[CALL MEETING TO ORDER]
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OKAY, I'M CALLING THIS MEETING OF THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION TO ORDER.
IT IS 6:00 PM UM, AND WE HAVE QUORUM.
THE FIRST ITEM, DO WE NEED TO DO A ROLL CALL? YEAH.
UM, COMMISSIONER OR VICE CHAIR? ROBBINS? YES.
UM, ARE THERE ANY, UH, PUBLIC COMMENTS? NOPE.
ANYONE SIGN UP TO SPEAK? NOPE.
[1. Approve the minutes of the Resource Management Commission Meeting on June 17, 2025.]
APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM JUNE 17TH.UM, ALL IN FAVOR OF, UH, THE APPROVING.
UH, ITEM NUMBER THREE IS STAFF BRIEFING REGARDING THE 2025 TEXAS GAS SERVICE RATE CASE BY MARIA MORTON.
I JUST GOT AHEAD OF MYSELF, HUH? WE APPRECIATE YOUR, YOUR, YOUR URGE FOR SPEED
[2. Recommend approval of the Annual Internal Review of the Resource Management Commission for July 2024 through June 2025.]
TWO.UM, ITEM TWO IS RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE ANNUAL INTERNAL REVIEW OF THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION FOR, UH, THE YEAR FROM JULY, 2024 THROUGH JUNE, 2025.
UH, YOU RECEIVED, UH, THIS REPORT IN YOUR PACKET? UM, I CAN BRING IT UP ON THE SCREEN IF WE'D LIKE TO DISCUSS, OR, ACTUALLY, I'M LOOKING FOR A MOTION, SO MOVE.
I HAVE A, A MOTION TO APPROVE THE INTERNAL REVIEW.
IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION? GOOD WORK.
CHARLOTTE CHAIR DAVIS? HEARING NONE, UH, WE'LL CALL FOR A VOTE.
I, OH, THERE IS COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.
I, I WISH TO, UM, THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK ON THIS ON, AND I SUPPORT BOTH THE REVIEW AND THE STATEMENT OF THE BOARD'S GOALS AND OBJECTIVES FOR THE NEW CALENDAR YEAR.
SO THANK YOU FOR ALL OF IT, AND I'M PREPARED TO VOTE IN FAVOR.
ANY OTHER DISCUSSION, QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? OKAY.
ALL IN FAVOR OF, UH, APPROVING THE ANNUAL INTERNAL REVIEW OF THE RMC.
UH, ALRIGHT, NOW WE'RE AT NUMBER THREE.
[3. Staff briefing regarding the 2025 Texas Gas Service rate case by Marija Norton, City Controller, Financial Services Department and Thomas Brocato, outside counsel, Lloyd Gosselink Rochelle & Townsend, P.C. ]
STAFF BRIEFING REGARDING THE 2025 TEXAS GAS SERVICE RATE CASE.MARIA NORTON, CITY CONTROLLER AND THOMAS BRODO OUTSIDE COUNSEL.
GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS.
MARIA NORTON, CITY CONTROLLER.
UH, WE'RE HERE TODAY TO PRESENT, UH, THE, TO GIVE A BRIEF OVERVIEW OF THE 2025 TGS RATE CASE THAT WAS FILED ON JUNE 30TH, 2025.
AND WE HAVE OUR OUTSIDE COUNSEL ON MR. THOMAS BRI BRITO TO PROVIDE THAT BRIEF OVERVIEW.
AND THEN WE'LL TAKE Y'ALL'S COMMENTS AND FEEDBACK, UM, AFTER THAT OVERVIEW.
GOOD EVENING, CHAIR DAVIS COUNCIL, UH, COMMITTEE MEMBERS.
I'M THOMAS PODO, AS SHE INDICATED OUTSIDE COUNSEL ASSISTING THE CITY WITH THIS MATTER.
UM, I PROVIDED TO YOU ALL A MEMO, UM, DETAILING SOME OF THE, UM, ASPECTS OF TG S'S FILINGS.
I WON'T READ THROUGH EVERYTHING OF COURSE.
UM, AND I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS, UM, THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE ABOUT THE FILING.
UM, ON JUNE 30TH, JUST A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, TGS FILED A COMPREHENSIVE BASE RATE CASE AT THE RAILROAD COMMISSION.
UH, ALONG WITH ALL OF THOSE CITIES THAT HAVE ORIGINAL JURISDICTION OVER THE RATES AND SERVICES, THEY FILED THIS RATE CASE IN NOT ONLY THEIR CENTRAL GULF, UH, SERVICE AREA IN WHICH, UM, AUSTIN, UH, RESIDES, BUT ALSO THEIR WEST NORTH AND THEIR RIO GRANDE VALLEY SERVICE AREAS.
THIS IS THE THIRD RATE INCREASE, UM, THAT TGS HAS FILED WITHIN THE LAST YEAR.
THEY HAD A FULL COMPREHENSIVE RATE CASE THAT CULMINATED LAST NOVEMBER, AND THEN THEY FILED THEIR ANNUAL GRIP FILING THIS PAST APRIL.
UM, THE STATED EFFECTIVE DATE IS AUGUST THE 19TH, WHICH MEANS CITIES HAVE UNTIL AUGUST THE 19TH
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TO TAKE SOME ACTION ON THE FILING.WHAT WE HAVE RECOMMENDED, UM, CITIES DO IS THAT THEY SUSPEND THE, UM, EFFECTIVE DATE.
THEY'RE ABLE TO DO THAT UNDER THE LAW ABOUT AN ADDITIONAL 90 DAYS.
THAT GIVES THE CITIES ADDITIONAL TIME TO REVIEW THE FILING.
ULTIMATELY, UH, YOU'LL NEED TO MAKE SOME TYPE OF FINAL DECISION, UM, BY MID-NOVEMBER.
UH, AND AT THAT TIME, IF THE CITY CHOOSE, EXCUSE ME, IF THE UTILITY CHOOSES TO DO SO, THEY CAN APPEAL THAT DECISION TO THE RAILROAD COMMISSION WHERE IT WILL BE CONSOLIDATED WITH THE CASE THAT'S PENDING OVER AT, UH, AT THE COMMISSION.
I'LL GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF HIGH LEVEL KIND OF SUMMARY OF SOME OF THE, UM, VARIOUS ASPECTS OF THE FILING.
AGAIN, I WON'T GO INTO ALL THE DETAILS, BUT IF THERE'S CERTAIN ITEMS THAT YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT I DON'T GO OVER OR THINGS YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT IN GREATER DETAILS, I'M HAPPY TO DO THAT.
OVERALL, THE COMPANY IS SEEKING TO INCREASE, UH, REVENUES BY $41.1 MILLION, WHICH, UH, TRANSLATES INTO A 7.07% RATE INCREASE, UM, INCLUDING GAS COSTS, UH, IF YOU EXCLUDE GAS COSTS, WHICH ARE A PASS THROUGH.
AND SO THAT'S WHY TYPICALLY, UM, IT'S PORTRAYED THERE ARE AN INCREASE THAT'S PORTRAYED BOTH WITH GAS COSTS AND WITHOUT EXCLUDING GAS COSTS.
IT'S ABOUT A 9.83% OVERALL REVENUE REQUIREMENT INCREASE OVER CURRENT RATES.
THE COMPANY HAS FILED THE APPLICATION IN THREE, ALL THREE OF ITS SERVICE AREAS, AS I MENTIONED.
AND THE REASON THAT THEY HAVE DONE THAT IS 'CAUSE THEY'RE PROPOSING TO CONSOLIDATE ALL OF THEIR, UM, THREE SERVICE AREAS INTO ONE SERVICE AREA.
JUST SO YOU'RE AWARE, HISTORICALLY, UTILITIES SUCH AS ATMOS ENERGY OR CENTERPOINT AND TGS HAVE HAD MULTIPLE SERVICE AREAS ACROSS THE STATE.
THERE'S BEEN A TREND OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS TO CONSOLIDATE THOSE SERVICE AREAS.
THE REASON WHY THOSE SERVICE AREAS HAVE EXISTED IN THE FIRST PLACE IS BECAUSE THERE'S A DIFFERENT COST TO SERVE CUSTOMERS IN DIFFERENT AREAS, AND THERE'S A WHOLE BUNCH OF DIFFERENT REASONS WHY THAT'S THE CASE.
MOST NOTABLY, CERTAIN AREAS ARE MORE DENSE, MORE URBAN, AND GENERALLY THE COST TO SERVE CUSTOMERS IN THOSE AREAS IS LESS THAN IN, UM, MORE RURAL OR SPREAD OUT AREAS, UH, WHERE CUSTOMERS ARE, YOU KNOW, NOT AS CLOSE.
SIMILARLY, UM, SERVICE AREAS, UM, HAVE DISTINGUISHING CHARACTERISTICS BECAUSE OF THE CLIMATE.
UM, FOR EXAMPLE, IT'S TRADITIONALLY, UM, LESS OR, OR DIFFERENT COSTS TO SERVE CUSTOMERS ALONG THE GULF COAST OR A WARMER CLIMATE, UH, THAN, UH, IN COLDER AREAS SUCH AS THE PANHANDLE OR, OR OTHER AREAS OF THE STATE.
NEVERTHELESS, THERE'S BEEN THIS TREND, AS I MENTIONED, TO, TO CONSOLIDATE SERVICE AREAS.
AND THE ROWER COMMISSION HAS BEEN VERY RECEPTIVE, UH, TO, UM, ACCOMMODATING UTILITIES.
AND SO YOU MAY RECALL JUST A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, UM, TGS HAD WHAT WAS CALLED THEIR GULF COAST SERVICE AREA, WHICH INCLUDED THE BEAUMONT PORT, ARTHUR AREA, AS WELL AS THE CITY OF GALVESTON.
AND THEN THEY HAD THEIR CENTRAL SERVICE AREA, WHICH INCLUDES THE CITY OF AUSTIN, AND THOSE WERE CONSOLIDATED.
AND THAT'S WHAT, UH, GAVE US THE CENTRAL GULF COAST SERVICE AREA OR CENTRAL GULF SERVICE AREA.
THAT, THAT, UH, WE NOW HAVE, UM, SOME OTHER THINGS, UM, THAT ARE INCLUDED IN THE FILING.
UM, I, I DETAIL HERE ON PAGE ONE OF THE MEMO, THE DIFFERENT IMPACTS THAT THE COMPANY'S PROPOSAL WILL HAVE ON RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS.
UM, YOU MAY RECALL THAT IN THE LAST CASE, TGS SUCCESSFULLY PROPOSED TO CREATE, UH, WHAT'S CALLED A, A SMALL RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER GROUP AND A LARGE CUSTOMER RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER GROUP.
THE BREAK POINT IS, IS CUSTOMERS WHO HAVE AN ANNUAL CONSUMPTION OF, UM, 130 CCF.
SO IF YOU'RE LESS THAN 130 CCF, YOU'RE A SMALL RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER.
AND IF YOU'RE IN EXCESS OF 130 CCF, YOU'RE A LARGE RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER.
SO WE HAVE BASICALLY A TIERED, UH, RESIDENTIAL CLASS.
THEY, THEY DON'T HAVE THAT FOR COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS WHO ARE SOMEWHAT TIERED INSOFAR AS YOU HAVE A SMALL COMMERCIAL, UH, AND A LARGE COMMERCIAL.
UM, BUT THEY'RE, THEY DON'T HAVE SUB, UM, TIERS WITHIN THOSE CATEGORIES.
UH, AND AS YOU CAN SEE HERE, THERE'S DIFFERENT IMPACTS, UM, BASED UPON THE COMPANY'S, BASED UPON THE ASSUMPTION THAT THE COMPANY'S TOTAL REQUEST IS GRANTED.
YOU CAN ALSO NOTE THAT THERE'S DISPARATE IMPACTS, UH, ON THE VARIOUS, UM, SERVICE AREAS.
AND SO BY CONSOLIDATING INTO ONE COST OF SERVICE, UM, IT'S GONNA HAVE DIFFERENT IMPACTS DEPENDING UPON WHETHER YOU'RE CURRENTLY IN THE GULF CO IN CENTRAL GULF SERVICE AREA, OR THE WEST NORTH SERVICE AREA, OR THE RIO GRANDE VALLEY.
UM, THE COMPANY IS PROPOSING TO INCREASE FOR THE CENTRAL GULF SERVICE AREA, THE CUSTOMER CHARGE, UM, FOR SMALL RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS FROM 2136 A MONTH TO 29 50.
SO THERE'S A PRETTY, UM, SIGNIFICANT INCREASE THERE.
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AND FOR LARGE RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS, THE CUSTOMER CHARGE WOULD GO UP FROM 33, UH, DOLLARS AND 36 CENTS TO 39 50.AGAIN, A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT INCREASE THERE.
I'VE ALSO PRESENTED IN THE MEMO ON PAGE TWO, THE IMPACT ON COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS.
UM, SOME OTHER, UH, ASPECTS OF THE FILING THAT MAY BE OF INTEREST TO YOU.
THE COMPANY IS PROPOSING WHAT THEY REFER TO AS AN EXPANSION OF THE SHARE THE WARMTH PROGRAM.
THAT'S THEIR LOW INCOME PROGRAM CURRENTLY.
UM, TGS SHAREHOLDERS, UH, WILL MATCH CUSTOMER CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE SHARE THE WORTH WARMTH PROGRAM UP TO A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS.
CUSTOMER CONTRIBUTIONS WERE A LITTLE BIT OVER 92,000, AND SO TGS MATCHED THAT, BUT UNDER THE, THE PROPOSED FILING, UM, THE COMPANY WOULD INCREASE THE AMOUNT, UM, ALLOCATED TO THE SHARE OF THE WONK PROGRAM UP TO $2 MILLION.
HOWEVER, UM, THAT WOULD BE COLLECTED FROM RATE PAYERS.
AND IT'S NOT CLEAR TO ME IN THE FILING WHETHER THEY WOULD CONTINUE TO CONTRIBUTE ANY AMOUNT FROM SHAREHOLDER DOLLARS.
SO THAT'S SOMETHING WE'LL NEED TO CLARIFY.
THEY ARE ALSO ASKING THAT RATE PAYERS, UM, PAY $120,000 FOR A DONATION MANAGEMENT PLATFORM, 104,000 FOR A NEW EMPLOYEE TO MANAGE THE PROGRAM, 60,000 FOR OUTREACH ABOUT THE PROGRAM.
SO IN TOTAL, TGS IS IS REQUESTING, UH, 2.284 MILLION FROM RATE PAYERS TO, UM, FUND THE SHARE OF THE WARMTH PROGRAM.
THEY ARE ALSO, UM, PROPOSING A NEW, UH, PILOT PROGRAM CALLED A CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE RESIDENTIAL RATE SCHEDULE PILOT PROGRAM FOR QUALIFYING CUSTOMERS.
UM, AND, UM, THIS WOULD PROVIDE FOR A DISCOUNT TO, UM, UP TO 30,000 CU CUSTOMERS WHO QUALIFY FOR THAT, THAT ASSISTANCE.
UM, THE COMPANY IS REQUESTING IN TOTAL ABOUT $570,000 FROM, UM, ALL CUSTOMERS TO HELP FUND THAT PILOT PROGRAM.
SO, UM, THAT'S ANOTHER, UH, ASPECT OF THE FILING THAT YOU, YOU MAY BE INTERESTED IN.
UM, THOSE ARE SOME OF THE HIGHLIGHTS.
WE HAVE ENGAGED THREE CONSULTANTS TO ASSIST US IN REVIEWING THE FILING.
THEY'RE CURRENTLY CONDUCTING DISCOVERY.
THERE'S ALSO, UM, ANOTHER CITY GROUP THAT REPRESENTS THE CUSTOMERS OUT IN THE WEST NORTH SERVICE AREA THAT WE ARE WORKING WITH.
THEY HAVE ENGAGED TWO CONSULTANTS TO REVIEW DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF THE FILING SO THAT WE'RE NOT, UM, DUPLICATING EFFORTS THERE.
WE HAVE NOT GOTTEN AN ORDER FROM THE COMMISSION SETTING A PROCEDURAL SCHEDULE OR SETTING UP A PROCEDURAL, UM, HEARING IN WHICH WE WOULD ESTABLISH THE SCHEDULE, BUT I EXPECT THAT TO HAPPEN ANY DAY DAY.
I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
OH, I WOULD NOTE ONE OTHER, UM, ITEM, WE EXPECT A DECISION FROM THE ROWER COMMISSION ON OR ABOUT MID-JANUARY OF NEXT YEAR.
SO THE, THE COM COMMISSION GETS 185 DAYS TO, UH, REVIEW THE FILING.
ACTUALLY, IN THIS CASE, BECAUSE OF THE EFFECTIVE DATES SET BY THE COMPANY, THE COMMISSION WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE 195 DAYS, SO THEY HAVE SLIGHTLY LONGER, BUT BASICALLY WE, WE WOULD EXPECT A DECISION IN MID-JANUARY OF 2026.
SO WITH THAT, I'M HAPPY TO TALK ABOUT ANY OF THE ITEMS THAT I'VE MENTIONED OR OTHER THINGS THAT MAY BE OF INTEREST TO YOU ABOUT THIS FILING.
THANK YOU MR. BROO, APPRECIATE THAT PRESENTATION.
UM, WHY DON'T WE START, I KNOW WE HAVE SOME, UM, SOME THOUGHTS ON THE FILING, BUT WHY DON'T WE START WITH ANY CLARIFYING QUESTIONS THAT COMMISSIONERS MAY HAVE ABOUT THE PRESENTATION OR THE MEMO? UM, COMMISSIONER LUKI? YEAH.
UM, I WAS CURIOUS HOW MANY CUSTOMERS ARE GONNA BE, OR HOUSEHOLDS ARE GONNA BE, UM, UH, HELPED BY THE SHARE THE WARMTH PROGRAM.
DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA ABOUT THE, WHAT THOSE NUMBERS ARE? I DON'T KNOW.
I CAN GET BACK TO YOU ON IT, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT, UH, AT THIS POINT.
AND IS THAT SOMETHING THAT'S SYSTEM WIDE, LIKE IN ALL AREAS? IT IT WOULD BE SYSTEM WIDE, YES.
YOU MENTIONED THE, THE SHARE THE WARMTH PROGRAM WAS THEY WERE PROPOSING TO SWITCH, UH, OVER TO THE, TAKING THE 2 MILLION FROM THE RATE BASE RATHER THAN FROM THE SHAREHOLDER, UH, ASSETS.
COULD YOU KIND OF C CLARIFY WHAT THAT IS OTHER THAN A SEMANTIC DIFFERENCE? I GUESS THEY'RE, THESE, THESE ARE STRUCTURED WITH A CERTAIN RETURN EQUITY.
WHAT DOES THAT REALLY MEAN, RIGHT,
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THAT THE, THE MONEY IS COMING FROM HERE VERSUS THE RATE BASE IF IT'S, IF THEY'RE, IF THEY'RE THE SHAREHOLDERS? SURE.SO CURRENTLY IN THE CENTRAL GULF SERVICE AREA, WHEN CUSTOMERS GET A BILL FROM TGS, THEY HAVE THE, THE, UM, ABILITY TO CHECK A BOX AND MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THE SHARE OF THE WARMTH PROGRAM.
IN THE LAST OR EIGHT CASE, WE HAD A SETTLEMENT IN WHICH THE COMPANY AGREED TO MATCH CONTRIBUTIONS UP TO A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS.
AND AS I MENTIONED, THE MOST RECENT DATA THAT WE HAVE THAT'S CONTAINED IN THE COMPANY'S FILING SAYS THAT IN 19, OH, EXCUSE ME, 2024, UM, CUSTOMERS CONTRIBUTED A LITTLE BIT OVER $92,000.
SO THE COMPANY CONTRIBUTED 92,000 AS WELL.
AND SO YOU HAD A $184,000 THAT WENT TO THE SHARE OF THE WARMTH PROGRAM.
UM, AND SHAREHOLDERS PAID FOR THAT 92,000 THAT WAS CONTRIBUTED BY TGS.
SO RATE PAYERS WEREN'T, UM, REQUIRED TO PAY THAT ADDITIONAL AMOUNT THROUGH THEIR RATES.
NOW, THE COMPANY IS PROPOSING TO INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF FUNDING TO, TO THE SHARE OF THE WARMTH PROGRAM PRETTY SIGNIFICANTLY, UM, UP TO TWO, UH, YOU KNOW, $2 MILLION.
BUT THEY'RE, UM, ASKING THAT, THAT BE INCLUDED IN CUSTOMER RATES.
SO ALL CUSTOMERS WOULD PAY FOR THE THIS PROGRAM AS PART OF THEIR, THEIR GAS BILL.
NOW, I WOULD ALSO NOTE THAT BY CONSOLIDATING THE SERVICE AREAS, YOU'RE NOW BRINGING IN A LOT MORE, YOU KNOW, CUSTOMERS, OBVIOUSLY THOSE FROM WEST TEXAS AND, AND THE VALLEY AS WELL.
AND SO, UM, SO THEY'RE SORT OF CONSOLIDATING, UM, ALL OF, ALL OF THAT, UH, THOSE PROGRAMS. UM, AND SO YOU HAVE TO TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT AS WELL.
SO YOU'VE GOT AN INCREASE, BUT YOU'VE, YOU'RE SPREADING IT OVER A LOT MORE CUSTOMERS.
UH, AND MOST NOTABLY, THEY'RE BASICALLY SUBS, UH, UM, SOCIALIZING THAT, THAT CONTRIBUTION.
AND AS I'VE NOTED, IT'S NOT CLEAR TO US, AT LEAST IN THE FILING, WHETHER, UM, THE COMPANY'S SHAREHOLDERS WOULD BE MAKING ANY CONTRIBUTION WHATSOEVER, OR IF IT COMES, UM, ENTIRELY FROM CUSTOMERS THROUGH THEIR RATES, IT APPEARS THAT THAT'S THE CASE.
BUT I, I DON'T KNOW THAT WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY WILL WE'LL NEED TO CON CONFIRM THAT.
AND THEN IN ADDITION, THE COMPANIES ASKED FOR $284,000, UM, TO HELP SORT OF MANAGE THAT PROGRAM, INCLUDING THE HIRING OF AN EMPLOYEE, AS I MENTIONED.
SO ARE EXCESS RATES FROM THE RATE BASE, EXCESS REVENUE FROM THE RATE BASE, IS THAT RETURN TO THE SHAREHOLDER? LIKE WHAT, WHAT IS, IS THIS JUST LIKE AN ABOVE THE LINE, BELOW THE LINE, UH, DISTINCTION OR WHAT? WELL, THE WAY THAT I UNDERSTAND IT IS THIS, THAT TGS IS TREATING THIS PROGRAM AS A, AN EXPENSE, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER TYPE OF EXPENSE THAT THEY WOULD HAVE, AND THEY WOULD BUILD THAT INTO THEIR REVENUE REQUIREMENT, UH, AND CUSTOMERS WOULD, WOULD PAY THAT.
AND DO, YOU KNOW, I, I GUESS KIND OF A FOLLOW UP QUESTION TO WHAT YOU MENTIONED WITH AUSTIN NOW BEING A SMALLER FRACTION OF THE NEW, UH, AREA MM-HMM
DO YOU KNOW WHAT, I GUESS I COULD LOOK UP HOW LARGE THE, ALL THE TOTAL THREE AREAS ARE RIGHT NOW, BUT DO YOU KNOW WHAT FRACTION AUSTIN IS OF? IT'S IN THE FILING.
I COULD PUT MY HAND ON IT VERY QUICKLY, BUT I DON'T HAVE THAT NUMBER OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.
THE, THE NUMBER OF CUSTOMERS IN THE CENTRAL GULF SERVICE AREA IN THE TOTAL, THAT DOES SOUND LIKE TOTAL, YEAH.
I KNOW CITY OF BOSTON HAS TWO JUST RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS.
SO MAYBE LIKE A THIRD, BUT WE CAN CHECK.
I, WE COULD QUICKLY PUT OUR HANDS ON IT.
I JUST DON'T HAVE IT HERE WITH ME.
UM, YES, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS, JUST A COUPLE CLARIFYING STATISTICS.
UH, COMMISSIONER SWARTZ, I TRIED TO DETERMINE YOUR QUESTION, UH, UH, DAY OR TWO AGO.
MY ESTIMATE IS THAT AUSTIN, UH, THE CITY OF AUSTIN PROBABLY MAKES UP ABOUT ONE THIRD OF ALL RESIDENT OF, OF ALL RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS IN THE NEW PROPOSED AREA, IN THE NEW PRO, IN THE STATE, UH, YEAH.
UM, AND, UH, REGARDING COMMISSIONER, UH, LUI'S, UH, QUESTION, UH, THIS ISN'T A DIRECT ANSWER, BUT YESTERDAY SOME INFORMATION WAS SHARED TO ME, UH, THAT THERE ARE ABOUT 7,000 DISCONNECTS A YEAR, AND IN AUSTIN THAT REPRESENTS, UH, WHAT, 3%, 4%.
NOW, THAT DOESN'T TELL ME IF THESE PEOPLE WERE DISCONNECTED MORE THAN ONCE, BUT ASSUMING THAT
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LIGHTNING DOESN'T STRIKE TWICE IN THE SAME PLACE, THAT WOULD BE THREE OR 4%.NOW THAT DOESN'T TELL US HOW MANY RECEIVED SHARE THE WARMTH BENEFITS.
COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN, THANK YOU.
