* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [CALL TO ORDER ] [00:00:02] MEETING TO ORDER AT 6 0 5. OCTOBER 25TH, 2025. UH, ROLL CALL, VICE CHAIR MINORS HERE. UH, COMMISSIONER ARULA. COMMISSIONER CARROLL. PRESENT. COMMISSIONER GILLES. COMMISSIONER HOWARD. HERE. COMMISSIONER KAHN. COMMISSIONER LADNER. UH, COMMISSIONER MCKINNEY. PRESENT. COMMISSIONER MEKI. AND COMMISSIONER TRO. ALL RIGHT. SO IS THERE ANY PUBLIC COMMUNICATION CHAIR? THERE IS NO PUBLIC COMMUNICATION TODAY. ALL RIGHT. IS [APPROVAL OF MINUTES ] IT EVERYONE HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT THE, UH, MEETING MINUTES? I DON'T SEE THEM ON HERE. AM I MISSING THEM? CHAIR? I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES. OH, THE, SORRY. UM, I HAVE A SECOND. COMMISSIONER ULA. UM, ALRIGHT. ALL IN FAVOR TO APPROVE THE MEETING MINUTES FROM OUR LAST MEETING. AYE. AYE. ALL RIGHT. ANY OPPOSED? NO. ALL RIGHT. MINUTES APPROVED. SORRY. IT'S RIGHT HERE. I SEE IT. [2. Staff briefing regarding the update to the Urban Design Guidelines. Presented by Jorge Rousselin, Planning Department.] STAFF BRIEFING. UM, OUR FIRST ITEM, STAFF BRIEFING REGARDING THE UPDATE, UH, TO THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES PRESENTED BY JORGE . JORGE, THE FLOOR IS YOURS. THANK YOU, CHAIR COMMISSIONER. IT'S GOOD EVENING. JORGE LAN, EXECUTIVE LIAISON TO THE COMMISSION. WHAT WE ARE BRINGING BEFORE YOU THIS EVENING IS A, A SAMPLING OF THE NEXT ITERATION OF OUR ATTEMPT TO START TO PUT TOGETHER YOUR DRAFT GUIDELINES INTO A WORKABLE INDESIGN DOCUMENT. IT'S BEEN A VERY CHALLENGING AND QUITE BIT OF WORK. UH, WE'RE DOWN TO DESIGNERS IN THE URBAN DESIGN DIVISION, AND SO, UH, WE WERE JOINED BY MR. STEVEN CRUZ, WHO'S JOINED US, UH, AS A SENIOR PLANNER ON A TEAM ON A TEMPORARY BASIS. AND SO WE'RE GOING THROUGH A RECRUITMENT PROCESS IN OUR DIVISION TO RECRUIT FOR THE POSITION THAT SOPHIA HAD, AS WELL AS THE ONE THAT JASPER HAD. SO, GIVEN THAT IT IS GOING TO TAKE US MORE TIME TO FULLY DEVELOP THE SCOPE OF THE, OR OF PLACING THE ACTUAL GUIDELINES INTO AN INDESIGN DOCUMENT, SO WHAT YOU HAD BEFORE YOU AND ALSO IN BACKUP IS, IS AN INITIAL SAMPLING OF HOW THE GUIDELINES COULD BEGIN TO EMERGE USING WHAT YOU HAD REFERENCED IN A PREVIOUS DISCUSSION, THE LOS ANGELES DESIGN GUIDELINES AS AS INSPIRATION. AND SO WE'VE TAKEN THE LIBERTY OF JUST PUTTING TOGETHER SOME CONCEPTS AS TO WHAT COULD BE THE STARTING EVOLUTION OF, UH, SOME OF YOUR GUIDELINE. NOW, PLEASE NOTE THIS IS NOT THE FINAL VERSION. THIS IS TO GIVE YOU AN UPDATE AND TO GATHER SOME FEEDBACK AND BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND IF WE'RE HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION BEFORE WE TAKE ANOTHER CRACK AT, UH, DEVELOPING ADDITIONAL LAYOUTS. THAT WOULD BE AN INDESIGN DOCUMENT. AND SO ONE, ONE OF THE THINGS WE STARTED TO DO IS KIND OF MIX WITH OTHER CONCEPTS THAT WE FOUND FOR NEW YORK CITY, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT CAN GIVE IT THE AUSTIN, UH, CHARACTER. AND SO THERE'S A WAY FOR US, EXCUSE ME, TO INCORPORATE SOME OF THOSE DESIGN CONCEPTS, BUT I'M GONNA TURN IT OVER TO MY COLLEAGUE, UH, MR. STEVEN CRUZ, WHO CAN WALK YOU THROUGH SOME OF THE CONCEPTUAL, UH, DESIGN ELEMENTS HE'S COME UP WITH. HEY EVERYBODY. I'M STEVEN CRUZ, SENIOR URBAN PLANNER. PRETTY NEW HERE. UH, SO WHEN I WAS MAKING THESE, I I JUST FOCUSED ON, UH, KIND OF THE, THE CRUCIAL DIVIDING ELEMENTS, SO KIND OF SUBTITLE PAGE, INTRODUCTORY PAGE, AND THEN LIKE AN EXAMPLE SORT OF FOR THAT PRINCIPLE PAGE. SO THIS ONE, UH, KIND OF GOES BY THE LA STANDARD USING, UH, KIND OF A 50 50 GRAPHIC IN TEXT, UH, SORT OF PAGE. AND THEN THE NEXT FULLY KIND OF ARTICULATING THE GUIDELINE, GIVING DIAGRAMMATIC EXAMPLES, AND THEN PHOTOGRAPHIC EXAMPLES. UH, THE NEXT ONE MORE IN THE NEW YORK VEIN OF THINGS, A BIG KIND OF GRAPHIC, UH, THAT THEY'VE DONE IN SORT OF A CARTOON SORT OF WAY WITH THESE LITTLE CHARACTERS KIND OF EXPLAINING [00:05:01] THE DIFFERENT PRINCIPLES. UH, THAT'S JUST A DIFFERENT GRAPHIC STYLE THAT I THOUGHT LOOKED AWESOME. AND THEN THIS PAGE KIND OF SIMILAR VEIN, HAVING A GRAPHIC THAT ARTICULATES THE GUIDELINE THAT'S BEING DICTATED BELOW IT. AND THEN FOR, FOR A THIRD OPTION, GOING MORE GRAPHIC HEAVY AND, UH, HAVING THAT KIND OF BE THE, THE FOCUS WITH, WITH THE DESCRIPTOR BEING SUBORDINATE. AND, UH, JUST A FEW EXAMPLES OF THAT. SO, CHAIR AND COMMISSIONERS, AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE'S AMPLE OPPORTUNITY TO BE AS, AS SKETCHY AS POSSIBLE IF YOU WISH TO PROCEED WITH A CONCEPT LIKE THIS OR BE MORE REALISTIC USING PHOTOGRAPHS AS A BEGINNING POINT AND CREATE SOMETHING LIKE THIS, OR EVEN LIKE THAT, THAT LOOKS A LITTLE BIT MORE, MUCH MORE SKETCHY AND MORE DESIGNY. I, I WOULD CAUTION AGAINST USING PHOTOGRAPHS AS A BACKGROUND, EVEN THOUGH I ACTUALLY, I LOVE THIS CONCEPT RIGHT HERE ON YOUR SCREEN, BUT, BUT IT LOOKS A, A BIT TOO REAL THAT PERHAPS THE, THERE'S A WAY TO CONSIDER, YOU KNOW, USING BOTH AND THEN BEING ABLE TO MIX THE CONCEPT WITH SOME SKETCHES. IT LOOKS MUCH MORE DESIGNY AND LESS COMMITTED TO A ACTUAL PLACE, EVEN THOUGH WE CAN USE THE REFERENCE OF ACTUAL PLACES TO BE ABLE TO SKETCH OVER THAT. SO, UH, MR. CRUZ HAS A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF TALENT TO BE ABLE TO SKETCH, UM, IN, IN 3D CONCEPTS LIKE YOU'RE SEEING HERE ON THE SCREEN. SO WE WANT TO UTILIZE THAT AS A PROPOSAL FOR YOU ALL TO CONSIDER. THAT'S ABOUT THE EXTENT OF OUR BRIEFING THIS AFTERNOON, THIS EVENING. BUT CHAIR, WE WOULD APPRECIATE SOME GUIDANCE AND BRIEF DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER YOU FEEL THAT ANY OR SOME OF THESE CONCEPTS ARE HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION AND, AND HOW YOU WISH TO GIVE STAFF DIRECTION TO CONTINUE FORMULATING ADDITIONAL DESIGN CONCEPTS AND LAYOUTS FOR THE ACTUAL, UH, IMPLEMENTATION OF THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES INTO A INDESIGN DOCUMENT. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRESENTATION. UM, ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS THAT, UH, Y'ALL HAVE RIGHT OFF THE BAT? COMMISSIONER CARROLL. THANK YOU, CHAIR. UM, THANK YOU FOR THIS WORK. IT'S, IT'S EXCITING TO SEE SOME IMAGES TO PROVIDE FEEDBACK ON. I, I LIKE BOTH CONCEPTS, BUT I PARTICULARLY LIKE THE, THE CARTOONY IMAGE. IN FACT, WHEN, WHEN JORGE SAID, YOU KNOW, AUSTIN LIKE, AND I SAW THIS IMAGE, IT ACTUALLY MADE ME THINK OF WAKING LIFE THAT, THAT MOVIE, UH, THAT WAS SHOT AROUND AUSTIN. UM, I ALSO LIKE THE SKETCHES AND I AGREE WITH, WITH YOUR COMMENT OF, UM, NOT MAKING IT LOOK TOO REAL, THAT, UH, WE REALLY JUST WANNA HIGHLIGHT WHAT, WHAT THE GUIDELINE'S ABOUT, AND THEN LET LET THE DESIGN TEAMS DECIDE HOW TO, HOW TO MAKE IT REAL. SO I THINK THE SKETCHES, UH, CAN BE AN EFFECTIVE TOOL THE WAY THEY'RE BEING USED. I, I WASN'T CLEAR, THERE'S ONE PAGE WITH FOUR GUIDELINES IN SMALL SKETCHES, AND THEN THERE'S THE LARGER PAGES WITH ONE SKETCH AND ONE GUIDELINE ARE THOSE DIFFERENT OPTIONS BEING PROPOSED IN THAT CASE, EVEN THOUGH IT'S MORE PAPER, I, I WOULD KIND OF LEAN TOWARDS THE ONES THAT'S JUST ONE GUIDELINE PER PAGE, UH, THAT I FEEL LIKE IT'S, UH, EASIER TO, TO FOCUS ON EACH GUIDELINE THAT WAY, UM, AND UNDERSTAND VERSUS THE, THE SMALLER ONES. UM, HER LITTLE, YEAH, JUST TO, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION REALLY QUICKLY, THOSE WERE DIFFERENT OPTIONS. YEAH. OH, APOLOGIES. CHAIR. MAY I, . BUT YEAH, THAT'S, I MEAN, THAT'S MY FEEDBACK. I THINK, UH, I LIKE THE DIRECTION IT'S GOING AND, UH, I DON'T DISLIKE THE FIRST ONE THAT YOU DESCRIBED AS THE NEW YORK CONCEPT EITHER. I, I MEAN, I THINK IT'S, [00:10:02] IT WORKS, BUT MAYBE I SLIGHTLY PREFER THE I THE SECOND ONE. YEAH, THAT'S IT. COMMISSIONER, COMMISSIONER