SURE. I THINK A LAST COMMENT FROM ME, UM, THAT IS THE CHALLENGE, RIGHT? IS WE WANT, WE WANT PROJECTS TO COME TO US EARLY ENOUGH FOR US TO HAVE A ROBUST CONVERSATION ABOUT HOW TO APPLY BEST PRACTICES IN URBAN DESIGN. THAT IS WHAT WE ARE HERE TO DO. UM, AND THE PROJECT IS GOING TO EVOLVE AND NOT EVERYTHING'S GONNA GET CAPTURED. AND, YOU KNOW, NINE TIMES OUTTA 10, I COULD LOOK AT A RENDERING LIKE THIS AND SAY, YOU KNOW, LATER ON WHEN THAT KIOSK WAS GONE, OH, THAT, YOU KNOW, DESIGN CHANGED AND THAT HAD TO GO AWAY. IN THIS CASE, IT FEELS THAT I'M HARPING ON THIS BECAUSE THERE IS THIS SPECIFIC RESPONSE FROM THE APPLICANT, UH, BECAUSE THE LETTER FROM THE, THE DESIGN COMMISSION SPECIFICALLY CALLED OUT INFRASTRUCTURAL IMPROVEMENTS SHOULD INCLUDE, BUT NOT BE LIMITED TO PROVISION, PROVISION FOR USES THAT WOULD ACCOMMODATE AND ENCOURAGE IN AN ANIMATED PUBLIC REALM IN WHICH ELEMENTS SUCH AS PEDESTRIAN SCALED LIGHTING IN AREAS IN FRONT OF THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT, ALONG WITH SEATING, TOGETHER WITH SALES KIOSKS BE DESIGNED TO BE COMPATIBLE WITH THE ARCHITECTURAL CHARACTER OF THE PROJECT. IT IS THE SENSE OF THE DESIGN COMMISSION THAT IF THESE CRITERIA ARE MET, THEN SUBSTANTIAL COMPLIANCE WILL BE ACHIEVED. SO THE RESPONSE, UH, OF SHOWING THAT AND THEN THAT NOT BEING, UM, NOT APPEARING TO BE IN THE PROJECT. I, AGAIN, I'M WORKING OFF OF STREET VIEW AND SOME PICTURES, SO I'M UNDERSTAND THAT'S AN INCOMPLETE ASSESSMENT, BUT I THINK THAT SPEAKS TO THE FRUSTRATION OF, IN THIS CASE, THE CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT THE DESIGN COMMISSION WANTED TO SEE WAS VERY, VERY CLEAR TO THE APPLICANT. UH, I DO WANT TO, I, I WILL CLOSE MY COMMENTS BY, UM, REFERRING MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS TO PAGE 50 IN THIS REQUEST, WHICH SHOWS, AND THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I'VE EVER SEEN ONE OF THESE, UH, A STAFF REVIEW OF SUBSTANTIAL COMPLIANCE WITH THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES. UM, AND IN THE STAFF REVIEW, THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES GET A, A SIMPLE YES OR NO, UM, ADDING UP THE NUMBER OF GUIDELINES IN EACH CATEGORY, SEVEN IN THE FIRST 11, 7 2. SO THERE IS IN FACT, KIND OF A, A NUMERIC CATEGOR CATALOGING OF THIS. UM, THIS FEELS LIKE AN OPPORTUNITY TO, TO REPEAT MYSELF THAT, UH, THE, THE DRAFT OR THE DESIGN GUIDES WE ARE WORKING ON SEEK TO MAKE THIS PART EASIER FOR STAFF BY HAVING THE TIER [01:20:01] ONE AND TIER TWO. UM, I THINK THE SCORING, UH, THAT COMMISSIONER ME HAS SUGGESTED COULD BE, UH, A VALUABLE TOOL IN GETTING CLARITY, BUT RIGHT NOW IT'S A VERY BINARY, UM, UP DOWN WHERE STAFF GETS FEEDBACK FROM, FROM THIS, UH, COMMISSION, BUT ULTIMATELY, UH, ARE THE ONES MAKING THE DETERMINATION. UM, I THINK THIS COMMISSION HAS THIS, THE ABILITY TO, UM, USE THE TIER ONE AND TWO, TIER TWO STRUCTURE TO REALLY COMMUNICATE BETTER TO STAFF AND APPLICANTS WHAT OUR KEY