UM, I'D LIKE TO OFFER A PROCEDURAL SUGGESTION, PLEASE, OR REQUEST, AND THAT IS SINCE THE, THIS ITEM WAS NOT LISTED AS A VOTING MATTER, AND YET THE CITY COUNCIL WILL BE TAKING IT UP ON AUGUST 19, IT APPEARS THAT THE ONLY WAY THAT THIS COMMISSION CAN GET OUR VIEWS IN ON THE ISSUE IS TO HAVE US, UM, DISCUSS AND VOTE ON VARIOUS ELEMENTS OF THIS RATE CASE PROPOSAL AS A MATTER OF, TO EXPRESS THE SENTIMENT OF THE COMMISSION, IF YOU WILL.
SO WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO IS PROPOSE THAT WE HAVE A DISCUSSION ON A NUMBER OF THESE ITEMS AND AT, AND, AND A FAIRLY BRISK DISCUSSION BECAUSE I'M WALKING OUT THE DOOR AT SEVEN 30, AND I DON'T KNOW IF WE'LL HAVE A QUORUM AFTER THAT, WHICH MEANS THAT, THAT EVERYTHING ON THE AGENDA GETS WIPED OUT IF WE DON'T HAVE A QUORUM.
SO MY PROPOSAL, AND I HOPE THERE'S SOME SUPPORT FOR THIS, IS THAT WE WALK THROUGH A BUNCH OF THE ITEMS, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS HAS A LIST.
I HAVE A LIST, I'M SURE YOU HAVE YOUR OWN FAVORITES TO, TO DISCUSS.
AND AFTER A BRIEF DISCUSSION OF EACH OF THEM, WE, WE GET SOME STATEMENT OF, UM, ARE WE FOR THIS OR AGAINST IT? WHAT ARE OUR CONCERNS? AND THEN OUR, UM, THE CITY'S ATTORNEY TEAM CAN RELAY THOSE BACK AS APPROPRIATE.
UM, SORRY, I WANNA PROVIDE SOME CLARIFICATION.
UM, WE ARE ACTUALLY TAKING THIS ITEM ON NEXT WEEK, JULY 24TH MEETING, BECAUSE THAT'S THE NEXT AVAILABLE MEETING, UM, UNTIL WE CAN REALLY ACTUALLY SUSPEND THE RATES.
SO WE'RE TAKING IT NEXT WEEK TO SUSPEND THE RATES FOR THE 90 DAYS, UM, JULY 24TH.
AND FOR THAT SUSPENSION, THAT 90 DAY SUSPENSION, DOES THAT PROVIDE US SOME ADDITIONAL TIME FOR, SAY, THE RMC TO COME TOGETHER WITH A, AN ACTUAL FORMAL RECOMMENDATION? THAT IS, WE, WE RECOMMEND THAT Y'ALL COME BACK TO US BY AUGUST 8TH, WHICH IS BEFORE OUR NEXT MEETING.
SO THAT WAY OUR OUTSIDE COUNSEL CAN TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION FOR THE DISCOVERY SESSIONS.
UM, SO I, I THINK WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE, UM, YOU KNOW, THE ITEMS OR THE, THE FOCUS AREAS THAT WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT AS A COMMISSION.
WE'RE NOT POSTED OBVIOUSLY TO VOTE FORMALLY ON ANYTHING, BUT CERTAINLY TO PROVIDE INPUT TO THE TEAM THAT'S HERE AND TO GET THE SENTIMENT ON THE RECORD.
I DID HAVE, UH, JUST A COUPLE CLARIFYING QUESTIONS.
UM, ONE IS, ARE, ARE MOST OF THESE DOLLAR, THESE DOLLAR AMOUNTS ARE MOSTLY ANNUAL FIGURES, RIGHT? EXCLUDING THE ONES THAT THE PER MONTHLY BILL, BUT THE $2 MILLION, $2.2 MILLION, $507,000 FOR, UH, SHARE THE WARMTH AND THE CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE PILOT PROGRAM? THOSE ARE ANNUAL FIGURES? YES.
AND, UM, IS THERE, FOR THIS PILOT PROGRAM, IS THERE ANY, UM, I GUESS I CAN SAVE THAT FOR WHEN WE, WHEN WE TALK AROUND, AROUND THAT, BUT, UM, OKAY.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER CLARIFYING QUESTIONS BEFORE WE SORT OF DIVE INTO THE SPECIFIC AREAS? UH, YES.
VICE CHAIR WOMENS, UM, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.
SIR, DO YOU, DO YOU WANT TO GO FIRST OR, UM, THE, THE TOP ITEMS? WE, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS AND I SHARED OUR LISTS, AND THE TOP ITEM ON BOTH OF OUR LISTS AND ON MR. BRO'S MEMO IS THE ISSUE OF CONSOLIDATION.
SO WHY DON'T WE START THERE? ALL RIGHT, LET'S START WITH CONSOLIDATION.
MY PROPOSAL IS THERE APPEARS TO BE NO UPSIDE FOR THE CITY OF AUSTIN AND OUR GAS RATE PAYERS FROM THIS CONSOLIDATION.
SO I RECOMMEND THAT WE OPPOSE IT, UH, JUST, UH, FOR CLARIFI, I'M SORRY, I HAVE, AM I INTERRUPT? OKAY.
JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, I, MOST OF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE TERM DEGREE DAYS.
UH, THERE'S HEATING DEGREE DAYS AND COOLING DEGREE DAYS.
THEY ARE A METRIC OF HOW MUCH HEATING AND AIR CONDITIONING A, UH, CERTAIN CITY OR CLIMATE
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WOULD, UH, HAVE ON AVERAGE.AND IN BROWNSVILLE, WHICH IS THE RIO GRANDE AREA OF TEXAS GAS SERVICE, UH, IN THE RIO GRANDE AREA OF TEXAS GAS SERVICE, THEY HAVE 635 DEGREE DAYS IN AUSTIN, IT'S ALMOST 1700 IN EL PASO, IT'S JUST A LITTLE HIGHER THAN 2,700.
UH, SO THIS GIVES A GOOD CLARITY OF WHY MERGING THESE THREE REGIONS FOR PURPOSES OF RATES IS A BAD IDEA.
WELL, TO TO, TO BE MORE SPECIFIC DEGREE DAYS APPLY TO THE VOLUMETRIC GAS CHARGE.
AND, AND THIS, SO THAT MEANS THAT CONSOLIDATION WILL, BUT, BUT DEGREE DAYS DON'T APPLY TO THE BASE CHARGE.
AND, AND THIS PROPOSED CONSOLIDATION WOULD RAISE AUSTIN CUSTOMERS BASE CHARGES REGARDLESS OF OF DEGREE, DAYS AND GAS CONSUMPTION.
SO MY PROPOSAL IS THAT WE OPPOSE THE CONSOLIDATION FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS.
I WOULD SECOND IT, BUT WE CAN'T DO THAT
MADAM CHAIR? UM, YEAH, I, I HAVE A QUESTION AROUND THAT.
IS THAT, UM, THE OPPOSING OF THE CONSOLIDATION, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT IS PART OF THE NEGOTIATION? MOST DEFINITELY.
AND I DON'T KNOW, WE'RE ABLE TO DISCUSS THIS.
IT'S, YOU KNOW, NEGOTIATE, BUT I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S CLEARLY AN ISSUE IN THE CASE IN SCOPE.
THERE'S NO, DEFINITELY, THERE'S NO SURPRISE THERE.
UM, THIS, AND I'LL TELL YOU, IT'S BEEN AN ISSUE AND AN EVERY, UM, CASE IN WHICH UTILITIES INCLUDING TGS HAVE PROPOSED TO CONSOLIDATE SERVICE AREAS.
IT'S AN ISSUE WITH THE COMMISSION STAFF.
IT'S BEEN AN ISSUE WITH THE CITIES.
JUST BEFORE I ARRIVED HERE, UH, I LOOKED UP CENTER POINT, AND THEY HAVE FOUR REGIONS, AND ATMOS HAS TWO REGIONS.
SO THERE'S THREE LARGE GAS COMPANIES IN TEXAS AND TEXAS GAS SERVICE WOULD BECOME THE FIRST TO HAVE A STATE RATE AND NOT REGIONAL RATES.
ACTUALLY, CENTERPOINT HAS CONSOLIDATED THEIR SERVICE AREAS.
THEY HAD CONSOLIDATED THE TEXAS COAST AND THE HOUSTON DIVISION, AND THEN MOST RECENTLY THEY, THEY INCLUDED THE EAST TEXAS BEAUMONT SERVICE AREA WITH IT, AS WELL AS THE SOUTH TEXAS SERVICE AREA.
YOU MAY BE CORRECT, MR. BRIDO, BUT I DID LOOK IT UP ONLINE AND THERE SEEMED TO BE FOUR REGIONS AND, AND THEY STILL HAVE THOSE FOUR GRIP FILINGS, SO IT'S BEEN APPROVED.
THEY'RE SORT OF PHASING IT IN, IF YOU WILL.
I AM INTERESTED IN A, UM, IN A SENTIMENT OF THE COMMISSION, UM, AS FAR AS OPPOSING THE CONSOLIDATION, DO WE FEEL LIKE THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD AGREE TO GENERALLY ALL IN FAVOR OF OPPOSING CONSOLIDATION? I'M JUST GETTING THIS, THE TEMPERATURE OF THE COMMISSION LOOKS LIKE EVERYBODY FEELS THAT WAY.
PAUL, DO YOU WANNA DO ONE ON YOUR LIST? UM, OPPOSITION TO REGRESSIVE RATES, UM, AS IF THE RATES WERE NOT BAD ENOUGH, THEY'VE DECIDED TO PILOT ON AND MAKE THEM EVEN MORE AGGRESSIVE THAN THEY WERE.
UM, I'VE SPOKEN TO THIS SEVERAL TIMES IN THE PAST.
I THINK MOST OF THE COMMISSIONERS HAVE A SENSE OF IT, EVEN WITHOUT MY INFORMED OPINION.
SO I'M MAKING THE SUGGESTION THAT WE, UH, STRIDENTLY OPPOSE THE RE THE PROPOSED REGRESSIVE RATE STRUCTURE.
OTHER COMMENTS? I WILL, I WILL ECHO VICE CHAIR ROBBINS SENTIMENT.
I THINK THIS COMMISSION HAS BEEN VERY CLEAR, UH, IN THE PAST IN ITS OPPOSITION TO REGRESSIVE RATES, UH, ON ANY UTILITY.
UM, I SEE HERE 38% INCREASE IN THE CUSTOMER CHARGE, WHICH I FIND OUTRAGEOUS.
UM, I DEFINITELY COMPLETELY, UH, YOU KNOW, OPPOSE REGRESSIVE RATES OR MAKING THESE RATES EVEN MORE REGRESSIVE THAN THEY ALREADY ARE, AND THE VOLUMETRIC CHARGE IS PROPOSED TO DECREASE.
[00:30:01]
UM, SO THAT'S QUITE THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT WE WANNA SEE HAPPEN.AND, AND TO TIE THAT BACK TO THE PURPOSE OF THIS COMMISSION, WHICH IS TO ADVANCE CONSERVATION AND EFFICIENT RESOURCE USE, REGRESSIVE RATES IN THE WAY THAT THIS DESIGN RATE DESIGN HAS BEEN PROPOSED IS COMPLETELY OPPOSITE TO EVERYTHING THAT WE HAVE JUST VOTED TO APPROVE IN TERMS OF OUR COMMITMENTS TO CONSERVATION AND EQUITY.
DOES ANYBODY WANT TO DEFEND REGRESSIVE RATES?
COMMISSIONER FARMER, I'M GONNA PLEAD DEVIL'S ADVOCATE, WOULD, UH, MORE EXPENSIVE AND REGRESSIVE RATES NOT LEAD, UH, MORE PEOPLE TO DISCONNECT THEIR GAS AND ELECTRIFY THAT ITSELF IS REGRESSIVE.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE MONEY TO DISCONNECT FROM GAS AND ELECTRIFY, SO IT LEAVES THE POOREST CUSTOMERS WITH THE FEWEST OPTIONS AND THE HIGHEST BILL.
UM, SO, UH, INFORMALLY, WHAT DOES THE COMMISSION THINK ABOUT OPPOSING PROGRESSIVE RATES IN THE TEXAS GAS RATE CASE? YEAH, HOW ABOUT OUT ON THE, OKAY.
ALRIGHT, I THINK THAT'S PRETTY CLEAR.
WHAT'S THE NEXT, UH, ITEM? COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN? UM, IT'S YOUR TURN.
IF, IF Y'ALL HAVE ITEMS YOU WANNA JUMP ON IN, LET US KNOW, BUT PAUL AND I HAVE A PRETTY GOOD LIST AND I HOPE WE HOPE HIT ALL OF THEM.
UM, I AM CONCERNED ABOUT THIS PROPOSAL FOR, UM, THE SHARE THE WARMTH PROGRAM.
CURRENTLY, AS MR. BRODO EXPLAINED, CONTRIBUTIONS COME FROM CUSTOMERS ON A VOLUNTARY BASIS AND ARE MATCHED BY SHAREHOLDERS, UM, PROPOSING TO PUT A CHARITABLE PROGRAM INTO RATES SO THAT WE ALL PAY TO SUBSIDIZE TO, TO, TO PROVIDE CHARITY.
I DO NOT OPPOSE IN ANY WAY SYSTEM BENEFIT FUNDS OR OTHER PURPOSES.
BUT TO SAY THAT, TO ASK US ALL TO SUPPORT A CHARITABLE CONTRIBUTION FOR LOW INCOME CUSTOMERS WHO ARE NOT IN OUR AREA, WHO ARE AT RISK OF, UM, CONNECTION IS A STEP TOO FAR FOR ME, PARTICULARLY SINCE, GIVEN THE LACK OF CLARITY WITH RESPECT TO ANY COMMITMENT FOR ONGOING SHAREHOLDER FUNDS FROM TGS, THE ONLY WAY THAT IF I WERE NEGOTIATING THIS, I WOULD CONSIDER APPROVING ANYTHING HAVING TO DO WITH RATE PAYER CONTRIBUTIONS FOR SHARE.
THE WARMTH WOULD BE IF THERE WAS A MANDATORY ONE FOR $1 FOR DOLLAR MATCHING CONTRIBUTION FROM TGS SHAREHOLDERS.
AND WITHOUT SUCH A COMMITMENT, I HAVE TO VIOLENTLY OPPOSE VE TRANSFER VEHEMENTLY, VEHEMENTLY AND VIOLENT AND VIOLENTLY OPPOSE THIS, THIS SIGNIFICANT PROPOSED CHANGE.
EVERYBODY ELSE, ELSE WHO HAS, WHO HAS A CHARITABLE PROGRAM IS GETTING, IS ASKING, DEAR RATE PAYER, WOULD YOU LIKE TO ROUND UP? OR WOULD YOU LIKE TO THROW IN AN EXTRA 10 BUCKS OR SOMETHING.
THEY ARE NOT HAVING IT SLAMMED INTO RATES AND THEN CLAIMING THAT IT'S CHARITY AND I WILL NOT SUPPORT IT HERE.
UM, ON THAT, I, I DO WANT TO ASK FOR CLARITY ON THE $2 MILLION AMOUNT.
IS THIS AN AMOUNT UP TO 2 MILLION BASED ON WHAT THE VOLUNTARY, VOLUNTARY CONTRIBUTIONS TO THAT PROGRAM WOULD BE? OR IS THIS, THIS IS IN THE BUDGET AS $2 MILLION, PART OF THE $41 MILLION INCREASE? THE LATTER.
THE, THE 2 MILLION PLUS THE ADMINISTRATIVE COST, 2.2 WOULD BE INCLUDED IN RATES, AND THAT'S AN ANNUAL AMOUNT.
HISTORICALLY, UTILITIES HAVE CLAIMED THAT THEY'VE HAD DIFFICULTY AT TIMES DISTRIBUTING ALL THE MONEY THAT THEY, THEY HAVE FOR THESE TYPES OF PROGRAMS. AND THERE'S A WHOLE, THAT'S A WHOLE NOTHER DISCUSSION.
UM, SO IT'S NOT CLEAR TO ME AT THIS MOMENT EXACTLY HOW THE FUNDS WOULD BE ADMINISTERED AND WHAT HAPPENS IF THEY DON'T DISTRIBUTE THE FULL AMOUNT.
UM, SO WE'D NEED TO EXAMINE THAT.
BUT THE IDEA IS THAT IT WOULD BE THIS 2 MILLION ANNUALLY.
I, I THINK THROUGHOUT ALL THE CONSOLIDATED SERVICE AREA.
I THINK, I THINK THE OPACITY OF HOW THAT IS SUPPOSED TO WORK IS WHAT GETS TO ME.
I DON'T TRUST IT, UM, BECAUSE I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THEY ARE INTENDING TO DO THAT.
SO THAT'S, DON'T FORGET THE $284,000 ON TOP OF IT TO RUN THE PROGRAM.
[00:35:01]
AN ANNUAL COST.UM, COMMISSIONER ZIN, DID YOU HAVE A COMMENT? YOU'RE MUTED.
DAVE, CAN YOU UNMUTE HER? SHE'S NOT MUTED.
MAY MAYBE A DIFFERENT MICROPHONE SOURCE.
I CAN READ IT OUT LOUD, DANNY.
WELL, WE DO WANNA HEAR FROM YOU, SO IF YOU FIGURE OUT A TEXT OPTION OR, UM, OR THE MICROPHONE, WE'LL COME BACK TO YOU FOR SURE.
UM, ARE THERE OTHER COMMENTS ON THE SHARE THE WARMTH PROGRAM? I'D LOVE TO HEAR OTHER COMMISSIONER'S PERSPECTIVE.
COMMISSIONER LUKI, UH, I'M $2 MILLION SEEMS LIKE A REALLY ARBITRARY NUMBER TO ARRIVE AT BASED UPON WHAT SEEMS LIKE, UH, IT, IT'S A REALLY LARGE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT WHO KNOWS WHERE THAT'S GONNA GO AND HOW THAT'S GONNA WORK.
THE PURPOSE OF THESE PROGRAMS IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE ARE FUNDS, BECAUSE PEOPLE WHO GET DISCONNECTED HAVE OVERDUE BILLS, AND THEREFORE THEY'RE NOT PAYING REVENUE INTO THE COMP UTILITY.
SO IT'S A, THESE, THESE CHARITABLE PROGRAMS ARE ESSENTIALLY A REVENUE PROTECTION PROGRAM FOR THE COMPANY.
SO THAT'S WHERE IT GOES, AND IT'S JUST, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO IT IS, THEY'RE PREVENTING FROM BEING DISCONNECTED AS LONG AS THEY END UP WITH CASH.
I MEAN, AS THE COMPANY ENDS UP WITH THE CASH, I MEAN, IT'S GOOD FOR THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T GET DISCONNECTED, BUT IT'S THE, THE LEVEL OF CHARITY IS A LITTLE IFFY.
UM, IF I MAY, COMMISSIONER ZIGGINS AGREES WITH WHAT EVERYONE HAS SAID.
SHE ASKS IF THIS GOES THROUGH, REGARDLESS OF THIS COMMISSION'S PREFERENCES, WOULD WE RECOMMEND DIRECTING THE MONEY BY SHARE TO THE LEGACY AREA THAT THE FUNDS CAME FROM? FOR INSTANCE, THE, THE FUNDS THAT COME IN FROM AUSTIN CUSTOMERS WOULD BE ALLOCATED TO AUSTIN AREA CUSTOMERS AT RISK OF DI DISCONNECTION.
SO, UM, IS ANYONE WANT TO, IT'S A GREAT IDEA ON THAT.
I SEE, UH, COMMISSIONER GARY ONLINE.
I WOULD LIKE, UM, THE GENTLEMAN AT THE PODIUM, I DIDN'T CATCH HIS NAME.
I WOULD LIKE HIM TO RESPOND TO US, TO COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN'S STATEMENT THAT SHE MADE ABOUT WHERE THE MONEY'S GOING TO.
CAN YOU PLEASE, I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM YOU, IF THAT'S CORRECT, IF IT'S NOT, IF YOU CAN PROVIDE CLARITY ON THAT, PERHAPS.
UM, ALLISON, TELL ME WHAT YOU SAID SPECIFICALLY WHAT YOU ASKED SPECIFICALLY.
THE, THE, WHEN THERE IS A DISCONNECT PROGRAM, SUCH AS SHARE THE WARMTH MM-HMM
THE IMPACT OF THAT WHEN YOU KEEP A CUSTOMER FROM BEING DISCONNECTED IS YOU ALLOW THEM TO PAY A BILL THAT IS IN ARREARS SO THAT THE PAYMENT FOR SUCH A PROGRAM ESSENTIALLY PROTECTS THE UTILITIES REVENUES AND, AND LOWERS THEIR, THEIR ARREARAGES.
I CAN'T BELIEVE I JUST SAID THAT WORD, BUT IT'S LEGIT.
I I NEED TO ALSO GO AND LOOK AT THE FILING, BECAUSE UTILITIES TYPICALLY HAVE AN AMOUNT IN RATES CALLED BAD DEBT, WHICH IS REALLY THE SAME THING.
SO BA BASICALLY, WHEN CUSTOMERS DON'T PAY THEIR BILL, THE UTILITIES MADE WHOLE BY INCLUDING IN THEIR COST OF SERVICE OR REVENUE REQUIREMENT AND AMOUNT FOR BAD DEBT.
I'M SURE TGS HAS THAT IN THEIR FILING AS WELL.
I MEAN, I SAY I'M SURE I NEED TO CONFIRM THAT, BUT IT WOULD REALLY SURPRISE ME IF THEY DON'T, I NEED TO SEE HOW THAT INTERACTS WITH THIS, UM, ITEM.
THE, MY GUESS IS THAT THEIR BUDGET FOR BAD DEBT HAS NOT KEPT UP WITH A NUMBER OF TEXANS WHO ARE LOW INCOME AND ENERGY INSECURE.
THAT NUMBER, THE LOW INCOME IS NOW A THIRD OF TEXANS AND ENERGY AND SECURITY IS CLIMBING INTO THE 20 AND 30% RATE IN TERMS OF THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO CANNOT PAY, WHO HAVE TO SACRIFICE PAYING AN ELECTRIC OR GAS BILL OR BUYING GAS RELATIVE.
IF THEY DO THAT, THEY HAVE TO PASS UP ON FIGURE OUT, DOES IT COME OUTTA RENT? DOES IT COME OUTTA MEDICINE? DOES IT COME OUTTA FOOD OR, OR SHOES FOR MY KID? SO, SO THE LEVEL OF ENERGY AND SECURITY IS RISING MUCH FASTER THAN I SUSPECT UTILITY ACCOUNTING REFLECTS, UH, UH, VICE CHAIR ROBINS, I'M SEEING THREE, UH, I'M SORRY.
IS, UH, COMMISSIONER GARY THROUGH, I DON'T WANNA INTERRUPT HER.
COMMISSIONER GARY, DID YOU GET, THANK YOU FOR YOUR RESPONSE.
[00:40:01]
I APPRECIATE IT.I SEE THREE, UH, ISSUES ON THIS, UH, TOPIC THAT, UH, VARIOUS COMMISSIONERS HAVE BROUGHT UP THE NEED FOR ONE-TO-ONE MATCHING FUNDS, THE OPACITY, UH, AND, UH, THE AMOUNT OF MONEY SEEMS NEBULOUS AND THE WISH TO SEND, UH, AUSTIN CONTRIBUTIONS TO AUSTIN CUSTOMERS IN NEED.
UH, AND UNLESS I'M MISSING SOMETHING, THESE SEEM TO BE, UH, WHAT VARIOUS COMMISSIONERS HAVE PROPOSED.
I FIND MERIT IN ALL OF THEM, AND I'M WILLING TO SUPPORT ALL OF THEM.
UH, THE, UH, OPACITY AND AMOUNT OF MONEY MIGHT BE STATED A LITTLE MORE CLEARLY, BUT, UH, I, I SUPPORT THE CONCEPT.
UH, UH, CHAIR DAVIS, DO YOU WANT TO CLARIFY, UH, COMMISSIONER LUKI, DO YOU WANT TO CLARIFY THE, UH, OPACITY AND AMOUNT OF MONEY, THE, THE CONCERN YOU HAVE? UH, I WOULD JUST SAY THAT, UM, AS IT'S NOT CLEAR TODAY TO OUR CITY CONTROLLER'S OFFICE AND OUTSIDE COUNSEL, UM, HOW THE MATCHING WOULD WORK, IF AT ALL, IF, IF THE COMPANY IS PROPOSING TO MATCH THOSE CONTRIBUTIONS, UM, OR IF THIS IS AN AMOUNT UP TO, UM, OR WHAT HAPPENS IF THE VOLUNTARY, UM, CONTRIBUTIONS DO NOT, UH, GO UP TO THAT 2 MILLION, OR WHETHER THE CONTRIBUTIONS MADE IN ONE AREA ARE, UM, YOU KNOW, DESIGNATED FOR THAT SAME AREA OR SOMEPLACE ELSE.
UM, NONE OF THAT IS TRANSPARENT.
SO I THINK JUST TRANSPARENCY ABOUT HOW THAT WHOLE PROGRAM WOULD WORK.
UM, I'M, I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS A, UH, YOU KNOW, WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF A CONSOLIDATION, BUT IT'S A TENFOLD INCREASE, UM, IN THE AMOUNT, UH, THAT THEY'RE SPENDING AND NOW THEY'RE PROPOSING TO RECOVER IT INSTEAD OF HAVE IT, YOU KNOW, HAVING THE, UH, MATCHING COME FROM, FROM SHAREHOLDER FUNDS.
