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[CALL TO ORDER]
THIS IS THE ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION FOR MARCH 9TH, 2026.LET'S GO THROUGH ROLL CALL FIRST.
COMMISSIONER ALVAREZ? NOT YET.
COMMISSIONER BELLAMY? I'M HERE.
[PUBLIC COMMUNICATION: GENERAL]
WE HAVE TWO SPEAKERS.I AM, UH, SPEAKING ON THE TOPIC OF ELECTRIC RATE REVIEWS.
AND I AM, UH, I DO NOT LIVE IN AUSTIN, BUT I HAVE A LOT OF CONNECTIONS TO AUSTIN, INCLUDING THE FACT THAT MY DAUGHTER LIVES THERE NOW.
AND I WAS ALSO, I WAS ALSO CHOSEN TO BE THE OFFICIAL CONSUMER ADVOCATE, THE INDEPENDENT CONSUMER ADVOCATE FOR TWO DIFFERENT PREVIOUS RATE REVIEWS FOR AUSTIN ENERGY.
ONE IN 2016 AND ONE IN IN 2020.
AND I WANTED TO COMMENT ON THE FACT, I GUESS, THAT, UH, THE CITY HAS DECIDED NOT TO DO RATE REVIEWS OR THEY DIDN'T DO A RATE REVIEW LAST TIME.
AND I WANTED TO, UH, COMMENT IN AND ENCOURAGE YOU TO CONSIDER, UH, DOING THESE RATE REVIEWS IN THE FUTURE.
I'M NOT SURE WHETHER I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN PARTICIPATING, BUT I JUST BELIEVE THAT THEY'RE GOOD PUBLIC POLICY.
THE, UM, I THINK WE HAD A, UM, SOME VERY POSITIVE INTERACTIONS, UM, WITH THE COMMUNITY AND WITH THE CITY COUNCIL, UH, PARTICULARLY IN 2016.
2020 WAS SORT OF A MIXED BAG, BUT EVEN THOUGH CONSUMER ADVOCATES DIDN'T GET, UM, THE THINGS THAT THEY WANTED IN 2020, I THOUGHT THE PROCESS WAS GOOD.
AND, AND THAT LEFT, UH, THE COMMUNITY WITH, UM, AT AT LEAST SOME, UM, CONFIDENCE THAT THE PROCESS HAD BEEN FULLY VETTED.
AND, UH, I WANTED TO NOTE THAT, YOU KNOW, THE PROCESS THAT AUSTIN, UH, HAD GONE THROUGH WITH ITS RATE REVIEW IN THE PAST WAS PRETTY EXTENSIVE.
IT WAS REALLY, UH, THE GOLD STANDARD THAT YOU HAD A, AN ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE.
YOU HAD THIS CONSUMER ADVOCATE, YOU HAD ENOUGH TIME FOR MULTIPLE, UH, UH, FILINGS OF TESTIMONY AND DIFFERENT RECOMMENDATIONS, WHICH LEFT YOU AS A COMMISSION AND THE CITY COUNCIL WITH, YOU KNOW, A MULTIPLE CHOICE OPTION OF DIFFERENT, UH, WAYS.
AND EVEN IF IT WASN'T, THERE WASN'T A LOT OF DIFFERENCE IN THE AMOUNT OF OVERALL REVENUE REQUIREMENT.
THERE WERE A LOT OF OPTIONS, UH, THAT GAVE YOU, UH, THE ABILITY TO CHOOSE POLICIES ON THE WAY THE RATES WERE APPLIED AND RATE DESIGN.
AND, UH, IT'S, IT SEEMS LIKE THE, THE CITY OF AUSTIN WAS, UH, HAD ONE OF THE MOST ROBUST AND, UM, THOROUGH RATE REVIEW PROCESSES, AND NOW IT HAS APPARENTLY DROPPED THAT ALL TOGETHER.
SO MY MESSAGE TO YOU IS THAT I, I DON'T, I WASN'T INVOLVED IN THE DISCUSSIONS AS TO WHY THE CITY DOESN'T WANT TO DO A RATE REVIEW OR, OR ISN'T INTERESTED, OR WASN'T INTERESTED LAST TIME.
UH, BUT IF THE CONCERN IS THAT IT, IT TOOK TOO LONG OR THERE WERE TOO MANY RESOURCES, I WANTED TO MAKE SURE YOU UNDERSTOOD THAT THERE WERE MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF PROCESSES THAT MAYBE GAVE LESS DUE PROCESS THAN HAS BEEN DONE IN THE PAST, BUT WOULD BE MORE THAN YOU HAVE.
IT'S AS IF YOU HAVE GONE FROM, YOU KNOW, BE DOING A 100% REVIEW TO DOING A 0% REVIEW.
AND I THINK THE PROCESS WOULD BE, UH, BETTER EVEN IF YOU HAD A PROCESS THAT WAS SHORTER AND MAYBE, UH, YOU KNOW, TRUNCATED TO SOME DEGREE.
BUT THAT DID INVOLVE OTHER STAKEHOLDERS AND LET OTHER ORGANIZATIONS AND INDIVIDUALS GET INVOLVED AND, UM, YOU KNOW, PROVIDE THEIR, YOU KNOW, OWN EXPERTS OR OR OPINION.
COULD, COULD I ASK HIM A QUESTION? UM, HEY, JOHN, THIS IS CYRUS REED, UH, WITH SIERRA CLUB.
UM, I'M ON THE EUC, BUT I PARTICIPATED WITH YOU.
UM, PUBLIC COMMUNICATION IS NOT FOR DISCUSSION, SO IF YOU COULD EMAIL HIM OFFLINE.
HE WILL BE DOING A PRESENTATION NEXT MONTH.
OH, HE'S DOING A PRESENTATION NEXT MONTH.
I, I WILL RETRACT MY QUESTION.
PUBLIC COMMUNICATION IS JUST FOR HIM.
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KNOW THAT I'M VICE CHAIR OF THE CITY'S RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION.AT OUR LAST MEETING, UH, WE ASKED CITY COUNCIL TO HOLD A RAPE CASE THIS YEAR, I'M GONNA GIVE YOU FOUR REASONS WHY THIS SHOULD HAPPEN.
UH, FIRST I WAS AN INTERVENER IN THE LAST RAPE CASE IN 20 22, 1 OF ABOUT 10 SERIOUS INTERVENERS AND ONE OF ONLY TWO THAT WERE VOLUNTEERS.
UH, IN THIS, UH, GREAT CASE, $9.3 MILLION IN DOUBLE COUNTING WAS REVEALED.
UH, THIS WAS, UH, ACCEPTED ACTUALLY BY THE, UM, UTILITY AND RATES WERE LOWERED BECAUSE ONE OF THE INTERVENERS FOUND IT.
NOW BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE POWER OF DISCOVERY.
UH, SECOND, UH, IS A DEVIATION FROM EXPECTATIONS.
THE RESIDENTIAL PROGRESSIVE RATE STRUCTURE WAS, UH, A VERY CONTROVERSIAL ISSUE IN THE LAST RATE CASE.
AND WHEN, UH, NEW RATES PAST COUNSEL, I WAS IN THE ROOM, I HAD EVERY BELIEF THAT THESE WOULD BE IN EFFECT UNTIL THE NEXT RATE CASE.
AND THAT'S JUST NOT WHAT HAPPENED.
UH, THIRD, THE NEW RESIDENTIAL RATES ARE MORE REGRESSIVE.
THEY DISCOURAGE ENERGY CONSERVATION AND THEY ECONOMICALLY HARM LOW INCOME CUSTOMERS WHO GENERALLY USE LESS ENERGY.
AND, UH, BECAUSE THESE RATES ARE MORE REGRESSIVE, UH, THEY DISPROPORTIONATELY AFFECT SPECIFIC CITY COUNCIL DISTRICTS.
UM, THESE DISTRICTS INCLUDE DISTRICTS 3, 4, 6, 7, AND NINE WHO HAVE HIGHER RATE INCREASES THAN, UH, THE OTHERS.
UH, AND THE FOURTH REASON IS THAT BRINGING A RATE INCREASE UP DURING A CITY BUDGET IS A GUARANTEE THAT IT WILL NOT RECEIVE THE ATTENTION IT REQUIRES.
ANY OF YOU THAT HAVE HAD THE PLEASURE OF PARTICIPATING IN THE CITY BUDGET KNOWS THAT IT IS CHAOS.
PLACING A RATE INCREASE IN THE BUDGET IS BASICALLY HIDING IT IN PLAIN SIGHT.
UH, AGAIN, OUR COMMISSION HAS ASKED THAT THE COUNCIL HOLD A RATE CASE THIS YEAR.
AUSTIN ENERGY IS THE LARGEST AGENCY IN THE REGION.
IT SHOULD NOT RUN ON AUTOPILOT.
AND I'D ANSWER QUESTIONS, BUT I, I GUESS YOU CAN'T ASK THEM.
[APPROVAL OF MINUTES ]
APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES.ANYONE HAVE ANY UPDATES TO THE MINUTES FROM THE LAST EUC ON FEBRUARY 9TH? NOPE.
WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.
[Items 3 & 4, 6, 8 & 9]
AND ACTION ITEMS. WE HAVE TWO THROUGH 10.ANY ONE OF THESE YOU WANNA FIND OUT MORE INFORMATION ABOUT? I HAD A QUICK QUESTION ON TWO AND A QUICK QUESTION ON FIVE.
ANYONE ELSE? AL WE'VE GOT A QUESTION ON TWO.
UH, UH, JUST TO MAKE A NOTE THAT I'M RECUSING MYSELF FROM ITEM 10.
AND COMMISSIONER MENEZ IS RECUSING HIMSELF FROM 10.
I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION ON SEVEN.
LET'S TALK ABOUT 3, 4, 6, 8, AND NINE.
DO WE HAVE A MOTION? AND SECOND ON THOSE? JOSH? MOTION AL SECOND.
WE NOW HAVE VICE CHAIR WHITE ONLINE.
[00:10:01]
EVERYONE HERE FOR THE FIRST TIME IN A WHILE.[2. Recommend approval authorizing a contract for strategic consulting services for Austin Energy with Rifeline, LLC, for a term of three years in an amount not to exceed $450,000. Funding: $150,000 is available in the Operating Budget of Austin Energy. Funding for the remaining contract term is contingent upon available funding in future budgets.]
AL, WHO CAN ANSWER QUESTIONS ON THE OPERATING BUDGET.SO, UM, THE QUESTION I HAD IS, UM, THIS IS FOR A CONSULTING SERVICE AND I THINK WE'RE, YOU KNOW, FAMILIAR WITH THE, UH, WITH, WITH RIF LINE.
BUT WHAT I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IS, IS THIS FOR A SPECIFIC PUBLIC PROCESS THAT WE INTEND TO, UM, THAT WE'RE INVOLVED IN THIS YEAR? OR IS IT JUST SORT OF AS THINGS COME UP, I DIDN'T KNOW IF THERE WAS SOME SPECIFIC PROCESS THAT WE'RE PAYING THIS CONSULTANT FOR OR WHETHER IT WAS JUST GENERALLY HAVING IT AVAILABLE? HI, TAMMY COOPER, DEPUTY GENERAL MANAGER, UH, REGULATORY COMMUNICATIONS, COMPLIANCE AND LEGAL SERVICES.
AND THIS IS TO GIVE US, UH, THE ABILITY TO POTENTIALLY USE LIFELINE FOR, UH, UPCOMING OUTREACH EVENTS OR, OR ENGAGEMENTS THAT MAY BE APPROPRIATE.
WE, UH, HAVE REALIZED THAT, UM, OVER THE PAST YEAR AND A HALF OR SO, THAT WE'VE WORKED WITH THEM ON THE RESOURCE GENERATION PLAN, THAT IT WAS BENEFICIAL TO, UM, HAVE THEM AVAILABLE.
AND SO THIS IS REALLY JUST KIND OF A STANDBY, UH, CONTRACT.
WE, WE WON'T USE IT IF WE DON'T NEED TO, BUT IF WE IDENTIFY A PARTICULAR PROJECT THAT WE NEED, THEN WE WILL, UM, HAVE THE ABILITY TO QUICKLY BRING THEM ON BOARD.
SO TO BE CLEAR, IT'S UP TO 150,000 FOR THE YEAR IF YOU NEED 'EM, BUT IF YOU DON'T NEED 'EM, YOU DON'T, WE DON'T SPEND THE MONEY.
I GUESS I, I HAD THE SAME QUESTIONS THAT CYRUS PLUS THIS SEEMS TO GO ON FOR THREE YEARS.
SO I, I WAS JUST, UH, LINDA PLAYED A, A MAJOR ROLE IN THE GENERATION PLAN, BUT I WAS JUST WONDERING, IN THE NEXT THREE YEARS, WHAT KIND OF THINGS MIGHT SHE BE TASKED TO DO? WELL, I, I THOUGHT WE HAD A A RATE, UM, A RATE CASE IN 2027.
THAT'S WITHIN THAT THREE YEAR WINDOW TOO.
IS THAT TRUE
I THINK THERE MAY BE ADDITIONAL ITEMS THAT COME UP WITH RESPECT TO THE RESOURCE GENERATION PLAN AS WE, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY MAY NEED TO GO BACK TO OUR WORKING GROUP AND GET MORE FEEDBACK THAT GIVE THEM UPDATES.
THERE ARE ALSO THINGS THAT WE MAY NOT EVEN KNOW ARE ON OUR AGENDA TODAY, UH, THAT MIGHT COME UP THAT WE FEEL LIKE COMMUNITY OUTREACH WOULD BE APPROPRIATE FOR.
UM, SO IT'S REALLY JUST TO HAVE US, UH, ALLOW US THE FLEXIBILITY TO, UH, FOR THOSE BIG ITEMS THAT WE REALLY NEED TO ENGAGE OUR STAKEHOLDERS WITH, WITH A THIRD PARTY THAT, THAT, UH, LIFELINE WILL BE AVAILABLE UNDER CONTRACT.
BUT, BUT NONE IS COMMITTED AT, AT THIS POINT.
WE HAVE HAVE NOT SPECIFICALLY IDENTIFIED ANYTHING.
OTHER QUESTIONS? I DON'T SEE ANY ONLINE YET.
DO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND? I'LL HAVE APPROVAL.
WE HAVE A MOTION FROM CHRIS AND A SECOND FROM CESAR.
SO WE, WE HAVE TWO OUT OF THREE, I THINK ONLINE AND THE REST OF US HERE.
DID YOU WANNA ABSTAIN OR JUST SAY NO, CUBA ABSTAIN.
[5. Recommend approval authorizing a contract for maintenance, repair and replacement of electric vehicle charging stations for Austin Energy and Austin Aviation with National Car Charging, LLC for an initial term of one year with up to two one-year extension options in an amount not to exceed $900,000. Funding: $200,000 is available in the Operating Budget of Austin Energy and $60,000 is available in the Operating Budget of Austin Aviation. Funding for the remaining contract term is contingent upon available funding in future budgets. ]
CYRUS, YOU HAD A QUESTION? YEAH, THIS IS FOR, UM, MAINTENANCE OF THE, IS IT THE, CALLED THE PLUGIN EVERYWHERE OR EV, HOWEVER YOU WANNA SAY THAT PLUGIN EVERYWHERE.UM, REPLACE, SO MY, MY QUESTION IS REALLY ABOUT REPAIR VERSUS REPLACEMENT.
IS THIS JUST THE, THIS IS JUST THE FUNDING, THE COST OF REPLACEMENT IS NOT COVERED IN THIS AMOUNT? CORRECT.
OR WOULD THIS COVER IF SOMEBODY, IF YOU NEEDED TO REPLACE AN EV CHARGING STATION THAT WASN'T WORKING, WOULD THIS COVER THAT OR, YES.
RICHARD GENESEE, VICE PRESIDENT OF CUSTOMER ENERGY SOLUTIONS.
AND THIS CONTRACT IS DESIGNED TO FILL WHATEVER NEED THERE IS IN TERMS OF REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT.
AND WHEN, WHATEVER THE COMPANY IS THAT ORIGINALLY INSTALLED THAT EV CHARGER, ISN'T THERE SOME SORT OF WARRANTY THAT THE, THE COMPANY, IF IT'S A PRIVATE OWNED, THIS COVERS, UH, AUSTIN ENERGY OWNED STATIONS, FLEET OWNED STATIONS, AND ALSO PRIVATE
[00:15:01]
OWNED STATIONS IF THEY ARE PART OF AUSTIN ENERGY'S NETWORK.IT IS JUST FOR REPAIR OF THE STATION AND OBVIOUSLY THAT PRIVATE, UM, OWNER HAS AGREED TO BE PART OF OUR NETWORK AND THIS IS PART OF OUR, UM, COVERAGE FOR THAT.
I GUESS MY QUESTION IS ABOUT IF SOME PRI IF SOME PRIVATE COMPANY, I'LL JUST MAKE UP A, A NAME, UM, EV FOR EVERYONE, COMPANY INSTALLED THE CHARGER AND A YEAR LATER IT'S BROKEN AND DOESN'T WORK.
IS THERE ANY SORT OF WARRANTY WHERE WE'RE NOT HAVING TO PAY FOR A, AN EV CHARGER THAT DOESN'T WORK OR, WELL, WELL, IT DEPENDS ON WHAT LEVEL OF REPAIR IS NEEDED, BUT, UM, I THINK WE'D HAVE TO GET INTO THE PARTICULARS OF, YOU KNOW, UH, HOW IT WAS ACTUALLY INSTALLED AND WHAT EXACTLY IS NEEDED TO REPAIR IT.
BUT IT IS DESIGNED FOR, IN THE EXTREME CASE, LET'S JUST SAY WHERE A FULL REPLACEMENT IS NEEDED, THIS COULD COVER THAT.
JUST THOUGHT, I DON'T WANT TO BE ON THE HOOK.
SOMEBODY, IF THERE'S A, SOME SORT OF A GUARANTEE OR WARRANTY, IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE RATE PAYERS SHOULD BE ON THE HOOK FOR IT, BUT TOTALLY AGREE AND UNDERSTOOD.
