[00:00:01]
IT'S CALLED A MEETING TO ORDER.
LET ME FIRST GO THROUGH ROLL CALL.
COMMISSIONER ALVAREZ? I HAVE NOT YET.
COMMISSIONER BLACKBURN, I THINK YOU SAID HE DOESN'T HAVE POWER.
[PUBLIC COMMUNICATION: GENERAL]
COMMUNICATIONS.SO IT LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE A NUMBER OF SPEAKERS TODAY.
YOU WILL BE THE FIRST SPEAKER.
WELL, GOOD EVENING, UH, COMMISSIONERS.
MY JOURNEY IN, UH, ELECTRIFICATION BEGAN BACK IN 2008 WORKING FOR COMPANIES LIKE TESLA, SOLAR CITY, SUNRUN, AND AS AN INDEPENDENT ENERGY CONSULTANT, AND NOW HERE IN AUSTIN AS A FOUNDER OF SEARS ENERGY.
UH, TODAY I HELP FAMILIES REDUCE COSTS THROUGH ENERGY EFFICIENCY IMPROVEMENTS, WHICH INCLUDE SOLAR AND BATTERY STORAGE.
I'M HERE TO ADVOCATE FOR EXPAND, EXPANDING THE ACCESS TO RENEWABLE ENERGY, SPECIFICALLY MODERN THIRD PARTY OWNERSHIP OR TPO OPTIONS FOR AUSTIN FAMILIES.
UH, HISTORICALLY I UNDERSTAND WHY AUSTIN ENERGY LIMITED RESIDENTIAL TPO OFFERINGS, BUT TODAY THE LANDSCAPE HAS CHANGED.
UH, WITH THE ELIMINATION OF THE INFL INFLATION REDUCTION ACT AND PASSING OF THE BIG, BEAUTIFUL BILL, HOMEOWNERS COULD NO LONGER ACCESS FEDERAL TAX CREDITS WHILE BUSINESSES STILL CAN.
THAT CREATES A GAP WHERE FAMILIES ARE LOCKED OUT OF A 30 TO 40% SAVINGS THAT MAKE SOLAR AND STORAGE MORE AFFORDABLE.
WITH THAT, IN 2026, UH, TPO HAS EVOLVED.
UH, THERE ARE NOW TWO DISTINCT OPTIONS.
UH, FIRST IS THE TRADITIONAL MODEL.
I'M SURE A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE FAMILIAR WITH A LONG-TERM 25 YEAR AGREEMENT THAT INCLUDES MONITORING, MAINTENANCE, AND REPAIRS LIKE BATTERY REPLACEMENT.
UH, THE SECOND NEWER STRUCTURE, THOUGH, IS WHERE TPO PROVIDERS CAPTURE THE COMMERCIAL INCENTIVES TO REDUCE COSTS FOR HOMEOWNERS AND THEN TRANSFER OWNERSHIP DIRECTLY TO HOMEOWNERS AFTER FIVE YEARS.
THAT'S LOWER COST FOR FAMILIES.
AND A CLEAR PATH TO OWNERSHIP.
UH, BOTH MODELS HELP TO EXPAND ACCESS FOR ELECTRIFICATION, BUT BY PROHIBITING THEM FOR RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS, AUSTIN ENERGY IS MAKING SOLAR AND BATTERY STORAGE AND EV CHARGING SLIGHTLY MORE EXPENSIVE, UH, ADDING 30 TO 40% MORE EXPENSE TO THE COST OF GOING SOLAR FOR THE VERY FAMILIES IT SERVES NATIONALLY, 2024 72% OF SOLAR AND BATTERY SYSTEMS WERE INSTALLED UNDER TPO MODELS.
THAT ALSO MEANS THAT AUSTIN ENERGY IS MISSED OUT ON UP TO THREE TIMES MORE ADOPTION.
BY NOT ALLOWING THESE OPTIONS, WE NOW SEE THE MODEL EMBRACED AT SCALE COMPANIES LIKE GOOGLE, APPLE, MICROSOFT META, OR ALL USING PPAS TO REDUCE COSTS AND REMOVE OPERATIONAL RISKS.
SO THE QUESTION BECOMES, UH, IF THIS MODEL WORKS FOR MOST, UH, SOPHISTICATED ORGANIZATIONS IN THE WORLD, UH, WHY ARE AUSTIN FAMILIES PROHIBITED FROM ACCESSING THE SAME BENEFITS? I ALSO WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE, UH, THE PROPOSED AGREEMENT WITH BASE POWER.
I THINK THAT'S GREAT TO DEPLOY GRID CHARGE RESIDENTIAL BATTERIES, UH, BUT IT'S COSTING, UH, AUSTIN ENERGY $4 MILLION ANNUALLY WHILE, UH, PROVIDING, UH, IN COMPARISON RESIDENTIAL ACCESS TO TPO REQUIRES NO UTILITY FUNDING EXPANDS LOCAL GENERATION AND STORAGE AND LOWERS COST TO FAMILIES.
UH, AUSTIN ENERGY, I KNOW IS COMMITTED, UH, TO QUOTE, AFFORDABLE AND INNOVATIVE RENEWABLE ENERGY OPTIONS.
SO I RESPECTFULLY ASK, UH, HAS AUSTIN ENERGY REEVALUATE? THANK YOU.
[00:05:01]
FINISHED.I KNOW WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO, UM, ENTER INTO DISCUSSION, BUT CAN I ASK WHAT TPO STANDS FOR? THIRD PARTY OWNERSHIP.
OUR NEXT SPEAKER I WOULD CALLIO.
IF YOU COULD PASS THOSE TWO, RIGHT.
I HAVE SOME, SOME PICTURES ON THE BACK OF THIS HANDOUT OR A PICTURE THAT MIGHT BE USEFUL IN UNDERSTANDING WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
AND I TOLD MR. HOGAN THAT I WOULD SCAN THIS TOMORROW AND EMAIL IT OUT TO ALL OF YOU SO THAT THOSE ONLINE WILL ALSO RECEIVE A COPY.
I WAS HERE LAST JUNE TO TALK ABOUT A HANGUP WITHIN CONNECTING OUR 110 KILOWATT SYSTEM AT ST.
FORTUNATELY, THAT WAS QUICKLY RESOLVED AND I'D LIKE TO REPORT GOOD PROGRESS.
WE'RE IN THE PAST EIGHT MONTHS, MADE OVER $10,000 OF SAVINGS FROM OUR A HUNDRED QUAT SYSTEM.
UM, IT MEANS ALSO MEANS THAT'S AVOIDING EMISSIONS EQUIVALENT TO SIX, BURNING 6,000 GALLONS OF GASOLINE.
SO WE'RE, WE'RE MAKING PROGRESS THERE.
THANKS TO THE EUC FOR GETTING THAT BALL ROLLING AGAIN.
AND THANKS TO AUSTIN ENERGY FOR THE REBATE THAT MADE IT AFFORDABLE.
IT, IT'S BEEN SO ATTRACTIVE THAT OUR DAY SCHOOL WANTS TO GET IN ON THE ACT AND THEY'VE INITIATED A PROGRAM TO INSTALL A 40 KILOWATT SYSTEM ON THEIR ROOF.
HOWEVER, THE PLAN FOR, WE HAVE A PRELIMINARY PLAN AND THE INSPECTORS WERE OUT LOOKING AT IT.
AND THE RESULTS OF THAT PLAN WERE THAT THE CT ENCLOSURE, WHICH IS A SINGLE DOOR, NEEDS TO BE RETROFIT TO A DOUBLE DOOR SYSTEM.
THAT'S PER THE CURRENT AUSTIN ENERGY DESIGN CRITERIA.
OUR INSTALLER SAYS THERE, THERE IS NO RETROFIT DOOR NOR ANY DOOR THINGY MECHANISM THAT COULD BE READILY ATTACHED INSTEAD OF THE EXISTING FACE PLATE.
I WOULD COMMENT THAT THE CTS ON OUR MAIN BUILDING ARE 47 YEARS OLD OF NEVER NEED SERVICING.
SO I, I'M QUESTIONING THE NEED FOR SERVICEABILITY, UH, CTS, OUR INSTALLER SAYS THAT REPLACING THE Y WHAT DOES CT STAND FOR? PARDON? NO MORE ACRONYMS. CT.
WHAT? THERE ARE CURRENT TRANSFORMERS.
WHAT CURRENT TRANSFORM, WHICH THEY SENSE THE FLOW OF ENERGY EITHER IN OR OUT OF THE SYSTEM.
SO THEY'RE, THEY'RE VERY IMPORTANT
SO IF WE HAVE TO REPLACE THAT ENCLOSURE TO GET DOUBLE DOORS, WE'LL HAVE TO REPO THE WIRES.
IT'LL COST THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.
AND WORST OF ALL, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO COORDINATE SOME TIME TO SHUT THE SCHOOL DOWN.
I WOULD SUGGEST THAT MODERNIZATION OF THE CT ACCESS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE BURDENED WITH THE SOLAR PROGRAM.
UH, OUR BUILDING IS, IS RELATIVELY YOUNG.
IT'S AS ABOUT THE SAME AGE AS THE BUILDINGS IN, IN THE DOMAIN, WHICH IS YOUNG BY AUSTIN STANDARDS.
UM, I'M ASKING THE EUC TO RE PLEASE REVIEW THE STANDARDS FOR THE SOLAR PROGRAM.
I THINK THERE'S, THEY'RE A LITTLE OUTTA OUTTA LINE WHAT THEY SHOULD BE, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, LET'S DECOUPLE IT FROM MODERNIZATION OF BUILDING INFRASTRUCTURE.
WHY DON'T WE TALK ABOUT THIS AFTER? OKAY.
CAN Y'ALL HEAR ME PERFECTLY? YEP.
I'M ON RMC RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION.
I'LL TRY TO MIND MY ACRONYMS. I REPRESENT D TWO DISTRICT TWO ON RMC.
SO I JUST WANTED TO JOIN TO SHARE SOME THOUGHTS ON THE PUBLIC RATE INPUT PROCESS.
UH, WE, RMC HAD PASSED A RESOLUTION ON THIS IN FEBRUARY, AND I CAN SAY FOR SURE THAT DEVIATING FROM THE LONGSTANDING FORWARD PRACTICE OF HOLDING THE REGULAR RATE CASES HAS IMPACTED MY AND MY, UH, FELLOW RMC MEMBERS' KNOWLEDGE OF THIS LAST RATE INCREASE.
AND THAT BY, YOU KNOW, SOMEWHAT BEARING IT WITHIN THE LARGER SOUP OF THE BUDGET PROCESS ITEMS HAS REDUCED REAL COMMUNITY FEEDBACK OPPORTUNITIES FOR US.
THE RATE STRUCTURE ISSUES OBVIOUSLY AFFECT ENERGY CONSERVATION IN A MAJOR WAY AND OUR COMMISSION, RMC WAS NOT MADE AWARE OF THE RATE INCREASE AT THE TIME.
WE PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE KNOWN, BUT WE DID NOT.
UM, I KNOW AUSTIN ENERGY DID IMPLEMENT A SOMEWHAT MORE REGRESSIVE RATE STRUCTURE THAT DOES, AS YOU LIKELY KNOW, IT RUNS THE, THE SOMEWHAT MORE REGRESSIVE RATE STRUCTURE RUNS COUNTER TO THE GOALS OF THE, OF BOTH ENERGY CONSERVATION AND OF LOWERING
[00:10:01]
COSTS FOR LOW INCOME RESIDENTS.UH, DOING SO MAY MEET OTHER UTILITY GOALS THAT ARE IMPORTANT, BUT MY VIEW IS THAT, YOU KNOW, SERIOUS OPPORTUNITIES FOR GENUINE COMMUNITY INPUT SHOULD BE EXPANDED AND NOT CLOSED OFF.
I LIVE IN D TWO, WHICH COVERS, UH, SOUTHEAST AUSTIN.
AND I KNOW FROM THE RESOLUTION THAT WE, UH, RMC PUT TOGETHER THAT MY DISTRICT AND THE REST OF THE EASTERN CRESCENT DISTRICTS DID EXPERIENCE A DISPROPORTIONATE BILL INCREASE RELATIVE TO THE WEST SIDE OF TOWN.
IMPLEMENTING THIS SORT OF UNEVEN DISTRICT AND UNEVEN COMMUNITY IMPACT NEEDS TO BE PAIRED WITH CLEAR OPPORTUNITIES FOR INFORMATION DISCOVERY AND PUBLIC COMMENT THAT GO ALONG WITH THE RATE CASE.
PAUL ROBBINS, ROBIN, SORRY, ONE SECOND.
HELLO, CAN YOU HEAR ME? YES, WE CAN.
UH, I AL BEFORE I START, I NEED TO ASK IF A POWERPOINT PRESENTATION HAS BEEN EMAILED TO COMMISSIONERS.
UH, I KNOW CYRUS HAS IT, BUT DO OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE IT? YES, I EMAILED IT TO ALL COMMISSIONERS.
SO, UH, PLEASE, I DON'T HAVE, UH, TRY AND KEEP UP WITH IT AND IT WILL BE PROVIDED TO YOU AS BACKUP IF YOU CAN'T ACCESS IT BY EMAIL RIGHT NOW.
COMMISSIONERS, I'M VICE CHAIR OF THE CITY'S RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMISSION.
I'M HERE TO SPEAK ABOUT AUSTIN ENERGY'S REGRESSIVE ELECTRIC RATES AND THE NEED FOR A RATE CASE IN THE NEAR FUTURE.
IN FEBRUARY, OUR COMMISSION ASKED CITY COUNCIL TO CHALLENGE AUSTIN ENERGY'S REGRESSIVE, UH, RESIDENTIAL RATES THAT PUNISH CONSUMERS WHO CAN CONSERVE ENERGY.
NOW, THE FIRST SLIDE, UH, SHOWS THAT AUSTIN ENERGY HATES PROGRESSIVE RATES.
THIS SLIDE SHOW IS FROM A RATE CASE IN 2022, AUSTIN ENERGY'S PROPOSAL WAS TO ALMOST ENTIRELY SHIP THE PROGRESSIVE RATE STRUCTURE THAT WAS THEN 8 CENTS PER KILOWATT HOUR DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE LOWEST AND HIGHEST TIER TO ONLY 1 CENT PER KILOWATT HOUR BETWEEN THE LOWEST AND HIGHEST TIER AND ALL ALSO.
AND THOUGH THE UTILITY WAS NOT WHOLLY SUCCESSFUL IN ITS PROPOSAL, THE NEXT SLIDE WILL SHOW THAT IT WAS GREATLY WEAKENED TO THE POINT WHERE IT UNEVENLY HURTS VARIOUS COUNCIL DISTRICTS MORE THAN OTHERS, PARTICULARLY COUNCIL DISTRICTS 3, 4, 6, 7, AND NINE, WHICH HAD RATE INCREASES BETWEEN 2022 AND 2026 OF MAYBE 30 TO 34%, UH, COMPARED TO DISTRICT 10, WHICH ONLY HAD A RATE INCREASE OF ABOUT 20%.
UH, AND THE NEXT SLIDE WILL SHOW THAT EVEN THAT MAJORITIES IN EVERY COUNCIL DISTRICT MAJORITIES OF CUSTOMERS WERE PAYING ABOVE OR AVERAGE RATE INCREASES SO THAT LARGE HOMES CAN GET A RATE BREAK.
THE NEXT SLIDE WILL SHOW THAT IT'S LONG ESTABLISHED THAT INCOME TRACKS CONSUMPTION, WEALTHIER PEOPLE USE MORE ENERGY BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO.
AND THE LAST SLIDE WILL SHOW ONE BIG REASON FOR AUSTIN, UH, AUSTIN ENERGY'S REGRESSIVE RATES.
OUR MONTHLY CHARGE IS WAY IN EXCESS OF MOST OTHER LARGE MUNICIPAL UTILITIES IN TEXAS.
AUSTIN ENERGY, FOR EXAMPLE, HAS A MONTHLY CHARGE OF $16 COMPARED TO SAN ANTONIO'S CPS ENERGY, WHICH IS ONLY $9 AND 50 CENTS PER MONTH.
AUSTIN ENERGY IS HIDING RATE INCREASES IN THE CHAOTIC BUDGET PROCESS WHERE INCREASES RECEIVE LITTLE ATTENTION AND WHERE STAKEHOLDERS WILL NOT HAVE POWER OF DISCOVERY TO DETERMINE IF THE RATE INCREASES ARE JUSTIFIED.
SO IN CONCLUSION, OUR COMMISSION ASKS THAT ANY FUTURE RATE INCREASE BE EVENLY DISTRIBUTED TO BOTH HIGH AND LOW CONSUMERS.
AND THAT DETAILED ANALYSES LIKE THE
[00:15:01]
DISTRICT MAX MAPS SHOWN IN THIS PRESENTATION, UH, BE PROVIDED WITH EACH PROPOSED RATING.I'M HERE TO TALK ABOUT THINGS THAT I REALLY CARE ABOUT.
SHOULD AUSTIN ENERGY INVEST IN MORE POLLUTING GAS PEAKERS OR MORE CLEAN ENERGY, INCLUDING SOLAR AND BATTERIES? THE OBVIOUS ANSWER TO ME IS YES.
IF WE LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENING AROUND THE WORLD, PEOPLE TRYING TO GET AWAY FROM FOSSIL FUELS BECAUSE OF THE ERRATIC PRICES INVOLVED.
FOR EXAMPLE, BASE POWER, WHICH IS, UM, UH, MEMBER OWNED UTILITY IN DENTON COUNTY.
THEY'VE JUST LAUNCHED A 100 MEGAWATT HOME BATTERY STORAGE NETWORK FOR THEIR UTILITY.
UH, IF AUSTIN ENERGY HAS SUCH A SYSTEM, I'M NOT AWARE OF IT, THIS WOULD, THIS OF COURSE, AVOIDS, UH, ANY KIND OF TRANSPORTATION COST FROM BRINGING, UH, ENERGY FROM OUTSIDE OF OUR CITY.
THESE CLEAN ENERGY OPTIONS ARE AFFORDABLE AND RELIABLE WITHOUT POLLUTION, AND THEY CAN BE DEPLOYED MUCH QUICKER.
WE HAVE BACKLOGS THAT WE'RE READING ABOUT OF YEARS AND YEARS TO GET A GAS TURBINE.
AUSTIN ENERGIES, UH, AND THE CITY OF AUSTIN.
AIR POLLUTION IS ALREADY AT UNSAFE LEVELS ACCORDING TO FEDERAL STANDARDS.
WE NEED LESS POLLUTION AND NOT MORE AND NON-ATTAINMENT.
THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN A, A WORRY OF MINE.
AND WHERE WILL THE PLANTS BE PRO PLANTS BEING PROPOSED? WHERE WILL THEY BE? PROBABLY IN EAST AUSTIN AND EAST AUSTIN HAS PAID A HUGE PRICE WITH POLLUTION OVER THE YEARS.
I HEAR, I HEAR VERY LITTLE MENTION OF GEOTHERMAL, YET THE REST OF THE WORLD HAS DISCOVERED GEOTHERMAL AND EVEN PARTS OF THE UNITED STATES ARE USING IT A GOOD DEAL.
THE CITY OF AUSTIN HAS THREE LOCAL HEARING OR LISTENING SESSIONS DEALING WITH THIS ISSUE, BUT IT WAS ONLY RELEASED RECENTLY.
IT SEEMS TO ME THAT IF WE WANT TO GET COMMUNITY INPUT, PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE ADVANCED NOTICE AND HAVE A CHANCE TO HAVE IT PUBLICIZED AS AT LEAST ON THE CITY'S, UH, OR AUSTIN ENERGY'S WEBSITE.
THE REST OF THE WORLD GETS THE SITUATION WITH CLIMATE FARMERS.
GET IT? MANY OF US HAVE GOTTEN IT FOR MANY YEARS.
THAT'S WHY WE COME OFF AND ON TO THIS GROUP AND ASK FOR YOU TO KEEP OUR AUSTIN ENERGY CLIMATE POLICY ALIVE AND WELL AND NOT KEEP PUSHING IT OUT.
MANY YEARS AGO WE WERE GONNA BE CARBON FREE BY 2030S, AND NOW IT'S NOW TO 2040.
I THINK THAT A PLANET CANNOT WAIT.
DO I EMAILED THEM OUT? NO, I THINK PM THE DAY BEFORE ALL, BUT OKAY.
THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR TIME AND YOUR FOCUS ON THIS IMPORTANT EFFORT FOR OUR CITY.
I'M A CUSTOMER OF AUSTIN ENERGY.
I JUST WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW THAT, UH, SOME OF US HAVE GOTTEN TOGETHER AND BUILT A DASHBOARD THAT SHOWS ALL THE SUPPLY AND DEMAND OPTIONS THAT ARE IN THE RESOURCE AND GENERATION PLAN.
AND I JUST WANNA MAKE THAT AVAILABLE FOR YOU AS A RESOURCE AS YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT DOING PLANNING.
THE WEBSITE IS AUSTIN CLEAN ENERGY.NET, AND IF YOU CLICK ON, UH, THE THIRD BUTTON OVER, WHICH YOU HAVE IN YOUR SLIDES THAT I SENT BY EMAIL, SORRY, I CAN'T SHOW THEM NOW, UM, YOU'LL SEE ALL ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE.
IT SHOWS ALL THE SUPPLY OPTIONS LIKE SOLAR AND WIND AND GEOTHERMAL ONE, NATURAL GAS AND COAL AND NUCLEAR AND EVERYTHING.
AND AT THE BOTTOM, YOU CAN ADJUST THE DIFFERENT PRICES OF DIFFERENT SOURCES AND YOU CAN CLICK A BUTTON AND SEE HOW IT AFFECTS THE NEXT 10 YEARS OF PLANNING.
SO I THINK IT'S A PRETTY COOL TOOL.
IT'S FREE AND AVAILABLE FOR Y'ALL TO, TO USE AS A CONVERSATION PIECE OR HOWEVER YOU LIKE.
IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT IT, I'M AVAILABLE.
UH, AND THE TEAM THAT BUILT IT IS AVAILABLE.
IT'S BASED ON, LIKE I SAID, USING ALL OF AUSTIN ENERGY'S PREVIOUS PORTFOLIO DATA FROM, UH, FROM THE RESOURCE GENERATION PLAN THAT WE DID A COUPLE YEARS AGO.
[00:20:01]
I'M SAYING THAT TO SAY YOU'LL SEE THE TIMEFRAMES OF WHEN THE CONTRACTS END FOR THE CURRENT PPAS AND UH, IT EVEN INCLUDES THINGS LIKE IF WE JUST RAMPED UP ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND OR DEMAND RESPONSE, HOW THAT INFLUENCES THE PRICE, THE RELIABILITY, RISK HOURS, AND THE EMISSIONS.SO I JUST WANNA LET YOU KNOW THAT'S AVAILABLE IF YOU WANNA USE IT.
UH, WHAT'S THAT WEBSITE AGAIN? DO THE WEBSITE AGAIN.
AND YOU CAN ALSO DO A PERSONAL PROPERTY.
PROPERTY ASSESSMENT OF, DID YOU FIND IT? YES.
SORRY FOR MISPRONOUNCING YOUR LAST NAME.
I WISH THEY WERE PUTTING IT ON THE SCREEN.
YOU GOTTA GET IT IN BY 5:00 PM THE DAY BEFORE.
THANK YOU FOR C CYBERSECURITY REASONS.
BOB HENDRICKS, ARE YOU GOING TO CODA CIRCUIT OF AMERICAS AFTER, AFTER THIS MEETING.
I'M THE CHAIR OF THE AUSTIN SIERRA CLUB, VICE CHAIR OF THE STATE SIERRA CLUB AND THE, UH, VOLUNTEER COORDINATOR OF CITIZENS CLIMATE LOBBY.
I WISH I WAS RELAXED AND ENJOYING RETIREMENT.
INSTEAD, I'M WORKING AS HARD AS I CAN FOR MY GRANDKIDS AND OTHERS.
I WANT TO REMIND YOU THAT WE ARE STILL IN A CLIMATE EMERGENCY.
WE ARE HEADED TOWARDS, NOT ONLY DO WE SEE ALL OF THE DESTRUCTION CAUSED BY CLIMATE ALREADY, BUT WE ARE RACING TOWARDS TIPPING POINTS WHERE WE CANNOT REVERSE THINGS WITHIN NORMAL TIMES OF HISTORY.
WE COULD HAVE HIT THE TIPPING POINT FOR CORAL REEFS THAT WOULD DESTROY 90% OF THEM.
UH, IF, IF WE HAVEN'T BY 2050 THE WAY WE'RE GOING, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN, IT WILL HAVE BEEN REACHED THE WEST ANTARCTIC ICE SHEET, WHICH WOULD ADD FEET TO THE THE OCEAN.
WE ARE CLOSE TO A TIPPING POINT THERE.
AND THERE ARE, THERE ARE A DOZEN OTHER TIPPING POINTS THAT WE HAVE TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT.
WE CAN'T WAIT AND TRY TO FIX THIS AFTER WE'VE HIT THE TIPPING POINTS BECAUSE THEN IT'S IN IRREVERSIBLE.
SO WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT THE, NOW I KNOW THAT WHAT, WHAT, WHAT I, I AM, UH, STRONGLY OPPOSED TO A GAS PEAKER PLANT FOR SEVERAL REASONS.
AND OF COURSE, FIRST OF ALL, BECAUSE OF CLIMATE CHANGE, THAT MAY BE A TINY AMOUNT OF THE CARBON POLLUTION WORLDWIDE.
BUT AUSTIN HAS BEEN IN THE PAST A LEADER IN CLIMATE FRIENDLY, UH, POLICIES.
AND I WOULD LOVE FOR THEM TO CONTINUE TO BE A, A, A BEACON SHOWING PEOPLE THAT IT'S POSSIBLE WE HAD LOW RATES WHEN WE WENT EARLY INTO RENEWABLES.
AND, UH, AND SO THAT'S, THAT, THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS THAT I WOULD, WOULD LOVE FOR US TO NOT CONSIDER THOSE.
IN ADDITION, I AM CONCERNED THAT IT IS AN OLD TECHNOLOGY THAT WILL BE VERY COSTLY FOR AUSTIN.
THE DATA WE HAVE IS ON THE PAST, BUT WE HAVE SOLAR, AND SOLAR AND BATTERIES ARE ALREADY CHEAPER THAN NATURAL GAS AND THEY'RE GETTING CHEAPER EVERY YEAR.
THERE'S LOTS OF TECHNOLOGY THAT CAN STILL BE DEVELOPED TO MAKE THEM EVEN CHEAPER.
I DON'T THINK IT'S DEMONSTRATED ITSELF TO BE COST EFFECTIVE YET, BUT THERE'S SOME REALLY SMART PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IT IS AT THAT POINT.
AND I UNDERSTAND AUSTIN ENERGY IS ACTUALLY DOING ONE OF THOSE.
AND I, I, I APPLAUD US FOR THAT.
SO I WOULD REALLY ENCOURAGE YOU NOT TO CONSIDER THE GAS SPEAKER PLANT, UM, BUT DO A LOT MORE BATTERIES THAN WE CURRENTLY HAVE.
STORAGE SYSTEMS AND, UH, SOLAR AND ANY OTHER CLEAN ENERGIES AS IT COMES.
[APPROVAL OF MINUTES]
MINUTES.UM, DO WE HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON THE MINUTES FROM LAST MEETING? ANY CORRECTIONS? NOPE.
ALL IN FAVOR OF THE APPROVING THE MINUTES.
[00:25:01]
GOT HANDS UP ON THERE, BUT YOU'VE GOT UNANIMITY.[Items 2 - 6]
WE'VE GOT DISCUSSION AND ACTION ITEMS TWO THROUGH NINE.WHICH ONES ARE WANTED TO HAVE FURTHER DISCUSSION? SEVEN AND EIGHT.
YEAH, I HAVE THOSE MYSELF TOO.
CYRUS, YOU'RE NEVER SILENT ON THIS.
UH, I WAS GONNA SAY THE SAME THING.
NOTHING ELSE YOU WANT PULLED BESIDES SEVEN AND EIGHT.
WELL, LAUREN IS A DIFFERENT MATTER THAN YOU CAN'T JUST APPROVE NINE IS I'M JUST ASKING IF THEY WANNA PULL ANYTHING.
OKAY, SO WE ARE POLLING SEVEN AND EIGHT, SO THAT MEANS 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.
AND THEN WE CAN DO NINE SEPARATELY.
DO WE HAVE A MOTION? I MOVE APPROVAL.
CHRIS KIRKEY, COMMISSIONER BENAVIDES SECOND.
I THINK BOTH HANDS ARE UP THERE.
SO WE'RE THROUGH WITH THOSE SEVEN
[7. Recommend approval authorizing negotiation and execution of an agreement with UPower Energy LLC, for up to 8 megawatts of electricity from a utility-scale solar facility to be located at the closed City of Austin FM 812 Landfill, in an estimated amount up to $1,500,000 per year, for a term up to 25 years, for a total estimated amount of up to $37,500,000. Funding: $1,500,000 is contingent upon approval of the Proposed Operating Budget of Austin Energy.]
APPROVAL OF NEGOTIATING AN EXECUTION OF AN AGREEMENT WITH U POWER EIGHT MEGAWATTS FROM UTILITY SCALE SOLAR FACILITY.WHO CAN TALK TO US ABOUT THIS? SO, HELLO COMMISSIONERS.
UH, A BLAST FROM THE PAST OF THE SORT, I SUPPOSE.
UH, UM, I'M, I'M, UH, INTERIM VICE PRESIDENT FOR ENERGY AND MARKET OPERATIONS.
UH, SO THE POWER AGREEMENTS THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS EVENING FALL IN MY PURVIEW, AT LEAST FOR THE TIME BEING.
SO I'LL TRY AND ANSWER THE ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE ABOUT, UH, THESE ITEMS. AL GO AHEAD.
UH, FIRST OF ALL, I MEAN, I'M, I'M REALLY GLAD TO SEE THIS.
I THINK IT, IT, IT'S GREAT TO SEE PROGRESS.
YOU MIGHT WANNA MAKE SURE YOUR MICROPHONES, UH, HOW SOON IT WILL BE OPERATIONAL.
UH, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, UH, THE SOLAR FACILITY.
UHHUH ROUGHLY, UH, TWO YEARS FROM THE CONTRACT EXECUTION.
SO MIGHT, MIGHT BE QUICKER THAN THAT, BUT THAT'S THE OUTSIDE TIME RANGE.
AND THAT, THAT WILL ADD TO OUR, UH, COMMUNITY SOLAR PORTFOLIO THEN? YES.
AND WE'LL REALLY RAMP UP WHEN, WHEN WE GET THAT ONLINE, WE'LL BE ABLE TO REALLY RAMP UP MARKETING OF THE COMMUNITY.
SOLAR? WELL, I THINK, I THINK THIS WILL STAND ON ITS OWN.
IT'S, IT'S ACTUALLY, AS WE POINTED OUT IN THE RA, IT'S GOING TO BE THE SINGLE LARGEST, UH, SITE FOR SOLAR.