SO, UM, I THINK THOSE, THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT, YOU KNOW, GIVE ME PAUSE ABOUT THAT.
SHALL WE VOTE NON VOTE
I SWITCHED COMMISSIONERS AGAIN.
UM, I WOULD ALSO REQUEST THAT, OR RECOMMEND OR HOPE THAT IF THIS WENT THROUGH, WE ALSO REQUESTED A SPECIFIC, UM, PLAN FOR THE OUTREACH DOLLAR 60 GRAND.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S GONNA BE USED FOR.
AND THOSE OUTREACH PROGRAMS CAN BE KIND OF WISHY-WASHY.
SO IF THAT STAYED IN PLAY, I'D, I'D WANNA SEE A WRITTEN PLAN FOR HOW THEY PLAN TO DEPLOY IT EFFECTIVELY.
UH, SO, UH, SO, OKAY,
SO WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE, UM, THE, AND VICE CHAIR ROBBINS, KEEP ME HONEST HERE.
UM, THE AMOUNT OF, OF DOLLARS, THE $2 MILLION WE, WE FEEL IS EXCESSIVE.
UM, WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE TRANSPARENCY IN HOW THE PROGRAM IS ADMINISTERED AND WHERE THE FUNDS COME FROM.
AND, UM, AND THEN THE, UH, AND THEN THE, WHERE THE DONATIONS, WHERE THEY COME FROM, AND, UH, HOW DO YOU PUT THAT THEY ARE SENT IF AUSTIN DONATIONS ARE SENT TO AUSTIN? AND A CLARIFICATION OF THE OUTREACH BUDGET.
THESE ARE THE FOUR POINTS THAT, AND A SHAREHOLDER MATCH.
WELL, I, I THOUGHT THAT WAS GIVEN, BUT I'M SORRY.
WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE BEING RIGHT FULLY TRANSPARENT ABOUT OUR STATEMENT OF SENTIMENT.
SO HOW DO, HOW DO WE FEEL ABOUT THOSE, THOSE FOUR ITEMS? IS THAT SOMETHING THAT THIS COMMISSION GENERALLY SUPPORTS? MAYBE C YES.
LOOKS LIKE THAT'S A GENERAL SENTIMENT FROM THE RMC.
SHALL WE MOVE TO THE NEXT AREA? UM, UM, IS THERE, DID WE HAVE, UM, DISCUSSION ON THE CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE RESIDENTIAL RATE PILOT PROGRAM, WHICH IS A SIMILAR IN OTHER CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE? UH, I'LL DO THAT IN A SECOND, BUT, UH, I WANTED TO BRING UP ANOTHER POINT FIRST IF I COULD.
[00:45:01]
UH, FULL CAPITAL RECOVERY FEES, UH, OR IN GAS UTILITY LINGO, CAC, WHICH I BELIEVE STANDS FOR LINE EXTENSIONS.WHAT FOR LINE EXTENSIONS FOR, FOR LINE EXTENSION AND HOOKUPS? UH, I BELIEVE CAC STANDS FOR, UH, CONTRIBUTION AND AID OF CONSTRUCTION.
BUT IT, UH, IT'S THE SAME AS AUSTIN ENERGY OR AUSTIN WATER WOULD COLLECT, AND THEY'D CALL IT A CAPITAL RECOVERY FEE.
UH, ACCORDING TO INFORMATION THAT I RECEIVED IN THE LAST RATE CASE, UM, THERE WERE $185 MILLION IN NEW INFRASTRUCTURE, AND 4 MILLION WAS CONTRIBUTED FROM DEVELOPMENT.
UH, THAT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE, UH, LIKE THEY'RE CONTRIBUTING THEIR FAIR SHARE.
AND, UH, I WILL, SOME COMMISSIONERS KNOW THIS, BUT WHEN AUSTIN, UH, ENERGY IMPLEMENTED A FULL CAPITAL RECOVERY FEE, IT ACTUALLY, UH, FOR A PERIOD OF TIME HAD EXPERIENCED A RATE DECREASE.
UH, WE COULD HOPE THAT REPLICATES WITH THE GAS UTILITY, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO TRY IT AND SEE.
SO I WOULD LIKE TO PROPOSE THAT VARIOUS COMMISSIONERS GO ON RECORD SUPPORTING FULL CAPITAL RECOVERY FEES TO LOWER RATES FOR EXISTING CUSTOMERS.
COMMENTS, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN, I, I WOULD LIKE TO SUPPORT AND MODIFY VICE CHAIR ROBBINS RECOMMENDATION THAT WE SEEK, RECOMMEND FULL COST RECOVERY FOR LINE EXTENSIONS AND HOOKUPS AND SEE IF IT IS POSSIBLE TO TAKE THE CAPITAL EXPENDITURE THAT IS COVERED BY CONTRIBUTIONS IN NATIVE CONSTRUCTION AND SEGREGATE THAT WITHIN RATE BASE SO THAT IT IS NOT ELIGIBLE FOR RETURN OF, FOR, FOR PROFIT ON THE RATE BASE.
'CAUSE IF IT'S, UH, IF SOMEBODY ELSE HAS PAID FOR IT AND IT'S NOT THE COMPANY'S CAPITAL AT RISK, THEN THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR IT GETTING A RETURN ON THE INVESTMENT.
UM, AND THAT'S HOW YOU LOWER THE, THAT'S HOW YOU LOWER THE COSTS IS FIRST YOU DON'T BY HAVING THE, THE, THE, THE BENEFICIARY OF THE LINE EXTENSION PAY FOR THE CAPITAL AND THEN NOT BEING ABLE TO CHARGE THE REST OF US FOR THE RETURN CONTACT.
I, I AM FOLLOWING AS WELL AS THE RETURN OF THE CAPITAL.
THAT'S HOW YOU GET YOUR RATE DEC DECREASE.
UH, IS MS. NORTON FOLLOWING MR. BRITO OR MR. BRITO AND MS. NORTON FOLLOWING THIS? YEAH, I GOT IT.
ANY YOU WANT NO RETURN ON PLANT PAID FOR AS SAC? I GOT IT.
UH, COMMISSIONER SCHWARTZ, DID YOU HAVE A SOMETHING TO ADD? QUESTION, COMMENT.
I THINK IT'S BEEN CLARIFIED, BUT THE, THE IDEA THAT THE IDEA, UH, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN IS THAT RIGHT NOW THE CUSTOMER, THE BENEFICIARY OF THE LINE EXTENSION IS PAYING FOR IT, BUT THEY GET A RE RETURN.
ALL OF THE, EXCEPT OUT THE $175 MILLION, ACCORDING TO COMMISSIONER ROBIN'S NUMBERS THAT WAS SPENT ON LINE EXTENSIONS IN I THINK LAST YEAR, ONLY $4 MILLION OF THAT WAS ACTUALLY FUNDED BY AN INDIVIDUAL RECIPIENTS PAYMENTS, LIKE A DEVELOPER WRITING A CHECK THE WAY DEVELOPERS DO TO, TO AUSTIN ENERGY FOR A LINE EXTENSION.
SO THE IDEA IS THAT IF WE MAKE DEVELOPERS PAY FOR THE FULL COST OF A GAS HOOKUP, THEN THEY DON'T HAVE TO RECOVER IT FROM THE CURRENT, THEY DON'T HAVE TO GET IT FROM YOU AND ME.
AND BY THE WAY, THEY DON'T, WE WOULDN'T BE PAYING FOR LINE EXTENSIONS IN EL PASO OR THE RIO GRANDE VALLEY.
I'M NOT SURE, UH, IF THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IF MS. NORTON OR MAYBE MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS CAN SPEAK TO ON THAT.
UM, IT, IT MAKES SENSE TO ME TO HAVE THE DEVELOPERS THAT, YOU KNOW, ARE CAUSING THE NEED FOR A LINE EXTENSION TO COVER THAT COST AS OPPOSED TO SPREADING IT.
THE REST OF EVERYONE ELSE SUBSIDIZING THAT.
BUT I GUESS MY QUESTION IS AROUND AFFORDABILITY.
[00:50:01]
LET'S SAY IT'S A LARGE MULTIFAMILY OR, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING, UM, THAT'S BEING DEVELOPED.DOES THE, THE, YOU KNOW, DOES THAT NEED TO PAY FOR THAT LINE EXTENSION THAT FALLS ON THAT, YOU KNOW, DEVELOPER OF THE NEW, UM, COMPLEX DOES? WHAT IS THE EFFECT ON AFFORDABILITY THERE? MR. BRODO, I'M SURE WILL CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THERE ARE REGULATORY CONVENTIONS FOR WHAT CONSTITUTES A LINE EXTENSION AND WHAT CONSTITUTES A BASIC CAPITAL INVESTMENT.
SO IT'S IN, IN THE ELECTRIC BUSINESS, WE CALL IT HIGHWAY VERSUS BYWAY, OR, YOU KNOW, OR, OR LINE, THINK OF THE LINE LINE EXTENSION IS THE DRIVEWAY TO THE MAIN HOOKUP FOR THE MAIN SET OF PIPES.
AND WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING IS THAT THE DRIVEWAY, EVERYBODY PAY FOR THEIR OWN DRIVEWAY CONSTRUCTION, AND THERE'S A SET OF REGULATORY CONVENTIONS FOR WHAT SHOULD, UNDER ANY OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES, WHAT SHOULD THE UTILITY BE PAYING FOR, AND WHAT SHOULD THE CUSTOMER HOOKUP BE PAYING FOR? DID I GET THAT RIGHT, DOM? YES, YOU DID.
THEY HAVE A, WHAT'S THEY HAVE SERVICE RULES AND REGULATIONS AND EMBEDDED WITHIN THOSE, OR, OR IS A LINE EXTENSION POLICY THAT DOES WHAT MS. SILVERSTEIN SAID? IT SETS OUT WHAT THE, WHAT THE RULES ARE WITH RESPECT TO LINE EXTENSIONS.
AND IT MAY SAY, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU THE, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU BUILD A HOME, THE, YOU, YOU GET YOUR METER AND THE SERVICE LINE THAT GOES TO THE MAIN THAT'S IN THE STREET FOR, I'LL SAY FREE MEANING, MEANING YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY A SAC FOR THAT.
AND THE IDEA IS THAT THE, THE COMPANY WILL COLLECT THAT OVER TIME THROUGH THE REVENUES THAT THAT HOME GENERATES.
UM, BUT IF YOU, IF YOU BUILD A HOUSE THAT'S, YOU KNOW, BEYOND THAT, IF, YOU KNOW, IF YOU, IF YOU HAVE A HOUSE THAT'S, YOU KNOW, 200 YARDS FROM THE MAIN, THEN YOU MIGHT HAVE TO PAY A SAC FOR A PORTION OF THAT LINE EXTENSION.
BUT TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION DIRECTLY, I MEAN, WHEN A DEVELOPER HAS TO PAY THAT, THEN IT'S PASSED ON TO, TO, TO CONSUMERS AND THE PRICE OF THE, THE HOMES THAT THEY'RE SELLING.
UM, SO I MEAN, SO IT, IT HAS AN IMPACT ON AFFORDABILITY.
UM, I WOULD THINK IT WOULD BE RELATIVELY MINOR TO THE OVERALL COST OF A HOME, BUT I DON'T HAVE THOSE NUMBERS IN FRONT OF ME.
COMMISSIONER FARNER, I THINK THAT THE, MAYBE THE IMPORTANT THING IS THAT THERE'S LIKE PARODY BETWEEN AN ELECTRIC HOOKUP AND WHO'S PAYING FOR THAT AND A GAS HOOKUP SO THAT DEVELOPERS AREN'T INCENTIVIZED TO CHOOSE ONE OR THE OTHER BECAUSE ONE UTILITY IS SPREADING THOSE COSTS OUT AMONG OTHER CUSTOMERS AND ONE UTILITY IS NOT.
SO I THINK THAT WOULD BE, LIKE, I THINK THERE IS AN IMPACT ON AFFORDABILITY, BUT I THINK THE MORE IMPORTANT THING IS THAT THERE'S PARITY AMONG, UH, UTILITY SOURCES, WHICH THIS, IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S NOT CURRENTLY COMMISSIONER SCHWARTZ.
YEAH, I WAS JUST GONNA ADD THAT OBVIOUSLY NOT ALL NEW HOMES HAVE GAS, RIGHT? SO IT WOULD ONLY IMPACT, BASICALLY THE EFFECT OF THIS IN THE SYSTEM THAT IT EXISTS IS TO INCENTIVIZE DEVELOPERS TO FREELY ADD GAS TO THEIR, TO EACH HOME IN A LARGE DEVELOPMENT AND NOT RELY ON ELECTRIC SERVICE.
OBVIOUSLY THERE'S TONS OF NEW HOMES COMING UP THAT DON'T HAVE GAS SERVICE, SO THERE WOULD BE NO IMPACT IN THOSE SITUATIONS.
ANY OTHER DISCUSSION OR COMMENTARY QUESTIONS AROUND THIS? THIS ISSUE OF CAPITAL RECO? IT'S CAPITAL RECOVERY OF LINE EXTENSIONS.
SO, UM, CAN I HAVE YOU, UH, ASK YOU COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN TO KIND OF RECAP, RESTATE THE PROPOSITION, RESTATE THE PROPOSITION PLEASE.
UM, WE ARE VOTING ON THE PROPOSITION THAT ALL LINE EXTENSIONS BE FUNDED BY CONTRIBUTION AND AID CONSTRUCTION FROM THE BENEFICIARY, AND THAT ALL CAPITAL THAT IS UNDER CIAC BE SEGREGATED WITHIN RATE BASE AND NOT BE ALLOWED TO EARN A RATE OF RETURN ON THAT PORTION OF RATE BASE FACE.
UH, COMMISSIONER GARY, DO YOU HAVE A COMMENT OR ARE YOU SHOWING A SCENT? SO I'M, I'M JUST GETTING CLARITY.
I THOUGHT THIS WAS A BRIEFING.
MAYBE I CAME IN AT THE UNTIL, UH, THAT WE'RE VOTING.
I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST THE COMPANY'S BRIEFING.
WE'RE GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS OF, YOU KNOW, STATING OUR CONCERNS AND THEN I'M UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY WILL TAKE THAT BACK, BUT THIS IS A VOTE.
IS THAT WHAT I UNDERSTAND? THANK YOU FOR THAT QUESTION.
UM, WE ARE NOT VOTING FORMALLY.
WE'RE JUST GETTING THE, THE TAKING THE TEMPERATURE, GETTING THE SENTIMENT OF THE RMC.
THIS IS NOT GONNA BE A, A FORMAL RECOMMENDATION THAT GOES TO COUNSEL.
[00:55:01]
GIVING INPUT TO STAFF AND OUTSIDE COUNSEL ON, ON THIS RATE CASE, THOUGH.SO THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE HERE TO HEAR, HOW WE FEEL.
SO, UM, THOSE THAT, UH, SUPPORT THE, THE PROPOSITION AS, AS COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN HAS STATED.
THE NEXT ITEM IS THE LEVEL OF APPLIANCE REBATES IN THEIR CONSERVATION PROGRAM.
AS OUR FRIEND, COMMISSIONER ROBBINS HAS TOLD US MULTIPLE TIMES, TGS IS GIVING REBATES THAT ARE SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER THAN, UM, FOR NEW GAS USING APPLIANCES THAN OTHER UTILITIES IN BOTH IN TEXAS AND IN OTHER STATES.
AND I PROPOSE THAT WE ASK FOR THESE REBATES TO BE LOWERED TO SOMETHING THAT IS BOTH MORE REASONABLE AND MORE COST EFFECTIVE DISCUSSION.
UH, THE CHAIR WILL REMEMBER THAT I GAVE A PRESENTATION ON THIS IN 2023 BASED ON A MONTH OF RESEARCH WHERE I SURVEYED, UH, MOST OF THE LARGE GAS UTILITIES IN THE COUNTRY, AND, UH, CAME TO THE DETERMINATION THAT THE REBATE LEVELS WERE WAY HIGH.
THE, UM, AND, UM, THIS WOULD JUST, IF, IF WE HAD GONE WITH NATIONAL LEVELS, UH, THE REBATE, UH, AMOUNTS WOULD BE 58% LOWER IN THAT YEAR THAN WHAT THEY WERE.
SO, UH, JUST ADDING THAT CONTEXT.
DOES ANYONE HAVE A STRONG OPINION ON THE, THE REBATES FOR GAS APPLIANCES? I KNOW MY FRIEND, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS DOES WELL.
UM, I, I SUPPORT THE IDEA OF LIMITING, UH, REBATE AMOUNTS.
UM, AND APPARENTLY, UM, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN DOES, UH, THE REST OF YOU, UH, DONE, UH, COMMISSIONER, UH, ZIG, I'M SORRY, GON ZIN ZIN, UH, OKAY.
SO YOU'RE ON, ON BOARD AS WELL.
UM, GOING BACK TO SOMETHING THAT, UH, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN HAD, UH, BROUGHT UP EARLIER, UH, IS THE PROPOSED CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE PROGRAM.
UH, NOW I'M GONNA DO SOMETHING THAT WILL SHOCK EVERYONE HERE, BUT I'M ACTUALLY GOING TO SAY SOMETHING NICE ABOUT TEXAS GAS SERVICE
I'M, I'M ACTUALLY, UH, QUITE STUNNED AND PLEASED THAT YOU ARE MOVING IN THAT DIRECTION.
HAVING SAID THAT, I HOPE THAT IF THIS IDEA COMES TO FRUITION, UH, THAT YOU'LL USE INCOME VERIFICATION TO DETERMINE, UH, WHO IS ELIGIBLE.
UH, YOU WILL GET, UH, W TWOS OR WHATEVER DOCUMENTATION YOU NEED TO PROVE THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE REALLY POOR.
AND THE REASON I, UH, AM INSISTENT ON THIS IS BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENED WITH AUSTIN ENERGY.
THEY HAVE GONE WITH AUTOMATIC ENROLLMENT FOR THEIR PREDOMINANT, THOUGH NOT TOTAL METHOD, AND IT HAS PRODUCED SOME OUTRAGEOUS RESULTS WHERE PEOPLE LIVING ON MANSIONS WERE GETTING ENROLLED IN, UH, AND BEING GIVEN MONEY MEANT FOR THE POOR.
I AM NOT EXAGGERATING IN THE LEAST.
I WOULD GO TO CITY COUNCIL FOR SIX YEARS STRAIGHT SHOWING THEM PICTURES OF THESE WELL-TO-DO HOMES OR SAYING, HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN? BECAUSE THE COMPUTER WOULD SEARCH OUT SOMEONE WHO, LIKE A CHILD WHO IS ON CHIP OR, UH, A PERSON WHO IS ON FOOD STAMPS, AND THEY WOULD SAY, OKAY, THAT PERSON IS IN THIS MANSION.
[01:00:01]
I SWEAR TO YOU, I FOUND AN 8,100 SQUARE FOOT MANSION ON LAKE AUSTIN, WHOSE OWNER OWNED HALF OF A STEEL MILL, AND THEY HAD AN INDOOR MOVIE THEATER, AND, UH, AND THEY WERE GETTING CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE.AND SO, UH, TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT, I DON'T WANT TEXAS GAS SERVICE TO GO DOWN THAT ROAD.
UH, YOU CAN FIND PLENTY OF GOOD ELIGIBLE POOR PEOPLE THROUGH INCOME VERIFICATION.
THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO DOES THIS.
THEY HAVE A VERY ROBUST PARTICIPATION.
THE CITY OF SACRAMENTO DOES THIS.
THEY HAVE VERY ROBUST PARTICIPATION, AND THAT'S MY PROPOSAL.
UH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS? YES, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.
UM, I DO NOT OBJECT TO INCOME VERIFICATION AT ALL, BUT I WILL POINT OUT THAT THE, UM, FOUR OF THE TEXAS ELECTRIC INVESTOR-OWNED UTILITIES ARE USING A TOOL DEVELOPED BY THE TEXAS ENERGY POVERTY RESEARCH INSTITUTE CALLED TERI, THAT IS, UM, ONLINE AND IT USES, UM, IT'S CALLED E FOUR TX, AND THEY USE IT FOR INCOME LOCATIONAL QUALIFICATION AND VERIFICATION OF LOW INCOME CUSTOMERS TO RECEIVE LOW INCOME RATES AND ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAMS TARGETING LOW INCOME CUSTOMERS.
SO I ENCOURAGE YOU TO ALSO LOOK AT THE E FOUR TX TOOL AS AN OPTION FOR, AS AN ALTERNATIVE HIGH EFFICIENCY WAY TO, TO PROCESS, IDENTIFY AND PROCESS POTENTIAL LOW INCOME CUSTOMERS FOR, UM, FOR A CHARITABLE PROGRAM OR FOR LOW INCOME RATES OR ANYTHING ELSE.
I'M WILLING TO SUPPORT INVESTIGATION OF IT.
I'M NOT FAMILIAR AT ALL WITH THE TOOL.
WE, WE, WE DON'T HAVE TO GO THAT FAR TODAY.
ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS EXPRESS OUR SENTIMENTS.
UH, I I WILL CHIME IN JUST WITH MY OPINION IS I, I DO NOT DOUBT THE, YOU KNOW, THE VERY DETAILED WORK THAT YOU HAVE DONE, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS TO IDENTIFY POTENTIALLY PEOPLE WHO ARE GAMING THE SYSTEM AND EXPLOITING THE SYSTEM.
UM, WHAT I WILL SAY IS I DO NOT SUPPORT, UM, CHANGING A PROGRAM TO MAKE IT MORE ONEROUS FOR EVERYBODY ELSE WHO DOES QUALIFY FOR THAT PROGRAM IN ORDER TO CA YOU KNOW, CATCH A HANDFUL OF PEOPLE WHO ARE CHEATING.
UM, IF IT'S SOMETHING, MAYBE THIS TOOL IS, UM, VERY EFFICIENT AND, AND LOW ENERGY OVERHEAD, UM, FOR THE, THE, THE PEOPLE THAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BENEFIT.
BUT WHAT I DO NOT SUPPORT IS MAKING ADDITIONAL HURDLES, UM, FOR PEOPLE TO WHO ALREADY, YOU KNOW, DO NOT HAVE A LOT OF EXCESS TIME OR MONEY TO PROVE THAT THEY'RE WORTHY OF RECEIVING THIS ASSISTANCE.
UM, CHAIR DAVIS, UM, FIRST, UM, MANY OF THE PEOPLE RECEIVE ON, EVEN ON MANCHIN THAT WERE RECEIVING THIS, SOME OF THEM DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THEY WERE RECEIVING IT.
I, I WOULD NOT SAY THAT MOST OF THEM WERE ACTUALLY GAMING THE SYSTEM OR CHEATING.
NOW YOU COULD SAY ONCE THEY LEARNED, THEY SHOULD HAVE ASKED TO BE UNENROLLED, BUT I'M NOT SAYING THEY'RE CHEATING.
UH, AND REGARDING HURDLES IN CONCEPT, I AGREE WITH YOU, BUT HAVING LOOKED AT SACRAMENTO, HAVING LOOKED AT THE LARGEST PROGRAMS IN THE COUNTRY AND INCLUDING SAN ANTONIO, I DO NOT SEE THE HURDLES THAT YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT.
THEY HAVE, UH, IN, IN MOST OF THESE PLACES, THEY HAVE VERY ROBUST PARTICIPATION WITH, UH, SO, OKAY, SO VICE CHAIR ROBBINS IS, IS YOUR PROPOSAL SIMPLY THAT THERE BE NO AUTOMATIC ENROLLMENT FOR LOW INCOME RATES? CORRECT.
WE DON'T HAVE TO GO ANY FARTHER AND, AND THAT WE INVESTIGATE THE TOOL THAT YOU'VE RECOMMENDED.
AND WHEN YOU SAY NO AUTOMATIC ENROLLMENT, THAT MEANS PEOPLE WILL HAVE TO PROACTIVELY ENROLL IT? IT, I DON'T THINK IT MEANS THAT, FOR INSTANCE, UM, I, MR. BRODO, IS THERE ANYTHING IN THE, THEIR PROPOSAL THAT SPECIFIES HOW THEY RECRUIT CUSTOMERS OR, I'M NOT SURE I NEED TO CONFIRM THAT.
UM, I GENERALLY, MY GUESS IS THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE A CONCERN OR OPPOSITION
[01:05:01]
PROBABLY TO THEIR OWN INCOME VERIFICATION PROGRAM.BUT THAT'S SOMETHING WE CAN EXPLORE.
I MEAN, GENERALLY IT, IT'S WELL ESTABLISHED THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, OPT OUT, YOU KNOW, OPT OUT PROGRAMS ARE MUCH HIGHER ENROLLMENT THAN OPT IN, RIGHT? AND SO IF SOMEONE CAN BE AUTOMATICALLY ENROLLED, I'M, I'M JUST NOT READY TO SUPPORT, UM, YOU KNOW, GETTING RID OF AUTOMATIC ENROLLMENT.
I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT IT TO SAY THAT THAT'S, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I, I WOULD, MAYBE THIS IS AN ISSUE WE SHOULD PASS ON.
WE HAVE, WE HAVE GIVEN THEM A WALK AROUND OUR CONCERNS, I DON'T THINK WE NEED, MAY NOT NEED, NEED TO EXPRESS OUR SENTIMENTS AT THIS TIME.
AND I MAY BE THE ONLY ONE THAT FEELS THAT WAY.
AND WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE, LIKE, YOU KNOW, FULL UNANIMOUS, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT A, AN OFFICIAL VOTE ANYWAY.
