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[00:00:05]

THERE YOU GO.

AND THERE, IT SOUNDS ABOUT RIGHT.

I SEE 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.

UM, SO, UH, UNLESS, UH, THERE'S ANYTHING THAT NEEDS TO BE DISCUSSED ON THE FRONT END.

I AM HAPPY TO JUST START FORMALLY OUR MEETING.

UM, ARE WE, ARE WE GOOD TO GO, LYNN? I'M NOT, UH, I ALWAYS ASK FOR YOU'RE ALL CLEAR.

WE'RE GOOD TO GO.

YES.

YES.

OKAY, GREAT.

AND GOOD EVENING, EVERYONE.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE.

MY NAME IS LOUIS SILVER ON, I AM CHAIR OF THE CITY OF BOSTON ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION, AND I CALL THE ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION MEETING TO ORDER IT'S JULY 14TH.

AND THE TIME IS 6:08 PM.

COMMISSION COMMISSIONERS ARE ATTENDING THIS MEETING VIRTUALLY VIA A WEBEX AND THIS MEETING IS BEING RECORDED.

SO I'M GOING TO CALL THE ROLL.

PLEASE UNMUTE YOUR PHONES OR YOUR COMPUTERS.

ANSWER OUT LOUD, YOUR NAME, AND THEN MUTE YOUR DEVICE ONCE YOU'VE SAID HERE OR PRESENT.

SO I'M GOING TO GO IN THE ORDER.

IT APPEARS ON THE AGENDA.

SHARE SOBER ON PRESENT.

VICE-CHAIR OVER HERE.

OKAY.

SECRETARY LERNER IS ABSENT COMMISSIONER DANBURG HERE.

COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, COMMISSIONER KALE HERE.

MISSIONARY LAURIE LOOKS LIKE IT'S ABSENT.

UM, COMMISSIONER LEVIN, PRESIDENT COMMISSIONER MCCORMICK, COMMISSIONER STANTON PRESENT, AND THEN COMMISSIONER ATTENDANT.

YOU READY? WE HAVE A QUORUM THAT IS QUITE A WORD THESE DAYS.

I'M GLAD TO SEE EVERYONE HERE.

UM, SO FIRST STEP WE HAVE CITIZENS COMMUNICATION, UM, BECAUSE NO ONE'S SIGNED

[1.EXECUTIVE SESSION]

UP.

WE CAN MOVE STRAIGHT TO OUR FIRST ITEM ON THE AGENDA, WHICH IS TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION.

LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHTENED OUT.

ONE MOMENT.

IF YOU'LL GIVE ME A SECOND TO PULL UP THE MAGIC CLOSED SESSION WORDS.

ALL RIGHT.

WELL THAT DIDN'T WORK.

APOLOGIES COMMISSIONERS.

I THOUGHT I HAD IT RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME AND BACKED THAT.

LET'S SEE.

I SHOULD HAVE A BACKUP.

OKAY, HERE WE GO.

SO HONOR, AGENDA ITEM ONE.

WITHOUT OBJECTION.

THE ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION WILL GO INTO CLOSED SESSION TO TAKE UP ONE ITEM PURSUANT TO SECTION 5, 5, 1 0.07.

ONE OF THE TEXAS GOVERNMENT CODE.

THE ETHICS REVIEW COMMISSION WILL CONSULT WITH LEGAL COUNSEL ON LEGAL ISSUES.

RELATED TO THE FOLLOWING COMMISSION MAY GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION TO DISCUSS A COMPLAINT FILED BY JOSEPH CASINO AGAINST OTTO SWINDLER, WHICH COMPLAINT ALLEGES VIOLATIONS OF CITY CODE CHAPTER TWO DASH TWO, CAMPAIGN FINANCE SECTIONS 2 2 2 3 2 AND 2, 2 3, 2 B AND A TWO TO THREE THREE.

IS THERE ANY OBJECTION TO GOING INTO AN EXECUTIVE SESSION ON THE ITEMS ANNOUNCED, LOOKING AROUND, SEEING AND HEARING NONE.

THE COMMISSIONER WILL NOW GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION.

THE TIME IS 6:12 PM UH, COMMISSIONERS.

YOU WILL, UH, EXIT THIS MEETING IN JOINED THE MEETING VIA THE OTHER LINK THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE EMAIL PROVIDED EARLIER TODAY.

AND I WILL SEE YOU ALL ON THE OTHER SIDE.

I THINK WE'RE JUST WAITING ON COMMISSIONER A YUCA, UM,

[00:05:03]

WHILE WE'RE WAITING ON HER TO POP ON, I'M JUST GONNA, UH, QUICKLY CHECK, UH, THE CONNECTION FOR THE PARTIES FOR THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM.

OUR FINAL HEARING, UH, MR. CASINO AND MR. SWINDLER, ARE YOU HERE? FEEL FREE TO UNMUTE YOURSELVES AND SAY HERE? YES.

MR. JEREMY, ERIC.

GREAT.

THANK YOU.

COMMISSIONER ATTENDANT.

YOU CAN NOW WANTED TO MAKE SURE THERE WEREN'T TECHNICAL ISSUES BEFORE WE STARTED.

UM, ONCE THEY SEE COMMISSIONER TENNEY UCAS CAMERA POP-UP I WILL BRING US FORMALLY BACK IN OPEN SESSION.

HELLO.

GREAT.

[2. FINAL HEARING Discussion and possible action regarding the following: A complaint filed by Joseph Cascino against Otto Swingler, which complaint allegesviolations of City Code Chapter 2-2 (Campaign Finance), Section 2-2-32 (Reporting of Direct Campaign Expenditures), Section 2-2-32(B), and Section 2-2-33 (Disclosure Statement Required).]

OKAY.

SO WE ARE NOW OUT OF CLOSED SESSION.

THE TIME IS 7:03 PM.

IN CLOSED SESSION.

WE TOOK UP AND DISCUSSED LEGAL ISSUES RELATED TO A COMPLAINT FILED BY JOSEPH CASINO AGAINST OUT OF SPRINKLER, WHICH COMPLAINT ALLEGES VIOLATIONS OF CITY CODE SECTIONS 2, 2 32 TO 2 32 B AND 2, 2 33.

SO NOW THAT WE ARE BACK IN OUR OPEN SESSION, WE CAN MOVE ON TO ITEM TWO ON THE AGENDA, WHICH IS THE FINAL HEARING BY JOSEPH CASINO GUN START-UP SPRINKLER THAT I JUST DESCRIBED.

UM, SO I WILL ASK EACH OF THE PARTIES, COMPLAINANT, AND RESPONDENT TO SIMPLY ANNOUNCE THEMSELVES STATE YOUR NAME, UM, AS APPEARING.

UM, AND THEN I'M GOING TO, UH, DESCRIBE OUR FINAL HEARING PROCEDURES.

SO FIRST COMPLAINANT, UM, IF YOU COULD ANNOUNCE YOURSELF, UH, YOUR NAME, UH, COMPLAINANT HERE, UH, JOSEPH CASINO.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AND RESPONDENT, IF YOU COULD ANNOUNCE YOURSELF, PLEASE.

YEAH.

HI, UH, AUTO SWINDLER HERE.

OKAY.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU BOTH VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

UM, I'M GOING TO DO A OVERVIEW OF THE PROCEDURES.

UM, I BELIEVE THAT EACH OF YOU PRIOR TO THE FINAL HEARING RECEIVED A COPY OF THE RULES OF THE COMMISSION, UM, AND HOW WE CONDUCT THESE HEARINGS AND, UH, AN OUTLINE OF WHAT THOSE PROCEDURES ARE, BUT FOR THE BENEFIT OF EVERYONE HERE, UM, I WILL DO A WALK.

SO THIS IS A FINAL HEARING UNDER THE CITY CODE SECTION 2 7 4 5, WHICH, UH, SETS FORTH OUR PROCEDURES, THE SIGNS COMPLAINING IT'S AUTO SWINDLER WAS FILED WITH THE CITY CLERK IN ACCORDANCE WITH SECTION 2 74 ONES.

SO THE EXCEPTION OF THE IDENTIFICATION OF A DATE ON ONE OF THE VIOLATION FORMS GROUP PAGES, UH, PRELIMINARY HEARING WAS PREVIOUSLY HELD WHERE THE COMMISSION DETERMINED THAT REASONABLE GROUNDS, IT MAY EXIST TO BELIEVE THEIR VIOLATION WITHIN THE COMMISSION'S JURISDICTION, DID OCCUR AND PROCEED TO A FINAL HEARING.

THE ISSUE AT THE FINAL HEARING IS WHETHER A VIOLATION WITHIN THE COMMISSION'S JURISDICTION HAS THE COMPLAINANT CARRIES THE BURDEN OF PROOF TO ESTABLISH A VIOLATION.

THE COMMISSION WILL MAKE ITS DECISION BASED ON THE PREPONDERANCE OF THE CREDIBLE EVIDENCE PRESENTED BY THE PARTY.

THE COMMISSION WILL ALSO CONSIDER THE ADMISSIONS, IF ANY OF THE RESPONDENTS SWINGER, IF THE RESPONDENT AGREES THAT A VIOLATION HAS OCCURRED, THE RESPONDENT MAY SO STATE AND THE COMMISSION MAY CONSIDER THE APPROPRIATE SANCTION OR PROSECUTION.

THE COMPLAINANT HAS THE RIGHT TO OPEN AND CLOSE THE PRESENTATION OF EVIDENCE AND ARGUMENT RESPONDENTS MAY, BUT IT'S NOT REQUIRED TO PRESENT AN ARGUMENT, PRESENT EVIDENCE AND ARGUMENT SUPPORTING ITS DEFENSE.

THE COMPLAINANT MAY BE PERMITTED TO PRESENT A REBUTTAL EVIDENCE ON ANY DEFENSE RAISED IN THE FIRST RESPONDENTS PRESENTATION.

THE CHAIR HAS THE OPTION OF ALLOWING THE PARTIES TO PRESENT SHORT CLOSING STATEMENTS, SUMMARIZING THE EVIDENCE AND WHAT THE PARTIES BELIEVE THE EVIDENCE PROVE OR FAILED.

WE'RE GOING TO BEGIN WITH OPENING STATEMENTS.

