* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:03] OKAY, WELL, THE QUORUM IS PRESENT, [CALL TO ORDER] SO LET ME GO AHEAD AND CALL TO ORDER. UM, THIS IS THE, UH, WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 7TH MEETING OF THE, UH, HISTORIC LANDMARK COMMISSION. AND, UH, WE'LL GO AHEAD AND HAVE A STAFF CALLED ROLE. ALL RIGHT, UM, CHAIR AFF PRESENT. UH, VICE CHAIR EVANS PRESENT. COMMISSIONER ACTON PRESENT. COMMISSIONER ALVAREZ PRESENT. COMMISSIONER GROGAN PRESENT. COMMISSIONER COOK PRESENT. COMMISSIONER LAROCHE PRESENT. COMMISSIONER MWATER PRESENT. COMMISSIONER PLEASANT WRIGHT PRESENT. . UM, I KNOW COMMISSIONER RICE HAS TOLD ME THAT HE WILL BE 10 TO 15 MINUTES LATE, BUT HE IS NOT HERE NOW. UM, COMMISSIONER TANANA. GUCCI PRESENT. ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE CON CONCLUDED ROLL CALL. TERRIFIC. AND EVEN, UH, A FEW MINUTES LATE. THIS WILL BE A GREAT WAY TO START OFF THE NEW YEAR. EVERYBODY HERE IN PERSON. SO THANK YOU ALL. UH, LOOK FORWARD TO MORE OF THE SAME. UH, WE'LL GO [PUBLIC COMMUNICATION: GENERAL] FORWARD NOW WITH THE, UH, PUBLIC COMMUNICATION. UH, WE'LL HEAR FROM GENERAL SPEAKERS WHO ARE SIGNED UP TO COMMENT ON ITEMS THAT ARE NOT ON THE AGENDA. DO WE HAVE ANY SPEAKERS? YES, WE HAVE. UH, MEGAN KING. MS. KING. THANK YOU. GOOD EVENING. MEGAN KING NOMAR POLICY AND OUTREACH PLANNER FOR PRESERVATION AUSTIN HERE WITH MY MONTHLY UPDATE FOR YOU GUYS. LAST MONTH WE ANNOUNCED THE RELAUNCH OF OUR GRANTS PROGRAM, WHICH WAS BRIEFLY ON HIATUS FOR 2025. NOW ENTERING ITS 10TH YEAR. OUR GRANTS PROGRAM HAS AWARDED NEARLY $2,400 TO, I'M SORRY, $240,000, NOT $2,400. CAN'T READ, UM, 60 PRESERVATION PROJECTS ACROSS AUSTIN. CITY LIMITS APPLICATIONS FOR MATCH GRANTS OF UP TO $10,000 ARE DUE ON JANUARY 15TH, AND WE ACCEPT ROLLING GRANTS FOR UP TO $1,500 A YEAR ROUND. SOME OF THE PROJECTS THAT OUR GRANTS PROGRAM HAS FUNDED OVER THE YEAR, OVER THE YEARS INCLUDE BRICK AND MORTAR GRANTS FOR LEGACY BUSINESSES LIKE CISCO'S AND DEEP EDDIE CABARET THAT SUPPORTED THE CONTINUED OPERATIONS OF THESE VITAL LEGACY BUSINESSES. WE FUNDED EDUCATION GRANTS FOR A DOCUMENTARY ON THE HISTORY OF THE TOWA PEOPLE IN AUSTIN, AND A PHOTO EXHIBITION ON THE PEOPLE IN BUSINESSES DISPLACED BY THE I 35 EXPANSION. WE'VE ALSO SUPPORTED THE DESIGNATION OF ROGERS, WASHINGTON HOLY CROSS HISTORIC DISTRICT IN EAST AUSTIN AND THE MARY BAYLOR HOUSE IN CLARKSVILLE. WITH OUR PLANNING SURVEY AND HISTORIC DESIGNATION GRANTS. AS A SMALL NONPROFIT, WE ARE PROUD TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THIS INVESTMENT IN THE PEOPLE AND ORGANIZATIONS STEWARDING OUR CITY'S HISTORY. WE INVITE ANYONE LISTENING THAT IS WORKING ON A PRESERVATION PROJECT, WHICH I KNOW MANY IN THIS ROOM ARE, UH, TO LEARN MORE AND APPLY BY JANUARY FIFTEENTH@PRESERVATIONAUSTIN.ORG. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER SPEAKERS? WE DID HAVE MEGAN KING FOR A SECOND TIME, BUT SHE'S GOOD. SO , WE HAVE NO OTHER SPEAKERS FOR PUBLIC COMMUNICATION. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU SO MUCH. UH, WE'LL NOW ASK STAFF TO GO AND [ Consent Agenda] DO A REVIEW OF OUR AGENDA. THANK YOU CHAIR. UH, TONIGHT'S MEETING BEGINS WITH OUR DECEMBER 3RD, 20, 25 MINUTES, WHICH ARE OFFERED FOR CONSENT APPROVAL. WE DO HAVE ONE HISTORIC ZONING APPLICATION TONIGHT. ITEM TWO C 14 H 20 25 0 107 AT 1308 SPRINGDALE ROAD. THIS IS BETHANY CEMETERY. AND AS WITH ALL HISTORIC ZONING, THIS WILL BE OFFERED FOR DISCUSSION THIS EVENING. UNDER CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS, WE HAVE HR 20 25 1 5 8 116 AT 1114 WEST 10TH STREET. THIS IS OFFERED FOR CONSENT. ITEM FOUR, HR 20 25 1 5 8 1 6 9 AT 37 10 CEDAR STREET WILL BE A DISCUSSION ITEM. ITEM FIVE, PR 20 25 1 4 4 1 4 2 AT 24 0 6 EAST MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR. BOULEVARD WILL BE A DISCUSSION CASE. UH, THIS ITEM CAME TO US LAST MONTH. THIS IS A DEMOLITION PERMIT IN A LOCALLY DESIGNATED HISTORIC DISTRICT, WHICH MEANS THAT, UH, FOR THIS CASE THE COMMISSION HAS APPROVED DENY AUTHORITY. UM, WE DO HAVE A NEIGHBORHOOD POSTPONEMENT REQUEST FOR THIS CASE AS WELL. ITEM SIX, SB 20 25 1 5 807 7 AT 38 0 5 RED RIVER STREET IS OFFERED FOR CONSENT. IT'S OUR LAST CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS THIS EVENING. UNDER NATIONAL REGISTER HISTORIC DISTRICT APPLICATIONS, WE HAVE ITEM SEVEN, PR 20 25 1 0 3 9 0 3 AT 1513 MURRAY LANE. UH, THIS IS, UH, GOING TO BE A CONSENT POSTPONEMENT AT THE APPLICANT'S REQUEST TO OUR NEXT MEETING. ITEM EIGHT, HR 20 25 1 5 7 6 5 3 [00:05:03] AT EIGHT 11 EAST RIVERSIDE DRIVE IS OFFERED FOR CONSENT. ITEM NINE, HR 20 25, 1 5 4 9 6 AT 2310 WINDSOR ROAD IS OFFERED FOR CONSENT. ITEM 10, PR 20 25 1 5 5 21 AT 15 FIVE WEST 13TH STREET IS OFFERED FOR CONSENT. ITEM 11, PR 20 25 1 4 7 3 7 1 AT 5 2 2 SUNNY LANE IS OFFERED FOR CONSENT. ITEM 12, HR 20 25 1 5 7 9 7 7 AT 1105 MAL STREET IS OFFERED FOR CONSENT. ITEM 13, PR 20 25 1 5 7 7 2 9 AT 4 2 2 CONGRESS AVENUE IS OFFERED FOR CONSENT. ITEM 14, PR 22 5 1 5 7 7 3 8, UH, 1 0 1 TO 1 0 5 WEST FIFTH STREET IS OFFERED FOR CONSENT UNDER DEMOLITION AND RELOCATION APPLICATIONS. TONIGHT WE START WITH ITEM 15 DA 20 25, 1 42 9 6 5 AT 2 1 1 7 WEST 49TH STREET. UH, THIS WILL BE A DISCUSSION ITEM AND THERE'S ALSO A NEIGHBORHOOD REQUEST FOR POSTPONEMENT. UH, THIS IS THE NEIGHBORHOOD'S SECOND REQUEST AFTER LAST MONTH'S POSTPONEMENT, UM, AND TO WHICH THE APPLICANT IS OPPOSED. ITEM 16 DA 20 25, 1 4 1 1 3 2 AT 9 0 6 WEST 22ND STREET WILL ALSO BE A DISCUSSION ITEM. UM, THERE IS A NEIGHBORHOOD REQUEST FOR POSTPONEMENT. IT IS THE NEIGHBORHOOD SECOND REQUEST AFTER LAST MONTH'S POSTPONEMENT TO WHICH THE APPLICANT IS OPPOSED. ITEM 17, PR 20 25 1 3 8 0 6 5 AT 9 0 7 EAST 13TH STREET WILL BE A DISCUSSION ITEM. FINALLY, ITEM 18, PR 20 25 1 4 9 2 9 8 AT 1205 EAST 13TH STREET IS OFFERED FOR CONSENT. UM, I'D ALSO JUST LIKE TO OFFER A REMINDER TO THE CROWD TONIGHT. UM, WHEN YOU'RE SPEAKING, PLEASE DON'T APPROACH THE PODIUM UNTIL YOUR NAME IS CALLED. THANK YOU. OKAY, THANK YOU. UM, AT THIS POINT WHAT WE WILL GO DO IS, UM, HAVE A APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM OUR LAST MEETING. IS THERE ANY ADDITION OR OBJECTION FROM COMMISSIONERS? IF NOT, THAT WILL BE THE FIRST OF OUR ITEMS ON OUR CONSENT AGENDA. AND THEN WHAT I WILL DO IS I WILL REVIEW THE CONSENT AGENDA, UH, AFTER WE HEAR FROM ANY SPEAKERS. NOW, LET ME POINT OUT THAT ALL ITEMS THAT ARE ON THE CONSENT AGENDA WILL, UM, IF THE, IF THEY'RE APPROVED ON THE CONSENT AGENDA, WILL BE APPROVED, UH, WITH STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION. UH, I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO NOTE THAT WE ARE REQUIRED AS PART OF OUR PROCESS TO CALL THE NAMES OF ANYONE WHO IS SIGNED UP ON THESE CONSENT ITEMS. HOWEVER, IF IT PASSES ON THE CONSENT, WE DON'T NEED YOU TO SPEAK. YOU'RE NOT REQUIRED TO SPEAK. HOWEVER, IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK, YOU HAVE THAT RIGHT. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO WAIVE YOUR RIGHT TO SPEAK, WHEN WE CALL YOUR NAME, PLEASE INDICATE BY WAIVING YOUR HAND AND THEN WE WILL PROCEED TO THE NEXT SPEAKER. SO, UH, WE'RE, WE'RE STILL GETTING USED TO THIS, BUT I THINK IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. AND AGAIN, WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO, UH, LISTEN TO YOUR TESTIMONY IF IT IS ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL. BUT BE AWARE THAT IF IT'S ON THE CONSENT AGENDA AND WE VOTE IN APPROVING IT, YOUR ITEM WILL BE APPROVED. UH, SO WE DON'T NECESSARILY NEED TO HAVE ANY MORE CONVERSATION IN ORDER TO HAVE THAT ACTION TAKE PLACE. NOW, UH, WE'LL PROCEED WITH THE, UH, SPEAKERS AND THEN AT ANY TIME, ANY OF MY COMMISSIONERS HERE HAVE THE ABILITY TO PULL ITEMS FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA. SO COMMISSIONERS, IF ANYTHING IS, UH, SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD RATHER HAVE A DISCUSSION ITEM, UH, TURN INTO A DISCUSSION ITEM TONIGHT, PLEASE DON'T HESITATE AT ANY TIME TO GET MY ATTENTION. OKAY. SO WITH THAT, UH, DO WE HAVE THE FIRST SPEAKER ON THE FIRST UH, CONSENT ITEM OR SHOULD I REVIEW THE CONSENT ITEMS JUST IN ORDER FIRST AND THEN WE KNOW WHICH ONES WE'RE TALKING ABOUT? OKAY. FOR, FOR THE RECORD, LET ME JUST NOTE, NOTE THE WE ONES WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. SO THE FIRST CONSENT, AS WE SAID WAS THE, UH, ITEM NUMBER ONE, WHICH IS OUR MINUTES. UH, THAT'S NOT A PUBLIC HEARING ISSUE. UH, THE NEXT ONE IS ITEM NUMBER THREE. UH, THAT IS, UH, 1114 WEST 10TH STREET. THE NEXT CONSENT ITEM POSTED IS ITEM NUMBER SIX. THAT IS, UH, 35, UH, 38 0 5 RED RIVER STREET. UH, IN FACT ON THAT ONE I'M GOING TO SAY IF ANYBODY HAS A CHANCE TO SEE THE PRESENTATION, IT'S PRETTY COOL. PRESERVATION AUSTIN SIGN IS GONNA BE, UH, A NICE ADDITION TO THAT COMPLEX. UH, THE NEXT CONSENT ITEM THAT WE HAVE IS, UH, POSTPONEMENT REQUEST FROM THE APPLICANT. THAT'S ITEM NUMBER SEVEN. THAT'S 1513 MURRAY LANE. UH, THE CONSENT ITEM NUMBER EIGHT IS, UH, 11, UH, EIGHT 11 EAST RIVERSIDE DRIVE NUMBER, UH, ITEM [00:10:01] NUMBER NINE IS 2310 WINDSOR. UH, ITEM NUMBER 10 IS 1505 WEST 13TH STREET, 11 5 22 SUNNY LANE, 12 11 0 5, UH, MAL 13 4 22 CONGRESS AVENUE, 14, UH, 1 0 1 AND ONE THROUGH 1 0 5 WEST FIFTH STREET. UH, THE LAST CONSENT ITEM IS OUR FINAL ITEM ON THE AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 18 12 0 5 EAST 13TH STREET. SO LET'S GO AHEAD AND CALL THE SPEAKERS ON ANY OF THOSE ITEMS. YES. WE HAVE TWO SPEAKERS IN FAVOR FOR ITEM NUMBER THREE, AND OUR FIRST SPEAKER IS JENNIFER SHELL, WHO HAS WAIVED HER RIGHT TO SPEAK. THANK YOU. UH, OUR SECOND SPEAKER IS LINDSAY MACKEY, WHO IS ALSO WAIVED HER RIGHT TO SPEAK ITEM NUMBER SIX. YES. OUR NEXT CONSENT ITEM DOES NOT HAVE ANY SPEAKERS. LET'S SEE. NEITHER DOES ITEM NUMBER SEVEN. UM, ITEM NUMBER EIGHT HAS A FEW, TWO SPEAKERS. UH, ONE IS A VIRTUAL SPEAKER AND THAT IS IVAN MARIN WHO APPEARS TO NOT BE ONLINE. UH, OUR SECOND SPEAKER IS ALVARO ROLANDO HYMES, WHO, I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY ARE. OH, RIGHT THERE. OH, THERE. HI. AND, AND SIR, YOU DO HAVE A RIGHT TO SPEAK AND PLEASE, UH, INTRODUCE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD. YEAH, MY NAME HYMES. UM, SO REGARDING EIGHT 11 EAST RIVERSIDE, UM, WE WANNA SEE ABOUT CHANGING THE EXTERIORS CURRENTLY HAS A, UH, WOOD SIDING AND WE'D LIKE TO KIND OF CHANGE THAT TO STUCCO. UH, WE'VE DONE RESEARCH OF THE AREA AND OF COURSE STUCCO WAS COMMON IN 1918. UM, AND IN THE YEARS OF THAT CONSTRUCTION OF THAT, THAT AREA OF THAT AREA. UM, SO THAT'S ONE OF THE CHANGE WE WE'D LIKE TO SEE FOR THAT RESIDENCE. UH, THE WINDOWS OBVIOUSLY WANTED TO UPGRADE THOSE TO SOMETHING THAT'S MORE EFFICIENT. UM, IF WE HAVE TO RESTORE THE EXISTING WINDOWS AND SO BE IT, WE WILL, WE'LL FIGURE OUT HOW TO INCORPORATE THAT. BUT WE WOULD PREFER TO GET SOMETHING MORE MODERN AND EFFICIENT, UH, FOR THAT BUILDING. WE'RE NOT REALLY CHANGING LOCATIONS EXCEPT FOR SOME IN THE BACK, BUT WHAT IS THE STREET FACING SIZE? THE WINDOWS SIZES AND LOCATIONS ARE STAYING, UH, THE SAME. OKAY. AND THIS IS, UH, RECOMMENDED FOR CONSENT WITH STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION. AND IF YOU'VE HAD A CHANCE TO SEE THOSE, UH, IF THIS ITEM CONTINUES TO STAY ON THE CONSENT AND HAS PASSED, THEN YOU WILL BE ABLE TO PROCEED FOLLOWING THOSE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS. YES, SIR. OKAY. OKAY. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. NEXT SPEAKER. WE DO NOT HAVE ANY OTHER SPEAKERS FOR THIS ITEM. OUR NEXT ITEM NUMBER NINE HAS NO SPEAKERS AS WELL. UM, NEITHER DOES ITEM NUMBER 10, UH, ITEM NUMBER 11 HAS ONE SPEAKER WHO IS IN FAVOR THE APPLICANT WHO HAS WAIVED HER RIGHT TO SPEAK. OKAY. HMM. OH, NOT HER NAME IS RIKA KEEPERS, BUT AGAIN, WE SAW, WE SAW HER NAME HER HER HAND. THANK YOU. YEAH, SORRY, . OUR NEXT ITEM DOES NOT HAVE A SPEAKER EITHER. AND THAT IS ITEM NUMBER 12. ITEM NUMBER 13 HAS ONE SPEAKER IN FAVOR. AND THAT IS MICHAEL WHEELAN, UH, WHO HAS WAIVED THEIR RIGHT TO SPEAK. WE ALSO HAVE A SPEAKER IN OPPOSITION AND THAT IS DAVID JKA. HELLO, MY NAME IS DAVID JKA AND UH, I'M THE OWNER OF SHINER SALOON AT 4 2 2 CONGRESS AVENUE. AND ADJACENT BUILDING IS THE, UH, 1 0 1 WEST FIFTH STREET. UM, I'M JUST HERE TO HONESTLY PLEA THAT SOMEONE WOULD STEP IN AND NOT ALLOW THIS BUILDING TO BE DESTROYED. UH, IT'S PART OF AUSTIN. IT'S BEEN HERE SINCE THE FORTIES. WE'VE ACTUALLY BEEN IN THE BUILDING NOW FOR ALMOST 18 YEARS. I MEAN, IT'S OUR HOME. IT'S MORE [00:15:01] THAN, YOU KNOW, BRICK AND MORTAR TO US. I MEAN, WE'VE BROUGHT IN 400 YEAR OLD LONGLEAF PINE AND 10 FROM DAIRIES, AND EVEN THE STAIRWELL FROM THE ACTUAL SHINER BREWERY IN SHINER, TEXAS. THOSE THINGS ARE BRICK AND MORTAR, BUT FOR US, I MEAN, IT'S A FAMILY. I MET MY WIFE THERE, UM, PEOPLE HAVE GOT ENGAGED THERE, MARRIED THERE. I MEAN, LET'S BE HONEST, IT IS A BARN RESTAURANT. THERE'S PROBABLY EVEN BEEN A BABY OR TWO MADE THERE . UH, BUT AFTER 17 YEARS IN FIGHTING THROUGH COVID, VID AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT CAN BE THROWN AT US, UH, WE'D LIKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO JUST STAY THERE AND CONTINUE TO, YOU KNOW, BE A BUSINESS IN AUSTIN. WE KEEP OUR KITCHEN OPEN LATE. WE SERVE FOOD ALL THE WAY TILL TWO IN THE MORNING. UM, WE'RE PART OF THE KIND OF LIVE MUSIC CIRCUIT. WE HAVE BANDS AND WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP AUSTIN. HONESTLY, WHAT BROUGHT US TO AUSTIN IN THE FIRST PLACE. I MEAN, THAT'S THE VIBE OF AUSTIN. WE WERE THE LIVE MUSIC CAPITAL OF THE WORLD AND NOW WE GET PHONE CALLS EVERY DAY 'CAUSE PEOPLE CAN'T EVEN FIND A VENUE TO GO LISTEN TO SOME GOOD MUSIC. I THINK WE ARE BOTH A GREAT PLACE FOR OUR REGULARS AND HONESTLY, TOURISTS, PEOPLE THAT COME TO AUSTIN FOR AUSTIN SHOW UP AT OUR PLACE ALL THE TIME. THE CONCIERGE, THE HOTEL PEOPLE ALWAYS TELL 'EM, YOU NEED TO GO CHECK OUT SHINERS. AND EVERYBODY THAT DOES STOPS US ON THE WAY OUT AND SAYS, MAN, I LOVE THIS PLACE. AND THEY'VE EVEN SAID, YOU KNOW, FROM THE OUTSIDE, I WAS KIND OF SCARED TO WALK IN THE DOOR JUST BECAUSE IT'S KIND OF BOARDED UP. BUT THEN THEY'RE LIKE, MAN, WHEN I GOT INSIDE THIS PLACE IS SO COOL. WE WOULD LOVE TO JUST KEEP THAT VIBE AND THAT PART OF AUSTIN ALIVE FOR AS LONG AS WE CAN . SO IF THERE'S A POSSIBILITY OF DELAYING, WE'D LIKE TO DELAY. OKAY, THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UM, THIS IS NOT THE DISCUSSION ASSOCIATED WITH THE FULL CASE. THIS IS A CONSENT ITEM AND YOU'VE JUST GIVEN US YOUR INPUT COMMISSIONERS. IF YOU WOULD WISH, UH, ANYBODY, ANY ONE OF US IF YOU WOULD WISH, WOULD BE ABLE TO PULL THIS FOR DISCUSSION OR WE MAY CON PROCEED WITH THE REST OF THE CONSENT AGENDA. OKAY. UH, AGAIN, OUR PURVIEW IS THE HISTORIC NATURE OF THE STRUCTURE. UM, AND SO, UH, AT THIS POINT IT'LL CONTINUE ON THE CONSENT AGENDA, UH, WITHOUT, BUT WE APPRECIATE YOUR, YOUR SENTIMENTS FOR THE RECORD. NO PROBLEM. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, ITEM NUMBER 14, I KNOW THAT'S RELATED. DO NOT, UH, WE DO NOT HAVE ANY SPEAKERS FOR THAT SPECIFIC ITEM. OKAY. UH, AND THE FINAL CONSENT ITEM? YES, WE HAVE, UH, TWO SPEAKERS AS PART OF THE APPLICANT TEAM, AND THAT IS LATH, MAHMUD AND MUD ANARI. AND THEY'RE BOTH VIRTUAL SPEAKERS, ANARI AND I BELIEVE A RIGHT TO SPEAK. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. THEY HAVE WAIVED THE RIGHT TO SPEAK, BUT WE DO HAVE ONE SPEAKER IN OPPOSITION AND THAT IS SCOTT MENZIES WHO HAS ALSO WAIVED THE RIGHT TO SPEAK. OKAY. OKAY. IS THAT ALL THE ITEMS ON ALL THE SPEAKERS? UH, YES, THAT IS ALL THE SPEAKERS. OKAY. WE'LL NOW HAVE A VOTE ON THE CONSENT AGENDA. AND THESE ARE ALL THE ITEMS THAT WERE OFFERED FOR CONSENT APPROVAL, INCLUDING THE CONSENT POSTPONEMENT. CHAIR. CHAIR. I'D LIKE TO PULL ITEM NUMBER THREE. ITEM NUMBER THREE. HOLD ON. ITEM NUMBER THREE, THE 1114 WEST 10TH STREET IS NOW A DISCUSSION ITEM. ALRIGHT, WAS THERE ANOTHER CHAIR I'D LIKE TO MOVE TO APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA AS AMENDED? OKAY. COMMISSIONER LAROCHE. IS THERE A SECOND? UH, COMMISSIONER RICE. UH, AND YOU'RE HERE ON THE, ON THE DIOCESE. WELCOME. YES, I'M . DO I NEED TO DO ANYTHING? NO, WE, WE, WE ACKNOWLEDGE YOU'RE HERE OFFICIALLY. GOOD . ALRIGHT. UH, AGAIN, FOR THE RECORD, ANY, UH, OF THESE ITEMS ON THE CONSENT AGENDA WHEN PASSED WILL UH, BE APPROVED WITH THE REQUIREMENTS OR RECOMMENDATIONS OF STAFF? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF APPROVING THE CONSENT AGENDA, PLEASE INDICATE BY RAISING YOUR HAND. ANY OPPOSED? I SEE ALL HANDS ARE RAISED AND THAT HAS BEEN APPROVED. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH. SO THEREFORE, IF YOU ARE HERE FOR ONE OF THOSE ITEMS, YOU CAN STAY AND LISTEN TO THE REST OF THIS MEETING IF YOU WISH. BUT, UH, YOU MAY ALSO, [00:20:01] UH, PROCEED HOME. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, THE NEXT ITEM IS WE HAVE TWO POSTPONEMENT REQUESTS THAT, UH, I BELIEVE ARE NOT FAVORED BY THE APPLICANT. IS THAT CORRECT? NO CHAIR. WE HAVE, UH, ALL OF THE, THOSE REQUESTS ARE IN DISCUSSION ITEMS ANYWAY, NONE OF THE POSTPONEMENT REQUESTS WERE ON THE CONSENT AGENDA. OKAY. ALRIGHT. SO, BUT NO, UH, WE HAD, WE HAD ONE THAT WAS A CONSENT POSTPONEMENT. CORRECT. BUT THAT WAS AN APPLICANT REQUEST APPLICANT AND THAT WILL BE TO THE NEXT, UH, TO OUR NEXT MEETING. YES, THAT'S CORRECT. RIGHT. BUT THE ITEM NUMBER 15 THAT HAD A REQUEST FOR A POSTPONEMENT AND ITEM 16, DO THOSE REQUIRE A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE POSTPONEMENT OR WE GO STRAIGHT TO THE CASE BECAUSE WE WILL HEAR THE CASE. UM, WE DON'T NEED TO DO THE DISCUSSION POSTPONEMENT AT THE TOP OF THE AGENDA. UNDERSTOOD. ALRIGHT THEN LET US, UH, AT THIS POINT [2. C14H-2025-0117 – 1300-1308 Springdale Rd. Bethany Cemetery ] PROCEED WITH OUR FIRST ITEM. THANK YOU CHAIR. ITEM TWO C 14 H 20 25 0 107. UM, IS A HISTORIC LANDMARK COMMISSION INITIATED AND OWNER SUPPORTED REQUEST FOR HISTORIC LANDMARK ZONING AT THE BETHANY CEMETERY ON 1308 SPRINGDALE ROAD. THE ZONING CHANGE REQUESTED IS P DASH NP TO P DASH H DASH NP AND STAFF RECOMMENDS GRANTING THAT PROPOSED ZONING CHANGE ON THE BASIS OF COMMUNITY VALUE, LANDSCAPE FEATURES AND HISTORICAL ASSOCIATIONS. A LITTLE BIT OF BACKSTORY ON THIS CASE. UH, IT WAS ACTUALLY INITIATED BACK IN 1977 BY THE HISTORIC LANDMARK COMMISSION AT THE REQUEST OF ACTIVIST AND ORGANIZER EVELYN TAYLOR ROSS, BUT IT DID NOT PROCEED TO RECOMMENDATION TO PC AND COUNSEL AFTER A SERIES OF POSTPONEMENTS. IT WAS INITIATED AGAIN IN 2024, BUT IT TIMED OUT UNFORTUNATELY DUE TO MISSING CASE MATERIALS, UM, AFTER THE DEATH OF OUR COMMISSIONER RUBIO, WHO I KNOW SOME OF Y'ALL REMEMBER. UM, SO NOW IT'S BACK. THANK YOU VERY MUCH TO OUR RE INITIATORS, UM, COMMISSIONERS COOK AND VICE CHAIR EVANS AS A PHYSICAL REPRESENTATION OF AFRICAN AMERICAN HERITAGE AS WELL AS A SPACE BOTH PHYSICALLY AND CULTURALLY LINKED WITH SOME OF AUSTIN'S MOST PROMINENT RESIDENTS. BETHANY CEMETERY IS ELIGIBLE FOR DESIGNATION IS A CITY OF AUSTIN. HISTORIC LANDMARK HISTORIC HISTORIAN EMILY PAYNE DESCRIBES THE CEMETERY'S IMPORTANCE IN HER 2025 NARRATIVE. IT'S THE OLDEST KNOWN EXAMPLE OF A BLACK CEMETERY IN AUSTIN AND INCLUDES INDIVIDUALS WHOSE STORIES OF ENSLAVEMENT AND EMANCIPATION ARE CRITICAL TO PRESERVE. THE STORIES EMBODIED AT BETHANY CEMETERY ARE UNIQUE BECAUSE THEY ILLUSTRATE BLACK COMMUNAL EFFORT AND PERSEVERANCE IN THE ABSENCE OF PUBLIC SUPPORT. PAYNE ALSO NOTES THAT THE NATIONAL TRUST FOR HISTORIC PRESERVATION ACKNOWLEDGES THAT CEMETERIES OFTEN SERVE AS THE ONLY DOCUMENTATION OF MANY SIGNIFICANT BLACK STORIES. BETHANY CEMETERIES CONTINUED EXISTENCE IS A TESTAMENT TO THE STRENGTH OF THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY IN AUSTIN. IN THE FACE OF PUBLIC DISINVESTMENT CHANGING DEMOGRAPHICS AND DISPLACEMENT FOR DECADES, COMMUNITY LEADERS HAVE MOBILIZED SUPPORT FOR PRESERVING BETHANY IN SPITE OF CON CONTINUED FUNDING ISSUES AND GENERAL APATHY FOR MUNICIPAL BODIES FIGHTING TO ENSURE THE CONTINUED SURVIVAL OF A SACRED GATHERING SPACE THAT HAS SERVED BLACK AUSTIN FOR 132 YEARS. ITS PHYSICAL LANDSCAPE IS CULTURALLY SIGNIFICANT. ITS ARRANGEMENT IS CONSISTENT WITH AFRICAN-AMERICAN BURIAL TRADITIONS OF THE 19TH AND 20TH CENTURIES AND BEYOND. IT ALSO CONTAINS A UNIQUE COLLECTION OF EARLY CONCRETE HEADSTONES, SOME OF WHICH PREDATE THE FOUNDING OF EVERGREEN CEMETERY. AND AS SUCH REPRESENT RARE EARLY EXAMPLES IN AUSTIN. THUS, STAFF IS PROUD TO SUPPORT THIS APPLICATION. UH, BETHANY CEMETERY RECEIVED A TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION SUBJECT MARKER, UH, IN 1997 AFTER YEARS OF COMMUNITY DRIVEN WORK. AND IN 2003, THE BETHANY CEMETERY ASSOCIATION AND COMMUNITY PARTNERSHIPS WORK TO ACHIEVE BETHANY'S DESIGNATION AS A HISTORIC TEXAS CEMETERY, UH, BY THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION. THAT CONCLUDES THE STAFF PRESENTATION. THANK YOU. THANK YOU COMMISSIONERS. ANY QUESTIONS OF STAFF? OKAY. CAN WE HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT? WELL, I KNOW WE INITIATED, BUT CAN WE HEAR FROM THE REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE CEMETERY? IT'S, IT'S OKAY. THANK YOU. WELCOME. AND PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD. GOOD EVENING. I'M SUE SPEARS MARTIN AND I'M THE PRESIDENT OF THE BETHANY CEMETERY ASSOCIATION. UM, I COULD STAND HERE ALL NIGHT AND RECITE THE LONG LIST OF HISTORICAL FACTS DATE, UH, ABOUT BETHANY CEMETERY AND ITS SIGNIFICANCE, BUT, UM, MUCH OF THAT INFORMATION IS ALREADY WELL KNOWN AND DOCUMENTED IN YOUR BACKUP THAT YOU HAVE BEFORE YOU. INSTEAD, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SPEAK TO WHY BETHANY [00:25:01] MATTERS. BETHANY CEMETERY HOLDS A DISTINCTION OF BEING THE FIRST CEMETERY ESTABLISHED FOR BLACK RESIDENTS IN AUSTIN. IN MANY WAYS, I CONSIDER BETHANY TO BE AN ANNEXATION TO OUR AUSTIN'S FIRST MUNICIPAL CEMETERY OAKWOOD BECAUSE HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR THE DEEP ROOTED PREJUDICE POLICIES THAT ENFORCED RACIAL SEPARATION, EVEN IN DEATH, THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO NEED TO ESTABLISH BETHANY AT ALL. BETHANY EXISTS BECAUSE AFRICAN AMERICANS WERE EXCLUDED FROM BURIALS AND MUNICIPAL CEMETERIES. IT'S FOUNDING TELLS A POWERFUL AND UNCOMFORTABLE TRUTH ABOUT AUSTIN'S HISTORY. ONE THAT THERE DESERVES TO BE ACKNOWLEDGED, PRESERVED, AND PROTECTED. BETHANY CEMETERY, IT HAS ALREADY HAS A DESIGNATION AS A TEXAS HISTORICAL CEMETERY, AND THIS RECOGNITION AFFIRMS ITS IMPORTANCE AT THE STATE LEVEL. HISTORIC ZONING BY THE CITY OF AUSTIN WOULD FURTHER AN ACKNOWLEDGE THE CEMETERY'S LOCAL SIGNIFICANCE AND ITS IRREPLACEABLE ROLE IN TELLING THE STORY OF AUSTIN AND ITS AFRICAN AMERICAN COM COMMUNITY. BETHANY IS NOT JUST THE BURIAL GROUND, IT IS A HISTORY BOOK. IT IS A CLASSROOM, IT'S A LIVING ARCHIVE OF AUSTIN'S BLACK HISTORY. IT IS ONE OF THE LAST PHYSICAL RECORDS OF AUSTIN'S ONE, THRIVING FREEDOM COMMUNITIES, COMMUNITIES FOUNDED BY MEN AND WOMEN WHO WERE MERE A NEWLY FREED FROM SLAVERY AND CHOSE TO BUILD THEIR LIVES, HOLD THEIR FAMILIES AND CHURCHES AND INSTITUTIONS. HERE IN AUSTIN, THE STORY OF THE PEOPLE BURIED IN BETHANY REFLECTS RESILIENCE, FAITH, SERVICE, AND SURVIVAL. THROUGH THEM, WE SEE THE BROADER HISTORY OF THE PEOPLE NAVIGATING FREEDOM IN A CITY THAT WAS NOT ALWAYS WELCOMING THEM. THE MOTTO OF BETHANY CEMETERY ASSOCIATION IS EVERY STONE HAS A STORY. OUR WORK IS ROOTED IN PRESERVING THOSE STORIES, STORIES THAT ARE OFTEN TOO OFTEN OVERLOOKED, ERASED, OR AT RISK OF BEING LOST FOREVER. HISTORIC ZONING IS NOT SIMPLY ABOUT LAND USE, IT IS ABOUT HONORING THE MEMORY, PROTECTING CULTURAL HERITAGE, AND ENSURING THAT THIS HISTORY REMAINS VISIBLE AND RESPECTED FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS. ON BEHALF OF THE BETHANY CEMETERY ASSOCIATION, I STRONGLY SUPPORT THE APPLICATION FOR HISTORIC ZONING FOR BETHANY CEMETERY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND YOUR CONSIDERATION AND YOUR ROLE IN HELPING SAFEGUARD THE SACRED AND SIGNIFICANT PLACE IN AUSTIN FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS. OKAY, MS. MARTIN, THANK YOU, UM, COMMISSIONERS, ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE SPEAKER? RIGHT. WE APPRECIATE YOUR COMING AND BEING. WHAT'S THAT? YEP, GO AHEAD. MS. UM, MARTIN SPEARS. MARTIN, I JUST WANNA SAY THANK YOU. I PASS BY THE CEMETERY ALL THE TIME. I KNOW THE WORK THAT YOU HAVE DONE AND I'VE LEARNED FROM THIS CEMETERY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK. YOU ARE WELCOME. WE APPRECIATE IT. WELCOME. THANK YOU. ARE THERE OTHER SPEAKERS? UH, YES, WE HAVE ELLE RAMOS IN FAVOR. HEY, HOW'S IT GOING? MY NAME IS MESSIAH RAMOS AND I'M SPEAKING IN FAVOR OF THE LAND, UH, MARKING OF THE THE LAND, THE HISTORIC LAND, MARKING OF THE CEMETERY. I'M GONNA READ OFF A STATEMENT REAL REAL QUICK FOR Y'ALL. THE BETHANY CEMETERY'S IMPORTANCE SPEAKS FOR ITSELF. IT'S ONE OF THE FIRST CEMETERIES TO ALLOW BLACK PEOPLE IN AUSTIN TO BE BURIED WITH DIGNITY AND IT HOLDS COUNTLESS STORIES FOUND IN THE CEMETERY ARE TALES THAT RANGE FROM BUFFALO SOLDIERS TO FREEDMEN TO COMMUNITY LEADERS. AND ALL THESE HISTORIES ARE IMPORTANT TO THE HISTORIC AND CULTURAL FABRIC OF AUSTIN, ESPECIALLY EAST AUSTIN. THIS SITE HAS COUNTLESS STORIES. IT TELLS AND SOME THAT ARE STILL BEING DISCOVERED. SO IT'S SIGNIFICANT FOR OUR COMMUNITY TO HAVE IT LANDMARK AND PRESERVED. AND SO WE ASK FOR Y'ALL TO, UH, VOTE IN FAVOR OF THIS LANDMARKING. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, IS THERE ANOTHER SPEAKER? UH, YES, WE HAVE A FEW. UM, WE HAVE CATALINA IN FAVOR. HELLO, MY NAME IS CATALINA AND I AM THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF EAST AUSTIN CONSERVANCY, WHERE OUR MISSION IS TO PRESERVE THE PEOPLE HISTORY AND CULTURE OF EAST AUSTIN BY PROVIDING PROPERTY TAX ASSISTANCE AND OTHER RESOURCES TO FORTIFY THE COMMUNITY. I'M ALSO A PROUD MEMBER OF THE ADVOCACY [00:30:01] COMMITTEE OF PRESERVATION AUSTIN. PRESERVING THE PLACES AND STORIES OF EAST AUSTIN IS CRUCIAL WHEN THESE ARE LOST WHOLE CHAPTERS OF HISTORY ARE RIPPED FROM THE BOOK OF OUR MEMORY, AND THAT IS WHY I AM HERE TO SUPPORT ITEM TWO AND THE HISTORIC ZONING DESIGNATION OF BETHANY CEMETERY. IT HAS BEEN SAID ALREADY, BUT IT IS ALWAYS WORTH REPEATING THIS VERY IMPORTANT HISTORY OF BETHANY CEMETERY ESTABLISHED IN 1893. BETHANY CEMETERY IS THE OLDEST KNOWN BLACK CEMETERY IN AUSTIN PROVIDING CLOSURE AND SERVICES TO A COMMUNITY WHEN THERE WERE FEW OPTIONS TO DO SO. THE CEMETERY HOLDS SO MANY STORIES SUCH AS THOSE OF THE BUFFALO SOLDIERS, STATE OF TEXAS EMPLOYEES, RELIGIOUS LEADERS, ALL KIND OF LEADERS, AND MANY, MANY MORE. IT IS IMPERATIVE TO HONOR THESE STORIES AND THESE LEGACIES. SO ONCE AGAIN, I ASK FOR YOUR SUPPORT. THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION AND FOR YOUR SERVICE TO THE CITY OF AUSTIN. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. NEXT SPEAKER, WE HAVE AERO SMITH IN FAVOR. I AM DR. ARO SMITH. I LIVE AT 8 0 4 PARK BOULEVARD, AND, UH, I ALSO AM AN OFFICER WITH, UH, SAVE AUSTIN CEMETERIES AND I URGE YOU TO SUPPORT THE CHANGE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. NEXT SPEAKER, UH, WE HAVE MEGAN KING NOMAR IN FAVOR. HELLO AGAIN. MEGAN KING NOMAR POLICY AND OUTREACH PLANNER FOR PRESERVATION AUSTIN. AND I'M HERE TODAY TO EXPRESS OUR SUPPORT, UH, FOR THE DESIGNATION OF BETHANY CEMETERY. AS THE CITY OF AUSTIN LANDMARK, BETHANY CEMETERY IS ONE OF AUSTIN'S MOST SIGNIFICANT SITES OF BLACK HERITAGE, AND WE ARE HONORED TO PARTNER WITH BETH BETHANY CEMETERY ASSOCIATION AND ITS LEADER, SUE SPEARS MARTIN. IN PREPARING THIS NOMINATION, EVERYBODY'S GONE OVER THE WELL TROTTED HISTORY OF BETHANY CEMETERY, AND IT'S THE OLDEST KNOWN BLACK CEMETERY IN AUSTIN, PROVIDING BROILS TO AFRICAN AMERICANS IN AUSTIN AT A TIME WHERE THERE WERE VERY FEW OPTIONS TO DO SO. THE PEOPLE LAID TO REST AT BETHANY SPEAK TO THE PLURALITY OF THE AFRICAN AMERICAN EXPERIENCE IN AUSTIN, INCLUDING STORIES OF ENSLAVEMENT AND EMANCIPATION, BUFFALO SOLDIERS, TEXAS, STATE OF TEXAS, EMPLOYEES, RELIGIOUS LEADERS, DOMESTIC WORKERS, ENTREPRENEURS, AND ATHLETES. DURING AN ERA WHEN BLACK LIFE WAS CHRONICALLY UNDER DOCUMENTED IN THE OFFICIAL RECORD, BETHANY CEMETERY PROVIDES A CRITICAL GENEALOGICAL RECORD FOR HUNDREDS OF LIVES WITH NO MUNICIPAL CEMETERY AVAILABLE TO AFRICAN-AMERICANS. AT THE TIME, FIVE BLACK BUSINESSMEN ESTABLISHED THE BATH CEMETERY COMPANY IN 1893 PURCHASING THE LAND AND PROVIDING BURIALS TO BLACK AUSTINITES. BY THE 1930S, EVA TAYLOR ROSS LED THE EFFORT TO CARE FOR THE CEMETERY, WORKING TO BRING ATTENTION AND REMEMBRANCE TO BETHANY CEMETERY UNTIL HER PASSING IN 1992. IN THE MID 1990S, THE MANTLE WAS ASSUMED BY SUE SPEARS MARTIN CURRENT PRESIDENT, WHOSE LEADERSHIP HAS MOBILIZED COMMUNITY SUPPORT, PRESERVED BETHANY'S STORIES AND SUSTAINED RESTORATION EFFORTS AMID NEARBY DEVELOPMENT PRESSURES. BETHANY CEMETERY PROVIDES A CRITICAL LINK TO AUSTIN'S BLACK PASS THAT MUST BE PRESERVED FOR GENERATIONS TO COME. WE ARE PROUD TO SUPPORT THE DESIGNATION OF BETHANY CEMETERY AS A CITY OF AUSTIN LANDMARK. THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION AND YOUR SERVICE. THE CITY OF AUSTIN. THANK YOU. ANY MORE SPEAKERS? WE HAVE NO MORE SPEAKERS. OKAY. UM, COMMISSIONERS, I WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION WITH NO MORE SPEAKERS. I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. SECOND. OKAY, IT'S BEEN MOVED. AND SECOND, WHO, WHO MADE THE MOTION, I GUESS. OKAY. COMMISSIONER COOK AND SECONDED BY, UH, COMMISSIONER PLEASANT WRIGHT. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR PLEASE INDICATE BY SAYING AYE OR RAISING YOUR HAND. THERE WE GO. UH, AND NO ONE OPPOSED. SO HEARING IS CLOSED. UH, COMMISSIONERS, I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION ON THIS ITEM. YES. VICE CHAIR EVANS, PLEASE INDULGE ME BRIEFLY. I HAVE SOME REMARKS. UH, FIRST OF ALL, EXCUSE ME, ALLERGIES. FIRST OF ALL, I'D LIKE TO THANK, UH, MS. UH, SPEARS MARTIN FOR HER STEWARDSHIP OF THE CEMETERY. UH, I'VE LIVED IN AUSTIN LONG ENOUGH THAT I REMEMBER WHEN IT WAS A VERY SAD PLACE. AND TO SEE THE WORK THAT THEY'VE PUT IN AND HER ABILITY TO RALLY THE COMMUNITY AROUND THIS RESOURCE IS REALLY, UH, REALLY TREMENDOUS. AND I APPRECIATE THAT AND I ALSO APPRECIATE THIS COMING BEFORE US, UH, IN OUR FIRST MEETING OF THE NEW YEAR. AND I'M HONORED TO, UH, BE WITH MY COLLEAGUE COMMISSIONER COOK AND MOVING FORWARD THE WORK STARTED BY OUR LATE COLLEAGUE IN FRAN, JUAN RAMON RUBIO. AND IF MY HISTORY IS CORRECT, UH, EVEN THOUGH BETHANY IS IN EAST AUSTIN, THE PEOPLE THERE, THEIR FINAL RESTING PLACE, THEY CAME FROM ALL OVER AUSTIN IN CENTRAL TEXAS. SO THEIR FINAL RESTING PLACE MAY HAVE BEEN IN SEGREGATED EAST AUSTIN, BUT THEY REPRESENT A WIDE ARRAY OF PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER CENTRAL TEXAS. SO I'M VERY [00:35:01] PROUD TO SEE THIS ON OUR AGENDA TONIGHT. THANK YOU FOR INDULGING ME AND VICE CHAIR EVANS. SINCE YOU HAVE THE FLOOR AND WE NEED A MOTION, WOULD YOU BE SO KIND AS TO PROVIDE, UH, YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT? I WOULD BE HONORED TO CLOSE A PUBLIC HEARING. LET'S HAPPEN. WE WE DID DO THAT. WE DID DO THAT. OKAY. I BACK CLOSING THE PUBLIC HEARING BACK, SO YOU JUST NEED A MOTION NOW. SO I MOVE THAT WE INITIATE HISTORIC ZONING FOR THE BETHANY CEMETERY. ALRIGHT. AND IS THERE A SECOND POINT OF ORDER? CAN WE, UH, CAN WE MAKE THAT A RECOMMENDATION, UH, AS IT WAS INITIATED LAST MONTH? BEG YOUR PARDON? CAN WE MAKE THAT A RECOMMENDATION AS IT WAS INITIATED LAST MONTH? YES, WE INITIATED, SO NOW IT WOULD BE A RECOMMENDATION FOR THE, UH, FOR THE, THE FINAL ZONE, UH, UH, DESIGNATION. OKAY. IN THAT CASE, I RECOMMEND THAT, UH, WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THE ACTION TAKEN PREVIOUSLY WITH, WITH THE HISTORIC DESIGNATION. OKAY. THERE WE GO. AND WE NEED A SECOND AND I WILL SECOND AND, UM, REQUEST A CLARIFICATION THAT IT IS ON THE BASIS COMMUNITY VALUE, LANDSCAPE FEATURES AND HISTORICAL ASSOCIATIONS PER ALL THE DOCUMENTATION THAT'S ALREADY ON RECORD, BUT JUST TO GET IT READ INTO THE END OF THE RECORD. AND THAT'S, THAT'S FINE WITH THE MAKER OF THE MOTION. INDEED, YES. ALRIGHT, WE HAVE A MOTION ON THE TABLE FROM VICE CHAIR EVANS, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER COOK. AND I'LL, UH, ASK FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION. UH, VICE CHAIR EVANS. COMMISSIONER COOK? YES. I'LL JUST SAY, UM, I'M IN, THIS IS LONG, LONG OVERDUE AS THE HISTORY SHOWS AND I'M, I'M VERY HONORED TO PLAY A, A PART SMALL PART IN THIS. UM, THIS BEING THE FIRST CEMETERY BEARING AFRICAN AMERICAN CITIZENS WITH HONOR AFTER THE POTTERS FIELD OF OAKWOOD CEMETERY WAS, WAS OVERFILLED. AND, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S A REPRESENTED AN UNCOMFORTABLE HISTORY IN ITS FOUNDING, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO FOCUS ON THE FACT THAT IT IS IN, IN ITS FOUNDING AND IN THE PEOPLE BURIED THERE, WE SEE STORIES OF INSPIRATIONAL UNDERTOLD STORIES OF THE PEOPLE THAT WERE THERE BURIED THERE, THAT LIVED DURING A VERY DIFFICULT PERIOD IN THEIR HISTORY. YEAH, IT'S VERY, FOUNDING IS A STORY OF PRIDE AND RESILIENCE AND, UM, I WAS HONORED TO VISIT WITH MS. PIERCE MARTIN AND JUAN RAYMOND RUBIO AND HEAR SOME OF THOSE STORIES. AND, UM, WE NEED TO BALANCE THE UNCOMFORTABLE HISTORY AND, AND RESPECT THE AMAZING STORIES THAT ARE THERE IN, IN COMBINATION. AND IT'S, UM, SO LONG OVERDUE, UH, TO KNOW THAT IT WAS BROUGHT UP IN 1977 AND THEN IT'S, YOU KNOW, BROUGHT UP AGAIN TWO YEARS AGO. AND NOW, UM, I'M HOPE, UH, THANK YOU MS. BEERS MARTIN, AND I'M HOPING THIS HELPS YOU GET MORE OF THE RESOURCES THAT I KNOW ARE SORELY NEEDED FOR YOU TO CONTINUE YOUR GOOD WORK. UH, THIS DESIGNATION HOPEFULLY WILL, WILL HELP IN THAT ENDEAVOR. SO THANK YOU. OKAY. COMMISSIONERS, OTHER COMMENTS? ALRIGHT, UH, AND I, I THINK THIS IS ONE OF THOSE WHERE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO ASK HOW DID IT TAKE SO LONG? AND, AND YET AT THE SAME TIME, I THINK IT IS, UH, IT IS VERY FITTING AS VICE CHAIR EVANS MENTIONED THAT WE START OUT THIS NEW YEAR PASSING ON A STORY OF CELEBRATION OF HONOR AND DIGNITY, AND THAT WE AS A CITY CAN BESTOW THIS ON AN UNDERSERVED PART OF TOWN, I THINK IS SIGNIFICANT AND I THINK BODES WELL FOR THE REST OF OUR, UH, ENDEAVORS FOR THE YEAR. SO, UH, WITH, WITH, WITH A LOT OF, UH, EXCITEMENT AND, AND, UH, YEAH, AND HONOR THAT, UH, I'M CERTAINLY GOING TO CAST MY VOTE IN FAVOR. UH, IF THERE'S NO MORE DISCUSSION, THEN I WILL CALL THE QUESTION COMMISSIONERS. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. UH, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE INDICATE BY RAISING YOUR HAND. AND I WILL NOTE FOR THE RECORD THAT THE MOTION PASSES UNANIMOUSLY. SO THANK YOU ALL VERY, VERY MUCH. NOW, JUST TO CLARIFY FOR ALL OF YOU IN THE AUDIENCE, OUR JOB'S NOT DONE BY ANY STRETCH. OBVIOUSLY THERE'S LOTS OF WORK TO DO AS STEWARDS OF THIS VERY IMPORTANT PROPERTY, BUT EVEN THE PATH TO PRESERVATION STILL REQUIRES TWO MORE STEPS FROM THE CITY. AND IT DOESN'T, AL YOU THINK THAT JUST BECAUSE THIS AUGUST BODY HAS SAID IT'S A IMPORTANT THING, THAT THE OTHER BODIES WOULD ALSO AGREE, BUT THEY DON'T ALWAYS. SO IT'S UP TO US AND YOUR, WITH YOUR HELP TO REMIND THE PLANNING COMMISSION IN THE CO IN THE CITY COUNCIL AS IT COMES ON THEIR AGENDA, JUST HOW IMPORTANT THIS IS. BUT I THINK IN THIS SITUATION YOU'LL PROBABLY SEE LOTS OF SUPPORT, BUT LET'S NOT LET OUR GUARD DOWN AND TAKE IT FOR GRANTED. UH, PLEASE BE PRESENT FOR BOTH THOSE BODIES AND ALLOW THEM ALSO THE TIME TO JOIN IN THIS AS A, A VERY IMPORTANT MOVE FORWARD. SO WE THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR, YOUR TIME HERE [00:40:01] AND ANYTHING WE CAN DO AS WE CONTINUE THIS EFFORT. THANK YOU SO MUCH. ALL RIGHT. WITH THAT, WE HAVE FINISHED OUR FIRST DISCUSSION ITEM AND WE CAN NOW GO TO [3. HR-2025-158116; C14H-2010-0006 – 1114 W. 10th St. Castle Hill Local Historic District] THE SECOND DISCUSSION ITEM, WHICH IS AN ITEM THAT WAS PULLED BY COMMISSIONER COOK. THAT'S ITEM NUMBER 3 11 14 WEST 10TH STREET. UH, THIS IS A, UH, ITEM THAT IS IN OUR CATEGORY OF, UH, CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. SO THIS IS A, UH, HISTORIC LANDMARK, UH, PROPERTY THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING. SO, UH, MR. LUKES THANK YOU CHAIR. UM, THIS IS A PROPOSAL IN A, UH, IN THE CASTLE HILL LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT, UM, A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, UH, THE PROPOSAL BEING TO REHABILITATE A CONTRIBUTING PROPERTY AND DEMOLISH A NON HISTORIC REAR EDITION AND CONSTRUCT A NEW EDITION IN ITS PLACE. UH, THIS WORK INCLUDES PATCHING OR REPAIRING EXTERIOR MASONRY, STONE AND WOOD, UM, REMOVING INCOMPATIBLE NON HISTORIC INTERVENTIONS, UH, ROOF REPLACEMENT, UM, AND DEMOLISHING A REAR 1970S, UH, ADDITION, INCLUDING A KITCHEN AND THE BATHROOM. THIS RESIDENCE IS A SINGLE STORY STRUCTURE WITH A FRONT PORCH AT ONE CORNER OF THE STREET FACING ELEVATION AND A PROJECTING FRONT ROOM AT THE OTHER. THE HOUSE IS ELEVATED ON PIERS WITH THE VENTED CRAWL SPACE AND THE WALLS ARE CLADDING WHITE STONE. THERE ARE SEVERAL LARGE WINDOWS PRESENT AT THE FRONT AND A LARGE GABLE ROOF HANGS OVER THE MAIN FACADE. THE CASTLE HILL DESIGN STANDARDS, UH, FOR THE CASTLE HILL LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT ARE USED TO EVALUATE PROJECTS WITHIN THIS, UH, DISTRICT. UM, THE PROJECT MEETS SOME OF THE APPLICABLE STANDARDS AND THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS TO APPROVE THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AND AGAIN, JUST TO CLARIFY, SINCE THIS IS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE IN A LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT, WE HAVE A, BASICALLY OUR RESPONSIBILITY IS FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. UH, THIS IS APPROPRIATE. THEY MAY PROCEED. IF IT'S NOT APPROPRIATE, THEY MAY NOT PROCEED. THAT'S NOT THE SAME WITH SOME OF THE OTHER CASES WE HEAR. SO I WANNA POINT OUT TO THE AUDIENCE THE IMPORTANCE OF LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICTS. AND THAT'S WHY THIS IS, UH, WELL THIS IS PROBABLY WHY COMMISSIONER COOKY PULLED THE CASE. SO, UH, WE CAN GO AHEAD WITH A, UH, FIRST SPEAKER IF WE HAVE ONE. IS THE OWNER HERE? YES, WE HAVE THE APPLICANT. LINDSAY MACKEY THE OWNER. I'M OKAY. OKAY. Y'ALL CAN GO TOGETHER IF YOU'D LIKE. HI, I'M JENNIFER SHELL AND MY HUSBAND AND I ARE THE OWNERS OF 1411 WEST 10TH. AND I'M LINDSAY MACKEY, ONE OF THE ARCHITECTS FOR THIS PROJECT. OKAY. AND WE MAY PROCEED WITH YOUR, UH, DISCUSSION OTHER, BUT, BUT IT MAY, I I I MIGHT SUGGEST THAT IT, SINCE COMMISSIONER COOK YOU PULLED IT, THERE MAY BE SOMETHING VERY SPECIFIC THAT SHE WOULD LIKE THE APPLICANT TO ADDRESS. YES, YOU'RE WELCOME TO TAKE YOUR TIME PRESENTING, BUT I DO HAVE TWO VERY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS DEPENDING ON HOW YOU'D LIKE TO MOVE FORWARD. GO FOR THE QUESTIONS. OKAY. UM, MY FIRST QUESTION IS THE WINDOW REPLACEMENT ON THE FRONT SIDE, THE STANDARDS SAY THAT YOU SHOULD REPAIR RATHER THAN REPLACE WINDOWS. ARE THEY, FROM THE PHOTOS I SAW, THEY'RE IN PRETTY GOOD CONDITION. WOULD YOU BE AMENABLE TO RESTORING THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS ON THE HISTORIC HOUSE, AT LEAST THE FRONT STREET FACING FACADE AND PREFERABLY THE SIDES? UM, WE WOULD BE AMENABLE. THE O WE, WHAT WE WERE GOING TO DO WAS REPLACE THEM WITH WINDOWS LOOK THAT LOOK EXACTLY THE SAME, BUT THAT ARE MUCH MORE ENERGY EFFICIENT. AND THAT'S WHAT WE WERE GOING FOR, BUT WE WOULD BE AMENABLE IF YOU SO TOO. OKAY. YEAH, IT'S OFTEN A POINT OF, IT'S A CONTROVERSIAL POINT, BUT TECHNICALLY YOU HAVE TO KEEP THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS BECAUSE OF THE MATERIAL THEY'RE MADE FROM. AND, UH, THE DOUBLE PANE, YOU KNOW, MORE EFFICIENT WINDOWS AREN'T GONNA LOOK LIKE THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS. UH, AND THE SECOND QUESTION I HAD WAS ABOUT THE REPRODUCTION OF THE FRONT PORCH RAILING. WAS THAT BASED ON HISTORIC PHOTO EVIDENCE OR, I'LL ADDRESS THAT. WE DON'T HAVE ANY SPECIFIC EVIDENCE OF WHAT WAS ORIGINALLY ON THE STRUCTURE. UM, OBVIOUSLY WE BASED THE DETAILING OF THAT SPECIFIC RAILING ON RAILINGS OF THAT PERIOD. THIS IS AN AREA THAT'S COMPLETELY OPEN FOR SUGGESTION, INTERPRETATION. UM, WE'RE NOT MARRIED OR WED TO A SPECIFIC RAILING. WE JUST WANNA PUT SOMETHING THAT'S MORE APPROPRIATE THAN THE PORCH THAT'S ON THE HOUSE NOW. THANK YOU. YOU OKAY. UM, ANY OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE QUESTIONS FROM THE APPLICANT? UH, COMMISSIONER COOK, DO YOU FEEL LIKE WE NEED TO PROCEED WITH A FULL PRESENTATION OR DISCUSSION? UH, I THINK NOW THAT THE BALL IS ROLLING, WE TECHNICALLY HAVE TO GO THROUGH ALL THE, WELL WE DO, BUT ALL THE STEPS, BUT YEAH. UM, I'M HOPEFULLY GOING TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WOULD ALLOW FOR THE ARCHITECTURAL [00:45:01] REVIEW COMMITTEE TO POSSIBLY, UH, REVIEW AND RELEASE THIS IN A WEEK RATHER THAN HAVING TO POSTPONE FOR A WHOLE MONTH. BUT I THINK WE'LL GET TO THAT UNDER, UNDER DISCUSSION. I THINK THOSE, THE, THE WINDOWS ALONE, I THINK IF THERE WERE A CHANGE TO THE WINDOWS, UH, I'D BE FINE WITH THAT, BUT I ALSO LIKE A LITTLE MORE DISCUSSION ABOUT THE RAILING. OKAY, THANK YOU. SO IF THERE ARE ANY OTHER ITEMS YOU WOULD WANT TO HAVE AS PART OF YOUR, UH, PRESENTATION OR DISCUSSION, UM, WE'RE, I'M HAPPY TO PRESENT. UM, WE SUBMITTED OBVIOUSLY IMAGES, UM, EXISTING AND PROPOSED DRAWINGS SIDE BY SIDE OF SITE PLAN AND ELEVATION. UM, IF SOMEONE WANTS TO PUT THOSE ON THE SCREEN, I WOULD BE HAPPY TO WALK THROUGH THEM, BUT IT DOESN'T, I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S NECESSARY OUTTA RESPECT FOR YOUR TIME. WHATEVER YOU THINK IS APPROPRIATE. WHY DON'T WE DO THIS? UH, DO, LET'S DO AN ABBREVIATED VERSION BECAUSE I, I THINK THE, THE VAST, UH, MAJORITY OF WHAT YOU ARE PROPOSING, UH, AND THIS IS JUST WHAT I'VE OBSERVED, UH, WAS THAT THERE'S SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF NEW ADDITION, BUT IT'S EXTREMELY RESPECTFULLY DONE. IT'S ALL IN THE BACK, IT'S HIDDEN FROM THE STREET. AND I THINK THE CARE WITH WHICH THE CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE HAS BEEN HANDLED, UH, OBVIOUSLY WITH SOME OF THESE DETAILS STILL TO BE RESOLVED IS, IS VERY LAUDABLE AND, UH, I THINK FOR THE RECORD TO BE ABLE TO SHOW EVEN QUICKLY WHAT IT IS YOU'VE DONE IS A WAY TO POINT TO HOW TO DO IT RIGHT. SO, UH, YES, IF YOU WOULD INDULGE US WITH JUST THE QUICK VERSION, WE'D APPRECIATE IT. CERTAINLY. UM, THANK YOU. THAT'S KIND OF YOU AND I JUST, I GUESS MY ONLY POINT THAT'S MORE PERSONAL, LESS PROFESSIONAL IS JENNIFER AND KIRK WHO ISN'T HERE TONIGHT, ARE THE TYPES OF OWNERS THAT YOUR REL COMMISSION WANT TO TAKE OVER RESPONSIBILITY OF THESE WONDERFUL LITTLE JEWEL LIKE PROPERTIES IN AUSTIN. I MEAN, THEY PRESERVE PROPERTIES IN OTHER STATES, THEY'RE LONGTIME AUSTIN RESIDENTS. THE TRUE SPIRIT OF THIS RENOVATION IS TO DO THIS IN THE PROPER WAY. AND IF THE COMMISSION OR THE A RC OR THE NEIGHBORHOOD, ANYONE HAS A POINT OF VIEW ON THE APPROPRIATENESS OF A DETAIL OR A RAILING, THE SPIRIT OF THIS IS THAT WE'RE WILLING TO MODIFY ANY OF THAT, THAT WE'RE NOT MARRIED TO IT. THIS ISN'T MEANT TO BE ARGUMENTATIVE. IT'S MEANT TO SORT OF HONOR THE STRUCTURE. THANK YOU. UM, AND SO IF I DON'T KNOW WHO'S FLIPPING , UM, OBVIOUSLY WE'RE LOOKING AT THE EXISTING, THIS IS PROBABLY TAKEN A FEW MONTHS AGO. THIS IS AN IMAGE OF THE PORCH THAT WAS ADDED IN THE 1970S. UM, IT'S STRUCTURALLY NOT IN GREAT CONDITION. WE COULD OF COURSE FIX THAT IF IT WAS WORTH PRESERVING. UM, WE CAN TELL IT WAS BUILT DURING THAT PERIOD BECAUSE IT MATCHES THE CONSTRUCTION MATERIALITY AND DETAILS OF THE ADDITION THAT WAS PUT ON THE BACK. UM, THESE ARE THE TWO DOORS THAT, UM, WE'RE PRESERVING BOTH OF THESE THAT ARE ON OFF OF THE PORCH. ONCE THE FRONT DOOR, ONE SORT OF GOES TO THE EXISTING LIVING ROOM, AGAIN, SHORT OF A REFURBISHMENT AND REPAIR OF HARDWARE PAINT, YOU KNOW THE RIGHT, WE, WE LOVE THEM. THIS IS AN IMAGE OF THE ADDITION THAT'S OFF THE BACK AS YOU'RE FAMILIAR THAT THESE BARRACKS WERE BUILT WITHOUT KITCHENS AND BATHROOMS. SO WHOEVER HAD TO BUILD THIS ADDITION GOT VERY CREATIVE. UM, BUT IT WAS A, YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU BOUGHT IT FROM THE ORIGINAL OR THE SECOND OWNER? SECOND OWNER. SECOND OWNER. UM, SHE RECENTLY PASSED. UM, SO YOU SAY THAT WITH RESPECT, SHE LIVED THERE, I THINK SHE WAS A PROFESSOR FOR MANY YEARS. UM, BUT YES, THAT THIS IS THE ADDITION THAT WOULD BE REMOVED. THIS IS AT THE BACK OF THE PROPERTY FOR, FOR ITS TIME. IT WAS PRETTY SERVICEABLE. VERY, VERY, ABSOLUTELY. SO, UM, THIS IS THE SORT OF BREEZEWAY BETWEEN THAT EXISTING ADDITION AND THAT TWO, THERE'S A TWO, IT'S ACTUALLY A CARPORT AND LIKE A TWO STORY CARRIAGE HOUSE THAT'S AT THE BACK. THESE WILL, THIS WILL ALL BE REMOVED. UM, THIS IS JUST FOCUSING ON SOME OF THE EXISTING EAVES AND OBVIOUSLY ALL THIS PANELING AND DETAIL AND SUFFOLK DETAIL WOULD ALL BE PRESERVED. AGAIN. YOU'RE SORT OF SEEING A DETAIL OF THOSE 1970S PORCH, UM, COLUMNS. UH, THE, THE STONE WORK IS IN WONDERFUL CONDITION. UM, CURRENTLY THERE'S JUST LATH AND PLASTER, NOT THAT YOU CARE ABOUT THE INTERIOR, BUT WE'RE, WE'RE HOPING TO EXPOSE MORE OF SOME OF THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE ON THE INTERIOR AS WELL. OKAY. UM, YOU ARE LOOKING AT A SIDE BY SIDE, THE ORIGINAL SITE PLAN OR THE EXISTING SITE PLAN IS AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE AND THEN SORT OF THE PROPOSED AT THE BACK. UM, DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW THAT THAT'S YEAH, WE CAN, YOU KNOW, WE CAN FLIP. UM, LET'S GET TO THE FRONT. YEAH, I THINK MAYBE SINCE, YEAH, THIS IS STUFF, THIS IS ALL WE REQUIRED. UM, LET'S GO TO THE FRONT ELEVATION. YEAH. THIS ROOF. YEAH. HERE'S SORT OF THE SIDE BY SIDE. UM, THE TOP ELEVATION IS THE TOP UPPER RIGHT HAND CORNER IS THE EXISTING FRONT ELEVATION WITH THAT PORCH, WE WERE JUST LOOKING AT THE LOWER RIGHT IS THE PROPOSED, UM, ELEVATION OF THE NEW PORCH. AND YOU KNOW, FAIR FULL DISCLOSURE, WHEN WE WERE SORT OF IN LOOKING AT THIS FROM A DESIGN PERSPECTIVE, WE LOOKED AT IT WITH LIKE LESS ORNAMENTATION, MORE ORNAMENTATION, NO RAILING. WE ACTUALLY AREN'T REQUIRED TO EVEN HAVE A RAILING FROM A ZONING PERSPECTIVE. I THINK YOU GUYS ARE OPEN TO THAT AS WELL. I MEAN, AGAIN, WE WOULD APPRECIATE FEEDBACK. UM, THESE ARE SORT OF THE SIDE ELEVATIONS [00:50:03] REAR. I'M SORRY, YEAH. OTHER SIDE AND YEAH, REAR AND THEN THE GARAGE. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, WELL THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH, ANY QUESTIONS OF THE APPLICANT? OKAY. UM, IF YOU'RE FINISHED WITH YOUR PRESENTATION THEN ARE THERE OTHER SPEAKERS ON THIS ITEM? THERE ARE NO OTHER SPEAKERS ON THIS ITEM. OKAY. UH, THEN COMMISSIONERS, I WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. SO MOVED. OKAY. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. OKAY. COMMISSIONER COOK, SECONDED BY, UH, LET'S EXCUSE ME. COMMISSIONER ACTON. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE INDICATE BY RAISING YOUR HAND AND IT'S UNANIMOUS. THE COMMISSION, UH, HAS VOTED TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND NOW I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION ON THIS ITEM. I'LL TRY TO KEEP IT CLEAN IN MOVING TO APPROVE THE CERTIFICATE APPROPRIATENESS WITH THE RESTORATION OF THE WINDOWS ON THE HISTORIC HOUSE RATHER THAN REPLACEMENT. OKAY. AND THAT'S SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LAROCHE. RIGHT. WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK TO YOUR MOTION? YEAH, I THINK WE HAVE THE DISCUSSION HERE. IT'S, UM, IT'S JUST A VERY CLEAR REQUIREMENT. UM, THERE ARE INTERIOR WINDOW INSERT YOU CAN LOOK AT TO GET THE, UM, ENERGY EFFICIENCY YOU'RE LOOKING FOR WHILE RETAINING THE ORIGINAL MATERIAL, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY'RE IN, IN SUCH GOOD SHAPE. THEY'RE JUST KEY CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURE OF THE HOUSE AND, AND, UH, AS, AS THEY SAY, WOULDN'T BE DOING MY JOB HERE IF WE DIDN'T TRY TO EN ENFORCE KEEPING THE HISTORIC WINDOWS. 'CAUSE THAT ISN'T THE STANDARD. SO I APPRECIATE YOUR BEING AMENABLE TO THAT. AND IN TERMS OF THE ISSUE OF POTENTIAL FALSE HISTORICISM ON THE RAILING, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO EVIDENCE. I THINK, UH, WITH THE RECORD YOU HAVE IN DOCUMENTATION THAT'LL BE ON FILE WITH CITY RECORDS THAT, UH, ANYONE WHO'S INTERESTED IN KNOWING THE HISTORY OF THIS HOUSE, IT'LL BE CLEAR THAT THIS WAS REPRODUCED AT THE TIME AND APPRECIATE YOU LOOKING AND BEING SENSITIVE TO IT, BEING APPROPRIATE TO THE HOUSE. UH, YOU KNOW, IDEALLY IT'S VERY CLEAR TO ANYONE THAT IT'S NOT ORIGINAL, BUT IT'S HARD TO BE THAT DIFFERENT, UH, BEING APPROPRIATE WHILE, UH, NOT BEING VERY CLEARLY NOT BELONGING TO THE HOUSE. SO I THINK THIS DISCUSSION AND THE RECORD IS SUFFICIENT FROM, UH, FROM MY POINT OF VIEW FOR, FOR THAT. AND JUST TO NOTE, FALSE STOICISM ISN'T SPECIFICALLY NOTED IN THE CASTLE HILLS STANDARDS ANYWAY, SO, OKAY. COMMISSIONER LAROCHE? NO, I JUST WANT TO THANK THEM FOR THEIR EFFORTS IN TAKING THE APPROACH THAT THEY TOOK, PARTICULARLY WITH THE PRESERVATION ASPECT IN THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE. AND I DO AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER THAT THE, THE WINDOWS ARE IN GREAT SHAPE AND, AND THEREFORE SHOULD DEFINITELY BE PRESERVED ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION. COMMISSIONER ACTON, I HAVE A QUESTION. UM, DO WE NEED TO PROVIDE ANY CLARIFYING LANGUAGE ON THAT TO, ITS THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS. MAKE SURE WE GET THAT . DO WE NEED TO CLARIFY THE LANGUAGE REGARDING SPECIFICALLY WHICH WINDOWS, THE ONES THAT ARE IN THE FRONT AND SIDE ELEVATIONS OF AREAS TO REMAIN? OR DO YOU THINK THAT THE LANGUAGE OF THE ORIGINAL MOTION IS CLEAR ENOUGH ON THAT POINT? UH, IN MY MOTION I'VE REQUESTED THE FRONT AND THE SIDES. UH, FOR, UM, FOR DISTRICTS TYPICALLY, YOU KNOW, WE WANT THE FRONT AND THE FIRST 15 FEET AROUND THE CORNER AND THAT GETS MOST OF THE WINDOWS. AND I'D RATHER GO AHEAD AND LEAVE THE MOTION JUST TO LEAVE THEM ALL. NO, FINE. I JUST, UH, IF THERE'S ANY IN LIKE, WHAT I DON'T WANT THAT LANGUAGE TO EXTEND TO IS ANYTHING THAT'S INTENDED TO BE DEMOLISHED AND NOW IT, IT CROSSED. OH, FOR SURE. SO I JUST WANTED MAKE ANY INTENDED TO REMAIN THAT AREN'T GONNA BE DEMOLISHED AS PART OF THE ADDITION. UH, YEAH. OKAY. APPRECIATE THE CLARIFICATION. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? OKAY, I'M JUST SAY AGAIN. UM, YEAH, I WISH WE COULD CLONE YOU. I'VE GOT ABOUT A HALF A DOZEN CASES FROM THE LAST YEAR THAT WOULD'VE BEEN WONDERFUL IF IF YOUR APPROACH HAD BEEN TAKEN WOULD'VE SAVED US A LOT OF GRIEF. BUT, UH, WE WISH YOU WELL WITH THE PROJECT AND UH, I CERTAINLY WILL SUPPORT THE MOTION. UH, NO MORE DISCUSSION. LEMME CALL THE QUESTION. THOSE IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION IS STATED. PLEASE INDICATE BY RAISING YOUR HAND AND ANY OPPOSED? I SEE ALL HANDS WERE RAISED IS UNANIMOUS. THANK YOU ALL. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ALRIGHT, UH, THE NEXT ITEM [4. HR-2025-158169; C14H-1986-0003 – 3710 Cedar St. Confederate Woman's Home ] FOR DISCUSSION IS ITEM NUMBER FOUR. AND THAT'S, UH, UH, AGAIN, IT'S A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. ALRIGHT, THIS IS A CERTIFICATE FOR APPROPRIATENESS, UH, AT A UH, CITY OF AUSTIN LANDMARK, THE CONFEDERATE WOMEN'S HOME. UM, THIS IS A PROPOSAL TO CONSTRUCT TWO COURTYARD ADDITIONS AT, UH, THE CITY OF AUSTIN LANDMARK. UM, INCLUDING A TWO STORY ADDITION BETWEEN THE BE BEHIND THE MAIN STRUCTURE OF THE CONFEDERATE WOMEN'S HOME, UH, ALSO A REAR ADDITION AT THE REAR HOME LANE FACING SERVICE STRUCTURE. AND THEN ALSO TO REPLACE WINDOWS AS REQUIRED DUE TO FAILURE OR DETERIORATION. THE CITY OF AUSTIN'S HISTORIC DESIGN STANDARDS ARE BASED ON THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR REHABILITATION AND ARE USED TO EVALUATE PROJECTS AT HISTORIC LANDMARKS. UH, THE PROJECT MEETS SOME OF THE APPLICABLE STANDARDS. UM, THIS PRO A SIMILAR PROJECT CAME BEFORE THE, UM, UH, ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE, [00:55:01] UM, ATTENDED. THEY ATTEND, THE APPLICANTS ATTENDED THE APRIL, 2025 AND, UH, MAY, 2025. ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE PROJECT PROPOSALS PRESENTED AT THESE MEETINGS ADDRESS NEW CONSTRUCTION AT THE SOUTHERN NON LANDMARKED HALF OF THE PROPERTY AND ARE NOT INCLUDED IN THIS APPLICATION. UM, THEREFORE STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS TO POSTPONE THE PUBLIC HEARING TO THE FEBRUARY 4TH, 2026 MEETING AND INVITE THE APPLICANT TO THE JANUARY 14TH, 2026 MEETING OF THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE. UM, ONE FURTHER NOTE, THE APPLICATION DOES TIME OUT ON MARCH 23RD, 2026, GIVING TWO ADDITIONAL MEETINGS FOR THE HISTORIC LANDMARK COMMISSION TO ACT ON THIS, UH, APPLICATION. THANK YOU. OKAY, THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS OF STAFF? ALRIGHT, UM, CAN WE HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT? OKAY. HI, I AM ABBY PENNER. UM, I'M HERE AS THE APPLICANT AND WE ARE, UM, AMENABLE TO THE POSTPONEMENT. WE'VE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH AUSTIN ON THIS AND ARE WORKING WITH THE ARCHITECT TO KIND OF FLESH OUT, UM, THESE ADDITIONS AND BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT IT NEXT WEEK AT THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE AND THEN BE BACK FOR Y'ALL IN FEBRUARY. OKAY. AND I KNOW THIS ISN'T PART OF YOUR PRESENTATION, BUT HOW DOES THIS RELATE TO THE, UH, PROPOSED ADDITIONS THAT WERE PRESENTED IN THE, IN THE SPRING LAST YEAR? SO, UH, TO SOUTH OF YOUR PROPERTY? SO, YEAH, SO THAT PORTION OF THE PROPERTY IS NOT ZONED HISTORIC AND THESE BUILDINGS DO NOT CONNECT LIKE, PHYSICALLY AT ALL. UM, SO, SO THAT, THAT IS PROCEEDING AT THIS POINT AND IT'S NOT UNDER REVIEW. YEAH, SO WE, WE HAVE NOT SUBMITTED FOR BUILDING PERMITS YET. UM, WE'VE STARTED WITH CIVIL PERMITS, BUT THAT'S AS FAR AS WE'VE GOTTEN SO FAR. BUT, UH, HOWEVER, WHEN IT'S ALL FINISHED, THE USE OF THAT PROPERTY AND THIS HISTORIC PROPERTY WITH ITS ADDITIONS ARE ALL BEING PLANNED AS AS ONE DEVELOPMENT. AS ONE DEVELOPMENT, YES. ONE INTEGRAL DEVELOPMENT. SO I, I THINK I, I CAN PROBABLY SPEAK FOR THE A RC, IT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL IF THIS MOTION DOES FOLLOW STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION THAT THE ENTIRE PROJECT BE PRESENTED, EVEN IF IT'S VERY CLEAR THAT THE FOCUS IS JUST ON THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. I THINK IT WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR US TO SEE THE FULL CONTEXT. AUSTIN, DO YOU HAVE, UM, UH, NO, WE CAN, UM, DISCUSS THAT. A RC. OKAY. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. I, I DON'T BELIEVE, AS I RECALL, IT'S IN OUR PACKET TONIGHT, BUT I, I, LET ME REQUEST THAT ON BEHALF OF THE A RC MM-HMM . OKAY. ALRIGHT. UM, WE HAVE SOME QUESTIONS FROM COMMISSIONERS. COMMISSIONER LAROCHE. OKAY. KAYLIN, IT'S PROBABLY BEEN WAITING FOR THIS ONE, BUT I'D LIKE TO RE ASK THE APPLICANT IF SHE WOULD ALSO CONSIDER EXTENDING THE TIME WITH YOUR, WITH THE POSTPONEMENT. YEAH, I MEAN, YEAH, WE, WE JUST, WE WENT AHEAD AND SUBMITTED THIS APPLICATION. WE, AGAIN, WE HAVEN'T SUBMITTED FOR BUILDING PERMITS YET, SO WE HAVE SOME TIME TO CONTINUE TO WORK THROUGH THIS. OKAY. WE JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE STARTED THE PROCESS ON TIME AND HAD PLENTY OF TIME TO TALK WITH Y'ALL AND ANY OTHER STAKEHOLDERS. OKAY. SO I HAVE NO MORE QUESTIONS ON THAT CHAIR. ANYBODY ELSE HAVE COMMENTS FOR THE APPLICANT? BECAUSE I DO WHEN THIS CAME BEFORE THE A RCI HAPPENED TO BE AT THAT MEETING. YEAH, I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH THIS BUILDING AS I, UH, LIVED IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD FOR 20 YEARS, UH, MANY YEARS AGO. AND IT HAS ALWAYS BOTHERED ME THAT THAT TURD IN THE FRONT, UH, WITH THE FUNNY MARY POPPINS HAT MM-HMM . UH, WHICH SCREAMS OUT SIXTIES AND SEVENTIES, NOT HISTORIC. UH, IF YOU ARE DOING THIS MUCH WORK TO YOUR BUILDING AND THAT MUCH WORK TO THE BACK, IS THERE A GHOST OF A CHANCE THAT WE COULD ADDRESS THAT AND PUT BACK WHAT WAS TAKEN OUT? YEAH, SO THE, THE ROOFS I'VE GOTTEN LOTS OF, YOU KNOW, THOUGHTS ON, UM, WE OBVIOUSLY DON'T LOVE THEM. I KNOW THAT YOU DON'T LOVE THEM. I HAVEN'T MET ANYONE WHO DOES, BUT WE ALSO, WE HAVE TO GO TO THE STATE AND IF THE STATE SAYS NO, LEAVE IT, YOU KNOW, NO, THE STATE WON'T SAY LEAVE IT. OKAY. IF THEY DID, AS LONG, AS LONG AS NO ONE TELLS ME TO, I'M HAPPY TO. I'LL WEIGH IN AND TELL. I DON'T JUST DON'T LIKE IT, I DESPISE IT. UH, IT'S JUST, IT IS IN THE, IT'S YOU TAKE A BEAUTIFUL HISTORIC BUILDING WITH A WONDERFUL HISTORY AND IT'S JUST LIKE YOU WALK BY IT EVERY TIME AND IT'S SOMETHING, ITS NOSE AT IT. I JUST, I CAN'T SEE IT OTHERWISE. SO, BECAUSE I KNOW THERE'S BEEN, THIS MAY BE TOO TECHNICAL, BUT I KNOW THERE'S BEEN A COUPLE ITERATIONS OF THOSE ROOFS. LIKE I KNOW AT ONE POINT IT WAS LIKE MORE TURD AND AT ONE POINT IT WAS JUST MORE OF A STANDARD ROOF. SO MAYBE IF YOU HAVE A ROOF THAT YOU'RE THINKING OF IN MIND, LET ME KNOW. UM, BECAUSE YEAH, IT'S NOTHING THAT WE, LIKE MY ARCHITECT ALSO DESPISES [01:00:01] IT AND MAKES THAT KNOWN ANYTIME I TALK TO HIM. SO, WELL, LET ME WEIGH IN ON THAT. YEAH. AND IF YOU COULD SEE IT AS YOU'RE TALKING TO THE A RC, UH, SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS GOING BACK TO THE PERIOD OF, OF ARCHITECTURAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THE BUILDING AND LOOKING AT WHAT WOULD'VE BEEN CONTEMPORARY AT THAT TIME OR IF IT'S A RANGE, IF THERE ARE, IF THERE WERE VERSIONS AT THAT DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME, THAT'S WHAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE. SOUNDS GOOD. AND WITH ALL THE WORK YOU'RE DOING, IT SEEMS LIKE JUST THE MOST OBVIOUS THING TO INCLUDE. YEAH, NO, WE, WE HAVE NO MOTIONAL ATTACHMENT TO THOSE HATS ON TOP OF THOSE TARTS. WELL, I, I DO AND IT'S NOT A GOOD ONE, . WELL, OKAY. I HAVE NO POSITIVE EMOTIONAL ATTACHMENT TO THIS . OKAY. ALRIGHT. ANY OTHER COMMENTS? COMMISSIONERS? OKAY. NOBODY ELSE HATES ANY OTHER PART OF THE BUILDING. JUST, JUST THAT ONE AND I GET THE PRIVILEGE, SO. ALRIGHT. UM, ARE THERE OTHER SPEAKERS ON? THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR DISCUSSION. UH, OTHER SPEAKERS ON THIS ITEM? YES. WE HAVE ONE OTHER SPEAKER IN OPPOSITION. NICHOLAS WALLACE. OKAY, WELCOME AND THANK YOU. JUST READ YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD. YES, GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS NICHOLAS WALLACE. UM, I AM A NEIGHBOR OF THE PROJECT ON 37TH STREET. UM, I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF EXCITEMENT ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF, UM, THE APPLICANT TO BE ABLE TO GET FEDERAL REHABILITATION CREDITS AS WELL AS STATE LOW INCOME HOUSING TAX CREDITS TO SUPPORT THIS PROJECT. AND I THINK IT'LL BE A WONDERFUL THING IF WE ARE ABLE TO RESTORE THE STRUCTURE. UM, I SHARE STAFF'S CONCERN WITH THE COMPLETENESS OF THE APPLICATION THAT HAS BEEN SUBMITTED AND WOULD SUPPORT POSTPONING AT THIS TIME. UM, ONE OF MY CONCERNS, UM, HAS ALREADY BEEN ECHOED HERE THAT, UM, IT SEEMS THAT IT WILL BE DIFFICULT FOR THE COMMISSION TO BE ABLE TO EVALUATE THE, UM, THE PROJECT IN ITS TOTALITY, UM, INCLUDING THE NEW CONSTRUCTION ON SITE, WHICH IS A LARGER TALLER TOWER THAT IS TO BE BUILT, UM, ON THE SOUTH PORTION OF THE SITE. UM, AND HOW THAT MAY IMPACT THE LANDMARK STRUCTURE. UM, IF, IF THOSE ARE NOT INCLUDED IN THE MATERIALS. UM, I ALSO SHARED THE CONCERN ABOUT THE TURRET THAT YOU RAISED. UM, AND I WOULD JUST LIKE TO NOTE, UM, ALSO FOR THE APPLICANT'S BENEFIT THAT, UM, IN THE AUSTIN AIRPORT, THERE ARE SNAPSHOTS OF HISTORIC AUSTIN BOOKS THAT INCLUDE SNAPSHOTS OF THE CONFEDERATE WOMAN'S HOME, UM, AT THE TIME OF THE HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE. AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE THAT THERE WAS SORT OF A PARAPET, UM, UH, AN IN STONE, UM, MATCHING THE REST OF THE STONE THAT WAS, UM, ON THE TOP OF THE BUILDING. SO, YOU KNOW, I'M VERY CURIOUS IF THAT WAS REMOVED OR IF IT MAY STILL EXIST UNDER THE, UM, EXISTING HAT STRUCTURE. UM, THERE ARE ALSO SOME PHOTOGRAPHS IN THAT BOOK OF WHAT THE VIEW FROM 38TH STREET LOOKED LIKE, UM, AT THE TIME OF HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE. UM, IT WAS SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT THAN, UM, THE WAY IN WHICH IT HAS BEEN ALTERED TODAY. THERE WERE PORCHES, UM, SOME BEAUTIFUL WINDOWS, UM, ET CETERA. SO I'D REALLY ENCOURAGE CONSULTING ALL OF THOSE AVAILABLE HISTORIC MATERIALS. UM, I'VE BEEN IN TOUCH WITH THE AUSTIN HISTORY CENTER, THOUGH, UM, HAD NOT BEEN ABLE TO GO DURING THEIR PERIOD OF CLOSURE TO, UM, ACCESS ANY, UH, ADDITIONAL MATERIALS THAT MAY BE THERE. UM, LET ME SEE. UM, OKAY, ANOTHER, UM, POINT THAT I WOULD LIKE TO NOTE, UM, IS THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, OUR UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE APPLICANT IS SEEKING FEDERAL, UH, HISTORIC REHABILITATION TAX CREDITS AND THAT THAT WOULD LIKELY BE A MUCH MORE COMPREHENSIVE APPLICATION THAT MIGHT DESCRIBE, YOU KNOW, WHETHER THE PAINT THAT HAS BEEN ADDED TO THE LIMESTONE, FOR EXAMPLE, WOULD BE REMOVED OR LEFT IN PLACE. AND I'D REALLY ENCOURAGE THE SUBMISSION OF A SIMILAR LEVEL OF DETAIL, UM, ABOUT ALL OF THE CHANGES THAT MAY BE PROPOSED AS A PART OF THE RESTORATION PROCESS SO THAT THIS COMMISSION CAN, UM, EVALUATE THOSE, UM, AS WELL. UM, FINALLY, I'D LIKE TO NOTE, I THINK AS EVIDENCED BY THE NAME, THAT THE SITE OBVIOUSLY HAS A COMPLICATED AND NUANCED, UM, HISTORY. THERE IS ON THE SITE CURRENTLY A STATE OF TEXAS, UM, PLAQUE THAT HAS BEEN ERECTED, UM, DESCRIBING ONE ACCOUNT TO THE HISTORY OF THE SITE AND ADJACENT TO IT WITH THE CURRENT OWNERS THE AGE OF CENTRAL TEXAS, UM, UH, LOGO ON IT. THEY HAVE ERECTED A GREEN SIGN THAT AMPLIFIES THE ACCOUNT TO THE HISTORY PROVIDED ON THE STATE SIGN. UM, I THINK THAT WE, UH, WOULD OWE IT TO THE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE GOING TO CALL THIS HOME TO PROVIDE THEM SOME ELABORATION IF, UH, AND INTERPRETATION OF THE SITE'S HISTORY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS OF THE SPEAKER? OKAY. ARE THERE OTHER SPEAKERS? THERE ARE NO OTHER SPEAKERS. OKAY. UM, COMMISSIONERS, UH, I WILL, WE HAD A REQUEST FROM STAFF TO, UH, POSTPONE THIS SO IT CAN BE REVIEWED AT THE A RC. UH, I DON'T HEAR AN OBJECTION FROM THE OWNER, UH, AND THAT WE'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION AND REMIND THE COMMISSIONERS THAT WHOEVER MAKES THIS MOTION, THIS ONE WOULD REQUIRE YOU TO ALSO MAKE SURE THAT THE PUBLIC HEARING REMAINS OPEN. IS THAT CORRECT? [01:05:02] IS THAT WE KEEP THE PUBLIC HEARING OPEN IF WE'RE POSTPONING IT. RIGHT. OKAY. DO WE HAVE TO CLOSE IT FIRST? DO WE CLOSE IT FIRST AND THEN REOPEN IT? WE DON'T, DO WE NEED TO CLOSE IT TO MAKE, GET A MOTION? WE'VE BEEN DOING IT THAT WAY. IT SEEMS REDUNDANT. IF YOU, WE DO THAT, WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND THEN WE'LL OPEN IT AGAIN. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. I MOVE TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. SECOND. ALL RIGHT. MOVE. AND SECOND TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE INDICATE BY RAISING YOUR HAND. IT'S NOW CLOSED. NOW I CAN ENTERTAIN A MOTION. DARN. I WISH I COULD DO BOTH. I MOVE TO REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING SECOND. A AND YOU REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AND TAKE AN ACTION. OH, APPROVE THE POSTPONEMENT AND, AND ASK FOR POSTPONEMENT TO OUR NEXT MEETING WITH, UH, THE POSTPONEMENT WITH CONSIDERATION TO TIME EXTENSION. BUT YOU'LL, YOU'RE SPECIFICALLY ASKING A POSTPONEMENT TO OUR NEXT MEETING AND THE RECOMMENDATION THAT THERE BE A REFERRAL TO THE A RC IN BETWEEN, IF I UNDERSTAND THAT. SO AMENDED. THAT'S WHAT WAS ASKED FOR. OKAY. SO THAT'S YOUR MOTION. SECOND. AND THAT'S BEEN SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER RICE. OKAY. ANY DISCUSSION? I WOULD LIKE TO CLARIFY IS THE INTENT OF THE MOTION TO PAUSE THE CLOCK FOR 30 DAYS? BECAUSE THAT'S CORRECT. WE'RE ESSENTIALLY EXTENDING IT. ONE MORE MEETING. WELL, ACTUALLY YOU'VE GOT, WE'VE GOT TILL THE FEBRUARY MEETING AND THEN THE MARCH 23RD BEFORE IT FULLY TIMES OUT. SO BY POSTPONING IT, WE DON'T CHANGE THE CLOCK, BUT WE'RE STILL WORKING WELL WITHIN THE TIME PARAMETERS. BUT WE COULD PAUSE THE CLOCK. WE COULD PAUSE THE CLOCK IS THE POINT. ARE WE ABLE TO PAUSE THE CLOCK? THE APPLICANT MUST AGREE TO THE POSTPONEMENT ON THE RECORD, UH, IN ORDER FOR THE CLOCK TO STOP. SO THE APPLICANT IS THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN STOP THE CLOCK ON OUR TIMELINE. AND THAT WAS THE INTENT OF MY QUESTION WITH THE APPLICANT WHEN I ASKED. YEAH, I THOUGHT SHE DID. OKAY, THEN. LET'S GET THAT CLARIFICATION. SO WE HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU. ARE YOU YES. AS THE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE OWNER, THE APPLICANT AGREEING TO THE POSTPONEMENT AND THEREBY INITIATING OR, OR ALLOWING FOR AN EXTENSION OF WHAT WOULD OTHERWISE BE A TIME CLOCK ON THIS ITEM? SURE. CAN I GET CLARIFICATION ON THE TIME CLOCK? EXCUSE ME. SORRY. I'M DEALING WITH A LOT OF ALLERGIES RIGHT NOW. YEAH, YEAH. SO CURRENTLY THE, UM, REVIEW PERIOD FOR THIS APPLICATION IS 75 DAYS FROM THE STATE, THE FIRST HEARING. UM, AND IF WE WERE, IF THE COMMISSION WERE TO POSTPONE IT, IT WOULD, UM, NOT TOLL THE CLOCK. SO THE 75 DAYS WOULD BE UP ON MARCH 23RD, 2026. HOWEVER, IF THE APPLICANT AGREES TO A, UM, UH, UH, POSTPONEMENT THAT WOULD PUSH BACK THE DEADLINE FOR THE, UM, FOR THE COMMISSION TO MAKE A MOTION ON IT, A FINAL MOTION ON IT ON TWO 30 DAYS AFTER. IT'D BE BASICALLY A POSTPONEMENT AND EXTENSION IS WHAT WE'RE SAYING? CORRECT? YES. OKAY. ARE WE ABLE TO LIKE SEE HOW THE NEXT MEETING GOES AND THEN DECIDE THEN? I GUESS LIKE NOW, IF EX IF, IF WE DO A POSTPONEMENT, AN EXTENSION, IT HAPPENS. NOW, NOW THAT SAID, WE DON'T HAVE TO TAKE ALL THAT TIME IF EVERYBODY'S AGREED AND WE COME UP WITH A RESOLUTION. RIGHT. WE, WE CAN, WE CAN MAKE AN ACTION AT ANY POINT, BUT, UH, WE WOULD NOT BE REQUIRED IN IF, IF THIS EXTENSION GOES, THEN IT WOULD GO FROM THE MARCH DATE INTO AN APRIL DATE. YEAH, FOR NOW I WOULD, UH, DECLINE THE EXTENSION AND JUST MOVE WITH THE POSTPONEMENT. OKAY. SO THE MOTION, WAS THAT CONTINGENT UPON THE, UH, APPLICANT'S AGREEMENT OF AN EXTENSION OR ARE WE JUST GOING YEAH, THAT'S WHY I ASKED THE QUESTION. OKAY. AND SO LIKE WITH SOME OF THESE, WE DON'T KNOW HOW IT'S GONNA PLAY OUT AND I WAS ASKING STAFF TODAY PRIOR TO STARTING THE MEETING, THE PROCESS, AND YOU KNOW, HOW THAT MIGHT IMPACT US IN CERTAIN CASES WHERE WE DO MOVE FOR POSTPONEMENT TO WORK OUT DETAILS WITH THE A RC OR OTHER. AND SO I SAW THE OPPORTUNITY TO TEST THE PROCESS. THANK YOU. ASK THE QUESTION OF THE APPLICANT. THE APPLICANT HAS SINCE PROVIDED CLARIFICATION. I'LL STRIKE THE, UH, TIME EXTENSION FOR MY MOTION, BUT YOUR, YOUR MOTION TO POSTPONE TO THE NEXT, UH, MEETING IS CON CONTINUING IS CORRECT. YOU'RE STILL HAVE THE MOTION. ALRIGHT. DO WE STILL HAVE A SECOND? I THINK SO. I MEAN, JUST TO, JUST TO CLARIFY BASICALLY YOUR MOTIONING TO APPROVE THE STATUS, MR. MICROPHONE. OH, THANKS. UM, BASICALLY JUST TO UNDERSTAND THIS CORRECTLY, YOU'RE AT THIS POINT WITH THAT CLARIFICATION, THE MOTION IS JUST TO, UH, APPROVE THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION, NOT [01:10:01] SPECIFICALLY. THE APPLICANT REQUESTED THE POSTPONEMENT TO WORK OUT THE DETAILS WITH THE A RC. MY MOTION WAS TO ACCEPT THE POST MOVEMENT, MAKE THAT RECOMMENDATION, UM, AND THERE WAS ANOTHER PART TO THAT. WELL, THEN, THEN THE WHOLE QUESTION OF THE EXTENSION THEN DID COME UP. BUT ESSENTIALLY WITHOUT THAT, UH, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, IT IS VERY, VERY MUCH WHAT THE STAFF WAS TELLING US WAS THEIR RECOMMENDATION, WHICH IS THAT THE POSTPONEMENT TAKES PLACE. WE STILL HAVE THE TIME THROUGH THE MARCH MEETING. CORRECT. AND WE ARE ENCOURAGING THE PARTIES TO WORK, UH, TOGETHER AND THE A RC PRESENTATION IN PARTICULAR. AND I THINK THAT'S, IF THAT'S THE GIST OF WHAT YOUR MOTION IS, THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING AS WELL. LET'S RESTATE THE MOTION, UH, FOR THE RECORD PLEASE, JUST TO MAKE IT CLEAR IN OUR MINUTES. OKAY. CAN YOU RESTATE, CAN I GET A COMMENT BEFORE YOU DO THAT? SURE. COMMISSIONER ACTON. SO I WANNA MAKE THIS CLEAR. SO WHETHER WE RECOMMEND A POSTPONEMENT OR THE APPLICANT RECOMMENDS POSTPONEMENT, IT HAS NO BEARING ON THE, THE RUNNING OF THE CLOCK. IT DOES, IT DOES, IT DOES THE A SO SHE'S PROPOSING THIS POSTPONEMENT, DIDN'T SHE? PLEASE? WHY DID, CAN YOU JUST STAY IT FROM THE BEGINNING? THERE'S TWO I THOUGHT SHE WRECKED. OKAY. JUST SAY VERY CLEARLY. LET'S, LET'S CLARIFY. SO THE APPLICANT MAY REQUEST A POSTPONEMENT, AND WHEN THE APPLICANT REQUESTS A POSTPONEMENT IN WRITING OR ON THE RECORD, UH, INITIATING THAT REQUEST, THEY ARE THE ONE WHO CAN SAY, OKAY, I NEED TIME. THE APPLICANT HAS AS MUCH TIME AS THEY NEED THE COMMISSION, THE NEIGHBORHOOD, ANY OTHER REQUESTER OF A POSTPONEMENT STAFF, UM, IS WORKING WITHIN THAT 75 DAY TIMELINE. SO ANYBODY ELSE WHO REQUESTS THE POSTPONEMENT DOES NOT GET TO STOP THE CLOCK. SO WHAT TRIGGERS THE CLOCK BACK RUNNING WHEN THE APPLICANT REQUESTS A POSTPONEMENT? SO THE APPLICANT CAN REQUEST A MONTH TO MONTH POSTPONEMENT. OKAY. WHICH MEANS THAT EACH MONTH, YOU KNOW, WE, WE START OVER AND WE CALCULATE FROM, SO A MINIMUM OF 30 DAYS ESSENTIALLY IS WHAT THEY'RE WELL FROM ONE, FROM ONE MEETING TO THE NEXT, RIGHT? RIGHT. OKAY. WOULD EXPLAIN. THANK YOU. SO IN OUR CODE. UM, AND JUST TO EXPAND UPON THAT A LITTLE BIT, UM, THE CODE STATES THAT, UM, THE APPLICANT AGREED OR INITIATED, UM, POSTPONEMENT CAN STOP THE CLOCK, BUT THE APPLICANT NEEDS TO AGREE TO THAT STOPPING OF THE CLOCK IN WRITING, UM, IN A NOTICE OR, OR ON THE RECORD, THE COMMISSIONER OR ON THE RECORD? YES. OKAY. DOES THAT HELP? VERY MUCH. OKAY. AND, AND APPRECIATE, UH, ANYBODY LISTENING AT HOME, UH, THIS IS DETERMINED BASICALLY BECAUSE OF STATE LAW THAT DETERMINES THERE IS A TIME PERIOD WITH WHICH A BOARD LIKE OURS CAN TAKE ACTION. AND THERE, YOU KNOW, OVER TIME THESE QUESTIONS COME UP AND THESE ARE THE CLARIFICATIONS WE GET. SO, UH, APPRECIATE EVERYBODY BEING ABLE TO WORK WITHIN THOSE PARAMETERS. YEAH. CHAIR, I, I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL THIS, BUT I DID IT DELIBERATELY TO GENERATE THIS QUESTION AND FLUSH OUT ALL THE DETAILS BETWEEN US STAFF. AND SO NO WORRIES AT ALL. MY APOLOGIES TO THE REST OF THE COMMISSIONERS, BUT WE DO NEED A MOTION STILL. COMMISSIONER LAROCHE? YEAH. AND HAVING REVIEWED ALL THE INFORMATION, MY MOTION IS TO, UH, RECOMMEND STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE POSTPONEMENT TO THE NEXT MEETING AND, AND THE REFERRAL TO THE A RC, WHICH IS ALL STATED IN THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION. AWESOME. AND SO I MOVE TO ACCEPT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION. COMMISSIONER RICE? SECOND. YOU STILL SECOND? ALRIGHT, SO COMMISSIONERS, WE HAVE A MOTION TO POSTPONE AND A SECOND, IS THERE FURTHER DISCUSSION? UM, UH, I, I WOULD LIKE TO MENTION, I'M GONNA SUPPORT THE POSTPONEMENT AND WOULD LIKE TO MENTION I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE THE APPLICANT'S PROCESS, KNOWING THAT THERE'S GONNA BE 75 DAYS AND WILLINGNESS TO, UH, START THIS PROCESS NOW TO ENGAGE OVER THAT PERIOD. AND, UM, WE HOPE TO SEE YOU NEXT WEDNESDAY AT THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE. UH, AND THE QUESTIONS THAT WE WANNA BE THINKING ABOUT, UH, WE HAD REALLY GOOD, UH, INPUT FROM TESTIMONY AND, AND THE DIOCESE IS, UM, IN ADDITION TO, YOU KNOW, NEEDING THE DETAIL OF THE TREATMENT OF ALL THE MATERIALS, A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT'S HISTORIC AND WHAT'S NOT HISTORIC, UH, IN PARTICULAR, I'M LOOKING AT THAT WE ARE COLON AID AND WHAT MAYBE CAN STAY AND WHAT CAN'T STAY, UH, TO BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT WHICH HISTORIC MATERIAL IS GONNA NEED TO BE DEMOLISHED FOR THE, FOR THE ADDITION. I, I THINK IN GENERAL IT'S VERY SENSITIVE THAT THAT REAR COLONATE IS THE MAIN THING I SEE THAT MIGHT NEED TO BE IN DISCUSSION. AND ALSO WHEN I SAY APPRECIATE YOU KEEPING THE, UH, THE REAR BUILDINGS, I KNOW THAT WAS KIND OF IN QUESTION IN TERMS OF CONTRIBUTING STATUS AND DATE, BUT THERE MAY BE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT, UH, THE FENESTRATION PATTERNS AND THE TREATMENT OF WHETHER THAT'S BRICK OR STUCCO. SO THANKS. OKAY. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? AND JUST TO CLARIFY, BY THE WAY, THE MOTION DOES ALSO REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING, WHICH WE'RE REQUIRED TO DO. SO, [01:15:01] UH, AND I, YOU, YOU HAD SAID THAT IN YOUR EARLIER MOTION, COMMISSIONER LAROCHE, SO I, I'M MAKING SURE FOR THE RECORD IT'S THERE AS WELL. ALRIGHT, ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE. I'LL CALL THE QUESTION. THOSE IN FAVOR OF THE POSTPONEMENT, PLEASE INDICATE BY RAISING YOUR HAND. AND THERE AGAIN, ALL HANDS ARE RAISED, SO IT IS UNANIMOUS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT MONTH. ALRIGHT, THAT BRINGS US UP TO ITEM [5. PR-2025-144142; C14H-2020-0069 – 2406 E. Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd. Rogers-Washington-Holy Cross Local Historic District ] NUMBER FIVE, WHICH IS THE, UH, 24 0 6 EAST MARTIN LUTHER KING BOULEVARD. UH, THIS IS A CONTRIBUTING BUILDING WITH DEMOLITION REQUEST FROM OUR PREVIOUS MEETING. THANK YOU CHAIR. UH, AS YOU SAID, THIS IS A, UH, PROPOSAL TO DEMOLISH THE CIRCA 1957 CONTRIBUTING BUILDING TO THE ROGERS, WASHINGTON HOLY CROSS LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT. THE PROPERTY IS A SINGLE STORY RANCH HOUSE WITH A CORNER INSET CARPORT. THERE'S A STONE CLAD SKIRT AROUND THE PERIMETER OF THE FRONT FACADE WITH THE REMAINDER OF THE WALLS CLAD WITH HORIZONTAL WOOD SIDING. THERE ARE TWO SETS OF PAIRED WINDOWS AT THE FRONT, BUT IS NOT CERTAIN IF THE WIND, IF THE UNITS ARE REPLACEMENTS. THE ROOF IS A SHALLOW PITCHED SIDE GABLE FORM. UM, THE ROGERS, WASHINGTON HOLY CROSS DESIGN STANDARDS APPLY TO THIS PROJECT. AND, UM, THE PROJECT DOES NOT CURRENTLY MEET THE STANDARDS, UM, SPECIFICALLY STANDARD NINE FOR DEMOLITION AND RELOCATION. UM, THEREFORE THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS TO POSTPONE THE APPLICATION TO THE FEBRUARY 4TH, 2026 MEETING. UH, AND AS A NOTE, UH, THE APPLICATION DOES TIME OUT ON, UH, FEBRUARY 16TH, 2016, MAKING THE FEBRUARY MEETING OF THE HLC, THE FINAL OPPORTUNITY TO ACT ON THIS, UH, APPLICATION. DUE TO THIS PROPERTY BEING LOCATED IN A LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT, THE HLC MAY APPROVE OR DENY THE, THIS APPLICATION, UM, BECAUSE IT IS IN A LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT, THIS, UM, STAFF RECOMMENDATION DOES NOT CARRY ANY, UM, INTENTION OF HISTORIC ZONING INDIVIDUALLY FOR THIS PROPERTY, UM, AS IT ALREADY HAS HD ZONING AS BEING PART OF A LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. UH, ANY QUESTIONS TO STAFF VICE CHAIR EVANS? YES. DO WE KNOW HOW LONG THIS HOUSE HAS BEEN VACANT? UM, I BELIEVE I CAN, I CAN GET MORE INFORMATION ON THAT. I COULD CHECK MY NOTES HERE REALLY QUICK, BUT I BELIEVE IT'S BEEN AT LEAST FIVE TO 10 YEARS. LET ME VERIFY THOUGH. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? IF, IF I MAY CLARIFY, UM, ANTICIPATING, UH, THE MOTION THAT OUR OPTIONS ARE TO APPROVE THE DEMOLITION, TO DENY THE DEMOLITION, AND IF WE DENY THE DEMOLITION, THEN ANY FURTHER ACTION WOULD REQUIRE A REAPPLICATION BY THE APPLICANT FOR A DEMOLITION IF THEY WANTED TO CHANGE THAT TO A PARTIAL. THAT'S CORRECT. AND THEN THIRD IS POSTPONEMENT? YES, THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. FOR THIS MEETING? YES. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? ALRIGHT. UM, AT THIS POINT, WE, UH, CAN HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT. GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS DMITRI DUBROSKI. UM, I'M HERE AS THE APPLICANT. UM, YEAH, SO WE'RE PROPOSING TO DEMOLISH THE STRUCTURE. UM, IT IS IN EXTREMELY POOR SHAPE. UM, LIKE YOU GUYS MENTIONED, IT HAS BEEN ABANDONED FOR QUITE SOME TIME. UM, WE HAVE LOOKED AT QUITE A FEW DIFFERENT OPTIONS TO TRY TO RESTORE A PORTION OF IT, UM, OR, YOU KNOW, THE STRUCTURE, FULL STRUCTURE TO RESTORE IT. BUT IT, IT IS JUST NOT ECONOMICALLY FEASIBLE, ESPECIALLY AT THIS TIME. UM, AND THE SITE ITSELF IS, IS VERY NOT, IT IS NOT EASY TO WORK ON, UH, FROM A DEVELOPMENT PERSPECTIVE. AND SO WE REALLY KIND OF HIT THE WALL WITH WHAT OPTIONS WE HAVE. UM, AND SO AT THIS TIME, THIS IS KIND OF WHAT WE STILL HAVE ON THE TABLE, UM, TO FULLY DEMOLISH THE STRUCTURE. UM, YEAH. ANY QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONERS? CAN YOU CLARIFY WHAT YOU MEAN BY THE SITE NOT BEING EASY TO WORK ON? YEAH, SO AGAIN, FROM A DEVELOPMENT PERSPECTIVE, THERE ARE A LOT OF, UM, EASEMENTS THAT RUN THROUGH IT. THERE ARE POWER LINES THAT RUN THROUGH IT. UM, ACTUALLY THE, YOU KNOW, THE POWER LINES RUN DIRECTLY THROUGH IT. AND SO THE EXISTING STRUCTURE IS UH, I BELIEVE, YOU KNOW, THREE OR FIVE FEET FROM IT, UH, WHICH, UH, VIOLATE THE, UM, THE LOCAL POWER COMPANY'S REQUIREMENTS. AND SO WE HAVE TO STAY WITHIN 15 FEET OF THEM, UM, WITH THE NEW STRUCTURE, RIGHT? AND SO THAT DRAMATICALLY REDUCES THE AMOUNT OF, UM, SQUARE FOOTAGE WE COULD PUT ON THERE. UM, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A CONTRIBUTING OR THERE'S A TREE ON THERE, THE MC ACKNOWLEDGE TREE UP FRONT. UM, THERE ARE A LOT OF SETBACKS AND THERE ARE A LOT OF DEED RESTRICTIONS, UM, THAT RUN THERE THAT, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY CUT THE SITE IN MORE THAN HALF. I WANNA SAY IT'S PROBABLY ABOUT 35% OF IT IS, IS ACTUALLY FEASIBLE TO, TO BE BUILT ON. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR [01:20:01] COMMENTS? YES, I HAVE A QUESTION. UM, SO ACCORDING TO THIS INSPECTION REPORT, IT IDENTIFIES YOU, I ASSUME YOU ARE THE INSPECTOR. SORRY, I CAN'T HEAR YOU. YOU ARE THE INSPECTOR, I GUESS PER THIS INSPECTION REPORT THAT WE HAVE. I'M NOT THE INSPECTOR, NO. OH, OKAY. UH, WELL, I STILL ASK, UH, WHAT ARE THE ISSUES HERE THAT, UH, YOU SEE THAT ARE CRITICAL THAT KEEP YOU FROM, UH, SAY JUST NOT DEMOLISHING THIS BUILDING? WELL, WHAT ARE THE STRUCTURAL ISSUES? WHAT ARE THE FOUNDATIONAL ISSUES, UH, BUILDING ENVELOPE AND SO ON? ALL OF THE ABOVE. UM, SO I, I, YOU KNOW, WE SPOKE TO QUITE A FEW GENERAL CONTRACTORS, UH, WHO GAVE US BITS ESSENTIALLY, UM, ON HOW TO REMODEL THIS, POTENTIALLY REMODEL THIS, YOU KNOW, AND IT, IT, THEY'RE ALL BASICALLY HIGHER THAN JUST TO DEMOLISH THE BUILDING AND, AND BUILD A NEW ONE, RIGHT? AND UNFORTUNATELY, THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE EXISTING BUILDING IS JUST SO SMALL, UM, THAT THE NUMBERS JUST DON'T ADD UP. UM, AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE NOT DOING THIS PRO BONO AS MUCH AS WE WOULD WANT. UM, WE HAVE TO MAKE IT WORK FOR THE WHOLE SITE. UM, AND SO THIS KIND OF LEFT A LESS LEFT US WITH NO CHOICE. ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS OF THE APPLICANT? UH, BEFORE WE GET INTO ANY OTHER SPEAKERS, UH, YOU DID PRESENT THIS AND WE DID POSTPONE THIS AT OUR PREVIOUS MEETING, AND I WANNA REINFORCE, THE APPLICATION THAT YOU ARE SUBMITTING FOR ISN'T A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. SO IF WE DON'T BELIEVE, AS YOU JUST HEARD FROM STAFF, THAT IT IS APPROPRIATE FOR THIS HISTORIC SUPPORTED BUILDING TO BE TORN DOWN, THEN WE WON'T ISSUE OR PERMIT THAT, THAT THAT DEMO PERMIT BE ISSUED. SO DO YOU HAVE ANY NEW INFORMATION THAT WOULD PROVE TO US AS PRESERVATIONISTS THAT THE MOST APPROPRIATE COURSE OF ACTION FOR THIS CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE IS TO TEAR IT DOWN? IF THERE'S NOTHING YOU HAVE, OTHER THAN WHAT YOU'VE SHOWN US UP TO THIS POINT, I THINK YOU HEARD FROM US THAT WE DON'T BELIEVE YOU HAVE GIVEN US SUFFICIENT INFORMATION TO TELL US THAT THAT'S THE MOST APPROPRIATE ACTION TO TAKE. YEAH, IT'S A LITTLE SURPRISING TO ME TO HEAR THIS, TO BE FRANK WITH YOU BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I MOVED TO AUSTIN A YEAR AGO WITH MY FAMILY AND WE ACTUALLY CONSIDERED BUYING A HOUSE ON THE STREET RIGHT ACROSS FROM THIS, UM, HOUSE AND, YOU KNOW, WHICH IS HOW I KIND OF GOT INVOLVED IN THIS PROJECT, RIGHT? AND SO THE REASON WHY WE DID NOT BUY IS BECAUSE OF THIS HOUSE. IT'S ABANDONED. I MEAN, THERE ARE SQUATTERS LIVING THERE, AND QUITE FRANKLY, I THINK IT DOES PRESENT A PUBLIC, UM, CONCERN. AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK HE'LL PROBABLY STAY ABANDONED FOR, FOR QUITE A WHILE. UM, HE'S BEEN IN THE MARKET FOREVER. IT'S BEEN ABANDONED FOREVER. AND SO I, I UNDERSTAND THE PRESERVATION, UM, YOU KNOW, AND, AND REQUIREMENTS AND CONCERNS, BUT RIGHT NOW, TO ME IT'S A PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUE. UM, AND, YOU KNOW, I'D LIKE FOR YOU GUYS TO KIND OF LOOK AT IT FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE AS WELL. OKAY. ALRIGHT. ANY OTHER COMMENTS? YEAH. UH, COULD YOU CLARIFY THAT THE PROPERTY INCLUDES THE ENTIRE LOT, INCLUDING WHAT APPEARS TO BE AN OPEN LOT ON THE RIGHT SIDE, ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE POWER LINES, CORRECT? YEP. AND SO WE LOOKED AT, YOU KNOW, BUILDING SOMETHING DIRECTLY ON THAT LOT OR ON THAT LOT ITSELF. BUT AGAIN, FROM ECONOMIC PERSPECTIVE, YOU KNOW, WITH, WITH THIS STRUCTURE BEING RIGHT NEXT DOOR, UH, THE ODDS OF SELLING THE NEW STRUCTURES ARE SLIM TO NONE. YOU KNOW, NO ONE'S GONNA BUY A HOUSE NEXT TO AN EXISTING, UH, VACANT HOUSE THAT HAS NO POWER, NO WATER. ALL UTILS HAVE TURNED OFF. AND AGAIN, FRANKLY, YOU HAVE SQUATTERS LIVING IN THERE. UH, I MEAN, I'VE SEEN THEM FIRSTHAND. AND SO, AND DID YOU LOOK AT RESTORING THE ORIGINAL HOUSE BUILDING A SECOND, POSSIBLY THIRD MICRO UNIT, UM, TO PROVIDE POSSIBLY THREE SALEABLE HOMES ON THE PROPERTY, ALBEIT SMALL? YES. UM, AGAIN, YES, ABSOLUTELY WE DID, WE LOOKED AT HOME ONE AND HOME TWO INITIATIVES. UM, THERE ARE JUST SO MUCH HAIR IN THE SITE, UM, FROM, AGAIN, FROM ALL THOSE THINGS I MENTIONED FROM EASEMENTS AND, AND DE RESTRICTIONS AND SO ON AND SO FORTH. UM, IT'S, WE JUST CAN'T MAKE IT WORK FROM A, AGAIN, FROM A FINANCIAL PERSPECTIVE. WHAT QUESTION, WHAT CAN YOU MAKE WORK? WHAT THERE DID WE, UM, WAS PLANS PRESENTED, LIKE IF WE DO APPROVE THE DEMO OR PLANS PRESENTED? YEAH, SO, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE CLEAR GUIDELINES ON WHAT WE CAN DO, RIGHT? SO WE STILL HAVE TO GET BACK IN FRONT OF YOU GUYS WITH, WITH, UM, WITH A PLAN ONCE WE APPLY FOR A BUILDING PERMIT AND ACTUALLY GO THROUGH THE PROCESS TO MAKE SURE WE'RE ADHERING TO ALL THE DESIGN GUIDELINES THAT, THAT, THAT ARE IN PLACE. UM, AND SO RIGHT NOW THIS, THIS IS JUST FOR THE DEMOLITION OF THE BUILDING. AND SO AT A LATER STAGE, YOU KNOW, IT, IT DOES HAVE RESIDENTIAL ZONING, SO IT'S NOT LIKE WE CAN GO THERE AND, AND, AND DO ANYTHING ELSE BUT RESIDENTIAL. UH, WE ARE, WELL, AND, AND JUST TO CLARIFY IT IS, IS STILL IN A HISTORIC LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT, CORRECT. SO NO [01:25:01] NEW PLANS WOULD BE, UH, ABLE TO PROCEED WITHOUT OUR APPROVAL AS WELL, E EXACTLY RIGHT. BUT EVEN, EVEN AFTER THE DEMOLITION, IN ORDER FOR US TO GET A BUILDING PERMIT, YOU STILL HAVE TO APPROVE IT. THIS, THE, THIS COMMISSION HAS TO APPROVE IT. AND SO WE'LL STILL GET BACK IN FRONT OF YOU GUYS TO MAKE SURE THAT WHATEVER WE'RE BUILDING IT, IT STILL MAINTAINS, YOU KNOW, AND, AND, AND ADHERES TO ALL THE REQUIREMENTS, UH, SET FORTH BY, BY THE HISTORICAL DISTRICT. THAT'S A QUESTION I, I GUESS FOR UM, STAFF OR, UM, MAYBE FOR ONE OF THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS, BUT IS THIS A CASE WHERE WHEN WE APPROVE THE DEMOLITION PERMIT, UM, THAT ACTUAL, THAT DOESN'T, THAT ISN'T ACTED ON UNTIL WE APPROVE THE BUILDING PERMITS. THE TWO ARE, ARE CONNECTED IN OTHER REGISTERED DISTRICTS, THEY ARE FOR THE LOCAL AS WELL. IS THAT CORRECT? YEAH. SO EVEN IF, IF WE APPROVE A DEMOLITION PERMIT, HE CAN'T ACT ON IT WITHOUT THE REVIEW OF THE PLANS AND APPROVAL OF THOSE FIRST. THAT SAID, IF HE HAS AN APPROVED DEMOLITION PLAN, HE HAS THE RIGHT TO DEMOLISH THE BUILDING. YEAH. HELPFUL IN CLARIFICATION OR, OR SHOULD WE SAY, WE'VE SAID IT'S APPROPRIATE, HISTORICALLY APPROPRIATE TO DEMOLISH THAT BUILDING. OKAY. ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS OF THE APPLICANT? RIGHT. WE THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ARE THERE OTHER SPEAKERS? YES, WE HAVE A FEW SPEAKERS. UM, OUR FIRST IN FAVOR SPEAKER IS JANET BURT. HI, I AM JANET BURT. I AM THE REAL ESTATE AGENT THAT REPRESENTS THE FAMILY FOR THE ARMSTRONG. HER NAME IS, UH, THE ESTATE OF FLOORING OR FLORENCE ARMSTRONG IS ON THE, IS OF THE PROPERTY DEED. UM, THE FIRST THING I I WANTED TO STATE IS A LITTLE BIT OF THE HISTORY OF WHAT'S BEEN GOING ON, SO YOU'LL AT LEAST HAVE AN IDEA. WE DID COMPS AND WE STARTED THIS PROPERTY BACK IN APRIL OF THIS PAST YEAR. AND WE STARTED OUT AS A 0.28 ACRE, WHICH IS TWO LOTS. HOLY CROSS ONE AND TWO. AND WE STARTED OUT AT $525,000 TO TRY TO SELL THE PROPERTY. WE GOT A, UM, OFFER FOR $425,000 AND WE TRIED TO TAKE THAT OFFER IN BACK IN, UH, JUNE OR JULY IS WHEN WE GOT THE OFFER. IN THE MIDST OF ALL THAT, WE FOUND OUT ABOUT THE EASEMENTS, THE MAGNOLIA TREE, WHICH ISN'T, YOU KNOW, IT'S GONNA BE SAVED FROM WHAT I'M UNDERSTANDING. IT NEEDS TO BE SAVED. AND, UM, WE FOUND OUT ABOUT THE HISTORICAL DISTRICT AND WHEN WE FOUND OUT ABOUT THE HISTORICAL DISTRICT, THEY BACKED OUT, THE INVESTORS DID, AND THEN TURNED AROUND AND OFFERED US $300,000. AND SO I JUST NEEDED YOU TO HAVE AN IDEA OF WHAT WAS GOING ON WITH THAT PART. TO LET YOU KNOW THE DEVALUE OF IT, THE PROPERTY ITSELF IS A TEAR DOWN. IT IS COMPLETE. YOU CAN'T WALK IN IT SAFELY. THE FLOORS HAVE FALLEN IN THE CEILING HAS FALLING IN, IT'S BEEN BROKEN INTO MULTIPLE TIMES. YOU CAN'T EVEN LOCK IT. THEY GO THROUGH THE WINDOW, THEY GO WHATEVER THEY CAN, THERE'S TWO SHEDS BACK THERE. THEY'RE DOING THE SAME EXACT THING. THEY'RE TRYING TO BREAK IN AS BEST AS THEY CAN TO TRY TO GET INTO SOMEWHERE SO THEY CAN SLEEP, SMOKE, DO WHATEVER THEY NEED TO AS SQUATTERS. AND SO THE PLACE IS A, IT'S A EYESORE FOR THAT BEAUTIFUL MLK ROAD. I MEAN, IT'S JUST, YOU GOT THE, THE SCHOOLS RIGHT DOWN THE ROAD. IT'S, I MEAN, IT IS GOT BEAUTIFUL PROPERTIES EVEN BEHIND IT. BUT THAT PIECE RIGHT THERE, THAT HOME IS ABSOLUTE, UH, A, A DANGER ZONE. AND I'M SURPRISED IT REALLY HASN'T BEEN, UH, IN, IN FIRE OF ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM. BUT THANK GOD IT HASN'T. AND SO WITH THAT, ALL THAT BEING SAID, YOU KNOW, THERE IS 12 HEIRS TO THIS PROPERTY AND, UM, THEY HAVE, UM, ALSO BACK TAXES. AND SO THERE'S A LOT OF BACK TAXES. THAT PROPERTY IS BEING TAXED TREMENDOUSLY EACH YEAR. AND SO THERE'S ABOUT, ABOUT RIGHT NOW, AT THIS POINT IN TIME, $56,000 IN TAXES THAT NEED TO BE PAID. THEY HAVE ALL BEEN SERVED AND WE HAVE NOW HIRED ATTORNEYS TO DO WHATEVER. BUT AGAIN, THAT'S ALL PERSONAL PROBLEM TO SOME EXTENT, BUT THAT HOUSE IS A TEAR DOWN AND IT'S NOT SAFE FOR THE COMMUNITY, FOR THE CITY OF AUSTIN OR ANYBODY ELSE AROUND. AND SO THAT'S WHY WE ARE HERE TO REPRESENT OUR CASE TO LET Y'ALL KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON. AND THEN I ALSO HAVE TWO BUYERS, OR TWO, THE TWO SELLERS WITH US, WITH ME TO BE ABLE TO SPEAK AS WELL. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, COMMISSIONERS. ANY QUESTIONS? YES. UM, WE HAVE A QUESTION. YEAH, I, I JUST WANT TO GET A LITTLE BIT MORE CONTEXT ON THE TIMELINES HERE. SO [01:30:01] THE CURRENT OWNERS, WHEN DID THEY PURCHASE THE PROPERTY? THE CURRENT OWNERS ARE THE, THE, THEY'RE HEIRS OF THE PROPERTY. THE, THE PROPERTY WAS BACK IN 1957 WHEN IT WAS BUILT. YEAH. AND THEN THE, THE MOTHER MARRIED, UH, THE MAN THAT OWNED THE PROPERTY. THEN SHE TURNED AROUND AND SHE INHERITED IT WHEN SHE PASSED. THEN HER FIVE CHILDREN GOT THAT PROPERTY. SO IT HAS NOT BEEN EVER SOLD. OKAY. SINCE IT'S BEEN BUILT SINCE 1957. YEAH. SO, UM, YOU, YOU MENTIONED JUST THAT THERE'S BEEN, YOU KNOW, ISSUES WITH, WITH SQUATTERS AND WITH, UM, TRESPASSING, ET CETERA, WHICH, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY A SAFETY CONCERN. BUT, UM, DO YOU KNOW OF ANY EFFORTS THAT HAVE BEEN TAKEN TO, UM, TO MINI TO MITIGATE THAT OR TO SECURE THE PROPERTY? A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE THE PROPERTY THAT OWN THIS PROPERTY, THE 12 HEIRS ARE OUTTA STATE THAT LIVE IN CALIFORNIA, LOUISIANA, OKLAHOMA, WHEREVER THEY MAY BE. THERE'S ONLY JUST A FEW HERE AND WITH THE, UH, THEY HAVE THEIR OWN HOME. AND SO THIS WAS THEIR MOTHER'S HOME. AND SO, UH, AGAIN, THEY INHERITED IT, BUT IT NEEDED TO, UM, THERE WAS NO, THERE WAS PEOPLE THERE THAT WERE LIVING THERE, BUT IN THE PAST FIVE TO 10 YEARS, THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANYONE. OKAY, THANK YOU. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OF THE REALTOR? ALRIGHT, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. IS NEXT SPEAKER OUR NEXT IN FAVOR? SPEAKER IS HARRY J DAIGLE JR. OH, WAIT, CAN'T HEAR YOU YET. I DON'T THINK THE MIC IS ON. I'M SORRY. MY NAME IS HARRY JAMES DAYLE JR. UH, MY MOTHER PASSED IN, UH, 2015 AND AFTER THAT WE HAD A, UH, NEPHEW THAT LIVED IN THE, ON THE PROPERTY FOR PROBABLY ABOUT TWO OR THREE MONTHS. THE HOUSE, MY MOTHER WAS A HOARDER. IT TOOK US FOUR WEEKS TO CLEAN THE PLACE OUT. IT WAS RAT INFESTED. THE ROOF IS ABOUT TO FALL, FALL IN AT THAT TIME. THE SEWAGE IS, CAN'T FIX IT, IT'S ALWAYS BACKED UP. UH, THE FOUNDATION IS CRACKED. ME AND MY YOUNGER BROTHER JUST, UH, PASSED THROUGH THERE BEFORE WE CAME HERE TO TONIGHT. AND THERE ARE PEOPLE IN THE HOUSE TOO SCARED TO GO INTO THE PLACE BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY HAVE. I'VE BEEN UP HERE FIVE TIMES AND HAVE FIXED THE, THE DOOR THAT THEY KICKED IN ON THE BACK. I DIDN'T, NOT FIXED IT, BUT I BLOCKED IT OFF. SO I HAVE BEEN TRYING AND, UH, AS MS. BURKE SAID, WE ARE BEHIND IN OUR TAXES AND THERE'S 12 OF US. A LOT OF US DON'T LIVE HERE IN TEXAS. AND IT IS A STRUGGLE. I LIVE IN LULING. I'M 66 YEARS OLD. I HAVE A PLACE THERE THAT I HAVE TO KEEP UP ON SOCIAL SECURITY AND I JUST CAN'T BE RUNNING UP HERE EVERY WEEK OR SO 'CAUSE I CAN'T AFFORD IT. UM, AND LIKE MS. BURKE SAID, WE HAD A BUYER AND ALL OF A SUDDEN WE FOUND OUT THAT IT WAS, UH, UNDER HISTORICAL LANDMARK AND THAT WE LOST THAT BUYER. AND, YOU KNOW, TAXES ARE CONTINUOUSLY GOING UP. HIRED A LAWYER TO STOP THE CITY FROM TAKING THE PROPERTY UNTIL WE CAN GET THIS PLACE SOLD SO WE CAN PAY THE TAXES. THAT'S PRETTY MUCH ALL I HAVE TO SAY. OKAY, MR. DEAGLE, THANK YOU. AND THANK YOU FOR COMING ALL THIS WAY TO, TO SPEAK TO US. ANY QUESTIONS FROM COMMISSIONERS? OKAY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. OH, I, I'M SORRY. I HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION. UM, I, MY UNDERSTANDING IS, UH, IT WAS PUT ON AS, ON THE DISTRICT IN 2020. AND AS I MENTIONED, MY MOTHER PASSED IN 2015. WHO PUT, OR WHO REQUESTED THAT IT WOULD BE PUT ON THE, UH, HISTORICAL, UH, DISTRICT? IT, IT IS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE WITHIN THE DISTRICT. AND SO ALL THE NEIGHBORS THAT INITIATED THAT WORKED WITH CITY STAFF NOTICES WERE SENT OUT. UH, HEARINGS WERE HAD, AND THAT'S HOW THE PROCESS WORKED. BUT IT WAS IDENTIFIED BY THE FOLKS WHO PUT THE DISTRICT TOGETHER, UH, BASED ON, ITS AT THE TIME, UH, IT'S HISTORY AND IT'S, IT'S ARCHITECTURE AND THE CONDITION [01:35:01] AT THAT TIME. OKAY. BUT NONE OF, NONE OF THE FAMILY KNEW THAT IT WAS ON A HISTORICAL LANDMARK OR DISTRICT, IS WHAT I WAS TRYING TO GET AT. THANK YOU. WE HAVE ANOTHER SPEAKER? YES. OUR NEXT IN FAVOR SPEAKER IS SAMUEL LEROY DAIGLE. YEAH, I GUESS I DON'T REALLY HAVE TOO MUCH MORE THAN WHAT, UH, MS. BURKE HAS SAID. AND MY BROTHER, UH, HARRY JAMES DAGEL HAS SAID, MY NAME IS SAMUEL LEROY DELE, UH, LIKE HE SAID, TAXES ARE MOUNTING. UH, WE'RE TRYING TO SELL THE PROPERTY SO THAT WE CAN PAY THOSE TAXES OFF AND MOVE, MOVE ON WITH OUR LIVES. UH, THE FAMILY IS SCATTERED THROUGHOUT THE, THE STATES. UH, THERE'S ONLY, I BELIEVE, JUST MAYBE THREE OF US HERE IN TEXAS, BUT OUT OF THE 12, EVERYONE ELSE IS CALIFORNIAN SPREAD OUT. SO WE'RE JUST WANTING TO, WE FOUND ANOTHER BUYER. HE WAS SPOKEN SPEAKING TO YOU A FEW MOMENTS AGO FIRST, SO, UH, HE AGREED TO, UH, PURCHASE THE PROPERTY IF WE CAN GET THE DEMOLITION APPROVED. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UM, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I DO HAVE A QUESTION. SO WITH THE TAXES BEING BEHIND AND THEY ASKED THE CITY TO PAUSE THE SALE, IF IT HAPPENS, THEN, YOU KNOW, IT GOES INTO FORECLOSURE. DO DOES THAT PROPERTY COME BACK BEFORE US? ONLY IF, UH, ANOTHER REQUEST IF, IF A DIFFERENT ENTITY WAS IN CONTROL AND HAD, UH, ANOTHER REQUEST, UH, THAT THAT WOULD THEN COME BACK FOR REVIEW. IF IT'S THE SAME REQUEST, THEN, UH, I GUESS I, THE PERMIT'S NOT SPECIFIC TO THE APPLICANT IF THERE'S A PERMIT FOR DEMOLITION, UH, AND THAT'S GRANTED THAT WOULD CONVEY WITH THE PROPERTY, IS THAT CORRECT? UM, I BELIEVE THEY COULD REAPPLY FOR DEMOLITION OR, OR IF NOT, THEY COULD REAPPLY. CAN, CAN YOU REPEAT THAT CHAIR? SO IF, IF, JUST HYPOTHETICALLY, I'M NOT SPEAKING FOR THE COMMISSION, BUT TO ANSWER, UM, COMMISSIONER PLEASANT WRIGHT'S QUESTION, MY UNDERSTANDING IS IF THERE WERE TO BE GRANTED THE APPROVAL OF DEMOLITION AND THEN SOME ENTITY, THE THE SELLERS, UH, FOUND SOME OTHER WAY TO PROCEED, UH, EVEN THOUGH THEY WEREN'T THE ORIGINAL APPLICANT, WHOEVER THAT WAS, THEY WOULD STILL HAVE THAT APPROVAL OF THE DEMOLITION BECAUSE IT CONVEYS WITH A PROPERTY. SO YES, CHAIR, UM, I, I THINK, LET ME REPEAT IT BACK TO YOU. WHAT YOU'RE ASKING IS ONCE THE COMMISSION MAKES AN UP OR DOWN VOTE, UM, DOES ANY SUBSEQUENT APPLICATION HAVE TO COME BACK TO THE COMMISSION? RIGHT? SO IF, IF, IF OWNERSHIP CHANGED, IT WOULD STILL CONVEY WITH THE PROPERTY WOULD MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE, IT WOULD STILL BE ON THE RECORD THAT YOU ALLOW DEMOLITION, UM, AND IT WOULD NOT RETURN TO THE COMMISSION. UM, BECAUSE YOU'VE ALREADY MADE THAT DECISION NOT FOR THAT PARTICULAR ITEM. RIGHT? NOT FOR THAT PARTICULAR ITEM. UM, AND NOT FOR ANYTHING RECENT. UM, THERE IS A CASE TO BE MADE FOR EXTREMELY OLD APPROVALS, UM, TO BE SENT BACK TO THIS COMMISSION, BUT, UM, FOR IN MOST CASES IT'S, IT'S NOT GOING TO COME BACK. OKAY. DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, COMMISSIONER? OKAY. THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. YEAH. AND THANK YOU FOR REQUESTING THAT CONFESS. THAT'S A CLARIFICATION. WE ALL NEED . YES. ALRIGHT. DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER SPEAKERS THEN? YES. OUR IN OPPOSITION SPEAKERS, UH, THE FIRST OF THEM IS BEING MS I RAMOS. HEY Y'ALL, HOW ARE YOU DOING TONIGHT? UM, MY NAME IS MESSIAH RAMOS AND I HAVE THE HONOR OF BEING THE PRESIDENT OF THE HISTORIC ROGERS, WASHINGTON HOLY CROSS NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. AND I'M GONNA GO AHEAD AND READ A LETTER THAT WE HAVE HERE. UM, I'M ON, I'M HERE ON THE BEHALF OF THE HISTORIC ROGERS WASHINGTON NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. WE'RE ASKING YOU THE COMMISSIONERS TO OPPOSE THE DEMOLITION AT 24 0 6 EAST MK. THIS HOUSE IS A CONTRIBUTING HOME IN OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT AND SHOULD REMAIN AS SUCH. AS SOME MAY KNOW, IT TOOK OUR NEIGHBORHOOD FIVE YEARS OF ORGANIZING OUR NEIGHBORS TO EVENTUALLY RECEIVE THE HISTORIC DESIGNATION OF OUR DISTRICT FROM KNOCKING ON DOORS TO ORGANIZING MEETINGS, REQUESTING SUPPORT FROM LOCAL NEIGHBORHOOD BUSINESSES AND HAVING HOUSE VISITS WITH NEIGHBORS. OUR NEIGHBORHOOD PUT IN THE WORK TO GET ALL CONTRIBUTING HOUSES TO SIGN ON FOR DESIGNATION. AND WE GOT THIS DONE BECAUSE EVERY CONTRIBUTING HOUSE HAS HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE [01:40:01] TO OUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND TELLS A STORY OF OUR COMMUNITY. DURING THAT PROCESS, WE CREATED DESIGN STANDARDS THAT KEEP THE HISTORICAL SIGN SIGNIFICANCE ALIVE IN OUR COMMUNITY AS WELL. WE WORK WITH ARCHITECTS, HISTORIANS, ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS, AND OUR FELLOW NEIGHBORS TO ALLOW GROWTH WITHIN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, WHILE ALSO PAYING RESPECT TO THE HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT ARCHITECTURE THAT WAS PUT INTO OUR HOMES. THESE DESIGN STANDARDS PAY RESPECT TO THE BLACK ARCHITECTS THAT BUILD OUR NEIGHBORHOODS AS WELL AS OTHER PARTS OF EAST AUSTIN. THE DEMOLITION CASE IS ALSO IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT COULD POTENTIALLY SET A PRECEDENT THAT WOULD ERODE THE PROTECTIONS AND SIGNIFICANCE OF CONTRIBUTING HOUSES. THE REASONS WHY HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT COMMUNITIES GO FOR DESIGNATION IN THE FIRST PLACE. THE BAR HAS ALREADY SET HIGH TO BECOME A HISTORIC DISTRICT. AND THIS DEMO COULD GIVE WAY TO FOREGOING ALL THE EFFORTS THAT OUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND OTHERS ALREADY PUT INTO GETTING NEIGHBORHOODS DESIGNATED HISTORIC TO PROTECT THEIR HISTORIES. THE PURCHASE FOR THIS PROPERTY WAS COMPLETED IN NOVEMBER AND WE HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING SUFFICIENT THAT WOULD INFER A A DEMOLITION. WE HAVE NEIGHBORS THAT HAVE LIVED HERE FOR GENERATIONS AND NONE OF US FEEL THREATENED BY THIS HOUSE. I WALK BY MY DOG BY IT EVERY DAY AND MY NEIGHBORS WALK THEIR KIDS BY IT ALL THE TIME. THE APPLICANT KNEW THIS WAS HISTORIC, A HISTORIC HOME WHEN THEY PURCHASED IT, AS THE HOUSE IS DESIGNATED IN CITY CODE AS HD. SO COMMISSIONERS, WE ASK THAT YOU STAND WITH US AND OUR NEIGHBORS IN OPPOSITION OF THE DEMOLITION OF THIS HOUSE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. UH, ANY COMMENTS, COMMISSIONERS, QUESTIONS? I CAN THANK YOU. OH, GO AHEAD. YEAH, SO I GUESS IN THAT LETTER IT SOUNDS LIKE A SALE WAS MADE, BUT I MEAN, IN PREVIOUS, YOU KNOW, I GUESS TESTIMONY SOUNDS LIKE THEY WEREN'T AWARE OR I GUESS THERE WASN'T A SALE. WELL, WE CAN ASK FOR CLARIFICATION. IS THE APPLICANT THE CURRENT OWNER STAFF NOW? NO. NOT EVEN ACCEPT. OKAY. SO WE'RE HEARING FROM THE AUDIENCE, UH, FROM THE REALTOR THAT THE SALE HAS NOT BEEN COMPLETED GOTCHA. AS A, AS A CURRENT MOMENT. IS THAT, THAT OUR UNDERSTANDING? SO, OKAY. WELL, SO, UH, AGAIN, AS IT'S RELEVANT FOR THE RECORD, SO YEAH, NO, THE PAST FIVE YEARS TO BE ABLE TO GET A NOTICE TO SAY THAT. ALRIGHT. THAT, THAT, THAT WE WE'RE NOT TAKING ANY MORE TESTIMONY. WE HAD A QUESTION. THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP. UH, COMMISSIONER, DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? UH, IT DOES, YEAH. OKAY. ALRIGHT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONERS? ALRIGHT, WE THANK YOU. UH, NEXT SPEAKER. OUR NEXT SPEAKER IN OPPOSITION IS LINDSAY DARRINGTON. OKAY, GOOD EVENING. I'M LINDSAY DARRINGTON. I'M EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF PRESERVATION AUSTIN. AND EARLIER TODAY WE SUBMITTED A LETTER SUPPORTING STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION TO POSTPONE THIS CASE. THE NEIGHBORS IN ROGERS, WASHINGTON HOLY CROSS WORKED FOR YEARS TO ESTABLISH THIS LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT TO HONOR THEIR HERITAGE AND THEIR PARENTS' HERITAGE. AND WHAT'S REMARKABLE IS THAT SO MANY OF THESE ADVOCATES GREW UP IN THESE HOMES. THEY'VE BEEN THERE FOR DECADES. AND PRESERVATION AUSTIN, UM, WAS VERY SUPPORTIVE OF THAT EFFORT IN CELEBRATING THESE HISTORIES. AND I THINK THAT ALLOWING THIS DEMOLITION WOULD SET A TERRIBLE PRECEDENT FOR OUR LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICTS HERE IN AUSTIN. WE HAVE SO FEW TOOLS TO PRESERVE BUILDINGS AND THE POWER, UM, TO HAVE DESIGN STANDARDS AND DEMOLITION REGULATIONS AND ESTABLISH BASED ON VERY SOLID CRITERIA WHAT IS AND IS NOT CONTRIBUTING. UM, THAT'S ALL WE'VE GOT. REALLY, THAT'S THE BEST TOOL THAT WE DO HAVE. AND WE ONLY HAVE EIGHT LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICTS. AND I THINK, I KNOW THIS WOULD SET A BAD PRECEDENT FOR THIS NEIGHBORHOOD AND FOR OUR OTHER SEVEN DISTRICTS IN AUSTIN. I WOULD REALLY ENCOURAGE, UM, THE FAMILY AND THE POTENTIAL BUYER TO LOOK AT THE PRESERVATION BONUS AS A WAY TO ADD ADDITIONAL DENSITY TO THIS LOT OR THE TAX ABATEMENT FOR HISTORIC PROPERTIES WITHIN LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICTS. WE DO HAVE SOME OTHER WAYS TO INVEST IN THESE PROPERTIES AND TO SUPPORT PEOPLE LOOKING TO PRESERVE, UM, ACCORDING TO OUR CITY CODE. SO, UM, THAT'S HOW WE FEEL. THANK YOU GUYS FOR YOUR SERVICE. OKAY. THANK YOU. ANY COMMENTS, QUESTIONS, COMMISSIONERS? ACTUALLY, CAN I ASK A QUESTION JUST ABOUT THE PROCESS FOR THE LOCAL HISTORIC, HISTORIC DISTRICT, UH, AND CREATING THOSE? I I'M NOT REALLY, I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE MECHANICS AND THE NITTY GRITTY OF IT. AND MAYBE YOU CAN JUST SHED SOME LIGHT ON IT. UM, ALL PROPERTY OWNERS ARE NOTIFIED THAT A LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT IS BEING CREATED. CORRECT? THAT'S A BETTER QUESTION FOR CITY STAFF. I PRESERVATION AUSTIN? NO, IT'S, IT'S, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. WE DID HOST MEETINGS BETWEEN NEIGHBORS AND PROPERTY OWNERS WHO ARE REALLY UNCERTAIN OF LOCAL STORE DISTRICTS. SO I CAN SAY THE NEIGHBORS HAD LONG CONVERSATIONS WITH FOLKS IN THE CURRENT BOUNDARIES ABOUT WHAT THE STANDARDS SHOULD LOOK LIKE AND REALLY SOUGHT TO STRIKE COMPROMISE [01:45:01] AND TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE WAS ON BOARD SO THAT I CAN SPEAK TO. 'CAUSE WE HOSTED THOSE MEETINGS AND I WAS PRESENT FOR THEM. GOT IT. WELL THEN MAYBE MY QUESTION IS MORE FOR CITY STAFF, BUT, UH, SO EVERYONE'S NOTIFIED. THERE ARE CONVERSATIONS, BUT, UH, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, MAYBE A A A PROPERTY SLIPPED THROUGH THE CRACKS JUST IN, IN THE SITUATION THAT IT WAS VACANT AND FOLKS LIVED ALL OVER THE PLACE. DOES IT REQUIRE A RESPONSE FROM EACH PROPERTY OWNER? THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER. UM, SO I HAVE PULLED UP THE, UH, ORIGINAL PETITION, UM, THAT SHOWS, UM, WHO WAS NOTIFIED, WHO WAS REACHED OUT TO, UM, THE RECORD OWNER COMES FROM TCAD. SO WHOEVER WAS, UM, ON TCA AT THAT TIME, WHICH IS, UH, MRS. FLORENCE ARMSTRONG, THAT WOULD'VE BEEN WHO THE BALLOT WAS MAILED TO AT THE TIME. UM, 55.04%, UM, OF THE, UM, PROPERTY OWNERS. THERE IT IS, UH, APPROVED. YOU'RE NOT, YOU'RE NOT BEING TIMED. GO AHEAD STAN. . I SAW IT TICKING DOWN. UM, SO YES, ALL OF THE OWNERS WITHIN THE AREA HAVE TO BE NOTIFIED, I BELIEVE TWICE. UM, I CAN CHECK ON NUMBER OF NOTIFICATION. SO NOTIFICATIONS GO OUT, BUT THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY, DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY RECEIVED IT BECAUSE YOU DON'T REQUIRE A RESPONSE. AND THAT'S, THIS IS NOT A HOSTILE QUESTION, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT PROCESS LOOKS LIKE. I'LL NEED TO CLARIFY BECAUSE IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME SINCE WE'VE HAD A LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT. YEP. BUT I DO SHOW THAT THE, UH, SIGNATURE LINE FOR THIS PARTICULAR HOUSE, UM, IS, IS EMPTY. IT DOES NOT SAY THAT THEY RECEIVED A SIGNATURE IN FAVOR OR AN OPPOSITION WHEN THEY WERE CALCULATING. GOT IT. YEAH. AND, AND IT'S NOT REQUIRED, BUT OBVIOUSLY EVERY, EVERY EFFORT IS MADE TO MAKE SURE FULL NOTIFICATIONS ARE TAKING PLACE. AND WAS THIS DONE BEFORE THE CHANGES? 'CAUSE IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THERE WERE SOME CHANGES TO HOW THE, HOW YOU CAN EVEN CREATE ONE OF THESE. SO WAS THIS CREATED BEFORE THOSE, THEY TIGHTENED THEM INCREMENTALLY? UH, SO I DON'T KNOW IF THIS WAS WITHIN THE LAST, THE, UH, UM, I, I THINK THIS WAS PRIOR TO THE VERY LAST, UH, UM, RAISING OF THE BAR THAT, THAT THAT TOOK PLACE. THIS WAS WHEN WE HAD TO HAVE 51%, UH, SIGN ON TO THE PETITION. IT'S CURRENTLY 100% CONTINUOUS. THE, THE NEW LAW IS IF A SINGLE OWNER PROTEST, THEN IT REQUIRES A SUPER MAJORITY OF BOTH LEVELS OF APPROVAL TO PASS. SO IT'S STILL 51% TO INITIATE. BUT IF ONE PERSON, IF ONE OWNER DISAGREES, WHEREAS IT WASN'T THE CASE BEFORE, IT WAS SUPER MAJORITY WAS NOT REQUIRED. THAT'S, THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE. OKAY. WE STILL HAVE THE PUBLIC HEARING OPEN. DO WE HAVE ANOTHER SPEAKER? IF AND I HAVE ONE. EXCUSE ME. GO AHEAD. ONE MORE QUESTION FOR STAFF REGARDING THE NOTIFICATIONS. 'CAUSE THERE'S THE PETITION THAT GOES OUT. UH, BUT ISN'T THERE ALSO A NOTIFICATION FOR A ZONING CHANGE ONCE THE, UM, ONCE THE DISTRICT IS, IS APPROVED OR THE PROCESS FOR HEARINGS TO NOTIFY PEOPLE OF HEARINGS? YES, COMMISSIONER. THERE WOULD BE A NOTICE OF FILING AND THERE WOULD ALSO BE NOTICES FOR ALL OF THE SUBSEQUENT PUBLIC HEARINGS. AND ARE THOSE SENT CERTIFIED MAIL? UH, I BELIEVE SO. THEY'RE SENT TO THE 500 FOOT, UH, RADIUS, UM, AS WELL AS EACH INDIVIDUAL PROPERTY OWNER IN THE DISTRICT. THANK YOU. OKAY. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, DO WE HAVE ANOTHER SPEAKER? WE HAVE NO OTHER SPEAKERS. I, BEFORE WE MOVE FORWARD, UM, IT LOOKED LIKE WHEN, UH, CALLAN WAS READING OFF, I GUESS THE PERSON WHO WOULD'VE BEEN NOTIFIED, UM, THERE WERE THOSE WHO WERE SPEAKING IN FAVOR OF THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS AND IT LOOKED LIKE THEY WANTED TO SAY SOMETHING. AND I KIND OF, IF YOU HAVE A SPECIFIC QUESTION, THE PUBLIC HEARING THAT THEY'VE ALREADY HAD THEIR CHANCE TO SPEAK. BUT IF YOU HAVE A PARTICULAR QUESTION, YOU'RE CERTAINLY ABLE TO DO THAT. SO CAN, CAN I ASK, WOULD YOU LIKE TO HAVE SOMEONE FROM THE OWNER'S, UH, FAMILY ADDRESS A QUESTION? YEAH. CAN I ASK, UH, I GUESS WHAT IS IT THEY WERE GONNA SAY? OKAY, SIR, YOU'VE COME TO THE MICROPHONE. GO AHEAD AND, AND JUST I, MR. DAGEL, UH, I THINK YOU HAVE A QUESTION FROM ONE OF OUR COMMISSIONERS. GO AHEAD. YEAH, JUST, UH, I GUESS WHAT, WHAT IS IT THAT YOU WERE GONNA SAY IN RESPONSE TO, UH, WHAT CALLAN WAS READING? YEAH, SO WHEN THESE NOTIFICATIONS WENT OUT, THE PEOPLE THAT WERE IN THE HOUSE WERE DEAD. I MEAN, THERE WAS NO ONE TO SAY YES OR NO TO THE, THE HI HISTORICAL CERTIFICATION, I GUESS HENCE WHY THE SIGNATURE WAS BLANK. THAT MAKES SENSE. I, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR WHAT THE COUNTY'S PROCESS IS, BUT THERE, THERE IS A PROCESS TO NOTIFY AN OWNER, UH, DEPENDING ON THE TIMING AND WHO, WHETHER THE ESTATE HAD TAKEN POSSESSION OF THE PROPERTY, THAT WOULD DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THEY WERE PART OF THE, BUT YOU, YOU CAN SAY FOR THE RECORD THAT YOU DIDN'T GET A NOTICE. I DID NOT. YOU'RE ONE OF THE HEIRS. I DID NOT. I I, I LIVE IN, I LIVED IN CALIFORNIA AT THE TIME AND I [01:50:01] DIDN'T HAVE A CLUE AS TO WHAT WAS GOING ON. YEAH, YEAH. BE THAT, I MEAN, BUT, BUT IT IS A, IT IS STILL PART OF THE NATIONAL LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. AND THAT'S OUR, THAT'S THE REASON FOR OUR PURVIEW IS THAT IT'S A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE TO YOUR NEIGHBORS AND ALL OF THE SURROUNDING BUILDINGS WHICH HAVE BEEN DESIGNATED LOCAL HISTORIC, BUT YOU CAN ADD A HOME THAT DOESN'T, THAT EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T COMMUNICATE WITH ANYONE IN THAT HOME, THAT HOME CAN BE ADDED. THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE I'M SCRATCHING MY HEAD. IT IS PART OF THE PROCESS OF OVERALL PLANNING THAT THE CITY DOES, DOES EMBARK ON, BUT WE HAVE TO FOLLOW STATE LAW. AND AGAIN, I WASN'T INVOLVED IN THE DETAILS AT THE TIME, BUT EVIDENTLY THAT'S, THAT IS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. SO. ALRIGHT. I BELIEVE THE COMMISSIONER LAROCHE HAS A COMMENT TO MAKE. OH, I'M SORRY. COMMISSIONER LAROCHE? NO, I DON'T HAVE A COMMENT TO MAKE. I DON'T HAVE A QUESTION. I WANNA MOVE TO CLOSE PUBLIC HEARING. OKAY. UH, AND THERE ARE NO MORE SPEAKERS, SO, UH, IS THERE A SECOND? COMMISSIONER ACTON. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF CLOSING THE PUBLIC HEARING INDICATE BY RAISING YOUR HAND. IT IS UNANIMOUS. UH, COMMISSIONER ROCHE, DO YOU HAVE AN, A MOTION YOU WOULD LIKE TO PROPOSE? NO COMMISSIONERS. WE'VE HAD THE SUGGESTION THAT A, UH, POST POSTPONEMENT IN ORDER TO HAVE MORE CONVERSATION BETWEEN THE NEIGHBORS MAY BE IN ORDER HERE. UH, THERE'S BEEN A CLARIFICATION OF COURSE, THAT THIS, UH, DEMOLITION COULD NOT ACTUALLY BE, UH, ACTED UPON IF IT IS APPROVED UNLESS THEY WERE PLANS THAT WERE PRESENTED AND ALSO APPROVED. UH, BUT THIS WOULD GIVE THEM, THIS WOULD BE A DETERMINATION OF THE FATE OF THIS PARTICULAR HOUSE. UH, IF WE WERE READY TO TAKE AN ACTION, WE COULD TAKE THAT MOTION. OR AGAIN, IF THERE'S A POSTPONEMENT, THERE MAY BE MORE A, UH, OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE A DISCERNMENT ABOUT THE CONDITION OF THE HOUSE BEYOND WHAT WE'VE HAD IN FRONT OF US SO FAR. I'LL MOVE TO REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AND POSTPONE TO OUR FEBRUARY MEETING. OKAY. COMMISSIONER COOK. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. OKAY. COMMISSIONER PLEASANT WRIGHT. UH, COMMISSIONER COOK, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK TO YOUR MOTION? YEAH, THERE, THERE'S OBVIOUSLY, UH, WAY TOO MANY QUESTIONS TO, TO DEAL WITH HERE BEFORE WE CAN MAKE A DECISION. NOW. I VERY MUCH FEEL FOR THE SITUATION, UH, OF THE OWNERS. IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S, IT'S KIND OF BEEN AN ONGOING, ONGOING SAGA AND I'M SORRY THIS IS THE NEXT, NEXT BUMP IN THE ROAD FOR THEM. BUT, UH, WE ALSO HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THERE WERE A LOT OF BUMPS IN THE ROAD FOR THEM TO PUT THIS, THIS HISTORIC DISTRICT TOGETHER AND, AND THESE ARE THE ORDINANCES THAT WE ARE HERE TO ENFORCE. AND, UH, THE, THE STANDARDS SAY THAT YOU CANNOT DEMOLISH A CONTRIBUTING PROPERTY. I WAS NOT CONVINCED BY THE INSPECTION REPORT PERSONALLY. UH, THE ROOF STRUCTURE LOOKED LIKE IT WAS IN GREAT CONDITION, NEEDS TO BE RESURFACED, BUT THE ROOF STRUCTURE, AND I'LL HOPEFULLY WE HAVE OUR EXPERTS HERE THAT WILL, UH, OPINE MORE ON THIS. BUT, UH, YEAH, THERE'S A LOT OF WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE ON THE HOUSE, BUT, UH, THAT SKIRT IS IN MUCH BETTER CONDITION THAN THE SKIRT ON MY OWN HOME. UM, I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SEE IF ALL THE NUMBERS HAVE BEEN RUN. I DON'T, I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT DEVELOPING PROPERTIES WITH THE HOME INITIATIVE, BUT WITH EFFECTIVELY A VACANT LOT NEXT DOOR, UH, WHAT THE NUMBERS WERE IN TERMS OF THE COST OF RESTORING THE EXISTING HOUSE AND ADDING TWO NEW SMALLER MICROS MICRO HOMES THAT COULD BE SOLD AS THREE INDIVIDUAL STRUCTURES. YOU KNOW, UM, IF THE NUMBERS HAVE BEEN RUN, SURELY THEY BE, CAN BE COMMUNICATED TO OTHER INVESTORS AND SURELY THEY CAN BE COMMUNICATED TO US. UH, SO I THINK THAT CASE NEEDS TO BE MADE. I THINK THE CASE THAT IT'S A TEAR DOWN NEEDS TO BE MADE. UM, I MEAN, IT'S GONNA HAVE TO BE EXTRAORDINARY, EXTRAORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES BEFORE I WOULD BE WILLING TO VOTE IN FAVOR OF A DEMOLITION BECAUSE IT DOES SET A PRECEDENT NOT ONLY FOR THIS LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT, BUT FOR OTHERS, UH, UM, IN LEGAL CASES FOR, YOU KNOW, FOR THE FUTURE IN NOT ONLY OUR CITY, BUT THROUGHOUT, THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY IF WE WERE TO ALLOW IT. OKAY. SECONDER JUST THE BACK DOOR. DITTO. WHAT DO YOU SAID? THERE'S A LOT TO DISCUSS HERE. I HAVE MORE. I, I JUST THOUGHT OF LIKE A TON OF QUESTIONS THAT CAME TO MY HEAD. UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, I JUST FEEL LIKE THE ASSOCI THE, UM, DEVELOPER COULD COME BACK WITH MORE PLANS, MORE INFORMATION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW TO PRESERVE. 'CAUSE I PASS BY THERE ALL THE TIME AND, YOU KNOW, SETTING UP, LIKE YOU SAID, ADDITIONAL AD AUDS ON THAT PROPERTY, YOU KNOW, WHAT COULD YOU COME UP WITH? I UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, THE FAMILY'S IN THE HOLDING PATTERN AND THEY'RE READY TO MOVE FORWARD, BUT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION HAS WORKED HARD TO GET THEIR STATUS AND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE TO PRESERVE THAT. THANK YOU. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? UM, COMMISSIONER TO KIND OF, TO PIGGYBACK ON SOME OF THAT, I, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAKES THIS VERY DIFFICULT IS SOMEWHAT OF [01:55:01] A LACK OF UNDERSTANDING TO GO TO YOUR POINT EARLIER IS, IS OKAY, IF YOU KNOCK THIS DOWN, WHAT CAN YOU ACTUALLY PUT ONTO IT IF THERE'S SUCH A HARDSHIP WITH THE, WITH THE LOT? UM, AND I THINK YOU KNOW, IT, WHAT WOULD BE VERY BENEFICIAL IN THIS, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS A, A CHICKEN OR THE EGG THING, BUT AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT, WHAT IS INTENDED HERE. IF IT DOES GET KNOCKED DOWN, A LOT OF TIMES WHEN WE'RE, WHEN WE'RE KIND OF DISCUSSING THESE THINGS, WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SEE WHAT IS GONNA BE THERE. AND IN THIS CASE, IT'S ESSENTIALLY, YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT WE END UP GETTING TO SEE IT, BUT IT WOULD GIVE US A BETTER IDEA, I THINK. AND THAT IS NOT NECESSARILY EVEN A FULL SET OF ARCHITECTURAL DRAWINGS, BUT EVEN AN IDEA OF LIKE, WHAT DO YOU, IF, IF THIS LOT HAS POWER LINES AND THIS, THAT, AND THE OTHER GOING THROUGH IT, WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO IF YOU KNOCK THIS DOWN THAT'S SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT THAN FIXING THIS AND ADDING THE OTHER THREE UNITS LIKE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT HERE. UM, IT'S HARD FOR US TO EVALUATE THAT IN CONTEXT WITH HOW THE PRECEDENT THAT COULD BE SET OF KNOCKING SOMETHING LIKE THIS DOWN. AND SO I THINK THAT I'M GONNA SUPPORT POSTPONING IN HOPES THAT ONE IS, THERE'S ACTUALLY WITHIN THAT INSPECTION REPORT, TALKING ABOUT THE STRUCTURAL ITEMS, EVEN THE INSPECTOR HAS SOME ITEMS ABOUT YOU'D NEED TO FIX X, Y, AND Z. NOT, YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING AS MUCH AS YOU WOULD TAKE THAT IMPORTANT, THAT REPORT INTO ACCOUNT STRUCTURALLY, UM, WHICH, UH, MOST OF US WOULDN'T. UM, AND SO I THINK A LITTLE BIT MORE INFORMATION ON THAT AND AN IDEA, EVEN A VERY SIMPLE GRAPHIC OF WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED NEXT THEN WOULD BE MAYBE COMPELLING AS FAR AS WHETHER THIS IS, IS WORTHY OF BEING KNOCKED DOWN OR NOT. RIGHT NOW IT'S, IT'S, THERE'S A LOT OF, THERE'S TOO MANY QUESTIONS, THERE'S VERY FEW ANSWERS. UM, AND THIS IS NOT A PRECEDENT I THINK WE WANNA SET WITHOUT BEING VERY, VERY SURE. THANK YOU. OR DISCUSSION. VICE CHAIR EVANS. YES. UH, I ALSO HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS. I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING TONIGHT THAT CONVINCES ME THAT DEMOLITION IS NECESSARY. AND, UM, I ALSO AM CONCERNED ABOUT THE PRECEDENT THAT THIS WOULD SET FOR OTHER HISTORIC DISTRICTS, PARTICULARLY THIS ONE, WHICH WORKS SO HARD TO GET IT. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER COMMENTS? COMMISSIONERS? I, I'D JUST LIKE TO ECHO THE, THE PREVIOUS CONCERNS AND JUST, ESPECIALLY COMMISSIONER ACTINS, UM, MENTION OF BEING ABLE TO SEE SOME OF THESE, THE, THE NUMBERS FOR, UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT SPECIFICALLY IS NOT MAKING PRESERVATION PENCIL FOR THIS PROPERTY. UM, AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S A TOUGH, THIS IS A TOUGH CASE, BUT, UM, AND YOU KNOW, I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND EVERYONE'S PERSPECTIVE HERE, BUT IT'S, I DON'T, I DON'T LOVE THE IDEA OF SETTING THIS PRECEDENT EITHER, SO, OKAY. YES. AND I, I JUST WANTED TO KIND OF STATE THE OBVIOUS IN TERMS OF ECONOMIC VIABILITY. YOU KNOW, OFTEN PEOPLE WILL COME TO US AND SAY IT'S NOT ECONOMICALLY VIABLE, BUT THAT'S BECAUSE THEY HAVE A PREAS ASSUMED NOTION OF HOW THEY WORK AND WHAT KIND OF PROPERTIES THEY DO AND, AND WHAT THEY WANT TO DO WITH THE HOUSE. SO FOR THAT PARTICULAR DEVELOPER, YEAH, MAYBE IT'S NOT VIABLE BECAUSE THAT'S NOT WHAT THEY DO OR WANT TO DO, WHICH, WHICH GOES TO COMMISSIONER ACT ACT'S POINT OF, UM, IT SEEMS LIKE THERE MUST BE SOME IDEA OF WHAT THEY INTEND TO DO. SO IT'D BE GOOD TO KNOW THAT. BUT THE MAGIC IS FINDING, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S FEASIBLE IS FEASIBLE IS NOT FEASIBLE UNTIL YOU FIND SOMEONE WHO'S WILLING TO DO IT. AND IT'S FINDING THE DEVELOPERS AND THE CONTRACTORS WHO ARE WILLING TO TAKE ON THESE, THESE HAIRY CASES AS THEY CALL THEM, UM, WHICH I SEE AS TREMENDOUS OPPORTUNITIES, BUT I'M NOT A DEVELOPER OR A CONTRACTOR OUT THERE DOING IT. SO IT'S EASY ENOUGH FOR ME TO SAY. SO I, I WANT, DO WANNA NOTE THAT I ACKNOWLEDGE THE DIFFICULTY OF THAT. I THINK AS MUCH AS MAYBE PRE PRESERVATION AUSTIN OR ANYONE LISTENING CAN TALK TO OTHER PEOPLE, BECAUSE OFTEN WE FIND, UH, PEOPLE HEAR ABOUT THESE CASES. WE'VE HAD BUILDINGS THAT WE'RE GONNA GET TORN DOWN AND SOMEONE HEARS ABOUT THIS THROUGH THE NEIGHBORHOOD OR THROUGH CONNECTIONS, AND WE END UP FINDING A, THE RIGHT BUYER FOR THE RIGHT HOUSE THAT CAN, THAT CAN, THAT WANTS TO TAKE IT ON AS A PARTICULAR W WITH VOLUNTARINESS. SO, UM, THAT'S NOT TO ANY END. I'M JUST PUTTING OUT THERE THAT I REALIZE THAT, THAT THAT'S A REALITY. BUT THERE'S, THERE'S HOPEFULLY SOMEONE OUT THERE WHO CAN DO SOMETHING WITH THIS PROPERTY THAT SAVES IT WITHOUT TEARING IT DOWN. OKAY. I HAVE A QUESTION OF STAFF AND IT MAY BE SOMETHING WE NEED TO RUN BY THE APPLICANTS. UM, BACK IN THE DAY, STEVE SADOWSKI ON A PROJECT LIKE THIS WOULD ARRANGE TO WALK THROUGH THE THING AND, UH, MORE THAN ONCE AS A PRACTICING ARCHITECT WITH A LOT OF EXPERIENCE RESTORING HOUSES OF THIS KIND, HE'D ASK ME TO JOIN HIM. IS IT POSSIBLE THAT WE COULD, I THINK I WOULD BENEFIT MYSELF FROM KNOWING A LOT MORE ABOUT IS IT APPROPRIATE TO DEMOLISH THIS HOUSE? OBVIOUSLY OUR PREFERENCE IS, IT'S NOT IF WE CAN HELP IT, BUT THAT'S EYES ON THE GROUND. [02:00:01] CAN WE ARRANGE A CHANCE TO HAVE A SITE TOUR? UH, I, ONE WOULD BUSY AS I AM, I WOULD MAKE TIME FOR IT. THERE MAY BE OTHER COMMISSIONERS WHO WOULD FEEL IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE JUST TO HAVE EYES ON THE GROUND SO THAT THEY COULD MAKE THAT JUDGMENT FOR THEMSELVES. UH, IN A DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCE. WE MIGHT ASK THE APPLICANT TO BRING AN ENGINEERING REPORT. WE MIGHT ASK THE OWNERS TO PROVIDE MORE DETAILED, UH, PROFESSIONAL INFORMATION. I THINK GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT WE'RE SEEING HERE, I DON'T THINK THAT'S A, A REASONABLE REQUEST FOR US TO MAKE. OR IF WE MADE IT, IT PROBABLY WOULDN'T BE POSSIBLE. UM, BUT I DO THINK THAT IF THERE WERE A WAY WE COULD GET INTO THE HOUSE, OR CERTAINLY I COULD, UH, I KNOW I'D HAVE A, A, A MUCH BETTER JUDGMENT ON THAT ISSUE. THE, THE CRITICAL ISSUE WE'RE REALLY BEING ASKED IS THIS HOUSE SAVEABLE OR NOT? SO, UH, LET ME THROW THAT BACK TO STAFF AND SEE IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT MIGHT BE POSSIBLE. WE CAN DISCUSS AND LOOK INTO IT AND, UM, AND GET BACK WITH YOU ABOUT THAT. OKAY. AND MY SUPPORT FOR THE POSTPONEMENT WOULD NOT BE CONTINGENT UPON THAT OR NOT, BUT I THINK IT WOULD CERTAINLY HELP US IF WE COULD GET BACK TOGETHER IN A MONTH AND AT LEAST THE POSSIBILITY OF HAVING THAT UH, THAT TOUR WOULD, WOULD, UH, MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE CHAIR. WE'LL NEED TO DISCUSS WITH THE LAW DEPARTMENT, UM, TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S APPROPRIATE. UM, WE DO WANT TO AVOID ALL QUORUM ISSUES AND JUST MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING'S ABOVE BOARD. SO, UM, WE'LL GET BACK TO YOU. AND EVEN IF IT MEANS IT'S POSTED FOR, UH, THE PUBLIC WITH, WE COULD GET THE OWNERS TO AGREE, I'D BE WHATEVER IT TAKES TO DO THAT. UM, I THINK IT, IN THIS CASE, I THINK IT'S A VERY SPECIAL CASE AND IT MIGHT BE VERY HELPFUL. OKAY. UH, WE HAVE A MOTION, WE'VE, UH, ANY MORE DISCUSSION? NOT THEN I'LL CALL THE QUESTION. THOSE IN FAVOR OF POSTPONING THIS CASE TO OUR NEXT MEETING, PLEASE INDICATE BY RAISING YOUR HAND. ALL THOSE OPPOSED, I SEE ONE OPPOSED, ANY ABSTAINING AND ONE ABSTAIN. SO, UH, COMMISSIONER TUCCI IS OPPOSED, UH, COMMISSIONER LAROCHE ABSTAINS. THE REST ARE ALL IN FAVOR. AND SO THE MOTION PASSES. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH, LET'S HOPE THERE'S SOME GOOD WORK THAT CAN BE DONE IN THE NEXT 30 DAYS AND WE'LL BE BACK HERE. UH, AND NO MORE ABOUT IT. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, I THINK THAT WAS TIME WELL SPENT. THE COMMISSIONERS, WE HAVE OTHER DISCUSSION CASES WAITING FOR US. AND THE NEXT ITEM IS [15. DA-2025-142965 – 2117 W. 49th St. – Rosedale School ] ITEM NUMBER 15. AND NOW THIS IS NO LONGER, UH, CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. THESE ARE NOW, UH, REQUESTS FOR DEMOLITION AND RELOCATION PERMITS. AND ITEM NOTE NUMBER 15 IS THE, UH, WEST 49TH STREET, THE ROSEDALE SCHOOL. THANK YOU CHAIR. ITEM 15 IS, UH, CASE DA 20 25 1 4 2 9 6 5. THE ROSEDALE SCHOOL AT 2117 WEST 49TH STREET. UM, THIS ITEM CAME BEFORE Y'ALL LAST MONTH, UM, AND WAS POSTPONED. UM, SO THIS IS THE SECOND MEETING WE'RE HEARING IT AT. AND JUST TO REFRESH YOUR MEMORY, UM, FEBRUARY IS THE LAST MEETING AT WHICH IT MAY BE HEARD. UM, SO THIS IS THE LAST MEETING, UM, FOR INITIATION TO BE AVAILABLE, UM, AS AN OPTION TO THE COMMISSION. UM, AND WE DO HAVE ONE REQUEST STAFF. EXCUSE ME, JUST A MOMENT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR CONVERSATIONS. UH, CAN WE HAVE YOU TAKE THOSE OUTSIDE, THOUGH? WE APPRECIATE YOU ALL HAVING SOME TIME TO TALK, BUT PLEASE DO SO OUTSIDE. THANK YOU, JUDGE. THANK YOU. OKAY, YOU MAY PROCEED. UH, AND WE DO HAVE ONE POSTPONEMENT REQUEST FROM A NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, NOT THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION, BUT A SEPARATE NEIGHBOR. THIS IS A PROPOSAL TO DECONSTRUCT AND RECONSTRUCT A PORTION OF THE HISTORIC AGE FACADE OF A CIRCA 1939 BUILDING FOR INCORPORATION INTO A NEW APARTMENT. THE REMAINDER OF THE BUILDING WILL BE DEMOLISHED, AND FIVE ADDITIONAL STORIES WILL BE CONSTRUCTED ATOP THE FIRST FLOOR FACADE RECONSTRUCTION. THE ROSEDALE SCHOOLS A ONE STORY BRICK SCHOOL BUILDING WITH MODERN STYLISTIC INFLUENCES. THE ORIGINAL PORTION IS A SIMPLE FLAT ROOFED BRICK STRUCTURE WITH DECORATIVE STRING COURSES AND EXPANSIVE MULTI LIGHT CASEMENT WINDOWS ADDITIONS CONSTRUCTED BETWEEN 1946 AND 1949 BY CUNY JUKI AND BROOKS AND PAIGE. SUTHERLAND. AND PAIGE REPLACED THE ORIGINAL ENTRANCE WITH GLASS BLOCK WINDOWS AND SHIFTED THE NEW ENTRANCE EASTWARD THE NEW SHED IN FLAT ROOFED WINGS WITH MULTI LIGHT CASEMENTS GLASS BLOCK RIBBON WINDOWS, AND BRICK VENEER COMPRISED 10 ADDITIONAL CLASSROOMS, PLUS A GYM AND A CAFETERIA, AND AN INAUGURAL AND AN AUDITORIUM. A 1949 STATEMENT ARTICLE ADVERTISING THE OPENING OF THE NEW EDITION NOTES THAT THE HIGHLY MODERN ROSEDALE SCHOOL IS CONSIDERED A MODEL OF FUNCTIONAL DESIGN FRACTURING DOC FOLLOWING DR. DARYL B HARMON'S PRINCIPLES FOR CLASSROOM DESIGN. THE EXTENSIVE USE OF GLASS BLOCK AND RETENTION OF MAXIMUM NATURAL LIGHTING IN FOUR EXPERIMENTAL CLASSROOMS WAS DICTATED BY THE DESIGN HYPOTHESIS DEVELOPED BY HARMON DIRECTOR OF EDUCATIONAL SERVICES IN THE STATE HEALTH DEPARTMENT. HIS WORK ON THE ROSEDALE MODEL OF CLASSROOM ELIMINATION WAS INFLUENTIAL TO EDUCATIONAL DESIGN ON A NATIONAL SCALE DURING THE MID 20TH CENTURY. THE ORIGINAL PORTION OF THE BUILDING REFLECTS THE LINGERING AUSTERITY [02:05:01] OF, OF BUILDING AFTER THE GREAT DEPRESSION AND COMPLIMENTS THE SMALL FORMAT DEPRESSION ERA HOMES IN THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD. AS THE HEART OF THE ROSEDALE COMMUNITY, THE BUILDING SERVED MORE THAN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL STUDENTS. ARCHIVAL RECORDS SHOWED THAT IT WAS USED EXTENSIVELY FOR ADULT EDUCATION, PUBLIC HEALTH INITIATIVES LIKE NURSING CLASSES, RED CROSS TRAININGS, AND POLIO VACCINATION. THE TEMPORARY HOMES OF MULTIPLE RELIGIOUS CONGREGATIONS, INCLUDING METHODIST AND UNITARIAN UNIVERSALISTS AS CHURCHES SOUGHT FUNDING AND SPACE FOR DEDICATED BUILDINGS AND GATHERING SPACES FOR COMMUNITY CLUBS, POLITICAL GROUPS, AND CHARITABLE ORGANIZATIONS. ROSEDALE ELEMENTARY WAS OFTEN THE ONLY CHOICE FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD WHEN IT CAME TO LARGE GATHERINGS THROUGHOUT THE MID 20TH CENTURY. THE SCHOOL REMAINED A NEXUS FOR EDUCATION FOR THOSE OF ALL AGES AND ABILITIES TOWARD THE END OF THE PERIOD OF SIGNIFICANCE. THE BUILDING IS ALSO ASSOCIATED WITH PIONEER EDUCATOR AND HISTORIAN ALGER M AKENS CRAIG, THE FIRST BLACK LIBRARIAN IN AUSTIN, AND THE FIRST BLACK MEMBER OF THE TRAVIS COUNTY HISTORICAL COMMISSION DURING THE AREA OF BUSING, AS AUSTIN STRUGGLED TO DESEGREGATE ITS PUBLIC SCHOOLS, MRS. CRAIG WAS TR TRANSFERRED FROM BLACKSHIRE ELEMENTARY, WHERE SHE HAD PREVIOUSLY THOUGHT TAUGHT FOR THREE DECADES, AND WHERE SHE HAD ESTABLISHED THE SCHOOL'S FIRST LIBRARY TO ROSEDALE, WHERE SHE SERVED AS LIBRARIAN UNTIL HER RETIREMENT IN 1975. THE CITY OF AUSTIN'S HISTORIC DESIGN STANDARDS ARE BASED ON THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR REHABILITATION AND ARE USED TO EVALUATE PROJECTS AT POTENTIAL HISTORIC LANDMARKS. THIS PROJECT, SOMEONE MEET SOMEWHAT MEETS THE APPLICABLE STANDARDS. THE APPLICANT HAS IMPLEMENTED ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE FEEDBACK IN RETAINING THE OLDEST AND MOST VISIBLE PORTION OF THE BUILDING, AS WELL AS ITS HISTORIC AGE WINDOWS. RATHER THAN DEMOLISHING IT ENTIRELY, THE STAFF HAS FOUND THAT THE BUILDING IS ELIGIBLE FOR DESIGNATION. THE PROPOSED PROJECT REPRESENTS THE RESULT OF COMPROMISE AMONG A ISD, THE NEW PROPERTY OWNERS, CITY STAFF, AND THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE. THUS, STAFF HAS IDENTIFIED IT AS THE MOST LIKELY STRATEGY FOR PRESERVING ANY OF THIS HISTORIC BUILDING. THUS, THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS TO CONCUR WITH ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE FEEDBACK FROM NOVEMBER AND DECEMBER, 2025. STAFF STRONGLY ENCOURAGES ADDITIONAL REHABILITATION AND ADAPTIVE REUSE OF MORE OF THE HISTORIC FACADE OF THE PROPERTY, AS WELL AS SETTING BACK NEW CONSTRUCTION AS FAR AS POSSIBLE. BEHIND THE HISTORIC FACADE THAT RECOMMENDS RELEASE OF THE PROPOSED PERMIT FOR PARTIAL DEMOLITION DECONSTRUCTION AND RECONSTRUCTION OF THE BUILDING'S FACADE CLOSER TO THE STREET. UPON COMPLETION OF TWO THINGS, A CITY OF AUSTIN DOCUMENTATION PACKAGE, INCLUDING HABS LEVEL ONE, MEASURED DRAWINGS OF THE PORTIONS OF THE BUILDING CONSTRUCTED WITHIN THE 50 YEAR PERIOD OF SIGNIFICANCE AND TO A PLAN FOR DECONSTRUCTION AND RECONSTRUCTION DESCRIBING HOW THE FACADE MOVE WILL BE COMPLETED. PER NATIONAL PARK SERVICE GUIDELINES, THE APPLICANT HAS IMPLEMENTED COMMITTEE FEEDBACK IN RETAINING THE OLDEST AND MOST VISIBLE PORTION OF THE BUILDING, RATHER THAN DEMOLISHING IT ENTIRELY. THAT CONCLUDES THE STAFF PRESENTATION. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. UH, ANY QUESTIONS FROM COMMISSIONERS? UH, WE DID HAVE THIS POSTPONED, I KNOW THERE WAS SOME CONVERSATIONS THAT WE ENCOURAGED IS, IS THE PROPOSAL THAT WE'RE IN FRONT OF US TONIGHT, HAS THERE BEEN ANY CHANGE OR UPDATE? UH, YES. CHAIR. THE, UH, UPDATED PROPOSAL IS IN YOUR BACKUP, AND THAT IS THE, UH, THE RENDERING THAT WAS POSTED. OKAY. AND THEN MAYBE THE APPLICANT CAN SPECIFIES ANY OF THE, THE SPECIFIC ITEMS THAT ARE, THAT ARE IN RESPONSE TO OUR REQUESTS OR TO WHAT WE, WHAT WE WERE, UH, PRESENTING DURING THE, THE, THE BREAK. SO, OKAY. NO COM MORE QUESTIONS. LET'S GO AHEAD AND HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT. HELLO, COMMISSIONERS. I'M LEAH BOJO WITH JENNER GROUP HERE ON BEHALF OF A ISD. UM, I'LL JUST START BY GIVING YOU A LITTLE, UM, KIND OF REMINDER OF WHAT WE'VE DONE SO FAR AND HOW, HOW WE GOT TO THIS POINT, UH, IF THAT'S OKAY. UM, WE WENT TO THE, UM, WE STARTED WITH THE A RC, WELL, WE STARTED WORKING WITH STAFF IN OCTOBER AND NOVEMBER. WE WENT TO THE A RC MEETING IN NOVEMBER 12TH. WE WERE BEFORE YOU HERE ON DECEMBER 3RD. YOU ASKED US TO GO BACK TO A RC, WHICH WE DID DO ON DECEMBER 10TH, SPECIFICALLY WITH THAT FOOTPRINT EXHIBIT. UM, THE COMMISSIONER GROGAN HAD ASKED FOR, UM, WE DID DISCUSS THAT WITH YOU. AND WE ALSO HAD A MEETING WITH COUNCIL MEMBER SIEGEL'S OFFICE ON DECEMBER 10TH, UM, WITH A BUNCH OF THE NEIGHBORS THAT ARE HERE TONIGHT. UM, PRIOR TO THAT DECEMBER MEETING, AS WE DISCUSSED AT THAT MEETING, WE HAD BEEN WORKING, A SD HAS BEEN WORKING TOWARDS REDEVELOPMENT OF THIS PROPERTY FOR YEARS. UM, THERE WAS A PLAN PRESENTED TO THE NEIGHBORS IN 20 22, 20 23. UM, IT WAS A DIFFERENT EXECUTION. IT WAS A DIFFERENT NEW DEVELOPMENT, BUT IT DID CONTEMPLATE FULL DEVELOPMENT OF THE FULL DEMOLITION OF THE, OF THE SCHOOL FOR THE SITE. UM, AND IT WAS EMBRACED BY THE NEIGHBORS, WHICH IS OF COURSE IS WHAT WE HAD WANTED. UM, THE PLAN DID HAVE TO CHANGE DUE TO THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF A ISD. UM, BUT, UM, WE, WE ALSO WANNA MAKE IT CLEAR TO YOU THAT, UM, WHILE WE KNOW THERE IS SOME DISSATISFACTION WITH, UM, THE PLANS, WE HAVE A LONG, WE KNOW WE HAVE A LONG ROAD AHEAD OF US. WE KNOW WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO ON THE ZONING. THIS IS THE FIRST STEP. AND THIS, OF COURSE, UM, IS SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE DEMOLITION. [02:10:01] YOU KNOW, AND I'M TRYING TO KIND OF KEEP THE LANES DELINEATED BECAUSE I KNOW THERE'S A LOT GOING ON. UM, THE HISTORIC REVIEW, OBVIOUSLY IS SPECIFIC TO THE HISTORIC, TO THE MERITS OF THE BUILDING AND QUALIFICATION FOR LANDMARKING. WE DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THIS BUILDING, UM, IS QUALIFIED FOR HISTORIC DESIGNATION. UM, HOWEVER, AS WE DISCUSSED IN DECEMBER, WE HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH STAFF AND WE'VE COME UP WITH WHAT WE THINK IS A COMPROMISE, UM, WHICH, AND WHICH WE FEEL GOOD ABOUT. WE ELABORATED ON THAT IN DECEMBER. AND AT THE A RC MEETING, WE HAVE SHIFTED THE BUILDING A LITTLE BIT TO THE, THE, THE FACADE THAT WE'RE, UM, GONNA BE RETAINING A LITTLE BIT TO THE WEST INSTEAD OF TO THE NORTH. I'LL LET, UM, TORI TALK ABOUT THAT, BUT, UM, I JUST AS AIS C'S REPRESENTATIVE, I WANTED TO KIND OF CATCH YOU UP TO WHERE WE ARE AND, UM, OF COURSE I'M AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. OKAY, THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS, COMMISSIONERS? ALRIGHT, SO PLEASE PROCEED. NEXT SPEAKER. GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS VICTORIA HASI WITH THROWER DESIGN ON BEHALF OF OHT PARTNERS. THEY ARE THE PROPOSED BUYER AND DEVELOPER OF THE SITE. SO THIS FIRST SLIDE IN FRONT OF YOU IS AN IMAGE OF THE FRONT FACADE TAKEN IN NOVEMBER OF THIS PAST YEAR. NEXT SLIDE. SO THIS IS, UM, THAT IS NOT ACCURATE. THANK YOU. UM, UM, SO THE BUILDING WAS CONSTRUCTED AND, UM, THE SCHOOL OPENED, ITS IN SEPTEMBER OF 1939. IT IS, IT WAS ORIGINALLY A SINGLE RECTANGULAR BUILDING. STANDALONE BUILDING. AS YOU CAN SEE IN THIS AERIAL IMAGE FROM 1940. IT CONSISTED OF EIGHT CLASSROOMS, A LIBRARY AND RESTROOM FACILITIES. AND TODAY, UH, THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE AS OF NOVEMBER. IT, IT IS, UH, THIS IS THE ORIGINAL FACADE, THE ORIGINAL BUILDING. AND SINCE 2022, IT HAS BEEN USED FOR EMERGENCY OPERATION TRAINING SPECIFIC TO ACTIVE SHOOTER, UH, SCENARIOS. SO AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, THERE'S BEEN SUBSTANTIAL INCREASED WEAR AND TEAR ALONG WITH SEVERAL DECADES OF WITHOUT SUBSTANTIAL MAINTENANCE OF THIS BUILDING. SO IT'S CREATED A SITUATION WHERE WE'VE GOT A STRUCTURE THAT WILL REQUIRE A QUITE A BIT OF FUNDING TO BRING INTO CODE, AS WELL AS TO INCLUDE WITH THE REDEVELOPMENT OF THE SITE. THIS IS THE EASTERN HALF OF THE FRONT FACADE. IT SHOWS THE ORIGINAL WINDOW WINDOWS AND THE BANDED PATTERN OF BRICK. THIS IS THE CENTER, CENTER PORTION OF THE FACADE. IT HAS THE ORIGINAL LIBRARY THAT PROJECTS FORWARD FROM THE EASTERN AND WESTERN PORTIONS OF THE FRONT FACADE. THE IMAGE ON THE RIGHT SHOWS THE ORIGINAL GLASS, UM, DIFFUSER BLOCKS. THOSE WERE A KEY ELEMENT, UH, OF SIGNIFICANCE WITH, OF DR. DARRYL B HARMON'S DESIGN AND RESEARCH. THOSE GLASS BLOCKS ARE INTENDED TO REFRACT LIGHT INTO THE ROOM, CREATING AN OPTIMALLY LIT AND IMPROVED LEARNING ENVIRONMENT. AND OHT HAS COMMITTED TO REUSING THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS AND THE GLASS BLOCKS AND WHERE NECESSARY WILL REPLACE WITH IN-KIND MATERIALS. AND THEN THIS IS THE WESTERN HALF OF THE FRONT FACADE. SO PER, PER FEEDBACK THAT WE HAD FROM THE ARCHITECTURE REVIEW COMMITTEE, UM, THE OHT WAS ABLE TO PUT FORWARD THIS CONCEPT, UH, SITE PLAN LAYOUT THAT YOU SEE. IT IS READAPTIVE USE OF THE ORIGINAL BUILDING WAS GIVEN GREAT CONSIDERATION. HOWEVER, IT WAS FOUND TO BE NOT FEASIBLE DUE TO THE COST AS WELL AS SITE CONSTRAINTS. THOSE MEANING THOSE, SOME OF THOSE BEING TREES, DETENTION PONDS, PARKLAND, DEDICATION, ALL FACTORS THAT ARE, UH, DICTATING THE LAYOUT OF THIS PROPERTY AND THE REDEVELOPMENT. UM, WE DID CONSULT WITH THE CITY OF AUSTIN HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICE, AS WELL AS ARCHITECTURE REVIEW COMMITTEE TO FIND A COMPROMISE, UH, SOLUTION TO TOTAL DEMOLITION. AND WHAT THAT SOLUTION IS, IS PRESERVING THE ENTIRETY OF THE NORTH FACADE, INCLUDING THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS. AND THE DEVELOPER WILL WORK WITH A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL FOR THE DECONSTRUCTION AND RECONSTRUCTION PLAN. IS THAT THREE MINUTES FOR THE SPEAKER? OKAY. UM, DO YOU HAVE ADDITIONAL ITEMS YOU WOULD LIKE TO SHARE AS I THINK THE FIRST SPEAKER DIDN'T TAKE A FULL FIVE MINUTES? SURE. THANK YOU. UM, SO THIS IS THE CONCEPTUAL PLAN OF RENDERING OF THE FRONT FACADE AS IT WOULD BE PRESERVED. IT SHOWS IT BEING RELOCATED AND RESTORED, UM, USING THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS AND INCORPORATED INTO THE NEW DEVELOPMENT OF MULTIFAMILY HOUSING UNITS BEHIND. AND THIS IS SHOWING THE TWO JUXTAPOSED AND THEN A CROSS SECTION. SO THIS CROSS SECTION SHOWS THE FACADE AS IT WOULD MOVE NORTH BY ABOUT 11 FEET. AND IT IS ALSO GOING TO SHIFT WEST CLOSER TO THE INTERSECTION OF WEST 49TH AND RAMSEY. AND THIS IS THE SAME CROSS SECTION JUST ZOOMED IN A LITTLE BIT. UM, SO YOU CAN SEE A LITTLE BIT BETTER. THIS IS THE ORIGINAL. IT SHOWS THE ORIGINAL CONFIGURATION MAINTAINED, INCLUDING THAT PROJECTED, UH, CENTER FACADE WHERE THE LIBRARY ONCE WAS, THE NEW DEVELOPMENT. WE'LL HAVE A THREE FOOT STEP BACK [02:15:01] BEHIND THE ORIGINAL SCHOOL FACADE. AND THE INTERIOR SPACE OF THAT AREA IS PROPO. IT, IT WILL BE ACTIVE SPACE AS PART OF THE REDEVELOPMENT. AND WE DO HAVE THE ARCHITECT AVAILABLE ONLINE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT Y'ALL MAY HAVE. AND WE ARE AVAILABLE AS WELL AS Y'ALL, ANY QUESTIONS Y'ALL HAVE IN YOUR DELIBERATIONS? OKAY. I WILL HAVE SOME QUESTIONS TO THE ARCHITECT, BUT, UH, LET'S, COMMISSIONER, COMMISSIONER LA ROCHE. OH, I'VE GOT A LOT OF QUESTIONS. SO INITIALLY IN YOUR PRESENTATION YOU MENTIONED THE, THE, UH, RESTRICTIONS FOR THE BUILDING CODE LIMITATIONS, BUT I HELP ME UNDERSTAND HOW PRESERVING THE FACADE HAS ANY IMPACT WITH THOSE LIMITATIONS. I CAN'T SPEAK TO THE ACTUAL COSTS OF THAT, BUT WHAT THEY DID STUDY, THE ARCHITECT FOR OHT DID STUDY PRESERVING THE ORIGINAL RECTANGULAR FOOTPRINT, UM, OR BUILDING, SCHOOLHOUSE BUILDING. UM, AND THAT WAS FOUND TO BE COMPLICATED AND COST PROHIBITIVE. MY QUESTION IS JUST ABOUT THE FACADE, THOUGH. THERE, THERE ARE NO LIMITATIONS FOR THE BUILDING CODE, FOR RESTORING THE FACADE CORRECT. LIMITATIONS. YOU MENTIONED YOU WERE LIMITED BY THE BUILDING CODE, I GUESS YOU WERE, YOU WERE REFERRING TO THE WHOLE BUILDING AND NOT THE FACADE. THANK YOU. CORRECT. UM, I'M NOT A BIG FAN OF DECONSTRUCTION AND RECONSTRUCTION OF HISTORIC FACADES. SO I WANT TO ASK THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE, WAS THAT CONCEDED IN YOUR DISCUSSIONS WITH THE APPLICANT? I WOULD SAY IT WAS CLEARLY STATED. IT'S NOT PREFERRED, BUT IT IS PREFERRED TO DEMOLITION WITHOUT RECONSTRUCTION. I THINK THE, THE WORD LAST RESORT MIGHT BE MORE APPROPRIATE. I GUESS AT THAT POINT. I THINK WE MADE IT VERY CLEAR THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE A PORTION TRULY PRESERVED AND KEPT IN PLACE. I I AM SEEING THIS AS A FULL DEMOLITION VERSUS PARTIAL DEMOLITION. YEAH. SO, SO MY, MY QUESTION TO THAT END IS, HAVE YOU EXPLORED, IT'S A MASONRY FACADE, YOU COULD STITCH IT AND MOVE IT WHOLE. HAVE YOU EXPLORED THAT POSSIBILITY AS OPPOSED TO DECONSTRUCT AND RECONSTRUCT? BECAUSE IN MY EXPERIENCE, THE DECONSTRUCT AND RECONSTRUCT NEVER LOOKS THE SAME. AND IT, AND WHAT INEVITABLY HAPPENS IS THERE'S A WHOLE BUNCH OF EXCUSES WHY WE COULDN'T RECONSTRUCT AFTER WE DECONSTRUCTED. NOW, I DO HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE WITH THIS AND, AND I'M FAIRLY CONFIDENT THAT YOU COULD MOVE THE FACADE IN ITS TOTALITY. SO MY QUESTION IS, HAVE YOU EXPLORED THAT OR WOULD YOU CONSIDER EXPLORING IT IS MAYBE MORE OF THE POINT? I DON'T BELIEVE THAT HAS BEEN EXPLORED, BUT I WOULD DEFER TO THE ARCHITECT IF THE ARCHITECT IS AVAILABLE, UM, AN ONLINE AND AS FAR AS IF HE PRESENT, OH, GO AHEAD. CAN YOU GUYS HEAR ME? YEP. YEAH. I, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT WE JUST, EXCUSE ME, SIR. SIR, WOULD YOU PLEASE, UH, FOR THE RECORD, STATE YOUR NAME? ABSOLUTELY. APOLOGIES. MY NAME IS STEVEN. LAURA, I'M WITH CORGAN ARCHITECTS. THANK YOU. UH, THE OPTION OF MOVING THE FACADE IN TOTALITY HAS NOT BEEN EXPLORED, BUT IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE COULD LOOK INTO. AND, AND SO THEN MY QUESTION ON THE DIOCESE, WOULD THE A RC HAVE OBJECTIONS TO THAT METHODOLOGY? WELL, IT, IT, MY, MY UNDERSTANDING IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THE, THE RELOCATION THAT IS BEING PROPOSED WOULD BE THE SAME. THAT WOULD JUST BE A DIFFERENT TECHNIQUE. YEAH. A TECHNIQUE THAT WOULD NOT ALLOW, ALLOW THE INTEGRITY OF THE WALL TO BE MAINTAINED. OKAY. IT'D BE LIMITED DECONSTRUCTION AS OPPOSED TO TAKE IT DOWN, REBUILD IT. I PERSONALLY STILL HAVE SOME HESITATION WITH LOSING THE SETBACKS THAT WE HAVE FROM THE STREET THAT I FEEL SET HISTORICAL PRECEDENT THERE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND, AND PUSHING THAT FORWARD. WELL, I'M WITH YOU ON THAT BECAUSE I WOULD PREFER NOT TO MOVE THE WALL AT ALL. YEAH, YEAH. SO, BUT, BUT MINE IS ALSO CONNECTED TO THAT SETBACK FROM THE STREET AND THE SPACE THERE. UM, YEAH. BUT I THINK AS AN ALTERNATIVE, WHAT YOU'RE SUGGESTING, UM, WOULD BE BETTER. I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS. CHAIR. [02:20:01] OKAY. YES. UM, YES. WHAT GUARDRAILS HAVE BEEN PUT UP FOR, UM, POTENTIAL DAMAGE AS THIS IS MOVED? SO YOU'D MENTIONED THAT, YOU KNOW, SOME ATTEMPT AT LIKE AND KIND, BUT IS THE INTENT TO SALVAGE OTHER AREAS OF THE EXISTING BUILDING SO THAT, FOR INSTANCE, THOSE GLASS BLOCKS CAN BE REUSED IF BROKEN, UM, STEEL WINDOWS, MASONRY UNITS. LIKE IS THE INTENT TO BUILD A STOCKPILE SO THAT YOU CAN REUSE THE ACTUAL EXISTING MATERIALS? UH, YES. THAT, THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT THEY WOULD, THEY WOULD BE DOING. UM, THERE'S ALL THOSE GLASS BLOCKS ARE ON THE BACKSIDE OF THE BUILDING AS WELL. AND SO THOSE GLASS BLOCKS WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT THEY WOULD LOOK AT HOLDING ONTO AND REPLACING WITHIN KIND IF, IF NECESSARY. YES. OKAY. VICE CHAIR EVANS. YES. I WAS WONDERING IF THE AGENT OF THE ARCHITECTURE, THE DEVELOPER, HAVE HAD A CHANCE TO SEE SOME OF THE UNIQUE WAYS THAT, UH, EAST SIDE HIGH SCHOOL AT THE FORMER LC ANDERSON CAMPUS MANAGED TO INCORPORATE SOME OF THE ORIGINAL PORTIONS OF THE SCHOOL THAT WAS DEMOLISHED AND REPLACED THROUGHOUT THE BUILDING. SO, YEAH, THIS IS STEVEN. I'LL JUMP IN AGAIN. UH, WE HAVE ANALYZED THE, THE EXISTING ORIGINAL STRUCTURE AND RECOGNIZED THAT IT IS A, UH, INDICATIVE OF THE INTERNATIONAL STYLE, WHICH HAD A LOT, HAD A LOT OF STRONG HORIZONTAL, UH, ELEMENTS. AND WE'VE UTILIZED THOSE IN OUR IDEAS ABOUT HOW THE, UH, NEW BUILDING COULD BE DESIGNED. OKAY. A FOLLOW UP TO THAT IS IF, IF YOU GET A CHANCE TO VISIT THE, UH, HIGH SCHOOL AT 900 THOMPSON, THERE HAVE BEEN SOME CREATIVE WAYS THAT PORTIONS, UH, HAVE BEEN INCORPORATED THROUGHOUT THE, UH, NEW FACILITY. SO I ENCOURAGE YOU TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT. I, I, I, I THINK THAT'S A GREAT SUGGESTION. I'D LOVE TO VISIT THAT. THANK YOU. OKAY. WE'VE CALLED UPON THE, UH, ARCHITECT AS A ANSWER OF QUESTIONS. UH, IS HE SIGNED UP AS A SPEAKER? UH, WHAT WAS THE QUESTION AGAIN? SO, UH, I, I'M SORRY, MS. HAAS, YOU FINISHED YOUR, YOUR PRESENTATION. UH, SO WE HAVE THE NEXT SPEAKER. IS THAT THE ARCHITECT WHO WE'VE JUST BEEN TALKING TO? UH, HE HAD SIGNED, HE HAD INDICATED TO US THAT HE JUST WANTED TO ANSWER QUESTIONS FOR THE COMMISSION. OKAY. SO THEN DO WE HAVE ANOTHER SPEAKER? YES, WE DO HAVE SOME SPEAKERS. OUR NEXT SPEAKER IN FAVOR IS SAM STRONG? IS IT ON? HEY THERE. MY NAME'S SAM STRONG. I'M HERE TONIGHT TO REGISTER IN FAVOR OF, IN SUPPORT OF AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 15, THE ROSE DEATH SCHOOL. I LIVE IN CITY COUNCIL DISTRICT 10. I LIVE LESS THAN 10, UH, TWO MILES AWAY FROM THE SITE. I CROSSED THE SITE MULTIPLE TIMES A WEEK, EITHER ON THE WAY TO WORK OR ON THE WAY TO GO TO ONE OF THE RESTAURANTS RIGHT NEXT DOOR. I LEARNED ABOUT THIS JUST THROUGH THE NEWS. IT CONNECTED WITH ME. UH, SO I WANTED TO COME HERE AND SHARE MY THOUGHTS ON THIS TONIGHT. UM, THE, I THINK THE CURRENT PROPOSAL TO TAKE THE SCHOOL FACADE AND INTEGRATE IT INTO THE FACADE OF THE NEW APARTMENT IS A REALLY GOOD IDEA. I THINK WE'LL PRESERVE THE LEGACY OF THIS SCHOOL FOR DECADES TO COME. AND I THINK WE'LL PROVIDE REMINDER TO AUSTINITES OF WHAT WAS ONCE THERE. I THINK A FACADE, THERE WILL START CONVERSATIONS. IT'LL SPARK LEARNING FOR ALL WHO PASS BY IT TO UNDERSTAND MORE ABOUT THE SCHOOL AND WHAT WAS ONCE THERE, AND MORE BROADLY ABOUT THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF THE ROSEDALE NEIGHBORHOOD. IT'LL CERTAINLY BE COOL AND VERY UNIQUE TO SEE A SCHOOL FACADE BUILT INTO THE FRONT OF SOME APARTMENTS. I THINK IT'LL DEFINITELY ADD A CHARACTER TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD FOR SURE. UH, I ALSO, YOU KNOW, WOULD LIKE TO REMIND THE COUNCIL OF THIS COMMISSION THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE IS DOWNSIDES TO DENYING THIS PROPOSAL. UM, THIS SCHOOL'S BEEN, WELL, IT'S BASICALLY BEEN ABANDONED FOR THE PAST FOUR YEARS. I SEE IT WHEN I GO BY. IT LOOKS INCREASINGLY, YOU KNOW, RUN DOWN, WORE DOWN. I DON'T THINK, UH, PRACTICING FOR SCHOOL SHOOTINGS IS REALLY ITS BEST USE. AND, UM, YOU KNOW, I, IT WILL CONTINUE TO, TO DETERIORATE AND EVENTUALLY BECOME BASICALLY AN ABANDONED EYESORE FOR THE ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOOD. ADDITIONALLY, THERE'S REALLY NO GUARANTEE THAT ANY FUTURE DEVELOPMENT PLAN, UH, WOULD NOT INCLUDE A TOTAL TEAR DOWN OF THE SITE. EITHER OF THOSE OUTCOMES WOULD NOT AT ALL HONOR THE LEGACY OF THE CURRENT SCHOOL. AND BY DENYING THE PROPOSAL THAT WE HAVE HERE, UM, WE WILL ACTIVELY HARM THE HISTORICAL LEGACY OF THE CITY, WHICH I KNOW IS ABSOLUTELY COUNTER THE GOAL OF THIS COMMISSION. UM, ADDITIONALLY, I KNOW THERE'S BEEN TALK ABOUT POSTPONING THIS VOTE. I I DON'T REALLY SEE THE POINT OF POSTPONING THIS VOTE. WHAT ARE WE GONNA GET OUT OF POSTPONING THIS VOTE? WHY IS THE FACT THAT THIS IS UNDER LITIGATION? WHY DOES THAT SOMEHOW, [02:25:01] WHY SHOULD THAT SOMEHOW DELAY THIS VOTE HERE? UM, JUST, ARE WE JUST GONNA COME BACK HERE IN A COUPLE MONTHS AND HAVE THIS EXACT SAME CONVERSATION ALL OVER AGAIN? I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE POINT? I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO REMIND EVERYONE THAT THERE IS A RISK OF POSTPONING. UM, A IC IS TRYING TO SELL THIS PROPERTY BECAUSE THEY HAVE A BUDGET DEFICIT. IF THEY'RE UNABLE TO SELL THIS PROPERTY, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO RESORT TO OTHER THINGS. PROBABLY IN CLASSROOM BUDGET CUTS, I'M ASSUMING. I MEAN, COME ON, LIKE THAT, THAT'S NOT GOOD. WE WANT TO AVOID THAT. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE TAKE CARE OF THE SCHOOL CHILDREN OF AUSTIN. UH, SO I, I THINK IT'S, UM, YOU KNOW, I, I'M IN STRONG FAVOR OF THE CURRENT PROPOSAL. I THINK IT DOES A LOT TO HONOR THE HISTORICAL LEGACY OF THE ROSEDALE SCHOOL. I THINK POSTPONING THE VOTE IS UNNECESSARY, AND I ASK THAT YOU ALL VOTE YES IN SUPPORT OF THE PROPOSED PLAN. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AND DO WE HAVE ANOTHER SPEAKER? YES. OUR NEXT IN FAVOR SPEAKER IS RILEY PATTERSON. HI, UM, MY NAME IS RILEY PATTERSON. UM, I'M A RESIDENT OF DISTRICT 10, UM, AND THE PARENT OF A, A DAUGHTER WHO CURRENTLY ATTENDS DAYCARE IN THE ROSEDALE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND, UH, MORE IMPORTANTLY, TO MY INTEREST IN THIS MATTER, A FUTURE A ISD STUDENT. UM, THE, UH, UM, BASICALLY, I, I'M ME MOSTLY TO AMPLIFY THE POINT THAT STAFF MADE, UM, THAT THIS IS PROBABLY THE, THE OUTCOME THAT MAXIMIZES PRESERVATION, UH, ON THE SITE. AND, UM, I THINK SAM TOUCHED ON THIS POINT A MINUTE AGO AS WELL, UH, THAT, UH, THERE, THERE'S NO GUARANTEE IF WE DELAY OR IF THIS, IF THIS, UH, APPLICATION IS DENIED, THAT A FUTURE ACTION ON THE SITE WOULDN'T INVOLVE TOTAL DEMOLITION. UM, AND THERE ARE COSTS TO DELAY. THERE ARE COSTS TO DELAY TO BOTH THE PRESERVATION OF THE FACADE THAT WOULD BE PRESERVED HERE AND, AND ALSO TO AIS STEVE'S BUDGET WHERE, UH, BASED ON THEIR PROJECTIONS, THEIR DEFICIT WOULD BE MORE THAN DOUBLE IF THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO, UM, TAKE THE PROPOSED ACTION ON THIS PROPERTY. UM, SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO, UH, TO, TO BOTH THE PRES THE MAXIMIZING THE PRESERVATION OUTCOME ON THE SITE ITSELF, AS WELL AS TO LIKE, UM, KIND OF OUR COMMITMENT TO A ID TO, UH, UM, BASICALLY, UM, UH, APPROVE THE, THE APPLICATION. UM, THAT'S ALL I HAVE FOR MY TESTIMONY. THANK YOU. OKAY. THANK YOU. HAVE MORE SPEAKERS? YES. OUR NEXT IN FAVOR SPEAKER IS RON THROWER, WHO HAS WAIVED HIS RIGHT TO SPEAK. WE'LL NOW MOVE ON TO OUR IN OPPOSITION SPEAKERS, THE FIRST BEING CARL REYNOLDS. GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS. MY NAME IS CARL REYNOLDS. I'M A ROSEDALE RESIDENT. I LIVE IN DISTRICT 10, UH, 4,300 SINCLAIR. AND, UH, I'VE BEEN WATCHING THIS PROCESS AND CONVEYING INFORMATION ABOUT THIS PROCESS TO THE, UH, TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD FOR FIVE YEARS. NOW. I WROTE A LETTER TO THE CHAIRMAN, AND I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW, CHAIRMAN, IF YOU RECEIVED THE LETTER THAT I SENT TO YOU BY EMAIL. UH, YES, IT WAS, IT WAS DID COME TO MY EMAIL. OKAY, GREAT. I DON'T WANNA BELABOR SOME OF THE THINGS I SENT IN THAT LETTER. I HAD SOME KIND OF COMPLAINTS ABOUT THIS PROCESS, INCLUDING THE FACT THAT YOU'RE POSTING THIS AS A PARTIAL DEMOLITION AND, AND DISCUSSING IT, INCLUDING THE APPLICANT DISCUSSING IT AS A FULL DEMOLITION. THERE MAY BE SOME PROBLEMS UNDER THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT WITH, WITH THAT KIND OF MATERIALLY MISLEADING STATEMENT IN A, IN A POSTING. I, I, I'M SITTING HERE LISTENING TO YOU ALL TONIGHT. I HAVE A REAL NEW APPRECIATION FOR HOW MUCH YOU ALL, AND PRESERVATIONISTS AND ARCHITECTS VALUE MASONRY AND GLASS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. I, I, THAT'S KIND OF A REVELATION TO ME, BUT I HAVE TO TELL YOU FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD PERSPECTIVE THAT I'M REPRESENTING THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION AND PLAY FAIR WITH ROSEDALE, PLAY FAIR WITH ROSEDALE WAS FORMED IN OPPOSITION TO THIS UNFAIR PROCESS AND PROPOSAL. AND THE, WE DON'T SEE THE FACADE AS, AS A, IT'S NOT LIKE IT'S A FEATURE OF THAT SCHOOL. WHAT THE SCHOOL IS ABOUT IS AN OPEN SPACE, OPEN COMMUNITY. YOUR, YOUR ARCHITECTURAL SUMMARIES TALK ABOUT HOW IT FITS IN WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD BECAUSE IT'S NOT A GIANT SIZE BUILDING. WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED HERE IS ARCHITECTURALLY THE ANTITHESIS OF THE SPIRIT AND THE SPACE REPRESENTED BY THE CURRENT ROSEDALE [02:30:01] SCHOOL. IF I WERE AN ARCHITECT ON THIS PANEL AND I WANTED TO VOTE FOR THIS, I WOULD HAVE TO HOLD MY NOSE. I'M NOT AN ARCHITECT. I'M A LAWYER BY TRAINING, SO I DON'T WANT TO QUESTION HOW Y'ALL MAKE YOUR DECISIONS OR GET OUTSIDE YOUR REMIT, BUT I REALLY CAN'T UNDERSTAND HOW THE FOCUS HAS BECOME ON MOVING A LITTLE BIT OF MASONRY. AND FRANKLY, WE SEE THAT AS A FACADE IN THE SECOND MEANING OF THE WORD. IT'S LIKE PUTTING LIPSTICK ON A PIG. IT'S, IT'S COMING UP WITH SOMETHING TO SATISFY THE PRESERVATIONISTS. SO WE CAN PUT 435 APARTMENT UNITS ON FOUR ACRES OF LAND. UH, THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THIS. WE'RE GONNA KEEP SPEAKING OUT AND, UH, I, I APPARENTLY ONE OF OUR NEIGHBORS ASKED YOU TO POSTPONE YOU GRANTED A POSTPONEMENT AT THE LAST MEETING. WE APPRECIATE THAT. I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOU EXPECTED US TO ACCOMPLISH DURING THAT TIME, BUT I WILL TELL YOU THAT THERE WAS THE ONE MORE MEETING MENTIONED BY LEAH BOJO. THE ONE THING WE LEARNED IN THAT MEETING IS THAT THERE ARE NO, THERE'S NO COMPROMISE. THEY, THEY'VE TOLD US TWICE NOW, WE'RE ALL IN SIX STORIES, 435 UNITS, EDGE TO EDGE FORTRESS TYPE BUILDING THAT IS TOTALLY INWARDLY FOCUSED. UNLIKE THE, THE FEEL AND THE LOOK AND THE, THE REALITY OF THE ROSEDALE SCHOOL PROPERTY RIGHT NOW, IT'S JUST A ARCHITECTURAL 180 DEGREE TURN FROM, FROM THE CURRENT REALITY. AND WE DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW, HOW PEOPLE CAN THINK THAT'S OKAY. IT'S NOT ON A CORRIDOR, UH, IS GONNA CREATE TRAFFIC PROBLEMS. THERE'S ALL KINDS OF ISSUES. IF Y'ALL REALLY WANT TO KNOW ABOUT BRICKS AND PIECES OF STONE THAT HAS SIGNIFICANCE, GO AND WALK AROUND THAT PROPERTY. THERE ARE LITTLE MEMORIALS THAT PEOPLE HAVE PLANTED. THERE ARE TREES THAT PEOPLE HAVE PLANTED IN HONOR OF THEIR CHILDREN WHO WENT TO THAT SCHOOL AND HAVE PASSED AWAY SINCE THEN. THEY'RE ALL OVER THE INNER COURTYARD OF THAT BUILDING. THAT'S WHERE I, YOU TALKED EARLIER ABOUT GOING TO VISIT THE, THE HOUSE ON MLK. I REALLY ENCOURAGE Y'ALL TO COME AND WALK AROUND THIS SCHOOL. YOUR, YOUR ARCHITECTURAL BACKGROUND EVEN SAYS THAT THE SOUTH WALL OF THE SCHOOL IS WHERE THERE'S SOME ARCHITECTURAL SIGNIFICANCE WITH THE GLASS BRICKS AND EVERYTHING. IT'S NOT EVEN THE NORTH FACADE THAT YOUR STAFF TELLS YOU IS ARCHITECTURALLY SIGNIFICANT. AND, AND YET THAT'S, THAT'S THE FOCUS. ALL WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS MOVING OR REPLACING OR DOING SOMETHING WITH THAT FACADE. I DO NOW HAVE A NEW APPRECIATION FOR HOW Y'ALL VIEW THIS KIND OF THING, AND I UNDERSTAND MORE ABOUT WHY THAT'S CAPTURED YOUR INTEREST AND YOUR FOCUS. BUT AGAIN, WE SEE THIS AS JUST DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED TO WHAT HAS BEEN THERE FOR 90 YEARS. I, I, I WOULD ALSO COMMENT BEFORE I RUN OUT OF TIME A ISD SCHOOL CRISIS, THEIR FINANCIAL CRISIS IS COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT. I WISH YOU WOULDN'T EVEN ENTERTAIN IT IN TESTIMONY. AND I CERTAINLY HOPE IT'S NOT ENTERING INTO YOUR MENTAL CALCULUS ABOUT THIS. IT IS NOT RELEVANT. I WANT YOU TO DE DENY THIS APPLICATION. SEND A ISD BACK TO SQUARE ONE. THE LAWSUIT'S GONNA SEND THEM BACK THERE ANYWAY. THANK YOU. OKAY, THANK YOU COMMISSIONERS. ANY QUESTIONS OF THE SPEAKER? OKAY, THE NEXT SPEAKER PLEASE. OUR NEXT IN OPPOSITION SPEAKER IS REGINA ALLEN. UH, ARE YOU WAIVING? YEAH. OKAY. OKAY. NEXT SPEAKER, PLEASE WAIVE THE RIGHT TO SPEAK. OUR NEXT SPEAKER AFTER THAT IN OPPOSITION IS CHRIS ALLEN WAIVE ALSO. OKAY. WAIVED HIS RIGHT TO SPEAK. AND THEN OUR LAST IN OPPOSITION SPEAKER IS MATTHEW MARTIN. YOU WEREN'T ABLE TO GET HIM. THAT'S OKAY. HELLO? UH, YEAH. I COME TONIGHT TO SPEAK ABOUT THE ROSEDALE SCHOOL. UH, I'VE LIVED IN ROSEDALE ALL MY LIFE. MY GRANDPARENTS, UH, LIVE ON LINWOOD, HAD LIVED ON LINWOOD STREET. AND, UH, I INHERITED THE HOUSE FROM THEM. AND SO IT'S BEEN A PART OF MY COMMUNITY, BASICALLY ALL MY LIFE. AND, UM, I HEAR PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF THE GLASS AND THE BRICKS OF THE BUILDING. I'M NOT SURE A TINY PORTION OF THE FACADE OF A BUILDING PUT ON THE EXTERIOR OF SOME SIX FOOT, SOME SIX STORY MONSTROSITY THAT'S PUSHED ALL THE WAY OUT TO THE CURB IS GOING TO SAVE ANY KIND OF FEEL LIKE WE SAVED THE SCHOOL, I THINK, OR IT'LL BE HOLLOW. I THOUGHT IT WOULD JUST BE DISSOLVED INTO THE BUILDING. I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WOULD EVEN RECOGNIZE IT. UH, THE FACT THAT THE SCHOOL IS IN NEGLECT IS THE FAULT OF THE INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT WHO'VE DONE NOTHING TO TAKE CARE OF IT OVER THIS TIME. [02:35:01] AND, AND NOW THEY COME SAYING THAT THEY'RE OUT OF MONEY AND THEY MUST SELL THIS PROPERTY. UM, BUT I HEAR MOSTLY I ASK YOU THAT THINK ABOUT THE MOST IMPORTANT HISTORICAL VALUE OF THAT LAND IS THAT IT WAS THE ONE PLACE THAT A LOT OF CHILDREN WHO WERE DISABLED FOUND A HOME, A PLACE THAT THEY OR UNDERSTOOD AND CARED FOR. AND, UH, MOST OF US KIND OF TURN OUR HEADS. AND I, AND I'M THE ONE WHO DOES IT TOO. UH, BUT THIS WAS A PLACE FOR THEM. I'VE KNOWN FAMILIES WHO HAD CHILDREN THAT WENT THERE AND ACTUALLY PASSED AWAY WHILE THERE WERE STUDENTS THERE. AND WHEN I TALK ABOUT THERE IS A MEMORIAL ON THE BACK, IT'S NOT JUST A FEW THINGS. THERE IS A WHOLE BRICK WALL OF NAMES, ALMOST A HUNDRED NAMES BACK THERE OF CHILDREN, A WHOLE GARDEN. THE SCHOOL HAS NEGLECTED TO TAKE CARE OF. THE MINIMUM SHOULD BE DONE IS THIS MEMORIAL PERHAPS MOVED TO THE NEW SCHOOL. BUT IF WE JUST ERASE THOSE NAMES, BULLDOZER 'EM DOWN INTO THE DIRT, WE WILL HAVE TREATED THESE CHILDREN LIKE WE DO DAY TO DAY AND NEGLECT THEM. SO Y'ALL WILL DECIDE WHAT TO DO WITH THE PROPERTY, BUT IN THE END OF IT, YOU ARE TELLING, YOU'LL DECIDE FOR US HOW WE TREAT THE VERY LEAST AMONG US, THESE CHILDREN'S MEMORY. SO THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY. THANK YOU. OKAY. THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS? YES, I HAVE A QUESTION. QUESTION FOR THE SPEAKER, ACTUALLY. UM, IT'S, IT'S UNDERSTANDABLE. THERE'S A LOT OF EMOTION ABOUT THIS AND IT'S, IT'S APPRECIATED. UM, AT THE SAME TIME, THERE'S VERY LIMITED TOOLS THAT WE HAVE TO SAVE THESE THINGS. UM, IT'S AN ARDUOUS PROCESS TO GO THROUGH TO ACTUALLY GET HISTORIC DESIGNATION ON SOMETHING, FOR INSTANCE. AND, UM, IT'S QUESTIONABLE IF THIS MEETS IT AND ALL OF THAT. BUT MY QUESTION IS THIS. UM, AND THIS IS NOT TO BE NOT SAID IN ANGER OR ANYTHING I SPECIFICALLY WANT TO KNOW IS THERE WAS A DECENT AMOUNT OF WORK DONE TO TRY TO SALVAGE A PART OF THIS BUILDING TO, TO MAKE A PLACE FOR IT. AND THERE MIGHT BE OTHER PLACES THAT THAT, OR PIECES THAT SHOULD BE. UM, BUT AS A NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION OR PEOPLE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, IF YOUR OPTIONS ARE TO HAVE A PIECE OF THIS FACADE INCLUDED IN THIS DESIGN OR TO HAVE ABSOLUTELY NONE OF IT, WHICH ONE DO YOU CHOOSE? WELL, OBVIOUSLY WHEN WE CHOOSE TO SAVE SOME OF IT, UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, GIVING TWO CHOICES OUT OF, I BELIEVE THERE'S MANY MORE THAN TWO CHOICES TO BE MADE. UM, UH, THIS, THIS, THE WAY THIS HAS BEEN PRESENTED BY THE SCHOOL BOARD IS THAT THIS IS THEIR ONLY OPTION TO MEET THEIR BUDGET. AND THE SCHOOL DISTRICT COULD DO MANY THINGS WITH THIS. PROPERTY CAN BE SOLD IN MANY WAYS. UH, AND PERHAPS IN THAT, UH, THE, SOME WAY THEY SAVE A PORTION AS A PARK OR A COMMUNITY CENTER OF SOME KIND THAT HAS MORE OF THE BUILDING SAVED. THE SCHOOL DISTRICT WOULD RECUPERATE PRETTY CLOSE TO THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY. MY, MAYBE NOT PERHAPS THE EXACT SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY, BUT THEY STILL COULD MAKE, MAKE QUITE A BIT OF MONEY IN THEIR PROCEDURE. AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD WOULDN'T BE NEARLY AS DAMAGED AS A GIGANTIC BUILDING IN THE MIDDLE. AND MOST OF ALL, EVEN IF THEY, YOU CONTINUE TO BUILD THIS, AT THE VERY LEAST SOMETHING SHOULD BE DONE WITH THIS MEMORIAL. I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT THE SCHOOL DISTRICT HAS DECIDED NOT TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. I MEAN, UH, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS A, UH, A PARENT ASSOCIATION FOR THESE CHILDREN. YOU KNOW, I IMAGINE THERE MAY BE ONE WITH THE NEW SCHOOL, BUT, UH, IT, IT WOULD BE TERRIBLE. I MEAN, I CAN'T, I CAN'T IMAGINE ANYBODY'S STOMACHING THE IDEA IF YOU GO GO WALK THE GROUND TO THIS PLACE, YOU SEE, IT'S KIND OF JUST DILAPIDATED. THERE'S A ANGEL WHO'S LOST HER HEAD OVERLOOKING THESE CHILDREN'S MARKERS. AND, UH, JUST THE IDEA THAT THEY WOULD JUST BULLDOZER THAT DOWN AND ERASE THEM. AND UNFORTUNATELY WE DON'T HAVE ANY PURVIEW OVER MOST OF THAT, OBVIOUSLY. RIGHT. I, I REALIZE THAT. BUT SLOWING THIS DOWN AND, AND I DON'T KNOW THE, THAT'S HISTORICAL. THE, YOU KNOW, ASKING TO SAVE THOSE PIECES OF, OF MEMORIAL ITEMS, UH, LIKE I SAID, IF I BROUGHT SOME PICTURES, BUT THEY CAN'T GET 'EM UP, THERE IS LIKE A PONY WALL THAT'S JUST PART OF AN ENTRY INTO THE BACK THAT IT'S JUST FILLED WITH PLAQUES OF NAMES ON IT. UM, I WOULD JUST HATE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, I MEAN, I PERSONALLY WOULD WRITE A CHECK TODAY IF IT WOULD HELP, YOU KNOW, IN STORE SOME KIND OF POSSIBILITY TO MOVE IT. UH, UH, BUT, UH, I'D HATE TO SEE THAT THOSE CHIL, YOU KNOW, THE MEMORY OF THOSE CHILDREN, THEY GET A TOUGH LOT IN LIFE. AND, UH, CAN I, CAN I ALSO, UH, THE HANDS WERE RAISED OVER HERE WITH THE GROUP, ONE GENTLEMAN SPOKE, THE OTHER TWO WAIVED JUST VERY QUICKLY, WOULD YOU ALSO, DO YOU CONCUR THAT OUT OF THOSE, THOSE TWO OPTIONS THAT WE'RE SITTING HERE TALKING ABOUT, WOULD RETAINING THE FACADE BE WHAT YOU WOULD CHOOSE OR IS TO SEE THE TOTALITY OF IT GONE BE YOUR CHOICE? UH, CHRIS ALLEN FOR THE ROSEDALE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION, THANKS FOR THE QUESTION. [02:40:01] UM, REALLY THE, THE PROPOSAL THAT'S ON THE TABLE, UH, MOVING AND RECONSTRUCTING A FACSIMILE OF A PORTION OF THE BUILDING REALLY, I THINK JUST ADDS INSULT TO INJURY. BUT THAT'S, THAT'S MISSING THE POINT OF WHAT THAT BUILDING STOOD FOR, WHAT THAT SCHOOL REPRESENTED TO THIS COMMUNITY. UM, SO I, I DON'T THINK IT'S WORTH THE EFFORT. GOOD. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OKAY. ANY FURTHER QUESTION? THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND THANK YOU FOR, UH, RAISING THE ISSUE OF THE MEMORIAL WALL. I DON'T THINK ANY OF US WERE AWARE OF THAT, THOUGH. I CERTAINLY WAS AWARE OF ITS USE, UH, FOR SPECIAL NEEDS STUDENTS, BUT, UH, THAT PART OF IT, UH, SEEMS LIKE A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF ITS LEGACY. UH, ARE THERE OTHER SPEAKERS? WE HAVE NO OTHER SPEAKERS. OKAY. UH, I UNDERSTAND THAT THE, UH, APPLICANT HAS THE ABILITY TO PROVIDE REBUT IF THEY SO CHOOSE GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS, VICTORIA HASI AGAIN. UM, SO THE PROPOSAL THAT WE HAVE PUT FORTH, WE DO, UH, BELIEVE THAT THAT IS A PROPOSAL THAT SAVES THE MOST VISUALLY SIGNIFICANT PIECE OF THIS HISTORY. UM, THERE IS RECOGNITION THAT THIS PROPERTY HAS SERVED THE COMMUNITY FOR A LONG TIME, AND IT WILL CONTINUE TO SERVE THE COMMUNITY IN PERHAPS A DIFFERENT WAY THAN IT HAS IN THE PAST. AND I THINK IT'S UNREALISTIC TO EXPECT THAT AS THIS PROPERTY CHANGES OWNERSHIP INTO PRIVATE HANDS, THAT ALL OF THIS PROPERTY IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO BE AVAILABLE TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE GENERAL PUBLIC. BUT I WILL SAY THAT THERE HAS BEEN, UH, A COMMITMENT THAT THE PLAYGROUND PARK AREA THAT IS AT THE REAR PART OF THE SCHOOL, THAT'S GOING TO CONTINUE TO BE SOMETHING THAT IS AVAILABLE TO RESIDENTS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. IT WILL BE, BE PRESERVED AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE A SPACE WHERE THE COMMUNITY CAN GATHER. UM, BUT MOVING FORWARD, UM, THIS SITE, WHETHER IT'S OHT OR SOME OTHER OTHER ENTITY THAT COMES INTO BUY THIS PROPERTY, IT WILL LOOK DIFFERENT IN SOME FORM OR FASHION THAN WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE TODAY. AND I THINK THAT WHAT WE'VE PUT FORWARD, WHAT OHT HAS PUT FORWARD AS A PRESERVATION ELEMENT IS MAKING A, A GOOD EFFORT TO PRESERVE VISUALLY WHAT HAS BEEN IN THIS AREA FOR A LONG TIME WHILE ALSO MARRYING IT WITH NEW DEVELOPMENT. UM, AND WE REMAIN AVAILABLE IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. UM, I DO HAVE ONE QUICK ONE. UM, WHEN YOU MENTIONED THE PLAYGROUND AREA, DOES THAT INCLUDE THE MEMORIAL WALL THAT'S BEEN REFERENCED? OH, THANK YOU. I ACTUALLY MEANT TO TOUCH ON THE MEMORIAL WALL. SO THE MEMORIAL WALL, MANY ELEMENTS OF THAT MEMORIAL HAVE BEEN MOVED TO THE NEW LOCATION OF THE ROSEDALE SCHOOL. UM, IT IS TRUE AND ACCURATE. THERE WERE A LOT OF, UH, VERY FRAGILE STUDENTS THAT ATTENDED SCHOOL AT THIS LOCATION UP UNTIL 2022. AND SO THOSE ELEMENTS OF THAT MEMORIAL WALL, EVERYTHING THAT COULD BE MOVED EASILY, ALL OF THAT HAS BEEN MOVED TO THE NEW ROSEDALE SCHOOL LOCATION. THERE IS A, A, A BRICK, UH, PERHAPS A HALF WALL THAT IS STILL STANDING. UM, AND THAT REMAINS, BUT ALL THE OTHER ELEMENTS RELATED TO THE MEMORIAL HAVE ALREADY BEEN MOVED. SO THE PLAQUES AND ALL THE OTHER MEMORIAL ITEMS ARE NO LONGER, NO LONGER ON THE WALL. I, I CAN'T SPEAK TO, LIKE, I WOULD HAVE TO GO OUT TO THE SITE TO SEE EXACTLY WHAT IS LEFT YEAH. IN TERMS OF LIKE THE HALF WALL AND, UM, BUT IF THERE'S ANY OTHER DESIGNATION THAT WOULD, THE, THE, THE INTENT I UNDERSTAND IS IF IT'S NOT BEEN MOVED ALREADY, IT STILL WOULD BE. THAT'S CORRECT. I MEAN, I, I DON'T THINK THE, THE PROPOSED BUYER HAS ANY, ANY PROBLEM WITH, YOU KNOW, REMOVING WHAT CAN STILL BE REMOVED AND, AND TRANSFERRED TO, TO THE NEW SCHOOL. OKAY. AND LET ME JUST CLARIFY. UH, I KNOW THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, UM, THE POTENTIAL BUYERS, THE, UH, YOU AND AND OTHER ENTITIES HAVE PUT IN A, A CONSIDERATE AMOUNT OF TIME HAS WORKED WITH STAFF IN ORDER TO PUT THIS PARTICULAR PRESENTATION IN FRONT OF US. UM, BECAUSE IT IS A BUILDING OF A CERTAIN AGE AND HAS WITH POTENTIAL SIGNIFICANCE, UH, COMES UNDER OUR PURVIEW, UH, THAT'S THE REASON WHY WE'RE HERE. SHORT OF, UH, I THINK COMMISSIONER ACTON SAID SHORT OF INITIATING HISTORIC ZONING IN THIS CASE, IT WOULD CLEARLY BE OVER AN OWNER'S OBJECTION. UH, WE DON'T REALLY HAVE MANY TOOLS OTHER THAN TO NEGOTIATE OR PROVIDE, UH, OUR EXPERIENCE AND GUIDANCE TO AN OWNER, AND THEN WE CAN PROCEED WITH WHATEVER AN OWNER'S WILLING TO GIVE US. UH, IN THIS CASE, MY UNDERSTANDING [02:45:01] IS THIS REQUEST COMES WITH THESE TRADE-OFFS THAT THIS SELLER AND BUYER COMBINATION IS WILLING TO GIVE US, IF YOU WILL, IS WILLING TO PRESERVE AND WOULD BE WILLING TO GIVE GUARANTEES THAT THIS PRESERVATION WILL TAKE PLACE. SO TO THAT END, I GUESS I'M ASKING YOU THREE POTENTIAL QUESTIONS. YOU HAVE COME TO US WITH THE REQUEST STRICTLY FOR A TEAR DOWN REBUILD, AND YOU'VE SHOWN IT IN A PARTICULAR LOCATION. AN ALTERNATIVE THAT COMMISSIONER, UH, LAROCHE JUST MENTIONED WOULD BE NOT TO HAVE A TEAR DOWN, BUT TO KEEP THE WALL INTACT AND JUST STRICTLY, UH, BE LOOKING AT REMOVING IT. BASICALLY A MOVING OF THE WALL, NOT A TEAR DOWN REBUILD. AND IF THAT OPTION WAS ALSO PART OF WHAT WE ARE ABLE TO, UH, GIVE YOU, YOU WOULD POTENTIALLY BE ABLE TO LOOK AT THAT AS WELL. IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. THE ARCHITECT SPOKE EARLIER THAT THEY WOULD DEFINITELY BE WILLING TO EXPLORE THAT ALTERNATIVE TO, TO RECONSTRUCTING AND DECONSTRUCTING AND RECONSTRUCTING. AND THEN THERE'S A THIRD ALTERNATIVE, WHICH I THINK MIGHT ALSO, IN LIGHT OF THE EFFORT NECESSARY TO DO ALL THESE AND GUARANTEE THAT THEY'RE ALL DONE PROPERLY. AND I'LL COME TO THE GUARANTEES LATER. A THIRD ALTERNATIVE COULD BE TO FOREGO THOSE 11 FEET, BECAUSE YOU STILL HAVE A VERY LARGE FOOTPRINT OF A LARGE BUILDING, AND TO INCORPORATE THE FACADE IN ITS CURRENT FOOTINGS, SO IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE MOVED AT ALL, IN WHICH CASE IT WOULD JUST BE A MATTER OF PRESERVATION OF THAT MATERIAL INTACT. AND THEN TO BUILD A FACADE THAT WOULD STEP BACK A FEW FEET AS YOU WERE ALREADY PROPOSING, BUT TO DO SO IN A WAY THAT THE NEW DESIGN WOULD THEN INCORPORATE AND BE, UH, WORKING WITH THAT FACADE WITHOUT HAVING TO MOVE IT. AND I KNOW YOU SAID YOU'VE EXPLORED IT, BUT YOU HAVE STILL PRELIMINARY PROPOSALS. WE DON'T HAVE WORKING DRAWINGS ON THE TABLE. THESE ARE NOT FULLY ENGINEERED YET. SO THAT AS A CONCEPT COULD ALSO POTENTIALLY WORK SO LONG AS THE BUYER WERE ABLE TO ADJUST THEIR FOOTPRINT TO ACCOMMODATE THAT. THEY DID EXPLORE LEAVING THE FACADE IN ITS CURRENT LOCATION, AND IT WAS FOUND TO BE PROBLEMATIC. I CAN'T SPEAK TO EXACTLY WHAT THE PROBLEMS RELATED TO THAT ARE. YEAH. BUT THEY DID EXPLORE THAT. WELL, I'M SURE THERE'S INTERNAL FLOW AND, AND LAYOUT, BUT WHAT YOU SHOWED US IN SECTION IS 11 FEET. SO 11 FEET TIMES THE LENGTH, TIMES THE HEIGHT, AND WHATEVER THAT COST IS COMPARED TO THE COST OF TEARING DOWN AND MOVING AND DOING, AS I SAY. WELL, I'LL GET INTO GUARANTEES LATER. SO THOSE ARE ALL TRADE-OFFS THAT YOU POTENTIALLY WOULD ACCEPT. AND THEREFORE OUR, IF, IF WE HAD A MOTION THAT WERE TO ACCEPT THIS AND SAY THAT A DEMOLITION SELECTED DEMOLITION PERMIT WAS, UH, BEING RELEASED BY US, IT WOULD BE CONTINGENT UPON ONE OR MORE OF THESE OPTIONS THAT WOULD BE, UH, FOLLOWED BY, BY THE, THE, THE APPLICANT AT THAT TIME. UH, WOULD YOU ALSO THINK IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE FOR A REVIEW OF THE NEW FACADE IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE PRESERVED HISTORIC FACADE IN WHICHEVER FASHION IT WAS WAS DONE? WOULD THAT BE ALSO SOMETHING THAT YOU'D BE WILLING TO, OR WOULD, WOULD BE PART OF THE TRADE OFF SO THAT YOU WOULD HAVE OUR EXPERTISE IN REVIEWING WHAT THE THING LOOKED LIKE WHEN IT WAS ALL DONE? UH, YOUR DIAGRAMS AND YOUR SKETCHES THAT YOU'VE SHOWN SO FAR ARE PRETTY GENERIC AND THEY REALLY, I APPRECIATE THE ARCHITECT SAYING THERE WAS SOME EFFORT TO AT LEAST SHOW IN, IN CONCEPT THAT IT MIGHT BE ABLE TO RELATE TO THE HORIZONTAL, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S BEEN DEVELOPED VERY WELL. AND CERTAINLY THERE ARE LOTS OF WAYS WE COULD IN DIALOGUING WITH THE ARCHITECT ON THAT FACADE, MAKE SOMETHING THAT WAS MUCH MORE APPROPRIATE FOR ALL THE EFFORT THAT WENT INTO THE PRESERVATION ELEMENT. IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD PROPOSE HAPPEN THROUGH THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE OR AT THE FULL COMMISSION? IT, WE COULD, WE COULD MAKE REFERENCE TO, UH, A COMMITMENT TO HAVE THE REFERENCE, UH, EITHER AT THE ARCHITECTURE REVIEW COMMITTEE OR HAVE THEM MEET FIRST AND THEN, UH, BROUGHT TO THE WHOLE COMMISSION. I I THINK THAT COULD BE WORKED OUT. AND ULTIMATELY I, I, I WOULD NEED TO CHECK WITH THE, WITH, UH, THE DEVELOPER TO SEE IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THEY WOULD BE WILLING TO CONSIDER. SO IF YOU GIVE ME SOME TIME HERE, UM, OKAY. TO DO THAT. I, I THINK IT'S, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, A A PASTED ON SLICED SOMETHING THAT HAS NO RELATIONSHIP TO THE REST OF THE BUILDING, AND LORD KNOWS WE'VE SEEN THAT SOMETIMES HAPPENS, UH, WOULD CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, MAKE WHATEVER EFFORT WE DID, UH, A, A WASTED EFFORT FOR SURE. UM, AND I BRING UP THOSE FOUR ISSUES, AND THEN I'M GONNA THROW OUT ONE MORE, BUT GO AHEAD. THERE MAY BE SOMETHING ELSE THAT'S RELATED TO THAT. WELL, WHAT I HEARD [02:50:01] WAS A WILLINGNESS TO GRANT MORE TIME IN ESSENCE OF POSTPONEMENT. UH, WELL, I MEAN, I THINK I, I THINK I'D LIKE TO POSTPONE, BUT WITH, UH, MAYBE IF, IF THAT'S, IF THAT'S APPROPRIATE, BUT WITH THE VERY SPECIFIC REQUEST THAT WE WORK OUT SOME OF THE LANGUAGE, PERHAPS THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT THE APPLICANTS WOULD AGREE TO BECAUSE THIS IS ALL, UH, YOU KNOW, WE, WE WOULD RELEASE THE PERMIT, BUT WE WOULD DO IT WITH, WITH THESE UNDERSTANDINGS, THESE CONTINGENCIES THAT YOU WOULD COME TO THE TABLE AND AGREE TO ALL, FOR THE PURPOSE OF US BEING ABLE TO FURTHER OUR MISSION OF HELPING YOU WITH A PRESERVATION OF THIS IMPORTANT ELEMENT. OBVIOUSLY OUR PREFERENCE WOULD BE TO PRESERVE THE WHOLE SCHOOL. I THINK I, I'M, I'M NOT, I'M NOT SPEAKING OUTTA TURN TO SAY THAT, BUT THIS PROCESS HAS GOTTEN US TO THE POINT WHERE THIS SEEMS TO BE THE BEST ALTERNATIVE. SO I'M TRYING TO, TO, TO RECOGNIZE THAT ACTUALLY SEEING THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THAT ALTERNATIVE TO ITS SUCCESSFUL ULTIMATE END MAY HAVE ALL THESE OTHER COMPONENTS STILL TO BE WORKED OUT, BUT WE COULD PERHAPS HAVE THAT INCLUDED IN OUR UNDERSTANDING. EXCUSE ME ONE SECOND. IT'S MY SON. HOLD ON. . OKAY. AND IT, I, I'M, I'M THROWING A BUNCH OF STUFF OUT THAT MAYBE ALSO REQUIRES SOME CLARIFICATION FROM STAFF. UH, WOULD MY, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THIS WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT THE OWNER, UH, THE APPLICANT WOULD AGREE TO, BUT THESE WOULD BE BASICALLY CONTINGENCIES THAT WE WOULD ADD TO OUR APPROVAL OF THE SELECTED DEMOLITION. AND COMMISSIONER M UH, CHAIR MOFF, CAN YOU CLARIFY, CAN YOU WALK ME THROUGH, YOU SAID THERE WERE FOUR THINGS. CAN YOU WALK ME THROUGH THOSE FOUR THINGS AGAIN? AND SO THE, IT WOULD BE THREE DIFFERENT OPTIONS FOR THE FACADE AND HOW IT WOULD BE, UH, INTEGRATED INTO THE NEW BUILDING LEFT IN PLACE, AND THE NEW BUILDING BUILT AROUND IT MOVED INTACT OR YOUR PROPOSAL CURRENTLY, WHICH IS TO TAKE IT APART AND REBUILD IT. THAT'S SORT OF THE OVERSIMPLIFICATION, BUT I THINK THAT'S IT. AND THEN THE FOURTH WOULD BE A, ULTIMATELY A REVIEW OF THAT, THAT NEW FACADE, NEW STRUCTURE IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE PRESERVED ELEMENT. OKAY. UM, SO I CAN TELL YOU THAT THEY ARE WILLING TO, THEY, THE, THE FACADE MOVING IS, IS SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN, BUT THEY ARE WILLING TO COME BACK AND HAVE Y'ALL REVIEW THE, THE NEW CONSTRUCTION, THE DESIGN OF THE NEW CONS, THE FACADE OF THE NEW CONSTRUCTION THAT'S GOING TO CORRESPOND TO, UH, THE PRESERVED FACADE. OKAY. UM, I'M THINKING WE COULD GIVE YOU THE CHOICE WHERE YOU COULD INCLUDE THE THIRD AS A CHOICE IF YOU WISHED CHAIR. CAN I MAKE A, A JUST A COMMENT ON THE TIMELINE OF THIS. UM, SO RIGHT NOW THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS WHAT'S ON THE TABLE. UM, THIS ITEM CAN ONLY COME BACK TO ONE MORE MEETING AFTER THIS MEETING. SO FEBRUARY IS THE LAST, UH, HISTORIC LANDMARK COMMISSION HEARING OF THIS PARTICULAR CASE, UM, WHICH MEANS THAT, UH, WE WILL NOT GET ANY OF THE DOCUMENTATION OR ANYTHING REQUESTED IN THE STAFF REPORT IF, IF YOU CHOOSE TO GO WITH AN ALTERNATE, UM, AN ALTERNATE PLAN. SO, UM, UH, UH, GUARANTEEING, UM, AND ENSURING THIS AGREEMENT IS GOING TO BE MORE DIFFICULT IF IT IS MADE, UH, CLOSE TO THE END OF THE TIMELINE. YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? UNLESS THE APPLICANT WAS WILLING TO PAUSE THE CLOCK . WELL, THOSE ARE THE FOUR ITEMS THAT I THINK WOULD BE IN MY MIND, WE COULD ARTICULATE FAIRLY SIMPLY, UH, WHETHER IT WAS A MOTION NOW OR WHETHER IT REQUIRED THE, UM, THE, UM, APPLICANT TO GIVE IT ADDITIONAL CONSIDERATION. UH, I, I WANNA THROW ONE OTHER ELEMENT OUT, BUT IT MAY BE A MONKEY WRENCH. SO, UH, LET ME MAKE SURE THAT OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE A CHANCE. AND CHAIR, I JUST HAD A QUESTION FOR ONE OF THE APPLICANTS OR THE ARCHITECT, BECAUSE WE KIND OF HAVE BEEN THROUGH THIS PUSHING THE FACADE BACK AND FORTH, AND I KIND OF HESITATE TO GO THROUGH ANOTHER ROUND OF THIS. I, WE DIDN'T REALLY GET THE LEVEL OF DETAIL I THINK THAT ALL OF US WOULD LIKE AND PLAN DEVELOPMENT TO UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHY IT NEEDED TO FALL WHERE IT WAS. BUT AS I RECALL, IT HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE PARKING GARAGE AND THE PARKING GARAGE ENTRANCE. IS THAT CORRECT? THAT, THAT, THAT WAS THE FUNCTIONAL ELEMENT THAT HAS BEEN, BEEN LOOKED AT AND WE HAVEN'T REALLY SEEN THE PLANS THAT SHOWED WHY THAT WAS THE CASE, BUT WE [02:55:01] DID STRONGLY, YOU KNOW, ENCOURAGE KEEPING IT IN PLACE AND WE WERE BASICALLY TOLD IT IT WAS A NO GO. AND IF, IF THAT'S THE CASE, I I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S WORTH KEEPING IT ON THE TABLE AT THIS POINT. AND SO MY QUESTION WOULD BE, IS THAT ACCURATE TO WHO, WHICHEVER THE APPLICANTS CAN ANSWER THAT CORRECTLY AND WITH ENOUGH DETAIL TO SATISFY THE POOL COMMISSION? UM, THAT IS CORRECT. UH, COMMISSIONER KOCH, UM, THE REASON WHY IT NEEDS TO SHIFT IS BECAUSE OF THE DRIVEWAY ALIGNMENT AND THE ENTRANCE TO THE PARKING GARAGE AND THE PARKING GARAGE. UM, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S POSSIBLE TO BRING THE PRESENTATION BACK UP. UM, UM, ON PAGE SEVEN, IT SHOWS THE, THE CONCEPT LAYOUT, BUT UM, IT SHOWS THE SITE CONSTRAINTS AS WELL. AND SO WE'RE WORKING WITH HERITAGE TREES, UM, AND ALSO WORKING WITH THE TOPOGRAPHY OF THE SITE AND, AND HOW THE SITE WILL DRAIN AND WHERE THE DETENTION INFRASTRUCTURE IS GOING TO HAVE TO GO. AND SO IT REALLY, IT REALLY IDENTIFIES THAT THE PARKING GARAGE NEEDS TO GO ABOUT WHERE IT'S BEING SHOWN. AND SO IF YOU SEE THE, THE DASHED BLUE OUTLINE IS THE CURRENT FOOTPRINT OF THE ORIGINAL SCHOOL BUILDING, AND SO THAT, THAT'S PROBLEMATIC. AND SO THAT'S WHY WE ARE NEEDING TO RELOCATE THE FACADE. NOW, I WILL SAY WE ARE STILL, WE ARE STILL GOING TO EXPLORE THE RELOCATION METHOD, RELOCATING IT INTACT VERSUS DECONSTRUCTING AND RECONSTRUCTING. I CAN'T SAY, I CAN'T GIVE YOU AN ANSWER RIGHT NOW ABOUT IF, IF THAT IS INDEED SOMETHING THAT THEY'LL AGREE TO, BUT THEY WILL EXPLORE WHAT THE DIFFERENCE IS BETWEEN THOSE TWO OPTIONS. UM, AND IF IT MAKES SENSE, I DON'T THINK THEY WOULDN'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH MOVING IT AS AN INTACT PIECE, BUT MOVING IT IS SOMETHING THAT, THAT IS GOING TO BE NECESSARY. AND AS I RECALL, AS I RECALL, THAT LOCATION OF THE ENTRANCE HAD TO DO MORE WITH EXTERNAL FACTORS OF THE STREETS AROUND AND THE CURB CUTS AND THE OPPOSING CURBS RATHER THAN THE, OBVIOUSLY THE PLANS ARE FAIRLY HIGHLY DEVELOPED. AND, UM, I THINK THERE IS THE SENSE THAT THE LACK OF FLEXIBILITY HAS TO DO WITH THE LEVEL OF DEVELOPMENT OF THE PLANS. BUT THIS IN PARTICULAR HAD TO DO WITH THE SITE CONSTRAINTS AND THE SURROUNDING ROADS AND WHERE AN ENTRANCE TO A PARKING GARAGE OF THAT MAGNITUDE COULD, COULD LEGALLY BE PLACED. THAT'S CORRECT. UM, TRANSPORTATION PUBLIC WORKS IS GOING TO LARGELY DICTATE WHERE, UM, WHERE DRIVEWAY ENTRANCES CAN GO, AND THEY TEND TO ALIGN THEM WITH DRIVEWAY ENTRANCES ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET OR, OR STREET CONNECTIONS. UM, AND SO THAT'S WHY, UM, THAT'S WHY IT IS SHOWN WHERE IT IS. YEAH. AND THAT DRIVE COULDN'T BE ON BURNETT AND IT COULDN'T BE ON EITHER OF THE OTHER TWO STREETS AT THIS POINT, I ASSUME IS PART OF THAT ADDITION TO THE ALIGNMENT ALONG THE STREET WHERE IT'S BEEN CHOSEN? CORRECT. AND, AND THE ALIGNMENT OF, OF WHERE IT IS KIND OF MID-BLOCK, UM, IS ALSO WHAT, WHAT WE SEE AS PROBABLY BEING THE BEST THING IN TERMS OF ANY TRAFFIC THAT MIGHT BE QUEUING TOWARDS BURNETT ROAD. UM, AND, AND JUST PROVIDING A, A BETTER FLOW OF TRAFFIC PATTERN THROUGHOUT THE, THE SITE AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD. SO JUST IN TERMS OF THAT IMPASSE ABOUT LEAVING IT WHERE IT IS, I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE KIND OF LEFT IT. SO I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANY FURTHER DEVELOPMENT OR REASON TO LEAVE THAT ON THE TABLE AT THIS POINT. OKAY. I, I'VE HAD A LOT TO SAY. IS ANY, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM COMMISSIONERS? BECAUSE I DO HAVE QUESTION. WELL, YOU CAN JUST ASK A QUESTION OF STAFF IF, IF IT'S PERTINENT TO THIS ISSUE. YEAH. I BELIEVE IT'S PROBABLY MORE TO STAFF THAN ANYONE. UM, SO WITH THIS IS WHAT KIND OF GUARDRAILS ARE THERE ABOUT THE REQUIREMENT THAT THEY ACTUALLY FULFILL THIS PROPOSAL TO FOR THE HISTORIC FACADE? AND THEN IN THE FUTURE, IS THIS PORTION OF THE FACADE, LET'S SAY THEY WANT TO MAKE A CHANGE TO IT, DOES THAT HAVE TO COME BACK THROUGH US BECAUSE IT RETAINS SOME HISTORIC REQUIREMENT TO COME BACK THROUGH US, OR DID WE LOSE ANY CONTROL OVER THAT PORTION OF THE FACADE? THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER. UM, SO TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, UM, IF THE, IF ONLY THE FACADE WAS RETAINED, UM, THE BUILDING WOULD LOSE SUFFICIENT INTEGRITY FOR HISTORIC ZONING, UM, AND IT WOULD NOT COME BACK. UM, THAT BEING SAID, UM, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW Y'ALL BASICALLY HAVE THREE OPTIONS. SO FIRST OPTION IS TO, UM, INITIATE HISTORIC ZONING AT THIS MEETING, UM, AND NEXT MEETING, POTENTIALLY RECOMMEND TO COUNSEL WHERE IT WILL MOST LIKELY NOT PASS WITH [03:00:01] A SUPER MAJORITY. UM, AND THEN THIS, UM, THE APPLICATION AS PRESENTED WOULD BE RELEASED, UM, WITHOUT ANY DOCUMENTATION, UM, OR THE, UH, THE PLAN FOR DECONSTRUCTED REQUESTED IN THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION. UM, SECOND OPTION IS TO, UM, POSTPONE, UM, TO THE NEXT MEETING AT WHICH THE OPTION TO INITIATE AND RECOMMEND HISTORIC ZONING WOULD BE OFF THE TABLE. UM, THE OPTIONS THAT THE NEXT MEETING WOULD BE TO APPROVE STAFF RECOMMENDATION, SOMETHING ELSE ENTIRELY, SUGGEST SOMETHING ELSE ENTIRELY IN A MOTION, UM, OR TO TAKE NO ACTION, UM, WITHOUT THE POTENTIAL FOR INITIATING HISTORIC ZONING. UM, THERE REALLY IS NOTHING THAT'S GOING TO HOLD THE APPLICANT TO ANY OF THESE AGREEMENTS BECAUSE THE COMMISSION HAS DECIDED THAT THE BUILDING IS NOT HISTORIC. UM, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. SO, UM, THE THIRD OPTION IS TAKE NO ACTION. UM, AND AGAIN, YOU'LL NOT RECEIVE ANY DOCUMENTATION OR ANY OF THE DECONSTRUCTION AND RECONSTRUCTION, UM, DOCUMENTS REQUESTED IN THE STAFF REPORT. THE APPLICATION WILL BE RELEASED, UH, AS SUBMITTED, UM, AT THE, UH, X EXPIRY OF THE 75 DAYS. SO LET ME CLARIFY THAT, THAT OPTION THOUGH, OF THE APPROVAL, UH, WITH THESE GUARANTEES, OR I SHOULD SAY WITH THESE STIPULATIONS. SO WE STIPULATE, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT THEY HAVE TO DO A DOCUMENTATION PACKAGE UNTIL YOU RECEIVE THAT THEY DON'T GET THE BILL, THAT THE, THE DEMO PERMIT. SOME OF THESE OTHER ELEMENTS THAT THEY WOULD AGREE TO. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE RECONSTRUCTION OF THE FACADE. WOULD THOSE ALSO FALL INTO THE SAME CATEGORY? THESE ARE, THESE ARE CONTINGENCIES. THEY HAVE TO DO THIS FOR THE, FOR US TO BE WILLING TO ISSUE THE DEMO PERMIT. SO, SO LONG AS THEY'VE DEMONSTRATED THEY'VE DONE IT OR IN THE PROCESS OF DOING IT, OR I'VE GOT AN IDEA ABOUT THAT, BUT, UM, THAT, THAT WOULD FALL IN THE SAME CATEGORY, WHICH IS BASICALLY A RELEASE THE PERMIT. BUT WITH CONTINGENCIES, I THINK IT WOULD DEPEND ON THE CONTINGENCY CHAIR. UM, AND WE'D HAVE TO CHECK WITH THE LAW DEPARTMENT ON WHAT EXACTLY THEY WOULD ACCEPT AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, HOW HOW FAR, UM, THAT CAN GO. UM, DOCUMENTATION PACKAGE AND REQUESTING DOCUMENTATION IS FAIRLY STANDARD. UM, AND WE KNOW THAT LEGAL IS OKAY WITH US REQUESTING THAT IN OUR STAFF REPORT. BUT ANYTHING BEYOND THAT, WE WOULD NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT, UM, THAT IT WOULD BE LEGALLY BINDING WITH THE LAW DEPARTMENT AND SOME OF THESE OTHER ELEMENTS. NOT KNOWING FOR SURE THAT THESE CONTINGENCIES WOULD HOLD UP. WE ALSO HAVE AN ENTITY HERE THAT'S IN THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, AND THERE'S A LOT OF PUBLIC INTEREST IN THIS. AND IF THEY MAKE A COMMITMENT ON THE RECORD, THERE'S SOME UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE'LL BE SOME LEVEL OF GOODWILL AND SOMEBODY TEARING UP THEIR AGREEMENT JUST BECAUSE THEY FELT LIKE IT, UH, WOULD NOT BE WHAT WE WOULD NORMALLY EXPECT UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES. BUT I THINK WHAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE TRYING TO SAY IS THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT LEVEL OF ENFORCEMENT IN THE EVENT THAT THE PARTIES WEREN'T CONTINUING TO FOLLOW THROUGH WITH THEIR COMMITMENTS, WHICH IS WHY I WAS TRYING TO MAKE THE CASE TO BEGIN WITH, THAT THIS IS REALLY ALL COMMITMENTS THAT THIS, THIS ENTITY IS PUT ON THE TABLE AND WOULD AGREE TO. AND THEN WE COULD WRITE THOSE AGREEMENTS INTO, POTENTIALLY INTO OUR PROPOSAL, UH, INTO OUR, OUR, OUR RELEASE OF THE PERMIT. SO, I, MS. BOER, YOU HAVE A COMMENT ABOUT THAT. THANK YOU SO MUCH. IF I COULD JUST, I JUST WANNA ADD THAT THIS IS A SALE OF THE PROPERTY. SO WHILE IT'S OWNED BY THE SCHOOL DISTRICT RIGHT NOW, IT WON'T BE OWNED BY THE SCHOOL DISTRICT IN THE FUTURE, WHETHER IT'S OHT OR ANOTHER BUYER. SO, UM, THAT WOULD BE ON THE RECORD THAT THE DISTRICT HAD SOLD IT UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES WITH THESE UNDERSTANDINGS BASED ON THE PRESERVATION. UH, IT DOESN'T GIVE US A IRONCLAD GUARANTEE, BUT IT CERTAINLY GIVES US A BULLY PULPIT. YES. CHAIR. CAN I ASK FOR A CLARIFICATION? SURE. AS I READ BULLET TWO IN STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION, WHICH IS THE PLAN FOR DECONSTRUCTION RECONSTRUCTION, DESCRIBING HOW THE FACADE RELOCATION WILL COMPLY WITH THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE GUIDANCE. I THINK WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WITH THE WALL FALLS UNDERNEATH THAT REQUIREMENT. SO THEY COULD DO EITHER I, I, WELL, I WOULD, I WOULD STRIKE DECONSTRUCTION RECONSTRUCTION AND REPLACE IT WITH RELOCATE IF STAFF IS AMENABLE TO THAT. WELL, MY RECOMMENDATION, I MEAN, THAT WOULD JUST BE A PROPOSAL IN, IN, WELL, I'M, I'M IN MY MOTION, BUT I, I VIEW THAT AS BEING CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES THAT STAFF HAS LAID OUT FOR US THAT SAYS THOSE ARE THE TERMS IN WHICH THE PARTIAL DEMOLITION CAN BE RELEASED, AND YOU HAVE TO MEET THOSE TERMS. AND I THINK THAT'S KIND OF WHERE YOU'RE HEADED. RIGHT. THOUGH, THOUGH, THERE IS ONE OTHER QUESTION I HAVE OF PERHAPS STAFF AND THE APPLICANT. [03:05:01] I'D MENTIONED THE ISSUE OF GUARANTEES. UH, I KNOW FROM OTHER JURISDICTIONS, UH, IT IS NOT DESIRABLE TO HAVE HISTORIC BUILDINGS TORN DOWN AND REBUILT, BUT EVERY NOW AND THEN, THAT DOES HAPPEN. AND I DO KNOW AT LEAST ONE JURISDICTION THAT, UH, EVERY TIME THAT HAPPENS, OF COURSE, IT'S PART OF THEIR CODE. THEY REQUIRE A FISCAL GUARANTEE, UH, THAT BASICALLY, IF IT'S NOT DONE RIGHT, THAT GUARANTEE MAKES SURE IT, IT CAN BE, UH, DONE RIGHT. UH, AND THE, AND THE THE MONIES ARE COMMITTED FOR THAT. UH, THAT'S ALLOWED FOR, UH, A LOT OF PEOPLE TO REST EASY. AND SOME OF THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU WERE RAISING, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT DONE RIGHT UNTIL THE PRESERVATION ASPECTS ARE COMPLETED AND IT'S DONE RIGHT. AND THE FISCAL IS RELEASED. SO, AGAIN, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT IF WE WERE TO ASK FOR THAT GUARANTEE, UH, AND MAKE THE DEMOLITION PERMIT, UH, PART OF THE CONTINGENCY, THAT MIGHT ALSO SOLVE THE PROBLEM OF THIS BEING CONVEYED TO ANOTHER OWNER BECAUSE THE FUNDS WOULD STILL BE THERE. SO IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE COULD WORK OUT IF THAT WAS PART OF OUR CONTINGENCY FOR THIS, UH, DEMOLITION PERMIT, THAT THERE WOULD BE SOME LEVER LEVERAGE, UH, SOME, SOME FISCAL GUARANTEE THAT WOULD MAKE SURE THAT THIS, UH, MOVEMENT RECONSTRUCTION, HOWEVER IT WAS DONE, WAS IN FACT DONE IN APPROPRIATE WAY AND THEN WOULD MAKE SURE THAT, THAT THAT HAPPENED? CHAIR, I, I AGREE WITH YOU. AND SO I THINK IT'S JUST WORDSMITHING. ITEM NUMBER TWO IS I'M NOT SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE GUIDANCE IS THE CORRECT REFERENCE. I I THINK THERE'S MORE STRINGENT REFERENCES AVAILABLE TO US, AND I THINK JUST WORDSMITHING THAT CLAUSE WOULD, UH, I BELIEVE THAT WOULD SATISFY YOUR AIM. WELL, THIS WOULD BE CONTINGENT UPON IT, BUT THE PERMIT WOULD BE RELEASED. A NEW OWNER COULD COME IN AND NOT FOLLOW IT. OBVIOUSLY, THERE'D BE A LOT OF DISRUPTION IN THE PUBLIC SPHERE, BUT THEY COULD DO THAT. AND WHAT, WHAT LEVERAGE WOULD WE HAVE? THEY'D ALREADY HAVE THEIR PERMIT THAT, THAT'S WHAT I, THAT GUARANTEE UNDERSTAND, CONTINUING TO MAKE SURE THAT THE COMMITMENTS WE'RE ALL AGREEING NEED TO BE MADE ALL IN THE SPIRIT OF MAKING SURE THAT THE MOST AMOUNT OF THE SCHOOL THAT CAN BE CONTINUED IS DONE SO PROPERLY, UH, WHILE WE'RE ALL AT THE TABLE IN AGREEMENT. CAN WE LOCK THAT IN, I GUESS IS WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO. I HAVE ANOTHER STAT OR ASKING IF THAT'S POSSIBLE, I SHOULD SAY, TO THAT END. I MEAN, WHAT'S THE CONSEQUENCE OF NOT DOING ANY OF IT? LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE WE'RE SAYING ESSENTIALLY THIS IS CONTINGENT ON THE HABS PACKAGE AND EVERYTHING ELSE. WHAT IF THEY JUST DON'T DO THE HABS PACKAGE EITHER? WHAT IF THEY JUST DON'T DO ANYTHING IF WE JUST SPENT HOURS? JUST SO I THINK COMMISSIONER, THAT, THAT COMES DOWN TO THIS IS A COMPROMISE THAT WE HAVE REACHED. UM, NOT DOING ANYTHING IS AN OPTION. UM, IT'S NOT A COMPROMISE IF THEY STILL CAN DO NOTHING. SO THE COMPROMISE IS THEY'VE DECIDED TO DO THIS, AND SO THEY NEED TO DO IT. SO WHAT METHODS DO WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THEY ACTUALLY DO IT RIGHT? IF THE PERMIT IS RELEASED UPON THE CONTINGENCIES AND THE MOTION, THAT'S, THAT'S ALL WE HAVE. AND THERE'S NO CONSEQUENCE IF THEY DON'T DO IT. WELL, THAT'S ONCE, ONCE, I MEAN, YOU WOULD, YOU WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO RECEIVE THE PERMIT WITHOUT FULFILLING THOSE. YEAH. MY UNDERSTANDING IS ONCE THE DEMOLITION PERMIT IS, AND, AND THAT'S WHY THE DRAWINGS ARE SO EASY, BECAUSE YOU GET THE DRAWINGS, YOU GET YOUR DEMO PERMIT, RIGHT. WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GOES BEYOND THAT. IT HAS TO DO WITH, WITH ACTIONS THAT THEN TAKE PLACE MM-HMM . BECAUSE OF THE DEMOLITION AND THEN AFTER, RIGHT. THAT'S COMPLETED. AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE'RE OPEN BASICALLY OPENING, ENTERING INTO NEW AREAS. BUT WE'RE, WE'RE TALKING, WE'RE SPEAKING WITH THE DEVELOPER WHEN REALLY IT'S THE OWNER THAT WOULD THEN HAVE TO FORCE THAT AS PART OF THE SALE OF THE PROPERTY ARE AREN'T WE TALKING TO THE WRONG ENTITY WITH THOSE REQUIREMENTS THAT WE WANT TO HOLD? WHAT YEAH, THEY DON'T OWN THE PROPERTY. THAT'S RIGHT. THAT, THAT'S MY POINT. I MEAN THAT A ISD CAN MAKE THAT GUARANTEE TO YOU, BUT I, I DON'T THINK THE DEVELOPER CAN. YEAH, THERE'S NO PRIVITY. TOO MANY THINGS CAN, THE SALE COULD NOT FALL, FALL THROUGH. ONCE AGAIN, UH, UH, OF COURSE NOW WE'RE GETTING PAST MY EXPERTISE, BUT YOU COULD HAVE A SALE WITH CONTINGENCIES, BUT ONCE THE SALE HAS BEEN TAKEN PLACE, IF [03:10:01] SOME OF THOSE CONTINGENCIES WERE PERFORMANCE ABOUT CONSTRUCTION, THAT MIGHT BE SEVERAL YEARS OFF. IT'S NOT LIKE IT'S NOT GONNA NEGATE THE SALE IF SOMEBODY DOESN'T FOLLOW THROUGH OR DOESN'T, DOESN'T MEET THOSE CRITERIA. SO I THINK THE CONTINGENCIES ARE ONLY GOOD FOR THOSE ITEMS THAT CAN BE COMPLETED PRIOR TO THE ACTION. SO THE DEMO PERMIT IS ONE ACTION. ANYTHING WE NEED BEFORE IT, ONCE IT'S ISSUED, WE BASICALLY LOSE OUR LEVERAGE. SIMILARLY, IF WE ASK A ISD TO MAKE SURE THAT THE SALE ADDED GUARANTEES TO PROTECT OUR RE REQUESTS OF THEM FOR HISTORY, UH, ONCE A SALE WAS MADE, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANY MORE LEVERAGE THEY WOULD HAVE. UH, I THINK THAT'S WHY SOME OF THESE OTHER JURISDICTIONS HAVE GONE TO THE FINANCIAL GUARANTEE. SO TWO, AND THERE'S NO MECHANISM FOR FORCING, THERE'S NO MECHANISM FOR US HAVING THIS CONVERSATION ESSENTIALLY WITH WHOEVER IS GOING TO REVIEW AND PERMIT THE DRAWING SETS THAT THIS IS INCLUDED IN THAT. WE HAVE TWO POINTS HERE, UM, THAT ARE IMPORTANT. SO FIRST OF ALL, WHAT'S ON THE TABLE IS WHAT WE'RE VOTING ON, RIGHT? WHAT, WHAT YOU HAVE IN YOUR BACKUP IS WHAT'S GOING TO BE STAMPED, AND THAT'S WHAT'S GOING TO BE APPROVED. UM, ANYTHING ELSE, UM, THAT WE DON'T HAVE PLANS FOR THAT IS, YOU KNOW, THAT COMES AFTER, WE'LL HAVE TO COME BACK, UM, AND HAVE THIS SAME CONVERSATION AT THIS STAGE. UM, HOWEVER, ONCE THE COMMISSION DOES NOT INITIATE HISTORIC ZONING, WE LOSE A LOT OF THAT LEVERAGE, UM, IN DICTATING WHAT THE NEW BUILDING POTENTIALLY COULD LOOK LIKE. UM, SECOND, UM, I DID JUST GET IN TOUCH WITH OUR LAW DEPARTMENT, UH, LIAISON, AND SHE LET US KNOW THAT THERE IS NO CODE AUTHORITY, UH, FOR A FISCAL GUARANTEE OF THE TYPE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW. SO, UM, I I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S SO SHORT, SHORT OF BEING ABLE TO ON THE FLY, MAKE ONE UP AND EVERYBODY AGREE THAT THEY'RE GONNA DO IT. YEAH. I, I THINK IT'S WORTH EXPLORING. UH, OBVIOUSLY IT'S NOT A MECHANISM WE HAVE, BUT YEAH, YOU CAN SEE WHERE THE ISSUE COMES UP. YES. SO, UM, I, I, AGAIN, ON BEHALF OF A ISD, WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, BOTH PARTIES HERE. UM, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT IF YOU GIVE THIS, IF YOU MAKE THIS, YOU RELEASE THIS PERMIT WITH THIS CONTINGENCY THAT WHEN, WHEN THE SITE PLAN IS THEN SUBMITTED, IT WOULDN'T, YOU KNOW, IT WOULDN'T BE SUBMITTED BY A IC BUT IT WOULD BE SUBMITTED FOR THIS PROPERTY UNDER WHOEVER THE NEW OWNER IS, THAT THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED BECAUSE IT WAS A CONDITION OF THE RELEASE. SO IT IS AN ENFORCEABLE, IT IS AN ENFORCEABLE REQUIREMENT BECAUSE OF THIS PROCESS. IF, IF THE, IF THE, UH, DEMO PERMIT IS NOT RELEASED AND WE JUST CONTINUE TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS AND IT JUST, AND THAT, AND THIS PERIOD EXPIRES AT THAT POINT, THERE WOULDN'T, IT WOULDN'T BE ENFORCEABLE. IT WOULD BE ON EVERYONE'S BEST, YOU KNOW, PROMISES. AND THAT'S WHAT HONESTLY, ON BEHALF OF THE DISTRICT WOULD MAKE ME NERVOUS, BECAUSE I DON'T WANT THE DISTRICT TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR SOMETHING THAT SOME FUTURE OWNER DOES. BUT IF YOU DO THESE, IF YOU MAKE THESE CONDITIONS TODAY AS PART OF THIS MOTION, WE WOULD BE HELD TO THOSE AND WHOEVER WE SELL THE PROPERTY TO WOULD ALSO BE HELD TO THOSE IN THE SITE. IN THE SITE PERMIT PROCESS. CORRECT. THE SITE DEVELOPMENT PERMIT PROCESS, NOT NECESSARILY THE BUILDING PERMIT. WELL, THE BUILDING PERMIT WOULD BE IN ALIGNMENT WITH THE SITE PLAN. OKAY. SO I GUESS THEY'D HAVE TO SHOW IN THE PLANS THAT THEY WERE PLANNING TO DO IT, WHAT LEVEL OF GUARANTEE AFTERWARDS. WELL, YOU WOULDN'T INSPECT, I MEAN YEAH. THEN THE INSPECTOR WOULD'VE TO SIGN OFF TO MATCH THE SITE PLAN. SO THAT'S, THIS WILL BE COMMUNICATED. SO YES, THIS WILL BE COMMUNICATED EFFECTIVELY. THESE REQUIREMENTS WILL BE COMMUNICATED EFFECTIVELY THROUGHOUT THE PERMITTING PROCESS. YES, SIR. WELL, IT'LL BE UP TO US TO MAKE SURE IT'S COMMUNICATED EFFECTIVELY, BUT POTENTIALLY EVEN TO THE POINT OF, YOU KNOW, THE C THE C OF O GETTING OUR LAST INSPECTION AND MAKING SURE THAT IT'S DONE RIGHT. BUT THAT REQUIRES A LOT OF OTHER PARTIES TO BE WILLING TO CONTINUE TO, TO WORK WITH US FOR THAT PURPOSE. YEAH, AND I JUST MAKING SURE, I MEAN, THIS ALL BECOMES ELECTRONIC AFTER THIS, THIS BECOMES ELECTRONIC GATEWAYS, RIGHT? IT'S NOT GONNA BE YOU GUYS WALKING DOWN THE HALLWAY WHEN YOU THINK THAT PLANNING IS LOOKING AT THIS THING AND SAYING, HEY, REMEMBER THEY HAVE THIS REQUIREMENT, SO MAKING SURE THAT HOWEVER THAT'S TYPICALLY DONE IS CONVEYED. SO THEN WHEN THE PERSON'S LOOKING AT APPROVING THIS, THEY'RE LIKE, WHERE'S THE, HIS HISTORIC FACADE? IT DISAPPEARED. I UNDERSTAND. OKAY. AND THAT'S GET LOST. IT WILL BE CONVEYED WITH THE BUILDING PERMIT. UM, IF THE NEW OWNER OR APPLICANT CHOOSES NOT TO FOLLOW THE BUILDING PERMIT, UM, YOU KNOW, AT THAT PHASE, IT'LL GO TO LITIGATION, I GUESS, BUT, UM, BUT STILL FOR FAULT, THE EXISTING BRICK DISAPPEARS ALL OF A SUDDEN, AND IT BECOMES, OOPS. RIGHT? SO IF THAT HAPPENS BETWEEN NOW AND THE ISSUANCE OF THE BUILDING PERMIT, THERE WILL BE OTHER PLANS EXAMINERS WHO ARE GOING TO LOOK AT THAT AND REFER BACK TO WHAT'S STAMPED IN OUR RECORD. OKAY. SO A POINT [03:15:01] OF CLARIFICATION, LADIES, AND, AND I KNOW WE'VE, WE'VE REALLY RUN THE CLOCK ON THIS ONE, AND I'LL TELL YOU, MY WIFE IS A TREMENDOUS COOK, AND AT THIS POINT I'M GETTING SUPER HUNGRY, BUT I WOULD ASK THAT IN THE LANGUAGE THAT STAFF HAS PREPARED, WOULD YOU CONSIDER, UH, STRIKING DECONSTRUCTION RECONSTRUCTION SUCH THAT BULLET TWO NOW READS A PLAN FOR DESCRIBING HOW THE FACADE RELOCATION WILL COMPLY WITH THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE GUIDELINE? I THINK THAT REMOVING THOSE TWO TERMS DOESN'T NECESSARILY RULE OUT CONSTRUCTION AND DECONSTRUCTION OR DECONSTRUCTION RECONSTRUCTION, BECAUSE I THINK THE GUIDELINE WILL GIVE YOU THAT ABILITY ANYWAY. BUT AT LEAST IT ASSURES ME THAT YOU'LL IN GOOD FAITH, LOOK AT RELOCATING VERSUS DECONSTRUCTION RECONSTRUCTION. WOULD YOU ACCEPT THAT? YES. YES. IF I MAY, COMMISSIONER, I THINK WE WOULD WANT, UH, DECONSTRUCTION, RECONSTRUCTION OR RELOCATION JUST TO COVER ALL BASES IN CASE RELOCATION IS NOT POSSIBLE. I I THINK IT'S ALREADY COVERED IN THE REFERENCE YOU PROVIDED. I, I THINK HAVING BOTH WOULD BE PREFERABLE, JUST BUILT AND SUSPENDERS FOR CLARITY. THERE'S NO CONCERN ABOUT THAT. YEAH. AND, AND WE'RE PRETTY BROAD WITH NATIONAL PARK SERVICE GUIDANCE, SO THAT EVEN THAT MAY NOT BE INTERPRETED THE WAY YOU WOULD LIKE IT TO BE WITHOUT MAYBE BEING A LITTLE MORE SPECIFIC. SO YOU JUST, YOU'D PREFER TO, TO SAY THAT BOTH OF THOSE WOULD BE REFERENCED, CHAIRMAN AS AS, AS A POTENTIAL. UM, WE STILL HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING AND WE HAVE NOT CLOSED THAT. UH, I KNOW WE HAD A LOT OF CLARIFICATION, SO I THINK IT WAS APPROPRIATE FOR US TO GET ALL OF THOSE, UH, QUESTIONS ANSWERED. UH, AS PART OF THE PUBLIC HEARING, ARE THERE ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS OR BURNING ISSUES THAT WE SHOULD ASK OF THE APPLICANT OR CLARIFICATIONS FROM STAFF BEFORE WE CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING? IF, IF I COULD ASK ONE CLARIFICATION FROM STAFF TO GIVE, UH, SOME MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION SOME CONFIDENCE THAT, STOP ME IF I'M SAYING TOO MUCH, BUT THERE WAS A SIMILAR CASE THAT WAS DECONSTRUCTION RECONSTRUCTION THAT WAS, UM, FURTHER DEVELOPMENT WAS CONTINGENT UPON THAT THAT DID NOT HAPPEN AS WAS EXPECTED. AND THAT PROPERTY IS EFFECTIVELY LEAD AND HOWEVER IT HAPPENED THROUGH THE MANAGEMENT OF THAT PROCESS IS NOW EFFECTIVELY TIED UP. AND SO IT IS IN THE DEVELOPER, THE OWNER AND FEATURE DEVELOPER'S BEST INTEREST THAT THEY DO WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO SAY. I CAN'T SAY EXACTLY HOW THAT WENT DOWN OR, OR HOW IT'S TIED UP NOW, BUT IS, IS THAT AN ACCURATE REPRESENTATION OF A VERY SIMILAR CASE WHOSE NAMES I WON'T MENTION THAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST THREE YEARS? I BELIEVE YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SPEAKING OF. YES, COMMISSIONER. I THINK THAT IS ACCURATE. OKAY. OKAY. , THANK YOU FOR THAT CLARIFICATION. AND I DON'T, ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR CLARIFICATIONS BEFORE WE CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING? NO, I JUST DON'T, I I DON'T THINK STAFF HAS GIVEN ME A COMPELLING REASON WHY THAT LANGUAGE NEEDS TO BE THERE. BUT WITH THAT, I WILL MAKE A MOTION TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. OKAY. COMMISSIONER ROCHE, IS THERE A SECOND? COMMISSIONER ACTON. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? RAISE YOUR HAND, PLEASE. ALL RIGHT. I SEE IT'S UNANIMOUS, THE COMMISSION. UH, WE ARE AVAILABLE FOR A MOTION. COMMISSIONER LAROCHE, DID YOU WANT TO PROPOSE? WELL, I'M GONNA PROPOSE TO, UH, RECOMMEND THAT WE APPROVE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION, UH, WITH THE REVISED LANGUAGE OF REMOVING DECONSTRUCTION AND RECONSTRUCTION IN BULLET TWO. OKAY. IS THERE A SECOND? ALL SET. COMMISSIONER ACTON. OKAY. WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK TO YOUR MOTION? NO, I, I'VE BEEN ON THIS DI AND NOT NEARLY AS LONG AS COMMISSIONER COOK, BUT BOTH HE AND I EXPERIENCED THE SAME THING. AND I KNOW IT'S, IT'S VERY PLAUSIBLE, REALISTIC, UH, WE MOVE HOMES, BUILDINGS ALL THE TIME. IT IS, IT IS PLAUSIBLE TO MOVE AND RELOCATE THE WALL WITHOUT DECONSTRUCT AND RECONSTRUCT. AND SO I THINK THAT THE APPLICANT HAS AGREED WITH THAT PREMISE. THEY STILL HAVE HURDLES TO GO THROUGH, AND I ACKNOWLEDGE THAT, BUT THEY DID AGREE WITH ME TO REVISE THAT LANGUAGE THAT WAS ACCEPTABLE TO THEM. AND SO I THINK IT'S AN APPROPRIATE MOTION. OKAY. COMMISSIONER ACTON? UH, NO ADDITIONAL COMMENT. I, UH, SAME SENTIMENTS AS, UH, COMMISSIONER LAROCHE. OKAY. COMMISSIONERS, THE FLOOR IS OPEN TO DISCUSSION, DISCUSSION OF THE [03:20:01] MOTION TO APPROVE WITH THE, UH, ADU ADJUSTED LANGUAGE. UM, I JUST WANTED TO SPEAK TO THE, I'M, I'M GONNA SUPPORT THE MOTION, AND I WANTED TO SPEAK TO THE ACTUAL MOTION OF, UM, YOU KNOW, THE STATEMENT WAS MADE THAT WE SHOULDN'T CONSIDER THE FINANCIAL CONDITION OF A ISD. AND I, I AGREE WITH THAT. UM, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES ECONOMIC FEASIBILITY COMES AN ISSUE WHETHER WE'RE GONNA DEMOLISH OR REUS A BUILDING AS A LANDMARK OR SOME OTHER CASE. I ALSO AGREE THAT, UH, WE'RE NOT HERE TO, UH, ADDRESS ISSUES OF ZONING OR COMPATIBILITY, WHICH I THINK A LOT OF, A LOT OF THE DISCUSSION WAS HERE ABOUT, WE'RE HERE SPECIFICALLY TO TALK ABOUT, UH, HISTORIC VALUE AND WHEN THE CITY SHOULD EXERCISE ITS AUTHORITY TO REQUIRE A PROPERTY OWNER TO MAINTAIN THEIR PROPERTY AS A LANDMARK, WHICH IS, AS WE ALL KNOW, A VERY, VERY HIGH STANDARD. UM, I JUST THINK IT NEEDS TO BE MENTIONED. UH, THE REC THE STAFF HAD RECOMMENDED COMMUNITY VALUE AS ONE POTENTIAL, UH, CRITERIA. UH, WE HAVE A LOT OF SCHOOLS THAT ARE GONNA BE UP FOR, UH, POTENTIAL REDEVELOPMENT IN THE FUTURE. AND, UM, THIS IS A POTENTIAL PRECEDENT SETTING DECISION. AND I THINK THE FINDINGS OF FACTS SHOULD BE IN THERE. UH, I THINK ALL SMALL, UH, SCHOOL SCALE SCHOOLS WITHIN THESE NEIGHBORHOODS OF THE PERIODS IN THE FORTIES AND FIFTIES HAD COMMUNITY VALUE WHEN THEY WERE SCHOOLS. JUST AS MANY CHURCHES THAT WE SEE HAD COMMUNITY VALUE WHEN THERE WERE CHURCHES. I THINK THE QUESTION IS, DO THEY PROVIDE COMMUNITY VALUE, UH, ONGOING? UM, AS, AND THAT'S JUST A VERY, VERY BIG QUESTION. UH, I THINK IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE THAT, UM, THE ISSUE OF THE, THE ARCHITECTURAL DEVELOPMENT OF OF SCHOOLS WAS ONE, I HAD THE SEEN FOR THE FIRST TIME THIS MONTH AND WAS AN INTERESTING ONE TO HAVE A HISTORICAL ASSOCIATION. I THINK PRESERVING THE FRONT FACADE, ALTHOUGH IT'S NOT THE SOUTH FACADE, DOES MAINTAIN A SECTION OF THAT BANDED WINDOW, WHICH IS DISCUSSED. AND SO IN TERMS OF THE ONE HISTORICAL ASSOCIATION OF ITS DEVELOPMENT IN THE, UH, PATTERNS OF, UH, DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION OF SCHOOLS IN THE MID-CENTURY WOULD BE PRESERVED UNDER THIS, UM, UNDER THIS COMPROMISE. THE, THE LOW SLUNG PARK-LIKE, UM, CAMPUS, UH, THAT'S THE CULTURAL LANDSCAPE THAT'S GETTING INTO BIGGER ISSUES. AND I JUST DON'T THINK IT RISES TO THE LEVEL OF INITIATING OR RECOMMENDING, UH, LANDMARK STATUS, UM, WHICH IS OUR ONLY TRUE CHOICE TO, UH, DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN ACCEPT THIS, UM, THIS COMPROMISE. AND I, I JUST DON'T THINK I COULD VOTE FOR IT AS RISING TO THAT BAR. AND I'M, I'M CERTAIN THAT PLANNING COMMISSION AND COUNCIL WOULD NOT VOTE FOR THAT BAR. SO, UM, I THINK THIS COMPROMISE IS THE BEST WE CAN DO AT THIS POINT. OKAY. ANY OTHER COMMENTS? UM, I WAS JUST GONNA SAY THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THIS HAS BEEN A VERY INTERESTING DISCUSSION AND THE, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S A VERY COMPLICATED CASE, UM, THAT THAT'S BEFORE US. YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT, UM, YOU KNOW, STAKEHOLDERS AND A LOT OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE WHO FEEL VERY, VERY STRONGLY ABOUT THIS CASE. AND, UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE, THE HISTORY OF THIS, OF THIS SITE IS PARTICULARLY, UM, YOU KNOW, I, I, IT'S, IT'S HARD TO DISPUTE, LIKE BOTH AS THE HISTORY TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND ALSO, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE BROADER HISTORICAL ASSOCIATIONS THAT WE LEARNED ABOUT IN OUR BACKUP. UM, I WOULD LOVE, YOU KNOW, TO, TO SEE, YOU KNOW, NOT NECESSARILY AS A, SOMETHING TO REQUIRE, BUT JUST, YOU KNOW, UM, FOR FUTURE RESIDENTS WHO ARE CURIOUS ABOUT THIS SITE'S HISTORY, TO BE ABLE TO CONNECT WITH THAT, UH, AND INTERPRET THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, WHENEVER PEOPLE DO END UP MOVING INTO THIS PROPERTY, UM, BECAUSE I THINK, YOU KNOW, THAT'S CONNECTING WITH OUR HISTORY IN THE CITY IS REALLY JUST SO IMPORTANT, AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE ALL HERE. BUT THAT'S JUST, I THINK FOR ME, UM, YOU KNOW, GROWING UP IN THE CITY, THERE WERE A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR, EVEN IF A, A BUILDING HAD NOT BEEN PRESERVED. UM, YOU KNOW, I, I GREW UP, UM, YOU KNOW, THE YOUNGEST MEMBER OF THE COMMISSION BY A DECENT AMOUNT, AND I GREW UP IN AN ERA WHEN WE'D SEEN SOME OF THE FACADE PRESERVATION IN DOWNTOWN THAT HAS HAPPENED ALREADY, GO, HAD HAD ALREADY GONE UP. AND BEING ABLE TO SORT OF JUXTAPOSE THE HISTORY OF THE CITY ALONGSIDE, UM, THE WAY THAT THE CITY IS GROWING AND CHANGING OVER TIME, UM, REALLY LEFT AN IMPRESSION ON ME. UM, AND I REALLY HOPE THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS, UH, PROPOSAL, UM, CAN DO THE SAME FOR SOMEONE MAYBE WHO GROWS UP IN THIS NEW BUILDING OR IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, SO I'M JUST, I'M REALLY GRATEFUL TO SEE THAT, UM, THERE'S ANY SORT OF [03:25:01] PRESERVATION THAT'S ABLE TO HAPPEN AT ALL. YOU KNOW, I SHARE THE, THE CONCERNS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, MAKING SURE THAT THAT GETS, UH, FOLLOWED THROUGH ON. BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, I JUST THINK THAT THERE'S REALLY INTERESTING AND EXCITING OPPORTUNITIES FOR, UM, HISTORICAL INTERPRETATION LIKE MOVING FORWARD. UM, SO THAT'S, THAT'S REALLY ALL I HAVE TO SAY. BUT, UM, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THIS, THE GRAVITY OF THIS CASE IS NOT LOST ON ME. I DON'T THINK IT'S LOST ON THE COMMISSION FOR WHAT IT MEANS FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, WHAT IT MEANS FOR A ISD IN THIS PARTICULAR MOMENT, OBVIOUSLY THAT A LOT OF THE GREATER ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN BROUGHT UP ARE OUTSIDE OF OUR JURISDICTION. BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S, UM, THERE'S A LOT GOING ON WITH THIS CASE, AND I AGREE THAT THIS DOES SET IMPORTANT PRECEDENT FOR, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT THE OTHER SORT OF, UM, SITUATIONS THAT THIS BUDGET CRISIS AT A A SD HAS, HAS FORCED THEM INTO. UM, SO YOU KNOW, THE POSSIBILITY THAT WITH FUTURE PROJECTS, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THERE WILL BE OPPORTUNITIES FOR A FULL BUILDING TO BE PRESERVED OR ADAPTIVE REUSE IN, UM, YOU KNOW, A WAY THAT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE POSSIBLE WITH THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY. SO, UM, YOU KNOW, AND THEN MAYBE WE'LL BE SEEING SOME OF THOSE CASES HERE AT THIS COMMISSION, BUT, UM, I'M GONNA BE SUPPORTING THIS MOTION. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? UM, LET, LET ME JUST ADD A AGAIN, MAYBE FOR CLARIFICATION PURPOSES, PARTICULARLY IF ANYBODY'S BEEN WATCHING THIS. IT MAY SEEM VERY COMPLICATED, BUT ACTUALLY IT'S PRETTY SIMPLE. UH, BY STATUTE, THIS IS IN FRONT OF US BECAUSE YOU HAVE AN OLDER BUILDING THAT IS REQUESTING A DEMOLITION, A PARTIAL DEMOLITION, BUT A DEMOLITION REQUEST OF THE CITY OF AUSTIN BECAUSE OF ITS STATUS. THEN IT COMES TO US FOR REVIEW. UNDER CIRCUMSTANCES LIKE THIS, WE HAVE ONE BITE AT THE APPLE, WHICH IS TO GO AHEAD AND MAKE A HISTORIC, UH, UH, DESIGNATION OUT OF THIS. AT LEAST RECOMMEND THAT TO THE CITY COUNCIL. UH, FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS, AS WE'VE INDICATED, THAT'S NOT ANYTHING WE'RE SUPPORTING, OR NO ONE HAS INITIATED THAT AS THE BEST OPTION. UH, SO THEN WE HAVE, WHEN THESE CASES COME BEFORE US, OTHER ALTERNATIVES, UH, WE COULD LET NOTHING HAPPEN AT ALL IN TIME OUT. AND WE SAY NOTHING ELSE. THE BUILDING IS GONE AND WE HAVE NO RECORD OF IT. WE CAN APPROVE A DEMOLITION. AND AS STAFF HAS POINTED OUT, WE HAVE A, A, A, A GOOD, UH, TRACK RECORD WITH REQUIRING FULL DOCUMENTATION BEFORE THAT CAN BE ISSUED. UH, THIS COMMISSION, I, I HAVE TO SAY, HAS USED ITS PURVIEW AND IN THIS CASE HAS ENGAGED WITH, UH, THE ENTITIES WHO ARE HERE AT THE TABLE AND STAFF HAS PUT IN A LOT OF TIME, UH, TRYING TO FILL IN THAT MIDDLE GROUND. WHAT WITH MAYBE SHORT OF THE TWO EXTREMES, COMPLETE LOSS, FULL HISTORIC PRESERVATION, WHAT COULD BE DONE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE STILL HAVE SOME LEGACY INTACT FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS? UH, WE'VE HAD GROUPS THAT COME TO THE TABLE AND THINK THEY'RE HELPING US OUT BY SAYING, WELL, WE'LL PUT A PLAQUE UP. UH, THE PLAQUE DOESN'T HELP US MUCH, THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT DOESN'T CONVEY VERY MUCH HISTORY, BUT I DO THINK THIS IS BETTER THAN A PLAQUE. UH, OBVIOUSLY OUR PREFERENCE ALWAYS WOULD BE TO KEEP THE BUILDING OR A LARGE PORTION INTACT. SHORT OF THAT, THAT LARGE PORTION STAYING IN ITS ORIGINAL LOCATION, NOW WE'RE SORT OF BACK AGAINST THE WALL. THIS IS SORT OF LIKE, UH, IT'S, IT'S TRULY IS SORT OF LAST RESORT, BUT IT IS HERE BECAUSE WE HAVE APPLICANTS WHO ARE WILLING TO PUT THAT ON THE TABLE. WE HAVE STAFF WHO'S HELPED US UNDERSTAND WHAT THE PARAMETERS WE ACTUALLY CAN ENTER INTO IN THIS AGREEMENT, AND YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH GUARANTEE WE'LL HAVE OUT OF IT. UH, IT'S NOT THE BEST SYSTEM. IT IS SORT OF COMPLICATED BY THE TIME WE GET INTO THIS IN-BETWEEN ZONE, BUT IT IS OUR PURVIEW TO SEE IF WE CAN MAXIMIZE THIS MOMENT, UH, WHERE ALL WE HAVE OTHERWISE IS LOSING EVERYTHING, UH, ALL RECORD, ALL DOCUMENTATION IN ALL BUILDING. SO IN THAT, IN, IN, IN, IN COMPARISON TO THAT OPTION, I THINK THIS IS A BETTER OPTION AND I THINK IT'S BEEN WORTH THE EFFORT. SO I DEFINITELY WILL SUPPORT THE MOTION AS WELL. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE. I'LL CALL THE QUESTION. WE HAVE A MOTION TO SUPPORT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION WITH THE DELETION OF THE SPECIFIC REFERENCE TO DECONSTRUCTION AND RECONSTRUCTION, BUT MENTIONING SPECIFICALLY THAT THE FACADE [03:30:01] RELOCATION WILL COMPLY WITH THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE GUIDANCE, WHICH WE UNDERSTAND DOES INCLUDE, UH, ELEMENTS FOR THOSE VERY THINGS. SO THAT IS WHAT IS ON THE MOTION. THAT IS THE MOTION AS IT'S BEEN STATED AND SECONDED. UH, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE INDICATE BY RAISING YOUR HAND. I SEE 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. UH, I SEE IT'S UNANIMOUS. ALRIGHT, THE MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH. THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR EFFORTS. UH, THESE ARE, LIKE I SAID, NEVER EASY, BUT IT REALLY BOILS DOWN TO HOW DO WE MAKE THE MOST OF WHAT WE'VE GOT? AND WE HAVE, BY THE WAY, ANOTHER DISCUSSION CASE, WHICH DOES REQUIRE US TO BE, UH, ANOTHER TWO. ANOTHER TWO, YES. BUT THE NEXT ONE COMING UP, [16. DA-2025-141132 – 906 W. 22nd St. ] UH, ITEM NUMBER 16, 9 0 6 WEST 22ND STREET. THANK YOU, CHAIR. UH, THIS IS A PROPOSAL AT 9 0 6 WEST 22ND STREET TO DEMOLISH CIRCA 1927 BUILDING. UH, THE PROPERTY AT 9 0 6 WEST 22ND STREET IS IN THE WEST CAMPUS NEIGHBORHOOD, UM, IS A TWO STORY INTACT FULL VICTORIAN HOUSE WITH AN L-SHAPED PLAN. IT FEATURES A FRONT PORCH OF THE RIGHT HALF OF THE FRONT FACADE, WHICH IS RECESSED UNDER THE SECOND FLOOR, AND SUPPORTED BY THREE WOOD POSTS. THE HOUSE IS BUILT ON PIERS AND SITS A FEW FEET ABOVE GRADE AT THE LEFT, ONE LEG OF THE AL PROJECTS TOWARD THE STREET, AND IS COVERED WITH A STEEP PITCH GABLE, WHICH CREATES ENOUGH HEIGHT TO HOUSE LIVING SPACE WITHIN. UH, THERE APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN ALTERATIONS MADE TO THE ORIGINAL ROOF ABOVE THE PORCH TO CREATE MORE LIVING SPACE, WHICH IS PERMITTED IN 1948. IT IS UNKNOWN HOW MUCH ALTERATION THE ORIGINAL ROOF TOOK PLACE AT THAT TIME. THE HOUSE WAS ORIGINALLY OWNED BY JESSE AND EMILY HORNSBY, WHO WERE FARMERS, EITHER AT THIS ADDRESS OR FURTHER OUT FROM AUSTIN, MAKING THIS POSSIBLY A SECOND PROPERTY CLOSER TO THE CITY. JESSE HORNSBY PASSED AWAY IN 1933 WITH THE FUNERAL SERVICES TAKING PLACE AT THE PROPERTY FOR A SHORT TIME AFTER THE HOUSE WAS VACANT, BUT BOTH WAS PURCHASED AROUND 1941 BY DAVID AND IRENE CRENSHAW AT TIME OF PURCHASE. DAVID CRENSHAW WAS EMPLOYED AS A CLERK FOR THE NEXT FEW YEARS THROUGH THE 1950S, AND POSSIBLY FURTHER MADE THEIR LIVING RENTING OUT ROOMS TO THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS STUDENTS. THE ADDRESS IS CONNECTED WITH NUMEROUS NAMES AND PEER PERIODICALS FROM, UH, THE TIME, TYPICALLY STUDENTS AND OTHER SHORT TERM RENTERS. UH, IT WAS DURING THIS TIME THAT THE CON CONVERSION OF THE SECOND FLOOR INTO ADDITIONAL LIVING QUARTERS OCCURRED. THE 2020 NORTH CENTRAL AUSTIN HISTORIC RESOURCE SURVEY LISTS THE PROPERTY AS INDIVIDUALLY ELIGIBLE FOR THE NATIONAL REGISTER OF HISTORIC PLACES, AS WELL AS ELIGIBLE FOR A CITY OF AUSTIN. LANDMARK PROPERTIES MUST MEET TWO CRITERIA FOR LANDMARK DESIGNATION. UH, STAFF HAS EVALUATED THE, UH, PROPERTY AND DETERMINED THAT IT MAY MEET TWO CRITERIA FOR LANDMARK DESIGNATION, ONE BEING ARCHITECTURE, UH, AS AN EXAMPLE OF FOR FOLK VICTORIAN ARCHITECTURE, EVEN WITH THE 1948 ADDITION, UH, ALTERATIONS, UH, AND FOR COMMUNITY VALUE AS A EARLY USE OF A OWNER OCCUPIED RENTAL HOUSE FOR STUDENT HOUSING IN THIS AREA OF AUSTIN. STAFF RECOMMENDATION, THEREFORE, IS TO CONSIDER WHETHER THE PROPERTY MEETS TWO CRITERIA FOR ELIGIBILITY AS A CITY OF AUSTIN LANDMARK FOR ARCHITECTURE AND COMMUNITY VALUE. SHOULD THE COMMISSION FIND THE TWO THAT THE TWO CRITERIA ARE MET, INITIATE HISTORIC ZONING, OTHERWISE ENCOURAGE REHABILITATION AND ADAPTIVE REUSE, RELOCATION OR DECONSTRUCTION AND SALVAGE OR DEMOLITION, BUT APPROVE THE DEMOLITION PERMIT APPLICATION UPON COMPLETION OF A CITY OF AUSTIN DOCUMENTATION PACKAGE. ADDITIONAL NOTE IS THAT THIS APPLICATION, 75 DAY REVIEW PERIOD TIMES OUT ON FEBRUARY 16TH, 2026, MAKING THE FEBRUARY UH, HLC MEETING THE FINAL OPPORTUNITY FOR THE COMMISSION TO ACT. IF IT IS DETERMINED THAT TWO LANDMARK LANDMARK CRITERIA ARE MET AND HISTORIC DE DESIGNATION IS PURSUED, THAT PROCESS MUST BE INITIATED AT THIS MEETING SO THAT A STAFF REPORT AND RECOMMENDATION CAN BE VOTED ON BEFORE THE TIMEOUT DATE. ALTERNATIVELY, IF THIS APPLICATION IS APPROVED AND RELEASED, UH, AT THIS OR AT FEBRUARY'S MEETING A REQUIREMENT FOR A CITY OF AUSTIN DOCUMENTA DOCUMENTATION PACKAGE MAY BE MADE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS OF STAFF? ALRIGHT, WE READY TO HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT? WE HAD, UH, PROPOSED AND HAD ANOTHER NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION JOIN WITH UNIVERSITY AREA PARTNERS AND ASK FOR A POST. YES. I'M MIKE MCCOLLUM, UNIVERSITY AREA PARTNERS. UH, WE HAD ASKED, AND CASWELL HEIGHTS WAS TRYING TO BE HERE TONIGHT. THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO BE HERE, UH, BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT, THEY WERE TOLD THAT THEY WERE DRIVING AND WERE TOLD THAT THEY MISSED A 6:00 PM DEADLINE FOR SIGNING UP. AND SO THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO ATTEND THE MEETING. UH, I DO HAVE THEIR LETTER. YOU DO HAVE THEIR LETTER IN YOUR BACKUP. WE HAVE OUR, WE HAVE OUR LETTER THAT WE, UH, MADE, UH, REQUEST AS WE WERE TOLD BY STAFF THAT THE, WE STILL HAD OUR POSTPONEMENT REQUEST, UH, THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION AVAILABLE, UH, DUE TO THE FACT THAT, UH, THE COMMISSION MADE THE MOTION FOR DEMOLITION AND NOT IN CONSIDERATION OF THE UNIVERSITY AREA PARTNERS. GIVEN THIS CONFUSION AND THE SITUATION, [03:35:01] THE STANDING OF WHERE YOU ARE TONIGHT WITH NOT HAVING ANY OPTIONS REALLY TO GO FORWARD WITH GRANTING A POSTPONEMENT TO ALLOW US TO DISCUSS, THE ONLY THING THAT I WOULD ASK IS THAT YOU INSTRUCT AND ASK THE APPLICANT TO MEET WITH THOSE TWO NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATIONS PRIOR TO YOUR FEBRUARY MEETING SO WE COULD MAKE SOME RECOMMENDATIONS PERHAPS THAT WOULD AFFECT THE, UH, UH, SITUATION OF HOW THEY WOULD DO IT. UH, UNIVERSITY AREA PARTNERS HAS BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL IN MEETING WITH NEIGHBORHOOD WITH DEVELOPERS. WE'VE GOT THE POMPEI CLARK COOK HOUSE, THE, UH, KENNY HOUSE, AND THE JOSEPH, UM, AND THE FONTAINE HOUSE, ALL HISTORIC BUILDINGS OR OUR NOW HISTORIC BUILDINGS THAT WERE PRESERVED IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE REDEVELOPMENT UNDER THE UNIVERSITY NEIGHBORHOOD OVERLAY PROCESS. THAT BEING SAID, UH, WE WILL HOPE THAT YOU WILL DO THAT AND IF THE, THE APPLICANT WILL AGREE TO THAT, WE WILL SHORTEN THIS PROCESS A WHOLE LOT AND NOT TRY TO GO THROUGH A PRESENTATION. SO YOU HAVE EVERYTHING YOU NEED IN YOUR BACKUP. THANK YOU, MR. MCCONE. UH, THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS, BUT I THINK WE'VE GOT OUT OF SEQUENCE. YES, WE DO. UH, I THINK WE MISUNDERSTOOD. UH, DO WE HAVE THE APPLICANT HERE? WE DO. SO, UH, WE APPRECIATE YOUR, UH, SPEAKING, UH, IN OPPOSITION, BUT, UH, THAT WAS AN ERROR AND WE APOLOGIZE, BUT, UH, LET'S GO AHEAD AND MAKE SURE THE APPLICANT HAS A CHANCE TO GIVE THEIR PRESENTATION. YEAH, I'M GOING HOME. OKAY. YEAH, THERE'S NO, OKAY. HELLO COMMISSIONERS AGAIN. OUR, OUR APOLOGIES. NO, NO PROBLEM. UM, I'M LEAH BOJO WITH RENER GROUP HERE ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT. UM, SO I, UH, I, I GAVE A PRESENTATION AT YOUR DECEMBER MEETING, AS I'M SURE YOU RECALL. I'M HAPPY TO GO THROUGH IT AGAIN WITH YOU, I THINK, UM, IF YOU'D LIKE, BUT I'D ALSO, I KNOW EVERYONE'S PROBABLY GETTING A LITTLE TIRED AND HUNGRY. UM, SO WHAT I'LL JUST SUMMARIZE IS SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, IN DECEMBER, UM, WE CAME TO YOU REQUESTING THE DEMO DEMOLITION OF THE SITE. WE DON'T BELIEVE THAT IT MEETS THE, UM, HISTORIC CRITERIA. UM, MR. MCCONE ON BEHALF OF, I BELIEVE UAP, UM, REQUESTED A POSTPONEMENT, WHICH WAS GRANTED. UM, WE REACHED OUT TO UAP AND TO MR. MCCONE. UM, WE DID NOT GET A RESPONSE. WE DID COME TO THE ARC MEETING, UM, AND DISCUSS THE CASE IN A LITTLE BIT MORE DEPTH WITH A FEW OF YOU, WHICH WAS, WHICH WAS HELPFUL. UM, I DID TALK TO MR. MCCONE EARLIER IN THE WEEK, AND HE LET ME KNOW THAT HE WAS GONNA BE REQUESTING A POSTPONEMENT AGAIN TO TRY TO MEET AGAIN. UM, AND I LET HIM KNOW, AS I'LL LET YOU KNOW HERE, PROBABLY NOT SURPRISINGLY, THAT WE WOULD OPPOSE THAT. UM, ANOTHER POSTPONEMENT. UM, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T BELIEVE THAT THIS, THIS SITE, THIS STRUCTURE, UM, MEETS THE LEVEL OF, UH, TO QUALIFY FOR HISTORIC DESIGNATION. UM, WE ARE HAPPY TO CONTINUE TO TALK WITH, UM, UAP AND OTHER NEIGHBORS ABOUT THE PROJECT. BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE DEMOLITION PERMIT WILL HAVE TO BE RELEASED ON FEBRUARY 16TH, AS AS I BELIEVE CALLAN SAID. AND SO WE WOULD REQUEST THAT YOU, UM, IF YOU RELEASE IT TONIGHT, THEN WE CAN GIVE YOU THE DOCUMENTATION PACKAGE AND, YOU KNOW, GO THROUGH THE REGULAR, THE REGULAR ITEMS. AND THAT WOULD BE OUR REQUEST, PLEASE. OKAY. AND I'M ABLE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. UH, ANY QUESTIONS OF THE APPLICANT? ARE THERE OTHER SPEAKERS, SINCE WE SEEM TO ALL BE FLUMMOXED HERE? UH, WE HAVE ANOTHER SPEAKER IN OPPOSITION, ROWENA DASH, BUT OKAY. ROWINA IS, IS ROWINA DASH HERE? WE HAVE, WE HAVE NO OTHER SPEAKERS IN FAVOR THOUGH, I WILL SAY. OKAY. IS THERE ANY OTHER O IN OPPOSITION OTHER THAN ROWENA DASH? WE HAD MIKE MCCONE, BUT HE HAS ALREADY SPOKEN. OKAY. AND COULD WE CALL MS. DASH HERE? I THINK SHE LEFT. OKAY. BECAUSE IT WAS SO, UH, OBVIOUSLY WE HAD, WE WERE OUT OF ORDER. BUT, UH, MS. BOJO, IF THERE'S ANY REBUTTAL THAT YOU FEEL IS NECESSARY, WE CERTAINLY GIVE YOU THAT PRIVILEGE. SURE. NO, I THINK I'M OKAY. THANK YOU. I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE, OF COURSE. OKAY. UM, COMMISSIONERS, ANY QUESTIONS? UH, MS. MCCO SEEMS TO HAVE NO LONGER BE HERE, SO WE CAN'T ASK HIM. HE SAID HE WAS LEAVING. UM, I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. MR. ROCHE. IS THERE A SECOND? MR. ACTON? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE INDICATE BY RAISING YOUR HAND AND I SEE IT AS UNANIMOUS. ALL RIGHT. UH, COMMISSIONERS, WHAT ACTION WOULD YOU CHOOSE TO TAKE? WE CAN, AND JUST LAY THEM ALL OUT. WE CAN INITIATE HISTORIC ZONING THAT WOULD THEN REQUIRE STAFF DO RESEARCH, AND THEN WE WOULD HAVE A VOTE ON WHETHER OR NOT TO GO FORWARD WITH IT AT THE NEXT MEETING. UH, I ENCOURAGE YOU TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU FELT LIKE THERE WAS A GOOD CHANCE THAT WOULD HAPPEN. UH, WE COULD APPROVE THE REQUEST TONIGHT. UH, AND I GUESS WE HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT THAT THEY'D STILL BE WILLING TO MEET WITH UNIVERSITY AREA PARTNERS, [03:40:01] OR WE COULD, UH, HAVE THE REQUEST AS MR. MCCOMB STEAD, UH, POSTPONING, UH, THEY'LL RECOGNIZE THAT, UH, WHATEVER ADJUSTMENTS MIGHT BE TAKING PLACE, WE WOULD, AT OUR NEXT MEETING NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO A HISTORIC ZONING. IT WOULD JUST NOT BE ENOUGH TIME MOTION TO RELEASE THE DEMOLITION, UH, AS PER STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS. OKAY. IS THERE A SECOND? UH, COMMISSIONER TUCCI. UH, COMMISSIONER M WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK TO YOUR MOTION? UM, I THINK REGARDLESS OF TIMING, IT, IT JUST DOESN'T APPEAR THAT THIS IS GONNA MEET THE, UH, BARRIER OF HISTORIC ZONING AND WE ARE KIND OF RUNNING OUT TIME ON IT. SO, UM, BECAUSE OF THAT, I THINK WE SHOULD JUST RELEASE A DEMOLITION PERMIT TONIGHT. COMMISSIONER UCCI? YEAH, DITTO. UM, ALSO, YOU KNOW, I KNOW WE POSTPONED THE FIRST TIME, SO, UH, THAT BOTH PARTIES CAN MEET, UM, YOU KNOW, I'M BLANKING ON HIS NAME, BUT THE OPPOSITION AND, UH, HAVING, I GUESS, MISSED THAT OPPORTUNITY, I'M NOT QUITE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, HE WOULD MEET THE SECOND TIME TOO IF WE WERE TO POSTPONE AGAIN. SO I THINK WE JUST RELEASED THE, UH, DEMOLITION PERMIT. OKAY. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? COMMISSIONER CROW. NOW I WANTED TO NOTE, UM, MS. BOJO HAD COME TO THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE MEETING AND POINTED OUT THAT THESE THREE LOTS ARE INTENDED FOR A TOWER. UM, AND THE LOT IN QUESTION IS RIGHT IN THE CENTER IN A VERY SMALL AREA. UH, THIS IS ONE OF THE AREAS LIKE RAINY STREET, THAT'S RICH IN HISTORIC PROPERTIES, UM, THAT IS ALSO, UH, VERY STRATEGIC FOR DENSE DEVELOPMENT. AND SO, UM, IT'S ROCKING A HARD PLACE AND I JUST DIDN'T THINK THERE WAS ANY, WE, I MENTIONED THE KENNY HOUSE THAT, UH, MR. MCCONE HAD WORKED WITH US ON TO BUILD A TOWER NEXT TO AND INCORPORATE IT. THERE WAS A GREAT AMENITY AND, UM, MS. BOGGIO POINTED OUT IT WAS ALREADY A LANDMARK AND COULDN'T BE TORN DOWN. AND, UH, IT WAS ALSO ON THE CORNER AND NOT IN THE MIDDLE. AND THE PROPERTY WAS, UH, I THINK A HALF BLOCK INSTEAD OF, UH, JUST THREE LOTS. AND SO, UH, JUST A VERY TIGHT CORNER THAT WE'RE IN THIS VERY DIFFICULT POSITION. I, WE'LL ALSO NOTE ON THE SURVEY WAS RECOMMENDED AS A, UH, POTENTIAL HISTORIC LANDMARK. I THINK IF AN OWNER WANTED TO DO THAT, THE CASE COULD BE MADE IF THE OWNER WAS, WAS WILLING TO DO THAT. UH, I THINK, UH, IN THE FACE OF THE SUPER MAJORITY AGAINST OWNER'S WISHES THAT THE LACK OF HISTORIC ASSOCIATIONS IN PARTICULAR AND ONLY COMMUNITY VALUE IN TERMS OF IT, IT IS, UM, FAIRLY UNIQUE AND GROWING MORE UNIQUE AS AS THEY GO. UH, BUT I JUST DON'T THINK THAT THAT JUSTIFIED, UH, SENDING IT UP. SO, UH, I WILL BE SUPPORTING THE MOTION. OKAY. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? RIGHT. HEARING NONE, I'LL CALL THE QUESTION. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION, PLEASE INDICATE BY RAISING YOUR HAND. AND I SEE THAT THAT PASSES UNANIMOUSLY. OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU COMMISSIONERS. ALRIGHT, AND NOW [17. PR-2025-138065 – 907 E. 13th St. ] WE ARE AT THE LAST CASE, , ITEM NUMBER 17, UH, 9 0 7 EAST 13TH STREET. UH, CHAIRMAN, MAY I BE PROACTIVE AND REALISTIC AND MOVE THAT WE EXTEND THE MEETING UNTIL 10 30 AT THE LATEST? I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION IF THERE'S A SECOND. SECOND. COMMISSIONER ACTON. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE INDICATE BY RAISING YOUR HAND AND I SEE ONE OPPOSED OR ABSTAIN OPPOSED ANYTHING AFTER 10. OKAY, SO IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO GO THAT LONG. WE JUST, WE'VE EXTENDED IT. UH, THE VOTE BY THE WAY, DID CARRY WITH ONE ONE OBJECTION. SO, UH, IN THE EVENT THAT WE NEED IT, WE WILL BE ABLE TO GET PAST 10 O'CLOCK. ALRIGHT. ALRIGHT, Y'ALL, LAST ONE. ITEM 17 AT 9 0 7 EAST 13TH STREET IS A PROPOSAL TO DEMOLISH A HOUSE CONSTRUCTED BETWEEN 1873 AND 1884. UM, THIS IS THE SECOND TIME Y'ALL HAVE HEARD THIS CASE. UM, AND OUR FEBRUARY MEETING WILL BE THE LAST MEETING AT WHICH IT CAN BE HEARD. UM, SO THIS IS THE LAST MEETING THAT WE HAVE. UM, IF THE COMMISSION CHOOSES TO INITIATE A STORE ZONING, UM, THIS IS A ONE STORY CENTER PASSAGE, NATIONAL FOLK STYLE BUILDING WITH HORIZONTAL WOOD SIDING, A PARTIAL WOOD FRONT PORCH SUPPORTED BY TURNED POSTS, A SIDE GD ROOF PLAID WITH STANDING SCENE METAL AND DOUBLE HUNG WOOD WINDOWS. UM, THE FRONT DOOR HAS BEEN REPLACED, BUT ITS TRIM AND THE TRANSOM ABOVE THE WINDOW REMAINS. THIS HOUSE IS ORIGINALLY ADDRESSED AS 9 0 7 EAST PEACH STREET AND IT WAS BUILT BETWEEN 1873 AND 1885 BY JULIUS NITSCHKE NITSCHKE AND HIS FAMILY IMMIGRATED FROM SSON NEW GERMANY IN 1855 AND HE AND HIS FOUR BROTHERS OWNED AND OPERATED NITCH BROTHERS, CABINET MAKERS ON CONGRESS AVENUE. HE MARRIED LOUISA PHILLIPS IN 1871 AND HE WORKED AS A CARPENTER, CABINET MAKER AND CARPET LAYER [03:45:01] UNTIL HIS DEATH IN 1910. HIS SON JAYKE JR. ALSO WORKED AS A CARPENTER AND DABBLED IN CAR REPAIR AND RAILROAD WORK BEFORE BECOMING A CAREER FIREMAN. HE SOLD 9 0 7 EAST 13TH STREET TO THE GOYS FAMILY BETWEEN 1912 AND 1920. ELIZA GOINES, FORMERLY OF MAYNARD LIVED IN THE HOME UNTIL HER DEATH IN 1956. SHE WORKED AS A COOK AND AS A LARIS, WHILE ALSO RENTING OUT ROOMS. HER CHILDREN AND THEIR SPOUSES LIVED WITH HER INTERMITTENTLY THROUGHOUT THE EARLIEST 20TH CENTURY. AFTER HER DEATH, HER DAUGHTER ROXY TUCKER, LIVED THERE UNTIL AT LEAST THE SIXTIES. THE HOME'S OCU OCCUPANCY IS EMBLEMATIC OF HOW THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF THIS EAST AUSTIN NEIGHBORHOOD HAVE CHANGED. EUROPEAN IMMIGRANT FAMILIES, NUMEROUS AT THE TURN OF THE CENTURY, GRADUALLY MIGRATED ELSEWHERE WHILE AFRICAN-AMERICANS WERE FORCED TO MIGRATE EASTWARD DURING THE ERA OF SEGREGATION. HOWEVER, ALL OF THE BUILDING'S OCCUPANTS WERE WORKING CLASS PEOPLE WHO INNOVATED TO SUPPORT THEIR FAMILIES AND TO BUILD COMMUNITIES IN THE FACE OF INEQUALITY AND SEGREGATION. THE 2016 EAST AUSTIN SURVEY LISTS THE PROPERTY AS ELIGIBLE FOR LOCAL LANDMARK LISTING, INDIVIDUAL LISTING ON THE NATIONAL REGISTER OF HISTORIC PLACES CONTRIBUTING TO A POTENTIAL LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT AND CONTRIBUTING TO A POTENTIAL NATIONAL REGISTER DISTRICT. THE BUILDING APPEARS TO RETAIN MODERATE INTEGRITY, UM, THOUGH THE ORIGINAL PORCH WAS MODIFIED DURING THE PERIOD OF SIGNIFICANCE AND THE PROVENANCE OF THE EXISTING TURN POST IS UNCLEAR. UH, THE PORCH WAS REHABILITATED AND INCOMPATIBLE ASBESTOS SIDING REMOVED IN EITHER 19 77, 19 83 OR 1995 PER PERMIT HISTORY, UH, PROPERTIES MUST MEET TWO CRITERIA FOR LANDMARK DESIGNATION. AND STAFF HAS DETERMINED THAT THE BUILDING MAY MEET TWO OF THESE CRITERIA. UH, IT IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THE NATIONAL FOLKS STYLE, UM, AND IT IS ASSOCIATED WITH THE NICHE NITSKY FAMILY, GERMAN IMMIGRANTS WHO OWNED AND OPERATED ONE OF AUSTIN'S FIRST CABINET MAKING BUSINESSES. THE EAST AUSTIN HISTORIC RESOURCE SURVEY ALSO NOTES THAT THIS BUILDING IS IMPORTANT FOR ITS ASSOCIATION WITH NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT PATTERNS AS ITS OCCUPANTS EXEMPLIFY CHARACTERISTIC DEMOGRAPHIC CHANGES AS THE NEIGHBORHOOD TRANSITIONED FROM A MAJORITY IMMIGRANT EUROPEAN POPULATION TO A MAJORITY AFRICAN AMERICAN POPULATION DURING THE EARLY AND MID 20TH CENTURY. UM, THIS PROPERTY, UH, WENT TO THE HISTOR OR WENT TO THE, UH, ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE LAST MONTH. UM, WHO REQUESTED THAT THE APPLICANT PROVIDE INTENT FOR THE LOT, UM, SO THAT THE COMMISSION MAY OFFER REUSE SUGGESTIONS, UH, THE APPLICANT AND OWNER DID NOT ATTEND THAT COMMITTEE MEETING. STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS THAT SHOULD THE COMMISSION FIND THAT THE BUILDING'S HISTORICAL ASSOCIATIONS AND INTEGRITY SUFFICIENTLY MEET THE CRITERIA FOR LANDMARK DESIGNATION, INITIATE HISTORIC ZONING, OTHERWISE ENCOURAGE REHABILITATION AND ADAPTIVE REUSE RELOCATION OR DECONSTRUCTION AND SALVAGE OVER DEMOLITION, BUT APPROVE THE DEMOLITION PERMIT APPLICATION UPON COMPLETION OF THE CITY OF AUSTIN DOCUMENTATION PACKAGE. UH, THAT CONCLUDES THE STAFF PRESENTATION. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. UH, ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? OKAY, HEARING NONE SHALL WE HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT? IS THE APPLICANT HERE IT WOULD APPEAR NOT. DO WE HAVE ANY SPEAKERS SIGNED UP? WE HAVE ONE SPEAKER SIGNED UP IN OPPOSITION AND THAT IS SCOTT MENZIES. OKAY. PLEASE COME FORWARD. THANK YOU FOR STICKING IT OUT. NO PROBLEM. YOU THINK WE GIVE STARS OR SOMETHING? BUT YEAH, SHE GOT A CUPCAKE AT THE END. IS THIS THING ON? PERFECT. YEAH. AND AGAIN, STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD. UH, MY NAME'S SCOTT MENZIES. I'M THE PRESIDENT OF ROBERTSON HILL NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. THE ADJACENT NEIGHBORHOOD TO THE PROPERTY IN QUESTION. UH, GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS. I AM HERE TO SPEAK IN OPPOSITION OF EUREKA DEVELOPMENTS PLAN TO DEMOLISH THE BUILDING AT 9 0 7 EAST 13TH STREET. THE BUILDING IS WORTHY OF SAVING. IT CON CONTRIBUTES TO THE FABRIC SCALE AND HISTORY OF EAST 12TH AND EAST 13TH COMMUNITY. JUST AS THE, UH, EISEN BUILDING THE IQ HURDLE HOUSE THAT WAS ALSO WORTH SAVING, I WANNA THANK THE COMMISSIONERS WHO VOTED IN FAVOR OF PRESERVING THE EISEN ADVISOR HOUSE AND THE IQ IQ HURDLE HOUSE. THAT DECISION SHOWED THAT THE BODY UNDERSTANDS THE IMPORTANCE OF PROTECTING HISTORIC HOMES AND THE COMMUNITIES AROUND THEM, NOT JUST THE STRUCTURES THEMSELVES. EUREKA DEVELOPMENT HAS BEEN ACQUIRING LARGE AMOUNTS OF PROPERTY ALONG EAST 12TH STREET FOR A LARGE SCALE DEVELOPMENT. WHEN DEVELOPMENT BECOMES THE DEFAULT APPROACH, WE LOSE MORE THAN BUILDINGS. WE LOSE AFFORDABILITY, CULTURAL CONTINUITY, AND THE PEOPLE WHO MAKE THESE NEIGHBORHOODS WHOLE. THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO APPLY THE SAME VALUES AND LEADERSHIP YOU SHOWED BEFORE PRESERVATION MATTERS, COMMUNITY MATTERS. AND ONCE THESE BUILDINGS ARE GONE, THEY'RE GONE FOREVER. I URGE COMMISSIONERS TO OPPOSE, DEMOLITION AND SUPPORT PRESERVATION OF 9 0 7 EAST 13TH STREET. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. UH, ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? COMMISSIONERS, WE THANK YOU FOR COMING. NO PROBLEM. ALRIGHT. UM, THERE ARE NO OTHER SPEAKERS. I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND A SECOND AND A SECOND OF A COMMISSIONER ACTON. [03:50:01] ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, PLEASE RAISE THEIR HAND. ALL RIGHT. IT IS CLOSED. AND COMMISSIONERS, WHAT IS YOUR MOTION? I'M GONNA MOVE TO INITIATE HISTORIC ZONING ON THE BASIS FOR ARCHITECTURE AND HISTORIC ASSOCIATIONS. OKAY. IS THERE A SECOND? COMMISSIONER ACTON? OKAY. UH, THERE'S A SECOND. COMMISSIONER COOK, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK TO YOUR MOTION? YEAH. THIS PROPERTY WAS IN THE EAST AUSTIN HISTORIC RESOURCES SURVEY RECOMMENDED AS A HISTORIC LANDMARK. UNLIKE THE PREVIOUS CASE, THIS ONE IS, UH, NOT, UM, IN AN ISSUE OF A COMPETING ZONING SITUATION, UH, SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE, IT COULD VERY EASILY BE ADDED ONTO, UH, PROVIDING THE OWNER FULL UTILITY AND ENJOYMENT OF THAT PROPERTY WHILE ALSO MAINTAINING HISTORIC RESOURCE THAT'S BEEN IDENTIFIED IN, UH, SURVEYS THAT THE CITY'S INVESTED IN. SO I, I, I SEE NO REASON NOT TO MOVE THIS FORWARD. COMMISSIONER ACTON? UH, I WOULD AGREE. I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD. I AGREE TO ALL THIS POINTS. OKAY. ANY MORE DISCUSSION? COMMISSIONERS? UH, I THINK THAT, UM, IT'S SURPRISING THAT IT APPEARS THAT WHEN THEY TOOK SOME OF THE SIDING OFF JUST HOW MUCH WAS INTACT. UM, THE BASE OF THIS BUILDING, AS I COMMISSIONER COOK MENTIONS, IS THOUGH VERY MODEST. UM, I THINK ITS VALUE IS SUCH THAT WITH REALLY NOT ANY, A LOT OF EXTRA EFFORT, UH, QUITE A BIT OF HISTORY CAN BE, UH, MAINTAINED AND PRESERVED AND MAYBE EVEN CELEBRATED IN THE RIGHT, IN, IN THE RIGHT HANDS. SO THAT MAY BE OUR CHANCE. UH, BUT I ALSO APPRECIATE ADDITIONAL TIME FOR STAFF TO DO RESEARCH ON THIS ITEM, UH, IN THE, UH, PERHAPS REACHING OUT TO THE OWNERS AS WELL AND SEEING IF THEY CAN BE PERSUADED TO TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT THIS PROPERTY. UH, SO I'LL SUPPORT THE MOTION. YEAH, I WAS ALSO JUST, UM, GONNA ADD, I, UM, I, THIS IS, THIS CASE HAS BEEN INTRIGUING ME, UM, SINCE WE, SINCE WE HEARD IT LAST MONTH. AND I'D HOPE TO GET DOWN TO THE HISTORY CENTER THIS, UM, THIS WEEK TO DO SOME RESEARCH. BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, AS PREVIOUSLY DISCUSSED LAST MONTH, I MEAN THIS IS SITUATED ON A PRETTY LARGE LOT. ALL THINGS CONSIDERED FROM, UM, EVERYTHING THAT I HAVE SEEN IN THE BACKUPS. AND I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES. AND ALSO JUST THE FACT THAT THE APPLICANT WAS NOT HERE TONIGHT, I FEEL LIKE WAS, I'D LIKE TO HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT. UM, I AM CAN'T IMAGINE THAT I'M THE ONLY PERSON ON THE COMMISSION WHO FEELS THAT WAY. UM, SO I'M GONNA BE SUPPORTING THIS, UM, HISTORIC ZONING INITIATION. I MEAN, I THINK IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT IS A HIGH BAR TO CLEAR, BUT I THINK IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, UM, IT, IT'S, IT'S, UM, AT THAT POINT TO INITIATE THAT PROCESS AND SEE, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, DO SOME MORE RESEARCH AND SEE IF IT, UH, WARRANTS THE FULL, THE FULL PROCESS. BUT, UM, I'M GONNA BE SUPPORTING THIS, UH, THIS MOTION. OKAY. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? QUICK QUESTION, IS THIS THE HOUSE FROM LAST MONTH WHERE THE PREVIOUS OWNER WAS SUPPOSED YES. AND THEY HAD THE INSIDE. DID THEY PROVIDE THAT DOCUMENTATION? DID THEY BRING THAT? I DON'T REMEMBER HOW MUCH DOCUMENTATION, BUT IT IS THE, THEY HAD THE DUAL SPEAKERS ONE INCLUDING THAT USED TO LIVE THERE. UH, THIS IS THAT ONE. RIGHT. BUT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO BRING PICTURES OF THE INSIDE OR PROVIDE SOMETHING. YEAH, I, I DON'T, YEAH, I DUNNO THAT THEY EVER PROVIDED IT. DID, DID SAM, DID WE EV EVER GET ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION AFTER LAST, LAST MONTHS MEETING? I'M SORRY, COULD YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION? WERE WE LOOKING FOR PHOTOS FROM THE APPLICANT OR PHOTOS FROM THE NEIGHBOR MEETING? THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION OR THE, THE FORMER FORMER RESIDENCE RESIDENT. OH, GOTCHA. RIVER DELANO, I BELIEVE HER NAME WAS. YES, COMMISSIONER. I ACTUALLY HEARD FROM HER RIGHT BEFORE THE MEETING STARTED AND SHE SAID SHE WAS NOT ABLE TO BE HERE THIS EVENING. UM, BUT SHE COULD PROVIDE DOCUMENTATION. UM, I'LL REACH OUT TO HER AND, UM, SEE IF SHE CAN, UH, SEND THOSE AND WE CAN ADD THEM TO THE RECORD FOR THE MEETING. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? AND AS THIS WOULD NOTE, WE STILL HAVE TO RECOMMEND, SO THE CASE IS NOT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE ANOTHER MONTH TO GET FEEDBACK FROM. YEAH, WE'RE INITIATING RIGHT NOW. WE'RE INITIATING. SO IF, IF THIS MOTION PASSES, THIS IS NOT THE FINAL VOTE. OKAY, THANK YOU. OKAY, ALL EVERYBODY CLEAR THE MOTION. EVERYBODY IN FAVOR? PLEASE INDICATE BY RAISING YOUR HAND. I SEE ALL HANDS RAISED. IT IS UNANIMOUS. UH, NO OPPOSITION. ALRIGHT, WELL THAT'LL BE AN INTERESTING ONE FOR OUR NEXT MEETING. COMMISSIONERS. UH, IN [19. Update from the Architectural Review Committee regarding the December 10, 2025, meeting.] THE INTEREST OF TIME WE HAVE A ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE REPORT. ITEM NUMBER 19, UH, JUST REAL QUICK, UH, FIVE 14 EAST MONROE CAME TO US AND YOU CAN SEE THE BACKUP ONLINE, WHICH YOU CAN'T ALWAYS SEE WITH THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE, BUT IT WAS A PROPERTY THAT WE HAD, UH, LET GO WITH AGAINST MY RESERVATIONS. UH, BUT I WAS HAPPY TO SEE THAT THEY, UH, DID A GOOD JOB PRESERVING THE FRONT AND AT LEAST THE SCALE OF THE ADDITION, I THINK IS, AND MATERIALS ARE IN KEEPING, IF NOT THE FENESTRATION. AND, UH, WE WERE SUPPOSED TO SEE ME CARTE MUSEUM, BUT I UNDERSTAND THEY'RE NOT GONNA COME TO US NOW FOR RECONSTRUCTION. THEY, UH, UNDERSTAND THEY WERE LOOKING FOR, UH, POTENTIAL HISTORIC PRESERVATION [03:55:01] GRANT, BUT NOW WE MAY BE SEEING IT AS A DEMOLITION OF A CONTRIBUTING PROPERTY ON CONGRESS AVENUE AT SOME POINT. SO IF ANYONE'S INTERESTED IN DIGGING INTO THAT, UM, IT'LL BE AN INTERESTING CASE IN THE FUTURE. THANK YOU. UH, AND ALSO, UH, OPERATIONS [20. Update from the Operations Committee regarding the December 18, 2025, meeting.] COMMITTEE. YEAH. UM, I DON'T HAVE MY NOTES IN FRONT OF ME RIGHT NOW. I THINK I LET THEM AT HOME. BUT, UM, WE CONTINUE OUR DISCUSSION OF THE HISTORIC SCIENCE STANDARDS, UM, AND SORT OF GETTING A LITTLE BIT MORE INTO THE WEEDS ABOUT THAT. UM, I THINK, UH, COMMISSIONER ACTON COULD PROBABLY SPEAK A BIT MORE TO THAT. UM, YEAH, TO THAT. I THINK WE AGREED, UH, TO, WE ARE GONNA REVISIT THE LANGUAGE OF THAT. WE'RE, AND THEN WE'RE GONNA, UM, WE'RE GONNA TRY TO PULL IN SOME OF YOU ONCE WE GET SOME ENOUGH WRITTEN DOWN ON PAPER FOR YOU TO ACTUALLY COMMENT ON. UM, I KNOW ONE OF THEM IS, UM, PROBABLY REVISITING PRETTY HEAVILY THE NEON SIGN REQUIREMENTS, WHICH ACTUALLY POPPED UP TONIGHT WITH THE, UH, PRESERVATION OF AUSTIN RESIDENTS, WHICH I THINK TECHNICALLY WOULD BE, UH, RIGHT ON THE BORDERLINE OF OUR SIGN STANDARDS, UH, SAYING THAT NO NEON SIGNS FOR ANYTHING, UH, BEFORE THE FIFTIES WITHOUT, UH, A SPECIAL LOOK. SO, UM, WE'RE GONNA REVISIT SOME OF THAT LANGUAGE. WE ALSO LOOKING AT MAYBE ADDING SOME LANGUAGE ABOUT HISTORIC SIGNS THEMSELVES, SOME CLARITY ON MURALS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, IF WE CAN SNEAK THAT PAST LEGAL, UM, . SO, YES. OH, AND I, I WAS JUST GONNA ADD, UM, SINCE I REPORTED THIS TO THE COMMITTEE, BUT, UM, I PERSONALLY, AND I THINK THE OTHER MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE DID A LITTLE BIT TOO JUST, YOU KNOW, UH, SOME WALKING AROUND, UH, SOME OF THE HISTORIC COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS AND, UM, TAKING NOTE AND TAKING SOME PICTURES AND GETTING A SENSE OF LIKE HOW MUCH THESE, THE EXISTING STANDARDS ARE BEING FOLLOWED AT ALL. UM, WHICH IS A VERY INTERESTING THING TO DO. I RECOMMEND IT. UH, IT'S, THERE'S A, THERE'S A LOT OF, UM, THERE'S A LOT OF NONCOMPLIANT CASES THAT YOU WOULD NEVER SUSPECT. THERE'S A LOT OF COMPLIANT ONES THAT YOU WOULD NOT SUSPECT EITHER. ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS WE ASK OURSELVES AS WE WALKED AROUND, WHICH YOU GUYS COULD MAYBE DO TOO, IS THAT KNOWING A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THOSE SIGN STANDARDS, WALKING AROUND SOME OF THESE ZONES, YOU'LL, IN PICKING OUT SOME OF YOUR FAVORITE SIGNS AND THEN DETERMINING WHETHER THEY ACTUALLY MEET THEIR REQUIREMENTS OR NOT AND WHETHER THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE. AND THEN SOME OF THESE SIGNS ALSO, YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE TREAT THEM NOW THAT WE MIGHT CONSIDER THEM TO BE HISTORIC THEMSELVES WHEN THEY DON'T OTHERWISE FALL INTO HAVING TO BE PRESERVED NECESSARILY BECAUSE THEY'RE A, A LANDMARK AND DO THEY EVEN HAVE TO AT THAT POINT? SO THOSE ARE SOME, THAT'S SOME OF THE LANGUAGE WE'RE GONNA TRY TO REVISIT AND SEE IF WE CAN WRAP IN A LITTLE BIT MORE CLARITY INTO THAT AND MAYBE PROTECT SOME THINGS AND THEN LET SOME OTHER STUFF GO. SO, VERY COOL. ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU. UH, I HAVE [FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS] ONE ITEM ON FUTURE AGENDA, UH, A ISD TONIGHT. UH, WE HAD A SCHOOL, UH, OBVIOUSLY EARLIER, I KNOW MICHAEL MANN, UH, IN THE SPRING HAD INDICATED THAT, UH, THEY HAVE SCHOOLS THAT'LL BE COMING UP AND WE STARTED DIALOGUING ABOUT THE HAVING SOME WAY OF HAVING A BRIEFING ON WHAT SCHOOLS MIGHT BE COMING AND WHICH ONES MIGHT HAVE SOME HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE. SO IS THAT SOMETHING WE CAN REQUEST OF STAFF, UH, TO SEE IF WE CAN EXTEND AN INVITATION TO A ISD TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT? YES. CHAIR, UH, TWO SPONSORS ARE NEEDED, UM, ON THE RECORD. SO IF YOU COULD FIND ANOTHER SPONSOR WHO WOULD BE INTERESTED, UH, WE CAN DO IT THAT WAY. YEAH, I THINK LOTS OF HANDS GO UP. SURE. BEG YOUR PARDON? WHO WANTS TO BE IN THE MINUTES? OH, LET'S LET, LET THE CHAIR, VICE CHAIR. WE'LL, WE'LL TAKE CARE OF IT. ALRIGHT. YEAH. GOOD TO KNOW. ALRIGHT, UH, IS THERE ANY OTHER ITEM THAT WE NEED TO HAVE? SEEING NONE, I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ADJOURN. ALL RIGHT. IS IT SECOND MOVED AND SECONDED TO AD CHAIR? AND ALL IN FAVOR? PLEASE RAISE YOUR HAND. AND IT IS UNANIMOUS. WE ARE ADJOURNED. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.