SO RICHARD, ARE THESE FOR LEVEL TWO OR DC FAST CHARGERS? THIS IS FOR, UH, BOTH ACTUALLY.
AND WHICH DO YOU HAVE MOST TROUBLES WITH? WHICH DO WE HAVE MOST TROUBLES WITH? YEAH.
UM, WELL AS YOU KNOW, THERE'S ONLY 30, UH, DC FAST CHARGERS.
SO THE BALANCE OF CHARGERS ARE LEVEL TWOS, BUT YOU HAVE MORE UPTIME WITH THE LEVEL TWOS, DON'T YOU? YOU HAVE MORE UPTIME WITH THE LEVEL TWOS.
AND I'D SAY THAT THE LEVEL TWOS ARE, ARE HIGHER, UH, USE BECAUSE THEY ARE, UM, I'M SORRY, THE DC FASTS ARE OF HIGHER USE BECAUSE THEY ARE DC FAST CHARGERS.
SO THERE'S MORE DEMAND FOR THE DC FAST CHARGERS OVERALL.
IS THERE ANY WAY WE CAN UPGRADE SOME OF THE EQUIPMENT TO GET SOME BETTER EQUIPMENT THAT LASTS LONGER? UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT SPECIFICALLY IS COVERED, BUT WE COULD, UH, LOOK AT THAT CERTAINLY AS PART OF THIS.
I WAS A LITTLE CONFUSED ON SOME OF THE WORDING IS, ARE THESE CHARGING STATIONS JUST FOR AUSTIN ENERGY FLEET VEHICLES AND AT AUSTIN AVIATION OR ARE THESE THE ACTUAL PUBLIC CHARGERS THAT ANYONE CAN PLUG INTO? YEAH, IT'S ALL, EVERYTHING IN OUR FLEET.
UH, I'M SORRY, EVERYTHING IS PART OF OUR PLUGIN EVERYWHERE NETWORK, WHICH IS ALL 1600 CHARGERS, LEVEL TWO CHARGERS, AND THE 30 DC FAST CHARGERS AS WELL AS FLEET CHARGERS, AS WELL AS, UH, UH, CHARGERS THAT ARE UNDER OUR FLEET SERVICES.
THAT ONLY Y'ALL'S, Y'ALL'S EVS HAVE ACCESS PART OF OUR, OUR NETWORK.
OTHER QUESTIONS ON THIS? OKAY, WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.
CHRIS, DID YOU GET THAT, NIKKI? OKAY.
KABA, ARE YOU ABSTAINING AGAIN ABOVE? YES, SORRY.
[7. Recommend approval authorizing a contract for vegetation management around street lighting for Austin Energy with Wright Tree Service, Inc., or one of the other qualified offerors, for an initial term of three years with up to three one-year extension options in an amount not to exceed $9,000,000. Funding: $650,000 is available in the Operating Budget of Austin Energy. Funding for the remaining contract term is contingent upon available funding in future budgets. ]
RAUL, YOU HAD A QUESTION ABOUT SEVEN.UM, YEAH, WE GET KINDA ITEMS LIKE THIS, UH, FROM TIME TO TIME WHERE, UM, WE'RE OPERATING LARGER CONTRACTS AND WHAT WE BUDGETED FOR.
SO LIKE IN THIS CASE IT'S, I DON'T KNOW, VEGETATION MANAGEMENT OR SOMETHING.
I'M NOT LOOKING AT THE ACTUAL LANGUAGE, BUT, UM, BUT I THINK IT WAS TRUE FOR NUMBER EIGHT ALSO, WHERE WE'RE APPROVING A MULTI-YEAR CONTRACT FOR X AMOUNT.
AND I THINK THIS IS FOR 1.5 MILLION A YEAR OF VEGETATION MANAGEMENT OR TREE MANAGEMENT, WHATEVER.
UM, BUT WE ONLY HAVE 650,000 BUDGETED.
SO, AND I THINK ITEM MADE WAS MUCH LARGER NUMBERS.
BUT, UH, BUT I'LL USE THIS AS AN EXAMPLE.
SO, SO THERE'S A COUPLE OF ISSUES HERE.
ONE IS WE BUDGETED 650,000, I ASSUME THAT'S WHY WE HAVE 650,000 IN THE BUDGET, BUT WE'RE SAYING WE'RE GONNA SPEND 1.5 MILLION A YEAR FOR THE NEXT FIVE YEARS, RIGHT.
SO, SO THAT'S ONE QUESTION, RIGHT? WHY IS IT A BIGGER NUMBER? AND THEN THE SECOND QUESTION IS, IF WE BUDGETED $650,000 FOR THIS YEAR, THEN WHERE DOES THE OTHER, WHERE DOES THE $850,000 ABOVE WHAT WE BUDGETED OR ALLOCATED,
[00:20:01]
WHERE DOES THAT COME FROM? GOOD EVENING.BROCK CARTER, VICE PRESIDENT ELECTRIC SYSTEM FIELD OPERATIONS.
SO, TO, TO ANSWER THE QUESTION, UH, THE $650,000 THAT IS REMAINING FOR FY 26 DOESN'T ACCOUNT FOR WHAT WE'VE ALREADY SPENT, UH, FOR BENCH MANAGEMENT RELATED SPECIFICALLY TO STREET LIGHTING.
YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I WAS JUST CURIOUS IS, IS THAT THE BUDGETED AMOUNT OR IS THAT THE REMAINING AMOUNT? YES, SIR.
AND SO IS THE AMOUNT WE BUDGETED ABOUT 101.5 MILLION? I MEAN, IT'S, UH, YES, I WOULD HAVE TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE BUDGET.
IT'S ALIGN WITH WHAT WE HISTORICALLY, I GUESS GUESS HAVE BUDGETED IT SPENT.
SO I DID, I'M SORRY, I MAY HAVE, I DID CHECK EARLIER TODAY AND THAT IS IN LINE WITH WHAT WE WERE BUDGETING FOR VEGETATION MANAGEMENT RELATED TO STREET LIGHTING EACH FISCAL YEAR.
ALRIGHT, THAT'S, UH, THANKS FOR CLARIFYING THAT.
YOU KNOW, THAT I'LL, I'LL MOVE APPROVAL OF THIS ITEM IF, UH, THERE'S NO MORE QUESTIONS.
OTHER QUESTIONS? AL I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHY IS VEGETATION MANAGEMENT FOR STREET LIGHTING DIFFERENT THAN VEGETATION MANAGEMENT? I MEAN, WHEN YOU'RE GOING DOWN THE ROAD WITH THE TREE CHOPPER, WHY AREN'T THEY DOING THE WHOLE STREET OR SO IN, IN SOME CASES, OUR VEGETATION MANAGEMENT FOR STREET LIGHTING IS DONE WHEN WE'RE DOING CIRCUIT TRIMS, MAINTENANCE TRIMS OR CIP WORK.
BUT IN OTHER CASES, THERE IS NOT ADDITIONAL INFRASTRUCTURE IN THAT AREA.
AND THERE IS STREET LIGHTING ONLY VEGETATION MANAGEMENT THAT IS DONE.
AND THIS IS A SEPARATE BUDGET FOR THAT THEN? THAT IS CORRECT.
THESE BUDGETS HAVE BEEN SEPARATE.
THIS ALSO COVERS, UH, VEGETATION MANAGEMENT AROUND THE STREETLIGHTS SO THAT THEY ACTUALLY PUT OUT THE LIGHTING THAT IS INTENDED.
UH, JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW IT WORKS.
ARE, ARE WE READY TO VOTE ON THIS ONE? WE HAD A, A MOTION.
[10. Recommend approval authorizing a contract for Ciena Dense Wavelength Division Multiplexing products and services for Austin Energy with Netsync Network Solutions, Inc., or one of the other qualified offerors, for an initial term of two years with up to three one-year extension options for a total contract amount not to exceed $2,000,000. Funding: $90,373 is available in the Operating Budget of Austin Energy and $1,000,000 is available in the Capital Budget of Austin Energy. Funding for the remaining contract term is contingent upon available funding in future budgets. ]
MOVING ON TO DID WE EVER DO 10? SORRY, I YEAH, I THOUGHT WE JUST, THAT WAS INCLUDED.THE ONLY COMMENT WAS YOU WERE RECUSED, RIGHT? OR DO WE NEED TO TIDY THAT UP? NIKKI? IT WAS SEPARATE WHEN YOU CALLED OUT THE CONSENT ITEMS. IT WAS NOT, YOU HAD CALLED OUT 3, 4, 6, 8, AND NINE ON CONSENT.
EVEN THOUGH I WAS SUSPICIOUS THAT HE RECUSED HIMSELF, I'M GONNA VOTE FOR IT.
ALL IN FAVOR? I WAS LIKE, SAY HI.
ANYONE ONLINE? YOU ALREADY VOTED? OKAY.
KAABA ABSTAIN, YES OR NO? YES.
[11. Discussion and possible action on the Electric Utility Commission’s priorities for the Fiscal Year 2026- 2027 Budget. (Sponsors: Reed, Tuttle, White)]
ITEM 11, DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON THE EUCS PRIORITIES FOR THE FISCAL YEAR 20 26, 20 27.UH, CYRUS, I THINK YOU'RE LESS DISTRACTED THE TWO MEETINGS.
SO SINCE YOU ARE THE SPONSORS, I'M HAPPY TO, I'M HAPPY TO START THIS DISCUSSION.
UM, SO WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN IN, FIRST OF ALL, WE'RE ALWAYS IN THE STRANGE POSITION ON THE EUC OF MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS ABOUT A BUDGET THAT WE HAVEN'T ACTUALLY SEEN
UH, BUT THIS RECOMMENDATION HAS TWO PARTS, ONE OF WHICH I THINK WOULDN'T BE CONTROVERSIAL AND THE OTHER MAYBE.
SO, UM, ONE OF THE PARTS IS SIMPLY TO SAY THAT WE RECOMMEND THAT AS PART OF THE UPCOMING BUDGET, UH, THAT THERE IS SUFFICIENT FUNDING TO MEET AUSTIN ENERGY RESOURCE GENERATION AND CLIMATE PROTECTION PLAN GOALS.
UM, AND I LIST SOME OF THOSE IN THE DESCRIPTION.
SO THIS IS THE, I THINK THE NON-CONTROVERSIAL, THE, THE PART THAT I DON'T THINK WOULD BE CONTROVERSIAL, IT'S JUST SIMPLY SAYING WE WANNA MAKE SURE THERE'S ENOUGH BUDGET TO MEET OUR ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND DEMAND REDUCTION GOALS, OUR LOCAL SOLAR GOALS, UM, OUR TRANSMISSION GOALS.
[00:25:01]
IS THE PART THAT, UH, WE HAD TWO SPEAKERS TODAY TALK ABOUT, WHICH IS, UM, I PERSONALLY HAVE HAD HAD A CONCERN THAT WE WENT THROUGH, I'M JUST SPEAKING FOR MYSELF NOW.WE WENT THROUGH A RATE CASE PROCESS THAT CAME UP WITH, UM, PROPOSED RATES FOR, FOR ALL CUSTOMERS.
UM, BUT I'M MOST CONCERNED WITH RESIDENTIAL.
AND THEN OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS THROUGH THE BUDGET PROCESS, WE'VE BEEN INCREASING THOSE RATES AND WE'VE BEEN INCREASING THOSE RATES, UM, BOTH BY INCREASING THE CUSTOMER FIXED CHARGE, BUT ALSO INCREASING SOME OF THE BASE RATE KILOWATT HOUR CHARGES.
AND SO WHAT THIS RECOMMENDATION SAYS IS, UM, WE, UH, WE'RE RECOMMENDING NOT INCREASING AUSTIN ENERGY RATES FOR RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS IN THE NEXT FISCAL YEAR AND INSTEAD BEGINNING A RATE CASE PROCESS.
UM, AND WHERE I GET A LITTLE BIT CONFUSED ABOUT TIMING IS I DO HAVE SOME QUESTIONS FOR AUSTIN ENERGY ABOUT KIND OF THE TIMING, BUT MAYBE WE, BUT SO I, SO THIS IS, YOU CAN SEE THE RECOMMENDATIONS, HAPPY TO TAKE QUESTIONS, BUT IT HAS TWO RECOMMENDATIONS.
ONE, DON'T INCREASE, UM, DON'T INCREASE RATES ON RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS AS PART OF THE UPCOMING BUDGET.
INSTEAD START A RATE CASE PROCESS, BUT TWO, WITHIN THAT BUDGET, MAKE SURE WE CAN MEET THE GOALS THAT ARE SET OUT IN THE AUSTIN GENERATION PLAN FOR THE 2027 YEAR.
SO IT HAS TWO, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WAS CLEAR OR NOT.
OTHER QUESTIONS, CYRUS WOULD IS THE GOAL TO TRY TO, IN YOUR MIND, FINISH THE RATE CASE BY THE END OF THIS FISCAL YEAR? UM, THE GOAL IS NOT TO INCLUDE IN THE BUDGET A RATE INCREASE, BUT INSTEAD AT LEAST START A PROCESS FOR A RATE CASE.
UM, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT'S REALISTIC TO, YOU KNOW, TO FINISH IT BY THE END OF THE YEAR, BUT IF IT'S POSSIBLE THAT WOULD BE, THAT WOULD BE GREAT.
AND THAT WOULD ALLOW, UM, CITY COUNCIL IN 2027 IF IT WAS SEEN THAT WE DO NEED A RATE INCREASE, AT LEAST IT WOULD GO THROUGH THE NORMAL RATE CASE PROCESS.
SO I GUESS THAT WOULD BE, THAT WOULD BE THE GOAL.
I JUST DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S REALISTIC GIVEN, YOU KNOW, YOU NEED A, UH, YOU NEED TO HAVE A LOOK AT A YEAR'S DATA TO DO A COST OF SERVICE, YOU KNOW, AND THEN THERE'S A PROCESS.
SO I DON'T KNOW HOW REALISTIC THAT IS, BUT YEAH, SO I MEAN, THIS BRINGS UP A LOT OF QUESTIONS AND I'M NOT SURE I'D CALL IT CONTROVERSIAL.
IT JUST, IT'S BEEN SINCE 2022, I GUESS SINCE THE LAST RAID CASE.
SO THAT'S WHERE I GET SOMEWHAT CONFUSED.
SO THE, UM, CITY COUNCIL MADE A DECISION IN DECEMBER OF, OF 22.
THE RATE CASE STARTED WELL BEFORE THAT, BUT THE DECISION DIDN'T HAPPEN UNTIL DECEMBER OF 22.
AND HOPEFULLY I'M GETTING THIS RIGHT.
AND THE NEW RATES ACTUALLY WENT INTO EFFECT IN MARCH OF 23.
SO, UM, WHEN, WHEN WE SAY WE, WE HAVE A POLICY OF DOING RATES EVERY FIVE YEARS, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO COUNT.
I DON'T KNOW HOW TO COUNT THAT.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S WHEN YOU START THE RATE PROCESS OR WHEN IT, THE CITY COUNCIL MAKES A DECISION.
'CAUSE SOMETIMES IT TAKES CITY COUNCIL A WHILE TO MAKE A DECISION, PUT IT THAT WAY.
SO, UM, BUT IN MY MIND WE SHOULD, WE SHOULD, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT LAST YEAR, UM, AND USE THAT AS A TEST, YOU KNOW, A TEST YEAR AND START A RATE PROCESS RATHER THAN KIND OF ADMINISTRATIVELY INCREASING RATES.
AND AGAIN, WE HAVEN'T SEEN THEIR PROPOSAL.
ALL I KNOW IS IT'S BEEN DESCRIBED TO US MM-HMM
THAT THEIR PLAN IS TO INCREASE RATES EVERY YEAR BY 5%.
SO I'D FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE IN THE CONVERSATION GOING ON WITH SOMEBODY WHO'S GETTING PAID
SO WE MAKE SURE THAT WE GET DATA FROM SOMEONE WHO'S GOT THAT THERE IN THEIR JOB DESCRIPTION.
SO CAN WE CONFIRM THAT THE LAST RATE CASE WAS IN 2022 FROM AUSTIN ENERGY IT PLEASE.
THE, THE TEST YEAR FOR THE LAST THREE CASES, 2021.
IT WAS PROCESSED IN 2022 AND RATES WENT INTO EFFECT IN MARCH OF 2023.
IT'S ABOUT AN 18 MONTH PROCESS.
AND ISN'T THERE A REQUIREMENT THAT EVERY FIVE YEARS MAXIMALLY A NEW RATE CASE IS PERFORMED? IT'S CALLED A RATE ADEQUACY REVIEW.
AND, AND THAT'S WHAT'S REQUIRED EVERY FIVE YEARS.
AND THAT NEXT ONE WILL BE DUE WITH A 2026 TEST YEAR, SO TO SPEAK.
UM, AND IT'LL BE FILED IN 27, AND THAT'LL BE RIGHT ON THE CADENCE OF THE FIVE YEAR REQUIREMENT.
AND WHEN WOULD YOU TYPICALLY KICK THAT OFF IN 2027? 2027? WELL, ONCE WE HAVE THE FINANCIAL RESULTS FOR FISCAL YEAR 2026,
[00:30:01]
WHICH WOULD BE AROUND THE FINAL AUDIT WILL BE AROUND MARCH OF 27, WE'LL HAVE WHAT WE NEED TO FILE THE RATE ADEQUACY REVIEW PAPERWORK.SO I, I WOULD EXPECT IT SOMETIME AFTER MARCH WHEN THE AUDIT REPORT GETS FILED FOR FISCAL YEAR 26 MM-HMM
AND SO THAT'S AN 18 MONTH AND THAT WAY IT GOES ACROSS DIFFERENT BUDGET CYCLES.
SO THIS CHAOS THAT CYRUS WAS TALKING ABOUT, UNDERSTANDABLE, YOU'RE VERY BUSY WITH THE BUDGET PROCESS.
SO IT MAY KICK OFF APRIL OF 2027, GO BEYOND THE BUDGET PROCESS DURING THAT SUMMER AND THEN REALLY GET MORE INVOLVED IN THE FALL OF 2027.