IT'S NOT GOING TO BE OFFERED THROUGH OUR COMMUNITY SOLAR PROGRAM.
IT'S A DIRECT PPA FOR THIS OUTPUT FROM THIS PARTICULAR SITE.
OH, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT COMMUNITY SOLAR.
IT'S NOT COMMUNITY SOLAR? NO, NO.
IT'S, IT'S, IT'S LOCATED IN THE COMMUNITY, BUT IT'S NOT IN THE COMMUNITY SOLAR PROGRAM.
IF, IF THAT'S, UH, WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO GET TO.
SO IT JUST STANDS ON ITS OWN AS A GENERATOR.
IT'S A LOCAL, UH, SOLAR RESOURCE.
ANY MORE QUESTIONS? AL? IS THERE A REASON IT'S NOT PART OF THE COMMUNITY? SOLAR? UH, THIS WAS ACQUIRED THROUGH AN RFP LAST YEAR, UH, FOR SPECIFICALLY FOR SOLAR.
AND PARTICULARLY FOR SOLAR LOCATED AT THIS SITE, NOT, NOT AS A COMMUNITY SOLAR RESOURCE.
MY QUESTION IS, WHEN, WHEN DO YOU THINK YOU'LL BE PIVOTING TO ACTUALLY OWN IT INSTEAD OF PROCURING THROUGH PPAS? UM, THIS IS MY TAKE ON IT.
I THINK THIS IS GONNA EVOLVE WITH MAYBE, UH, MICHAEL LINGERER WHEN IT COMES BACK AND SOME OTHERS.
BUT, UH, AT THE MOMENT THERE'S STILL OPPORTUNITY TO ATTACH, UH, TO SOME LINGERING TAX CREDITS OUT THERE IF FOLKS HAVE SAFE HARBORED CERTAIN COMPONENTS OR ASPECTS OF THESE.
SO THAT RUNWAY IS GETTING SHORTER.
SO, UH, THAT, THAT PIVOT TO OWNERSHIP WILL START TO MAKE SENSE FAIRLY SOON, I THINK, ANYWAY.
AND WILL THIS BE SOLAR PLUS STORAGE OR MAYBE THE STORAGE WOULD BE IN A DIFFERENT CONTRACT COMING IN THE FUTURE, OR JUST SOLAR? UH, THIS IS JUST SOLAR.
CYRUS, DID I SEE YOUR HAND? OH, I WAS JUST WONDERING, DO WE, UM, DO WE OWN THIS LAND? IS THIS CITY LAND? THIS IS A CITY OWNED, UH, UH, WASTE SITE.
AND IS THIS, IS THIS ON THE DISTRIBUTION GRID OR ON A TRANSMISSION GRID? IT WILL BE, IT WILL BE ACTUALLY BE
[00:30:01]
ON THE DISTRIBUTION INTERCONNECTION LEVEL.'CAUSE OF THE SIZE AND LOCATION.
YOU UM, SORRY, JUST ONE SECOND.
UH, YEAH, YOU, YOU MENTIONED THAT, UH, THIS IS CITY OWNED LAND, I BELIEVE IT'S AUSTIN RESOURCE RECOVERY.
AND I WAS JUST, UH, CURIOUS IF AUSTIN RESOURCE RECOVERY IS GETTING SOME SORT OF COMPENSATION FOR USE OF THE LAND OR WHAT WAS WORKED OUT, UH, WITH THAT DEPARTMENT? UH, SO THEY'RE, THEY'RE THE HOST.
THEY'RE THE SITE HOST FOR THE SITE.
AND SO WE'RE WORKING WITH THEM TO MAKE SURE THERE'S SOME FAIR, UH, COMPENSATION FOR THAT.
AND HOW, WHAT, WHAT AMOUNT OR HOW WAS THAT DETERMINED? IS IT LIKE PER KILOWATT HOUR? IS IT PER JUST A FLAT FEE? IS IT BY YEAR? I'M CURIOUS HOW THAT WORKED OUT THAT THAT WILL BE SEPARATE FROM THE AGREEMENT.
ARE YOU SAYING IT HASN'T BEEN WORKED OUT YET? CORRECT.
UH, HOW CERTAIN ARE YOU THAT IT IS GOING TO GET WORKED, WORKED OUT? I, I UNDERSTAND IT HAS BEEN A STICKING POINT IN THE PAST.
UH, I, I'M QUITE COMFORTABLE, UH, AUSTIN FREE SOURCE RECOVERY HAS BEEN, WELL, WELL ALONG WITH THIS, THROUGH THIS PROCESS UP UNTIL UP THROUGH NOW.
UH, SO THEY'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS AND ARE EXCITED ABOUT IT.
UH, WILL THAT AGREEMENT COME FORWARD, UH, TO THE EUC IN SOME FORMAL WAY OR, UH, IF NOT, CAN WE GET AN UPDATE WHEN THAT IS SOLIDIFIED? I DON'T KNOW ABOUT A, A, A, SOMETHING THAT WOULD COME TO THE EUC, BUT WE CAN LOOK AT FOLLOWING UP WITH INFORMATION THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL.
OTHER QUESTIONS? DO WE HAVE A MOTION? OKAY.
AND WE HAVE A MOTION FOR AND A SECOND.
[8. Recommend approval authorizing negotiation and execution of a battery storage agreement with Base Power, Inc., for up to 40 megawatts of electricity power capacity from a distribution-scale battery facility portfolio with approximately a one-and-a-half-hour duration, in an estimated amount of up to $4,080,000 per year, for a term up to 10 years, for a total estimated amount of up to $40,800,000. Funding: $4,080,000 is available in the Operating Budget of Austin Energy. Funding for the remaining contract term is contingent upon available funding in future budgets.]
RECOMMEND APPROVAL AUTHORIZATION WITH BASE POWER.IS THIS IN YOUR COURT AGAIN? YES.
SO, UM, MY QUESTION IS A BASIC ONE, WHICH IS WE'RE A VERTICALLY INTEGRATED MONOPOLY.
SO BASE POWER, THEY'RE NOT SELLING ELECTRICITY IN ANY WAY, RIGHT? THEY'RE SELLING A RESILIENCY SERVICE.
HOW, HOW DOES THIS, HOW DOES IT WORK THAT WE HAVE A THIRD PARTY BASICALLY SELLING SOMETHING THAT CAN STORE ELECTRICITY? HOW DOES, HOW DOES THAT, CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW THAT WORKS? IT'S BECAUSE OF THE AGREEMENT THAT WE'RE CONTEMPLATING HERE.
UH, BECAUSE WE WILL BASICALLY, THE, THE BATTERY WILL SIT BETWEEN THE CUSTOMER AND THE GRID.
OUR GRID, UH, AND SO THAT POWER FLOWS THROUGH THAT BATTERY.
AND SO WHEN THE CUSTOMER IS RECEIVING ENERGY NORMALLY OR OTHERWISE, IT'S STILL FUNCTIONS THE SAME AS IT CURRENTLY DOES.
THEY'RE NOT SELLING, THEY'RE NOT IN A POSITION OF SELLING POWER TO THEM.
THEY'RE SIMPLY HAVE AN AGREEMENT THAT THERE IS THIS BATTERY IN PLACE THERE THAT PROVIDES CERTAIN CAPABILITIES INCLUDING BACKUP FOR THE RESIDENTS IN THAT CASE, AND ALSO GIVES US ACCESS TO IT FOR THE PURPOSES THAT WE LINED OUT HERE IN THE, IN THE RCA.
AND SO THAT THAT ARRANGEMENT ALLOWS THEM TO TAKE PART IN THIS ACTIVITY WITHIN OUR SERVICE AREA.
IN OTHER WORDS, THEY'RE NOT BEING PUT IN A POSITION AND ARE NOT IN A POSITION WHERE THEY'RE SELLING POWER TO OUR CUSTOMER.
AND THEN IF THERE WAS ANOTHER, UH, COMPANY THAT HAD A SIMILAR PRODUCT, THEY WOULD STILL HAVE TO REACH AN AGREEMENT.
THIS DOESN'T OPEN UP, THIS IS A SPECIFIC AGREEMENT WITH BASE POWER THAT, THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.
THAT'S, THAT WAS MY QUESTION AL.
UH, SO JUST TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT, SO THE AUSTIN ENERGY OWNS THE POWER GOING IN AND COMING OUT OF THIS BATTERY, BASICALLY, RIGHT? IT, IT WILL, RIGHT.
AND SO IN OTHER WORDS, WE'LL EFFECTIVELY CHARGE IT MM-HMM
RIGHT? WHEN IT'S, WHEN THE POWER THEN FLOWS TO THE HOME, THEN JUST LIKE WE ARE CURRENTLY, WE SELL THAT CUSTOMER THE POWER, RIGHT? RIGHT.
AND THEY WILL STILL SEE IT THAT WAY.
BY THE SAME TOKEN, WHEN WE DISCHARGE IT, THE ENERGY WILL COME BACK TO THE GRID, RIGHT.
AND, OR WELL, IT'LL COME BACK TO THE GRID AND THEREFORE IT
[00:35:01]
COME, COMES BACK TO US AS AUSTIN ENERGY AS WELL.SO THE ARBITRAGE OPPORTUNITY REALLY STAYS WITH AUSTIN ENERGY RIGHT.
UM, HOW OFTEN CAN IT BE DISCHARGED AND IS IT, ARE THERE LIMITS ON THAT OR CAN YOU CYCLE IT? THERE? THERE, I CAN'T GO INTO THE DETAILS OF THAT BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF THE NEGOTIATIONS, ULTIMATELY THE CONTRACT.
BUT AS WITH ANY AGREEMENT, ANY BATTERY AGREEMENT OR BATTERY STORAGE, UH, SYSTEM, THERE ARE LIMITS ON HOW, HOW, HOW CAN YOU CYCLE.
IE CHARGE IT AND DISCHARGE DISCHARGE IT.
AND GENERALLY SPEAKING, THE MORE YOU DO THAT, THE FASTER YOU DEGRADE THE BATTERY'S LIFE.
AND SO THERE'S A, A TRADE OFF BETWEEN HOW OFTEN YOU WANNA DO THAT VERSUS HOW LONG YOU WANT TO HAVE THAT RESOURCE FUNCTION AT A, AT A HIGH ENOUGH LEVEL OVER TIME.
AND SO OUR AGREEMENT, WE BELIEVE IS VERY, UH, REFLECTIVE OF, OF SORT OF IN INDUSTRY NORMS AS THEY CURRENTLY EXIST.
I MEAN, THERE SEEMS TO BE AN OPPORTUNITY TWICE A DAY TO, TO CYCLE THE BATTERY.
UH, AND THAT MAY BE MORE THAN THE BATTERY'S DESIGNED FOR.
UH, I THINK WE'LL HAVE OPPOR, WE WILL HAVE, UH, OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THOSE OPPORTUNITIES.
SO YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU KIND OF HAVE TO SIT BACK AND SAY, WHERE DO WE TAKE OUR SHOT TODAY? OR DO WE HOLD BACK ON IT? RIGHT.
BUT YOU, YOU FEEL, SO THAT DOESN'T LET ME CALCULATE HOW MUCH YOU'RE GONNA GET BY DOING THIS EVERY DAY.
BUT, UH, WE'VE, WE'VE OBVIOUSLY LOOKED AT THAT WE FEEL QUITE CONFIDENT THAT THIS WILL WORK WELL IN THE MARKET THAT WE SEE IN TERMS OF HOW PRICES BEHAVE O OVER THE COURSE OF THE YEAR AND IN DAYS WITHIN THE YEAR.
IT, IT TALKS ABOUT REACHING 40 MEGAWATTS BY 18 MONTHS.
IS THERE, AND I PRESUME IF THAT, IF ALL GOES WELL, YOU COULD ENTER INTO ADDITIONAL AGREEMENTS TO EXPAND THAT AND, AND THIS IS A STARTING POINT, OBVIOUSLY, AND SO WE'LL, UH, WE'LL BE LOOKING AT WHAT OTHER OPPORTUNITIES MIGHT, UH, COME DOWN OUR, COME DOWN THE SAME PATH, UH, WHETHER IT'S WITH THIS ENTITY OR OTHERS.
IT, IT GIVES US A WHOLE BUNCH OF DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITIES TO, TO DO BATTERIES AND THIS LOOKS LIKE ONE THAT CAN SCALE PRETTY QUICKLY, WHICH IS A GREAT VALUE.
SO, UM, CAN THIS BE SORT OF A ASSOCIATED OR ROLLED INTO THE VPP PILOT? I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT.
CAN I COULD GET A FOLLOW UP ON THAT WITH LINDSAY OR MAYBE TIM YOU'RE PRESENTING LATER ON, MAYBE YOU COULD TALK ABOUT THAT.
UM, AND NORMALLY WITH BATTERIES, YOU WOULDN'T AL I'VE ALREADY BEEN TRYING TO, TO REVERSE ENGINEER THIS MYSELF TOO, AND IT'S NOT GONNA BE ZERO TO A HUNDRED PERCENT BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANNA DO THAT TO A BATTERY.
SO MAYBE 20 TO 80%, AND I CAN ASK HIM, BUT I BET HE CAN'T TELL ME.
UM, SO THE FIRST THING IS LIKE, YOU'RE GONNA BE DOING PROBABLY FOUR CP REDUCTION.
IF FOUR CP IS WE'RE GONNA HAVE AFTER THEY CHANGE FOUR CP INTO SOMETHING ELSE.
UM, ARE YOU GONNA BE TRYING TO DO ANY ARBITRAGE OR ANCILLARY SERVICES OBLIGATION? I, I THINK FRANKLY, IT'S ALL THE ABOVE.
IT'S GOING TO BE WHATEVER YIELDS THE BEST VALUE THAT BEST VALUE MIGHT BE IS, IS GOING TO BE DIFFERENT THINGS AT DIFFERENT POINTS IN THE YEAR.
OBVIOUSLY FOUR CPS JUST IN THE SUMMER, FOR EXAMPLE.
UH, IT, IT, IT WILL, IT WILL VARY BASED ON TIME, TIME OF YEAR, TIME OF DAY, AS WELL AS WHERE THE HIGHEST VALUE IS BECAUSE WE CAN DO ANCILLARY SERVICES.
WE CAN, AND SOMETIMES THOSE ARE MORE VALUABLE DEPENDING ON WHAT THEY ARE AND WHEN THEY ARE.
UH, IT COULD BE JUST SORT OF SIMPLE ARBITRAGE, CHARGING AT A LOW PRICE, DISCHARGING AT A HIGH PRICE.
ALL ALL OF THOSE ARE, ARE PART OF THE, THE MIX.
CYRUS, YOU AHEAD? UH, I THINK KABA HAD HER HAND UP FIRST.
UM, YEAH, SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I'M UNDERSTANDING.
I SEE THAT IT SAYS THAT THE CUSTOMER'S BILL WILL NOT BE AFFECTED.
SO I, I HEARD DAVE ASKING IF THIS WAS PART OF THE OTHER BATTERY PROGRAM.
IT SEEMS LIKE THAT'S A NO, OR ELSE THE CUSTOMER'S BILL WOULD BE AFFECTED IS, I MEAN, AM I MISSING SOMETHING IN THERE? SO THE, AS FAR AS THIS AGREEMENT GOES, THE, THE CUSTOMER WILL ENTER INTO AGREEMENT IF THEY SO CHOOSE WITH BASE POWER TO INSTALL THE BATTERY, AND THEN THEY HAVE AN, AN AGREEMENT WITH BASE THAT WILL SPELL OUT THEIR PAYMENT TERMS FOR THE DURATION OF THE BAT, THE BATTERY AGREEMENT THEY HAVE.
BUT OTHERWISE, THERE'S NO CHANGE TO THE CUSTOMER'S BILL, UH, WITH AUSTIN ENERGY RELATIVE TO THE SERVICE THAT THEY TAKE FROM AUSTIN ENERGY GOING FORWARD.
AND THAT'S BECAUSE AS AUSTIN ENERGY USES, THAT BATTERY BASE IS GETTING PAID DIRECTLY BASE IS BEING PAID BY AUSTIN ENERGY FOR THE
[00:40:01]
PORTION OF THE BATTERY THAT IT'S USING? YES.UM, AND, AND THAT IS PER USE, NOT LIKE A FLAT OR IS IT A FLAT AMOUNT PER CAPACITY? IT, IT, IT'S A, IT'S A CAPACITY TYPE CHARGE.
SO WE'RE RESERVING THE USE OF THE BATTERY, UH, A PIECE OF IT FOR THE, THE TIMEFRAME INVOLVED.
UM, I'M CURIOUS IF YOU HAVE ANY INFORMATION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT CUSTOMERS SHOULD EXP EXPECT, EXPECT THIS TO BE A, UH, A COST IF THEY CHOOSE TO, UH, YOU KNOW, IN A REALIZE THAT BASE WILL BE, UM, THEY'LL BE NEGOTIATING OR WORKING DIRECTLY WITH BASE, BUT I'M, I'M CURIOUS WHAT, YOU KNOW, WILL, WILL IT BE COST OR WILL IT BE A SAVINGS TO THE CUSTOMER? UH, I, I DON'T TO PARTICIPATE.
I DON'T SEE IT BEING A CL UH, BASICALLY THEY, THEY'RE GOING TO SIGN AN AGREEMENT TO HAVE A BACKUP BATTERY STORAGE SYSTEM, WHICH WILL COME AT A COST.
UH, THERE'S NO ARBITRAGE OPPORTUNITY ON THEIR PART, FOR EXAMPLE, TO MAKE MONEY BACK.
IT'S SIMPLY A STORAGE DEVICE THAT THEY WILL HAVE ACCESS TO AT A FEE.
SO BASICALLY BASE ISN'T GONNA GET PAID ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY, UM, COVER THEIR COST.
THE IT PAR IT IS PARTIALLY GONNA BE MADE UP BY CUSTOMER CONTRIBUTION, UM, THROUGH THAT AGREEMENT.
SO J AGAIN, THE OVERALL CONSTRUCT IS THAT THE CUSTOMER HAS AN AGREEMENT WITH BASE THAT WILL GIVE THEM THE SYSTEM AND ACCESS TO IT FOR THE STORAGE, UH, THAT, THAT THEY'RE PROVIDED BY FOR THE AGREEMENT THEY SIGN UP WITH.
SO THEY HAVE A BACKUP SYSTEM THERE, A BATTERY STORAGE SYSTEM THEY'RE PAYING FOR THAT AUSTIN ENERGY IS PAYING FOR A ANOTHER CHUNK OF THE SYSTEM, IF YOU WILL.
WHICH GIVES US ACCESS TO THAT PIECE OF IT.
I'LL BE CURIOUS TO SEE HOW THIS WORKS OUT.
UH, LEMME SEE IF I UNDERSTAND THIS.
SO IN, IN THE CIRCUMSTANCE, I MEAN THE, THE CUSTOMERS, ALL THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT IS SECURITY.
THEY'RE BUYING THIS AS A SECURITY BLANKET IN CASE THE POWER GOES OUT.
SO DURING THAT CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE THEY'RE, THAT'S THE ONLY TIME THEY DRAW ANY POWER FROM THE BATTERY, IS THAT SOLD BY AUSTIN THEN AUSTIN ENERGY AT THE REGULAR RATE, RIGHT? WHEN, OR IS THAT SOLD BY BASE? ALL THE ENERGY THAT FLOWS THAT THE CUSTOMER CONSUMES PERIOD IS SOLD BY AUSTIN ENERGY TO THE CUSTOMER.
SO YOU WOULD BE CHARGING THE CUSTOMER RIGHT THROUGH PROBABLY THROUGH YOUR REGULAR METER WHEN THEY'RE USING POWER IN AN OUTAGE.
SO AS AN EXAMPLE, IF THERE'S AN OUTAGE, SO THE BATTERY WOULD'VE BEEN CHARGED UP RIGHT? AT SOME LEVEL MM-HMM
UM, AND AT THAT POINT, IT THEN WOULD BE FEEDING THE, THE HOMEOWNER RIGHT.
THAT ENERGY, UH, FOR THAT WILL HAVE BEEN, WILL GO THROUGH THE METER ON THE CUSTOMER SIDE, AND THEY'LL BE CHARGED AS THEY NORMALLY WOULD ON THEIR AUSTIN ENERGY BILL.
THAT'S, AND EVERY, THAT STAYS CLEAN AND IT'S ALL YOUR POWER ALL THE TIME.
UM, WITH THE HOME BATTERY PROGRAM THAT, THAT THEY'RE JUST LAUNCHING, UH, THEY'RE ONLY CYCLING THAT 40 TIMES, WHICH SEEMS TO ME VERY LITTLE AND NOT ENOUGH TO PAY FOR A BATTERY.
I'M ASSUMING THAT YOU'RE AT A MUCH HIGHER FREQUENCY THAN 40, 40 TIMES.
UM, IT'S, IT'S SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER THAN THAT.
AND, AND AGAIN, THERE'S A DIFFERENT CONSTRUCT HERE BETWEEN WE'RE EFFECTIVELY RENTING A, A CERTAIN PROPORTION OF A, OF A BATTERY SYSTEMS. RIGHT.
UH, WHEREAS THAT'S A, AN OWNERSHIP MODEL ARRANGEMENT.
SO THIS IS DANGEROUS, UM,
WOULD THE REVENUES FROM THIS GO IN HELP REDUCE THE PSA, BASICALLY? IS THAT THE IDEA? WELL, SO FOR EXAMPLE, IF THERE'S SUCCESSFUL ARBITRAGE, IN OTHER WORDS, IF WE'VE CHARGED IT IN THE, AT, AT, AT A LOWER PRICE AND THEN SOLD IT AT OUT BACK TO THE MARKET AT A HIGHER PRICE, THAT POSITIVE DIFFERENCE THAT WOULD THEN SHOW UP IN THE PSA.
SO THE CHARGE, THE CHARGING COST SHOWS UP FROM THE PSA, THE, UH, DISCHARGING VALUE REVENUE SHOWS UP IN THE PSA AS WELL.
SO THE NETTING OF THAT OCCURS AT THE PSA LEVEL.
UH, LIKEWISE NOW, IN ADDITION OR SEPARATELY THAN, THAN THAT THOUGH, IF WE ARE, IF WE DISCHARGE IT DURING A PERIOD OF FOUR CP RIGHT.
UH, THAT WILL LOWER THAT CALCULATION AND THAT VALUE WILL THEN SHOW UP IN THE FOUR CP CHARGE THAT AUSTIN ENERGY RECEIVES.
[00:45:01]
JUST LIKE WITH OTHER PROGRAMS THAT STRIVE TO REDUCE FOUR CP, I GUESS WHAT I'M SAYING IS THERE'S NOT A PROBLEM WE'RE PAYING FOR IT OUT OF OPERATING BUDGET, BUT THE REVENUES WILL COME IN THE PSA THAT'S OKAY.WELL, WE'RE PAYING FOR IT THROUGH THE PSA OH AND RECEIVING THE BENEFIT THROUGH THE PSA.
JUST, THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT SHOWS UP IN OUR, JUST LIKE A SAYS OPERATING JUST LIKE ANOTHER PS JUST LIKE ANOTHER POWER SUPPLIER, UH, IT'S LIKE A POWER PURCHASE AGREEMENT.
THEN I'M VERY COMFORTABLE WITH IT.
UM, I, I, I BELIEVE THE WAY THAT THEIR, THEIR MODEL WORKS IN, IN THE OTHER PARTS IS THEY, THEY DO SIMILAR THING.
THEY, THEY SELL THE BATTERY AT A, AT A LOW COST, AND THEN THEY EITHER SELL ANCILLARY SERVICES OR DO OR DO ARBITRAGE, BUT THEY'RE THE ONES OPERATING THE BATTERY WHO'S, WHO'S ACTUALLY GONNA BE CHARGING DISCHARGING THIS ONE.
SO THEY, THEY DO OPERATE IN SEVERAL AREAS THROUGHOUT THE STATE, MOSTLY IN THE, UH, RETAIL OPEN AREAS.
AND SO IN EFFECT, WHAT WE'RE DOING, UH, FOR OUR SHARE OF THE BATTERY THEY DO FOR THEMSELVES WHEN THEY'RE IN THE OPEN COM COMPETITIVE AREAS.
AND SO BECAUSE THE RULES DON'T REQUIRE SOMEBODY ELSE TO BE THE SELLER, UH, ANYBODY CAN BE THE SELLER TO THAT CUSTOMER.
THEY CAN FUNCTION IN THAT ROLE AND THEY OWN AND OPERATE THOSE BATTERIES IN THE, AND USE THAT CAPACITY FOR THEMSELVES, FOR THEIR OWN PURPOSES.
BUT THAT'LL BE, IS IT, ARE YOU PAYING THEM TO OPERATE THE BATTERY OR IS AUSTIN ENERGY GONNA BE THE ONE ACTUALLY DISPATCHING THE BATTERY? OH, WE'LL, SO WE'RE, THEY WILL, THEY'RE WARRANTING THE FUNCTIONALITY OF THE BATTERY SYSTEMS AND THE CAPABILITIES TO US.
BUT WE'LL HAVE CON DISPATCH CONTROL OVER, OVER THE BATTERY OKAY.
IT SAYS, UM, FOR THE PORTION RESERVED FOR AUSTIN ENERGY, HOW MUCH, WHAT PORTION IS RESERVED FOR AUSTIN ENERGY? UH, I DON'T WANNA BREAK THAT DOWN, BUT IT'S, IT'S A LARGE PORTION OF IT.
BUT THAT'S SUBJECT TO THE CONSTRAINTS THAT THE, THE OWNER MAY HAVE.
LIKE IF THERE'S A STORM WATCH, RIGHT.
YOU KNOW, THAT TAKES PRIORITY.
SO I, LET ME SPECULATE ON SOME
SO BASICALLY AE IS GONNA BUY CAPACITY, SO THEY COULD REDUCE FOUR CP EXPENSES, RIGHT.
THAT WILL GIVE SOME REVENUE TO BASE, BASE WILL HOPEFULLY DISCOUNT THE SYSTEM FROM THAT REVENUE.
OWNERS WILL BUY IT FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS.
BUT THE SECOND REASON COULD BE THEY HAVE PV ON THEIR ROOF AND THEY WANNA TRY TO SELF CONSUME.
AND SO THEY MAY CHARGE UP THE BATTERY AND THEN TRY TO POWER THEIR HOUSE DURING THE NIGHT, FOR EXAMPLE.
SO THAT'S PART OF THE OTHER VENDORS DO THIS WHERE YOU CAN TRY TO SET IT TO SELF-CONSUMPTION.
WELL, THAT WAS MY OTHER QUESTION WAS CAN, CAN THESE BATTERIES CHARGE OFF OF THE SOLAR? IF, IF THEY, IF PEOPLE HAVE SOLAR ON THE ROOF, CAN THEY CHARGE IF, IF IN, I GUESS IN NORMAL CONDITIONS, I GUESS THE POWER'S JUST FLOWING THROUGH HOWEVER MANY METERS ARE ON THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE.
BUT LIKE IF, IF THE POWER WERE OUT FOR A COUPLE DAYS, COULD THIS THING CHARGE FOR, UH, FOR SOLAR THAT WE DON'T SPECIFY THAT IN THIS AGREEMENT? IT'S, IT'S NOT OUR, IT'S NOT, WE'RE NOT CONCERNED WITH THAT.
UH, WITH THE AGREEMENT AUSTIN ENERGY HAS WITH BASE, NOW THEY, WHAT THEY ARRANGE WITH THE NATURE OF THE INSTALLATION THAT AT THE, AT ANY GIVEN SITE WITH THEIR CUSTOMERS UP TO THEM IN THE CUSTOMER.
BUT THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED THOUGH.
IS THAT, IS THAT, UH, WE DON'T ADDRESS THAT IN OUR AGREEMENT.
WELL, BUT YOU WOULD HAVE TO, IF THE BAT, IF ALL THE POWER FLOWING OUTTA THE BATTERY INTO THE HOUSE WAS THEN METERED AT AUSTIN ENERGY'S RATES VERSUS LIKE SOLAR BEING PRODUCED AT VALUE OF SOLAR RATE, LIKE THERE'D HAVE TO BE SOME KIND OF ACCOUNTING.
BUT WHEN IT'S, WHEN IT'S A GRID BACKUP SITUATION, THE METER ISN'T EVEN TURNING BECAUSE IT'S ISOLATED THROUGH THE TRANSFER SWITCH.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WOULD BE THE CASE IF LIKE, WELL, YOU'RE ISOLATED FROM THE GRID, AND SO WHY WOULD THE METER BE TURNING? WELL, BECAUSE YOU CAN STILL IN, IN A DIFFERENT SITUATION, YOU CAN STILL HAVE THE BATTERY.
LIKE YOU CAN STILL, LIKE, YOU CAN HAVE A BACKUP BATTERY SOURCE AND STILL HAVE POWER FLOWING.
BUT IN THIS CASE, IF EVERYTHING'S FLOWING THROUGH A METER, IT SOUNDS LIKE THE SOLAR'S FLOWING THROUGH A METER, THE BATTERY'S FLOWING THROUGH A METER THAT THERE'S ANOTHER, I'M, I'M ASSUMING THERE'S THREE ELECTRICAL METERS ON THE HOUSE AT THIS POINT.
MAYBE TIM, IS IT TWO OR THREE? TIM, TIM WILL HELP, HELP ME OUT HERE.
TIM HARVEY, UM, I'M THE DIRECTOR OF CUSTOMER RENEWABLE SOLUTIONS.
SO THE WAY IT WORKS IS, UM, THE BATTERY IS GOING TO BE BEHIND A METER, UM, AND THE ISOLATION DEVICE WILL, UM, CUT OFF THAT FROM IN BETWEEN THE BATTERY AND THE GRID.
SO WHEN THERE'S A GRID FAILURE, THAT ISOLATION DEVICE OPENS UP.
SO IT CAN'T PUSH ANY ENERGY BACK TO THE GRID.
SO THE BATTERY SITS THERE DOWNSTREAM FROM THAT IS THE CUSTOMER'S METER.
SO ANY CONSUMPTION THAT THEY HAVE FLOWS THROUGH THAT METER, THEY GET CHARGED FOR IT.
IF THEY HAVE, IF THE CUSTOMER HAS PV, THEN THE PV ENERGY THAT THEY PRODUCE, UM, AT THE TIME OF CONSUMPTION WILL BE CONSUMED BY THE HOUSE.
[00:50:01]
ANY EXTRA PRODUCTION WILL FLOW BACK TO THE GRID JUST LIKE IT ALWAYS DOES.INSTEAD OF FLOWING ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE GRID, IT WILL FLOW BACK TO THE BATTERY.
THE CUSTOMER WILL CONTINUE TO GET THE VALUE OF SOLAR CREDIT FOR ALL OF THEIR PRODUCTION.
SO FROM A CUSTOMER BILLING STANDPOINT, IT DOESN'T CHANGE AT ALL.
UM, BUT THAT BATTERY WILL, UM, INHERENTLY ABSORB THAT ENERGY THAT WOULD BE PUSHED BACK TO THE GRID NORMALLY.