THE COMPLAINANT IS GOING TO BE ALLOWED 10 MINUTES TO ADDRESS AND EXPLAIN ALL THE ALLEGATIONS IN THE COMPLAINT AND RESPONDENT OR COUNSEL WOULD BE ALLOWED 10 MINUTES TO RESPOND.

THEN ALL WITNESSES, THE COMPLAINANT AND RESPONDENT MUST MAKE THEIR STATEMENTS UNDER OATH.

THE COMMISSION MAY ALSO ASK QUESTIONS OF THE COMPLAINANT RESPONDENT OR ANY OTHER WITNESSES PRESENT.

UM, THE PARTIES ARE INSTRUCTED TO RESPOND TO QUESTIONS AND TO REFRAIN FROM INTERJECTING COMMENTS OR INTERRUPTING THE CONDITIONERS OR THE OTHER PARTIES, PRESENTATION OF EVIDENCE, THE CHAIR REQUESTS THAT, UH, ANY QUESTIONS, UM, NOT LEAD A WITNESS, WE'D ACTUALLY DON'T HAVE WITNESSES.

I DON'T BELIEVE SO.

I'M GOING TO SKIP THAT PART.

UM, THEN AFTER THE PRESENTATION OF EVIDENCE, THE COMMISSION WILL DELIBERATE AND COME TO A DECISION.

AND THEN IF THE COMMISSION DETERMINES THAT ONE OR MORE OF THE VIOLATIONS AS OCCURRED, THE COMMISSION IS GOING TO STATE THE COMMISSION'S FINDINGS AND WRITINGS AND IDENTIFY EACH CODE SECTION OR CHARTER

[00:10:01]

PROVISION THAT BEEN VIOLATED.

AND IF WE DETERMINED THAT A VIOLATION HAS OCCURRED, UM, WE'LL PROCEED TO A DETERMINATION OF APPROPRIATE SANCTIONS IN ACCORDANCE WITH CITY CODE SECTION TWO DASH 7 4 8 2 DASH 7 4 9.

UM, SO, UH, UNLESS THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS WE'LL PROCEED TO THE OPENING STATEMENT.

I DID WANT TO KIND OF MAKE A BRIEF COMMENT BEFORE WE DO GO TO THE OPENING STATEMENTS IS JUST BIG PICTURE.

HOW, UM, THE PROCEEDINGS GOING TO GO.

SO 10 MINUTES FOR THE COMPLAINANT, 10 MINUTES FOR THE RESPONDENT, IT IS YOUR CHOICE TO ON HOW YOU USE THAT TIME.

AS I EXPLAINED, THERE'S OPPORTUNITY FOR REBUTTAL.

UM, IF YOU WANTED TO, UH, SAVE SOME OF YOUR TIME TO HAVE ADDITIONAL COMMENTS AT THE END OF ONE OF THE PRESENTATIONS.

UM, AND THEN AFTER THAT, UH, WE'LL OPEN THE FLOOR FOR COMMISSIONERS TO HAVE A Q AND A PERIOD.

UM, I'M GOING TO RESPECTFULLY ASK, IT'S NOT A WRITTEN REQUIREMENT IN OUR ROLES, BUT I'M GOING TO RESPECTFULLY ASK THAT WE LIMITED TO ABOUT 20 MINUTES AND I'M GOING TO ASK OUR TIMEKEEPER TO KIND OF HOLD US TO THAT.

UM, AND THEN AFTER OUR Q AND A PERIOD, I WILL ASK IF WE HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS AND I'LL GIVE A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME FOR PEOPLE TO THINK REALLY HARD.

UM, BUT THEN WE'LL MOVE TO DELIBERATIONS AT WHICH POINT QUESTIONS FOR THE PARTIES ARE GOING TO BE OVER AND WE'LL DISCUSS, UH, THAT'LL BE THE TIME WHERE WE CAN OPENLY DISCUSS THIS COMPLAINT AND ANY MOTIONS WE MIGHT TO MAKE CRYSTAL QUICK, ANY QUESTIONS, UM, BEFORE WE JUMP IN AND QUESTIONS FROM THE PARTIES TO, UH, PROCEDURAL QUESTIONS, HAPPY TO TAKE.

OKAY.

SEEING HEARING NONE, THEN I'M GOING TO RECOGNIZE THE COMPLAINANT, MR. CASINO, IF YOU WANT TO STATE YOUR NAME AGAIN.

UM, AND THEN WHENEVER YOU GET STARTED WITH YOUR STATEMENT, I BELIEVE OUR SECRETARY WILL START A TIMER FOR 10 MINUTES.

SO WHENEVER YOU ARE READY, MR. CASINO, THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.

UH, THIS IS JOE CASINO, THE COMPLAINANT, UH, APPRECIATE YOU AND ALL THE MEMBERS OF THIS COMMISSION, UM, TAKING THIS UP AND, UM, GIVING IT THE SERIOUSNESS THAT IT REQUIRES.

UM, I WON'T TAKE 10 MINUTES.

I PROBABLY WON'T EVEN TAKE FIVE AT RISK OF BEATING A DEAD HORSE, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, IN MY VIEW, A GO-FUND ME WAS SET UP WITH THE INTENT OF RAISING, UM, $30,000 FOR PRO PROPERTY BILLBOARDS.

UM, ON THIS SITE, UH, THERE WAS NO DISCLOSURE STATEMENT AND DURING HERS WERE LISTED AS ANONYMOUS.

UM, THIS IS AN APPARENT VIOLATION OF SECTIONS TWO DASH TWO DASH 32, 2 DASH TWO DASH 33 OF THE CITY'S CODES, CAMPAIGN FINANCE AND STATE LAW.

UM, THIS GO FUND ME WAS THE ACTIVATED BY THE ORGANIZER AFTER REACHING ITS $30,000 GOAL.

UM, SO I, AS, AS I KNOW, THE COMMITTEE ASKED ME TO TRY AND MAKE A GOOD FAITH EFFORT, UM, TO FIND A COPY OF THAT ORIGINAL, UH, PAGE, WHICH I DID, UH, BUT I WAS NOT ABLE TO, UM, TO, TO, TO FIND IT, BUT I DID MAKE THE EFFORT FOR SURE.

UM, BUT NONETHELESS, UM, THERE IS A SCREENSHOT WHICH I'VE SUBMITTED, UM, AS EVIDENCE THAT SHOWS THAT THE $30,000 GOAL WAS RAISED, BUT THAT THE FUNDRAISER WAS, UM, DEACTIVATED.

UM, AND THOUGH NOW 4 0 4, UM, IF IT'S GOOGLED THE DESCRIPTION STILL SAYS THAT THE LEAD ORGANIZER, MR. SWINDLER, SOME $10,000, HIS OWN UNREPORTED MONEY INTO THE PROJECT, UM, AT THE HEARING LAST MONTH, IT WAS FLAMED.

THE MONEY RAISED WAS DONATED TO SAVE AUSTIN NOW IN MR. SWINDLERS NAME, UM, ON THE ADVICE OF COUNSEL, UM, UH, I HAVE RE I HAVE ATTACHED, UM, SAVE AUSTIN NOW'S LAST REPORT, WHICH WAS FILED ON APRIL THE 23RD.

UH, MR. SWINDLERS NAME IS ON PAGE 190, UM, LISTED AS HAVING DONATED, UH, I BELIEVE $9,844, UM, WHICH, UM, WOULDN'T ACCOUNT FOR THE OTHER 30,000 THAT, UM, THAT SCREENSHOT ALLEGES WAS, OR I MEAN, STATES WAS RAISED.

UM, AND, UH, W WOULD ALSO JUST ADD, I MEAN, THAT ALSO IS CLOSE TO $10,000, UM, AND MAYBE THAT'S WHAT MR. SPANGLER WAS REFERRING TO IF MR. SWINDLER CAN PRODUCE, UH, THE NAMES AND OCCUPATIONS OF ALL THE PEOPLE WHO HAD DONATED, UM, YOU KNOW, IN, IN, UM, TO THE GOFUND ME, UM, IN HIS EVIDENCE, WHICH, UH, WAS NOT SHARED WITH ME BEFOREHAND, FOR REASONS I DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND.

UM, BUT NONETHELESS, UM, UM, I MEAN THAT MONEY, I THINK, SHOULD HAVE BEEN RETURNED TO ITS DONORS WE'LL STOP.

UM, YOU KNOW, AND THERE WERE SOME CONTRADICTORY ANSWERS, UH, THAT BOTH SWINDLER AND HIS COUNSEL GAVE LAST TIME AROUND AS TO WHETHER OR NOT HE DONATED TO THE GOFUNDME ITSELF HIMSELF, AND AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS EXPRESSED ADVOCACY.

UM, HE ADMITTED

[00:15:01]

TO HAVING WRITTEN THAT HE HAD DONATED $10,000, UM, BUT STATED THAT IT WAS A LIE AS A MARKETING PLOY.

UM, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I, I, WE JUST KIND OF NEED TO KNOW WHERE THE $30,000 NUMBER COMES FROM WHERE THAT MONEY WENT.

UM, AND I MEAN, I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, UM, I MEAN, I, I SUBMITTED EVIDENCE, UM, ALL THAT HAS BEEN REQUESTED OF ME, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, AGAIN, THE $9,844 ON PAGE 190 THAT MR. SWINDLERS DONATION WAS, UM, YOU KNOW, THE SCREENSHOT THAT STATES THAT $30,000 GOAL HAD BEEN RAISED.

UM, THE LINE THAT STATES HE HAD SPENT $10,000 WAS OWED MONEY.

AND, UM, I ALSO INCLUDED THE LINK TO THE GOFUNDME TERMS OF SERVICE AS REQUESTED.

UM, BUT ALSO JUST TO KIND OF SAVE MONEY, I WOULD SAY AT THE TIME, EXCUSE ME, UM, FOR EVERYBODY READING IT, UM, YOU KNOW, THE ONE LINE I COULD FIND ABOUT POLITICAL CONTRIBUTIONS, UH, WAS QUOTE, YOU WILL COMPLY WITH ALL RELEVANT AND APPLICABLE LAW AND FINANCIAL REPORTING OBLIGATIONS, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO LAWS AND REGULATIONS RELATING TO REGISTRATION, TAX, REPORTING, POLITICAL CONTRIBUTIONS AND ASSET DISCLOSURES FOR YOUR PROJECT, UM, BY MR. SWINDLERS OWN ADMISSION LAST TIME AROUND, UM, HE BELIEVED THAT, YOU KNOW, UM, YOU KNOW, AND HE ON THE ADVICE OF COUNSEL WAS GOING TO TURN OVER THE NAMES AND, AND THE DONATIONS TO SAVE AUSTIN.