UM, I THINK PROBABLY THE BEST WAY TO THINK ABOUT IT, AT LEAST AS FAR AS THE WAY I THINK ABOUT IT'S THE RATE ADVOCACY REVIEW.
WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT WHETHER OR NOT THE REVENUES WERE SUFFICIENTLY COVERING COSTS OR NOT FOR THE UTILITY, AND THEN IT'LL GET PRESENTED TO CITY COUNCIL TO DECIDE HOW THEY WANNA PROCEED.
IF THEY WANNA GO FORWARD WITH THE RATE CASE, THAT'S THEIR PREROGATIVE.
OTHERWISE IT MAY NOT BE REQUIRED AND THEY MAY, YOU KNOW, TELL US WHAT THEIR DESIRES ARE AT THAT POINT.
SO IT MAY NOT NECESSARILY BE A FULL BLOWN RATE CASE IF THEY DECIDE THAT'S NOT NECESSARY.
SO CYRUS, IS THAT LESS THAN WHAT YOU ARE PROPOSING WHAT HE'S DESCRIBING? SO I THINK WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING, AT LEAST THE WAY IT IS BEEN WRITTEN UP, IS THAT THEY WOULD START, INSTEAD OF WAITING TILL APRIL OF 27, THEY WOULD ACTUALLY START THIS YEAR.
AND SO IT'S, IT'S MAYBE MOVING IT UP A YEAR COMPARED TO WHAT THEY, WHAT YOU, WHAT YOU HAVE IN TERMS OF THE TIMELINE YOU DESCRIBED.
WELL, TWO THINGS I THINK WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING, UM, IS IT OKAY IF I COULD? SURE.
WELL LET, WHY DON'T WE LET ANSWER THE JOHN ANSWER THIS.
UM, ACTING SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER.
UM, SO, UM, I THINK THE BEST WAY TO LOOK AT IT, LIKE I SAID A SECOND AGO, IS THAT IT'S GONNA BE AN ADEQUACY REVIEW, NOT A FULL BLOWN RATE CASE NECESSARILY, UNLESS CITY COUNCIL REQUIRES US TO DO THAT.
UM, SO WE WOULD START THAT PROCESS ONCE WE SEE WHETHER OR NOT THE REVENUES WERE SUFFICIENTLY COVERING COST AFTER WE GET THE YEAREND RESULTS FOR OUR FISCAL YEAR 26.
AND ALSO, I WANNA REMIND EVERYBODY OF WHERE WE ENDED UP WITH FI FISCAL YEAR 25, IF Y'ALL REFLECT BACK ON WHAT WAS REPORTED IN NOVEMBER OF LAST YEAR FOR THE FISCAL YEAR IN RESULTS, FISCAL YEAREND RESULTS WERE A $42 MILLION DEFICIT FOR FISCAL YEAR 25.
SO THAT WOULD BE WHAT YOUR STARTING POINT IS BEFORE FACTORING IN WHAT ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS ARE ARE NECESSARY TO MEET FINANCIAL TARGETS FISCAL YEAR 26, THE FORECAST.
'CAUSE WE CAN'T TALK ABOUT THE BUDGET RIGHT NOW.
SO LAST YEAR'S FORECAST FOR FISCAL YEAR 2026, WHICH, UM, UH, WAS 57 MILLION IN THE ACTUAL BUDGET THAT WE PUT FORTH FOR FISCAL YEAR 26 WAS 44 MILLION DEFICIT.
SO WE'RE TALKING A $52 MILLION DEFICIT FOR 2 20 25, A PROJECTED OR BUDGETED FORECAST, UM, DEFICIT FOR 2026 OF 44 MILLION.
AND IF YOU ALSO RECALL LAST YEAR WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT THIS DURING THE FORECAST PERIOD, THE PRESENTATION WAS GIVEN THAT SAID THAT IF WE AREN'T ABLE TO DO THE BASE RATE INCREASES, WE WOULD BE IN A $90 MILLION DEFICIT.
SO THE BEAUTY OF THE PROPOSAL THAT WAS PUT FORTH LAST YEAR WAS THAT WE'D HAVE THIS GRADUAL INCREASE EVERY YEAR.
SO WE WEREN'T WAITING FOUR OR FIVE YEARS TO TRY AND MAKE UP FOR A HISTORIC SHORTFALL, WHICH BY THE WAY, IS COMING OUTTA RESERVES.
DURING THIS WHOLE PERIOD WHEN WE'RE OPERATING IN A DEFICIT, IT'S COMING OUTTA RESERVES.
SO IF WE DECIDE NOT TO PUT FORTH THE BASE RATE INCREASE, WE'RE GONNA BE QUICKLY BURNING THROUGH OUR RESERVES, WHICH MEANS OUR, UH, DAYS CASH ON HAND, WHICH IS REQUIRED TO MEET THE THRESHOLDS NECESSARY FOR THE CREDIT RATING AGENCIES.
SO I'M JUST TRYING TO EMPHASIZE THAT WE'VE RUN TWO YEARS WORTH OF DEFICITS.
WE STILL HAVE DEFICITS FORECASTED INTO 2027.
SO IF WE DON'T DO SOMETHING NOW, WE'RE GONNA QUICKLY BURN UP THE, UH, BURN THROUGH THE RESERVES.
SO, I'M SORRY, KABA, MS. WHITE KABA, YOU'VE GOT YOUR HAND UP.
UM, YEAH, WELL I WANTED TO CLARIFY AT LEAST WHAT I THOUGHT THE INTENT OF THE RESOLUTION WAS, BUT FIRST CAN I JUST GET CONFIRMATION IS THE PROCESS AND THE TIMELINE THAT WAS JUST LAID OUT, UH, FROM STAFF, UH, SORRY, I DIDN'T CATCH WHO THAT IS UP THERE AND I CAN'T ACTUALLY SEE BECAUSE Y'ALL ARE SO TINY
UM, BUT IS, IS THAT THE SAME AS WHAT WAS USED WITH THE LAST RATE REVIEW OR RATE CASE? I'M SORRY, I'M NOT QUITE SURE I'M CLEAR ON THE QUESTION.
THE PROCESS WAS, IS THE TIMING AND THE PROCESS THAT YOU DESCRIBED IN TERMS OF MARCH AND THEN ROLLING IT OUT IN APRIL, THAT DOESN'T QUITE A LINE OF WHAT I REMEMBER FROM LAST TIME.
BUT I'M JUST WONDERING, IS THAT THE SAME, IS THE LAST RATE CASE OR IS THAT DIFFERENT? COMMISSIONER WHITE, THIS IS STUART RILEY AUSTIN ENERGY GENERAL MANAGER, AND I THINK I UNDERSTAND THE CONFUSION.
SO WHAT THE, UH, THE FINANCIAL POLICY SAYS THAT
[00:35:01]
NO LESS THAN EVERY FIVE YEARS, AUSTIN ENERGY WILL CONDUCT A RATE ADEQUACY REVIEW.AND SO THAT LOOKS AT OUR FINANCES.
AT THAT POINT, YOU GET THE RESULTS AND THOSE RESULTS TELL YOU WHETHER OR NOT YOU ENTER INTO A RATE WHAT, WHAT'S BEING REFERRED TO AS A RATE CASE PROCESS, WHICH HAS BEEN THE AUSTIN ENERGY, UM, CONSTRUCT THAT, UH, MR. KAUFMAN DISCUSSED THAT MR. ROBBINS DISCUSSED.
AND SO THE FIRST STEP IN THE, THE FINANCIAL POLICY STEP THAT'S REQUIRED AS KIND OF THE THRESHOLD ITEM THAT THEN MOVES YOU INTO OTHER PHASES POTENTIALLY IS THE REVENUE ADEQUACY REVIEW THAT'S CALLED FOR IN FINANCIAL POLICY.
SO MAYBE THAT'S SOME OF THE CONFUSION.
SO JUST WANTED TO CLEAR THAT UP SURE.
BUT I, I JUST ACTUALLY JUST WANTED YOU TO CONFIRM IF STARTING, STARTING IN APRIL, IS THAT THE SAME IS WHAT YOU DID LAST TIME IN 2022? AND WAS THE PREP WORK ALL DONE? LIKE I THINK YOU DESCRIBED IT OR WHOEVER IT WAS WHO WAS SPEAKING, DESCRIBED IT AS LIKE BEING DONE IN LIKE A MONTH, IT SOUNDED LIKE, OR MAYBE SOMEBODY COULD GO OVER THE TIMELINE AND THEN JUST SAY WHETHER OR NOT IT'S THE SAME AS WHAT HAPPENED IN 20 21, 22.
SO THE, THE PROCESS THAT, THAT JOHN DAVIS WAS JUST MENTIONING, THE, THE, THE FIRST RESULTS YOU NEED ARE YOUR AUDITED FINANCIALS.
SO EVERY YEAR THERE'S AN EXTERNAL FINANCIAL AUDITOR THAT AUDITS AUSTIN ENERGY'S FINANCIALS.
DELOITTE DOES THAT EVERY YEAR.
SO AFTER THOSE AUDITED FINANCIALS, THEN YOU HAVE THE TEST YOUR DATA TO PROCEED FROM THERE.
THO THOSE AUDITED FINANCIALS ARE AVAILABLE LATE MARCH, EARLY APRIL, TYPICALLY.
AND SO THAT WOULD BE OF 20, BUT YOU WERE SAYING NOW AUDITED FINANCIALS FROM 26.
SO THEN THAT ONE, THOSE WOULD BE THE OKAY THAT COMES IN.
SO WHAT WE WOULD SOON HAVE WITH THE AUDITED FINANCIALS FOR 25, WHAT WE DO NOT HAVE IS A CONTRACT WITH, UH, YOU KNOW, FOR A COST OF SERVICE STUDY, A DEPRECIATION STUDY CONTRACTS, YOU KNOW, WITH ALL THE KIND OF, FOR ALL THE PREREQUISITES THAT ARE REQUIRED BEFORE INITIATING WHAT WAS DONE IN 2021.
UM, OR I'M SORRY, 2022 BASED ON 2021 IT SOUNDS.
SO YOU WOULD BE STARTING IN, DID YOU SAY MARCH OR APRIL OF 27 WITH THE AUDITED FINANCIALS AND THAT WOULD, AND THEN YOU WOULD DO A COST OF SERVICE STUDY AFTER THAT.
AND THEN THE COST OF SERVICE STUDY WOULD TAKE HOW LONG, UH, WE, WE COULD GET BACK TO YOU ON THAT? I'M NOT FAMILIAR RIGHT OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.
SOMEBODY MENTIONED AN 18 MONTH PROCESS AND I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW THAT WRAPS UP INTO FIVE YEARS.
'CAUSE IF OUR LAST ONE WAS DECIDED IN 22 PLUS FIVE WOULD BE 27.
SO WE THINK WE'D WANNA HAVE LIKE COUNCIL MAKING A DECISION IN DECEMBER OF 27.
AND I'M JUST, I'M JUST NOT UNDERSTANDING, BUT Y'ALL SAID YOU WERE STAYING ON THE FIVE YEAR CYCLE, SO I WAS JUST LIKE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW THOSE, UM, TIMES LINE UP.
THE FIVE YEAR IS, OR DO THEY NOT, THE 2021 TEST YEAR PLUS FIVE YEARS IS A 2026 TEST YEAR.
THE 20, THE, THE TEST YEAR RESULTS DON'T COME IN UNTIL THE FOLLOWING YEAR.
SO 2021 TEST YEAR, YOU REVIEW IN 22, 20 26 TEST YEAR, YOU REVIEW IN 27.
SO THAT'S THE FIVE YEAR CADENCE, JUST THE SAME AS LAST TIME I DID.
YOU WOULD LAUNCH THE RATE CASE IN EARLY 27 AND IT WOULD COMPLETE IN 27? YES.
IT IT, IT SHOULD IF IT, IF IT COULD, UM, YES, I BELIEVE IT WOULD BE ABLE TO COMPLETE IN 27.
WELL, I JUST WANTED TO, AS, AS A CO-SPONSOR, WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT LIKE MY INTENTION WAS JUST TO LIKE ENDORSE AUSTIN ENERGY STAIN ON THAT CADENCE.
UM, THE FIVE, FIVE YEAR, UM, SOUNDS LIKE MAYBE THERE'S ACTUALLY NOT A GREAT DISAGREEMENT, UH, OR MAYBE ANY DISAGREEMENT ON, ON THAT.
UH, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ALL ARE STILL HOPING TO GET A RATE INCREASE IN THE MEANTIME AND YOU KNOW, FAIR ENOUGH.
WE DON'T HAVE AGREEMENT ON THAT, BUT I JUST THANK YOU FOR GOING THROUGH THE TIMELINE WITH ME.
THAT WAS MY INTENTION WAS NOT TO TRY TO SPEED THE TIMELINE UP.
I APOLOGIZE IF FOR OUR CONFUSION, I I, OUR INTENT HAS BEEN, YOU KNOW, WE'VE SEEN
[00:40:01]
FROM 2021, LIKE, LIKE JOHN MENTIONED, WE HAD AN 18 MONTH PERIOD OF REGULATORY LAG.SO IT WASN'T UNTIL 2023 THAT WE STARTED RECOVERING FOR 2021 COSTS, AND IN THE MEANTIME WE SAW HISTORIC COST INCREASES ON, ON EVERYTHING THAT AUSTIN ENERGY, UM, ACQUIRES TO, TO BUILD OUT ITS SYSTEM.
AND, UM, WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN THE MEANTIME IS JUST MORE AND MORE INFLATION.
WE'VE SEEN TRANSFORMERS DOUBLE OR EVEN TRIPLE IN COSTS.
AND SO KEEPING UP WITH THAT HAS BEEN HARDER AND HARDER.
AND SO WHAT WE SEE THE NEED TO DO IS CONTINUE ON THE CYCLE OF, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT OUR, UM, AT OUR COST RECOVERY EVERY FIVE YEARS, STAYING ON THAT SAME CYCLE, BUT IT WOULD MAKE THE RATE INCREASES MORE, UM, DRASTIC AND MORE DIFFICULT FOR OUR CUSTOMERS IF WE WAITED AND WE HAD THESE, THESE HUGE SWINGS.
INSTEAD, WE NEED TO KEEP UP WITH THE COST INCREASES.
WE NEED TO KEEP UP WITH INFLATION IN THE MEANTIME.
AND, UM, AND SO THAT'S GOING TO ALLOW US TO HAVE, UM, INCREMENTALISM, YOU KNOW, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE REALLY, WE HEARD VERY CLEARLY IN THE LAST RATE REVIEW WAS AN INCREMENTAL APPROACH TO COST INCREASES IF WE WAITED.
UM, AND INSTEAD OF DOING THESE INCREMENTAL, UM, BUDGET BASED, YOU KNOW, KEEP UP WITH THE INFLATION, WE WOULD SEE MUCH, UM, BIGGER SWINGS IN TERMS OF, UH, MAKING UP FOR THOSE COST INCREASES.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU STILL HAVE OTHER QUESTIONS OR I, WE HAVE OTHER QUESTIONS AL OH, I, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I HAVE OTHER THOUGHTS, BUT, UM, I JUST WANTED TO, I MEAN, I, I THINK WHATEVER THERE WOULD BE MERIT OKAY.
YOU KNOW, I THINK WE HAVE SOME OTHER QUESTIONS TOO LAST YEAR, BUT I, I'M, YEAH, I THINK I UNDERSTAND THE TIMELINE.
I'M, I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE RATE ADEQUACY REVIEW, IS THAT SIMPLY AN INTERNAL REVIEW BY STAFF WHERE YOU SAY, AH, WE'RE 50 BILLION SHORTER IN THE NEXT YEAR? OR IS IT MORE FORMAL THAN IT IS A FILING? IT IS A LETTER ALONG WITH THE REPORT THAT WE FILE WITH CITY COUNCIL.
SO IT'S A, WHAT, IT'S A LETTER ALONG WITH THE REPORT THAT WE FILE WITH CITY COUNCIL TO EXPLAIN TO THEM WHETHER OR NOT OUR RATES ARE SUFFICIENTLY COVERING OUR EXPENSES OR NOT.
AND ONLY IF THEY'RE SIGNIFICANTLY NOT COVERING, THEN THAT KICKS YOU INTO WANTING TO HAVE A SIGNIFICANT RATE INCREASE THAT CAUSES YOU TO HAVE TO HAVE A RATE CASE TO PROVE IT OUT.
IS THAT, I, I THINK THAT DISCUSSION'S JUST GONNA HAVE TO HAPPEN AT THE TIME, BUT, UM, I WOULD SAY THAT WHAT MAY HAPPEN IS AN EXAMPLE, IF WE ARE SHORT, WHICH BASED UPON OUR MOST RECENT PROJECTIONS, WE WILL BE SHORT, UM, A PROPOSAL TO TALK ABOUT A RATE INCREASE WOULD ENSUE, WHICH COULD BE PROCESSED AS A, UM, COST OF SERVICE TYPE FILING, UM, WHERE THEY PROCESS IT JUST LIKE WE DID THE LAST RATE CASE.
OR THEY MAY CHOOSE TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN JUST THE COST OF SERVICE FILING A FULL BLOWN RATE CASE.
SO, UM, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY CONCERN, I DON'T THINK THAT YOU SAID IT WAS CONTROVERSIAL ABOUT MAKING SURE THE BUDGET WAS SUFFICIENT FOR THE CLIMATE ACTION PLAN, RIGHT? I MEAN, DON'T, THAT'S JUST FREE REITERATING.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S CONTROVERSIAL.
I JUST ASSUME IT WOULDN'T BE, IT WOULD NOT BE.
BUT IS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU'VE SEEN THAT WOULD LEAD YOU TO BELIEVE OR SOME OF THE COMMUNITY TO BELIEVE THAT THERE ISN'T GOING TO BE THE BUDGET TO DO THAT? NO, BUT IT'S SIMPLY SAYING AS AN ADVISORY COUNCIL, WE WANNA MAKE SURE AUSTIN ENERGY PUTS IN THEIR, UM, LIKE THEIR COMMUNITY BENEFIT CHARGE AND OTHER, OTHER OPERATING EXPENSES, MAKE SURE THEY'RE, THEY'RE PLANNING TO MEET THOSE GOALS.