AND SO, UM, TO THAT END, THE CUSTOMER COULD HAVE LONGER AUTONOMY IF THEY HAVE EXISTING SOLAR.
SO THAT, THAT WAS MY MAIN QUESTION IS LIKE, I, I GET IT, LIKE WHEN THE GRID'S UP AND EVERYTHING'S FINE, HOW EVERYTHING, HOW EVERYTHING FLOWS, BUT LIKE IF, IF I DON'T, SAY WE HAD ANOTHER UID, WE'RE OUT FOR FOUR DAYS WITH SOMEONE THAT'S GOT ONE OF THESE BATTERIES AND THEY'VE GOT SOLAR, LIKE WOULD THERE, WOULD THEY BE ABLE TO LAST LONGER THAN JUST WHAT THEY HAVE IN THE TANK OF THE BATTERY AT THE TIME WHEN THE GRID WENT DOWN? YES.
BECAUSE THE SOLAR'S REDUCING THEIR CONSUMPTION AND THE ENERGY PUSHED BACK ACROSS THE METER WILL GO TO THE BATTERY.
BUT IT WOULD ALL BE METERED AT THE, OR IT WOULD ALL THE, THE FINANCIALS WOULD STILL WORK OUT VALUE OF SOLAR TARIFF COMING, THE BATTERY RATE GOING BACK INTO THE HOUSE FROM THE BATTERY, ET CETERA.
SO TIM, LET'S NO, YOU'RE NOT DONE YET ON THIS ONE.
IS THERE A TIME LIMIT ON THIS? NO, THERE'S NO TIME LIMIT.
I SAY THERE'S NO TIME LIMIT ON THIS TOPIC.
UM, SO YOU'RE SAYING THERE'S THE METER, THE TRANSFER SWITCH, AND THEN THE BATTERY, OR ARE YOU SAYING THAT THE TRANSFER SWITCH IN SOME WAY IS ORGANIZED WHERE IF AE POWERS OUT AND THEY'RE HAVING TO GO OFF GRID, YOU'RE STILL GONNA GET BILLED FOR T AND D CHARGES IN SOME WAY FROM THE AE METER, SO THE, THE CUSTOMER'S SERVICE WON'T STOP AND THE CUSTOMER WILL GET BILLED AS IF THE GRID WAS UP.
DID THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? AND, AND TO, TO KIND OF GIVE YOU THE ORDER.
OPERATE LIKE THE GRID, THEN THE ISOLATION DEVICE, THEN THE BATTERY OR WELL, THE GRID, THE METER FOR THE BATTERY ISOLATION DEVICE, BATTERY METER FOR THE CUSTOMER, AND THEN THE CUSTOMER'S LOAD AND OR GENERATION.
SO WE'RE GONNA HAVE THREE METERS, ONE FOR PDV, ONE FOR THE HOMES, AND THEN ONE FOR THE BATTERY IN, IN THAT CASE.
WELL, YOU KNOW, IF YOU PROVIDE CONTINUOUS SERVICE, THEN I CAN SEE A RATIONALE THERE.
AND THAT, AND THAT THE NEW METER, UM, IS BASICALLY, UM, SHOWING ALL THAT ACTIVITY FROM, FROM THE BATTERY AS A SECONDARY LIKE POINT OF TELEMETRY.
AND USUALLY THOSE BATTERIES FROM DIFFERENT VENDORS HAVE REVENUE GRADE TELE OR, UH, METROLOGY ON THEM.
SO YOU JUST DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH USING THAT THAT'S ON BOARD OR YOU HAVE TO HAVE A ANOTHER THAT'S REALLY THE METER WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE BATTERY.
OH, SO YOU USE THE ONBOARD BEHIND THE METER.
BECAUSE IT HAS CTS AND SUPPOSEDLY REVENUE GRADE.
SO IT'LL REALLY BE YET ANOTHER METER THAT I HEAR COMPLAINTS ABOUT OUR SECOND METER.
SOMETIMES YOU'LL JUST USE THE EXISTING ONBOARD WITHIN THE BATTERY, TYPICALLY CTS AND METROLOGY.
TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION EARLIER, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THIS AND THE, AND, UM, THE, THE CUSTOMER FACING BATTERY PROGRAM IS LIKE, ONE OF THE BIG DIFFERENCES IS FUNCTIONALITY.
LIKE YOU MENTIONED BEFORE, THERE'S LIKE 40, UM, PER YEAR, 40, UM, EVENTS PER YEAR THAT WE CAN DO THROUGH THE OTHER PROGRAM.
AND WHEN THEY DO, IT'S ALL, UM, CHASING THE FOUR CP.
IT DOES, THEY DON'T DO ARBITRAGE THROUGH THAT PROGRAM.
SO, AND I MAY HAVE NECESSARILY YOU DIDN'T SAY 40 MINUTES? 40 EVENTS.
SO, SO IT'S, IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE LIMITED FUNCTIONALITY THAN WHAT WE'RE GETTING THROUGH THE BASE CONTRACT.
DO YOU SEE TIM EVER EXPANDING THAT TO A, A SECOND TIER OF, OF PARTICIPATION FROM THE, FROM THE HOME BATTERY SIDE? LIKE DO, UH, WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY A SECOND TIER OF PARTICIPATION TO, TO GO TO MORE, MORE THAN 40 CYCLES A YEAR.
SO, UM, A GREATER PARTICIPATION, THE PROVIDER THAT WE'RE WORKING FOR IS WORKING ON THAT FUNCTIONALITY TO INCREASE IT.
UM, YOU KNOW, CURRENTLY, LIKE I SAID, THEY, THEY CAN ONLY CHASE FOUR CP, BUT IDEALLY, YOU KNOW, WE CAN, WE CAN CALL THOSE TO MARKET JUST LIKE WE'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO CALL BASE TO MARKET.
SO, SO IT'S IN THE WORD, BUT IT'S, IT IS A PATH.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? WELL, THANKS PAT.
ENJOYED MY, UH, BRIEF VISIT HERE.
[00:55:01]
DO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND? I'D BE HAPPY TO HAPPY, HAPPY TO, UH, OKAY.JOSH RHODES GET THE ALL AS A SECOND.
I THINK WE SEE ALL HANDS PASSES.
[9. Conduct officer elections for the Chair and Vice Chair of the Electric Utility Commission.]
OFFICER ELECTIONS CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR.UM, ANYBODY WANNA BE CHAIR? GOD? NO.
HOW MANY KIDNEYS DO YOU HAVE? I HAVE ONE LEFT.
SO I THINK WE VOTE CHAIR FIRST, THEN VICE CHAIR, RIGHT.
SO ALL IN FAVOR OF ME BEING CHAIR FOR ANOTHER YEAR.
DO WE NEED A MOTION AND A SECOND ON THAT, NIKKI? YES, PLEASE.
I WILL MAKE A MOTION TO A SECOND REELECT.
NO, FOR ONE MORE YEAR FOR LIFE.
ALL IN FAVOR? THANK YOU CHAIR.
WHO ELSE WANTS TO TO BE VICE CHAIR? UM, ANYONE RUNNING FOR AN OFFICER NEEDS TO BE PRESENT.
I'M SORRY, NIKKI, WHAT DID YOU SAY? ALSO, UM, ANYONE RUNNING FOR OFFICE NEEDS TO BE PRESENT PER THE INSTRUCTIONS I SENT OUT ON APRIL 9TH.
I AM, I AM PRESENT, BUT I AM NOT LOOKING TO CONTINUE ON, BUT THANK YOU.
OKAY, SO WHO WANTS TO BE VICE CHAIR? I SEE MANY GOOD CANDIDATES.
JOSH RHODES, ALTHOUGH HE HAS A YOUNGIN.
I DON'T KNOW IF HE WANTS TO BE VICE CHAIR.
MAYBE NEXT TIME I A LITTLE BUSY AT THE HOUSE.
WE DO MOST OF THE WORK ANYWAY.
HOW ABOUT YOUNG? CHRIS GILETTE? IT'S PRONOUNCED GILLETTE.
HAD YOU BEEN VICE CHAIR? I WOULD'VE KNOWN THAT.
ARE YOU ARE? ARE YOU INTERESTED? UM, I THINK THAT IT WOULD BE, UM, CHALLENGING FOR ME TO, TO CHAIR A MEETING, UH, IF I, IF I HAD TO.
IT HAS TO BE SOMEBODY ON THE EC
THIS DODGE, THIS IS DODGE BALL OR SOMETHING.
I, I'M NOT LOOKING TO RUN THINGS, BUT, UH, THE VICE CHAIR.
OKAY, SO WE NOMINATE AL AL ACCEPTS NOMINATION.
ALL IN FAVOR? WELL, YOU NEED PROBABLY NEED A SECOND.
I NOMINATE AL BRAD TO THE VICE CHAIR OF THE EC.
AND SORRY TO MISPRONOUNCE YOUR NAME.
COMMISSIONER AL BRADEN, VICE CHAIR.
[10. Staff briefing on the Value of Solar by Tim Harvey, Director, Customer Renewable Solutions.]
BRIEFINGS.SO WHAT'S NEW WITH VALUE SOLAR? THIS IS LIKE A 12-YEAR-OLD CONCEPT, RIGHT? IS THIS AN UPDATE FOR THE MORE THAN THAT? I, I IS IT WE PUT IT OUT IN 2012.
SO IS THIS, UH, CHANGING THE RATE BEYOND THE 9.9 NOW? YES.
SO WE'RE UPDATING THE RATE, UM, AND I'LL TELL Y'ALL ABOUT IT AS SOON AS THEY GET MY SLIDES GOING.
SO, GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS.
I'M THE DIRECTOR OF CUSTOMER RENEWABLE SOLUTIONS.
I, TONIGHT I'M GONNA BE PRESENTING THE VALUE OF SOLAR UPDATE, UM, WHICH WILL
[01:00:01]
OCCUR LATER THIS YEAR.UH, IN THIS PRESENTATION I'M GONNA DO A VALUE OF SOLAR OVERVIEW AND GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF THE HISTORY.
UM, TALK ABOUT THE, THE METHODOLOGY AND THE CALCULATION OF THE RATE.
UM, THE RATE ADJUSTMENT PLAN WILL BE COVERED AS WELL AS I'LL GO INTO SOME DETAIL ABOUT, UM, THE SOCIETAL BENEFITS AND HOW WE CALCULATED THAT FOR THIS, UH, ROUND AND WHAT WE PLAN TO DO IN THE FUTURE.
UM, AND THEN I'LL TAKE QUESTIONS.
SO, THE VALUE OF SOLAR, UM, WAS FIRST IMPLEMENTED IN 2012, UM, AT THE VALUE OF SOLAR.
BASICALLY REPLACED NET METERING, WHICH HAD SOME INHERENT FLAWS.
UM, AND, AND THE WAY THE VALUE OF SOLAR WORKS IS IT'S A BUY ALL, SELL ALL RATE.
SO AUSTIN ENERGY PAYS THE CUSTOMER FOR ALL OF THEIR PRODUCTION, WHETHER THAT PRODUCTION IS CONSUMED ON SITE OR DELIVERED BACK TO THE GRID.
AND THEN WE CHARGE THE CUSTOMER FOR ALL OF THEIR CONSUMPTION, WHETHER THAT CONSUMPTION CAME FROM THE GRID OR FROM THE SOLAR GENERATION.
SO, UM, REPLACING NET METERING WAS, WAS VERY IMPORTANT FOR US.
AND, UM, A LOT OF UTILITIES WOULD PROBABLY LOVE TO FOLLOW SUIT.
HOWEVER, THEY LIKELY DON'T HAVE THE METERING THAT IT REQUIRES TO RUN A VALUE OF SOLAR RATE.
UM, AUSTIN IS SOMEWHAT UNIQUE IN THAT WE PUT AN EXTRA METER ON THE PV SYSTEMS FROM DAY ONE.
SO ALL OF OUR CUSTOMERS HAVE A PV METER AS WELL AS A REVENUE METER, AND THAT HELPS TO ENABLE THE RATE.
UM, REPLACING NET METERING WAS BENEFICIAL TO THE UTILITY BECAUSE NET METERING HAS SOME INHERENT FLAW, UH, THE FIRST OF WHICH IS THAT, UM, IT LIMITS THE UTILITY'S ABILITY TO RECOVER FIXED COSTS.
UM, SO IDEALLY, YOU KNOW, IN, IN A PERFECT WORLD, THE UTILITY WOULD RECOVER FIXED COSTS WITH FIXED CHARGES.
UM, BUT FOR VARIOUS REASONS WE CAN'T DO THAT.
UM, SO WE END UP PUTTING FIXED COST RECOVERY INTO THE VOLUMETRIC RATE, UM, THROUGH NET METERING.
THE CUSTOMER AVOIDS THE VOLUMETRIC RATE AND THEREFORE AVOIDS THE FIXED COST RECOVERY THAT THE UTILITY REQUIRES.
SO THEN THE UTILITY HAS TO CARRY THAT FOR, UH, A, A NUMBER OF YEARS TILL THE NEXT BASE RATE CASE TILL THEY CAN INCREASE RATES TO RECOVER.
AND THEN THEY'RE ALREADY UNDER RECOVERING AGAIN THE NEXT DAY.
SO IT'S, UM, SOMETIMES REFERRED TO AS THE UTILITY DEATH SPIRAL.
UM, BUT THIS IS AUSTIN ENERGY SOLUTION WAS THE VALUE OF SOLAR, AND IT REALLY WORKS TO SOLVE THAT PROBLEM.
SO THE UTILITY FULLY RECOVERS ALL THE TIME.
UM, ANOTHER ISSUE WITH NET METERING IS THAT IN A TIERED RATE STRUCTURE, LIKE WE HAVE, THE HIGHEST TIER CONSUMPTION RATE IS AVOIDED THROUGH, UM, SOLAR PRODUCTION AND NET METERING.
SO YOU HAVE SOME CUSTOMERS THAT MIGHT BE GETTING 16 PLUS CENTS, UM, FOR A VALUE FOR A KILOWATT HOUR OF ENERGY PRODUCED.
WHILE YOU MIGHT HAVE A VERY, UM, CONSERVATIVE CUSTOMER ONLY OFFSETTING THE FIRST YEAR AT LIKE 7 CENTS.
SO THERE WAS A DISPARITY BETWEEN THE VALUE THAT CUSTOMERS WERE GETTING, AND BECAUSE OF THAT, THE, THE, UM, HIGH CONSUMING CUSTOMERS WERE CAUSING OTHER CUSTOMERS TO HAVE TO SUBSIDIZE THEM WHILE THE LOW CONSUMING CUSTOMERS WERE NOT GETTING THE FULL VALUE FOR THEIR ENERGY.
SO, UM, THE VALUE OF SOLAR RATE SOLVES ALL THOSE PROBLEMS FOR US.
UM, SO ANOTHER THING TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT WHEN WE FIRST ROLLED OUT THE VALUE OF SOLAR RATE, UM, WE, UH, BASED IT ON AN EXISTING METHODOLOGY THAT WE HAD, UH, EMPLOYED A THIRD PARTY TO PROVIDE SO THAT WE COULD ANALYZE WHAT A, UM, SOLAR INVESTMENT WOULD LOOK LIKE ON OUR DISTRIBUTION GRID.
UM, AND SO THAT REALLY HELPED US BENCHMARK THE VALUE.
UM, THAT FIRST APPROACH WAS A FORWARD LOOKING APPROACH.
SO, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE A LOT OF ASSUMPTIONS INVOLVED IN THAT.
UM, IT, IT INCORPORATED A LOT OF DIFFERENT VALUES AND WITH THE BASE RATE CASE IN 2021 OR 2 22, UM, WE CHANGED THE METHODOLOGY FROM A FORWARD LOOKING APPROACH THAT HAD ASSUMPTIONS BUILT IN TO A BACKWARDS LOOKING APPROACH THAT'S KNOWN AND MEASURABLE.
SO I'M GONNA DIG INTO THAT, THOSE VALUES HERE ON THE NEXT SLIDE.
UM, SO, SO THE VALUE STACKING FOR THE VALUE OF SOLAR
[01:05:01]
IS AN AVOIDED COST PER APPROACH.SO THE IDEA IS THAT, UM, IF THE UTILITY IS AVOIDING, UM, ANY KIND OF MARKET COSTS OR ANY COSTS IN GENERAL, THEN WE CAN PASS THAT VALUE FORWARD THROUGH TO THE CUSTOMER WHO'S GENERATING THAT.
AND, UM, IT WILL NOT INCREASE COST TO OTHER CUSTOMERS BECAUSE IT REDUCES OR ELIMINATES ANY SUBSIDIZATION.
UM, SO THE FIRST VALUE THAT WE LOOK AT IN THE STUDY IS THE ENERGY VALUE.
WHEN A SOLAR GENERATOR ON THE DISTRIBUTION GRID GENERATES A KILOWATT HOUR, THAT'S A KILOWATT HOUR OF ENERGY THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO BUY OFF OF THE ERCOT MARKET AT THE PRICE AT THAT TIME.
SO WHAT WE DO IS WE LOOK AT THE PROFILE, UM, THE ANNUAL PROFILE ON A 15 MINUTE BASIS FOR, UM, OUR CUSTOMER'S PRODUCTION.
WE LINE THAT UP TO THE ERCOT MARKET PRICE FOR THAT TIME.
AND THEN WE DO A, AN ANALYSIS TO DETERMINE WHAT WAS THE VALUE OF ENERGY THAT WAS PRODUCED AT ANY POINT IN TIME OVER THE YEAR.
UM, AND WE, AND THEN WE DETERMINE WHAT THE AVERAGE, UM, PRICE PER KILOWATT HOUR OF, OF AVOIDED COST IS FOR THE ENERGY THAT WAY.
UM, FOR TRANSMISSION SAVINGS, UH, THE, THE TRANSMISSION COSTS FOR THE UTILITY ARE SET BY FOUR CP.
SO FOR THOSE WHO MAY NOT KNOW, FOR CP IS THE PEAK OF ERCOT FOR THE FOUR SUMMER MONTHS.
SO IT'S THE HIGHEST USAGE, 15 MINUTES IN JUNE, JULY, AUGUST AND SEPTEMBER.
UM, SO DURING THAT TIME, WHICH TYPICALLY HAPPENS AT THE END OF A HOT SUMMER DAY, UM, DURING OUR, OUR PEAK, UM, THE SOLAR PRODUCTION IS STARTING TO WANE, BUT IT'S STILL PRODUCING.
SO TO THE EXTENT THAT IT REDUCES AUSTIN ENERGY'S CONSUMPTION DURING THOSE 15 MINUTE WINDOWS, IT REDUCES OUR TRANSMISSION COSTS FOR THE WHOLE FOLLOWING NEXT YEAR.
SO THAT'S AN AVOIDED COST TO THE UTILITY THAT WE CALCULATE.
UM, AND THEN ANCILLARY SERVICE SAVINGS.
SO AUSTIN ENERGY, UM, WELL, THE, THE, THE WEIGHTED, UM, AVERAGE COST TO MAKE THE, THE GRID, UM, AVAILABLE TO MEET, UM, THE CUSTOMER'S LOAD AT ANY POINT IN TIME, UM, KIND OF OFFSETS THOSE OFFSET, UH, UH, ANCILLARY SERVICE COSTS TO THE UTILITY.
SO THERE'S AN AVOIDED COST VALUE THERE.
AND THEN FINALLY THE LAST ONE IS SOCIETAL BENEFITS AND IT'S LESS MARKET DRIVEN.
UM, THE SOCIETAL BENEFITS IS CALCULATED BY LOOKING AT THE ERCOT MARKETS, UM, CARBON INTENSITY AND ALIGNING THAT WITH THE SOCIETAL COST OF CARBON THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, UM, THAT REPORT THAT THIS FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
SO YOU'LL SEE, UH, THE FIVE YEARS, UM, OF, OF VALUES THAT GO TO AVERAGE OUT, AND THEN THAT'S, THAT BECOMES THE NEW VALUE OF SOLAR RATE.
SO BASICALLY THE VALUE OF SOLAR UPDATES ONCE EVERY THREE YEARS BASED ON A FIVE YEAR ROLLING AVERAGE.
SO WHEN WILL THIS SHOW UP ON AE CUSTOMER'S? BILLS THE CREDIT AT, UH, 12.88 CENTS PER KILOWATT HOUR.
UM, SO, SO, UM, YOU, YOU SEE ALL THE VALUES HERE.
UM, AND, AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE ENERGY, UM, LINE, THAT TOP ROW, UM, YOU'LL SEE THAT THE, THE ENERGY VALUE ON THE ERCOT MARKET CHANGES PRETTY DRAMATICALLY SOMETIMES.
UM, LOOK AT 23 TO 24, UM, AND, AND YOU'LL SEE A STARK REDUCTION THERE.
UM, AND BASICALLY WHAT THAT IS, IS THAT IN 24 AND IN 25, THERE WEREN'T REAL SIGNIFICANT EVENTS ON THE ERCOT MARKET THAT CAUSED THE PRICE TO GO UP REALLY HIGH.
SO ERCOT DOESN'T HAVE A CAPACITY MARKET, IT'S AN ALL ENERGY MARKET.
WHEN ERCOT NEEDS MORE CAPACITY, THEY PRICE SIGNAL IT THROUGH THE MARKET PRICE.
AND, UM, SO, YOU KNOW, THINGS LIKE, UM, AND A, A WEATHER EVENT CAN CAUSE THAT.
OR IF, UM, A LOT OF GENERATORS ARE OFFLINE FOR MAINTENANCE OR WHATEVER, AND THE, AND THERE'S AN UNEXPECTED DEMAND THAT NEEDS TO BE MET, UM, THEN THAT PRICE WILL GO UP.
UM, SOMETIMES TREMENDOUSLY FROM, YOU KNOW, HOVERING AROUND $35 A MEGAWATT HOUR, ALL THE WAY UP TO POTENTIALLY $5,000 A MEGAWATT HOUR.
SO JUST ONE EVENT CAN DRIVE THE VALUE OF SOLAR NUMBER QUITE A BIT.
THAT'S WHY WE DON'T CHANGE IT EVERY YEAR, BECAUSE THEN IT WOULD GO UP AND DOWN ALL THE TIME.
[01:10:01]
A, A MAJOR IMPACT ON THE MARKET.UM, SO WE'RE, WE'RE AVERAGING THOSE OUT.
UM, TIM, WHY DID THE SOCIETAL BENEFITS GO UP SO MUCH BETWEEN FISCAL YEAR 23 AND 24? I'M GONNA ADDRESS THAT IN ANOTHER SLIDE AS WELL.
YEAH, NO, BUT IT'S, IT'S A GOOD OBSERVATION.
UM, SO, BUT, BUT JUST TO SUMMARIZE THIS SLIDE A LITTLE BIT MORE, ALL THE WAY TO THE RIGHT, YOU'LL SEE THE AVERAGE COLUMN.
SO THAT'S AVERAGING OUT THE FIVE YEARS FOR EACH VALUE.
THEN WE ADD THOSE UP AND THAT'S WHAT MAKES THE NEW VALUE OF SOLAR.
SO FOR SYSTEMS UNDER A MEGAWATT IS 12.88 CENTS FOR SYSTEMS OVER MEGAWATT, IT'S 10.21 CENTS.
UM, AND, AND THE REASON THAT THE SYSTEMS OVER MEGAWATT GET A LOWER VALUE IS BECAUSE, UH, WE HAVE TO ADD THOSE BACK IN AND THEY DON'T GET TRANSMISSION BENEFITS FOR AUSTIN ENERGY.
SO THE, THE TRANSMISSION SERVICE SAVINGS IS SURPRISING THAT IT WENT DOWN.
SO IS THAT LIKE THE ERCOT TCOS SHARE OR WAS THAT A, A REFLECTION OF LOWER CONGESTION COST IN ERCOT? OR WHAT'S THE MIX? HOW DID IT GO FROM, LOOKS LIKE MORE OF A TYPICAL AVERAGE OF 3 CENTS.
I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT.
I'LL HAVE TO GO BACK AND, AND ASK THE FOLKS THAT RAN THAT ANALYSIS.
THAT'S AN ASTONISHING RANGE OF ENERGY PRICES THOUGH, THAT THAT REFLECTS 21 TO 22, 23 BEING VERY, VERY TOUGH WEATHER YEARS VERY HOT.
WAS YURI IN THE F 21? JURY WAS 21, MARA WAS 22 OR THREE.
SO WE'VE GOT THE BENEFIT OF A LOT OF THINGS IN 24 AND 25.
WE'VE GOT A LOT BETTER WEATHER TEMPORARILY.
WE'VE GOT BETTER BATTERIES, WE'VE GOT A LOT OF THINGS IT DIDN'T HAPPEN, BUT MM-HMM
WHEN THOSE THREE YEARS ROLL OFF, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO DO SOMETHING TO STABILIZE THE VALUE OF SOLAR.
WELL, IT'S A ROLLING AVERAGE, SO WE'LL HAVE TO SEE WHAT THE FUTURE YEARS HOLD AS WELL.
I MEAN, WE'VE GOT DATA CENTERS COMING, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, WE HAVE A CONFLICT IN IRAN.
UM, YOU KNOW, THESE KIND OF THINGS WILL HELP, WILL DRIVE THE PRICE OF, YOU KNOW, AND OTHER THINGS.
SO WE'LL, WE'LL WATCH IT, BUT YEAH, I MEAN, IT COULD, IT COULD MEAN THAT THE VALUE GOES DOWN, UM, OVER, UH, FOR THE, FOR THE NEXT ADJUSTMENT.
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN.
THIS IS A FIVE YEAR AVERAGE UPDATED EVERY THREE YEARS, RIGHT? THAT'S CORRECT.
SO THOSE THREE YEARS WOULD ALL ROLL OFF NEXT CYCLE IS WHAT? THAT'S CORRECT.
UH, BUT AL IF ENERGY PRICES GO DOWN FOR EVERY RESIDENT IN TEXAS, THAT'S A GOOD THING.
EVEN IF IT MEANS PAY PEOPLE WITH SOLAR PAY BACK, IT GOES FOR 27 YEARS.
BUT WHAT THE HELL? SO
35 GIGAWATT OF SOLAR ON THE SYSTEM.
YEAH, THAT'S A GOOD THING TOO.
ANCILLARY SERVICES IS, HAS COLLAPSED TO NEXT TO NOTHING.
I WOULD ASSUME THAT'S LARGELY BECAUSE OF THE BATTERY.
IT'LL, IT CAN GO BACK UP THOUGH WHEN THEY'RE, THEY'RE GONNA BE
AND I'M SORRY IF YOU SAID THIS, BUT, UM, ARE YOU PLANNING TO SHIFT TO A SIX YEAR ROLLING AVERAGE FOR THE NEXT UPDATE? UM, I THINK THAT'S A GOOD SUGGESTION.
IT'S NOT CURRENTLY, UM, IN, IN THE PLAN, BUT IT'S, IT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING TO CONSIDER AND WE'LL HAVE TIME TO DO THAT BEFORE THE NEXT UPDATE AND WE HAVE OTHER CONSIDERATIONS AS WELL BEFORE THE NEXT UPDATE.
SO, UM, I'LL GET TO THOSE AND PROBABLY THE NEXT SLIDE IF I WANNA MOVE FORWARD.
I MEAN, I THINK AS WE'VE DISCUSSED THE FIVE YEAR ROLLING AVERAGE, I DON'T KNOW HOW, HOW WE ENDED UP EXACTLY WITH FIVE AND THINK SOMEBODY SAID THE NUMBER AND WE'RE LIKE, SURE.
AND, UH, YEAH, IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
'CAUSE SOME, SOME YEARS GET COUNTED ONCE AND SOME GET COUNTED TWICE.
SO YEAH, SIX YEARS WOULD GIVE EACH YEAR TWO UM, SHOTS AT THE VALUE OF SOLAR.
SO THAT JUST MAKES MORE SENSE.
NEXT, DOES 21 INCLUDE YURI? JUST THE, THE ENERGY NUMBERS LOOK LOW? PARDON ME? DOES 21 DOES, UH, DID, WAS YURI TAKEN OUT OF FY 21 FOR THIS ANALYSIS? NO.
YURI ADDED OVER 2 CENTS OF VALUE TO THE 2021 ENERGY.
UM, IF YOU GO BACK TO THAT LAST CHART, IT, IT MAY HAVE ACTUALLY, WELL LOOK AT 22, WHERE IT'S 10 CENTS, WHERE 21
[01:15:01]
IS 6.60 CENTS.I THINK THE CALENDAR VERSUS FISCAL YEAR CONFUSES THINGS.
WHEN'S THE FI WHEN'S THE FISCAL YEAR AGAIN? WELL, I THOUGHT FISCAL YEAR, IS IT, IT'S OCTOBER TO SEPTEMBER.
I, SO WOULD FISCAL YEAR OF 21 START WITH OCTOBER 21, 20? I SORRY.
WAS SO JURY SHOULD BE IN THERE.
BUT WE HAD A LOT OF HEAT, A LOT OF HOT SUMMER DAYS IN 22 AND 23.
WELL, THEY ALSO RAN IT CONSERVATIVE, SO THEY, THEY SAID, WE'RE GONNA HAVE, WE'RE NOT GONNA DO THIS AGAIN.
AND, UH, STATE LEADERSHIP I THINK SHIFTED A LOT TO A LOT OF COST ADDED.
AND THAT TOOK SOME THAT BOOSTED ENERGY PRICES, RIGHT? YEAH, YEAH.
AS HAS ALSO DOUBLED THAT YEAR VERSUS, YEAH.
SO, UM, THESE, THOSE VALUES ARE ALREADY POSTED ON OUR WEBSITE ON THE VALUE OF SOLAR PAGE.
UM, THIS MOVES THROUGH THE 2020 OR THE FY 27 BUDGET PROCESS.
UM, AND THE RATE WILL BECOME EFFECTIVE NOVEMBER 1ST WITH ALL OF THE OTHER RATES.
SO NOW I WANNA KIND OF DIVE INTO THE SOCIETAL BENEFIT CALCULATION.
UM, SO THE CALCULATION THAT WAS AGREED ON IN THE RATE PA IN THE RATE CASE IS ESSENTIALLY WE TAKE THE, UM, SOCIAL COST OF CARBON REPORT, WHICH PUTS A DOLLAR PER TON, UM, VALUE OUT, AND THEN WE MULTIPLY THAT TIMES THE ERCOT MARKET, UM, THE, UM, CARBON AND 10, WHICH PUTS, UM, HOW WAS IT? IT PUTS, UH, UH, CARBON PER KILOWATT HOUR, UM, OR SORRY, A A TON OF CARBON PER KILOWATT HOUR, UM, FIGURE OUT SO THAT WE CAN TAKE THOSE, UM, MULTIPLY THEM, AND THEN YOU GET, UM, A, A COST PER KILOWATT HOUR.
SO, UM, THE ORIGINAL APPROACH THAT WAS AGREED ON IN THE 2022 BASE RATE CASE, UM, LOOKED AT TEST.