BUT I THINK IF THE SENTIMENT IS HERE, THEN THEY CAN HEAR THAT.
YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK THAT LIKE STRIKING A BALANCE BETWEEN, UM, FRICTIONLESS SIGN UP FOR PEOPLE WHO NEED IT AND LIKE SHAMELESS SIGN UP FOR PEOPLE WHO NEED IT, AND ALSO HAVING SOME OVERSIGHT SO THAT PEOPLE WITH WHOM MOVIE THEATERS ARE NOT UNKNOWINGLY GETTING, UH, A BREAK.
YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE'S A WAY TO FIGURE THAT OUT.
AND I'M SURE THAT OTHER UTILITIES HAVE FIGURED IT OUT.
AND YEAH, I, I LIKE THE WAY THAT YOU PUT THAT COMMISSIONER FARMER ABOUT STRIKING THE, THE RIGHT BALANCE THERE.
SO I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE I WOULD, WHERE I WOULD FALL.
SO HOW, IS THIS SENSE OF THE COMMISSION WORDED OR IS IT I I, I THINK WE, WE, WE WALK AWAY FROM IT IS MY RECOMMENDATION.
I, DAVE HAS TO WAKE UP THE LIGHTING SYSTEM.
UM, I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD WALK AWAY FROM IT, COMMISSIONER.
UM, WELL, WHY DON'T, UH, WE'LL ASK FOR MAYBE A, A SHOW OF SUPPORT FOR THE ITEM
UM, WHAT IS IT? IS IT, IS IT, UM, INCOME VERIFICATION? IS THAT THE, THE GIST OF WHAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE SUGGESTING? I WOULD LIKE TO FIND INCOME VERIFICATION FOR AN EASY WHAT TOOL, UH, OR WAY FOR TEXAS GAS SERVICE TO INCOME VERIFY THE, UH, NEW CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE PROGRAM.
WHY DON'T WE CALL IT QUALIFY RATHER THAN INCOME VERIFY, WHICH CAN BE INTERPRETED IN HIGHLY BURDENSOME WAYS.
UM, IF PEOPLE WANNA SHOW SUPPORT FOR THAT.
SHALL WE MOVE ON NEXT, NEXT ISSUE.
AND I DO EVERYTHING SHE TELLS ME.
UM, PRE-APPROVAL OF NEW CAPITAL EXPENDITURES BY CITY.
UH, IT IS MY HUMBLE OPINION THAT ANY, UH, RATE INCREASE IS ALMOST PRE-APPROVED.
IT'S LIKE THE GAS COMPANY SAYS, SAY WE'RE GONNA SPEND THIS MONEY AND THEY JUST GO AHEAD AND SPEND IT.
AND THE CITIES THAT TECHNICALLY GOVERN, UH, THE UTILITY HAVE NO SAY IN THIS.
THE RAILROAD COMMISSION, WHICH SEEMS TO BE A VERY INDUSTRY FRIENDLY VENUE, IS GOING TO APPROVE THE VAST MAJORITY OF IT.
AND IT BECOMES A DEFACTO RATE INCREASE THAT THERE'S NO SAY IN.
AND ONE WAY THAT WE MIGHT DEAL WITH IT IS THAT IN ANY SETTLEMENT THAT OCCURS, UH, THERE'S A PROVISION THAT FUTURE CAPITAL EXPENDITURES THAT ARE GOING TO BE RATE-BASED BE PRE-APPROVED BY THE CITIES INVOLVED.
UM, UM, UH, THERE WAS AN ONLINE OFFLINE DISCUSSION BETWEEN MS. NORTON AND I, UH, DAY OR TWO AGO WHERE SHE SAID, WELL, PAUL, WOULD THAT MAKE US LIABLE? UH, IF WE DIDN'T APPROVE SOMETHING AND THERE WAS AN ACCIDENT? I CANNOT ANSWER THAT.
[01:10:02]
UH, I WOULD THINK NO IF IT WAS DONE RESPONSIBLY.BUT, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT AN ATTORNEY.
WHAT I CAN SAY IS THAT WE NEED TO FIND SOME MECHANISM TO STOP THESE OUTRAGEOUS COSTS BETWEEN 2016 AND THE PROPOSAL THAT IF IT'S APPROVED, THERE WILL HAVE BEEN A 132% INCREASE IN TEXAS GAS SERVICE RATES FOR AUSTIN IN A 10 YEAR PERIOD.
AND THIS HAS JUST GOT TO STOP.
SO MY, MY PROPOSAL, WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT BE CONSIDERED CLUMSY, IS PRE-APPROVAL OF NEW CAPITAL EXPENDITURES BY CITIES.
IS THERE A DISCUSSION ON THAT, ON THAT ITEM? SO THIS IS FOR WHEN THE GAS COMPANY NEEDS, WANTS, OR NEEDS OR PROPOSES TO MAKE A CAPITAL EXPENDITURE, WHICH WILL BE, UH, YOU KNOW, IMPACTING THE RATES THAT THIS, EACH OF THE CITIES IN THE SERVICE AREA, THEY WANNA RAISE RATES $41 MILLION.
WELL, THEY SHOULD HAVE COME TO THE CITIES FIRST AND SAID, WE WANNA SPEND $41 MILLION AND HERE'S WHAT WE WANT TO SPEND IT ON.
CHAIR, VICE CHAIR, ROBBINS, ARE YOU PROPOSING THAT THIS COVER ALL PROPOSED EXPENDITURES OR ONLY PRE-APPROVAL OF CAPITAL EXPENDITURES? UM, I COULD BE CONVINCED FOR ALL, BUT CERTAINLY CAPITAL EXPENDITURES.
WELL, I, THE PURPOSE OF A RATE CASE IS TO TELL YOU, IS TO SIGNAL WHAT THE EXPENDITURES ARE GOING TO BE.
BUT A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THOSE EXPEND OF THE TOTAL RATE CASE AMOUNT IS CAPITAL.
AND, AND SO WHAT I THINK I HEAR YOU ASKING FOR IS, IF YOU'RE GONNA SPEND A TRUCKLOAD ON CAPITAL IN MY AREA, PLEASE TELL ME WHAT YOU'RE GONNA BE DOING AND GIVE ME SOME SENSE OF HOW MUCH IT IS GOING TO BE AND WHAT WE CAN ANTICIPATE ITS RATE IMPACT TO BE.
AND I, I DON'T KNOW IF PRE-APPROVAL IS A BRIDGE TOO FAR AND LEGALLY I DON'T THINK THAT THAT CITIES HAVE AUTHORITY FOR THAT, BUT CERTAINLY SOME KIND OF, OF, IT'S NOT AS THOUGH OUR CITY COUNCIL HAS NOTHING ELSE TO DO.
BUT CERTAINLY IT WOULD BE USEFUL TO GET SOME ADVANCE NOTICE AND, AND JUSTIFICATION FOR HERE IS WHAT WE'RE GONNA SPEND ON CAPITAL IN YOUR AREA.
I WANNA KNOW IF THIS IS A BRIDGE TO NOWHERE WHERE, AND IF IT IS A BRIDGE TO KNOW WHERE I'D LIKE, HONESTLY, I'D LIKE THE CITIES TO HAVE VETO POWER OVER IT.
I THINK THE RAILROAD COMMISSION WOULD HAVE WORDS WITH YOU ON THAT.
BUT
SO MY CONCERNS, AGAIN, AS MS. MR. ROBBINS, UH, POINTED OUT IS THAT MAYBE WE'RE SHIFTING THE LIABILITY TO THE CITY IF SOMETHING DOES HAPPEN AND THE CITY DID NOT PRE-APPROVE THOSE EXPENDITURES.
UH, THE OTHER THING IS WE DO NOT HAVE THE STAFF OR RESOURCES TO BE ABLE TO REVIEW EVERY SINGLE EXPENDITURE, CAPITAL EXPENDITURE THAT COMES TO US.
SO THOSE ARE MY TWO BIG CONCERNS.
WELL, MR. BRODO, DO YOU HAVE MORE TIME TO THAT? SURE.
UM, SO IT'S A LEGITIMATE CONCERN.
UH, YOU KNOW, BASIC REGULATORY POLICY.
ECONOMISTS SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE'S AN INHERENT INCENTIVE FOR A REGULATED ENTITY TO OVER, UH, INVEST IN THEIR SYSTEM 'CAUSE THEY GET A RETURN OR PROFIT ON IT THAT'S REFERRED TO AS GOLD PLATING.
UM, WE'VE SEEN UTILITIES ACROSS THE STATE ON BOTH THE ELECTRIC AND GAS SIDE, UM, HAVE EXTREMELY AMBITIOUS, UM, CAPITAL, UH, INVESTMENT PROGRAMS. UM, YOU'VE GOTTA BALANCE THAT AGAINST THE DESIRE THAT REGULATORS HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, WANT THE UTILITIES TO MEET NEW GROWTH, TO MAINTAIN THEIR SYSTEM SO THAT SERVICE IS RELIABLE AND IN PARTICULAR FOR GAS UTILITY.
SO IT'S SAFE, YOU WANT 'EM REPLACING OLD PIPE, FOR EXAMPLE, CAST IRON, IRON PIPE, THAT SORT OF THING.
[01:15:01]
BASIC REGULATORY THEORY IS, YOU KNOW, RE REGULATORS REGULATE.THEY DON'T OPERATE OR RUN THE UTILITY.
AND WHEN YOU KIND OF DIP YOUR TOE INTO THIS AREA, YOU, YOU'RE SORT OF DOING THAT.
UM, AND SO, SO I JUST KIND OF BRING THAT TO YOUR ATTENTION AS WELL AS THE FACT THAT ANYTHING A CITY DOES CAN BE APPEALED TO THE RAILROAD COMMISSION.
AND SO EVEN IF YOU WERE TO SAY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA DISALLOW CERTAIN PLANT OR TELL YOU THAT YOU CAN'T DO CERTAIN PLANT, IT'S IMMEDIATELY GONNA BE APPEALED AND APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION.
NOW, HAVING SAID ALL THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, WE DO SOME REVIEW OF THE COMPANY'S INVESTED CAPITAL WHEN THEY COME IN, AND WE WILL BE DOING THAT IN THIS CASE, THE COMMISSION STAFF ACTUALLY FOCUSES ON THIS AREA, BUT THEIR SCRUTINY IS, IS PRETTY LIMITED.
IT, IT BASICALLY SAYS, YOU KNOW, SHOW US THE RECEIPT, YOU KNOW, SHOW US THE DOCUMENTATION.
AND IF THEY CAN'T DO THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY DISALLOW, YOU KNOW, SMALL AMOUNTS HISTORICALLY.
UM, SO ANYHOW, THOSE ARE SOME THINGS THAT TO THINK ABOUT, UM, ON THIS ISSUE.
UM, UH, YES, JUST I BELIEVE THAT, UH, MS. NORTON DOES A VERY GOOD JOB WITH VERY SHORT, UH, STAFF.
AND SO I'M NOT INSENSITIVE, BUT IT'S LIKE YOU DON'T HAVE THE STAFF TO RUN A RAPE CASE EITHER, WHICH IS WHY YOU HIRE CONSULTANTS.
SO THAT PARTICULAR PROBLEM THAT YOU'VE IDENTIFIED COULD BE IT'S, IT IS SURMOUNTABLE.
IT IS, UH, YOU CAN GET PAST THAT.
UH, AND AGAIN, I, I CONCEDE TO COMMISSIONERS THAT THIS CAN BE VIEWED AS KIND OF CLUMSY.
AND IF YOU HAVE A BETTER ALTERNATIVE TO REIGN IN THESE OUTRAGEOUS RATE INCREASES, I'LL LISTEN.
THIS IS THE BEST I COULD COME UP WITH, AND I'VE BEEN DOING THIS A WHILE, COMMISSIONER SILVER, IT'S BEEN ACTUALLY DOING IT LONGER THAN ME.
I, I APPRECIATE THE SENTIMENT BEHIND THIS, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I, CONCERNS ME IS THAT EV NOT ALL OF THE CAPITAL COSTS THAT THE GAS COMPANIES SPEND GO THROUGH THE, UH, GENERAL RATE CASE.
ANOTHER HUGE CHUNK OF IT GOES THROUGH THE GRIT PROGRAM.
AND, AND I SUSPECT THAT THAT IS EVEN GREATER THAN WHAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR HERE.
SO I'M, I'M CONCERNED THAT A REQUEST FOR CITY REVIEW AND APPROVAL, EVEN IF IT HAD LEGAL, EVEN IF IT WERE LEGALLY VIABLE, WOULD ONLY PUT A THUMB IN ONE PORTION OF, OF A D**E, WHICH IS WHY THIS SHOULD APPLY TO GRIP AS WELL AS RATE INCREASES.
AND THAT, UH, MS. NORTON COULD HIRE CONSULTANTS SINCE SHE IS LEGITIMATELY SHORT STAFFED.
I, I THINK THE SENTIMENT THAT, I MEAN, I, I CERTAINLY SYMPATHIZE WITH OR, UM, IS THAT THESE EXPENDITURES ARE, YOU KNOW, VERY LARGE, VERY FREQUENT, UM, AND RESULTING IN, IN VERY FAST ACCELERATION OF, OF THE GAS RATES FOR THE RATE PAYERS.
UM, AND SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, SAYING THERE'S A, IF THERE'S A WAY TO, YOU KNOW, TO REIGN THAT IN, AS YOU SAID, UM, I THINK THAT'S THE SENTIMENT THAT I CAN SUPPORT.
UM, I PERSONALLY DON'T THINK I'M THERE WITH ASKING THE CITY TO PRE-APPROVE CAPITAL EXPENDITURES.
I THINK IT'S NOT IN THEIR WHEELHOUSE.
AND YES, THEY CAN HIRE CONSULTANTS EVERY TIME THEY DO THAT.
IT COSTS THE CITY OF AUSTIN, IT COSTS RESIDENTS TAXPAYERS MONEY TO DO THAT AS WELL.
UM, SO, YOU KNOW, WHILE I AGREE WITH TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, REIGN IN SOME OF THAT, I, I DON'T FEEL LIKE I'M IN, IN A POSITION OF EXPERTISE TO SAY HOW, AND, AND THAT THAT SHOULD BE APPROVAL BY THE CITY OF, OF CAPITAL.
IS THERE A DIFFERENT TRADITIONAL WAY THAT THE MUNICIPALITY OR REGULATOR WILL TRY TO PREVENT GOLD PLATING VERSUS PRE-APPROVAL? IS THERE ANOTHER MECHANISM LIKE THAT, THAT THEY WOULD, WOULD TYPICALLY LOOK AT IT? TYPICALLY, YOU WOULD, YOU KNOW, IT SCRUTINIZED THE PLANT INVESTMENT IN A, IN A, IN A RATE CASE, IN A FULL RATE CASE.
UM, I MEAN, PLANT IS SUBJECT TO A PRUDENCE REVIEW.
UM, NOW, AS I'VE SAID HISTORICALLY, THAT SCRUTINY HAS, HAS NOT BEEN VERY RIGOROUS, TO SAY THE
[01:20:01]
LEAST.UM, IT'S JUST VERY DIFFICULT HISTORICALLY FOR, FOR REGULATORS TO SAY, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE PUT THAT PIPE IN THE GROUND.
YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE, YOU KNOW, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE PUT THAT METER IN THE, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU COULD HAVE DONE A, UH, AN RFP THAT GOT YOU CHEAPER METERS, THAT SORT OF THING.
THAT'S, THAT'S A LEVEL OF GRANULARITY THAT JUST DOESN'T EXIST IN, IN REGULATION.
UM, WHICH IS NOT TO SAY YOU THROW UP YOUR HANDS AGAIN.
I MEAN, IT'S A, IT'S A, IT'S A REAL CONCERN.
UH, MAY I, UH, YES, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS, UH, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN, YOUR TIME LIMITED.
HOW MUCH TIME DO YOU HAVE LEFT? 10 MINUTES.
UH, I, I WILL HAVE TO DEFER TO THE CHAIR TO RUN THE MEETING, BUT, UM, IF YOU HAVE A SOLUTION THAT I DON'T, I'M ALL EARS.
OTHERWISE, IN DEFERENCE TO YOUR TIME, UH, I WOULD SUGGEST THAT WE GET A SENSE OF THE COMMISSION.
UH, UM, AGAIN, I, I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY THIS MIGHT BE A NEW CONCEPT FOR SOME PEOPLE.
I'M TRYING TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX.
UH, I'VE, I'VE JUST SEEN THIS GO ON.
THESE RATE INCREASES GO ON TOO LONG.
UM, HAVING SAID THAT, IN THE INTEREST OF TIME, UH, I'D LIKE TO GET A SENTIMENT FROM THE RMC ON, UH, SUPPORT OF ASKING FOR PRE-APPROVAL BY THE CITY OF NEW CAPITAL EXPENDITURES.
UM, MOVING ON, ARE THERE ADDITIONAL ITEMS ON I HAVE, I HAVE NO ADDITIONAL ITEMS. YES, BUT THERE MAY BE, UH, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN SILVERSTEIN, OR OTHERS MAY.
UM, WELL, I, I THANK YOU BOTH, UH, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS FOR WORKING ON THAT FRAMEWORK AND BRINGING THAT ORGANIZED, UH, DISCUSSION TO STEIN.
I THINK IT WAS VERY, UM, PRODUCTIVE.
SO, ONE MORE THING, I'M SORRY.
THIS, THIS COMMISSION HAS, UM, PARTICULARLY UNDER THE CHAMPIONSHIP OF VICE CHAIR ROBBINS, SUGGESTED THAT THIS COMMISSION HOLD THE PUBLIC HEARING IN THE CONTEXT OF THE CITY'S FRANCHISE AGREEMENT WITH DGS.
AND, UM, WE SHOULD NOT LET THAT GO.
AND WE SHOULD KEEP IN MIND THAT, THAT THE POINTS THAT WE HAVE RAISED IN THIS RATE CASE CONVERSATION SHOULD ALSO BE CONSIDERED GERMANE TO THE FRANCHISE DISCUSSION.
SO IT WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR US TO GET FEEDBACK FROM YOU ALL AS THE RATE CASE GOES THROUGH, SO THAT WE CAN FACTOR WHERE YOU ALL ARE GOING WITH THE RATE CASE INTO OUR REQUEST FOR A HEARING AND TIMING OF A HEARING ON THE FRANCHISE.
UM, IS THERE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION, UH, FROM COMMISSIONERS AROUND THE, THE RATE CASE THAT YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT? JUST TO SAY THANK YOU TO MS. NORTON, MR. BRITO, AND YOUR TEAMS FOR ALL THIS WORK? APPRECIATE IT.
[4. Staff briefing on Heat Pump Water Heater Rebates by Hammad Chaudhry, Director, Energy Efficiency Services, Austin Energy.]
US TO ITEM NUMBER FOUR ON OUR AGENDA, WHICH IS THE STAFF BRIEFING ON HEAT PUMP WATER HEATER REBATES BY HAMAD CHADRI.UH, HAM, THE DIRECTOR OF ENERGY EFFICIENCY WITH AUSTIN ENERGY.
COMMISSIONER DAVIS, WHY, UH, CHAIR DAVIS, VICE CHAIR, ROBBINS, AND, AND, AND REST OF THE COMMISSIONERS.
SO, UH, VERY QUICKLY, I WILL BE GIVING A BRIEFING ON, UH, AUS ENERGY'S, UH, REBATES AVAILABLE ON, UH, HEAT FROM WATER HEATERS.
MY, I, UH, MY AGENDA IS TO JUST GO OVER HOW OUR CUSTOMERS CAN GET REBATES FROM US, WHAT CHANNELS THEY ARE AVAILABLE, AND WHAT KIND OF, UM, OPPORTUNITIES AND CHALLENGES WE ARE FACING IN THIS, UH, IMPORTANT SEGMENT.
SO, UM, UH, RIGHT NOW WE HAVE CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF REBATES AVAILABLE FOR HEAT PUMP WATER HEATERS.
UH, ESSENTIALLY WE HAVE VARIOUS DIFFERENT CHANNELS WHERE CUSTOMERS CAN PARTICIPATE AND GET A REBATE FROM US.
UH, TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE FROM US, UH, WE ARE OFFERING ON AVERAGE $800 PER UNIT IN VARIOUS DIFFERENT CHANNELS.
[01:25:01]
REBATE COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE MARKET, WHETHER WHAT OTHER UTILITIES ARE OFFERING.AND I WILL, I WILL TALK ABOUT IT A LITTLE BIT, UH, LATER IN THE PRESENTATION.
SO, ESSENTIALLY, RIGHT NOW, IF YOU'RE A CUSTOMER, IF YOU'RE A RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER, YOU CAN GET REBATE FROM US VIA HOME ENERGY SAVINGS PROGRAM.
YOU CAN GET IT THROUGH THE APPLIANCE EFFICIENCY PROGRAM, OR YOU CAN GET IT THROUGH OUR INSTANT SAVINGS PROGRAM.
IF YOU ARE A COMMERCIAL CUSTOMER, YOU CAN GET SIMILAR E REBATE THROUGH OUR COMMERCIAL PROGRAM.
UH, WE ARE ALSO WORKING ON, UH, INTRODUCING HEAT AND WATER HEATER REBATES IN REVENUE CONSTRUCTION MARKET.
SO IN 2025, WE WORKED WITH HABITAT FOR HUMANITY, AND WE HAD ABOUT 12 HOMES, UH, WITH THE WIFI ENABLED HEAT AND WATER HEATERS INSTALLED.
WE ARE EXPANDING THIS PROGRAM NEXT YEAR, WORKING WITH ONE, UH, BUILDER, UH, DROWSY WILLOW, WHICH IS A SPECIALIZED LOW TO MODERN INCOME, UH, BUILDERS.
AND WE EXPECT THIS PROGRAM TO BE, UM, UH, THIS, THIS OPPORTUNITY TO BE AROUND IN 30 HOMES.
UH, WE ARE ALSO LOOKING INTO MULTIFAMILY MARKET.
UH, THERE ARE SOME CHALLENGES IN MULTIFAMILY MARKET FOR US TO OFFER NEW CONSTRUCTION PROGRAM, UH, IN MULTIFAMILY PRO MARKET.
UH, UH, THERE ARE SOME CHALLENGES WE HAVE IN MULTIFAMILY NEW CONSTRUCTION MARKET, FOR EXAMPLE, A LOT OF COMMUNITIES OR A LOT OF PROPERTIES THAT WE HAVE IN THIS MARKET, 150 TO 200 UNIT PROPERTIES, WHICH BRINGS US, YOU KNOW, FIRST COST, COST CHALLENGES, AS WELL AS HAVING BUILDERS TO, UH, UNDERSTAND MORE ABOUT THIS NEW TECHNOLOGY.
HOWEVER, WE ARE ACTIVELY WORKING ON THINKING ABOUT DIFFERENT WAYS TO ADDRESS THE NEW, UH, MULTIFAMILY NEW CONSTRUCTION MARKET.
UH, NOT EXACTLY HEAT AND WATER HEATERS, BUT JUST STAYING WITH THE WATER HEATER SEGMENT.
UH, WE HAVE A VERY LONG TRADITION OF, UH, OF ADDRESSING WATER HEATERS IN OUR PROGRAMS. FOR EXAMPLE, RIGHT NOW THERE ARE ALMOST 21,000 CONTROLS WE HAVE ON THE WATER HEATERS TIMERS, SUCH THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY, UH, UH, THEY, THEY OPERATE WITHIN THE HOURS OUTSIDE OF THE PEAK, UH, PEAK ZONE BUILDING UPON THAT, WE ARE WORKING WITH THE, UH, WE ARE WORKING WITH DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY'S GRANT, UH, IN A PROGRAM CALLED SMART HOME REWARDS, WHERE ESSENTIALLY WHAT WE ARE DOING IS, UH, OFFERING REBATES TO OUR, TO, TO, TO OUR, UH, BUILDERS AS WELL AS OUR RESIDENTS TO PAIR THEIR WATER HEATER WITH SMART THERMOSTAT.
AND LET US, YOU KNOW, AND ROLL THESE DEVICES INTO THE DEMAND RESPONSE PROGRAM.
SO, NOT EXACTLY HEAT PUMP WATER DATA, BUT IT'S STAYING WITHIN THE, UH, WITHIN THE, UH, THE, THE CATEGORY.
SO ESSENTIALLY, THE PURPOSE OF THIS SLIDE WAS TO SHOW YOU THAT WE DO HAVE QUITE A BIT OF OPPORTUNITY FOR OUR CUSTOMERS TO PARTICIPATE.
HOWEVER, UH, NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.
UH, SO THIS, THIS IS A DIFFICULT MEASURE.
IT'S A, IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT MEASURE FOR US.
IT'S, UH, UH, ONE OF THE IMPORTANT MEASURES TOWARDS BENEFICIAL ELECTRIFICATION, WHICH IS, UH, WHICH IS ONE OF THE KEY COMPONENTS OF OUR RESOURCE GENERATION PLAN.
SO WE FULLY UNDERSTAND HOW IMPORTANT THIS MEASURE IS.
HOWEVER, THIS IS A DIFFICULT MEASURE FROM THE PARTICIPATION STANDPOINT.
IF YOU CAN SEE IN 2024 AND 25, WE HAD FAIRLY LIGHT PARTICIPATION ABOUT 162 UNITS ACROSS, UH, DIFFERENT SEGMENTS, UH, WHY IT'S HAPPENING.
FIRST, YOU KNOW, THE COST BARRIER, HEAT PUMP WATER HEATERS ARE MORE COSTLY THEN, UH, THEIR, THEIR, UH, ELECTRIC RESISTANCE PEER PEERS.