NOW, UM, IF THAT HAD HAPPENED AGAIN, IT REMAINS YET TO BE SEEN, BUT LIKE EVEN SO, UM, IT WAS IN VIOLATION OF, OF THE GOFUNDME TERMS OF SERVICE.

SO, UM, THAT'S REALLY ALL I HAVE TO SAY.

I MEAN, WE'VE, WE'VE DISCUSSED THIS FOR A VERY LONG TIME AND, UM, YOU KNOW, I LOOK FORWARD TO, TO FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS ISSUE, SO THANK YOU.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. CASINO.

UM, NOW, UH, LET'S, UH, JUST GET FROM THE SECRETARY, HOW MUCH TIME IS REMAINING IN CASE YOU WANT TO USE IT BRIEFLY ON MUTE YOURSELF, SECRETARY LEARNER, UH, GIVE US A MINUTE, UH, ROUGHLY 5 25, 20 25.

OKAY.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

AND NOW, UM, FOR THE RESPONDENT, UM, IF YOU COULD STATE YOUR NAME, INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND THEN, UH, FEEL FREE TO BEGIN YOUR 10 MINUTES OF STATEMENT WHENEVER YOU LIKE, AND THE SECRETARY KEEP THE TIME.

SO IT IS TWO, YOU RESPONDED.

SURE.

YEAH.

THIS IS A AUTO SWINDLER.

AND, UM, YEAH, I, UH, WOULD JUST RESPOND THAT THE DISCLOSURE STATEMENT, I GUESS, KIND OF GOING DOWN THE LIST OF WHAT, UH, JOE MENTIONED THE DISCLOSURE STATEMENT, UM, WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN PUT ON THE GO FUND ME BECAUSE, UM, THE, UH, TH THAT WASN'T POLITICAL ADVERTISING PERIOD, SO NO DISCLOSURE STATEMENT IS NEEDED.

I DON'T THINK THAT, THAT THE GO FUND ME HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THAT TWO, TWO DASH 33.

THERE WAS A VERY CLEAR, UM, DISCLOSURE STATEMENT PUT ON THE BILLBOARDS, UH, THAT SAID, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT, UM, THIS WHOLE, THIS WHOLE, UM, THING, IT WAS PREDICATED ON TRYING TO FOLLOW THE, UH, VERY COMPLICATED, UH, POLITICAL CONTRIBUTION LAWS THAT I FOUND OUT WERE IN PLACE, YOU KNOW, KIND OF HALFWAY THROUGH RAISING THIS MONEY ON GIVE FUND ME.

AND SO I WENT TO PAINSTAKING EFFORTS COORDINATING WITH THE SAVE AS TO NOW COUNCIL TO MAKE SURE WE FOLLOWED THE RULES.

THE FACT THAT WE STILL DID NOT FOLLOW THE RULES.

I, I, FRANKLY I'M PERPLEXED.

UM, WE, YOU KNOW, MADE SURE THAT ALL THE MONEY THAT WAS RAISED WAS GIVEN TO SAVE AUSTIN NOW SAVE AWESOME OUTPUT, YOU KNOW, POLITICAL ADVERTISING PAID FOR BY SAY BOSTON NOW.

AND IT WAS TO THE TREASURER'S NAME.

IT WAS ON EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE BILLBOARDS WAS, YOU KNOW, 25 OF THESE AROUND TOWN.

UM, THE REASON THAT NO, OF THE, NONE OF THE DONORS ON MY GO FUND ME PAGE WERE LISTED UNTIL AFTER THIS.

UM, YOU KNOW, WITH THESE, ALL THESE CALLS WAS, I WAS THE ONE WHO DONATED THE MONEY TO SAY LESS THAN AN HOUR.

UM, I PROVIDED WEN WITH, UH, PROOF OF THE RECEIPT, UH, LIKE, LIKE MY RECEIPT OF THE MONEY THAT WAS RAISED.

AND I THINK IT WAS LIKE 29,700 LEN CAN CERTAINLY CONFIRM OR SHARE THAT CHAIRED THE, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, SHARE WHAT I SENT HER IF SHE WANTS.

UM, AND THAT MATCHES, I THINK, I THINK IT'S OFF BY A FEW HUNDRED BUCKS AND I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHY, BUT IT MATCHES VERY CLOSELY TO THE EXACT, UH, DONOR, UH, CONTRACTS TOTAL, UH, THAT I HAD PROVIDED SAVE AUSTIN NOW BACK.

YEAH.

IN, UH, EITHER LATE MAY OR EARLY JUNE.

AND I CAN'T REMEMBER WHEN, BUT, UM, THE, THE, ALL THE DONOR'S NAMES ADDRESS PLACES OF WORK AMOUNTS CONTRIBUTED WERE ALL TRACKED.

UM, SO THAT'S BEEN SHARED WITH, WITH LYNN AS WELL.

UM, SO I GUESS FROM MY PERSPECTIVE,

[00:20:01]

YOU KNOW, STARTING TO GO FUND ME AS A CONCERNED CITIZEN, I'VE NEVER BEEN POLITICALLY ACTIVE PERIOD THOUGHT THIS WAS A VERY IMPORTANT, YOU KNOW, NOT A LOT OF ATTENTION GETS RAISED TO THESE LOCAL ELECTIONS.

UM, AND, AND FRANKLY, THAT IS NOT, NOT A LOT OF VOTER TURNOUT.

UM, TYPICALLY SPEAKING, UM, I, YOU KNOW, THIS HAS BEEN A PAINSTAKING PROCESS, UM, $2,500 INTO THIS AND MY ATTORNEY, WHICH IS WHY HE'S NOT ON THIS CALL ANYMORE, BECAUSE IT'S BEEN A VERY COSTLY FROM A TIME PERSPECTIVE AND, UM, JUST DOLLARS TOO.

I FEEL LIKE I DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG.

AND WE WENT TO GREAT LENGTHS TO TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL THE BILLBOARDS HAD THE DISCLOSURE STATEMENT AND IT WAS NEEDED.

UM, YOU KNOW, I DONATED THROUGH THE SAVE AUSTIN MT.

PORTAL, ALL THE MONEY THAT I HAD RAISED, YOU KNOW, WHEN ASKED, I IMMEDIATELY GAVE ALL THE NAMES FROM THE GO FUND, ME TUESDAY, BOSTON NOW, UM, OVER SIX WEEKS AGO, SEVEN WEEKS AGO AT THIS POINT, UM, THOSE NAMES AND THE AMOUNTS HAVE BEEN SHARED WITH WHEN, UH, AS REQUESTED, UM, YOU KNOW, QUITE, QUITE HONESTLY, I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE.

YOU KNOW, WE'RE IN THE 12TH HOUR OF TALKING ABOUT THIS.

UM, I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHAT I DID WRONG.

SO I GUESS I WOULD JUST ASK, ASK THE GROUP, UM, YOU KNOW, I I'VE SORT OF FEEL LIKE I'M BEING PENALIZED FOR WANTING TO BE AN ACTIVE MEMBER OF THE, THE CITY I GREW UP IN AND, YOU KNOW, QUITE FRANKLY, IT'S VERY UNMOTIVATING TO EVER PARTICIPATE IN A CITY ELECTION PERIOD GOING FORWARD.

AND SO I GUESS I WOULD JUST ASK FOR SOMEONE TO TELL ME, HEY, WHAT DID I REALLY DO WRONG HERE? AND I'LL, I'LL LEAVE IT AT THAT.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. SWINDLER, UM, SECRETARY LEARNER, WHAT IS THE TIME LEFT IF WE WANT, UH, I'M FOR CLOSING GRIP, BUT OKAY.

5, 5 55.

THANK YOU.

SO, ALL RIGHT.

UM, SO I'LL GIVE A BRIEF OPPORTUNITY, UH, MR. CASINO, IF YOU WANT, UH, UH, REBUTTAL TIME, YOU FIVE MINUTES AND 22 SECONDS LEFT, UM, OR WE CAN PROCEED STRAIGHT TO Q AND A, AND THEN, UH, IF YOU, IF YOU DO OFFER REBUTTAL, MR. CHRISTINA, I'M GOING TO GIVE MR. SPANGLER AN OPPORTUNITY TO KIND OF CLOSE OUT THAT TIME, BUT, UM, JUST WANTED TO GIVE IT TO YOU MR. CASINO, ANY, ANY ADDITIONAL STATEMENTS IN REBUTTAL? OKAY, JEREMY, I, I WOULD JUST, UM, BRIEFLY ADD THAT.

UM, I MEAN, IT WAS VERY CLEARLY A POLITICAL AD IN STATEMENT.

I MEAN, THE TITLE OF THE PAGE WAS, UM, REINSTATE AUSTIN, CAMPING BAN SAVE OUR CITY, WHICH WAS THE ISSUE ON THE BALLOT OF PROPERTY.

I BELIEVE THAT REQUIRED, UM, SOME SORT OF DISCLOSURE STATEMENT.

AND, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, JUST TO READ AGAIN, SECTION TWO DASH TWO DASH 32 SECTION EIGHT, SAYS THAT A PERSON WHO MAKES ONE OR MORE DIRECT CAMPAIGN EXPENDITURES AND A CITY ELECTION THAT AN AGGREGATE MEET OR EXCEED $500 SHALL REPORT, YOU KNOW, FULL NAME AND ADDRESS OF THE PERSON.

UM, YOU KNOW, IF THE PERSON WHO MAKES THE EXPENDITURES INDIVIDUAL IT'S THEIR OCCUPATION, EMPLOYER, OR FULL NAME AND ADDRESS ALL, ALL OF THAT.

I MEAN, IT'S ALL, IT'S ALL IN THE CODE.

AND I MEAN, EVEN IF IT WAS IN MR SWINDLERS NAME, THEN, YOU KNOW, UM, I MEAN, IT, IT, IT, IT NEEDED TO HAVE THE, I MEAN, I'M SURE MORE PEOPLE, PEOPLE DONATED OVER $500, YOU KNOW? I MEAN, IT, IT JUST, IT JUST, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK IT'S IN LINE WITH, WITH THE CODE, SO THAT'S ALL I WOULD HAVE TO SAY.