WE LOOKED AT, UM, THE SOCIETAL COST OF CARBON REPORT FROM THE WHITE HOUSE AT THAT TIME.
UM, AND IT, IT BASICALLY GIVES THREE DIFFERENT DISCOUNT RATES.
SO AT THAT TIME IT WAS TWO AND, OR IT WAS 2%, 3%, AND 5%.
UM, IT WAS LIKE THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD.
IT'S NOT TOO CONSERVATIVE, NOT TOO, UM, UNCONSERVATIVE, 'CAUSE I CAN'T THINK OF THE WORD, UM,
BUT, UM, AT, AT ANY RATE, IT WAS KIND OF THE MILL ROAD VALUE THAT EVERYBODY AGREED UPON.
UM, AND THEN, AND, AND THAT 2021 REPORT PROVIDED A FUTURE OUTLOOK LIKE A, A, A INCLINING VALUES FOR FUTURE YEARS.
SO IT HAD 20, I THINK 2020 THROUGH 2025 IN THAT REPORT.
UM, SO THAT WAS THE PREVAILING REPORT FOR FY 21, FY 22, AND FY 23.
IN NOVEMBER OF 23, THEY CAME OUT WITH A NEW REPORT.
THE NEW REPORT HAD DIFFERENT, UM, DISCOUNT RATES, AND THE HIGHEST DISCOUNT RATE WAS TWO AND A HALF CENTS.
SO THE LOWER THE DISCOUNT RATE, THE MORE VALUE IN PRESENT TERMS IT GIVES, IT'S LIKE IT VALUES THE FUTURE MORE.
UM, SO, UM, BASICALLY BY MOVING FROM 3% TO 2.5%, THAT INCREASED THE VALUE.
WE REACHED OUT TO THE EPA AND SAID, HEY, CAN YOU GIVE US A THREE P 3% NUMBER? AND THEY WERE LIKE, NO, WE CAN'T DO THAT.
UM, SO WE, WE JUST WENT WITH THE TWO AND A HALF PERCENT.
UM, AND SO YOU'LL SEE, AND YOU NOTICE THAT'S WHY THE VALUE GOES UP IN 24.
AND THEN THAT WAS PREVAILING AGAIN IN 25.
NOW, FAST FORWARD TO 26, AND THE PREVAILING NUMBER IS ZERO, UM, BECAUSE IT'S A HOAX BECAUSE OF THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION'S VIEW OF THE VALUE OF REDUCING CARBON.
UM, AND SO WHILE THAT MAY BE SOME PEOPLE'S VIEW, UM, IN AUSTIN, WE DON'T THINK THAT THAT REFLECTS AUSTIN'S MENTALITY, UM, TOWARDS THIS AND CERTAINLY NOT THE UTILITIES MENTALITY.
[01:20:01]
MOVE FORWARD TO THE NEXT ITERATION OF THE VALUE OF SOLAR, THE NEXT UPDATE, UM, WE WILL HAVE TO HAVE SOME STAKEHOLDER MEETINGS TO DETERMINE HOW WE CALCULATE THAT VALUE AS WE MOVE FORWARD.SO THOSE STAKEHOLDER MEETINGS WILL BE FORTHCOMING AFTER WE CHANGE THIS, UH, PROBABLY IN 2027, UM, SO THAT WE CAN, UM, YOU KNOW, DISCUSS WITH Y'ALL AND WITH THE COMMUNITY WHAT A LOGICAL APPROACH IS TO, TO CREATING THAT VALUE AS WE MOVE FORWARD.
POTENTIALLY WE CHANGE TO A SIX YEAR ROLLING AVERAGE AT THAT POINT AS WELL.
ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE SOCIETAL BENEFITS? ANY QUESTIONS IN GENERAL? SO, SORRY.
ON SOCIETAL BENEFITS, WE MADE THE DECISION ON A POLICY BASIS TO GO WITH CO SOCIAL COST OF CARBON, BUT WE COULD ALSO CONSIDER OTHER THINGS LIKE THE COST OF REDUCING LOCAL POLLUTION BECAUSE WE HAVE SOLAR VERSUS RUNNING OTHER THINGS, RIGHT? THERE'S, THERE ARE OTHER THINGS WE COULD LOOK AT DEFINITELY.
I MEAN, YEAH, THERE'S DEFINITELY OTHER THINGS AND THERE'S OTHER REPORTS AS WELL.
I THINK, YOU KNOW, LAWRENCE BERKELEY, UM, PUTS OUT A REPORT, UM, SOME OTHER REPORTS MAYBE THAT AREN'T AS POLITICALLY, UM, YOU KNOW, TIED TO POLITICS, UM, WOULD PROBABLY SERVE US BETTER.
THE, THE METHODOLOGY THAT THE EPA USED TO USE PROBABLY STILL EXISTS IN THE, IN A, YOU KNOW, UNIVERSITY OR THINK TANK SOMEWHERE THAT WE COULD JUST ADOPT AND, AND CARRY FORWARD IF WE CHOSE TO DO THAT.
AND I THINK, I THINK THAT L LAWRENCE BERKELEY REPORT IS VERY SIMILAR.
UM, SO, UM, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? UM, JUST THINKING THAT IF THERE'S WAYS THAT YOU CAN HELP, AND I MAY GET SOME OF THESE COMMENTS MORE THAN YOU, I DON'T KNOW, BUT, YOU KNOW, COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE SECOND METER.
UH, SOME EITHER MISUNDERSTANDING OR PURPOSEFUL MISUNDERSTANDING OF THE DIFFERENCE, YOU KNOW, WHEN A SURROUNDING UTILITIES ARE PAYING FOUR OR 5 CENTS AT MOST, BUT THEY DO NET METERING WITH SINGLE METER, AND THEN AUSTIN ENERGY'S PAYING 10 TO NOW ALMOST 13 CENTS.
IT TAKES A LITTLE BIT MORE MATH TO REALLY DO IT.
I MEAN, CAN YOU PUT SOME MORE, UH, MATERIAL ON THE WEB UNDER VALUE SOLAR OR UNDER THE EXPLAINER THAT SAYS THIS IS HOW YOUR SOLAR, UH, I WOULDN'T CREDIT IS CALCULATED.
SOMETHING MORE THAT HELPS EXPLAIN THE RATIONALE AND WHY YOU HAVE A SECOND METER, WHY IT'S $150, I GUESS, AND YOU GET IT PAID BACK PROBABLY WITHIN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.
AND THEN I KNOW YOU DON'T WANT TO POINT OUT SOME OF THE PROBLEMS OF OTHER UTILITIES, BUT WHEN I WAS LOOKING AT WHAT HAPPENED IN CALIFORNIA WITH NET METERING 2.0 GOING TO 3.0, IT WAS HIGHLY DISRUPTIVE TO THE SOLAR INDUSTRY THERE.
AND BASICALLY THEY WERE DOING THAT TO TRY TO MAKE IT SO THAT POOR PEOPLE WEREN'T SUBSIDIZING WEALTHIER PEOPLE'S SOLAR SYSTEMS. MM-HMM
AND YOU'VE ALREADY SOLVED THIS 14 YEARS AGO, BUT I JUST WONDER IF THERE'S SOME MORE MARKETING MATERIALS THAT YOU COULD PUT OUT OR EXPLAINERS MM-HMM
NOT MARKETING AS IN TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, PRETTY IT UP MORE THAN IT IS, BUT IT'S A VERY CLEVER PROGRAM THAT WAS LEADERSHIP AND THERE WAS GOOD LOGIC, BUT I JUST DON'T THINK IT'S APPRECIATED SOMETIMES.
WELL, I THINK WHAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED, IF YOU COULD MAKE THAT INTO A ONE PAGER, IT COVERS A LOT OF GROUND.
WE, IT TALKS ABOUT THE SOCIAL JUSTICE ASPECTS AND, AND THE FAIRNESS AND THE, YOU KNOW, PAYING FOR THE WIRES AND THE OTHER PARTS OF THE SYSTEM THAT NEED PAYMENT.
SO IT WOULD JUST BE GOOD IN THE, IN THE IN PUBLIC EYE AS A KIND OF WHITE, THERE'S A ONE PAGE WHITE PAPER MAYBE.
WE'LL, WE'LL LOOK AT, UM, WE'LL LOOK AT THAT.
AND I KNOW WE JUST, UH, UM, UPDATED THE WEBSITE.
SO GO HAVE A LOOK AND, AND SEE, UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU'RE GONNA SEE A BIT MORE DETAIL, ESPECIALLY AS IT IT PERTAINS TO THE VALUE OF SOLAR.
UM, BUT THAT, THAT, THAT'S, THAT INPUT'S WELL RECEIVED.
UH, THANK YOU FOR THE UPDATE, TIM.
UM, I, I, I REALLY JUST HAVE MORE OF A, A COMMENT, YOU KNOW, UH, I THINK FIRST OF ALL, FOR THOSE WHO AREN'T FAMILIAR WITH THESE, SO SOCIAL COSTS OF CARBON, UH,
[01:25:01]
REPORTS, UM, THEY ARE BOTH STILL AVAILABLE ONLINE, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE EVERYTHING GETS, UH, ARCHIVED SO YOU CAN STILL FIND THEM.UM, AND THAT 2023 REPORT WAS VERY ROBUST, SCIENTIFICALLY SPEAKING.
YOU KNOW, IT WAS A, UM, ROBUST, UM, GROUP OF SCIENTISTS THAT, UH, WERE, YOU KNOW, BROUGHT TOGETHER BY THE EPA TO PUT THAT TOGETHER.
AND THEN IT WAS ALSO PEER REVIEWED BY ADDITIONAL SCIENTISTS.
SO, UM, I THINK, YOU KNOW, MY VIEW IS WE, WE, WE HAVE A GREAT SOURCE THERE.
WE JUST UNFORTUNATELY HAVE A, YOU KNOW, CLIMATE DENYING ADMINISTRATION RIGHT NOW.
AND, AND THANK GOODNESS THAT AUSTIN ENERGY DOES NOT, UH, FOLLOW THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT, UH, WAY OF THINKING.
SO I APPRECIATE THAT AND, YOU KNOW, LOOK FORWARD TO CONTINUED CONVERSATION.
BUT JUST, YOU KNOW, ONE OF FOLKS THAT ARE, THAT ARE LISTENING TO THE CONVERSATION THAT MAYBE AREN'T AS FAMILIAR NOT TO, UM, HAVE A BUNCH OF CONCERN, YOU KNOW, THESE NUMBERS, UH, THEY INCREASED BECAUSE CLIMATE CHANGE IS HAVING AN EFFECT.
AND THAT'S WHAT THE, YOU KNOW, LATEST SCIENCE AS OF 2023 WAS SHOWING THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE IMPACTS ARE NOT SO FAR OFF, PERHAPS AS THEY WERE, UH, HOPED TO BE A DECADE BEFORE THAT.
UM, AND SO HENCE THE DISCOUNT RATES REDUCING, UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE FUTURE, THE FUTURE'S HERE FASTER THAN, THAN MAYBE WE HOPED, UH, IN TERMS OF BAD IMPACTS.
UM, AND THE COST HAVE BEEN VERY SIGNIFICANT.
SO, YOU KNOW, AND NOAH HAS TRACKED SOME OF THOSE, YOU KNOW, TEXAS HAS BEEN LEADING THE WAY AND BILLION DOLLAR WEATHER DISASTERS, UM, YOU KNOW, MOSTLY CLIMATE RELATED.
UM, SO I THINK THIS, THIS INCREASE, UH, REFLECTS REALITY, UNFORTUNATELY, LIKE CLIMATE CHANGE IS, IS EXPENSIVE.
UM, SCIENTISTS HAVE BEEN TELLING US THAT FOR DECADES THAT IT IS GOING TO BE EXPENSIVE.
AND, UH, YOU KNOW, NOW THIS RATE IS, IS REF REFLECT REFLECTING THAT REALITY.
SO JUST WANNA SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, I'M, I'M ALL FOR HAVING MORE CONVERSATION IN FY 27.
UM, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THE 2.5 DISCOUNT RATE ISN'T THE RIGHT, UH, NUMBER.
MAYBE IT'S ONE OF THE, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THAT WAS THE HIGHEST IN THE REPORT.
UM, AND LOOK FORWARD TO ADDITIONAL CONVERSATION ON THAT.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? ALRIGHT, WELL, THANKS TIM.
[11. Staff Briefing on Austin Energy Transmission Work by David Tomczyszyn, Vice President of Electric System Engineering and Technical Services.]
BRIEFING ON TRANSMISSION.DAVID, TOM, IS THERE A CLICKER? OH.
UH, GOOD EVENING, UH, COMMISSIONERS.
I'M DAVID TOM CHESON, VICE PRESIDENT OF, UH, ELECTRIC SYSTEM ENGINEERING AND TECHNICAL SERVICES AT AUSTIN ENERGY.
UH, TODAY I'M HERE TO TALK ABOUT TRANSMISSION, UM, EVEN BEFORE I START, UH, TRANSMISSION.
YOU KNOW, UH, IT REALLY IS THE BACKBONE, UM, TO TRANSPORT POWER AROUND, UH, YOU KNOW, THE GRID, WHETHER THAT'S AN ERCOT OR, YOU KNOW, ACROSS THE WORLD.
IT ALSO, UH, AFFORDS OPPORTUNITIES TO BRING, UH, UH, RENEWABLES AND CARPENTRY SOURCES TO AUSTIN THAT MAY NOT OTHERWISE BE BE AVAILABLE, WHETHER THAT'S WIND IN THE COAST OR IN THE PAN HILL HANDLE AND, AND, AND SO FORTH.
SO, WITH THAT IS, UM, VERY, VERY IMPORTANT.
AND, UM, WITH THAT, WE'LL GO AHEAD AND MOVE ON TO THE NEXT SLIDE.
SO, UH, TODAY I'M GONNA TALK BRIEFLY ABOUT JUST OVERVIEW, OVERVIEW OF THE AE SYSTEM.
I'M GONNA DISCUSS THE PLANNING PROCESS, THEN I'M GONNA TALK ABOUT A'S, UH, FIVE YEAR CAPITAL, UH, IMPROVEMENT PLAN.
THEN I'M GONNA TALK ABOUT CHALLENGES AND BUILDING, UH, UH, TRANSMISSION.
AND THEN FINALLY KIND OF TIE IT ALL BACK TO THE RESOURCE, UH, GENERATION PLAN.
UH, YOU PROBABLY HAVE SEEN THIS SLIDE BEFORE.
I'M NOT GONNA GO THROUGH ALL OF IT.
UM, IT COVERS TRANSMISSION, UH, TO THE LEFT, ALL THE WAY TO DISTRIBUTION TO THE RIGHT.
BUT I DO WANNA FOCUS JUST REALLY ON THE TRANSMISSION AND IN PARTICULAR, ADDED A BOX, UH, JUST SO THE BOTTOM IS KIND OF BREAKING IT DOWN.
SO, UH, WE HAVE ABOUT 630 MILES OF TRANSMISSION.
WE ARE OWNER OF TRANSMISSION ERCOT.
SO WE OWN, UH, 630 MILES, UH, THAT IS BROKEN DOWN TO, UH, 26 MILES OF 69 KV.
UM, WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF UPGRADING THAT TO 1 38.
SO WITHIN TIME, WE WILL, WE MAY NOT HAVE ANY, UM, THAT IS OUR, OUR GOAL, ANY 69 KV.
UM, WE HAVE 328 MILES OF 138 KV, AND WE HAVE 276 MILES OF 345, UH, KV HERE IN ERCOT.
SO WHY DON'T WE TALK MORE ABOUT TRANSMISSION? I KNOW THAT'S A LOT OF THE QUESTIONS THAT EVERYBODY ASKS IS, UM, YOU KNOW, WHY DON'T WE TALK ABOUT IT MORE PUBLICLY AND SO FORTH? AND REALLY, IT COMES DOWN TO TWO, TWO MAIN REASONS.
UH, AND SO THE FIRST ONE IS THE, UM, NERC, WHICH IS THE NORTH AMERICAN ELECTRIC RELIABILITY CORPORATION.
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RECOGNIZES THAT TRANSMISSION IS CRITICAL PROTECTED INFRASTRUCTURE.AND SO WE DON'T WANT THAT INFORMATION TO GET IN THE HANDS OF BAD ACTORS.
IF YOU KNOW WHERE, UM, YOU KNOW, KEY INFRASTRUCTURE IS IN THE GRID OR AREAS THAT ARE, ARE TIED OR CONSTRAINED OR SO FORTH, UH, BEFORE UPGRADES CAN BE NEEDED, UM, BAD ACTORS CAN DO BAD THINGS WITH THAT INFORMATION.
AND THAT COULD IMPACT, UH, RELIABILITY, UH, TO NOT JUST, UM, THE 570,000 CUSTOMERS HERE IN AUSTIN, BUT, UM, UH, THE GRID ITSELF AND, AND THE SURROUNDING AREA OF AUSTIN.
THE OTHER REASON IS, IS BECAUSE OF, UH, THE PUBLIC UTILITY COMMISSION IN ERCOT, UH, REQUIRE THAT WE MAINTAIN STANDARDS OF CONDUCT, UH, WE CALL IT CO CODE OF CONDUCT, SUCH THAT WE MAINTAIN FAIR AND OPEN, UH, MARKET.
AND SO HAVING INFORMATION FOR ALL MARKET PARTICIPANTS, UH, COULD GIVE A ENERGY TRADER AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE WHEN IT COMES TO ENERGY TRADING IN ERCOT.
AND SO IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WHEN INFORMATION IS DISSEMINATED PUBLICLY, UH, IT HAS GONE TO ALL MARKET PARTICIPANTS AT THE SAME TIME.
AND, UH, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE ARE BOUND BY.
AND TO THAT NOTE, TO THAT NOTE, THAT EVEN APPLIES EVEN AS, UH, WE ARE A VERTI, UH, VERTICALLY INTEGRATED UTILITY.
UH, THOSE STILL STAY IN PLACE EVEN AMONGST, UH, OUR EMO SIDE, YOU KNOW, UH, ENERGY MARKET OPERATIONS SIDE OF THE HOUSE AND OUR WIRE SIDE OF THE HOUSE.
WE CANNOT HAVE THOSE, THOSE, UH, CONVERSATIONS.
WE CAN'T SHARE THINGS THAT WE CAN'T SHARE WITH THE OPEN MARKET.
SO, UH, I THINK EVERYBODY KNOWS, UH, TRANSMISSION.
THE TRANSMISSION LINES ARE THE SUPER HIGHWAYS OF, UH, ELECTRIC POWER.
UM, UH, AND WHILE A IS A, A TRANSMISSION OWNER, AS I STATED, ERCOT IS THE OPERATOR.
AND THAT'S GONNA BE IMPORTANT AS WE KIND OF TALK, UH, THROUGH THIS AND KIND OF THE PROCESS OF BUILDING TRANSMISSION LINES.
AND SO ANY POWER THAT WE BUY OR MAKE, UM, IS UPLOADED, IF YOU WILL, TO THE GRID.
UH, AND THEN IT IS BOUGHT BACK OR DOWNLOADED, UH, HERE IN AUSTIN.
AND THOSE, UH, TRANSACTIONS ARE GOVERNED BY ERCOT.
UH, NOW LET, LET'S TALK A LITTLE BACKGROUND ABOUT THE PLANNING PROCESS.
UM, THIS IS A, THIS IS A SLIDE PUT TOGETHER BY, BY OUR PLANNING DEPARTMENT.
UM, AND SO WITH THAT, A LIKE OTHER, UM, TRANSMISSION OWNERS, WE HAVE VERY SMART PLANNING DEPARTMENT.
UH, IT'S ALMOST ENTIRELY PHDS.
UM, THEY'RE, UH, YEAR ROUND, UH, THEY'RE LOOKING AT INTERCONNECTS.
THEY'RE LOOKING AT, UH, RUNNING, UH, STATIC AND DYNAMIC LOAD FLOWS, UM, SOMETIMES TAKING DAYS TO, TO, UH, TO SOLVE, UH, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS THEIR COMPUTER MODELS.
AND THEY'RE CHECKING FOR RELIABILITY AND ECONOMICAL SOLUTIONS TO IMPROVE THE GRID.
AND, UH, THESE, UH, THESE, I'LL JUST GIVE A FEW EXAMPLES.
SO OF STARTING ON MY LEFT, GO RIGHT, AND THEN I'LL MOVE DOWN.
SO FROM A RELIABILITY STANDPOINT, THEY'RE DOING, YOU KNOW, DYNAMIC AND, AND REACTIVE STUDIES, UH, FOR RESILIENCY, THINGS LIKE POLES AND TOWERS, THEY'RE LOOKING AS N MINUS ONE CONTINGENCY.
IF YOU KNOW, IF A SINGLE FAILURE HAPPENS, WHAT, YOU KNOW, UH, WHAT WOULD THAT AFFECT? UH, THEY'RE LOOKING AT, UH, LONG LEAD TIME EQUIPMENT.
IF, IF EQUIPMENT'S GONNA TAKE MORE THAN A YEAR TO GET, IT'S CONSIDERED A, A LONG LEAD TIME, UH, EQUIPMENT, AND THEREFORE YOU HAVE TO, TO MAKE, UH, ADDITIONAL PRECAUTIONS OR, UH, PLANS IF YOU WILL, FOR THAT.
UH, OF COURSE, UH, ECONOMICS IS ALWAYS A, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, A KEY KEY POINT AS FAR AS, UH, IMPORT CAPACITY.
UM, AND THEN, UM, THEY'RE CHECKING, YOU KNOW, SHOULD WE, SHOULD WE RECOMMEND UPGRADING A LINE LIKE WE, I MENTIONED THE 69 KV TO 138 KV.
UH, THAT'S ONE THAT, YOU KNOW, IT, IT WOULD MAKE SENSE INTERCONNECTIONS.
UH, WE, AS A TRANSMISSION OWNER, IT IS AN OPEN ACCESS.
AND SO WITH THAT, WE HAVE AN OBLIGATION FOR GENERATORS THROUGH AN ERCOT, UH, PROCESS TO ALLOW THEM TO CONNECT.
BUT ALSO OTHER TSPS, UH, TRANSFER, TRANSFER SERVICE PROVIDERS THAT COULD BE ENCORE, IT COULD BE, UH, LCR AND SO FORTH THAT NEED, THAT WANT TO CONNECT INTO ONE OF OUR, OUR LINES IN ORDER TO FEED ONE OF THEIR CUSTOMERS.
WE ARE REQUIRED TO ALLOW THEM TO, TO INTERCONNECT.
AND SO ALL THESE THINGS ARE CONSTANTLY, UH, BEING STUDIED IN, IN VARIOUS, UH, UH, MODELS.
AND WITH THAT, IT OUTPUTS, UH, A LIST OF PROJECTS, UM, THAT AND, AND THEN ULTIMATELY IT'S RECOMMENDED, UM, BASED ON NEED AND, UM, CONSTRUCTABILITY.
UH, AND THEN ULTIMATELY, UM, YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE PUT FORTH THROUGH OUR, UM, UH, WELL, UH, BEFORE, EVEN BEFORE THE BUDGET PROCESS INTERNALLY OR IN CONJUNCTION WITH IT.
UM, THEY ULTIMATELY ARE SENT TO ERCOT.
AND SO WITH THAT NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.
AND SO I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE, THE ERCOT PROCESS.
UM, IT'S, UH, FORGIVE ME FOR BEING A LITTLE BIT OF AN EYE CHART.
THIS IS ON THE PUBLIC, UH, THE, UM, ERCOT WEBSITE.
BASICALLY, I'LL JUST START FROM THE TOP THERE.
AND SO, ULTIMATELY, THERE'S STUDIES BEING DONE BY ERCOT.
THERE ARE STUDIES BEING DONE BY TRANSMISSION SERVICE PROVIDERS.
SO THAT'S, AGAIN, IS, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD BE A EP, IT'S LCRA, IT'S ENCORE AUSTIN ENERGY, UM, UH, TRANSMISSION, UM, SERVICE PRIORS ARE OWNERS.
AND, UH, AND ERCOT WITH THAT, ALL THOSE PROJECTS GO, AND IT BECOMES, UH, AT THAT POINT IN TIME, IT GOES INTO A, A PROCESS, AND I'LL TALK ABOUT THE TIERS HERE A LITTLE BIT, BUT IT IS A PUBLIC PROCESS WHERE, UH, ULTIMATELY THE RPG, SO THE REGIONAL PLANNING GROUP, UM, ALL THAT INFORMATION IS SENT TO THE MARKET PARTICIPANTS, AGAIN, AT THE SAME
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TIME.AND SO, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT HEARING IT AT DIFFERENT TIMES.
YOU HEAR ABOUT POTENTIAL PROJECTS AND SO FORTH.
UH, ERCOT CLASSIFY THOSE INTO ACTUALLY FOUR TIERS.
I KNOW THERE'S THREE SHOWN HERE.
THE FOURTH TIER IS ACTUALLY WHAT THEY CALL NEUTRAL.
BASICALLY, UH, THE DOLLAR AMOUNTS ARE EVEN, YOU KNOW, UH, I'VE HEARD THAT THEY'RE POSSIBLY GONNA BE UPDATED, BUT SAY UNDER 25 MILLION AND, UH, NO ADDITIONAL, UH, RIGHT OF WAY IS NEEDED.
UM, AND SO THEREFORE, UM, A LOT OF TIMES THEY'LL CONSIDER THOSE NEUTRAL, UH, PROJECTS, AND THAT'S TYPE, SO TIER FOUR WOULD BE LIKE, YOU'RE REPLACING SOMETHING THAT BROKE.
IT'S NOT REALLY ANYTHING THAT NEW, RIGHT? THAT IS, UH, THAT IS CORRECT.
BUT, UH, THAT, THAT WOULD BE A GREAT EXAMPLE.
I MEAN, THERE, THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT KIND OF FALL IN THAT CATEGORY.
THE MAIN THING IS THAT DO, UM, IS IT UNDER 25 MILLION AND DO YOU NEED, UM, PERMISSION AND C I'LL COVER THAT, RIGHT? YEAH, CN.
SO CERTIFICATE OF CONVENIENCE AND NECESSITY, UH, THAT'S THE OTHER.
SO THERE'S A DOLLAR THAT THEY THRESHOLD THAT THEY LOOK AT FOR DE DETERMINING WHAT TIER IT IS, ONE BEING THE HIGHEST, FOUR BEING THE LOWEST.
BUT ALSO, DO YOU NEED TO ACQUIRE RIGHT AWAY? AND IF YOU DO, IF YOU'RE IN AUSTIN, CITY LIMITS, NOT IN CER AUSTIN ENERGY SERVICE AREA, BUT AUSTIN CITY LIMITS, WE GET PERMISSION BY OUR CITY COUNCIL.
IF YOU'RE OUTSIDE OF CITY LIMITS, THEN, UM, FOR, FOR AUSTIN ENERGY, UH, AND MOST OTHER, UM, PARTICIPANTS IN ERCOT, THEY HAVE TO GO THROUGH A-A-C-C-N PROCESS, UH, THROUGH THE PUBLIC UTILITY COMMISSION.
AND, UH, IT'S A VERY LENGTHY PROCESS.
YOU HAVE TO SHOW MULTIPLE, UH, DIVERSE ROUTES.
UH, YOU HAVE TO DO ENVIRONMENTAL STUDIES.
THERE'S PUBLIC MEETINGS, UM, YOU KNOW, AND SO FORTH.
AND THEN ULTIMATELY, UM, THAT IS ALL, UH, GIVEN UP TO THE PUBLIC UTILITY COMMISSION TO MAKE A DECISION ON WHAT THE ROUTE WILL BE.
SO EVEN IF YOU THINK IT'S GOING TO GO, YOU KNOW, THIS WAY AND, AND GO AROUND THE CORNER AND GO HERE, THEY COULD CHOOSE A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ROUTE.
AND SO THAT HAS TO, UH, UH, WHEN THAT IS REQUIRED, YOU CAN'T EVEN GET TO THE DESIGN PHASE OR ORDERING EQUIPMENT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT UNTIL THAT PROCESS HAD BEEN APPROVED.
AND SO THAT'S, THAT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE.
BUT, BUT BASICALLY YOU SEE THE DIFFERENT TIERS AND IT'S DIFFERENT LEVELS, WHETHER IT'S MORE THE PEERS OR IN SOME CASES, UM, I THINK THE DOLLAR AMOUNT IS ABOUT, UH, IS ABOUT TO GO UP, BUT A HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS.
AND IF YOU NEED A CCN, UH, THEN YOU EVEN HAVE TO GET APPROVAL.
UM, OR, OR SHOULD I SAY ENDORSEMENT IS MAYBE A BETTER WAY TO PUT IT, ENDORSEMENT BY THE ERCOT BOARD OF DIRECTORS.
THE TIER FOUR YOU CAN KIND OF DO ON YOUR OWN IS THAT, UH, THE TIER FOUR YOU CAN DO ON YOUR OWN INITIATIVE, THEN YOU STILL HAVE, YOU STILL HAVE TO LET THEM KNOW ABOUT IT, BUT IT'S, IT'S, UH, UH, CONSIDERED NEUTRAL PRO PROJECT.
WE, UH, NORMALLY YOU STILL SUBMIT IT AND THEY AGREE WITH, THEY LOOK AT IT AND SAY, OH, YEAH, I AGREED THIS IS A NEUTRAL, AND SO DON'T, YOU KNOW, UH, IT DOESN'T NEED TO GO THROUGH ONE, TWO, OR THREE REVIEWS.
UM, AND SO, UH, ULTIMATELY WITH THAT, THE, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, JUST, UH, KIND OF TOUCHED ON SOME OF THESE, UH, WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE TIMEFRAME ON THE NEXT SLIDE, BUT THESE ARE IMPORTANT BECAUSE, UH, WHEN WE, YOU KNOW, IF WE HAVE A LIST OF PROJECTS THAT WE RECOMMEND, AND EVEN IF WE STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT THAT'S WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN, ERCOT IS LOOKING AT IT THROUGH THESE PROCESSES TO FIND THE BEST OVERALL SOLUTION FOR ANY KNOWN ISSUE.
SO IT'S A CONSTRAINT MAYBE, AND MAYBE OUR, OUR, UH, SOLUTION FOR CONSTRAINT IS UPGRADE A LINE AND IT'S GONNA BE $40 MILLION, BUT THERE'S ANOTHER ALTERNATIVE THROUGH ANOTHER UTILITY OR SOMEWHERE ELSE, UH, IN THE SYSTEM THAT COULD, UM, CHANGE THE FLOWS IN SUCH A WAY THAT IT REDUCES IT JUST AS MUCH, AND IT'S $20 MILLION.
THEN WITH THAT IS ERCOT, UH, MAY CHOOSE TO, TO NOT RECOMMEND OUR PROJECT AND WOULD RECOMMEND ANOTHER ONE.
AND SO, UH, BECAUSE OF THAT IS, YOU KNOW, WE ARE PART OF A SYSTEM.
WE ARE, YOU KNOW, WE ARE PART OF ERCOT AND, UM, THAT'S IMPORTANT TO GET THAT, YOU KNOW, ENDORSEMENT FOR THE PROJECTS.