MCKINNEY. YEAH, I JUST WANTED TO ECHO WHAT DAVID SAID. I AGREE WITH HIM ON THE, I I REALLY LIKED THE CARTOON IDEA, AND I THINK MY ONLY FEEDBACK ON, UM, IF THE GUIDELINE, IF EACH GUIDELINE IS GONNA BE ON A SHEET, THAT MAY BE, 'CAUSE THE, THE GRAPHICS ON THE SINGLE SHEETS ARE VERY DOMINATING. UM, AND THERE WAS SOME NUMBERS THAT WERE TIED TO THINGS THAT I, I DIDN'T QUITE UNDERSTAND. AND I KNOW THEY'RE NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT FINISHED YET, BUT I THINK THOSE SHEETS, SOME OF 'EM, THE TEXT IS LIKE SHOVED REALLY FAR OFF. AND THIS IS SORT OF A TECHNICAL DOCUMENT, SO I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THE GRAPHIC AND THE TEXT HAVE EQUAL WEIGHT AND THAT IT'S ACCESSIBLE FOR A LOT OF TIMES THE LAND USE ATTORNEYS THAT ARE UTILIZING THIS DOCUMENT, THAT IT'S CLEAR THE ACTUAL REQUIREMENTS AND NOT SO MUCH JUST THE GRAPHIC. AND THEN THE COVER SHEET HAS THE, THE WOMAN, THE, THE, THE THE PERSON SITTING ON A BENCH, UH, WITH SOME PLANTERS ADJACENT TO IT. AND I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING WE SHOW IN THE GRAPHIC IS SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE ACCEPTED BY URBAN DESIGN. AND I MEAN, I'VE HAD FEEDBACK ON PROJECTS FROM JILL ESMA THAT PLANTERS WILL NO LONGER BE ACCEPTED. SO I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WHAT WE'RE SHOWING IN THE BOOK, IN THE, IN THE GUIDELINES IS EVERYTHING THAT WOULD BE ACCEPTED AS PART OF THE GUIDELINES, UM, BY THE URBAN DESIGN DEPARTMENT. SO, UM, IT'S, IT'S A DOCUMENT THAT'S GONNA BE TAKEN VERY LITERALLY. SO IF WE SHOW IT, IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE SOMETHING THAT IS ACCEPTED. UM, BUT YEAH, I, THE GRAPHICS ARE BEAUTIFUL AND I ECHO DAVID'S SENTIMENT THAT I'M VERY EXCITED TO SEE IT COMING TO FRUITION. COMMISSIONER CAROL. UM, AND JUST TO CLARIFY, THIS IS REALLY JUST TO SHOW WHAT A GRAPHIC LAYOUT COULD BE AND NOT NECESSARILY, 'CAUSE THERE THERE'S CONTENT THAT'S, THAT'S MISSING, I WOULD SAY, BUT IT'S NOT WHAT THIS IS ABOUT, RIGHT? I, IF I MAY CHAIR. YES, THANK YOU. THAT'S CORRECT. COMMISSIONER, IT, IT IS JUST A, A PROPOSAL FOR THE GRAPHIC LAYOUT. THE INTENT IS NOW TO START PLACING ACTUAL GUIDELINES FROM YOUR DRAFT DOCUMENT THAT IS PART OF BACKUP THIS EVENING THAT WE'LL TALK ABOUT HERE. JUST BRIEFLY, JUST GETTING GUIDANCE FROM, AND THIS IS EXCELLENT FEEDBACK THAT WE'RE GETTING THIS EVENING THUS FAR. AND, AND I REALIZE THERE'S OTHER COMMISSIONERS THAT MAY WANNA PROVIDE ADDITIONAL COMMENT. AND SO THE, THE INTENT WAS JUST TO GIVE YOU SOME MOCKUPS, SOME CONCEPTUAL, UM, DESIGNS SO THAT YOU, YOU KIND OF GET TO START, UH, TO GET A FEEL OF HOW THE EVENTUAL LAYOUT COULD LOOK LIKE. NOW KEEP IN MIND THAT EVEN AFTER WE ARE SUCCESSFUL IN COMPLETING A, A FIRST DRAFT OF IT, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IT WOULD BE A FIRST DRAFT. AND THEN YOU WOULD HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL COMMENTARY AND DIRECTION THE STAFF ON CHANGES YOU MAY WISH TO SEE. I THINK WHAT COMMISSIONER MCKINNEY POINTED OUT IS EXTREMELY ACCURATE TO BE ABLE TO DEPICT ACTUAL STANDARDS THAT WOULD BE APPLIED. AND SO OUR INTENTION WASN'T TO SHOW YOU SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE FINALIZED BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION, BUT TO GIVE YOU A FEEL FOR WHAT THE VISUAL ASPECT AND APPROACH WOULD BE TO AN EVENTUAL, UH, FIRST DRAFT OF THE GUIDELINES PUT TOGETHER INTO A PROFESSIONAL LAYOUT. UM, YEAH, THANK YOU FOR THIS WORK. IT'S, IT'S, UH, GREAT. THE, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE SHOULD TAKE ADVANTAGE OF YOUR SKETCHING SKILLS WHILE WE'VE GOT YOU, UM, DEPENDING ON HOW TEMPORARY YOUR STAY IS, WE SHOULD GET THIS DONE RIGHT AWAY. UM, UH, AND SO I THINK THAT'S A GREAT WAY TO DEPICT IT. I, I THINK THIS IS ALL REALLY GREAT. I THINK, UM, I ECHO WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE HAS BEEN SAYING. I THINK, UH, THE NEW YORK STYLE AS FAR AS THE WAY THAT IT, UM, PRESENTS THE TEXT AND THE KIND OF VISUAL HIERARCHY THERE IS, IS PRETTY GOOD. AND SO IF YOU DID A KIND OF LIKE A COMBINATION OF THAT WITH YOUR KIND OF GRAPHIC, UM, DIAGRAMMING SKETCH, UH, QUALITY THAT YOU HAVE ON SOME ON, FOR EXAMPLE, SLIDE SEVEN, UM, AND MAYBE, MAYBE JUST [00:15:01] KIND OF CREATING A, A SIMPLE STRUCTURE THAT'S MORE LIKE, YOU KNOW, TWO THIRDS, ONE THIRD AND LEAVING ONE THIRD FOR TEXT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. UM, I THINK THERE'S ALSO AN OPPORTUNITY TO SEPARATE THE EXAMPLES OUT AS KIND OF A DIFFERENT TYPE OF TEXT. SO IF YOU TREAT THE CONDITIONS AS WHAT THE, THE CORE OF THE GUIDELINE IS ABOUT, AND THE EXAMPLES IS JUST BEING KIND OF LIKE A CALL OUT OF, UH, IT COULD EVEN RUN AT THE BOTTOM IF YOU ENDED UP WITH TOO MUCH VERTICAL SPACE. UM, SO, BUT THERE, THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO TREAT THOSE DIFFERENT TYPES OF INFORMATION WITH A DIFFERENT SORT OF GRAPHIC APPROACH. UM, UH, BUT I THINK THAT KIND OF A COMBINATION THAT KIND OF, THAT BLENDS THE VISUAL HIERARCHY OF THE TEXT FROM, FROM THE, UH, NEW YORK WITH YOUR, UM, LIKE A OF VER VARI, UH, A VARIETY OF, UM, OR A VERSION OF YOUR SLIDE SEVEN, UM, EXAMPLE, UH, WOULD BE, WOULD BE REALLY GREAT. UM, AND YEAH, AND MAYBE LOOKING AT EXAMPLES OF SEPARATE TYPE. UH, AND THEN I JUST WANTED, YOU KNOW, I KNOW THIS ISN'T COMPLETE INFORMATION, I JUST DID JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE HAD SOME SORT OF LIKE STANDARD, SOMEWHAT GRAPHIC APPROACH TO IDENTIFYING, UH, APPLICABILITY OF THE GUIDELINE AND THE TIER OF THE GUIDELINE. THAT'S IT FOR ME. COMMISSIONER, YOU YEAH. CHAIR, HAVE A, FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WONDERFUL WORK THAT'S GOING ON. UM, REGARDING THE CONDITIONS, AT SOME POINT WE'LL PROBABLY BE EVALUATING, UH, THE PROPOSALS AS THEY COME IN WITH RESPECT TO THE CONDITIONS. IT'LL BE GOOD TO SEE IF SOME OF THEM CAN BE OBJECTIVE OR SOME KIND OF A ENUMERATED WAY WHERE WE CAN SAY, ASSIGN SOME SCORES AS WE GO THROUGH. SO SINCE THE CONTENT IS NOT FINAL AS SOMETHING FOR THAT TO THINK ABOUT, UH, INSTEAD OF SAYING IT IN GENERIC TERMS, MAYBE, YOU KNOW, UH, GIVE THEM SOME, SOME GUIDANCE RELATED TO THE SCORING OF HOW WE WOULD BE DOING THAT. OH, THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER MCKINNEY, I HAD A QUESTION ON PROCESS OF THIS. SO THE URBAN DESIGN DEPARTMENT IS PUTTING TOGETHER THIS DOCUMENT AND IT WILL BE ISSUED AS A DRAFT. DOES THAT DRAFT FIRST GO BACK TO THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES WORKING GROUP FOR LIKE A FIRST PASS AT COMMENTS? UM, SINCE WE WERE THE GROUP THAT WAS MOST INTIMATELY FAMILIAR WITH IT, OR DOES IT GO TO THE COMMISSION AS A WHOLE FOR COMMENTS? SORRY. THANK YOU CHAIR. UH, THE, THE INTENT COMMISSIONER MCKINNEY IS TO BRING IT BACK TO THE FULL COMMISSION. NOW THAT THE DRAFT GUIDELINES ARE POSTED AS BACKUP, THEN NOW THE COMMISSION HAS THE ABILITY TO DISCUSS A, ANY FUNCTION OF THE DRAFT GUIDELINES. SO THE REASON WE POSTED THAT THROUGH, UH, COORDINATION WITH THE CHAIR IS TO GIVE YOU THE ABILITY THEN TO HAVE DISCUSSIONS AND OPEN MEETINGS ABOUT WHETHER IT BE THE LAYOUT, CONTENT, GRAPHICS, A ANY FUNCTION OF THE GUIDELINES THEMSELVES. SO TAKING IT BACK TO THE WORKING GROUP WOULD PUT IT BACK IN A WORKING GROUP SETTING THAT WOULD THEN HAVE TO COME OUT OF WORKING GROUP BACK AGAIN. AND THERE ARE, UH, A NUMBER OF COMMISSIONERS THAT WERE NOT PART OF THE WORKING GROUP THAT DID NOT HAVE THE BENEFIT OF HAVING A DISCUSSION WITH OTHER FELLOW COMMISSIONERS ON THE CONTENT, THE, THE LAYOUT, UH, THE, THE SCORING SYSTEM AS WAS BROUGHT UP THIS EVENING. SO, SO THE INTENT FROM STAFF WAS TO, UH, BE ABLE TO PROVIDE YOU WITH THE TOOLS TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION IN OPEN FORUM STAFF WOULDN'T RECOMMEND YOU TAKE THAT BACK TO THE WORKING GROUP. 