OKAY.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

UM, THEN MR. SWINDLER, I'LL GIVE YOU AN OPPORTUNITY.

YOU HAVE SIX MINUTES, THE SPECIFIC VIOLATION THAT I BELIEVE I'M ABSOLUTELY MOST CLEAR ON.

UM, WE SPENT NO MONEY PERIOD CREATING A FREE TO MAKE, GO FUND ME PAGE.

AND SO I WANT TO BE REALLY CLEAR THAT THE, THE, THE REASON THAT YOU WANT TO HAVE A DISCLOSURE STATEMENT IS YOU DON'T WANT, YOU KNOW, ONE VERY WEALTHY OR EXTRAORDINARILY WEALTHY CITIZEN OR INDIVIDUAL OR COMPANY TO BE ABLE TO SWAY ELECTIONS.

AND I TOTALLY GET THAT.

UM, IT WOULDN'T, IT WOULDN'T BE FAIR FOR, FOR A BILLIONAIRE TO JUST PAINT EVERY BUILDING, YOU KNOW? YES.

THIS WAY.

UH, AND I UNDERSTAND WHY THE DISCLOSURE WOULD BE NEEDED.

THAT IS FOR WHEN YOU'RE SPENDING MONEY.

JUST TO BE CRYSTAL CLEAR.

IF I, IF I WANT TO GO SCREAM, WHEN EVERY CORNER OF THE STREET WHO I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD VOTE FOR THAT'S FREE SPEECH, GO FUND ME, CHARGE ME $0 TO, TO CREATE THIS AT IT.

WASN'T AN AD.

IT WAS A, A REQUEST TO RAISE MONEY.

SO, FIRST OF ALL, IT WASN'T AN AD.

SECOND OF ALL, UH, WE DIDN'T SPEND ANY MONEY.

SO NO, JUST THE DISCLOSURE STATEMENT IS SPECIFICALLY FOR WHEN YOU'RE SPENDING MONEY FOR POLITICAL, UH, ADVERTISEMENT.

AND SO SINCE WE SPENT $0 WHERE BOTH MYSELF AND THE ATTORNEY THAT WAS HELPING ME WITH THIS, WE ARE CRYSTAL CLEAR THAT WE DID NOT PILATE THIS, THIS DISRESPECT LETTER IS STILL THERE.

IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'VE GOT

[00:25:01]

IT.

YOU GOT A LITTLE CUT OFF.

OKAY.

I WAS TRYING TO FOLLOW THE RULES ON THIS.

I DONATED TO SAVE AUSTIN ALLEN.

THEY PUT THE DISCLOSURE STATEMENT THAT THEY NEEDED TO HAVE SINCE THEY PURCHASED THE BILLBOARDS, UM, AND PUT THEM ON, YOU KNOW, ON THERE, WE TRY TO FOLLOW THE RULES.

SO I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW THAT JOE YOU'RE REQUIRED UNDERSTANDING THAT THE CODE THERE IS NO MONEY WAS SPENT.

UM, THAT'S THE ONLY REASON THAT DISCLOSURE STATEMENTS MADE IT.

I CAN MAKE A FREE SIGN IN ST ON THE STREET CORNER WITH IT.

AND THERE'S CERTAINLY NO, JUST GO.

YOUR STATEMENT NEEDED, UM, I DON'T KNOW, FEW A FREE POSTING, JUST LIKE A FACEBOOK POST OR AN INSTAGRAM OR A TWEET OR A GO FUND ME POSTS.

IT'S FREE TO CREATE.

THERE'S NO DISCLOSURE STATEMENT NEEDED TO DO THAT.

I'M DONE SAME ON TIME FOR LATER.

OKAY.

WELL THAT IS, SO I APPRECIATE THAT.

UM, SO, UH, THOSE ARE THE STATEMENTS, AND NOW I'M GOING TO OPEN IT UP FOR Q AND A, UM, FROM OUR COMMISSIONERS.

SO, LIKE I SAID, COMMISSIONERS, I'M GOING TO SET ASIDE ABOUT 20 MINUTES.

IT'S ABOUT 7 24.

NOW I'LL TRY TO KEEP AN EYE ON THE CLOCK MYSELF.

I'M GONNA RELY ON MY SECRETARY TO DO MOST OF THE TIMEKEEPING.

IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE PRECISELY 20 MINUTES.

UM, IT'S JUST, UH, A FRIENDLY REQUEST.

AND I SEE COMMISSIONER GREENBERG WITH HER HAND UP FIRST.

SO COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, GO AHEAD.

SO I HAVE QUESTIONS FOR MR. SWINDLER.

UM, THE GO FUND ME TERMS OF SERVICE, SAY, UM, THE CAMPAIGN ORGANIZER, YOU AS A CAMPAIGN ORGANIZER REPRESENT WARRANT AND COVENANT, THAT ALL INFORMATION YOU PROVIDE IN CONNECTION WITH THE CAMPAIGN OR BENEFICIARY IS ACCURATE, COMPLETE, AND NOT LIKELY TO DECEIVE REASONABLE USERS.

DID YOU ADHERE TO THAT REQUIREMENT? YEAH, I MEAN, I'M SURE I DIDN'T READ THE GO-FUND ME, UM, UH, RULES AND REGULATIONS AS A POSITIVE THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE EVER USED GO FROM ME HAVE NOT READ THEM.

BUT, UM, I, I, I THINK THAT, THAT THE MAJORITY OF WHAT I WROTE WAS FROM MY HEART THAT, HEY, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A BIG DEAL TO OUR CITY.

UM, THIS, THIS LAW THAT THE COUNCIL HAD EVER TURNED WITHOUT VOTER APPROVAL IS QUITE FRANKLY, RUINED IT OVER THE PAST 18 MONTHS.

LIKE, LET'S DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS.

LET'S, LET'S RAISE SOME MONEY AND LET'S PUT THESE BILLBOARDS UP AND LET'S JUST TRY TO GET PEOPLE TO THE POLLS.

YOU I'M SURE CERTAIN PEOPLE MORE THAN I ASKED.

OH, OKAY.

GOTCHA.

BUT, UM, WITH ONLY 20 MINUTES FOR Q AND A, I THINK WE WANT TO JUST STICK TO ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS.

OKAY.

IS MY, IS MY READING OF, OF DETAILED 30 PAGE DISCLOSURE LANGUAGE ON GET A FUND TO BE RELEVANT TO THIS? JUST TO BE CLEAR, I'M JUST ASKING IT'S THE 20 MINUTES.

UM, JUST ASK, NOBODY'S READ THE DISCLOSURE STATEMENT AND GO FUND ME SINCE IT, SINCE IT WAS WRITTEN.

I MEAN, THE C'MON, YOU'RE THE ONE WHO BROUGHT UP THE DISCLOSURE STATEMENT.

WHEN YOU SAID THAT THE CONTRIBUTIONS WERE THE PERSONAL PROPERTY OF YOU, THE RECIPIENT.

SO YES, WE DID LOOK AT IT, BUT MY CONCERN IS THAT THE PAGE SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED THAT YOU WOULD SPENT YOUR OWN MONEY FOR ARTWORK AND VINYL.

UM, WAS THAT ACCURATE, COMPLETE, AND NOT LIKELY TO DECEIVE REASONABLE USERS? WELL, THAT'S, HE IS, AS I EXPLAINED SPECIFICALLY IN OUR LAST SIX HOUR CALL, THE SECOND SIX HOUR CALL, I VERY SPECIFICALLY USE THAT AS THE MARKETING PLOY TO SAY, HEY, I'M GOING TO GET THIS GOING.

LIKE, WE'VE GOT A LITTLE BIT OF A WANING IN OUR SALES.

LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE KIND OF KICK-STARTING THIS, UM, I VERY SPECIFICALLY ADDRESS THIS.

THAT'S ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

I DID NOT, DID NOT SPEND ANY MONEY.

UM, I, I WROTE THAT AS LIKE, HEY, IF WE DON'T GET ANYTHING GOING ON, I'M PROBABLY JUST GOING TO WRITE THIS CHECK FOR 10 GRAND MYSELF AND BE HAPPY TO DO THAT FOR A GREAT CAUSE.

OKAY.

I'LL TAKE THAT AS A NO.

UM, SO GO FUND ME SAYS THAT 29, 6 40 WAS RAISED THE DEPOSITS TOTALED 29 98, BUT THE CONTRIBUTIONS ON SAVE AUSTIN NOW, FINANCE REPORT SHOWS $9,844 FROM AUTO SWINDLER.

SO WHAT HAPPENED TO THE REST OF THE MONEY? UH, IT WAS ALL DEMANDED TO SAY BOSTON NOW, AND THEY CAN CONFIRM THAT THAT'S NOT MY RESPONSIBILITY TO DO, BUT IT WAS ALL I'LL CONFIRM UNDER OATH THAT I DONATED ALL THE MONEY TO SAVE AUSTIN NOW, PER THE SPREADSHEET I PROVIDED.

BUT WHEN I'M DOING ON MONDAY UNDER YOUR NAME, THAT'S CORRECT.

YEAH.

OKAY.

DO YOU KNOW WHO ERIC IS? UH, ERIC IS MY MIDDLE NAME.

THAT'S PROBABLY ME.

I DUNNO IF I TYPED IN THE BOXES WRONG, BUT, BUT ERIC LIVES AT A DIFFERENT UNIT.

NO, ERIC IS MY, LITERALLY MY MIDDLE NAME.

IT'S ON MY DRIVER'S LICENSE AND I DON'T, YOU KNOW, MY LAST QUESTION IS KENDALL BROWN AND JOHN HENRY

[00:30:01]

SWINDLER ARE LISTED ON THE GOFUNDME PAGE AS MEMBERS OF THE FUNDRAISE FUNDRAISING TEAM.

YOU KNOW WHO THOSE ARE AS WELL.

RIGHT? YEAH.

I ADDED THEM AS ADMINISTRATORS TO LIKE, YOU KNOW, HELP OUT.

THEY DIDN'T ASK TO BE INVOLVED OR WANTING TO BE INVOLVED THAT HAD NO CHOICE.

I JUST SORT OF ADDED THEM ON THERE.

SO IT WASN'T REALLY THEIR THING.