FOCUSES ARE. SO, UM, I'M, I'M HOPING THAT WILL BE SEEN AS A, AS A WELCOME CHANGE, AND I'M EXCITED ABOUT THAT ELEMENT OF THE DRAFT. AND I'LL SHUT UP NOW. COMMISSIONER GILLES, THANK YOU CHAIR. UM, I AGREE WITH, AND WANNA CONFIRM AND REITERATE EVERYTHING THAT THE FELLOW CHAIR, UH, COMMISSIONERS HAVE MENTIONED IN REGARDS TO, UM, STREET LEVEL ACTIVATION. I THINK THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT FOR ME, FIFTH AND WEST, UM, SPEAKS TO THE ARCHITECTURAL, UH, INTENT AND MATERIALITY MORE SO THAN WHAT'S LACKING FROM THE PEDESTRIAN ACTIVATION SCALE. AND IT MAKES ME CURIOUS ABOUT HOW WE ADDRESS, UM, MATERIAL QUALITY IN THE UPCOMING REWRITE. UH, I THINK, UM, SOME OF THE CITY URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES WERE MENTIONED THAT WE'VE USED AS REFERENCE MELBOURNE WAS ONE, I THINK THE ME, MELBOURNE CITY OF MELBOURNE, MELBOURNE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES, UM, TAKE TAKES THE TIME TO MENTION, UM, ADOPTION OF HIGH QUALITY, VISUAL RICH DETAIL AT LOWER LEVELS, WHICH THIS PROJECT, YOU COULD ARGUE DOES HAVE. HOWEVER, I THINK THE SCALE OF THOSE MATERIALS, I WOULDN'T SAY ARE SPECIFICALLY HUMAN. AND I THINK IT, IT REALLY IS ABOUT THE EXTENTS, THE LINEAR EXTENT OF ONE PARTICULAR MATERIAL. AND, AND ON THIS GROUND FLOOR, IT'S HARD TO MAKE OUT. I THINK IT'S SORT OF, SORT OF HAMMERED CONCRETE. UM, THERE'S JUST A HUGE EXPANSE OF THE SAME SURFACE WITH NOT MUCH ARTICULATION. AND SO AS WE, YOU KNOW, MAKE EFFORTS TO, UM, IMPROVE HOW WE, UM, DESCRIBE THE DESIRE FOR ACTIVATION AND HOW WE DESCRIBE, UM, RECOMMENDATIONS, I WONDER IF WE COULD INCLUDE, UM, DESCRIPTIONS THAT CALL FOR, UH, BREAKS WITHIN THAT STREET SCAPE FACADE. UM, AND, AND PERHAPS EVEN MENTIONING WALKING DISTANCE RELATIVE TO LINEAR FEET. YOU KNOW, AS YOU TRAVERSE THE BASE OF THIS, YOUR MATERIAL, UM, TREATMENT SHOULD TRANSITION AT LEAST, YOU KNOW, ONCE, TWICE, THREE TIMES, FOUR TIMES. WE COULD CALL OUT A CADENCE. UM, FOR, FOR, UM, CHANGE. UH, I THINK IN GENERAL, OUR GOAL IS TO CREATE A CHARACTER OR, OR DEFINE THE URBAN GUIDELINES FOR CITY OF AUSTIN. GOAL IS TO CREATE A CHARACTER FOR DOWNTOWN AUSTIN, A CHARACTER THAT IS HUMAN SCALED, ACTIVATED, BUT ALSO RICH IN DIVERSITY AND QUALITY. UH, AND, AND WHILE THIS IS ARCHITECTURALLY, I THINK BEAUTIFULLY AND BEAUTIFUL AND INTERESTING, UM, THE, THE HUMAN SCALE IS LACKING IN THE APPLICATION OF THESE MATERIALS. YES. COMMISSIONER WIER, UM, COMMISSIONER GILLES, THANK YOU FOR THAT. UM, I, I, THE, THE CURRENT DRAFT, SO I THINK THE, THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT PEDESTRIAN SCALED MATERIALS IS THE OLD WAY OF TALKING ABOUT THIS. UH, I WILL SAY THAT THE DESIGN GUIDELINE IN THE DRAFT CURRENTLY IS DESIGN BUILDINGS FOR THE HUMAN SCALE. UM, I'M NOT SAYING IT CAN'T, UH, BE FINE TUNED, UH, BUT I THINK WE ARE, WE ARE STARTING TO MAKE THAT PIVOT TOWARD THE, THE DISCUSSION OF THE HUMAN SCALE FOR EXACTLY THE REASON YOU LAID OUT. I THINK