THAT'S, THAT'S ONE, ONE MAIN ISSUE.
OTHER THING IS THAT TECHNOLOGY IS A NEW TECHNOLOGY.
GETTING, YOU KNOW, CUSTOMERS AS WELL AS CONTRACTORS TO EDUCATE ABOUT THEM, ABOUT THESE, UH, MEASURES IS, UH, IS A CHALLENGE.
ABOUT 65% OF OUR SERVICE TERRITORY, OR OUR, OUR SINGLE FAMILY HOMES ARE HEATED WITH GAS OR HAVE GAS, GAS HEATING.
UM, AND WATER HEATERS HAVE A NASTY HABIT OF GOING DOWN ON THE DAY WHEN YOU DON'T EXPECT THEM, LIKE THE DAY BEFORE THANKSGIVING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
SO GENERALLY, CUSTOMERS DO PREFER, UH, LIKE, FOR LIKE REPLACEMENT, OR THEY NEED TO GET THE THINGS DONE RIGHT AWAY, WHICH IS ANOTHER BARRIER TOWARDS HAVING HEAT AND WATER HEATERS AVAILABLE.
HOWEVER, HAVING SAID THAT, WE HAVE, UH, UH, OPPORTUNITIES AVAILABLE FOR OUR CUSTOMERS, AND WE ARE CONTINUE TO EXPAND THIS, UH, THIS, UH, MEASURE WITH THAT.
ANY QUESTIONS? I KNOW I WENT REAL FAST.
THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION.
UH, QUESTIONS FROM COMMISSIONER? YES, COMMISSIONER SILVERSTEIN.
MR. CHARE, DO YOU HAVE A SENSE OF HOW BIG A REBATE FOR A HEAT PUMP WATER HEATER WOULD HAVE TO BE TO OVERCOME THE EXTRAORDINARY LEVEL OF INCENTIVES THAT OUR FRIENDS AT THE GAS COMPANIES ARE GIVING OUT FOR, FOR INSTANT TANKLESS WATER HEATERS? SO, UH, YES.
UH, UH, UH, COMMISSION SERVICE, AND EXCELLENT QUESTION SETTING.
THE RE REBATE IS NOT EXACTLY A SCIENCE, IT'S ART AND SCIENCE.
WE TRY TO SET THE REBATE, WHICH WE BELIEVE WILL MOVE THE MARKET.
HOWEVER, WE ALSO HAVE BARRIERS TO OUR OVERALL BUDGET WITH OTHER PROGRAMS AND WHAT HAVE YOU.
UH, SO TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, THE WAY I WILL ANSWER IS THAT RIGHT NOW WE ARE AT $800 PER UNIT, AS I SHOWED IN THE
[01:30:01]
SLIDE TWO.I KNOW THAT IT'S MUCH HIGHER COMPARED TO A LOT OF OTHER REGIONAL AND NATIONAL PROGRAMS. UH, HOW HIGH DO WE GO? THAT'S, UM, UH, THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S A CONSTRAINT QUESTION, LIKE LEVEL CONSTRAINTS WITH THE BUDGET AND OTHER THINGS.
SO IT'S HARD FOR ME TO SAY, WHAT IS THE RIGHT NUMBER THAT WILL MAKE PEOPLE MOVE TOWARDS, UH, HOT WATER, HOT HEAT PUMP WATER HEATER ALTOGETHER? UM, CONSIDERING THAT, UM, HEAT PUMP WATER HEATERS ARE SIGNIFICANTLY MORE WATER EFFICIENT THAN TANKLESS WATER HEATERS, GIVEN HOW LONG YOU HAVE TO RUN A TANKLESS, THE WATER FOR A TANKLESS WATER HEATER TO GIVE YOU HOT WATER.
UM, HAVE WE LOOKED AT GETTING SUBSIDY MONEY, INCENTIVE MONEY SHARED WITH OUR FRIENDS AT AUSTIN WATER FOR, FOR TANKLESS WATER, FOR FOR HEAT PUMP WATER HEATERS, RIGHT? SO, SO IF THERE ARE WATER SAVINGS, WHICH DEFINITELY SHOULD WORK WITH OTHER FRIENDS AT OXYGEN WATER, WE CAN DEFINITELY TAKE THAT INTO ADVISEMENT AND LOOK INTO THE MATH.
UH, YOU HAVE TO HAVE WATER SAVINGS, RIGHT? FOR, FOR, FOR WATER, UM, UM, REBATE IF YOU WILL.
IN THIS CASE, WE ARE BASICALLY USING THE SAME AMOUNT OF WATER.
WE ARE JUST HEATING IT MORE EFFICIENTLY.
HOWEVER, WE CAN DEFINITELY TAKE A LOOK INTO IT.
WELL, YOU, WE ARE USING, WE ARE WASTING A LOT OF WATER, GETTING TO THE HOT WATER FROM A TANKLESS WATER HEATER.
AND, AND SO THAT, AND I DON'T THINK THAT THAT AUSTIN WATER HAS YET PUT ANY NUMBERS AROUND THAT.
BUT I CAN TELL YOU FROM MY EXPERIENCE AND CHAIR DAVIS', THAT IT'S A HELL OF A LOT OF WATER.
UM, AND, AND IT IS PROBABLY WORTHWHILE.
AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE CONSIDERATIONS WHEN I LOOKED AT THE TEXAS GAS SERVICE TANKLESS WATER HEATER IN SENATE PROPOSALS.
I WAS APPALLED BECAUSE THEY JUST WANNA MOVE MORE GAS MM-HMM
UM, SO ANYWAY, JUST A THOUGHT.
AND ONE OTHER BARRIER TO YOUR POINT ABOUT WHAT IS THE RIGHT INCENTIVE LEVEL, THERE IS ANOTHER BARRIER ON THE, IN THE RETROFIT MARKET, THE SIZE OF HEAT AND WATER HEATERS IS A CONSIDERABLE BARRIER WHEN YOU ARE, UH, REPLACING IT IN, UH, UH, WHEN YOU'RE REPLACING IT, THE UTE CLAUSES OR THE WATER HEATER CLAUSES ARE NOT GENERALLY DESIGNED TO HOST THESE WATER HEATERS, WHICH ARE GENERALLY LARGER IN SIZE, WHICH IS WHY IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO MOVE IT INTO NEW CONSTRUCTION RATHER THAN THE, THE REPLACEMENT MARKET.
AND THAT'S, TO THAT POINT, WE HAVE WORKED ON A PILOT WITH HABITAT FOR HUMANITY.
WE ARE EXPANDING IT WITH DROWSY WILLOW, UM, A HOME BUILDER, AND WE EXPECT IT TO BE SUCCESSFUL AND CONTINUE TO GROW.
DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT IT NORMALLY COSTS TO TRANSITION A, UM, NATURAL GAS WATER HEATER INTO A, INTO A, INTO ONE OF THESE UNITS IN A RESIDENCE? UH, YEAH.
SO IN THE RETROFIT MARKET, IT, I DON'T HAVE THE NUMBER ON TOP OF MY HEAD.
IT IS, IT'S DEFINITELY A COUPLE OF THOUSAND OF DOLLARS WE CAN DEFINITELY GET BACK WITH YOU TO YOU WITH, WITH, UH, WITH A MORE PRECISE FIGURE.
IT'S A LOT MORE THAN A COUPLE OF THOUSAND DOLLARS.
THERE'S THE RUNNING THE ELECTRICAL LINE, AND THEN THERE'S ALSO REPLACING THE UNIT ITSELF.
AND THE SYSTEMS ARE REALLY EXPENSIVE, AND THIS $800 REBATE IS NOT VERY MUCH COMPARED TO THE TOTAL.
AND, UM, APPARENTLY THE, UM, REBATES FROM THE, THE TAX CREDIT THAT YOU GET FROM THE, UH, INFLATION REDUCTION ACTOR BEING ELIMINATED.
SO THAT WAS $3,200 IF YOU ADDED THOSE TWO THINGS TOGETHER.
AND THAT STILL DIDN'T DRIVE THE NEEDLE VERY FAR, BECAUSE WHEN I WAS LOOKING AT IT, IT WAS LIKE 10 OR $12,000 TO DO THIS.
IS THAT FOR A RETROFIT COMMISSIONER LUKI? CORRECT.
NOW, PLUMBING COMPANIES ARE EXTRAORDINARILY EXPENSIVE THESE DAYS TOO, BY THE WAY.
UH, COMMISSIONER FARM, THAT'S WHO'S DOING THAT? COMMISSIONER FARMER THERE, THERE ARE, THERE'S A COUPLE OF MODELS THAT JUST CAME ONLINE THAT ARE A PLUGIN, SO DON'T REQUIRE THE WIRING, BUT THAT AT LEAST REDUCED SOME PART OF THE COST.
UM, SO YOU CAN PLUG IT INTO A ONE 20, UM, SO THAT, THAT'S $3,000 BY ITSELF JUST TO RUN THE LINE.
YEAH, THE ELECTRICAL, BUT STILL, YOU STILL GOT A PRETTY BIG DELTA THOUGH,
UM, SO ALL OF THE UNITS THAT YOU'RE INSTALLING ARE WIFI ENABLED, RIGHT? WHICH IS MY ASSUMPTION IS THAT THERE ARE PLANS TO DO, UH, LAKE LOAD SHIFTING WITH THOSE.
IS THAT SORT OF OUTSIDE OF THE PURVIEW OF THIS PROGRAM AND THAT'S
[01:35:01]
MORE LIKE A DER PRESENTATION OR CAN YOU SPEAK TO LIKE, LIKE ARE THOSE HABITAT HOMES ACTIVELY IN A LOAD SHIFTING PROGRAM CURRENTLY? YEAH.THE 12 UNITS WE INSTALLED WITH THE HABITAT FOR HUMANITY IN THE, UH, NEW CONSTRUCTION, UH, SEGMENT, THEY ARE WIFI ENABLED.
WHETHER THEY ARE ENROLLED IN THE DR I'M NOT SURE, BUT THE REASON WE MADE SURE THAT IT'S, UM, UH, THE UNITS ARE WIFI ENABLED IS TO HAVE THEM DR.
HOWEVER, JUST QUICK POINT THAT HEAT PUMP WATER HEATERS ARE GENERALLY VERY, VERY EFFICIENT.
SO WITH THE EFFICIENCY COMES VERY LITTLE OPPORTUNITY TO PEAK, TO, TO SHAVE THE PEAK.
THAT SOME, SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT THERE.
THAT'S HOW WE GENERALLY TRY TO GET THE, UH, RESISTANCE WATER HEATERS MORE IN, IN OUR DEMAND RESPONSE PROGRAM THROUGH DIFFERENT KIND OF CONTROLLERS.
AND I ALSO COMMENT, I KNOW WE, IT EITHER ON THIS COMMISSION OR THE JSC, UM, REALLY PUSHED TO HAVE BUILDING CODES, UM, MODIFIED TO, TO INCLUDE ELECTRIC READY IN NEW CONSTRUCTION SO THAT YOU WOULD ALREADY HAVE THE WIRING IN THE SPACE THAT WOULD BE NEEDED TO, TO PUT, AND, AND THAT WAY YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH A LOT OF THAT EXPENSE FOR THE, FOR THE RETROFIT.
UM, YEAH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS, UM, I APOLOGIZE IF I DID NOT SEE IT IN THE MATERIAL YOU PREPARED, BUT THERE IS GONNA BE A NEW CONSTRUCTION PROGRAM NEXT YEAR.
UH, YES, UH, UH, UH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS, WE PILOTED A NEW CONSTRUCTION SINGLE FAMILY PROGRAM, OR, OR AN OPPORTUNITY FOR, UH, IN 2025 WITH HABITAT, HABITAT FOR HUMANITY 12 HOMES.
WE ARE EXPANDING THAT IN 2026 WITH ANOTHER BUILDER THAT IS, UM, A SPECIALIZED LOW TO MODERN INCOME BUILDER.
SO WE, UH, IT'LL BE 30 NEW HOMES WHERE WE WILL BE, UH, WORKING WITH THE BUILDER TO INSTALL HEAT FROM WATER HEATERS.
WELL, I'M SORRY, IN 2026 NEXT YEAR? YES.
THERE'S GOING TO BE ONLY 30, IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID? I'M, YEAH.
WE ARE WORKING WITH ONE BUILDER WHO'S BUILDING THESE 30 HOMES.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THIS JUST ISN'T OFFERED TO ALL THE BUILDERS OUT THERE.
I I MEAN, THIS ISN'T NOT A NEW TECHNOLOGY, UH, UH, IF IT'S COMES PRE-WIRED, THERE SHOULDN'T BE, UH, AN EXORBITANT COST, UH, FOR NEW BUILDINGS.
I, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THERE'S NOT GONNA BE 500 OR A THOUSAND OF THEM NEXT YEAR.
SO RIGHT NOW THERE IS THIS ONE BUILDER WHO'S WILLING TO, TO WORK WITH US.
OUR TEAM IS WORKING WITH DIFFERENT BUILDERS.
WE HAVE BEEN, UH, IN TOUCH BUILDERS ALSO NEEDS TO AGREE TO, TO TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY THROUGH THIS ONE, ONE BUILDER WITH, UH, ADDITIONAL PROGRAM, UH, PARTICIPATION.
WE WILL BE ABLE TO, IN MY OPINION, CONVINCE FURTHER BUILDERS AND CONTINUE TO GROW THE PROGRAM.
UH, IT'S NOT LIKE WE ARE NOT ASKING PEOPLE, IT'S, WE ARE TRYING TO WORK WITH THE BUILDERS AND THIS ONE BUILDER IS WILLING TO WORK WITH US.
SO I GUESS I'M, I THINK MAYBE THERE'S, SO THE, THE HABITAT PROJECT, I WAS THE ARCHITECT ON THAT PROJECT AND ON THE JAZZ PROJECT, SO THEY GOT THE HEAT PUMPER HEATERS DONATED, RIGHT? SO I THINK THERE'S THE $800 REBATE IS ONE THING.
AND THEN THERE'S THIS PROJECT WHERE THEY'RE GIVING HEAT PUMPER HEATERS TO LIKE LOW INCOME HOUSING PROJECTS.
AND SO LIKE THE 50 HEAT PUMPER HEATERS THAT'RE GONNA DRAWS WILLOW ARE BEING GIVEN TO THE PROJECT.
SO IT'S, THERE'S LIKE TWO SEPARATE THINGS.
BUT DO YOU, IS THAT, IS THAT ACCURATE? IN JOSSY WILLOW? WE ARE ACTUALLY OFFERING BUILDER INCENTIVE AS PART OF VARIOUS DIFFERENT PACKAGES.
WE ARE OFFERING BUILDERS TO GO, UH, A SPACE AND WATER HEATING ELECTRIFIED.
SO NO, IN DROWSY WILLOW CASE, NO.
THIS IS WHERE WE ARE OFFERING AN INCENTIVE FOR THEM TO BRING IN WATER HEATERS.
SO, OKAY, SO THE, SO YOU GAVE THEM TO HABITAT, BUT THEN YEAH, WILLOW IS A PILOT FOR THE 800.
IT'S A PILOT WHERE WE HAVE COUPLE OF DIFFERENT WAYS.
WE ARE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE MARKET TO WORK WITH THE BUILDERS TO ELECTRIFY THE NEW CONSTRUCTION, UH, UH, END USERS.
UH, AND, AND IN THIS CASE, YOU KNOW, UH, UH, HEAT PUMP, WATER HEAT IS ONE OF THOSE.
I GUESS I MAY ECHO COMMISSIONER ROBIN'S SENTIMENT THAT WHY IS THIS NOT A REBATE THAT CAN BE ANYBODY BUILDING A NEW HOME CAN USE? I WILL CHECK WITH MY TEAM RIGHT NOW.
WE ARE, WE ARE WORKING WITH ONE BUILDER.
UH, WE ARE DEFINITELY, UH, BUDGET CONSTRAINTS AS WELL.
SO WE HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT DIFFERENT PROGRAMS. I WILL GET BACK WITH YOU ON THE, UH, LATER WITH THE, WITH THE COMMISSION AFTER CHECKING WITH THE TEAM AS TO HOW WE
[01:40:01]
ARE THINKING ABOUT, UH, DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT BUILDERS OTHER THAN THIS ONE BUILDER.I THINK ALSO JUST, UH, SOME, SOME, YOU KNOW, IDEA ON THE METRICS OF WHAT THE SUCCESS OF THE PILOT LOOKS LIKE AND THEN WHAT, YOU KNOW, HOW THAT WOULD BE EXPANDED, UM, ASSUMING IT'S, IT'S SUCCESSFUL.
YEAH, I GUESS ONE OTHER THING WAS JUST LIKE WITH THE NEW CODE COMING IN, WHICH IS GONNA REQUIRE ELECTRIC READY, I DON'T KNOW IF YOUR, YOUR TEAM WOULD BE TRACKING THIS OR THAT WOULD BE LIKE HEIDI'S TEAM, BUT I THINK THAT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE LIKE HOW MANY, WHAT IF THERE'S LIKE A PERCENTAGE OF BUILDERS PRIOR TO THE CODE CHANGE THAT ARE PUTTING IN HEA ARE HERE AND AFTER THE CODE CHANGE THAT ARE PUTTING ANY UP WATER HEATERS.
SO IF THERE'S LIKE A, IF THERE'S AN AMOUNT OF ADOPTION INCREASE THAT ISN'T USING YOUR REBATE, THAT'S JUST COMING FROM THE CODE SHIFT, UM, I, I DON'T KNOW HOW WHO WOULD THAT, THAT WOULD BE INTERESTING DATA TO SEE IF SOMEBODY COULD PUT THAT TOGETHER FOR US.
SO, UH, IF I UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION CORRECTLY, WE WANT, UH, YOU WOULD LIKE US TO DO SOME ANALYSIS TO SHOW YOU ONCE THAT NEW CODE IS EFFECTIVE JULY, 2025.
HOW MANY BUILDERS ARE STILL GETTING IN THE HEAT WATER? I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION.
LIKE, SO IN JUNE, IF I WAS BUILDING A NEW HOME, I WOULD, I COULD, I DID NOT HAVE TO LEAVE SPACE FOR A HEAT PUMP, POP WATER HEATER ON MY FLOOR PLAN.
I DIDN'T HAVE TO PRE-WIRE FOR IT IF I WAS BUILDING IT.
NOW I DO HAVE TO DO THOSE THINGS, RIGHT? SO I, I THINK IT'D BE GOOD DATA TO UNDERSTAND IF THERE ARE MORE HEAT AND WATER HEATERS GETTING INSTALLED IN JULY THAN IN JUNE.
LIKE, IT'S NOT A REQUIREMENT BY THE CODE TO INSTALL A HEAT PUMP WATER HEATER.
IT'S JUST A REQUIREMENT TO HAVE SPACE FOR ONE.
BUT IS THAT SPACE REQUIREMENT CAUSING A SHIFT TOWARDS HE WATER HEATERS? WE CAN DEFINITELY LOOK INTO IF WE, THAT'S LIKE A THING FOR LIKE A YEAR OR TWO FROM NOW, BUT IT WOULD JUST BE SOMETHING THAT LIKE WOULD NEED TO BE TRACKED.
YEAH, WE CAN DEFINITELY LOOK INTO WHAT KIND OF INFORMATION WE HAVE AND IF WE CAN DO THIS KIND OF ANALYSIS OR TRACKING.
UM, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. CHARI ON HEAT PUMPS? I JUST WANNA MAKE A VERY BRIEF COMMENT THAT THERE'S THOUSANDS OF HOMES THAT ARE HOMES AND APARTMENTS THAT ARE BUILT EVERY YEAR.
AND, UM, WE'RE LOSING AN OPPORTUNITY.
[5. Staff briefing on Home Energy Savings by Hammad Chaudhry, Director, Energy Efficiency Services, Austin Energy.]
TRRY CAN STAY UP FOR OUR NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA, WHICH IS THE STAFF BRIEFING ON HOME ENERGY SAVINGS.UH, CHAIR, UH, DAVIS, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS, AND, UM, COMMISSIONERS.
UH, RIGHT NOW I'M SWITCHING GEARS.
WE'LL BE DISCUSSING, UH, BY GIVING A QUICK BRIEFING ON OUR, UH, HOME ENERGY SAVINGS PROGRAM.
SO, HOME ENERGY SAVINGS PROGRAM IS OUR WHOLE HOUSE APPROACH WHERE WE ARE HELPING OUR CUSTOMERS BECOME ENERGY EFFICIENT BY LOOKING AT THE WHOLE HOUSE.
UH, AS, AS A, AS A SYSTEM OF COMPONENTS WE HAVE, UH, IN, WE, WE HELP OUR, UH, OUR CUSTOMERS TO BECOME ENERGY EFFICIENT VIA DIFFERENT MEASURES IN HOME ENERGY SAVINGS, UH, REPLACING OR, UH, REPLACING HVAC SYSTEM OR TUNING UP THE HVAC SYSTEM, REPLACING OR REPAIRING THE DUCT WORK, AIR SEALING, INSTALLING SOLAR SCREENS, ATTIC, CANULATION, UH, UH, WEATHER, WEATHERIZING THE DOORS, AND THEN WHAT HAVE YOU.
SO ESSENTIALLY A WHOLE HOUSE APPROACH.
THE PROGRAM, UH, OFFERS APPROXIMATELY ON AVERAGE OF $2,600 IN INCENTIVE.
WE ALSO HAVE, UM, UH, LOW INTEREST RATE LOANS AVAILABLE FOR OUR CUSTOMERS.
UH, THIS IS A MARKET RATE PROGRAM, MEANING ESSENTIALLY THIS IS A PROGRAM WHERE CUSTOMERS HAVE, UH, TO PARTICIPATE AND THEY, THEY HAVE TO HAVE A COPAY.
THE WAY PROGRAM WORKS IS ESSENTIALLY OF A, CUS YOU HAVE TO BE OUR CUSTOMERS AND A CUSTOMER OF COURSE.
AND THEN HOME, UH, SHOULD BE AT LEAST 10 YEARS OR OLDER.
UH, THIS WAY, YOU KNOW, WE CAN, UH, UH, WE CAN ADDRESS ENERGY EFFICIENCY OPPORTUNITIES AND NEWER THE HOME IS, UH, THE, THE LESSER THE OPPORTUNITY THERE.
THAT'S WHY WE HAVE A 10 YEAR THRESHOLD, WHICH IS VERY SIMILAR TO THE REST OF THE COUNTRY.
UH, CUSTOMERS GO ON TO OUR WEBSITE, THEY SELECT A CONTRACTOR OF THEIR CHOICE.
UH, AND FROM THERE THE PROCESS BEGINS.
UH, WE HAVE, UH, AN ASSESSMENT OPPORTUNITY FOR OUR CUSTOMERS WHERE OUR TEAM, OUR ENERGY TEAM, OUR FIELD STAFF GOES INTO, GOES INTO THE CUSTOMER'S HOME AND KIND OF DO ANY SCOPING STUDY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT KIND OF OPPORTUNITIES THERE ARE, EDUCATE CUSTOMER, HOW TO TALK TO, YOU KNOW, WHAT KIND OF OPPORTUNITIES THERE ARE.
SO THEY'RE WELL PREPARED WHEN THE CONTRACTOR COMES IN AND ESSENTIALLY CON THEY SELECT THE CONTRACTOR, A PROJECT HAPPENS, WE VERIFY THE WORK, AND THEN ESSENTIALLY PROJECT IS COMPLETED BY ISSUING THE REBATE PAYMENT.
SO THAT'S KIND OF, YOU KNOW, VERY QUICK.
OVERALL, HOME ENERGY SAVINGS, UH,
[01:45:01]
IS A VERY SUCCESSFUL PROGRAM FOR US AT LEAST.UM, UM, FROM THE CUSTOMER SATISFACTION STANDPOINT, WE HAVE EXPERIENCED ALMOST 90% CUSTOMER SATISFACTION THROUGH VARIOUS SURVEYS OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS.
UH, VERY RECENTLY WE BROUGHT IN IN-HOME ASSESSMENT IN-HOME SCOPING, WHICH IS QUITE POPULAR.
THIS IS WHERE OUR FIELD STAFF IS GOING INTO THE HOMES.
AND, AND AS I, AS I ALLUDED TO FINDING THE OPPORTUNITIES, EDUCATING CUSTOMERS, WE PERFORMED ABOUT 330 ASSESSMENTS LAST YEAR ALONE.
UH, OVER THE LAST, UH, THREE OR FOUR YEARS, WE HAVE INCREASED OUR INCENTIVE TO THE POINT JUNE OF 35% BACK IN 20 21, 22, THE AVERAGE INCENTIVE USED TO BE AROUND $2,000 PER HOME.
SO KIND OF, YOU KNOW, A SUCCESSFUL PROGRAM.
HOWEVER, THE PROGRAM DEFINITELY HAS ITS OWN CHALLENGES.
UH, AS CHAIR ROBBINS, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS HAS ALLUDED TO QUITE A FEW TIMES, AND I'M GONNA ADDRESS SOME OF THESE CHALLENGES AND WE CAN HAVE SOME GOOD DISCUSSION.
UH, THE, THE, THE, THE MAIN CHALLENGE THAT WE ARE FA UH, FACING IS DWINDLING DOWN PARTICIPATION INTO THE PROGRAM WITH THE HIGH OF FOUR 15 FY 22.
ACTUALLY, BACK IN 2020, WE HAD, UH, AROUND 500 HOMES A YEAR.