BUT ALSO, IF YOU MOVE ON TO THE NEXT STEP AND YOU, AND SAY, YOU NEED A CCN, THAT'S ONE OF THE FIRST QUESTIONS THAT THE PUBLIC UTILITY COMMISSION IS GONNA ASK.
DID YOU KNOW, DID YOU GET ENDORSEMENT OF RPG, UH, AT ERCOT? UM, IF YOU DID, GREAT.
IF YOU DIDN'T, THERE'S PROBABLY BE A LOT OF QUESTIONS THAT YOU KNOW AS TO, UH, WHETHER, YOU KNOW, YOU SHOULD BE PURSUING IT AND GET PERMISSION TO CONDEMN PROPERTY.
UM, AND THEN ULTIMATELY, UM, THE OTHER PIECE THAT'S IMPORTANT IS, UH, TCOS, I'VE, I'VE HEARD IT WAS MENTIONED HERE TONIGHT, TRANSMISSION COST OF SERVICE.
THAT IS, UM, THE, UH, SOCIAL SOCIALIZE, ALL THE, THE COST OF, UH, REASONABLE COST OF TRANSMISSION IN ERCOT AND IS DISTRIBUTED AMONGST ALL, UH, ERCOT RATE PAYERS.
UH, WITH THAT IS, UM, YOU KNOW, IF, IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE ENDORSEMENT, AND WE DECIDED TO JUST GO BUILD A LINE, UM, YOU KNOW, SAYING THAT WE DIDN'T EVEN, YOU KNOW, MAYBE WE DIDN'T EVEN NEED, UH, CCNS, IF WE TURN AROUND AND TRY TO FILE, UH, WHEN WE TRY TO DO A, UH, TCOS, UH, FULL FILING OR SO FORTH, IT'S POSSIBLE THAT IT COULD BE DENIED.
AND IF IT WAS DENIED, THEN, THEN ULTIMATELY AUSTIN ENERGY, UH, CUSTOMERS WOULD BE PICKING UP THE, THE COST OF THAT OPPOSED TO BEING SOCIALIZED AMONGST ERCOT.
SO IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO FOLLOW THIS PROCESS, AND AGAIN, AS YOU CAN'T GO IT ALONE.
AND, AND SO FROM A STANDPOINT IS, UH, UH, WE MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS.
UM, WE TAKE THE ERCOT MODELS, UM, AND WE MODEL OUR STUFF AND THEN, AND THEN, UH, MAKE OUR CASE FOR THE BEST OVERALL SOLUTIONS, UM, TO, TO BENEFIT, UM, OUR CUSTOMERS HERE IN AUSTIN, UM, BUT ALSO THE GRID.
THIS, UH, FOR THIS ONE, I JUST WANTED TO JUST BRIEFLY TOUCH ON IT.
WE'RE NOT GONNA GO THROUGH ALL OF THESE.
THIS IS, AGAIN, ON THE ER, UH, FROM ERCOT WEBSITE.
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UM, BASICALLY, AS YOU KNOW, WE TALKED ABOUT THAT, YOU KNOW, THE TRANSMISSION PLANNING PROCESS, THE VARIOUS REVIEWS, YOU TALK ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT, IF, IF A CCN IS NEEDED, UH, WHICH, YOU KNOW, UH, UH, IF IT'S IN CITY, IN AUSTIN CITY LIMITS, IT, IT, UH, UH, MAY NOT APPLY IF IT'S SOLELY IN CITY LIMITS, BUT YOU GOTTA DO THE ROUTING STUDIES, THE PUBLIC, UH, MEETINGS.UH, YOU'RE, AND THEN ULTIMATELY FILE AN APPLICATION.
IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S, UH, REVIEWED.
UM, THERE COULD BE INTERVENERS AND SO FORTH.
UM, BUT BY STEPPING THROUGH THIS PROCESS, AND ULTIMATELY YOU GET TO THE POINT WHERE YOU GET A, UM, YOU KNOW, HEY, MOVE, MOVE FORWARD.
YOU GET PERMISSION TO GO ACQUIRE THE, THE, THE, UH, RIGHT OF WAY ACQUISITION.
YOU GOT PERMITTING, YOU ARE THE EQUIPMENT, UM, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE YOU DID THE DESIGN.
UM, AND THEN WE'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT OUTAGES, AND THEN YOU CONSTRUCT IT.
BUT FROM ERCOT IS SAYING THREE AND A HALF TO FIVE, UH, THREE AND A HALF TO SIX YEARS, UH, TO GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS.
WELL, IT COULD, IF CERTAIN STEPS ARE NOT NEEDED, IT COULD BY ALL MEANS GO FASTER.
WE ARE ALSO FINDING THAT, UM, IT COULD EVEN EXCEED THE SIX YEARS.
AND WHEN I TALK ABOUT THAT IS YOU GET READY TO GO PHYSICALLY MAKE, GO BUILD THAT LINE, AND THEN YOU CAN'T GET THE OUTAGE THAT YOU NEED.
IN PARTICULAR, IT'S REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT WHEN WE DO THINGS LIKE RE CONDUCTORS WHERE WE'RE TAKING AN EXISTING LINE, UM, AND WE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE WE NEED A LITTLE BIT MORE, UH, RIGHT OF WAY.
MAYBE WE DON'T, BUT WE GO TO A MORE ADVANCED CONDUCTOR OR A LARGER CONDUCTOR SO WE CAN PUSH MORE POWER THROUGH.
UH, WHEN THAT HAPPENS, UM, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO TAKE THAT LINE DOWN FOR ANY, UM, EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME, UH, IF YOU DON'T HAVE SUFFICIENT GENERATION HERE IN AUSTIN.
AND SO, UH, IT'S KIND OF THAT, YOU KNOW, AND I'LL, I'LL TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT.
IT'S THE CHICKEN, BUT BEFORE THE EGG, IT'S LIKE, IN ORDER TO GET MORE TRANSMISSION, WE, WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO GET THE OUTAGES IN ORDER TO GET THE OUTAGES.
WE, YOU KNOW, THERE, UH, TO GET AN, UH, A LONG ENOUGH WINDOW TO DO IT.
WE NEED, UM, SUFFICIENT GENERATION IN AUSTIN.
SO ADDITIONALLY WITH THAT IS IT CAN ALSO FORCE YOU TO BREAK UP PROJECTS.
AND BECAUSE THERE'S ERCOT MORATORIUMS IN THE SUMMER AND SO FORTH, AND SO A PROJECT THAT YOU THOUGHT YOU COULD BUILD IN ONE YEAR, UM, EVEN WITH ADDITIONAL CREWS AND RESOURCES SO FORTH, YOU MAY HAVE TO SPREAD THAT OUT AND STAGE IT ACROSS MULTIPLE YEARS.
AND SO, AGAIN, AS YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES SIX YEARS, IT COULD BE EIGHT YEARS, UM, EIGHT YEARS IS PROBABLY MORE ON THE EXTREME END OF THE SCALE.
BUT THE POINT IS, IS IT TAKES A LONG TIME TO, UH, TO, TO BUILD.
SO WHERE IS THIS NEW 7 65 KV? IS IT STILL IN THE PLANNING, OR ARE THERE MULTIPLE PHASES OF IT WHERE SUMS ALREADY IN THE PLANNING AND SOME IS ALREADY BEING LET OUT FOR CONTRACTS OR WHAT? SO, SO WITH THAT IS, UM, I'M, I'M NOT GONNA CLAIM TO BE AN EXPERT ON THE 7 65.
AE IS NOT, NOT BUILDING THAT, BUT I, I'LL SHARE WHAT I, WHAT I UNDERSTAND.
UH, SO PART OF IT IS, I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S, UM, REALLY THREE PHASES.
THERE'S A PERMIAN, UM, AND BASICALLY THEY CALL IT A STEP OR STRATEGIC TRANSMISSION EXPANSION PLAN.
THERE'S THE PERMIAN, UM, UH, PORTION.
THERE'S THE WESTERN AND THE EASTERN, THE PART THAT, THAT WE BELIEVE, UH, WILL, UH, UH, GO, UH, NEAR AUSTIN TO BE DETERMINED.
AGAIN, WE TALKED ABOUT CCNS AND ROUTING STUDIES, AND YOU DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE IT'S GONNA GO.
IT'S JUST A LINE ON A, ON A PAGE RIGHT NOW, UH, IS ACTUALLY THE EASTERN, UH, PORTION OF THE STEP, UH, WITH THAT IS, UM, THE, UH, CCN UH, WAS FILED, NOT, NOT APPROVED, BUT FILED.
AND WE STILL GOTTA GO THROUGH THE PROCESS AND, UH, INTERVENERS AND SO FORTH AND, AND ROUTING ALL AND, AND SO FORTH.
BUT IT WAS, UH, END OF LAST YEAR.
AND WITH THAT IS THE PLAN AND SERVICE IS SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 2030 AND 2032, UH, TO, TO, TO DO THAT.
I, WITH, YOU KNOW, THINGS THAT WE'VE SEEN.
AND, AND GRANTED, IF YOU'RE DOING A COLD BILL AND YOU DON'T NEED OUTAGES, YOU MAY NOT HAVE SOME OF THOSE EXTENDED WINDOWS, BUT A LOT OF THAT HAS TO BE IN PLACE OR WELL, UH, UNDERWAY BEFORE YOU CAN CONSIDER TAPPING INTO A LINE, BECAUSE IT MAY NOT BE THERE WHEN THEY THOUGHT IT WAS GONNA BE THERE AND, AND SO FORTH.
BUT OF, OF ALL THE PHASES, THE ONE THAT APPEARS TO BE LIKE I'VE SEEN, UM, UH, PUBLICLY, ALL THIS, ALL THIS INFORMATION, UM, OR SOME OF IT, YOU KNOW, HAS BEEN OUT THERE PUBLICLY, BUT THE, UH, UH, DIVERSE PATHS AND SO FORTH, I'VE SEEN IT FOR THE, UH, PERMIAN, UM, STRETCH.
I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING PERSONALLY FOR THE EASTERN STRETCH.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, WHILE IT APPEARS TO GO BY AUSTIN, WILL IT GO ON THE WEST SIDE? WILL IT GO ON THE EAST SIDE? I, I, I HAVE NO IDEA AT THIS POINT IN TIME.
AND SO, WITH ALL OF THE, AGAIN, IT'S VERY SMART PEOPLE, UH, IN THE PLAN DEPARTMENT.
UM, THIS, THIS SLIDE I, I TOOK FROM THE, UH, THE TEAM, IT SUMS UP ALL THESE STUDIES AND STUDIES ARE PAGES AND PAGES OF, OF STUFF AND, YOU KNOW, SHOWING, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, ELECTRICAL BUSES AND WHAT HAPPENS TO THIS, THAT, OR SO FORTH.
BUT ULTIMATELY, UM, YOU KNOW, PICTURE'S WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE PURPOSE OF THIS.
SO BASICALLY YOU SEE AUSTIN, UM, YOU KNOW, SUMMER PEAK, YOU KNOW, IS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THREE, YOU KNOW, 3000 MEGAWATTS.
UM, WITH THAT LOCAL GENERATION, WE HAVE ABOUT 800.
AND SO THE REASON THAT'S IMPORTANT IS ANYTHING THAT YOU DON'T HAVE, YOU HAVE TO IMPORT.
AND, YOU KNOW, 99% OF THE TIME, THERE'S PLENTY OF POWER ON THE GRID.
UM, BUT, BUT WHEN IT IS, UH, YOU KNOW, A HUNDRED AND SOMETHING DEGREES OUTSIDE OR THERE ARE CERTAIN OUTAGES FOR CONSTRAINTS AND STUFF LIKE THAT, THAT IS WHERE, UH, YOU, YOU MAY RUN IT,
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UH, TO A DEFICIT.AND THAT'S WHERE, YOU KNOW, YOU RUN INTO CONSTRAINTS, PRICES GO HIGH, UH, ET CETERA.
BUT THIS IS, THIS IS, UH, AND I'LL TOUCH BASE, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST ONE MORE TIME, BUT THAT'S, UH, WHAT YOU SEE HERE IS FROM THE, UH, EAST AND FROM THE SOUTH IS REALLY WHERE MOST OF THE POWER FLOWS INTO AUSTIN.
AND YOU CAN KIND OF SEE WHAT THAT, THAT LOOKS LIKE.
UM, UH, BUT THEN KEEP IN MIND IS WE ARE PART OF A LARGER GRID, AND SO POWER FLOWS ACROSS OUR GRID, AND, AND IT INCLUDES GOING, YOU KNOW, AND, AND THIS IS A, UM, A STATIC POINT IN TIME.
THERE'S FLOWS ARE CONSTANTLY CHANGING.
SO, UH, MIND YOU, THERE'S, THERE'S ABOUT A MILLION PERMUTATIONS OF THIS IN, IN THE, IN THE REAL WORLD AT ANY GIVEN TIME, HIGH LOAD MODELS, LOW LOAD MODELS AND SO FORTH.
BUT THIS WAS A SNAPSHOT, JUST KIND OF PEAK WHAT WE'RE SEEING.
BUT BASICALLY, YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, SOME POWER GOING THE NORTH.
THERE'S NOT REALLY, UM, ANY, ANY GOOD SOURCES ON THE, UH, UH, WEST SIDE, WE HOPE WITH IN TIME.
IT'S NOT THE 3 45, WHICH ARE THE MAJOR, UM, HIGHWAYS, UH, CURRENTLY IN TEXAS.
THE 7 65 WILL BECOME THE NEW SUPER HIGHWAY, AND ULTIMATELY YOU GOTTA STEP IT DOWN TO THE THREE 40 FIVES TO INJECT IT INTO, UH, THE ONE 30 EIGHTS AND, AND ON DOWN TO THE REST OF THE GRID.
BUT, UM, BASICALLY THE, YOU KNOW, FROM A, FROM A STANDPOINT IS, I, I, I DO WANT TO HIGHLIGHT THOUGH, UM, 'CAUSE WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT ON THE, I BELIEVE THE NEXT SLIDE IS, UM, WE HAVE ACTIVE PROJECTS, SIGNIFICANTLY ACTIVE PROJECTS TO REDUCE CONGESTION ON THESE IMPORT PATHS THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
AND, UH, INCREASE IMPORT CAPACITY, UM, SIGNIFICANTLY.
UM, IT DEPENDS ON THE MODEL, SO IT'S NOT EVEN, IT'S NOT A HARD NUMBER, BUT THE POINT IS, IS IT IT ABSOLUTELY WILL, UH, UH, MOVE THE NEEDLE, ASSUMING WE CAN GET THE OUTAGES TO, TO EVEN DO THE UPGRADES THAT WE NEED.
SO CAN YOU STAY ON THIS FOR A SECOND? OH, SURE.
SO, UM, DO YOU ALREADY HAVE IN PLACE DYNAMIC LINE RATING, OR IS THAT NOT GOING TO HELP? BECAUSE ARE YOU MOSTLY THERMALLY OR STABILITY LIMITED ON THE IMPORT CAPACITY? SO WE, SO WE HAVE, UH, FROM A STANDPOINT, IT'S HISTORICALLY WE'VE DONE JUST BASICALLY THE, THE, THE MANUFACTURER'S RATINGS AND SO FORTH.
WE HAVE, UH, AMBIENT ADJUSTMENT RATINGS THAT WE'VE, UH, ALREADY APPLIED, UH, ON ONE LINE.
THE DYNAMIC ONES IS, UM, THERE'S A LOT TO THAT STATEMENT AND THERE'S DIFFERENT APPROACHES AND, AND SO FORTH.
UM, AMBIENT IS, IS THE ONE THAT YOU'LL SEE MORE OF.
SOME PEOPLE REFER TO THOSE AS DYNAMIC, BUT IT'S AMBIENT IN THE SENSE OF TEMPERATURE AND, YOU KNOW, WIND AND SO FORTH.
UM, BUT WE ARE WORKING TO, UH, ROLL THAT OUT TO MORE LINES TO, UH, SOME SHOW, UM, UH, SOME PROMISE, OTHERS MAYBE NOT AS MUCH, BUT THE, BUT THE POINT IS, IS FOCUSING ON MORE OF OUR CONSTRAINED AREAS, UM, AGAIN, IS TRYING TO GET AS, AS MUCH POWER THROUGH AS POSSIBLE.
AND THEN ANOTHER THING I WAS LOOKING AT GOOD STATUS IO AND I THINK LCRA HAS NEAR MARSHALL FORD A BATTERY SYSTEM UP THERE.
DO YOU THINK THAT YOU'LL BE LOOKING AT BATTERIES THROUGHOUT THE SERVICE TERRITORY OR WHERE THE, THE NODES ARE THAT HAVE HIGHER PRICES, OR CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT AS A NON WIRES ALTERNATIVE? TELL YOU WHAT, UH, CAN WE COVER THAT ON THE LAST SLIDE? OKAY.
THERE'S, THERE'S SOME ON THE LAST SLIDE.
UM, OKAY, SO PART OF IT IS, AGAIN, IS WE DON'T PUBLICLY TALK ABOUT TRANSMISSION LINE.
THAT'S FOR ALL THE REASONS THAT I'VE ALREADY DISCUSSED HERE.
THAT BEING SAID IS, I WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT AUSTIN ENERGY IS ON IT.
UM, FROM A STANDPOINT IS WE HAVE ALREADY APPROVED, THIS IS THROUGH 20 20 30 ON, YOU KNOW, WE'RE DOING THE NEXT BUDGET CYCLE RIGHT NOW, WHICH WE'LL HAVE, YOU KNOW, UH, UH, GOING OUT TO 2031 ADDITIONAL PROJECTS, WE HAVE $500 MILLION THAT ARE ALREADY APPROVED IN OUR BUDGET FOR TRANSMISSION, UH, IMPROVEMENTS.
IT'S ABOUT A HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR, UH, 60% OR $300 MILLION THAT WILL DIRECTLY INCREASE IN PORT CAPACITY.
NOW, WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO, TO BUILD THOSE PROJECTS.
BUT THE POINT IS, IS WHILE WE DON'T TALK ABOUT IT A LOT, THERE'S A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF WORK GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENES.
UH, AND SO I'M NOT GONNA, YOU KNOW, IDENTIFY INDIVIDUAL PROJECTS AND, AND, YOU KNOW, AND SO FORTH, BUT THEY ARE RE CONDUCTORS.
THOSE ARE TOUGH, ESPECIALLY WITH THE OUTAGES THAT I REFERRED TO, UH, TO, TO GET 'EM, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE MAY 15TH TO SEPTEMBER 15TH, UH, YOU CANNOT GET ANY OUTAGE.
UM, AND WE'RE STARTING TO SEE THAT ALMOST BLEED OVER, NOT FORMALLY OR OFFICIALLY, BUT, UM, INTO THE WINTER MONTHS WHERE ERCOT IS GETTING A LITTLE NERVOUS AND SAYING, YEAH, CAN YOU SHORTEN THAT OUTAGE OR BRING IT ON FASTER OR SO FORTH.
AND SO, UH, IT'S, IT'S JUST GETTING CHALLENGING.
UM, IT USED TO BE WE COULD PUT IT IN AN OUTAGE REQUEST, UM, SIX MONTHS IN ADVANCE, NO ISSUE.
UH, WE'RE NOW PUTTING IN, IN THREE PLUS YEARS OUT TO TRY TO GET 'EM, UH, AND YOU BETTER BE READY WHEN THAT TIME COMES.
YOU BETTER HAVE ALL THE MATERIAL HERE AND, AND EVERYTHING LIKE THAT.
AND SO IT IS, IT IS, UH, IT'S BEEN A VERY INTERESTING, UM, IN THE LAST FEW YEARS, BUT RE CONDUCTORS ARE, ARE A TOUGHER ONE FOR THE REASON I STATED, UH, SOME NEW IMPORT, UH, UH, PATHS, UH, CREATING SOME NEW ONES.
UH, WE'RE WORKING ON THOSE THAT IS INCLUDED IN THIS PLAN, UH, UPGRADING LINE CAPACITY.
SO, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, ONE EXAMPLE IS THE 69 TO 1 38 THAT I SPOKE TO.
UM, ALSO JUST LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, 1 38 TO 3 45, YOU KNOW, WHERE, WHERE IT CAN MAKE SENSE.
UM, AND WE HAVE SEVERAL PROJECTS IN THE QUARTERS THAT I'VE KIND OF POINTED OUT THAT WILL DO JUST THAT, UH, NEW SWITCH YARDS, UM, YOU KNOW, ADDING ADDITIONAL AUTO TRANSFORMERS.
[01:50:01]
POTENTIAL CONGESTION POINT IS WHEN YOU'RE STEPPING FROM ONE VOLTAGE TO OTHER, WHETHER IT'S 7 65 1 DAY TO 3 45 THAT GOES THROUGH A TRANSFORMER, AND THERE ARE, UM, CONSTRAINTS OF HOW MUCH POWER YOU CAN PUSH THROUGH A TRANSFORMER.SAME THING WHEN YOU STEP DOWN TO 1 38, SAME THING WHEN YOU STEP DOWN TO 69.
AND SO, UH, THAT, THOSE ALL PLAY INTO IT, BUT THOSE ARE ALL PART OF THE STUDIES AND, UH, EVERY, UH, LIMITING ELEMENT IS, IS, IS CONSIDERED.
AND, AND, UM, YOU KNOW, AND, AND, AND IF IT'S SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WE WILL, UH, AND WE HAVE SEVERAL OF THOSE IN THE, IN THE PLAN THAT, THAT YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU HERE, SO FORTH THAT'S ALREADY APPROVED, THAT INCLUDES, UH, ADDRESSING AUTO, UM, UH, CONGESTION, MAYBE NOT TODAY, BUT IN THE COMING YEARS.
SO LET ME JUST ASK A QUESTION.
SO THIS IS 500 MILLION FROM CAPEX FROM AE, BUT IN ESSENCE, DOESN'T AE GET A 96% DISCOUNT ON THIS, BECAUSE IF AE IS 4% OF ERCOT LOAD, YOU'RE ONLY PAYING 4% OF THE TRANSMISSION COSTS.
AND SINCE THE COST ARE SOCIALIZED ACROSS THE WHOLE CUSTOMER BASE OF ERCOT, IT'S, THIS IS NOT COMING OUT OF AUSTIN ENERGY'S CUSTOMERS POCKETS, RIGHT? SO I'M AN ENGINEER, I'M NOT A, I'M NOT A, I'M NOT THE FINANCE, THE FINANCIAL GUYS, AND I THINK THAT, UH, BUT, BUT, BUT TO YOUR POINT IS, IS WHAT I CAN SAY IS WE DO GET TCOS REIMBURSEMENT AS LONG AS WE'RE BUILDING A, YOU KNOW, NOT A PROJECT TO NOWHERE, AND WE GO AND WE FOLLOW THE PROCESS, THE ANSWER IS WE HAVE TO BORROW THE MONEY.
UM, AND, BUT WE GET PAID THAT BACK OVER THE LIFE OF THE ASSET.
UH, AS LONG AS IT'S REASONABLE IN NATURE, AND IF YOU GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS, IT, IT'LL BE DEEMED REASONABLE IN NATURE THROUGH ALL THE VERBAL PROCESS.
AND I THINK IT'S A MONEY MAKER TOO, BECAUSE DON'T YOU ABSOLUTELY GET GUARANTEED EIGHT OR 9% RETURN FOR THE PUC.
THERE IS A, THERE IS A GUARANTEED RATE OF RETURN, UH, ON THAT MONEY THAT WE, THAT WE, UH, BORROW.
SO YES, IT IS, IT ACTUALLY, UH, CAN, IS A, UH, REVENUE, UM, IT'S REVENUE POSITIVE IN THE SENSE IS THAT, UH, WE DO MAKE MONEY ON THIS YES.
WHICH ULTIMATELY GOES ON TO ALL OF OUR CUSTOMERS.
DO YOU HAVE A SENSE, AND MAY MAYBE YOU DON'T, OF THAT 500 MILLION, UM, HOW MUCH OF THAT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, TIER FOUR OR TIER THREE PROJECTS, WHICH WOULDN'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE WHOLE ERCOT PUC? DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA OF THE PERCENT, YOU KNOW, IS THAT I I, I, I DON'T HAVE A, I DON'T HAVE A, AT THIS, AT THIS MOMENT, I DON'T HAVE THAT EXACT, UH, PERSON, BUT I, BUT I, BUT I WILL SAY IS WITH THAT IS WE ARE, WE ARE LOOKING AT GOING, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, IS, UM, UH, WE ARE USING THINGS LIKE, UM, I, I KNOW WE RECENTLY COMPETED, UH, COMPLETED A LINE WITH THE COMPOSITE CORE CONDUCTORS, UM, TRYING TO MINIMIZE THE AMOUNT OF, UM, UH, RIGHT OF WAY THAT WE NEEDED TO, TO ACQUIRE, AS WELL AS MINIMIZING STRUCTURE.
SO WE WERE ABLE TO BUILD IT FASTER.
SO THAT IS SOME, A TOOL IN OUR ARSENAL THAT WE'VE ALREADY USED AND WILL USE.
UH, SOMETIMES IT'S, UH, WE DON'T GET THAT LUCKY THOUGH IN THE SENSE OF, UM, ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE GOING TO HIGHER VOLTAGE, YOU JUST NEED PHYSICALLY MORE, MORE ROOM.
AND, UM, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE, UH, SOME LINES THAT ARE, THAT ARE JUST HERE IN AUSTIN.
UM, A LOT OF THOSE ARE, LIKE I SAID, THE 69 KV AND SO FORTH THROUGH THE CENTRAL CORRIDORS.
UH, WE DO HAVE SOME 1 38, BUT WE HAVE SOME LINES THAT ARE ACTUALLY PARTLY IN AUSTIN AND PARTLY OUTSIDE OF AUSTIN.
AND THEN OF COURSE, WE HAVE LINES THAT ARE JUST OUTSIDE OF AUSTIN REQUIRING THAT.
SO, UH, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION IS I THINK A GOOD PORTION OF 'EM ARE GONNA HAVE TO REQUIRE, UH, ADDITIONAL RIGHT OF WAY, WHETHER THAT'S THROUGH, UM, CITY COUNCIL OR IT IS THROUGH, UM, A CCM PROCESS THROUGH THE PUBLIC UTILITY COMMISSION.
SO WE CAN EXPECT THAT SOME OF THESE PROJECTS WILL GO THROUGH THE RPG AND PUC PROCESS.
UM, SO JUST CHALLENGES THE PROJECT.
UH, I THINK WE'VE KIND OF TOUCHED ON 'EM, BUT I'LL JUST RECAP, UH, PROCESS TIME.
SO TIME TO PLAN, PERMIT DESIGN, UH, PROCURE AND CONSTRUCT, AND KEEP IN MIND THAT DESIGN, PROCURE AND CONSTRUCT UNTIL YOU GET A, UM, PERMISSION TO BUILD.
AND THEY TELL YOU WHERE, ESPECIALLY IF IT'S THROUGH A CCN PROCESS, YOU CAN'T START THAT.
UM, YOU KNOW, THE TRANSMISSION STRUCTURES ARE CUSTOM, UM, AND SO YOU HAVE TO DESIGN 'EM WITH THE ROUTE THAT WAS GIVEN, AND IT MAY BE A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ROUTE THAT THAN ANYBODY FOR SOLVE.
UM, BUT THAT IS, THAT IS PART OF THE PROCESS.
UM, REGULATORY, UH, COMMUNICATION.
THIS, THIS, ALL THIS IS, IS BASICALLY A SENATE BILL 7, 7, 6, THAT, THAT IN, UM, REQUIRED US TO START DOING CCNS OUTSIDE OF, UM, UH, CITY LIMITS.
UH, BUT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT QUITE A BIT.
SUPPLY CHAIN, UH, COMING OUT OF, UH, UH, COVID AND, AND SO FORTH.
UM, DISTRIBUTION RECOVERED REALLY QUICK.
UM, UH, WE HAVE SEEN IMPROVEMENTS ON TRANSMISSION SUBSTATION EQUIPMENT, BUT THE LEAD TIMES ARE STILL UP, UH, COMPARED TO, UH, HISTORICAL NORMS. I'LL, I MEAN, I'LL, UH, NOW TO GET AN AUTO, AN AUTO TRANSFORM AGAINST STEPPING FROM A, UH, UM, LIKE ONE TRANSMISSION VOLTAGE TO ANOTHER, IT'S TAKING ABOUT FOUR, UH, THREE TO FOUR YEARS.
UH, THEY USED TO BE CLOSER TO LIKE TWO YEARS.
AND SO, UH, FROM A STANDPOINT IS LEAD TIMES ARE UP.
UM, I'M SURE PART OF THAT MAY BE, UH, COMPETITION WITH OTHER ENTITIES, UM, NON-UTILITY ENTITIES OR SO FORTH, TRYING TO POWER, YOU KNOW, UH, THE, THE AI REVOLUTION, YOU KNOW, AND SO FORTH AND, AND EVERYBODY'S COMPETING FOR THE SAME RESOURCES AND ENGINEERING STAFF AND, YOU KNOW, AND SO
[01:55:01]
FORTH.UM, I WILL SAY THAT WE HAVE DONE A GOOD JOB GETTING AHEAD OF IT AND RESERVING SLOTS, UH, AND, UM, BASICALLY JUST, UH, GETTING AS MANY SLOTS AS, AS, AS WE POSSIBLY CAN.
AND SO IN THAT SENSE, AS I, I FEEL GOOD ABOUT BEING ABLE TO EXECUTE THE, ON THE 500 MILLION THAT, THAT WE SPOKE ABOUT.
UH, LAST ONE IS, I, I, I JUST GOTTA SAY, BUT OUTAGES BEING DENIED, UH, DUE TO INSUFFICIENT LOCAL GENERATION.
THAT WAS NOT A THING A FEW YEARS AGO.
THAT IS SOMETHING WE'RE SEEING TODAY.
AND AGAIN, AS IT'S A CHICKEN BEFORE EGG IS AN ORDER TO BUILD MORE TRANSMISSION, AND I'M, I'M, YOU KNOW, I'M THE WIRES GUY, YOU KNOW, THE ENGINEERING SERVER.
BUT IN ORDER TO GET THE OUTAGES THAT WE NEED, WE NEED A MORE LOCAL GENERATION TO GET APPROVED, UH, TO DO THE UPGRADES.
AND I, AND I THINK, UH, AND YOU'LL SEE THIS IN THE LAST SLIDE, ALL OF IT IS PART OF THIS, THIS SOLUTION INTO THE FUTURE.
BUT BY UPGRADING THOSE THINGS, WE CAN GET MORE RENEWABLES, UH, MORE CARBON FREE RESOURCES IN TOWN.
UH, AND WITH THAT IS, UH, WE WON'T NEED THE GENERATORS AS MUCH, BUT WE ALMOST NEED, AND I SAY GENERATORS, ANY GENERATION, IT COULD BE SOLAR, WIND, WHATEVER, ANY GENERATION, UM, IN YOUR, YOUR LOAD ZONE IS CRITICAL TO GETTING THOSE OUTAGES.