'CAUSE THAT WAS SOMETHING WE, YOU KNOW, CITY COUNCIL ADOPTED, SO OKAY.
INCLUDING LOOKING AT TRANSMISSION FRANKLY AS PART OF IT.
I THINK THAT PARTS, UM, SHOULDN'T BE CONTR.
THERE SHOULDN'T BE A, A BIG, THE ONLY THING I SEE LOOKING AGAINST THAT, RIGHT, I SEE.
IS THAT WHEN YOU START LOADING IN, WELL THIS LOOKS LIKE IT'S FOCUSED PURELY ON THE CLIMATE ACTION PLAN.
THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITY ARE WORRIED ABOUT WILDFIRES AND PREVENTIONS BY AUSTIN, ENERGY, TREE TRIMMING, RELIABILITY, ALL THOSE INVESTMENTS THAT ARE ALSO DRIVING SOME OF THE BUDGET THINGS.
UM, WHAT, WHAT I HEAR IS THERE'S BUDGET DEFICIT STILL AND THERE'S AN ATTEMPT TO TRY TO AVOID RATE SHOCK WHEN THE 2027 PROCESS DOES GO ON.
UM, THIS IS FOGGY IN A WAY, BUT WHAT I, I THOUGHT I RECALLED IS PART OF THE LAST RATE CASE THAT WAS CLOSED WAS THE FIXED CHARGE BECAUSE THERE WERE ALL SORTS OF DISCUSSIONS ABOUT 10 25 CAME DOWN TO 15 AND THEN GRADUALLY WENT UP TO 1650.
[00:45:02]
SO THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT WHAT I SEE AS, UM, CITY COUNCIL ADOPTED A RATE IN DECEMBER OF 2022 THAT WENT INTO EFFECT TO MARCH OF 23 THAT SAID, WE'RE GONNA GRADUALLY INCREASE THAT FIXED CHARGE.AND WE'RE GONNA, AND I MIGHT NOT REMEMBER THE RIGHT NUMBERS, BUT I THINK IT WENT FROM, I THINK IT WAS 13 14 15, 3 13, 14 15.
UM, PART OF MY UNCOMFORTABLENESS WITH THESE RATE INCREASES IS THAT WE'RE ADDING TO THAT FIXED CHARGE, UM, WHICH EVERYONE PAYS AND DOESN'T REALLY HAVE A, YOU KNOW, A CONSERVATION INCENTIVE WITHIN IT BECAUSE IT'S JUST A FIXED CHARGE.
UM, AND SO LAST YEAR THEY RAISED IT TO 1650, AND AGAIN, WE HAVEN'T SEEN THE PROPOSAL, BUT I WOULD ASSUME THEY'RE ALSO PLANNING TO RAISE THE FIXED CHARGE AGAIN AS PART OF THE NEXT BUDGET CYCLE.
AND I THINK PART OF THE REASON FOR THIS RESOLUTION IS SAYING, HMM, THAT'S REALLY A RATE QUESTION, A RATE DESIGN QUESTION, UM, AND THAT SHOULDN'T REALLY BE PART OF THE BUDGET PROCESS.
AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT THE ARGUMENT IS ABOUT.
IS THERE ANYTHING YOU CAN COMMENT ON THAT WE HAVEN'T DISCUSSED? ANY IDEAS RELATED TO RATE DESIGN FOR THE UPCOMING BUDGET? AND OF COURSE YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT THAT, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, I JUST KNOW THAT WE WILL REQUIRE SOME TYPE OF RATE INCREASE OR ELSE WE'RE GONNA BE A, A DEFICIT SITUATION.
WE HAVE YET TO DECIDE THE MECHANICS OF HOW THAT'S GONNA PROCEED.
AND WE PROPOSED THAT AS PART OF THE FORECAST LAST YEAR, THAT IT WOULD BE A 5% BASE RATE INCREASE EACH YEAR, THE FIVE YEAR PERIOD.
BUT WE DIDN'T REALLY TALK ABOUT RATE DESIGN IN THE UPCOMING YEARS.
SO, AND THE INCREASE THAT WENT INTO EFFECT LAST YEAR FOR THE CUSTOMER CHARGE WAS 10%.
SO THAT'S WHAT WE DID LAST YEAR FOR, SORRY, FOR FISCAL YEAR 26.
I THINK I CALCULATED IT AS 27%, BUT MY MATH IS SOMETIMES WRONG.
I MEAN, BUT OF THE OVER, IT'S NOT 27% OF THE OVERALL, I'M JUST TRYING TO KEEP YOU OUTTA TROUBLE.
THANKS FOR, SO IS IT JUST, SIR, EVERYBODY CHECKING MY MATH? SORRY.
SO FOR EVERYBODY'S REMINDER, IT WAS A 2% TWO YEARS AGO, 2% LAST YEAR, THEN 5% FOR THIS YEAR.
AND WITH WHAT WE SHOWED LAST YEAR, WE STILL THINK THAT THIS IS GONNA HAPPEN.
THAT BY THE TIME WE GET TO THE END OF THE FIVE YEARS, WE'RE GONNA BE RIGHT AT MEETING ALL OF OUR KEY PERFORMANCE INDICATORS FOR THE CREDIT RATING AGENCIES AND FOR THE CITY'S REQUIREMENTS.
SO THAT'S WHY WE REALLY LIKED THIS IDEA OF, IT'S A NICE BALANCE BETWEEN IMPROVING THE FINANCIAL HEALTHY UTILITY WITHOUT CAUSING ANY RATE SHOCK.
IMAGINE IF WE HAD TO WAIT TWO OR THREE YEARS FOR RATE INCREASE WITHOUT HAVING THOSE IN EFFECT ON TOP OF ALL THE DEFICITS THAT WE'VE ALREADY ACCUMULATED.
IT WOULD BE A VERY SIZABLE RATE INCREASE THAT WOULD HAVE TO HAPPEN.
AND IF WE WERE TO FOLLOW THE SUGGESTION THAT'S IN THE RECOMMENDATION, WE ALREADY KNOW WE'RE GONNA HAVE A RATE INCREASE BASED UPON THE 2025 ACTUAL RESULTS.
UM, YOU KNOW, WE HAD A $42 MILLION DEFICIT LAST YEAR AND WE'RE LOOKING AT A $44 MILLION DEFICIT FOR THIS YEAR, AND THAT'S WITH THE 5% INCREASE.
SO WITHOUT THAT, IT'S, IT'S GONNA BE A DIFFERENT SITUATION.
WHAT GOES THROUGH MY MIND ALSO IS I THINK MY CITY COUNCIL MEMBER, AND HE'S GOT SUPPORT OF A NUMBER OF FOLKS IN THE COUNCIL, THE CITY AUDITS THAT THE NEW PROCESS FOR AUDITING MM-HMM
AND TO PAUL ROBIN'S POINT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, FINDING DUPLICATIONS, ET CETERA, I, I THINK THAT THERE MAY BE MORE POTENTIAL TO FIND, UM, DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITIES TO REDUCE THE REVENUE REQUIREMENT FROM THAT PROCESS VERSUS ACCELERATE IF THEY'RE, IF THEY'RE REALLY EVEN TALKING ABOUT ACCELERATING THE, UH, RATE CASE INTO AN EARLIER TIME PERIOD, WHICH IT'S NOT CLEAR THAT THIS IS REALLY DOING BECAUSE WE MIGHT BE ON FIVE YEARS CYCLES ANYWAY.
I I WILL SAY IF THIS IS SORT OF A DATA REQUEST, UM, IF WHOEVER THE APPROPRIATE PERSON IS CAN ACTUALLY RESPOND BY LAYING OUT WHAT AGAIN THE, THE TIMING OF WHAT YOU BELIEVE THE POTENTIAL RATE REVIEW IS, UM, BECAUSE YOU MENTIONED 18 MONTHS AND IF YOU'RE STARTING IN MARCH OF 27, THAT BRINGS US TILL 20, THE END OF 28, WHICH SEEMS A LITTLE LIKE A LONG, I'M, I'M NOT SURE THAT'S RIGHT.
BUT, AND THAT'S FOR FULL BLOWN RATE CASE, YOU KNOW, COST OF SERVICE FILING, EVERYTHING.
IT'S, IT'S A, IT'S AN EXTENSIVE AND AND EXPENSIVE PROCESS.
AND THAT'S THE OTHER BEAUTY OF THESE BASE RATE INCREASES.
WE'RE NOT INCURRING THE EXPENSE OF A RATE CASE.
BUT YOU'RE ALSO NOT GETTING THE STAKEHOLDER INPUT AND DISCUSSIONS ABOUT HOW WE SHOULD DESIGN RATES.
THAT'S ONE OF THE BEAUTIES OF A RAPE CASES.
[00:50:01]
I GUESS I'M NOT TRYING TO HAVE A DISCUSSION.I'M JUST TRYING TO SAY IF WE CAN HAVE THAT, HOW YOU GUYS FORESEE THE FUTURE, IGNORE THIS RESOLUTION.
JUST KIND OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT, HOW DO YOU SEE THE STEPS IN THAT PROCESS? 'CAUSE I THINK I'M STILL SOMEWHAT CONFUSED ABOUT THE TIMING.
AND THE, AND, AND, UM, STUART RILEY AGAIN, UM, THE, THE PROCESS LAST TIME AROUND, SO LIKE I MENTIONED BEFORE, YOU'VE GOT A 2021 TEST YEAR, YOU GET THE RESULTS OF THAT TEST YEAR IN MARCH, APRIL 20 OR OF MARCH OR APRIL OF 22.
YOU, YOU GET YOUR CONSULTANTS ON BOARD, YOU DO YOUR COST OF SERVICE.
WE, WE ANTICIPATED THAT WE COULD BE DONE WITH THAT PROCESS OCTOBER, NOVEMBER AROUND THAT TIMEFRAME.
UM, IT WAS, IT WAS HARD TO GET ALL THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS TO COUNSEL ON A TIMEFRAME THAT WORKED WITH OTHER AGENDA MATTERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT THAT KIND OF PUSHED IT BACK.
SO THOSE KINDS OF THINGS CAN HAPPEN, UM, AND, AND CAN AFFECT THAT TIMEFRAME.
WE DID EXPECT IT WOULD BE MORE LIKE A NOVEMBER, EVERYTHING WOULD BE DONE, YOU KNOW, IT IT, IT WAS JUST THAT IT GOT PUSHED INTO DECEMBER AND THEN THE, WHEN COUNSEL DID THAT, THE IMPLEMENTATION DATE GOT BOOT MOVED BACK TO MARCH OF 23.
SO IT, IT COULD HAVE, BUT IT WASN'T AN 18 MONTH PROCESS.
IT WAS A FROM NINE MONTH PROCESS OR A LOOKING AT YEAR LOAN PROCESS WHERE YOU GO WHEN YOU LOOKING AT THE REGULATORY LAG FROM WHEN YOUR COSTS ARE BASED OFF OF THAT 2021 TEST YEAR TO WHEN YOU'RE RECOVERING FOR THOSE, THOSE COSTS.
SO YOU WEREN'T RECOVERING YOUR 21 COSTS UNTIL 18 MONTHS LATER.
MEANWHILE, COSTS HAVE BEEN RISING ON YOU THAT WHOLE TIME.
SO THAT'S THE 18 MONTH, IF YOU GO FROM START TO FINISH ON THAT, THAT THAT MIGHT BE WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO.
AND WE NOT SPEAKING THE SAME LANGUAGE.
UM, AND THEN, AND, AND I DO, YOU KNOW, THE, IT'S, IT'S A DIFFICULT TOPIC.
YOU KNOW, ANY, ANY RATE, UH, INCREASE IS, UH, IS JUST NOT FUN FOR ANYONE.
BUT I DO WANT TO REMIND THE COMMISSION THAT WE HAVE THE LOWEST RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER BILLS OF ANY UTILITY IN ERCOT.
UM, BASED ON THE, THE EIA DATA THAT WE HAVE, I THINK WE ALSO LIKELY NOW HAVE THE LOWEST IN TEXAS BECAUSE EL PASO HAS BEEN RAISING THEIR RATES AT A, AT A FASTER CLIP THAN US.
BUT BASICALLY IT LOOKS LIKE, YOU KNOW, BASED ON, BASED ON THE, UH, 2024 EIA DATA THAT WE HAVE, WE'RE THE SECOND LOWEST IN ALL OF TEXAS BEHIND EL PASO, WHICH A LOT DIFFERENT CLIMATE, UH, THE LOWEST RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER BILLS IN ALL OF ERCOT.
AND THAT'S WHEN YOU COUNT THE FACT THAT WE HAVE A CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE PROGRAM THAT'S INDUSTRY LEADING ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAMS THAT ARE IN INDUSTRY LEADING.
YOU GET A LOT A HIGHLY RENEWABLE PORTFOLIO, YOU GET A LOT OF YOUR BANG FOR YOUR BUCK.
AND OUR MONTHLY BILL IS OVER $60 LESS THAN THE TEXAS AVERAGE.
AND PART OF WHY LOOKING AT SOME OF THESE THINGS WE'RE JUST TR WE'RE TRYING TO GET TO A POINT OF COST RECOVERY IN TERMS OF HOW WE'RE DESIGNING OUR RATES AND HOW, HOW WE'RE WE'RE COST RECOVERY UTILITY.
YOU KNOW, WE JUST, WE WE'RE TRYING TO SET RATES TO RECOVER COSTS.
AND AS OUR CUSTOMERS HAVE GOTTEN MORE AND MORE EFFICIENT, THAT'S A GOOD THING.
THAT ALSO MEANS THAT RA, YOU KNOW, THE TIERS HAVE MORE TROUBLE MAKING UP FOR THOSE COSTS BECAUSE THOSE TIER FOUR CUSTOMERS, THEY'RE NOT THERE ANYMORE.
OUR ENERGY EFFICIENCY EFFORTS.
I'VE HAD OTHER UTILITIES CONTACT US AND SAY, CONTACT CALL ME AND SAY, UM, I SAW SOMEWHERE THAT YOUR AVERAGE CUSTOMER USES 833 KILOWATT HOURS A MONTH.
HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE? UM, AND ACTUALLY OUR, OUR, UM, MEDIAN BILL IS MORE LIKE 680 KILOWATT HOURS.
SO IN TERMS OF THE BILLS THAT WE'RE ISSUING, THEY'RE TO CUSTOMERS WHO ARE USING VERY LITTLE ENERGY, UH, THOSE TIER FOUR CUSTOMERS, I THINK, UH, MAYBE 6% OF OUR CONSUMPTION IS IN TIER FOUR.
NOW, THAT'S A VERY GOOD THING, BUT THAT MEANS YOU CAN'T JUST LUMP ALL THE COSTS, THE, THE RATE INCREASES IN TIER FOUR AND THINK YOU'RE GONNA BALANCE THE BOOKS.
SO THESE ARE THE CHALLENGES THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH.
BUT IN THE MEAN, YOU KNOW, AND, AND WE WILL AT SOME POINT LOOK AT THOSE KIND OF, YOU KNOW, RATE DESIGN ELEMENTS.
UM, BUT IN THE MEANTIME WE HAVE TO BALANCE THE BOOKS AND, AND WE HAVE A REALLY, REALLY AFFORDABLE BILL HERE IN AUSTIN WHEN YOU COMPARE US TO THE REST OF THE STATE.
AGAIN, $720 A YEAR COMPARED TO THE TEXAS AVERAGE IS A, IS A PRETTY GOOD STORY WITH ALL, ESPECIALLY WITH ALL THE BENEFITS OUR CUSTOMERS GET.
KABA, YOU HAD YOUR HAND UP AGAIN.
AND NOW I'M LIKE, WHAT WAS IT? BUT I GUESS ONE, ONE THING THAT I'M, I GUESS HEARING, I DID GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE COST OF SERVICE STUDY AND THE RATE FILING PACKAGE THAT WAS FILED LAST TIME AND IT WAS APRIL.
SO, AND IT DOES SEEM TO MATCH UP IN THE, LIKE ACTION, ADDITIONAL ACTION THAT MAYBE IS NEEDED IS LIKE ACTUALLY GETTING, GETTING THE PEOPLE HIRED TO DO DUE THE PROCESS.
[00:55:01]
I AM, YOU KNOW, I I LOVE AUSTIN ENERGY.I REALIZE LIKE YOU MAY SEE ME AS A THORN IN YOUR SIDE, BUT LIKE I AM VERY SUPPORTIVE OF THE UTILITY.
I WANT THE UTILITY TO BE FINANCIALLY SOWN.
I WANT, YOU KNOW, RATES TO BE FAIR, UM, AND FAIR IN A SENSE THAT LIKE THEY ACTUALLY PAY FOR WHAT WE'RE GETTING.
UM, YOU KNOW, I CAN'T SAY WHETHER OR NOT, YOU KNOW, ALL THE MONEY THAT IS BEING, YOU KNOW, REQUESTED THROUGH THESE RATE INCREASES IS 100%, YOU KNOW, NEEDED OR NOT, OR WHETHER, YOU KNOW, AN AUDIT WILL REVEAL THAT THERE IS SOME OPPORTUNITY TO, TO CUT DEBT BACK ON THAT.
BUT I THINK THAT JUST REALLY IS LIKE THE, THE POINT OF THE PROCESS IS LIKE YOU HAVE ANOTHER LENS.
YOU HAVE ACTUALLY MULTIPLE ADDITIONAL LENSES APPLIED TO, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT NOT ONLY, YOU KNOW, HOW IS THE MONEY BEING USED, HOW IS IT PROPOSED? UM, AND UH, YOU KNOW, HOW IS IT BEING DIVIDED BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT CUSTOMER CLASSES? LIKE IS THERE ANY AGREEMENT THAT, UM, THAT THAT APPROACH WHICH IS, IS IN LINE WITH WITH COST CAUSATION.
AND THEN, YOU KNOW, I THINK ESPECIALLY THE ISSUES OF RATE DESIGN IN THE RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER CLASS, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC CITIZEN AND SIERRA CLUB HAVE BOTH, YOU KNOW, JOINED WITH THE CONSUMER ADVOCATE IN THE PAST IN, YOU KNOW, ADVOCATING FOR RATE DESIGN THAT IS, UM, YOU KNOW, BENEFICIAL AS TO AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE TO CUSTOMERS THAT ARE LOWER INCOME, WHETHER THEY QUALIFY FOR CAP OR NOT.