UH, SO FOR THE LAST FIVE YEARS, WE ARE SEEING THE CONSISTENT DROP IN THE PARTICIPATION, UH, WHICH, WHICH IS ONE OF THE CHALLENGES.
UH, THE REASON FOR THIS CHALLENGE IS ESSENTIALLY, YOU KNOW, UH, ESSENTIALLY THE, THE PROGRAM IS BECOMING VERY EXPENSIVE.
UH, UH, THE, THE INSTALLATION COST, UH, IS BECOMING EXPENSIVE AS WE ALL KNOW.
THE INFLATION, THE MARKET MARKET EFFECTS, UH, MARKET MARKET EFFECTS AND, AND WHAT HAVE YOU.
WE HAVE, UH, WE HAVE, WE ARE ALMOST, UH, UM, EXPERIENCING 30% INCREASE IN PROJECT COST.
UH, JUST LOOKING, LOOKING AT THE ABSOLUTE NUMBERS ON AVERAGE, THESE COST, THESE PROJECTS NOW COST AROUND $18,000 WITH AS I AS $30,000 PROJECTS THAT WE HAVE SEEN WITH ALL THE WORK BECAUSE, UH, UH, BECAUSE SINCE, YOU KNOW, WE ARE LOOKING AT WHOLE HOUSE APPROACH, UH, TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PRO, PARTICIPATE INTO THIS PROGRAM, CUSTOMER MUST DO AT LEAST THREE MEASURES.
ONE MEASURE MUST BE, UH, COMPLETE AIR CEILING.
SO THESE, THESE THINGS CAN COST THAT THE COST CAN ADD UP VERY FAIRLY QUICKLY.
UM, TEXAS GAS SERVICE, UH, INCENTIVES THAT USED TO, IT'S THE WHOLE HOUSE PROGRAM, HEATING AND COOLING.
THERE USED TO BE INCENTIVES FROM TEXAS GAS SERVICE, WHICH ARE NO LONGER THERE.
SO THAT'S ANOTHER CHALLENGE IS KIND OF, YOU KNOW, AFFECTING THE CUSTOMER ECONOMICS ON THEIR COPAY.
UH, THEN THERE ARE PROGRAM DESIGN CHANGES.
UM, TO CHAIR ROBIN'S POINT, BACK IN 2014, WE HAD PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST SUCCESSFUL PROGRAMS IN THE HISTORY WHERE WE HAD THOUSANDS OF HOME PARTICIPATED IN THIS PROGRAM.
BUT AT THAT TIME, WE HAD BLOCK GRANT OF $10 MILLION AND A TARGET OF 4,000 HOMES.
SINCE THEN, THAT BLOCK GRANT IS GONE.
AND OVER THE TIME THE PROGRAM REQUIREMENTS HAVE CHANGED, WE FOLLOW THE ENERGY STAR MODEL WHERE THE REQUIREMENTS ARE BASED UPON FOLLOWING, UH, BPI PROTOCOLS, NATIONAL CONFRONT INSTITUTE PROTOCOLS FOLLOWING, UH, A CCA, THE, UH, THE, THE, THE AIR CONDITIONING ASSOCIATION MANUAL D AND MANUAL J PROTOCOLS.
SO ALL OF THAT TOGETHER, THE PROGRAM DESIGN CHALLENGES ARE THERE.
AND THEN FINALLY, ECONOMIC UNCERTAINTY.
AS I ALLUDED TO THE PROJECT COSTS ARE GOING, GOING UP AND UP.
IT'S, YOU KNOW, THE WAY ECONOMICS WORK.
AND THIS IS A MARKETED PROGRAM WHERE CUSTOMERS HAVE TO, UH, HAVE TO HAVE CERTAIN, UH, COPAY, UH, FOR, UH, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.
SO, VERY QUICKLY, HOW WE ARE TRYING TO ADDRESS THESE CHALLENGES, DEFINITELY THROUGH A COLLABORATIVE APPROACH.
BACK IN NOVEMBER OF 2022, UH, AUSTIN ENERGY TEAM MET WITH THE CONTRACTORS, THE PROGRAM CONTRACTORS, NINE OF THEM IN A FOCUS GROUP SETTING.
AND THERE WERE MANY QUESTIONS ASKED SUCH THAT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN EVALUATE THE PROGRAM AND WE CAN EVOLVE THE PROGRAM.
SOME OF THE THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF THAT, UM, UH, FOCUS GROUP, THERE ARE SIX REALLY BIG THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF THE FOCUS GROUP.
FOR EXAMPLE, PRE-BUILT SCHOOLS.
THIS IS THE SCOPING STUDY OF CONTRACTORS WANTED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THE HOME BEFORE THEY GO IN.
SO WE, WE, WE BROUGHT IN THE ASSESSMENT.
SO WE, WE, WE HAVE SOMETHING AVAILABLE FOR CONTRACTORS WHEN THEY COME INTO THE, UH, INTO THE HOME.
SO, SO THAT'S, THAT'S DIRECT, UH, INPUT FROM CONTRACTORS THAT WE ARE DOING, UH, FREE CONTRACTED TRAININGS.
TRAININGS ARE VERY IMPORTANT IN THESE PROGRAMS, NOT ONLY FOR THE SEVERAL PROGRAM, BUT THE PROGRAM NATION PROGRAMS NATIONWIDE.
SINCE WE ARE FOLLOWING A LOT OF THE STANDARDS, WE HAVE A BACK TO BASICS TRAINING.
IT'S A FREE TRAINING, IT'S A VERY POPULAR TRAINING WHERE WE BRING CONTRACTORS AND THEIR STAFF TO TRAIN THEM ON THE BASE, ON THE BUILDING SCIENCE PRINCIPLES, ON, UH, YOU KNOW, HOW TO, HOW TO GAUGE DIFFERENT, UH, CALCULATIONS AND ESPECIALLY PREPARE THEM TO GET THEIR CERTIFICATIONS THROUGH NCI OR BP OR WHAT HAVE YOU.
AND NOT ONLY THAT, WE ALSO TRY TO REIMBURSE THEM FOR THEIR, UH, TRAINING COSTS AND THEIR APPLICATION AND EXAM FEES.
UH, WE HAVE, UH, REDUCED THE REQUIREMENTS.
THIS IS SOMETHING WHICH I'M GOING TO TALK IN THE NEXT SLIDE A LITTLE BIT MORE, UH, MORE.
[01:50:01]
SINCE THAT, UH, FOCUS GROUP CONTRACTORS WANTED SOME REDUCED REQUIREMENTS IN THIS CASE, REQUIREMENTS LIKE BPI, UH, NATIONALLY, AND I WILL TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE LATER, BUT NATIONALLY, ALMOST EVERY WHOLE HOUSE PROGRAM REQUIRES CONTRACTORS TO BE BPI CERTIFIED.WE REDUCE THAT REQUIREMENT A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO TO HELP OUT CONTRACTORS BECAUSE THIS WAY THERE'S LESSER REQUIREMENTS.
REMOVE THE BARRIER, PUSH THEM TOWARDS NCI AND, AND THEN WHAT HAVE YOU.
AND THEN FINALLY, WE PROVIDE MORE MARKETING, MARKETING SUPPORT.
WE HAVE MORE, A LOT MORE CO-BRANDED MATERIAL.
THIS WAY CONTRACTORS CAN, CAN, CAN MARKET THE PROGRAM.
AND CLEAR STANDARD IS SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT.
ONE THING CONTRACTORS NOTED TO US, AND THE FOCUS GROUP WAS THAT THEY, THEY DON'T WANT THEIR INSPECTIONS TO FAIL.
WE INSPECT THE PROJECT, OUR FIELD STAFF IS INSPECT THE PROJECT, AND THEY WANTED TO HAVE THE SIMILAR INFORMATION THAT OUR FIELD STAFF HAS.
SO SINCE THEN, WE HAVE CHANGED THE, THE, THE CHECKLIST AND REQUIREMENTS WHERE CONTRACTOR AND OUR FIELD STAFF HAVE A SIMILAR REQUIREMENTS.
LIKE, WHAT DO WE WATCH? WHAT DO WE CALCULATE? THIS WAY PROJECTS DON'T FAIL.
SO THIS IS SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, WE, THIS IS ONE, ONE ASPECT OF COLLABORATIVE APPROACH WHERE WE ARE TRYING TO IMPROVE THE PROGRAM WITH THE HELP OF CONTRACTORS.
THIS, I'M NOT GONNA SPEND TOO MUCH TIME HERE.
THIS IS SOMETHING WE WILL BE DOING QUITE A BIT, AND I'M GOING TO TALK ABOUT THIS ABOUT A LITTLE BIT IN THE NEXT SLIDE.
IT IN THE CREATIVE PROGRAM DESIGN, BUT THE TEAM, AND THEN I AM ONLY FEW FIVE MONTHS HERE COMING FROM NORTHEAST WHERE THERE ARE SOME REALLY BIG PROGRAMS. UH, I WAS HEAD OF, UH, UH, DSM AT A GRADE WHERE WE, I, I HAD MY RESPONSIBILITY INCLUDED ENERGIZED CONNECTICUT AND MASS WEATHERIZATION PROGRAMS. SO FIRST THING I DID, I WANTED TO UNDERSTAND FROM THE, UH, FROM THE FOCUS GROUP RESULTS AND, AND EVERYTHING, UH, THAT I WAS HEARING, THAT WHAT KIND OF REQUIREMENTS WE HAVE FOR CONTRACTORS TO HELP TO BECOME OUR PARTNERS HERE.
UH, SO NOW WE TAKE TOO MUCH TIME ON THIS SLIDE.
THIS IS JUST BASICALLY A BENCHMARK SHOWING WHERE AUSTIN ENERGY, A LEADER IN THIS SPACE STANDS WITH SOME LARGER LEADER PROGRAMS IN THE NORTHEAST.
SO JUST VERY QUICKLY, LIKE WHEN IT COMES TO LICENSING, WE ARE VERY, VERY MUCH SAME.
SOME STATES HAVE OTHER PROGRAMS, HAVE SOME MORE STRINGENT REQUIREMENTS.
INSURANCE, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, VERY SIMILAR, THE CERTIFICATION.
SO RIGHT NOW WE REQUIRE OUR CONTRACTORS TO GO THROUGH NCI CERTIFICATION, THAT OPTIMIZATION AND AIR BALANCING SPECIFICALLY, WHEREAS ENERGIZE CONNECTICUT OR
HAVING A INSTALLER GO THROUGH THE BPI SCHOOL.
GETTING THE BPI CERTIFICATION IS A MUST.
THIS IS SOMETHING WE ARE SOMEWHAT, YOU KNOW, UH, LESS STRINGENT.
THE REST OF THE LARGER PROGRAMS, UH, SPECIALIZED EQUIPMENT, WE ALLOW THE CONTRACTORS TO EITHER OWN OR LEASE, WHEREAS OTHER LARGE PROGRAMS REQUIRE OWNERSHIP AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.
THE IDEA HERE WAS TO SHOW YOU THAT OUR REQUIREMENTS TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROGRAM FOR CONTRACTORS IS EITHER SAME OR TO AN EXTENT LESS STRINGENT.
SO WHERE THIS PROGRAM IS GOING, ESSENTIALLY, YOU KNOW, UM, AS WE, WE HAVE BENEFICIAL ELECTRIFICATION IS ONE OF THE KEY COMPONENTS OF RESOURCE GENERATION PLAN.
SO, SO TO THAT POINT, WE ARE LOOKING INTO OUR PROGRAM, OUR, ALL OF OUR PROGRAM AND, AND ESPECIALLY HESS TO INCORPORATE MORE AND MORE ELECTRIFICATION OPPORTUNITIES.
THIS IS WHERE WE HAVE, UH, HEAT PUMP, WATER HEATER INCENTIVE ADDED $800 PER UNIT.
GRANTED, IT'S THIS, UH, SMALLER COMPARED THE OVERALL COST.
UH, WE ARE LOOKING INTO MORE AND MORE HEAT PUMPS, UH, UH, INCENTIVIZE.
WE ARE LOOKING INTO, UH, INDUCTION COOKING, UH, OF, UH, OPPORTUNITIES AVAILABLE FOR OUR CUSTOMERS.
SO, BENEFICIAL ELECTRIFICATION IS ONE AREA WE WILL BE FOCUSING, UH, FURTHER
THIS IS WHERE ONE EXAMPLE IS TO LOOK INTO HOWEVER SISTER UTILITIES OUR PEER UTILITIES ARE DOING, THE PRO ARE IMPLEMENTING THE PROGRAMS. ARE THERE ANYTHING WE CAN LEARN FROM THEM? UH, WE ARE VERY CLOSE TO GETTING A E EM NV CONSULTANT ON BOARD.
E EM, N-V-E-M-N-V ARE EVALUATION, MEASUREMENT AND VERIFICATION AND REPORTING CONSULTANT.
ONCE THE CONSULTANT IS ON BOARD, THE VERY FIRST THING WE WANT TO DO WITH THE CONSULTANT IS TO HELP US THINK HOLISTICALLY ABOUT THIS PROGRAM AND SOME OTHER PROGRAMS, HOW WE, UH, BENCHMARK AGAINST OTHER PROGRAMS, WHAT KIND OF MEASURES WE ARE OFFERING.
INCENTIVES IS THIS INCENTIVE STRATEGY, IS IT OPTIMIZED OR NOT? SO THAT'S
UH, THEN FINALLY, TARGETED MARKETING.
WE HAVE A LOT OF DATA IN OUR SYSTEMS, ESPECIALLY WITH THE EAD.
WE WANT TO USE THAT DATA TO TARGET SPECIFICALLY THE HOMEOWNERS, WHICH HAVE ELECTRIC RESISTANCE HEATING, SUCH THAT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN, UH, CONVINCE THEM TO MOVE TOWARDS HEAT PUMPS AS WELL AS, YOU KNOW, UH, INSULATION.
AND ALSO USE DATA TO SEE WHERE THERE ARE LESSER R VALUES IN THE ATTIC OR WHATNOT.
AND AGAIN, TARGET THERE IN THIS WAY, WE CAN, UH, OPTIMIZE.
SO ESSENTIALLY THAT'S WHERE WE ARE GOING WITH THE PROGRAM.
[01:55:01]
UH, CLOSE IT DOWN, UH, PROGRAM DE DEFINITELY THE SUCCESS ONE, IN MY OPINION IS ONE OF THE LEADER PROGRAMS. UH, I'M NOT SURE HOW MANY OF YOU KNOW, UH, BUT GENERALLY I, I BELIEVE I CAN, I, I WILL STAND CORRECTED, BUT I BELIEVE, UH, THE HOME HOME PERFORMANCE WITH ENERGY STAR WAS BUILT ON AUSTIN ENERGY'S PROGRAM DESIGNED BACK IN THE DAY.UH, THE CUSTOMER SATISFACTION IS VERY HIGH.
OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE SOME CHALLENGES WHICH WE WANT TO ADDRESS WITH, UH, WITH OUR PARTNERS AND WITH OUR CONSULTANT AS WELL AS, UM, UM, OTHER PARTIES.
SO WITH THAT, UH, ANY QUESTIONS? THANK YOU, MR. CHAUDRY.
UM, COMM COMMISSIONER'S QUESTIONS? YES, COMMISSIONER FARMER.
THAT WAS, THAT WAS GREAT OVERVIEW.
UM, I GUESS WHAT, HOW COULD WE HELP YOU, LIKE WHERE DO YOU SEE ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT? I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY LIKE WITH THE NUMBERS COMING DOWN AND THINGS GETTING MORE EXPENSIVE, IS IT JUST LIKE YOUR TEAM COULD USE MORE MONEY TO OFFER HIGHER INCENTIVES TO BUILDERS FOR TRAININGS? OR ARE THERE OTHER THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, LIKE HOW CAN, HOW CAN WE HELP THE PROGRAM CONTINUE TO BE SUCCESSFUL OR INCREASE THAT SUCCESS? YEAH, SO EXCELLENT QUESTION NOW, UM, I MEAN THE, THE MORE MONEY PART OF THE HIGHER INCENTIVES IS SOMETHING, UM, I, I BELIEVE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A DISCUSSION, WHICH IS NOT, IT SHOULDN'T BE ON THE TOP OF THE AGENDA.
WE NEED TO HOLISTICALLY FIGURE OUT HOW WE MAKE THE MARKET MOVE.
AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE MARKETED PROGRAMS WHERE CUSTOMERS HAVE MANY DIFFERENT CHOICES AND, AND THEIR CHOICE TO DO A HOME IMPROVEMENT, UH, IS SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND MORE.
THIS IS WHERE I AM VERY EXCITED ABOUT EMNV CONSULTANT TO COME ON BOARD AND HELP US UNDERSTAND HOW TO GO ABOUT THINKING ABOUT, UM, YOU KNOW, SUCCESS OF THIS PROGRAM.
FOR EXAMPLE, THE QUICK EXAMPLE, UH, OTHER THAN INCENTIVE, WE HAVE SOMETHING ELSE AS WELL FOR OUR CUSTOMERS TO PARTICIPATE IN THE PROGRAM, A LOW INTEREST LOAN, VERY LOW INTEREST LOAN, WE SUBSIDIZE THE, UH, THE, THE BASIS POINT DOWN TO 1.99%, IF YOU WILL, BUT IN ORDER FOR CUSTOMERS TO GET THE LOAN, UH, AND, AND THAT'S THE REQUIREMENT OF THE LOAN, SINCE LOAN IS BEING FUNDED THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGIES, UH, BLOG GRANT, THERE HAS TO BE 15% OR MORE SAVINGS, DEMONSTRATED SAVINGS.
SO THIS IS WHERE I THINK THE KEY COMES IN THAT HOW DO WE, UH, SELECT OR, OR, OR HOW DO WE CORRECTLY, UM, UH, HOW, HOW DO WE OPTIMIZE THE ENERGY SAVINGS? AND WHERE I'M TRYING TO GO ABOUT IS THAT RIGHT NOW OUR PROGRAM IN OUR COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS, WE DON'T INCORPORATE NON-ENERGY BENEFITS NS, WHICH AUTOMATICALLY PUT US BEHIND ON THAT BENEFIT COST ANALYSIS SCALE VERSUS OTHER PROGRAMS. SO THIS IS SOMETHING WE WANT TO BRING IN, LIKE THE ASTHMA, THE, THE, THE VALUE OF LESS ASTHMA OR, OR BETTER AIR QUALITY OR WHATNOT.
SO IF A MEASURE BECOMES MORE COST EFFECTIVE BY INCORPORATING ALL THE ENER NON-ENERGY BENEFITS, ENERGY SAVINGS, I THINK THAT'S THE FIRST STEP BECAUSE THAT ALLOWS MORE AND MORE PEOPLE TO, UH, TO ABLE TO GET THE, UH, THE, UH, THE, THE, THE, UH, THE LOAN FURTHER.
ONE THING IS THAT THIS IS A WHOLE HOUSE PROGRAM.
WE WANT PEOPLE TO ADDRESS AT LEAST 3D THREE MEASURES.
IT'S JUST, IT'S A WHOLE HOUSE APPROACH, RIGHT? AND WE DON'T WANT TO GO AWAY FROM THAT.
HOWEVER, WE ARE THINKING ABOUT, AND WE ARE, WE ARE LOOKING INTO MARKET AS CAN WE HAVE A HES LIGHT PROGRAM WHERE WE ONLY ASK PEOPLE TO DO TWO THINGS, AIR, CEILING, AND INSULATION.
OF COURSE, IN THAT CASE, THE OVERALL COST GOES DOWN.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO HVAC, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO OTHER THINGS.
AND THAT'S A DIFFERENT INCENTIVE STRATEGY.
THAT'S WHY I'M A LITTLE HESITANT TO SAY, IF WE NEED MORE MONEY, MORE MONEY COMES LATER.
IT'S FIRST ABOUT WHAT IS THE RIGHT PROGRAM DESIGN, WHAT ARE THE RIGHT MEASURES, AND ARE WE GETTING THE FULL ENERGY SAVINGS? WHICH FOR NOW, I KNOW FOR A FACT WE ARE NOT.
TEXAS, TRM DOESN'T GIVE US THE COMPLETE PICTURE.
THERE'S ANOTHER WAY, PLACE WE WANT TO ADDRESS, UH, MEASURES IN THE SAVINGS.
I GUESS, UH, ARE THOSE ALL THINGS THAT YOU ARE, THAT ARE LIKE ALREADY IN THE WORKS OR ARE LIKE, IS THE LOW INTEREST LOAN, IS THAT ALREADY AVAILABLE OR IS THAT SOMETHING YOU GUYS ARE WORKING ON? YES, YES.
LOW INTEREST LOAN HAS BEEN AVAILABLE FOR A WHILE.
UH, I, I WILL STAND CORRECTED IF I DON'T REMEMBER, BUT I THINK WE BRING IT DOWN TO 1.99% THROUGH OUR PROGRAM, BUT WE BUY DOWN THE BASIS POINT AND IT'S AVAILABLE.
THE ONLY THE REQUIREMENT FOR GETTING THE LOAN IS THAT ENERGY SAVINGS OF THE PROPOSED PROJECT MUST BE 15%.
AND THAT'S WHERE A LOT OF THOSE STANDARDS COME INTO PLACE, BECAUSE WE CANNOT DO A CUSTOMIZED PROJECT IN EACH HOME, RIGHT? WE CANNOT GO INSTALL A PROJECT AND, UM, AND, AND, UH, AND MEASURE THE ENERGY SAVINGS.
WE HAVE TO GO BY WHAT WE CALL DEEMED SAVINGS.
WHAT WE, WHAT ARE THE INDUSTRY STANDARDS TO GET THOSE DEEMED SAVINGS? WE NEED TO FOLLOW THESE, THESE RULES OR THESE, YOU KNOW, BEST PRACTICES THAT ARE SET BY NCI OR BPI, LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, LEN AND
[02:00:01]
GRILL SIZING IS LEN SIZING AND GRILLS IS ONE BIG TICKET ITEM WHERE ONE OF THE CONTRACTORS OUT OF, UH, UH, OUT OF SEVERAL CONTRACTORS I MET SINCE JOINING HAD ISSUES OR, OR CONCERNS THAT IT, IT IN ADD TO THE COST OF THE OVERALL PROJECT.HOWEVER, THE WAY WE WANT TO ADDRESS THAT POINT IS THAT WE WANT TO SEE IF WE TAKE SOME OF THESE CONSIDERATIONS, THE WILL IT AFFECT ENERGY SAVINGS OF THE PROJECT AND ULTIMATELY AFFECTING PE ABILITY OF PEOPLE TO GET THE LOANS.
YEAH, I WAS JUST WONDERING HOW THE PIPELINE USUALLY WORKS FOR A NEW CUSTOMER.
IS IT THAT THEY'RE APPROACHING AUSTIN ENERGY AND THEN THE AUDIT IS DONE AND THEN A CONTRACTOR, THEY'RE PUT IN TOUCH WITH THE CONTRACTOR? OR IS IT THEY'RE APPROACHING CONTRACTORS AND THEY WANT TO GET THIS DONE AND THEN THE CONTRACTOR SUBMITS REIMBURSEMENT AND AUDIT THROUGH AUSTIN ENERGY? YEAH, SO IT'S A, UH, UH, IT'S, IT'S A, UH, IT'S A MARKETED PROGRAM.
SO WE MARKET IT, UH, WE HELP OUR CONTRACTORS MARKET THE PROGRAMS, CONTRACTORS HAVING THE SKIN IN THE GAME.
THEY, THEY CAN, THEY CAN DO THEIR OWN MARKET MARKETING.
THIS, THE CUSTOMER JOURNEY STARTS NOW WITH A IN-HOME SCOPING, UH, CONTRACTOR.
CUSTOMER GOES TO THE WEBSITE, SELECT A CONTRACTOR OF THEIR CHOICE, WE HAVE A LIST OF CONTRACTORS, THEN CONTRACTOR SHOWS UP TO THE HOME, FINDS THE PROJECTS, PROVIDE AN OPPORTUNITY LIST TO THE CUSTOMERS.
UM, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, IN THIS CASE THEY HAVE TO DO A COMPREHENSIVE PROJECT WITH COMPREHENSIVE AIR SEALING BEING ONE OF THE MEASURE PLUS TWO, TWO, ANY OTHER TWO MEASURES OF THEIR CHOICE, UH, PROVIDE, UH, CONTRACTOR PROVIDES CUSTOMER WITH THE OPPORTUNITIES.
LIKE OKAY, WHAT INCENTIVE THEY'RE LOOKING AT THE LOAN AND WHATNOT.
UH, ONCE THE PROJECT IS COMPLETE, WE DO A HUNDRED PERCENT CHECK ON THE PROJECTS.
WE BEING A ENERGY STAFF, FIELD STAFF, UH, AND, UH, IF THE, IF THE PROJECT PASSES, THAT'S WHERE THE, THE, THE PAYMENT HAPPENS AND THE PROJECT IS CLOSED OUT, I STAND CORRECTED IF I MISS SOME POINT.
SO YOU'RE SEEING SORT OF, WITH THE NUMBERS GOING DOWN, PRESUMABLY YOU'RE SEEING SOME CUSTOMERS THAT IT'S MARKETED TO AND THEY APPROACH AND THEY SEE, UH, YOU KNOW, 15 GRAND OR 20 GRAND AND PROBABLY THEY DON'T MAKE THE DECISION TO GO AHEAD WITH IT THESE DAYS, RIGHT? IT'S A WHOLE HOUSE APPROACH WITH SO MUCH UNCERTAINTY IN THE MARKET.