SO THEY WERE PART OF THE FUNDRAISING TEAM AND THEY WOULD ABSOLUTELY NOT AS WHAT I JUST SAID, YOU JUST CLICK A BUTTON AND YOU CAN ADD WHOEVER YOU WANT TO IT.

I JUST ADDED, YOU KNOW, MY BROTHER AND MY GIRLFRIEND.

THAT'S, THAT'S MY RELATIONSHIP WITH THOSE TWO PEOPLE.

SO AGAIN, ABOUT THE ACCURACY COMPLETENESS, AND NOT LIKELY TO DECEIVE REASONABLE USERS, WHAT ABOUT THAT BOYS NAMES THAT AREN'T REALLY PART OF THE TEAM? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? I ADDED MY GIRLFRIEND AND MY BROTHER TO THE GO FUND ME PAGE IN ORDER FOR THEM TO, YOU KNOW, HELP LIKE SPREAD THE WORD.

UM, YOU KNOW, THEY DIDN'T ASK TO BE INVOLVED.

THEY'RE LIKE MY TWO CLOSEST PEOPLE TO ME.

AND I DON'T, I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE POINT OF NATURE, THIS QUESTION, AND YOU'RE PAINTING ME IN A CORNER.

LIKE I'M, I'M, UH, I WAS A CONCERNED CITIZEN.

IT RAISED SOME MONEY HALFWAY THROUGH RAISING THE MONEY, DONATED IT TO SAY BOSTON NOW TO TRY TO FOLLOW THE RULES.

I MEAN, TO TRY TO PIN ME AS SOMEBODY WHO MALICIOUSLY DIDN'T FOLLOW THE, YOU KNOW, 19 PAGES OF, OF 8.5 AND THE GO-FUND ME PARAGRAPH IS JUST RIDICULOUS.

I CAN'T QUITE UNDERSTAND WHY WE WOULD EVEN SPEND A SECOND ON THE SUBJECT.

SURE.

SO IF ANYBODY'S USED THEIR FUND LEAVING, UH, I'M GOING TO JUST JUMP IN REAL QUICK.

UM, I WANT TO MAKE TWO COMMENTS.

ONE IS THAT, UM, I HOPE THAT THE QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ARE RESPECTFUL FROM COMMISSIONERS AND PARTIES ALIKE AND TO, UM, JUST AS A GENERAL LINE OF INQUIRY.

I'M NOT SURE THAT, UM, UH, QUESTIONING WHETHER OR NOT A PARTIES COMPLIED WITH THE TERMS OF SERVICES ON A WEBSITE IS, UM, PARTICULARLY RELEVANT.

WE DON'T HAVE LIKE A SUPER STRICT EVIDENTIARY RELEVANCE RULE, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, I, I JUST WANT TO HAVE THAT, HAVE US BE MINDFUL OF THAT.

MOVING FORWARD WITH THAT.

I SEE COMMISSIONER KALE, AND THEN GO TO COMMISSIONER DAMPER.

SO COMMISSIONER KALE.

UM, I JUST, I HAVE ONE QUICK QUESTION FOR MR. SWINDLER.

UM, I WAS WONDERING, UM, WHY INSTEAD OF LIKE MAKING ONE LARGE CONTRIBUTION TO SAVE AUSTIN, NOW IT'S IN SEVERAL CHUNKS.

SURE.

YEAH.

I'D BE HAPPY TO EXPLAIN THAT.

UM, WE INITIALLY, WHEN THIS WAS GOING TO BE MY THING AND WITH NO INVOLVEMENT OF SAY BOSTON NOW, WHICH WAS, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE THE ORIGINAL INTENT, THE REASON I, THE ONLY REASON TO GIVE THE MONEY TO SAY BOSTON NOW WAS IN AN INTENTION TO TRY TO FOLLOW THE RULES.

YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY LET ME KNOW, HEY, YOU'VE GOT TO PUT DISCLOSURE STATEMENTS ON THIS STUFF.

AND THEN REALIZING THAT, OH, IF YOU, IF YOU BUY SOMETHING THAT COSTS MORE THAN 500 BUCKS, YOU'VE GOT TO CREATE A PACK.

AND THAT COSTS A LOT OF MONEY.

IT'S A BUNCH OF PAPERWORK.

IT'S A BUNCH OF TIME.

I WAS KINDA LIKE, GOSH, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO THAT.

THIS IS RIDICULOUS.

I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW MUCH WORK GOES INTO CREATING THIS POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE.

I'M JUST TRYING TO BUY A FEW BILLBOARDS FROM MY FRIENDS THAT WANTED TO BUY THAT.

I'M LIKE, WHY CAN'T WE JUST BUY THIS? YOU KNOW? SO WE, WE PAINSTAKINGLY TRIED TO FOLLOW THE RULES.

I DONATED ALL THE MONEY TO JUST SAY BOSTON.

NOW THERE WAS THREE DIFFERENT, UM, PURCHASES OF BILLBOARDS.

ONE, UH, ONE WAS WITH, UH, WITH, WITH ONE COMPANY AND THE OTHER ONE WAS WITH A DIFFERENT COMPANY.

WE HAD A THIRD THAT WAS, UH, WITH A DIFFERENT COMPANY.

SO WE WENT THREE DIFFERENT PURCHASES.

THAT'S WHY IT WAS DONATED IN DIFFERENT, UM, LIKE CHUNKS, I GUESS, AND SAY, BOSTON OUTCOME CONFIRM A LATIN AMISH HIM UNDER OATH.

YEP.

AND WHEN YOU SAID WE HAD THREE DIFFERENT PURCHASES, WHO OR WHOM ARE YOU REFERRING TO AS WE LIKE, SAY BOSTON NOW, AND MYSELF, I GUESS JUST TRYING TO COORDINATE TO FOLLOW THE RULES, YOU KNOW, LIKE I WAS KIND OF LIKE, HEY, I RAISED THIS MONEY.

I WANT TO BUY THIS BILLBOARDS.

UM, YOU KNOW, IF I DONATE IT, SAY BOSTON NOW, AND THEN SAY BOSTON OUTFITS, IT'S ALL THE CORRECT POLITICAL, UH, YOU KNOW, DISCLOSURE STATEMENTS ON THE BILLBOARDS.

WE THOUGHT WE WERE FOLLOWING THE RULES.

AND QUITE FRANKLY, LIKE THE REASON I WOULDN'T HAVE GIVEN MY DONOR'S NAMES, YOU KNOW, THE VAST MAJORITY OF THESE WERE ON, UM, THE MAJORITY OF THESE WERE ON THE GOFUNDME, BUT EVEN THE ANONYMOUS ONES ARE, ARE INCLUDED IN MY SPREADSHEET BECAUSE MYSELF AS THE ADMINISTRATOR HAD ACCESS TO THAT, UM, BUT THE, THE REASON I WOULDN'T HAVE DONE IT, IT, THEIR NAMES AS THEY WERE, THEY DIDN'T DONATE MONEY TO SAVE AUSTIN NOW.

SO LIKE THROUGH THE PORTAL THAT SAY BOSTON NOW RAISED THE MONEY THROUGH, I WAS THE ONLY ONE, LIKE, YOU KNOW, GIVING, YOU KNOW, GIVING MONEY TO THEM SO THAT, I GUESS WE THOUGHT WE WERE COVERED.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THEY'VE OBVIOUSLY HAD THE LIST OF NAMES AS OF A COUPLE MONTHS AGO.

DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? UM, IT ACTUALLY, IT ACTUALLY KIND OF RAISED

[00:35:01]

A COUPLE OF OTHER QUESTIONS FOR ME, UM, SORT OF GOOGLING THROUGH THE FINANCE REPORT.

AND I GUESS I WAS WONDERING ABOUT THE TIMING.

I'M SURE I CAN FIND THE DATES IN THE REPORT.

UM, THE COORDINATION LEVEL BETWEEN YOU AND SAY BOSTON NOW, WHEN SAY BOSTON NOW WAS PURCHASING THOSE BILLBOARDS, WHAT WAS THE LEVEL OF COORDINATION, UM, ON THOSE DIFFERENT CHUNKS OF PAYMENTS TO SAVE AUSTIN NOW? UM, IT WAS A PHONE CALL THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, I BASICALLY SAID, HEY GUYS, LIKE 10, I HEARD THAT THERE'S THIS PACK.

I'M GOING TO FORM NO IDEA HOW TO DO THAT AND ARE INTEREST IN DOING THAT.

DON'T WANT US TO SPEND THE MONEY TO DO THAT, OR THE TIME CAN I JUST DONATE THIS MONEY TO Y'ALL AND WE ALL, WE ALL PUT IT TOWARDS BILLBOARDS.

I THINK THIS IS A GREAT IDEA.

AND THEY WERE LIKE, YEAH, SURE.

YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'VE ALREADY RAISED THE MONEY FOR IT, YOU KNOW, GIVE IT TO US, WE'LL HANDLE THE, YOU KNOW, THE POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE PART OF IT.

AND WE'LL PUT OUR PAC NAME ON THE BILLBOARD SO THAT WE FOLLOW THE RULES.

I MEAN, THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF DOING THIS WAS TO FOLLOW THE RULES, QUITE FRANKLY.

SO IT'S JUST STARTED, LIKE, I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT, UM, THAT I'M SPENDING ALL THIS TIME AND EFFORT, ENERGY AND MONEY TO, YEAH.

SO WE, WE THOUGHT WE'D DO THIS FOR THE PURE PURPOSE OF, OF FOLLOWING THE RULES.

SO VERY, VERY LITTLE COORDINATION, JUST TO BE CRYSTAL CLEAR THAT I ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION, I'LL CALL THEM DOWN INTO THE MONEY THEY CONTRACT WITH THE BILLBOARD COMPANIES.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT TO DO.

SO MY QUESTION THEN IS, AND I'M SORRY ABOUT MY DOGS.

THEY'RE REALLY OBNOXIOUS.

UM, UH, MY QUESTION IS, SO IT LOOKS LIKE, UM, YOU MADE A DONATION ON MARCH 30TH AND KENDALL GROUND MADE A DONATION ON MARCH.

YOU MAJORS OF 9,844.

KENDALL BRANDON MADE HERS ON MARCH 30TH OF 7,156.

AND THEN ERIC SWINDLER THAT BEING YOU AGAIN, MADE ONE ON TECH, UH, ON, UH, APRIL 6TH OF 10,345.