AND THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO DEFINITELY ARE LOW INCOME BUT DON'T QUALIFY FOR CAP.
AND I THINK WE, WE LIKE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT.
UM, AND ALSO THAT ALIGNS WITH THE, YOU KNOW, THE POLICY GOALS AROUND ENERGY CONSERVATION.
AND UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK SEEING LAST YEAR THAT, THAT ALL THAT INCREASE, UH, YOU KNOW, WENT TO THE FIXED CHARGE INTO THE FIRST TIER, YOU KNOW, REALLY, UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK ADDED TO THE, THE BURN OF HAVING TO ACCEPT ANOTHER RATE INCREASE OUTSIDE OF A CO OUTSIDE OF A RATE REVIEW, UM, IN THAT LIKE, YOU KNOW, THOSE WERE THINGS THAT WERE VERY CONTESTED IN THE RATE CASE AND THEY WERE CONTESTED FOR BOTH OF THOSE REASONS BECAUSE THEY HIT, YOU KNOW, LOWER INCOME CUSTOMERS THAT DON'T QUALIFY FOR CAP AND BECAUSE THEY DECREASE THE, UM, THE BENEFIT OF ENERGY CONSERVATION.
SO THEREFORE, YOU KNOW, KIND OF DE-INCENTIVIZE ENERGY CONSERVATION.
AND YOU KNOW, I MEAN I THINK, UH, WE CAN, WE CAN HASH ALL THAT OUT IN A MORE, UM, NUANCED WAY IN A RATE CASE AND UM, HOPEFULLY GET TO ULTIMATELY THE BEST, YOU KNOW, KIND OF, YOU KNOW, MIDDLE GROUND, WHICH IS I THINK WHAT HAPPENED LAST TIME IN THE RIGHT CASE WHERE AE COULD PRETTY MUCH I THINK GOT THE MONEY THAT THE UTILITY WAS ASKING FOR, IT WAS IN A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT UM, WAY.
BUT YOU KNOW, MY REC RECOLLECTION IS THE AMOUNT WAS ABOUT THE SAME.
SO I JUST, UH, YEAH, WANTED TO SAY THAT, THAT LIKE, I DON'T, I WANT AE TO BE LIKE FINANCIALLY SOUND.
I JUST THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT THE CUSTOMERS, UM, HAVE THIS OPPORTUNITY.
UH, AND IT, YOU KNOW, IF AE WAS NOT A PUBLIC UTILITY AND IT WAS JUST A MONOPOLY UTILITY LIKE, YOU KNOW, EL PASO ELECTRIC OR SOMETHING, THEY'D HAVE TO GO TO THE, THE PUBLIC UTILITY COMMISSION FOR THE, FOR AN EVEN MORE IN DEPTH PROCESS THAN THIS.
SO I, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO FOR CUSTOMERS TO, SO WHY DON'T WE SUM THAT UP.
SO WHAT I'VE HEARD THE HOOD SUM THIS UP IS IT'S BUTTON'S ON, OKAY, SO SUM THIS UP.
I'VE HEARD THAT COMMENTS ABOUT THE CONCERNS ABOUT THE FIXED CHARGES INCREASING AND ALSO THE PROGRESSIVITY RATE OF THE TIERS, THE MAIN THINGS I'VE HEARD, RIGHT? CYRUS, IS THAT A QUICK SUMMARY? THAT'S CORRECT, YEAH.
AND SO DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS ABOUT THE FIXED COST? BECAUSE I THINK THERE ARE 72 MUNIS AND 76 CO-OPS, AND I'D LIKE TO SEE, NOT RIGHT HERE REAL TIME, BUT HOW WE COMPARE HOW AUSTIN ENERGY COMPARES NOT TO A SMALL SET OF CHERRY PICKED ONES, BUT TO THE WHOLE GROUP OF 72 AND 76.
SECONDLY, I RECALL 15 YEARS AGO, SOME COMMISSIONERS WERE TALKING ABOUT SOME, I THINK PUSHING THE ENVELOPE IDEAS THAT WERE NOT PASSED ABOUT $45 BECAUSE THE UTILITY IS BASICALLY A LARGE FIXED COST ENTITY WITH A LOT LESS VARIABLE AND THAT DIDN'T PASS.
AND I THINK THAT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO NOT PASS BECAUSE, UH, YOU CAN RECOVER IT WITH VOLUME, IT DISCOURAGES, UH, CONSERVATION AND IT DISCOURAGES EFFICIENCY ON THE UTILITIES PART.
SO THIS RANGE HERE SEEMED TO BE LOGICAL AND IT WAS WHAT WE WENT THROUGH IN 2022, IT'S JUST
[01:00:01]
A LITTLE BIT HIGHER.SO DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS ABOUT THE FIXED CHARGES AND THEN ON THE RATE PROGRESSIVITY, UM, YOU KNOW, IF IT WENT DOWN A LITTLE BIT, I THINK WE WENT FROM FIVE TO FOUR TIERS AND DID THE PROGRESSIVITY, UH, DECLINED THE SLOPE, DECLINED SOME, WHAT ARE YOUR COMMENTS ON THAT? YEAH, WELL I'LL, I'LL START AND UM, JOHN CAN CHIME IN IF I, IF I AM, UM, LEAVING ANYTHING OUT OR MESSING ANYTHING UP.
BUT, UM, IN TERMS OF, SO ON THE FIXED CHARGE COMPONENT, FIRST OF ALL, UM, YOU, YOU'RE CORRECT THAT THERE, THERE'S A, THERE'S A WIDE RANGE OF OPINIONS IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD COMMISSIONERS IN THE PAST WHO THOUGHT IT SHOULD BE 40 OR THAT THEY'RE NOT NEARLY HIGH ENOUGH NOW AND, AND UM, THAT, YOU KNOW, SOME, WHAT WE'VE SEEN AROUND, UM, THE INDUSTRY IS, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF UTILITIES WITH A $25 ISH KIND OF, THAT SEEMS TO BE WHAT'S MORE NORMAL AT THIS POINT.
THERE ARE SOME THAT ARE LOWER.
I THINK CPS ENERGIES IS LOWER, THEY ALSO HAVE HIGHER RATES DURING THE SUMMER.
THEIR CUSTOMERS ALSO USE A LOT MORE IN TERMS OF VOLUME.
UH, SO IT'S, IT'S DIFFICULT IN SOME CASES TO COMPARE, UM, ESPECIALLY LIKE I MENTIONED WITH OUR REALLY EFFICIENT CUST RE RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER BASE.
SO, UM, WE CAN PROVIDE DATA ON THAT.
UM, OUR ONE, ONE THING THAT WE LIKE ABOUT THE FIXED CHARGE IN TERMS OF A, YOU KNOW, A, A PROGRESSIVE STRUCTURE IS THAT OUR CAP CUSTOMERS DON'T PAY THE CUSTOMER CHARGE.
SO IF WE DO ADD TO THE CUS THE CUSTOMER CHARGE, THAT'S A DECREASE TO OUR CAP CUSTOMERS AND IT IS ACCURATE WHAT COMMISSIONER WHITE SAID THAT NOT ALL LOW INCOME CUSTOMERS ARE IN THE CAP PROGRAM, BUT WE'VE GONE ON AN EXTENSIVE EFFORT OVER THE PAST THREE YEARS TO GROW THAT FROM ABOUT 35,000 CUSTOMERS TO ABOUT 85,000 CUSTOMERS ON IN ENROLLED IN THE CAP PROGRAM TO COVER, TO ACCOUNT FOR MORE OF THOSE LOW INCOME CUSTOMERS.
AND SO THAT IS A SUBSTANTIAL SAVINGS TO THEM.
SO LAST YEAR BY DOING THAT, WE WERE ABLE TO LOWER THE CAP CUSTOMER'S BILL.
UM, BUT BECAUSE NOT EVERY LOW INCOME CUSTOMER IS IN CAP AND, UM, BECAUSE ALSO CAP CUSTOMERS USE ACTUALLY MORE ENERGY THAN NON CAP CUSTOMER.
SO THE AVERAGE CAP CUSTOMER BILL IS ACTUALLY MORE THAN THE NON CAP CUSTOMER BILL.
WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS THERE'S NOT NECESSARILY A CORRELATION BETWEEN INCOME AND CONSUMPTION LIKE THERE USED TO BE.
SO IT'S NOT A CLEAR CUT CASE OF, OF, OF PROGRESSIVE REGRESSIVE TO, TO THINK THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THOSE WHO USE MORE SHOULD HAVE HIGHER AND HIGHER RATES HIGHER AND HIGHER TIERS BECAUSE YOU MIGHT ACTUALLY, UM, BE GETTING MORE, UH, TO THOSE LOWER INCOME CUSTOMERS BECAUSE THE HIGHER INCOME CUSTOMERS MIGHT HAVE MORE ABILITY TO BE REALLY ENERGY EFFICIENT THEY MIGHT OWN AND BE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, TAKE ADVANTAGE OF MORE PROGRAMS, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.
SO IT IS A KIND OF A, A DIFFICULT, THERE'S, IT'S A BALANCING ACT AND REALLY FINDING THE RIGHT BALANCE, LIKE YOU MENTIONED, BETWEEN ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT GOALS.
UM, BUT NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, THE MORE YOU USE, THE MORE YOU PAY, WHETHER THEY'RE FLAT, YOU KNOW, WHETHER THERE'S NO TIERS OR EVEN IF THEY WERE DECLINING TIERS LIKE UTILITIES USED TO HAVE, THE MORE YOU USE, THE MORE YOU PAY.
AND HALF OF YOUR BILL ON AUSTIN ENERGY BILL IS THE PASS THROUGH CHARGES.
IT'S A POWER SUPPLY ADJUSTMENT.
IT'S THE CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE PROGRAM CHARGE.
THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY SERVICES CHARGE THE REGULATORY CHARGE.
SO, YOU KNOW, STILL REMEMBER THAT HALF BASE RATES MAKE UP HALF THE BILL.
SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT 5%, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TWO AND A HALF PERCENT BILL IMPACT.
AND, AND ANOTHER DYNAMIC THAT I'VE HEARD ABOUT, I'VE, I'VE MET TWO PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN DOWNTOWN CONDOS THAT ARE QUITE EXPENSIVE.
AND SINCE THEY'RE SO ENERGY EFFICIENT AND THEY'RE OF MODEST SIZE, THEY ACTUALLY ARE IN THE LOWER USAGE TIERS.
SO DO YOU HAVE AN IDEA, IS IT APPROPRIATE TO TALK ABOUT LOW USAGE TIERS VERSUS LOW INCOME? HOW DO YOU SEPARATE THE CONVERSATION ABOUT LOW USAGE, BUT THEY'RE NOT LOW INCOME, RIGHT? RIGHT.
WE, WE DON'T HAVE EVERYONE'S INCOME DATA, BUT WHAT WE CAN DO IS TRY TO CORRELATE AS BEST AS WE CAN.
AND WE HAVE SEEN THAT THERE'S NOT NECESSARILY A, A GREAT CORRELATION ANYMORE BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, LOW USAGE AND LOW INCOME.
I, I, PER MY WIFE AND I USED TO LIVE IN A GREEN BUILDING APARTMENT COMPLEX, AND WE WOULD GET THE AUSTIN ENERGY EMAIL ALERT THAT WOULD SAY, WARNING, YOU USED TWICE AS MUCH ENERGY THAT THIS WEEK AS YOU DID LAST WEEK.
AND IT WAS LIKE, YOU KNOW, $3 VERSUS A DOLLAR 50.
I MEAN, IT WAS INCREDIBLY EFFICIENT.
AND SO, UM, YOU, YOU'RE EXACTLY RIGHT, BUT DO YOU HAVE, I MEAN, IF WE WANT TO TAKE CARE OF OUR COMMUNITY, ESPECIALLY THE LOW AND MEDIUM INCOME, DO WE HAVE AN IDEA OF HOW MANY OF THE FOLKS THAT WE THINK ARE
[01:05:01]
LOW INCOME THAT AREN'T PARTICIPATING IN CAP, BUT MAYBE THEY'RE IN THIS OTHER CATEGORY OF, WELL, WHAT COUNCIL'S GOAL WAS IN, IN OUR CAP EXPANSION, OUR CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE PROGRAM EXPANSION WAS FOR US TO GET CAP ENROLLMENT TO 90% OF THE ELIGIBLE POPULATION.AND, AND WE, WE'VE DONE THAT, UM, WHAT WE, WHAT WE ARE RELATIVELY SURE OF IS WE'RE NEVER GONNA QUITE GET TO EVERYONE.
SO THAT'S WHY THAT GOAL WAS SET AT THE 90% OF ELIGIBLE CUSTOMERS.
AND THAT'S WHERE WE ARE AT THAT 85,000 CUSTOMER KIND OF LEVEL.
AND, AND THAT SAID, AT THAT 200% OF, UH, FEDERAL POVERTY LEVEL IS WHERE THAT MM-HMM
UM, THAT THRESHOLD IS FOR ENROLLMENT UNLESS YOU'RE AUTOMATICALLY ENROLLED FOR OTHER BENEFITS.
OTHER DISCUSSION, AL I THINK, UH, THE CAP PROGRAM IS REMARKABLE AND YOU GUYS HAVE DONE A, A TREMENDOUS JOB.
SO THAT GIVES US A REALLY GREAT SAFETY NET AT THE BOTTOM.
UM, I, I WAS LOOKING AT THIS AND, AND I WANTED TO FOLLOW YOUR IDEA THAT WE, WE FOLLOW THIS ON AN EVERY FIVE YEAR BASIS, WHICH I THINK I UNDERSTOOD FROM
BUT I, I WOULD HESITATE TO SAY WE CAN'T RAISE RATES MODESTLY AND INCREMENTALLY IN THE MEANTIME, OTHERWISE WE'LL HAVE THE WI THE WHIPLASH THAT YOU TALK ABOUT.
SO I THINK IF WE SCHEDULE OUT THE RATE CASE FOR 2027, WE'VE GOTTA ALLOW A MODEST INCREASE BETWEEN NOW AND THEN BECAUSE INFLATION'S GOING UP.
I MEAN, WE, WE KNOW OUR COSTS ARE GOING UP AND WE KNOW THAT ELECTRICAL HARDWARE STUFF IS GOING UP EVEN WORSE.
SO I, I WOULDN'T PUT THE BRAKES ON THAT.
I THINK IT WOULD BE A ENERGETIC DISCUSSION ON HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH MAYBE.
AND MAYBE THAT GOES THROUGH COUNCIL, BUT I, I WOULDN'T STOP IT.
SO, KYLE, DO YOU HAVE YOUR HAND UP AGAIN OR IS THAT RESIDUE FROM THE LAST COMMENT? YEAH, UM, I WAS JUST CURIOUS, YOU KNOW, FOR AL AND ANYBODY ELSE WHO MAYBE FEELS LIKE IT'S TOO URGENT OF A, YOU KNOW, ISSUE, A WAIT FOR E TO INCREASE RATES, IF, IF YOU ALL WOULD, HOW YOU ALLALL WOULD FEEL ABOUT GIVING ANY GUIDANCE ON THE MANNER IN WHICH THEIR RAISED, PARTICULARLY FOR THE RESIDENTIAL CLASS.
UM, AND I'M JUST THINKING LIKE, OKAY, LAST YEAR ALL THE INCREASE WENT TO FIXED COST IN TIER ONE.
LIKE COULD WE BALANCE THAT OUT AT LEAST BY, YOU KNOW, RECOMMENDING THAT THAT THE, UM, THAT THE HIGHER TIERS GET, YOU KNOW, GET THE INCREASE THIS TIME SO WE CAN KIND OF GET BACK AT LEAST TO THE STRUCTURE THAT WAS APPROVED, EVEN IF THE AMOUNTS ARE GOING UP.
UM, SO THAT'S REALLY TALKING ABOUT THE PROGRESSIVITY.
YEAH, YOU'RE, THAT WAS THE CONCERN THERE.
TO LIKE TRY TO GET BACK TO WHERE IT WAS WHEN COUNCIL ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, WHEN, WHEN THE WHOLE PROCESS WAS DONE, NOT JUST COUNCIL, BUT THE, YOU KNOW, WHOLE RATE REVIEW WAS DONE, THERE WAS A CONCLUSION, AND NOW THE CONCLUSION HAS BEEN MUDDIED BY WHAT ARE BEING CHARACTERIZED AS KIND OF LIKE ROUTINE INCREASES THAT ARE NEEDED.
UM, BUT IT'S NOT JUST INCREASING THE AMOUNT OF MONEY, IT'S CHANGING THE FORM AND YEAH.
SO I'M CURIOUS WHAT FOLKS THINK ABOUT THAT.
SO THERE WAS AN ASSERTION THAT THE RATES WERE MORE, WERE REGRESSIVE.
IS THAT ACCURATE OR IS IT ACCURATE TO SAY THEY'RE LESS PROGRESSIVE? WE RAISED THE CUSTOMER FOR, I, I DIDN'T CALL 'EM REGRESSIVE.
DID SOME, IF SOMEBODY ELSE DID, I CAN'T SPEAK TO THAT.
AS FAR AS THE RATE TIER STRUCTURE, DID THEY BECOME ACTUALLY REGRESSIVE OR ARE THEY MERELY LESS PROGRESSIVE? NO, THEY JUST GOT IT GOT FLATTENED.
SO I'M ASKING JOHN, BY INCREASING, I NEED TO GO BACK AND LOOK.
IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, IT WAS A 10% INCREASE IN THE CUSTOMER CHARGE AND THE REST WENT TO THE FIRST TIER.
AND JUST FOR POINT OF REFERENCE, STEWART WAS EXACTLY RIGHT.
6% OF THE CONSUMPTION FOR RESIDENTIAL IS IN THE FOURTH TIER.
SO THERE'S BASICALLY NOTHING THERE REALLY TO ADD TO, TO RECOUP THE CHARGES TO HELP MAKE UP WITH THE DEFICIT.