I THINK IT'S THE LAST ONE, WHICH IS BASICALLY, I JUST WANNA TIE IT BACK TO THE, YOU KNOW, THE, UH, TRANSMISSION IMPORT CAPACITY IS INTEGRATED IN THE RESOURCE GENERATION PLAN.
I DON'T, I DON'T SOMETIMES, UH, I THINK THAT GETS LOST, UH, AND SO FORTH, BUT IT IS AS BIG OF A PART OF IT AS ANYTHING.
UH, WE NEED TO LET LEVERAGE LOCAL SOLUTIONS, AND I'M NOT PICKING ANY PARTICULAR ONE.
WE JUST NEED INCREASED LOCAL GENERATION, AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO COUNT ON DAY AND NIGHT, OTHERWISE WE CAN'T GET THE OUTAGES THAT WE NEED.
UM, WE NEED TO INCORPORATE UTILITY SKILL BATTERIES.
SO TO, TO THE QUESTION THAT WAS ASKED OR SO FORTH, ALL LEVELS.
IT COULD BE UTILITY SKILL, IT COULD BE HOMEOWNER SKILL.
THOSE ARE OPPORTUNITIES WHERE YOU CAN STORE UP POWER AND THEN DISCHARGE IT, UM, TO HELP YOU GET THROUGH THOSE, UH, THOSE TIMES.
UM, AND YOU KNOW, THOSE, THAT, THAT 1% OF TIME I MENTIONED THAT, YOU KNOW, POWER, POWER IS TIGHT.
AND OF COURSE, OF COURSE, WHICH IS THE PURPOSE OF, OF WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT TODAY, IS INCREASED TRANSPORT, UH, IMPORT CAPACITY BY REDUCING CONGESTION.
UM, AND WITH THAT IS, UH, WE GOT A LOT OF, A LOT OF WORK AHEAD OF US, BUT, UH, THE TEAM'S, UM, UH, PREPARED FOR IT, WELL UNDERWAY.
AND, UM, IT'LL BE, IT'LL BE NICE FIVE YEARS FROM NOW WHEN WE GET
SO WITH THAT, I WILL TAKE ANY, ANY QUESTIONS AL YEAH.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR PRESENTATION.
I, I'VE BEEN REALLY TRYING TO RAISE THE PROFILE OF TRANSMISSION AS AN ALTERNATE TO LOCAL GAS GENERATION AND, AND, UH, THIS, THIS GIVES US A LOT TO WORK WITH.
THE, THE, THE MAP THAT YOU SHOWED, WHICH IS SORT OF THE 30,000 FOOT VIEW OF AUSTIN, IS, IS, UH, I KNOW IT'S ONLY A SNAPSHOT OF TIME, BUT IT'S ALSO PRICELESS 'CAUSE IT KIND OF SHOWS THE WHOLE STORY.
AND, UH, WHEN WE REALIZED WE CAN'T CLOSE OUR GAS GENERATION WITHOUT, WITH THE WIRES WE HAVE NOW, WE WOULD BE REALLY SHORT.
SO FOR ME, IT GIVES A REAL PRIORITY TO BUILDING NEW WIRES.
UH, AND I, I SEE HERE, IF YOU ADD ALL THAT UP, WE'RE ABOUT 110 MEGAWATTS SHORT IN THAT PARTICULAR SNAPSHOT.
SO IT SHOWS HOW CLOSE WE ARE TO THE MARGIN.
THERE'S NOT A LOT TO WORK WITH, AS YOU SAY, BUT IF YOU, IF YOU CAN CREATE A NEW IMPORT PATH SOMEWHERE, NOT, NOT A RE CONDUCTOR, BUT A NEW PATH GIVES YOU A WAY TO DO THAT WITHOUT SHUTTING ANYTHING DOWN FOR A WHILE.
DOES THAT, DOES THAT HELP BY BUILDING WHAT I CALL COAL BUILD? YEAH.
AND YOU'RE NOT DOING UPGRADES AND SO FORTH.
UH, YOU CAN, UM, YOU STILL GOTTA GO THROUGH THE ENTIRE PROCESS, JUST THE SAME.
IT'S GONNA BE OUTSIDE OF CITY LIMITS AND LONGER, UH, UH, POSSIBLY.
AND IT COULD BE A LONGER, YOU KNOW, LONGER LINE OR SO FORTH.
BUT, UM, FROM A CONSTRUCTABILITY STANDPOINT, ONCE YOU GET PERMISSION, THOSE CAN MAYBE BE A LITTLE BIT EASIER.
THEY MAY BE LONGER, UH, JUST, UH, BY WHERE THEY'RE AT.
I, I WILL SAY, JUST FROM THE WAY, UH, ERCOT, YOU KNOW, IS SITUATED HERE IN AUSTIN IS AGAIN, IS, UM, YOU KNOW, FROM A STRENGTH OF, OF, UH, IMPORT OPPORTUNITIES, AGAIN, IS VERY STRONG TO THE EAST, TO THE SOUTH.
I THINK THERE'S SOME OPPORTUNITIES MAYBE FROM THE NORTH, THE WEST IS A LITTLE WEAKER, UM, IN THE SENSE THAT MOST OF IT'S 1 38, IT'S NOT 3 45 ANYWHERE NEAR US.
UM, AND, AND FROM A STANDPOINT IS, YOU KNOW, EVEN TYING INTO THAT, THAT'S ANOTHER FACTOR IS JUST BY TYING IN SAYING, OH, WE'VE GOT ANOTHER IMPORT PATH.
AGAIN, THE MODELS ARE VERY TELLING, BECAUSE EVEN IF YOU LOOK AT, AND, AND YOU KNOW, UH, REA YOU KNOW, REASONABLY, YOU LOOK AT IT AND SAY, WELL, WE CAN JUST DRAW A LINE THERE AND, AND CONNECT THAT, AND THAT'LL BE ANOTHER IMPORT PATH.
IT ACTUALLY CAN HAVE THE, UH, AN OPPOSITE EFFECT SOMETIMES THAT ULTIMATELY IS THE POWER'S NOT FLOWING THIS WAY INTO AUSTIN.
IT'S FLOWING MORE ACROSS OUR SYSTEM, COMPOUNDING OTHER ISSUES THAT WE HAVE.
AND SO, UM, YOU KNOW, IF THE, IF THE 7 65, WHICH I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT'S GONNA END UP GOING, IT WILL, UM, IT WILL BE A GAME CHANGER IN, IN, IN, UH, ERCOT IN TEXAS.
UH, TIME WILL TELL HOW, UH, AND I DO THINK WE WILL BENEFIT FROM THAT, WHETHER POWER'S FLOWING AROUND AUSTIN OR, OR, OR WE CAN TAP INTO IT AT ADDITIONAL SOURCES.
UM, BUT, BUT IT'S GONNA TAKE A LITTLE TIME
[02:00:01]
FOR THEM TO, TO GET FURTHER ALONG WITH THAT.UM, IT'S A LOT OF TRANSMISSION.
I MEAN, THE, THE, UH, THE PATH THAT I WAS REFERRING TO ALONE, JUST TO KIND OF PUT DOLLARS TO IT, THE EASTERN PORTION, WHICH WOULD BE WHAT GOES BY AUSTIN, BETWEEN BELL COUNTY AND SAN ANTONIO.
UH, WELL, THIS IS, THIS IS THE ENTIRE, UM, EASTERN PORTION, SO IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT JUST THAT, UM, BUT $9.4 BILLION MM-HMM
SO IT'S A, IT'S A, IT, IT'S A LOT.
I'M TRYING TO SEE IF I HAVE THE ACTUAL NUMBER, UH, FOR, FOR, UM, THAT, THAT ONE PIECE, BUT YES.
UH, IT IS, YEAH, IT'S THE BELL COUNTY DOWN TO H HOWARD.
BUT I, I, I WOULD HOPE THAT YOU GUYS ARE TAKING A REAL SERIOUS LOOK AT THAT AS, AS QUICKLY AS INFORMATION BECOMES AVAILABLE, BECAUSE THAT, THAT COULD POTENTIALLY BREAK OUR CONGESTION BARRIERS THAT ARE HURTING OUR PORTFOLIO.
NOW, KEEP IN MIND IS WE ARE NOT, WE ARE A PARTICIPANT IN THIS.
UH, WE PARTICIPATE, UH, AT THE ERCOT PROVIDING FEEDBACK, UM, AND I ACTUALLY DO HAVE IT HERE SO FORTH.
SO THAT STRETCH OF LINE, THAT, THAT WILL GO NEAR AUSTIN, THAT IS, IS PROPOSED.
I, YOU KNOW, SAY THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, UM, WORKING TO, TO TO BE PLANNED OR SO FORTH, 174 MILES, $1.1 BILLION IS THE ESTIMATE FOR THAT.
WHAT'S THE NAME OF, SAY THAT ONE MORE TIME, BELL.
IT'S CALLED, UH, BELL EAST TO HOWARD.
IT'S, IT'S, UH, YOU CAN GO TO THE ERCOT WEBSITE.
THIS IS NOT ANYTHING, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S PUBLIC INFORMATION, BUT, BUT FOR US TO, TO CLOSE OUR GAS GENERATION, WE'VE GOTTA BRING IN ANOTHER A HUNDRED THOUSAND MEGAWATTS ANYWAY.
AND, AND WITH GROWTH POTENTIALLY EVEN MORE BY 2035.
SO IT SEEMS LIKE WE'VE GOTTA COUNT ON THAT 7 65 TO GET US HERE TO GET THE POWER INTO OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.
'CAUSE WE'RE ALSO COMPETING WITH, AS FAR AS NEIGHBORHOOD POWER, WE'RE COMPETING WITH TESLA AND SAMSUNG.
AND EVERY DATA CENTER THAT WANTS TO BUILD OUTSIDE OF TOWN IS ALSO A BIG DRAIN ON OUR AVAILABLE POWER.
SO THERE'S A LOT OF, THE ONLY THING I COULD SAY IS PLANNING THAT HAS TO GO INTO THAT JUST AS A, AS AN ENGINEER SO FORTH, IS I LIKE TO HAVE MULTIPLE PARALLEL PATHS BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUTURE ALWAYS HOLDS, THINGS CAN GET DELAYED AND SO FORTH.
UM, I THINK JUST COUNTING ON THE 7 65, UM, I THINK IT'S GOING TO CHANGE A LOT OF STUFF.
HOW MUCH? I DON'T KNOW THAT WE KNOW.
I EVEN ASKED, I I ASKED OUR PLANNERS, UH, BEFORE IN PREPARATION FOR THIS.
I SAID, DO WE EVEN HAVE THE MODELS WITH 7 65 IN IT? WE GOT SOME PRELIMINARY STUFF.
WE'RE NOT GONNA GET UNTIL JUNE OR JULY OF THIS YEAR.
THE, THE MODELS, UM, THAT ARE GIVEN TO THE ERCOT PARTICIPANTS, SO IT'S NOT JUST ANYBODY IN THE PUBLIC, BUT, UH, IN JUNE, JULY, WE'RE SUPPOSED TO GET, UM, THOSE IN THE MODELS AND WE'LL SEE WHAT IT DOES TO LOAD FLOW.
SO EVEN MY TEAM CAN'T EVEN TELL ME NECESSARILY HOW MUCH IT'S GOING TO, UM, UH, WHAT OPPORTUNITIES IT MAY PROVIDE AT THIS TIME.
I'LL KNOW, I'LL NO MORE COMING UP.
BUT EVEN THEN, AS IT'S STILL JUST A MODEL THAT CAN, YOU KNOW, CHANGE AND, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT THINGS CAN HAPPEN.
I MEAN, I WILL SAY THERE'S ENVIRONMENTAL FACTORS WITH BUILDING TRANSMISSION AND SO FORTH, AND JUST BECAUSE YOU, YOU PLAN ON IT, YOU TURN AROUND AND HIT A CAR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WHO KNOWS WHAT IT'S GONNA DO FOR THE DURATION OF THE PROJECT.
SO, UM, BECAUSE THE ENVIRONMENTAL, YOU KNOW, IS, IS EQUALLY IMPORTANT TO, TO, TO BUILD THINGS, RIGHT? SO, MM-HMM
WELL, LOOKING AT, OH, GO AHEAD.
AL UH, LOOKING, LOOKING AT THIS, I'M JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, WELL, YOU'VE GOT A HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR FOR FIVE YEARS, YOU'RE DOING A LOT OF GOOD STUFF.
WE DON'T NEED TO KNOW ALL THE DETAILS, BUT WE WANT TO KNOW THAT BY 2050, BY 2035, WE'VE GOT THE WIRES TO, TO CLOSE THE GAS PLANTS.
BUT HOW, HOW CAN, IS THERE A WAY THAT YOU CAN REPORT, SAY, ANNUALLY AS PART OF THE BUDGET PROCESS, UH, UH, SOME KIND OF REPORT LIKE THIS THAT SHOWS BROAD BRUSH WHERE WE STAND, AND WHAT'S PROJECTED YEAR BY YEAR, UH, THAT YOU COULD REPORT ON? HOW WOULD, HOW COULD YOU SHAPE THAT? WE'LL HAVE TO, WE'LL HAVE TO SEE WHAT WE CAN OR CAN, AGAIN, IT'S KIND OF GOING BACK TO THE, YOU KNOW, SPECIFIC PROJECT.
I MEAN, UM, YEAH, WE'LL, WE'LL JUST TAKE THAT.
WE'LL HAVE TO TAKE THAT BACK AND, AND SEE WHAT WE CAN DO.
THE PUSH IS, YEAH, HOW, HOW CAN YOU ADVISE US AND COUNSEL THAT YOU'RE ON TRACK AND THAT A HUNDRED MILLION A YEAR IS ENOUGH? MAYBE IT, IT NEEDS PART, PART OF THAT IS THROUGH THE BUDGET PROCESS WAS WITHOUT GETTING IN SPECIFICS, LIKE PUTTING A MAP ON, UH, UP, YOU KNOW, SHOWING EVERY LITTLE DETAIL ON, HEY, YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE DOING.
BUT I MEAN, PART OF IT IS, UH, WE, WE KNOW WE HAVE BUDGETED PROJECTS.
WE WERE EXPECTED TO, YOU KNOW, TO, TO BUILD, YOU KNOW, FOR THINGS.
THERE ARE SOMETIMES THINGS OUTSIDE OF OUR CONTROL MM-HMM
UM, BUT THAT IS ONE WAY THAT YOU, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE, IF WE'RE MAKING OUR BUDGET, UH, WE ARE, WE ARE MAKING STRIDES IN THE RIGHT, UM, UH, DIRECTION, BECAUSE THAT IS THE PROJECTS WE'RE WORKING ON.
AND AGAIN, IT'S 300 OF THE 500 MILLION OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS IS, IS GOING TO DIRECTLY, UH, IMPROVE, UH, REDUCE CONGESTION AND, AND IMPROVE IMPORT CAPACITY.
I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SEE A PROJECTION OF, OKAY, WHAT DOES THIS LOOK LIKE IN 28 AND 30 AND 35 AS YOUR BEST GUESS, YOU KNOW? ABSOLUTELY.
SO, INTERESTING HEARINGS IN THE
[02:05:01]
TEXAS HOUSE LAST FEW DAYS TALKING ABOUT DATA CENTERS.I DIDN'T GET TO WATCH IT, BUT A NUMBER OF THINGS CAME UP.
MAYBE YOU ALREADY SAW FOUR AND A HALF HOURS, OR FOUR NEARLY FIVE.
ONE WAS A GENTLEMAN TALKING ABOUT HIS NEW 600 MEGAWATT DATA CENTER IN HU.
SO THAT'S RIGHT NEAR, UH, SAMSUNG, WHICH BEGS, YOU KNOW, EVEN MORE BECAUSE THAT ISN'T THAT ON THE PATH OF THAT UPPER RIGHT HAND, WOULDN'T THAT BE, UH, IT'S, IT'S OUTSIDE OF WHAT THE PURPLE THAT YOU THAT YOU SEE THERE, RIGHT? IT'S OUTSIDE.
BUT I MEAN, WOULDN'T THAT ALLOW LESS CAPACITY OF POWER COMING IN? IT'S, IT, I'LL JUST SAY IS AGAIN, IS EVERY, EVERYTHING IS NOT TIED TOGETHER.
SO THERE'S, THERE'S THINGS THAT WILL BYPASS OTHER LINES THAT MAY BE CONNECTED IN THE FUTURE.
AND SO WITHOUT A MODEL, YOU, YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T, YEAH.
YOU, YOU CAN'T SPECULATE NECESSARILY THAT, AND PART OF IT IS, KEEP IN MIND IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE STUDIES ARE ABOUT IS KEEPING THE LIGHTS ON IS, IS RELIABILITY, IS THE NUMBER ONE.
AND THEN ECONOMICS, I'M GONNA SAY IS A VERY, YOU KNOW, CLOSE NUMBER TWO.
UM, BUT FROM A STANDPOINT, IF YOU ARE BRINGING LOADS ON YOU, YOU CANNOT DEGRADE THE GRID.
AND SO BECAUSE OF THAT, THAT STUFF IS BEING LOOKED AT, AND THAT IS ONE OF THE JOBS OF BOTH THE UTILITIES AND ERCOT TO, TO PROTECT THE CITIZENS OF TEXAS.
AND ANOTHER THING WAS BATCH ZERO.
AND I KNOW THAT YOU'D MENTIONED THAT SOMETIME IN THE PAST, AND THAT WAS A NEW PROCESS.
AND SO WHAT'S YOUR VIEW OF THAT? BECAUSE YOU'RE PARTICIPATING? I THINK YOU HAVE TO GET THAT GOING BY JUNE.
SO WHAT I, SO FIRST OFF IS ER, ERCOT DID REACH OUT TO US TO GET OUR TAKE ON IT.
I I WILL JUST SAY WE ARE SUPPORTIVE OF IT.
UM, IT IS, UM, IT IS SOMETHING THAT YOU SEE IN OTHER ISOS LIKE ERCOT AND SO FORTH.
THEY CALL 'EM CLUSTER STUDIES, BUT THEY'RE ESSENTIALLY VERY SIMILAR.
UM, MY UNDERSTANDING WITH BATCH ZERO, NUMBER 1 75 MEGS OR MORE, WHICH IS NOT LIKE EVERY CUSTOMER THAT YOU DON'T, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT AN EVERYDAY OCCURRENCE THAT YOU, YOU HAVE SOMEONE WALK IN THE DOOR AND SAY, I WANT 75 MEGS OR MORE.
THE OTHER THING IS TOO, IS THE, UH, MY, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE, YOU HAVE TO SUBMIT FOR THE BATCH ZERO.
THIS IS ALL SUBJECT TO CHANGE, BUT JULY THE 15TH, UM, THE RESULTS, UM, AND BY THAT, BY THE WAY, YOU HAVE TO, THERE'S A BUNCH OF, UH, YOU HAVE TO HAVE FINANCIAL, UH, SIGNIFICANT FINANCIAL, UM, COMMITMENT.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE ALL YOUR TECHNICAL MODELS, UM, YOUR, YOU KNOW, PLANS, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, ET CETERA.
YOU HAVE TO TALK ABOUT, ARE YOU PLANNING ON BUILDING ANYWHERE ELSE? IS THIS ONE OF TWO? AND YOU'RE NOT SURE WHERE YOU'RE GONNA GO ALL THAT.
UH, BASICALLY JULY THE 15TH, I UNDERSTAND JANUARY.
AGAIN, THIS IS ON THE, ON THE, UH, ERCOT WEBSITE, JANUARY 29TH.
THEY WOULD HOPE TO, NEXT YEAR WOULD COMPLETE THE FIRST BATCH STUDY.
THEY WOULD THEN TURN AROUND BY MARCH 1ST, UM, HAVE EVERYBODY, UH, SIGN INTERCONNECTION AGREEMENTS WHO ARE MOVING ON.
AND THEN WITH THAT IS JUNE 1ST OF NEXT YEAR, WOULD, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, BY THEN WOULD UPDATE THE, THE, THE FIRST STUDY.
AND SO THE BATCH IS SOMETHING NEW IN ERCOT, UM, EVOLVING.
AND EVEN THAT'S WHY THEY'RE CALLING IT BATCH ZEROS.
I THINK THEY'RE, THEY WANT TO TEST THE WATERS AND MAKE SURE IT'S DONE RIGHT.
IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO REVIEW THE ERCOT PRESENTATIONS FOR THE ROSS MEETING TOMORROW? I HAVE 'EM RIGHT HERE.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND ANY OF IT, BUT I HAVE A VOTE.
[12. Presentation and discussion on the Benefits of Rate Review by John Coffman, consumer advocate. (Sponsors: Braden, Reed, White)]
HAVE A DISCUSSION, ITEM 12, PRESENTATION AND DISCUSSION ON THE BENEFITS OF RATE REVIEW BY JOHN KAUFMAN.UM, SO I HAVE A, I, I HAVE, UH, JUST A SUM PAGES OF NOTES IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT THOSE.
UH, BUT I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO KIND OF ELABORATE ON THE DISCUSSIONS WE'VE HAD, UH, AT PREVIOUS MEETINGS.
AND I HAVE SOME, HAD SOME OF THE SPEAKERS AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS MEETING TALKING ABOUT A, AN ELECTRIC RATE REVIEW FOR THE CITY OF AUSTIN.
UH, MY EXPERIENCE IN AUSTIN IS, UH, BEING SELECTED AS THE INDEPENDENT CONSUMER ADVOCATE, BOTH FOR THE, UH, 2016 2017 RATE REVIEW, BUT ALSO THE, THE 2022 AUSTIN ENERGY RATE REVIEW.
AND, UH, THE, THE PROCESS WAS, UM, I, I THINK A GOOD ONE.
AND IT WAS A PRETTY ROBUST, UH, PROCESS, AS YOU COULD SEE IS, UM, LET'S SEE.
COULD, UM, UH, COULD MY, MY HANDOUT BE PUT ON THE SCREEN, OR, OR, OR COULD I SHARE MY SCREEN FOR
[02:10:01]
THAT? YOU MAY SHARE YOUR SCREEN, AND I ALSO EMAILED IT TO ALL THE EUC COMMISSIONERS.I WILL ATTEMPT TO SHARE MY SCREEN THEN.
LET'S SEE HERE, IF I CAN CALL IT UP THERE.
CAN YOU SEE, CAN YOU SEE THAT NOW OR NOT? NO, LET ME.
WELL, IF, UH, IF EVERYONE HAS IT, I, I COULD JUST REFER TO IT.
UM, THE, THE PROCESS, UH, HERE, I JUST, UH, LISTED SOME OF THE, UH, KIND OF BENEFITS TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC FROM HAVING A RATE REVIEW PROCESS.
UM, BUT HERE, LET ME FIRST GO DOWN TO THE, UM, TO THE LAST PAGE HERE.
AND THIS IS, THIS WAS A, A PRETTY ROBUST PROCESS.
IT WAS MORE OR LESS, UH, MIMICKING THE PUBLIC UTILITY COMMISSION PROCESS FOR THE TEXAS PUC.
UH, THERE WOULD BE AN INITIAL, UH, PROPOSAL FOR A RATE CHANGE BY AUSTIN ENERGY.
AND THEN THAT TRIGGERS SORT OF A, A, A PROCESS OF DECIDING WHO IS AN OFFICIAL STAKEHOLDER THAT IS AN INTERVENER.
UH, AND FOLKS, UH, WOULD, WOULD, UM, APPLY FOR THAT.
THERE WOULD BE SORT OF AN INITIAL PROCESS.
AND AS THIS, THIS SHOWS, THERE WOULD BE AN OPPORTUNITY TO ASK QUESTIONS OF THE UTILITY AND GET ANSWERS.
UTILITY CAN THEN ANS AN ASK QUESTIONS OF THE INTERVENERS AND, UH, SO FORTH.
AND A COUPLE DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITIES TO FILE WRITTEN TESTIMONY, REBUTTAL TESTIMONY.
AND, UH, THEN A THEN A HEARING FOR TWO OR THREE DAYS, UH, THEN BRIEFS.
AND THEN THE PROCESS INCLUDED THE IHE, WHICH IS THE INDEPENDENT HEARING EXAMINER.
AND THE HEARING EXAMINER MADE A RECOMMENDATION.
AND AT THAT POINT, THEN THE PROCESS WENT TO THE, THE ELECTRIC UTILITY COMMISSION AS WELL AS, AND THEN ULTIMATELY THE CITY COUNCIL FOR A DECISION.
AND THEN HERE ON THE SECOND PAGE, THIS KIND OF, THIS JUST, UM, FOLLOWS THE PROCESS IN 2016 WHERE, AND IT WAS, IT WAS A GOOD PROCESS BECAUSE OF COURSE, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT A RATE REDUCTION AND JUST HOW MUCH OF A RATE REDUCTION DIFFERENT CUSTOMER CLASSES WOULD GET.
SO WE STARTED OFF WITH A PROPOSAL FOR A $24 MILLION REDUCTION FROM AUSTIN ENERGY.
THE, UM, UH, THE EXPERTS THAT WERE WORKING WITH ME RECOMMENDED A $63 MILLION REDUCTION.
OF COURSE, THERE WERE OTHER EVEN GREATER REDUCTIONS.
THE HEARING EXAMINER COMBINED THE DIFFERENT PROPOSALS AND RECOMMENDED A $75 MILLION REDUCTION.
UH, AND THEN THERE WAS SOME COMPROMISE THAT RESULTED IN A, UH, SOMETHING LIKE A $43 MILLION.
AND THEN ULTIMATELY, AUSTIN ENERGY JOINED THE, THE AGREEMENT.
AND, UH, WE GOT A 40 $42 MILLION REDUCTION.
SO THAT WAS ABOUT A, YOU KNOW, AN $18 MILLION, UH, BENEFIT TO THE PUBLIC FROM THE ORIGINAL PROPOSAL.
AND, UH, THERE WERE, THERE WERE OTHER ISSUES, UH, NON, UH, YOU KNOW, QUANTIFIABLE ISSUES, SOME OF THEM, BUT ISSUES ABOUT HOW, YOU KNOW, THE RATE DESIGN ACTUALLY WORKED.
UH, THERE, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE ISSUES SUCH AS HOW TO, UH, CHARGE FOR CHURCHES, HOUSES OF WORSHIP.
UH, THERE WAS, UH, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW MUCH OF THE RATES SHOULD BE IN, YOU KNOW, HOW MANY SURCHARGES WE SHOULD HAVE, OR WHY YOU SAY PIECEMEAL CHANGES.
THERE WAS, UM, JUST OTHER ISSUES ABOUT HOW, HOW THINGS SHOULD BE PROCESSED.
AND I'M GONNA GO BACK TO THE FIRST PAGE AND JUST SH TALK ABOUT HOW, WHY I THINK A, A RATE REVIEW PROCESS IS GOOD.
AND I THINK ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS IS IT BRINGS EVERYTHING TOGETHER.
AND AS YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT A LOT OF POLICIES TODAY INVOLVING A LOT OF DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF THE ELECTRIC UTILITY.
AND THEY, THEY ARE, THEY ARE INTERRELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN WHAT THE UTILITY DOES WITH ITS POWER PLANTS, WITH ITS TRANSMISSION, WITH THE WAY IT ALLOCATES COSTS.
AND THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE A LOT OF EXPERTS THAT HAVE A LOT OF EXPERIENCE AND INSIGHT, BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF SMART PEOPLE WHO REPRESENT OTHER INTERESTS TOO.
AND, UH, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU KNOW ANYONE, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE IS RIGHT OR WRONG, BUT THERE ARE DIFFERENT ECONOMISTS AND THERE'S DIFFERENT ACCOUNTANTS THAT VIEW THESE THINGS, UH, FROM A DIFFERENT LENS.
AND SOMETIMES ISSUES ARE IMPORTANT TO ONE PARTY THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, ONE PARTY MAY HAVE, UH, YOU KNOW, A REAL, UH, INTENSE INTEREST IN HOW THE RATES ARE CHARGED.
HOW MUCH OF THE, HOW MUCH OF THE RESIDENTIAL RATES SHOULD BE A FIXED CHARGE, AND HOW MUCH OF IT SHOULD BE A, A VOLUMETRIC CHARGE.
THAT'S, THAT'S ALWAYS A CON AN ONGOING, UH, TUG OF WAR WITHIN THE RESIDENTIAL CLASS.
AND OF COURSE, THERE'S TENSION BETWEEN THE RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER, UH, INTEREST AND THE INDUSTRIAL AND COMMERCIAL INTEREST.
THERE'S ALWAYS A TUG OF WAR THERE.
[02:15:01]
ECONOMIC WAYS THAT YOU ALLOCATE COSTS.AND WHEN, WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE A PROCESS THAT IN A ROBUST WAY LETS THE DIFFERENT, UH, DIFFERENT PARTIES WITH DIFFERENT INTERESTS HIRE THEIR OWN EXPERTS AND PRESENT THEIR OWN RECOMMENDATIONS, THERE'S A TENDENCY SOMETIMES TO THINK THAT AUSTIN ENERGY HAS A MONOPOLY ON WHAT IS, UH, THE RIGHT WAY TO DO THINGS.
AND, UH, I DEFINITELY RESPECT THEIR PERSPECTIVE ON THINGS.
BUT THERE ARE, UH, ALTERNATIVES, AND THERE ARE MANY ASPECTS TO HOW THE RATES, UH, ARE SET UP AND HOW THE RATES ARE DESIGNED THAT REALLY INVOLVE SOME, UH, BACK AND FORTH AND, AND SOME POLICY JUDGMENTS NEED TO BE MADE.
AND WHAT THE RATE REVIEW PROCESS DOES IS IT GIVES THE DECISION MAKERS SORT OF A MULTI MULTIPLE CHOICE, UH, CHOICE OF OPTIONS THEY, THEY HAVE INSTEAD OF, YOU KNOW, SAYING, WELL, SHALL WE RAISE THE RATES? OR DON'T RAISE THE RATES.
YOU CAN LOOK AT A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT IDEAS AND KIND OF BRING THOSE TOGETHER.
AND, UH, AND THE SECOND POINT THERE ABOUT ENGAGING STAKEHOLDERS, THEY'RE, UH, THAT'S ONE OF THE BEST THINGS ABOUT AUSTIN.
WHAT I LOVE ABOUT AUSTIN IS THAT WE HAVE FOLKS WHO ARE WILLING TO GET INVOLVED FROM A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT ASPECTS.
WE HAVE ENVIRONMENTAL, UH, INTERESTS.
YOU HAVE, UH, LOW INCOME INTERESTS.
YOU HAVE, UH, JUST A VARIETY OF LARGE AND SMALL CUSTOMER INTEREST, UH, AT THE END OF THE PROCESS.
UM, THERE IS USUALLY A MUCH GREATER SENSE THAT THE RATES ARE FAIR.
THERE'S A PUBLIC CONFIDENCE, UH, THAT COMES FROM KNOWING THAT THINGS HAVE BEEN VETTED PRETTY THOROUGHLY.