THAT'S BEAUTIFULLY ARTICULATED. COMMISSIONER MEKI, IS IT POSSIBLE TO PULL UP, UH, PAGE 52? YES. UM, THIS IS PROBABLY JUST, UM, BUILDING ON, ON WHAT WE DISCUSSED PREVIOUSLY IS, IS BASICALLY HOW CAN WE INCORPORATE THE LEARNINGS FROM THIS DESIGN AND WHAT WE CAN, HOW WE CAN INFORM OUR FUTURE URBAN DESIGN? SO ON PAGE 52, THERE IS A FAIR NUMBER OF POINTS THAT ARE, UH, INDICATED AS A NO, AND THEY HAVE TO DO WITH, UM, THE GREENERY AND THE PLANTS AND THE OPEN SPACES AROUND THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT. AND I'M WONDERING WHETHER, UM, THERE WAS A SHIFT SOMEHOW IN, IN THE EMPHASIS OF REALLY REQUIRING THIS, UH, VERSUS SUGGESTING IT, WHETHER IT'S TIER ONE OR TIER TWO. BUT IF WE LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, JUST WE DISCUSSED THE PROJECT, THE 4 0 5 COLORADO, THERE'S 13 STORIES OF PARKING THAT WOULD'VE BENEFITED IF IT HAD [01:25:01] GREEN WALLS, RIGHT? IT WOULD'VE BEAUTIFIED IT BETTER. UM, THIS PROJECT WOULD PROBABLY BENEFIT FROM HAVING GREEN ROOFS. IT'S PZ FIVE AND THEY TALKED ABOUT GREEN SPACES, ET CETERA, ET CETERA. SO I'M WONDERING IF THERE IS A WAY FOR US TO SORT OF INFLUENCE GOING FORWARD AND PUT THE GREENERY AS TIER ONE REQUIREMENT IN OUR RECOMMENDATIONS VERSUS TIER TWO, LIKE PZ 12 USE PLANTS TO, IN, TO, IN LIVE IN, UM, URBAN SPACES AND ARTS AND FOUNTAINS AND ALL THAT. IT, IT SOUNDS FASCINATING, BUT, UM, I'M NOT SURE IF, UM MM-HMM . HOW FORCEFUL WE SHOULD BE IN REQUIRING THESE ELEMENTS. WE CAN ONLY MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS THOUGH, RIGHT? UM, AND SO I THINK THAT'S KINDA WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT. HOW CAN WE EMPHASIZE THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS AS BEST AS POSSIBLE? IT'S PROBABLY THE TIER ONE AND TIER TWO STRUCTURE, RIGHT? YEAH. THAT YOU HAVE DISCUSSED PREVIOUSLY. YEAH. AND THE, THE WORKING GROUP HAS MADE THEIR INITIAL RECOMMENDATIONS FOR WHAT TIER ONE AND TIER TWO WILL BE, THOSE ARE GETTING STAFF REVIEW. THOSE WILL BE SUBJECT TO PUBLIC INPUT. BUT, UH, WE ALSO WELCOME THE FEEDBACK FROM THESE COMM FROM ALL COMMISSIONERS AS MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC, BECAUSE I THINK THEY'RE, THAT'S, THAT WAS A LOT OF OUR DISCUSSION IS HOW, HOW WHAT BECOMES A TIER ONE AND, AND TIER TWO FOR US. RIGHT. A ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM? COMMISSIONER GALLES, ARE YOU ABOUT TO YEAH, I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION, PLEASE. UH, ALRIGHT, GO AHEAD, COMMISSIONER. UH, THIS IS, UH, NOT RELATED TO THIS PARTICULAR BUILDING OR PROGRAM PROJECT, BUT, UH, THE DESIGN GUIDELINES, SO THEY'RE, THEY, THEY, THEY'RE APPLICABLE TO, UH, ONLY DOWNTOWN OR THEY'RE APPLICABLE TO ANY OF THE BUILDINGS IN THE CITY OF AUSTIN CURRENTLY. THESE ARE APPLICABLE TO ONLY DOWN THE DOWNTOWN, UH, AREA. UM, THE DENSITY BONUS, THE BUILDINGS THAT ARE GOING FOR THE DENSITY BONUS OR, UM, ALSO, UH, CITY BUILDINGS THAT COME TO THE