34% IS IN TIER ONE AND 40% IS IN TIER TWO.
BUT IT'S STILL PROGRESSIVE, RIGHT? IT IS, IT MAY NOT BE AS MUCH AS SOME WOULD LIKE.
I THINK
SO I THINK WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS, AT LEAST WITH LAST YEAR'S DECISION, IT BECAME LESS PROGRESSIVE BECAUSE THE, THE, ALTHOUGH IT WAS A 5% RATE INCREASE OVERALL, IT WAS, AS HE SAID, NOT 27%.
AS I SAID, MY RESOLUTION, WHICH CLEARLY I GOT THE MATH WRONG, BUT, UM, I WAS WONDERING ABOUT THAT.
BUT, UM, IT WAS A 10% INCREASE ON THE FIXED CHARGE.
[01:10:01]
AND THEN I, DID YOU SAY THE REST WENT INTO THE FIRST AND THE REST WENT TO THE FIRST TIER MM-HMMAND SO IT BECAME A LESS PROGRESSIVE RATE, WHICH WAS NOT WHAT CITY COUNCIL AGREED TO.
AND SO I THINK IF WE'RE GONNA HAVE A 5% INCREASE, IN MY MIND, IT SHOULD BE SHARED BETWEEN ALL THOSE.
THAT WOULD BE A MORE APPROPRIATE WAY TO DO IT, TO MATCH WITH, IS THERE THAT DEGREE OF FLEXIBILITY AS YOU DO THESE YEARLY ADJUSTMENTS? UM, I THINK WHAT STUART SAID A MINUTE AGO IS SOMETHING WE NEED TO REMEMBER THAT THE CONSUMPTION, THE HIGHER TIERS IS GOING AWAY.
SO THERE'S, WE EITHER HAVE FEWER TIERS AND PUSH MORE THE INCREASE IN THE LOWER TIERS OR COME UP WITH ANOTHER PLAN.
WE HAVEN'T COME UP WITH A PLAN YET FOR THE INCREASE.
SO IT'S A GOOD TIME TO HAVE CONVERSATION ABOUT IT.
I'M JUST SAYING THERE'S LESS OPPORTUNITY TO INCREASE THE UPPER TIER TO GAIN THE SHORTFALL THAT WE NEED.
CAB HAD ANOTHER COMMENT OR QUESTION, JUST WONDERING, YOU MENTIONED THAT I THINK IT WAS 6% IN TIER FOUR.
WHAT IS THE PERCENTAGE IN TIER THREE? I'M SORRY.
UM, 34% IN TIER ONE, 40% IN TIER TWO, 20% IN TIER THREE, AND 6% IN TIER FOUR.
AND THAT'S RESIDENTIAL ONLY AND ABOUT 50 50%.
SO, I MEAN, AND, AND, UH, SORRY, GO AHEAD.
IT'S MY, IT'S MY RECOLLECTION, UH, THAT IT'S NOT UNTIL YOU GET BETWEEN TIERS TWO AND THREE THAT YOU GET TO COST OF SERVICE.
SO AS WE'RE NOT HAVING ENOUGH CUSTOMERS IN THREE AND FOUR, WHEN YOU HAVE, ALL OF YOUR CUSTOMERS ARE, ARE STAYING IN TIERS ONE AND TWO, THEY'RE STAYING BELOW COST OF SERVICE AND YOU'RE RUNNING OUT OF CUSTOMERS IN THREE AND FOUR TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE.
SO THAT'S THE CHALLENGE OF, OF TRYING TO, UM, LIKE I SAID, OF OF TRYING TO BALANCE THE BOOKS WHEN YOUR CUSTOMERS ARE GETTING MORE AND MORE EFFICIENT.
EFFICIENT, WHICH IS REALLY A GOOD THING.
WE JUST NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE, WE'RE DOING IT THE RIGHT WAY.
MAYBE I MISSED, WHAT WAS THE TIER THREE NUMBER I MISSED? I THINK I WROTE IT WRONG.
TIER THREE WAS 20, SO 34 IN TIER ONE, 40 IN TIER TWO, 20 IN TIER THREE, AND 6% IN TIER FOUR.
SO I MEAN, I I I HEAR YOUR POINT THAT THERE'S FEWER, BUT THERE'S STILL 26% OF THE DEMAND IS COMING FROM TIER THREE AND FOUR.
UM, AND FOR THAT MATTER, TIER TWO DIDN'T GET ANY INCREASE LAST TIME EITHER.
SO WE'RE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING, IT LOOKS LIKE 66% OF, OF THE COST RECOVERY IS IN TIERS TWO, THREE, AND FOUR.
UM, IT SEEMS LIKE IT SHOULD BE POSSIBLE TO APPLY THE INCREASE TO THAT.
AND I'M, I GUESS I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE LIKE JUSTIFICATION WAS FOR NOT JUST APPLYING IT EVENLY IN THE LAST GO AROUND.
SO CYRUS, WHAT, WHAT DO YOU WANNA DO? UM, SO THIS IS WHERE I GET CONFUSED ABOUT.
SO, UM, WE ARE SUPPOSED TO GIVE RECOMMENDATIONS ON THE BUDGET, UM, BUT WE'RE HAVING TO GIVE A RECOMMENDATION ON A RATE INCREASE THAT WE HAVEN'T, THAT WE THINK IS COMING, THAT WE HAVEN'T ACTUALLY SEEN.
UM, SO I DON'T KNOW IF THE BEST COURSE IS TO, UM, I'LL LAY THIS OUT AND YOU CAN JUST AGREE KIBA IS TO, UM, TONIGHT JUST PAST THE PART OF THE RESOLUTION THAT SAYS WE WANT YOU TO CONTINUE TO MEET THE CLIMATE ACTION GOALS NEXT MONTH.
ALLOW US TO HEAR JOHN KAUFMAN TO GIVE US PRESENTATION, ALLOW MAYBE YOU GUYS TO GIVE US SOME OF THE TIMELINE ON THE, ON THE, UM, ON THE RATE CASE, BUT ALSO WHAT ARE SOME OPTIONS ON THE POTENTIAL, UH, RATE INCREASE AS PART OF THE BUDGET.
AND THEN WE CAN HAVE THAT DISCUSSION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHETHER THIS COMMISSION WOULD PREFER IT BE EQUITABLY DISTRIBUTED VERSUS ONLY IN TIER ONE AND IN THE FIXED CHARGE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
UNLESS YOU THINK WE CAN TAKE ACTION TONIGHT, I JUST DON'T KNOW THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE, I I, I SEE THIS AS SIX MONTHS.
WELL-MEANING I SEE IT AS SOMETHING THAT'S BRINGING UP A, A GOOD ISSUE TO THINK ABOUT.
I THINK THAT WE'LL HAVE MORE DATA NEXT MONTH AFTER THE PRESENTATION.
YOU KNOW, IT PICKED MY INTEREST WHEN HE SAID, WELL, THERE USED TO BE A GOOD PROCESS AND THEN SOMEHOW WE, BUT I DON'T UNDERSTAND, WAS 2022 A GOOD PROCESS? ARE WE, WHAT IS SUPPOSEDLY FALLING DOWN HERE? BECAUSE THE LOGICAL, IF WE STILL HAVE THESE DEFICITS, THEY HAVE TO INCREASE.
AND WE'VE SEEN DEFINITELY INFLATION, I'VE HEARD GOOD POINTS PERSONALLY ABOUT, WELL, ARE
[01:15:01]
WE DECREASING TOO MUCH THE PROGRESSIVITY MM-HMMRIGHT? AND CONSIDERING ENOUGH THE FIXED ASPECTS OF IT.
SO I, I'D JUST LIKE TO SEE US KEEP THIS, MAYBE SIMPLIFY IT, TUNE IT UP, AND PUT ON THE AGENDA AFTER THE CONVERSATION NEXT MONTH OR THE PRESENTATION NEXT MONTH TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS A GOOD RATE MAKING PROCESS AND WHERE SUPPOSEDLY IT'S FALLING DOWN.
AND ALSO I'D LIKE TO PUT ON THE AGENDA, MY PERCEPTION IS IF THERE'S CONCERNS ABOUT THE, UH, REVENUE ADEQUACY COVERING THINGS THAT MAYBE DON'T NEED TO BE COVERED BECAUSE THEY WERE DOUBLE COUNTED OR WHATEVER MM-HMM
UM, I, I THINK THAT ACROSS THE CITY OF AUSTIN AND AUSTIN ENERGY AS A DEPARTMENT, THE, THE NEW IDEA OF THE AUDITS MIGHT BE MORE, HAVE MORE POTENTIAL TO HELP WITH THAT ISSUE BECAUSE IT'LL BE A MACHINE THAT GOES THROUGH AND HAS A PROCESS THAT, AND IT'LL BE TOPPED DOWN DRIVEN.
SO I THINK IT'LL HAVE THE FULL ATTENTION OF EVERY DEPARTMENT KABA WELL TO BRINGING IT BACK NEXT MONTH.
ESPECIALLY IF, UH, YOU KNOW, IF STAFF ARE, YOU KNOW, UP FOR DOING WHAT YOU DESCRIBED AND, AND KIND OF BRINGING BACK.
AND MAYBE IF YOU HAVE MORE INPUTS ABOUT HOW THE CITY AUDIT PROCESS WILL HAPPEN FOR THOSE WHO HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT, WELL MAYBE THERE'S, THERE'S THINGS IN THE CITY OF AUSTIN'S BUDGET AS WELL AS AES THAT COULD BE MORE EFFICIENTLY OR AT LOWER COST PERFORMED.
WE READ ABOUT THAT IN THE PAPER, THE, THE IDEA OF THE AUDITS.
BUT PERSONALLY, I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT IT TO SAY, IS THIS A, A GREAT SUBSTITUTE OR ACTUALLY A BETTER SUBSTITUTE TO QUESTION HOW MUCH IS REALLY NEEDED FOR REVENUE ADEQUACY SUBSTITUTE FOR RATE REVIEW? NO, NO, NO, NO.
FOR, OH, FOR TRYING TO BRING IT IN A YEAR.
IF ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS BROUGHT UP WAS, WELL, LET'S GO REVIEW THE REVENUE ADEQUACY BY PULLING IN MORE QUICKLY THE RATE REVIEW.
IT'S LIKE, WELL, MAYBE THE MANAGEMENT BANDWIDTH ACROSS THE CITY SHOULD BE FOCUSING ON THOSE AUDITS.
I PERSONALLY WAS NOT TRYING TO MAKE IT HAPPEN MORE QUICKLY.
I I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, TO THE QUESTION OF LIKE, WHAT I THINK JOHN WAS, UH, SPEAKING TO IN TERMS OF WHAT FELL DOWN, IT'S KEPT RATE INCREASES WITHOUT THE REVIEW.
NOT THAT THERE WAS A PROBLEM WITH THE REVIEW PROCESS, IT'S IT'S THE WHOLE IDEA.
THAT LIKE, THAT THERE WOULD BE RATE INCREASES WITHOUT A REVIEW.
I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, UM, BUT CAN I GO AHEAD AND MAKE A MOTION TO ADOPT, I GUESS IT'S THE LAST PARAGRAPH THAT JUST SAYS, AUSTIN ENERGY HAS BEEN IMPLEMENTING AUSTIN RESEARCH GENERATION CLIMATE PROTECTION PLAN 2035.
HOWEVER, IN ORDER TO CONTINUE TO MAKE PROGRESS TOWARDS MEETING THE GOALS AND THE PLAN, AUSTIN ENERGY SHOULD ASSURE THAT THE BUDGET IS SUFFICIENT TO MAKE PROGRESS IN MEETING THE GOALS.
AND THEN I LIST SOME OF THOSE GOALS.
AND AUSTIN ENERGY SHOULD ALSO CONTINUE TO SHARE THE BUDGET INCLUDES PROVISIONS TO INCREASE LOCAL TRANSMISSION CAPACITY, INCREASE RELIABILITY, REDUCE CONGESTION COSTS, AND BRING MORE POWER INTO THE SERVICE AREA.
SO JUST, I MEAN, THAT'S A GREAT STATEMENT.
ALL OF US WANNA BE GOOD SERVANTS TO THE PLANET, BUT DON'T YOU THINK THEY'RE DOING THAT PLUS WHEN YOU FORGET OTHER THINGS, LIKE THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN WITHOUT POWER, THEY WANNA SEE RELIABILITY MM-HMM
AND THEY WANNA SEE WILDFIRES, WE START LOADING IN ALL THE OTHER THINGS THAT COULD BE EVEN HIGHER PRIORITY.
SO THE CRAFTING OF THIS SEEMS HARMLESS, BUT IT CAN, UM, IT DOESN'T, IT'S NOT INCLUSIVE ENOUGH, I THINK OF SOME OF THE PRIORITIES OF ENOUGH.
I WAS TRYING TO MAKE A MOTION FOR A BUDGET RECOMMENDATION TO MEET THE GOALS OF THE, OF THE, TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE SUFFICIENT BUDGET TO MEET THE GOALS OF THE PLAN FOR 2027.
SO I'D LIKE TO MAKE THAT MOTION BASED ON THAT LAST PARAGRAPH.
I CAN, I REQUEST THAT YOU REDLINE WHAT YOU'RE DOING.
I MEAN, ARE YOU KEEPING ALL OF THE RATIONALE, WHAT ARE YOU KEEPING AND NOT KEEPING? AND CAN YOU SEND THAT TO ME? CAN WE GO TO THE NEXT ITEM AND THEN PULL THAT UP SO THAT WE HAVE A CLEAN COPY OF WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING? OKAY.
I MEAN, PERSONALLY, I LIKE ALL THIS, BUT MY WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD'S THREATENED BY WILDFIRES.
SO SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T HAVE AN EQUAL PRIORITY ON LIFE CRITICAL BUDGET PRIORITIES.
I, I JUST HAVE A CONCERN WITH THAT.
AND SOMEONE WHO'S HAD THEIR HOUSE WITHOUT POWER FOR, YOU KNOW, MOST OF A WEEK, THE RELIABILITY THING IS A BIG THING TOO.
[01:20:02]
SO WE COULD ADD THAT RIGHT.AND I JUST DON'T KNOW IF IT'S, WHY DON'T WE TAKE IT OFFLINE AND ADD TO THOSE THINGS TO HAVE A MORE FULL SET OF PRIORITIES THAT THE COMMUNITY, I THINK HAS.
I, I'M ALL IN FAVOR OF ALL THIS FOR SURE, BUT I GUESS THE QUESTION I HAVE IS, IS THERE ANY SUPPOSITION THAT THAT'S NOT IN THE BUDGET? I MEAN, I GUESS STAFF COULD, YOU KNOW, SAY, YEAH, WELL GREAT, WE'VE GOT THIS ALL COVERED AND THEN I'M GONNA WITHDRAW THE MOTION.
SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF WORK FOR THAT.
WELL, YEAH, WE COULD ASK THE QUESTION IS, IS ARE THESE THINGS ADEQUATELY COVERED IN YOUR PLANS AND BUDGET? I DON'T KNOW THAT THEY HAVE THEIR BUDGET YET.
SO, UM, I THINK THE POINT, UH, YOU KNOW, AND, AND CYRUS, YOU MENTIONED IT EARLIER, UM, ABOUT THE TIMING IS A LITTLE BIT WEIRD BECAUSE YOU'RE BEING ASKED TO MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS BEFORE YOU'VE SEEN THE BUDGET.
WELL, WE HAVEN'T EVEN DEVELOPED OUR BUDGET YET.
AND SO KIND OF THE, I THINK THE BEST EXERCISE OUT OF THIS IS WE'RE HE, WE HEAR YOU WE'RE LISTENING, YOU KNOW, WE OBVIOUSLY RESOURCE GENERATION PLAN IS, UH, YOU KNOW, ONE OF OUR TOP PRIORITIES AS IS OUR ELECTRIC SYSTEM RELIABILITY, RESILIENCY PLAN, UM, AND ADDRESSING WILDFIRE AND ALL THOSE RELIABILITY NEEDS THAT, THAT ELECTRIC SYSTEM RESILIENCY PLAN IS A 10 YEAR, $735 MILLION PLAN.
UM, THERE'S BOUND TO BE, UH, EVEN THOUGH WE'RE STILL IN BUDGET DEVELOPMENT, I'M TELLING YOU THERE'S, THERE HAS TO BE, UH, YOU KNOW, SIGNIFICANT INVESTMENT ON, IN THE COMING BUDGET YEAR, JUST LIKE THERE WILL BE OUR COMMITMENTS TO THE RESOURCE GENERATION PLAN.
SO, UM, AND, AND HONESTLY, YOU KNOW, I, I HEAR YOU ALL WHEN IT, WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO, TO RATE DESIGN AND WANTING TO KEEP A, A PROGRESSIVE STRUCTURE AS WELL.
SO, UM, YEAH, WE'RE HERE, WE'RE LISTENING AND, UM, YOU WILL HAVE A CHANCE TO, UM, PROVIDE YOUR, TO WEIGH IN ON THAT PROPOSAL WHEN THE BUDGET COMES, UM, AND, AND SO THAT, THAT WILL COME BEFORE THIS COMMISSION.
AND, UM, I THINK THE OPPORTUNITY NOW OF KIND OF DAYLIGHTING OR HIGHLIGHTING OR MENTIONING ANYTHING THAT MIGHT NOT ALREADY BE ON OUR RADAR IS KIND OF THE, PERHAPS THE POINT OF THE TI THE WAY THAT THE TIMING IS LAID OUT THROUGH THIS PROCESS THAT WE'RE FOLLOWING.
I'LL WITHDRAW THE MOTION MAINLY 'CAUSE I'M TIRED TO TRY TO REWRITE IT AT THIS POINT.
[12. Discussion of transmission import capacity into the Austin load zone needed to achieve Austin Energy’s Resource Generation Plan goals by 2035. (Sponsors: Braden, Tuttle, White) ]
NUMBER 12, DISCUSSION OF TRANSMISSION IMPORT CAPACITY INTO THE AUSTIN LOAD ZONE NEEDED TO ACHIEVE AUSTIN ENERGY'S RESOURCE GENERATION PLAN GOALS BY 2025.COMMISSIONER BRADEN, I THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
UH, I GUESS WITH, WITH NO STAFF PRESENTATIONS TONIGHT, IT'S UP TO THE COMMISSION TO PROVIDE THE, THE PRESENTATIONS.