SO WHAT WAS, UM, WAS THE GO FUND ME, UH, WHEN DID THE GO FUND ME CLOSED DOWN? AND WAS IT RUNNING IN TANDEM WITH THIS, WITH THESE THREE DONATIONS THAT I, THAT I SPOTTED TO SAVE AUSTIN NOW? SO WHEN DID, WHEN DID YOU GO FUND ME OFFICIALLY SHUT DOWN, I GUESS MAYBE THAT PROBABLY THAT DATE IS IN SOME OF THE INFORMATION.

AND I, I JUST WANTED TO KNOW, NO, I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY HAS THAT DATA INCLUDING MYSELF.

I MEAN, AS SOON AS WE RAISED THE MONEY, THERE WAS KIND OF LIKE NO REAL NEED TO CONTINUE RAISING MORE.

SO A GOAL OF SHUTTING IT DOWN WAS TO STOP THE MONEY COMING IN.

WE RAISED 30 GRAND IN LIKE 48 OR FOUR DAYS, YOU KNOW, I, I ONLY HAD IT ORIGINALLY LIKE 17 BASKET DOLLARS WHERE THE BILLBOARDS TO BUY.

I WAS FRANKLY WORRIED THAT WE WEREN'T GOING TO BE ABLE TO PUT THE MONEY TO WORK.

SO WE CLOSED THE GOFUND MADE TO AVOID RAISING ADDITIONAL MONEY.

OBVIOUSLY HE LIVES IN THE MIDST OF VOTER TURNOUT AND IMMENSE INTEREST IN THIS SUBJECT.

SO I WAS KIND OF WORRIED, HEY, IF WE GET UP TO 50 OR $60,000 ANOTHER WEEK, WHERE ARE WE GOING TO PUT THE MONEY? YOU KNOW, LIKE I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO.

SO THAT'S THE REASON TO SHUT IT DOWN.

THE REASON FOR IT TO THERE BEING AN ERIC SWINDLER, JUST TO BE CRYSTAL CLEAR.

THAT WAS MY, UH, THERE'S NO TRICKERY GOING ON.

MY DEBIT CARD LITERALLY SAYS EVERYBODY'S RINGLER.

MY CREDIT CARD SAYS AUTO FOREMAN, WINKLER.

I HAVE TWO MIDDLE LANES.

ERIC IS LEGAL.

ERIC WAS MY LEGAL FIRST NAME.

I'VE ALWAYS GONE BY AUTO.

WHEN I WAS IN COLLEGE, I CHANGED IT FROM AUTO OR FROM ERIC TO AUTO SOME OF MY DRIVER'S LICENSE STUFF OR MY, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST, I JUST PUT DOWN ON THE FORM, WHAT CARD I USE AND, UM, KENDALL, UH, NOW YOU BRING THAT UP.

KENDALL'S, YOU KNOW, SHE'S MY ROOMMATE AND MY GIRLFRIEND, AND WE WOULD LIVE TOGETHER AND THEY HAVE USED HER CARD BECAUSE MY CREDIT CARD WAS MAXED OUT.

I MEAN, A $10,000 DONATION I NEEDED TO LIKE USE HER CARD TO MAKE THE DONATION AND THEN OTHER COULD'VE BEEN MOTOR OR REGULAR, A CHECK OR SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, WHENEVER MY CARD WASN'T, WASN'T FILLED UP.

YEAH.

AND I, I DIDN'T, I DIDN'T MEAN TO ASK PERSONAL QUESTIONS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

I'M JUST KIND OF TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE, YOU KNOW, SORT OF THE TIMING BETWEEN THE GO FUND ME AND SAY BOSTON NOW.

YEAH.

AND I THINK YOU ACTUALLY MAY HAVE ANSWERED MARY.

YOU MAY HAVE ANSWERED JOE'S QUESTION OR, OR MAYBE EVEN BETSY'S QUESTION THOSE, THOSE THREE AMOUNTS.

IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU, YOU MIGHT HAVE THEM MORE ACCESSIBLE THAN ME, BUT IT WAS LIKE 10,000, 9,000 AND 7,000.

DID I HEAR YOU RIGHT? YES.

PRETTY QUICK.

I THINK IT'S IN THE 28, 20 $9,000 RANGE PLUS OR MINUS, YOU KNOW, THERE MAY HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW, 1500 BUCKS THAT I MADE VARIOUS OTHER THOUSAND DOLLARS PERSONAL DONATIONS TO SAVE AUSTIN NOW.

AND WHATEVER I HAD LEFTOVER, UH, FROM THIS, I, I CERTAINLY DONATED THE REMAINDER PLUS, YOU KNOW, TWO OR 3000 OF MY OWN

[00:40:01]

MONEY.

SO I, I CERTAINLY GAVE, YOU CAN GO THROUGH THE, THE RECORDS I'VE PUT NOW.

I CERTAINLY GAVE OVER THE, OVER THE $30,000 THAT I RAISED, UH, TUESDAY, BOSTON NOW, YOU KNOW, LIKE I, I GAVE THOSE THREE DONATIONS YOU'RE REFERRING TO PLUS TWO OR THREE OTHER LIKE THOUSAND OR $1,500 DONATIONS BECAUSE IT WAS SOMETHING I CARED A LOT ABOUT.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT.

COMMISSIONER DAN BERG.

YEAH.

FIRST, I MEAN, IT'S KINDA, IT'S KINDA SETTLED DOWN, BUT I JUST WANT TO SAY TO MR. CASINO AND MR. SWINDLER AND EVERYBODY ELSE WHO COMES HERE, IF WE'RE ASKING A QUESTION THAT DOES NOT MEAN WE'RE ACCUSING ANYBODY, WE REALLY ARE JUST TRYING TO GET INFO.

UM, SO ON THAT POINT I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS DOES GO FUND ME WHOLE BACK ANY OF THE MONEY AS ANY KIND OF A FEE OR CONVENIENCE COST OR WHATEVER.

AND THEN THE OTHER QUESTION IS, WELL, LET ME, LET ME JUST ASK THAT FIRST.

AND I'LL ASK THE OTHER ONE IN A MINUTE.

DOES GO FUND ME, HOLD BACK.

ANY PORTION OF THE DONATIONS AS I HAD, I HEARD ONE DAY I HAD ONE DONATION IN LIKE THE THREE OR $400 DOLLAR RANGE.

AND THIS MAY BE WHY MY SPREADSHEET IS SLIGHTLY OFF BY LIKE TWO OR 300 BUCKS FROM THE, UM, FROM THE AMOUNT IN MY, UH, CHECKING ACCOUNT SCREENSHOT THAT I SHARED.

SO THE CHECKING ACCOUNT SCREENSHOT, I THINK IS LIKE $400 LESS THAN THE SPREADSHEET I SHOWED, YOU KNOW, IT'S 29,600 INSTEAD OF 29,200 OR WHATEVER THE MATH SHAKES OUT YOU'LL HAVE THE INFO.

BUT, UH, ONE OF MY DONORS, I THINK SAW THE CREDIT CARD STATEMENT AND THOUGHT OF IT AS A FRAUDULENT CHARGE.

SO SHE DISPUTED IT IS A GO FUND.

ME RETURNED HER MONEY.

I HAD ALREADY SPENT IT DONATED TO SAVE US NOW.

SO THAT WAS WHY MY NUMBERS WERE OFF, BUT I DIDN'T PAY ANYTHING TO BE TOO, TOO.

UM, I DIDN'T PAY A FEE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT TO LIST SOMETHING ON GOOD FUND ME.

OKAY.

YOU CAN ASK APOLLO CONTRIBUTE.

AMBER, GO AHEAD.

OKAY.

AND THEN, THEN MY, MY OTHER QUESTION, UH, MS. , DO YOU KNOW WHAT A BUNDLER IS? AND DO YOU THINK OF YOURSELF AS ONE? UH, I, I WOULD NEED THE DEFINITION.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS, UH, UH, COMMISSIONER ELEVEN'S HAND, I THINK, GO AHEAD.

OH YEAH.

A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS FOR MR. CASINO.

UM, CAN YOU IDENTIFY A SINGLE DIRECT CAMPAIGN EXPENDITURE THAT MR. SLINGER MAY WELL, UH, BY HIS OWN ADMISSION, UM, YOU KNOW, SAY HE HAD BEEN ELECTIONEERING AND MAKING EXPENDITURES TO HELP PASS PROPERTY.

COULD YOU DEFINE THAT? I'M GOING TO ASK YOU NOT TO INTERJECT OR INTERRUPT OR ASK QUESTIONS IT'S UM, FOR COMMISSIONERS TO ASK AND FOR PARTIES, INTENSIFY TO ANSWER, UM, GO AHEAD, COMMISSIONER 11.

SO MR. CASINO, YOUR ALLEGATION YOU'RE ONE OF THEM, IS THAT MR. SWANGER VIOLATED TWO DASH TWO DASH 32, RIGHT? YES, SIR.

WHICH IS WHICH, UH, IS ABOUT REPORTING DIRECT CAMPAIGN EXPENDITURES, CORRECT? YES, SIR.

AND DO YOU HAVE ANY, ANY, CAN YOU IDENTIFY ONE EXPENDITURE THAT MR. SWINGER MADE ONE DIRECT CAMPAIGN EXPENDITURE AS IT'S DEFINED IN THE CUPBOARD THAT YOU ALLEGED HE VIOLATED? WELL, I MEAN, HE DONATED, WHICH IS AN EXPENDITURE.

SO YOU THINK THAT A CONTRIBUTION ISN'T AS A DIRECT CAMPAIGN EXPENDITURE? I MEAN, IF YES, I DO.

YES, SIR.

OKAY.

ALL RIGHT.

UM, DO YOU CONTEND THAT, UH, MR. SWINGER ACTUALLY HIMSELF PURCHASED ANY BILLBOARDS? YES OR NO? UH, YES, SIR.

I DO.

HE HIMSELF PURCHASED IT.

YES, SIR.

I DO.

AND HOW MUCH DID HE PAY FOR THAT? I MEAN, TH LIKE IT WASN'T $10,000 ANY, HE SAID THAT BY HIS OWN ADMISSION AND THE, UM, I MEAN, THAT'S LISTED IN MY BUT $10,000.

YES, SIR.

OKAY.