COMMISSION. UM, CHAIR, CAN I, CAN I ADD TO THAT? YES, PLEASE. UM, THE, THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES ARE A APPLICABLE TO ANY PROJECT, HOWEVER, WHERE THEY COME IN, IN THE WORKFLOW OF THE DESIGN COMMISSION PER GUIDING CODE AND RESOLUTIONS IS THAT PROJECTS PARTICIPATING IN THE DOWNTOWN DENSITY BONUS MUST PRESENT PER CODE LANGUAGE TO THE DESIGN COMMISSION. AND CITY OF AUSTIN PROJECTS PER TWO DIFFERENT RESOLUTIONS, UH, SHALL COME TO THE DESIGN COMMISSION AND, AND PRESENT THE PROJECTS TO DESIGN COMMISSION. THAT DESIGN COMMISSION THEN WEIGHS IN ON, BASED ON THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES. AND ALSO, UM, THE, THE GREEN STANDARD, WHICH IS THE, UH, AUSTIN ENERGY, UH, GREEN BUILDING. I ALWAYS SAY IT WRONG, , UM, GREEN BUILDING STANDARDS. YEAH. THANK YOU. GOT IT. , ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? ALL RIGHT. WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON [4. Discussion and action to select Downtown Density Bonus Program projects from the past ten years to conduct analysis on the Design Commission's recommendation and the final approved project. Sponsors: Chair Salinas and Vice Chair Meiners.] TO OUR NEXT, UM, ITEM, WHICH IS A DISCUSSION AND ACTION ITEM AND DISCUSSION AND ACTION ITEM TO SELECT, UM, DOWNTOWN DENSITY BONUS PROGRAM PROJECTS FROM THE PAST 10 YEARS TO CONDUCT AN ANALYSIS ON THE DESIGN COMMISSION'S RECOMMENDATIONS AND THE FINAL APPROVED PROJECT. UM, AND SO THIS IS PRETTY MUCH TO CONTINUE THIS CONVERSATION WITH ANY OTHER BUILDINGS THAT WE, UM, ARE INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT IN OUR NEXT MEETING. UM, THERE'S A LIST OF BUILDINGS. I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE'S HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO, WE CAN DO IT RANDOMLY AND JUST PICK SOME VICE CHAIR. YEAH, I'D LIKE TO LOOK AT, UH, THE MARRIOTT AT CESAR CHAVEZ. ALL RIGHT. DO WE NEED TO DO THE SECOND ON THESE? I GUESS SO. UM, PART OF ME IS THAT THE PROJECT NAME? THAT'S HOW IT'S LISTED HERE. OKAY. JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE. AND YES, THIS IS POSTED FOR DISCUSSION AND ACTION, OR THIS IS FOR THE NEXT. ALRIGHT. OKAY. GOTCHA. ALL RIGHT. IS THERE A SECOND ON THAT? ALL RIGHT, WE'VE GOT A SECOND. UM, [01:30:03] ALL IN FAVOR OF TALKING ABOUT THE MARRIOTT ON, WHAT IS IT? CESAR CHAVEZ ON CESAR CHAVEZ. MM-HMM . SAY, RAISE YOUR HAND. RAISE ANY OPPOSED? NOPE. ALL RIGHT. WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT THE MARRIOTT AND IS THERE ANOTHER ONE? UH, COMMISSIONER GALLES. I'D LIKE TO DISCUSS, UH, THE 17TH AND GUADALUPE APARTMENTS PROJECT. ALL RIGHT. 