AND, UH, THE WAY AUSTIN ENERGY DID IT WITH THE, YOU KNOW, THEY HAD A, A WEBSITE, UH, A PAGE THAT COLLECTED ALL THE INFORMATION, ALL THE, THE, THE EVIDENTIARY SUPPORT FROM AUSTIN ENERGY AND FROM EVERYONE ELSE, AND THE QUESTIONS BACK AND FORTH.
IT WAS ALL IN ONE PLACE THAT WAS HUGELY, UH, HELPFUL.
AND IT, IT HELPED DECISION MAKERS SEE, YOU KNOW, WHERE PEOPLE WERE COMING FROM AND HELPED, UM, I THINK HELPED UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS A, IS A SPECTRUM OF, OF, UH, DECISIONS THAT CAN BE SUPPORTED.
AND IT HELPS SEE SORT OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT THAT RANGE OF ALTERNATIVES WERE.
UH, AND ALL, UH, AND I ADDED THIS IN, AND I, I KNOW THAT AUSTIN DOESN'T ALWAYS DO THIS, BUT A LOT OF PLACES WILL HAVE, UM, A MORE ROBUST LOCAL PUBLIC HEARING, OR I, YOU MIGHT SAY, LISTENING SESSION OR PUBLIC INPUT MEETING.
THERE'S A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT WAYS FOR IT TO HEAR FROM, BUT JUST TO GET MORE OF THE FEEDBACK, KIND OF, UH, GET A, A SENSE OF WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE PUBLIC.
AND I'LL TELL YOU RIGHT NOW, GOING AROUND THE COUNTRY, UH, THESE, THESE PUBLIC HEARINGS, YOU KNOW, UH, WHERE THE, WHERE CITIZENS CAN GET TO THE MICROPHONE AND HAVE THEIR SAY, THEY ARE JUST, THEY ARE LARGER THAN EVER.
I HAVE NEVER SEEN SUCH PACKED ROOMS. PEOPLE HAVE A LOT TO SAY.
AND I THINK IT'S, IT'S GOOD THAT THERE IS A, AN OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE THEIR SAY THAT CAN ALSO BE PUT INTO THE RECORD.
AND I THINK PUBLIC SENTIMENT IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF RATE DESIGN.
MAKING SURE THAT, UM, THAT THERE IS, UM, THAT THE DECISION MAKERS HAVE THE SENSE OF HOW AFFORDABLE THINGS ARE VIEWED BY THE PUBLIC.
AND, AND FOR INSTANCE, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT DOES THE PUBLIC HAVE TO SAY ABOUT WHETHER THEY WANT THEIR RATES TO BE MORE FIXED, UH, AND, AND DEPENDABLE, OR WHETHER THEY WANT TO HAVE MORE CONTROL? AND THAT IS, THAT, THAT'S THE ASPECT THAT I THINK IS IMPORTANT ABOUT, UH, KEEPING THE CUSTOMER CHARGE LOW, KEEPING THE FIXED PART LOW.
IT GIVES CUSTOMERS MORE CONTROL WHEN, UH, THEIR CHOICES ABOUT USAGE AND ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND CONSERVATION CAN HAVE A BIGGER IMPACT ON THEIR BILL.
I THINK IT'S MORE ABOUT CUSTOMER CONTROL AND, AND HAVING, UM, YOU KNOW, MORE TO SAY ABOUT YOUR MONTHLY BILLS, UH, BROAD AGREEMENT, I WOULD SAY MORE THAN HALF THE TIME WHEN THERE IS A RATE REVIEW OF A MUNICIPAL UTILITY, THE PARTIES ULTIMATELY COME TO AN AGREEMENT.
THAT'S THE BEST CASE SCENARIO.
AND, UH, THIS GIVES AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THERE TO BE TRADE-OFFS.
I MEAN, IF THE RATE REVIEW, UH, PROCESS IS DONE RIGHT, ALL YOU HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF ISSUES ON, AND, AND PEOPLE CAN TRADE OFF, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, ONE INTEREST FOR ANOTHER.
AND I ALREADY TALKED ABOUT THE, UM, THE, UM, OPPORTUNITY TO, UM, UH, TO HAVE, UH, MULTIPLE, MULTIPLE CHOICES.
NOW I AM TRYING TO, UH, IT, HAVE I STOPPED SHARING NOW? DID I SUCCESSFULLY STOP THAT? OKAY,
SO ANYWAYS, UM, I, I DON'T KNOW THAT I HAVE MUCH ELSE TO SAY EXCEPT THAT I THINK THAT THE PROCESS, UH, I IS A GOOD ONE.
AND I THINK NO MATTER WHAT THE CITY DOES, UH, WITH, YOU KNOW, UH, YOU KNOW, AUSTIN ENERGY RATES, THERE REALLY SHOULD BE A CHANCE FOR A BIG EVENT, A CHANCE TO REALLY, UH, LOOK UNDER THE HOOD AND TO, UH, YOU KNOW, COMPARE HOW ALL THESE DIFFERENT, UH, PARTS OF THE RATE DESIGN, UH, ARE INTERRELATED.
AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THEN YOU HAVE PREDICTABILITY GOING FORWARD FOR THE NEXT, UM, THREE OR FOUR YEARS.
[02:20:01]
THE PERFECT TIME.ALTHOUGH YOU, YOU CAN DO FOUR YEARS, I WOULDN'T GO MUCH FURTHER THAN THAT, UH, BEFORE ACTUALLY TAKING A LOOK AT IT.
AND, UH, IT, IT, UH, I, I JUST THINK IS, IS IS A VERY, UM, GOOD GOVERNMENT WAY TO APPROACH THINGS.
AGAIN, AUSTIN ENERGY, YOU KNOW, IN THE, IN THE PREVIOUS DECADE, DID A, A VERY ROBUST RATE REVIEW PROCESS.
THERE ARE MANY CITIES THAT DO SOMETHING THAT IS NOT, DOESN'T HAVE AS MANY, AS MUCH DUE PROCESS, DOESN'T HAVE AS MANY, UH, DIFFERENT COMPONENTS TO IT.
SO IF THERE IS A CONCERN THAT THE, THE PROCESS TAKES TOO MANY MONTHS OR IT ISN'T AS, UH, YOU KNOW, MAYBE NECESSARY TO HIRE A JUDGE, THERE ARE DIFFERENT WAYS TO DO IT.
IT SEEMS AS AUSTIN ENERGY HAD WENT FROM HAVING ONE OF THE MOST ROBUST PROCESSES TO HAVING, YOU KNOW, NO RATE REVIEW PROCESS, AND JUST HAVING A, YOU KNOW, ONE PROPOSAL THAT IS THEN PLACED INTO THE CITY BUDGET.
AND, UH, I, I WOULD HOPE THAT AT THE VERY LEAST YOU GUYS WOULD LOOK AT A WAY TO, UH, YOU KNOW, HAVE A MORE, UH, THOUGHTFUL AND DEDICATED, UH, PROCESS HOPEFULLY, OR PREFERABLY OUTSIDE OF THE BUDGET PROCESS, WHICH IS ALREADY COMPLICATED ENOUGH AND ALREADY CONTENTIOUS ENOUGH, UH, SO THAT THIS PROCESS CAN HAVE, UH, A THOROUGH VETTING AND A THOROUGH REVIEW.
AND, UH, APPRECIATE THE CHANCE TO, TO SHARE IT WITH YOU.
AND THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR INSIGHTS AND YOUR TIME AND REPRESENTING CONSUMERS IN OUR COMMUNITY OVER WHAT, TWO OR THREE CYCLES OF THIS.
I THINK THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY, AND LET ME SET A STAGE HERE, BECAUSE WHEN A REAL RATE CASE HAPPENS, AND I THINK IT'S CALLED SOMETHING OUT RATE REVIEW OR REVENUE SUFFICIENCY REVIEW HAPPENS.
EVEN WE MIGHT NOT GET THE OPPORTUNITY TO ASK HIM QUESTIONS, BECAUSE MOST OF US, PROBABLY NONE OF US MIGHT BE INTERVENERS.
MAYBE YOU WILL OR PAUL ROBIN
AND SO THIS IS A TIME TO ASK ABOUT THE REAL PROCESS.
SOME OF THE FOLKS HERE, JOHN, HAVE NOT BEEN THROUGH THIS.
I'VE BEEN THROUGH IT MAYBE ONCE, BUT THERE'S ALWAYS MORE TO LEARN.
AND SO I THINK IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO SORT OF GIVE AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS.
MY UNDERSTANDING, AND THIS IS WHERE I WANT YOU TO CORRECT ME AND ENHANCE, IS THAT IT'S SORT OF LIKE A PUC PROCESS, AND THE INDEPENDENT HEARING EXAMINER IS SIMILAR TO A JUDGE, A, A PSEUDO JUDGE.
AND THEN SAY, WHEN YOU WERE THE INDEPENDENT, UM, CONSUMER ADVOCATE, YOU'RE A HIRED CONSULTANT TO REPRESENT CONSUMERS WHO DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO RAISE, TO GET AN EXPERT INVOLVED.
AND MOST CONSUMERS EITHER ARE BAFFLED BY THIS, DON'T HAVE THE TIME, BECAUSE THEY HAVE THEIR REAL LIVES AND SUCH NOT.
AND SO YOU HAVE THE EXPERTISE.
HOW MANY OF THESE CASES, AND OVER WHAT REGIONS HAVE YOU DONE THIS? AND DO YOU SPECIALIZE ON MUNIS OR CO-OPS, OR DO YOU I I, WELL, YOU KNOW, UH, VAST MAJORITY OF MY WORK IS REPRESENTING CONSUMER ORGANIZATIONS OF INVESTOR OWNED UTILITIES, SUCH AS AT THE, THE TEXAS PUC FOR INSTANCE.
I, UH, AM CURRENTLY CURRENTLY REPRESENTING A A RP IN, UH, AN ENCORE CASE AT THAT'S ABOUT TO BE DECIDED, UH, BY THE TEXAS PUC.
UH, HOWEVER, I'VE DONE, UH, AT LEAST, UH, HALF A DOZEN OF, OF, UH, I WOULD SAY REVIEWS LIKE WHAT AUSTIN ENERGY HAS DONE.
UH, MOSTLY ELECTRIC, BUT ALSO SOME WATER, MUNICIPAL WATER CASES.
ALL OF THE WATER REVIEWS THAT I'VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH HAVE ENDED IN SETTLEMENTS.
UH, THERE'S A, I I AM, UH, INVOLVED IN ONE CURRENTLY WITH THE, THE CITY OF ST.
UM, UH, THERE, ONE IS IN KENTUCKY.
SO I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, I WOULD SAY MOST MUNICIPAL, UM, ELECTRIC PROVIDERS DON'T DO THIS MUCH OF A, A SYSTEM.
BUT THERE ARE, THERE ARE SEVERAL THAT DO A SYSTEM WHERE AT LEAST THERE IS AN HOUR OR TWO FOR CONSUMER ADVOCATES TO MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS, TO HIRE EXPERTS, TO DIG INTO THE NUMBERS AND TO MAKE THEIR OWN INDEPENDENT RECOMMENDATIONS.
AND USUALLY THERE IS, UH, SOME ENVIRONMENTAL GROUP THERE.
USUALLY THERE IS SOME REPRESENTATIVE OF THE LARGEST CUSTOMER IN THAT PARTICULAR CITY THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY MIGHT HIRE EXPERTS.
AND, UH, SOMETIMES THERE, THERE MIGHT BE, UH, GOVERNMENT FACILITIES, ARMY BASES FOR SENATOR THAT HAD THEIR OWN, UM, UH, INTEREST REPRESENTED MAYBE TRANSMISSION COMPANIES.
IT KIND OF DEPENDS ON THE REGULATORY, UH, STRUCTURE OF THAT PARTICULAR STATE, UH, OR THAT PARTICULAR CITY.
UH, BUT I, I WOULD, I WOULD SAY UNIVERSALLY THE PROCESS IS DONE IS BETTER WHEN IT'S NOT PART OF THE, UH, THE CITY BUDGET.
THE CITY BUDGET IS SOMETHING THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, IT'S ALREADY COMPLICATED ENOUGH.
USUALLY THE UTILITY IS AN ENTERPRISE OR, YOU KNOW, IN UNTO ITSELF, AND I THINK IT, IT CAN AND, AND DOES DESERVE IT ITS OWN, UH, SEPARATE TIME.
[02:25:01]
MEAN, THERE ARE SOME CITIES AND I, I DON'T THINK THIS IS THE BEST POLICY, BUT WE'LL KIND OF, KIND OF PIECEMEAL THINGS OUT, AND THEY'LL SAY, WELL, THEY'LL HAVE A CHARGE FOR THE FUEL, AND THEN THEY'LL HAVE A, A CHARGE FOR THE CAPITAL INVESTMENTS, AND THEN THEY'LL HAVE A CHARGE FOR OTHER CERTAIN EXPENSES.AND IT REALLY NEEDS TO ALL BE TIED TOGETHER.
I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT YOU LOOK AT, AT, AT THE ENTIRE PICTURE AT ONE TIME.
AND, AND AGAIN, I THINK THERE'S OPPORTUNITY SOMETIMES, UH, YOU KNOW, CONSUMERS WILL BE HAPPY TO CONCEDE A LITTLE BIT OF A REVENUE INCREASE AS LONG AS THE RATE DESIGN IS MORE FAVORABLE TO THEIR PERSPECTIVE AND SO FORTH.
AND IF YOU WENT, AND, AND THAT TO ME IS KIND OF THE, THE BEAUTY OF, OF, OF THE, THE, THE BIG RATE REVIEW.
YOU ARE ABLE TO LOOK AT ALL THE FACTORS AT ONE TIME, AND, UH, EVERYONE USUALLY COMES AWAY FEELING SOMEWHAT SATISFIED THAT THEY GOT SOMETHING THAT THEY WANTED.
AND, UH, AND, AND THEN YOU'RE SET UP FOR ANOTHER FEW YEARS AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO IT FOR, UM, YOU KNOW, FOR A LITTLE WHILE.
SO, BUT THE STRUCTURE OF IT, JUST GIVING THIS OVERVIEW, SO THE INDEPENDENT HEARING EXAMINER IS LIKE A JUDGE, AND LIKE THE ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE, AND THE INDEPENDENT CONSUMER ADVOCATE IS LIKE OPEC, WHICH WOULD BE THE OFFICE, UH, YOU KNOW, HERE IN TEXAS MM-HMM
SO THEN THE INTERVENERS PROVIDE INPUT, AND THEN THE ULTIMATE DECISION MAKER IS OUR CITY COUNCIL.
SO YOU GO THROUGH, YOU GO TO THE JUDGE, AND THIS IS, THIS IS WHAT KIND OF MIRRORS THE, THE PUC PROCESS.
THERE IS AN EVIDENTIARY PROCESS, A LOT OF QUESTIONS, A LOT OF DETAIL, A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, SCHEDULES AND NUMBERS AND, AND, AND EVERYONE KIND OF MAKING SURE THEY'RE ON THE SAME PAGE ABOUT THE NUMBERS.
AND THEN A JUDGE THAT LOOKS AT IT, UH, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S A HEARING EXAMINER, WHATEVER YOU CALL IT, AND THAT, THAT PERSON THEN MAKES A RECOMMENDATION.
AND THEN THE CITY COUNCIL COULD EITHER TAKE THAT RECOMMENDATION OR THEY CAN MAKE CHANGES.
AND, UH, SO THEN, THEN THERE'S A PROCESS WHERE THE PARTIES KIND OF, YOU KNOW, EITHER MAKE A BRIEF OR PUT POSITION STATEMENTS TOGETHER.
AND, UH, THE CITY COUNCIL CAN, CAN CHOOSE, YOU KNOW, OPTION A, B, AND C ON EACH ONE OF THE ISSUES.
AND, UH, TO GET TO THE, SO FOR US, IF WE WANNA PARTICIPATE NEXT YEAR, BECAUSE MY UNDERSTANDING IS 2026 WILL BE THE TEST YEAR, 2027, THERE WILL BE A RATE REVIEW.
UM, IF WE'RE NOT INTERVENERS, THEN WE CAN CERTAINLY MONITOR WHAT'S POSTED IN THE WEBSITE, WATCH THE VIDEOS, AND SUCH, NOT, AND YOU CAN, THERE MAY BE OPEN FORMS WHERE YOU GIVE INPUT, BUT WE WON'T HERE, WELL, YOU COULD BUILD THE, UH, UM, THIS COMMISSION INTO THE PROCESS, YOU KNOW, THE COMMISSION, THE, THE, THE, YOU KNOW, THE JUDGE COULD PRESENT THE RECOMMENDATION.
THE PARTIES CAN MAKE THEIR, PRESENT THEIR POSITIONS AFTER THAT PROCESS TO THE COMMISSION, BUT BEFORE THE CITY COUNCIL GETS TO SEE IT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, I I THINK YOU GUYS COULD BE PART OF THE PROCESS.
SO DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY? WELL, I, SO JOHN, FIRST OF ALL, THANKS FOR YOUR SERVICE IN THE PAST, AND THANKS FOR MAKING THIS PRESENTATION.
YOU PRESENTED WHAT HAPPENED IN 2016, BUT WE HAD A PRETTY SIMILAR PROCESS IN 22, DIDN'T WE? OR DID SOME THINGS CHANGE? YES, YES.
UH, THE, THE, UH, THERE WAS NOT, UH, THERE WAS NOT A TOTAL AGREEMENT.
AND, UH, THE UTILITY GOT MOSTLY WHAT IT WANTED THE CITY COUNCIL, YOU KNOW, SO THAT, I MEAN, THAT CAN HAPPEN NOW THAT YOU COULD HAVE OTHER ALTERNATIVES AND THE CITY COUNCIL CAN STILL GO AHEAD AND, UH, BUT I MEAN, THE PROCESS WAS PRETTY SIMILAR.
IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN A MORE, A LITTLE MORE TRUNCATED, BUT IT WAS A, YEAH, IT WAS, YEAH, IT WAS, IT WAS VERY SIMILAR.
AND THEN, AND, AND THEN I WAS JUST SURPRISED TO SEE THAT WE WENT FROM, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE OF VERY ROBUST, I THINK MAYBE THERE HAVE BEEN THREE IN A ROW THAT WERE PRETTY ROBUST AND, AND, AND KIND OF MIRRORED THE PUC PROCESS.
AND THEN THE LAST, THE LAST, UH, INCREASE WAS, YOU KNOW, WAS, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS NO, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, PROCESS THAT, THAT BROUGHT IN OTHER STAKEHOLDERS AND OTHER
SO, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SOME TIME, OBVIOUSLY, SINCE THE RATE CASE IS GONNA BE NEXT YEAR, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT I'D LIKE TO SEE ARE, I HEAR THESE AND I SEE DOWNTOWN, WE SEE ALL THESE NEW EXPENSIVE CONDOS, TOWN HOMES, HIGH RISES, ET CETERA, APARTMENTS, AND THEY'RE VERY EFFICIENT, AND THEY'RE NOT PROBABLY OCCUPIED BY LOW AND MEDIUM INCOME FOLKS.
AND SO WE WONDER HOW MUCH, BECAUSE I'VE HEARD THIS COMMENT BEFORE, THE TIER ONE AND TIER TWO FOLKS, HOW MUCH OF THAT POPULATION ARE THOSE PEOPLE THAT AREN'T IN THE CAP PROGRAM? AND SO IF WE'RE TRYING TO HELP LMI CUSTOMERS WITH THE RATE DESIGN AS FAR AS THE INVERTED BLOCK, HOW MUCH IS THAT INACCURATE IN A WAY? OR NOT PRECISE ENOUGH BECAUSE OF A RISING POPULATION OF TIER ONE, TIER TWO CUSTOMERS THAT IN? YEAH, I MEAN, I, I, I THINK AUSTIN ENERGY'S, UH, TIERS ARE PRETTY, MAKE IT PRETTY COMPLICATED.
I, I THINK THAT THE MORE TIERS YOU HAVE, THE MORE COMPLICATED THE
[02:30:01]
RATE STRUCTURE IS ALTOGETHER.UM, MOST, MOST, UM, CITIES HAVE ONLY TWO, MAYBE THREE TIERS, FOUR TIERS, UH, KIND OF TAKES IT, UM, TO ANOTHER LEVEL.
BUT YOU'RE, YOU'RE RIGHT ON THE USAGE.
AND I, AND I, AND I, I REALLY RESPECT PAUL ROBIN AND HIS, HIS, UM, YOU KNOW, HIS EXPLANATION ABOUT HOW THERE ARE PARTS OF THE CITY THAT HAVE MUCH LOWER USAGE THAN OTHER PARTS.
AND IT'S, AND THERE IS A CORRELATION BETWEEN LOW INCOME AND HIGH INCOME, BUT IT, BUT THERE'S, THERE ARE MANY OTHER THINGS.
LOW USAGE ALSO CORRELATES WITH OLDER PEOPLE.
LOW USAGE DEFINITELY CORRELATES WITH APARTMENT DWELLERS.
AND SO, LIKE, IF YOU HAVE, LIKE I SAID, HIGH RISE APARTMENT DWELLERS PROBABLY USE SOME OF THE LOWEST, UH, MOST OF THE CUSTOMERS.
THEY ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY HURT WHEN THE CITY RAISES THE FIXED PART OF THE BILL INSTEAD OF THE, UH, USAGE PART.
AND, UH, YOU KNOW, WELL, THE SECOND THING THAT I THINK THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS AN ASSESSMENT OF THE AUSTIN ENERGY CAP PROGRAM.
AND ARE YOU VERY FAMILIAR WITH THAT? YEAH.
THAT'S THE CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE PROGRAM, RIGHT? FOR, UH, FOR, UM, INCOME-BASED CUSTOMERS? YES.
NO, IT'S NOT IN, WELL, I GUESS IT'S INCOME, BUT IT'S REALLY TIED TO THE ENTRANCE BEING ONE OF SEVEN, UH, PROGRAMS THAT THEY'RE ALREADY IN THE CUSTOMER.
THEY'RE, IT'S A CUSTOMER BENEFIT PROGRAM THAT INCLUDES, YEAH, IT'S A BASKET OF DIFFERENT THINGS.
SO THE THING IS, IT'S, IT'S BEEN INCREASED ALMOST THREE X FROM 35,000 TO 85,000, AND THAT'S 17 OR 18% OF THE AUSTIN ENERGY CUSTOMER BASE RESIDENTIAL, OUR POVERTY RATE IN AUSTIN IS 12 OR 13%.
SO IT'S 50% HIGHER, AND THE FIXED COST IS ZERO.
SO DO ANY OF THESE OTHER, UH, UTILITIES THAT YOU USE AS A BENCHMARK TO COMPARE THE FIXED COST, THE CUSTOMER CHARGE? DO THEY HAVE A CAP PROGRAM THAT'S AS FOCUSED ON LMI CUSTOMERS? UM, YES.
I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN, UM, I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN DRAW TOO MANY CONCLUSIONS OVERALL BECAUSE EVERY STATE IS DEFINITELY, YOU KNOW, HALF THE STATES ARE VERTICALLY INTEGRATED.
BUT I, UM, UM, THERE IS DEFINITELY, UM, THERE'S DEFINITELY A LOT TO, TO, TO LOOK AT THERE.
I DON'T KNOW
INSTEAD OF DOING A PERCENT OF INCOME DISCOUNT, JUST SAY, IF YOU MEET A CERTAIN CRITERIA, YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY THE FIXED CHARGE.
AND THAT ALSO, I GUESS HAS SOME, UH, I GUESS IN SOME WAY ADDRESSES THE CONCERN ABOUT THE IMPACT ON LOW INCOME CUSTOMERS FROM A HIGH FIXED CHARGE.
BUT, UM, I WOULD SAY, UM, MOST PEOPLE WHO HAVE, UH, HAVE AN INCOME BASED NEED WHO CAN'T PAY FOR THEIR BILLS, DON'T ACTUALLY RECEIVE ANY ASSISTANCE OR, OR EVEN LIE, UH, THERE, IT'S, UM, UH, IT, IT IS A, A COMPLICATED PROGRAM, BUT AGAIN, THERE ARE A LOT OF INTERRELATED ASPECTS.
YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE, THE DIFFERENT ISSUES YOU TALKED ABOUT, THEY'RE INTERRELATED, WHICH IN MY MIND JUST MAKES ME BELIEVE EVEN MORE.
THAT, UH, A, A RATE REVIEW THAT INCLUDES AS MUCH OF THE RATE MAKING FACTORS AT ONE TIME IS IMPORTANT SO THAT YOU UNDERSTAND HOW ONE ISSUE AFFECTS ANOTHER.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? CHRIS? HI.
UH, THANKS FOR, UH, TELLING US ABOUT, UH, YOUR WORK ON RATE CASES.
IT'S A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO ASK YOU QUESTIONS, AND THANKS TO THE PEOPLE WHO, UH, INVITED YOU TO SPEAK.
UM, WOULD YOU TELL US ABOUT THE ROLE OF THE INDEPENDENT, INDEPENDENT HEARING EXAMINER? WHAT ARE THEY DOING TO HELP PARTIES, UH, FIND CONSENSUS AND SHAPE THE, THE OPTIONS THAT ARE, ARE SHARED LATER IN THE PROCESS? UH, THEY DON'T, UH, UH, IN THE, THE TWO RATE REVIEWS THAT I WAS A PART OF IN AUSTIN, THEY, THEY DON'T PARTICIPATE IN THE SETTLEMENT DISCUSSIONS.
THEY ARE MORE OF A REFEREE JUST, YOU KNOW, UM, RULING ON EVIDENTIARY THINGS AND, AND, UH, JUST KIND OF CONDUCTING THE HEARING AND GETTING THE EVIDE, MAKING SURE THE EVIDENCE IS, UH, COLLECTED.
SO THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY ACT AS A, UM, YOU KNOW, KIND OF AN INITIAL DECISION MAKER AND, AND SORT OF LAYING OUT THE ISSUES AND MAKING A JUDGMENT IN THEIR OPINION.
AND THAT JUST BECOMES SORT OF A STRAW MAN, UH, STARTING POINT FOR THE CITY COUNCIL.
UM, BUT, UH, THE NEGOTIATIONS, UM, JUST OCCUR AMONGST THE PARTIES.
SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, UH, YOU KNOW, A FEW PARTIES WILL GET TOGETHER.
SOMETIMES ALL THE PARTIES WILL GET TOGETHER.
UM, SOMETIMES THE CONS, THE VARIOUS
[02:35:01]
PUBLIC INTEREST GROUPS AND CONSUMER PARTIES WILL GET TOGETHER AND SEE IF THEY CAN REACH CONSENSUS, UH, BECAUSE THERE IS, UM, YOU KNOW, FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVEN'T, UH, YOU KNOW, SEEN A RATE CASE BEFORE, IT'S SORT OF A, IT'S, IT'S TRYING TO DECIDE A TWO PHASE DECISION.ONE IS HOW MUCH REVENUE REQUIREMENT, HOW MUCH, UH, OVERALL MONEY REV, YOU KNOW, ON A, ON AN ANNUAL BASIS, DOES THE UTILITY NEED? AND THEN THE SECOND QUESTION IS, WHO DOES THAT MONEY COME FROM? HOW DO YOU DIVIDE UP THE PIE? AND, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, THE, THE SUBSIDY, YOU KNOW, EVERYONE SEES SUBSIDY IN A DIFFERENT WAY.
THE, UH, THE LARGEST INDUSTRIAL CUSTOMERS, YOU KNOW, HAVE THEIR OWN PERSPECTIVE ABOUT WHAT THE FIXED COSTS ARE AND WHAT, WHAT COSTS THEY CAUSE AND, AND SO FORTH.
AND IT'S NOT SO MUCH THE, AS A QUESTION AS TO WHETHER A COST IS A FIXED COST OR A VARIABLE COST.
THE, THE MORE IMPORTANT QUESTION IS WHO IS CAUSING THAT COST? WE WANT TO, GENERALLY SPEAKING, MAKE THE COST CAUSER PAY THOSE COSTS.
BUT THERE ARE DISAGREEMENTS ABOUT WHAT, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH OF THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM, HOW MANY OF THE POLES AND WIRES ARE CAUSED BY ANY PARTICULAR PARTY.
UM, THE, YOU KNOW, RESIDENTIAL CONSUMER ADVOCATES LIKE MYSELF, WE, WE LOOK AT IT USUALLY FROM, DOES THE, IF ONE CUSTOMER'S ADDED TO THE SYSTEM, WHAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE THEY CAUSING, UH, OBVIOUSLY THEIR METER AND THE LINE TO THEIR HOUSE AND THE, UH, CUSTOMER SERVICE AND BILLING AND SO FORTH IS, IS, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT'S A FIXED COST THAT IS RELATED JUST TO THAT CUSTOMER.
BUT THEN THERE'S A DISAGREEMENT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE WIRES THAT GO DOWN THE STREET.
UH, YOU KNOW, I WOULD ARGUE THAT, YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE MOSTLY RESPONSIBILITY OF LARGER CUSTOMERS, AND THOSE ARE, THE SYSTEM IS ALREADY THERE.
I THINK SOMETIMES THE UTILITY IS THE PERSPECTIVE THAT THAT'S A FIXED COST AND EVERYBODY THAT SHOULD JUST BE DIVIDED UP AMONGST ALL THE CUSTOMERS.
BUT THERE'S A LOT, THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT, UH, THEORIES ABOUT WHAT'S THE FAIREST WAY TO DIVIDE UP KIND OF THAT DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM THAT'S, THAT, THAT, THAT'S, UH, REALLY OPEN TO A, A BROAD RANGE OF OPINION, I WOULD SAY.
SO IT SOUNDS LIKE THE INDEPENDENT HEARING EXAMINERS MAYBE 70% MODERATOR THAT'S HELPING TO GET EVERYBODY PUTTING EVIDENCE, UM, ON THE RECORD.
AND THEN 30% THEY HAVE SOME JUDGMENT ABOUT WHAT'S GOOD, UM, OR, OR WHAT SHOULD BE DONE.
AND YOU JUST MENTIONED DIFFERENT FRAMEWORKS FOR, UH, EVALUATING RATES, UM, MM-HMM
WHAT IS THE, WHAT IS THE FRAMEWORK THAT, UH, THE, THE HEARING EXAMINERS IS USING TO, TO DETERMINE WHAT MAKES SENSE? MAKING A JUDGMENT CALL ABOUT THINGS SO THAT, I GUESS THEIR, THEIR FINAL PRODUCT IS THEIR, UH, RECOMMENDATION.
SO THEY, THEY, THEY TAKE ALL THE EVIDENCE AND PROCESS IT AND COME UP WITH A, UH, A RECOMMENDED DECISION, UH, AND, UM, THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT DOCUMENT, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT DECISION COULD BE ADOPTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL, OR THE CITY COUNCIL CAN GO IN.
WE, WE LIKE THIS DECISION, BUT WE'D LIKE TO CHANGE YOUR DECI YOUR YOUR RECOMMENDATION ON THIS PART AND THAT PART, AND WE'D LIKE TO ADJUST YOUR RATE DESIGN A LITTLE BIT HERE.