'CAUSE THEN IT CREATES THAT DISCONNECT FROM THE REST OF THE COMMISSION. THANK YOU CHAIR. SO IS THE WORKING GROUP, I MEAN, WE STILL HAVE THE WORKING GROUP. WE'RE ACTUALLY GONNA VOTE ON INCLUDING ANOTHER MEMBER TODAY WHO'S NOT HERE. BUT ARE YOU SAYING THAT WE, OR DO WE, WE STILL KEEP THE WORKING GROUP? OR DO, ARE YOU SAYING THAT WE NEED TO DISSOLVE THAT, IF I MAY CHAIR? YES. STAFF CAN'T GIVE YOU DIRECTION ON WHAT TO DO WITH THE WORKING GROUP. YOU CAN STILL KEEP IT, YOU CAN STILL USE IT FOR CERTAIN THINGS, BUT WHATEVER RECOMMENDATION IS FORMULATED AT THE WORKING GROUP NEEDS TO COME OUT TO THE FULL BODY. OKAY. SO JUST LIKE WE POSTED BACK UP AND IT SAYS DRAFT ON THERE, IT SAYS WORKING DRAFT ON THE GUIDELINES, ANY RECOMMENDATIONS COULD COME OUT AS A WORKING DRAFT AS WELL. SO IF YOU WISH TO SEND IT BACK TO THE WORKING GROUP, IT'LL JUST HAVE TO COME BACK OUT FROM THE WORKING GROUP. OKAY. COMMISSIONER CARROLL, THANK YOU CHAIR. YEAH, THE, THE ORIGINAL THOUGHT WAS THAT THE WORKING GROUP WOULD REMAIN, UH, AND PICK UP [00:20:01] COMMENTS FROM DRAFT ONE AND HELP CREATE DRAFT TWO SECOND DRAFT. UM, AND ALSO THAT THIS DRAFT ONE THAT IS, IT'S A PUBLIC DRAFT, SO IT'LL BE FOR DESIGN, COMMISSION COMMENT, BUT IT'LL BE FOR PUBLIC COMMENT AS WELL. AND THEN ALL OF THOSE COMMENTS WOULD BE COLLECTED AND INTEGRATED INTO THE NEXT DRAFT. YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I WAS ENVISIONING IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THE WORKING GROUP TAKES ALL THAT INFORMATION AND, AND PUTS IT OUT AS THAT NEXT DRAFT. AND SO YEAH, WE DEFINITELY NEED TO KEEP IT. UM, AND, AND IF I MAY CHAIR, YES, WE'RE NOT OFFERING THE PUBLIC TO COMMENT ON THE DRAFT THAT'S POSTED THIS EVENING. OKAY. THAT, THAT'S AN INTERNAL WORKING DRAFT FOR THE COMMISSION. AND IT'S TO GIVE YOU A PLATFORM AND AN OPEN MEETING TO HAVE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT ANY PORTION OF THE GUIDELINES. NOW THE PUBLIC MAY CHOOSE TO PROVIDE COMMENTS AND THAT'S FINE. WE'RE JUST NOT AT THE PHASE THAT WE ARE ACCEPTING PUBLIC COMMENT JUST YET, BECAUSE EVENTUALLY IT'LL GO BACK TO THE WORKING GROUP FOR ADDITIONAL, UH, SCRUTINY, PERHAPS REWRITE OF CERTAIN ELEMENTS OF THE GUIDELINES, AND THEN COME BACK TO THE COMMISSION. AT WHICH POINT WE WOULD ASSUME THAT THE COMMISSION MAY BE READY TO COMMENCE PUBLIC OUTREACH AND ENGAGEMENT ON THE ACTUAL TEXT ITSELF. GOTCHA. THANK YOU, CHAIR. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? OR COMMISSIONER MCKINNEY? SO IS TONIGHT THE VENUE TO PROVIDE SOME, LIKE ALL OF OUR GRAPHIC FEEDBACK ON WHAT YOU HAVE PRESENTED TO THE COMMISSION TONIGHT, SO THAT AS YOU MOVE FORWARD, I WOULD ASSUME THAT ANY, UM, FEEDBACK WE GIVE YOU TONIGHT WILL BE PERPETUATED THROUGHOUT THE DOCUMENT. UM, IS THAT THE CASE? SURE. IF I MAY. YES. THANK YOU. UH, NO, COMMISSIONER MCKINNEY TO TONIGHT IS NOT THE FINAL. THIS IS THE COMMENCEMENT OF THAT FEEDBACK LOOP. SO YOU'RE WELCOME TO PROVIDE STAFF ADDITIONAL COMMENTARY OR GUIDANCE IF YOU LIKE, THROUGH OUR ADMINISTRATIVE LIAISON SO THAT THAT COULD BE SHARED WITH THE ENTIRETY OF THE COMMISSION AS WELL. WE DON'T ENCOURAGE YOU TO HAVE CORRESPONDENCE OBVIOUSLY BETWEEN EACH OTHER. THAT WOULD BE A WALKING QUORUM. BUT STARTING TONIGHT, YOU CAN PROVIDE ADDITIONAL COMMENTARY IF YOU WISH. NOW, GIVEN THAT YOU HAVE THAT AS PART OF BACKUP, AND THEN YOU CAN PROVIDE SPECIFIC PAGE NUMBERS AS WE'RE REFERENCED THIS EVENING, UH, AND GIVE US ADDITIONAL FEEDBACK. SO THERE'S NOT A LIMIT ON THAT, BUT WE WILL COMMENCE, UH, MAKING CHANGES AND IMPROVEMENTS ON THE DRAFT LAYOUT BASED ON WHAT WE'VE HEARD THIS EVENING AND ADDITIONAL COMMENTS THAT YOU MAY WANT TO SUBMIT THROUGH OUR ADMINISTRATIVE LIAISON, MS. CORONA, TO BE ABLE TO CAPTURE THAT. OKAY. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER TRO CHAIR, THE BODY. APOLOGIES FOR MY TARDINESS AND, UH, APOLOGIES IF I'M GONNA SAY SOMETHING THAT SOMEONE ALREADY SAID. UH, APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THE DRAFT. I DID SO AHEAD OF THE MEETING. UM, I I WANTED TO SHARE THAT, UH, OVERWHELMINGLY AS FAR AS, UH, IF I'M UNDERSTANDING THE DRAFT CORRECTLY, UH, FROM A GRAPHIC DESIGN STANDPOINT, I FEEL LIKE THE, UH, GRAPHIC DESIGN PROPOSED IN THE PRINCIPLE TO ACTIVATE AND ENGAGE THE PUBLIC REALM IS, UM, THE STRONGEST. I PARTICULARLY LIKE PAGE, UH, LET'S SEE WHAT PAGE NUMBER THIS IS, UM, PAGE SIX OF THE DOCUMENT THAT HAS FOUR GUIDELINES AT ONCE. I APPRECIATE IT FOR ITS, UM, BREVITY AND, UM, ABILITY TO PUT A LOT OF INFORMATION VERY, VERY CLOSELY. I THINK THIS DOCUMENT WILL BENEFIT THE USER GROUP THE MOST BY BEING, UH, SUCCINCT AND, AND EASY TO, TO ORGANIZE. AND I APPRECIATE THAT THIS, THIS FORMAT ORGANIZES THE GUIDELINES AROUND THE, THE, THE, THE CORE PRINCIPLE VERY NICELY. SO I WANTED TO SHARE THE FEEDBACK THAT I THOUGHT THAT WAS A PARTICULARLY STRONG EXAMPLE, THE GRAPHICS, UM, UH, AND, UH, EMPHASIZE THAT I THINK THE, THE, THE DEGREE TO WHICH IT IS CONCISE AND PROVIDES A LOT OF INFORMATION ON JUST A FEW NUMBER OF PAGES IS WHAT IT, WHAT DRAWS ME TO IT. SO THANK YOU FOR THIS. ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS FORMAT AND WHAT IT'S PRESENTED TODAY? UM, MY 2 CENTS IS, I AGREE, I AGREE, UM, WITH THIS GRAPHIC REPRESENTATION AND I THINK THE, I GO IN BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, THIS FOUR IMAGE AND THIS ONE IMAGE. AND, AND I, I WANT SOMETHING IN BETWEEN LIKE A TWO IMAGE PAGE. UM, I FEEL LIKE THE ONE IMAGE, THE SINGLE IMAGE PAGES, UM, YEAH, ARE VERY GRAPHIC HEAVY. UM, AND I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER HOWARD ABOUT, UH, GRAPHICALLY [00:25:01] REPRESENTING THAT TEXT. UM, KINDA SHOWS SOME SORT OF HIERARCHY. UH, BUT OVERALL THIS IS VERY EXCITING TO SEE. UM, I WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT SCHEDULE, UM, AS FAR AS MOVING FORWARD. I KNOW YOU GUYS ARE UNDERSTAFFED RIGHT NOW, BUT IF YOU HAVE A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT YOU THINK THE SCHEDULE'S GONNA BE LIKE, THIS IS A LOT OF INFORMATION I KNOW, BUT MOVING FORWARD, UH, REALISTICALLY CHAIR, IF I MAY, YES. UH, YOU'RE LOOKING AT AT LEAST A FEW MONTHS FOR US TO COMPLETE THE DRAFT. UH, THERE'S MORE THAN LIKELY GONNA BE PLACEHOLDERS FOR SOME OF THESE IMAGES IF YOU STILL WANT TO USE, SAY, PHOTOS, FOR EXAMPLE. IF YOU WANT DIAGRAMMING, IT'S JUST GONNA TAKE LONGER. 'CAUSE WE HAVE TO, WE LIKE OUR EXPERTS HAVE TO SKETCH THOSE OUT AND, AND IT'S VERY TIME CONSUMING AS YOU CAN IMAGINE. AND SO I DON'T HAVE A GRASP ON THE TIMELINE. IT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO DISCUSS INTERNALLY. UM, BECAUSE UH, MR. CRUZ IS ALSO WORKING ON NUMEROUS OTHER URBAN DESIGN PROJECTS. SO WE HAVE TO BALANCE THAT LOAD. BUT THE MINIMUM YOU ARE LOOKING AT A FEW MONTHS BEFORE THAT'S READY TO GO. FEW MONTHS AS IN TALKING ABOUT 4 3 3, 3 MONTHS. THREE MONTHS, YES. OKAY. UM, WE USE THAT AS A MINIMUM STANDARD, NOT THE MAXIMUM. I HEAR YOU. SO I THINK THAT FOR ME, THE USE OF PHOTOS IS DIFFICULT 'CAUSE YOU DON'T GET A GOOD DEPTH OF FEEL OF IT AND YOU DON'T GET A GOOD ANGLE FOR WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO SHOW A LOT OF TIMES. AND THEY GET EXTREMELY DATED REALLY FAST. CORRECT. SO I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY ELSE HAS ANY COMMENTS ON PHOTOS. UM, COMMISSIONER MEKI, I JUST WANNA ECHO THIS. UM, I BELIEVE THE GRAPHICS WILL ALLOW US A LOT MORE FLEXIBILITY AND, UM, IF THERE'S ANY KIND OF INNOVATION WE WANNA REFLECT, WE CAN DO IT. IF IT'S NOT BUILT OUT YET RIGHT. WE CAN REFLECT IT IN THE GRAPHICS. SO DEFINITELY ECHO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. THANK YOU. AND IF I MAY SHARE, THERE'S A WAY FOR US TO CONVERT PHOTOS INTO A SKETCHY TYPE IMAGE. AND SO YOU SAW THAT IN ONE OF THE CONCEPTS MM-HMM . AND SO WE, WE CAN, WE CAN USE A PHOTO AS A, AS A BASIS FOR CREATING A SKETCH IMAGE. UM, I KEEP SAYING WE LIKE, LIKE I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING, BUT IT'S REALLY OUR DESIGN EXPERT WHO, WHO CAN DO THIS. AND SO WE'LL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO WORK WITH THE WORKING GROUP AND THE COMMISSION ON FINE TUNING. AND I THINK THAT'S GONNA BE MORE OF THE CRITICAL WORK AS THE DRAFT EMERGES. AND IF WE'RE AT A PLACE WHERE WE FEEL WE CAN SHARE MORE PAGES OF THE LAYOUT, WE CAN CERTAINLY BRING THAT BACK IN THE INTERIM CHAIR SO THAT YOU CAN SEE THE EVOLUTION OF IT. WE WANT THIS TO CONTINUE TO BE A DIALOGUE BY WHICH THE COMMISSION IS AN ACTIVE MEMBER IN PROVIDING GUIDANCE. SO IN THE END, IT'S REALLY A SHARED DOCUMENT AND YOU HAVE SHARED OWNERSHIP, UH, BY WHICH YOU COULD BE PROUD TO SHOW THAT OFF TO, TO THE PUBLIC AND COMMENCE YOUR PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT. WELL, IT LOOKS GREAT. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR SHOWING US THIS TODAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS, COMMISSIONER HOWARD? UM, IN, IN, UH, IN HOPES OF SAVING TIME IN THE ITERATIVE SORT OF SKETCHING PROCESS, UM, IF, UH, IF YOU WERE ABLE TO BRING SOMETHING THAT WAS HIGHER LEVEL BEFORE YOU GO INTO THE DETAIL SKETCHING TO THE WORKING GROUP, PERHAPS, MAYBE THAT'D BE HELPFUL. I MEAN FOR, YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T WANNA SAY ANYTHING NEGATIVE ABOUT THESE SKETCHES 'CAUSE THEY'RE BEAUTIFUL. UM, BUT YOU KNOW, ONE THING THAT WE MIGHT WANT TO, YOU KNOW, UH, TO LOOK AT IS INSTEAD OF HAVING SCREENED PARKING FOR THE SECOND FLOOR, HAVING ACTIVE, UM, USES AND THAT SORT OF THING. SO IT'D BE A SHAME FOR YOU TO DRAW THIS BEAUTIFUL SCREENING AND THEN US GOING AND GO IN AND SAY, OH, WE GOTTA GET RID OF ALL THAT. UM, AND SO JUST LIKE HAVING SOMETHING CONCEPTUAL TO REFLECT OFF OF BEFORE YOU PUT IN THE HOURS OF SKETCHING SOMETHING THAT WOULD GO INTO THE DOCUMENT MIGHT BE HELPFUL. CERTAINLY. AND, AND IF I MADE SURE THAT THAT ADDS TIME, OBVIOUSLY, 'CAUSE THEN YOU NEED TO SET UP A WORKING GROUP MEETING, GET THE FEEDBACK, SKETCH AND RESCHKE AND COME BACK. AND SO JUST, WE, WE WOULD KINDLY ASK FOR GRACE BE EXTENDED TO STAFF AS WE COLLABORATE WITH THE WORKING GROUP AND GET TO A POINT WHERE IT'S COMFORTABLE. WE, WE WOULD LIKE TO ENCOURAGE YOU TO THINK ABOUT, UH, THE PERFECT NOT BEING THE ENEMY OF THE GOOD, GOOD ENOUGH FOR AN INITIAL DRAFT. NOW KEEP IN MIND IT'S AN INITIAL DRAFT, SO THERE'S STILL TIME TO MAKE CHANGES, BUT, BUT THE MORE WE KEEP GOING BACK AND FORTH IT, IT'S JUST GONNA TAKE ADDITIONAL TIME AND THAT'S OKAY. BUT IT, IT KIND OF FEELS LIKE THE COMMISSION'S READY TO GO ONTO THE NEXT STEP IN TERMS OF ALIGNING PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT FAIRLY SOON. I'M NOT PUTTING A DATE ON THAT. I'M NOT SAYING HOW MANY MONTHS, [00:30:01] BUT WE'RE CERTAINLY HAPPY TO WORK WITH THE WORKING GROUP AS WELL AS THE COMMISSION TO BRING YOU AS MUCH, UH, DETAIL AS POSSIBLE IN THOSE CONCEPTS AND CERTAINLY BE ABLE TO GET FEEDBACK ON HOW TO CREATE BETTER IMAGES AND SKETCHES FOR, FOR YOUR CONCEPTS. THANK YOU CHAIR. ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? ALRIGHT, WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON TO OUR NEXT ITEM. SO [3. Discussion of the draft Urban Design Guidelines. ] IT'S A DISCUSSION ITEM, UH, PART OF OUR BACKUP. THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR PRESENTATION. THANK YOU FOR ALL THE WORK YOU'VE DONE. UM, DISCUSSION OF THE DRAFT OF THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES. SO WE DECIDED TO INCLUDE THIS IN OUR BACKUP JUST SO THAT WE CAN JUST, THERE'S A LOT OF FOLKS THERE HAVEN'T SEEN IT, HAVEN'T, THEY'RE NOT PART OF THE WORKING GROUP. AND I WANTED TO JUST MAKE SURE WE ARE, WE GET A LEVEL OF ENGAGEMENT. THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT I'M EXPECTING ANYONE TO JUST GO THROUGH RIGHT NOW AND READ. THIS IS GONNA BE SOMETHING THAT WE JUST NEED TO START PROCESSING AS A, AS A COMMISSION. UM, AND WE'LL BRING THIS UP FOR DISCUSSION AND EVENTUALLY WE WILL DO AN ACTION SO THAT WE CAN GET ALL THIS, ALL THESE ITEMS THAT WE DISCUSSED INTO AN ACTIONABLE ITEM AND GIVE THAT BACK TO THE WORKING GROUP. UH, AND HOPEFULLY IT'LL COINCIDE WITH WHAT Y'ALL ARE WORKING ON. SO THEY'LL COME OUT AT THE SAME TIME. UM, SO I HAVE NO QUESTIONS YET ON THIS 'CAUSE I, I WANT TO DIG INTO IT, UM, A LITTLE MORE THAN I HAVE AND I HAVEN'T, I HAVE NOT DONE THAT YET. COMMISSIONER HOWARD. SO IS THE IDEA THAT WE HAVE THIS POSTED, UM, EACH MONTH AND WE, IT'S JUST KIND OF AN OPEN OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE TO BRING COMMENTS IN AND DISCUSSION? YEAH, AND I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN SHAPE. UM, AS IN WE COULD SAY, OKAY, THE NEXT MEETING WE'RE GONNA FOCUS ON THE FIRST 10 ITEMS, YOU KNOW, AND THEN SLOWLY KIND OF WORK THROUGH IT. UM, AND IF YOU, YOU KNOW, FOR ANYONE THAT HAS QUESTIONS ON THOSE ITEMS OR COMMENTS, BRING IT IN AND THEN WE'LL, WE'LL DISCUSS IT AND THEN WE'LL JUST MOVE ON INCREMENTALLY. UM, THAT'S THE THOUGHT OF JUST TRYING TO ORGANIZE SO WE DON'T GET, YOU KNOW, TOO FAR AHEAD AND START GOING ALL OVER THE PLACE WITH IT. UM, COMMISSIONER CARROLL, JUST JUST TO CLARIFY THIS, THESE DISCUSSIONS WOULD BE TO INCORPORATE ANY, UH, COMMENTS INTO THE SECOND DRAFT, CORRECT? NOT THE CURRENT, CORRECT. THAT IS CORRECT. OKAY. YEAH. COMMISSIONER CON, UH, MY QUESTION WAS SIMILAR THAT THIS WAS GOING INTO THE SECOND DRAFT AND THEN JUST, UM, A QUESTION ABOUT PROCESS. SO WE'RE ONLY GOING TO HAVE THE DISCUSSIONS DURING THE SESSION, OR LIKE, IS THERE A WAY TO, I GUESS TO THE EXTENT WE'RE READING THROUGH IT IN BETWEEN, UM, SESSIONS AND WE HAVE ANY LIKE THOUGHTS OR COMMENTS, LIKE IS ANYONE COLLATING FEEDBACK AT ALL OR IS IT JUST SORT OF ALL WHATEVER'S KIND OF DISCUSSED IN PERSON OR, I MEAN, IDEALLY IT WOULD BE IN PERSON SO THAT WE CAN JUST KEEP A STREAMLINE, TRYING TO MINIMIZE ANY KIND OF, YOU KNOW, QUESTIONS JUST ALL OVER THE PLACE. SO, BUT IT WOULD BE IDEALLY JUST GIVING OURSELVES ENOUGH OF A RUNWAY SO THAT WE CAN HAVE THOSE DISCUSSIONS HERE AND GET IT INTO ONE SPOT AND THEN MOVE IT INTO THE WORKING GROUP. UM, THAT'S, THAT'S IDEAL AND IT'S A LOT OF INFORMATION, SO THAT'S WHY WE WANTED TO PUT IT OUT NOW AND JUST KINDA SAY WE'RE GONNA SLOW ROLL IT UNTIL, UNTIL WE GET DONE WITH THE DRAFT. SO COMM JORGE? YES. IF I MAY CHAIR. THANK YOU. SURE. IF ANY COMMISSIONER WISHES TO SUBMIT COMMENTS BETWEEN COMMISSION MEETINGS, THEY WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH OUR ADMINISTRATIVE LIAISON AND THEN SHE CAN POST THAT AS PART OF BACKUP. OKAY. DO, DO, DO NOT EMAIL EACH OTHER. 'CAUSE THAT WOULD BE A WALKING QUORUM, BUT YOU CAN SEND IT TO STAFF AND WOULD BE GLADLY ADDED TO SAY THIS DOCUMENT WOULD BE JUST PART OF BACKUP. THEN THAT GIVES YOU AN OPPORTUNITY AT ANY PUBLIC MEETING OF THIS KIND WITH THE COMMISSION TO DISCUSS NOT ONLY ANY ELEMENTS OF THE DRAFT, BUT THE COMMENTS THEMSELVES. SO COMMISSIONER WILL GIVE YOU THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN TO YOUR FELLOW COMMISSIONERS WHERE YOU WERE COMING FROM, ET CETERA. AND SO THAT YOU'LL NEED TO ASSIGN SOMEONE OR LAUREL FOLKS TO TAKE NOTES ON AS TO, TO GIVE STAFF BACK ON THE SECOND DRAFT THOSE CHANGES THAT YOU WISH TO SEE. SO THAT COULD HAPPEN AT THE WORKING GROUP. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO HAPPEN IN FULL SESSION AND THEN BRING THAT BACK TO THE COMMISSION. WELL, AND THE GOAL IS TO GATHER ALL THESE COMMENTS AND DISCUSSIONS INTO AN ACTION ITEM AT THE, AFTER A FEW MONTHS, [00:35:01] YOU KNOW, BASED ON THE NOTES THAT ARE TAKEN, AND THEN HANDED THAT OVER TO THE WORKING GROUP TO INCORPORATE THAT WHILE Y'ALL ARE WORKING, HOPEFULLY FINALIZING THE FIRST DRAFT. CORRECT, SIR. COMMISSIONER CARROLL. YEAH, I THINK THAT WOULD BE, UH, OUR PREFERENCE AND, AND, AND I'M HAPPY TO BE THE POINT PERSON TO COLLECT THAT FEEDBACK THAT THEN THE WORKING GROUP INCORPORATES AND THEN CAN JUST HAND STAFF, UH, THE TEXT FOR DRAFT TWO. SO ALL STAFF HAS TO DO IS ANY REVISIONS TO THE GRAPHICS, IF THERE ARE ANY. UM, ALRIGHT. ANY OTHER, DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY ITEMS THAT THEY'D LIKE TO DISCUSS ON THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES AS THEY'VE BEEN PRESENTED IN THE BACKUP? OR SHALL WE, WE CAN, WE JUST REALLY WANTED TO PUT IT IN THERE SO WE CAN GET, SO WE CAN START LOOKING AT IT AS A COMMISSION. ALRIGHT, WELL, WE'RE GONNA [4. Discussion of analysis on the Design Commission's recommendations and the final approved Downtown Density Bonus Program projects from the past ten years. ] MOVE ON TO OUR NEXT ITEM, DISCUSSION OF ANALYSIS OF THE DESIGN COMMISSION'S RECOMMENDATIONS AND THE FINAL APPROVED DOWNTOWN DENSITY BONUS PROGRAM PROJECTS FROM THE LAST 10 YEARS. I KNOW WE HAVE A COUPLE PROJECTS THAT WE PICK EVERY MEETING. SO THIS FIRST ONE IS THE DENSITY BONUS FOR THE HANOVER PUBLIC SQUARE DEVELOPMENT. THIS WAS AT 3 0 5 WEST FIFTH. I'M NOT SURE IF EVERYONE'S HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT IT, IF ANYONE HAS ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS. AGAIN, WE'RE LOOKING TO SEE HOW WE CAN BETTER INFORM, UH, THE URBAN DESIGN STANDARDS, THE UPDATES, UH, BASED ON PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE, UH, ON, ON THESE BUILDINGS. ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? I'M NOT SURE. UM, BUT COMMISSIONER CARROLL, UM, YEAH, I, I HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO GO OUT THERE, BUT I KNOW THIS PROJECT JUST FINISHED CONSTRUCTION, SO I THINK IT'S, I MEAN, THE FIRST THING IS TO, TO GO CHECK AND SEE IF THEY BUILT IT OFF OF WHAT WAS APPROVED. YEAH, I HAVE NOT BEEN TO THE SITE. IT IS ON GOOGLE. I MEAN, IT'S REALLY TWOFOLD, RIGHT? IT'S LIKE FIRST SEEING IF IT COMPLIED WITH WHAT WAS APPROVED AND THEN ANY DISCUSSION ON, YEAH, I MEAN, IT IS HARD TO TELL IF IT'S RECENTLY COMPLETED AND WE HAVEN'T BEEN OUT THERE TO SEE FROM, TO SEE WHAT WAS EMPHASIZED AND IF THERE'S A BETTER WAY TO EMPHASIZE A GUIDELINE SO THAT IT CAN BE, OH WAIT, THIS IS, MAYBE I'M MISTAKEN. IS THIS, WHICH SIDE OF THE SQUARE IS IT ON HERE IMPLEMENTED BY STAFF OR RECOGNIZED BY STAFF AS SOMETHING THAT WE, OR AS A COMMISSION FELT STRONGLY? UH, NO, THIS ONE ACTUALLY HAS BEEN COMPLETED FOR A BIT. I WAS THINKING OF THE ONE ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE PARK JUST COMPLETED, BUT THE COMMENT STILL REMAINS CHAIR. UH, I HAVE A HAND, I'M SORRY. YEAH, VICE CHAIR. SORRY. LOOKING AT THE BACKUP. YEAH. UM, SO I AM SOMEWHAT FAMILIAR WITH THE WAY THAT THIS WAS EXECUTED. UM, I, I'M LOOKING AT THE BACKUP TO COMPARE WHAT WAS PROPOSED VERSUS WHAT'S IN PLACE NOW. AND I DO THINK FOR THE MOST PART, IT HOLDS TRUE. UM, THAT BEING SAID, I WILL SAY, I MEAN, ONE OF THE CONSIDERATIONS THAT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW THAT THE GUIDELINES ACCOUNT FOR IS, YOU KNOW, WHETHER OR NOT SOMETHING IS IN A NIGHTLIFE DISTRICT. UM, AND SO, YOU KNOW, IN SOME CASES WE'VE HAD BUILDINGS LIKE THIS THAT HAVE DISPLACED, YOU KNOW, CLUBS, BARS, WHATEVER ELSE, MUSIC VENUES, UM, AND, YOU KNOW, REPLACED IT WITH LOBBIES OR, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T QUITE FIT WITH THE NIGHTLIFE DESIGNATION. UM, I THINK IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, [00:40:01] IT DOES HAVE TWO VENUES, UM, ONE THAT IS, UH, KIND OF AT THE FOREFRONT, WHICH IS A RESTAURANT, AND THEN IN THE BACK IT HAS, UM, A PRETTY WILDLY, UH, POPULAR, UM, BAR CALLED THE POWDER ROOM. UM, SO I WOULD SAY IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, CONTRIBUTING TO TO NIGHTLIFE, I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT. UM, AGAIN, I, I KNOW THAT WE'RE IN THE MIDST OF OR FINALIZING THE DESIGN GUIDELINES AND THERE WERE QUITE A FEW TWEAKS THAT WERE MADE. UM, I THINK THAT, UM, IT'S JUST REALLY IMPORTANT TO, UM, CONTINUE TO PRESERVE OUR CULTURE. AND, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE'RE BUILDING THESE BUILDINGS, UH, FOR PEOPLE THAT WE'RE ATTRACTED TO ALL OF THE AMENITIES THAT AUSTIN HAS TO OFFER, WHEN WE DISPLACE THOSE AMENITIES, THEN IT DOESN'T REALLY HAVE, YOU KNOW, THE SAME APPEAL. UM, SO I THINK THAT, UM, IN THIS CASE, THEY KIND OF DID THE BARE MINIMUM, WHICH IS, WHICH IS FINE. UH, WHEN IT COMES TO, YOU KNOW, VIBRANCY AND, UM, CONTRIBUTION TO THE WAREHOUSE DISTRICT. UM, YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT THE ZAZA, WHICH IS RIGHT NEXT TO THAT BUILDING, IT'S A BRICK BUILDING. I THINK MOST OF US ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE HOTEL ZA. UM, IT DEFINITELY, UH, TIES IN MORE TO KIND OF, YOU KNOW, LIKE WHAT WOULD BE LIKE A WAREHOUSE DISTRICT. UM, WHEREAS THIS BUILDING, YOU KNOW, KIND OF STANDS OUT, UH, IN CONTRAST, UM, LOOKING AT THE, YOU KNOW, PODIUM, IT'S PRETTY UTILITARIAN. UM, I SEE A MAJOR MISSED OPPORTUNITY FOR ART. UM, SO ALL IN ALL, YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO HOLD THESE BUILDINGS TO THE STANDARD OF THE, THE GUIDELINES AS THEY'RE CURRENTLY WRITTEN. UM, BUT I, I, I THINK WE JUST NEED TO CONTINUE TO PUSH BEYOND COMPLIANCE AND REALLY, UH, ENSURE THAT WE'RE, UH, YOU KNOW, ASKING FOR A HIGH GRADE OF EXECUTION. UM, AND, YOU KNOW, SO MANY OF THESE COMMENTS JUST STAND OUT BECAUSE I KNOW THAT WE'VE JUST EXPERIENCED ALL THIS RAPID GROWTH AND I CAN'T HELP BUT SEE THE SOCIAL MEDIA COMMENTS ANECDOTALLY WHERE PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT HOW AUSTIN HAS LOST ITS CULTURE. YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SOME REALLY FAMOUS PODCASTERS WHO LIVE HERE NOW WHO ARE PUTTING OUT THE MESSAGING, YOU KNOW, TO, TO THE WORLD THAT AUSTIN HAS NO SOUL. WE DON'T HAVE ANY CULTURE, YOU KNOW, AND I, I THINK THAT WE ARE BEARERS OF THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR, UM, ENSURING THAT, THAT WE PRESERVE AND PROLONG THAT. UM, SO, UM, THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO BE LONG-WINDED ON IT. UH, SO I WOULD SAY THERE'S SOME WINS, BUT DEFINITELY OPPORTUNITIES, UH, THAT WE COULD PARLAY INTO FUTURE PROJECTS WITHOUT A YIELD. UH, COMMISSIONER MCKINNEY, I THINK TO, UM, TAG ONTO THAT A LITTLE BIT, I, I AGREE WITH VICE CHAIR MINERS THAT THE, BASED ON THE MATERIALS THAT THEY SUBMITTED TO THE COMMISSION LOOKS TO BE BUILT PRETTY MUCH FOR THE PLAN. I THINK THEY PUT IN LESS PARALLEL PARKING THAN THEY HAD IN THE PLAN, BUT THAT WAS ABOUT THE ONLY DEVIATION THAT I COULD FIND. I THINK THE ONE THING THAT WAS MISSING IS THEIR PRESENTATION DID ALLUDE TO ART, AND WITHOUT WALKING AND, YOU KNOW, LOOKING INTO THE LOBBY, YOU CAN'T EXPERIENCE ANY OF THAT. SO THEY DO HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A BLANK FACADE ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE BUILDING THAT I THINK WE COULD HAVE PUSHED FOR SOME MORE LIKE PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE ART. UM, AND SO I THINK AS WE LOOK AT THE, THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES, THAT MAY BE A LITTLE BIT OF A TWEAK THAT WE HAVE. AND IN THAT, LIKE, FOR THE SAME WAY THAT THIS LOBBY IS NOT PUBLICLY, YOU KNOW, FULLY PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE, THE ART WITHIN IT IS ALSO NOT ACCESSIBLE. SO, UM, MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE FURTHER LOOK INTO AS WE RE REFINE THE, THE GUIDELINES. BUT OTHER THAN THAT, I THINK IT LOOKS EXACTLY AS PRESENTED. COMMISSIONER CARROLL, THANK