AND TO PAY THAT, WELL, HE ALSO HAD, UM, COORDINATED THAT ON THE PHONE WITH SAVE AUSTIN NOW.

OKAY.

BUT THAT'S NOT HIM MAKING THE EXPENDITURE THAT SAVE AUSTIN.

NOW, DO YOU AGREE? UM, NO, SIR.

I DON'T.

SO YOU THINK THAT WHEN A CON CONTRIBUTOR GIVES MONEY TO A PACK AND THE PACK SPENDS THAT MONEY, THE CONTRIBUTOR IS MAKING A DIRECT CAMPAIGN EXPENDITURE? WELL, I MEAN, HE DID, HE DIRECTLY ASKED THEM TO MAKE THAT EXPENDITURE.

SO YES, I WOULD SAY THAT

[00:45:01]

HE WAS MAKING BAD DIRECTION.

THAT'S NOT WHAT I ASKED MR. CASINO.

IT'S AN IT, HE GETTING THE MONEY TO SAVE AUSTIN.

NOW, DO YOU AGREE THAT THAT'S TRUE? YES, I DO, BUT OKAY.

AND THEN, AND THEN LET ME, UH, YOU'VE ANSWERED MY QUESTION.

I, I DON'T HAVE A TON OF TIME HERE AND THEN SAVE AUSTIN NOW PAID FOR THE BILLBOARD.

TRUE OR FALSE.

UM, I MEAN, IT SEEMS AS SUCH.

YES, SIR.

OKAY.

AND YOU ARE CON YOU'RE TELLING THIS COMMISSION THAT, THAT SITUATION RIGHT THERE IS MR. SWINGER MAKING A DIRECT CAMPAIGN EXPENSE? YES, SIR.

I AM.

OKAY.

THAT'S GOOD TO KNOW.

HE COORDINATED WITH THEM AND THAT IS WHY I INTEND THAT BY HIS OWN ADMISSION.

OKAY.

THAT'S ALL I'VE GOT.

THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT.

UH, SECRETARY LEARNER AND COMMISSIONERS.

I JUST WANT EVERYONE TO KNOW I'M NOT GOING TO BE HYPER STRICT.

I KNOW THAT WE ARE COMING UP ON ABOUT 20 MINUTES, BUT I'M GOING TO BE A LITTLE BIT LENIENT ON THAT TIME WHEN THE SECRETARY LEARNED TO GO AHEAD.

OKAY.

JUST REAL QUICK, JUST FOLLOWING ON, UM, UH, COMMISSIONER LEVIN'S LINE OF QUESTIONING.

SO, SO MR. CASINO, IF, IF THEY, IF THEY'VE ASKED IT NOW HAD SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT BILLBOARDS AREN'T EFFECTIVE, WE'RE GOING TO, WE'RE GOING TO DO RADIO ADS.

HOW, WHERE WOULD YOU FALL ON THIS? WELL, I MEAN, IT'S A, IT'S THE SAME SORT OF THING.

I MEAN, AT THE END OF THE DAY, I MEAN, UM, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, HE HAD COORDINATED WITH THEM, YOU KNOW, UM, AND HE HAD, IT WAS, IT WAS HIS, UM, AND HIS DONATION IS AN EXPENDITURE, BUT IF HE, BUT THE C, SO WHAT I'M HEARING YOU SAY IS OPERATIVE.

I THINK THE OPERATIVE ELEMENT, WHAT I'M HEARING FROM YOU IS THAT HE GAVE HIM MONEY FOR AN EXPRESS PURPOSE THAT SAVE AUSTIN.

NOW, ALMOST LIKE HE'S CONTRACTING, SAVE AUSTIN NOW TO DO SOMETHING THAT HE WANTS.

YES.

MA'AM WOULD IT BE DIFFERENT FOR YOU? IF HE JUST SAID, HEY, SAVE US NOW.

HERE'S MONEY.

WE RAISED MONEY.

WE WANT THEM TO GO TOWARD THAT PROPERTY ADVOCACY.

UM, EVEN, EVEN SO, I MEAN, THAT'S STILL ELECTIONEERING, WHICH, UM, WOULD FIT, UM, UNDER DEFINITIONS THAT WOULD VIOLATE THE CITY CODE.

AND IF HE JUST SAID, HEY, SAVE OUT.

I LIKE WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

HERE'S $30,000, WHICH YOU ALL WITH IT? UM, NO, I MEAN, I WOULD, I WOULD STILL SAY AT THE END OF THE DAY, UM, THAT, YOU KNOW, IT WAS, IT WASN'T, IT WAS ELECTIONEERING.

AND, UM, EVEN IF HE DIDN'T MENTION PROPERLY IS WHAT I'M SAYING.

I MEAN, JUST TRYING TO, I WOULD ALSO ADD THAT PROPERTY IS MENTIONED, UM, YOU KNOW, UM, ON THE FUNDRAISER ITSELF, BUT I ALSO THINK THAT HE WOULDN'T SOLICIT, UM, YOU KNOW, ANY OF HIS OWN MONEY.

I THINK THE OPERATIVE QUESTION HERE IS ABOUT HOW MUCH OF THIS DONATION WAS FOR AN EXPRESS LECTIONARY PURPOSE.

AND SO, BECAUSE THE BILLBOARDS I'M HEARING YOU SAY THAT BECAUSE HE ASKED FOR BILLBOARDS AND BILLBOARDS WERE WHAT HAPPENED.

YEAH.

THAT'S THE DIRECT CONNECTION.

YES.

THAT, THAT, THAT I WOULD ADD AS DIRECT CONNECTION TO SAVE AUSTIN NOW AND WITH WINDFALL, BY AS AN EXPENDITURE.

YEAH.

OKAY.

JUST FOR A TIME CHECK.

JUST WANT EVERYONE TO KNOW THAT WE PASSED 20 MINUTES.

I'M GOING TO PUT ANOTHER 10 MINUTES ON THE CLOCK.

SURE.

WELL, I WAS GONNA, UH, I SAW COMMISSIONER DANBURG AND, UM, AND THEN I WAS GONNA ADD RECOMMENDER, DAN BROOKE'S QUESTION.

I WAS GONNA MAKE A FINAL CALL FOR QUESTIONS.

SO I'D GO TO COMMISSIONER DANBURG FOR A QUESTION, AND THEN I'LL DO AROUND TO SEE IF ANYONE ELSE HAS FINAL QUESTION.

GO AHEAD.

I APPRECIATE IT.

AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT AFTER MANY, MANY, MANY YEARS OF BEING INVOLVED IN THIS, I'M STILL NOT QUITE SURE WHAT I THINK OF IT.

I WOULD LIKE TO ASK BOTH THE COMPLAINANT AND THE RESPONDENT, WHAT THEY THINK ABOUT THE LEVEL OF COORDINATION.

WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO GO FIRST COMMISSIONER, SIR.

ALL RIGHT.

WELL, UM, I MEAN HE, MR. SWINDLER, UM, YOU KNOW, HAD MULTIPLE PHONE CALLS WITH THEM, WHICH HE HAD ADMITTED AND, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, JUST THE, THE IMPORTANT POINT IS THAT, THAT I JUST WANT TO GET BACK TO YOU IS THAT HE RAISED $30,000, WHICH WAS NOT ALL OF HIS, UM, AND HE SOLICITED FUNDS AND TO COORDINATE WITH SAVE AUSTIN NOW.

AND I MEAN, SO THAT'S, I WOULD, I WOULD SAY THAT THAT WAS A HIGH LEVEL, OF COURSE, UH, MS. UH, COMMISSIONER KLINGLER.

OKAY, SURE, SURE.

YEAH.

I WOULD SAY THERE IS VERY LITTLE TO NONE COORDINATION SINCE I WAS THE ONE COORDINATING IT.

THAT PROBABLY SHOULD BE THE ONE TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION.

UM, AS OPPOSED TO JOE'S SPECULATION ON THE SUBJECT, IT CAN BE, UH, THE ENTIRE GO FUND ME WAS VERY CLEARLY ME TRYING TO RAISE MONEY

[00:50:01]

TO, TO BUY THESE BILLBOARDS.

I'M I'M, AS I'VE STATED TWICE ON THIS CALL AND ON, AND BOTH OF THE OTHER, UH, PREVIOUS CALLS, I FOUND OUT THAT, HEY, THERE'S, THERE'S THESE RULES TO FOLLOW, AND YOU HAVE TO CREATE A PACK.

IF IT'S OVER 500 BUCKS, FOUND THAT OUT.

I WAS, IT WAS SUGGESTED TO ME TO CALL SAY, BOSTON ALLEN, GO THROUGH THEIR PACK.

YOU KNOW, LIKE, HEY, TRY TO FOLLOW THE RULES.

YOU KNOW, GO, GO DONATE THE MONEY TO THE PACK THAT IS LITERALLY SET UP TO HANDLE THIS SUBJECT PROPERTY THAT WE WERE RAISING MONEY TO ADVOCATE FOR.

SO, YOU KNOW, UH, I, I GUESS I, I AM CONFUSED AS TO WHY THERE'D BE SPECULATION OTHER THAN, YOU KNOW, WHEN I DECIDED, HEY, I CALLED THEM, DONATED THE MONEY THEY CONTRACTED FOR SOME BILLBOARDS, YOU KNOW, WE, WE THOUGHT WE WERE FOLLOWING ALL THE RULES.

I'M NOT QUITE SURE HOW COULD THERE COULD BE SPECULATION THAT THERE WAS MORE THAN A CALL BECAUSE I PREVIOUS STATED ON THIS PHONE CALL, BUT THAT'S, THAT WAS THE LEVEL OF COORDINATION.

AND I THINK THEY'VE ALSO NOW WITH IT, SAME THING, BUT THOSE WERE THE PARTIES INVOLVED, YOU KNOW, MY MYSELF AND SAY, BOSTON NOW, THANK YOU BOTH.

ALL RIGHT, COMMISSIONERS, I'M GOING TO DO, UH, IF ANYONE HAS A BURNING ADDITIONAL QUESTION, THEY WOULD LIKE TO ASK ONE OF THE PARTIES.

THE FLOOR IS OPEN NOW, UM, FOR A FINAL QUESTION, OKAY.

I'M NOT SEEING ANY TAKERS.

UM, OKAY.

THEN THE HEARING IS GOING TO BE CLOSED.

AND SO WE ARE GOING TO PROCEED WITH DELIBERATIONS.