SO IT SORT OF BECOMES LIKE THE, UH, I SAID THE STRAW MAN PROPOSAL, OR THE DEFAULT POSITION THAT THEN PARTIES ARGUE FROM.
UM, UM, YOU SAY THAT YOU, YOU THAT, UH, THREE YEARS IS THE RIGHT CADENCE FOR A RATE REVIEW.
IN YOUR OPINION, COULD YOU TELL US WHY YOU THINK THAT IS? SO, FOR EXAMPLE, OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS, AUSTIN'S PROBABLY HAD AS MUCH CHANGE, UM, AS IT'S EVER HAD.
THE UTILITIES INDUSTRIES IN TEXAS HAS HAD AS MUCH CHANGES AS IT'S PROBABLY EVER HAD.
AND IT SEEMS TO ME LIKE THE 2022 RATE CASE, UH, MOSTLY STILL APPLIES TODAY.
SO WHAT, WHAT'S DIFFERENT TODAY VERSUS IN 2022 AND WHAT CHANGES OVER THE COURSE OF THREE YEARS? UH, ME AND AUSTIN CONTINUES TO HAVE POPULATION GROWTH INCREASED NUMBERS OF CUSTOMERS.
SO I ASSUME THAT THAT WOULD, YOU KNOW, THAT MEANS THAT YOU CAN SPREAD THE RATES OUT FURTHER.
SO THAT, I MEAN, THAT, THAT'S A DEVELOPMENT IN AUSTIN THAT SHOULD HAVE A POSITIVE EFFECT ON RATES.
UM, YOU KNOW, AS OPPOSED TO A CITY WHERE, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T HAVE THAT KIND OF A GROWTH, THE GROWTH KIND OF, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN, YOU CAN SPREAD THINGS OUT, BUT THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, THE NATURE OF THE EXPENSES HAVE CHANGED QUITE A BIT, BUT I, I THINK FOR, IN MY MIND, THE THREE OR FOUR YEAR PERIOD IS IDEAL BECAUSE YOU, YOU DON'T HAVE, YOU REALLY DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO THIS EVERY YEAR.
AND THAT WOULD, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT WOULD BE TOO MUCH ADMINISTRATIVE EXPENSE, BUT IF YOU LET IT GO TOO FAR, THEN OF COURSE THE RATES JUST AREN'T REFLECTING REALITY ANYMORE.
OR, OR THE RATES HAVE BEEN CHANGED.
YOU KNOW, ONE COMPONENT OF THE RATES HAS BEEN CHANGED.
YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE, UH, THE, UH, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE THE, THE POWER SUPPLY ADJUSTMENTS.
YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE CAP PART OF THE BILL, THE, UM, PSA AND ALL THESE, YOU KNOW, THESE COMPONENTS ARE CHANGING MORE FREQUENTLY BASED ON, UH, CHANGING COSTS, BUT NOT EVERYTHING IN THE BASE RATES IS CHANGING.
AND SO THERE'S AN INTERRELATIONSHIP.
AND SO IN MY MIND, THE, THE BETTER DECISION IS ONE THAT MATCHES, YOU KNOW, 20, 26 REVENUES WITH 2026 INVESTMENTS WITH 2026
[02:40:01]
CUSTOMER NUMBERS, WITH 2026 EXPECTATIONS FOR INFLATION AND SO FORTH.AND SO THAT YOU'RE NOT, YOU DON'T HAVE A MISMATCH.
YOU'RE TRYING TO KIND OF GET ONE SNAPSHOT.
YOU'RE TRYING TO LOOK AT THE UTILITIES BOOKS AND RECORDS AT ONE TIME.
AND, AND THAT'S, UM, USUALLY GONNA RESULT IN THE FAIREST DECISION AND IN BETWEEN RATE REVIEWS, WHAT ARE THE INDICATORS THAT PEOPLE MIGHT LOOK AT TO DETERMINE, YOU KNOW, SHORT OF A, OF A FULL REVIEW INDICATORS TO DETERMINE THAT RATES ARE, YOU KNOW, WITHIN A, A REASONABLE RANGE.
I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT OF WAYS TO DO THAT.
I MEAN, YOU COULD, YOU CAN ALSO, UM, YOU KNOW, END, YOU KNOW, THE RATE REVIEW COULD END WITH A RECOMMENDATION FOR RATES GOING, YOU KNOW, UH, CHANGING, MAYBE GOING UP OVER THE NEXT THREE YEARS IN, IN THREE STEPS.
YOU COULD HAVE SORT OF A PHASE IN OF WHAT YOU THINK, OR MAYBE THAT WOULD, YOU KNOW, MATCH WHAT THE UTILITIES INVESTMENTS ARE EXPECTED TO BE OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS.
UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S, UM, THERE'S A LOT OF WAYS TO COMPARE, I GUESS, TO OTHER, YOU KNOW, CITIES OF A SIMILAR SIZE.
IT, IT REALLY IS HARD TO COMPARE ONE CITY TO THE NEXT.
I MEAN, IT'S CERTAINLY HARD TO COMPARE FROM ONE STATE TO THE NEXT, GIVEN THE, THE, THE VAST DIFFERENCES IN HOW UTILITIES ARE, ARE REGULATED.
AND, AND OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, AUSTIN, YOU HAVE, YOU HAD THE ADDITIONAL, UH, UH, ISSUE OF, OF THE OUTSIDE CUSTOMERS, CUSTOMERS OUTSIDE THE CITY LIMITS.
THAT'S A VERY COMPLICATED POLITICAL AND LEGAL AND POLICY DECISION.
I'LL LET OTHER PEOPLE ASK QUESTIONS.
CHRIS, WHAT'S YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH THIS BEING AN OLD HAND? WE
SO 2016 WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT IT WAS THIS MORE INVOLVED PROCESS.
I THINK THERE WAS ONE BEFORE THAT.
IT BEEN LIKE A DECADE OR MORE, RIGHT? BEEN 2020.
I'M CYRUS, I'M SORRY IF I CUT YOU OFF.
OH, NO, I, I, UM, I WAS JUST SAYING, I THINK, UM, UH, I'LL BRING THIS UP LATER, BUT I THINK WE SHOULD CONTINUE THIS DISCUSSION AT THE NEXT MEETING AND POTENTIALLY HAVE SOME ACTION.
I THINK THERE'S, IT'S GONNA BE HARD TO TAKE ANY ACTION ON THIS, THIS YEAR, GIVEN WE'RE IN MAY MM-HMM
UH, MAYBE WE CAN HAVE A RECOMMENDATION ABOUT AT LEAST HAVING, YOU KNOW, AN ADDITIONAL PUBLIC MEETING WHEN THEY DISCUSS RATES AT THE BUDGET OR SOMETHING MM-HMM
BUT, UM, I THINK WE SHOULD THINK ABOUT HOW WE WOULD WANNA DESIGN THIS KIND OF PROCESS FOR 2027, GIVEN WHERE WE ARE.
THIS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALREADY LATE IN THE YEAR TO TRY TO DO ALL THIS MM-HMM
UH, BUT IF WE COULD, IF WE COULD, IF THIS BODY COULD RECOMMEND, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE PARAMETERS OF A RAPE CASE WOULD LOOK LIKE IN 27, I THINK THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO CITY COUNCIL AND AUSTIN ENERGY JUST TO SORT OF SAY, HERE'S WHAT WE RECOMMEND.
SO MAYBE WE CAN PUT THAT ON THE FUTURE AGENDA.
AND I UNDERSTAND THERE'S, THERE WAS LEGISLATION THAT HAD SOME IM IMPACT ON THINGS, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE WAS, UM, THERE WERE SOME CRITICISMS OF THE PROCESS.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THOSE CRITICISMS WERE, BUT I, I WOULD JUST AGAIN PLEAD THAT IT, IF, IF THEIR CONCERN IS THAT IT'S TOO INVOLVED OR IS IT TOOK TOO LONG, OR IT WAS TOO EXPENSIVE OR SOMETHING, THERE ARE WAY THERE, THERE'S A VARIETY OF WAYS YOU COULD DO IT.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO THROW THE WHOLE THING OUT.
YOU CAN DO, UM, YOU COULD, YOU COULD DEFINITELY HAVE, UH, GREATER PUBLIC INPUT, UM, IN, IN A DIFFERENT WAY TOO.
SO, UH, I, I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO THINK ABOUT HOW YOU, HOW YOU'D LIKE IT TO GO.
SO KELLY, I GOT, WHEN WE GET TO THE DISCUSSION ABOUT FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS, ONE OF THEM WILL BE WHAT WE'D LIKE TO SEE NEXT YEAR IN THE RATE REVIEW.
WHAT WE CAN DO THIS YEAR IN TERMS OF GETTING MORE PUBLIC INPUT.
IF THEY DO AS PART OF THE BUDGET, RECOMMEND A RATE INCREASE, MAYBE WE CAN ADDRESS THAT, BUT ALSO GIVEN THAT IT'S UNLIKELY WE'RE GONNA HAVE A FULL RATE CASE THIS YEAR, GIVEN THE TIMING, WHAT WE WOULD WANT TO SEE IN A 2027, UM, RATE REVIEW MM-HMM
HOWEVER, WHATEVER THE RIGHT WORDS ARE MM-HMM
HAVE IT'S GOOD PLAN IN ADVANCE.
BECAUSE IF, YOU KNOW, FOR INSTANCE, IF YOU'RE GONNA HIRE A HEARING EXAMINER OR A CONSUMER, YOU, YOU NEED TIME FOR, YOU KNOW, FOR BIDS AND PROPOSALS AND, AND, UM, YOU KNOW, IT, UH, IF YOU, IF YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A RATE REVIEW IN 2027, IT'S PROBABLY NOT TOO EARLY TO BEGIN THINKING ABOUT HOW THAT'S GONNA WORK.
YEAH, JOHN, THANKS FOR, AND UM, YEAH, THANKS FOR PRESENTING TONIGHT.
I'M SORRY WE'RE KEEPING YOU UP SO LATE.
UM, YEAH, IT'S
YEAH, NO, I JUST HAVE A, A QUESTION.
I THINK IT'S BEEN BROUGHT UP A A LITTLE BIT IN TERMS OF LIKE, THERE'S LIKE THE FIX VERSUS VARIABLE COMPONENT, AND IT, IT SEEMS LIKE IT THAT THAT BECOMES A REALLY BIG, UM, A
[02:45:01]
REALLY BIG HOT BUTTON, UM, UH, ISSUE EVEN THOUGH THERE'S LIKE CERTAIN PROGRAMS LIKE THE CAP PROGRAM, BUT MAYBE IT DOESN'T GET EVERYBODY OR, OR WHATEVER.BUT IT, IT DOES, I'M JUST CURIOUS, LIKE SINCE YOU'RE IN A LOT OF THESE THINGS, LIKE IT'S, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT LIKE THE, THAT THE, THE FIXED COST OF THE SYSTEM IS BECOMING MORE AND MORE IS A BIGGER CHUNK OF, OF THE BILL.
LIKE IF YOU LOOK AT LIKE FERC DATA AND STUFF LIKE THAT IN TERMS OF LIKE WHAT UTILITIES ARE SPENDING LIKE FIXED VERSUS VARIABLE, IT WAS LIKE 25%, LIKE FIVE OR LIKE IN 2020 OR 2015, AND THEN IT'S GONE UP TO LIKE, OR HEADING TOWARDS 50%, UM, OR, OR WHATEVER.
AND SO, I MEAN, WHAT, WHAT ARE YOU SEEING IN OTHER, IN OTHER PLACES? IS THERE BEING MORE PUSH TOWARDS LIKE MORE OF THE FIXED PART? YEAH.
I MEAN, I WOULD SAY, UM, THROUGHOUT THE MIDWEST AND IN THE WEST, CUSTOMER CHARGES ARE STILL PRETTY LOW, UH, THERE, BUT THERE ARE RANDOM STATES AND RANDOM UTILITIES THAT ARE REALLY, ARE, ARE JACKING IT UP HIGHER.
AND I GUESS, UH, OVER THIS TIME PERIOD WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE, THE FIXED CHARGE FOR AUSTIN ENERGY WENT FROM $10 TO 1650.
AND I THINK MAYBE THERE'S AN AGREEMENT THAT IT GOES EVEN HIGHER THAN THAT MAYBE IN THE FUTURE.
SO THAT'S, I MEAN, THAT, THAT'S AN INCREASE THAT IS IN THAT, IN THAT COMPONENT LARGER THAN INFLATION.
AND, UM, IT, IT'S, IT'S ALL, IT'S ALL A TRADE OFFS.
AND SO JUST TO BE CLEAR, IF, IF THIS ISSUE IS NEW TO YOU, THIS IS NOT ABOUT INCREASED REVENUE TO THE UTILITY.
THIS IS ABOUT, UM, SORT OF A TRADE, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO REACH A BALANCE BETWEEN LOW USERS AND HIGH USERS AS WELL AS TRYING TO ENCOURAGE, UH, ENERGY CONSERVATION AND ALSO, UM, YOU KNOW, GIVING CUSTOMERS, UH, MORE OR LESS CONTROL OVER THEIR BILLS.
THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS GOING ON THERE.
UH, BUT, AND AGAIN, I WOULD, FROM A CONSUMER PERSPECTIVE, I DON'T VIEW THIS AS JUST A, A QUESTION OF, YOU KNOW, PUTTING ALL THE FIXED COSTS IN THIS THING AND PUTTING THE VARIABLE COSTS IN THAT THING, IT'S, IT'S, YOU REALLY NEED TO DO AN ANALYSIS OF HOW, UH, WHAT'S THE, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS CAUSING THESE COSTS AND WHAT IS THE, UH, PROPER BUCKET TO PUT INTO IT.
SO THAT'S, UH, YOU KNOW, I WOULD SAY THAT YOU, YOU SHOULDN'T LOOK AT IT THAT SIMPLISTICALLY, THAT'S NOT REALLY THE RIGHT WAY TO LOOK AT IT, IS THAT'S FIXED COSTS GOING IN A FIXED CHARGE.
RATHER, YOU NEED TO DETERMINE, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT IS BEING CAUSED, YOU KNOW, WHAT COSTS ARE BEING CAUSED BY YOU JUST BEING A CUSTOMER, WHAT COSTS ARE BEING CAUSED BECAUSE YOU USE MORE THAN THE AVERAGE ENERGY ON THE SYSTEM.
UM, YEAH, I MEAN, I WAS, I, I WASN'T IN A HIGHRISE APARTMENT, BUT I DID, I WAS IN AN APARTMENT FOR A WHILE AND I, YOU KNOW, I WAS FIRMLY IN THAT LIKE 300 AND SOME ODD KILOWATT HOURS PER MONTH, LIKE PAYING NOTHING.
NOW I'M IN A, NOW I'M IN A HOUSE AND, YOU KNOW, AUSTIN ENERGY'S PROBABLY HAPPY.
I'M A LITTLE BIT THE HIGHER TIERS, UM, THAT NOW, BUT LIKE, BUT YEAH, I MEAN, IT WAS IT, AND I, YOU KNOW, AND I, AND I THINK, AND I THINK THE UTILITY LIKES TO RAISE THE FIXED PART OF THE BILL BECAUSE THAT'S MORE REVENUE STABILITY FOR THEM, RIGHT? THAT'S MORE REVENUE THAT THEY CAN COUNT ON.
OBVIOUSLY THAT MAKES SENSE FROM A, YOU KNOW, REVENUE.
BUT I DO THINK, BUT I DO THINK THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE NUANCES IS A VERY GOOD POINT.
AND ONE OF THE REASONS I I MADE ABOUT, UH, ASSESSING THE CAP IS IT'S REALLY KIND OF MISLEADING TO OUR POLICY MAKERS IN THE CITY COUNCIL TO SAY IT'S 1650 FOR THE FIXED CHARGE BECAUSE WE HAVE A SUBSTANTIAL POPULATION OF LMI CUSTOMERS WHO PAY ZERO, RIGHT? RIGHT.
AND SO THAT CAN BE, WE WANT THEM TO CONVERGE ON SOMETHING SOLUTIONS THAT ARE MORE RAPIDLY DERIVED.
SO IT'S LIGHTER WEIGHT PROCESS FOR EVERYBODY, BUT YET GET THE RIGHT ANSWER BY NOT HAVING THIS SIMPLISTIC, OH, IT'S 1650, RIGHT? I MEAN HERE.
'CAUSE I THINK THAT I, I, I WILL BE PERSONALLY VERY DISAPPOINTED IF WE DON'T HAVE SOME KIND OF COMPARISON AND TIME SPENT ON HOW EFFECTIVE AND HOW INNOVATIVE OR HOW ELSE IT CAN BE ENHANCED THE CAP PROGRAM IS BECAUSE NOT ONLY IS IT ZERO CUSTOMER CHARGE, THEY GET A 10% DISCOUNT AND THAT HELPS THE SLOPE.
SO I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE NEED TO PUT DOWN AS ONE OF THE KEY ITEMS THAT WE WANNA SEE IN THE 2027.
UM, THIS OTHER ASPECT OF AN ANALYSIS THAT HAS, HOW MANY OF THE TIER ONE AND A TIER TWO ARE REALLY NOT LMI CUSTOMERS, I THINK IS A, SOME KIND OF ANALYSIS ON THAT BECAUSE YOU SAY, OH, WE NEED TO KEEP REDUCING TIER ONE, TIER TWO.
THAT MAY BE THE EXACT RIGHT, RIGHT THING, BUT HOW SUBSTANTIAL IS THE PROPORTION THAT IS NOT LMI AND HOW MUCH, WHEN YOU AUGMENT THAT WITH THE CAP PROGRAM, HOW MUCH OF THIS IS REALLY ADDRESSED AS WELL AS IT CAN BE? THOSE ARE QUESTIONS I HAVE.
I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S, UH, MUCH GREATER, WELL, I, I'LL JUST SAY THAT THE, THE NUMBER OF TIERS THAT AUSTIN ENERGY HAS COMPLICATES MATTERS.
I'M NOT SAYING IT'S BAD, I'M JUST SAYING IT, IT'S REALLY COMPLICATED TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S
[02:50:01]
GOING ON AND WHEN PEOPLE RE YOU KNOW, GO FROM ONE TIER TO THE NEXT, UM, IT, IT MAKES IT A LOT MORE COMPLICATED THAN YOU MIGHT THINK.MORE COMPLICATED THAN JUST ANALYZING, YOU KNOW, IF YOU JUST HAD ONE USAGE RATE AND, AND A FIXED CHARGE, THAT'S A LOT EASIER.
BUT HOW DO YOU HAVE AN INVERTED BLOCK STRUCTURE THAT ENCOURAGES CONSERVATION IF YOU DON'T HAVE AT LEAST THROUGH OR FOUR TIERS? RIGHT? YEAH, I, UM, YEAH, I'D SAY MOST UTILITIES HAVE THREE OR LESS
BUT, UM, IT, I THINK IN PAUL'S SLIDES HE HAD THREE THAT WERE SUGGESTED AT SOME POINT, LIKE IN HIS, NO, I THINK HIS LAST, UH, ICA REPORT SUGGESTED FOR MAYBE THAT WAS A COMPROMISE.
I MEAN, AND I'M NOT SAYING IT'S WRONG, I'M JUST SAYING IT'S COMPETENT.
IT MAKES IT COMP, IT MAKES IT HARD TO SORT OF NEGOTIATE AND TWEAK THINGS BECAUSE YOU TWEAK, YOU TWEAK ONE OF THE TIERS AND IT AFFECTS WHAT HAPPENS IN ANOTHER TIER.
THE QUESTION I HAD IS, I HEAR THIS STATEMENT THAT WE HAVE SO MANY CUSTOMERS, I DON'T KNOW IF SO MANY IS THE RIGHT TERM, BUT ENOUGH CUSTOMERS THAT ARE SERVED BELOW THE COST OF SERVICE.
AND ARE THERE COMPARISONS OF THAT TO OTHER UTILITIES? I MEAN, DOES A, A LOCAL CO-OP THAT HAS A FLAT RATE, DO THEY HAVE ZERO CUSTOMERS SERVED BELOW COST OR, YOU KNOW, SO WHAT'S THE BENCHMARKS ON BELOW COST AND ABOVE COST AND, WELL, I DON'T KNOW.
I, I, I DON'T KNOW THAT I'M FAMILIAR WITH, YOU KNOW, MAKING A JUDGMENT AS TO WHETHER ONE CUSTOMER IS ABOVE OR BELOW THEIR COST.
USUALLY YOU LOOK AT A KIND OF A, YOU KNOW, AS A GROUP.
I, I, UM, I, I, AND, BUT YOU, YOU COULD DEFINITELY DO, YOU KNOW, COMPARISONS WITH, I SAID, BUT YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE COMPARING WITH AN ELECTRIC CO-OP, YOU'RE DEALING WITH A MORE RURAL, UM, AREA, I ASSUME.
AND SO THEN YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A LOT MORE POLES AND WIRES PER CUSTOMER WITH THE CO-OP.
SO IT'S, UH, IT'S IMPORTANT JUST TO LOOK AT THE UTILITY YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AND SEE WHAT THEIR RATIO OF INVESTMENT TO CUSTOMERS IS.
UH, SO IN AN URBAN AREA, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A MUCH DIFFERENT SET OF DATA.
SO WHY DON'T WE BUTTON THIS UP AND MAYBE HAVE ANOTHER DISCUSSION NEXT TIME? YEAH, THAT SOUNDS GOOD TO ME.
[FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS]
ON FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS. UM, I'VE HEARD SOME GOOD ONES, LIKE THIRD PARTY OWNERSHIP.I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT DISCUSSION IN THE FUTURE.
UM, I GUESS SOONER OR LATER WE'LL HAVE AN UPDATE ON THE RF QS ON ADDITIONAL GEN RESOURCES.
FOR EXAMPLE, WIND AND SOLAR AND BATTERIES, THAT SOONER OR LATER, WELL, THERE WAS A, THERE WAS THE RFQ ON ALL OF THE ABOVE, RIGHT? LOCAL, I ASSUME.
YEAH, ALL RESOURCES ARE A PIECE.
R SHOULD IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WOULD COME UP AT SOME POINT ALREADY WITHOUT US ASKING FOR IT OR IT'S IN THE QUEUE? IT'S IN THE QUEUE.
I'M NOT PREPARED TO GIVE A DATE RIGHT NOW.
AND THEN ANOTHER THING, BUT WE DO HAVE IT ON THE LIST.
AND THEN ANOTHER THING IS FUTURE RATE REVIEWS, WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE IN THAT RATE REVIEW YEAH.
THAT WE CAN FOCUS ON THIS YEAR.
YEAH, WE CAN FOCUS, WE CAN TALK ABOUT WHAT WE CAN DO THIS YEAR, BUT ALSO WHAT WE COULD DO IN A FULLER RATE REVIEW, RIGHT? MM-HMM
WHAT ARE THE OTHER THINGS THAT PEOPLE WANNA SEE IN FUTURE ARGEN? ARE, ARE WE, UM, SO I, I'M, I'M INTERESTED.
THERE WAS A DISCUSSION ABOUT, I KNOW THERE WAS A GENTLEMAN HERE EARLIER FROM GEOTHERMAL, UM, I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN, BUT I DON'T, UM, I DON'T WANT TO BUTT UP AGAINST LIKE, IF THEY'RE PART OF A, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF IT, IF IT MESSES UP A POTENTIAL CONTRACT.
I DON'T WANT TO MESS ANYTHING UP LIKE THAT, BUT JUST IN TERMS OF HAVING BASIC INFORMATION ABOUT CAN GEOTHERMAL, UM, I KNOW IT CAN WORK IN OTHER PARTS OF TEXAS, BUT CAN IT WORK HERE IN TRAVIS LOCALLY? WELL, THEY, THEY HAVE A GEOTHERMAL PILOT, SO HOW ABOUT JUST AN UPDATE OF THAT? WELL, IF WE ASK FOR AN UPDATE ON THE GEOTHERMAL PILOT AND ASK IF HE, IF THEY'RE WILLING TO HAVE HIM TALK AND GIVE A PRESENTATION ON WHAT HE SEES AS A REALISTIC POTENTIAL FOR THIS AREA, YOU KNOW, ALL THE WAY OUT TO FAYETTE.
WE'VE GOT 10 SQUARE MILES OF FAYETTE.
WE'VE GOT A LOT OF LAND DECKER MM-HMM
THESE THINGS AREN'T VERY BIG, UH MM-HMM
SO, SO A GEOTHERMAL OVERVIEW AND STATUS OF THE PILOT.
AND IF, IF STAFF WOULD BE WILLING, PILOT AND POTENTIAL I THINK IS WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR.
SO STAFF WOULD BE WILLING TO INVITE HIM TO THAT.
[02:55:01]
INVITE HIM TO THAT.SO
ALRIGHT, I MISSED, DID SOMEBODY ASK ME SOMETHING? SURE.
ANYTHING THAT YOU'D LIKE TO SEE IN THE FUTURE? AGENDA ITEMS PROBABLY, BUT MY BRAIN SPREADS, SO I'LL EMAIL YOU.
WE'LL TRY TO GET CLOSED HERE PRETTY SOON.
UH, I'D LIKE TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE ECONOMICS OF PEAKERS AF AFTER TAKING INTO ACCOUNT ALL THE OTHER THINGS THAT WILL COME BEFORE 'EM, LIKE MORE BATTERIES AND MORE WIRES AND MM-HMM
I THINK THAT'S, I DON'T HAVE THAT FULLY, FULLY GERMINATED YET.
BUT I'LL, I'LL, I'LL BRING SOMETHING OVER TO YOU IN A COUPLE DAYS AND SURE.
IF WE COULD GET THAT ADDED AS A DISCUSSION ITEM.
AND, UH, NIKKI'S PROMISED ME THAT WE'RE STILL GONNA HAVE A MEETING ON, UH, STREAMLINING SOLAR.
SO, UH, FINDING WAYS TO STREAMLINE SOLAR AND ALSO TO, TO, UH, NOT HAVE THE SOLAR PROGRAM DRIVE AN UPGRADE OF BUILDING INFRASTRUCTURE.
IT SEEMS LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE, WE NEED TO SIMPLIFY IT.
MAYBE IDEALLY GET TO A SINGLE POINT OF CONTACT WHERE CONTRACTOR WORKS WITH ONE DEPARTMENT AT AE.
IT'S, IT SHOULDN'T BE THAT COMPLICATED, SO.
HOPEFULLY SHE CAN PUT TOGETHER A DISCUSSION WITH E-U-C-R-M-C AND MAYBE, UH, REPRESENTATIVES FROM SOLAR AUSTIN IS, IS MY MAIN GOAL.
BUT NDSD? N-D-S-D-I WAS ABOUT TO SAY.
IT'S AN ACRONYM? YEAH, IT'S AN ACRONYM.
OH, IS THAT THE PERMITTING DEPARTMENT? THAT'S THE PERMITTING DEPARTMENT.
WELL THAT'S, THAT'S A PRETTY GOOD LIST RIGHT THERE.
WELL, I JUST WANTED TO VERIFY, SARAH, YOU ALREADY PUT A ACTION ITEM ON THE AGENDA FOR NEXT TIME, OR DID YOU WELL, THAT WAS MY DISCUSSION OF, UM, RATE REVIEW AND BOTH FOR THIS, YOU KNOW, WHAT CAN BE DONE THIS YEAR AND NEXT YEAR, BUT MAKE IT AN ACTION ITEM SO THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY, I DON'T KNOW IF WE'LL BE READY TO TAKE ACTION, BUT AT LEAST OKAY, GREAT.
SO WE'LL BE POSTED DIRECTION ON THAT.
AND SO, L ARE YOU REMINDER I NEED THE POSTING LANGUAGE AND WE SHOULD BE POSTED IT THOUGH, SPONSOR AND BACKUP MATERIAL BY APRIL 27TH, OR IT WILL NOT BE ON THE MAY AGENDA.
YOU ALREADY HAVE ALL OF THAT FROM LAST MONTH.
YOU CAN JUST RECYCLE FROM LAST MONTH.
I'LL SEND IN SOMETHING NEW OUT.
I'LL, I'LL SEND SOMETHING TO YOU.
WE'RE NOT GONNA HAVE ANOTHER PRESENTATION FROM JOHN REQUESTING AN AGENDA ITEM ON PERMITTING, BECAUSE IF SO, I'LL JOIN YOU ON THAT REQUEST.
WELL, WE'RE PLANNING A MEETING.
IF, IF THE MEETING DOESN'T OCCUR, THEN WE'LL HAVE TO HAVE AN AGENDA ITEM AND DISCUSS IT OURSELVES.
BUT KABA, YOU'RE INCLUDED IN THE MEETING INVITATION WHEN IT COMES OUT.
I, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE UC MEETING JUST SINCE THE OTHER ONE HAS BEEN, IT NOT HAPPENING.
I THINK, UH, I, I'M IN FAVOR OF JUST PUTTING IT HERE AND WE CAN ALWAYS REMOVE IT IF WE ARE ABLE TO DO IT OFFLINE.
YOU GUYS WORK THIS OUT AFTERWARD.
WE THANK JOHN FOR HIS TIME, BUT I DON'T THINK WE NEED ANOTHER NO, WE DON'T NEED A THIRD.
NO, WE CAN HAVE INTERNAL, WE DON'T NEED A PRESENTATION, WE JUST NEED A DISCUSSION.
AND YOU'LL, YOU'LL HANDLE THAT? YEAH.
SO WITH THAT IT IS, UM, CAN I, SORRY.
UM, AGAIN, I DON'T WANT TO, I DON'T WANNA DO ANYTHING THAT MESSES UP CONTRACTING, BUT I WOULD ALSO LOVE TO HEAR AT SOME POINT WHEN IT'S APPROPRIATE FROM, UM, YOU KNOW, WE WE'RE, WE'RE JUST GETTING INVOLVED WITH THE SPACE POWER ON THE ONSITE BATTERIES, BUT WE ALSO SIGN THIS BIG CONTRACT WITH JUPITER.
AGAIN, I DON'T, I DON'T WANNA INVITE THEM TO SPEAK IF IT'S GONNA MESS UP WILL.
THEY'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF LIKE CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS OR PUT AUSTIN ENERGY IN A, IN A WEIRD PLACE.
BUT WHEN ALL THAT STUFF IS FINALIZED, I'D LOVE TO, YOU KNOW, HEAR FROM THEM DIRECTLY, JUST, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE JUPITER'S APPARENTLY GONNA BUILD THIS BIG A HUNDRED MEGAWATT BATTERY AND I'D LOVE TO, YEAH, WELL IT COULD BE ALL ENERGY STAFF TOO, OR, BUT WE COULD INVITE THEM AS WELL, BUT I JUST THINK IT'D BE COOL TO HEAR MORE ABOUT IT.
THE TECHNOLOGY AND HOW IT'S GONNA BE USED.
BUT AGAIN, THEY'RE PROBABLY STILL DOING LIKE PERMITTING.
I DON'T WANNA MESS ANYTHING UP, BUT AT SOME TIME IN THE FUTURE.
SO IT'S 9 0 5 WE'RE ADJOURNED.