THERE IS, UH, THAT'S ONE OF THE BIGGEST BARRIER, THE OVERALL COST OF THE PROJECT AND THEIR PORTION, ALTHOUGH WE HAVE A PRETTY HANDSOME INCENTIVE PLUS THE LOAN OPPORTUNITY, RIGHT? YEAH.
SO AT THIS POINT THOUGH, RIGHT NOW THERE'S NO, UH, PROGRAM THAT'S JUST DIRECTED TO, IS AIR SEALING THE, THE BEST BANG FOR THE BUCK, KIND OF.
IS THAT TRUE THAT YOU'RE SEALING? WELL, YEAH.
SO COMPREHENSIVE AIR, CEILING OR DUCT CEILING IS THE CORNER STORE OF THE CORNERSTONE OF THE PROGRAM.
THIS IS WHERE WE ARE ADDRESSING THE, THE COMFORT, THE AIR FLOW, THE HVAC SIZING AND EVERYTHING.
'CAUSE BEFORE YOU DO CEILING, YOU DO MANUAL D, MANUAL J CALCULATIONS, YOU WANT TO SIZE IT PROPERLY, YOU NEED TO DO THINGS.
SO YEAH, THAT'S ONE, THAT'S THE CORNERSTONE CON CON CORNERSTONE MEASURE.
UH, I, I, AS I ALLUDED TO, WE ARE FAIRLY ACTIVELY LOOKING INTO, SAY, HES LIGHT PROGRAM WHERE WE CAN GO MOVE AWAY FROM WHOLE HOUSE APPROACH, KEEP THE WHOLE LARGE APPROACH FOR THE PEOPLE WHO WANTS IT, BUT THEN PERHAPS MOVE TOWARDS A LIGHTER APPROACH WHERE INSTEAD OF ASKING PEOPLE TO DO EVERYTHING, WE'LL LET THEM DO TWO THINGS.
TWO, OR WE REQUIRE THEM TO DO ONLY TWO THINGS, AIR SEALING AND INSULATION.
RIGHT? THAT, THAT WAS GONNA BE IN MY COMMENT, JUST AS LOWS HANGING FURTHER, AS MUCH AS THEY, IF, IF THEY HAVE AN $8,000 BUDGET OR, OR $5,000, THEN MAYBE THEY CAN STILL DO ONE ELEMENT OF IT AND OR YEAH, ONE OR TWO.
YEAH, THAT'S ABSOLUTELY IN, UH, IN, IN, IN, NOT ONLY IN WORKS, IN, IN CONSIDERATION, IN WORKS, UH, TEAM IS ACTIVELY LOOKING AT COUPLE OF DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITIES.
THERE ARE SOME REALLY, UH, ADVANCED MARKET PLAYERS WHO USE DATA IN DIFFERENT, UH, IN DIFFERENT SERVICE TERRITORIES.
SO WE ARE WORKING WITH THEM, DEFINITELY WE WANT TO BRING AS MANY OPPORTUNITIES AS POSSIBLE FOR CUSTOMERS TO GET WEATHERIZATION, BUT THEY HAVE TO HIT THE 15% TOTAL ENERGY REDUCTION OR SOMETHING FOR THIS OR SO, YEAH, IF THEY, IF THEY HAVE, IF THEY WANT TO GET THE LOAN, THE LOAN ONLY LOAN, THE PROJECT HAS TO SHOW 15% SAVINGS.
HENCE, YOU'RE NOT TRYING TO FIND THE RIGHT KIND OF MEASURE MIX OR THE RIGHT KIND OF MEASURE, UM, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, MEASURE BUNDLE.
SO THEY CAN GET THE 15% IF THEY HAVE TO GET THE, UH, IF, IF THEY WANT TO GET THE, THE LOAN.
NOW, OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, IN THIS HES LIGHT, WE MAY NOT EVEN NEED THESE LARGE LOANS.
THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING WHERE, UH, DEPENDING UPON ECONOMICS ONLY THE INCENTIVE WORKS OUT LIKE OUR OTHER MEASURES THAT'S TO BE SEEN.
IS THERE A SEPARATE AIR CEILING PROGRAM? I KIND OF FORGET RIGHT NOW IF SOMEONE JUST WANTED TO DO TWO GRAND OF THAT SORT OF STUFF.
WE ARE WORK, WE ARE ACTIVELY LOOKING INTO WHAT, FOR THE, FOR THE LACK OF BETTER WORD, I'M USING HES LIGHT, RIGHT? YEAH.
UH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS, WE HAVE, UH, AND OUR CURFEW, UH, IS ABOUT NINE O'CLOCK, SO
[02:05:01]
WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF TIME.SO I'M GONNA CENTER AROUND, UH, JUST ONE OR TWO QUICK QUESTIONS.
BUT I ASKED FOR THIS BRIEFING, UH, BECAUSE BACK IN 2014, THERE WERE 2000 HOME PERFORMANCE PARTICIPANTS, AND NOW THERE'S ABOUT 300.
UH, AND I HAVE A SENSE OF WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO RESEARCH TO IMPROVE THINGS, BUT, UM, THERE'S, WITHOUT MEANING TO SOUND HYPERCRITICAL, THERE'S A SAYING THAT, THAT BETWEEN THE WORD AND THE DEED LIES A BIG TRENCH.
AND I'M JUST HOPING THAT WE SEE PROGRESS.
UH, I'M SURE THAT YOU'LL UPDATE US POINT WELL TAKEN.
AGAIN, JUST TO ADDRESS THE 2014, THAT WAS ESPECIALLY, UH, DEFINITELY I WASN'T HERE.
UH, THERE WAS A BRIEF PERIOD, UH, IN, IN THE RECESSION THAT STARTED IN 2009 WHERE THINGS WENT DOWN.
BUT GENERALLY WE WERE AT ABOUT 2000 YEAR AFTER YEAR FOR MANY, MANY YEARS.
I WILL AGAIN GO BACK IN THE HISTORY AND SEE, BUT RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A PROGRAM WHICH PER ON PERFORMANCE WISE, IT'S VERY ON THE PAR WITH THESE LARGE PROGRAMS THAT I HAVE BEEN MANAGING IN THE, IN THE NORTHEAST.
HOWEVER, AS I SAID, YOU KNOW, WE ARE LOOKING INTO DIFFERENT WAYS TO ADDRESS CUSTOMER SEGMENTS WITH THE HES LIGHT, WITH, UH, WITH, WITH BRINGING THE EMNV CONSULTANT ON BOARD, UH, AND DEFINITELY LOOKING TO, TO REVERSE THE TREND ON, ON PARTICIPATION.
UH, DO ANY OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE QUESTIONS FOR MR. CHAUDRY? UH, YES.
UH, I'M CURIOUS ABOUT YOUR TARGETED MARKETING.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT A LITTLE BIT? YEAH, SO WE WANT TO USE THE DATA IN THE MORE, AGAIN, DATA IS A BIG WORD THESE DAYS.
SO WE, WE WANT TO USE A LOT MORE DATA TO FIND THE, THE TARGET HOMES WHICH ARE BETTER CANDIDATES FOR THIS PROGRAM.
FOR EXAMPLE, THROUGH EAD, WE HAVE QUITE A BIT OF DATA AVAILABLE, WHICH CAN TELL US WHETHER A CERTAIN HOME IS ELECTRIC RESISTANCE HEATED, OR WHAT KIND OF INSULATION LEVEL CERTAIN HOME MIGHT HAVE.
IF YOU HAVE ELECTRIC RESISTANCE, HEATING, HE HEATED HOME WITH A LOW LEVEL OF INSULATION, THAT'S PROBABLY IS THE BEST CANDIDATE WHERE THE BANK FOR THE BUCK AND IN TERMS OF INVESTMENT WILL BE HIGH.
SO THAT'S WHAT I MEANT BY TARGETED MARKETING.
WE WANT TO USE A LOT OF DIFFERENT DATA, BUT A STARTING POINT, THE ECAT, WE HAVE QUITE A BIT OF THAT.
WE WANT TO LOOK AT IT, WE WANT TO SHARE WITH OUR CONTRACTORS THAT PERHAPS, YOU KNOW, THESE X AMOUNT OF HOMES PROBABLY ARE BETTER CANDIDATES.
THE, THE ECONOMICS MIGHT WORK OUT MUCH BETTER THERE.
SO, SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO GO.
MR. CHARI, I HAVE, UH, ONE QUESTION.
I, I KNOW THAT THE QUALIFICATION IS THAT THE HOME NEEDS TO BE 10 YEARS OLD OR MORE, AND I, I GUESS THAT'S TO, YOU KNOW, THE, THE THINKING IS THE OLDER HOMES ARE GONNA BE THE ONES WITH THE MORE OPPORTUNITY, YOU KNOW, CRACKS AND, AND THINGS TO FIX.
BUT THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF BUILDING IN AUSTIN IN THE LAST 10 YEARS, AND THERE IS A DEFINITELY A SPECTRUM OF, UH, QUALITY.
AND SO I'M JUST CURIOUS IF YOU'VE EVER CONSIDERED REVISITING THAT CRITERIA FOR THE, FOR THE REBATE.
THERE MAY BE HOMES THAT YOU KNOW, ARE POORLY INSULATED OR DON'T HAVE GOOD CEILING, OR, AND I DON'T KNOW, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT'S, THAT'S EVER BEEN CONSIDERED, OR IS THAT PRETTY HARD AND FAST RULE? UH, SO J DAVIS, THE WAY I WILL ANSWER THAT IS THAT ACTUALLY YOU BRING AN EXCELLENT POINT.
THE QUALITY OF CONSTRUCTION OR QUALITY, THE QUALITY OF CONSTRUCTION OF THESE HOME BUILDERS, WHICH ARE PRODUCTION HOME BUILDERS BUILD LIKE 200, 300 HOMES THERE, YOU COULD SEE NOT FOLLOWING THE, THE CODE OR WHATNOT.
WE, ON THE, ON THE RETROFIT SIDE, ON THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY SIDE, WE CALCULATE OUR SAVINGS TO THE CODE.
SO EVERY TIME WHEN THE CODE A, A BETTER CODE IS, UM, UH, IMPLEMENTED IN THE CITY, WE HAVE LESS SAVINGS TO, TO CAPTURE.
UH, BECAUSE THE ASSUMPTION IS THAT, THAT THE BUILDING IS, IS, IS BETTER.
THAT'S THE BASIS OF HAVING A 10 YEAR OR OLDER.
NOW HAVING SAID THAT, THAT'S JUST A CAVEAT.
HAVING SAID THAT, THIS IS WHY I'M VERY EXCITED ABOUT GETTING OUR EMNB CONSULTANT ON BOARD.
THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE WANT TO ASK THEM ABOUT ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA THAT ARE WE MISSING OUT ANY MARKET BY PUTTING A 10 YEAR, UH, TIMEFRAME? WE CAN'T HEAR YOU GUYS,
[02:10:01]
SO, YEAH.UH, CAN, THEY'RE HAVING TROUBLE HEARING US ONLINE.
SO YOU CAN HEAR ME, JANELLE, I CAN HEAR YOU, BUT I DON'T HEAR ANYONE ELSE.
UH, THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS THAT DEFINITELY WE WILL BE ADDRESSING WITH OUR CONSULTANTS.
UH, I AM ENCOURAGED THAT YOU HELD THOSE FOCUS GROUPS.
UH, IT WAS NINE CONTRACTORS CAME INTO THE FOCUS GROUP IN 2022, AND SINCE MY ARRIVAL, I HAVE MET ALMOST EVERY CONTRACTOR IN PERSON HERE TO GET, GET SENSE OF THEIR THINKING.
AND I'M VERY PLEASED WITH, WITH, WITH THE PEOPLE WE ARE WORKING WITH.
UM, I'M GONNA ASK ABOUT OUR NETWORK CONNECTION BECAUSE I SEE WE HAVE FOUR, FIVE OF US HERE.
COMMISSIONER ZIN, COMMISSIONER GARY, CAN YOU HEAR US? WE'VE LOST OUR QUORUM.
LET'S BE AT RECESS FOR FIVE MINUTES.
UH, WE RECESS FOR FIVE MINUTES.
ITEMS, UH, LEFT ON OUR AGENDA AND I KNOW IT'S LATE, SO I'M GONNA TRY TO GO THROUGH THESE PRETTY QUICKLY.
[6. Discuss and action to recommend creating a revolving fund for solar and energy efficiency investment on City properties. (Sponsors: Davis and Luecke)]
AT ITEM SIX, DISCUSSION AND ACTION ITEMS. SO DISCU DISCUSSION AND ACTION TO RECOMMEND A CREATING A REVOLVING FUND FOR SOLAR AND ENERGY INVESTMENT, ENERGY EFFICIENCY INVESTMENT ON CITY PROPERTIES.COULD YOU MAKE THAT A LITTLE BIT BIGGER PLEASE? THANK YOU.
UM, SO THIS RECOMMENDATION, UH, ASKS THAT THE COUNCIL CREATE A REVOLVING FUND TO, UH, PAY FOR SOLAR INSTALLATIONS ON CITY FACILITIES.
UM, IT'S BEING CONSIDERED BY THE JOINT SUSTAINABILITY COMMITTEE AS WELL.
UM, BIT OF, BY WAY OF BACKGROUND, THE OFFICE OF CLIMATE ACTION RESILIENCE FORMULA, THE SUSTAINABILITY OFFICE DEVELOPED A COMPREHENSIVE CLIMATE IMPLEMENTATION PROGRAM, OR CCIP TO GUIDE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE AUSTIN CLIMATE EQUITY PLAN.
AND ONE OF ITS FOUNDATIONAL ACTIONS THAT THEY PROPOSED WAS CREATING A CLIMATE REVOLVING FUND, WHICH WOULD INVEST IN ENERGY SAVING UPGRADES TO CITY BUILDINGS, CAPTURING THOSE SAVINGS AND REINVESTING THEM, UM, FOR ADDITIONAL, UH, INVESTMENT FOR IMPROVEMENTS THAT REDUCE GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS AND SAVE MONEY FOR THE CITY.
SO IT WOULD TAKE AN INITIAL INVESTMENT FOR CONSTRUCTION OF SOLAR PANELS AND ENERGY EFFICIENCY UPGRADES, AND WOULD GENERATE ENERGY COST SAVINGS, WHICH WOULD THEN BE, UH, REPLENISH THE FUND AND ALLOW IT TO BE USED TO FUND ADDITIONAL PROJECTS.
UM, IF YOU GO SCROLL DOWN TO THE THEREFORE PARTS OF THIS RES RECOMMENDATION, UM, IT'S, UH, RECOMMENDED THAT CITY COUNCIL ESTABLISH, UH, A REVOLVING SUSTAINABLE CITY FACILITIES FUND OF AT LEAST 15 MILLION TO SEED SOLAR ENERGY INSTALLATIONS ON CITY BUILDINGS AND OTHER CITY PROPERTIES, AND MAKE ENERGY AND WATER EFFICIENCY UPGRADES, UH, ON, UH, CITY PROPERTY.
UM, IN ADDITION, THE, THE RMC RECOMMENDS THAT THESE COST SAVINGS BE CONTINUOUSLY REINVESTED AND THAT A CERTIFIED ENERGY MANAGER BE APPOINTED TO QUANTIFY THE COST SAVINGS AND MANAGE THAT FUND.
[02:15:01]
THAT'S PRETTY QUICK OVERVIEW.UM, WHERE, WHERE DOES THE MONEY COME FROM ORIGINALLY THAT IT IS UNFUNDED? IT, UH, COULD COME FROM THE GENERAL FUND.
UM, THAT IS NOT LIKELY THIS YEAR.
IT COULD COME FROM AUSTIN ENERGY, ALTHOUGH WE'D PROBABLY HAVE TO RAISE THE COMMUNITY BENEFIT FUND.
JUST ANNOUNCED GENERAL TRANSFER.
COMMISSIONER FARMER AGAIN, I THINK, CAN YOU HEAR US? YEAH, WE CAN.
OH, CAN WE HEAR YOU? I JUST COULDN'T HEAR HIM FOR A SECOND THERE.
UM, I WAS JUST SAYING, UH, I GUESS MY MAIN COMMENT WOULD JUST BE, UH, TO INCLUDE BATTERIES IN IT.
I THINK LIKE SOLAR AND BATTERY ARE SO IMPORTANT THAT THEY'RE PAIRED FOR LOAD SHIFTING AND BALANCING, AND WE'RE GONNA BE TALKING A LOT ABOUT BATTERIES IN THE COUPLE MONTHS.
UM, SO I THINK THAT WOULD BE JUST LIKE, MAKE THAT EXPLICIT IN THERE.
AND IT'S ALSO, I MEAN, I THINK IT COULD POTENTIALLY GIVEN THE CURRENT LANGUAGE MM-HMM
BUT I THINK LIKE, ACTUALLY SAYING THAT WORD WOULD BE HELPFUL.
I THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER FARMER.
I WOULD CONSIDER THAT A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT.
UM, UH, DO YOU WANNA PROPOSE A, AN AMENDMENT TO THE CLAUSE, THE THEREFORE C CLAUSE? I'D SAY 15 MILLION TO SEED SOLAR ENERGY AND BATTERY STORAGE INSTALLATIONS, SEED SOLAR ENERGY AND BATTERY STORAGE INSTALLATIONS ON CITY BUILDINGS.
UM, HOW DO YOU, LIKE IF SOMEONE'S, CAN I HAVE, CAN I ASK SOME QUESTIONS? DO Y'ALL, HAVE Y'ALL DONE A MOTION? OH,
HE CAN OFFER THE AMENDMENT, SO, OKAY.
YOU CAN ASK A QUESTION JUST ONE SEC, BUT I NEED A MOTION AND A SECOND AND THEN JUST OPEN DISCUSSION.
UH, I MOVE TO APPROVE THE, OKAY, SO I MOVE AND COMMISSIONER FARMER SECONDS AND NOW IT'S, WE'RE A DISCUSSION.
UM, SO IN THE TABLE, IT ACTUALLY, IT SEEMED LIKE IT HAD A RECOMMENDED SEED FUND OF 5.1 MILLION AND IT REFERENCES SAN ANTONIO, WHICH I KNOW SEED FUNDED IT IN 2011, BUT THAT'S ADJUSTED LIKE SIX AND A HALF MILLION.
SO WHERE DID THE 15 MILLION NUMBER COME FROM? YES.
UM, SO IN THAT BACKUP DOCUMENT, THERE ARE, THERE'S TWO, THERE'S TWO FIGURES.
UM, THE 5.1 MILLION IS, IS EXPLICITLY FOR A, UM, REVOLVING CLIMATE SEED FUND.
UM, ALSO IN THAT DOCUMENT UNDER THE SUSTAINABLE BUILDINGS PORTION, THERE IS, UM, AN ESTIMATE.
IT'S A BACK OF THE ENVELOPE ESTIMATE OF, UH, TWO YEAR ESTIMATE OF $22 MILLION FOR, UM, SOLAR, LET ME FIND THAT.
UM, YEAH, ROOFTOP SOLAR ON PV ON CITY FACILITIES.
SO THAT WAS JUST THE, THE 15 MILLION IS NOT A, AN EXACT FIGURE.
IT'S JUST ONE OF THOSE THAT, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST 15 MILLION, UM, IS IN THE RANGE FOR THAT, UH, TWO YEAR COST TO, UM, INSTALL THOSE, UM, SOLAR ON THE CITY FACILITIES.
SO, YOU KNOW, WE CAN DEBATE THE, THE NUMBER OF WHAT'S NECESSARY TO START, YOU KNOW, WE COULD START WITH SOMETHING SMALLER.
UM, I, I TEND TO, YOU KNOW, LEAN TOWARDS ASKING FOR MORE, UM, AND, YOU KNOW, SEEING WHERE WE CAN GET FROM THERE.
UM, SO IS I, I WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW THIS REVOLVING FUND WOULD WORK.
UM, SO IS IT LIKE ON A FIRST COME, FIRST SERVE BASIS, LIKE THESE LIKE PROGRAMS SUBMIT A PROPOSAL AND THEY HAVE SOME SORT OF MINIMUM COST EFFECTIVENESS LEVEL THEY HAVE TO CLEAR IN ORDER TO BE CONSIDERED AN OKAY PROJECT TO GET ONE OF THESE GRANTS OR WHATEVER? YEAH, I THINK THAT'S, UH, THE DETAILS OF THAT CAN, CAN PROBABLY BE, BE WORKED OUT.
UM, BUT THESE WOULD BE, UM, CITY PROPERTY.
UH, AND THERE IS ACTUALLY ALREADY A RESOLUTION THAT COUNCIL PASSED IN MAY, UM, WHICH, EXCUSE ME, DIRECTS THE, THE MANAGER TO, UM, CONDUCT AN ANALYSIS, KIND OF AN ANALYSIS OF THE CITY PROPERTY, UM, AND MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR AREAS
[02:20:01]
THAT WOULD MAXIMIZE THE INSTALLATION, LOOKING AT ROOFTOPS PARKING LOTS, OPEN SPACES, AND PRIORITIZING THE INSTALLATION OF SOLAR ON PROPERTY OR FACILITIES THAT ARE MANAGED BY DEPARTMENTS FUNDED BY THE CITY'S GENERAL FUND.AND THEN THAT WOULD, ANALYSIS WOULD GO TO THE CLIMATE WATER ENVIRONMENTS AND PARKS COMMITTEE.
SO THESE ARE ALL, YOU KNOW, CITY OWNED PROPERTY.
UM, AND I THINK THEY WOULD BE, THEY WOULD BE ANALYZED AND I GUESS PRIORITIZED FOR, FOR THAT INVESTMENT.
BUT, BUT IN THE, SO IT SEEMS LIKE YOU MENTIONED MOSTLY SO LIKE PV AND, AND POTENTIALLY A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT TO INCLUDE BATTERIES, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE WATER WAS ALSO IN THERE, AND I GUESS I WAS WONDERING IF WE NEEDED SOME SORT OF LIKE, UM, SOME, SOME SET OF THRESHOLDS ON HOW TO CALIBRATE THIS AND PRIORITIZE THESE BASED ON LIKE THE DIFFERENT VALUES THEY BRING, LIKE SOLAR AND, YOU KNOW, WATER CONSERVATION.
THEY'RE KIND OF ON, THEY'RE JUST DIFFERENT, THEY'RE DIFFERENT SERVICES, YOU KNOW MM-HMM
SO HOW DO, HOW WILL WE, OR, OR IS IT ALL ACTUALLY INTENDED JUST FOR PV INSTALLS? NO, I MEAN, I, I THINK THAT'S A, THAT'S A GOOD POINT.
UM, THE, LET'S SEE, THE INITIAL, UM, LET'S SEE, THE INITIAL RECOMMENDATION WAS SOLAR PV, UM, AS WELL AS EN UH, YOU KNOW, ENERGY EFFICIENCY, UM, UPGRADES AND WATER EFFICIENCY.
UM, UM, YEAH, IT DOES SAY IT DOES SAY WATER.
UM, YEAH, SO I, I, I GET, I GET THE POINT, UM, THE, YOU KNOW, AND LOOKING AT THE SAVINGS AND LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, HOW IT, HOW IT WORKS, WHAT THE EFFICIENCIES ARE, AND KIND OF ALLOCATING THAT TO DIFFERENT PROJECTS.
UM, YOU KNOW, I, I WOULD BE OPEN TO FOCUSING IT MORE AND, YOU KNOW, MAKING IT FOCUS JUST ON SOLAR AND BATTERY, IF THAT MAKES SENSE FOR, AND I THINK THE, THE THING WAS BROUGHT IN FOR THE IDEA THIS COMMISSION IS, YOU KNOW, ABOUT SAY, BEING ENERGY EFFICIENT, BEING WATER, WATER CONSERVATION, BEING RENEWABLE ENERGY, THAT SORT OF A THING.
SO I THINK THAT'S WHY THAT'S INCLUDED THERE.
UM, YOU KNOW, I BROUGHT THIS AS, UH, A, UM, FROM THE JOINT SUSTAINABILITY COMMITTEE I MENTIONED IT'S BEING CONSIDERED THERE, AND SO IT FELT LIKE SOMETHING THAT THIS COMMISSION WOULD BE INTERESTED IN POTENTIALLY SUPPORTING AS WELL.
DO YOU HAVE A, THOSE WERE MY, THOSE WERE MY MAIN QUESTIONS.
UM, YES, THANK YOU, CHAIR DAVIS.
SO BACK TO THAT NUMBER OF 15 MILLION, UM, I'M KIND, KIND OF WANTING MORE INFORMATION AS WELL AS ON THAT AMOUNT.
I MEAN, IF, IF I WAS RECEIVING THIS, I WOULD WANNA KNOW HOW DID WE COME UP TO THAT AMOUNT MM-HMM
SO SOME TYPE OF ITEMIZATION OUTLINING IT SINCE IT, SINCE YOU'RE TRYING TO GET IT OUT OF THE, THE GENERAL FUNDS JUST SHOWING WHAT CAME, HOW DO WE GET TO 15 MILLION, IF THAT'S THE NUMBER, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME, SOME COST ANALYSIS BEFORE WE MOVE FORWARD.
AND THEN NUMBER TWO, UM, IS THERE AN URGENCY TO GET THIS, UH, BEFORE THE CITY COUNCIL PRIOR TO COMING UP WITH THAT, THAT ITEMIZATION? THAT'S ALL I HAVE.
YEAH, THANKS FOR YOUR QUESTION.
UM, YEAH, I, I INCLUDED IN THE BACKUP, THE, UM, THE MEMO FROM THE OFFICE OF CLIMATE ACTION AND RESILIENCE, WHO HAD PUT A SUMMARY OF THEIR ANALYSES, UH, OF ALL THE DIFFERENT ACTIONS.