SO AT THIS POINT, NO MORE ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS TO THE WITNESSES OR SORRY TO THE PARTIES.

UM, AND THE PARTIES, UH, ARE INSTRUCTED POLITELY NOT TO INTERJECT AS WE DO THESE DELIBERATIONS.

UM, SO THIS IS WHERE WE DISCUSS AMONGST OURSELVES COMMISSIONERS.

AND IT'S ALSO A TIME WHERE WE WOULD BE MAKING MOTIONS.

SO WITH THAT FLOOR IS OPEN FOR DISCUSSION OR MOTIONS.

OKAY.

I WILL JUMP IN IF THERE AREN'T ANY MEDIA TAKERS AND JUST BRIEFLY COMMENT, UM, THAT ARE JUST ONE IS DESCRIBED FOR THE EDIFICATION OF ARE THE PARTIES THAT HAVE GIVEN A LOT OF THEIR TIME TO THIS PROCESS.

UM, AND THAT DECIDED TO, YOU KNOW, SHOW UP HERE TODAY, UM, THAT WHAT WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW IS SIMPLY GETTING INFORMATION.

IF YOU FIND OUT WHETHER OR NOT A VIOLATION HAS OCCURRED, THERE'S NO PRESUMPTION OF GUILT ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

UM, I KNOW THAT IT'S, UH, IT CAN BE KIND OF A GRUELING PROCESS AND SOMETIMES A FRUSTRATING PROCESS, BUT I WANT TO AT LEAST SPEAK ON BEHALF OF THE COMMISSION.

I GOT PRETTY GOOD FAITH THAT NO ONE COMES IN WITH A PRECONCEIVED NOTION OR, UH, YOU KNOW, MOVE INTO A DESIRED OUTCOME BASED ON ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT THE EVIDENCE IS IN FRONT OF US.

UM, AND I JUST WANTED TO THANK THE PARTIES AGAIN TO THEIR PATIENTS.

I KNOW IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME AND THERE HAVE BEEN LONG HEARINGS.

UM, SO I SAW I SAT COMMISSIONER GREENBERG'S AND THEN I'LL GET TO COMMISSIONER STANTON.

SO I SAW YOUR HAND RIGHT AS I WAS JUMPING INTO.

GO AHEAD, COMMISSIONER GREENBERG.

THANK YOU.

UM, SO FOR ME, WHAT I SEE IS THE MONEY WAS COLLECTED SPECIFICALLY FOR THE PURPOSE OF PUTTING UP BILLBOARDS TO, UM, IN FAVOR OF PROPOSITION B AND EXPENDITURES WERE MADE TO PUT THOSE BILLBOARDS UP, UM, PASSING THE MONEY TO SAVE AUSTIN NOW DOES NOT REALLY IN MY MIND CHANGE THAT ESSENTIAL FACT.

AND WHAT WAS KIND OF SURPRISING TO ME TODAY WAS HEARING MR. SWINDLER REPEATEDLY USE THE WORD WE FIRST, HE SAID, WE MADE SURE THAT THE DISCLOSURES WERE ON THE BILLBOARD.

WE MADE THREE PURCHASES.

UM, TO ME THAT SOUNDS LIKE EXPENDITURES, WHETHER IT WAS PUT INTO THE MONEY, PUT INTO, UM, SAVE AUSTIN NOW.

SO SAVE AUSTIN NOW COULD TECHNICALLY MAKE THE PURCHASES.

IT'S STILL SEEMS LIKE THE RESPONDENT PLANNED.

IT MADE THE PURCHASES SAID $17,000.

THERE'S AN EXPRESS $17,000 PURCHASE FOR BILLBOARDS IN THE, UM, SAVE AUSTIN.

NOW DISCLOSURE, IT WAS ALL PLANNED AND THE DIFFERENCES IS REALLY JUST A TECHNICALITY

[00:55:01]

IN MY MIND.

AND, UM, THAT'S ALL I WANT TO SAY RIGHT NOW.

UH, SURE.

I'LL UM, I'LL, I'LL PASS.

I SAW COMMISSIONER STANTON 10, AND THEN COMMISSIONER 11.

WHAT I WANT TO JUST BRIEFLY SAY FOR THE SAKE OF COMMISSIONERS, UH, DELIBERATIONS.

UM, ONE THING TO BEAR IN MIND IS THAT A DIRECT CAMPAIGN EXPENDITURE IS ONE THAT IS MADE WITHOUT COORDINATION.

UM, AND THAT IS SPECIFICALLY WHAT'S BEING ALLEGED IN THE COMPLAINT.

UM, AND WITH THAT, I'LL TURN TO COMMISSIONER STANTON, AND THEN COMMISSION TO LOVE AND STUFF.

COMMISSIONER STANDING, GO AHEAD.

THANK YOU, SARAH.

I JUST WANTED TO REITERATE, UM, YOUR STATEMENT TO, UH, TO THE PARTIES INVOLVED HERE AND TO THANK THEM FOR THEIR TIME AND THAT EFFORT.

AND I ALSO WANTED TO, UM, SAY THAT FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, AND I THINK THAT, UH, I COULD PROBABLY SPEAK FOR OTHERS ON THE COMMISSION AS WELL, WHICH IS, UM, UH, MR. SWINDLER AND MR. CASINO, PLEASE DO NOT, UH, INTERPRET, UH, THIS, ANY DECISIONS AS A JUDGMENT OF YOUR CHARACTER.

THAT IS CERTAINLY NOT.

UM, IT, IT IS JUST FROM MY PERSPECTIVE WHEN YOU'RE JUST DECIDING WHETHER, UM, A VIOLATION OF A CODE HAS OCCURRED.

UM, THIS IS NOT A ON EITHER, UM, CHARACTER OF EITHER OF YOU.

SO PLEASE KEEP THAT IN MIND.

THANK YOU.

THAT'S ALL THAT I HAVE TO SAY RIGHT NOW.

OKAY.

UH, COMMISSIONER, LEVIN'S GO AHEAD.

YEAH.

AND COMMISSIONER GREENBERG.

I JUST WANT TO SEE IF I UNDERSTAND YOUR POSITION.

I, WHAT I'M HEARING FROM YOU IS THAT YOU'RE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE LEVEL OF COORDINATION BETWEEN MR. SWINGER AND SAY BOSTON.

NOW, IF I'M HEARING THAT WRONG, OBVIOUSLY CORRECT ME.

UM, AND THAT, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S COOL WITH THAT, I'M SORRY.

ARE YOU ASKING ME A QUESTION? YEAH.

AS PART OF DELIBERATION TO SEE IF I UNDERSTAND YOUR IT'S, UM, NOT SO MUCH THE COORDINATION AS THIS SPECIFICALLY, UM, BASIC BASICALLY JUST PASSING THE MONEY THROUGH TO DO WHAT HE ALWAYS INTENDED TO DO.

IT'S TO PROVIDE THE DISCLOSURES NEEDED SPECIFICALLY, MR. COOPER, MR. SPANGLER, PLEASE.

UH, UH, AS I INSTRUCTED YOU EARLIER, PLEASE DON'T INTERJECT, UM, COMMISSIONERS DELIBERATION AT THIS POINT.

UM, AND, UH, THANK YOU.

UH, SO COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, IF YOU HAD A FURTHER ANSWER OR COMMISSIONED 11, IF YOU HAVE FURTHER COMMENT, GO AHEAD.

UM, I WANT TO, IF YOU'RE FINISHED WITH THAT COMMISSIONER GREENBERG, I HAD KIND OF A FOLLOW-UP QUESTION, WHICH IS, IS THAT LEVEL OF COORDINATION OR, OR EVEN IF IT'S DIRECTLY, MR. SWINGER SAYS, SAVE AUSTIN.

NOW HERE'S X DOLLARS.

I WANT YOU TO SPEND IT ON BILLBOARDS AND SAVE AUSTIN.

NOW IT TURNS AROUND AND SPENDS IT ON BILLBOARDS.

IS THAT PROHIBITED BY TWO DASH TWO DASH 32? THAT'S NOT MY POINT.

MY POINT IS HE JUST DID WHAT HE ALWAYS PLANNED TO DO.

IS THAT A VIOLATION? SO I I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IF YOU'RE MAKING THE CONTENTION THAT IN DOING SO, MR. SWINGER VIOLATED A PART OF THE FAN FINANCE CODE OR THAT IT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE NOT, UH, PARTICULARLY PLEASED ABOUT, WHICH IS FAIR ENOUGH.

I'M NOT CRITICIZING THAT.

I'M JUST WANTING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE.

I DO BELIEVE HE VIOLATED PART OF THE FINANCE CODE.

I BELIEVE THAT HE COLLECTED MONEY FOR THE PURPOSE OF, YOU KNOW, FOR A BALLOT MEASURE.

AND THAT WAS MORE THAN $500.

THERE WAS NO CAMPAIGN TREASURER APPOINTED.

THERE WAS NO PAC PAPERWORK SET UP.

THERE WERE NO CAMPAIGN FINANCE REPORTS.

SO IF YOU'RE ASKING ME, DO I THINK HE VIOLATED CAMPAIGN FINANCE LAW? THE ANSWER IN MY MIND IS YES.

OKAY.

AND THAT, I GUESS TO ME, THAT'S FAIR ENOUGH, PERHAPS.

SO, BUT IT'S NOT WHAT THE ALLEGATION IS.

YEAH.

THAT THAT'S DUE AND I THINK ARE, ARE AT LEAST ON THAT POINT ON THE SAME PAGE THAT IF IT'S A VIOLATION, IT'S NOT A VIOLATION TO 2 32.

THAT'S ALL I HAVE FOR NOW.

IT WAS JUST A CONTRIBUTION.

NOT AN EXPENDITURE.

YEAH.

SURE.

OKAY.

UH, COMMISSIONERS, ANY OTHER, UH, FLOORS OPENS THOUGH? UM, I'M JUST LOOKING FOR HANDS.

UM, SEE COMMISSIONER DANBURG I I'M, I THINK I'M IN LINE WITH COMMISSIONER LEVIN'S AND COMMISSIONER GREENBERG THAT MR. SWING BLUR

[01:00:03]

DID AS BEST AS HE NOTED NEW TO DO.

AND THAT, UH, SITE AUSTIN NOW DID COORDINATE WITH HIM, BUT