YOU CHAIR. UH, I JUST WANTED TO COMMENT A LITTLE BIT ON VICE CHAIR MINOR'S COMMENT. UM, THE, WELL, THE DRAFT DOES SPEAK TO A MIX OF USES, AND I BELIEVE WE EVEN HAD LANGUAGE IN THERE SUGGESTING DEVELOPERS LOOK AT THE WIDER AREA OF, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS YOU DON'T NEED A BAR. IF THERE'S 10 BARS ALREADY ON THAT STREET, PERHAPS YOU NEED SOMETHING ELSE. THAT SAID, THAT'S REALLY MORE OF A SUGGESTION BECAUSE WE'RE, I THINK WE HAVE TO REMIND OURSELVES OUR HANDS ARE TIED A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE THESE ARE DESIGN GUIDELINES AND WE CAN ONLY DO SO MUCH [00:45:02] WITH DESIGN GUIDELINES AND, AND DICTATING USE IS, IS NOT ONE OF THEM. WE COULD SAY WE WANT A MIX OF USES, BUT OBVIOUSLY WE CAN'T SAY YOU MUST DO RESIDENTIAL OR YOU MUST DO, UH, A LIVE MUSIC VENUE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SO, UM, I THINK, SO WE, WE'VE TRIED TO, WE, WE HAD A LOT OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS IN THE WORKING GROUP AND, AND TRY TO PROVIDE SOME LANGUAGE IN THERE, BUT, UH, TO SOME DEGREE, AGAIN, WE, WE CAN ONLY ASK FOR SO MUCH IN DESIGN GUIDELINES. COMM, COMMISSIONER, RE CHAIR, I MAY ADD TO THAT, I THINK THIS PROJECT ACTUALLY A STRIKINGLY GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHAT, UH, COMMISSIONER CARROLL IS, IS TALKING ABOUT IS THAT YOU, WE, WE HAVE LIMITED POWER WITH THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES AND MOREOVER, WE ARE IN COMPETITION WITH SO MANY OTHER FORCES OVER THE GROUND FLOOR USES IN THIS CITY THAT WE ARE, UH, JUST ABSOLUTELY TRIPPING OVER OURSELVES, PREVENTING OUR, PREVENTING ANYONE FROM PREVENTING THE BEST PATH FORWARD FOR ANYONE FOR BUILDING QUALITY URBAN DESIGN. WE'VE GOTTA FIT IN THE, YOU KNOW, THIS PROJECT NOBLY TUCKS, IT'S, YOU KNOW, AUSTIN ENERGY TRANSFORM OF ALL THE ELECTRICAL PUMP ROOM GENERATOR ALL BACK OF HOUSE. BUT IN DOING SO, THEY HAVE ROBBED THE PROJECT, THE ABILITY TO PUT ITS DRIVEWAY ACCESS THROUGH THE ALLEY, LIKE THIS GROUP, THIS GROUP IS EXCITED TO SEE MORE OF. SO THERE'S SIMPLY NOT THAT MANY, YOU KNOW, YOU RUN OUTTA SQUARE FEET ON THE GROUND FLOOR, UH, WITH ALL THESE, SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, AS A, AS A, YOU KNOW, PLEA OR CALL TO ARMS, I MEAN, WE'RE, WE'RE FIGHTING WITH OTHER, SO, SO MANY OTHER CITY FORCES THAT ARE GETTING IN THE WAY OF WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE. UM, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE BIG, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE MIX OF ACTIVE USES THING REALLY STEMS FROM HAVING A LIVELY STREET SCAPE AS YOU'RE WALKING DOWN AND YOU DON'T PASS ONE MONOLITHIC, YOU KNOW, BUILDING OR LOBBY OR WHAT HAVE YOU. YOU DON'T, YOU WERE TRYING TO DISSUADE PROJECTS FOR BEING AN ENTIRE CITY BLOCK, BUT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO BUILD THESE THINGS IF, UH, IF THEY'RE NOT A, IN, YOU KNOW, A QUARTER OF A BLOCK, FULL CITY BLOCK BECAUSE WE'RE HAVING TO FIT IN SO MANY THINGS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T, WE DON'T HAVE A CODE THAT, UH, INCENTIVIZES GOING UNDERGROUND WITH PARKING, UM, THAT WE'RE PUTTING ALL THESE, ALL THESE VAULTS AND OTHER ACTIVITIES ON. SO I THINK WHAT THIS COMMISSION REALLY WANTS TO SEE IS MORE SMALL FOOTPRINT PROJECTS THAT FACE THE STREET AND GIVE THE PEDESTRIANS WITH A LIVELY SERIES OF ACTIVITIES AND MAKE WALKS FEEL SHORTER BECAUSE THERE'S INTEREST AS YOU'RE GOING ALONG. UM, BUT IT'S JUST, I'M A LITTLE DESPONDENT THAT THERE'S SO MANY OBSTACLES IN OUR WAY THAT ARE THE, THE CITY'S ON MAKING HERE IN RAN COMMISSIONER MARCUS. I DO WANNA ADD THE, UM, IT LOOKS BEAUTIFUL AND THE, AND THE PLASTERING ON THE GARAGE OF THE FIRST WHATEVER, SIX OR 10 FLOORS. I'M WONDERING WHETHER AS WE CONSIDERING, UM, WHAT WE PUT IN THE, IN THE UPCOMING, IN A DRAFT OF THE GUIDELINES, IS IT POSSIBLE FOR US TO CONSIDER ADDING MORE GREENERY OR SUGGESTING ADVOCATING, PROPOSING ADDING MORE GREENERY WHENEVER WE HAVE A GARAGE, UM, ABOVE GROUND FOR A VARIETY OF BENEFITS THAT WE HAVE DISCUSSED MANY TIMES HERE? ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT LIKE A TRADE OFF OR, UH, INCORPORATED INTO THOSE ENTRANCES IN A WAY? I'M JUST FOR A LITTLE BIT MORE CLARITY. UM, ACTUALLY INCORPORATED ABOVE THE ENTRANCES OH, GOTCHA. WHERE WE HAVE THE GARAGE AND NOW IT, IT IS CURRENTLY PLASTERED, IT'S CLAD AND PLASTER. I'M WONDERING WHETHER ON TOP OF THE PLASTER WE CAN HAVE THE PLANTERS OR THE PLANTERS WILL REPLACE THE PLASTER ITSELF. GOTCHA. IT REDUCES THE TEMPERATURE OF THE BUILDING, INCREASES THE, A NUMBER OF BENEFITS, RIGHT. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT MANY TIMES. UH, VICE GER MINERS. YEAH. UM, I JUST WANNA ADD ON REALLY QUICK 'CAUSE YOU TRIGGERED MY MEMORY. UM, SO I CAN TELL YOU JUST FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCES OF WALKING ON THE EAST FACADE ON THE SIDEWALK, UM, THE GLASS IS, UH, NOT TRANSPARENT, SO IT REALLY DOESN'T OFFER A LOT OF STREET INTERACTION ON THAT EAST SIDE IN PARTICULAR. UM, I THINK THE NORTH, UH, FACADE IS, IS A LITTLE BIT MORE INVITING, UM, WHEN IT COMES TO, UH, GREENERY. ODDLY ENOUGH, THEY HAVE FAKE PLANTS. UM, SO ALL THE PLANTS THAT ARE OUTSIDE IN FRONT ARE, ARE SYNTHETIC. UM, SO TAKE THAT FOR WHAT YOU WILL. UM, AND I THINK TOO, JUST TO, NOT TO BELABOR MY POINT, BUT JUST TO REINFORCE THE POINT, UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK A LOT OF THESE DEVELOPERS ARE OFTEN, YOU KNOW, COMING TO US, UM, WITH REPRESENTATION THAT [00:50:01] IS IN AUSTIN. UM, BUT THEY'RE NOT ALWAYS CONNECTED TO AUSTIN. UM, AND SO EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T HAVE THE, UH, WE DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO PRESCRIBE THE USES THAT THEY HAVE ON THAT FIRST FLOOR, I THINK WE SHOULD ABSOLUTELY REMIND THEM OF WHERE THEY ARE AND GIVE THEM THE CONTEXT OF WHERE THEY'RE GOING. I MEAN, THERE ARE DEFINITELY GUIDELINES THAT TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, UM, RECOGNIZING, UH, THE AREA AROUND, UH, THE BUILDING. UM, SO WE MAY NOT HAVE THE, THE LEVERS AND, UM, THE VEHICLE, UM, TO, YOU KNOW, PREVENT THEM FROM DOING IT. I ABSOLUTELY SEE THIS AS, UM, A PULPIT, UH, TO ADVOCATE FOR THOSE THINGS, UM, FOR THE CITY, AGAIN, BECAUSE COMPLIANCE IS ONE THING, BUT DEGREEING GRADE OF EXECUTION IS ANOTHER. AND I THINK THAT WE SHOULD, WE SHOULDN'T LIMIT OURSELVES, UM, TO JUST COMPLIANCE WHEN WE HAVE THIS PLATFORM. COMMISSIONER HOWARD, UM, I THINK, I THINK THIS PROJECT WAS PROBABLY BEFORE MY TIME, SO I DON'T RECALL THE CONVERSATION AROUND IT. UM, BUT I, I'M CURIOUS IF, UH, YOU KNOW, THAT THERE'S A NUMBER OF GUIDELINES THEY, THEY INDICATED THAT THEY WERE COMPLIANT WITH, THAT I'M KIND OF IN, I'M QUESTIONING AROUND HUMAN SCALE, UM, AND, YOU KNOW, PROTECTING THE PEDESTRIAN WHERE THE BUILDING MEETS THE STREET, UM, ACTIVATING THE STREETS KEEP, I'M GETTING THE TERMINOLOGY WRONG, UM, BUT YOU KNOW, THERE'S, UM, THERE'S REALLY TWO USES. UM, IF YOU DON'T COUNT PARKING AND LOADING. UM, AND WE HAVE REALLY JUST TWO ENTRANCES, UM, AS IT RELATES TO THE STREET. YOU KNOW, THERE'S, UH, AND, AND YOU KNOW, LIKE WE WERE HEARING, NOT A LOT, THE TRANSPARENCY'S NOT EVEN REALLY TRANSPARENT. AND SO THE LEVEL OF ENGAGEMENT OF THIS BUILDING WITH THE STREET IS PRETTY LOW, I WOULD SAY AT THE GROUND FLOOR. PERHAPS IT DOES PROVIDE GROUND FLOOR AMENITIES, UM, THAT ARE VALUABLE. UM, AND YEAH, OBVIOUSLY THEY'VE GOT A LOT GOING ON, ON THE GROUND FLOOR, UM, TO, IT'S A CHALLENGING PUZZLE. UM, BUT I WOULD ALSO SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, OBVIOUSLY WE'RE, WE'RE HOPING TO DO BETTER WITH OUR GUIDELINES AROUND ABOVE GROUND GARAGES IN THE FUTURE. UM, BUT I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE GRANULARITY AND THE, THE HORIZONTAL SCALE OF A BUILDING MATTERS, IT'S A QUARTER BLOCK, BUT, UM, IT'S REALLY, YOU KNOW, THE, THE PARKING PODIUM IS QUITE MONOLITHIC AND IT, IT ACCENTUATES ITS, UM, HORIZONTAL SCALE WITH ITS HORIZONTAL BANDED WINDOWS, UM, THAT DON'T REALLY READ AS ANYTHING, BUT MAYBE LIKE A 1980S OFFICE BUILDING AT BEST, UM, UH, WHICH, YOU KNOW, WEREN'T DESIGNED FOR HUMAN SCALE EITHER. UH, AND SO I, YOU KNOW, I WONDER IF THERE WAS ANY CONVERSATION AROUND THOSE, THOSE ELEMENTS AND, AND WHETHER THERE WAS ANY ROOM IN THE CONVERSATION TO PUSH BACK ON SOME OF THOSE PIECES. OBVIOUSLY, ART AND GREENERY ARE ALSO REALLY AWESOME TOOLS, UH, TO BREAK UP THAT MONOTONY. UM, BUT I'M JUST CURIOUS ABOUT THAT CONVERSATION THAT WAS HAD AT, AT THE DESIGN COMMISSION AROUND THOSE ITEMS. I DON'T RECALL THIS ONE EITHER. COMMISSIONER CARROLL IS PROBABLY THE ONLY ONE HERE. I MEAN, THIS IS LIKE SIX OR SEVEN YEARS AGO. YOU, I HAVE NO IDEA. I MEAN, I WILL SAY THE, UM, THE WINDOWS ALONG LAVACCA ARE A FUNCTION OF THE USE AS, UH, VICE CHAIR MINORS ALLUDED TO. IT'S A, LIKE A SPEAKEASY. AND SO THEY'VE, THEY'VE ACTUALLY BLACKED OUT THE WINDOWS THAT ARE THERE TO MAKE IT DARK AND TO SPEAKEASY. UH, SO I I I WOULD ASSUME IF, IF IN THE FUTURE IT BECOMES A DIFFERENT USE, THERE WOULD BE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE THOSE MORE TRANSPARENT AGAIN. UM, BUT I I, I VAGUELY REMEMBER A CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT BLOCK FACE, UM, ABOUT MORE HAVING MORE ACTIVITY, BUT THE CHALLENGES WERE THE, THE GRADING, UH, WAS SO STEEP ALONG THAT SIDE. UM, SO THERE'S NO ENTRANCES TO THE BUILDING ALONG THAT SIDE. UM, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S TO THE EXTENT THAT MY OLD MAN MEMORY CAN, CAN RECALL COMMISSIONER MCKINNEY, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT AS WE LIKE GO BACK AND REVIEW THESE THINGS THAT, I MEAN, THE COMMISSION VOTED TO RECOMMEND THIS AT THE TIME, AND I THINK WE NEED TO HONOR THAT. I DON'T THINK WE, I DON'T THINK IT'S USEFUL TO DISPUTE WHETHER OR NOT WE AGREE WITH THE RECOMMENDATION OR NOT BECAUSE IT WAS THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE BODY THAT WE SERVE. AND SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT [00:55:01] IF THERE ARE THINGS THAT WE'RE NOTING ON HERE THAT MAYBE WE DON'T FEEL THAT ALIGN, I THINK THAT THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES ARE BEING UPDATED IS BECAUSE THE AMOUNT OF SUBJECTIVITY THAT SURROUNDS THEM AND MAKING SURE THAT WE MAKE IT EASIER FOR APPLICANTS TO COME IN AND HAVE, HAVE AND RECEIVE CLEAR, CONCISE FEEDBACK FROM THIS BODY. UM, SO I THINK IF WE HAVE ITEMS AS WE REVIEW THESE, THESE PROJECTS THAT HAVE BEEN INSTALLED, THAT WE DON'T NECESSARILY AGREE WITH THAT. IT'S JUST, I THINK WE JUST NEED TO NOTE THEM AND PROVIDE THAT FEEDBACK TO THE WORKING GROUPS SO THAT AS THE UP THE GUIDELINES ARE UPDATED, WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT THOSE ITEMS ARE BEING INCORPORATED. AGREED. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS ABOUT THIS ITEM CHAIR? ONLY THAT I, I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER MCKINNEY THERE. I THINK IT'S PART OF MY FRUSTRATION STEMS FROM IF, IF WE SAW THIS CASE TODAY, I PROBABLY WOULD SAY THIS DOES SUBSTANTIALLY COMPLY. UH, BUT I THINK WE, YOU KNOW, ARE, I WANNA ECHO THAT WE ARE TRYING TO UPDATE THOSE GUIDELINES FOR THE REASON, UM, FOR THE REASONS, UH, COMMISSIONER MCKINNEY DEMONSTRATED IT TO BE, YOU KNOW, MORE AT THE, AT THE, AT THE FOREFRONT OF, OF BEST PRACTICES IN URBAN DESIGN. SO, UM, RECOGNIZES THIS, THIS DOVETAILS WITH THE CONVERSATION WE JUST HAD, UM, AND EXCITED TO CONTINUE THAT WORK. 'CAUSE I'M, I'M HOPING THAT PUTS THIS COMMISSION ON BETTER FOOTING TO HAVE SUBSTANTIVE CONVERSATIONS WITH APPLICANTS MOVING FORWARD. AGREED. ALRIGHT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? WE'LL MOVE ON TO OUR NEXT ITEM. UM, [5. Discussion and action to select Downtown Density Bonus Program projects from the past ten years to conduct analysis on outcomes. Sponsors: Chair Salinas and Vice Chair Meiners. ] OUR NEXT ITEM IS TO, ARE THERE ANY ADDITIONAL PROJECTS THAT YOU'D LIKE TO, UM, THAT WE'D LIKE TO BRING SIMILAR TO THIS FROM THE PAST 10 YEARS? UH, FROM THE LIST THAT WAS PROVIDED AS BACKUP? PARDON ME? CHAIR SALINAS? YES. UM, AT JUNE'S MEETING, Y'ALL HAD SELECTED A PROJECT, UM, 3 0 7 EAST SECOND STREET, I BELIEVE. YEAH, I THOUGHT THERE WERE TWO. I JUST WANTED TO NOTE THAT THAT WAS WITHDRAWN. SO THAT'S WHY IT'S NOT INCLUDED. IT WASN'T INCLUDED FOR BACKUP. OH, IT WAS SELECTED ALONG WITH THE HANOVER PROJECT. YEAH. IS IS THERE A REASON? UM, I DON'T KNOW. IT SAID THAT, UM, THERE WAS NO RECOMMENDATION GIVEN AND THAT I THINK JUST THE WHOLE PROJECT WAS WITHDRAWN. THERE WAS NO RECOMMENDATION FROM THE ORIGINAL COMMISSION MEETING? CORRECT. GOTCHA. I THOUGHT THE, I WOULD SAYS THE MOTION OF THE RECOMMENDATION FAILED AND NO RECOMMENDATION WAS MADE, AND THE STATUS OF THE PROJECT IS WITHDRAWN. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. I MEAN, THAT KIND OF SHOWS THE IMPORTANCE OF US GETTING TO A PLACE WHERE WE CAN MAKE A RECOMMENDATION WHETHER, UH, IT'S OR BAD SO THAT WE COULD HAVE RECORD OF IT. OH, IT WAS NEVER BILL. GOTCHA. UM, ALRIGHT. ARE THERE ANY ADDITIONAL PROJECTS THAT WE WANNA LOOK AT IN OUR NEXT MEETING? OH, COMMISSIONER MCKINNEY. I JUST HAD A QUICK QUESTION. I, I DO BELIEVE I MISSED A MEETING AND I THINK AT ONE POINT COMMISSIONER CARROLL REQUESTED 4 0 5 COLORADO IN ANOTHER. WERE THOSE REVIEWED AND I JUST DIDN'T ATTEND? I, YEAH, I BELIEVE SO. YEP. AND THEN, UM, I THINK ONE OF THE OTHER ONES ON THE LIST THAT WAS NOTED AS RECOMMENDATION OF NON-COMPLIANCE WITH A LIST OF MEANS TO COMPLY, WHICH ARE, I THINK THE ONES THAT WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT, UM, WAS 5 0 1 WEST FIFTH STREET. DID YOU GUYS REVIEW THAT ONE? LET ME LOOK AT THIS DOCUMENT IS ON THE FIRST SHEET. IT'S AN OLDIE, IT CAME IN IN 2014. I'M LOOKING AT OUR PAST ME OR PAST MEETINGS, THE BACKUP OF OUR PAST MEETINGS. I DON'T SEE IT ON HERE. I SEE FOUR OR FIVE. ALRIGHT. WOULD YOU LIKE TO ADD THAT ONE? YES, PLEASE. ALL RIGHT. I'LL, UM, SECOND [01:00:01] THAT. SURE. IS THAT THE FEDERAL COURTHOUSE? I DON'T KNOW, IS IT? NO. YEAH. OKAY. OH, WE DID LOOK AT FIFTH AND WEST. SO WE LOOKED AT FIFTH AND WEST ON OUR MAY 19TH MEETING. I THINK THAT'S THE ONE YOU'RE REFERRING TO. OKAY. YEAH, I'M JUST GOING OFF THE ADDRESS. UM, AND IT WAS CALLED FIFTH AND WEST. UM, SO I THINK ONE OF THE OTHER ONES THAT WAS RECOMMENDED THAT, THAT IT WAS NOTED, DID NOT COMPLY, UM, WAS 3 2 1 WEST SIXTH STREET, 3, 2, 1, WHICH IS ONE OF MY PROJECTS. SO I'M HAPPY TO PROVIDE SOME COLOR COMMENTARY. I DON'T BELIEVE WE'VE SEEN THAT ONE YET. SO, ALL RIGHT, WELL, I'LL SECOND THAT. UM, ALL FOUR OR ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? UM, CAN, CAN I JUST MAKE A COMMENT? SURE. YEAH. I, I JUST WANNA, UH, REINFORCE THAT I DO THINK THAT THE INTENT IS FOR MOVING FORWARD. I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY HINDSIGHT IS 2020, SO I HOPE, I KNOW A LOT OF YOU ARE INVOLVED IN HAVE VESTED INTEREST. I AM ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT DOES NOT. UM, SO, UH, I JUST WANT TO ENSURE THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE NOT, UH, TAKING IT PERSONALLY AND IT'S JUST, UH, WITH THE MEANS OF MOVING FORWARD AND MAKING SURE THAT THE, THE GUIDELINES, UH, ARE AS GOOD AS THEY CAN POSSIBLY BE. SO THANKS. YEAH, I THINK, I MEAN, THE GOAL TOTALLY IS TO, UM, IS MOVING FORWARD. SO HOW WE CAN BETTER INFORM THE UPDATES, UH, BASED ON THE EXPERIENCE AND, UH, AND THE RESULTS FROM PREVIOUS PROJECTS. YEP. SO WHAT WAS, I'M SORRY, WHAT WAS THE PROJECT AGAIN? 3 2 1 WEST SIXTH STREET. 