I THINK THEY HAD SOMETHING LIKE 47 OF THEM.
AND SO THEIR, UM, COST ESTIMATE FOR ROOFTOP SOLAR ON, UH, 75% OF ROOF SPACE ON 92 BUILDINGS, WHICH IS APPROXIMATELY A MILLION SQUARE FEET, GENERATING ABOUT EIGHT MEGAWATTS AND 10,000 MEGAWATT HOURS ANNUALLY, UM, HAD A TWO YEAR COST OF 22 MILLION.
UM, SO I'M SURE THEY HAVE A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, BACKUP BEHIND THAT AS WELL.
UM, SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, 15 MILLION IS KIND OF A, YOU KNOW, I THINK THIS WOULD BE ENOUGH TO KIND OF GET IT STARTED.
UM, AND AS FAR AS YOUR SECOND POINT, REMIND ME, WHAT WAS YOUR SECOND QUESTION? OH, THE URGENCY.
UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE DRAFT BUDGET HAS JUST COME OUT.
I MEAN, I, I'M NOT UNDER AN ILLUSION THAT,
[02:25:01]
THAT THIS IS GOING TO, UM, YOU KNOW, BE ADOPTED IN THIS YEAR'S BUDGET RIGHT AWAY.I THINK THIS IS MORE OF A, UM, A SIGNAL OF SUPPORT, UH, OF SOMETHING LIKE THIS THAT HAS THE DUAL PURPOSE OR IS THE DUAL PURPOSE OF, UM, YOU KNOW, MOVING TOWARDS, YOU KNOW, MORE SUSTAINABLE, MORE ENERGY EFFICIENT, UM, MORE, YOU KNOW, SOLAR AND BATTERY, UM, REDUCING GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS AND SAVING, SAVING MONEY, UM, FOR THE CITY.
SO, UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK IF WE, YOU WANT TO ADD SOME, YOU KNOW, SOME CLARITY OR IF WE WANNA TIGHTEN UP SOME OF THE NUMBERS AND COME BACK, UH, IN A MONTH, I'M, I'M OPEN TO THAT AS WELL.
SORRY, I JUST WANTED TO SEE IF, IF THAT ANSWERED, UH, COMMISSIONER GARY'S QUESTION.
UH, I, I WOULD FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE IN APPROVING THIS IF I SEE HOW THESE NUMBERS ARE, UH, YOU KNOW, ADDED UP TO THAT AMOUNT.
YES, I DID SEE THE BACKUP, AND AGAIN, IT JUST, YOU KNOW, WE'RE JUST THROWING NUMBERS WITHOUT ACTUALLY HAVING THE, THE ACTUAL AMOUNTS OR AT LEAST ESTIMATED AMOUNTS SAYING WHAT PERCENTAGE OR WHAT AMOUNT IS GOING TO WHAT TO ADD UP TO THE FINAL NUMBER.
SO I WOULD BE, UM, OPEN TO, YOU KNOW, HAVING US WAIT AND REALLY DIVE IN TO DO THAT.
BUT AGAIN, IF IT'S AN URGENCY OR YOU NEED TO, YOU WANT TO GET THIS FAST, I'M JUST LETTING YOU KNOW WHERE I STAND ON THIS RIGHT NOW.
UM, COMMISSIONER LUKI, THANK YOU.
YEAH, I'M CURIOUS IF THERE'S A, A, A WAY OF FINDING OUT HOW MANY CITY BUILDINGS EXIST, BECAUSE IF WE'RE GONNA START AIMING AT THESE, I SEE THE NUMBER 92 IN THIS $22 MILLION, UH, INSTALL ROOFTOP SOLAR PHOTO.
BUT WE WILL TELL YOU ACTION HERE.
HOW MANY BUILDINGS ARE THERE? UH, IF YOU REALLY WANNA GET INTO THE WEEDS, COMMISSIONER LUKI, UH, YOU COULD DO, I COULD, WE COULD, ANY ONE OF US CAN SUBMIT AN INFORMATION REQUEST TO THE PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICE, AND THEY WILL GIVE, THEY WILL PROBABLY GIVE YOU VERY DETAILED, UH, LISTS, A VERY DETAILED LIST OF THE BUILDINGS, THE SQUARE FOOTAGE, THE ADDRESS, AND OTHER, UH, HIGH PRIORITY, UH, UH, DATA POINTS.
UH, IT, IT, I, I DO THAT STUFF A LOT.
UM, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CERTAIN PATIENCE FOR IT.
UM, JUST A POINT OF CLARIFICATION, THAT QUESTION IS IN THE RESOLUTION THAT THE COUNCIL JUST PASSED IN MAY SO DO AN ASSESSMENT OF ALL THE BUILDINGS AND FACILITIES THAT EXIST IN THE CITY.
SO WE WILL BE COMING BACK WITH THAT INFORMATION.
SO WE WILL HAVE AN ANSWER TO THAT, ACTUALLY.
YES, AND I JUST ALSO WANTED TO, TO MENTION THAT THE COUNCIL RESOLUTION DOES, UM, YOU KNOW, DIRECT TO, TO DO THAT ANALYSIS, UM, AND MAKE A RECOMMENDATION FOR THE PROPERTIES TO BE USED FOR THE PURPOSE, BUT IT, IT WASN'T ACTUALLY EXPLICIT IN THE, YOU KNOW, ESTABLISH A REVOLVING FUND.
UM, YOU KNOW, AND THERE WASN'T ANY DOLLAR FIGURE ATTACHED TO IT IS IMPLIED, BUT IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT EXPLICIT.
UM, IS, IS PART OF THAT ASSESSMENT ALSO LOOKING AT THESE, YOU KNOW, LIKE PV VERSUS BATTERIES VERSUS ENERGY EFFICIENCY UPGRADES FOR LIKE, WHAT WILL HAVE THE QUICKEST RETURN ON THEM? I DON'T, I DON'T BELIEVE SO.
UM, I THINK THAT WOULD BE, I THINK THAT'S LIKE, THAT'S AN INTERESTING PART OF THIS, AND I THINK, I MEAN, THIS SOUNDS LIKE IF IT'S $15 MILLION SEED MONEY, I MEAN, IT'D BE NICE, IT'D BE COOL IF IT WAS LIKE 15 MILLION ANNUALLY AND THEN IT PICKED UP THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY FROM THE PREVIOUS YEAR.
SO LIKE NEXT YEAR YOU GET LIKE, WHATEVER, IT'D BE, I DON'T KNOW, LIKE 18 MILLION AND THEN THE YEAR AFTER YOU'RE GETTING 24 BECAUSE IT'S LIKE CARRYING FORWARD THE SAVINGS FROM THE PREVIOUS YEAR.
AND SO THEN YOU CAN LIKE REALLY GET JUST SOME LIKE BIG NUMBERS.
I MEAN, AT SOME POINT MAYBE IT TOPS OUT MM-HMM
AND THEN THE OTHER PIECE OF IT IS LIKE, I KNOW PARKS AND REC IS DOING THIS WHOLE EFFORT AROUND THE, UM, LIKE RESILIENCY HUBS AND LOOKING AT REFRESHING ALL OF THEIR, LIKE THEY HAVE SO MANY, SO MANY OF THE BUILDINGS THAT CITY OWNS, OR PARKS AND REC MM-HMM
AND ARE LIKE IN DESPERATE NEED OF HELP.
AND SO THEY'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT LIKE HOW TO MAKE THOSE RESILIENCY HUBS, WHICH ALSO PLAYS WELL WITH PV.
IT'S LIKE IF YOU'RE FIXING UP THE BUILDING, JUST LIKE PUT A PV IN THE PARKING LOT OR ON THE ROOF OR WHATEVER.
[02:30:01]
YEAH, I DON'T, I MEAN, THOSE ARE MORE LIKE BACK ROOM KIND OF THINGS.AND LIKE AMENDMENTS TO RESOLUTION.
I THINK THIS IS A GREAT MM-HMM
UM, THIS RESOLUTION I THINK IS, IS REALLY FOCUSED ON SOLAR PV SPECIFICALLY.
UM, AND THEN BEYOND THE CITY PROPERTY, THERE'S ALSO, UH, A SUGGESTION OR A RES RE RESOLUTION TO, UM, YOU KNOW, TO EVALUATE OPPORTUNITIES FOR, UM, PROPERTIES OWNED OR OPERATED BY OTHER LOCAL GOVERNMENTAL ENT ENTITIES WITHIN AUSTIN ENERGY LOAD ZONE, LIKE SCHOOL DISTRICTS, MUNICIPALITIES, AND COUNTIES.
UM, SO I THINK THERE'S A LARGE, UM, POTENTIAL AVAILABLE FOR, YOU KNOW, FOR THIS.
AND, UM, YOU KNOW, WHILE, WHILE THIS IS THE CITY RESOLUTION IS MOVING FORWARD, UM, THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND WATER PIECES ARE MAYBE NOT INCLUDED IN THAT.
AND THEN THAT'S WHY, UM, I THINK THAT THE JSC WANTED TO, YOU KNOW, EXPLICITLY CALL SOME OF THOSE OUT.
SO OTHER, OH, VICE CHAIR ROBBINS, THE BLOOD WAS DRAINING FROM MY HAND.
I'M FINE WITH VOTING ON THIS TONIGHT IF YOU REALLY WANT TO DO IT.
I AM A LITTLE, I'LL BE PLEASANTLY SURPRISED IF THE MONEY CAN BE FOUND IMMEDIATELY GIVEN THE, UH, CITY'S GENERAL FUND SHORTFALL.
UM, YEAH, IT'S, IT IS OUT OF LIKE THE, WELL, THE BUDGET'S BEING DISCUSSED NOW, AND, YOU KNOW, WE KNOW WHAT THE STATE OF THAT IS.
SO I, MY MY, MY INTENTION FOR THIS IS MORE OF A, YOU KNOW, OF A SIGNAL OF VALUES OF THIS IS WHAT, WHAT WE VALUE.
SO, UM, I'M FINE, UM, TABLING IT FOR ANOTHER TIME IF THERE'S SPECIFIC, UM, YOU KNOW, CHANGES OR EDITS THAT, UH, AMENDMENTS THAT PEOPLE THINK THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE, UM, OR ADDITIONAL DATA.
UM, I DON'T THINK THERE'S A, THERE'S AN URGENCY IN IT, YOU KNOW, BASED ON WHERE WE ARE IN THE, IN THE CYCLE, BUT I'M OPEN TO, YOU KNOW, FEEDBACK FOR THAT.
NO, IT WAS DIS IT WAS DISCUSSED, UH, LAST MEETING, BUT THEN, UH, WE LOST QUORUM BEFORE THAT
I WOULD, I WOULD BE OKAY TO VOTE ON IT TONIGHT, UH, TOO, BUT I REALLY WOULD LIKE EVEN JUST LIKE SOME SORT OF FRIENDLY AMENDMENT THAT SAYS, UM, LIKE PROVIDED IT MEETS SOME MINIMUM COST EFFECTIVENESS THRESHOLD TO BE CALIBRATED LATER OR WHATEVER.
SO WE KIND OF ALL KIND OF AGREE AT SOME POINT.
UM, OKAY, SO YOU HAVE TWO OFFERED FRIENDLY AMENDMENTS, ONE ON, UH, COST EFFECTIVENESS AND ONE ON BATTERIES.
AND YOU'RE VERY GOOD AT INTEGRATING THESE THINGS.
UM, THE ONE, THE, THAT COMMISSIONER FARMER MENTIONED, SO THAT WAS, SO AFTER $15 MILLION TO SEED SOLAR ENERGY AND BATTERY STORAGE YEP.
CAN, CAN MR. GON, IF I MAY MAKE AN ATTEMPT AT YOURS, YOU THINK IT COULD BE, UM, IN THE FINAL, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED THE CERTIFIED ENERGY MANAGER BE APPOINTED TO QUANTIFY THE ENERGY COST SAVINGS AND, AND DIRECT THE INVESTMENT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? I MEAN, IT'S LIKE, I'M THINKING LIKE THAT PERSON WOULD BE A GOOD PERSON TO KIND OF STUDY WHERE IS THIS MONEY BEST SPENT TO, YOU KNOW, MAXIMIZE THE RETURN TO CREATE THE SNOWBALL EFFECT.
UM, MAYBE I WAS KIND OF THINKING AFTER WATER EFFICIENCY UPGRADES AT CITY FACILITIES, UM, PROVIDED IT MEETS A TA CERTAIN, YOU KNOW, MINIMUM COST EFFECTIVENESS THRESHOLD TO BE DETERMINED LATER DURING APPROPRIATIONS OR SOMETHING, BUT I LIKE, HONESTLY, DON'T REALLY CARE WHATEVER MAKES THE MOST SENSE TO EVERYBODY ELSE.
COMMISSIONER ZIN, COULD YOU REPEAT THAT? SO AFTER WATER ENERGY AND WATER EFFICIENCY AT CITY UPGRADES AT
[02:35:01]
CITY FACILITIES PROVIDED, UM, UH, MAYBE IT'S, UH, I, I'M SPIT BALLING HERE.PROVIDED I SHOULD HAVE COME WITH A, UH, NO, NO, NO.
A SUGGESTION THAT'S, BUT, UM, PROVIDED THE PROJECTS MEET SOME MINIMUM COST EFFECTIVENESS LEVEL, OR WAIT A SECOND, MAYBE, UH, UM, MAYBE WITH, YEAH, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW.
UM, MINIMUM COST, COST EFFECTIVENESS THRESHOLDS, UH, TO BE CALIBRATED LATER OR DURING APPROPRIATIONS OR DURING WHEN THE FUND IS SET UP.
HOW ABOUT THAT? UH, THAT MEET COST EFFECTIVENESS THRESHOLDS TO BE, UM, DETERMINED BY, UM, A CERTIFIED ENERGY MANAGER OR, YEAH.
DURING IMPLEMENTATION, EVEN JUST IN CASE THE CITY MANAGER ENERGY MANAGER ROLE DOESN'T GET SET UP OR SOMETHING.
CAN WE START, WE TALKING ABOUT MONEY, THE COST, COST EFFECTNESS FOR THE RETURN, THE PROJECT RETURNING, UH, AND LIKE, UH, DOLLAR SAVINGS OR YEAH.
SO I DON'T KNOW, WOULD IT BE AN ENERGY MANAGER OR LIKE A, MAYBE LIKE AN, UH, FINANCIAL PERSONNEL? WELL, YEAH, THE, THE CERTIFIED ENERGY MANAGER WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR, UM, YOU KNOW, QUANTIFYING THAT COST SAVINGS AND, YOU KNOW, MAKING SURE THIS, THIS IS WHAT THIS PROJECT IS BRINGING IN, AND SO THEREFORE THIS IS GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, REINVESTED, UM, TO KEEP THE FUND, UH, SUSTAINABLE AND SUSTAINABLE.
UM, SO I THINK, BUT TO HIS, BUT TO HIS POINT, THE WATER WOULDN'T FALL UNDER THE CITY ENERGY CERTIFIED ENERGY MANAGER.
THE WATER EFFICIENCY UPGRADES.
I WAS JUST KIND OF WONDERING IF IT, IF YOU COULD LEAVE IT OPEN-ENDED.
I GUESS IT DEPENDS ON WHAT, UH, IF IT'S CLEAR THAT IT'S THAT PERSONNEL, THEN, THEN THAT MAKES SENSE, BUT, AND LEAVING WHICH OPEN-ENDED SAME, LEAVING THE, THE PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ANALYSIS OPEN-ENDED.
I KIND OF LOST THIS, THE TRACK OF THE SENTENCE THOUGH, SO, OH, AT THE, IN THE, IN THE FINAL CLAUSE.
UM, SO ARE, ARE YOU SAYING, UH, LIKE NOT HAVING THAT FINAL BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED? NO, I JUST MEANT THAT I THOUGHT THAT THAT WAS THE PART THAT WE WERE ADDING WITH A CERTIFIED ENERGY MANAGER.
IF THAT, IF WE COULD LEAVE THAT OUT AND JUST SAY THAT, THAT THE PROJECTS TO BE EVALUATED, UH, YES.
SO I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA READ WHAT I THINK I HEARD AND THEN YOU GUYS CAN CORRECT ME.
UM, AND THE, THESE CHANGES, THIS FRIENDLY AMENDMENT WOULD BE IN THE FIRST, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED CLAUSE.
UM, SO NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED THAT THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF AUSTIN RECOMMENDS THAT THE AUSTIN CITY COUNCIL DIRECT CITY MANAGER TO ESTABLISH A REVOLVING SUSTAINABLE CITY FACILITIES FUNDS OF AT, OF AT LEAST 15 MILLION TO SEED SOLAR ENERGY AND BATTERY INSTALLATIONS ON CITY BUILDINGS AND OTHER CITY PROPERTIES, AND MAKE ENERGY AND WATER EFFICIENCY UPGRADES AT CITY FACILITY THAT MEET COST EFFECTIVENESS THRESHOLDS TO BE DETERMINED DURING IMPLEMENTATION.
DOES THAT WORK FOR YOU? MAYBE MINIMUM COST EFFECTIVENESS THRESHOLDS TO MEET YEAH.
THAT MEET MINIMUM COST EFFECTIVENESS THRESHOLDS TO BE DETERMINED DURING IMPLEMENTATION OR CALIBRATED INSTEAD OF DETERMINED, BUT YEAH, I LIKE THAT YOU PREFER CALIBRATED.
UM, IS THERE A, A MOTION ON THIS AMENDMENT? I MOVE, I MOVE THAT THE AMENDMENTS BE ADDED.
SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND TO APPROVE THE, THE AMENDMENT, WHICH NOW READS NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED THAT DO DOT, DOT, DOT, DOT
[02:40:01]
MINIMUM COST EFFECTIVENESS THRESHOLDS TO BE CALIBRATED DURING IMPLEMENTATION.ALL IN FAVOR OF THAT AMENDMENT? WE HAVE 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.
ALL OPPOSED? ONE OPPOSED? IT'S SIX ONE.
IS THERE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? WHO IS THE SECOND ON THAT? WAS IT FARMER? OKAY.
ANY OTHER, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS RECOMMENDATION? IF NOT, I'LL CALL FOR A VOTE.
UM, ALL IN FAVOR OF ADOPTING THE RECOMMENDATION TO CREATE A REVOLVING FUND FOR SOLAR AND ENERGY EFFICIENCY INVESTMENT ON CITY PROPERTIES.
AND ALL OPPOSED? UH, ONE OPPOSED? SO THAT, UH, RECOMMENDATION PASSES.
WE'VE SAVED THE BEST FOR LAST
UH, CAN YOU QUEUE THE PRESENTATION PLEASE? ITEM SEVEN.
[7. Discussion on natural gas utilities: fuel costs, low-income customer issues, environmental effects, clean-energy programs, and policy related issues related to them. (Sponsors: Robbins and Davis)]
ITEM SEVEN.AUSTIN'S LARGEST PROVIDER OF NATURAL GAS SERVICE WILL RENEW ITS FRANCHISE, ITS LICENSE TO OPERATE IN OCTOBER OF 2026.
THIS IS A 20 YEAR AGREEMENT, A ONCE IN A GENERATION OPPORTUNITY TO GET LONG NEEDED REFORMS. THE COMPANY'S INCREASINGLY HIGH BILLS, ITS ENVIRONMENTAL RECORD AND ITS TREATMENT OF THE POOR ARE ALL UNDER CONSIDERATION.
BACK IN MARCH, I DELIVERED MY BRIEFING ON THE COMPANY'S HIGH RATES AND SOME REASONS WHY THEY WERE OCCURRING.
I PROMISED A SECOND BRIEFING ANOTHER FINANCIAL AND POLICY RELATED ISSUES.
TONIGHT'S BRIEFING WILL TAKE ABOUT 20 MINUTES, AND I HOPE IT WILL PROVIDE YOU WITH MORE CONTEXT ON ISSUES RELATED TO THE FUTURE OF GAS SERVICES IN AUSTIN.
UH, A REFRESHER TEXAS GAS SERVICE IS PROVIDING GAS TO ABOUT 94% OF GAS CUSTOMERS IN THE AUSTIN CITY LIMITS.
THE COMPANY HAS PROPOSED THREE RATE INCREASES IN ABOUT A YEAR'S TIME.
IF THEY RECEIVE THEIR THIRD PROPOSAL, WHICH WE DISCUSSED EARLIER TONIGHT, RATES WILL HAVE GONE UP 132% SINCE 2016.
OTHER RELEVANT ISSUES THAT AFFECT THE COMPANY'S BILLS AND PERFORMANCE INCLUDE ITS HIGH FUEL COST, TAXES AND FEES, LOW INCOME BILL ASSISTANCE, AND ITS GREENWASHING OF PROGRAMS MEANT TO PROVIDE CONSERVATION AND RENEWABLE ENERGY SLIDE.
THERE ARE OTHER COMPONENTS OF THE COMPANY'S HIGH BILLS BESIDES RATES.
THEY INCLUDE FUEL AT 30% OF THE BILL, WHICH IS, I'M SORRY, UH, LET'S START OVER.
THERE ARE OTHER COMPONENTS OF THE COMPANY'S HIGH BILLS BESIDES RATES.
THEY INCLUDE FUEL AT 30% OF THE BILL, WHICH IS A PASS THROUGH COST THAT THE COMPANY DOES NOT PAY FOR TAXES AND FEES AT 7% THAT ARE ALSO A PASS THROUGH.
AND THE COMPANY'S RESIDENTIAL CONSERVATION EFFORTS AT 1%, WHICH HAS LARGELY BEEN TWISTED INTO A GLORIFIED MARKETING PROGRAM SLIDE.
THERE ARE THREE REASONS FOR HIGH FUEL COSTS THAT WE ARE EXPERIENCING NOW, RISING SUPPORT COSTS.
UH, THAT IS, UH, AND THEN THERE ARE,
[02:45:02]
UH, RIDER, UH, A RIDER FEE TO COVER THE EXCESSIVE COSTS THAT OCCURRED DURING A FEW DAYS DURING WINTER STORM URI IN 2021 AND COMPETITION FROM THE GLOBAL GAS MARKET DUE TO US EXPORTS OF A LIQUIFIED NATURAL GAS SLIDE.YOU CAN SEE FROM THIS CHART THAT THE AVERAGE COST OF FUEL FOR TEXAS GAS SERVICE GENERALLY STAYED BELOW $3 A CUBIC FOOT IN MANY YEARS, THOUGH IT SHOT UP IN 2022 AND 2023 WHEN RUSSIA CUT OFF GAS EXPORTS TO EUROPE AT THE START OF THE WAR WITH UKRAINE.
THE US IS NOW THE LARGEST GAS EXPORTING NATION IN THE WORLD.
AND TEXAS NATURAL GAS CAN FETCH A JAW DROPPING PRICE WHEN, UH, EUROPE IS ON THE VERGE OF FREEZING SLIDE.
HOWEVER, THE, UH, SUPPORT COSTS FOR GAS HAVE ALSO BEEN RISING.
UH, WINTER STORAGE COST TO ENSURE PEAK DEMAND HAVE INCREASED AND RESERVATION IN DEMAND CHARGES.
DANNY, ARE YOU ON? I WAS ABOUT TO ASK.
CAN YOU CAN'T HEAR THEM EITHER,
LET ME TEXT, UH, SOMEONE AND LET THEM KNOW THAT WE CANNOT HEAR THEM.
UH, MAYBE I COULD DO HAND PUPPETS.
UM, CAN SOMEONE ADVISE ME ON A TECHNICAL WAY FORWARD HERE? I MEAN, I THINK WE'D HAVE TO DO EXACTLY WHAT WE DID BEFORE.
IS THIS GETTING RECORDED? OUR AUDIO? IT IS, BUT IF WE LOSE QUORUM, THEN WE CAN'T KEEP GOING.
UH, COMMISSIONER, UM, SIGON, UH, ARE SHE CAN'T HEAR YOU.
SHE'S NOT A, UM, IT'S ALMOST NINE.
YOU WANNA TRY AND MAKE CAN GET THAT GOING? I'LL WAIT.
IF YOU'RE ASKING ME, ARE WE TAKING ANOTHER BREAK? YEAH.
WE DON'T HAVE QUORUM RIGHT NOW.
CAN WE MOVE THE, SHE RESPONDED TO MY EMAIL EARLIER, SO I'LL EMAIL HER AGAIN.
UM, KIND OF LIKE TO KNOW WHEN THEY LOST COMMUNICATION.
'CAUSE I DON'T KNOW HOW FAR BACK TO GO.
ARE WE BACK ONLINE? WE ARE, BUT WE'RE, THEY'RE NOT BACK.
[02:50:44]
LET'S SEE.WE CAN DEFINITELY ADD IT TO THE NEXT AGENDA IF THAT'S WHAT YOU GUYS WANNA DO.
I, I THINK AT THIS POINT, EVEN IF WE GET BACK ON, I THINK THE ENERGY LEVEL IS WANING.
I'D PREFER TO DO IT IF DANIELLE COMES BACK, BUT IF SHE DOESN'T.
UM, JUST FOR THE RECORD, I'VE SPENT FOUR DAYS PUTTING THIS TOGETHER.
I, I KNOW, AND I WANT, I WANT TO GIVE IT MY FULL ATTENTION.
I THINK IT DESERVES THE COMMISSION'S FULL ATTENTION.
UM,
WE'LL PUT THAT ON, UH, HIGH, HIGH ON THE AGENDA FOR AUGUST.