UH, THIS IS A PICTURE OF THE CRESS LINES BEING BUILT.
AND THEY WERE, THEY WERE GONNA SOLVE ALL OUR PROBLEMS UNTIL WE FILLED 'EM UP.
UH, I WANNA TALK ABOUT TRANSMISSION BECAUSE IT'S SO IMPORTANT THAT WE KEEP ASKING FOR, WELL, WE WANT A STAFF REPORT ON TRANSMISSION AND IT, IT KIND OF, I KNOW THE STAFF'S WORKING ON IT, BUT I, I I JUST WANT TO ADD EMPHASIS TO IT AND ADD THE IMPORTANCE OF WHY TRANSMISSION IS SO IMPORTANT TO THE GENERATION PLAN.
UM, THERE'S THREE BASIC LEVELS OF TRANSMISSION.
UH, THE FIRST IS ERCOT, ALL THE WIRES ACROSS THE STATE OF TEXAS.
HOW DO WE GET POWER FROM OR SOLAR PANELS IN PECOS TO A RESTAURANT IN SOUTH AUSTIN? NEXT IS THE, UH, AUSTIN ENERGY, HIGH VOLTAGE TRANSMISSION.
HOW DOES AUSTIN CONNECT TO THE HIGH VOLTAGE GRID? AND I THINK THAT'S A REALLY BIG CONSTRAINT TOO.
AND THIRD IS THE DISTRIBUTION GRID.
WE WON'T, I WON'T BRING UP TONIGHT.
I KNOW THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE WORKING ON IT, AND THAT'S IMPORTANT, BUT IT'S, IT'S NOT PART OF THIS PART.
SO LET'S GO TO THE FIRST SLIDE.
UH, WE HEAR THAT AUSTIN ENERGY IS CHALLENGED TO IMPORT ENOUGH POWER.
THERE'S NOT ENOUGH CAPACITY IN THE LINES TO BE ABLE TO TAKE THE LINES OFFLINE TO MODERNIZE THEM.
AND THERE'S NOT ENOUGH IN TOWN GENERATION TO SUPPORT THE OUTAGES THAT ARE NEEDED FOR THAT WORK EITHER.
UH, SO THEREFORE, WE'RE TOLD WE NEED PEAKERS.
WELL, UH, THE PEAKERS WON'T BE READY TILL 2030 OR LATER.
AND TRANSMISSION IS A GOOD WAY TO GET THERE.
WE CAN BUILD INCREMENTAL TRANSMISSION IMPROVEMENTS, BATTERIES, AND SOLAR IN THAT SAME AMOUNT OF TIME.
UH, AUSTIN ENERGY HISTORICALLY RELIED ON INTOWN GENERATION WITH GAS AND OIL SINCE THE 1950S.
AND I'LL SHOW YOU A SLIDE IN JUST A MINUTE, WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE.
UH, SO WE WERE VERTICALLY INTEGRATED, PROVIDED ALL OF OUR OWN POWER.
[01:25:01]
WE HAD GAS PLANTS IN TOWN.WE HAD A COUPLE WIRES OUT TO FAYETTE AND TO SOUTH TEXAS.
AND THE REST OF THE WORLD DIDN'T MUCH MATTER UNTIL DEREGULATION CAME ALONG.
SO AUSTIN ENERGY WAS VERY FOCUSED ON GENERATING EXACTLY WHAT IT NEEDED IN TOWN.
BUT NOW BECAUSE OF THAT HISTORY, WE'RE KIND OF LIMITED IN WHAT WE CAN PULL IN AND IT'S ONLY BECOME MORE AND MORE OF A CONSTRAINT AS WE TRIED TO BRING IN MORE AND MORE RENEWABLES.
SO IN FACT, BETWEEN BEFORE WE STARTED BRINGING IN RENEWABLES, WE WERE KIND OF ALL SET.
SO LET'S GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE.
HERE'S A MAP OF AUSTIN ENERGY GRID.
UH, AND THIS IS SOMETHING I FOUND IN THE 2023 WHEN WE WERE WORKING ON THE GENERATION PLAN WORKING GROUP.
UH, I THINK TRUMP HAS PULLED IT OFFLINE NOW, SO IT'S HARDER TO ACCESS, BUT
AND THEN WE BUILT DECKER OUT OF TOWN, WHICH IS NOW AT THE EDGE IN TOWN,
UH, BUT ALL OF THIS WAS IN OUR LOCAL AREA.
IT WAS IN OUR LOAD ZONE, AND THEN WE BUILT SANDHILL.
SO EXCEPT FOR FAYETTE, WHICH IS WAY DOWN THE BOTTOM CORNER AND, UH, STP, WHICH WOULD BE A LITTLE OFF THE EDGE, WE WERE SELF-SUFFICIENT, VERTICALLY INTEGRATED.
AND THAT'S HOW OUR GRID WAS BUILT TO SATISFY THAT NEED.
THERE'S SOME HIGH VOLTAGE LINES ON THE EAST SIDE OF TOWN, BASICALLY THE, THE DARKER THE LINE, THE BIGGER THE WIRE.
UH, SO THERE IS THE 306 45 KV LINES TO THE EAST THAT WE CAN TAP INTO.
BUT RIGHT THERE AT NUMBER THREE AT DECKER IS REALLY OUR MAIN POINT OF CONNECTION TO THE WORLD.
SO IF WE BRING POWER IN FROM PANKA, IT'S GOTTA COME AROUND SOMEHOW.
IT'S GOTTA COME DOWN AND IT'S GONNA CIRCLE BACK INTO DECKER.
AND THAT'S HOW WE KIND OF GET IT.
AND, UH, WE'RE KIND OF AT THE END OF THE WIRE WHEN IT COMES TO OUR REALLY REMOTE RESOURCES.
AND THAT'S WHY WE'VE HAD SO MUCH TROUBLE WITH CONGESTION.
UH, THE EARLY PROJECTS COULD BE HANDLED BY THE CRESS LINES BECAUSE IT WAS A WILD FRONTIER.
AND WE WERE, FIRST AUSTIN ENERGY REALLY DEVELOPED THE WIND INDUSTRY WHEN WITH THE GREEN CHOICE PROGRAM.
AND WE LED THE WAY IN RENEWABLE WITH SOLAR.
IT WAS 600 MEGAWATTS BACK IN 2016, BUT THOSE LINES FILLED UP.
AND, UH, NOW WE'VE STRUGGLED BOTH TRYING TO GET ENOUGH POWER ACROSS TEXAS AND TRYING TO GET ENOUGH INTO AUSTIN, BUT LOOKING JUST AT THE, INTO AUSTIN PART OF THE GRID, UH, WE CLOSED DECKER AND THE STEAM PLANT IN 2023 AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THERE'S A 700 MEGAWATT GAP.
AND PEOPLE ON STAFF SAID, HEY, WE'RE GONNA HAVE A GAP.
AND WHEN WE CLOSED THE PEAKERS, THAT'S ANOTHER 200 MEGAWATTS.
AND WHEN WE CLOSE SANDHILL WITH THE GENERATION PLAN CALLS FOR, THAT'S ANOTHER SEVEN, 600 MEGAWATTS.
SO WE'VE GOT A REAL SHORTAGE OF GETTING POWER INTO TOWN AND WE'VE GOT 10 YEARS LEFT TO DO IT.
SO WE'RE CONCERNED MAYBE ABOUT THE DECKER PEAKERS RIGHT NOW.
THEY'RE KIND OF A, A FLASHPOINT.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TWO GIGAWATTS OF POWER THAT WE REALLY NEED TO BE ABLE TO BRING IN FROM THE OUTSIDE MORE EFFECTIVELY.
SO IN THE 2023, THE AUSTIN ENERGY, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.
DID A REALLY BIG STUDY OF, UH, NEXT SLIDE AFTER THAT.
YEAH, A BIG STUDY OF TRANSMISSION PLANNING, WHICH TRIED TO ADDRESS, OKAY, HOW ARE WE GONNA DO THAT? WE CAN'T ACHIEVE THE GENERATION PLAN IF WE DON'T GET MORE WIRES.
UH, AS ALWAYS, WE STUDIED A MILLION SCENARIOS, BUT AMONG THE SCENARIOS IS WHAT IF WE CLOSE ALL OUR GAS PLANTS BY 2029? AND I THINK THIS IS THE SLIDE THAT APPLIES TO THE NEXT SLIDE.
AND ALL THE, THE ACTUAL GRID IS KIND OF FUZZY 'CAUSE IT'S SECRET.
IT'S ALL DONE IN THE BASEMENT.
WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IT MEANS.
BUT WHAT WE SEE IS TO ACHIEVE THE GEN PLAN RESULTS OF ZERO CARBON, WE NEED HUGE AMOUNTS OF IMPORTED POWER COMING FROM THE EAST BECAUSE THAT'S HOW OUR LOCAL GRID IS STRUCTURED TO HAVE POWER COMING FROM THE EAST.
BUT THAT ALSO HAS A CONSEQUENCE OF NEXT SLIDE.
THE RECOMMENDATIONS WERE, UH, WE NEED A LEAST ANOTHER 345 KILOWATT SOURCE TO BRING POWER INTO TOWN.
WE NEED HUGE AMOUNTS OF REACTIVE POWER TO DEAL WITH THE FACT THAT ALL OF OUR POWERS COMING FROM THE EAST AND PEOPLE ON THE WEST SIDE OF TOWN ARE GETTING VOLTAGE SAGS AND ALL THAT.
SO WE NEED A LOT OF EXTRA WORK
[01:30:01]
IN THE SYSTEM TO KEEP THE VOLTAGE STABLE THROUGHOUT THE CITY.AND IF WE HAVE AGGRESSIVE GROWTH, UH, WE'LL NEED SOME MORE 340 KILOVOLT LINES.
SO THIS IS BUILDING OUT OUR LOCAL TOPOGRAPHY AND OUR LOCAL ABILITY TO IMPORT POWERS IS SUPER IMPORTANT.
AND, UH, ERCOT BY MARKET DESIGN, THE TRANSMISSION PROVIDERS CAN'T COORDINATE WITH THE GENERATORS.
SO AUSTIN ENERGY CAN'T GO HAVE A, YOU KNOW, A WEEKEND SEMINAR AND SAY, OKAY, TRANSMISSION AND GENERATION, WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO? THEY CAN ONLY DEAL WITH WHAT'S PUBLICLY KNOWN.
AND SO WE HAVE TO COUNT ON, OKAY, TRANSMISSION, WE NEED SOME MORE AND GENERATION SAYING, HEY, WE NEED MORE OF THIS, AND WHATEVER'S PUBLIC CAN BE SHARED, UH, BUT WE NEED THAT TRANSMISSION CAPACITY, OR WE NEED TO CONTINUE USING THE FOSSIL FUEL PLANTS.
AND, UH, OF COURSE WE WANT TO MEET THE GEN PLANT GOALS.
WHAT I'M TRYING TO BRING THIS UP IS, 'CAUSE I DON'T THINK THIS GETS AS MUCH ATTENTION.
WE WORK ON THE GENERATION PLAN EXTENSIVELY EVERY FEW YEARS WE HAVE BIG MEETINGS AND WE GO TO A COUNCIL IN A EOC, BUT THIS IS AN EQUALLY IMPORTANT PART OF OUR WORK TO BE ABLE TO MEET THAT GENERATION PLAN.
SO TALKING ABOUT BUILDING OUT THE LOCAL TOPOGRAPHY, BUT ALSO, OKAY, GREAT.
WHAT ABOUT GETTING THE POWER FROM WEST TEXAS? UH, AND THAT'S WHERE ERCOT HAS COME THROUGH WITH THEIR NEW, UH, SUPERHIGHWAY.
TH THIS IS A VERY FAMILIAR CHART.
THIS IS OUR SORT OF DAILY CHART OF WHAT HAPPENED.
BUT AS FAR AS IMPORTING POWER, IF WE HAVE BATTERIES IN TOWN, ALL OF THOSE PEAKS, THE RED PEAKS OF BATTERY POWER, THIS IS ERCOT SHOWING THAT 11% OF THE POWER THIS ONE MORNING WAS BATTERIES.
UH, BUT IF WE HAVE THOSE BATTERIES IN TOWN, WE'RE USING OUR TRANSMISSION LINES AT NIGHT TO BRING THE POWER IN.
THEN WHEN WE NEED IT THE MOST, WE'VE GOT THAT POWER ALREADY STORED UP AND WE'VE GOT THE POWER LINES ABLE TO BRING IN MORE.
SO THIS IS SORT OF THE GENERAL, A GENERAL STRATEGY WHERE BATTERIES CAN HELP US A LOT.
UH, AUSTIN ENERGY IS ALWAYS SHOWING US, UH, CHARTS OF CONGESTION WHERE POWER IS SUPER EXPENSIVE IN TOWN, SUPER CHEAP IN WEST TEXAS, AND WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO ABOUT IT? AND THAT THOSE ARE TRUE, THOSE ARE TRUE CHARTS.
UH, BUT THESE ARE CHANGE EVERY FIVE MINUTES.
AND SO WHAT REALLY COUNTS IS OVER THE COURSE OF THE WHOLE YEAR, WHAT, WHAT, HOW DOES IT ALL ADD UP? AND THIS IS JUST A COUNTERPOINT.
THIS IS, UH, SHOWING THAT ENERGY IS TOTALLY FREE IN TEXAS EVERYWHERE.
THAT WAS ONLY FIVE MINUTES THOUGH.
THIS IS, THIS SHOWS THE CONGESTION.
AND THIS IS KIND OF AN EXTREME CASE.
IT'S NOT A HIGH DOLLAR CASE, BUT IT IS AN EXTREME PAINTING OF HOW THE CONGESTION IS WHERE WE GOT MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF WIND IN THE PANHANDLE IN WEST TEXAS AND WE JUST CAN'T GET IT ACROSS THE WIRE.
SO THIS IS THE PROBLEM WE'RE TRYING TO SOLVE.
AND NEXT SLIDE, UH, THIS IS WHERE ERCOT CAME IN AND SAID, WE'RE GONNA TRY AND SOLVE THIS.
THIS IS THE NEW 765 KILOVOLT TRANSMISSION GRID THAT'S PLANNED TO BE READY BY ABOUT 2030.
AND EACH OF THOSE LINES AT 765 KILOVOLTS CAN HANDLE FIVE TIMES AS MUCH POWER AS A 345 KILOVOLT LINE.
SO YOU'RE LOOKING AT 15 345 KILOVOLT LINES GOING EAST TO WEST THAT CAN BREAK DOWN THAT EAST TO WEST TRANS UH, CONGESTION.
NOW THEY DIDN'T DO THAT JUST FOR US.
THEY REALLY DID IT FOR THE OIL PATCH BECAUSE THE OIL PATCH IS FOUND THAT IT'S CHEAPER TO ELECTRIFY.
AND SO THEY SAID, WE CAN'T GET ENOUGH POWER OUT HERE.
CAN YOU HELP US? AND THEY SAID, SURE, WE'LL SEND MARTIN LAKE POWER OUT TO YOU AT NIGHT WHEN THE SUN'S NOT SHINING AND THE WIND'S NOT BLOWING.
BUT IN THE CONTEXT OF DOING THAT, IT HELPS EVERYBODY BECAUSE THIS JUST PROVIDES MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF POWER FLOW EAST TO WEST.
AND WE CAN BE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT.
SO WE NEED A SECOND, WE NEED A UPDATE OR WE EUC HOPES TO HAVE AN UPDATE OF THE TRANSMISSION PLAN JUST TO SEE THAT WE'RE ACHIEVING THE LOCAL GOALS WE HAVE.
AND THEN WE NEED A SECOND SERIOUS LOOK, AND I THINK YOU ALL ARE ON BOARD WITH THIS, IS WE NEED A SERIOUS LOOK AT HOW CAN WE TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS AMOUNT OF POWER THAT WE CAN MOVE
[01:35:01]
AROUND THE STATE NOW THAT WE COULDN'T BEFORE.AND THAT CAN HELP BREAK DOWN OUR CONGESTION.
SO NEXT SLIDE, TO MEET OUR ZERO CARBON GOALS.
UH, WE'VE GOT TRANSMISSION OPPORTUNITIES COUPLED WITH SMART USE OF BATTERIES AND LOCAL POWER, LOCAL SOLAR.
AND UH, I THINK WE CAN GET TO CARBON FREE 2035.
THESE ARE THINGS THAT DIDN'T EXIST WHEN WE STARTED THIS PLAN 15 YEARS AGO.
SOLAR WAS UNEX, UNAFFORDABLE, BATTERIES WERE UNAFFORDABLE.
SO WE'RE, WE HAVE A CHANCE OF DOING THIS.
LET ME SHOW YOU WHAT THE OTHER CITIES OR PEER CITIES ARE DOING FOR TRANSMISSION THOUGH, OR HAVE DONE.
UH, THESE ARE THINGS THAT HAVE BUILT UP OVER TIME.
HERE'S AUSTIN, AS I SHOWED YOU BEFORE, JUST WITH THE POWER LINES TO THE EAST MOSTLY AND VERY DIFFICULT FOR US TO GET POWER FROM THE WEST.
UH, IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE IS DALLAS-FORT WORTH.
THEY GOT POWER COMING IN FROM EVERY DIRECTION.
THEY'VE GOT BELTWAYS AROUND THEIR BELTWAYS, THEY'VE, THEY'VE GOT POWER CAN COME IN FROM ANYWHERE.
AND, UM, SO THEY'RE MUCH BETTER POSITION TO DEAL WITH RENEWABLES FROM ALL DIFFERENT AREAS THAT WE ARE.
THE NEXT SLIDE IS HOUSTON, UH, HAVE A LOT OF LINES FROM NORTH AND SOUTH, BUT ALSO A VERY SIGNIFICANT BELTWAY AROUND THE CITY.