17TH AND GUINE GUADALUPE. ALL RIGHT. GUADALUPE . UM, IS THERE A SECOND ON THAT? I'LL SECOND. ALL RIGHT. ALL IN FAVOR OF THE 17TH AND GUADALUPE APARTMENTS. ALL RIGHT, IT'S UNANIMOUS. ALL RIGHT. THOSE ARE OUR TWO PROJECTS WE'LL KIND LOOK AT NEXT MONTH. UM, OUR NEXT [5. Select a representative for the South Central Waterfront Advisory Board per City Code ยง2-1-172.] ITEM IS TO SELECT A REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE SOUTH CENTRAL WATERFRONT ADVISORY BOARD. UM, WE'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR A MEMBER OF THIS, AND I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY CAN GIVE AN OVERVIEW OF WHAT IS ENTAILED WITH THIS, UH, COMMISSION SEAT. UM, CHAIR COMMISSIONER LADNER WAS THE REPRESENTATIVE FOR THIS BOARD. UM, SO I WOULD LOOK TO HIM TO PROVIDE YEAH, AN OVERVIEW OF IT, BUT HE'S NOT HERE TODAY, SO, ALL RIGHT. I MEAN, WE, WE WILL VOTE ON IT AGAIN, UH, IN OUR NEXT MEETING UNTIL IT GETS FULL OR WE'LL DISCUSS IT AT LEAST. UM, YOU COULD ALWAYS GO ONLINE AND TAKE A LOOK. UH, THE SOUTH CENTRAL WATERFRONT ADVISORY BOARD, AND SO THERE'S THREE JOINT BOARD COMMISSION SEATS. UH, THERE'S A JOINT SUSTAINABILITY COMMISSION, WHICH I ALSO AM ON. UH, AND THERE'S A DOWNTOWN, UH, COMMISSION, WHICH COMMISSIONER GALLES IS ON. AND THEN, SO, AND WE HAVE THIS AS OUR SOUTH CENTRAL WATERFRONT ADVISORY BOARD, WHICH IS VACANT. SO, UM, I WISH I COULD GIVE YOU AN OVERVIEW OF WHAT THEY DO, BUT I CAN'T. UM, I'M, I DON'T HAVE ANY INFORMATION. COMMISSIONER WI CHAIR QUESTION. UH, IT CAME UP AT LAST MEETING THAT THERE IS, THERE WAS A, A COUNCIL RESOLUTION OR, UM, AT LEAST A RECOMMENDATION OF SOME SORT TO, UM, REDUCE THE NUMBER OF BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS, AND ONE OF THOSE WAS TO MERGE THE, UM, SOUTH CENTRAL WATERFRONT ADVISORY COMMISSION INTO THE DOWNTOWN COMMISSION. UM, DO WE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT, HAS THAT CONVERSATION DEVELOPED AT ALL? I'M, I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY ACTION BEING TAKEN ON THAT. YEAH, I THINK THAT'S STILL ONGOING, SO NOTHING IS OFFICIAL YET, SO THE BOARD IS STILL ON ITS OWN. ALRIGHT. SO FOR OUR NEW COMMISSIONERS, IF IT'S SOMETHING YOU MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN, I APOLOGIZE FOR NOT HAVING MORE INFORMATION FOR YOU, BUT, UH, YOU CAN FIND IT ONLINE AND HOPEFULLY NEXT MONTH, COMMISSIONER LADNER WILL BE HERE AND HE COULD, UH, GIVE Y'ALL AN UPDATE ON WHAT THAT, UM, ADVISORY BOARD DOES. SO UNLESS YOU JUST WANNA JOIN WITHOUT KNOWING. UM, ALL RIGHT. SO WE'LL, WE'LL PUSH THAT TO THE NEXT MEETING. ALL, ANYBODY HAVE ANY ITEMS FOR [FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS] OUR NEXT, ANY FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS THAT WE NEED TO, UH, GET SECONDED AND PUT ON FOR OUR NEXT MEETING? IS THERE ANYTHING THAT'S INTERESTING RELATING TO, UH, OUR DESIGN COMMISSION? NOTHING. ALL RIGHT. WELL, I DO WANNA WELCOME OUR NEW COMMISSIONERS, UM, COMMISSIONER AIDA RAD AULA. UM, AND IF YOU WOULD TAKE A MINUTE JUST TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF, I SHOULD HAVE DONE THIS AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING, BUT WOULD LIKE TO JUST MEET YOU AND HAVE YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO THE GROUP. SURE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UM, SORRY I COULDN'T BE THERE IN PERSON TODAY. UH, I ACTUALLY WORK IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA AND THE TIME I CAME BACK HOME A LITTLE LATE TODAY, UH, HOPEFULLY NEXT TIME I'LL BE THERE IN PERSON. UM, I GO BY NAME, UH, RAO, THAT'S MY FIRST NAME, RA . AND I'VE BEEN AUSTIN RESIDENT FOR 25 YEARS. I'M IN THE DISTRICT 10, UH, AND THEN I WORK IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA. UM, HAVE BEEN ACTIVE IN, UH, MULTIPLE, UH, AGENCIES OR, OR VOLUNTEER ORGANIZATIONS IN THE AUSTIN AREA. UH, I'M A MECHANICAL ENGINEER BY TRAINING, UH, HAVE DONE SOFTWARE. AND CURRENTLY I WORK FOR THE DOD, UM, IN A, IN A, IN A CAPACITY OF, UH, FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF AIR FORCE ADVISING [01:35:01] THEM ON ACQUISITIONS. UH, SO I'M EXCITED TO BE PART OF THIS BOARD AND WANT TO CONTRIBUTE, UH, SOMETHING POSITIVE TO THE CITY OF AUSTIN'S GROWTH OVER. WELL, THANK YOU AND, UH, APPRECIATE YOU JOINING OUR COMMISSION. LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU. UH, AND COMMISSIONER KHAN, WELCOME TO THE DESIGN COMMISSION. IF YOU'D LIKE TO TAKE A MOMENT TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF. YOU YES, AND APOLOGIES. I HOPE YOU GUYS CAN HEAR ME OKAY. I'VE BEEN HAVING A LITTLE BIT OF CONNECTIVITY ISSUES. ALL RIGHT. UM, MY NAME'S SARAH KHAN. UM, YEAH, APOLOGIES ALSO FOR NOT BEING THERE IN PERSON. HOPE TO JOIN THE NEXT MEETING IN PERSON. IT WAS HELPFUL TO JUST OBSERVE EVERYTHING TODAY ALSO, AND JUST, UM, AND, AND HAVING REVIEWED THE MATERIALS. SEE WHAT, UM, HOW, HOW THE MEETINGS RUN. IT'S MY FIRST TIME BEING A COMMISSIONER ON ONE OF THE CITY OF AUSTIN, UM, BOARDS. AND, UH, YEAH, I AM AN ATTORNEY HERE IN AUSTIN. I ACTUALLY WENT TO UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS FOR UNDERGRAD AND LAW SCHOOL AND THEN MOVED TO NEW YORK FOR AROUND 13 YEARS AND THEN MOVED BACK TO AUSTIN A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO. AND, UM, SINCE BEING BACK, WANTED TO GET MORE INVOLVED IN THE COMMUNITY. UM, I CURRENTLY WORK AT THE TEACHER RETIREMENT SYSTEM OF TEXAS, UM, AS AN IN-HOUSE ATTORNEY, BUT FOR A LONG TIME I WAS WORKING, UM, AT DIFFERENT, UH, FUNDS IN NEW YORK, INCLUDING AN INFRASTRUCTURE FUND. AND SO, UM, WAS, WAS, UH, WORKING ON, ON, ON SOME THINGS THAT WERE DESIGNED ADJACENT, I'D SAY. UM, AND THEN SINCE BACK, UH, HAVE JUST, YEAH, BEEN TRYING TO GET MORE CONNECTED TO THE COMMUNITY AND, AND, UH, I'M EXCITED TO SEE HOW I CAN CONTRIBUTE TO THE COMMISSION. ALL RIGHT. WELL, WELCOME, UH, LOOKING FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU AS WELL ON THIS, ON THIS COMMISSION. UM, WELL, WITH THAT BEING SAID, IF THERE ARE NO OTHER ITEMS, UM, I'M GONNA ADJOURN THIS MEETING UNLESS ANYBODY HAS ANY OBJECTIONS. UM, THE TIME IS 7 42 AND THIS MEETING IS ADJOURNED. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.