3 2 1 WEST SIXTH STREET. ALL RIGHT. I'LL, DO WE HAVE TO VOTE ON THIS? I CAN'T RECALL. OKAY. AND CAN WE VOTE ON TWO AT THE SAME TIME? JUST, YEAH, THAT'S FINE. ALL RIGHT. WE'LL DO THAT. IS THERE ANY ADDITIONAL PROJECTS ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO SEE? I, WE ARE GOING TO MOVE FORWARD WITH 3 2, 1 WEST SIXTH STREET. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. ALL RIGHT. WE'LL LOOK AT THAT AT OUR NEXT MEETING. OUR NEXT [6. Discussion and action to select a member for the Urban Design Guidelines Working Group. Sponsors: Chair Salinas and Commissioner Wittstruck. ] ITEM IS, WELL, WE IS A DISCUSSION AND ACTION ITEM TO, UH, SELECT A MEMBER FOR THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES WORKING GROUP. UM, BELIEVE THE PERSON THAT WE WERE NOMINATED IS NOT HERE, SO, UH, COMMISSIONER GALLES EXPRESSED INTEREST IN JOINING THE WORKING GROUP, AND I GUESS COMMISSIONER LADNER WAS, IT IS NO LONGER PART OF IT. UM, CAN'T RECALL. UM, BUT YEAH, I GUESS, UH, WE'LL HOLD OFF ON THAT UNLESS ANYONE ELSE IS INTERESTED. CAN WE FORCE HER INTO IT? DOES SHE HAVE TO BE HERE STILL? INVITE HER? WE CAN STILL INVITE HER, YEAH. OH, I GOT YOU. YEAH. UM, SO WE, WE DON'T HAVE TO DO IT HERE. YEAH, TRINA, SHE DOESN'T NEED TO BE HERE. I WILL, I'LL MAKE THE MOTION THAT SHE'S, SHE JOINED THE WORKING GROUP. OKAY, PERFECT. I'LL SECOND THAT. SO SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO BE HERE, YOU'RE SAYING, UM, SINCE SHE CONSENTED TO IT AT THE LAST MEETING, I THINK IT'S FINE IF WE, IF Y'ALL WOULD LIKE [01:05:01] TO MAKE A MOTION FOR THAT. OKAY. WELL, I'M OKAY WITH THAT. UH, ALL IN FAVOR FOR APPOINTMENT OF, UH, COMMISSIONER GALLES TO THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES WORKING GROUP. ALL RIGHT. UNANIMOUS. CONGRATULATIONS, COMMISSIONER GALLES. ALL RIGHT. [7. Select a representative for the South Central Waterfront Advisory Board per City Code ยง2-1-172. ] WE ARE SO STILL LOOKING FOR A SOUTH CENTRAL WATERFRONT ADVISORY BOARD COMMISSIONER AS A, THIS IS A JOINT BOARD. UM, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, THERE'S NO MEETINGS AT THE MOMENT. THEY HAVE NOT DISSOLVED THIS WORKING GROUP OR THIS GROUP, THIS COMMISSION, BUT WE STILL HAVE TO BRING IT UP IN OUR MEETINGS. UM, ANYBODY WANTS TO BE PART OF A COMMISSION THAT IS NOT MEETING? PLEASE RAISE YOUR HAND. WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM. IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE ANYBODY'S INTERESTED. IT'D BE AN EASY ONE TO JOIN. UM, I WOULD BE HAPPY TO. YOU CAN PUT ME DOWN FOR IT. THE NEXT MEETING IS SCHEDULED FOR SEPTEMBER 15TH. ALL RIGHT. IF IT HAPPENS, IT HAPPENS. NOT, I WON'T HAVE A REPORT. ALRIGHT. WHAT'S THAT? YEAH. YEAH, THEY HAVEN'T MET ALL YEAR, BUT, SO I'D LIKE TO NOMINATE COMMISSIONER MCKINNEY IF I CAN GET A SECOND. ALRIGHT. ALL IN FAVOR FOR COMMISSIONER MCKINNEY TO JOIN THE SOUTH CENTRAL WATERFRONT ADVISORY BOARD. UNANIMOUS, CONGRATULATIONS. I ALL RIGHT. AN [8. Update from the representative of the Downtown Commission regarding the meeting on July 16, 2025, and August 20, 2025. ] UPDATE FROM THE DOWNTOWN COMMISSION. I BELIEVE THAT'S COMMISSIONER GALLES, UH, FROM THE MEETING ON JULY 16TH AND AUGUST 20TH. UM, SO WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO MOVE ON FROM THAT ONE. SHE'S NOT HERE TO GIVE THAT UPDATE. AND OUR FINAL ITEM IS [9. Update from the representative of the Joint Sustainability Committee regarding the meeting on June 25, 2025. ] AN UPDATE FROM THE, UH, FROM THE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE JOINT SUSTAINABILITY COMMITTEE REGARDING THE MEETING JUNE 25TH. I APOLOGIZE. I DID GO TO THAT MEETING, UM, BUT I DIDN'T READ THE BACKUP, SO IT'S BEEN A FEW MONTHS, SO I CAN'T GIVE AN UPDATE, BUT I'LL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO DO IT AT OUR NEXT MEETING. UM, IS THERE ANY [FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS ] FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS ANYBODY WOULD LIKE TO BRING UP IN OUR NEXT MEETING? ALL RIGHT, WELL, THERE'S NO MORE QUESTIONS OR ANY OBJECTIONS. OH, COMMISSIONER MCKINNEY, UM, I KNOW THAT THE, UM, GREAT STREETS HAD THEIR INITIAL OPEN HOUSE. UM, IS IT WORTH IT TO PROVI TO HAVE, UM, SOMEONE PROVIDE AN UPDATE ON THE UPDATE TO THE GREAT STREETS MASTER PLAN? AND I, I DON'T KNOW IF ANYTHING CAME OUT OF THE OPEN HOUSE, BUT I THINK BECAUSE THE URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES ARE BEING DEVELOPED, UM, SORT OF, SORT OF IN TANDEM WITH THE UPDATE TO THE GREAT STREETS MASTER PLAN, THAT IT MAY BE WORTH IT FOR US TO CONTINUE TO GET UPDATES ON THAT SO THAT EVERYONE'S ON THE SAME PAGE. COMMISSIONER HERE, JORGE? NO, NOT COMMISSIONER CHAIR. I KNOW, THANK YOU. UH, WE, WE'LL BE HAPPY TO BRING THAT WE'RE NOT AT THE POINT WHERE WE'RE STARTING TO ENGAGE WITH BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS YET, BUT AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME WE WILL BE PROVIDING UPDATES TO THERE, THERE ARE SEVERAL BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS THAT ARE ALREADY WANTING AN UPDATE AND WE CAN CERTAINLY DO THAT. WE'RE JUST NOT AT THAT POINT YET. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ABOUT ANY FUTURE ITEMS? UM, ALRIGHT, WITHOUT OBJECTION. I'M GONNA ADJOURN. COMMISSIONER HOWARD. ALRIGHT, SO SORRY. UM, RELATED TO THE GREAT STREETS UPDATE, UM, I'M, I'M CURIOUS IF THERE ARE ANY OPPORTUNITIES THAT YOU SEE TO, YOU KNOW, I I THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF CONVERSATION ABOUT KINDA THE LIMITS OF GUIDE OF GUIDELINES AND, UM, THE GREAT STREETS UPDATE HAS, UH, MORE OF THE FORCE OF LAW BEHIND IT. UM, AND I'M WONDERING IF THERE'S, IF THERE'S OPPORTUNITIES WITHIN THAT TO SORT OF UPDATE A, YOU KNOW, IN, UM, COORDINATION WITH URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES THAT WE'RE ANTICIPATING IN THE FUTURE AND WHAT THAT MIGHT LOOK LIKE. SHERIFF, [01:10:01] I MAY YES, PLEASE. TO ATTEMPT TO TRY TO ANSWER THE QUESTION. I THINK THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR A NEXUS, BUT THERE'S NOTHING DEVELOPED YET WITH THE UPDATE TO THE GRAY STREET STANDARDS. SO THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A STANDARD THAT COULD EVENTUALLY BE HOUSED IN CODE VERSUS A DESIGN GUIDELINE. NOW THERE COULD BE SIMILARITIES AND OVERLAP IN TERMS OF SOME OF THE CONCEPTS AND SOME OF THE GUIDING PRINCIPLES, AND THOSE COULD BE DISCUSSED. UM, BUT WHAT WILL BE EVENTUALLY BROUGHT TO THE VARIOUS BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS ARE DESIGNED STANDARDS FOR GRAY STREETS FOR THE UPDATE TO THE PLAN AND THE TECHNICAL STANDARDS. AND SO I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT IT'S CLEARLY ARTICULATED THAT WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT CREATING DESIGN GUIDELINES IN THE UPDATE TO THE GRAY STREETS PROGRAM, BUT THERE WILL BE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS BOTH IN THE CONTEXT OF URBAN DESIGN GUIDELINES YOU WISH TO DEVELOP COMMISSIONER MCKINNEY. I WOULD ASSUME THAT IN THAT CASE THAT ANY UPDATES TO THAT WILL BE MOVING THROUGH THE TECHNICAL ADVISORY REVIEW PANEL AS WELL. YES, HE'S NODDING HIS HEAD. THAT IS CORRECT. AND THAT WOULD BE THE STARTING POINT. THERE'S A TECHNICAL ADVISORY GROUP FOR THE UPDATE TO THE GRAY STREET PLAN AND STANDARDS THAT WILL THEN MAKE ITS WAY THROUGH PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT AND EVENTUALLY THE BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS. ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. WITHOUT ANY OBJECTION, ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? UH, I'M GONNA ADJOURN TONIGHT'S MEETING, 7:17 PM THANK YOU. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.