AND THE LAST SLIDE IS SAN ANTONIO, WHICH, UH, ONE MORE SLIDE.
THE LINES FROM KERRVILLE ARE THE CRE ARE THE CRES LINES THAT ARE BRINGING POWER IN FROM WEST TEXAS.
AND THEY'VE GOT LINES FROM SOUTH AND FROM NORTHEAST.
THEY ALSO HAVE A LOT OF THEIR OWN CONGESTION PROBLEMS. I THINK THERE'S REPORTS.
YEAH, THEY'RE, I MEAN, I WAS GONNA SAY THERE'S SERIOUS PROBLEMS. WELL, YOUR STATEMENTS ARE TRUE.
BOTH IN HOUSTON AND SAN ANTONIO, THERE'S, YOU KNOW, THERE'S ADDITIONAL LINES BEING BUILT BECAUSE THEY DO STILL HAVE THESE CONGESTION ISSUES.
ESPECIALLY SAN ANTONIO IS, THEY'VE HAD A BIG LINE APPROVED TO GO KIND OF SOUTH OF SAN ANTONIO.
SO THAT SHOULD HELP OUT AND THAT SHOULD HELP OUT AND THAT SHOULD HELP US BECAUSE A LOT OF OUR SOUTH VALLEY WIND HAS TO KIND OF COME THROUGH SAN ANTONIO TO GET TO US, WHICH IS NOT INFREQUENTLY A PROBLEM.
SO IF YOU OVERLAY THE, THE OTHER TEXAS GRID, THE HIGH VOLTAGE GRID, THAT'S GONNA HELP MOVE THINGS AROUND TOO.
SO ASKING FOR, UH, OUR BEST EFFORTS ON LOCAL HIGH VOLTAGE EXCESS, AND THEN HOW DO WE CONNECT TO THIS TEXAS GRID IN ABOUT THE TIMEFRAME THAT WE NEED TO GET ONTO IT.
SO, AND THESE ARE LONG-TERM PROJECTS, SO WE NEED TO GET ON 'EM QUICK IS MY, ALRIGHT, LAST SLIDE.
ANY QUESTIONS OR ANY COMMENTS? COMMISSIONER RHODES? IT WAS, I HEARD A STORY.
IT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT WE TRIED TO BUILD A BELTWAY AROUND AUSTIN HIGH VOLTAGE TRANSMISSION LINES LIKE 20 YEARS AGO AND IT, IT FAILED.
DO YOU, DO YOU RECALL THAT? NO, I WASN'T.
HUH? GEORGE? I'M FREE
I I WAS HERE, I WAS WORKING FOR AUSTIN ENERGY WAY BACK THEN.
AND, UH, NO, HE WAS JUST, HE WAS A, HE WAS A CITY COUNCIL MEMBER AND HIS IDEA WAS THAT 3 45 KV LINES, THE, THE EMF, ELECTRO MAG MAGNETIC FORCES COMING OFF OF THOSE CAUSED ALL KINDS OF CANCER AND ALL KINDS OF PROBLEMS. AND WE DIDN'T WANT 3 45 KV LINES ANYWHERE AROUND US.
SO HE WAS A VERY PERSUASIVE, UH, DEBATER AND WON THAT ARGUMENT.
AND THAT'S WHY IT HAD NEVER HAPPENED.
DID WE EVER, HE'S GOING, I MEAN, THERE'S, THERE, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE RESISTANCE TO NEW TRANSMISSION LINES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
WELL EVEN THESE 7 65 KV LINES ARE ALREADY CAUSING, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE TO GET UP IN ARMS ABOUT IT.
YEAH, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, THERE'S ALWAYS GONNA BE A PROBLEM.
AND THE 2030 DATE IS PROBABLY OPTIMISTIC, BUT THEY'RE GONNA TRY TO GET THERE.
THEY'RE, THEY'VE GOT PEOPLE ALREADY READY TO BE BUILDING 'EM, SO WHETHER THEY CAN GET IT ALL DONE IN TIME, THAT'S DIFFERENT.
BUT I MEAN THAT YEAH, THEY'RE ALREADY HAVING THOSE, THOSE FIGHTS ON SIDING FIGHTS OUT IN WEST TEXAS FOR 'EM.
SO I MEAN, I, AND IF IT'S FOR OIL AND GAS, I MEAN THEY'RE GONNA GET BUILT
DO DO WE, DO WE STILL HAVE THE, DO WE EVER GET THE RIGHT OF WAY FOR THOSE LINES? THEY JUST DIDN'T GET BUILT OR, WELL, I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER EXACTLY HOW IT PLAYED OUT.
WE HAD, I THINK, INVESTED A LOT OF MONEY ALREADY IN NOT JUST THE PLANNING FOR THE 3 45 KV LINES, BUT EVEN SOME OF THE EQUIPMENT.
[01:40:01]
THAT GOT VOTED DOWN BY COUNCIL, UM, THEY TURNED IT INTO A DOUBLE CIRCUIT, 1 38 CIRCLE A LOOP AROUND AUSTIN.BUT SO THE RIGHT OF WAY'S THERE, BUT IS IT AT THIS POINT ADEQUATE FOR A, OR IS, IS THE, THE LOOP EVEN BIG ENOUGH ANYMORE? AND YOU CAN KIND OF SEE IT, IF YOU LOOK ON THE TRANSMISSION MAPS, THERE'S A, THERE, THERE ARE SOME GOING AROUND.
IT, IT'S NOT A PERFECT CIRCLE MM-HMM
BUT IT DOES KIND OF MAKE A LOOP.
WELL, AND IT'S NOT UNCOMMON TO SEE LINES UPGRADED.
LIKE IS IT, IF IT'S A DOUBLE CIRCUIT 1 38, IS IT, IS IT JUST A MATTER OF, I MEAN, DO WE HAVE THE, THE LINEAR RIGHTS OF WAY TO, TO MAKE IT A DOUBLE CIRCUIT 3 45 OR PROBABLY, I MEAN, IF THE 7 65 IS COMING PRETTY CLOSE, I MEAN, I KNOW YOU CAN'T DO ALL THAT STUFF ALL THE TIME, BUT IS IT, IS IT STILL POSSIBLE TO, TO, TO BUILD THAT OUT? IF I, WE'D HAVE TO ASK, ASK SOMEBODY OVER THERE.
IT'S A GENERATIONAL KIND OF PROJECT TOO.
BUT IF YOU START BUILDING WEST, SORT OF LIKE HIGHWAY 45 DOES EVENTUALLY CONNECT AROUND THE, BUT, AND IT ONLY GETS HARDER THE LA THE MORE YOU DELAY IT, THE MORE YOU DELAY IT.
BUT COULD WE GET ANYONE FROM AUSTIN ENERGY TO DISCUSS THIS? WELL, BUT I MEAN THE HARD, THE HARD PART IS GET GETTING THE RIGHT OF WAY AND GETTING THE SIDING FOR THESE THINGS, RIGHT.
IF THAT, IF THAT'S RELATIVELY ALREADY THERE, IT'S JUST THE TECHNOLOGY HAS TO BE SWAPPED OUT OR UP GRABBED.
I'M SURE IT'S NOT EXACTLY THAT EASY, BUT LIKE DO WE HAVE THE ABILITY, WELL YOU STILL HAVE TO GET APPROVAL THROUGH ERCOT AND THROUGH PUC, RIGHT? OH, SURE.
BUT LIKE, UM, YEAH, YOU MAY HAVE TO GET YOUR CN OR WHATEVER, BUT DO BUT I, I MEAN LIKE IT'S USUALLY IT'S THE SIDING AND THE RIGHTS OF WAY THAT'S, THAT'S THE HARD PART, RIGHT? SO HOW WOULD WE FIGURE OUT IF, WELL LET'S GET AN UPDATE FROM OUR COO.
LISA WILL TELL US EXACTLY HOW IT COULD BE DONE.
LISA MARTIN, CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER, YOU ARE ALL TOO KIND.
I DO NOT HAVE THOSE KINDS OF ANSWERS FOR YOU TODAY,
UM, BUT I AM HEARING YOUR QUESTIONS LOUD AND CLEAR AND UM, I DO THINK THAT WE CAN BRING YOU AN UPDATE ON TO YOUR POINT, UH, COMMISSIONER BRADEN, THERE'S A LOT THAT WE DON'T TALK ABOUT TRANSMISSION BE UNTIL IT GETS INTO THE PUBLIC SPACE.
SO, UM, WE CAN PULL WHAT'S IN THE PUBLIC SPACE AND PROVIDE YOU AN UPDATE ON WHERE THINGS ARE, UM, AND, AND SHARE THAT WITH YOU.
UH, AND YOU KNOW, YOUR QUESTIONS ABOUT EASEMENTS AND WHATNOT, WE CAN PROVIDE SOME INFORMATION ABOUT THAT AS WELL.
SO JUST CONTINUE TO HAVE THE QUE CONVERSATION.
LET ME KNOW WHAT QUESTIONS YOU HAVE AND WE'LL PREPARE A RESPONSE ON THE, ON THE NOT BEING ABLE TO TALK ABOUT THINGS THAT ARE NOT IN THE PUBLIC, BUT IF, IS IT NOT DIFFERENT FOR US THAN ENERGY SINCE YOU DO OWN GENERATION TRANSMISSION AND DISTRIBUTION.
SO WE HAVE THE PUCT, UH, STANDARDS OF CONDUCT THAT PROHIBIT OUR, UH, ENERGY MARKET OPERATIONS PERSONNEL FROM HAVING TRANSMISSION OPERATIONS INFORMATION.
JUST LIKE FOR STANDARDS OF CONDUCT IN OTHER PLACES.
AND AL I WANTED TO PUSH, NOT PUSH BACK, BUT JUST, UM, TRY TO THINK HOW I UNDERSTAND HOW THIS ER CUT MARKET WORKS AS OPPOSED TO WHAT YOU SAID.
SO IT'S NOT NECESSARILY THAT WE NEED THE TRANSMISSION SO THAT THE ELECTRONS FROM THAT PARTICULAR SOLAR WIND FACILITY THAT WE HAVE AN, THAT WE HAVE A CONTRACT WITH COME INTO AUSTIN IS JUST SIMPLY SO THAT ELECTRONS FROM POWER IN GENERAL CAN FLOW THROUGH OUR LINES, RIGHT? YEAH.
BECAUSE THE, THE ELECTRONS FROM THAT SOLAR FARM OR WIND FARM ARE JUST GONNA GO INTO THE MARKET AND THEY'RE GONNA SERVE SOME DEMAND.
BUT IT'S JUST DECONGESTING THE WHOLE SYSTEM SO THAT WE CAN GET MORE OF, OF THAT POWER.
BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S NECESSARILY GONNA COME FROM THE STUFF WE CONTRACT WITH.
I, YEAH, I I BUY THAT, IT, IT, WELL IT CAN HELP THE, THE 7 65 GRID CAN HELP THE OIL PATCH USE MORE OF OUR SOLAR, WHICH IS GONNA KEEP THE PRICE OF OUR SOLAR HIGHER EXACTLY.
MORE EQUITABLE TO WHAT WE'RE PAYING IN TOWN FOR WHEREVER WE GET IT FROM.
AT LEAST ETHICALLY WE'VE CREATED THAT MUCH RENEWABLE ENERGY TO MEET OUR LOAD.
I MEAN THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I'M COUNTING ON.
WELL, RIGHT, BUT SORRY, IF LIKE IF WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO IMPORT MORE, THEN WE MIGHT NOT NEED TO RUN THE DIRTIER STUFF WE HAVE HERE AS OFTEN.
I JUST DIDN'T WANT IT TO BE, I DIDN'T WANT US TO THINK THAT THAT PARTICULAR CONTRACT MEANT THOSE ELECTRONS WERE COMING TO MY HOUSE.
YEAH, BUT IT'S LIKE, BUT IF IT OFFSETS IT SOMEWHERE ELSE, LIKE IT DOESN'T, I MEAN THE CRITERIA AIR POLLUTANTS MATTER, BUT THE, THE CARBON DOESN'T REALLY MATTER WHERE IT GETS EMITTED.
WE, WE ALSO HAVE A LOT OF WIND ON THE COAST AND IN THE VALLEY.
[01:45:01]
HOPEFULLY WE WE'RE, WELL THAT WAS THE SITUATION WITH THOSE LINES BETWEEN SAN ANTONIO AND THE VALLEY IS THAT WIND ENERGY WAS BASICALLY GETTING CONGESTED.IT WASN'T COMING UP THROUGH THOSE LINES, RIGHT? MM-HMM
THANKS FOR GIVING US A HISTORY LESSON THERE.
OTHER, OTHER COMMENTS OR DISCUSSIONS? NO, THANKS FOR DOING THIS.
[FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS ]
ITEMS, I GUESS WE'RE SORT OF MIGRATING TO THE NEXT THING IS, YOU KNOW, WE, WE WANNA BE MORE INVOLVED OR EDUCATED ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN TRANSMISSION TO THE DEGREE THAT YOU CAN SHARE, ET CETERA.THE OTHER THING IS WHEN WE HAVE, UH, PRESENTATIONS ON RATE CASES FROM CONSUMER ADVOCATES AND ALL THAT, I'D LIKE YOU TO BE PREPARED TO, TO DESCRIBE WHERE THINGS, WHEN THINGS HAVE SUPPOSEDLY GONE WELL, THAT'S WHAT I HEARD DURING PUBLIC COMMENTS.
WHAT WERE THOSE TIMES AND DO YOU AGREE WITH ALL THAT THAT WENT WELL.
AND THEN WHEN THERE'S A CLAIM THAT IT DIDN'T GO WELL, YOU KNOW, HAVE SOME INFORMATION FOR US SO WE UNDERSTAND WHAT SUPPOSEDLY DIDN'T GO WELL AND WHAT AUSTIN ENERGY'S VIEW ON THAT IS.
THOSE ARE TWO POINTS I HEARD DIRECTLY FROM PUBLIC COMMENT THIS EVENING.
AL THERE WAS, THERE WAS ONE MORE COMMENT ON THE RATE CASE THAT I'D LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT.
IT WAS KIND OF LIKE, WELL WE DID THE GOLD STANDARD AND OF COURSE WE ALWAYS WANT TO DO THE GOLD STANDARD, BUT IT SOUNDED LIKE THERE WERE A LOT OF SEVERAL GRADUATED STEPS LESS THAN THAT.
THAT MIGHT BE QUICKER AND COST LESS.
BUT WOULD THEY, WOULD THEY GIVE US ENOUGH PUBLIC INPUT? I GUESS THAT'S THE QUESTION.
WHAT ARE, WHAT ARE, WHAT ARE THOSE STEPS LOOK LIKE? YEAH, WE MIGHT SAY, WELL WE WANT MORE PUBLIC INPUT THEN.
I MEAN I, THE MEMORY'S GETTING FURTHER AND FURTHER IN THE PAST, BUT THE LAST ONE I THOUGHT THERE, THERE WAS, I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE 2015 AND THE 20.
THIS IS PART OF THE PROBLEM IS GETTING MY YEARS ALL MIXED UP, BUT YEAH.
SO THE WORST CASE WAS ALONG QUITE A WHILE AGO.
WE WENT OVER A DECADE WITHOUT A RATE CASE I THINK.
WAS THAT, YEAH, WE WENT A LONG TIME WITHOUT A RATE CASE.
THERE WAS A BIG CATCH UP PERIOD IN THE MID DECADE THERE THAT OKAY.
WHAT ABOUT OTHER FU FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS? THERE WAS SOME MENTION IN THE LAST MEETING, IT WAS IN OUR MINUTES.
I, I STILL WANT TO STREAMLINE THE, UH, WE'RE TALKING THAT WAS ONE ABOUT STREAMLINING THE STEPS IN, IN SOLAR INSPECTION, INSTALLATION.
I WAS GONNA TALK TO RICHARD, BUT WE HAVEN'T CAUGHT UP YET, BUT I, IT'S, I WANT TO KEEP THAT ONE ALIVE.
HAS THERE BEEN ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THAT? NOT WITH ME.
UM, THE VPP, I REMEMBER NIKKI GIVING ME A LINK TO THE RMC.
THEY HAD, EVERYONE WAS EXCITED ABOUT THE VPP PROGRAM AT AUSTIN ENERGY.
I JUST THINK WE NEED SOME MORE ENGAGEMENT AND THERE ARE PEOPLE SORT OF ENGAGED IN THIS TECHNOLOGY AND INTERESTED IN IT AND I THINK THERE'S SOME GOOD FEEDBACK THAT WE COULD PROVIDE.
UH, I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING YET ABOUT, UM, MOVING THAT FORWARD, BUT I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT.
AND I WAS SEARCHING FOR THE MINUTES FROM THE LAST MEETING.
UH, THE, WELL THE BUDGET OBVIOUSLY IS GONNA BE STILL, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA GET A BUDGET DISCUSSION AT SOME POINT.
AND THEN ALSO ON THIS LIST WAS COMMERCIAL AND STANDARD SOLAR OFFER PROGRAM.
BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE REQUEST WAS, IF IT WAS JUST AN UPDATE.
UH, THE STANDARD, THE COMMERCIAL STANDARD OFFER PROGRAM IS LOOKING LIKE THE RATE COULD GO DOWN CONSIDERABLY 'CAUSE OF LOWERING RATES AND THAT THAT WOULD BE BELOW THE THRESHOLD THAT PEOPLE WANT TO PARTICIPATE.
SO THE DISCUSSION WAS HOW DO WE BUILD A FLOOR UNDER THAT? AND TIM HARVEY TALKED ABOUT THAT AT THE LAST STAKEHOLDER MEETING, BUT IT'S LIKE, WELL HOW CAN WE FUND AND WHAT, WHAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE TO KEEP AT LEAST THE BASIS SUPPORT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE CONTRACTOR CAN HAVE ALL THE UPSIDE, BUT BELOW A CERTAIN POINT THEY'RE NOT GONNA BUILD ANYTHING.
SO HOW DO WE KEEP THAT PROGRAM ALIVE? 'CAUSE IT'S, IT'S CRITICAL TO OUR IN TOWN SOLAR.
[01:50:04]
OKAY, THEN IT IS 7 52.